Taylor trial transcript - 28 October 2009 - Special Court for ...

Case No. SCSL-2003-01-T

THE PROSECUTOR OFTHE SPECIAL COURTV.CHARLES GHANKAY TAYLOR

WEDNESDAY, 28 OCTOBER 20099.30 A.M. TRIAL

TRIAL CHAMBER II

Before the Judges: Justice Richard Lussick, PresidingJustice Teresa DohertyJustice Julia SebutindeJustice El Hadji Malick Sow, Alternate

For Chambers: Ms Erica Bussey

For the Registry: Ms Rachel IruraMr Benedict Williams

For the Prosecution: Ms Brenda J HollisMr Christopher Santora Ms Maja Dimitrova

For the accused Charles Ghankay Taylor:

Mr Courtenay Griffiths QCMr Morris AnyahMr Silas Chekera

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CHARLES TAYLOR

28 OCTOBER 2009 OPEN SESSION

SCSL - TRIAL CHAMBER II

Page 30492

Wednesday, 28 October 2009

[Open session]

[The accused present]

[Upon commencing at 9.30 a.m.]

PRESIDING JUDGE: Good morning. We'll take appearances,

please.

MS HOLLIS: Good morning, Mr President, your Honours,

opposing counsel. This morning for the Prosecution, Brenda J

Hollis, Christopher Santora and with us our case manager Maja

Dimitrova.

PRESIDING JUDGE: Thank you.

MR GRIFFITHS: Good morning, Mr President, your Honours,

counsel opposite. For the Defence today, myself, Courtenay

Griffiths. With me, Mr Morris Anyah, Mr Silas Chekera of

counsel.

PRESIDING JUDGE: Thanks, Mr Griffiths. Mr Taylor, you are

still bound by your oath. Please go ahead, Mr Griffiths.

MR GRIFFITHS: May it please your Honour.

DANKPANNAH DR CHARLES GHANKAY TAYLOR:

[On former affirmation]

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR GRIFFITHS: [Continued]

Q. Mr Taylor, yesterday afternoon when we adjourned we were

looking at the testimony of one Foday Lansana, a radio operator.

You recall that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And the last topic we dealt with was his return to Sierra

Leone from Vahun to install a radio there, he said, on the

instruction of the one Galakpalah. Do you recall that?

A. Yes, I do.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



0493

Q. And that he took a radio which he then installed at

Foday Sankoh's address in Pendembu, yes?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, Mr Taylor, I need to ask you some further questions

about this for this reason: You've told us that after May/June

of 1992 you severed all links with Foday Sankoh. Is that right?

A. That is correct.

Q. Now, bearing that fact in mind, I want you to listen

carefully, please, to the following testimony from this witness.

And we pick up where we left off yesterday afternoon. Page 4380,

line 3:

"Q. Who went with you to" --

PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes, Ms Hollis.

MS HOLLIS: Excuse me. What date is that?

MR GRIFFITHS: That is for 20 February 2008:

Q. Line 2 - well, let me start at the top:

"A. I moved immediately with an escort to go to Pendembu.

Q. Who went with you to Pendembu?

A. Mr Sankoh sent some securities from the RUF side to

receive me on the borderline."

Jump to line 17:

"Q. You say promotion to overall signal commander. Who

gave you the promotion?

A. I received this promotion based by recommendation made

by Mr Sankoh for me to go and work with him and he did say

that I was a peaceful person and that I was not part of the

dispute that took place between his men and the others, so

he said I should go back to Sierra Leone and work with

him."

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30494

Over the page to page 4381, please, line 10:

"Q. For which group were you working as the overall signal

commander?

A. This time round for RUF.

Q. You said you met some of Foday Sankoh's securities at

the border. What happened after that?

A. They received me and we proceeded directly to Pendembu.

I met with Mr Sankoh. He gave me some men for them to help

me to install the radio on his ground that was referred to

as Executive Mansion Ground in Pendembu and that was where

he resided at that particular time. The installation took

place. I tested the communication. I confirmed it with

Treetop, Butterfly and he requested" - that being Sankoh -

"that he wanted to talk to Mr Charles Ghankay Taylor. I

made all the necessary arrangements with the operators and

at that particular time Mr Charles Ghankay Taylor spoke

with Mr Sankoh and he asked a few questions of him with

regards the situation in Sierra Leone after the NPFL were

evacuated back to Liberia."

Do you follow?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. So what this witness is clearly saying, Mr Taylor is, one,

not only did your of your employees, Galakpalah, facilitate the

move of this radio operator back to Pendembu to work for the RUF,

but thereafter you remained in contact with Mr Sankoh. Do you

get it? What do you say to that?

A. That is not true. But even if you - and the reason why

it's not true, if you look at this witness's statement as is

given here, for this man to go back two weeks after I withdraw

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30495

people to install a radio and it is only at that time that

Foday Sankoh is able to contact me, suggests that Foday Sankoh

has no radio at all, because it did not take him to return in May

1992 to make a call. So the suggestion that there is no radio

that he is already suggested in statements you read yesterday is

total nonsense, because this will mean that Foday Sankoh is

operating in Sierra Leone for close to one year without any

communication. Now - I mean, you know, there's got to be some

logic put into these people's statements.

He returns to Sierra Leone before Foday Sankoh calls me,

okay, to - for me to ask him what's going on in Sierra Leone.

But mind you, we've been cooperating for some nine months and

it's only the conflict that brings the withdrawal, so there must

be a way that Foday Sankoh - if there is no human called Foday

Lansana, none whatsoever, we must assume that Foday Sankoh has a

means to contact me because he's been contacting me. Okay.

There's been contacts over the radio between August 1991 up to

the withdrawal. So for this witness to suggest that it only

takes him to return with one radio before there can be contact, I

mean, one can see that it is totally, totally impossible and

incredible, as he explains it. It is not true.

My suggestion is that, normally, I didn't speak to

Foday Sankoh after that particular time. Look, two weeks after I

withdraw my men, if Foday Sankoh - if I had chosen to speak to

Foday Sankoh because maybe he was trying to make mends to what

had happened, I would tell this Court, "I spoke to him two weeks,

three weeks, a month after," and I still say, "No, I want nothing

to do with you." Why would I lie and say, "Oh, I never talked to

him after May 1992"? Total nonsense.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30496

My suggestion is that this boy being - this man being a

Sierra Leonean at heart, as I mentioned yesterday, stole this

radio, probably, and went back and took it on to Foday Sankoh.

But this man cannot tell this Court that up until the time he

returned two weeks after the May 1992 incident there was no radio

in Sierra Leone. He says that that was the only radio he had to

take back. What is that? Impossible. While others are claiming

that I'm speaking to them and sending arms and ammunition as in

the case of Isaac Mongor. I mean, it just doesn't make sense and

it's totally - it's totally false because I do not speak to

Sankoh. If I had spoken to Sankoh two weeks after, I would have

said, "I spoke to Sankoh."

But for me, Charles Ghankay Taylor, to get on a radio?

Nonsense. Total nonsense. Anyone that have come to this Court

and said they heard my voice on the radio is a liar. That is not

possible.

Q. Well, Mr Taylor, let's continue in the same vein so you get

the full import of what this witness is saying on this topic. We

move then to page 4383 commencing with an answer at line 5:

"A. I arrived in Pendembu and Mr Sankoh received me and he

gave me some gallant men who assisted me to erect the

antenna to install the radio communication and I tested it

with the radio communication in Gbarnga, Butterfly, Treetop

and it was confirmed."

Now, you recognise both of those names, Butterfly and

Treetop, don't you?

A. Yes. But don't forget, this man is trained by the NPFL.

He knows this. So, these names, by spewing them out to this

Court, really, it shouldn't make a difference. He is trained by

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30497

the NPFL. This man in 1990 states that he is trained by the

NPFL, he goes through special training, he runs away, he flees,

goes back to Sierra Leone. First he goes to Ganta to see his

people. So this man knows the system. So he can call almost all

the names, yes.

Q. But he continues:

"A. ... He also asked me that I make arrangements to

enable him to speak with Mr Charles Taylor and I did.

Q. Who asked you that, to make the arrangements to speak

to Mr Charles Taylor?

A. Mr Sankoh at that particular time.

Q. You said you made this arrangement?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you do that?

A. After I had installed the radio I tuned to the

frequency and I called Butterfly and Butterfly answered,

and I arranged - made arrangement that Mr Sankoh wanted to

talk to Mr Taylor. Then he told me to hold on until he

makes Mr Taylor available. Then he spoke with Mr Sankoh.

Q. Were you present when this occurred?

A. Yes."

He goes on to mention that your code name was Ebony and

that Mr Sankoh's code name was Toyota. And moving to page 4385,

he continues like this, line 1:

"Q. Describe what you observed in terms of this

conversation between Mr Sankoh and Mr Taylor at this time

in Pendembu, after you installed the radio set.

A. After the installation of the radio station, Mr Taylor

was then available on the radio and Mr Sankoh also was now

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30498

available in my own station, and he called him and said,

'Big brother, this is Toyota speaking', and he answered."

Jump to line 22:

Q. I just want you to describe what you observed in terms

of the conversation between Mr Sankoh and Mr Taylor at this

time in Pendembu after you installed and tested the radio

set.

A. Mr Sankoh called Butterfly by saying, 'Toyota for

Butterfly' and Mr Taylor answered. He said, 'Big brother,

this is Toyota speaking.' And Mr Taylor answered, he said

'I am all right.' He said, 'How is the situation after the

departure of the NPFL'" - note that - "'troops from Sierra

Leone?' And he said, Mr Sankoh said, 'Things are a little

okay. The men are all right and the relationship between

the civilians and the fighting men is okay. The only thing

that we are short of is that the fighting men took away all

the materials, the arms and ammunition with them and for

now I need your assistance in light of these

materials.'

Q. Was there anything else said?

A. Yes, Mr Taylor ordered Mr Sankoh to travel to Gbarnga

for them to establish a better understanding.

Q. When you say ordered, what do you mean?

A. He told him that he was to report to him for a 'better

understanding of what you are trying to discuss with me'

and then he said goodbye to him."

Then the witness goes on to say that he remained in

Pendembu for the rest of '92 and '93 and, "I was instructed by

Mr Sankoh for me to start training operators in Pendembu."

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30499

He is quite clear, Mr Taylor. He is suggesting that the

relationship continued after Top Final and the order sent via

Dopoe Menkarzon to withdraw NPFL troops. There was still

contact. What do you say?

A. Well, look, the only way these - I say no. I say totally

no. But to understand this kind of disinformation here you have

to look at other statements to really understand it. I guess

there is a crucial question here that must be asked. First we

have an assumption. Nya Lansana becomes the radio operator for

Foday Sankoh and he is supposed to become the radio operator for

Foday Sankoh in May of 1992 - excuse me, not May. June, because

he said two weeks later. He now becomes the radio operator for

Foday Sankoh following our withdrawal of our men.

But the crucial question is who is Foday Sankoh's radio

operator between March of 1991 up until May of 1992? Does he

have any radio operator? Does he have any radio? Because if we

conclude that Foday Sankoh could not have operated in Sierra

Leone for a year without a radio operator, Nya Lansana's own lie

here that suggests that he becomes really the first real radio

operator to make contact - because it does not take Nya Lansana

to contact to call to Gbarnga if a call has to be made even

before the two weeks that he speaks about. I'm talking pure -

you know, it doesn't take him. So why does Foday Sankoh have to

wait for two weeks if he is calling me? Why does he have to wait

for two weeks? He is suggesting here that Foday Sankoh, one, did

not have a radio or, two, did not have a radio operator that knew

how to contact me. But what was Nya Lansana doing prior to May

of 1992? Was he working with Foday Sankoh? Was he his operator?

These boys - and as he testifies here and comes

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30500

specifically with the NPFL after this I can see where it is

going. Somebody had to tell him to tie in specifically. What is

the relevance of contact with Foday Sankoh before May 1992 or at

the end of 1993? What is the real relevance as far as this is

concerned, that somebody would have to sit here - look, your

Honours, if Foday Sankoh had called me three, four months after I

pulled my troops to talk to me I would say he called but I still

told him no. This young man here suggests things that are

totally impossible that the RUF did not have communication, this

is what he suggests, and that Foday Sankoh had virtually no means

of getting to me until he took one radio back in May after they

had been in operation for a long time and had been in full

cooperation with the NPFL at the particular time.

And the way he even suggests it, he goes to the border and

Foday Sankoh sent people for him. The only thing I can come

again and say is that this boy ran away, he went right back to

Sierra Leone as most of them had gone back to go because they

were more Sierra Leoneans than Liberians. That's all I can put

it to.

But the suggestion that I was in contact with Foday Sankoh

and that he made such arrangements and that I spoke to

Foday Sankoh on the radio is a lie. I never spoke to anyone on

the radio. If I needed Foday Sankoh during the time of our

cooperation he came to Liberia. Now what is more incriminating?

Foday Sankoh coming to Liberia that I tell you he came there

during that period and someone saying that I have to deny that,

oh, there was a radio call. Total nonsense. He is a liar.

Q. Well, Mr Taylor, you note that in the passage I read out to

you mention was made of you ordering - note, ordering - Sankoh to

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30501

go to Gbarnga to provide more details. Did you note that?

A. Yes, I noted that. I didn't comment on it.

Q. Well, this witness continues on that topic in this way,

page 4387, commencing with an answer at line 5:

"After the training and within a period of one month there

were operators and radio communication was then available

in order to carry out an effective operation, so we had a

radio station at Pendembu, Kailahun, Koindu, Kuiva,

Gandorhun and up to Kono.

Q. How did these radio installations take place?

A. Mr Sankoh departed Sierra Leone after the communication

between himself and Mr Taylor and he travelled to Gbarnga,

and he came back with some operators who were also RUF but

had been pushed back from Pujehun and then they went

through Liberia and they were based in Gbarnga and they

came back to Sierra Leone.

Q. Who were these radio operators that Sankoh came back

with? Do you know them?

A. Yes, some I think Alfred Brown, King Perry Kamara,

Samuel Lamboi, Osman Tolo, Sahr James, Alfred Malloh."

Now, Mr Taylor, let's take this in stages so that we get

the full understanding of what the witness is saying before I ask

for your comment. Now you will recall from the evidence there

was a two-pronged initial invasion of Sierra Leone: one through

Kailahun and one through Pujehun, yes?

A. Uh-huh.

Q. You recall that?

A. Uh-huh.

PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr Taylor, you'll have to say something

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30502

that can be recorded.

THE WITNESS: Okay. Okay.

MR GRIFFITHS:

Q. Do you recall that, Mr Taylor?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Now, whereas we are told the Kailahun axis, as various

witnesses refer to it, met with some success, the Pujehun route

was repelled at some stage and a number had to return into

Liberia and you recall we looked at testimony about you meeting

with that group with Foday Sankoh, that group which had retreated

from Pujehun. Do you remember that?

A. Yes.

Q. And that being wrapped up with the creation of Black

Kadaffa, do you recall that testimony?

A. Yes.

Q. And it being thereafter said that those individuals then

travelled through Liberia to join up with their RUF comrades in

Kailahun. Do you remember that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And you provided, it is alleged, trucks to enable that to

occur. You recall?

A. Yes.

Q. So bear that fact in mind. So what the witness is saying

against that background is that after Top Final when you give the

order for the NPFL to withdraw from Sierra Leone, Sankoh travels

to Liberia and he's in Liberia and able to link up with those

members of the RUF who had retreated from Pujehun. Do you

follow? And that he then returns with some of them who he names

specific radio operators. Do you see? That's what's being

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30503

suggested. That's the scenario I want you to comment on.

A. But - well, if - what I understand here, he's speaking

about May of 1992 after he returns to Sierra Leone.

Q. Well, he's speaking about sometime after May of 1992.

A. May of 1992. The other incident of the mix-up occurs at

the beginning of the operation in March of 1991, okay. So what I

see him trying to say here is that some people are still in

Liberia and Foday Sankoh goes back after he returns in May 1992

and he brings in these radio operators. But interestingly -

interestingly, counsel - just above the page there he mentions

radio installations in certain areas.

Q. Yes?

A. About four or five. Where are those radios coming from?

Because we see here he is talking about radio operators going but

- so there are radios in those areas. I'm looking for I think

it's Kuiva or some other areas, a few towns.

Q. Line 8?

A. Yes. So what is this witness really saying? Remember this

witness said that he had to be sent back with one radio to

Foday Sankoh before contact could be made. But there are radios

- there's supposed to be stations in other places, okay. So who

is operating these things? And mind you, Alfred Brown - Alfred

Brown is a vanguard, according to testimony before this Court,

okay. So if Alfred Brown is a vanguard, he is older - and a

radio operator, he is older in the RUF organisation than even

this Foday Lansana, okay. So Alfred Brown is a vanguard based on

testimony before this Court, and Alfred Brown trained some of

these people including the James Sahr and the King Perry.

Look, how can there be radio stations at these areas in

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30504

Sierra Leone that Foday Sankoh does not contact me? He has to

return with one radio before a contact is made? Your Honours,

it's a lie. It's impossible, as he is trying to link it. He

didn't put this lie together properly. Either there are radios

in Sierra Leone or he takes the first one there. That's the

point I made before. Only to get to find out that there are

other stations, okay, where he is saying that there are radios

but Sankoh had to come back to Liberia to carry these operators,

and we know this Alfred Brown is mentioned as a vanguard. So who

comes first, he or Alfred Brown? Alfred Brown is a vanguard and

radio operator. So he just did not make up this lie properly.

He cannot associate this May 1992 situation.

I tell you, your Honours, if Foday Sankoh had dared put his

foot in Liberia after Top Final, I don't think he would have

survived. There were a lot of people that got killed on both

sides in that Top Final operation, and for Foday Sankoh to have

come up into Liberia, that's totally false. But mind you, there

are so many, many, many, many, many Prosecution witnesses that

have come before this Court that have dealt with this very issue

after Top Final. I recall, and I stand corrected, no incident

where any of these witnesses reflect that Foday Sankoh returned

to Liberia after Top Final. He's the only one. I mean - so I

stand corrected on that, but I do not recall that because it did

not happen. Foday Sankoh never put his foot back in Liberia

following his departure in I would say late May, early June 1992.

Never did. Never.

Q. Who is Alfred Brown, Mr Taylor?

A. Alfred Brown is a vanguard that is mentioned throughout the

testimony and the brother of this Fatou Brown that, based on

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30505

evidence in this Court, was supposed to be the fiance or

girlfriend of Foday Sankoh at the time he was putting this

operation together sneaking around in the area. Fatou Brown was

the woman with him. And the lady whose name - who is a protected

witness, I cannot mention here, who claimed to have been also

with Fatou Brown in testimony before this Court, this Alfred

Brown is the brother of that Fatou Brown that was the wife or

fiance of Foday Sankoh at the time of this operation.

Q. The other names mentioned at lines 18 and 19, Mr Taylor, do

you recognise any of them?

A. Lines --

Q. On page 4387.

A. Yes, here in this Court we saw King Perry.

Q. At the time, back in 1992, how many of these names meant

anything to you?

A. None whatsoever. None whatsoever.

Q. The witness continues at page 4388 in this way, line 5:

"A. During 1992 there was a ceasefire in the first place.

In the middle of the ceasefire the Guinean contingent

attacked our position in Bayama. The last quantity of arms

and ammunition - a large quantity of arms and ammunition

was captured in Bayama village. This report was sent to

Mr Charles Taylor by Mr Foday Sankoh. Based on this

attack, which was at the end of the ceasefire between the

RUF and the Government of Sierra Leone, under the

leadership of President Joseph Saidu Momoh, the RUF were

equipped with communication sets and operators that were

trained began to use those communication sets. We had a

radio station in Kailahun, Bunumbu, Gandorhun, Koidu,

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30506

Kuiva."

Let's complete the sequence. Let us go then to page 4390

commencing at line 26 with this question:

"Q. Now, you described an occasion where you facilitated a

communication for Foday Sankoh to Charles Taylor when you

arrived in Pendembu.

A. Yes. I said there was a building in Pendembu which was

called Executive Mansion and it was the residence of

Mr Sankoh."

Bottom of the page, line 29:

"Q. Now, you earlier, as I mentioned, discussed the

communication between Sankoh and Taylor at Pendembu. Was

this the only time you described - witnessed such a

communication?

A. Yes."

Over the page to page 4393, line 8:

"A. ... When the Guinean and the Nigerian contingents

attacked the positions of the RUF at Bayama a large

quantity of arms and ammunition were captured from them and

this report was sent to Gbarnga to Mr Taylor. Mr Sankoh

said because the weapons that were captured were all

artillery and it could not use those artilleries in this

country simply because he has not got ammunition for those

weapons. Mr Taylor requested him to send all the artillery

weapons to Gbarnga.

Q. You said a report was sent to Charles Taylor. Describe

exactly what you mean.

A. Mr Sankoh contacted Mr Taylor in a radio conversation

and he said, 'Big brother, these are the materials that

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30507

have been captured.' He named very few of them and

Mr Charles Taylor, in his response, told him that he should

report with those materials to Gbarnga.

Q. Were you present for this report being sent?

A. Yes, I was the operator."

Now, taking things in stages, Mr Taylor, did you receive

such a gift from Mr Sankoh?

A. Well, the fact of the matter is, to answer your question, I

did receive an artillery piece from Sankoh, but in answering yes

to that question, this did not happen after May 1992. How and

where would this artillery have passed? Where? And don't let's

forget, Nya does not become, from evidence - and I can strongly

suggest this - operator for Foday Sankoh until after he retreats

two weeks after Top Final. So whatever he is talking about here,

his knowledge now of my dealing with Sankoh, he must - his

knowledge must start from about June 1992, if I'm write in my

assumption here, because that's when he goes back and now he

becomes the operator.

But, your Honours, by June - by August 1992, ULIMO has

completed the control of Lofa. By the time we withdraw our

people in May, the battle is so intense. No human being in their

right mind would be moving any equipment or ammunition or arms

out of any place. So at the time that this equipment is brought

into Liberia is before - before we separate from the RUF. And,

in fact, we have exhibited the weapon here before this Court.

It's a 155 millimetre gun that was used as an exhibit that we

showed to this Court. This is not a little piece of thing. This

is a weapon that can only be moved by being pulled by a truck.

It is a long-barreled, heavy, several ton weapon, and nobody -

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30508

the road between the border into Liberia by this time, nobody

will put a vehicle on that road.

So, again, when these boys - these men are trying to put

these lies together, they get it wrong. There is no such thing

after this particular time. No. So did I receive artillery from

the RUF during that period? Yes. But not after we severed

relationship. That road was too - nobody would even dare - only

military people walked on that road and supplies were not carried

on that road.

Q. But he continues, page 4394, line 7:

"Q. After the ceasefire was broken, can you describe

generally what was the state of communication at this time

in Pendembu between Mr Sankoh and Mr Taylor?

A. Mr Sankoh - Mr Sankoh briefly gave outlines of arms and

ammunition that were captured during the attack on Bayama.

He spoke about rocket-propelled grenade launcher. He

talked about a huge quantity of anti-tank that was

captured, that is one-barreled AA. He talked about RPG,

BZT twin-barrel and he said that he had no ammunition for

these weapons and he has deemed it necessary not to use

them, but that he was requesting for light weapons like

AK-47s and G3 ammos.

Q. Do you know, if any, was there any response from

Mr Taylor during this communication?

A. Yes, Mr Taylor requested Mr Taylor to go himself to

Gbarnga with the materials that he is reporting about.

They would sort everything out upon his arrival."

Line 28:

"Q. What was Mr Taylor's response exactly to Mr Sankoh?

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30509

A. That he should go.

Q. Who is he?

A. He said Mr Sankoh should go to Gbarnga with those

materials that he had said were not necessary for him to

use in his operation in order to exchange them.

Q. After this communication --

A. Yes.

Q. -- did anything happen?

A. Yes, Mr Sankoh left Pendembu for Gbarnga. Upon his

return Mr Mohamed Tarawalli, Sam Bockarie, Issa Sesay, and

Morris Kallon were instructed to go to Koidu, a

diamond-rich area in Sierra Leone, for a fresh operation,

or attack on the government troops. The operation went

smoothly and at the end of 1992 they were chased out of

Koidu on to Pendembu.

Q. Before you proceed, you said that when Sankoh was

discussing this issue with Mr Taylor he was requesting for

light weapons like AK-47s and G3 ammos. And then after

this conversation he proceeded to Gbarnga. Do you know if

anything happened with relation to this request?

A. Yes, Mr Sankoh went to Gbarnga and he returned with

some quantity of arms and ammunition before Mohamed

Tarawalli, Issa Sesay, Sam Bockarie, Morris Kallon, could

proceed for the Kono operation.

Q. When you say he returned from Gbarnga with some

quantity of arms and ammunition, how do you know that?

A. He travelled to Gbarnga and he came back to Sierra

Leone.

Q. How do you know he returned with ammunition - a

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30510

quantity of arms and ammunition?

A. When he returned he went to the G4 ground or the area

where arms and ammunition were kept and I was on the scene

and I saw it at that time before the troops could leave for

Kono.

Q. Was this while you were in Pendembu?

A. Yes, yes.

Q. When you say G4 area, what are you referring to?

A. It's where arms and ammunition are kept for

safekeeping."

Now, Mr Taylor, putting that together, what is being said

by the witness is this: There's that initial visit to Gbarnga by

Foday Sankoh after the initial installation of the radio in

Pendembu. Do you follow?

A. Yes.

Q. He then returns with those radio operators including Alfred

Brown. You follow?

A. Yes.

Q. He now makes a second trip after the capture of this

artillery and other heavy weapons and in effect he exchanges

them, those heavy weapons, with you in return for lighter

weapons, AK-47s and G3 ammos, and it's that material provided by

you which thereafter enables an attack on Kono. Do you get it?

A. Yes.

Q. What do you say about that?

A. Well, I can tell you there is no contact after this time in

May/June 1992 so this witness is totally off. But there is

sufficient evidence before this Court to show that throughout the

period that I have accepted that I dealt with the RUF there was

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30511

always a problem with ammunition. It was always a problem with

the material that they are getting. Foday Sankoh demonstrated

his frustration with that. There was no quid pro quo. The heavy

155 millimetre cannon gun that was given before this break-up was

given - there was no quid pro quo attached to the giving of that

weapon. This whole nonsense about radio operators for the first

time just going back to Sierra Leone after May 1992 is all

hogwash. That's all it is. Trying to piece things together.

I have given the picture here and that's the story and if

you look at most of the other even Prosecution witnesses that

have testified here again they do not deal with any testimony

here that reflects this witness's recollection that there is

relationship between Foday Sankoh and Charles Taylor and their

movement of material, arms and ammunition, after the Top 20, Top

40, Top Final thing. So this witness's own recollection is

totally false. His recollection is wrong, especially as he deals

with dates and times it's totally wrong.

Q. Let me ask you specifically, Mr Taylor, so that we're all

clear about the position: You accept that you did receive a

piece of heavy weaponry from Foday Sankoh, yes?

A. Oh, yes. Yes.

Q. Did you give him anything in return?

A. No. He brought the weapon. I had always been giving

Foday Sankoh small amounts of arms and - I mean of ammunition.

So like I'm saying, there was no quid pro quo. We were not doing

a business to say there was a quid pro quo, but I had been giving

Foday Sankoh some material throughout the time that we were

cooperating on the border. So there was not a quid pro quo.

Q. So you're saying there wasn't any kind of deal between the

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30512

two of you in those terms?

A. No, no, no. He brought the weapon, I had been giving him

things. Whenever Foday Sankoh had problems I would give him what

I had. My security people were in there. I kept them busy

giving them supplies. But Foday Sankoh didn't come, "I'm

bringing you a weapon, please exchange it with this." Whether he

brought a gun or not, I was going to give him some ammunition to

protect that border to fight ULIMO so it did not take a deal.

There was no deal. If he had brought nothing but his hands

swinging and I had material to protect that border I would have

given it to him as I did on many occasions. So I wouldn't

mislead this Court about that. Yes, I - so it was not like we

were running some little game where, "Okay, you give me

something, I give you something back." No.

JUDGE SEBUTINDE: Mr Griffiths, if I might seek

clarification. Why was it necessary to return this artillery

piece to you, Mr Taylor?

THE WITNESS: Well, where they were, he really didn't need

it. This artillery piece, your Honour, is a piece that fires

155. We're talking about - and I could stand corrected on this -

maybe 18 to 21 kilometres. It's a long-range cannon. They were

in the bush and he felt that it was not safe and we were really

fighting mostly in the city area and so we needed it more than

they needed it.

MR GRIFFITHS:

Q. Tell me, Mr Taylor, as far as you were aware did the RUF

have the capabilities in terms of ammunition or training or

expertise to operate weapons of that kind? Did you know?

A. I would think so, yes, because they had several - from what

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30513

Sankoh said, they had several former members of the Sierra

Leonean armed forces working with them too so I would think they

did, yes.

Q. Let's move on, please, because in addition to describing

those two trips made by Sankoh to Gbarnga after the period

May/June which we know to be the timing of Top Final, the

witness, a radio operator, goes on to say this at page 4439, line

11:

"We used to have what we called prearrangement. Like what

I've just discussed with you in the past. Whenever Mr Sankoh

wanted to communicate to Mr Charles Taylor you have to make the

prearrangements and such communication can never be encoded.

They will speak to each other and make sure that the frequency on

which they were communicating was free from all other stations

except the two."

Page 4441, line 19:

"Q. Now you said commanders including you said when

Foday Sankoh wanted to communicate with Charles Taylor

there would be a prearranged frequency. What do you mean

by this?

A. For example, as I just said, the national frequency in

case you wanted to communicate to Mr Sankoh, you first come

to the national frequency and make a net call or call the

code name of Mr Sankoh's radio station. The operator would

answer and you would tell the operator to switch to so and

so frequency for arrangement and you people will have to go

there and make the arrangements for another frequency that

would be appropriate for that particular communication."

So in addition to visits by Sankoh, there were these

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30514

pre-arranged radio conversations going on, according to this

witness. What do you say?

A. That's not true. You know, I wonder if the question is

posed in trying to understand this witness's testimony, what is

Nya Lansana doing before this time? We haven't - because Nya

Lansana is featuring his dramatic return two weeks after Top

Final. This is where Nya Lansana - what is he doing before this

time?

And maybe another important question will be since he is a

trained radio operator, who is he operating as operator for?

Because this boy - we'll be running in circles with this liar and

we will not find it. Who is Nya Lansana working for prior to May

1992? Who is he working for? Because we don't trace Nya

Lansana. We know that he is trained, from his testimony, and we

know that he says he goes to Ganta to visit his people. He goes

into Sierra Leone and he is captured. He is brought into Vahun

and he goes back. But what we do not know is what is Nya Lansana

doing before this two weeks return to Sierra Leone? What is he

doing? Obviously Nya Lansana is lying here with his activities.

So is Nya Lansana suggesting to this Court, as he did, that

prior to his involvement as a radio operator for Foday Sankoh

there was no means of communicating with Foday Sankoh? I mean,

what is he suggesting to this Court? What is he suggesting to

this Court? That the real communication with Foday Sankoh starts

two weeks after he goes and installs a radio in Pendembu? I

mean, you know, if we look at it logically what is he doing? Who

does he work for? Is he operating a radio prior to his gallant

two weeks return? Who is he working for? This boy doesn't know

what he is talking about.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30515

And I'm asking these rhetorical questions because it's at

the heart of his testimony. Here is a man that for the first

time is saying that he really becomes operational two weeks after

he goes back with a radio on this assignment. Prior to that he

has no assignment in Sierra Leone. At least I haven't seen it

yet in his testimony. His first assignment in Sierra Leone comes

two weeks after Top Final when Galakpalah sends him back. What

is he doing in Sierra Leonean before then? Is he operating a

radio? Is he operating a radio in Liberia? I mean, this - look,

he's just blowing smoke all over this place and you are talking

nonsense, okay. If you're a radio operator giving information

there is prearranged things and this, well, look, if you're a

radio operator in Liberia even calling from one station to

another you know it's prearranged, but nobody attracts Nya

Lansana here until after May 1992 and all of a sudden he is

centre stage, the only radio operator for Sankoh and he is doing

all this work. It is not true, your Honours. This man cannot be

right about what he is saying here.

Now, I had relationship with the RUF. Of course I did. I

said to this Court that Foday Sankoh came. I gave Foday Sankoh a

house in Gbarnga. Where is this radio operator Nya Lansana

throughout this whole period between August '91 and '92 when

Foday Sankoh is given a guesthouse is Gbarnga? Where is this

man? Look, there is relationship between us. You understand me?

But after Top Final when this man is supposed to be sent on this

special assignment and springs up where he is not accounted for

anywhere in Sierra Leone doing any radio work at that particular

time, all of a sudden he shows up is total nonsense. It is not

true. There is absolutely no contact. If there were contact I

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30516

would say so, because between May and June or July of course.

But there was none.

So unless we put these little logical pieces together about

this man who actually - if I'm placing Nya Korto now I'm placing

Nya Korto in the picture after Top Final. That's when I'm

looking at Nya Korto because that's when says he gets his orders

from Galakpalah to go in and he is lying unless he can define who

he was doing before, who he worked for in Sierra Leone, he is in

and out. In fact if he was in Liberia, what was he doing in

Liberia? So of course if you're a Liberian operator you know

that you are trained in 1990. You are trained. You know the

different stations. But picturing Nya Korto in Sierra Leone we

have to reflect on 1992 after Top Final which is May and Nya

Korto is lying on whatever happens after that because really he

is really a Johnny-come-late. That's all and he is just trying

to pick here and there.

Because all of the evidence like I see come here, if Nya

Korto or anybody, Foday Sankoh, had come on that road any time

after I would say July or August he would have encountered ULIMO.

He would have encountered ULIMO that had Lofa and in fact if they

were not in certain towns or villages they were in other villages

that it became a very militarised zone that no one could

penetrate so easily. So he is basically lying and he is a

latecomer and does not know what he is talking about when he

begins to talk about Alfred Brown and others that is a vanguard

who was in Sierra Leone long before him. No.

Q. Very well. Well, we're going to leave 1992 now and jump

ahead. I would like us to go, please, to page 4475, testimony of

21 February 2008. Could we begin, please, at line 7:

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30517

"Q. Did anyone outside Sierra Leone have access to the

codes, that is the codes that were used by the radio

operators?

A. If anybody else outside Sierra Leone had access to the

codes he should be an operator.

Q. Did this occur?

A. Yes.

Q. Who else had access to the codes?

A. Like I told you: Osman Tolo, Memunatu Deen who were

at the lodge or the guesthouse in Monrovia were all

operators and they also had access to these codes.

Q. The codes themselves, who was in charge of creating the

codes?

A. The code was brought from Liberia and it was a code

from the NPFL and we extracted them from the NPFL code

system.

Q. You mentioned Osman Tolo and Memunatu Deen as having

access to the codes. Is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. How do you know that?

A. Because they were external delegates from the RUF side

based in Monrovia.

Q. Why did they have access to the codes? Do you know?

A. Yes. Because they were operators and they used to

communicate with the RUF as external delegates.

Q. How do you know that?

A. I knew that as an operator and it was agreed and they

sent them for that purpose, and even before they went to

Monrovia, they were with Mr Sankoh in Ivory Coast. And

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30518

later after Mr Sankoh was dislodged, they escaped and

entered Monrovia.

Q. I want to take you to the time when Sam Bockarie was in

charge of the RUF.

A. Yes.

Q. When Sam Bockarie was in charge of the RUF, did anyone

outside of Sierra Leone have access to the RUF codes?

A. Yes.

Q. Who?

A. Osman Tolo was an operator who had access to the RUF

codes. Another operator by the name of Memunatu Deen also

had access to these codes and many others who were assigned

with Benjamin Yeaten, otherwise referred to as 50. Some

were assigned in Vahun and Foya.

Q. Who was Benjamin Yeaten?

A. Benjamin Yeaten was the immediate coordinator,

according to how I understood it when I arrived in Monrovia

in 1999, 22 December. I was introduced to him by Mr Sankoh

and he explained himself to me that he had been the

coordinator between Mr Charles Ghankay Taylor and Sam

Bockarie."

Now, let's just take things slowly, shall we. Firstly

this: You accept, don't you, Mr Taylor, that the RUF did have

radio operators at the guesthouse in Monrovia? We've dealt with

this, yes?

A. Yes, that's 1998.

Q. Now, if we look, first of all, at page - at lines 6 and 7

on page 4476. I don't want this detail to escape us, so let's

deal with this. "They went to Monrovia. They were with

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Page 30519

Mr Sankoh in Ivory Coast and later, after Mr Sankoh was

dislodged, they escaped and entered Monrovia." What do you know

about that?

A. But this is so clear. This is so clear. They were with

Mr Sankoh in Ivory Coast. When was Mr Sankoh in Ivory Coast?

Mr Sankoh is in Ivory Coast in 1996. That's when Sankoh is in

Ivory Coast. Sankoh is in Ivory Coast '96. He goes into Nigeria

early '97 and is arrested. Now, here we have an association with

'96 all the way up to 1998. Because the guesthouse is given to

the RUF when Sam Bockarie comes to Liberia, in fact, the second

trip in October 1998. So I don't know how this man can associate

these two periods. I don't, because you can't talk about

Foday Sankoh in Ivory Coast, like I say, in '96 and talk about

installation at the guesthouse, then you're talking about two

different time periods.

Q. But, Mr Taylor, was it the case that after Mr Taylor was

dislodged --

A. After Mr Sankoh.

Q. Mr Sankoh was dislodged and that occurs - and that is

linked in the context of this answer with the Ivory Coast, is it

the case that RUF operators escaped from the Ivory Coast and went

to Monrovia?

A. I really don't know. No, I do not know if Sierra Leoneans

entered Monrovia after Sankoh was arrested in la Cote d'Ivoire.

I don't know. I don't know.

Q. As far as you're aware, did the Ivorian authorities take

action against the RUF delegation in la Cote d'Ivoire following

Sankoh's arrest in Nigeria in March 1997?

A. I can say specifically they took no action. They did not -

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CHARLES TAYLOR



520

like by action you mean like trying to arrest them that they were

threatened? No. In fact, the guesthouse was not taken from

them. People stayed there, from my understanding, what I got to

know, that they were not harassed in la Cote d'Ivoire at all.

Q. Well, in light of that answer, can you recall any need for

RUF members to escape from la Cote d'Ivoire following Sankoh's

arrest?

A. No need whatsoever. No. In fact, even if we look at the

record, even when Sankoh is arrested in Nigeria, he alone he's

arrested. He's also with other Sierra Leoneans that are not even

touched. Gibril Massaquoi is with Sankoh during his arrest in

Nigeria. There is no reason, in specific answer to your

question, for anyone to escape. No one is threatened. The

Ivorian authorities are not hostile to Sankoh people that are on

the ground, I mean, to the best of my knowledge, in Ivory Coast.

Q. And at the time of Mr Sankoh's arrest in the Ivory Coast -

in Nigeria, Mr Taylor, which is March 1997 --

A. That is correct.

Q. -- did the RUF have a guesthouse in Monrovia?

A. No. I'm not even elected President yet of Liberia. I am

not the President of Liberia in March 1997. The head of the

Council of State is Ruth Sando Perry. They do not have a

guesthouse in Liberia at that time, no.

Q. Now, the second aspect of this passage that I want us to

deal with is this: You will note that at line 8 the witness's

attention is brought forward to the time when Sam Bockarie is in

charge of the RUF.

A. Yes.

Q. And in that context you will see at lines 17, 18 and 19

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30521

these words: Having dealt with who had access to the codes, it

goes on: "Some were assigned in Vahun and Foya." "Some" in the

context of the answer must be a reference to radio operators who

had access to the codes. Now, the question, Mr Taylor, is this:

After Sam Bockarie took charge of the RUF, apart from the radio

operator based, as you accept, at the guesthouse in Monrovia,

were there further RUF operators based in Vahun and Foya?

A. No. But how would they be based there? What - how? Sam

Bockarie takes charge of the RUF in when? In 1997 March when

Foday Sankoh is arrested in Nigeria. Who is in charge of this

area? Who is in charge of Lofa in '97 March? ULIMO. ULIMO is

in charge of Lofa. When does ULIMO relinquish Lofa? It's after

my election in July. So who would be there? If there were

operators there, there had to be arrangements between the RUF and

ULIMO.

March 1997, how would I be having radio people in that

particular area? Impossible. Impossible. Impossible. That's

totally, totally, totally false, okay. So, I mean, to even

suggest this.

But let me just make a point about this code thing. Don't

forget, this man is a trained radio operator by the NPFL as far

back as 1990. So the knowledge of codes or the Liberian - you

know, the knowledge of codes, Nya Lansana knows the codes because

that's a part of the training and he took - he took, you know,

the training on how to do codes. It did not take anyone in

Liberia sending him a set of codes before he would know how to

put codes together. No. So he is totally - he is totally,

totally, totally making this up about having radio operators in

Vahun and other places after Sam Bockarie takes over. Well,

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30522

someone would argue, well, he's not talking about the early part.

He is talking about the latter part, which would still be false.

Q. Well, Mr Taylor, Foya and Vahun may have a significance

which may in due course be relied upon. So, consequently, let me

take you now, please, to page 4483 of the transcript and we see

how Vahun and Foya might figure in the overall picture. Line 19:

"Q. Now, in terms of the communications between Benjamin

Yeaten and Sam Bockarie" --

And, remember, Yeaten is supposed to be the coordinator

between Charles Taylor and Sam Bockarie.

A. Yes.

Q. "Q. Now, in terms of the communication between Benjamin

Yeaten and Sam Bockarie, when Sam Bockarie was acting

leader of the RUF, do you remember any of the content of

those communications?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you explain?

A. Yes. Whenever Benjamin Yeaten was dispatching material

to Foya, or to Sam Bockarie, he will always send a message

or he will say that this particular person was coming with

some rations for you to your location. Upon the arrival of

the person, he will only come on the net to testify that he

has reached with that material. He will come with them and

a document. That was the procedure of communication that

was conducted during Sam Bockarie's time and Benjamin

Yeaten as mediator between Mr Charles Taylor and Sam

Bockarie.

Q. You said 'whenever Benjamin Yeaten was dispatching

material to Foya or to Sam Bockarie.' What do you mean by

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30523

the word 'material'?

A. When I talk about materials I mean arms and ammunition

or anything that had to do with war material. Most of the

time it is not explicit. It cannot be simplified on the

net. But as an operator it can be revealed to you that

there is a transaction to you. There is a transaction

between that individual and the next person who was

receiving that information."

So let's just pause, remind ourselves of those two

locations, Foya and Vahun. They are on the route from Monrovia

to Kailahun, aren't they, Mr Taylor?

A. Well, Foya, yes. Foya is on the route.

Q. And Foya is quite close to the border with Sierra Leone, is

it not, or close enough?

A. Close, yes. Okay, close enough, yes.

Q. Now, consider this scenario: Benjamin Yeaten is

coordinator and, as coordinator, he may well want the recipient

of this material to know when it had reached within striking

distance of that recipient. Do you follow?

A. Yes.

Q. So bearing that in mind, it might be of some use to have a

radio operator in a location like Foya. Do you follow?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. So that when the material reaches Foya, the RUF radio

operator there can get in touch with the troops over the border,

"Guess what, chaps. We're close." Do you follow?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. So that's the significance of it, Mr Taylor. So I'm asking

you again: Did you permit the RUF to have radio operators in

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30524

Foya and Vahun?

A. No. N-O, no. Every town and nearly every village in

Liberia, the NPFL at the time and even my government had a radio

installed. It did not take the RUF to have a radio in this place

for them to communicate. If communication had to be done it

could have been done from any one of the stations and that's why

these people's logic, you know - again this whole case - I think

Chris Santora in his work, they forgot to investigate the

presence of material in Liberia. You know this whole case rests

on the capacity of Taylor after he becomes President to provide

material to the RUF. If they had done their homework they would

have known that there was no material in Liberia.

And I tell you something, this is a shut and closed case.

If anyone believes that Liberia had arms and ammunition or

Charles Taylor had possession of those arms and ammunition in

Liberia between the time he becomes President up to about 2001

when I order material then really I'm already guilty in this

case. They did not do their work, they fabricated this lie on

the assumption that he had material, he had the stocks of

material in Liberia and he delivered them. That's where this lie

and everyone that comes here keeps talking about arms and

ammunition going. There are no arms and ammunition in the

possession of my government. The United Nations had all of them

and destroyed every last one. I do not know where I could have

pulled these arms out of a magical hat or whatever. It's a

blatant lie. Any arms that is alleged to have gone into Sierra

Leone from my government from the time I became President is

totally, totally a lie and that's how the lie was built and every

liar has been here talking about a bunch of arms. There's been a

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30525

lot of truth, I do not deny that small amounts of arms went

across that border, but my government did not send them. Whoever

bought their arms and things, fine. But that's the basis of this

lie.

And so this man is another one of them that have them

pushed right down the line. They have got to show that somebody

is supposed to be calling, "Guess what, the arms are almost

approaching. Is it there?" I have radios in those towns and

villages. If my government is sending arms why do we have to

install an RUF radio? If Benjamin Yeaten is sending an official

amount of arms from the Government of Liberia why do I need an

RUF operator? It's very simple. It's very simple. You use a

Liberian operator and Liberian securities would take them across

the border. It just doesn't make sense, but this is the basis of

my suffering because of this kind of lie on the assumption that,

well, if it's there he sent it. They just should have checked to

see if Liberia had arms at that time. They didn't.

Q. Well, Mr Taylor, the suggestion may well be that it's

precisely because there was a clandestine operation which you

didn't want the world to know about, but it was sophisticated

nonetheless, why you needed to use these outsiders. Do you see?

A. But which outsiders now?

Q. The RUF radio operators.

A. Yeah, but Benjamin Yeaten is supposed to be central to all

of this. Why would Benjamin Yeaten have to use an RUF operator?

These are not secret radios. These radios I'm sorry we need to

bring more to this. These radios, everyone and his grandmother

can listen to them. These are open air communications. There is

nothing cryptic - there is no cryptic thing here. These are

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30526

nothing but SSB radios that everyone and his grandmother can

listen to. Once you get on a frequency there's nothing secret,

so why do you need an RUF operator clandestinely with a radio in

a little --

PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr Taylor, I'm sorry to interrupt but the

court reporter cannot keep up and is having trouble getting this

down, so please slow down.

THE WITNESS: Okay, I will. I'm sorry. The point I'm

trying to make here is Benjamin Yeaten is central. If there is

supposed to be this movement a Liberian operator can be used, but

in fact if it is really clandestine why could do you need to call

at all? If it's really clandestine, one of the most senior

security people in the country is moving through an area with

arms and ammunition, why do you have to be calling at different

points? Did it get there? If it's really clandestine all you

have to do is put armed men and escort it. Why do you have to

call when you know everybody can listen.

And mind you what time are we talking about? Nobody in

West Africa is stupid. I surely am not stupid and I do not claim

that these intelligence agencies don't listen to telephone. You

know we've heard this Court listen to, "He's on the satellite

phone." Well, listen, a satellite phone is even more dangerous

in terms of listening from intelligence agencies just as a radio.

What is a satellite phone? You go up, link to a satellite, they

pick it up from the satellite as you link it down. So anybody

knows, even as President I knew, telephones operate at about

18,000 gigahertz and anyone - we had the capacity in Liberia, my

government, to intercept telephone calls, even from landlines.

So nobody is stupid here that somebody has got to be sneaking on

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30527

an open SSB to listen.

This is all - you know, trying to make up this cloak and

dagger business has got me in jail for four years trying to prove

a negative. That's all it amounts to. He had weapons; there

were no weapons. He's calling, "Vahun, Vahun, come in. Are the

materials there?" "Yes, it's passing." Nonsense. Total, utter

nonsense. You are operating clandestinely and you are on an open

communication. It didn't happen, but we have to go through it

this way.

This man is totally out of his league and there is nothing

going through but the little bits and pieces that people are

buying in Lofa that Prosecution witnesses have mentioned before

this Court and I'm in no position to disagree that small amounts

of arms and ammunition, and mostly ammunition, went across that

border by people that - ULIMO and other people that dug them up

and sold them. My government I am stating categorically did not

have arms or access to arms in Liberia to send it to Jesus if

possible.

MR GRIFFITHS:

Q. Now, Mr Taylor, remember to date in relation to this

witness we've been dealing with various means of communication

between you and the RUF in that period after May/June 1992. You

recall that, yes?

A. Yes.

Q. In that same vein let's move on to another allegation this

witness makes about your involvement in communication with the

RUF after that period. Page 4490, transcript of 21 February

2008, line 13:

"Q. When Foday Sankoh was arrested in Nigeria how did you

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30528

come to learn of this?

A. Foday Sankoh made a trip from Ivory Coast along with

Gibril Massaquoi, Martin Moinama, an operator, with the

intention of going to Libya and he was arrested in Nigeria

at the airport. Gibril Massaquoi escaped and he was in

Nigeria along with Martin Moinama. While in Nigeria he

used to visit Mr Sankoh.

Q. Who is 'he'?

A. Martin Moinama used to visit Mr Sankoh to get

information from Mr Sankoh and then transmit that

information to Liberia and from Liberia we received all

necessary communication into Sierra Leone. To set a bright

and clear example, Mr Sankoh was imprisoned in Nigeria.

When he promoted Sam Bockarie, Isaac Mongor, Morris Kallon,

Issa Sesay, Peter Vandi and many more saw communication

that they should cooperate until his release. That

particular communication was received from Martin Moinama

in a telephone conversation from Nigeria to Liberia and

from Liberia it was transmitted on the HF" - high

frequency, no doubt - "transmission into Sierra Leone.

Q. So while Foday Sankoh was in Nigeria, just to make sure

it's clear, we would - you said in this particular

communication as an example he would have Martin Moinama

visit him and Martin Moinama would use the phone to

transmit a message to Liberia and from that point on from

Liberia the message would be transmitted to the RUF in

Sierra Leone through the HF system. Is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Who in Liberia received the message from Martin Moinama

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30529

in this example?

A. Martin Moinama made me to understand this when he

returned to Sierra Leone after the AFRC coup that he used

to transmit that message, telephone communication to

Mr Charles Ghankay Taylor and then Taylor would download

the message or inform Benjamin Yeaten and from Benjamin

Yeaten to Sam Bockarie. Even the communication that we

received an order for us to join the AFRC was done through

the same process."

Do you see?

A. I see.

Q. So Sankoh got his radio operator Martin to call you,

Mr Taylor, and that's why you were the one who promoted Sam

Bockarie to general and Issa Sesay to general and ordered the RUF

to join with the AFRC. Do you see? You were the messenger boy

for Mr Sankoh. Is that right?

A. Well, I was not and as he explained it it's totally

erroneous. I think this Court doesn't need to be told any more.

They know the process through which the RUF and the AFRC got

together. It's been cleared here that Foday Sankoh spoke to

Johnny Paul Koroma. The conversation was recorded and played on

the radio and the BBC. And his own account that - I don't know

how these people let these people come and do this kind of thing.

Somebody he said escaped from Nigeria but he used to go to Sankoh

to get information. Now, when I hear the expression escaped,

that I equate - you know, I associate escaping with flight, fear.

How will you escape and you will be able to go in Nigeria? You

escape from Nigeria but you've brave enough - you are under

threat and fear but you are right in the presence that you can

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CHARLES TAYLOR



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get messages. What is he talking about? Did these people

escaped? What are these people talking about?

So this account, your Honours, is just incredible for me

that I - you know, I have heard testimony and I have read

statements provided by the Prosecution of one of the individuals

provided whose name is mentioned here. His account of this - he

hasn't been brought to this Court yesterday, but his account of

this is quite different. He's given letters when they leave

Nigeria. They are - in fact, Foday Sankoh is in communication,

because for Foday Sankoh to be able to speak to Johnny Paul

Koroma and record a message, it simply means that there is a

degree of freedom with Foday Sankoh while he's in Nigeria. But

everything is done - the promotion is done by Foday Sankoh.

Mind you, the same witness has said I ordered Sankoh. Then

Sankoh is a very, very terrible officer. How dare Sankoh promote

people without my instructions? He's a terrible officer under me

to do that. All this fabrication is just what it is. I have

nothing to do with any promotion of Bockarie and the rest. I

have nothing to do with the AFRC and the RUF coming together. It

is all Foday Sankoh that does this.

Q. Well, help me with this, Mr Taylor: This man, Martin

Moinama, line 16, page 4490, an operator, one assumes in this

context a radio operator, can you help us. Why would Mr Sankoh

take a radio operator with him?

A. I don't know. I don't know why. I'm sure - well, to help

the Court, when - when Sankoh - I understand, while he was in la

Cote d'Ivoire, he was given a guesthouse and installed at the

guesthouse was communication that he will stay in contact with

his people behind him in Sierra Leone.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30531

Q. Yes.

A. That is my understanding.

Q. Yes. So help me, Mr Taylor, if Sankoh had that facility in

Cote d'Ivoire, why was he using you as his messenger boy?

A. I don't know why. And, in fact, just to add to it, at this

particular time that this witness is talking about, I'm still not

elected President of Liberia. He's still referring to it. I'm

not elected President of Liberia, and so the fact that there's an

operator in Monrovia, I don't know where he would be, and so I'm

still not President. I guess, mixing it up, he associates this

period with my presidency, which is not the case.

Q. Now, just help me, please, with this, because given what is

said about your direct involvement in downloading the message or

informing Bockarie, I want to ask you about the technicalities of

these things, Mr Taylor. Do you follow?

A. Yes.

Q. So when we return to page 4491, we see at line 19, the

witness is asked:

"Q. In terms of the transmissions from Liberia to Sierra

Leone, you said it was over HF. Is that correct?

A. No.

Q. How is the message from Liberia - once it arrived in

Liberia, how would it be sent to the RUF in Sierra Leonean?

A. From Liberia to Sierra Leone it was done through the HF

communication and from Nigeria to Liberia it was done

through telephone conversation."

So help me, Mr Taylor. If you're receiving these telephone

calls from Nigeria, what were you downloading?

A. I don't - I don't know. When I hear download, technically,

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30532

I think that it mostly refers to internet activities, to download

something.

Q. Well, you were supposed to be doing it, Mr Taylor, that's

why I'm asking you to provide us with an explanation. What were

you doing?

A. There was no such thing that anyone could download because

I would not work for Foday Sankoh. On the one hand, I can't be

ordering Foday Sankoh and working for him at the same time, so

there is no such thing. And there would not be what - if a

telephone - maybe he is trying to say that maybe a telephone

conversation came and instruction - he is using big words that he

doesn't understand, but there is no way you can download a

telephone call. I don't know how - I have never downloaded one

even for myself. I don't know if technically it's possible to

download a telephone call.

But, again, this is a reflection of the incredible nature

of these statements that these witnesses have been prompted to

come here with and they just go off talking nonsense. Total

nonsense.

Q. Page 4492, same topic, line 8:

"Q. Now, you said there was also a message related to the

AFRC.

A. Yes, that was another one.

Q. Explain this message.

A. We received that instruction from Sam Bockarie that

Mr Sankoh had agreed with Johnny Paul Koroma that the RUF

should join the AFRC junta in Freetown. That message was

sent from Sam Bockarie. According to him, it was a

communication that was received from Martin Moinama to

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30533

Gibril Massaquoi that we were to comply with with immediate

effect. According to him there were details that were

recorded. Upon his arrival in Freetown it would be

presented to the hard core of the RUF.

Colonel Isaac Mongor refused to obey that command. He

asked Sam Bockarie to clarify that report before his troops

could join the AFRC in Matotoka. Sam Bockarie reiterated

to Isaac Mongor that he was to comply with this instruction

notwithstanding. When Martin Moinama and Gibril Massaquoi

were invited to Freetown after the AFRC coup, they

themselves - I mean Martin Moinama and Gibril Massaquoi

made it very he clear that every conversation that was

going on between Mr Sankoh on to Liberia and then

transmitted on the HF to Sam Bockarie were conducted by

them."

Over the page. He is asked again in relation to this

message regarding the AFRC, line 5:

"A. Martin was in Nigeria. He had a means of

communication with Mr Sankoh and in return send a telephone

message to Mr Charles Taylor in Liberia. After that

conversation he would communicate all necessary messages

that will be received on to Sam Bockarie through the HF

radio."

Then he continues, line 18:

"A. When the AFRC overthrew the NPRC in 1997, Martin

confirmed the communications that we used to receive from

Sam Bockarie through Benjamin Yeaten on the orders of

Mr Charles Taylor having been received from Martin and

Gibril Massaquoi from Nigeria."

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30534

Nothing could be clearer, Mr Taylor.

A. Yes, that's true. Based on his explanation, he thought it

was clear. But there's nothing truthful about this. And I don't

need to repeat this. I think there's sufficient record before

this Court that Foday Sankoh spoke to Johnny Paul Koroma and

Johnny Paul Koroma recorded that message and played it on Sierra

Leonean radio and on the BBC. So this whole thing is nothing but

a fabrication on his part that there was supposed to be some

communication from Sankoh to me downloaded, in a call Bockarie

and Bockarie then told them - it's all nonsense and just a lie,

like a host of other lies that they have been telling.

Q. Mr Taylor, I want us to deal with this allegation very

briefly. This witness also suggests that Issa Sesay was sent to

you with diamonds in exchange for arms. What do you say,

quickly?

A. Never. Never. No. Never.

Q. Thank you. Let's move on to another topic. At page 4571,

testimony of this witness of 22 February 2008, the witness said

this, line 1:

"Q. Did you remain in Sierra Leone for all of 1999?

A. No. After the Lome Peace Accord was signed we were the

first batch that Mr Sankoh instructed to disarm in Port

Loko. I joined Superman and we disarmed over 2,000 troops

in Port Loko and I was asked by Mr Sankoh to move to

Freetown."

The question is repeated:

"Q. The question was in 1999 did you remain in Sierra Leone

the whole time?

A. No. After the disarmament in Port Loko I moved to

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30535

Mr Sankoh in Freetown and every document in respect of my

travelling was put in place and on 21 December I travelled

to see my family in Monrovia and I was in Monrovia from the

22nd" - that's 22 December 1999, Mr Taylor, yes?

A. Yes.

Q. "... up to April 2000." Okay?

A. Uh-huh.

Q. So this was a man with family links to Liberia and to

Sierra Leone, do you follow?

A. Yes, yes.

Q. "During my stay in Monrovia Mr Sankoh introduced me to

Benjamin Yeaten." Pause there. Tell me, in that period,

December 1999 to April 2000, was Mr Sankoh in Monrovia?

A. December 1999, yes. Mr Sankoh did go to Monrovia in

December of 1999. In fact, late in December there's a

discussion, remember, between he, Foday Sankoh, when he meets

Obasanjo and myself. So he is in Monrovia in December 1999.

Q. And just remind us. What was the purpose of that Sankoh

visit?

A. This was at the height of the conflict between he and Sam

Bockarie. He had come for what I would call a final discussion

on Sam Bockarie agreeing to two things: accept his orders and

commence the disarmament process in Sierra Leone. That's when I

invited Obasanjo to come for us to have this final decision on

moving Lome.

Q. I'm grateful. Moving on:

"During my stay in Monrovia Mr Sankoh introduced me to

Benjamin Yeaten in order to meet Mr Charles Ghankay Taylor and

explain to him the issues of misunderstanding that went on

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30536

between Sam Bockarie and Superman. But during my stay in

Monrovia I was not fortunate to speak with Mr Charles Ghankay

Taylor one to one. I frequently met with Benjamin Yeaten at his

residence and he made me to understand that there wasn't any need

of meeting with Mr Charles Ghankay Taylor and according to him

they had investigated and came to know the truth and that the

misleading informations that were given to them by Sam Bockarie

and based on that fact he was the one who received Sam Bockarie

from Lofa County. Sam Bockarie was under his control in Monrovia

and he was under serious monitoring and he was under perfect

security protection and in due course he was going to face the

consequences of what he did in Sierra Leone, but they needed

sufficient proof about the disorderly conduct in Sierra Leone."

Now, what's that about, Mr Taylor?

A. I really don't know. I really don't know what nonsense

this boy is talking about. I have no idea of what he is talking

about.

Q. Let's try and unpack it carefully, shall we? What's this

misleading information which was given by Sam Bockarie, please?

A. Nothing. I have no idea what it is. Nothing. In fact,

being there to - who is he that he - that Sankoh - he is there to

meet me one on one. I mean all this gibberish is just that.

Nothing of this sort that there's some misunderstanding. What

does this boy know? Nothing. I don't know what he is talking

about really. It doesn't amount to anything, what he's saying

here.

Q. And help me, please. "In due course he was going to face

the consequences of what he did in Sierra Leone." Was it your

intention to put Mr Bockarie on trial, Mr Taylor?

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30537

A. No, never.

Q. So what are these consequences that the witness speaking

of, please?

A. This boy does not know, counsel, what is he talking about.

Nothing. Sam Bockarie is in Liberia as a free man moving around.

There was no intention on the part of the Government of Liberia

to investigate, arrest or anything with Sam Bockarie or any of

his people. This boy is talking pure nonsense.

Q. Well, let's go over the page to page 4572 and see if we can

some clarification on this because if we look at commencing line

24 we see this:

"What I'm trying to say is that there was a

misunderstanding or misinformation that Sam Bockarie used to pass

on to Benjamin Yeaten and that Superman and the entire Liberian

troops that were under his command were breakaway factions and

that they a different intention, different from the RUF agenda."

Over the page, line 6:

"The information was given to Benjamin Yeaten by Sam

Bockarie. He explained a lot to me" - that's Benjamin Yeaten -

"regarding what was going on. Especially the thing in respect of

the infighting that took place in Makeni and Koinadugu and even

the time of our stay at Lunsar."

Line 15:

"Benjamin Yeaten said that even if Mr Charles Taylor were

to send for Superman or any commander in Liberia were to send for

Superman, Superman will never be brave enough to go to Monrovia

because he knew what he had done and he knew the plans that he

was carrying on with presently with the SLA and he knew the rules

and regulations of the RUF code of conduct."

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30538

Now, you see the implication of that, don't you, Mr Taylor?

That such was your control over the RUF that, in effect, you

would be dishing out discipline where they broke the rules and

regulations of the RUF code of conduct. You do follow, don't

you?

A. Yes, I do. I see what he is trying to say here.

Q. Well, is that the case?

A. That's not the case. I mean, this is so far off of what is

associated with my knowledge or understanding of what is going on

during this period that I don't even - I can't - I can't lay any

hands on what this young man is trying to say. I mean really

because when you look at it, we have evidence that Superman comes

to Monrovia. Superman comes to Monrovia, he travels back to

Sierra Leone. There is no intention on the part of my government

to embarrass or arrest or harm anybody, Sierra Leoneans come in

and go. So I cannot associate what is he talking about. He is

just for me way out in left field talking nonsense about Superman

would not do this and all of --

Q. But, Mr Taylor, it's my fault entirely. Can I just draw

your attention back to page 4571, because I omitted to deal with

one aspect of the testimony which I would like you to have an

opportunity to comment on. Going back to that page, 4571, you'll

recall the witness saying at line 13:

"During my stay in Monrovia Mr Sankoh introduced me to

Benjamin Yeaten in order to meet Mr Charles Ghankay Taylor and

explain to him the issues of misunderstanding."

So he was, on my understanding, due to speak to you on

behalf of Mr Sankoh. Now he goes on to say, "I frequently met

with Benjamin Yeaten," and he has this discussion with Benjamin

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30539

Yeaten, lines 18 to 28.

And then he goes on, line 29:

"So as a matter of fact there was no reason for me to meet

Mr Charles Ghankay Taylor as I was instructed by Mr Foday Sankoh

in Monrovia."

Now help me. Mr Sankoh was in Monrovia in the December,

wasn't he?

A. Yes, he was.

Q. And did you prevent him from speaking his mind to you on

any issue, Mr Taylor?

A. No, Foday Sankoh met with me during that stay several times

and if there was anything that he wanted to discuss with me he

would have discussed it with me because remember now Foday Sankoh

is in a heated something with his under man Sam Bockarie, we're

trying to settle it, another colleague of mine come in. So

there's nothing that Foday Sankoh wanted to say to me that he

could not have said, that he would have had to wait for him to

explain it to me.

Q. Because the witness is saying that Sankoh introduces him to

Yeaten in order for the witness to be able to explain to you what

Mr Sankoh wanted to tell you, so help me.

A. It doesn't make sense. I mean wasn't it easier - isn't it

logical for Sankoh to bring him to me in a meeting to say, "Well,

look, here is a young man that was on the ground." Why does

Sankoh have to take this man, introduce him to Benjamin Yeaten

who is supposed to explain something to me when all Sankoh has to

do is to bring the man along with him. That's how these people -

that's how they make up things, okay. What is it so much that is

going on that Sankoh cannot either explain to me himself or bring

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30540

this Nya Korto man.

The only suggestion I can make here is this, it's good for

the Court to - Nya Korto is a Mano man from Nimba County.

Benjamin Yeaten is a Gio man from Nimba County. The Gios and the

Manos are like brothers. You speak Gio, you understand Mano.

You speak Mano, you understand Gio. All I can suggest here, and

it's a mere suggestion, is that this Nya Korto, because as far as

the work that I have done that Lansana was a fake name that he

put up in Sierra Leone. He is Korto. He is a Mano boy from

Nimba County. He returns to Liberia and probably meets a brother

like Benjamin Yeaten and wants help and that's why he is visiting

Benjamin all the time.

Because, let's face it, here is a radio operator that once

served as radio operator for Foday Sankoh, as he alleges. And

here is someone that is not featured - because Foday Sankoh comes

to Monrovia in 1999 and Nya Korto is not featured anywhere in the

staff that Foday Sankoh leaves in Monrovia. He is not a radio

operator. He is nothing in Monrovia. He doesn't feature. So

what my head is telling me here is that Nya Korto probably leaves

and is returns to Liberia and is trying to seek assistance from

Benjamin. Because one would say at this particular guesthouse in

Monrovia there are people and, for a senior person like him, one

would want to believe that he could be utilised in Monrovia even

between '99 up to the 2000 that he suggests that he is in

Liberia. But there's something funny about his presence in

Liberia where he does not participate in any RUF activities

besides staying there waiting to explain the unexplainable what

he is trying to allege here.

So I think there is something suspect here about his

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30541

presence in Liberia and I think he went to Liberia on his own and

maybe trying to seek assistance from a brother from Nimba County

because the Manos and the Gios are very close.

Q. A couple of other matters I want to deal with in relation

to this witness, Mr Taylor. Let us go back to page 4573, please.

Line 21:

"Q. So what was Benjamin Yeaten's assessment, if you know,

of the situation?

A. He came to know the truth during the time that Sam

Bockarie challenged the leadership of Foday Sankoh, saying

that he was no longer going to take any mess from

Foday Sankoh and that he was prepared to declare himself as

another leader and that report was sent to Mr Charles

Ghankay Taylor. And Mr Foday Sankoh made his report

categorically clear that this had been the honest

misunderstanding and that Sam Bockarie was now defying his

authority. So he said, 'Big brother, I am kindly asking

you to intervene and see how best you can calm down Sam

Bockarie in respect of his new decision' and, under the

command of Mr Charles Taylor, Sam Bockarie was ordered to

pack up and leave Sierra Leone to Liberia."

True, Mr Taylor?

A. No. Not under my command. Sam Bockarie was brought to

Liberia under the auspices of ECOWAS and the United Nations and I

say that because the United Nations - the special representative

of the Secretary-General --

Q. I think we can deal with this fairly briefly, Mr Taylor,

because we've got five minutes and I would like to --

A. Okay. ECOWAS was present, so his explanation of under my

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30542

order is just total nonsense.

Q. What about this report allegedly sent to you by

Foday Sankoh, where is it?

A. There was no report sent by Foday Sankoh.

Q. Just a couple of other matters for completeness. Can we go

to page 4583, please. There the witness told us this during the

course of his cross-examination:

"Q. You told us you went by a nickname of CO Nya?

A. Yes.

Q. Now Foday Lansana is not the name you answered when you

were growing up in Liberia, is it?

A. Yes.

Q. Your father's name or your family name is Nessian, is

it not?

A. Yes.

Q. In fact your full name given to you by your father is

Nyahn Korto Nessian?

A. Yes.

Q. You were born in Nimba County, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you're a Mano man, that's your tribe, is it not?

A. Yes."

And then finally when we go to page 4574 of the transcript

we learn that this witness was arrested on 7 May by the Sierra

Leonean authorities. He was accused of being a Liberian

mercenary working as a mediator between Foday Sankoh and Charles

Ghankay Taylor, page 4575, lines 20 and 21. He says he was

seriously tortured and taken to Pademba prison. He was

thereafter put on trial for shooting with intent to murder and

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30543

conspiracy to murder arising out of the 15 May incident outside

Mr Sankoh's residence at Spur Road in Freetown and he was

sentenced to 150 years' imprisonment.

Now, Mr Taylor, given that this man was born in Liberia

what did you do about this punishment imposed on a Liberian

citizen?

A. Nothing. This is just a traumatised man that they managed

to seduce to come here and lie unfortunately. He is just a

traumatised individual. He was tortured, given 150 years. I

would lie myself I guess.

MR GRIFFITHS: Would that be a convenient point

Mr President? That's all I ask about witness.

PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes, we're almost out of tape anyway,

Mr Griffiths, so we'll take the morning break and resume at 12

o'clock.

[Break taken at 11.29 a.m.]

[Upon resuming at 12.00 p.m.]

PRESIDING JUDGE: Ms Hollis, yes.

MS HOLLIS: Thank you, Mr President, before we move on to

the next witness, prosecution would like to place on the record

its objection that Defence counsel has misstated and

mischaracterised portions of the testimony of this witness Foday

Lansana, and we will deal with that in cross-examination.

Mr President, while I'm on my feet, we would also note that

we have not received the two-week notice regarding witnesses and

exhibits for next week. Now, we know the Defence had estimated

that this accused would continue to be on direct examination for

next week. We have received no written notice of that, nor have

we received anything in writing relating to exhibits for next

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30544

week, and we would ask that we be provided this information

today. Thank you.

PRESIDING JUDGE: Thank you, Ms Hollis. Well firstly, the

Prosecution objection to the first point raised, is now a matter

of record.

And the other matter raised regarding the notice,

Mr Griffiths, do you have anything to say about that?

MR GRIFFITHS: Save that all exhibits to be relied upon

have long been served upon the Prosecution.

PRESIDING JUDGE: So there is nothing more to expect?

MR GRIFFITHS: Nothing more to expect.

PRESIDING JUDGE: Does that satisfy your query, Ms Hollis?

MS HOLLIS: As to the exhibits, yes. And could we get

verification about the witness for next week, if direct will

continue in or through next week?

PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes, I note you did anticipate two weeks.

MR GRIFFITHS: [Microphone not activated].

PRESIDING JUDGE: So in other words, going along with that

estimation, the witness for next week will be Mr Taylor only?

MR GRIFFITHS: I anticipate that. And thereafter I

anticipate some cross-examination by the Prosecution, which I

presume might last a little while. So from our point of view

there are no surprises in terms of witnesses to come.

PRESIDING JUDGE: Thank you, Mr Griffiths.

Well, there you have it, Ms Hollis.

Yes, please go ahead.

MR GRIFFITHS:

Q. Mr Taylor, we are going to move on to deal with another

witness. This witness is witness TF1-571, Karmoh Kanneh, who

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30545

gave evidence in open session in May of last year. Now, the

first point I want to deal with in relation to this witness,

Mr Taylor, is the circumstances in which he came to join, as he

explained, the RUF, and there are particular questions that I

want to ask you about that. Now, the witness told us this on 8

May 2008 at page 9315, line 1:

"Well, when they came and attacked the town, they started

shooting all around. Most of our colleagues escaped but

some of us who were unable to escape, they captured us.

Q. When you say 'us', how many of you were captured?

A. In all, myself plus 16 others. All of us who were

captured were men.

Q. What ages were you?

A. Well, there were two people amongst us who had about 10

years of age and then the other - the remaining others were

above 23 years of age.

Q. What do you mean by 'captured'?

A. Well, then we they captured the town those of us they

met around they assembled all of us and we were the men

amongst the women who were captured, so they assembled all

of us it together and then they warned us asking that we

join them and they said we should not attempt to escape at

all. They said if anybody attempted to escape, if that

person was caught he or she would be killed."

Now, bear in mind, Mr Taylor, this is said to be occurring

in 1991. And when we go to page 9316, quickly, he goes on to

mention at line 14 that - well, perhaps for completeness sake I

ought to go back to 9315 and pick up.

"Q. When you say 'they', do you know the person who was

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Page 30546

saying this to you? Did that person have a name?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was the person's name?

A. One Man One.

Q. And what was that person's position, if you know?

A. Well, he was in control of all the rebels who entered

on the Pujehun front. He was the leader amongst them

there.

Q. How did you know that he was the leader?

A. Well, he was later introduced to us as the leader.

Q. Where was he from?

A. Liberia.

Q. With what happened to you after you were captured?

A. After some days, they told us they were going to take

us to the base.

Q. How do you know that the person One Man One was a

Liberian?

A. Well, he was speaking in Liberian tongue and at the

same time later after I had joined them I came to know."

And he goes on to mention that he was familiar with

Liberian English and then says at line 22, "After some days they

told us they were going to take us to a base."

At page 9317, that base was at Gisiwolo, a training base.

Line 11, that is: "Those who entered through Pujehun, that was

where they had their training base."

Line 19:

"Q. What did you do when you were at Gisiwolo?

A. Well, they started training us. They started training

us."

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Page 30547

Now, I've read all of that, Mr Taylor, to ask this. First

of all, One Man One, is that name familiar to you?"

A. Well, yes, I have heard it here, but I don't know --

Q. Pardon?

A. I have heard it in this courtroom, and I will explain my

knowledge of that expression as I have known it. That was not an

individual's name that was - it was used, was a description like

an aka of a particular weapon.

Q. An alias?

A. An alias, yes.

Q. Very well. But outside of this courtroom, does that name -

that alias, One Man One, mean anything to you?

A. Yes. It means - for me, that's what I am saying, when I

hear "One Man One" it refers - it's a description of a weapon. I

have never heard it as associated with a name of someone.

Q. Oh, I see.

A. So I have heard the name, yes.

Q. Very well. But in any event, Mr Taylor, the reason why I

have begun with this passage is straightforward. You appreciate

that the allegation here is people speaking Liberian English were

forcefully conscripting individuals into the RUF. Do you follow?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. By extension, one possible interpretation is that your NPFL

forces in Pujehun were forcefully conscripting Sierra Leonean

citizens into the RUF. Do you follow?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, the first question I want to ask you is this: Was

such forceful conscription a policy adopted in Liberia by the

NPFL?

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Page 30548

A. No, it was not.

Q. Had the NPFL at any stage during the Liberian conflict

employed such strategies?

A. No.

Q. Had you instructed NPFL soldiers to adopt such strategies

in Sierra Leone?

A. No. I was not involved in this 1991 operation in Sierra

Leone, so I could not have instructed any NPFL soldier. As far

as I am concerned, there were not NPFL soldiers involved in

Sierra Leone and if they were, they were on their own. So there

were no instructions given to anyone in Sierra Leone.

Q. During that period when you accept that you cooperated with

Foday Sankoh in Sierra Leone, did you instruct, condone,

acquiesce in the forceful conscription of Sierra Leonean citizens

into the RUF?

A. No, but let me clarify that "no". The operations that were

conducted in Sierra Leone between '91 and '92 had nothing to do

with training of Sierra Leoneans. I sent a security force to the

border that operated against ULIMO. The force that went into

Sierra Leone was not a force of cooperation that dealt with

training for the advancement of a war in Sierra Leone. I sent

men that were involved in combat against ULIMO in Sierra Leone

and I withdrew those men. So I want to draw a distinction. So I

did not send a unit for any - to help the RUF in their training

in tactics and weapons to fight their war, no. My involvement in

Sierra Leone was purely security for Liberia.

Q. Now, that may well be your position, Mr Taylor, but I need

to ask you nonetheless: Were you aware of any NPFL forces that

you sent to Sierra Leone behaving in the manner I have suggested,

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Page 30549

that is, forcefully recruiting Sierra Leonean citizens into

combat?

A. No. Absolutely no.

Q. Were you aware of the presence of a training base at a

place called Gisiwolo in Sierra Leone?

A. No, I was not aware.

Q. Now, Mr Taylor, do you recall when we were dealing with the

testimony of Foday Lansana this morning I took a little time to

outline in order to place in context Sankoh allegedly returning

to Liberia after Top Final, after the RUF's penetration into

Pujehun had been repelled? Do you remember me asking you about

that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Well, this witness also deals with that episode. So let us

look at his account. Page 9332, the witness says this at line

10:

"Finally we were pushed and we were attacked from all

fronts. They attacked us and they even captured Bo

Waterside and all of us ran away into Liberia.

Q. Whereabouts in Liberia did you run to?

A. The first place we went to was Tiene."

Now you remember us mentioning Tiene before, Mr Taylor?

A. Yes.

Q. And Tiene is in which country?

A. Tiene is in Liberia.

Q. "Q. Did you stay in Tiene?

A. No.

Q. Where did you go from Tiene?

A. Well, we went to Bomi Hills.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30550

Q. Did you remain for any time in Bomi Hills?

A. Well, we were there for just a few days."

Now pause there. Help us. Mr Taylor, were you aware of a

force of RUF combatants retreating in the face of an onslaught

from Sierra Leonean government forces into Bomi Hills in Liberia?

Were you aware of that, such a movement of people?

A. No, I was not aware. But let's be very clear about this

now, counsel. The period this witness I think is referring to is

1991, am I correct about that?

Q. Based on my reading of his evidence, yes.

A. Okay. So if he is talking about 1991, then this is

unrelated to the Top Final thing that this other man is talking

about. This now he is talking about - early in that conflict I

am not aware that there is this movement into Liberia from across

the border. This is around March/April 1991. No, I am not aware

of that.

Q. And he continues, line 22:

"Q. What happened whilst you were there" - that's in Bomi

Hills?

"A. Well, that same commander, the battle group commander,

One Man One, we met all of them there, because that was

where all the senior commanders stopped, so we all went and

stopped there.

Q. You said you were there for just a few days. What

happened during those few days that you were there?

A. Well, we were there when we saw Foday Sankoh and at the

same time we saw Mr Taylor. All of them came.

Q. How did Mr Taylor come? Do you know how he came

there, what method he came there?

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30551

A. Well, we just saw him. He was in the vehicle. They

came on board a vehicle. And where we were based they all

came there, he and Foday Sankoh.

Q. Did he and Foday Sankoh come together?

A. No, Foday Sankoh came first - first came.

Q. When you say Mr Taylor, who are you talking about?

What's the full name of that person, if you know?

A. Well, that name, Charles Ghankay Taylor, that is what

we normally called him by.

Q. Had you ever seen him before that time?

A. No, that was my first day - first day to see him.

Q. What did Charles Taylor do?

A. Well, they called us to a formation and then all of us

were briefed. They gave us courageous words. They said we

shouldn't fear. We will have to return. They said we

shouldn't fear.

Q. When say they gave you courageous words, who was

speaking?

A. Well, he himself. Charles Taylor, was the first person

who spoke and then later he buttressed by Foday Sankoh.

Q. What did Charles Taylor say exactly at that formation?

A. Well, he said he had come with armament, materials and

all other things and he said we were going to get ready and

back to Sierra Leone.

Q. Did he say anything else?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he say?

A. He said he was going to divide the group into two."

Over the page, page 9334, picking it up at line 23:

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30552

"It was Mr Ghankay first who spoke and Foday Sankoh spoke

later. It was Foday Sankoh.

Line 28:

"Q. You also said previously that Charles Taylor said he

was going to divide the group into two. He told us that.

Did he divide the group into two?

A. Yes.

Q. How many were in the one group before it was divided?

A. Well, we were many, but our group that we went with,

that is the one I will be able to give an account about.

Q. How many were placed into the group that you were

placed into?

A. Well, in our group that we moved with initially when we

moved to Bomi Hills, although some later added, but we were

initially 500.

Q. How many were there in the group that you were placed

into?

A. Where we went, Mano River, the group that we moved

with.

Q. The big group was divided into two, is that so?

A. Yes, yes.

Q. You were put into one of those new groups, is that

right?

A. Yes.

Q. How many in the group that you were put into?

A. 250.

Q. Did the group that you were placed into have a name?

A. Yes.

Q. Who gave the group the name, if you know?

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30553

A. It was Mr Taylor.

Q. And what was the name of the group?

A. It was called Black Kadaffa."

Over the page:

"Q. When you were placed into that group, was there

someone who was in charge of the group?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was that?

A. General Pepe.

Q. Where was General Pepe from?

A. He was an NPFL general.

Q. Was there a person who was his - was reporting to him

in the group? Who was that?

A. General Devon."

Pause there. Now, Mr Taylor, there is a lot there for us

to digest. Firstly, this witness attaches you with presence in

Bomi Hills in company with Foday Sankoh following this retreat

from Pujehun in Sierra Leone, do you see?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And you addressed that group, put simply, geeing them up

for further combat and providing them with war materials, yes?

A. Yes.

Q. And you note, of course, how this testimony synchronises

with what we looked at this morning with Foday Lansana. Sankoh

returning to Liberia at some stage following the expulsion of the

RUF from Pujehun and returning later with radio operators who had

been part of that group expelled, including Albert Brown and

others, do you see? What do you say about that, Mr Taylor?

A. Well, in the first place, this is not true. But, again, I

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30554

may be missing you. I may be missing out on what you are

referring to again, because again I think we may be talking about

two different times here. But he also associates me with Black

Kadaffa.

Q. Yes, you gave the name to the group, Mr Taylor?

A. And this is the same group that is planning to destroy me

and the whole NPFL and Degbon and the rest. Well, Degbon doesn't

have - there is no one - Degbon is a Special Force and a very

senior and a very educated man. And there is no way that there

is a General Pepe that he talks about here.

Q. Can I interrupt briefly just to seek some clarification on

something?

A. Yes.

Q. And please hold the answer - continue with your answer in

due course. General Pepe, known to you?

A. No, that's what I am saying. I don't know a General Pepe,

okay. The only - if we want to help the Court, I know a General

Dry Pepper, which is Anthony Mekunagbe. So I am not sure now if

this is - but Degbon would not work under Mekunagbe because

Degbon would be senior to Anthony Mekunagbe. I have mentioned to

this Court General Degbon was amongst the top in the NPFL, very

educated. He had a master's degree from a major European

university in geology and was educated. Anthony Mekunagbe was a

little - he had been just an under high school graduate and a

police officer before. Degbon was most senior to Mekunagbe, so

he cannot be referring here to - I can't see him mixing Dry

Pepper with Pepe. So I am just suggesting - I don't know what he

is talking about here. But, in any case, Black Kadaffa is not a

group associated with me. It's an anti-NPFL group. We've talked

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30555

about it. That's how Degbon and they rest of them get arrested,

charged, tried and all of that.

So this account that he is giving referring to - and I am

not sure, counsel, maybe I am missing something. I cannot still

associate this with this return in 1992. But, anyway, we will go

on with this. But I think this retreat he is talking about could

be a different line and I am sure of what I am saying, but there

is no association with me being in Bomi in direct answer, one,

with Foday Sankoh. There is no association of me being a part of

or naming the Black Kadaffa. I went after Black Kadaffa. Black

Kadaffa and the leadership were arrested and tried for the

anti-revolutionary activities. And so for anyone to suggest

this, it shows that he is up to something that is not true

because I went after Black Kadaffa and following the arrest of

Degbon, Oliver Varney, Anthony Mekunagbe and the rest of them

that were charged, prosecuted and executed for wanting to kill me

and the rest of the NPFL and what they were doing, Black Kadaffa

failed to exist. So for somebody to come here and say I stood

before Black Kadaffa and named them and all that type of

nonsense, that's totally untrue.

Q. We may get a hint, bearing in mind what you said about Pepe

or Dry Pepper, because on that same page, the testimony of the

witness continued in this way. Mr Munyard intervened at line 25

and said: "Not in the document that I have got from the

Prosecution that gives these very names double P in the middle."

And then the witness is asked: "Do you know how Dry Pepper

spelt the name Pepe?"

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30556

Q. And the Dry Pepper you were talking about is who?

A. Anthony Mekunagbe.

Q. And you have already mentioned to us how you say Anthony

Mekunagbe was implicated in the Black Kadaffa plot?

A. Definitely.

Q. Along with General Degbon?

A. Degbon, Oliver Varney and the rest of them, yes.

JUDGE SEBUTINDE: If I may seek clarification. How did the

name Black Kadaffa come about?

THE WITNESS: I really don't know, your Honour, how they

came up with that name to call it Black Kadaffa. I really don't

know how they came up with that name. It could have been one of

Degbon and their own construction because of what they were

trying to do, they just called it Black Kadaffa. I have no

attachment to my understanding of why or how they came up with

that.

JUDGE SEBUTINDE: So it was not a group that existed

officially in the NPFL and later became renegade?

THE WITNESS: No, no it was not - it was a group that they

just came up and put together that operation that was stopped

when we arrested them. I understand your question. Was it a

group that became a renegade? No. It was a non-existing

official NPFL group. It was an entire group that they just came

up with in their diabolical work.

MR GRIFFITHS:

Q. Now I am moving on, Mr Taylor. Because at page 9354, the

witness moves ahead and speaks of attending a meeting with Foday

Sankoh, line 7, and he says this:

"Well, Foday Sankoh went to Abidjan to sign the peace

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30557

accord on our behalf. On his return, that was the time

that I met with him.

Q. Were you the only person who met with him, or were

there others who met with him at that time?

A. There were other people there. But when he came, at

first he called for a formation. The soldiers with whom we

were, officers and soldiers, we all assembled at the

grounds for the formation. Well, he addressed, told us

about the peace that he had signed and he said he had done

it in the interests of the movement, for all of us. That

was what he told us at the formation. He said he had

signed the peace on our behalf, but that does not mean the

war has ended. He said during times of peace, those are

times that we should prepare for war. He said we should

not forget. Yes, because by then the Kamajors were behind

us and they had dislodged us from some of our areas -

Zogoda and some other areas - and so I believe that that

was the reason why he said that."

Line 17:

"Q. What happened after the formation?

A. Well, he informed the senior officers that they should

tell all of us, the officers who were present, for us to

assemble at his place where he was staying so that we would

have an officers' meeting.

Q. Who was it that informed you to assemble at his place?

A. It was General Issa Sesay. All of us met there."

And then he continues:

"Where he was staying, the EMG ground", Executive Mansion

Ground, no doubt, "where he always stays - where he always stays,

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30558

that was where we met."

He goes on to mention that Foday Sankoh was present and

then he names others present: Bockarie - Colonel Bockarie,

Mosquito, Issa was there, Jungle was there, AB was there, FOC was

there, Jackson Swarray was there, and he goes on to name others.

Abubakar, so on and so forth. And then we come to this at page

9358:

"Q. Now, at the time meeting who spoke?

A. Well, Foday Sankoh spoke.

Q. What did he say?

A. Well, in the first place we saw him hand over his

satellite phone to Mr Bockarie, Sam Bockarie.

Q. When you say 'satellite', what is satellite?

A. Satellite. Satellite phone.

Q. Did he say anything when he handed the phone - the

satellite phone to Sam Bockarie?

A. Well, in the first place he told us that we should take

all orders from Sam Bockarie and at the same time he was

going on a political tour. He said he was going to Libya

and other areas. He said we should all take instructions

from Bockarie while Bockarie should be taking instructions

from Mr Ghankay. That was why he gave him that satellite

so that we would be having links."

Line 18:

"Q. Who is Mr Ghankay?

A. That is the NPFL leader, Charles Ghankay Taylor.

Q. Did he say anything else when he was at the meeting?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he say?

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30559

A. Well, he introduced Jungle to us as Mr Taylor's

representative for us there."

Note "introduced".

"Q. Did he refer to Jungle in any particular way?

A. Well, he said he was the Pa's representative. They had

been discussing that and so he was trying to introduce him

to us. He said he was Charles Ghankay Taylor's

representative, Jungle.

Q. Did Jungle say anything at the meeting?"

Let's pause there, Mr Taylor. Now, just to put this in

context, you recall after the signing of the Abidjan Peace

Accord, Sankoh did indeed return to RUF-controlled areas in

Sierra Leone to, in effect, quote unquote, sell the idea of the

peace agreement so his soldiers on the ground. Do you remember

that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. We have been told that by more than one witness how he

arrived by helicopter. Do you recall that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And had made various lightening visits. Now first of all,

were you aware - no, let me start before that. Up to that time -

and remember we are talking about - November 1996 is the signing

of the Abidjan peace accord.

A. Yes.

Q. Were you were you in contact with Foday Sankoh by satellite

phone?

A. Not at all, no.

Q. I ask for this reason: Were you aware that he had given

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30560

his satellite phone to Sam Bockarie?


Q. And I ask that in turn for this reason. At line 12:

"He said he was going to Libya and other areas. He said we

should all take instructions from Bockarie, while Bockarie should

be taking instructions from Mr Ghankay. That was why he gave him

that satellite so that we would be having links."

So he is giving Bockarie this satellite phone so that

Bockarie can receive orders from you. The unspoken conclusion is

you had already been in communication with him via this phone and

so it was a normal, agreed line of communication. Do you follow?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Now, what do you say about that, Mr Taylor?

A. I say this is awful. This is awful. What is going on?

This is totally awful. It's a lie and it's awful. Foday Sankoh

goes to Abidjan, and from testimony here he is given two

telephones and a fax machine. And Foday Sankoh goes back to -

based on testimony I have heard here - goes back to the region

for two reasons that have been told to this Court. The first

reason is to sell the peace agreement, but there is a second

reason. The second reason is to tell his people to get involved

in mining that they can raise material. That's the evidence

before this Court.

Q. You are talking about the Mohamed Talibi letters?

A. Exactly. So it's so awful that - it's so - it's horrific

that these people can put together these kind of lie. I don't

know how they do it. Foday Sankoh and I have no contact. Those

telephones are given him, and in fact I listened to testimony in

this Court that one of those telephones, if I am not mistaken,

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30561

was given to him by someone from International Alert, Dr Seboe.

I stand corrected on that. So here I am now, boom, Charles

Taylor back in the centre. How do I get a telephone to Foday

Sankoh when I am not involved in the entire process? I am a

member of the council of state in 1996 in Liberia. I am not

President of Liberia in 1996. I have nothing do with that peace

accord going on in that place. No contact. Foday Sankoh is down

there. We've introduced letters here exchanged between he and

Mohamed Talibi and monies that he has received and wanting more.

My God, what do I have to do with it that somebody now comes with

this blatant lie before this Court and say, Charles Taylor

gave - he gave Sam Bockarie a telephone that he would be in touch

with Ghankay. Total nonsense. It's not true, and it's awful

that these lies are just as diabolical as they are.

Q. Now, at this time, Mr Taylor, late 1996, were you aware of

a trip that Sankoh was proposing to make to Libya?

A. I had no contact with Sankoh. I had no knowledge of it.

None whatsoever. Absolutely none.

Q. Now, Mr Taylor, I want you to bear very much at the

forefront of your mind what we've heard about the origins of this

man Jungle. Now, bearing that in mind, we were being told by

this witness that in late 1996 Jungle was being introduced as

your representative. What do you say about that?

A. That is false. But we have already been told when Jungle

got cut off behind the line, we go all the way back to '92. So

Jungle now is invisible in that particular area all the while,

and mind you a principal - and I want to believe a principal

witness brought by this Prosecution - and I think one of the

witnesses that I am sure we will deal with - sat here - and I

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30562

can't mention the name because he is a protected witness - I can

just say he came very close to the end of the Prosecution's case,

said how Jungle got over there, and the introduction of Jungle by

Sam Bockarie to Foday Sankoh. Now, here is Foday Sankoh

introducing him to them, 1996, okay, after he had been with them

some four years. That figures.

Q. Now, Tongo Fields, Mr Taylor; what do you know about that

location in Sierra Leone?

A. Nothing whatsoever.

Q. You have heard testimony in this Court and evidence

generally that it's a major diamond mining area in Sierra Leone,

haven't you?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. Well, help me. This witness says, page 9369, that he was

involved in an operation to capture Tongo Fields and he was asked

this at line 11 on page 9369:

"Q. After you captured the place Tongo Field and you were

the commander of that mission, did you speak to anyone

about the fact that you had accomplished the mission?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who did you speak to?

A. Mr Bockarie.

Q. And what was said?

A. When I spoke - well, all of us went on the mission. He

thanked us a lot.

Q. Were you thanked by anybody else apart from Sam

Bockarie?

A. Well, that was later. Later we received praises and

thanks. That was at the time that we were based there,

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Page 30563

when we told Mr Taylor that we have captured so and so.

Q. What do you mean by 'so and so'?

A. When we captured - after we had based we

informed - first we informed Johnny Paul and he thanked us

and later he informed Mr Taylor."

What do you say, Mr Taylor?

A. I never spoke to Johnny Paul Koroma throughout. The first

time I got in contact or spoke personally voice to Johnny Paul

Koroma was in August 1999, that I, Charles Ghankay Taylor, ever

spoke to Johnny Paul Koroma. First time. And that was in

relations to arrangements to have him taken from his

incarceration in Sierra Leone and brought to Liberia. Never

ever, ever spoke to Johnny Paul Koroma.

Q. Not according to this witness, Mr Taylor, because the

witness continues, line 28:

"Q. How do you know that later Johnny Paul Koroma informed

Mr Taylor? How do you know that?

A. No, it was not Johnny Paul who informed Mr Taylor. It

was Sam Bockarie, Sam Bockarie. The first information went

to Johnny Paul that we had accomplished the mission. It

was later that Sam Bockarie did this.

Q. How do you know that he did that?

A. Well, it was through a satellite phone for them to have

links. That was why Foday Sankoh had come with that

satellite phone.

Q. So when you say it was through a satellite phone, what

happened with the satellite phone in relation to the

accomplishment of the mission?

A. Well, they communicated. They communicated. Because a

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30564

satellite phone, they did not talk - he did not talk with

Johnny Paul through the satellite phone. The satellite

phone was just between himself and Mr Taylor.

Q. Who is the 'himself'?

A. Sam Bockarie.

Q. And did you hear Sam Bockarie talking on that satellite

phone to Mr Taylor?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did Sam Bockarie say?

A. Well, he said we have captured the mining area, which

is Tongo Field. And so the Pa too - we were close to

him - he thanked him a lot.

Q. Who thanked him?

A. Pa Taylor.

Q. When you say 'we were close to him', what do you mean

by that?

A. We were in a room, that was Sam Bockarie's room, where

this communication was going on.

Q. And you said he was thanked. Could you hear the voice

on the other end of the phone?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How were you able to hear that voice?

A. Well, it was not the voice that mattered, because at

that time we were all doing things in common and so they

were not hiding most of the things from me. So they told

me - he told me that he was talking to Mr Taylor and Jungle

too was there.

Q. Who told you that he had been talking to Mr Taylor?

A. Sam Bockarie.

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Page 30565

Q. You said that Jungle too was there. What was Jungle

doing?

A. Well, always Jungle was by the commanders. As long

- because he was introduced to us as the Pa's

representative. He was always with the top commanders,

from one commander to another.

Q. Now you said that the civilians were doing the mining

and they were not doing it voluntarily. Did you ever see a

civilian who did not wish to do mining?

A. Yes, it used to happen."

Now, Mr Taylor, there are a couple issues of there I want

to tax you with. The first is this: Do you recall an occasion

when you spoke to Sam Bockarie on a satellite phone and

congratulated him on the capture of Tongo Fields?

A. No, never did. Never did.

Q. Secondly, by implication, the sting in the tail of this

account is this: The telephone conversation is associated with

knowledge of slave labour being used for the mining in Tongo

Fields. Do you get it?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Were you aware that slave labour was being used by the RUF

to mine diamonds in Tongo Fields, or anywhere else in Sierra

Leone for that matter?


Q. Did you order such a thing?

A. No, never did.

Q. Did you, with knowledge that such things were happening,

acquiesce or condone such behaviour?

A. No, no. But maybe to just maybe help for the context of

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30566

this, the reference here to a report being made to Johnny Paul

Koroma but Sam Bockarie conveying that to me, I'm not sure - it

does not reflect the time but in my head, and probably this could

help, what this witness is referring to now, it could be proper

to assume that we are talking about prior to February 1998. I am

saying this because February 1998 is the intervention, so the

control of Johnny Paul Koroma where somebody would report to him,

we know it ceases after the intervention. So I'm not sure - I

don't know when this so-called Tongo Field is supposed to be

captured. So that means it is captured in 1997 or up to February

of 1998.

Now, we would have to probably look at it because to unpack

these people's lies we have to look at it very seriously because

he is talking about Tongo Field and a report to Johnny Paul

Koroma, who Johnny Paul Koroma congratulates everybody and then

Sam Bockarie passes the message. And the intervention occurs in

February of 1998. So what he is talking about now must occur in

1997. I can't reflect off the top of my head now when this Tongo

operation occurs, whether it is post February 1998. It may help

us to unpack this lie. I know nothing about this, but just in

terms of how he has given this lie and my knowledge of the

testimony that has been given here in assigning dates, we may

unpack this by determining when this Tongo operation is supposed

to go on because that means that Johnny Paul Koroma must be in

control where he congratulates everybody and that's got to be

before February 1998.

But in the direct answer to your question, it is no to all

of them. I did not order. I did not condone. I knew nothing

about any Tongo operation. Neither did Sam Bockarie call me at

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30567

that time. I don't know if Sam Bockarie - he is alleging here

that Sam Bockarie had a telephone but let me just reflect on

another thing. Don't let's forget, this witness claims that

Foday Sankoh returns from - that's around November.

Q. Abidjan?

A. Yeah, from Abidjan of 1996 and asks everybody to pay

attention to Sam Bockarie as the commander. So that means Sam

Bockarie - and I know based on testimony given here, he does

leave a fax and a telephone with Sam Bockarie, definitely not

from me. But I am not aware of what is going on in Sierra Leone

at this particular time. No, I am not.

Q. Again, Mr Taylor, for completeness, we need to look at, and

I hope we can deal with this briefly, two specific allegations

made by this witness in relation to you and diamonds, okay? And

let's try and do it as quickly as possible because we have dealt

with this diamond issue ad nauseam. Page 9380, and he is dealing

with the mining in Tongo Fields. Line 8:

"The first diamond that we had, we took that diamond and

brought it to Mr Bockarie.

Q. What did Bockarie do with the diamond?

A. Well, he called me, Jungle, JR and Lion, we all

assembled at his place."

Line 25:

"Q. And what happened to the diamond?

A. Well, we showed the diamond to Sam Bockarie. All of us

were present and he thanked us a lot. That was the

diamond. We counted those diamonds, parceled them and the

diamonds were taken to Liberia."


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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30568

"I said we parceled them and we wrote the total on the

paper.

Q. What was the total?

A. The first one was 43" - specific number - "pieces of

diamond.

Q. What happened to the package?

A. Well, Mr Bockarie called Mr Taylor and informed him

about the work that we had done. He told him about the

total and he too told him that we should hand them over to

Jungle who would in turn travel with them.

Q. How did he talk to Mr Taylor?

A. Well, he sent a satellite. They spoke through a

satellite phone.

Q. Could you hear Mr Taylor's voice?

A. Yes, because a satellite phone is not like the other

communication. When people are conversing you will know.

And he told us that he had contacted him, so the two of

them were talking.

Q. Did you hear what Mr Taylor said?

A. Yes, he thanked him a lot and he told him to hand over

the diamond to Jungle who would be able to travel with it.

Q. Did he hand over the diamond to Jungle?

A. Yes, when we handed the diamond over to Jungle they

gave the - they handed over the mic to Jungle and Jungle

confirmed the total to him.

Q. To who?

A. To Mr Taylor."

Package, 43 diamonds, Mr Taylor; yes or no?

A. No. But, counsel, there is something interesting here. I

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30569

know we don't want to deal with it, but there is something - I

think we have to attach some time. We are talking about Tongo

and he has just said previously that Johnny Paul had

congratulated them, but the congratulatory message was passed to

me by Sam Bockarie. So this demonstrates some control on the

part of Johnny Paul Koroma. He is in authority somewhere. So I

think - because, you know, it's a matter of credibility how they

put together these lies.

Let me inform this Court, any human being on this planet

who from these Sierra Leonean people come here saying that he

explained earlier that Sam Bockarie is in his room and making a

satellite phone call is on something. I don't know what he is

smoking, because nobody on these satellite phones can make a

satellite phone call from in your bedroom. It's a lie. That's

the first lie.

The second lie - now, what would be Johnny Paul's role in

this thing? So Sam Bockarie now just takes the diamonds and he

sends it away. Who is in authority over there? So you can see

how the lie unravels, okay. They are supposed to be with these

diamonds. Does Johnny Paul Koroma know anything about these

diamonds? So Sam Bockarie takes the diamonds and he sends it off

by a Jungle to me. I mean, who is in control at this time?

Because if we are saying that - because we know from this Court

that Johnny Paul is humiliated, okay, shortly after he arrives.

The humiliation occurs when Johnny Paul Koroma is arrested, strip

searched and the diamonds taken away from him and he is put into

incarceration.

So my head logically will be telling me that if Johnny Paul

is playing any substantive role in what this witness is talking

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30570

about it has got to be before he is humiliated. It's got to be

before February of 1998. So if he is in control, that means that

Sam Bockarie is acting ultra vires to what is expected in this

organisation. So this lie cannot stand. It's a lie, okay, that

Sam Bockarie would send me diamonds. There is really no such

thing going on. And based on his own analysis, his statements of

what's going on, it has to be a fabrication. That's all it is.

Q. And we can get some further assistance as to timing,

Mr Taylor, because the witness talks on the same page about the

means by which Jungle, the messenger, carried these diamonds.

Line 12:

"Q. What did he do after he confirmed the total" - that

being Jungle?

"A. Well, he told him that he should move with it.

Q. Move where?

A. Liberia, because Foya was always the station.

Q. The station for what?

A. That was where the helicopter would pick him up to

Monrovia.

Q. Do you know whether Jungle left Tongo Fields?

A. Yes, Jungle left with an escort. Mr Bockarie gave

somebody, that is CO Lion, who escorted him up to Foya.

Q. Do you know where he went after Foya?

A. Well, Lion stopped there. I was there when a

helicopter picked him up and Lion returned and met us in

Tongo.

Q. So you also went to Foya?

A. At that time, no, I was in Tongo?"

So that's occasion number one. So Tongo Fields, Bockarie

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30571

sends 43 pieces of diamonds transported to you by helicopter in

the safe hands of Colonel Jungle, and you say that didn't happen,

Mr Taylor, yes?

A. It definitely did not. Look, if this Prosecution produces

any evidence to this Court that my government, after being

elected in July 1997, going into the time that Johnny Paul Koroma

up to February 1998, had a helicopter, I submit my guilt. Total

lies. The Government of Liberia did not even have a bee, not to

let's talk about a helicopter. A blatant, blatant - just even on

the assertion that there is a helicopter going to pick up

diamonds from Tongo that Johnny Paul has already congratulated

people for capturing Tongo is total, outright nonsense. A lie.

That's all it is. That's all it is.

Q. Very well. Well, let's deal with the second allegation

regarding diamonds so far as this witness is concerned, shall we.

Page 9383, line 7:

"Q. Was there ever another occasion when RUF diamonds were

handed over to Sam Bockarie?

A. Yes, during that month that I was there it happened

twice when we brought diamonds to Sam Bockarie.

Q. You've told us about one time. I want to ask you to

tell us about the second time it happened. This time how

many diamonds were involved?

A. Well, the second one we met - by the time Jungle came

back we had got 18 pieces. Among them we had a big one,

which was not among the 43 that was first taken.

Q. So you had 18 pieces, including a big diamond. What

did you do with the 18 pieces?

A. Well, it was the same procedure. When Jungle came the

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30572

diamonds were shown to him at Mr Bockarie's place, because

he too wherever - when he was doing it he would have a

witness and they will be around when he does the handing

over.

Q. Who would have a witness?

A. He, Bockarie. He did not do it alone.

Q. Did you do anything to those 18 diamonds?

A. Yes, we parceled it just like we did the first one, we

wrote the total on it and we followed the same procedure as

the first one.

Q. Were there any calls made on this occasion?

A. Yes, it's the same way. Mr Bockarie informed Mr Taylor

and he told him the total and Jungle too confirmed the

total.

Q. Could you hear this particular conversation?

A. Yes, sir, all five us of us were in the same place. He

told us that he was calling Mr Taylor and they were

conversing. They were talking.

Q. When you say all five of you, who was there? Who were

the five?

A. I was there, Mosquito was there, Jungle was there, Lion

and Junior Vandi, who was Sankoh's bodyguard attached to

Mosquito.

Q. What happened after the calls to Charles Taylor?

A. Well, they explained the same thing to him that they

have got so and so amount and that we've parceled it. Then

he said they should give the parcel to Jungle, so they

thanked the man a lot that he should keep it up.

Q. Who thanked the man?

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30573

A. Mr Taylor.

Q. And which man did he thank?

A. Sam Bockarie.

Q. And was the parcel given to Jungle?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did Jungle do with the parcel?

A. He was given the same escort to the border."

And then he goes on to say that - well, we needn't trouble

with that.

Now, Mr Taylor, what's your answer to that second occasion

within a month?

A. It never happened. Never. It's a lie. We listened to

another witness here, I think earlier during the week, explaining

Bockarie in late 1998 taking diamonds, but he could not see me

and he left it to be turned over for material that he could not

get when he went. Here is another witness now saying that this

is far earlier, and still we do not know the period that he is

talking about. But there is no such thing about no 40 - now 18 -

pieces of diamond coming with somebody called Jungle. That's

totally, totally false. Totally false.

Q. Well, Mr Taylor, if we just pause and just take stock for a

moment. Bockarie was bringing you diamonds, not always

successfully because on one occasion he didn't meet you. Issa

Sesay brought you diamonds, although he lost them. Jungle was

bringing you diamonds, and other named individuals were bringing

you diamonds at the same time.

A. Eddie Kanneh.

Q. Yes. What did you do with them, Mr Taylor?

A. There was nobody bringing me any diamonds. I don't know

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30574

how they got these people awfully and shamefully to put these

lies together. Not one of them, the Eddie Kanneh or the Issa

Sesay, nobody, no human being in Sierra Leone - and mind you, all

of these people that are talking about these diamonds were never

there when they were presented, but they were presented according

to them. So - now Jungle is supposed to bring them. Jungle is

dead. So maybe those that are alive, if they are brave enough to

come to the Court, will be able to tell the truth. But I never

received diamonds from any human being in Sierra Leone. Never.

Q. Very well. Let's briefly look at another version of a

topic which we are now familiar with, Mr Taylor. Let's look at

page 9395, line 2:

"A. Well, he", that being Sam Bockarie, "left us in Sierra

Leone and went to Monrovia and we were - we used to call

him Colonel Bockarie and then he came with two

promotions and those were high promotions. He was called general

now, he and Issa Sesay, and he said it was

President Taylor, Pa Taylor, who gave them that promotion.

Q. What did he tell you about the second thing he told

you, the command structure between you said 'us and the

AFRC'?

A. Well, it he made it clear to all, that being Sam

Bockarie, all the AFRC men who were present that AFRC was

no longer in power and that where we had now come it was

called the Jungle and that everybody was supposed to be

under the RUF command and that the RUF - anywhere the RUF

was serving as a commander the AFRC should serve as a

deputy."

So we can place this. This is after the intervention?

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30575

A. That's it. That's what I am saying.

Q. You promote Bockarie to general, didn't you, Mr Taylor?

A. No, I did not.

Q. And you were handing out these promotions willy-nilly?

A. No.

Q. Because Issa Sesay at the same time was promoted, wasn't

it - according to this - by you?

A. That never happened, and then it conflicts very seriously

with testimony before this Court that those promotions were made

by Johnny Paul Koroma after he retreated from Sierra Leone - from

Freetown in February 1998, Johnny Paul Koroma held a meeting and

he made these promotions in which Sam Bockarie became, well, the

chief of defence staff in Sierra Leone. Now he is attributing

that to me. Never, ever gave any suggestion or recommendation

for any promotion or anything closely related to that in Sierra

Leone. Never did.

Q. Well, according to this witness, Mr Taylor, your hand in

this was much greater than you are letting on to us, because he

goes on to say this.

"Q. What did Sam Bockarie say about the role of Jungle at

the meeting?

A. Well, he put it clear to Pa Paul, Pa Johnny Paul, that

that was the man who the leader had introduced to us to be

Pa Ghankay's own representative in the RUF territory. So

he was the person that always linked us to Pa Taylor and he

wanted them to know that for them to recognise him.

Q. Who did he want? Who is 'them'? Who did he want to

know that?

A. Well, the new men that joined us, that is the AFRC

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30576

group, Johnny Paul and his men."

Now, Mr Taylor, I thought you had been in touch with Johnny

Paul Koroma during the period of the junta?

A. Never. That's I mean. Never, never been in touch during

the period of the Jungle.

Q. So help me then. Why hadn't you told Johnny Paul, during

the course of that communication, that Jungle was your

representative? Why hadn't you told him that?

A. Because I am not in touch with him. Just not in touch with

him. That's a part of the lie. Never in touch with him. And

like you say, if I am in touch with him, of course I will be:

Well, listen, Johnny Paul, you are in there now. My man on the

ground is Jungle. That would be logically what one would expect.

No, I don't do that if I am in touch with him all that time.

Only at this particular time now, there is someone in a meeting

after he comes out to say: Oh, guess what? Here is a man.

There is no such thing. No such thing.

Q. And it goes on at page 9396:

"Another thing you said was discussed at the meeting was

the Fitti-Fatta mission."

Now, bear in mind, Mr Taylor, this is after the

intervention, yes?

A. Yes.

Q. "What was said about that particular mission?

A. Well, he said he would want us to go and clear the

mining area, that is Kono, and that the Pa had told him

that nothing goes for nothing and that he had no machine to

make arms, that they were materials. He also bought them

from some other areas. So he said - he said we should go

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30577

and capture the mining area so that we would be able to get

money from there and get the materials.

Q. Just so it's clear who is this person, the Pa, that you

just referred to?

A. That is Mr Taylor - Mr Charles Taylor. Former

President Taylor."

Now, Mr Taylor, what about that? You, in effect, ordered

the Fitti-Fatta mission, the capture of Kono, and the reason for

it is quite plain and simple: I'm not giving you arms for free.

If you need them, you are going to have to pay for them. The

only way you are going to pay is diamonds, so capture Kono.

That's the reasoning. What do you say?

A. Yes. Totally no. It's false. But you can see the

falsehood, how it develops. It's on the basis that there is

material, and so that's how it's going. There is no such thing.

So there is Fitti-Fatta now, so this is supposed to be around

about what? March, April 1998. Because now Johnny Paul is

already up-country and this operation is supposed to be going on.

There is no such thing. I have no knowledge and/or involvement

in this thing. And diamonds must come in because it has to be

proven that diamonds are going to Charles Taylor when he is

supposed to produce material, only that there are no materials in

Monrovia. So the whole diamond thing falls like a house of cards

because there is no materials, and they should have known that

there is no material in Monrovia for anyone.

So you can say maybe: Oh, well, he took the diamonds and

didn't provide the material. But to say that Taylor took

diamonds and provided materials; total lies. Total lies.

Q. Before we move on, Mr Taylor, we note from the passage when

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Page 30578

according to this witness you gave orders for Fitti-Fatta, yes?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, the witness continues in this vein, same page 9396,

and remember this is a meeting the witness is talking about, the

famous Waterworks meeting following the intervention, yes?

A. Yes.

Q. "Q. Another thing that you said was discussed at the

meeting was Sam Bockarie's travel to Burkina Faso with

General Ibrahim, is that right? Was that discussed at the

meeting?

A. Yes, yes, yes, we discussed that.

Q. What did Sam Bockarie say about that?

A. He said that Mr Taylor told him that he would link him

in with Blaise Compaore, the President of Burkina Faso, and

it was Mr Ibrahim Bah who was going to travel with him. He

was to move with him.

Q. Move with him where?

A. To Burkina Faso.

Q. Did Sam Bockarie say when this was to take place?

A. Well, he did say that it was not going to take a long

time and it was going to be in the same month. After the

month that we held the meeting, after the Fitti-Fatta

operation, then he moved on this mission."

Now, Mr Taylor, as far as you're aware, when did Sam

Bockarie travel to Burkina Faso in company with, inter alia,

Ibrahim Bah?

A. November late, early December 1998.

Q. Yes. And remind us, when was the intervention?

A. February 1998.

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Page 30579

Q. And this meeting in the Waterworks?

A. This had to be somewhere around February/March 1998.

Q. According to the witness, Bockarie was going on this

mission in the same month, yes?

A. Yes.

Q. Are you aware of Bockarie travelling to Burkina Faso, you

having set up the connection, on any other occasion other than

late November 1998?

A. No, I am not aware of that. And if he did, he didn't come

through Liberia.

Q. Now, on the same topic he continued, 9397, line 22:

"Q. Did Sam Bockarie say why Charles Taylor was going to

link him to Burkina Faso - send him to Burkina Faso?

A. Yes, because he said he told him about the mission that

we would take to free the leader and it was a mission that

involved heavy materials because we were supposed to clear

the ECOMOG force before we get to Freetown, so he said he

was going to link us up where we would be able to get

direct material so that we would bring them over and be

able to run the mission.

Q. When he referred to this mission to free the leader,

what mission was he referring to?

A. Well, that was Operation Free the Leader and that was

the material he went for for us to come and run the mission

to capture Freetown and free the leader."

And then he goes on to say that this Waterworks meeting

lasted for some eight hours. Now, Mr Taylor, again we have

another witness linking you to the forward planning behind the

Freetown invasion, do you follow?

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Page 30580

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Now, on this version, what you do is this, and I am putting

it in simple terms to give you an opportunity of dealing with it.

You link Bockarie with Blaise Compaore because for the capture of

Freetown a lot of material will be required. Bockarie travels to

Burkina Faso where the desire for sufficient material is met and

it is that material which is used in Operation Free the Leader.

You follow that, don't you?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And you were the one who, through your contacts,

facilitated that. Do you follow me?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. What do you say about that, Mr Taylor?

A. It's a lie. But, you know, the logic of this thing is why

do - I mean, I have material in Liberia. Mind you, I have been

delivering this material, so why at this particular time I have

to go outside and get somebody else if --

Q. You'd probably run out, Mr Taylor. You had been sending so

much, you see, you'd run out?

A. But, mind you, I am supposed to also be delivering in 1999.

I am supposed to be delivering material up to 1999 where there

are other operations that I am sending. There is an unending

supply of ammunition. So that's the way the lies go. I mean, I

am supposed to hook him up. These people had some well planned

people outside. Don't forget Ibrahim Bah who they keep talking

about. Where is Ibrahim Bah living at this time? Ibrahim Bah is

living in Burkina Faso. Evidence before this Court, he comes

from Burkina Faso to meet Foday Sankoh in 1996 in Abidjan. When

the junta comes to power, he goes to Freetown according to

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Page 30581

evidence led in this Court. So if there is any hook up, I am the

only one to hook up. Am I in command of Blaise Compaore that I

would link them and Blaise is supposed to send this heavy amount

of material? I don't know how they made it up, but I did not

link Sam Bockarie up with Blaise Compaore. They made their own

contacts and that was the contact that had been explained that

granted them with ECOWAS and the United Nations freeing up a few

of them to travel to where they wanted to go and that's how they

made their contacts. So that is totally false.

Q. Let's move to page 9424. Now the witness is speaking of a

second meeting at Sam Bockarie's house in Buedu. This is after

he had obtained arms from Burkina Faso and this was a meeting in

mid-December 1998 and he says this, page 9424, line 1:

"When Mr Bockarie came he called on us because there was no

need for him to call all the officers again. So those of

us who were close to his location, he invited us. We came

to Buedu and then he explained to us that he has brought

ammunition, he has brought enough logistics so that we will

be able to run any kind of mission. So he said we should

now plan how to take the move and that the first target

should be Kono, to Makeni, up to Freetown. And then the

next target should be Segbwema and Daru, that is heading

towards Kenema, and to go to the southern province. So

those were the things we discussed and the issue of

SAJ Musa's disloyalty that he has been doing all along.

That was also something we discussed.

Q. When you say the first target should be Kono to Makeni

up to Freetown, what do you mean by that the first target

was to be Kono?

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Page 30582

A. Well, Kono is a mining area. In that whole country

that is the place we know for high level productivity for

diamonds, so we believed that if we were able to capture

there first it would have been good for us. That was the

reason why Kono - he said Kono should serve as the first

target that we should capture.

Q. Were any particular commanders given the role of

capturing Kono?

A. Well, yes.

Q. Who?

A. Well, Sam Bockarie told us that this plan was designed

in Monrovia with Mr Taylor. He said it was designed in

Monrovia so he only brought it to brief us, that that

should be the way we should do things so that we will be

able to succeed in the war."

Plan hatched in Monrovia, Mr Taylor?

A. That sounds like legal language to me. It sounds like

legal. This whole response sounds like very, very, very legal

language; the whole thing was planned and designed there in

Monrovia. It was designed in Monrovia, so he brought us the

brief. This sound like legal language. He was really put

together. He was really put together with this lie. And nobody

designed or planned nothing. I did not know about what was going

on in Sierra Leone. Never met Sam Bockarie. Never knew what

they were doing in Sierra Leone about no invasion of Sierra Leone

or Freetown to put anything together. And whoever put this lie

together, it's just a lie. That's all it is.

Q. Well, Mr Taylor, based on the suggestion being made by the

witness, let me ask one or two questions. Firstly, were you

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30583

aware of this issue of SAJ Musa's disloyalty?

A. No, never knew of SAJ Musa. Never heard of him, no.

Q. Well, when you were designing the move to Freetown,

Mr Taylor, did you not advise Sam Bockarie as to what to do about

such an important issue as SAJ Musa's disloyalty?

A. No, never.

Q. Why didn't you?

A. Because I never spoke to him about it, about any of the

things that they were doing.

Q. Because you see when we go on to page 9426 it appears that

that particular issue loomed quite large at the time. Line 18:

"After the meeting" - this is the meeting he has just

described - "but there had been arguments even before the

meeting, before this mission there had been an argument. Just at

the time Sam Bockarie sent the message to all the stations, right

from that time SAJ Musa was not happy about it. He was

disgruntled right up to this mission time and after they had held

the meeting he sent the same order to SAJ Musa and he refused

even before the Kono thing."

Why were you allowing this to happen, having spent so much

time designing this mission, Mr Taylor?

A. I knew nothing about it, so that's a fabrication. So it's

not that something I would let happen or not let happen. I don't

even know what they are doing in Sierra Leone.

Q. Because it continues, you see, over the page on page 9427,

line 3:

"Q. Now the second issue that you said was discussed at

the meeting was SAJ Musa.

A. Yes.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30584

Q. What was it about SAJ Musa that was discussed at the

meeting?

A. Well, Sam Bockarie told us that the complaint had gone

up to Mr Taylor, that the man's complaint had been lodged

about his disloyalty towards the mission, and he too gave

his own piece of advice.

Sam Bockarie lodged a complaint to Mr Taylor against

SAJ Musa record regarding his attitude. He said he was a

man who did not take any order from people who is disloyal

to the command.

Q. At the meeting was there any other discussion about

SAJ Musa?

A. Yes, Mr Bockarie made us to understand that that man

should not live to tell the story." That's SAJ Musa.

And over the page, line 8:

"He said he should go all out to ensure that the man should

not live to tell the story."

So, according to this, Mr Taylor, SAJ Musa's disloyalty was

brought to your attention when you're planning the meeting. So I

am asking you again: What did you do about it?

A. I did not know what was going on, so I couldn't have done

anything about it. I have no idea about what man is talking

about me giving - receiving a complaint on SAJ Musa. I have no

idea of what this witness is talking about. Because no such

thing occurred, whether it is a message from - or complaint from

Sam Bockarie or nothing. I have no idea what is going on. None.

PRESIDING JUDGE: That might be a good time, Mr Griffiths.

MR GRIFFITHS: Very well.

PRESIDING JUDGE: We will break for lunch now and resume at

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30585

2.30.

[Lunch break taken at 2.30 p.m.]

[Upon resuming at 2.30 p.m.]

PRESIDING JUDGE: Ms Hollis?

MS HOLLIS: Mr President, we simply notice a change of

appearance for the Prosecution this afternoon. Mr Santora is not

with us this afternoon.

PRESIDING JUDGE: Thank you. That's noted.

MR GRIFFITHS:

Q. Right, Mr Taylor, we're continuing with the same witness,

Karmoh Kanneh. Now, you recall before the luncheon adjournment

we were looking at various things said by this witness to have

occurred during a meeting at Sam Bockarie's address. Now, he

tells us at page 9429, testimony of 9 May 2008, that that

meeting, line 20, took place on a night, line 27, in December

1998. Now, he went on to suggest this, and I'm looking now at

page 9431 - yes, he says this, dealing with the plan which you

had designed in Monrovia, do you follow?

A. Yes.

Q. Line 2:

"Q. And what leader was to be released from Pademba Road?

A. Foday Sankoh.

Q. The person Jungle who you discussed yesterday, was he

at this meeting?

A. Yes, yes, he was part of this 12-man meeting.

Q. Did Jungle speak to the meeting?

A. Yes, later after the plan had gone on Sam Bockarie

spoke to Mr Taylor about the plan, how the mission was to

carry on."

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30586

Line 16:

"A. They briefed President Taylor, the former President,

about the plan, how it was set. After that Jungle too

buttressed the same topic to him, how the plan had been

made, and he in turn thanked them and told them to carry on

and that he said he would pray that the mission would be

successful."

Over the page on the same note, line 5:

"Q. What did Jungle say in the meeting?

A. Well, in the first place, Jungle himself told us about

the material that Mr Bockarie had brought and that we

should not fear this time round and that there was no force

that could withstand us. That was what he said in the

meeting. And he said he had discussed it with the Pa in

Monrovia even before they came.

Q. And did he say what the Pa had said in Monrovia?

A. Yes, it was just what Sam Bockarie told us. He just

spoke about the same issues Sam Bockarie had spoken about,

that the Pa had said our first target should be Kono before

we should proceed."

And then the learned judge, her Honour Judge Sebutinde

asked: "Well, Mr Taylor was not in the meeting." And Ms Baly

responded:

"I know, your Honour, the questions I have asked you are

about what Jungle said in the meeting and you've told us that

Jungle said he had some discussion with the Pa in Monrovia about

the plan."

Then this response, line 26:

"A. Yes, that is what I explained. I said they were the

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30587

ones who came, so he told us about the materials that had

been brought for the mission and that the Pa - that they

had discussed with the Pa how the mission should go. That

is Pa Taylor."


"Q. Now, apart from Jungle telling you that he had

discussed the plan with the Pa in Monrovia, did Jungle say

anything else at that meeting?

A. Well, that is what he said. That is what he said."

Now, Mr Taylor, you understand now, don't you, this is

evidence which attaches you with direct complicity in the

Freetown invasion? You appreciate that, don't you?

A. Yes.

Q. You are - based on the testimony of this witness, you will

be depicted in due course undoubtedly as the architect of that

design. Do you follow?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Were you?

A. No, I was not.

Q. Now, on the same note, the testimony continues in this way,

line 13, page 9434:

"Q. You gave some evidence earlier when you used the

phrase 'they briefed President Taylor'?

A. Yes, yes. After the meeting and during the meeting are

not the same questions. I spoke about after the meeting

and after the meeting everybody went to bed.

Q. Who briefed President Taylor?"

Line 25:

"A. First it was Sam Bockarie, he held the phone and spoke

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Page 30588

to the Pa. He briefed him about the arrangement we had

done about the mission and later Jungle himself went on the

same phone and spoke on the same topic to President Taylor

that we had arranged everything to run the mission.

Q. Where was this phone?

A. It was the same veranda at the back of Mr Bockarie's

house. The veranda at the back. That was where the phone

was.

Q. What type of phone was it?

A. It was a satellite phone."

So, Mr Taylor, just so we understand the sequence of

events, Bockarie goes to Monrovia. You link him to Blaise

Compaore. He comes back with a lot of material. You then make a

plan with him, a plan which involves the capture of Kono, Kenema,

Makeni, Lunsar and in due course Freetown. Bockarie goes back to

his redoubt in Kailahun province where he holds a meeting in

mid-December. Having briefed everyone on the discussions he had

with you and assured them that they were now in possession of the

necessary material, he then calls you on the satellite phone,

discusses the matters with you and also with your agent, Jungle.

That in a nutshell is the scenario described. Mr Taylor, in

December 1998, were you so engaged?

A. No, I was not. I was not. And in fact, the whole thing is

just - it's just very, very, very painful. The man - if this

account is true, Blaise Compaore, President of a country,

chairman of the OAU, is supposed to give the RUF a large amount

of arms and ammunition and doesn't know what it's for - if the

story is true. It is only Taylor who - so they just go there and

Blaise said: Well, here's some arms and ammunition. A whole

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Page 30589

lot, if this account is correct. And Taylor sits down and he - I

didn't plan any operation or nothing with them. Never did.

Never did. It's beyond me. It's beyond my comprehension how -

how these people manage this. I don't understand it. I don't

understand it. I do not understand it. I never under this

heavens, under this - on this planet with Charles Taylor sitting

down arranging for someone to go to a grown man like Blaise

Compaore, just go there, hook you up, got there, get ammunition,

come in, sit down. I don't know Sierra Leone. I have never -

besides going to Freetown to see Joseph Momoh earlier, I don't

know any other part of this place. We sit down and plan and do

this and that; it never happened. But, I mean, how they get them

to come here and say this, it beats me. It beats me. I swear I

don't know.

Q. Now in addition - because some of this witness's evidence

was not dealt with in chronological order, the witness also at a

later stage in his testimony spoke of events earlier in 1998, and

I begin at page 9448, line 1:

"A. I had a call from our high command who was Sam

Bockarie who called me at his base in Buedu.

Q. What did Sam Bockarie say to you?

A. He said Pa Taylor was to send some ammunition for the

RUF, that we were to go and collect it.

Q. Did he say to you why you were selected to go and

collect it?

A. Well, one of the reasons was that I was one of the

commanders in that Kailahun area where he was based and the

second was I had a vehicle. That was the reason why I was

involved in that ammunition issue.

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Page 30590

Q. What kind of vehicle did you have at that time?

A. I had a Land Rover.

Q. What did you do after the phone call you had with Sam

Bockarie?

A. When he called me he told me that ammunition was to be

brought to Foya, so we should go and collect it and I was

happy because if you are fighting a war and you are without

material that is not good. But if there is material that

is a success to you.

Q. What did you do? What action did you take?

A. So I joined him and we travelled. We took his two

jeeps that he had and mine and we moved to Foya.

Q. Who did you join?

A. Mosquito. I joined Mosquito.

Q. And you said, 'We took his two jeeps that he had and

mine and we moved to Foya', so how many jeeps went to Foya?

A. Three. Three vehicles.

Q. And who were the people that went to Foya?

A. I went - the two of us went with few of his security

men.

Q. What did you do when you got to Foya?

A. Well at that time we went but the helicopter had not

arrived yet."

Note, helicopter, Mr Taylor?

A. Yes.

Q. "Because the helicopter was to bring the materials and we

went to the commander.

Q. Who was the commander that you went to?

A. One Commander Joseph.

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Page 30591

Q. Where was this Commander Joseph?

A. In Foya near the roundabout. We were based there until

my commander told me to wait until the helicopter would

land and we will go to the field."

There was then a break. Now, later he goes on to say that

he took the materials to his base at Bayama and these were

materials that Sam Bockarie gave him out of that assignment,

those being specifically AK rounds and RPG rockets, and then he

spoke of another occasion when he made such a trip to pick up

arms and ammunition, and this is page 9458:

"Q. When was this second occasion?

A. That was in 1998 still."

So note, Mr Taylor, a helicopter, 1998 still.

"Q. When abouts in 1998?

A. Well, after this mission because this other one was

around March to April, it was not too long. It was a short

time. That was the time ULIMO and LURD forces invaded

Lofa.

Q. At the time that the ULIMO and LURD forces invaded

Lofa, where were you?

A. I was in Baiima with my battalion.

Q. And how did you become involved on that occasion in

obtaining the arms and ammunition?

A. The commander called me again - that is Mosquito - at

the same place, Buedu, and explained the issue to me, that

that was what the Pa had told him that those men had

invaded his men at Lofa County."

Q. And who was that person?

A. Mr Taylor."

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Page 30592

So, Mr Taylor, twice in earlyish 1998 you send war materiel

by helicopter to Foya to be picked up by Sam Bockarie for use in

Sierra Leone. Is that true?

A. Totally false. That is not true. But this guy goes

further. He has a telephone too, so he's big in this

organisation. He has a telephone. 9448, line 16 he talks about

a telephone conversation that he holds with Sam Bockarie. So we

have another telephone over there. Sam Bockarie is not the only

one with this other lie. 16.

Q. Yes, I've got it.

"Q. What kind of vehicle did you have at the time?

A. I had a Land Rover.

Q. What did you do after the phone call you had with Sam

Bockarie?"

A. So he's talking with Sam Bockarie. See what I mean? He

has a phone, because you can't talk on one phone after the

phone - so even he has a phone now. So maybe there's a second

satellite, just like all the many other lies. It's just

incredible. I don't know how to respond to all of this except

just say it plainly, that it is totally unfounded of what this

gentleman is explaining here to the point of holding telephone

conversations with Bockarie and getting instructions. I don't

know, it's just - it's not true. It's not true.

Q. Now, the witness was asked for further clarification

regarding these shipments of arms. Page 9451, line 18:

"Q. Can I take you back to just before the break. You

said you had gone to Foya and you went to a person by the

name of Commander Joseph near a roundabout at the main

junction. Can I ask you do you know this person Commander

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Page 30593

Joseph's full name?

A. No, that is the name I knew for him, because that was

the first day I saw him.

Q. And I just want to clarify the timing of this event a

little bit. You said it was just after the ECOMOG

intervention. When was it in relation to the death of

Abacha who you've referred to earlier?

A. This happened - it took some months before Abacha died.

Q. What do you mean when you say, 'It took some months

before Abacha died'?

A. Well, this mission took place, then Abacha died

thereafter."

And then at the last line, agreed fact number 11, Abacha

died in June 1998. So he's being very specific, Mr Taylor, about

the time frame he's talking about. Now help us, what were you

doing around about that time?

A. In fact around this time, we're talking around about around

about June of 1998, I am responding, in fact, to I would say a

near citation. The President of the Security Council has already

held a meeting with the Liberian ambassador, Mr Wisseh, and had

talked about Liberians being involved in the operations in Sierra

Leone and had asked for a response. Now, depending on that, in

fact, Abacha dies in June, I rush off to Nigeria. In July Kofi

Annan comes, so I'm very busy with this whole intervention and

the issues that follow thereafter by June of 1998 around this

time.

Q. Yes.

A. If you remember, counsel, following the February situation,

by March/April Okelo has already sent this memo to the Security

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Page 30594

Council saying that most of the individuals involved in the

Freetown situation are Liberians. To be followed by the

President of the Security Council inviting Mr Wisseh, my

ambassador charge in New York holding a meeting and asking for a

response. So this is the sequence that's going on at this

particular time. I am very busy now having to respond to

Mr Okelo's memo to the Security Council concerning his assertion

- I mean, at least - that this whole situation that Liberians are

the ones that are involved in the Sierra Leonean crisis because

of the number of them that have been arrested or killed during

the February operation. So I'm not there playing games with

these people.

Q. And returning briefly to page 9458, Mr Taylor, the witness

explains at line 10:

"Q. When abouts in 1998?

A. Well, after this mission because the other one was

around March to April, it was not long. It was a short

time. That was the time ULIMO and LURD forces invaded

Lofa."

Was there such an incursion by ULIMO and LURD in

March/April 1998?

A. Never. No. Except he knows more than I know about ULIMO.

What I know about 1998, there is a little situation where there's

a Mosquito Spray. I don't know. ULIMO is not involved, to my

knowledge, in any attacks on Liberia at this time, or LURD. We

don't get to know who or what this whole thing is until somewhere

about late '99/2000 before the name LURD starts coming up. Other

than that, we don't know.

Q. Now, you've mentioned the Okelo situation and your

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Page 30595

ambassador to the United Nations being summoned by the President

of the Security Council. Now in light of that, Mr Taylor, I

mention this. At page 9453 he's talking about this same delivery

by helicopter:

"Q. You said you were waiting for a helicopter. How long

did you wait for?

A. We were there for up to an hour because when we went

there it did not take long.

Q. Was this in the day or was this at night?

A. It was daytime.

Q. What happened after the hour had expired?

A. We saw a helicopter coming.

Q. Where did the helicopter come to?

A. It came to Foya. It was flying over Foya.

Q. Where did it land?

A. Foya Airfield.

Q. Can you describe this helicopter, please?" Line 29.

Over the page:

"A. It was a military helicopter.

Q. What do you mean by military?

A. It had a green colour.

Q. Did you see how many people were in this helicopter?

A. I saw the two pilots that were there and I saw up to

five people, those who alighted the helicopter that I saw.

Q. After they came did you come to know any of the five

people?

A. Yes, later there was introduction.

Q. Where did the introductions take place?

A. After we had unloaded the materials and brought them

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30596

into the vehicles that was when the introductions were

done.

Q. Who were you introduced to?

A. Mr Bockarie introduced me to a man whom he said was

Mr Taylor's chief bodyguard. He said his name was Benjamin

Yeaten and they used to call him Director."

Now, broad daylight, military helicopter ferrying military

supplies to Foya airfield. Mr Taylor, why were you behaving so

blatantly in light of your ambassador to the UN being summoned by

the President of the Security Council? Didn't you care?

A. No such thing happened. In fact, now, Sam Bockarie is at

the airport. It is not him now going for this material because

his commander calls him, but Sam Bockarie is present in Foya.

This is what he's saying. Sam Bockarie is also present in Foya.

I thought first that his commander had called him and he had gone

for this material.

Q. Well, let's not worry about those details, Mr Taylor. Just

deal with the essential point. Why are you acting so blatantly?

A. But there's no such thing happened, so that's how, you

know, you crack up this whole nonsense. There's no such thing

that happened, I mean, because it would be silly. In fact, I

don't have a helicopter --

Q. I was coming to that.

A. -- at this particular time. And, in fact, any technical

person that we call upon, an Mi-2 helicopter with five

individuals on board and a shipment of ammunition on an Mi-2

helicopter? Because the first helicopter we even get in Liberia

in 1999 is an Mi-2, which is a very small chopper, and nobody,

the Russians on down, ask, will you tell you it's impossible to

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Page 30597

bring two pilots, five individuals, seven, with a load of

ammunition on an Mi-2.

Q. But, Mr Taylor, despite your protestations, I fear I have

to continue with the description given by the witness, same page,

line 24:

"Q. Were you introduced to any of the other men who had

come on the helicopter apart from Benjamin Yeaten?

A. No.

Q. Did you see the person who was the pilot of this

helicopter?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Can you describe what that person looked like?

A. He was white. They were white people.

Q. When you say 'they were white people', how many of the

five were white people?

A. Two.

Q. Did you know where they had come from?

A. No.

Q. Apart from the fact that the pilot was white, was there

anything else that you can describe about that particular

person?"

And then he was asked to clarify:

"Q. Did you know where this helicopter had flown from?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where?

A. Monrovia."

And then he goes on to say that he learnt from Sam Bockarie

that the two white men were Ukrainians. Mr Taylor, did you

employ Ukrainian helicopter pilots in or about March/April 1998

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30598

after the ECOMOG intervention to ferry arms to Sam Bockarie in

Foya by helicopter?

A. No, I didn't. I didn't have a helicopter at this time.

Q. Did you have access to Ukrainian pilots at this time?

A. No. What would they fly? I didn't have a helicopter, no.

Q. And for completeness, the witness goes on to describe the

consignment sent. Page 9456, line 6:

"Q. Can you remember what the materials were?

A. Yes.

Q. What were they?

A. They were AK rounds and there were RPG rockets and

there was RPG tube.

Q. How many AK rounds - or how much AK rounds were there?

A. Forty boxes of AK rounds were there.

Q. How many RPG rockets were there?

A. We had 10 boxes of RPG rockets.

Q. And how many RPG tubes?

A. I didn't count that one. It was just a few. And some

arms were there too.

Q. What arms?

A. AK-47s.

Q. How many?

A. I cannot recall."

And then he goes on to say how the ammunition was

thereafter transported to Sierra Leone. Let's try and move on

from that then, Mr Taylor.

Now, you note that reference was made by the witness to

there being an incursion by ULIMO, LURD at or about this time.

Did you at that time, Mr Taylor, seek the assistance of the RUF

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30599

to repel those invaders?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Because the witness goes on to say this, page 9458, line

28:

"Q. Who were those men who invaded and who were his men?

A. The LURD forces.

Q. And who had the LURD forces invaded?" Page 9459.

"A. Charles Taylor.

Q. And what else did Sam Bockarie tell you?

A. So he said we were to put men together and to go and

help to clear the enemy from that place.

Q. And what did you do when you were told to put men

together and to go and help to clear the enemy?

A. Well, he gave me my own task that I was to go and

prepare men in Kono."

Line 17:

"A. I was to go and prepare manpower for that same

mission and he said he had told Issa and Morris Kallon to

do the same preparation in Kono.

Q. Did you prepare manpower?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you do in relation to the manpower?

A. I brought them to Buedu.

Q. How many men did you bring to Buedu?

A. One platoon.

Q. How many in one platoon?

A. Sixty-two in number.

Q. What did you do when you got to Buedu?

A. We waited for the troops. All the troops were brought

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30600

together and we called a formation.

Q. What happened then?

A. We divided the number into two groups and we divided

them and told them that they were to enter at two flanks.

Well, Sam Bockarie and I were to enter by the Foya axis.

And the other flank, they too were to enter by Vahun.

Q. And did you and Sam Bockarie enter by the Foya axis?

A. Yes.

Q. And what did you do?

A. We attacked the Foya Town.

Q. Who did you attack?

A. The LURD forces.

Q. Were you successful in attacking the LURD forces?

A. Yes, we chased them and we went to that same Kolahun.

Q. Where did you chase them to?

A. Voinjama.

Q. What happened when you got to Voinjama?

A. When we got there that was their base. We fought

against them for the whole day. Thankfully we were able to

capture the place.

Q. When you say thankfully you were able to capture the

place, what place did you capture?

A. Voinjama.

Q. What happened after you captured Voinjama?

A. We had an order from Benjamin Yeaten to chase the men

right to where they'd come from.

Q. Where they'd come from?

A. They said they had come from Guinea.

Q. Did you chase them to Guinea?

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30601

A. Yes."

Now, when was this occasion, Mr Taylor, when a town in the

sovereign country of Liberia was captured by RUF soldiers from

neighbouring Sierra Leone?

A. At no time. No time did the RUF capture any town.

Q. Voinjama?

A. In fact, Voinjama, if we look at the UN report here of the

attack on Voinjama, from the best of my recollection, and the

looting of my forces in Voinjama, this occurred in 1999. So I

don't know how this Voinjama business comes back up, because 1999

we know that as people are moving to Lome, there is some little

problems in the Voinjama area and people have to be picked up.

Mind you, according to all of the UN documents brought

here, where are people picked up from to go to Lome? Vahun.

That's where the helicopter finally lands, in Vahun. If you look

at all of the - according to the UN reports, the first two

individuals that go are - just a reminder - are Ibrahim Bah and

Golley, but they are picked up in Vahun. Now, he's supposed to

be attacking - some other group is supposed to be attacking in

the Vahun axis and all this nonsense. But the people are picked

up - the UN helicopters go to Vahun to pick up the people.

The crisis in Voinjama, that's in 1999, so I don't see what

he's talking about here, because what I understand, this is

happening in 1998 with all these operations - I do not want to

say that I'm misquoting what he said, this looks like, again,

we're talking about around Abacha's situation.

Q. That's the period from - my understanding of the testimony

of this witness --

A. So we're talking about June 1998, and we know from UN

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30602

documents here that the Voinjama situation occurs in 1999. So it

is not true. And this attack from the Vahun axis again, that's

where the United Nations helicopters go to pick up all the

people. All of the reports here, the delegation from Sierra

Leone are picked up in Vahun. So I don't know what attacks are

going on in Vahun that the UN would avoid Lofa and go to Vahun

for because attacks are going on there. It's not true.

But, I mean, these things are just so many that you just

keep saying, "No, it's not true. It's not true." It is really

not true. What he's saying here is not true.

Q. Let's see if we can conclude the rest of the account given

by this individual, because he continues, page 9461, line 12:

"Q. What happened after you chased them to Guinea?

A. We captured a town that was called Bayalo in Guinea.

Q. What did you do after you captured the town?

A. We received order to burn the entire town and that we

did.

Q. Who did you receive the order from?

A. From Benjamin Yeaten.

Q. What happened after you had burnt the entire town?

A. We withdrew back to Voinjama.

Q. And what happened after you got to Voinjama?

A. We passed the night there and in the morning we put our

men together and we returned to Foya. Then we left the

Liberians there.

Q. Where did you go?

A. Then Sam Bockarie took me to go to Monrovia.

Q. Did Sam Bockarie tell you why you were going to

Monrovia?

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30603

A. He said Mr Taylor had invited him for us to go and

receive morale boosters.

Q. Did you go to Monrovia?

A. Yes.

Q. Who went to Monrovia?

A. I went and Sam Bockarie went too and one of his

bodyguards called Magazine. All of us went.

Q. Did anybody else go?

A. Well, we were the ones who went.

Q. How did you get to Monrovia?

A. That same military helicopter with the combat colour

picked us up from Foya.

Q. And where did you go when you got to Monrovia?

A. We landed at a field that I did not know. That is in

the Monrovia city.

Q. Had you been to Monrovia city before?

A. No.

Q. When you landed in this field that you didn't know,

where did you go to from there?

A. A vehicle came to receive us and we drove together with

Benjamin Yeaten and we went to Benjamin Yeaten's place,

White Flower.

Q. Where did you meet Benjamin Yeaten?

A. Well, this helicopter that came, all of us travelled in

it."

He goes on to explain that they met Benjamin Yeaten in

Foya, that on arrival in Monrovia they went to Benjamin Yeaten's

place at White Flower. Over the page, 9463, pick it up at line

14:

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30604

"Q. How long did you spend in Monrovia on this occasion?

A. We spent some days in Monrovia.

Q. How many days?

A. Like three days.

Q. What did you do during the three days you were in

Monrovia?

A. I was at Mr Benjamin's place and in the morning the two

of them would go out to meet with the President. They'll

say they were going to meet with the President.

Q. Who are the two of them?

A. Benjamin Yeaten and Sam Bockarie.

Q. Did you yourself ever go to meet with Mr Taylor on that

occasion some.

A. No.

Q. Did you speak to Sam Bockarie after he had met with

Charles Taylor?

A. Yes, he told me that they had come from the President's

and that was the Mansion Ground.

Q. Did he tell you what had taken place in this meeting

with Charles Taylor?

A. The Pa said we should wait, that he had promised to

give us morale booster and some ammunition for us to go

back with.

Q. And did you wait?

A. Yes. The day that we were to move was when I saw some

ammunition and Sam Bockarie told me that the Pa had given

$10,000. The ammunition was AK rounds and some RPG

rockets. Can't recall how many."

Over the page:

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30605

"Q. You said that Sam Bockarie told you that the Pa had

given $10,000. Did you see $10,000?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you see the money?

A. He told me there and when we got to Foya all of us met

together with Issa and others and they got out the money

and it was counted."

Now, Mr Taylor, bearing in mind when this is supposed to

occur, remember ULIMO/LURD March/April 1998, you seek assistance

from Sam Bockarie across the border.

A. Yes.

Q. He comes over with men; they successfully capture Voinjama;

drive the invaders back into Guinea; burn a town on the way; and

then, no doubt as a vote of thanks, they are taken back to

Monrovia, where they're given further weapons and $10,000, yes?

A. Yes. Total, total false. Total false, and maybe one of

the things we ought to consider, we have to get the technical

information on an Mi-2. Forty boxes of AK ammunition on an Mi-2,

it would never get off the ground. Added to that ten boxes of

RPG, five human beings --

PRESIDING JUDGE: Did the evidence actually say the

helicopter was an Mi-2?

THE WITNESS: But that's the only helicopter that we got in

1999. So even if he's talking about that, I'm trying to say the

helicopter that finally the Government of Liberia gets is an Mi-2

in 1999, okay?

MR GRIFFITHS:

Q. Just to be clear, Mr Taylor, apart from that Mi-2, did the

Government of Liberia at any stage have access to any larger

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30606

helicopters?

A. Yes.

Q. When?

A. In 2000 we get an Mi-8 - in 2000 when the war intensifies.

But what we have on the ground beginning 1999 is an Mi-2. They

are parked now at the Spriggs Payne Airport in Monrovia.

Q. And I want to be clear about this. Prior to getting the

Mi-2, did you have access to a helicopter?

A. No, the Liberian government did not have a helicopter at

that time, no.

Q. All right.

A. No.

Q. Was there any body in Liberia prior to 1999 who had access

to helicopters?

A. Yes.

Q. Who?

A. There was an aircraft company there. Weasua had an Mi-8

helicopter that was leased by the United Nations and other

places, people - painted white, but they had an Mi-8.

Q. What colour was it?

A. White.

Q. Sure it wasn't camouflage paint?

A. No, no, no, no. A white Mi-8 that was used by NGOs, United

Nations. It was painted white to demonstrate that it was used

for legal international purposes. No, it was an Mi-8 painted

white, owned by Weasua.

Q. Did your government ever use it?

A. No, we did not. We did not use it as a government, no.

The UN leased it on a few occasions.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30607

Q. Now, the witness goes on to suggest, Mr Taylor, that in

addition to the various occasions when he went to collect arms -

do you remember he spoke of two trips to Foya to pick up arms?

A. Yes, yes, yes.

Q. He says at page 9469:

"Q. Was there a third occasion when you yourself were

involved in obtaining arms and ammunition for the RUF?

A. Yes. I was involved in another one again.

Q. When was this other one?

A. 2000, after the May incident that occurred in

Freetown."

Now, the May incident in Freetown is what, Mr Taylor?

A. Well, to the best of my knowledge, the May incident in

Freetown must be the assault on Foday Sankoh's house, if I'm

correct.

Q. After that event did you send a shipment of arms to the

RUF?

A. No, I didn't. How would I send? No, I didn't. No.

Q. Now, who is Damate Conneh?

A. Damate Conneh ended up being the last leader of LURD.

Q. Now, the witness mentions his name in relation to another

incursion by LURD when once again he received - page 9474, line

24 - a similar instruction from Mr Sesay that "I should put men

together to go and join Benjamin Yeaten at Kolahun." What about

that one, Mr Taylor?

A. No. I'm not aware of that, no. But you asked a question

about May 2000 and what is going on at that time. If we look at

to see how this witness is not telling the truth, what's also

going on in May 2000? We dealt with this also with another

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Page 30608

witness. There are UN hostages, right, that have been taken -

more than 500 of them that have been taken. We begin the

negotiations for the release of those hostages in May, and the

United Nations is on the ground and everybody is on the ground.

We finally get those people released. So now here I am at this

particular time trying to get more than 500 UN peacekeepers

released; I'm sending ammunition to Freetown. So I just wanted

to put in perspective that period that he's talking about to

demonstrate that it is not true.

Q. And once again the witness says at page 9478 that following

the successful capture of Voinjama once again he's taken in the

same military helicopter to Monrovia - page 9478 - and he goes on

at page 9479, line 12:

"Q. Where did the helicopter take you?

A. Straight back to the main field where myself and Sam

Bockarie had landed. That was the same playing field that

we landed in Monrovia.

Q. Where did you go after you arrived?

A. White Flower.

Q. Who was on that trip?

A. Benjamin Yeaten and me.

Q. Anybody else?

A. No."

And then he says that they did meet some person:

Q. Who was that person who met you there?

A. General Sesay."

Now, what's this, Mr Taylor? A trip to Monrovia, White

Flower, by Benjamin Yeaten, Issa Sesay and this man Karmoh Kanneh

taken there by helicopter following their assistance to your

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Page 30609

government in Lofa to fight off LURD sometime in 2000. What do

you say?

A. That's not true. That is not true. So he meets Issa Sesay

in Monrovia?

Q. Well --

A. Is that my understanding?

Q. I can only look at what is recorded in the testimony at

line 23, page 9479:

"Q. Was there anybody else in Monrovia that you met after

you arrived?"

A. Well, no. We did not meet some other person but

somebody met us there.

Q. Who was the person that met you there?

A. General Sesay, Issa Sesay."

So Sesay is in Monrovia. Yeaten and this man come to

Monrovia and meets him there. That's the sequence.

A. That's not true. That's not true. What is he, some VIP?

What is he - because we're talking about 2000 now. We're talking

about Issa Sesay as leader of the RUF. Issa Sesay is now RUF

leader, okay, because we've passed the incident of the arrest of

Foday Sankoh. So except where Issa Sesay has now ordered he's

some top individual - I don't know him as being so senior in the

RUF that the Issa Sesay is on the ground waiting for him. That

beats me. But it didn't happen as he says it here, no.

Q. Now, he goes on. On that occasion, he says - remember, he

meets Issa Sesay in Monrovia. And it goes on at page 9481, line

10:

"Q. The person you met or who met you in Monrovia you said

was Issa Sesay. Whereabouts did he meet you?

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Page 30610

A. Well, he met us at Benjamin Yeaten's place which is at

the back of the President's house.

Q. How long were you in Monrovia?

A. For about four or five days?

Q. What did you do during those four or five days?

A. Well, after Mr Issa Sesay had arrived I did not

actually know what their discussion was and my meeting -

even my meeting with the President was cancelled."

Pausing there. So you were scheduled to meet him,

Mr Taylor, but the meeting was cancelled.

A. I had no meeting with this person here, ever. Why would

Issa Sesay be in Monrovia? Because if Issa Sesay met him, that

means that Issa Sesay got in Monrovia before he got there. Who

is this man that I had a scheduled meeting with, for God's sake?

No. Who is this man?

Q. Very well. The witness then goes on to speak of meeting

Sam Bockarie at Sam Bockarie's house in Monrovia. Page 9490.

And I will ask you about this. He was asked:

"Q. Whereabouts in the house did you meet?

A. It was at the front of his house, John Benjamin,

because he lived at the back of the President's house, the

former President's house, Mr Taylor.

Q. Who was present, apart from yourself, when you met Sam

Bockarie?

A. I was there, Director, that is Benjamin Yeaten himself

was there, Sam Bockarie was there and Benjamin's security

officers were there and his signal man too was there.

Q. Can you name any of the security officers who were

present?

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30611

A. I can recall one of them was called Varney. That I can

recall."

He cannot recall the name of the signal man:

"Q. On Friday you said that you and Sam Bockarie exchanged

greetings. Did you have any further conversation with Sam

Bockarie at that time?

A. No, we spoke and what we said was that we greeted each

other and after the greetings he made an appointment with

me to meet him at his base, because Director was there. He

wanted us to discuss, but director was there.

Q. What do you mean 'He wanted us to discuss but Director

was there'?

A. That was why he made an appointment with me. He said I

should meet him and that there was something he wanted us

to discuss, but because Benjamin Yeaten was present that

was why he deferred it so that I would meet him at his" -

Sam Bockarie's - "house.

Q. Did you meet him at his house?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where was his house?

A. His house around ELWA Junction. The road that led to

his house was called Four Houses Road.

Q. Had you been to this house before?

A. No, that was my first time to go.

Q. Did you go there with anyone else apart from yourself?

A. No.

Q. Did you meet with Sam Bockarie?

A. Yes.

Q. Was anybody else present apart from yourself and Sam

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30612

Bockarie?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who?

A. I saw his child, they used to call his child Copal, and

I saw his mother and his clerk was called Jabbati and his

wife and some other people that I did not know.

Q. Did you see anyone else there apart from his child, his

mother, his clerk Jabbati and his wife?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who did you see?

A. They were both men and women. I could not recognise

them because I did not know them before that time.

Q. Did you speak to Sam Bockarie?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where did you speak to him?

A. He invited me to his bedroom where he used to sleep.

Q. In the bedroom, who was in the bedroom apart from

yourself?

A. We met his wife. His wife was in the room. She was

the third person.

Q. What was said?

A. At first when we entered it was about the RUF business

that he told me about, the way the RUF had treated him. He

said the RUF had been ungrateful to him, that he was not

expecting, but from that time that he had left the RUF and

he had put a curse on the movement and he will continue to

put a curse on the movement on a daily basis, when he would

go to bed he would curse the movement that the movement

will never succeed. He said that he was just sorry for

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30613

some of us that what - the way he was using us during the

war, he was just sorry for us, but that the movement will

never be successful. That was the first topic that he

spoke about."

And then he continues, line 27:

"A. He said he was discouraged, because he had just come

from the police station as the President Mr Taylor had made

him to be invited to the police station and he was in open

detention for between three and four days and I asked, I

said, 'Why, why were you invited?' He said the President

Mr Taylor said he had a lot of pressure from the

international community to hand over Sam Bockarie. He said

he was there for three days and he said what he told him,

if he was going to hand him over, that is Sam Bockarie, he

would explain everything, all the deals that were between

RUF and Mr Taylor, he the Sam Bockarie would explain that

to the Special Court, and that was what he said and after

that day - after the two to three - three to four days he

was released again and he returned to his house.

Q. Did he tell you what happened to him after he had been

released and returned to his house?

A. He did not tell me about any other thing that happened

to him, but I don't think anything happened. He said when

he said that the Pa sent an order for his release, but he

told me that he was worried about this, for his life.

Q. Did he tell you why he was worried for his life?

A. He said the Pa said he had a lot of pressure for him to

be arrested, so that was why he said he was worried for his

life and at the same time he said the Pa had said he had a

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30614

mission for him, but he did not tell me what mission it

was."

Now, there's a lot there, Mr Taylor. But let's just break

it down. Whilst in Monrovia, 2000, witness meets up with Sam

Bockarie at Benjamin Yeaten's address. Bockarie tells him, "Need

to speak to you alone." So he goes to Bockarie's address, meets

with Bockarie who tells him that you, Charles Taylor, President

of Liberia, ordered, in effect, his arrest because you were under

pressure from the international community to hand him over and

that, in effect, Bockarie, through fear for his life, was

blackmailing you, saying, "If you hand me over, I'll tell

everything about the deals you and I did." Is that true,

Mr Taylor?

A. Your Honours, Sam Bockarie was never arrested in Liberia,

not even for a second. Never. The whole while Sam Bockarie was

in Liberia before he left, and mind you, I do not know - well,

he's talking about early in 2000. Sam Bockarie leaves Liberia in

late 2000. Sam Bockarie is never, ever arrested. So this other

one about Sam Bockarie being arrested and kept for four or five

days or picked up at the police station is as unfounded as it

gets. He was never sent to the police station. Every newspaper

would have picked it up. Every radio station would have picked

it up. It never happened. Never was Sam Bockarie ever

embarrassed in Liberia in this way about being sent to the police

station. I don't know how this man can bring - can say this. It

never happened, ever. As simple as that. So all this other

nonsense, that's all I can put it to. It looks like a

well-written script and he is just following the script.

Sam Bockarie arrested in Monrovia at the time? Mind you,

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30615

before this Court there was a lady that says she was Sam

Bockarie's radio operator, that when Sam Bockarie got into

Monrovia they set up a radio at Four Houses, and the question was

asked whether I was aware of it. I don't know of any of those

that accompanied Sam Bockarie to Monrovia that testified here,

Jabbati Jaward, I forgot the lady's name who was the radio

operator, there was another young man, I'm not sure if he was a

protected witness, who says he was an operator working in

Benjamin Yeaten's yard. All the people that went with Sam

Bockarie, I know of none of them that have told this Court about

Sam Bockarie being embarrassed, including this gentleman who is

also protected that was supposed to have escorted Sam Bockarie

around Africa and wherever he went. Sam Bockarie was never

picked up and arrested.

Q. That's TF1-579.

A. Never arrested. Never embarrassed at any time. When it

was time for Sam Bockarie to leave, we sent him out of the

country. He was never arrested. So all of this stuff is a

blatant, really unfortunate lie.

Q. Well, Mr Taylor, there is a matrix of facts being

established here which you need to have clearly in mind because

what the witness is saying and what is being relied on is this:

You knew, in effect, that this Special Court was on your trail

and you were being blackmailed by Sam Bockarie about that.

That's the crux of the allegation. You do get it, don't you?

A. But that was never the case. Sam Bockarie never, ever

threatened in any way because there was nothing - I really - I

did not know, quite frankly, that any court, Special Court, was

on my trail. Never. Never. Not from my wildest imagination,

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30616

no. And Sam Bockarie - there was no discussion with Sam Bockarie

where there was some - well, if you knew all of this, then why

let him leave the country?

Q. 2000.

A. Yes, but why would he leave? If you know that he holds the

key to me, then the best thing to do is not to let him leave.

Q. Well, you see, what the witness is saying is that you had a

particular mission for him. Remember that being mentioned?

A. Yeah.

Q. Now, we know what that mission is, don't we? Where does he

end up, Mr Taylor?

A. He ends up in la Cote d'Ivoire.

Q. Right. So he's got a choice then, unpacking the evidence

of this witness. Go on this mission or - that's the choice you

gave him.

A. Come on, no.

Q. Well, Mr Taylor, listen, it's not a question of "come on".

A. No, no.

Q. These are very serious allegations being made against you

by this Prosecution.

A. Yes, but it's a foolish accusation. I mean, they will want

to put it - you want somebody that has the key to getting you

arrested and killed, and you send him out of the country. What's

the best thing? If you want to arrest or kill the man, he's in

your hands; what do you do? You do it. But, no, you take him

and you send him, say "Go and fight a war." So the man leaves

the country. Do you have control over him? It would be silly

for anybody to even - I mean, only sick minds would believe that.

Let's be honest about this. I mean, I know what this whole case

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30617

is about, but it is sick if anyone would say Bockarie, who holds

the key to getting me whatever, he's in my hands and I let him

go. He goes, I send him off to a war. It doesn't make sense. I

mean, anybody wanted to believe that, I can't stop them from

believing that. You've got the man, he's supposed to be

threatening you. Instead of - you want to destroy him. Instead

of you do it, you send him out of the country. What control do

you have when he's gone out of the country? None. So it doesn't

make sense. So all these silly things that these people have

lead these people here to talking about, I have no control over

it. But logically, no sound person would look at this as being

anything sensible, that this man has the key but I sent him out

of the country to go and fight a war. Come on. I mean, why let

him go? He goes and he tries to fight his way back into the

country. Does this look like a man that is threatened by me?

No. So, I mean, the logic as they have lead these witnesses

through it is just totally warped, and I don't understand it.

But you are right, there is a major allegation here. But, I

mean, it's like - you know, it's almost like pick what you want.

I mean, it's just a maze of - it's like, you know, something like

the Rubik's Cube. You've got to fight your way out of this.

Here is somebody that - here's Chief Foday - Issa Sesay is in

Monrovia; he comes. Here is a man that is supposed to be wanting

to meet me that - it's cut off. I don't even know how important

he is, if he was an important individual in the RUF - because

they talk about those that were very important - he probably

would have been arrested himself and probably going through the

Special Court of Sierra Leone. This man is virtually nothing,

but he's got a meeting with me. I'm just trying to point out

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30618

there's a crop and crop of total, total fabrications made up and

it does not lead to anything logical. None.

Q. Now, Mr Taylor, later in the testimony of the witness the

witness was allowed to offer this opinion during the course of

his testimony, page 9496:

"Q. Did you learn whether anything happened to Sam

Bockarie?

A. Yes.

Q. What?

A. Later I heard over the same BBC that Sam Bockarie was

dead, so I just recalled when he said he was worried for

his life and I recalled again that - I thought again that

Mr Taylor would never hand that man over because of that

statement. I was not there" - and then he offers this

opinion - "but I just concluded that that could have been

the reason why he killed that man: For him not to ever

come to this Court and explain anything."

That is the hidden conclusion. And the point being made,

Mr Taylor, is this: You don't cover your tracks unless you've

got something to hide. Do you get it? It's a guilty man, they

say, who commits murder to silence potential witnesses. You get

it? That's how significant this is.

A. Well, I tell you something. I don't care who the person

is, if this kind of logic holds, then I don't - then I'm guilty.

Because nobody who is educated would believe this nonsensical

logic that Sam Bockarie, who leaves the country far out of my

reach, returns to Liberia, and all of a sudden he gets killed

because I'm trying to hide something when the man is in Liberia.

He fights his way back into the country. Sam Bockarie is there

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30619

in the first instance. He's there. He suggests that in 2000 -

before Sam Bockarie leaves in 2000, he suggests that Sam Bockarie

is at a police station in 2000 and he's kept. But because he

threatens me in 2000, I have to let him out. And what do I do?

I tell him you have a choice of going out to go and fight a war.

2003 Sam Bockarie, who has left the country for more than two

years, okay, is out there and now he comes and he's supposed to

be killed because of what I did not accomplish in 2000 when I let

him go, I accomplished it in 2003. Then that type of logic I

don't need to sit in this Court, because that logic would not

suffice. It's a silly logic, I mean, for him to even draw, that:

Well, Mr Taylor did this because of that. When you say before in

2000 - the man threatened me in 2000 and he left the country. So

what did I do, throw a hook and hook him and bring him back into

Liberia? Do I have extraterritorial powers to go to Ivory Coast

or Burkina Faso and arrest Sam Bockarie and bring him to Liberia

and kill him? I mean, these are the type of things that make

this whole case just reel when you have this kind of thinking. I

mean, this is total, total, utter nonsense, I would call it, with

this kind of logic that he proposes here.

Q. The final matter I want to put to you with regard to this

witness, Mr Taylor, is this. The witness speaks of a large

consignment of arms and ammunition being brought to Sierra Leone,

and he says he was later told why that was done by Issa Sesay.

Line 26:

"Q. What did he tell you?

A. At one time I was at my base in Pendembu and he invited

me, because he was based in Kono. When I went there, he

told me about the mission."

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30620

And I should add that this at a time when UNAMSIL have

deployed in Sierra Leone.

"Q. What mission?

A. The reason why the materials were brought. He said

Mr Taylor had given those materials and the weapons and

that we were to attack Guinea from two flanks from the

Sierra Leone end. He said those were the materials and

even the money that he had told me about was for the

mission. That was what he told me.

Q. What money?

A. That the trip that we went on, we brought with us

$50,000. He gave us $50,000 that we brought from Monrovia.

I thought when we would get to Pendembu he will share it

amongst us, but we did not do that. He said President

Taylor had given us the money together with the material.

Q. Who had he given the money to?

A. Issa Sesay."

Now, Mr Taylor, effectively what's being said is you were

paying the RUF to do your fighting for you by attacking Guinea.

A. From Sierra Leone?

Q. Yes.

A. For what reason? Never gave Issa Sesay any arms or

ammunition.

Q. Well, let me offer you a reason so you can deal with it.

A. Okay.

Q. Lansana Conte never liked you. His country was being used

a base for raids into Liberia. What better way to respond to him

than unleashing your boys from across the way in Sierra Leone?

You get it?

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Page 30621

A. Yeah, but if I'd wanted to do that --

Q. That's the logic.

A. Yeah, I would do that myself. I would not have to use

anybody. And in fact, we did - I did follow. In 2001/2002, I

did follow LURD forces into Guinea and - on a search-and-destroy

mission and it didn't take - I mean, well, I had larger, stronger

forces by this time - by this time we have written the Security

Council and I have other weapons in Liberia and we have certain

capacities, and I did go after LURD forces in two towns in

Guinea, Liberian forces. So here I am now paying RUF forces out

of Sierra Leone to go and attack Guinea. That's not true.

That's not true. In fact, I think there is evidence before this

Court that there were some clashes between Sierra Leonean and

Guinean forces for reasons that were good for the RUF, but not

for my side, no. No, I wouldn't have done that, and I wouldn't

have given Issa Sesay any money or ask him to do anything.

Q. All right. Mr Taylor, that is all I ask you about this

witness. In the same vein we're continuing one of the themes

raised by that witness. We're now moving on to a witness

TF1-579.

A. Is that protected?

Q. It's a protected witness, but it's a witness who dealt with

certain movements regarding Sam Bockarie. You remember?

A. Okay.

Q. Let's set it in context, shall we. Let's put it in

context. Let's start - this person gives evidence, and I want to

start with the evidence he gave on bonfire night, 5 November

2008, starting at page 19795, line 1:

"Q. What else did Sankoh say about his mission that you

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Page 30622

can recall?

A. I remember that he was telling Oliver that this

revolution that we are here to launch, I do not want any

looting. I do not want my citizens to be harassed. That

was what I heard him say.

Q. Did Sankoh indicate how he would get the men and the

equipment to do this invasion?

A. Yes, Sankoh said his men were trained at Naama and that

most of them were Liberians at that time and the supplies

were given to him by Mr Taylor and that every support for

that movement came from Mr Taylor.

Q. Do you know whether or not Oliver Varney was surprised

to see Sankoh come and say he was bringing men through Bomi

Hills?

A. No, I was not surprised, because Oliver, Sankoh and

others, all of them came from Libya together. According to

him, he said all of them were there and that he was a

friend to Mr Taylor and he was friendly to all of them and

so all of them came together. So it was not a surprise to

me, nor Oliver.

Q. Was there any communication before the arrival of

Sankoh?

A. Yes, the communication took place in the radio room

whilst I was standing there and it came directly from

Mr Taylor in Gbarnga to Oliver and he said Sankoh was en

route and that he should make sure that he gives him every

support he needed."

In there from the beginning, Mr Taylor, directing Oliver

Varney, who, according to you, is involved in this dreadful

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Page 30623

conspiracy with others and Sankoh behind your back, and there you

are, according to this witness, instructing Oliver Varney to

provide every assistance to your friend from Libya, Foday Sankoh.

See?

A. Yes, I see. I never, never called Oliver Varney at any

time to give him any instructions of such. Never.

Q. But you agree that there came a time, did there not, when

you did provide Foday Sankoh with accommodation in Gbarnga?

A. Oh, yes. Yes, I did.

Q. Just a little detail: Was that in an area called Sugar

Hill?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you recall whether there were any SBUs based at that

address?

A. No.

Q. What about a task force?

A. No, at this time I'm not - there was a police - yeah, I

think there was a task force. There was a task force, but it was

very near the Executive Mansion in Gbarnga.

Q. What was very near to the Executive Mansion in Gbarnga?

A. The task force headquarters.

Q. And were there any SSS based at that address in Sugar Hill?

A. No. At that time we had not put together the SSS yet, no.

Q. For completeness, page 19814, line 13:

"When I came under Benjamin Yeaten's command Foday Sankoh

was given a house right at the area called Sugar Hill, Sugar

Hill, and that is where he stayed. At this house there were

SBUs, task force and some SSS personnel assigned at the house,

not far away from Benjamin Yeaten's house and not far away from

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Page 30624

the mansion, and we used to go there and speak to him. That was

where I saw him again."

That's the testimony of the witness, Mr Taylor.

A. How can a whole unit of SSS and task force be at wherever

Foday Sankoh is? Foday Sankoh has a house in Gbarnga. I gave

him a house in Gbarnga. The police headquarters, the task force

is attached to the police at the time. They have a headquarters

in the building near the mansion because they have to protect the

mansion too. At this particular time the SSS is not really put

together. The SSS is a creation of the government of Liberia and

it's an old organisation.

We had with us behind the line, we're talking about way

back in '91 and '92, we had some senior officers that had managed

to reach to Gbarnga and what we were trying to do at this

particular time, we started using them to begin to train the

people in VIP protection. So by this time in '91/'92, while

Sankoh is there, the SSS is still not put together, no. We only

have bodyguards provided by the Executive Mansion Guard, but even

that terminology or acronym SSS is not actually in place at this

time yet.

Q. Mr Taylor, at this time when the Executive Mansion was

based in Gbarnga, was there an ammunition dump at the Executive

Mansion?

A. Yes, we had something like - well, you call it an arm dump.

We had something like a container where we kept supplies outside

of the fence but within the security zone in the general area. I

would say just maybe about a hundred yards or more from the

Executive Mansion.

Q. And did the NPFL have a G4 position or section within its

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hierarchy?

A. Well, I can say yes, but --

Q. Was it called that?

A. Yes, but let me just get one thing clear. Every unit had

an S4. But the S4 is at the unit level and they kept their

material, but a general G4 at that particular time, we didn't

have an assigned individual as a G4.

Q. No?

A. I beg your pardon?

Q. You didn't?

A. No. We had supplies and we had people at the warehouse.

That G4, just to explain for - I'm sure there are military people

here that understand. The S4, G4, they carry out the same

function except that the G4 is on the overall level. It's the

highest position. We did not have a G4, because as supplies

came, they had to go out so quickly. But each unit in the field

had their S4 that took care of the ammunition and they had their

ammo dump under what we call the S4.

Q. And was that controlled by a man called Moses?

A. No. This Moses that keeps running around - Moses is not

even a third grade student. He can hardly read and write, this

Moses, and I'm referring to Moses Duo that has been flaunted

around this Court. Moses Duo can barely read and write. No, he

was not.

Q. Because, just to put everything together, the witness says

this, he is asked whether or not Foday Sankoh was staying at his

residence in Gbarnga or sometimes travelling, page 19815, line

20:

"A. Sankoh used to travel and come to Gbarnga.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30626

Q. Where was he going?

A. I don't know.

Q. When you were in Gbarnga, did you receive any

assignments at any time to go to other parts of Liberia?

A. Yes. I was Gbarnga at the mansion when at one time an

enemy hit. ULIMO hit some part of Lofa and there was a

supply to take to Lofa at that time and I was part of that

convoy. Mr Yeaten gave the order and we drove to that

place. The RUF came from in and repelled the attack. I

met with one of the commanders called Yellow Man and the

supply was turned over to them. That was one of the

assignments that we had.

Q. Do you recall what year this was that you travelled to

Lofa?

A. It was in the same 1992."

He then explained that the supply he was talking about was

ammunition. Line 15:

"Q. Where in Gbarnga was the ammunition kept?

A. The ammunition was kept right at the mansion. There

was a G4 section right at the mansion. That was where the

ammunition was kept.

Q. Can you explain what you mean is brought back by the

RUF came in and repelled the attack?

A. Yes, when we were in Gbarnga the RUF - because their

supply used to come from Gbarnga to reach them and so that

was their supply route, so any attack that would block

their route they will come from in to repel that attack

because Mr Taylor used to send them supplies and so that

route was not supposed to be blocked.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30627

Q. Did you ever make any other trip to Sierra Leone or

trips?"

No, we'll come back to that in a moment. And he goes on to

mention that the person from whom they received the ammunition at

a place near to your house was a man called Moses. Now, let's

look at two aspects of that, firstly. After ULIMO began

attacking Liberia, Mr Taylor, did you at any stage seek the

assistance of the RUF to enter into Liberia to repel them?

A. No.

Q. Never?

A. Never. Never.

Q. Now, the witness goes on. He is asked:

"Q. Did you ever make any other trip to Sierra Leone or

trips?

A. Yes. The second time was with Zigzag Marzah, Jungle,

Daniel Tamba" --

MS HOLLIS: Could I ask for a page reference, please?

MR GRIFFITHS: I'm sorry. 19837, line 16:

Q. "Q. Did you ever make any other trip to Sierra Leone or

trips?

A. Yes, yes. The second time was with Zigzag Marzah,

Jungle, Daniel Tamba, Sampson Weah and I. When we drove to

Benjamin Yeaten's house, and Yeaten told us to follow him

to the warehouse and we followed him to the warehouse and

that was right at Mr Taylor's house, that is on the

left-hand side of the house, that was where they had the

warehouse. We went there and Yeaten took a list of those

things that we were supposed to carry and he presented it

to the G4 section. The commander there was Moses Duoh and

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30628

we also received another supply of ammunition, mortar guns,

RPG rockets, LAR, AK rounds and that was Zigzag, Sampson,

Jungle and I, we left and we went to Buedu, along with

three bodyguards who were on top of the car and one of them

was called Enforcer, so we went there.

Q. Sir, you said this second trip began - you said you

went to Benjamin Yeaten's house. Where was Benjamin

Yeaten's house?

A. Benjamin Yeaten's house was right at the back of

Mr Taylor's house, sloping down the hill. No sooner you

slope down the hill you see the house on the right-hand

side. That was Benjamin Yeaten's house.

The warehouse was attached right on Mr Taylor's house.

That is when you come to the front side of the house, by

the left-hand side you will see the warehouse.

This warehouse is right at Mr Taylor's house, the left-hand

side of Mr Taylor's house. When you stand at the front of

the house you watch at the left side, you just walk by the

side of the road, then you go down and you will see the

warehouse and it was attached directly to Mr Taylor's

house.

Q. When he presented the list to Moses Duoh, do you recall

any conversation?

A. He presented the list to Moses and he got back into his

car and left and we stayed there. We started going through

the list so that we received those supplies of ammunition."

Now, just in terms of the physical layout, Mr Taylor, was

there such a warehouse - and we need to be careful here, we're

not talking about Gbarnga here, we're talking about Monrovia.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30629

A. Yes.

Q. Was there such a warehouse attached to your residence in

Monrovia?

A. No, no.

Q. Was there ever a Moses Duoh employed effectively as G4,

let's put it in ordinary language, warehouse man at your address?

A. No. There is a Moses Duoh, he is not G4.

Q. What is he?

A. Moses Duoh is one of the workers in the SSS warehouse that

is located right outside - I mean, in the vicinity of White

Flower. The man in charge of that warehouse is a man called Kai.

Q. Kai?

A. Kai Sony [phon].

Q. And what was Kai's responsibility at the warehouse?

A. Kai was responsible for maintaining the - he held the keys.

Everything, everything that had to do with that warehouse. It

was a warehouse - it's an office - it's a building, it's a

building that hosts the SSS. At the top floors you have the SSS

offices. At the bottom floor, that's where the SSS keep their

supplies that are needed for presidential protection and Kai is

responsible for the keys for that.

Q. Just give us an idea, Mr Taylor, and we'll come, not this

afternoon, perhaps tomorrow, to look at the location in a bit

more detail.

A. Okay.

Q. But for now, just help us to this extent: This warehouse

attached to the SSS, how far from your residence would it be?

A. It is separated by the fence. It is right next to the

fence of my house. Right next to it.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30630

Q. So I just want to be clear. When you say "right next to

it", does it actually adjoin your residence?

A. When you say adjoin my residence, I would say - in your

question I would say yes, but in the legal sense now to say it

adjoined my residence - because my property is on one acre and

the entire acre is fenced. This is not like a little lot. It's

on an entire acre and the acre is fenced. So that building falls

on the outside of that fence. So I know how you asked the

question. I would say yes, but maybe for other purposes we may

have to clarify it more.

Q. So it's next door then?

A. I would say yes.

Q. It's next door. And just describe the structure for us?

A. Which structure? The building?

Q. No, the warehouse.

A. Well, the building is a two-storey building. The top

storey contains offices. That's where the SSS and all of the

securities that are there for the protection of the President,

they are housed in there. All of the material that they use for

movement are in there. That is when I'm moving out of town,

materials are loaded and carried; when they come, they put it in

back in. Also in that warehouse you have food and other things

that - in fact, every Saturday in Monrovia I distributed about

400 bags of rice to poor people around the city. So it's a

warehouse that contains supplies for the presidency, as far as

food is concerned, and materials - as far as the Secret Service,

the police and the military personnel assigned to protect the

President, all of their materials are housed in there.

Q. And who has access to that warehouse?

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30631

A. That warehouse is under the command of the SSS director

Benjamin Yeaten.

Q. Right. And it's right, is it not, that Yeaten's residence

is not far from yours?

A. I would say - well, I would say it's a little - it's far.

Benjamin Yeaten's residence is some distance from my house.

It's, I mean, it's several, several houses away from my house.

Q. Okay. Now did yourself directly have access to that

warehouse?

A. No. I would have no need to be, no.

Q. I mean, putting it in very simple terms that we can all

understand, did you have a key to the warehouse?

A. No, no. I didn't have a key to it.

Q. Very well. Let's go back to the witness. The witness goes

on to say this, Mr Taylor. He talks about a trip he makes to

Buedu to deliver arms and ammunition, okay, and in that context

he said this at page 19843, line 3:

"Q. When you got to Buedu, was Mosquito there?

A. Yes, Mosquito was in Buedu, we saw him and he welcomed

us and we turned those things over to him, but the problem

that we faced with him then was that he said he wanted a

jeep and we told him that the jeep belonged to General

Yeaten, your friend, and that indeed if you wanted the jeep

you should please make a call to him so that we will not be

in problem with him and he said, 'That man is my friend.

All you need to do is that you should just go and tell him

that your friend says he wants the jeep,' and he was able

to give $2,000 US to Sampson and I, so we left the jeep

with him".

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30632

Do you recall this incident, Mr Taylor - this testimony?

A. I recall the testimony, yes.

Q. "But before leaving Buedu, when he said he wanted a jeep

there was a tank, a war tank, with a chain under it, those big

military tanks. It was captured behind the Moa River where they

were fighting and he said Mr Taylor said he wanted a tank. He

said that he should send it to him in Monrovia. So we used this

jeep. We drove from Buedu to the Moa River and when we got to

the river, the tank was across the river. You could stand at the

other side of the river and see the tank across."

And then he goes on to mention how the ferry was broken,

and remember the whole episode about the tank. We don't need all

the details, just this for now: Do you recall a conversation

with Sam Bockarie when you expressed a desire to have a tank?

A. No.

Q. A battle tank?

A. No.

Q. Or do you recall a conversation with Mr Bockarie when he

said, "Guess what, chief, I've got a tank for you"? Did you have

such a conversation with him?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Do you know anything at all about this tank episode?

A. None whatsoever. If Sam Bockarie had a tank that I wanted,

I would have sent for it. Not some guy who goes there, he goes

to deliver ammunition, no. Never discussed any tank matter with

Sam Bockarie, never.

Q. Now, in the context of these trips made by the witness to

Sierra Leone, he continued at page 19848 in this way:

"Q. Do you have any idea when the trips that you were

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30633

aware of - just the ones that you were aware of - began?

A. Yes, I have an idea. It was around '98.

Q. And, sir, how long did these trips continue, to your

knowledge?

A. The trips continued even when Mr Taylor took over as

President. The trips still continued until Taylor left

Liberia."

So you see the time frame, Mr Taylor. From 1998 up until

2003 these trips are being made to Sierra Leone. Do you follow?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. "Q. Now, Mr Witness, you talked about General Mosquito and

seeing him on your three trips to Buedu. Do you know if

General Mosquito stayed in Sierra Leone or if anything

happened?

A. Yeah. When Mosquito was in Sierra Leone, at that time

it was after my three trips. I was back to my duty in

Monrovia and General Mosquito and his deputy Issa Sesay had

a problem. This problem used to happen not often. I can

remember that there was a dispute between Issa Sesay and

General Mosquito. Both of them were sent for from Buedu by

Mr Taylor. They came to Monrovia and were taken to General

Yeaten's house. From Yeaten's house they were taken to

White Flower to Mr Taylor's house. That dispute was

settled between them - between the two of them. They

settled the dispute. The one that I can remember again was

General Issa, along with the late Superman, one general,

there was a dispute between Issa and Superman. Issa and

Superman were against Mosquito and they sent for them again

to settle this dispute between them, and when they left

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30634

they went back to Buedu and were still not reconciled."

Now, was there an occasion when you acted as mediator,

Mr Taylor, between Sam Bockarie and Issa Sesay?

A. Never. I know of no conflict, and I don't think he knows

of any conflict that occurred between Issa and Sam Bockarie, no.

Q. Well, Mr Taylor, the witness is being quite clear about

this and he's going on to suggest, it appears, that you

intervened to mediate in this way or more than one occasion.

Because you note, "Issa and Superman were against Mosquito and

they sent for them again to settle this dispute." What about

this other instance involving Superman?

A. No, there was no dispute that I settled between Issa and

Mosquito and Superman. Never.

Q. When was the first time you met Issa Sesay, Mr Taylor?

A. On my very life, in 2000 was the first time I laid my eyes

on Issa Sesay. When Issa Sesay, with this UN situation, I

invited Issa Sesay to come to negotiate the release. Besides,

before then - and even if you look in Issa Sesay's testimony it

will be clarified - I never saw that man before 2000, ever, in my

life.

Q. And by the time you saw Issa Sesay, where was Sam Bockarie?

A. By this time in - Sam Bockarie was in Liberia still by this

time in 2000 when Issa Sesay came to Liberia, because that is in

around May/June of 2000 that Issa Sesay came to Liberia.

Q. Now, Mr Taylor, were you ever involved in resolving any

disputes between individuals in Sierra Leone?

A. Yes.

Q. Who?

A. Sam Bockarie and Foday Sankoh.

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30635

Q. What about the suggestion being made by this witness that

you were a regular mediator?

A. No, never. But I don't think those men had that type of

confusion that he's talking about. Never, no.

Q. Did you ever meet this Superman?

A. No, I never met Superman. I knew that there was a Superman

and that he was Liberian, but I never met with him to sit down

and talk, no.

Q. Now he goes on, and this is the real thrust of this

testimony that I want us to deal with now that we've set the

scene. So we know what the scene is now, Mr Taylor. He's been

involved in transporting arms and ammunition backwards and

forwards to Buedu and to Mosquito for a while, yes?

A. Yes.

Q. We've got that clear now.

A. Yes.

Q. We now come to the meat of the suggestion. He talks about

Bockarie coming to Liberia in December 1999, yes?

A. Yes.

Q. Page 19850, line 1:

"A. He came along with a huge manpower, bodyguards.

Q. When you say huge, can you give us any kind of rough

estimate of the number of people that came with him?

A. Close to 2,000 men."

Just to clarify that detail, Mr Taylor, because it might be

of importance subsequently, was it 2,000 men?

A. I doubt it. I don't know the exact number, but when he

talks about men here, I don't know what he's referring to. But

if you look at the military man whose testimony we went through

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30636

yesterday or the day before, Jabaty Jaward, he deals with those

numbers. And I don't have a fight with Jabaty's numbers, so it's

closer to me to about 1,000 people in total.

Q. Very well. Let's not quibble over that.

"Q. Do you recall yourself the names of the people that

came with Bockarie that you knew?

A. Yeah, I can remember the late Salami, one Martin, a

computer man for Mosquito, Toasty, General Sheriff. Not

Varmuyan Sherif, but there was another Sheriff from

Freetown."

Then he goes on, line 24:

"A. All those people whom I have named were Sierra

Leoneans.

Q. What happened to these fighters - excuse me, these men

who with were with Sam Bockarie that came into Liberia?

A. When they came they took them - they were received

at Voinjama and taken to Monrovia and all his men whom he

had brought, the manpower, they were put into the ATU.

Mr Taylor gave an order that they should go to the ATU, so

they were sent for ATU training at Gbatala. After the ATU

training they brought them to town and deployed them."

He explains what ATU means and how they used to dress, and

we're not quibbling with that, are we, Mr Taylor?

A. No, we are not.

Q. And then he goes on to deal with a particular assignment

that he was given, page 19859, line 1:

"Benjamin Yeaten called me to take up assignment with him

and I was with him. I was with Benjamin Yeaten when Sam Bockarie

crossed. Then for the safety of he himself and Sam Bockarie,

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CHARLES TAYLOR



Page 30637

because they wanted a Liberian security to be assigned to Sam

Bockarie just in case there is an information which could be

passed over to Benjamin Yeaten, it was then that he gave us that

assignment, that was what I said."

So he has now been assigned to Sam Bockarie by Benjamin

Yeaten. Now, just pause there, Mr Taylor. Is it the case that

Liberian security personnel were assigned to Bockarie when he

arrived in Monrovia?

A. Yes. Some intelligence people, yes.

Q. Very well.

A. I don't know who, but yes.

Q. "Q. Where did you stay when you were on this assignment?

A. I had my house right opposite the White Flower,

Mr Taylor's house."

Was there such a resident opposite your house for this use?

A. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It's likely, but I'm not sure

because most of the buildings within the general area, securities

would try to settle in them. But it's possible. It's possible.

Q. Now, he comes on to deal with this relationship with Sam

Bockarie.

MR GRIFFITHS: I don't know if that might be a convenient

time, Mr President.

PRESIDING JUDGE: I think it would be.

We'll adjourn for the day.

Mr Taylor, there's an order not to discuss your evidence.

We'll adjourn until 9.30 tomorrow.

[Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 4.28 p.m.

to be reconvened on Thursday, 29 October 2009

at 9.30 a.m.]

I N D E X

WITNESSES FOR THE DEFENCE:

DANKPANNAH DR CHARLES GHANKAY TAYLOR 30492

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR GRIFFITHS 30492

Taylor trial transcript - 28 October 2009 - Special Court for ...

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