Punjab Legislative Council Debates Vol-X-B 1927
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Transcript of Punjab Legislative Council Debates Vol-X-B 1927
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President. The Honourable Khan Bahadur Cha.udhri Bha.ha.b-ud-Din.
Deputy PTesident. Sardar Habib Ullah.
SecretaT,Y to the Council I Sardar Abna.sha. Singh. Assistant Secretary to the Council.: Haikiin Ahmed Shuja.a •.
PRINCIPAL OFFICERS OF THE PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE. COUNCIL.
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. - PUNJAB .LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. - LIST OF MEMBERS. -
EX-OFFICIO MEMBERS AND· MINISTERS. · .. The Honourable Khan -· Bsbadur :Mian Sir Fa.zl-i-Husain, Kt:, Revenue-
Member to Government, Punjab. - · The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency, K.C.V.O., KC.I.E.; C.1;3.E.,
.-. I.C.S., Finance Member to Government, Punjab. _ The Honourable Sardar - Jogendra -Singh, Minister for Agriculture (Sikh),
Land-holders. · · · · · -Thi/Honourable Mr: Manohar Lal, M.A., Minister -'for' Education (Punjab
University). · _ ·- - · · - · -- The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon, Minister • for Local · Self-Govern
ment, Shahpur East (Muhammadan), Rural. !.-OFFICIALS NOMINATED.
··-·-~ #1?-ton, Mr. H. F., Secretary to Government, Punjab, Public Works ·~ - Department,Jrrigation Branch. Astbury, Mr. A; R, M.LC.E., Secretary to Government, Punjab, Public
Works Department (Buildings and R9l\d$. Branch). __ _ Beazley; Mr. J. G., I.C,S.; Secretary to Goverrunent, Punjab, Transferred
Departments. - - - - - - __ _ - .Cowan, Mr. H;, M., I.C.S., Home S~ret~ry to Government, Punjab. .;
-Cra.ik, Mr. H; D., C.S.L, I.C.S., "Financial Commissioner and Secretary"to Government, Punjab, Development Department. _ _ _ -
·. 9urrie,J\fr. M~ M. L.,I.C.B., ~egal,Rememl>raµcer and" Sec~etary toGovern- . ment, Punjab, Legislative Departnient . - · _ ·- ·
_ ·.Emerson, Mr. R. W., 'o.r.a, C.B.E., I.C.$., Chief Secretary· to . Govern- - ment, Punjabi · _ _ . - . . '~Gill,. Colonel, C.A.,. D.P.H., I.M.S., Assistant Dir~tor of Public Health,
Punjab. · . . "'-- King, Mr. C. M., C.S.I., C.LE., ·1.c:s., Financial Commissioner/Punjab._
'.Muza:ffar Khan, Khan Bahadur Nawab, Director of: Infcmnatioµ. Bureau, Pw:i"ab. - - · -, . . . . . J_ '---,-. _: . ·.. . . . . . . . . . . --·
··~-:Pwm~J7u:-;w.s.,.s.ecretary 'to Government; Punjab, Finance Depart- ment. _ - _- -, _ _- _ · · ·
.Banderson, Mt;·R,T.KS., Directol' oi.Publie Instruction,J>unjab. Wilson; Mr:_ W. R.; I.C.S., Revenue Secretary to Government, Purij~~.
- II.-NON-OFFICIALS NOMINATED; Alidul. Qadir, ,:Khan Bahadur,. Shaikh, Sir, Kt., Repr~sentative General
Interests. , - - - - _-_ Byrne, Mr. F. Keays, Representative of the European and .Anglo-Indian. -
communities.
) Bai Sahib, Lala,
-- ) , ..... ~--->---:., ••
ingh, Sardar Bahib, Sardar, Fero epore (Sikh), Rural. ·, Khan Bahadue, Chaudhri, .B.E., Gujrat Ea~t (
I
ingh, Sardar, B.A., LL.B., Mult Division and Shei L
jj , Ram,. Chaudhri, C.I.E;, Hissa (Npn·Muhammaid~n) h t Ram, Bai Sahib, Ohaudhri,: B .• , Lt.B., South-EaJt M mmadsn), Rural. .
a at Ram, Kalia, &i Bshadur, Pan it: M.B.E.., East :and Wes T s (Non-Muhammadan), Urban.
Dh t Bai, Bai' Bahadue, Lala, P jab Industries. 1
Din M mmad, Mr. ·M.A., LL.B., Eas and. West Central T wns m d ), Urbani- '~- ,. · .
Dulil. • d~ iGJ1aiidl;tri, Kamal (Non- uhammadan), Rural nhammad, Shaikh, B.A., LL.B., De~ Ghazi Ifhan.Q
. .. . . " . . . . '. ., . . I ,
Gh ·, Mr. M.A., Representative of the Labouring Classes,. as, Mr. Ernest, B.A., Representa ive ~f Indian Christia s.
t~ Chand, Bai Ba.had~, · Lala, . O.B.E., . Bepresen tive, in er sts. ob rt , Mr. Owen,· Representative o the European and Ang
unities. 1 :
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arayan · Singh, Sardar Bahadur, . rdar, C.I.E., Rep,;rese tati · terests.
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Singh, Honorary, Captain, Sard r Bahadur, I.O.M.,: .V.O, Rep e- tive of the Punjabi Officers Soldiers of His Ma estv' Ind'
' : "
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{Gokul Chand, Narang, Dr, M.A., Pb.D., North-West Towns {Non-Muham medan), Urban. . . . • . . · . . .
,-Go~l D11s~. 'Lafa,-La.h~re and Ferozepore-cum-SheikhupUrll (Non-Muham· madim}, Ru~t ,
,Gopi Chand, Bhargava, Dr. M.B., B.S.; Lahore City {Non-Muhammadan), Uroan. . . . -
1Gray, Mr. V. F., Punjab Chamber of Commerce and' Trades Association _. Commerce ..
Wbib-Ullah, Sardar, Lahore (Muha:inmadan), Rui'al~ - · ' · · - Hans Raj~ ~imda, Jullundur-eees-Ludhiana (Non~Muhammadan), Rural.
.Harbakhsh Singh, Bardar, B.A., Hoshfaq,ur arid Kangm (Sikh), Rural. ·:a:ari" Singh, Sa.rdar, Ambala Division (Sikh), Rural: ,_. c • ' .• - • •
·mra Singh, Sardar, Lahore (Sikh), Rural . . J~ti Parshad, Lala, South-East Towns (Non-Muhammaden), Urban. Kartar Singh, Bedi, Ba.ha, Lyallpur (~ikh), Rural, _ .Kesar Singh, Ohaudhri, Amritsar-cum-Gurdaspur (Non-Muhammadan),.
Rural. .. .Kesho Ram, Sekhri, Lala, B.A., LL.B., Amritsar City (Non-Muhammadan),
Urban. - c ,c. - Khan Muhammad Khan, Wagha, Malik, · Sheikhupum (Muham.m!lidan),
Rural. Labh Singh, Mr. M.A., LL.B. (Cantab), Rawalpindi Division and Lap.ore
Division North (Non-Muhammadan), Rural . . Maq bool Mahmood, Mir, 13.A., B. Lit., Amritsar (Muhammadan), RUX&l. Mohan Lal; · Lala, B.A., LL.B., · North~East Towns (Non-.Mlihainmi:\d:kn),
Urban. . . . , .. ii . - r.. .
Mohindar Singh, Bardar, Ludhiana (Sikh), Rural. Mubarik .Ali Shah; Sayad, Jhang (Muhammadan), Rural. Muhammad Abdullah Khan, Khan, Muzaffargarh (Muhammadan), Rural.
&Muhammad Abdul Rahman Khan, Chaudhri, Jullundur - (Muhammadan), · Rural. · Muhammad Alam, Dr., Shaikh, West Punjab Towns (Muhammadan),
Urban. 1\Iuhammad Amin Khan, Khan Bahadur, Malik, O.B.E., Attock (Muha:rI;llU&·
dan), Rural. Muhammad Hayat, Qureshi, Khan Bahadur, Mian, C.I.E., Bhahpur West
(Muha-lll!l;l~f!an1 Rural. , ' Muhammad Husain~=Sayad, Montgomqry (Muhammadan), Rural.
V Muhammad Iqbal, Dr., Sir, M.A., Ph.D., Lahore City (Muh~mmadan), Urban.
Muhammad Jamal Khan, Leghari, Khan Bahadue Nawab, Baloeh Tuman· dars (Landholders) .
.Muhamm&d R&za Shah, Gilani, Makhdumzada Sayad, M:ult&n West (Muhammadan), Rural.
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1461
1461-71 1471-1506
1506-07
1456
1456-57 1458-60
1429-55
1857~94 1894-1428
1842-56
· 1821-42
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. .Resolntions-« Re control of the sale of artificial ghi Banaspati products
(carried) Re utilisation of the Government of India's remission for
levelling down land revenue (continued) Thursday, the 24th' November 1927.
'Starred questions and answers Tlnstarred questions and answers .. Resolutions-
Re utilisation .of the Government of India's remission for levelling down land revenue (lost)
Re application of the principles of assessment of income tax to the assessment of land-revenue (not moved) ..
Re action taken by Government on resolutions passed and cuts carried in the Legislative Council (withdrawn)
Re Unani and Ayurv~dic system~ of medicines (continued) - Friday, the 25th November 1927.
-Oath of office 'The Punjab La.I1d Revenue (AmendmAnt) Bill (referred to · select committee) . ''The Punjab District Boards (Tax Validating) Bill (Passed) 'Election to the Standing Finance Committee
lll
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'' .. · ' .. '' .Kll°TA'B Snm:e:. BErii, BA.BA (Lyallpur; ~ikh,' RtJiaJ).. . ·~ ,; ;> . ·-_;..::\--.i:, ._;j/:f ::.}}{:1~~(. N~s,:*t··ir»fx,(tU~~~-'Jia" ~~1 .. ·•··':,fl st•:~t~~~~};'_ .f if 1;~i~~1~~;~t;,;~~;t.~:f[j L ·':i. -,·': _ ·_.··, · .H..um.umslt Sma:a; 8...utDA:a-(H~u.:r.$,n(J-cl{a.ngi:a,.Sikh,Bu:thl). -_;,, .. ,--- .. f-'.'._,___;
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'Owmg to the absence ~f tho Bou'ble l~eveune M-emb~~- questions ad·i~.s~ed . to him-, were- amwered by the-membert indicated aga.imt tu.i te•pectlve a11iwer•. - - · · · · · - - ·
B2.
- Huoa VERNACULAR - .MIDDLE Bcnoor., KHANG.A.RH:
_ *268. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable Ministor for- Education. please state-> ·
(a) If it is a fa.ct that the Hugh Vernacular Middle Schooi, KhBuge.rh,, Muzaffargarh district, has boon raised to the - standard of a.
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GRANT OF JAGIRS FOR ASSISTING GOVERNI\IENT A.GAINST , . A KALI AGITATION.. .
*267 .. Lala Bodh Raj : Will th~ Honourable Member for Revenue please state--
(a) if it is a f1:i..ot that Sardar Rahadur Sardar Sadhu Singh Kakar, Honorarv' Magistrate ·bf'· Ariirit,snr; · Chaudhri Ghulam Muham-' mad Man vi Bahawalkote - and Maehrala, Tabsil Nankana; district Sheikhupura, and Sardar Sahib Sardar ·Dewa Singh, Sub-Registrar, Ajnala, district ~~tsar, ~ave been granted jagirs-of the income of Rs. 500, Rs. 250 and Rs. 250,r9spec~ t,ively, · for as1:1istmg the Governmerit against Akal{ agitation and rendering other services ; ·
(b) what, services they respectively rendered. to the Government so far as the Akali agitation is concerned ;
(c) the names of other grantees who were similarlv rewarded in the pastyears fer assisting the Governmsr.t ';i.gainst the Akali pgitation 'l - - ·
1Mr. C. A.H .. Townse~d: (a)- and (b) The honourable member is: referred to .Punjab Government Resolution No. 857-R of Bth April 1927 which was published in the Punjqb Gazette of April, 15th, 1927. The general nature of the services rendered is indicated in that resolution;
(c) The honourable member is referred to Punjab Government Besolu tions Nos.:131·4-00-8~4927, dated the 31st March 1924, 454-R., dated the 2nd March0-l-92&;,a:µd 1117-R., dated· the 5th April 1926, published in the Punjab Gaeeue, dated April 4th, 1924, March 6th 1925, and April 9th 1926,, respectively. ·
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'fRANSFER OF Sus-JUDGES TO_ THE CADRE 0]' :B1xTiu: AsslST.ANT - CoMMlSSIONERs.
*266. -- Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Chief Secretary vkaroe Rtate- (a) if any Sub-Judges have recently been or are going to be transferred.
to the cadre of Extra Assistant Commissioners : (b) if so, how many 'and under what conditions ; · (c) .what will be the position of such Sub-Judges in respect of the
existing Extra Assistant Commissioners ? . Mr. H. D. Craik: (a) and (b). In order to fill up vacancies in the
cadre, 12 Sub-Judges have been permanently transferred to the Executivf'" Branch of the Punjab Civil Service under axis-ting conditions of service,
(c) Their seniority bas not yet been determined in all cases, but will be fixeu having regard to the position which each officer occupied on the Juuioial
. side, his length of service, ote.
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72~ BTARRlllD QUESTIONS AND ANSWERF!.
927. PUNJ:AB. J..EGISl,ATlVE
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I I i OUNCJ:(i,. [18lrai
. I :. Raj. l . \,. ! \· high school without, the. sa ctiotj of the Dir~ctor of ?JStruction p,n~ withou.t n?cc sary expenditure ·1 bein m tho Budget of tho District oard ;
1 . } the reasons for such a hasty ectio ; ! • 1 ,
). if it is a fact the,t tho Hoadmast r of ltho said school iw en going to hi) appointed soc nd mastor to th~ :~gh s Leish, a few months ago, was complained a.gain$t py the of Leiah md that he was not appointed thoro ; J !
) if it is a, fact .that tho ~id middle school was raised fr?m the · . of vernacular middle sch I ¥> that of, Anglo- ern
_ . middle school only in or abou July 1926? I ; . ' I : onoorable Mr. Manohar Lal (a) 1Yos; tho distp.qt oard
. t class to the school without tho revious approval bf G vem ma t r is under consideration. Provis on .has boon m&da :iI't t o B
u get o meet the additional expenditure equirod. 1 j ·
(b) ;rt is stated tha.t this sch~l wes rai ed to t?e status ~f ~ igh esp ns to strong representations by t public, and thl),t lm y
u ils ed and, ware eligible for promoti to the ninth cla.s~. l (c) y; s, I : (d). e vernacular middle school at garb had prev!io~sl op · nal
lish c sses and was converted into a anglo-vemacular] ~ dle ay l 6. I i \
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VERNAOULAR MIDDLE. S oor., MAILSI, ! 1
. • . Lala Bodh Raj : (i) Will the Honourable Minister or E ple s state - : i i
( ) if the people o! Mailsi~ Multan ist1ct; reprasent~d; t the authorities to raise the stat s of! Vernacular iMf e S
· Mailsi, to that of an Anglo-Ve ac*lar Middle S~h90l; ( ) f the area of the tahsil is 64 mile x 48 miles, andTwµe her · is a
fact that there is not a singl An~lo-Vemacular mi dle- c ool in the taheil ? . , j i
.. : ~ii) If -the reply to part (a) be in the a.~a.tive, will the ono ble
· ·.ste .. r p · se·s. ta. te. what. action the. dep .. art ent fin•. t .. e n.ds. to. ta.4.e p. n the .t· re-. en tio · f the people ? · · · i I :
Th onoorable· Mr. Manohar : "¥es, a represe*tati n w so a. e, a d it is understood that" the status of the Vernacula.rl ~id e S ool
a.s bee i~d.by the District Board to th t 0£. ~.n: AngJo;Ver~cu ar S ool ' o 1st A ril 1927. i. . : : . ·
. --.- -1 : ! L~LA DEs RAJ, S.UB-0VERBEER, URAl,A DIVISION, :qo. ·R
CHENAB CAN • i I i *27 . Lala Bodh Raj: (i1 Will the onourable Memb~rglfo1 Be
l.sesa.,t , .. I 1 .
. ' . ( ) f i~ -is ~· ·f~~t ~futt the Chief. En 0011, Irrigation Wo~k , P -m-hls--No..-0258-E;- L, date 7th· Beptomber : 1 , .o
that Lala.· D~ &j~ $,ib-Ov see~~ Burale Diyi_~io , · !
°� Ohenab Canal, East Circle, should be pe:rmitted .t9 ·:ap~ly for the leave due to him which :would be granted and t~t Iiilla Des Raj should be clearly made to understand that he woul'd not be allowed to return to duty 'lifter the expiry of the leave ;
(b) if it rs a fact that he was granted 28 months' leave, and that after the expiry of his le~v~ .he intimated to his officers to join the service on or about the 25th August 1924, because in the order granting the laave that he received he was made to under stand that ho would be allowed to retufu to duty after the expiry of his leave;
(e) if it is a. fact that the Supsrintending Engineer wrote to the Chief Engineer in his letter No. 8900, dated the 22nd December 1924, that La.la Des Raj could not be made to retire unde.1' Article 441-C. S. R, nor could he be made to retire on account of continued geperal inafficiency as per his personal register ; ·
(d) if it is a fact that his personal register bears the testimony that he was being promoted frQµi time to time on the reeommenda tion of his immediate officers fot his good- and efficient work;
(e) if it, is a fact that there is I1ot a single entry te~rding his · ineffi,!liency in his personal· register ;
(f) if it is a fact that he had been made to retire under A:rticle 358 (2) ~ of the Civil Service Regulation on the·. plea that· he lacked ui
discipline, a. plea or ground .not covered hy the ~id sectiQn ;~ (.!J) if it is a fact that his on »third pension has been cut down be-
eauso of his being made to retire as stated above? (ii) Will the honourable. membes please 1;1:tat0i why Lala, Des Raj has been
made to retire and why bis pension has been cut. down espeejl.\,lly w.hep. his work ha.s been perl-O'ctly sati:sfaot0ry and efficient th:r-011,gFiaufllis ~ervi,ce ?
(iii) Will the honourable member please lay on: the tabiea copy of the S.u,p!)r~ti.'lI\d~ Elg\Ile'elis l~e:11 :referred to in (e} above? ·
1Mr. J. S~ C. $mi,h t (a) Yes.
(b) Yes, but tho order referred! to, by the hououra.bl~:m:omber contained a typin.g omission of the wo;rd ' not ' which. w.a11 rectified n,ea1),y two months. befi:>re the late sub-ovorseor intima tod hiJ; intenti9n: tQ toturn. to. duty.
(c) Government does not propose: to di;selt>So cotmpondence between· its, offi.q@rs on, suoh 00.S!')s.
(d)r·K(),. (e) No. (ff The wonl " misco,i91~1r " inJ~ Art):ich,. of th'f!. (,'ivil Silm~<r Regnfations..
covered his offence. ·· . •. wX Ito w,1,1,$. gmpted tli~ m.1,1,xJnium Jienrtion: perpiissibl~ un.d@>'.Il th& A~tiQl~
q~o~il. ~Iii Q~;i.e,~jo}! (f>•. .. _ . _. -• · _ -· . , _. (4j) J,ii,lila; l;>e$: ~aj, ID;'~r.Cf\Mnillllreg&tioos\ again~- the: itlte'iig.tity, ~1$i
.su~rior officer which 'f"®'&: displ'O-V:ed: He .. wasvMm:v.er,. gr'ante~ -- tu·lt
1Vide the footnot:e on~' Ult·•·
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at at to of
Vide the foot note on page 723 ante,
272 , Khan Muhammad Abdullah : ;: (i) Will t~oj H ~o ni ~;a o~,!::c::::: t~::s::::: const . ctiJn ~f the ShaJdtJNar al ·
section of the North-Western ilwav motor traffi.cfr m ro wal to Z'lifa.rwal, Bankhatra N~nir · and otl:iet · mpo ta.nt villages has greatly inereased : ,
: ! I . . . hether it is a. fact that there exists only a kudhl!, oad . om
. Na.rowa.l to Zafa.twa} which as ~0011 rendered' ter lID r~Il · _ and dusty by. motor traffic ? ! : , . ! · -: · •
e answers to the above are in he a;ffinnative, wili. µi Ho · ur · st r please state what measures t e Government in~ends to a pt
his inconvenience ? , '
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ROAD FROM NAROWAL
. . SHAH NEHR, M ~IAN.
~- .• '. *27 • Chaudhri Ram Singh: (i) ill 1the
HonourabIJ em e enu b pleased to state- i · ! :
.( } . hether it is n fact that the Dep rtm~nt of Shah ~a~r, Muk charged a :fine from the sa dats who remaia ab ent days fixed for tho work to be dond by the varioua h llas ;
hether the said department em loys ion those or oh th foll . days paid labourers to fill t e 'p~aces of thoie jw o r absent from the work? · · :. ' . , ! ·
' I ' the answer .to part {b) be in the egative, will he kindl stat ds n which the said fine is charged? : j :
(ii.i) ill the honourable member also kindly state the rt~ er of . ho were employed by tho Dopa tment of Shah N~h:i:, +\fuke g t e ast two sessions of .tho working f various halla,s ~ni oMer t
t e D ae s of persons absant from oach h llq? · I· 1Mr . A.H. Townsend: A reference as b~11n made to tho !Io
d _ n l.'i ee pt of .reply an answer will. be gh en. J . j ! :
permi ible under ':'!
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(1'8'.('Hj ' '
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REO-ULATION Oil' Aocouxns · BILL.
*2-76. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu · Ram : Will the Honourable .Finance Member kindly state-
(a) whether the proposed ~Regulation of Accounts Bill- Ms been drafted ; · ·· ·
(b). whether the sanction of the Governor-General in Council has been obtained for ta€! introduction ofthis Bill in tlitl'Coiincil; ~.
(c) if the draft has not been prepared or the riecess~·SMchlon ~~, obtained, how Jong the drafting and the obtaining· of sanction is expected to take 'r ·
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmoreiicy: (a) Alternative -~ggestions-regarding legislation, all of which present elements of diffioulty_. ...-are under_ the consideration of the Govemn:ient. · ·
(b) No, and
ORDINARY· EXPE!ITDI.TURE · FOR 1926-27 .. - . -- *275. Rai Sahib ·chaudhri Chhotu. Ram : . Will the Ronourabl~
Finance Member kmdly state the total amount· of ordinary expendittire budgetted for 1926-27 and the amount actually spent ? ·
... - The· Honourable Sir· Geoffrey deMontmorency: .· Inregaxd to the .aetual expenditure in 1926.27 the honourable member is referredto the memorandum explanatory of the Supplementary Demands prepared by the Finance Secret11:ry. On reference to the budget volume fol'..tb.~..year-1927-28 'he will find that .the modified grant for 1926-27 relating to ordinary revenue -expenditure amounted to Rs. lJ,78,58,ooo. . :. ",
AoTUALS OF REOEIPT OR EXPENDITURE· FOR· 1926-27. ·· *274. Rai · Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram: ' Will the Honourable
Finance Member -kindly state whethet he. is- in a. position to state the actuals pf. receipt or expenditure· for the year 1926 .. 27 ? If so, will· he kindly place
-on the table a statement showing only the totals of actualreceipts or expendi- ture (ordinary) giving at the same time the revised and estimated figures for the same ? . . ' The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deM9ntmorency :, .. The honourable -member is referred to the memorandum _explanatory of the Supplementary Demands prepared by the Finance Secretary. He will find th€! estimates
-of receipts and expenditure for 1926-27 in the budget volume for the year ·1927-28.
~ r .. ~.- .... \
-, . •, .. ".:J COTTON··. CROP.
. . .. *273,:. Rai'. Sahib Chaudbri Chhotu Rani : . Will ·. the Honoura~!e •. ¥m,ister .for Agricultme- ki'J;ldly state the extent.o.'f·the area under .irrigate-d · ..cotton cropthis year and the same last year? ·-
The Honourabl~ Sardar Jogendra Singh·: The Honourable 1\fember is referred to page 78 of the Supplementary Gazette, dated the 11th February 1927. : .rr ..
727
l ·~
I • e the footnote O~ pilgt, .723 O'fl.~.
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PPNJ-A.B LEGIBLATlV:E ovN'cn.. [ lEha ... 1:';.. :!. ·'· , • • • . '. _:'.,. : • -
·.·on~ Geoffrey .deMontmprency.J ; ! i . . . . ( > _ . 1?.en. r qr(li~io~ regarding the a . ~~tive to be a4of t ~ li . t k<3n a bill m·draft will be forwarded t the .Governor-General in 1-i: th . urj)ose of obtaining sanction to the ~troduction of 11 m. t · s a e is reached, it· is not anticipate tMt · any · consid~rablb del
·-b · in ol ed in obtaining sanetion. ! · i . J .• .• · . ;RESENT~TION OF ZAMINDARS I- Tm\ EXCISE DE;~T ENT.
• . Rai Sahib Chaudhri Cbb · tu Ram : Will j the Mi,nia11>1o.r for Agriculture kindly state-" i . , I ;
( what steps, if any, he has take· dntmg the timelbJt een . discussion . and now to im rove 'the poor repres nt.a
zamindars particularly Hin zai;ni:ndars in th~ Ex ise . ment : • I :
w.hat is the number of Excise Inspectors and S11b'-l pee the Amba-la Division, a pr .-em!n_ently Hindu Di isio an ¥hat is !!l~ number of stat tonr Hindu agri(l1ltltUI]ists s . · g 3:s Inspectors and Su_l;l-Ins ectori> SPparately,I ..ajS .rgai ' the t,;>t_l\l ~~mber of Hindu Ins . tors and Snb-In~p!3c~9rs;
(~ how many (!iJlpointments of I 1>ecto. s and Snhf Irispeoto hav been made since the begi ing pf the current : 1anci (i) in the Province and (ii) in tI;ie Ambala Divisi n a many of ~hem are statutory Hini:Iu agricultnr,st~ ?
b !lf> sioners who are fully alive t th1. desirability f of lo · · JillU ty to monopolize thes-e appointm nts. ! ,
(b enty. Of these 9 are Hindus, being statutory agrie t. -(,e' e in ·the Province who was a Si h. f one in the f ~ball~ Di.
· _L · I l RoHTAK-BIµWANI AiriwAY.. J 1 ··
_ . • &.l S•hil~ O.•adhri Clabo ~~ : Will 1t.h,~ : on emb ~ or RMenue kindly state· whethe the necessary agrt"leµte~t _utb Punjab and Bombay Baroda a Central India Railw;1 s h
;,jw·o· y b!·n·m··· ;. ~.::~.oe::. ~. a~ ~~:r./ JZ::irn tion: .• w. ork ~n. the r ... ~ht k.-B ..' > i ' ·w. S. Donnan : The Punj b Government uhc(e tand
n goti ti ns with the Southern Punjab nd Bombay, Bar6d~, nd I, die. . ways are still in progress.' / ~:- : '
.. - '~-- ·i Ii ltonTAK,.BBIWANI Ali!D Ro TAKil!A.Ns1 Bosns. : ._. -" .-.- .··-··., , .... ·- ,. . . . . .... . . ' .
. · Rai Sahib. Chaudhri Cbho u Ra-m : Will the ffim.a11je; for:Ag'!ionlture: kindly··state-- ; j
J,... 1.,. __ _. I ..:._. •. • .· • - - •• • • • ' • • I '
t: , · -: .: :( t~!:) dates on which the Roh ta Bhiwani and Ro*a~ were taken over by the Pub re W;.or-ks DE1partrµeht
. (k ~ ~b~ ~en~~:~~.~~~: rofd~,; i : · {ti the. a:verage amount of money r nir4d per miJe.'toi kee
road in a satisfQfltory state o rep~ii'{ '
1 Ville the footnote on page 723 ·a'l!U.
MILITARY GRANTEES.
*280. Rai Sahib Chauclhri ChhQtu ·Rani : Will the· Honourabiai Member for Revenue kindlv 'state- .
, i .: .· . .. . --··· . . . .. .. .
{a) whether under the ·existing rules a .military grantee 111ust sattla· · on hi1c1 land personally' or it is opento 'him to send his grown.
111,> sons or other near relatives to settle on it ; ·· · (fa). w~ether, if ~t is. obligatory oµ the gra,ntee_- to s~ttle personally
· 'on. t~~ land, Government will consi~er tJ;1,e ~g'visibility ·of so modifying the rules as to permit a retirnt mHitary officer to . send any of ais majOF SOJis 01' other near.re}atives·-to settle on .t)le lailld o~ hj$1 ~llall?
1"1r. C~ ~ H. Towns~nd: If the honourable member'squestion relates to the 75,0()Q: .. a1tr~; s~t. asjd~ Jo;r; mµi,ta:ry gi-a,:nteea in..· t¥, Nilf J)~r; (',olony t*r ~S~fi;.t() (a)}~.1I;I.; tl\l;~. 11'.~~~9:tiv,&, a;r:t~ ~O ~~)}11, ~b~,1i\~Wt~'\1i~· , . ~-
(e) The Bohtak-Bhiwani road is in very fafr order, Some miles require i:~#~oiiig and these will be. taken in band these rains, ~ . . . ; .. -, - .' ., . -.' ; . . ', . . . ' ; . ' - . . -
Tlte Roptak-Ha,.nsi section of the Delhi-Montgomery road was. in a; .. ~wm:itable condition when it was taken over from the l)istrict Board. lt bas since been patched· up. Five miles have recently been reme:tall~ .. ¥et.i;i.l 'has b_«:,e.n collected for resurfacing the remaining bad miles and. pro- - '\!id,~d ~b.ere ~s_ s~ffioient ·rail\, it i~ hoped, th,at most, if not all, of:these ~ be · c,9µ1;JQ1i~~tE;ii( i~ tl;l~ o,o,ime of Ow 1;1ext three 9~ four nionthfi.. · · ·
(J}, Ev~:ry · ~fm~·· is. l?eiw::i: made to. fow:e tbe . ~~ds, : tho,r9r1gJ;ux 1:epair,~\J ·· by next autumn. · · ·
3,23,161 Rohtak-Hansi road
(d) the amount of money spent on these roads sinee they were taken over;
(~) ~hether : the present state Of these roads is not, V~ty une&tfsfac- . . . J9ry; ' (ft wliether tpe Government will direct these roads to be put, int,Q ~.
. . . . ~t!\te of thorough repair by next autumn ? . , . 'fhe Hono~.-able Sardar Jogendra Singh: (a) The Rohtnk-Bh~wani
and Bohtak-Hans] roads were taken over by the Public Work11 Departmeµ~. in June 1925 and May 1924, respectively.
(b) The length of these roJl,~s in ollarge of the Public Works Department: a.re as follows :- · · t t ·, ·
-- - Miks
Rohtak-Bhiwani 27 · 34 - Bohtak-Hansi 42
• ; t
(c.) ~e- n;i,t1.ge cost ()f :in~tftllli,ng the.se metalled roads in a aatisfactory- state of repair has been estfo1ated at Rs. 1,100 per mile per annum. ·
. (d) ~~ .a:rnouri~ spent on these roads since ,tb~y. were taken over is as. follows :- · · · ' · t
Rs. Rohtak-Bhiwani road 82,697
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so PUNJAB LEGiSLATIVE OOUNOIL, [ism Jm, I • I
INTER-VILLAGE Co Mm~10~TIONS. 1 ;
1. Rai Sahib Chaudhri C tu jRam· : Will i the Hon inis e for Local . Self -Govemmsnt I · dly I state the amo t of hie as been spent in each of the las five years on the imp ovo
· . e communications as cistingui hed horn ordinary roa s ? .llop.o:urable Malik Firoz n, ·tioon : It is regl'.E3 ted
l'e available, i I
I I· ' ! ·! i,
ToT.A.L Pao BITI9N. i 1- 1 ' . Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chh tu Ra:m : Will ' t~e
mis e for Agriculture kindlv state- : • ! · · - . . •' : i
( ) four. districts with the least onsumption of liq_upr in t vmce ; ! I i .
. ( .) ,~, hethe; he is prepared t~ intr due~. total prohibi~io , ~ bf them as an experimental easFe? j i
h Honourable Sardar Jogen a S~ngh: (a) :qer~ haz Kha uza a garb, Hohtak and Jhang, 1 i
() No ..
i
S LEOTION Of ZAILS FOR OONOENT ATI~N OF THE AJTIVI BENEFICENT DE ART¥ENTS.
* 8 . . Rai Sahib Chaudhri Ch otu ! Ram : Willi the Hon · er for Agriculture kinaly state- : - . i •
(a whether there was a proposal befoke Government' t , sel t on zail in each aistrict for the concentration of !the cti. t es o
· beneficent· departments ii, order to demonstrat eff ivel throughout the province th effi~acy of these ~ctiv ties,
the date on which this question was prst mooted ;1 j
whether the proposal has bee dropped, and, if ~o wh an Why; I
. I if the proposal is still alive, th« s age -which it has reacbe
(e _ whether_pfovi~9n will b_e mad 1!1 ~A_~ next b~dge~'-t.Q _gi_!e_ :{foot . . -:;t it, h lly or partially ? · ·
'l'EMPEitANCE . Ass ClA'.1.'iONS. '
_ . Rai Sahib•· Chaudhri C otu Ram.: Wilt t~e Hon inis er for_ Agriculture kindly state w eth~r he is prep~rM to s emp i nee· As.::;ociatiob..s in order to e · hie them to engage ore h~ i e to help 'them in carrying on an actitity and effe~tiv. e .I prop airi t he evils of drink ? : i ,
I i ' ,- •
Honourable Sardar Jogen ra ~ingh : H . is ) essenti . cmp r nee Associatiotis should be entire de~endent on t~e j)11 lie f
-s ppo . The Government, however, ppreeiates the good wor , thes · ~ eiet es are doing and is considering the question of helping th se s ietie .
· pro ting the cause of true temperan ' ·
Iu.HU'rA FARM.
-*287. Rai Sahib Chaudh:ri Chhotu Q.am : Will the Honourable J\finister for Agriculture kindly state-
(a) the capital cost of the Kahuta .Farm from._.tl:ie beginning up till now·
l"' ' ·-.---· . . .... 1
(b) the recurring annual expenditure of all kinds on the Farm ; (c) the number of years for which the Farm bas been in exist
ence; {d) the total area of true bara land reclaimed so far ;
PANCHAYATS •.
*286. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram : Will_-the .. Honourable . Minister. for· Local 8131£' Government kindly state wheth.er the five offioera for whose appointment provision was made in the budget of 1927~28 in order to foster and popularise Panchayate have been selected; if not, what are the reasons for the delay?·
The Honoiir~ble Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : No provision was· made in the,current year's budget for the five officers in question; but a supple· ::mentary demand is being made in the present session.
MODEL B.i8TI8.
*285. Rai Sahib Chaudhri-· Chhotu Ram·: Will the .Honoutabla Minister for Local Self-Government kindly state whether Government is prepared to devise a ~odest_J;uheme of instituting model bastis to demon
. strata to the people tlie'advantages and importance of. sanitation ? ( . -: - . . . .• ' . . : '.
The Honourable. MaU.k Firoz Khan, _ Noon : Government are not convinced that model bastis would serve the purpose, The lay-out plans of village abadis in .colony towns have been made on scientific lines, but so far as actual sanitary conditions are concerned these villages are not very much better than others. Now that each district is being provided. with a District Medical Officer of Health, Government hope that these · officers will be able gradually to impress on the public the importance of
.. sanitation. " The cost of establishing model bastis in . all districts would be.prohibitive. The question of the measures that can be taken to improve, tbe sanitary conditions and amenities of village Jiff' is under consideration. · --
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh:. \a)Yes. · . {b) In J anua,ry 1924. ·" , .
(c) The proposal bas not boon dropped. (d) Four' zails, i.e., Bohillianwali; Cbakwal, Gobana and S-idhwan in the
-M~za:ffargarh,. Jhelum; Bohtak. and Jullundur districts, _respectively, have been selected for concentrated work by the Departments of Agriculture, Education, Public Health, Co-operation, Veterinary, Communications and Medical Relief. Schemes are still awaited from some of the departments
- concerned, (e) No definite reply can be given at this stage.
t -·
GOVERNMENT 'IlANNE y AT SHAHDARA.I i * . Rai Sahib . Cbaudhri C otu Ram : Will ith Ho t :rfor.Ediicatiori]rindly'~tatl+--'- · - j i
(a} w:.lm:.t stftps,: if any;, have he n taken to effect :r:e economy in the manage ent of the Gove at Shahdar.a : ·
.!,,-,·1-_, -.
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CONSOLIDATION HdLDINGS. I I ·. 9. R,i -Sahib Chaudhri C otu Ram: Wi1l th
~. t r for Agriculture kindly state- . : I · (a.) the name of the district in the north-west Punja]? wit
holdings; . . . (b) the name oj the district with the ;smallest holdings · th
east Punjab; i ! i (c} the steps, if 8:IlY, which have een taken to effect the cons
of holdings in these distric s ; • i '
(d) whether, if no such steps h ve so far been t~kt;ln, Gov proposes to take such step. and, if so, when ? ·
e Hono1rf8b)e Sardar Jogen ra 'Singh: A refere_ce _s be n, O the local officers andon receipt f reply an answer MH · e gi 0· •
! i
hsndhri Chhotn R~m.] . i ; · I
e) the total income from the Far from the .beginning·~ till the income per acre from the bar,dand on which 1 tije pr
reclamation h~s been mos successful or most oomplet . -years 1925-26 and 1926-27 ·
) the income per acre from th land referred to !iq.i ( in two yea!'S?
e H~nourable · Sardar Joren a $ingh : a Rsv2,86,010. · 1
) Rs. 24,478 (average of past 8 ears). (c) Nine years. ( About 75 acres. (e) Rs. 17,798. f) Rs. 15. (g -Rs. 2-4-0 and Rs. 8-6-0, respec ively,
' I : . . . ' I ·- . WHEAT ELEVATO . AT !LYALLPUR. I i '
. . . Rai_Sahib ~baudhri Cbb tu Ram: Will the Ho urab e- W!ll t. r J;Qr Agnculture kindly state- : I ,
a) the capital cost of the wheat e ;vator at Lyallpnri; i :: ::~t===1:r:~\= :;it::: i·rlent. · a'} the uses to which the elevator is put ; ! ! ·-
(e) the actual utility of the eleva or to the Provin~e f e Honourable Sardar Jogen a $ingb : (a), (b) · a d ( ). T -~ ·
hQJJ _ able member is referred to th reply given to I Cou I cil esti n No.~ 6 .0 on the 9th of October last. I
( and (e). Do not arise.
i : [18rH JUL 192 ~ • P.UN.JAB 'LE(HSLATI-V.EJ cotrxoir;
~~-"'- .· ....
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. ' *294. Rai Sahib Chaudhri . Chhotu Ram : Will the Honourable·
Finance Member kindly· state:~ (a) wlietlier or not the :figures relating to the proportion of zamindars
as given in the consolidated list showing · the proportionate representation of classes and communities in the various branches 0£ the public service are based on a definition of. the word zamindars under which many non-statutory zamin-
. dars would figure i;i,s agriculturists ; . (b) whether this definition was found difficult t.o work and .to yield
. results which were not sufficiently definite, accurate 0!. reliable ;: (c} whether, in 6:rder .to obtain more reliable data, tlie Government
has altered. this definition to that of a statutory agriculturist ;.. (d) whether fresh :figures 'are under preparation in accordance with tho-
- definition as now altered ; . . - .
(e) when is it expected that the fresh :figures will be available.? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: . (a) A c~n~us of'
Government servants in the Punjab was held on the 1st January 1926; Gov ernment servants being classified according to religion and as agrioulburists- - or non-agriculturists. The definition of the term agriculturist (or zaimndar) given inparagraph 2 or.Punjab, Government. resolufion No. 4572°S~;·dated
AGRICULTURISTS IN PUBLIC SERVICE.
MUSLIM SESSIONS ,JUDGES.
*293. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram : Will the Ohief Secretary kindlysupply in respect of ths three Muslim Sessions Judges. who were referred to as being· zamind ars in a Government Press oom mun·iq11e issued in April or ~fay l~Bt the following particulars, or such of these particulars as can be supplied. without u~easonable amount of labour and as is not regarded by Government undesirable to supply:-
, (a) the name of these gentlemen; . (b) whether these gentlemen are statutory agriculturists or zamin
dars under the broad definition adopted in the resolution of' 1919;
(c) if statutory agriculturists, the tribes to which {hey belong; (il) if zamindars under the broader definition, their native places.
of residence, the number of generations for which they have held land, and the approximate proportion which the income from agricultural land in the possession of their families bears. to income from other sources?
Mr. H. D. Craik: (a)-Govtirnment prefers in this case to adopt its, usual practice of avoiding.reference to the naI?es of particular officers.
(b) Two of the officers in question are members of tribes notified asagri: cultural tribes under the Alienation of Land Act. The third belongs to an. Afgh!l>n tribe of the North- West, Frontier Province.
(e) Of the two officers who are statutory agriculturists, 'one is a Bajput, of the Gurdaspur diatrict and the other a Jat oft he Mianwali district.
( d) Does not arise.
• s·rAR HUJ QI".1·.s,:cNS AND AN!-WERS', ..
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27 --
233 llf
. ,; _.)
... :~
•· 4
19 ·ss 2lS7
14 31 82
1
l,045
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i ci .
. -1_·:.· ••
.• t .
., ] . :··1 - ....
bordinate ~ri~# .. serviiie
~t~ors ot, po,<ie ,_ _ ead "cODSta.bles . !· · ·
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·_i.
- - ·---
RE0Ru1ntENT FOR 'oLERKs' POST~.- · _'_ :':
*296. Rai SabibCbaudhriChhotu Ram: W:ill the Ohiet, Secretary_ ;.kindly state :- ' ' ·
"'. (a} whether. th~ minimum standard of education required :for .the,~ roeruitmonts: of tho eless dosoribod' . r,s. ' other- clerks ' - in the- -
. consolidated l statement issued by tho Government in July . 1926°.is matrieulation; . . .. ·
, {b) whether.appointment to tho post.of '.other clerks" is by nomina- tion end non by eompotition : -. : ·
+ . ,{c) whethor tho .following figures corroetly indicate tho tepresente.tion· , - · · - of zecnindsr end non-zrcninder Hindus in this class of appoint
monts according to tho said consolidatod f!W.OOIUent :- · ~;- · -; · ·· ; Agricult1¢sts. ·. Non,AgrioulturiBta '~ \Forest depnt;rtient \ 7 56
Public Health departmenf 3 18, "r; .Agricultilral ·:department · · . · · . 4 · 21 • · Fina.ncio.FCm:nmitlliioners' office : ~· 5 , 13 • :. 'Police depiirthlent ., . . 8. . 31
Office of Land Records ,! • Nil ' · 0 HighCoµrt .. _. - . .-i·.- . '''·-<· 9 ·;·,···-- .. ·77. ~••:t~~~:;j-:· .: ·i('· r ·D> Medicald~pa.rt~e!].t _, •• · •• .• :14'·\~ _,,,_ -M~:· 5f::i::Wor':t:l~ment; Buildingii ~nd Roa~· ~ ·, - . . - « ~ir \\"eterinii.ry department ., . 3 .8
. \ , ' , . . ' ·. -~ - .. (<J) whether Government will consider tho advisability 9£ - rectifying
'L - . · she inequalitieg' disclosed abovo? if - • · : ·. :· • · • ·. - _ . , . . . .- ·- -- ,-·r .. - . -.... . - ,. . -»: .
Mr~ H. D. Craik: '(a) -Gonorally, yes. .·.·. . . . . -. . .: (b) Heads ofD~pa.rtmkzits'.r,i;o empowered to .me.k~-appoilitments as they
"think - fit, -n is understood that iJ;J: most departments :appointments are .. ·.. . - . I . • - . - .. - . . .mado _by~ P?Illinli.tion. r· ,1 . - ·
·,., {(c{'.tes/ ::..· :: '.,; ~i.--: . . . . . . ·,· t(d) .Th~ Mtention o~_ithe._ honourable niQ~ber: is -invited ·to paragraph
· .. 18 of Punjab Govommont.' resolution No..'. 4572~8':'~ _ ·dated : the .· 3rd of "Oc{Rber .. 1.~19. :>i -, - .. ·~: , - -·:-iC" c.
l · ... --· "c- _:)
.>: ,\[ _0 ., · •· ' ·.:: S~\ •ikE'.)i·QR~J.~f!0;:'79 ,U~D. A~~~-.'., ?' .C . . 7~7:~i (d) whether Goverpment will. consider the ad-visability ·of taking
l~ .necess~ry~ st~P,~ _to impr.~ve t~o ··obvionslj}1'.1,a.dequate·_rept~· sentation of.Hindu samindars m the above-_posts?, • . --- >>, c :·,
_ .. The Honot1rable Sir G~ffrey deMontmorency: · (a) .By·selection -:.trom, atnongst qualified persons. . . . .
·. (b) This is a matter ot opinion, but. honourable ,1IJ.e:gibef-is well a.wa.re ·,of the views put fonyard by Govemment in t~e:resolu.tion of .. Ootober 1919.
• (c) Yes. I , .. (d} ,'..l:l?,e .honourable ~!JD\p0r is again referred - to the 'resolution .of --
'-"Ootobe:r•1919 to which Govemment is resolved to give effect in recruitment.:-'1,
I~ ~--- r·
.·~·
---··1·
..
921:
,hiaf.
ourt: tha
.. ;. ion
the- ~
of
,IVI{._ JUDIO!l\.L . BRANCH OF TH
* 7 Rai Sahib Chaudhri C kindly state :-
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE C UNCIL;
i i i ! I I '
[ l~T~ ULY I ' ..
PROVINCIAL SElljVIpE
hotb Ram : Will
' I POLICE AND JUDICIAL BRANO ES !OF SERVICE.I
*29 ... Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chho Rapi : Will th~ her Finance kindly ata to :- ! i
. ! (a hether it is not a fact that zam daijs_, Hindu, Mtj.slim or S
?f tho ~nth7Ea~te~. Punjab are_ :very mea~oI,- re , rese . m the polico and Judicial brane es of the service i! : .
• I I · '' hether any Jat, Rajput, Gujar, hether Hindu, SiJµi;o ·Mita· , . · belonging to Rohtak, Hisser, Gufaaon or. Kaµt!)il ·dis. 'ts. 41Jos. o.ver. ~n appointed a D puty Superintendent f P ca by direct n9i:ni,.~ei.tion ? · :
The onourable Sir Geoffrey de ontmorency : '!he tten · u f t e h n urable member is drewn to pa graph 3 of the im~w r
( ·} what stops, ifany, ha Yo so far bo .n taken to consult; tho igh on tho subject of strengthoni g tl:10 zamindar :C·loilJiont · civil judicial branch of tho p ovineial aorvico ; ! ;
'hethet a fui:>.l docision will be oaohod before thei nex sele · of sub-judgos takes place ? j • I !
·. D. Craik: (a) 'rho High c :wt ~c.s boon P,d~rokso on i '. I ·: ·
e.roi whon tho nqx~ s locti
i i • I I i
JUDIOIAL BRANCH OF THE PR VINCIAL SERVICE( i _. R. ai S. ahib Chaudhri Chhot R4m : · Will trilo i ble ·
a her fo Finance kindly stato :- . · , i hethor tho figuros e.geinst ' jud eiol ~ranch ' on page 1 o . cmsolidatod statement relate nly: to the civil jµdici 1 b
Qf the provincial service or c ver tho criminal judici ,1 b of the service also ; , · l ;
()W many of the 18 Hindu ag culturists as e.ga~~t 2 non-agriculturists belong to ,S tutqry egrioultural :t bos ;
O"'." many, if eny, among those 18 a~culturists ~r~ ats, aj- pnts, Ahirs, Gujors, Sainios r 'Bors; belonging lto Ro t k,. Hissar, Gnrgaon and Kamal· stricts ; i ! ·
ow many, if any, of the 36 Mu · agriculturists in th ju · 'al branch are -Rajputs, Jats, o Gujars from Rohta , ·s r,.
~- Gnrgaon axfd . Kamal distriei ? i ; ·: The : _ ono11rable Sir Geoffrey de · ontril~rency : (~ rh . fi
id ot · code members of tho provincial rviee holding 'Li~t~d pos (b) t ·(d) The honoiirablo member is refe~ed to the !st~t men
9'2 w _ c will be supplied to the House hortly and to thf re ly w i 11 ws t · uestion No. 299. ! . - . I
. Vol. vn.frpages,1jM_;__,i1sl ~nd"}>lige·ijxU ofAppendh; vm. ' , .... •. . ... : '.c- • ·. • C'2
74 10 I -
Hindu Jats
lrluhamm!!,dan :Qa.jputa
94,
40 ·-
_ MILITARY ·rn.mEs:_ *301. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Cbhotu· Ram 1 Will · tho Honourable- .;
Member for Finr..::ico kindly sta~ :- . (a) the principal military tribes in the . Rohtak . district ; (b) the measure of ,representation-of these tribes among the constables~
head constables _a.nd sub-inspectors of the police .foree in the, district ? · · ' . · ·
The H~~~ur~l,l~. $it Geoffrey deMontmorency : (a). The pritioipa]:;. military tribes in 'the Rohtak: district :a:re-'Hindu, Jl\ts and Muhammadan., Rajputs. · - -r · • " · • · ·
· (b) The ~num.ootot :me1fo01onging' to these trioes enlistoa. irrthe. polio~r:-~ force oUhis- district is e.s ~follows :-,- · · ··
' e-.
. !NStiEOTOR 01'' POLIOB~
•300. Rai Suib Cha~dbri Chhotu - Rani : Will tho Honourable Member for Finance kindly.st,aite :~ _
(a) whether "in answer to e. Council question put in 1918 Govem~ ment gave an assurance thMi at lea.st one Hindu Jat .would. bo appointed Inspector of Police as soon as possible;
(by wliether e.ny Hindu· J'&t· has so. fe.r boon e.'ppoin.ted ·as Inspector- of Polico by diro~t nomination or 'by promotion, and if not,~ s; •
whothHr Govornn:iont will soo its way to tho fulfilment of that .. promise l'.OW ? ' : . • • ._
The llonourahle Si.r -G~ffery deMontmorency: I regret that the- - answer to this question is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honourable member in due course. · ·
' by: the· Honourable 'Sir- J0hn Me.yne.rd to quostiona NoS: 1961- tc,-.19751 or · tho 6th of.July 1925.'. As there explained, en snnueleonsua ie now. held
showing. tho. communities & public. sorvents i!} tho: different,' brenohes Of tho: administration, and Government cannot undorteke to collect further statis~ · ·
.tiea. fo -~~:td ·-to._the. representation ()f members of difforoot sections or· different localities in the public services .
.. 0 '. •·
. . :;:·.'a'·':i.".'·
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iti-·~;;?L{ J ; -s~iiinEri?.(f(iEii~i~~i/i~.t~-w:tns: . _ :, -?Y> .' 'f~~-- ,?:{:(it,·~ · :<' ':;. · : c:.-i:; .=-:~:',·<.'-'; .:~
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i i I ;
AMRITSAR ME IOAI! SCHOOL. I :
309. Rai Sahib Chaudhri. hho~u Ram: Will he Mi . ter for Local Self-Government ki dly state:- I I
(a) the number of statutory ag ieulturists, Hindu,' usli , Or . ikh, belonging to the Amba a division who were dmi tted t the Amritsar Medical Schoo last year ; i i ~
(b)· whether he would draw t e attention of t~J rinci l to the advisability of making ome allowance for ithe ba war ness of the Ambala divisio while deciding thfl ppli tion for admission in case of pplieante belonging o t A bala · division ? ! i
e Honourable Malik Firo Khan, Noon: !(c.z) ne J,f s m and one Sikh statutory agric lturists, were admitte to
:.:s· ol, Amritsar, last year. 1 i · i
b) Students are admitted to the Medtcal School with r fere po f · on h1 the pass list. of ~he l\fa_tri ulat~o:1 examinado1 a d t -0- v nment do not think 1t ad VISa le to issue orders m rde
. ' r~ntial treatment for candidates oming from R·llY p~rlfo Jar.
Manga in the Lahore District Samalkha in the Karnal Distri t , Wahndo in the Gujranwala Di trict:
. . Killurkot in the Mianwali Dist iet I I , I
I ; : .
1
1 1· : ..
I !
I . MORT LITY. I i '
I I j . 308. Rat Sahib Cha:idhri hho~u Ram: Wil~ he
niter for Local Self-Government "ndli state :-- I l (a) whether it is a fact that th Punjab shows t9e hi hest
of mortality among the rovinees of India ;j (b) whether Government will onsider the advis~~ili y of
the causes of such high ort~lity in the Itrqvi ee? he Honourable Malik Firoz Khan,. Noon: (fro ·t of 1915- to 1926 the Punjab had t e highest provinciil )rt 1915, 1928, 1924, 1925 and 1921. I !
1
b) The cause of this high mortal ty is1 known : it was d c e to · .en e f epidemics, or which plague aw malaria were the bost imp
- '
Di.spensary.
!
i I
e Honourabl~ Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: i(a) dur, Ferozepore, Amritsar, G aspur, Gujranwala; S
alpindi, Attock, Lyallpur and M ltan, ; i (b) the remaining districts excep Simla; (~ '
COUNCIL.
REVOLVE!l,S;
"'312. Khan Mohammad Abudullah Khan : (a} 1s it a fact that ":.ihe Bub-Inspectors of Police in the Punjab are provided with Government .' .,f~volvers for use in case their life is in danger on duty?.
.. . (b) Is it aJact, that the Sub-Inspectors of Excise also have toperform -~ery 'risky- duties while raiding different localities to check.illicit distillation ,and their life is exposed to danger ? .
If so, will· the .Honourable Minister ior Agrieulture be pleased to state - ~PY _the Police and· Excise Sub-Inspectors are npt treated alike iri: the inattel' "t)f providing them with Government revolvers, and whether Gover:rinrei1t.iB .~i~pared to consider this question now ? . . : ss: .
• Th~-Honourable Sar.dar jogendra Singh: (a) Yes. ·· · ····-~' ··· (b)Yes.. Government .doss not consider. t•hat Excise -Stib-Insp'ectors
·~ at~ not trained to the u~e. ~f-fi1:e-11!I11S fo~ are Police SJ!b-II'i.s..p~t.Qrs) ~111iouJd be allowed 'to carry-.rev.oln:•rs ..
RETENTION BY THE TEACHING STAFF OF THEIR FAMILY ME,'1'!{13ERS IN GOVERNMENT QUARTERS.
. "'311. Khan Muhammad Abdullah Khan: (a) Will the_ij:on,q.yi:11l;>;le -~ni11ter for Education kindly state if thei;:e are any rules or orders issnei_by ·jn~ Ed~cation Department, Punjab, to the effect that the members of ~cpi,1:1g -~ta.ff of the schools are not permitted to keep their family members with them ~iji the· Government quarters o~cupied by them and for which they})~Y: a ,rent?
(b) If so,.wiH the Honourable Minister for Education please lay .on the :table such .rules or orders ?
··•· ' (e) ·If·the answer be in the negative, will the Honourable Minfat~t fur "' \ Ed ueasion kindly enquire as to whether there are any members of thirt'e-ac-hlflg ·
011taff in the Punjab schools who are prohibited from keeping their family »members in the Government quarters for which they i:;ay a rent to Govern ;;,ment, and lay on the table the result ofhis enquiry ? -' JJ ·': . . . ~. . . . ' . ..
The. Ho1Jouiable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) No. (b) and (<;} do not arise.
GOVERNMENT S<'.lHOLABSHWS.
: , *310. Rai SahiJ; Chaudhri Chhohi Rani :: . Will the Honourable :Minister for Agriculture.kindly state:- .
(a) the number of Government scholarships awarded in the Lyallpur . Agricultural . College ; . ' · · · ·
• (b-) the number of scholarships held by statutory agriculturists ; . (c) whether. tinder the existing rules prefe:re~e ought to be given- to
· agriculturists ; · (d) whether this preference is actually given?
. The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: lregret that the answer i;tothii, question is not yetready . .Jt will be communicated to the honourable
,, .member when ready.
- , .. 7,4:5 STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWEltS,
.1 Ville footnote on page 723 ante-.
I
PUNJ~ LEGlS.I,,ATIYE. CO:m:\'CIL. I
L !STH JUL 192 •. I !
FARE ov B.UL OCK CART. i ,! "' 1 . Cbaudhri Afzal Haq : (a) Will the HonourJbie he
em er be pleased to state- . . I I , ' I :
• i} th~ rate offare of bullock ca t per·" parao " ot<lin rily tahsildars .and other office:r .of tihe district A:1nrit ar;
( i) . the rate of fare of bullock c rt per " parao "! cha ged y t · contractors of Public Works Department in Ai;nrlts r.di t iet
( ) Will he be pleased to state the easons for the differ nee n t rates ? · . I • 11 1.·
- ! I , . C. A. H. Townsend : A ref ere ce bas been made to ocal ffice · o eeeipt 0£ their report the ans er· ~·ill be communic ted t t. '"
a le member. 11 \
i ' UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AN}) ANSWERS. i
' . I : --- i 1i
· EOLARATION 01f BRAHMANS AS AG~IC'cJLTURAL f~IB ,S.
Diwan Bahadur Raja Naren a Nath : Will th¢ Elo, our ev n Member be pleased to lay on th tabl~ of the House the corr pon
·;·e ee h took place between me and Go ernment on the quest on of s mans in all districts of the Punj b as agrioultural t:rites of G · get er with extracts from the tablf X~ I of' the Census table. of
· t e · · a. b containing statistics relating to tbe occupatiof1 i of Br d_s e _s? , , T i • ! i
"· c:l. i C. A. H. Townsend : I wo d lllfite the honourab e m q; tenf o to the fact that the corresponds ce wpioh took place '.w s of
ature and, as he is no doubt awa o, itis contrary to th pra ent to lay correspondence 0£ thi nature on the tapltt.
AGRICULTURAL IN EBT4DNESS. . I : Diwan Bahadur Raja Nar ndr! Nath : WU! It e l!,i ncia ?
C,pmn:ue' 1$· oner be pleased to state- I i i . ( ) whether the answer given by m to question No. 9 oft e Q e tio
naire issued by the Royal Agricultural com;miss on epro duced below for facility of eferenee) has been bro ght to th notice of Government ;
whether Government propose t take any action pn: t e lin gested by me therein; ! i !
the reasons for refusal or hesita cy t'() take action in ba e no is contemplated? i i ,
I ' ' --- , I,
AGRICULTURAL I DE~TEDNESS. I !
tion 6 (e), In the Punjab the ri ht o~ mortgage a~d s e is by the Land Alienation Act; . The right shou di res The Act operates in two ways It! restricts the , righ of
it gives a preferential right for e acquisition of l~nd y p age to wealthier individuals in th same class. It ifl tim tha etive aspect may be maintained · respect of the poorer r th
•
SUPPL y OF COPIES OF runicrar, RJiJCORi>S ' l!'OR PRIVA'rE USE~
225. Rai - Babadur Pandit Daulat Ram, Kalla : Will the· Honourable Finance Member be pleased to say- ·
(a) whether he is aware that copies of judicial records are- supplied, by the High Court for '' private use " on a reduced fee ; · .\.
(b) whether it is a fact that the above practice does not exist in the· courts subordinate to the High Court ;
(c) whether he is aware that there is a great demap.q by the Punjab. Bar for copies of judicial records for " private use " on th,, rates of fees current in the High Court;
FEMALE EDUCATION IN l\lA.ILBI T.AHSIL.
224. Lala Bodh Raj : .Will the Honourable Ministei: for Education, please atate if it· is a fact that in Mailsi Tabsil of the Multan district only Rs. 51 a month are spent on female education as imparted in both the Hindu and the Mub3:mmadan girl schools ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : This matter is the concern of· 'the local authority. There is a Gurmukhi and an Urdu schoolfor girls, the· monthly expenditure on which approximates to Rs. 52.
ignorant classes the richer and the better-educated classes who do notneed, . restriction "but who benefit by the privilege which 'the .Act confers should be ~ exempted from the operation of the Act under section 24, for instance I <wow(\ exempt the-following classes - from the operation of tµe Act :-
- (1)- Men who have taken to .Government .serviee or to profes.-. - sions such as the law or medicine _or teaching. --
(2) Goveri;J.m.ent pensioners drawing a, pension of more than Rs. 100 · per month. -
(8) Jagirdars in receipt of jagirs of more than Rs. 1,000 a year. (4) Persons who pay more income-tax, than land revenue. ---- (5). All ex-members of a provincial or imperial cabinets. - <:
Some agricultural classes have taken to 'money lending and yet they enjoy the privilege of a preferential acquisition of land. The whole subject. needs a thorough enquiry, with a view to carry the principles of the Act to its -logioal and legitimate conclusions and to prevent the expropriation, ~f' poorer and more ignorant owners by the richer and better educated rural .
. 'middle class which bas come into existence within-the last 25 years. Mr. c, A. H. Townsend : (a) Yes. (b) No. (c) Government is not aware that of the classes whose rights of aliena
tion have been restricted some desire to have the restriction removed, and. others to have it made more stringent: No representation on the subjeofi. from them has reached Government. Whether the scope of the possible-
· alienees be further reduced, is a matter on which there are not sufficient d~t~ available to enable Government to hold that the suggested amendment' is. necessary in furtherance of the object of the enactment.
' I I t
··. ·--i 'i\.;- i(~-
' t;ti.J~-. UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
j
1 I l
192 •
-_ .... _
I i Hrsnus IN THE PoLI DEP.ARTMEN~. I i
.. . Rai ~aliadur Pan flit Daul t Ra~, Kalia: f i~ t a~ce Memher be pleased to say 1 ' \ i
( ) whethef th~-n~i;nber of Hind s in ~b~ Police D~piµ.'t e!,lt ted ranks, subordinate ser ee and constabul~ry) s ve as compared with the pro ortion · of their pJptlla ion ;
I ' ) whether it is the intention of he Government to giv the
of the province their shar in ~his importa~t ! d part Government service ?. · : I i
·· Ho~ourab~e S.ir Geoffrey ~ o~~orency: II Jr. this question 18 not yet read It; will be commum
b1e member in due course. : ! :
I I . LOCALS OF THE LYALLP J])IBTRICT. I I
· · • I I . . Rai Shahadat" Khan : Will the }l-Icimourable f e~enne
to state- 1 • I i ( ) whether he is aware. of the fac tha~ a small nuJb~r -· f th oeal
of_ the Lyallpur Jistric_t th _identical rig!t~ af: co ·pan with other locals are still I t without any gr~~ f Ian~ ;
· .(. ) if the ans_wer fo part (a) is in t e ~~mative, ~h1tq:er; he . vem c ment mten:ds to start an e uiq as to their rel~t1 e n ts '}
. C. A.H. Townsend: (a) Y s, · I !
I ! . ; l ! MMUNICATION. BETWEEN SYE AL4" · ;AND_ SHEI~
. Rai Shuadat Khan: (i Will the Honour~b~e gric I . _ ~ be pleased to state whether h , is aware of the ~ac~s
f ) that the part of the Sheikhup a .'pistriot ernbraein the station o! 'Syedwala is far a ay from the headqua ters Sheikhupura District and closely situated to i t o L District ; • · I
. . .. --·-····-- .--4-- ..... ' ----....--+--++- 1 Viile :ootnote c,n-piige 723 -uue.
I
I I
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. L 18TH Jut . . I I I
Daulaf ·Ram, _ Kalia. J J · I ! _tl) whether ho is aware that the ale. 6f copies of tne ju ·c~a,l
, · for " private use only "will b~ ii,l a good de~l of _ one · -__ aove~ent at a sman. c st · and will __ help : the. I ~El
_ _ • the Punjab Bar as well m _ e p·: reparation of the cas e) whether the 'Government inte ds to introduce ~.h~ s ste ..
: of copies of judicial: reeor s tdr , .• private us~" only High Court rates of fee in he Subordinate c4!>utts ?
. . i ' I I
e· Honourable Sir Geoffrey del'4ontmorency :i referred to the Honourable Jud of th(;) High Court fo
e er will be fu~hed on receipt _of t eir feply. I ! I I I ' I
•
(a) whether it is a faict tbl\t Fer.ooopore city isp junction station with a. largo traffic in goods and tlmt up and down trains pass through this station during tho hours of night ; a.11d.
(b) whether the Government .intenda to re-open the police post at thtJ city railway station which used to be there sometime · igo? · . . .
. ... . The Honourable Sir Geoffrey c:leMonbilorency : I regret that the -,mswer to this question is not yet ready. It will be eommnnteated to the 'iionoumble member in. due course.
POLICE POST AT FERO~PORJlJ CITY BAILWAY STATION.
230. ~ai Bahadur Pan~it ·Daulat Ram, Kalia = · Will tl:e Honour :e.ble Picanee Mombor bo ploasod to state-
229. 'Rai Bahadur Pandit Daulat Ram, Kalla : Will the Honour- -able Finance Member be pleased to sta~ · . _
(a) the number of villages situated within tho jurisdiction of police station, MoJa, in tho Ferozepore District; ·
\b) whether ho if! aware of the fa.ct that Moga, once r. small village has; now developed into a second class municipality with six
.high schools, one intermediate college, a big hospital and a flourishing market ; and
· (c) whether the Government intends to opon a separate police station for the town of Moga ?
· The HonouraJ;,le. Sir Geoffrey deM.>ntµiorency :· I regret thr,t, t-lie 0'ans,e;r to this question is not yefrea.dy. It will be communicated _ta 'ttt.e . honourable member· in due , course.
Poraos .STATION FOR Moo.A.
(b) that them are no Bc9yrc.rs 9f.-c:0D1JD.unication between Syedwala . and eheikhupura and people are put to great inconvenience in going to Bheikhupura ? ·
, . (iii) U the, answer t<> parts {a) and (b) are. in tile affirmative; will the · .1I<in~able Finanee Merubet \cinclly .s,tat~ wl:tat action the Government .;c,o~teII:\plates to relieve the trouble of the people 2 · · : - . Th~ Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh s (i) (a) Yes.
, ', {bl There are unmetalled roads (1i) to the railways at Jaranwala and · {ii) to the Lahore-Lyallpur .Arterial Road at Bucheki, _ · (ii) Government has at present under. consideration proposals regarding "-tb,!:l alignment of certain arterial roads that may affect the Syedwala ilaqa • . 'W4en a, decision has heen reached, i.t will be f9r the district board of Shsikhu . pura to make arra.ngernents to link up with .t:lle arterial system, to which end. it should, if necessary, approach the Communications Board for
~eli.,.
747
'PATHANKOT MUNICIP.Ai.X~i:"'• f·~ . .. . . . •. . . . ' . . ', ' : ' ' J •234.. Chaudhri ~- Singh : ·· Will th~ .Honoursble the :Minister:s
: foi: Local ~elf-Govornme:Qt be. pleased to sta;te- · -. , , : . . ~. . (a) if it is 8. fa~i-that in the Pathan.kot Municipality a Parsi gentle- ~-
man has been nominated -to the seat rendered v:aoant by the' death ,ot Bardsr :Kahan Singh; .. ~ Cc .•
ci • (b) tho" riu:11be'r of, Pa.rsi voto'I'S iii the - Pitha~ko{ Mun.iciipalitj ; • . -- -- !"
• s. . (c) ;whothorthe_ sai<l fatsi gontlo:m;>l!l. _possessf3S ~ny Inp:r!.?V8J2l\l property '•, '. . ... wit!ri,n' thfr bou.ridaries ' of ,Pf t):u\ni{ot· Mpni~h)a!_: Committee;
,, ... _, -.~ ~ - . • . - . • '<
_(_ -,-
<d) whether it is a fact tha.t a muni~ipaF<iepu._t~tion waited on.the · Honourable Mini~ter for Agrjculture oti,his first. visit to Lyall.-
. pur o::i. 2nd February 1926, with the. siimg. object a.ndf0W&s ·• t·" , ••.• assured of sympathe~io action ; .
ie{:wheth(lr ft is ·a. f~'}t ,that & public ;dep-qtation again waited on;_' His Excellency on his visit' t<LLyallpur on 8th Ma.t(}h 1926.:,:: with the ~me objc:lct ,an<l ; was \~smred ' that .thoir :request would be "granted '; . · · · .. .. , · , ·_ ·. · .
(f) whether it is a fact tha.t although the old license was duly 1·e,10,ked in April 1926, the new one h!ls not yEt boon granted m spite. of the strong local opinion and support in :favour of the appJi,. cation;_
(' .. ' . ' . (g)' whether it is a. fact that. the hydro-electric department have .sat~··:
tied their terms with tho applicants and promised to .recom.;; mend the grant of the .lioense to them ; ·
(h) the reasons for not granting a new. license to the applicant~. in · :spite of the fact that they have settled their terms with the
hydro-oleoteio department and the old license has. been re· - ·voked? . · . . ' .. -
Mr, C~ A. H. Townsend : r.. @ 'Y"es. · . ._, t.'(b) Goyemment-has' no informatio~ :about ·any, such 1;oprosentation
~.supbiitted by the municipal committee· iil l925. . A memorial to this' effect "'W~ reoc,ived from th9 . inhabitants" '?f tyallpbf in, Januag 1926~
u(cY Yes, see @·aoo~e~ .. · . · , · . ·s ... / _ .(d).~¥es. L • •. . : •• •• -- • --, •• -~ ~·-'·· - • .·· ~:-c~)A :tepr,)$•};tat1',:o ,ioputation did wait on .. His.E-s:colbncy the Gov.:c.
. ernor in March 1926, and was informed that their request would receive.; due consideration. , 1 • • - •• • • • • • • • • •• • • -· .. .ff_~:_;.:: ~ _ .. ~-: .. : .. -:-- <-_:. : -· _· .. ·! _-.-, -_·--.' -- s..: . . - . --~- ·- . ' -_.,.. ~ ·,_·-.
(.f) It is correct that the origina.l-lieense in favour of the General Electric · Company (India), Limited; was revokorl in: c.A.pril 1926.. Since then nego-, · · ti~tions p.ave been wrQceeding regarding tb.e terms on ~hich a new Jicet1se ·Cllo?~)>e,~nted. ., . . . , ·-
~1: (g) and(h) Satisfactory terms have notyot been sottlod,; snd no tecom.- - me,ndati01;1 in favour of..the new Company has, been.reeeived.:
t" \ ~-, jili· v.
r
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e number of Superintondents c mmu.uity-wise in I tho offic s. • f the Deputy· Commissioners · the Punjab ; · '
· :ERINTENDl!lNTS 9F Dl!lPUTY Co auclhri Afzal Haq : · Will the
. . . is no Sikh member of the Pa hankot Municipal] Co mitt •
appointed was oonsidered th most suitable choice for e l : i I I I
I i j ·• - ••· . • . . : I • I •
udhri Afzal Haq: Will t e Honourable ~foµs er r· . I . ' pleased to state-« : i j
ether the zamindari acholarshi are aw.n·d,~J o:1ly ;toJ Hin or ~ikh Jat, and Rajput agricult ·sts and also to .4hir rgrio - turists of tho Gw·ga~.J and ~ h~ak' Districts r.* 't~ sa· · of AmbaJe. and Hoshiarpur Dis cts and to the j Gauf. B - mins in the Bohtak, Hissar. Ka al add Gurgaon Distri~ts; · ~
(b) f o, whether he intends t~ amend A~lcle 34 of sJ_ot~._·o F Chapter V of the Pun Jab Edu t10µ Code so a~ 'to a. Muslim agriculturists in tho s tion referred to abovr?
e o ourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Attention of the Mono .. em er is invited to .article 84, Chapt V !f the Punja! ~d cati
Victoria scholarships are provide for the benefit io~ u · · i ' : i I .
PUNJA& '=LEGISUTlVE CO OIL~ [ 18T~ Jury 1 ! 1 i
[. ha d m Singh] . , i I : (d) hether the said Parsi gentleman i a vsndor of liquo» )11 Pat
kot, and is also a rest-house ontraetor ; 1 !
(e) w ether there is any Sikh member tho Pathankot I\lunic,ipali lf.n t, · he be pleased to state why a P rsi bas beon given p:vefere
d ed in place of, a Sikh ? 1 i
· ourable Malik Firoz Khan N~n ·: J ·
I I
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P.UN!AB LEGISLATIVE OU~CIL. [ Hh I I !
- I I : .. .,_ -, - . · . RAWALPINDI MuNIC PAL ;COMMITrEE. J i
.. . Chaudhri Afzal Haq : (a Wil~ the Honou 1a*~ the
: or oc l Self-Govemment he pleased to tate:- 1 ! ' I '
. i) whether in the month of F rnary a deputation , f A juma Islamia, Rawalpindi, waite up6n the Honou~abl Min ter t' ·
. request for the introdueti D ofi separate r~Pii'es ntat :1 j ·• Rawalpindi Municipal Co mittpe ; J j · .
• ( i) whether it is a fact that the onourable Minist¢r fo Loe Self Government promised to P.J pathetically eonsid 'l~ t viir r . :103t
_ ( ) If so, mil he bo pleased .to sta e wiat tho Goveijn~e t ha sn fa· one · this respect? , i I
I : -Honourable Malik Firoz Kan,• Noon: (a)!(i) nd C Ye .. The D( puty Commissioner ha been asked to re~rirt whet
.w. aros can .. bti so revi~ecl as to se tre ~epi·esL,ntation,: o~ t e .' erer.. hrs more m proportion to the ean between the r f' o ulati n an . I .
strength. . ! .· 1
I : I I RAWALPINDI MuN1c1rA , Coi.1oi1TTEE, !
4 • Chaudhri Afzal Haq: (a), ill :, the Honourible the o al Self-Government he pleased to statP--- j i
i) ii it is a fact that on 18th Ma 192~, the Muhamtna.d n m commissioners of Rawalpi di invited the ~t,~e -ion Commii.sio_n(lr to tht- pnuci of IM)1slim mmtirl serv th(; committee: )_ - +
1 · • 1· - ·-
-{ 11,) if it is a fact that. the Muslim un{cipal commisbione s al attention of the' Com mi sioner to the fact! th t s · constitution of municipal c mmittee, Rawalpindi, no a - madan Health Officer-and ecre~ary have ever bee ap - inte and prayed for the appoint ont ~lf ~ Muslim $eere ar-y· nd Muslim Health Officer in.cs eanw vacancy shdulil ccur?
Honourable Malik Firoz an, T Noon : (a) td, I I
. . { ) On the 11th December 1926, t e M11slin~ membe s !of the awal. indi m ieipal committee sent a petitio to 1tho Deputy 0<>:ni, issi hieh heJl stated .that since . the crea#on of the i co_ _mit
·. had ever been appointed secreta -engineer ; no m1:Q~io wa h alth officer_. . ':rhe petition was f rwa~ded to the 1 om · ssio e uty Commissioner. · \ : I -
I : .! RAWALPINDI MUNICIP L CpMMITTEE. ' ;
2 Chaudhri Afzal Haqe (a) ill ~be Honourable he :i r. t c 1: Self-Government be pleased t stape- I j ·
: : (i) if it is a fact that Mubamma anR· !form the ma!rit of tion in Rawalpindi munici alitjr; . \
! 'i) if it is a fact that Muhamm dan~ pay m?_re 1
~ 'pal xes J ii) if it is a fact that since the constitution of the] unioi ality
. • -- - - . !?~a!;f?'b:p-~;~!~~:~! :~:~~~!t~~~it~;if !! ' t~!: - : i !
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,,, 244.; Satdar: Hira Singh : .wm the Chief ,Engineec .t~ '. ·gunjab Government be pleased to E!tate. iiit is a :faot.,,.... • . _ };:}, . ·. .
: (a.) t}vl.t:_th~ :following villages on RajbilJJa J{bol!ali .- U:pp~r Bari · · · Doab Canal'division, No; 2; have not received w.atex :since :the:,.
_ . ·;tijth. Augu&t: 1926, oie., Kohrian, Uhondi, Bahadlll'-Singh.-._;; .: wala, Pindi, Barki, Hassanabad, .Narainmalw'~la and;-Sangab
. . . ·I ,J,mra.?. _ _ , . .: . . .· '. . : _ -:.: ~ <:, _.,.: . •, :~{W·tha.t: o(loupier's: rate h~s be~n- imposed .upon.tl).ec ab·o.va~men.tioned:
. villages; . , / - · ..., · _, :-~ ,~- - · · ·. (c) if the answers fo (a).and (b) above ge in, the aflkrna:ti"~, will
he be please4 to,-~state what ·aotion; bapropos~ to take with a view to supply water to the t3.p~ye~inentioned: villag(:)s ? .
- -· ~ - .. • . - . • C)
Mr. J ... B..G~.:Smitha:.~·.The mform~t~;{is not. :available ,at. head- 1,arte~ an(ha~ 'iie~ssi~at~ ;·azj:quiiy , bwD.g° 'i#ade' ~~m-fo<i~I-6$.~e;ra and -
..... >,: the'resultis awaited;·· ·The .. information~ .:when rooeived,will_· be· oo_illµiuni~c )'. ; '.ca\ecf to =honourable member.: .. ·. . . . . . • ~.-\~ .- ·: _. - - - c • --
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. . ..", . . '. : LAHORE D1ii~m,0T ~()ARD,>< ... ,·. •, . : .- (\) ". . :·. --243.·····SarduHiraSingh: (a) Will the, E;oripu,ra,_btf,.:¥inis.~,f.ot0
~:. :'.)\Loqil Self:G-0veniment be· ple&s~d to. state if Govepmient)s awa.re <>f~~:r. ': · , <> ~~, , foot tliat'the .numhe» oi voters in · the Lahore \vard ·of.tlie · Labore .District -··
c··-: , /:1~oard is ohlyj9~ while th~)lUUJberof voters int~e AUprlr ward'.is l ,81 i t _ ._-.,, ' .. ::-. -· :: ->::_-:° _ - , (b)- n-·ii~, will he be plea~_etfto state }l~e re~on .for thi; g!'e!tt di)rerel!~=- ,,"·.:-,, · < ;:· l;>etwetin the.- number of voters in the· two wards.? .. ... - - · - - ·. ~f~\t{>-·: .·~·;,~:·:.· -- ... ; .. :. • . -. '···a,:C --::·>":." • :-,~: -. · ', .. ::.,;._.,_:<>···.·· .: : _'." -~7'::-.c_--_ . · ... · :· -.-> ·a. ;· . . .. ·· ... -C__ -
,..,,_,,.,_, __ C{{: ,_ . '(Ce)' Further, wi.11 p.eh_ JL>_~- pl!3~eDd _to ~l0;t~Bj{Gtva,mmlien..t propose to_.r.eoon·· _ . : s£it1:1te the ·wards of't e_> lahore 1stnct , olµ'.u :,.wit ,_ a view to give . due
representation to':eoonward ?' .: .• .; '. ····_ .... , •. ):2;:~f_--- -.'. ':'- - .. ·. ' The Honourable Mank Firoi Kh.an;)l~:n((a)'Y~s;- _ . :-·-:
; . (bf At the ~ime_'_wh_en the drcles'. were constituted tlle #ttci,ber of voters in the Lahore cii:ole·wa~ 205 and in the A).ipur circle 486. , Alipur being In a
.. colony area: tbi: holdings 'are larger ~n~ on we ~eq;t!J. 9tg.. ~ndowner his· ·_· .. suco~ssors. are all p;obably e~titl~d to the vote/~here_~ j.il~tlt(Laho:i:e. o~ole . c the holdings are sriia]1!1n~ t~:o _shares of suQ'CBaso~ifattt'df~rb;.Qt_h1rge ~nough
-t1> · entitl~ t~e~·to :_y_()te\::: : ··· .: :: -~:\,i;:);.s~_>"f~?,}?J~· · : 0>' ,(c) -~e ·rqat~er will ··~e oonsidered.: · , ,:, .; ,: -· .:s •.. - ·
.---\~:~£-F; . ..;.::· ... :r::) - ---· ·-.~.,..,.._ i·..:
'Wi~Jfu-~ti:i?~£~ fo. ~EB;iiN v~iu<iEs ON R~:sAii I{:a~m:t1. . . ·-,. '··· .... · ..
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(iv) if it is:~ fact that since 18~4 up tilllS!S})ufot:seven norninat . ed members one Mnhamm11dan: :lias .bee~-'nominated at. each · . term ? · · · ::;-. . .,,,,_. : ~·: .: .<·· . .': · ::: ·
..... ·· (b)Jf. so, whether the Government is consid~rfug t6 ·take. n~ess~:{ stepajo insU:t~' ad~uat<f representation, of: Mp.hammfLdans.: on Rawalpindi, murii,cipa~ committee ? . · _ · · ·
:ne Honour~hle Malik Firoz Khan, N~on : :\i;'he 'information asked 't''f<>r.from the local_ofl:ii,ers_lias not-been reeeiy~d.: ~nd thEirefo~ :the rE3ply to
tp.is. question, itjs regretted,.is not i::ea~y·~-" ·
·~ . .-·,,_;·":~-,: . ·;"<"'>": :-
7'.QS~: . ; UNSTARllED QUESTl:ONS .A.ND ANSWERS.
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PUNJ;\B LEGISLATIVE OUNbit. [ l~T~ - : ! '
-- - - KAsUR MumoIPAI. C MMI\l'TEE. _ j ; Sardar Hira Singh: (i) Will he Honourable _M\inist r fo
f·G v rnment be pleased to state if it is a fact - _ 1 1
- - - ~- that the IJ1a.j~i, portion of the ootr~i tax levied I by he Kasur municipal committee is pai by $ikhs, who inhabi • the eigh bouring villages ; : I i
that ther~ is a-sufficiently larg auinber of Sikh)v~te in municipality ? If so, - is it lso ! a fact that i:io lse t ha reserved in the Kasnr munic pal eommittee forj the ikh
ill the Honourable Minister for i Local Seli-Gdve .nme - -- - - - - - 1 . · I !
o consider the desirability of r serving one seat Jot t e S · s municipality ? - ! i i' _;
- H•~urabl~ Malik . Firoz Kh , N~o.- : The ~fo~m stion thelooal officers has not been eceitetl and therefote he r
_ tion, it is regr~ttEld, is not read - I · 1- I
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__ _ F AZI~kA GovERNMENT Hio~ Soaoot, j I Pir Akbar Ali : Will the nou'.rable MinistJr :ro Ed atio
s te whether it is a fact- ' ! ! - - - . • I I
( )that from .the Fazilk~ Gov~r en~ ~g~ Schoo~ 5F · J"leai"ed in the Matriculation xamination and out fthe
-12 got through the exami atio-i;l ?. If the Jdw r be affirmative, willthe Honour ble Minister please eta e th
_ - io account for such a bad esult ; ! 1
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- ( ) _that the results of the Gover ent High Bchools a: e g _ bad as compared with non- overnment High ~ch;o-dls ; ( ) that ~he Gover~~nt High-Sch_ ols ~re: be~~e~ sta e~ d p
with fine buildings and hav more facilities t an t e n - ernment High Schools ; · ! 1 I I
- - If the answer to the above be in he a;ffinnative, w4I ~he Hon abl Minister please- state the re sons' for (b) ? l !
Honourable~Mr. Manohar L : (ii) Yes, the reaiso;n f rth of the olilldida.tes is- stated to hav~ been the preyale ee of
(l io ess about the time. :of the e amination. Certaid c ange if a: e- recently been made: i, \ \
_ ( ) Inpast years this has not been be lease. In reg~r~ o th atri u ation Examination the detailed sult~ of each school
een r eeived. 1 ' i j -_.__, ()'In many oases. this is so. -- - · ! --1
~ ( : Does not arise. j I • _ _ 1 I
_ AGRICULTURlSTj! AND THE E UOAtION DEPARTME
,-.-: 4 .. Pir Akl>ar Alf: Will the onourable Minis~er1 f r E. _ ca.tr e-pl i ed to stale.with reference to Ai: iele 1115, Chapter 1V' o the unj - · due t"on Code, II Edition- 1
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( ) the meaning of agriculturist ;
D2
UNIFORMS ro P<>L:i(lE IN'sPEOTORS AND Su:e-INSPECT<>RS. 249 •. - Pir . Akbar Ali i Will the Honourable l\fo~ber for Finance,
be pleased to ~tll.~E_3_ifi!_~a fact ~h~t "al!J)_Q}i~f;)Ille'.Q._jp...Ql!!.din__g__t_h$=J_gaze.tt.ed . ollicers of alf ranks are given. uniforms excepting the Inspectors and Sub-- Inspectors who have to provide uniforms at their own costs ?" ·
l:IoRSE ALLOWANCE<To PoLIOE lNsi>ECToRs.
248. • Pir Akbar Ali : Will th-e Honourable Member for Finance- - please state, 1£ it is a fl),ct~
(a) that Police Inspectors posted in: cities, cantonments and Jine~· get in addition to their pay Rs: 40 per mensem by way of horses allowance;
(b) that the District Police Inspectors do .not get such allowance· . though they also are required to keep horses ;
(c) if the answers to (a) and (b) be in the affirmative, will the Govern ment kindly consider the advisability of removing the distinc tion?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency; (a) Yes. (b) Yes. , (c) District Inspectors are entitled to draw mileage and daily allowances
at the rates admissible under the Travelling. Allowances Rules. These are '_ intended to cover expenses on tour including the cost of upkeep of a horse;
_ and are adequate for the purpose. _ The distinction between the - allowances drawn by District Police Inspectors and Police Inspectors posted to certain eitie& and cantonments is based on the fact that the duties of the latter are-
- almost entirely. confined within a radius of five miles . from 'their head quarters and they are not therefore entitled to draw ordinary travelling allow» - anee. It is for this reason necessary to give them an allowance forthe upkeep of_ a- horse or other conveyance. Since District Inspectors of Police are· touring officers and are .entitled to draw travelling allowance, Government
. sees no -reason for removing the distinction. - -
{b) whether this definition is i~ aceordance with.that given in th; - "Alitination of Land Act or with the popular interpretation of
the·terin; (o) whether it is not a fact that according to. the definition given in.
· the Punjab Education. Code, the majority of the bo}14 fide agriculturist students fail to get themselves entered as agrieul- turists in the school registers ; ·
(d) if the answer to (c) be in theaffirmative ::will the Honourable .Minister for Education take steps to get the definition __ so:
- - amended as to make it conform with the one given in the Alien ation of Land Act or with the popular interpretation of the- term?- .
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: .Information is being collected and will be supplied to the honourable memberwhen ready . •
755, · UN.STA.Rl\Ell QUEST1t:rnS .AND ANSWERS.
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. J I 16; b rAJi} PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE utr: . [] r1 ULY 927.
If h answer to the above be in "the affirmative, will ~h~ ki dly x end the same concession in them tte~ of uniforms t1o ~h an Su - nspectors ? !
1
e Honourable Sir Geoffrey del\,:ontmorenc~ ~ ons' H ad o tables and Sergeants of Polic are Jgiven free u:bifor .
als ade for the purchase of unifor to Police Officers: of t e I Pr ncial Services, on appointment i the case of direqt ~ptoint
ation in the case of promot d officers. 'I he ~t1e~ti n of . orm to Inspectors and Sub- sperors of Police 1is und con-
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PoLIOE INsPE oRsi. ! 1
Pir Akbar Ali : Will the nourable Membe1 fbr Fina e be t state if it is a fa.ct ; i I a that the Police Inspectors were onsidered to be f th sam rank
as the Tahsildars ; t 1
b) that the Tahsildars have no bee me gazette dffi ers ; f so, · will the Government consid r th advisabilit <).f aki : th
Police Inspectors also gazett d oiicers ? I e, Jlonourable Sir Geoffrey de ontm:orency : i It is re ette e eply to this question is not yet eadJ ; it will b~ do mu · ated
w en r a y, . __ 1
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. .• MALL ToWN COMMITTEE DAS HA I AfD OcTRor ,T x. 25 • Chaudhri Afaal Haq : With refe~ence to my au~st on
( n~ta d) put on 28th February 1927, m t~ei Honoura11~ Minis L cal • el -Government be pleased to stat :- i • I
a whether the proposal has been submitted to the IGpv rum (b if so, what action.the ?overnm nt tbof o~ it? I ! _ --
T e Honourable<PJ.Ialik F1roz Kb , No~ .. n: (a) NI oJ - b) Does not anse, I ; i
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BAR ROOM IN GARHS ANH!ER. I i .. 2. Cbaudhri Afzal Haq : Wit refJrence to my ~urst "on _ T '. 2_5
<c n$t rr d) put on 28th February 1927, w thfS:onourable IF~ra ce mbe Jj p.le. s ~ to state w. heth .. er the Hono~a. le .J~clg.· es of the ·t1gh Cot t ha.v n w s n ioned the proposal for the buildi g of a bar room I· I G rbs nkar D tri t 9shiarpur ? I i ! .
e Honourable Sir Geoffrey d Mo.!.tmorency : 1
l A fair pla a d es i ate for the proposed bar room h ve lieen called fo11 f:tfo the ubli
orks epertment by the Honourable udgts.: i . . MOTION FOR AD OURNMENT. I
.. . Maqbool ~mood_ r Amrits r (iu¥ammadant), :R al] Sir, b t a k for leave to make a motion f r ;djohrnment ot ~he busi t e Co n iHor the purpose qfdiscussing he following d.e nj.te . ma er
urgent public importance, 11iz., the recent communal riots ·a£ Multan and to check the recurrence of such.riots.
;,-; :· Mr.- President : The m~tion as stated inthe introductory notice tlllls · ':&;ijfollows :- - · ·
''Tbegto give notice for.leave to make a. motion for adjournment of the bnsinessoI .. - the Councilforthe.purpose of discussingthefollowing definite matter of urgent
public importance, piz., the recent communal riots at Multan and to check the recurrence_ of such riots." - ·
· Does anybody object to leave being granted? -. The Honourable Sill' Geoffrey deMontmorency- -{Finance Member) :
I should like to object for sevesal reasons. Fpreaume t·hat the object of the honourable member is, first of all, to obtain information. ·
'' _ -- __ ·_-. CJ;taudhri Afzal Haq : . -On a· · point of - order, Sir/ - Can the Honour· · able Member give reasons Ior'the objection ? · -
. Mr. President : I should think to has the right to do so. A mere statement that ho objects will be meaningless. · ·
· - Mir Maqbool Mahmood: Sir, is the Honourable Member in order. in _ quoting private talk which took place outside the Council Chamber ? '
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : I am not quoting a.ny private talk. -.:_, ·
- Mr. President : 'I'here is no reference to a private · talk. _Mir Maqbool Mahmood: How does ke anticipate the motive that
prompted me to bring forward this motion. - · Mr/President :,._No such questions cru/be put to the chair. The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: . Sir, I said that
the, probable motive .:of the. honourable member in asking for ~djournment was, first of a.11, to 'i;eok ir)forma.tion regarding the riots- in - Multan, a.rid secondly, as he has made clear m the second part -of his motion, to discuss measures for tho prevention of. the recurrence of such riots. As regards the
-- .first point, I should like to say that the information which is available is at _ the moment facomploto. _ Government-is tryini(its bast to get the fuilest information on how the riots actually started~-' As' regards their progress of the situation since the riots started they .are in ·.possession of some in formation, hut as yet enquiries have not yiB'lded any really substantial information· a.s- regards the initial events froin which .. the .riots had their origin. _ · It would not be possible; if a discussion began, to give any very ao_curate information on this extremely. important detail.: Another matter
- 'is, Sir,;that it seems to me that a resolution of this kind · could be much .. l>etter discussed on a regular· resolution when Uje atmosphere. was calmer;
- Tliere would - then be less mutual recriminations, there - would be more: opportunity for persons to propound remedies and to arrive at sober and sound conclusions. Certainly, Sir, I do not deny that the matter is of - public importance, but on; the point of urgency I should like- to say that.'. the situation at Multan is now, well in hand~_ For three days there have been no ineidents whatever, ·There are large forces - of police, military and additional magistrates posted at Multam · who are thoroughly oopabla ·of preserving law, and order. - Special precautio~ __ have .been taken regarding the investigation _and trials of any cases, th~f µ:i:ay emerge from the riots,-_
•. 'g.nd :tli9re is rio apprehension whatever that the fulles~ infonn~tion, regarding:
t I
757 MOTION . :b'OR ADJOURNMENT~
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[~S~a JUL i ' l l
! PUN~~ ,:,BG!_S!".,ATJ~ couroIL. i
,GOVERNMENT'S .DEMANDS FOllSUPPLEMENTARY AND :KDDI- . . .. . . TIQNAL GRANTS, l~2t28, _ . - . - ~ ..
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency (Finance Member}_: , n A n · - Sir, His Excellency tho Governor has rocommeii,ded
. ·- . . - . tho adoption of the supplementary demands" wliioli)l1'6 :laid bofor.o·tho Legislative Council to-day..' . . - ;_ .. · . - ~
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._ __ Befor-0 Honourable Members end Ministers. move the . supplem~n~..Y -. :dema.:nds, I. should like your peenission; Sir, to make g, v;ery. brief•. staten,.~f,lt
· .ai; rogards ·tho class of supplementary demands, a';d as rega.:rds the.fina.:n<cii~l positdon at tho moment 'which affocta tho considoration •of those demllin(is. Whon the general do bate on tho budget came to a close fast March hotieq-:i;al)le .members will remember that the question of tho remission ol promci.a.l contributions still hung in the balanco. We could not at that: time: -de- ~ ·. finitely. say whother we - would receive. the remissions we ho peel for from. :the Government of India or not. Nevertheless during tho course of that debate horlou.ra.bre membors made a large number of- suggestions both ~s regards
,~'.objects.on.which liloney should be spent.if received ap;d es regards .the -various items of taxation which they considered - the improved .· fi:nane~l
· .conditions might make it possible to reduce or remit, I pointed _-ouk to :honourable members at thl\t time that if the remission did- materialise we ,lilioultlh~ve to take the frillest:cognisance :of the fact .. that tb:i1nvoul-d. ~_filie Jast large. ~dfall. of _ a recur.ring n~ture which ~we CQuld expect to - ob~ <from . the _ Gov~m:mont of India·,> It would therefore behove us ~ to nae· the
:WOO test f diesight, pruden.CKand care in thi study of the Iqmulel ,irl'. wbfoh we decided to n!llploy this re~g- remission if we receivecLit; '.For;dLwe .made a mj~ta-kc in its. aJlcicati-On that mistake- would aft'eet :n;ot only the mid~ ,ge_t 'of this_yeat hl1t:would _atf{Jot,.our fu'.rancml position_ ur fr$lle·yearstUld ·rwi
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'' That.leave be granted to amend the $ta,nding Orders 8$·follom. :.:...:.. . _ .. · ·: (i) S, o; .t-A be omitted. . . . . e . :
'. '(iijin S. 0. 74-D .• the words 'and of the· Committee Oil Publfo--A:oooun~, be omitted." - · . . . . · _ ..
. ·wm·thos0 ;ho· are in favour of the leave· being .gra"n.~~.pleasestan_<l_.jn · -their places !' -
- (More t~an ~enty members stood up.) . r
r .. Mr. Ptendent. : :A:s mote·_ than twenty members lm ve risen - irr support --0f the leave being granted, the honourable mem,bor"will rro·w·.please':Qlttv(f:the ooxt mo-ii~n on the sgend», • . . ;-' .,- - '; ;.,_.,
. Pandit · Daulat Rani, Kalla : Sir, 1 big to. move , .: -. " That the draft amendments • be referred to a 'Selected- Comrittee.."- .:
• · Mr~ President : Under Standin g Order 57 thu-Select Com:m.tttoo if to -eonsist of the Prosiden t, who" shall lxdhe CMirman; the -Deputy Presi<ie:ritJ - .and sevoP. other members of the Council to bo elected by PlffP,US of-the ~ingle
_ · transfert).blff · vote. Nomitiations of candidates for election· t& the~ Sele.'ct _ .. , Committee should be . sent in to the Secretary before :2 P. M. t'O-:mori:ow, arid -
, ( - - ~ =the election will tako place on the 21st, providad.fh« motion is ca.rried-.,'1-1:he . question is that the draft amendment be reforrod to·a So-loct Committee'; " -
Tho motion was carried. .-.-.
·Mr. President : The question is--=:-,
AMENPMENT OF 13TA.NDING ORDE'RS.
• · Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency. J . PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OO$dIL.
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. :aoVEitNMENT'S: DEMANDS.FOlt SUPPLEMENTARY AND AUDITIO~.u.- 76t: • GRANTS 1927·28.
public works, communications and other useful activities. For the district boards, more rapid expansion in education, unless an alteration in system ts· evolved, in: effect means 'either contraction of other useful activities 9:r bankruptcy, For_ this reason we are forced if we want Io speed up the· rate _of expansion; not only to consider our own financial position but also
, that of the local bodies. It is not as might.at. first sight appear merely a questjon of the degree of aasistaneewhiehit is practicable for Government t;o • give. It might be found on examination to he a question of a radieal, change of method. -
. . I do -not wish to- qccupy time by dwelling on other administrative problems which the departments navii ·to take into consideration in framing programmes. Among questions · of first class importance. i might mention
- ihat_ the scales of pay for provincial services in the transferred departments · · have not been finally fixed.. This is · a - matter of some difficulty · which in
volves also some correlation of what is being done in the neighbouring pro·' -v-inces. T may also refer to the proposal for' police re-organisation which is now ripe for discussion., Our position is that various highly coloured and attractive 'items have to be selected. They have to be given a proper place and pieced together into. a complete and well-conceived picture for presen tat.ion to the Council. His a task of no small difficulty, and if unduly hurried it can only result in what Government and this House must surely deprecate, namely, an imperfectand unsatisfactory scheme.
Much the same difficulties occur as regards remission of taxation. A.Her the ,last session we immediately set to workfo scrutinise what additional taxes have been imposed since the reforms, what thoy were estimated to bring in and what they had actually brought in and the cirQ)l.lllStances, in which and purposes for whichthey were imposed; The conditions and ~easures adopted as • regards similar taxation · in : neighbouring . provinces are also being examined, Certain far-reaching suggestions made in this House regarding: some taxation, which was in force before ths beginning of the reforms, are also engaging the attention both in the. Adn:rinis~rative departments concerned and in the- Finance · Department. The · future expectation regarding the increase in - expenditure . and the expansion of. 'ordinary revenue have also to be scrutinised very carefully in 'this connection ;.: and itis obvious that no conclusion. regarding the use of the remission of
.· <i£5ntributions particularly· the - recurring remission or the remission of taxa-' ', tfon' can.·~ arrived at 'without simultaneous conclusion regarding the· cost'
ofexpansio!I. and programmes of expenditure on development and· prospoots- of.-the· growth .. o~ ordinary revenue. Government · -hopes to reach conohi sioiis .on these questions before- the beginning oLthe next session of the Couricil anci''.to lay as complete .proposals as possible before this House .irr Lahore in October. · ·
¥eanwbile, in' 'placing the, present demands, for supplementary gl!&ilts before the .· Council in this session Government has . been· careful to confine- - the - defuat;tds to - really urgent -it'ems of iraj>ortanc~ - almost entirely' of_ -a. non-recurring nature, and , to avoid asking : the Council to comm.it itself to· any large. schemes inv.olving considerable recurring expenditure which:
-.would· constitute a permanent feature of· the commitments in regard to the " uie, pf the large rec~ remission given by the Government bf India. before the. O<nmcil has had fnll Jb:mnoi~ proposals .for their utilization: before Jt-
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Honourable Sir Geoffrey d Montmorency = ()?' ane em ,b r) : S r, I beg to move :- i • j · r · . " bat a supplementary sum not exceedi g R~.! 22,586 be granted t the vern
in Council to defray the charges t t will come in courstj ~ ymen for th year ending the 31st of March 192 in respect of Land Reven' ."
I I I 'l; e motion was carried. . j I
btRIGATION :rRA~T. I i e Honourable Sir Geoffrey d MoJtmorency I (11
·P r}: Si i· I beg to move : _ ! , I i _ t 11. supplementary sum not· exceeding s. 6,~5,325 be grantdd to t e Go ;nor i -
Council to defray the charges that · l come in course of paym1t for t e yea. ending the-31st of March 1928 in re t Qf Irrigation." !
President : The question is - • j ·. ' ·
,it a supplemn~ary sum n>;>t exceeding ,. 5,~5,325 be granted t~ t e Go rnor i Council to.defra. _Y the cha-rges that ill come i·.·n course. of iaypi. e!t for e yea ending the 31st of March 1928, in res of Irrigation." ! . .
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· S y d Muhammad Husain [ ontgomery, Muhf\,~m dan, ural
.,( rd. u_ ) : __ ir, I do not .p· _r_o_ pose to o.ppose he d. em•. a.nd unde1_i'_ ci- n_· si.d ra_ti __ ·o. l simp y wish to ask the Government w at policy they are ad ptin wit .re rd t the question of abiana. Sir, it would n.ot be out i ot pace sub
· _ t th t tlle welfare of }he province m nly ,depends on th l evel men -of the · n u~try of agriculture. _ ! _ • I !
.. . . President : The honourable m mber bas intro~uqad dis -o the g neral question of abiana which, no 4oubt, would i hav bee a pro ri tely discussed at the general bu get discussion but no wh pl me t y grants are before the Coun il, ! · i i
S y d Muhammad Husain : I a discussing abia1~a h n t at I want to throw off the wh e it~m because tpei
a.r n-0 nti~led to ask any l!IOre sum. They have not ta¥e int -si el,'at o _ the question of reducing the bianti. For that j tea on I -0 po · g the whole graat,
• President.: .· !fhe Honourable Member will be quit . · ts · he discusses any policy or p · oiple affecting the de
. ·. s be n moved : he sbQuld not wa!lder beyobd: that. ' i
' 1 : G:aANT. LAND REVEN
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OU~OIL. [ l8'rH JUL I ! • •
( on. :S r Geoffrey deMontmorency]. 1
.. hich a e now under preparation and to be discussed in thei n xt. . " ~c.il e d ands for supplementary grants to al Rs; 20,67,291, ~ndt e(o
e th etails :-Non-recurring: capital R . 2,2';1:,500; revenue, Rs 16,5. Rs. 1,81,449. As explained in he memorandum prep red
$E1Cretary, the acceptance of th supplementary ~ema ds _· leave a; bala,nce at the end f theyear in all] ace unts
. icpenditure on ·ordinary revenue eeount inclusive ~f th se de · Iakhs !ess tha.n the estimated rece~pts and the j cfos' g
. , ount will be 94 1akhs. - r I i -
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'' That an ~dditional sum not exceeding. Rs. l,l~,691 __ :00· granted to the Govemodn , Council to defray the charges that will come in course of payment for the year ending the 3ist of March 1928 in respect of Police." - ·
Mr. President : The, question ia : '' That an adclitional·sum not exceeding Rs. 1,18,691 be granted to the Governor i~
0o¥cil' to defray. the charges' fhat will comej~ course of payment for. the year ending the Sllit of M.aroh l928 m respect of Police."
(Fin~nce Mem·
..-· -- ·.··' Potaoa GRANT.
I The Hon~ahle Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency be_ r) : Sir, I beg to move:.- · . . _ . .. . .. - . -
ADMINISTRATION OF JusTIOE GRANT •
. The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency {Finance Member) -: . 1 Sir, I beg to move :- · ·
" That an additional sum not exceeding Rs. 2, 772 be granted to the Gove~or in C~iuroil · to de,fr1ty tho· _nharg:i, th<tt will come in eonrse of pi.yment for the year ending the 31st of March 1928 in respect of Administration of Justice."
· The m;tion ~as carried.
G:mN.ERAt.ADMINISTRATION. (TRANSFERRED} GRANT.
· The . Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh · (Minister for Agricul- turA): Sir,Ibeg to move:- ·
" That an additional sum not exceeding Rs. 8, 000 be granted to .the· Punjab Gcivernril.ent (Ministries· of A~rioulture, Educatien and L::i3&1 Self-Government) to defray the charge that will come in course of payment for the yea),'. ending the 31st of March 1928, in respect of General Administration (Transferred);"
The motion was carried.
GOVERN:MENT0S DEMAN.DS FOR SUPl'LEMEN'l'ARY AND A DDITIO~AL 763 0:tiAN'l'S, 1927-28.
·. . · Sayad Muhammad . Husain (continued in Urdu) : Sir, what I wani _ 21i<> submit is. that the demand under consideration · cannot be justified. on
'any groundfl,_ in.oral or' eeonomio, unless the Government is prepared to ·-ooneetle to the requests cjf the samindars with regard to the reduction . Jlf . ,abimut, -
·Mr.President. {I think the general question of abiana was discussed ,&t the March Session of the Council when the budget grants were disoussed, "'.D)lerefore; that question cannot be allowed to be re-opened now when supple· :mentary . demands are under discussion.
-T-h~ qu;estion. is:,- " That a s~pplementary sum not exceeding Rs. 5,25,325 be granted to- the Governor· in
• Council to defray the charges that will come in course of payment for the yea, · ending the 31st_ of March 1928 in respect of Irrigation ", ·
The motion was carried.
GENERA,!, AmrrNISTRATION {RE3ERVED) GRANT.
. . The Honourable Sir Geofftey · deMontmorency (Finance Mem_. ~er) : Sir; !beg to ,move :- · · .
" That .an additional sum not exceeding Rs. 1,600 be granted to the Governor in Couruill ._to.defray the charges tha.t will come in course of payment for the year ending thll 31st of March 1928 in respect of General Administration (Reserved)," .
· ._ •. Th~ motion' wes carried,
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JUL 192 • PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
QOVERNMENT~S DEMANl>S FOR SUPPLEMENTAl:l.Y AND ADDITIQN_AL 765 _ GRANTS, 1927~28.
_ constructive thought on the solution or such problems. .(Hear, hear). - To ; bf;'gin with, twill take up the question of the imprisonment of the Editor and, -the Publisher of 'Muslim Outlook', ·· ·
The Ho~ourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : May I' ask, Sir. iithis reference is in order. It has nothing to do with _additional police.
Mr. President : . As a separate motion bas· been tabled with regard fu that _ matter I am -afraid the honourable member cannot anticipate -tliat matter and start any discussion on it. . _ _ _ . _ l\fil"M~qbool Mahmood: I am not recommending anything that is_ covered by the resolution. -. I propose tackling.it from another point of view -
- - -and r am prepared to explain it. .·. ...· -,- . . . - - . - Mr. President : 1f the .argument whi~h the honourable member -wishes to put forward is relevant even remotely to the discussion of that resolution, then he may take it from> me that . he -is out of order and he
·· should not bring in that argument or statement of facts. Mir Maqbool Mahmood: If that is your ruling; Sir, I bow to it .. The
other point that I wish to raise at~this stage, .ia .about the communal _riots' at Lapore and the unfortunateJeeling which preceded those riots and which. continues still in the public life· of. that city. _ To my mind, Sir, - the pres~n~ system of elections is also responsible to a great _ extent in inciting comruullal: misunderstandings among the people.• I· feel th~t the time has come when the Government and the members of this Council should put their heads -together to evolve some system of election, not ne_ce_ssarily joint or separate, under which the rowdyas well as the sane elements of the two communities might work together as a team in the working ofthe reforms and in the service
,of the country. The mere bringing in of additional police and the mere; creation ofa stop-gap arrangement are not going to improve matter;!. - !t_ seems to me that something bolder is necessary to solve this communal
- problem._ I submit, Sir, that the Lahore riots and the present feeling-in, . 'Lahore aswell as in other parts of the provinceare mainly clue to the fal@'
rumours which mischief mongers set afloat, It is only the exaggerated -description of ordinary events that are at· the bottom of all this _trouble. l feel., Sir, that we are in order in requesting tbe Government to bring for_w:ar~ special legislation to deal with the mischief-mongers. I. would also submit, Sir, that the time has come when the Council as a whole should lend its snp-'
- port if the Government adopts measures to deal with the mischief-mongers in - a deterrent way. - The hopeless references in the press of both,, communities, -especially, the references in the_gutter press are the prima,ry
_ -oauses of <these communal disturbances. · I feel, _ Sir, as a- member of the Council-anf I ~m sure ~hat I have the entire support of the reasonable
-elements of the Council-that the Government has not so far used tbe pre-: ventive and controlling powers in the way in which the situation demands. - - - -The:Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorelicy: What powers? .;
Diwan Bahadur Raja Narendra Nath:- Reviving the Press Act;?;: . !\fir Maqbool Mahmood :: _ I mean special e~erge'ncy : powers. _: I _
a:mi one of those, Sir, who, stand for freedom - of.speech and freedom of press ,oil matters of ilatio:n.al importance. Twouldbe false 'to my own -traditions and culture andedueation if I - did" not hold that. -t am one- of- those who would :figh~ any da,y for ~e reasonable free~?'."1 o~ -th~ pres~, aridT hope mi:
' PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE" ootrxcrz.
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." 'I'hatthe grant bereduced by Be. l with respect to the item of Rs. l,00,70S~Addi tional Police for Lahore."
Sir, my object in moving this amendment is to initiate a general dis· eussion op. the novel policy and the n~w method that has.been adopted by the Government.in:£fie ~matt.er of recruitment to the police at Lahore. Before· I proceed further I would like to,ex;plain myself how t_his policy was origi nated. 4s every one of us is aware, in May lestsonie misguided persons at ta.ck!:ld with · kirpans some peace-loving and God-fearing people, who were· returning from the mosque after saying their prayers.. and murdered five of shem.. ·.
Mr. Presid.~t: Order, Order, that is a matter which I understand ia now pending before courts of justice. Therefore no reference ought to be made to fact!! which are in any way involved in that judicialtrial.
S!ll'dat Habib Ullah : I. was only . nientioning fact~ of the. 'few . in cidents that happened in the early. part of May at Lahore.just on the eve of• the- riots. But I would not r~fer to that. particular incident, as you, S:ir,..
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to move:
GOVERNMENT'-8 DEMANDS lOR SUPPLEMENTARY AND·.ADDlTIONAL 76't GRANTS, 1927-28 ..
-Oonrnment at certain times does not take action in time. Whenever there. is any publication from one of the members of ·either community T the Gov-
· emment sleeps over the matter .. When a reply is given by the other eom munity refuting the arguments advanced in the publication, then the Govern-· 'ment wakes up. · The Government generally wakes up only when the feelings of both communities are roused. When passions run high, there is generally . a communal . upheaval and there are riots in consequence. The leaders of.
· each community sleep when inflammatory writings appear. in . the press; When a memberof the Hindu community publishes 11n:y article, the leaders generally keep quiet. In the same way when a . member of Muhan::u;Mdan,. community publishes· an article attacki~ -the Hindu community, -the:
· leaders of. that community sleep . over the affair. '.· Neither of the conunw:uty leaders want "to touch. that .man who commits offence. The so-called leaders do not disown the writer of the articles. What is the· result ? One· member of a community starts the mischief; the member of ·the other· community gives a reply thereto and then the Government wakes up.'. Eyen the members of this House . say :.,---" Oh, there h~ve beell riots · · at Lahore,· at Multan, etc.".. The Pandits andthe Mamlvis .and the preachers of the various communities go round an.cl make. infiamaII)tory speeches and arouse the passions of .the people. · Some 9£ us, who preside· over those' meetings do not have the courage to tell these people that they are in the· wrong and that we do not share their views. .The mischief is done. The inflammatory material bas been set on fire and then. we come to this House and make speeches laying the blame at the. doors of this party or that or of the .Govemment. My submission is, let us all, the Government and the, Hindu and the Muhammadan leaders, do our · duty. Let us all be wide· awake aii<;J take proper steps at the proper time when some of the mischief,.· mongers try to create trouble. · ·
Mir Maqbool Mahmood : I· do not. want to press my motion.' I therefore beg leave to withdraw it.
· The motion was by leave withdrawn. Sardar Habil,Ullah. (Lahore, Muhammadan, Rural): Sir, Lbeg
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PUN.JAB LEGISLATIVE [ · 8~H -JUL 192 • 68
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(JOVERNKENT'S°i>E,ANDS FOB SUPP~EltENTARY AND ADDITIONAL. . 769 . - ··' - r. ·< , ~.- - . /. ~P~lll_TS, }.~~7~~ ·, - -. ·. : ... · .. · ~~·7. - ·OUt,tlie pioyince that,their riglits ate trampled under foot, BO far a~ the High __
Court is concerned. · ·· · - -· .. · \l .;~;: .-: :- -~~ -; , '"'· . C\\:.:. '_ The: :Hono~able Sit_ :.·Geoffrey d&Mont*1oren~y.-: : Si~/ :FtThe,
Jo_:_a·pbinfpf-or.der;-f·ff)he,IIigfi-:U01ll't·.Judg~.are11otappointed by:.thel09al ,:G~ver~ellk . I understand, the .. honoumble'memberJ_s~object isJo' a_isc-1iss
~-- recruitment to a provincial service~-.·• The· High· Court · is-:~not ii prmriwial
__ ·.,: -_,:; ;Jtf:1::~;isideri(:.• That objeri~io~-is rr~tes~~d.· .. The~ef;re,th~_'}io:l~r~ . :. :·-;\ · .•. •- · .- .. ·-· :a"ble lllemher mjgbt refer -to the provincial s~vfoes reciuitijd by t:hEl< Iµg~ :, .__').
~" .. . z i""'-- -0e;rs.pand, tija;t · tne·lug~ei\pos£s'.eveI,J, aie recommeiidedJ)y )he:Jocal:: Gov~~ •. - --. - -\/'inent: 1:Howeve1\Tam not going: totoµ.efr·thenr;-·but::!'!<(:rar)is--:ppovui.cf}1,l .oi -. <~ " •
- ·.JG-OvBrnment· is coneerned-I. 'will make~ a.•few\re:mar]ts0a: The ,Judges~of. > _ ": ·: _- . =- - :-~he" "IIlgh· Court q.re mainl;y' recmited_from one __ class of co~unity, thatis, - >-~- <.-_ -"-.-~:::~:u ii0;:i:i·~~i:1-il:ulla~iJur~i:.~·.J~t:;i- •. f~t~t:·tti?~f J::;_?J:.-·,\;: ,.
'.:> \ ' ... ·:weU~fdted't'hey are :fol.' these'post~ are not alio~ea to ~n:t:erthe. ifo;cteit wallsi· - ••. ... < :,,: • _.;)"°.;: s6£: tlie HighCourt; : '-There bas been a geIIeral .· d'ema:oH from tirn,e: to"time.~f: . · \::.T _:-_tC-hhehqrft11hRftmm~1¥nb'.P:~b1ic anf ~fh-thh~{zithi~nuarlf' Sb\. an~t-~!}rJendd .. Dhprd~r: .. :· ·:"- -~",~,:~.
· , . o u _am w ill • e~r ·me .<>u,u, a-s e. .as . · mse rougll 111.J.01:war .St)_µia,n,y -· ·'1iinies in this Council, that theshare •.of. gariuridil.Ys .du- th~epostif'is,ver;y_
· , .sma}lan_d<tlia;t,we sb:o.uld be giv~ a.Jull-refl!'~sen,tati<il! so iaJ'. as this commn-; ·· · :~wtyis :~?n~erne.cr~-,4~ iegat!ls: -the !tpp.otnttilant of Judg~ Lca.iin0:t :say any~_
-·~thing.but-no doubt .G~vernmen,t can recomine~f-tQ ~th~xbig~r- aµ,thciritiei .: _- - . Mr. · :PrEiside~t : , wh~i\ I rulticlA lia.flhe i~~rio~ai>iJ:ihe:tiibtei-~~uld be .
. ~:reievanfiµ bringing in' recruitment 9:f 6tlier cl~pariments; under Gover.nm~;g.t~ \r·afd nop mean tha,t he . eoiild diseusa the recruitment by-tlia High C<!urPa.a ..
i.: .. <;ll'suost:intiyimotion -. bef.ore_:the House. -He oannotmalre these ·Berviee, •. · -
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_· . f lld<jpted;'ib::Qther,:}?r~n:chet :of adinixush'ittion..~ ::S-ut_w hat- ~tohj.ect. to~is.th~: -: - . - ;';Jm',CillD.St~*e-~ -W~ifer:.wlliel{!J$ ·d-emand)>f ~ t:ey(pel'SO¥, :c>laJ~'.\V igitit-Ors;_ ••.
c...;;}las be1:1n~gqneetloo.·: a;n:d ,thus so ma~y: ~ndns· 9-~10 t,~ }ake.nhi:theLali9rEi- - ;.P?lfc~·:forrr,:·,Tom.?troW we will l!ea,r;)il(f,~~:·)t~]~-e:~J~ea~Y:Jl~g-,in .
·_.t;"· ·. ; - -~~>;~~-,.?"·. -:-~:::~ii~·.>·:~
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PUNJAB LEGISLATIV
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771 , ~oov:mtNHENT's DEMANDS FOR suPPLEHENt:ARY.AND ADDITIONAL . . . - GRANTS, 1927-28~ . .
r > . Nearly 40 years ag~ a riot took place ·at Hoshiarpur but it w-as of a ~:ery short duration and occurred at the time of the Dussehra,Muharrani festivals .. Riots also took place at other places but always on ~hesel~stivals. - Pre cautions by members of both communities, therefore were taken only on sueh occasions. . The condition now is quite different, there is -always a dread that somet~g may happen even when you go out. ~e have becozµe _
-Iess toletantof--eachother.' . _ . '-: _ . - :,- - -· .. All the communal riots that have been _taking place during- these last
-/-few years .resulted bepause one community insisted - tnat Dns~-ehra ot)I.'azi~ - _ ,.-,.,pro~essioxi,mu~t be allowedto'paes a particula:r; w_ay·and the other comniu,mty:
:resisted t;hat demand or because one- community- opposed the beating of - ·. -drums before' mosque and the other community tried to ride r~qgl;rshoci
,,-;ovedna:t opposition, or onlicommunity :wanted~o takethe_sacrificial cowjm,'. ·- procession through, a route- objected to by the other community. If/ ti,, _: -
member of one community happens to be alone and is a stranger in a mohalla of the other community he is .attacked like a coward and his life is not safe,
:And on the top of this whenwe come here in the Council, some of us.maka _ _ such speeches which not only tend to aggravate tlie situation, but still furthe:r·,
.embitter communal feelings. These riots have become a matter of almost, . .daily occurrence and no ·· one feels safe· in these days. The sad picture
-, that our country represents to-day is, in my opinion, wit_hout its parallel. Even the most uncivilised country cannot be said to-have witnessed such
- state of affairs as are obtaining in this country in these days -. Every ilidi· vidual, bowev_er non-violent; feels the necessity· of arming himself, .with )omething when gouig 'out of his · house. lest. some evil-mind,ed cow~dly ::,-persqn of the other oommunityshould st1J.p him from behind.' We should-be-
.;;:ashamed of Ourselves of what is happening in Ofil.' country in the_ twentieth· :century and w~. should hasten to remedy tbjs .state-of affairs. - we should
=. .J1otwa.ste our time in blaming- this leader or that. S<;>Ille speakers fa- this , - - ,Rouse: have blmned--t4e: Jeaders .i9r their presiding over; m~etings•:Where
· ; strong· conun1Inal:Je~gs ha.Tir-bee;n expr~Bsed-<~J: ~no~ 'if <m.ost of them . ,:·:pie_si<le: or ta~e:p~t In th~ :meetings of the.µ: ~-r~Iig:iorii~t~, t!,i_ey ~o ll~-notof > their own' accord, ppt .becausE1-they are ~mpelled- or -forled to-do so. One
- . honourable meµiber of the ilou~~ }µii!: again rp.ised t~e qu_eitio_ri of zamint:fars ··- Jind non-zamindars t0'4ay -and hits tried to SP,O)V- that -~amindars ar~ b~£ter _ : 'Jitted to dis(?harge:t-b~ duties of-police officers., .• ~,··Ori t~_ o,p:e. halld you viish : - , t.C>)ee the last-ofbilnjas and onthe o~herycfi,1 suppo~_,a.ci1lliti9n of foreign __ -
,-~-btn1,i.as-by p~etu~i}lg t};teirrule.· For God'ssa.lc~d_ongt~kethe maii{ers - . 'WOl'.!il~ for the s~je of sru,f-aggr-andisement.- Do not-allow the Gov.ermn.enHo :; 1IPP9S~ UpOtJ. y9u ~lnfpurden bf further-taxation t9 Ill;) incurr~-on:additfofial .: " .-,police.-I Cali: a$$.:llle-y9u t:tiat: additional police will hot help to aelueve _- , th~H>bj eot you havein·vje;w 1~:., - Improve your eonditdon in such a way thafthe- ' , ,, need forpoliee should not arise. - ,With .th~~e =w,9rds I resum~ my-- ~eat; -_ > -~i:- ·-- Pandit Nanalr _Cu.nd- -[Hoshiarpur (NoJ1°M11lia~a_d~). R11ral] ! Sir, - ,
-: ;-·".· ;i2~-lloo•- _ - -;: _.c .;,-.1 w~s_gt~aply-·ple~~ed··a~4-~I" ~~~-g~o~ ~~o C_o~r~~~~t~: - -,, . -; . . · _ : ; ,my honourable jnend ·¥ir ,Maqbool-.Mahnlood, . for
- ~ 'l>l'J.P¥1ng so_m«tv_ecy sound propoi!_~s for- ·~oipg·:aw:ay wi~k F4~-c;99roiiniii.a.I .~ _,tension ~hich-,results 'in these conimunaJriots~. But I _atn ma.idlieither.
:, J n9r any other sober n:ie~ 'Qi Wis i!oµse woll:ld; 90J:lg!itu1a~:mi ,u~rid - . - who Md proposed the motion under· discussion.· What is 'the deinano/we
are dis(?UB&Dg :?,.,:So~e DlOllths·ago a.larg~ ]!UJnber·~f UlllOCeiitpeople W~re .~'!:- ' . - - . c. - • .:: • • • ; • • • . • - - •• - ---. -
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: G~~~,s· 1>EKANDs).011:su:e1>t:sME:Ni'ARY AN1>::.:omT10NAi. .·· · 77.f}~f .·. . . .G~ANTS,,192'l-28.- .. _ .
. :-:tnrinoil arid trciuliUi, llt'hink, is,a shameful'thing and we-should be; asfumredv .. of:it. '.Wfare,{IJiBwel'~bl~ :not.only, at the· bar ot4µ~I¥,ty;iqr,t49,~~es ..
_Jshat are b_eing:comxr:\i.ti.mUo-'da.Y,Lbut weareana"\\'erab~e tq;Go.d•'&nd la1meM · to ,:qtY f£i~~s wh~i"W ~itt~.Jere that they s~~t4d g0: 'bg~t,~~; CO~Q.ei;nn .· those .measure~ ~nd,. they; shquld. not only co:n<ieJm1these~ l)ut iJ the;r- ~t.Et,'" sinc~a·in th~ heart _they 'should call all' the leaders' to_ a· conference.· 11;, doeirnot niatifor if the: Hindus · have to ma.k;e wme ·s~tinc~-f-Qrs t,h~;M,q:J,liJ.m· ·
. rimdaris 01" theiMuJJanunadans haye t.o make:, SO-Ill~- s~erifi~es- for· the. sa.kt.f -, of the Hind:ww Thes(fleaders shnnldfeel t.bat they ate n:tailil:y i'esponsiblit • . . _, for the· xnisdeooi that a.1:e committed by the people.'. It is no. use . making ~:. '. ·. - -: deiliandOtlunotion ofithe Gov.emment"a .. peg onwhiC.hto hang.t-heir~nun:i:uwl:.: ·
,. quarr'els ~nd seti th.e p'roYiii.ce aflame. We- ire re!!po.risibl~: fiJr ~ll:- > ~- - , things that'are going on in the P11njab (Hear; _~a,:). I think it i~ necessary._ .
tha.t instead of po:rni,ng here and making the )rind of speeches that. ~ave - . be~nmad"e, a;tt'ackin~ thig department and that, it is our duty "that we should, ta~kle the W:bole ptoblem in 8. sincere and religio~_spiri~ ,and see -tnat this:: ~curr,ence of e_yeryday occurs no more. It is no use blaming Government · .
.. or.asking the Govenunent)1ot1i'o adopt those measures which the Go:v01:nm'.en~; i~ · adopting for th.e; suppression· of the deplora;ble <irimes:, -. \Some. of: thecieaders make .use oH4.ese. people for committing: critties ~nd .. misd~dif ~.nd keep tbeinselv~s in the back-ground and there is no evi<fence brought- '
. ~ainstthent _ However the Government has to_taclde _t'h'.e .. si~uatioi;i 1.LS it - 'presents itselt anq. it is th~r.eforejustif\ed in aaking ,tor the _additional pqlice.~ ,
-,,But- as·_ I have said ther~_isabsolutelv no reason for honourabl« members; - to get.tip ari<l#iii.:k6t~ekindolspee"ch ~hich has beenmade .by-·my hono~r~: able friend Ha.'biTf Ullah. - . . / - - - .: -- / , , -°' ' .' -, -~hau~ Dtali Chand [Kamal (Non~Muhamm~da~). J;tq.ralJ (Urdu:) -~: Bir, the: policy .1:etjt1ntly adopted by tho Government 'With- regard to the ·re:.
- . ~tmeni of . a.qditionhl . police . for . Lahore- ~ims ~t removing _thi paucity Sor ·:Huldus_in t4e poli~ department, Sir, it wouldhave been'betfur"if;tlle word
·HiJitlu _prul- ~en. d.e~ed. - n by Hindu ia meant a; nori-a'griciiltu_rist ilinau l · .· w~#d · suhriµt,:thatJlie t>olicy. of the, Gove~ent -; 41 sure. to· me,et ·. ~ith oppom·
tiori. _Sir, the ~ufuns of._Hin'tj.u z~de.rs should not have·D(ffln lost:sight of, &.;._ ,ca.'1$0 i,n-th~t c~ J a.Ill. SU!e tha.t the honourable members now opposing ,tl!&- . $feniatid would_ .not have opposed- it. But Sir, so far as T understand the
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·- _ ·i policy <>f th~ Govorn.t4ent is unfavoumble to the a;grictilturists and indi!l~ . ·- ·· "/) gent. ·kt. - !~e _ - . non~w¢culturisis. The Government. fools that the union
,- of the_P-.Q~erlt~ltrioos such as, Ra.jputs, Jats, and Sikhs is an appai:ent danger _- to ,jts presti~e_ a.rid ~hey must not unito t9gether:-.-. _()f coursa ifow t4e polloy-· : pf tlie :G9yerµmeµt is :µ~t .favourable to the ~d~t- Bir; the: ciroular•id.
'. · · hl.1915 li9inot_h,e~ b,ill£ ~ctedupon, ,If it h~ been a~ted,updp. ~y n~itlier the :Musliins, nor ·-~a- Hmdus would have any -griavarictJ at- a.IL Ahothi,r
- ,-,; ~m,iula~ .issue~ in 1919 fixed the zamindar ·representation in different propq:r- - }ioDS)n, ~.v~riou,s ~:mn.c1:i~s of administration; b~t, ~ir; I lin _sorryto remilrk
Umt a}J suohpirciilani have ~:m~ined practically.a dead lefter, - Tlie Govern- . *1,ent Ji~ye ,o&:rr,neld out. prOIDlil08. to gra.Ilt 00~ concessions to ~ars · ·
-·~~~ ~~~ jafi-1>~_ ~~~.-- g~ fa~ •.. _·sir,,-ro~ /1¥'s •ka __ do. not_ ~ppoiti(a. · · .. 11oµ-.t.a1fllndar mridu a·s _a· pol.ice .. ortice:r lor ·ha is sure to o:reafu · tron'ble for ull.
, ·~a~1tt: "t~a~ ::~:'m~~!°#Ja:.~~ .~o. ~~r }~~~-- .~o~-1\ ]findu
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PUNJAB ;LE_GISLATIV
e Honourable Sir Geofhey ii, in the ob.seryations I shallm
udhri Duli Chand: Sir, I ·the honourable'member rose onl
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__ .~ I do.not~';' what niyhonourabl~ friend_ fr9fu ·Katu~i-b~s.h~e_11- doi!lg:: _ dtiring t_he hot weather, whether hehas been sleepin_g in.. bifi_Ho.~~ _beoau:ae\ :a great number of recruits caime from the. districts in the ~st of thii_ ptoY1J!~ ;_
.. ju whioh, he is.interested· and mainly from the classes _,of .the. Hindus,'_Jats; - .. -.· ·/. Bajputs,:Guja.i:'s 'and A:hir'$.' _ Therefore, Sir, I hope r made it clear to h,onQttt- _ :able members iha.t in :recruiting tM .additional police. for~La.h_ofe,_· ,the~ __ b.aif
· ·> been . no· .. departure - from ., the· general - _policy -- which _- Gove:rnm~.t, adoptiJ. ip;;: · ·: recruiting for the purpose of provincial and subordinate iervitl0!{ jmq_ J Ji~~.-
. Lhave satisfied those inemhers who 'had some.doubt a.s·to. wh(3th1t the right; ·· · .oless of -persons are being recruited. _ _ · ·
- _ Sa~dar Harbakhsli' -Singh_.[.l:[oshiar-pur and _Kangra,' (~1kh), Rurall _.,, ,(Urdu)_: ·Sir, it·gaveiriereallymuch·pleasure whenJ hear<lt~espeeohm~4tt
_ . by the honourable member Mir 1faq-bool Mah~ood - on a silaj].8.! ;~l!~ on tJ:te/ - same item inasmuch · !'.l,s it· -sugg_este.(i how-it w:as possible-t~ see_an~encl<
__ ·-: .otthe communal riots a;nd desired to ere.ate a, ca.lm'atmospher~ i~this Hog.se,;, .• i , ·Jt.was_my desire to give mywhole-hearted support to what the~honourablec;
. . member had said, butthe dj.souSSµ>n on t_he subjeo_t-~VlllfJ:S.topped{Si», :at you,t ins_t!cl,nce, I could not do ~o/ ,~c,on after ihat T:had to hear- anotheii, __ :and a different kind of Spl300h on the niotion. before th~ House which I 111u'.st: ;
· -- .. say): is -not conciliatory. and resembles the tumnltuoit~ state ~f. th~ publiC: _ - ·C>utside and has set t)ie 'i:1e;rves ot"~his House a.t ends>and created niotio:g./ · \lt givas_me pain tosajthat~e ar~~ghting over loayes and fi~hes. · What:
--- 'We do.we -do only a.a:ffindus, Mtth8'mmdans and Sikhs.- We_J1a.v'Ef_:rie-vef jhought of approaching th~ ~if!erent''problems th~t are agitli.tintr wr·~ ·_ fodians ~nd fr-0:rn .a.Ji Indi~~point':of :tlaw. _·· IIi hoJ-ding the Council :S~ons .
. of the-oountry we.are._ app4rerttly_'co_pying the ways a~d.'ma.nn~itoftb9se : ·blessed nati,ons who: are, w.liole~hea.rtedly .- $e:rving: t_peir ~onnt~Qn ip ~~ ~otd-S of onr Gttrn'"··· ··. ·.. ~:---_ ,._;.-:·~:_~':.·;_-;~ _(,"°.~ ,:. • _· .·.·:~' i' ·:·_- \ ::=_:.:~ .. ·. _· ,·.· ~: :2_:_:::_~:_:,~;_· . ,<~--
. ,}f ~' ' '!,;jt>.~ ;(; I'\< -j•J.,w i.:-1·· ·tJ.:t.lJIJ f.:.;:f,( • ·w)-_ _:.;~ •c,(..,_,c;~,c .. · ' - -/~·::·r:· \:r":"~; -'-~'¥ -.,F~C- \-..:,,_-!: ~ ·-.-- ••;.--·" .. :~~-~~-·:
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. 2 'head constables nnd 84 oonstables:.:: ~' _ c: ' - - :;[.,: ; > !lh(1ad constal:!les and 122 coiista-J)les f . , .
· H. 2 head con~tables and 67'.oo:qstables. •
Sikhs. , Jliridus -·
Muslims
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. ';} :- - _ dOV~N1d:ENT'S -DEMANDS FOR SUPPLEMENTARY AND .ADDITIONAL 775 : ;~d~~S"'°}T'":->:~,; c GR.A~~; 19!27-28. , -<,PI
· 1 think, what esn justly ba 'called an undue prepouderanoe, _ Varioiu m':lmbs~. __ __ ofthis:HollSe have urged.at various time.s the recmitment of more Hindus a;np:-~. -
': Si]qis in. thaJowei ranks of sthE , police and partic~rly as h~acl - c9n~ta.bles,. - _ .. _ _ _ _ and.· foot OPMtables. and:, generally_ .spaa. king, for th~( _r!!!lS<>~ _ tha.t f have mil~- 0
/- ·tionad; :tpair: suggestions ha.va· been accepted an4 trb.i(:l)Qli9Y ~ _-tlle"_po1i_oy::9f,. - · '. · .":the Govemmimt. ·- - - But<.:hitherto -. owing - to. : Iaok. - ot_ a.t~~tio!'ls;~~, IIin~~' ·
. ..ruid Sikhs :octha·right class, who were likely to be :efficient; h~d. AOt° -bE!a1{;. · ·. ,ordinarily forthcoming. - On this oo_oasion we determined -~ to ma}{(:l _ i 'vety~ _ _
· .: - :BPecia.l _effort.:The term: of service was short ;-·.-the .emolnments inclt;id.ing~< .; _/ speoia.L.allofy:a.rice' inLahore was fairly good. The men had chiefly to b-ea
: employed 0A patrol and ,watch and ward duties· which were semi-militaty7 • .duties. We ~herefore, hoped to enlist military classes'of Hindus .and Sik}Is-.,< - - suchas' Jat Sikhs·and.Dogms and Ja.t.Bajputs, _Ahirs and Gujars in the Ea.st-·
·tern Punjab a.nd: other- such . classes. - We made special' efforts- to. that e:ffeo~,, and gs a re$Ult, the eoinposition ofthe remainder oHhe 850°additiori.al police:·, , .at Lahore· is as follows :~ · · - · --~- · '-·:°': '_
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PUNJAB LlilGISLA.TIVB COUNCIL,
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. ·_:.t _ '/-'\ -~:· ~-' -.rT:._>1 ~-..-_ ·: , .. :, ... , :·_;f~·:;.,.- ;: .. : _;_: -:::.. ,,:: .... _.- : --:- ,·-_ ·· • .- i :::_~_~ .': OOVEBNIIJIN'l!1S I>:&KANDB Y1>B - SUPPLEMENTARY . AND ADDITI<il!i AL 771
- . . -GllAN'l'S, 1927-28. \,;r :;, ;(;£),,;,.: ~~ ,_,, origifi 'cfof,tlia pt_~en1(distli:rp~)lc~lfffj,Jid; th~ pr®;:rit ·<iµietefl~ Tbet~eiftin{ di"lreie'iit ·e(\mfutliiities. - - ·1·:t ninlr the causes'' cannot· bee:- :disco\rered:Ieitile't uk tli'e -mont)i'l>fMiiy 1:927 ·of iii tfi~ tim~iJfim;emittely "phic'ooi"rtg tt; ·jfr~:'-'•totlt:: eJtmr !11"-:llitilfi jirthe'Je~pi'ession w ni"~}fhaS:.l>ee:tr uied' S-0 0.ft'en·in 1lhis: Jlo.uBIY
·tfus li\o'iftfug.'''"'ofJ;J:i.ese":dilforences'.U~'irithe'factth~Vit~arerffiiidtts/M:li; · halniruad~ns~a.idSifms';:::_.of'couts'e/tliaf'tioot·ean:sluwifcamnot eiadtcatEfi,: Tliese'.~dilfei'en~·es7fil'reli@.~n oNjastilor oiood · ate"mbr~ ~fess J{etzn~nent ~antb will" ~tirttie": ~wij tieed"1i-0t;7;}1ow~ er ;io:.._ oaoJt :a;v.ety. lor{g tinrejir ord-er to" dishover4l1ifcalisesrof :th~ ptesent·~ifferei:ice"s;·.'.7,!f-~e'tr~elback. ~nitl6i~- peijoa i>ffitb<iti.f eig1'll years, we:h3.hall /ind that1n 1919" ther~·v;ras' 1r great·dwL at:Iea~t-oftalk"M~~yranua.t:l_e~lt'.here:was:atiappatentaoseneeofdiffereftc(:lj betw~er( t-ha aifferenl: rcemimiruties , in>this·::·pr<rvine"eT so. t1I8it - sonnithin-g; Iriust lfaveJiappe}led;-sinee t9rn~: not to go-fltrth:et'Jiac~; which nas set"the .. different oommupities· by the ea.is.·. .In 1919"i thete liseit fo b~ :procession-s: o[ cliff erelit :"eomniu.nities: without any Jet "<>l' }ij.ndtruice and. the. members of the diff eren,,t ·oozru:r:iumtiei took' part ill £hose: prooessions fo "order. to de-~ monstiat_e their urllty r:atlier ,tlliin their: dislitlity~~ · At that-:t-hne · a;U :were
- - ·. wµted Pl! t~e surfaefe.-· . :f o~ical ~ecessity tlien made us so. - It was' ima@u-, . ' ed'on bofh ~iges; or .on ·all tlireeB-ide\s; tha:t J.J).ei'~lycbeeauae we said. we:were· •,.
lfmted{the Tesult" lVOuld 'be actual unity }Whereat; we· should. have considered' .- that there could' be no unity,' Jhefe could be no peace QJ:.. there cou).d' b~n&'
.. -l~tin:g . treaty :·beiweeri the· diff efent. <iorrununiUes . unless .the t-ermi! "Ol:t"liaf p0aQe'or tb,at ~reatf werfsettled cl~arly a~d definitely 1;1.nd· were·afterw-ard$"' consistentl;y .adhered to;·· AU ·that was done·therr waslhat under political pr_ess*r€th~ l~aderfof. tli~ differeiit_ccimmunities:.agreed ,to hiy_ asicru -their
. diffe'renc.esiot atime in or.der to fight what·was them desctihed.asthe cOlilm.Qtf -· ~neiµ§: 'After thiti. pr~sw.'e was withdra-wn aha. the Mminunitie~ beg~n:
to :4onsider·tll"ek ownjnterests~ _ they .found that-:thete llid re-ally"been_no p~ace-or unity at;:fill. . The difforetices had only been 'laid aside and had nut lieerf se~tled .~ .·. Each of the liwo: principal. commUD1ties'. imagiried that the~
_ · treaty or the pe~~~ would l«:i~d fo a_state ~f exis-t"e:nce·or ciicumstance-s with ·- -· .~· wlifo1i" ~ach· of ·th_epi~:Xs Ja:miJiar '. ·,::The MnMrim~a;ils 'supp_osed·,that',tbis ·- · p;a,ce would l~~a: t<fW"s~i:(m rini~euf_amily in -i~ch:~h iiie--m~ has. a _dis~:
~frici/sha:(e and iscallowed to enjoy it fo its f'iillest :ex.tent.:: o~ the other_hali(l the Hindua supposed that· it would form uSinfo aj"o1nt, Hindu family"'\Viththe ~~~o.r JXJ.emper.-as t4e k4rta of the family.and wit4.the-wliol~ -of the pow,er:
: the authority arid the_ property onhefamily v~tM_iri the karta to do with - -.~_·-·~i,~l~r~hejunic9illa~b!)1httrsgye;~~~:~~t!~i:~P;~erMt~~e;·,···~::·</r· ..
~-~'c'. ~]faµ~~-' . _Kb_b : - IO:"afu- speaking .an?ftih.,ere~6fo it is my. ~t:ei:pretati~h. ,.Irr :_other. words',. ~aoh "coij\mimi~y .. suppoefeu~: with~t. SflY. ~fr~~t~~}~I,l~ _.:~~)io~~ -'any_ ~'efin~te %i~tleili;~IlJ, }fi,t "it_ n,a~ ~,11 ~o~.~t:1~ w-Ii~t 1t Ji~4:· O~DC0!Y~.~. to .!>e'1~s. nght~; •.. Tne weaker ·commm;uty supposed
-. _ t~t · they_w9µId_ b~·µ:ait~d)!Ite· a young01, an:a 'a· waalr~r . b~oth·ar \>y :_tli~ st'iong~~ ;~omnniiuty_ im'd, would. be _ given ;ce~am advantag01fto. whio}l lliey w~i.#<?fh.~f'iitii~~1;v-:enliiti~~ }iut ~hi(Jfr w:~*1&'netp -thenf to ·p1~~ th~rri~v~ clµ_~-~· ~inJ Ievel'Wl'il~ 'their• _elder 6'r8tliet. ,~-oh the 'other band, -tfi~: eldE3't
-· ·• bfiptn~r ~npp_813b~ 'tb.~t. ~ei:"•:i:" wot4d, o~ nti {uftiiei sqtu~bbles''e.hcl.tb.at be~o~ forth. this .uri,ity Br, eaee'would" allow hixri''to'e'oiitiriua'~undisturbed m t11e iss'°sessioh ''iili.~f en}oynient 'of''tfrEi/~'pprJp¥l~tfons ithich hif liid alreiay made and ·which be might succeed in me.king in .{uture-. Such a. unity
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PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE
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dOn!RN:M'.ENT'S .DEl\lANDB FOR SUPPLEMEN'.U.R'Y 0AND
-A:DDITIO NAL 779 . ~.-·"·~-~- .. .: - ~ ·.-atiANTS~·t~27~2s.-.:~~:-~· .. _ .. ·.·-·.~-.. _ ~-
-. · upon :the . sympathy which the Honourable Minister {i#d. his .· subordinlte3 _ -at~: able to afford for the a.gricultutjsts. It isidle t<filo~tenil ·th.'lt -beesuse -
jr<>!l :-dep~n<f. up~;i. S:grioultiire :·m~ly therefore .. you ri~ecCnQt .· wqrry a.bout, Govel'!lment appointments .. I say that in.. order -io·,help ;~grioultu.re,. you haie to \vorry about ·th~- Department of · .A.gricul~ure·a.nl sitnila.rly a.bout .. iniiul!tries~- You \va.nt - to ·encourage industries, aind. youJa.y-t1ra.t Govern;~ ment~ha.s 'nothing to do witli them .: Iaa.y that the Hov.ern,m.ent has aver-y ~ thing- to do mtti -theniin 'this · province. Industry iain its infanoy in thitf -
. :country and partioi:dtnly ·111 this" province, atiifit ,fa _Olllj. -w-ith' G)V()Min.9,Qt .. -, .. support that it ean' ever hope" bo make any sta.n"dj~--:tM fut11fo:~ Ipwilf
. dQpend .a; great deaf upon !the-~ttitU(fo and upon the.poli¢j: of the ·Ho.nourabla '_ Minister iri charge of the Industries Dap:1rl!ll3D.t "upon what" im9a ind1f3try .•. i,s to proce)Hfm this provinee and.in what m 1IlU}r and in - What, propol'tion;j:
.the" different comtnunities a.re to benefit by ft.: . . .. · .·. . . ... . .-- Take each depirtm.:mt in turn an:l you w:tl find> that e3,rih of tho:,!3- . OdC11patiorni or professions which you. haY<J dsseribed ·ag , J.)tlVil,tB, depandf
for:'its encouragement, support and improvemsab uj>_op: a O)rre3pondin3: ,department of Govern.t113nt~ and each comfuuuity_ is n·a.ti:p:~lly {J,nX:i<>:US_
. tfraf~part from the· diia."ctrjID.')lume;:itg whieb mambers of that eommanity\ )wQuld•- get for being. empli)jred in ariy particular; "departtn3nt, thef shoald' · . hive .a largenllrribar. ·orthei1~fellow rci'lrnbati. or tM.t'C)Ol:UUUityiuea.oh,.
• ·dipartment so.as to be ableJo guimf tbeiutarasfa of;th'eir,own 00:U!Illlnit.t• · in each ·department.:· Tfi~i:efore· therais.ri:1turally ·al de:;ire/whioh·I do not":, : -C~_:ndBmU, Oil. each &1U0 - tiJ -obtain - as larga a Sh %ra; iii eash · dapartm 3Ut as>-.
may be possible undiir th'l cirJ111.:i:11t'l.U'.l33. Yon say 'tha.ftha l)re,ent strife.-. between. the communities: has nothing to <Io wi.th "sersioes but has to do .. _ . wihl:i l\faharram pro60;1sions{or with the killing of eowsoc with the beating ·
-of drur,ns._. · These I have stated are merely minife,tu.tio'nfof the real trouble. ' Nobody used to quarrel over thesethings, They ai~ rioqhings which have
·been newly introduced. -- People quarrel because they".want !l.:pratext to ,qnarteJ. They are bent upon quarrelling because they do not trust each-
_ .; : .other, because they have no confidence in each other.~··; •. ; , .: •.. ~ •.••• · , ... :·~ . Mr. President: Ithirik I have tolerated, more.thau l o~ghtto have,
·the .digression from the question now .before the\House~ ''lfriese ;speeches · · would . perhaps be quite appropriate when. the motion of adjournment is
discussed at the close of. to-day's business. . It is .true that I: allowed .one of - the. honourable members to bring in communal tension but surely .. tbal' cannot make it the sole subject of discussion while the :reor~itment of th-0 .additional police force ·-for. Lahore is being discussed," . ..• . -".
--- Chaudliri Zafrullah 'Khan: Very well, Sir, ·L :have ,uea,:dy .oon ·_;eluded• that portion . of _my. speech as the resµlt . pf, your · liMral . allovva.n._oe, ·
9~ time to me on this question and I was -0o~cluding by. ~ying that Iagree_d · with l'IlY .-honourablaJri~d Pandit Nanak. Ob and '-tbs.ft '\V;0-· oannot J~ettle
. -:~.4is-:qttestion ili thi_e, Qham);>er, but I do: not agi:oe "\vith hi#i that. we Oa.?f .. ' · • ,,:s~ttle · it a.:m.ong ourselves/ In saying that he is cou..rifuig witbout · the host~ ·•
-_ All effo~s tosolve tlµs p:i;oplem must include th~ Government in order\· tl:Lat the :results may be permanent. No settlem~11.t' ~ill be lasting unless
,.fiove!'Ji'ment is. a, party. to : .it, and here .. lies tha responsibility. of . 'Govern;. - :'merit. It is .for Government to. oaU tog~ther a oonferen!}aoJtbe le'aders
,l>f mfferent"oomniunities · an:<l :fo_ find out th'l w)y3_- aµd ·m;31n, for putting 4@. end .fo • these trotibles; ' • . . • ' • :< '... • l ... ·. ·:... .,-:, -~ ,'~: - . - .· - •. ' - ·- . . -
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: _ -0ta sudden an order under section 144; Crimirml Proc.edU:r,&-qocte; fotAid4ing ·ihe .. convening tjf pablie meetings was promulgated by the, Distpct ·!vlagistiatar
. !iahore'. ~ Sir, in:rny opinion the action taken by: the J)istrict :Magistrat,e, •. ~ab ore is uncalled for and cannot. be justified on ariy • grou~df wha t~oever .' - ...
_ . Mr.· :ete,i.dent : The District Magistrate of Lahore's order or' section 1.44; Odminall'r.ooodute.Code,Js not now under diicuss.ion. If the honour, . JC
.· .a.b]'flmemb~r wjll:refe~J;o his own. motion he will see that· hiS.$peciffo obje~t.-_-f . , fato censure the polioe ~orce for J>ea,tfog the u,nder~trial prisimers ot Lah9te · }
, · ~ i: _ -riot eases an;d the .volunteeis,artested under section 144~. Cririiittal · . P,ocedu?e ..... · .: .. ,P6d~.. So it is th_e alleged .beating of. the persons arrested by this .additioll8,l
.... -. Police force· and not tho order itself which is undsr.discussien.. · ~ - '. · ~:~
~ -_ •. _-._-•L·;;,·_:;_·._\;t·Ji:ih~sh:~d~~e~~~~t~~1ea(~iief~~~~%nui~?·a~~1a.t-~1~~a!:56~t~:.· . '> '',; ).' · .: _It m;i,y be:arguedlhatJaw; afi& said, should be resp.actor or ·p~t~ons '~nd-tp;it.t
· --. :' · ·~ ·the Government has the right to vipdicate the, law 'and bring thii offenders.1o • • ">. . . book. B~1t-Sir, -~hat happened before.my eyes;it is n9t for-the poifoe ·'6ut.
·-the Government to he ashamed of. On the 4th aridii>th imitants; e~rfain ,: o-: .. ·volunteer&- went to the;city in order to offer oivii disqbedience:t,o the -'ordk.
_ ... , .- . . . promulga.te:cf _ p'y .the. District.- )fagistrat~ .•.. f_l'.lie : -Govs:rmnep,t .shogld ·;:have" 0.?_ __,, .:arrested iind_.punishedthen;t;..as_ '; they liave dq1_1e'afterwarda.- -Bir, the atroei-
.: .f,- · '-'" ;r:--·ties perpetrated im ~he iiolunt~r_s· reviveq: the i;n~!l19ry. oLwpat happened , - "" ·: · • r ' ~- .a,t the,. G11rg.- ka- Ba-gh.: It is all tl!e-more shamefult~at ev ilff the ·resptfnsiple ·
}:police.· offie~ri! bastin1t9-oed.:_the poor· 'volnn~eers .. f?ir; the· highhandM -: • :··riess of the poli<ie officials is amply proved fo cases. ehallaned . in \foi).nectillti· ,
t3' ;}with j;h~ i!}¢ent ~aµ9re nots.' For _insta\!ce, tn:iay 'J!lQnti-Oll: ,tlie naxne ·,of ac- . f ;:t \ 'CUS~LL liar ilopal '.9n :wµom.. nine injuti0$~were 1llfl,fot~<l,. PY tg~c~police d iJ.t!ng · , . } . > < .· .. ·: inv~stigation, .· .. _ A .:sirajlar .·treJLtment • Fas . also· meted __ put ''toe:,1t.:~il~h. :accused t·:: ·; .. -,,; t :Satnu·Smghby.n~e-who ~~eived al;<5ut seven i::11jl!ri0SJt'lf the hands of1}e' . ' .: > _police., : H the 'honourablsmembers of the. Hqus~ h911estly ~eliev~ in :the.
_)'gen,uin~Iiess 'of thlJi~µia.nd ~or aqditio:µal. pcolice, t have 'no objootion tcfit •. . ..,_. , '. _ . .. /~ l{y µ(l®Stic 'Vie-w ~jhat the_ l'0<lrWtl'.neiitJ>f lls~djti<inal:J>()liCe .Ca:rinoj, ii:r iriy . ; 0'~i:• ... >·>· },f!2>Yc st61t~¥~ ~tll~i;tt:.C:~llllD.Unal penaj:on~ b11t Jj)~Jhe ~et ~d_it wa,w{jn:. '.· · ,., · , . -.~ptqb~bility:1n~rea1;ert; Ta;ke1tforgranttid:!h~tthe·de~~d:fot;9!d~ ·.· ··, . .,,. - ,?>i pqlice isgen.unte bufI-ask, u . th&' disgrace~-- treattt\en,t _referred .ta auo_;ve
·~ ·,·:;~ ~l.a6_jgdi;spepsible.- .. · Sir, _)he Jo~_al: Gove:nµnent $ho.~d make jj:,cc}~ar , , ·:,~at•_in ca;s_es 0£ civil_'.discibeo/illl~El ~1?,Y }hay pnK_np ~t_hjhe _ ~ost·obje~i~:1--
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. . . tY, . · :?5 :. : , ·. :~lot1,e where ·suelrev-eirts 'h8;;ye .haHp~ned' _o1'.:~4ere -:~~e-people of _.the :province'- d\> .
. •. J::; _. (- \t .: i}ave. ~aken·.t:q .disobedie,nc-a of l_aws. ,, In, BengaLpeople. have been,anested .,; . - . - : .· ._ ; - by: the t~ousand-s. . In·. Southern To:dia :aud :M~as P'JOple ha."V'e ~etis.ed
~ '-:· ~ aa.tyagraha, yet the police.have never handled the situationmthose 1>rovinces- .· : . . and ha ve;irev~r ·beaten.tlifl pe@le .ao mer9ilesslp1,s@ey JiavaUonti liere in. the .
• ) : blesse{l Ia.nd <iftl;m fiv~: riv~a.) ijii.vEir. have-· they thO:uglit. ()L-\lispertfiµg 'the·, • . - · .. - . -" - • : - ~ - - . •. . . . • - . ·-- .· - . --~. . - . '- . . c . -
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,oovERNMEN'i''s »EM'.ANDs Fon .. suPPLEMENTARY ~in_-ADriiTroN.A.L _ 788. · . - - . GRANTS, 1927~28. -· - . . -
,: bj their offi~rs and soby- the 'doings of the police department also. . There· . : is no end to the dishoneskillegal and objectionable acts oft~ police d._e
'0<part_ment .. · --This affair is al~o an instance of a series of such . intemperate actB~ · ... ·- But the police has-always· been doing that. And though this is notthe fust · .-.
___ instance ,of its kind, _I would reciuec5t the honom"'able members ofthis Honse -~: ·to see that this is the last ofiti nature, and no:rnore oppoi:turii.tirn are given .. ,/'fo the police to spoilfhe "fair'name of. this., oountry: and. the-Qovermnent. :>;:_
· /('The honourable member from. .Lahore stated,cthat: he, did not oppose theJ< - - .'g~nt but. only 'Wanted to. bring the affafr'to the.-riotiqe of the Government~
: Th~ Jirsi; tfrin:g w.e shouJ.d do is: that we should express. - our . views .without _ __ : any com:rrni~l rancom in them.. · We can only repri:>sent:'and• .. translate the
:';' views, of the people outside .if we make a start from this House: -,lt is onr.: ·-. duty to_do so. ·It- has always been our duty, We ate the representatives · · of the people and not· their leaders, Leaders are quite, different from re-
. presentatives. They have to lead the people and often froin a wrong way· o:n,_ to a right one. But here we are only representatives of those views which
· our people possess about the system and fhe actions of the Government. ·obr ~uty lies only in-a ~aitbful interpretation of those views. We-and the
• - Government should all .try to wash away the dirty blot of this brutal dead. < It does not befit the Government, ifis not good fQr the Government, nay.it is - · ·
positively injurious to the Government to defend- the police 'in this dirty - -_ · aff~. If the Government wants to keep its name fair and free from all blot,
·u Government is willing to earn a -lasting sway over . 'our hearts, if the ·. Government wants to earn our loyalty and steadfast adherence-,it behoves : them to keep free of the heiaous deed, and to jein hands with us in openly _ and severely condetnbing the conduct of.the police force. - We do-not want ::tp oppose the Government 'Without rhyme or reasori: We have so many ::. actions. which we - contemplated taking. against the - Government but whi~h _ we have for the.·present deferred in' the hope that the. Governmentmleli
:: ;will-ccinie to our reseue.. . We .. do not want to defame. the Govenunent · ;;withou.t cause; · ·_we-are its well wishers. We want .t9 help it as fat asit is : possible; ioi' µa-to .do :so:. T tell Jou;iii _the words .of the poet -<~:~\-i. { ·KrNt~;;,'..:1~1~",~ttr~.'11,1,~ -a •• [ .• •• ·.~~~
.t: ::." But tge people _who-a.re the' cause 'of the Goveriuhent'a rum and its. dis· :\:gxace,'l}te thpw iiat_tete:rs and fawning sycophants, those officers or the Go/ern.~. S,mentwh_o-ooram.it such deeds or who countenance them. - Let menot keep '_any. secret.~,-LMYe :wiiili: :. me: _complaints to file against the officers of the .;,.".G~ti)Jrl@t wlilch Ihl}:ve withheld. , Not because I am afraid of the ·Govern-,
<t)nen:t o'.i: 0Litt1:Wli<ieti:!j:iJ:~i01;1 ~£Jhe· failure of the consequences of-my action, - ·-f-; hut. :t.>~y- becaliS~:lwa.Ji~d ·to giv& the Govemment time _ to -think and 'realise · < the -~~qwm.c~t of _iw ,a~tion,., : We sent telegrams to -the highest o:ffi.c& -. of
i' _ tlie '. G.Qvel'ilfn~:llrt, _ th~- head : otJhe Government -in- the province, bringnig" to ·, :_his.'no#ce/tlie _tyranny _1Jia'ctised- on ·us._· .And. though- we. 1·eeeived some.
_. ·. . -,_- ruiswer.~. frw:ri ,the -Chief Secretary ilfreply to our other points, we ha-ve-:-not "<}=-- ·/-:::, J:ieeµ Jayou-i:e'fl 'with.a reply oil"this'lil.ost yitarquestion of the safety arid sancti- -
·• '' /{If;ty of htiJnan.life, i.e~-; with refereii:ce-to.mercilessfilld illegal -bootmg of Khilafat : :: c'. : .. ,' :' volunteers and qthers. The Govetm:nent have not even tried to·_~sh our.tea.rs~
- .v.' :: < . ,., lrhey have, simply refused to take any nQtice of our complair; t. 'I;' therefore, again . . .. - . ~--- ." . . ~- . . . . . . . . . - . - . - :
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,( Ob the devastator of the garden, pluck all the fl?wer~ even tp tl,te laf!Jt i;,~t~, for to your good luok th{l gardeners are fighting aIQo~jhemse1ves~ :) ;
· The Gover;1mient is not at fault. A._s the Finli:p.o~ -1\(~mb~r bll;S iµfo~f;l - :~ tlley oply.look to tbe efficiency of the force. We now ~ow:wmi,t hf} m~ :by this efficiency. This does not include. the S~QQessfnl preve.:p;tion ~f cf.il\W, nor does it include the detection of. crimes but it only means the effective -an(l indiserimiua.te use of- danda. The Goverinnent, however, should t-epeq.1; -4~,q ah\:>w its regl'et for the pa.st and take steps" to prevent recurrence of sli~ .imident11 in the future. Otherwis& the results will be very unpalatable. · ~~ -ti~:nt would disgrace us - and themselves if they_ would support su~ unlawf)ll and highly tyrannical methods. ' · _ ·
Speakers on several other cuts have said that they have not _ uio~l3tl \h.o$e oµts in order to reduce the grant but only to raise a diseussion~d-~~
:tW!iw· t}w attention of the Government to the state ofaffa.irsthat exist in "the ·_ptovince to~day.· '.Uhe honourable member fot Lahore has also sail t~4 · same. Our intention, however, in moving this out· is riot only to raise a dis
·9~flioµ but to 'oa,~y it through. Our pa.Tty is : '1.0t se ~®'SQMP~ as to tpiwt tba.,t there is no needfor additional police in L&.h<>1:e. We think that more police is required for the place. We have not opposed th~ wb~le gta.Jtt but I am afraid, that the answer of the .Govemment, if ~tltla.t.isfactoey, will force Ins to do so. We do want the police. But we w~t it only to protect the~ .and property of the people and not for beating them _a~nseless. I s~ll, there f-0:re, press - this emendmsnt to_ vote to know - how ma.ny members in thl:$ House who hold the cause ario honour ()f tl.leir country dearer than t~it_ :~son.al motives or the good will of. the officers, _ This question is not the -eoneem of the Muhammadans alone, Sikhs, Hindus .and M~a.nmiadlUlS, ;all have tbefr prisoners under trial. Everybody has fo look to their safety~ .:My honourable friend -Cha.udhri Afzal Haq has given us a good account ot .their hurts- anti wounds. This question ofbeati:rig i;ion-violent people is no( ,of recent- oeenrrenee. It is at least four years old, · It rose. with the Congress '81Jld KhUa.fat agitations- and with the A:kali movement, We have tLlwa.,:lJ . to disobey laws which are .against the dictates of justic~.. :We nmst, therefore~ dooide to send only those members- tq_legi~latur~s who are· represent.fi,tive$ ~- the people and who ape prepared to ta.ke a b9ld acti@ in ~!tS& the Government, .sl,l~ws,~ny-acant regard for t}ie lives O~ J;ntµans. - This is a qu:estiOil on Whio'fi Hindus, M:nha.m:madans and· Sildls 11h.ould vote as- one, Th~y shpuld keep iii v:iew the higb'-handedness an_cf the brutaµty s4owJl by. the poliee. - W:e_19~ .not· agree to the recroi.tm~~t of ·suQh a police for(ie as iJI p~epa.red to at~k _ uniwited citizens and beaithe:Qi o~elly. If the Govern;inent is not willing to Bi.de with us ev~n after our very -wi~e and eonsiderate au~estfon a.n(
-.tefuses to take-any st~p, then it is te!'lponsibf~ for· the eonseqnenoes whic~ ~y · embana.as the Goveqilnent I\OO~essly~ . The lea.,st that we cai:i do ia t():'cany, this, one rupee out a.:nd express our 0011demnation of the action of -the p9lioe. · ·
~nd. o~a~r qqietly· ·stan,d by' watch ·t~e gan;t~ ~<f b~t. tij~m ·i.er-0~ij~ir:-~ . ·nee<3SSfll'Y~ ) (I.ID at~ one with the post=-the honourable member hf>J!l Lahore (01'. Sir Mubamm1;1,d IqbQl) ::- -- : _ ~ ,,,
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"r-:- .:, . uov"im~ME~T'S DEMANDS ~Olt SUPPLEIIENTA'itv AND AD~l!l~AI., __
GRANTS, 1927-28-.
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e.ikhMuhammad Ale.m~]
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' ';GOV'.ERNM:JilN'r's·n EMA.NI1B FOR 13UP"PL EJN!IN'tARY AND ADDJTIONAL 187 GRANT~, 1927-28.. , :.·.,•· c,L- .. ..
madebut there .. .ean beno.two opinions about this tha.t·there·are very:pote~ ·;reasOils for the agitation ancl that it, was the duty of the Khilafat Committee-
' to :disobey ·SJIOhJaws .. · But even taking for granted that the disobedie11c.~ of Jaws is. unjustjfiQd,. Lask wha.t justification e~ts fer the .action of· thee • police. . The- fl\cts ba.y~ already been enumerated by the: previous speake:rs.
:l, as;k _under thesa rfacts w:Uatjustification -exists for the drastic and 11igh}y illegal -sction taken ;by the .polioe. A batch of ten or. twelve. unarmed xolunteers g995 s.iro.ply to disobey a-law and not to· take any aggressive ru,tjol\ and if.,it ~as eonsidored proper. to disperse them you ..are quite. wel-,
'come .to .do so; but w1ty·on.ea.rth should you beat them,to the extent· that· ~y should lie down senseless. In this way. you do not disperse them, rather you make them unfit to move away from _that place, · _ .- .... Govommont has already.professed to act inthe name otlq.w and order, It i~ in the .name of the sam1:1Jaw and order. that to:day I form.ula.te Iey" ap~al to them that they should s~ppe>rt the amendment. .Law and order is ~c,:e.d
. to every Hindu, Muliaip.ma.da.n, Sikh,. Parsi and Christian. . It is the a.a~e :to ·a. .. Europe:m ~r an Indian. - But . the :r;esponaibility, of. the •.. Govon;i.m.ent Jor the maintenaace of Ia.w)md .. order is much greater then: any.-,, oUIN ab~vl;\ .. I. 8'd:mit tha.t'-dis.obedience. ofla.w isra.. crime, . B'Q.t -.do you. mean to ~Y' .~at 'on.lycivil disobedience of law 'is a crime and that. th~ cr,im~al, dj.s<>~rlie~~ is not? If the people have disobeyed the la.w in. t~ instance, it w:as _Q!)ly- a;
- .,ii-vii ,disobedi~<ie; -But, the, police -have criminally. and. violently- .disoboyed; _ -i!ith~ same. :Still the,Government .. have taJrnn.· no' ~tion ~gainst their own - ..
. ,l~~·~lio;·we:re.:g:uilty qfrthis. ····'11!m ·Gov~rnnient '.Booilld·' p&v:e arrested •and. - · ':', ptbsecute(Lthose officers; : iEven now· the,. Government · should· not eonsidec
:cauch-an,actiori_ too late; - There is-room fordifference-of opirriori ·a.bout<the jserio-u-sness,::of the situation •. But if the, Govemmen-t took no action ,-the people Mill,ooiiclude that. only the civil· and peaeeful disobedience of law is :an. offenee .~nd- tho;ulie:of violence in the disobedience therl'Yof:is not.. · The· , Goveniment should. .be large· hearted. ·They should not>be ·petty fogging. · They, - _'.should. -now. rele?,SO,,,the;:pni)OJienr,when they ba.ve• been -arrested .imd· punishedf -though I do not for:mufute any special request.Jor tha-t. · I ask the-honoursble ,the LegaJBememb:rancer~whois a member of- the: House, whether -there-is a1~.y
:(pto'\>:isfon .oLlaw>a.utho:rising -merciless beating· of batches- of ·io or ·12 'ua- 1;1,rtned;ivolimteers:rwho.-do not,warit to resist the officers -of-the Crown··in-ihe ,disch~ge 9f '.theil' dntiea,: but.who, only-want to disobey a ~rtam lsw- whi~i,, atl:(iordilig to thair.- faith, is ,their duty to disobey .. Is it-justified by an-y -eoda of law.or-morality that persons who have not even a· word to 'fling at·a deg and who ara 'prepared,' to --suffer a.n-y; hardship - should he' attacked a.Iifl ,d~perile.d .. by violenee; : You a:i;e per.fectly ,witbin~your· -rights -to_ us~ force nga.inst. those. ·,who. themselves ·make·use of it, But -irl' that case-evsn yw ICa.Il.Only USEtthe,minimuin force required for their.dispersal.~<A-:inan is-speak mg and· you do-mot wani him to .speak and- then. there- is a man who -wilints ,to . .stand1at,.-a; partioular.plaoe snd,you want him to·m~ve.o:g,_:tbe.oiily:,tmn;g :you.oon,do is.to bodily remove him.but.not to, beat,hiin-tilll·he-cannot mo.ve: ,from{that- place. at; .all; . This is exactly what. nas> been- <l[ori~ : bf ·~he poliee :0:(iioo.rs. cTliey ;. who, are 89 loud ,in- professing .that they:,a,re·:ghtirdbns '-T>f' poo~e.-a.nddaw_ and:.orde.r, ;hive ,themselves ,errea ·violently, ·Prg2.inst faw.nnd ,9J,'de7 e.:nd:; th&.t. tyo. ,crimiiudl_y~_ -, Doos Jh.o:c,G.o,&n1ii:n~iW~we.n~~ihe _i,eci'ph.f to mimmallydma., .violently. disobey ,filleir;;.J~~stemi.~f doin:g:the.-C pea~futlf't H they fail to take any action against their police officors, thoy are bound
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1Firo~;-u<l-Din Khan.]
. • . ;_,. ~ -~·-':·: .:.J_t;. -.>. ~- • :· .- '· t, . .- .;.. Of enquiry. It is used as a apecia-1 'additional, force fu the ~ity--ofLajl(ll'& · to·protect the lives and.properly of citizens in Lahore which tfie .cii1&initoulf events_ of the1ast few months have placed in jeopardy. . .
As regards the second part of the· honourable mem·oor'~ motion, he- ~if been somewhat vague as regards times and dates when volunteers, as, he aUaged-; were beaten and ·aispersod or arrested and I shall- have to go inttJ · thb matter in considerable detail so as to lay before the· Councilthe, occasions· on which it was necessary to use police force to disperse anybody and why
_ it · was necessiuy to use. this force . . . Dr.Shaikh Muba~d Alam: Ori a point of order; ~lr. We werW ,,
not allowed td discuss the circumstanc~s under whfoU section 14.t wits appfre& · to the city. "".' .. ' . . . . . - .. · / _· The Honourable.Stt Geoffrey deMontmorency: I am not d1S'cns~rn:li the circumstances under which section 144 was applied ti> thio/ eity.· · I
. propose only to discuss the circumstances in whic;h persons were' disJ>erse-d . by. the police; I understand tliatis the onui:i of the accusation agaimft'~i,; po1iee. -
Dr·. Shaikh Muhammad Al~m : We are discussing tile beating and n6U he dispersing. · · ·· ·
The ilonourabie Sir Geoffrey deMontmoreiicy :- I will .110Ldeal · "1ith the first occasion when the police were required to disperse a; crow,d by force, because it happened at a m·eeting whieh'was declared a9 ·lllµawful.. assembly by a magistrate, which was-held late at night by iafa[.Ali and which
- ha&_to_be dispersed by-tore~. "This meeting was heldbefore the order undel · section 144 was made.
. . D:t. Shaikh MuhatnJttad Alam : That relatiirto tlren1e&tin~rof tlW, . .. 2nd of May wlifoh is not in dispute at alt It is the nieetfog1lf of tlrc 4th an.a.
thereafter which are in dispute. · · .. The Honour.able_~U" Ce~ffrey del\fon,tm~rency ,: !tw~:, sA,c"?~
theafternoonofthe4th that, with the approval otGovernmen.t/th'e·D1s'lln(\t- • Magistrate .isaued . orders under section -144 prohibiting _. lll~eting~ in )iul>fi'e:
· places until the close of the Muh'armm: It was- made :clear tlia.f. tbi~, order· . was not to apply to the customary Muharrain'.' obaeivaric('s . arici the·: iltder ·
_was proclaimed throughout Lahore in. thti ea,tly pa'rt ~~~ .. tire•:, aft·~rnoo_u.. Immediately -after the order was· proclaimed, the, Khilafa:t · Coi;r:writt~ejn. Lahore !lent out some persons and announced· bybeat ,of drum that-_ a puhlfo. meeting would be held outside, the Del bi Gate in a public place.'.at ~-30 g. :M.
. . Dr. Shaikh Muh~lllllcJ Alna : That was before' the'j>ron1ulga:tfon ·<>f thll order. · · ' · ·
· . . The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmoren~Y.: -~b;_ rrh~_crlers _ .', inolp.tfed' 090 G1iulam: M,tlulmfuad who: wasc on tegistt!rr No/1:tl'n'!hi · ba'.dmash,. : and is. an accused in the Lahore riot cases. He• was airrtJSil~d'.-0: -(Arvoioo':. he js not a bsdmash thoughhe is an aeeuserl ; ,anoth~ voiee : he. was-a Khilafat;
• :ivoluntee:i;.; ~fa-.bad'mash at and~ fqt one}\ .· B'.f was' p~rliaps fne' first volnn-0
.·. teer .: The Distrlct'Magistia;t~·deeideif :tliat it 'Yow.a .be better toprev~nt, - t~it ~.eet'in~ ~!°.~ c~l~~Iig t~11Ii= ~o:: 9i~p~rse if PY: /orce,_if .~~l~J~:--:~
· emmently pfope1\de(l1s-10n. A lar~e force otpolice was assembled; of :wfilc.li · six const~bles only -wei·e employed ill ·moviiifon' tlie cr9wdg)>l:'peoplt~Jio, ··. came; _ :rhe· cnaiis, tables' and· famps whicfi had lieeti senfout for tlie_ meet'mg
oov:imJltiENT's pmt-nns rog; .sWPtlM:tnnxm · AND 1s1f . - ADDITIONAL GRAN'IB, 1927-28;.'. . .
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! I. l'lmJAB ItEGISLA OOUNOIL. l[j8jH J
_ 11 ~I~ Sir Geoffrey. deMo~~morency ] . :· i ! [ _ _
~e e a.ken away' by the p6lie'e:. Mea bile those who had ·s6tJ · s lllee ing ·On·f 't were present in the· Khifafa office and included tr·-:e 'h our bJ~ mo of this motion, whohadinten ed to, take the chair,'! u erst d, jif. .. _ u . course.. .. Discretion, Sp:, how 'Vet proved to h~ the bett ·pa. of val · , and;e. httle later the Khilafat-o ce aent out some mes eng . , chi fly
.--~ ·_i, ,p_oys,, say!n--g _ th- at t-h. e _- __ Delh_ i- G:a_ e Ih~- e .. t._i~g in a. pµ- ~-Ii~cf pl_-~_ ce ·was-off- ·, __ ~n ,,t at.a meeting, would take place 1 tead inside a big Pl"fV te _ : . b& pri e meeting began at about 10 PO \ about 4,000 people bein pres nt·~·
'Th h _nourable mover oft his resolutio presided. Violept:s eeeh , m tly~ -of : n 1·Governm6cnt ·nature; were ma e,.Jfabib-ul-Raqman disti uis ng hi se f in this line, while Ata UIIah Shah made a speeiali y of ndec nt_
.ab se with which Lwill not sully my lips .nor the ears of ,t s Co cil. l~ wa d eided in this meeting to send out ome batches of hmo tun vol n .. 't_ee s, o hoid meetings. The first ba ch ·g~t as fai: as! the gard . s -w ~n
.. the ~l'.e dispe-rsed-by _the _poI_~_ce~ S me iofjthis batct'_ ie_-\li ted nd ere
·.arr t . • . Th~ District Ma~strate an l th~ Deputy I ~ec~or:- nera . o_f Pol e an:1ved in the gardens Just as th sec~nd set of vol ~e;s w co ng -ou __ t . They were_ ~romptly de-clared a . unl_awf!Il. a~se~~I~ y .th .P_,ist i_ct M. . s rate and. dispersed by tµe po ice; i The D1strrqt_ M g~st te t _en
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_.·he __ :~_h::::1; __ f~_- -~-- :_i~0_ir_ ~~s~-h b_ee~?: cU::t_ 1r:~;::~ <t~ri_Jt~d~t- tf--~-a ·!h·g. the L bore Muslims were being subjec ed. i The honourable eve ow er cha _ - d his' tone ·on seeing the Distr ct Miagistrate (Ch~ud i - Af I H q : que - 'on}._ Th? ~omposition of the. eet-~g was car~fl]llf ind_i by- he_ De a y Commissioner, a large portio of which cQns1s~ed o bo , yo g me a d bazaar riff-raff. Subseqnently big meeting, withia lar eat nda ee, .at ch some very violent speeches ere .made, was held, o . th - ight of thE! 5 h at the Badshahi Mosque. T ere cw-as some tr~ubl in pers g
· the owd, that eventually emerged romithe mosquejalt e e of lie ,llle t' g; to their hom~s. 'I'hs sitnatio had' the greatest elem nts da er. Th - ~eiing ended: aJ 2._SO'"A.. M. Th more respectable pe ple d g ne ho' E). . - • ·. : : ·• - I I . :
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· .· Shaikh Muhammad Alam : What has this '.to do ;, It is qniteirrelevent. ! : ! :
- .e Honourable Sir· Geoffrey deMontmorenJy '.: As Is id, ii, - ~ority of the respectable part of he ~tidience had risp rsed nd O J
· l,500 ut of some 10,000 remained. T e hour was late, f"Dl ,he 1 , 00 t at rem ·· ed consisted of some of the m st rpw;dy elemenss I ~ La :The , ~e moved on and dispersed. A other meeting wa~ h~!1[in th_ -on t evening of the 7th. When this bro~e up, the cr~wds a,ga· bed ersed and some volunteers from mritsar were arrest~d. <. ~ Shaikh Muhamm~ Alan, ; ·sir, \on a point o(Jri. , is ~-. e ~,meetjng·a.Is~ relevant_? _: - 1- . _ . - . : -1.:-. r,·,.· _, ..
- :.,, 1 . 'e 'llo~ourable Sir Geoffrey d Morat111orency : _ A'ft ii th , the Distcict l\iagistr te Mund a. lal'ge aild'. e cite
3 P • in progress in the· otwali chauki iw1iic h .to
" · i>' ii d and was dispersed with som diiµculty by t~e :m, unt po · tl( 'constables. Now, Sir,itwill be bseJJved that the Dist ctM . istr e
onally present at mostr:of thes dispetsals. He '.has est· d, ·a -~ . . i . i
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•. oonRN_MENT'~ DEMAND~ FOR :BVPPLEM~N.2'ARY.AND 791; ADDJTIONAL' GR~TB; 1927~28. ~- ..
iip.ere is abundance of evidence to the same effooi, io the admirable _way in ·w-liich the policeforce was handled and to _the.restrained m13,nn,er in -wb.i~h :t}le.force, wfi~ <applied. In spite of. the fact that Tiathis had: to, be used; thezre'" ~v,e been no broken bones .and no admissions in hospitals._ As to the,neces-,
. ·sit!Y'. foi> using force to disperse these dangerous crowds late at night l think--: --t~ere .ean he no two opinions. - The results are eloquent of. the fact that th~ minimum amount of force was applied. · Government-has no hesitation. in~ -eoneluding that these excited assemblages at night wera -;fra'!Jght .-with-t~e, gr,eat~s:t danger to the citizens of- Lahore and had they not been.: dispersed'.
:we-should have seen. a recrudescence of the . outrages oUa_st May :which ar~~: n,nµa_ppily sofresh in our memories. (Hear, hear;)_ _ . ·, . ; · · ... ,. : - ,r,
., - Sir, I feell must comment on the part played· in this business by : the; mover of the motion. - For a member of this House, constitute<li by-statute, .
"t<>irilake laws, to take a lead in stirring up agitation to break them appears to-: .meso constitutea blot on the honour of this House; :_ (Hear;hear.) • - _ : i'
"· Mr. President: Order, order. I do not think :any'?tnember can raise a "charge ·of a personal character against another , nrember: of the::, -Oou.ncil incidentally. If he wants to do so he must move a direet and :iru.n .. ::
<stantive motion to that effect. (Hear, hear.) · _ .. · - · · - _ - , ·; 1
· ·The.Honourable Sir . Geoffrey deMontmorency :" - The conduct o(the~ organisation, .-of which· I believe the honourable, member- is . an -0rpament,~seeD1s to have been as pusillanimous as it was improper ....•• - :
Dr. Shaikh ·Muhammad Alam: Do I understand that by this ruling~ -that stateinent·of theHonourable Member against, my honourable ,. .friend; :i-s:withdr~wn ? · , : ._- ., · , , - v. _,:
.· , ·The Honourable·· Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: Sir) I-bow t-0: :the-·ruling of'the, chair; but ,I-'fe-el I may speak about . the : 'orga.nisa.t'i:ori; 'Fheyw:ere displaying that shabby merchandise civil disobedience. .-whfoh has been condemned on every platform, extremist and moderate, iri lridia;
·It,has brought trouble.and mourning to many homes, It bas. been cone - -demned on this occasion by" responsible opinion in- the1Pun:jab,.Jtuslim; El.iindu, and.Sikh. It.is. ri:ot often,' Sir, that I am .fortunate . · enough_ to di:nq;:
'.'S11pport for my views in the 'extreme Sikh papers. But on· this .occasion· .Iseannot refrain from quoting from an article in the Akafti of the 8th·Jaly~: A.rter ,remarking thl'tt Mussalmans have tried to clisohey ordsrs' and. held;
l\Oteetings in Lahore and some scores · of arrests have _ been made, the¢ :pitper:g~es on tp say;_:,~-~- _;, · _ · _ .. . . _ ., "' , . ,
._ : ... ".PcE1rhaps some Muhamma.ila;i!.s~ay be imprisoned for attempted civil dlsobedienee,':
: :~~es·lte~-~t!t:~~!!!:lf!t~;~ ~~e:\!~,eyM:6rene:~r!:n:t: jatha bandi are not-slifficient for success of civildisobedienoo.'1 · · ., · -. :· ~
The article ends: ··:,,. ,i, - -~ ' "Inl923 when.the ~ll:perfoncedleaders of the Sikhs were put fa [ailwe committed<
. a,.:mistak11 iif Bhai Phero Moro ha, which not only injured our oause ...... " . _ Dr. Shaikh · Mubarnwpad ·Ala• :>-Sir, is this relevant to the.qu~tfon
--0f beating '? · · · · · . ., ... ; ... : -- · ; ·Tlie Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency :
· ;·••The frl!lnds who aom,mitt.ed this mistake th~ught that they ·w~uld· ovetll<>me th6 .. ,- , Gov.ermuent. by ino.t.ea.sing the number of ,prisoners •. but. ala.s ~e .result. :was
=~atei::i \~ !r~~erii,wer~,~~461,l<l,on#;q. qfbAr lw;~ - ~:ie)QJl~.
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. · . . .PUN.t:AB L~ISLA'flVE CO~NOIL.
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weeks more: thlf laspea-ves. of tpese offensfre pamphlets; which iiow oeoul)y our_.thoughts, will ,be etts:t. out to their proper resti:lig places; the dust b~, a~~ ~tte~ of lndi~; but .even a hundred yem heaoe the document regatdin~ the treaty oi .Laua:anne to whicli I have referred will still be an import~ lan.dmark in t})e l);nna;ls of I-slam in the- History of the World. Have a litt~. patience, a little sense of proportion, a little trust, U the . principal .Muslina;
•-· loo.,d~rs found their eonfidenee in the Government not .misplaeed, in, . ,t}uJ"t · crisis; in those tjmes of seemingly insoluble problems and perplexities four
- years ago, cannot you also trust your local Government to see you t}urough 111: temporary and purely local difficulty? (Bear, Jtewr.) · · . .
. i.Ia, Mohan Lal .[North-East Towns · (Non-Muhammdan)," Th!banl . (Urdu):. Sir, fhad no wish to speak to-day on ·this question, but ~~or th~
. picture that has been drawn so nicely by my friends over there of the doings of the police, I.thought I 'may also add a few. words. to that. If there is any blaine it, lies against the Government. It quietly watches~ the two ram$i fighting: . If it were only to see that those who make these rams fight ;are ... : . taken fo task the-whole trouble will end. '.rhe poor people who are-notJ~e originators of these c6mrrii:ma1 troubles are goaded' on to . suffer the· oonse- · quenees while- the real men who incite remain safe. · :Those. who incite send forth volunteers to suffer and be beaten. I would certainly· be glad. to s~e those who incite them coming . forward. to suffer themselves. '. But the pity· is that when such worthies are arrested they apologise . and· secure their release and on the top of all. that, when it is published that they hav!'i ssenred · t~efr release. by. apologising_ they deny . the . statement ..... ·These ara the_p'eopla who create allthis mischief by their w.ritings and speeches~ ·· '.IJhey should he held primarily responsible. ' I do· not support the .action of th~, police. But· my friends who ·. make sueh · spirited · speeches snoulil · :realise their .own responsibility and should not siwrifioe others f:or tJ:ieir own .· ambition. They are leaders, they.should come forward-and bear th~-eon· sequences. · · . ,
Lieutitnant Sardar Sikander Hayat Khan : And be nnnibed -. . . Lala Me>han Lal (eoµtinued): Yes ... That is the only honest. way~
These gentlenre:q~ ofJlle Congress and the: Khilafat Committees should take• ilJ1 these. things in, their own hands and should not be. co~tent orily with: eipressing their 'pious. opinions, The Khilafat leaders by their. speeeba. issue fatwas against others, but when they see their words bringing fruit. in the shapf) of murders, they quietly sit a,t their homes .. · _ . . · .. .
Dr .. $haikl:LMuhammad Alam : . That is' how the Govenunent rulesL Lala ·. Mcihsit Lal ; As long as we are disunited and false to· enc,h <>th~i,
we cannot do anythin{(igainst the Government. We are hypocritiQS' tmd: f~lse in our . prq,fessions. ,And as soon as.-we spook .<tro\b and)lea.l .·.
· · ir~kly with . each· ot:trer,~ I. tell you that so nmoh police will not. be required. , .. Vfe ciea,te the mischief and we blame the-Government. Y-011 ar.e the persons ,wno .. deliver sueli . fiery speeches; and . make. people fight · like rams: . 'Why .
. sliowd ycru~not feaJise .your rei,ponsibility .. YG1,1 think ~hat.the leadersmv· · li~ ·only in e:x:citing people to violent action. Do you not re:mem~r'f-hat~ httPyened at. Lahore~ whe~ · iny honourable ftje~d from. Lahore- . · wantefcI .: tq·_ ~:tia!e a. iqoderat~ s~eeoh. · · He, :wa$· not. allo1Ved to proceed and was :ti0wled~_ ifhWA. ·. T.lie..rea~onjs- patent .. Yo_u.nr~t "'e~t. to ~;~ite_tfle i!lq~. :but w\&n·· you wantecf fo raasou 'and wanted to ask them to listen to moderation. they
- · OOV-ERmIJitN'J!'S DEMANDS.FOR SD'PPL:EMEN,11\RY.ANn·-Ail.J·DITIONAL 7~.- .· .••••....•.
0 =: GRANTS, 1927-"28; . . .
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PUNJAB . J,;EGISLATIVE OUN.OIL,
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(Cries of 'withdraw, withdraw).
Chaudhri Afzal Haq·: Sir, I withdraw. my worus because. it is. the -order of the President and not through fear of the Finance Member. _ ·,The -Government in the first instance kept themselves behind , the curtain and :pushed forward the Associated Press, Simla Branch, .witb. a false version
~ 1;p.·. be supported by themaelves, You may call me .a coward or anything -elss yon like. But there should be a limit to the mean acts on the ' part: ~ the Government who did,n~t even hesitate in degrading' a member, ~f :thiB,honourable.House in the eyes,of•.thepublic, by proit~ false .chargee .aga,inst ' bim, . Is it not jU!itiffeabl{! that the Jaws a aad or<{ers of such a ·Govemment be disobeyed "I I orily claim. to ·be humble a member _ of tllis .llouse, hut ·~ee,what he~veri and ~h they moveilt~ degrade me in: the eyes
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60VlillUi!1UilNT'S Dli:MA.NDS. FOR. SUPP1lEM:ENTA.:RY A.NO __ ,U>DITIONAL
GRANTS, 1927-28.
-,su,ch-a wrong w~uld at once have been made to-pay:this.with~life;' llbic;,ii n~l>ody .can be -sure, of iny liberty. The Gov(iriµrient ii§ bound to arr~st .lll& sooner or later,· and I: pray that the time may soon come when the wodd.
:~y .see, my head under the executio_rier's -axe. -But l assure my friends· . ~a,t: itthey show me - even· a- word. uttered· by me against my Hindu· p:iends .. :i,n. :that speech of-mine, they may hold me responsible. , ... \ ::· (A v9ice.: . :Wh~t about the cou~cil questions ~)~ .. - .. . ·: Sir,.: my fa.ult is that from the very beginning I have been· against, the·
-obeying of unlawful laws. You may call maunreasonable, but I have 41.ttered no word: against that large· h~arted ,gentleman who governsvthe -destimes':of thiS: province to-day; In fact! cleilcribeu him to be· very sympa·_
· thetio to the feelings of th1d.Iuhamma.dans.,. I only spoke against t.b;e Deputy _ ·C6mmissioner ·w'ho enraged the Muslims. You read the 'report of the pro-
. -~dings of tliat meeting. Yo,1 __ wilt find that even the.'~ Partap ".·described :my-speech to b~v~ry reasonable and strictly within the bounds of law. - :: - ·.·
·''.. · Now I will come to the question of. my. courage or botdness exhibited by_n..iy_conduct in that-meeting. It has been alleged that I changed my tone <0£ spee~~ on the 'arrival-of the Deputy Commissioner .. But, Sir, it is ameaa way of throwing mud arid degradinga member of this House in the eyes of the, world. This charge I submitis base and unfounded. Bead.the reports· ''Of the representatives of any. paper. The representatives of the Tribµne, the Civu and Mil, tar11 Gazette and the Associated Press were all there: They: ~11 congratulated 'me on my speech. Is it not then shameful on .the part: of 'the Government to trot out a baseless charge against me? If I had been )ure of justice horn the law courts of this Government I would have decided =to sue the Government for defamation and slander; \Vhat can be greater i)~ ,?;- and trickery on the part of the G overnment. , . · . . . ·
'' Mr. President : Order, order.' No' honourable member ' should =us_e offensive language in this House. I declare· the last expression used by .. :t4e honourable member te be offensive: and ask. him to withdraw it. · .. ' .(Cries ~f with.draw, withdraw). ' ' ' ' '
Cha~d'bri Afzal H~q: ·.lam not prepared to withdraw. . Mr~ President: Order, order .. The words trfokery awi ~4'+
... Behayai " vier~ used by the honourable member and r call upon liim to 'withdraw them. - · · · ·
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. :Mr. President: That. was not the ease, Tho objection :wa.s ·on:~, different point; tht is as to tho dates etc. · Tl::o honourable member n:utst
-remomber that there is no mention of dates in th.o motion. He mjgµt re- -eolleet that tho honourable member for Hosbiarpur mentioned two dates. No .. othor. 1nom9or l.i1;1d mon tionod any de,tes. .. . . . . r : . ••
Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam : I confess, Sir, that i do not remem .ber as to the exact portions to which I objected, but Ldo remember that I ob jected on no · loss than half a dozen" occasions.
Chaudhri Afzal Haq (Urdu): Sir, I m:o_st respeetfully submit that this 'statement- of the Honourable the Finance Member about the \rreaty
-<>f Lausanne is a question of life and death with Islam and those of us who ·~ork under an organisation, · ·
Mr. President! I am afraid, I cannot. If one honourable member of this House wes allowed to digress, it does not follow that others should also bu tJllo:w~ to digress;
. . Cb,~4hri Af~al a,q : I shall now .Q#)ae p:i.y speech and shall say nothing in connection with the beating because I am sure that they will ~pntl!r\µe beating.
Mr. President: Demand under consideration, motion moved- . _ :",, " l'h\t,,t tb,e total gr~nt IJ0 reduced by J:te, L," . · ·
'l'he question is that that motion be adopted. . .. The 'President after ascertaining tile sense ,of the House ~y voices. 4~plared
that the motipx:,. was lost. · ,, (Chandhri Mzai Haq claimed a division).
· Mr. President : The Chifu .has given a decision ~'1,t the "Noe~ };u~ye it " ~d tµat decision has been challenged. As lllany as challenge that deoision ~~y nse in. their places. . . . . . ..
. Chau~ ,Mzal H~qr .~ir, J did µ9t oha.Uenge your doo~ion but I ~ve ,P.lJ!iml3~ i~ under th~ ,:ul~s wmch ~y tlm,t yot~ she.it· be w,ken ;~y 4iviJi~~ ,if ,$'l}J :JIJ.~n:rber -~.o d-et1ir~s. . · · · . . . . · .
· ··11,. Presid•t: If, !11 the opinjon .of tµe Opajr,.~_divi.fsion .jJ3 claunf3,j·in ·~bµse of Qle aj~. of the Jiow.i,e, or _is uivPll)llSly d@IIW!d,Eld, h~ m~y ~ke ~e
. v~te of tpe ljpµs.e by ~~g µpl)n the llleJp.b~. who ITilppo:rt or wh:o cq* J~g~ -~ cl~i,&.ioA, to ~ suc.cf!ssively ,in ij),eir p,ac~ ~4 t4~~~p.9n he ~y ,4,~~:i:-e tp,e fl~t~tioµ o~ ·the !louse Qf ~»ow ~ di$i~.
Dr~ Shaikh Muh.amnaad Alam : On a point of order, Sir. · Cannot W'8 i~dependently of challenging tµat erder or th at decision of the Chair, 8S_k for 'a division ? . . I • . .
Mr. President: I.think I have not been able to make my"J!ositfon ~,-0lear;' I · deelszed" that "No.es " had jt. This decision of J:Wie was
-el:ia.llenge.d by some members of the. Bouse, In my opinion . they bJL<l ·. ehallengep 111y deeision fl'iv:dl(;msly. Therefore,, with a. view tq see wpe~her their challenge was fiil'9!Qus or _ :r,.ot, I. requested , the· :meipbere w}io
,~pported that ch~llenge to ri~e i~_thEtii place~. · · •- (-Oha.µd'hri Afzal H.11,{J rose a~a.m to speak,} · *~ f~~d~n• : J <lo J\(~i w!;lµt any JJ1ore ~-qs~!Wl qp th~t I>~t.
cq.py,in~~~NT'ELJ>.EMA~DS FOR SUPPLEM:ENTAB'Y. A~D A!)DITIONAL GlU.NTs4ij7.' . · · 1927-28. "---=-'
'
927.
·i-. !
,-· ,.··- '.
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE. 0
·',;..
~· That a. supplementary sum not exc~dk~~~.1(!5_b9,..gra.nted_to the -Punjab- -- - · ~erlimeiit-;(l\lliii.sti'y ¢- L.QCS,T ·- vermnent) to defray the. cl:utrges that
. . -'Will conte 1'ri do1U.'i!e of ~yinent for '.the year ending the 31st of March- 1928, in, respect. of. Medical and; ~b]W J!ea.l~;'' _
The motion was carried.
Tlie-Hb~ourable ::Ma:Jik~-Firoz Khan, Noon. (Minister for Loeak Self-Government) : Sir, I beg to move- : . ,
. ;- ·.,
The Honourable Malik Firoz ·Khan, Noon ~Minister for -Local Self ·Government}: Sir,Iam much obliged to the honourable member. for tq.~· appreciative manner in which he has referred to the interest that is being taken by Government in establishing panchayata in this province. I do not. -wish toin.ake. •ai long speech; but I feel that he will concede tlus much that Tam personally as keen about the success of panehayats as.he himself is; and the very fact that I have brought before the Council this demand by way of a supplementary grant, will show that ·I a~· anxious to . expedite-
, the matter of panchayats and not leave it to the budget session. I need, hardly say that I shall use alUhe zeal at my command (keeping in: view the success of panchayats) and do my best to appoint persons who are best fitted fot the job. I hope the honourable member will be satisfied with that statement. ··· · ·
-_. I\fr;; ,President : , T}ie q u.estio;1.ds=- . . i: "·' ... -:- , .1
. "That an·additionru sum not e~"Ceeding Rs.· 15;177 &'gm~ t(J:lne Punjab Govern ment (Ministry of Local Self-Government) to defray the-0~ that will · come, in course of payment for the year ending the .31st of March 1928, in respect of- Miscellaneous (Transferred)". - - ·
"/.:.'. The inotio~- -was carried." .......... · ·· -~ ·· . ...,: -.->-· -.-:-.:,· ·_;.·:::-·,:1·1; r:,_;.c.:r
-; ; .-:_-: EPVOA_TIO~';('J;RANfllfERRED). G1tAN:'.,i',. . ,,,•y
., .. The ~Honourabl~ Mr.-~ohar Lal -(Minister. for' Educatfon)_-: Sir~ lbegJo IIlOV&:-,- .· . . ; , ,
'' Tha.t· 11.- stipplemeiitary 'iiw:ii not 'exceeding_ Rs: 2,-00,000 be granted to 'tiiJ· Puiijd(b, . Government {Ministry of Eduoation),to defray the ohatges''that"will o6n'l:e 'fo ' 'C01ll'!!0 Of payment for the year ending the 31st of March 1928, in respect of
Education (~erred)." _ . The motion was carried,
about 75 panchayats. · But J regret to say that the Government prosecutecL o of the panehes under section 107 arid several others under section 110~ .The resnltris that that spirit has, been lost now. Youmay not like the-.
_Aikali iIeadsrs' in other respects, hut please invite .. the coipperation of these· gehtlilme:ri in this affair. Similarly, invite the co-operation of the Congress. and the Khila.fat leaders and make-them · pancha.yat officers and I assure- you. that ~-.this way alone•you,will·be,getting the sympathy and ·tlie support: 'of . the people. · The Government in other provinces even invited Gandhii ari.d Rajagopala<lba.ria.r .. If our Government wero, .to do, the same~thing
·here,;I _am· .sure-the Act will succeed beyondthe wildest expectations otthJI' Government. ·
. GOVEBNMEN'l''S DEMAND!! FOR 8UPP1/lilM~)'.ITTARY AND ADl>ITIONAL GRANTS i799·, 1927-28.
- ,.~
J~DUSTRlES
AGRICULT
IIMOarahle Sardar Jog• ir, I beg to mQv~
P-UNJAB LEGISLATIVE COt1Nc:iIL. [{~T I ; i . I 1
' I : I ' . 15;242 be granted ~ the
ment (Mini~ of Agricultw-e) to :y; t~ charges that will ome - of payme~t for the year ending the 1st f}f Ma.rch 1928, "in !fS
I
of blture " _. President : The question is- ; ! ,
''lllw,t an additiona.1 sum not exceeding • 15,~ be granted tb the anja. ve ment (Ministry of Agriculture) to d fray the charges t~t will c me inc nrse pll.yment for the year ending the 31 of Mt!,rcl!, 1928, in respect of • o ' "
. ~ar Habib Ulla .. [Lahore (Mu amina;dan), Rur~.J]j: ir, n,de. - and t · at the Honourable Minister has al eady deleted the #ern t . at I , ant ob to. Therefor~ I do not want t move my amEinq~eni . •
President : 'Phere is no questi of yom m9ving ;rourtme, men • e item ha-s been withdrawn, yo am~;ndment falls 111 to~. tl"p1.dl • 4 q9,estion i1:1- , · i : - " ~t IJ,Jl IJ,dditi~al sum not ex<J!leding • J5,242 be ~ ~~ the ia. "
• ment (~ of ~culture) to defray tlj.e cq.a.rges that willloome , - <Jf paymel)t for the year ending the 1st ol March 1928, i1' res of
ture." I I motion was carried. ' I 11 . . I .
I I i (lfinister fori to move- i / !
, I : ' That a. supplementary sum not ex . ·ng ~· 81,433 be !P1,ntell _o th Goveniinent CMinistrt of Educa.tio ) to defray the charges t t C!)llrle of pi.yment for the Y6!lr endi thti Slit of lfamh,l928. i res ~~;,·- ., . ii
: I : - I ~ . i ' That a supplementary sum n01, ex · Rs. 81,483 be ~ iJ, .. e
· ernment (Ministry of Education) to y the charges tmi:t Will ciome of payment for the Y6!J.r ending the let al Marchl928, in l'!illl · of In
dar Hahilb Ullah [Lahore (Mu amrh.adan), Rural]:' Sf, m notice of this amendmentt wa to, draw the ~tten~ion
hie Minister to the deplorable condition of the1 ta;nherie q~ · d4'cqsfilO!l i11 tli~ Industr] l : sub-committe_~ an aft . ·wen an assuranc,e oy th~ Hono able Minister tfii.at e is
h -the case and - will ve'ry soon do omethjng tfl ill!pr9v~_ t eta i eration of that assurance, I do ot wish to morel the ame n in my name. · !
President: The question is , ; I
' That a suppleme~ ll!Dn not e~ . c Re. 81.Q3 ~ ~- t Government (Yiilister:y of Eduoati ) to rdefray the ch&'*"8't t ·
· course °! .Jl!l'yment far thi;, year en . ttte 31st of ~~ rn · in · Indnatries. ! · · r- motion was carried. ! - ·
i .
.:·_ ~-·· ~
. ~~g~~~N~N'.t!'s nEM~N~~ct~~:;s~;i~;~~TA~~~A.~1:>· ADDITION AL SJ>_\
.· . M1soELJ:.~~Eous (REsERVF.n};GniNh' _ '. .. . The Hono~able· Sif.G~pftrey. deMontJDorency · (Fipance:Memfief)::
·1 b~ to moVEJ-- · -. · - · -. . - · :_,.-.} ' ·o ·•• Tha~ an addi!froJ,l.lll s~ i:iot ... · :e.;.~ding, ,Rs; : 500~ · be ', "gta.Jjte'd to tlie'. G~vern.or in
Coupcil . to defra,y the charges that will come in .course ·of paym_~nt fol' the_ yea.r. , ending the 3ls1i_ oUfurch 192& in respect of iMiscellaneous, (Reserved).'' . . ~' : Mi: Pi';id~ntrTh_~~\l_~tfolii~ ": . . - .. ,,,::-,~ - -·
. - . !' Th;;.ta1i11,dditi~~l_Bllni not .e~oeeding Bs, Q()O •.. begra.ntea:to_~l;ie Go~ernor in Council
. " i to defray the charg~thii.t wtn come in course" of pa.yzneilt for tlhe year ending . . •i the 31st of MarohJ928 ~n.~t"of ~neouslteileived).:': -.
,~:-:;<_)._lA,la Mohan I.:al[No!tli i~a~t Towns(Non~Mu_h~~idan} Urb_a,IiJ:. ··.· Sir rI:npte thattfus sum isin connection withthe travelling allowance of the ...
. : "Boaid;of·Filzj Oensors.. I -object to -this"item on-one ground and that is· ·.. ·ttt~·_acti"vitiea·.oJ.ci:p.eJit~tograpg.filnis t_h!!,t hav_e.be.eri.in9:w, issu.ed, Jtnd .one
. <i,cJ· ~i~ially-wliich iac~UtJd, tlleSfricklaµli jitm which has been·exhibit"ed·intlw ':a ittf"Ni~'aj:(lgaFLodge .. Sifti:~11 th1t,t J want t-0 -say is that we are: paving enough
---:··: : ofr .Erindu~Mus.lim: and· Agri~ultllri!ot~non:agrictiltutjsV i~1;1sfon • in thf pro-
- ..'; · .. }}:;;;·::t:i;t:;:\:~·.t!t~i~~:::t~g.;;:;-jc:,t~~::r~tru::p::t· fr}--)~;_-' :Na~itll is a d(tbtor ... :rrh,e .debt i_s:,01: Rs,~SOO- antl":~y~ adding yariOU!J sums ~. ::~-· >: .. jt comes to _Rs. 90Q: . The" .totafthen;comes to '.Rs; 2;500 'and: Mula is said
• .. ~"'.)}}J9_ he· a bloo4-suckm{:' 'AU.that"T w4i;uttoj~y n3Jli_11:t here-ier a dePa,rtfoen.t. - :::""'.-; :~':··. pf~-Gover11Illen.t·.· :w}.tich 'ta:kes·pride ·in creating·,moie _ill·feel:ing-•among -us.
- • - <, I "submit,. -Sir, that Government should Ja;k.e cea,i,J.y, steps .to Sefl that: this ·. :{\;\1ilµt Js .inot • e~b{ted. Th~. co--operative depai:tment- has .ev!3l"y ,right• t0-_.
1 · · . :· )~ei~'<?,ii)t~,},i:opp,g~nda; eA~ it, s!"i,~aj:4: do ~o in. a5h~aJtliy.,:anf:'Pf-Oper way ~ .··. . ,md 11ot by mJ!lrmg the feelipgs·of others and crootmg ti:oµble~.- .Last year -
..... ' _ -Ohauq.hri Ram Singh attended 'one of the meetings_ of the: co-operative "?t,:\i\sooieties in which songs \vere ~liJ?.g and ·poems _r.ecited which w-ciul.d-have
··:)·;~~r.:eated,bad feelings 11mongst s·om.e:_of those preaent/_ Thiss·ort Qf _propaganda.· · -.··}/ · should be stopped. Ii t~ ·depa.rt¢erit wa.nts to" carry. _ oh Brbpagan<ia ~:.
t;~I:
J . ;_,~
, .-j .• -1 · .. ·1 . .-·_
·-1 ·::~~
·,
.?
.·· ._.
_-:-1 l - l
I
i I I I
J!>UfqJAB LEGISLATI COUNCIL. ] l~T - 19 7.
l i ' I ' prosperous by e°tp~b
I ! -. s is - however _ a .side issue. So far [as · the grant ! is: c
... to serve the very purpose whi h the honourablj, me . . . rop~r kind of films iar pas o
.---• •- I~ - · · the honourable member can hav no pbjeotion to th~ g nti ·. ~~Ill . ; .. w~~h ~s goin~/~ serve th~ ~ry urpr s~ which he lhts.: in
. • !'resident . __ '.IJh.e". question - - 1
r - . . I 1 -- , .· <' That an e.d<Jitional sum not exeeedin . Rs/ 500 be gran teil tio t e G ~iernor in . Oounotl-to defray the charges th t wiUi come in COUrt!~ o~ . . yme l for t ~
· · year ending, the 31st of Maroh 19 8 in ilespect of Miscella.neo s ( R rved).' e motion was -earried, ! · l ! ·
. President : Before the next ema.hd is moved Ir !wi h to use on one point. There is vefy · ttl~ of Governm~nt usin w:~ig::k:.n:r:~th:ov:!:en . b:t~~ e~:e itt~ s ::at_
ertt motioij. : · · ' · ·1 !
· e - Council agl'eed to. this propos I I . . , - I ' I I
_ C1yiL WORKS (TRANS B.Ef>)_.GRA_NT .; .I i _, e: Honourable- Sardar Joie a- $1qh (Minirt4r - for
:, Sir;: I beg to move--, · - -~ i - - · · I ·. - ;, That O:n ad'ditio~l sum ·not ~exceedfu Rs.1 s.~lJ,800 be gr nted 'to t
Government (Ministry of ~rionl ) iio defray the oh~rgee· that cc>' el . , , _ ~ course ofipayment for the ye r endµig:the 3tst of Ma~h 1928 · '0res
_ _ of Civil Works (Transferred)". , _-:.. . :-·· ·--· - ···. ':' -· ·1-
0--motion was, ~rried. -_ . ,
· ,, ) :,-" That the Sikh Gurda.w~ra.s(Am~~ent) :Bill llepa!!Sed." · · The -motion :vva.s carried. ,,/yr
THFJ SIKH GURD.WARAS (AMENDlfJilNT) ~~LL.
Mr. President..: The question -is..,.... , ,; That the title and the preamble s~and pa.rt of the Bill:" .. i
"Ilhe motion was carried. : :Tb~ · lfon6urable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : . S~r, · i beg to move : --•.··
: TlIE PUNJAB MUNICIPAL .(E:X:ECUTTVE OFFICER) BIBL. -- . . .. l'he Honomable Malik Fit~ 'Khan, 'Noon·. (Minister.· for Looal
· :&lHfove1nment): Sir, I beg«? move :- .. . . . . <"Chat leave be granted to Introduce the Punja.b Municipal (Exeouiiv~ Officer) .Bill''
·sr, Mr. President: The question is- " That leave be granted toi:nti:oduce the Punjab Municipal(Executi~e ()ftlcer) Bill."·.,.__.
. .. -Dr. Shaikh MuhammaclAlam[West Punjab Tovvns (Muhammadan}. Urban] : Sir, I find in the statement of Objects and Reasons attached to -this Bill=- '
·,;The administration of a lar.ge municipality .in. vol.·ves. th. e supervision o(a. larg. e sta.1 .• 1 _ the enforcement pf many provisions _of .the Punjab_ Municipal Act, 19ll, an<1 -0£ rules and bye-la'!'VB made thereunder and personal inspection of all parts of.a large area. The work i11 mqre than .a.n unsalaried-. President with a. private profession can ha expected t.o perform,- whil~_.the powers, that can 90 ~I~ to a Secretary are.nob. suffil)1ent to enab1e bun to carry out these duties e&tis· faotorily, This .Bill, therefore, . provides for· a who,le-tii:ri.e salaried Executiv1r Officer with ample st11-tii.tory powers to perform the duties for which a Presi dent cannot. find time and a Secretary does not possess suff.loierit poweriL While, however, the Exeeutiy" power, fqr the purpose of cll-rrying out.~l;te. pro; visions of the Punjab Municipal Act, 1911, will vest solely in thE) Exllilutiv.~ Officer, the munioipal.nomtnittee will continue 'to perform all those · funotioria' which a body air opposedto'an individual.is best suitedte perform·. the power
.. of taxation, .of. .~king. Iiye-Iaws,. of dicta.ting p11lin jp. general will remain "irith the committee, liut ~he d~y of -assessing and oollectdng taxation, of enf<lroirig
. byeslaws. and putting into .fixMution the policy ~ppro'1'ed by the comllJittee will . ,. be imposed upon the ll_xecutive Officer. _ • · · · _ ·· ·
,; •<,This is the system. of)du.niQipa.f administra.tion~wmc~ il,X~OO in other~ ~ . . . .... ·To.ilia. and in other oomit~ hru! shown to_ be th~ oest for t{ie> la.rge muliioiJ.lll,1i·
• · ties, -lllld the BiW in .. principle 1s based w tlie .Ci1y ,WBoinba.Ya.rid the Madiai '/:· Oity Acts. ' 0 , .- : . ·. .· - . ~ - ' ' - .:. '. . • ~ • • • -- -
·. · NJw; Sir,'what is th~.fut~tion of_this.BiU?'~nhe/obje~--ol tms··Bill is -t'o_ .tak~ .. a.'Ya.y 'the assessirtg _pow.~r from: tha· I11lmjoiparcoirimittee - alto~ gather. a.s stated in the objects and' reasori~ ·:"Which .. t. re!lid j]lst now. Agafu\. Sii~···althotighi ·th~· POACY and hmiriK'-·of.\bye-laws· rests with .. the municipal committeEJ, carrying >out of . t}iose· -policfos and
. ~lf\ those ; ;contracts. , ~mad~ ·t~r:eunder goes do. tluf ~x.ee.1itive'. )>ffioo.r~ --~ii~ we-·seeJhat a.sa mat,ter.of:jacfr~he muuioipal.conm;iitt·ea-·tsaltogathei :hampeted.':in"-tlrsexerciise of u;~:.ppwers in 'practice; .Ityou:leava the,-assess-; nie~t-io--the 'a~ecutive officer'a.nd if;you alsoIeave tha ciar:rying out of tfie .
·oontnicts to him; then I submit, t~t most of .the work:is left ,to too exooutive . -<>ffioor ancl-\hif p9weril that will.be left to the oornmitte-~:·will be tea.Uy only
·t!lohniQaLa~dJ n.9t 0£ a.ny.pra.oticl}lva,lua l\t a.IL Thia is reallj a.hindtanca.or .·· ~th~tJ:'.\\1'0.ti~<fc~ay_ obsta1Jle)q'\t~r exercise of .se'lfZgoverniri.~-: ~9~i:Jrs'-9_f ~he ·
, m11rii¢i!)}}L -, · oommitwas .. - - ; It··; in~?',!, ·~·:·that·. wliat ' · ·ha.~ . b~a.1f:gi-vt1µ _c-t_o lmmt .•Jtoq.fos willre&ll.y be·takan:a:\'\':.\Ji_b-y'the~.m>oi~tmcentof:.thasa 0~('1ltiveoffice~.
• wlien:-~he app0intm1n:it lies_,wjth the {h}vernment~ < >, <:: >);":: ;:' .. · _ G2
Honourable Malik F'aroz - • Shaikh Muhammad Alam
_ ~ ister suggests that it does no lies the Government so far as ap wou d 'sybt:nit that it_really lies with th
- PUNJAB LEGISLATIV
i : I i
.· . . .
. : Bo, further-debate is not in order at this stage..
,-
PUNJA'B MUNIOIPAL (EXECUTIVE ;?FFIClEB) _ 1'ILL,.
-@le charge. that the,Government was-going to appoint th~ exooutive._officer~ - As :a matter of _ f.act _ what the Bill provides fbr fa this ; that the -municipa_l ::Coomnittetfis bem~-given tlie pQwer to appoint itifown executive Qffi~r and\ - to. dismiss its own executive 'offlcer. This couisi3 .is being taken not, only in::<
_ . _,__,~hQre,,i>utithas ,already been taken in alLthe important,cities-.in -this - - -f.:c,, ,c9witry: _'-That i£-the system which exists in Oaleatta; 'that is the sy~tell'.l-
-whi-0h exists i_n Maqras ; that is the system which exists in Bombay; - __ U tµe . ,~d:vanced people Qf .those provinces felt that an 'executive,-offi.cer:for large __ cities was necessary, I think that we also shoulctcoru,nd~r t~t matter, serious•-
- JyJor the_ a,ake of out- province. _ I do not wish to go .into the detaµs of the - - -13ilFat this -mOIIlaht; -Those--: details .will be: thrashed, out in tlie _ select _
-comu:tittee· and ifjhei:e are· any changes whicl;tJ:ion9urable xµeinbeis"wi~l{to . , bring about here and-there, they can do so in-the select-committee ·or in the··--:
-Conacilwhen the Bill:eomes·upfor- consideration>-The question that"has to:.' .be considered. now is whether the principle- that' there should be ari~ executive- - ,:officer is a sound oneornot .. · I will just tell ~htl'honourable members why
\-an executive officer- is needed for the municipal committee;· There are eer " <tain 'provisions ofcthe Municipal .Act which involve infliction of punishments- -
i,oi' which n.ec~ssitate the President to eariy out duties vvhfoh are unpleasaint. _- The members who are elected by the voters and wbo depend on their_ vote:t;s - · Jor their own success cannot act independently. ·Simila~lytheJ'residentwho .
. -i~ elected by. the 'members every three j-ears has certainly to have a; regard for their feelings. '.I'hose duties which are unpleasant eannob be carried out
- ,properly by the President and moreover - in most of the _ municipalities we <find that the. work is in. arrears and. the reason -for that is that the gentlemen - \who do that work are honorary workers and f9r tqe-best part of the day they -do their own work and the spare time they devote to the municipal adminis:
· tration, That .is the reason why the need bas been felt for the appointment -of the executive officer. At this stage all that .I. would put to the Council .is the-question whether the principle that the executive officer is needed is a. .sound one or not.. 'Phe details to which- my _honourable friend ha~ re-
- .ferred can be dealt with later on and if there are-any provisions which be or .any other honourable· members does n.iJt .1\'ant to be .ineorporated in the Bill, I shall certainly beprepared to consider them very favorirablyinthe light of
- ,the wishes of• the House. I: do 11ot want now to go -into such details~as corrup~ . ,tion and such other mattersand thus waste the time of the House. _I think · ,that this is a very sal;1tory legislatio11 and· i] very badly needed for the- ad-:
- - Jninistration of our municipalities. In order to establish a healthf adminis;.; .tration in out municipa1ities' 1 think an ,e-xecutiv~ officer is certamly_ very -
.. necessary. - - - --
-_ '(Sardar. HarbakbshSingh rose-to spe_ak.)-- -
_ -~ . _ Mr~ Presid~t· : The horiourable 'member: Js oew:;:to the Collllcil: ·~therefore,,l __ would invite_hfa~attention .to Staxiding Order. -_88-:which run•,:. -
.;as follQ_WS :· ,:, , <]'. t , : - "If a motion ·for leave- to introduce a. Bill is opposed/ the PI-esiden~a.fter permitting/
if he thinks fit, a brief explanatory sta.tement lrom the m~mber who move, - - - 1!,nd from tlie meinb_e1; wh9 opJIOfle!3 the motion; may put the questiQil without· - · further debate.." · · _ - _ - - . ; · , ·· · - _ - -
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Mr._Din Muhammad, Laia Kesho Ram, Sekhri, Sardar Ujjal Singh, Sardar Mohindar Singh, Lala Mohan Lal, Rana Firoz~ud-l>in Khan, an
. -the mover/'
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COUNCIL. l'UNJAB LEGISLAT
dar Harbakhsh Singh : I d not want to debate n t ''mg to say something else. asopposing the iijit~o uctio ·a point of' convenience. · ·. 1 i
__ ... President! .Ord~r, order. Only one mem~er! an s . PPP '. . on and that h~vmg been done n w t~e question has fo be p - fHl~ ti Ii~ :-,- - . - ' ! ' - .
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i• That leave be granted to introduce the Punjab Municipal (EX:ec~ti e Offic r) • · • . • i I e motion was carried. : i !
.e Honourab·~· Malik Firoz lum, Noon : I be to trocl ce, .. jab-:t\fonicipal (Executive Office Bill. • i i -
- . e Jlonoµrab11' Malik Firoz ~ Noon : I !bc:tg - • ,J. - - - _- .··· - - . . - I '
.. i• That the Pil!1jah Municipal (Executiv OffiJer J Bill be referred ~o • _ . _oonsisti~ of the following :- · i
I • Nomi11..ee of the Honourable th President, '. - I
- Seoretacy, '.fr",nsfe~d Departm nts, j
Secretary, · Legislative Depart nt, !
Rai Sahib -Chaudhri Chhotu R m, j
Diwan Bahadue Raja Karen Malik NaJ.ab l\fejor Talib l\Ieh · Khjm, Lieut. Sadar Sikandar Hayat ~ 14 Sardar Habib Ullah,
. ': r ~1'1,E c.ouRT fJ\'!.~: (P_UJ-J:J4a uENDMEN1rtsmt. B<¥r thiaBill seeks to. cover. B~t so far as J &ID awa.re;:~the re,port oi t~eCivil - Jt:tstjc.i_e 9o~W~e 4iq ,JJ;Qt :m,a~f:) ll,DY special J;~fr.ire~<lf:l; W the: oon,l,itiQ~ '\YluO}L . Pf~v'ail ~ thi_s pl,'o~llJi_fi,}9.r d.id they s~y tha,t :auoh : Inn.fhJ. &t · ~volQ:IJ.a: -~
.s~ts wet~: yecy~-r~pa,~t ,4t . t!ie . vroyiJ:ll}e,:' lf91~cr-~r,, if js :~?: : ~pv~e~t tllat legi~lation Qf th,111 ku.id on tl;w reoo:qi.yi~:tid~~Qn Qi: tM Cwil _ .J ~t1<,~ ,C~nn:n;ijtte-e . b.as ~ot. b.een 1mdetj;aken t,;l ~Y-9til~r. · Pm~~e ' o.f IJJ.di9.i : : ~~· .t4er~ are· -no. special l,'Ell!,SQi;J,S wlzy this pro$~~ $.~aj.~ ]Eli~ fl, l~.94 - m t_~_sniatt~r., .: ~ere)s•a-v~riii.trang. reason,! ~J:i~4- suJ,qµt; wb.yt4iti/ -B.A}_sµ~mM ~9t Qej~µ-Mucect~nd~eri~~-tad-µito- law,~<Ht_:_:i~·: ~}µa; ~4taj;~ it ~ wID be productive,~£ .-n:iijil J11i:J:dti4ip_··t9 t}?.e ·~c;,C>reI: ~~-s J>l .. tll~ ·. p!lgpl~.,·:c (H ear, hear). It is a Bill imposing a_ bu~dep i qi43-uicid.eµ~~ - Qj ~Wch f~ - principaj1y and prim,arily . op tl\e--'poqrEµ" ~la,,ss~. :,~It is "'~µ lcH,<>yn that· judgmenforeditors proceed .. n9t only : against the.ix- ju,'1~Elijk.de,htors ·but are sometimes tempted · also po_ proceed p,g~t. the p:rqp~l'ties,· of thefr relations n,nd other. person:s · eonneoted with :the jud"gment~d13btors _ on the allegation that the pt_operlies )Vhio~ they see~to attaop. b~long fu_.their::. judmnent-:debtors~ : .::~· ::. . . - .: ,· .. - . . :. . ' = . .. '-,=.~
.: · Under such eiroumatances these poor people are driven to court Ill order· - to est_ablisbtb.~ir rights with· r~~:peot to p:rp.per,tjes w~h a,re Wf<mgly applied
. against by· thejudgment-creditq.fB. It ur pnly fait' tijat JneiJe poor .people should JJ~ given-a chance to have their rights established at lawon easyte~s. _ without being called upon to pay an amount of court-fee wmch in 'certain - cases would prove- to be really. prohibitive and the levying of -whioh wonld. be- tantemount to :a denial ofjustice to these po.or people. I would make o:g~ ;l'@r~ reip:ar~ 11,t tms ~t~g~ Bir, ~~d it:is t¥s: thll,t tq~ wl\<?Je qftµe Qourt Fees A_ct is a:11 anamolous _:measure. . . . . , _ . " : - _
. Mr. President : Or@t,9.i:4~-- Th!l!t qu0fltiqij ifnot betoi:e the Rowie~ T4e. ~P~Olll;~"ble ~emb.er._µ AQrefols Jo-st~P.du:l& Qr4~r.-?.8, "'m .see th.at at tius· stage only a brief explanatory statement is peim.isaible. aild not a long- speech. . . .
Mr.1.abh Singh: Sir, I have no desir~ tq-make ~l():qg speech, 1- oi:µy referred to the Court 'Fees Act as it is lqoketf:upcn!>Iiow as a revenue, producing measure. ·.• Thi,sisin pririojple vn,:i)pg".AA4 ~we s}lpi;µflµ9t promote any furtherA,,.xJension of this wrong - principle. We should not allow the Government to tax our people in the guise ofleyyiµg cow.t-fe.e~, or to tax:: justice as it is called. We emphatio~_y claim that justice should not .be sold. That is the primary principle !Qr "7'hioh we are stan,<fui_g up; . Mfl, if justioe is to be sold a~ a)l, it should be sold _o4ea:r., l s11:bµiit tµa,t to a,~~w ~hiE! pill to be ep.acted11.1to law would ~e ~ ll!l'oaq pp. t~~t wholesome PnR-~rnle :md should not be permitted. le tlrnrefor~ forlilttP,y P.P.:PP~e, ~ir ; tb,.e :i:p.QtiQ~ f.q;i ~ leave to introduoEdhe Court Fees (Punjab .i\rgendmen,t).Bill~ · ·.
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- _ . Th~ JJ9npw.~l;,le ~j:r G~'o.ffr~y ,J.eMo .. ~•~r,P.cr (F~!!J}Ce ijeqi-ber) : Sir~ f1Jhould ~.e.to·!:l-xplfl:ill"~h.e po.iiition of the Go,vernmeµt ~.•regards._this _·· Bill. · Tha Civil.Just.ice Co:mnrittee made certain teconunendations as reg~rds
. this, measure. '.Ilheir .. reobmtnendations .. were c referred .. to . : the- <High · Court who,took the opinions of Judicial Officer~ arid reported·to: Govern·
me.pt tpat tµere is ~ gener1~,J-~:µseI1Sµs. offee.li!J,~ ~~<>ng jµdi~faj 91:licers· that ttw ~ill.- Wl}fJ r~qu-w~i.l tq' stqp 'mmeeess~. and . Vf!J3'tigqs litigf!tion. . . The object of Government in introducing this Bili-is nof fJ.scalin any way. ~at is,. it does not wish by the provisions of this bill to :r_~ii!e :re#eriue. · That ia
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. ORDERS.I i H. D. Craik (Chief Secretary : Sif, I beg to pre~ t th elect Committee appointed to onsiuer the dra.f~ a;m ndm Orders of the Punjab Legislat iv Council. JI. 'D. Craik -: Sir, I beg to ove : t the report of the Select Committee a.pp inted to consider the .
- ; of Standing Orders to the Punjab Le islative Council be take~ 'tion.>' - i : .
e motion was carried. . . I President : ~ }]]he question is : . I I
t in the third column of Schedule I of the ~anding Orders ag in st i em - · _ "Finance," for: the figure " 3" the gnre 1 " 4 ", in the fo~h c lumn or th
figure "8", the figure "9 " and in th filth column for the figure ' 12 " -- "14" ehaU be ~bstitut.ed.'~ _ · · ! otion was carried.
Pl>·• it lloo(lrey;:t:::;~;v• oouxcn; . [i1 J .
t 1 s se. Its purpose is that if i is really true that thi{kin ;~0 e/ :edd:!:ntr~the:!in~.ants
0e11i!:::;~u:til~ o ~~ s; ill wouldJQ6k),t the next moti n, they would find thr,t if .~ .11 el~ven1amotion woul? be mo ed for the circula~ion qf.the
lioi opmion thereol'.l. That is, the vernment has not finally ~lis , as regards the desirability of t s Bill and if after :eliciting_ i~ is f d that there is a substantial bod Of_general opinion agJinst
, ro - · - c ,_then Gove:rnxnent would not pr oeed with the Bill. ' .-_. . ._- _----A. I' i i .
• -Presidttnt : - The question is : , 1
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! _That leave be gra,Ilted to introduce the urt Fees (Punjab Amenllro nt) B motion was lost. ,-- j :
_ a, dit~~anak Cb._and. claimed a~_di _ s1Q, .. The Pres~dent th~ e hers who QhaUenged his deoisi n tq stand in theii'. . aces
o . "e bars.having stood up, the Presi ent jdeola11ed tha~ tµe divi laim d frivolously. -~ J !
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THE PUNJAB TENANC (AMENDMENT) ~I L . . C. F. Strickland (Registr r, Cb-operative !soci -ties):
beg to move :- ' .That leave be gra,$,d. to Insrodnee the jab rrel).ancy (Amendm~nt . Bill.' _
motion was carried. 1 I i C. F. Strickland : : I beg t introduce the funjab T ent) Bill. - · i '
- C. F. Strickland : I beg to ove :- 1 i t the Punjab Tenancy (Amendment) Bill. be _l'l)ferred to a Silleot G<>1nmitt.iee con
sisting of the following :- . i i j I The Honourable the Minister for Agricul ure, I 1
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_ Diwan Bahadur Raja Na.rendm,Nath, 1! • Chaudhri Zaffarullah Khan,
Nominee of. the Honourable Presiden ' i I ! Secretary to. Government, Punjab, tive. Department, j i · The Honourable the Revenue Member, nd i
the Mover." 1
motio» was earried.
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Sir, at this time of the day, when all members are tired I do no.t want - - to - detain- the_ House for a long time; . Moreover-experience of the debate on the cut on the .additional police and "the statement by the Honourable
-· the Finance Member that information with respect to the Multan riots is - not complete compel me not to enter .into the. details or the incidents of tlie Multan riots. I hope that those honourable members who will. follow me in the discussion of this motion will try.to keep clear of_ introducing or of bringing in communal fire in the discussion -. I submit, ,Sir, that if those who follow .me introduce. bitterness and heat in the discussion of a motion -of this .type.they would be really 'harming morethan helping the. solution of the problem which we are all anxious to sclvo. Personally I would confine - myself with respoot to the Multan riot.with the remarks that those of us who nave . closely st tidied.· the- information available so far . do appreciate -the wise and prompt action taken by Government at the . crisis. . Moreover, I feel this House will agree with me in condemning thoseresponsiple un both sides -Jlinduo:r Muhammadan,-for creating mischief betweenthe.two oomrnunities,': .and lthink we all equally sympathise with those who have suffered bereave ment in these riots.
To my mind what is more important than the Multan riots themselves -is the second part.of my motion, that isto devise measures to check the recurrence _of sueh riotJ!. . As my. honourable friend from· J nllundur p·ointed out thissmorningthis seems to be-t he beginning ofa second cycle of communal
- - riots. and I think the 'Couneil and the Government owe it to the province and the country at large to concentrate on how to check the recurrence of such riots .. And I mean to confine my remarks to that end. -, My honourable - :friend from Sialkot in a very able speech this morning analysed what appeared to him to be the root cause Qf communal t(jnsion. I wilHake up the line
·-of argument where he}eft it. Iagree with him so far that prior to 1919 there was not.thisunfortunate acute phase in the communal feeling of the piovince •. What happened then_ was, as . he rightly suggested, that a unity or at least the wish. of a unity was expressed on paper, but real unity was not ,established. At that time the Reforms scheme came, and in the words of the .aushors of the Montagu-Ohelmsford reform, the reforms were meant to awaken
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- MO'.IJION _ FOR ·. ADJOURNMENT. Mir Maqbool Mahmood [Amritsar (Muham.niadan) Rural J : Sir, I
beg to move :- - " That the House do adjourn for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent
public importance, to wit, the recent communal riot at Multan and to. check th1i recurrence of such riots." ·
- Pre11.ide-.t : · illhe question is ;- " ',I'hat after Standing Order No.. 76, the following new Standing Oidet shall be added
n,amely-. ·- - - " 77. - The President may by order in, writing delegate .to _ the - ])eputy Pre!!ident .. -._-. - alloranyofhispowersunder these Standing Orders and may revoke any
- such delegabions," -
· The motion was carried. Mr~ H. D. Craik : Sir, I beg to move :-,----
" That the draft amendments of Standing Orders be approved."
The motion was carried.
-AMENDMENT. OF STANDING ORDERS.
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PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE coJ.oIL,
suggestion or scheme which offers a constructive compromise of these two,. .p9ipt~ of view .. Tlris will require close thinking, this will require -seriou,s ot;}µ7~1!il!S by- . .th~~m,.mittee lsuggeat. It seems to me, however, tha~ :itj~ !l~t i~PQ~sible ev;ell- from ·amongst. the present systeII1 of j\leetorates :p:r-ev!}ilillg Pn the continent and ·in America and even in China to find. a ·
_op:r:g.p~ajs~ ·w~ch cmight help .onr state qf a;ffairs.. The weakest point in- th:e sy~tem ·of ~eparate electorates is that every-mem.ber hae to look exclusively to hia: own eommunityfor his election and feels no responsibility . to other eommunifiies .. The main objection agailll!t joint electorate~ in the pres.e:Q.t Qommunar stage. of - the -country, is that it i~ ·op~n to: any-majority co:rnm.upity to elect people, who are riob9dies in the minority commumty-
. as latter'ifrepreseP,tatives.·.. Both _of th~se ·oojectioils, :sµ -itse~ms. to m~r- · could be eliririnated by introducing a system~ of dou bf e ballot which has been. successiv~}y pried -elsew4ere. Fo1· instance,_ every Muhaip.niadan. eonsti tuency' can fir!'!t sele~t two or three members whose names willbe placed againiria second ballot composed of the voters of other communitiesiri that
_ constituency who will finally select the Muhammadan member for that eon stituency. Si:m:ihu:ly · every Hindu.coustituency can ~elect'_ two or three·
- members which would go to non-Hindu . voters of that constituen.cy for. a second ballot. .The result of this will be that eY!3l'Y one who is re~urzjed will not be a nobody in his 'cQPStituency but will haye some suppqrt in his .: community and will have to win the confidence of other colil.Illunities also,'. Even minority votes will be respected under this system. I do not Ql11,imthis is the best of schemes; I only suggest this as a possible alternative; 8;S a ba11is for diseussion. The committ;ee, I hav~ proposed, could go into it and .. suggest necessary improvements. · ..• It could also tackle the ... · kindred. question of services on some equitable basis~- 'That will encourage a new, tra,o.itfon pf bringing ·communities together and· making it. Worth while-
- for every member who is representative of one community to look tothe supportoi other communities also ; Moreover it will foster an attitude of mi_nd of'ani:rnpartial judge more than of a partisan on questions of national. importance.
But there are . other points also and what is mote necessary'immediat ely · and forthwith is to eliminate those factors which contribute towards exeiting communal bitternese. The worst factor of that kind unfortunately, as. we all know and as has already been suggested in my. remarks in the morning; is the gutter press. I have with. me quotations in which references have· been made to some of the most eminent Hindus and Muhanrmadanssueh. as Sir Muhammad Iqbal and Mahatma Hans Raj, in terms which I feel sure would not l:>earrepetition in decent society. I appeal to tlw press which is a force-fa E}hfl,ping public 'opinion.to give up this attitude and I appeal to the Gevernmenf to control the communally jrresponsible section of the press b;y- speqial emergency legislation .. i submit, Sir, that the stage has also come -w-hen tlle importance and the prominence which is given to communal cases · by tM public could be mininised by some scheme which should be considered. by this committee or by the Member in charge, which migh,t give power.of ~mµmary disposal in such cases. Possibly these caseri might-. be held in 'cameffl so that too much prominence may not be givenjo tbe:)ll.
Another thing which I would suggest is this. We. are. having !"1 great deal of revival of physical culture movement in this province in' these days,. the Tanzim movement and the Sangathan movement. I for one, being:
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PU~JAB LEGISLATIVE CO~CIL. [ ~s,,n JUL 192 , • I i · .. ': __ - - - . I ,
_ ·.-:{.Mir M qbool Mahmood~] _ - I • 1
j -·. - we k man myself, _welcome this and 1 nd iµy • full support 1to the
_ ent o physicalcult'\lfe of this provin e, but I feel that the tren : o~e Q these mo:ve~ents are taking i disgraceful. I f e~l · he .
me.w ensomething should be done to_ heck this trend. ! It · ht ;: • -~~p- m tt~ts. if in 8'11 sa1111a.than _. akka ~ *ere are so~e fM ha
'. nd n· .anzim akha1'48 there are some ndus. That might , rod ~ , .. *~-:;:;;·;::1h:o::; 8 .:r.::::u;;;t t ·; .. . . . J~w l ntion of the House to Standing Ord~r 25 that noisPiee h d
. . el;>a e on an adjournment· motion shal exc~ed fifteen mip:qte in : t is o even in the discretion of the Cha r to give more than fif een
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' . Maqbool ... h~~ : One ·~u~e more and~ s~al hav
t&.°eu_·.·de_nt. ·. r-·F···,_ift~en·IDl· ·nu_ tes a e ovr .. 1
.r : .. and I hltv~ ~o owei minute more.,• · . · . . , · I I
a ad Mub~n,niad .. Husain [1\ ontdo:mery (:Muh~m~ clan) ·. , Urd ) Sir, · we shou! cl feel highly as ame~ of what has! rec ntly
d atL hore and Multan. No doubt th re used to take pla<ie iots . . her e en before this but there was alwa s so!he cause or otlhdr f r th
· · ut h twesee now 'i -- An innocent pe son,;fe~ling that nothi g u . as a pened, goe_s to ?uy something oml t~e basaar · l · 'e bas erha l!f · . on~ h lf oft~e transaction whe1;1 sndds s h~ is attacked 1a~d .tab d fro
· ehi d, I think a blacker cnme th u th'at can not be peietr ted, r . thou h of. No body, however, innoce t, is sure in thes~ da s th t be w l
i!eac h s place back withoutbeing m lested. Two resf1e~ta le le ers f ·. · ':!fern communities happen to quarr I ovbr a trifling nia~t · and i th
· .· tt.e. p to overthrow each other, they lunge their respeqtiye com uniti s ·fu.tp ·. moil. .Lask; have youtorgotte tho~e days when/ eye y bo _ us d
o fe l r the other when this other w s inltrouble. _Paf'dit ~ ana · c_ ha __ 'd ee a d and I understand he repeated th~ same thing g: t,o- y th t ·
· ur . p h~ in this bonourahle Ho se ~·epresent th fi ws f t e · ubli utside.. . . . . . . . 1 !
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. a dit Nanak Chand : On a p int i of personal ! eip anat n, S r cont n ed in-Urdu) Lnever said that. . hat I said was .. i •• i.. . .. : . . ·-_·· . >: .·· . i ! : . i
· .. . . a ad Muhammad Husain : Th h~nourable mefll~e can . 11;1-u .ti n in English. ·I can very well U11 erst~il~ that langµage
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. dit Nanak Chand (Urdu) : . s~~ulcl like to etp1ai i:° e honourable member may not misunderstand t;n8i _ a _ am. as that the outlook of the mem ers qf the First Reio med
as_ · e different from what we see to- ay and the reasqn lo i.t · . _ _ . h~'e E)~ J>fS,o.utside had. l?Ye and s:ymp th!! for each ot~~rf . ut we int is
. o _ _repres,ent ~he;r~lig1ous fa.nat~cs ts1~e •. I do_ not saj t at w s~o. d ot t ve for bringing about unity moµgst d1ffere~t I niti . am o the other hall(}as solicitous to c eate · goodwill in plae iseo d s ·a~~ other mem~er :of the Houge is ,.. ·
President : Order, order,
, Sayad Muha~niad Hussain : S1fr T. am pleased t6 hear this explana-:- . ,/" _ tjQn inasmuch as it appearsthat the OU\. r,)cof the .bonourable member' , < _-.
': ·r.\;{~8 ;i~~;a::at,~d :·_--srr, .1 protest-igain(f thi~tem~rk \ Mv -.~~~K ::_· . . ·1ooir was not whct:t .the honourable mem ber thinks and. therefore :if~ (lOUli:l .
tl()t . rind ergo. any . change. ·. '-,ft . . . .... ; ·. __ -- '/-- Sayad Muhammad Husain (Urdu) : ~-:ow the q uestionarises why .such_ . _, _ - . _
· - -- " · -' .· -; -. shanieful. deeds are being perpetrated~ .. I ain. not one .. of -- : .: _ ._.,, I _
6 P.M._ . '. ·.. •. those :who 'WOUld Jay the blame Jor w:h11t• is happening ·at r;- . . . : ·.· ._• ..
. - . .-,, 'the.doorortne.Gox-e:rpment: ' Tomy mind_tlie_pr~sent :tensionis the resultr:_-(\'<·/ .·.•'.
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·, /Of econ:omic ca-us~s ... -Th honourable :rriemller fapr0t1~nting Sialk ot was right .. - ~ :.;,; .... _. \ - ,:-<-when :hesaid that•· .• economic -- ttonbl~s are:a_t·the root_ .of .:au.;.· ... With .- : -::,.. .
1'--, _ ~ . ',.;, the int~oclrtctioll ·gf 'ltefor~ s . tbE}re'spruri._g up··tbis ·Msir~ in the D1fuds•> -.-, : __ / ··of the members: of.different ~.mmunitiesto;r~ceive.tnffgreatest$bai_ein"th(f -, \j' t:;,
,}·;;:';, --Ji~::\-:~1tt!5i t;~·.0}!l~~i~tc:::tc1t!;~r:.u1t.ri?Jt:J; b~!~:r~te:to::J;i;J·/3·:·_ ,,:, .• . . . ·t ; - 'recol'd:s. such· troublou( times ... · The·_'. British faatiori .. had" also· - to pass, \:; \> . , , _ \ _ through this ordeal once when the Catholieaand -the Ptot~tants werfat ;':;\ : ;:-•·.,: ·
-~.·. :,: :·:;_ _ d'aggei11 'drawn. . But befol'Ef long the Britishws. found it --necei;sarf .to adopt . ·:):.\ 1 r::-- ' '){ ;:a:::a ~{k::~o!~:!i:~~~:~i:t :~ p~~e~~ dfi!:r:tt":;e::! \!e~~1t~:;--~~:. - _ · _'_
f . me.aµs' to remeve-the 'present tension: .w.e ~Ollld horr~stly face the fact!k. ,., : v, •.· • ·-
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, · 'It is nouse.aayingthat suitable ce;ndidate~frqmamongst theMuban:unadans:~ . {: . and ·tor.the inatte:i:of jhatf.ron:i_ agains_tthti za.nrindai·s are not iorthcomiiig'i,':.: .. · ...
_ to fill upthe l:'ostii in diff€rent'Goyernmeiit dep~mentsi ~, -':Plrisis now_ a thing- -'-::{ of the past: because-I know that once 'the Chier. Engineer tcM me, .whenL .
~ .... _ _ w~nt to him- to:r~~ommend a gentleman for employlll~nfin ;the.-Irtigl).tion ;:, ··;) · J)epartriletlt, tb~(thefo, wer~ already SO ;ma11y llJJl)l-°Q'Yed;c~ndidates, Hindw,y·--:~::: .)': C:.
.,, : : .... 1\il;µha.i'.lliilad~nsand Sikhs, onthe'.WaitingJis~ tp.at·fotfiv~years, hence there-·./ ;-C . : > - </ . wa~ DO- hopiof an:fJresheaiididate being taken; Wlten sucliis the state of ,:;\<"'-, - . •/_·/.·\ .. _-affa.irg~.I.d,opotmidersta.ridwhyctli~Muha~~ttru,iandiittmiuc:farsshould'11ot .. \·it/
I ·_} ; __ ~---- . OEj eniploy~fl xngr~ater n~~·e:i:s-i~:at l~t sue~ depart¥ients ofihe ~ovet~,; <:-\·--;_ · __ - ' 1
. - m9fi.t On whQS0 good adIDII!Ul~rat1on depends·. the Welfare ?f the ZalJllOOlltS~. . : . . : l ') - -··: .-lta.k'e f9t~abiple the · Irrig.atioII I)epartme!lt'.:· . ff iii t~ gepaitlli~nt ianu'(f-:/:(/- t~: c: p.a.rs_are,e:m.ploy~jngr~actefi:nimber, .they' are. slll'e ,to !piovEi ·--mqi:e: u~efµI."·:;
'';7 c' •• / :oo~·te·t:;:;~='.~1. !:~~t!~!J.~Jf '(?f
---y;( '·rettuce~ by_t~e Sql):JutlgeJ; . • Before 1 close l#ould.like toill,vite the, atte:ii- •. :a,.:·,- .. , .· -,'_ • . ·_·.tion of the)1~no~abl~_ #ie~bers t<> tne j:ep~rfbY; ,~.:Apderson sµggestipg~ . ::·<·?>
measure11 for the improvement of the econ9m1c cond1t1on.JntheMuzaffargath··.•>;:' : . . . -. . . - ·. .. . ,·. .·;. ·_-.·,.·:·':'.,
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.more than anything else, it seems to me, tends to keep communal hatred alive • . Under the present laiw, Sir, the Government can deal with the.press only in
. · -t.wo ways, neither of which is effective; W ff can, if we consider that any . ·. .Jtl:ticleoffends against S(J(}tion 158-A; proscribe it. On that. order being pass-"
_ .. · •. ;e4 ifislawiulf-0r anypolice'.Qffieer::to seize and _._forleit to Government any. :_·::,:;:::_·:~opyofth~offendingi~sue .. BU:t theHousewill appreciate·tJ;i.at.thaiiparticular ·
if.;. __ powetjs in most casespedect1y· useless. .The publicatioa conies · to our :i .•.. knowledge after or at the same timeas it is available for. 'sale to the public. )/ \W_e,can proscribe and "'e (lo proscribe frequently ; htit the -miachief- fa usually•
. 0}\:'j:c'done before tlie' whol_e of the issii'e ean-be seized'.' It wa-& onlyduring the-.·.·. 1 :>:>: :,OODlilllilal.1'10ts10;Jiahore thatwe Were able, thankslargely to the never·Clt!li~~ . '>
· :.: j1;it·vigilancecof the Deputy Commissioner, Mr. Ogilvie/to whom Lahore on .. _:,{-t1us·accou.11t'and-0nni.anyothei· accounts, owes a great debt (h.ear, hear), it-"
.; .. was; only through his yigil:ance 'that we were able to improvise a-system by · ,which we can make proscription effective. I am · prepared to take
;thl3.House into my confidence as· to howthat system works .. . We gave Mr. · -Qgil_vie a staff of press-readers and he arranged that a copy of every news
:Paper_ as it was=published was•br()ugbt to him and wasin the hands of his . .. prees-readers within a few minutes .of publication. Any offending articli7 was . ·
::brought imin.ediately to his personal notice and he would tberi telephone <to me· and after_ I had taken the orders of -Govemment the. proscription, oruer
. :"wouldoe conveyed to}:iini by telephone. In certain oases ·'this efra.hlild him :tQ:saize the whole. of the offending issue before it got into the bands oftne· >publio; 'By that system . the police were· enabled toseize several offending
··.· .. newspapers, the whole edition, on oue'ocoasion, of a ·newspaper. whioh would );laveiiidded . enormously' fo . .the present . flam() of''coinmwial 'hatred.:.
': ,:l3ut. that ·systemis only :possible either at the hef!idquarters of/Government, . . of where Government is ,SO, close to the locaLauthoritfos that the orders:oarf
be.con.vey.ed by telephone.;. In most 'cases we can only proscribe a day orJ;wo < . ;,·- it.fter\the publioationJ:ia-s beenmade and when, as I say;.tne mischief is done.", - .
. ·, \You .migbt,·£iy;.l'eoy<>u .have· also the or<fmary crimirin,l. ·]aw· .and under:" . · :seotio~:158-.A,you'can prosecute editors.afol publishers,!'. ,We 'do ·prosecute/.
liiitthat is ~ 'lengthy. pioi,e~ c~d it:'often seriureEt pubU~itt }o ,public~m.omi' . o:i:, a:itioleifwmoh.otherw.ii«fw911ld re11iain,m the obsc~rity\vbfoh:tuefueserve:.: .
. One'haS:~:.relUe.tl'.!ber;·th~t,:\~·J:ien (}ll\ren;imen.t gets 'the miontiation 50 people; ma:y'have 'l'ijM. .that ~'l'tiefe;:_:::,If we publisliit-and th.a: trial ii reported in.the~
, ~ewsp1;1pers_ io;OOO peop}i:wiHi,:probably . read it arid Jha·;bad effect_ will 'l>e~/ · µiteµs~ly.'in,agnmed. Bu~ a~a.rlt'fri>.m'tha.t, you.have the widespread piaotioe. ··
. '.iA,.lihis;:giliiter' piess to- w,¥04-I' e,:~ referring of puttiiig .. up a.'dunirpy editor._ :$h«(p'el'.90lt'WMS~n&me ii(pupli~hoo _as that of: -the eclitor ii1caoootdanoe.witk i;l\e cia,w ,can.& wli6-malies a ~eol~rJiti<>ri ~fore the Magistrate a$ the editor, . is _
_ 11$UeJly~11.:.arimniy.and .. verY:frequently.a.n ·ex-eonvfot•for:wliom' iinpriaonment . l1~s ·n:& Jer:ro~.. _ At the, pi:esent; :m<>foent· the· edi.tor. of one· of the prinoipal
.. ·,, ,diµiy p~pers~of·L~ore, .is;ron his.:own .oontession~ a forger of ourrerio;y?notes. '·. .snd ohly:·esoa.ped;:oonvi.otioii),;1f:suoli _ by gi'Ving<awa.y]i,iif associates ... :An:..
- '-~tMr. papef atAiriritsar is at the:presentr moin.ent. editetfof itomina;lly · etiitetl ,., : h,t'.; a; 1:nar(wlio - doe~ not• kn.0cw' 1L9:w-:to· write;. wh;o has ~b~aµ iif turjjf a liarbe»~ _.
,., '.:', :·'~ifyc,~; aaeserter.h<>I)l an Ilidia.iflnientijRegiment axid :an eili--001.l.Yio~< ~lfose: · ·. : : :,,; : ':.,eJor:tiof.peopfa ·who ate tl>;a·.norninaLeditors.of thi& guttef p:r~s~"'.aria itis_tha.i;
;: ·:.:&:oit~of\ . ople, who,. 'if· we;pr.9seout'e u,iitler. :seotid1f 1oa~4./fuiiiJhemselv:es . . · . . · -e~ent~µ:lJ~e jail .. : : Does .theiiooftviotio11 preverit .tli'e publfoition of these ._
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atm-y articles 'l Certainly not. which almost every day repeat
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.. . Ther~fo~B "'.!'l shall.be prepared-to givefull support to the Governlneit in ;·any-reasonable measure that they lriay bring forward fo;r puttirig doWll. what
. ~is. called the ' g1!-ttefjiress.' 1 assure the<,Go-vernment that: by: bririging . .forward 'such : a measure, tb_~y would really be putting the whole of the
{Punjab under a great ohiigatiori. · · ·· ·
-··: .. , .·When#&~~dis~tiesfug:tbisp~ol:)lemfrom.th~ poiiit .. of viewofhctwto_.· /:i):·eme.dy.th9coinmUJ1al. tension.ol: th4,;k .that .w!\ile.spealringon··.this.motfon·
::ewe': ought.not to fay stress on oui'. grievances. . nre more yo11:,go J)ti·tal~g ,: in a fiery manner in order to win the approval of the outside public .the more ; you willber()ally -inflaming' -popular passions: and increasing the' tension which you :want to ptit down. I therefore beg of the honourable members
iwho wm:· speak after me that· they should suggest positive remedies and prae '.'tical methpds by which the communal trouble can be removed; It fa. no use : trying .to exaggerate our own_ community's difficulties, or the difficulti~s '.or the: grievances· of _other communities, We know that each- co:rp.munity ~ha~ got its own legitimategrievances, I knowthat there arepeoplo who. ;;think that because they are 1\!uhan;rrnadans; they should get this/that because - they are Hindus, they should. get that or because they are Sikhs they should iget something else; All these problems must be carefully considered by the .board or the committee which .the honourable mover suggesta," Thatis a
:~very reasonable and proper suggestion and it should have the approval of ;the whole House. As regards the second point, namely the sup.pression of·
_·_the.communal. papers, which talkabout nothing else bufr:filtb and whose- .· chief · object ~ to inflame popular passions so far as our community is eon-
·::cernf)d, it will have our full support. -. . •· . , :· u
fc:t1ad been but~hered and their bodies mutilated. . r believithat SllbS;.quent ,- enquiries showed that the woman in the Kotwali had nothing: to do wi:(ihthe . riots b,iit had been wounded as a result of a private quarrel: · But the man' . who couldinvent, from one wounded woman, iwo deaths and two 'i:nutil~ted :;~orpses is surely beyond the pale of any sort. of civilisation. . - .· .. ·. ' ;,.
~ . Pandit, Nanak Chand (Hoshiarpur (Non-Muhammadan), Rural): .Bir, I congratulate my honourable friend, Mir Maqbool Mahmood, for.having . brought· this-. motion and for having made a very reasonable speech and for . having suggested very reasonable remedies for the present-day troubles. Tb.at 'there are grievances from which the Muhammadans suffer, nobody will
-dispnte. That there are grievan 393 from w.iieb th.3 Hindu community suffers, .ziobody will · dispute ; but these are matters· which we should calmly place ·
.before the committee which my honourable friend, Mir Maq bool Mahmood, . has suggested. Then, Sir, as regards the speech of the Chief Secretary on
, ;this point I myself was thinking of bringing in a private bill which I would .·have called ' the Communal Papers Suppression Bill ' (Hear, hear). _.But I thought that a bill.of this kind may not have the support of Govern _foent or other members. · But if the Government brings a bill of this kind, I ; . assure tho Chief Secretary and other Government Members that it will have .. our full support. We cannot possibly go on seeing these deliberate mµrders -committod and . innocent ' people butchered for. no. fault' of theirs and ~if we are t, in any way fit for Sawaraj we .· should be . prepared to
. 2shoulder these responsibilities-for putting down. the crime in every possible :. roa;t'.).ller we can, - . . a
817 MOTIOiN FOR A.-DJOURNMEN 'l'.
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_ ·with'regarcl-.to · the prevention of inflammatory sp~eches aswell as_ writirtgs;.- _ _ · ja that .people who· make .inflammatory speeches· have their . eye _on IL.;
very innocent :abstraction called -tho " gallery " . The '?lters w ho ":rite inflammatory articles have also their eye on that portion of the
- public which _ want$ _· nothing _ but spicy writing and t~us thia game· . which everybody recognises to be harmful to the best mterests of the
. ecuntry is going on, "7bat we need is that some sort of correotiv9' - may be applied to this trend o"f public opinion . There is no doubt that the- - ,I:Qasf!es like only spicy speaking andspicy writing. Uanybody is making a,
. reasonable speech they get tired and bpred and "walk away. If anybody . . is t_alkingloud and if any body is denouncing what he wants to denounce in the .
= _ very strop.gest terms possible or if be is abusing his opponents ,he is listened _ - . to wjtb great zest. __ The same is the case with regard to writing. Tho only way in wbiob you can improve things is by shaping public opinion and for
.. that it is necessary that all right thinking men should have the courage to, _ express t1'i.oir, views on such effusions publicly anil openly. Then, 1 think, reasonable sections of the public will lend us their moralsupport an<1 the, terideney towards inflammatory writing and speaking will diminish r . n even .
.. as-ft.er.the adoption of some measure like the one I..ha.ve described an<l even;, ; attot friendly advice to the papers concerned, ,they continue to :behave,
Biidly, there would he a strong case for fresh legislati.on. ._ - · · - · . . . Anotber point· has been mentioned and that is il)at some way musf b,f found· of adju,sting the requirements of the various communities, with regard. to.their repr~se;ntations in Councils or in the achmiiistration of the country.:" Some memb~rs '-in the. course 'of the debate this morning spokeof this;· partfoula:r> reform ~as a negligible item.. I do not' regard it aEi a negligibl~,
_____ -· - _ .it~rri not do I agree.with tho1:1e who say that it is reftlly !\ panacea for all out . ·:>:,\.·trbubles. Thi1fis i:mdoubt_e_dlya eontributory an~1 a m!l,terialcause of trouble- >
: ./Jtnct" a remedy for it must be devised. - - But wba;t ·fa· giving even_ .further - . - . ; '< troubie than this adjustment is: that . there is au.eh a tendency towards need:··
- lessly. injuring the feelings of one another on the platform: and the Press; .: Speakers~reg',}rt · to high flown languageand think it.is a sign of great bravery , t() express .their views on any subject in very strong terms. - Lthulkifwe
. .Ieam tocontrol ourselves in the expression of ourtliougbt, and if we-express ._ our views with due. regard .~o the feelings of others, we would be avoiding
· a lot .of friction." One of the chlef sonrees of trouble is deliberately injuring )h~ religious susceptibilities d others. - This may have itii origin in economic
·•stru.ggladrit may be-due to political rivalry but things. have come to such e. ._. pass·tbat_ lifo is becoming intolsrable. Allof us, Hindus, Muha:nun.1i,dans and' -
_ Sikhs - and Christians - shoul4 combine to stop this _ evil,'. :There is no earthly· -~- - justification for this· lµnd of thing to be indulged fa tb.e Press or on the pfat·
·forin-.or anywhere· else: It should' be deprecated .. and very strongly and ;.;. : unresezyedly deprecated by everyb,ody. I think all the members of this;
· lfo;u~e should make up theirmind to do their duty in -_ this respect and wher tiver th.ey find · any · deliberate attack on tb.e _ religious susceptibilities of':
:J1nothe! co:r:n.munity, they should express themselves in unequivocal tarnlS- ... as t<ithe undesirability of.s:uch a1f'attaok even at the risk ofincu.i'ring some r odium .. 111 .doing !10 they will - be doing a. great service to the oaus~ of the·
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. · Chaudhri Zafriillah- Khan (Sialkot (Muhammadan), Rural): Sir,_ . '. we have thoroughly realised that the inter-communal situation at the, present;
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11 I . PUNJAB LEGJSLAT VE j:;OUNCIL. 927 ..
audhri Zafrullah Khan J . I ; JI /: .e. nt i~ at its wor.st an:l all of us real~se.! that s.0~1 r.~
.r qt red m order to ameliorate the present eonditio s.' ;t e ourse of this debate and during t e cdurse of otherJr1~t test smo rung :.al.·. natelJ congratulated each othe andl condemned eaph, oth an con.:c.
c! at lated. OUJ:selve,s and condemne ourselvesand expr ssed] ur 1hQr.;;
·~r l e~l::!s0k !!1;:1t:i~;e;~::1 -i::~ti:;,t~ut;:e;l~!ltft1!~ { 0n~0
N~~: . ;~-~ out any des._ire. Jo lay a_ b. lame u ·.on. 0. 6V.1 ernment, 11·:wl nld gge~ th~t _:it is the duty of Government at the )res¥!1J moment ~o take a 1 ad 1 this
_ at er. I know that Governmen might appreheµnl · t at 1 terf C -a t e present moment might lead to furt~ier trouble r~ttjer than o a t' of the present .troubles. But t at i$ not so. 'I~e ~ommu ties
·:a· .. e .. ·•· at···_··.pre~e~t .... figh_t_ing. e.1J,chother ill ~h. o_i rtly get t~r1rl o! r iHn_g each :o I 1Lan~ _mJur_mg ea.~h other, and ~ zen ~h~ worst ele1p~n. mt e d1 er~~t ,,1} ; munities willrealise that the t1 e hrts icome for spiy.e settl e~t to _lie :'-.a edat between themselves. n . verpment anowlt~e. rese t sit ation
~n_tinn~ a·n ... d .. aU. O.··WS thi~gs to drif to ~uc.:h a J)ll.SS t · ay t. e. di • ren. t CQil.l faes sit down and arnve at a s ttleiµent among h1m elve. that agam be a source of fresh trouble. overnment will ~e ,ex Ind d fro any
~ e settlement and then a new p asel of the situa1ti~n will rise. The munities will unite and begin to :6ght with Govrr men . 1 ould
.. e pfore suggest t~at n-ove:nment shofl~ not conttue to r ain loof, · n should not consider that its onl duty 1~ to enforc l~w and der '1 to o trol the different sections of the iublie in such a , ajy hat e pe ce of .
· Majesty should not be broken. Itslduty is something mor than that, iz, the entire Welfare of the prov . ce ttml what I io?l sug st iJ that () el']l~e~t s!1ou11 call t~gether a onfere.nce of the l~ad s of. . e cl . erent o _P1urnt1es m tb,is province, not xcluding any shad~ f op ion r any a .. rnuni_ty however ~malt . F?r in ance, ii?t only s~o ld it in u_de Insal
s, Hindus and Sikhs, but it sho uld ailso include lid a. Chr tian , non- . cial_. Eu.rope&ns. ····.• and (love7nm. . ent sh?~hl .. ' also be ~ a ty to. s. . h ~ on.ter
.U! e.. Government should give a le d 1~ such a oonte ·E,pc and invit th9se ·.·.·.··, o ... ·.t .. a.lke .. ·.·.par·t-ili_ .. J .. t.· .. t_?_c·a·.·:Te.ful···l'y· .{~el ber~ .. tejupon the ~a_._is.Js wh h ha '.e ~-e··.d· .o the preslmt sit11atiorr and.t.akin up1 matters one1 hy net. to u1ve
t. ·Q·rn· e. ·s.or. t o.·f.-ie·t···U·e~en .. t.·w··· .. h -. i .. ch w uld. .. ~.·._e ... :.binding u1~~i· ·_all. pa ie_s b t n.··o .. t·. · n he sense th. at. m;>t~ngm. it could e mf.d1pecl su. bseq~he t y w h it c· m:to · h stage of legisl1;1,t,10n. ,No doubt the ask of stich o ere e wo Id o:e i :eitlt, hut the experiment is cer ainl tell worth t · ~ . pre iou~ly
.n.· .. h .. ~ hi. 'stories of.·differ.en. t_co:un. t~e , ~it 1at1··~ns much fci1t ra···n·.· .u .. c wo···rs_e h n the one at present ex1stmg m s proy1!1ce, hav4 bfe ha -eds ccess-. - u lY: _as a result .of such confetenc , tl~ere 1s no re31sqn by ch a result
_h··.·._ ul .. ·.a.· . n.ot .. follow·_·_i .. n··. t.his provin. ce. · I w.q· 'in.le.~, the. reforE~n ges. t.·· to G. ve.rn- · nt that they .sb,ould take a kee I' interest in the lrtt r' a th t they h uld not only. ·;~onfine themselv s tq preve~tin~ s~c . occ I renc s · but ·
uld go further ~nd call a confere ce dn the hues 1 die ed ove nd to fo find out the ea uses which lead o th:~e unfortunate Jha )pe gs a d then
o~~ry~"an9. put into practice the co clnRforls which r~g~\t be . rived acil in ~a conference. ·.,
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Diwan Babaclur Raija'Naren 'a Nath [ (Punjhb L ndh ders (HeJif)· }J : Sir, I was amongst those w o d,d tiot rise to tntp rt, tl mot on·for
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a&jonmment and it behoves me to explain. this attitude of mme. ·1 was:. guided by two reasons in not supporting the motion for adjournment. l thought at first that the a,ebate would give rise to eontroversial-issaea an~ a, disc11Ssion of those controversial issues will aggravate the situation ra.the~ than soothe it or assuage it. Secondly, my fe,ar wasthat the discussion would not lead to anything practical or anything which we could adopt at onces or which would lead to any good result immediately. I am glad that the, controversial spirit bas found free vent in discussing o~her matters which; precededthe discussion of this motion for adjournment. I think each side has manifested ample spleen in discussing the various cuts which were:i proposed and P.erha11s the conttoversi11J spirit is assuaged and the spirit of hostility has been se~ at rest and that is why the discussion on this motion for adjournment has assumed a more peaceful fo.rm. With regard to the second reason, I am not yet satisfied that any practical results will be> achieved, but I am quite prepared to lend my support to any proposals! which may be made for meeting the difficulty. From my friend the honour-. able member for Bialkot I expected a deeper analysis. With the first speech; that he made I was. satisfied and I did not rise to make a speech myseH because he had anticipated me on many points, but in his last speech bis: analysis has not been as deep as · I expected. He wants Government t'Q> help us .. I do not know what he means by Government. Perhaps in using: the word Government he means the local Government. But the causes: lie deeper: The causes lie deeper. than those which the local Government can tackle ; they lie even deeper than those which the Government of India can tackle, (A. voice; Even deeper. than those that Go.d can tackle).· l will come. to that afterwards. 'I hen in the various speeches that have been made, references have been made to the press, to .the gutter press. Everyonebascondemnedthe press-and my friend the member for Mont.: gomery has traced the causes to the economic trouble wnilst others have. said tha:t the whole dispute is due to conflicting economic interests; 'Ibis
>js true, so far as it goes, but how to solve them? Some have one way of solving the difficulty, others have other ways. Therefore we are not, united a,s to the w11,y in which that economic conflict should be removed,
With regard to the press, lot mo remind the Council that we are -very fond -0f blowing hot and cold at one and the same time. We, at one moment, are advocatos of individual liberty and of curtailing the powers of the. execu tive, and the very next moment we come forward with a proposal in directly the opposite direction Section 144 was being .discussed a short time ago and some of my friends ware finding fault with the way in which t.he police-: has discharged its duty, as if the police when trying to disperse a mob i,hould!. · treat its members astheir own brothers. And now, we hear a request being: made to stop the gutter press at once. I would request my non-official friends to bring forward a bill which will meet the difficulty. Why put, Government in that difficult situation ? Whe11ever Government brings. forward a restrictive measure, cries are raised that Government is interfering!.
· with tho liberty. of the public. I am not despondent. I do not despair .. l think it is possible to reconcile these two conflicting principles, .but the, difficulties are by no means small for any one who undertakes the task. My.' friend the honourablemovsr of the motion which we are discussing, tried his· legislative talent with thtl bill which we discussed last yearand we know the fate of it. I am not at all disappointed. He is a gentlerr an who bringa,
821 MOTTON FOR ADJ,)URN.\IENT.
\:ll, Sir, how thes•\i'ouflicts aro t . rot for this 0011:-11:ilt,o tackle .wi
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. '-O>U:noil can guiiJ_e the edueatfonal curricula and}ay down CO~tiiea·of ed~cation~ ~and also lay down certain policies on which the future: generiitions should be.:
, · "brought. up 'in schools. : The" Council can appoint committees to'go into the · ·-question ofcurta.Wng the liberty of the press and 'all .reasonable proposal» ·
· · wilLget .the support ofright thinking men. The Oouneil' 'can 'even bring - Jorwa:rd ·a law to control the. prim. · B.1t I think these measures will not.
:-go sufficie~tly far to . achieve the real object which we hive in view; - ', · 1,:fowever I should · be very glad to· support any reaso nabla . measure for ,
•-Q9l'.ltro11ing ·the press. . · · - · - .· ~. _ . . '. ,· ; lliina Firoz-ud-Din Khan (S~uth-East Towns (Muhammadan) Urban]:\ .
·:;({IrJu)': Sh, rnyIriends and myself had no inteution of taking part ip the: .: o'.1:bate which ha,s been so ably initiated by my friend Mir 'Maqbool Mahmoou. -
t< ~11t th.a .Iaet that. an attempt is being made here .to create an atmosphere .. \ f.,(jf goodwill and amity in the country; has led me to say a few words on the
· -. .... ·:subject 1,111der consideration, 'in.order to avoid an impression, 'wrong of course, . ~tQ_be created that wehave DO sympathy with 'this laudable objeet.:
·In. connection with the 'subject .under discussion two •. constructive pro.;· . ~'P9.l}als have been put forward by my learned friends. 'I'he first is the reforma~ ·
• : fion of the press and the. second is the holding of a . round ta ble conference · ·· in which the representatives of all the communities· should take part and in
/<which the Government. also should be asked to participa:t:e. . - .· ··~, · . As regards the. first -I admit that some newspapers of this provfi1c0;
. .have for some time past. been indulging in language which does little. credit~ · ·,:to them ancLwhich no sane parson will condone. Such writings deserve
\' .the severeJ:lt condemnation 'inasmd~h as they promote oommnnal-tension' ,.:and coinmunal hatred. But inmy bumble opinionitis·no ..• use curtailing .the liberty of the press by ii:np9sing restrictions. The imposition· of frt1sh ,,t1:1strictions on the liberty of the p:r;ess will not mend· rµatters. , . The press
·.· .,merely refl00cts the mentality ofthe masses. The presscannot mould public -epinion here. From 1919 to J 923 the press was. the same but 'the mentality
'>Of the people was different. Unfortunately a cllange for the worse has come · - " over the mentality.·. of tho people.' . We. have ceased to thirik oBhe intet$tS
: oft!:.ie nation as a body politic. "Our outlook has become narrower and we: .have·begun to think communally.' . __ ,
. . . J am at one with· Sir Abdul· Qadir that some good. may bo".achieved by .appointing a committee of non-official censors. · But what' ·is of .far greater .llll'.l:po:rt is that we should try to discover the causes of the existing state of , ::affiurs: 1£ you want peace and order in the country, if yon want progress," ,you must find the r-ootmtus~s of the evil that has crept into our.body politic; It is no use making speeches in the Council; It is no rise making mquntains -ot mole hills; · The country is passing through a poison belt. ' It is necessary
.. to eliminate th~ poison which has putrified tho atmosphere.of the country, · · .By resorting to make-shift arrangements the evil that is stalking through the -eountry cannot be. stopped froni doing its work of destruction. The only remedy at hand is that Hindus andMuhemmadens andif necessary Govern-
· .ment also should form a conclave and give their best thought and eonsidera 'tio:ri. to the discovery of the .reasons that hawi brought the matters in the
... countrY to such a pass •.. My learned friend.Raja Narendra Nit:th bas niad.e ~ny amount of destructive . criticism; In his estimation . neither 'the local .Government nor the. Government of India (A voice: Not.even .God) cando
. MOTION FOa ADJOUBNMENT, .
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PUNJ~B LEGI$LAT1 E: C~UNCIL
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we araactually living in a stare of civil war. If stringen~ measures are not; taken to put this· down, the: atmosphere of tho whole province will' bo·:
.poiaoned, · - - -: ': --c __ _ • _
- Itiupwrt-Ohaudliri Zafr-ullah Khan from the)>ottom of my heart thaf a, round ~ble confefence "should be held at t},l,s- earlies~ _pos!!ible moment in which Gov-erm:nent should also be asked to participate. This conference should eiefully C<)nsidar the ·present situation ::>,ri.d: suggest wa.ys to suppress: the existing communal 'tonsion. If this communal hatred permeates the: rest oft~ C(?U!;ltry a.n(tho pooplo li_vin~ in vill.2.g?~ ~,come to foggorheads,,. God a,lone kriow:.s whero eventually 1t will landus;/'; ·. _ . '-
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh· (Minister for'- Agrioiil~: tu.re)_: - Sir, I_ rise- to say ono word. I have .listenod with very_ great pleasure to all -the speochos that have been made. I. fool that tho practical good, sense oftho Punja bis is ·t!.ssorting itself and members of all sections and eom-, munities ere boginning to think and will find somo romody for the: difficulties! that we arc now fa.cin"g: It scorns to mo that we now 'recognise that if the present pace of communal tension is maintained it will be · impossible tq_.. assure r.ny - mer.suro _ of· future progress. The _ - very· in t.:Jrosting -- speech - which_: the honourable member for· Sielkot _ made and which · the _ other honoura ble. members supported e.pp_ears to be on. the right lines, in that we ero called:
'upon to meet end discusinmd roach a sottlomont. I em sure that we can. overcome difficultioa if- we- cultivate deliberate good "will. As Sir Muhanunad:.
__ Iq br:I pointed out, thoro-is no time to be lost .and the sooner we sat our hearts. in finding some wl.'.yof restoring the communal poaee, the better. , I will not detain tho House r,ny znoro: at this late hour but I 'appeal to tho honourable members, as a priv.::.to :·moinber - of this House, to realise the •seriousness. _ of the situation and ·to· work forpoeco. 'We certainly.nood ~ bettor press; .... ·
'and r. greater rostrr.int" by our publicmen who:ii · they sposk leading to a. - . chi:.ng·l in .our mental ~ttifode, so that we may learn to live together happily
and - restore· tho kindly feeling that used to exist in _ overy villego .when - I wai. · a boy. Tromembor that in my villt\ge all of us were livin.-gtogother happily, Muht;mme.dmis, Sikhs end Hindus. - Wo were atll liko rele. tions. - We used· to~ cell elders ehacha, baba, bkai. I think it is our duty, and it is ourimmodiete duty, · to 'do all . that , we can to restore good relations in tho province and" I r.m quito sure thet if the members ofthis House are resolved to attain posce.. and thoy r;ro n<>t content with 'making speeches, thoy ccn do e. great doel to-, ease tfu.)tvnsion: I do hope that this House :will -not forget tho very in terestingdiscussion that has taken place but will do something to give~practi.;. cal shepn to some of the ideas that have been expressed. I am quite sure. that my community and the other communitieswillall join together in doing this groa t work for tho province. Lastly I will appeal to you r..11 not to forget the groat problem whichwe have now discussed,a.nd not to be despondent.. The problem is of our making and on us depends its solution. I do not agree. with Raja. Sehib that oven God cannot solve the _problem.
Diwan :&hadur Raja Narendra Nath : I never said that;
The Honoura.ble S~rdar Jogendra Singh : I n:n gl~d - to hoar tho - Raja. Sahib's denial.
Chaudhri Ram Singh [Kangra (Non-Muhammaden), Rural] (Urda): .Sir, there .is no denying the fa.ct_ that the press of this unfortunate province,
MOTION FOR _A.DJOURNMENT~
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PUNJAB LE.GISLAT E OOVNOIL,
i Ram Singh, J
. . :]ittie avail. Newspapers that want to write on COllllll.UJJ.~1 subjects would - .merely 'go ~to th(l neighbouring Indian States or cross the border and, go· /to- Delhi or the United Provinces, Anything done about -the press xq.ust · _be _ .an .all-Indie measure. If legislation is ·needed, ~s it appears to'oo, to criib: . this coJlllllunal~riting .. which is such a. disgraoe, it needs all-India legislation ··
""arid not loc~Uegislation ~mly. Sir Abdul Qadir- made some interesting sug ,.gestions about a committee of public men who should go round and conduc~-~
- -a sort·ofcensorship~·on the press. I may ob~ry~ t~atthis was at one timR, ~tried in Laho1:e~ _ The press in Lahore was ve,ry bad in ·January last and: ,oortain gentlemen were asked, when a bad artiole appeared in rtnewspa~r, _ to visit · the persons connected _ with that no}Yspaper _ and .meke suggestions: : to them that they should not write that_ sorf of thing which only kindled_
. scommunel tension.: .. That committee'. did excellent work for a· time - and _l. · ;.think Mr a season it really- had -goo::! effect. It might be tried cgain in a very~
.intonsive form. But its o:ffoct during tho .recont Lahore riots . completely ~ had'wened: and there was no influence to prevent the.excesses to which the - different writers of the lower- class presshad resort. 'l1he suggestions as - ;regards the round table -conferencos or in the alternative a committee will be carefully considered bv Govemment. I am not: sure that· at the .- :llloment thoy are a. real.: remedy. I .tako >ny thoughts 'back to- th~-: :tiine when there wss an all-India Unity ·conference 1lt Delhi.;. · I , :think most of the leaders of Indian political partios were. at tha.fcon-: - :feronce. They all expressed opinions in favour of illrity, but the eon-
. ferenea fail(ld in its object and nothing was effected. The reason -~eems to have been that amorig the -· communities there was at the '. tiin,a·no t~al - desire, -for unity. If in 'the- communities-· themselves;;
· .either by the influence of religious· men or the secular leaders/there can)?~_, J!ome real sort of urge created towards wishing for unity and wishing to live. together as neighbours, then no doubt the ,stage will come whenjieople .. will be 'anxious ·actually to achieveunity. ~At that stage there may ha .things thoy cannot settle among themselves. _ Then possibly the. Goverll!1wnt
- - might usefully come 'forward-_. as regards certain problems; they .might be - Atplejn thesequestions to help to a conclusion which would satisfy all IfLrhes
and from which unity would en_sµe; But-while wounds are. raw, while __ i!;)elings are running high.I do riot myself believe that an immediate oonferenee.
.. :at which the Government was .represented.will at the actual moment effect 't "any good. - The suggestion 'will be watched; it has germs of great l!,tility j:11 it ; bi;it it is 'aquestion of when it can be - applied; The other thing I-_ have.mentioned.isI believe the real root ofthe matter, that is there must be some movement in- every community manileating a desire that every one .should help each other and fiomwhich some real efforts should be born for· .betterrelations and for means to. live together as neighbours.' '.Ibat, Sit, 1.hope may be forthcoming: If there a:reany'signs of.it, Government will ;give to such a spirit every helpit has in its power; ·
, . Dr.Shaikh Muhanunad Alai:µ (West Punjab Towns, (Muhammadan) ::rJrban) ~ Sir, I .think my honourable friend from Hoshiarpur has really_
-voiced the feelings of those members of this honourable Council who are .sitbing -on this side. Lhave yery little to add to what he has said. All I .ii.in prepared to say is we are not altogether unreasonable people and if the~e .is Teal reasoning to convince us, .we are willing to give way;'·: We are not .out to fight with Government on grounds which are not reasonable. If the,
: -827 MOTION FOR .AJJJOUUNS1E11iT •
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PUNJ,AB LEGISLATIVE OUNCIL. ; !
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... HONPRABY MAGISTRATilS.
_ *316. Laia Boclh Raj : _ Will: the Honourable Member for ~noe· p1ease state· t!i.Efrlmnbet of 1:fonotaey :Magistrates'Ifi:Othe ptoivince':...... ·
. (i} ~l:lo•do pot: ]mow English; (ii) who -49 notknow h~Wto read ~d, ~ Ilt4µ,-'; .
(ii,) who havf not passed the matriculation standetid1t
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HONORARY MAGISTRATES.
*315. Lala Bodh Raj: . Will the Honourable 1\foinber for Firiani0$' please state the number of Honorary- Magistrates in - the province -
(a) who are holding the office of zaildar and lambardar separately ; (b) who a.re:the- members- of any local bony· or district. Board (show
ing. the elected and. nominated m~mbers- s,tn>arately) ;- "'-'-·" ·cc) who have boon granted ia.nds or are holding jagirs;
(if) · the total area of such land granted to Honorary Magistrates ancl the toaI income of ja.girs per annum held by them f
.. The . Honourable· Sir . Geoffrey deMontm.orenq•: (a) and (b) Steps will be;taken to collect these statistics and· the result communicated· to the honourable membe» _in due course. · · . ( c). arid ( if The ~ofltJction ofthese statistics will require a great amoug;t . of labour and Govermnant db not, in the circumstances; consider themselva.. jWJtified in undertaking the task of-collection.
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STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. LIO:FlNBES OF FIRE ARMS.
*314. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Home· Secretary be pleased to. state - whether the Government have issued any instruction to the district. magistrates that licenses of fire arms be not given to those persons who were. in any way connected with non-violent non-co-operation movement ?
Mr. B. H. Dobson : No.
OATH OF OFFICE. The [nllowing member was sworn in:--
Sardar Harl Singh [Ainbala Division (Sikh), Rural].
PUNJAB _LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. - 2~v SESSION OF THE Ban PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL-
Tuesday, the 19th July 1927. Tmi Council met at Barnes Court, Simla, - at 10-30 of
the clock. Mr. President in the Chair.
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PU~JAB LEGISL.ATI"V' CO~N;C.lL. [l~T ' . . i !
•' ·• •· .: • _.•. • : ,I L l l he Honourable Sir G~ffrey· -. eMontmorency : 1("') an tted that statistics are not avail Ole. i I I
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( ~ 12 only, but this does not me n that these 12 11,r~ ite any vernacular. .
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CAsES'TRmD BY Hoxo RY.IMA01sTRATEj· i . 17. Lala Bodh Raj:' Will t e Ro:q.ourable M~~b r fo state according to districts for t e ytar 1926 -· I i ·
: : I : (i) the number of cases sent t Honorary Magis1tr~te for ispo l;
(ii) in how many of them conv ctio~ was held ; i ] (iii) in how many of them the c mplr,irits were wi~h: .
. (iv). in how, many of them the ecused : were discHar~e , . ; (~J in how many of them the encr was compofnre ?
e Hon~-~able Sir Geoffr cleMontmorehq, ents Nos. II and III of the A ual i,Criminal ,Justice dmi
Re o contain information of the kin whlch the hono~r3ibl me for . r garding the disposal of criminal cases by Honorary IM gist Go :e . ent thinks n~ useful purpose . ll beJse~v~d by th~ c9ll ctio sta 1s cs of the precise nature spec ed m · 'this questi01;1.. The J ti Administration Report for 19 is bot yet in thb ha ds o me t but will shortly be published. he honourable m!erttb r wi in p ssession of as much infonnatio as 'Oovernment is bo veni
· w.i. · ut special and detailed enquiry to J>!Ovide on th~. ubje . .qu on.. I ! . _I i. . . .: .
1 'LIM 1 i · ·CASES TRIEJ) BY Ho ORtY[ .AOISTRArEr· :
318~ Lala .Bo:dh Raj : Will t e Honourable M~IIJ!be f.o Fi pl0as state according· to districts for e y~ar 1926 -- f') ·
(~}, the number of cases sent to Honorary M,:gi~tr tes ·. Benches; I · ! · ·
+:. _ - (ii) in flow ~any of t}l~~ the ~rr!ints were. isI1u~d - the ac~ · cused m the first insta e ; I : . i ,, .
.. . , _ (iii) in how many. of them the ofie~ces charged ·ete nde such sec ~ions of ~he Penal Code at ~ea,l with cri~rw'., : rea of t st, ».e., sections 40fl to 409; I. Pr cl. ? . . i j. •·.
' ' i e Honourable Sir Geoffr y ~eMontmor,ncy : (i ·at o ·is being collected andvthe re ult [will be c0Iti1*u icat
! ~- ffble inef~~r: . . . f .. . . J., I : . ' (ii) and (iii) . In view of the 1 hour; involved, .GQve . e . ca ot
' d rtake to collect this informatio by id,istricts for th:b, . hol ce; B t the honourable tp~mper desires tati~tics for any t-lvo . strie s and will ,
them, an atteifrptl will be made to collect the"reqriirl:ld info iatio for two distticts;· \,., ' .. , ror,: ', '.::.: . . j : :J-.j,'
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•v9i,.x-A, pe.gfl72 .. '. · . . . - , . ·, , .. ,, ; :. _ . · . - _ • . . ,- •In the absenee o:l'_the Honourable Revenue Member, questions addressed to him were an-
- swered by the Government mem¥r~ indica~ ;ltglmlBt:the··respectivtt questions; - - - -~ •vol X-A, pa.ge 172. · ':·-'. . · - - . •Vol. X-A, page_l72. . · s ' -r :, •• ,
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s ~-. *322.; Lala Bodh Raj : W L,h r,;f~-i~m: to.she r~piy Ji; the unsaarred -qneanon N«. l:iJ.' will the Honourable Member for Revenue please state if the matter has arrived 11,t ~ stage at which any useful communication can be ~~!),~e. ?,. If• so, _ :vyhat s.tage bas tb(l_ n:tatt.er reached ?- . - __ ,... .• " . _ _ _ , _ ~::·. 2Mr~ B~ H. Dobson: A .Re3olutwn on iiht-6UbJ~Ct.p~s€.d by the :Legislafave Council. on the 23rd_ of October 1926 has altearly been a-cC'epted and the Rules under the Arms Act modified aceorfilngly .-- · - ~ ,
As regards the Resolution regarding' total exem,ption 'of ,sworfurfrom the ,;.A.;rm1L Act; the matter is under discussion between: the· local Governm.ent :=and the-Goverfunent·of .India. _ : - - · · ." -- - -
- ExEMi>Ti:oN. oF - THE swoan - FROM ·rim oi>ER.itro"N -- ot -THE . ·A:a11-1s "Ac'i: - . ·" . t .:
Jiiisi Batai. r ..• *321. Lala Bo~ Raj : Wit.h reference to reply-to unstarred ques J;ion No. 61,Swill the Honourable Member. fo~ Revenue please state' 'the result ,of the reference made to the local officer on the question of Jinsi Batai} :'
2Mr. C. A. H. Townsend : Reportsbave been received from the ,:Oepl'!-ty· Commissioner, Dera Ghazi Khan, and the Commissioner, Multan, -and the ·matter is now under consideration of Government. The :tnatte1..-is exceptionally complicated and.now Government will endeavour to e:i_pediw. a ,fuial decision, _ . -·,. r; · - . .,, - .
'. . 2Mr. C~ A~ H. Townsend: The mattor is sf-ill under the· consider -ation of Government,
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*320~ Lala &db Raj: Will the Honourable .Member for Re~enu.e -please state with reference to reply to part (h) of unstarred question No. 601 :Te grant of proprietary rights in the lands occupied by shop-keepers in Lyalli ,J)Ur; whether any action has been taken hy the Government on the reply of
·the Commissioner ? ' - - · - · · - - - _:- - . ~ .
. GRANT OF :PROPRIETARY RIGHTS. IN Ly ALLI'UR, .
... TUITION" FEE •.
_ _ _ _ *319. Shaikh Faiz Muham1~ai': Will the, Honourable- Minister for · tEducation _be pleased to sta-te: whether Government proposes t9 accept th_e ~ecommertdation of the local authorities of Jhang regarding the·-.x~misaion of .tuition fe.ef! in case of the children of the newly reclaimed criminal, tribe
-ot Noor Mabram Blo~hes_ ? _ _ · - · The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The matter rs under consider- .ation . - - -- · -----
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. TERMI AL ir A.."C. . . •m. Lal~ Bodh Raj: W h ~eference to: in tarr qu stion
9. 64,1 will the Honourable Minister or Local Self-Governm nt p e see quite· . -,:.> Jh~ Multan Committee why e proposals for the t rmi I tax have . ~: ·b~en re-submitted and by what ate they are likely to e s itt d ? ..
,the Hon~~able Malik _Fir z ~~., Noon =i' re. CATTLE SLAUGHT R A~ TUHANA. I
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· *324. Lala Bodh Raj : Wit . reference to the re ly t e tion No. 70,2 will the Honourab Mi:µister for Ag:iicult e pl
t e enquiries have been made, and if so, wi,th what restil.tB ? . . .. The Honourable Sarar Jog cir~ Singh : jj:nq · ries
a. aand the result 1s laid on the ta le. • I i ! I I . --ie---! • I I ..
ANSWER TO QUESTIO N~. 70 (UNsTi~R D). . ' I ' -
. · (a) About 100 cattle mostly K tl,as ~re slaughtered] e ery cl ing· t e four winter months. ! , 1 '
(b) No. .; ', :, I
AnMs LIOE~s;i;:s. i I i. · *325;. Lada Bodh Raj : · Will the [Honourable ¥0:m er i j!
p. ). 'e·state if it is a: fact that the' arm . licerisbs of more lttja ten . ··~·of' Kot A:du in the Muzaffarga h Distriet have b~eq ether
n: t renewed ? If so, what are the asoiis ? 11 1
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.. ·• Will the Honourable Member pl ase ~tate the number o M .(). · . : ~-place whose licenses have bee either forfeited ~r i n t r -t , t.ittent year ?- - · .. · r ' I I ~· · I , I , · , ...
· •Mr. B. H. Dobson : The ho ourable member! ·fiee · g ' " a· g6et. · t in the .places m .. en_ tion. ed. in his.· · qu~stioils discriµiµi tion sse on-
• ion to tl},e projudice oft:h,e Hin u i~ apprehended.] . he res and· f ct he wants are not available and: have to b~ coll t , but the· h n nrable member be.s not suggest d on what basis I he e.nt the. ssue- : '11 .. 'fises to b~--re~lated~ i I l . · . · . :-,iLtti':iilNS:ES "ttNDE Tim AnM~ AoTJ I
*326. Lala Bodh 1lai : Will . he 1fonourable i{tehi ~r f .. ? .. _state nwnbe~ ?f li?~.es ~do~ the ~s Act gtapte.· d. t~ t v ous eomm.umt1es m the: distri t of ~fozaffargarh [acco
t s for the year t926 ? . - i ! i . s'•·Mr~B~ H.Jl>obiillM:' The .hon uraijle member seelllS to' ~ .. 0fit that.
• ~pboobs ineritionoo in b.'is<questi discrimination: bils d on ' eligi n, fu. · t e 'rejudice of the Hindus is e.ppreh nded. The figo.r~s. : · iac he· ants.
ot-av.a.il0.ble-a.nd.-have to be , butthe hon le- mbe ,baa,. ~- t .. ~gested ,011 w~t bas~ he w~nts be ~sue of Jic~nl!e~:~<i .. ,. -led · -:.-: --:- •• '"" - ·:- ¥ •• , •• ·--- . - - i. . I I
PUNJAB. LEGI'8LA IVE COUNCIL. [ 9TH ULY 1927 •.
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1vol X-A. page 574. ·: ' . - li Vicl.e foot note 2 at page 833 ante. •-Vol-.-X--A, "ptge 574. .
- *328. Lala Bodh Raj : With reference to part {b)_(>f ~tarred riguestion No. 177,3 will the Honourable Minister for Local S~lf-Govep:qn.~:o.j; ':;i>teas~considor the advisahilit'.y o; enquiring from the Comntjtt~e COI;t¢,er:r;t~a the cases referred to and looking .into them? - _ . - " -~
.; _ "'. - _The Honont~ble Malik Firoz- Khan, Noon : As alre,ady -intimated ,in the reply given to part;(b) of-question No. 177, Government will beg~ '~b Iookinto cases which may be brought to their notice, but. they a;e ?~
;preparedto make any enquiry until specific cases are. reported to thexp.· · . . -
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SMALL ToWN COMMITTEE os JARANWALA.
PETIT10Ns oi' "XPJ.>E.!LS AND-REVIsioNs IN 'rRE floURT .. oF COM· _cc;...: ·- .)IISSlON~, MuLT~ll<· c, c -
-~uesiif ~l~~,1~~~!~~~~~~t~t;~:ii;;~l,B~;:9~n.~~~9a (~) .if ~~e n,e~s~a,ry infopnation has 1}e~11 qo]J~t,e,d,; (b) how ~far the matter raised has been exainibed and with what
results ? · " · - ~ c -
- . ': ~i9 Will ~a.Honourable Member please lay on the{able the sai~ ~e~~S· ·~ry iliformation ? · ·. - · ·~
2Mr. C. A. H. Townsend : (i) (a) and (b). The enquiries·.1:l!sj9 ·.iJiio-.. - ,mcl,ure are complete. Notices of dates of. hearing of appeals .oi 3,pJ:!licati9.µs ior revisions are not usually given byCommissioners to petitioners when).W-
· pig .suc.-h app()als or revisions. So fat as executive appeals and .app4®tions ior revision are concerned, it is unnecessary under the law to SlllIUllOn tbe pe, ·.titioners in person, unlessthis course is thought desirable. In tJ.:ielatt1Jr1~vent, ~1Jind in th6 case of judiciaLappeals,the petitioners are su~oned as soon ll.S possible, due regard being ha.d to the exigencies of Commissroners' other
: work, and tho petitioners" 'convenience, which is consulted so far as. pQa$J.blt ,No specific procedure has been laid down by. Government but the procedure Lfollowed in thtt various Divisions.is similar and is also similar' to that follow :ed in the Court of the Financial Commissioners. - Government does nofsoo ,any reason to direct a change. ·"--,-r
- Up, to date figures of. cases of revenue appeals and applications for revi .sion. pending over 6 months have been furnished by four Commissioners. ·,Only one such was pending over 6 months with one Commissioner and )5 · wjth, anoth~r. - . Of then , however, many had been heard. and were ~<JJJ~~ -J~r special reasons .. As t? the remaining Division upto date figQres are being ,·(il;>tained and will be communicated to the honourable member as, soon as they are received. . .- . - -- . - - - - ::-
( ii} The replies givon to the two parts ofthe question reIJ:d~r-t~s u~~ \nece_ssary. ·
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. . . . . lRRIGATIO IN MULTAN. i : ~;" *330. Lala. Bodh Raj : - (a) ith lrere~ence to t-e~l. 10 No.-166,8 asked on 21st Marc l9~7, will the :a:;oqo
enne please state the result of is re{erbrice to loc~l 1o .cers? _ :.
·· (b) Will he please state furthe if h~ intends to ~a~l3 • any eps or lqe e isation of as~urance referred t? in p~r~ (a) and f1r !re o:vi the griei:·· n es of the zamindars referred to 1 part (~) of the said qu stio ? '·
. . _ I ; • I I < , . SMr. J. B~ G. Smith : The onourablo mem~e11 i ref r ed o the< ·· e ly to Council Question No. 166 copy enclosed), apd i is r . ett that.
h question is not. so well u~dersto d as;o .admit of ar~ other r.· ly.
ANSWER TO Q ES·.tION No. 166. i . I I :
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: ! ~a) Yes .. ed to has been seen. 'the poss bilitty- of giving a pere · al ·i · . ai from the Lower Bari Doab ~ana~ was carefully ex min Il. .had to be given up as impractic ble. i i I -··• · ._- .. , .: ·. I i I I . .'•
·-• '\ .J\rhe·alternative scheme of feedi g tqe Sidhnai untler t · e H eli ojeot sub~tted. ~o .the Government f_ I~dia in 1915 iut as ~ eive ba~k netioned with the remark tha it ~hould be he~d .o · er t 1 the Sutlej
ey: Project: w~s complete. This s heme is now being :re- xa ed a d will eady for sanction by the time t e Supej Valley Projec is e pie e. - .· ·(b) Complairits when received e 4ealt with onJ the" .
1 Vol. .X-A. page 5 \: • f'ide foot note 11 a • V cl. X-A. page 5
: i
I
I I· . '· [ 9TH ULY 192T..
· sA£1i .OF .LAND TO · S DAl\ KIRP AL siJ11~. . I i -
*329. Lala Bodh Raj : w· the tB:onourable Mein er fo _ ~ .. r~ference to reply to starred uestion No.1651 iaske on 1st . a.roh, .i_. r! please sta.teJf the nec_essaiy i orrpation asked ifor - as- . Ii r .. eive,1;1-
. the looal officers? If so, will h please lay it on WeJta. le·? · - · ·· ·· i . 1Mr. c, A. S.Townsend: T ho1ourable me~bfli s're( el ·o·the-
0f given to 11tarled question No. 65' !I}, copy of w~cli is laid the table;. ANSWER TOQUE TiqN( No. *165.\ I
C: The Honourable Mian Sir F -i~Husain: (~) ;Fi e a land' d oining a. garden he had planted w re spld to S. KirJ!lal S ngh N<_>.!
15 L., Tahsil _Khanewal, in ace rda*e with the ~e*e 1 .or rs ~ Gov ... ent for the disposal of BU.Ch. Sill ll plpts. ~Ii offe.1 ~f . hig 0 pn 0 was
.. -~;by another person aft 1r the s· le to S, Kirpal S1p.gh had een sane• • · e&. · · I : 1 1 .· · •
-: . '0 · (b) The onlyneighbouring .gran a, oi1e 1Bishan SinkW w s no _ ~ .. e_S.- ~· 0., as his offer ha~ alrea y bf~ made. I j -. _
· Nothing was suppressed m the . p.10 s recommendet on. ·(c) S. Bishan Singh made an a plication to the DJp ty C mis ionei.
: nt~~Sl~tct ten days after the lat er hrd:sanctione1 tte •ale.
: · (e) Yes, mutation has been off etedjin' favour oflS1 • pal .• U: stion of any action by Govern ent arises as the~e V bee
· enue. , . , ,, ! , I ! I
; r,a. 1 Vol. X-A, pa.ge 556. -_
- . .
WAGES :FOB PRISONER!3.
_ *334. Lala Bodh Raj: (a) .wm the Honourable Member for Finance.' please state :-
- (i) if, under the rules, a - prisoner is 'allowed to- earn Re. 1-4~0 per lllensem as his wages ; - .
(ii) if it is a fact that Sundays, other holidays and the-days when, the prisoner is sick .are not allowed to the -prisoner in .the, calculation of wages ; if ~o,why ? · ·
APPLICATIONS ,OF PRIMARY SOHOOL . TEACHERS.
*333. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable Minister for Educa tion please state if it is a fact that several applications of primary school\ teachers have been pending for disposal with the Deputy Commissioner;,_:'. Hissar ? If so, - since how long ? Wha.t are the reasons for their non-dis- t posal up till now.? _ · -
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : _ Government has no inform ation on the subject which is under the controi"of the local.authority. -
MUNICIPAL CoM:MITTEE, BmwANI.
*332. Lala Bodh Raj: WiU the· Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government · please state if it is. a fact that - the - 'I'ahsildar, Bhiwani, has been asked to report on several files connected with the municipal commit tee of the place and if so under what provision of the Municiapl Act or - any other law he has been asked to do so? ·
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : :The Ta.hsildar of Bhiwanf ' has been asked on one or two occasions to report the value of municipal land." which had been encroached upon and in. one case a 'municipal file was: forwarded to him for verification of certain facts alleged by certain people agai.nst whom the Municipal Committee was contemplating action for . ..:
·encroachment. The cases were sent to the Tahsildar by the Deputy Com-. missioner, and it is not clear why it is considered that statutory authority~, was necessary for such proceedings.· If, however, it was necessary, section 231, of the Punjab Municipal Act, 1911, would appear to confersufficient: authority. . . '•
• MussAMJdAT LAOHHYA, PBrsoNEB IN_ LAHORE FEMALE JAIL. *331. Lala Bodh Raj : With reference to the reply to starred ques- _
tion No. 168? asked on 21st March I 927, will the Honourable Member Ior' ~ . ~inance please state if the necessary information asked for has been received?" ,
If so, will he please lay it on the table? · -- Will-he please also state what action has been taken against the pffi.cials-
responsible '} - - · - .. _ -- The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: Will the honour-y,
able member pleaserefer to the answer given to starred question No. 1681_ 2?
S-»ARBED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.·
' '
- I ! '
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNOIL. [!I$'.£ Ju
'. ·L odh Raj. J 1 I !
. ( ~ Will the Honourable Member pleitse state the1 ilig . ar_n. Et· y ariy prisoner.in Lahore Centr l Jail? ! :
~.,_(} Will. t}:ie Honourable l\feD1l}er p eltsei state if the~e i~. ny i an the jails in the province who ha earited the full wtg,s ,.fJte · . - Honourable Sir '4pffrey d Mo11tmorency: I(~·) (i} :
( 'i) If a prisoner completes his ful tas&: on all the wotki g d ont , he can earn .Bs. 1-4-0 irrespect've <;>f Sundays or ho "day
~ system applies to work act lly 1performed, and s do elu e ayment for days spent on Jh.e.J! ck list, i i
( ) Rs. 1-1-5. . ! : ;
( ) There are ,suc"h prisoners. . i . . I· 1.. _ ..
. . " . .: . ··.. . Lrsr OF PR. soN,ns. I j ..
• Lala BodhRaj: (a) Will th Honourable Merber for p eas s ate if it is a fact that lists of pri ner$ are req uired tb · e su .
, I to the office of Inspector-Gen al df Prisons for! ri issio bein ; ow d o them by the Inspector-Gener I? ilf so, on wh~t id th · •·ts t e submitted? • ! !
-. ! I I
( ) jll he please state_ the date on" hichjt~e last return iw s sul om h Lahore Central Jail? 1 • I j . ·. ill he .plea.s estate the names of sue~ ja.ils t.he autb. ..riftJies o
bmit the returns on due dates in any bf the years si]nqe 921 · 1
Honourable Sir Geoffrey e~ontmorency; : ' ( ) N equired. I I
. I nd (c) do not arise. I . I i
• ! : I i lNhijioTORS OF. ~f H OLS
. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Wil the Honourable ~1tus er f r Edu l c .tiQn b pleased tostate whether Assiste, t Deputy Insp¢c~or of hool '.'J.
e n posted as Personal Assistauts o D~puty Inspecfo~s f Sc 1 ols • .1:1 tis_ the justification for creating ( is nt,v post ~1 I i e Honourable Mr. Manohar al : !The answer i~ iii t
--- ! I! I I ! RESOLUTIONS OF THE PUNJA ZiMINDAR LE.AIGb"E
Chaudhri Afzal Haq rwm the i Financial Go i er b o state :- · · i · i i
a whether the attention of the overnmont has :bden invi' t I . · the resolutions passed in th. mee~ing of the Pp~Jija Za
League that came off on 13t l Ap~l J 927 at Ajn~sa ; b) whether the resolutions are rece ving the attentio, qf the G 'ern·
ment? i i ; c. A~ B. Townsend : (a) Yes. i . I i
" ~b) ill the honourable member ple se stat~ to whicti p.ar ieul re- - · . ' I ti e refers ? · . . I j ;
; i I !
1.Vol .. X-,A, PM~. :}.~!f-70.
:MUNICIPAL'. CbMMl'fTEES .AND . SMALL . TOW.NS. -
_ *340 •. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the <Honourable Minister for ;~cal;',elf.:Go:vernrilent ~e pleased to state:- - ._ .
- (a) the names of the municipal committees and small towns where _ the Hindus inspite of mnjority of population are inadequately
.. . - represented ; . . - _ · · (b} the names of those municipal committees and small towns on
which - Muhammadans have not got seats according to their population ; -
_ H<>NORARY MAGJSTJUT_Es AND QotrNCIL Et~CTIONS.
_ _ *339. ·Chau:dhrj. Afzal· H~q : _ (a.) Will the Honourable ', Finance _ Member-be pleased to state if the attention of the Government has b1:1ei;i
:w.yjte<l .to the resolution of the Punjab Zamindar League requesting'th-e Gqvernrnent _ to- prohibit the Honorary Magistrates from taking part in
· the Council elections and- standing as candidates 'l -- . . - . _ -, (b) If so, will the ·Honourable Member for .Finance be pleaser" to sia,te
:if)he Government is considering the advisability of taking necessary steps -t~tprohibit the Honorary Magistrates from taking any. part in Punjab elec-
- tioris and offering themselves as candidates. in elections ?_ _ , · 'l'be .Ho11ourable Sir Geoffrey . deMontmorency : (a) Yes.
>(b) The honourable member is referred to my reply to question No. 108,1 part (q}._ Government is not at present prepared to issue any more strinf ent orders in regard to participation in elections by Honorary Magistrales,and -does not propose to forbid any person-qualified under rule from standing ,as _a candidate for election to.the Legislative Council.
RESOLUTIONS Ob' TIBBIA CONFERENCE. - -
7: '-· *338. Cha~dhri Afzal Haq- : wm the .. Honourable Minister for . -);_i_ocal-S~li-Government · be pleased to state :~ · _ - · _
(a) whether the attention of the Government has -been invitedto ,We resolutions passed in the different meetings of- 'libbia Coiifei:· ence that havebeen held in the different parts of the pro:v.fnce;
~.,:., .. (b} the steps, if.a-rir' taken on these- resolutions ? . .. The Honourable-Malik Firoz -Kh~, Noon: (a). Yes. '}, (b) .The ·tnatter is still under consideration . . -
Cbaud)ui AfzalHaq : I refer to the seven or eight resclutions wfil,c.h -w~e passed on the 18th of April. Some were to the effect that Honorary
-Jtfugis·trl!;tes.should not st.amLas candidates .for election, some were regarding - ilhe police' depQI"t,ment and s9me :others. . - : - ·· _ _ ::·;,:: - ~. c~'A~ ~! Towniaend : Ma~y of thematters to which the honourable . member referred- do not concern the Honourable Member for Revenue.
·~ I suggest to the hononrable member that he should. send in .det.itiled ~ ~1testions pointing out_t he exact points on which he requires a reply. ~ . '- ---·
839 .STARRED . 9UJi1BTIO,NB . AND. A.NSWE:l;'tf:l. -
!
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OUNOIL. [ f9~H JUL
al Ha_q.] ; I i { ). whether the Government is onsidering' the a~vis;bilit
arranging the wards in sue a wa. y or. devisin$. me .. ns. b seats may be insured for he members of the ario
_ . munities according to thei numerical stren&tli 'l · Honourable Malik Firoz Kh n, Noon: (a) an~ ( ). not consider that the value of he resitlt would be! e mm labour that would be involved i collecting the inform tio
s .t e onourable member. : 1
( ) Government always make eve effort to meet! the just f all c mmunities in the matter of th ir representatiof on ocal
th onourable member will- bring t my: notice any pairt cul sma · t .wn o m. unic.1· .. pah.·ty -. - where. adjustm. en of ~ea•• ts is calle:.d j .. f:ol .' I all leas d o look into the matter. · : 1 i :
. - i : i i- . udhri Afzal Haq : What abo t the Kartarpur I M ieip 1
! . 1 • I
Honourable Malik Firoz Kha , Noon : I should ;re nire q e tion on that, please. I I
I I
I
t : . Chaudhri Afzal Haq : HonourablJ
a S If-Government be pleased to sta e :--+ I !
( ) whether the hasiat tax officer n District Board i A itsa , is e .... powered to search the hons s for assessing the ha iat t
( ) whether he is provided with a y a~med force; ! !
( ) whether the · Honourable Mi sterls attention ~is een to an editorial note that ap*eared in " l( akil " A dated the 30th March 19 7, under the head~n event in Wadala-Verm (di trictj Amritsar);" I l
( ) if so, whether he called for ny explanation from the Board, Amritsar? ' i .
Honourable.Malik Firoz Kh u, ~oon: (a), (b),' !(c) and • N ~ --- i Ii,
I 1 ,
D. B. Hl:GH CHOqLS. I : Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Wil thej Honourable ~fini ter f Ed
e pleased to state :- I ( ) whether it is a fact that city hr d young men are ge4er lly
ed as teachers in the dist ict board high schoo s in those agriculturist young teachers who Ha"\j-e sym inclination towards the rur J population ; I i
Ci) whether theMinistry of Edu ation have very ~ec'.en ly i structions or propose to cl so ~o the Inspectors f Sc ols o, the effect that while appoi ting the teachers iu listri t boa d. high schools preference sh d be given to agriou turis ?
' -: 1
h Honourable Mr. Manohar I: 1 ; •
( ~ Government has no informati n tbat this i·s th~ f~ • (i - No.
. --.::.. -~ :;.-
1 Vida foot n~te 2 ~t p~e 833 ante. : I Vol; X~A.-·pagel74.
- ' ' "/
- ..,_ -,_,_ ._.i·;
-F . __ :
_ :_:·.::· ~~- ,:.-,:, :'.-~_-.=_ - .Mt.&D~-:Craik·: ~{afAs has been stated iJi'ieply to·a previon~cq~~·0 ·::
· - . · ;_-.:- ~ -, :: ti:on~:it'. is·not' tlie _practice _9f Governnumt·to give the .names of ijs ·o:ffi.Q0lS -::·_ .. ;
;;iit'JTt~~;:;·Q~~ ~q,m~®· h,;1 .~I;.i·g..n£oa-· • ~~;·~.r. ,; . ·.· :hi~cretenti<>P:: de~~bI:e jn" tli,e publie: interest during the intr,oihiiJtrori<'<>f,t]J.e-·
. ~ental-tJO~eme ·for am~lgama.ting ·the subordu,late~:revenue !illdc,.<lim:~· -. ' ~~blishments. · He has· now been transfei:r~d to anqth~r district. ·/, . ·. = · .. ·-··
I
I 1
1>\'ol. X-A, p'.l.ge 33. :yc,1. ;:AA, {>a_g_e __ a318. _ a Vo. , - , page , .
RE~ORGANISATION OF HE $ENATFl.
udbri Afzal Haq·= Will t e Honourable pleased to state :- - · ,
1
ether the Government has recsiv d a~y reply fro::;qj the UniYersity reg¥ding tlt~ ;re-orgit. iga,t~on of the Seilate - ot, the causes of its delay ? ! / j
-- ourable .Mr », Manoht1r Lal : a) *o. I i is important matt~r is still under c nsideration. i
! 1
PUNJAl3' -LEGISLATIVE
~-·.it-· .• ·-·
I l '
[19T:a,J LY ! '
i ' ' :_ I ,
ether Government proposes to 'tint~h~ the record df xpan • £ure by Oo;.operative Societies benevolent institi~ti rill; - - - 1- i I · (b) if ntlt, the reason3 for not doin~ th ; !
1 I
(c) w ether the - .Government invited the! opinion of ied-o erat a officers in 'this respect ? - ' - l i -
! I oourable Sardar_ Jogendra s; gh ; (a) No. I I
eca11sethe information would no be of any apparent iva ue, e 'Regi \stra_ r_ wa:s asked whether he ~tatistics wer~ ,-· ai tain , and r_eplied ixi:th8 negative. J - I ,
, I ! i
IARPUR, re. CERTAIN I l i
J.AGGAT RAM, si>N o:r: Dfr-"fa MM.t.. "'352. Chaud.hri Afzal Haq : Will · tli e Ht>h6u.ta'b'Ie · the Fio'.ii:fioo,.
)[ember be pleased to state ;.....;c. -
- {a) tlie iiaiiie of_ifie' proviAces. and, AfJ~e_:_jajl where Jaggat Ratl4. ' -- s'o'n df Ditti-fMaU cl Hariana, dii~6t Rosniarpui, is i}onfioed ;
M *'.ii~th~t he "\W,8- given 1s n;ioi;i.ths' r_t:illlissioi:i.:wliioh 'was given on, . t}Je eonelusion ofpeace .t'erms in the y~r t~fa ; ..
. :Cci:~lienhe1will tliel~as~'} . fie Ho~ourahle Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: {tt)· Ju:blmlp()fe-
Jail in the Central Prorinces .. -- .. -------_- --~------- ---------·--·-- ----·----,---------~-- . . °') Yes. (c) ']he question of his releass ~rt ·ta ~'onsidered about the mid<Ue. ot
11ext year.
JAGGAT RAM, SON OF' DITTA MAL.
_ . *351. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable Finance Member be pleasedt o state s-«
(a). whether it is a fact that Jaggat Ram, son of Ditta Mal, is Wlder,., going his term of imprisonment in a jail of another provinee ;
(b) whether any report of bis illness has been. received by the Govern- ment.:
(c) whether it is a fact that he has been constantly ill ; (d) · whether it is a fact that he is very much reduced ; _ _ (e) whether the Government propose to put Jaggat Ram in ariy of:
the jails of this_ province ; · - · (f) if the answer to part (e) above is'in the negative·, wilrtho IIon:6ur1tbfo_.
Member be pleased to state thereasons for not domg so ? Tb,vH011ouiable Si.r' Geoffrey deMdntinoreucy : -(a) 'Y'~s. (b) He is reported to have su.ffefed ho~ dysentery·ori ~asions. (c) and (d) No. --- - (e) No •
. Cf) The serious naturo of his offence.
MASTER MOTA SINGH . .,. *350~ Cb.audliri . Afzal ·.-Haq.: Will . the Honourable the Financct
Membei be pleased to state ;-'- -(a) whether the Government received any report .regarding the state
ment of health of Master Mota Singh who is undergoing-bis. term . of imprisonment in a jail oj .another province ? . ·
(b) the term of his imprisonment and the date on which he will Q~· . released ? - . '.
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontm.oren~y : (a)He has recently, suffered.from pyc1:hea and is being su pplied with a set of dentures. _ -
(b) 'Ilransportation for 5 years and rigorous imprisonment for 2 years.: and 6 months. Heis due for release approximately on the 20th August 192~ •.
84~ STARRED QUESTIONS AND A!>fSWERS.
! i.
: i
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE CO NCJL. [ 19Tljl ~U,Y ' i i
ARTILLERY PRAOTIOE IN i1nna KANDI. J l r-4".L I I
"'35 . Chaudhri Afzal Haq: With r ere~oe to my qu~iio No ta.rr d) put on· 28th February 1927, will he Honourable ~aho Me
e leas d to state whether the Governme t has received any re ly t e :Mili a authorities with respect to ar llery practices inl i'taq Ka
08 • n · district. • i l The . onourahle Sir Geoffrey de ontinorency : .I r:dhe ans er onn il question No. 2 is laid oil. the t ble, ! Governmsnf has not et
e · d of th decision arrived at regarding th proposals made ti> the mili ry ut , ori · s · As . soon as the decision is k own, the hon'luraf?le me . er
; illlbe int ed. I I! I i
- • I I i .· . i j j
· .NSWER ro QUESTION No. 2 (1N~TARREI) i
.onour~ble' ·~U' ~eoffrey de on~orency .= I ~q) A.1:ti ery ere carried out durmg Decembe 192f m the triangle f rme by
e Ho · rpur-Kangra Road, the Siwali R&nge, and th~ ;EI shia ur- ' Jn R~ d in the .Hoshiarpur District. i . j ! -t . - (b) N . The movements of the inha itants. of severa] vill ges
es riot d om 10 A. M. to 3-30 P. M. and ometimes a little)ater ; th ~c 1~ 'd not in all cases amount ~o c nfinement, The ru~g stio ~ d m h words." Loekedup "used m th . ho~ourable menfbrr'. que
~ ~1 corr e . 1
; ,
. . e Artillery practices lasted for s veral days, and ~b~ r st~i eferred o asted while the practices continu d. ! . i i .. • ·---· . '" -· - - - - -- - . - - - . . - . . . . . ' l !
(d). T_ ~~Deputy. Commissioner has air ady] considered tli~ atte os t at the 1\filitary Authox;ities be re ues~e~ not to U!Je!tlµs a!t· ar
e for r ~Ier!p_ra~tfo~(fo~ at ~eas~-!wo y ars, 1 . I ·j· • ' ! I l.
I I I I I
CoRRUPTIO ! , . . . J , ...
. * . . . Chaudhri Afzal Haq :.With r f~re~ce to my q~es~ir N_ . 189 ·• s. t . rr~d. ut on the 2~t·h.:: J)'ep.J:l!a . .ry 1§),27, . t•he Honoura~lei. t e Fi nee
e be b .pleased to state:- , I I 1 . · · ;
:~ X:<,: ( ) h~tlierit 18 not a f~ct, that :in S ite of the mea~~rts ~a '. en t'he .. gazetted officers as stated in he abswer, the cdrrµp pra
,:ri_,·? .': :· . in tahsils and.'district headqu rters continue to ~xist; ' _" :: .. ( ) if_ 80? what other. measuree Gov ~e:nt proposes t~ i~ e_to
c, .. · . , .. t1vely st,?p these corrupt pra 10e~? · .. -. I T · ' Th onourable Sir Geoffrey deM ntn!aorency : I l }ta e no
O dd O he reply given to the honourab e member's question fth uet,p" ·ast:::· :::::a:···:~··,· . :·.1: ·l.i' 's
lVol. X-A. page , : , , ~Vol; X-~,.J>e.ge , s-:
~-
· Nazrana.. *356. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : With reference to my question No. -10~
{starred) put on 28th February 1927, willthe Honourable the Finance Member be, pleased to state :- - : - . - (a) whethe/the Government is aware of the fact-that when Deputy
· · Commissioners go on tour the za_ildars and lambardars not ohly offer them one rupee as nasar, but are also made to offer sugar (',?'.1•0,•') by way of naerana ;
r · __ - _ (b) wheth-er the Government favours both of these ancient customs ; . (c)-:if not, whether the Government now proposes to issue a ci;cµlar
prohibiting these practices ? . · . - -.- :: ::- · -The ,Hon<Oirabl~- Sir .Geoffrey deMqntmorency-: _ (a) Government
:iJnderstands that-in some district's an offering of sugar is sometimes-tendered and remitted. .Government has no reason at all .to believe that there is: any compulsion on the subject, and it is entirely _optional for those concerned to practise the custom or- not. _
(b) _and-{o). Govsrnment.eonaequently sees no reason _to issue ,1;1,.ci:rcular forbidding .this ancient custom, · _ _ _ -.
Chaud.Jiri AfzalHaq : . Will Government please say whether , they w:ill ta-ke:the opinion of zaildars and Iambardars of.three districts at least as
· to whether they like the custom of offering sugar and nazar? - - . The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) Government
·· sees no reason to make any special enquiry. There. is no compulsion about --these ·offerings. ; If; tl;tey: do not wish to :µi_ake ~hem,-_ they can discontinue
- doing so. - - - · ; - , · ' __ · -. ·· : __ -; _ : _
r - '. '-_ Raitada Hw lJaHUrd~) _- ~Is there any proposal. that . members e>fth'e · Council should also offer sugar and nazra11a to the Honourable the Presi . dent in this Council 'l
, DEOORATIONS OF TAHSIL BUILDINGS,
"'355. Chaudhri Afial Haq: Will the Financial Commissioner be J>leased to state :- . .
(a) whet!:fer it is not a fact that when Deputy Commissioners go on tour to tahsil headquarters, tahaildars decorate the tahsil buildings with phulkaris ; ·
(b) whether it is a fact that-these:phulkaris are collected from villages by zaildars and lambardars ; .
c - · • { c) if so, whether th;¢ Government will-issue any instructions prohibit- ing such decorations ? -
. - - . ~ :Mr. C. A. Barron : : (a) and (b). Government has no such information. . -
(c) Does not_arise. . Chau.niri Afzal·- Haq : Will Government now ask for the information ?
. . Mr; C. A~ Bi.,J,ron : Government is not =interested whejher iphulkari :fir~ hung in tahsil buildings or not. ·
STARRED QUESTIONS :A.ND ANSWERS•
PUNJAB PoLIOE CoMM1TTEE
ChaudhrlA&al llaq :· .' Will mb r e pleased to st~te whether the
a vistt · ty of publishing the full report of . . Honourable Sir Geofftey de
tive.
. President : Order, order. · . udhri Afzal·Haq: Will Gover ent please say vheler t.
sk. t e ail.dar.s and lam. bardars whether· here is any compuisio · or'n Honourable.·Sir Geoffrey eMontmorency 1: ove
sat sfisd that there is no compulsion.. They do not therefo e pr ke .h se enquiriesfrom zaildars and la bardars. '
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l>UNJA'B LEGISLATIVE CO~NCIL •
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• I PtrN'iAB PoL1fOE·Co11 '.llTE~ REPOR·T, i • Cliauclhri Atzal Haq. : Will th:& i Honouta h1e1 ·~ 11'111.-~1
)I mb r pleased to state :- ' I
' . (~ tne time the .dovemment will t .ke' ta eon&ider. ~}». fllrtlab Committee· Report ; ,
'b. _the causes oj: BQ_much_~ela.y_? ' ~---
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JAIL OFF OIAL~.
5 .. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will thJ Honourable t1 e em er be pleased to state :- • i
( ) whether the Government has n w examined the past. eeor jail officials ; • • .
the names of those whom the wish to remove ?] !
Honourable Sir Geoffrey de on~morency: j (a)lc0s. )· or the present it is proposed to bring under reduoti~n thre post
o jail with effect from the 1st Septa berl 1927· and nQtices hav ssu e. eor ·n _ly; their psnsionary' claims will e decided in accdrd;a e wt th p ovis o . of article 426 of the Civil Ser ice IR~gulations.: f ± n pro
· se t. ve names. 1
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AN ON THE RETURN OF SEVERAL Pu~JABIS li'ltOM t~RO D,
•:· Chaudhri Afzal Haq : With reference to my ponn il q ( t~ed); put on the 28th Febru . 1927, will the ! Bo onra
na,n ember be pleased to state whe · er the Government h ve c rres o dence with the· Government of ndia on the q_ue,;1~ion f Im b return of several Punjabis wh are 'now abroad ~ i
. ' ... : s. : ~ the HopourableMember be pleased to lay th~ co espo enc ·a :eta ::n~ :;n it be tiot possrl)le, willhe be p~e~sed to str,· t e.n r· es o
. . . . . Honourable Sit Geoffrey de o•orency : ~ ~·. a . . . · ad · · o my answer t<> the honourabl member's previ~>ns: 1mst n. no .. epared to lay any correspondene or t~ give· uames.' '
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BoAru;> os MEDICINE.
-_ :-~ :•3&1. Dr. Shaikh, Mubam1Dad Alam : Will the Honour~hle Mihiste,, ior ~ocal SalfsGoveminent be- pleased to state :-'- - ·
(a) if the Government is aware that- the United Province's Go-vern· · rrient . has. .establiahed a Government Board of Medicine
for affording-protection and promoting indigenous system of medicine; ·
-{b) it so, whether the Punjab Government -wm C()nsiqer the ques- ' ti?n of establishing a similar -Bo~rd h~r~ r: _.
(o) if the Government is aware that the Tibbi-classeii of the: Islamia. College have been converted into a college .and that a new
- 'Ayurvedic and Unani Hospital has been amalgamated with it; (d) if the Gov.efnment will consider the possibility of sanctioning a
substantial annual grant for maintaining a building for . the same? - · -··· - .. ·.
; ; "The Honourable Miillk' Firoz Khan, NOQD: (a/ and (c) Govern· ":ment 'have no inlormation. · ·
(b) and (d). A statement of the policy of Government with reference -to the indigenous systems of medicine •is being printed' arid- will be eireu J~ted to honourable members ofthe Council in a d?,y_,(>,r fi:w~.· . .. . .-
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The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: · The Punjwb Gov·· :ernment has already passed orders regarding a number of admiriistative measures which formed the subject of recommendations of the Punjab Pro vincial Police Committee. These orders are in most instances in the process
.of being embodied in a revised edition of the Punjab Police Rules. which is -about to be issued. It is proposed to lay the conclusions -of Government regarding the recommendations of the Committee relating to changes and
-additions in· the structure of the police force and its emoluments, which in· ,volve expenditure,. before - the Legislative Council' during the next session.
The reasons for delayhave been-
(i') the necessity of.eliciting public opinion on the report by publi· cation; ·
-. ;· - (ii) the necessity of obtaining departmental criticism, e.g., the views
oi _the -Oommissioasrs, Deputy Inspectors-General, "Deputy Commissioners and Superintendents of Police ;
(iii). the necessity of financial scrutiny and of re-easting the exact financial effect of the various proposals and: in many cases of
. alternative proposals. . · · -
(iv) the neeessity, in view of the re~ntr-ecurdµg remissions_;of pfo- ' vineial contributions, of forecastingth_e gen~aI future financial position before supplementary demands for considerable sums of reeqrring expenditure are laid bef ore: the legislature.
ST,Al\RED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
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Chaudhri Baldeo Singh [North West Rohtak(Non~Muharnmadan; Rural] (Urdu) : Sir, l beg to move the following resolution which stands in my name:-
.. This Council recommends to the Government _that in order to ameliorate the unhappy· plight of zamindars of Bohtak, Gurgaon and Hiasar districts living in tracts where canal or well irrigation is not practicable, total land .revenue of such tracts for one crop during the current yearbe remitted and a scheme for the construotdon of reservoir tanks to collect and hold _rs.in water for irrigating.
- their crops be sanctioned." - -. · - · · · ·
S_ir, the object of this resolution is to bring to the notice of the Govern, ment and this House the unhappy "plight of tho Hindu zamindars residing in.the Rohtak; Gurgaon and Hrssar districts, and to request the Government to lose no time in extending to these zamindars the concessions demanded by me on their behalf. The zainiudars of Hariana for want of irrigation faeili ties are labouring .under numerous diffleulties.. and it _is really a pity :~hat. whenever there is a scheme for the extension of irrigation to this part of the province some . kind of objection is raised against it. In the resolution moved by me only a ·very small concession has bee!l demanded by me OU-_ behalf of my constituents, but I regret to say that tnembets of the Council.
. ' are not. prepared to support 'even this and ar.e .of opinion that if this . conces- . 'sion.is to be granted at all it should .lie . granted to the zamindars /
' of . all the ,barani tracts 0£-_ the ptovinee._ The _ ainendment ,of -_ · 'which notice -, .has been given by a learned nember oL.tbis- Council
_ points: to _this.. . In this connection ·- ram reminded ofa stoey which is- · current in our parts." A certain jat became very indigent.. His people. advised him to take up the profession of begging if he· could not. earn his livelihood otherwise. The jat · promised _ to - act up - to t}1is advice .. , .He got hold · of a bamboo stick to' which he tied an earthen pot and followed in th_e wake of a mendicant (jogi). Whenever · the mendicant got anything:' in the 'shape of .'alms, the jat pushed forward _the>~.~hen _pot and cried that he should receive his share first. Similar is the case with the gentleman . who has given notice ofan amendment to this_ resolution. I was begging alms for the Hindu zamindars of the Bohtak, 'Hissar and Gurgaon districts; but he wants to share my a1:ms and· desires-th11,t the concession demanded by me should be given to zamindars of the whole province. By putting, for ward this amendment the honourablegentleman probably means thanthe resolution should he withdrawn.. ·
- In this Gouncil the Bhakta dam scheme has twice been brought forward: for discussion and if this dam had been constructed the condition of the people of Hariana would: have been ameliorated but it is a pity that every time soma sort of technical objection. has been raised aga~st its construction •. and the objection.to which most weight is b(:j_hig attached is _that even Raj. Bahib Ohaudhri Cbhottu Ram.thinkst hat the scheme should be taken in hand afte:r the Thal Projtlct-h.as_watured. This objection if I may be allowed to do sc, may be likened to the proverbial tyi.pg of the cat around the neck of the camel; It if said that once upon a time a certain person lost'his . camel. He vowedto his goddess that if his camel was found hewould sellit for five rupees' and give away the proceeds in charity. When the thie-v:es heard.of
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RESOLU'UON RE .REMISSION OF LAND REVENUE IN CERTAIN.TRACTS OF. -.- THFl -RomAK, GunoAo"N ~N.o IIrssAR DISTRICTS. · -
- , RESOLUTIONS.
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(19~H JUL 192 PUNJAB LEGlSLATIV COUNCIL. deo Singh.]
,l\,f~LV'.tl9~ $E ~VISIO~. O~' -~~D ,,ij.V,.§~l;l:,; ~ ~~~:(N TRA.OT3 011' tlfil . . ROHTAK, GURGAON AND mes.AR DlBWOT!:l •
. ,~: tf~h4iw oi t~. p.ecmli:;. whQ @:«er ~QPl w.at~:l~.ggi,qg iA w~ ·p~fl qf,
.t!ia. ~o~et . ':Vb~ plig\!t is_ 110 l~_iJs ij~riMa t~ is, tMt of tqe r.~.lfen~- ,~~.~ft WStJi~ts, W~9~ tl\<l \QnOW\\~M) me:m~R ~f~ t.9, . -. , _. :·.: · : ~e: ~QCept~% qf tp,~ ;e.s(i)j~1.9.~ WQ~ en~~~ llI>fil3~. t.h.e p.ro~~ll\ : ti:,.. Jl. • '. · ~dg~t i~q it wQ.ll.ld ~·-~µli}J ~ to. ~li~ ;i;-e~~
dents of other poor dist:nots · ol $he, IWQY.UlOQ, ·~ ·
,~~fi~Jig~!II K8!J.1:~~ t.lill~ J,h~~~· - ~~ a.~~.~~~~ ,\~: 1$~ttl~W.~Rtt {)ffioen ~~C?~~d ~t tlle. l!l!i;it · ~l;ltt,lem~~ _o,A t\e. lfistu.o~J XA~P,,~ bf th~ q~o~~~~ mover were verycafofully worked 011\: ~~ .. ~1!. !w.~ ~t~erispeak with personal. knowledge, ·as J·· was oneof them myself.· - On two large assessment circles, at any rate; . of. the. district. I essessed; the assessment imposed by me w~Jqwer tn~n t40it which I f~~:Q.d 41, f()rCfl m tAA~· I loio:w .·(L}l 01:lic.e,;s have every syinp.a.thy w:it,h the :i;eside~ts pj ~iqn,ijrsi,ct_s. •. Th~ \o.nouri,,b.w · member referred with considerable force to. th~ war services of the Bohtak district. · l do not desire in any way to minirg.i~_t30Jhose services, .but I would remind that other districts in the province also ren,dere~ good service during the
. \var. What about Jhelum and the Kharian Tahsil of Guj!at dist~(!t .as t.~ 'which the Deputy· Oommissioner wrote that every young man· o~n attaining
· :maturity joined the-army at once as a ~aitter"of ~ow;se. .A,riot4er point which - I wish to submit is that' the residentsof the ~gliited tracts of the districts .·
-. i¥ question are no doubt poor, but the 8iVerag~ ~~dil\g ·iA those districts_, · , p.,µ-ticulatly in :gissar; is greater in. sise th~ tlw a\'.e,rag.e Punjab holding~·
:tn the poorer parts of Hissar tl;\eholdings run to 80; ~O evetj 50 acres a.a.ch :: ··~d l,lB the pressure on the soil.iaJessJh,e p09pl¢,are \>e~ter able to with\!ta~i - b,d years . than are the. residents tjf the more 0Qngest9(l t~cts. ' In the second pat~ <;>f the resolution, the honourable member has asked tbl;\t 1ittnal irrigation should be· extended in the diiltricts in question. With that
·<J>_art Qf the question my honourable wend, th,~ 0¥ef:E:qgineer, will ql:lal, if · neeessary, As to wells, 'Ve do all we can to e~c'o'urage then;t; but in the greater part of the tract in question wells are v~ry · !ileep. ·. I-µ IJ5;si;lar in,d~d
-. ,thfly generally are over 100 feet deep !lilld.it ia qot e90~Qmic t()· .wo~k tb,a:~ ·ui;uch. They are generally worked owyw tl;i.e l;'ab.i_ season to grow whe.a,.t
•gran10.r barley. Thewater,bowever in thewellswoften ®,ftand thispreveµts. -m.11.ch use being made' of them. ~e honourable ¥\;Q'Ver also referred to t~~· Well,Sir, I happened to beservingin th~Gqrg~o~~i~t:i;i.ct in the :w,mine of
·1900 and the principal fami:ne v.or~ on wl\i,Qb Govemn;ient concentrated ~ts .:-atteAtion then was the m~kmg of ta,n,ks. . . ~he same was ·. the case. fu Hissar ; tanks were preectjb,ed as. the : stan.d~~ fon,n of fa:µriµe .work ; many tanks were made. As I ,already sajQ I know ~~1:1,r we'!\ :. hardly a))y qfthe famine tanl,u; hold w~ter -. E!AP eve)il Wc~i31e t4ey dQ so, the catchment a.reall a.re IJ.Ot su:f(i.ci~nt, and w,he,re we w~,:i:1t
· to . increase such area~. tl:le peoJ?le o'bjee.t. · · Th.ey · say, w}Jy ~oajd ·:.Y .... 01:1 t._ a .. k,e.·Q··· ur. ram.· . :wa~er w .. hi. • c. h w. e n. e.ed f-0.r .. _O:W .~to .. 'l>.}tl an. cl run. , it intq tan ... ~-? J~. t,he G-µ,rsa<>:ti dis.tr,ict. c1,rcq_m11t~:o,oes ari! r~tl\er q4Ierent. '.!]here qre 1n: . it :µiany small tuns a~cl,, as thp hono~ra:ble. ~P,;l,p,eria, clou,b,t,less aw~rei -tpei;e ~~?dst~ ·.~ ~bat distri~t. :a ,sy~~en.i, of b~qs,:u;i.~q; whic~ watei; ~s i~ the r~ -~~a~oAw,hich _are -q.sed. f-0r ~~.ga.t~gn, fW,l>QS~ m tJiw dry m.?A~l:\s. ~e bµ,µ~s · '1e weij ~an!lged ~ Mt. };3).'a;yI,1~~ ti.le preS.e:Pt. De,p1;1ty 0olllIQ,lii!SIQ~6l' of Gw:g~qµ takea great i~terest ill them. · ·
; - J-\~ ~ ~!'V.e ~O\Y. d~~~\ ffl\l,i ~ll tM ... p¢nts the l;lonourable member. bae raised. I would, however, like to assure him, before I. sit
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l UN-J'AB LEGISLATIVE
:RESOLU !ION RR DISTRIBUTION. OF INCO'\fEJ DERIVED FROM R.ESIN TO THEI 85t '.ZAMINDA.R PROPBIETORS OJI' 'l'BE SH AMIL.AT FORESTS IN THE KA.NORA DlSTRIOif.
-the sale of resin, which is extracted from trees stahdm,g .on shamiltit forests, . which as I have already explained are the property of 7.Jl.miridar proprietors,"
-·With-these words Lrequestthe Government to do Justice to the claims of 1zaminda.rs 'of: the Kangra district and l entreat my worthy colleagues io . extend their heartiest support to my resolution. · · · t ·
Mr. President : The resolution proposed rnns-e ,, This Council recommends to the Governor in Council, that the income derived from
resin. obtained from the 8lwmi1,at forests of· the Kangra, District be distributed amongst the zamindar proprietors of the Sn,a,milat. · ·
The question is that that resolution he adopfod. · ··sardar Harbakhsb· Singh {Hoshiarpur and Kangra (Sikh) Rural;
(Urdu) : Sir, I extend my heartiest support tothe resolution so ably moved by . my learned .friend the representative of the Kangra non-Muhammadan -eonstituency. But there is one thing which he has mentioned about 1;ny dis- . trict. i.e., Hoshiarpur which perhaps does not seem to be based upon, a,
·· matter of fact. He said .in his speech that the zamindar. proprietors of the Hoshiarpur district, under similar conditions and circumstances havebeen .ooneeded their right to a share of the income derived from resin. This I b~g :to submit is either not correct, or most anomalous. So ~ar as my information ,goes it is incorrect since on the eve of my departure from my district to attend the Council session here I was asked by some friend.oi . of my district who border on the adjoining district of Kangra to support this resolution as it
.affected our district also, but even: if otherwise I hope tht1.t the .. Government .member ineharge of this subject will be able to throw some light -on it and explain the anomaly. · ·
I admit that Government is entitled to a share of the minerals or tr.easure .troves found in somebody's land, but Hail to understand how the Govern ment has established its right to trees growing on the private property of individuals, There is no law which can justify this usurpation of the right
, of private individuals. If the· Government wants. to avoid discontent. and is solieitious of maintaining law and order. in the .Kangra district;it · behoves 'the Government to recognise the right of zarmndar proprietors of the Kangra -distriot, to a share of the resin obtained from trees which ar(rthe property j°-f -these zamindara.
· My honourable friend Ohaudhri Ram Singh was also pleased to remarkthat people of the Hoshiarpur district are past masters in the art of agitation, .and have, therefore, succeeded in obtaining their right. In reply to this Twant to tell him that it is the right of every district, ev3ry community and
· :if I may be allowed to say so, it is the right of every individual to agitate properly for rights. If the. people of the Kangra district. have not yet
'learnt the art of agitation they have themselves to thank for it. If the Kangra 1>eople take to agitation on the right lines we are all prepared to support them. Wit,h these words. of support for the resolution of my friend I resume my seal.
Cbauclhri Zafrullah Khan [Sialkot (Muhammadan) Rural] : Sir, it· appears to me aft.er listening. to the speeches made in support of thi~ ;resolu,tion that this is a. matter which.can better be thrashed out in a court of 'law rather than in this House. It seems to me that the dispute is not really -with regard to resin only, but with regard to several rights in these forests <Which are cl11>iined liy the zamindars and are denied by the Government or
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8:~- : . ' : P~fJAB LEGISLA~IVE -0 N~~~. _ p!9Tf. J _ : JL_Ji~~~~~~Jqtan.J , : - - .. 'i • - I _\:.l .Ila en :ua~ by the Governme t, &$ the honourable': mo: .res In 'on put it'. N<>w, tJiat may be or that may no~ ~ o, . .. ]io - wally turns on t~is point: _Wha are the respective rights oft ,.:dar _ ,Jid the Gov~.ent in these s from which thE! resi~ is ta' l'd · t think that on the materials av ilable in the spee~hes ~t ve ana e r may be made in s'Qpport, of or _ oppqsition to tllifi rebolnt [n, · · Ho will be in a position to judge as to whal they ought tb r · iqin - idto he G<> e _. . _ent in respf!Ct of these trees r, iii respect of thJicom · deri ed ,
·fr· he resin obtained from these tr s, The argµmen~ of t~e h onra le mo e is this : He says ' we are not aw re hqw the Go,ve~:rr-:en~ bas ad al-- __ -
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.. l.J ~ e·_.d_ .t}l.e<rig···h~ .. ·.o· .. ·.f .. t.h .. e pe .. o.ple i':1 .. t es_e~o .. r~.sts.but.wE1., c1·1lli· .. ·.th ·. w, e r.e· · en ti · to the pnee of the resm -obtained fro n these tr s ' 'Q.t )~ . . urpation has been going O for! a long: period f ti e. he- : ~ .... ent · ~f the honourable mover as,( t\1.at when tpe\ . min rs h 've
. the .. est rights overthese trees wh not, give them tJba 1 con ? a,t '.~ : 'ent app~ars to.nie to be rather in onsi~te~t .. If tbej G~v:ernm t · h ve ·:usu p d ~he rights over th~se trees fr t~. e }ammdars iaIJ.d . !e xclu ed
. -th~ . mindars ~om ~he enjoymentof hes~ rights, then P:'f. mm ~ h ve . no t efullest ngh~a over these tr?es. On~be other ba~d I if lthe 1;WD rs
·ha. e .c ... t .. u·. ·_an .... s e,:ercIKed. · the fullest right ove~ t.b· ·.ese ti,:eee hithert(b. the It··. s ms . t<> · t~ there can be no ground £o conJ.pl~int. J I . ·.·e· .. ·.:n_ •... my. h'ono~. ~. ble friend' went n td •. sdy that the~. r .. :t·. g t past. e :azmg rights in.respect of these rees; !That has not g t do th
etocy. rights, It is for .the first ti e I iha,'ve been told th t wi s you can have pasture and grazi rights. One has alw ys
tba asture and grazing rights refer to as~ grown upon ~a,d and )ie . · (4 voice: Tree~.) Very well, the , I tas not awareJtliat int
."we ' .. t Q.attle are a~.cnstQmed to graz up~n :tree~; If th~t ·. so :riil t hieh they enJc;>Y and they are eleome to it. T~e\\ y · h trie went on to say that the zamin rs g~t one-qnartef oft e s
ftimber !1'°.d fuel wood s~l~ out of tlies~ !o~ests. jl .~ _no ut when it IS alleged that It IS so, believ~ It Is so. It te EµIIS, owe er,
_ _ . . ~en an~ I ho:pe we ~ be enlight ned ion _this poin~) .a~ t wh br un er wh t . t this payment Is made. It ay be m recognition , f so b so of
. iF.f<> ., . ~tar .•. y ?ght or it .. may be by way _of o.mpensat_ion. in rrp. eo '. f s e ri ts . ~f pi.ch they have been depnv d and which the~ ha air dy s - r~n ~ ed. . But merely because s'?-ch a payke11t is made1 it oes t fo ow . tpa . e trees belong to the zammdar . ~ the ~rees ~eaP,y belo to he·
· za . · de.rs, -another question . arises. n thltt view all t~at s ha tbi . Some income· · to which the z indars are entitled as b ~ .. y by the Government. Tl:le prope re~edy then is to ~ itut
· ·;,; c~ · - of l~w to r!;lCover t.hat income u lawfµlly appropri4t~d .. y th iue t> ·· · · i . I ! ·:··~-- T '~~ ;my honourable friend con(}lu ed liy saying tha' a~ i ey gra · g rights, and are entitled to o -fottrth of the in~o;in fro · of- the price of resin should be · en to them in tlfo aa , e ~e. s l t1· on as it is wor·d. ed at present d es n. o. t w. ant merely p. ~-fo
. · e derived from the resin obtaine froin shamilat foreiits of t dis · but wants the whole of it. If n;iy honour1,1.ble ,f. end
. pr e d by analogy, be should have li "te1 his claim toithe nco
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· · 1'~~9.lill~9.W It«: DISTRIBl[TfQij <F I~CO¥' ~lilRtV:&~ ~!f,0~ RESIN 8~f· TO.TUB z.Ul!NDAR PBO.l'BIETORB OF THEl s HAMlLAl'. •oi.J!ISTS.
IN Tml . JUNGBA Dl8TBIOT; . ,, - ··-· . '. . ·.. . . ;' \ fl~m 1-.esin in: the_ same proportion in which the zamindars are entitled, if t~~y are at all entitled to the price of timber and fuel wood sold. - My sub J.lllSSion is that ~his resolution really raises a 4ifficiµt question of rights a~q that is a question which cannot be decided in the form of a resolution here. ·The honourable mover of the resolution refers to the fact that in the· Hoshiarp\¥' district as a, result :Of agitati~n . these rights have been
-0-0_nceded a~d therefore they ought to be copce(ie~ in Kangr~ too,.· because cKa:ngra; ·people have also started agitation with respe<it to them. That)~ ;ji:xactly- the rea~on why these rights- should not be conceded. For once you _ _ beginto concede'tights in-this way in property-which is claimed by Govern ment, _eaoh district would follow suit in some forin or other and .begin to assert various kinds of rights on the ground that other a.ist.ricts.which have agitated have obtained those rights. The honourable member for Hoshiar pur said " No. these rights have not been conceded ·.to us, but we have sym pathy with you, because if these rights are conceded to you they will also be- conceded to us." ' That is the _reason why this resolution has been brought in, in the .fm\t instance in respect of those tracts where such forests exist at present. This is the thin end of the wedge. - - If this is conceded, then other districts wilHolldw not only with . regard - to .resin. but With r_egaPd, to fuel wood and so on. Then they may ask for other things and ultimately it would happen that you might have to surrender the forests entirely to the-
- zamindars. The- question really resolves itself into this : do these trees belong .to. the Government or do they belong to the_ samindars ?' That fa not.' a question which we can decide ori this resolution. On these eonsiderationsI beg to oppose this resolution and I think if there is any grie vance with regard to this that ought to be settled in the courts of law. · - · Mr. C. A. B~on (Financial 'Comniissioner) : Sir, in rising to oppose- this resolution, I am afraid that if I attempted to give the House a full account of the history of thoKangra forests members would be sitting here listening ito me at least till lunch time .. Perhaps the House is not quite aware of the· number of tim~s m. which the rights of the people in the Iorests of -Kangra have, . been investigated in the course of revenue and forest settlements. The first 'regular settlement by a most' experienced officer, Mr. Barnes, took place in 1849-1852. This was revised by that great authority on revenue matters,. Sir James Lyall, iri the yearsl865-1872. · It took seven years for the process. Then the third settlement of Mr. Alec. Anderson actually fast~d for.tenyears fr-om 1887-1897, arid its final orders were issued under the authority not of a revenue officer, but of a distinguished legal officer, Sir Denn:is Fitz Patrick. So that if the people of Kangra were the simple people that the_ honourable- mover of the motion asks us to believe, they had altogether somethinglike 20 reai~s in which to place their grievances before the - different officers; appointed to enquire into their rights and their liabilities.
· ':vhe origin of the rights of the Kangra people in _their forest has been care fully omitted from mention by the honourable mover of the resolution. When the first regular settlement began, it was found that not only the forests, but all theland, cultivated and uncultivated, was considered to belong to the Raja. _ He gave leases for cultivation of the plots actually cultivated. 'Ihe uncultivated }a.nd, including the forests, all remained the property then of •he. Raja, and when_ the B:ritish Government succeeded, the property of the Sia.ta. During the course- of these settlements, which -I have mentioned,
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. RESOLUTION R.fi.l: 'DISTRiBUTI'.lN OF INCOME DERIVED FROM RESI~ 857 TO THE ZAMlNDAR PROPRIETORS IF THID SHAMILAT PORESTS
• · IN THE KANGRA DISTR.IOT. _ .. . . .. -·· . •• .not leave very much to the individual owner, The reservation therefore of
• the right to the income from the resin of these trees is not a very severe burden -on the people of Kangra, while the reason for that reservation has the verr, salutary result that their trees are preserved for them against wanton des
··. tmction. If the trees belong to Government, it is difficult to understand. why. rthe small bye-product of resin should belong to anyone else. Tho whole ·'forest policy of Government in Kangra has boon in all these years to preserve
; .the trees for the people, and not only for the people of Kangra but for the ;'Sake of. the· people living further down the streama which flow down from the Kang:ra hills,' to prevent denudation such as has lia ppened.in the Hoshiarpur district· amongst the ohos. These being the reasons for tho present position,
~,()n behalf ofGovernment 'Lhavo to oppose the resolution. . . .. •· _ Lala Mohan Lal [North-East. '!'owns (Non-Muhammadan}, Urban] :
·::.Sir, I beg to support the resolution which ha i been moved ·by my honourable .friend from Kangra, From the 'speech of t110 Honourable. Financial Com .missionor, Development, it is clear, now that the zamindars of the Ksngra dis .riet get one-fourth of their share of. the price of trees on the shamilat land. The Honourable . Financial Commissioner has admitted this faet. Lfail to
. .undorstand thareasons why Government should now deny? . , Mr. C. A. Barron: May "I rise· to a point of explanation ? The
.quart9r share is not out of the whole income, but it is out of the profits from ·. .the sale of trees.
Lala Mohu Lal : So much the bettor, and the resin is the outcome •-Of the trees and that clearly shows tha.t tho zamindars aro entitled to one-. quarter share out of the price of the resin trees at least as thoy are entitled to .one-fourth share of the price of the trees. The only reason given by the Finan- . .oial Commissioner is that there ere so many kheuxudars in tho Kangra district ·
. that it will, be vory difficult. to distribu te thr, t amount. . I fail to understand it. It is a question of right. · If tho people of the Ksngra district are en titled to a certain amount by virtue of thoir right to the proceeds from the .sale ofresin which comes out of tho trees, they should· be paid, · Thor,J isn:0 .question of difficulties in the way of Government in distributing them. 'If
. Government levies. a eess, it takes all possible care to collect it througli lam~. .bardars and zaildars even though it may be one pie. · 'lhis share of tho zamin- . .dars also ean very 'well · be distribut,Jd to. t'.1om through tho Iambardars and · zaildars, That is the way in which, I undorstand, tho prioo of other produce - ·
· .is distributed among zamindars. If that is so, I fail to understand why it .cannot be dono in this case also. .
Diwan Bahadur Raja . Narendra Nath [ Punjab Land-holders ~General)]: Sir, I wish to say a few words about certain points which have. been raised in the course of the discussion, It was suggested by my friend the honourable member for Bialkot that recourse should be had to civil liti
,gation. Tho history of forest rights given b.7 the Honourable Financial <Commissioner shows that it is not -always the eventual course oi civil litiga tion which carries weight with Governmont; there am other considerationa too which lead Government to consider zamindari rights. Sseondly, if the case were steong enough to go to court, civil litigation is not always the right course to adopt -. When Government finds that a certain person has gota strong claim which he can establish in a civil court, Government generally avoids litigation and settles matters privately with him: Therefore it is no
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_ : .:_ · . P!Jlt'i;J 4H Lt)(}I!:!LtTIY · ~ ~'.f~JI . J I ' (D. B &ja. Narendm Nath.] . I I ·
_~iu1 -~ to the ffsotutiqn that has been D t forward by my! frle d th · .eµi a.,:· fqr gra that ~he proper ~~rse for the ~mi.l'ders of! Kangra' i trict ffl i9 _ . ~ , -~course to civil litiga tion, : ,
. , honowablt irie,nd tqo 1n0D1be>; for Sin!fa, .1al'1, I\ioqa fw<i.b pointed e>ut.th~.t tltoro is I\Q reas .A to discriminate b,otw n t rig t§· ill Q price malisod by th~ sale of resfu q tjg;hts in tpo pri(lO f)a[' . - - - sale _ treea. If tho ~:rninda:n; arp entit ed t9 one-fourth qf tll s4~ 8'le Q trf{JS;tht1rti isr.p JPt'!llQl\ w:\ly tho sbc!>uld bo deajed\ > '11U' p of t . pti~r rol)ll~J \)y tho ~J~ of, rc~in _ l ~ann, ot for ontj u~d ~t11, the .. c.rimuw.tion li0!:111¥\d QQW tlw di11t. <,tj~ti is justified. I i . .
' e Honourablevthe Fine.ncie.l Co issionor said tJm~ ight in t $·
'W0-l' eeognised fn- tho C-l',S(• of fon,st gro~1w situated I in Ian · . 12 d
!: U ;,~l::tt~a;rzJ;~=~~}B~~t ij:~~r. ~t?i:=~~~tl !~~ _, ~ ~ rr to ol -good, thoro would be difficul~y · ~~y things. jRfg ts in on.i Ian . re generally managed by tho m ab1t*1J.ts of tho village mid he f ot tba s milat fond doos not belong t any particular it;tdjvit:, ual s ot ~y rise to any unsurmountable di culty in managing: t e pr luee of ska i al land. lt is true that the righ s of zaminders in the. · 1· • distr ct. h&v eon gradually recognised accord' gas: they have b~ei;,. Hroug tot .!J·· n.oti·e. of G. ovs. om~ent .. and w~oro ~ov(, en.t bas realisodj t~at1·· the is. so e· mer l .forco bohm~ the claim laid be ore P?vnm:_rwnt, I '?o ern .nt as. rec9 sed that claim, It seems to mo that nghts m th~ sele of r s ha e bee , ery forcibly put before Governm nt, ij,nd I think tl~is1 is tho st · Jt· tha t o matter comes up before them. I ht.vo no doubt ;thpt it wi recei e·
- a.. ff, : . rable consideration .. As far as. I ca* see, zamindarr f th an . chst .c ,ha~.e. got e, s~·r·o·n··.g claun. to.then ~ts.~n t.he sale of ~£,st1;1,and. tron. ly. sup o t this resolution· end recommend it fo~ the sympathejio cons orati n b-y o "ornmont. _ ! . j i
, Bahadur Mian Muhamm d ~ayat, Qur~b.ir. [ 'hah f~f -a madan) Burel] (Urdu) : Sir, I wish! to say only it, ew sup o t of the, resolution so ably move by !my honourable f end :Rd ingh. 'l'ho Financial Commissio or ~as. admittod th~t he a ind r p:w ri tors of tho Ksagre district are ntitlfd to o:.:ie-fourth sha1', of t e ~co · derived from the salo of troes. In those cireumatanjo I w der tow the. Govvrnmont should not pay o thp proprietors at Jo st o four 9f t come derived from !Ii thing whic is e:1(t1ilct.ed fromJttjos tree · ·
P dit l\luak CluP,lcl L Roshia ur ~op-Muhamilliad ), R . I] : I ~IJ,V &tiontly listened. to tho speech of the -B~nourable the a:qc rco. -
- l{UI!_ io _er on tpis i;oint and it he..s convin ed ~e thBt the za±ni~d rs- o ail ~v . .tan uµdoubtod right to thfl pro uce (If tho treos wlliiQh . c~ll ljQ 1 • er~ wQro o:qom; two points whic tho Financial Co~:r:qiss'onflr t '. .. ~. . .e,gr,jpst this resolution. Ono w s thi;s. Ho said tµat . Gov me . t. Wt. t let the ~mindars he.vo proprie ary ~igbts .in .. thc•so! t~loe , th .• wou _ ~EJ . o those foro§is eind, tho conditi n c£ i th~ district ,Hll _ th of t e ~9~ · rpur clistrict. Qn the other h!ln. tho:a.rgument wo:rkl,i t e ot :ftflJI·, . s a. va}uablo product. If people · allowed an inte~est · the 9l t e . trees, they will sec that o.very inglt tre i is pre~rv:ed and Peo le are not foolish. Thev know what s for:their bePefit and hat·
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RlllSOL'UT[Ok TU!J DISTRIBU'fION OF INOOMPl nj,jilivmi>- FROM RESIN 859 TO THE ZAMINDAR PROPRIETORS 011' THE SHA.MILAT FORESTS
tN T:iifii KANGRA 1>IBT-RIC'f; _ ; -, •
'Hoshiarpur people started cutting troes _ whicli"brought no income, but.if tiiJ Financial" ComriiissiQ:n.or wili study tho conditions _ a.t Hoshiarpnr so f.ar as chil trtxi"s are · coneernod from which resin.is produced, they are preserved
-. IJccr.usa thoy get ono-hclf of tho_produca of thoso 'trooa. .Ono-haif is takeij by Govornfuimt and the other h2.tf by the people. In.the .Hoshiarpur distrie] als) st one time Gevernmont claimed all tho money which came from the s~l~ -0£rosin. The people of C"ontSt persisted end laid claim fothe produce .Gf thb t~s and affurwsrds their rights were recognised. . 'In the S8iill0 way it is. not .a .case for th; civil - court to decide, it is: a case whore Government should. ~ecogniim th, justic~ of th, demand made by tho Kaiigra people imd-Gdvorri ment has in ~ way, as _wa.s. said _ by the Pinancial Commissioner himself.,- 1i-
-- cognised the 'people's proprietary rights in these trees. · · · -- · ' .-:,. .: Mt. C. A. Biii'roll: No, Sir. That is not. exactly what I said .. I said that their rights were not recognised. · · __ . , - : Pandit Nanak Chao.d : They are not recognised in direct maruiet, 6iit they are recognised 111 ardndire~t manner: Wliat_-Government ia -unwil-. _ ling to. say directly and wlJere it knows that .the people have got some tight it settles indirectly, and th11tis what is bein~ done-hi" the Hoshiarpur di~ trict .and in the Kangra district .. Raja Habib .and other gentlemen h~:v;:e· 1\sfrell why Government does rio"t give.one-Iourth of the produce oi tll.es"e
\ trees. The reason _is simple; - R~sin iifav:ery valuable product. - It brings ip. : ._ ~Iarge-am:ount,of money and G.o,v~llfuent wants, to· appropriate tha,t nion~Y
: c <:--_-s,,· ·~oJong as it can coi:IvenieritlY"_-doso~ ~ The price of the tree is much less thaµ · -~ -· - : <:that of the producewhich ityields, and that is _the reason _why Govertunent ~ ·· :wlsb!)s to 'keep the fl1tle -produce as long as possible while allowµig the people·a. I i!Jha.te'in tluisale of the trees themselves. The Honourablethe Financial G<im·
missioner went on saying that in the Kangra district; there have been so :rn-aey .settl;ements arid- that it took.so manyyears t-o settle the district. But who baa :fo decide the mattar ? --- It wa;s Government itself who had .to decide. Here Government was a party, .Government.was the_ judge, not a VffXY .sa.tisfaetory condition. Because y~11 _have t~k~J'._l ten or t~elve years in doing _ the settlement of the Karigra district and because you have.given your ,.ilecisfori in your own favour, it is ho reason why p"<:}ople""Bhouhf not open their
- ~i'ps pow:_ That isno arglirheri.t at all,,and Iai3,i111ot understand how it could have _ffee1i brought 'forward by a:gentlenian ot Mr. - Barron's love: <?£ justic~ - and one. WhO'J.E! always ready to concede topeople what belongs- to people,
'Though in' theory all land belongs to the State, so fat as actual practice is coneernsd arid so for as the 'British Government is concerned, it is recognised that people have jiroprietary rights in tholand, It is no tims to talk of the divine right ' of kings ; people ate the owners of:the soil and they are the ow-ai:, oi tfii'tra:=i,; :aril th9refoc_e I 'submit' that· the Kaugra people -ai·e .entirely w"ithi,n their right$ to claim the produce of these_ trees:_· - _ , ~:~ _'Mr-. c, A~ H. Townsend (Financial Commissioner) : , Sir, I had ll.O >ifltention::to s_peak. on th.is :re~bl~tion,: but I Canil()t·,~ow the remarks which
"fell fi;om thelips of the last speaker pass wit].lout a word of rem:oristraiioe - from; me. He said that settle~ent officers in the Ka.ngra district alwaya decided 1n favour of the State. ·· I have the pleasure of knowing the late Mr.
- Andersdii, a most -experienced officer_-with · much sympathy for the_ people <>i the Ka~ district. ' · -- --- -- ·
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RESOLUTION. RE DISTRIBUTION OF IN04?ME DERIVEQ FROM BESIN 861 · TO THE ZAMINDAR PROPRIETORS OF THE SH AM ILAT F0Rf)8TS
_ IN THE KANGRA DISTR!C'J'. .,. ~, o-:; · ..• ·
it which I could not hear. The last speaker explained to us. that these, -,ha.mil.at lands' were inherited by the Government from the hill Rajas ot ·Kangrn and that.tl?,o people had no right to these lands under . those Rajas; and. that when they were taken over by the. British Government the people
.. -ifid·not enjoy any of these rights and privileges. M_r. Barron also 'pointed. out that there was no agitation in the. Kangra district. nor any represent ation made by. the people whon the first, the second a:nd even when the third'. settlement took place, and tl-at if the people had any grievance they would probably have brought it to the notice of the Government. In this connec tion I wish to point. out that the people in.these forests had certain rights·
· when they were under the hill Rajas, and that when the .British Government took over these forests they consideredthat if the forests were Jeft_ with the people, the trees would be out down, and that this would affect the ra;_n~ faHof those areas. But, aaMr. 'I'ownsend has juatpoiated out the love of the justice and equity for which the British Govemment.stands made them
.· 'give back some of those rights to the people with tbe result that the shamilats were handed over and. en..tered in the revenue papers as owned by the villa .gers who live round tho.s~ forests. The only condition which . was iinpose<l '.by the Government _Fas t~at · the trees should • not be cut down, hutif · . azj.y oJ the trees. fe!} down by accident . or by fire, then 'the price of those
• trees that were damaged would be divided between the Government and the .people. In the second settlement of· Sir James. LyaU this ·qties-t,ion was
. /aised again .and strong agitation was made by the people at that time and. . . :I.thmk, the_Gove.rnment.reoords.will_olearlyshow(that on,. ~coount--qf tbis· :·•agitati'on:) certairl. rights··which )he Government wa!)ted to curtail were not
outlailed..~. I know it for myself tba;t during tb.e last setj;l~:r:n.e;nt, .in 1915: or· · _ 1916,: Government again_ tried to revive those eondisions which they hail
· ·given. up in the previous settlement. There· was strong agit!lition then in . . 'the district and I remember people came miles from all over the district to· 'Dharmsala to put their case before. Sir Michel O'Dwyer, and it w~s Sir
· Miohwl: O'Dwyer who considering · all. the grievances _ Qf the people", __ ordered tba~ Government should not further eurtailfhe rights of the people in jhose e;reas. It-was then, Sir;'that theconditionson which the people agreed. to· let the Government protect these sh1mifo.t trees, .the condition that the trees should not be out except under certain conditions were then recorded," '.l:hese conditions. the people are abiding by .now, But· as has been stated py the previous speakers and also admitted by the Government a portion of this produce or its price in cash go to the people and I see no, reason why the price of resin: should not also be divided between the Gov ernment and the owners of these shamilat lands, Of course the Government is pe;rfectly justified to deduct the expense oftapping the "trees anti ex traQting-resin; and I _do not think the people will object to the payment of a portion of the cost involved in extracting resin out of - those trees. I
-submit that it i~ only equitable that the owners of the· shamilatsand the Government should share the pro flts from resin in the same proprotion as is done in. the: case of other produce of the - forests. With thesefew words; Sir, I support the resolution., . .. '.
The-Honourable. Malik Firoz Khan, Noon. "(Minister for LocaJ Self-Governrne:nt): Sir, I am afraid we are dealing with a complicated ques tion of rights of property, on the one hand claimed by the State and the public and on the other by certain. residents of the districts. Unfortunately all.
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RESOL''T!ON 'RE DISTRIBUTION OF; lNCOl!E'DEltlVED FROU RESIN , 868 ...• TO THE ZAUINDAR .PROPRlETORS OF THE SH.A.MIL.AT FOltE!!TS
. IN. THE KA.'NGRA DISTRICT. . .• .
Mr. H; w. Elnerson {Finance Secreta;y}: :Sh:,I wtiuld lik~ to s~y . . . . ·. just. a 'Iew words OD one aspect of the -Ca$e. · 1 ·gatJ1H~r
ii Noon. . . . . that the members of the House are perhape-inolinedfo -the;view th.at Government has been a little. hard and a little grasping'in -dealing with the zamindars of the Kangia district; Some yel!rl:l ago I was 'IH:Jttlement officer and Superintendent of the neighbouring State. of Map.di,
. 0.- .and as part 'of my duties I was connected withthe forest 'settlement of the · · ,State. The actual settlement was carried out by a forest officer of the Forest
-department, but it was carried out in close consultation with me and the rights of the zamindars were investigated by myself. The rights Qf tlie
.zamindarsin the forests of Mand1 in relation to the rights of the State··~fo, I imagine, very much the same as the rights which the zamindars of '.Ka.ngra
-enjoyed when the British Government succeeded to the Rajahs of the Kangre, · district. In the Mandi State, and I think in every hill State, the Rajahs very -olosely and ·very jealously guard their rights in the forests. They admit as concessions certain rights of user. The zamindars in the MandiState, unlike the zamindars. in the Kangra district, are not owners of the property which they cultivate. The hill Rajahs; certainly of Mandi, and I know
-also in the Bashshr State and I fancy in most. of the hill States, have never ,-admitted any right of property to the cultivator in his land. They h!i:ve admitted to them certain rights of enjoyment of the produce and in some cases
.they have admitted what we call 'occupancy rights. Similarly in the forest · they do not admit _to the cultivators oi: ()CCU piers of the land any right. of : property in the tree. They allow them certain concessions of user such aJJ
.the Honourable Minister for Loc'al Self-Govel'nment has described. . Those . . rights'_include fu~l for use for ·_the cremation o! corpses, the right of'usi:qg .fresh wood ·and dead trees for fuel, rights of collecting certain herbs in the forest.s, sometimes of cutting grass and sometimes, but not always, the
-eoncessionof being · allowed to cut timber for. building purposes for their · own houses ~~ conceesion rates. But so far as I am aware, and I know the
"settlement. ofthe. :Mandi and Bashahr States fairly closelyt ,no Sta_te has :~I .Iowed the concession to the cultivators of ei-t,z:acting resin from the for~st
· 'tre~·. · .. ~o:slil~h concessionis .: given in the State of Mandi which immediately· .. /adjoin~ theKangr.a district an1l in which the'.conditions are undoubtedly _::,:the same as'those·whfoh.obtafoed:.0when the British Government took over the
::~KanITTa: 4fyitrtct. The idea,._therefor~, which.:.! think may jnfluence ~he · feelings of. t.he members of this-House, that the'British Government hasin '.° a.ny, way tr~ated the zamindara 9f the Kangraidistrict more ungenerously
... than the neighbouring .Ra;j.ahs ar-e treating their £uhjectt! · in 'their States: is 'i~ntirely u,mounded:. · (Hear, :hea6; .. In fact, itis beeaiise the British Govern
ment has. treated the owners oHandin. the Kaiigra_district more generouslv . thautheneighbouring 'Stat.Ce~ .¥e:-treating their subjectEI t~t various <Ufli·
-; -cajtfos hav:e·arisenjregardilig tlie):ights·_of the Government. and the rights of. ·· :·th~:.zaipin<iJi,rs respective3ly hFtheproduce of.~neJorests~ I ·have spoken
·tJie.s~,few~.ord~in·order}o:re:rnovefrozn,the minds of the members of this . ~ons~that:theJ}overri.m~Iit µltS'<lllAn)' W11ypeen. grasping pr. unju~t in its .'.dealingsw1ththej>Ei()ple ,of'the E:l!Jlgra dis£ri~~ ·. (Hear, lwar and applause;) : , Chauclhii .&~ Singh . [ Kangra {N~n--Mti.ham.madan.} ltur.ai ](Urduf: . · Sir, as far· as I can think the arguments advanced ag~~s~._'the resolu~iqn .
· moved by me are riot very :wsighty. No case has beenmade out against my ""ooDtention that the zamindar proprietors of sbamilat forests in the Kangra
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BESOL UTION. l>Jf DISTBm'tJTJON Cl' lNCOJIIE D~VEJ) FROM l:IBSIN 865\ . T<>T!:IE ziMrNoAR P&o~arErdas o:w THE ·sH.4.MlLAT. :iroliEsTs IN
'fHE KANGBA DISTBIOT.
, It has been said.that:after.paying the various charges Rs.-1,oOO only <remain with the Governni1;mt, and . that it will not be' quite convenient to, , distributeJ:his paltri sum amongst a.host of zamindars'. Td ~ms niy r~ply :. is that, how~ver small the sum may be, it ought. to .be disttjbuted·:amorigst
.. : ... the people concerned .. It.would be only doing justice to the elaimsoftheae; > ·_/: poor, 'people "it this. sum is distributed· _amongst them, '.I he G-0v"ermnent .
. · would be earning. the eternal gratitude orthese' people if it sees 'its way J~ · falling in with their wishes; I also wantthe Government, not to Iose sight
:ofthe fact tfott the Kangra district people helped the 'Government with~ ;men 'and nioiiey during the great war, and itis. but:reasonable ·· that in.
· recognition of their services the Government . sl:iould · give . : th,e:r:q their . due, .· , J hope.th~ (l.owirnment will see its way to Mcepfthis re$.olutfon"whi~b,
.does pot mak~ a_ny·extravagant demand. upon th~:purse ·oftbe. Goyeriunent~:--·. ·. Mr. c~ A. &.iron (Financial Cortunissiorie1'): Sir," th"ereis one point'."
which I feel it· necessary to attempt once more to clear-tip beforethe. House ··decides on thisresolutiop-. - That· refers to the qu~te:r share which is now
being described as a ,haq. ., · .. · . · · · · ... Whe~ I explajni\dwb.j the ~ant of_~hiR one-quarfei:·share_ of·.the income:~
·fro~_:ihe saleof ~s has been originally:made;)"asked whetherI:_ba<_l~111ade~ · l!lYSelf clear.·. Nopn:e_inthe House at thatfiroe'aske~:me to give any.furth~r Etxplanation .. 6f this grant ~f one:-quarier_ share :ofjnt ome. . If it w~_Ertbe 'ha~t,
. · ,which: Jhe honourable mover of this res()ltitiori now makes out itis, it .would - he a long st"anding .right. But up till fSP.'Fthis one-fourth share 'was ·ni:{
·. ;" "given: to tlie',zamindars. It ,owa·s as I said a de:vice jntroduc.ed in the settle-' · .. ,men(9f Mr. Anderson __ in: ord.erfo": attempt to a~sociafo the people. in .the pre-,
S.ef..V~tion Of tbeir:trees~.. . ff.i~-rath~r 8r. CUl'foUS • result of 4ihat•offiuef$"~ttenq>£· . . ,tobe: fai--see~g an<tfo give:the peeple'a1;r.int.ereslµi the pri~ervat.i.on<>(tkeir_
. • : ) t~el:lS, ~}}at it should' llPW .be twisted round as a, ha q fo :which they are-entitfod,. · } ;whether they help fa 'the pfoilervatiorr of the tre~s or n9t. • . As. a matter of fact;: ;:/. the foct Jµat :~tis npt a.hag is ,cl~tly shown·-by thtt condition tha.tif..a vill!lg~:
.misbeha V0S and allows -its. tree~ te _ba dam.aged or-g.J3;mages th1;treel,jf self,.
I. .. . . this one-quafter_. share of. tp~)ll.CQ!De. is :"'ithh~ld_: eithei:, .in:"wli_ole or Ill.· part. -; <\ ..«. :·Jf U?~~~~~i>t~er hap~i. a: vipatte~aors better tha~~~u~1; tlie;q~a~er -~ba:re~m_at ..
. - .' .' '°'" ·_·. be .mcreased . on the-:arec-omtnendahon of the. :For~t ·Officer· and the Deput:y .. '. > •.. ,; Comnrlssione1( l hope. I hive. nQW .made. it qi:iif,e' clear;that there i.s · no. 'fmtrtP:: - .· _: ~ _·.this one:quarter sha_re-"and the a~alogy tbalis sotjght to.b0"i1rawn with regard- .
. _ ··.to J;esfo,.thafliecaI1Se the peQpfoge_t a quarter ,sham:of the income from the--. ,,, ·-· ... </i"Ml.e· <>l]h.ec'more :~.~u_ab_Ie _ti:ees·,Aherefore••tli~y are. entitled. :.t_oa quatte1-; -: ~~,/. , ,:~-,;::ana,rf~f tlif prodlice ot tli~)ltall.diiigtr~es ;faHs to .the grou:n:d;_ :-It js.hatdl;f . .. . • .• c\;-. .;. fiee.essacy--to ada thit a one:qqart:E)r share. ofthe profit f.i;olil tesin would. come - , ·. · ; . -~.,._ ,o Rs-.'-4-00: -··It ·is ea~y eno~gh to" give a. village its quarter 1:1hare in. any tree-,
· · -. · _·. :_or trees: that may'be cut within that village, because-you th11n know _exactly '·'- ·. '/'.'. :Who ~re-entitled tpJhis quarter:' of th~ income. > They~te t4e villager~ and / .\,\( ': ~lso tc:~P.y. eat the:kamiiis 'who ar:e. 1tdin1tted t<f ha v.~ !),fl. goo<3: .a claim a~ ~e . > -: ··.· ; .ownerB.: 1:3ut, if m rut the .resiii · operafio:ns th,;r~ugli.out the year ·tne ,tow;:b
· './ profit i~·onlyRt;J;5QO, iids.:yery·difficult to r~alis~·how that is tC>J>e_distn- .· ·.. ?' J.mte.d allover tlie:distfi.ct amongst all the ownets·,of tµe' sh~miJizt li1;1df!;; .
:MrOPre~ident :.T~e- !"eSQlutfon·p~oposed:hrns :.:... ·. . _-.. :··· ,, ·. • .. ~ Councii recommends to the Governo~1n:CoID1ci1 tbt tJie·iri~oine cerived fro?tli
111sin obtained from the: akamiZai forests of the Kangra· diirtrict be distributed · amongst the zamindar proprietors of the ahamilaC'
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RlllSOLUTI-0~ re ~lLLING OF ~OSTS
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- . The existing system,. to quote the words· from ·the l'l!:blie Services Dom- · mission repott~ · encourages s~rvility among the applicants '.flil;ld is· at the root,· _ oHhe prevailing'hu.nt1ng for certificates, which every.self-respecting Indian_.· .anxious for'. the maintenance and . development of manly Independsnee - in the youth of the country now denounces. This does _not end here .. T-his system is doubly cursed ; it demoralises him that gives· and him. that takes. H India is to grow up into a self-governing _ country and a self-respeotin$'. - nation, a system of recruitment should he- adopted which does not lead ;o the encouragement of a spirit of servility or moral weakness in the ·rising generations. · • -
·. My fourth objection is that this system of. recruitment on comm~l Jines is a serious impediment to the growth gfnationalism and citizenship, In the debate of yesterday, my honourable fri~nds from Sialkot and Lahore very candidly admitted that the question of loaves and fishes is mainly .responsibla for the present deplorable communal bitterness. I ent~ely agree. with them that it is the immediate underlying cause of our communal. trouble. But I cannot see eye to eye with them in regard to the remedy they suggested. By the remedy they suggest this evil is perpetuated rather than eradicated. Their argument runs in a vicious circle, This craving: for communalism started with the inauguration. of reforms scheme. The~ firstoutcome of the reforms scheme was' :the representation in various, legislatures _ on communal lines. It. percolated fa local bodies and to educa- tional institntions -and ultimately to every' pliaJ?e- of civic life. But, Sir,. I ask, has this produced, good-will ? . Has this produced an.ity and good understanding between the communities? l say emphatically, no. To, hopeto achieve good-will by satisfying this craving is as impossible as the·
.hope to quench the craving of fire by adding fuel.
Another thing is that there is no end to this sub-division)and we-do- not know where it would stop. We will distribute posts first on communal. Iines between. Muhammadans, Sikhs and Hindus and Christians. But it will not end there. :Then there will be other sub-divisions, such as agricul turists and non-agriculturists and we have'no hopeful signs of these sub- , divisions cowing to an end. Then, further, there will be Sayads, Shias, Shaikhs, Sunnis, Ahirs and Gujars and various other. sub-division, and there can be no end to it; We cannot reach a point whenwe can say, thus far and no further.
The disease requires scraping from the root. It does not require any dressing. It was said yesterday that we ought to create an atmosphere of good-will. But, Sir, I ask: can an atmosphere of good-will be created so long as we are divided into so many-communities? We think of ourselves. nrst as Hinctus, Muhammadans and Sikhs, and everything else afterwards~ The spirit of nationality cannot be developed and self ~goverm:nen't advanoo,cf if we qotJ.titme. to place ourselves m water-tight compattmeiits. - :~ framers of the Reforms Scheme very pertin:eritly remarkr->: . . ' - .,
"we-0onc1ude )JI!lieettati.ngli that the ~story of ~lf-gove~ment amon.g .the_ 1nitjons, - who developed it ~rid spread, ii through the wc~ld ill_ doo1siv~ly ~._
the aclmili!lion by the &ate - of any divided ,ailegt-.noe ; against the Ste.w,'a arra,~ng its m11m_bers in a we.y which 6DCODI'agtl11 them to think of themse]v& . Jitimruily·asciti2enll .of any smaller unit tlu•Iiitself." ·
RESOLUTION R'/iJ ·~·ILLING OF POSTS BY OP~N OOMPETITIVE EXAMINATION •.
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE
jja.l Singh, ]
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, I , -. OU~OIL [ l9TH JUL 192 •
·1 I i y, coxi:uminity is as dear to me as t~e.Muslim c~Wn- "ty
ann . ullammada,n. : I fullyrealise t t i!ny oommnni'[y 'st nds if. this e ~u:nal. system is dispensed . itl;t e . j If any min9rity co ~- q9,ir , --- , protection; if. is the Sikh co ~ty7 Even nqw \it s ho lessl '. - pt . n ~d everywhere, but I submit t ha , the' loss to my comm _ · ty ill b -._ . 't .. '!:compare~, ~th the great ood] tq the ~ti~'n~ _' anse k_th <c unt .' Another _POIU~ IS th? fact that. a p ers?n who has g~t an a 1p9mt
nt e of his . COill·, .. munity . or of _ .p~~1c.· ul. ar · creed dr aste ake -, I ok ~ery ~rrow, and he came t~t :narr~w coF nal _tlo?
-t _ o O. t ;his official career. What ar _the remedies to1 cpe_ kt evil -o the e stmg sys~em? .· The first remedy 1s tqat, as far as 1,ptjss ble, . . - ·j. nt t .- . ervices should be by open compei tion' .and where tiisl is not
. : 8, ecti Ii sJ±<>uld be ~ade'_on merit an_d. qu . l~fic~tiQns without i;e i:d t .,·.:. ed .. '' .... r ... ~l.?ur. ·.~1t·h.· .. r.·.·.,·.··.e. g.· arcL t.·o col:1.P? .... ti •. veJ' S:}j'.stem, I w~m\d. efer re rt o tlie Public Services Commissio . , h~ success df ~h sys ·~ mpe it on in other · countries is. a fair _ id· tb us. With ire ard 8 ste d experience in- England they say , ; I I
xperience of the competitive system Wen obtained prineipa t in Twoim.porta··.nt branches of the Ind.i n adininistration, tbeJI~di& Ci.vi
· and the Indian Police Service, are n rec~uited by an Opel). cfm titiv · nation held in London, and a simila method is followed in ~he:ca. . oft Medical Service. Moreover, since th abolition of the system :of. nrch
- mlaslons inthearmy In Englaildhav ordirui.rilybeen given! upo the r .su.·ch a test. · Sin.ce 1870 als.· o the B tish c)vil service, to tts ~x nt, · indirectly, of 20,000 posts, has bee · recruited in the ma et. The these arrangements have been encour · ng.: The Indian Ci vi. Servi e has ed a distinctiq_n equal to that of a othh service in the'. worl Th Medical Service has a widely establi hed ~pntation. The Indian Polle we were told in India, has been muc improved, though how ~ar his is cribed to the merits of competition tself, ! and how far t~ tli,e boliti of th specially Tlll!l8,tjsfactory form of no 'natid,n which preceded it i : this s rviee, is a. point on which full agreement h notjbefin reached." j i
again they say : 1 I ! .1th the progress i>f this development t e emiieJcy of the selficll gr
at the present time the State possess a bbdy of public offi~erli w o are competent and zealous than their p decessors, appointed under he patronage, are stated on official aut oritylto have been. We ve n doub
, wha~ver. that_ to t~is highly. sat' tort result the .sy4tejn . .co et!tiv :·.;·._,examination has mainly contnbute The system has, in our o mon, ntirel
·. __ justified·the expectations of its ori natorf· It is true that itJ -nev r been, an~ is not no'!', e~e~pt froi_n ho~le critic~sm, and we doto' a m t th Wl'l.tten examinationIe an infallible or a final test of the b st re Its educ tion. But the defects attaching to. e ~tem, which we s, all in due ex . amine, are, perhaps, susceptible of me mitjgation. In eJx.istin poli l con ditions, and in such developments thei!o, as can be reasonab ant c pated we believe that the advantages of e sy1jte111 of competitive ex mina i n as means of recruitment for the civil s rvice] far outweigh ~n,r , efect: which - have come to .our notice, and we a convinced of the importan e· not 11ly o adhering to th!) system, but of exte di~ it whenever po8$i.bte;" ...
I , - J ' .·, ;f ,.ti~truethatliteraltes~is~otthe nly~~terion; An4iis mes n Ditn t n has to he resorted to. But, I submit that the syste of p titi e-. xamination should be extended and I gi:ven a grealtek hanc
· bi h hen faciijtiesJor education are fairll widesprea~. : T e the secon.d remedy 1s that wher a comp~titive exami atio
p sib e;· election ougp.tto be based on me "ts and qualifications f the 4 tes . n · hot on a,ny · other .extraneous con¥d~ra.tions. !Wit reg ae eoti n the Public Services Oommissi n. ~uggested some safe
.. -". . .. EXilD:NATIO:N, J;hat .are absolutely necessary in making selections .. The :first was theim .. ·
-portance o-f the i,electi:ng agency, second, the publicity given to :the vacancy· and, • third; th_e- 'credential of a candidate submitted to expert scrutiny and,
-iol}l'th, outsidepressureshould not be brought to bear.and," fifthly, a. mini-. mum educational· qualification. The Indian Franchise Committee furthet-·· suggested later :on:· - ' a••,- - - - .. .
. ,,· The Public• Services. Comiiiliision .have proposed not. merely-tnat 'fo~ certain services · exam.ina.tiOll!! should be held in 'India, but that to a great extent direct ap• ,,
. . . · pointments, on the advice of Selecting Committees, should also be made. For the former purpose no a.gency exists and some agency .mnst be set up. - All re- · gards nominations the need for regulationia obvious . The present distributnion -
. of patronage, however - conscientious, does not escape' criticism, and is ex. · · .tremely. laborious for which reason it is very desirable to-set up without delay some more impersonal method of selection." . . · _
I·issure the House that I .have brought forward this resolution with no .. <>ther. object than to ensure greater l;lffi.ciency in services, to eliminate the
· element of patronage and to provide equal opportunities .for' all, high or, J6\Y, of whatever caste or creed, and, lastly, to nip the evil of eommnnalism wbich has made life in this province very unpleasant to. the shame and dis-, grace of us all.in the eyes: of the civilised world. With these few words _ l h,eg to commend this resolution, • - ·
-; . Mr. President : The resolution proposed runs : '' This Councilrecommends to the Government that in future all posts under Govern
ment in a.II departments should be filed by open eompetitionaa far as possible: and where this cannot be done and selection has to be ma.de the most highly qualified candidate should be selected without regard to caste, creed or colour."
T.he question is that that- resolution be adopted. : Chaudhri. Dull Chand [Kamal (Non-MuhammadaiJ.)/Rural j · (Urdu) : -
Sir, I meanto discuss the resolution which my honourablefriend Sardar; Ujjal Singh has moved from two stand-points : (i), -the spirit· of" thA resolution and (ii) the wording. Talking of the ·first point, l submit that the resolution tends to .keep the monopoly of the class, which
- - has been holding it so far, in tact in the servicesunder the Government even to the point of setting at naught the resolution of the Punjab Government issued inthe Circular 0£1919. · I will not say: anything in detail about the monopoly and the men who hold it. It is abundantly clear that a class of people hold almost all th,e posts under the Government to the entire ex- clusion of the others. · · -
, (A voice: Which is that class). , .. That class is the class o( -non-egrioulsurists, _ .In .the ·Pre~Refor.m
Council, in 1919, a resolution was passed under which the. Government decided to give certainconcessions to zamindars. But ever .since then the non-samindara have .been opposing this as they have been doing in con· . neetion with the Land .Alienation Act . though in this particular case they -
: .have done so with much greater success. This is the spirit of the resolution, - It will tend to keep the monopoly of one class over the services under the_, Government, and to shut ous the 90 per cent. of the population who ~weat and toil forthe rest. This~ 1 suhmit, i_s highly unjust. . . .
. . ! now come to the wording of the resolution. It is sugge~ted that th:ere should be an open competition. . _Bti.t it has not been explained what sort of • competitien it will be. Will it be a. competition for the ·test of intellectual' · powers, physicalpi:)wers, morals or services rendered to the Stat~ If t,hetest
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0BEBOLUTION .RB Jl'ILLING OF POSTS BY OPEN .OOKPEl~TIVB
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r~present.cation· in ,ervice by competition. The same will be the ca~ewith ., Iµn,du Jats,.amqng· Hindus. You will find very ·few Hindu Jats Ahirl'!,,. Gµjars and Rajputs in services under Government. The honourable mover· has quoted from the Report of the 'Royal Commissions. But, Sir, the views. of these Commissions are the.views of the papers or of the few witnesses. who give evidence. before them and who unfortunately represent not the- 90 per cent. of the population but only the 10 per cent. of the people •..
· Look at t,he Royal Commission on Agriculture. 'I'here is not a . single statutQry ·agriculturist on it; Nor· was there any on the Commission referred .to by the mover, and I am afraid, there will he none on the- Royal Commission on Reforms. .
(A voice : Shame, shame). Yes it is very shameful. The leaders should . strive to Iift.the 90 per
cent. of the population. 'I hen only can there he any Teal progress in the la11d. India lives in villages, and in the improvement of the ruralconditions, only lies the secret. of India's progress. This resolution does not voice the feelings of the Indians in villages. I, therefore, oppose it.
Sayad Muhammad, Husain. [Montgomery·(Muhammadan), Rural)l (Urdu) : · Sir, I admit that the honourable mover really believed that the resolution if carried out will cre2,te an atmosphere ofzmity and love. and will root out the spirit of communalism from thisIend. But in my humble opinion this will, on the contrary, fan. that fire still stronger, The whole cause of the present trouble is. this question of loaves and fishes of appoint ments; Everybody wa.nts to have a: share in _the administration of the province, But;' Sir, will this resolution · give the .different people their due share Of the appointments. Look ~t Madras, the Brahmans have. monoply in an the services. In fact a friend of mine told me that be believed that the whole ofIndia was for the exploitation of the Brahmans ;
Khan · Bahadur · N~wab · Muzaffar Khan = Aud also for the Sayads. Sayad Muhammad Husain : No, Sayads are forbidden from accepting
any charity, so that they may not become Brahmans of Islam. Here in the Punjab,. we have bomia» in all the departments from top to bottom .. They want fo take everything for themselves. Will the resolution break that monoply, · ·
Then, Sir, these competitions are no good. tests -. We know so meny LC ,S lll.ert and other candidates who have topped the list in different examinetions proved utter failure in the. actual performance of their duty. Sir Michael O'Dwyer in his book "India As I knew it" wrote that his teachers considered. bis class which. included very famous men, men who became subsequently Governors, es the most wretched class, . But, Sir; how these wretched students turned out· to be the most successful adminis-
) tiJ,tors o.f . their tunes ... : . - ..... Raizad.a Hans- Raj: No, Sir, the opinion of the country is with the-
teacher. · . .r- . Sayad Mu,-hmmad Husain;. No, Sir, th~y .were considered t~1e saviours ·
4'0f the Empire; • · · · . ·• · -.. . .. Let li$ proceed further. Jt js suggested the.t fill appointment~ Should be made on the resul:t of an pp.en co:mp1;1titi0,n. Bur, $i:r, what sort ofl}ompetiti9-U- · will you hold for recruitment into the co-operative :department. This,
R ~, OPEN OOMPE IVE 8'1 .. t ... ,,. !',!'JS,OLU::i'ION ,,, FILLING- OF PQ'JTS_ BY . , . . • _ • '!'_IT • EXiMINATION.
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Then I oppose the introduction of. the -systen1 of competitions on an-' -other important consideration. In these da,ysolkeevstruggle, the candidates
_intending to sit in the competition examin, s tions .have to wc,rk very hard, In t}ieiJ: attempt to come ontsneeessful mostof them lose their health, and
- almost all of them their eye sight; .. Their vitality is gone, and before they -entor the service, theJ become physical wrecks-•md M such they can not~ prove. 'very useful for. the .purposes of administration. Besides there are -certaindeparbmenta of the Government, such as Co-operative Societies and
. :A..iwculture, w here only men belonging to .partieuler classes {:an_ prove usefnl.. ':Ph~refore the interests of such departments are sure to suffer if the system of
<-0:pen competition isintroduced, We have already many. grievances awllriting redress .. Our. greatest, grievance is against t!ie administration ofthe · High Oourt~ If you.willexeuse, Sir, the repetition of~hat I sai<l yesterday, Lwill
.as~ tho_se members of the Council who are to-day wa,xmg eloquent in support -of the resolution, in how manymoney suits the Sub-Judges in the Punjab .redueed the rate of interest in exercise of the powers given to them under the, Usnrious. Loans · Act. 'l'he records will show that the provisions of the said -
.Actweieavaile.:lofonly in few cases, and why, because most ofthe Sub-Judges·
.happen to .bolo_q.g to the eommm.ity which will never sympathise with the ,agricult'1_1rists and, frr . that· matter, with the debtors. Do you want to introducEl competition to make the situation still worse ? We want that a, .eommission should be appointed to enquire into the present working of the Ifi.gh Court. We want that ourexisting grievances should be removed, but :m direct opposition to.our wishes the system.of competition is sought- to bi ..
.introdneed. That is far from fair.: With .these few words I oppose. the re~. <,solution.· - -
/ -The Honom-able Sir Geoffrey deMontlftorency (Finance Member) :-,· 'Sir, no doubt a good deal of- sympathy will be felt with the objects of the./ mpnourable .mover of this resolution in several directions. .Bir, in the first ~lace he obviously aims at trying to secure the -maximum effioienoy: in the'.
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-adveneed in education, iS,sure to monopolise all the services if it'. ha.~ not'. already . done so; . The" other natural result that will follow on -the. a~ceptance . -or thir;, resolution is tha.t the: backward classes. and partieulsrly the. untoueh- ·.
- -ables will be deprived of their. due share in the services for ever .. It is a matter _-of common knowledge -that :these classes are backward in- education, so much
_,Bp that if they 'were tcftakeJo-educa-ting themselves to-day, it will ta.ke _ them at least 50 yea.nfto come up- to the desired.standard, It-is neither rea·
- , ;s9nable nor expedient to leave the administration OI the Province exclu·_ ·s~yelyint<>· the_ hands of one seotion' of the popufatiorii and knowing it .to- be so,
. : we, cannot 'reasonably, give our support" to the "resolution before us. The - Ji.1stice,-oo. the other-band; demands that the greater share of. the services
·Should how.go'to those classes. of His 1\,,rajesty's.subjects-who are at-_pfeseilt, Jioorly.' representedin them, and toaehieve th_at object it is essential that the j>owet_.of making of .e,ppoint.inent1f in the different Government departments .ahould .eontinue to rest with the Government .. 1'bis will ollow the Govern ·Iilent to make up the deficiency in the numbers of any community in a pub lieservio» by nomination. au,d selection as is- done E.t present ... 'J:beJoor qi
-effieiency of the servic€JS suffering does not exist any .: longer because the Gov~ ,epmie.nt has now prescribed that in higher and nioz;e responsible services -sucb, .as P.C.S.0 at least graduates should be taken, - .. - -
JUDSOliUTION RE FILLJNG o:, POSTS BY OPEN OOJIPETITIVE 8'7~.', . EXAlfINAlION
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[ Tl :on. Sir Geoffrey deMontm?ren -l ·j :. . . I i · · ~ · ie s .. In:tbe s~cond place, Sir,·he de · ls ~o foot ?u~ ?efotis ti~. . .In this deBll'e}am sure the wh le Houso rs witb] m.s e era]_ P.ropositi_o~ there is a good soutid demoeratie id tio a d giving a fall'Jield to all talent . Now, Sir, let mel e det · . hEl principles which it has been t e policy of the Go\re: ent iri 'a qig recruitment to the provinci ana snbordinatd 8~ ices, Am g' the e,_ first and foremost ~o:t?es- t~e co sidera~ion_ o~ effi.$iepc • ·s ~ st. al:w Y ,~e a paramount consideration, s any · deviation :from t re; ts 1 a. det. ri ratfoncinthe standards of admi ·strafion and was~e ~f ubli mon y .. It 1 . ~eles! to rec~it a person who iR ~t ~ualified for t~e iddties _ _ trust d to t e ervrees ; hut 1t _µmst, at tho same time; be remembered, Its on ono - • ~bl ember has _obir~rved, that 'qual ficat)ons ' is a tefttli Jb.iob. ot o Y. incl d s educational" and scientific at ainments but also f iticlud ot ?ll13, f t~ristfos, sueh a.~ in the c~se of so. _e setv~ces, strength lof char m · o s of some services, special physi al fi~ness and ge;eJJal alert gen :i l intellige:~we which is no't alwa s t~e ~ame thi;11 ~er aps . m l'&· edu a ional attrurunents. In the seco d place, as I said yest rda, , alw s. ~a in in mind-the supreme need fore cieticy, Govern~e1't ims avo d ing h undue prepQnderance ofanyone clas~ in the public' s rvie to t e· prej d:ce of the r~asonable claims of ot er _c~asses of the ~o' unit isf e deal to which we work, some h nourabl« membeJ· $a co sue s fully, but nevertheless let me as ure ~1 hem that w 10 ork and o tantly to try to secure this princ pie. 1
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N vt, Sir, the latter consideration s g6t a very lon b.jst ry b I n e not travel through all tho pr nonnesments of iG«;>v mm tim t ' time ; but I should like to rema k upon some of t~~ ·. ost th.a_ty u_may.see.}h_ at a perpe._tu:i,~ princ IP.-~aslbeen inoper~ti n.p_r fro . t e . begmnmg. · , When British ml fir~t began to e~:na m
as· o . d that mudsterial and admirdst tiv~ fuµcticns in pilli wer large T": cone n ,rated in the bands of a privi~ege ; and lspe?i~l. class. I As rly s 188 , long b fore the Crown assumed direct responsibility fo~ t~e Gov me t in.I . · , thP famous pronouncement as 1:tj.ade by the JGov rnor ene 1 ~ .c • . cil that .. there shall be no g verriing class in jBnti h In . a, a d . w~ e er other tests or qualifications m y bel adopted in tpei pt blic rvio , . di, · c i~n of caste_ or religion sha npt . be amo~gt' t e. n !>er,,. Tba ~- Sn·, . put the axe. to th_o root of the tre~ o~ mon?Jlol ad . VII~ , •. Lea n .. a~1de the c?ns1derafaon of role anti principles inl .,u e~ . ton s. Pro a at10n to which one honourabl member alluded m s s ech, I next p BS to the published conclusions f t~e Governmertt bf Indi on t e ·
enciations of the Public Services omfnission of 1911 \v "ch, mm a e to the following effect·: Yo sho*ld get t.he b~st, en ailab e:
fo( µ .lie services in India and you sho d n,ot a.Jlow the i,r~tl miila oe of a las o oaste in Government service. . ( ear,! hear). TwellV~ y ars ter, n
19 , t err. was a veir important: debate n t1;us ~ subject. injttje entr Le~ ~ ; ~ atu e · nd GovemmeI1t accepted the re olution of a pnv3it.ei m mbe wh1 h ._
.a m~d· in the following formula: vernment shoul~ t~k ste s to _s . ·. hat t ·. e seI""?ces are_ ~ot unduly over- igb~ed "1th repr~serit tive. f a ll'e _· . unity, but tllat as faT·as ·poss1 le the claims of a~ co m ons d. red; With ·thai· resolution the unj:ab( Govemm~nt s ·
··ertt.- ·.The_Spirii of it indeed rant m~~h:the ret!oln~ioP f 191
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, RESOLUTION RE FILLING OF POSTS BY OPEN COMPE'l'I'l'IVE · 875 EXAM1~ATI-ON.
i, .has already been quoted by the honourable member {roIIJ. Kamal, · .. 'lfo t'lis ,;: f, resolution we still adhere. The .samindars were considered to ha <th':l .m.oit
· .. numerous .elass in t1ie,province and they paid the bulk otthe' ta;X:e3:' .· We · ; considered thi~,t they bad insufficient repres, ntation in ,th9 Provincial and
Subordinate services; and tba.t 'resolution aimed, always bearingin mind the question of efficiency; at securing that where there were suitable men of
- that class for any particular service or posts recruitment from t~at class -thereto'·shall proceed in certain percentages. No doubt; Sir, if favour is to
'. be _completely avoided, the ideal would be to have· competitive examina tion in as many cases .as possible and in· tho maj ority of- cases and. in other ~asea to have selection on the advice of a . Public Service Oommission, But, Sir, until there has been a more general spread of education, until there has .been an equalisation. among all classes of . opportunities for education and training, performance must fall short of the ideal because by the use of -eompetition alone the reasonable claims of many communities will be in
. danger, and there will be a risk of reverting to that system of monopoly and privilege which. was rightly condemned naarly a hundred years ago. .
Sir, we already resort to competition in several cases, as, for instance, the P. C. S. But it is competition accompanied by and tempered by selection. .. We have recently substantially increased the proportion · of 'plaeee to be, filled in this service by competition. But we still feel that in order to secure the best composition of the services, we must retain some element of nomi-. nation also .so as· to make the services really representative and efficient for the purposes of administration and sympathetic and responsive to the needs ,of.All classes in.· the province. We areanxious to expand that system ,of competition subject to this limitation · and the. safe-guards regarding the proper;composition. of services, and we shall continue: to take steps 'toward& this end. - I-·may remind the .House that the Secretary of
~State .and the Government of India have felt just the same diffi 'Ou1ty as we have. . In the Allahabad. examination for the 'I, c.s,, · as
•,ho:riorii:able members _are-·aware, a number of pl~ei(Atr~ reserved/to · be tilled by nQminatfon_jrom candidates Who although !!Ot JfUCCeSSf~ in -competition stand· high on .the list. I ·tbµi.k. with two•exc~ptions. au rec:ent .
. Punjabi rJ)Cruitsfo tije-L .C>S,through the·Allahabad·examinatfon have got:·_ 1 ,:: .·· their places by nomiI¥Ltiori; andif this nomination system did not.:exist there · I . {· ,:_'C.:~ ~would have been p:ractically no Punjabis in the I. G. ;S .. as a result of :the '-> -- \.: :eiamiriation ,alone. : · The theory is that India wants Indians in the L C. S~.
as :xepresentitives--of the communities in Iµdia genera1ly. -n competition xesults alone had been fol.low-ed1 the L C .. S. }"Ould he mainly respres~ntative of the. . . southernmo~t protince in- India. ·TJte . candidates' of tfiat province .almo~fin:v;ariably sec,ure;t4e top placesizfthe list of examinees. · - As regards. ·efficiency~' we· recently :maikedly raised lhe: eaueational standard necessary fodlie qualificatiol!S for allniissionto -the vari-0qs services;·.and we-intend to
: •-c9ntintie to do. so in this p;mvinc~ as ~duca~ion expandsso as to secure: th~.
~(-;·-:· • ;}\~,··11H~?~1ta:i~t!i:!:t:;:;t;~Iriher bas: qualifi:d .. t~efi;st:part.···oi, .. . .• . :. :his motion: with 'the .worde ". as far as possible ,, . ha has nevertheless •. made .· '.
. . it :ver;fembracin_g iii; that ~hasliiid· str~$.S,OD making his system of·competi-t .. . tj,onj a'.pply: to all po~ts,1n·&ll serviee,iti .I' think honourableHnemb-enL. will
,t;el!illse that .this is ;not •.a..;pra.ctiea1 prQp~itip:n,. .. The ·:Govel'llD1en:t ~employA1, - vast multitude of different kinds of employees. Many,techitical.p:osts reqime
,PUNJAl:l LE<HSLATIV OO~NCIL.
R,lllilO!iUTlON RE l'Il,LJNG OF POST"l BY Ol>J!lN COMPETITIVE H7'f EXAMINATION •
. . lfopportnnitiesWere equal, competition-\vouJd_ be - the fairest field]or - ·.· nll ... ·.· Some day it will be ; but meanwhile .the -geJ:\eraL interest seems be~t; /aerred by the present policy of G-overnmer1t,:and I will. once more form11~
_:, -)ii.to -~hat policy very carefully in greater detail. · · .· · · .:». . - ·· -· · · · The policy is ~ .. . ... · . · · · - . - . _ . ·
(1)-·always to keep the supreme need for efficiency in view, that is,.- . , efficiency,; in -the fullest sense ; _ _
(2) as education ptog:r~sses ~ncl spreads, to continue to' r~ise .as fax as. inay be practicable the minimum educational requirements. of various posts ; . . . . - . .
- -- (S) to employ the element-of competition as the test wherever the .best
- - interests of a service render it possible; and. · (4): in all cases so to conduct recruitments as-tcvavoid any undue-
preponderance. of_ any one class in the public- services- to. the exclusion oftlie reasonable claims of other classes ofthe com-
. munity ~'· · .. •, : - - ·. Sir, that formula represents the present policy of Government and iv. -
_ -represents the poliey:which 'the Government "'ilhtick to until there bas been. :_a widespread ohangeinthe composition of what we may call educated classee. - throughout- the province (Cheers).- _ . : .. -iw Sahib-Chaudhri Chh~tu Ram[Soutp-East, Rohtali (Non-Muham, •. .madan), Rural] : _ Sir, one of phe objects which was stated by the-. honourable
· -<_ ., mover of. -the · resolution as ]iis _niotive in mo'Ving it was- that · the interests ; .of efficiency required_ tllat _competitipn. should b~ the metbod,-of r~ciuitrnent, : ;:J;p-:v.ario-us· posts .nnder' the -Government, 1 beg. to submit-;that .though cpm
_· :~-petition_may bea, rough guide of the intellectual. capacity of various_"oandi ~- dates, i~ is by p.~ means 'a true:index of the real and_ inherent capJJ,city of those
_eapdidates. \' Again, in keeping the ends of offioienoy · in -view, it IB. ne_cessary '-, .tpir~membei that it'is:-not mere-.int.elleotual capacity which·1s._the true re- - .> ·• 4weit9foi'every: post thafJ~:to)>El · RJied. byaov,imrne.nti /fbere-:a.re-oertainc ·. Jepaitioohts in.d there 'are ceJiaili'iosta;{-or instance/the:_ t~hnical 'br$~hes -
S.· -of sern~es,_where-coinpet1tion may properly be rega:rcled-_as- a good method . : _ ·. ,}:of _ recruitment. for: the _pi.'lrpqses, of;._ ~fficienoy,_ - : But tli~re _ aj:a 'Qtherdepart~ - . :- '). < _:-.ments where _real intelleotua1"_sup1friority - will not serve~the .. best. int~rests ·of
_ _- - - -:,efficiency •. _:After all efficiency requires· not only :intellectual-_ capacity but _also: the possession of cettafo moral qualities whiob may be laokfug in a man,
_ ... ' ;_ w40 ·_may .. be inteUeotually;, a( vety.: good . man. · J!'or insta_nc~; ::t_he- quality of ·._ - -. conrag~a;nd capacity to)l~nd.1.e"and control men, - driving. -power, ~ml- power -
·• /- . ' :- ~jf .fuitiatiVE{may. be laq]pri.g_:iii 'a "person who bas: h.igli __ intellactu~. a,ttain· ; .)j. riients'. - .. -. Can ¢jhonomable.frieiid teally-contend.that>a)iompetitive.exami-
'.\-nation will-be 4llY- index to the possession ofthese qu,aliti~~ inJtny particfil.11,r'> ' : \\_~, cl\.ndidate; ~-· ,- - c - . . .· .. . . • - . . -· - --- - .:
- - - ~:: ·---_it will beieadilycoii<ieded by all reasonable men t-hat_iih~re are a large. - ··nwnb~r·of posts under Go:veinment which require these ~qualitie1rmucli •~re".
:)haii tµe)ri~re possessiofr.of intellect. . The;n I will just-talre one inore dep1'it,t- -thent\ .-·· Take :t,he · d~part ment . of police.- - Everybody _who :ha;s _ -MlY - e:xper-i~·
... en~e of exaµrlnations will admit that the results of_ university -examinati~'n.s ., a i:e to a. very large ex:ten:t ,iiifluence4 by the UUIUber tit marks which a, caJil ~:didate is able to secure in mathematics; a:nd m~thematioHs: t:~!l,lly a ~ubjeo~ ; ~·: -: .. _.-· ' - - . . . ,- . -- > . . . . -_. . . . . .. ~ :: .. r.; : .
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Pb'N~AB LEGISLATI E oouxon.. - :
;.RESOLUTION R.E FILLIN.G O.F POSTS BY OPEN O.OMPETITIVE EXAMINATION, 879
~accepted; the result will be the cancellation of the circular of 1"919 which :prescribes _ certain proportions of posts - which. should ~e given to - a~icultm;11l classes. Then thereis a fwther consideration 'which will.have to ·be kept in
·view before we make up-our minds as to how to vote on this .• resolution. _ .At present there are certain posts which are. re~er:vbct for His" Maj1;;sty's Indi'),_n
subjects, Does my friend want to throw the posts open to everybody where- , ever-he maycome from? Will he allow Russians and, Germans, Chinall'.len .and Japane~e to compete forthem ? I beg tJ submit that the resolution a.a .it stands willon analysis be found-to be unacceptable even to tbe honourable.
mover of the '. resolution. · I just.want to make a. few observations with regard tothe words which
'he has used as a guide to qualification, He says that those people - only ate to- be appointed to posts under Government who are the most highly qualified. What is the test ? What does he mean by qualification ? _ Does he mean
~only the possession of a. university degree ? Does he include under the ·word·' qualifleetion' those qualities __ to which I made 'a reference juat now? (Sardar Ujjel Singh: Yes). - How are they going to be tested? If there is
.t;o be a. board to make a selection, then competition goes out._ The :mere
. appointment of a board f9r- selection means the exclusion- of the idea. 'of com- petition. I was tcying tobring out the . absurdity of the results ;whichflow
.fromthe wording of the resolutiori •. If my'friend had meant only-a_certain)l_~ss' , . -ot posts, he ought to. have specified "it. He s~ply says: '' all posts und~ · Government should be filled. as a. result of co:iripetition.l' It he had confui:ed himself to particular posts, he could have reasonably made the rema,_rlr whioli
"he has made D.OW, butes his resolution covers posts of all sorts and o{ ~II classes he will find hitnself:w great <liffioulty. . . . .. a
. : My 'friend aTuo::~de a reference to- the gi:o"\Vth of nationalism. an~(an · -atmosphere of peace in the province which :he,tliinks has been seriously dis
. turbed on account· of the advent of communalism, and by communalism he _. meant, T think, the giying away of a certain portion.of Govern.men~ posts. to .. .certain classes. or communities elong with those ·who had. a monopoly· of those. : :.posts in .previous years. limy friend means by the growth of nationalism the
monopolisation of Govemment servioe by a.nypai:tioula.r class, lam afraid:that · nationalism will have to be killed and put an,: end to. _ Th!:it is not nationalism, .that is monopolism, If he really wants the growth ·of nationalism in this province, then he ought to allow a fairly large proportion of posts to go to that section of the population of this province which really forms the backbone -0f the province. Ninety per cent. of the population hes gone without. really
> auy share in Government posts. It is onJy the remaining 10 per oent;~of . the population which has in past years monopolised almost a.11 the branches • •· -0f public services in. this province, and if by nationalism he means the mono-
polisa.tion of public services by that particular - section of the population, I am afraid that" nationalism will be killed, ought to be killed, and it is the ,-0uo/ of_ everybody to kill it. · ·
-Then he also made a reference to the _noo.essity -o(orea.ting an atmosphere ·.:'.of peace. 'Does -my friend mean the "peace whiclCcoi:nes from the slumber
--0f 90 per cent. of the population an~ the usurpation of their rights by the : remaining 10 per cent. of the' population ? That would be peace indeed!
When a. large section. ofthe population is not conscious of its: rights,· the ad ·!anct~l"portioti of the sooietjmay usurptheir rights, may monopilisa all that
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, RBsoi.lit10N RK FILLING·<>F P-OST!'\ ::-BY OPEN coMPET-ITIVE EXAMINA~JON.: 881
. ar~ not af~aid if.the test of physical fitness or a~mty',to;ridea horse a:~d . .i;o - , '()n · is fixed. But don't go merely by the'.C(jnsideration of. caste, .creed or
- colour. 'Fix a:~talldarcl, fix a. test.and if anybody comes up to ~hat stano.ard 'he must be:-a.ble .to get the post.. . . . . - . . .
8ir, only the other day the whole population: of India, · the vocal, popula- - · tion I mean, was eondem.ning th9 Government because appeinbments were ·
made on the gronnd·.-of _ colour because the Government, made - r-acial dis- • tinction», _It waH-statecl by tbe various people from various p}atfonns that Europeans are called in to fill the posts while the:l;iighly qualified Indians
· are entirely. ignored> Govemment' has conceded that .prineipal. in various · ·matters. andthe Government has accepted this,ptjn.ciple when_ i,t proclaimed
.: fha t most of the posts shall be open to men of ability who come up to 8, eer- . · ' tain standard. · r think it will be -wrong _if after ha:virig ruled oat rsi.?ial " . . , - considerations -posta were now to be given on-the, basis of creed. Tb,e. honour- ·
·~ able mover.. was perfectly correct when he said that while to-day .you.have · fights between the Hindus, Muhammadans and Sikhs· for these Gpv~rn ment posts, a time_ will come, why, it has: a.lrea."dy, c<>me,,when every caste:;
:will ealmour for the· posts under Government· on the :basis 'of castes. SQ:i:ne. . gentlemen'. ~ay that·~O-per ce~t:·qf the populationIive .. in the villages.-~nd _· -._
-by that 90per rieilt. of the population they·_rr:-1)8.n particular caste 0! castes./, . But what about those castes, those men whoa.refowes.t in _tho scale of society .
_ · - lowet' even. than tlie Sp-called agriculturists ? · There are seven_Jrores ofthe:rn < ><'in the whole ofIndia. Are you going to reserve -certain- posts for them? T_hen.· ,
_) .. ;'there ai'e a large ni:oriber~ ofpeople.·who 'are-Landless,~who itte not mnrinq:tl.rs; > ··-who n.o 110t ;ow1riµiirich of land. Do tliey,riot requite the greatest protection .
. - • _and encow:age:i?ieiit,. • - They h~v-e not got land to _fall back tip on, they have: not' , <got· any other means 6f livelihood rand. it_ is :they . who ought to be selected.
_for-these posts wliere educational or other qualifications 'are not required, - >Why stJck - to th~ circular which makes ·the -landed clas13ea-tbe proper persons. , :-,,to· be given Goverru,nent _ appointments. If any consideration of equity -
- or, justice were to prevail; the landless classes ought.to be the-0lasses which should be given greate1· .preference in chose services where edueational-and other ·tests are .not required, (Hear, hear). · · -
Sir, :we.have to follow in the .wake ofthose nations who have· achieved. self·gQve:riunent ... There_·· was a ti~e in the liistory·-ofEngJ,and when the ~oman Cat_holics did not get any posts, when _they . were disallowed from·
- . '·~1ltering the' higher r~: aiid even the fow~r ranks. of Government -serriee, , It is· the samf:1 ·sort :of thing in India J,hat is taking place, 'the :same kind of
- .·fooling_:pr~s> p.ere~ __ There. is, a..: clamour'for -eommunal :representation in >the services on· the population basis, 11, thi:rig:unheard of in the civilised --~ountries:Qf-'Europe-or Ammica to-day. That-is an-impossible thing •. - If
- · a,y-011 · were: -to exar;itwe- the hisfary- .of the P'.unjali' during the: la'flt· :five or /six ·. , - yeats,:,:You' wilF:fuid that 0t®. efficiency- of ihe servi90s .has gone down, ihat , .·; · corrupti_on' has.: increased, arid· tli~t communal considerations-· poovail in-,a.11
-··depanmetjtsi and·this_is' the:.-resuit -- of the· policy,which ioine h()il.oura,bl&. - '-:m·,unber.s wijuld like. the' 'Goverriment tq pursue: and :tJie;Uovermpent,unfor-
, - . truiately jg' pursuing to a certain. eitent. I There 'c:an be_'<>nly qlle': method - :to avoid·-this eo:miiitU!aJ· tension and to a.void this ,clash hetween"·ciasttnwd -:,ea'Ste and--o~twoon~reed,-and -cre~d anti that ifthe one·w}µ~··tha,honourabl& _ ,-mover lias:iightly placed ,before the-Council for its-·aeeeplianee: e.I,da,:41ot
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RESOLUTION BE l!'ILLING OF POSTS BY OPEN OOM:PETITIVE EXiltINATlON. 88S
that tradition we can oertainly secure the future well-being of our province .. ~ I µ.ink I may ~aywitllo~t hesitation that there is a great future before the•' pi~vince if 'the .provinee wil! give attention to the practical problems - of thit-: day and meet them in a spirit of co-operation and good will, and if any ar- ·
_ raii.gement 'is I!eceasary on communal basis reach that communal arrange- _ ment. ,-_ ..
_ I think one or. two suggestions have already been made. One of them is __ that. recruitment . to - services should be in the hands of the Public Bervioe ~ Commission and that thereby· -hnpartiality.of recruitment to the services - m~y . be· secured. - ·- -- - - - -- - · · - - · - · -
· -- I will.not labour th~ po~t because it is a s~ggestion .w;luch wilrbave to be'.oarefully considered; · ._- ·-· _ · : - ·
.'. . (A voice : If all c~mnµssioriers are Europeans then 'justice will be done') ~
.: · · ·· I am inte,rested to hear· that the Punjabis feel · · 3-P lll, · · . that . they can only' get . justice from a .. Public Service Commission - -_ which . co;i.sists • of · Europeans. If th&":: people desire it, the matter should be considered, Regarding what Sardar:, UjjalBingh bas said about- . the - efficiency· of services, there can be no ques- :: ti6}1; What we require is efficient administ:ratiop and efficient administra- · tien can only be secured if you have the most competent men; physically,.:. mentally, - morally, iitted by character, fi~ted by training to carry on the ad-. .
· ministr~tion. _ If you need an officer to - disperse the crowds, you need a man · : who has got sufficient grit to disperse the crgwds. If_ you need the adminis-': tration of justice to be carried out between man and man, you need a man of oharacfar who 'can deal out even handed justice' irrespectively of caste· or ci~ed: It -is absolutely essential that our service shouldbe efficient, strong, . : and able to carry on: the a~stratioi( in the way in which it has heen ear-; :~. ried on for the li_tst<50 or- 60 yitttrs ... '.L'aking into consideration the' mental . attitllde of the people · of the province.' If eel tpat the lime forintrodueing competition has not anived. T would, therefore, request _ my hononrable.: friend, Sardar.Ujjal Singh, not to press the resolutfon t_o a diviaio~ .. His .: resolutiJ\~l has served its purpose._ - He has drawn · !.1>tte~tio~ t~. a _ver, serious problem and I think he will ho satisfied"ifit receivesattention fromthe House : · and outside the House because 'the problem is an urgent one, ·
, _ .Chaudhri Za&ullah ~ [Bialkot (Muhammadan) Rural f: Sir:.:, light has been thrown upon this questiong9mvarious angleiJ a1:1dit has" baen discussed from various points of view, _I sli._all try not.to cover the same ground over again, with regard to efficiency, difficulty in holding competll.tive · - examinations for every branoh of the public· service and .so on, ·_ 1 shall .' merely draw the attention ofthe House to on_e fla~, as it appears to ~e, in the - - arguments cited in- support of this resolution. __ -Nobody doubts that this. resolution asks for an ideal state of things in an i_deal country and like all ideal things, I am afraid, it is impracticable. Its impracticability from various points of views has been sufficiently demonstrated already. The · resolution sounds very well. When it is put in another fonn, it sounds better still " Fair field _ and · no favour." But what do you call a. '' fair field ?~ .A fair field is that in which all the competitors are placed on an equal - footing; having an equal start and with no handicaps. You have first to remove all the handicaps between the different C()mpetitors before you i,an· say that they have a fair field. Now, with regard t<> competitive exaroina~
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- .RiilS9.LUT:ON Rhl FILijING OF POST.~ llY OPEN 00)\IPETIT.IVE EXAMINATION. 885
_ _ Lala - Mohan Lal : It is absolutely wrong. _. __ _ · · .: Chaudhri Zafrullah Khan·: Taking_ · it '-generally,- witho11~ quot, - -, ·illg any- mstanc~s; ·js·.ihe commiiriity on whose 1~n.~rtws-- adv_ocaoY o·f tiia_
untcuohable classes is being 1lllt forward, prepared· tb-: allow the ehildzeu of. . these· untouchables, sweepersfor' instance, to e~t~r th~ S('hools ancl sit'mixecf; up with thi other-boys?, (Avoico: -Absoluteli,yes).' - It is-a very good sign: ~ut at present, whn.t .re~ly happens is this. ·
- Lala M9han i.at: rt .is happening now. -·
-- <:~~d)#i ~~ ~~ : _When '_~qch,·.a, ;child gQ~s ~O: ~- ~c~b"ot" _; -t4~re is immediately< a cr'.Y: of " Hari " " 'lJ.fl,,ri Y H ari ", anti, y"oti r~ aw;a.y, ..
. fro_m hin.. - You won't allow him to sit in_ the cl~s~ andJh~n you. say ~ L~.t--, . : .him come ·for:wardinopen competition and CQinptte. f_or th:e,se po$t~. 'if hf) 1( _.
.qnalified.' How.is ho to be. , qua;ij_tied ? Onbhe other ha:nd:wnat·iij beip.g .. aif:vocated by those. who oppose thifi re_SQlution is thi~ .. ·- Gov"el1im$n, 1i~ve at_ .
· .: - present - a free· choicA in- thif! matter.' . _ They - haye laid dqwn certi\.in lines whieh __ . .: -_guide .them in making selection - for ~p-pointments to the~ postR_; If they.
- -consiaer th11t any particnlar community ought to.be-represented' lll any par~i~ : "°ular depa.rtment they cap grant speciaUacHjties· tq the me~p~rs of - that _ -
_ · community to· qu~fy t};lenisE:lyes for 'those post~ and· the]) a:ppofut tbeni'ijy _- - .I1.9mination if it is ~of.pqssibUi_to. bring" in· any• of. tl.em by;opf.lti c9iii petitfon. -
. (H,ear, hear).- Therdhe untouchables will · have:_ a chance_; but under - :_your system they woiild have norie. _ Re;tUy the advooaoy of these untoµ.c-h:.
-- ables is a ·very goo,. thing .in U1eory ; hut in practice ·.we find; that it is that - ·-oommwuty alone whj9b. is advocating in the Honse tht,' causeof the un- _ .. toucf:iables -which,)n p:racti,C!:l erects ~a,1Tierf! agafu:.st th13, _pro~e~~ of 't,9ese .
-commnnities. 'Aniong the Hindu~ats orSikh Jats or MnhJ!,rilJAAQ.aR J_a.ts - . "thflre -is .nntch less,_}Jarclly _anything, of the spirit Qf opposi~io~ tq,w,~rd~ 1Jli/ ._
touohables as compared w:itli. those who live in towns. A.gricultm:aJ.la;bourer~ "---:' _ ·iu_ many parts. of the. Provin,ce are uraWJJ. from the sweeper ol,ass apd M1lhafu:..~ - madan Jats, Sikh Jats- and Hindu Jats alt workwith- them iii the :lietds\v.ith~ ·_ -out. any 'question - -or _nn~ou,~~ttbili,ty iirisiilg. _ 1, tµ<trefo~e~ ~sll,Jpat tl\~:.: .·
. .advooacy of. untouchables were supported by sorp.e,practi,cal u:i~tlttioe~,in tlµs, .province : there is no use in merely pwfossirtR it; , Apart fio~ map;Y. - otµ~r ·_ -
---consid~1:ations which have been put _forward in thisHouse i'l "pp9si,tion to tlil;s- _ :,resolutiqn ?r m~y b~ -.~.~~- io~rd br _- ~spe~,k~r~.Jho ¢.mri~ . aft~. -i~r,,: r: woajd _ ,oppose. this resolnt1on o~ the ground ihat it is premature, _ 1ntbe sena,e. tµat
-:you Mv.e -first to equalisf t~e_ opportunities .of -'the ~arious, com91uiiiti~s. Y,01:1 have first. to equalise' t4e·sta~~ing plac,ie, ~~ it were, in th~s C.fHl}J;)~t,itio.~ ~ -
. 1·ttoe. Yo:µ hav~ fiJ:sfto talte tJ,~ay the h8A~''l:\P8:'. Th~n. ancl __ the~ a~o~e. _ · ca~you iu:iist. on t}).is _ ~~ino\plt being applied~_ · \VjtQ reg,rd tq .e~~.ieJlP_i yo,1,1, · call b~v:oawritten examiniit1on or you oa11, ~ave a llleasure of w~~~h? _ot oth1~ ,capac~fa~s as µleis beeri )ugge_s_ted by vanous hon9urab le mem,p~rs of tb1~
. Honse._ , Qr better still pai;ha.ps for_ iha.~ pm"PQ,SEl some_ $<lj9;lt~, n1v1;1P.tor ~- -iuvellt .sollle in,strm:nent, so:rne effi'.'iency ~eter, like the th.e1m,Qmeter, by tlie ,application. 'of 'rhich to·.~· ~Mi~a.te. yo~. CQnld at, once det~ri,J~n_e the degri¥: . ;of 4is" effi.9jencf P:~ID a.Ir l)Puit!3. o/ ·view at:tdtbat oa,~di,da.,t~ C()tild be eie}~~~- -·
- who ~t~fi..ed:tp.e t~t: :13uet t~~t is--~ cop.13i~e:i,-ati<>~ for th_e future., At pr~~t Y<m h/}ve gQt to see "th~t you. are. il;of <?~n:.,e<J.,; aw~ )Aerely ~y 'ipe ~t~~oti,v~ :
.ao$cl, o(thema~m:tliat there shoµld be.~f~ir field an.d op~·-9.9m,petiti9n f9r, ', . . .· . . . _.' ~-·· . . - - . . ... .:. ~- --· : ' ; - . ·-·· . -. . -~-
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PUNJAB LEGISLATIV COQ'NOIL.
RESOLUTION RE FILLING OB' POS'l:S BY OPEN COMPETITIVE EXAMINATION. ss't although I belong to avillage and I own land and my ance~tors·we; owning·
• lands. (A voice : How did you acquire those lauds). In the same waT: as yon acquired land .. But surely not by plunder or loot as your l!IICestorer did. Your ancestors took possession of lands by force. . ··. .
.. - - M:l. President : I think I have given. sufficient latitude to honourable niembers· of the House. · When anhonourable member .is in. possession. of the House and he is addressing 'the chair, other. honourable members are requested to listen to hini silently and not to interfere or interrupt rum in any- way. That is quite unparliamentary. ·
Lala Mohan Lal: I think, Sir, that those who sit on. those benches should be fair to us. I say a Muhammadan has got as much right to· appointment as a Hindu. But· the clamour of the Musalmans resolves .. · itself into this, that there should be an immediate change of iticumbentst of these posts'. They want that the present men. should be turned out and, - those places should be filled· by their own men. My honourable friend the· member for Montgoml:lry made a· speech yesterday which is quite expres- , sive of the general mentality of the Muslims; · Though the Government; b~s been pleased to appoir!t, two Muslim Judges to the High Court of" L~ore, yet our friends in. the Council would not be satisfied. Thl:ly say that: .. because- those two gentlemen were imported from other provinces, they· do-: not claim them to belong to the Muslim community. Surely this is a per- · verted mentality of the worst type. (A voiee: We want Punjabi Muslim, Judges). Well, now the cat is out of the bag.r-It is because some of my friends. on the opposite side want to become High Court -Judges, they have set up this made-up and bogus agitation· against the High Court. Some interested persons who wish to be elevated to the High Court Bench, owing to abso-~
JutEily selfish motives have started this agitation. Firet they eicite the mob- . and then they my that the .real cause is the absence of a .Mmilim Judge on.
=the High Court Bench. They start this agitation under the pretext 'of econo mic causes. 1 agree that to .a certian extent that is also a fact: Some o( us whether we live in towns or villages are really poor and are really . .Je..:. · serving of sympathy. . · · . · · . . · . '·
. Then; Sir, :with i·egard to the remarks of mj honourable friends on the· opposite side about education, I am one of those -who do feeHliat all eom-. munities should be given a fair chance and those who are backward in. edu 'cation should be pushed through and given proper facilitiesto .come to the level of those who are advanced in education. Has sny Hindu ever raised. his voice in this House against any proposal for the educational adva.ncement of any community. When.ever the Minister in charge brought forward 2uy educational programme for the upliftmen.t of the backward classes, we never raised any opposition. The Honourable Ministers are in charge of the· subjects and the Government is looking after the interests of all eommuni ties. Whenever any financial programme comes before us, the opposite side must be aware that that programme is put forward by the Government. and that the Government are taking all possible steps to safeguard _ the· intereste of aJJcommuirities. The Government are at present helping those. communities who are backward in the matter of education. The whole· agitation of my honourable Muslim friends DO'W centres round the High Court and the UnivElrsity. In season and out of season, theya.re attacking· the High Court, because the Chief Justice happens to be.a non-egrioultnrist.. So far as the Syndicate is concerned, so long as Sir John_ Mayna.:,:d -was here.,
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l'U.NJ£~ I.E({.WLA.'.l'IV]jl OtTNCIL.
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J,o the examiner of the candidate's caste or creed. Only. the otl;l.er day, I was " . . . xea~iU:g .the LL.B. examination papers. I found· th(f number " 786 " which "
is the numerical value of an Arabic formula, and on others I found " Om H
marks meant to invoke the blessing of God as well as to reveal to the examiner> ·. theconununity ofthecandidate ... Such is the state ofthlngsin a non-eommu aal fostitiition, · ·,rake another instance. During the recent riots in Lahore,
. both Hindu and Muhammadan citizens went in _deputations to the Deputy .Oommiaeioner ~ on several.oeeasions-e-each community complaining of the in ... veatigating officers belonging tothe opposite community. I happened to -: be a member of one such .deputation. (Shame); ·. It-is not· a matter to be
.ashamed of. We haye ~osee thiags as they are; and it is-a:pity that they have come to such a }):itss. Yg11know ;sir, what the Deputy Commissioner told us. I think he was perfectly right in saying what he did. He· said ! ,
''":S-efore the Reform Scheme came into operation, -there were 120 British ·officers in. the police department, .but . that. they were only 68 now; We have not got a sufficient number of British .officers, Both communities want .Buropean officers." - ·
My friend Pandit Nanak Chand is unfortunately not here at the present moment. H~ told u~ that Government .had rem.oved the colour distinction, so that the posts which formerly went to Britishgentlemen now go toHindns" .snd ,Muhamm~ans ;· but .I assure ~y friendthat Government had made a: · ·very g1;eat mistake, and I would· welcome if there were more British officers,' ,{Voices : no, no). I fully realise my responsibility when I say this and, I also realisa the meaning of this voice of no, no. I am riot enamoured of that
,fal~e and shallow natiqriaJ.ir"m which speaks like this. - . I>r. Shaikh Muhammacl Alam : Everybody is notthe same. Dr. Sit Muhammad Iqb,d : . Well it may be so, yet the talk of a
united nationalism is futile,.an<l will perhaps remainso for ·a long time t_o come,' .The wordhas-existed.onthe lips of the people of this country for the
·· :last fifty years and. like a hen it has cackled agreat deal without laying a single egg. 'Howevet' I will tell you that the stateof thfa. country is such that it is not possible for us to introduce the principle of eompetitior; pure .
. ,:an~ simpl», -Jhe. best method for this country is the oneindicatedJjy Sir ~ :; -Oeoff.tey deMontmorency in his speech, that is : to say, the. principle of ~ou1petition tempered oy selection and nomination. · ·
One other thing I should like to point out. I was very glad to hear the honourable member for Simla. tmean his advocacy of the untouchables .almost in an almost apostolic tone .. I weleome it though I do not knowwhat Pandit Madan: Mohan Malaviya's verdict would be.in this matter.', (Lala MohanLal : i ~ is. the same.as mine L Only a short time ago he-ex-communicat- _ -ed.one of his riearest relatives because he had giv~n his daughter to a Brahmin
_ .of an inferior caste. · ~ Mohan Lal : ,He did not.
, . Dr~ Sir,Muh~cllqbal : It was in the papers and Pandit Madan 'Mohan was called-upon to publish a reply to open.letters which were.addressed :tonim and he published no contradiction. However. I welcome-the _change,. jfifiitn@t in theory alone, and ;I hope .that through the efforts obny. friend
.the-honourable member for Simla untoucha;bility. will be removed in this ;province. In the south of.India we hear that when.a Brahminis constrained.
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.·:RESOLUTION.RE FILLING OF POSTS BY OPEN COMPETITIVE EXAMINATION. 889
PUNJAB LEGISLATIV COUNCIL. ![i~T j I j .
ir Muhammad Iqbal.] i I 1 •
to t to an untouchable he must tal to s6~e wall or t)eJ Ii ar b' nnt u hable, too has -to address, in r ly; th~ same wall ~r he r e si the _ ahminis too sacred to be address d by a Sudra. I! shal we ome .day w en such bans are entirely remo eel and the Hindus! o this ad? j better principles of equality. · 1 i ! ! .
l ·_ S , I need not say anything more _ .ithJ regard to th~ pri cipl peE~ i _ . My friend has pointed· out . rtaijrr defects in th~ rese whi h he has enumeratsd. He refers t thelsueeess of the pri cipl of c m·< pet.U n in other countries, __ I must s Y. tl;lat the state] ort ings in t is, co is to. tally diff Ies t. t to the stat of ithjngs in otlie1i c~unt · s, or . this _ son, the principles the applieatio of jwl:lich is good ih 1ther unt ies wo d not apply to this country, Int is country one com:mi'ty alw ys · ai _ at the destruction of the othe community. Tlie~ef re t in.~ .. ~ehands lies.t_hedestiny.of this cou:r'.ltr)·~u~taddp~a line
w .. hi_ h se~. lculated equa.Uy to. ~levate ·a. ··c. o. im. unities th* {.or~·.·- th .. tion o this country. It has been a ue • · t,hat the p~es~n sys to·r t . d the progress ofwhat my Irien cal ed nationality.:. ell, kri? ·· · hether it is desirable to ?ecome a. n~tidn. It is aJ PfO ositi can b controverted but assummg tha it 1~ so, I would, sµg est first d sirable to develop mutual trust n tije communities !ofJthis onnt Y~- T·h·. e p e.se·n·t s.tate oft·_·~n~ is such tha... the.: c·o.mmunitie~ ~o~-ot t ~t e <ih.' oth r, they have no faith m each othe Wl;1eq we meet r,a~h· othe e t lk ofn t onlism, we talk of philanthropy nd tjflpvc of manr,i:t:id O I • day a oa friend of minetold me that e ha~ over·~eard jt'*o in gen e me t lking. One of these asked the ot · er as ho what 1,1l10W,d be o po cy now .. The other gentleman said : Le nat.ipnrilisin he o~ io r lip , but x you g 1e always on your own commu ty
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e HonourS:ble Malik Firoz . , Noon (Mini~ter f r L al S lf- ~P er ment) '. -Sir,-this ~is¢ussi~n se ~ t;o be rather_qa~ch.ng cans. it' rs c. . e.· cted ". '.1th s. uch.· an interesting a ~ 1mv.or. tant Sl~~Ject1.--. - 'lhe e are .. t o.---.-_ que ti ns now before the House. - On 1s the,propos1t10p p t for ard by-
t. ?. e o .. o. u··.-1:a.,b· le memb. er. · who has. move th. is. j l'e.s ol~1t_ion. f1~.1· sh. es o·. mp ti~-· hon t be rntroduced for all services. y competition, I pres me, me ns com ,e .~tion in order to test their ed: catipnal quali:fic~tipri ._ • e ot er'. syst . is the one propounded by-the onourablo Member Io - Fm ce d wbi h's in vogue in o. u. r province. It i uo'Y. fo. r the Cou~! cil _ (! de i e as to, whi h of these two systems is the mo e suitable one fo · ~ pro nee. a far s the system advocated by the ono,t.rable move ~f he r olnt · n _ is' n erned, he only wants you to tes . the eandidates f~r 0-o em nt e -: plo m nt in their educational qualifica ion, and that is all ~h tes _ that e· wis e .Govemmerit to make when ma ng their choice o~ N.t, -_ fJ e _ loy a .. But · I should like to bring to his noti e the fact tha.t whefn -. elec · g y _ nr s13rv. t, t_he educational test i~ 1;3ot t~ onl,:test which Jytju _ppl to hi .. sp _ ly m the sphere of admm1strat1 n bf!SH)es educatip~-t re e ot er qu · ations which are necessary. F · ins~a:nce, take the1a poin ent of· Ext a Assistant -Commissioners. Fo an ,Extra Assis~a* Com I su ·t besides educational qualificati ns, ~he following ~theiqua ar{l a soluetly essential : (1) good ph sique, (2) adinimstr tive and ( ) personality. It may be that y t~e, system t~at. t · e h mo er advocates yon do get hold of a an 'Thq is able to re~1e mo ma 8
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in -a competitive examination, but if that man does not possess anyone of these other qualifications that I have enumerated, I submit, Sir, that that man is not fit to be taken in that service (A voice : what about the result of medical test ?) I will · come to that. There was a certain accused who stood charged in the Court of a certain magistrate. He went and :Secured the services of an English barrister as his counsel. The English
. barrister appeared in the Court of the gentleman who was to judge the case . .As soon as he entered the room, the judge said to the barrister : " sallam
. hasur." Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam : Any action taken by Government
·· :aga,1nst that Magistrate ? ·
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : This happened.long before .,_ypu.r time and wine. Well, the magistrate wanted the barrister to go and sit by his side next to him, but the barrister who was a gentlemen said : " No, Sir, I have to stand here at the bar "and plead at your door." Do yon think a magistrate of that type and with that personality is fit to ad minister justice ina court of law? (Several voices: was he a competition man?). · No, perhaps not. What I am saying is this that education is not --everything, the candidate must possess personality also. . I can give many such instances, but Twill nqt go into 'personalities. I have given an instance ,of a man who was excellent-as far educational qualifications wore concerned, but who did not possess a personality. Similarly I say that physique is eertainly one of the things· that · ought to he considered. You have· to see whether a candidate. is strong enough to tour about in the hottest part of _the year, whether be can ride a horse and so on. These are qualifications
.>which certainly have ... to beconsidered ... we.have to ·see.·wbether these c .quali:ficatiomr am better judged by the suggestions made by the honourable · member or by the system which the Finance Member has propounded. In mY opinion in the Govemment system" there is· a; greater element of eompeti
-iion than in-t4e system· now suggested by the· honourable mover, because 'in the foqnersystem the manposgessing the best. of qualifications is tak,en in Government service;': .• So I say. that the system propounded by the Finat,1.ce
. Member is superior to that suggested by the honourable mover.
Sir, there has been a, great deal said- about this competition between the , various communities, There is no-harm in being frank and saying that if this competition is introduced th~ agric~Itural classes -who are· backward in educat,ion will suffer.- ·. Ifi~ is. the3 wish ofjhe honourable mover that au· portions o.f the body .pop.tic· in this province should have an equal oppor tunity of competing ·for these posts then ,the system required .would not have been the one that he has suggested. He should have said take so many men from class :A, so many from class B and so many from Class C and so ma.ny from class D, taking the best men in those classes by competition if -necessary.
Sir, I just want to say one word more. There was .a hint by my honour able friend on my right that there should be a Public Service Commission. I am afraid I am not at one withhim, (Hear, hear) because he-has not been .fair to himself nor fair to his colleagues in this matter. Just think for a mo ment, who is this commission to consist of ... This commission will consiRt
"RESOLUTION RE FILLING OF POSTS BY OPEN COMPETITIVE EXAMINATION. 89-1
0: PUNJAB LE(HSLATI E COUNCIL. i
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[il I I h Hon. Malik Firoz Khan Noon. I i
'oft e same sort of.humun beings as , are of this pro,,i•1c~. si n is to consist of the same class o peqple as the hJaqs f de
,a d , "uisters and Members then, whe e dtjes the differfl~c~ c me . ::W . s.been said. that the heads 61. <le rtments and - the ;mern ers \. µ ar13 approachable. Do you ima . e ~h~t the menib~rs oft
::!si n · illbe such .gods that they will ot 1* approachable ? The a p oac~a?le as the head~ of d?pa ments row are. I Aga ; if a o , ssron, then who will decide _ to hvllether ther~ ~ho, d 'h' · adan or one Hindu or one Sik as its members. ti Dtlmk /t ~ exists at present is cert_ainly.far u_pepo1·. to_t_he RytJm t_lia_t_
- d e for the future. I thirik vou- ust 'wait till all hJ e mm ·o: t e hi same l.ev.el·.·.qf• · __ edueat .. ion ~'30 th t m_· )hi•- equal op~o1u itiesl
. st n his. own chance, _ ·· · , i: .: : I l · · · udhri D1ili Chand : Sir, I oyf: 11 . .
· " That the question be now put." I ! 1
· • H. D. Craik: Sir, may I a, k ona question of t~~e -hair ~e a. e is-~ot closed to-day before 4 0 clo4, rill the di~c~ss'on O
Jo ed. till 'I'hnrsduy? .: ! •. I j -
esumed on the 21~t. i i : l · I ,
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' ardar Ujj~ SiQgh: Sir, I ne er thought that, $0 !m ch be i ported in the debate on the r solu~io:n that I na~e mov , _ ~r was nothing further from my · d t}:jaJli to seek to ~eop the
" _ o!_ Q__ class against 'another by movi t~is ~·esolut,ion. I _ at, I fa t was that all <:Jass monoploy sh ld ~e _removed a;;ltQgiher sh d be fnir field and no favour. ut as Ilsee that tl e ~t osp B u e is surcharged with the spirit o eommunalism I o In wa t e. eeolution to vot~. (Hear, hear). accpr4ingly beg 10~'ve to
e resolution was by leave wit raw!n. : i I ' I
- I , . ! ' _-: .: i ! l . RESOL UT,iON ~E LICENSE FOR P YIN(f: l\f OTOR OARSj Afi LOB ES
· _BETWEEN PATHANKO E Atm; DALHO'OB~E.1 .
: · ': • - da. ~ · Raj [Jullundu -cwtl-L~dhiana (~4n- uh&$rnac~ ·_ ·R _ ] (Urdu) : Sir, ·in view. of the pr mise given to me by he
ret · ; I do not want to move the fo owi~: resolution I=+ - _ , :.. ····• . •• . ·11 ..Con.ncil recommends to the Governm .ntthat a small comm~~~ e nsistd of th fol
" i<i..,. iig officials and non-officials be appointed to consider in all its aspectsith qu~sffe. n of . nt- , -i-p.g c ea~dfixingthe.~tureratesofhireof torcji.rs~ndlorriespl:yin~ twee atha kotes
r , 11;nd ~-lhtlSJ.e and subllll~~s report before the e d o{ tulr- I : . · · · - •_ 13,aizada Halls RaJ, . ! , . ::
&rda.r: Ho.bib UUah, t I ! . · Ohaudhri Rii.m Singh, , ,
• /.fhe-Deputy C<iJP-znissioner of Glll'dllep , an~ • ! Th_-.- e Home Secretary to the Punjab over~. ment." l j ·
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The question is that thatjresolution be adopted. Cha:udbri .Afzal Haq-·· {Hoshiarpnr-cuni·.-T.Judhiana, Rural ) (Urdu) ::
Sir,. such resolutions as the one· under eonsiderasion · have more than once been. discussed in this. honourable· House a.nd • }• unanimous. verdict . had al· ways been g1ven in fa vow: of the i;elease- ofpoliticaLprisoners. It is not.
_ politfoort tho part of. the Government to disregard the wishes of tlie .Honse in. this respect when the various movements such as the Ahli and then<>n· co-operation movem~nt~ have gone. lie.t the-Government release the Mar-. tial Law .prrsoners and those wJlo were sent to jail in oonneetion with the Aka.Ii movement as well as under section 144, Criminal Procedure Code •.. I do not want to depict what is going on: no~~a-days. But Twould submit this. much that the Musahnans being most favourably inlpressed with the. well-known speech of His -Excellency the Governor of the Punjab, have suspended the civil disobedience at the instance of the Khilafat Committee •.
Mr. President: Order, order. May I asl the honourable member to speak to the question now before the House _that is, the release of po litical prisoners who are undergoing imprisonment ? This question has nothing to do with the recent events which took place at Lahore.
. . Chauclhri Afzal Haq (continued in Urdu) : Srr, J do riot want to. discuss .the ease of undertrial prieoners." ... I: was refen-ing to the case of those persons who have been sent to jail for the offence of .offering civil disobedience to the order of the District Magistrate, Labore. Sir, the Government cannot maintain its prestige by inspiring awe and fear in the m~ds ?f.the peop]e,. A good Government:alwayslooks to the~best means of mamtaming law and order. If you really wan~ to pacify the outraged feelings of the people release the political prisoners; There are two ways of doing. so. First the special remission granted at the time of Jubilee and such other occasions to the ordinary prisoners in accordance with ·the instructions .issued in Ma 1920 may also be granted to. the ¥a.rtial Law prisoners ~n4 I hope that th!.· Government would be able m this way torelease a maJor1ty of them. - In ..
RESOLUTION RE. RELEASE OF POLITI04L PRISONERS.
. . Satdar 'Han Singh [Ambala Division (Sikh), Rural](Urdu) : Sir.- I'cl,eg to move that- · .
" This CotinciI recommends to the Government to forthwith releas~ all political pris oners' now ... undergoing imprisonment who were convicted and imprisoned for- offences committed against the State." ·
In doing so, I may submit that the prisoners for whose release I am now· urging are not crimina.ls in the. ordinary .. sense. They:· were incarcerated'. simply because.they wanted. Swaraj Iorfheir country .. Those· movements have now altogether subsided and, therefore, it is quite improper to keep,·. -them any longer in jails. Besides a n.ajority of them have already .come out of jails after undergoingtheir sentence and only a few of· them are rotting in them. The Government, under these circumstances, will be well advised to release these remaining prisoners at once, With these few words Leoni-
. mend the resolution for the acceptance of the House. Mr.iPresident : The rssolunon proposed runs :-~
"This Council recommends to the Government to forthwith release all politioaE a prisoners now undergoing imprisonment who were convicted and imprisoned for-
- offences committed ag!l.inst-the State." •
·89s:
I
I PUNJAB LEGISLA IVE i couNCIL. i (*s
- - .,,_ \ I ' • S. ikh Muhariunad Alam.] J _ . ! ! .
· CJ) whether it is- a fact that th sai __ Sub-Judge retus cl p iss on _ to his said reader to offer is ~rayers durinJ eou t ho rs;
·tq) whether the Government is- war~ that in a 11u~li me ing - he ·_- __ -= · ----~ M- uslims:of Lyallpur emp atfo~1ly protested! a$ai st t act on
· of the said Sub-Judge. ! i _ :"' ~) _whether it has come to then ticelot.the. Gover~e (th
~- · Bahadur _ J)ewan Som N th, i District an4 Se sion Lyallpur, timely interven din ~he matteJ.: ar).dja owe reader to perform his relig gus ,lu~ies ; I I
i) whether. the Governme:i:it is warf,that in a _riuijli me Muslims of Lyallpur offer d th~rr heartfelt tha s to Dewan Sahib for this abov act/' f kindness ; j I
~ whether it is a fact that eopi s o, the resolutil'ns p sse in said public meeting, were orwip:ded to- !
(i) His E~c~llenciy the Go~ rnor( 1 J
(ii) the High Court, . · . ,f --i I .,-_ ~: ,(i~ t~e D~p_u~y 0oJrul!-iss.io_ r ~f·.~;yallpur,
1 , ·,
-- (1io __ ) the D_ 18_ tr1~t and Session J114g~, Lyallpur and ': a: _ . _ : ('D) the press , 1 • i
-) :wh~t~er the Go':_ernme~t ·has led ~ny inquiry ip th .: _wit~_ ~hat result ; l. - I f.,.
if answertto questions (d), (e) nd (f) be in the affirin _ : -_- · the: G~vernm.ent intends t ta~e ~ny actio~ a~a st
, :/{wtJ!;::~!S1~~~lll'.abl~- Fi a~~f~emh~r ofl t~e Gov e t- ·~ _ _ ~fter his. kno~lod~e of the s id .opcurren?es b~s ~e~t an nrth r · :: -:-:~:.: ~~~t!on~.1~ this c_once_r and.what, If an!J?: _ _ __
- ·Honourabl• Sir Geoffrey eM•ntmorency: ~a) The - otde f G iV iflllllent are to the efiect that I aveJ?f .absence slio¥di be • en n
id y to such Muhammadan employ es of GovernmeQt l:W'-o for 't or a. cient period to enable them to atte*d the J uma !r,ri9-y rs, ovid d ... hat h time sospent is made up:, if n essai'y, outside t~ei o dina. offi e- 9ur r : the same or other days of the eek.! ; i ,,-~., ,., - . -~ -------- -c-cc -- - . . -- . . .. ----···i". -, i
' ( ) and (c) No. - - .: 1 - : 1- - ;"{ Yes, on~Wednel!day, the l~th of fardb 1927. _ I _ .
- :- '. · I- ' I - _ ) A statement to- - this effect was mad~ :in a resolution asse , e.et · .referred to: ht part (!J) of the UeJ'!tiori; but Go~ern ent
- ·now e _ge whether it is.correct."_ _ 1 : _ I t-- _, ;,·2 ( } ~~s~h\t~ ::!~~i!~~~~- sh~ t~J-the incideni J~o - ·;I _
ed. es a:¢. _'The~a.cti9n_ of the Sub-Ju ge ~n refusing p~dni sion ere o_ 'contrl!,v_ene the orders of Gov rnment in any w~~- It is
a overnm.ent is aware, usual to nt ~overnment e~pl yee •t es for saying theirprayer1;1 during o ce hours except Qnl _ '.day . -}'I~>~·~: - - - - - - - - , :k i _-: _ l L
- . . " 1
I I !
;-.
!- !
-------------- --·----· ------·- --- -----
B2
. HEAD¥ASTER, GovERNMENT H:cGH SoHOot; LAROJ:t:FJ,'.
~:. · ··366. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam : Wtll'cthe' .Hon~~able Ministet for Education be pleased to state - . . _ .
(a) the qualifications of the Head Master, Government .Techmcaj School, Lahore, regarding his practical knowledge of mechanism, ·
. carpentry or any other technical arts; . .
(b) the age ofthe said Head-Master; (c) the period of service of the said Head-Maater, (d) thecomplaint, if any, against the said Head-Master: (e) whether it.is a fact that the said Head-Mas~er has in addition.
. . i' to his own duties to do inspection ofall the Tec_hmcal Schools . of the Division ; · · · · · · ·
.: (f). whether· the: ~aid ·Head }Waster ha's. to perform. the inspectit>ri · duties· __ _. ·· - · - 0
· •
(i) duriilg his school hours from 9 A. M~ too P. u. w1thoiit any hindrance to his own.duties in the school ; and .
(ii) has to order t_he boys of other schoolsjo 1:e~ain present. · .: in their schools after their SOhO?l ~OU!f!JOr his inspection; .
. (g) lio~. matiy hours· daily he allots .to lqs .own. duties ~s i;he Head~ . Master of his own school; · · ' >:::':: . .
. , . (h) ·whether the :-said .multifari~u~ .dnties pr_evEJ~i 1h;·_said~H~ad~ · ~> :·.:-·~ ~ <Maste:dn an;·fway from,dev~ting 1:tjs whole Jime in the ilF. /':_;:-. -·,::: . '. '. teres\ _<>f W,s o~D:]8-ChJ~l ; . ~ t , •. • : ,· _ r_ ~ : '.:,, :.,{/ \,; · -~_:/]
·. ·:~ ~:,: (i) woother ~ is:_trMJhat,at. the_ mee.thigc-i>f the ,Punjab Legis~~iv.t . \ ;~-:~.= .. f ' ... ~fo~c~ ]t:idustf.i~s·(fommitt·e~. certainproposais 'W&eaQeep~~(i,=' '. ;-;;.,,,_··: :·:i···whfoh',ltinied'~}doingaway with;th_~- necessity' of ~the-.;ECea4:: ·
· :· _M_a~~~actinginadualcapacity;·:::,.·r;~_-. · .. :·--,~., -~ :-i c(J) if answers to questions (e), (f) an:a·(h) be in the'affirmative, whit:
. .' sf:e~sthe ~ov:ernment_proposes to·take in the ma.ttef?· . . ·- c • _The -Hono~able Mr. Ma!I,~ Lal : (a} ~The Head-Master:, Gov:ern
ment Technical School, Lahore, has had ~2 years' experienee in the organiza2· non of the teaching of crafts and· has also been ii!'tov.c:ti with the req uirements: of Industrial work. He has written a book on wood-work which has been prescribed by the Text Book Committee as a text ~o_<:>~Jo~ industrial schools •.
(b) so years. ' ·· · ·- · - · -··· ; · ··. ·-·· -· . _ ' '. .. . _ . " . '( e). -so years, out of which 24 years hav~ been ~pent hi- tlie_Government
· !recbnical School. _ _,__ .. (d) The Honourable ·Member is referred .to -tne_ -offi~ial communique
issued by the Punjab Government in March last. . - · · : : . (erYaa:· . - - ...
(!) There is no local iµd11§#faJ. :schoot - hence the question' does not arise; - · - ,: ·:~::. ·· · · , " ~ - · '(g) Whol.e time, w ~f)ll_ he is at heiidq~ter@, viz,j 9 ~A. M. to 4 P. M;; in
the winter a:rid ~-80 .i. ·M. tol2 middayin the summer~ .·. . _ . . · . : (h). The answer.is in the negative: - - . .
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
I
-_ -.,l,>U-NJAB LEGISLAT VE COUNCIL. 0 21s ·- . I I _
-- _ • Manobat D~l.] - : I : - -·- i) - The honourable memher has n t specified avy in~et·: g a
uoh ecisionis thought to have been kert. But the q~eiti n of pector of Industrial Schools is nder the .considertfo of
i
, MoNEY~LEND ' f:sr~L. I . Sardar Habib Ullah : Will hl Honourable Fi.nano Me er b
teas d to state tli,1:1- probable date on bicij the Govem*1ei>t pro cses t ~~ u __ e -~he Money-L~ders' Bill in the Co"4cil ? j I _
, :tfo11ourable Sir Geoffrey de on~orency: ~te ati sng esti s regarding ~egisla_tion, all of wb ch *esent elemetitli,. f di ult
__ _ e _ r the CO_?S1de~t10n ?f_ the G,ov mm1e~t_. _ I a1? Ij.o~ -a -tknn k ,;a -statem.ent regarding. t~e da e ofrmtroduct1-0nl 31t. rese
___ :_en.twill ma;ke .oryu~~~} ~.tate _ ~n_t_Ja_ ~::a Iater datr· I _, _ ·--" I I I r:
.. 'PE*SION 'Es:. : , ! - .• - -sardar:Rabib ~-;_-:Will he *otiourable hA oe
leas s ate·(a) if the new rules for pensio are llllder oonsideratio . ; '"' f · · so, whert he -p;oposes to iii trod ce them ? i ! _ - -
.• _ Hon~ura~le _ Sir Geo~e,: de~on!moren~Y-f~-- ·(a) :do a le member ref.era to the Pension ules which were t01lS ue w
- ctamental (Pension) Rules had be n is~ued by the SJ<ir'.~t y o j ma _ e explaine~ that the P~j~b-Go erinhent's views bn1t_os0
ul~s-~w- a forwarded·'f!o the-Gov;ernme t ?f]~l4di~ abo~t_!i~ur· ye :cJ,t· ·a.ttheoraertJof the'.Government of I di~ "!tr~ still awaited,... , h - rq :- tion-=refers-tcfthe rules fqr :pe1;rs onri" hr:provf1foialia~d- subo
s tjic . s a id .office)1l hQlW;11g ~p~al posts; he ~o:wer to frainf 'Yb: ch h e t_ _ ·t.o-..fucal-Gove:mments:b-:,fthe Ci ii SE)rvices-(Govetno~~ Pro ·
ele ti n ·Rules,.1926~ it:mayb& explain tha~·rules are'beii;lg tdlii ad a:rnles·r~femd--to in tbe~atte -pa_i of the ansJe: . -}) =~s~~- --
_- havs:bee11.a;pptove~-l}j:~he Lo tilc°?vrrnment; j_Iij _i~_ire>r- $Si~J :; t_0-_state 8..:t> app.r'OXIdlaAi0-date. - ·1- ' - -! i-. ·,;::.a • .;
.; = -_ :.->·-;;: - - ...:: _:: - _- _-- '!-! .: - > I ,-, =·::"- - ,--;~~ ~:~ - : . . PROSEOUTIN<l- AGENOY -]) ~AGIST~AOY. I I" :··
__ - __ . ~arc!ar __ ~~ib tJPah: Will t~~-\Honourab1e rilia 00 b -pie to state- - i
I I · : - _
: _ { ) ... ,1:1,e~her ~~e Ga.v.e:nmen.t l!~v_e re eive~ ~ny repr?sep._ t~~ ~Jr \ah· ---- · PunJab Muslim League and omother Muslim,bquies:re
_ the prosecuting agency_ and the lmagistracy ~mpl .Y.El.9 . - · .: . disposal of riot oases_ in ~ah re ; ! . . ! 1-. _ - '(V ~ificttlie action taken by·th~ o ernbe1it to remoierth 'gn
ofthe Muslims stated in the· representations ? i ! . _ · - ·e ·HOJiburabici.Sit G~ey Jle __ o~~:or~~y_: ~a): _ ~;; ~-:::'.·-:,
f (bt_ -~· as the alle~~d--grievances ~9 ~~t ir~~t on :a,x_i-y_ ~u~ ~ti basi
o ac ~1 1 , I !
lVol. X-A, page 380.
HAISIAT TAX •
.:i'_ *~+· '&di$~ ~··Gai,ga Rani.:(('), Withrefer.~m,e;tom.y quea•, . tion! N o.18.~6. d~~ed · tl;i.,e l,4t4 ;March 1927. r-eg,a,i:,4ing ,the · J1,aisi!lJt.-t~x-,,will t~ }f<;>nourable.lfiwster.:for Local. S,el.f-<Jovernment be pJease~j9 ~t1;1it0 ~hether, tlj,e.in.att~r h6$ i:eoei:v~-- af~ref-aj. OOilllideratiou of tile. Goverimie~t . ? _ . ~- :-_ (b); If. ·the: answer to ·(a) is ia the affirmative, will: the .. IIondu:rablEt l\iuliat~if<>r: Lpoal:Self,Gov.e~ent be pleased to.state the result of'thasaidf eonsider-ati~n. of the Gev.-er:nment, and· if . .the answ.er;to ( a) is, in the negative,. wi.Utif3;sta.ta,tha:.reasol;1Si fur not doing so.? - . . - . . , .
·, :, The, Honourable.·. Maijk Fitc,z Dan.: l'{oan: (q,)' and (b)~. E'imb,~: oonsideratio;>. o_f'the· lllf;lw,r hQ,s_been: postponed l'.en~_·a .decisio~ by; t]:i,~,· Higli, Goiitj;-on· tlie 'appeal' tl1,at· h'a1t been I~!lge'11'.tt8.~~- the .• l\.eoree_ __ of ~~-- Semor·Suli-Judg,,_ Si~ov. · · .' _ ·· · _ .•. · _ _ . - , -.· - - z •
__ ,. .... -· .. . . . . . . . ..
NEWSPAPERS. -:;:, *371. · Rei Sahib l'.ala Ganga Ram. :. Wilf..the HcniJwabl(), l\temJ:>.er _ for Finance-be pleesedto state :-'--- . . ... . . - . . ~. :_-:-.:: _- (a(wij"eth~,t it is 11, fact that tbe attention' of. th~. Gove~ent)1a;·
. .:..,. : l;>een invited - to an· article published in the -N-i'f4E, di,,teci- th& , · 19th June 1927, complaining against certain papers, Il~m~y,L
Muslim> Ouflook, 7,amindar, Siyasat,-lriqilab, ete., that the said papers have· been exciting the Muslims ·against-the: Hindu. .
· Government officers and· advocating . to boycott· the Hindus ; - (b) whether the Government intends. to take necessary stepsfor stopping
_ su<lh ohjoo,tiQIU!,hle writings: bi all- the pa.per1Lto·whi~(,)ever - community they might belong ? . · ' . - · · ·
.. . The Ho11oqrabl¢ Sir Geoffrey.· deM011tmotenc:y :· (a). Go;~mme~t- 1:ia.s notieed'the article in: question, _ · · - .. -- · ·
_ (b) GovenuneAt. depfores tb,e objectionable writu;i.gs hi.which almost· every -sectio.ll of tl:t~ press constantly indulges; Governiµe~t- does ·its best. to .oheok oy legal action and· otherwise such 1V?iti11gs. '; -- -
. '·'' . --
_ _ CoM:MUN::',L Rio~s AT LAHQJt;lj). ~" .;. , - -- - ,- •·• _ -
>;. '*370; Sarci~· Habil> lillah : - (a) Will the Honourable . -, ·:Fm•!. Member be cple!M?~d. to . state. whether . t];l_e .ijov~ent -:i;~eived. any o:fµcial
. r:e:~prlffro~; th~ l~caf·autborities regatclµig tJJ.~ ·.o.rigiJ:ta.,,id:,in~ide~t,11,~fth~: c:ommunal 11e:ts at'Lahore? - · .. . . - ·· :
. · (b) Ifso, the date on which this report was first submitteiby the }i)o~.f authorities ? - · · · · · - ·
(c) . Will· the Honourable Member be pleased to Jay on the table a copy of tbifq:ep~rt. .. ?- ' · · · · ·· -
Th~ Honourable. Sir Geoffrey deMontmorencf: - . No report baa been called fod;r~m tl:Je local authorities, as the fa.cts.arww.ithgi. tMJm:owledge QlJJ:te lcca.l' G9verrunent~·who were in Labore ~durinK tha-tiJnP of the dis turbances and' kept· in 'touch . with the" situation and:·. its '.:: developments throughout. · ·
899f• · ·· STAR.REI,>. QUE$~ION.~ A~D.ANS.'Yl.l!\$. . .' - . -·. . . -.
' I
Ju
i
( ) Whether his attention has be l W'.~Wll to a typ~ Of scree in th_e Punjab which glor es vice and mi~epr ent
·_, emotionse 1 • I 1 •
( ) if so, what steps the Gov~r}1m nt ~roposes to taLei o has - taken to suppress such film ? i i r I
. . . l . ' I I Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i- usam : (a) No. I The ho presumably has ih mind a parti ula1i film or filmsl I I£ he -
e t e ames of these, with a note of t e place and the ~ppr xim · f th · exhibition, I shall be glad to I ok into the matte:ti. -- Gov · al a s ready to ,take suitable action in regard to any1film of a
,har tl'. .. i' i: I
!
· _ -- • Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Wil : e pl a_ ed to state- .
,· I : I i I.
LAY$, ! i ' ! i .
the Honourable ~eye
'SOREEN
- Honourable Malik Firoz . orii and it will be decided aceor
· ent,,
PUNJAB LEGISLATI E COUNCIL.
- I
CHILDREN A D qNEMAS, 1
thel Honourable 1R~v nue emb : . l
i ~ l '. I .. ; !
f) whether there is any restriotio imposed on the bhil · age for going to cinemas a d theatres ; i i ( ) whether tlle Government is eo sidering' t.he advis~blli y of
- ing some sort of control on children in this re~p~t ? Honourable Mian Sir Fa -i-Husain: (a) :Nh.
: I : .: ) The question was only recently xhalistively consi~ete
ent hen it w3:s found that it would re e:itrem.Jy a.i:ffi~u~t o de a t lass of persons whom it was proposed to protect and still ore · _
a o ca - an executive order against he admission of I chilten t . _ine and theatres. Moreover, Gove merit, has ample i pow rs t ban
--------~-- Ji _Q~ __ is_fo __ r a-n-y goo __ d reas?n objecti na?_le·- . • RestrJotiq,ns_•' o.,_-_t_ ~e . · p!a
.f- ·_o__ "ti9p~ble ~s have hitherto be n _ imposed without 1 ~son ~ti- o - !.,b~ __ en juveniles and adults, but th hannful effect ot suo~ npo
· o _ arsons is elwa_ys prominently efor~ the mind o~ Go em t. · ispo • of such-cases. I may inform the honourable 1*emb r t -_ · th
. ns. . tion of ~ ~P~'1:l board of censors for the 1;'unjab is Jio~ und to~~ det ti n, It is hope4 that the new oard will be aotµall fun omn £011 ·1 ng, and it ~will then be in- a: po tiofr to paf .piirtfoule.r atte
-· ~ . jj_tQ tl1Ji.t to :whioh .tba. honourable ' r has. referred~ · . -
PuBLIOATioN OF Booxs. · _ *378. Cbaudhri Ahal Haq : Will the, Honourable Minister _for Eduoe.-
-tion lie pleased to state - · (a) whether it is a fa.ct that Mr. Godley. during his 'tenure of the
office of the · Director of. Public Instruction of the Punjab issued -orders that no · of!icer - of the · education department without his express perniisaion WM-entitled to give any doou· m.ent or book to a.pnblisher fol publication; · - ·· ·
. (b) whether it is a fact that he further ordered that in no ease the name of th~ officer should appear on a.ny book; _ , .; ~ .
(c) whether that order referred to in (a) a.nd (b) is still ·i,n· for~ ; if not why not ? ·
I
.. .
GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS IN JULLUNDUR DIVISION AND JHATKA': · . CONTROVERSY. . .
. *ffl. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable: -~ter for ~ducation: be pleased. to· state -
(a) the number of Government schools Ill Jullundur·Dimaion in which Jhatka controversy had arisen last year amongst the students ;
(b) the names of the officers who inquired info these cases ; (,;) whether these officers sugg_ested 11,ny .ren1edy to effect1vely0.oheok
the cQJ:itroversv 9 · · · · .... _ - - - -- ·- ..;
The· Honourable Mr. Manobar Lal: (a) Government is not aware - • :of any such controversy .. ·. . .
'.Ii) ;.11d (c) Do not arise, ·
CoMPULSOBY EDUCATION IN JAILS. - ~:_ ·- ..
". - *376. Chaudbri Afzal Haq : Will the · Honourable the.:· Finapoe 'Member be 'pleased to state the nanres of those jails in the province wlierj the system of compulsory education is expected to be introduced tbu
'year? · · · .' . · ..: ·· · _ . _-- :, - The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: :A_ sfstem: -of
- elementary education for persons under 30 years of age is ·being introduced in the Rawalpindi Jail this year.
_; .:. - : STARRED - QUES'rIONS · AND ANS WEBS.
COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE POLICE, .
*375. Cbaudhri ~l .Haq-:: Will the Hon<iurab1; -thf Finance :Member be pleased to state - '. _ _
(a) whether it is a fact that relief committees of different oommuni· tjes subsequent to Lahore riots made severaJ _ complaints against the high-handedness ofthe police to the Superintendent of Police, Lahore, and to the Insp0ector .. ~neral ot Folj<,_e ;
(b) ·what steps,if any, th.e Government has taken on these·compl!iint~-? · - The Honourable Sir Geoffrey :deMontmorency: (a) No; .-
(b) Does not arise.
r
·COfOPERATORS, !
• Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Vi ill the Honourable ...baple1:1,sed to state~ • I l
: I i a} whether any. instructions wer issued to the Me.gist tes
· - year 192-lL to the effect t - Secretary and !Pres dent . ~ongress an~- K~ilafat or nisations be not! gi,vep m
_ _ _ _, six mont~s' ~pr1sonment a~: __ . .. i i ; -: · - -;.·: b) whether agam m the year 1 2 inetructions w~re 1 sued
_ severe seatencesto-all.the n-eo-operators ? J i - ', ' Honour~&!· - ~ir . ~ffrey de~ontm.orenct :1 he
h parts to this question 1s m the n gatrte. l ; - I
: I TEXT-Boox Co EE. ! _
Chaudhri Afzal Haq : WiJ! he Honourable M~istJr for on leased to stat~ , . ! ·
- : I '
_ -~). the year in: wbich: the Text- ook' ColllllUttee ~as onst -r.: :_ -- - fwh~tlier it is a f~ci'- that sine the fol'])lation of th Tel- ~. ·
- Committee its constitution s not been changed' · -- - · - ·
·:-;; .: :.-(J--,-_._~--h_-~i __ her __ th_-e)~ove~~~nt is c nsid_erfug the de~i~b 'ty ·_-_ no , :. -~c: --, - -::- ~h.angin1fits-constitution? i i : - •.• t-1"" -··· - • - "-- - . : · : - ••.• • • I • ! ·1
.: .: .. -;UoJJourablel Mr. Maaohar ,;1 {a). The fultij11b Te Boo Qo:am.~·t1i· ee was el\tal!lil.he_cl: in Jij7'7, bu . 'IM'1 register(lg. ~r-~n Ass iatio . - •. _,_, - _ 890. : '
) e. : ~
. . ··- '
i ' - -· -~:- CASES- OF NON O·OfERATORS; j '
- , _, _ -_ - -,; - Ch.a•~ _ Afzar Haq : . ill : the Hononr~b.l~'. I the · · 'be pleased to state whether it is fa.ct tliat a Judge of the Hi
p ointed. in the :year~ 1922-' to rseo · er ~he cases of thoeo :hon- ors o did not put in their defence ; if so, will the m;m911 able
P ea ed to state the number of such c ses ~ ' ·
Honorable Sir Geof&ey d Montmorency : ! .A . Jud_ e of t , _ , .Q UJ.1i_WaF, ~pp(){"9t~d in)92~ to ex min~ all cases_ of a, J?<!_ ~icaJ ~ s i Jit, : .. J~\t~~te!':-~ ~1-ich th_e offends ha~ been arrested: ho twee. _l\f!\:
, :,. ~- ~·~~JJ>ril ~h~ 3?t~, 1{)22, and · ·whi~h they had ~ot; d feµd the lv r utilized their right of appeal. The; nun bor of Slfch c~ses _ a~ tl
· = ~6 persons. · :
Honourable! Mr. Menohar : ((.I) No, N - :. .. - r ~ '--- - o.
: :.::__,; ,l _1?,Qes_ not ~tis~ •.
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_ ~~N~A~- LJi;<USLA lVE :()OUNGIL. . ~ 21s
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Ton:WA'rIO.N FACH;_ITIES.IN THE Hrsasn DISTRWT.
_ _ *:t83~ Lala Joli. Parshad : Will the Honourable the Revenue, Member-please state-:- ·-
(a} il it ~s. a fact that zamindars of Hissar district have repeatedly lleen requesting aJI. officers of Government who have been, visiting Hissar from time to time to extend irrigation faci~ , lities in.the HisS!3ii district.; if so,wha~ action, if any, the Gov-· ernn.ent intends to take in this direction ; .
(b) wbeth.er ~t hi 1.\- fli<it t];lat Hissa» has. been frequently visited by - faniine~ and f.ailure of crops during the last S5 years? If so,_, .-
. wi,l] G,qvernment consider. the advi~ibility of appointing a com- · _ _ mj,ttee to suggest measures for g~tting rid of these famines ?, _
. The Hcinounible -Miala Sir Fazl..i-Jlusain : (a) The Honourable· Member is informed that Government is aware that the zamindars of Hissar · District have represented that irrigation may be extended to that distriet.. but as all the existing supplies on the Western Jumna Canal and Sirhind Pa~l a,e, fully utilized-1_1,t, p;i;e~nt no, water c_ail be mane av~ble ftom these oanals for extensions in this tract. In order to provide irrigation facilities, ~o this tra~t ~l;te B~akra Dam Schem,e was- taken, up by Government, and to· show what. action ha.s been .taken on tl;iis---s.cl1eme the honourable -member is referred tcr thec.r~ply given' to part (c) of Pouncil Q~~ton No. 190·; (ville Volllille X-A, p~e 572) by Bai ~~h_ib° CluL~dhri. Qhh_otri .Bal'Jl. His Mtention-is als<f iii'1i:ted tojhe speecp QY 1.:(on.o~t1tb~ 1\i)~i'AP~ Revenue on. pagea 459-461 'of'V,olume-:X:.-£ ofthe Punjab Legislative · Council Debates-
CANAL AND REVENUE AMAl,GAMATION'. -- -_. : .. - -~· --;.-_.
ti:; '. *3Bt. -, -f.ala Toti' - ParsLacl.: - Will_tJ!ti - II9n'.olttab.le the Re.v~n~e--I\;te,ni~~ please state whether he is now in a position to. announce the. decision of the- ·
- . :Q()Netnme:Qt-wit'h respect to- the eanaJ and revtt:r;iu,e an:uilg(imatiop !iow be~ ~~dn:etedt:ow the: Western- J~mna . Canal· i' If so, will Jw · 11loa~e Tu,y _a cQp_y · ot..it-,onrthe table,?- - - _:: · · ·. - - - - - - · · - ' · -
-. -~e-Honow-able:~ $ir ,~~i~lf~~ ;, Yes., .. . -,,:It waa·in purstianee of a clearly expressed wi{!~0Uh~-Legislative1·Counriir
_ that the amalgamation of. the canal andrsvenue staffs· was undertaken .as an~ experimental measnre ou the Western Junina Ca~l. It has been in operation . fo:pnore than three years. In order to-watch the working ofthe experiment - the Honourable Member for Revenue and the - Financial Commissioner· visited the localities under the experiment in 1925, and :the_ former again -. visited them in 1926: · After' very careful consideration Government has arrived at the· decision . that the amalgamation . of the. canal and revenuer
-staff's- has .not worked.sueeessfully, and has therefore decided to revert to the position which existed before the experiment with one modification, viz., single patwari system in place of two revenue and ea~l patwari system. Qn_e pnportant change, however, has been introduced in the rules governing: t-~e· assessment. of _kha.raba on the canal, and under .the .new rule Collectors. and Commissioners will be given. joint control along with the irrigation' 9fficiaJsin the_assessnient of kooraba in estates wherethe damage to crops·
• extends to a eonsiderable area, and al,so in cases of wide-spread calamity.
- ': ST~~RED -~UESTlONS- AND ANSWERS. - .. ·..,_
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PUNJAB LEGISLA IVE poUNOIL. [I 2ts I I · s· F 1 · H · J , 1 1 an ir az -1- usam, ! : 1
"ch it will be observed that Go ernment is takingla.11 o b · relief to these distressed areas. · ! · i ·
) Hissar has been visited by fa. · e t"Wfce in the las~ S~- ears, , cc io was in 1899, but failure of crop to a greater or less!e
o a- ·of rainfall have occurred from ti.md to time and1Mv: d t 'th . der the ordinary suspension and.remission mies. i Gov mm ~d
fot o.·· 'd!r.that any useful purpose w uldfbe. served bl· I. t~. e' ap · •'tme t
· a o mittee as suggested. I : ! _ . - . i ' i
EXTENSION OF IRRIGATION o T~E SrnsA BR.a!Nc;H.
Lala Joti Parshad : Will the Honournble ~Jv nue tate- I : I
: 1 I - - d) whether it is a - fact .that all applications by ~h1 z · n
· · - extension of irrigation on. he Sirsa Branch b~ve bee by t.he canal officers on th gro~d. that alre~dt. f. ere age of water supply on t is ~ra:nch of thJ' Weter Cahal ; · - I ' i
b) whether it is a fact that. th Goiernment Ca ,tl~ _ has b~en given an additio 1 sui£>ply of 12 cu~e~s the Birsa Branch ; . : . I i
c) whether it is a fact.that ave yl~·ge portion o~ ~h Gov Cattle Farm area irrigate by ~anal is let or: 1e se t
•· individuals for cultivation _urppses, and tha tµe attl of the farm derives little o no benefit from t e ca al
e Honourable Mian Sir F •i•llusain: (a) tJs. The · upp ie in the river Jumna do not a .mit! of any exte~s~o -of i · . <> t. a.Western Jumna Canal either b. lift pr flow. I ! .
b) Itis proposed: to increase the . upply to the Fa~m! fr m t Sir a by 12 eusees, but a reduction on the Hansi Brancfu wil be ade t
• . - - ,- : ; i -I e time. i ! i e total increase to the Farm will e le~s than 8 cusJcJ al oget
c) Yes. A small portion of cult able irrigated a~e~ i let ena t I the average for such area for t e pa~t 8 years be~~ . .· y 1 ~t. . e are~ thus let out includes sm n isolated plots, t~ie it i _ e t vate directly ; also plots on th bou!ndary of the] cult vate
- t t e arm. In addition Bir lands r uired to be brough,1i der - ion. ar also let out for purposes of cl arint and levelling, i w · ch
he 1 t rests of the Farm. , I
• I I PUNITIVE PoL Olll Tu. ,
: I , • Lala Joti Parshad : Will he Honourable t:h~ ·se state- . ! . i . I ' a)·. whether Government has rec · ved any represent,afio
reaidents of Rewari again t th!" imposition ,of: p , tax; I : -
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b) whether a pllDitive police has been posted thetei o -- Hindu-Muslim riots whioh too~ place-last yeai:;
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SLAUGHTER OF oows. *387. - Lala - Joti Parshad : --·. Will the Hon.ourabfa~ FinaDCti Member
~be pleased to :stat? - ~ (a) .if it is ·afact:~that.instiuctions.were issuect t~ -the Karuar disf;#ot
· anthorities in the year 1926, asking them to- see that cowi · are-slaughtered in the slaughter-houses and .ao.t in the private'
· housmron the-occasion ofBakrid.;
Musrn BEFORE Moscuas.
*386. I.ala Joti Parshad : Will the Honourable the Finanee Mem -ber please state-
(a) whether several prominent Hindus .and ,A:rya Samajists of Rewari - , are being prosecuted in Gurgaon for playing music before
,mosquds; - (b) whether any condition about stopping music .before mosques -
was imposed .in the license issued by police authorities ; and, if not, why the prosecution has .been ordered ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: _ (a) Twenty·one · ,.persons are being prosecuted, not for playing music before mosques-but for
provocation to rioting, rioting and obstructing public servants in the fils· .oharge of their duties'.
(b) Does not arise.
(c) whether it is a fact that.Mr. Pool, the special magistrate who tried the riot cases discharged all the Hindu accused and convicted the Muhammadans and sentenced, ~hem to varying terms of
_ . imprisonment ; . . _ (d) whether if; is a fact that the magistratein his judgment clearly.
found that the Muhammadans alone were primarily responsible for the disturbance; . . . . _
(e) whether it is a fact that in spite of this finding, the Hindus alone have been ordered to pay this tax; ·
(fl whether it is a, fact that a number of Hindu residents have by way · · of protest, declined to pay the tax, anµ th9Deputy Commis-
sioner, Gurgaon, has issued orders for its realisation by: attach ment and sale of moveabe property ;
(g) whether Government will · see its way to exempt the Hindus and issue orders for its realisation from the community which was mainlyrnsponsiblecfor the trouble?_ _ _._
I - The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency :· (a), (b}, ·(c) arid ~:~.. .
(e) No .. (f) A certain number both of Hindus and Muhammadans failed to pay
~~fter repeated demands and warrants were issued against an approximately ,,equal number of both communities.
(g) No, because it has been held that the Hindus were equally to blame -in creating the tension which led up to the riots ..
905 STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
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'rUNJAB LEGJSLAT VE, POVNCIL. [ ;2~ST JUL 192 • I : . t ;, tjParsha<l.J : : i :_ . -,
· · ~} wlifthe~ RiPJ,il,~r oruerswere is ued this year also); ·: -. ~ Q) ·. whether th~: ~tt~ntion of the ,overnment has breil, .
· orders issued by the Dep y Commissionsr.] Kil_ al, pennissior; to s~veral mo ll{l.$ in the toW11 :qf f slaugliterjiQws in th.~ir ho es on the occasion of akr
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if it is a faot that the orders of tile Deputy C~i4 caused widespread unres aad. cliscontE41t r Hindu inha~ita,nts of· the e_ mbluillas ·in Part~c r a. whole town m general ; an if s?, whether Gqv~ ent ~ to take any steps to respee the: sentiments o, the Hin ~, munitv in future. on such ceasions ? I '
Honolll'ld,le .Sir Geoffrey deMo~tmorenc~ t (a) 1. • · , ,. I ' I I . '
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anipa] Hindu S~b4a, but _ ent d . not consider ~hat tl\e Hindu have any genera] gro d
'lain . The mohalladn regard to whi permission has ! bee gr laug t r kine in private houses are who y ot · predominantly uha a.d
ha s and were chosen as a result of ommendations piad~ by Hin uslim Extra Assistant Commissio ers who held a joint J enq
be o and took the.advies ot the leadi g persons of both icqmtuni i s. i . : !
- J;)EPUTY Comnse NER, GunoAON. I · _-j
• Lala Joti Parshad : Will t e Chief Secretary] kin y s · ... '.j ( ) whether the present Deputy Commissioner, G*rga n, h j
postec there for about six earsr; i : . j
( ):whether thn:-_is any DeputJ: C m~issioner. in. th~ tlllfjab _ bee~- permitted to remain at qne;_ station f1r
1 s oh
- p.enod; - i • ! . -- ' . . I ' ;
( X whether it is a fact that du · 'g t~e same peri<>;d ja out Deputy Commiseioaers ha e boen posted to rhie- eig cµstri~t, 9! Hissar ? · . ·
& B .. Cr,aik : (a) Yes. ( rNo. I
: \ < ), ·es. : ! J COllMUNICATIONS L.AR fuslc,
. . , . . * _ • Lala Je>ti Parsbad : Will th~ Honourabl~ i i'inist •0 grio e please state whether the Gov rlll'.Qent is aware th11tt her .
. . · eta ' roads or other ways of communi tion lll the Hissal"j <Ust . ot, a · .. .: h __ ta.J;is·j·J·._he. a_:dqµa.., .. rters a.re.not even rea~~ .. eii •. by~o~ds :; ~ .. n ~.ifs . eps th Government proposes to take remove this. mconv:e iene
· '. . . llcmour-1,le Sardar Jogendra Singk: Gov:emtnent is no f,\l! ~ ots as stat~~ ~.Tliere· are in Hi sar soma 210 miles.of rail
. ~ .. ; -; 7, .JDiles,of i;net!\U~d:road existing- F undru: construction. Of t htil a two sub-tabsil hea.~qn~, ·e-fSma., Hansi an . B
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GovERNME~ o.iTT.GE FARl\t, :His'si.a .. _ ~ '·, _::·.::._·;·~-~: ·~bla.JC)ti·Parsii.td:. Wili th~ IIo;~~abie_~inistedor. Ag_riou.J~ . turii'be:pleased to.state-.- . '' ,'.
. (a). whether iii is' a_facif that at the time'of acquiring lands 1or the Gov- - -: :;.,::,: : .: ernment Cattle F~rm; Hissar, express agree;m_ents were entered'.
,, ~j:,>-~t~1if·~~.~f ~lSt~;~~;~~~~;~;~t~ '{bJ. the ·wtal-\i'rigated.-area_ under t}le Qov~tnriiei>.t- ; Cattle - farm, ··. . Hissar/showing.how:much ofit h~lbeen.leaied'to.tiiiiants 01\
. rent during the year 1924-,;25, 1925-26 and J 926-it-· respeo-
.•• '0:theji.;;:Jie·Saidar·Joge~llt~'::~~l{i.···it];~~,~~~t't~=ii~\tii:: t~il.ifq~~,it;JqP, js~ot yeHeady~ •. Jt .will b'e° coriifui.iufcated t6·i!i_e~ 4nrt:6ftr~'ble _~
·m~~.b~1;-wlien reaily~: - ~,-;;;:. ~ - - · - ; ...... ~~ ;,;.~<· · · ··< • :.. ...;::;~~ - (cs\_··;... - -- ---···-----~
~-- --~~ ~ .<= ... -~,,:t ' lliNs:i:•·AND mniw ANi:YuifoiP'Ar:.iTIES'; - .*391. :Lda·Joti .Parshad: Will the Houollrahle Minister .for ·:uooa(
$eli~Gover-nni.ent be pleased to state-- -- _ .. _ ,.00, •• __ ,\t.: ~ , z.. - .
. . (a1 \v1,ether1h_~~Gote~eift:is a;ari tl:(iit _ierio~ ~mpl$intfwere .. . ~: :· made. oy ttie pliJ>lfo to• M~·- Abr!ihain, J;he DeputyCommfssio~ ::
-·-,-. ;: of Hissar, ,som,etime ago:agairist Jhe f worJciilg · ofthe : H.a.nsi· - - .: . a,- and :f3hi'W-ani Ill1;1lliClpau}ies :; "; i · - : : . . . -_: ~ .- , · -·_ ~ ~;~
(b) whether it is 4 fa!!t· that the D-epu_ty Commissioner ~acted- the .:~ .- .two CO!lUllittooS for- Several· ·days and.bis inspection revealed a,.·
.· . · .. ·· _ :very b~d stat~:of aff3:iiiu _'/: __ :5\ ·:· _ "- - ... ~-~·-<.fi:.--~.· .. ,;; :::: :.(c) :wliather; :i~. =ilL a =faQt ·· frhat .. the· :fl9YE!rbrri~nt' bas : a,ppoirited,--~~!I.!e :
' - :offic;ei :to E:}X:a:mine into the wo:clcihg of ·several ·n1unicip_!!,!i_ti~~=? . If so, whether· the Government proposes to ·depute the said· . officer · ~o examine the affairs of tl\ese two :committees also ?
ai:e ~ire9tly connected by wilw~y with Ilissar, to -.T6bana ·and DabWali have · -eircuitoua railway connections, and Fatehll.bad 'has,. :hall llt one · ii.me :a metalled road to the railway, at Bhatt 11, a· road which, ;ufilortun~efy; the.district board has .allowed to fall into ruin. . . . ·, ··~: :;-
• ·0o;enm.ent is h9;wever engaged in schemes of improvement; ' It. hair . zecently. reliev:~ the J)istrict Board-of-the charge. of the Bohtak-Bhiwani and Delhi-Montgomery roads; With the ·improvement and the metalling ;of the latter there will be a. trunk road ruillllilg from end to end·Of the di~triot,,
.. - connecting t'hree •.. tahsils and one sub-tahsil .with Hissar;. ·11Jhe}Ra.ilway .. , Board has sanctioneda, revenue survey being made_for a;railw:ay,ftom Bhattu · . throughFattih.~ad to: Jakhal and the Cominunic~ions Boardis considerin:g .'
. a grant-in· aid 'o L b.alf the co st of,remetallliig the- Bhattu "." F~tehhad . road. , ·i])be Coinmjmi~1,1,tionsJ3oard is·prim_ared to consider otller:.,schetnes of develop-
·. _zherit provided it is' satisfied,' particularly in. the case .of p(ojects of metalling, .that the District,Bo~d will maintain any road, made. . . . .. _, .. ,· .• ..•.. · if -'Thi ;~is,_ed.soh~ttte qf road classfffoation now,b~1fore:;eo;.~;ke~t makes.
: ;geiierou.s provisioil for: Bissarjn th0:mileage of roads~ah:_ea_ij.y_ip. Class I and , pt9Po~edfprQ1assJI/, ._ =: :···
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9ift· STA'.RRED QUESTIONS A.ND AN 3WEBS.
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PUNJ~B. LEGJSLA IVE ~OUNCIL. (i21s ' I . I :
e Honourable Malik Fll'oz an ,' Noon: (a)! and (b). . _ _ c)_ .An offie: r was placed on speoi duty to examirie )th WO _ iVe a~ municipal committees ; but his special duty has! ilo te:r n_d_ - __ e: .a •. s g. on __ e o_n leave .. It is therefore not p. ossibls to adrpt. t e SU ad b the honourable member. , ]. -
,, ':: '_ - -- - -. . . ' : ' . ·1 ·- . -··-. DISTBIOT BOARD ELECTION DRAFT RULES. ' : . . ...
_ ._ Lilhl Joli Panhad ; · .Will t e I(on~ur~ble ~i~ist r fo ' Loo r· ernment be pleased to state- : . l i _
: ( } whether _ the Government h re~eifed any o~j~ot ons • ---!-" •. ' district board election dr ft rules published !in the· - r- Government Gazette, date the 6th May! 19 7 ?
- · ,- whether the Government b s come to any fu).al d · isio ,_ .. __ them?- ! i l · ·
' . ( ) whether jt is a fact that und th~se: draft rulef *g land ,<;\:"." -Wh~ pa~ very large amoun s as ,o~al. rate buf do· ot. -. : :- , residential 'qouse under t e -atj.tb:onty of t~e! stno
· have been deprived of the stri~t board fra.nc~~e- ;~ ( ) whether ~t is a fact. that ·in t _ -se 4rafts rules ~~tine · on
by usmg the word " pa " _ fpr · the haisiat _ t x a word·•!. assessed''· for the and.irevenue undbt! cltuse (j) when _the haisiat tax is ually realisable ; I f :. •. •-
if the reply to (b) and (c) of he question be irl th~ a -'~ wi~ (}_overnment ·stat~ the r asoi;ts for this <!is~iri~~i1 n a
____ action Government eonte lates to take in ~h:e tt _ , .- :Ho~ourable Malik Firoz Kb , N+c,~: (a) Y~. \"_
· ( ). his w.ould_ have be~n t~e eff_ec of ~he draft rui!es1_a . ::0t_ e. _e!~c_t l~ be1~~~em~~~~1-~. t~e r es r f nally_ _ma1et--_
,. ( L e&._ - . ~---: . .. • . i I . . - ! T .. . ( - he ~xpression " assessed to land revenue 'i' is. re si n, and owing to the efficiency of the arrangements
e l.l .. iP . of land revenue there it>, yery tile aiff erence bet\w~e the O pi assessed to land revenue and he i:iwnber who pay. Int o ha' i _ tax, however, there is very gre t difference, ancl i~ h s be
dere ' esirable te> _ ~!}franchif!e only th se yho actually i'p~,i in t e~r. r I
--I--- i ' i ; F TAHABAD DISTRICT BOARD VE NAclrLAR · MmDLt ~c oon
• - Lala Joti Parshad : -- Will he H:obourableMinisr er fo e tio _b pleased to state whether it is fact that the nuin"ije~ of s o. _ t:he r 11 of the Fatahaba,d district ·vern cular middle sch po);, Hiss t "ct, s bout 400, ancl_that there is no hi h sch.ool there; I 1· , - -
) ; whether the opening .o! a high schdol ~n the n~"at ~U:t . e i dera_ tion of the a-nth- orities ? I · _- I i_ ·
_ . Honourable Mr, Manohar : ! The questi4n1! o f oilit_ et fo_r anglo-vernaealer education · the Hissar Dist:itict i If era i · . - :" - i ·
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HEADMASTER OF THE MIDDLE SoHo_oi:., .RANGPUR, MuzAFFA.RGARH.
*396. Lala Bodh Raj :- Wilhhe Honourable Minister for EducJ1,tion plE!a~estate---:- ::-, \ - . 'r : · ·" -= _._ ,-- . . _
- __ "-·(~)-whether it -is a facidhat the Head-Master ofthe 1\fiddle School_ : R_a_~gpJU, Muzaffargarh, at the last middle schoo.I·;ejapnna,tio;.
' - . . . - - withheld the examination fees: of four students with. himself a.;o,d_d.id not sub~t their naµ,i~for the examination; ·--·····--·-
MuN101i>.AL ·aoMMITTEEJ, Sitts.A.. - -*395. , Lala Joti: Patshad. : .. ,Will the Honourable Minister' for Locaf ... - .
Self~Govermnent please· stQ.te-,- - ... ' - (a) whether ifis a fact tijat the pres~nt municipal -001Illlllttee, Sirsa.,
~-lor\the time being eonsist's ofseven11omin~t~d.andfour electaed.: -~- .members ; ,_,, .,-, - - . - . .-. _;
. ~hethe; - .it is a fact tliat' the gener~i\ifectfon' of t1ieHii-1t~ ~~J:,: pality was due to be held in the month of July 1927, and for · one reason or the other was postponed by the DeputyC.ommis·· sionee, ~~sar, t:<> August 1927 ; - · · · -- -
·. Jc) w:ll~the~.it is ~a fact-_that so .far no.cancellation, of -'notification · · . .: : ;~9; t3.2.2l·A.,.nated-thel5th March 1927, has been gazetted and:.
thaJ tlie right of election to three Muslim· and two non~Mnsliin' - - seats. has not yet been restored to the Muslims and no:n-:Muslini$~
0 .,. oiSirsa; - .· · ·
· (d) '\y'hefther she Government propose to issue a notification restoring · · ~hEl right of, election to three Muslims and.two rion-Muslint,
:· _ - seats to the Muslims-and non-Muslims of Sirsa ? - _'.<n.e' llon~urable Malik: Firoz Khan. N~n: (a)~ (b), (c) and (d).:
Yes. -"' - -
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*394. Lala Joti Parshad : Will the Honourable Minister for Local' Self-Government please state-,-
. (a) whether the municipal committee of Rewari is considering the· question of raising the terminal' tax from Re.1! to Rs. 2. or 2! per maund on cloth ;
(b) whether it- is a fact that the price of cloth has 'oonaiderably' gone down since the imposition of the tax at the rate of Rs. ll
_ per maund; (c) if the answers to (a) and (b) he in the affirmative, will the Gov-
· ernment take some action to remove the hardship caused :to the-- public by this change ? · ·. · · ·
Hon'blt! Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : (a) Government have no- inf or-. mabion, · · · ·
(b) · Yes; but terminal tax is levied by weight and never ad valorem. (c) : The initia.tiv_El lies ~ith the municipalcommittee.
MUNICIPAL COMMITTEE, REWARI.
909:' STARRED QUESTIONt:l AND ANSWERS.
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I I i · ,'PUNJAB L""'EGISL.A IVE COUNCIL. : [ ~ls
dh Raj.] · ] i j · b) Whether the District Inspect r ofBchools has r~pt;i. ed t · · to the authorities for ne essair-y. action b~ing ake
him, and, if so, what_ acti n h~s been take~ ag tist . -:,- • : . I : . _ _ _- _ e Honourable'. Mr. Manohar : : (a) Yes, but th fees
:-d~ v''beensubsequentlyreturned. i : . bfYes .. The local authorities are onsidering s!lita~le) a tion. -
- i i I : UNISHMENT OF DISHONEST OR coRkuiPT OFFICIAL~ N T
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• Lala Qodh RaJ: Will th Honourable Mep:ibe for inan e lea. e tate with reference to the answ r toquestion No,l 1~1, aske on t e
. _ ~th F bruary 1!127 : ? '• . _ . . - i . t · I- f · · : : :·
- , ~):~hena~~sof officials ~ft~e J i1 4eparment whp llit_ e ~ _ "ma e" '" .- _ to retJte,.fOmpulsonly , _ - · - L · 1 _ _ I J .
b) the names ofsuch officials as ave been considered!fit for-r enti n and incorporated in the ~e ca~re ? I i
e Honourable Sir Geotlrey d Montmorency: 1 (a) Noti een is usd to three Jailers to the effe t tlia.t their posts • · I be
d edu.ct_i~n wi~A_.~ff-_ ect fro_m. the r t S~pte~ber 19~7,) ~-- d t a:ry claims will ge decided m ace _ dance with the provis - ns
·. Jw9tril Sei:'7i(}8Regulatio11s_: - . -:J T . I I -: . _ •. __ b)' As-there IU'El fwther-rednct1ons tO'-Q'3 made eoneums ly h n
'ppi:> - inents, which are still under co ideration, it is not:po sibl · he a e_s_ of- existing officers who .will e i!).CQtporated pemia ientl -.-: .•... - -·-- ~·-·-- ~ -_ I ! I
eware.;.. --- --'' - 1+· . • . . . ~- :a ~~-r ). ·- __ ". i (:_,"
AILWAY ooM~NICATmN: IN - HE-i HrssAR D1-sT,t Ti - ·- · - .: ~Lala -Joti :P~•hatl: _Will he J!fo~ourable iie~~\-16
_ te whether ii is a fact that no e tension of railw~Yi e _ _ ~en.in the Hissar_.District dnri g ~~e last. fifteenl:rt~ s, a ltet _ t_he.Go.vernment-mtends tom e tbe Radway Bo~d to
;i e:q.si ri of railway line in this district ? : . j ! . - -- . · 'Honourable 1Mian Sir - FazJ..; -H~ : An e~t; - te f
: ~~ti s ohtak wi~b J3hi~a:niiI1Jl:issa~ - ish·~c.t by a- br~a~, ka ge Ii res t under consideration' by the--Rail ay Board, and it 1~ J:io ed.t ano io : to its construotjop will shortly e @r.en. The R~ilwatr _Bo Iso a ctioned a revenue survey being adejfof a railwaJt 4'0Ih Bh ata a ad to Jakhal. · · I I -
I . --"· -- i I, .. - . - - - BARDA F: OSdI. i !.--
.: Rai S~b Lala Ganga - - : [ (~) Will the kJ~ lriab ~-} i, Fin~nce b_!-l pleased to: ~taie_wh her !it is a fact· tp.~t- ard
,.: .. g· .qe_mafes2i~ ~~<?ming~Qf~ and o~e'rp:r;evalent ~ t};le- ro =·:c ·_ t~:manyuJB_p11:tes_ amgllg:the peo fo; r,· : j
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.---· - .. .=_LAHORE "RI0·1'S.'~~ . _ .. ,_ ~f-91.!. ~·;.,~kul Chfl'1l:N~~~--Will~-th~ .Honoursble _ Finance l!~b~.Q~-l,)l~sed,,tost.?,t~ ,- .. -,- .. _: -. :., -: .
. . _ (a). wheth(3r it is a fao.t tha.t._on the 4th of May 1927, & large crowd of _ __ ~ Mqhlij'.Droa~s,attended the :fon.e:ml. P:rc:>c~Bion --of the three
· per~@s killed on the night of the, 3rd in}• 4'!li0ije which took place uear Ka.bli Mairs lia.veli in Lahore;. - , •-.;
_ --· (b) if so, will the Governm~t be pleased to consider the adv~sab-ility- Qf mking s,erjo;us_-si;epsf<>r tbe purpose of checking this evil? · , · : : Th&- Hon.Oill"al>le-Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: - Uovernment are· -aware-that there is considerable traffic in women between. p~rts of the United Provinces and Bengal and the Punjab, but are not in possession of informai
.timvt<> .sh<>W tl;i.~t this traffie is increasing. The - shortage of matriageable - JeJ;U~les fa the P-unja.b :which exists in certain trsets.. such as the/Majha,
. Ma.lwa, and Colony areas, is - an undeniable economic fa.ct: whi~h can appa- . _- ~0Atiy _ oi:1.ly be. remedied by .the imFo$tion of wo;meu from outside. Con
- _ _ ,eq~AA.tly,. ii\div:~dµa( ortpm~ tto,-ui · ~xist wbl,ch, ~~r _910 ~l'llt,~ in __ question. . It should, however, "be borne m. mind ~atn.i.a,tnm9~~l agencies, however·
-- o~jectiOI!abl~ their business, a-re_ not neces~y illegal ,md_ ~Y,,rnJnellt belie\708 that _:numbers of the WOI.lleD imported _ are_ £\UperfiUOUS Or -frieild}esa- µl. the_~lac~s, to. ~hich they origirio.liy ~elo11ii, and are. ~~~~YY -~~t ix\disp~ to exchlw.ge ·therr lot for th_e 9'0~pllla.t1ve ,api~exwe 9f ~l lile}n the PunJab. frhe: Police can only inter:f~re:when compulsioxi,-or ~~e!til;lg,lU~ O.J>~rt of the-
- tr~saction. · Such cases invariably :f<>rm the stibj9<?t · <_>f pqq<)_e - ellquiry and of jud;icial action whe;re proof is. forthcpmmg. . L.oci~'. Qfµ~rs· ~e also ready and.'willirig to fumiali iriforma-tioll to the '.relative!! of.. w9~_enJo:qoerned where: there is reason to believe tha.t ~eY.: have rbe~ a~qµoted; _ No otl:ierc19.1,m ·ot - ad.mmistmtive aetion has -so Jar. suggested: -itself_- to :dovt'inment, :but they-
- woajd . welcome .~Y- public -Jl?.QVe;m~t _or ~g~~tious whiqh will .have the· effect.of removing. any :uncle11~b,le feattri'.es :wbich lll4\y :be connected wit» •· tzafli.c largely- promoted for _purposes of profits. ' '" - '. -: . - r- •
RoAri FROM~13~~sl'm<~o. GoP:~Y\~PJ~;. _---_ -,s- _ *400. Rai.Sabib· Laia:Ganga Ram: Will· the Hono~Q~-?@rlster-
tor Local Self-OovenuneI:1t be plessed. to ~s~t&--- _ _ _ _ __ ~ _ ·- ·. i' . . (a) wh~ther -it'is a f~ct r th~t- ~~~- rgad; #>~ :a~~Ppr~ P,~~~~
Amballl, to Q9pabn~"~oout 2~miles .m length, 1un .. very: 0
- - "·; ':wretohed conditioni~4;is_1L~¥~~<!fS;~ffu'.o#,v#,en~:~d. - - trouble to- the p1Igpms_ who !lissemble th~e in large numbers' at . the. tfrne~-o( the :aD.n1Ja} fair • - '··' -·- , . - . I ' , --- , ,.... - . - -
(b) i1 ao,-will the Gpvenunent be pressed to dJ.'Qw the.e.ttentiori.oJ tbEt -- - - D!5ti:iot·-~~~d,~ Axrib~~.--t~-w-¥1~Jh~:<i~~tion 1(~9I1~0~~
a,pacca road to remove the dIScqmfort of the said pilgnms ? · . The Honourable Malik Firoz)g•JU1,-Noon: (a) No.
-· C . , .{b) CThe ~~!l.-is ,repaired .. ~ually :before ~hEdair,-at.',&>pa-hnoohM f.akee place, and Goverrunen t are not prep~ed .to ·:recQii:Unend. . .the _ '~o,µs truction of a metalled road. ill view of the present state of the finances of the district -board: · ~ ·_ - _ - · - - : · · _ : -.- : : 5. - - -.,. · - - ·
-. STARR:J!)D ,Q'U.ESTIONS AND ANS,WJ!)BS.
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; I i I ~ '9it PUNJAB LEG_ISLAT VE bouNOIL.. [ ~1sk Ju
· i l I £D.l- kal Chand Narang.] .. . , I {b) whether it is a fa.et that the odies of the said Mu.ht
been removed from the ospital to a khan.yak 01\r J -- - Gate '!4ere speeches wer made to large ~row s of
, madens assembled round he dead bodies ; 1 • _
-(~)-wheth~ it ie a fact tha.t the recession was attende by . - of demagogues .who mvi speeches both on ith . w to h~
. . burial ground and in the urial. ground itself ; i . ·. · - · -
(d)-whether it-is a fact that oa the tettirn from·\ the bur· l gro · ~~d ': · · some members of the pro es~iqn oommitted!acts of enos id
-- the Anarkali Bazar atrd elsewhere ; I ! . . . .. , : '. . 1 ' . -
(e)'whetber it is a fa'lt that' th riot broke 0'1t imm dii\t - , · return of the funeral pro ssion ; i - ' ·
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- (Jttlie nwnber'of Hindus, Muha a.~~s and Sikhf &ilf d ~r_ '.~.;~ . -:-,.~-- ··or(the4thofMayand-su. sequent days; l i- •. . .• , __ ~ ~:: '·: (g) wliether any judicil:\I'fidir.i ~ ~g-ija9~ given as it~ t a al_ g;1ti_ 1~ -:-·::-"" · =:': made by',certain Muha~ 1'.la.~s and in a !pres c:, _ ~ni 'I# _ ~-- ... - that st?Ues were thrown y some Hindu qoys t th fune ~l - "". ---- - procession? 1 I . f - · - --~j : ~ - H~nourable9 Sir. ,Ge«d&ey de'*ontmorenci: ; (a) s, .: -: .'. {b Aooordiug to_the iufot.mltion re eive~ by Goveru~elt hh s
i~ Te h:!~ :~i:~:~:~e ~ke_n ~~~ ~-tr~ the mortrT t· th (o Speeches W9!~ made PY- ear~a perso~s a.t the pq.o
but t,·so far as ~vernme,}!t·is aware elsewhere, ... I r ..::_ -( ~Y~s;_.~ ... ~---.::,; ,.".: ~ ,. =-- _ :-:--;~' I ! · · _
(e .. :Murderous as~ults o.n individu Is'b~gan to be rep~:1:-p'e - to_ e po oe- ~ - ~u~- -7 P.M~ on1-¥1e 4t~ _o~Y.ay. :~·:-~-_I , ~- _- -r "t~~ - ,:~ . 'Tlie number-ofkilled was 27~ 0 wh@m' 15 were :$n_'d • 5 khs nd
?_ ~~a,dan·s.- _Tli~_num1?ei of WO - de~~ .so far as-ha~ ~ . as rtain a, -was 1 2. Of- these 96 were Hindus, SrkbS, 48 :Muham1 id s an 1 ~ l . • c -- : - - : .. : . - ' :- : · :·::~:. - - - l ; - -: . . ~ ~- r -Not so far as 'Govetnment IS a, are though certain p .rson rres ed @i · 1r oliarge-of throwing stones w:ere s J>s~q1:1:ent1i Ai~oliai-gM.
0 ----c-~ · ·· - -.-- -- ------- · - · · I i · ' : :, , "LAHORE R10*8.' - j ! -- " · -
• . - : Dr.: G~kul· Chand, - ~ara ~::. ! Will Ethe Horto er-'be pleased~~ sta.t~-- -- - -"!. :; (~j. whether any complaints wer 'rec~ived by the Dis 1Lot:
of Lahore from the !Im.cl ~gainst the oondnet police constables fo.~ t ~~,Ja.ilure to p~e".'
, ; _.. . _ assaults on innoc'ent pas- rs·by- ; ! ; , it:. -. · (b) \vhether -the Gov~ent has been' pleased to i.ns~t_u: e ~
into the matter; if so, w t ~s the- result <,f th enq ·.· cot'wl!~tlier i3i)~p~aints. -were r ~iv~-by the rns~?i,t_ Ma? i/ ·: ~-- - - Lahore ,a_gamst-some -Mus . ~l!3&d0rs for nafing sti ii::.·, ---- encoura.ged attabb on du:lt~d f9rh~vingoo traot
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;:,- - ::. 0FF~~s-IvE AND INFLAMMATORY ·aRTIOr..Es ;N: THE: PRESS, •403; Dr~ Gobi Chand, Narang·; Will -the- Ho~6imible Finanoe
:Member-be .pleased ·t,o state- _ _ _ (a) w_hether · G;ovemment. is a.ware _ that lllost- _ offensive .and-: inffinn-
- ·;'lna.tory·poe:rns and articles have been and. are appearing iri a, see- - -tion ot·the Muhammadan press which are likely tc; create and - promote hatred and enmity between .two sooti<>ns of His Majes-
- ·:ty's- S?-bJects ; '. · ·- - .. _ -, _ _ (b) what action; if any, has the Government takeri.or contemplates .;
to take against such _llewspapers; . ;,q· - -- ·(c)wl:iether:tl;le Government is aware that the newspapers of Khwaja:
'Hassan N_iza.mi of Delhi are most offensive in their tone and · . : . . . • are calcnla.ted to. provoke a • breach ot the peace'.; • . {d) whether 'the Government will consider the a.dvisa.biUty of prohibit-_ -
ing the circulation of his newspapers in the Pimja.lr; - -- -- · c2
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(c) Y_es, numerous complaints of this nature were received. (a) No:· but. the - police· received instructions' that, cases of- simple
'hurt, which were not cognizable, should not be registered; and that cases of" .grievous hurt tin which the oomplainanb could not identify his· assailants were
· fo. be registered, but "filed as untraced. _ _ · · . (e) In addition to a, la.rg~ number of officers temporarily detailed fo 1'
magisterial duty during the actual. disturbances, 4 extra Magistrates, in -eluding 2 Europeans, were posted. to Lahore during May last, _lijld tli(Fdis- -trict staff is still 2 officers above its ordinary strength. As regards police,' -
.· _- .a B,ritish ·_superintendent hag been placed in- general charge of the investigir · [email protected] he had the temporary assistance of'a Superinterident.im.d Deputy Superintendent of' the Criminal Investigation Departm~nL · The police
· ~serves ·of 4 districts were _ca]Jed ~fo_ Lahore and the City and A.na.rkali Stations. were strengthened by over 300 Sub-Inspectors.,:' head consf.abla.1 .and constables in-addition to some mounted police. The force of Additional polfoe.now sanctioned for Lahore consists of l ~Deputy Superintendent, 10 Su~lnspeotors,_53 head constables and 850" consta.pi~: In the. opinion of -the local authorities tliis ·assistance' is adequate. -- --'--~ ·; =t: ·
{d) whether the Gov~rnment is aware_ ~hat several .murdes oase_a .- and - a large number of oases of serious a~sault on Hindus
• resulting' in. grievous hurts have not been pr9-perly attended to by the poli.ce_ on. account of inadequacy of- police and magis- terial staff ; . . - .
(e) whetherthe Gcwermnent will be pleased. t? ~~skt the, Dj,s~ct :Magistrate of Lahore by placing more polieeand ' plagistmtes _ at his service to.enable him to make proper enquiries into suoh _ ~ses~
_ The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) and (b) .tei~C:: .All: the complaints received were carefully investigated. - Some were sliown
· 'to be deliberately false and none were substantiated. In soma ;instanooa • -enqniry showed that the subordinate police have behaved with-great courage
. ;ll), .diffioulb circumstances. . . . - .
srs' . STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
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~ - o'o~erlll'.D.ent ii a ware that, efforts _a :officials in Lahore to encourage t
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STA1'IONER'i'. FQI.t MUNI<lIPAL.0oMMJT'fEEJ, WAZX~BAD.
-: .. · •406. Ot. -G~kul Chand, Narang,: Will the Honourable Ministe1 foli , · · ·Local Self ·Govern~ent be plea.!,~cl to state ; . . .
{(J) the amount spent :by the Municipa.l Committee ol Wazitabad in . · /purc~asing.stationery in each year from 1:9~.to:1926; , .
{11}: what is the cause for large difference betwee'!l tlj.e amounts of _ 192~ to 1924 and 1925 to 1926 ·; · ~ .. .:.. - .
: (c)' wht3th~r. ~1:l these ~*~~ies 'are made o~ t~~ s~ook}egister of tllt MliIUc1pal Comnnttee ? · " : . . .:
-, · · ··TJae Honbutable ·Mull Firoz · Kmui. Nooi : · (a):: , . · - · · - •• ' • • . - •• • ' - ••• - ~ .· ! • . • . ·: . • • . •
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. ·.· Ax.iLGABHI Q.\±E, W AZIBA.1'AD.
•• :Q(. G~kiil ~d,. ~~~:. 'wf#. th~ ·.HQnQnrable Minist8Jl . . , ·ile1 TJOO&l Self.:.Government be pleased to st<.Lte-- · . · . , . ,: .
(a) wh~ther the Gove:rilttlent is aware that lilervants. of the :Wazix1r c"bad Municipal Coi:Iunittee. have. der(lohsheQ:a,n ·ancient build .. ing, ·namely, the Ak9tlgarhi G,ate, ·before placing. the ma.ttm,
.. beforeanynieeti.ng of the municipal comn:iittee.'; ·. <·,: {b} whether it is a fact th~t the building belonged to. the Govern•
.· ment, being nmul property, and t'ti~.t the ~U:nioipalcomnrlttee . was r!35pon,;ihle for its mainte@nee ; . . . . .
(1]) . whetbe; the . aov:ernme~t knows .thaAi-·t1to ';Yh91~ m~t~rii\l-m the building; while it .. was standing, . was·.· sold ·without ''ah,; .,r,~ .·. solution of thecommittee for a paltry amount t9'th'3, b1·Qth~1! .·
. of a. member of the .. committee and has been remoye.11: ru:uls us,~ partly by one member in bis faotory and partly by: anothe1 member in his buildings ; · ·· . . .
(d) whether any sanction of the Co:oimissioner has ba'an obtliliied · · for the- sale of the material to the brother of a,' member, what ...
amount has been. realised and how-it has been accounted for; . H wh~her it is a fact that: there -is 11() resolution of the~. Qommittee
.nor .any report by any. Engineer Qr other -. expert· tha.t the . . building should be demolished? . . ... .. · · "· ·
. . . Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : · Local officers have been ecasked to report; and. the reply will be fumished to the hdnoatabfo memb8Jl . Jn due course,' . . . . .. . . . ..
.·· t., • (~), R~r,uits ~n only be enlisted · as· vacincies, occur. 'G9v.ernment .. ~ .~~l, tbe:eefore. und~k~ to enlist any fixed number; but is pr~patm{~
·&~t Hindus, if suitable candidates present·tbemselves, until, they have.i, · air share of appo~tments. ·
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. i w AZIBABAD MUNICIPAL .AND OdTROI DUTY • ..__ • . . I . I !
• Dr. GokulChand, Narang f Will the Honourabl -Government be pleased to st te--1 - i •
- a) whether the Government is a o.re;that since th~ sch dule .: _ of the octroi duty was re ised in November 1924, t
- - -- in the municipality of Wa · abad has decreasedl by per cent. and th!!,t several raders have closed thelr do
b)_ what w~s the net annual · come of committee fro c, - - -- - • - before the duty was enhan ed and what it is :ho~ n spi
_ = _ duty having been double 'l 1
11 I . _ Honourbale Malik Fll'oz an, Noon : (a) i Goirnrr1 .wu t the revision of the octroi sch dule is alleged to hav bad 'ci - effect upon the trade of Wazira d, but are not in, a I' sitio o w a -extent the trade has been affect d, ' '
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. ~ The nat income· from octroi nring 1928-24 was •R . 55 i :alt$' revisiou of the schedule i was' 68,409. i I
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00TROI DUTY AN TE1'MINAL '.rAX, 11
Dr. Gobi -Chand, Nar : Will the Honoura e th · a.- ii t 1. ocal Self-Governn:ient be please to $ta.te- i ' I - I
ti} __ whethrr it is _a fact that the neate.st mar~e- ts a_ t rw_ µwa stati n ··~ .. · _Gu3:rat 01rthe north, the town of GllJranwala qn th .. sont ,,
the towns of Akalgarh a d Haiiza bad on the west IJ.d t Gonj market of Sialkot o the east of Waziraib; ar 11 fr · of octroi duty, and that s· nated centrally amo _ th ·, t e market of Wazirabad ca ot ,possibly keep up its ade
, - ;:~ .competition with_ the s ounding markets wi~ler a eavi ~ · tax unless brought into co ornrity with them ; l
~- whether it.is. _,a fact. t·_ha_ t His Exce··· llency the. G· •. -ot·._.e __ tor, •. · camp at Wazirabad on th July 1925, rel\eive in .: e. deputation ~f the Trad ' Association with: a me
the introduction· of the' terminal tax in: the m and was pleased. to assure hem_' that the oetroi __ ,·_ .ty soon replaced by the termi l t!l,x ; : •. · ·
e)_ whether it i_s _also a ~act _that, at t~e.instance ol t~ej(fov the Mumc1pa1 Comnuttee f w,Zirabad passed a resol
· · the· introduction of the te minal tax, prepated Jnd p a schedule, invited and c · nsidered objectic)na a~ req section 62 of the Municip l Act, and that the oi1.ecti on a subsequent date perso ally enquired into an he . Commissioner of Lahore D vision in camp at Wa irab the schedule was under co idetation of the Gqvtnm
l6 PUNJAB LEGIBL IVE. COUNCm. i 21,J Ju
o . alik Firoz Khan Noon.] j · b) The. pn.rcha-se of a number o pens for the us~ of he e c rs of the committee and the supp y of stationery to t e _
hoot I c) Yea.
OoNSTBUOTION OF SHOPS BY w AZIRABAD MUNICIPAL Co~IUTTEE WITHOUT . . · ',PBOPEB SANCTION.
. : , .; '. •409. Dr. Gobi Chand. Narang : Will the Honourable the Ministei: for Loe.al Se}(-Governmeht be pleased to state-- _ ·
(a) 'when the answer to my question No. 82511, asked on 29th Jui!~.· 1926, will be ready ?
911; STARRED .. QUESTIONS -AND- c.ANSWERS.
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(d) whether the Government is aware that all oh sudden the:muiiicipaI · · committee ·has· recently ended the matter by·re.tectingthe pro
' posal of terminal. tax altogether in· a. special 'meeting held tbia. .tirne · in· camera ;· · ·
(e) _whether the Governnient is also aware that rioiie of the fifteen members of the municipal committee, a$ at· present eon stituted, with the solitary exception of a Cloth merchant; pays directly aity octroi duty whatever on" his trade or prof es sion and that .a strong majority of them is strenuously exerting against the proposal ; . . . ·
(!) what steps, if any", the Government proposes io take in replacing: the heavy tax with a ,lighter one, which may ·amount to the· same extent of income as at present, but be in conformity with the surrounding markets; . . . .· · __ "
(g) whether it is also a fact that the whole town of W azirabad, o bs_erv~ · a complete hartal on Brd September 1926 as a, prote~t against the heavy burden of the present octroi duty ? · - · -
. I'. - The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : (a). "T&minaftai'. has been imposed· in Akalgarh, Hafisabad and Gujranwala, and :octi:oihas been imposed in Sialkot and Gujrat. The latter part of the_question is, amatJ;_er oi- opinion. :::: ',
_ (b) His Excellency received a deputation of the Traders' Association; l>u:t gave no such assurance. · ·· · ······ ·· . _ . . -
(c) It is a fact that the Municipal Co~ttee _of Wazif~bad_ paesed; &iesolutfon proposing the imposition of terminal tax, prepared andpublished a schedule arid invited and-considered objections, but· this action was Ii.ofi _ taken· at the instance of Government. It, is also a fact·that the 'obj"ections- 1 received were on a subsequent date enquired into by the Commissioner oi Lahore in person, but the proposal to impose the tax was never forwarded. ~o Gover.nment; for- consideration. . : .. (d}-A. resolution not to proceed with the proposal was passed at"a meet ing held on the SOth of May 1927, but Government !J,re not aware that the·
.m:13etiilg was held in. camera, . . . ... . {e) Further enquiries are being made in connection with-this part of the·
··the_ question, and the result will be communicated to the hqnpUJ,"able member in , due. course.
. : {!) The ootroi rates at ·w asirabad are about the SaIP.e as th,~se ·, in fQrC~ at Sialkot and Gujrat. If any change is required, it is for the:c<>:g::un.ijt~e,- ~d not for Government to take the initiative. · ·
(g) Govefument have- neiniormation on the point, ~ .. :,,. -- -c : r: , "~
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\ ' .-,PUNJAB LEGISLAT VE COUNCIL. ~ 2~s Ju
kul Chand Narimg.] _ : : i . . . ) whether jt i~ a fact that the · ·ctpaJ committee f ·_sine
a resolution to .the effect t at the case of the! e~ ezzle m~de over.to ~he police a d t~at the whole;atpo _t B this unauthoneed work b recovered from the.- em were 'personally responsi le ~or its cons~n;ici. on . sanction ; , , : :
. : e} wh~ther t. h.~. p. olice has made a y iq!•.ve .. stigat.ion i~. ~.he(m. at.· r; a if so, with what results ; - J · j : •
. d) what action, if any, does the overfunent iutentl !o· ake . ord · " to reeover.the amount fro the .11esponsihle members as · solv d
.. by the municipal committ .e ? 1 · : i , -i Honourable Malik- Firoz - ( Noon: (a)!Theans
_ .. rv, _ ed to the Secretary of the Counc I on ~h~ 17th of Jt1ly ~ _ 26, ·:u.-.:·.ru;·- :~.i.C!n· to the' ho.~ourable membe • -1 . II j ·
-, . b) Yee. ._ , 1
1
-· ;:" 9)- Yee ;the conclusion reached is t · t nq embeszlement ~a fB!k _ . _ . The results ?f the police invest a.tiln 1has only Jps( _een: - nd be communicated to the co tteeJon the receipt ,of who he f er action to be .taken will be co siderecl. :Meanwhile, the I
an bills to the "contractor has bee stovped. ! : i -i -- I i - _
_ - _ . 8LAUGHTE~·HOus~ IN WA RABF MuNICrP~1jt _ ~. Dr. Gokul Chand Narang : ( i) ~ill the Honoura le th ocal Belt-Government be-pleased to su.tte- I !
-( ) what amount of Government grant was given Jttj ~ e m -eommittee of Wazirabad f r th4 constructionj of n w sl
- house · ' ! i - - • ! , I : ~ whether the Government hassa isfie~i~selfthatt,eslaf ght
_ has been. built strictly ae ordipg to the p a* · nd sanctioned by the proper uth~rity ; · , I · -
_ () whether the accounts have een !checked by Jtlie Gov ; _ .. · · . ·. . auditor, and, if so, what ov rpa)'ments and v~1iatj'ons
. ·· . ; estimate and plan have bee repbrtecl by him]? i : -- .. -. .. ( i) n.·- the w. or k. is not ~o. ne accordi g to •. ~.h· e sanct~on~d!··. p in.·. a
· te, : the Government kindly find on w hq is responsible for his ·bJi ·ney, and will it please consider he q111estion of recove ng t om h responsible member 1: - j i j !
Honourable Malili F"U'oz n- · ~oon: (·i) (a)i Es. 4,86 { ) a d (e) The auditor of the Urba Sanitary Board] _ heck
ncti d plan and estimate; bul as t le variations froib. th sa ion .&Kn estimate were. unimpQrta1:1t,_t_h __ -_au~it ohjeetto~ ~~&· wit
. th nitary Board.: The work cost 1 ss than the f3~tinjia~e, .and . s ·Q Us. 8. 9-6-4 representing the unspent b lance of the Sanitary oar l gra. s~ h ·- refunded. - -'' . -- - . 1 :. - I ;
-.'.fi~· No-public mon~-ha-ving-been ste4.rthe questio~ ~- · ove · · does not arise. ·- · · · : ·;' I
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, ~.: " .• L41[ Dr. Golnil .. Chand Nuang: '(a) Has the- attention of the. :Honourable 'the Minister for Agric~11r.e. been drawn to an article on Gujrat Bhii:nber road published in the Tribune, dated the 19th of May l927,. deserib- ·
jng.thedangerous condition oftbe.t<;>ad between Gujrat and Bhimber 'l ./. i lb) .Wbaii steps;.if any; does the Honourable M1nist>;et,eQiltempliite_to remove the trouble ? · · · · '
. ·The flbrionntble Sarti •. Jogenclra Singh: (a).Y-es, a-letter, not .an article. The:itate:ment iii the lettet that in Mavl11s't tne.: Communications Board sanctioned this road to be made pucea, isi~correc'k .. , . . ..
. , .,, (b) .. The road is a·-district board toad; thl;l fact~ related suggest neg .:l~c(by)ha( ho9y-ofit~ duty~ A proposal involyingtlre transfer of this road · 'fio the arterial class in charge of Government is at present' under considera- tion. Rand when suoh.a transferis decided on, it is found that. the difltric1;
· l\6ar'a )ias,r~~eiitlj negfo~tecftheJnaihterian~e of the'ro~cJ:jn. anticiui,ti~ .:(W ~ucli ttansfetj Goveniirierit: will probablt deQlfoe to tak_e ifover-.until tlie :cresults of such neglect have been made good by the disfrfot board: - . -
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AMERIO.AN Mi:ssION HI_GH Boaoon, ·Sr:ALKOT,
: *411.: · Chaudhri i Zdanillah Khan : . Will th~ Ronout!ible Minister · .for -Education pleasifstate :'"'- . . . . . . . ·_ ·
(~) whethei:t]{e American. Mission High School, Sialkot, has been · elos-ed ::down. ; ··
(b)· it't'li:e4tn's~erto (a} be'in the negative, what is the presentstrength · · · of the,staff of that school and whether such staff is adequate foi:
the proper running of the school ; ·· · · · . · (e)"if t}le ans;wer to (a) above. be in the affirmative, wheth~. it
is a fact that the . students · . on the rolls of the American Mts~ sionHighSchool;Sialkot,orgo:meofthem,havebeentransferred'
.·. to the· rolls of the Scotch Mission Higll School, Sialkdt, · under Efome_arra.ngement between the managements of the two
schools without any . reference to tpe students th~mselves os their guardians ; · . · . · .
(d)if the answer to (c) be m~ the affirmative, what steps. does the . · Education Department propose to take so 1;1,s to enable the .
. · students; so transferred; to ·exercise a free choice in the matter .: of selection of a school in which.they should continue their
further ·studies? · · The Honourable Mt~ M:anohu Lal: (a) Yes. (b) Doe~nbt arise. ·
- .. :(-c). Befor!).tJle :ctosfog of the Ameri~an Mission,School, the Inspector in'! ::jtructed head masters of the districtthat theJJoys of the Mission School -eould join any_ ii;u;titution provided that they had the :requisite Jeavipg: ;eertiJfoates and the' written consent: of. their. parents or gua,rd.ians and that. in the case of any difficulty; reference was to be made to tbe}napecior. ' ..
· _ (d) Does not arise. -: ····
919. STABBED .·QUESTJONS AND ANBWEBB,
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iND ANSWERS - UNST.ARRED QUESTIO
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. I , I _PUNJ,AB LEgISLAT VE. COUNCIL, fl 2hr Ju
, . I CAN~ SoREME FOR IND DAD.i.N Kn.A.~.; I
(a) Will the Ho~ohril.ble em e please state whether the Gover ent is aware tb:a.~ IJi.ge
ult a. le land in the .vioinity of Pin Dada.n Khan tiave~been · n ac o t of inroads of salt water fro the Sa.It Range Hills ?
_ _ . b) Is the Goverllll?-ent aw~re of it.s romise made a fe~ te rs_ a , ana. w uld be startedin that ilaqa? · _ i ;
. _ ) Will the Hon'ble _Member be lea~ed to state Jt lw at s anal s heme is at present and whether effo~ts would be :µi~d be' o _ pletion · of the scheme?' :· :
. i Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i• u•: (a) Yes.'
• Chaudhri Afzal .Haq: Wil th~ Chief Seorete.ry be ,leas
) whet~er the llile~ployment C ~'. ittee ~ppoid •. te~-r·· IMf O ~e,n e with the Punjab Gover ant Resolution No.: 4 20 om :+: '. Genl.), has completed its enquiries ; i i -
• c . .f . ) if so, whether copies of the r port: will be mad~ av ilabl to t
members of the Council ? - i ! '
• H. D. Craik :: (a)-- A very lar e axhount of writt~n vid een ·11 eived and is now being e'f_a~ 11 ajd it will be fpr[ t e oo o d _ci e at its next meeting whether rt~er_ oral evide~o~ · req
) The question of printing the r ort ! when received ;wm de . is . at a and length. ! ! I
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• Cloauclhri Afml u:.•ra; .r ::~onourable !J,.lter f A e be pleased to state- i :
a) the number of excise cases c ned by the present Exe e Su Inspector of Garhshanka District Hoshiarpur r
b) the number of cases in wbic conviction was :seowred; .~ c). the number of. cases in whi~b earohes were m. ade un~er th - · .. · Act by.the present Excise ub-Inspeotor, hut no ~>ne
e Ho:;~~~~ Sarclar JOB a I
Singh: (a111J (6 · C.s o cases under'the Excise Act. ases are actually 'challa.ned 'poli e ad bOI by E~ Sub-Inspooto ). ' · I
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A.now. BRA.NOH, SIRIDND CANAL.
256.: 'Pir Ak'bar Ali-: Will the Honourable Revenue Member please· ata.te whether it is e. fact :- - . .
- (a{tbat from -19th Februa~y 1927 to 19tb March 1927 no rotation. turn due to Malookpur, Pujawa, Arniwala. and other distri butaries of the Ab ohar Branch, . Sirhind Canal; running in: the· Ferozepore District was given - to _them_ excepting . some,_· balance . water (jhsra) ; _ · · _ , . ·
(b) that there were no rains during the ~st wintei! in the area irrigs-: t_ed by the aforesaid canals ; · _ · - _ _
.. (•) that rabi cropshave this year generally faileo for want of water: - ' in that part of Ferosepore Disttjct which used to.be irrigate<l
by th~ above-mentioned canals; ~ (d) if the answer to (a) be in the affirmative will the Honourable·
_ Member kindly state the reasons; · .(e) if the answer to M ha- in the a.ffirmative will the •. Honourable
Member _- please say if Government has taken any steps for the relief of"tbe occupiers of the land whose crops have failed' for want of canal water :
(.f) that the rotation turn due from 9th Maro~ 1927 to 19th Me.rob. 1927 to the Abohar Branch, Sirluild Canal (running in the Ferozepore District)-was-given·to Patiale State ;ifso will the· Honourable Member st~te · reasons for ·such e.. pre,f~renoe ? ..
The HonourableMian Sir Fazl-i;.,Husain :' ,1\he Hononrab1e Member it informed that the information is not available· at heaiJquarters ~nd hr.1-- . . ,. . . ·, . . . . ·.·- . :
S~s OF 'lJAHSILDA.BS A~]) Nm·TAHSILDARS,
-' ~- 2.55. Sarclar - Habib Ullah : · Will -the_ Honourable tlie Revenue M,em·- . bar be pleased to state if the question of increases in the salaries of ']ahsilda.:rs-:. and Naib-Tabsildars .is under consideration; and if so, when . they ari:,-
'. likely to be ·enforced ? ·
'The ,Hqnourable:Mian Sir- FazJ .. i-.;Husain: The quest~n _ of the revision of salaries of Tahsildars is . under consideration : ·until.· orders, if: any~ are passed it cannot be stated from what date they will be enfo~ed:
Representations front" Naib-Tabsildars in regard to' salary were received' ia 1922. The question was considered ·at that_ time, but it was decided that· in view of the increase already granted in their emoluments __ and of the fact that sufficient suitable men were obtainable o:idhese emoluments, _llO inerease was m,oessary. Since that time there has been.no change in the· - ;circumstances to jm1ti.fy the reconsideration of this decision. '
(b) 6. (All opium cases. Of the other 'cases- s'-ca.ses bavi\:been-witn-:- drawn; 2 are pending) .. - __ - - - · · ' - - - ' {c} .,2> (In one case under the Opium Act a search was made and 11.9· one was ehallaned, If this be included the figure should be· "8 ").
921 _ UNST_AJ,\RED QUESTIONS AND- ANSWERS.
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I PUNJAB LEGISL TIVE C()UNCIL, i [:21 T J Mia.n Sir Fazl.;.i- Husain.) 1 I~ -
n tated a reference to the local a thorities and the1 r;jt is wait d; ~e · Ol'llla~ion when received will b OOJ:flmnnicated to_1th h ()ll?a le me b • , : -~ - - z -
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- GoVJi.lRNMENT ADV TIB~MENTB. '
7. Chauclhri Mza1 Haq: (i Will. the Honourable tbe __ _ be pleased to state whether G veniment adv-ertfoe-m A-ts
-to - t e -papers of_ other provinces ; I · . ;
(i,, if so. will the~Hononrable l\fe beribe pleased tJ _ es:t · ea oost of such adverstisements for ~he year 1926] ? :
_ _ Honourable Sir Geoffrey d Monbllorency : i (i) Yes-. - __ -- (1_·_ The informa~ion asked for isn t avi-aifable and4~ho ._h_e. exoe t after an enquiry from all depa meats, courts atja : 1strt t Pun a . -'Gove~men~is not prepared to .W1dertake suof -~ enq
•0>· ------ I : I ! ; · GOVERNMENT NoRMAL S Hoot-, . HosHIARPUll. ·
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. . • .; Chaudhri Afzal Haq : w· the; Honourable! the Mini er :Edu a ion be pleased to state :-
1
i a) Whether it is a fact that the fo owing 9 Hindu Btu.den S of
ernment Normal School, - oshiarpur, were conv rted ism in the School premises; (l)i Gurbux Rani, (2) Cha (8) Atma Ram, (4) Ohara Dass, (5) Amir O~ahri (6) Dass, (7) Bishan Dass, (8 M~ Chand, and (9} G da
b) whether the Head Master a d · second Mast~ni o th are Sikhs ; · · i • i i
o) whether the Government b din~s can be us~d!_f r co ersi B c purposes ? · : I i .• • . . - • I I
"Honourable Mt. Manohar Lal r (a) No. I I •
) The headmaster is a Sikh, an the second master ~s Hin u. o) They are not so used. I 1 •
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S.TIPENDs IN THE GovERNMENT ORl\fAL Soaoor., Hos P
/ Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Wi th~ Honourable i t~e Mini :a at on be pleased to sta~e- , · i ! I I I
') (t) the number of stjpends waI1ded to students com wise in the Governm t ~ormal School, iH shi
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(it) whether the proportion of ipends awarded t() e!l,O oo is in accordance with he instructions of ! t e e
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department ; .. :j I · i ( ~ if not, whio.h community h~s en. a,wardad. less 1st1pa di
· · :dese!!ed ; H Honourable Mr. Manohar (tl) (i) A st~t~m nt s
_ he ; nnation is la.id on the table. --. __ · - I ! I {'i1 No _snob in~otions have bee -gifen. I ',
- Dees· not ame. I
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- - . : MAULV! .'.FAZAL ,f~ AND ~AB~BE_ ~Ol'S~ . . .. ·- . . . _ 261. Cbauclhri Afzal:Jlaq :._,_;_W-ilLthe -B;<>nourable -Finance Member _
·, -.'. ·~-\,- .e: .: ·--~·:·::··-·
. -· .. ~-~ -:-.-....; .
.• lriiiY::meriil>~s '()~~li~'r ~t;:~OQ;\c.C~.T ajitt~~ _; ~<Y .!Ali numb~): ~t ,. MuJmm.>
~~t~,~t~!it~~the~i~:{~-:. . . ·.·-----.
:.·-i,j,~~:<\·':}~f~:~t~·~}J __ :: ,• - -;~ :<". -·· ...:.;....!;........;:..-.;....,;... ......... .....:;.....:.;.;,.~..;;..;.;..;.;;;;..;.:;;,...;;.;. __ ;,..,._--'----~.,.:'.":'-_ . ...,_:-, _,-. _....,"_ ,:--,...,_ ,..., --.-'--"""'-'-,-,.,-...._;,.
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! ... ~;-~~~,:~7w::::·~~1·;~~~:~~{ ! - - -_:\ - _/< s - -(i} 'it it, is a ~t ·tJ.raf a p;tson ·nam&l Abd-ul. ~d WD6 aetau:.ted. -
·.:_ -_-,._-·_ - : .r- - - ·in·thana, AnQ.rkali, in_eonnootio:a with'~l!ore·riots; · - : - :.- _>,,- .s., t ~-- -- -~= -,_ :::. -: t~f wh~er:the--l!aid:·Ab_dur l!amid' was ~l!~i~·d_ ~f any ~ffene~{; '':·~ ':· ' ·:' .:-,i
/:t~.f;',1~:~_::;;[/E._g~~~~,in~'.·~i;~;u:::· .·. - ..... ...,_ __ ""-.
-. •\.· -
-Non~:· - stipend&ries admitte:d.:
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Ol'
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MuNSHI GuLAB S NG!( AND SoNs. I .l. . . . . ·. -- ,··--· . ~-i • .. ····, • / ··Chauclfui Afzal Haq : Will: the Honourable
du · ion be pleased to state :..,..,.. . - : i i _ (a) whether it is a.Jact that the m rif Munshi GulabS' gh
· is the sole publisher of t e books of the :mducaltion . ment for the last quarter of ~ century ; / ,~
(b) whe!her it is a fe,ct that anot er non-Muslim ~mis shor granted the right of publi hing' the books of ~h T
. - - - Committee ; i I i S:'-- - ·- G) whether .it is a fact that _(fo erz$eut is consi~~ · g"th de •
_ ability of granting the ht of publishing! the boo s of._· Education Department t any Muhamma~a*1· · -· · so?
e Honourable Mr. Manohar : I . (a) No. ! i (b No. - . i i. (c Does not arise. 1 I i
-- i 1.·t----, LAHORE IOTJ. .. I ·i :-: - .
-" . _ _ _Cbaudhri ~- Haq: (a WiU the Honow!ableithe · b r be pleased to state whether it is a fact that Hindu plea
~es n -w~~ La~?!e:rio_t __ ca~?s were eing _investigate~_?: f -.- . · · (b - Is 1t a fact that Shaikh Has n Dm, DJ.'. Khalifa ta.Ja ud- m
. nd Ma~ Muha_mma~an ,Sharif! _ple!l'd r_s_ -~~r~ not allmye~ o. be !ese t a.t t e tune of investigation ? : ! -i _ _
( c Is it a fact that this complaint was! brought to I the o~ic, of. t e poli d the district authorities by a put~tion of the M1islib r~ · __ f -~- _::: mitt e ? If so, will the Honourable ember be pleased to •tate bet er
. ny t p was taken to' remove this - gri 'Vance ? : : . e Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency = a) . was , present in a professional pacity d uririg. tlie µi "esti
·1 he a ore riot cases. - · - i - . : r : _ · - (b No pleaders of any 'communit w~~ allowed to !bJ p, ese t duri g s
the n estigations in their professional capacity. · .:': (e · It was explained that no plead s o~ any commmµty
mitt d to take part in the inveetiga.ti n, ·
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PUNJAB LEGISLA IVE: COUNCIL. t 21s~ Ju
[C (a-~n!~!\i~~~ ]Honourable M" ister be pleased tJ stJle th for o -gi.ving .the due.· share to the Mu amqi.· adans on - this i·. i · port.· · mitle ? · i i
e Honourable Mr. Manoh Lal: (a) Apart !fro the of·P·. b ie Instruct. ion, who is an. ex-offici. meqi?er of the Text-.13ook tee, t ere are 24 members. The repre entation of communities a ·11 a.· ollows :- - - · : -.
· · Europeans Hindus Muhammadans Sikhs Indian-Christians
(b and (c) Do not arise,
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·--- - -- 0HAUKIDARS. 00 -269. Lala Joti Parshad: - (a) Will- th~ Hon'ble Finance Member
please state whether Government is aware that the ehaukidars who visit the .rma.l police station_!!! i:q_fil~~ar: g_:ij!J:;tiot to fileweekly birth and_ <leath returns ~e defairi.ed fo_i;-~ev<3r~J.;_4aysJ>y the ~hana officials to _do private work fo11 them, arid; on account of the ahsEJJJ,00 .of chaukidars from _,-t~e _ villages,
lVol. X:~; l'age-Hfi;~- -_· -- : ~ _ _ , - 1VQI-.-X(A,·Pa.ge -16~~-- - ,: - -~ .:: #-~~~
_. - _-.11'" V9l,:Vlllipa;ges !167-:-llf!l:anc:1 pa.ge:-0xLr, Appendix'-~-
TEACHERS IN GovERNMENT NORM.AL SCHOOL, HosmARPUB.
2frl~ Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable Minister for . Education be pleased to state-
(a) the number of teachers community-wise in Government Normal- -_ School, Hoshiarpur; - "-
(b) whether he proposes to take the neeesaary steps to appoint moi,i teachers of the community which has less· proportion in tl11r teaching staff of the school ? - ·
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The Honourable Mr. Manoh.ar Lal-: The_ Honourable Membei is re---: ferred to the answer given to Connoil questions Nos. 1961-1971.ia.
- T:mAOR:lm.S ~M G9:VERNMJ]NT NQRMAL So:e:C>O~S OF0J1JLLt7Nl)U~ Dxv;BI~~. ".· _- 268. Cltaudhri Afzal Haq ; ~Will the .Honourabla - Mirtister for
Education be pleased to state the number_ of ~eacher_s cQ~llD.Uiy-wise fo all the §-overnment :J{orp:jalSchO:ols of Jullundur Division ? · ·· __ -
."- The :Ho11ourable0-Mr. Manohar Lal: The Honourable _MeinbeiitF referred to the answer given to Council questfons.Nos-.1961-.-1975:J~
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HASIAT TAX. - .
266. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: With reference to my question No. 871- (sta.rred) put on the 8th March 1927, will the _ Honourable Minister fot' Local Self-Government be pleased to state whether the Government hsve
_ considered the resolution of the teachers of private schools of Jullundur dis· · trict praying for exemption from hasiat-tax.
. The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : The answer to thia question is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honourable, '1!1ember when ready.
lNTRODUOTION OF SCHEMES SUCH AS " R:mFRESHMENT FOR ALL ., - ~ .: ': ETC., IN SCHOOLS OF THE PROVINCE. ,
265. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : With reference to my question No. 351 (starred) put on the BthMareh, will the Honourable Minister for Education be.pleased to state, whether the information asked Iorinthe question will be made available ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Government has no further in· formation than was given by my answer to the last question,
UNST.A.RBED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
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.... ,PlJ'NJAB J;BGISLA't V.E fOUNCIL. [f2~ST JUL
. . .t.aI oti Parshad.J- , i i ·. - - - lo s £fences under .seritions379 and 45 , Indian Penal Cci<:le, a e fr
. "t ed.? --: -:;_ - . : i j - - .-
. ( tJf SQ, does the Government · tend! to direct th!e ~u eri iide t f-:Po j~ ,_iHiasar, to ~ue strict orders t all officers in ch~r~e _ f pol" e. st
t·o~ n t;to detain. the chankidars ? - i : '. Honourahle. Sir Geoffrey de 1'D~orency : ( (S) I is
__ _ - ~;be past village ehaukidars ha e SQm~times beep [ir egul t · · y the police when visiting polio st~tions to mal(e ! t eir
trict o ders were issued by the Superin endent of Police b:tj t e 29 1 27, waver, forbidding their detentio , an4 if: any speci~c ca e is
.-J:1.0 ie in-which t~at order has not bee complied with dral!-ti .aet rta e ~against th~ ~~ender.. I I i : .. -( L Ql;l& not anse, !. I I I
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- . .- MUTATIO s; i i. . I I . 'i: J) -~I.ala Joti Barshad: Will t e H{>ni;>urable ~eV;e e ·
p ~_!!S ... a.te w.hether .the Tahsildars and Nai~-'Xahsildars frElq entl uta ·o at places other than the villa es tq which the .µuit d a a result of this the zamindars are ut ~o serious tro*b]e,
d · - _ arvest !!ea~ons 'l : i , :will h~ pl~~ej_ssue_~nst:r:uctions to 'l'~hsildars and11 ~ •
t att mutat10ns in the villages cone rn~ ? 1 I - ~-~-~an.Sir f.ul·i HUSJUD: Tabsilp.~s aib
ill bsil as· a.feexpected to deal with rev nue1work withinlths 'stat con ..... ~ .... <JUI·.·· _By this mei:tQSattend~nce of all parties.can be ea~ily .. ec d an t ·. tffa ts ohach case:ascertaihed. _ In th cas~ ot estates forj whi ha laile · j mal> . Hs to ~ 'drawn up. dwing th agtjoultural yeat JAU atio wor
ust e :Sposed of in the yillage itiielt n otpef cases th~ :W~ b;T. ilda ·. I ;a • da.r~ il he -0a.mfot-~ conyeilien~ly visi~ tpe est~te, ~~Y: pll,Sa !d,e~ -
- its m tat1ons at any other place mt tHe patwan's p1~cl , I s th ~ ty f he ~pecting officers to ~e·e tha thefle instructions, ~o whic
po . ee l.B attached, are earned out Gqvernment h~s ;n re ppo e0- ~t . these ins~ruotions are not . en':1jally complie1 ft , _
. - .. . -- - - . ; . ' I .
. . . '1: I.Ja).,;/=:.. 8.0ll:; t e it:!~~t;jte lor Edu non pl se st&te :- - - ·· · i . · T I (a whether it~ a. f~ct tha~ t~ei;l,l a k~e~ de~~d f1r: · _di·
Schools m Hissar District an yetj the district eduoa on ities decline· to open Hindi Schools and insJt !u n,
- .. Urdu classes· _ , - ; i J.._,.,,_. - (b. w:hether it is & fa~t that the res dentk of Jewra, t~hJif · r sub
_ '; __ "_mitteq. ~ written represents ion f oi Hindi bei]lg ! t ght , th .. - p!imary classes, but in spit of ft a school whe;re Urd alon_ '
: is tau.ght , has been open ; i fl ! (c whether-it is,,a fact-that former y_ <>1',1y .Hindi wa i;a, ht · -th
school at Ugala.n and only ecently an Urdu krlo · che was posted; there and so t h.ing qf Hindi h~s :be on'ti nued; I i ·
I
. :MusLrn OOM.M:Ultl'rY tN "Tri ffiRIGA.TIQN: DEPARiMENT'. .
. 273. Chaudhri Afzill Haq-;--(af Has the attention of the Honour able. Revenue Membei<been invited - to-the eoniolidiit-ed:::~sta-tement showing
~!!i~: P!QPQrljollate ~eprElB«mii.&tfon oFthe various communities serving in the _ different departments- of the Punjab. GovemnieriLas .it: stood: on the 1st·
·. Jlpluary 1926,?; ·t::-. , - - .,;. 'c-- __ • ~-= - :.': =~-'-- -·--. :. -_ ,· - - (b) Will 'the ":r:Ion~urable Member be pleased to state the reason for the, 0-paucity - of Mualirn community in the Irriga ti~Jl ;f;)_epa~~~t ? , __ -~\- ·:Jof'WJ?:~~ steps,"cioei th~ Honourable Me:rri&ei propose ta.king to make-. .up ~e nu,inb_e_r_ of ~llha~dM$:in this- department?~:- . - "The Honourable Mian Sir Fa1:J..i~H11saha :, (a1 Yoo; _ i:.:\.' (b) In· .the Engiqeerings-etv1oe,-tp.e rea.son_w~ lack - Qf ·m.en possesiing _ _ the i te(lbnioal quali:6ootion:a· _pl'.6SCribed- 'by "the rules· of reomifim&Ilt. · Iri: :.-~·-.··-·--~--- -~:.. ~-- ,- -".:..:.--:-· .,;.. ~-- ---.-·-------. ·-·-,--- -- ~-""/;_· --,_--···· -
_D
. . .. -=·-.HrNDI_ PRACH.Al;tNI StB~A. . .
"-·. 212.: Lala Joti:- ·Plll'Shad: Will. the Honourable Minister for Edu03- Jion . please- state :~ . . : '. ' - . - -
- - (a)'. whether:,th~ 0Govetnment - is ·aware th~t - a sooiet)T for - pr~iµ~ting ' · · the toocmng ·of 0Hmdi langtmge named Hindi' Prsohami Sabha.
_ has been started at Hissar by Pandit Tha._kur Das, M.L.A:, - .: and a · Ir.rge number of -- schools · have been 'open·ed by: that
society ; · · - - -- - · · .: : .. : -- - : ·- · · : · ·
(b) whether the district. education authorities are. opening their schools in· these very centres with the -result thaf there is keen competition 'between the two .kinds of schools ;
(c).'whether theHonourable Minister is aware of the fa.ct that a charge- - of_ theft against Pandit · Bhambu . Nath,· Teacher, Hindi
Praehami Sabha, Ladwa.. was brought .by District Inspector of Schools and that the Sub-Inspector of Police who was de puted to investigate-the-theft case found the charge absolute- !Y fa,ls~_? _ -- -- - - · - - --
.: ... : 'fhe llc,nourable -MJ-. - Manohar Lal : - (a) Government , has DO· c~ormatj?~ _on; the :mbj_ect: : . . . --~-! -, 'Jb) ThiB matter is under the control of the focal authority;' ·: . ·:-c
(e) Govemmenuhas no inforination on the subject, which is uriaer ~:::tbe control of·:the lo~l authority. . --· - - -
(d) whether it is a fact that there are 110 Iµndi books in the rural library opened by the Education Department-jn the' Hissar' District? . - - - ·0- _
The Honour~ble Mr~ Manohar- Lal: (a),: (b'; and {c) Gove~nment. hes no informa tion _r,s to the represen tB tions received by the' District. Board, Hisser, or .as: to the aQtiort :i;akj'lll: by it, _ .... __ . ·
.... (d} The yillage libraries are unde~_-tlie:_coitrol· o( the District: ·Boorl;. but in the, case of the literature supplied by the E-drico.tion _Depattm.enti
.- Hindi trsnslefions a.re often · included; '·· · - -- . "~ . • · · -- · -- · · ·
92.1 UNSTARBBD QUESTIONS A.ND ANSWERS.
1Vollime IX A, age~~.
' ' PUNJAB LEGISLA VE ~OUNOIL. I[ it T J Y 1 1.
! - I . !Jo o . ble Mi~n ~ir Fazl-i-Hasain.] ! . . I J
. the ranches, it IS not easy to state the reasons with ~n:y erta ,::1 . e very glad to hear the honour ble member's viewa O the - H h as any.
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Government has more than on e stated its poli~y 'of givi to all, to share the responsib il ties ~f administration rovi
ow the necessary qualifications ed.u~tional or t~hni al. · endeavour to give full effec to ~heir princi~Ie; ' ' . . . ! : ! !
. . _ MUSLIM ~OMMUNITY IN TH Fo~EST DEP~TjmJN . · · Chaudhri Afzal Haq : (a) Has 1the attention!oi t e H
.. e . venue Member .been invited to he consolidated ~tate ent e ro ortionate representation of the aridus co~uni~ie~ s rvin
cliff t departments,' of the · Punja Go:Vernment a.slitjst od o 'Jan . . 1_926 ? . .· . . . :1 \ \ I -
';"' (~ Will the Honourable Member b pleas~ to state 1t~e easo
:pau i of Muslim community in the - For~st, Depa.rtmehtj? (c What steps does the Honourabl Me~ber proposal ta · g t
up h number of Mnhammdans in t s d~partment ? . I : - . . . I ' - e Honourable Mian Sir Faz i-H;usain: (a) !Yes.
(b an~ (?) Various reasons ha!e een f assigned for I it, .' nd ; m,o st .· . es · ne IS in the answer to. question o. 25481 asked an;d Ian er m t e
,_ ll$t . noil but I will be glad to hear t e tjonourable itjertib rs's eory if b~ . a any. · I ·
MOTOR LIOENSES IN T ~NORA DISTfUQ~ _, · .. ·Chaudhrl:Ram Singh: ill ~hei Honoura~l~ t e
b r be pleased to state the num er ~f motor lice:ns~ . SU , Kan District for plying taxiir on hir and also state t~e h · her -·~ b ~ongi:ng to the K,aiigi:a Distrio ? \ , . I ·, .
e Honourable Mian Sir azl-i-Husain : .:&ort -nine !~. ," l hold road certific~tes valid, .. ·. · .· t~e .. Kangra i. i~tri t.
· -elev n are owned · by "residents ol the Dll!tiict: ; - L : \ -, -- .. ·~· ... · ·-·•· . .: . . . . . ... .. - .. ] i !
, · '; _ BADms_ RV~G IN G~A DISTRIO'f.1 I • Chaudhri Ram Singh-: · W th~ Honourable the
0 pleased to state it it is a· fact : !. ; - J l a) that the Badhis li~g in the. Kaugra_ ' District r o .- - as well as the ·tillers of t e soil : !
~ • I Co, 1
b) that the Badhis represented to, Government pra, , g t
,:-i:.: :_,'L :t1i:t!c~1~~h!~t:1 ssth!!!!~:10:ru~t = .. _ Ba~jn, that cJass? . · .. i · . j ;.
>.: :' .... Q H~o.aJ;,J1rl\JiP. Sir Fazl i-H~n: A refere ce · _ ~ d ·;~ ~ }lie l~ 9-ffe~. ~~ ; on_rooeip of ~eply an answler j. be
KB:oL-KIARA TAWA,N •
s _ 283. Kh~-Bahadur Mien Muhammad Hayat, Qureshi : {a) WiJI : ~the Honourable Revenue Member be pleased to state whether Jt is a·faciC .·tllat_a penalty called Khnl·Kiaru Ta-wards imposed on the. failure ot tne' - amindars on 'the perennial canals to observe certain mles regarding the · .ii.vision of fields into definite plots (K frara.,) for the purposes · of irrigation ;
I - -
ZAMIND,A.RS IN THE SHAHPUR DISTRICT, - -
281. Khan Babadur Mian Muhammad Hayat, Qureshi: Will the ,_;Honourable Revenue Member be pleased to state- • _ _
{a) what action be proposes to take to ameliorate the condition ot the samindars holding lands· on either bank of the river _ Jheltnn: in the Shahpur district, who have been adversely affected by. the opening of the Lower and Upper Jhelum Canals ;
(b) whether he is prepared to consider the advi~abili.ty of granting these zamindars land in the new colonies ?. · ·
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl·i-Husain: .(n)_G-over!).ment -has 'l:Ulder its consideration the question or affording relier to those who have
, . suffered severely owing to their lands having become water~Iogged through seepage from canals in Shahpur and other districts. Government admits no legal liability in the matter, hut desires to help the sufferers as · far as circumstances permit. __ Enquiries are being made in - the tracts
.affeeted. · .. (b) The question of the nature and extent of the relief-to. be afforded is
· also under consideration. In many villages now affected bywater-logging, the advent of the canal caused an increase in cultivation and the loss
- sustained from water-logging has not been so great as the gain from irrigation. In other villagas the loss has exceeded the gain or there has been loss without
.g-ain, e.y., in villages which are not irrigated by a canal but iµ-which water- logging has occurred through proximity to a canal. - ;
t . The cases of those villages which have . suffered. most severely-will l:ie, "given priodty in considering claim,1:1 to. rlief. -~--
282.. Ganc:elled. ·
GRANT oF tA:ND iro FETTY :aoLnElRs IN ·ra.E" SuN· tLAQA.- • ·' 280. Khan Bahadur Mian Muhammad Hay11t,~Qureslu :-{a)- Wilf
,the Honourable Revenue Member be. pleased to state wllether_it ~ a fa.ct that 'the-average eulturable area owned by the individual holders qfthe SUll Daqa_ ~ Tab.ail· Khu.shah of the· Shahpur District is .very sm~ and they· are eo:q· ·
- sequently in a miserable plight, particularly in case of the. failm;e ~r rains; ·· _ - -
(b) if so, is the Honourable Member prepared to consider thE3 advia,ahl· .. lity of granting thfl petty-holders lands in the new colonies ?
. The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: A reference has been- -made -to the Depnty Commissioner, Shahpur, whose reply has not yefbeeµ , :t1)ceived. - · ·
981 UNS~.A.RRED QUljlS'.ltONS _,lND AN!JWEBS,
:...;: ... -
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- - ANNOUNCEMENT FRO THE CHAIR.I PANEli OF CH. IRMEiN.' I
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Under rule 8, ela se (1 ), I appoint th foll honourable memb s t9 the panel of -- Ch irm
_ _ tbe current session - i - J i - :•:S~Muhamm_ad Iqbal. i I i
.;:::!,~~dar Hayat Kb n. .• I i. I
i ardar Ujjal Singh. ,
-- e question of revision is now u
! . ! ! th~ Lower Jhel~m; C nal nn·nnm
I i ' . i l Rs. ~- P.
j 1 . - 1924-25_., . . 4,01~ I 2 o < . 192Qa~26 37..(182 : 2 0
; r926~2r I 47 ,62~ : o o _ - - - - . , I .(,L!. _ ~oes _involve _ll.!,ore labour, but it is\ believed to ~ripg ve ~ good
I I
er consideration. j
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i i , PUNJAB LEOIB_LATI E COUNCIL, [ 21WJ' UL
RESOLUTION RE RELEASE OF POLITICAL PRISONERS. 988',
if; Oil the other hand, the Goveriurient • continues~ to treat .them indifferently.· it will make-them its enemies. They will afternndergoing thefr sentences,
_ willvery likely try to h~eak.thela.w again and. tltus-crcate·asitua.tionin:i;h.ei coup.try.to .eontrolwhieli..the offioers"of the G"ovetriment_·wfil:bav:e :to-.p~· ~nYc ·a:· sleepless nighk. I remember it· perfectly well that I and tht ·party? to which.·I'belonged~ had eome here to breakthe law and· not to.makeit; But- the kind attitude of the predecessor of the Honourable tho HomeMembee. made that pflJ.1iyrespect these defective laws; · _ _ ,.;::
-_ - Having said this much, l will: now request mv friend, the honourable: mdver otth~ x~solution,- to see' his way towithdraw .. his motiorr;_ :I make· .. this request· because I see that the-present circumstance~-are not.-fav:ouranli,: - fof pressing such a 'resolution. __ Th0" .politieal p·arty;_ wJifoh oiice claimed-to hAve 'the welfare of the pohticalprlsoners at heart' l::IB,s since grown indifferent towards- them. - The officers of the Government; I should say responsiblEt: officers of the GovE)rnment, - are: trying to make a mouritain-oi a mole bilk: Even the most in~griificant matters are being represented by them to the! GoverQIUent as conspiracies agaipst the State-; I see. that not _ only the: Chief Secretary, whom I have·alwaysJmown to_ have no place:in his heart: for-our aspirations, but even more- rosponsible members of theCouneil, _ like·\ thtc> Home Member, pay no hood to our reasonable· demands, They rather~ laugh at us -when we make any requests - and on .more than-one occasion our most m oderate wishes have been _ trampled down as if it were a cbild''s.' play. _ Not only that: efforts are sometimes made to degrade the publie-:
. spirited and· sincere national workers in the eyfls ui their fellow-workers and _their countrymen. ··-Jsay again that it is notthepropertimeto askfor_me:tey~ for tho political prisoners because we have. only recently found that respon,..-· sible. .members ·of both the principal communities in the province·-'10 .not foel ashamed in. asking the - Government· to appoint English officers· even: on lower posts; because they say that they havelost all faith iri their own: men. It is a pity that t·hings have come to such a pass, but 'aince it is so; _I think my honourable friend ought to withdraw his resolution: ·
· Mr.M~A.Ghani(Non-official, nominated): Sir, I hav~ so far :refrained> from taking part in the deliberations of this Council.fer, whenever I _11,ttende.d, it T found that almost all the talk here related to those base, degraded and de moralised poltitics which are called communal politics. Being a labourite,. l have a.lways simply hated these politics. Even - outside thiS Council hall Lhave always very scrupulously kept myself alooffrom the clutches of com munalism which is mainly responsible for our ~a-very and for almost all the: ills t4is beautiful land of the five rivers is so -: sorely suffering, from. · I ain very gladto :fini! thatjhe present resolution of the release of politi .. ea] prisoners hill! on its face nothing to do with communalism. · It is therefore · - ' ., tbfit I'propose .to speak on it, ·~
The resolution asks- for the immediate release of all ' political prisonerirc now undergoing imprisonment who Were convicted and imprisoned fot-~ <lffences committed against the State'. I wish l could -have supported this' resolution, but I feel a little embarasament in, understanding the real import~ of the: words "political prisoners'. There are different kinds of politfoiLr . prisoners .• The science of politics has developed· immensely during the la.st.:; - oent:ury or: so. There is nothing in this world that may not now-eome und~r/ the -- science _ 9£ politics. - Even the- soienee of· economies now·J9l'mS _ a - veeyi-:. ... _~ . . . : . . -
192 •. ·
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PUNJAB LEGIBL.ATI E- cduNOIL.
RESOLUTION RE RELEASE OF POLITICAL PRISONER~. 9Sfj . itron is, whether ·.these_ political - prisoners _ or the_ sp~c.aJled politicatprisone~~
._ -w'ere ieally doing anything good to us during thoae ·days. It may be said,. - '.Sir~- that: they were trying 'their best to get swllraffot this oountry,·to;ge~: 11eli:..govem.n:ient for us, but I. am'. sorry to say ·that ~hat term· swara.j ha~::
- JJowhere _ been .defined. We never knew · wliat: was tbs constitution of the . - .so-ealled sw-araf Government. But wha.t we: do' know. is - that_ labo~era .and workmen had no place whatsoever in the' swaraj politics of those days.·: L.abour -. as labour had no place in those politics. I. always regarded the move-, m.~mt as a_ big capitalistic movement, Swaraj - Government if .it ever had -eome intoIoroe would have been simply another ca_pitalisti9 g_<lvetnme~t _in, - this country._ · These political prisonsre or leaders . simply .wanted to sub-;
,stitnte · Indian capitalistic government in place of the present British· Gov.:.. • ernment. They only wanted to have offices under Government,_ :Many _ _ ofthem saw a very good chance of becoming :very rich and wealthy._ Manr_ ·
__ of them saw good chances of becoming rulers of this· country. · They had no thought whatsoever for the poor labourer 'orworkman ofthis country.' We know from experience that those people ~anfo<l to establish. in this countri
_ 11:n Indian state like - so many natfvEl states in India. We also know, Sir, :that after ali British capitalistic Government is far better than the Indian.". capitalistic_ Government; The labour' partj has always been against 'such'.
_ ~: movement ; they do not want this sort of sw!iraj for this country / It • , - · Js, therefore, -Sir, that 1 beg to oppose tliis resolution. So long a:s see-:
t~ons 121, and 1~4~A exist on the statute book, the· offenders against those •· sections are- criminals and-I do not -see ·any reason why the ·Government_,
11liould make any distinction between criminal 'and criminal: If any J>!isoner in jail deserves any sympathy from the. Government or itny-: _ .a¢ne~ty from Government it is those who are economical pris<me:rs,-:who oil .aecount of necessity have chosen to help themselves from . the :wealth ?f :~ - :those who 'have hoarded it somehow or other. · With these words I beg - -to oppose this resolution. - -
_ Pandit Nanak Chand [Hoshiarpur (Non-Muhammadan) Rural] : Sir, I:am rather in an unfortunate position, because I was, not present when tha _
:'hconourable mover proposed this resolution; But; Sir, some very interest ... '. j.ng questions have .been put to the mover 'by the last speaker. Th-ere were, .some doubts in my. mind with regard Jo the definition of the term "political prisoners.' I hope and trust that the honourable mover .does not mean by:
_ the. term ' political prisoners ' those who have 'been guilty of murderous ~ - asseults or who have been .guilty of arson and loot. Because we find.that wharf
_ there was a certain- amount - of excitement prevailing, a large nuinoer of· -p~ople took advantage of this excitement and wereguilty ~f murderous
- .ass11,ults and taking away. of innocent lives and also.,of loot, .. If. I remembe» -- · :aright, more than one speaker from· the Sikh benches dissociated hll!iself
-' _ fi'f;m such persons who were-guilty of such crimes as Tha Ve merittoned •. _)f the· . '_ ,;'Opject of the mover is to exclude those persons and his resol*tion.Js nie:taly
::- ,-::_-confined to those people who have been imprisoned- on account ' of their. ii :p9litical opinions or for the 'propagation of their political.opinions, _theri T>
- - h~ve got sympathy for his resolution. It should. be made quite clear byhiin, 'that so far as his resolution is coneerned he has gct_t nothingto do whatever
--, with the violent crimes which -sometimes goes by. the- . name .of:' 'ffolitioa1: -erimes., It is a very essential· thing because - if we.- want tff·get' self~goverµ~ ment oz' swara], swaraj government shall also have :to niafotain Ia~<torder
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'PUNJAB LEIGISLA.T VE c'.lOUNCIL, . I
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·wpich _wl:\s opposed to the very.elf,mleiltary principles of ju~tfoe. •. The result .. " was, .as. I-ha.vs said before, -~ general upheaval "at: different phl'.oes, Amritsar· Being one-of ·them. · The I®tters were :made -worse;wheri General Dyer: ~ea. at the una.rmed~crowds at Amritsar; . Instead of showing sympathy :with)
·. t'.be: excited masses, lhe. Government··. punished_· some of _'tliem. with· deterrent:;. sentences OI imprisonnien t W'.I.U a few of tliem were hanged. . . . - . - . . . :
- - . f-Titi third Iririd.· of political pri&Qners ~e- those who are termed-. _Gnrdwara-; prisoners. In. this category I h~ve also· included those persons who were, conviot'ed for writing the so-called offensive ·articles in newspapers. Th~· -
. ,Jiml class. of these prisoners 'are those who were employed in armies and{ , '.WJ10 took to'woo.ring,black turba.:ns and kitp~s. I do not _ll!ge the release:
· of:priso.ners who tried to create mischief in.the armies. But :a.t the, same ._time,.it .isnot unreasonable to ask fortherelease'of those prisoaers.whowere'
'sentenced to as much>as 14 years' imprisonment ·for wearing black turbans:' or .kirpans. As might.have become clear, no justice was done in the case of
:-all these political prisoners. But even admitting that they were rightly_ ,- punished, the changed conditions of the country now demand that thes~-'
. . ptjsoners should not bekeptinjails any longer. To. every civilised country:~ -. 'the practice is that with the change of conditions political prisoners are at> ··
once released,' I can also assure the Government that it will earn the lasting:~ ·· gratitude of·. these prisdne:rs. by releasing them forthwith and thus allowing+
, them to see end live-imlongst their near and dear ones from whom they'~ - were separated a long·time~go. In conclusion I would appeal to the House" •to 'give its whole-hootj;_ed support to the resolution; . . --.
. ·: lw Bahadur P1q1dit Daulat Ram, Kalia · [East and West Centrai.'~ fowns. {Non-Muhr..mmadan), . Urban]: Sir, some sort of .distinotion has,t~,_ be made between offences which arepoliticel .and ·offenceswhich are .most:, heinous ~nd against ~ll canons .of society.. Under the fast category fall all~
Ahe offences committed by - those people who are in · jail, in · eon-. . neetion with the .... Ghad,ar con.spirac.y in India, . Theae are the . people who; were. trained . in. America. and other countries of the. world and who were sent .
. . to Indra so that they might-commit these offences here, when all the - world l ·,we,s-fighting against the enemies ofoivilisat ion .. -These peoplecame to India, not with.,a view to work for. the-political reformation of India. but simply', for the purpose of embarrasii4J.g the Government and. they are the enemies,' .
· not.oDly ofthe British-Empirebut of all civilisationin the world. That.was a..~· • time when the whole of the Punjab was under different conditions froni those existing now. Fortunately conditions then, were not as .they are now, ... ·
_ rr;hl:l Mubr,mmadru;ts, . Sikhs, . E;ii?:du~, Christians and all .ether. communities, were helpingtlie Government in. their, attempt to win the war -on the fields, of Frarwe .. .But, these people who came into India, were trairi.ed)Y German;r,
- _w,ith German money and they came with .inst1-.uctiollsfrom .Gennan, spies £0:, work against the British E:µipire and against civilisation i11 general; These.; are thepeople.who least of all deserve the· consideration of the House. l:. think I 'must' resume my seat with these remarks and I appeal to the Honse- .not to let out these,prisoner~ froni the jail .. (He~r, hear). ·. ,
_ . ·... Klim- Babldur Mian ·Muba:m·mad Hayat,, Qureshi [Shahpur Weatt (Muhammadan)-, Burel] (Urdu): Bir;' the resol ution -before the House is too{ wid€ to be comprahended. The term .'political prisoners' may. include' even·, those wlto wet~ ·sent. to jails for, ha~g committed serious crimes:. I,; there~;t fore,' cannot' but .opposs: the :resolution~ · ·
. l :S.ESQLUT!ON' I,E RELEASE OF POLITICAL PRISONERS·
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- PUNJAB LEG ISLA IVE i OOUNCIL.
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Beeords of these prisoners have now been very csrefully examined and it has been decided to recommend to - the Government of India- ·that wie-third ot· the prison~is confined in jails in other provinces should be retransferred fu" this province. ·
Honourable members will have observed that the fignres I have given contain no figures for prisoners of the very large number of persons who were convicted after 1919 for offences agail!,St the State, in· connection with the various manifestations of the · - non-co-operation. movement sd'.prominent up to 1923. · ', All these prisoners AS :fa.r as Ican, ascertain have been released, .· , - -
- ._I\vilLriow dea(with each ~lass of prisoners seriatim. -First .of all the- . prisonerseonvieted before 1919. - These were convicted with.oneexception · during the years between 1915 and 1917. Those stillin confinement are the residue of a-very dangerous class. They were convicted ofone or more of·, the following offences :'- . -
· Conspiracy to wage war against the King, waging war against the King; abetrnents _ or attempts to mutiny, dacoity with murder., attempts at dacoity connected with such conspiracies.
"I'hese offences fall into very serious categories. They were: committed at a time of great danger when India and the Empire were at war. There is. abundant proof that those who committed them received assistance Irom sources outside India and were instigated by the enemies of the Empire to, commit those offences. The men who remain in custody are the leaders of that very dangerous class, a class who, if their schemes had..not, gwing to- the vigilance of the Government, miscarried, would have transplanted the· horrors of a great war and revolution into the homesteads and country sides of India itself. eome of them escaped arrest. They are still plotting· from bases outside India to - disturb the tranquility and constitutional: pl'ogress of India to greater-destinies. With these, many of those still in, jail would rapidly - re-establish touch, if they were released, to the
. detriment ot the common weal. As regards· this class Government has no· - jjitention of taking .any special or general step to release those of this class who.
:~tm ·ra1~i:n-Jn co~riemenL - , _ . . ·. _ __ _ .. · · . . _ . . . . . _ Sir ;_}ne~d not dwell :on the class of offences or the dangers to the . state - whicharosefromthe offences which were committed in the case of the 1919• iv~vigts. T~ey :are~well known to the members ofthis House.' .Lneed only
-:say t_lj.at _ the xnen at present in custody are - the residue of, very' much J~g~ .number, _ At one: - tiine the number was over i,700!- -Ma-ny of these :rec~~~ct short sentence(and:these mosquito craft; if 1-niay·~all-them so; Of- 1;he ';cruiser of the h_a,1;tJ~ship - fl~et. of the revolutionaries wsre eithe! swiftly patq,Qned:_o_r sp:ee_(_lily _releas13'd on the completfon of the_rr ·ijentences; As re:..
·garcl_!i_ We~ moreserious cases;_ v_ery_shortly after their conviction · Governmen:t ~eriewaj.J1ie!t ~a;ses and i:ele~sed 24fpersorls •. - A}ittle Iatet they submitted l;heJ)leE! of_ the remainder to the late-Mr. Justice ¥1!-i'tineau; 'who e-:xamineq . ·thj:lui w.itp.:_yery gi:e_a,(care and made a report to the Government. - Acting- ' Qn-~·s_- ~d~ce the:y_rel_e!J,sed 99 more. They submitted a list-of 687_:mote at the
-Ji.me. of tp.e_RoyalProclaniatioii with a recommendation tha.t"these sholilq. be- -;;elease~:'ip.;a_gen:eral ·amnesty._ }Ehis also was -don~.: ,I~Jid~tfon} th~ sen-. len~es:\yer~ "ery carefully sci:ntWsoo .and reviewed. · Numerous_ sentences: ·. of deittb: w~r_e commuted fo-transportationJorlife; and '·numeto11s:·sentenees~
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RESOLUTION. RE RELEASE OF roI.ITIC.tL PRISONERS. -·· - ,..,.
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• - PUNJAB LEGISL TJ COUNCIL, . .I .
Ho~~ble '.Sir iGeo:ffrey de:M:onttri enc} .. ] I - __ ortation for life were changed o shorter sentences!of imp · onn; nt.
remaining th.ercefor_e_ . are _the dan erous 'conspiratofs :_ a ~ :ht . dtlu sty hose records WEµ"e .not found to arr11nt action at I tlie ime · an of"
t)i e uriierous examinations. These e me~ who havejbee ~a 1 to ~ss ·1Vl o the very gener~us tests of cleme cy ~hich h~ ve be'n ~o de . app . ed
_ ;~ o so many occasions. The rolls o the~e convicts now co e u ust ke .. :t se of other COI1_victs in the ordinary course ~or the order~ f Go rnm nt'
.. --~-u ovemm __ -_---- enf h a_ s n_ .• 0 i_ntentio. n of ta ·in.gjan.~ special tg_:_ -e- eral tion for . - ,the remature release. -oa· ' ' !
" : .: srega;ds:priso~el'R convicted of on-+olent crime iri c nne ·.the G rdwaras l have pointed out t t tliere are only ine uoh
· ;;sti . i : eonfinement ~ow and _ that by be l~t f ugust thtyJ ·, 1 be _ Th s ~re, as the honourable membe of ihjs House airef __ ILa mi u e>rearguard of;what was _at one e $· vast army ot ~o viets
- . ~ot t allto this .House the conditions _ hieh were offere4 tlo - hese on ts 'an z ider whichthey could at any ti e Mve obtained th~ir rele s • T ey we e ininently reasonable and many conV;icts have avtil~d the elve of
·,t'ho e conditions. Those still inearcer ted can follow t~eif e m 1 at ny 'mo nt, I showed in the debate la t sp).in.g that th~s~ c ndit ns o y · •ref · to the futme. They did not exaei any apolo~, ~n ad ssio of pas ·sta~es. T_hey c~n be a~ce-pted . t any t~me _by- tho e th _wis tow rk_ -Ul t e best interests of Sikhs without st ma ~nd without emo Se. · · - .: _ I need not also recapitulate the c emebcies which ~a~e een e erci ed · __ o;n · ~u- -so- ccasions_ res-ulting in extens ve- g~ol_,.· deliveries tn ._thf cas f G ?· wa a nsoners. As l look back over e events, they st~etbh out t me m ope lo g vista of successive clemencies. I n~ed only recall to our emo · es
·_,h_·-. e .. _ (}~- o:_ f_e x __ t~ns- · ive_g·_ aol deli-v01;ies inc ~e{tio·_·-n with G~u~k:r· _ -~-- on = re _ '.t~ ne o~ca.s10n, on, the occas1?n of n~u-Muhamma,aµ _ ots t m- 11ts _ n~ later o~ :an9ther occasion. _ I ! j . - - -_
,: ... - T have explained at some length the. debate las~sp - -· g t wh ! ~- Government is unable to r~l ase ~hpse in this clt~1--ory
·!'t) a '. rn custody. 'J:1,!1ose reasons st hol~ $ood. I t. nft _. ma. j~ . ~y~e:n.t ha4 made every llow,an~e for this\ ola 1; of
:,nd _h9roughly understood wit~ sy pat}tetic understa.n4m · the moti ~s »r - .. ch:they w~re __ actuated. Smee t at dpb~te the GoteJl~n~ sag __ in
:~ __ ,ca_ e- _._- _t_. __ - _-1_. all--f -e_-_w_t-~h- _o_-rec-ha __ o_ r_ t~-a- n- ! ~: __ ekn-st ns1es_a_-_~-~f tr•;_t::::;:~tt __ ~f f:_: · o.0- : __ .. :.·: __ t_ -and w e in prison servingimpriso:°111e tin ~efa:uit of paJri~ iie _- _ ne-h_ y:~ . .Ii~· _ ~e!lf!ed. A few who were mp son having serve4 ~he l!U tant ve
, ··'.effi e~ :ces and were only still detaine on !account of J.l:UIUS · e · for ail_ -~ffe _ s·,have" also been released. So e tho had rec~it · - ·co ~'!it ve --
, ·!.lie __ <l~:?psev~ni,J_cli~fgesc9~ected 'tl:i itiu~h the sa~~s~t ·-rev ts h ve · _ iw;d t_ en: l!e_-~~--~A~es_. r~vi~wed wit~ t_he r sul __ t rt¥t they wi¥ ije elea at an
·jW'l ate . .- As_reg:!'~~~~he~emau~der, overnm.entdoesfo~p opo tot ~e ~~y g n..~al or spec1ah1t_~psfor their p maiure ei1largem13nt. We ye ad ~o g _ tro~bl? rEJce:n~Iyiµ the pro!ince ·~h1 direct actionphis ti~e 1 st, y ar <aL a._ ~lpmdi a~ in. M~y _of t~s y_e m:1.L~hore and I ilo~ m ~t n •. =; :Th{&- for whom direct action has its at ract;ions must alsp Je rn t t.it a-s _ ·
p c _-wbioh must be p_aid. They can t have it both ways_.
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]lESOL UTION RE COMPLETION AND 0-PEmNG OF THE 8HAHPUR CJANAL BR0ANCH •.
.. ~ J.>r. Shaikh Mubam~d Ahun [W~st I>unjab-Towns (Muhaninl~d:an), _ : · ·Urbap.J (Urd.u)i: Sit. the resolution that it and-sin my.11ame run~ t.hus :. · - .. ::: <: ·• , - " Tliis Couneilreoommends to the Gover,iim~ilt that' Shahpur Canal Branch -be_- c6m- ·. ,. . .. . pleted and opened without any further delay," .. . · · · -:i::~ . -Sir, I fe~fthatI should n;iake it:elearinthe ~ery beginn:ing:that by moving
·this i:esolutiQn I ha ve not in view the opposition of the Government. . When . ·:.e'\fer- T-deem it advisableto oppose the Governme iit Ldo so o-penly>ri::n!l wit-h~
: out fear. · Sir,. to-d~y my task is very unpleasant .. I na\+e to nliirate the • , -·neglected talesof miseries and sufferingso! the aamindara ofthatunfortmiate_
· (so r sheuld siiiy) tra~t ofJand which goes ·. by :the .n.a,:rhe ,:ot Sb.a.hpur dis~. :·t_rict. '· Sir, J have no personal bias- or pr:ejudic,e against the .owner$ of the
. .. private- ca:nals in :the Shahpur district. but on the othe:t hand., we ate closely .: connected with them by long ties of friendship and Jove. I fullyr:ealise the ' .seriousness of the situasion. · I ~d.ei:stand ,,that· lam,_risking my personal ·
·.·. .. friendship with theleading inen of niy distfict hut at the same time I feelit · .-~ IllY moral duty tovoice the .f!301ings,of,thoae·~am.incfa:rs who are:leadirii".&
. very miserable lif ein the_ dis_trict>> The niost unspeakable at_r()(}ities,are being ,perpetnited on them and· even the Government'whos.e subjects they a.re have < deemed it fit to turn. deaf ears to tbeirlegitiniate grievances." I pity their
- miijerabl~ lot .. · They are going from bad-to' worse cevery da,y~ Sii;, itis not . . :. :a re·cent t:r'i)uble; 'b:Qt thp3- bave been passing ~ ve,ry' hard -life foroths.
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RESOLUTION· RE Bl!lLEASE OF POLITICAL PRISONERS. ·9:4..· · As regards the first two classes ofprisoners as the ones convi~ted: before ·
· ·1919 and the ones convicted in 1919; I must make it clear that Government has not a shred 'of sympathy'· with them. . These men by their acts brought
· danger and imffering toIhdis, They threatened · the very foundations of· -eivilisation and of established · Government in this. country. Apart from . the :material danger they infli¢ted they also wounded India in reputation in the
. -eyes of the Empire' arid in the eyes of the world, in a more subtle and in a ~ . more permanent manner, .Itis difficult to understand the. morbid int~;re11t . )hat-some people take in this class of prisoners. I believe some people are .
-. m:isguide1 ·enough to call them patriots. Uthi_s:is patriotism, then happy.in,.'.'._ - ''deed is-the-country• that breeds no patriots (Hear, hear); With these· words, : ;· I· oppose the resolution. . . . . . -.-.. . -- .
Sardar_ Hari-Singh '[Ambala Division· (Sikh); Rural] .: (Urd11): Sir,. I had already .known what would be the fate of my
. rnNo_oN. resolution. My .honourable: friend has asked me to with.: <-draw my resolution which I am not _ prepared to , do. In my . opinion
no convincing arguments have been advanced against _my resolution. ' By political prisoners I. do not mean those · prisoners who· .. wete
. <guilty of murder or arson or of waging Wal againBt the King, but! mea:Qt . . those. who endeavoured to establish Swaxaj in the. country: Therefore,
· .Leommsnd my resolution to the eonsideration of the House.: . Mr. President,: The resolution proposed runs:
" This Council recommends to the Government to .f<>l:'thwith release all political . prisoners now undergoing imprisonment who were convicted and imprisoned f'or
_ offences committed against the State," · The question is that that resolution be adopted. (The motion was lost.)
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-PUNJAB LEGIBLA
condition of these_ poor samindars ? Sir, ii books or articles be' written on the-subject it would not help in the least the zamindarsin their present hard- ship - and embarrassments. · · ·
The. Honourable Mian Sir Fazl·i·Husaiii : Sir, would the honours able member please explain the difficulties involved in the batai system be cause what he has said may be equally true in case of cash payments.
Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam : ~ think it would have been better: - to de~] .with all thepoints raised in the discussion at the time of exercising: my right ofreply, but Sir, as you have raised this point now, my reply is that the appraiEement of the produce between the tenant and the landlord is a qnitedifferentmatter. It is the bounden duty of the landlord to be present at the_ time of.appraisement of produce. But because these landlords have ri.o leisure t_o do so their mnkhtars (agents) attend the· division of tl:ie produce on their behalf. The latter never come in time and when the tenant say~
' that the corn was oO mannds in weight, they say,- no, it was 200''maunds in weight. The more the matter of appraisement is delayed .the more their
-- claim _~ strengthened and because the landlords are most influentui.t people and exercise judicial powers their mukhtars (agents) take undue a.dvantage of their position. Sir, I do not claim to know as much !l>S the Honourable the Member for Revenue · about the matter under consideration. Let him devise some means for the betterment of the zamindars of the said i'laqa. He may not depend on my knowledge of the matter. Sir, the question of opening the Shabpur Canal Branch bas been in contemplation for the last 20_ y!lars and the zamindars have all the time been ~ymg :-
1-:f1Co~i-&!l! u;,_..; l!l,J ,1 i:.1~ ~~ JJ '.J'(~ ~~I .j &~ kb ... J-<- rf f.l ~1
. _ Sir; there arecanais in every part of the province and we being tlie sub -Jects of the same Government claim the same irrigation facilities as are- pro-
- vided to aamindars of other parts ofthe province. Sir wheri the canal has. ~--•--been dug, the buildings and bungalows have been eonstmetedI, Cari.not' arider
.. stand what else stands in the way of opening the canal •.•• The people of the il.aqa are anxiously waiting for water.: They are always cherishing false hopes. They say there the water is coming • .~. • . ·
The Honourable Mian Sir FatJ..;j .. Husain : Front below? . Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam: No Sir, ftqm above, but alas.-
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... ~ ()1.!;i;"J ~ 01:fF.·-f f,. f • . Sir, so far as I understand, the only objection that is being raised against · - the opening of the canal is the false danger of water-logging. Mr. ·Sangster
- has after full - inquiry arrived at the conclusion that the opening of the canal _ - does not involve the danger of water-logging. But afterwards the position
changed. I cannot say what eonsiderations led the Government to drop the - scheme. I admit that certain committees were appointed to go into the matter, though - the members of the said committees. were none but the ofti-
- eia.ls and the retired Government .servants. Sir, can you imagine for a · : _momep.t- tha,t the poeple who have for the last three o~ four days _le~ -po ston&
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BRANO Ii. RESQLlJTICiN- RE COl'IIPLETION AND OPENING 01!' THE SHAHPUR CANAL 948',
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·.t:;;!~tt!rt~11c~iii;~~:f Jf~6;~~iftt~~~Jf ;,j~silt~~Jt;::~~~;*~ -~ll~.t!iat th~ c1:tn~l~~s DJ~n1-.:f.9.i: j,J;ie 1,::J;1gat~9,~ of,!\~11.t. pigt ,9f lfWcl -wW~h
_ ·. ~s;:~1.0:w b~ing_!~ig~te~ kY p~-yat~ cl),~1~1~~d. ·.UJ\VEl~IlD'.J-~,yt in~d8ltfo~ qimi:iils. · ·-J:}:1~t_.!:l,t-tJ:gtt t_1,:qie t.li.eJ<l~~,.'~~~.~-h~t.p~~-c.qp.s~~Wihqµ, p.f t.J~e ~ani;tl;wqµlp_r,l9t:pe
_·J>r_oft~~J:>le 1:li~~~s ,the. y~ve,r,IW,\en,t '3.~qmi:_ecl}he RJ7.Va.t_e; ca~~J)teyJ9µs to : c~~11tr_µctiQJl .. ~ft~e,981J!lll. .co~s~q~~~t!y t~e M9~~r~~t1t .~n~e,~ifµ)~o AAqajre ~he ,-P~V:~~e G!t~~ls -?.1:1\tp~_r:tmo~n.t 9.f ~qm,pe,q~ati?n\4e;ml),,~a~4 b7: ~~e ,~~~~s
;._ ~~~_e.no.rmp~s @d ~-~ v.1ew,~tt.h~~ de,zq~I\d ~Pf\ Gm~~W~wnt, 4~eme~,Ai1e s~1le;me ;,:1;1.l'.lpi;ofip~bJe a~ t~~pl(?te <.J.t9~ped ~t·: . }hr, ij!'!fe .lB. fQe ,!1tal tIWµ;tt. _ )!?.~e -~l,19I~ti;oyJ~leJ~.ap~n~t:.th_e c9!1w~psllltwn.· _.};I~r~yer tli:e -~9yer~eH.t ~9 .~ot
;,~e:~o: 1I~W~W!e Jhe :·(Jwµer!l _pf -\he :,:P?fV~t,e ,capaJs. ~r,_ctq~:r;e ~0 fll.JJ,alS -~!11¥-11.~D.g:-~P ~~lr~r:)>l!J.Ces_as Well, a~d ~,:qere),s. ~~tet7h>gg~~~ aJ~p ,p.!It .~{\Calfal 41~·s:· b_E:l~pst~$>E:l(l;. Wb;Y :i~en;~l:f9uld the 9~~~~!9,11: qf W.llttij:,-I9gg_i,~g:PJ~~d Fl ;1Ae_V?_'ay of -~I~~Dl..M ,the S.4~hpurJJ~B~ J3p19qh,?. Jt+~.t~fe t.b,~~y.t,bf,t :ll~_C:~~e t4~re-,;1s, 3: qa~w.~r. Qf, w~~QI:Iri~,~l:ig _ lett~~Jle~:Rle.R~~sh_for_;W:/lt~J:Pf -]'.'t'.:,t~r. __ l_t }S J;.~e -~~.f~-~B9HCe.,a.p~on <,_9.m1ipla,1µmI :W , .. h~~q\Wpe ... ~n~.,ij,ie
-~.P.-~~?I! to .~ho,nr qe i~4,t~~~d. pt9pps~il lbat r ... is ~e{iu}lfkm.d ije)p;~\9!:_· xin '~~p,e_:~p.-d,: _§n;.;:. J _woplf ;:i;~«:l-11-~at - Hie _ Gov:ernpi~µt _ NJ~t _ }n - @.e .w,y~r~~ pf .; t,J1QUS~ll4_s-_of iP~RI~l.e·~J:ld fqr{b~;ti~~~tit ,qf Ia:rg_e tra~ ~;!1u1,a:th~;}'.,~~~m4.op_en J~e. Sbahpur -0.~:!J.al ~!!3'.ll¢h _~1~J1out_fl:nY}~Jf{h~r ~ell;\y. , ·
~- ,- . _---~~1:P,r~ij~t}.Jthe .re;icilption 1IP:OVep.j11_~~ . . .· ~ , · ·· , "3\'Mi Q;<>itpoi!r~OJ-9JP-?n~ tp iJie Gqyepnp,e~t j;p.~.$lu!.hpur Canal ~ranch b-e completed
- :, _e.1.1-d 01>1:lileQ -~thout_ a~y:_fl;u'.tlwqlelay. -- ·- " . . - , -: .a ~ : - . . . . - . --~-. -~ - .. '. :_· ···.·._, _; __ .·; -·--_----- ' . - - .. _ -- :- - '_":,-··:,_~l.le:q,~~~\i9g,is,-(}litt.U1-ll,~.,re.s_olu~!PP. .Itec l:l99P.ted. · -- - _ -~ ... :- __ ;
,~\- ·,;Mir i~boohMah.mood f Amritsar: (M~attii:nadan),·-~lll'.a_l] (C:Urtlul: frSir, J,:whole'.Jieartedly .-co~atulate_ my honoutablfl-·friend,the mover of_the :,r~9li-i.tfon-tor bis well-worded speech ~nd.thespirit·tn whichhe-has P.la<fed · __
c'the:f.eelin_gs, ~t thezanuri.dars, of. the Shahpur -distriot :before tb.:a House~. Im· ;,w1:t}i,nt,schemes:1ilie._the one.midaumrisideri1ition na.ttu-aJly lead 'to differeriees ,:i>f, Qpm.iqn \&tid0t~ereforalt:'.wo~d:not ~e\s~~nga<-,jf__i . ~er.aa-:.-~om t!ie
. -JlQnQwahle 1}~ .. m_ov.er. __ ·L we .. gathered : inform11it1on ~:from jndepertdent · . sources arid ,~vie-0oine 'to the: concli:ision--tliat fil{e :'teal questi-Op.in issue' is,
.ft-W:1:lir.~e,J1.~_&~illffi~Ps\,~f1,!~e,~t:~?i@!(£2HMJ.!~iff.d,~l~pµt.Jt~l,~ran~h. ::S~i:1~0,,~Y lj,~fJ\E) :-;:fi~11ci;al ,~qµ~y: of-tt!:i~· [email protected]~!}r;tt }lJ [email protected] -~- i'.i~hP_, Jt!3 ;yfl-~~11-h_.rr?~· -'.VJi_ .. ~ 9Jll_,~ __ - ~lt},~oti_. ~- µ_,_- tM\lEJ: 90_ mg i:~_1_~_ d At~~ms · ,._ t_th~;?pe_m_ -: ng- j;P[:~P-~r~~P~::,~ ·il,3r-a~p:isj t!i~1~1!88!•.:Qf Lw,~i,-i~,.lQgguig._ ,.$J;r,,_J_~av:a ,_ ,;~oJj~n~upp-g~d':"WJ,t~p.,,~qpy_~ thfu.P.t¥;nmil~t1~fe:q~4 to.by;my: h@o:q1;a,bJe .
~jpp~!l~:~lf e'3ffiQYi:;{J1.~~rr/i~1t: B~t_.:p1y~ -0pffliqpj,a, ~ot :bJJii~; OAlth(!:cont.ents - -;-,-p~1~pe ,.BB;¥,l:Pnl.~t: .• 1.qµ:ee , RrJ9.qr ;; cp.JWl]J.t.t.~.es _- .W~jlj C~:n.iltJ~uted , to_ en,q.rtiN 2~W &lie- ~~,te!: ~qer~p~i4~r~tiRf-l, :'PJi~ J.a.st ~wpitt® -was :~O~~o~ed ,;,Rt,;p,,E)tji~~@t,,-Po\~~~}Iilyi~;,¥r~&l~?!Wr#!.<'!,~· :Wdsd.qn. .. ln}h~J>p1m.on - (;.;r_Pf \_IDsi_ .• _. >P_""o ,¥1_-_ -~----- i~t~,e i ffi_e:_ ... EeitfuT_.- ~_!ls:_; ~- A'J@E>9'8. 9-~- . __ .. _:, :o_, .. t w_ a¥3r7l0ggJ.n.g lnvol-vad_ ?~3 w~)~Bfr~'i pf the -~R,AAJilur,,p~nal_~:r~lt-~~_,,~~ Jj(tW ffi~91lt~seventy ;..f:h.P~~f"nd.~crAA of.,YWd-.lt.f~,_ir!f~t;ed ::mtJ:!~wq,t~-1.Q,ggltlg.~d m,order .. :-.to .'.:&~@.~v~~f a:i¥fmi.i>£\~Jf}:<p..a,.Rt,~f~:b-Jmil b*Jiji{lpt;ip~.::Ao~ording,t.~,the . "7Rll~WL pf. ~;x;p._-if,pr:qpei;,l1>cW9p..~ ~t,, R$en.J~f_Ef;Js:~:: a~rJQWtdangei .,of &%WY.Ei}tw9..1,ajI@s,pt ~{W!,P~d!!rl\4·; ~- ,'\!!¥0r~)Qgge_d-~~{bnl,the nex~!fi~ ~~@·-~~·1:}~~~1:!,P,9X~erM1e)'[~~ fpr;{6tl'@PJ!es1n:thj3~la.t.fi},e.ounml .lID· ~~!JY.l~: t~t:1~t~r-:~~ ,1¥._q~;:mt<>i:*~-;ll'.ij\\;er ~~·~Qs~d~!l"tl~n: hafui.d - . ~ . . E2
~~O:!,.UJ;J:pN_ fiE COM_I'1'f~'.~Wl'>"\?fP,;:~~!F.N.i~G ~?!~ SBAHPUB CANAL J~ . . - .. - ' - 'BR.A.NOB.
· Maqbool Mahmood.] e to the conclusion that it was ·
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.: _-- Sayad Mwiammad .. Husain. [ M<;>ntgomery/Muhainmadan; iRutal·f·: {Urdµ) : Sir,I also feel called upon to say a few -words in the Hght: of mt_:s p~rsonal kn-0wledge on _this nilioh vexed <J.UG$tion.: of- Shahpnr Branoh. Canal •. _ Before entering upon the subject, I hope Ishall be-excused ifI briefly trace the: histo;ryof land-revenue in this ':country. afuere was a time-when tbe sweep- , «$ and Chama, and such other tow class were the owners of _lruids. ~ey had :
'THE COUNCIL REASSEMBLED AT 2 P.M., -AFTER tUNOH. ~. - Pn.ESIDEN11-/ IN THE CHAIR. - . . . ' -,--
-:Mqreover Sir, the honourable mover of the resolution , should riot lose: - ,siglit of the" fa"ct that "the samindars whose supposed Sli:fferings. have. ; been. narrated "by" him "could not" be benefited -by the ·:·opening of the"
Bhahpur Canal because it would only irrigate that tract"ofthe land 'which . is being' a4:eady irrigated-by Govern!11ent" canals: ---,: - -- _ . _ - .,:
- Now, Sir, I turn to the history of the Shahpur Canal Branch, It was _ undertaken to be constructed sollle · twenty years _ago. . It. WM ~0ao,_t for · · theirrigation of that tract.of land which is now being irrigated by pJ:iyate .: eaaals and Government inundation canals. "No doubt about eight Jakli!i ; -ofrupees have been spent on the construction 9f tl:iis canal._ -We_ ma.y -
· take it as the mistake of the Government who bad not settled _;the __ ql!eS- __ tion __ of compensation: h~:fore they undertook the oonstl'Jloti9n. .Qf the:.:::
-canal, , Consequently it had to be postponed. After this_ .:.~he 13-rf,)a.t w_ a.r -, brokeout, Sir, I admit that committees were• appointed _ t9 go ip.to the~:.· .matter under consideration. The .last committee ;was composedof elCperts.:::
- ~eyexpressed their opinion that the opening of the Shahpur Canal would - ·involve the danger of water-logging and that it can be removeqif ~1:\e bed- ~ ofthe canal jn contemplation be cemented, In reality there is {I,, grruJ,t :: -danger of water-logging on the upper part of the canal and the W{l,ter has-~ .already penetrated the soil two or three feet deep. Sir, there is _.!l!U ilaq<J-: in the upper part of the canal where there is no danger of water-logging_~ __
_ This il,o,q_a extends over a tahsil, The people _ of _the i"laqa are _ r~ally -in a miserable condition. There, is great scarcity ofwater. _ ~heir lands ·· are irrigated by Government canals which supply, W?,ter d~ th_~ Ill()_nt~ :_, of May and June and afterwardi, are dried up. Sir, in_ that_ ilaqa __ muqli :"· -0.epends on the rainfall. There, Sir, the problem of tbl,'l supply of water_": has become very acute. Let the Government try to solve this: probleni.::" 4 my opinion .there are two· ways to do so, that _ is, . either· the _ bed of · the Shahpur - ·canal~Branch be· cemented or froni Jalalpue Canal: scheme _ for which water woulq be taken out of the river by means 91 Hydro- " .Electric Scheme a ·current of·· water be taken and made use Qf" · ·at the.. time of need: .If the latter arrangement is madeLam use. it \vould ·- be-: -very useful. - Besides this, the Bhahpur Canal - ·Branch for. which only 25:~1
p_(lr cent. water would ·he supplied, would not meet the demands oHhe-,_ aamindars. -Sir, the -Governmerit are .also giving their· full-attentforito :
- - - - . . . this problem and - I think it is better for us· to leave - : l P; ~ .- this matkr to the discretion 'of the Honourable the · ..
.Mem her for Revenue. · 'lJhe Councilthen adjourned for lunch till j P.;u.
RESOLUTION RE OOMPl,ETION AND OPENING OF THE SHAHPUB CANAL 947 BRANCH.
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tial,to.-hav~ w~. protected, canals,, -I . a.in,. ~w:aret fihat.i : ~etinte.,:_~~~ G0,v,ernmen t. tmaj •. fu, relieve;, the. zamµnlars ,of O Bllailwal an{! Sb_t)lrpur/f ~: and~. in. their;:a#empt..to.~o- 80,-en.tered.inta~ne~ti&tio~w.ith th&Maliksi,. :Ent.:-, these. negptitjations .. ;failoo.,, ro,aohiev,a ·a.llYr satisn1&toey l'asnltt., -~upi,nc,-ij;: w~s. proP.,OSed_ to rim a. can&L along with. the, inundation.-oanal ownoo 'by,, ill& c -
MaliRs-~_ Thtr,proposal was- carried'". onf · at a great, exp.ense. . The ~L. was. const'rtict'ed~ .· out before water could': be· made ·availalillf. t'o tli:~: $milidaf8-,._, tlf e:: Gree.t . Wkr coblln-etrced. _ Tlie Goverrunant, _- therefore,; oonl!rnot'. att~(J.~ - to:,$s tefotlft. &id: tfte·~:niatterhM'.to 15e- p}>stponed~ind.'e:6m~l!,· -Sfuc.e then. _ anotliel' :mctv-'e-: lias not' been made. in: this dirootioh for'rea·sons·'o[ :wlifoh 'we-: h~ve co~~~ .· Ikview on;lie=tact: that the g:i:eatest\tiumber of-necrmts· w~e slipplioo· by.tlie_'z_aitili\dars of' this·uaq/l,, Gov~en.t":ougp.t; .tolia.'ve--. t~li~ 1lie ea.tlfast opportfuiit:y·. to. do· jµstioe to. tliese zamin dam.:_ T tliilik tll:e OP.ellttlff of a cana.r would' lfa,v.e satisfied' them IDOI'El- tllim _ anythmg-eise. ~ But it 1s a nity, to ·note that' the rewards ot-a.11' those services nas gon~ to!.&= few Hig pers-oner in: the shape of ~ts of:: land's or titles. - Tlie. -poor. people. -wR-o shed tliefr blood nave f'/)ile uncared' foi;: This qµestfon of tlie. Slahpur; B~t1clf Clana-1 lfas Been agitating_ tne mind~ or · tJie public sµiee· 'a, v.ecy,: · 1oll1ti tiine~ -rt was brougp.t bafore this C.ounoif wm13tifua,·6ac1t--·aru1·. Gov.- ernment; wa.s pleased to appoint a con:u:aittee ,C(}nsistfug,<>f Sru:darRotu Smgf,t - @cf Sjr Rahim. Bux to submit its report on.,thiii vexed question ". However Ii~
. oflicer 6£ tiie canal'. department was . included' fu , tllis- coilllllil;tee. - - k.ild: -witliont tlia.t' ~lenient, the fui.diiigs of the committee could. not he of · gr.eat! value. - Tnetefote this report was IWt cQl'lsidered. Tlieli it _ was. re:pl'!3sented' that the: opening of.a pereruria.I canal'might result ·,in.°water-Joggj:rrg,, 13ut j;t. p~9ved to 1'.1-e. an' 'imaginary view as tne· expetta; apP.ointe<f '1;0 _ go)nto: the:'. q:ueal'fon~ reported; that tliere w~ no f~ ocw~iier~I~: ih tJljs pil.i;tfoW.~. ·
, <ia.se. ~ey further advised tha.t,ifthere wa.s-- imy fear,, it could, fie: avoided b.y" 1•umiii!g~ t)l~ ClID_a.l for· a few miles. But fus:pite. of all this,, the question of the· <>tfenfugof the· canal :&as been d.elayed. It appears tliat tlie Hon:ou:mole tlie- R'evenue Member does not like to incur the dis:plea_sure. of Malik$ (Ca,1ugfiter)., I woultl' fia ve done- the same thuw if· I .had beeD in ms J)9Sition '. ~ghter)_; -- - . - (iMi.J>rcesid~n~- at tms :irnage . S_@unded- --the; 9~ tG- indWAte- that. t~ time of the honoumble m~mher, ~ ovel'~) : <- ..
Sir, I am ~d';ooa.ting tb~<_-0ause gf the-R,ooi:-; ~ I r~ JOU to aUow me some more time {~ontinued in- Umu):. Si£ii I request tiw.t · it ii!' now bfgfi - tune tI:ta t some vi.a meilia snomd , be found oui; to solv.-i:3- this ·vexed· question: :r 'realisEi that Ma.Ii.Ks ·wolila.' ·sufier Joss, to a c-erram ._~ent.~n: the- Oll-em,ing of a perennial ciainML 1 wish' I ctmlral b-ve, o:i;tposed this resolution to satisfy the Maliks some. of whom-m,D:rJf Pe!$~1~~ since the . time we w:-ere stud.~ together in tlm - Cmefa~ Coll~e. But I cannot: help-it. lam here to advocate the ca.use of the poor people. -If Government - cannot see its way _to support tkcis tesolntion,, it would do best to remain- neutra;f a-t the til:ne of voting: . It wilf then,-bea;bi'e to as-certaiin the pu~lic opinion on the subject. _ Its hands will be strengthened' if m~jo.rifiy . 0Hlt1,e .ele€t@d-msembers v.0te f@:t it. l: i!eel StJre th~ ilae ~emment will - n@f ]~ m-O<l'.s' t:im:e· in or:mgjng; about-thm_reforin arid thus prove ttue to its ttirdlitjOllilS: . lit wil:l n0t l!Je om off plaice ~ men:tfoJ!i,t D'l· tms·emmecti® that
- , l:.nit~ _-Pt~inces, ~~emmalti ~as: • det~u~ il0'-S~ I,y: the poor ~iJlsf, if~p. TaM?ttar~ - T ht}ilet our tJ-0vemni-en'i d' n0€'-·lagieli-inda.ncUhffll'wm,a. place in the hea1ts of the peopleof Shahpur~ Bydoingthis favourit will b&-.
BRAN CB:. JUHl()IiQTlON- BE OOMPLE'l'ION, AND---OPENING..OF TBB., BRAH~UR OANAL 94~. ·:
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if onourable .·. Malik Firoz .J .. Noon (!r~11 : hop \, be allowed to state facts for t a iilfori:nation of the O!IS • It s
jllSt to relate e:vents against fac bef~re members ~ho e n, t a.wa. _ etual. conditions prevailir.\g_ in a a.rticula~ locality j : ·
~ of influencing the members H~ also said that . '
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Jt has ·also been advanced · that the samindars being dependent on the -0wµ_ers: for the irrigation of their lands are afraid of expressing their grievances and representing - their cause before the Government, But, Sir, my greatest argument against this unfounded insinuationis the honourable . .xp_ell!ber himself who himself gets water from these private canals. Will be tell us. what have the owners done to injure him or his. • . • . • . . . • • • . • .
' Sayad · Muhammad Hu!UUD : Stop his supply. of water. c
. · .. The Honourable Malilc• Firoz Khan.: N®n: : The .question._is whether the Slia.hpur Canalbe opened or riot. I also hold· a share in the: 'private canals. It is, no doubt, the wish of the people who pay one-fourth -share, that they should be supplied water from Governmeat canals. They 'will have greater freedom. But; Sir, is the water supply from Government -eaina.J.s being withheld from them because the owners of private canals are keeping t.he Government in the dark or ,bea.:1use·they are deceiving the high .and. capable Goveremmeat officers. Government have already announced: iiibeir readiness to open the branch provided there is .no danger of water· l<>ggw.g. But if there is a. danger of water-logging and t'!J.e proposal is being J>ushed only for the gooi of a few land owners and to the ruin of the zamin • dars iri general, the Government ought never agree to its opening. ., The Government'has already decided to. open the Ra.niwah .·. drainage SJhem~ and even money has. been sanctioned by the, Oouneil, in. this very session •
. If thescheme proves successful and the danger of water-log5ing is removed the Government no doubt will certainly proceed to corsi le. t1rn opering.
-of the Shahpnr Canal.· I, therefore, request the honourable me.nber .not -to make the Rouse a means of settling old scores. If you have some private <en.:tnities please keep them outside the sacred walls of· this House. . . .
Mr.J.B. G. Smith [Ohief Engineer, Public Works Department.(Irriga.tion Branoh) ]: Sir, the honourable mover opened _this resolution with a very
1eogthy and I must say somewhat bu norous · speech the first part.· of which · ::however as far as my care of the subjeJt is concerned, .is it-relevant. I
.-rather hoped thg.t some of my honourable friends in this House would dis pose •of those arguments: The member from .Shahpur did so before lunch
.and my honourable friend, 'the Minister -for- Loeal SeU-Gov~rnmant; has given;w:~t further answer was required, I am really concerned with the
,~eeond portion of his opening speech. Before _I deal in.detail with wlla.t the lionoura.ble mover has aa.id,.I should like to deal with the position a little •
. }{any histotjes have.been ,sketched of this scheme, ~he most authentic was .th.at sketched in this.House in June hst year. After _tl:ta Honourable
.;lfembe,rJofRevenue h!t!hketchei it, he stated that the. positi9n then was ibis : that Government has decided n,ot to proceed with the 81:ia.hpur Canal
-owners are honorary- magistrates and that they harass th~: ·zamindars by _ lri1>tituting fulse oa.ses. ~<18,inst them. Now, Sir, this a baseless charge and.
.ablof which no gentlem11n: may make against another. This also oa.str1 :a. blame on the Government. But happily my . friend Khan Bahsdur Muha.Illillad I!ay::at, Qureshi, who belongs to the same district has amply refuted the. charge. He has. given his· own frank and · independent opinion. .and denied iµiy such thing.' Re has told us that no such oases· are allowed to be instituted in the . courts ·of these honorary ma.gistr!)ites and that_ qoyer:µIDent has issued· orders th~ t all .sueh oases should be tried by the. staff
· -01 : the District Courts. · · · · · ·
BRAN OH. , llESOLUTION RE COMPtETlON AND OPENING OF THE .SHABPUR CAN.L 9ol
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.,.. proeemhvith the sohen:re im.riiadiatel~.I fay stres~··on hlie 'word,' "innne'd.iateiy~ That is-,vlfut:the·reso:lution wantoo. -. -
: Th~ i Ir~ush;·. ofcollise, has· a rlgnti to· aslt' .wh11.t we are doing'. a-bont tm's:0
w_lti'er!-Io~; .. Sljme- of niy h'.ortourli})le' ffiendi·have· a&eatly am\v6tetttlitf'\ question irl'paTt. · . Tlie 1Htmedmte' &eps w~.·a:re. titkmg are %··see' what' we-·~tt do 'lly drai®it this . a;(ea; and wEf.· arfi now' ednsiderirtg a' scheme' or ratltef• drastic closures" on· t_he Lower1 Jhelttm Canlil'. It will not'he popular : _aU' ren,tedi~s ar~·rf~t;·a;l~~s :pl~sant, but they lWNe·got. to·be tlLood~ .·. 0he·di~i,, culty' iif'tlia- .clra1rtage • problem that we · are· tackling is tnat tlipse private'"' ~undittion·ca'rttt~s-ro.n-alloyer .t~e place,. iri;tlfe 'draipa;ge; out of them; .a'*ds~:,. them, all' over the snop'; The Raniwa'li dtaina;g3_ ifit h'tis got to·l>~ eff~tive,; ha.ft.got. either to have those orossi.ng'1:l°remove'd"or· to ha.v.e· them oFa; ~~' sµj_liciElntly'1~· to jtevffnt' olisthictioii 9f'tlit3 n:aflttafdrairiage ·-watef' whioh must <fotre' ·doWii ehat.'drainage·J..ilie: Tliat'we ate lboking into at present;- to seewhi~lf-of'the'two meastti"es weoo;n adopt. ··
·•. Tlle SP?I,lSOr o{ this resolution, Sir, spoke a lot of the- iniquity in, t~&' tract. b.ut -0did' not· tell us why Government should · fuimediately open tJie··, Shii.hpur .. pJrfl.ooh. , The Jonoura-ble member for Shahpur seems to- have supplied the reason. He wants irrigation · provided· to the areas no'\V'·, ~rved by the Governreent irinndition canals. That is his concern. ~ow the point- I. wish to make is this that area· i13 at present sufficiently w~no.r:r s~nis to make it unnecessary for usto proceed, precipitately ~th this s~hetne: L will give- you figures. .In 1904, before th& LQwer Jhelnm Canal cams-,;· before it, was fully in· operations, the area irrigated' by . the Government"· inundAtion canals was 48,00(} acres. In 1913, after the . Lower Jlielumi Canal' had had its effect, the area was still 48,000 acres. The. average oftlie· last 1_o·year~~ 1-915·16 to 1924-25,is 01,000 acres, all assessed. Twill ask you to look at" it in. another _way. • The- last. av~rage figure I gave you is 58 per cent. of the t()tal culturable commanded area served by the inundation. canals, It is 8 per cent. more than what the original project promised. I now go oo.ck,a Httl~, for 80·yea~s. In.1897 the Shahpur Civif statio;1 was s.erio11;sly }hieatened. I am quoting from, a printed: document. ' Most of.the public and priva.te buildings have fallen,are falling, or are in d~~er" of coming down." - ;l1hat was the state .of affairs when severe restr1ci10n. of:imgation saved the station, In 1901, fo11r years later, it was agreed by
. tpe'.~nciaJ. Commissioner and the Cliief Engin~er that irrigation of areas with a higp. water table should> be restricted' as follows. Mark it well.
- t,'.Qb, soU water,- depth 10 to 20 feet . . 10 ~r cent.- of irrigation • . Sub·,sgfr watet, less than 10 foot • . Nothing. _ .
The Financial· Co:ri:lmissioner expressed the hope that GovertiD'.,ent wo1µd: see tha_t these limits were never allowed to be- exoeedl:l"d. 'so,that .wa.ter logging' would: n~ver come near us. Nevertheless we have not stuck to. it While- I p~sonally agree with the latter that if the depth of-water is.more than 1-0 feet tµere should be no irrigation in that .area, I consider the former,: that is the 10 per cent; restriction rather too severe., But the House wijl ll9tEi the speech of my honourable friend from Shahplir who particul-arly begged the House to have nothing to do with such a restriction of area af 25 par 90nt~ Nevertheless whatevei the dwisiqn on thit may be, 50 per cent in that area is certainly much too much, until we control. the water-logging-i situation. If we can cheek the rise, if we can lower it, if even we oan control
RESOLUTION RE COMPLETION AND OPENING OP THE SHAHPUR OANAL 955 BRANCH.'
Mr., President ;: Order, order. Sa:yad Muhammad Husain: Lam sorry, Sir. Chaudhri Umar Hayat: Sir, my lands are irrigated by the chaharami
- nola owned by my honourable friend Malik Sahib. I have never felt any inconvenience. I, therefore, beg to inform the House on behalf of a large number of zamindars oi the · lla_qa N asheb that the opening of the Shahpur Canal will entail great hardship on the people. Even now the water level is only 5-6 feet deep and there is great water-logging on Lower Jhelum Canal and if inspite of the above, the Government wants to open the canal, it should be prepared to grant compensation to three-fourths of the ilaqa by way of land and house property which will be destroyed by the opening of the canal, With these words I oppose the resolution.
Dr~ SlwkhMi•hammad Alam lWest Punjab Towns (Muhammadans); Rural] (Urdu): Sir, before I proceed to answer the arguments advanced by my honourable friends the Minister for Local Self-Government and the 9hief Engineer, I would request your permission to say a few words in reply to what the honourable member for Amritsar had to say. I wish 'he had taken the House into his confidence and given us. the names of the gentlemers who gave him the benefit of their· advice. - The House could have been. in a better position to believe in and appreciate his views. "I, however, being without any information on the point, am inclined to believe that those gentlemen w,ere no friends of the zamindars and they 'only represented one side of the shield. The same honourable gentlemen suggested that if there is any point of conflict between the - people of the District, a
·- Committee may be appointed to inquire into those affairs and that another may also be appointed to investigate into the hardships and the grievances. of the people against: the Tiwana clan. W..ell, Sir, if he wants 'to have an inquiry of the sort suggest eel let him have the same, but Ido not want them I only want the canal to b_e opened. This is jus~ like the proverb :
~, d,I )~ ~- Ubl),.::. 'c:) j If thou demandest gold, it is feared that cannot be given to you. It was. also said that in the Honourable Revenue Member's_ opinion the opening ofthe canal was injurious to the-interest of the province as a whole. But,_ Sir,~my submission is that I have never said it was so. I only demanded it for the-benefit of the district. · I~ is very possible it is detrimental to the interests of the owners' of the private canals.
We are al.io told )hat this demand is not real and general. The reason for such a view is tliat the question has never been raised inthe District Board;
- Sir, I thank Hod that the matter was brought in" the Council even during the last year.;My honourable friend the Minister for Local Self-Govern ment whoin his speech represented the views both of the Government and 'the owners of the privat~ canals, threatened me with dire consequences if I had the audacity of expressing my views outside the House. I do not know what sort of punishment awaits me, whether it is personal or legal, whether- I wouldbe beheaded or deal~ with according to law._ Anyhow if sueh threats can be held out-to a member of this honourable House, how can a poor member of i;h~ District Board dare to rush where angels fear to. tread. · Sir,-:r have al.ready divided the lands into two classes (i) lands irrigated by inundation canals and (ii) lands irrigated by private canals-
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)~.efl;U6J!C0S,Jet him.also-repeat this word outsid~. tbe );[qt:tie)t~d he wiJl}teejf :3 .l'/·M .: .• _ x,c~n;~~so )nake him danc~ a devils . dance. Sµ;,· :~e
.. . . co:tnpla,iµ of 0the ty,railples before . t]le Hq:p.o:nrab.le
.. E'.?u~. we stat.e t.he truth and we makeno.e:l{{l,gge1;atiQnjn voaali#ng the '. ~1eyances of th,e people and we arecalled .shiu;p,tongued, Ioul moµtlle4, unmoderate, impolite persons, but they . threaten us and are .g1,1ilty .
-9f all. these. offences . even ten times .. more V.i_olently_ and no notice iij ·~ taken -of nhem. ·wellhas,the poet saitl :- - . .
,.u~-~ Lt;,.4): f~~Q),i:J d-Jl.~ U .4> . • L . j · ... _( :·-,,~..:
. : . ' .l.!ft:'<' ~~-' 1:,'~c4-r ~'....,......, u, ,Sir, yon: rwill bethe judge if .•I am .sharp:i'ongu:ed · ( I,,) 1:.1-1;,,3 )in the ntterancerof .ourgsievances or Ire is himself open to that. charge in c~ng a · .member otthis'House names. Lmaytellhim.whatrthe word.means .... -.~;;.
_the·Honoura~Je 'Malik Fir.ozJthan, 1Noo~: Sir, I nevermeant to insult him. If he has felt it _in,that way, I -withdraw the words, 'l only meant by them a little-exaggeration. . .. , . · . · " . rDr. Shailch Muhm:mad.Al,m: Thank you, Sir, .thank you for_{t •
.A-gen~le_m'ltn should _not accuse another of such .ungentlemartly_ tl:µ~s. Then, Sir, the .House was told that_ Lpossess no .knowledge of agricultui;!l,l con Iitions. . But, Sir, the Honourable Minister did not understaii,d me
.quite well, .Iba.ve . .p.o.t blamed the owners directly for all that.is hll.P,p~ajhg. ~ :ijQ._t unfortqnat.flly .he has still less, knowledge of, the doings _of his_a.gen'.ts _:than .he says I possess -pf l:!>gricttltute. I_ .never said tliatJhe o~ners,g(} In · .. person .to heaps-of .corn .. for _the _distributioµ ~hereof, oi; they thep1fH~lv~
~institute:false eases. .Great men and big employers, like the Governnie.p.ts ~ .are ruinedby the deeds of .their employeee, They. are ,the cases c5f:th_53jr
· disgrace and it is a pity th81t they neither possess, the abHity, the time ~9r ;the toleration to listen to and enquire .into 'the.grievances of 'the people against such agents." The Colonel nor the Honourable Minister fa
: :gnifty.of: ever,inqrifringJ1,bmit:tbe.:eonvenifen<;~. oJi:the; tPe,qp}§. ·. ·, \M.:y complaint 11is a-ga.instt-he .agents,woo bringabmit,theim.is®.Y:-~n,1Hher~ oN~e-:poo.ple itS
·)weltasfHreit, employera. 'But :wheriev(;)r;a.emnpfainUs: m~d.fr-ag~i®t · t:h.®l ~nditlrlqµ:y-. .is" urged ;a,gains.trtheirrdeeds, ::th:e~·~Sir, .: th.e.,.-~e:t;tir.lemeP._ :~t ;i!angfy ~ ·:, · -- - ·: ·, · _ -. · · - - · .: - . , · __ ~ •.. . ···;'(am·t6ld•tbii,f \fe:ajlist' consider ,the:~4uestion -0oolhe~tiedl;r~ · ,vJia*7e
::':g~beried. 'W'ilil;1 aU :palii@nce ·· to-the spee~h, of•tJ?_e_,ChieflEngineer, ,an'd 1'!)am ·_ ,)itf:ia:qfrn.U' fo~ ~thli. ihlo_rnia.tfon:' ·~e :ha~ ·pr<>.vitl~d. ~ -with ·about<the hist:ory ' -~·of the eariais; 'BU:Hn.y:co.fi!.pla~t is neither :againsfrthe C:\iief E:figir¥ler,:no r -:-~ait1st;jn:tfHoriQuiiiBle- Mi~te~,: nor ~vet1:~g~~st ·, an,y. •member.; 9f ·.,tlus -~~ouse. -J·onJyTeque.st-the~Gov~nm~t tg~t: if·shotild-~~et~ ,the tes_cue,of · ?•thes~;·poor., u,iibtiirierided starving .agric~t~sts,_whoin>tlie_time :of:'!tovern ,:.ment'-S:need··aia·.:so ready an.tl·will·ever1.be,r,eadyto ·soori'fiee: ,their , deili'@St
ones. I only begged for. a little favour for these pitiable unfortunate: people · · . .;that,they:m,a.y get'.a; f~w drops. of.water~ l\have;p~n}old ~t~t more area.
.i~ now commanded than was in the years,,1~04:'()5;"19134·4or·l924-25 and ·3that ··,the ri.iwommat.1.deu::areas ·BirEi ·dai:ly.:d,eer-EiAsing. ·)r nev~r do.n_bt:ed , it . . lffidt my ·f~qu~t ·was ·tha.t;:Oanal•'\.Vatet<i'f,~ssible.-should _~giv.efi:' .to rt~QSe :~f~lnafnir:ig~5·or'47;:pei" ._cen~. 'af1th~p~op\ew.ho,~t~·vef~r.the mGk:?f, it., ·we. ; .. :are- ti,1U that urll-ass, they,cafu1Jlttisn~ tthat· operung of •:the ·.·ean~ will, not J be
BRANCH.
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h "kh Muhammad Alam.) l i i in other ways, it will not be opened. But, Sit·, th ·n,
-. atisf ou and how. 1hey say it is n t possible to op:etj be e · edi t ly. I am afraid they have isunderstood me. ! l nly • tha hahpur Canal Branch be eomplet d arid opened wi~hou any
- elay 1' - I meant by " further delay ' that- all possible ~e ay s voi e ......•.... -. . . . . . . I i .
' ' , Honourable Mian Sir FazJ..i Husai.-: Very nj'c~. As i ut a y further delay "does not mean i ediately.
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Shaikh Muhammad Alam: s I', l tneant withotjt ltn~ unn ela , nd if the Government bas misun erstbotl me, I amJp~e4·ared1
t cl r hat I shall besatisfied if the can is o~ei:ted wit hoult an nnn ela . The evil, they admit is not ir emediahle. 'lhE;f kn wit
i d. But the time they have ta en iis unconscicnably GIJg to es made during this period is hi hly ~nsuffcirnt andi u sati wa t _ hat much quicker measures sbou d b~ taken in vi1:* ~f - be lo eop e, We are advised to wait and atch patiently tl1e!1e ults
'. V;e~ i atio7:1 .. But, Sir, what, that res lt Wfll :te the Go~-E-~Il ·mt ~ot position to s1;1,y. 1bey cannot ay ";he1her at thf en of s ilnqui · s they will be in a. position to co e tola favourableidsei ion
ise. he position of the Govemmen is loot settled. J 'I!h ar -- n t e ence. 1hey lil!,ve no definite co rse pf action to ~ufs e. · ait a iently. If this is so, the best co rse, for the Gover me t as
dvi e by my honourable friend the M mber for Montgc tr is t eut al and see what way the House dee des this question . L, [ at is igbt w y for the Government. '.IhE-y ill ere that the .,t:1~u e de ·dui f i: hep. 0 zamindars .and this decision" il influsnce the doi~g~ C the ~
. rientl If they have no settled course of aetion, let thf;m:H ai ,'. · nd e the opinion of the House: Wi h t~Hf Iew words jI cw e-
> esll ti , :;~:~:~;:ra:;n::er; on·iJ~t::ou;1(L u: M :-
with some hesitation that I pr ce~ to address thi C before it~ I had the privilege of addi'-essing the Ia~t C in Simla in June 1926 at eonsi erable length on tjbi~ ery
- pee_c h_ _ I had gnr. •. en a historiea outline of the c~s~ · ieh, .. to and ~dersto~ _by the hon urable members to*1 at a _
_;_ _ a.ye_ p c_e_ d them 17:1 ~: position to ~d sta.n;d t. h. e problem 1· t at. all pon to decide;. I had achieve some success a~ th
bject was broached last March · Lahore and at tmeit" e I wa lll"dly called upon to meet a spe h "Which, howeve{, elo en
ave e , contained very little indeed r Jatirtg to the subject it elf. e o oura.ble member opposite (Dr. Sh~ikh Muhampiad Al
· resolution which with the -P issfon of the Cotµi~il wo re:- : · I ! -
,'! This Council recommends to the Gover nt that Shahpur Ca.nail ~~ _ ch be _ _ _ and opened wUh011t any further d ay." : i ! i . - , s· , ave devoted myself to this pro Iem I now for_ n:Jariy ts
ver si ee I took up office in January 1 6, ~thin a month,i:>r two, ,,· bis - r blem calling for a solution an certain conte~p~~t
th r approval or disapproval._ Thi morning I felt sur~ t at I . I · ..
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.--RFlSOLU'.rIO_N .RE, O<Jm>u'ErioN A:SD · OPENlNG -mr THE SlliHPUR 95{) OANAL BRANCH, .
Honourabl.e- Council. would be called upon ', to decide would. be .wheth~r 'the Shahpur Cane.I Branch should be: opened without any frifther 1iefo.y or rtOC ~ or wheth:er the decision on t_h~ difficult question· should be: postpon:ed for· a •
·whilK On the other hand, itjs with some regret:thatThaveto say, the,filaec <>f the CoimciJ_-h~s been te.ke4 up not in g~ing)nto -the merits. of the case
. itself, but in . indulging in mor9:or te~s a_ttacks which harsh critics rll.ight des- cribe as acrimonious; in geri.erirl vague. allegations which a strlct oritfo :ittigfit:
, tiesciil>e: as n,ot likely: to- eiilfan.ce_'tlie reputation .of the,Hotlse ~ :which· they. ate tj'la.de( Sit, it iis _·easy';eb.oug~ to say "-we MpreBen.t the. poo'"ple \. - ·liut then_ '"'we: ·,~n:a: t!i,e ::• people' '. teruly convey 'l'erf little ·. &ignm.canc0" :fu. :a.· ,bO<iy
- i5f fu~n who:~r'e_.1:(ent ¢1:,approochihg the· problems that .eome: ~ore· th.em' ~ _a,~spmf of piactical-sffitesti>Mship. Now, Sir,· it· is :said.tliat there _is
·a gr~t - deal of z~lum going- on. ,It appears fr-oini wha't : the hononrab:le - mover Ms said t~t ciiminal, civil and revenue a.aminult:ratioiLoi :the· ·S,nahpur district .is till :wrong, ,A_s: a' ·matter ·of fact if even a pa.tti of wht- is " stated.
c Mfore· us· by ;the· nonoumble movei' were .true it would appear that-thee-Ilia·· ·.tf.fot isnot.,'\ritnm the~P'ilJ?.jtiltt&all, that: thete a--re:no.conrts;_that JheBritish : ~mistttltion is not functioning there; and that -there is _no Deputy Corn-
. - missioner who is responsible .. to :thli Pu:n~b-Govern.ment in these af{wirs~ -As - l have 'said before:, such vague aliega.tfons-do',n0: credit w·the-·0H(ju~; -bring
llO strength tcrthe motion WfilCh is before' th{ lfoqsei a.nd '&S. a matter of. f~ct :they teally 'do mote: harm- 'both .to the cause ·of the 1'0"$0lutiori and to t~e
· pies t~e of, the -CotiJJ.cil. than.- good~ '.· Sir, we mu:st · remember . that wb1irt we - are. dealing with a problem it ia oiir duty in' the public interest that we: 'should
. - address ourselves to the '.problenf":ind try to keep a;way from either atta~ks '. oil .individuals. oi-at.w.,cks on. classes of individuals, however much: we mll,y ·h~t~ and dt:itest them ordiffer ftorit them .. It sgems to . .me: tliat not only .-the ,general a,d:miriistration . of: the district has beerr· impugned," but it is alleged
.: that a. reign ofterror' is 'prevailing there, a.nd tl:ra.t· the .: M?oliks and .their - a.gents have recourse :to nitiniidation, brow-beating,' and things of that sort, and that there~is not a:·single- public spirited· IDJm- to stand up ~-gainst tb'eS!3
.. tyrrultsa_nd· Jake a. case- to c-ivil ~courts, ·and ifthe 'civil.cQtirts ,~re hand-in <; '.,.glove~ with.them- ata.11 even-tfihring,it up- to. higher'.c(imfus;,._Tc~nnot,b~lieve <jba.l\th~ district courts are so:oo:tfu.pt as:n:ot,:,to:listen to the, grievanees
- .of the poor.. To- paint the: district administration. .in such colours .and to ca,ll it exercise of privilege of free speech in the-legislature is not rea.]J.y be
'. fitting the dignity-of practical m.en who ate· in ·the -Council Chamber trying .:,to&rtiveat a decision on a lil<>st":momen'tous questiqn. not ~ly of --th~·distriot;'
. -: -hut_ofthe _whole provmce. I rep ea.h Sir' the questidniSa of provincial importance, inasmuch as ii. this ,Govem:tri@t decide. -lo ,introduce -another ~nal iuto·that jerritory, _with·· wat~r-logging ff.wµi.g _· it, surely it_ is _ the.r~py.jeop.ar4ising the revenue~.·. of the-whole province which:will be. tequir(:)(.} :toJace the .situ-
· ation, - It. is, therefore; not a .distriot · problem, but ~ _pr~vincial problem . . - .• _--·Tp.is ,problem is ·oi_~ll<ih:a technical natri.i6that it_req)1it:es;a.~tl?.e· experience
· · - ut.great engineers, :of great experts in_;,w~ter,lo-&,oingJind ·gr~t ezj>e:rts in . i:ev\fu,ue matters to tackle- it a.ud arrive a.ta decliiio:t:J·~· IdSir) am: fr~e to tl()D._ : fess .that I doubt my o~ ·competence/without~ the lielp of tli~- expro;ti,.,; ,to .·artjve at a: decision which. -woi;ila:satisfyzµe:_;:md .Ii);y :consojen;ce. ~.r mi.ye ·said
.· more flllill _Once that. it if, riJ.y one a.mbition/(iyeil: Wh~n. ·· t am it( ~h~fge 6£ the reserved departments, t(> act in such a:-way as_µi,ay: m~rtpe, wishes of- this House, . But when l_bave to de.al witli a subject whiclneqtutes exp'ert 't1cl-
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i PUNJAB tEGISL.A.TI E ootrson..
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RESOLUTION re PlNO-OUBAG.EMEN~ OF PUNJABI AND HINDI VERNAOULABB . . . . . --- .·. -_iN PRIMARY 'soa:OOLS. ·_
· ... ,- _ P~dit Nanllk-Chand [ Hoshiarpur (Non-Muhamamda.n) Rural] : Sir, 'Tbeg to Inove :- . ·.• _ .'. - ·• - · . _
'' This Council . recommends _ that a. sum of rupees _ ten .~ be provided in the next yea.r's budget for the encouragement· of Punjabi and Hindi vernaculars
· in the primary schools." . -
I may. submit in the very beginning the importance of this resolution:· S:ir, the other day, the Honourable the Finance Me:nibe:r told us that there· has been a remission in the provincial contribution a~d that is probably the last remission. Therefore there is· a certain amount ot funds availahl& out of which a portion can be devoted to the. 'el!,Ciourageme~i. of the·. I>nnja.bi and ~di vem11,~Jllars in the primary sehools.. There ifn• second ·gt()up.d why -;
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· R'.ll!SOLUTION R/il COMPLETION AND OPENING OF TB]} SIIAHPUR 961 CANAL BBANCH.
_ The resolu tion concerning the opening of Shahpnr branch being a technical proposition involves two points, firstly whether the opening of· the · _Sha~ pur canal from the engineering point of view is sound or not ? and secondly,_ whether, from the economic or revenue point of view, it is in the interests of the prcvinee.that this venture h undertaken., These are the two · ques- - tions which determine whether the eanal extension scheme should be proeseden with or not? Why should this question, Sir, be· mixed up with other questions, all, as I said before, irrelevant to the question, all mor~ or lass of a personal nature? (Hear, hw:r). NQw, Bir, it is said by the ,Mnour~
. able mover that waterlogging is. but .a pretext used to refuse ~hif opening ol _ , , the. canal. , He believes, the opening of the canal is in the fotl;lr~sts of the '. .·
people and in. the interests of the Government. _ Does-it not strik9. him that _ his proposition put in a.gifferent way o~ri:ies to tbis~Shabpur ~l'.BACh can be- - opened to the benefit of tho people and to the benefit of the Govel'JllD.ent and yet Government . is · not · opening it for reasons which he' considers are· condemnable and which reasons, I entirely agree with him, would be condemn- c
able if th_ey ~ere what-he has-insinuated them to be Government's partiality· · for the interests of the owners of private canals. Briefly put, wbat this House has to decide is. this. Is thE? Government dealing with this problem in the way, the honourable mover insinuated that it is refusing to open Shahpur branch" · both to the loss otthe Government and to the loss of the people in order to help a class of monopolists who are, aocorcing to the honourable mover, . - ., favourites ·of Government ? .· I am trying to place the. problem in all its ' nakedness, beautiful or otherwise as that nakedness ma.y appear. For myself, · Lloave the verdict in the hands of the honourable members of this House, whether they. think that I, as the b onourable mover by suggestion would have us believe, out of my regard for the private interests of these influential
• persons am so moved as to .refuse to open this branch to the prejudice of · Governnien_t interests as well as the interests of the poor public who would· ·· benefit by the opening -0f this canal ? 1 would not labour the point ; l lea.ve it at .that, (Applause). ·
Mr .. President : . The- resolution proposed runs- . "This Council recommenda to the Government ~t Sha.hpur Canal Brsnehbe oo,m.
pleted and 'opened without any farther delay." The question is that that resolution be adopted. (The motion was lost.) ·· · -
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'192 . · -~ 'PUNJAB- LEGIBLATI E' cbtr~ctL. c I i I J I
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-RESOLUTION ·uE ENOOUBAGJ!IItUllN,T OF; i;-u~-~13t-A.~JVH~:*DI VEBNAOULARS, 96S:1 - IN:PitIMAR'Y SCH,.>OLB. . . .
; Then, Sir, "there is anoth.e:r objection whfob: ~n),e ;=btotiglif forward against those who would exclude-·Purijabi as =the medium of~struction_in the primary schools, Now ji you: ;wat1t -to- develop-·thif',PutifabiTanguage which is -the language -of :the people; it is necessary that- J?~jabi should receive more encourageµ:ient·at -t.he hands of the· Sta~e -_tlfa1;1: ·it has in the
_ pa.st. Now, Sir, it isvery unfortunate that in this. province the question of , languages • and a vernacular :is also - made a religious: - .question. _ Th:i
:. -Muh8Jillitadan.s insist· upon . Urdu as: '. their · langu,ageY , ~he. ,13:indu~ . frISist oil Hindi as their.language and the Sikhs have-made ~j{lrbj ·as,Weir<lallglW,ge/
. I iibjiik we- shoulddiscuss ':.this question. purely Jrom:-t-h~ ~dt!-cational-point' .: of':view:and we should not, r submit; 'Ullpprt ·int_o, --this-~ inatte_re:·religious-,
co:p.sideratiom •. which .. are -. genera.Uy . - importeq ., in.:. alm"<l,st'.; all . dj~~l1,S~W;liS;, ; 'r,h.e }J:uhammadans living' in different parts- of India.'. <1.q.,n:ot'i;.peak, -Ur<llt ; i
_ :·, .ilh,e Hjndus llving in different -parts of Iridi~ -d-0 -Ut>t'~ea~;l:Iin,di ~~d ~-olnd. ; • 'jng ·5 pr (>. districti, in which, the)anguage: of the people is- ]lin(}i, · -the wtiolec:
-- of the J:>imja.b speaks the Punjabi language aind,-therefo1;0j -1 su}}n;iit iihitt ~ there ~re various Muhammadan writeys and~MuhaJ1~m~dan,,~eakEll's, who,
·. -womd. :a~eept the Punja.ht as )he 0medhgn of_ iPffetfU~_ion: iiljhe: Pl'.imary ': . · ~cho~ls~ l submit that in a. question ef ~his 0l{ind-_w{l3(fb ~:oncerna the wel- , ·fa:re of the ·infants, the welfar.e of boys itnd'. girl~,, - Gf · ·tend,E~i: a,ge,- it i.·L n~iy that they· should be taught· such- difficu.lt su})-j:eots: :as ma-thematws; , geogra,phy·· and history;'iu;theiiown langu.ag~.: •. -.,I-m11y.1>erhaps itnticiP11te one •. argument which might .be brought forw1nd:by-s~0-,people-thai ptun1'ey'; education has. now been made over to district beaeds and- -Govermnent hasr ~othing to do with primary education. 'l'o0this rny_:reply js tba,i; I - h.~ve ·
,_ gpt :.e:,t.petjence0Hh9 various. district- boards, -wbere the i:nspectors,·appomted byJ4e Educational Department , are alw{.t-ys -t-rying· ,tbefr .: best · to place. difftCJulties in the way ofthose who Will not 'lCCtll}1; t1-rd-u 111 the : medium-of uisti;m,~tion in their primary schools. _ _ - - ~ : -- .: :·_--, - _ . _
· - I can give you names if it were neeessaey -to :s-how -that it> is- :lreing done. in, various places. It is necessary that--tbe .Gov~:rfm~Iit--shduld- declare-as - its policy that so far as Government is· concemed itris-Jn- fav·o'ru'.":of encour-'
· - agi~g f;ilnj~bi in places where I>u11j~bijfl,}be $:p~i ia.'~age of :the people> ~q Hindi where:Hindi is .the;spo:l,{e~:lan,guag~ (;)nhEA-v.eopl~k- Ji that. is done
· at4 ilizj~ti:uctions are 'issued- i-c>-the various peopl1fwho have got fo docwitk . ., '-tM i;os:Rectfon ohc}iools; -1 t~1r they-wpuld n9't' be placing t pese' difficulties
· ili, t.~ way of peopleas·tliey do at the prefien:t. t-iµi~ - _-'.Pbflit'-is- my main ground why) insist0tha.t Pun,ja,bi •wheie)~11,nj_abi is th~ spok-epJl},hg)lage 'oU:he people' shl.)aj4 be acCJepted :as the: n;tediJin:(ofin~tru~tion fo:t:b~·schools and w_lfei;e Hip.di-is. the, spokenJanguage,;Jiiridi should ,};>~ Illact,,fthe:medium of-inst~c~
-· tior;i t11JJies.~ schools and 1 hope and_f~ust tha#in:tlris -m,a~tei: at 1eaakwewill - , ' - not be led !iw'ii.y by those false_ communal consit:l~attibu$· :which prevajJ; but . 'we will l()O#'. upon t:tiia question ·purelyfr-01n H1e edu.eational0pQint_ nf vi~w.
With these _words, Sir, l ~om.mend __ my .resolution ror- tht:t acceptance ·of i;he -House. _' · -_~:., - - - - - · -,- - .- · · - - ,
-- _ )41\ Px~ident::. The rooolJtion,pr_Ol)osed:}u~Si:-> ;~_-_'._ . · .. · - . " Tljis_ Council reoomniend!i that- ~ -SUJlt of J:llP?Oa ten miilia ,lia~p:ravided-: iil ,the .
. next ye~'s l?u<l~et for the en,oou-ragel)lent. of !'unjal;,j_,~!} IJ:in4i . -Y:~M~M'.3 · . in th~ primary schools;" · - - - · - - · · · ·· - - · · ·
_ , 'l'.he qu~stion is that~that resol.ution lre ~d.0pt~d. - :_ ;: - ; - (The frl-Otio;n waS.lQst.) - - - - - ... : -,
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!in'IIAI' Ujjal:Singh (Sikh, Urban) ' This Council reqommends to the Gove
PUNJAB· LEGIBLAT VE (lOTJNOIL.
ELECTION. OF DEPUTY-PRESIDENT.- :. . . .· Mr. President: The Council will now proceed to the election of
Deputy President. The following nominations were received.: . . :;:_. ,_(1) ~i Ba~dur Pandit··.• Proposed by Lafa_Mohari Lal. _
.... ·. Dijula.t Rain, Kalia: . . . Seconded by S. :S. Sardar Fa.teh Singh; - • <- ' (2) Sardar Buta Singh • , . · Proposed by Raizada, Bans Raj.
Seconded. by Sardar Narain Singh. 'Proposed by S. Hira Singh. . Seconded by S. Parta.p Singh. Proposed by Chaudhri Afzal Haq. Seconded by Dr. Shaikh _M1Ihamma,d .A.lam. Proposed by R. 8. Cha.udhri Chhotu Ram. Seconded by S. &rba.lmsh Singh.
. 1 - - • RESOLUrtON RE OO~PULSOBY PHYSIOAL 'PlU.INJ?qC1 m SOIIOOLB 966
:· AND COLLEGES,
against by a system of physical training. Out of these deiecti, · about, ii to 2 .per cent. were sufl'ering from organical diseases and 'about 5 per cent. from diseases of the lungs and about 5 per cent. from spinal curvature and ·about .80 per _oe~t; of · defective vision and about 25 per cent. suffering from malnutrition and 80 per cent. from enlarged tonsils and over 50 per . cent. having· defective teeth. If this is tlie "state of affairs in a country which has set itself ·v'eiy seriously to the. grappling of this problem, I do not . know what appalling figures would be' revealed.in our own province if a regular "medical' examination of the. students were fo be.made. In this.province, no.donbtwe can boast of liavirig-introduced in our schools physical instruction,':' ·play for .all ' movement, scout move ment and out:door games, mass,clrill; but this does not meet our require ments. The majority of students still remain book-worms and take absolutely no-part in games, and most of the money and time that is-reserved f-or games is available for teams that represent · schools and colleges in tournaments. This half-hearted ~ange~nt does not provide a remedy to cope with the evil. In other ·countries reforms on . education have been introduced lately, wit:h the aim of devel~pnie~( bf the social side ·. of children through the · training of their physical and mental capacities, In Austria, seoondary schools: were inaugurated in 1919 in which one-third ofJhe pupils' time devoted to 'manual _activities and physical exercises. In these schools emphasis is given to . a, thorough training in mother tongne also. In. Holland a delegation which consisted among it~ members the Principal of the Training· College was sent to· 'England to study the reforms introduced there. The delegation· reported that the future development of education must be sought in loosening of the class teaching system and in increasing attention being given to sports as an educational factor. .Reforms were introduced in schools and in curricula among the compulsory subjects, physical. training was included. · In Italy~ "by a Royal decree of 1928, Italian education was entirely reorganised on the following
. lines, first to provide demonstration and diadective elasticity, development of continuation schools, stricter enforcement of the
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lh. President : Order, order. Further discussion on this reso- lution will be resumed to-morrow.. ·
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·-/Mr. Preaidel:lt :. ·i~·~· to amiounoe to the Co•oit.tha.t only omf ~clida~, namely Saidar Harbakhsh Singh, has been n,oiajnated .'by Sardar
-: ijuta Singh and seeond.ed. by Ohaudhri Afzal Haqfor .the va<sanoy lllthe Public A.ooounts :[email protected]& qaused .. by· the r_esignation of _Sardin- &jnta Birlgh. of his mexobarjb.ip ·ofjhe_OoW10il. I theref~re deo~ Sardar itfur.ba~h Singh
,',~~Nfvib~~°h~~~~\~r-~atoEB' · · /\•. _·•. . .. Mr. President : · Unde-r. St&nding Order 57 (2)~ tlie · select oomnnttee
to amend the standing -0rders: is: to •o<>nsist of the Presiifont who shall be the ·Chahman, and the Deputy_President-and seven other membem to be eleoted · by. the Oouneil by meanit of the single tnwJerab~ :vot& ~OJ:Qinations of· · .q
· the following oandidates f9r fjfootion to the .seleot. oOIIiIOitte.c;t have been received.:,....;.. . - . . ~<:.•yi:,'):;\/~ .. '~'.
_-:<.;----·_, -., .• ·.• ·.·i ._ .. .>. :,_~ ,.:. -.": . ]._:_":_.:' !
-- -·-:·:~---:~-c;f.,·(i~~i-~st .:~ ·' I ,,_.-:.--··_:'~c,'.~_;,:·_-'_f::__r·: :·.: .. :~t~+ ..
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ELECTION TO PtJBLIO ACCOUNTS OOMMIT'JIEE.
. .. ;fd~lare Sardar Habib -un~:dw:r eleoted. Under. ~~on 72-0 of the (Jovemi:nent of India A.ct the name of the· Deputy· Ptdei4,ent ~lLbe · submit .. /led to.Bia Exoellenoy the Govemor for approval. . - .. · ... , :S ·.. ·.-.
. . . . .·- - -:-~~· ··- . . .,·. . ., .
967 · .· .. . . B~TION 011' Dl!lPU'rY PBlilSIDlilNT. . "·
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D, ~UJRAT,
:' Will the
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- PUNJAB LEGISLATIV
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are as.follows ·:~ . ·:~ . -_- - . -: . <_.-. . :_,::~ . . "e . -_:> . -. .;:.··. -· <; _.· --~-- . .t:' : -,- ··=
... - _ Mr. -- Vi.dya S(l1Jar~a·distinguished M. Sc; of th<t Punjall-University @d Ph .. D. {Erigla#~. -w!Ls acting for about three· ye.ar,a: µ;s.fiill:Professor ,Of
00hemistry in,Fo,r:man q)ristian College -teaabing up to~the highest :classes ;;:-::; m M. Sc. in,tbe coll~ejtnd the University·andgettiug· aJ1igher pay in thi __ ~oollegetban given#itlle~njab EducatiorialSorvice_; __ - . - - - - ::."'.;, _ </:··
:\?-"\;::,_- __ -Mr._Muhamr@,dBh!t,r~f-·, aseoond class· B.:A. (Punjab); RA;.-(Can;iliriag~) __ · :{·/-• •. : ;>':( -with Srd clasij in Paxt l.of
0Eeonon1ic·s - Tripo_s;:and-_second class hi- ·Pai:-t:·U:t>f .\:·'t:" : ;~_,;_ - ___ ._, .': .·. ·fiistorfoaJ _Tt'.ipos';' just refuiP:ied from Cambridge an{no_teacliing"e~peri!3n<i)J· , __ ; <; )•<-:·",,
>L' ""'./'~:. to his•c:redit~: --Thia_sec.drid: ~andidate was"not-recQmmen,<ledfor i:tny"'_ad:VaA~ :{'.D:1-:::
):'.·;. -----=-••--:)::-(t;:1~;!t~6ra~~;:1~Tr!ie¥ti::"{be:::tctJ1~:1~~t1;~~·-,~;r-r!r ·,;:":, .. - z:- : -._ ~"- :: ;.:::-_(4)"Apart fxom: aJlpointmenti refer~ed. -to· above.to ~hioh allusion~~as -: t;~j;;:.>
. -~ -__ made in ~he :Statements in the press me~tion.ed in tfo ·questi.Jin by the hono_ur• - ':>. · : - -·- . · '--_ > -,able member, there have he,ei!.:some ._ other, appointmi:lnts ·made'in~the l>Ji~Jab c}~,- -Ednootfonal:S~rvicetece.ntly; &ind the fi.J.11_ statemsn] is_giyen hel_ow ! = · «: ,~- ·
,,-,-L~bi;(~ .: L ,:Mr.,Vidya,Ragar' M'.Sc;"c'PunjahJ,,-PhJ)<:(liond:on),:~tlrteoohiM ) ">> - __ · :~xperience irt.:the'.o~!ege and U:nivers-ity classes up to th'.e M::'Sc\_ 'stTunija~4 -
";\a;1;~t:tz::;:;;atrBa~ Bahl~M:A. .in. ihgfi~h . (P~jab) '.' fii~t: ~1:~, , with :teachiiig:-exparience of .over-7 years, inAne'-0£ the biggest colleges 11p -
-to,the,B. A; and .. Honours standard. ' .. ·-. ·. -, . -. - ... -·- . - - .
· 3, Dr. Gid.shan Rq,i OMp'Ta-M.A. (Punjab), Ph.D. (Lonaon)·already .officiating in Government College, La-hare-, for one year in Punjab Educational Setmc~ and . teaching History' and. Engli~h. to the senior classes. . ·. .
. -·:::,:_ \ ::. lAitaDaulittRam,}3batiil'_: Pistingujshed_w.. ZoofogyM;,-Sc~ f~Ul'.l.~b}, · -- /-. , __ •• :Ph.·D" ;(franJbringe) with_- teaching experience of. abhut_ one·y~ar: aud~Jth:~~cly ··, ,;~-- .;
. -·.-:=:::-,.,:.·,..:-··
- · _- ~ : -Miobigan Univer~_i~y--\Dniteij .f,ta,tes oJ AmezjgacJ, -lecturing :·exper~enoe - in · .. · ... , ·--· -· ~/:; _- -
- . "'.· ·plued -m.the htetmedi.ate_ tlC>lleg(3 ·at !Josbiarpui.-. '.:/ :·-- . ·: -s. . . .· . . . . ..· . .- ~·, •. -- . . . : - --_ .- - . . . ; .· . - --~
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. STA:RRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. 97L
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PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE
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.. MtmDER OF KARAM DAD OF Lon_G.ARH GATE, AMRIT.SAR~ -
*420. Chaudbri Afzal Haq: (a) Will tho Honourable the Einauoe Member be pleased to state:- - _
(i) if it is a fact that on 5th August 1926 at about 8-30 A, M. 11 person named Karam Dad of .Lohgarh Gate, Amritsar, was alleged
· · to have been murdered by several well-to-do persons ; _ (ii) if it is a fact that the Civil Surgeon reported that the injuries
were not self-inflioted ; ' _ (iii) if it is a fact that the police had the case cancelled on the ground ·
that theinjuries were selt-inffieted ; - (iv) if it is a fact that Saraj Din, son of Na.wab Din, a near relative
ofthe t:eceased, submitted an application on 7th October 1926 to the Priv.ate Secretary to . His Excellency the Governor, Inapector-Geseral of Police, Deputy Inspector-General of Police, Deputy Commissioner, Amritsar, Deputy Inspector-General (C. L D.), Police, praying for-the investigation of the case ·by a gazetted officer ·again·?
_ (b) If so, will the Honourable Member be pleased to. state.whether tht -Oovernmentintenas to have the case investigated by a_ gazetted officer ?
MAss M]llE'.l?I?-ftl OF THE MussALMANS oFLAHORE_. _ .
.. *419. Chaudbri Ram Singh : ("') Will the Honourable Finance Me~· ·oor be pleased: to".stateif it is a fact--- - - ·
(a) that on 22nd June l92J a mass meeting of the Mussalmans of Lahore was _ held under the presidentship _ of · Maulvi Zafa-r Ali Kb.an;
(b} that the speakers at the meeting used· unbecoming laµgu!),ge against the High Court and Judges of the High Cqurt and also threatened the Government ;
(c) that tbe speakers one· after the other repeated the very words · and expressions for the use of which the editonand the_ printer
of the Mu.slim Outlook bad boon convicted for contempt by the High Court of Judicature at Lahor,..;
(d) that the speakers used unbecoming language against the Hindus ; (ii) If the answers to (a), (b), {c) _an<!_ (d) be in the affirmative, will he be
pleased to state what action Governmentpropose totake for putting a stop -to such attacks in the future ?
The- Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : _(a) Yes. (b), (c) .and {d): _ Thti reports of this meeting that Government has
Been do not bear out these allegations. (ii)_ Does not arise. _ Lala Mohan Lal : Will the - Honourable Member please- state - who
makes these reports? The- Honourable _ Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : Reports - are
generally received from local officers. Without reference to records it is pot possible to tell _the exact officials from whom the reports were received in this. particular case.
STARRED QU_ESTIONS AND .ANSWERS,
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· •vu1e the footnote at pa e 969'. ante.
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·p EA.RANCE OF THE NA.MES OF HE iEDUCATION b~P RTM T . · - - ._- - - -. .· - - - - I , I , FFICERS IN BOO-KB PASSED BY TH · r_rEXT Boox CoM1MlTTIE.
. . . : Chaudhri Afzal Haq : ill ~h~ Honour1bl~ the u ation be pleased to state- . . : , I ; ( ) the number ot. books on the tit e page of which app~a .s th
. , ·!,t:,., · ·. - of the education departm nt officers and ,;;~c I_ are _ ~ ·. _ by the Text Book Committ ; 1 · _ \ l .
·· · .. · ( } wh,ether the Government - aut rises the appea1;ahG~· · f the , ,. - - - '-.' -_ofthe educat. ion department ffieere ? : I
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Th oilourable Mr~ Maiaohar : (~) 117 during th ears I l- .:(b} '.I;': ~ matter is under consideration
P1JBt1c WoRi$ DEPARTMENT ru.F!rsMEN AND TRio s. ,,. _ ,. • Chaudhrl .Afzal Haq: ill tbfl HonourabIJ he em ~ .. be pleased t<> state :- . j :
- a) whether-it is a fact that the _ bli~ Works I)epatt~e t dr and- trae.~rs of Montgome y J)µitpct sub~tt~d a .
__ - _ ". on the su'b.ject of revision o their scale of pa.y ,;- ' bi-whether it is receiving the att utiob of the Govei·ntne t ? . J. B. G. Smith : (a) Yes. _ \ ! i
.- (b) Yrn. . J .
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SECOND CLERKS oF DI 1s10:~ui OFFICEs. j !
, . Chaudhrl .Afzal Haq ~ l t~e HonourablJ due t on-be pleased to state :- ! !
( ) whether it is a fact that a s nior: assistant of ! the ffie Director of Public Instrn ion,iwhile officiating
_ · _ sistaht~ge~s a handsome am nt ~s acting allo~34ce ; ( ) whether itis. a fact that a sec 11d c~erk while ac~ing s he
in d.iv:isi,o:nal offices gets nominal allowance r n · Re. 1, to Rs. 5 only ; · ' 1 :
.,, "; · -· {) whether the . Government is . . proving the lot ofsecond cl
-- Hoaourable -,Mr. Manohar Lal~: (a) owanee depends on the substant e p~y of the actitl.gioI rk,
) The same principle obtains. ()_No.
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PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOUNCIL.
1Vol. :l~.A., page 360.
. _ STARTING oF H101rCLASSES IN Soaoor.s: . *4Z1. •... Lala Bodh ', luj: (i} Will the Hon.oura]?le.Minister.·for Eduea-
uion please state- ' - . . . . ( ~) if he is aw!l,re of the subj eQt of a letter No. 8262, dated' the 20th,;
April 1927;'~fasRe~ from the ·office· of Inspector of Schools,. _. ~ <----. l_J~hoi:~~_:?._thepi~~~i~~:I~~~t~r ofSchools, Gurdaspur;
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;REGISTER - oF·-c:o:MPLAINTS. . .
. *426. Cliauclhri ,Afw Haq :-(a) With reference to the answers toe my question No.SO (starred)1 and its supplementary questionput on 14th March 19.27, will the Honourable Finance Member be pleased to state whether the. Government keeps · any register of complaints which are forwarded tothem? . -
. . (b) If the answer is in the negative, is the Government considering the - atfvisability of keeping a record of the complaints ? , · ·
Th~ Honourable- Sir · Geoffrey deM011tmorency: A_ record of fresh receipts generally is keptin each ofthe departments of the Government ; but no record is kept separately by Government .of complaints received by· 'different departments. Government does not propose to maintain.
.auch a register as each complaint received is taken up and disposed of in the otdinary . course of Government business by the de~ruent of· Govern- ment concerned. . .
. . P:ERSONS CHALLANED UNDER SECTION 109, CRIMINALPROCE~'CJRE·CODE •
.. . . · .. · *425. Chaudbri .M~l Ha~·=· (~) WiH t-he ·mn;tourable Finance -, · }.
lVoi. X-A., p~ge 1581, • . . i !
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b) if it is a fact that the' said I peetor has issued! ap.o her· last year to the effect that revious sanction 6fth dep
- - , . I ' - _ ·is nBce!'!sary for starting hi classes? i '
.; I I ' ii Wilt the Honourable Minister lease state if the! lett r ref »_ _ - (a)applies to such schools as s rte~ their high ~la~s s bef
're a referred to in part (b) was issued if so; why ? I i · - - ii ) Will the Hono~able Minister c nsider the desira~~li~y of wi
- ng t e etter-referred tom part (a) or to end its langnageliol s ch a ann r s to e elude the schools from its, app · ation referred toj in art ( · ) ? ·
Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal i: The iniormati n i hei oll t . - i i i
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: I I SIKH DISTRICT INSPECT R OF SoHooLs.i '[
. · Sardar Ujjal Singh : Wit referJnce to m Jn tarr ion . 1821 'put in thB last session, w 11 the Honourabl the Mi · du at on please state - the name of a ikh District Insp~ct~r of Sc
ikh e dmaster of a Government High S hool at present setvin int fM an Division ? - - I - • I I
-e Honourable Mr. Manohar L : ta/ Lala IndJr lm an, :t ver • ant igh and Normal School, Multan -- i • I : I
b) · s. Hardyal Singh (who is on de utat}on with the Btjy Scou , ·ati n) holds the substantive post of H dmaster, Go.-ernin~nt Hig
lip re j I !.
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PUNITIVE POLICE TAXi I~ RAWALPI'.N:qI. - .- ' - ' • - - -' : . I
___ 0 •"_ Sa; rclarlJj-jalSingh: Will-he~oI\ourableth~~n nee 1-ea e: _ t~te---:; _ _ .. - ! • I I _ _
- - :} ~te~~~~.1::l::~~~t:;~~t!~ ~r~!:iiste~ff~:v~e~j~f ;~ ! i:!r e) whether it is not the intentio of th~ Governm4nf t exe pt t e
members of those eommu ities] i. e., Sikhs tnd ind , fro this punitive police tax ho $ufferecl heavr ifi anoi 1 loss s in the Rawalpindi riots ? i ! l
_ _ e HonourableSir ~eoffrey de ontpiorency: {a) I is r hat t s information is not available._;,,.· - 11-
b) Yes. , i - e) It is proposed to exempt fro punitive charges! ~er ons ec ive compensation for injury nd rre free fro, b!a e i e eenrrences which led to the inj - ,
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__ __ _ _ _ _ LASf ES OF TEAOf~RS.
~- . Sardar Ujjal Singh : w· the Honourable _the Mi du a ion please state- ' . I - - J -
- a) the grades of pay drawn b ~h; Sanskrit, .Ar~bi , Drill and Urdu teachers r spec~ively of the ~i~h depa
i I i ' - [ 22~D JuL 192 • PUN-JAB .LEGISLATIVE co'UNOIL.
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CLINIOAL AssisTiN~s, KING EDWARD MEDICAL CoLLEGE.
" - *~ Sardar Ujjal Singh: (i) Will the Honourable 1\finister fo,: Local Self-Government please state-
(a) whether it is a fact that out ofthe six clinical assistants appointed in the King Edward Medical College not a single Sikh doctor has been selected ;
(b) whether it is also a fact that out of the three clinical assistants that were appointed in October 1926 a Muhammadan candidate was selected who had once failed during bis medical college
. career; . (c) that the same selected candidate passed _his Doctor of Medicine
.· examination in 192Lwithout distinction ; •. · · _ (d) whether' it is· also a f;~t-~tf1at .one of the applicants· was a. Sikh
· .· · dctcfor who passed the Doctor of Medicine examination in the · same 'year standing first with distinction._and; having a very
sueeessfuleollege car13er ? . · . · _ - . , -' · _ (ii} If the answer to the above be in the affirmative, will the Honourable 1Jlnist.er. please state why the claims of a more qualified Sikh doctor were: :ignored and favour .was . .shown to a candidate with lower qualifications.? · ·
:_ FEE OONOESSIONS TO STUDENTS OF AGR.IOULTUR4L TRIBES. :
. : ,*431. Sllrdm: Ujjal Singh: (i) Will the Honourable Ministerfor. Education please state--
(a) whether .it.is a fact that ·in Rawalpindi division students belong ing to the agriculttu·al tribes have beengiven conoessions.witb
·. :· regard to payment of foef'i and other matters_; . . (b) whether it is a fact that DO Such(loncessionshave .been give~ ·to'
.·. - -the students belonging to agricultural tribes'in other divisions ? (ii) Iftbe arwwer to parts (a) and (a) is in the affirmative, will 'i;he
'Honourable Minister please state whether it is his intention to do , away with this cistincti on and extend the concessions to aU students belonging _ to agricultural tribes throughout the province?: . ' ,..,-,
. .. 'l'Jie Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : (i) (a) Yes, in regard tcde~e «:
(b) No~· ( ii) The· :matter is- under· eonsideration.
. ,;-.,ii
(b) the grades of pay of the Punjabi teachers· of the: higl:i :depart- ment? · · · ·
, ·-ThtfHono~able Mr. Manohar Lai : (q,) The grades of pay drawij by;Sanskrit and ,A.rabfo teachers and Drawing Masters in: the Government institutions are Rs. 55--8-70, 80-4-100, 110:.....:5-.:c.135 and Rs.14C-:-J0- 190 and the grades of pay drawn by Dri11 and Urdu teachers are 85-8-,,:50; .55-8-70, 80~100 andll0-5-185 ..
(.b)_ -the-gr:adeitof pay of Punjabi teachers are the sa:me·as those ofthe Drill and Ui'du teachers .. , ·
977 STARRED' QtTESTIONS AND ANSWERS~
lP'ir:le the footnote at ge 1)89 anfs.
; . I PU,NifAB LEGISLATIVE OUN;OIL. [ 22~D JUL 192
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Noon :--(a), ~b{~ ~.(a) . . :C,1,') The appointment was made bef re I assumed offi.~ef h t I.
.· ub t. at the claims ofthe candidates ere qarefully oonsW~r , an 0!Ji« _d that the profession~! esperisne of Dr. MuhammM; Y saf 'Ir · .aeademic record and post-gra training entitl 'PO:JW.l,jl. [Il. ent in prefer~ce to others. : : .
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lNTERM'El>IATE' COLLEGE N THE 8H4HPUR I ISTR
· . - Sardar tr.rial Singh: (a) Will; the Honohr~b 'e · 'st r .ir. tl cation please· state whether. t e is a proposal] for imm , iatel . pe · g an lntermediate college in the S abpur district ; j ;
. · ( ) Il so, will the Government plea e state whether ~t ha tak int
f. onsi e · tion the claims of Sargodha fur the location of t1-e col~ege re~ t Shahpur for. ~he reason of its b ing the beadqug,r~ell o tfrE' d-t e __ olony and 4aviJ:1g many high sebhols in and near it1? I
. ' I I _ ' : ·Honourable Mr. Manohar : ~a) The mat~eri is un~ " s ders ti n. 1 I j
_.(),Ye~.. ·. .· ! I!
. 'em···. I er 'P~e. a~e sta. te w. h. _ etb.e[.· it. i.s tho in enti~. n :•.of th. e Go~. er;·.. .· t:. nt. ew. a idis m tho -Lower Jhelum Canal olony :area to be f trav rsed P.W r il ay line from Ohak Jhnmra to ushab and Sargo~h~ t Gu
( ) If so, has the Government ta en into consideratio the eav l ss a c··.u· .: 1.·n.·g. t·,o. the .. peo.·ple who ha. ·:v.·e in ested.: .h.uge sums pf:.m.pney i p - _ rty · f different kinds and trade in the "sti~g mandis ? J I L
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• C.A. H. Tc;wnsend .: (a) ':Pher are! no such propo' un r th onsi e . ti9!]. of Government, nor has a y 8*ch railway linl' ~ een. oide PM, f i
- -1 I _ . \ ) oes not arise. i ! !
.. -.~: ·. .. . • I I i . .. , """ l ON~H:i.Y CANAL, CLOSURES ON T ~ L~WER JHEL*~ ANA
C I , I . . OLON • I . I i
. Sardar Ujjal Singh-: Will he Honourable th~ Re er·_b leased to st~te jf jt .is a fact t at t;here is a proposa of
c ·:rial el snres for ten o:difteen days on t e Lewer Jhelum pa;na Col . . ( )_ .f so, is the Government aware f th~ fact that ioi sJv rate
-t e c_fo y_there is no provision for wate supply for drinking p po .t • aflJ S ~l~s,severely hitting theagricultnr 'st it;wiU adversely ajffe t.th
, o ·ttie p p}e And the cattle ? 1 . I : . : _-, 1 . .J . .-B~: G. ~: (a) There is a proposal to ha~e ;1 sure f 1· te
() Jift e- 'ditys in most menths during the yea1:.• I ! i ! - I 1··
, ( ) he length of closure will not be n excess of those )i~bl to eeur a · p _e~ t-,~ cop.sequently_'.amingement~ for drinking w~ter ,n, ot b detri _
ent U affected. - ' 1 , ·
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··. ': ~Cf(;. ~~~ ~·, . Th0 aru,;;',;;. f.o (0) is tfiat~;; ~~,'.;plainllf ·. ·. ; •·•·•·• . . j i~ . :()f 1I1:1,j?°<>i-t~nceJ1ave been·made· ;~but lliy questionisa:~he~luir ~n;y complaints· . i\'.6 .. }n;fJJ:¥aveJe~.nJn¥eY_,; ,>: .. _'_• · .: · ·<'>1~-- · _ . .
- · · . · · .. · - .The Honoural,Je·:·sa.rdai' 'Jogen.dra S'mgh-:. No complaints· have·
•. ii·lti:ii\F~sjjy. AND B: .. ~o;:~~u!il;1~!i'.:!r;f \.. .;;; ..... :~t11S~&~i~l~i[#S~~I:~S~.~~:~~~~:-: \If·'--·, years 1_926.~apd 1927, and,-if- so,: Bow ma.Q..y oi these. officers a.re· Muslims- . . . .. ... '· ~;-n-:_:;•;.;;d~;· Irogt~'ftiot)~'t,.:-.
•. ·a to' this·qu~Jotris not yet ready, .. Itwiil be co1'.l'llllunieated :t(>{hce ·1!_o~bur~bl~. ,- metJ1ber w~n l'el{qy; · ' · · '~ ,.\'~· ']:1~1-/)tt;;.':~/ ·
,,: .:f-"\·\i.:·.:,. ..,;:···., <. ::·:'\~;'
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· -~-- -~::-: · The Ho¥Uable Sa:rur.Jc,gendra S~_:::· (i){~)-Gove~nment-h~--·.- .... .: ·, .: · ·'.-. ,£-:."'·- no kn(!wled«e"?f llie ~lleged feeling, an.q no·~ason-to believe.in its existenc~ ..... ; ':.-:·· ." ~:-_;:· .. \:· -~----.::'.".{:(bl Ncf ~inpl~i~ts-~f impri;ta:nce or appearing:to b~ well founded> hav<¥:' -, _.· · -:_ "-·
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'')':·;;;f (d) No .. ,it/"' - ·
er
es ot
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Muslims
·, Community.
PUNJA~ LEGISLATIVE
' j I i i l
, [j2~N I I :
- SARDAR IQBAL SINGH, Cmor,s REJ1sTRAR, Co-dP~:a, TIV · - SooIE IEs.! 11· · · · ··
. Chaudhri ZafruJLih {lll J _. (a) . Will I tbe .Ho · ~ra le .· . 1,1t r for Agriculture please state hethei: Sardin Ig~aL Sin:g ., Ci:,; ~EJ,
· J} st ar, Co-operative Societies, is on ?f t~e officers whp lies bee ecen ly: ,~~ t 4)eave to proceed to Europe for igher study and ~es~a ch a ove - llf~ : t xpense ? - - : • -_ . i ; I i
, _. b)_ ~ the answer to (a) be in the affir atiye~ will the Ho~o abl · :f?r ;, culture please ~tate whether the e wtj~e :any officerp in f.he
- t1ve D partment senior to Sardar Iq al S~ngh who were; a so e - · - - } ave ? - - ! : i i
(c If the answer to (b) be in the ffirijiative why h~v e n granted a privilege similar tot at-~ .. ~. nted to Sa,r: ap
_ . Honourable Sardar Jogen a $mgh: (a) ~es he -sele t d for the purpose. · 1 I 1 ·
·}: {b - The expression " eligi_ble" is ot ple~L There! ~re no _ eseri ed :ua ifi ations for such duty and no que ion~. o~. seniority .nte! into i ;,
(e Consequentlydoes not arise.-· I i i i i ' I i I : I I
·--. i : I J.
AGRICULTURAL CoL EnE; LYALLPUR. [ l. * • Chaudhri _. Zafrullah K an :! :(a) Will Jhe
'Mi st rIor Agriculture please state ho · m~ny students l a~·e een i.· o t. e Agn·-·-c1iltura-l. Co ... Hege, Lyallpur, i_thi ye, ar 1927 ;loi'v an. .are I lims and how many non-Musli s? I : i - .-
( How does this proportion of uslim ~ncl non-M slim stud "th the Muslim and non-Muslim roportion of pop11a1io _a. tural classes in the province ? i l ·· -
_ . , (o If t_he proportion of Musli;111 st ~lents ~-<l1UI. ·_tted t 1h Coll
- 1n a c rd with the number of Muslim a icultmnsts in the· r;ov nee, the nourable Minister for Agricultur propose to remec thi dis - . I ' I I
: : _ e Honourable Sard!U".Jogen a ~in:gh: (~) Tl~e otal nu~ er ·.of s u ents selected for admission to t e Punjab Agncu~t11ra Col f e is 86,
. incl d ng-I 6 students belonging to other provinces and Indian , tate Of he .86 s u ents, 31 are Muslims and 55 no Muslims. I I
( The proportion of Muslim-an no!-1\!ruslim stuileht bel ging to _ icultural tribes compares with t Ml~slipt'· and non J\~!·.l~f'. im P_ · p:·_ o.·._·,r.t on_._. __
· ultural population as.follows : I
~ertentage of I? nta - sel lag~icult~ral - , J. e f'!f.. • t: is ropnlation. ! miss '• : · 52 I : 4
Non-Muslims _ . . . . ..;' 48 1· I 5
·(& Five Muslim ctindidates -~ave b en ~ecially admi t~~ _ nd acti seems necessary. . ,.
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RECRUITMENT_ 'TO POLICE FORCE. . : · .
. *441. Chaudhri Zafrullah·:- Khan: (a) .Will. the .Horiourable ·tlie· Finance Member please state whether any constables or. officers of higher rank have been recruited to the police force during the months of May and June 1927; ifso, how mariy ofsuch new recruits are Muslims and how many .non-Muelima P
. (b) · Is it a fact th.at the new recruits are preponderatingly non-Muslims., lf so, what is the reason for such preponderance ? · · -
· (t) If the reason or any .of the reasons for such preponderance be the fact that Muslims are already in a majority in the lower grades of the police· iqrce and that the p.oil,1fuslim recruits are intended to raise the proportion
-, o.:f. non-Muslims in the police·force1 what steps is the Ronoili-able Member· ·. ... .· ,prepareg. to _take to-raise the proportion of Muslims . where they are in a .
.. ':Jc,;/n:QfOrity.in.other branches o:ttAr)niblic serviee ~derthe.c?ntrol of the- . ·: s- > honourable member? - · .,·~ : ," - _ - · .. -· · - -
·;:::t,: :.,.< 'The" Honourable Sir·Ceoffrey deMontm.orencf: The 'reply to this . .; : . i: \-Councn ·Questionis not yet ready, :it will be communicated to the honourable- . ;': ;'-\''Jqemb~h~hen 1·eady; . • -, . - . ' . . - . _ .'. .· < _·. ,
.. - ='\~tt·1:"~)',tf,:i·;-' ':: Rot~Olil' OFFtd~s- A~n LA.;~~E R1~Ts. ·
-.: :)~~~)~-~44!. . Chaudhrfl.afiullah Kb@tU (a} win the.Honourable the Fin :,:' : ,,; ·•a;n~,e; !crember ·ple_as~ _ state the hames 'and. ranks .· of police officers . deputed. . - ·. J;':/~"qar:ryon <?1' concerned. with the ~-y:estigation i:qto 6:ffeli,Ces arising out of tfaf -
· :· /2< ~:fecerit'-disturbances in Lahore 'l · -. · · -_ - ·_ .- - ,_::,_ :/{hf rs it a .fact_ t1i~t there- is a p~eponaerance of non-Mu-su~s ain~ng
- - :--flJl,~h. 9ffic.ers ? _ - .:- - - , · -· _ - - . · . _ , _ _ - . < (c}. !sit a.fact tha,t• ·oornplajiii'sJiav& been llla'de,J)i'the prJs~: .and.· .. havk·
• also.been addressed .tq.Gove;rnment,that owiptf<J the preponderaecsoj such nori.'.Mus.Jiin officers, the investigations are. lrning conducted in a highhanded
.. :ma,n1,1·ai· .and· that a large number ot-innoeent .. Mu.slims-hav-e )i~en implicated .Tli co_nnecti~n-.with thevariotis offences .• asthe result of such·iJivef!tigation ?, .. ,Jt~o;0,jhl!,t steps: has th~ liorte>ni'a$1EJ m~mb& taken or is prepared to take/ to · . ' #ur·~ ~~t as _the resul~ ofsu(j~:fove8tigations innocent persoii$'11hould not ·. )uffe(~i1i1:g with those_ wh.o;-i~l:e.giii:lti 2 . c · : : : < > _; ., :/ ::,\{. ... .t:
- " - -- .: - ~-Vf(t11 the footnote. ro,pagir-961r-Mi?e, · -r
· a l"oL . X•A, pagij' 432. . .. _· · - . -
. RELIEF OF DIS-'l'RESflH' ~E.biLE IN WATER-LOGGEif :A_REAS IN THE . . Si:~KOT DISTRICT. .
: , *440 ... _ Chaudhri. Za&ullah .Khan·: Will the -Hon~tuable: the Beve- · c:riue Membe:r please .sta,te. "'h?,t progress has so far been· made to alleviate
? tlle\listres,s: of 'people fesid-ehi or.owning land wit,hin -. the - water-logged 'areas)rr th{) ,Sialkot Di~trj.~tc?'';., .. , . . . · .. · . . ... ·
· . · 1Mr. C. A. H .. Townsend : : The honourable member -is referred to the an,swer given to Council Question -No. 1702.at the Iaatsession, .No othe.r • .
. 'villfj,ges·ha;veagreed to:the,te1ms offered by Gove!1llilenL Steps are in pro gJ:"ess to effect the transfer of.the.nine villages who have accepted the terms.· offered to transfer them to the Nili Bar : hut progress in the matter is slow·
· - as the '\fillagers concerned do not entirely approve oft he Chak that theColo nization Officer has selected for 'them.
981' STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
. l'Vf.de the footnote. ai pageJ~i, ante.
'l'otal
Honourable Sir Geoffrey ( ) Superintendents of Police 2
; . . i '
eMon~morenc:y i= ·1 ·
. I r
I 1 .. Deputy Superintendents of P lice I
Inspectors .. , Sub- Inspectors
Constables
Pl,iNJAB LEGISLATI E COUNCIL.
··?-r?:t:::t;;: :+,·
.···'!
_. The above figures do not include 16 ~t.uaents belonging to other pro moes and Native States who have been a.dmitted on the :reoon1Diendations, of the AdministJfatfons concerned. - _ --· (~} OftHE> 70 students from the Punjab, 14 do n<>tbelong to any notified. agnoultiltW ttibesjbut they are.:B¢1S of ottltiyators_or land-owners. ·
(ii) No. -. Frefet~rice - is giv~n_ to applioiints ,of, iigi-lmjltural parentage. . but the following further points are· also born~ in mind hl making admis~
M>ns:..,.,.. :: · __ -._ - __ .: . ·. · • · .c.:':': • _ _-_-- · · ·
. (1} Fait iillotiri~nt by -distrlo~ an<l rev~ue.divii\ibns. - · (2) __ Rruative propottio~ of the fariguil ootomtihitielii (S) Fitness of applioan~ to pass the exami:tlittionl'!; .-, -
· (4) 11:elimin&ry eduoatia.rl. . . : ~--. --._- __ _ · -_@) WMth~ &ppliC!~nts lfelbng jo iamilies. po~g .lands:o, uot~ ·- - ·
(ii'/,) In view of the reply to (ii) above, this does npt aruie, " · - , . (iv) [£he pr~edure' ado.pted wa-s rip':t defeetive..: On. tlie i>ther hand,
liter t]w ge11.e;ral selootio_n five MttMirimada.i:i dAnµic'lates werti a44ed to tlie· list; of selected candidates in order to reirl9ye iJomttitmat disp.roportibn~ ·
Rana Firoz-ud·Din. Khan : 'Wnlit" w~. ~~ J>ropedure .followed ? - Th~ }Jono~ablii .· ~aar j'og~nclra _·. S-mgli: : llie procedure was
-U)_' g<(_by---tl{0_di.viEllOn&:~- . . ~- --- .; .. 'i~iui Fitot-1ici;Jj~ IOian : ~ How ?. . ' ; _ _--- -_TheJiontiurab~~s~~Joge,1tb'a: Sioih':- Pr6tessorJ· were~·ap Fo~tea antfthese J)tOf~rs ;mllde sel()otioll from ea.oh diusion ; then a '(JO:III,• inittee sat ~nit made th~ :fi.nahe~QA,~: _: - - ~- __ . ,. . ·~
- -. \ R~~ Firo2-ud•Din' Klfm : · ·-on whai~uasisY ... Tlie Honourable SarmirJ~endl"a,Shlgh:-· Bo manystuderits __ Wel!e allowed Jor each.diyision and then they were selected. If fu.rlher information 'is ~equp:ed, lrequiieJ~~yce~- Cc • • • • • - • -- • -
APP<>INjMENTS .- IN T'.fl:E _ ffciBORI)IN.A_TE EmrnATIONAL . 8:rmVIOE •• ~~-.~ _ .. .. *452. L@JJ MQhan Lal: ,_(a),WJIL the .Bonouxable Minister fo• "'Eauoation> Punjab, please sfateth& number of new appointments made in
c
Oommunity. Muhammadans Hindus Sikhs' Christian
No. s_e"lected for admission.
'}[{ 18 . 24
1
-70
. (i11) Is the Honourable _Ministe1: for Agriculture prepared t-o remove the jt1.st grievance of)V.InE1im community for not receiving their due share owing to defective procedure adonted by allowing them ad<litioaal_rturnber to make- up the difference ? . . .
. ·lhe Honourable Sardat_ Jogendra Singh : (i) (a) 498. (b)
98is.'. STARRED QUESTIONS AND .ANSWERS.
. j i
. k j • PUNJ.'A~ LEGISLATIVE COlJNCI'L •. .; .[ $~ND JuL
1" •• # •
. . ion wit~ the ~termediate Colle es iJ the SuborJn.Jte Edu ervi e according to communities, and · Iso the proJ!l4):tioris th t ha eee t1 made in the r~niks of the. Bubo dinate Educational [se "ca
· · o ommunities ? · 1!
! • , ' I
b) Will, the Honourable Minister kindly state the I exa t p d~p e in making these appointments nd ~romotibns ? j
. e ~o~urable Mr. Manohar al : i I ... j regret tbl1 t t. h u stion rs not yet ready. : · ; ]
! • ·, i : ]
. RAILWAY LINE FROM PaTIIA or !To CHAKKI •. :
. Cluiudbri Ram Singh: (i) W~ the Honouta~le _Me e be pleased to state if he is a war of the fact :- I ! a) that the Railway Departmen has; cBnstructed a te . por
way line from Pathankot t Chakki for the pijot of ,1....,.....,,,n1 . . !'lto}!es fro:m. the.Chakki ; . . 1 , • -- Ji ..
: bLt.h!li~- the extpi,ctiozi.ol the st nes' from the C alfki :has numerous large holes in the ed of the same and th t on
. . ~ .: of ~o?ds t~e vro,t_er le~~l Q _thet Chakki is g9ing own · day, m co,pseque~(}~,.of w ch the dahanas j of dana,
._ . . . · : ·Kangra and G~daspur_ dis tjctJ have heel! ~am;· ed .. -~ . . -- - . . · - al"088- :Of \and have .become baraki ; I • •
~ :' .. ·· i:'J that tlie railway department. ter~d into an a~e~ ant zamindars that if. the ex actibn· of stone~! alb , th
- causes :!ci~~ t_o )ht3'i~min_ars, 'th~ worlr. ofl s~o 0~ -0 will be discontinued forth "th? .. · , l
i, If the ~;~-t~(~):-'(btand- ) iiJ°~ the - a~ltit~, t e · i!!.ble-¥einb~ fox ::f!:eveiiuecba pl mfjto.take_s_om~ suitble eps · tt ? ' I . I I -· -
1:C:: a .;.~···Ji~~~:~e~i~-~~fer~~- c~hJs_;bee~-zriade.!~o-the ge · -. ~ter,;i_ ;R,ailway; ·l!Jld t.he. m!11t of _t~e same will ~el~ mm :oat
O t e_ -91l'O~~ble ~~mhei: ~.hen receive • _; ;·. L . •. - ~1· ·. · - · .: ·:::. '-~~ . ~ - .. . . . I
DAM. AT' D.urrAi; BIRT ND 'M6HTLI. I [: ... " Chaucltiri 1Ram 'sing~ : . ill. ~hJ Hori~li!~*!(- el.D -_ i .-f ? e be pleased to state if it ~ a f ~ t that in the eoursel o his ur -t e
e gineer to Punjab Government- s pleased to· tiisp t t ~ da ·iin ·-:- tal, Sirt,and :Mohtli inthe.Kan · district and sai:i.otio ad e la . . s for t?e constrnotion;of- adan; --:~:so, ~u be b1e i>l~e:sed . sta j he the said dam has been OOB8tm ted~- iJfit has i1beioo ot .
. h. a. ·.· th···· e .. am. ount of IP,OJ!9Y-SPent. on·. 0: 04.J:lStruotion O t~e.. am. e. ·. - .. Il.. • t. . . as . o been so far 001,1,stmoted, will h be pleased to st ta t e re ns f r &··'a-:?.--'.---_·; .. '; . a .• !'\ .. r :·.·:: ·: ''. '
r., ·~ . ·:1.·e. G. Smith·: The hon able member isl itlfo .med hat - . ·• rde ,t arrive at correct figures it .. l!.!t~_ b n n~essary to m~k~ -ti' q · ; · · - - - .·
: _ooa.l.o cars_ and .when the -Jms:wer is re dyit will be-001llm1 __ ~te tot EC ble-member~·,·:~-~- ---·. -- - · - -- : -,. - -- i ·1
·----~:-.
1vo1. IX-A., pa.ge 279. _
.. . - - - --·
:--."'f'·,:-:· __ -;. :-·,-r-7·
- ._ ~:.T ~ · 1927 J925
. · :· -~.'"- .·: _...,..._......,.~.
''.t· HINDU' D'EPUTY 'AND Ass1s'T:A:NT -DEPUTY !NSPEOTORS OF 80:e:OOLS. a ·'·
. : .: *451. - :-Lala Kesko Ram '&khri : (a) ·wu! t~e IIonourable__the ~~ ·tar for Education please state the number of. Hindu Deputy. InB~ectors ot. Schools and-·Assistant Deputy_Insp·eeton of Schoois in thifliahore. Division in .1925 and '1927, respectively, and the· total number - of such officers of all communities in the division ? .
: (b) ., If.the number of Hindu 4,s_s_i,tipa~tDeputy lnspectors of Schools is oxily three. or four out 9f the total strength of SO, .willthe Honourable the Minister for_ .Educ!itfori stapeJhe measures he-is, taking_to _put a stop to .the 'elimination ofltmdu Members in this division 'l : _: - ·-=-: ~ 0
, __ -
- - : The Bomurahle -: Mr~ -Manohar~ Lal : -- -- -- - .; ' ..
:. REW.A.RDS FOR·'SERVIOES TO 00-0PER.AT!VE MOVEMENT.·.: - _ - :!<456. Chaudhri: Ram Singh : Will the Honourable the Minis~ :
"for Agriculture be plased to state if it is a fact that people who-have ren.deied- '· meritorious_ services in the cause or co-operative movement have been re -warded by Government in one way or the other ? If so, will he be pleased -to state what reward, has been given to such of. the-inhabitants of the Kaiigra district who; hav1:3 helped the Government in spreading 'the oo-ope:r1Jotive .movement ? :_ _ _ _ · . : _ · · - _ ·, - -~-
-,- c If no reward has so far. been given will he be pleased to. state whether t1ie' "~: Government is -prepared to consider the desirability of giving these people i -SQ:inE:l suitable reward at an early date ? .... - · - : ' _ · · _ · - · ·
·-:::The. 'lionourablecSardMJQ!endia .Singh l· - The - honourable membee. - is referred.to the a.nswilr given to Counoil Question: No. 2'6151 on the 2nc(oj~~ -
-- March 1926:· .· '. ,. :' _ .-· /(: .·- .• - · . - ;" .• - -/s,~·i. . .::-,: ..;._,,;;~~,.:.·.: .:.- .
. '"J:&QILAB," OF LAHORE,.· *455. Cbtiuc\hii. R~ Singh : Will the Honourable Finance Member
be pleased to state wbEither his attention has been drawn to the issue ofthe "'' .Inqilah " of Lahore, dated . the 28th June, 1927, in which while eommens-; ing on the resolutions passed at a meeting of the Anjumair1ri-Khuddam~uiJ. · Din words havebeenused which· are likely toendanger the life of Mahasba;'. .Bajpal, author of the --Rangila, Rasul? If so; will he be pleased to state - whether the Government is prepared to.take action against the said paper?-)_:' -
, .The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : , 'mi_e _jssu~ oUhe "'' Inqilab ", dated the 28th June 1927, published the -resolutionsin qnes- __ iiions ; · but did not con:tment on them. · ..
·987.~ , STARREJ> .QUE~TIONB AND ANSWERS •
.... ,
I
I _ PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOU~CIL, [ 22.t,'D JUL 192 ~
.· ; I ;
. i : . P~OVINCfALISATIONOF H1 H SpHOOLS, I l -J·~ .. _ 8. Lala Kesho Ram Sekbri : Will the Honoudabla • s er f r: on please state the number of d strict board scho~ls r ised t .. ' ; ·
_ abusduring the years 1926,192'l in the Lahore divisio an .sta &' he.11- her of headmasters of such sehoo community-wisel?
. -<_i. __ (: o · -#any of these schools were rovinoialised dqrihg 9~Jr 1 21-;mth the names of headmaste s of $uch schools ?i I - - '_:. ' - ~· Honoutab1',Mr~ NfillioMI' - .: '~ (a} In 19~6, fo1r uch
· ere sedto the ~g~ status; iD: each c .~ t,~e he~d~astej ·b,ei_ ~ a __ aid n, · Information 1s not available _!o tll~ c~rrent yearr ! - ' { ) In 19~6,. none ;0f these schools as provincialisedl i I 192 ~9 · i: vineialised, ~he};i~dniastei;s be· g S.: Wilayat Shah, ;M Mu ~. ~8! _4 M. Abdul _ Hamid. - : i i
--- · ~ - "---- 7 . _ L . I i .. SoHopxs, AND M'.A.TRI LA'l'ION AND Boaoo
<JERTIFIO~TE: Jll:xil ~A.Tio~. 1- I _ _ . . . . . _ . . _ (1) Has the ~t~e . on hie the MrmstElt for Educatio been drawn to aq a icl
__ · __ , 'dated the 24th June 1927, pa e s;i,uhder the J1eald' g " - f:Go e ent Sohools'"? - _ : ! i - :
- '. . . · ~ (a) Is it a f.acHbitt the pa~s per ntah ~:( the resu tsJoi t.he ·. t}i - · ~- ·
~e~ n.:n:~!i~~J~Yf~f;!:~ce~t t:::tft~' 1:Ji' it 81io' ,!~t t- . · t.e· fo·.r_·_ E··.duc. atton.please st·a .. t··~.the~ ~es. i of. sue .. ~-.~. chop. I~?
~) Ji, 1t a. fact .t~t now the instru tiona! condition ~f th sci+ ot r''··· ive sufficient:attention,and the o-ca1led extramurata· trot IV ~i rionof the school work ? : i r - -
· ;;,_. ·-: HJ :; : -: t -r- - : .- - '·-. -· _, -- - - - - I i ~~iL _ 'Haou:rable/-Mr .. : Manohar ;; N No: I I
. -•D (&.)-~he information-is being co lect¥.! 11 f
) No. I ; ·· ! - . - - -- ! ; ·J 1-
'C - ~iovIN_O)ALISATIO OF iSdliOO~l:l. . 1- - - • Lala :k~o Ram Sekhri : (a) Wijl the Hontnta let e M' -.- ;. ducation please stale-the num r Of 8Ch001S that I -wjer - pr 'nci l-
- - - ...the.heginningd the. polic.y.. - - pi;ovinciaJisi#if>n '[. -_ ~i,JJ..WJilO
'. he I h of the service of headmaster so recruited in th~ istri t Boa d . "g s hoolsat the time of the provinci lisation of such sehbo s ?
.__:,...;..... -·""-···--·--_--- .. -.----------:.:--. ;, .-·· - 7 -- -1 --- I - • - ! : b) Will the Honourable Minister ease state how ma:µy of t
_ ~st r inentioned in paragraph(a) were recruited from ou~si4e on Bit, f -~gra~sin BcardBervices and ere given the same sal in ~~ 8-!iC?c<>l!IX .. -_: - _'- ------- i I ! -- ---
l. :. c) Jlow many. of s~--,headinaste s w~re. promoted t(o he - - a~· 0 2oOinSnh<fi'auiateEducationS rviee and how m~n'.f_ o th · ial d catibn Service; after provincial sation of those schdol up 927 - . ·~- _ _ - .• I _ i - J :- -
., -, i _ d}_lIJ}w manY.:'.h,ia.rlma$tera were clire~_tJ:y. 1ecruit€c~ ip ~J : .• :2.00-~liO: grades'. and s11b1,c rntly promoted ! t9 fs. -
:~-~ a d P10TincialEducat~:.~,~~e1.~ :c .~1-!t~/h~ l~st.sif 1.e.-.lr._s _2_ : _ , ~~·
·~ -~ !.- ! l i ! ! . i .
MACHINERY FOR i:aiIGATION PROJECTS.
*462. Lala Mohan Lal : win the Honourable Member for Revenue . :be pleased to state the value of the machinery that has beeri. 4tdent~<l J,or the Sutlej Valley and other irrigation projects taken in hand by tlte Goy~ ment since 1918 ? How much of the machinery recefve!l has be~!l us~~ ?' Cl.
- . (b) Is it a fact thafthe iitrge amount ~(n{achinecy itidented was found to be of no use afterw-ards ?
(c) Will the Honourable Member be pleased to state the totitl value . :realised by th_e Government by-ttnniale of the machin6!Y through the
Surplus Stores Officer? H«:_>w muchof the machinery: wliidh was sold was . <Qld-and how much .new ? · · - . __ . · - ~ · -1,Mr.J..B~G.Snijth: (a) Theonlyirrigationprojecttak~ in hanur.J>y the Punjab Governmetit since 1_918 is the Sutlej Va;Iley Pr-0j;ect and ·t}I~·~y
= to the question consequently .refers to that project alone.: .:A.coma.ta figutes .are not available, · but it will be sufficiently near to say about Rs~'10'.ile
,:Jaundred lakhs. A~lJhe mac.hiri~ry has'~beeil u_13ed e;~_pt J,!iOp :V-!l,1_Ued at ,.li.la.khs, say, l!per cent. oHh~toti'.1,1.yfllue. _ - -
(b) No : c:>n the contrary neady 9t) ifer-'C'ent. h!i,s ,been:ino_st qse:w}. _ :( cy (i) _ Total value 6f stores sold ,by the DisposatQilwf:lr (~ll!S .Si9Jfl
Officer} from the S_11tlej Va.Hey Project is &. ».5,0~ nearly. · :.'. · >- _ : · (ii) Out of this,-the\talue-of new and'nn~ storf:ls was:only ].l~.,~.@ ,-:neatly,11.ndvalµedf.used-stor~s11old was Rs.:4;1,000 :: .
-~--~--~----'--'--. l ---Hindus1 Muhammadans. j Si~ 0th~ -
Deputy Inspectors of Schools I I 1
!I - 1
cDistrict Inspectors of Schools . . ' 6 16 7 ·: .1 -
Assist1i.nt District Inspectors of Schools! - 29 79 28 - 2
Lala Kesho Ram Sekhri : What is meant by ' o-tners ~2, -- The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : Christians ind cit-hers. Laba Kesho Ram Sekhri: .Are there any Jains includea"? . The Honourable- Mr. Manohar Lah I am not aware of !1P.Y• \If
_ ihe honourable member wants to know. it - more · defi:riitely, I will make .enquitjes,. but I do not think there are any. · '
1COMMUNAL REPRESENTATION AMONG Dm>UTY AND ASSISTANT DEPUff - INsPE<J'l'ORS oF · Boaoors, - - -
- . ~ -*481J Lala Kesbo Ram Sekhrf: Will th& Honourable Minister - "for Educa.tion please state the total number of Deputy Inspe-ctots ~rid
..Assistant Deputy Inspectors of Schools in this province ·giving th(f number
...of Hindus, Sikhs and Muhainm~'dans in each of the· t\yq -serv.i00$?. - The Honourable Mr: Mmohar Lal:
- ·n, U~ll()~~kJ, Mr~ ~oli~. ~: Tlie iµfqPpation. is being ,,oqllected iJ,fi<f wjll 'Be' suppijed fo the honourable meiµ~~ wp.e:ri re~(ly.
. "' · •. • , ·• , -· , • · . . i _ ~- / .~- .• __ I, . ·., ',• :·. • .. _, ; - ··:.' ''.·! \ .:
STARal.il) QU:IDS'rlONS AND AN~W:iJJBS.
!NSPEOTOaB JN THE Co-o RA'tIVE DEPART~l!)N •
· ': , .. - · . •• Lala Mohan ·Lal: Will t e Honourable MiDfSt r fo
...• '!: t ~f~4~!~;!'."~i ~.:ii!"i::~~ ::~~(~isii~: ~t!p. ati, ·. Honourabh ·Sa:rdar Jogen Singh: (a) 211. !
c) 62. . i ' I : rn 16. l I i
DEPRESSED CLASSES IN THE POLICE DEPART ENT - . . • . - - • I
466. Lala Mohan Lal : Will t e Honourable Memb fo , be l aaedtostateifmembersofthede ress!:Jdclassesare~ake int poli e?
ot does the Government intend to d ecHhat, in the matte ofr c nit o iceeonatables, the members of he. depressed cla~s~s ho als
? - ; i I I
. Honourable Sir. Geoffrey eMon-.orency :: ~ robe de r ssed classes are not enrolled in he police. Whe*1 the e is
_ t t lie dep~essed cJ~s.ses. aa·etreated on a~ equal footing,b~all -·=th -c nmty, or-wlien Government satisfied that ento~m nt o
of h se classes will satisfy the requir ments of'efficiency an be · int ts of the composition of the service, Government will e q "te·
~l' • -~ t~ throw ~p~n recruitme~t t them, proyided ~h~y rome p to th&· . pli land other slandards required of all recruits, : ,· - - ~ . . ~ . '
I
I
-, -~ PUNJAB . • . l ~~.J . SOIIOLARSHil?S FOR ; BOYS O THE DEPRESSEDi ~L11:lBES -: _ :
"' . Lala Mohan Lal; __ (a) W the Honourable Miilister or E u . _c~t 9_ be pleased tq-~~a~e if it is a fact that, the Governnient tas fi d so e
sch l , ships for the boys of-th~ erimi al tribes ? i · ( ~ If the rep!y to the above be in the affirmative, willit e H
· · er be pleased to sta~e if they inte d to 1extend this p:pvile e to
members of. the depressed class s ? 1 ! 1 .
e Honourable Mr. Manobar : (a) Stipend~ a~e aw • ) Members of the depressed class s ar~ eligible for f~e ~o cessi
· !d cl ~2-,-ehapterfVofthe Punjab E ueation Code; · 1 · -:- - -
! 1 '. ; I : .
Co-OPER~T_~VE SooIETIES OR !DEPRESSED 1L!s EB.
Lala Mohan Lal: Will t e Miri.ister for A~icp.l ure . a e how many Co-operative Societi shave been started :fo the
s ? -, . - ! ·· 1 i ·. - . . 1. : .
~ ( ) Is it a fact that a memorial as ~ent by the 4epre sed c asse of Ja ~ _for_ the sta~i~g of _Q~_-oper~~i So~ieties fo~: their bs J _
( ) If the reply· to (b) above be in ths ~ffirmative, Jil~ t e H our ble · s er be pleased to state what action bas been taken on'it ?
Honourable Sardar Jogen ·$ingh: I regtet t at t question is notyet ready. It 11 beeommunicated] t - th hon ur- ember when ready. But I ca assure: the honoqrlljbl me er t at
e are any depressed classes who ant ~o start a socift:Y t ey · 1 rec ive consideration. ' i '
I Yide the foot 11ote at page 969 a'llte.
:*470. Lala Mohan Lal : (a) Will the Honourable Mmis€ef for Local :Belf-(fove:rm.nellt be pleased to state whether an embezzlero()nt of about·
. ." Rs-.· 9 ,ooo. has been di!!c~v:eted .in the· Amb11JaM unieipal' iUi\ds -? .' - • - •• , '""·--·~...:.,::.'" __ . c:._ - -·c- - - .- • - • • • •• • •• . • •_.. _· ! . . . . ' .. •o,\ .. • • ~. . •
. . (b) if thEfreply-'to,-t-h~·above);e in.Jh_e·affir;inative~ riI thi Honourable.. : Minister be pleased to state t--0 whose neg}igence this. embezzlement isdue. · ,and w~at 1>teps ar.~ being taken t_n ;,:;eco;ver the money.? . ·•. ,· -··_ ... _ - . ',... .. :·' .•• · · .•• ,. -··· ·.·., ... ,.·(. :._· ... ,,: 1
._ Th~ Honourable Malik F:aroz Khan, Noon: LocaJ.:offi.ci:lrs'. repoilt ·. is a)V;a_.iteft.,1~::Hc! t:tie.reply }Vill be ,cq:ipm11:.nicateq. to tl:te. honourable. member ~ ,du.e,-~qt#~~.·r· ··/. , ,\ .. :::, ,:\: ... )· \ ·,:-.:·\ ~-;,. ,_,- .. '.C:,_'·,:: · ·.. . . ..
. . : ·~ •..
~- (b) A satisfactory source of s1,1pply has been discovered and ~ scheiri.e - ~awn _up: and ·negot-i~ions -are now in progress· with 'tlie N orth~Western. • Railway Administratioll with l!, view to its participation inthe.scheme.' - ...
. .. · DRI'NKlNG WATER lN THE AMB.A LA C1_'1 Y. . .
· *469. Lala. Mohan ial: (d)Will the I!onQurable Minister-for Loe.al . Self-Government be pleased to state whether the Government knows that )he.re is a great scarcity ofdrinking water in the .Ambala City? _ · :·>. '_ (b) Ii.the.reply to thf:l: above be in the affirmative, will.he oe pleased to .
. :state-what steps.are being ta.Jrnn to give adequate supply of water?
_, · The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon ~ (a) - Yes>
.. *468. Lala:.Mohan Lal: (a) Will theHonourable Minister fot.Ed.u- cation he pleased to state if it is a fact that in Rawalpindi Division.iin some Normal Schools, the Hindus have· not been admitted at all?
· (b) If the reply to the above be in the affirmative; will. the Honourable- Minister· be pleased to _state the reasons for so doing ? - _ · -: . · The · Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : (a) No such case l,,as so iar ·
-eome to the .notice of Government. · · (b) Does not arise.
NORM.AL. SCHOOLS IN RA w .ALPINDJ • c. :-._ ...... _~··
99I ST.ARRE-D'Qt1ES'l'IONS AND AIS"BWERII: '
SQU.ABES oF LAND -ro M;z;iMBERS- t>Jt THE PuNJAJFCouNoJL.
*467. J.ala Moha.n Lal:. Will the Honourable Member for Revenue 'lfopleased to state,how µiany •. squares .of land have .heengiven (a) free.(b} -'orilease, tothp members ofthe-Punjab Council, since'the PunjabCcunei]. w,as. · .Inaagurated, the area and numberof squares and the:tEnris on which the- sale or the lease has been made ,? · · · · · · · · - · · ·
1Mr. C. A.H. To~end : .A reference has been made to all Com.mi~ . ;eBioners ofDivisiona in the Punjab. '.I he information :rnq uired will be supplied )>n receipt .oftheirfeplies. . . . . . .
I
' • ~ .j
•
PQ~J~~ L:!iJGJ:SLA'l'lVE C UN~IL. [ 22~D JUL
AD~l:JION TO TRAINING ~~TITUTIONS_, I i j' 4 ~. Lala Mohan Lal: (a) w· th~ Honour-able iMin' ter
e pleas?"! to st,ate if there ~ a.ny _irc~ar or order o~ the[ Gov dueation Department to the 1stnot Inspectors of 1scho . . g institutions the admission be in proportion '.to; tqe po
una.ja.b and that the Principal of ;Nonna.I S3hdols houi es to the training institutions n. cemmunal bask? ' · . . . I .
_ • : ~- If the reply to the abovs be in t e a.~rmativ~, wilU t~e IJ~ , ~be te be pleased to state whether s ch :mstructions lla.ve been lllsu
- t e interest of education ? ; i I : Honoura'bie - Mr. Manobar Lal~ (a) The p~mlpootus
emaoular course, lays down tha , given the necessary qua • tion , ortions obtaining amongst the ifferent co:nmuni,tie.s f t 1
on, together with other circu: sta.~ces, should ih~ _ eonai e !:ld · admissions. . i i ! · _ · _ · ·
) Government considers that e iitst).·uction, &*e lin. the · tare t · u tion. 1 I i
i i I :
OF THE IN:QUSTRIE3 DEVE~O MEN BoA n. i I I - ·
. - - ! I ! 4 2. Lala Moh~u_ Lal : (a) Ii th~ Bonourablei~ini tar
atio be pleased to state the criterio. according to which the f th . osiery Sub-Committee of the Ind stries Developmeht Bqard, ave b en nominated ? ] ! • j '
.· ) 1$ it a fact thiJit the member n miD.9ited from Lu~hiia ha ·:en. o of the h- osie;r factori~s fo. r the 1a_st ~5:years snd ] c1n_ e_ q_u
o a ed. member IS not being backe up! by the Ros(eo/ Ass ·_ u · a, which is a very well organis :l ,',s~o:fr>.tion of f-Jie ·. _ l!f f h si ry goods in Ludhiana ? ' ' ! l i
. ::_: '.: ) Is the Government aware of t1 faJt that the ~u~Ji ana _ · • . n passed unanimously a resolu ion expressing theij d1· ss_a t" 'th e nomination of the ~~her ~ zn Ludhiana ? I [ .
, what steps does th~ Honoura le Minister proposei t ta.k of nomina.t~g · a representative f t~e Hosiery A~soo' tion
Sub-Comnuttee? · I '
LAHORE RIOTS.
*474. Sardar Ujjal .Singh t (a)Will the Honoarable the FiUl'l{W · Member please state whether it is a fact that fiery speeshes were mlofe ·in Lahore after the incident at Hsveli Kabuli' M"llby Maulana Z':\f1n Ali
a and others? . . . . . . . . . ' :
(b) Is it a fa.ct that Muslim feelings were highly esoited after the iu.oi .:.dent 11it B:aveli Ka.buli Mal?
(c) Which of the officers were responsible for grau.tm.g permission to the Muslims for ta.king the dead bodies in proeession ? · .- · ·
. . . {d) Tu it a fact ~~t ~J:!~11t p(),tW ¥)l~S joii't~ tlll,\~ P!'QPE!$Sioµ inolud ·.ia,g s<mie of *·~ t1min~t lead~~ of tl.ie 0~~¢:lity ft ; . - .
.. je)_~_itl~apt t~fsq~e, ofthe pr~e.s~iq!ljats made very fi~y Jpeecb$s -aftp13 U~1y~~ty gr~q,l;l_ ? . -. _ - . . . ..-.·· · , , :
. · U1 ~ it a J!)~p f~t: tb.e WPI? a~@Q.°mg. tµ~ ~ro(l~Sl;l~pn b~m~ unruly, ·'thrmv ,bncltbtts ''oil· mtidus· arid·· Sillli · an.d broke · ~ow-oaJes ,. ha ·. , in.dow ·!.l:r"" '· · ·.·· " . . ' ,. .. •.• ,., ,. . · . ,)J ' . · . .. .· · $,,1 ' · J .·· · !;' . 'Y.1,·. '). ,;_.g1i"sses ()t sotne ot th~' snopf h Anat~~ ? , . .u ' u:' t: • • •• •
c ~·-, ~HXL ~ • ,-~/,,Ia:. ,~ '.:.~;J
1-
Porres m LAHORE CITY. . . . . -
!~73 -. · ~~~ ijjjal $~g\l : (a) Wtll the J;!Q~ourable . th~ ~an.oe :Member please state whether it is a. fa.ot tha.t the police strength m Lahore City ~uriµg t}J.e·dll,ys of . the .Lahore riots coµsisted mainly of ·the Muslim _.~mmup.ity? .· . . ·.
,(b) What was the number of Snb-Inspeosezs in the City a.'lri ho.v llllUY -~ere Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims, respectively ? : (c) )sit a fact that during the Inhere .riots the police COluive:lat sons -Of the offences and failed in; certain cases to:arrest the. offenders on tli'e spot·?.
(it; Isjt' a fact that immediately after<the incident 8,t Hsveli Kabuli Mal, Muslim .Ieaders joined the -investigatdon which was' held by Muslim Police officers under -their V'8'cy shadow?
(e) Is it a .fa.ct that witnesses were taken to the office of Mt. Muhaminu.d Amin, Vakil, where Muslim leaders were q·ua.rternl an.1 the ideltifioltio1,
-of the accused was carried on there ? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: . (a). Th4) number
-of Muslims in. Lahore City police were in excess of the number of Hindus . and . Sikhs.
(b) The number of Sub-Inspectors posted' to the City at the time of tne riots was five, viz., 8 Muhammadans and 2 Sikhs.
(c) Careful investigation was made into these allegsbioas but in no case 0could they be substantiated. ·
(a) Some Muslim leaders did go to the scene of the murder a.t Haveli -Kabuli Mal .whenthe local police-started the investigation.
_ (e). It was raining heavily o~ the night of the iuoident and the investi gating officers took shelter in the office of Mr. Muhammad Amin, Vakil,
\vhich is close to the scene of occurrence a,•J.d which he kindly placed. at their disposal Md- they continued their investigation thei:e for a few hours.
_ _ The accused arrested on. the spot were sent direct to the look-up under charge ~of a Sikh Sub-Inspector and were not. taken to the Ya.kil's house nor was .any identification conducted· there." .: ... ·;cc··-
993 STARREJ? QUElSTIONS . .AND ANS:w:E.RS.
994 PUNJAB LEGISLATIV COUNCIL. [22N, i i
Ujjal Singh.] .. · . - I i i VJ What was- the- strength of the police force accorn~ ' ing
cesso.? · • ! I ( · Did the police take any action ga.inst · any of thJ pr (i · Did the Muslim leaders aeeomp nymg the procesaion ee the mob under control ? ·· : i i
e : Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : i a) S ent is aware, no speeches wer made on the night o Ma·
he. Haveli · Ka.buli Mal murde . took place. b Yes. ,
{c The decision was that of the l l ~agistrates a.nu po ,·ce o ( No, the crowd is estimated to h ve ctonsisted of b~tw 5,
0I"SOns. i . ·• I ! e) The speeches IQ.Qde have not be . re~orted. I i
So .. m. e of the riff-raff following the fun. • •. eral procession did the, c s alleged. ! · I i · ~, . · · . : I I · .". (g In addition to 4 European g zetted officers, the 1st engt poli e. orce was 2 Deputy Superintend ts,·~ Sub-Inspectors, 1 H stab es_ 153 Foot Constables, 1 Daffada and 4 mounted 1S011Ja 'S.
(h Yes,. several persons seen co 'tting unlawful apt$ ere (i) .The Muslim leaders are unders ood , to have ma~c~ed at
oft e rooession and probably the unla il f\Cts referred ~o were co out. f their sight. ; I ! l
, I LAHORE I?TS. I I
4 5. Sardar Ujjal S~h: (a) Will the Honourable the e please state the number of ca ualties that took' p e er t e-
roe 'on-of the dead bodies of the incid nt of Haveli Kab1*i M I;La ·· re 1 . . . . ~b Is. it a fact. th~t after the proc ssio4 Hindus andi Sf we in e tely attacked by the Muslim ? : · I -i .
(c)_How many deaths, as a result f the riots, took Pl~oe in e h eo t · .after the said procession ? I • I i
(d How many cases are still untra ed and who are t~e victim su h. \llitr cases ? · ' i '
.. .'. (e) Is it a fact that the· work of th inv~stigation of !h~ o se o Kab . Mal incident was transferred to the Priminal Investi . tion men om the Civil police ? I ! ; ·
Is it a fact that Syed Nur Husai Shah was in chatg~ o the i ves ·~- ati n the beginning ? I i j c ·
~ • ' I I
) What were the reasons for takin thiS. work a.way frtjm him e · Honourable Sir Geoffrey d Mo11tmorency : ! (~) If
fere c is to the number of assaults tha took place on thl:l 1¥g t of 6th f ay,.the answer is that 10 pers nswere murdered pn t · (fhe n her of persons injured on this 'ght cannot be a~cv,r ~ely
• •. ... . • . . ' . I .
: . ·• ; (b An~ber _of :mhi4~rous.ass~ult . we~~ made.on isolat . i~ · 'du s dun g tile night of the 4th-5th of )fay. In i;.i~st, ~µt :fio~ all,. J th Q eas , the · tims were Hindus and' Sikhs.· · · ·
1 Vide the footnote at page 969 CJnte. ·.
DAKHIL BAOHH.
*477. Chaudhri Ram Singh: (i) Will the Honourable the Revenue Member kindly. state whether it is a fact- · ··
(a) that there are certain lands ,in the Kangr.a 'district which art1t jointly owned by the village owners and tha.t they are Dakhil .Baehh ; · · ·
(b) that the produce of these lands is raised and divided by the owners amongst themselves and the land revenue for the same is · paid. by them;
(c) that pefore the settlement of 1917-18. these lands were entered. · 'in revenue papers in the column of "owrier1;1hip, " but sines •
· 1917-18 that column is being left blank ?
(ii) If tbe·an.swers to the above are. in the affirmative, will the Honour able the Revenue··Member kindly consider the question of making arrange.. ments to get these lands entered in future in the revenue papers as owners' property aocording to ·the old· praetiee ?
.(iii)Will the Honour~ble the Revenue Member also please state th; :reasons for the departure from the old practice ?
1Mr~ C~A. R. Townsend: A.reference bas been made to the local offi cers and on receipt. of.reply an answer .will be given.
'~' . -·· - ',_ - , . • . ' . . - c. -- . . -. . • - ,-. . -~
LAH:oRE RIOTS,
. *476. . Sardar Ujjal Singh : Will . the Honourable the Finance Member please state whether it is a fact that during the time of the riots .in. Lahc,re, the Mu.slim inhabitants in the vinicity of Gurdwara Ohaumala Sahib at Lahore opened· out new windows and doors opening into the Gur- dwal'a compound '} · . ·
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : A. Muslim of the Bhati Gate quarter made an attempt to open a window in his house over looking the Chaumala Sahib Gurdwara, but .he was prevented from doing so.
(c) The total number of deaths du.ring the disturbances was 27. Of . t-he!le, .15 were Hindus, (l Sikhs and 6 Muhammadans;
(d) · Six cases of death still remain untraced, ·the victims being 5 !Iindtt& and 1 Sikh. -.-· -, --" .· · • .
· (e) Yes . . (!)Yes.·
(g) The Lahore City police,' including the officer named, were relieved from the duty of investigation of this and other cases, in .order that they might be free to deal with the immediate necessities of the situation arising' dllt of the di_sturbaii,ces., It was also desired tro ·. plaoe a whole-time Superin tendent 9£ Police in general charge of the investigations as awhole. -
STARRED QUESTIONS .A,N:0 .A.NBWEBS.
I
fl}: {i) N~mbe:i: of proseC¥tio~s I ~~e<l ~.l\l ~ r,e~~~t .oH ~e : ~s; - Fifty-four cases ~ere se t <f()r trial. Thi~ fi e. - ~rn t
jp.~Ju~_e_ P_Jo~~cuti ns for __ di~o_ h __ .e_ clien,_ c, df <!r. e Js, i · -1r11~«l under sectio 1~; Cr.-P. b. 1 : - . ·, ·
·-.·-!· -(:< t . . ',. _'_'_••,• ···:._, ·. _- _ 1 _I
--(ii}- Numoofotcases-whicb_ -· v.iheen J.lecided so. • teen. 1
2'12 -- !
27
151 Hindu 58 Stklis. 67 Muliamma s,
1 CMsti&TL .
WoUI1ded
I i •
a) Number of Hindus; Sikhs a d Musalmans killed _ during the · riots :- i ! i
Killed · 15 Eindu : 6 Sikhs. 6 M;~a
:COTS. ill! the Honourable
ng details in regard t
L.ui:o~E -4 9. Chaudhri Ram Singh :
Me - r be pleased to supply the follo ah re riots :-
a) the number of Hindus, Sikhs nd l\fosalmans k~lled during .the riots ; 1
'
_} ('b) tbenUI11bE,1r of prosecution lau11<ilied as a res¥~ o tbes (ii) the number of cases whie have been decidedl s far
(i'ii) the number of .caaes ;bio are still pendin~; (i) the nature of offence in e oh case ; i •
(i1,) the name of trying Magis aks in each cas~ ;'. (ii1,) the natµre of punishmon awarded in eachi eas (iv) the number of the acous d community-wi$e ~ the names and number of -p · oe pfficers holding
in different cases ? · ! ·
e Honourable Sir Geoffrey A the table.
1- 1
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. Sectwn 148-, L p. a. _ _ _ - - {lf- Two accused. sentenced·
-- t to furnish _security ·of _ =-~: -~s~_~QRJR-~ee:p · peaee -
.c')= : for. 6 II1onths. · ' :(2) One:'SiCC:USed .to furnish
. : ·:L- · ~security.of_Rs. 500 to _-. - , >keep · : peace for · ~
-~.; ·.-_.- ,-::--'.J}\- __ months, . . :Bectfim -us. -i. mo. .. . .·, .. _, . .. -
; One_ ~~@e - _ .... -- _ . --. . ]Nve accused, sentenced to · ~-- · - 6 :trioi.iths'·rigorous fm.-
. _ ·-- -- ····--. -- Jj~o~e~~~-~cb~, _ · _ - . Beet.ion 804:, -Pirt 11, J. :A :.o~- -, - ,"··· : -- - · : . one case - - - - • . ·"one a.oousea. - senteneecrt~ f
-· . - ·_ .. -- , - - . -- ~ yeayi' ,: ,J.?iorous .. fut •. ; •..• _ _ _ prisoiimentf
--- . .:..:. ----
(m) nature o.f. p~bment awarded m .. eaclfease:
. . - ,.r '·-::::.
:{ii)\hiii:~tlie of the trying Magistrates-in e~h case: the-:M:agis-'· · : __ · :~·~- ~ra~~- t~g_ the cas~s. ~e -~ El_~~:p~,ns, 2 Cmtstians.,
· - , · '; ~-Jiliia~s ·®"d 3 Mus-lims.- ""' .- -~~ . ,,.. . - ~ ... -.
• • ·-··. _ - Opimi:i. Act
; ,_ : _ -: Beetion 1 ~7~ er~ P. C.
1 2 1 1 2
.;. - . l
.. _ .
" 307 ,,_;· ,, 824 " .. 325/511 .. .. 836 ,, --
,·,. 392 . " ,, 395
. " 396 -· ~· ' " ,.,. - - 464' .,
,,
.. 2 3 1 3
. ' 1 lo 15 l
,,
(iii) Number of cases.which arestill pending: (c) (i) Nature of offenceineach case:-=
SectfonJ43, I. P. C. 147
,, 147/324 ,, ;, 147/825 ,, ,, 14 7/832 ,, ,, 302
91}1
Thirty-sevek. -
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANS'WliJRS, -
Daterl, ., t1tie 1.5ti J Jtii 1~27;
_·-. qn mapyj1ccasio.na_rnemhets of tlie 't~~sl_ative- Ciiuncil hs ve expressed a. 41'1.~n:e }hat something shmild · be done PY Ub:vernment t"o encourao-e the fa-:dj~~nou~, systeJilsdi ined.foitte; and the matter Ji~s ·.engaged.the att:n:tioti qf s11cc3ssiy:e n:umstiies since t~e -~efQrJlJ.~ .were inau~ated. In i 925, it wa.s dec1p.eg._th.at Jhe.most·practicahl~ step to t!J,l,{e~w-0uld be-to. rl:ndert.ake-.re- ~~r<3ii 111; ~ndig~no!¥ ~ug~ a~d. a:~(}Aeme waJ! accqrdingly p1~eparim and fund~ :were provided m t:1i~ budget for 192~-27; The}cheme was h?wever dropped UL_ 1926. on the a,dVICe of-the Standing Committee for.Publio Realth. as it ~~~ conside:e~ _tha,t a11y wo:k t~at_ ~ould be done in _the P~njab wo~ld be :rr,,.e,:i;~ly _ d.uplicatmg_ work which 1s being clone, on a much· bigger scale than 00:uld be-._attempt09-. here, at the School of Tropical Medicin'.e at Calcutia. RefereI!<ie :was_ made to tills scheme inJ~e eourse of the budget debates. this year, a~d i1:1,.accprdance_w.itb: ,~h': ~4ertaking then given the-whole question h.~~ !tgaui ~.een_ IIl<>St carfully reviewed, _ ., _ _ _ _ 0 . __ -; ~ _ \-:: _ - ., -
-- ·c- _ By ordBi·,
_ _ J_. G. BE!ZLEY,. __ ·secretaryTo Govemment,-Pur,;}ab, :
: Transfe'l"fedl5epartments:
c - - lNDIGENQOS MEDIC.AL_ TREATMENT:
- -·. *481?. -i.alaio6 P~shad : Wf!l the Honourable Mlllister for Local :Seif-Gove~nme:ht be pleased to state whether the Government are prepared ~ifp:fomote and e:hco_U:rage indigenous ~edic11l treatment? !fit is so,' will l'te be pleased to state the aetfon-takerfduting the fast 2 years in this - respect ~
. the· $~ciur~l,I~ Malik Firq~ Kb-, N<i~n' : The lioriourafile mem !ber is. referred. to the -stat~meiit which has been circulated to all members ofthe bolli:tcil. . - - -
- . -TlieJollo~i'rtg ;;t~t~~ertt oHh-e views ofthePunjaG Govei:$ent (Ministri -0(Local SEM-Go.vertµIl~}on Jhe. subject oftfte enciouragemerit _o~ indigen~- ·OUS ilysfe!llil M medicine is -oiroulated to all members of the )jegislative Council,_ :fol' inforn:u1illion.· - - . - - . - . - -- - -
-FACIL~TlES Td ;.AMINDARS FOR MAKING AGRIOULTUR.AL IMPLEMENTS. -
- *481~ Chaudhri Ram Singh : Will the Honourable the · Revenue Member be pleased to state the number of trees given gratuitously by_the FO!'ElEt Department of Kangra- to iamindars of each tahsil of ~~e Kangra distrfot fm: making agriculturalimpl9ments ever since the abolition of the Civil Forest Department in the Karigra district ?
- . 1Mr. c, A. H, Townsend: Enqlriries are being made as to whether the mf6rmation is available. : ·
'l'litf Honourable ·Mr.: Mailoliar Lal : - A label writer has--aire11dy been 11,ppointed- to writ-a the labels for the exhibits in the Museum, in English, Urdu, Ri~di 1Nagri) and Giirmukhi, _
- • As. regards the Z00 the matter is under co:risideratiort.
991) _ ~. - STAitii:EiD -QUESTIONS AND' ANSWERS.
I -
-
P{)'NJAB I,EGISLATI
is nothing toshow that they have to pay more tllan. is charged by indigenous practitioners of the same standing and ability, and it'is well-known that the foes demanded: by the cm.oat famous hakims and vaids are noCgenerally
· f!maller than the fees demanded by western specialists. Of course if com: parison is ma-de between the charges of assistant surgeons or sub-assistant surgeons· who visit patients at their houses and the charges of those entirely
· · uneducated persons who pose _- as hakim« and vaias,. thB charges of the latter • will appear much less ; hut it is admitted by the advocates of the indigenous
systems that it is not this type of nakim or vaid that is wanted but _ men trained in regular teaching institutions and practising one or other of ihH indigenous -systems properly, and there is no reason ·to believe that .me11 turned out by. such institutions . will be content with lower . fees -than prao-. titfoneis of western medicine. _ So far as -cost to- __ the people is-- concerned it is therefore iwt. true that the indigenous systems· can· be elieape.i. <G:t the report submitted to the Government of the. United Provinces it is, how (;)ver, 'not only the ,cost to the people but also the cost to the State that lS eonsidored.: anlState support of the indigenous systems was advocated on the ground that the provmce could not possibly-afford to provide western: medical relief an· the scale on which medical relief was required. In 'the Punjab there.is every reason to hope that it willbe possible to make western medicalrelief easily. available to all, but even if it w~re adinltted fodhe sak{): ,of_ argument that there wer~ no such hope, there is little reasqn for· assuming tha-t · the provision - _ of indigenous medical rehef would- be appreciably- chei),pe:r, It is agreed that. the. indigenous praetitioners must learn to· practice surgery ; . they will therefore require operating rooms· and equipment on the same aesle as western praoµtioners; ~nd unless it .is to be admitted' that any sort :of-premises however insufficient or insamtary are. good_ enough for _ · indigen ous. practitioners, all tlie. rest of the dispensary .bnildings, _ quarters, etc., wilFb:ave 'to be on-just the _ same scale as at western institution,s_. Jt is over
. the teaching_iustituticius t}iat a saving can be made; and a c.Qmparison _ of .the _scale of· expenditure in.,- for example, _ the Madra~ .-and ,Bihar and Orissa . indigen.0111, _ institutions wit4 oo,rresponding _ institntioll.f;! _ teaching western•
. n;i-edioi1l,e shows that the saving if.real_ and oousi4t1rable ... ~ut how is t4is - .aavfn.g effected f First;" by. giving far smaller -~1~ries to . tlle ~tructorF( -and ;seoou<l.Iy,-by reuuoinKthe .co~sironnstru.otion to three fe11.rs~_ rt oan-. -not:-howeyer-lie supposed·_that. tb.ejil_ciig_enous instructors_ will: ba.content" forfo~g- tQ_ reIIJ.ain iu;a; posittoJ!. of patent inferiority intbf) matter_ Q;f pa)'lllent. ior"th.eirservfoes to their western eonfreres; nor is it aasy.t~·li_n<l. an.yjustifica: tfon._fm: ther(Jductio:nfa>the leilgthof the period of_trainjng. _ Such reductio-u. ia__:qgly possibl9. becau.B_ff Ill_erely. tb._e elements ·of~th11 f!Ub)!)C~~ Which;_ it.ts ad lllitted, .Il'.l_~:sA bet3:k.en from _western medicine areJa11gp.t, put wl:t.y suo1Ild the" -State_ agr~e that 9ue~c_la~sc>f medical praqtitioners:i:1.e~d onlyJJ;ayi'l a_~matt<1ring __ ,of knowledge 9f certain subjects while- the p11rallel class must Rave~~-· proper knowledge ot'~thelh ? t .Wny-sholild a ma-n merely hecause .• };le )ialls. himself . haki?n or·roi<Lbe·anowed to endanger bhe-livesofhis patients by unskilful 'Surtery~ 'while_; tne ?tate· roqmes that the man -wlfo calls himself doqtpr' - mus} r(tceive SllOh training as will reduce such danger,_ SQ far. as i°s- possible r If - however," thB same standard of proficien¢;}\ is demanded" of p:ractitioners -
. of th0jn.dig~noils. syswrqs~iis is· d_ema_n'<lecl of practi{io:ners ot western }iystem, z the •_ .claJw '. -of op.eapn,ess ::-on· behalf 6£ the f_tmner . sy~teJ'.!1-S Will no longer . be·.·. rnaintmnable; · · --.. c-' - · - - · ,- ~--- ~
10)1: ST.A.R:Q,_ElD- QtTESTIONS AND ANSW;ER_S;:
I I .. i ·i I I
·I 1- r. -·::+ .
-i i I I. I
I I l ,'. I
·l- 1
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I · 1-··
1 l
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•
, . . *483. Lala Joti. Parshad : Will. the . Honourable Minister for Looi1l ~eU-Gove1nment be . pleased to state the_ places where Jt edio-and UnanJ A'l,l.$hadhaliyas and Matabs have been established. in the Punjab by the: local bodies ? _ __ · ,_ ------·?- . _ _ _
VEDIC :AND UNANI AUSB.4DHALiY.AS A.ND_ MAT.ABS. -·--:
Jt_is admitted too tha,t rhe practice of western medicine in India may require · ina.Jl.Y. modifications to -: suit it to· Indian. conditions. There ~may ·be m,any more drugs used by indigenous practitioners which eonld wit}rndvantage h$ used by western praetitioners and western medicine may .have much to
_leal'Il from the indigenous systems .as to treatment, diet., etc. India can ··iiridoubtedly make valuable-contributions to western __ medicine and _it is the - aim of Government to do what they can to make th_s Punjab'.s contributign i as effective as --possibl~; For the moment the Tnspecto:r-G-eneral of Civil "Hospitals and. the Principal of the Medical Collegehave beer: asked to report '-:what steps can be taken to initiate research in indigenous drugs which will
_ not duplicate ··work being done in Calcutta and research with regard tQ - therapeutics and dietetics; - The· scale· on whichsuch -reaearoh can be eon-
duoted must of course depend on the extent to which funds are available, Government consider it to be their Jirst duty-fo complete their existing 'programme for the expansfon, of medical rdief so as- to bring it within .reasonable. reach- of all: the -funds available for research must therefore consequently be redueed at first, -but it will be the. constant 'endeavour-of Government t<? ensure . that all that is valuable in -the-indigenous systems of medicine shall be bto1)gh:t to the notice of those practising western medicine in this province, and in this endeavour Government would e!'.llist the co~ operation of all who believe that India can still, as in the past, make valuable· contributions to science. In western countries the philanthropy .of indi viduals has done mueh for medical research, and no worthier object can be-
.reoommended to the generosity of patriotic Punjabis, 8. This statement would not.be complete- without reference to tbe
'requests that_ have been made to. Government to legislate for the registration -of- practitioners 'of indigenous systems. The Punjab Tibbi Conferenoe have requested Government to · establish. a· _body - which . shall. have power to :register such practitioner~ and to prohibit the practice .of the indigenous.
:systetns except by persons on the· register. Government 'however feel that :the time- has not yet come for any such legislation by Government. No
- where Inthe world are people prohibited by law from practising any systen( of medicine they like, and there appears to be _no jus_tification .for enacting .sueh a: law: __ in tl:iis 'province in respect of practitioners - of the · indigenous, .systoms, -vvhile as regards .msre. registration it would be premature to set -up ~any- body as a registering authority until a. body can be found whioh , has established itself in public opinion 'as a -fit and proper body to be en· trusted ~th such authority. " . >- .s,. ,It will tbu~ be __ seen that for the present Government contemplate,
- only" .the eneouragemenf of research in the indigenous systems:; Further enquiries are,: however,_:being made and it may yet be found- practicable
- and desirable to utilize the~ services of hakims · and 'Vaids in spheres· in which western medical reliefeannof be in:a-de_._.available for many years to come.
lOOS -STARRED .QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
1 Pages 103 37 in~ra.:
"pal . ulJ,
•l PUN.1.A.B LEGISLATI E OOUNOIL. [ 22
e Honourable Malik F°U'oz Kha:n, .Noon: ThJ . olleeted and will be supplied tot e h?ourable me1brr
INDIGENOUS AUSHAD LI~AS AND MA~A~S
* • Lala · Joti Parshad : Is t e Honourable Mims er 'Se - ovemment aware that the medi al department ofl the. · s
· bn d has tried to handicap the pro ess pf · the indigenous aus a:n tabs during the last year by o ening new dispen~atie at wh r there were already indigenous us~ltaliyas an, ~ bs s the triot board ? ! ; ! -
e Honourable Malik Firoz I ?ifoon : No.I J · I . i
I , I INDIGENOUS MED CAL ! INSTITUTION~. j
* • Lala · Joti Parshad : w· the 1 Honourable ~ni ter - overnment be pleased to state hethsr he is prep,r~d o ni
.. genons medical institutions ope ed by the local b~di~s . e.Honourable Malik Firoz .an,Noon: The hoi!io abl me er
i$ r f ed to the answer given to unst e~ question Nol I 3~2 . I I
V AIDS AN HAkIMs. • I · * 6~ Lala Joti Parshad: (a) Ist~eHonourable:riili "star 'Sel.· - o.ve~nment _aware that the distric board, Hissar, his r,a sed No 5 in its meeting .held on 11th Fe ruary 1927 .• on t ejre om of t e Civil Surgeon, Hissar, that no aid ~nd no haki ! el.plo dist i t board aushaiJ,haliya and mat bs i~ authorised toi u e · l.i ike t rmometer and. st.ethos. cope a.nd edi~in. es like tin¢ture iodi
. · ( } Is the Honourable Minister a are that only tho~e !va 'ds a :ea . b employee. in fhe district boar aus~haliya anll. k tabs :fpll qualified -- tlie*1,eelves,-vide ocal
1 ~elf-Goverrritn n
~O 2 5~7, elated 6thpe~ember 192 and '3,S;S?Ch they rr~ f y _ to s simple Europe~n metruments a d medicines ? 1 ! · _ e~Honourable. Malik Firoz an~. Noon: (al. ~h :ii.· a in reported t~at the v~ids '.1-t th indigenous hosp~t~1e ain the b ard were usmg · surgical _ instru en* and allopa~hic rugs the . - ow nothing, the district board resolved that these' V ids S be e mitted to dispense European med ieines or use surgidalin tr mts, - ·
~ .! . I ;
... - ( ) Government-are aware that th rules forbid the ~nipl ym t by ·s- . . tri t oards of vaids or hakisns who ha e.not certain spe~ifie qua · eati ns. _Th r is nothing in the rules ~i~her t .anthoriz« .or- eo ~i$al ow t e -us. --of Eu o ean instruments and medicines b such-peraone. · ! .: .· ·;
- . . l. - -
KAsUR M'uNICI AL QoMMITTEE. ! . . . . ' . I '
487. Lala Bodh _!uj: ( i) Will the Honoura ble t1e Mi overilment please state :- I I
• I (a) if it i13--afact that an €nqui y into the affairslo]
. · · · Cbtn~e w~s -condu ted frt 'October a,t P. c. s., . I
is i.
-- " -::·
, :~-...-,.;.~r· ·:· .. . :·:.-:.:::.~:.
-\ ,.
0~7::{,,;, ,•<->•~~~~J~~1J11~~~~t~~~;t:;·0,ts:r·· .: =.-t .,; ~ ~~;.: (j) if it. js-·a f!),O't that tlfr~_-proprietor .of the j:ce ~cto:ry· is a. ~'!llllCipal-.
-,t~/:\:• - · ..
. ·:.._.•,
. {b) 'ilit is a f~~ that the repoft>~f t1i~ St}i({ offie~{J;~V~~led- a: very · __ :' ·.:-unsa;tisf~ctQI"Y state of ,ajf~ oit~~i,c~fl):roi~t~; _ . ,
if ;it is a. fact "tha.t. the said report was~approved by - the -Deputy / __ ..• . _ · Com:rajssi~ner an~-_the Commissioner~-Lahote ;- - - -~--- ~- .. i .. :~,
?~;;;~_:_(d)·it' i~ is ~ .;(acj; thaff tJ:re muajci:pa_l ·oo~ttee:~ _fa~edi;? ~- :~-- -_. - ~.-:~:,'-.'_--_-_··_·:~-_-oat the·.reforms _anggeste-d ~ the_npo_rt oft'1:te mvefeti_gatm( -~: ~~ _
,:·?3} - _:~~-(jt)-Il M!;i;i:iart (d) a"bove b~.i~,the_tt~m:ivi,-ril tli~lfonom-~::\}~. -_):"-:,\};:' ;_/·::: ·:·l_._-. ~le Minister pleas.a st_ate what action he piopo~s to take against the com":' ·C - : • - ::.,:.s\
~l;if 1:;_-_._._._1_i).~_r_,~.~---:~if~_}_;_F_._~:;~~-··-·-·-•_-_:._ :_•-ft-~~rh_f_r_~:;t · · {/:~;:{ .. , _. \V .L V.::J - - -- .- <i ;·:;'(_· 1 ·-. ., . -~··.·, .
_:: _ -: _\>-,'.· Jc,Jes, _ _ _ _ _ .. _ . . · ,:: _.:-f:\t .-.- , , - _·_.::if·~.- .: : . • (d} ~ei committee has_ B.ppointed .an offi<,iial -~i;eta.ry· for f()JU' -
~ -~}t:~~:-;--.,~:J ;i;;;: ~:~:;;~_the -~f~ts point~ o~t._7~(_~: ·;''. - - __ " _ · .. -_-,:::: '.}::·-~· ,·_<ft _ _ ,-_...._.~.-_,"; __ c; ·:: -(if,,)-~ tnarep<>rt is"long_, :Government a;e . .t1qt wilijng to lay a.-00py ot -'"t':-~- ~--_ '"~"
1·,----h/\ it~-pn-_the· t_~ble :Out~fcop.y will'~e supplied to -iji~ Jjon~mra;We me,mber j"!~ · >:-=-~ __ >.:,·:··.::.:·.~·~·,:.-:. ~~-~:2:':~/:: . . - :· .· .. ·._ .. 7.·,--:-·,.·
. 's: <'-,, }~~~<!,:,,: (oJ'iUt'-ii a faet'that_a SiE!cimen of'thei<te:maitufactured ·by tl,,e'locaF > .. ~-~- ·.-···-'·
PUNJAB LEGISLATIV COUNCIL. ( 22N Ju i :
. ADDITIONAL POLICE FOR E FOR LAHORE. I ; . * • ShaikhFaizMuhamrnad (a) Will theHono~abfeth
Me b r kindly st.at. e. if it is. a .. fact .t. hat .n a~. ditional police i. f.·rce_ em fo ed for Lahore f9r a period ofs · months ? I '
. ( Hthe answer to (a) is in the a mative, will the Bono abl t;1tat , he correct rium.ber ·of newly em loye~ Hindu, Sik4 an M :eta . , head comstahi.es and sub-inspe tors? · i !
(c Under which of the above co munal groups do! tl:\.e Gur .ino ial I?apers ? . l ; j !
- ( Will the Honourable Member ki dlyistate :- I : (i) the reasons for the prepo derance of Hindus! a· d S hs d
. ·· paueity of Musalmans in he new recruitmJntj; 1 (ii) wheth. er. ·th.· e attenti~n o. f t e G. : •. o.·v· ernment h11si .. b en. i it·e··~ to
the resentment which the preponderance of Hin us d 81 hs in th_e new recruitmenth -s·~used among thf usli. of he province ; ! • 1 !
iii) whetherthe Government is a arelthat the Hindujpr ss is ttrib t- .·. · ·- ing the. inauguration .of t · s nt3W policy to it}ie ustice .of he
complaints of Hindus ag inst the diligen4e: a d h esty of . police force posted at La ore (luring the riot$ ?
e HonoJll'able Sir Geoffrey eMontmorency] : ! I re . wer to this question is not ye reiidy. It will jb~ om e honourable member when· read . ! : ,
• ~ I I ,
QUALIFIOATIONS. FOR E-MPL YMiiiNT IN POLI E j F ROE
. * .~ Shaikh Faiz Muhammad : (i) Will th~ II nour le .Fin n e Member kindlv state :- ! • I i
(a) the standard of suitability d ejfficiency for en:ipl yme police force ; .. ! • i i
(bJ whether. the Government is sati~fie~ that thej Hi dus .. _ . satisfy that stand~d r i_ . . . I j . -
(i) Will Government consider t e suitability of poa~1 t em lo· ed Hindu constables and head onstables at Velfod a d S poll e stations in Dara Ghazi Khan istrict and Isa tKhel in distit? . I ! 1
. . . . e Honourable Sir Geoffrey eMo;:ii.mi,reney :[ ~i) (a) S
,of s . ability. and effi. cienoy for Val. ·io s ser.vic· .•.• es in the p. du···li· .. c. ~.. De are · en in Police Rules 11. 7, 11.1 , 111 .12, 11.13 ~n~ ppe (V e II). ·· · I ; I 1 ·
() Yes. 1
• ! :
. " ( i) Is not understood. If the h nourable member : · 1 kin .his m aning clear, I will endeavour to nswer this part of! his uest
haikh Faiz Muhammad: I refe to the question ~s su mitt h Council office. SoI11e words s m t;o have been jotni ted t at is why the.qµestio:ri is vague. I !
. _ .. _ ~ Honourable Sir Geoffrey eM~ntmorency ~ )I -dar .• e;.;:t~~t .. q. u· .. i .. 00 ce. r. tain as to w at 4'. ac. t informa,.i°f. . he h 'f""' hie
liaikh Faiz Muhammad : I sug ested that thesel Hi du ~ta les :mi h - be posted to the places menti ed ~n the questipn i ord • ~~ I
!
1 P.-il.ges 970...,;.972 ante. , a.page 986 ante. . _ _ a Vol; Vlll-B, pages 1167-11~1 and page cii:li, AppE'D.dix VIIL ·
~. -· Rom PROGRAMME. · ·
, . . ~492. --Lala M~lwi Lai: Will the Honourable Mibister for Agrioul· ·iure be· pleased to state the rood programme for the' next five· yea.rs?.
-· . . __ .. .,._,,.. ' . - . ' . ·-- . . >) . The Honouraole Sardar Jogendra ·Singh·:. (l).The':second insW· :ment, of the road reclassi:f;ica.tion scheme, by which a further milea.ge of 324 miles of metalled roads and' 7 54 miles of unmetalled · road are .proposed to be
·"taken 'over by the Public Works Department, isi lllldei consideration. No '«iefinite programme for the next five years has been laid downrbut the Public Works Department hope to metal approximately ·.· 100 miles,. of road ea.ch :
_year, provided the necessary funds are granted by the Collr.\cil; ~: _ -~- ~ ". (2) The programme of _metalling class I roads ·repres~ts aU::.that the
~province._ can · afford· as a. whole; and must; even when all · are meta.lied,_ leave .3bont eighty per cent, of om. toads UUineta.llecl. It is 'believed that: th·e public will benefit more from the improvement and proper maintenance of
· ten miles of unmetalled road, than from the . provision of. the· one- mile of .metalled road that could be secured for the same outla.y, and fwicfs for the ~D.itenance of which in the future are, in view _"Of "the h~vy d.Einlalld~- UP9ll
. cljs.trict_ __ boards, _ problematiea], . This policy is . ~ubjoot to _r{lcon!\ide~.\i~ ¥ter "the proposed. revie-w o.f. th~ need~ ~' :finances of district bo~ds~ •-'. ·. .
..-~.- ..
NEir APPOINTMENTS IN THill PRoviNciii. AN.D:SuBOR~};i~i Enu- 'CATIONAt Slimvicii. - · - · -
*491. Shaikh Faiz Muh~rnrnad:: Will the Honourable the Minister .f9r _Educatio:rrkindly state ::--: •:, _ . . ·.· _ __ . · _ _ _ _
.(a)_ The number of_ new appointments made _in t_he .Prcvincial Edu- . cation Service and in Rs. 200-10-250 and Rs.140-10-190
of the subordinate ~ducatiop .setyice, sepljXately' in connection with the opening of the new:Interriiediate eqlleges 8't Rohtak arid Hoshiarpur and the extention. 9£Ludhiaµa,'Qollege;
(b) _how_:many··of.these appointments i'ia:ve l:ieetiJffied·by Hihdu1b · . _ · -Sikhs, Christians and Musalmans; . _ ._. ·
(e) tlie names. and qualifications of.th~- Musalinans':who appli~ . , . for these posts and have not been appointed ? : _ ._
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal:. -(a)- ·,rhe honourable member .isreferred to the answers to Council questions Nos: 417Fiiid 4521• ,_ ·
· (b) and. {e) 'Phebonourable member is referred to the general .answer .givento C?u11cil questions Nos .• 1961-753, · _ . _ _ .. ·
l ' - ~
. - . ,. The H011ourahle Sir . Geoffrey deMoi.~orency : Whaf l!indu vonstO.bles does the·honourable member refer to?-··- .. --~-- .
. .Shaikh Faiz Mrthamrnsd : The constabl~~(xiewly recruited air Lahore~ · The Hoiaowable Sir · Geoffrey deMontinorency ·: Mos{ . of th!i .
. -eonstables recruited at Lahore only agreed to serve in the additional police .ior a temporary period and it is na--certain whether they will desire to -eontinue - to serve in the police after· the temporary period is over. The "qu~stion of .postTng them to other .distriets "cannot at the present 'moment be considered. · : .' :~~l,J~:!:-~~=._·:~-
1007 STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.·.
I.
• I
PUNtTA13 LE~ISLATIVE OOY,liCIL. [ $2ND Ju~
. R ··• Sardar Jogendra Singh.] 1 I j
· S) As regards class II roads tµe p · cy js to encrum$~ id· }pc~ p t ._heir class II nnmetslled roads . to *oper repair, ~<!, o m .fil a -
_uat . ro\Tisicm and arrangements for t eir II1.aintenance~ ~~for •. yµ~ . i,dd 01!~ ~fi!\Iled mileage, __ . ,_ ·---1- · -- · rr ----
' • I . - - AMBALA C~T NM1*T BOARD. ! I .
Lala Mohan Lal: Will e H6nourable the) ]pi nee tate:- , I !
• . i . ' ! '
al whether the Government is warti). that under i s~ct on · the Cantonments Act th regulations framed y a
ment board should be pub · hed ' in such m4nne as t Government may direct'; I • I I
) the manner of publication t Government he.Ii ~ ted or t e.. cantonments of the Punja or fpr 'the cantonbi~n of bala ;
. ~ .. Qrwti~~fei!:~n~~=:~;\t~ a:o;)!t~; tto.f r~t\5 r -:~ : .dated th~ 28th January 1925, 1 directed Jt~e cant under its jurisdiction to p blish the regulations nd by affixing copies of the sa e iri the vernacul~r!of the at the oon.tonment autho ty notice board ~nd t ot spieuous places and by pu ishirig the same~ t~e local an.· .~ ~a.pars having oireula ion in. the cantonp1n and
. ola.mung the same by bea of drum ; J _ i . d} if t~e procedure of publics ti n sfa ted a hove I h's een
., - - m Ambala. Cantonment ; _ I i I
I e). whether the Government . is wa~e, :that the ioopl of
have a legitimate grievan in having not seenj t e re 9f the cantonmeiifboard · th~ vemacular Qf ~h pro
whether it is a fa.ct that owin to the defective ~tlb catio _,., regala.tions, no objections or suggestions wGrt ceiv
the people of Ambala ; I l w,!iether h~ intends ~o_ notify a gehetal procedu e: £ pu ·flll,ti, .~·
as is contemplated by sec ion li4 (3) of thel Cjm onni ts .J ~ and return the regulations of A;mbala Cantop.tjte t Bo rd f :r·
- - . republication in that m er? I I I
e Hono~ahle Sir Geoif.tey Mo~tmorency :J {a) Yes. The attention of the honourabl meniber is invited. to . e 1 of t e
lished with Punjab Governm nt qotification Np.! 3 70".S, da.t q SeptemberJ924, which prescri es publication in th~ unja Gaz · ·
I 1. ·
'. :Yes. It is reported that the :ngiqal regulatioJs l.w e ,~ t 15f-~~ board 'for the purpose o in~ting objecti.o*s,i t 9u~. co . e ~as JJ,ot ·necessary .. Subseque t alllendments we~e - ho:w .pub "i_ ~ looolly. The regu1ations were ls.o published, in t'.lia 1!!nj wi tification No. 13149, dated th 27th April 1927, ! _ d fc,rc - the 12th .J~e"1927. I i I i
, I . I
!
I
,AMBALA-0,\.NTONMENT. BOARD,
*495. Lala Mohan Lal: .Will the Honourable the Finance Membeif be pleased to state :-
( a) whether he isaware thatin.the Ambala Cantonment Board meet ingheldin January 1927, the President, Col. D. Deane, allowed one Miari Khan to address the meeting objecting to the con struetion ofa building of his neighbour;
. - ~ . . - . . .
. ~· _ (b). whether it is• a fact that this action oi the President, was protestetf · against by the non-official Vice-President as being illegal and±'
on his protest a reference was made to the N orthsm Bommandt for a ruling on the subject ;
(<,) whether he is aware that on this reference, the Northern Oo:r;nma,nd in its letter No. 86264-l (L. 0.). dated the 10th February 1927. laid down that no one who was not a member -of the board had a right to address the :meeting ; .
{¢) w:hetµer he is aware ~hat contrary to this ra.ling, tb,e .Ambala . - Qa:µtonment Board has hy majority· passed Jlegulation ~ o .• ~1~
per;rµiJting per~~~ not members of. lhe. cal,\tq~~nt b<>~,
AMBALA CANTONM~NT BOAl,'l,D.
*494.. Lala-- Mohan Lah Will the Honou.ra.ble the Finance M:ember be pl~sed to state :.:_ · · · · -
• (a,) whether he is aware that the District Magistrl}te, Ambala., ha S;
nominated the Cantonment Magistrate, Ambala Oa.riton.rrien.W as his representative·. on. the Oa.riton.ment . Board, Amb al11,-: under sectioI\ 14 (1) (b) of the Cantonments Act;
(b) whether heis aware that -inb.fu ·capacity as a member of the can- . tonment board, the Cantonment Magistrate is a party to the
sanction of all. prosecution sanctioned by the cantonment board under the Cantonment Act; ..
(c) whether it is a fact that the same Magistrate tries all the cases go;, launched by the cantonment boa,rd and this µwo.lveSa. breach of a standing principle of the crim.in.al la.w that the person sanctioning a prosecution. should not hear itjudieially ;
- · (d) whether qe would consider the advisability of directing the removai · - · of this defect ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey. deMontmorency : . (a) Y ~s. (b), (c) and (d) Government have no information and a reply will be-
furnished on receipt of · the Deputy Commissioner's report.- , ·,
(e) No, I\S the regulations are business regulation.a; as ~11oh they; coUOE!rIL tile. ~d and not tp.e public. .· , , · !
' (J) Th.ere was no defect in the publication of the r~gulatjon.s and the opj~ticm. talren. by some of the non-official · me.mbers: of the board ~o the ID~:tyier of publi~tion was con.si4ered. to be witho~t subs~ce. ·
(g)-Does ngp l)pse.
100!}c , ' 1 r STARRED QUEl:ITIONS AND ANSWERS.
•
If I I
, Noon: Th~ fl res ue course with tile a~ual committees for !926r .
I
d 4~ (i i) expenses under ..Heads 14, 9 a
Honourable. Malik Firoz , a. a· able; they will.be published in
. th . oootmts and ret:urns of municip
I i i .
I
(i) income from rates and taxes; ' ' r · '("i) income under Heads XXIV-1 2, 3, and XXV-1, 2, 8 an
J, 2, 8 ;
I I
OOMMlTTEES AND POIJIOE OR OHAlf.KfD I CHARGES. I I
I • ! . Lala Mohan Lal : Will the onourable the 1\1linist r fo o ernment be pleased to state =--:-: . j i . ( ) the number of the municipal cor$littees that i h~v
police or ehaukidari charge even now ; 1 i ( ) _ the reason fo:Fthis in . the fac . ~i; the Goverruln~nt
.instructions in this respect ? . i :
T e Honourable Malik Firoz Kb n, Noon: (a) Thitt -five
P-UNJAB LEG1sLAT1v oo'Q'N01L. · 1010
· to speak in the meeting f the majori.ty of the members so desired; i
. ·• !
() whether he is aware that ther is a. standing majori y of · members in the cantonmen board and the regula. ion · tion would praotically m empowering th!) offi.~ial • to allow persons, not - me hers of the cantdnm.It b • . k • •• . • . ! I · spea m its meetings ; · : • • i ,
: : I 1 whother, under the circumsta . es Government 'Yill. e pl
consider the desirability of dis~pproving _ thej r~ . ti . Honourable ·sir Geoffrey· d Montmorency : I l T ·reg. e er to this question is not yet r dy, It will be do '. · · uni
· urable member. as soon · as pos ble.: I I
!
.-
CLINIOAL ASSISTANT, KING EDWARD'S MEDICAL COLLEGE, LAHORE.
*499 •. Lala .Mohan Lid: (i) Will the. ·Ronourabl0 the Ministe» fo11 , LooaJSelf-Govet:nnient be pleased to statewh(}ther the post of Clinical Assi~ ·ant to the Professor of Clinical Medicine· 'in the · King Edward's Medioal College. Lahore, has been filled up ? ·
If the reply to the aoove- bsin the affirmative, will he be pleased to stlde ·Ute name of the gantl eman appoint~alli)wt qualifications ?
. ( ii) (a) . Will the Honourable Ministe;· be-pii~;ed to lay .on the table a ·statement of the qualifications of all the _a pplieents for this post ?
(b) Will he also state if the gentleman selected for the post was selected ·for the reason that he was the best qualified amongstbhe.applieants ? _ If not, will he state in full the reasons for appointing the present incumbent '1 .
(iii)_ 'fill the Honourable the Minister be pleased-to sta.te if it: is a fact_ ~_t o._n13 of t4,e~_applicants for this post was an ,M. R. C. P ., London, which is
.J I
('.·-
·-'-"'
AllBALA CANTONMENT BoiUU>. · _;·. L :'-', . · · ~ ~ _;;: ... - LahL Moh~Lal :·.wm'the-Hoiiorirallle:ihe°Finance Memb&?--
t,e pl~ed to_jta.t~ :~ - · - -
0(a) Jf he is' aware that the Cantonment Boord~ Amba.la, has ·i31 _j~~::: . meeting of the 28th January 1927,_ by a majority of votes, so
-. amended the I"egolatioris as to lay the papers ·pertaining to the · · agenda of a meeting on the table. two _ da.ys before the date . at
.:, •• ::.. -c, • meeting instead of four days a.s previously agree~. to by "'·- .;.,,.. _:. - all the membersr; - . . . . - :.:_:- ::::~,:;,;; (b) whether he is awe,ridhat this amendment was "opposed byib:r~i. '
out of five non-official members present,. on the ground t1:tat·· · . .two de,ys• time was qmte insuffioient · and th~_amentQ'.!1-ent · pto·
. posed madelt virtually impossible for the non-official membe?B- to see the papers ; · _ _ · ·
- (c)whe_thedt is a fact that this amendment has riot been published" - - · - - -- · for objeebions, as required by section 44 (8) of the Cantonments
Act;·····- - · (d) whether Government would consider the question of rejecting ·th'i".'
- , amendment - and retaining the original regulation· or· direeting tbat it should be published for publicobjections, as required l>.Y~
.,,. · · · - sectio':1144 (3) of the Cantonments Act ? · . The Honourahle Sir Geoffrey deMoii~otency: (a) Yes, a.t t\
ueeting held on the. 28th - February 1927. -
(b) Yes~ (c) Yes, but previous publication is not necessary. ' The regulations
· were duly published with Punjab Government notification No. 18149, ·:.iJ&tea the 27th April 1927; and no objectionwas received. ·
(d) No, besides, Government have no power to interfere with the board's discretion jn the matter, as the approval of Government is required. -0nly 41
. ·the ease of those regulations which are made by ~ board under clause (1}of ,sub-section (1) of section 44:"of the Cantonments Act. 1924:.
1011-~ __ ST.ABRPJD QUESTIONS -AND :A::NSWEBS.:
--.,.-_-..:..-.-· -:./~<
-- -·-- ; : ·~ .. ~~:;. APPL-iOATIONs:° Ji'OB-Oo:ex:ms OF Jtinxo:c~- ~EOOBDS~: ."' :::: ~
... - -, -*$00. · .. Lala _Mohan tel:-. {i).,Will_the:'l:Eon.9utab~e~tM Jilin~~C~ .1\!~iii~ <bar be pleased; to state how .many urgEJnt a.pplici!,tfons :fofcopi~s qf judicial .~~()liq :with:Re~.l~.fee,wera:'recmvedin. tne'D~strict:(Jotirfs' at_.Ludhiana.;-
Fer~J::~;5rui,~m-;:'~~'~Ppli:~'-~'~:;'f~,;~. \' ::~=t~~:,J:'fJ,iho~, . . ; :.able meinoer will ~tate to'What period his question relat:es, steps will lje taken to_ eolleot.the info_~l!itt~:i;i._£eq1*~:-~-.:.:>,.--"- _ . __ ·: -,· :: __ _ ·. _
=, {-_;::_:~:~-~:.: . .:.:;.:.._··-:' -·~--'-- --~ ~..;_:-~.,":'- ..:.-:~.;.-:_·-~_;..~,:_:-::C.-~-,_ ...... __ -:.: . ..]_,; .. ~.·--:~:-.,,.;~~"'.'"~ -~:.....- - :.: .. ., ~ '.''·;;·:· .. ~-..::J,;;::~:~:.~t;{:.'.:.::'. : :- ~:. ·. - .:.:
··~ ·. ·---- ... _~ .=. - .
r
.,-.---......:..~--·~~--~-__:-~-....:;..;.;...;~_..;;.;;.;.......;._..;._..._ __ ..,..... .. ~ ....... -'----''--'--,..;._--,_____. .......... ~-'- -
M:.B:, B.S, (Pun!al,). - . P.O.lf.S.· ~London). ··
· - F,R.C.S,E. . 24 .nr:li~rnandLa)i&ti;a- .: - ~---~-
.,:,.·., _,..·_
· -<,- :21 Dr; Ghulam Mqbammad:-;
22 · Dr. Brnarsi ])alls s.kt: < · · 23 ))t. J; N. Lixthia -
... ---"
. - .. M.13,;B:S/(~jabj.:
. 1\1. J)>(PiinJao}, .• · .
• _. 1\ui,.1:fs. (Pnpjab)i
. ' . ai;is: -CPtillj&b):_ --- - .
..- M.lt,--B:S~_
· ·19 Dr.~ Raj, Chopra _•/
- '20 · Di:-. Ragh'bir Singh, P.C.M,-!3/ -
c . _'.18·: Dr, ViR~~N&th;_P.C .. M:.S.
. ; . lf.:S./~ B • . - - · B.A.O.
M.:s;, B.S. (Pnnjab). .
.lL'n-,; B.Sj (BombS:y)/ .
'l\ti3., B.S. (PunjabJ; ', ' ._ I> •. P.H.;-' D.'J'.M •. ·~. H'.
- (Can:ab.J. , ·•. .. . _ .• • -.M.B.,_Ch. B. (Edinburgh):.
... ·-~· 14 _ Dr. J~a.t Ra.Ill, :Qhatiil. f? _=ti>' :nl)~~-~iligh . . :16 lli, S. B; Puri
- -1'7 . Di-. s; Bindra. • ....
... · ::_,_._,.
?,;LB., Ch.B; (Li~rpoqlt ,f,.KC;P. \Lori.dim.) ·•·• . - - Jd. R. C. S, (Engl,tnd). C D. T •. M. (Liverpool). ·· · D •. P. · :Er. (Liveri,ool).
- l'iL. D;,_ (Li ve:rpool-). · • • :~J3.S. (Dn:f!>a.Ii.)l --lt"J). . -
• . .'_12 Dr~,S. S. Sbri Kan~ ·.r:-'.'".'?'~ / . .', --'. - .• - --'.·
PUNJAB L;EOJSJ.ATIVE OU!oTCILe [ ~2fD JtJL I :
·. -: hr M ban Lal.]" . . ! : ( ) whether it is a fact that the resent Deputy <Jo · issio
- allowed the slaughter of an mala and sale o. ~e t in , . dhri town this year ; : : i
( )_ whether the Government is a re that this actidn of the put - Commissioner has caused a strong feeling a on s
m~~; ! - .· I .. whether the Government appr bends that the permia ion ·
by this Deputy Commissio er would lead tb -di torb . peace in Ja.gadbri town_; ! , i :
( ) whether the Government will e pleased to tak~ so prohibit the slaughter of an mal~ ancl sale of tjleitt town'? · I
Honourable Sir Geoffrey de ontmorency : i '.rh re y t o cil question ii! not yet ready : it will be eommunio ted t th
_le member when ready. _ · I i - : I
RICULATION AND ScHooL-1,EAVL G C~RTIFICATE Ek1M NATI
* Lala - Mohan Lal : Will th Honourable the ¥i*is er f Edu pleased to lay on the table a lis of schools :- I l
( ) that have shown a pass pereen age ~hove 60 in the;la t Ma tion and School-leaving Ce tificrte Exam inttibn;
( ) that have showna pass perce tagei between 89 an~ 1 ; ( ) that have shown a pass percen age below 40 '? I •
I • I
Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal; The infot~at on i ollec e . - i i 1
.~- Lala Mohan Lal : Will th Honourable the Miin ter f e pleased to supply in a tabula fonµ ~he particuJ.a:ts ive
c se of each schqo_l qi;ider_ heads ( ), (~) and (c). in ~1es ion
· -: .. - -( :)the name of the ~c~~~l ; _ l I ! - , t~:\ ( } the number of boys)ent: up or ~h~ Matricnlapitjn
Leaving Certificate Exa · tio11- in the year ~926 -- { ) the number of boys that came ut successful ; 1· _ i ( ) pass percentage secured by e ch school ; i
I I I ( ) expenditure incurred by the G vernment for tbey~ar 1926 '7 an
grant-in-aid or net mainte ncelcharges Z. l ! __ · _ Honourable Mr. Manohar !: :;.The iru~b~at· n i
___ ~11-e te • .- : _ i : . _ ·-- _ , - . I J - - :
MISSION INTO GOVERNMENT DUOA~IONAL IN~T~ TION - ON COMMUNAL- BASIS I i
- -. . . . - _, ·- I· ... , - ·~ -z-1.a1a Moluin Lal: . Wil -the Honoura ble the Mini ter e pleased to sta.t,e in·what·edrtcat. nal~stitutions o~ t~e Gov
· sion regulated on communal basi. '? !
.. Honourable Mr .. Manohar · Lal ~. The Govdr - nt ttbo e the Medical College; Lahore, an thetMedioal School,
i
------------------------------ -- --- ~--
:;..,....
: - - PLnNG' oF MOTORS os :IimE IN m -KA.No:a.A. · DIBTRIOT.
*507. · ChaudhriR~ Singh: Will :the: B:6ti6~hle Member foi, Revenue. be pleased to sta.~e :-- _ _ _ _
-- (q)_ wh~tlietit is ·a. fact that in almost a.11 the districts of 'the Punjab _·various 'companies are plyiAg taxis 'on hire and that very
- • - _ - - 0 moderate -ra-ies of .hire and in some places rates lower than the
- - ,, .-._ railway fare ate being charged from the- passengers ; (b) whetherit is also l1 fact th~t in .the1Kangm district the rate of hit&
charged from the passengers is six pice per mile, whfoh is, with. __ the .exception of Da~~si~J_)1igher than that _ obtaining in_ - ;- , w:iy other parro:f]lie provipc~.; - -- - -- -- ---"-- ~
. - - . - . .
_ - *506. Chaudhri Ram Singh : Will the Honourable MeJl!ber for- Finance · be: pleased .to state :- - - ·
-(a) whether it is a fa.ct that Inqi'lab, an Urdu _daily of Lahore; published in its issue of the 16th June, 1927, an article underthe heading " Mr. Justioe-Dalip Singh should resign and an enquiry
_, should be made as to the circumstances under which the judg .: ment relating· to the R,angila Rasul case was pronounced":
- which ·amounts. to contempt of Court: . ,_ : (b) whether the said article .has come to' the notice :of Govern-
ment? t3' · .,: , (c)' if the answer to the above be in thea~a.tive,· will Government.
, : ~- pleased to_state_'\\'hethel'-it is- c~sidering- the desirability . . . __ :-, - <>f immediately prosecuting the said newspaper? - - - - -The -Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency :: - The article had
.!lot p:i:eviously.come to the notice of Government and is now-bemg examined and considered. · - · _ · -
. :c-: _ -(ii)_.i\.ny attacks on the scriptures of other communities will of course-be, examined and dealt with on their merits. -
AOTION -AGAINST OFFENSIVE WRJ.TINGS IN 'rH;E PRESS.
c *505. Chaudhri Ram Singh: (i) Will the Honourable the Fin~n~e -Member kindly state:- _ __ . - - _
(a) whether it is a facHhat there have been appearing in - the Muslim Outlook articles in 'which Government has _been requested to proscribe the well-known book called- " Satyarath Parkash "
· which was written by Swami Daya N and, the respected founder of Arya Samaj ; · •
(b) whether- Governnient is aware that " Satyarath Parkash " is the· __ 'holy book of the Arya Samajists ?
-.. (ii) Uthe answers to (a) and (b) above be in the affirmative, will Gov : ernment: be pleased to state whether it intends taking some action with a _ view t-<? stop the-appearance of such offensive writings infnture ?
The.Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency s (i) (a) Yes, one or two such articles have been noticed .
1015' STARRED QUES110NS AND ANSWERS.
·~-- ........... ~----- --
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1 Vitk the footn
for
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PUNJAB LEGISLATI E C~UNCIL. t 22NJD J
u ~ !:,:1'~ also • laet_tl•• ii ~y ~erson p~gJ ta , e charges less than 6 pice p r mile hIS license 11S,clfis ; · I I
(ii) the number of applications eceived during ttie 1la. t t y re praying for the grant of icenses for plyin~ Ib.o ors o hire in the Kangra. district ; : , .
I I
(e) whether-it is also a. fa.ct tha.t here are a number of erso in Kangra. district who are spared to ply mQtogrs a.t s lo than those charged a.t p sen~ in Kangra. ; I ;
(!) whether it is also a fact that angta is a poor dkttic ; I I I
(,g) if the answers to the above b in the afflrmative, · · the able Member for Revenue be pleased to co*sider the lity of issuing motor lice ses to· an applicants I wi personal restrictions ? i ' I f
1 • B. H. Dobson: (a) Motor vehicles are und~~to d .. several districts of the provine . I~ is possible ~h~t rat
ompa.re favourably with those harged by the r~i,w y e this subject Government has no infof.Illati?n. I I
) Six pice per mile has, it is und rstobd; been presbrib , as barge for a second class seat in a otor lorry plying! £qr
'-Oo e ent is not aware whether this ·s a higher rate than hat · a.ny o her part of the province, except a1hdusie, for the ~ijne s e ; ·
: . ( No.r-0ad certificate has been rev ked ~ Kangra. forl1t~e eas0, . ted b the honourable member ; ! : /
( · About 125 ; _ . j 1 . 1 i (_ So fa.r only one such person is p<>fied to have ?o~e fo ( Kangra is not among the rich r d~tricts of the prQ ce.
_'.The question:of the _plying of oto~ v~hicles for rJ~ . t 1~ about to be examined. i : JI I
EORUITMENT OF. OLERKS FOR THE H.JRo-ELEOTRIO D\m- * Chauclbri Ram Singh : Will the Honouirabn
· · kindl •n I I 1 e tuxe = y state :- 1 1 I
:(11,) whether it', is -a; fact 'that a. 1er recruitment j'of cler made for the Hydro-El c~ri9 J?epartmen~; 1 ' ·
(b) whether Government}s a.war the.~ in the Kan~! di trict large number of unempl yed ! matriculates I an no la.tea? - · ! i ! I - - _ r . ; - ..
L. (c) If the answers to (a) and (b abovebe in the ~~ativ · - · Honourable Minister be· leased 'to state whetb r he
' . sider -the desirability of ":ving preference ltot"t e r · · the. Kahgta district w · e making appoirttrµ .·ts
. dep;irtxnent? _ 1 : , · • I r' · . e RonoU,!'•ble_ Saidar Jogen a Siqh: (a) 1Y~;.
. . . :. ' . I I
''.N I . • I J ~ ! .
--- ----------
i .
- - (vY A meeting was held-in a mosque. , __ -,- __ -_ :: ..... _ (df An'application - was' made t.o the a.l!thoritfes. for 'license £'o :take out
,a .proeession in connection with the. ap.niversary of Shivajee ~n. the Brei of May. No such procession had evl3l' previously been allowed.and it license· was refused owing' to .the state of communal tension then p:revailing. : In
.regard lo the installation of a. statue i:ri the Durgiana temple, no :restriC?fi!ons _ .,were placed on this ceremony ; but the District Ma.gis~ra.tl;), while granting, ·- -, -,_:;:~, ,-- ''-s•·,--- - - - --- - -- , - .. - --- - ,_ -E -- --
._. ._.
- . --~
SECTION 144 IN AMRITSAR.
--· *510. Chaudhrl Ram $ingh : wm 'the Honourable Finance Member :1,e pleased to state :- -
-- -- (p,)_-whether iJ is. a fact that_section 144 has)ie~n e:r1forc~d-i~ 4miiti- - _sar_; - _
(b) '.\Vhether it is a fa.ct that Sardar KharakSingh was taken inproo~s- - ~ -- - sion on his arrival at Amritsar a few dayg ago ; _ _ , _ _
': : (c) whetlier it lS also a met that a meetµig of -the Muhamn1ada~s - " of Amritsa1· was held-thereto protest a.gainst _an- article,, pub-
-- lished in one -o-Ohe-issues of the V artm!,tn; · - - '. ;{a) 'tf the ~riswe:r to ~hf3 above bEi'iri the affirmative, will Governmeri.t
-. ({~~- be pleased'fo-.state tbe reasons why: the Hin<lirs we.re prohibit-. - - ed from taking out a pro~essiOil in honour of Shivajee and why
, restrictions wereimposed on the installation of- a. ,sta1aie by the - - ·- - - - - Hindus in Dargiana temple while the S-iJilis and ¥l!h~~e.dans
_ ,·---' , ., - ; - were allowed to take out a processicm a~<J. hold ine_et~s '? _,,.,. _ _ The Honourable ·$ir Geoffrey deMontmorency : - (-a;}' Noj, so £~ ~s Govem.iiieritis-aware. - - - -- ~- - ---"--'-_---- -~ - - -'-~--·":-:c-- -c._,,..
{6fY~s.
1-
Cow-KILLING IN GURDASPUR.
*509. _ Chaudhri Ram Singh : Will the Honourable Finance Memb0l! kindly state =--:- - _ _ __
(a) whether it is a. fa.ct that on the oooasion <>f the last " Id" somebody - - after killing a. . cow threw -- its head in one of the temples - in
- Gnrdaspur ; - - - - -,
(b} whether on account ofthia, great exoitemetit is prev-ailingamongst - the Jifudus,.of that locality; -
(c) if: so, wheth()r ~y investigation has been .made '_by)he' poliee; - (d) the .rooult of the investigation ? - - - -- -- ~ - - - - - ---- - --
- The Honoutable Six Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a)'.Yes. '(b) There was excitement, but it is understood to hav~ -~bsided. - - - -- ------ - '-,-- l
(ctYes. '. - " __ -, __ _ -_ - :.. (d) The ll:\Vestiga.tion -is Still proceeding. -
(c) .A.s experienced oler~ are required by_ the Hydro,Eleotrio Branch, _ .applieations of men from the Kangm district oan only beeonsidered on- th-m _- - '
· .:pierits. - - -
1017 - STA.RRE D QUESTIONS .AND A~SWERS.
LAHORE Mu
PUNJAB LEGISLATI !
COUNCIL. !
·at~ a.ccorfilngly wrote to t o of' the leaders bf l t e y who had approached him and aid ·.that Government wer_
to t the electora.lrules of the L ore Yuncipal Co~tt ·e so vid or the return of 17 Muslims, 1 Hindu..s, 1 Sikh and · ot ,eh e 'COuld not. how-eve:r be. made f th~ :purpose of the .,
111·,3 ]
1·9 !
I l •4: 1
!
_:.I I - .! 17•2 .+
J~·CS ,1.·a
11·0
17•11 10·1 11·1 11·1
-.--:.
1•4 .i- .I
1;2 ·s
22·, : i-·..-l-....,_1_·_T-+- +i---+-- 1 'c
I , Population. i Vi ten.
• I i I ! I I I
TOT.it
! :
24-() I .
l4·4 i Mi
T<ltal No. of seats ~o 1Vhi h e uniti were entitled on t~ basls of t e mean of
' population and v-oti g st h. I I
nd
LY l 27.
PopuMiOD. Votem.
- - - - - -
NlDitllElsl 07 BLBQTJID SU COBDDtGTO
20 14
2
5
Total No, of-seats.
PUNJAB LEGJSLATI E OC;)UNOIL,
on'ble Malik Firoz Khan Noon J - i i
he distribution of thetotal num er, ~u. of seats filled. · tment was as follows :- j i
elaction as it would involve amending all the rules as to electoral circles ; · . 'Government would therefore wait till this election was over and then publish diaft. rules to come futo force 'fodh~' purpose of the next genera] electioJi ~ , - - l9so: Meanwhile tM position could only be ,:I'ectifi_ed- by a redistribution of the seats to-be filled by 1:1ppoiritment, but, as therfi were·:only 9 such sea.ts whereas- ·10 ·seats were required~ to bring the number. of Muslim and
. Hindu se:ats up to 'the numbers to which these communities were respectively entitled according to the formula, _the .nearest approachto the formula that could be achieved would be to give 4 of the ~ppofuted seatsito the Muslims and 5 to the Hindus. - - As however ,this- :WOUl<F give'to the Muslims - · a. I11ajority of 21 · to. 20 over all Q.ther communities ~ha Minister apprehended
.that this solution would not commend ;itself to the Hindus. He was therefore- · prepared to leave the present distribution of seats as it was f9r the present, for_though it \vas less favourable to the Muslim community than a distribn-:-:: tion-according:to the strict formula, the Muslims might well be ccinten~ with.:.' retaining the position. in which thei had been able to secure a working majority. -·· -- -
_. - No reply·wa&-~~efved from. the g~tlem~ ~drElSSeg exeept:a wire from one of them~.bnt it would appear- that the Hm.dli conimunity,not only will no~_ accept the formula.. which has been a pp lied· everywhere else. in .th'e provinoB-' ·
_ where communal eleotorates'sre in existence but is not even content with the unique arra.ngenienta in Labore' under which the conuri.unity which has a.
- majority in respect both.ofpopulation aad of voting strength has been placed. _in a minority on the coiruriittee as against all other communities .. No other formula .whieh could be applied ~partially in all municipalities of-the province has been suggested by the Hindus; and the sole justufoa.tion for. their claim to· receive special treatment jn Lahore that .has apparently-been advanced is. that they have a greater material stake in the municipality tha.n other com- munities and pay a larger proportion of municipal taxes.'.: ;For the latter omhn,' however,'no s&tisfactoty proof could be forthcoming, as it is impossible to say on which community thEi'e\"entual incidence of t~al ta.x falls most heav:ily, but in any case thejustificaton advanced is contrary f,o all prinoiplies - of demooratio institutions and cannot be seriously maintained, The Punjab Qoy~Mt (Ministry of Local Self-Government) deeply regrets that so. _ important a section of the community should decide to abstain from candi- : dature at the elections but every. oon.sidera.tion of justice prevents them from go~g·further than:they have done in l'.lmking concessions in order to obt_airi. _
. . its. co~operatfon; - . . 'J./,~'\··. ~( _·
. - ' HONORARY -MAGISTRATES.; ~ ' c
_.- · •s1i' ci;udhri 'Afzal Haq : Will tli~ -nobourable ~ce Meiiiti;r be pleased to- sta~e the names. .of those Honorary ¥_agistrates whose powera have been withheld temporarily on.aeeount of their. ta.king :part in Council . elections? ... · -·. _. _.· _ ·
The . Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmcirency : During th~ · • ·'recent elections for th~ Legislative Council, District Magistrates were. directed
to send no cases~o Honorary Magistrates·who.were either tluimtielves candi dates, or were related to candidates, or were lmowi;i. to 'he canvassing on behalf of eandidates; The powers of no Honorary 'Magistrates . wer~· :·, - .- * ~porarlly · withheld or withdrawn. __ , - - ·-- ,. ----- - - .. - -_·----·
STABBED QUES'llO~B' AND ANBWEBB;_ .. ,
i , ....
l Vide the footnote at page 969' ~nt~.
PUNJAB-,Ia!JGISLATIV
-
· "i) Yes. ! i i • __ - . j I I I
e , ; { ~,1,- NP,, the Magistrate, ofLthe:ilaq , no~ the District( '. · tr ken · ermediate security from the p son :named under ~eo ion.
o ::tpp q M,Af. OriD;UD,alJ~rQOe.~e. , I i - { , overnment-is,a~~re that some cUssatisfa~tion exist~. -:: - - :~-:·-, .-. -;.-_ - - - .; - I • i i. , . {, _ _ Jl~io,ns _ conne9te«I .,~th, the or_ e~s: 'i'ega.rding, sa.cti~ce, are · p:i;e . ~:'e g, ,:, _ _;-ther C<;)~IJ~r~~ion.qf Gove ~t.: j ; -
I
.J
·· AWARD OF PRIZE TO FEMALE GRADUATES TO :eunsuE THEIR STUDIES IN . ENGLISH UNIVERSITY. . . . - . -
*516. Chaudbri ,l\µal ~q_:-WiU the Honourable the Minister for :Education be pleased to - state ~- -. - . . - . -
~-:" r - (a) whetµe/it is a-f~ct that Government (Ministry oj EducationJ ha"ve - .. fieen pleased to _a"\Yard a prize--of tSOO monthly" -to a female
gradua'.teio·pursue h-erstudies in any Englisn University·; (b) whether it i~/L_ fa,c_t t~~t: tb~t gntJl~q_po~ Jwl~1*~.o this 'i1iovitoe ;- -:
.. - (c) · ;wh~ther it is a fact that two other Punjabi female-graduates with . . super~r. qualificaJ_ions presented theinsalves. for' the same- - ·- .
. pmm ; - . -· (d) whet}ler it is a fact that the Bengali female graduate who is a.warded_
the' prize once failed· in B.A., while the oth~r · ca11didates_ d~ not pos~ss that disqualification ? <· ·· '' · · ··
(e) If so, will · the Honourable Minister be pleased to state, the - :reasons -· for the above-mentioned selection of a non.:P~jabfgirk.wj~u
inferi<>r. qllalifroations-2., - . __ .;..' _ · - _ :The Hono~,bJ~~· ~oluu: Lal:. (a) A ~"QC!lin!lhi~ ci £30~ .. - 1:>oon awarded .. ·! ,._, .·" . ..-.,:,, • '. -, - - -: _, '. ',_c : ' . -- - .
{bJ_No -. ~_:ijer parents liave.livedjn·tlie Punjab for the last 25 years. ,aud4he:~ho}ar:·nas ·received hei -. ·• _eclucation. in-the Punjab institutions .. . ~ {cY Thia'"-i~ a ~~tt~r ~i ~~inion-.~.' The ~~ectiort·oouimitte~. t\onsist.
··in.g of J\fi~. ;u .. ¥:-._~Stra.tro,i:a; .RA., . r.E;$:/MJ3;Jt; '.Deputy'' '.;Dfr~t:rJss~'bl '.Pupli90 llll!~rn.ction; Puiijao, l\fiss. G. Hai·risoi;i, B_;k, Piin~ipal, Labor~ :, College fqr: 'o/'oµi~~ ;: Mis!' I{, -Sircif:of the - "Kiiµiaiid" Collage/ Lahore and Dr; R ~- Wh1tehousa, D.Sc.; Vice-Principal, ~ntial ·Training College, Lahore; considered the· scholarwho has been appointed to be-the be.st eandi- ~~ -· .
. _·: .-. _ (~ :The ~oh.?!a~ pass~d,the. Matrioulati6:µ (in tlie fir~t division}. i:n 1922.·; - 'tpein.tanneaiate (in tha'.fimfdrvision))n'i;s~;~H~ft~e J,\~.:r~ 19261 · _
(e}'Does not-0.arise. --- - - - :.-. -·~_:::· :· · ·· ,-
-~- ......
STARRED. Ql.TESTIONS AND ANSWERS. 10'2::J ._- --,..,,._,. - . - .v.; : - >_: < - .. - .i :,, ·. ,. --,_ .: --.- ':_: ':01 j·
.. : NEW APPOINTMEN_T~ MAI>E_lN T!IE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT BY THE - ._. - - - - - - . ',.;, MrN,IST1ti' oF''E:ou~AiiON~ - - ., - . - .
. *&15. Cbaudhri Afzal ·ifaq' :-_wili th; · :a9~0~~01~ the--Minister for - .Edncation.bepleast3dto_state- ~-- .·:-,. -~,,_ ~.,., .;.,- -'1 ··-,--r_--_- ",
-< '. -·.'. · (~f iHfis\i~c(t~i~ qoier~ept_ (M:~tri o~E=4~~iJ?n~ ha,ve made . · :-- . ,., ·. -the following. new appomtin1?nts m the· Education Depa.rt .. . . ' nient this year':- . -v, '- - . -- ;
-;~,--Th!ef.i~. th~<~l1d~. of 2()~1~250, a,l14 . ,Five in tli~ grade of 1~1~190\ - . . . . _(b)i i_ is.is ·&,,fact.that no Muh!WUAa4~ js 'tJL¥~n:itl. th~~ ~~1~ ?1
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal:: (a): No~: . . (b) N O, - -- . -
Wi
1 v,rk the footnote a.t pa 96Q ant.e ..
I i AijD ANSWERS~ .
I i . ! !
KHABA A. ··j I
. . . ,_ Khan Bahadur Mian Muh ~d Hayat, !qur - hi __ be. .o ourable Revenue Member be pl ased1 to state - \
.- ; · .. . ( ) whether it is _a fact that there · a, eonsiderable inoreas ,._ on account of the frequent toppage of canals !in:· . ew
<I.B_nger __ of_ watering-logging nd the shortage bf :w ter s · . - ' i i .
the proportion of Khsraba t mature crops : on he . Jhelum canal during the t t three years ; J !
_ ) · wh~her (,fovermnent is prepar to admit applioatitjns for - · ·. d,uring the period the cro s e.r~ standing' in~t1a. . of
particular date for it, as pr~ent ? ! 1
UNSTARRED
Muah madans I Hindus. Si ta.L
2 ,
4 i 4 I• 1 i 8
! 15 9 4 l
rii,.t.endents.of Police
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCiL •
. JAGIBDABS AND ABMs AcT. : - .. 1, · Chaudhri Afzal Haq : W the Honourable th R enu
mb . be pleased to state - i . .::.. . ( a ~hether it is a fact that several ears ago J agirdatji hol ing ·
· of Rs.1;500 or above were ex mpted from the .Ai-ms ct ; ', ' (b whether it.is a fact that this no ifioation laid down on
, namely, that these Jagirdars will [be exempted.fro only which at the time of otifi.¢ation they h~<l i
• : I , session ; _ : · i : · (t; · hether it is a ·fact that several agit~ars who hadj gbt l o .a s at
the time of notification could not profit by this ex~mption to this proviso ; i : j ; l
so, will the Honourable the Rev nueiMember be pl~s d t state whether. the .Go. verrim. e. nt - . cons·.· idering th,' d. esirab" · y o removing this obviousdiffic ty ?. i
. B.. H. Dobson : Yes. ( ·.
11 LAHORE IOT ICASES. :
· ... Chaudhri :Afzal. Haq : w· . t4e : Honourablei t e e pleased to ~tate the num.ber o~ ub::~nspe~tors, ~n~p?Ct rs,
,1J.1)9fUtl1il'!ndents ot Police, eommunity-wia , who are mvest1g!),t1hg the es? · . l , i !
- : . l l Honourable Sir Geoffrey de ontmorency : i i
. - . ' j - I I
I !
Lt· ~. ! \
··- .. - . - tVi<Je the foofnoteat page969 ant11.
. ·. . . . -
- · 286.· . Khan Bahadur Mian Muhammad Hayat, Qureshi : (a) Wilt the J!onourabla:Reyenue Member be pleased to state whether theKhanewal . ·
\Pivision·receives ]~Sf! rai¢all th!!,!J: j;h~ Montgo!Qel'y and Okara DivisioIIS o~, ~ the Lower Bari Doab eanal.andis also at the t~i! of the canal ; . . .
-'"- - '(b} if. so, is theGovemment prepared to tr13at :the Khanewal Division liberally in the matter of the diatribution of canal water'} '
_ 1Mi. 1:· B. '~ ·smith : (a) 'I'here is no appreciable difference between,. the ~a.in.fall in Kh~ewal and the µeighbouring divisions ;
. -· .. (b) Does not ·me.
. .. :pisTRIBUTION o~ CANAI, :}VA.TER To Kru.NEWAL DIVISION,
STOPPAGE OF CANALS.' ·.::;;
-- .. 285. Khan Bahadur Mian Muhmmad Hayat, Qureshi:. {'b) - ·(a): Will the Honourable Revenue Member be pleased to state~ ·
(a) wheiher it is a fact that the Zaniindars on the Lower Jhelum Oanal recently submitted a representation to the Superintending: .
. · Enginjl0r .in connection with the proposed-periodical. stop'page~ of the canals in view of the danger 9£:)~;ater~logging ; ·
(b) _· what action the Government prop~s. fo take in the matter ; , (c) whether the Government is aware. thai the land .of the Ata,
ilaqa in Shahpur 'I'ahsil which lies between the two drainages.. Baniwah and Dhedhar, is hard and saltish and with the least
. danger of water-logging ; · · · · (ii)-if the answer to (e) above is _iiLthe a:ffiJ:mative, does Government
propose to show a special consideration to this i1aqa in the matter of water supply. _ · _ I .
·1Mr.0J: B. G. Smith : Ifthe representation referred to :is the resolu, tion of the meeting of Zamindars of the Bhahpur District on the 15th of June the-matters referred to are stillunder very oa;refuland anxious conaiderstion-
-· ·."':'-
.·· ·(c) ~ii.ha applications are. admitted at· ~tiY: time ·dtiring_ the period the crops iµe standing up to the prescribed date. Admission after those dates except• in· ~pecial. cases/ would. mean· a consideri:Lble-increase in work' for the . canal staff which would in that ease have to be augmented. . Government ii· not::therefore prepared to' consider the proposal. . '::~.
_.1Mr~ J~ B. G.~Sinith: (~J'No: ~ . . . (b). The percentages of. Kharab~ .to matured crops on.tli~L~w~r Jhelum. .. · ...
c~~ f~r 'the last :t~e years are-~ . . . -, . . ··.· . . . . 1928~24 .• •. F89 . 192~25 '. . l· 85 . 1j}2Q'-26 • ·• 1 •88
UNBTABRED QUE_STIONS AND ANSWERS •.
1 Vide'the footnote a pag~ 969 ante.
j i i i · · J imrorar, Loox uPs) ! 11 ·
~ B&Ji~ur Mi~ M l!Uld Hayat,_ ~~ . ,: . le tlie Finance Member be plea id t9. state:~ -1 r· -
t .· ~ whether it is ~·· fact th~t every : dieial ~ock-llp is. m~{}ll for > number of under-trial _p',?SO ers ; i : r i
{b ;whe~h.er the limit is. often exce ed ;: f [
(c · wliether the Government will iss e in~trµctions that the • mit s oul in no ca~:-be exeeeded.: - : • I j':·
.whetli:er;i(is a fact t~at manyj di~i~llock-ups ha~en. ,:ver,}l!i}l , ~Ii. ~heal>sen:ce of whi~h the Uiid~i-trial prison~r(h ~f · }{,. inside even in thehot seaso ; ! i '
.whether the Government is pr are~ to consider ~h~ ~ti of some arrangements to e able: under-trial pri~o ers · ~ll the op,~nin the hotseaso und~r adequate s~P.$. :, i~l!.
_ Honourable Sir Geoffrey d ontmorency : ~lfllY:. . ade fr m the Honourable Judges of th High Court and th~ r~t
~~CQwcµ·c~ted in due ~urse. · '
o, unless in special eircumstano such a concession.
' . __ j
i·
PUN:!fB LEGISLATIVE OUNCIL. . :··.
; : ·.ARRANGEMENTS FOR. THE_ FOOD OF MUSLIM AND NON~l\iUSLI\\l ·Pm:soNE}RS _ - _. _ . ·lN(JAILs,, - - · ·. ,,, ·
- · a - mtan Bahadur. l\limi ~ubammad Hayat, - _ Qilfeh~ -: ( a) W:ill: -the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state-wh.ether· separate
·, \ar:i.jpg~~pt~ f<W the £~4 ofJ\fw;lim. and no-n-M11slii;ri prisoners exist at '·prese.nt· m .the jails; - - ' - ' - ·., . ·: - ' -
__ , (b)_·if. t~JJ a~;wer to { a).isJn the negative, is tfl.~ G9cyernm(')n,t prepared to ·:\·a~ra.nge,f9f,·Sfil>M~e latpliei:is. µi.Juture? - _.1. • _ -_- ' : -
- - -_ - The H~nourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmor•cy,::- - (a} Separ!l,te ~r .. .. :rapge.Die~~s,aµ-~tly e:i,dst in,mostrJaiJ;s. _ The few i'i,:µlai:nmg., cases- arti re·
- .-c~,ivin_g-·attention~ - - - - - · · - - · · - - - - , (b) D~es not arise-. "
Ro~D JOININ.G MoN'r!,lO~;ERY AND J.>~PATTA.N. , _ ,:: 291. Baba,Karlar 'S;,.b, Bedi_: HM-thtt attatitionof·the IIon,our ..able. Minister - for :Agric-q.lture been drawn to the deplorable condition .
. <of -the· road joining l\fo,ntgomery and Pakpatt1tn? -. - _.. . - ' - ' 'If SO; willhe.be pleased Jo state what ;:steps ate Cqntem.plat:ed to keep ,the '
road, in good condition. - -- · · - - ___ - _- - The HQnpurable Sardar Jogenclra S~b-i Government is aware of. _ the state of theroa.ffwhicb-was taken ove.rJfom'the District Board last year.---
- An estiniata amounting to Rs. 6,9;'i,OOO was sari.ction~d in NovemberIor.its -improvement. and work-is - now in progress. · ·
,,,'-,;-_. -RAILWAY LINllf Jl'ROM- :PAKPATTAN To -1\foNTdO:M:ERY, _ , _ - 292~. - Baba Kartar. Singh, Bedi: Will;Jh;" Honou;able tlle Minis . 'ter for Agriculture please state whether there.is any· proposal to; construct ;a railway· line from Pakp_attan to Montgomery direct ? - --
The Honourable Sarclar Jogendra Singh : Yes; there is a proposal -under consideration to eonstmot a railway Iine from' Pakpattan to M9:n~omery. - - - - ·-- · ·
. SIKH l'.RISONERS IN BURMA- J'A.ILS.' -- __ '', 29~. Baba Kartar Siiigb,- JWi : Has the .at_tEintion -Of_ th~ :Elonouc :able th~ Finance Member beep. drawn to a statement i:~ently published ~' tlj~r " }roiward. " -· of _0alp_ut~a dealing with the alleged inhuman ,trea,tII1ent
'.;ioe~~d ()U~ t<rth~.Sikh_prisonersin'Burma Jails? :. - ;, '. > - -.'.', ,· .. ·.·-. - -. . .. .. . . . . -- . . . : ,'--
- , It~, will 'he-be pleased .t~ mak~ a statmnent oHaetn.ege,idiiig·the alle- gations made in that paper? _ __ -- - · - - -
' ' : . The Honourable. ~sir ~ik~Y- -c1_e~QQ~O(eQCJ,: Tha, - answer to_ - :'the :first part of the question is in the negative. ff the honourable member lVill refer me to the date on which-the' stateJI1ent was published thematter
· will be examined, _ · · _ - · -
IRRIGATION CLERi:dAt Es.T~at1sHME~T .
... , 2k·LaJa Kesho Ram, Sekliri: '(i}Ja)_ wm-,the- ·Ifo~ourabl0 the .Bevenue Member very kindly state whether at the time ofthe general re-
i' !
1027- ~ . :- -, UNSTARRED QUESTIO~B AND ANSWERS,_ • . i . . . . ·. ": . ; " : : ... ·' . . . ~ ._' '· ": -. - _- ' ., . - .. -
I
' _ 1_Jr iae the footncte a.t- p e 96~ a.,.te. i i I
vane· an
! . PUN JAB LEGIBLATIV OOUNOIL (]22N
l I . · "o Ram Sekliri.] ' -. / 1
.. o o pe.y of the Punjab Irrigation cl "cal1es~a.blishment ih I cto a here e · ted vacancies from 1912 in the ario*s grades of t~e ~s abli
• c., . h. . o : ' : I I 1 ,- s , _ ow many, . --- . . 1 1 , ~ . . • -._ . • : . . { : ' . ! 1. . ..
· · )- IS it . a fact tha.t all these vacan ies were not filled up [erm t t~_ t · e ?f_revision of pay in-October 9201?· , i \ -_ -- , <:_ ~--~, ( Is:. it a fact that several. assiatan clerks who are ac~iiig - th . cl s gamst __ .these yacanc~es smce-_ 1 ~20 ~av, nbt y;et bee, c~- $me
· h des to which their promotion is. d-,e ? : I · -{-("i) (a)_ Is ~t a fa?t that another. sch dul~\of\pro':incial icitri ale ent w s, sanctioned in.I 926 to provide f r the establishmeI).t pf utle roj t and that the vacancies below th greide of divisioqa~ ad: c
ho · -this schedule have also not yet een permanently ~lled p 'l _ ) Is it a fact that' owing to tne vae ncie~ 1ri the lower l?~d no
een _ _ anently filled up from 1912 q e a large nurnberlof n · · . .: s_. __ ,_-_ r_ e des.ignated as a_ oting and ~~a they_ suffer a gre~t ~a ~hi
a,tt _ of leave allowance and pension ? , '. J .. I - · - - d ,;. :WilJ the Honourable the Beve ue Mem~er kindly~ wh
alls _ o this inordinate delay in filling p _ t~e; vacancies! ii, - in,t[I:rmine I'!~ p 1: ons concerned in their respective grades ? Will h~ ~ls sta. h~ e case is expected to be disposed fan.cl the vacancies: ed u
- . J. B. G. Smith: (i) (a) and b). It is not possib14 n w it d time and establishment to calcul te tij.e number of r_~ca eies,
hie ight have existed from 1912 to 920.j All vaoancir lw re an t y in the revision of October 192 with the following ~x epti
I ' Divisional 2nd Clerk 1 '
. :Accounts . Clerk 1 _ Assistant Clerks _ •
1 • 4 ·
1
) Yes. .: :' ·. _ I I ! -, i1,) (a~ Yes, for the re~son,given a (a) l~nd (b) ab~v~-1 - . b) It is a fact that owing to they cancies not havin'g i b en
lar e umber of men are designated as otink, but it is not c~ oot t
~ "__ _ _ ea. t. h. a.rd~hip. in ~he matte: of l ve ~_1.llo_.· wane~ an4_ p._·_el1s.ion _he_ t ey are given then· promotion t y "?11 get it mt~ etro ffeo. · , [ ;
- · · . The cause of the delay is that t e re*ords of practi~ll 500 he as 6 years have to be examined · order to make th~ pr moti
I •. The number of vaoanoies at pr sent unfilled are :only 69, otal s ength of nearly J,000. i.e., 748 perfuanent and ~p~ro ·- a em or ry. The examination of their records is actually in and (ho e .· to complete it' within Jhe next hr~ ~onths. ! i --
_ .. _·:'.. - . " i • I I CREATION OE' KASU DISTRICT. ! i.
·: Sarclar Hira Singh : (a) ill 1ihe Honourtiihl~ he
em _e be pleased to state if it is a fac that Kasur is to !lb~ e eate ct? • !
i I.
.j -i .·,
. I ,-_ i ~ '[ J,
".i I
i i I
-i ., -1 :·I
·I - i !
_ . _ _ • , 'VmLA.GEI SANITATION AND :PuBLIO MANAGEMENT ,A.oT.-
;;:_:~·:· -:297>_=ibii-:i~~b--.I..alaGangaRam·:···(a)··With-referelice~o-question - >--,_l~fo;- 3493,~p-qt on\the- 2i st October 192?, will the Honourable Munster to
_ .. Local S~lf~Goveririnent be pleased to state whether the consideration has been made or not? - - -- · ,-_--- ·· - · _ ~::-::
:.~; ;: '_(,b):: If. th~ a.cir~~: to. ( a) .be in: the ~a~w.ithie;. wm.· ~- be -~leas.ad to s;ate ·the -result ::of the consid.eration? . . . . . - -·· . . - -· :t:
. -_ _(c) If the re~ult of th~ ~on:siaer~tion is f~voµra.b}et will the .aii;~alile ~.-M,iajster please state when he propOS'e!l" to take ne~es~ary stepsf o:(legisl~- .J;ion 7 , · ~ , . - - · · , - -
~_;,,.
_ The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon r - Th~ honourable)Jlemb~, is referi:ed to the- r_eply ~? starred; qu~stion No. 1sa.· - - · · - · · ·
: . .1 VUe +.he f<>titootaat page 1169atik. _ . . • •Vol. IX·B, pagel631.:,:. . ---
.· ;_:.·._,.:.---~{,i~:'. •v~ X-A, __ ~~~-~'.:-~i ,·-·c
0HAtrKIDARS AND_ REGISTJiATION OF BIRTHS AND DEATHS •. -
--- 296. - Sudar. Hira Singh: (a) Is the HorioU:rable the Minister- -for Local Self-Government aware t~t village chaukidars find -it _troublesome
.. -:to-go to police stations for getting. the. births and deaths registered ? ,: /:_ - ; "(b) Does the Government.intend to re-introducEJ the old-practi~~ ~CCQtd·
· (:ing, to which the patwaris 'use to register the births and deaths ? · - : :; _ _ ·_ · ·(c) Will the Government be pleased to st-ate the reasons why the old -system was changed ? _ _ - : :
_ •The Honourable Malik Firoz-Khan, Noon: _ (a) Judging from t"he ·fac-t that some chaukidars neglect their duty in this respect, it may be pre-
• -sumed that they find the performance of it troublesome. · "(b) and (c) The reporting of births and deaths _by patwaris was -not
. an old practice, but was an experiment tried for a short period in a °few dis >tricts in consequence of a resolution passed by the Legislative Council. ':-1.rhe experiment-was, however, abandoned as it was found: that it w.as: less ·.:-satisfactory"thanthe old system and the object which the Legislative Council ;. 'had in view, namely to keep the ehaukidars in th_e village and aw~y -- from· the thana, could not in any case be achieved as under the rules made
·under the Punjab Laws Act, 1872, chaukidars are in any case required .to , report -at: the thana once .a week· about matters ri:)latj.ng to : peaee · and good order. . .
(b) Is it intended to transfer some villages of tlie Lahore district to the ~ritsar district ? _ Will the honourable member be pleased to state the
· .names of Such villages ? · · (c) Where will the tahsil headquarters of the various tahsils of the new
.Kasur district be situated ? · 1Mr. C. A. H. Townsend : (a) and (b) No such proposals are under
:the consideration of,Government. - - (.c) Does not arise. -
-UNSTARBED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
. Rai Sahib Lala Ganga R. ·· cal· Self-Goveriunent please stat
i • . :
t . C1v1L AssisTAN . I I 8. lw Sabib'Lala Ganga· R : (a) Will the Ho. ·ura 1 Mi ' - LocalBelf-Gov-&nment pleases ate whether it is~ f~c tha l;ie ti e f pay of Civi}Assista11t Snrgem s is Jess than· the] ti e so 'of ~y·. tlin other departments of the Pr vineial Civil Service i the nj ?
J:Itso, will hepiea:se consitler t e advisability ot bri ging lie ti ~ t-pay of CiviLAssistant Surgeo s tq the same s~and rd a allo ed'
e members of other departments f tije Provincial ('iYil Seni e ? e Honourabl; Malik Firoz.. anf!N()on: (a) I Yes.
c·· · ·, · . · . ·· · ,· I ' ' ' The matter is under consider tion;
'PUNJAB 'LEG-ISLA'rfV
SJtit.fe the footnote o page 969 attte.
OMMUNAL REPRESENTATION IN BUILDINGS AND OA:J;>S
0 . _ Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal Will culture be pleased to state :- , ,
( ) the number of Muslim and n n-Mµ.slim Executive Executive Engineers in the Public Works Depa;rt ings and Roads Branch, res eetively ; 1 !
) the number of Muslims ~d.__ _ __:__ du 4"ssistant Engihee department, separately? : ; •
Honourable Sardar - Jogen a Singh : Thej! inf rma ~ :vail bl in th.e Punjab Civil List, - pag s 281-'-284-A.
1 l • _ "
- (_) There _a:r~ 80~Executive and A sist:fut Executive! :mn e Buildings and Roads Bran h all of whom are! n n-M
) There are 8 Muslim and 1~ · d~ Assistant ~gineers. _:' I ' j '
oM:MUNAL REPRESENTATION os _ isTAFF oF UJPER BAR -- ' - Do.AB CANAL CmdLE.
Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal Will the Ho!U~~b e :a. , be pleased to state the number l\i£uslim and n~:i-M slim · and Accouritan-ts, separately, in e Upper Bari Dqal:) anal
~ -J. B. G. Smith : _ The hon uratile member i~ ref rred Statement placed on the table. i i _
! i I I ' i
REPBESENTATION - IN MEDICAL DEPAR T
<Dr. Sir M~BDUJjad Iqbal:' Will the Honourhle Mini elf-Govermnent please state :- - - i- j - - -
1 • I • () what is the to_tal~number Qf Su -Assistant Surgeo!'.ls'in the
: - . ~epa~t ; how many a e_ Muslims ; I ~ - ' i ,.
choos
nt i!I
pr - mbala
082 Pl]NJAB L,EGISLATIV COUNCIL. [ 22~D JUL
• S a,la Ganga R~.J ; I
b) If so, will the Honourable Mini ter please state 1whe,her os t appoint Hindi teachers in the V rnaeular Middle Sebo ls in ivi io ? 1
Honourable Mr. Manohar : (4.) No specific,.r~feJence att r has been received. : .
- - I
b) The appointment _ of such . teac ers in Vernacular Mi die t rest with the Ministry of E cation.
192 •
F
PROFESSORS OR TEACHERS IN INTERMEDIATE COLLEGES."
310. 'Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal: Will the Honourable Minister for dueation please state :-
( a) what is the total number of Professors or teachers both in senior and junior grades on the staff of Rohtak, Ludhiana and Hosh iarpur Intermediate Colleges ;
(b) how many of them are Muslims ? The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The honourable member is-
r. efe. rr. ed to.fhe answ·e. rs·gi·ven .. to Council qu.:zes. tio.·. s Nos. 41 .. 7 and. 452 asked ~by the Honourable Member Lala Mohan Lal. . ·. .. . ·~
- : REOR;ITMENT FOR THE VARIOUS DEP MENTS OF. GoVERNMENT:
311. Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal: Will the Honourable the Finance Member please state whether it.is a fact that since-the Lahore riots instruc tions have been issued to the police recruiting authorities to recruit more· Hindus and Sikhs as Constables than Muslims ? If so, has Government .issued or is likely , to issue similar instmotions to other departments where- Muslims are in a minority ? -.. ·
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The ordem: , issued by Government regarding the .reomitment of police in Lahore were·
explained in the Finance Member's speech in Council on the 18th July 1927 _ The orders regarding recruitment which are in force in all departments were explained in the Finance Member's speech in Council on the 19th July / WM. /
MILITAaY GRANTS IN THE N~ ... --:ii~;, · DotoNY. /'
,312. Dr~ Sir Muhammad Iqbal : Will the Government please state:-, . (a) the number of rectangles awarded- as military grants to Mus1¥n,s
. . . - in ,the· Nili Bar Colony, Lower Bari Doao Canal; .
(b) what 'is the total number of temporary Sub-Assistant Surgeons. . h_ow many of them· are Muslims.;
(c) what is the numerical proportion of the Muslim and non-Muslim. Assistant Professors end Demonstrators in the Lahore Medical College;
(d) whether it is e, fBct that of the six vacant posts of Sub-Assistant Surgeons two have been filled up by Hindus and the remain.-· ing four are left unfilled ? ' If so, what are the reasons for not filling these posts ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) The total number of Sub-Assistant Surgeons, permanent and temporary, is 711, of whom 165: are Muslims.
(b) Tbe total number of temporary Sub-Assistant Surgeons is 188,. of whom 59 are Muslims.
(c) Out of 5 Assistants to Professors in the King Edward Medical Col lege, Lahore, none is a Muslim ; out of 11 Demonstrators 8 are Muslims ;
(d) This part of the question is not understood, as no vacancies have· recently occurred. in the cadre of Sub-Assistant Surgeons or have been filled in the manner indicated.
UNSTARREI) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
i : 9~'! PUNJAB LEGISL~'l'JV CO'OKCJI.. 4 22N i i
.{D ; ir Muhammad Iqbal], J i ' ! l
_ b) the number of rectangles aw ed ~s military g~ts to n Iims in the same -colony ; i · I i ·
) the number ~f Punjabi Mus · s a.tld the uumb~r : o Hin Sikhs separately who serve in :the Great W~r :?
. C. A.· H. foWrisend : (a) and b) Information is I n!)t a . ts are. made tr _the ~jlitary An hcrif iei,- - I j
c) Muhammadan1:, . 1 • • , •
- Hindus · ! · ' i ·.· Sikhs I :
i I
POLICE FFIC~RS. i La1aJoti Parsbad : Will the - onob.rable the filauc Me state if it is a fact that the Ins otor-General of ;Poli e ha
cir r to all Deputy In~pectors-Gen ral !pld Superint~n4~ ts o
jrde _ transfers of a- lLPolice Officers w o hFe_ been- pos~edl __ - one or-fr e ears or rnore ? If so, will he ple se lay a copy of i1 ob. e ta
-- Honourable Sir Geoffrey deM n~o~ency : rrre: r ply i egat v . i i ;
i _ I l OFFICERS oF NON-ASIATIC Do~ucILE. I I
Lala Joti · Parsbad : w· th$ _ Chief Secr~tary plea the Government is aware that t re ~re some o:ffic1e1i o non
omi il in the provincial services who have not been ~01\e ted eco m dations of the "Lee Commissi " ~egarding gra~t ,of pas e an vers allowances ? If so, does Gove ent propose to renio e th · gri - snc s y granting these concessions '! ;
1
; ·
H. D. Craik: Government is war~ that there tr~ a few ffice f n-o - siatio Domicile in the various pr vinctal services, b'1,t:I ust rrmin tb o ourable Member that the Lee -C mmission conces~iotJ,s were 1~t ·
~ia.id o apply, nor have they in practic been applied to ~filce of ·
11 e ices, _ whatever their domicile. - _- j : I !
. . -. PROVINCIAL SERfICES. ' I _ 15. Lala Joti Parshad: Will the !Chief Secreta~y plea
· he.t e · the Government proposes to e end ! to members f ofl e pr ervicfes the privilege o_f counti:p,.g'-m~ta 1' s~rv- i.ce towardJ s~n ority een o e by the Secretary of State in he case of officer~ -of e ervies? _ I I!
H. D. Craik : Information rega ding the various ~rq oial collected .. It will be. supplied to tpe I honourable Im mb
. . I I . I J --- - I ! i t
BAR ROOM AT ANII>AT, I l
Lala Joti~ Par•liacl~:' Will e Honourable Me)nbe for te whether it is a fact that thee is lno bar room jf~r · he emb
ar at Psnipat, and members are put i to great trpubl an _. co dµring the· swmner ·and rainy son·? If so, will -h in i 0 th of the Honourable Judges ,of e High Court to ~his I act
I I
I
1\'ol. X·A, page 175. 2Page _834 ante.
319. Lala Joti Parshad : Will the Honourable Minister for Agricul-: ture kindly state whether the answer to-question No. 701 (nnstarred) put
. a.t .the _last budget session is ready ? - If so, will he please !ay a copy of it .on the table ?
.. -The Honourable - Sardar Jog!Bndra Singh : Attention is invited to - t4,e an.~w~r gi;vei_i to Council Question _No. *324.2
CATTLE_ .SLAUGHTER AT TUHANA,
F2
--- - .~ . . ... _. GRIEVANCES OF I\ AHNAL PUBLIC AGAINST LOCAL __ OFFICERS.
318. Lala Joti Parshad: Will the Honourable the Financial <Commissioner please state :-,- _
(a) whether it is a fact that the Honourable the Revenue Member paid a visit to Karna1 'district in November last to study th_e working of the canal and revenue amalgamation scheme;
(b) whether it is a fact that a deputation of. leading zamindars expressed a desire to interview the Honourable the B,~venue Member; ·
. -(c) whether the Deputy Commissioner, Kamal, declined to include - the name of one Lala Khem Chand; a leading rais and
zamindar of Panipat, amongst the' deputation ; . {d). what steps the Government proposes to take in order to see that - - the legitimate grievances of the public ag~inst the local officers
are brought to the notice of the higher authorities when _ they visit the district ?
Mr. C. A.H. Townsend: (a) Yes. (b) Yes; andalarge number of zamindars interviewed the Honourable
'-the Revenue Member singly and in deputation. - - (c) Yes, as it was· considered that the interests of the class represented
by-the depµtation_wl:uch consisted of Mahajan landlords resident in Panipat, would not suffer by Lala Khem Chand's omission. ·
(d) Government considers that the present procedure affords ample .faoilities to the public in the matter in question.
SuB-JUDGES FOR PANIPAT.
317. Lala Joti Parshad: Will the Honourable Member for Fin .anoe please state whether it is a fact that one of the Sub-Judges posted at Ka.rnal tries exclusively the cases of Panipat Tahsil? If so, will Government move the Honourable Judges of the High Court to post that Sub-Judge .at Panipat for the convenience of litigant public ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: Government. -is without information on the subject, but will bring the request made in the J1,att.er pa.,rt of the question to the notice, of the Honourable Judges-for such .action as they may deem desirable.
r
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : Government h39 no information on the subject. -
UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS'. 1osa
1 Footnote at page 9 9 antr.
ENCOURAGEMENT O.F UNAN SY~TEM OF MEI>IO~N
Sayad Muhammad Bus in : i Will the iH~n ura 1 · te f(?r Local Self-Government be . leasrd: to state :+- !
( ) if it is a fact that. a ~onsidera le ~ortion of thej ;11e pie i --- - - areasanclamaJontyofthe- ural1p.eopleprefer,tlfo na
of medicine ; I I I I I
.. :( ) the total average of area un ar cultivation dut'itjg he - · .. · ·harvest. in that tahsil ; i I i
_ ~- ~ ( ) how muc~ ~f the above area act1ally. matured ; 1 .
. ·. ~ . ~µether 1t is a~so a fact that the ~ahs1l had n~ r~1 gho t _ · _ · • · the last rabt season ; i · · - - I I ·
( ) whether it is also a fact that 1 cust-~ <lid conside~aijle ham o t ·e- standing crops ; , t -1 ·
• • I . I ! what relief Government prop ses lto grant to ~h~
_Sanghar tahsil ? · I • . i I . . C. A. B. Townsend : Ar ere:tjc.~has been rha'de to t loc l.
J:f;ic r_tf and on receipt· of reply an ans er· till be givenj i
O MUNAL REPRESENTATION IN T E !DUCATION ~E~A Tl\IE T.
Shaikh Faiz Muhammad : Will the Chief Secr.Iary kind I I •
I I ' ( ) if his attention has been dra n tp the letters jpv.b ishe in t e - Muslim Outlook of the 10 , .Uth and 15th 'Jun 192
beadings "Hindu Raj int e Punjab Educatio:b epa "-Minist1j of Education,' " Government ]nter edi lege, Ludhiana," relating to the recent appoin men
~ - - - in connection with the ope ing lofnew Intermedi te C .-( } whether the. facts and figure in ~hese letters aol n_ t in
complete reversal of the ac epted policy of Gpv~r men _ .. _ _ _ the past .six years in reg a d to I the commutjali p opo n.
·- -· - · the higher appointments f th~ Education Dep me () whether these facts have been rou~ht to the nof ic~ f His _ .. lency the Governor ; ! • I j
whether the Government a ppr ves jof .the changed !P icy _Musalmans are_ being exc de~ from all mgr.et ppoi in the Provincial and Sub rdi4ate services lin! t e E Department ? _ _ i I f
. B.D. Craik : I regret that t e answer to this jq~e tion et r a y. It will be oommunicvted to the! honourable] me be ead • I
ven e LAND REVENUE IN 8
• Shaikh Faiz Muhammad : em e kindly state :-
( ) the total amount of land reve tahsil of Dera Ghazi Kha fixed ?
i NHHAR TAHSIL. ; .
ill! the 'Honouritb1e .he I I
• I ' ue at present as~es~e on District and how m reh
! i
P.U.NJAll LE<,USLATI COUNCIL. I
[i22N, Jui 192 ..
. .,. __ -- 1-Vol. IX.A, page 852 amie.
(b) whether the Government !8 aware that. ce,rtain persons are selling and buying diplomas of Hakim Hazik and Zubd-tul-Hukm.a.
.of the Islamia College Tibia classes and are thereby deeeiving the :pu,blic ? . c - r < . '.' . -,. a" . ;
323. Sayad Muham~~dHusain: Will tlieHono~able.the Minister i?r LocalSelf-Gov.ermnent be pleased to state :--c.· ·
(a} whether the Government is aware;that certain persona are selling and buying bogus diplomas· and thus doing harm to the public health;
Boons MEDIO~L D1PtOMAs. ·
. ·· (b) whethei· the Gov~nment is prepared to consider the desirability of opening dispensaries and Matµbs Oil a _sm~l.l soale ~ cities
.. generally and in the villages particularly ; · · · · - · • , -- {c} whether the' Gov&nment isaware: of.the f~ct that the United
Provinces Government has conferred upon certified Taln'bs certain rights by .virtue of which the certificates given by them are recognised in the offices and courts ; -·
(d) whether the Punjab Government will consider the advisability _ _ of conferring the same rights on certified Tabibs in this pr.ovinoe;
(e) whether the Government will be pleased to move the local bodies · to open Unani dispensariesand Matabsin theilaqasunder their respective jurisdiction ; ·
(!) whether Government will be pleased to consider the advisability · .· of giving grants-in-aid to local bodies which have since opened
Unani dispensaries and have - employed Tabibs to work' in such dispenasaries ?
The Honourable :Malik F°U'OZ Khan, Noon: (a) Government are :a.ware that many people resort to practitioners of the Unani system of medi -eines.ibut they have.noevidence which would justify the conclusion that a majority of the rural population prefers that system. On the contrary, .the success which _has<attended the opening of rural dispensaries-cnearly .622,000 patients'.wel'e treated at them in.the calendar . year' 1926:-wtiuJd .appear to indicate that. where facilities for obtaining western medicahelief .are provided they· are eagerly availed of. . - ··:.·'
: · (b) and (J) In-view of the success which has attended the present policy ,of, Government .and the fact that the funds available Ior medical relief are limited, Government are not prepared at present to take the action sugges~ ted by the honourable member. ·
(c) Government have no information on the point.
(d) The honourable member is referred to the reply given -to question J9'p. 30301 in 1926. · · ·
_ (e) Government do not propose to interfere with the discretion of local bodies in this connection.
~- '
1087 UNBTARRED QUllSTIONS AND ANSWERS •
1 Yide ·-the footnot.e at page 69 akte.
I j
PUNJAB LEGISLATIV ?, . ....:
[22N Ju 19 r
, .1. l t' '-''ts; y d Mubamm~d Husain.] ; I I c)· if the answers to (a) and (b) re in the a:ffirmativ~, bet r Go •·
: ~:- r : . ;- · ei'nnieri.t will be pleased t take legal actibn ' 'gai SU h · persons ? ! I i
,;·Honourabi, Malik Firoz Kh ?Joon: (a) an~ (b) Gov re: :w e that allegations of this nat e have been made;' ut n
: nst,, - , es have been -~fought to their otic:e. : I J · e) If and when actual instances are rought to their n?t1ce Gov : e ·, · ider what "action is required I ; I !
~UNICIPAL COMM TTE~, CHINIOT. I l . Dr. Shaikh Mubainm.ad Al :' Will the Honour ble . al Self-Government be pleased O state :~ t j
a·.) ...•. •.if.he is awareo! the inad. e~ua e.rep.r~ •. sentation .. f. t_: h. M s ims n the Mumc1pal Committe , Chiniot ; j
.. :· I · I · bJ if the answer to question (a is lin: the affirmativ , w,h
does the Government pro ose ftol make the] r~pr sen Muhammadans proportio te ~o their numerica str
.... : . . . I . I .
e Honourable Malik Firoz , lNoon : (a) 1· Gov rnm hat according to the latest fig es tihe: Muslim .repr sent
· ot Municipal Committee is t i~ accordance !wit the orm la- o. ve ng th. e represent.ation of commu if.ies in nrnnicipa,:it~.es whi r · th e re o unal electorates. ! l •• _ i I
· ·· b) Steps are being taken to re ise i the rules sd s t ept e ~tation of communities in accor ance with the fo1jmpl •
i I ! I I I
LIEF TO THE PE?PLE OF MoNTGO ERYjAND MuLTAN1DfB RIOT
Sayad Muhammad Hus ' : f i11 the Honour ble b r be pleased to state _:- I · · l I
a) whet.her he is aware of th. e fac that considerabl~1 d~. age· . to the wheat crops in the istri~ts of Montg , mer an . ·· by the heavy dust storms which : blew int e r1 nths
and June 1927: I . I i b) whether he is also aware of t e f~ct that innumera le k lwaT
of wheat and several villa es wiere burnt by lfi~e a use I by t e · violent dust storms resulti g in!the loss of life an pro rty; .
e) whether he is also aware of the ~act that thJ wh le v i age f Rahmatwala, tahsil Dipal ur, district Montgome , w bur t and reduced to ashes by fi e caused by the d.n~t tor · res . t ing 'in loss of life and co pletr destructfoni of p ope t . ;
d) if the answers to parts (a), (b and; (c) are in thtj affir ati ~ wh t . _ action the Government pr pos~ to take in orrer t aff d rel ef
to the people of the affe ted )!,rea ? I • C. A. H. Townsend : A ref ren!e has been lm~d to t e lo J;
and- on receipt- of reply an ans :r 'Vill be _given.1 i
'.), (),_,_
CHOLERA.
, ~. Sayad -Muhanunad Husain : - (a) Wilftlie - Honourable Mi.nist~r for Local Self-Government be pleased to state whether he is aware ofthe faqt - that cholera is rapidly spreading" in the districts of Lahore, Montgomery and
- Multan? -
(b) If the answer to part (a) is in the a:ffu:mative, what special measures- - the Government proposes to adopt to cope with the epidemic ? · __
_ _ The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) Government· are: aware that asevere outbreak of cholera has occurred in the-Lahore district, and an outbreak 6£ · moderate , intensity in the 1\fontgomery district but there has been no outbreak of a.ny importance in the Multan district. '.l.fb.~ tmall outbreak - which occurred iii the M:ultan district has - been .completely ~ppressed .and the la.test reports from the Montgomery district show that
- no further cases are occurring.
(b) In Lahore city an outbreak attended by 31 cases and l8 deaths occurred on the 29th and· 30th June but as the result of the measures, t.aken by the Municipal Public Health Department the spread of the disease· has been checked and a. daily average of 5 cases only have been reported. during the last few days. - -
In Kasur owing to the refusal of the municipal committee to adopt ~y of the measures sugg~sted by the District Medical Officer .of Health,
- - coupled with the complete breakdown of the conservancy system, the epi- · demie attained serious proportions and it become necessary to issue orders. under the Epidemic Diseases. Act, 1897, empowering _ the Deputy Commis sioner and other officers . to do what the municipal committee should have 'done ir the first instance. Additional Medical Sta.ff and a Special Medical
· Officer of Health were deputed.to Kasnr and in consequence.of the measures. taken under the Epidemic -Diseaaes ,A.ct, the epidemic has been brought under QGntroJ and has now practically subsided, the latest report showing rnly three fresh Cfl,S0S occurring in one of the 'outlying suburbs. Lahore district has been \v:idely iniootEld from Kasur, but the Public Health Staff was strongly reinfbrced and-in most cases the disease was limited to' a few cases in each village. The latest 'reporte - - indicate that the position is well in hand; that many of the infected centres· a.re now. clear, and that the number-- of fresh-centr-es _i{3 s,t~dily decreasing. _,.
"COLLECTION OF REVENUE rn TAi'.rsJLS DJPAI;PUR .A~D 0l(ABA. .. a. Sayad· Muhammad Husain: (a} Is_ 'the Honourable Revenue-_
Member aware of the fact that. on account oi the prevaleaee of cholera, jfi the markets of Pattoke and Okara, the zamindars of the: tahsils Dipalpw,~ and Okara are unable to sell. their grain ? · _ _
_ , {b) .If the answer to parf (a) is in the affirmative, willthe Government kindly consider the, advisability of extending the date of. the collection· of, revenue in order to afford facilities of sale a_t- fullvalue ? , -. - ; ,
- iMr. 'C> A. H. Townsend: A reference has been made td the local officers and on: receipt oheply an answer will be given, · · ·' .
•• . t , I
UNST ABBED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
, I
~.UNJAB _LEGI~LATIV. CO{jNCIL. I
[i22N I
I :
nourable Malik Firoz Kha.n, No n.] , · ! ! :
e Montgomery district 'the on break was due tq ·iki epid used by infection of one of the rinqipal wells. Th~ 1 cal
·fies, ever, acted promptly and effici tly and, in consequeae the
tth ease was limited and now appea to have been defµiitel sto : .. rder to prevent an outbreak of c olera a.t Pa.kpatta.~ on the oasio . th ·. ual festival of Baba Farid d subsequent dis~e. · atio of t · ea e 11 over the province with. the . p~l of the crowds .a ten . g ·
sr, ecial precautions were taken an it is satisfactory itci b abl to r - ·frd h t as the result of these precaution onlt 'five suspected ea,s s of ole ,. . · ed, occurred at Pa.kpattan durin the1fair and only 'one f the cas
s 1. : I ! . orate arrangements are in exis eneei to supply a.dd~ti nal s ff
y is riot requiring help and Governm nt "(ill, make full use f th onfe · . · by the Epidemic Diseases· Act to deal with any I con inge ay ·a · e; · i . : I [
i . 11 CLostJRE os _Low_ER ~A 1 ~OAB CANAL. . j
. Sayad Muhammad Husam : Will the Honours . em e be pleased to state:- ! i :
a)whether he is aware of the fact at the Lower Bari Doa Can l as lo ed during the months of May d ~une for 2. ¢opsi .era I_ lo rio d that the cotton and vegetable rops·suffered through l ek o at
. . . . . I I I
b) If the answer to part (a) is in e a~m:>.tive wh~ther the p oposes to afford .relief to the sa dars affected th1r~by ?
. . .. J. B. G~ Smith: (a) The Up er Cheneb Ca.UP.., wa una . los rom 18th May 1927 to 31st Ma.y 927:on P.'JColmt of em rgen
epa. . eoessary for the safety of the c al. : As ra conse~u~nc of o~ r n. · J?oab Canal which is depen nt -~.'n ,_the Upper .r C
_ lso essarily closed. _ ! 1 j . j · vernment .has no information t at ~ny marked r 1· e ect -~ ~~~- J ) This does not arise: 1 ' ! I
. INTERMEDIATE COLLEGE IN TH . MONTGOMERY ,I~ OT.
. . Sayad Muhammad _Hu · : ('1,)1 :Will the Ho~1 ble 1 inist] r _ ueation be pleased to state :- . I .. ; 1· :
a) whether he is aware of the f ct $at there is ~ ~e de the Montgomery district r ·&p· Intermedia.~e: C lleg
b) whether he is aware of the act 1tha.t there ate :a out
. schools in the district wh oh srnd forth la.rte: n be dents who have passed t eir ,atriculation i eia · at
· c) whether he is aware that st den~s desirous ofJ 1::dg, er · · have found it difficult to out of their district I r th
· · of getting higher educatio ? ! I l
If the answers to (a), (b) and (c are! in the a~Jti e, ble Minister ~dly state wh ther j Government! are · pre - ....... -- 963 ante.
i I
I .
: I
UPPEn SUBORDINATES (RESIDUE) IN THE PuBLIO WoRKE! DEPARTMENT, IRRIGATION BRANCH.
330. Sayad Muhammad Husain : Will the Honourable Member ~ for Revenue be pleased to state :-
(a) whether he.is.aware of the fact that Upper Subordinates (Residue) of the Public Works Department, Irrigation Branch, have not been promoted either to the Punjab Engineering Service or to the Sub-Engineer Grode, · after 1st Februray 1928 · and that due promotions of good many · deserving subordinate officers of this establishment have been overlooked with a lot of discontentment and heart- burning amongst them ;
(b) whether he is aware of the fset that - a good number of . the Upper Subordinates (Residue) of the Irrigation Branch. are inchsrge of sub-divisions for the last few years and are fulfilling all the. conditions as laid down in Chief Engineer's Circular No. C.-1645-E. I., dated 18th August 1921 and subsequent letter No. 9406/28-E. I., dated 16th. December 1925 without having been promoted to the Sub-Engineer grade;
(e) whether it is.also a fact that promotions to the Sub-Engineer grade in the Buildings and Roads Branch in the Province are being annually given ;
(d) If the answers to part (a), (b) and (c) are in the affirmative what action the Government contemplates to redress the grievances of the Upper Subordinates (Residue) of the Irriga tion Branch ?
1Mr.J. B. G. Smith: (a) (i) Yes. _ (ii) No case deserving of promotion has been overlooked. (b) A certain number of Upper Subordinates (Residue) though no!
in all respects qualified, have necessarily to be employed in charge of Sub Divisions in leave vacancies, While so acting they receive a. Sub-Divisional ,alll'wance d Rs. 75 per month:-~·-=~ -,, .
(c) Promotions · to Sub-Engineer Grade in .the Buildings and Roads Branch are only given when men are considered fit-for permanent charge of Sub-Divisions, but cannot be promoted to the Provincial Service of Engineers on account of lack of vacancies in the latter service.
(d) Any Upper Subordinate in the Irrigation Branch who has been, or is considered fit in all respects for promotions to the _Sub-Engineer has already been, or will _ be promoted . to the Provincial Service of Engineers so
1 Vide footnote at page 969 ante.
:make provision in the next yea.r's budget for the opening of an Intermediate ·Oollege in the Montgoxqery, district ? .
- The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a} Yes •.. - · . (b) Yes, ·but he is- not aware that large -number of students· from the
.distrisf go to Colleges, and it has to be noted that an Intermediate College
.also enrolls matriculation class students. (c) No. (d)' The claims of Montgomery will be considered alongside of similar
clsims from other localities.
1041 UNSTARRED QYESTIONS A~D ANSW~S.
-- ~Vltle ft>ottrntl! on page 969 qnUJ. · 'Page 723 ante. i ,
' PUNJA1f LEGISLATIVE 'corrxorr..
! i I , i ' r~2'N i ;
. 1, ! •
g s a~oies are available in. tha_t s ic~_. So Ion_g a~ ·th_ :e1ife : - )h' no n ess1ty to make promotions to the i Sub-Engineet graije s ce.
uali tions_ required for promotion to ithe~ Sub-Engineer I de O to :ro · e al Service of E~gineers are !4imil in !all respects. j
I I
GRANT OF LAND IN T E NILi BAR. !
Sayad Muhammed Husain : win the Hodour le · ti be pleased to state- ! . I : .
( ) whether it is a fact that in t e. y~a1; 1922-28, th~ om _ - - - Officer of different battali s were called upbnj t rec
suitable candidates for th _ grant of land qn lh If-re conditions and out or the Ii t prfpared in the lcolo y so accommodated and others were not accomniodated _ a lists are I;ring pending in th col?nf <;>flice ; - ! f
n t.h'e answer-~o t~e above Jj~ i th1 ~ffirm_ative, w~-~~ ernment_ will kindly consid r t~ell' claims re!o.rch of la~fLin the Nili Bar? •
1 I I
, C. A.H. Towns~ncl: A refe enoejbas been ma{letto the ioner, Montgon;ier~·, whose reply has not yet been ~e~ei · ed.
• , . '. ~c · ! . ! ! n NSI<'ER OF Sus-Junoas To ExT A A$s1sTANT Cor.tMiss ONE '
. ~ Khan Sabi~ Khan MuhVAD F~d isaifullah ., (a)' hief e retary be pleased to state whet er it iis a fact that: a lar e u~- uges is being taken as Extra ssis'.tant Commtss~o ers xee ti · e Branch ? , : . :·( ~·• ~ so, c~o the Gove1:mnent int_e_ 1! __ to ]p_Jt as m~n.0E:xi a
' sroners m exchange in the Judici 1 branch? ,, I I
·-· ( ) If not, how do the Government proJos~ tv conipeps~t tho ssis a t Commissioners who would b adversely affecte~ _ b _ th ent o ed changes? i ' l
• H. D. Craik : ( a) The hono able: member is r~fe rred r ply gi en to question No. 2266, put b Lala Bodh Raj[ i
(b) No. ; : ( ) Government is not aware that · uy Extra Assista1t
1C mmi ione 8' e a v rsely affected. 1 ' ,
I . ' I
MEMORIALS OJ.<' STENOGRAPH RS To~GOMMISSI N~R • ~ .-ct,= I Khan Sahib Khan Yuh /· - d - Saifullah -
: ble the Revenue M-erliffer be pl sedlto state:- i . . ,. '( } ,vb.ether it is a fact that Ste graphers to Commiss oner
' ... _ - Punjab submitted a memo :ial lo ~he Goverrimen in 1 926 · - -1 , I I
' > ' 1- I I ( ) if so, whether the Governme · waa pleased to cq~id rth
rial ; , 1 ·i f .- l 1i
---- -· -----"---!,.. ------+~--l,.:..;--'--+-1-,;,......;'--+'- -i
.. _ -. . _ RE1WA.R1>!',I Fo:a·H.()NEST ~6LIOE OFFIOEiis:, ·- -_
,,t>< aatf ;KJian-Saliib.'~ Muh~d Saiunah: Khan: Witttlie- l:Ion!)ura;ble the Finan_ce.:Meinbar be pleased t'<> state- - - .. ' - :{a): whether it ~ a;-fact t"hat·certain corrupt police offic~~>liave been,
punished ; . ;.. - · · - (b) "7'hether - Government. ~o_nsi(iered thl3'-:tllvisabi;lit_y 6£ awarding
· .. · - .. _ rewards forµonesty_to.11(}lice qffi-Offl'&-;_ __ . - ,- .- ........ -•-- -- - ··_- __ - . . {c)° the .names .- of thoae P,olice· officers wi~h cl.esignatfo~. who .liayff
.- .}f{,~).~·~·~.:,.:i "been ~eward_edf?r-}h~ir honesty? · ·
. .
:. ' . UN_STAJm1ilI>:Q,VilSTlONEi' AN]) ANSWilfRS~
-: :<\;(::: Jct the"tcE!Suft~:ai ~6h°"c6hsiderittfon; if ant? -: : . ~'?., '~1·~ c.; A. it"Towm.•cl; (a) and (b) Yes .
. . .. :~~? ~ove1·nm.ent were rt6t.prep~~d to accede to _the requeste made.
. -- REVISION OF :SALARY O_F STENOGRAPHERS' •.
·/~~ _·_334., Kimi Sahib Khan .Muh.-DJmad Saifull•·-1.bmi: Will-_the' _ )Horiomabfo the Revenue· Merober·b~ pleased to state:~. -. , __ .. ··.•- <;
_ .. Ji,,'.':). (a)iwbether it is· a fa.ct- that the scale~f p1ty-- of stenogiaphef:s ~tJa~hM: · .. ,q;~~.,_~, ,- j~·fJo the Directors of lndustri~;Agticult~e,and LandRecoM~:
.. ;;si;!~l~g~'!~~£~~1i::iat:~~w~-;i~~~. -,._, - :i frf·',.: -' • - 'the sealaol' pay:.of Stenographers ,"to· Corninissi9zj.ers ·in the-- .
. . ----- , Punjab, is the. lowest ; · - · .: · '::i;.) ( e) If so, the reasens fo~'this -difference in face' of the.sifuil~rity of the· , . • _ _ teQlmro!tl · qnalificatiqns: ? _ _ -. _ ·
; :. ·_ 1.Mz,~ c; A. .IL Townsen~ ; .. (a) and (b) Yes" _-
: __ -; : -,-/ /?/:: :~fo_ !J2h~_ difference is d:ue-_t~ t"be quality of the wo;J ~bich h;·=to :.-,·;_<-_t:,·:p~<>rmed in ~he various __ offices_ .. a.... · -- .. ·. -- ·
·;,t(:~~~~~~~i~~::~~~t~;p:~t~~~tt,~ •. : .f_,,;.• ·:.~ {a) whet.he! bill aml ·£amily travelling ~ifow~nces ahi0 allowed'
.: - stenographers attached to the offices of ·Financial . Commie- - sioners a,nd, the _CjvifSecretariat; ;:: - .i:
. _ fb) the reason for, disallowing. hill.and. family travelling allowances" _ to Stenographers to Commissioners ? · ·
<- !\fr. If. D. C'r.ajk : (a) Ye_s. -; - ; <. ,_.. (7J). Comnnssi<>liera ar!3<>nly allowed to recess ata bill :station; _ Gbvern-
-<" ~ent:.:.eon.$iders that· th:e extra expenditure caused to. Government hy the . >:,, permissfon_.to recess in .t~e hiUs, shouldbe kept a,s low as possible. For this- , . : ,>,Jeasqn Comrriissionets like others recessing officers" and their establishments:
{ incl_UdiJ.lg stenograp_hers are allowed travelling" allowance for one journey -'..,:·j~@:Y{L-.:--- ·. - - -- - - - - - __ :.: .
for
ber
- MusALMAN INSPECT R oi,• SCHOOLS. I i . Shaikh Faiz Muhammad : <h Will the :ijo~oJ~abl , Mini ter
:for E ucation be pleased to state :- i I ~ I ,
(a) whether he is aware that l\ usalmans consti~u~e s· p cen . of the population in Multa Division; 1 , •
(b) whether it is a fact that usalmane in this! ~li ision are , ery _ . . backward in education ? . ! _ .I I j. - (i) Ifanswersto(a) and(b) a_bove reiljl'theaffirmat~ve, illt
abl · ister kindly state whether hei ten~s to keep a_ ~Iisa,man ?f e ools incharge of t~e division un il ~us~lmans haye :mlde a rm r vement m education '! . ! ! ,
e Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal i: (a) and (b) "The acts are ap r ximately as stated by the hono able member." 1 '
_ ( ) " Government will bear in min the'honourable fl~m er_'s gges ion,
e nnot co =:~::~'.~~,:::·: ,::::~·.. I i _ 1
• Sardar Bari -Singh : Will the Honourable thd r ~ d lay a statement on the table owing-e- I '1
(a) the names of persons who erei awarded ca11ital uni - - -- off enees committed agai ,i-tli<!iltate 'since f aniry I
of l cal
inc to ospi als
Coll ge don in
I j
1 I I ~ l
COLLEGE OF IND AN MEDICINES. j I · I i
. Mr. Din Muhammad: ill lthe Honomr· lJJe al Self-Government please' state _ I ; J
(a) whether it is the intention f th~ Government ~o pen of Indian medicines in t is province also, ~s 'ha be other provinces-like M dras' and Bibar.! -1
(b) whether he intends to ask he Loe_· al bodies _!in1 t , e _ pir encourage ' umomi ' med cine~ by opening! 'Ju ani '
_ and employin~ qu~lifiecl ' hakims "? I i r, e Honourable Malik F:aroz an,I Nooii: (a)/ Qo, ern
no s h intention at present. . · i i • I i _ . ( ) Government do not propose t interfere with the dis ·reh
bo ie in the matter. 1 i ' !
for
i e _ Honourable Sir Geoffrey Montmorency : ; ( a) Yes Government already rewards onesty by prombt~o - of n w th
unb e 'shed reputations regardless of seniority. \ :· (e Government does not propose o publish names.: i S NITARY Th{PROVEMENTB TO MoH LLA;G-pRDIT SINJH, TIAHO
• _ ,Sarclar Narain Singh: w· I_ th(l Honourable!l\iiiiJster ·S!3li G vernment kindly state if the Go ernpi~nt has rec~iv.edl any n~t ce served on the S~cr~tary, L~hore unieipal Comnuttee,f t. tan s f Mohalla Gurdit Smgh, Shish M halRoad, Lahore, ~e est
· tak i imediate steps to improve the d ain,1ge and gener~l '.sa 'tat .sai ohalla '! ' i
e Honourable Malik Firoz an )Noon : No. :
[ 22 D J Y 19 7.
· •- 343. Sardar Hui Singh : Will the Honourable .the Finance Member · please state- · · ' - · -
. :(a) -if it is a.fact 'that-a Sikh procession taken out to celebrat; 'the Rola Festival at Shahabad, District Kamal, on the 19th March, _
· 1927, was .dispersed by force by the Police as no 'license had been previously obtained to take out the aforesaid procession ; ·
(b) whether the Government is aware that the right of taking out this -- procession without license has been enjoyed by the. Sikhs of Shahabsd from time immemorialand that no objection wa.s ever raised by the authorities to their taking out a procession ..
jvitJiout license during the past ; l _
HoLA FESTIVAL AT SnAHABAD.
PUKKA ROAD BETWEEN JAGADHRI AND BII,ASPUR •.
342. Sarclar Hari Singh : Will the Honoui·able the Minister f~r - Agriculture be pleased to state if any proposal for construeting a pukka road between Jagadari and Bilaspur is receivingthe consideration of Government.
The Honourable Sardar Jogendar Singh'.: ThEf answer is in the · negative.
POLITICAL PRISONERS. . . . -
341. Sardar Harl Singh : Will the Honourable the Finance Member· kindly lay a statement on the table showing- . ._ (a) the names of all political prisoners now undergoing imprisonment
who were convicted and imprisoned for offences committed. . against the State : -
(b) the offence with which they were charged and the sections under, · · which they were oo~victed ;
(c) the sentences passed against each and the period each has served. , up till now ;
(d) their present -places of confinement; (e) their state of health and the diseases, if any, they are suffering ~
from; (f) the elates on which they are due to he released ?
, The H~nourbable Sir_ Geoffrey deMontmorency : A statement will be prepared and communicated to the honourable member as soon as possible. ·
_ (b) the offences they were charged with ; (c) -the dates and places of their execution?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmoreney : Government is . only prepared to furnish the number of persons executed and the sections of · the law under which they were sentenced to death. Details will take time · to collect, but· the information will be communicated to the honourable member as soon a~ possible.
1040::, UNSTARRED "QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
Si
}'.UNJ,\B LE<HSLATIV_ cotJNCIL. t:22, n Ji,
a Hari Singh.] _ : , ! [ (c) the reasons for which it was found necessary to :at aok
perse the procession by fo e t~is year contr~rf t the non-interference adopted · thej past ; ! l .
(d) whether it is a fact that the oliee attacked t~e ~r cessi · it had peacefully passed hrol,g~ the. City arid ther
danger of any breach of t e pefCEl ; I ! . e) whether it is a fact that th po~oei acquired !tlie elp
non-Sikhs armed with lat is who, beat the ~a:ng t m oiles y · a~d. desecrated the Gurd araf by going ab·Jµ.t ou i s fl or· with shoes on ; I : [ :
· .n what disciplinary action has eenl taken again~t th offi · ls r ·s ponsihle for this interfere ee with the 1iglits i of the , ikhs of Shahabad? : I i
' I I
e Honourable Sir Geoffrey d Montmorency : ( (~) ers o ·._ the procession were warned that[ a .processionl co.
·u d unless they took out a license ; ut , they refused t~ do o. ssi was taken out without· the Poli e being informe?, I a d it
, ibly spersed after it had been warn d by the SupJrintJn ent .and er a license bad again bean offere. and refused, I l
I : . ,
b) No one has a right to take out procession withdu~ a licen Poli e all upon him to take out a licen . I . j i
(c) A license was considered neees ary ?_ wing to the !co.1· . una ,prev 1 t in Shahabad. · i : I I ~
· _ ( No, the process. ion was disperse by tb£iPolice afte~ it bJad b p ortunity to disperse volunta · y. ! [ !
(e No, the allegation is unfound 1 - 'Jlh~ minimnnj f?r e re · the procession was lise~ and on~ vas St;riously! b ate~
n but Sikhs were allowed anywher near the platfonb qf heG I . .
. f) No case exists_ for disciplinary action. i
! I •
ARRJ)ST . OF D~. BAK SHI~H SINGH.
· Sarclar Bari Singh : Will t e Honourable tbt . · anee plea e state- ! : !
. a) if it is a f~ot that Dr. Ba shish Singh, son LofiS ib h, of Mauza Sbabzadpur of tah il Kharar in Ambaila dist i t, w s
. arrested oy the Police, bale.I and procluo~_d! before he e puty Inspector-General of Poli?e • (C.I.D.) ; I : . .
b) whether it is a faot that his tatements were r!l(l9r .~d b officers o.f the C. I. D; ; i / I
c) whether it is a faot that he as arrested in oonh tion ith manufacture of bombs a d C$rtain COllSp~aoie all • hat wa._s released as no ease co d heipr:oved a~in!lt
1 ' ;
(d) whether the Punjab Gove en~ cpntemplatjs !a pr eeu · n . against the- said Doctor I · J
I I
e Honourable Sir Geoffrey de onJmorency : 1 (~)
as arrested by the Ambala P lice -in,· I j 1923.1· e~-e I ' , - I ; l ! : : i ! !
I i ; I :
. , . _:-~~-~ ._; ··,.:_-:·/'"··
--~----:-. ,:,-" .· . ·.,~- .
····':".>~<:.· .• ,•:;. __ -- _:_:"._~;~:-::' _.._.:;.c·
i:; .·:- ·;:.-~~,,~: ~~---11>)-"jvhethei:h&' intM(ls t"o. dpen '._'-_a,n".Ittteime~i-66ll,e®·-)ii-:t}Je - ·- · --:/· __ ··-· {
s~!_ ·>t. ~-:. -~;r:
~~J)?
,1
1Pagcs 970-972 sue, !
BPage 986 ante . , •Vide footnote t page 969 a~. 'Page 727 ante !
I
/
' i e Honourable Mr. Mano Lal: The honours le
to the answers to Council q estions Nos. 417~ · tu 452
COMPENSATION TO OWNERS ~F LANI>S I>AMAGED I Bk . Mr. Din Muhammad: W 11th~ Honourable!}\I~ her se state- i I j
(a) whether Government has ted land in i Ja nwa Lyallpur district, to t e ptoprietors of i R;ot Jan Ba sh, .
. Chakanwali, Paleh and attbnwali villages of tahs( abad, district Gujran ala,i as their ! Ian s h
· damaged by " Sem . " ! i i 1.b) whether ·the proprietors of aid pm: Sehgal -whiph is q
. to the above-mentione villages whose I Ian s ar affected will be treated · the' same manner an wh
... . : . . I :
(e) whether Government has co sidered the questipn o com the owners of lands in g nera] whose land~ *i. e be by " Sero " on account of he advent of Canale f.>
• i ! I . C. A. B. Townsend : (a) Government acqllfr~ he · ages of
. Ch k wali, Paleh, Kot Jan Bakhsh a cl part of village Phat anw for he p se of an experimental reelamatio scheme of waterlogge la . ere·
-for a re exchange was sanctioned as a special case. Th¢ vill ges e in he· W · bad and not in the Hafizabad hsil] i ! •
) and (c) Government does not dmi~ legal liabiliiy Ito pro i e c m-· ltl.UJ:11111~·.·IUn to those who have suffered froni waterlogging ~ro G ern t
: but it is anxiously eonsiderin th~ question of [prov ding elief for BU u:fferers so far as possible. A al decision as to !the atur and the· e en of the relief to be offered ha not' yet been reach . Sai p Sehgal to which the honourab e m~mber refers is jS rda in _ Wa.zirabad tahsil : its lands ere 1ot •. required fol'. rl t e e
tion scheme. " · I .. - '· ~EGULATION OF ocotjN'Js BILL. . . ! i .
9. Mr. Din Muhammad : Will the Honourable Mem er f state whether Government has dropped the ided, Qf tro tion of Accounts Bill ; if not, w isl it likely to bj' bro ght
il? i I ' I I :
e Honoural>le Sir Geoffrey eMbntmorency j: ! T e er's attention is invited to the r pliel1 given by mel ttj·. nesti s
dW~ · j: • , I j i
OmcULAR REGARDING Entrca IONAL OFFICERS AND E ' . ' I i
PUBLI TIONS. j j
. Mr. Din MnbaroriJad: (a wm the Hono~abl ister e tion. please state whether it is fa~t that Mr. ~~dle , la. e Dir or-
blio Instruction, issued a. Circular isspproving of th:e p ctice f Ed ea- 1
·PUNJAB LEGISLATI E COUNCIL.
llisIYAT TAX~ · 354.,., Raizada.;-Hans .Raj : . (a) . Will .the Honourable , the Minister·'· ·
for);~I .Seli~-GoV-ernment.be pl~sed to state whEltherthe (%vernmerWis e.w~.!i~t the. hasiyaftax, as levied by the 'district boards has'oeeii. ·decla'r~f,,t' illegal by competeilt civilcouifai1n-~o mstricts .. of. the "Pwljah ~- · · · ~ ··
(b) If so, .is it the fo:tentioi>.tof the 'G~-vernment to refund the tax illegally , covered or to leave it to individuals to recover the same by legal action?
G
. . - ·.· APPoIN'r'MEN'.li-oF •:VAOOThMi:FoR-s;·. -
<asa. :IW'.Sahib Lala Ganga Raio :'fa) Will the<Hono~~bls the Minis ter for Local Self-Government be pleased ··to state whethe.i-1-there are any general rules or bye-laws with regard to tha, ·appomtriient of vaccinators.
. by the municipal committees ? . (b) If so, will the Honourable Minister- please lay a copy of the rules
or bye-laws on the table. -e "~ ~- "-.s... . - ~ ., · •· _ .• · :_:_:: .
The Hmiourable Malik I moz--' Khanr-N"n : -(a) No. (b) Does not-arise. -, :.c. --. , · · · · ·
MusLni:· R~~~SENTATioN . IN BRA~OR. -DrsPENSA.R~Es, .. ·
::·-352.!;:Mr~DitiiMuhammad=::'.(a) lifu;s:the iJ,-ttention,of_the Honourable Minister-: for: LOCVil,. Sielf-..,Qov-ernment beea. drawn to an ' f!,rticle -in the . daily- . \ lnqj,fiib;-d~te~l :22ndc JUile1.lW7,,.·wh~rein.'tfaots· and- figur~-have · been ·given., to ilhow:o; that in :the bmnch,<lispensa.fi~ of ·Multan,-Ly11,llpur;Montgomery,.. 1 .. Bheikhupura, Gujranwala, La/bor~ ;ood·. -Fetozeporie-- ii-istrre-ts, ete., all. the- ... doctors employed are Hindus ; ·
(Z,)_;whet:g~ li!) ~int~-4~ ~_()_ .ta~~ ste:ps to replace some of the Hindu doctors by Mus..,i;Imans, in the- loca.lities ebove-menfioned V : · · - · -
The Ho.i~urable0 Miillk~Firi>z·KJum;··Noon;:r{a) Yes,,.buti·-the state-- menl~ is· incorioot~: . < .-:: - •
" "(b)_. Does not· arise: - .· " '
TEXT Boon Cofun TEE. :
r: 3Si. -1\'h. O~ Muh~ad ; Will the;_ orio~ble i,fuiister for':_ Edttca.-. tiim please state:whE3t4edt 4i. a. fact tha:t p ctically-the whole, of the 'work •, of .. t4e Tett ,:Bo9;k .-c~tt~· is. being- mmi°opo~d ~Y'¥:indti· Publisne~'?'· \/l'herHonour-abla,&,. Manohar Lal: - .The work.·of the Te~:'t Book:.;-_
Committee fa. done mi a contract' basis, and the present contractors are:-. Bai Sahib Munshi Gulsb fingh and Sons, but tbooks of other publishers. are freely considered on their ~arits ~by t~e 'J!ext Book Committee and, authorised for :usiHn school ·15y ; the ··neparlm~t on ~-the" rooomrliendation. of cthe- ,T:ext Boek Committ~e~
I Mr/Din•MuhS:~ad.J T - _ tional Officers lertdin-g,·their-·•ria,mes··to;·.pma.,_e -puh'li<ltlltiofls ·without 'i]ilif:'pr@W'
-·vions eonsent ? - · , · . r. (b)._ If SQ,.tha.ve. those,rinsti,retions,i-eon ined-in .tha·t Ciroula.rr-·beoo-•·en-
fo{Q~ dwrin.g, ,(J,rn 'Iai!t.; three -Y~ts ? r: - . - - - - • . • . ~ . ' - ~ I . • '· • • ' • . . . . . - . • •
The Honourable Mr. Manolwrrl.ali•: (a) -No, , . • (b)-.D~ not.a-rise~
i
I-
-ivickpage 380 11,te.; _I Vitle foot no a.t ~ge 969 a.nte.
_ a V ilk page V64o cmlfl, I · . · - .·~·" .. .:. ·i ,_ . ..,. ..:::. ,.,;_ - _.
-- ·_-f RESOL U'J!IO §> 4
11-· PUNJ.A:B LEGISLATIVE O Nf1j• [ 2lir--fULY
ODourable · MaJik - Fll'oz Kh Noon : The ono ,referred to-the reply to-·unsta.rt que' sti.·on No. 183.~ _- ·-----~~
- 1. , 1, I, _ BEGAR. _. Raizada Hans Raj: (a) Will the Honourable] the
be _ b( pleased to state whether th · Go"tremment is ~~ar ~is t itll 0is still prevafont in this pro · ee ? ' I 1
i :
(b)--H w- many Government officials ave! been punis~e~ urin -fiv y rs for making use of this syste ? : _ • i i (c) • __ t s_ tep_· a, _besid_es issuing eircula s · ha~I•. •- ~.he Gove~mbn -tak to
to ~his system:? . - ! 1 I _-,· - _- -~ - - . , I , 2 ., C. A. H. Townsend : (a), (b) nd (c). The word '.' begar ' has
, se cw! m · gs and until the honoura e member·-aefiries\ e e the ]mejlninJL]lallfil'e a.ttribl!tes to the word I egret J cannot pto'1id ct
;- i ! I I ,
. tz: :; ~~AI !;;; tdt~=:r±; Re be e pleased to sta.te when it· is in end!hl to open a !rail ay Ko · · the Ludhiana. District. _ j ' I I
· 2 ; w.s. Dorman: Enquiries ma B from the Rail-tar uth . w· t a. it is intended to carry out a ra.ffi~ reconnoisa.:qc~ o the bo a y lines joiningLudhiana, Feroze ore, iBhatinda and Ji)h ·,
· fi.el& season _ and, as Bai Kot c mes within this ~rea, its by a railway will be duly con derer. i I i
- J I , D -. ~u Y COMMISSIONER,- HISSAR AND Su -D1irswNAL OFJldE - - - - - - - - - - .- , -- _- - . , i ; I i
"~- · ·:till~-Bod.Ji ijaj:·Will the Obie Sec,rBta,ry please ~tat . H if.it is a fa,ot th~t the- Deput - Comi:nissioner, ¥i4sa - an
Sub-Divisional Officer, Birsa, a. e both !Muha.mma.~a.ha; > it the attention of the hono le jne~ber has I ~a w·ili®ted.
to the complaints of· the du~ of Sirsa a.ga.~s _ the - -(eombina.tiQn,? ·If-so, what a. tion! ha proposes ~o take on
" earning these complaints? :. I j - 1· D.- Craik: ·(a) Yes. I
/ .
T:S-AINING_ IN BOIIOOLS-A.ND COLLEGES •
. introduced in-other countries ofthe world with.a view to providing·faoili-' . tie!l for mental ~d pliysiQaldevelopment of the children. - I was describing : some of the feature$ ,of the- reforms introduced in Italy. one of whichwas th~
strict selection- of ~ndid~tes. t-or the UI\ive~ities:,which. should ~Qt· be~QY~:r-; crowded with' unsriit~ble studeiits; .Another -iilatur~ was t6r ptoviding
. moral and phyBi~l educa.'tio~ which should receive far greater a,ttention - - ithan .before and which should constitute the:-ultimat_e .aim of :a.11 trainin.g) -
~Further, .religious-:educati6n should be restored_ in primary .sehools; and:. . Jlastly state ,µionopoly sllould . cease. snd. education. should be open· to. private··
· "~terprise. .In all. soho_ols-in-Ita.1y playing :or coll~tiv~·games was considered · ·t ;·_:iiQbe v~ry essential .anc1·-r~oeited special ~ttimtioµ; lli England: tlie_Eduo~~
>·;tion,Aet'of-1918 gay~·speoial powers and duties-in:regardtomedicaf tr~1i;; · >> .-merit and--iri.structiori, - -It · also gave_ Iooaledcea tional a.uthoxities ex.ti:lrtded · - .·',-, :-po~s for re-inforcing ins.truotion in phjsiool ~tl social'-si<liv'by m.oonir
- '-()~ providing holidays and. school camps; by_ providfog ga.;mes a.nu centres of equipment for .physioal training, playing fields, school swimming · ba.thi
- and othe{facilities for social and physical training in the d~y and in the . evening. --Tu the United States of Ameri<m public ·opinio:i:ds very sensitive :
tfio the need of children, , - . ..·. · . · - - · . · .• , - . . . · · - - · ... ·_-A ;ery}nt~resting not~.appeared the other' day in tile Oivtl and Militar'fi
.. ·Gazette. Mmit'.of the·.honouta,ble·._menibers-musthave.perused-it~ In·_ - Anierioa, ahrfost in all the - stat ea, physical edue;itio~is_ compulsory: There
:-'are':special.department~ of.'physical education 'and hygiene:with directors . a ·il).Structors, _doctors .and-. special coaches -Jor . eve!y game •. Special __ ~ ·teachingJs given in i!ports, , Huge sums of money· are spent every ye~ on - .
. .: . - gaines and physical education •. - :In ·Japan; gre1tt reforms have been intro-: - :,;.'duced with regar~ to:physical education and I ,Callilqt d9 bet'ter than quote : ·
· ,· 1:ftq:rn: •it· very inter¢sting ar1icle by John Nicholson. •.. _He says- · u The stress · le.id on physical training is cliara.ot.eristically Japanese. · The eduoa.tion
- - of old Je,pan was predominantly physioa.1 and moral. anc:1-hanits of courage: and se]f~ontrol were formed by means of ~ction in the ancient spirits of_.
- - wrestling andjod~ .. This_ physical tra.~ lilerged 'inlperceptibly into epecifi. cally military exercises; Archery is still ve.J.u:ed.ali ~ sport, 'and so is a. kixur of fencing .with large wooden Iances, It is o'ii:tious to se1ni.Jl these exercises ~;
~ ~rried on'. at the Kol,e commercial school,iot exa.mple side_ by side with'· ·. 0 tenrus, foot~ an.d base ball. It. i'Jan lla.rdly be an.aooj.denttha1. physical,'
, r fitness and ability is so. highly valued in J:a.1)11,ri. Rere· as-in'-ma.ny otlier ways~ , - the Japanese have compensated for their natural disabilities by tJie develop-,,
ment of qualities which outweigh the~; small stature is off set by a high degree: :_ : -· ,, - . of courage., control and physical skill/• . - -. - . . . ~ - -, -
•. ·:--:0 ¥f. Hogg-IJp00:king on physicaLeduca.tioti de~~ibes,- •.• there- can ·be' . no 'pa1;f ofthe worlu. more Jacking in tl;iat respe~t'than that of India who with~
····· .. ~1.Lher- t~eµri'.iig,p<>pulatipn itµdJ:~er ancient ~ivilizatfon,has:yet done little·- . . }>-;. · fa really · grappliiig<with the· problem · of physica1~~d'trc11:tionY : It·. is high '> :
.·. - -,, ' .. time,:Sir,_th1:1,t we should set to-the t_ask seriously.,..set to thetas~:of securing; ·:/~>,physical vreU~bemg ~four youth: c - '. • - /·;: > -·. -: _ .· 1 - , · - ">> W~tltregardto gn;ls; thefrpositio:hisstill more deplorable than that oi1
;. tlle boys.· ·w~·-are p-assirig through :a stage of tran,sitfo~Wom,en in Iridia~r : . · ~Jld' mor~~-.specially m this provin,ce-hav:e, giveri ·lip· or . are-giving up -theft - •· damestic work-\Vµich provided sonj;e exercise and th~.l;iaye· not taken toT •· :0,utdqor gail'.J.'eS-inst~ad, with the- 'dettjniElnta.l: l'esuIV01Ltheii'-iliealth. Six,·.,;_. I ha.ve-·bronght-forward this resolfltionra very- ~og.erate resolution, which J . does.not ·.fo:v:olve•compttlsion 11.t.once.'···Jt only-asks forli. eo:g:im.Ht~e•to 6e ·-
G2
1051. BFJSOi;tl''tION. RE INTRODUCTION OF- COMPULSORY .PlIYSIOA.L
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. . . ' . · .. : :,•:· ·. i::. ·;:
l'UNJAB LEGISLATIVE c UNOlL •
L ~--
. . . .- . . . .. - - ·-:. ' . '•: ·- - . ~ : ' . ~ -·. : .- : . : . · ,, I have now spoken of the measures which have be111 ad:o:pted-to pr9'.niote
~t~e ~p,alth and ph:vsfoal devc}opmant. of the_ pupils in "our ,seho\l!s.. The Jf~.y Scout m•)vemerit has also heensuccessfnl in c'incoftraging the playing of gaJ,rtes
.--ind in providing means of healthv recreation ; . hut t.h,}t b:y itself is. not s~ -m-ent. We nearl also, as my £rie'iid has suggested; a sound and m~thod."i'diil
_,.sy~te~ of physical training with excercises graduated in ·such ~ VJay_ as to )titit tpe weak 11,nd-the·strong, the yodng-a~d the old. It.is_n~ss~_9tJ!o : Jo ~st more than we have done in the past" on tl;te, ~\scipline o~: w~r9l4.pg ; :Mni·good bfoatlimg_exercises ire also requirM. The rihrclifug ll.rid the-~~~
·.·: . ; :._ -, . . . ' ' ' · ... _,_ . - -- ·~ ~- ~ -
,rreferred a ppreeiati vely to tha,t movement. In days _ goA,.a,- _ qy lY·E) _ ~cxo.c~¢,'11,t~,d-' _ ::'1ittiJatj91-1: ve~ largf,l}y m1 t}le hf)l/liµg .Qf tqum~llW;+is.,J)y.~ y,e M9 J#!Vf!~rntjpg -·to substitute " Play-for-all " in place of ''. tqWr!Ja~Ats-J9~-a -~_few: " ... : :W;e, , have been to some extent successful. In the vast majority of schools, the , boys play. ganies.-every day in the. year; ai:id,thi:s •i pl~y,for~alL" movement' · isJ _ already_ reaching t1he villages: where, not o'nly - schoolboys but · rulso the --villagers t'ake 'pa~ in healthy recreation. . .
--:..:-~.- ·-rr_ .. :,,·_· .. -r ~fl -, . ·_t; ·:• ' i ' -;·:;;: _•:''..-~r~ .. :···· .:;:·r-:·-·•t ·;_ .'.: '. :_:: i·!·, ·:c - I ~- ve:ry•glad also that :iny friend has referred to the importan,t ~t~~
-<!f medical inspection and to the need of its introduction. As a matter of -t,.~t. Yfe h~-y.e, 9.8'4 a:i,,sy-13~em pf medical in,sp~tion in.-sch~ols}?"r w.any:,years , p):lt, -~5>:rtunately,. it,~as y.pt been very ilu~c~sful ~~ its sco:peJias .b,een:fl¥ _ t?P.Jimited. __ :'.l'he, :Me~cal .Inspeetors havepn~Eect~ the ;phya1~~~' lllUd ,tl.\:6 : .P~ltfr pf the sc400J ()il;tildr,04; they have com.piled long and glpomy, repp~ 'j.l,orit-the <i9:p,qiti9ns of tll,eir health ,; . and theri; :ii;t the ~ords _ of the_ S~f1\:p;
:i(in'es, ~hejhave"g"one.1on ~heir W?,y rejoi~mg .. Medical ~D,SJ?,~ption is "otva;y ,£t:tie value, Si:;,~ess it is, followed _11p ,GY: me~c~l t~ea~n1ep~ -. )1 js, -.i~1 p~~!e v;alufl to info~ a 11;1~m.ber (?.f unfortun~ sch?ol~~y~_tll~:t ~h~:y ,JP'9 ~\lt J~llllg fFO~ ajnll1I.Lber o(SEl~})US ttnd iµiforfiupate ailn:wnts, .a:nd}b.e;r:i. t_?- t~
'cno steps whatever. to provide. tha.t thoy, are ~ll]:ed. QfJHt)lf. ll'.~~~-s.,.-_,~ -· be successful, -medieal inspection must be followed by medical treatme11t. .'Ye p.avo,. therefore, 1}11!,dA arrangements jn six. districts, as. all E}xp~r,imental
·-pieasure, :wb0r~by W:e9-ic!ll inspQctio_njs folkw~d up by. we.<Uc~l tr~t:w,~~t: _ tOne c,~ tli~se"<liRtriets is that of ~~abpnr whlch occU:pie:l;~µ~ ~tt~nttqn::oH~
_f,0UJ:1cil to ·~ ¥1,rge. oxte:nt yesterday, and: I am g#l,d to add tha.t J3 u.r :SJijt~:tn -j~f medicel lllspection and treatment is P.orhaps rmp~ding-:t>~tter in the.Sljfll;\•
. ,·pu, than in otl)erdistricts. -Let us come nearer home. _.-Sinda is JllOS"G ~or.Wt - ,, ~ately placed in this matter in that it has · the assistance of tbe MUJli~ip~
·- Committee and __ of_ Major Webb, the Health _ Officer. ll]y~ry · WY ,and-gi:;l 'm. the Simla schools undergoes medical inspection, ·-and if p:~i,sary tAA-t -~pec~~<:>n is followed up l>y medical treatment. If any :member Qf this C~mp· -cil would care to see the Simla system of medical -ins:pe,ctign _ in, t1ctj~Ji.
· my friend the member for Simla and myself will be very happy to take him · round the schools during the tune· ,Jf medical inspection. J(any member -,ti_nds it difficult tc reach the schools, we have an excellent :fih;n showing 1:11,e : ~ystem. - If I dt. show tbe film, I trust that my honourable frien_!l; the merriMf ·.for Simla, will not consider it undesirable or inadvisable propag!l,nda.: ~ · he isof that opinion, then I offer him here and now a solemn worclof_warnin,g · .-that the next film which will be put on the - screen will - depict tl!e_ !~~ · ~lections in Simla, and, in particular, a life~lik~ port!ait _of th~ succe~sful ,candidate. - · · - · · ''
RESOLUTION BE INTRODUCTION OF COMPULSORY PHYSICAL 1053 - ; ·r - . ·- TBAININ<1 ·. nr:. SOHOOLB- AN:t>. ~OLLEGEB.
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.i't>'N.JAB_ LEGISLATIVE O UNOiL •.
-
- .~~- . '.rhen with- reg~d · to medical :,ms£eotfo~: Sir, George Ana.er.son -iiii ..
_ pointed out_ that this necessary part of physioaLeduoation has .. bean follow,;_ ed with scant success a.ndit is IlOW being introduced-in six districts. I should like this l}ystem to be extended .to all the districts in th~. province at once ..
I . ,
. SCHOOLS .AND OOLLEGES. ·.,,,-._,,.
~within the ·soope of the ordinary vernacular teacher.-~ _-The 'improvement'. of - the physiial training of those who. will be the vernacular teaoliers of the future is therefore of.vital importance. With this obj~t in view, Mr. Hogg hasjust completed an eight monfhs intensive course in physical trainitig at the Oen·
_ tral · Ti~g College, which- was attended by-soµie 20 teachers who alr~~dy · Possess ., a.nglo-veruaoular teaching certificates, some oHhem being graduates : 9f the- University; - I regret that members of this C6u_noil were unable'. to accept. jn"\Titations to - -witness this course,' biit invitations -will . be repeated again next year and I hope that a large number:.of ,members will be able to visit the come. · The int<:intion is that all verriaeula.rteachars under training
-in all normalschr ola shaU:comprilsorily una(3rgo'a Jouise·of.physical trairung 'tlllder the control of those young men,who.hav:0--just completed Mr. Hogg's course and should t'herfllore be thoroughly competent to, supervise ._that
_fqnµ of,-_training. Jitm afraid, Sir, that I have occupied much of th~ ~time- of this CouJ16il,-flutLwould assure-my honourable friend that we ap preciate v~ry much)he 'Valuable support which he has given µ_.<J by moving this .resolution, Finally/I can assure him that we. shall do all.that we can -to develop this movement which we have as much at heart as he has himself.:
.. Sartia,:UjjalSiQgh (Sikh, Urba~): Sir,Tfiiny:realise with much approo1. atiQp the work iihat has been done by .the -education :depa.rtmenfwith regard to this aspect of. (3duca,ijon ... Wha.t -I meant by. proposing this resolution wa~
· that with all the work that is being dona by she department, the pro_bl~m, is still serious and very seriously faiiiug us. Compulsion no doubtie ,provided in the schools by providing about- ~O .Or 80 minutes in drill, but .what is. th1:> position of the-drill_:i:past~r there: ·. He is an illiterate man- andwith prae tioally po physical education._· About the drill master, Mr. Hogg himself has _put it in words-which I should like to read : ""'."'"" .
.. Somehow or ~th.er, the promoters of physica.l education have allowed the grea.~ · - _ teach:ingpetsoiialofthisdepartinerittolook, upon those who are engaged l.n
· - physical ed,ucation as being of an inferior type with little or n(? mental capacity --for teaohing, with the result .. that the physroal_:traini.iig staff pf-the department
become more or less members of the lowest subordinate staff. Take the aver· age drill . ~ter. in our . schools, today .. · What do we_ :fuid ? A man with
.Iittle or Ji<i voice in the. affairs of the .school with . practically. no control over the children · who are· placed under his charge ; • with no contaoj; what;..
.. ever nf a._fyiendly relationship with the other teachers of the school, - but. em. - . _ ployed, fn a hundred and one r.!ifferent ways py those who are immediately
· -superior to. him and more of'.,.,n than not as. a chaprasi for the headmastet . . employed in any other kind-of work - but . that · of physical training. The
· result has been that physlcal training as 'such isnot enjoyed and aslong a.a .' - the drill period 1s filled in, then, why worry abou~ it,", -. _ . _ _
Jfurthar on. he saJ'.'s :2..,. . - · - - · . ' ,i Ifllelsure that you will agree with' me tliat this is ,'a; dangeroue aitifo.de of mind foi
. · - the staff ofa great educational department." :' - - . . ;--: J •
i warit that .the drill masters having equal st~tus ~with0the -~ther teachertl ' - . should be provided ·in schools and thus we should_-have .good" training and good physical education -and the ·4ri11 ma1!tera: should :a.lso be more in touch with the students. · - -· - -- - ,.. - ·. · . .:.
·lQ5&- BESOLU'l'ION BE OOMPVLSO!tY PHYSIOA.L_ 'rBAINING ~N
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COU!NOIL. I
[22ND JUL !
I I
~~!l0Ltl'"18lf 'BE : OOlll~'ULSOBY P:UYBIO~L TRAINING IN SCHOOLS 105~ AND COLLEGES.
:()f:,. ~t ,r~pa.,re~ -:~- · ~~f/'Bobem~s = whieh ~ be_ oonsiderej }Il)lu.e jo~!,0 • f11~ ~~u:ldi~a~::11~:,~ot!yit_i!~ pro~e~~.,._ na.tl.ll'a.Vy .th~o" c~~li.1dti!~b~~, li~~ta.s :.~~ ~hat-we ou.gllt :tt! b9,~foµig ~t}ih~ s<1h!)_gl Q_!ld -m ~-- t:\)a ear _ er· _ s~ages.; :~e .;are- riow..jnst,.a.~ the· stage -when the best efforts a.re ~ing::put · torth ·and. we :aia aiso-at,-the stage/wben~soheriias· arit definitely .urider.ooits'ida:raiiion. -We :liava:not. really any- materiaJ "for any ooii:unittee;:for the. kind . of : oomtjiittee ~whioh.· tlie" lionOllrable. memhet has contemplated which. could "be ·u:satally ,}e~Eler~ fo.i- -tfui. purpose of having any definite . and carefully cu.f;'o'u,i; ~scheme.: : I \vojtld therefore- ask", in view .of the real effort; the ·g0nuine-e~6tt athat -is-being made by the education deparlmeiit on the one side arid byJl:ie ;pniversity o~)he "other, iiot; irier~ly wild ·effort but a really organised e:ffor.t. :Jt1~t ;~I:? honourable member would_ be satisfie,d -with this and ,riqt-pr~ss ·;t.h~ .eesolunon .. for the formation of the: kina -0tcdmmitfoe-which "he~b.a.s .;suggested-in 'the resolution. ·- : - ,_:=-- ---- :hrdar ;pjjal-Siqh.: Lbeg leave,to- wit}ldraw the~res0lution. - ---~,-
__-_".Phetesolu.t1oi:twa~ bv Ieavewithdrawn; - -,.;...,,-- - -~ ' ', - ' ' - ... . ; . '\ - ---· ·: __ :~'-
RESOLUTION ,e -REVISION OF P.AY -OF,-l:J-LERfOAt· efa1uF. lala0Bo'dh Raj' [West Punjab Towns' (Nori~Muhammadan) , Ur~anJ:
!Sir,_I beg to move- · · _ · · · . . . ''This C01.mcil recommends tp the Governor ~Coimcii~haft a: committee be a:epointed
J to:enquirll'.ifito'bhe qU:l!stion of"revision:of~'J)!l,y-and 0lll!)lum,e_nts_,(>f su~b-·~~ -0£ th-e·clerioal s'ta.ff in the various departments- of the provincial- Go~ent,DB
· . :are.:drawirig R~ 100 .or les11 per mo~~n;" -, .... -. . ". __ -_ __ · _ ... ~ _:-_:: ~sir,,my .. o.tzjeot:in:nioving th-isrresolutiorids~simplytto·.remove tb'e hard
:lot, of:·the1po'or, olerki;vin the varicus dep:aftmentsiof Government who ·ar·~ iii -the lower l'a.nks'anci. in this res om tionfI __ have- simply · requested · the · Govern& ,in1Council :to appoint a committee :to-go into ·the .qnestion. As ,tJre ~estion .involves the· financial aspect;. jt. : has been , considered necessary <that tl:iis .Oouncil.should _give itsvsrdiot on this point; Aiter·tbe Council :hascgiv~n its··verdict,.the committee may go into the details itnd ,•determine ·.whetberit·is necessary to improvethe.Iot oflthe::poor clerks or .nct.: The .,griavances of:tbese poor clerks have from time to time appeared-in the.pt.~s ·.cand· only in -yesterday's Tribune, I: ~-find an article under the: nom,de :plu.me ",Distress " where some of the grievano'es of:the , poor clerks· am ·,yentilated. -Irdo.not .know how far these grievances have been en.gaging -the attention · of · the Government. · It is a: well -known fact •·that the .standard of living in these days has gone very high 'and the prices . J?f foodstuffs have all risen abnormally. A clerk - having a r£amily of : four
-or.five children and. drawing, a salary of.Bs . .-40 · or Rs. 50 cannot . m:ake iboth, ends meet. He cannot support his nhildren on such ,a -small ·salary, '.-atill less can he give them any education.oriookafter tht,iir health. -UJhe hard Jot , of these . po9r clerks can, better be · imagined than~ described. Jn some . families there - are _ certain genius and: high intellects. who· cannot he ,liseful to their 1 country .or to their,·coromunity be-cause. of 'th,(faciliti:es net-having. been provided · to , them; :i¥on -oan imagine - how ,difficult ,it :,is
,..for a.1low.paid,clerk to-send.his son·.iO'.~'oo,µ~ge; ,after,be ·ha.s paissed::the '¥a,trioo.1.a.tion .examination, .and to ~Iiortl·= itha 1:co-Ilege _ espenses.: The!» 1-aculties .are mot ··~llo'Wed;iiio •fleve}op like the Jleautiful dowers Which :ate - .
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:P't)'NJAB LEGISLATI
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" This- Council recommends=to the Governor in Council that a committee : btJ appointed to enquire into the _question of revislon of pay and emoluments of such members of the clerical staff in the various departments. of -the provincial Government a.s_ a.re <hawing Rs. 100 or less per month." -
The question is that that tesohition be adopted. _ Mr. M. A. . Ghani (nominated, non-officiaJ) : Sil", I ·beg to whole-·
heartedly support the resolution. Every student ofeconomics knows t~~t.;; the value of the rupee o-f1914js less than four annas to-day .. I do not agr~ with the honourable mover of the r~olution that the salaries.ot t])e clerks ough] to be raised bnt I want the Government to give them .thesame sala:ry as they were !1.rnwing in 1914 but give them the same value of the rupee ·&3
- - Jetters and circula,rs on _thEl subject and has h0E3n taking other steps to remove
<this evil. . In August 1921,. the King's Qom.mittee was appointed to go into :·this question and enquire into &11d suggest remedies for this evil. One of the: ;chief ca.uses of corruption, according to the opinion of the Committee, wa.s=. - tliat the clerical staff in the lower rank is not handsomely paid.: There ~ no doubt that in the year 1921 substantia.l increments were given to the members of the establishment in the various departments of Govern.. ment, but the increments or the revision that was made at the time bas- n.Qt been considered. sufficient enough so as to remove the evil which- the Committee aimed at removing .. The evil exists up till. this momens., There may be other causes or there may be other circumstances that lead.fo_ corruption, but they are both common . to the members. in the lower ranks as well as to the members in the higher_ tanks .. The• distinguishing (?a use of this corruption between the members of the lower· ranks and the.members oflhe higher ranks is that the members in the lower
--. ranks are not sufficiently paid. __ Although that Committee was of the view -that it was generally believed tha,t corruption existed in the higher ranks, 'Government did not agree.with that view. It may be that there may be here and there instauces_ in the higher ranks ,p,lso _ of corruption, but gene rally corruption prevails.- in _the lower ranks. _ These are the - circum stances and such are the facts and Government should find out means fo. stop this evil in the lower ranks and for thafpurp~se it is necessary that-a .. _Corn.mittee should be appointed to enquire into this question. ~
. _ The reports of the Jails Committee and .- of the- Police Committee also, _ say· on this point that· the increase in pay of the members of those depart-.
ments may at-iiract a better class of people. .A.s-th'.ese clerks are somtimes . . promoted to the higher ranks and as in the beginning .of their career they have been inthe habit of ,extorting money from those with whom they have. to deal, this_ habit becomes their nature while they_ are in the higher ranks., .The evil habit doesnotleavethem although they are being sufficiently paid. In the interest of the integrity of the public service in general and especially in the lower ranks of the departments, it is necessary that this question, .should be gone into.- - - - . ·- -
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With these few words, Sir,· I commend this resolutionto the members. of this House, and T hope that the .conditioi:r of these poor clerks and tlie - hardlot of these poor people will have the sympathy of each and every O
-member of this House. · Mr. President: The.resolution proposed runs-:-:-
RESOLUTION fu!i RlllVISION OF PAY CLERICAL. STAFJI·. 1059'
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_ . ·MJ-.: E. Maya Das: - Sir, - may I know what ·is meant by ' index . figure '?,, Will the .hQnourable member: please explain ? 1 : • _
-·I. Mr.-_H. _w. ¥~n: twill attejnpt~very brieffy:~~explain the meaning': ancl tb~'.use oUhe_ ,. ~dex figures\- In-thi11icasiij- :t\velve;·11rticle~ are> taken, ; first:. _of .rill :t}ia price of' those- artioies for: 'tJie, pat~icirl:~ :year_ 'Oil ·wmoh: 'the-1
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BUOLU'TIOll RE : BEVISIO:N OP PAY OF OUl:&J;OAL STAFF. l~t. I want to explain to the House what the actual facts are r~a.rdin,.g tbe·pllr: of the clerical. establishment,. faots which the honourable sp1:i~kers a_ppeai:: to be'. i~oralit of. : pi: tlie first' place as . a result: -,Of. th~ 'large: ili~teasa. 'in'.' the cost of Jiving "during the war temporary all9warices - ·were· givexi. to' thf. elerieal establishment · previous to. 1920: Those" temporary - allowances" c~st Government 7-i·Ja]Uis and they represented an increase 'of "2,5;p&f cent~ o~:tbe-pay which the cletkfwere then dt¥wiilg .. In 19~0 t_heincrease in th~ cost. of living showed little, if 'any, abatement. Mr, HaJifa:x:was _place;, on special dutyJot sevi,tal months to examine thoroughly the whola oasfof ·: tl;i~ clerical _·est~bli'lhmf;lnt_. _!:le .did it with :very great care. and. thoroughness'.~ and as a result of his exalilibation and of his _rooomi:nendatfons a· ge:neral' re:vision of pay :was made. In that revision corisideratjo1f was paid firstly to the existing pay bi posts, secondly to the duties whi9h. the. b'Qlde:i; ofth~ . particular post bad to perform and thirdly to the increase that had taken.' place in the general cost' of. living. The result was -thaJ new scales of pay were int!<?9,ll~(:lg, the ultimate, no,t the immediate; -cost .of which fo _ Govern inent was estimated at JSJ .lakhs, that is tosay, 113!, lak~s)n addition _toj;he- 7! .lakhs thatbaa already been given, making· a·total inoteasi{of'21 'lalrn_s. since 1914. ~at increase of 21 lakhs represented a _p~r_cetitag~ inereese" or7J! per '-0ent: since ·1914. <I may.explain that 'tbe'wholi:r'of-thab,increase did not accrue at once. In the fust place a: limit 'of-40 per cent': was' placed:"~ on-.the-'immeaiate·i:nc~ease, :that fs to say; no. parrlioular~in&ividuah;ould have- ati .once more than40 -per cent. of what .he was · then drawing as per- _ : nmnerit~pay plus his temporary allowance.: It therefore followa, and this, I> think-is_.a point 9-fcsomtt importance, that many clerks have not yet obtained, the full benefit of the increase which was given ;_in 1921; ·. Ultimately on the, - a.vi,irage they, will obtain- the benefit of 71 per cent.-,,and es the increments occur they: will- approach the full amount of. the benefit. Illhe benefits that-, . were given in 1921 are still continuing and are accumµlating: Now It will, be·oi,interest to .this H9use-t0Jroow how far that.ultimate .inerease of 71 pe~ cent. compares with the rise in the cost of living. ". It ·has been s.ta.te!l,just-,' nqw.tliat in comparison, W!tJi_ 1914 the value of th~ rupee is folµ' ~nnas~·· The. figures which Ih~y!rgot_suggest that the value ii between ten'and·eieven., ~~ and I_~h~ probably ~b_e 'figure~ on which. my oldou1atio_~ ha~ 'b~an:made~/ ar--e· more - ·reliable-·ina-:n the figures 'to whi<th ,the honourable memberseems to have had~accel{s.: illakiiig the twelve' most common· artici'les. of consumption~:.: the ind,-tt~ ftgure,in 1914 waa H7. • In 1926, the.last year when calculations wc;ire lll&d-e -tAe iild~~:figure was 190, that is-to say, the all-round price of-these.".'· t~ve a.rtiol-es '.had~inorease,d,- between 1914 .and 1926 ·by about 62 per eent.·" In 1921 when 'the revision took place the index :figu-re ~was· 218: ·so -sinee: 1~21 .. there h~.pllen.a .drop from 218 to-190. -If we take. particular-articles, tij0 amount of ~the :OJ!.o:p is .S\ifi .more apparent.,.' Tri 192t·_t,ha ·in'd~:i figiree; for wheat was ,269 ;'last y1iar it was l 88. ..The index ·figure for: rice in 1921 ·· wiis-198; la.st yearit-wasl62·.- Similar-figures for' ghia-re·289 in J921 andl7f; in l921L . , ; < ·- - . . · .
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PUNJAB LEGIBLATI E OQUNCIL,
'been actually a drop in the cost ofliving and not an increase. Now m addi·. 0ti.·on. to.· th. e ord. inary.· . scales of pa.y whioh .. are paid. to differ. ent gra. d.es .o .. f · cler.ks·. -speeial concessions are given m Lahore and Simla where the cost qf living is. abnormally high. In Lahore, a clerk on less than Rs. 95 a inontb/is givel'.1 11 )ooal allowance of Rs. o ; if the pay is less than Rs. 96, he draws Rs; 4 and less than Rs. 97, Rs. 8.and so on ; so that the extra e~ahore and
·'Similarly of Simla is mitigated by local allowances. Ip addition to that, Gov.emment has recently ta.ken up .large. schemes or. construction in order ·to mitigate the hardshipi of high house rents. The -three places in whioh schemesba.ve~o for been.taken up are Lahore, Lyallpur and Sargodha.. Mem- cc bars of this Rouse :will remember that a scheme has bean approved by the .
.,,Council·to. build·quarters for. clerb in Lahore at a ·total cost of 17Jakhs, .oh . .. Jhic!t~ 1 thinl4 7 1a.Jilis were voted by·this House for exp~ditm:e during the .
cuiienf year. Thf) rent that Government will charge .for these qp.arter!! ~ will.be funited to 10 per cent. of the pay of the clerk who occupies the qp.ar- · ~; a.nd that is-almostcertainly a.lower rentalthan.that for. which he would:
···be .. able -to ol>.tain a.ooommtida.tion of. the same quality.· m the. open market.·.·.·· Mr. M .. A .. Ghani r M~y Task the honourable, member two" qu:istfons r
Tlw first question is, 'do <;the High Court clerks get: the famine relief fund ~ wbicb, as. the honourable member has said, is giver: to a.ll the other clerks;'.
't40 other question is, until these quarters sre built by the Government,~= do. the Government give any-rent to these. clerksY . .· .. ,
·.· Mr. H. W .. · Em.e:tson : The first question is, whether the High C~ . clerks get anyfa:rnin.e relief fund ..•. I have already expla.ineq the.t in 1921 all. increase to .the pay was given Which· was a.ctimlly iri excess of the increase ~
· in the cost of living. l do not quite understand, when this is the case, wh~t r~so1_:t ther.e~ ~· to giving a. ia:mme relief allowance •... The increase in the
-.cost of living ia already more than covered. The second question is whether. pending the construction of these buildings, any special .relief fa given. The answer- to that is in the negative. . Beyond the Lahore allowance, which
· is given partly to cover the extni-.cost due to high rentals.; no .special ;.ent allowance is given. ·The honourable mover of this resolution _I.Uld certam::. of.his supporters advanced ·as one reason for giving.a. further increase lll pa.y · the fact that the . stand.a.rd of living has risen and that Gov&lUllent ought ·
,to:allow for. the.met tha.l the eJerk has to educate his ,on or sons up to the.~ Matriculation. standard or even beyond, .. Now, Ithink; Government. and all of.us fully sympathise with the difficulties of fathers who have to sdueste
, their sons:a.nd I persona.lly sympathise very strongly with them_ beoause I have threeson;s to educate.- (Avoice:·You a.re not a ofork.) J3uticannot .
· seehow,if Government"were to accept the obligation to educate up toa eer- - , Wn standard, the sons of those persons"\Vho were fortunate 011-0ugh to secure
.Government posts, it could refuse to accept a similar obligation for-all . other heads of families. · I cannot see 'any logieal basis for distinction between '
· Gov.ernment olerka snd others. Again ·several speakers seemed to suggest - that the increase. that has been given in the pay of the clerica.Lestablishment was something very much le~ than was given to the superior .llE}rvices. . well, .
· my own: recolle<ftfon if! that in comparison,·firstly, with the _ofncers of Gov~ · · ernment{)n "posta:, .. saybeiiwe0I1Rs.lOO .to 800,:the clerical. establiBhment Wa$ .. given much more generous increases. Similarly, ta.hsildars, naili-ta.hsil-
. dars, and other members of the provincia.Lservices got .far less .generous
REl?OLUTION RE REVISION OF PAY OF OLERIOAL STAFF, 106tt
PUNJAB-'LEGISLATIV ' coirNCIJ,. '
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to impress on the members of .the House that . thereAs -no .'1fuc'ea'Sfty \for the~reppoinfo:neht·ot1shch a ~otforlittee ·as '·ufstlggested 'ifr't'h~'resohi 'tfoi:t. Towird:s tlfo· end ofhis:·speeell"he :has ··statitl !thifif'.t-he Go\tiinment ·
· 'etiµeed·es .1ihe'pt>in~:-arid appoints-a ·conu:mt-tee-fo'(tlfe·intet~~ts. of tbe'·bler:i~ttl. :iitfoiff ~drawing;a s'aftiry 'tif · less thllll Rs. -too, ifh~n the other •merlil:lets 6f 'the.
•clmcliFstaff~tiwffig-;·a salary of ~6re tha!n '1:is. •-1:t® will0o~ 'coming ·' ii5r#iird'1vitn:imi.e-;·'satne'ief!U\lSt. . Nb 'one can i&rif'that-i11Jie•ha'.ses'of ;t%:t 'two ""n{)' 11ot•siijndioiilih~ ~fu~fooilitlg -. 1:t. is o.w.y a~~Oll)ri:utt-e~; istteh'a)M;liti,11\ilig· ,{,g~'iten'iwtp$'t~oiutidn,:ttiat oouHl1d~errllirllwliethl:lr tb~'ettctlmsiittrioofof
1llli1:is1{drfi~g·less•t!Jiii.ii-~s.'1'-00 justify ,£ihjr:'l6'.rther0'iiie'teii'se 'br~riot :m . .-\b8)r'9fuoluinehts~· :~~, bt1ier 'people:will·''be·i!btidHg .. 'ftfrwlird .;~fh ·'mtiiifar'grieveitiiJes. ;j's·'no'lti'gili:ti&rit"fui: denyirig;tl:le; app:o1rltme:iit ':Or)l&>m·
'.1imt'tae~·stfg~e~teddnG1t1ia·1iesijlfftilin: . . . . . . . , : In the:'.~g.-of :lilil-11p~h. the honourable member'.t~d:us-t.hat ihe
general increase in the payof the various departments; ~as sanctioned in i\l:fo'y"ehr :1.-921. itj~y1be that -hertaiirirlereaise was·ifil6\Vetl/buftlie ques ;'{fefn isiwJwther.Piirlh~tpr~eht-··eiioniwitarices,'th'3re~is':a.riyiiieee!isity:hfiltp.
·-cpBmting,~a, oomtriittelr thal'. \vofrlli .: con'sider' ~lie-'-gri~v~nees' of l 'Uioiie =""eiei'ks · '1Vh()l:ie, .~ ~re. ce""ered .• byitbeuresoHition. '1 trhe.-increaires' ·tliiit· were "' givb'n· ;ifdlhe1n :UH:921' wijre:oil the basis 'Of the sa:lary'thht · they. --w~re )lraw'il!ig _;at. '1thltili'fu'e1tmd't'.he_ltftti3stit1n_:\v-betlieliuitb!e'r· rHcrimses"t,anlffe-givgn, :~istoli13 · 'determmed' 16nfy:1hy a:'eotl:tmittee. 1:tinay · :he'!tlitit··tlfe, ·saUiryi'tbey,\v'ere. ··diriwing-~t tlie7t:i1riie wa;s'not'ilufil:ci~Ht W'forin'1t1fo1hiisis . .i!1{thia'ttisoluti8n,
.· i'f1the· _niei:nbertr<ol- _:the H6use shdhlitsup'port it,' th'i'<fov~r'ilirient:'iu'e".tiot' ,;'ooirifuifted "'1io:anytbing. !The· ottly·'thing 'i·hat 1s ··reqriii'ed ;a:t "]iresili1t
is . that a committee should : b'e . ·appoi:b.tlld 'iio go . 'mt-o '"t'he .. qiiestiibn. ,If; a,ftEll' .~s~ey ofshe circumstances and af~er -hel!,ring thttfepl"ElSenta tions {of the ol:f}tk_s,:. the committee should; be,:-0f 't-he;opin.ion:thei~thei:eJi,
.. np neoessit:y of -alloWring , such ..• inereases, · the . :~nunittee ·· OIIJ1'.l. • .-vw:y : well >t~port to the. Govermnent that there: is -,no . such ,ri.eces.sity. :,li: .. ·fa,cta;.~e ,,-placed before the I comµuttee that -lead- its ,mem~.ers .. to '3/f:J»}fti91il~~
·,riew; Goye:rnment _sh!tfl be: 'in .. a::position- to.eonsider: t-he_ :ques~ion ~~cQJ(:i~ ,dn.,-gly. The honourable member gave;us"~~ figures -and- he. stated
tija,t ab~t {8! lakhs were. allowed on acco,llnt off he inerea~e. Jtyou ju~t , .go .O;!Elf the, figures ·of. income and, e~pelldJituref of tµe;.-pt(!f-ince, before th.e. .: · year 1920. ~nd· th~ fi8P,tes that now, $ta.rid,;y9u, will-find that the figµres wbj.~p · 1·a,nged between 5 and 6 ~rores hef()ie 192l now stand :t>etweel! 11 and 12
. . "Ol'Or~s. ; Iff the e:Xj,fortstis06f:•the j)ro\"Wfc"e's h1w'etchffi=t~ .. 1o1a fu1oi;he1(t'eipectlf, .:'· th'er~fs flo t~a.sifrFwliy the cl~k11·1iliot11'il Jahl<f~t'gel ~'ent,·p~c'~nt-I iriereitse
. ·-:ir{theitpity:~ ... Ha:haststatieittliit'tl-h:i.ir:~1€iiii~f61n~easeijp. pay.:W'onJ.&:oif-71 :ip$-l' efeiit ,tj,iid the cenditiiOJ.l!! • that • pie-viiiled · 1n 49'2l '$'trll · iohltinue- .. ~ Tffo .. ·<eommittee .".-Olm 'vety. \\f~Il. ·-titk'e mth 'considei-aiiioir 01tn t'lies~'qtiestio'nij
· ''ahd lJren)de'cide wh~t>h'er ther'e . ·are~any hiasPJis .1 to. gi'vethe ~dYant'ages ·61 , · Sn:erease-~9.'netlon'ed' m.·,f92l ·aJFi1t '<>n~ · or · '\vh'eth~r' 'tJi'eyc:,sha'liditiek- ifo' the
::f>:revions itfeuisioiis 'of Geverllfuent. '·· . . . -'~ ;The h~nourabl~ ·Iml~ber S!!,id t,hat;lie~a~\ey.ei,-:.sy~pathy .witb•thes~
• , eler~s ,aM recently the Go:vermne~t -.had :~ecilled . to ·erect . -cert~in '. r,mdentiaJ ·quarters f9r tfrelll jt Jbahore,: sp;~~at ~ tii,e:r: .. 00,11:heiet onft O
. th:eseolei:ks. on. rents lower t~ani tho~,l}~eY,ailnlg.-,i:n .,t~~: opl:ln:,m!l.t~~t. JI .
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Ms p~JAB L£GISLAT ' ooi:rNCI'L, i ;
{ -. Bodh Raj.] . , ! . ! · ! Th • quite true. From this reas ingl of his I ~re~u e t ~d ta..nd .. the ?e. cessity ~h.at_su·c·h cle ks. d .. o. d. ~serve th~_90Jce.s.si 1s e v red .by this resolution. 1 say t. hat] · this conce*1qn .. s no T.h t s my contention. This questio is to be gone in o la d.I furt - concessions. be given to these ler~s. My hon uta;e f . s ·.· hised with the, poor lot of the c · rks i and said th~t th ,y ha. eno g: .to educate their sons. At the s_a e time he says that f th me t oneedes this obligation, he is· fraid that others ~lll om ela o · g for the same concessions. s I ! already subriritt , th tb. e awing less than Rs. 100 and of thos~ drawing mqr~ t an R not t nd on the same footing. The on can afford the expe ses tion o his sons while the other cannot. A man drawing ;Rs. ,000 well ord to spend enough money n the education! ~fahis ma awing Rs. 50 or Rs. 60 cannot fforid such expendit e.
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my first speech I made a_ refe enoe1 to the repo~t p~ ¥1'· . .. , ee, but I 1:111~ffrstand. that that report is not. avail.a pl I° If
&J\l.Y e o~ton the.subJect, I woiilil not be lwrong in sayfo~ th tho· g t ·desirable at 'the time that. om~thing shoal~ : b do me b rs .· of . the . clerical sta~.. If t at. ~epo_rt is available and
endations are taken into c ideration by the Go ern nt a d giv>e, ffect to, a section of the clerical staff will feel a eig~ o rel a . ut we e e told in the last session that t at r~port was niissi g a .the it had b en·· lost in the office.. That is stil . greater re4s1n wh! n<>t er_
tee should be appointed so tha thf,ly may record: C rtai efi te . for the consideration of the Go ernment. I !
other argument that was a anced was thu.t, th.·· pe le r &ft vemment service more than· th y do after private ~e ice. In t e b ·· g.l had stated: that it is on ace unt iof unemployµi~n , w h q-c: II• tion is before the Gov:ernment and is !1gaging its attentio • . e v st
f 'men who have not got any ob !would natwfalJy tak to a y se c that is available and on any p y that is offered lld t em. On prin i le of supply and demand you ma get !a large number ! of_ cler that is no reason why those who have ot ~nto Govermde:tit. ervi not . e paid sufficiently. I 'will appea to ithe members ~f he CO .. • ~ .. the question OD its own merits and ~up. port the rrst l,tion.
: . · _. B. W. Emetson: Sir, I wo d j1st, like to r~mpv~ oil mis _ 9, c~p~ions whic~ may arise from th rei:q.ar ks of t_he hQnoUJtable thf,l · es Iution, He cited the argument f mine that 1£ Go-trermlnent t,J#s re olution in regard to clerks dra · g Iess than Rs. !100 ~nd the···_c·aun.· ·. for incre.ase of pay because hey'had to educ811te .. · .• tt· .eirs it "w __ d be necessary to accept the sa e principle for Go~et · nt drat · 'bigher salaries than Rs. JOO. · thi:p.k he must have isu
. ha. . said, What I. actually said J!;S'. )hat if Go~ern!ent . this r o~ution ~? £°'.1':~s Government a rva~t~ who were !.~~a . ing - a. 1 0 are · conQe,ned there was n . reason whatso~yer by · o! .c apt the sa_inf p!)ttCiJ.>le for those perio .. ns who are_tjo~ ii Go · emp o but who were.ma.wing less than Rs. !lO.O, that is: t!) ay, t wo
:v t accept almost an lriilimitea liab ·ty. i : · I : 1
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·I ··i
r.. 1 1--\ . I
I i
·•
·. !
.. -,,
The Honourable ~· } Man.ohar : . Lal.,_ .. The Honoritable.~-.S~dar·:jogen: .
dra Singh, , . ·· · - · .·· .. The Honourable Sir Geoffrey
deMoDtmorency. · Mr. J. ·G. Beazley. Mr •. H. •W .·'.Emerson.
~Mr. B. H.- Dobson. , . Mr. E D .. Cra,ik. . ..
Mr; F. Keays Byrne • ..'.
.,. ·-
NOES 88.
Lt.-Col. W. H. 0; -Forste~ · Mr>o~ :A. Batton. .· - - _
- - -~. ~_Mr-.·C .. -A .. '.H-; Towiisend. · The Honourable - Malik Firoz
Khan, Noon.- _ Khan Bahadur Nawab Muzaffar Khan. - ', . - .. Mr. C. F. Strickland. Su: Geo:rge Anderson. -
, Mt. w. S. Dorman.-· Mr.J. B! G. Smith.
Mr. M. A. Ghani, · <fliaudhri · Ba1de'O- Singh.
r -Dr. Gopi Chand -Bhargave, - Lala. Gopal Das. .
·. L_alii, Joti'Parebad, . .. Lala Kesho Ram Sekhri. Satdar Narain Singh.
-'·.:;-(At this stago Lala.Bodh Raj raised a point oforder,sayingthat amembee ' · -entered the Chamber.atter the.division bell had ceased ringing and .. the Honourable President accordingly decided that the vote of that · member
--(~ya1 _Mubara~ Ali~ Sha~) was invalid • .. .. ~, ·Ayes 18, NOes-88.
AYES 18. ~ --
ltaiz!J,da Hans Raj. Lala Bodh Raj. Sardar .Hati. Singh. Sardar '.Partap Singh. Sardar Harbakhsb Singh. Sarda.r Buta . Singh,
ldo not think it is possible to separate the question or the Government clerks from the question of private clerks and 'clerks engaged by Iocal bodies. Government mu_st pay some regard to the market rates and if it disregards those rates, it does disservice to local bodies and to private firms. · , Again the honourable mover has asked that if a committee is appointed and if it finds that there are no reasons .for increase, what harm bas been done. The harm that has been done isthat, the hopes of the clerical estitblishment have been raised, that sofar as Goyeinmerit can see at present ,there is no reason to suppose th?,t 'those hopes_ '!ill_ be satisfied- and it introduces an element of dlsturbance, uncertainty arid dissatisfaction amongst the body- of. Govern ;ment,servarits whose claims '\Vere definitely-and for-the tinie beingi:at rany tat&,' fuially settled by Governnient only a few_years ago. The -Committee CaJLdO no good and it_ m.ay do harm by disturbing-a body of', 'Govenmient
·servants who aredoing good worknow and whose hopes will be raised without anyhope of their being_ ~~tisfied. _ - . : · · · · - , .- . ~
Mr. ·President: The resolution proposedrunsr " This Council recommends to the Governor in Council that a, committ,ee be a.ppointed
to enquire into the question-of-revision of pa,y and emoluments of such members' . of the olerie&l. staff in the va.rio~ _departments of the provincial Government
. · e,s are dmwine; Rs; 100 or less per month. .. · , . _
The question is th~t that resolution-be adopted. The House then divided :
. E $WbRD FROM i'l'IJE OPE · I •_. I '
. OF TR-E I IAN! ARM~ AoT. I j • Sbauh Muh~ad Al : The Council ~e~<>~e s:t-0 His::
E · ~ney>the Gov-bt'nor~n1Jou1Dcil exempt the a.word/ t,1 oin th·· p'er tion of t e Indian ArmsrA:ct. J -.
• I ! ~ . · I . J.
·RE.SOLU'.fiON r_e: -o. P!B __ NJN'G 01''' M. Ei?IOAL sonootl Fb. .: _ . F~MALE ·S~JlhASSIS ANT i SURGEONS, ! j _· .
Mo~ ,fi.81 : This ~o? cil ! recommen~; j,t 1
.t.h -Go. ern· that a medic~l s.ohool for traini g female sub-ass1st1tntl sur e ns the
ab be-np:~d,i.n,the ~rea.:r il1!28. . 1 I j . . . i i I I . i I -
i I I
I
I . i-4iffitJ'.ATB t:ii!o.ts1,;.ltl' E'OOUNCIL, .[~~i,lf
I I ' · :M. V.,Bhide. ·_Ma~vi Sir Ra~m'. ~ •
· a • :Sardar Sika.xidar Hl1iy~t Dr. Sir_Muhrumn~d q~al . , ~an. . . · ·· Khan Bshadur' Na ab · uh
, : , : .ir -Akb!ll' Alj, .. _ . .mad Jamal !Pi:L .. :' · -~en-.Rob_erts, . . _ . Shaikh F-aiz Muh: · . ad-. · cia !~t~!~ ::P~dit .. ~mat .~:;!11~~t~u~~~~1 • .. • .2 ·
;Bahadur -L~ Rattan Cba.udbri U mat H-a. t. • .l\f:a,khdumzada ! Sa acf J1Y..w.111wm·
.;&hadttr )lalik -M-uham· -,mad Raza Shah, Gilani i.A,nrln. Kb&n. Sa;rdar Bahadurl apt.
n,:Swrib ~ Mn®,mmad _- ~ll)gh. __ . I i :: .. if.~~h ~M~ .. . . . . . Sardar . Bahadur 881'? ·
Sahib Cha.udhn dhbotu Ram. . .. -~9X-l:Ly&n ~ih,/ ndhri Zaffrulla.h Khan. ;Mt ~· Maya Drs1
Ei'm.Qtion was fost. i I I ! ·-- e following resolutions standing, th~ names ofth~ Hie
t each resolution were not mov :-: I, j
REsQLUTION re: GRAN'.1-'·IN:Ain To tjENOMINATIOf A~
, .:: ·. __ I Uial· .Siqb : IBhis ,C aneil . recommends! J; · ·, _ _ tbat.t h_._,:fhe:ip_ leas. · ed,t0;app.oint.· , ;-<HJm.· .. nu · .·t_.tee100I1Sll\ .• · i= ... gi:~ -~b er e Minister .for1·Edu:catum, the · eetor,of'·Publfo · · ot-io ele d membersof the Ct,unciLfordr mingrrules and.cb ·_ · · -·1ree~.ti.h : ·ognition of and tbe.;~v.ing. _ of, · _nt1.in-aid to delb i · atio
t ! ! _......,.___ r
EBOLUTION. t'e ::;:REPRE~E~AT:IO OF ¥USLIMB IN :eyJtI fl!ll3
p~ -~~: 11' s Co~il rooomm~tii~'s' to. . that ste~ihe~itnm'edilttelytaken to raise the nu~bei' <if, branolfofJf;ltecipbblit ~iees in his province to,at lea t:,55
total ceJdt~fin ~atli b'.$ooh-~ · i . _ 1- l _ : _
I L_
. j.
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OFFER OF THANKS TO HIS EXCELLENCY SIR MALCOLM . AND LADY HAILEY.
Mr. President : Gentlemen, I am sure all of you wish me to convey ~µr grateful thanks to His Excellency Sir Malcolm and Lady Hailey for allowing us very kindly the use of this hall for holding the monsoon session of the Council, at great inconvenience, no doubt, to themselves. '.flhe · arrangements so graciously made . by them for our comfort and convenience were simply excellent a.nd I am sure have been highly a.ppreqi~t4'd bf all pf 118. .
!J!Jle Oouaoilthen adjourned sine die.
ELECTION OF DlilP.UTY PBESID'ENT.
Mr. President: I have to inform the House that His Excellency ihe Governor has been pleased to approve the election of Sarda.r · Habib Wah as Deputy President of this Council.
ANNOUNCEMENI FROM THE CHAIR.
1069
B
LAHORE RIOTS.
. . ' . •&If. Claaudhri 'AW llacj t Will.. the Honourable : ,the' -Fm~oe . -_ Member be pleased'. to state:- , .:- ' ... - ,, ,
: . . : "'(a) if;i(i~.8 .le.ct: th~~the ()ourt Deputy S~perintendeilt' of Lahore, ·• • · ;~-- \·~·:·,- ~ • . -v . , ;:·is _:·a- mud* .f·· ·?. - -':'. · " ~ _ ; : ··: ·. · · · :=. · < : . · ) ·: : _:;:·· ·.-, (1,) if it~a fact that the Court Inspector is a Hiudu; ·
. ' _'.,, ;,: (t) ~ is a. fact that four S~b-Inspectors whQ. a.re now: ~orking_ &lf;i ,,-·--t,~-~-tr:as:nr~::0.-::!u~::~~J:::·~b,o. Prosecutor~-- .. .>: -,_"ifoondueting th~ LahoreriQt-CfMles; · : -- · - ,> .: (e) if it ii'a:tactt~t Lala ru.umt'Rrun and :(i~ ,Rajkishetuire Sp;ially
t; 1'):.;_ ,engage,d for;cond~~ Aie t-ioi-C!¥)e_s ;t.9_:heJp-J.>.anAlt:Jawala. r: .: . , e -·::,:. ~3 r.:JFars.had~;J~:-r -(~f ·;· JU;;-, ,-:;(:.~}--:: _-:~?~---'.~:_:-::?·_:::,;~ - -_-·_- ·, - i;.-:,. . : ·: .. ~ ~~f ·: :~ :~·~~;_i ·:·.:_::: :·_1_·_,_; -~ ,)- -~
_ ~::a::(Jf if lfis·a .faet:1tlie.t.·th~ &ttQitio11-0f'.t:he Q<>v~e~t·,~ _. a1r~: ' -.". ,mvited_ to the.preponderance otone comm~ty m >®ndtw~J. .'. - _ :· ... ~--- ·: ,·- ·-mg ·the-0a:s-es···~ifr'.~<>1Ui.~'Qlr:-'witlt-:thcr · L'ah'Oi'&-;---"®ron:tlllitt' .
· - ··· riots ; ._:~1_·:.··~·~-·~.}:tl; {'.~>·Z.t~1- ·~:--(S{ ~~" .i::: ~~· ·; · ·· · · ·
\: I .
-- '· +t~:. - OA'.fHOJt OFFICE'. · .. The. following - meIIL6ers - w~re sworn. in :-.- - . _
ABDUL ,QADIJ:t, Sli.urm; Sm (Non~Offi.cial nominataj.} •.. -_JKmG, MR. 0. M: (Official nominated); - · ·. Cow'AN, MB~ H. 1ti. (Official no:tnin~ted). · · '
. OUlUi.IE; '!ibi. M .. M: L. (Official nominated}~ . Wu,$<>N";MR. W ~-' R. (O.(Ji0ial nominated). . / , :
' '·:-·. c • , - • ' • :-'1 ._. . . . • . - -- -~- -- .... ., : '•'. f·~~ .. P»NN'!', }f:a; J.,D~ (Official nominated).-
~. "ou;L, Co~.,:c.·1.·-(0ffi~ial 0nominated):_ . -. .
_ -: ~·.: :~:,~~TP.?tF~~f:~. ;,~( (~~cie.1- h6~~~1i!ed).:,., .-i t,> .• n",·LA:s:tia:'Ol!it•M1t:·H~··•~ (Official nominated)~:::(.,,,,
••>{-----:~~~1 rs~£~ii~t-T~{l~J?Rr:i?~Y~t;~<~te~~-~i1rt~·1\_2·-- - -_ :/_,- ~r,):i!ls+<s¥~~~l~~;'i~~~~*~~}~tf A~S~RS.,:-··,
-; ·\'Monday, the-21st Nov8111ber 1927.· " ·Tb, Oofulriil 1t1et at- the · Council Oham.ber at two - of the-
- '" - elook, Vi; \President ;in the Chair~ · - - · - , • :--: i}--;;/ \~-,:_~'. ~ -.
2lm- SESSIO~ Of THE SBO PUNJAB LEGISLAT~ QOONOIL •.
\ .. 1\ .. : '
ivot. X·A. pa,ge I Vol. lX·B, pages 625·~·
. : I
PUNJAB LEGISLATI OOUNCIL, [21sT ~oVR. 927.
l :;~~!'t\L,. the Governmen has taken to .; Lo grievance ? · I ! t' !) Hon-able Sir Geollrey de oat°rency: i<"I_""·
(c) es. None of these have .been c nducting any prosecu tona ritca.es Ii i :
, · ( . ai Bahadur P2.in,dit Jawale Parsh d, Piiblic Prosecttc>r, con et th pr se utions in 4 of the riot cases, 'vi : ~..:...:.:. · · · 1 1
·- : ~
1) Haveli Ksbuli Mal, I 2) Pipa.l V ehra murder case; . I i 8) Shemnwala Gate, 307, Indian P nal Code case, a.tid ! : I I
4) Anarkali, Section 807; Indian Penal . Code ca.s~. l an Muhammad Nasib is also co ducting prosecutioili.s. risi out of the Lahore riots. . . , \ , l l
{e) L la Anant Ram and Lala. Raj K hen! have been :n$a ed t po re. ily a ublic Prosecutors to conduct sue of ,h~ riot cases ~s:m y be iven to the • : I !
(f) embers of both communities ha e raised the objept~o • (g) vemment does not admit that· herei is any gemJ~~ e.
--· ·: . \:. EMI SI N OF SENTENCES OF MARTIAL LA PR~SONEBS NOW JI~. A
o.· Dr. Gokul Chand, Narang Will the Honour!lht~he M e pleased to e.nswer 1question N • 216·asked by m~ ~ gt
of t e Pnrlje.b Legislative Council h d in i Maroh 1927 p i
e onourable Sir Geoffrey de ontmorency: (i) !T e H her is referred to paragraph 516- , J~il 'Manual. ! i
(b) I 11 (c) es. . . . . i . : I .
. (d) . o period is fixed in the case o . pribriers undergo~ of tra sp rta.tion for life in the .A.ndam Islands, but ri<,Q end fo the re ease of a prisoner are made by e Cµief Commissioner An
Ni o ar Islands at.his discretion in ac ordanoe with the ~rb da a. and Nicobar-Manual after a p ·son~r has eompl · ·
20 or 5 ears, including ranissions aec r.ding to the nature !o i t by .~he priso~el'. 1 II
1:
.
(e) oes not arise, 1 1 , . ·
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: ! i r~ CoMPENBATJON TO Tl!E gadi OF TH~ D.AMTAL TE~P:G,E;
. : . I I • ,Cbaudhri Ram Singh : W: th reference to the ; er 'ven
on No. 8478 on 21st October 1926 will the Honourable t e R enue e' pleased to ata.te the an:,.onnt co~pensa.tion a'Y~d, : by hem i of the DamW temple?· i , l ; ·. ·
1 Vol X-A~ page 237.·
J,,OJ,5 ~M I.016 . 274 ............. 1 .... 2_\e_ .. _ _,,, ... ·~~-
. ; : '_., ..
- ~: "~ ,8.1' ~-
"46·. 107 28
Acres. Aoi:es. ··.Act~.
. :Beli , . lW •• •' .. 133 9-
'.~li,:ur. . ~, .: 210 . fl ~37··
..liki»gl(l; .. : !S'11· --·· .. tto· ~· "'Tslwa.ra Ja.tta.n ·- ·-IW,: ·-·· 98 62 '!l'alwara Gujra.n 114 2;3 89 I
J..~ .- . :~~ - , Al'zell •.
U· ~3 iG ,•22 \'.230: 89
... 1
Ill 1890.
Area a.va.ila.ble for culti
vation.
-:..~.!.•?,~ ,., ,~,.· ~.-· .:·_-; .),4-. " '. '-~ ··=-;,:.-, -. '-• s ...• & -
Th~ . Honoura,le: Mi.an Sir·· · F ul·i·Husain : · ' It· is 'regretted that •the records available do n:.)t show the 1$mouil.t of _eon;.pena~tioi;t · wl:tiop has .been awarded to the gadi of the Damtal temple. - It :ma..y_~·,_~f;UII!ed- th~t
.adeqm\te compense.tion h?-1 .been p~i¢; forther, ste;ps.~r.e .peiJlg. t~~en to ;:fimi,Uy settle-the questi()fy o(the q.11,~i; .. ge d()ne ap.d wp.ich ~y'~-dona by the .tli;:gersio.a·-of the Obakki- torr~~ and t9 e~oot AA ~q~bie s.e~~lement with rthe sufferers. · · · ··
.:·;"!_ • -- .::- .. :.''";\,.:.·.·
': _ . _:,: _ . . ~~JPN oi :m c~~:iµ. _: -'. :. :; · -· - · . *522~ C1-audhri Ram·Sin,hr With ~eference tiUriua~ -~uestion No.
"198 (~4}1 put by me on 9th March 1927, will the lloliotµ"able the -~~Y~rt~~ Mam~ be plea,,se<} tg_·s$atr wbetper ip if~·fact t~~t_o~~ t9 th!.
-~vei;,~o.q. of th~ course of t1;le: Chh~ki, l~Jl4S J>ef~~ to}he villages of J3eli~ Bp:w:, 1~h:iu.:-,Jiangs,J. .etc., have .h~n ~wept away'> · _ · · ···· · · · · · · ·
. The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl:i-Husain : . The oulti'v~ted ~'. ·~(J_tlie ~~-9~ c:Qlt.Uif,b~e w:a.stt) µi the ~ges m.ent~p:t;ted. at ~a.rio~ pe!iods · iia_,{4Q.9wp:,~ the .~~.e~p.t ,lai4 op tp.e,tl~J?I, whi~li $'ho~ ~t the ~tatcul· ·timt~· ~a paJ,rj~r. ,(;.,.,. U#,cqlpiva.t~d '.area, a.va.rla.~1~ ·for ciiltivatjon) ar~ :in -~~:v;iJwges-~pcern~-v,af.fu.18.®,_i,1~7 -~or~ c~tiva~ed·and'_?,7§ !_ier~o. ,ba~a,and in the latest records l,Ql,1 a.ores ·oµItivated anii'274 act~ ~-i!r~:
; . _ -~· t~ it wjp. ~ ~P ~~t ~rosiqnsp;ice JS'.90 has·b~ ip.oo_nsid~~l,le, -amounting to us acres out of 1,402. · Government is not in'!~· posjtjoll to say tq w:~~ e~e;\t. the diversion of t;he Chhaki stream through the '.:Dangu.: Cut ,.- responsible for this. - - ·· ·
. No compensation has been a.warded, but the villa.g~·are eligible along with other sufferers from erosionoausetLhy the more important rivers fo,
, . .grants of land on peasant grantee terllllt iblJ.J1.f> Nilhij!J.r~ .
1073: STARRED QUESTIONS AN)? ANSWl!IBS.
·---~------
elon · g- · alho ie
to the
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074
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. I . PUNJAB LEGISJ;,AT VE_ COUNCIL, [ 21~T !No
XOESBEB OOKMITTED ·BY PATHA S IN. THE KANGJA DisTBI
• Chaadhri Ram Singh : ill the Honourable !the be pleased to state- . ! :
t.i) if it is a fact that the Path ns employed on thJ r · wa · · Ksngra which is being onstructed in eonnee ion
hydro-electric scheme ha e been guilty of : m the district ; i · ! i .
. . ; ' I
) the action taken by Gover ent !for putting ~ stlto ch • ceases ; if no action has s far ~een taken, ~htj r . so for t e·
"same?· .. : !i. · . , I : .• _ e Honourable Sir Geoffrey d . M'ontmorencyi: ! ( ) It i not a, t h t the Pathans employed on the Ka.ngrli. Valley lb,µ ay. nst e-
ion h ve been guilty of many excesse In the opinion l o th e m st ~m e ent. to.ju.dge th· .. ey. have been, g nera_:.ut.· speakin~, j om. p ta. ti.·v·1y- ell b and. : . i 1
) •·• •
:rt -is'& fact that the employme of Pathan and dttier labo .6n he-, QOilStl'q!ction~-work--a.t first resulted in s me Inerease in c~e. and n-:
e ala.rm a~ong the Kangra folk, to combat whic~ ~ -£ roe . oliee was·enter_tained at Gove enf expense ttj a~s· t th . the pr~e~a~1on of law and der~ ! !
_ • M.A. ~ :-May I ask, S , hdw'many of th~se Pat ted '} -- . . - .. , i • ! ; - . . ·- I . i I· .
e Honourable. Sir Geoffrey d M~ntmoren!!Y ~ l·- -$ba noti e <>f-that question, Sir. '. : I: : _ ..
~fu· fBAN~P61lT -0 .; Pt~~~KOT. j. k - - _ ·; . • 24. iaizada Hans Raj : (1,) W the Honoura.blejttje ev
b er e pleased to stat&- : ·: 1 : • . .. . . : I :
(a) wh.ether iti.·s a fact that fo. the. •.1last few. ye.is :th Oli . port ·company have bee the only lieens h ders-
. transport by motor vehic es of (1) passenge : d · on the Pathankot-Dalho ie Road ; I ! {b} whether at -the time of the ant~g of license ltebcl ~ _
· . and tenns were advertis ; ,;. [. . . I : (c) the yee.t .sinee which. the. C ive ~ncl. Compan;t Ja e be . . in he.
. , . • enjoyment of this .pri vile e. ? i i i : _ . ( ~ Will the Honourable Membe be pleaaed to lay !o~ t e ta e a e py'" '
of · h license granted to Olive and C mp"'ny and of tije !a itio co di-, · tio • if any, for the year 1926. and 19 ? ; . .1 l . , .• • : ' I • T .1;.." -. • • ;~._.~
he Honour•b•e Mi~ Sir Fazl i,-Hµsain: (i) (~; :Y s ... '. 1'.T I . i • I ,.
c ) -;1}9 ; . - ! ; -- ·-· I i C .. ( i) During thJ;)ear 1926-'27, t. en~/three motor] J:e oles·
to h Clive Co., 1held road certificat s v~lid ·for the I!atha ot
-Since the .lst.-of April 1927, ' teen motor vehicle(~ Ion ·_ _, -~ ;_ ; ! '
!
------------------------~-·· ----·- - -- - - ~
POWER TO'. REDUOE MOTOR FARES.. ..
· *625. · Rm:ada Ilana Raj: Will the' Honourable the Revenue Memb·er ~e pleased to state whether · the information . given by the· Heme Secretary =to two members of the Council during the · la.st · Couneil · session that the Deputy Commissioner, Gorda.spur, has power to reduce the-rates· of· motor
'tar.es is correct-?. If so, why ha.s that power not been so .. exeroised .IM' . to :reduee the fares appreciably in spite of repeated representations in the ma.tterf
The H6noutable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husam: The att!;)ntidn bf 'the -:Honourab~e· Memb~ is invited to rule 4 (e)' of the Prinjaq)~fotor Yehicl.es .Plying for Hire Rules. .' The Honourable Member does not state what f'3.r~s i-he refers. to. .· If, however, his reference is to· far.~ on. .the Pathankos-Dal .housie Road, I. would inform him. that these - have been. reduced, a pprooiai bly ..from year to year. In 1928 the maximum rate for a whole car ~etween .Pathankot and Dalhousie was Rs. 78. It is now Rs. 65. During the same period the maximum rate for a seat in a car has been redu~ed:froni Rs. 27
~o'lis~ 19-8-9, ~d for a seat in tdorry from Rs. 22-S.:O·to Rs:1s;12;.t); while :•.. . .. . ~ :·~l ··..... . .. , ., ... (:;
10(>mpany have been granted certificates valid · for the . same road. The.se ,eertifioates were issued in the form prescribed. in i schedule A ofthe Punjab Motor' Vehicles Plying for Hire Bnles, They inolude no eonditio:ris other
. :~ha!) those ptjnt~ in the. form. aforesaid. . .. . ; . . . · - . .
: . : ~da ·Hans Raf(Ur~u) : Will, the _ l!o~our~ble . Member kindly ,state why such license was not.granted to other a.pplioonts ? ·· · :. .•The. HQ .. O\ltable Mian,Sir·.Fazl-i.,Husain-i ,·Tha.t ... I ·a.m not ina ~position to say without. collecting information. . .
Mr. M.A.Ghani; May I a.sk, Sir, whether. a similar license as that ,granted to Clive and CQ. was. granted to a:ftybody in any other pa.rt of the lllaj~l>.?" r-, • '2 ,, · .. ~ >' : "C: : ' ' • , .. ' • . ., - . - • - .. ·· ·,
... The Honouiabie· Mia:n .Sir Fazl.:.i .. Husam·i . Will the Honoqra.b~e J\{El?Jlber make his qqestion more ~telligible ? - : · · '< · '.- • r Mr. M. A~. Gbeni : "r ,want t~ kp,ow. whether a. similar Jicense' to the -one which·. was gran.ted to Olive ~l\Jld' Co; was granted to · anybody in the Punjab in any other 'pa.rt, for ~tance, from Lahore to Amritsar, Lahore ~-Sheikhupum,:&o.? _·,: · · . : -: , . . · ~;~, .. ·The Ho~~~able _Miari Sir -FilZl·i~H11,~in : -:i a.m_ afraid I ca~ot
,say I have grasped the question of the Honourable M:exriber; : 'But from what I have understood, it appears. th~t he asks me to state whether licenses similar to those' grantoo'to Olive and Co. on the - Pathankot;.DalhousieiRoad have ~n· gra.nted · :elsewhere~· · I .do not: know wha.t - sprt, ot _ µc~c~- h~ve been .granted elsewhere and it is impossible for ,me.to igak~s;~{jO~~rison between 4he known. and the unknown, _ _ · · . . _
Raizada Hans. lqj (Urdu) : · Will ·the Honourable Member kindly ;state wheth~r during the last so many yea.rs any other applicant was granted .sneh a license. a.a.has been given to Olive and Co:?
The, Honourable·· Mum Sir-_ .Fazl-i;;,ffusain {Urdu) : I am afraid J>oa.nnot answer this question without going t~ough the_ fil6'!
107.5 ST~BD . QUESTIONS AND ··ANSWJ!IBS.
ne er-
107 · · i>UNJAB LEG1si:.A IVE i6oUNeIL. ][ 21 TN R. 1 27- . - I {Ho ·• ia:Q.Sif Fazlai~Hasam.j · I · i ! · ·
the m ~um - charg~j'. for lug~ge in cesa of the free ind anee ·a~ b 'en red e from Rs. 7-8~0 per maund to s. s.so. ; ! . · o ·
_, . ~ .. ad_~ Hans Raj (U:du) : No . t:h~t the Honop.r~b e M her as. del e ·motor cars, ."111 ~e kind~y ~tat~ if h~ has ever celeula d · d fo d. _ tha t e c<>_st of tumilltg per mile is R . 8 ?t ! [ ·
- - ·e· BC)llomable Miao Sir F i•RtJSain (Urdu] ~ h~d a chance. of dri~g motor lorries. [1 1 ! i
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- - CLIVE TRANSPORT c MPI" ;NY, PATHANftjT. _ -: - • 26._ Raiz11da Hana~Hllj : Will e ononrable- t~e l:te enu
be le (~~\: :::~ate thiB; year the lice 1
~ • for . piJgl ipot~ b.etween. Pathankot and ~QuJue was gtltnte to
:C~mpu~y'; . _ · ·_. i . ! / i · · - (b) whether the Deputy Co · sioher, Gurdas~)ril, t ok
:_. sid~ration that .the price of )motors, mot~r jp s..
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.- .: i~t:ro1 ~ve dropped o · g: to the re1u~ti, : o
- , - · (cT wht: ~ere were any oth appkc:tions for t~e: s e Ii (d) w&th~ the Deputy Com . sioner, Gurd~ur, . :ten ' .: . - his powetlii and reduce th .far~s immediately? - '. .;
_ · , - e Hc,nourable Mian Sir F -i-Husain : (a) luhd r · 1 6 the P 'j~b.Motoi' Veh.icles Piyibg foi· Hir~ Rules, road I ~e ifiea s -is in. t e (liirdaspiii d~ttict. re~a.in in Io ce·ur Jo the ~?t~ o, ~re ' '. ax~. al low , the date of issue. Smee ihe-1 April last; nineteen et l' velii les. -Mil ii ·· g to the C~ve Co. have been an~ed. road certific~t s va · for the Pat a kot-Dalhousie road.> Govern · nt does not knf"Wi o w t : at.e or a es these were granted, but the · formatdon can b~ c.oll cte
( ) The import duty on motor cars and !tyres is unders~oo to re.«!, e !l with effect from April last. . o far as Govern~ent · a
-r~f]; JL~ :w,s_ n<>t taken into .?onsi~e tio~ by t~e _Deputy Com · Jl. __ pm.:,_11-1 fiXJD.gJhe maxun~ r tes ~o be charge~ fy the· :.4. _ .1921~2.s. , .' . I ,
( - It is understand that various . wndrs lof motor vehi es b 1des tlie-· ·.un a · o. ha~e for long been desirous O ply~ motor ve~icles for . ' 0 oli tli&, .Da o sie road. I i j i · -.--- - --" ,.,
: __ _ ( . - The honourable member J.S a are th~t Govern:m.eiii as der .,siq ra ion certain measures fpr the re cti1n of fares oni tfiS roll •
Raizadll HailS - Raj : · Is the onourable Memb~r: a are · at :lJ.rH:i' ti ii· has been under the eonside tion[. of. - the Govern1• r1nt f the
,-'ohey11r? · , 1
• PteJiJl~nt _1 Order, order. ! ; i ! - · Mohab W: It iii admitt :th~i o.thers. also (~p.· pijed f
I wish to know whether license w ~uted to any ~f ~hiin· . I
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Mo!l'oR TnAN-sPORT l3El'WEEN P ATH.A.ttoT ANl> DALE:ous1E.
; . . ;U. lwzacla Bans .. j ~ Will the Honoru:a,ble the Rev~nue Member ' bcf pleased to state- . . , ... z, (a) how many private~Clll's ran ,~twee!} Pa.theinkot. and Dalhousie,
. ,Iro~ 1st April_ to. Slst Qcto~. l 926. ·and from ht . April· to · ' · · 30th June 1927, respectiv~ly;
_l_ • '_, ·• .1-. _ Ir•. ;
MoTOR RATES OHARGED BY CLIVE . T:iiiNsPORT Co. · · . .
•&21. Raiza~J Hans Raj: (i) Has it come :t<fthe notice of the Honour~ able the Revenue Member--
(a) that in th~ fust week of· August 1926 a deputation consisting of' respectable residents of Dalhousie waited· tq><>n the Deputy Commissioner, Gnrdaspur, at Dalhousie to -represent the hardship of the public and. to .urge. for the reduction of the motor rate charged by Messrs. Clive and C~mpany ;
(b) that a resolution for the diseussionof this question in the Mu.nioi· · · pal Committee signed by four members of the Dalhousie Boa.rd
was submitted to the Chairman (Deputy Commissioner), but permission was refused'? · '
(ii) Will the Honourable the Revenue .. Memb~r state what reply, the Deputy Comnrissioner, Gurdaspur, gave to fhe deputation 'l
._ •.. - (iii).Is the Government aware .of the· f.act ~hat on ·the '.Kalka~Simla • ap.d . Rawalpindi-Srinagar lines the motor· fare . per. _ seat . 'OOlllp&red . with .· I>athmikot~Dalhousie line works out. to about .one-eigh,th 'l ··- .The Ho~~urable Mian Sir Fazl-i .. Hu.sam :,(i) (a} Yes ... , " (b} flie attention of tb:a Honourable M~mberA.s invited, to .the reply ~.::given in. this Council on th~ 28th of Fe:bruary-: 1192-0 to 1q uestion No. 1881.
· (ii) The Deputy Commissioner assured the deputation that its represent- , . lltii~n would ~ive his syiµpathetic considetatio;n. . '
(iii) Th~ attention of the honourable fuemberis invited. to the reply given to his 2question No. :95 in :the February $0~sfon iOftb!eJ()owt-Oil.
*528; Cancelled. '
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The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl·i·Husain : . !rrhe-Honourable: Mem·· " berfinds me-at a disa.dv3?-tage in not having riea.lt with tb,e ease dtiring · the · course of the preparation of. the reply which I li.av~just now read to him • . I . belie'Ve the Honourable Member who put the . original question knows.
·: all about it. My recoltectio:o, is that Govemmenf have decided to make it ·•·'possible for others to obtain liQenses-, but the !'llformatfon which the Honour
able Member: now wants is not avaiJ,ablejust now. It can. be supplied to : hmi to-:tnorrow or later oo iflie desires. · · · . .
Lala. Mohan Lal: lshall be obliged if! am supplied with that infor· mn.tion.
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PUNJAB LEGIBLAT COUNCIL, [ ~lsorlNo ' ' : ! • . ' ' I d H11,ns Re.J.] : 1
. I : I .. ) how many owners and drive s of private car~ \w~re · 'sh d
during these periods for a ideri.ts due to negligs ee ; · () how many milit~ry cars raU: bet"'een.. Pathan~~+i . d ·. - · from 1st April to Slst O tober 1926 and µ-o,m 1st ·· · 80th June 1927, respectiv ly ; : · I i ( how many drivers . of militar ca.rs were puni~h~d d '
. periods for accidents· due o negligence ; . ! j ·
( ) on how many.· occasions durin th~. P .• eriod statJ·.d µi.·· (a) Jl allowed to run out of time; i ; j
how· many times during the st two years ca 1s pf Mess
and Comp~1;lY' hav~ run ut o1f t.ime with1'.u.4 ermi. · the authont1es concerned ?
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. , Honour~ble Mian Sir F . •i•1Ju$ain : ( a) ~e e , is not available. ! : i
c . . . : i I ' (b}·~pne.
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) The information is not availabl d) None.
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e) From 1st April to 31st October 926'1·
From Ist April to 30th June 19 7 1
The information 1is
not availabl . I i · j
' l .· TENDERS FOR LICENO TO :PL~ MOTOR ofiiis.
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. Raizada Hana Raj: With efer~noe to the cbu, uni · • he · the Civil and Milii.ary Gazette o the !1st May 1927 in w 'ch . . n definitely expressed their inten ion pf calling terel'S or
ly o or cars on the Pa.tha.nkot-Dalh usie] reed, will t e ;H non eve Member be pleased to state- I : i
I' I a) whether the terms for the lie nse twere publish di· any
. if so, the name of the pa er ot papers and ib;e ate cation ; 1 • f l
) the number .of tenders recei ed, i.with the Ila ~S and the rates quoted ; . ! . J.
) the decision arrived a.t by Go ernn:ierit ? I ! I ' I·:
Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i u~: (a) A D!otic invi · hea io s for road certificates for the thankot-Dalhousis !R ad
th sues of the Civil and Military Ga ette,:da.ted the 12thl 8th f J y, in the issues of the Tribune, H d'µ, jHerald and ! Ji.1 lim ate t e.l8th, 14th and 15th of July, and fin,the issues!o• he ..-11.1m""""' ate 16th, 18th and 19th July. 1 • ! i
. b} Twenty-on:e. (rhe tenders we e c~nfidentia.l, ~u~ Gov- s· no epared to state the names 9f, th te~derers or the) r~te ten
) Government has decid..ed th~tr .d c~rtin.cate& ,v~li4 ··tor-· ousi. ·oacfriiay ?eissned to Messrs, . raitj,. :p.ass and 99.,jof Lah ese e. Ma.khan Smgh and Sulakhan ·S gh/ of Rawalpitjdi: •
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])EP~:r.Co:~u.ussIONER, KANGRA, AND. p'OWER;TO GRANT·MOTOB L~CE1'iOES •
./', _ , ·532~ _. :lWzada Hans Raj: Will the Honoure.ble 'thl'.aeveiiue Meriib~ '~e pleased 'to state wh~ther it is. a. fa.ct that the. pqwer to grant JiC~$ fQr
-plying motor'cars on hire in. the :f<e.rw-a .district has recently been te.ke1,1 '•way froni - the· Deputy Oo~sione:r. and it has _ been transferre!l. to:the "·Commissioner of the Julluridur diVll!ion? · ff so, why? · · ·
. . T.he Honourable · Mian· Sir Fazl~i-Husain : . Some time ·ago the ~·conunissio.o.-er of Jullnndur withdrew from the Deptuty Conunissionei:. Qf "'Xangra: the power to grant road certificates valid for theKa.ngra V a.lley Roaij._. "This was; however, on!y a, temporary measure, and the question'of restoring ithe power to the Deputy Commissioner is no~ being considered. · ·
- -.: . L':IOENBE ·;() PLY:' -uo·t6a (JARS )311.lTWEEN ,:PATRANJ.tOT AND ;13.A.IJNATH. .
:: . ,, . '*531. Raizada Hans a.·-~ Will the Honoutable·tne Jlevenue·Membeii ~~'.J>leased_:tostafi87-·> ,"1 ·: .. _•·5.' ,~ · .. - - ::
- :(a) whether Messrs. Cliv,e. and JJomp8i11f afe' ll~nsed ~t<>_ ply mo~t v~oles between Pa.tha.nkot ·.and. 13aJjna~h-;. . -· .. ·· · · · .'
. (b) whether there a.re a.ny othe~ ta.xi li00Df!0-'holders on 'that line ; (c) whether th~ ~~her of Iieeases is limited; u so, for;~ha.t rea.son1
The l{onoura'ble J,wian Sir Fazl,;.i .. Husain :· (r,i) Yes. (b) Yes. . (c) Yes, in view of the dangerous nature of the road. The question of
,,the restriction of road certificates on the Pathankot-Baijnath road ·is under -essmination by Government. ·
Raizada Hans -Raj: Is this rood bad· only .for taxies or is· it bad for ~ J)riva. te cars also ?
The HonourableMian Sir FazJ..i ... Husain: 'I.belie-vethe honourable zmember wa~ts the Government to undertake responsibility: f6r the safety
-~~f the public, 1: nd at the. same time e:iercise control 9ver trafik That is a , ;.principle to wliich, l regret, I cannot agree. . . . · ..
... · . ~dallansRaj: What is the precednre adopted with regard to . .l!ur,ree and Simla Roads ?. , · . .', ' · •
.. : \The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl .. i .. Husain':. Without making oo.· '',qtiiries, I. cannot possibly tell the honourable member the exact procedure
adopted in those roods. ·· Mr. President: lam afn?iid I must invite attention .of the honour·
able members -to Rule 10. -Bupplementary questions can. be caked ior the, ·- purpose .c,f further elucidating any matter of fact , regarding which . an ,.answer has boon. giten_. Supplemelitary qu~stfon:s should. not· take _ t}le '7.form ·of oross--examina.ti~n., in a court of law.. , ·· · - ~~~-a
Raizada Bans Raj: Why- were the o~hler ·. a pplieants not granted ·~~oh license? > . ' r' . ' ,. :··-.- r• ," ." • -- -' -· ••
_ The llonourabhs Mian Sir-Fazl-i·Busaua: I wa.nfilotice· 'ot tlie '--question. .
107-9 STABBED QUESTIONS A.ND ANBW'BBS.
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I . :.l'UNJAB: ;LilGlli!LA IVE ',CQUNOIL. [ ~ls~ No
. . . .AccouN:rs OF THE GRE CA~Ar,, FEROZEiok11l
"' • Lala Kesho Ram, Sekhri: a) Will the Hono*91bl~ the Me · b r be .pleased to state if the ace . unta of the Grey: Canal, F wer dited in 1926? If so, will he lease lay a copy bf[t.~e au on t e table ? i , I I
- ' . l ) . (b If the audit report be not av ilable, will the Blonottmbl · ·
>Plila & s.tate whether it is a f~ot that ef~qations of a ~eqorls na bee rotight to notice by the audito in J;ris report? If/1. -wh
~ lJeI! . against whom allegations of ~ falc. ~.tion have be~n': a.de acti n as been taken on these allegatio ~ ! : I !
. · e Honourable Mian Sir Fazl i·Husain: ·(a) f ~i;i. Acti rep rt is under consideration of Gove etj.t and no usefuJ p rpo sm d by laying a co'py of the· report n tµe' table. / i
(b The report purports to implie te t,he Superinte'n.4 j ' 11
I '. !. I I a Mohan Lal : The answers to y questions Nos~ 5~4 o 5
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Mr. President: I may invite tten~ion of the hhnlu ·. ble em ers. tion~ regarding the manner O put;.t~g questions.! f hes ins~r C- e. printed at pages 91 and 92 of the Punja~ Cons, tntio al
T,,_ . I I I . • u.ey are :-:- . : . , : "When questions distinguished by aste · ~ reached, I wm! c11-'.Jl ib succ "on
each member in whose name a quest on ~nds and he will ~e an.~ a,sk · "on, by a reference to the number prefl d to ~t on the list of n,u~tions. ere n,
. the member tQ whom the question · admts9fld will rise an[ ftiPf Y·" ,. I find that some honourable mem ers.]" ·_instead of1refe · g- .nly to
mber of their question stand up nd ~a.y" the .reply ~o uest n ~ • e read." I wish this may be av ided in future. 1 ~ · k a efere ee-
e number alone is quite sufficien . I : . I i , I : l I ,
GOVERNMENT HOSIERY I STIT1UT,E, LtJDHIAN.4. ,' 11 ,1
. "' Lala Moun Lal: (a) W'. the!Honourable ~serf Ed oa· t10 b pleased to state who prepared t e scheme of the qove e t Ho · ry · Ins i te 'opened at Ludhiana and hat l are his qualiftciio for he· p o e? . : · I : . I l
. (b) Is the Honourable Minister -waie that there ,1isl a. Rosi ciat O composed of the manufacture of I Hosiery at I Lu · . an 'Will h· please state whether this Assoc· tion! was consulted ~e re t :was p epsred or whether it was sent o th~ ,A.ssociat10ili for\. re ~' · t were the remarks of the Asso · tion ? And if fOt,, why the !locia.tion consulted, either boo e ot. after the ~repratio sohm? · 1 .;
e llonoura1,Je Mt. Manohar Lal.~ (a) The t¥e~ du nr- vey r Ludhiana, under instructions om ithe Director] oi :Iindus ies, ire-- : :;f,.: t~he scheme. The officer cone , ed] dµly_ consul~e~ +xp_e ~ on the,
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PUBo:e:AsE oF sToBEs FoR Tm1 itos'DltilY fiisrt~mE. ,:c, .-:,•!11.~ iala'Mblian t,iJ: {a)-\vm the Hoii0'1t.abl~ Miiuste_r for Educa.~ tion _:please· st~te w~e_ther ~he Hosiery Exper1; ·his' sozM · intetest: .in the--
·W®I St~r8 e.l Lutlliiana 'l . ·• -: , , · .,-.,~>-li-~~t ~_,}ac~ t~p,~v~~~IltJ)~ehll.~e_1(i~_~oh~ty-~n1l_sw~~
from t e vvoo, otores? . , . . , .
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HOSIERY EXPERT.
. _ .' *63&,. Lala .Mo1-n Lal : Will the HonQma.ble ~ter for Eduoa.· _,tion pl~ s~te-= : · · ·' · · · (a) ··hqw. many. oimdida.tes applied' for' thij· iJ(>St' of ·Hosiery :m~ett
· . and_ ~ha.~ a.r~ .th~ qualification& of the ~ndida.te who was even· tuaJly selected ;
(b} w4ether it is a. fa6t that a competitive_ test :was held fooelooting .: a.uandidate for the post : a:nd if so; by·w:honund wbat7a:re~tli,e-
·. .. . . quaJifioa~ions of the ex.a.miner or ~xaminets concemed 'J : The HonOU!'ahle Mr. ,Man~hai' Lal i (a) Seven candfde.tes ap1Jlied for
the post of the Hosiery Expert. Th~ candidate selected is a practical knitter ·· of 11 years' experieace.in India. He has also studied the working of Italian,
and Sw~iffactories and in particular took an advanced course in' knitting a.t, !_IF P 6pps · 'Knitting · School ·'' In Vienna .
. · · {li) :.J;iie reply ,is in the negative.
\ • v , MACHINERY FOR HosmRY INSTITUTE 4-:r LubHIANA. : . ••• LpJa Mohan .Lai : . (~) Will the HonourQ,ble Minister for Edit··
~tion please state what amount has been invested on the machinery set. lp in:the Hosiery Institute a.t Ludhiana and' also from whom it was bought. and w4ethet tena.ers were called fot before. purchasing the I®chinery ? If the answer to the last part is in the affirmative, will the Honourable Minister- plea.se lay, tlia copies of. tlie. tenders on the table ? ' ' :(1>) I~ it a tact that some second hand machinery was bought for the-. Government.· Hosiery · Institute from the Woo1 Stores; Ludhiana ? Is it -also ~ fact th&t this. business was owned by the Hosiery Expert before he· -was apPointed _to his present post? If so, will the Honourable Minister please state who vs.lued:this machinery?
~: .. :~ BonO'lirahle Mt. Ma.io,iar Lal:. (a) A sum of Rs; 10,828 has i'-ffi3en.spent '® the ptifohasa of machinery. _·The maeltinery WPS purohe.sed from firms in Lahore and Ludhiana. Quotations were obtained from vali·
· bl.ls firms and submitted-totheindiim' Store~ Department through the 1unjab .. Government for examination. . · ·, · · ·
.. .. (b), -TJle answer _t<>, tqe fi_r.st part 9f, the,, q~~tion il.jn.'·, tbe:~egative .. ~he answer to the second a.hd third parts of the question, therefore does not
Lttrlse.
(b) The answer to the first and second parts of qiiestion·is irtthee.ffir. , mat~, ~e:Assooijltion agreed with the department-'s proposals but offered.
·no usef;U..\ 1n1gge~ion13, .
ioat ... \ ,:·.ii
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. i J.>UNJAB LEGIBLATIV OO'UNOIL, [ 21BT ~OVB
I ala M ban Lal. ] · i · I
(c If the answers to (a) and (b) re in the affirma.tiv~, th no a le Minister please state wheth th~ Governmen~ has co der~
e d si ability of stopping the purchase f stores required ~or lhe l[ sie t-it e rom this firm ? : 1 i
• ' I I ' ' e Honourable Mr. Manohar L : · :(a) It is und;erstood t t t}l xpert has now no direct interes in the Wool Stores t Lu.1.1,1111aJ.1111
. terred it to bis son on his appoi m01).t to the presen~ p st..' Some stores have been purchas d from the Woo~ S~o es,
p ch s · have not been extensive. f 1 ! . . . (6 t is not desirable to prohibit th purchase of sto~esi fr Ill t -r fett d o ; but in view of the indirect · ere~t which the : :S:os ery h sin t · matter, Government has order that all purcha~es ,om t ,s all e eported and scrutinised by the D eot~r of Industribsi
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· DAR LABH SINGH, AssoouirE ~ P OFE~B~R ov Ao o~ URE,
• Rana Firoz•ud-Din Khan : With reference tb th ans er t :S a.rrA · question· No. 222, will the Ho oura.ible Minister I for ~Agri ltur P ease s ~te-,. ! : J i
( if h.e is aware that the offic. er ppolnted to the post f s cia.t Professor of Agriculture pa sed his B.Sc. Agrichl ure · 192 in the third division and obt ined marks less th.a~ is pu "ls ;
. ' . I ' (b whether the appointments of Professors and As~ iate rof
~ors of th? ~gricultural ~o legej Ls:allpur, ar' e ! m de cord mg to seniority or aocordin to l[Il~nt ; j ·
(e whether he still considers the ppoihtruent of Sa~da.r Lab to the post of Associate ofe~so:t of Agric4ltµr as transfer and not a promoti n ; i : r !
the pay Sa.rda.r La bh Sing~ w s d~a.~g as an JA~si t~nt sor, and the pay h? has be n. d1awmg as an l~~s c~t sor and the rates of mereme t m 1the two ca.pac1t~e ?
: I ' _, h Honouarble Sardar Jogendr Sijigh: (a) Ye$.
qa on took the examination volunt · y'l 10 years aRfr !h lleg e nrse, , 1 1
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( ) · coording to the necessities of t e department, eeni.Qrit · an th considered. i • . I i : . I :
e meaning of this portion of he · iuestion is nf t i ders
( He draws the same pay, Rs. 85 per mensem, inl~n wpo oat with the addition of an allo anc~ of Rs. 80 per i m nse
f increi:qent is unchanged. . . . .. 1 ' • J . :
- Fuoz~ud·Din Khan : May knojv if the gentl~~ has . her pr?:p1otion ? . . . ! I . I i - ·
Honourable Sardar Jogend a Singh: I have giv D a . answer to.,part (d). i ! . i : .,, ... -·' ' ..
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An~xss10N TO TB:Jl!'.A.GRI<ltJ:LTO'Jµ:f.< C<>LLEGE, LYA,LftPUR.
•541.-- Rana.f'iroz•~d-Din Khan~ Will the Honon~ble the Minister for :Agriclllture please state-:- . · _ _ · -- .,
:· : _ i.' (~)' if ifi$'..ii f~Qft~~t a Muslim strident\-vh~:-Jiad-passetithe :F.Sc.· ex-, · '. · - · - , amipa~ipJi~ iii· the medical gr~lfp = froin __ ~~ Mu,-sµn.{, A.ligarh ' University 'in the second divisjon · was refused admission to·
the. ·_Ag#ctiJ.t4ril.1 _ ·coflege, 'Lj.ii.Upur t; if -• so; the · reasons for> the-·same ·
- r ~- (b) if it i1{a' f~~t that a. Muslinl' candidate• who. secured - _558 .ma.rb. . - and passed-the Mat_ricula.~on ·a;amin:Stiori in the first divisioiL _.
was not admitted to' the .Agricriltuml College ;" if so, the rea- - sons for ~he sa.nle r .
~'. ,_. ·· · F:aui:T AND MILLET SPEOIAiiISTs •.
. ·- · •540.. Rana Fll'Oz-ild-Din Khan :Ja)'.\Vill' ·the Honourable Minister for Agriculture please state if it is a fa.ct .th~t th1:i:Governnient propose to:
· apppint a fruit specie.list and a millet specialist ? · · -- · · -- · - - · ·
', - · _ (b) If so, does he intend to appoint .suit.able Musliins to these posts;' tm,d i if ri.aoes~ry, _to -send fit· :Muslims · already -- in _ service to - foreign countries. f()r t~inmg 'in. these' subjects ? .
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: The appointment of a.· s~ond,fruit sveoialist .snd that of a. specie.list for millets have since· been m.Ma~· - . . -
At>P~INTMENT i, ~RE _0Fno1. .. Tm~ DmEoToB o, A.onxoULTUl\E. - *539;- Rana,F°ll'o;lid·Din Khan: - Will• the Honourable Ministedor
Agnculture be pleased to state : · · - , \~) wh~ther he- is _a.ware tha,t. t~e a.pp~intment 0£ the officia.ting
Director. of Agriculture, Punjab,. l'ias .ca.us_ed great dissa.tis_- -- . faction : ~ ._ . . . . ,. . ," ' .....
(b} whethe:i: he has received. any repr~enta.trons or protests on th& S!bject. .
c The Honouriible Sardar Jogendra Singh : - (a) The appointment has. been ma.de in the _ best interests of the a.dministl'a.tiori~ Government is.
· .. not aware 'of any such dissa.tisfa.otion a.s requires action onita .. part, - - - '(b) !es; .
Rana Firoz .. ud-Din IQ.an : I want after __ that. - The Honouarble Sardar Jogendra -- Singh : I- a.m not - awares
oFit. 'But l want"notice,of this ·question.
toss _STA.BRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWlDBB.
PUNJAB LEGISLATIV oouscn., 0
'----· -- -
R na e oz-ud-Din Khan.] ) whether any non-Muslim oandi ates with qualiiic4ti ,ns s·,
to those mentioned in (a) a d (b) above were; r~fn ed sion ; if so,· their names and q alifipa tions ; I :
d) whether t~e numbe~ of Sikh .s udents admitted ittjis year proportion to their populatio ; i · I ; - :
e) if it isa fa.Qt that a number of Sikh students joi4ed. t e A tural College, Lyallpur, in t e third year class iilif er their Intermediate examin tion I .in Agricu~~uire fro Khalsa College, Amritsar TI\ $0, will itl ~o in the number· and percentage of Sikhs in degre~ lasse ultimately in the .Agricultu 1 Department OU~ ~f ll p tion to their numerical str . t}l ;! . i j ! _
J) how the Government proposes t S?l~e ~his problem f Honourable S~d..- Jogendr, S~~ : ,(a) ~est , !
st den o had appeared m the F. Sc. E lllllfa,t~on m the !M~ U iver it , 'but the result of whose exa · a.tiop was not knb~ n of sel ti n, did not secure admission to the Punjab Agriqult al C L Up , firstly because he was over-age and is~ondly bec'.a~se two I
e did t from the same district with bett r qualifications h~d be n sol ' ' I I
(b) es. The candidate to whom th honourable mem et efer · was co side e too yo~g. his p,ge according to the ~ecord given er l~ ~rs an 7 onths. I ) ·
{c) oes not arise, ! ' I (d) . o, 'Jliere is no rule to ~his e:ff ct. I . : [ (e) ( ) Yes. (2) N.ot :necessarily as e students of the tp
e tn.1'8o · ollege, Lyallpur, have no guarsu ee o~ e:r,.· ploym&11 m.· :_ t tu l e artment, i , J·
(j) _ oes not arise. i : , i · . . I i I
S Ujjal Singh : Is it a ~act th t the Agricultnra.J Qo ege, •. 11· , is h o. nly college in the Punjabwher facilities for agrir' ult ral
id d <> I ' · a e provi e . , : : ! e Honourable ~dar Jogen~a S~h : I thin~ s~.
SCALE OF PAY li'OR THE Su~ORDI ATE! EDUCATION1L ~~ :V~<;J )..ala Bodh Raj: (a) With r er~.ce to the 'di~c~s on h
· on 29th June 1926, on suppl Jin[ta:cy demand] f<)r du ononrable the. Minister for Educ tiori please st~tei i~ t e qn
t oduetion of tune-seal~ of pay for thEl snbord1;11~t~ no s referred to the Standing Comm tteejon Educatio~?: so, what proposals were made o th;e Governme~t i b th said
· and what action bas been taken th~r~on ? i I . onourabl~ Mr. Manobar : . ~a), Yes. ! · i e Committee desired further in onp,~.tion, which !h~s now een nd will be placed before the Co itr •t the n1 •rpr i s-
CRA.UDllBI ·Fm' A.LI KHAN, TAHSJLDAB, SmsA. . *544. .Lala Bodh Raja (i) Will the Honoura ble .the .Revenue J,fem· :
ibe:r: please state-« · ·. ·' (a)' wh~ Oba.u.dhri. Fa.fa Ali Eh~. the present 1ahsildar, Susa, wa~ ;!
·. accepted a,s'a. candidate ,for ·na.ib-ta.bsilda,mhjp; · ·· .. . ·· ; {b} if it is a faot that his appointment as a, tahsild1tr hai! resulted in. ..
. . -. . the Sllpersession of :mlllly na.ib.:.tahsildara who. w~e senior to . him in grade and ·semee ; . .
(c) if :it. is ~-Ja"t that last year the Commissioner, Ambala division, _. .· .... · _.had O~detaj. l!,is reyQ_?Sion !O -~aib•ta.hsilda-nthip f. .
. '. ,' (dfif it is .a. fa.ct tl).il;t }µs name ·~all tl_gw be~_reeorqm~d'i3d)or ~e. .: : ·- , ' , post of Extra Assistant Commissionet-? " lf so, what· are' the -
speoial reaaons for sueh rooommendation·?' · ·· · ·· -: ~{iifii the. reply. ~.i>att };) be in the affi!lli~tive~ will the I{onmuable
:M~,p,'b~r;I4~afi s~te what w~te 'th~ r~i,ons fQrJ:ris:revetsi9n fl . . - , ,: ·; the Hcmow.•J,le Miao, ~ F.d-$ .. Hti~ :: ·,(l} (~) On !>th A,P,ril. ~- . . I :·- . . .•• ,° ••• : '. -~
I ·:. : (b-), ¥es.. E:e w.pead~ a' few ffilaih•~c·MU)· w~e §ithei - · ,or had not passed the tahmdai,m· ~ . . . . - . - . . . - .
(o) Yes. (d,}:.AU;~datiom':fo~ tlie:post-iOf:~ Aasisiimt. .;Conµ,niesioner
.ariu,o,nfidentiaJ..: G~vernme1lt is not prepared to .s-~te, whether. a . ,:enom• .
.Jtlelldatiol) bas <>? haJ oot be.en m$d.e"inJavQ1U' of Pb,:i.udlni _Fe,iz Ali :Khan. · · :('it) An order was passed to revert film temporarily ,owing · to the re· ·
vesion Qi' & very 10nior ·Qfiieer, M. .Siddiq Ahmad ~; from. the Settle- · ment · Department, but as tha.t officer.· di~ not event~y, r~ven; froU.i· th.~t ;
': ..
SUBORDINATE E01;10ATf;ONAi, Snvum. : 3 ~ : "'543.. · Lala Bod1i Raj::· :wrrf the lI6notWLofe" tbE,· Minister.: ·fqr\
:.Education please state-« · :: ' · · _, (a) the inoreesemade in the-number of posts in the several grades
· in the . subo-l'CliM.te ~dqoa.tion~l ;SE3.f.'·yu,~ with the object of .. r~movinS, to some extent the serip11s: block in promotions
· '· which has been admitted .by the d~pa.rlmeiit to ·be inimical to • ' a good and eoritented"servioe; .. . . . ' : . ;
(b) how n:,.any of siich posts. in the sev~ral- gra.dl;JS have been allotted : to those persons who possessed good · qualifications, had · go6<la : record' of work and had been suffering in promotions for want -~
) ; ·: ~' ; c; i . of the tune~imale ·system and how ; iniiny to those who ha. ve ': .r .. : : been lately recruited in the dep1l.-rtmen.t, tha.,t; is,. w.itlfut "1to- -, ~
;· ., . .fast fiv-e years 7 - : . · . , ., , . ,. · - . '. l, • .l.,.· . _. -· . ...,~ > · Th~-H~iiout"bie Mr. -~h.at i.i _:: (a) 86~ '. · · (b) '(if26.. . . . . . . (i1} 10, the majority ofJhese promotions -~~_given to headmasters
..of sehools, · · ;- -. - · · · ·, ·0 ,· ... ,
1085 : . . STABBED. QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
ian Sir. Fasl-i-Husain.] ent, Chaudhri Faiz Ali Khan ost of naib-tahsildar.
COUNCIL.
i
i
[2ls~ No I i
d not, as ~ mat,er of fac , rev : • . ·I . i · i i I
MENTAL HosPIT ,, L,+HORE. ! j ·t. • Laia Bodh Raj : Will the onoura hie Ministet f r L c 1 Se f-
. ent please state if it is a fact th the percentage o, tbe dail vera e tr gt . diseharged a.s cured from the Me11,taJ Hospitel] ~allore, eclin d
o. m 1 ·~5 in 1924 toJ4·11 in 1925 and 1 ·4V······ in'. 1926_, a1''.d !1"~£0, at re· he :,; ons for the decrease ? ! I i · • · · · · · i · ' I
e ·Hono~able Malik Firoz an, Noon: ~e gure e Hohourable Member for '1924 a d 1925 are correqt, ! b t .it
cettained that the figure for 19 6 sb;ould be 12 · 87. \ e r p a.rent decrease appea~ ~<? lie · the differing views I of · · :tendents as to · wnat patients s ouldl be discharged ias cure
. : . 1· ; . . MENTAL HosPIT , ~AHOBE, I j
. Lala Bodh Raj: (a) Will- he Honourable Mi.his er f elf- · ernment please state if it is a f ct that the latestj ah t an
· on e . ort of the accounts of the Men ta Hospital, Lahore; app ars ate t at stricter supervision of expe · ture would result] · con
• o I , .: on es, i I : ·. : · · b) · If so, "\vh_at 'ac~ion has been ta en to curtail or te~re ch · 011 1 heavy expenditure ?' ' : I I
· (o .Bas the ·Honotlrable.· Minister called for the ·fi~e ot' e pen me o Mental Hospitals in other 'prov ~es[? . ·If so,' ~ ~e plea e lay he . )e the figures of cost per annum f r th13 last three y1a~s . . .
e lionourabl~· Malik'Firoz , No~n : (a) Y~. - •,- '· - . : I _ I I_
c .. (l! .~he Sup~rintendent o.f the M ~al i Hospital and .• n offio Indi Civil Service were appomted tor port on the matt~r sn the re s. are o under consideration. · · . \ i J
(c Government have obtained fi es for two .or three ho~pital in ot er pro · ce~, but as ~be mere ~gures of e st per h~ad, with~~t exa · tio ol tbe re tiv.e ~uffic1ency. ?~ diets, scale of ~lot.bing,. scale1s ff at nda ee, · seal s f medical supervision, ete., won d be misleading, G~ve . e I do· .o~ .. pro o e to _lay any statement. on the able i at present. I If t e b o le m b ~ wishes to obtain the figures i edia.tely be ca~ d so om he- ann a reports of the mental hospitals fot~el' provincesj i .. , : :
i I i i I I
'.' :'i ; .ALLEGATI-ONS AGAINST CR.A.VD F .MZ ALI,' TAHd1~p , S . ·'' · * 47. ··Lala Bodh Raj : . W_ill . t ~ Honourable . Mhps er: f
Self G :veriiment p1ea~e state 1f it is fac-t· that senous] a egat ma e- gainst Ch. Faiz Ali, Tahsildar, Sirsa, in Dholewali el etio file y Dr. Maluk Singh ? - If so, . as. -ap.y enquiry beln nd a:iid w 'at was the rasult oHhe enquiry ?. i ~ . ... . ,; .. .
O·
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. .. *549~ J~Ja' ~- Raj : wm · the Ilono~able Minister for Local &U~GovernmentJ .please ,state- , . . . · .. < .·. .. . i
. ('();) if it is a Jaot. :that . the Deputy . Commissioner; Mult~n., . 1witb!
I
reference to Sanitary Commissi<mer's)etter No. 1935., dated 28rd July 1891, .stated th~t as.regards Multaii city he . did . not t:hink that the matter of pipe water supply was urgent and
, ·. that J,4e water drawn frpmthewells was generally good ; {b) if it is a fact that th~ then resident memb,~s of tlie city went
: tt ;, a,l~o: against tl:te introduqtion of wa.ter .supply on . the ground' . ..... ·that the housesiri the $lity,0b~ing, ka9ha, would b13 dsmagod , .{c). if.jt is a fa.ct tb.a.tJor the. reasons ,stated above the water supply
scheme was dropped ; ,
N oMINATION · oF B. :P:ci.mEi LAL :FOR· MEMBERSHIP OF SmsA . . . :M$ICIPALITY. .
*548. I.ala Bodh Rajr ('/,}Will 'the Honourable Minister for Local Self-GoverI11.p.ent . please state .. if it is a fact. that B. • Piyare . Lal, Pleader,
, Sirsa, who shift~ to .Hissar in .January 192;6 .· a.nd .b;asbee~ practising. there . since th1;1n has been a11pointed a -member of the Sirsa, Municipal Committee by C9Illlnissfoner1s notification N<>. 29, dated 23rd Marclll927 ?
> . (ii} If the reply to part (i) be in the affirmative, willi i;he Honourable Ministei: please state the special reasons for his a,ppointment ?
.> The Honourable Malik Piro~ Khan, Noon; ·(i) and (ii) Govern menthavenoixuormation as to whether the gentleman in·question moved to Hissar in Ja,n11a,ry 1926. He was elected a, mem~r of the Municipal committee. of Sirsa. in ~eptember ·. I 924.. · In the folfowin{f year he and eer ~ other ~ml>ers resigiJ.ed ; but. they subs~quen.tly withdrew th~. resig na#ons. They lvere,. h.owev~r;.restrained from r~ their seats o.n the, · committee by' an injunction issued by a civil court ; and as Government
. ~nsidered Jhat it wa~ . undesirable that the conuni~tee should continue. to ®ietion -witli ll majority, ol the members debarred from taking part·in its. p~oceedings, they ~ooided to @:act that the seats of the members wlili had · nsigned should be v~cated and that they shotild be filled by appointment ·· until .the next general el®tion of .the committee.· .. The~ sea.ts' having been \'acs.ted >.accordingly';they .were a,ppouited: members by the Commissioner:
·· LaLr. Bc,dh· Raj:,: Will the Hi:lnourable· :1\1:~ID;ber please · -eare to · enquire whether the gelltleman •referred to ha.s. shifted:to Rissar ? · ·r .. · Tlie.11onourabl¢:MaJik Firoz Kb~ ·N~.lll if the" honourabl& member w-ould ~e th.a.ii: matter.to be enqtµred int(} ·and, if he will kindly: uk_the questi<>njn th~ zegu.Ia,r fo:,;m, I shall ha, ve f.y_ enquired into.
_,, - ··i"<f',_-:,.,·I,::..~::<·,;.\_\~7- ; ... ,; .. ' ,' ---- ~--· .. · .--c'··-
. The Hon,«>urahle Malik Fuoz Khan. Noon : ¥es ..... An e~quiey wa1( begQil .. by S. Nisar Qutb . and completed by .· M. Basheshar .Singh, and the report of local officers is under consideration. . . . .
1087~ STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS •
·. Raj.]
PUNJAB LEGISLATI E COUNCIL.
: I I
[11•+· .1~. I ,
if it is a fact that the matt was again takenl up t th tive o~ ,a Deputy Commissi ner without any
11r~so tio
Committee ? .. . , I I !
Honourable Malik Fuoz Kh , N~on: (a) and (p) Yes. ' I I nd (d) No. I !
I I • I i
W ATER~TAX IN Mu~lrA;N. I j
• Lala Bodh Raj: (i) Will e Honourable Minist r fo Self· o ernm.ent please state- i I !
( ) if it is a fact that to meet he Jxpenses of tater sup Municipal Committee, Mult n, i~- levying a water tax the imposition of which th people' have prot~~e ;
( ) if it i~ a fact that the deput tion[ o~ the rate-~~te s of . ulta . waited up. on the Hono. urab e Mfni.$ter request"l,g that oas ·
the municipality cannot eet ~he expenses iof ater uppl . · wi.th their prese1:t funds •. t e p~. ple of Mul ai. oul. rat~ r . not have the pipe water supply or that he um palit .
· ~hould have rocour.se to s me tndi.·rect for:µi] o~. axat n, f . instance, the terminal ta. ? I , i
, ( ~· If the reply to part (b) be in he 01:ffi.tmative, will lhe plea · he ends before giving his approval to ~he water-ta! to call pop. o al of.termin. a. 1 tax from the m "oip.alit. y that h~v~.· een s ee lo g for final decision ? 1 I i
' . Honourable Malik Firoz ; I N~on : ( i) le a\ GOV'Antlllllf!tl der . d tha.t proposals for the im osit~on of a. wa.t~rfta ha. be
ubli d by t!ie committee, but are ot ~ware whether Ian ob" _ t:io, ~. ave b n received. The proposals ha e not yet reache~ P vern ent.
(} £consultation was held. with ·t e m~mbers ofth~ i icip ·O<l ,= itte o dis_cuss their financial position but i I d, o not re~er;nber th" p<>' tj
a.yin een ra.~sed. The Municip&l Co mit~ee moreover] df~ not . enti t IS p here m the address that the presented to rrle,: whi th y
iseu se in great detail the water wo ks apd municipal flpa ces. ( "i) Does not arise, ! ! I .
a Bodh Raj: Will the Honour ble I Member ple~s~ sate i f ct t _a approval has been given to th rates sanctioned iht t e M
om tee? I ! 1
. Honourable Malik Firoz Kb , ~ot>n: I ~a~t otic oft e uesto. ! Ii
a Bodh Raj : Is the Honoura le l\;fember a wart ~f he f t th t he a p ovelhas been published in the unj4h Gazette? i
Honourable Malik Firoz an, ~oon: I c1~0 ans . rt~ t ff-h n . If the honourable member a ks ~ regular que,tipn I 1 gi e
er. If the approval has been ublished in the paze te h oug t that, ! I !
o2
SMALL ToWN CoMm'.TTEE, JALALPUB- P.mwAtL _ *652.- Lala Bod& Raj : Will the Honouxal:>le l\finist~l'. for Local
·self-Government please state if he is aware. otthe_ fact that· the attention -of:the:lo(lala.uthorities of Mltltan has been dtaiw-n by the .-people of Jalalpur Pirwala to the following judgments and ordent to' the e:ll'eQ't' that ,the Presi
.dent of the Small '.lrown , Committee; Ja1alp1ll'.. Pwwa.la., · has., .no_ claims whatsoever to any vacant sites of the said town· and that· all his. encroach· ments are.unlawful'-- · · -
(i) Civ#,- appeaJ No. 91 instituted. on, 2nd February lSM and decided: on 19th February_ 1864,' by t}ie, Civil Jtldge, Multan, in case regarding Mohan Pera, son of · Chetan, caste. Thakar, and Diwan~ Muhammad Ghaus :(grandfather ot- the- present
. President) s. Looha Ram and othata ; . · (ii) Deputy Commissiongr's .order, dated 28th November 1865, in
· revenue case No: 59;"'1ll~tituted _o;o. 18th May 1865,: by which the claim of Diwan Muha.mll\a.d Ghsns- (gr~ndfa.tlwi: ·of the present President) to· sev·e;t"afwells wa.s dismissed ;-
.(iii):Case · Nii. 169 instituteq .on 9tli S~pternber l870;1decided_ OJ! 27th_ November 1872;
E51TIMA;TE~ FQB PIPE WATER SUPPLY,Mtn.TAN~
*551. Lala- Bodb &.di]: Will the Honourable ¥ini~tef' for Local :Self~Gov~ment please state- · - - - __ ·
- (a) if it _is a f_aot that original estimates for. pipe water supply for . .Multan when the idea -started amounted to a sum between 2
- - and 8 lakhs arid that the presertt estima~ aniount to more - - than J l lakhs ; if so, what a.re the reasons-for suon - an extra.-
ordinq,ry . difference ; - c. ' • . . (b)- if it is a fact that the present estimates are based on prices of
commodities during the days of the great European war '} The .Honourable Malik Firoz. Khau, N.oon: (a) ?he pl,"elirninary
:acheme prepared in 1918 was estimated to cost Rs. S,56,8~0. based on a;, -supply of 10 gallons a head for a population of 50,000 _ only~ ie~i th~ popq .. Ja.tion of the. city only, exclusive .. of.t-be--suburbs · and the civil station. The estimated cost of the scheme prepared in 1922 was Rs. J0,82,805, based on a. supply -of 16 gallons a. head for a, population of 95,000, and allowing
:for expansion toQdmit of a s11ppJy-0f 25 gallons a h~dif a~d ~h~ th_e water • carriage system of·sewe,ra.ge•is introduced..... ..
(b) No~ Th~ present_ }3atimates are based .o~ .ratea for material and ]about p'.rijvailing in 19~.-- · · - ,
. . . .
Lala Bodh Raj: Will the Honourable Memqer pleasE}-sta-t1nvhQ, 11:1 -to give the approval to th~ ,:ates sanctioned by the Municipal Com~ittee ?' • _
. The Honourable Malik Piroz Khan,j Noon : tt will lia.ve to be -done according to the law as it exists on the subject. ~ .. , : ! ;..
STAI\BEU QUl!)ST:CONS AND ANBWEllS,
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, PUNJAB LBGISLAT VE ~Ol)NOIL. I 2j\ I I I
odh Raj.] : i i i , {'1>) Case No. ~' instit,ute~ on. 4th! April 1877, ~~i ed
· · December 1877, regardmg D1 an ~uhammad Glh~u v. Muhammad · and others ; 1 i I 1
•
) Appeal to t~e. Co~ssioner fro~ the order, ~rt¥. 28th · her 1877, decided on 29th y 187$, by whlhi t e
Diwan Muhammad Ghans was I di~missed e en ain who had admitted his cla · in the! first oonr ·i
i) Appeal from the Commission r's d:rd~r, dated 2 t M - to the Financial Commission r, abdded on 2 r Au
· by which the Shamilat land as lleld to be the~p op rty Khewatdars ; . t : .
ii) Land acquisition case No. 90 in w, ·~'h the final o de for to all the Khewatdars as a e on 16t o em
. . in spite, 9£ tl~e f_act. tha~ t e s 1~d1 Diwan c ai d t
, money J9r h1ms:elf ? · . I . . · , · · Honourable :Malik. Firoz.... ~.! Npon : Th tt n_ti ocal 8 thorities has been drawnto.the , ud~erts and or e S ent
~ o_ curable memb;r_. · . ·[ .
M~AMMfri _ GHAU~~;,:L A~s LI BuNGAto , \ ·~AL ;R : .
• Lala~ Raj, (•)Will· ~ •... ~ __ o.inot.nable lr_ii-_'s :e~ .. :--·~. ,t __ L_: o al o ernment -ple~se. state-« _ _ • . I J . . 1
a) if it is. a .fuct that the Jal pur] "?irwala ·Co I- itte~ pass d , Resolution No. 40 on 16t Febt~ry 1921, sla · th t Diw
Muhammad Ghaus had n · con e1.1n with th a ~j.l gal w : . and. that~ the expenses it itnproveme t ad een -
. curred hr, the committee ; ~1 : , -1. - b) if it is a f~t that a Resolut on o he above s 'j · t J . ag ·
· put up on 29th July 192 , at, . 25 onjh end of t e· committee and 'that the 1 'ecreta17 who ha ut it u on t e ·
.. . , .. : agenda was dismissed ? .I t _ H~nourable Malik Firoz , Nioii: (a) Y s. c
: .: b)¥"es, but h~w~s· actually dismi sed ~ iconseque c I o lam s lso, . ; I I I
: · Bodh· fte:j? .will. the ·Hon ura*I~I Member l~a.s. s re t e other complaints m consequene of 'f h~ch he was d1f · ssed
Honourable· Malik Firoz • :rlloon : If h ho em e will ask a regular question, I sh II ia.~e enquirieJ .
.. , --1 I I : - I I
E~ OF LANDS BjY THE Cou~T)>F ARps!IN JA~A~ ui·· raw ·· I.ala Bocll,i Raj: WilMhe on.~ur~ble Minist for L
ov ent please· state if it 'is .a fact hat ~h~ people o~ al lpnr n T h il Shujabad, -Distriot Multan, epre~etjted · to th1 ~re iden o; , . .e.e to institut~ a civil suit for the ratcellation rf Ice tain
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*557. Lala Bodh Raj: (i) wm the Honourable Minister for Looal ;Self-Governmeut please st.ate---
(a) if it is a fact that Mr. .. Muharnmad Pawah, Draftsman, Small '.l:own Committee, Jalalpur Pirwal., in 'I'ahsil Shujabad, has been convicted of forgery ;
{b) if it is a fact that he has been detected by tl;i.e committee in _save· ral cases for preparing false plans ? -
. (ii) Ii replies to parts (a) and (b) above he in the affirmative, will the Honourable Minister please state if it is intend~d to retain him in the -0ffi~? .
-~
SURVEY MAP ()." ,LUALPUR PIRWALA.
_ ;1'556. · Lala Bodh Raj : Will tliti Honourable Minister for Local .-,:Self-Government please state if it is a fa~t that the Deputy Commissioner,
___ .,../ Multan, ordered the preparatio~ of the survey map of Jalalpur Pirwala .,,.-------- · in or about February 1926 and it has not becm done so far ? H so, why?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : A plan of the town was prepared through the District Engineer; but as it was found to be -ineorrect, steps have been taken to have it corrected.
SMALL 'I'owx CoMMITfl'EE, JALALPu\Prnw:aLA.
DISPUTE REGARDING CERTAIK VACANT SITES IN JALALPUit PIRWALA.
*555. Lala Bodh Raj : \Vill the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government please state if it is a fact that the local authorities, Multan, were approached by the people of Jalalpur Pirwala with a request that .the matter of dispute between thorn and the President of the Pirwala com mittee regarding the vacant sites under the authority of the committee be referred to the Government Advocate 01· the Legal Remembrancer for its final settlement ? If so, what action has been taken by the autho rities concerned ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : Yes ; but as after -enquiry it appeared that the interests neither of the small town committee nor of Government were at stake, the local authorities were of the opinion .that thc:re i·;,,·1 ~;::; :.::'<!essity to consult the Government Advocate or the Legal Remembrancer. I
_Jands made by the Court of Wards at his instance and to take other ne cessary steps to safeguard the interests of the committee, but he did not pay any attention to their request ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, ·Noon : No such representa-. tion was made to the President.
Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable 3:Ieniber please state if any such representation has ever been made to any authority ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : I am afraid I am .unable to give an answer to that question.
STARRED QUIIJSTXONS ,A.ND ANSWERS.
RENT ON ACCOUNT OF AHATAS IN JALALPUR PntWALA,
*561. Lala Bodh Raj : (a) Has the attention of the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government been drawn to resolution No. 11,. dated 26th II.larch 1\)11 of tho Jalalpur Pirwalr, committee in Tabsil Shujabr1d '?
(b) Will he please state if it is a.fact that the President of the Corn mittee realises rent on account of Ahatas Nos. 1 and 4 referred to in the said resolution ? Ii
M.R. FAzL+HusAIN, VrnE-PRESrnENT, JALALPUR PrnwALA COMMITTEE ..
*560. Lala Bodh Raj : \Vil! the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government please stale if Mr. Fazl-i-Husain, the Vice-President of the Jalalpur Pirwalu committee in Shujabad Tahsi1 encroached upon tho thoroughfare referred to in Iiesolution No, 1 of the committee, dated 16th July 1917 ? If so, wha.t ad ion has Imm taken or is being taken against the said Vice-President?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : The answer to the, first part of the question is in the negative, and the second part does not arise.
J.UALPUR PIRWALA COMMITTEE,
*559. Lala Bodh Raj : (a) HHs the attention of the Honourable Minister for Local SelfsGovernment been drawn to- resolution No. 1, dated 16th July 1917, 0£ the Jalalpur Pirwala committee in Tahsil Shujabad ?
(b) Will he please state if the rent deed of the site encroached upon and referred to in the said Resolution has been executed in favour of the President in his personal name and not. in favour of the committee?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan; Noon: (a} Government have now seen a copy o[ the resolution.
(11) Further enquiries are being made from the local officers and the· result will be communicated to the honourable member in due course.
STAFE' op THE ~'MALL Tows COMMITTEE, JALALPUR PmWALA.
~558. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable Minister for Local Self· Government please state if it is a fact that all the employees in the staff of the Small Town Committee of JalaIpur Pirwala in Tahsil Shujabad are Muhammadans and that five of them belong to one family of the place ? ~ The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: No.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon:. (i) (a) He was con· . vioted of forgery in 191 L
(i) (b) and (ii). Ae the report received from local officers was not sdffi- 0
ciently detailed to enable an answer to be given to part (i) (b) of the question, further enquiries are being made, the result of which will be communicated to the honourable member in due course.
(21sT N oVR; 1927 _ PUNJAB LEOIBLATJVE COUNCIL. 1092
CREATION OF OlUGINAL SI DE TO THE HIGH COURT AT LAHORE,
*565. Mr. Owen Roberts: Will the Honourable Finance Member be pleased to state whether Government has taken into consideration the ques tion of creating an original siae to the High Court at Lahore?
SPECIAL TRAINING IN MERCANTILE LAW AND PROCli.DURE TO CIVIL , JUDGES.
*564. Mr. Owen Roberts: Will the Honourable Member for Finance be pleased to state what steps, if any, have been taken to give effect to the recommendation of the Civil Justice Committee to give a special training in mercantile law and procedure to a certain proportion of Civil Judges?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : Government have included provision in the schedule of new expenditure of the Judieisl Department for 1928-29, for the -training of four Subordinate Judges for 1i months in commercial law under the guidance of commercial solicitors in Bombay, and propose to make similar provision for two officers in 19£1~ and thereafter according to actual requirements, subject to the condition that the scheme is re-examined after a. period of five years.
PROSPECTS FOR PU)l"JABI STUDENTS QUALIFYING AT THE INDIAN Sonoor, OF MINES, DHANABAD.
*563. Sardar Ujjal Singh: Will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased to state the prospects of Government service or otherwise in the Punjab for Punjabi students who qualify themselves in the Indian School of Minos. Dhanabad (Bihar and Oriasa}?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i .. Husain: This Government has at present no posts to offer, but.is unable to say what other avenues to employment may not be open to such students.
DussERAH LAND IN JALALPUR Praw ALA.
*512. Lala Boclh Raj: (i) Will the Honourable Minister for Looal Self-Government please state if it is a fact that a portion of Dussehra Ja;ntl that vests iu the Jalalpur Pirwala committee in Tahsil Shujabad as per report of Lala Hukam Chand, Settlement E. A. C., dated 28th December 1877, in case No. 3, instituted on 14th April 1877, by Diwan l\fahamm&<i Ghaus (grandfather of the present President), has been sold by the Court of Wards to one Mr. Abdul Sattar, Moharrar, Court of Wards ?
( ii) If reply to (i) be in the affirmative, will the Honourable llfinister please state what action he proposes to take to recover the said price of land?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (i) The land referred to adjoins and does not form part of the Dusehra ground. It was pur chased by the muharrir in an auction but the question of according sanction to the sale has been held in abeyance.
(ii) Does not arise.
The Honourable M..lik Fire& Khan, Noon: (s) Yes. (b) No Ahatas are referred to in the resolution.
1, Vol. :...-A., pages 30 70.
I Page 839, ame. a Page 1021, ante.
1094 OoUNOIL. ~2TsTINo ; ·. I
ontmorency: JNo. J
r the High Courts Act of 186 prdvided for the! itab hme t 1Y c a Pr of High Comte, w~ere the th:f e Ki!ng's Courts ardl t . e ~o pan s
urt .. f Appeal had b.een situated, tha Act preserved the 1e tm owe s o th e three Supreme Courts, but sue powers were not 1gi;oa ed i her o
b d which was created a.t that time nor ~o the High do$1; sub qua - I ore t d. All High Courts now, by virt e ofiSection 101 dHh Gov mne t o In · · Act, stand on the same statuto b~sis, but the teite s P ent f t e t Presidency Courts preserve t eir!' original" j~ns ietio
'. l ! I !
LOYMEN. T Oli' BHAI UTT.AM SING IN JH~ PUNJAB ~E1R TAB T. I · 1 : ·
• Sard!U'. Narain Singh: (a) _Wilt tl~e Chief Se~r~t.a y be_ ,leas d t sta e whether It IB a fact that the P ab Government 1:ja~ is ued tru - t ons o he heads of its departments or to he .c.l I) D. to deb4' ~11 hose erso s
Olll n ering the Government Service ho ~aye ever seryed t e S · oma · nrd a a Parbandhak Committee ? · ! ! 'I f ·
. : . l ( ) f the answer to (a) be in thene ative, ~ll he please s ate
a fact t at one Bhai Uttam Singh, B.A. who worked for ~oln tim S iro a · Gurdwara Parbandhak Com ttee las Secretary lo£! t e Si
· ona ociety.· and later on joined the un. J.·~b i Secretaria~ ~s a ele t Id y be office authorities that as the C. II D. had rep rt~d that · een the service of the S. G. P. C. s e time back, h lco Id 2. ow d to remain in Government servi e utjless he prod{lC~d a ee
om h Senior Superintendent of Polic , Lahore, or the ID~p ty mmi - s oner "tsar, to the effect that h was a desirable ica did te fo
ov ent service and should not be ebarred on account lof his avin s me time backthe S. G. P. C? i ' i j · . .
! I
! I e facts are nbt as stated. i
. HoNoUBY ~ .J.l.. 1 · I i • Dr. ShaiJ4l Muhammad . ' :: Will th.el #o o~a
e ember be plea,.·se. cl to say_ whet. er It! ha. s come tolt~? . otic over . ent that , Honorary Magistrate on I account of \h~1r ma
.P wer · the constituencies have often e erte4 undue influin1e ·
Honourable Sir Geoffrey Mdnhnorency ~ iY: s .. ent a 'e received a few complaints oft is nature and in <ions que
· -p eoa. ti IJ,aty measure took the action · dic~ted in the Jr~p es. C une questions Nos. 1081, 9992 and 128,i dated resp9*t1re y th
a.re 1 th J~y and 22nd July 1927, i I I .
»c :
" · G:modiu.Pllll: oF .. TB'.lil_ P~.r ... a~·; . -a_·;_· ~ ::--. '.',·.·::·:'-_,~·:,:.->··_)_~----.,··.'-~- · .". , -- __ '.;_-_<;·.··:;(_\~\>.-···~ ·~·-·· ,.-:'<.·">(·;. :- .
*569, · .. ·.···• .s~·i:aiz .Muhammad : . Wiffth~ :fl9nom:al>le · :Minister Jo,; ·Ei!ucati<>n]tindly sta.te ifit.fa a. ·fi;,ot that the Punjab Text Book Committee -got their.book·" G:eogiaphy,ofthe 'Pnnjab" revijed-~oine:y'~i's.- .. h~k but it was never' published ? · · · · ··
·1 .. ·- :.-- ;
. i:o :The S:onourable ··_.Mr._ ... Mano •.. Lal:.--The. Urdtt .edition of the • f':Geogt'!l,phy_ot.t~e Punjab'' -was neitlier r!3vise~lnor' published •. The.
Punjabiedition, of the book, however, was revised and- published. . . . - - - . :· .
(J)·-whetli~:-.th~. G~t;e,rturient..is goinifto.irefun4}a~>~.~Q9 pl~s lts.120 · to the tesid~¥'~s ;{' · ·····. · ·
(JJ)· whe.tner.it. 1~a/flli<ltthat·the Govep,unellt'.has ~~~4ttth~ poor 6£. theJqwn. with: th,i-punitlve poli~ te.x .~nd exep;i:pter:l ijo'\'ern-. ~ent pensioners, Governmenb ~t.npl9yees and .j>ther ' servants tmd even those persqna wh9: :~a;n _ ·tell afford . te> pay . the tax; ·· · ·. ··· · ·· - ··
. , ::. --·-. ·,,: -.::. _ _. ·. .-. -: ·--~z. _ .. _-. , _. . (h) wh~ther it is },' f~t · .that · while levyµig the .tax the Gover1lll1ep.t'
, ha..s not. taken. fato oonsideratiqn ·· the :tinan.ci~t position qf· eao.kman; '' ·- ' '' (j)··· how will the ta:it-'.betealised from those.who ·ca;nnot a.'~oidto'pay itJ .
The HoJ1ourableSitGeo~ey .- ,eMon~~r-eney;:=· ~· information ••ked for is not rell.'<l.ily.a.v:~ilable In the: ofliee j~a.,<ifbeirig 'obtai~ed •. ,A '1'~I>1Y will be_ ;given fo the hononra.ble member--as- soon as it is rea4y> ·
•pmunVE POLICE TAX.·IN KALA Klu!tAI ~ABSu,.·
·.· ... *&88. ·J.ala (:opal Das: Wijl the Honourable the Finance Member (be pleased to st11te : . •·. . . .
(a) whethf31' it'js J1 fact that. punitive1>olioff ;mts , p9~ted for three yeila's:,begimring fr<?m the year. 1922. in the town of E:ala.
, . Khatai, tahsil .: Shahdaia, Shei.l!h~pura Djstrict r . ·_;..·.---: . .. ---.. __ · 1_, ... :- . .-, .... • .:' ·, ..
(b) ·wh<tther:it is a fact that Rs, l,600ipei;year--was collected frprn the residen~t:t< of the. town as .: the oos,t : of,' building qµar~ers for the
. - .. polioe, i~e.,· Es, 4,800 in thr.0E3 Jea.?fl ; · ·· \ : ·,·•. . . . . . r· ·:.•·. _·,,,.:-' . . .·· : . .- :,
· (c) -wb.ether it is a, fact that for theµrsf.'t~a:· years,)lle.po~oe\~a.s .· residing· .. 4t privat~ houses of tl:\e)~d.erit~ of •.. the.· town.: free '{)f
\chaJ:'ge·i:nd in the third year a,' litµIdirig \was el'eoted. :for the. police; . . '
(d)~liethedt isi'faot that out of this~ of Rs. 4,SOOj,oril:f Rs~ 1,600, has been paid to the contractor· for the oonstru<ltion .·of a build ing :w.hich ,w~~ ~eteu iu_ tlie thir4·_yeai; ;: " ,
(e) ~'hethm: it iJ ,a;.)e.Jt :i4at. the '.mat~~aJ. 'rif th13 bilil'@lg '4iJ- ~eaii' . . sold only for '>Rs..- 120 by. the .Government. ;- · . · · ·
. ----- -- . -,,.,. -.-:. ,.-, ·-' .:
1095 STARRED QUESTIONS .A.ND ANSWERS.
fUBJ,10 PROSECUTORS. __
*575 •. Khan Muhammad Ahdwlah KhlPI : (a) Will tl:te Hono~a~l~· the Fina.nee Member please state what is the .maximum age up to which a man can, be allowed·to serve as public prosecntpr·? ' :
(b) Will he please lay- en the tablea statement shawing the foll~~g :.:..'...
('1,) names ~!public prosecutors in the.province; . : . . . . . ~ "
(i"') their; dat~ pfJ1,ppofutment; '-< . . . - (iii) their age .e.t th!3 date of appointment according to the entry· . in the Univer!3ity Jtegisters ? . · ·.··. .
The Bono-able.Sir-Geofh'ey d~ohtmorency: fa) The usual age of retirement is 5~but extensions are granted · when re public pros.oou~r .is efiicjent and it is considered ~~visable Jor any resson to, r.etruQ. ~' , ' ·
Puatio 'P.BosEouTo).'ls.
-, ,ic574. · . KJian Muhammad. Abdullah Khan : ·_ Will -the.Hononrable. the· Finance Member kindly- ·stiw, if- there are any_ ~mong the,p~blic prosecutors- in the p:royince who a.re peit4e:,; Barristers nor Bachelors-in~~aw _? .
The. ~ona~abl, Sir Gep~ey deMonW(orency_: Yes-two. They e.re licentiates m L!J,w~ . . .
~-
I
EnuoA.TIONAL QUALIFIOATIONS 'Fo-B. Pu:eLIO PROSEOUT()RS.
*573~ Khan Muh~rnrnad Abdullah ~ : Will the - Honourable· the Finance Membe.r Jmidly sta.tewha-t is the minimum ea.uea.tfonal q~li;,_ fioa~ions for appo~tm-e:µ.f. .as pi:!bl.ic prosecutorin the. funja.b?
·... . . . 1· The Honourabe Sir Geo&rey .. deMon.tmore~cy : · The degi:ee . of:
B.A., LL.B.
(c) There are some Muhammadan. advocates at present on the list of approved candidates £.or districts- in the Multan ~Division.
(c) .whether it is~- fact tha-iMusalman advocates 13aitable for appoint . · ment · t.1,$ public pr.oseoutors a:i;e. !!iV!J,ilable in .: eyery distri9f in.
the Division ? ·
·· -The--Honoarable Sir~ey -d~ontmoreney-:- W-Yes. . . .
. . (g). :-0:~Y Q11; t,p:i;~~t~tion on .th~. s:nbj(;)Ot .. ~ :;ooeiy~, !-11 January 1924 froxn the D1Stnet Muslim Assoc1a.t1on, Jampur, in the d1Stnct _of Dem. GD_ hazi.G_I{hh··· --~~Kh-in ,~l!ll_~tjo_r.i ~ji~:!!ie_. ~~I>~i_rl~~~:!f?l~--~~~~~-Y!~~~~?-~~ era. .· azi an.
' '
1091' STARRED QtrESTIONS AND ·ANSDRS.
·\ L- : . •I .•
l!UNJAB. LEGISLAT ..... \ j~· .:. . ; .. ·:
.i I·
... !
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I.
p¥i.1~.T /Jvlti~tOIPAL CQMMIXTEFJ!-
., ~~?~!IIQii~Siii· pei~AA(. ,co$plairr~d ·~gainst ~na· ·"'P~t:,~~:ti~'tf/"'as · t.aken: by- - t};t~ lJ~p~ty :Coznmissioner, •Jha11g~- agair,l~~;~Q!i· of :them; '
:q>)-:tfl~t!i~E~tlf~~~~~µ,t- tlie,-~~i!f PtU ~?;~uni~: .w~re ~hooked ,- .. · PY' t:he e.-11dit9~ lllcNovem..b~,: ~ii :Oecember.~ia.st a.nd_ .tha.t ~'.r tl(e, .. aµdit.ora> d'et.e~itea ~d. poin.~_out seyerar cases. of mis-
(d)_, ~Mtlle1\jtJs. a, f.~()t/that··_.the- Deputy;··· _--Qpajitji~~onet _. llim.self was •·· · · · ·-. p;~t -~t tµe foee~g. and diota.ted _how- ~.1'b-.i~el,li.shou.ld .be
,,,o~ed Qf-,:ferii~rkfug a.l tunes.· tfo~t;t11~lf4,i~!'l>r~~~l),pio11 .;:,:J):f ,funds,are ordinary and do not r~e· a.n;x::t1~?u~:a.ction.;: ,!JU:fm~~;ther; the: action: ol th~ D~~¥~f l:S?~~~l~.~ori~~ ·,-,'f.rl~.
--(~} whetlf~~-it 1s~$1;ctJhat the Seoretflr,; oftli~ -'9biqi6t JKuiii&ip~lity :i, --- · · · · iff~till cOif: Pf()b~~ion · and ·WS·p,E»,'i9..~: of pxc>"ba.1.ion 1s being
;~tendeti- ~::Spite._ o( his wor.~{lieµi"g rep~tedly found . un ·;~tisffletory: &D:d lll~fil¢ent)iU4\it:t. spit-~:, of '~11. tli& objections.
"against his wt>rkin•' th~ ~ridit note:-r . .. ' " i(f), :wp:~tlw~-jt,ij'¥ f¥t thwt __ the members of :the •. CJµrtiot Mumcipa.l
· · · Ool?l!Qi~~P":tl;!£l:xnsely~ .~.ve _mad.e represe11ta.tiQ:n t9 the Deput.11
.'J -·' _.;.•'
~UI,3~~0_. ;PROSEcuro~. :
. .. *51,&.< .Khan M'uhtin,rnacl .At,duJlah Kha'n''f°:~(41 -Will the .Honourable~ Fitumce ¥e~~~-ltil!illy"_state };ro~iniuty d,istriot~~1;~tliereinitµe·pi:ovin-0e it)._
._wbich nosapllr,~~;publiq pl'.o~e~u~QJ.<:isappqmtecJ:;2·· ,: -_ _- .. - __ - __ . .. • '~~~,~~~E;=P·l:::: ... 0natnely; Rohtak~c'M1+-zaf10rrgt$rb: J1J!1,d S,m.Ja... _ _ -: •. _, .- _ .;
;(bj,- A prO.J!Oa&l ~or ~h,~,~ppoirrtm~t of a -s~p~~~~\publio .. :proseoutor f~r- . Roh:tal(is $dereomlideration. --_, ;, ,,t·._ ' <·
. _ There is p.o record with ··:Gqv~rnment ofage ~t · ~t'ej)f~first appo~ti , m~it JtCcording to University l?,egisters. . ' - :· - ..
,. ' ·, . .·. •, :· ,, : . '•
109~- .STARRED QUESTIONS ANi> ANS'Wiil:RS. - . ·,··. . ' . I-'
-e
PUNJAB LEGISLAT .-
i i I
E 0:0lJ:NOIL, ! i i i I I
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L.._.
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I
(b) If the answer to (a) above be in the a.ffinnative, will the Honour able Minister please state the reply given by the district board to these objections ?
(c) Has the Government itself considered these objections? If so, what conclusion it has come to? If not, is it prepared to consider these .objeetions now?
The Honoqr,-ble Mr. Manohar Lal: (i) (a) Yes. (b) Yes,
OoMPULSORY PRIMARY EDUCATION IN ZAIL SARIII.
~579. Sardar Partap Singh: (i) Will the Honourable the . ::Miqjster Ior Education kindly state if it is a fact-
(a) that compulsory primary education has been introduced in Y,ail 'Sarih, district Jullundur ; . '
(Q}· that the residents of the said zail made a representation em bodying certain objections to its, introduction within the appointed time;
(c) that on the agenda distributed among the members of the district board called for the purpose of considering the a hove men tioned representation, the President made a note in the fol lowing or some similar words that ' in the opinion of the Chair man these objections were not weighty ';
@ that .no reply has been vouchsafed to the representation of the residents of Zail Sarih ?
(ii) {a) Is it a fact that besides other objections the representation .also contained the following->- ·
(1) " that the curricula of studios proposed for the boys is useless for the rural population in general and agriculturists in parti cular and under the circumstances it tends to add to the daily increasing unemployment ";
(2) "that the proposed compulsory education should be imparted through the medium of the language used by the shopkeepers in their shops, by the labourers during their daily toil and by the peasants on their fields, irrespective of the fact whether Gurmukhi, Dev Nagri, Urdu, or Roman characters are used for instruction " ;
(3) "that so long as the hours of attendance, the medium of in· struction and the books to be taught are not finally settled to the satisfaction of the residents of the said · zail, com pulsory primary education, which increases unemployment, which offers no solution for the problem of earning livelihood and which creates a dislike for manual labour, should not be introduced at all ">?
The Honourable MaJi}j: Firoz Khan, Noon : (a) Y LiS.
(b) to (j) No.
1101 STA~Rl!lD QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
(i.) (a) two patrol constables entrained at Panipat ;
(b) it was the failure to reserve accommodation on this .ocoasion . _·,a: through from the starting station for these two constables, which h¥ ., .. given rise td this question. _ -
(ii) A compartment in carriage No. 3715 was vacated to accommodate this patrol a,t Panipat,
(iii) '.t'lie report made is incorrect; the comportment vacated wf:IS~tiC· cupied by -4 or 5 male passengers. · ·
(iv) Permanent instructions regarding the reservation of compart ment for police patrols came into force from 8th August 1927 ..
:f~CONVJilNlEKCfl TO CERTAIN RAIL,\'AY PASSENGERS A'l' PANIPAT.
*580. Rai Sahib Lala Ganga Ram: (i) Will tho Honourable the- Revenue Member please sbi,te -- -
(a.) whether any troop constn bles entrained 2f3-Up at Panipa t on 4th July 1927, and, if so, whs t was their strength;
(u) whether any compartment was· reserved Ior them ; if so, front which station ?
(ii) If the reply to parts (a) and (b) is in the nega,t.ive, is Government awuro that compartment No. 3715, which was not already reserved was ordered in writing by the guard in charge of tlie train in question to be vacated for a rnihrn,y police constable who was on his way from Delhi to Ambala ?
(iii) Is the Government also aware thut the passengers of this compsrt ment included a number of ladies, one of whom was pregnant and another ·was invalid, that tho adjacent compartment was practically vacant being occupied by only four male paasengers, and that. the train was started when the fatly and child pttssengers had not yet safely entrained, all of which facts were brought to the notice o-f the said guard ?
(iv) If the reply to parts (iii) and (iv) is in the affirmativs, what action does Government. propose to take in the matter?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fezl-i-Husain r Tho information received from the North-Wes tern Hailwny is to the effect that - .,.
(i'i) (n) (1), (2) and (3) In a mn tter of a. proposal aocoptod by an almost, unaninmous resolution of a district board and forwarded by Deputy Com missioner through Commissioner, the Ministry of Education cannot interfere . ...,. .,.. on the bnsis of objections raised by what must obviously be a very small. minority.
(b). Please refer to answer to (i) (c) above. (\1 (c) Please refer to· answer to (ii) (a.) above.
[Honeura ble l\fr. Manohar Lal.] (o) & (1.Z) These are matters of the in term r economy of the district
board with which the Ministry is not ooncerued nor is it awars o:f ahy such fact, ·o
[21 ST N OVR. .r 92 7 z: PUNJAB LEOiSLATIVE COUNOIL. - 1102
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• 1vo1. vn, papa 43-". • VoL IX·B., page 107&
p ASTURE LAND.
•se.t. Rai Sahib Lala Ganga Ram: Will the Honourable Member ~fOr Revenue be pleased to eta te - .
(a) the area of pasture land in the province available for grazing of cattle ; _ .
. (b) whether the Government consider such land to be adequate for the cattle of the province ?
The Hc,noarable Mian '"Sir Fazl-i·H1nain: '.L'ae honourable • ~.mernber is referred to the answer given to Council 3 questloa ~-J. 3H7-C. -on 29th June 1926.
*582. Rai Sahib L11la Ganga Ram : Will the Honourable Minis\elt ;.,for Agriculture be pleased to state-
(a) whether the Government hsvo prepared any kind· ol. statistiot to ascertain the production of milk ha this province and tbe qu<\ntity of milk an individual is supposed to get as his share;:
.(b) "hether the Government have considered whether the m.ill: supply is sufficient to meet the requirements of the people of this province ;
· (c) whether the Government has fa ken or proposes to take steps for increasing the supply of milk in this province?
The Ho11ourahle Sardar Jo1e11:lra Sinlli: J::u h nnt,~h!e msmbar .:isreferredtotheanswergiv:ntoOon-;il 1q11HtioJ No.5)9<n 4th August 1924.
INFANTILE MORTALITY.
*583. Rai Sahib Lala Gauga Ram: Will the Honourable Minister 'Jfor Local Self-Government please state-
(a) if the Government are aware that the percentage ·of infantile mortality in this province is very heavy ;
(b) whether it is not due to the great inadequacy of milk? The Honourable M11lik Firoz Klaan, Noon : 'Uhe honourable mem •
t:ber is reterred to the answer giv:en to "que~tio:i N~. 32_:t:7-B., ask_e::l by Dr. -Gokul Chand N arang last year 10 the Punjab Legislative Council. ·
MILK SUPPLY,
8LAUGHTEIR OJ'. Bovm'j OATTLB,
.. -111~ Rai · Sallih ·,Lala. t.qa Rm: Will the Honourable . ~ber for Finance kindly lay on the table a statement . saow
iinrt.tb~ number a.ryd aga ot differ9:1t kinds of bovine cattle sfaughteted -during inch of the last three ye irs in the jurisdiction of' municip~liti~, cantonments and, if posaible, in rural areas for local consumption?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deM011tmorency : It is regretted ,that the information asked for is not available.
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§.- · • . '((--~:: ·,: \ ~·---- ~~ ,'
I Vo1.1x.r.., pa.:es l073-7t. •• ~ol. IX-B,, ~~·IQ'U ...... • V!'JI. 1x:.A;,. pa._ ISW.000;
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. c . • (b) Does this Government also propose to stop the slaughter of the . · above clcsscs of animals ? If not, why not ? ·
'nie llonohr•lil~·Sardat Jc,k~'hdra Siii~h: '(a) Yes. , i , . (~). ;rhe l??no~ra.?le ~p..m~er is r_~fep;-e~ to. fhe answer given to part (g),. l'Jf C'ou:ncil r.queshon N'o~ 2791 on 11th .Mllrch ~926. ... ... _ , ...
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PROHIBITION' OF SLAt:'GHTER OF CERTAIN Kl~DS OF ANI.MALS.
~- Rai Sahib Lala Ganga .Ram: (d) '\Vill the Honourable' lfinister for Agriculture be pleased to state whether the Government is aware that the Government of Central Provinces and Berar by its notifi oation No. 1289c955~XIII, date4; the. 21st May 19'22, prohibited the alsugh ter of the following classes of animals :-
( i) Any a.n1ma.l, either pregnint or in milk.
(ii) All cows. (iii) An animal other than sheep or goat which is of or under the age·
. oi 9 yea.rs ? · ·~ .·
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GRAZING COMMON, ;:.J. A586. Rai Sahib Lala Ganga Ram : (a) Will the Honoura b1e Member -
_ . for Revenue be pleased to state whether the Government are aware that cultivators are obliged to sell off their prime cattle to butchers as the owners, esnnot bear their expense till next calving in the absence of grazing lands. to- feed their cattlo ?
(b) I£ so, do the Government propose setting apart ten acres out or ,ev.ery hundred acres of cultivated land as grazing common in well-dis tributed centres out of land classed as "culturable waste ' and 'current. fallo~~ '?
The Honourable Mian Sir .Fazl-i-Husain : The honourable member - is referred to the answer given to Council. 2que.stion No. 8247-E on 29th. June 1926:
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;.~,,<i~~tw:> . . . .. '. ~AND;·;~1'D}lffOUGH ~-ATTt,E.' .. _ . ~ . .,, .•SSS.,, Rai Sahib Lala..Ganra Ram:. Will the Honourable Minister for Af¢culture be pleased to state whether the Government have prepared any .kind ·of statistics to show the area of land that a pair M plough ce.tlle. has to till on an average every season in the province?
The :ifonoural,le Sardar Jogendra Si~gb : The honourable member · is referred to the answer given to Council 1question No. 3247-D on tbe same subject on the 29th June 1926.
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J:rmKED BEEJt,
. · . *589. R~ Sahib.· J,.al~ Ganga R,lll : Will the Honoura ble )finistex,· for Agriculture'· be .. · pleased to stat&-·- .
(a) the quantity and value of 'jerked ' beef prepared in this pro virice for .sxport to Burma and other countries ;
· .. (b) the number of cattle annually 'slaughtered in order to carry on this , trade ; ·
·.··.·. ,{c;) whether the Government contemplate stopping slaughter of cattle for this purpose? If so, what measures they are pre pared to adopt.for the same?
' l'he HonQ~r~bie . Sardar Jogendra Singh : 1fhe honourable mem ber is referred to the answer given to Council 3quostion No. 514 on 25th.
·October. J 924.
r. 1
CATTLE-BREEDING.
. • .. ·R•i S4hib:i..Ja Ga11ga Ram: WilHhe Honourable Minister · for. Agrtculture be plea~oo. to state-
, :(d), the steps the Government are taking for improving cattle- breeding in the province ;
{b.) how many Government breeding centres and breeding bulls · there are in this province ; · (c) whether they are capable of producing any appreciable improve- ·
· · ment in the stock Qf cattle of this province ; (d) whether the Government are prepared to take early steps for the,
· improvement . of breeds of cattle as suggested by the Board . of Agriculture ? .
· ;J\\e.flottourctble ~ar4,r jogendra Siogh: 'I'he honourable m~mbar is referred.: to the answer given ·to part (h) of Council I question No. 2797' on Llth March 1926.
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110~ ·. BTARIUJD• QU$STIONS AND ANSWERS.
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0RAUDHR{ GYAN SINGH, lNBPEOTOR OF SClIOOLs; LAHORE D1vx~ION.
*592. Shaikh Faiz Mubarmnad: (i) Will the Honourable Minister for :Education kindly state-
(a) the circumstances which justified the appointment of Ohaudhri ·· Gyan Singh as Inspector of Schools in the Lahore division;
(b) the academic qualifications of Chaudhri Gyan Singh ; (c) Chaudhri Gyan Singh's number in the seniority list of the officeri
of the Provincial Educational service; ·
(d} .the number of Deputy Inspectors .snd District Inapeetors of schools senior to Ohsudhri Gya.n Singh ;
(e) whether the new deputy of Ohaudhri Gya,n. Singh is senior to Chaudhri Gyan Singh in the Provincial Educational sernce li1t f
(ii) Wm the Honourable. Minister be pl'ea1ed to state the ground1 -on ,rhicb. he has allowed ·the supersessian of a numbet'of etpeneiioed aill" ,ellioienl JD4ID by ,he promotion al Chtlµd~rj:~pn, Sin~? · ·
e-' i·..;~~; tr.
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KHAN BA1IADUR SHAIKH NuR ELAHI, D1v1s10NAL lNBPEOTOR,
"'591. Shaikh Faiz Muhammad: Will the Honourable the Minister for Education kindly state-
(a) if he has read the leading article in the ' Inqatab ' newspaper of Lahore, dated the 5th October 1927, and a letter. heeded 'Hindu Raj in Lahore division,' published in the Muslim Outlook of the 13th October, in regard to the recent changes in the Inspectorate of the Lahore division;
(b) the circumstances which led to the transfer of Khan Bahadur Shaikh Nur Elahi from the Divisional Inspeotorship of Lahore to the post of Inspector of Training institutions;
(c) whether it is a fact that Khan Bshadur Shaikh Nur Elahi did not apply or ask for this transfer ;
{d) whether the transfer was made by the Honourable Minister on his own initiative or on the recommendation of the Director of Public Instruction ;
(e) how long it is proposed to keep Khan Bahadur Shaikh Nur Elahi out of the post of Divisional Inspector?
The Honourable Mr~ Manohar Lal: (a) Yes. (b) Khan Bahadur Shaikh Nur Elahi was transferred to the post of
Inspector of Training Institutions in the ordinary course, to fill a vacancy caused by the officiating appointment of Mr. R. Sanderson to the post of Director of Public Instruction, Punjab.
(e), (d) & (e). 'Ilhe honourable member must be aware that it is not ,the practice of Government to answer questions of this nature.
(21sir Novn. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE. OOUNCIL; 1106
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u REPORTER ON BOOKS AND • PROFESSOR OF ZOOLOGY •
IN T.aE GovERN}rnNT CoLLF.GE, LAHORE, •
*594. Shaikh Faiz Muhammad: Will the Honourable Minister for- Education kindly state- ·
(a) if he has noticed a short note published in the 'Inqilab' news· · paper of the 10th _October 1927, relating to the filling of the posts of ' Reporter on Books ' and ' Professor of Zoology 11-
in the Government College, Lahore; (b) the true position with regard to these posts?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Yes. (b) (1) In the leave arrangements of Mr. Matthai, Mr. Anand Kuma
has been appointed as officiating Professor of Zoology, Government College, Lahore, on Rs. 800 per mensem, for the period from the 26th September, 1927, to the 30th June, 1928. His pay as Reader, Punjab University, was Rs. 750 per mensem. · •
2. Mr. Rang Behari Lal is officiating as ReJ:?orter on Books.
•Page 1190 i11/m.
PosTtNG os INSPECTORS AND DEPUTY INSPECTORS OF Soaoors ON COMMUNAL BASIS.
*593. Shaikh Faiz Muhammad : Will the Honourable Minister fo:r-· Education kindly state---
(a) if it has been the practice in. the past years to have a Muslim" · Deputy under a non-Muslim Inspector and a non-Muslim
Deputy under a Muslim Inspector of schools; (b) whether it is a fact that this principle is still in operation in the
Ambsla, Rawalpindi and Multan divisions; (c) the circumstances and reasons which have led to a departure·
being made from this recognised practice in the case of Lahore· division;
(d) whether the Honourable Minister is prepared to reconsider this question and put a Muslim Inspector or Deputy Inspector· in the Lahore division ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) No, particularly in tbe case of officiating appointments.
(b), (c) & (d) do not arise.
•.·~ I . . ! ,~.;{filj,:llaaeiirahle Mr e- Malltlhar ··,Lal: (i} (a), (b) & (ii).· !l!ba.
. ~OD.01,ll'B ble member is referred to the answer to Council lquestion No. 681. (c) IJfue · honourable member is referred to the Punjab Civil List d'
October 1927, page 195. (d) 'J.!he number is 9. Of these one is officiating as Inspector, Multan,
Division, another is serving in Baluchistan and the 3rd is. Reporter on Boe>ki,: here.
(e) Yes.
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tVoloroe VIII B, pages ll67,118l, ,and page CXLI of Appondi:c: VIII. •Pagee 970-72 ante. ·
, s.~~Mfll~A._~o~· 01 . fiue~1~,.11ift y,dw)uJlltTi!j~~1n:,na ~O.Ll/l'GEs. ~{-4ai.: ,SuilEh Paiz,·"'-•••• : Will the Honour&'bl& M.inist~ rer ~ducatiful, kindly stat&=- ' ·
(a) if his attention has been drawn to the leading, attieles in the 'Inqilab' newspaper, darted the 7tli. October, 19~7. in regard to the alleged pro-Hindu policy of the Ministry Qf Ed]W~tjon !
(b) whether the facts and figures quoted in the articles are >c~rr~ft,;. (c) the true position 'with regard to the representation of Muslims ·
in the various Intermediate colleges ; ((l) the reasons which justified the promotion of some Junior Hindus
to the higher grades in preference to the Muslims senior to them?
- ,_ . The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) I have seen the copy of the lnqilcib' since the honourable member has sent in his question.
(b) No. (c) The honourable member is referred to the answer given to Council
~1:que:stions Nos. 1961-1975. (d) It is not correct to say that any junior Hindus have been thus
sJ)l'.O.W.Oted. The' lnqilab 'refers to certain cases. The facts are:-
(1) Mr. Daulat Ram Bhatia.-Th.e honourable member is referred to the answer given to Council 2question No. 417, but I may state for the honourable member's information that Mr. Bhatia was a distinguished :M. Sc. in Zoology of the Punjab University, and recently returned with a Doctorate in Zoology for research work in the University of Cambridge, and has a large number of published papen. to his credit.
(2) Mr. Gomti Parshad.-The honourable member is referred to the answer given to Council 2question No. 417.
(8) Lale: Indar Bhan.-No such person has been promoted. {4) Lala Bhagwan Das Chhabra.-)£. Sc. 1st class in Physics with
teaching experience of over 10 years in a Degree College. He has been appointed to officiate in a temporary vacancy in the Provincial Educational Service.
{6) Lola Raja Ram, Sekhri.-M. A. in Mathematics with teaching experience was appointed at the time of the establishment of new Intermediate Colleges in the lowest grade of Rs. 140- 190 in the Subordinate Educational Service in which Lecturers are ordinarily appointed.
(6) Dr . .Vishwa Nath, M. s«, Zoology (Punjab), Ph.D., Zoology for research work at Cambridge, has published more 1t~ a. dozen papers in England mclud ing some in Proceedings qf the Royal Society, and his work in Cytology is regarded as .of the highest order by Professors at Cambridge and other plsees. He'was for some time Research Professor of Biology and was
MOTOR PARES BETWEEN ZAFARWAL A.ND NAROWAL.
"'598. Khan Muhammad Abdullah Khan: Will the Honourable .Member for Revenue be pleased to state -
(a) whether it is a fact that the fares for lorries and motors plying for hire between Zafa.rwal and Narowal in the Sialkot ~ot, a. distance of only 17 miles, vary from' annas four to rupees , two per head; ·: · · .,_
J..b) the reason for such an extraordinary variation in the rate~ olhire· _
•
SMALL ~OWN COMMITTEE, 7,AFAB.WAL.
"'597, Khan Muhammad A,.bdullah. Khan : (i) Will the Honourable ~ster for 'Local Self-Government please state_:_
(a) whether it is a fact that in the recent elections for the ~ Town Committee at Zafarwal'in the Sialkot district(held/iil May 192t three seA.ts have gone to Hindus and two to M®.atn· madsns ;
{b) whether in this election Muhammadans have been duly re,.;. presented according to their population?
{ii) If the answer to part (a) above be in the affirmative and to (b) in the negative, will Government consider the advisability · of so arranging the Hindu and Muhammadan wards in that town as to ensure proportionate representation of Hindus and Muhammadans in future ? · ' '-' · : ·
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (i) (a) Yes. ,(b) Yes. • ·(ii) Does not arise.
REMISSI_O?i OF SCHOOL FEES •
. *596. S.baikh Faiz ~uha~1'1ad : WilJ. the Honourable the Minister .for Educatioil"kihaly state..:- I •• , • . .
· (a}' if he has read a letter headed ' Ministry of Education ' uf the · ' Muslim 011,tlook, dated the 14th October 1927; ·, (b) the orders 'which have been passed by the Honourable Minister· · · · in regard to the demand for the total remission o.f fee I.for th'i,-
sons of poor agriculturists in general and the Biloolf-~ of the criminal tribes in particular ?
'The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Yes. (b) The matter is under consideration.
Principal of the Mohindra. College, Patiala at the time ot his appointment in Govelj?,i;n~nv Coll,~(). :ge ~,~ 4~ ~P: pointed Professor of Zoologj ·1ri tn~1 vacan,cf ·oa~lf 15)" Prof$sat:>r· Ma.tthai's. leave/ '. . . .· · .. -,
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"801, Khan Muhammad Abdullah Khan: Will the Honourable the· Revenue Member be pleased to state whether the information premised in answer to part (b) of lqueation No. 3632 asked on 23rd October 1926, is, now ready? If so, will he please lay it on the table?
RAILWAY FROM NAROWAL TO ZAFARW.A.L.
*6CO. Khan MubamD1ad Abdullah Khan: With reference. to the, . answer to part (i1:) of starred 1question No. 272, asked on 18th July last will the. Honourable Revenue Memrer kindly state when the result of the investigation of a possible railway oxtensicn to Zafarwal will be- bown? •
· The Hc11cunlile Mian Sir FnJ~i-H'uurn: 'I'Le prcsj ects of the proposed broad gauge extension from Kila Fobha Singh to Zafarwal were. found to be so poor that the Agent, North-Western Railway, has been asked to advise on the prospects of a narrow gauge tramway.
RAILWAY EXTENSION '1'0 ZAFARWAL.
NOMINATIONS TO SMALL TOWN COMMITTEES.
*599. Khan Muhammad Abdullah Khan: Will the Honourable- Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to. state whether there are any rules or orders framed under the Small Towns Act autho rizing the Extra Assistant Ccromissioners or Tahsildarn in charge of the · ~11 Town Committees and the Deputy Ccmmissioners of the districts . to submit to the Cc mmissioners recc mmendations for nomination of' members to the Small Town Committees in the Punjab? H so, will he· 'iindly lay :i. copy cf such rules 'Or orders on the table?
• The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, "Noon : N o such rules or orders . are in existence, but it is and has always been the practice for Deputy Com· missioners to submit recommendations in respect of the appointment of members of local bodies. '
fI{bati Muhammad Abdullah KhaXl.J. (c) whether the lorries and motors plying forhire between the two
above mentioned places are overloaded by the owners and:! there is no one there to check or control this irregule.rity ;; ~ 1 ~ .. ,c:·--...
"1) whether Government proposes to issue necessary instmctiona to t~e civil or police authorities to cheek this irregularity 'l
_. _ The Honourable Mian Sir FazU .. Husain: I regret that the answer· to the honourable member's question is not yet ready. It will, however;
· be communicated to him as soon as it is ready. An enquiry on the subject ql the hononrable member's question has been addressed to the Deputy, Commissioner of Siallwt. but he has not as yet been able to submit a report.
·· 11JNJ.Aii 'iteniIA'l'lVE cotrncn... [21sT NoV11. 1927"'..; JUO
A'l.'TENDANCE OF CLERKS ON llOLlDAYS,
*604. Khan Muhammad Abdullah Khan : (a) Will the Chief S~· ta.ry please state whether it is a. fact that individual clerks in certain offie~. in and under the Punjab Civil Secretariat are put. on duty on holidays notified~ for ~~rvance in public offices '} ·
19 Total
(b) Present strength of the clerical staff of the English office of the Deputy Commissioner, Amritsar, is as under:-
Muhammadans 6 Others 13
32 4 Total
2
For Junior grade. 12
7 13
Muha.mmadans Sikh Hindus
CLERICAL STAf'F, DEPUTY CoMMISBrONER 's 0F'FICE, AMRITSAI!,
*603. Khan Muhammad Abdullah Khan: Will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state-
(a) the present number of candidates community-wise in the Deputy· Comrr.issionsr's office, Amritsar ; . _ .. ·-··"
(b) the present strength of the clerical staff of the English offio• of the Deputy Commissioner, Amritsar, and the number of' Muhammadans on the staff? ·
The Honourable Mian Sir Fa.zl-i-Husain : (a) The present number of candidates community-wise in the Deputy Commissioner's'office, Amritsar~ .. is as detailed below :-
For Senior grade. 2
BuFFALO BuLLB; *602. Khan Muhammad Abdullah Khan: Will the Honourable
Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state whether any Smalt [1own Committees in the Sia1kot district have kept buffalo bulls? If the answer be in the negative, does Government propose to issue· instructions. to the Small Town Committees to keep buffalo bulls ?
The Honourable Malik F'aroz Khan, Noon: Government have no information and do not think it necessary to interfere in the exercise of the discretion of town committees in this matter. The committees themselves are the best judges of their needs and financial resources.
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl .. i .. Husain: The railway authorities iid take into account the points mentioned, and, in consultation Wlth the local civil authorities decided that a line from Kila Sohha Singh to Zaiarwai.. gave the Zafarwal area good communication with both to Narowal (th~ tahsil headquarters) and to Sialkot (the district headquarters) which a line to Narowal does not.
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STABBED QtJlllrt'tO~S AND . ANSWEBB. .. uo
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Names of_ persons I recommeudcd by Names of Rea.sons the Deputy Com- ,n cue
Name.s of Sma.11 missioners or persons of persona .... ~). Year, $,wnCom- Extr& Assil!tant approved not approved mittees, Commi1111ioners in of by the of by. tbe ·.
· charge of the Commie- Com.mis Small Town Com- sionen. sioners;
mittees .
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OFFICIAL ;MEMBERS OF SMALL 'I'owx CoMMJTTEES,
*~. ~an Muha~mad ~bdullah Khan : Will the Honourabla 1Pe Jl!finister for Local Self-Government kindly lay on the table a statement --Iii the following form showing the names of persons recommended by the Deputy Commissioners for official membership of the Small Town Commit teesin the Punjab since their constitution and approved of by the Commie sioners of the divisions-
SUPERINTENDENTS IN THE OFFICE OF THE PRIVATE SECRETARY TO Hrs EXCELLENCY THE GovERNOR.
*605. Khan Muhammad. Abdullah Khan: (a) Will the Chief Beeretary please state if it is a fact that the clerks employed in · the O.~C!=) of the Private Secretary to His Excellency the Governor, Punjab', J?frm p~rt of ths Civil Secretariat cadre of clerks 'I ·
(b) If so, will he be pleased to state the number of Superintendents appointed in the Private Secretary's office since 1921 and how many of them we~e Muhammadans 'l
Mr. H. W. Emerson : The answer to the first part of the honourable me~ber's question is in the affirmative.
Since 1921 three Superintendents have held this appointment, of whom .2 have been Hindus and one a Sikh.
lU2 _ . . ~~~~1B~-~~~~l~- 90P!!_q't,. _ [21sT NOVB. 19~7 .. ~, lfnha~d ~~~ulla;h liRa.14) . . .
~~t$2alio~6·;,!!J ~47~. PJ:~4~Af~i:e..N::!m~~; l~r~twi~v:z 'that the holidays notified -~o~ ptiW,ic offices shoulr.l be given to gU (Jq~rn;neM ~mt~ is riot strictly adhered to ? · · · · - -~- .. :.·Mr •. ·H. W. EmerSon: 'lJhe honourable member is referred, to .the -snswer given to his previous -queetion No. 3207, in June 1926, and to the -answer given to Council 2question No. 527 asked by }Iian Bsli Ram on the ~6th July 1921. _1:. ~-~ .... ' - . . . .
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ALLEhATIONS OF THE "ZAllUNPAR" AGAINST SWAMI DAYA N.u1.J> . SARASWATI, . . ,
*609. Chaudhri Ram Singh : Will the Honourable Member fo1t Finance please state-- - · ·
{a) if he is aware that the "Zamindar '' of Lahore in its issue, dated the 2nd October 1927, has published an article wrongly alleging t};tat Swami Daya Nand Saraijwati, the revered found· er of Arya Samaj, was in favour of sacrificing cows; ·
(b) whether the Government is aware of the fa.et l\h~t Hµl.d,us i~ the Arya. Samajists entertain great regard for the ,co~; · · .
(c) if the answer to the above be in the affirmative, does Gove,r.nmet\t propose to take legal action against the said newspaper'?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: The e.etu,1i.l -statement made in the article referred to was that in an edition of tlie Satyarth Parkash, dated 1875, it was urged that cow sacrifice is of advsntega
·to the world and should not be stopped. Buch a statement does not appear to Government to afford in _itseLf a~y te{\a90a.ble ground for prosecution •.
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ROYALTY FOR THE STONES COLLECTED FROM .THE SHAMILAT FQBJJJi:Jl. Q• KANGRA DISTRICT.
*608. Chaudhri Ram Singh: (a) Will the Honourable M~mber for Revenue please state whether it is a fact that the amount. realised tr,qm the Public Works Department as royalty for the stones c llected frg,µijiJle shamilat forests of the Kangra district has been entered f, r the la.st te. years as receipt under the head •Land Revenue'? .·
(b) If so, will the HonourableMember please sta;te whether Gove~~t intends to distribute the zamindars' share of this amount amongst ]ti&
· owners of the shamilat forests ? The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain r E1,,rniri0::; are beiri.g
mads, the result will be intimated to the honourable member in due course:· . - - .
FREE TRAVELLING 011' PoLICE OFFICIALS IN MOTOR LOJmnlS,; · --··
, . ,sei. Khan Muliammad Abdullah Khan : (a) Has it come to the --'!l,Otiee of the Honourable tha Fina.nee Member 'that police constables and officers when ~oing on official or. priva.t~ busines~ from one st~t~on to an
':Other make use of the motor lorries plymg for hire between various places in the Punjab without paying any fare, arid that if fare is demanded by th& owners of lorries the policemen threaten them?
(b) If so, does Gover.imsnt propose to issue nec~ssary instructions to the . ilf)lice 'authorities to instruct the police officers and men that they should .pay usual fa.res to the owners of motor lorries whenever they travel in lorries
- to go from one station to another whether on Government or private · business ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The an8"9r to the first part of the question is in the negative, but the Iespectoe
-· General of Police is issuing instruct-ions on the subject.
:, . ,-~-~ :;. 8~~~-~~~°.~t~T-1 ~~\?RS, . . •. , . r: ft61Jonoarahle Malik F"sroz · IGAan · Noon : Government a.re ·or
~,opinion thaf'.if'iS: iiot desirable'·~ ,-~ie''the" rlicommerida.tions of local ~ in JUChc~s. · · · · • ·' ·- · '· .. _, ~ ., ·
1Page l'2fl' a-iiie. •Pages l 130-11311,11,/f'a,
CORRUPTION.
•&U. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: (i) wm the Honourable the Finance· . Member be pleased to state~
(a) if it is a fact that Government has decided to take prompt action, against any officer who is charged with corruption and ma.I-· treatment by appointing a commission of enquiry ;
. (b) whether any instructions have been likewise issued to the heads. of departments ?
(ii) Will the Honourable the Finance Member he pleased to lay those· instructions on the table ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (i) (a) and (b), ~e;.h.onourr..ble member is referred to the answer given to Council. lquestion Ko. 378 ..
. "''···· ,(#}. ;No •.
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Co'Jt.MUNAL.Rl!IPBESBN~ATION IN THB POLICE PORCE. ' . .
•810. Chaudhri Ram Singh r With reference to the answer gi'1&n to; UDlta.rred 1question No. 279, on 21st July 1927, will the Honourable Membet
· for Finance please state-« (a) if it is a fact that the proportion -of Hindus and Sikhs in. all the
lower as well as the higher ranks o~ police service is very small; ·
(b) if it is also a. fact t.hat during Hindu-M~lim riots a.llegations. have been made that Muslim policemen have helped the Muslim rioters;
(c) if the answer to the above be in the affirmative, does Government. propose to increase the number of Hindus and Sikhs em ployed in the Police Department and also to post Hindus and'. Muslims in various thanas in such a way as to avoid the pre ponderance of any one community in any place and the conse quent countenancing of the actions of that community by the policemen?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency: (a)· The dis parity is not general. In the lower ranks of the force there is r, preponderat-.
cmgelement of Muhammcdans. In the higher renks the proportion of Hindus and Sikhs corresponds more closely with the proportion which these eommu nities bear to the total population.
(b) Such allegations were made but after investigation were found. · not to have been substantieted.
(c) The Police Department is at all times prepared to enlist a due proportion of Hindus ar-d Sikhs ii suitable cpplicents present themselves. At present they do not present themselves for enlistment in the lower ranks in any great numbers. Postings to police stations are invariably made in auch a way as to cause the most equitable division of numerical strength.
-among the various communities and this policy will not be altered.
[21 ST .}tov_f},19'J7'4} ' . ~ -_•
Qu·u.B DIN, HlUD 0oNSTABL1il OF PoLICB, LuDHIAN.A,.,
*615. Chauclhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honoarable the Finauee J&mber · be pleased to state-- .
(a) if it ii a fa~' ib&i Qutab Din, Head Const&ble of Poliee, LadliiG&, lllAde aom.• serioua allegations agaimt his oficen ill hii ca,· .. ·. flir.riel. .
LILAN BoMB CASE.
*613. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state whether in his judgment in Lilan bomb case :ihe learned Sessions Judge of Ludhiana made any remark against tbe .eonduct of any investigating officers ? ·
If so, whether Government took any action against the officer or offieera . -ocncemed ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency :, Yes. Departmentalaction was taken as j udioial proof was wanting.
ABOWAL EXCISE CASE,
*614. Cbaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable Minister fmi Agriau.Itare be pleased to state-
(a) whether it is a fact that the Sessions Judge, Ludhiana, in. his judgment in the Abowal excise case made certain remarks against an investigating officer ;
(b) whether it is a. fact that the learned Sessions Judge invited the attention of the Police Superintendent to his remsrks-; · ·
(e) if it is a fact that so far no step has been ta.ken ; (d) the cause of such delay and the names of those who are responsi
ble for the delay ? The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: The answer to this
.questioQ is not yet ready. It will he communicated to the honourable __
.member when ready.
£1G1HHSSION TO ENQUIRE· INTO COMPLAINTS AGAINST HEAD· l\lAi!TERB.
. . '*612. Chaadhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable Ministet, fo:r J.Ed11ea.tion be pleased to state- ·
(a) whether any commission consisting of retired provincial civil service officers has been appointed to inquire into complaints against certain headmasters ;
(b) the result of such enquiries ? (c) the number of such Head-masters against' whom complaints have
been received and whese oases have been enquired into by the Commission? ,
. The . Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) No. Certain retired -officers with judicial experience ,have, however, been employed from time. · to time to assist in the conduct of departmental enquiries into charges of misconduct against ~cials.
(b) and (c) Do not arise.
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ENQUIRY INTO Tlr-E CONDUCT OF PO!LlCE OFFICERS, LUDHIANA.
· '"117. Cha'udltti Afza:l Haq: Will the Honohrable the Fm.a.nee· Member be pleased to state whether the Government proposes to issue a
. ~nriqml as. to why in ~ite of the .demand .of a number -of responsible · citfaens o1 Ludhiana it has not so ,far appointed any commission to enquire into the conduct of Ludhiana police -officers ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey · ·deMontmereacy : Government . does not propose teissue.any such communique.
.r.. ~jiNQ~lRY IN'l'O THE coNDVCT OF Poi.1cE rotFiqERS, ;LTJDl(IA~~- . ..
~-~-),·, ~',~: -~I·. ~ Iio~w~le. ·~lie: l~~~ce ~ (t1) ~- the (,toverwnoot- is aw.re of the f&qt,ANLfor the la.ii .. ·foqr moiltld great agit;aiion i1 going Oil lll _ tbe ~ _ aad plat•:· -,
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ENQumY INTO ;l'HE CONDUCT OF Por.rcn OFFICERS, LuDIIIANA.
*616. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Finance· Yem.bier be pleased to state-
(a) if it is a fact that some prominent legal practitioners invited th& Government through Press to hold enquiry into the conduct of certain police officers of Ludhiana ;
(b) if it is a fact that Government have not so far instituted any enquiry;
(c) if he is aware of the general impression created in the mind of· the public that Government wishes to shield these efflcers ?
Tli.e Jlonou.rable Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency: (11) Yes. (b) Yes.
i(c) Ro.
. ~.
[Ch1111dhri Afzal Haql - . . . (1,) if it is a fact that the said Qutab Din had written in l.ris eas~
diaries that he is willing to prove the allegations if he is called upon to do so ; .
(c) if it is a fact that the said Head Constable was dismissed from the police force for insubordination without his being called upon to prove bis allegations ;
(d) if there bas been any departmental enquiry by officers other than · h..}' those against whom the allegations were made ?
· 1'he Honourable Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency : (a) It is a fact th&t the Rend Consta ble made unjustified remarks and ellegstions . agairrst his superiors in the case diaries of r. case he was investigating.
(b) Yes. •
(c) Yes, the sentence being reduced to one of reduction on appeal to the· Deputy Inspector-General of Police. .
_ .. filJ No, becr,use the allegatione were palpably untiue.'
(21sT NoVR. 19'J7-
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. CATTLE ·FAIRS. 358. Mr. E. Maya Das: (i).,, Will the Honourable Minister for-
Local Self-Government be pleased to lay on the tablt·, a statement.. showing- . .
(a) the number of cattle fairs held by the· various municipal, committees in the .province during the last financial year;. and . ·
(b) the income received from ecoh fair ? . _ . (ii) Did these 1nw1icip~; i committees .ipcur any :e~pf:.f diture on ·ibit,. improvement of. catt~e·breednrg or on fightmg cattle dts~ses, aiJart ftOihi. prizes given at fairs i'H so, to~}',·hs_t .:,:~.? / , . .· ·.
. .The .:HORourabte ,Malik 'Fit~ '. ... · ~- : .- .! stn.t't>ineutii vin g th~,. required infonnationris placedon'the'teble. . . ; . . · ·-: ··
·~ ·<: .'..·. ,· ..... ,·;·r·:~,;, ~~·. ,(;
UNSTARRED QUESllONS AND ANSW~,RS. _<;i . ... · ··~
·1
*619. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Finance, Member be pleased to state-
( a) if it is a fact that a deputation consisting of pleaders, trader," and municipal commissioners waited upon the Commissioner · of the division and c barged responsible .police officers of· Ludhiana with certain definite and sei:ious allegA.tions ;
(b) if it is a fact that another deputation of influential men of tll&. district again waited upon the Inspector-General ; of Police. very recently to request him to hold an open enquiry foto .. the allegations against Ludhiana police officers ;- . ·
(a) what action, if any, the Government has taken on the request· of the deputationists ? . '
The Honourable Sir . G~offi:.~ deMontmorency : (a) Such ~ deputation waited on the Oommissloner and jnade certain aUegot.ions,. which were found to be without Ioundatiou.
(b) No. . (c) Beyond enquiries'juade by local and inspecting officers Government
has taken no action.
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:(b) ~nether it is a fact that fortnightly meetings are held in Lud- l:iiana. attended by _thousands of citizens to urge on the Govern- . ment to hold an open enquiry; : .
(c) whether any action has been taken by the Government in ·thll. respect?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency : (a) Government . is awcre that such encgitction hes been engineered.
(b) Government is not aware of this. (c) Beyond enquiries made by local and inspecting officers no action.
bas be-en taken. . • · --- .. . ENQUIRY IN'l.'O THE CONDUCT OF POLICE OFFICER~, LUDHI.AN • .\.
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1lNSTABRBD QtnliTIONB · AND ANSWBRB, ·
VETERINARY 'COLLEGE, LAHORE.
'-'-362. Mr. E. Maya Das: W$ the Honourable Minister for Agn @ullure··be''pleased to lay a statement on the table showing->-
(a) the number of cases that were admitted for treatment during the last financial year, at the Veterinary College, Lahore, under the Act for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals;
(b) the cost of treatment of these animals; (•) the cost that was recovered from the owners and the cost tlra1-
-1ra1rnot oeen-feci-overea·11
WELLS IN Jt:"LLUNDUR DIS'TRICT AFFECTED BY WATER TABLE.
361. Mr. E.'Maya Das: (i) Will the Honourable Revlmue· lfem- lier be pleased to lay a statement on the table showing- .
(a) the number of wells in the Jullundur district affected by the fall in the water 'table ;
(b) the extent of the area affected ; (6) ilhe number of wells that have been so bored as to draw their·
supply from the lower water tsble ; _ (tt) what facilities have been placed in the way of well owners to
encourage them to get their wells bored so as to draw their water supply froni a lower water table ?
The Honourable Mian Sir fazl .. i-Husain: I regret that the answer ~o this question is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honourable lii~b&r ,rhen ready.
GRANTS TO DISTRIGT BOARDS.
r 360. Mr. E. Maya Das: Will the Honourable the Minister for Agri •. ~ture b_e p!ea.sed to state whether gr.ants to district board. Ii .given -by the· t'.:ommumcat10ns Board for construction of new roads are given so m.uoh for a road irrespective of the consideration whether the work is co~pleted ~ one year or spread over a number of years, or whether the grants ani pven year by year ? .
_ T.he Hono-.irab1e Sardar Jogendra Singh: As far-as possible" ye&r 'by year."
CENSUS OF PLOUGHS.
359. Mr. E. Maya Du: Will the Honourable Minister for Agri culture be pleased to state whether a census of ploughs has been taken ?· n so, will he be pleased to state the number of ploughs worked by anim els in each district ?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : A census • of ploughs is taken· quinquennially along with the census of cattle. For the latest published information the honourable member is referred to statement No, VII of the Season and Crop Report of the Punjab for the ye0-r 1925-26. ·
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:RuLas .UNDBR TB:B TRADE UNIONS AcT. 365. Mr.· M. ,A. .GI.am: With reference to my starred squestion.
No.119 put on 15th March 1927.and the answer thereto, will the Honourable. Member for Revenue be pleased to state-
(a)· whether the Government received any criticism or suggestiou on the proposed Punjab 'I'rsde Unions· Regulations .from the Punjab Labour .Board, Lahore,
(b) whether the criticism and suggestions made by the Punjab Labour Board, Lahore, were considered by. the Government ;
(c) whether the Director of Industries, Punjab, distributed the draft. Z~Olll3 ~g tlie ~SBOQ~on~ of wor)Qnen.,i~. t,Jle Punjab ; if rso, ia;m.ong , what . asaociations of workmen were tb&y-
. thus.4istrib~t,ed ? · The &•ownJ,.le,,l\Gan:,Sir F-,::l"'.,l{~·•\11: ,(ti) Yes .. (~) Yes. (p) A copy of the list of associations to whom the d);a.ft :regu1~ionB.
were circulated, is.laid en .the .table.
TllADE UNIONS.
3&4 •. Mr. M.A.· Ghani: Since the Indian Trade Unions Act has come into force, will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased to answer Council 1question No.117 put by me on .the 15th March 1927?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain : Necessary information is being collected and wiU be communicated to the honourable . member when ready.
0HRIS1'IAN REPRESENTATION ON MUNIOlPAL COMMITTEES,
363. Mr. E. Maya Das: Will the Honourable Minister for Local' Belf-Government be pleased to lay a statement on the table showing the: names of municipal committees where the Christian community is entitled to half a member or more according to the formula, population plu~ voting strength= nominated plus elected members.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khans Noon: The municipalities are Simla, Lahore and Sialkot.
I
I
The Honourable Sardu Jogendra .Siafrh:: (a) One ,.tho~:µd one.hundred and three (lases were .t:.dmi_tted for treatment during the last financial year at the Punjab Veterinary College Hospital, Lahore, under the,
· Act for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. (b) These animals are treated free rt the hospital, Government supply ..
ing medicines and medical attendance gratis. Stable expenses, gear and. attendance for ell the animals and food for unclaimed animals are supplied by the Society for Prevention-of Cruelty to Animals.
(c) Owners of these cases have to feed their own animals.
. .
UNIONS on AssocuTIONS o~ GoVERNMENT SERVANTS.
166. Mr. M. A. Ghani : Since the Indian Trade Unions Aot ha.a ,coine into force, will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased to 11iD&Wer Council •question No. 120 put by me on the 15th March 1927. .
The Honourable Mian Sir FazJ..i,.ffu1ain: (a) Yes. (b) Does not arise. {t) Government has no de.finite information on this point •
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,. ;- :.-
<·
1122 PUNJA~ LBG!SLATIVlil OOUNQIL, [2lsT NoVR. 1~37 • . -: ', . .
. '{Hon: Miao Sir Fazl-i-Huasin.]
(1) The Punjab Labour Board, Lahore, which represents (i) the Tonga Workers' Union, Lahore.
(ii) the Motor. Drivers' Union, -Lahore. (iii) The North-Western Railway Urion, Lahore. (A copy of the
regulations was supplied to this body direct as well.) (iv) The Sweepers' Union, Lahore. (v) The Postal Union, Lahore,
(1,i) The Punjab Patwaris' Union, Lahore. (2) Hosiery Association, Ludhiana. (3) Weavers' Association, Ludhiana. {4) Desi Vastar Panchayat, Ludhiana. ,(5) Textile Association, Ludhiecu. (6) Weavers' Association, Ropar.
. Besides · these asaociatior s, the following trade unions, representative oemployers of labour and other bodies were also supplied with a copy of the proposed draft of the Punjab Trade Union Regulations:-
(1) The Northern India Chamber of Commerce, Lahore. (2) The Punjab Chamber of Commerce, Delhi (Lahore Braneh). (8) Industries Development Board, Ludhiana. (4) Bai Bahadur Seth Prabhu Dyal, M.B.E., Mill Owner, Multan. (5) Messrs. Allibhoy Wnllijee, Multan. (6) Lala. Manohar Lal, Factory Owner, Jhang. (7) Sardar Ujjal Singh, Factory Owner, Mian Channu. (8) Lala Bulaqi Ram, Factory Owner, Chiohswatni. (9) Lala Balmokand Gupta, Birla Cotton Factory, Okara.
(10) Grain Merchants' Association, Lyallpur. {11) Fruit Merchants' Association, Rawalpindi. (12) Artis' Association, Rawalpindi. (18) Cloth Merohants' Association, Rawalpindi. (14) Crump· Market Association, Jheluro. (15) Merchants' Association, Baha-ud-din.
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lVoL X·A, page 428. IV ol, X ·A, P.Re 428.
LIST OF GOVERNMENT SERVANTS PUNISHED FOR FORMING A UNION OR ASSOCIATION.
369. Mr. M.A. Ghani: (a) Will the the Chief Secretary be pleased to state whether any Government servant has so far been punished in any way for forming a union or association or taking part in it ?
(b) If so, would he kindly place a list on the table of such servant OP 1ervants showing-
(i) the name or names of such servant or servants; (ii) the name or names of the service or services to which he or they
belonged; · (iii) the name or names of the place or places where he was or they
were last posted ; (iv) a brief statement of his or their activities for which he was or they
were punished?
UNIONS OR AssoCIATI~NS OF GOVERNMENT SERVANTS~
368. Mr. M.A. Ghani : With reference to the answer given to my starred •question Ko. 127 put on the 15th March 1927, will the Chief Secretary be pleased to state the conditions on which the Government has given the right of forming associations to its employees?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: The honourable member is referred to the answer to part (b) of question No. 867 (above).
- t.lNioNB OR AssoCIATIONB OF GOVERNMENT BERVA.NlrS.
367. Mr. M. A. Cham. : With reference to my starred 1 question No. 125 put on 15th March 1927 and the answer thereto, will · the Chief Sec- retary be pleased,- · Y J
(a) to name the associations to whom the purport of the rules framed by the Government of India. for the recognition of unions and associations of Government servants was sent ; ~- .
(b) to place a copy of the rules on the table ? Mr. H. W. Emerson: (a) A copy of the rules was forwarded direct to
the Punjab Commission Association, the Punjab Civil Service Association (Executive Branch) and the Punjab Civil Service Association (Judicial Branch). Copies were also fowarded to all Heads of Departments, for necessary action, and if the honourable member so requires, information will be obtained from them in regard to the associations to which they for warded copies. It may be explained, however, that a copy of the rules will be forwarded on application to any association to which official rtleog nition has been accorded, or to any proposed association which is prepared
_ to comply with the conditions stated in the rules. · (b) Government is not prepared to place a copy of the rules on the tab~.
or to publish them for general information.
1v-01. x~A1 pil~ dti. • Vol. X-A, page 430,
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E'!-l'QUIRY INTO THE ECONOMIC CONDITION OF TitE PEOPLE OF TllE PUNJA:8,.
. . 373. Mr. M.A. Gbani: With reference to Council !'quest.ion No. 181 ,(starreci) put by me on the fotli March 1"927, and· the answer thereto, will . . .
I·' f:
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UNI()NS OF GoVERNM.ENT SERVANTS.
. 372. Mr. M. A. Ghani : Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to :State what percentage 6f members ofa. particular Government· service should :fonb a union in order that it may be recognised by the Government ?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: No percentage has been fixed by Government . .. ;,-:
f. ,_·,_
'.VHE PUN.JAB PATWARIS' AND KANUNGos' AssootATION. Jl'IL Mr. M.A. Cllani : · With reference to the answer given to Council
1queetion No. 129 (starred) put by me on 15th ~fa·rch 192'7, will the Honour· .able the Revenue Member be pleased to state the number of patwaris and kanungos·fonnd on enquiry to be members of the Punjab Patwaris' and
:Ka.nungos' Association ? • The· Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain : The information asked
· :for is not· available and no such inquiry has been considered necessary.
i i
PEONS' UNIO?t. 370. Mr. M.A. Glwu i Will the tbe Chief Secretary be pleased
to stat~ (aJ' whether he is aware that the peons c1f different Government de
partments la.tely organised themselves into a; union ; (&) whether it is a fact that the Registrar of the High Court called
for an explanation from the High Court peons for their· joining the union ;
(e) whether it is a fa.et that the High Court peons were severely re primsnded for joining the union ;
(i:y the reason& for the Registrar's action ? Mr. H. W. Emerson: (a) Yes, as a result of the honourable memberr
~eidiffli; (b) Yes. (c) Yes.
. (d) As the association had neither applied for nor received recognition by Government! the conduct of the peons wag contrary to rules,
1· I.
.'Mr.&: 1P. · BileWM:. (•) Jfb, ·.IO ·JM· 8i1li.G.irnme111,· it··&:wa.re.·· If .11.iif ~l~ mea.be, .has ~ ~ormation: of. •Y . sidi (laie •· will ~~t,dt to m&,·I will.~ enquiries:: . . .
(b) Does not arise.
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PIWVIPENT FuND FOR REVEN~. PA~WA~~~.
311. Mr. M.A. Gbani: Will the Honourable Member for RevenUA) ·be pl~l{~d to. la.y a st~tement on the table showing briefly the scheme for ·tbe provident fund for the revenue patwaris as recommended by ibe f~j~b Government ?
The. H~~lablt: Mian Sir Fazl-i~Husain : A copy of the Patw~' .fr_ov~~~t Fung Sch~IJ,10 a::i, r.oooIUmende& by the Punjab Government an.d ~p~oyed by tbti Gov.ernm~t of. India. is laid on the table.
lbe
PROVIDENT FUND FOR REVENUE PATWARIS.
374. Mr. M. A. Ghoni: Will the Honourable Revenue Menil?~ pleased to state- - - -
(a) whether it is a fact that a provident fund for the revenue pa,tw~l'i,e was sanctioned by the Punjab Government in l~l; ·-·-
(b) whether it is a fact that the Punjab Government re~ep;e~ -~ ~atter to the Government o.f India, asking them. ti)' get t~ sanction of His Majesty's Secretary of State for h:\ct.~ uj. Council ; · · ·-
( c) when was the matter referred to the Government of India; (~). whether the required sanction has now been given. by the Ssere"
·· tairy of State for India in Council ; - (1,J} when does he expect to get the required sanction ; (!) what steps have so far been taken by him to get the required san•·
tion ? ·
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl·i-Hu"'in: (n), (b) & (o) ~~ - Patwaris' Provident Fund scheme was referred to the Government of India in March I 920. - .
(d'), (e) & (f) It was sanctioned by the Government of India only ip August.1927, and the Director of Land Records has since been asked tp submit his detailed proposals to start the scheme,
':the .Honourable Member for Revenue be pl~iea to state whether· the Gov· ' "(im •. is.1 ~C:P,, te> }lQ.l~. -.~ f.Pl~Y~· ~9- ~. ~J.lfllll}i}. _c<md,jtwµ. of .. the -~~l~ of tll{Punj'~b ? - If'n.f)f;i ~0~0 tit be Pl~ed tpi stQ.,t~t t~ ~sons _fcii no~ 4Pl~~ such an enq~i,tJ? , - , - - - - : _
°(•. IL>~w:-able Mi~ Sh· f•3'-i-r:U..sain : It is not known. what form of enquiry tl;J.,e honourable ~e!l).J:>er desires should be made. He 'is referred to the. Report of the Indian E)cono:o:;i.ic Enquiry Com:witt8!3 of 1~25; a copy of which is laid on tha·t~ble. '.ITlie. recopiinen,da.tic,ns ~a~ hl that_ report have been the snbject o! correspondence between the Pup.»b
-Government and the Government of India. - .. . - '.lllle Board of Economic Enq~j~y, Punjab, which is ¥sisted by
, a Government grant, has also conducted enquiries into. particular subjects, '.IJhe honourable member is referred to the publications of the Board.
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' ·i ijo,~{Mian Sil' Fazl+lltU!lin. j .. . BtrLBS ·1on !l'REJIUNAGDENm <>• Tb P.&TWA.R1s' PROVIDENT FuNn·.'I
~- 1. In these rules "salary" includes (a) pay including any portion :of it; deducted on account of fine, (b) local allowance, and (c) personal allowance.
2. Every permanent patwa.ri appointed as such after the i.?Moduction . of these rules shall be required to join the Provident Fund.
, 8~ No permanent patwari appointed as such before the introduction, efthese rules shall.be bound to join the Provident Fund; but every such pat :wari shall be at liberty to do so at any time after the introduction of these· rules. .
- 4. No assistant patwr ri, settlement patwari or officiating patwari shall be eligible for joining the Provident Fund.
5. A deduction of 3! per cert. or half an. anne in the rupee shall be made from the salary of every patwari who has joined the Provident Fund ; and all deductions made under this rule from the salary of any patwsri shall be credited to that fur d as his subscription thereto. In making such deduc-· tions fractions of a rupee of salary shall not be taken into account.
' 6. All deductions made under rule 5 from the salary of any month· shall ·b~ shown in the salary bill for that month.
7. An account of the Provident Fund shall be opened at the Post Office Savings Bank in the name of the Deputy Commissioner as its manager, and a ledger shall be maintained for that fund in the District Ksnungc's. office in Form A appended to these rules. Immediately after the salary bill for any month has been cashed, all the sums to be credited to the Provident. Fund shall be posted in the ledger and paid into the Savings Bank.
8. All amounts credited to the Provident Fund on account of interest and all amounts debited to that fund on account of payments under rule 11 shall also be posted without delay in the Provident Fund ledger mentioned. in · the preceding rule.
9. No voluntary deposits from patwaris shall be credited to the Pro· vident Fund, nor shall any patwari be permitted to subscribe to that fund. while he is officiating in any other post.
10: A separate account in Forni B shall be kept and written up in the District Kanungo's office C1n account of every patwari who has joined the· Provident Fur-d ar d a. copy of this account showing every payment credited ;itb interest thereon shall be furnished to every such patwari as soon as possible after the close of the financial year ti which the account relates.
11. The whole of the amount standing at the credit of a patwari on account of his subscriptions to the Provident Fund and the interest thereon. shall be withdrawn on his decease or retirement or 011 his ceasing to be a patwari \y resignation, reduction, dismissal or substantive appointment i.<> some other post and paid to him or if he is dead to his heirs along with a.ny· amount due under .rule 12 or 14.
12. Except in the case referred to in rule 14 every patwari joinmg the Provident Fond or in the event of his death bis heirs shall be entitled to receive from Government an amount equal and in addition to that due to him under rule 11 subject to any deduction ordered by the Collector'
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,1126
<J I
. WlfT.ARRBD Quuriojs~i~ 1k3\fjjras,
undefl'ltle ls. The amount payable under this rule shall be paid when the patwari finally quits Government service.
18. (1) The Collector may withhold the whole or any portion of the, amount that would have· been otherwise payable to a patwari or his ·hefrs under rule 12 if the patwari is dismissed or his service has not -been of ap proved character or for any other sufficient reason. The amount standing> at the credit of a patwari on account of his subscriptions to the Provident Fund and the interest thereon shall in no case be withheld.
(2) An appeal from the order of the Deputy Commissioner passed under. this rule may be made to the Commissioner.
14. Where on the retirement of a patwari who has been a permanent patwari for 10 years or more at the time of the introduction of these rules and who joins the Provident Fund at any time after their introduction, it is found that the amount of the gratuity that would have been payable to him under rule 15, if he had not joined that fund is greater than the amount payable to him under rule 12, he shall be paid that gratuity instead of the latter amount.
15. Every patwari who is not bound to join the Provident Fund under rule 2 and who does not join it shall be given on retirement such gratuity as is. admissible in his case under the rule sanctioned in that behalf by the Govern· ment.
16. "\Vhere a patwari is transferred from one district to another; his Provident Fund account shall be closed in the district, from which he is trans· ferred and opened in the district to which he is transferred and arrangements
" shall be made for the necessary adjustment of the Savings Bank accounts of the Provident Funds of the districts concerned.
17. Where any amount due to a patwari or his legal heirs under rule- 11 remains unpaid for more than a year it shall be withdrawn and credited to Government and the subsequent payment of it shall be governed' by ordi nary rules regarding refunds.
18. (1) Ordinarily no withdrawal shall be allowed except as laid down in rule 11. But for special reasons temporary advances, not exceeding 6 months' pay, may be sanctioned by the Financial Commissioner, when the· pecuniary circumstances of the patwari are such that the indulgence is ab- _ solutely necessary.
(2) • 'illle following are examples of occasions on which the grant· of advances may be considered =:-
(a) to pay expenses incurred in connection with the illness of a sub scriber or a member of his family;
(b) to pay expenses in connection with marriages, funerals, or other- ceremonies on which the subscriber's religion renders expendi ture obligatory.
Note.-Advances are no, conJiued rigidly to the occABions cited in ela 111ee (a) and (b) above r
,
.(•) If amy -payment ha.to be made dori11g t'he ,~r on any lndhldul 'deposit aeeonnt, intereet •ball be calrnlat ed 011 that aencnnt only ae nearly a, P0\!4ible PJQ.P 1.rUonately at the mtH allowed bj the post offi,e, The amonllt of intef<)St ilaTeulated· shall be entere1 in eolamn 7 a~J1~t ti,~ llepQllll\ e9~~,n~ h~o,re :\lil'"!',nt i, 11',~e,
l!·oni.-1.i) Amonnts cl'ildlted or debited. to tbe P,ovi~ent Fund ~ball on the eame day be 'P')!lte4 i~ th, l'~ovidenfl'nnd led,et form A. Separate p,~ of Oe 11eoonnt iibgl\ 'be ,et apart for t1111h mo'llt~·s tronaactio110.
fii} The ent,ieB lo celnmns 7 ond 13 will be made enee a year only, esceJft In tbe o-.,e pri!vl~~<l by elau1eM,
,,i) Jn colnmn 13 ..-111 be ente,cd the millhr.um bal• nee at the oroda of the account between the · cl06e of the fourth day snd th& end <>f 1he month·, · ·
(it,} Aj. t1,, en(j r,f tta.oear i,it'°hft.r th, lohre,t. hoe be.e'! ad,ded. by.tbii r.os~ ofllee In. tM r .. e boot, tho amount of the lntereet added by the post oflloe rn the !)US beos on· tbe en tire amonne of tbe •um~ depoelt<d da,ln r tbll year to tile o,ed.!.t oUha fwi4, le" ·an1 amqunt already e11tered dmlng lbe year under elause (111 ehmll be dlotritnted among tlie lndi•idnal aooounts proper· tiomately to the total fo• tl)e year of the minimum monlbly balanoee (eotnnm 18) of the .eoount,. ·
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FORM A .
{ ~9D· !wan Sir Fazl-i- Husain. J . . (8) · When an advance has alr~y boon· granted; a subsequent, ~dvanoe $he.ll not be granted to the same subscriber until at least 12< montlu have ·-el&psed since the. complete r01;1a.yment of.the fitst advanoe.
(4) Adv!lll.Qa.s will be.reooverad Ill()Il.t.b.lY in not IQ.W-0 than. 24,iµ~~.m~:Q.tJ!,. A subsoriber may, however, make the repayment in less, tha:q_ 24 ins~h:p,.,e:o..~ij. -Ofi· lljllJ,y repay; 2 or more. inatalments at the salll,0 time, ~ooovw-iies. will Q~ made by compulsory deductions from sala.ry beginp.ing from the. fu;st p~y .. D,l~t of salary after the sanction of the advance, and will be in addition to the usual subscription.
PUNoJAB Ll!IGISLA.TIVB cquNoIL. tl~
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SALARIES'. OP G0VERNMENT SE&V•ANTS.
376. Mr. M. A. Ghani : (i) Will the Honourable Member for · .Pinanee b'e pleased to state -
(a) when the scale of salaries of different Government servants was revised last ;
(b) by what percentage were the salaries of these Government ser vants increased ?
(c) on what basis were those salaries increased? (ii) Will he kindly give reasons for the disparity of the percentages
-of the increase of the salaries of different Government servants? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (i) (a) The
:JAwt seneral, revision of the pay of non-gazetted establishment took effect from· tst October 1920.
(~) The ioorease. given to various classes of Government servants sbove mentioned depended, firstly, on the pa.y they were drawing before revi sion; and secondly, on the market rates paid for similar kinds' of work; Cl?oa· sequently, since the factors ·which had to be taken into conside~tion ,raried for different classes of Government servants; the increases also varied. If the hollOnraMe· member will refer to. the press e<>'flf7IIIU .. iqui: which :was
·iasu.oo I with. Punjab Government, Finance Department, e,n.donement No. 2977 (fin}.), dated the 27th January 1921; he will find iilft>rlll8tioo l'~'™1i the maximum increases which ware granted.
(c) The answer is contained ill pari. (b) above.
Noni.-The columns [n this account shall be filled by,alJ&ractuig the appropriate flgarea from, Form A.
; ' Intereat. Closing P'i,ening Deductions added at the bala.nce
Date. from end of the (total of RBJUJIU •. ,balance; · salary; ya-ar (or at columns ; the close of 2, 3 and 4'.
an account). :,
1 " 2 3 4. 6 6
·Rs; A. P, Rs. A• P. Rs. Al P. Ra .... l!,
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f
FORM J:k;.
: ~it" Provident Funa· ~1*1'.~~f.'l}or·tlte :y&m,.ndftg Jsht M~roh' 19. . ,. :
"No •. Qi:. Account;,..__ ,. Name -·~- , Official Designation, ----
:· ...
REPORT OF THE PuN .. AB BRIBERY INQUIRY COMMITTEE.
... · 378. Mr. M. A. Gbani: Will the Honourable Member for Finance be pleased to state what action has been taken by the Government on the report of the Punjab Bribery Inquiry Committee so far as the stopping oE bribery in this province is concerned ?
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ENQUIRY INTO THE GRIEVANCES OF SUBORDINATE GOVERNMENT SERVANTS.
377. Mr. M.A. Ghani: Will the Honourable Finance Member be pleased to state -
(a) if he is aware that there is a general discontent among almost all the Government subordinate servants as regards the in- sufficiency of their salaries ; ·
(b) whether it is intended to hold a general enquiry into the grievances of these subordinate servants ?
. The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) Government has not any information to the effect suggested.
(b) No. •
. [IIQA\ Sir Geoffrey. deMontmore.noy. ] ·(it) The reasons for the disparity of the percentage of the increase of
th& salaries of those Ot>vernment servants to which this reply relates· were· as follows :- • ·
Firstly.-The fact that previous increases had been given in different· departments at different times, the result being that in some departments the pay of the Government servants concerned was less inadequate than in other departments and a lower increase was therefore necessary in some departments than
. in others in order to make the pay adequate ; Secondly.-The increases given were dependent on the market rates
paid for similar kinds of work. Since the differences between the pay previous to revision and the market rates differed in different departments, there were necessarily differences· in the increases given ;
Thirdly.-Since the main object of the general revision was to give relief, according to necessity, to the various classes of Govern· ment servants in view of the general increase in the cost of living, and since this increase affected more hardly those on lower rates of pay, different percentages of maximum increase· were prescribeci :-
( i) For those whose pay and temporary allowance did not exceed Rs. 100 ;
(ii) For those drawing pay and temporary allowance from Rs. 101 to Rs. 200; and
(iii) For those drawing pay and temporary allowance over Rs. 200.
PV~JAB L~GISU'l'IVB COUNCIL . 1130
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Tlie Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontinorency : The action · '1Vbioh Government can take in. a matter of this nature depends in pa.rti-
. -enlar oases on the co-operation and help of the public in bringing cases of eormption to Government's notice and fearlessly and honestly assisting iJl the. production of evidence. Government can take general action in -eertain directions only :-
( a) By informing the people of its desire to eradicate corruption and of its intention of · investigating any complaints. In this connection, the attention of the honourable member is drawn to the replies given to. question No. 11, Legislative Council Debates, Volume X, Pa.rt' A, page 25 and No. 1590, Legislative Council Debates, Volume IV, page 54.
(b) By ordering its officials to keep a strict watch over their sub ordinates and to investigate all complaints which appear to be genuine .. This is a duty of all officers. The attention of the honourable member is also called to the declaration made by His Excellency the Governor in his address to the Legis lative Council on 25th October 1926 ;
(c) By keeping a check on the acquisition of property by officials. In this connection, the attention of the honourable member is invited to Circulars Nos. 38882 (Home-Gaz.) and 87848 · (Home-Gaz.), dated the 17th November and 20th December 1926, respectively, copies of which are laid on the table.
{d) By keeping the instructions of Government constantly in .the view of officials. For this purpose annual statements ·· are called for from Reads of Departments showing the action taken against corrupt officials during the year.
(e) By providing machinery for the investigation of cases. .This machinery already exists in the shape of rules for departmental enquiries, and in his address to the Legislative Council refer red to above, His Excellency referred to the possible advisa bility of creating a special agency for enquiring into such com· plaints. Such an agency has since been created on an experi mental basis. It takes the form of a panel of a few gentlemen selected from among those who have recently retired from the service of Government, of wide judicial or magisterial ex, perience and of known integrity. Whenever it is . considered that the services of one of these gentlemen would be useful either for the conduct of a preliminary investigation or t9 assist in a regular departmental enquiry, arrangements. ·are made accordingly. ·
2. Government is ready to consider any further practical methods ·for the diminution of corruption. Government must however make ·it clear that it is unwilling to contemplate a system of espionage which would be destructive of the moral and prestige of the services, would create an atmosphere of fear and distrust, and would be detrimen tal in the end to the interests of th~ public. For the same reason, vague and anonymo111 se <msationa cannot be investigated.
UNSTARRED QUESTiONS AND ANSWERS.
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. ·:i AM .;~eeted l1y the ,Governor .in Council to refer to IJlY circular letter .. :Ro. Jl.aS82;Gaz., dated'fhe 17th November 1926, on'the.snbjsot noted above, 'and to request that all ·Extra Assistant Commissioners serving in your Division may be requested to make a declaration in the enclosed form of the· iiim~&hhl '}Jmperty in'their,poHaSiion or that held by,their 'Wivesi:Bons, Ji)r~ or· !l.~phews. Parti1rulars in respect of family. holdings :.shmdd-:be ~iM·~pu&tely.
.. . 2. ,·{rheseiOflioenrBliould also,,be instmietad.to eubmit tlu:~ugh th~rP.~ ~ln.siaila.r deelai,a.tions ari-~1:ipeot of ,any aubsa4tmnt .apq 11is~. ,as. they occur. ·
_ lhmJEOir:.......Oontrol D'Ver immoveabk property held or acquired by Goo emment servants.
. From~B. D. :CBA1K, Ee11., C.S.I., -I.C.S., Chief Secretary to Government; Punjab,
:·~All >Commissioners of ,Divisi(D}S in· the·llunjab.
· .:No; '.37848 (Bem_..Gaz .. ), -dsted. Lahore, the· 20th. December, 1926 .
8. I am to request that these instructions may <he made known to all Government servants of provincial and subordinat services, and that. ateps m~y be ta.ken to ensure that they are complied with.
''.TuE Governor in Council has had under consideration the question· whetner rule II of the Government Servants Conduct Rules, which pres cribes that declarations must be made of immoveable property hefd or ao ·qmred by a Government servant or by his near relations, is sufficiently wide· in its terms. The rule as it stands applies only to the acquisition of property 3by the Government servant himself, or by his wife or any member of his family "living with, or in any way-dependent upon" him. Acquisition by a ton, brother or nephew not dependent on the !'Jfficial need not be reported •
. 2. The Governor in Council is of opinion that the rule does not pro· fride Gov:~mment with sufficient information in regard to its officers' terri totml eennectiona or local interests, and he has accordingly decided that -.ofar as the provincial and subordinate services are concerned, acquisitions of immoveable property by the wife, sons, brothers or nephews of a Govern· ment servant must in all cases be reported to Government in the Depart ment wncerned.
&,13·.rBcT:-Control over immoieoble JWOperty held or acquired . -"lry ·· ·Govern·· ment sen•ants.
To-All Heads of Department8 in the Punjab.
No. "33882 (Home--Oa-z.), dated 'Lahore, tbe l'?th 'November ·ffl6.
·Jrl'om-H. :D. C:&UK, "EBq., C.S.I., LC.S., Cbief .Secretary to Govt>rnment1t·Pu~b,
[8.,a.: Sir -0:ooffrey,deMontm.oreney.J
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REGISTB~TION OF TRADE UNIONS.
380. Mr. M.A. Ghani: Will the Honourable Member for Revenue <be, pleased to at ate :......
•(-a)'htiw'lWlony ;onions have ao·far,01ppliedfo,the Registrar of Tra.de- Urridns,- Ptmja.b, for ibeing -registat'ed under -she Indian Trade· Unions Act ?
j(b)•the'I1B$s· of 'those nniens.; (c) the dates on which they a.pplfed ; (a) w-hetlier they have boon registered. under the Aot ; (e)'the'tea-sona for·the delay In registering them;
'(j) whether'itis a "fa.ct tliat this 'delay is due 'to· want of printed oer ti:noates of registration ;
({r) what' stepi!' have been taken foi: getting the certificates printed?
PUNJAB U:-sEMPLOYM~NT COMl\UTTEE.
379. Mr. '.M. A. Ghani: Will the Honourable Member for Pinsnee, be pleased to state -
(a) when the Punjab Unemployment Committee was appointed i:
(b) who its members are; (c) whether they have submitted their report or not as yet; (d} who represents labour on the committee; (e) whether it is intended to appoint a labour member on it ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) February· 1927.
(b)· 11he -attention of 'the honourable member -is :invited :to '.'.(>.dnjab Government Gazette notifloations Ko. 4920, dated the 16th of. Fe-bmarjr -lffi·t.nd No. 6132-S., dated the12th of October 1927.
(c)· No. (d) The Director of Industries. (e) Does not arise.
How and when acquired (e. g., by inheritance, Rl!llllABXS, gift, purchase, etc,
In what district, tahsil, Description of holding, and village situated. with area and
assessment.
UNBTARR!lb '~'t/B~'l't6NB ''A'1tfb' ANSWilts. •
DBOLABATlO'N by . ... ·-· ··-· .. ~ 6f >the ibnno't°e'able 'fittfpeltty. held'. by him and members of his talliily·--"-----'--'-- .......... _-"-"'---.;....
NoTES.--(1) All Interests 'in land of a permanent nature, whether ownerebip, mortgage,. or hereditary occupancy, should be entered; also dwelling houee!! in. towns.
(2) Members of a family include the wife, sons, brothers or- nephews of the Gov ernment servant.
(3) Particulars in regard to family holdings should be indicated separately.
Second Division. Third Division.
B.A. M.A.
First Division. Third Division . Second Division. .2. Zainab Mahbub
,4lam.
GOVERNMENT STATE SCHOLARSHIP,
381. Mr. M.A.Ghani: Will the Honourable Minister for Education pleased to state -
(a) the names of the ladies and their academic qualifications recom mended by the selection committee for the Punjab Govern ment State Scholarship for professiom.1 educ.a.tiou in Eng land;
(b) whether it is a fact that the scholarship is awarded to post-gra duate and domiciled ladies of the Punjab only ;
(c) whether it is a fa.ct that it has lately been awarded to one Miss ·- Aparna. Devi Das Gupta;
(d) whether it is a fact that the lady selected is a. mere graduate and took her B.A. degree in the 3rd Division appearing in compart ment examination only and is not a domiciled Punjabi lady;
(e) if so, will he kindly state reasons for preferring a lady with lower qualifications to the other two with higher qualifications'}
'The Honourable Mr. Manobar Lal : .(a) i. Aparna Gupta , • Intermediate
B.A. In termedia te
s:: The Honourable Mian Sir F~i-Ht11ain : (a) Six. · (b) (1) The Punjab Motor Drivers Union, Labore.
(2) '}'be Punjab 'I'onga Workers' Union, Lahore. (3) The Upper India Hom.eopathic Associntior, Lahore. {4) The North-Western Railway Union, Lahore. (5) The Pur-jab Revenue Pr twaris' Union, Lahore. (~) ''.P~e North-V\'eRtern HRiJway Audit Union, Lahore.
{c) (1) 29th Jun€, 1927. (2) 24th August, 1927'. {8) 29th_ April, 1927. (4) 8th September, 1927. (5) 2ud September, 1927.' (6) 16th August, 1927.
(d) Nos. 1, 2 and S have been registered, others are under considera- ~~- ' (e) From an exan1inntion of the dates on which applications were made
'by the Unions so far not registered, it will be seen that no undue delay has -occurred. ·
(f) No. (g) Does not arise.
PuNJA.13 LBGI_BLATlVB COUNOIL. [21 BT N OVB, 1927~· •- ·
·-'
tPage .1023 ante. •Pages 1037-38 ante,
PRICES OF FOOD STUFFS AND OTHER NECESSARIES OF tIFE.
384. Mr. M. A. Ghani : Will the Honourable Minister for Agriculture be pleased to state-
( a) to what extent the prices of food - and other necessaries of life have increased generally in the Punjab since 1914;
(b) what steps have been .takea by the Government to lower the prices since 1920 ?
Boous }fEDIOAL DEGREES.
383. Mr. M.A.Ghani: Will the Honourable the Minister for Local / - Self-Government be pleased to. state-
(a) whether. he is aware that certain people in the province sell bogus medical degrees ; ·
(b) what steps have been taken by him to stop' such sale. The Honourable Malik Fir oz Khan Noon : The honourable member
is referred to the reply to unstarred question" No. 323. No instances have . ·i been brought to notice._
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U~ANI DISPENiARIES.
382. Mr. M. A. Ghani: (a) Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state whether he is aware that the majority of the people of the Punjab prefer the Unani system of medicine to the other systems ?
(b) If so, does he propose to take steps to establish small Unani 'dis- pensaries all over the province ? ·
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: . (a) Government are not aware of any such preference.
(b) Government have, at present, no such intention but it is open to local bodies to take steps to this end.
(b) Yes. (c) Yes. (d) Miss Gupta's qualifications are stated in the reply to (a) above.
She did not pass the B. A. examination in compartments.
(e) 'I'he honourable member's attention is invited to the reply given fo Council 1question No. 516 at the last session.
·Second Division. Second Division, ';['bird Division.'
8. Premwa.ti Thapar Intermediate B.A. M.A.
·11~: .. UNSTARRED QU,ESTIONB ,\ND ANSWEBB,-
, ... ,.;
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GoVlllRNMENT OR BTATE·AIDEn SoHooLB.
387. Mi-. M.A. Ghani: Will the Honourable Minister for Education be pleased to state-
(a) the number of Government or State-aided schools specially meant for (i) labour classes, (ii) depressed classes in the Punjab ;
(b) the places where they are situated ; (c) the standard up to which education is imparted there; (d) the number of students attending those schools; (e) whether any fee is charged or not ; (f) if charged, what amount is charged?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The information is being collected and will be supplied to the-honourable member when ready.
ORPHANAGES, POOR HOUSES AND WIDOW HOMES.
386. Mr. M. A. Ghani: Will the Honourable Member for- Finance be pleased to state how many (a) orphanages, (b) poor houses, (e) widow homes for (i) Europeans, (ii) Anglo-Indians, (iii) Indian Christians, (iv) Hindus, (v) Moslems, (vi) Sikhs, (vii) untouchables, (viii) other depres sed classes, there are in the Punjab run by (a). private individuals, (b) private institutions, (i) Europeans, (ii) Hindus, (iii) Mosleins, (i·v) Sikhs, · (c) District Boards, (d) Municipalities and (e) Government ?
the Honourahle Sir Geolf1 l!y deM ontmorency,: The information is being collected and will be communicated to the honourable member when complete.
'
FREE QUARTERS FOR GOVERNMENT SERVANTS.
385. Mi-.M. A. Ghani : Will the Honourable }Ierober for Finance be pleased to state whether free quarters are provided for Government servante drawing less than Rs. 40 per mensern ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency: Free quarters ar~ hot ordinarily provided for Government servants drawing less than Rs .. 40 per mensem. As an exception free quarters are ordinarily granted to Government servants including menials and artisans who are required by the nature of their duties to be permanently resident. on the spot at the place of their duty.
.'the llofl6urable Sardar Jc.emlra Singh: (a) The 'Current whole -sale prices of 24 articles of general consumption or trade utility at Lahore are published fortnighly by the Director of Land Records, Punjab, in Punjab Gazette and all leading newspapers together with the average price of these commodities during the pre-war period 1910-14 and a percentage of present and pre-war prices. The data published for the first fortnight of October, 1927, shows that for the commodities published the zvorage increase in current over pre-war prices amounted to 47 per cent.
(b) Prices are regulated by factors beyond the control of Government.
(21sT Nova, 1927. PVNJAB ~SM.'J'IVlC COUNCIL;. uoo·
• /
/
PENSION RULES. ,,·
390. Mr. M.A. Ghani: (a) Will the Honourable Member for Fi~nce be pleased to state whether it is a fact that the ruroi; ~ p-ensidn:it of-'ffitv:...
l_ ernment servants have recently been changed; (b) ll so, will he kindly place a copy of the rules on the table? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency ; (a) No. (b) Does not arise.
EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES FOB WORKMEN IN FACTORIES OR MILLS.
389. Mr. M.A. Ghani: Will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased to st.ate--:-
(a) whether there .are any factories or mills in the Punjab which have schools for the labourers and workmen attached to them;
(b) If so, the names of those factories and the places where they are situated;
(c) whether in any factory or mill in the Punjab women are employed; if so, how many are so employed;
(d) whether any factory or mill employing women has any system of maternity benefits ; if so, the names of those factories and mills and the places where they are situated ?
The Honourabie Mian Sir Fail-i-Husain • (a) No. (b) Does not arise. {e) Yes. 7,683 women in the year 1926. Present figures are not.
available. (d) No, as far as is known.
\(a) the names of the factories and mills in the Punjab; ;(6) · the names of the proprietor or proprietors of those factories and
mills; (c) the names of the places where they are situated ; (d) the number of labourers and workmen employed there?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i•Husain : As to factories and mills: registered under the Indian Factories Act and the number of persons em· ployed therein, the attention of the honourable member is invited to State ments II, III and IV a wended to the Annual Report on the working of the Indian Factories Act in the Punjab, a copy of which is laid on tlhe table. It is regretted that information as to the names of the proprietor or proprie tors of those factories and mills is not readily available,
··./~t:2·:· ... .. .. ·;~ .··->:.'._.._·.-·; -..
·,·· :·., i,}-~:l'-~~ ,.':
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ii~bJtJl ... -:·_• .. ·.r.::'······ . . . -- ~~~- .ii .. e : t''
,-::-=-1· Fl.croil.IlfFl~o·l\htts; '\\ . ; : ... r··. Mi'ii M. A. Ghard : . Wfil the Hon~a.ble•
b~' p\eased to lay a statement on the table showing->
''(i -- -- -- -- -- -·- _ . ...;
''.-'<:~ _· · ---·~_ .. _._' · __ ·. . .
. <
PROSECUTIONS UNDER THE INDIAN FACTORIES ACT. 392. · Mr. M. A. Ghani : Will the Honoura:ble Membar for Revenue
be· pleased to state-.: (a) how many keepers or managers of factories and mills in the Punjab
· have been prosecuted under the Indian Factories Act during (i) 1926 a.nd-(ii} 19"27 (up toJune 30th);
. (b) how many qf them were convicted; [c) how many oases are now pending in courts ?
-, . .._;._,,.
The total amount of compensa tion paid was Rs. 89,958-15-0; Information relating to in· dividual cases is not avail able.
As in (c) (ii). ( ii.) During the half year ending · . 30th June 1927.
-, ........
f. F I .. ..
· (ii) During the half year ending . Information is not available. #••-'~·· . • . ·sotb June 1927.
(d) (i) During 1926 ..
-,..· .. .. " ...
.. . .
. "\.. .
Compensation was paid to the victims or the dependents of the deceased in 461 cases.
(ii) During the hal£ year ending · 30th June 1927.
{c) (i) During 1!)26 ••
. PU~JAB.·~~-:Aot1Nclt~· . .. .., . . ~
· ACCIDBNTS IN l'ACrt>RlBS AND MltLS,
· ':·391~ .: Mr. M.A. Claui·~ , Will the Honourable l\fember · for Reve1111e 'be pleased to lay a statement on the table showing- . ·
(a) the number of accidents which occurred. in the various factoi'i~s and mills in the Punjab in (i.) 1926, (ii) 1927 (tip to 30th of Ju:ne);
(b) the number of labourers and workmen (i) killed, (ii) permanently disabled, (ivi.) temporarily disabled in those accidents ; ·
(c) whether any compensation was paid under the Indian Work men's Compensation Act to all those labourers and workmen
c mentioned in (b) ; · (d) t.he amount of compensation paid in each case?
. The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl·i·Husain: · · ; (a} (i) During 1926 . . 528 accidents .
. (ii) During the half year ending Information is being collected . 30th June 1927. and will be communicated to.
the honourable member when ready.
(h) (i) During 1926 15 fatal. 20 resulted in permanent dis
ablement. 488 resulted in temporary dis
ablement. As in (a) (ii).
1188: of'. -!:.,-.,: -v. ~-...,t·. -·>: . ·~'\..; ' .
:.· ...... ~:~~;:::-·~ .. ' -~"'"' =f\"·:·.
•.
WORKMEN'S COMPENSATION ACT.
393. Mr. M.A. Ghani: WiII tL.e Honourable Member for Revenue- be pleased to state- ·
(a) who have been appointed as Commissioners under the W~rkmen's Compensation Act for each of the districts of the Punjab;
(b) how many cases under the said Act came before them in (i) 1926 and (ii) 1927 (up to 30th June) ;
(c) how many of them were decided in favour of the capitalists and how many in favour of the labourers ;
(d) how many cases are at present pending before the Commis- sioners? •
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i .. Husain: {~) The following are the Commissioners under the Workmen's Compensation Act:-
(1) The Senior Sub-Judges at Ambala, Ferozepore, Amritsar, Lahore; Rawalpindi, Lyallpur and Multan.
(ii) The District Magistrates in all other disricts. (b) ( i) During 19~6 27 cases (25 new and 2 pending
from the year 1925) were tried by the Commissioners,
(i\) During the half year ending Information has been calfud for- SOth June 1927. from the Commissioners _ ap-
• pointed under the Act and will be supplied on receipt.
(c} (,) During 1926 14 oases (12 non-contested and 2 contested) were decided in favour of the labourers. Two cases were decided in favour of the capitalists, i.e., they were dismissed.
(d) As in (b) (ii).
5. (c)
(b) (i) During 1926 (ii) During the half year ending
30th June 1927.
(ii) During the half year ending 30th June 1927.
The Honourable Miao Sir Fazl.,i .. Husain : (a) ( i) During 1926 . . . 87 prosecutions, were instituted
against factory occupiers &hd managers under the Indian Factories Act.
38 prosecutions were instituted against factory occupiers ancI managers under the Indian, Factories Act.
36. 26.
• UNST..iRMD QUE.el'rlON'S ,A.ND ANSWBRS.
~vo1. rx-s, page J 784,
·,;
I t
SALARIES OP T.AHBILDARS AND NAIB-TARSILl>ARS.
395. Mt'. M. A. Gbani: Will the Honourable Member for Revenue _ be pleased to state-s- .
(a) by ·what percentage the salaries of tahsildars and naib-tahsildar s were increased when the scales of salaries of Government servants were revised in 1921 ;
· {~) what reasons there were for giving a far greater increase of salaries to munsiffs than it wa~ given to the t~h!lilqi\l'fl ~:qq I\~ib- tahsildars ? ·
The Honourable Mian Sir FazJ,.j .. J:lusain : (a) Before the revision of 1921 Tahsildsrs' pay was regulated by g:f{l,~es. During ~he Wa.:r tq~ emolu P.}ept~ ,v~r~ supplemented by certain allowances. At the revision ~ 1921
,, __ ,r1~~p,a.le was introduced. It is therefore impossible to say exactly -by -·'1tb,~~ ·.p~m~ent~ge the salaries of tahsildars and naib-tahsildars were in· ~r~~ed at tha.t ~ime. The rate o~ pay, under the graded system for tah- silda.rs was Bs: 175) Rs. 200, Rs. 250 and for naib-tahaildars Rs. 70, 85,
_100. Under the revised system the time-scale of pay , for tahsilda.rs is Rs. 180-V:f-~o with S appointments in the selection grade at Rs. 800 per mensem, which were subsequently raised to 12 and for naib-tahsil-
r fl.tnt · Rs. 8(h..-6~140 with a selection grade of 11 · posts a.t Rs, ~ 50 per . ,iV.fmsem. - __ . (b) · Tli:e. p13-y of munsiffs was increased in accordance with the orders of 1!>:t. SeQtetari pt ~t.l,\te ~ place them on the same footing as the Sub-Judges .ur bther proviM~~· ·
•
(a) whether it is a fact that in 1921 the Government undertook to build patwarkhanas for the re-venue patwaris and formulated a scheme to set apart two lakhs of rupees in the budget every year;
(b) whether the scheme was subsequently dropped and the reasons for the same ;
(c) whether he is aware that there is great discontentment among the patwaris ever since the scheme has been dropped ;
(d) whether any action has been taken by the Government to remove that discontentment ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: (a) & (b) The honour· able member is referred to the reply to a sinµlar council- question No. 857~ by Chandhri Afzal Haq given in October 19i6 •
. f•) No. (d). Does not. arise.
' l
• fA~~H~,t.~. .. · 3lt Mr· ltt A. G).aai : Will the Honourable Member for Revenue ·. t, pl~~ed to state.,-,. ·
[21sr NoVB, 1927 • . _._1.!_(0
~r~tf~A*"T;11:1eo T/rr·· '7::~~·.~1"''~'.~r::,· "'<'· s:,·r7?',·i~:(r·'.'.~:·· .: ··"ti
'·
FINANCIAL STATEMENT. The Honourable Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency (Finance Mem.b@r):
S~. His Excellency the Governor has recommended the adoption of .the
REPORT OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE FO:& 1925-26.
Secretary : The Report of the Committee on Public Accounts ~ the Punjab Legislative Council on the Audit and Appropriation Accoun~~ for the year 1925-26 and other matters is laid on the table.
ARRANGEMENTS FOR PATWARIS ATTENDING TAHSIL HEAD~UART.RS.
;197. Mr. M. A. Gh~ni: Will the Honourable Member for llevenue ,be plessed to state-
(a) whether it is a fact that all patwaris have to attend at their res· pective tahsil headquarters for about a fortnight every Sap- ten1ber; ·
(b) what arrangements are made by the Government for their- {,) accommodation to do their official work and (ii) residenoe :
(c) whether it is not a fact that they hare to live eitl!er ip a a~fi(J-i or on a roadside ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fail·i•ffqsain: (a) Patwaris hav9 ~o '-\ttend at tahsil headquarters every September to file jamabandis, Th,y remain there for as short a period as is possible and the period d~p~u,,!ls upon the quality and quantity of their work. Except in very special c~ no patwari is detained for more than 8 days.
(b) &(c) Patwaris make their own arrangements for their aeeommoda tion like other public servants and being in most case!! residents Q.f ~e tQh~il find no difficulty in making suitable arrangements. Govermuept ·i, not aware that they have sometimes to live on a roadside. ·
8'.UARIES OP TAHBll,D&:BS .llill NAll!•TAHSl~DARl':I.
. . 396. Mr. M.A. Ghani: Will -the Honourable Member for Revenue . be plea~d to state- ' . . . . . . .
(a) whether the Government is. aware that there is~ Wt1a~ 4i~cp~t~~t· ment among the tahsildars and naib-tahaildars over the qif~s tion of the increase of their salaries ;
(b) what action has been taken by the Government to remove that discontentment ?
The Honourable Mian Sir FazH-Husain: (a) Government is aware that some dis-satisfaction prevailed and prevails among tahsildars and naib-tahsildars over the inereasa.of their salaries in 1921.
(b) Government investigated the matter and came to the conclusion that the salaries of naib-tahsildars were sufficient; an adequate supply of suitable recruits has continued to be available.
In regard to tahsildars, the matter is still under consideration 11n4. ~ .announcement will be made in due course.
UNS'l'ABRlln QIJn'lm8 . A.l'JD ANSWERS.
.··.r .,:,.'I.I ..
Non-recurring. Capital 7,68,800
-Bevenue 5,56,795 Of the tota1, 6 lakhs is represented by additional funds needed for ad
vances to cultivators under the Land Improvement Loans Act and the Agriculturists' Loans Act. The demands also include some important measures for alleviating and checking water-logging, which it is important to put 'in hand before next monsoon and flood season.
Before these supplementary demands are moved, may I be permitted to allude to certain investigations to which I referred in . introducing the supplementary estimates on the 18th of July last? I feel that it is right that the house should have detailed information regarding the progress made with those investigations and the point to which they have proceeded . . On tha,t occasion I dwelt on the importance of coming to a well thought out and wise conclusion regarding the manner in which the recurring remis sion of 60 lakhs of the provincial contribution should be used. I pointed out that this was the last recurring windfall of any magnitude, outside provincial resources, which we could expect to receive; and I hope I also
. tn~de clear that any error of judgment committed in arriving at a decision regarding the method of its utilization would operate as a permanent and incurable blemish on the scheme of the future regulation of our provincial finances for all time to come ; very much the same considerations also arise as regards the question of any remission of taxation.
It is not within the power of human vision to look for ahead with any degree of certainty; but for a proper appreciation of a position of this kind it is necessary to forecast as far as· may be possible within the constricted limits of our vision and with as much care and accuracy as may be possible, what accretions of revenue we may expect to receive. during· the next few years and what expenditure we shall incur on account of new programmes. of development. This examination of financial resources and requirements calls for the closest collaboration between the administrative departments and the Fina.nee Department. Prophecy regarding revenue is more or less directly within the competence of the Finance Department ; but an accurate appreciation of the field which will be covered by programmes of new ad· ministrative development must primarily emanate from the administrative department, and the Finance Department can only contribute assistam!e by a· check of the figures of estimated costs. The task of preparing a. state· :ment of financial requirements and resources over the period of the next
Rs. Nil. 21,886
Capital Revenue
rnf:ln. Sir Geoffr&y del\fontmorency .J supplementary demands which will be laid before 'the Legislative Council to-day. It will be observed that these supplementary demands are incon-
. sidera ble in total, particular Iy as regards recurring expenditure. They fall · into the following categories :-
Recurring.
[21sT Novn.1921~ PUNJAB LJll(llSLA.,:'!VE. OOUNCIL. 1142
\(.~ ]
· .. ·I . I
. , ·:1
·, -·,
: -, ·:·'
. ,. t};}r~ years, with such· accuracy ·a.a the. ciroumsta.nces render possible, has. proved one of great complexity. To some of the difficulties I have alluded
· on.a. previone occasion. Their extent may be more easily gauged by one example when I reveal that they have included a study of various methods. and alternative fignrea of cost of different schemes connected with the pof sibility of the introduction of compulsory primary education in its real sense into the province. The question has also been complicated by the problem. of the extent to which local bodies can bear a share of further development
_without jeopardy to their financial stability. I am glad to be able to inform the house that good progress has been
made with these investigations ; and I desire in this connection to pay a tribute to the assistance given by all departments and in particular to the skill and industry which Mr. Emerson has brought to bear on the task. Owing to the difficulties which the situation presents and to the fact that
'final decisions have still to be taken in regard to certain problems which can only be taken when detailed figures relating to certain schemes are more complete, Government has not yet arrived at final conclusions and will defer the announcement of its conclusions until it places its budget proposals before tho House; but in the meanwhile it desires that the legislature should be in possession of the main facts and figures brought out by the enquiry and should be able to study them in the time which will intervene before t.be presentation of the budget. I, therefore, propose to put the full materisl.. upon which Government itself will be working in· arriving at its conclusions and framing its budget proposals, before the members of the legislature· now so that they may have leisure to reflect upon the difficult financial pro· blem which confronts us. The solution of the latter in the right manner wilt be of the most vital importance to the future of the province.
For this purpose I lay on the table, with the permission of the Honourable· . the President, copies of_ a. paper which has been prepared by Mr. Emerson": at the desire of Government entitled " Examination of financial resources and requiremnts for the period 1927-28 to 1930-31 inclusive." The figures only deal with ordinary revenue receipts and expenditure, that is to say,-· they exclude receipts from the sale of land and the like which we classify as 'Extraordinary receipts 'and which we do not regard as available for general .. - revenue expenditure. The limitations on its accuracy I have already-· attempted to explain. Generally speaking in the absence of unforeseen disasters or obstacles the forecast of revenue is likely to be closer to pro· babilities than that of expenditure. The sources of revenue are fewer and their scope is better known ; but even exhaustive forecasts of expenditure are· necessarily more fallible. The picture is not fully filled in. Items are forgotten 01· not foreseen though really forming necess!3-fy and esse_µt_ial portions of contemplated schemes and the exact limits and oommitmenta involved by expenditure initiated upon a certain object are harder to visualize ahead with a.ny degree of precision. ·
Two methods of examination have been used. Firstly, assuming our· present financial position is sound for the purpose of financing existing ob ligations, we have employed the valuable method of estimating the new recurring receipts and the new recurring expenditure (including both expendi ture to which we know ourselves to be committed and expenditure involved.
.',· •,.:···.:, .. ,·:···
< /:.··.
'I'hese totals are enade up of three kinds of items, firstly, the remission of pro.vincial contribution which amounts to 60 lakhs each year, secondly, · 1 iba normal expected expansion of revenue under Laud Revenue, Stamps, Irrigation, Registration, Agriculture and other heads which totals 33 · ~, 77 · 61 · and 105 · 59 Iakhs for the. years in. series in the order given above,
•.aud thirdly, certain smaller sums of new revenue which may be expected t.o accrue from medical foes, agrioultural depots ancf farms and public works if certain new expenditure is sanctioned.
On the expenditure side we have the new recurring expenditure of · t927-28 which amounts to Rs. 29·03 and will recur during the years of th" series. To this we must add new recurring expenditure due to existing commitments, i.e., the continuance of schemes already known to the Council and approved of by them; to quote a few examples out of many, under the head will fall the completion and maintenance in future of the 70 rural dis pensaries sanctioned by the Council this year, the payment of the increments of teachers in the educational expansion schemes already passed and in-
, \~duced, the staffing and equipment of farms already approved for establish ment and the maintenance of roads accepted for construction. The expendi ture under this head will amount to Rs. 21 · 84, 34· 39 and 45· 94 Iakhs in
. t~e y.~rs 1928-29, 1929-30 and 1930-31, respectively. Finally the third and : largest -item is provision for the programmes of new development of vario~s -departments, which will total 35· 64, 59·38 and 81 · 72 lakhs in each yea.r
" 170·59
94 · 62 lakhs, . 140·61 ,,
1928-29 1929-30 1930-31
:{ijoxt,Jw Geofir~y ds:Mentm0M101.) ~~(:.. . . . . . .. . . 1ra schemes of expansion propqs~ by depantments) over th~ period and have ,attempted to see how far the former will suffice to meet the l&tter.
The value of this method of examination is that if new recurring receipts are found to be largely in excess of additional recurring expenditure, we can .assume that the financial position is secure, and there will be a comfortable :aaargin to permit of further devel~pmeut beyond the end of the period and to meet the cost of schemes which in their progress will not have reached the peak of expenditure during the period under review. If, on the other ha,µd, the excess of receipts is small, the margin of scrutiny will be insuffi eient, because there will be no source from which to meet tho further develop· :urnnt alluded to above or unforeseen demands, H new receipts are hiss than ?,dditional recurring expenditure, then the financial position is definitely insecure and dangerous. This method of examination is also useful in demonstrating whether the pace at which it is proposed recurring expenditure on new schemes should proceed is likely to outstrip the· growth in recur· rjng receipts. Existing balances are not taken into account, because while -Gcvemment can carry on for a snort period only with balances, it cannot clearly continue to exist and function on savings ; and most of the latter -n.iust in any case in the natural course of events be absorbed by non-recur· wig expenditure connected with development programmes.
Tested by this first method we find that our new recurring receipts .are likely to be :-
[21sT Novn. 19-27. PUNJAB J,J:GISL.U':WIII COU~CIL,
;
These figures are less favourable, but it may be observed they do not· take into account the fact that some of the non-recurring expenditure wb,ioh they include may be met out. of balances,
I have said that human vision is limited and that is the reason for not taking the examination beyond the year 1930-31 ; but looking to the years beyond this period there are some features of such a. positive nature that they deserve mention as clearly affecting the consideration of the lesson to be drawn from the figures compiled for the period ending in 1980·81. The first is that the peak of expenditure on some of the new schemes will not have been reached by 1930-31. Take for example education. The inevitable sequence of the execution of the particular educational scheme,
-embracing both new expansion and the gradual application of compulsion as regards primary education, the figures for which we have included in our calculations up to the end of 1930-31, will be an expenditure of certainly not less tha.il l,Q9 lakhs more recurring in 1938-39 than we are spending in
·•lie present year.
-5·86
+ll ·49 12,12 · 77
(Lal,.hs.)
11,51 ·II
11,97·68
12,24 ·26
HJ28-29
11)~9-30
1930-31
' . Expenditure. Receipts, Deficlt cr
excess,
------ ------ (La.khs.) [La.khs.)
II,97·t;J
1:2,03·54
It will be observed that as the expenditure figures .cannot be rega;tq~d as all inclusive, margins are small.
The second method employed is to attempt to estimate the total re· eeipts for the ordinary revenue account and the total expected expenditure on this account for the three years in question. This brings out the following . figures:-
'. - --~-, ...... (1) (2) ExcEIIIB of.
:Ne~ reour;ring Ne'V reourring (1) <:\YU- income. expenditure (2)
(Lakha) (Lakhs.) (La;~h!!.)
1928-29 iH ·62 8~·51 8·11
1929-30 J,40·61 1,22;80 17·8)
1930-31 I.70·59 1,56 ·69 13·90
'()f the' series, respectively, in the order mentioned. Adding these together -.,µ4 ~.- -~--- .,_·~--t. h_~ with t~e µ~ of ~'W reoqrtjµg r~eipt~_we get the fol).p~ng r,E\,'H~lts :-,- ·
_c-·,;-:-~·."-·':"
·'
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE GRANT.
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency (Finance Mem oor): Sir, I beg to move:--
" That an addit ional sum not exceeding Rs. 8,600 be granted to the Governor in Council to defray the charges that will come in course of payment for the year ending the- 3lat of March 1928 in reaped of Administration of Justice.'' _
Mr. Pesident: The question is- - •• That an addit11inal sum. not exceeding Rs. B,600 be. granted to the Governor in
Council toc!efray the charges that will oome in course of payment for the year ending the 31st of Ma.rch 1928 in respect of Administration ofJuslice."
IRRIGATION GRANT.
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i·Husain (Revenue Member): Sir, I· beg to mo Ye :-
" That an additional sum not exceeding Rs. 1,50,-166 be gl'll nted to the Governor hi Counolj to defray the charges that will come in course of payment for the year ending the 31st of Mar<:h 192 8 in respect oflrrigation."
The motion was carried.
"That an additional sum not exceeding Rs. 6,000 be granted to the Punjab Government (Ministry of Agriculture) to defray the charges that will come in course of payment for the year ending the 31st of March 192Sin respect of Excise." · ·
The motion was carried.
EXCISE GRANT.
_ The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh (Minister for Agriculture) t Sir,. I beg to move i->
GOVERNMENT'S DEMANDS FOR SUPPLEMENTARY AND ADDITIONAL GRANTS, 1927-28.
~; .
, _fll<>n. Sir. Geo:ffery .deMontmortmCy,] On the revenue side we tnust remember that our expectations a:re small'
after 1980-81. The peak of the increase of revenue expected to accrue from the Sutl~~ Valley Project will be reached in 1988-34 and will only amount to 11 lakhs more than the figure for new recurring revenue from the source included in our calculations for the year 1980-81.
We have not, it is true, included in our calculations any revenue from the Hydro-Electric Scheme which should begin to come in about the end of 1980,81 ; but on the other hand we have not also included any additional expenditure which may confidently be expected to be likely to occur as a result of the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Agriculture and the Statutory Commission on the Reforms. ·
I am confident that a study of the detailed figures in the paper will enable the honourable members to approach the budget proposals when presented
· with that familiarity and sureness of touch, the foundations of which rest - in a complete understanding of the many complexities of the financial situa- tion and which is the only sound basis 'forinformed scrutiny and wise con
. elusions,
[21s, Nova, 1927 ... PUNJA.B. LBGI'BLATIVE OOUNOIL, 1146
1" That the tote.I grant- be reduced by_ Re. I." (Ko'l'E.-To discuss the policy of appointments (on executive fide) under the patronage
.of the High.Court at Lahore.) .
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.j
. ' I
·, Member):
.i, POLICE GRANT,
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency (Finance .Sir, I beg to move :
.. Tha.t a supplementary sum not exceeding Rs. 52,0J 7 be granted to the Governor in Council to defray the chargeR that will come in course of payment for the year ending the 3let of March J 928 in respect of Police."
Mr. President : The question is- : " That a. su.ppleni\ntary sum not exceeding Rs. 52,0l 7 be granted to th~ Governor in
. Council to defray the charges that will come in .eourse of payment for the year . ending the 31st of March 1928 in respect of Police."
; . Chaudhri Duli Chand [Ka~l\81 (Non-Muhammadan), RuralJ (Ur~UJ-:· .. .Bir, 1 want to make a few observations on the demand under conaiderasion;': At the Simla session of the Council when the question of special police fo.- .. - Lahore was being discussed, Government gave an assurance that they would ' consider the question of recruiting Hindus in larger numbers while recruiting new men in the force. On this I requested the Government to define the term Hindu and pointed out that if the Government included the agricul turist Hindus in that category the'fe was nothing for me to say further on the subject, but if . it excluded the agriculturist Hindus as had been done in the past I did not feel satisfied with the definition. The Honourable the Finance Member in a jesting mood replied that although I was pleading the cause of people belonging to the South-Eastern districts of the Punjab, I. was not aware of the number of constables recruited from Rohtak and it was under a. wrong impression that I was questioning the policy of the
-Government so far as the recruitment of the Hindu zamindars in the Police Department was concerned. Sir, I am of the same opinion now and again ask the Honourable the Finance Member to kindly state the number of Sub Inspectors, head constables and constables recruited from the -Bonth-' Eastern districts of the Punjab out of the total number of 10 Sub- Ins peetors, 52 head constables and 850 constables. What I really ask Government is to formulate a. principle with regard to the policy of recruitment of agri. cultnrist Hindus in the Police Department.
<lOV'jllR~MENT's DEMANDS FOR auI'Pl.ElilENTARY AND ADDITIONAL 1141:< · ' ·· . G~ANTS, 1927 -28.
SIMdkli Muhammad Sadiq : Sir, I have given notice of an amend- :m.ent1 to this demand. ·
Mr. Presid.ent : l think the amendment is out of order, as its obj~t .: is to discuss a. matter of policy which can be discussed only when the genetar budget is under discussion, unless of course, the supplementary grant. involves an independent question of policy. In my opinion, the demand under disouasion does not involve any such question and, therefore, I role -that the amendment is out of order. ·
The question is- " TJ1at an additdonal sum not exceeding Re. 8,600 be granted to the Governor in Coo.ncil
to defray the charges that will 'come in course of payment for the year ending the 31st of l'i.a.rch 1928 in respect of Administration of Juetice."
The motion was carried.
; . ~ ...
Shaikh .Muhammad S-!i,diq [Amritsar City (Muhammadan)]., (Urban): Sir, the Honourable Member wants Rs, 10,000 for the purpoae of a grant to the Salvation Anny.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon·: For a hospital.
!1-fEDICAL GRANT.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan. Nbon: Sir, I beg to mov~ "That an additional sum not exceedlng Rs. ro.ooo be granted to the Ftinjl\b G'ovem
ment (Mini8try of Lccal Self.Govenmirnt) to dd1~y the charges that will ccme hi course of payment for the year ending the 31st of Marcl1 1928 in respect of kedi cal."
- · Mt-. Preiident: The question is- ~', That.a.~. adlii!i~nal sum not exceeding Rs, 10,000 he granted to the P:uniab .'Oovern· : ment (Mmistry of Local Self-Government) to defray the charges that will come
. iii course of payment for the yean·nding the 31st of Maro.b 1928 in reqiec't .O'f Medical."
!• That a supplementa"ry l!UID not exceeding Rs. 62,0l 7_ be granted to the Governodn Oo\JnciJ t'o defray th'e charges that wil1-,.caD'.le in COO?Ee of payment for the year-
. 'ending the 31st of March 1928 in re'spect ot Police." •
Th~ motion was curried.
. [Chaudl\ri Duli Chand]. :bm-uitment to the Police Dpee.rtnient is not Illftde according to any
fixed standard or principle. Non-agriculturists occupy all tha higher ranks of the service, while the lower ranks fall to the lot of the agrieulturist Hindus. For instance, take the case of 100 constables recruited from the Bohtak District. Out or these, 80 tendered their resignations because they . were not satisfied with the treatment meted out to them. All of them \Vete ea:~service men, and some of them had held non-commissioned ranks i I1 ~ army. They had led an honest and straight forward life and expected that• similar treatment would be meted out to them in the police force to which they were accustomed in the army.
if would suggest that agriculturist Hindus should be recruited in the same proportion and to the same ranks in the Police Department as is done in the &rmy. I do not grudge the position or status enjoyed by others but I think it is reasonable to have officers of a department from the same class of people· of which the lower ranks are composed,
Mr. Presid~t : May I ask the honourable member whether he is · opposed to the motion or wants to support it. -·· · Clh,ttdhri ll'uli Chand: Sir, I am opposing the motion.
One thing more. Fairness, equity and justice demand that retired' military officers of tried integrity and brave~, who have never hesitated· to shed their blood for the Government, should be preferentially recruited to the regular police force, and recruitment on the basis of educational' qualifications alone should not. be encouraged. The special police at Lahore· will be disbanded very soon and I would ask the Government to provide t:ij~e et-service men with billets who have proved themselves capable of· dil~hafging their duties efficiently and honestly .
. Mr. Preiident: 'I'he question is-
1148
CJOVEltNMKNT'S DEMANDS FOR SUPPLlllMBN'l'ARY AND ADDITIO~AL 114.t. GBANTS .. 1927-28, •
Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq: Sir, I have no objection to the grant of Rs. 10,000 or even 10. lskhs for the sake of a hospital, It is for the good
' of the people and I will have no objection to such grants; but when the money is being gmrted to an institution where religious propaganda is carried on, I strongly object to it. There is already enough trouble between Muhammadans and Hindus ; let not Government create further trouble between Christians, Muhammadans and Hindus. Everybody knows and certainly the Honourable }Iinister for Local Self-Government knows it too that the Salvation Army is nothing but an institution to carry on propaganda in fo vour of Christianity. I am hot for one moment attacking any religion, but I do say that when money is being granted to an institution of this kind, a promise should be taken from them that no sort of propaganda will be carried on in that institution. There is no use of giving money to such institutions where religious propaganda is being carried on. It may bee Rs. 10,000 or it may be 10 pies; it does not matter. "\Ve are not going to give money to fm institution which carries on religious propaganda, he it a. Hindu or a Muslim or a Christian or i; Jewish. The policy of the Government and of this Council should not be to encourage such institutions which carry on religious propaganda. The hospital or school may say "people come. here to take advantage of the institution ; let them hear our propaganda or let them not hear." But I know at least one institution where if you go for medicine, you are obliged to hear one hour's propaganda, Unless you are prepared to hear that, they refuse to give you medicine. This is a fact. In Amritsar I heard that. a certain Muslim woman had gone toa certain hospital and there she was taken in as an in-patient. There was religious propagandr. going on there. Immediately she disappeared and she refused to go back. So unless a promise is taken from the institution that no religious propaganda will be carried on there, I oppose this demand.
· The Honourable Malik Firoz khan, No6n: 'I'his is a. very small matter and I do not think there was any need for the honourable member to have got excited. Even if a hospital is being run by the Christian com munity, I think the honourable member will agree with me that it is our duty to supply medicine not only to Muslims and Hindus but also to the Christian community as well. The Christian community in the Punjab, as far as I know, is mainly drawn from the sweeper classes. I do not want to enter into any controversial matter ; but when there is a community that goes and looks after people whom we treat as outcastes, I think it is a thing which we ought to encourage .
. Shaikh MuhamJDad Sadiq: What I said was that religious propaganda. is being carried on there to other communities ; my honourable friend ha.a misunderstood me ..
The Honourable Malik Firoz Kha11t Noon : If the honours hie member is not opposed to the ,m01iey being granted, I have nothing to sa.y.
Shaikh Mubam~ad Sadiq : What I say is that a promise should be taken from them that no religious propaganda will be canied on there.
Mr. President : The question is- !! Thatanadditiond sum not exceerling R~. 10,000 b·e gr-anted to the 1'1lnjab Gonrninent
(Ministry of Local SeH.GovernJDetitj to defray the rbarge. s that will come in m,,mie t>£ !)&'yia'ent for the yeM 'ending the 31st of Ma.rel! l 92S in reepect of Medical."
The motion was carried.
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INDUSTRIES GRANT.
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Sir, I beg to move- " That an additdonal sum not exceeding Rs. 72,593 he granted to the Punjab Government
('Ministry of Education) to defray the charpr« that will come in course (lf payment for the year ending the 31st o! March 192 8 in respect of Industries,"
Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq rose to move his amendment". Mr. President: The amendment is out of order. Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq: If you will permit me, I will explain,
c.Sir. Now there is a new policy of the Government. They say that they now intend to make the Tannery a training ground for village tanneries and they have also got the new policy of leasing it out. So there is a bso lutely a departure from the old system. I, therefore, submit that. the .amendment is in order.
Mr. President : Will the Honours ble Minister explain to the House whether the demand under discussion involves a departure from the policy
.alrsady laid down ? · The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: You will observe, Sir, that the
.demsnd made is under two heads, one the Model Tannery at. Shahdara and the other, Demonstration and Weaving Factory at Shahdara, So far as the first part of the demand is concerned, it consists of an item of Rs. 17,300. This is for carrying forward the·work ofinstruction which is being given in that Tannery in pursuance of a policy which is in vogue from the very first -da.y ofthe starting of the institute. It is not in prosecution of any new policy. I£ the Tannery had also been engaged on commercial work, the demand would undoubtedly have been larger. But the demand is restricted for carrying on the work that is going on from the very first day.
'So far as the other part of the demand is concerned, it is abundantly explained in the memorandum itself .
. ' . Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq: Paragraph 3 on page 1 o of the memoran dum states, "Mt*lm·,hifo it hes been decided that, so far as Government is conesrned, the Tannery should be used only for instructional and demon strational purposes with the view of carrying or, the introduction of improved methods of tanning. It is also proposed to improve tho methods of tanning in villages which offers grea t scope for development, by the establishment qf one or more touring demonstration parties." This is quite a new depar ture. Again it is stated, " The question of }oil.sing that portion of · the 'Tannery which is not required !01~ inst.ruction and de:tnonstration depends
- l"That_ the total grant be recluced by Re. l." (To discuss .the polio,r ofthe Governmet regarding tbe Shah dar a Tannery and Demon. - · etrafaon Weaving Fiict·ory at Shahdara.)
The motion was carried.
AGRICULTURE GRANT.
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh:: Sir, I beg to move-> " That a.. supplementary sum not exceeding RE. 6,223 he granted to the Punjab Govern·
. ment (Minist.ry of Agriculture) to defray the charges that will come in course of 'Payment Ior the year ending the 31st of lharch 1928 in respect of ..Agriculture."
I!UNJAB l,E(}UILUIVE · OOUNCIL, 1150.
G fl
GOVBRNIIBNt•s Dll~AND8 '.l'OR BUP:PLDENT.A.RY AND 41)D1TIONAL llSl GaANTS, 1927 -28.
on the offel'l1 received in reply to the advertisement which Government has published." Thus everything seems to be new and there is nothing old. I do riot know how my honourable friend says that it is all old. It is a policy which they ate going to adopt for the first time. We do not know when they change their policies. As soon as the money is granted they may again change their policy to-morrow. There is no end to that. Unless the policy is before us and is thoroughly discussed we should not grant the de· mand, I therefore submit that my amendment is in order.
Mr. President: I think the Honourable Minister will concede that he is proposing to extend the industry of tannery to villages ; is it not so ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: If you will kindly rood para graph 5 on page 16, you will see it is stated, " In order to keep down expendi ture as far as possible during the current year it is not proposed to employ the rural demonstration staff till 1928-29." So all that we want to do is to carry on within the narrowest limits the work of instruction already in hand at Shahdara and not anything new. ·
Mr. President : On that view, I think, the amendment is not in order. Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq: Then, I will move for the total re-
jection of the demand. · When they originally started this tannery they made a declaration
saying that they were going to impart wonderful knowledge of tanning in this province, which they bad not done up to this time. The Government usually blames private corporations and municipalities for not carrying on their work properly ; but if you look at the work done by this department of the Government, you will find that they have done absolutely nothing: Up to this time this province has suffered a loss of about 5 or 6 lakhs of rupees on account of this business, and if they now close the business we will have to in cur a loss of 9 or 10 lakhs .. A tannery has been built up which under the pre· sent circumstances has no demand at all ; it is not worth the land on which it is built up. We know that there have been two or three tanneries in the Punjab which have stopped working because there is dearth of leather. If the tannery is a paying concern, is it likely that others who owned tanneries would have closed them down'! There was a tannerv in Amritsar built by a private gentleman a.t a. cost of 2 lakhs of rupees an"d it has been closed for the last three years because there is absolutely no demand in the Punjab for the Punjab made things. . · .
There was another tannery at Lahore which, I think, was opened by the Deputy President of this House. ~at was also closed down. · Then there was a tannsrv at Wazirabad that could not work and hall to close down. Ji, spite of th; far.t that there is no tannery in the Punjab which could employ tar-ners this Model Tannery n.t Shahdara is going on training men for working in tanneries. Where is the need of training mP11 when there is no demand for such meD? Then, Sir, this Tannery at Shahdara. has during the Iast five or six years been able to train only three men. Just fancy! we have spent some five or six Iakhs of rupees simply to train three men. W!3 are told that these men have received one lecture a week or four lectures a month. To spend so much money in order to be able to give four Iectures a month to three men is, in my opinion, sheer waste. We have been told
"
MISCEL-LANEOUS (R~BERVED) GRANT. lbe ~ ~~~~)~ Mia~ ~ir f~H-ffysai~ (Revenue ~a.rub.er) : , · Si;I ~,.~, ·- .. ' . .
. "1'lm\i?;~~~?fh"! ~1i:irJ! ::r~t1c~Ji;I~tte11:it~!:'e;~1~!tr;!3 ~1a1i: tit~ alitti Qf ,M,,i.rch }928 in resp¢ct oUl~lanoons (Rel!erved).'' - . · · · ·
!Ilhe motion was carried,
[iha.ikh. Muba~~d. ~diq.] .. . . . . . .. ~,G£1vij~~·t ~~t'.t~i·~.~-~~i~g th~~~~ o~ cl<>iing d9~;tb1 TimMry~. ~µt w~ ~ ~()~ ~Oft 'Y~l 'G0iyel1-\W,~nt .~· e9st.p,opll.}g 4DNJg .so, 4fl~e ~~sHJ~~cµ 1'7'a ~ere. tp~~ t\1i~l th~ school woqld be closed by the \et.o..f (jptc;>b,IJ:,;,,n~µ ~r~emhm~ri~t th~ fo;i;~r Mint~t~r in. charge 9(Indu.a~rJ.~~ falp. ffi0 t~a.tJ1e.w~s ae;r;ioµsly tbw,king Qf .Y\lld.ing up the wh?Je. b_~:m.e)!:l!t·. '];ha~ was eig4~e~11 ~pnt13s ~go, and tllo~gll Gqverrur,ien,t p,ndes 1tseU·w acting more quickly. th~ ~urs.elv:ei!, we w:i,d th~t it has QS~ll very, Yet;y slow ~~ a.c~in~ i? this lll~tter. What is the reason ? S.om~ \~J,r. th~\ \hose employed in t~~ T~nrwry will go o\}t of job a.,s (t is difficult fw; (l~yen;n~nt to find employment for· them. I am sure Qovewm~t can cwate, some other jobs for these men. But to inflict this loss on the industry of the Pnnjl\b and to give a bad name to the Industries Department of the Province by putting on its shoulders a thing which is going to bo a miser a:bl,e failure, I think it is against the interests of the Provines. For this reason, Sir, I strongly oppose any demand being granted for this purpose,
'-1:'hen, SiJ,"1 I have a. ~ew remarks to make a1:1 re&,a.nl.~ t~\:l. w,or.~g of the Weaving Factory. We all know that Wfli'IVWg, factorissiq Jncy}) ar~ in a sQd plight. We find the industry in Ahmedabad at a standstill. They have been asking for Government grants or subsidies or some kind of pro ileet.ion. I want to lmow what kind of work ls going to be taught to the students of this school. We find that in this Province we cannot make a iru~ess of weaving industry unless we teach jacquardy or flower designs'. -
T~~ ~~-t,~e, 1\-lr. Me.Aobar ~ : We are starting tha t. Shaikh ¥ahammad Sadiq: I am very glad Government is going to
s~rt jaequardy, I think every penny that we spsnd on weaving should be spent on teaching jacquardy work. In Japan they are ~a king great progress with jacqnardy, so also in China, The Honourable Minister for Industries should know that the boys trained in the Weaving Factory have not, the capital to start ordinary looms after they have passed out of bhe Factory. Th.ey may be able to do so after seven or eight years when the Mandj Hydro E-lectric scheme is in operation. It may be possible at that time for such people to start that work, but until such time I think the only way to spend the money properly is to spend it on teaching jscquardy. , ' ", · ·
Mr. President : The question is- '.' Th,~,a,n_a,fditipna.l ~tJm,npt e~p.!lf!cling.~s.. 72,~3 be gra.n¥ t.o. tb,e.~aj_~l! Govfl~ment
_· (M~riistry Qf. ~d~cl\tion) to ~fra,y't~~ chit:~e~ t~itft ~ll (l.o~~ 1p. ~~r~e o( ~~we !lt fortlre:year ending t"he 3ht of Ma.rob l9281n i:'e!lpeot oHnd~~tnes/'
'.Che motion was o~rried. : • ·. . : ~ ' ) . . . ~ ~; - ~ • : . f. '
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, . 9~v~~ WqaK,S_ (TR~N~_F_'E,~~o), GR,~~·r. · -.- . 1- ~~-~(•b.14 .S.a;i:~r J9geo•~ -~g~ (tFi;ii~~-~r f~r,- 1\gp,°9Fltµt~l;
· S»;, I beg to n;iove- . · . . . . . __ . . . . . . "~at an ~dditional sum not exceeding 1¥- 4,2_8,o;m. be ~11-te~ to tl,te_ Pttjli~~. ~vm, ..
.• · tn,ent (Miniet.ry c,f Agricul~ure) to defray tlie. charges ~h~~ 'ru.1 cwp.e in_ ~oyJ.lle ~ · · paytl).ent lvr tl,e y_et.r' e9dit1g the 3_l~t of March l9~8 in ieepec't of C'fvii ·W1:1t:Jti
·~Trii.ll.sfe:tred).''- . ·. · · , - · .., .. -~~· P-r~de.qt : The question 1~ :
." T~\l,t a.JJ a.dditiop.al 13Gm not: e_x;ecedi.ng Rs. 4,28,()aO be granted ~ tM. Punjab 09I~rn Dient (Minie.~ry o~ ,\griculture) to defr~y the charges that will coine 'in cool'Be of paynienf'tor tho yen.rending the 31st of ::Vuirch 1928 in respect of Civil' ~'s (Tral\!lferted)/' . · · ' ·:•
- Shai\h Muha~mad Sadiq ( Amritsar City (Muhammadanj] (Urban) : Sir, we fincl that fort he fast two J03.tS oar expenditure on roads has increMed by leaps and bounds. I am not opposed a.t H.11 to extension or roads in· the Province, but bofore we extend them we should ex'lminr o,µr own .pB9ket
· snd see whether it. cart hear this extra expenditure, We 1in4 ~µ~t Hi.e e~~- ing roads :i.re in a v17ry bad state <J£rep_f'11r .... _ · · -
The Ho.ooul'•hle Sardar JogencWa $Q~h : Question. Slwkli Muhmmad Sadiq : :M:y learned friend has neyer, been on tJi~.
Amritsar-Lahore Road by car. If_ he had _been, there would have pe~.i;, no question of questioning my statement. Since the Honourable 1li~~,1~r - has never taken the trouble of travelling on the roads of which Ile. isin ~fW.,. I may point out to him that if he ma.koJ a tour in his car sta.rr,ing fr~?H ~!¥19.f9: for Amritsar, he will find the road in a very bad condition. Eye:r:yl;lp~ knows that there is a huge traffic between .~i;nritsar and Lahore a;nd · i.ll~ - track is not broad enough to cope with . the traffic. Every o-:1e who 411;~ been on this road by .oar will bear me out that one meets as IIlany a~ 15Q tjr" 5,~ csrs on the way and that is the reason why the road is so li>~c{ly ~ro~~µ qp1_ Same is the case with the Gurdaspur-Pethankot. road. · N~tµi:ti,l\y, q9~i~ from the heights __ ?f Simla.jhe Ho.µour{\_~le Minister q~ea n~t kt1.9w any~4ing a.b.9-µ_t people living' in the plains. If h.~ were 'to. ip,spoot the roap._s of ,tli!ch he is lll 01¥!,rge, he ~ll ·fiµ~ th.~t 'th~ r90i~~ ~f the ?wijab~ at l~~-~n~~ ~{~~~= sar-~.a~or:~ road at1.d the A~ritsar-Patha.11kot road, are in a y~rY, d~~W.~e~u~:' condition. For Government to spend large sums of money on new. iQSicis when' the old ones are in a bad condition is nothing but usel_ess wa:tte; 'tt is no use making new roads when the old ones are not properly'iooke~·ajter. N e:w i:o~4s should be mads only where there is a real riecessif y for t4~m. B"t whai do 'YO find? '\Ve find that when a 'Deputy Commissioner oi-"~n Executive Engineer goes by car and finds the approach to a. village difficult, he marka it down. for a new road, That sort of thing might have been iforie in th~ days of. Ranjit Singh or of the '1,tughal Empero~s. but ~1?,ol!f( npt"~e , done µi modern days. We have to s~e to the ll~c~ss1iy. If there ts real nece~i~y for a. ~ew ro~d, this Col:lncil will. sa;ncti<>n the' grant ask~d for, 'f>iit on t_be pther \i!l.µ4 if th~ dema.:qd is" o.µJy fanciful a11d based sirqply on the rec~i;nmeµ~ation Qf a Medical Officer, o'r a Minister or a ·nepu'ty ·O<i1?1nii~ sion_0t. or {la Poni.m~ssio,ner, in th~t case the demand should not oe gr1.nt~d. It i~ ll~\'l!SJH'Y to join· ·,big cities, we s},).o~lcl s~pport the grant for ·a Ii~W ro~p bet.v1313:p, tb,e cities. Ta~rn Amr1t~1~r aQd'. }{a.sup. The Hol)-oura:ble l\.fini~ter 1_n charge ha.s never been tI,,~re l):qq ~e nae nev_er 'tli~ught of lin.~g t~e tw<;> ~\ties,
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• v OJ;'v.l~Nlt_:p.:T'iS DEM:4\os FOR sunt~ENTAll'f AND ADnrlfoN.u. OU: . - . . . GRANTS, 1927.28. ·. ,
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[Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq.] at_ least that 'work has not yet been started. One has to do as many as 70 miles to get from one place to the other by the round about way, whereas if a direct road were constructed Amritsar would only be about' 25 miles from Kasur, The honourable gentleman's policy seems to be haphazard. It is not decided on the question of necessity, but on the question of prudence. He has perhaps been urged by some officers, and he has started a new road.
'.Uhen, Sir, there is another point in connection with the way the roads are made. Supposing they have to make a road 40 miles in length. They make about 2 miles a year and complete it in 20 years. It is a most ridiculous system. Long before the road is completed, it begins to break up. Why not take up, say, 20 miles in the first year and finish up the remaining 20 miles in the following year. The present system of doing 2 miles every year amounts to nothing but sheer waste of money.
'Ilhere is yet another ridiculous system about which I wish to say some thing. We find that in certain areas the track is too narrow for the traffic. '.Ilhe present day motor traffic is different from the old system. Six or eight feet of track might have been all right for the old traffic, but it is not so for the present day motor traffic. '.)fake ·the Grand Trunk Road which is the main artery on which hundreds of motor cars ply and there the track is hardly 6 to 8 feet, with the result that when two cars pass each other they have always two wheels on the kutcha road, and the dust that they raise forms beautiful clouds transforming the road between Lahore and Amritsar into a desert of Sahara. I do not know whet.her the eyes of the Department have ever been opened to that complaint, and what action, if any, it is taking. So far as I can see no action is being taken, otherwise the present bad state of roads would not exist. In my opinion it is sheer waste of money if Government goes on making new roads without looking after the old ones.
As regards new roads, if the Honourable Minister so desires let him bring forward his proposals in the budget session. We should know how much money we are going to spend on the whole on roads and how much we are committed to. Evidently because this Council did not move a cut on this demand during the last session, therefore he wants to take advantage of it and accordingly come forward with this demand and expects to get it passed without any cut. I am afraid I must tell this Council that the Minister should not commit it to new expenditure in this manner. The whole system of roads should be completely examined before the Council can commit itself to any expenditure on the same. There are only two or three months when the budget" will be presented and there is ample time for the Minister to. come forward with his proposals for new roads then. After all he is. not going to have these new roads within these two or three months. After all, what is . the use of constructing these new roads ? I pressed last time upon the Government for the opening of orphanages and for the institution o_f insur aneo schemes and old age pensions. Why has not Government come for~ wa.rd with proposals on these subjects ? If money is not going to be spent on hospitals, orphanages, &c., what is the use of building new roads upon which the poor people will not be able to walk. What is the use of havi~ beautiful ll\16talled roads for camels, kaohhars and donkeys ?
PUN'JAB LB GISLATIVll COUNOlli,. 1154
Besides, in Australia they have got a machine for levelling kuecha roads, probably the Public Works Department of the Punjab never heard of it.
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: We have got it. 'Ilhey are working in the Punjab.
Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq: Probably it may be in the museum. , I have never seen one myself in the Amritsar district. (At this stage Rai Bahadur Lala Rattan Chand interrupted.) Probably it was during a mela, Unfortunately I do not go to the meia. · I want that there should be a machine which should level all kuccha roads in the villages, We are already spending a lot of money on pucca roads for the use of rich people. We should not do this until we have satisfied the poor zamindars with good roads for them selves. Ever since this Council was inaugurated the Honourable Minister has never asked for money to improve the 'roads in the villages and yet my learned friends from the villages have never raised their voice against this. I am sure to-day they will vote with me and tlwow out this demand because the money asked for ·is not -to improve t,he kuccha roads in the villages.
Sayad Muhammad Husain [Montgomery, (Muhammadan) (Rural)], (Urdu) : Sir, it seems that the honourable member who has just preceded ine is labouring under a serious misunderstanding. I should take this opportunity to remove it. It has been contended by the honourable member that the roads are not constructed primarily to remove public inconvenience. I have been a member of the Communications Board for some years and can say with some authority that this statement is erroneous. The honourable member seems to be of opinion that attention is paid to the condition-of only
·,those roads which do not afford facility of travel to the officers who generally go touring through the different districts of the Province. As to this I dare say that there is not much truth in it. The Communications Board does not sanction the constr1rntion of any road until a general scheme of construe tion is formulated after having consulted the general plan o:f the proposed roads of the Province. 'Ilhere are two classes of roads firstly, the arterial roads, that is to say the most important roads which connect important places. The expenditure on these roads is met from the provincial revenues and the question of selecting a particular road for construction is thoroughly
. discussed in the Communications Board before the actual work is taken up. The other class of roads which receives the attention of the Communications Board is what is technically known as secondary roads. For the construe· tion of these roads grants-in-aid are given to District Boards, and preference is given to the more important roads in this category .in the same manner as is done in the case of arterial roads. It is the duty of Government to link different important places in the new canal colonies by means of roads and afford facilities of communication thereby to those who have purchased lands, and laboured hard to make them prosperous and fertile. 'llhe Gov· ernment have realised crores of rupees by the sale of these lands and the poor cultivators of the same have a right to demand from Government a small amount of money out of this for connecting that particular part of the Province with the rest or the country. The honourable member has further stated that roads are constructed for the benefit and use of the rich. This assertion is also equally unfounded. When a toad connecting two com mercial towns is constructed the poor are sure to derive some benefit from it
GOVERNMENT'S DEMANDS FOB SUPPLEMENTARY AND ADDITIONAL 1155 GRANTS, 1927-28.
[Sayad Muhammad Husain.] by bringing for instance, their produce to market plases without the least· delay and selling it at profitable rates. The construction of roads in the Nili Bar before the. lands were actually sold, was due to the same consideration.
, Sir, take another instance. There are people who are earning a good deal by plying motor taxies on different roads in the Province. They are poor people and we cannot class them with the rich and therefore the contention of
· the honourable member falls to the ground. Besides, the construction of · roads has proved beneficial in another way. Most of the third class railway
passengers prefer travelling by lorries because they find it inconvenient to· travel by railway. On account of the daily increase in the motor traffic the railway authorities have realised that they cannot dictate their own terms to the public and that it is their duty to afford comfort and convenience to them. In my opinion the construction of the roads is essential for the general development and progress of the Province. In conclusion I hope the honourable member will be satisfied with the explanation I have given and will not oppose the demand.
(At this stage Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq rose to reply). Mr. President : The honourable member did not move the amend
meat, He .discussed the principle underlying the demand which he wishes to be negatived. · He has done so and has no right of reply.
· 1.llhe question is- ~; That a.n additional sum not exceeding RI!. 4;28,030 be granted tc the P~njab Govern
ment (hiniatry of Agriculture) to ddrny the cJ1111gls that will ct me in ccurse of payment for the year ending the 3111t of 1'lairh 1928 in respect of Civil Wo1la (Transferred)." ·
The motion was carried. ~e Council then adjourned till 2 P.M. on Tuesday, the 2~d November,
1927.
[21sT Novs. 1927. l>UNJA.13 Li:GISLATIVlii COUlirClL. . 1156
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RAJPUTS OF VILLAGE RATHAUR.
_ -W.U. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state-
.( a) whether it is a fact that Ra.jputs olvillage Rathour, district Am• bsla, are proclaimed to be members of criminal tribes ;
{b) whether it is a fact that all the inhabitants of the adjoining villages sent a memorial to the Government to the effect that the Raj. puts of Ratbaur are honest people ;
_(a) whether it ia a fact that the memorialists also complained against the Sub-Inspector for being anxious to register the Rajputa aa members ot the criminal tribes ;
(d) whether it is a fact that police sent several Rajputs of villagt Rathaur, district Amba.la, to the Amritsar Reformatory ;
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STARRED QUESTIONS AND A~SWERS. QuTAB Drx, HEAD CoNSTABLB.
*620. Cbaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state-
(a) whether he is aware of the public opinion· in Ludhiana tha.t Qutab Din, Head Constable, who was bold enough to unveil the doings of his officers was given ex:e:npJary punishment ;
·(b) whether the Government, in order to remove this · suspicion; ·it-~ considering the advisability. of enquiring into the allegarions · the said head constable made in his case diaries b:v a disin- terested officer from any other district ? ·
''fhe Honourable Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency.: (a) No. -.fb) No.
I
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'.Uhe following member was sworn in :- Honorary Lieutenant Sardar Baghbir Singh, O.B.E., Amritsar (Sikh), Rural.
OATH OF OFFICE.
-~ J I
PUNJAB LlDGISLATIVE 0011.NCIL. 2Nn SESSION OF '.DRE 8Rn PUNJAB LEGISLA'IJIVB COUNCIL.
Tueaday, the 22nd November, 1927. The Council met at the Council Chamber at two of the clock,
llr. President in the Chair.
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-*622. Claaudhri Afzal Haq: (a) Has it come to the notice of the Honourable the Finance Member that allegations have been made by pro minent Hindu leaders .and in the Hindu press that the recent attacks on Raj-pal and Swami Satyanand are the result of some conspiracy?
(b) If so, did the Government start any investigations to trace out the conspirators ? i -
(c) Did the police take the statement of any of the Hindu leaders in this connection ?
(d) Has the police invited the co-operation of the Hindu leaders in tracing the conspiracy ?
(e) What has been. the result of the investigations so far?
(j) If no investigation is started ood no co-operation of the Hindu leaders is invited so far, does the Government propose to start the investiga tion and to invite the co-operation -of the Hindu leaders now?
· ·The Honourable Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency: (a) Yes.
(b}, (c), (d), (e), (!). Careful enquiries conducted undeztha instructions of Government. as to the. existence of an alleged conspiracy have failed to reveal any evidence which would support the allegation of a conspiracy.
INVESTIGATION INTO THE ALLEGED CONSPIRACY ro ATTACK HI:\'DU LEADERS.
\ . . . (e) whether it is a fact that the Reformatory officers of Amritsar·
are of opinion that the Rajput~ of Bathaur have absolutely no criminal tendencies ;
{j) whether ' the Gcvernment is considering the advisability of abstaining from proclaiming the Rajputs of Ratba.ur as mem bers of -eriminal tribes ?
,t'he rHwoutable - Mian Sir Faal-i-Haseb; : (a) Seventeen Rajputs of village Bathaur in the Ambala district have been notified as members of criminal tribe under section 8 of Act VI of 1924.
(b) No. (c) Kot so far as Government is aware.
(d) Twelve registered members were removed to the Amritsar Reiorma tory ~ft01.· necessary inquiries had been made by the District Magistrate.
(e) No definite opinion relating to their behaviour has yet been expressed by any such officer.
(!) No. Each case of a member of this tribe displaying criminal ten· dencies will be considered individually on its merits.
[Chaudhri Afzal Haq].
[22ND Nova, 1927· PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNClL, 1158
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) A fracas took place be tween the Hindu and Muslim students of the Government Intermediate College, Hoshiarpur, on the night of the 13th October 1927 and not on the 15th October.
(b) On the 13th October at about 4 P.M. Hassan Lal of .the. III Year Class was entering the Hostel gate with his · bicycle as· Muhammad Sadiq of the 2nd Year B was coming from the other side. · Muhammad Sadiq pushed, aside the bicycle in order to pass out. On this the two quarrelled, until from banter they came to blows. A .Sikh student happened to come-
{ at the time and parted them.
Later in the evening at about 8 P.M. Muhammad Sadiq sought out Bussan Lal in the room of Rabindra Nath. Sadiq was not alone this time. He 'had one or two other students with him, while about a dozen waited out. Sadiq is said to have addressed Bussan Lal with a taunt and then
·dragged him out of the room. All the 12 or 15 Muhammadan boys tell on him and gave him blows. But soon the noise brought other boarders and Bussan Lal was let go. This action on the part of Muhammad Sadiq in persuading other Muslim boys to join him called for the interference of the hostel Superintendent, who immediately went to the Principal's house to report as the trouble was now assuming a very unpleasant aspect.
Consequent on ihe fracas at 8 P.M. Hindu and Sikh students gathered at about 10 _P • .M. and with fuel sticks, gatkas or hockey sticks in their hands challenged the Muhammadans outside their dormitory. ·']he Muslim students, however, did not come out. mhe Superintendent appeared on the scene and the Hindu and Sikh boys were dispersed and their sticks confiscated.
'Ilhe Principal was informed and he arrived at about 10-80 P.M. and made a personal investigation examining different groups of students. Next day the Warden was asked to make a more detailed enquiry. The Principal.
112
. *f23. Chaudhri ~zal Haq: Will the Honourable Minister for Edu
cation be pleased to state-'
{a) whether it is a fact that on the night of 15th October a fracas took place between Hindu and Muslim students of Intermediate College, Hoshiarpur ;
(b) the facts of the case ; · (c) the number of Hindu and Muhammadan students, respectively,
in the College ;
(d) whether on the night of 15th October some of the students abused: and threatened the Superintendent of the boarding house;
{,.,,) what action, if any, the Principal has taken against this law lessness of the students ?
Fa.,cAs BE'l'WEEK Hrxnu A:t-<D MusLIM STUDENTS OF INTERMEDIATE · ·. · COLLEGE, HosRIARPUR •
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
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RESOLUTIONS PASSED BY THE SECOND LEGISLATIVE CouNOIL.
*625. Chaadbri Afzal Haq : Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to .furnish a statement showing-
(1) the resolutions passed by the Second Legislative Council;
(2) the dates on which they were passed ; and
(3) the action taken on them ?
SucHA Srnou, ooxvror IN FKROZEPORE J An,.
*624. Chaodhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Finance :¥ember· be pleased to state-
( a) if it is a fact that one Suehs Singh, convict, who was undergoing his term of imprisonment in Ferozepore jail, was prosecuted at Ludhiana in. another case against him in the District Judge's Court;
(b) i£ it is a fact that the said Sucha Singh was acquitted in t.P,e second case and in spite of being a convict was allowed to slip away;
(c) whether any action was taken against any police officer for neg- · · leet of duty ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : Information is being collected and it will be communicated to the ,honourable member as soon as possible.
(d)t:No. One student was, however, rude to the hostel Superintendent.
(e) The honourable member is referred to the reply given to (b) above.
Mr. President s I may suggest that, to save time, lengthy answers to starred questions should be circulated with the offiaial repor~ instead of being given orally.
99 167
{c) Hindu Muslims
Muhammad Sadiq, and two other Muhammadan students (believed to be ringleaders among those who had attacked Hussan Lal) were fined and similarly three Hindu and Sikh students (believed to be ringleaders) were also fined, and the sticks of all Hindu and Sikh students, who had prepared for an attack, were eonfis cated,
[lion. Mr. Manobar Lal]. Warden and the Superintendent concurring in their conclusions the following punishments were awarded :-
Hussan Lal, warned,
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL [22ND NoVB.1927. 1160
.. ,_: _I·\.
The Governor in Cooncil after full eon sidera.tlon decided to defel' genera.I ac tion on twa resolution; hut subsequently certain exemptions have been allowed by the Government of India. on the recom mendation of the local Government.
The Governor in Council decided after full eoneideration to t~ke no aotion.
This Council recommends to tbe Govern ment that a committee of three be ap pointed to tour the villages in the south western Punjab to examine the claims of money-lenders again~t cultivators when the partiea agreE. to this course and to arrive at sums which they are actually able to pay ·within a reasonable time. Buch Committee to consist of (a) Judge with insolvency powers, (b) a representa tive of cultiva.tors and (e] a representa.tive of bankers. (5th .Jfarch 192-i).
4
Since the 1924 resolutdon further · geologi oal investigations have been made re. garding the Bhakra Dam and a Special, ist from America wit,h a Senior officer of the Irriga tion Branch. and two· Geologists have been appointed a.s a. Committee to report to Government on the Bhakra Dam . from the geological and engineering aspect. This. report i& expected to be submitted to Govern· ment by the end of January 1928. The Thal Project has been postponed for the present and cannot be taken up until the controversy· with ·the Government of. Bombay regarding the utilization of the water of Indus bas been settled.
This Council rocommends to the Govern ment tha.t the construction of Bhakra Dam be taken in hand as soon as the construc tion of the Thill Project has sufficiently advanced to admit of the work on this Project being undertaken subject to the proviso that the Council votes money, and that the project should be found suft. able from the Engineering and the financial point of view and bas received tho sanction of the Government of India. (28th February 1924 ).
·3
The Univereity hae been a.sked ·to eecon aider the proposed regulation ; but th~ Syndicate has informed Government that it adheres to its decision. Go¥ern ment has again expreased the hope that the decision may be n,oomid&h)d.
Th&t this Council recommends to the Gov ernment that the new University regula tion proposed by the Punjab University introducing 'Edu!',ation' a.a a profes Bi.onal and theoretical 11u bject in tho B. A. COUl'Se, be not a pproved, (28th. February 1924).
2
The Tahsil of Narowal baa been re-tamed. That this Council recommends to the Ool'eJ'llment that the TahsU at Narowal be retained in that town until the end of the financial year 1924,25. ( 6tli J a111"J,., 192'}.
1
Actiou t&keu. Terms of Beeolution passed or promise made,
This Council recommends to the Govern ment to recommend to the Government of India that they may take early steps to exempt the sword from the operation in the Punjab of the Arms Act with regard to all the ret1trictions contained therein. (11th Marcll 1924).
r
· Mr. H. W. Emerson: A statement is laid on the tabla: Statement ahowing resolutic~pa.uea by ·the Second Punjab Legiilali~ Oouncit
and udwn taken thert.on.
1161 BTAJi.RED QUEST!Ol'iS A:N~ ANSWERS,
The Governor in Council accepted the recommendation and the necessary orders were issued in · Punjab Government notification No. 27690, dated Ioth December 1024.
................
A copy of. the resolution was forwarded to the Government of India for transmission to the proper quarters.
'!'his Council has heard with extreme regret · the sad news of the sudden deeth of the Right Honourable E. S. Monta.gu,- Iato Secretary of Sta.te for India, the origina. tot· and propounder of the present scheme of reforms, whose name will ever be remem bered by future generations of India. with feelings of profound gr11otitude and esteem. The House expresees its sincere sympathy and condolence on his death and recom mends to the Government to convey to Mrs. Montagu a.nd the family, the sympathy of the House on the sad and irreparable lOBS sustained. by the family of the deceased, this country and the Empire. (17th November 1924).
10
The Governor in Council accepted the recommendation and a dub now exisful.
After the 1924 resolution was passed a. sum of Rs. 36,11,761, was temporarily lent by the Punjab Government to the Bahawalpur State to meet its share of expenditure on the Sutlej Valley Pro ject in 1923-24. This amount was re raid and adjusted under the authority of the Government of India in 1924-2i.i; and eince then the Government of India have been financing the Bahawalpur State so for ~.8 expenditure in connection with the Sutlej Vn.Jley Project is con «ornerl .
.8· This Council recommends to the Govern- I The Govarnor in Council decided after ment tho.t Maulvi Zafar Ali Khan be re- \ foll considcratton tha.t the recommenda- leased forthwith unconditionally. (4th tion should not be accepted. AugU8t 1924).
Thie Council recommends to the Governor in Council tha.t a. residential club
=-be provided in Lahore for the use of , -membere. of _the Punjab Legislative ,--Oouneit (13th November 1924).
This Council recommends to the Govern ment that a loan not exceeding Rs. 51) lakhs a.t-~e rate of interest not less tha.n that pa.id ·by- Punjab Government on its bor rowings be made to the Bahawalpur
· Darba.r for construction of the Dar bar's portion of the S.utlej Valley Project, and tb~t the Punjab Government should, if necessary, raise the sum required by means of Increasing the Punjab Ioan for I 924 from l ! crores to 2 croros. ( 24cth ,'\{arch 1924).
' f '
The Governor in Council decided to rahle no loans in the Punjab that year, be. cause money could be obtained from the Govemment of India. at half per cent. less than the interest rate, which worud probably be necessary for a loan. The finance of productive works is a part of the Government's policy of development and has been steadily pushed on.
That this Council recommends to Govern ment to raise during the year 192t-25 a. loan of· Rs. ·1,~;00,000 for the purpose of J)J'ovid.ing funds for the construction of Irriga.tion Works Capital Expenditure and other productive projects approved by the Council. (6th March 19U).
&rial No. Action takC'n. Terms of Resolution passed or promise made,
This Council recommends to the Govern .. ment, the.t the right conferred by notifio,i.
', tion No. 21320 ofthe 1st September 1924, on the non-official members of the Standing Committee of the Legislative Council for jails of visiting four specified jails be ex-
., tendedto all jaile or at least to all jails in which political, AkaJi or Khilafat prisoners
-~~ I~g!ld, (200. No11~ 19U)._ ..
11 1 I
[22ND Nova, 1927· PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1l_~i
[Mr. R. W. Emerson.]
~~·-- ., --···~ .. ._..,....,._-. '" --- .
Since 1925 the practice has been to ap point non-official members of the St.and· ing Committee on jails as JlOil·Ofticial visitors of all jails in the Punjab ( except the Female Jail, Lahore). It is not proposed to extend the scope of ... experiment to all non-official memben of the Council.
Government accepted the guarantee,
The Governor in Council after careful consideration decided to t.e.ke ne action on the resolution. ·
16
This Council recommends the acceptance by Government of an annual guarantee of Rs. 11, 770 (subject to revision when actual coat of construction is known) for a period of five years on account of the proposed extension of the Lahore-Multan Trunk Telephone line to Karachi. ( 5th March 1925).
J 4 This Council recommends to the Govern ment that the indemnity realised from the inhabitanta and municipal committee of Gujranwala under the Police Act {V of 18~1) in 1919 may be refunded. (3rd March 1926).
The Governor in Council after full con sideration was unable to a,ceept· this resolution.
Thia Council recommends to the Governor in Council that the non-official members of the Punjab Legislative Council be made non-official visitors of the jails within their respective constituencies, ( 4tk De cetnber 1925).
HI
This Council recommends to the Governor in Council to withdraw its notifications Noa. X. I. R. I. to X. 8. R. I., published in the Punjab Gazeue · · Extrac,rainary of · October 3, ·1924; prescribing with effect from the Kharif of 1924, new schedule of oocupier's rates for the chief canals in the Punjab and direct instead of colleetiotr : of abiana at the rates prevailing before April 1924. (24tk N<memher 1924).
This Council recommends to the Govern. I The Gov~rnor in Council decided t.hat1a.nd ment tha.t it should invariably offer land should be offered instead of· cash pro- in exchange for any land required in future vided- under the Land Acquisition Act, and that (ri) that land is available for the gtant; compensation in cash should he awarded and only in cases where persons concerned re- (b) that the land acquired from any fuse to accept land in exchange. (l 71k one person, January 1925). ( i) beam a reasona bly large _ pro-
portion to tne amount of land still left to him. or
( ii) affects in an a pprecia ble degree the possibility o1 bis making his livelihood out of the land, or
(iii) exceeds Rs. 4,000 in value. This decision docs not apply ta urban lands or save in exceptional circumstances to lands in the dose vicinity of a town or mandi, ·
Action taken. ·&na1· No. Terms of Resolution passed or promise made.
12
STARRB-D · QUJi:STl~NS . .AND · ANSWBRS,
, *626. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased to state whether under the Compulsory Primary Education Act, private institutions were given the option of applying the Act within the sphere of their operation as determined by the local bodies and sanctioned by the Government ? If so, how many private institutions have availed themselves of this option? ·
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The honourable member 11eema to be under a misapprehension as regm,ds private institutions under 'lhe Primary Education Act, 1919. The Act only applies to areas, but l
· maf Eifata for the information of the honourable member that wherever compulsion has been introduced by a local body all privately managed
·scho~ls in the area have willingly accepted the position. Upto this time there has not been to my knowledge a single case where a private body has pro· tested or otherwise complained against it, though compulsion bas up-to-date bten introduced in a large number of urban and rural areas.
CoMPur.soRY ·PRIMARY EnucATION AcT.
The recommendation was accepted by th~ Punjab Government and the Govel'Dlllent of India, vilk amendment in tho Indian. Arms Rules, 1924, published with Gov ernment of India, Home D~partment, (Police), notification No. F-2l{IX/2'1- datedthe 10thMarchl927.
l~ Thia Council recommends to the Govern ment to take necessary steps to exempt the following elasses of men from the res triction, In ·the matter of keeping swords in the Province :-
(11) all jagirda.rs, (b) those who pay Rs. oOas land revenue, (e) all income-tax payers,
·--- - - - (cl) tiUe·holders, (e) Government servants drawing a
salary of over RI,, 2 50 per mensem, (/) retired military men of a nd a bove the
rank ofJemadar. (23rd Oefol:,u 1926).
the necessary amendment of the Ele<itotal. rules has been made.
The sex disqualification has been remoYed and i:egulations In connection therewith have been framed.
Thie <Jouncil recommends to the Govern· ment 80 to amend the Punjab I.egislatiTe COUllcil Electoral Rules as to remove the eez disqualification In the matter of regis tration on the electoral roll of person!! who are entitled to vote in the elections held for the Punjab Council. (7th DteffilhEr 1923).
... 1.,
I ___ j Action tabn.
This Council rcccmmsnds to Govern ment that the Punjab Electoral Rnle11 be 10 amended as to remove the sex disquali ticat.ion in the matter Qf election or nomi-
- nation of women as menibere of the Punjab Legi&la tive Council. (21st Oclob" 1926).
Term, of resolution passed or pronrl.e made.
18
(22ND NoVB. 1927.-- PUNJAB LEGIBLATIVlil COUNCIL. 1164
[Mr. II. W. Bmerson.]
'Page 833 ante. si>age 833 ants,
Jr xsr BATAI.
*630. Lala Bodli Raj : With reference to the answer to starred ques tion No. 321,• asked on 19th July 1927, will the Honourable Member for Revenue please state how far the matter has received the consideration of · the Government ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: The matter is stilt under consideration.
GRANT Oil' PROPRIETARY RIGHTS IN LYALLPUR.
*629. Lala Boclh Raj: With reference to the answer to starred ques tion No. 320,t asked on 19th July 1927, will the Honouarble Member for Revenue please state how far the matter has received the consideration of the Government ? • ·
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain : The matter has since been decided and revised rates for the sale of proprietary rights have been sanctioned.
GRANT To MusLrn- RAJPUT Hroa ScHOOL, KALANAUR (RoHTAK).
*628. Cbaudhri Afz-1 Haq : Will the Honourable Minister for Education be pleased to state-
(a} whether it is a fact that Muslim Rajput High School, Kalanaur (Bohtak), has obtained the sanction of the authorities to in-: troduce compulsion within the area of its operation ;
(b) whether it is a fact that the managing committee of that school. . has applied for a liberal grant from the Government to trans-:
late it into practice ; (c) whether the Government is considering the desirability of giving
a liberal grant to the institution for primary education? The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : Enquiries are being made
and a reply will be sent when ready.
CoMPULSOBY PRIMA.BY Eoucu10~ Acr. "'127. Chaud.bri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable Minister for
Education be pleased to state- (a) whether it is a fact that very few private institutions availed
themselves of the "option " of applying the Compulsory Primary Education Aot within their sphere of operations ;
(b) whether it is due to the fact that liberal grant-in-aid was not given to the institutions for the spread ·of compulsory primary education;
{c) whether there is anyotherreason for these institutions not avail ing themselves of that option ?
The Honourable Mr. Manobar Lal: (a) The honourable member is referred to answer to his question No -. 626 ante.
(b) and (e) do not arise,
1163, STARRED QUESTIONS AND .4.NSWERS,
1 Page 834 ante 2Page 910 ante.
REDUCTIO:-. O.F SUBORDIKATES IN ENGINEERING SERVICE.
*633. Lala Bodh Raj : Will tho Honourable Member for Revenue please stat~
(a) if it is a fact that the Superintending Engineer, second Baha walpur Circle, Sutlej Valley Project, has reduced certain sub ordinates in Engineering Service from class A to B ;
(b) the reasons for this action.: (c) if it is a fact that some of the: when 'appointed were taken as
subordinates in A class; (d)- the names of such subordinates as have been reduced from class
A to Class B within the last 12 months ; (e) if the reduction of the said subordinates is under the authority
of letter No. 02965/83-E. I., dated 29th September 1924, of the Chief Engineer or under some other authority;
(j) whether it is a fact that the letter referred to in part (d) above applies to such subordinates as have passed their examination for Engineering from the Engineering School, Rasul ? If so,
PUNISHMEK:r OF OE'FICIALS l~ THE JAIL DEPARTMENT.
. *632. Lala Bodh Raj : With reference to the answer to starred ques· tion No. 397,2 asked on 21st July 1927, will the Honourable Member for Fina.nee please state what further reductions have been made as referred to in part (b) of the answer?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmo.rency: Orders have been issued for the reduction of 3 more Jailers and 7 Deputy and Assistant Jailors .
. Lala Bodh Raj : Wil] the Honourable }[ember please lay on the table ~ hst of persons who have been removed? .
The Hencurabla Sir Gaofftey deMontm!>rency : The names are not yet decided on.
TERMINAL TAx.
. *631. Lala Bodb Raj : With reference to the answer to st~n.6d, ques tion No. 328,l asked on 19th July 1927, will the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Govexnment please state the result of the enquiry?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : The committee has .so fat not sueoeeded in drawing up proposals which will bring in an amount ~f revenue from terminal tax equal to that derived from octroi,
Lala Boclh•Raj : Will the Honourable Minister please state if pro· posals have been received by him from the municipal committee, Multan?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: I have not seen them yet. .
[22ND Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1166
j ·)
I I I
. f
KASUR }!mncrPAL COMMITTEE AC'!D E~Qt:nw Cosrmssrox. *636. Lala Bodh Raj : (i) Will the Honourable ~iinister for Local
Self-Government please state - (a) if it is a iaet that an Enquiry Commission consisting of the Com·
missioner, Lahore, and two non-official members of the Council was appointed to enquire into the alleged failure of the Presi dent and other members of the Kasur Municipal Committee to take effective measures against the spread of cholera ;
(b) what action has been taken on the report of the said Commis sion?
(ii) Will the Honourable Minister please lay on the table the copy of the said report ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) Yes. (b) The honourable member is referred to the Press Communique of
which a copy is laid on the table, (ii) A copy of thl3 report has been placed in the Council library.
1 Page 1006 ante.
MUNICIPAL ELEC'l'ION AT KASUR.
*635. Lala Bodh Raj : wm the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government please state if it is a fact that municipal elections at Kasur were held in August .last and that the name; of the successful candi dates have not been notified in the Gooemmen: Gazette so far ? H so, what are the reasons for the delay ?
The Ho.nourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: Yes. The notifica tion was held up pending examination of the report of the Commission ap pointed to enquire into the circumstances of the outbreak of cholera at Kasur.
MUl,l;lCIPAL COMMITTEE, KASUR.
*634. Lala Bodh Raj : With reference to the answer to starred queg· · tion Ko. 4881 asked on 22nd July 1927, will the Honourable Minister for Local Bolf-Government please lay the report referred to in the answer onthe table ?
The Honouarble Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : The substance of the report receiv cl has been comrm.n ica ted to the honourable member through the Secretary of the Council.
will he please state why those who passed their examination long before the Rasul School was started and who were taken in A Class at the time of their appointment have beau treated under the authority ·of the said letter ? · . ·
The Honourable Mian Sir Faal-i-Husain . It is a fact that some temporary subordinates were erroneously appointed to grade A instead of to grade B and these errors were subsequently rectified. No reduction, how· ever, was made in the pay the subordinates in question were at that time draw· ing, The orders on the subject of appointment to grade A or grade B apply to P,11 subordinates whether they are from the Rasul School or elsewhere.
f.Hon. Malik Firoz Khan, Noon.] Press Communique.
An outbreak of cholera began at Kssur.on the 8th May 1927 and towards the end of the month assumed alsrming proportions; from the 28th May to the 11th· June there were 186 oases, from 12th June to 20th June, 876 · cases. The matter was then brought to the notice of Government and a, notincation was issued under the Epidemic Diseases Act, 1897, eonferringr special powers upon the Deputy Commissioner and the Sub-Divisional Officer; The epidemic was thereafter brought under control ~ from 21st June to 29th June there were 184 cases and the disease finally disappeared on 14th July •. Me&nwhile, however, as a result of the outbreak not only was there heavy mortality in Kasur itself, but the disease spread to the surrounding districts and caused the loss of hundreds of lives. Prom the reports of officers of the Public Health Department it appeared that the severity of the out-. break was largely due to the fsilure of the Municipal Committee of Ks sur to take the advice of the District Medical Officer of Hee Ith and adopt measures which might, st an early stage hr ve prevented the spread of the disease and the results of this failure were so serious that the Punjab Government (Ministry of Local Self-Government) considered the t it was desirable to hold a public enquiry to establish the extent to which the Municipe l .Com mitteewe s in fact, if at all, culpable. A. Commission was accordingly ap pointed consisting of the Commissioner of Lahore as Chairman and Sir Muhammed Iqbal, M.L.C., and Lala l\foh~n Lr.I, l\LL.C., as members. 1'be Commission met at Kasur on the 19th August and recorded evidence and another meeting was held l\t Labore on the 10th when certain members of the Kasur Municipal Committee put in supplementary statements and made representations. The report of the Commission, which wns unanimous., was forwarded to Government on the 5th September.
2. 'I'he Commission finds that though in respect of certain matters the Municipal Committee cannot bo blamed for failing to adopt measures: recommended to it as it hed not the necessary statutory powers, it was guilty of serious neglect in respect of three matters :-
(a) On the 18th )fay the District Medical Officer of Health recom mended that all the wells in the municipr.I area. should be disinfected within s week. Within the week, however, only 71 were disinfected, while by the end of June (when control had been largely taken out of the hands of the committee) over 700 were dealt with. The Commission considers that in view of the urgency of the situation the Municipal Committee was seriously to blame for the delay in carrying out the District Medical Officer's instructions.
(b) On the 18th June the District Medical Officer of Health asked that. · the ice factory should be closed, and that the soda-water
factory should either be closed or made to use boiled water only. The ice factory was not dosed and, in view of the fact that bacteriological examination revealed that it was, seriously infected by filth bacilli, failure to do this was in the Commission's opinion a serious defect.
(c) On the 18th May the District Medical Officer of Health advised -""-, that the refuse, which was collected in heaps all over the town..
[22ND NoVR. 19'27- PUNIAB Ll!IGIBLATIVJil COUNCIL. 1168
_____ .,....._.,...,...,_,.~.....,....,' ~ , .. -n, ·'""""'· '"·':."'' "'" .. "' '.
Director, Information Bureau, P.icnjab• ·19th N()'l)ember Hl27.
should be burnt or that lime should be thrown o.o iii. The Municipal Committee met on the 20th May and passed the reso lution that the Medical Officer of 'Health's instructions should be carried out ; no instructions were, however, issued for the burning of the refuse, but on the' contrary on the 1st June directions w.ere given for the removal of the refuse. The committee met again on the 2nd June and two members urged that the refuse should be burnt at once: this, however, was not sanctioned. The matter came up again on the 10th June and the committee again refused to have the .rubbisa burnt. The Commission considers that it is probable that the refuse was the exciting cause of the spread of the disease and the advice to burn it which· was pressed on the committee by some of its own members also, was not a precaution which the committee had any right to disregard. By neglecting to burn it the committee preferred its income to its responsibility fol' preservation of human life and was, therefore, in the opinion of the Commission guilty of a grave neglect of duty.
3. 'I'he Commission desires to except from its general condemnation of the conunittee the President, Khan Sahib Sardar Muhammad Bhahbaz Khan, who did his best to induce the committee to carry out the- measures recommended to it and Messrs. Dev Raj, Jaini, Harbhagwsn Das and Gok.al Chand, members, who supported the proposals of the District Medical Officer
· of Health as to the burning of the rubbish. 4. The Punjab Government (Ministry of Local SeU-Government)
have accepted the findings of the Commission and consider the dereliction of duty by the committee so serious that they have ordered the seat'3 of
-members who are not exonerated by the Commission to be vacated. Mean= wlu1e, however, fresh elections have been held and the following members
-of the old committee have been re-elected r-« ·M. Rahim Bakhsh, M. Hidayat IDlah Khan. M. Sardar Ali Khan. Khan Sher Nawab Khsn; M . Muhammad Shafi. :u. Khushi Muhammad. M:. Muhammad Amin Gora. Lala Labha. Ram,
The Punjab Government (Ministry of Local Self-Government) have accordingly also passed orders sanctioning under the proviso to section 24 of the Punjab Municipal Act, 1911, the refusal of the Commissioner of the Lahore Division to notify the re-election of these members. Their re-election thus becomes void and under sub-section (2) of section 16 of the Act they will remain disqualified for election unless and-until the Local Government otherwise direct. Government are of opinion, that those who have been shown to have so little sense of the responsibilities of their position, are nc,t fit to be members of a. municipal committee.
L.aRORB: MUZA:}l'FAR KHAN,
STARRED QUBS TION8_ AND .\NSWJIRS.
l Pagea 975-76 ante,
STARTING OF HIGH CLASSES IN SCHOOLS.
"'639. Lala Bodb Raj:. Will the Honourable Minister for Education lay on the table the information referred to in the answer to starred questi~n No. 4271 asked on 22nd July 1927 ?
The Honouo.hle Mr. Manohar Lal : The information is laid on the table.
t_HINDU REPRESENTATION ON KAsuR MuNICIPAL CorrtMI'l'TEE.
*638. Lala Bodh Raj: Will the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government please state -
(a) whether on the Kasur Municipal Committee, there are 4 Hindus as compared with 9 Muhammadans;
. (b) ii it is a. fact that there has been a practice in the past to fill up the two nominated seats one by a Hindu and. the other by a Muhammadan;
(c) if it is a fact that there is a. proposal for taking away the nomi . nated seat of the Hindus? If so, what are the reasons for
such action ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) 'Uhe rules provide for nine Muslim and four non-Muslim elected members. The non-Muslim me~bers may or may not be Hindus.
(b) There are three seats to be filled by appointment, and on the last occasion whai appointments were filled one official, one Muslim and one Hindu were appointed. _
(c) It is understood that the Commissioner contemplates the 'appoint ment of a Sikh instead of a Hindu gentleman, as he considers that Sikh interests should be represented on the committee,
Sardar UjjaCSingh: Will the Honourable Minister kindly state the number of Sikh gentlemen on the Kasur Municipality?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: I understand the num her is nil.
VICE-PRESIDENT, Mul'l'ICIPAL CoM11uTTEE, KASUR.
*637. Lala Bodh Raj: Will the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government please state if itis a fact that a report was made to the Commissioner, Lahore, against the Vice-President, M: unici pal Committee, Kasur, for his not delivering some of the weighing scales for the purchase of .w~h he was entrusted with money by the Committee? Ii so, what ~tion has been taken by the Commissioner on the said report or complaint '?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: A complaint was received by the Commissioner and was sent to the Deputy Commissioner for report.
[22ND N OVR. 1927 • PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1170
The ,Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : (a) Yes.
(b) The Deputy Commissioner, Lyallpur, made personal enquiries into the statements contained in the memorial. He found that some of the - statements are not in accordance with the facts, that in some cases copies of the memorial had been signed by persons who admittedly were ignorant of its contents, and that the agitation was to a large extent artificial. In a few villages of the Lyallpur District, however, the boycott movement at one time threatened to exacerbate communal feeling, and where the objeeta and methods of the propaganda carried out were clearly communal and not economic, and there was an indication that persons were likely to be deli· vered by show of undue influence from dealing with shops ; the Deputy • Commissioner took suitable action to discourage it and to prevent Lambar dars and other village officials :from taking any part in. it. His action appears to have been timely and no complaints in regard to the movement have been received by Government from the Lyallpur District for some time.
*641. Lala Bodb Qaj: Will the Honourable Member for Finance" please 'state if it is a fact that the shopkeepers committee of Lyallpur district submitted a memorial to the Deputy Commissioner, Lyallpur, against the· boycott propaganda carried on by some of the Muhsmmedans in the villages i If so, what action has been taken by the Deputy Commissioner concerned in- order to stop such a propaganda ?
MEMORIAL OF THE SHOP•KEEPERS COMMITTEE OF LYALtPUR DISTRICT.
COMPLAINT AGAINST HEADMASTER, HIGH SCHOOL, KAHROR,
*640. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable Minister for E<lucation please state if any representation has been made by the Hindu Sabha. or the Hindus of Kahrer Paces in }Iultan district complaining against the conduct of the Headmaster of the High School, Kahrer, and the inefficient working or: several teachers. If so, what action has been taken by the authorities in the matter?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Yes. The matter is under enquiry.
(c) Yes.
(d) No.
(b) Yes; advice was given to this effect.
Answer to Question No. 427.
The Hoaourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Yes; a oopy of the cir· cular has now been obtained,
S'.fARRlilD QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
----- ---- ------------ - --- -
D1STURBANOE8 IN MONTGOMERY JAIL.
*&M. Cbaudhri Afzal Haq: (i) Will the Honourable the :Finance :llember be pleased to state-
(a) whether in the month of May last there was a disturbance in Montgomery Jail;
(b) whether it is a fact that about ninety Muhammadan prison· ere were challaned for the charge of rioting, etc. ; '
(c) whether any official was wo~ded in that riot ; (a) whether any Government property was damaged ? .
· (») If the answer to (c) and (a) above is in the negative, will the Honourable Member be pleased further to sta.te-
(a) whether it is a fact that all the prisoners were sentenced from four to six years' rigorous imprisonment;
(b) whether the Government is considering the advisability of lodging an appeal on behalf of these prisoners against such heavy sentences?
The HonolQ'able Sir· Geollrey de.Montmol'eiicy: (i) (a) Not J n ~a.y but from April 22nd to 26th.
Co:t.rPULSORY PRIMARY EDUCATION A.CT.
*643. Chaudbri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased to state the conditions which are generally imposed upon .those institutions by the Government and district boards which apply for sanction to introduce Compulsory Primary Education Act within the areas of their operation ?
The Honourable Mr. Manobar Lal : '.lfue Honourable Member's attention is invited to the answer to question No. 6261.
LOCAL ALLOWANCE TO POLICE SUB-INSPECTORS.
*842. Lala Bodh Raj: Will the Honourable Member for Finance please state-
(a) if it is a fact that local allowance is granted to the Police Super intendent, Inspectors, Head Constables and Constables at Lahore;
(b) if it is a fact that such allowance is not granted to the Police Sub Inspectors ? If so, what are the reasons for the distinction ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) Local .sllowances, i.e., allowances to compensate for expensiveness of living in Lahore, ate granted to the Senior Superintendent of Police, to all Head Constables and to a.JI Constables working at head-quarters. No Inspector gets such· an allowance, though all Inspectors engaged on duty at head·
-qnsrters are granted some other allowance in the form of special pay to remunerate them for the arduous nature of their duties.
{b) The facts are being enquired into and a reply will be communicated "to the honourable member in due course.
[22ND Nova. 1927. PUNJAl3 LEGISLATIVE COUNOIL. 1172
~ .; .
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PLOGGI~G IN MONTGOMERY JAIL.
~- · *647. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will · the Honourable the Finanee, Member be pleased to state~
(a) if it is a fact that after the Montgomery jail disturbance flogging· of the prisoners was carried on for three consecutive days;
0
N ON·CO·OPERA.l'ION OF JAILORS AND ASSISTANT JAILORS WITH CIVIL SUPERINTENDENTS.
*646. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: (a) Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state whether any complaints have reached Govern ment that at places where Civil Superintendents have been appointed the Jailers and the Assistant Jailers do not co-operate with the Civil Superin- tendents? . ·
(b) If so, what action has the Government taken to remedy the state of affairs?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) No such complaints have been received.
(b) Does not arise.
DISTURBANCES IN MONTGOMERY J.HL.
*645. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Finance Mem ber be pleased to state -
(a) the causes of the Montgomery jail riot ; (b) whether Government appointed any commission or held any en
quiry into the causes of the riot ; (c) the findings of the commission or the result of the enquiry?.
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) The event, out of which subsequent' disturbance arose, was an allegation that Assistant Jailer Jagannath had kicked a Koran stand belonging to a convict.
(b) After the riots ah investigation was at once held on the depart1nenta.t side by Major Puri and in addition a magisterial investigation was held.
(c) As a result of the latter and of investigation by the Deputy Super intendent of Police, with whom a magistrate was associated in the enquiry, ·88 out of the 93 rioters were sent up for trial by the courts. On the depart. mental side the Civil Superintendent of the Jail was reverted to the Provin cial Civil Service ordinary line and the Jailer was transferred to a smaller ~- -
·(b) Eighty-eight. (c) No. (d) Yes.
(ii) (a) Yes. (b) It is not for Government to lodge an appeal. :rhe prisoners them
selves have appealed.
KHURSHAID AHMAD KHAN, RESEARCH SCHOLAR.
. "'650. Chaudhri Afzal Haq:- Will the Honourable the Finance, Member he pleased to state- ·
· (a) if it is a fact that Khurshaid Ahmad Khan, M.A., a. research scholar who is now-a-days investigating into the conditions of labour applied to the Punjab Government to allow him to take some figures, especially weight and height, of prisoners and the scale of their diet from the Punjab jails ;
(b) whether Government is considering the application of the gentle. man favourably?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) One Mukh« tar Ahmad Khan, M.A. (not Khurshaid Ahmad Khan) applied for pennis sion to visit the Punjab jails and collect certain statistics for the purpose of 'aiA ecQP.omic enquiry on which he was engaged.
·' -- (b} Permission was granted to him to visit 8 jails for the purpose,
~;
PROSECUTION OF PRlSONERS IN MONTGOMERY JAIL FOR RIOTING.
*649. Chaudhri Afzal H~q: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased. to state the name of those prisoners of the Montgomery .Jail who were prosecuted for rioting and also given jail punishments stating the dsys of remission forfeited. and the nature of other jail punishments .awarded tot hem ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : '.IJhe informa. • tion required by the honourable member is being obtained and will be sup plied to him in due course.
AGE, ETC.; OF PRISONERS FLOGGED I~ MONTGOMERY JAIL.
*648. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to prepare a statement sh owing the age, the state of h.~lth and the weight of each of the prisoners who were flogged for rioting in :Montgomery Jail ? : The Honourable Sir G~offrey deMontmorency : '.Il'he iniorma - tion called for by the honourable member is being collected and will be .supplied to him in due course.
tOhiudhri Afzal Ha.1.J (b) the number of prisoners who were flogged ; . (c) the number of those prisoners who were flogged and who died
within a fortnight? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) Yes; from
27th April 19:27 to 29th April 1927; inclusive. Certain prisoners were flogged on each of these days.
(b) ruwenty-two. (c) One ; Fazal Rahman was flogged on 28th April 1927 and died on
:Srd May 1927. 'Tihe post -mortem report shows that he died from the effects -of early pneumonia. A magisterial enquiry was held which found that he -died from the effects of pneumonia.
[22ND Nova, 1_927 • • l'UNJAa LJilGISLA.TIVE COUNCIL.
c ... - .• ~.--.:·.--,.-.
*653. Cbaudhri Afzal Haq: (i) Will the Honourable the Finance :Member be pleased to sta.Fe-
{a) if the Government is aware of the complaint of the applicants for passports to foreign countries that they are very badly treated by Lambardars and the police when the application is sent to the police station for the certification of character;
'lb) if the Government is further aware that there is also a serious complaint against the treatment meted out to the a.pplica.nts by the clerks of Deputy Commissioners' offices?
(ii) If so, what is being done to remove such oomplaints ? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontinorency: (i) (a) No. (b) Only one complaint has so far been received by Government and it
is being enquired into. · (ii) Does not arise.
. 'J1REATMENT OF APPLICANTS FOR FOREIG::,.f PASSPORTS BY LAMBARDARS AND THE POLICE.
NAMES OF CASTES DEBARRED FROM ENTERING GOVERNMENT SERV.IOE.,
*652. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Financa: . .Member be pleased to state the names of those castes if any which are de
barred from entering Government service? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : No person is
.. debarred by reason only of his caste from entry into Government service .
•
. *$51. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : (1) Will the Honourable the Min_istel' :for Education be pleased to state -
(a) whether it is a fact that Wasirabad ~fonicipal Committee inPeb-' · ruary 1926 decided unanimously to introduce the Compulsory Primary Education Act. within their local limits;
(b) whether it is a fact that for this purpose an allotment was made in the budget for 1926-27, but the Act was not brought into opera tion;
(c) whether it is a fact that in the budget allotment for 1927-28again a considerable sum was allotted for the introduction of eom pulsory education but it has not been introduced so far?
(2) If so, will the Honourable Minister for Education please state:- {a) why compulsory education has not been introduced in Wazir~ba;q:·
as yet; (b) how that budget provision has been used ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Enquiries are being made, and a reply will be supplied-when ready.
1COM:PULSORY PRIMARY EDUCATION ACT IN W AZIRABAD )flfflICIPALJTY,
STARRED QU~STIONS AND ANSWERS.
v-r '·.
3,063 5,011
11,830 4,548 3,866. 5,867 7,197
Ludhiana. Ferozepore L&hore , .&mi.ts&? •• S~ikhupuza .•
·Lya.llpar .. Oujr&nwala .•
'
I &yads. Brabmans,
19,621 19,642 31,848 32,470
6,715 11,849 12,9-H
District.
DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN 8.aYADS A!'.D BRAHMANS IN THEIR AGRICULTURAL STATUS.
*656. Diwan Bahadur Raja Narendra Nath : Will the Honour •. able the Revenue Member be pleased to state -
(a) whether it is a. fa.ct that Bayads a.re notified· as an sgricul tural tribe in the Punjab having a preferential right to purchase. land from other agricultural tribes (Hindu, Muhammadan or · Sikh) ;
(b) whether they are notified as such a tribe in every district of the· Punjab except in Simla and Kangrs where their number is. 369 and 353 respectively ;
(c) whether Brahmans are notified as agricultural tribes in certain · districts forming a separate group by themselves not entitled
to purchase land like the Sayads from other agricultural tribes ; (d) whether Brahmans and Sayads in the districts given below have.
the population respectively shown against them and whether in none of these districts, Brahmans hold the status of agrieul
_tural tribes whilst Sayads· do :-
DISTRIBUTION OF GRANTS·IN·AID.
·*~. Cbaudhri Afzal Haq: With reference to the Education De p~rlment Circular No, lSOJO-G., dated 6th November 1923, will the, Honourable Minister for Education be pleased to state what steps, if any, the present Ministry has taken for equal distribution of gra~ts-in-aid amongst communities and for the encouragement of the educationally backward .. communities ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: No change has been made recently in the general plan of the grants-in-aid ; those who are educationally· backward are usually treated with particular consideration.
APPLICATIONS FOR 1.>ASSP<>nT TO FOaEIGN ooUNTRIEs.
*654. Claaudbri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Finll!noe Member he pleased to state the number of applications received for the ~ant of passports to foreign countries in . the year 1926, and the num ber of applications that were rejected in the same year?
l'he Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The number received was 5,188 and the number rejected 178.
· PUNJAB LBG.IBLA,TIVB OOUNOIL, [22ND Nov'B, 1927. . · uss
: .. ··:· ;;-+i£'">•W. 1 ·}··· ., t 1'ltt .
l ·-.~
(g) whether a larger proportion 0£ Brahmans serve m the A.miy, than 0£ the Sayads.
(h) if the above facts are correct, will the Honourable the Revenue · Member be pleased to explain what are the grounds of
differentiation between Sayads and Brahmans in their agricul tural status :
(i) in districts in which they are notified as agricultural tribes, and· (ii) in other districts ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain r (a) and (b) Saye.d's ,are notified as an agricultural tribe in every district of the Punjab, except in Simla and Kangra. This does not confer any preferential right to pur chase lands, but merely entitles them to do so in common with other agri
·cultural tribes ; (e) Yes; (d), (e) and (fl The figures given m the question are approximately
-correct. (g) '.IThe information is not readily available; (h) Notifications of the agricultural tribes in each district are issued
according to local circumstances, the main determining factors being- (i) that the tribe depends mainly on agriculture, and
(ii) that it requires protection from expropriation by money-lenders of non-agricultural tribes.
, For these reasons Sayads have been notified ·in the districts mentioned. Brahmans have not so been notified as, although there are genuine agriculturists among them, the tribe as a whole is not
, -eonsidered by Government to be an agricultural tribe. Where Brahmans (a.s e.q. Gaur Brahmans) actually form a. tribe which can be described as .agricultural they have been so gazetted.
'·
7 5 i- 8 7·7 12· 8
Brahmans • Says.els. Sa.ya.de.
·pll!ROmNTAGJC llOLLOWING TRADfflONAL OCCU· PATIOl'I' 01' PRIESTS,
Pl!:J>.OJJNTAGE WHO ABlll REOJnVllBS OF
:&ENT.
Brahmans.
PBBO:BN'l'A.011 WHO ABB AC'l'l1AL TILLllBS 01' son., llIEU> usotra.•
l:RB, WOOD Ot!TTl:JlS, Billl:OS OJ'. t..1Vll8TOOX8,
M!Lln.lEN Al(D HDDBMBN,
. Brahmans. Sa ya.de,
· _(e) whether the total population of Brahmans in the Punja. b is 988 ,616 and of Bayads 247,087.
(!) whether the following comparative table is a correct synopsis of . the figures given in table XXI of the Census report :- - · . -~
1177 STARRED QUESTIONS AND' ANSWERS.
1 Pages 744-io ante.
-o\MJUTSAR-PATHANJ{OT ROAD.
*659. Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan : Will the Honourable Minister for Agriculture be pleased to state -
(a) the length and breadth of the Amritsar-Pathankot road; (b) whether the Public Works Department proposes to widen it to
220 feet or so ; (c) the area of the land that will have to be acquired to carry out the
proposal, and its estimated cost ; (d) the number of dwellings, sacred buildings and waqf properties
that shall have to be acquired and demolished, and that of fruit gardens that shall have to be cut down to carry out the
, proposal ; (e) the procedure which is followed on other roads in the province to
get earth; ·
{ -- - ..
AGRICULTURAL IN'DEBTED-:,.ESS.
. . *658. Diwan Bahadur Raja Narendra Nath : With reference to · theunstarred lguestion No. 223, asked on the 18th July 1927,and its answer
will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state whether- (a) the removal of restrictions placed on alienation by men who have
selected trade, banking or various professions as their prin cipal avocation, and
(b) the preferential right of purchase which these classes enjoy, depend on application to be made by them and whether Government proposes to wait till such applications are received ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl .. i-Husain i Government does not contemplate at present taking any action in this matter. Any applica
·tions received will be dealt with on their merits.
PROPORTION FOR. ENLISfMENT OF. VARIOUS COMMUNITIES IN THE SERVICES.
*657. Diwan Bahadur Raja Narendra Nath: (a) Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to state whether the orders fixing the following propor· tions for enlistment in services of various communities are still in force :-
Hindus and others 40 per cent., Muhammadans 40 per cent. and Sikhs 20 per cent ?
. (b) If so, how are these orders co-ordinated with the policy prescribed by resolution No. 4572-S., dated the 3rd October 1919, of Government ?
(c) Which of the two policies or orders has priority over the other, when the percentage prescribed for agriculturists is in excess of 40 per cent. 'l
Mr. H. W. Emerson: (a) No orders of the kind referred to by the honourable member have been issued by Government. •
(b) and (e) Do not arise.
[22ND Nova, 1927~ PUNJAB LEGISLATlV:t COUNOit:... ·.111s
...
· ..... ,.·--·~~- H,,9 N.,-_.<)4! .. ff,_-41 .. , .. .,:l'f __ .< ·
..
ARMS LICEKBE TO MusLIMs IN RoHTAK DISTRICT.
*661. Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan: (a) Will the Honourable the Revenue Member please state the number of licenses for fire-arms granted to Muslim gentlemen in the Rohtak district that were either confiscated by the Deputy Commissioner or not renewed for the · current year,. and give reasons for such refusals or confiscations ?
(b) Does the Honourable Member propose to take any steps in the matter?'
GRA~T-IN·AID.
*660. Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan : (i) Will the Honourable the Minister for Education please state-
(a) whether private educational institutions are allowed to intro duce compulsion in primary departments ;
(b) the number of such institutions that have so far introduced. compulsion in their primary departments ;
(c) the grants-in-aid which they are, under the existing rules. entitled to and are actually getting ;
(d) whether it is a fact that under compulsory education there is a wholesale concession of fees, and the institution is financially a loser by the introduction of compulsion ?
( ii) Does the Government propose to revise the existing rules governing the grants-in-aid so as to· allow grants for full expenditure in the primary department to private aided institutions allowed to introduce compulsion ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : ( i) (a) :N' o. (b), (e), (d) Do not arise. (ii) The whole question of compulsion is under consideration.
(f) the amount of earth annually required for the berms of this road , . and its average cost for the last two years;
(g) whether the Government is aware that this road runs through a densely populated ilaqa especially in the Amritsar district where the zamindars owrr rather small holdings ;
(h) whether the Government is further aware of the fact that the. Amritsar district board in its meeting held on 1st September 1927, unanimously passed a resolution characterising the · aforesaid proposal of widening this road as disastrous to the, agriculturists ;
(i) whether the Government is prepared to consider an alternative· proposal of acquiring plots of banjar land one acre or so in. area for every mile of the road ?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : There is no proposal before Government for increasing the existing land-width of the road between. Amritsar ancI Pathankot. The questions concerning such a proposal do not. therefore arise.
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANBWllRB,
1" I
COPYING EXAl\UNERS OF DEPUTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
*663 •. Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan : Will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state-«
(a) whether it is a fact that the post of the Copying Agent in the offices of the Deputy Commissioners is a permanent pensionable one, while that of the Copying Examiner is a non-pensionable one;
(b) whether it is a. fact that duties of Copying Examiner were under the old system carried on by such responsible officials as Superintendents and Head Vernacular clerks ;
CONFISCATION OF ARMS LICENSE OF CERTAIN PATIIAKS.
*662. Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan: Will the Honourable the Revenue .Member please state if it is a fact that fire-arms' licenses of all the Pathan residents of Mohalla Garhi Afghanan in Rohtak were confiscated by the Deputy Commissioner, Rohtak? If so, for what reasons?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fa:tl•i•Husain: In February last a man was murdered in Mohalla Garhi Afghanan. The alleged murderer, a Pathan, escaped and is still at large, but in pursuance of section 88 of the Code of Criminal Procedure his property was attached. After the murder, six P.atha.ns of Mohalla Garhi Afghanan, who were then in possession of arms licenses, threatened with violence certain persons entering the Mohalla in connection with the police investigation, and these men a.lso obstructed the attachment of the absconder's property. In consequence their arms' licenses were cancelled by the Deputy Commissioner of Rohtnk. On appeal to the Commissioner the order of the Deputy Commissioner was sot aside in one case.
.:c,.)J\o_ Honoucable Mian Sir FuI-i .. ffu.sain : (a) During the current year the . Deputy Commissioner of Rohtak has cancelled the arms licenses of nine Muhammadans. A~ regards the reason for the Deputy Oom.mis sioner's order in six cases, I would refer the honourable member to the answer which is being given to his Question No. 662 (below). As regards the other cases, one licensee was in military employ and his license was cancelled at the in stance of his Commanding Officer and one was a person who in the opinion -of the Deputy Commissioner could not in the public interest be allowed> to possess arms. In one case the licensee, having decided not to purchase a gun, agreed that he had no need for a license. During the same period the Deputy Commissioner has refused to renew tho arms' licenses of ten Muhammadans. Of these four were Government servants and their superior ·officers did not recommend renewal while in the case of five men after an investigation of their circumstances the Deputy Commissioner came to the conclusion that it was undesirable that they should be allowed to possess arms. In one case renewal was refused because the licensee had no weapon.
· (b) No. All these men have a right of appeal to the Commissioner under rule 43 of the Indian Arms Rules.
[21 ST N OVR, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLA?IVB COUNCIL, 118~)_
... - ... ~;··,: .-.--,;,,·.~-~--···.
.1 Vol. Vil-A, pages o3l5-36. • Vol. X-A. pages 640-41,
S. LABH SINGH, Assoc1ATE PROFESSOR OF AGRICULTURE,
*666, Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan : With reference to the answer to .starred 2question No. 222, put on 22nd,;_March 1927, will the Honourable Minister for Agriculture please state--
(a) if he is aware that the officer appointed to the post of Associate Professor of Agriculture passed bis B. Sc. Agriculture in 1925 in the third division and. obtained less marks than his own pupils ;
{b) whether the appointments of Professors and Associate Professors of the Agricultural College, Lyallpur, are made according to: seniority in service or according to merits ; ··
(c) whether he still considers the above appointment of S. Labh Singh to the post as a mere transfer and not a promotion ;
MusLIM SuB·AssrSTANT SURGEONS IN LYALLPUR.
"'665. Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan : Will the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government please state the number of civil dispensaries in the Lyallpur district and of Muslim Sub-Assistant Surgeons in charge thereof?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: The number of dis ~pensaries is 13 and of Muslim Sub-Assistant Surgeons 2.
SCALE OF PAY FOR COPYING EXAMINERS.
*664. Rana Firoz .. ud-Din Khan: (a) Will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state whether it is a fact that the post of Copying Examiner carries a. fixed· emolument, which is sometimes less than -what -oopyists . earn.
(b) If so, whether the Government is prepared to consider the case and make the post a graded one like that of the stenographers with a salary of Rs. 100--5-150?
The Honourable Mian Si, Fa2U .. Husain > (a) The emoluments -of Copying Examiners are fixed. Government is not aware whether these ·etboluments are occasionally less than the monthly earning of copyists. Ilhe latter fluctuate according to the total income of the Copying Agency.
(b) The attention of the honourable member is invited to the reply "given to part (c) of his question No. 663 (S1tpra).
( c) · 1'hether it is proposed to take steps to remove this discrimination between the two posts and make the post of Copying Examiner also a permanent pensionable one ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Faz:l;.i .. Husain: (a) Yes. (b) Yes. (c) The attention of the honourable member is invited to the reply
given to part (d) of Council lquestion No. 1637 by my predecessor on the 14th of March 1925.
FIRING OK ZAMINDARS IN VILLAGE KHOKHORZER.
"'669. Chaudbri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable Finance Member be pleased to stat0--:
(a) if it is a fact that on the 22nd June 1927 in the village Khokhorzer, Tahsil Cbakwal, District Jhelum, three zamindars named Hafiz Hasan Din, Saghar and Kehr Mehdi were fired upon and they received several injuries ;
(b) if it is a fact that the matter was reported to .the police station;
APPOINTMENTS TO THE SUPERIOR AGRICULTURAL SERVICE.
. *668. Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan: Will the Honourable the Minister for Agriculture please state the number of appointments made to the superior agricultural service, direct or by promotion from the provincial service, since December 1925 with names and qualifications of the gentlemen appointed as compared with their rival candidates?
The Honourable SardarJogendra Singh : I regret that the answer to this question is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honour able member when ready.
*667. Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan: Will the Honourable Minister for Agriculture please state -
(a) if appointments to the posts of Fruit Specialist and Millet Spe cialist have been made;
(b) the names of the gentlemen who have been appointed; (c} the procedure that was followed in making the selection?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: (a) Yes. The appoint= ments to the posts of 2nd Fruit Specialist and Botanist for Millets have been made.
(b). Mr. Satya Dev Loornba and Mr. Bajra Sain, Sawhney, respectively. (c) The selection was made by a Selection Committee consisting of
the Honourable Minister for Agricluture, Financial Commissioner, Develop- ment and Director of Agriculture. ·
FRUIT AND l\irLLET SPECIALISTS.
[~ Firoi0~d~Diii Khan:] · (a) the pay the gentleman wag drawing as an Assistant Professor
and the pay he has been drawing as an Associate Professor, and the rates of increment in the two capacities ;
(e) the qualifications of Chaud.hri Abdul Wahid as compared with those of S. Labh Singh ?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : The answer to this question is not yet ready, but the answer I gave yesterday practically covers the answer to this question.
[22ND N OVR, 1927 s-.
' -.i
.,_,''.!
PBIN'CIPAL, VICTORIA GIRL$ $CHOOL, LAHORE.
*671. Chaudbri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable. Minister for Edu-. cation be pleased to state-
(a) the age of the Principal of Victoria Girls School, Lahore;
REMOVAL OJi' THE XAMES (W RA,JPCTS 'OF VIT,LAGE JlATHAUR FROM THE , TIEGISTLR OF CRIMTNAL 'fllIBE'3.
*670. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Revenue· Member be pleased to state-'
(a) whether the attention of the Government has been invited to the article which appeared in the '' Muslim Rajput," a weekly of Amritsar on the 5th January Hl27, under the heading of' " Rajputs " as members of criminal tribes ;
(b) whether it is a fact that Raj puts of village Rathaur, Tahsil Narain~ garh, who are registered as members of the criminal tribes served. the Government in the Great War and some of them are big zamindars ;
(c) whether the Government is considering the desirability of remov ing the names of Bajputs ofvilla.ge Bathaur from the registes of criminal tribes ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Faz] .. i_ .. Husain: ((!,) Yes. (b) Rajputs of village Rathaur, tahsil Naraingarh, were not notified.
as a whole. Action was taken in regvrd to certain individuals only whom it was desirable to bring within the purview of the Act. Nothing is known. in regard to ws r services rendered by any of these individuals. None of' them are big zernindcrs.
(c) :N'o.
(d) No. (e) No. (j) The reason is apparent from the reply to part (c).
(c) if it is a. fact that even the Superintendent of . Police )vt).s.i approached by the party so that the matter might be· enquired into by him ;
(cl) if it is a fact that no action has so far been taken by the police.
(s) if it is a fact that a rich and influential man is suspected to· have fired the gun which injured the zamindars ;
(f) why rio action has so far been taken in this case ? The Honourable Sir Geotfrey de Montmorency: (a) No. (b) No. ' (c) In July last one Muhammad Ali, presented a petition to the Super··
intendant of Police which was investigated and found to be without founda~ tiou.
t,·.\
i - I·
QUALIFHJATIONS OF THE l\1ISTRESSES OF VICTORJ.A. GIRLS' SCHOOL, LAHORE.
*672. Chaudhri Mzal Haq: Will the Honourable Minister for :Education be pleased to state--
(a) the qualification of the miatreases of Victoria Girla' School, Lahore;
(b) whether it is a fact that some of the mistresses draw Rs. 500 a month without any academic qualifications ? If so, why ?
, The Honourable· Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) A statement is laid on the .table.
(b) No.
(d) For exceptional ability and merit. 'llp.
1Qbaudhri Afzal .Haq.] - (b) the number of years for which she has been given extension of
service; (c) if it is a fact that inspite of her very old age it is contem
plated to extend her service by another year ? (d) the grounds for the extension of the service of the Principal year
after year? The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) There is no Principal
·-o.l: the Victoria School for Girls, Lahore. 'i'here is, however, a Lady Super inten.dent whose age is ov er 63 years.
{b) Nine years (e) The question of grant of extension in service has not JC!t been token
{22ND Nova.1927. ll'CMifAB LBGISLHIVB OOUNClt,, :1184
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[22ND Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL,
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, ,,·.•c-;:·.--<,
1186
Bo,\RD O.lt' ExAMININO ENGINJ1ERR.
/*675. Dr~ Sir Muhammad Iqbal: (i) Will the Honourable the Reve. · _ nue Member please stats- - .
(a) whether it is a fact that since the starting of the Board of Examin,. ing Engineers in 1906 not a single Muslim has secured a seat on the Board ;
(b) whether it is a fa.ct that the members of the Board never clfa~ged ; (ii) If the answer to (a) and (b) is in the affirmative, does the Govern •
. ment propose to put a Muslim on the Board and to make rules regulating change of the personnel of the Boa.rd after a. fixed_ period o£ time ? - ·
• · 1Page 1308 i".fr~.
S.UTA G4."M!BLING-;
*673. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Finance Mem- .ber be pleased to state- ·
(a) whether the. Government received any application from t.ha traders of Ludhiana. complaining that Satta gambling is openly practised in the Ludhiana market ;
(b) whether it is a fact that every day in the evening :::Jatta;waf,o,s gather together in hundreds in the main street of Ludmana causing hindrance to the traffic ;
(c) whether the Government bas taken any step to stop 8atta gambling in Ludhiana ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) An appli - cation was received - by the Superintendent of Police, Ludhiana.
(b) No. (c) Unless the ]r.,w is reinforced, it will not. be possible for Government
to ti! ke more general or drastic action than it ha s been taking hitherto, './,.,-,:-" --- .
_/ SCARCITY OF ~fECIIANICAL ENGINEERS. .
/ *674. Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal: Will the Honourable the .H.evenue : Member please state-
(a) the respective number of mills and factories requiring first and second class Engineers in accordance with the Punjab Boilers rules;
(b) the number of first and second class certificate~' regarding both. service and competency issued by the Board of Exa.miniug Engineers since 1906 ;
(c) the number of complaints received by Government from the factory owners (with names and addresses) about the scarcity of Mechanical Engineers ? ..
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: '.rhe Honourable Member ·is referred to the reply given to 1question No. 4.40 put by Chaudhri Afzal Haq. ..- . . ..
. -
i
STABRJD, QU99TIONSI AND ANSWJllRS.
·- . ~ .
~·-··,·· ... ....... ·~. . . . . ... t ,. ii;~Jit}i~ .: · .. · ..
- - I -
1p age 1307 ,nff'a•
*677. Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal: (i) ·will the Honourable tho .Minister for Education please state-
(a) whether it is a. fact that private institutions were given the option of applying the Compulsory Primary Education Act within the sphere of their operations;
(b) whether it is a fact that a great many private institutions desire to adopt the principle of compulsion but have not availed themselves of this ' option ' owing to the exiguity of grant, allowed under the existing rules ?
UoMPULSORY PRIMARY EnucATION AcT.
/'' BOARD OF EXAMINING ENGINElilRS.
~- Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal; (i) wm the Honourable the, Revenue Member please stat~ ·
(a) whether the Board of Examining Engineers is contemplating issuing first and second class certificates without pre-examin ation;
(b) whether it is a fact that there is already a good number of firsn and second class Mechanical Engineers who are out of employ ment and 'Whom the industry cannot absorb?
(ii) If the answer to (a) and (b) is in the affirmative, what is the reason for issuing first and second class certificates without examination ?
• The Honourable' Mian Sir Fazl,.i .. ffusain : (a} No changes in the existing rules are under consideration. The powers of the Board are res tricted by the rules contained in Appendix B of the rules issued under the, Boiler Act.
(b) Government has no information, (c) Does not arise.
j (
..... ·· The Honouralde Mian Sir Fazl..j .. ffusain: (i) (a) The Honourable . ltember is· referred to the answer given to Council lquestion 443.
(b) No. (ii) No. Appointments to this Board are made on the score of teohni
cal qualifications or ex-officio; as will be clear from its undermentioned pre- sent constitution :- ·
(1) The Director of Industries, Punjab, Ex-officio-Chairman. (2) The Chief Boiler Inspector, Punjab, E:t-officio. (3) The Works Manager, North-Western Railway, Loco Shops,
Mughalpura. (4) Mr. J. Gately, Superintendent, V~7ater Works and Boiler Inspector,
Delhi. Government sees no reason to change the present rules. /
I
PUli!'JAB LBGISL.&.TIV1l couscn, . 1188 . ¥. . , ..... ~ . · ..
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DISTRICT INSPECTORS OF ScHOOLS.
. . *680. Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal : Will the Honouxable the Minister for Education please state -
(a) .the D!lIDes of headmasters, _co.nm:i11ajty-wise, appointed by Dis trict Inspectors of Schools, d'uririg the fast six months ;
(b) the respective ages of the new District Inspectors of Schools and the period of their inspection experience in the department ?
The Honourable. Mr. Manohar Lal:· (a) District Inspectors of S~hools have th_e appointment of bea<1masters iri Board Schools only .. If
zpages II6<t-6o au:pra.
MuNICIUL BOARD NIGHT SCHOOLS, AMRITSAR OrrY . .. *6'19. Dr. Sir Mu.h'arnmacl Iqbal i Will the Honourable the Minis· .
tar fot Education please state -- . (a) the number of adults on rolls on' Slat ?vfarcli isse and 3lst Ma'rch ·
1927 in Municipal Board Night Schools in Amrits!ll' City; . (b) the amount of money spent oil the schools annually ;
(c) the number of fLdults who have secured literacy certificates from these schools ?
Th~ Hono~rable Mr. M~nohar Lal: Enquiries are being made and ' a reply will be sent to tho honourable member when ready.
EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS IN AMRITSAR DISTRICT.
0... lG18 ... 1 J>r._Si,r,M:p."8,mmad Iqbal: Will the Honourable the l\finister for Education pleas~ state- ·
' . (~) the number and standard of the various kinds of educ.~ti-;n~l: ...... ,. . . institutions; community-wise, in the Amritsar district; _'
(b) the number of Anglo-Vernacular )fiddle Schools with optional English classes in the Amritsar · Distrfot ;
(o) the nu:iliher of Muslim and non-Muslim Head'rriastars 1u tne'se. institutions and their qualifications ; ·
(d) the total number ot Vernacular Middle Schools in tho AnJitsar district ;
(e) the number of non-Muslim and Muslim Headmasters in the schools mentioned in (aJ ? . The. Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: 'fhe information is being
collected and will be supplied to the honourable member when ready.
(ii) If the answer to (a) and (b) is in the affi.rmati've, does the Govefii-' ment propose to amend the existing rules relating to grants so that private institutions adopting the principle of compulsion may not be handicapped ?
The Honourable Mr. Man'.ohar Lal : (a) The honourable member's attention i's invited to the replies to 1 questions Nos. 626-27 !'
(b) ,and (c) do not arise.
•, :···._;~··\.1 .~-,,~-i·1 _· ","'.°• I~.. •. - ... -\·:· STARRED C;!UBSTIONS AND ANSWERS.
GRAN T-lN. AID.
· *683. Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal : Will the Honourable the Minis ter for Education please stRte -
(a) his decision on the case of the grant-in-aid of the D. A.-V. School, Bara Mange, Gurdaspnr District; · · -
- .... (b) bis decision on the case of grant-in-aid of Islamia High Behool.. Dssuya, Boshierpur District ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Ko cese has recently been under the consideration of Government relating tor. grant-in-cid of v.. D.-A. V. School at Bare. Mange.
DIBBURSEME~T OF :'liILITARY SCHOLARSHIPS UT JHELUM DISTRICT.
-*682. -Dr. Sir Muhammad [qhal: (a) Will the Honourable the Minister for Education please state. whether it is a fa.ct that a report was made by the Deputy Commissioner, Jhelum, and Inspector of Schools; Raw$.lpindi Division, aga.inst Lala Sant Ram, District Inspector of Schools; Jhelum, regarding serious irregularities in the disbursement of military scholarships in the Jhelum district?
.. : _(b) If the answer -to (~) is -in the affirmative, will the Honourable Minister for Education ~indly place on the table his decision on the case?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) and (b) Certain irregu larities were brought to light in connection with the administration of mili tary scholarships in the Jhelum district. The reports thereon of departmen tal and other officers are confidential. Appropriate departmental action has been taken.
INSPECTOR 0~' SCHOOLS, LAHORE DIVISION.
*681. Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal: (a) Will the Honourable the Minister for Education please state whether it· is a fact that among the .Deputy Inspectors of Schools, there are some who are senior to the present Inspector of Schools, Lahore Division, both in point of pay and academic quali.6eations?
(b) If the answer to (a) is in the affirmative, what consideration I eel the Honourable Minister to promote him in preference to those senior to him?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Yes. (b) The officiating appointment wss made in the ordinary course by
promotion of the Deputy Inspector who is held competent to hold charge, and had held charge of the division on P, former occasion elso.
[IIon. Mr. Manoh~r Lal. ] the honourable member desires this informs tion, it would be collected though it is feared that the time spent on the enquiry would not be com. mensurate with the value of the information.
(b) If the honourable member will define the expression-'' new Dis trict Inspectors " an effort will be made to supply the information desired.
[22ND NoVR.192,7. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE. COUNCIL, 1190
---·~
D2
SARDAR KARTAR SrnoH AND SARDAR TEJA SINGH.
*686. Sardar Hira Singh : Will .~ the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state -
(a) whether it is a fact that Sardar Kartar Singh of Jhabar in Sheikhu pura District and Sardar Teja. Singh of Bhnehar in Amtitsa11 District, two Gurdwara prisoners (who were at one time released on certain conditions . but were re9!1'ested} were offered release as Gnrdwara prisoners on their undertaking to work the Sikh Gurdwara.s Act;
... 26 16
.~/
. . •• Number of Hindus Number of Muslims Number of Sikhs
,, (
I·
-
REPORT OP THE COMMITTEE ON UNEMPLOYMENT.
•684. Dr. Sir Muhammad lqhal 2 (a) Will the Chief Secretary please state whether the committee to coruri.der the question of unemptoy. nient have submitted a report ? ·
(b) If so, will he please place the report on the table 9 (c) If not, will the Government please get the matter expedited? Mr. H. W. Emerson : (a) No. (b) Does not arise. (c) The committee hopes to be able to submit a report to Government
· by the end of January. .<? · ·
.,{USLlll,; REPRESE~~TIO~ n~-::-O~FICE OF SuP~RINTENDING . /; ENGINEER, 8RD BARAWALPUR DIVISION.
· //"'685. Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal: (a) Will the Honourable the Refenue Member please state whether it is a fact that out of the 49 posts in the office of the Superintending Engineer, Third Ba.ha.walpar Citcle, Sutlej Valley Project, only five cler~shipe ate held by Muslims and the re maining 4.4 are held by Hindus ?
(b) If the answer to (a) is in the affirmative, does the Honourable Metnber propose to take steps to correct .this glaring disproportion. \I
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl .. i-Hu,ain: (a) The answer is in the negative.
(b) Does not arise. A statement is attached to give h1ttnet information, if hooded.
Total number of· clerks in 3rd Bahawalpnr Circle, Sntlej Valley Project 45
(b) The grant-in-aid of the Islamia High School, Dasuya, is under suspension.
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. 1191
' -~
lVol. X-.A., pages 606-10, ~Pages 938-41 ante,
CHAUKIDARA TAX,
. *688. Sardar Hira Smkb': Will the Honourable the Revenue ·.¥0Plbet: kindly state -
(a) whetha' it' is a fa~t th~t a tax: called the " Ohaulti.dara tax " is realised from' the villagers and that no such tax is charged from the people living in towns ;
- RELEASE. OF GURDWARA PRISONERS.
•68'1. Sardar Hira Singh: Will the Honourable the Fin~ce Member kindly state-
. (~} the number of Gurdwara prisoners relessad ainoo the resolutioh . regarding the release of the Gurdwsra prisoners was passed
by the Council in its meeting held on the 21st March 1927; (b} the intention of Government regarding the release of the remain
ing Gurdwara prisoners ? The ltonoura6le. Sir Geoffrey d'eMontin~rency: (a) Eleven,
in the following detail :-- ( i) Persons serving a portion of a sentence of fine only . . 5
(ii). ~ersons serving a portion of a sentence for jail offences only . . . . . . . . 2
(iii) On medical ·grounds ·' 1 (iv) On reduction of sentence 3
(b) The policy of Government has been indicated in considerable detail in statements made by me in this House on 21st March! 1927 and 21st July2 1927, to which I have nothing to add.
fSardar Bira Singh. J · (b) whether it is also a fa.ct that the Government has now classified
them as prisoners errnvioted of violence against person and pro perty;
(c) the rea.sons w"fft tlteiJe pris-on:ers . have ti.OW b'~~n ti:u'lkec! (Jg' per sons gwlty of violence against person and property ?
The HonoikrJddt, Sir Ge~fltey deMorttiriod'ncy: (a) T"Hii sen tences. of these two pol!victs were suspended in 1921 under section 401, Crimiriel Procedure Code, upon certain specie l oor-ditions. These condi tions were violated and the suspension of the sentence was consequently cancelled by Government under section 401 (3), Criminal Procedure Code.
('If) A's Teja Singh, son of :Maya Singh, was convicted under section 395/452, Indian Penal Code and Kartar Singh, son of I'eja Singh, was con victed under section 395, Indian Penal Code, in two cases and under section 452, Indian Penal Code, in two cases, they have been classed as persons convicted of violent crime .. .;.;.~ Jc)0,13.~ause they have been convicted under sections 395 and 4?2, Indian renal 'ode,
[22ND NOVR, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1192
-- --- --- --- --- -- --· ·-
CONSTRUCTION OF A RAILWAY LINE BETWEEN QILA Si:>~~~ ~I~9_H AND ZAFARWAL. .
. --~ -i .; ... ~i .u "'}":..!!:};,, -
*"fJ. Jh,m l,Jub,~Dla~ Abdulla~ Khan : Will the Honenrable the RevElill~~ Mex~.l:ier kindly state whether 'it is · a fact that a· iiurvey :for tlie extension of -a railway' line was carried out between Qila Sobba Singh and Zafarwal in the Sialkot :Pia~rict some. time ago ? If so, will h~ kindly enq·uire from the authorities 'eoncemed and s~ate when i~~ cons,1iill~~io9 Qt this line is likely to be taken in hand?'··· · ' ~ - ··· ·1 · · .. • . •
. ' 'fh~ Jl~~ourabl~·Mi~~ Sir Fad·i·Q~~a~: Tpe i:yp_ly tq· ih~ gmt 'part of'the'°qtie~tioh11is''~tf f.he'~,ffih:rir:tive."-"~~e_ prospects Rt !h!~ :p,r,Op.PJ~
-CL . .\SSIFICATION OF MAIZE' AS FODDER CROPS, . ' . • . . . ..;.· ,. • • : . J. . .. '.... : ~ .
!690. Sardar lrll"a Singh : (i) WiU the Honourable the Re.venue Member kindly 'sfate ~hether.he is aw~e <>f ~fie fiwt- . .
• -., • .• '. ~ • - ·- J • ~
(a) t)lat in the past the water-rate on maize sown in the months of March and April was charged at that fixed for fodder crops ;
(b) that. the rate has now been changed siu'oe 'tlie' 1asf ~e~n; (c) t~at maize sown in the months of March and April is never used
~~~~er? . . (ii) Will the Honourable Member kindly state whether the Govern
ment proposes to charge the same rate on maize sown in March and Aptjl as that charged for the fodder crops 'l · ·
The Honeureble Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: (i) (a), (b) and (c). Replies 'are in tlie-affirmetive.
· (ii) The matter is under consideration.
0PENiNG THE SIDE ROADS ALONG CANAL RrnKs TO Ptrar.rc TRAFFIC.
*~· ~d,ar Hira S~~-~ : (~) Will t~e Il~?.o:ur~~~e !he ~Y:~nue Member iindly state whether 1t 'is a !aot that the side roads co~~ot~ ~~e2Can81 Department along the bank~ of o'~n~ are not op~n,· 'to-r:n~
· · : (11) Does Government propose issuing orders removing all re~ttjct~o~ on the u8e of the!e roads ? ~ · ·. · · ., -· · · · · · -· ..... ·· ., ... ··
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl·i~Hµiain (a) Yes. (b) Ko. Canal banks are unsuitable for public traffic .because they can
stand up to light traffic only; when wet t.hey have to be closed because even the lightest traffic destroys the surface. Also they are not wide enough for a double line of traffic and many are only just wide enough for a single line ; it would therefore be dangerous to open them to public traffic.
(b) whether tlie Government proposes to abolish tm,i tax? .~ . ,.,-;..,. .... ...... ' · .. ·:·I I '
The Honourable Mion Sir Fazl-i-Husain: (a) Yes. (b) No. . .
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. ' •• --···· ' •• ~ ..... • j ,\ ; •• ,
Coxsranorro» OF A ROAD ~'ROM SHEIKH:UPUHA TO HARAN }IuNARA,
*694. ·Khan Muhammad Abdullah Khan: (a) Will the Honourable the Ministet for Agriculture be pleased to state whether it is a fact that in the Sheikhupnra. District there exists a place called " Haran Munara " (hunting resort of the late Emperor Jahangir) which is proteotedunder the Ancient Monuments Act and is most frequently visited by public from far and near?
., - (b) Is it also a fa.ct that this place is situated at about 3 miles from %h&ikhttpura proper and that there exists no general road to that place except a kacha canal road which is closed for wheeled traffic and horses under the orders of the Executive Engineer, Gujranwala, and the public h8S to walk to t~t place on foot ?
USE OF' GOVERNMENT MOTOR LORRIES FOR PRIVATE BUSINESS.
*693. Khan Muhammad Abdullah Khan : Will the Chief Sec retary be pleased to lay on the table a list of the departments in the Punjab which use Government motor lorries for carriage of stores, etc., belonging to Government and state whether these motor lorries are allowed to be used £~~ private business of the officers of the department concerned ?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: Government does not consider that the pre paration of 2 list of the departments which use Government motor lorries will serve any useful purpose and hopes that in view of the reply to the latter part of the question the honoura ble member will not press for the prepera tiou of such i:i. list. It is 0 general principle that Government officers are not entitled to use Government motor lorries for the purpose of private business or gait". The travelling allowance rules give effect to this principle either by reduction of the ordinary rates, or otherwise, in those rare cases when an officer on tour or on transfer uses motor lorries belonging to Governinent ,
RAILWAY LINE .FROM PASRUR TO Za.FARWAL,
. *692. Khan Muhammad Abdullah Khan : Will the Honourable tb.e Revenue Member be pleased to enquire from the authorities concerned and state whether the line shown 1n the railway map printed with the Rail way Time and Fare Table in force from 1st October 1927 under construction from Pasmr to Zafa.rwal is proposed to be constructed instead of the pro: posed line from Qila Sobba Singh to Zafarwal or in addition to that line ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i•Husain: In the map. accom panying the North Western Railway Time Table the projected line to Zafar wal should have been shown as running from Qila Sobha Singh and not from Pasrnr.
fHon. Mian Sk Fazl-i-Husain] - branch line were, however, found to be so poor that the Agent, North Wes tern Railway, has been asked to advise on the prospeets o.f a narrow gauge tramway in lieu of the broad gauge fine originally contemplated.
[ 22ND Nova, 1927. PUNJAB LBGIBLATIVE OOUNOIL. 1194
~--~--~- ~--·- .. ·, ~---
*697. Rai Sahib Lala Ganga Ram: (a) Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state whether it is a. fa.ct that the Super intendent of Police, Ludhiana, has issued a. declaration that no gratuity
RECE!P'r' OF GRATtJI--TY BY POLICE SERVANTS.
Moron LORRY No. P.-5622 PLYUW B.ElTWEEN LAHORE A~D SREIKHUPURA.
"'696. Khan Muhammad' Abdullah Khan : Will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state whether motor lorry No. P.-5622 plying between Lahore and Sheikhupura has been licensed for hire? If so, will he kindly enquire and state whether this lorry is :in a serviceable condition? If the answer to the latter part be in the negative, will he kindly state why this lorry has been licensed for hire ?
The Honourable Miao Sir Fazl-i .. Husain: Yes. 'I'his lorry was inspected in March fast and was then Iour-d to be in a serviceable con dition. It is now being inspected agD.in, and if it is found to have become unserviese ble its road certificate will be cancelled.
LICENSES E'OR MOTOR CA-ns PLYING BETWEEN LAHORE A~D SHEIKHUPURA.
*695. K.han Muhammad Abdullah Khan: Will the Honourable the Member for Revenue be pleased to sta.te-
(a) whether it is a fact that there are several motor oars and lorries - which are quite unfit for plying on hire but which have been passed and granted license for plying them on hire between Labore and Sheikhupura ;
(b) If the answer be in the affirmative, does he propose to direct the authorities responsible for issuing licenses to these lorries-
(i) to cause an inspeesion and to cancel the licenses of those that are found to be unfit to carry passengers; and
(ii) to be very careful in issuing licenses in future? The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Hasain r (a) So for as Govern·
ment is aware, road certificates valid fo-r the roe d between Lahore and· Sheikhupura have been issued only i11 respect of serviceable motor vehicles.
(b) 'I'his pert ot the question does not arise; but I may irform the honours ble member that in future all motor vehicles plying for hire between Lahore and Sheikhupura will be subjected to an official inspection each quarter.
(e) If the answers to the above be in the affirmative. does Governnient consider it desirable to open this canal road for horses and all kinds of traffic or order the District Board concerned to oonsttuct a pucea road from Bheikbupura to "Haran Munara. "· at sn oo.rly date?
The Honourable ·sardar Jogendra Sinab: (a) and (b) 'I'he reply is in the affirmative.
(c) Orders are being issuedto open the canal road to the public.
119.5: STAnRED QUESi'IONS .AND .ANSWERS.
_· _ ~.699. Rai Sahib Lala Ganga R.m : (i) Wil.1 the ij:onoura,ble th~ Ministl)I for Local · Se)f--Oove;rnru(:l:nt be pleased to sta~e-
(a) whether it is a fact that Banaspati gki is being imported in large- : . quantities info. this province ; . '' . . .
(b) whether it is also a fact that Banaspati gM, does not contain essential nutritious elements, such as vitamins ;
{c) whether it is also a fact. that preparations made by this ghi are fie~ly sold without letting the customer know iibout it ?
(ii) If so, does the Govertmient propose to take steps to check the free sale of Banaspa.ti ghi and its preparations ?
The Honourabl~ Malik Firoz .Khan~ Noon: (i) (a) Government have ·n6 inl6rm_il.tio1:I.: v '· .· - · ,. ' · , · ... ·, ' · · · ·
, t i?I) !J7i·g?J,aS~~t:i ~hi is deficient ,in ,certain· vit:~;o:1U:B w_h __ ich ar.e prese~t i~ na uila g i: · ·
BANASPATI Gm. ·-
1.foTOR AO_CIDENr AT THE LEVEL OROSSINO N.E.AR VE.RK.A.
*698. Rai Sahib Lala Ganga . Ram : Will - the Ei:>~~urable _tb,~ Revenue Member be pleased to s.tate- ·
(a) _whether it is a fact th_at a serious motor accident occurred recently at the railway level crossing near Yerka, Gurdaspur District ;
(b) the details of the accident and the action which the Government proposes to take to stop the recurrence of such. accidents ?
... · . '. . ,... ... . . .'. .:. ·.:
· The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl·i-Husai~: (a) Yes. (b) A passenger train collided with a motor bus; ten persons travelling
on the bus were killed or subsequently died and 14 were injured. ']ho Railway Administration have under consideration a proposal for the installa tion a.t the level crossing a..t which this' accident' occurred, 'of gateswhich will open simultaneously and close simultaneously. As regards level crossings g!lflerally, 'they have under consideration the quest-ion how danger to the public can be minimised in the case of those which are not in charge of an attendant. The level crossing at which the accident under reference occurred is one which is in charge of an ·attendant. ·
• · 'JJhe question of responsibility for the accident. has not yet been finally doohl~ ·
[
[~ Ba:hib Lala Ganga Ba°:1.3 should pe received by police servants at thanas at _the time oJ reports from tliii"puoitc' and'. 'that ·ra~or-~f ;t~}i~f twJirj riilg~~:·i~,~o ~:~ 1~t iii rmAii: t"j - ,
_ (b) If so, does the Gove,rnment propose to get such a notice jgsued in other districts ofthe province ali!b ~ . .: ' . - . ·- '
The H9nourabJe Sir Geolftey ~eMontmorency: (a) Yes. (b) 'Jfue. declaration was iss~ed to all districts ~ndei: the orders of Govern-
m~. - -
[22ND NoVR.1927. l'UNJA.ll Ll!lG:I8LATlVB COUNO_IL, 119.6.
ABOLITIO:-{ OF MONOPOLY OF .. Rt::NJ.'iING TAXlES _t:)N THE TA.LA GANJ· ANJIA • ROAD, drsT~IOT ArTOCK. ... •. ,., .• ; • .· ' ._.:.:. !,
*701. Raizada Hans Raj: Will the Honourable the Revenue Mem- ber W·pJeased· to stat~ - ' · .
(a) whether it is a. fact that a monopoly has been created in favour ' 9f one person or firm for running taxies on t.he T~Ia. Gan}
Anjia road, district Attock ; (b) whether the terms of the said monopoly were ever advertised
and whether "tenders were 'called for it ; (c) under what law this monopoly has been created ; (d) whether the Government will soo its way to abolish the mono- . poly?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl .. I-Husaia . (a). No; (the road in question is the Talagang-Injra road). The District Board of ~ttoek are, however, desirous of creating a monopoly for a period of three years;
(b) Terms were not fixed in advance, but applications for the monopoly were invited: throughout the Pindi Ghe,b s11;b-<iivisiop..
(c) The monopoly has not as yet been created. (d) Government is enquiring into the matter .. It is improbable that a.
monopoly 'wilt' be per.initied. • . . . ·.
,
(c) Prob~bly, ~s there is ~~ .PfC!v~;on o! J~w 'rh~c,h requires a -:endor t9 l!~~te t~e mgr~~en~s of ar,t1(il~s so~~ _by hi:qi, out .~ h:P Sflll~ an~g as afoifotliing·wn'ich·1fis iiot'he 'ii!' i>unisliable un:&m- tfie-ordinary 1aw. , '·.:'
. .(~i) ~e s~ep~ -~~t _i,t is 1.l?°~s-~~rY ?r _desir3:?~e to take ~it~ -~~ga.~~ to th~ 'Ii\1? 9i ye§eta.,We }J.~?' ru,·.~ ~t1~1;1g co~:~?.~l.'~U }JY ~.ov:e,w.~ent. N a!tural ghi .l;iaa now lieen notified under tM PunJ!lti Ailtx:(terat1on of Food Act, 1919, wbi6h. has· 'bee{} applie~ t_o the ,mutribip~li~i~.s \if SWi!a .and ta,ho1e, and public analys.t~ have be~n'appo~nted for tne's~·towns; wb.ifo'the question of appoint· ing' a :pu 6Iic 'analyst 'for the w~o;o province is under consideration.
!NJUSTIOE TO Hrsmr TEACHEUS.
*700. Rai Salul, Lala Ganga· Ram : -Will the Honourable the ¥iniater for Education be pleased tcnitate-
. (a) whether the attention of the Government has been drawn to an article headed "Worthy of attention of Education Ministeli of .. the· Punjab," published in the M.ilap, dated the 15th October 1927, regarding the alleged injustice done to Hindu
.teaohers ; (b) whether there is any truth in these allegations ; (c) whether the Government proposes to fake any action in the
matter?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) I have not been able to discover such an article in the issue referred to. '
(b) and (c) Do not arise.
STARRED Q'(J'ES';rJ!)NS. AND ANS~RS. -·'. " . . . ...... .... '.J. - .. ' .. . •
DISPENSARY AT. HATHEAIR.
*704. Raizada Hans Raj : Will the Honourable the }finistei· foD Looal Self-Government please state-
(a) whether the Government is aware of the fact that the dispensary at Hatheair, district Ludhiana, which has been in existence
MIDDLE SCHOOL AT HATHEAIR,
"'703. Rai~ada Ban, Raj : wm the Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to stat&- ·
(a) if the building of the middle school at Ha.thea.ir in Ludhiana· District is a rented one ;
_(b) whether the building of the said school was sold by the district . board;
(c) the date on which the building was sold and the purpose for which the amount so realised has been utilised ; ·
(d) when a new building for the school will be built? The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a), (b) Yes. (c) On 11th October 1927. The sale-proceeds have been credited to
· the district fund. id) Probably during the current financial year.
"MoTBER.lNDIA !' BY MIBs MAYO.
"'702. Raiuda · Hans Raj : Will the Honourable the Finance Member· please state-
{ a) whether it is a fact. that Government offioia.ls in the Punjab. especially of the- police department and the Information Bureau, helped Mies Mayt> in the collection of materials Jor· the publication of her book II Mother India " ?
(b) whether the Government is aware that this book has been bitterly resented by the Indian public; ·
(c) whether the Government intends· to take steps to proscribe its · entry into the Punjab; .
(d) whether in the American edition of the book, there were certain things. written against Muhammadans but were removed in the English edition ; · ·
(e) whether the Punjab Government had anything to do in the .. matter?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) Government understands that during her visit to the Punjab Miss Mayo met and conversed with a number of officials and non-officials. No official help was given to her in the Punjab towards the collection of material.
- (b) Yes, (c) No ..
. (d) Government has no information on this point. ' (e) No.
[22ND N OVR. ]927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1198
,! . : j
*706. Raizada Hans Raj : Will the Honourable the Minister . for Eduoa.tion be pleased to state-
( a) whether the attention of the Government has been drawn to the issue of the TrW!me, dated the 27th September 1927,
· page 11, column 3, wherein it is complained that some of the Hindi text-books for University examinations are not avail able;
(b) whether the Government proposes to take steps to remedy the defect?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: I have seen tho issue of the Tribune referred to by the honourable member, but I clo not find there is anything at page 11, column 8, about Hindi text-books for University examinations.. It may be that the honourable member wished to refer to Resolution No; (8)reported to have been passed at a. meeting of the 'Hindi Sahitya Bammelsn at Simla in the month of September, and to be found at page 11, column 1, but that invites the attention of the Director of Public
Hrsnr TEXT BOOKS FOR UNIVERSITY EXAJrIINATIONS.
Jl.dISIYAT TAX.
*705. Raizada Hans Raj : Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Beli-Govemment be pleased to state-
(a) whether the Government is aware of the fact that the imposition of hais,yat tax has been held to be illegal by judicial courts in the Punjab ;
(b) what steps does the Government intend to take to refund the haisiyat tax a.h-Eiady realised ?
The .Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) Yes. (b) A Bill is being .introduced this session to validate haiaiyat taxes
with effect from the date of their imposition.
I·
for the last twenty years has no building of its own· but occu pies a room in a mill which is a noisy place ;
(b) whether the provincial Government granted a sum for a building. for the dispensary ;
(c) the amount and date of this grant ; (a) the reason why that money has not been utilised for the purpose
so far? · _ The .. Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : {a) The : building
rented for the dispensary has a mill in a part of it. · (b) Yes.
· (c) Rs. 7,000 on 8th December 1922. (d) It is reported that the failure to construct a building is clue partly
to the difficulty of acquiring a suitable site and partly to financial string · ency. A building is however now being constructed.
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
1 VoJ. \11, page 488.
MURDEROUS ASSAULTS ON HINDUS.
!709. Cbaudhri Ram. Singh·: (a) Will the Honoura.ble the Finance· Member'kindfy' sfat'e whether it''lfas been brought to bis notice that it has
:·'··:,- ;._ ' ,, ' . . .. ·-· . . . ' - . ,. .
BOOK ENTITLED "MAHARISHI 01' THE 19TH CENTURY ".
*70~. Chaudhri Ram Singh: (a) With reference to the statement made 'by the 'Governnient 'in answer to Council question1 No. 996 and the supplementary questions thereto put on 18th November 1924, that "though the book entitled ' Maharishi of the Nineteenth Century ' contained langu age which was open to objection, it was decided not to prosecute as there was no ground for thinking that the book had attracted any general atten tion," will the Honourable the Finance Member please state the reasons why a. book which is regarded objectionable by the Governmenft ~ been allowed unrestricted circulation ? · · ·· ·· · ·
(b) Will the Honourable the Finance Member also please state whether Government proposes to proscribe the book now?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey de~9~JP1C?~~!l~f: (~) The honourable member has 011 previous occasions been given the reaf,orJ,~ ~PY G(?vermnent did not take action when this book was first published, In the opinion of Government the subsequent increase in the circulation of thls bqok iii hugely the result of agite.tiori, and in such circumstances it sees no F~-J,f!,sp;nfor taking action 'when !PPie than 4 years have elapsed since the book was first published. It is suggested to the honourable member the t if he wishes that the circulation of this book should not be incfoased, he should relraih front constantly bringing it to the notioe of the public (laughter).
(b) No.
•
0ART00)l IN HISSAR+lSLAl\I, LAHORE.
*707. Cb~udbri Ram S~gh : Has the attention of the Honourable the Finance Men;iber been drawn to a cartoon which appeared 'fu one of the October issues of the "Tlissar-f-Islam " of Lahore depicting a Muslim with a drawn dagger in his bands and Hindus trembling, quivering) Il~elfig and clasping their hands before them ? If so, has Government tiUten any action against the person responsible for the appearance of the said cartoon 'l If not, why not? ' · · · · ·
' Th~ Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: The honourable member presumably refers to a cartoon which 'depicted in the firs] part, the Mahn bir Dal proceeding to conquer Kabul and in the second part to its defeat by a Muslim with a sword. No action was taken in regard to it be cirnse- it was doubtful whether e. prosecution would be successful.
[22?1fD N OVR, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1200 ~· ... ': _!
MURDEROUS ASSAULTS ON HINDUS.
*712. Chaudhri Ram Singh : Wiff the.· Ho;:tourable the Finance }Iernber please state whether any steps have been taken by the Government to stop further murderous attacks by Muslim fanatics on Hindus in the pro· vince ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deM:>ntm,rency: Government has taken and will continue to take r,11 possib.e .. n .a rrres to prevent any person of any community making 2 murderous u.U,\ ;k on any perso.i of the same or any other community. ·
ORDINANCE FOR '.I'HE SUPPRESSION Of C9MMU'NAL DISTURBANCES.
*711. Chaudhri Ram Singh: Will the Honourable Finance Member kin.dly sta~e whether ~t is a f~c.t that the Punjab Govern~ent .contemplatss promulgating au Ordinance like that of the Bengal Ordinance to suppress communal disturbances in the Punjab ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: No. J may point out that a reference to section 72, Government of India Act, will show that the power to take such action is not vested in the local Government by statute. _
•• THE HISTORY OE' S1K:iJ: Gtrsus AND. THE :a1h'.io1dN i>F Gunn NANAK,'' "'110:. thaudhri1 Rana $irigli : Will the Honourable the &anoe
Member kindly state- . (a) wheth~ it is a· fact.that one Maulvi Abdul Rahman o·f Qadian
b'as. priblisned a book entitled " The History of Sikh Gurus and the Bsligion of Guru Nanak" which offers insult to Sikhism;
(b) whether any steps have been taken by the Government aga1nst the publisher of the book ? If not, why not ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey cfe't•fontmorency: (a) Yes. (b) No. The Government understands that the book has been with
drawn from circulation and is practically riot obtains blo,
beeJ?. alleged. b .. Y., 1 the Hilid.u p)lb.µc ~. nd t. h~ Pries th~t the rec~p,t m~4!)rOus Uta\m~" of l(afillmm.adans' on Hiffitus are the -re~b.lt · of &O.' organised.· COn· spiraoy? .
,,(br ff}h:e,ans~er ~9 (arabove be',i~ t~el\~~tive;wilf~ha Honourable 1d'en:iber Jnndly state what steps the lloverntneut ffave taken to prevent the ~ectttnfnci·of sli'ch events and to utieiirth the oon~piraoy, if there is any, that is working behind thein ?
The ll~itourable· Sir Ceoffr~y d~Montmoreiicy : (a) Yes. (b) Very careful enquiries which have been conducted under the in
structions of Government as to the existence of an alleged conspiracy have failed to reveal any evidence which would support the allegations of a -conspiracy.·
APPOINTMENT OF AN INDIAN DEPUTY SECRETARY, REVENUE DEP!RTME.NT.
*715. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chbotu Ram : Will the Honourable the Finance Member kindly state-
(a) whether the post of a Revenue Secretary has been recently created; (b) whether the Government intend to appoint an Indian with sec
retariat experience as hie Deputy ? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency.: (a) The post
of Revenue Secretary has been recently revived.
ACTION AGAINST KHILAFAT NEWSPAPER FOR ITS ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THE POLICE,
*714. Rai Sahib Lala Ganga Ram: (a) Will the Honourable Finance Member be pleased to state whether the attention of the Government has been drawn to the article headed " Punjab Police " in t~)\filap, dated 27th July 1927, page 4?
(b) What action has been taken or is intended to be taken against the allegations made by the Khilafat newspaper, dated the 22nd May 1927, condemning the attitude of the Punjab Police?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : (a) Govern· ment's attertion had not previously been drawn to this article.
(b) It is not intended to te ke any action.
SHAH NEHJl, MuKARIAN.
_ . *713. Chauclhri Ram Singh:· (i) Will the Honourable the Revenue Member kindly state-- · ·
(a) the extent of the area of land, in each village, situated on Shah Nehr, Mukarian, in which rice was cultivated in Khari! 1926 and the proportion of matured crop and Kharaba out of it;
(b) the extent of the area of land, in each village, situated on S~ab. Nehr, Mukarian, in which rice has been cultivated in Kharif 1927 and the proportion of matured crop and Kharif out of it?
(ii) Will he kindly also supply similar information with regard to the area of land situated on the private canals in tahsil Dasuha, district Hoshiarpur, paying 10 per cent. as tribute to Shah Nebr Department ?
(iii) Will the honourable member kindly further state- . (a) whether it is a fact that Government contemplates decreasing
the area irrigated by private canals; (b) the number of applications receivedthis year by officers of Shah
Nehr Department complaining about the deficiency of water for irrigation purposes and the action taken on them ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Faz} .. i .. Husain: It is regretted that the reply to this question is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
[22No Nova. 1927. l'UNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNOIL, 1202
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) Yes. (b) Yes; both.
(c) Under orders of the Legal Remembrancer .
. (d) Yes.
*'117. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram: Will the Honourable the Finance Member kindly state- '
(a) whether a gentleman named Lala Ratan: Lal, B.A., LL.B., has been placed on the approved list of candidates for public proseoutorship in the Rohta.k District in the current year ;
(~) whether the District Magistrate and Sessions Judge of Rohtak, or either of them, recommended him for being placed on the list of the district ;
(c) how the gentleman came to be entered on the list;
(d) whether the gentleman belongs to Rohtak or has ever practised. at Rohta.k;
(e) what tribe the gentleman belongs to;
(f) whether the tribe to which he belongs is under-represented in the cadre of public prosecutors;
(g) whether it is the Government's ordinary practice to enter on the 'approved list of candidates men. not belonging to the dis trict concerned ?
LALA RATA!il LAL, A CAc'<DlDATE FOR PUBLIC PROSECUTORSHIP,
,
' The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: The honourable member is referred to the statement showing the state of various accounts, such as Revenue, Capital, &c., which accompanies the explanatory memoran dum on the supplementary demcuds by the Finance Secretary.
*716. Rai Sahib Chaudbri Chhotu Ram : Will the Honourable the Finance Member kindly state the variations between the estimates and actuals of income and expenditure for 1926-27, under the various recognised heads, such as Revenue, Capital, etc.?
VARIATIONS BETWEEN THE ESTIMATES AND ACTUALS OF INCOME AND EXPENDITURE.
(v) The Senior and Junior Secretaries to the Financial Commisaionars are at present Deputy Secretaries to Government in the Revenue Depart .. ment, One of these is an Indian Officer, The present Under-Secretary in the Revenue Department is also an Indian.
r
1203 STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
'
PAYMENT FOR WATCH AND W,AJtD.
~719. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Clih"otu Ram : Will the Honourable the Revenue Member kindly state- · ·
(a) whether the police required for watch and ward in most towns is paid for by the Government ;
(b) whether the chaukidars in villages are paid for by the vil- lagers; ·
(c) the grounds on which the Government justifies this invidious distinction ;
{d) whether the Government is awai;e that there is no dearth o.f / arts and law graduates now among Hindu Jats and if the
. Government is not aware of this, whether it will care to make enquiries from the . Depu.ty Commissioners , of the Ambala Division; ·
(e) whether, if. young men of the requisite qualifications, educational · and otherwise, are forthcoming from the ranks of this tribe,
the Government will give the next two vacancies to Hindu Jats ; if not, whether the. Government will explain the reasons for 'its teiusa.l to do this ?
·rh·e Roliourable Sir Geoffrey deMontm.orency : It is regretted 'that a reply. cannot be given for want of necessary information. A reply will be sent to the honourable member in due course.
now;
APPOINTMENT cii A H1Nn·u J.i.T AS INSPECTOR OF P~LicE·. *·718; R'1 Sahib Cha'udliri Chhotu Ram· : Will the Honourable
-the Finance Member kindly stste-> (a) whether, in 1918 or thereabout, the Inspector-General of );>olice
held out an assurance in answer to a Council question thatJ~~ would appoint at least one Hindu Jat as Inspector as soon
. as vacancies occurred ;
(b) whether that promise has been redeemed;
(c) whether · the Government is prepared to redeem that promise
[Bon. Sir Geoffrey deMontmoreney]' · ' (eY Ag~~arvaiflh. .
(f) There is no Aggarwal Vaish amongst the Public Prosecutors at present.
(g) No; but there is no bar to such enrolment.
[22ND Nova. 1007. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNOil.,, 1204
.-·-__.:J
• 1pages ill7-lH9 ante.
BRIDGES ·oN R.AJBAHAs ox MoGA·KoTKAPUBA Roan,
399. Mr. E. Maya Das.: Will the Honourable Revenue Memb~i . be pleased to state-
(a) whether Government is aware that the bridges constructed by the Canal Department on Rsjbahaa on Moga-Kotkapura Road, in miles 8 and. 18 are so built as not to be sufficiently safe fo~
· vehicular traffic, particularly motor traffic ; .
0.A.TTLE l'AIRS •
. 398. Mr. E. Maya Das : Will the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to lay a statement on the table showing the number of cattle fairs and their r9speetive receipts, held by the municipal committees in the .Punjsb during the last financial year ?
Will he be further pleased to state whether these municipal committees incurred any expenditure during the la.st financial year for the improvement. of c~ttle breeding or for fighting cattle diseases, apart from prizes given at fairs ? · If so, to what extent ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: Thehonourablemem. ber is referred to the answer given to Councill question No. 858.
UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
(d) whether these cha-ukidar& are appointed and dismissed by the ·village ...community or by Rewuiue officers:
(e) the justification for the anamolous position that, while the obligation to pay rests on village communities, power of appointment and dismissal rests with Revenue officers;
(f) \\'<•ether the Government is prepared to pay for the watch and. . vard of villages as in the' case of towns and, if not, why not?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: (a) In all the head quarters and very large towns end in some of the smeller towns the police are paid by the Government.
(b) Yes. (e) The present system_of paymer t for ehaukide rs by villagers bas been
in existence from time immemorial, and a change would impose a heavy bur den upon provincial finances.
(d) The appointment and dismissal of chaukidsrs rests with Deputy Commissioners or officers duly authorised by them. The nomination to tbs: post c,f chaukidars is made by the village headman.
(e) The watchman is primarily the servant of the village community, but his duties are such as to render it desirable that he should be under the- control of the Deputy Commissioner. ·
(J) No, in view of the cost involved.
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
I I I
•
GR.ANTS '1'0 DlStJlici'' nQA.@il.
402. Mr. E. M~~a Dai: Will the H~:~~bie :ijiµ~.~ f&r 4-&rj;Q~lr. t\lfe be plea.se9 to et_ate whe~lier sr.a.nts to d_i~trj,et 99ards giy~ ~y the a.mtW,roations Boo?d for cons~tion of:nevt'.. toJ.<k a. re 'gfv.en' so· muoh for a road irrespaetive of lhG eonsiclemtion whether the work is completed in one year or spread over a number Qf years, or whether the grants sre g iven 7ear by yea_~-? ·
1'e, Ho~e>_ll(a~I, ~,.::cw Jqg~a $.iMh. :. A.s fiA~ ¥ p~ble, y-.r by year. . .. . . . '. ., .. . 'a' •.• ' .: . •
CENBU~ 011' PLOUG.HS.
· 401. Mr. E. Maya Dai : Will the Honourable :Minister for Agricul ture be pleased *-1l_ ~~te whetb.er 8 census of ploughs hai heen' taken; if so, will he be pleased to state the number of ploughs worked by animals in each district?
lbe llc,nour.able Sarcl.r Jogendra Sindl: A quillquoo.nia~ ~eneus of ploughs w~ taken in 19':lS rn<l. the inform~tion asked for by the ~qij~~-¥3 J49P.)haj.- wi» ~ ~ i.n st,atsmeot Yll on page X-XX"; of the .Report. on the saait>U a,d riropa .of .. tae Funja.b f<;>r th~ ye.u 19~-i6., a oopy of wll,ioh is 1,id OP. the ta ble.
' .\ J.,• .... - -<' ,- ' • ·, ' l '. t -· '<, ! . \ -,:'~ •.
--·
(11) the number of motor lorries plying for hire on ls.t Ja,n11:~ry 19.'~7 .·· ·. licensed by the Moga municipal committee and th~· -~~ount. .. ; realised by' the committee ati fees ; · · ·
(h) the corresponding number on 1st January 1926 a,i;i._~ \~e. ~¥19W1t realised in 'fees· 'l . . . \ . . . . . . . . ...
!flae Honour~ble ~1i: Firo,: ~, Nf!JOD: (a) a.11:d (~) t,Jo.~~l' Ultlif8. plyin~ tot. Mr~·'are noi lfoMlsM by the corii~ittee: '. . . , .
MOTOR LORRIES LICBNSJ:D BY THE MooA MUNICIPAL Coxxn:TB~.
'9(). Mr. E. Maya Das : Will the Honourable Ministm-. f~ . Local SeJf,.Qovernment be 'pleased to state-'.... · .\·: .: , ~ • '-·" • ,· .. ·· , •· . ·.• • • . • . . .
p~r ·, Ip. ~,,1,, i;?~s-J (b) whether it is a. faet .that a. number of accidents have occurred
at lh~~ pke~ ; · v '
(e) wh.ether the 90,rernmentj propo~es to remodel th~ bridges ? The Honourable. Mian Sir Fazl-i-ijl}sain: The i.rt1,mnation
. requited is 11-0i Q\"8i14ble at headqrilutt1i:s 1':rid' li~~ be(lil called for from local o.mo.s. Th~ mfori'nAtion, when reodv, will be communicated to the honour·
.,b~~ menlQElJ.'. . . . . • .•.
[22ND NoVR. 1927· l~6 . . -~ . ~ \ i
::::·1 :: Grand Total ...
Tot.I Rural
,lullundur e11m Ludhiana (Non-M.uha~dahJ ...
'Lahore and Fe:rozepore cum She~h_n,por.a (N~~~~~.SV'ft~~~-, ~.~ ~'!.~ ~llf-!1.tt!~W Wfn·¥1!~~'.1'.\5td~) ,~ ,:r Jb,,n.lpindi Division and Lahore Diviaion (North) (Non·
llnhammadan). llult•i~T111ion(::Won-Jd.ubamU1adan) , •
~,~~N~~~~!~~1~.a*.y> ~~.i~.{_lf~~~~-Q).
. ... ' '
.. • . "~
-r.. ~-· .:~ .I~-
~" l"<;>!!¥1t,~wma.~n}. :-So.uth-East ~Wt {:Non.Muham.m&dan)
.North-Weet Rohtak (Non-Muha~-,_~n)
-Ourgaon (Non-Muha-mmadan)
,K&rnal (Non-Muhnunadan) • • '. ll .;,,; ' . ~ .:
.Am.be.la e11m Simla __ ~CW,,·l,13Mw.~~Jt)
11,ha 880
I?,,32~ 109 . -6,.5,?~ 81
O,U,7. jq2. 6,569 619
10,$9_7 386
i~ 168
66,953 3,.17.'S ... ,. ... ~--···.:·.·· ·i,,.;, ~-,
12,ffl II
l~.,~3, 5
,l~~ .{
1'7,986 t
.10~~8 7
7~ ~·
:'lb~ .23
11,1,';2 65 . 11~,t-~ • 'l'-~ 36!
~~. ~l
18,273 _361
13,,937 l32 ...
Tot.I -Ul'b&n
:I,ahore City (Non-Muhammadan) ·
~i,t.lw ,qJty,(Jiol\,-¥.u,~.g:imad.a.r.i-)
::South-E~st Towns (Jion.~Mohan,rma~n.)
~~-~g~l?:,)\~' (~.tl~,tV\~l}-~I/-:) illla.st and Weiit Central Towna (Non-Muhammadan)
. North-We.at TowI18 ~N?n_-M.uhammadan)
°Wt'ollt Punjab Towns {N9n-Muham_madali1) t '" i · <-,··. - \1 ~--~ ,'41}: ~>- --: .. ,r~ •l..
-~ .:_;_~-~--~- -· ~--•"' .. ' .... ···-
· Tot&l number
<1~11 Vbte:rs.
~.I·....._. ,.: ,.. . .,..;..'/+·· • ,' .. • ·'-' :on -.....,_.,,~,.. ._._ •
~ame of Conatit}lency. ,,,,·_,.-, •r' !<..•;·.•"," -!\\,
_ ..•.• ,"..;:,;, .•. ;.,.;.: . ...:.. ...... -:,., '-i. ,,~ .lJ.i·, •. ~ ; ~;1:"~ •• ~ ... ;
J1.NSTABB:aD QU.&$TlON8 AND ANS-WERS,
The Honour.We Mian Sir Faz-l-i-Ha1ai11: Tile state,nnt asked ·• ;(Rf~·-~•~ P~ #m. ~-a.b).e. . .
1,074 Total
142 58
547
Donkeys Mules Ponies
TRE.ATME?j'T O'f ANIMALS AT THE VETElUNARY COLLEGPJ, L ... HORJI.
405. Mr. E. Maya Da,: Will the Honourable Minister for Agri·.·· culture be pleased to lay a statement on the table showing;.......
· (a) the number of cases tha;t were admitted for· treatment during" the last financial year at the Veterinary College, Lahore, .under"' the Act for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals;
• (b) the cost of treatment of these animals ; (e) tho amount recovered from the owners 1
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Sin1h: (a) One-thousand an<t' ,eventy-four as detailed below :-
Bullocks -. • 827
WBLLS n•. TllB JUI,LUNDUR DisTRIOT • . ;4N. Mr. E. Maya Dai: wm the Honourable Minister for Agrieul-
~me be pleased to lay a statement on the table showing- · (a) the number of wells in the Jullundur district affected by the falf.:
in the water table ; (b) the number .of those wells that have been so bored as to draw
their supply from a lower water table; • (c) the facilities afforded to the well owners to get their wells bored-
210 a.a to draw their water supply from a lower water table; (d) the extent of the area affected ?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: (a) 83,568, according: to revenue records.
(b) The total number of wells bored so as to draw their supply from i'.: .:· lower substratum from 30th June 1914 to 30th June 1927 is 273, out· of"· which 200 are successful.
(c) Facilities afforded are as follows ,:- (1) Three Well Borers are stationed in the district with full equip··
ment consisting of up-to-date boring plants, pipes and strainers, etc.
(2) One Well Supervisor is stationed a.t Jullundur. (8) The Department is also prepared to recommend applications ,
for the grant of taccavi loans under the provisions of the · Land Improvement Loans Act of 1888 to those who need" funds to meet the cost of pipes, strainers,· eto., required by· them for boring purposes.
(tl) Bl 5,842 acres, according to revenue records.
[22Nn NoVB. 1927 •. PUNJAB LBGI8LATIVB COUNCIL, 1208
.--- -- -- -------
:MEASURES Tl) OOUNTJUU.CT SlilEPAGJ!I,
408. Lala Gopal Daa: Will the Hono'.lra'Jle Member for Revenue · kindly sta ta what measures have so far been ta ken i 'l each dist riot to conn -teract the seepage and with what results 'l
The Honourable Miao Sir Fael-i-Husain : 'I'he atte ition of the 'honourable member is invited to paragraph l 7 (d) awl (") of the Lrnd Reve nue Administration Report c,f the Punjab for the year endi» g SJ th Beptember 1926, which gives au account of the measures taken to counteract seapag,
:in the province. 409. Please see pages 1261-62 i11.fra,
E}'PECT OF SEEPAGE ON AGR1':ULl'URAL LAND,
. 4111. Lala Gopal Das: Will the Honourable the Member for Re· ·venue kindly state what is the area of agricultural land in each district
.that bas been rendered unfit for cultivatioa O'.l·a'.l'.lTlnt of seepage from th11 irrigation canals 'l
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl ... i-Husain: Figures of area, spoiled by seepage, have not been collected on a uniform bvsis in all districts in thft past. An officer of the· Revenue Department has now been placed on
· special duty, as Civil Member of the Water-log~ing Enquiry Committee; for the purpose of ascertaining 0:1 a uniform basis the extent of water-Iogged Iand in those various districta of the province, which have been seriously affected. He hes started s survey of such areas h the districts of Gujrsn wal3, Sheikhupura, Sialkot, ,Thang, Shahpur n-id Gujrat for the present. As
· soon as his report is received Government will be i.i a position to furnish tht, information required by the honourable member. ·
r I
l·
RECRUITMBN1' OJ' CONSTABLES .A.ND HEAD CONSTA.BLES.
406. Lala Copal Das: Will the Honourable the FiMMe Member !kindly state from what castes and tribes are the constables a'li head -coristables in the present police force recruited 'l
Will he kindly give a statement showing by castes and tribe~. the -number of constables and head constables in each district 'l
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey d,'M ntm. >rency: The attention . of the honourable member is invited to Police Bulo 11 · l 2. The directions therein contained are generally followed. I re.:~ret that Government is unable to prepare the statement asked for in the last part of the qnestion, Q!I it will involve an amount of time and trouble which doas not i\ppeu to be jm1ti1ied in the ciroumstances.
(b) This information is not avail~ble as no separate aeoou-its are kept ,fc,r the treatment of such anim':\ls. It m~y be meationed, however, that while the figures under this head should, in additio:i to the 0011t of medicines, include a proportion of the pay of officers and assistants who superintend this work, the expenditure is more than eounterbalsuced by the faot that
. .these animals provide cases for the practical training of tho students o! ths -Uollege without which the students could not g~t the requisite training.
(t) No charge is recovered by the Civil Veterin~ry Department.
1209 UNB'U.R&•n QUJISTIONB AND. ANSWBR.S,
DRAINAGE SCHEME l'OR SHADIWAL,
- ,u~ Mr. Lal,b Singh: Will the Honourable the M'1ister for Local· Beli-Govemm~t please state- . .
(a) whether the drainage scheme for the town Shadiwal in the district .. of Gujrat, Punjab, bas been pending since 1894 ;
(b) whet,hei: . the Govern~~t is a'\Var~. t~at ~ht financial resources of the local committee of Shadiwal are . too poor to finance any satisfactory drainage scheme for the town ;
(e) whetll~r the Government is aware that ~he health of the town iir: suffering badly for want of proper drainage ;
(d) ·whether the Government intends to finance the dtauiiigij scheme- for the town entirely from . thEi provincial fm:tds ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noo,: (a) No. The first. seheme of which. there is any record \tis ~tepllted ffi. 918.
REVENUE ASSESSMENT IN LAHOllE URBAN AREA.
412. Lala Gopal Dai : · Will the Honourable Member for Revenue· kindlystate by what percentage· has the revenue asaesBm;ent in the L~hore· urban area been increased in the recent re-assessment ? Will the Honours bl(r }iember give reasons justifying this increase?
The Honourable Mian Sir FazJ.i.ffusain: The revenue e ssessmenj; of the Lshore urban 2 rea bas been increased 40 per cent. in the recent re Mseesment . . . The assessment hrs been based on the figures of rent charged on tbe ~djoining agricultural fonds and at one-third net assets standard has been adopted.
•
ARTIJ'ICIAL ghi . . ' - 'ffl. tali Copal Da, : Will the Honours ble !lmi~tei for LocaJ. S~H;Government kindly state whether the Government has moved munieips]. committees and town committees in. the matter of taking action against
!t:t!m!~~:ti:1t1~n ":H:f:~:tt!~ {~tlt:ieaa~i!~t~r%!fit~· ~!~ t:ll11;;: the matter~
. The Honour,i>le Ma.lik Fitoz Kht1ts, Noon : Nb.: but Go,;emrii en t ate fully alive to the importance of this matter, r.nd the steps that can be.· taken are being enrefuliy examined.
Co:0W1..ttt6:if t6i tit& iltd'illt sf iiWldi; 410 •.. · taia t:iriai Du : wii1 .. iih~ . B'.onourahie tiie . n.~"entte_ Meiiibe1'"
J>l~~& :~~~~t fh.~t ~~re~. o(agr_i~n(t,u~l l~nd h&s. ~~en grant~ in .the new cAnitl ct;loiues m beu of the land spoilt by seepage ?
lhe Honolirable Mlab: Sir Fail-r.liit-ain : A r"ef~rehce &iis iieen. mr de to the loc~l officei's and on r'~eipt of teply ~Ii an~ei' iilt be ebi6.fuuh1:· cated to the honouta-bJe ineinber.
·.-,~·' ---------··,·····- .
REMOVAL OF' EAR'.IH liY THE CANAL DEPARTMENT.
415. Mr. Labh Singh: (a) Will the Honourable Member for Re venue be pleased to state if the Government is aware -
(i) that earth required for making the annual or other repairs to the embankments of canals, minors and distributaries is generally t~ken Irom ptivate fields adjoining such Canals; i:nino:t$ OJ 4.istributaries ;
(ii} th.at this diggi~g of pits for earth in private fields causes an appreciable damage to the owners of sueh fields;
(iii) that as a rule no coxnpensll.tion is made to such owners for the· damage done to their lands arid crop~ by the removal of eatth?
ANGLO·VP:RNACULAR MIDDLE Scnoor, i'OR KLO:flEKOT •
. ~J.t. , Mr. Labh Singh: wm the Honourable Minister for Edueation be p1easea to state-
(a) whether the Government is aware that there is a great demand for an Anglo-Vernacular Middle School in Klorekot in the- Mianwa1i district ;
(~} whether it is a. fact tha.t the people of Klorekot were asked to· make contributions to the Education Department as a con dition precedent to the raising of the Primary school to the lower Middle Standard and then again to the raising of the latter to the Upper Middle Standard ;
(e) whether it is also a fact that the site for the school buildings; etc., was granted free of cost by a local representative of the people;
(d) whether the people have petitioned to the Education Depa.ttment. more than once that the school be turned into an Anglo-Ver nacular Middle School ;
(e) whether Government, in view of all the circumstances of the· case, intends to accede to the persistent requests of the· people?
The. Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The school has been con vetted into an Anglo-Vernf\cular Middle School with effect from the lst April 1927.
(b) YeA. (c) No, · . (d) is tiie.. committee is not prepared to raise tunds even for the main
tenance of the scheme, the suggestion of finnncing the project from provin cial rev~iihes is premature,
------- ------ .... ----- --
. -.
.COPY OF ARTICLE~ 144 A~D 14:5 OF 'TIHE IRRIGATION t MANUAL OF ORDERS. . LAND REQUIRED FOR BORROW PITS.
~N!:[;;t .144 .. 1 .. Th~ following rules should be observed with r~gard to digging .i,.ted 21at borrow pits in privately owned lands for the supply of spoil for the main '-n11M'fl~. tenance of Canal Channels, and to the award of compensation for damage · done to such land. Cans) Officers should, however, carefully avoid entering
on privately owned lands, at times when any loss will result to the interests of oultivators :-
(i) Spoil is in no case to be obtained from privately owned land. on which crops exists, or which has been ploughed for cropping; except in the case of breaches or for prevention of accidents, when the procedure, laid down in section 15 of the Canal Act, should be followed.
(ii) Where high banks exists, likely to demand constant repairs- . land should be specially acquired for borrow pits. (iii) Where the quantity of spoiJ likelr to be r?quired is small, repairs,
. · except in the cases mentioned in rule (i) above, should only be executed when there are no crops on the ground, and when spoil can be obtained and the bottom of the borrow pit left in a clear level condition fit for ploughing by the time the ground has to be prepared for the next crop. _ In no such case are the pits to exceed one foot in depth, measured from the original nature.I surface level. Borrow pits, for the supply of spoil
[22ND Nova, 19'27, PUNJAB LEOISLATIVB COUNCIL. 1212
{Mr. La-bh Singh.] (b) If the answer to question {a) be in the affirmative, is it the intention
of Government- (i). to issue instructions that no earth for repairing banks be taken
from privately owned lands ; _ (ii) to grant adequate compensation to the owners in case earth is
unavoidably removed from private lands? The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i·Husain: (a) (i) On channels
,where heavy recurring repairs are necessary land has been permanently .acquired by the Irrigation Branch for taking earth from.
At other placea where repairs are not heavy or recurring, earth is takenc, -from privately owned land.
(ii) and (iii) Clear and detailed orders exist in the Irrigation Manual of 'Orders on the subject,-vide paragraph 144 and 145, copy of which jg en· .elosed for reference. The procedure laid dowr eliminates chances of damage. [fonder some special and exceptional circumstances damage is unavoidable the Department readily meets claims made.
(b) (i) and (ii) The existing rules t.:-e full and clearon the subject and Government does not think it necessary to take a~y further action .
""""."'- .. ,,.,-_....,, .» .,,,.,,,-_- -:---. ---,-'"7 ·-· ,_, - '-~-
CoHPENSATION FOR LAND TAKEN FOR BORROW PITS.
145. Compensation for damage done to land should usually only be necessary in the following cases :-:-
(a) Destruction of standing crops. (b) Prevention of cultivation for a certain time. (c) Removal of earth from ploughed or sown land. (d) Removal of earth to a greater depth than one foot. (e) Removal of earth a second time from the same area when the
aggregate effect is to lower the original surface of the ground by more than one foot.
2. Except. in the case of 1 (i) of Article 144, it is possible under careful management, to execute work at such times and in such a manner as will
.obviste demands for compensation being made in any of the cases (a) to (e) inclusive.
8. When earth has been removed from private land, the sides of the borrow pits should be ploughed down and tho bottoms ploughed over, so as
·to make cultivation easy for the owners, at the time of entry on the land, the owners and cultivators should be informed that this will be carried out,
.and strict compliance should be observed. If compensation is claimed, the following general principles should be followed:-
Compensation is chargeable to I. B.-M:aintenance and Repairs, L. Earthwork, and should be provided for in a separate estimate, so as to maintain an easily accessible record of compensation paid. The ordinary repairs estimate should contain a. note to the effect that a certain amount · 'Will probably be required for compensation. Compensation in each of the
~nve oases montionsd in paragraph 1 above should be assessed as follows:- . (a) De.rlruction of standing crops.-The average outturn as recorded
at last settlement in the Assessment Reports, multiplied by the probable market price of the next harvest less any fluctuating rates, such as occupiers rates, will be the amount fairly payable on ordinary occasions. In the case of minor crops, the value of which is not worked out in the Assess ment Reports, the rates given in Statistical Statement III- · E should be used. Average crops should generally be treated as 16 anna crops, but for very poor crops the compensation should be reduced proportionately ; otherwise the procedure would probably lead to discontent : Provided a crop is in
i :
are in no case to be 'dug on the sites of pits dug on previous occasions, as this would result in lowering the surface to an extent liable to collect water and to render the ground less suitable for cultivation.
~iti) No borrow: pits are to be dug within l 0. feet ,of the boundary of canal land.
(v) Officers should be careful to carry out operations of this kind at times when agricultural interests will not snffer.
1218 · UNSTARRED QUBSTIONS AND AN:SWERB,
KHAt KkunAr ca . .i.:Ro:i;:s.
. .ft~. , Mr. Lahla Singh: (i) WIII the Ho:1ourable Member for Revenue be pleased to ata.te-
(a) vvhe~.her it is a _fact,t~a~. ~h~ canal ~epartment ~as been charging .. th~ owners of cr.nal-1rrigiited Jande at tM rate of annas 8 per· acrfl ttti 1l.'eoount bf KMl Khhdtri ~ha~ ;
·:t;..f . ._... '""'li -· ~·. - - .
[Hori. Miaa Sir Fazl-i-Husi:1.in.] good condition. its value sa a matur&d 'crop fhould be paid. irrespective of the stage of ita growth;
ft,) Cumpensation for. prevention. of cultfoation . Jot a certain time.-On single cropped land, cultivated by the owner, the compensa tion should take the form of one year) rent, counting from the ordinary date of preparing the land for. the crop not sown, plus 15 per cent., on account of disturbance.
On double cropped land, if neither crop could be ~rown, compensa • tion should be paid as in the case of single cropped land, at the loss of rent for the two crops plus 15 per cent. If only one crop is prevented, the compensation paid should bear the same proportion to the total rent at the value of the crop not grown bears to the total value of the two crops. The amount of nett profits is not always easy to find out and the land revenue assessment, though based theoretically on the rent, is but a poor guide to a Canal Officer in assessing the rent. In the, case of land cultivated by tenants having a right of occupancy,
. the compensation should comprise a fair allowance for the rent they pay the owner, together with an additional allowance for loss of profits from cultivation. Each Executive Engineer should frame once for all a period. of five years an estimate of the rentals to be assumed for the purposes of these rules · for single and double cropped land (1) irrigated by canal, (2) irrigated by wells, and (3) unirrigated. Such estimate should be prepared with the help and advice of the Collector and should be submitted to the Superintending Engineer for approval ..
(e) Compensation for the remo1.,-al of earth from ploughed or sown wnd. Cost of ploughing plus rent for half or whole year as tho case may be, according to whether tho land is single or double cropped, plus 15 per cent. of the latter on account of loss of profits, for ploughed land; occupied for borrow pits. If sown an average or good crop rate should be paid according to the quality of the land, as prescribed undor (a} above.
_ (d) and (e) Compensation for pits over l foot deep.-'Tihese cases . should generally be proh'ibitod, but when unavof<!able, they must be dealt with as special cases on their merits and very liberal compensation should be given.
(22ND NoVR. 1927~ PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, :..·,_-ti,.;_·
1214
BAJ"i.AT ILAQA. IN TiiE S:tALKbT DiST:RICT.
418. Mr. Labh Singh: (a) Will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased. to state-c... .
(i) whether it i~ ~. fifot that ~li~ supply of river ~ater to Ilaqa Baj'wllt in the Sialkot 'di~tricthaiJ been in various parts of the Ilaqa either considerably cutfai.Htld or altbgethet stopped ;
(i,) whether the Government is aware that the market value of agricultural land in Bajwat has gone down by 4oO per cent. ; if not that, by how much ; .
(iit) whether it is a fact that the agncrilturnl population ot Bajwa.t ha_s. been peti~i~f!.ing .t.he. l~&l authoritie~ to enq~e _il;lto ~h& causes of deficient water supply from the river and for adopting suitable remedial measures to restore the original condition ;
417. Mr. Labh Singh: Will the Honourable Minister for· Agticulture be pleased to state if any steps have been taken to construct a bridge over the Bhimbar Nala on the Gujrat-Kunjah Road by the District Board of (fu.jrat or if the district board is unable to do anything in the matter, then, by the Punjab Government ?
. The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: No steps have been taken by the District Board of Glljra.t to bridge the Bhimbar. If a proposa~r now tinder consideration, to include tho Gujrat-Kunjah road in an arterial alignment, becomes effective, then the bridging of this river will be takeri into consideration along with the general programme of the improvement of arterial roads.
BRIDGE ovna BHIMBER NAtA ON THE GuJRAT-KL'NJAH ROAD,
(b) whether the Government is aware that no such Ktiats (watei:~ . courses) have; ever. been, dng by the canal aep~ttxtl'enti. and that
they are consttueied .:mly by the private penfons concerned ; (i) whether the Govlll'nrilent ii: ''*11fe that tll:eti is a conaiderabl'"
feeling in the country-tide i.~st this ~'iaction being: made'}
(~ boei do"enimeht intehd ~ . . (a) to refund the money 80 far rec&ived under this head ; or (b) at any rate to discontinue the imposition of this rate in future?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fliti4 .. Httiain (i) (a) Yes. (b) No.
· , (c) Government is awafe that there is some feeling against thi~ in certain 1ocatitie:e.
(ii) (a) No. (b) The recovery has already been discontinued on one canal, the Upper
Chenab, pending an examination of the accounts.
----- ------ ---- ------
419. Rai Sahib Lala Ganga Ram : Will the Honourable the Mi.nit· :ter lor Local Self-Government be pleased to state-
( t). the annual income derived from and the annual expenditure · incurred on the Gopal Mochana fair ( Ambala district) by
the District Board, Amba.la, for the last five years and how the balance is utilised.;
(ii) the condition of the kachcha road from Bilaspur to Gopal Moohana.;
(m) the approximate amount to metal the road ;
{iv) the amount spent on the annual repairs of the road during th& last five years ?
KACHCHA ROAD FROM B1LASPUR TO GOP.AL )foCHAli!A.
,[Mr. La.bh Singh.] (w) whether it is a faot that no proper investigation has been or
dered in respect of the complaint, and that the people con tinue to clamour for their riparian rights witllout any response
-- · from the authorities concerned ;
(t,) whether it is a fact that this interference with the supply of water is due to the Canal Head Works designed and executed by the Kashmir State;
(tit.') whether the Government approved of the engineering scheme for the said Canal Head Works; ·
(vii) whether the Government took any steps for ensuring compen sation for the people of Bajwat for the gross injury caused to their vested rights ;
(viii) whether it is a fact that despite the discontinuance of water supply the revenue rates charged from Bajwat Ilaqa are the same &s for canal-irrigated areas ;
(~) it there are any proposals on foot to permanently reduce the revenue assessment rr,tes applicable to the Ilaqa ;
(z) whether the Government intends instituting a comprehensive enquiry into the problem of reduced water supply?
(b) Will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased to Jay on -the table the correspondence between the Punjab Government and the Kashmir State authorities, if any has taken place on the subject ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i .. Husain: I regret that the answer - to this question is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honourable -member when ready.
(22No Nova. 1927. PUNJAB Ll!IOI8LA1'IV:S COUNCIL, :1216
--· -··-···--
420. Rai Sahib Lala Ganga Ram : Will the Honourable the Minis·. ter for Local Self-Government be pleased to lay a statement. on the table. 1howing by districts, during the last financial year-
(a) the amount spent on travelling allowance of district board mem·· · hers;
(b) the amount of travelling allowance drawn by Vice.Presidents of district boards ? Where there is more than one Vico·PreBident" and both have drawn travelling allowance, a note to that
. effect may kindly be given.
. ~lUVBLLING :&LLOWA.NCE 01' MEMBERS AND VICE-PRESIDENTS (,)P DISTRICT BOARDS.
1.
The surplus goes to the general revenues of the District Board, Ambala.,_. .. which supervises the fair.
(ii) This road approximately 2 miles in length is only a village track and not on the sanctioned list of district board roads. As such it is quite· good and serviceable.
(iii) Rupees thirty thousand.
(iv) This being merely a village track and not a recognised road, no separate accounts are kept of its maintenance, but it is repaired annually at the time of the small Gopa.l M:ochana fair and about Rs. 100 is spent. in so doing •
Yel\t, Income. .Expenditurt>, I Surplue.
Rs. Rs. Rs.
I, 1922-23 .. .. .. 616 275 341
2. 102a.2, .. .. .. 634 279 355- . s, 1924,25 .. .. .. 587 283 3°'·
4. 1926-26 .. .. .. 914 339 576
Ii. 1926,27 .. .. .. 1,060 420 641)
Total .. 3,811 1,696 2,215
'tulloMurahle Malik Firoz Khan Noon: (i) The annual income derived from and the annual expenditure incurred on the Gopal ~c,oha.n~ fair by the District Board, Ambala, is:-
121r . UNSTARRBD QUJJSTIONS .A.NJ> ANSWERS,
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l!NlilTARR_.D QU,IIIJTIONS ... AND ANSWBRS, l~H> i.:.L "''
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4U; Dr. Sbaifda Mnhammaa Alam: Will the Honourable .th~ llinister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state-
(a) whether any regard was paid to the claims of non-Khoja Muslim population of Chiniot in making the recent nominations ot Muslims to serve on the Chiniot municipal committee;
(b) whether it is a fact that the learned Commissioner did not nominate any member from the non-Khoja population which forms about two-thirds of the whole Muslim abadi of that town ;
(e) "Whether it is a fact that the learned Commissioner nominated Shaikh Dost Muhammad directly without any recommenda tion of the Deputy Commissioner;
(d) whether it is a fact that Shaikh Mahbub Ilahi was nominated with out his consent or application during his absence from India when he was away on pilgrimage;
(e) the reasons why no member of the non-K hoja Muslim population. in Chiniot was nominated;
{j) the grounds on which the recommendation of the Deputy Com· missioner in favour of a non-Khojs to represent the labour class· was rejected by the Commissioner;
(g) ~hether it is a fact -that the President-elect of Chiniot muni cipa.lity is about 80 years of age and is unable to attend to bis officia.,! duties ;
(h) whether it is a fact that the said President cannot even write Urdu except scribbling his signatures ;
(i) whether it is a fact that objections were raised on grounds of incompetency and incapability of the said President before the Deputy Commissioner, but he recommended a trial for him ;
(j) whether a representation was made to the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government expressing grievances over recent nominations in Chiniot municipality and for incompetency and incapability of the P~esident..elect ;
(kJ whether it is a fact that a deputation of Chiniot- Mnsalmana waited upon the Honourable the Minister for Local Self· Government for purposes mentioned in the above question ;
(l) what setion has been taken by tha Honourable Minister in this matter?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a), (b) and: (e). Nei , ther Government nor the officers of Government to whom the power of making appointments to local bodies has been delegated in certain classes
, of cases, attempt to. complicate communal representation by consideration . of the internal divisions of the main communities.
, (c) and (f) Government are not prepared to make any statemen(with regard to the recommendations of local officers in such cases.
1220 * .;h NOHINATIONS TO 0HINIOT MUNICIPAL .COMMITTEE.
·~ [22ND Nova. 1921~ PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL,
ASSISTANCE FOR STUDENTS SEEKlNG EMPLOYMENT.
424. ~. E. Maya Das: Will the Honourable the Minister for Edu· cation be pleased to state whether in Government schools and colleges, when students have completed their course, any effort is made to assist them to place them in positions as would enable them to earn a living ? If so-
(a) in how many institutions was this done during the last finan cial year;
(b) with what results; (c) what percentage of students succeeded in obtaining work through
the help of such institutions ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Considerable efforts are made in Colleges to help students in seeking employment on the oornpletion of their educational course. In training institutions very great success is achieved and it is in regard to this alone actual statistics are available. '.Dhe following figures will show how far students after completing a training course for teachers in the Central Tmining College and in the two Government
F
.,
/ EDUCATION OF DEPRESSED CLASSES,
V 423. Mr. E. Maya Das: WiH the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased to lay a statement on the table showing the names of districts where schools have been specially opened for depressed classes, also the number of schools per district, as well as the percentage of boys of the depressed classes of school-going age attending such schools?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The information is being collected and will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
BACKWARD COMMUNITIES.
· 422. Mr. E. Maya Das: Will the Honourable Minister for Educa tion be pleased to lay a statement on the table showing the names of com munities or classes by districts known to be backward educationally ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Enquiries are being made and a reply will be sent to tho honourable member when ready.
(d) The gentleman in question was temporarily absent on pilgrimage but had previously expressed a desire to be appointed.
0) and (h) No. (i) Yes. (j) T·wo gentlemen from Chiniot did see me and make the complaints
mentioned in this question. (k) Yes. (l) The matter is being looked into.
• ~,;.·
UNSTARRED QUESTION-8 .AND ANSWERS, 1221
.. ,~ ''.'•· . , .
FACILITIES FOR STUDENTS TO EARN MO~EY I~ SPARE TIME.
425. Mr. E. Maya Das: Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased to state whether in Government schools and colleges any facilities are afforded to enable such students as wish to do so to earn a little money in their spare time? ·
· The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : l. In vernacular training institutions where handicrafts and manual labour are a part of the training experiments are being made in the matter of remuneration for work done. ,-
2. A recently appointed committee is taking up the question of remune- zation for work done by school boys on school farms. ·
•The remainder got employment direct. . t-Thc remainder were either the nominees of the N.-W. F. P., or those who already held
liens on . posts elsewhere.
2, Statistics are not available about the ordinary college students who obatinsd employment through the help of the institutions that they were attending but the Principals concerned report that they make all such effort as. is possible for thorn in assisting students to obtain employment. Government College, Lahore, claims that it may be considered the most important employment agency in the province. It is found that the re commendation of the Principals carries very great weight and thus the college has a definite liaison with Government departments' with the result, that a large number of men are placed. In dealing with the enormous number of students that pass through schools and colleges it is impossible to give definite figures as so many rely merely on letters of recommendation from the heads of schools and colleges and do not report their success or failure in obtaining employment.
' i i,
JOO 61t
100 100
50*
70*
(1) Central Training College, Lahorc--;
B. T. Class
S. A. V. Class
O. T. Class
P. T. Class
(2) J. A. V. Class, Government Interme diate College, Lyallpur
(3) J. A~ V. Class, Multan College, Lahore
Pcrcentaqe of st·udents obt:n·ning icork through the
help of the institution.
Name of the class or institution.
[ Hon. Mr. Manohar Lal.] Junior Anglo-Vernacular classes, have been successful in gaining employ ment through the help of the institution concemed i->
[22Nu Nova, 1W7. PUNJAB L]ilOJSL.ATIVE COCNCIL. ·1222
· 428. Mr. E. Maya Das : Will the Honourable _the Mi?ist~ for .Agriculture be pleased to lay a statement on the table showing by districts :-'-
( i) (a) the average cost per annum of feeding a cow in towns;]
(b) the average cost par annum of feeding a cow in villages~
(c) the average cost of feeding a buffalo in towns;
(d) the average cost of Ieeeding a buffalo in villages;
MAINTENANCE CHARGES AND YIELD OF MILK OF COWS AND BUFFALOES.
427. Mr. E. Maya Das : (a) Will the Hon~rable the Minister for Education be pleased to state if the system prevails in schools according to which the height and weight of students are noted down?
(b) If so, since what year have these statistics of boys appearing for the Entrance Examination or studying in any other class been recorded?
(c) Will the Government be pleased to lay a statement on the table showing the average height and weight per student since then to the present time year by year ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The system of medical inspection and record introduced in a.11 schools in 1915 was interrupted by the shortage of medical officers available (Turing and after the War. Its re-introduction proved unsatisfactory and experiments have been in· stituted with a view to developing a more satisfactory system. Experi ments are being carried out in selected areas but no statistics having any provincial application are available. Such information as is available is being collected. ,
STATIS'fICS REGARDIKG HEIGHT AKD WEIGHT OF BOYS,
SIKH KANYA MAHA VIDYALA, l!'EROZEPO!lE CITY.
426. Mr. E. Maya Das: Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased to state-« . .
(a) the amount of want pa~d to the Sikh Kanya Ma.ha. Vidya.la., Ferozepore City, during the last financial year ;
(b) the number of girls studying in the school;
(c) the number of boarders in the school?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Rs. 4,098.
(b) One hundred and eighty-four-17 m High, 24 in Middle, and the- rest in the Primary. · · · ·
(c) One hundred and eleven.
1228 UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
(d) and (e) In case of failure the pipes are taken out from the wells except in cases where the well-owners do not allow the removal of pipes: In such cases the· cost thereof is recovered from them. Such instances are however rare.
(a) 108.
(b) Average cost per well including cost of pipes, strainers, footage allowance, overhead charge and carriage of plant comes to Rs: 168. This amount does not include labour which varies according to the depth and strata of the bore. The zemindars. generally do this work themselves and have therefore nothing to pay.
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: (a) A statement show ing the number of wells bored in each district of the Province and Delhi Province which is included in the jurisdiction of the Department of Agri culture, Punjab during the agricultural year ending SOth June 1927 is laid on the table.
429. Mr. E. Maya Das : Will the Honourable Minister for Agricul ture be pleased to sta~-
( a) the number of wells bored by Government borers during the last financial year, by districts ;
(b) the average cost per well;
(c) if there were any failures ; if so, how many;
{d) whether in cases when failure was experienced the pipe was allowed to remain inside the well or was it taken out ;
(e) whether when it was allowed to remain inside the well, the owner of the well had to bear the cost of the pipe ?
WELLS.
I Mr. E. Maya Das.] (ii} the average quantity of milk produced per annum-
~(a) by cows in towns and its equivalent money value;
(b) by c,ows in villages and its equivalent money value ;
(c) by buffaloes in towns and its equivalent money value;
(d) by buffaloes in villages and its equivalent money value?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : I regret that the answer, to this question is not yet ready. A reference has been made to the Director of Agriculture whose reply has not yet been received.
[22ND Nova, 1927~ PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
(b) Yes.
430. Cbaudl~ri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable Minister for Edu· cation be pleased to state -
(a) whether it is a fact that Hoshiarpur Intermediate College is the first College where Hindu-Muslim fracas took place amongst the students;
(b) whether the Principal 0£ Hoshiarpur College had for the first time the charge of an educational institution ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Government is not in a position to say.
FRACAS BETWEEN HINDU AND MUSLIM STUDENTS OF INTER· MEDIATE COLLEGE, HosHIARPUR.
UNST.A.RRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS., 122.Si
Statement.
Serial District. Wells bored, No,
-- l Jullundur 28 2 Hoshiarpur 37 8 Amritsar 20 4 Gujranwala 44 5 . Gujrat 35 6 Sialkot 5 7 Rawalpindi 2 8 Shahpur 24 9 Lahore 49
10 Montgomery 46 11 Ferozepors 47 12 Ludhiana 22 13 Multan 38 14 Jhang 16 15 Lyallpur 2 16 Muzaffargarh 6 17 Gurgaon 67 18 Delhi 4 19 Ambala 30 20 . Kamal 46 21 Rohtak 9 22 Hissar 8 23 Gurdaspur 4 ~-----
Total 584
433. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : With reference to the answer to Council •question No. 6 put by me on 28th February 1927, will the Honourable the- ~inance Member be pleased to state- . ·
(a) whether any of the political prisoners mentioned in the list has · since been released ;
(b) whether any of the politiealprisoners mentioned in the list has since· been transferred to the jails of this province 'l · ..
+ ' • ' • •
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency: (a) Yes, two. (b) It is proposed to transfer 8 prisoners and one of them has already·
artived in the Punjab, . . 1 Page 843 ante. 3 Vol X-A., Page 32.
PuKJABI PRISONERS CONFINED. IN JAILS OF OTHE!t PROVINCES.
REPORT· OF ILLNESS OF CERTAI:-T PUNJABI PRISONERS •.
· 432. CbudbrlAfzal Haq: Will theHonourabletheFinanceMember be pleased to state whether the Government received report of illness of the .following Punjabi prisoners in 1927 who are serving their terms of im prisonment in other provinces :-
Jaggat Ram, son of Ditta. Mall. Master Mota Singh, son of Gopal Singh. Parma Nand, son of Giya. Parsad.
The HonourabJ~ Sir Geoffrey de Montmorency : Jaggat .Ram was reported in May 1927 to have suffered from Dysentery.
With regard to Mota Singh, the honourable membsr is referred to my answer to iquestion No. 350 (starred) part (a), in the last Council session .
. Barma Nand is reported never to have been seriously ill during his imprisonment.
HOLIDAYS IN THE INTERMEDIATE COLLEGE, HosIJIARPUR .
. -·-af ·- Chaud~i Alial Ha.q : Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased to state-
(a) whether it is a fact that the Principal of the Intermediate College; Hoshiarpur, did not allow holidays on the occasion of the gazet
.. ted Muslim festivals ;
(b) whether it is a fact that no time is allowed to Muslim students for· offering Jumma prayers in the College; if so, why so ?
The Honour.able Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) ~o.
(b) No. I r
[22Nn NoVR. 1927 ~ :l>UNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
II!':'"·-····~-,,·,,,
f
1 Vol. X-A, page 32.
Jakhal. Kalanwali, Kalaswala. Kangra. Khanna. Ladws. Pslampur. Sang la. Sillanwali. Sri Gobindpur.
Beri. Isa Khol. Kalabagh. Pakpattan. rincligheb. Simla.
(2) Small Towns Anandpur. Budledha.. Gardhiwala, Ja.ijon.
i\fusLIM RJ::PRESENTATION IN MUNICIPAL AND SMALL TOWN COM!'t(ITTEES. ,
436. Chaudhri Afz•I Haq : Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state -
(a) the names of those municipal committees and small town com mittees where no Muhammadan is elected as member ;
(b) the names of those municipal committees and small town commit tees where neither any Muhammadan is elected nor any Mu hammadan is nominated and also the reasons for this extra ordinary state of affairs ?
The HonouraMe Malik Firoz Khan,· Noon : (a) (1) Municipal Committees-
l'LIGHT OJ<' ZAMINDARS IN. Ii'LOODED A.REAS.
435. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state--
(a) whether the District :Magistrates of Hoshiarpur and Ludhiana submitted any special reports as to the plight of the samin dars of flooded areas in their respective districts during the last three years ;
(b) whether they made any suggestions for the relief of the zamindars of the flooded areas ; if so, what were those suggestions ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husein : The question has necessitated enquiries which are not yet complete. An answer· will be sent to the honourable member when it is ready.
I I I I I
PUNJABI PRISONERS CONFINED IN JAILS OF OTHER PROVINO'ES,
434. · Chaudhri Afzal Haq , With reference to the answer to Council 1question No. 6put by me on 28th February 1927, will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state whether Government proposes. to call for periodical reports regarding the health and weight of allthe political prisoners whom the Government has transferred to the prisons of other provinces?
· The Honourable Sir Geoffery deMontgomery: The Govern ments concerned have been asked to submit a report when any of these prisoners becomes seriously ill.
1227 UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND A.NSWERS.
GOVERNMENT'S DEMANDS FOR SUPPLEMENTARY AND ADDITIONAL GRANTS, 1927-28-co:,;cwoEn.
PROVINCIAL LOANS AND ADVA~CES GRANT.
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain (Revenue Member): Sir, I beg to move :
"That a supplementary sum not exceeding Rs. 6,00,000 be granted to the Governor in Council to defray the charges that will come in course of payment for the year ending the 31st of March 192 8 in respect of Provincial Loans and Advances (Reserved)."
The motion was carried.
Gii.AN'i' OF CROWN LANDS TO. ZAMINDARS OF VILLAGE ABHA.
437. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: (i) wm the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state-
(a) if it is a fact, that almost all tho lands of village Abha, tahsil Dasuha, District Hoshiarpur, have been washed away by floods ;
(b) if it is a fact that even the residential quart ers of the villagers were washed away by the river?
· (ii) If so, will the Government be pleased to state whether the Govern· ment has given grants of crown lands to any of the zamindars of this vil: Iage ?
'l'be Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: (i) (a) Yes. (b) Yes, (ii) A eertain area of land in the Nili Bar is being reserved for villages
which have suffered from river action. This land has not yet been distri-. bused to Deputy Commissioners, and no land in the Nili Bar has been allotted to Abhs, The Deputy Commissioner of Hoshiarpur will consider the claims
, of this village when the time comes to allot grants.
(AH elected seats being filled by Sikhs, the Commissioner appointed a Hindu to the only seat to be filled by appointment presumably because the Hindu population is nearly three times as large as the Muslim population.)
Budladha. (The Muslim population numbers only 80 out of a total of 2,276.)
Jakhal. (The Muslim population numbers only 36 out of a total of 755.)
Kalanwaii. (The Muslim population numbers only 29 out of a total of 562.)
f Hon, Malik, Firoz Khan, Noon.] {b} {l) Municipal Committee
Beri, (2) Small Towng-.
Anantfput.
[22Nn NoVF.. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISL:A.TIVE COUNCIL.
RESOL U1'IO~. R.m~OLUTION re DEl\fANDS 1roR G.aAKTS.
The Honourable Sir, Geoffrey deMontmorency (Finance Mem ber) ; Sir, I beg to move :
"This Council recommends to Government that the recommendation contained in paragraph 12 of the report of the Public Accounts Committee of this Council on the accounts fort-he year 1925-26, be accepted, and tha-t the following de mands be added to the number of demands now presented to the Council:-
(1) Foreat-Capita] Expenditure (met from Revenue 8-A and met from Capital- ~~ .
The quest-ion is : "That a supplementary· sum not exceeding Rs. 1,63,051 be granted to the Punjab
Oovernment, (Ministry of Agriculture) to meet the excess expenditure incurred during the year ending the 31st of March 1926, in respect of Refunds (Trans ferred}."
The- motion was carried.
Agricul- for REFUNDS (TRA:-l"SFERRED) GRANT.
The Honourable- Sardar Jogendra Singh (Minister ·turn) : Sir, I beg to move:
"That a supplementary sum not exceeding Rs. 1,63,05] be granted to the Punjab Gov· ernment (Ministry of Agriculture) to meet the excess expenditure incurred during the year ending the 31st of March 1926, in respect of Refunds (Transferred)."
Mr. President : 'l'ho question is: "That a supplementary sum not exceeding Rs. 1,63,051 be granted to the Punjab
Government (}linistry of Agriculture) to meet the excess expenditure incurred during the year ending the 31st of March 1926, in respect of Refunds (Trans ferred)."
Lala Bodh Raj : Sir, I rise to g, point of order. Is the Honourable Member in order iu moving this excess gr1mt ? Under Article 133 of the Punjab Constitutional Manual, it is the Honourabls the Finance Member who is competent to move. this grant.
Mr. President : Article 133 lays down, no doubt, that such demands shall be presented to the Council by the Honourable the Finence Member, but if the honours ble me::nber will re.:',rl the concluding portion of the Article, he will find th9-t a de.nvnd for the excess grant Shf\JJ be dealt with in the same wr.y by the Council •',S if it were r. demand for a grant. The general budget is olways presented by the Finance Member. but the demands for grant am moved by the Ministers concerned, In the ssme way, I think, ~ft(-!r the necessary presentation of the particulars of an excess demand is made there is no objection to the demand being moved by the Minister concerned.
I
GOVERNMENT'S DEMANDS FOR EXCESS GRANTS, 1925-26. REFUNDS (RESERVED) GRANT.
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency (Finance Mem ber ) : Sir, I beg to move :
" 'I'hat an additional sum not exceeding Rs. 64,186 be granted to the Governor in Council to meet the excess expenditure incurred- during the yea.r ending the 31st of March 1926, in respect of Refunds (Reserved)."
'I'he motion was carried.
1229
-------------- --- ---- -- - -- -
3. P, U.
[ Hon. Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency. ] . · (2) Irrigation-Capital Expenditure (met from Revenue-16, and met from Ca.pita!-
.. 56). (3) Industrie.l Development--Ca.pite.1 Outla.y (met from Revenue-35-A.; and met·
from Capital-66-C. ). · · . (4) Hydro-Electric Scheme-Capital Expenditure (met from Revenue-41-B, a.nd:
met from Capital-56-D). (6) Civil Works-Capital Expenditure (met. out of Extraordinary Receipts-41-A,.
and met from Capita.1-60). (6) Commutation of pensions-Capital -Expenditure (60-B) .
. Sir, honourable members will · observe that this resolution has its origin in a recommendation. by the Public Accounts Committee. 'I'he re- .; port of the latter ,vr,s laid on the t~.ble yesterday by the Secretary to the· Punjeb Legislative Council. But, I should like to explain a little more fully how this matter came to be discussed by the Public Accounts Committee and how it arose. In dealing with the Audit and Appropriation Accounts for 1925-26, the Auditor-General wrote as follows:-
" I notice that both Mpital and revenue expenditure has been provided for in the same· demand for grants and in this connection the question arises· whether it is not desirable to present separate demands for capital and revenue ex pcnditure. A budget estimate Ill! presented to a Legislative Council presents to the Council an est\mate of the net result of the revenue transactions of a year· and also an estimate of the closing balance of Government as a whole, having regard to revenue, capital and debt transactions. The inclusion within one grant of capital and revenue transactions of the same character enables the Local Government to re-appropriate between the revenue and capital account and such re-appropriations will necessarily affect the revenue balance to which the· Legislative Council may, and should, attach considerable .importance,
"On the other hand it is admitted that the question whether expenditure.of a capital nature should be met from loan funds or from current revenues is merely a problem of ways and means and it may be convenient for the Local Gov ernment not to decide until.the close of the year how much of such expendi ture is to be met from capita.I and how much from current revenues. Further a Local Government can always affect the revenue balance. by increasing or re-
. ducing non-voted expenditure. "It is for the Public Accounts Committee to advise the Legislative Council and Local
Government what view should be taken on this aspect of the question. I auggest that the real issue· can be raised if the Public Accounts Committee wilt consider whether it shall .!\dvise that capital and revenue transactions shall not be included within the s.ame grant." ·
These observations of the Auditor-Gener-al were h~id before the Public Accounts Committee. It was explained to thee Public Accounts Committee that we have at pre·
sent, as honourable members will see from a. glance by looking at that part of the budget volume which is entitled "Statement of Demands for Grants," 32 demands for grants. Among these the following demands for grants include both capital end revenue expenditure. Grant 4 includes 8-Forestsr 8-A-Forests, which is capital expenditure met from ordinary revenues, and 52-A-Forests, which is capital expenditure. Grant 6 includes XIII-Irri·· ga.tion-Working Expenses; 14-Interest on Irrigation Works; 15-· Other Irrigation Expenditure financed from ordinary revenues ; 16--Irriga.-· tion, Capital Expenditure financed from ordinary revenues ; 55-Construc-· tion of Irrigation Works, Capital Expenditure. Grant 18 includes 85- Industries, 56-C-Industrial Development, Capital Expanditure. Grant 21 includes 41-Civil 1Vorks, Tmnsferred; 56-D-Hvdro-Electric Schemer Capital Expenditure; 00-Civil Works, Capital Expenditure, Grant 23 includes 45-Superannuation Allowances and Pensions and 00-B-Pa.y ments of commuted values, of pensions, which is capital expenditure.
•
[ 2'2ND Nova, 1927 .. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL·. i280
..,...,----..,....,....,..... .. ..
" This Council recommends to Government that the recommendation contained in. paragraph 12 of the report of the Public Accounts Committee of this Council on the Accounts for the year 1925-26 be aceepted.and that the following demands be added to the number of demands now presented to the Council:-
(1) Forest-Capital Expenditure (met from Revenue 8-A and met from Capital-· 52--A).
(2) Irrigation-Capital Expenditure (met from Revenue-16, and met from Capital-· 55).
(3) Industrial Development-Capital Outlay (met from Revenue-35-A and met from Capital-56-C). ·
(4) Hydro-Electric Scheme-Capital Expenditure (met from. Revenue-41-B and' met from Ca.pital-56-D).
It was also explained to the Public Accounts Committee that the Gov-: emment agreed with the Auditor-General in principle that it was improper that rs-appropriations should be made from revenue to capital or ca pital to revenue, and that a change in system was clearly called for if it can be devised by which such re-appropriations should not be possible. Such re-appropria tions in the past had mainly taken place in the Irrigation head. 'I'he cure seemed to be tosaparate off all items of capital expenditure and this would necessitate ~n addition of six demands for grants in the manner shown in the resolution. The addition of these six demands for grants would achieve what propriety and principle demands. But, at the same time it was made clear that this change would have some results affecting the legis lature because even with the existing number of grants, the Legislative Coq_ncil sometimes finds that time is short in the budget discussion to discuss them ?,11. If demands for six grants nre added, this difficulty ne turallv increases. At the same time, it was felt that there is rarely Piny long discus sion on demands for grants connected with capitnl. Xo doubt a big capital scheme, when it first comes up, has to be examined and discussed in all its branches end implications, But such big schemes are not common. On looking into the past debates, it r,pper,rs that new expenditure from capital coming up yearly r,nd connected with schemes which have once been thorough· ly ventilated and discussed in the Council and the scope of which is well known to the Council do not usually occupy much time or even lead to dis cussion. It was therefore probable that the increase of six demands for grants under capital head would not intrude unduly or make any serious, encroachment on the time available for the Legislative Council for the dis· cussion of grants either individually or as e. whole. The members of the· Public Accounts Committee examined the pros and cons of the situation with very grer,t er.re. 'l'he Public Accounts Committee came to the conclu sion thet the point of principle which the Auditor-General has raised and on which the Punjab Government was in agreement with the Auditor-General, was of greater importencs than the avoidance of some rather remote risk of possible curtailment of the time for the discussion of some grnnts ; they pronounced themselves strongly in favour of the separation of the revenue and capital grants; and they recommended the addition of the six separate grants to which allusion has been made in the resolution. The Punjab Government desired before making any change, to obtain the views of the Punjab Legislative Council upon the proposed change, It is for this reason that I have moved this resolution advocating the adoption of the advice given by the Public Accounts Committee.
Mr. President : The resolution proposed runs :
l23t RESOL_UTION RE DEMANDS FOR GRANTS,
-----·-·-----
THE PUNJAB MUNICIPAL (EXECU'l.''IVE OFFICER) BILL. The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon (Minister for Local
Self-Government) : Sir, I beg to present the report of the Select Committee on the Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : Sir, I beg to move "That the Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill as reported by the Select Com,
mittee be taken into consideration."
Mr, President: The question is : "That the Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill 11.1 reported by the Seleot Com·
mittee be taken into consideration,"
Chaudhri Afzal Haq (Hosbierpur-cum-Ludhiane , Rural) (Urdu) : Sir, 1 beg to move :
"That the Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill be circulated for the purpooo of eliciting opinion thereon by 21st January 1928."
As my friend, Dr, Muhammad Alam, stated in his speech while opposing -ihis Bill, when it ·:,·M first introducod in the Simla session, the object, of in-
r:
THE PUNJAB TENA~CY (AMENDMENT) BILL. The .Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husai11 (Revenue Member):
·.Sir, I beg to present the report of the Select Committee on the Punjab Ten· .naney (Amendment) Bill. ,
The Honourable Mian Sir FazU-Husain: Sir, I beg to move : "That the Punjab Tenancy (Amendment) Bill as reported by the Select Committee be
taken into consideration."
It will be noticed, Sir, that the Select Committee has hardly made any .alteration. ·
Mr. President : 'I'he question is : "That the Punjab Tenancy (Amendment) Bill as reported by the Select Committee be
taken into consideration." The motion was carried. Mr. President : 'I'hs question is :
" That clauses 2, 3 and 4 stand part of the BiJL" The motion was carried. Mr. President : 'I'he question is :
"That these be the title and the Preamble to the Bill."
The motion was carried. The Honourable Mian Sir Fezl-d-Hesaln s Sir, I beg to move:
"Tha-t the Punjab Tena.ncy (Amendment) Bill be passed." i need only add tl;iat though this is t>, non-controversial measure and
-though it is a simple measure, yet it is an. extremely useful measure. The motion was carried.
I -1
{Mr. President.) ·- (5) Civil Works-Capital Expenditure (met out of Extraordinary Receipts-41-A
, _ _ and met from Capital-60). (6) Commutation of pensions-Ca.pital-E:xpenditure (60·B)."
The question is that that resolution be adopted. The motion was carried.
I · 1
i [22ND Nova, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COU~CIL. 1232
- ~ -------"'------
trodueing such a Bill and of the appointment cf an fjxecutive Officer is. to take away r.y one hand the small measure of local self-government granted to us by the other. I appreciate thP efforts of the Select Committee· in tinkering and improving it, end I congratulate them on the result of their labours, But keeping in view the importance and seriousness of the step proposed, I think it· imperative that public opinion must be invited before we shape it into a law, The Bill, even as it has emerged out of the Select Committee is defective and no Legislative Council which considers itself as representative of the people ci{n allow it to be introduced .. I submit that there is no demand for such a measure and certainlv no need has been established. Even in the statement attached to the Bill, the Government bas not informed us r, bout the objects and reasons for its introduction. It only says the,t the Bill is being introduced to obtain more efficient control.
. If this is the only thing they want, and there is nothing to show that they want anything else, they must not, in order to achieve this little object, lay the axe st the very root of Ioeal self-government in the province, If the Honorary President and the Secretary cannot exercise full control over municipal affairs, the best way out of it is to appoint an Assistant Sec
.retary and if you are really enamoured of the name, call him " Executive Officer ". But why shonld you give him statutory birth-and arm him with statutory powers? Why not allow the committees themselves to appoint an executive officer ? It is just like asking a family which is quite indepen dent in · their own home, to accept, end that even ago inst their will, the appointment of a servant who will take away from them all their· powers of self-control and self-determination.
Though the Government has not been frank in the Statement of Objects and Reasons and has not established very dearly the need for the measure, the Honourable Minister in replying to the speech of Dr. Alam admitted that for the present it is intended not only to improve the administration and control the staff, but to check corruption so rampant in municipalities. Now, Sir, this is a statement which every patriotic Indian must resent, and as long as it is not withdrawn, wo must not agree to this Bill. It makes us pause and think whether only the appointment of an executive officer can root out corruption and whether we are, personally, really incapable of that. Sir, I say that I am not an irreconcilably seditious man. I am certainly not one who feels it his duty to condemn Government even where no censure is warranted and nono is earned. But the statement of the Minister makes me ask whether there is any department under Govern ment where you do not find corruption in spite of the presence of efficient and experienced officers at. their heads. Take the police. 'I'he report of this department is about to come up before you. Is there not corruption in it ? Then, again, where are these executive officers to be recruited from? From among the officers in the various departments of Government. Is there no corruption among them ? When responsible officers, officers with education, officers with wide experience of administration have not been 'able to extirpate this evil wholly or partially, from the departments under their care, how can one poor officer, even though he be an executive officer, do that ? The Honourable Minister by making that statement has censured the departments under his charge, and though he has not defended them
THE PU~JAB MUNICI~L {EXECUTIVE OFFICER) BILL.
[Chaudhri Afzal Haq.] I feel I must do that. If there is corruption in the municipalities, it is 16 times more so in the departments under Govemment control: Without .caring for the big beam in their own eyes, they are searching for the mote in the eyes of others. If really you want to remove corruption, you should have said so in the Statement .of Objects and Reasons and then· we would rsally have supported you as a body; But I submit, and I shall prove from his own speeches, that he is aiming at something else, that he wants · : fficial control over local bodies. Ho has' said so in his reports. It is in - grnined in the official mentality. They are after it and this is the ,v2.y they meen to get it. But they are doing so only on the suggestion of two or three -officers. One of them is the Commissioner of our division who suggested that the r,dmi,-i.istrat.ion of local self-government through municipalities .eannot improve without offieie I control. . But you must weigh this statement. You must test it by our past experience. You know what the nature of the municipal administration was when it was under the control of the officials, under the influence of the District Magistrates, who are generally supposed to kill corruption and you also know how they have improved in efficiency since this protecting influence has been removed. Is it not a fact that the municipal administration has really improved by for since its coming under non-official chairmen ? It has created and fostered public spirit. and love of public ser vice in the minds of people. Can you name imy place where municipal working has suffered for ·fock of official control ? I crn a whole time worker for the Council, I mean, I spend my whole time in studying the conditions of the province, and I assure you that almost invariably official control over municipalities has resulted in deterioration in the working of the munici palities. I have a lot of material to throw light on this point and if I get an opportunity to-morrow when a relevant issue will be raised in a resolution, l will show how officials are guilty of unnecessary and uncalled for interfer enee in the municipal affairs. I am afraid, I am crossing the forbidden line and my 'Statement may be out of order ....
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: On a point of order, Sir, may I ask whether the h .nourable member is opposed to the consider ation of the bill altogether or whether he just wants it to be circulated? If he wants it. to be circulated, I have not yet heard anything in favour of its being circulated.
Chaudhri Afzal Haq (continued in Urdu) : With your permission, Sir, I was just analysing the psychology of this measure and I was trying to gauge the mentality which brought about the introduction of such a Bili. I was also giving rny reasons why it should be circulated for public opinion, so that we may know the opinion of the people on !l bill which is really a blow at the very root of local self-government. If any municipality has come to a crisis it is due to the undue interfer ence of the District ~fogistrate. These bodies have failed only when they had the misfortune of placing their affairs in the hands of" men nnxious to curry
· official favour. The greatest argument that I have in favour of my amend ment is this. · Anybody and everybody that I have heard, and I have heard a lot of them discussing the proposed measure, has objected to the proposed _pay of the officer, as put down :in the bill. 'I'he second objection is that
[22ND N ova, 1927 . PUNJAB _LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
-there is no precedent in which Executive Officers have been appointed for first class municipal committees. Reliance has been placed for the intro: -duction of the present measure on the existence of Executive Officers in the cities of Madrcs, Bombay and Calcutta. But eventhe Acts passed in the legislatures of those provinces, fail to supply an instance of the kind in which appointment of Executive Officer may have been urged for the first class municipalities. But the truth of the matter is that Government is anxious to thrust upon the munioipolities a measure with the help of which it can exercise full official control over their working. It does not like the indepen dence of the local bodies. Just have a look at thc-> nature of the appoint ment of the Calcutta Executive Officer. He is just as good or as bad a servant of the mur icipality as a Secretary. We do not object to the name. We object only to the functions entrusted to the post. Then, Sir, it has been proposed to appoint only first class officers, with Rs. 2,500 as pay. But have you ever considered whether such municipalities can afford to bear .so much burden ? . . .
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan. Noon: Up to Rs. 2,500.
Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Quite so. But the passing of the Act will give you the power to pay him anything up to Rs. 2,500 and I am sure you win not consult me when appointing him whether to pay him Rs. 2,500 or loss. 'I'han, Sir, it is generally believed that this is another opening for retired Indian Civil Service officers.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: Absolutely false.
Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Probably so, and I am glad to have that repudiation. But I am only giving you a bit of information and I am not €xpressing my belief. You are probably not going to appoint Indian Civil .Service officers but that is the general impression. Even names are being mentioned. I have hoard of them in Amritsar and at Lahore. But I do not want to say anything about them at present.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: On a point of order, ·sir. Is not the honourable member anticipating discussion on the amend ment which is coming later on to reduce the salary from Rs. 2,500 to Rs. 1,500? This will involve fl repetition of arguments.
Mr. President : In view of the possibility that that amendment may not be moved, I think the honourable member is not out of order.
Chaudhri Afzal Haq : 'l'he 1'1rst Minister, the Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain in the report of 1924-25 expressed his gratification at the conduct of municipal affairs and he found nothing wrong a bout them. But suddenly in 1925-26, on the report of two Commissioners, those of Jullundur and Ambala, it was felt that many evils, like corruption, had crept in in the working of municipalities and that official control would be deeiraele. I
. would admit for argument's sake the accuracy of these statements. Suppose there is corruption, communal tension, party feeling and an. But you must admit that barring a short period of the last six years or so, there had been official control all over the municipalities. How then can we be expected to have mastered the art of Local Self-Government in this short span and how can we be judged by this little accomplishment ? Government has not given
THE PUNJAB MU:-.ICIPAL (EXECUTI,VF. O}'FICER) BlLL. 1235
~ Chaudhri Afzal Haq.] us enough time j:o learn it. But this is only true if r,ll the chcrges of irre sponsibility, communal tension end corruption were r.dmittad. 'l'he people, however, say that there is now greater public spirit exhibited in the ad ministration of our municipal r.fir.irs end citizens have become more efficient to oontrol their r,ffairs.
Why, then, hes this new r,ppointment been crm\ted ? Is it that the work has increased ? Why not leave it to municipalities to appoint such officers of their own eecord. Where is the necessity for the statutory provision that in. case a municipality refuses to appoint r,n Executive Officer within three months of thepassing of this measure, the Local Government shall ap point the executive officer? Why does Government seek to impose upon the municipality an officer whom it does not want ? Is it not like appointing a servant for r\ family which does not want one ? Under the circumstances, I appeal to the House not to r,gree to brand the country as unfit for Local Self-Government. We know that the Statutory Commission is coming, though we shall have nothing to do with it, but Government no doubt will advance it r,s an argument, if this Bill is passed, against our fitness for Self-Government. I hope the House will, in order to save the province from a bad name, agree to my motion.
Mr. Owen Roberts [Nominated (Non-official)]: Sir, there is nobody more in favour of the principle of an executive officer than myself, but I have no doubt at all that this bill has been prepared without due regard to the needs of the subject and I would be prepared to opp~se the motion entirely rather than see the bill pass in its present form. 11:Iy objections may not be the same as those of my friend who has just taken his seat, but my prin cipal objection to it is that I do not think that the conditions brought about by the bill are such as would be fair to the executive officer. If one turns to the Statement of Objects and Reasons, one finds in the first line-
~' The administration of a large municipality involves the supervision of a large staff."·
Then again we are taken right into the confidence of Government by the Honourable Minister who told us in the last meeting of the Council:-
" I will just tell the honourable members why an executive officer is needed for the Muni cipa l-Committee, There are certain provisions of the Municipal Act which in· volve infliction ofpunishmente or which neceesitate the President to carry out duties which are unpleasant. The members who are elected by the voters and who depend on their voters for their own success cannot act independently. Similarly the President who is elected by the members every three years has certainly to have a regard for their feelings."
I quote this at the moment only to show that one of the paramount duties of the executive officer will be to control the staff. I shall have occasion to refer to it later from another point of view. Now, Sir, if we refer to clause 4 (1) of the bill, this question of staff is dealt with there. What that clause means is beyond me. I have tried to read it in every possible way; it says definitely that the executive officer shall not exercise the powers under section 39 of the Municipal Act. Now section 39 of the Municipal Act reads thus:-
~· Subject t.o the provisions of this Act and the rules and bye-laws made thereunder, a committee may employ such other officers and servants as may be necessary or proper for the efficient execution of its duties and may assign to such officers and servants such remuneration as it may think fit, and may re-move or dismiss any officer or servant so appointed."
[22ND Novn, 1927. PU~JAB LEGISLATIVE COUXCIL. 12B6
. THE PUNJAB MUNICIPAL (mcHrCUfIVJ,J _ OF ;'[CJ!lR) BILL. l2_.J7
Whatever the duties of this officer m1y be, he has neither to a.ppoin:t .nor to dismiss nor to exercise any control over his .staff. That, Sir, is~ ~~1.)<?iis -defect. I have taken out the figures of the staff in the Labore Mumo1~1i,y -_ and I find that there are now about 173 employees in his own personal staif, .. and even if i_t is assumed-and I certainly cannot say that I read it that way that he has power to appoint or dismiss all se~v~nts drawing less than Rs: so a m rnth, still this will leave him 106 memoers of his own personal start out side the sphere of hi, own control, and 'when one. l ioks through-the depart· mental staff3~staffs which he might be well expected to control-the situa-
·tion is almost comic. In the Public Health Department, for instanca, there - are eight parsons all of whom get more p·1y than R'l. 50. Besides, the great weakness of the section is that it would b9 quite simple for a committee to land the executive officer high and dry by passing a resolution that no
- employees except menials should he engaged on a salary of less than RS: 50 per menasm and leave the Executive Officer to control the menial establish ment only. Government msy have power to prevent this being done, but such a resolution would mt be unreasonable in itself and I doubt if Gov ernm mt would be justified in interfering merely to save 'the executive
. officer. Now, another very material alteration that the Select Committee lia.s
. made in the bill jg to be found in olsuse 6 (2). In th9 old clause 6 (2) there was a definite am Junt laid down for which the executive officer could give
· contracts or 11p to which he could incur expenditure, but the present clause G (:l) alters this. 'l'he sum is t:> bs fixed by the committee and if the sum fixed by the committee is nominal, I submit that ths position of the executive officer must become ridiculous.
Mr. President : Order, Order. May I ask the honourable member whether he is opposing or supporting the amendment ?
Mr. Owen Roberts : I am supporting the atnendmsnt, Mr. Preaident : It appears th~t the honourable msmbsr is discuss-
,fog an amsndmsnt which is not before the House. The honourable member is supporting an amendment _to recommit the bill _to_ the Beleet Committee. The reasons he is advancing are not reasons for circulation of the Bill. . _ . _ . . .
Mr. Owen Ro'berls.: I understand, Sir, by the amendment that the · consideration of the bill be postponed, · ·
Mr. President : The amendment. is that the bill be .eircnlatad for eliciting public opinion thereon. If the honourable member desires to move an amendment to the effect that the bill be recommitted to the Sewct
· Committee on account of certain defects, which the honourable member wishes to be removed, he is welcome to give me his amendment in writing.
Mr. Owan Roherh : Sir, the amendment is to the effect tha.t we should delay tile bill and aot allow it ta be 4ealt with in this Council, and I am giving my reasons to the best of my ability to that end.·
One principle of this bill that I wish to speak about hi this. In para graph (2) of clause 1 the bill fa extended to the munieipslities of Lahore and Amritsar. I said a. ·m'.>mant ago that I would again refer to th9 speech msde by the Honourable Minister, and I desire to do S'.) now. I partiou farly. want to draw attention to one sentence. It is this : '' The members who are elected by the voters and who depend on their voters for thei J! ------- ,·, - ---· -
I
[Mr. Owen Roberts.] own success cannot act independently." Sir. I ask the honourable msm bers of this Council what picture does this bring before them ; sureiy it is that of a body of weak-kneed persons led by a knock-kneed President who
··refuse to do their work because they are afraid of losing their position. I submit that this is not a fair picture. I submit that this does not do justice to the members of first class municipalities, and I think we might well go to the public before we erect a monument through this bill to perpetuate the picture that the Honourable Minister has drawn of the character of the municipalities.
The next important point to which I wish to reier is that we are in this case handing executive power to a Ministry, I take it that the Local Govern· ment means Ministry. I think before we do that, Sir, the public ought to be allowed to say what they think of it. There seems to me to be no differ ence between handing executive power to one body or to another; indeed we may well reflect whether we sha11 not be merely exchanging King Log for King Stork and I am not certain that it would not be far more generally approved if instead of making the Local Government the authority to apply the bill to any particular municipality, we substitute the Standing Committee for Local Self-Government, it is a point well worth thinking about. I bring out these matters, Sir, because there is no doubt that in the minds of a large number of municipal commissioners there is very grave suspicion on the - subject of an executive officer. Municipalities and persons interested in them are turning over in their minds the important question as to whether these executive officers are going to be useful and employable sorvants, or whether they are simply going to be new masters. Sir, we serve many masters and we should consider well before we add another to the list. Once committees are convinced that these officers are only their masters, a deadly apathy will set in; there will be empty meetings and municipal administra tion instead of being a subject of keen public interest will steadily decline and not develop.
You may ask what grounds there an for thinking that there is more in the appointment of these officers than meets the eye. Well, Sir, I do not pretend to be a lawyer but what is the meaning of Section 8 of the bill? It says that the executive cffieer shall prepare Annual Estimates and so on and concludes that " if it is in his opinion necessary or expedient to vary taxation .... , . , ..... shall submit proposals in regard thereto." What does this statutory power mean? The committees already have their Finance Sub-Committees in whom these powers now rest. What will happen if these sub-committees and the general committee disagree with the execu tive officer's proposals? And when finally the matter has to be carried to Government for sanction, from what point of view will the submission be made ? Will the executive officer have to frame the letter from the point of view of the committee or will he express his own views, or will he have the right of adding a minute of dissent to views which he may be obliged to express on behalf of the r cmmittce ? If he has the right to add a minute of dissent, then, Sir, I hold tha] he is no servant of the committee. It is
- mattern like this, small matters if you like, that make the bill an object of suspicion. lt seems to me that the bill has been hurried through the Select Committee without due regard to these and other points and for these reasons. Sir, I support the amendment as a delaying motion.
(22ND Nova, 1927. PUNJAB - LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. ~288
Take again the salary of the executive officer. Re iB to be given Rs. 2,500 plus something. How many people earn Rs, 2,500 in this province ? Many of the leading lawyers do not get as much. Even businessmen do not earn so much. Even the Premier of Japan does not get Rs. 2,000. The Premier of New South Wales does not get Rs. 2,000, On the other hand it is proposed to give the executive officer of the Amritsar municipali ty Rs. 2,500 plus some allowances. Probably because the Minister gets
G2
Shaikh Muhamtnad Sadiq [Amritsar City (Muhammadan), Urban], Sir, the more one looks at the BiU the more he feels that it is defective. Gov- · ernment wants to have more effective control over the municipalities, The Honourable Minister has not attempted to improve the machinery of Local Self-Covernment so as to bring it more under popular control, tut has done what all bureaucratic governments will do, that is, has started to take away every bit of authority which was accorded under the popular Municipal Act in the time of Lord Ripon. Sir, Government wants to go back thirty years. Lord Ripon thirty years back passed a bill which was a great improve ment on the then existing law and here we find the Minister represent. ing this House coming forward to curtail the authority Qf the munieipali ties through this Council. He is trying to strike a blow on Local Self-Gov ernment. He has been hardly six months in bis office, and I say, Sir, he bas not had enough experience of the working of the municipalities to push through a bill of this kind. Re knows nothing about their working. If he had been a Minister for two or three years he would have fully examined the provisions of this Lill and would have come to right conclusions and, after fully examining the working of the municipalities, would have tried to improve the existing law after finding that it was unworkable. Instead of that we find that the official benches have prepared a bill for him which is a retrograde measure and we see the Honourable Minister pushing it through this Council. Surely he has not examined the provisions of this bill and he has never examined the system of Local Self-Government in all his life. (Laughter.) Read this bill, Sir, clause by clause. You will see how defec tive and how unworkable it is. Start from one end to the other, you will find that no effort bas been made to improve the position of munioipalitiea, Look at clause 10, which still retains the provision that the Deputy Commis sioner and the Commissioner have a right to cancel any resolution passed by a municipal committee. Instead of trying to get the power transferred from the reserved side to the transferred side, he is trying to transfer the powell to the reserved side. The Honourable Minister is trying to take away the power of the people but he has not the courage to attempt to take away the power from the officials. Why ? He knows that already the Deputy Commissioner has got varied duties of administration, such as registration, police, army and so on and that he has not got time to give even two minutes for municipal affairs. Yet, has the Minister really made an~attempt to. dispense with the Deputy Commissioner in the administration of municipal affairs? If he had done that I would have believed that he was really in. earnest in improving the system of Local Self-Government. He is not doing anything to improve the bill. He is only doing what the officialc; have asked him to do.
THE PUNJAB MlJNIClPAL (EXECUTIVE OFFICER) BILL. 1239·
[Shaik,h Muhammad Sadjq.J Rs. 5,000 he thinks .that Rs. 2,500 is nothing. He seems to think " rt does not matter .. After all Rs. 2,500 is only halt 0£ my pay." The Deputy C0ruciissione1· may get only Rs. 1,000, still his junior will get Rs, 2,500. ·
Then, Sir, the executive officer is to present the budget. Has it ever entered the head of my friend as to what is a budget? What will happen if. the municipal committee refuses to pass the budget prepared by the executive officer. How will the work be carried on if the budget is rejectet1 ? I don't think an attempt has been made by the Honourable Minister or his department really to solve this question. Thus if you go on examining the bill in detail you will find tha,t the measure is a. retrograde measure, The real point is that the Government does not want the Indians to enjoy self government. That is all. It has been said that the municipal adminis tration is bad and requires an executive officer to improve it. But wha.t has the Government itself done to improve its own system of govern ment 'i I know several cases where the Assistant Surgeons havs taken bribes and none of tnem has been punished by Government. I can stats many other cases in other departments also where corruption is prevailing and no executive ..9ffic.er.is _appointec:l. Perhaps Government has had several complaints about thsm and yet. not a sinzle o'ncer has been dismissed. The public knows full well t h:tt the G:,vernment department> fl.(" :·1111 · VN'.Y
-badly. The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: Sir, I challenge . th~e
'iltatement that the honourable member has made that doctors take bribes and cases have been reported to Government and that nothing has been done by it. Will he please give one case brought to the notice of Govern ment where action has not been taken ?
Shaikh.Muhammad Sadiq: I cannot give names now, but I can sa.y that the Inspector-General ot Civil Hospitals has received several complaints, Take the police department ? What is happening there ? Are you appoint ing executive officers ·for that ? I am asking the Honourable Revenue Jlember, '1 Wha.l about eaildara "? . The Honourable Mian Sir FazJ,.j .. ffusain : Sir, I would reqtiest tAA Chai+ to kindly try. to keep the honourable member to the bill under consideration and not run on to other subjects.
. Mr. President : I would request the honourable member to speak io the motion, · ·
S~ikh Muhammad Sa'diq: Sir, because this bill is being _supp.ort,~ by the othermembers of Government I have to refer to the administration of their departments, in order to prove that while supporting a. mea.su~e affecting the Local Self-Government they should look to their own affairs and .Be<thow they a.re managed before trying to throw the blame oil others.
Why has the Honourable Minister brought. forward this bill ? Not because he wanted it , . but because some Commissioner or Deputy Commis sioner wanted it. The cat has been let out of the bag. I shall read extracts li'om the Report on Municipalities for l 925, 26 to prove my statement'-
. !' The Oommtsslone» of the Jullundur Division considers tha.t the number hae been re- duced to a. dangerous miulmum and tha.t officia.l control froin outside is no 1111b
. stitute for the control tha.t form.erly could be exeroised by officia.l members of com;a1i.ttee."
[2Z.~D Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL,
~----- . . -·····-·· .. ·--- -·-·· .....
So he complains that he has no effective direct control over mtiniclp~li~ ties: Something has slipped out of his hand and he' wants to regain it and, as he cannot do this direotly he wants this executive officers BiH passed.
"The Commissioner of the Ambala "Division also expresses the opinion that it was a. mtstske to give all ,,municipalities non-official presidents with one- stroke ·6f:t11e-- pen , .
he wanted two strokes perhaps. (Laughter.) "and where 'such presidents have proved to be failures official presidents should be·
restored, a step which he considers would not be resented but would be cordially welcomed by the general public."
Bo, you can say, Sir, why this bill is attempted to be passed in 'thia. Council. It is not because the Honourable Minister or the other Ministers wanted it, not because there was a feeling that there was some lack of control, but because this bill was something akin to what was wanted by the reserved side to get their hold stronger on municipalities. Is it not. a strange thing that my honourable friends who want 'further
instalments of reforms for India should now consent 4, l',M. to pa,SS a measure which aim~ at curtailing the 'free-
dom of municipal eomrnittees? The fact is that the Mioolti'y is showing its incapacity to govern this province. Unfortunately the Honourable Ministex
· does not seem to have gone deeply into this matter. He does not seem to · have given full attention to it. The Honourable Minister is the 1:eyre sentative of the people of the province and instead of getting the powers that now vest in the reserved side transferred to the trans-
. fened side of Government, he is seeking to strengthen the hands. of the reserved half of the Government. With . one stroke 0£ the pen he wants to hand · over all powers to the 'Deputy Commis sioner to cancel any resolution passed by a municipal committee. or .to
· suspend or dismiss any municipal employee. What is the attitude that he· should take, if he finds that a Deputy Oomtnissioner does .not carry out. the orders of the Minist.ry ?.
Mr~ Pfcaj,e11t : May I ask the honourable member how bis speech is relevant to the Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill ? .
Shaikh·Muhammad Sadiq: Clause 10 ofthis bill says:- " The Local Government, the Commissioner,, and the Deputy Commissioner shall have
in respect of the executive officer all the powers of control, inspection, ·requisi tion, suspension, etc., etc."
!'want to show that· ii the Honourable Minister really represents the . people of the province and if he wants to strengthen the transferred half of
and the opinion of a Commissioner weighs more with Government than iiha.t of anybody else. The Commissioner says that the number bas been reduced to a dangerous minimum because more non-0:ffieta¥1 1µe i,il~~tE!_d as ruembers- ·
" Similarly the Deputy Commissioner of Shahpur complains that though formerly when a trained official was at the head of each municipality his entrgy. ~µd. efficieney made up for deficiences in other directions •.•• "
What other directions, we do not know- " Direct and personal control by officials ~as been replaced by periodical supecvi-
sion ... .- .... ~ .. '' .
THE t>UNJAB MUN!OIPA.L-. (EXE<l.OTIV.& QFb.'IOER) BILL. 1~1
[S~~kh Muhammad Sadiq.]
the Government, effective powers should be vested in the members of the municipal committee, who represent the people. What is the difference tha.t we find between the reserved and the transferred side of the Government ? If the Honourable Minister in charge of the transferred side should hand over his powers to the reserved side officers on whom he has absolutely no control, then all this talk of further reforms is a mere sham. The Honourable Minister has no power or authority over a Deputy Commissioner ; he cannot tra.nsf er a. Deputy Commissioner from one district to another. If a. certain Deputy Commissioner is not helping the transferred half of Government in the expeditious discharge of work, and if the Honourable Minister wants to get that Deputy Commissioner transferred to another district, he cannot do it himself. He has to go to the Revenue Member or the Finance Member who
· would say: 'Look here, if you don't want this Deputy Commissioner to be, retained in this district; we want him to remain iu the same district. Our necessity must have prior claim.' Then the Honourable Minister will have to keep quiet. The drafting of this particular clause shows the mentality of the Honourable Minister. It really passes one's comprehension to read the clause which purports to take away the powers given to municipal com mittees; His explanation is that the municipal committees are corrupt. I can assure him tha.t there is not more corruption than other departments. I can assure him from my experience of the Amritsar municipality during the three years that I have been there, that there was no more corruption .than while the Deputy Commissioner was in control of the same. Of course nobody dare tell him that he was doing the wrong thing. The Deputy Commissioner is the distributor of land, he is the distributor of titles, he is the' distributor of sanads, he is the man who administers justice in the dis trict. The whole district is under him. Naturally even though eorrup tion is rampant nobody would have the courage to go and tell him that he
· was doing the wrong thing or that under his administration corruption was prevalent. Even the Czar of Russia could not have the courage to go and complain against a. Deputy Commissioner .. No doubt there is a prooodure to be followed in e-very matter, but the Deputy Commissioner is so powerful that he can set aside all rules of procedure with one stroke of the pen. High officers tremble in the presence of the Deputy Commissioner. Even higher officers like the Sessions Judge, the Superintendent of Police tremble before the Deputy Commissioner. If any of the municipal commissioners take ooilta.ge to tell the Deputy Commissioner that there is corruption in the muni
..oipality, he would summarily dismiss him by saying 'Jau ', There is no vakil, no dfJlil and no appeal. The result was that nobody had the courage
·to tell anything to the Deputy Oommissioner. Now, the Deputy Commis sioners have not got much power. Formerly they were enjoying much -power. Natura.Uy, because they have been bereft of power, there is bickering. In France, there has not been any continuity of Premiers for the last two yeara. The Premiers have been changing every now and then .. If my honourable frie~d ~ad been the Emperor 0£ Germany, probably, seeing the state of affairs m France, he would have said, ' Let us go and take possesaion of France and appoint a Premier'. What the Honourable Minister now seeks
-to do sounds very much like that. He wants that all the powers which have been conferred on municipalities should be taken away by his Act. He strikes
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. [22ND N OVR, 1927. "1242
~ -_.--·, ·- •· .• -- :ii" ... ,. ._ .... ~ .....
_at the very root of muniepal administration. I cannot see the fun of in· troducing a. olsnse like this. If themnnieipal committee wants to dismiss a. servant; it has no power to do that. Even if an employee of the municipal committee is insolent and inefficient, there is no power in the municipal · -committee to remove him from office. That bas to be done by the executivs -officer,: The section says, above Rs. 50 they can dismiss a man, hut under Rs. 50 they cannot dismiss a man. If my honourable friend has any experi ence of any municipality, be should have known that only 10 per cent. of the staff draw more than Rs. 50, all the others draw less than Rs. 50. When I asked him a plain question, he evaded giving a plain answer. He thought he was giving a clever answer. What is the position? Here is a man who fa drawing Rs. 40, a man who is very inefficient. He does not do his work properly. Five or seven municipal commissioners report to the executive officer against that man. They bring a resolution to that effect in the muni
.eipal committee and have it passed. The president of the municipal com- mittee wants to dismiss him. 'All the municipal commissioners want to dismiss him. But the executive officer says he is not going to dismiss that man. How can the efficiency of the municipal committee be maintained? The faot is that the municipal committee cannot dismiss even a single man for ineffi ciency, because the executive officer is obstructive. What is left for the municipal commissioners to do? They must bring a motion of censure against the executive officer in· order to_ dismiss even a sweeper or a ohsprasi, The executive officer by his obstructive tactics will be forcing the municipal commissioners to bring a motion for censure against himself. So in order to dismiss a sweeper we will have to pass a vote of censure against the exeeu-
-tive officer. Is that the protection offered to a high class officer? · The desire of the Government in bringing forward this measure seems to be to
.deprive the municipal committee of powers of control over its subordinate employees. If the municipal committee wants to get a darogha dismissed for insubordination or inefficiency, they will have to seek the sanction of the executive officer. 01.1,n anything be more humiliating to the muniei- pality? The municipal committee and the executive officer will be at
"loggerheads. It will be an insult to the whole municipal committee; Even if two-thirds or 60 per cent. of them want to dismiss a servant, they
. cannot do it without the concurrence of the executive officer. It is this provision that makes the Act really unworkable. If two-thirds of the members of a municipal committee want that a particular man should be reprimanded or punished in order to make that desire effectively carried out they will have to bring in a motion of censure against the executive officer, they will have to make all sorts of speeches attacking him. If that. is the underlying desire of the Honourable Minister, I cannot congratulate. him for incorporating this clause in this bill. .
What is the use of giving enormous powers to the executive officer ? The granting of license to tongawalas is vested in the executive officer. In Lahore, there are nearly 5,000 tongas. Do you · expect the executive officer, to inspect each one of these tongas before granting Iieense ? It will take months fol' him to personally inspect these tongas .. That work will necessarily have to be entrusted to a daro'.Jh11 getting something like Rs. 50. It means corruption. If the Honourable Minister had really studied
1243· THE PUNJAB MU~tolPAL (EXECUTIVE OFPIClllR) .BILL.
[Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq. ] . t~ ~nieipal Acts. in Etigfa.nd, ·France arid other westem CO\Wifi~s and also. ~he •unioipal Acts of ·oilier 'prO:Tinces in India, he sh;uld have· found out t_bat i_t is physically impossible for an executive officer to attepd to ~ll his ~~ties, ithe ha! .to ·give';i?~~naf atten~ion to ~h~m. so thes,~ powers are ~t · giv.en. !hat 1~ the meaning ~f !e~t.in~ so, ihtich ·po~er 'in th~t offic~r? · la- it- thetdea. oft-he 'Honourable Minfater that the whole. fa.bric will crumble· ril~~ he . is vested with . such eX:tra:or.;,litiary powers ? ·yy 1fo:tiourl:.b1e · friend will get the odium for enacting such a measure. Why should this Council get the· odium by passing such I.\ measure ? In the whole of the· Punjab, 'there are only two municipalities, Amritsar and Lahore, where this Act is ·· being applied. The Lahore municipality is not a small· ~ir. • It- ie not a municipality like Ajnala. These two cities are big· plt.cee. ·· If 'my honourable friend is going to push this measure through the-Council, he will make the Act unworkable. That is absolutely the wrong· thing to do. He should have seen to the oonvenience · of other members. There is no use ·of rushing this measure through. r.I'b~ is- no use-of throwing this burden on the Amritsar and Lahore muni cipalities, Ii the Government is really honest in their endeavour to reform. t:tfo· 'first class municipalities, why should they not apply the same principle· to-some -district boards, which are directly under the Deputy Cornmis sioners ?
lh~ Hono\l,rable Malil(Firoz Khan, Noon: Wait and see. Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq : Perhaps my honourable friend has learnt·
that '.ph1·ase from Mr. Asquith. Prol ably my honourable friend wants to· imitate the juggler, who when e.ll his tricks are exhausted, promises another ti.wk,and sends round bis hat for collection of money. So his promise of wait and see may only be au empty promise. If you are really honest about refonning the local bodies, you must he.ve begun with district boards .. ibe Deputy Commissioner who is in cherge of district boards is really over-: worked. Why should he be burdened with the district board administration. ~-&44lition to hie normal executive and judicial duties ? Is it bemmse that th~ Ministry is afraid of Dept ty Commissioners that the district boards are n.ot· being touched ? I am afraid no Mfoistry can stay for P, minute, if it AAl'~ :-to attack the District Magistrate, My honourcble friend thinks that because the municipalities of Lahore and Amritsar consist of only poor buai ~~men, he can do whatever he likes with them. He hes evidently followed. •·line of. least resistance. I remember that P, District Magistrate when aeting .IUI .' president simply used to say No. 4, manjur, Ko. 6 namanjur" No.10 ma.11j11.r, No. 12 namanjur, and so on without allowing mem hers' to speak. That is the way in which the work wes carried on. That is not the way of achieving local self-government. If that is tbo-· ifizjt· of local self,government then I must · admit frankly· the.t muni cipal-·adnii,nistration is a thorough . failU:re. If he had studied the . pro-. b~~ carefully,' he would have seen that the whole bill requires. radical aHera.tion: It requires r, good deal of pruning. There are so many defects in· the bill that it makes the position· of an executive officer absolutely impossible. · You are trying to thrust more responsibility .on the executive · officei' than he can really bear. As my honourable' friend Mr. Roberts has said, the· municipal committee may become apathetic. The executive-
·-· [2iNO N OVR. 1921 •. 1~44'
.. The Honourable Malil,Firoz KhaD', Noon: There was no executive-
officer then. . -
. :Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq: No; but if he had been. there perheps v..:e should have added another zero to that figure. Now look 1 t the Th ck B~y scheme. They appointed executive officers on salaries of Rs. 3,000 to Rs. 5,00(} and what is the result? Again what about the Canteen Board where the
officer having too much power will simply hand. over all his, functions io his hood clerk or somebody · drawing something like Rs.· 50 or so and. that means corruption.
'I'he hill seeks to take :nyay sn the powers vested in the .munieipal committee, If they want to remove any subordinate mania], a.11-tbafth~ have to do is to increase the salary of tµe individual whom they want to· dismiss so that they can themselves do so. The bill merely aims a~ the adop tion of surreptitious plans by the municipal committee to get their wishes satisfied. If the executive officer will not listen to their words, t-hey·will achieve their object by a. subterfuge. In the olden days, if a raja wished to punish a. man with a. fine of Rs. 50, he used to give him an inam ;of Rs. 60 and then mete out punishment. -The same will be the case with municipalities if this bill is passed. Is it seriously contended that it is work-
_, able? It is very dangerous for the Government to push this bill ·through · with their majority. It is a bill of the most retrograde character aiming at· the powers of the elected representatives of the people in municipalcom mittees i,nd as such the bill should not be rushed through the House. If to-day we pass this bill, more bills of a retrograde character will be put forward to-morrow. 'I'he Honourable Minister naturally thinks that he can have the support of certain members of certain parties in this House who have rer,llv no concern whatever· with this matter end who know nothing about the· difficulties of the town people. 'fo-day he relies on the support of these members and to-morrow our votes ·will be utilised against those very worthy gentlemen. When _they come forward to-morrow and appeal to us, our answer probably will be the same as they give us. to-day. Thus a division is attempted between the members of the Council. If to-day the. turn of the municipal committees has come, to-morrow the turn of other bodies, probably the district boards with non-official presidents will come: Of course those district boards where the Deputy Commissioner is the presi dent will not be touched. The Honourable Minister might say 'wait and see '; but in view of the opinion given by big Commissioners and important, Deputy Commissioners, I say no Ministry of this Council will dare. touch their powers, So I appes I to the members of this House not to be led ~way by the false promises of the Minister but to see for themselves how d-efocti,v~· is the whole bill. Go through the bill section by section and see how impossible the work of the municipal committees will become by the handing over of their powers to the executive officers. In Amritser we had au Elec-. trical Department costing 15 lakhs, and by a stroke of the pen the whole management of that department was handed OY81' to the executive officers. Even the Honours ble Minister does not· seem to know the t Amritsar city possessed its own electric. scheme. We were forced to lose Bs. 60,000 in coal because P, certain high officer did not exercise proper control. ; . · · ·
';l'HE- PUNJAB MUNICIP'AL €EXEOUTI'Vlil OFFICER) BILL,
[Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq.] offieers were being paid Rs. 5,000 and more? There are any number of examples to show such failures even in the departments of which you are the head. My honourable friend says that the members of the municipal com· mittee are elected ; but I ask, are you not an elected member ? To-morrow ihe executive authority might say the Honourable Minister is an elected member so let us take away his powers.
Mr. President : The honoura ble member will please address the Chair- - Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq: What I say, Sir, is that if the Honourable
Minister says this to-day, he has to look to his own powers. To-morrow others may say that elected members are unfit to do any work. When the reforms come to-morrow other executive officers might say, "look at this gentleman ; he has been himself saying- that elected members are unfit ; so he cannot 'have any power". The Commission is coming not only to give us powers but probably to take back something from us. So if we say this to-day, to-morrow -the same principle will be applied to us. Don't think that because the Minis ters are there we will be silent when the time comes. If you push forward this bill now, we will have to say to the Commission-we may not go to the Commission but we can say through somebody who are ready to go there _, take baok the powers now given'. What I say, to Minister, Sir, is this: if you feel you are our representative, you should look to the opinions of the members of the municipal committees but not to the opinions of members who do not know anything about the committees. Has the Honourable Minister any experience of the municipal committee? Has he ever worked .a.s a member of any municipal committee? (Hear, hear.) No, he has never been ; but he is trying to sit in judgment over them. He does not know any· thing about the working of the municipality. It is a great honour to serve .as a member of the municipality. The Honourable Minister is trying to ride roughshod over the municipal committees. Therefore, with the greatest respect to this House, I appeal to those members who · are members of muncipalities and also to others-there may be some who may not speak and I appeal to them also .
Mr. President: 'I'he honourable member will not direct his speech to any part of the House.
Shaikh Muhammad Sadiq: Through you, Sir, I want to give a mes sage to them. Let them come forward and help us and let them not stand on false dignity. I want to tell them that we who have been working in the munieipslities consider that this hill if given effect to will bring the whole municipal administration into collapse.
Dr. Gopi Chand, Bhargava [Lahore City (Non Muhammadan), Urban] (Urdu): Sir, I do not want to make a lengthy speech on the subject under discussion. I cannot, however; refrain from saying that no cogent reasons have been given for the hurry in which the Bill is being rushed through. It has been asserted that corruption is rampant in the municipal committees of the province and that the appointment of an executive officer will go a lorig way towards putting a stop to it and therefore the sooner this bill is passed into law and brought into force the better it would be for the municipal administration of the province, I should, however like to point out, Sir. that the municipal committees have been working under the new Act ..-...-~......... -
[22ND NoVR. 1921. /
PUNJ.A.B LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. '1246
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Mr. E. Maya Das (Nominated, non-officialj : Sir, at times a. qnes tion like this becomes more easy to understand by means of an analogy
.and the analogy that I will put forward now will be that of the captain . of a cricket team. In case the Amritsar municipal committee has a. high school snd the high school has a good cricket team, snd that
· cricket teani has to go and play a match, will the members of the mnni eipal committee appoint two or three captains or will they think it better
.zo decide which of the persons composing the team is to be bowler, which
·for the last 8 or 9 years, and that it will not make any appreciable difference -if they are left alone for another three months or so, and the bill is circulated -for eliciting public opinion thereon. A good deal of time is spent in settling matters of greater public importance and Government takes no step to expe <lite them. '.Dheu why do you hurry this up? For instance, take the case of the Lahore municipal committee. It took three months to bring it into working
-order, General elections were held in July; names of the elected members were gazetted in August, about three or four weeks after and the general com· mittee and sub-committees were only able to function towards the end of
-Oetober or early in November. When so muoh time was taken for bring· ing into working order the municipal committee of Lahore, I fail to un-,
· derstand why this bill, which so v.it:1.lly affe:its the interests of the people , should be rushed through in this session of the Council.
Amt her reason given for rushing through this hill is that it is desirable · to introduce official control in municipal committees with the least possible: delay. Bat this is contrary to facts, and in order to prove this, I will give a
· concrete example, In the municipal committee of Lahore, out of the 44 · members 11 are nominated, i.e., }th of the power is in the hands of the Government and through them the Government can and
-raally doss exercise vast influence and c mtrol over the municipal affairs. I have given notice of a question which is coming up on the 24th, and from that you will learn the amount of control exercised by the Deputy Commis·
. sioner.or the Commissioner through the nominated members.
'I'he honourable gentlemen who have just preceded me said that the bill -under consideration WM,1 a very important one and I am at one with them. It contemplates sweeping changes in the municipal administration of the
-province and seeks to impose very galling restrictions on the rights and -privileges of the people. By this bill a servant is forced upon a oo~· -mittee in whose appointment it has not much voice. A municipal committee which is so handicapped cannot be expected to diacharge
'its duties efficiently, or to control the activities of an officer whose . a~pointment., suspension or removal is not within its power.
This measure is an encroachment upon the rights of the people, and · it is in the fitness of things that they may be given time to raise their voice :in favour of or against this measure, and convey their opinion to the House .and to Government. The Minister inoharge has just advised another member · with reference to an enquiry made by him that he should wait and see. I would respectfully ad vise the Honourable Minister to act· on this suggestion
.and to circulate this bill for eliciting public opinion thereon. Ile should .. wait and see its result .
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1247' THlll PUNJAB MUNIOIPAT, (EXEOUTJVE OFFICER) BILL,
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Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam [West Punjab 'I'owns (Muhammadan), Urban] (Urdu) : Sir, I fail to understand or appreciate the point of view of the 'Government Member to whose clever brain the bill under consider ation owes its inception. This bill was presented in hot baste- amidst the cool breeze of Simla at the last session of the Council and now we are asked to give our consent to it in the same hurry in which it was presented. Sir tc •
()1.r. E. Maya Das.] . o-™1is to -be the wicket-keeper and ,so forth or will they ask the captain, to do that ? In the same way, I think that one officer under certain conditions is able to manage and control better _than if the control is placed in the hands of a large number of people.
Then, Sir, it also seems that in such matters that well known proverb applfos_;__" Too many cooks spoil the broth". Repeatedly we have read in:the papers not only about the Punjab municipal committees, but muni cipal committees in other parts oHndia also that they are at times unable to come to a; decision to dismiss an emplciy€e whom they have pronounced a-s being quite inefficient.
Then, Sir, there is one other matter I wish to speak about. There is l think, one serious defect in this bill. At present all the employees getting up to· Rs. 50 salaam the municipal members. If the power of appoint ment and dismissal is taken away from the members and if it is made over to the executive officer, what guarantee is there that these employees will oontinue to salaam the members? I think, Sir, some provision should be made in the bill about this matter and I think by doing so a great de_feot will have been removed.
:Rai Bahadur Lala Rattan Chand [Nominated, non-official] (Urdu): Sir, ] am an old municipal commissioner and as such ccn speak gt length end with some authority on the subject under discussoin. But as I have not been keeping good health for some time :r;r,st I will refrain from making a long speech on this motion.
The matter under discussion is 8 very important one, and we should think .twice before expressing an opinon on the subject. I would ask the liopomr,ble members to lay their hands en their hoarts and say,. whether the administration of municij a .. 1 committees has not suffered considerably under non-official control. Some 6 or 7 years ago, the Deputy Commissioners used to l:e the jresidents of the municipal committees and . the r,cllriEi;;trnt.ion of municipalities was all ttat could be desired. But ever since the nppointmmt of r.on-official presidsnts, the affr.irs of th e municipal committees l.r.ve gone voy l arl, Under the existing circumstencss dif ferent dej ertments of a rr.unieij al committee me under their respective executive t ffieers. There is no central control over them, the members have made it. impossible for them to exercise fl healthy control over their subordinates on aeoount of communal tension, party feelings and personal interests.
In my opinion, tl;e appointment of r;n executive c fficer, who is oapablo of discharging bis duties frnrlessly · and conscientiously will go a long way towards solving this problem, \Vith these words, I heartily support this bill.
[22ND NovR.1927~ PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUN:CIL, 1~48
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It had never entered our minds that the new Minister and his advisers would be preparing an engine of destruction which will drain away the last drop 'bf blood in our veins ; and which will render self-government lifeless as a corpse, Sir, this is the reward of the progreas which we have made during the fast eight or nine years.
The amendment moved by my honourable friend Chaudhri Afzal Haq merely demands that the consideration of the bill should b2' postponed tor another two months or so and in the meanwhile it may be circulated for eliciting public opinion thereon, _B:it tho Government o9bials ate notorious for their obstinacy .. They have never given wa.y in the past to the righteous demands of the people and aronot likely to do so now. The mem bers of Government have always . disdainfully refused to follow the right path and are not likely to change their tactics this time. 'Phe indecenthaste with which this bill is proposed to b3 rushed through clearly signifies th~.t some power is working behind the Ministry, and that the Minister is only pk\yi.ng the second fiddle to that power. I appe:\l therefore to my honouri\bl_e colleagues, whether Hindus, Muha~nm:i.i~'ls or Sikhs, to realise their res ponsibility. They owe it to themselves and to the public atlarge that this bill should not be proceeded withjto·day, and that. the consideration of the
-same should be postponed so that the people should have an opportunity · · of expressing their opinions on it.
- .. Sir, this measure is perhaps the most important that has been intro
ducted in this Council ever since the inauguration of the reforms. _The honourable members of the Council before giving their votes should realise this fa.0t that this bill is dealing a death blow to the system of local self·
.government in this province. They should realise the fa0t thatthe Punjabis the most backward province in India, and that the voice raissd here doaa IlQt find an echo in any other part of this vast continent. They should realise once for all that the Punjab is not taking large strides towards progress : it is, on the other hand, going down the incline with a. vengeance. · If this, bill is passed to-day, of what use would be the reforms to us. If once we give our consent to this bill, we have no right to dermnd anything in the way of selt-govemment.
After ruling us fo~· 15') years, the British Governmsns was pleased to reward us with a petty instalmeat of self-government but to-day we are dubbed as being incapable of shouldering this respoasibility. Goodness knows
whether we shall have anything to do with the Royal Commission or not is 'beside the point, but we are certainly interested in the .advaneemeat :of self -govemment in this province. With the creation of the third ministry
. and the appointment of one of the elected members to this exalted position we were hoping that we shall get a further instalment of self-government, but we had not even dreamt of the fact thilt what little we possess will:.be
'taken away from us, and that a cruel blow will be aimed at the sapling which we had nourished with our life blood- ·
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THE PUNJAB MUNIOIPAL (EXECUTIVE OFl!'ICElt) BILL. lW
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Sir, I should like to te11 the Government in no uncertain t ei ms frat what little sympathy or love it had gained during the last eight er nine years it will lose by pressing this 1:i1). 'Ihe Goverr msnt by its present attitude
. is disgracing itself and I would therefore call upcn every member of the· Council, whether he is a supporter er a critic to advise the Government to abandon its present attitude of ridir g rcughshc d ever the f€elings of the public. I would ask ths m to request the Government net to destroy the sapling which we have nourished with cur life bleed. I would ask them to request the Government to learn to respect the voice of the country. I would ask them to tell the Government that r.o harm wculd ensue if this bill is postponed for another two or three months, Now let us SEe what this bill really signifies. I will discuss its provisions section by section and clause by clause and expose the hollowness of the Government's claim that it is meant for the good of the people. I should like to say at the very outset that the absurdities of this bill go on increasing as we f·ass en frc m one clause to another, and that the only o bject of this lill is to wrest frc m our hands .. what. little power we possess in the matter of managing our own. affairs. It is from beginning to end a living insult to the patriotic and national sentiments of the Indians and proclaims in unequivocal terms cur incapacity for self-government.
Now I will take the bill clause by clause, Clause 1 deals with the ex· tent of the .Act and says that it will be applicable to the municipal com mittees of Lahore and Amritsar, but it can be extended by the Local Gov ernment to any other municipalities of the first class. The Government by introducing this provision has tried to silence such of the members who are the residents of second class municipalities. Why should they bother their heads about an .Act which will apply to the municipal committees of Lahore and .Amritsar and other first class municipalities? But I should
· like to tell these gentlemen that if the Government desires to thrust an executive officer upon such municipalities, what is there to prevent them from making a second class municipality a first class one and thereby make this Act applicable to it ?
Clause 2 of the proposed bill deals with definitions. I do not, however, propose to discuss them just at present. I will do so when the time comes. Clause 3 relates to the appointment and pay of the executive c fficer. The Government has not imposed any limitation upon its right of approving
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[Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam.] whether our teachers have the best of .motives for depriving us of this or whether we have really proved ourselves incapable. The Government was
· pka_sfd to initiate us into the mysteries of self-government and when we . had Isemt by rote the alphabet of self-government by grinding at it for
· eight or nine years we e,ie now told by Government that we are incompetent, and that this primer of self-government at which we had been grinding for so many years should be taken away from us.
[22ND N OVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. ,.1250
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Next comes the question of bye-laws. Here, too, the Government has shown its unrelenting hand by laying down that all bye-laws framecf prior to or after the passing of this Act shall be null and void if they are inconsistent with this Act. The Government has by one stroke of the pen. done a.way with the municipal committees ; it has done away with the bye· laws and now comes the turn of the Secretary. Ordinarily the Secretaries. of municipal committees are non-officials, though it is a. fact that in certain· municipalities officials have been thrust as Secretaries. Now under clause 5 of the proposed bill the Secretary too is deprived of bis powers and in future· his powers will be exercised by the executive officer. The work of des· truetion is thus complete. -
Next comes clause 4. It deals with the powers of the executive officer and lays down that all the powers, duties and functions vested' in the committee shall vest in the executive officer to be exercised by him. subject to such limitations, restrictions and conditions as may be imposed' by the Local Government. In other words the municipal committoo will become a. mere nonentity and the executive officer will be all-in-all. May I ask, Sir, if this is in consonance with the principles of Self-Government ?' During the last eight or nine years we have been enjoying some sort of self· government, but even this is being taken away from us and still the Govern ... ment insists upon saying that self-government will be doled out to us by degrees. It is no use deceiving us. "Why does not the Government say honestly that nothing will be given to us ? Why does the Government try to keep us in the vicious circle of giving with one hand and taking away with the other ?
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The executive officer will be a servant of the Government, The Gov· ernment alone will be able to suspend or remove him, but the municipal committees will have to foot his salary bill. This reminds me of a story in which two friends entered into a partnership for the purchase of 0., she buffaloe. One of them who was the cleverer of the two insisted that the other will have to supply grass arid fodder for the buffaloe and in case it was lost he will have to make a report to the Police and in the event of its death, he will have to purchase a new one and to crown all he will have to spare the whole of the milk for the other one. This story aptly applies to the Government. The committee will be called upon only to pay and the Government will reap the benefit in the shape of having its own man appointed to the post of executive officer .
the appointment of an executive officer. It can approve of the appoint inent of any body and every body, no matter whether he is blind or oripple; whether he is insane or a knave. · But as far as the committee is concerned'. it can only appoint an executive officer with the concurrence of two-thirds of its members; and if they fail to do so, the Government would thrust one upon, them. But this is not all. The municipal committee is not entitled to suspend or remove an executive officer. The powers of suspension and dismissal are completely vested in the Local Government. The com mittee can only make a recommendation to this effect to the Local Govern ment, and that too in case two-thirds of the members of the municipal com- tni!tee are of this opinion. Now come:s the question of emoluments.
THE PUNJAB MUNICIPAL {EXECUTIVE OFFICER) BILL, 121Sf
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Dr .. Shaikh Muhammad Alam.] . Clau.se 6 deals with .contrects.' Under the Municipal Aet the com
. mittee had the right of giving contracts, but this power is also being takeh away, Under this clause every contract entered into by the committee shall be made on behalf of the committee by the executive officer. ··
, ... Next comes clause 9. This clause gives I the executive officer the right of attending all meetings of the committee and of any sub-com mittee, except the one where the question of his suspension or removal is being discussed. But no such question will ever arise, because if he is present in all other meetings no such proposal for his suspension or removal from office can. possible arise. Who will dare to raise a voice against a favourite ofthe Government, against a civilian who has already seen service under-tho Government ? This clause has been imported into the bill with a view to, prevent freedom of speech and liberty of action of the municipal commis- · sioners, The executive officer will be a sort of censor placed over the head of the City Fathers. Lastly, there is clause 10. Here the Government has shown its love of concentrating all power into its own hands. It prescribes that the powers given to the executive officer shall be exercisable subject to the control of the Local Government and its satellites, the Deputy Com missioner and the Commissioner. In other words, if the executive officer is a man of independent character and has the temerity to act on his own initiative he will have no option but to bend his knees before the Govern ment as provided by this clause.
This in short, Sir, is the true character of the bill which we are called upon to pass in such a hurry, without giving the public a chance of expressing its opinion upon its merits or demerits.
Some of my friends have expressed the opinion that the appointment of executive officers is essential because corruption is rife in . the municipal
· committees; butt Sir, does it. stand to reason that by the appointment of a s_i~JP.e.~xecutive officer corruption will be eradicated? Does ~ot corruption exist m each and every department of Government, and 1f Government )as not been able to put a stop to it in 150 years, how can it say .that eorrup .tion will. be eradicated by the appointment of an executive officer or. exe- cutive officers7 The only solution of the difficulty lies in the fact that Government shouldmake up its mind to listen to the advice of its critics. It should not be led away by the representations or what should be more properly called, the misrepresentations of its toadies and hangers-on, and as long as this is not done corruption cannot be stopped. It was with a view to bring to light the corruption practised in police thanas and police offices that I requested the Head of the Police Department to grant to the members of the Police Standing Committee of this Council, the right of visiting police stations and police offices just as the members of the Jail Committee are granted the right of visiting jails. But he flatly .refnsed to accede to my request. This shows the mentality of the Government and its responsible officials. Neither the Government nor its officials are prepared to take the representatives of the public into their confidence, and the result of it is that corruption is practised under the very nose of the Government and nobody seems to be the wiser for it. The Government .will not allow the non-official members to help it b.v thei11 criticism of its methods and matters seem to be at a stand-still.
[22ND Novs. 1927. PUNJAB LEGlSI,ATIVE, COUNCIL.
Sir, I had absolutely no intention of imputing bad motives to any one. My remarks were addressed to no member in particular. All that I wish to say is this, that the presentation and introduction ol such bills is the result of a deep set policy for depriving the Punja bis of their right of governing themselves. · We are not in need of a captain. If the powers of the municipal committees are to be taken away from them, where is the justification for us to stick to our rights in this Council? Upon this question ·rests the foundations of our national life and, therefore, no Indian worth the name should allow this legislation to be rushed through this session of the Council. With these words I again request my honour a~le colleagues to support the motion under discussion.
Mr. J. G. Beazley (Secretary, 'I'ransferred Departments) : Sir, I do not want to follow the members who have spoken already into the various provisions of this Bill. The time for that will, I hope, come later when we consider the provisions of the Bill. I wish merely, with reference to the main question which we are now considering that is, whether the oon sideration of the Bill should be postponed or not, to lay before the House the history of this legislation. Some of the members have said that it is a hasty piece of legislation being rushed through without an opportunity being given to members to understand it or realise the meaning of the various provisions of the Bill. .
Mr .. President : Order, order. I do not think any member has said that the members of the Council do not understand the Bill. The eoa tention put forward is that the Bill has not been circulated for public opinion. No one has said that he does not understand the Bill.
Mr. J. G; Beazley: It has been represented, at any rate, that it is a hasty piece of legislation which Government is attempting to rush through. The genesis of this Bill was a note made by a Select Committee appointed by this Council to consider a Bill to amend the main Punjab Municipal Act in 1922. The Select Committee then noted that they were unanimously of opinion that a separate Bill should be drafted so as to provide for the appointment of an executive officer in municipalities as in Presidency towns. This rooommeDd.ation of the Seleot Committee was coesidered by Government ••
Again, a friend of mine was pleased to say thatjust as a cricket. team vnll b~ nowhere without a captain, similarly, the municipal committees are labouring under a great disadvantage in the absence of executive officers. The only reply which I can make to this analogy is that it is our slave mentality which impels us to say such things.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : Is it not an insinua- tion, Sir, to say that a. member possesses a slave mentality? · . .
Mr. President : The honourable member will proceed and speak to the question. I think he has been shown sufficient latitude already.
Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam : I will submit that I am trying to pin myself only to the particular issue, that is the consideration of this Bill should be postponed.
i.!'r,J,) j,'- ·~ ',!)Jf ~ ~ , ... /"<~,) Y~I ~ c: }!:3U J ,),.b.s:\i<> .J,.)l:--
'.Mlil PUNJAB MtJNlOIP.~L (EXECUTIVE OFFICER) BILL, 1258
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i>uNJAn tBmsr..u1VB cotison, i254 [ Mr. J. G.Bea.zley.] and as a result, a few months later, the matter was put before the Standing Coznn ittee on Local Self-Government of this Council, and that Standing Committee reported in favour of the institution of an executive officer in all municipalities with a minimum income of Rs. 4 lakhs a year. In consequence of thi:i t recommendation of. the Standing Committee, a Rill was drafted and was circulated to the presidents of three of the largest municipalities in the Province-Lahore, Amritsar and Rawalpindi. Their reception of the Bill wa's various. Some thought that it did not go far enough and others thought it went too far. The question was, therefore, in the beginning of 1924, again re ferred to the Standing Committee on Local Self-Government of the Council, and that Standing Committee recorded the view that the draft Bill enabling the committees to appoint officers was not suitable. The Bill merely gave t1¥, option to the eommittees to appoint Chief Executive Officers and it also proposed that those Chief Officers should derive their powers by delegation frOill the respectise authorities. The Standing Committee advised that that Bill was not suitable, and that legislation enabling the appointment in the Iargest municipalities of the Province of officers on the analogy of the Municipal Commissioner of Bombay should be undertaken, but it was thought that at that time though such a Bill would Le good in principle, it was not advisable to introduce it for financial reasons. Tho legislation, therefore, w~s postponed in 1924, but in 1925 the matter was again taken up and in consequence of the recommendation of the Standing Committee, a Bill modelled on the Bombay principle was drafted. 'fhat was the present Bill in its original form. '11hat Bill was then circulated to 12 of the largest muni cipal committees in the Province in order to obtain their opinions and copies ware also supplied to the members and a considerable correspondence took place in the press during the 3 or 4 months in the summer of 1925. The Bill was then again, after all these opinions had been received, referred to the Standing Committee on Local Self-Government, but the Committee wes divided in its opinion as to whether the Bombay model or the Calcutta model should be followed. Duri.ng1926, the Minister then in charge of Local Self-Government did not feel in a position. to bring forward the Bill. This y~r the matter was again placed before the Standing Committee. Unfor tunately, only two members of the Standing Counnittoe ou Local Self-Govern· ment look the trouble of attending that meeting and they were divided in, their opinion. Government, therefore, decided to proceed with the Bill and it was introduced into the Council in July, four months ago. The whole subject bas been before the Province and people interested in the subject, for five years and more. I ask, under these circumstances, is there any need to obtain any further information than that which we have already obtained in the Select Committee? Tbe Select Committee was composed of 8 present or foqner members of municipal committees, two of them having been presidents, and it cannot be supposed that the municipal point of view was· entirely disregarded in the deliberations of the Select Committee. The Select Committee consisted of-
~ai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram, . Diwan Bahadur Raja Narendrs Nath,
· · )'I_alik Nawab Major Talib Mehdi Khan,
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Sardar Habib Ullah, Mt'. Din Muhammad, Lala Kesho Ram, Sekhri, Bardar Ujjal Singh, Sardar Mohindar · Singh, Captain Sr.rdar Sikander Hayat Khan, Rima Firoz-ud-Din Khan, Mr. Lr.bh Singh, La.la Mohan I1al,
ind r.11 have unanimously signed the Select Committee report, except )fr. Lnbh Singh whose minute of dissent is attached to the report. ' The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: I would like to know what the views of the Council are. I do not wish to press r. measure of this sort at a pace which the members of the Council consider a hasty one. It may ho that the speeches that have been so far msde were mads in ignoranoe of the facts tlrnt have just now been narrated by the Secretr,ry, Transferred Depart· ments. But if still t>,fter the relation of these facts, the Council thinks that more time should be given for considsration of the Bill by the public at larga and by members of the Council, I would certainly be the last person io go against the wishes of the Council. I should like to know the wishes of the Council as to whether they still wish the Bill to be postponed for further
_ oonsideration. If that is their wish, I will willingly accept their suggestion but I leave the matter for the decision of the Council.
Mr, President : In other words, what the Honourable Member pro,. poses is that the amendment 1rnJ.y now be put to the House ? ·
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: Tlrnt is not my wish. Now thr.t the statement has been made by the Secretary, Transferred Departments, I should like to know the views of the House.
Mr. President : Will the Honourable Member point out any rule or standing order under which the views of the House may be ascertained other- wise than by putting the amendment to the House? ·
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: If any member would like to make a speech, that might be an indication of the views.
Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram [South-East Rohtak (Non-Muham madan), Rural]: Sir, some of the members who spoke a few minutes ago have complained, and complained bitterly, though wrongly, that adequate· opportunity has not been given to the House or to the public in general to discuss this Bill. I think after the narration of the facts by the Honourable ~fomber Mr, Beazley, it ought to be clear to everybody that more time has been given to this Bill than to any other Bill that has come before this Council during the last five years.
Diwan Bahadur Raja Natendra Nath: Except the Land Revenue (Amendment) Bill.
Rai Sahib Chaudbri Chhotu Ram: Even the Land Revenue (Amend ~t) Bill comes only next to· this Bill, This Bill has been discussed before
112
• tlrE PUNJAB MUNICIPAL (EXECUTIVE OfFICER) BILL, 1~55
[ Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram. ] so many special committees ; it has been published in ~e official gazette; it has been referred to past Presidents of municipal committees· and it has been commented upon in the press. There is absolutely no reason why this Bill should· now be circulated for any further elucidation of public opinion. My own opinion is that it will be sheer waste of time to circulate this Bill over again. I may just- draw the attention of the House to the fact that before this Bill came for discussion in the July session, it was pub lished in the Gazette of 22nd July. I doubt whether any members who have shown so much heat to-day (hear, hear) took the trouble of addressing a single line either to the Honourable Minister or to the press. If so much apathy has been shown by the members of this House who are all educated, I do not think any useful purpose win be served by circulating the Bill ove1 ag::>.in and my humble opinion is th,,t the Bill should be t:~ken into consider· ation in this session and passed, (Applause).
~aizada Hans Raj [Jullundur-cum-Ludhiana (Non-Muhammadan), Rural] (Urdu) : Sir, I have only to say a few words in connection with the amendment under consideration. I am not at one with the honourable member who has referred to the municipal administration of Amritsar when he says that the appointment of an official President for a municipal com mittee is always good and conducive to better administration, and that the municipal committees have much deteriorated since the appointment of non-official Presidents. It may have been in the case of Amritsar munici pality about the work of which the Honourable Member has some experience. Sir, while discussing the Lahore municipal administration some honourable members of the House have transgressed the ordinary limits of courtesy and have gone so far as to make attacks which one may take as personal on the gentleman who had once been the President of the Lahore _ municipal committee. The present Municipal Administration of Lahore may not be QE)tter than what it was under the official President, but at the same time it cannot be said to be worse. Sir, I have not only been a member, but have had the privilege and the honour of being the President of Jullundur muni dpal committee, and that at a time when the non-co-operation movement was at its height. I admit that our committee earned a name-perhaps a bad name in official eyes-for presenting an address of welcome to Mahatama G~d~. This was such a heinous offence in the opinion of local officers that ill spite of thefact that we had succeeded in presenting a balanced budget by effecting economies in various directions, the Deputy Commis sioner did not think fit to send up ourlocal budget to Government for sanc tion. We held our soul in patience till the month 0£ April arrived. The Municipal employees were clamouring for their pay, but nothing could be done since the requisite sanction of the budget had not been received. I wrote to the Deputy Commissioner, but in vain. There was a lengthy corre spondence on the subject which culminated in a notice from Government asking us to show cause why our committee should not be dissolved and the charge of the administration taken over by the Government. On receipt of this I went over to the Commissioner with the keys and necessary papers who advised me to keep patience and see the Deputy Commissioner. I w:a_s a;~eliever then as now in non-co-operation and as such it was not usual f<>i: ~E:1 tq paiy visits to Gqve.rQIIJ,ent offlcials, fa the ~teres~ Qf tlw
[2~p N OVB, 1927. PUNJA;B Li&,GlS1'4TJVlt .CQU?'{CJ?j. 1256 •
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The question is that thr.t c::nnrlment be made,
r,rhe motion was carried,
"That the Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill he circulated for the purpose of eliciting opinion thereon by 2l~t ;January Hl28."
since which an amendment has been moved :
"That the Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill as reported by the Seleot Commit- tee be taken into consideration." · ·
•
committee, however, and much~ga.inst myinclinaticn, I a.ccepteq ·UlEl ~vice of the Commissioner and interviewed the Deputy Commissioner. .U1~ Deputy Commissioner was Mr. Jacob, He asked me to put off my khadar clothes as .a condition precedent to the sanctioning of the budget (laughter and a cry 6f shame). To this my reply was that I preferred self-respect to self-government (laughter). '£his mutual warfare between the Deputy Commissioner and the Committee was going on when the Deputy Com missioner had resort to other tactics. He asked the Committee to levy a fresh tax on the ratepayers with a view to raise a. sum of fifty thousand rupees. It was clear that this suggestion was made with a view to lower us in the esteem of the ratepayers. We had no option but to refuse to eomply with his request. There was no possibility of any compromise. H so happened that the Local Self-Clovernment portfolio was then held.by tfui Honourable Mian Sir ]'azl-i-Husain who summoned both the non-co-operat ing President and ~fr. Jacob, Deputy Commissioner, to Simla. In spjte .pi my khadar dress, I was admitted to the presence of the Honourable Mµust~i' who after giving a patient healing to both sides gave the verdict in 11,1,:YQQ! of the municipal committee. 'Ihis, Sir, will give you an idea of the use 01'. rather abuse of the power vested in and the control exercised by the P.epµty Cnmmissior.er over the affairs of municipal committees. Sir, to be brief I would ask this Honourable House to calmly consider the consequences , of such an enactment. Sir, it is very unfortunate, but it is a fact that whene,rer , ; ,,. a new calamity visits India, it is the Punjab that it. selects for its 'visit_'. It was the Punjab which was visited by plague first of all. It was again the Punjab where the communal riots broke out for the first time and it is in the Punjab that this Bill is going to be passed. Sir, I am sure that the legislatures of other Provinces will have to follow the example set by the Punjab Legislative Council and therefore we have to be very careful. Si$~ the municipal committees have been under the non-official control since 1922 and if all this period bas not caused any disturbance in the administra- tion, another two months would not affect it adversely. I am, therefore, of opinion that the Bill may be circulated for eliciting public opinion thereon, I support. the motion before the House.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon (Minister for Local Self-Government): Sir, I will save the discussion, and I i~ccept the amend· ment, (Loud cheers).
Mr. President : The original motion was :
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It will be remembered, Sir, that this Bill was introduced by me in the · beginning of this year not for the first time, for, as a matter of fact, I introduced this Bill in 1926. It was referred to a Select Committee, and the Select Com mittee was considering it. Then the Council of 192G expired and the Bill expired with it, but during the meetings of the Select Committee I had as- 8UrPd the members that 8S soon as the new Council was r,ssembled I would re-introduce the Bill. Well, Sir, it W2,S not for the first time that the Bill was placed before the Council in 1926 either. This Council has been persis-! tent in its desire to have a revenue Bill brought before it since 1922, so fat as ] recollect. In the various debates during the budget sessions and other sesrions, members 0£ different constituencies have been pressing Government hard to prepare a Bill and bring it before the Council. This has been dono, but the subject is one of extreme difficulty and the reason why last time I did not move that the Bill be rsferred to P Select Committee was that, as ~ matter of f~ct, I was myself going P,wr.y from tho province for v. short while and I felt that it would probably be best if the Select Committee sat when I was also in the Punjab. The honourable members of the Council expressed their willingness to meet my wishes in this connection and therefore I under to;:,' to make this motion r.s soon as the Council assembled after the Simla season. It is in pursuance of that promise that I am making this motion to refer the Bill to the Select Committee. There is, I notice, Sir, a.n amend ment tabled that the Bill be circulated for the purpose of eliciting opinion thereon by 21st January 1930. Well, Sir, to me as Revenue Member it ~ould afford a very great relief indeed, if this Council carried that amend ment. It would moon that for the next two or three years, this Council does not want to see this Bill. I will be very glad indeed, Sir, if this is the wish of the members. As Member in charge of the Bill, and as Leader of tho House, however, I am prepared to assure the House that I am not keen that this Bill be pushed through with any great haste. The Council can take its own time and if the members of this Council wish that for two or three years the Bill be not brought before the Council, I tun quite ready to do so.
Mr. President : I invite the attention of the Honourable Sir Fazl-i Husain as well as of the members of this Council to Article 79 of the Business Rules. It says :
"When a Bill is introduced or on some subsequent occasion, the member-in-tharge ma.y make one of the following motions in regard to his Bill, namely:-
(a) that it be taken into consideration by the Council either at once or at some future day to be then specified : or "
t bis is the particular sentence to which I wish to draw the special atten- tion of the honourable members. •
"(b) that it be referred to a Select Committee composed of such members of the Council as he may name in bis motion."
As no names of members have been mentioned in the motion, the motion a incomplete and defective, so I must decline to put it to the House.
THE PUNJAB LAND REVENUE {AMENDMENT) BILL. The Honourable Mian Sir Fa.zJ.i.,ffusain (Revenue Member) : Sir,
I beg to move : • "That th~ Punjab Land Revenue (Amendment) Bill be referred to a Select _Commit·
tee."
[22ND Novn. 1927. PUNJJ.B LEGtBLATIVE COUNCIL.
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"The· Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: - I bow to your ruling. It is perfectly correct that the names ought to have been put in. As a matter of fact, I have got the names with nie now, and if you feel that the motion should be completed I will at once comply with your desire. \Vhat I had in mind was this that in view of the amendment proposed if the rules permitted it might be found possible to split up the motion into two parts and the discussion which was going on •.........
Mr. President : Order, order. As the motion itself has not been put yot from the Chair, the House is not in possession of it, and when the House is not in possession of the motion no amendment to it can be moved.
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-d .. Husain: Perhaps I have not been able to make my meaning clear. If the Chair were pleased to take· the view that in view of the amendment it would be advisable to split-the motion into two parts and to put the first part to the House, thenit would not be necessary to give the names of the members now. I have got the names and if the Chafr rules. . . . . . . ·
Mr. President: Will the Honourable Member please make himself clear ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain r Sir, the motion as a whole consists of the part regarding the. reference of the Bill to the Select Committee plus the second part giving the names of the members of the Select Committee. In view of the amendment that was to be moved and to which I was not personally opposed I thought that perhaps the rules might permit the President to split up this motion into two parts and put the. first part to the House first. 'fhe question is whether the House wants the Bill
· to be referred to the Select Committee or be circulated for eliciting further opinion. In case it is decided that the Bill should be circulated for eliciting public opinion the second part of my motion would be unnecessary. But in case the Chair cons ders that it is not open to me to move my motion unless it is complete, I am at your service.
Mr. President : I would ask the Honoura blo the Revenue Member to read Article 79 of tho Business Manual, Under that Article it was open to him to make one of the three motions with regard to his Bill-:-
(1) that it be taken into consideration by the Council eith~ at once or at some future day to be then specified; or
(2) that it be referred to a Select Committee composed of such mem bers of the Council as he may name iu his mot-ion ; or
(3) that it be circulated for the purpose of eliciting opinion thereon. Af tor having once chosen the second course, now he wants to fall
back upon the third alternative, which has been suggested by a member of the Council in the form of an amendment under Article 81. The motion as it stands is defective ~ therefore, I decline to put it to the House.
The 'Honourable Mian Sir Fazl·i·Husain : Then would you not permit me to complete it ?
h"E P\rNJA.B -LAND RlilV:Ji]NUE (AMEND~NT) BiLt. •
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Chaudhri Afzal Haq: (Hoshiarpur-rum-Ludhiana, Rural (Urdu): Sir, 1 beg to move-
" That the Punjab Land Revenue (Ame.ndment) Bill be circulated for the purpose of elicting opinion thereon by 21st January 1928."
Sir, I have never found myself in agreement with the terms of the La.nd Revenue Rill since its very inception and introduction. I had, however, kept silent expecting that some other zamindar member of this Honourable House would come forward and tell the Honourable Member for Revenue that the demand of this Council is nothing short of permanent settlement andthis Bill in any form is not acceptable to the general public and the poor zamindars. I admit that the present draft of the Bill is a. great improvement • the 'Bill as originally introduced. Of coarse it has provided some. facili ties for the zamindars, but it has done no· material good to them. Sir, centuries ago, Manu, for the first time introduced a system of assessment ln:the country which underwent certain changes in later times. But because the·ciroumsta.nces of the country did not permit, no regular law was enacted on·~e subject. In the time of Alla-ud-Din Khilji an attempt was made to systematise and legalise the existing custom, but to no particular advan tage. During Akbar's regime Malik Ambar and Raja. Todar Mal intro· duced a system of assessment in the country which was given the sanction of law. The Mughal Emperors who succeeded him did not. bring- about any chanzes in the system realising the consequences which the !)nha!Xling qf land reveiue too frequently entailed. Unfortunately since the advent of the British Government Settlement operations have been made and limn :revenue enhanced after every tenor twenty years. Sir, I think it imaolit.io.on the part· of the Government to effect changes and revisions in record~ after
I
· .;},•. The Honourable Member for Finance, The Revenue Secretary, The Legal Remembrancer (e.t·officio), The M:emher-in-chr.rge' of the Bill, Savad Muhammad Husain,
. Di:.Van Bahadur Raja Narendra Nath, Rana. Firoz-ud-Din Khan, Sardar Ujjal Singh, and The President's nominee.
Mt. President : The question 1s- ~'Tha.t the Punjab Land Revenue (Amendment} Bill be referred to a Select Committee
consisting of the following :- · The Honourable Member for Finance, The Revenue Secretary, The Legal Remembrancer (ex-officio), The.Member-in-Charge of the Bill, Sayad Muhammad Husain, Diwan Bahadur Raja Narendra Kath. Rana F'iroz-ud-Din Khan. Sardar Ujja.J Singh, and· The President's nominee.
Mr. President :\,I have no objecticfh to hisrgiving at this stage th& rumies of the m~ber#of the Select Committee.' .
The Honourable Mian Sir F~zl-i-Husain : ThA names of the · members of the Select':('ommitte.e a'!e- o
[22ND Nova, 19'27 . . ~VNJ'AB L'EiHSltA:TIVE C01!1'NOIL. ..•
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MEASURES TO PREVENT THE CRUMBLING OF HOUSES IN BAMBRiAt, .. .409. Lala Gopal Das a Will the Honoumble Minister for Local
S~lf-Governihent · state what measures have been taken to prevent the crumbling of· houses in 11\ambrial ? .
Y~j t?n years even with ffi@!rd to those areas:whi~h ai;e n_ow inoapa.ble ifyieidmg any further -~l'op or greater revenue. ";he Pf>Pie,iH the {iJOvince
*)i~v~ much tq say agalnst the--·pl'esent system. Sir, the advancement and .contentment of the people of Bengal is due to .the permanent settlement ~d- thil is why wJ do notfind there any agitation of this nature. It was L,:ll',d Cornw3:11is who made a report i_n favo~u of permanent settlement-~i:ng iJ; on·tw.o n;i~1i;i. grounds, firstly that in the interest of the people's aJlegiaiw-e
__ to the Crown it was essential for the Government to comply with their wi&Aes andeecondly, if the land revenue _were to: be reassess~d after. every ten i>r
.. twenty yeara the people would hesitate to improve their lands and the Gov- ernment would also stand to· lose in the long run. During the Great War the sons of the soil readily responded to the clarion call of duty and if in consideration of that we were to be treated according to the principles en uneiated in the report made by Lord Cornwallis our province would be found all the more deserving. Sir, the Punjab made good many sacrifices during the Great War and it has a right to demand that Government should, in consideration of all these sacrifices, mete out a preferential treatment to her sons. We have purchased that right with our blood and it will be by po means a cheap bargain. The people of this province are industrious, persevering and are not easily cowed down by adverse circumstances. Sir, they have always realised the economic pressure caused by a. periodical en hancement o:f revenue, but they have failed to address their efforts to amelio rate the condition of their lands in order to meet the exorbitant demands of the Government. l\fy honourable friend Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Bam has rightly observed that it is a great pity that the zamindar has to pay enhanced land revenue even if he has sunk a well at his own expense, Besides the Bill is defective in another respect. It contains no saving clause. It' would apply to the whole of the Punjab. With the exception of two or three districts there is absolutely no room for further agricultural develop ment in the province. Take for instance the districts of Sialkot, Hoshiar pur, Ludhiana, Jhelum and Campbellpur, where even the hills and ridges are not spared and have been brought under cultivation. Sir, there is a general complaint that we have no grazing grounds for our cattle and this fact alone is responsible for the deterioration of the cattle breed and absence of good nourishment for the children of this province. People have not spared even their graveyards and have ploughed them to yield more crop in order to meet their requirements. Sir, if justice is to be done to the samin dars I would say that a better Land Revenue Bill should be introduced in the Council and if the Honourable Member for Revenue cannot see his way to comply with our request, he would be well-advised if he -,,ithdraws the present Bill, for I think it to be of no use at all. Sir, I do not pn to offer any destructive criticism on the Bill but I would appeal to your good sense and say that the Bill in its present form is useless and we would be bettee without it.
•'.IJhe Council then adjourned till 2 P.M. on Wednesday> the 2Srd November, · 1927.
' . .- t ' • 1~P.1 'II', •
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The Hoaoiar•bie Malik ~iroz IChaDt NcMNi : . A dr~in k> off water from t,!l_e pools around Sambrial and a bund to prev'ent~e :ti, · water from approaching the"'town have been comtructed &tid have- .
· very sa.~i8fa.cto:ry~ The level in the w:atsr_ ilJ- the ponds has now flllltm .~1"i · drop. st11l further during the next five months. The damp in the wa · the houses· in the ·town which previously stood five feat above the floor all the year round has now disappeared and the floors themselves are much- arier. . . . •
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RECOMMENDATIONS · OF THE JoINT' SELEOT CoM1~u~TEE oF p A.RLiA.MENT, REGARDING VOTI1'G BY OFFIOIAL MEMBEliS. _
*721. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram: Will the Chief.8e~retary kindly state-- . - _
(a) the nature or class of motions on which the Joint Select Com mittee of both Houses of Parliament recommended official members to be neutral at the time of voting;
(b) whether this advice had generally been followed in the Punjab . . Council in the past ;
(c} whether the Government means to act upon this advice in th•· future? -
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*'120. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram : Will the Chief Secretary kindly state- ·
(a) the exact position of the nominated members of the Council ire the matter of voting;
(b) whether the Government asks them or expects them generally to vote with the Government ; ·
(c) whether ·if a nominated member votes against the Government he is guilty of any constitutional impropriety or incurs the- displeasure of the Government ; _ ·
. (d) whether the Government tries, directly or indirectly, to influence- : their votes or leaves them free to vote as they like: on all or any special occasions;
(e} whether the Government has any constitutional right to inftuene•· their votes ?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: {a) T11e position of a nominated non-official' member in the matter of voting is the same as that of an· elected member •.
(b), (c), (d) and (e)-_ Do -not arise.
NOMINATED MEMBERS OF THE CouNClL A.ND VOTING.
.S'.IJARRED QUES'.IJIONS AND ANSWERS.
THE Oouncil met at the Council Oham ber at two of the clock. Mr. President in the Chair. ·
·,_ PUNJAB' LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 2ND SESSION OF THE. 3RD PUNJAll LEGISLA'.I!l¥fil' COUNCIL.
. · .. .. " - Wednesdny. th~· 23rd Novembe;> 1-92~.. ·
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POWERS OF MINISTERS TO TAKE DISCIPLINARY AOTION.
*724. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram : Will the Chief Secretary kindly state--
(a) whether a Minister can even censure a member of a Provincial or an Imperial service without the concurrence of the Governor ;
(b) whether a Minister can, under the constitution, take any disci plinary action against any class of servants in his own right
Powaas OF MINISTERS, REGARDING APPOINTMENTS AND DISMISSALS.
*723. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram : Will the Chief Sec retary kindly state-
(a) whether appointments to subordinate posts carrying a pay of less than Rs. 250 per mensem in transferred departments
. are made by heads of departments ; (b) whether appointments to posts carrying a monthly pay of Rs. 250
or upwards in transferred departments are made by Ministers with the concurrence and sanction of the Governor;
(c) whether there are any class of servants whom a Minister can dis, miss without the concurrence of the Governor? If so, what are those classes ?
Mr. H. W. Emerson ~ The information asked for is being collected and will be communicated to the honourable member in due course.
REOOMMENDATIONS OP THE JOINT SELlJOT COMMITTEE OF PARLIAMENT, REGARDING VOTING BY Oi'FtOIAL MEMBERS,
*722. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram. : Will the Chief Secretary kindly state-
(a) whether the Joint Select Committee of the two Houses of Parlia ment recommended that official members of the Council should, generally speaking, remain neutral when a motion relating to a transferred department was voted upon ;
(b) whether this recommendation had generally been acted upon in the Punjab Council? If not, why not?
Mr. H. W. Emerson : (a) The honourable member presumably· refers to the Joint Select Committee of the two Houses of Parliament on the Govanunent of India. Bill. The Committee made no such recommenda tion.
(b) Does not arise.
Mr. H. W. Emerson: (a) The honourable member presumably refers to the Joint Select Committee of the two Houses of Parliament on the Gov ernment of India Bill. '.lihe Committee made no recommendations of this eharaoter ..
(b) and (c) Do not arise.
[23RD NoVR. 1927. PUN,JAB LEGISLATIVE OOUNOIL. 1264
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*TD. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram: Will the Honourable :the Minister for Education kindly state -
(a) the number, separately, of Hindu and Sikh District Inspectors per division in the province and the number of members of agricultural tribes among them ;
(b) the number, separately, of Hindu and Sikh Assistant District Inspectors per division and the number of members of agricul tural tribes among them ?
. . D1sTRIOT INSPECTORS AND Ass1sTA"N'T DISTRICT INSPECTORS
OF SCHOOLS,
*726. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Cllhoiu Ram : Will the Chief Secretary kindly state whether a Secretary or a Head of a department has a right
-of audience with the Governor without permission of a Minister? If not, what is the provision of law or rule of executive business which bars this right'!
Mr. H. W. Emerson : 1lhere is no provision of law or rule of axe -outive business whioh bars the right of audience of any person with His Excellency the Governor. '.l!he question of audience is entirely the concern of His Excellency the Governor.
RIGHT OF AUDIENCE OF SECRETARY OR HEAD OF A DEPARTMENT WITH GOVERNOR.
*725. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ratn : Will the Chief Secretary kindly state whether a Minister can over-rule a Commissioner or a Head -of a Department in his own right and without reference to the Governor 'l' If so, under what rule ?
Mr. H. W. Emerson : The honourable member is referred t'oPunjab -Governmant notification No. 5899, dated the 23rd of February 1921, Rule 7.
PowER OF A MINISTER TO OVER·RULE ~ COMMISSIONER OR A HEAD OF A DEPARTPifENT.
Mr. H. W. Emerson: (a) and (b) '.IJhe honourable member is referred to Devolution Rule 10 and to Government of India, Home Department, notification No. F.-{72-II-28, dated the 21st June 1924.
and without reference to the Governor or a Head of a Depart· ment ? If so, against what classes of servants, what kind of action and under what rules?
1265 STARRl!ID QUEST?O~S AND ANSWER~.
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The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: A statement showing the desired information is laid on the table.
[23nD Nova. 1927 • . PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1266
1 Vol. VIII-B, pages 1167-81, and page exll , Appendix VIII.
CENTRAL '.URAINING COLLEGE.
*730. Rai Sahib Chaudbrl Chhotu Ram: Will the Honourable the Minister for Education kindly state, separately, the number of Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs who joined the Central Training College from each divi- 1ion of the province this year and the number of members of agricultural tribes among them?
CoM~UNAL REPRESE:'ITTATION IN SUBORDINATE EDUCATIONAL SERVICE.
*729. Rai Sahib Chaudhri: Cbhotu Ram: Will the Honourable - Minister for Education kindly state the number separately of Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims appointed, permanently or temporarily, in the Subordinate Educational service in each division since January last to posts carrying a pay of Rs. 80 or upwards and the number of members of agricultural tribes ,, among them?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Whe honourable member iii referred to the answer to Council questions1 Nos. 1961-1975.
COMMUNAL REl'RESEN'TATION IN PROVINCIAL SERVICES,
*728. Rai Sahib Chaudhri'ChhotuRam r Will the Honourable the .Minister for Education kindly state-
(a) the number, separately of Hindu and Sikh gentlemen appointed, permanently or temporarily, to provincial service since J anu ary .last and the number of members of agricultural tribes among ~em ; : .
(b) the number of Muslims appointed, permanently or temporarily,_ to provincial service and the number of members of agricul- · tural tribes among them'} .
The Honourable Mr .. Manohar L-1: The honourable member - jg referred to the answer to Council questions! Nos. 1961-1975.
1267 STARRED QUESTIONS AND; ANSWERS,
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The JJono~·~ M, .. Manoiw- Lal: A etatem.ent containing the information desired is laid on the table :-
(28RD NoVB. 1927~ J,268
···~·""."·'~~-·
OPENING OF JUNIOR ANGLO-VERNAOULAB TRAINING CLASSES IN GOVERNMENT INTERMEDIATE CoLLEGE, RoHTAK.
*734. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram: Will the Honourable the Minister for Education kindly state-
(a) whether Junior Anglo- Vernacular Training class is attached to any college in the South-East Punjab;
(b) if not, whether the Government intends to attach such a class to the Government Intermediate College Rt Rohta.k ~
The Hon.ourable Mr. Manohar Lal : (a) No. (b) Government does not at present propose to do so.
*733. Rai Sahib Cbaudhri Chhotu Ram: Will the Honourable the 'Minister for Education kindly state--
(a) the names of the schools which have been recognised or placed on the grant-in-aid list this year ;
(b) the names of the schools which applied to Inspectors foi· ri:ioo"· nition or for a. grant and from which recognition or grant hag been withheld ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : The informatiOJJ. m being collected and will be communicated to thf honourable member when ready.
SCHOOLS RECEIVING ORANT·IN·AID.
*732. Rai Sahib Chaudhrl Chhotu Ram : Will the Honourable the Minister for Education kindly state whether the Government is prepared to grant the concession o:f half fees to agriculturists in two most backward and poorest districts in the South-East Punjab, two in the West Punjab, one in the C011tral Punjab and one in the North-West Punjab?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The general question. of con cessions to the children of agriculturists in regard to school fees is under consideration, and the honourable member's suggestion will be considered in connection therewith.
GRAKT OF CONCESSION 0}' HALF FEES TO AGRIOULTURISTS.
*731. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chbotu Ram : Will the Honourable the Minister for Education kindly state if ha took any, and if so, what, steps to ensure that graduates from backward classes and backward areas joined the Central Training College in sufficient numbers this year ? I
The Honourable Mr, Manohar Lal: In accordance with the prac tice in recent years special consideration was given to candidates from backward classes and backward areas in making admissions to the Central Training College.
ADMISSION OF MEMBERS OF BAOKWABD CLASSES TO CENTRAL TRAINING COLLEGE,
126t S'l'ARRlllD QUBi!TIONS AND ANSWERS.
NUKBEI\ 01' WORKING DAYS IN THE 'SEORETARIAT, ETO,, OFFICES.
*73'1. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhot11 Ram : Will the Honourable the Finance Member kindly atate-
(a) the average number of working days in a year in (i) the Secretariat, (ii) the High Court, (iii) the Government College, Lahore;
(II) the number of half holidays in (i) the Secretariat, (ii) the High Court, (iii) the Government College at Lahore;
(11) whether in striking the averages these half holidays have been counted as working days?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The information iii being collected and will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
AGRICULTURISTS I:N THE JUDICIAL 8:EJRVICE,
*736. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram : Will the Honourable 1':'0mber for Finance kindly state whether the views of the High Court a bout the advisability of increasing the present proportion of agriculturists in the Judicial Service have been received ? If so, whether the Government is prepared to place them 01 tho table? If not received so far, whether the High Court has intimated the time by which the receipt of these views may be expected and if no such intimation has so far been received, whether tho Government will care to remind the High Court?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: Government understands that the reference made by Government on this matter is under t.he consideration of the Honourable Judges of the High Court. It does not consider that it is at present necessary to issue any reminder to the Hon ourable Judges.
(a) whether a new Money-Lender's Bill has been drafted ; (b) whether the sanction of the Government of India for the Bill has
been obtained ? If not, what is the exact stage reached by the proposed Bill ;
(o) whether the Government expects to introduce the said Bill in the November or January session of the Council?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) Draft Bill hes been prepared.
(b) No, because the draft is still under examination by Government. (c) Not in this session. It is not possible to say in what session it may
be found possible to introduce a Bill.
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOUNOIL,. (28RD Nova. 1927.
MONEY LENDBRS BILL,
*735. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhot11 Ram: Will the Honourable the Finance Member kindly state-
1270
Su»·JunoEs. *741, Rai Sahib Cbauclhri Chhotu Ram : Will the Honourable
Member for Finance kindly state-
(a) whether the High Court proposes to make any selection of Sub J udges this year or early next year ;
(b) whether he would make the necessary enquiries if he has no in· formation on the subject already 'l ·
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) & (b). Government is informed that the Honourable Judges have not yet arrived .at any decision in the matter.
SuB-J tmoas. *740. Rai Sahib Cbaudhri Chhotu Ram: Will the Chief
Secretary kindly state whether the High Court bas issued instruc tions to District Judges to show any kind of preference to agriculturists in making their recommendations for the posts of Sub-Judges ; and if not, whether it proposes to do so now?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: The information is being collected and will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
SUB-JUDGES.
*739. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram : Will the Chief SeC' retary kindly sta.te-
(a) the number· of candidates accepted as Sub-Judges in 1924 and 1926 separately;
(b) whether any of the candidates accepted in each of the two years were sons or near relations of judicial officers? If so, how many?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: (a) Fourteen in 1924 and fifteen in 1926; and
(b) One in 1924 and four in 19 26.
STRENGTH OF HIGH COUB'll JUDGES AND DISPOSAL OP CASES.
*738. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram: Will the Honourable the .Finance Member kindly state-«
(a) the number of High (or Chief) Court ·Judges in 1908, 1912, -1916, 1920, 1924 and 1926;
(b) the number of oases, classed under the various recognized heads, decided by the High Court in. each of the years stated in (a)?
The Honourable Sir Goeffrey deMontmorency (a) & (b). The information asked for by the honourable member is available from the annual reports (now notes) on the Administration of Civil and Criminal Justice for the years concerned.
1271 STARRED QUJ!JSTIONS AND ANSWERS.
FLOOD HAVOC IN IL.A.QA BElT.
*745. Sardar Habib Ullah : {a) Will the Honourable Member for Revenue please state whether it is a fact that. about 40 villages of ilaqs Be.it in t~ Gmda.s.pur district have been practically ruined by the recent
Boada iu. tbe Beas river?
PRIVATE TUI'l'ION.
*744. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Cbbotu Ram : Will the Hononrable the Minister for Education kindly atate the percentage for each division separately, of teachers in Government High Schools who were allowed the privilege of undertaking private tuition in 1926 ?
The Honc,urahle Mr. Manohar Lal: The requisite information ia not available. This is being collected and will be supplied to the honourable member when ready.
MATRICULATION EXAMINATION.
*743. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram : Will the Honourable the Minister for Education kindly state-
(a) the number of students who appeared at the Matriculation Ex· amination of the Punjab University this year;
(b) the number of students who appeared. for this examination this. year from Government and private schools, respectively;
(c) the general percentage of successful candidates for the province as a whole and for each of the five divisions in respect, sepa rately, 0£ Government and private schools?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : The information is being coll~ed, and will be communicated to the honourable member when rea.dy.
:aiuVJi'l'S .. OF WTlil:i.MllDIATE EUMlNATWN FOR -OovEBNMfiNfJI CoLLEG-lll AND D. A.· V. CotL&GE.
*742. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhom Ram : Will the Honourable the Minister for Education kindly state---
(a) whether it is a fact that the Government College at Lahore admits only First Division Matriculates to the First Year Intermediate class ;
(b) the number of students which the Government College and D. A.-V. College at Lahore sent up respeetively for the Inter· mediate Examination in 1916, 1920, 1924 and 1927 and the number of students who were successful in each of these years from each of these Colleges ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The information is being collected and will be supplied to the honourable member when obtained.
(28Rn Nova, 1927, Pt:TN.JAB LBGISLATIVB COUNCIL.
Inquiries made with regard to the reports which ha.ve appeared in the press as to damage by floods this year from the Beas have elicited the follow ing facts:-
In Gurdsspur district the only villages badly affected were Jagatpur Kalan, Chhawala, Daowal and Bhaini Milwan, all in the neighbourhood of Naushehrs ferry. The water extended over some other village areas also, but did not do much damage there. The river started rising at 10 A.M. on the 4th August,. the flood reached its height at 4 to 5 P.M. and subsided by midnight. The villagers had time to remove their grain and take such other protective measures as were possible •.
Detailed enquiries as to the damage done have been made in the four villages principally affected, with the following result: No human lives and only eight head of cattle were lost. Two hundred and forty-two houses have been more or less damaged but none collapsed entirely. The Deputy Commissioner has visited the spot.
The damage to crops can only be estimated at the coming girdawari It has been reported that sand was deposited on some 160· acres of land in Bhaini Milwan, Daowal and C~wa,la, b1,1t this is to some extent retrieved by good silt deposited on 12() other acres.
Beas Floods.
(b) If the answer to (a) be in the affirmative, what action does Govern ment intend to take to ameliorate the condition of the people whose cattle and store.e of grain and fodder have been swept away, houses have collapsed, crops have been destroyed, and agricultural land has become unfit for cultivation, being covered with sand about 3 feet deep ?
(o) Does Government intend to take any action to prevent a rseurr ence of such havoc?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: (a) No. Only four villages, namely, Jagatpur Kalan, Chhawala, Daowal and Bhaini Milwan, all in the neighbourhood of Naushehra ferry, were badly affected.
(b) Government has sanctioned a sum of Rs. 20,000 for distribution as taccavi in the villages a fleeted and the grant will be increased if neees sary, The Deputy Commissioner is considering the question of the necessity for suspensions and remissions of land revenue. The honourable member is referred to the Press Cmnmunique on the subject (copy of which is placed on the table) which shows that the damage done and loss sustained were not so great as is indicated in the question.
(c) No. Riverain areas throughout the province are subject to seasonal floods.
1273 STARKED QU8STIONS AND ANSWERS.
tVol. IX-A, page 379.
WELL BoRlNG BY AGRICULTURAL ENGINEER, LYALLPUlt,
*748. Lala Gopal Das : Will the Honourable! the Minister for .Agriculture please state-
(a) whether he is aware that the Agricultural Engineer at Lyallpur does not undertake tube well boring of a zamindar who may be possessing an engine of his own_;
(Q) the reasons for forcing a zamindar to dispose of his existing engine and to pay for a new one to be fitted by the Agricultural Department?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: I regret that the answer to this question is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honour able member when ready.
ALLOWANCE TO ZAILDA:RS.
*747. Lala Gopal Das: Will the Honourable the Revenue Member please state whether the allowance to zaildars has been increased ? If so, when will it be given effect to ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fael-i-Husain t The honourable member is referred to the answer given to Council question No. 26701 on the 5th March 1926.
WATER RATE ON OAT CROP.
*746. Lala Gopal Das: (a) Will the Honourable Member for Revenue please state whether the canal water rate on out crop has been raised to more than double ?
(b) If so, will the Government be prepared to reconsider the question ta.king into consideration the fact that oat crop is used for fodder only ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husein t (a) On certain canals oats were for a short time assessed at the fodder rate. After full consideration of the difficulties involved in such assessment of this crop, which is also used for grain, at varying rates, it was decided to withdraw this concession. Oats are, therefore, assessed now in Class VI and IX accord ing to whether they are irrigated by perennial or kharif channels. An exception has, however, been made in the case of declared paddock areas in certain horse-breeding estates, in these oats are assessed at fodder rates.
(b) The question has already been thoroughly considered.
* * * * * * * * *
.t Hon. Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain.] Government has sanctioned a. sum of Rs. 20,000 for distribution
as taccaoi in the villages affected .and the grant will be increased if necessary. The Deputy Commissioner is considering the question of the necessity for suspensions and remissions of land revenue.
[23RD Nova. 1927. PUN.TAB LEGtBLATIVE COUNCIL, 1274
MILITARY GRANTEES AND MILITARY JAGIR GRANTEES,
*751. Sardar Bahadur Captain Dalpat Singh : Will the Honour· •able Member for Revenue kindly state-
(a} the difference of privileges between military grantees and. military jagir grantees;
(b) whether it is obligatory on a military grantee to settle personally- -- on the land ; ·
EMPLOYMENT OF RETIR~D MILITARY OFFICERS AS SUB• REGISTRARS.
*750. Sardar Bahadur Captain Dalpat Singh : Will the Honour- able the Minister for Local Self-Government kindly sta.te--
(a) the total number of sub-registrars in the Punjab; (b) the number of retired military officers among them; (c) the pay of a departmental sub-registrar in the Punjab ; (d) whether rules exist to the effect that retired military officers
should be given preferential treatment when vacancies occur ? If not, whether Government is prepared to frame such rules?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) 202 of whom only 72 are non-officials,
(b) 26. (c) Rs. 80 per mensem except in the case of Lahore and Amritsar where
it is Rs. 120 per mensem. (d) There are no special rules for the appointment of retired military
officers as sub-registrars, and no such rules appear to be necessary, as due weight is always giv~n to the services of each candidate.
TERMINAL TAx, KABtrR MuNIOIPALIT'Y'.
*749. Lala Gopal Oas : Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state-
(a) if it is a fact that the question of terminal tax for Ka.sur Municipal Committee is under consideration of the Government;
(b) whether the question has been under the consideration of the Government for about ten yeara and still no decision has as yet been arrived at ;
(e) whether the Secretary deputed officially there has made any report in favour of the introduction of the terminal tax ;
(il) when the terminal tax would be introduced in Kasur ? The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) Yes. (b) No. (c) Government have no information. (d) 'I'he proposal to impose terminal tax is now under examination
and if it is found in order the tax will probably be imposed shortly.
1275, STARRED QUBSTIONS AND ANSWERS.
NOMI~ATION OF MusuMs To THE CmNIOT MuN101PALITY.
*753. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam: Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state-
(i) the number of seats of nominated members which have been filled up by Musalmans in Chiniot municipality;
(ii) whether it is true that the nominated members are taken only• from Khoju Sheikh community in Chiniot ?
· The Honourable Malik Firoz-Khan, Noon: (i) and (ii). The number of non-official appointed Muslim members is two and both are Khoja Sheikhs.-
APP01NTMBNT 0:P DEMOBILIZED EDUCATED COMBATANT YOUTHS;
*752. · Sardar Bahadur Captain DaJpat Singh : Will the Honour· able Member for Finance kindly stat&- ·
(a) the number of demobilized educated combatant youths who have been given civil appointments as officers in the Punjab ;
(b) whether rules exist to the effect that civil appointments as officers· should preferentially be given to them ;
(c) whether Government is prepared to issue orders accordingly, if none exist already ?
The Honourable Sir Goeffrey deMontmorency : (a) I am not sure what the honourable member means by using the word ' officers.' If hia meaning is "officials in civil departments," I will collect information showing the number of demobilized persons or ex-soldiers who have been appointed to posts of executive officers or officials or to ministerial appoint ments and supply it to him.
(b) Yes. (c) Does not arise,
[ Sar<lar Babadur C~pt. Dalpat Singh.) (c) whether the existing rules do not permit the grantee to send one
of his major sons to settle there in his own place ;
(d) whether Government is prepared to modify the existing rules . so as to permit sons: and near relatives of tJie military grantees
to settle on the land instead of the grantee ?
The Honourable MiaD Sir FazJ.-i-Husain: (a) The difference of privileges between military grantees and military jagir grantees is that the former grantees get proprietary rights on payment and are exempted from personal residence when necessary while the latter grantees receive proprie tary rights free of cost, without any residential condition.
(b) Yes. (c) No, they do not. (d) The matter is under consideration.
PUNJAB I,PJGISLATIVE COUN(IIL. i[28RD Nova, 19'27• 1276
. I
NOMINATION OF A TEACHER o~· IsLAMIA SCHOOL To THE CmNIO'.ll MUNICIPALITY.
*756. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam: (a) Will tile Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state whether it is a faot that out of the nominated seats in Chiniot municipality one is filled up by a teacher of the local Islamia School ?
(b) If so, was this fact within the knowledge of the Government at the time of making this nomination?
(c) What qualifications were considered by Government when nomi nating this gentleman ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) Yes, the member is the Headmaster of the School.
(b) The Commissioner made the appointment and was presumably aware that the candidate was a. Headmaster.
(c) Interest in education. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam: Will the Honourable Member be
able to clear this presumption? The Honourable Malik Firoz KhanJ Noon: If the honourable
member wishes, I will make enquiries. ·
NoMINATION 011 NoN-KHoJAs To CHINIOT MuNICIPALlTY.
*755. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam: Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state=-
(i) whether it is true that the proportion of elected Muslim members in Chiniot municipal committee is 1 to 6 as between non Khojas and Khojas ; -
(ii) whether the Government proposes to give both or one of the nominated seats to non-Khojas at least?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (i) Of. elected Muslim members one is a. non-Khoja and four are Khoja Sheikhs.
(ii) The appointment of members has already been made by the Oom missioner.
NOHINATION OF MR. FAKHAI.B·UD·DXN TO OHlNIOT MUNICIPALITY.
*754. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alaui : Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Helf-Government be pleased to sta.te-
(i) whether it is a fact that the Deputy Commissioner of Jhang recommended one Mr. Fakhar-ud-Din, Pleader, to be taken as nominated member of the Chiniot municipality to repre sent the non-Khoja Sheikh communities, particularly the labour classes in Chiniot ;
(ii) the result of this recommendation of the Deputy Commis sioner?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : Government do not consider it desirable to disclose the recommendation of local officers in such eases,
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
*759. Lala Joti Parshad: With reference to the reply to unstarred question- No. 817, p'ut on 22nd July 1927, will the Honourable Member for Finance please state as to what has been the result of bringing my re quest to the notice of tµe Honourable the Judges of the High Court ?
1Paga 1035 ante.
SUB-JUDGES FOR PANIPAT.
*758. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam: Will the Chief Seoreta.ry , please state--
(a) the number of appeals which have been preferred to His Excel• Iency the Governor against the orders of the Governor in Coun cil since the new - rules framed under the Government of India Act regarding the right of appeal ;
(b) the result of such appeals, if any;
(c) if the Government proposes to take steps to revise these rules with a view to grant the same right of appeal to the members of Provincial Civil Service as had existed under the previous rules?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: Government regrets that it is unable to reply to the question as the honourable member has not made it clear as to the services in respect of which he requires the information.
RIGHT 01!' APPlllAL UNDER 1'HE GovERNMRNT oF INDIA Acr.
•757. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam: (i) Will the Ohief Secretary please state->
(a) if it is a fact that formerly the members of the Punjab Civil Service had a right to appeal from the orders of the Local Government to the Government of India and further on to the Secretary of State for Indio. ;
(b) if it is true that according to the new rules framed under the Gov ernment of India Act the right of the members of the Punjab Civil Service to appeal to tho Government of India and to the Secretary of State for India has been withdrawn;
(c) if it is a fact that under the aforesaid rules the only right of appeal now available to the members of the Punjab Civil Service is to appeal to His Excellency the Governor from the orders of the
· Governor in Council? (ii) if the answers to (b) and (c) are in the affirmative, has the Gov
ernment received any representation protesting against such restriction on the right of appeal of the members of the Provin cial Civil Service ?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: (i) (a), (b) and (c) Yes. (ii) No.
RtGHT OF APPEAL BY MEMBERS 01'' PROVINCIAL CIVIL SERVICE.
[28RD NOVR, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1278
]'ACILITIES FOR THE EDUCATION OF Gmr.s IN H1ssAR, KARNAL, RoR'.l'AK AND GuRGAON DISTRICTS. ·
*762. Lala Joti Parshad : Will the Honourable the Minister for Education please state-
(a) the total population of girls of school-going age, vie., 6 to 12, in the districts of Hissar, Kamal, Rohtak and Gurgaon ;
(b) the facilities fol' education provided for girls of the school-going age in each of the said districts-
( 1) by Government, (ii) by municipal committees and district boards,
(iii) by private agencies. (c) the peroentege 0£ literacy amongst the girls of school-going age
in each district for the last five years ; · (d) the steps, if any, the Government has taken during the last fivt
years to encourage the spread oi literacy amongst girls ; (e) the measures the Government proposes to adopt during the coming
five years to promoteliteracy amongst the girls of school-going ~ge? .
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The information is being -eollected and will be supplied to the honourable member when ready.
· 1Page 910 ante.
BACKWAP..Dl'rnss OF Hrssxn, ETC., D1sTRICTs I~ Enuc,\.TION OF Gmr.s. *761. Lala Joti Parshad: Will the Honourable the Minister for
Education please state if it is a fact that the districts of Hissar, Kamal, Rohtak and Gurgaon constitute the most backward areas in the Punjab ao far as the education of girls is concerned.
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Yes.
BHATTU FATEHABAD-JAKHAL RAILWAY.
*760. Lala Joti Parsbad : With reference to the answer to questionl No, 898 starred put on 21st July 1927, will the Honourable the Revenue Member please state as to what further developments have been made with regard to Bhattu-Fatehabad-Jakhal Railway after the completion of the revenue survey in August 1927.
The Honourable M,an Sir Fael-i-Husein r I regret that answer to this question is not yet ready as the information from the Agent, North Western Railway, is still awaited on the subject. It will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The .. honourable member's request was communicated to- the Honourable Judges fqr such action as they might deem to be desirable but Government have n<? iil}O}'; mation regarding the decision of the Honourable Judges in regard to it.
BURRED QUESTIONS AND ANBWER!ll.
GOVERI\M.EMT OF THE PUNJAB. (Ministry of Education.)
From-ll. fS.ANDEllSON, ESQ,, }I.A., I.E.S., Offg. Under-Seotretary to Government, Punjab.
To-The Divisional Inspectors of Schools, t.he Inspector of Training Instituttons, Punjab, tho Principal, Central Training College, Lahore, the Principals of all Government Intermediate Colleges in the Punjab, and tho Advisor in Physical Education to the Education Department, Punjab.
C. M. -G., d2ted November, 1927.
I AM directed to address you in the matter of physical training and will be glad if you will kindly refer to the Director of Public Instruction's letter No. 5066-G., dated the 16th March, 1922, to t.hc Punjab Government (Ministry of Education), C. M. No. 822-G. S., dated the 17th August, 1923, and to the Director of Public Instruction's note on physical training dated the 16th of March 1926.
2. These documents indicate the difficulties met in developing a suitable form of physical training in this province. 'l'hey also outline the steps taken by the Ministry of Education in improving physical training in the province. Tho difficulties experienced have horn :- ·
(a) The typo of instructor that has been inherited by tho Department from earlier days when the physical training system was far
*764. Sardar Ujjal Singh : (a) Will the Honourable the Ministei: for Education please state whether his attention has been drawn to the action of Bengal and l\J.adras Governments in introducing a scheme of compulsory physical training in educational institutions ?
(b) Has the Honourable Minister contemplated a. scheme for introducing compulsory physical training in schools and colleges of which he gave an assurance in reply to my resolution on the subject during the last Simla session?
(c) If so, will he please make a statement of the detailed scheme? The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Yes. (b) Physical training is compulsory in schools and the first two vears
of Intermediate College. Arrangements have been made for the fuller development of physical training in Government colleges.
(c) A copy of the draft circular on physical training is placed on the table.
COMl'ULSORY PlIYSICAL TRAINING IN EDUCA'fIONAL INST!TU'l'IO~S.
OPENING OF NEW LIQVOR SHOPS.
*763. Rana Firoz .. ud .. Din Khan : Wil1 the Honourable the Minister fo1 Agriculture please ~tate if any new liquor shops were opened in the current year ; if so, how many and on what grounds?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: Ten new liquor shops were opened during the current year, lnt thirteen were dosed. The net result is a decrease of three sl.ops, 'l l:e ch.l"f(S were made in the interests of the public and of excise administration. - ·
[23RD Nova, 1927. PUNJAB LBGISLATIVE OOUNCIL. 1280
-----· .. -··· _,,_., ...... -
c2
from scientific. The great majority of these instructors were illiterate and, therefore-
(i) could scarcely be expected to apply intelligently any sys· tern of physical training, however good it might be ;
(ii) were unable to increase their knoweldge by a study of books;
(i·ii) as they became physically unfitted to be good practical instructors long before the age for retirement, and were unable to undertake any other type of educational work, our schools were burdened with a number of men that were inefficient and in reality unemployable.
(b) '.Dhe difficulty of arlequata supervision throughout the province by the advisor and his one assistant.
(c) The apathy of headrnastors and others in all matters relating to physical training.
(d) The difficulty of providing suitable instructors for normal schools where are trained tho village schoolmasters who deal with the great bulk of our schoolboys.
3. The steps taken to improve physical training throughout the Punjab have been of a definitely progressive nature, improving as experience in creased. The Minister is of the opinion that the experimental stage has now been passed and that we have sufficient information to lay down the nature of our policy for some years to come-
(a) The courses for physical training in all grades of educational in· stitutions have been worked out scientifically and tested in actual practice. They have been compared with the work being done by the Anny physical training staff at the Central gymnasium for the training instructors for the Army in India, and the conclusion has been reached that our courses are generally satisfactory.
(b) Strong endeavours have been made to select for training as in· structors men with educational qualifications that will enable them to be employed in other ways when they are too old for physical training work and that will also enable them to study their subjects from books. While this is a great advance, it must still be rornombered that our schools contain a large number of instructors of so poor an educational standard that no· proper use can bo made of thorn when they are too old to carry on physical training.
(c) .An attempt has been made to meet the difficulties of inspecting a large number of schools by inducing districts boards to ap· point supervisors of physical training. A certain number of boards have made these appointments, but the sy11tem has not proved entirely satisfactory. It has not been applied uni versally, and some district boards have not realised the type of man that should ho employed. In addition, inadequate control has sometimes allowed these men to waste their time.
1281 STARRED QUESTIONS .A.ND ANSWERS,
5. Three of these men have been posted to intermediate colleges and fifteen to vernacular training institutions. 'they have been appointed to appropriate grades in Government service and are given in addition a junior" allowance of Rs. 8 or a senior allowance of Rs. 15 per mensem, These allowances will continue so long as their physical training work is satis factory.
Arrangements have been made for training another batch of men to fill a similar number of posts in the coming year.
6. IDi.e Minister is of the opinion that in this system we can find a solu tion of many of our difficulties. 'llhe system is economical because these men can undertake other duties than physical training ; and, when too old for that, will bo competent and eligible to hold senior posts in schools and training institutions where their past training and experience of physical training and games will naturally incline them to watch this branch of school work with great care. Being trained men with reasonable education, they cannot only grasp the theory of physical training, but can apply it with a much greater intelligence than was shown by the old type of drill instruator. [IJhey will also have the respect of their boys, the want of which in the past made some of our physical training work farcical. As Government servants on the staff of training institutions they will be much more easily con trolled and guided than district supervisors working almost independently in board service. '.IIheir qualifications are such that they can be called upon by divisional inspectors to advise in' physical training in high .sehools.
1282 PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. [23RD N OVR, 1927. [ Hon. Mr. Manohar Lal.] . .
(d) Inspectors of all grades have been urgmg upon headmasters and others the importance of physical training, while the abolition of the divisional tournament with its trained gladiators has made possible the play-for-all movement which is rousing considerable interest in general physical development.
4. In view of the difficulties experionced in doveloping a body of dis • trict supervisors the Minister has decided to appoint men in Government service to these posts. 'Tihis has required the creation of fifteen posts of district supervisors for the current year with effect from the 1st of October, and it is proposed to provide another fifteen next year. The men available for these posts are of a new type in tho history of physical training in the Punjab. It will be noted that in the Punjab Government (Ministry of Education), C. M. No. 022-G. S., dated the 17th August, 1923, reference is made to the inclusion 0£ physical training as an elective subject for students at the Contra! Training College, Lahore. While some of the students who chose the elective subject of physical training have proved satisfactory, experience shows that it was too oft.en f;he weaker students who took the subject, 'I'horefore, in 1926 it was cf ecided to establish a special course under Mr, Hogg at the Central Training College for trained anglo-vernacular teachers. This course was nine months in length and included a training in scouting. Another novel Ioaturu was the accommodation ol tho men under canvas, and the institution of a hardy out-of-door life for all.
7. The men appointed to intermediate colleges will occupy the post of the superintendent of the hostel (without any additional allowance above that given for physical training work) will undertake the physical training of the students and if suitably qualified, will assist in the supervision of the library. As most of these men possess comparatively high qualifications, it is suggested that their spare time, if any, may be utilised in the teaching of the junior classes. It is also suggested that the Divisional Inspector and the principal of tho Intermediate College should discuss the possibility of the physical training instructor being released occasionally from his col lege duties to assist tho inspector in high schools near the college. Should touring be necessary in this connection, tours may be arranged within the travelling allowance allotments provided for colleges; but any estimate above Rs. 100 should receive the previous sanction of the Department. As these instructors have boen trained in playing games and in the duties: o! referees, it is thought desirable that they should attempt to organise games and athletic clubs for residents of all classes in the neighbourhood of the college.
8. It will be noted that the posts provided for fifteen phy.sical training supervisors are attached to training institutions. It is therefore necessary to define their position somewhat closely. These men will draw their pay and special pay in the ordinary pay bills of the institutions to which each is attached. Each of them has an annual allotment of Rs. 500 for travelling allowances. In view of the fact that more than half of the year is now finished, the allotment is reduced to Rs. 300. Travelling allowance bills should be signed by the principal concerned and counter-signed by the divisional inspector. During six months of the year the main duties of these men will -be the organisation and conducting of physical training work in the training institutions; but as all training institution are expected to carry on work among the people living round them, these ruen should encourage games and athletic clubs for the inhabitant of the neighbourhood of the school. It is suggestecl that "hen the practical examinations for training institutions begin, these men should, by arrangement between the inspector and the head of the, training institution, be set free to assist in the inspection of schools. In view of the fact that they are to function also as district super visors, time must also be allowed for them to stimulate and supervise physi cal training and recreation in the schools in the district in which they are working. To make this possible, it has been arranged to retain on the staffs· of training institutions the drill instructors who were employed before the new men were appointed. At Christmas or in the Easter vacation or at other times which may be arranged with the district inspectors, these men should hold refresher courses for schoolmasters in the district board service. At such times, moreover, when general refresher courses are held at train ing institutions, inspectors, principals and headmasters should see to it that physical training instructors have a considerable share in the work to be done.
9. It has been noticed already since the appointment of these physical training instructors that some headmasters are still inclined to rel~&te physical training to a minor position and to employ these men too much in the teaching of general subjects. It is hoped that inspectors will see that
1288 STARRED QUESTIONS AND A.N'SWERS.
llfA:~mr HYimo-ELECTmc Scru:1rn. *766. Sardar Ujjal Singh : Will the Honourable the Minister for
Agriculture please state- (a) the progress so far made in the 1fandi Hydro-Electric Scheme : (b) the probable dat.e when electricity will be made available for
industrial and lighting purposes and in what centres? The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : (o) The progress of the
Mandi Hydro-Electric Scheme to datf\ includes the design, purchase and . installation at site of 70 per cent. of the necessary constrnction plant mcluding one subsidiary hydro-electric plant for use in supplying electri city for operating all machinery on tho project, and the opening of the lines of communication from rail head to the Lhl Valley, and the erection of necessary buildings for housing the sta.ff and labom~ to be employed in con structing the headworks, tunnel, pipeline and generating station in Mandi State.
The surveys of the main transmission line from Jogindarnagar to Am· ritsar and Lahore and the branch lines to Ferozepore, Lyallpur and Ludhi .ana are all well advanced, and will be completed within 2 months.
(b} It is expected that electricity from the Mandi scheme will be available in Lahore, Amritsar, Ferozepore, Lyallpur and Ludhiana towards the end
·Qf 1930 or early in 1931 and at other centres along the connecting lines . between these places where the load offered is large enough to warrant the erection of the necessary sub-station.
SuGAR AND on rxncsrav. *765. Sardar Ujjal Singh : (a.) Will the Honourable the Minister for
Education please state whether any investigations were made with regard to the possibilities and scope of sugar and oil industry in the Punjab?
(b) Is it a fact that prospects of sugar industry were found to be very favourable in some parts of the province ?
(c) II so, what steps do the Government propose to take to encourage the establishment of sngar industry ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohu Lal : I 1'i>:rr0f. that the answer to this question is not yet ready. It will bA su1;p:ied to the honourable member when ready.
1284 PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOUNOIL, [23RD NoVR, 1927 • [Hon. Mr. Manohar Lsl.] -· this does not continue and that all concerned realise that the physical training instructors' first duties are physical training and physical recreation.
10. ~he Minister attaches great importance to the spread of interest in games and athletics among villagers and others not at school. It is hoped therefore that all district officials as well as the departmental staff will see how these instructors may best be helped in this part of their work.
11. It is believed that the new batch of men that have come up for training will prove even better than those who have just completed their course. The conditions on which thoy come for training have been im proved and the allowances which have been sanctioned are rather more than were promised last year. -
r·
BHAI LABH SINGH, LATE JcNIOR ENOLISII MASTER, GovERN MEN'l' HIGH SCHOOL, BAHADURGARH.
"'768. Sardar Narain Singh: (a) Will the Honourable the Minister fm, "Education please state whsthar any charge was brought against Bhai Labh Singh, late Junior English Master, Government, High School, Bahadurgsrh by the Education Department, and was he given a chance to explain the·· charge before bis dismissal ? If so, will he kindly lay on the table his ex, · planation ?
(b) If the answer to (a) above is in the negative, will the Honour able the Minister for Education please state why a Government servant of 18 yeara' length of approved service was not informed of his fault, and why was he not given a chance to explain the charge before his dismissal?
{c) Does the Government intend to reinstate him or grant him a pen :tion?
(Malaria).
(Malaria.). (Malarie).
(Malaria.). (Influenza).
1917 262·20 1918 242·58 1919 177·29 1920 182·8i 1921 195·78 ]922 161·85 1923 208·92 1924 209·57 1925 185·15 1926 208·58
INFANT MoRTJ.LITY. "'767. Sardar Ujjal Singh: Will the Honourable the Minister fo,
'.tooa.l Self-Government please atate- ( a) the rate of infant mortality in the Punjab since 1917; (b} the causes of the high rate of infant mortality in this pro
vince; (e) the steps proposed to be taken to reduce the rate of infant mor
tality? The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : (a) A statement show
ing the information required is laid on the table. (b) Amongst important causes are unskilled attendance during partuzi
·tion, unhygienic surroundings and lack of elementary knowledge of child welfare and the prevalence of certain diseases, such as malaria and dysentery, to which infants- are psculiary susceptible.
( c) 'l'he public health staff in both rural and urban areas is being rapidly expanded and special measures are being taken, in conjunction with local bodies and the Lady Chelmsford League, to promote child welfare.
Statement show·i-ng the rate of infant mortality in the Punjab, since 1917.
1281> STABRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
,,_ -~
Suits in wkich perHoils o~her
than members pf agricultural tribei were pla.intih
Suit& in which plaintiffs were members of agricultural
tribes,
Suits in which _ ~rsoru.i other
than members of agricultural tribes were plaintiffll.
VALUE OF S'CITS FOR !rIONEY. l N'UMBER OF liUITS FOR MONEY,
MONEY SUITS IN CIVIL COURTS.
*770. Diwan B•liadur Raja Narendta Nath: Will the Honourable Member for Finance be pleased to lay on the table a statement in the follow mg form showing the number of suits of money instituted in the Civil Courts of Lahore, Jnllundur and Ambala Divisions in the five months beginning. from the lst February 1925 and ending on the 30th of June 1925-
S~LUTING GOVERNMENT SERVANTS,
*769. Sardar Partap Singh : (i) Will the Honourable Member for Finance please state if it is a fact-
( a) that the Sub-Inspector of Police, Police Station Nur Mahal, District Jullundur, beat one Narinjan Singh, son of Dewan Singh; in viUa.ge Jandiala on the 6th June 1927, with his horse whip only because the latter did not salam him ;
(b) that the said Narinjan Singh made a representation to the Super intendent of Police, Jullundur, on the 18th June 1927, request ing _that departmental action may be taken against the Sub· Inspector?
(it) If the answer to the above be in the affirmative, will the Honourabl .. Member please stat~
(a) the action taken against the said Sub-Inspector; (b) whether it is legally binding on every villager to salute any Gov~
ernment servant ? (iii) If the answer to (b) above be in the affirmative, will he kindly
lay on the table a list of Government offices the holders of which are to b~ compulsorily saluted ? If the answer be in the negative, will Government kindly issue orders that the public should not be compelled to salute any officer against their will ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMont.morency : It is regretted that the reply to this question is not ready. The information asked for by the honourable member is being obtained and a reply will be sent to 1'Jm as soon as it is ready. ·
The Honourable Mr. Maaobar Lal: {a) and (b) Bhai Labh Singh ~as_ disl.ll_i_ssed, in _accor,da~~e wiph No. XIV ofthe Classification Rules, in eonsequenee of facts established at a judicial {rial.
(c) Government woul_d be prepared to consider application duly made for a compassionate allowance.
[28RD Nova, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1286
FAILURE OF CROPS IN THE SAUOHAR TAHSIL.
. *772. Shaikh Faiz Muhammad: (a) Will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased to state whether it has come to his notice that the continued failure of crops in the Saughar tahsil of Dora Ghazi Khan district has reduced the majority of the zamindars to a state of abject poverty?
(b) Is it a fact that the zamindars of this tahsil applied for remission. or at least reduction of laud revenue for the last two crops when the Deputy Commissioner of the district tom-eel through that tahsil in the end of last month and the beginning of this month ?
(c) If the answer to (b) is in the affirmative, has the Deputy Commis sioner forwarded such applications to the Government with or without any recommendation ?
(il) If the Deputy Commissioner has not so forwarded these applicat t ions, is Government prepared to call for them for consideration?
BHAKBA DAM SCHEME.
*771. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram : Will the Honourable· Member for Revenue kindly state-
(G) whether the services of an American expert have been secured in order to report on the feasibility of the Bhakra Dam Scheme; ..
(b) whether the expert has arrived ; (c) whether the expert is expected to submit his report within three·
months of his arrival ? The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Hueain . (a) and (b) The Ameri·
can Expert Mr. A. A. Wiley, Consulting Engineer to the Reclamation Service· cfo High Masonry Dams of the United States America landed at Bombay on November 11th. 'l'he Committee of which he is a member consists of two Geologists who have previously reported on the site and a senior officer· of the Irrigation Department of the Punjab who prepared the project.
(c) The report of the Committee will be submitted to Government before the end of January. ·
- Tise ff(>n~urable ·Sir Oeolfrey. deMonfmofency: In. ordsr to obtain the information desired by the honourable member, it will be neces sary to examine each individual record of a civil suit for money instituted during the period in question in the districts comprised in 8 Revenue Divi sions. Even so it is doubtful whether each record would show with accuracy which, if any, of the parties was a member of a statutory agricultural tribe •. I may remind the honourable member in this connection that the eommuni ties notified as agricultural tribes differ in each district and are notified by districts. The enquiry which would be necessary in order to furnish the· honourable member with the information he desires would, therefore, be of a ,·ei·y exhaustive nature, probably involving the employment of extra staff in each of the districts concerned. In view of thE· labour and expense of such all enquiry and the doubtful accuracy of the results to be expected, Government does not consider that an attempt to provide these statistics will be justified or serve any useful purpose.
Ht87. STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
··.:.·~··.
*775. Cancelled,.
THAL PROJECT.
*774. Sayad Mubarik Ali Shah: Will tho Honourable Member for Revenue please state->
(a) if any agreement as regards the Thal project has been reached between the Punjab and the Bombay Government ;
(b) whether there is any likelihood of getting this scheme in hand in the near future ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husaia : The reply to both parts of the question is in the negative.
*773. Shaikh Faiz Muhammad: Will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased to state-
(a) if he is aware of the fact that the economic condition of the zamindars of Dora Ghazi Khan district generally and of Saughar tahsil particularly is very precarious;
(b) if it is a fact that owing to the poverty of the zamindars, the lam bardars have to face an unusual difficulty in collecting and pay· ing the land revenue within the proscribed period;
(e) if it is a fact tba.t a. number of 1ambardars applied to the Deputy Commissioner that owing to the extreme poverty of the zamindars they were unable to realise the land revenue in time;
(d) whether Government will after proper enquiry state how many Iambardars sold or mortgaged their lands during the last two years;
(e) whether it is a fact that in majority of cases these sales or mort gages were ma.Io by the Iarnbanlars concerned to satisfy the land revenue demand of their ilaqa. ;
(f) how many lambanfars in Urn district had their panjotra. forfeited wholly or 1x,1LiJ.1Iy and how many oi thorn were fined during- the last two years for not remitting to the Government treasury in time the land revenue of their ilaqa ,
(g) the nnturs oi relief Government proposes to give to tho poor zamindars and lambarcfars in this district, ?
The Honoutable Mjan Sir Fazl-i-Husain : It is regretted that the reply to this question is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
RELIEF TO THE POOR ZAMINDARS AND LAMBARDARS.
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i•Husain: It is regretted that the reply to this question is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
[23RD Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1288
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (i) (a) and (b) Yes. (c) No. (d) The officer was sent to explain to the committee the irregularities
which had occurred in the procedure adopted by it in getting rid of the Seo· 1'etary.
(e) The proposal to take votes by ballot was rejected by a majority ·Of the members of the committee.
SECRETARY, CHrn10T l\fuNICIPAL Co1u11nTTEE.
*777. Lala Bodh Raj : (i) Will the Honourable the Minister fo~ Local Self-Government please state-
(a) whether it is a fact thaf tow .rds tho end of June or thereabout the Deputy Commissioner, ,Pung, made certain remarks in the inspection book of }Inuit,i .al Committee, Chiniot, 'complaining against tho honesty of its Secretary and his fitness to discharge his duties ;
(b) if it is a fact that u.t the time these remarks wore made the Ssc retary was on probation for about 16 months ;
(c) if it is a fact thttt foci committee on or about 14th September re solved not to confirm his appointment and refused to grant him any further extension of service ;
(d) if it is a fa.ct that the Deputy Commissioner by an express tsle gram challenged tho aetion of the committee referred to in (c) n .. bovs and sent tho offwer in ch:li'gH of the loaal bodies of the district 011 the spot who rornuiued there till he could persuade the members to granf extension to the said Secretary ;
(e) if it is a. faer thut u.;; i::10 titno W1J.(!:l Lhc cxte.rsion was granted 011 review as referred to in (d) a '.iove t,li,::, right of ballot demanded was not given to the members ; !1
(j) lho reasons why the Deputy Commissioner adopted the ·proce duro roiorred to in (d) and (c) above.
(ii) Will the honourable m~mlrn1· plo ise lay 0:1 G!J/1 t;11>lc tho remarks made by the Deputy Commissioner against the Secretary rn~errnd to in (a) above ?
Hrxnu REPRESENTATION IN THE Ann1Tro~AL PoLIOE, MuLU.N, *776. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable Member for Finance
please state- { a) the number of Hindus who have been recruited for the additional
police to be posted at Multan ; (b) if they belong to Multan proper or to outside stations ; (c) the total strength of the additional police ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The information asked for by the honourable member is not available in the office. A reply will be sent to him as soon as it is ready. ·
1289 STARRED QUESTJONS AND ANSWERS.
AI>POINTMlilN'i~ IN CHINIOT MuNICIPALin·.
*719. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government please state->
(a.) if it is a fact that on or about 26th September 19'27 the Deputy Commissioner, Jhang, drew the attention of the Municipal Committee, Chiniot, that certain appointments had been made - by the committee without reference to the District Inspector of Schools who alone was competent to make such appointmeuts and that payments made to such employees will be recovered from the members of the Committee who were party to resolutions for their appointmentq
An:t.uNISTRATlON on CuiNrch MuN1crPAL Cor;mITTEi. *778. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable the Minister for
Local Self-Government please state- (a) if it is a fact that the Deputy Commissioner, Jhallg, while
dealing with a letter from the District Inspector of Schools, Jha.ng, made the following remarks against the Municipal Committee, Chiniot, on or about 26th September 1927: '1%e Municipal Committee since the appointment of its new President had begun to undermine the whole administration. Really many things are done by the office-bearers of the committee other than the President ; '
(b) the facts showing how the municipal administration has been undermined since the appointment of the new President, and what things have been done by the office-bearers other than the President;
(e) which office-bearer is referred to in the remarks in part (a) above ; (d) whether it is a fact that the new President came into office on
26th August 1927 and that facts and things referred to in part (b) above happened before 26th August 1927.
The Honourable Malik Fit-oz Khan, Noon: (a) Yes ; but after -farther enquiry the Deputy Commisioner withdrew his remarks so far as they relate to the recently elected committee.
(b) Does not arise. {,) The Vice-President. (!]) Ye,i.
[ Hon. Malik Firoz Khan, Noon.] . (j) .As regards part (d) of the question the reasons fot the Deputy Com·
missioner's action have already been explained. .As regards part (e) of the question the Deputy Commissioner is not concerned.
(ii) A copy of the remarks recorded by the Deputy Commissioner in the inspection book of the Municipal Committee has been requisitioned and will be supplied to the honourable member on receipt.
[2SRD Nova. 1927. PUNJAB L!lGiSL'A.'llV~ COUNOIL.
tVol, IX:·B, pages 1763,64. 2pa.ge 1316 infra.
Ho~oRARY LIEUTENANT HAJI SHER BAHADUR KHAN.
*781. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable Member for Finance be pleased to state-
(a) if it is a fact that Honorary Lieutenant Haji Sher Bahadur Khan who was an honorary magistrate at Pind Dadan Khan has now been removed from the post of an honorary magistrate j
(b) if it is a fact that Government has also recommended to the mili tary authorities to remove his name from the rank of Lieute nantship;
(o) the charge against him?
Co111PLAlNTS AGAINST THE SUPERINTENDENT OF GREY 0.A.NALS.
*780. Lala Bodh Raj : (i) With reference to the answer to question! No. 3645, dated 23rd October 1926, will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state-
(a) if the enquiry has been made with respect to all the allegations made by an official of the Grey Canal or about some of them, and if only about some of them which of them;
(b) when the other charges would be ta.ken up ; (c) w hether it is a fact that the Grey Cana] accoun ts were audited in
1926; (d) when the complaint under reference reached the Government
and how long after that the enquiry was taken up ; (e) whether the complainant ever applied for permission to prove
his allegations and if so when and what the result was ? (ii) Will the Government be pleased further to lay a copy of the
-oomplaint as well as the audit note on the table ? The Honourable Mian Sir Feel-i .. Husain : (i) (a), (b), (o), (d) and
((;)) An investigation was held in connection with the audit in 1926oHhe Grey Canal Accounts withtho result noted in reply to Council Questions N~. 465 (unstarred).
(ii) Government is not prepared to lay a copy either of the complaint or the audit note on the table.
(b) the names of such employees as are referred to in (a) with the dates of resolutions of their appointments and their monthly pay;
(o) whether the amount paid to such employees has been recovered from the members party to the resolutions ;
(d) whether the members referred: to in (c) were the members oi the old committee or o_f the new one ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: A report has been called for and a reply will be communicated to the honourable member in due course.
1291 STARRED QUESTIONS AND A~SWERS,
EXEMPTION FROM SWORD LICENSES.
*783. Lala Joti Parshad: Will the Honourable the Finance Member please state-
(a) why Rohtak and Karnal districts have not been included in the districts which have been granted exemption in the matter of licenses for keeping swords ;
(b) whether in view of the keen demand from the public the Govern· ment would recommend to the Government of India that exemption may be extended to Rohtak and Kamal districts?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: The attention of the honourable member is invited to entry 3-A in Schedule II of the Indian Arms Rules. Swords possessed by certain responsible sections of tho population in Rohtak and Kamal are already exempt from the provisions of sections 13 and 15 of the Indian Arms Act. Government is not satisfied that a wider exemption can at present be granted in these districts without danger to the public peace.
DAMAGE !rO GINNING FACTORIES OF CHAUDHRI SHER SINGH, AND OTHERS BY RAIN WATER.
*782. Lala Joti Parshad : (i) Will the Honourable )Iinister for Local Self-Government please ata to whether it has come to the notice of Government-
(a) that in the rainv season outside the Hansi town in the Hissar district,. rain v water from tho town and other neighbouring villages flows into the ginning factories of Chaurlhri Sher Singh, Messrs. Manohar Lal-Dwarka Das, Messrs. Ram Bakhsh Indar Sain and others which does much harm everv vear to the buildings, etc., in spite of the efforts of the owners to stop it ;
(b) that this -witter stands there for months together and has proved injurious to the health of Hansi people ;
(c) that the attention of the District Board, Hissar, and Hansi Municipality, has been drawn to this repeatedly, but nothing has been done?
(ii) Does the Honourable Member proposes to take notice of the failure of these local bodies to attend to this matter ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : A 'report has been called for and a reply will be communicated to the honourable member in due course. '
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : (a) Yes. (b) Yes. (o) The reasons for his removal from his honorary magistracy were
(i) that he made a charge against a Government officer which on enquiry was established to be false and malicious, and
(ii) that he was immersed in local factions and intrigues and unlikely on that account to be an impartial magistrate.
[23Rn Nova, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COGNCIL. 1292
UNEMPLOYMENT CoMl\HTTEE,
*787. Lala Joti Parshad : Will the Chief Secretary please state what progress, if any, has been made by the Unemployment Committee so far and when its report is likely to be submitted to Government?
*786. Lala Joti Parshad : Will the Honourable the Finance Member please state---
( i) the total number of Sub-Inspectors, Head Constables and Con stables in the Police Department recruited in the Eastern Range during the last three years from amongst (a) Hindus, (b) Muslims, (c) Sikhs and others ;
(ii) whether it is a fact that during the last five years several educated Hindus from Hissar district belonging to non-agricultural classes applied for tho posts of Sub-Inspectors, Head Constables and noae of them was selected for these posts ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : A report has been called for and the result will be communicated to the honourable member in due course.
COMMUNAL REPRESENTATION IN THE POLICE STAFF OF THE EASTERN BA~OE.
CrncULAR PROHIBITDrG OR RESTRICTIKG GRANTrnG OF BAIL.
*785. Lala Joti Parshad: Will tho Honourable the Finance Member please state-
(a) whether anv circular has been issued bv tho Governor in Council to all ruagistratcs in tho province,' prohibiting or restricting the taking of Lail in non-bailable cases ; if so, will a copy of it be laid on the table ?
(b) whether tbe intention of that circular is that no bail as a rule should be granted in non-bailable offences ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency (a) No.
(b) Does not arise.
SEPARATION OF JUDICIAL FROM EXECUTIVE FUNCTIONS,
*784. Lala Joti Parshad: (a) Will the Honourable the Finance Member please state whether it is a fact that a circular letter has been addressed by the Government to all Deputy Commissioners taking away magisterial work from the Revenue Assistant and from some of the Treasury Officers ?
(b) Will a copy of the circular be laid on the fable ? (c) What other steps, if any, are proposed to be taken towards the
separation of judicial from executive functions? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : It is regretted
that the information required is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
1293" STARRED QUESTIONS A.ND ANSWE1\S,
lNDIGENOt:-S SYSTEMS OF MEDICINE.
*789. Lala Joti Parshad : Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government please state-
(a) whether it is a fact that aushdalayas and muiobe were opened by the District Board at Tisham and Ba.Isemand in the Hissar District and th~t the number of outdoor patients was very large;
(b) whether the District Board on the recommendation of Civil Sur geon had them replaced by hospitals under the Sub-Assistant Surgeons;
(c) whether it is a fact that the public of these and adjoining places · have been petitioning the District Board to have indigenous
systems of medicines ; (d) whether the number of outdoor patients has fallen down ; (e) whether it is a fact that the District Board built a dispensary at
a cost of about Rs. 8,000 at Kairu, 'I'ahsil Bhiwani, which did not attract any patient and the building is lying deserted ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : A report has been called for and the reply will be communicated to the honourable member in due course.
INDIGENOUS SYSTEMS OF MEDICINE.
*788. Lala Joti Parshad : Will the Honourable Minister for Local :Self-Government please state-
(a) whether it is a fact that Civil Surgeon, Hissar, in bis letter No. 8337, dated the 23rd August 1927, asked the District Board, Hissar, to replace all Vaids and Hakims by third or fourth grade compounders ;
(b) whether he proposed a resolution in the meeting 0£ the District Board held on LOth October 1927 to the same effect ; if so, will a copy of the letter and resolution be laid on the table;
(c) whether it is a fact that only those Vaids and Hakims who are qualified,-vide notification No. 27527, dated Hth December 1924,-are employed by the District Board ?
(d) whether Government intends to invite the attention of the Inspector-General of Hospitals and all the Civil Surgeons of the Punjab to the statement of views of the Punjab Govern ment, dated rnth July 1927, on the subject of the encourage ment of indigenous system of medicines ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : A report bas been -ealled for and the reply will be communicated to the honourable member in due course.
Mr. H. W. Emerson: The committee will meet early in January -to consider its draft report and the report, it is hoped, will be submitted -to-Government before the end of that month. ·
[28RD N OVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1294:
D
GRANT·IN·AID TO liISSAR MUNICIPAL COMMITTEE FOR WATER WORKS,
•791. Lala Joti Parshad : Will the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government please state-
(a) whether it has come to the notice of the Government that there is scarcity of drinking water in the Hissar town as almost all the wells except two or three contain brackish water;
(b) whether the Municipal Committee, Hisser, has been approaching the Government for the last ten years for a special grant-in. aid for water works ;
(c) whether it is a fact that Rohtak Municipal Committee has been given special grant for this purpose ;
(d) whether Government is prepared to favourably consider the claims of Hissar?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) No. (b) No. (c) Yes. (d) Any application made by the municipal committee will no doubt
be sympathetically considered by the Urban Sanitary Board.
• •
ELEC'l'lUFICATION OF E'.ISBA.R TOWN,
*790. Lala Joti Parshad: Will the Honourable the Revenue- Member please state-
(a) whether it is a fact that the President, Municipal Committee, Hissar, has been corresponding with the Director of Industries and the Electrical Engineer to the Government, Punjab, about the electrification of Hissar town since March 1!)21 ;
(b) whether it is a fact, that the Director of Industries and the Eleo trical Engineer visited Hissar on the 30th April 1921 and discussed the whole matter with the committee ;
(c) whether it is a fact that in this very connection other officers of the Electrical Engineering staff have been visiting Hissar till recently;
(d) whether it is a fact that the papers were submitted for administra tive approval over a year ago but nothing has been done in the matter so far ;
(e) whether it is a fact that general conditions of contract sent by the: Electrical Engineer were accepted by the committee in Sep tember 1926 and yet no progress has been made ;
(J) whether the Government proposes to grant early administrstlve approval and to direct the Electrical Engineering staff to expedite matters ?
The Honourable Miao Sir FazU .. Husain : It is a matter which certainly will be enquired into without any further delay.'
1295· , STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
.:.......-. ~·- ·- - - - -· --··
. TilRM OF OFFICE OF VIOE•PRESIDENTS OF M:UNICIPALITIES,
"'794.. Lala Bodh Raj : ·wm the Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state-
(a) if he is aware of a bye-law of Multan Municipal Committee which provides that the Vice-Presidents of the committee shall continue to act as such on the new committee after the general election if they are re-elected ;
(b) whether it is a 1act that this bye-law was framed before the pro· vision of_ oath.of allegiance beingtaken by the members was introduced into the rules of election ;
*793, Lala Bodh Raj : (a) Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Self#Government be pleased to state whether Government is aware that the Small Town Committees of Chsk Jhumra, 'I'andlianwala and of several other stations in the District of Lyallpur, as newly constituted in 1927, have not been able to exercise their right of electing a President, because the term of membership of.the -ex-officio Presidents of the previous committees did not cease along with the term of other members?
.. (b) If reply-to part (a) be in the affirmative, will the Honourable Minister be pleased to say whether it is intended to amend tb.e rules so as to restrict the ,t~lll of membership of ex-officio members along with the term of the Comm~~t~~?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) Yes. · (b) The matter is already under consideration .
SMALL TOWN COMMITTEES. RESTRICTION OF TERM OF ME1.1BERSHI.P OF ex·Ol!'F'ICIO MEMBERS OF
REVI\'AL OF DISTRICT SCHOOL TOURNAMENTS • . ·.· ...-:
*792, Lala Joti Parshad : Will the Honourable the Minister for "Education please state-
(a) whether it is a fa.ct that the divisional and district school tour naments in all divisions and districts in the Punjab have been given up ; ·
(b) whether Government is aware that games and sports are now generally neglected amongst the students ;
(c} whether it is intended to- revive at least the district school tourna . . ments ?
., The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Divisional tournaments have been abandoned, but district tournaments are still held in several districts.
; ,(b} No. · On the contrary Government is of opinion that the Boy Scouts, -1',:Play-for-aU " and similar movements have produced a wider diffusion -0f such activities than can be attained by tije tournament system.
(c) Does not arise.
• •
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. [231m Nova. 1927. 1296
D2
PREPONDEI.l.A .. NCE OF l\:IusLIMS IN THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT AT BHAKKAR.
*797. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable the Minister for Education please state if he has received any representation complaining against the preponderance of Muhammadan staff in the Education Department at Bhakkar ? If so, what action has been taken thereon by
-.the authorities ?
PREPONDERANCE OF :MUSLIMS ON THE STAFF OF BHAKKAR.
*796. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Chief Secretary please state if any representation has been made to him complaining against the preponderance of Muhammadan staff in the various departments of Govern ment at Bhakkar? If so, what action has been taken by the Government .thereon ?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: (i) Ye_s. (ii) Government does not propose to take any action, the excess of
Muhammadans over Hindus is not very marked and it does not seem to call for readjustment in a. tahsil which is predominently Muhammadan,
NEW CANAL FOR ·wEsTERN JHANG AND MuzAFFARGARH.
*795. Lala Bodh Raj: Will the Honourable Member for Revenue please state whether there is ~ proposal to have a new canal to irrigate the
.ilaqa of Western Jhang and Muzaffargarh ? The Honourable Mian Sir Fael-i-Husain i Parts of the Western
Jhang and Muzaffargarh districts come under the scope of the Haveli Project and when that project is carried into execution these areas will
.reeeive irrigation from this source.
(c) whether it is a fact that the rules provide that the members shall get the status as such and will be entitled to act es such after they have been sworn in;
(d) whether it is intended to have the bye-law referred to in (a) above so amended as to terminate the term of office of vice-pre sidents with the term of the committee ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) There is no bye- - 'law providing specifically that vice-presidents shall continue in office as such .after a. general election if they are re-elected as members, but there is a bye-law fixing the term of office of vice-presidents at two years. Whether in view of this, vice-presidents who are re-elected as members continue in office if their 2 years' term has not expired is a matter of opinion, and as Government's confirmation of this bye-law was not required, Government have no power to cancel the bye-law and the question would appear to be one which can only be settled by a court.
(b) and (c) The bye-law as to the term of office of vice-president was -made before the Punjab Municipal Act, 1911, was amended so as to require persons who are elected or appointed members of a committee to take or make
. an oath or affirmation of allegiance before they can take their sea.ts. (a) Government have no power to require the bye-law to be amended.
1297 STARRED QCESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
Contingencies including witness money Pay of officers . • ._
1,738 147
18,133
20,886- Total
Pay of establishment Travelling allowances
*799. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable Member for Finance please state the total amount spent on the Punjab Jail Enquiry Com mittee (establishment, travelling allowance, witness money and the salary. of the three members)?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: The expendi-: ture on the Punjab Jail Enquiry Committee, 1925, was as follows:-
Rs. 873
PUNJAB JAIL ENQUIRY COMMITTEE.
(iii) 60 per cent. in 1926. 25 per cent. in 1927.
16 Total
10 -6
(ii) Muslims Hindus
• • 287 Total
105 10
Muslims Sikhs
GQVEI\NMENT SCHOOL, BHAKKAR.
*798. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable the Minister for Edu- cation please lay on the table the figures for the Government School, .
. Bhakkar, showing- (i) the strength of students community-wise;
(ii) the strength of the staff community-wise; (iii) the percentage of results of the Matric and School Leaving.
Certificate Examinations of the Punjab University held in- 1926 and 1927 ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal:- (i) Hindus 172
Mr. Manohar Lal: No such representation has-
[28Rn Nova, 1927 e- PUNJAB LE(HSLATlVE COUNCIL • 1298 I· .,..~ The Honourable
been· Neivett
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CONFISCATION OF A naqqarah FROM KHILAFAT VOLUNTEERS.
*803. Dr. Shaikh Muhamnnd Alam: (a) Will the Honourable 'Member for Pinance be pleased to state- .
(i) whether it is true that the Lahore police confiscated a naqqarah (drum) from Khilafat volunteers in 1927;
(ii) the occasion on which the police confiscated the nnqqarcih; · ('iii) in whose custody it is now '}
(b) If the answer to part (i) is in the· affir.n 1fr:e, whether it his come · to t?e notice ~f Government that the confiscation of the naqqarah is -.C~usmg great discontentment amongst local Muslims ?
(c) Has the naqqarah been returned to its owners ? (a) H the answer to (c) is in the negative, whether ths Government
:inteuds to return the -said naqqarah ?
BHERA GOVERNMENT HIGH SCHOOL.
*802. Dr, Shaikh Muhammad Alam: Will the Honourable the . Minister for Education be pleased to stat~
(i) the total number of students in the Bhera Government High School;
(ii) the total number of Muhammadan students in the said school; (-iii) the total number of teachers in the-said school ; (iv) the total number of Muslim teachers in the said school ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (i) 450. (ii) 383. (i'.ii) 21. (iv) 18.
'.IJRAINDW OF GRADUATE:! FOR ASSISTANT SUPRRINTENDENT3HIP OP JAILS.
. *801. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable the Finance Member pleMe ,state the number of graduates on the list of the-Inspector-General of Prisons, 'Punjab, who have received the training for the post of Assistant Superinten- ~ooh? •
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : It is not oleu ·what list is referred to; but no graduates have received training as Assista.ut .. Superintendents of Jails as yet.
ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDBNTS OP JAIL.
*800. L~la Bt>ilh R!lj : Will the Honourable the Finance Member, -please state if it is a faot that Government is J!Ot prepared to entertain -graduatss for the post of Assistant Superintendents in the Jail Department? If so, why so '}
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : Government baa not prohibited the employment of graduates as Assistant Superintendents
· of Jails, but the whole scheme of reorganisation of .t,he subordinate staff . of the Jail department is being carefully examined and the claims of gredustes -will receive due consideration.
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
_i
I
RAW ALPIXDI CAXTONllfEKT BOARD.
*805. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleasedtc sta.te-
(i) the proportion of 1foslim and non-Muslim residents of Rawal pindi cantonment ;
(ii) the proportion of Muslim and non-Muslim voters in Rawalpindi eantonmont ;
(iii) the numb el' of elected members from the Muslemans on the. said board;
(iv) the number oi non-Muslim members on the said board ; (v) 'whether the system of election is one of joint or separate elec
torate ; (ti) whether the seats on the said board are fixed on communal
basis regardful of the proportion of voters ; (vii) whether. the Government proposes to fix the seats on communal
basis according to the separate electorate system ? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: · (i) According
to the Census of 1921 there are 19,469 Muslims and 26,422 non-Muslims, (ii) Muslims 8,235. Non-Muslims 4,784. (iii) Three. (iv) 'I'he number of non-Muslim elected members is four. (v) Joint •
. (vi) In Rawalpindi wards are arranged so as to include as far as possible an equal number of population and voters without regard for communal considerations.
(vii) No such proposals are under the consideration of Government.
I I
I I·
MUSLIM REPRESENTATION rn RAWALPINDI CANTO~MENT BOARD.
*804. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad · Alam : Will: · the Honourable the Fim:nce lhml:er be .pleased to: state- '
( i) whether ~ny representation on behalf of the Musalman resi- dents of Rawalpindi cantonment with reference· to allotment of seats in Rawalpindi cantonment board and the system of' election has been made to the Government ;
(ii) the result of that representation ; (iii) whether tho Government is prepared to lay on the table a copy:
of that representation with the orders passed thereon? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (i} No.
(ii) and (iii) i).) 11'.Jt aris».
The Honourable Sir Geoftfey deMontmorency : I regret tho answer to this question is not y~f :fea~y. · Ir y;iJl be communicated to the honourable member in due course. · ·
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNOIL. [23RD N OVR. 1927 •. 1800
·~···· • ~--·,-----
CoMPLAI:NT 0]' ILT,EOAL EXTORTION AGAIXSI Pocrcn OFFICERS.
*807. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam: WiH the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to f;tate-
(i) whether the Government has received any information as to forced labour taken from the Kami» section of tho population of Lahore District in 1927 ;
(i·i) the names of the officials and the department to which they belong who were blamed in this connection ;
{iii) whether the Government has received any complaints of illegal extortions of grass, fuel and such other things against officers of the police in Lahore district in the year 1927?.
. ' ,•
REPRESE:NTATION O'F BALMIK CHUHRAS.
*806. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam:· Will ·the Honourable the Finanae ·Member be pleased to state-e- ,
· (t) whether any representation was made to Government by the· · Conforence of Balmik Chuhras in 1927 ; ·
(ii) the nature of the representation ; (iii) whether the Government would be pleased to lay on the table
· a copy of the representation, if any? The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl .. i .. Husain: · (i) Yes. (~i) It deals with tho question of the abolition of beqo», (iii) A copy is placed on the table.
ABOLITIOK OF BEGAR.
Balmil. Conference's Resol-utwns. In a • .Confernnce held under the auspices of the Punjab Achhut Udhar
Manda] at Zafferko, a village in Lahore tahsil, representative Balmiks of over thirty villages have unanimously passed the following rosoiutions regarding the abolition of begar :-
1. \Vheroas tho Punjab Government has issued explicit instruction S· first during the Lieutenant Governorship of Sir Dennis Fitzpatrick and thall in 1921 prohibiting begar or forced labour and illegal extortions of anY kind by public servants on tour ;
And whereas thoro is a universal complaint that contrary to such instructions a largo section of the public servants, especially police and revenue officials, on tour in rural areas not only exact begar from the Kamin section of the population but also take grass, fuel and other things gratis and in case of refusal oppress them ;
This Conference representing Balmiks of ovor thirty villages of Lahore and Chunian tahsils strongly urges upon tho Government to institute an impartial non-official inquiry into the mal-practiccs arising out of begar and to take all necessary measures for its immediate abolition.
2. Resolved that the aforesaid resolution with thumb-impressions of representative Balmiks of tho villages participating in the Conforenco ba: sent. to His Excellency the Governor and its copies to the Homo Secretary, Members of the Punjab Logislasive Council and the Press.
(
I I
I
130f STARRED QUElrIONS AND ANSWERS,
'CoMPOUNDDl'G 01'' AN OCTROI CASE.
*810. Dr. Gopi Chand, Bhargava: Will the Honourable Finance Member be pleased to st11,te-
(a) whether the octroi case of a nominated member of the Lahore Cantonment Municipal Board has been compounded in utter disregard of section 6H of the Cantonments Act or not;
(b) the amount of compounded oetroi and the amount which he would have actually paid had this been not compounded;
(c) whether any objection was raised to this compounding in the committee meeting or not ; and if so, what it was and its fate ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : A report has been called for sud the result will be intimated to the honourable member
.in due course.
LEASE OF THE L.U-IORF. 0.ANTONMENT MUNICIPAL LAND BY A NOMINATE!) MEM:BER.
*809. Dr. Gopi Chand, Bhargava: Will the Honourable the :Finance Member be pleased to state whether it is a fact foat one of the nominated members of tho Lahore Cantonment Municipal Committee holds a lease of the Lahore Cantonment 11unicipal land for 10 years ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmo:rency : Government ha,: e no information but the Cantonment Board has been asked for a report. The information asked for bv the honourable member will be communicated in due course. •
BEG AR.
*808. Dr. Shaikh Muhammad Alam: Will the Honourable the Bevenus Member be pleased to state-
(i) whether the Government have received complaints that the system of forced labour is still prevalent in the province ;
· {ii) the officials and the Departments to which they belong who are mainly to blame ;
(iii) whether the Government is contemplating some practical steps to abolish begar ?
(ii;) the nature of the steps, if any?
The Honeurable Mian Sir Fezl-i-Husain . (i) Ye13.
(ii) Allegations have been made generally against tahaildars, thane· dars, saildars, sufaidposhes and lambardars.
· {iii) & (fo) He.)orttt have been called for from the Commissioners concerned.
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The information -asked for by the honourable member is not available in the office. Enquiries are being made and a reply to the qufstion will be sent as early as possible.
[28RD Novn.19'J7. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1802
*814. Dr. Gopi Chand, Bhargava: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state the number 0£ Hindus, Muhammadans
. and Sikhs, respectively, in the police force at the Lahore Cantonment ? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : 'I'he informa
tion asked for by the honourable member is being obtained and a reply will he sent to him as soon as it is ready.
COMMUNAL REI'RESENTATION rx POLICE Eoncn AcT, LAHORE CAN· TO NM ENT.
0Military population aggregating 9.880 has not been t aken into account in c-1loola • ting this percentage as these men live single in their units,
' IMPROVEMENT OF EDUCATIO)l IN LAHORE CANTONMENT ••
*813. Dr. Gopi Chand, Bhargava s Will the Honourable 'Minister for Edu :ation be pleased to state whether 1~~1y steps have been taken to improve the education in Lahore Cantonment, after the form·
. ation of the Cantonment Board ? The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The information is being
collected and will be supplied to the honourable member when ready.
STANDARD. E~ROTi!l!ENT. Percentage Tota.I --,- population, of pupils at I Civil. school to
High. Middle. Primary. High. Middle. Primary. total population.
-- --- --- -- ----- Schools for 1 .. 4 538 .. 284 } boys. 14,606 06.73
Schools for .. .. 2 .. ! .. 161 Girls.
SCHOOLS IN LAHORE CANTONMENT.
*812. Dr._ Gopi Chand, Bhargava: Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased to state the number of primary schools, middle schools and high schools both for boys and girls, respec tively, in Lahore Cantonment, the number of students in them and the percentage of students compared with the population of Lahore Can
-tonment ? The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: A statement giving the
required informationis laid on the table.
Statement showing the number, etc., of schools in the Lahore Cantonment.
EXPENSES ON EDUCATION IN LAHORE CAN'.l'ONMENT,
*811. Dr. Gopi Chand, Bhargava: Will the Honourable the 'Minister for Education be pleased to state the proportion of expenses on Education in I:lahore Cantonment to the income of the Lahore Cantonment Committee 'l ·
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : The information is being collected and will be supplied to the honourable member when ready.
1808 STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
ASSISTANT SURGEONS IN MA YO HOSPITAL.
*819. Dr. Gopi Chand, Bhargava : Will the Honourable the Minister· for Local Self-Government be pleased to state the names of the Assistant Surgeons in charge of wards in the :\byo Hospital where casualty patients were kept during the last Lr,hore riots of May 1927 and the periods they held the charge ?
LALA RAM SARAN DAS OF KAPURTHALA.
*818. Dr. Gopi Chand, Bhargava : Will the Honour» ble the Finance :Membel' be pleesed to lay on the table the correspondence between the Punjab Government and tho Ka purthr.ln St:,te re: the release of Lala Barn Saran Das who wcs convicted in the Punjab by the Defence of India. Tribunal and on release from the Punjab was arrested by the Kapurthala authorities ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: Government are not prepared to lay on the table the correspondence relating to the release of this prisoner, concerning whose alleged arrest by th'e Kapurthala authorities they have no information.
LI.PE IMPlUSONMENT OR TRANSPOR'I'.\TION FOR LIFE.
*817. Dr. Gopi Chand, Bhargava: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state the circumstances in which a sentence of life imprisonment oz trr.nsportr.tion for life is counted as imprisonment for 14 years ? ·
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: The attention of the honourable member is invited to paragraph 516B(1) of the Punjab Jail Manual.
PRISONERS COKVICTED BY THE DEI•'ENCE OF INDIA TRIBUNAL.
*816. Dr. Gopi Chand, Bharga'V'a: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state -
(a) the names of those political prisoners who were convicted in 1914 with Lala Ram Samu DM of Kcpurthals by the Defence of India 'l'ribunal ;
(b) the term of imprisonment they were sentenced t.o; (c) when they are going to be released ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The informa tion asked for by the honourable member is being obtained and will be· communicated to him in due course.
IMPROVEMENT 01!' WATER-SUPPLY IN LAHORE CANTONMEN'l',
*815. Dr. Gopi Chand, Bbargava: Will 'the Honourable Finanea Member 'be pleased to state whether there is any proposal to improve the C6tldition of the. water supply in the civil population of the Lahore Can, tonment?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : A report has been called· for from the cantonment board. The information asked for by the honourable member will be communicated in due course. · · -
[23RD N OVR, 1927 ~ PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1804
0-RAKT 01' CROWN LANDS TO 1·LOOD AFFECTED VILLAGERS.
438. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state-
(a.) the names of those vi11agers in the Hoshiarpnr and Ludhiana districts whose lands have been totally washed , away by flood ;
(b) whether the Government has given grant of crown lauds to the zamindars of such villages ? If not, will the Government be pleased to state whether they now contemplate giving any grant of crown lands to the zamindars of such villages ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Faal-i-Husaia s The question has neee s sitated enquiries which are not yet complete. An answer will be sent to the· honourable member, when it is ready.
U~STARRED Q-CESTIONS AND ANSWBRS.
SuB-DrHSIONAL OFFICE~, KHANEWAL.
*820. Dr. Gopi Chand, Bhargava : Will the Chief Secretary please str1te (f'{) if it is ", fo;t t hst the Sab-Divisio-rvl Officer, Khanewal, has been r,t the station for more tlmn 3 years? If so, the reasons for his over-staying beyond three years ;
(b) whether it is :, LJt 'th ~t he fa a Mubc.n.nvden and the 'I'chsildar and the Naib-I'ahsildar, Khanewal, are also Muhcmmodena :
(e) for how long more it is intende.I to keep the present Sub-Divisional Officer at Khanewal ?
Mr. H. W. Emerson; (a) Yes. The officer in question was up to 1926, also Assistant Colonization Officer under the orders of the Deputy Commis sioner, }Iontgomery. In 1926 the colony work of the Khanewal Tahsil was transferred from the Deputy Commissioner, Montgomery, to the Deputy Commissioner, Multan. and since it was necessary that the Sub-Divisional Officer at Khanewal should have experience of Colony work, the officer in question was retained as Sub-Divisional Officer.
(b) Yes. (c) So long as it is in the interest of the public service to retain him.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : The names of the· Assistant Surgeons in charge of warM ht · the Mayo Hospital, Lahore, where casualty patients were kept during too. Lahore, riots of ·111:ay, 1927, and the periods during which each held charge are:-
(1) Dr. N, B. Mukerjee, J\LB., B.S., from 4th to 15th May 1927. (2) Dr. Shujjat Ali; 1\:1.B., B.S., from 16th· May to 23rd June 1927.
A few cases were also treated by- (1) Dr. Gurdas Ram Charnalia, M.B., B.S. (2) Dr. Sant Ram Dhall, l\LB., B.S. (S) Dr. Amir-ud-Din, }LB., B.S.
( 4) Dr. Prithi Raj Puri, :VI.B., B.S.
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
----- --- --- -- ...
MUNICIPA1, COMMITTEE, KARTARPUR.
441. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Minister for .Loeal Self-Government be pleased to state-
(a) the population of- (i) Hindus, and
(ii) Muhammadans in Kartarpur Municipality, district Jullundur;
(b) the number of Hindu and Muhammadan members respectively, o.f the municipal committee showing the elected and nominated members separately ?
276 226 699
(ii) First Class Certificates of Service (iii) Second Class Certificates of Competency (iv) Second Class Certificates of Service
(c) Ni1.
SCARCITY OF MECHANICAL ENGINEERS •.
440. Cha',Jdhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state-
(a) the respective number of mills and factories requiring first and second class engineers in accordance with the Punjab Boilers Rules;
(b) the number of first and second class certificates regarding both service and competency issued by the Board of Examining Engineers since 1906 ;
(c) the number 0£ complaints received by Government from the factory owners (with names and addresses) about scarcity of mechanical engineers ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Faz.l-.i-HuHin: (a) 42 mills and fa<, ·tories in the Punjab require First Class Engineers and· 225 factories require Second Class Engineers.
(b) (i) First Class Certificates of Competency 87
TAHSILDAR OF SJIEIKHUl'URA.
. 439. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Revenue Mam .. :ber be pleased to state-
( a) since how long the tahsildar of Sheikbupura has been posted in that tahsil ;
(b) if it is a fact that the same tahsildar has been in the district for many years as Head Vernacular Clerk of the Deputy Commissioner's office 'l
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: (a) M. Jalsl-ud-Dln ;has been Tahsildar, Sheikhupura, from 4th January 1926, and has now been ·transferred.
(b) Be was previously Head Vernacular Clerk at Sheikhupura for :S years.
[28BD N OVR. 1927• PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1806
r--- -····· -----,..--.---- -- . ••,7 -····-· ·- , •.. ' •••. , ••• • •• • •
!·
BOARD OF ExAMINI~G ENctINEERS (DEPARTMENT OF Ixnusrmas). 443. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Revenue·
Member please state- (a) whether any Muhammadan secured a seat on the Board of
Examining Engineers (Department of Industries) since its start, i.e., 1906;
(b) whether it is a fact that members of the Board have never changed which should have been done after every three years?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fezl-i .. Husain: (a) No, so far as information is available in the Secretariat records. As ex-officio appoint· ments are made from time to time, it is not easily ascertainable whether any <>f them was ever held by a Muhammadan. -- (b) The rules do not require that members should be changed every three years. Vacancies occurring on the Board have been filled from time to time.
Nil. 1
.1 ...
2,852 1,417
5
in the Khanna Municipal Committee, District Ludhiana;
(b) the number of Hindu and Muhammadan members, respectively, of the committee showing the elected and nominated members. separately ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : (a) (i) Hindus
(ii") Muslims (b) (1) Hindus, elected .•
Appointed (2) Muslims, elected
Appointed
MuNIC'IPAL CoMllIITTEE, KHANNA.
442. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Minister for· Local Self-Government be pleased to state-
(a} the population of- (i) Hindus, and
( ii) Muhammadans
(b) Elected. 5 2
Non-Muslim Muslims
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : (a) (i) Non-Mus1irns 5,180
Muslims 8,332 Appointed. I
1807' UNBTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
------------ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
JVo1. VIII.B, page 1142. tpa.ge 1307 ante.
. .
· · 'the Honourable Mian Sir Fa:d-i .. ffusain : In reply to the first- part of ·the question the honourable member is referred to the answer given to Council 2question 448 .
. The answer to the second part is in the negative.
446. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable Member for ·Revenue be pleased to state if it is a fact that there has never been and is not now a single Muhammadan on the- Board of Examining Engineers'} If so, whether the Government is considering the desirability of appointing Muhammadan members. on the Board ?:
.. ..., :. ~ .. · l\!USLIM REPRESENTATION ON __ TH_E BOARD OF EXAMDHNG ENGINEERS •
Nil. Muhammadans (b) No.
Musr.rx Bo1LER lNsPEC'l:ORs.
445. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Member for ·no-venue be pleased to state-
(a) the number of Muslim Boiler Inspectors as compared with Boiler Inspectors of other communities ;
(b) whether the Government is considering the desirability of increas ing the number of Boiler Inspectors ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fa:d-i-Husain : (a) The number of "Boiler Inspectors is-
Hindus 2 ~~ 2
. . REMOVAL Oli' THE Bon.ER INSPECTOR }'ROM THE MEMBERSHII' OF
THE BoARD or EXAJ\UNING ENGtNE_J,JRS.
444. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state-
(a) if he is aware of the fact tha.t in no other province in India a Boiler Inspector is taken as member on the Board of Examining Engineers ? If so, will the Government be pleased to state what special reasons led the Government to appoint the Boiler Inspector as a member on this Board;
{b) whether the Government is considering the desirability or remov ing the Boiler Inspector from the membership of the Board '}
The Honourable Mian Sir Fa:zl .. i-Husain : (a) Government has no information as to the first part of the question. The second part does not therefore arise.
(b) No. The honourable member is referred to the reply given to a -similar iquestion No. 1911 in 1925.
[23RD N OVR. 1927 • PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. -racs
-·i·,11• ~- ·-- .. , ... :
MUSLIM SUPERINTENDENTS AND HEAD VERNACULAR CtElU{S OF THE DEPUTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICES.
449. Chaudbri Afzal Haq·: Will the Honourable the Revenue Mem her be pleased to state the number of Superintendents and Head Vernacular Clerks of the Deputy Commissioners' offices in the province with their quali-
• fieations, and the number of Muhammadans amongst them ?
BOARD OF EXAMINING ENGINEERS.
448. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable Member for Beve .nue be pleased to state whether the Board of Examining Engineers is con temp1ating to issue first class and second class certificates without holding
.any examination ? 1£ so, why ? , The Honourable Mian Sir FazJ-i-Husain: The honourable mem
her is referred to the answer given to a similar question by Dr. Sir Mohammad Iqbal.
(ii) Third Class Engineers which were previous ly known as First Class Driven 1,501 out of 2,805 Ditto.
(iii) Second Class Engineers- (a) Service . . 9,32 out of 699 Ditto. (b) Competency . . 27 out of 226 Ditto.
(i·v) First Class Engineers- (a) Service 56 out of 276 Ditto. (b) Competency 6 out of 87 Ditto,
The figures given above show that Muslims have received 46 per cent. -0£ the certificate granted by the Board.
MusuM ENGI?<EE.RS ANO THE BoARD o~· .ExAMDHNG ENGINEERS,
447. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased to state-
(a) whether it is a fact that before the constitution of the Board of Examining Engineers Muslims held as many as 90 per cent. of the Engineer's posts ?
(b) whether it is a fact that since the constitution of the Board up till now the number of Muhammadan Engineers has been reduced to 30 per cent. ? H so, will the Honourable Member be pleased to state the causes for that reduction ?
/ The Honourable Mian Sir Faal-i .. Husain: (a) Information is not .available.
(b) The number of certificates granted to .Muslims since the constitu ·tion of the Board of Examining Engineers, Punjab, is given below :·-
(i) Second Class Drivers .. 6SS out of 1,202 (ni.z., the total number of Certificates grant· ed by the Board).
1309 T.:NSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
•
SUPERINTENDENT oF THE DEPUTY Coxxrseroxsa's OFFICE, KANGRA.
450. · Chaodhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Revenue l{ember be pleased to state-:..
(a) if it is a fact that a j~nior local man has been promoted to the post of the Superintendent of the Deputy Commissioner's office at Kangra while the applications of those Mubammadans who wero senior and better qualified have been altogether ignored;
(b) if Government is aware of the fact that there is a great paucity · of Musalman Superintendents and Head Vernacular Clerks ·
ir. ·the province; (c) the reasons why the claims of Musalmans were ignored when the·
post fell vacant ? . The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl·i-Husain: (a) 'l'he answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. 'Ihere was no senior or better qualified local Muhammadan candidates available for the post.
(b) No. . (c) Does not arise.
:MUSLIM HEADMASTER FOR KA.SUR HIGH SCHOOL.
451'~ Chaudhri Afzal Haq: (a) Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased to state-
(i} if it is a fact that since the establishment of Kasur High School. no Muslim headmaster has ever been posted there ;
(ii) if it is a fact that 75 per cent. of the population of Kasur is · Muhammadan ;
(iii) if it is a fact, that Gov~rnmeut in answer. to ~ questio~ of Msulvi Mazhar Ah, Azhar, m the second Legislative Council promised. to post a Muslim headmaster when the present headmaster will be transferred;
(iv) if it is a fact that the headmaster (Lala Dewan Chand) has been transterred ;
(v) whether it is proposed to post a Muslim headmaster for- the Kasur High School?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (i) Government has no inform aticn prior to 19~1 ~s ~he school w3:s then under the local body. In 1921 the school was provincialised and L. Diwan Chand, who was then headmaster; continued to hold the post.
(ii) The :Muslim population of Kasur !s about 72 per cent. (iii) Government made no such promise. (iv) Yes. .. . . . · . . (v) Mufti A~du_l :MaJ1d~ Vies-Principal m the sch_ool, has bee? appointed.
to officiate as Principal durmg the absence and subject to the hen of Lala. · Diwan Chand, who is officiating as District Inspector.
The· HonourableMian Sir-Fazl-i·H·u•ain: Enquiries have been made and the result will be communicated to the honourable member in .due course.
[23RD NoVR. 1927.- PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1510
·PosTING OF MusuM CANAL OFFICERS FOR DrPALPUR D1v1s10N.
455. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Revenue :Member be pleased to state-
(a) if it is a fact that in the Dipalpur Canal Division almost all ehe members of the staff from the Superintending Engineer down to an ordinary orderly are non-Muslims;
·GRANT-IN·AID TO SAMBRIAL ISLA~UA A.-V. MIDDLE Boaoor, (SrALKOT).
454. Cbaudhri -Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased to state- ·
(a) if it is a fact that Sambrial Islamia Anglo-Vernacula:r Middle School (Sialkot) was refused grant-in-aid last year;
(b) on what principle the grant-in-aid of this most flourishing school has been stopped ;
(c) whether that principle is applied throughout the province ? 'The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Yes. {b) No grant was stopped, as the school was not on the grant-in-aid list (c) Does not arise. · · •
·BARTO RA.WAL COMMUNITY ENTERING GOVERNMENT SEBVIOE,
453. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : (a) Will the Honourable the Finanee . -.Member be pleased to state-
(i) if it is a fact that a constable named Ghulam Nsbi, resident of Gardiwala, district Hoshiarpur, was enlisted in the police force;
(ii) if it is a fact that he was dismissed from the force in the month of February or March 1926 on the ground that he belonged to the Rawal caste ;
(iii) if it is a fact that Central Rawal Board protested against this ordor oi dismissal ?
(b) if so, will the Honourable Member be pleased to state whether .Rawal community is debarred from entering Government service ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (i) No. (ii) Does not arise.
(iii) Does not arise. (iv) Does not arise.
COMMUNAL REPRESllNTATION IN THE OFFICES OF SuPERINTENrint<J ENGINEERS,
452. Chaudhri Ahal Haq : . Will the Honourable the Revenue .Member be pleased to state the number of head clerks, accountants and
.head draftsmen communitywise in the offices of Superintending En• gineers ?
The Honourable Miao Sir Fazl .. j .. ffusain : The honourable member jg referred to the Annual Statement placed on the table.
U:SSTARREI> QUJilSTlciNS' ANJ:t J.NSWlllt.'S.
12 4 • 22
Other Non Muslim~. Sikhs. Muslims.
Lower Chenab East
12 3
6
7 Lower Chens b w e ~t
How REORUITMENT WAS MADE ACCORDING TO VARIOUS COM:llUNITIES. Xo, of vaca.ncies
that fell vacant since I!l2:! in the Clerical
}:sta bli.shment.
Kame of Uircle.
22
VACANCIES IN THE CLERICAL EsTA .. BLISHMENT OF THE LOWER • CHEKAB CANAL,
457. Rana Firoz-ud .. Diu Khan: Will the Honourable tho Revenue Member please state the number of vacancies that fe11 vacant since 1922 in tho clerical establishment in the Lower Ohenab Cannl, East and 'West circles, Lyallpur, and also the appointments made according to various eommunities ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-] ... Husain: The required informa tion is as follows :--
COMMUNAL REPRESENTATION IN THE CLERICAL ESTABLISHMENT OF LOWER CHENAB CANAL.
456. Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan : Will the Honourable the Revenue· Member please lay on the table a separate list of clerical establishments. in the Lower Chenab Canal, East and West Circles, Lyallpur, showing the appointments held by members of various communities ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl ... i ... Husain : The honourable member is referred to the annual statement placed on the table.
The unit for clerical establishments in the Irrigation Branch is for the province as a whole and separate lists by smaller sub-divisions of this unit are not available nor can communal questions be watched and postings, regulated on other than a provincial basis.
(Chaudhri Afzal Haq.] (b) whether it is a fact that in July last, Muhammadan zamindars
of that division invited the attention of the Government to the paucity of the Musalmans in the canal department of this division; ·
(c) whether Government is considering the question of posting some· _ _ _ _ of the Muslim canal officers in Dipalpur Division ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i .. Husain: There are two Dipalpus Canal Divisions, an" Upper " and a. " Lower ", If the honourable member will intimate for which of these he requires the information stated in the question, it will be supplied to him.
[23RD N OVR. 1927 ... PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE .COUN.CIL. 1Sl2
- Transfer carried
out.
On account of clerk's wife be.,_ ing sick.
Transfer held in abeyance for I! month.a.
Ditto.
Ditto.
Ditto.
Adbul Qadir (1), acting Divi sional 2nd Clerk, to Abbassia D,ivision, 2nd Bahawalpur Cir cle, Sutlej Valley Project.
S. Abdul Karim (3}, Divisional 2nd Clerk, Hafiza bad Division, to Gujranwala Division,
dated ~.266l·E-I., 26.8,1927.
dated Telegram, 16-8·1927.
02117,E-I., dated One Assistant Clerk to 3rd Baha- S.8-1927. walpur Circle, Sutlej Valley
Project.
01976-E.J., dated H. Dayal Singh (l), posted to 2·8-1927. JhangDivisionas acting Di\•j.
sional Head Clerk.
01970-E-I., dated B. Teja Singh (l), Divisional 2-8·1927. Head Clerk, Jhang Division, to
Derajat Circle,
1402-E-I.. dated Chandar Bhan, Probationer 5-2·1927; Clerk, to 1st Bahawalpur Cir·
ele, Sutlej Valley Project, aa acting Divisional Head Clerk.
871-E-I., dated One permanent Assistant Clerk Transfer carried 22,1,1927, to fat Bahawalpur Circle, Sut- out.
lej Valley Project.
Whether transfer was carried out or cancelled.
Reasons for
cancellation.
Ditto.
Particulars of transfer ordered. No. and date of letter ordering the transfer.
TRANSFERS IN :rHE CLERICAL ESTABLISHMENT IN THE LOWER CHENAB "\VEST Craor,a.
459. Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan: Will the Honourable the Revenue M(mber plecss fay on th fo ble 11 statement showing transfers ordered in the clerical esta blishment in the lower Chenab West Circle, Lyallpur, since January 1927, and the transfer orders subsequently cancelled, together with reasons for such cancellation ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-I-Hu 11ain : A statement giving the required information is placed on the table.
STATEJiIENT SHOWING TRANSFERS O RDE PED RY 'IRE (B1E1' EliGINEER IN THE CLERICAL ESTA.BLISHMKKT OF THE LOWER CEE:KAB WEST CIRCLE, 81NCE
J.A..~UARY 1927, AND THE TRANSFER ORDERS 8DBSEQUE1\TLY CANCELLED TOGl<JTHEH wrrn REASONS FOR OA...'WELLATION.
TRANSFER OF NON-GAZETTED OFFICERS IN THE IRRIGATION DEPARTMENT,
458. Rana Firoz.-ud-Din Khan : Will the Honourable the Revenue Member please state if there r,re r..ny rules to guide the transfer of non gazetted officers in the Irrigation Department? If so, will he please lay them on the table ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i .. Husain: There are no hard-and fast rules governing the transfers of non-gazetted officers in the Irrigation Branch. Such tmnsfers are made when vacancies occur for different re~soruJ or when it is considered to be in the interests of the public service.
HUS UNSTARRED QUESTIONS A.ND- ANSWERS.
REPORTER ON Booxs, 462. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable Minister for
:;Education be pleased to state- (a) whether it is a fact that the present Reporter on Books is to
retire shortly ; (b) whether it is a fact that since this post was created Hindus have
been appointed one . after another as Reporters on Books with the exception. of late Khalifa Imad-ud-Din who for a short time held this post ; '
(c) whether the Government proposes to appoint a. suitable Muham madan to this post ?
0oMl\fU)!AL REPRESENTATION IN THE CLERICAL STAFF OF THE ']ExT-Boox COMMITTEE.
461. Chaudhri Afzal Haq r '\Vill the Honourable the l\finister '1or Education be pleased to state if there is a.ny Muhammadan on the clerical ,staff of the Punjab Text-Book Committee ? If not, does the Government propose to appoint Muhammadan clerks also when opportunity arises?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Neither of the two clerks, who have been in service for a large number of years, employed by the Com·
:mittee is a. Muhammadan. (b) 'JJhe appointment is not made by Government.
(b) The number of members of the various communities was given in answer to Councill question No. 262. There is no proposal at present before Government to a.ltet these numbers in any way, but as some changes have occurred in recent years, I will have the matter examined.
These appointments . ment.
Editors
European. Hindu. Hindu. Sikh.
. . { One Sikh.
One Muslim. are made by the Committee and not by Govern,
Secretary Hood Clerk Typist Librarian ..
CoMJttTNA.L :Bl1ltRIHlllNTATION JN TllB TEX!l'·Boox CoMMITTEE SuF:r. 460. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Minister
:iot Education be pleased be state- (a) the number of Muhammadans in the Text-Book Committee
staff as compared with the non-Muslim element ; (b) whether the Government is considering the advisability of increas
ing the number of Muslims on the committee ? The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) The present staff of the
'Text-Book Committee is as below :- ·
[28nn Novn.1927. PUNJAB LBGI8LA.TIVE OOUNCIL, J814
REPRESEKTATIO~ OF VARIOUS C~Dt:UNITIES IN SERVICES.
4$4. Chaµdhri Afzal Haq: (i) "Will the Honourebls the Pinance Member be pleased to state=-
(a) whether it is a fact that since Mr. Cocks hes taken over the charge of the police force as Inspector-General it has been the practice of the Government to make up the deficiency of Hindus amongst. Deputy Superintendents of Police;
(b) whether it is r, fact that in pursuance of this practice several Hindu police officers have superseded Muhammadan officers ;
(c) whether it is the intention of the Government to pursue the same practice in other Government departments where any com· munity is not fully represented?
(ii) 'Nill the Honoura ble Member be pleased to by on the tr.. ble the order; if any, to the heeds of departments that no further promotions be given to the members of a community which is already fully represented until the deficiency of other communities is made up, as is being done in the police orce ?
SELECTION GRADE POSTS IN THE PROVINCIAL EDUCATlON SERVICE.
463. Chaudhrl Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable Minister fo~ iducation be pleased to state--
(a) whether it is a fact that the number of posts in the selection grade are 10 per cent. of the total number of posts in the Provincial Education Service;
(b) whether it is a fact that the total number of posts in the service at present is l 07 ;
(c) whether the number of posts in the selection grade which have been already filled up is equal to 8 per cent. of the total number of posts in the Provincial Education Service;
(d) whether the Government proposes to consider the claims of the community which is at present less represented while making future appointments to the selection grade of the Provincial Education Service?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) The number of posts in the selection grade is limited to lO per cent. of the total.·
(b) The total number is at present 108. (c) The existing number of selection grade posts is approximately
8 per cent. of the total. (d) Promotion to selection grade posts is not determined by communal
considerations.
T)Je l!oQ.our-,.ble Mr. Manobar Lal: (a) 'lfue late Reporter on Books retired some time a.go. · ·
(b) ~o. (c) The appointment has already been made; the appointment is not.
made by reference to communal consideration.
tS15 UNST.A.UBD QUESTIOJll'li! All:0 •NSWEl\S.
~ Vol. IX-B, pages 1763-61..
466. Lala Mohan Lal : Will the Honourable Revenue Member be pleased to say if the accounts of the Grey Canal Department were audited during 1926 ? If so, will he kindly lay a copy of the audit note on the table':
The Honourable Main Sir Fael-i-Hasaie s Yes, an audit was made. For the result of that audit, the honourable member is referred to the answer to Counci11 question No. 465 (above). Government is not; prepared to lay the audit note on the table.
Atrnrr' or- THE Aocouxrs OF THE GREY CANAL DEPARTMEKT.
COMPLAINT AGAINST THE SUPERINTENDENT OF THE GREY CA~ALS.
465. Lala Mohan Lal : Will the Honourable Revenue }Iember be _pleased to state-
( a) if the enquiry promised in reply to 1 question No. 3645, dated 23rd October 1926, has been made; if so, with what result ;
(b) whether it is a fact that the complainant was called upon to substantiate his allegations, anri that the person complained against was also called upon to disprove the charges ;
(c) whether if the allegations were found to be incorrect and false, any action was taken against the complainant and ii they were found to be true, any action was taken against the person complained against ; ·
(d) the action taken in either case?
The Honourable Mian Slr Fezl-i-Husain e Yes. '.IThe Superin- tendent was served with 6 months' notice and the Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner were empowered to take such action as they considered neces ssry in regard to certain subordinates.
(c) The intention of Govemment is to pursue the policy explained by the Honourable Member for Finance on the 19th July 1927.
(ii) No orders have been issued to this effect ..
(b) No.
The Honourable Sit Geoffrey deMontmorency: (i) (a) 'l!ha policy of Government in regard to recruitment, including recruitment to the police service, was Iully explained in a speech of the Honourable Member :for Finance made in this House on the 19th July, 1927. Recruitment made to the various ranks of the police has been proceeding under this general policy of Government during the period to which the honourable member alludes.
[23RD ~OVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1816
UPPER SoHAG INUNDA'rION CANAL.
467. Baba Kartar Singh, Bedi: Will the Honourable the Revenue .Member kindly state--
(a) the date on which the Upper Sohag Inundation Canal began to flow this year and the amount of water supply made available therein;
(b) whether the original Head continued to supply water or a new Reserve Head had to be opened on the failure of the original one;
{c} if a new Head was opened- (i) the -date on which it was opened ;
(ii) the period for which it continued to work; (iii) the amount of ·water supplied by it and the division of the same (iv) the period for which water was supplied at the tail of the said
canal; (a') if it is a fact tlrnt water was supplied to the tail of the Upper
Bohsg Canal from the Dipalpur Canal ? If so, for how many days this supply was made available and whether this supply was headed up at any time during these days;
(e) the necessary amount of water supply below regulator Bahawal Das which will make the w!'ter available at the tail;
(]) whether it is a Iaot that owing to _the failure of the Head of the Upper Sohag Canal, the crops nt the tail of the said canal dried up? If so, whether the Government proposes to remit the land revenue and water rate recoverable from the zamindars on the said canal generally and from tho zamindars on the tail particularly?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-d .. Husain: (a) On 12th June 1927, but on account of a drop in the river supply it dried up after 4 days. -It began to flow again on Ist July 1927 and continued to run up to 15th August 1927. During these 45 days, average daily discharge was 1,017 cusecs,
(b) The Reserve Head was opened as soon as conditions for its opening were favourable after 15th August 1927, when the canal ceased to get supplied from the working Head.
(c) (i) On 21st August 1927. (ii) 42 days. · (iii) It supplied on average discharge of 538 cusses, which were utilized
in the canal and its distributarios.
(iv) 19 days.
(d) Yes, for 23 days. Supply was headed up at the regulating sites ·of the Canal according to requirements for feeding distributaries taken off "8.bove them, and supply was given to the tail of the Upper Sohag Canal ·ior 11 days out of this period.
131'1 UNSTARBED QUESTI-ONS AND ANSWERS,
---- ---- ------------------ -- ----
MARKING OR NUMBEHUW OF ROADSlDE TREES.
470. Mr. E. Maya Das: Will the Honourable Minister for Agricul ture be pleased to state if imy method of marking or numbering roadside· trees has been discovered bv which the mark or number remains clearly
. visible for at least a period of five years ? The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : In the opinion of the·
Chief Conservator of Forests the most enduring method oi numbering trees. is to blaze the tree and impress the number on the wood by means of steel marking hammers or dies, or by cutting it with a chisel. 11he number then remains visible until the blaze is occluded by the growing trees, the time. v-arying with the size of the blaze and the species. This method is however- rather disfiguring to the tree, and the open blaze is apt to cause decay. _
UTILITY OF WDlD1lILLS FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES.
469. Mr. E. Maya Das: (a) Will the Honourable Minister for Edu-. cation be pleased to state if any experiments hiwe been made to ascertain the utility of windmills for commercial purposes? If so, with what results ?
(b) If the reply to the above be in the negative, does Government pro-: pose to institute such experiments ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) Ko. {b) Government has at present no such proposal under consideration.
I DE.A.TH OF ANIMALS DUE TO HEMORRHAGIC SEPTIC.lEMIA,
468. Mr. E. Maya Das: (a) Will the Honourable Minister for Agriculture be pleased to lay a statement on the table showing by dis· tricts the number of animals tl:at died of ba-morrhagic septicsemia for the past year or for any year for which the figures may be svailable ?
(b) Is Government aware that in order to decrease the risk of the spread of this disease, the immediate burial of the carcass of such animals is advisable?
(c) Has it come to the notice of Government that in some cases the dead animAls a,re cut up and disposed of in a manner which tends to increase the .
- -risk of the spread of the disease? (d) Vv11at steps have been taken or are contemplated to be taken to see
that the carcasses of such animals are buried at once? The Honourable Sardar Jotendra Singh: I regret that the answel'·
Jo this question is not yet ready. A reference has been made to the Director ()f Agriculture, Punjab, whose reply has not yet been received.
[The Eon. Mian Sir Fazl-i-lrlltain.] {e) This varies with the condition of demand for canal water. mhe··
designed full supply discharge of the Upper Sohag Canal below Bahawal; Das regulator is 114 cusecs. · (/) No, there has been no general failure of the crops on this Canal ... IDhe tail reach is reported to have fared better than in the past years. Thus, the point in the concluding lines of this part of the question does not. arise.
[281m NoVR.1927.;.. l'VlllJ.tl LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
............. ....,..- ..... ~ ")'•'• ·' ..• _., ··~·-..-"9'1""--~' ~-· ... ·"
--------- ---- - - ----··---------------·
HEADMASTER 01,' GovERNME:',T RAILWAY TECHNICAL ScHOOL.
474. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased · to state-
( a) the number of days in the year 1926 on which the Headmaster of Government Railway IJ.'echnical School worked in the said school;
HEADMASTER OF GoYERNME:N'T RAILWAY 'rEoHNICAL SCHOOL,
LAHORE.
,73. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased to state whether it is fl fact t,hat the present Headmaster· of Government Railway Technical School, Lahore, is also the Inspector of his own institution, if so, why ?
The Honourable Mr. Manobar Lal: The necessary information has been called for.
I~SPECTION OF THE GovEn~ME!sT RArr,wA Y TECHNICAL SCHOOL,
LAHORE.
4'12. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : (i) Will the Honourable Minister for Education be pleased to state-
(a) if it is a fact that there has been no inspection of the Government Railway Technical School, Lahore, by any Inspector of Indus tries or Education for the last ten years ;
(b) if it is a fact that all the Government schools are inspected by a competent authority every year ?
(ii) If so, will the Honours ble Minister be pleased to state why this institution has not been inspected for so long by any competent authority ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal : The necessary information has been called for.
APPOINTMENT OF DEMOBI~ZED OFFIOERS,
471. Sardar Bahaiur Captaia Dalpat .Siagh : Will the Honour able the Finance Member kindly state-
(a) the number of demobilised soldiers holding ministerial appoint ments;
(b) the number of demobilized soldiers holding such appointments as cha prasis and jamadars ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey .deMontmorency : Government receive return eve.r.:y quarter of demobilized soldiers appointed to posts in civil employ in different departments. In the quarter ending March 1927 the number was 336 and in the quarter ending June 1927, the number was 431 ; but these returns do not _in the case of every department distinguish as to whether the appointments were to (i) executive or (ii) ministerial or (iii) peon and jamadar's posts. I will try to secure that better details are given in future quarterly returns and will supply the honourable member with a return for a quarter when the details are complete.
. UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
477. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable Member for Finance .please state--
(a) the names of those Extra Assistant Commissioners who are posted as Civil Superintendents of jails ;
(b) the number of those who had previous experience oi the working of jails and of those who had undergone a. training course?
CIVIL 8UPERINTENDEKTS OF JAILS.
(c) A special staff is already operating in several districts. It is the .aim of Government to eradicate cattle theft as far as possible in those districts where it is prevalent.
476. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Finance Mem .ber be pleased to state-
(a) if it. is a fact that police in Gujrs t district have succeeded in tracing more than one hundred cases of cattle-lifting;
(b) whether some C. I. D. officers or extra. staff of police have been posted there to investigate the cases of cattle-lifting.
(c) whether the Government proposes to take similar steps in other districts ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) No period .is stated in the question, but it is probable that more than 100 cases have -been traced in this district.
(b) A small extra staff was posted to Gujrat district to deal with a rise in crime.
CATTLE LIFTING,
HEADMASTER OF THE GOVERNMENT RAILWAY TECHNICAL SCHOOL,
475. Chaudhri Afzal Haq : Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased to state whether the Headmaster of the Government Railway 'I'echnical School ha.s nny practical experience in arts and crafts, -oiz., moulding, turning, metal working, blacksmith's work and drawing ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The necessary information has been called for,
fChaudhri Afzal Haq.]
(b) the number of days in the same year the Headmaster was on tour in districts other than Lahore ;
(c) the arrangements made to carry on his work in the school in his absence?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The necessary information has been called for.
[23an NoVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, :1320
RESOLUTIONS. RESOLUTIO~ RE. CONTROL OF THE SALE OF ARTIFICIAL GHI (BAN;\S
PATI PRODUCTS).
Rai Sahib Lala Ganga Rim [Ambala cum Simla (Non-Muharn madan), Rurnl] (l:rdu) : Sir, I beg· to move the resolution that stands in my name and which runs as follows :-
" This Council recom-ncnds to the Governor in Council tha.t the sale of artificial ghi (Bcnaspati products) be controlled in the province by soma suitable legislation to· the effect that the vendors of such ghi and of various preparations of this ghi shall hang a sign noard in bold type saying that the ghi or the preparations thereof are of a particular variety."
Sir, I had a mind to give notice of a resolution recommending the total prohibition of the sale of Banaspati ghi but taking into consideration the fact that the Government may not be in a position to accept it, I changed my mind and limited the scope of my resolution. The resolution as moved by me simply risks that the vendors of this ghi and of various preparations -of this gh should be called upon by law to inform the buyer of the particulan ·variety of ghi 01· preparations thereof he is purchasing.
My object in moving this resolution is to bring forward fol' the considera tion of the Council the grievances of the public in the matter of the sale of Bsnaspati ghi. At present Bansspati ghi is being sold in three different 'ways. The first is that wholesale importers of this gh-i sell it to retailers. 'The second is that it is mixed up with pure ghi and sold not as Banaspati ghi
(6) S. Ahmad Hussain Shah, (7) Pandit Manmohan Xath, (8) }1. Gul Nawaa Khan, (9) Khan Sahib Nawab Ali, Qureshi,
{10) M. }furid Akbar, (11) Risaldar Ajaib Singh, (12) La,la Balwant Rai, and (18) Bai Sahib Bishan Dass, retired Extra Assistant Commissioner.
'Some of these officers have been in charge of jails before and all of them, except Rai Sahib Bishan Dass, are receiving or have received a special train· ing of 3 months in jail work before being put in charge of a jail.
The Honourable Sit Geoffrey deMontmorency : The following "Extra Assistant Commissioners have been appointed as Civil Superintendents -0f jails:-
(1) S. Muhammad Raza, (2) M. Ali }Iuhammad Khan, (8) .Khan Bahadur Shah Nawaz Khan, (4) Bawa Nanak Singh, _ (5) Lala Mahesh Dass This officer is shortly to revert to the
Punjab Civil Service and will ha replaced by Lala Hargobind who ia now under training.
UNSTA.RRED QUESTIONS AND A"SSWERS.
3 P.ll.
'Ihe Pnnaspa ti ghi is not only injurious to the health but will also, adversely affect the ghi trade if restrictions are not immediately placed on its sale. Just as the·
sugar industry of this country has suffered on account of the importation and sale of foreign sugar, similarily the g71i industry is. Jikely to suffer if no legislation is undertaken in the near future restricting the sale of Eanaspati 9M. Th« present age is an age of machinery, and I will, therefore, call cows and buffaloes machines for giving milk. These milk-giving machines are a source of great profit to the zamindars. The zamindare Ieed them on grass and' waste products and make them yield g.hi. If irrrnediate measures are not taken for the protection of these machines a nd if restrictions ru e not placed on the salo of Banaspati ghi'., pure ghi will be thrown out of market inasmuch as the price of the latter is much higl« r as compared with the former. If the Government does not take immediate measures in this direction, the natural result of this will be· that people will cease to care Iortheir cows and buffaloes and the ghi indus try will be ruined.
'.l'he Bansspati ghi, striekly speaking, is not gb'.. It is an oil and the existing law on the subject is, in my opinion not stringent enough to control the importation of Banaspati, I would, therefore, request the Government to frame a law which would efficiently control the sale of Banaspati, With .these words I move my resolution for the acceptance of the House.
lfr. President : The resolution proposed runs : "This Council recommends to the Governor in Council that the sale of artificial ghr
(Banaapati products) te controlled in the province by some suitable Jegfalation._ to the effect that the vendors of such ghi and of various preparatdons of this ghi shall hang a signboard in bold type saying that the ghi or the preparatio~. thereof are of a particular variety."
[fa.i f~liib ~ ala (llll!,8 }lam,] but as pure ghi and the third way in which its sale is being pushed on is that numerous preparations of this ghi are being sold at railway stations, in sarQ.is,. etc., and the purchasers are completely in the dark as to whether the things purchased by them were prepared in pure 9hi or adulterated ghi.
The Banaspati ghi, as the honourable members are well aware, is very injurious to the health, and especially for the throat and the stomach. In the Council of State a question was recently asked, in reply to which it was. stated that Banaspati ghi is deficient in vitamins and therefore, it is not being given to the soldiers. This is amply supported by the testimony of the Chemical Examiner of the Punjab.
In his report for the year 1926 he says:- " As to its food value when compared with good butter fat, an experiment was carried
out in two female kittens of the same litter fairlv near in size and weight. 'A' was put on fresh milk (Government Diary) containing a known per· centage of butter fat, 'B' was put on skimmed milk (butter-fat-free) plus the· same per centage of Vanaspati fat. 'A' put on weight whereas 'B' lost weight. After one month the feeding was changed round, 'B • getting fresh milk and putting on weight whereas 'A' was rut on Vanaspat! mixture and lost weight. The effects on the cats were very marked.
"It seems apparent that yhi contains vitamins which are eEEC ntial fer growth and well. being and which are deficient in Vanaspati fat. Consequently Vanaspati c.~nnot be used as a substitute for genuine gi·i'. especially in the case of infants and lactating mothers. On the other hand this vegetable fat makes a. good adulterant of glti and could be subtsituted for gh, with impunity for cooking purposes." •
[28RD N OVR, 1927 .. . l'VNJAlJ LEOIBL.lTIV:& ~OUN.CU,,
-- --· -- --· ---· -- ---------------
The question is that that resolution be adopted. _ Lala 'Gopal Das [Lahore and Ferozepore cum. Sheikhupura (Nori· _:Muhammadan), Bural] : Sir I beg to _move:
!' That the following be substituted for the original resolubion r-e !' This Council recommends to the Governor in Council tbat-
(a) Muoicipa,l Committees, TownCom'Il.itt.ee~ and Notifled Areas in t!1i, provlaoe be empowered to levy octroi duty or terminal ta:s: on the import in th<:i res· pective areas of artificial ghi or other various prepara.tious of such glli at suoh a prohibitive ta.toe that its sale should become unprofitable, and
(b) suitable legislation be undertaken to the eflect that adulteration of 1)111"8 dM with such artificial gki or with the various preparations of this ghi £~ PU.V poses of sa..le be made punishable.. "
'Sir, the resolution moved by my honourable friend Lala Gan6a Ram does not cover all that we require in this province. We not only require Iegislation to control the sale and me of Banaspati gki in the province, but we also require legislation to control the import of Banaspati products into 'this province by empowering municipal committees, town committees and notified area committees to impose a, very heavy duty on these Banes pati products so that their sale may become altogether unprofitable. The
·chief difficulty, that I expect we would hive to encounter, is th·l,t it will be very difficult for a man, at least for the a.uthoritie3, to understand whether ·a ·ghi that is imported is pure or adulterated one. I expect this difficulty will soon be solved when analysts are appointed by Government. I would further like to supplement it with the suggestion that these analysts should have along with them health officers of the local bodies trained up in order that they may have these analysts by their side in checking such adulterated ghi. In this province, ghi is put on the market after the manufacturers' demand is "satisfied in quantity as much as 40,000 maunds. The consump tion of this province is 80 thousand maunds, leaving a balance of only 10 thousand maunds for export outside the Punjab. The United Provinces produce 60 thousand maunds and its consumption is 10 thousand, leaving as much as 50 thousand maunds fol' export. The Central India produces 100 thousand maunds, its consumption is 10 thousand maunds, leaving 90 thousand maunds for export. The Central Provinces produce 60 thousand maunds, its consumption is 20 thousand maunds and it exports 40 thousand maunds.
· Mr. Owen Roberts : May I ask the honourable member to give us the source of his information ?
Lala Gopal Das : This mforms tion is taken from the general mi:1.rket reports.
Mr. Owen Roberts : What publication of the general market reports? Lala Gopal Das : From the ordinary market reports where ghi is sold
in large quantities, and the large ghi centres in the United Provinces, in the Central Provinces, as well as in the Punjab. This statement shows that the Punjab consumes the largest amount of gh·i produced as compared with other provinces and if Banaspati ghi is to.enter the Punjab, then we are the worst sufferer&. I recommend that the Government should advise local bodies to
.issue licenses- to those who sell such commodisy, Those who sell one .kind· di _ghi shonl,d be prohibited from selling ihe other kind of ghi. .Those.who~rit to deal in Banaspati products should not deal in pure ghi and tnc, tier~. If anybody does sell in contravention· of this order-, and if tb&y shoutf b&
RESOLtf'l':fON RE CON'.r:fl.OL OF 1'8E SALFJ oe A:ITTIFICIAL GHI, 1S23
I i
(
[Lala Gopal Das.] found in possession of prcducts which ate licensed to be sold by the other kind 6f vendors, they should le punished under the law. 'Ihe reports of the Chemical Examiner definitely say that the Eanaspati ghi does not con tain all the properties of pure ghi which go to sur:ply nutrition to the body. 'I he Bar.aspati prcducts badly Jack in vitamins and it aim lacks in, other nutritious substances, As everybcdy now knows well, the source ol strength for the tuilding up of human l:cdy is vitaminr, Unfortunately the Banaepati product lacks in that very substance. I further understand that some experiments were carried out in Kasauli where two guinea-pigs were put on different kinds of ghi, the one was put on Banaspati ghi while the other was given pure glii. 'lhe result was that the one that was put on pure ghi flourished, while the other lost heavily in weight. Another set was fed similarly which gave birth to some young guinea-pigs. The one that was led on pure g},i gave birth to seven healthy young ones, while the one that was fed on Eanaspati, gave birth to two sickly guinea-pigs. This clearly shows that Banaspati products do not possess those properties which pure ghi possesses. Cwing to this adulteration of ghi many kinds of throat diseases are prevalent in this province. The mortality is increasing rapidly and the infants are showing very sickly nature in their growth and they clearly show signs of underfeeding. 'Lhe inference that one can draw from these experi ments is that the free use of Banaspati products as a substitute for pure ghi stands in the way of growth of children and they are also the cause of short· ness of life. Moreover, the major portion of the army is recruited from the Punjab. If a war were to break out, which God forbid, then the ranks of the Indian army would suffer the most. If pure glii is not supplied, then the people of the Punjab would not be strong enough, their health would suffer. I verymuch doubt if the Government will be in a position to recruit any healthy and strong men from the Punjab for the army, at least in large numbers. I further understand that the army takes a supply only of pure ghi and of nothing else. No vegetable products or ghi substitutes are accepted. Why is that so? 'lhat is for the only reason that these substitutes do not possess those ingredients which go to make a man healthy and strong. I may mention for the information of the House that the import of this vegetable ghi first made its appearance in 1921-22 in a quantity of about 500 cwts. Now from April to July 1927 the import has run up to- 72,000 cwts., valued at 31l lakhs of rupees. On a calculation, it would come to 216 thousand cwts, annually. The result is that the Punjab, which is the backbone of the Indian Army, has to suffer the most and i,t will fall to its lot to consumer. major portion of this imported crticle. As everybody knows, Bombay, Bengal end Medras end other provinces do not live on ghi to such r. greet extent es the Punjab. They r.ll live on oil. The result will be that owing to the consumption of inferior ghi, the people of the Punjab. would deteriorate in strength end health, \Vhat we therefore want is that the sale of this artificiel ghi should be stopped or r,t least that its sale should. be made the most unprofttable by empowering the municipclities to impose s very heavy duty of l 00 per cent. ad volorem when they import the Banaspati. products . into their jurisdictions, I would suggest that the very fact of adulteration should be mule an offence, Unless these steps are taken this, evil fromwhich the Punjab suffers the most will nat-g& out. With these few r.emarkff I commend my amendment for the acceptenee of the House.
[28RD NOVI!. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1324.
Mr. President : The original question was- " This Council recommends to the Governor in Council that the sale of. artificial ghi
(Banaspati products) be controlled in the province by some suitable legislation. to the effect rhat the vendors of such gh, and of various prep&rl'ltioml of this gM .. shall hang a signboard in bold type saying that the ghi or the preparations thereof are of a particular variety."
since which an amendment hrs been moved: "That the following be substituted for the original resolution: " This Council recommends to the Governor in Council that-
(a) Municipal Committees, Town Committees and Notified Area, in tbil! provtnee be empowered to levy octroi duty or terminal tax on the import in their respective areas of artificial ghi or other various preparations of such ghi at such a prohibi·. bitive rate that its sale should become unprofitable, and
'11) suitable legislation be undertaken to the effect that adulteration of pure gfii with. such artificial ghi or with the various preparations of this ghi for purposes of· sale be made punishable."
The question is that that amendment be made. Mr. Owen Roberts (Nominated, Non-official) Sir, I came this
afternoon with the intention, if not of opposing the original resolution, at· any rate, of faying certain information before the Council th&t might influence the debate and lead to its modification, However, the amend ment proposed out-herods Herod e.nd leaves me 1 o alternative but to oppose it. The effect of tho original resolution would be that the steps suggested to meet the difficulty of imported qhi would in all likelihood result in increas ing sales; because if you advertise eorts'in articles as sold in a certain place, you are more likely to sell that article than to sell something which is not advertised. I quite appreciate that there may be a certain amount of feel ing on this subject, and if a resolution were brought into the Council asking for a Pure Foods Act, it would have my strongest support. But when an attack is made on these products in the terms of the amendment and the information before us is not all it should be, there is Ill thing to do but to· oppose it.
The first ob~enmtion that I want to m. kt> is that members have zot to realise that ghi t~& :~ cooking medium is probably the most expensive of any types of cooking medium used anywhere in the world, more expensive even than pure butter for the simpl- rsason that pure butter is decreased in quantity in the process of being converted into gh and, if India is the poorest country in the world, r.s it f,lwY,ys claims to be, I think it is only reesonablr, to look round for a cheaoer arnl wholesome substitute. Now, Sir, the honourable mover of the resolutio:1 quoted from what he called the Chemical Exr,miner's Report. As [ matter of fr.ct, he was quoting fro-n 'I contribution by Captain D.R. Thomas, Chemical Examiner, Punjab, to the Indian Journal of }Iedicine and }fodic,11 Reset~ reh and the r rticle is published in Vol. XIV No. 3. of Jann ary 1927. He read 2; portion of thot article, but he had not the courege to- continue beceuse the erticlo continues on page 665-
" The fact remains that these vegetable ghh fulfil the requirements of India except. that they are deficient in vitamins. They are without doubt prepared in -erup pulously clean factories and are not exposed to the various forms of contamina tion that beset the preparation of ghis in Indian bazaars. Previous to its, irnporte.tion, bazaar [Jhi8 were adurterat.ed with all sorts of objectionable fa.ta. accounting for their rancidity and offensive smell. I have noted of late·
. that ·vatia&J)(Jli fa now generally used as the adulterant of r,hi. It is without doubt a great improvement on the old-fashioned adulterants. llixed with glri, or alone it make11 a very good cooking fat;''
13~·. RESOLUTION R!i: CONTROL OF THE SAL.El OF ARTIFICIAL GHl.
{Mr. Owen Roberts.] Now, Sir, I notice that the amendment does not take exception to the
adulteration of ghi as such. It takes exception to the adulteration of ghi with vegetable products and I am wondering whether my honourable friend would prefer to see ghi adulterated in the good old way, that is, '' with all sorts of objectionable fats ". The only alternative to ghi, that previously existed in the country was crudely extracted oils. The composition of Banas psti ghi is given at page 1 of the article referred to above-
'' It is probably a mixture of cotton-seed, arachis, seasame and coeoanut oil." Recently there has been a committee sitting under the Purjab Govern
ment Development Board trying to go into this question of the produc tion of hardened oils. The industry is a valuable one and we have got all the materials for it in the province and it would be of extreme value to us -if instead of importing large quantities of this vegetable ghi as it is wrongly called, we were able to manufacture it in our O"Wn province and remove the prejudice attaching to a foreign preparation. My friend attempted to give us figures on the subject of the production of ghi. But I can sssure him that it is only with the most extreme difficulty that the Anny is able to procure the relatively small quantity of ghi that· it requires. During the last fortnight I have been through a factory especially erected for the purpose and I can assure my honourable friend that it takes a large organisation, buying in the very centre of the ghi districts, six months of hard work, to get this small amount of pure gM. I think we should be making a very grave mistake now if we attempt to touch the importation of the substitute. At the same time, I am only too willing to help any movement towards ob· iaining for this province a Pure Foods Act. I put it on the same bas-is as a Weights and Measures Act and other useful things, all of which will even· tually, I hope, come under the supervision of the Board of Local Self-Govern ment . But this is a far different matter to contemplating legislation against
.adulteration of ghi by vegetable product and by vegetable product only and I hope the Council will agree with me.
Sayad Muhammad Husain [Montgomery (Muhammadan), Rural]: Sir, I cannot support the amendment moved by my honourable friend, because I am in favour of the original resolution and I want to go much further than that. The mover of the amendment only wants that power should be given to municipalities and other bodies to stop the import of artificial ghi and it does not affect the villages where the evil is even more widespread. Ghiis a national problem in the Punjab. (Hear, hear.) Every one of us has been bred and brought up by gh.i. We cannot give up ghi as the Englishman cannot give up butter. Englishmen consume even in more ,quantities in the form of butter than we do in the form of ghi. We may utilise it as a medium for cooking or as something else and it is our national food and it is a food on which ow· forefathers and we have been bred and
'brought up. It is a fact that the Punjabis have been living on g'ii and it is due to gfii that Punjab has produced such stalwart men. Even Lord Linlithgow, a strong and well-built man himself, when he visited the Punjab ::xeniar-ked that he found in the Punjab men of his own stature and it is due to th~ fact that the Punja bis have been brought up on pure ghi and pure milk.
, Gk~ has now become very rare inthia country and only those people who are ::fortunate etlottgh to possess cows get pure ghi_; others get only adulterated
[28RD NoVB. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISI,ATIVE COUNCIL. 1326
. . Mr. J. G. Beu:ley (Secretary to Government, Punjab, Transferred
Departments): Sil', I should like first to deal with the relative merits of gin: and Banaspati glti before considering the steps that have been advocated for preventing the sale of Banaspati glti in this province .. The honourable mover of the resolution and my friend Mr. Owen Roberts both quoted
• from a paper which was contributed by the Chemical Examiner to the Punjab Government to a scientific paper. The investigations which led up to that piper were conducted, I think, at the request of the Punjab Government,· Public Health Department, and the subject is one which has been engaging the attention of the Government ~O! the la~t two,~!. three years ; and we find it" a very d iff cult subject indeed to tackle. ·
F
g!ti, this artificial or imported glti. I do not want to say anything against that product, that it is composed of such and such substances and so on. But the ordinary people buy from the baniya who is only another medium for the evil. He supplies rotten stuff to the jats and others. They mix it up with milk in the night and early in the morning they churn it .and we find half of the stuff pure g1ti and the other half artificial one. ldo not know much about it but I have heard much about the harmful effect of this arti ficial gn,. The Honourable Minister in charge of Local Self-Government has told us that two cats were brought up, one on artificial g!,i and the other on pure g~i. The cat which was brought up on the artificial g'1i became lean and was on the verge of starvation and death, whereas the other cat fed on pure natural ghi became fatter and fatter ; the process was reversed with the result that the fat cat got leaner and leaner and the other cat became fatter and fatter. So my friend the 'Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government rightly came to the conclusion that the artificial ghi has very harmful effects. Now if we go on consuming the artificial ghi, we will grow like the cat which was fed on artificial glti. I think something should be done to ensure a good supply of pure gh1 and the only way which .J can think of is to improve the cattle-breeding. Considerable efforts have been made and are being made by the. Department of Agriculture towards the improvement of the cattle. Unless every one of us take interest in the pro blem I think pure glH will become a rare thing which you may get only as a. medicine to be prescribed by kokim«: Every one of us will have to keep a cow or a buffaloe and then and only then we will be in a position to get pure unadulterated ghi. Sir, unless we take some steps to ensure a good supply of pure g~i and pure milk, we may not be able to :find hereafter people of the size and stature of our honourable President. (A voice: and yourself too.) Oh, yes; certainly. I may not be so strong as my father and my grandfather; but this is simply because we have been living in the centre of cattle-breeding districts and were bred and brought up on pure ghi and pure milk and that is why I inherit the stature which I am proud to possess. Some very serious steps should be taken by the Government in this respect. Whoever may be in charge of this, he should take immediate steps for procuring .unadulterated ghi in this province. Therefore for the reason that the amendment weakens the effect of the original resolution, I cannot support the amendment. On the other hand if there is any amend· ment which goes to strengthen the original resolution, and which will have the effect of strengthening the hands of the Government, it will have my strongest support. ·
RE;SOLlJTION RE CJNTROL OF THE SALE OF A.l\TllIOlAL GHI, 1327
[Mr .. J. ~; ,Bea~ley._] . Oapt-ain Thomas has shown that this Banaspati gki and other similar
gltis arerlacking in one very essential constituent, but he has also shown that in themselves_ they are exceedingly pure and healthy foodstuffs · which · if supplemented· -by other -substanees containing the essential vitamin can only .be .benefieial.to people who consume them.. Now the position as it preirents itself to Go:vernment is this. Here we have an excellent food being ma.de available more cheaply than natural glti. We admit- that for infants and nursing mothers this food is not suitable on account of the defeet · in its .oonstibuents, but it is suitable for adults in many circumstances if supplemented by other food. If we in any way succeed in checking the import of this new product, the result must be to force up the price of natural glti. On the other hand, the ~overnment has e_very reas?n to .heliev.e that an enormous amount of cheating now goes on m connection with this new product, and that a great deal of it is mixed with pure ghi and sold as pure gh, at the high rate prevailing for pure gltz, and this is a form of cheating which it is eminently desirable to put a stop to. But when we come to look at the remedies ,hat have been proposed we see more and more how difficult it is -to deal with the matter. The mover of the amendment to this resolu tion has suggested prohibitive rates of terminal tax or oesroi tax. This ,i~ a suggestion that Government has already explored and though it might be effective to a certain extent it would have to be very greatly supplemented by measures for detecting adulteration. To begin with, the discouraging of the import into municipalities and small towns would not prevent import into ·the province, into the rural areas of the province or into those towns where it is not within the power of the local Government to sanction the imposition of a terminal tax. There are many places for which the sanction of the Government of India would be required and as things at present are it seems very doubtful whether that sanction would be obtained. As to the method advocated by the honourable mover of the original resolution, Mr. Owen Roberts pointed out thattbe sole result of the action reeommended would be to advertise the Bsnsspesiproduct and to give a free advertise ment to.Bsnsspati, which the natural gh, would·not possess.
The mover of the amendment made another suggestion which is however not covered by the terms of the resolution. He recommended that local bodies • should be instructed to license the sale of the Banaspati product and of natural glti and that licenses should not be given for the sale of the trwo products on· the same premises. That is a measure that we had not contemplated, but in that respect all municipal committees a.t present possess the fuUeat powers for deciding what articles of food and drink should be sold · only on licensed premises and they can already take any action they like without any further legislation.
The great trouble of course is, as pointed out by my friend the honour able member for Montgomery, that there is not at present enough natural iJli to meet the -demand. The apprehension of the.mover of the original. :regolu\ion that this foreign product would ruin the gh industry of the pro vince is, I am afraid, quite groundless. Had it been likely to have had
~such an-effect the result would have beea.seen already. The import oftl:fis yrodu.ct is sufficient to have reduced the price of natural gAi.if there .bas been a supply_ in excess of.the demand.. but the:f>riee qf w:hat is called pur~
z: :. il!Ull[JA:B LEWBIJATIVJr COUNCIL. · [ 23RD NoVR, 1927. 1~
natural glii remains as high as ever, and as a. matter of fact pnre natural :!J1' outside the private house is practically unknown. .. · ·
· The general problem of dealing with adulteration of foodstuffs is being· tackled, and we ·have been very carefully examining our existing Punj!i.'li··
.Adulteration of Foods Act in order to remove the various defects in its working· We, are also gradually introducing the necessary machinery for working the Act. We hope ·that our Public Health Department Chemist will be enabled by the grant of a Rockefeller research scholarship to obtain ·the' full necessary training to qualify him for appointment as Public Analyst for the whole province. But till the Adulteration of Foods Act can really be worked, to prevent the import of this foreign product will serve really no purpose at all ; it will merely stimulate the adulteration of natural ghi in order that it may be put on the market in large enough quantities to meet · the demand. I would therefore put it to the rower of the amendment· and the mover of the original resolution that the whole subjset is receiving the most careful consideration of Government-I may here mention an other measure of. which we are exploring the possibility. If we can get suffi ciently .definite proof of the widespread adulteration of natural ghi with these Banaspati products, we are contemplating addressing the Government of India with a view to their legislating in some way so as to prohibit the import into India of these Banaspati products unless they are coloured in such a way that they cannot be mixed with natural g~i without detection But that is a thing which requires careful examination and, as I began to say, I put it to the mover of the amendment-and the mover of the resolu tion that as Government is doing all it can to find some solution of the diffi- . culty it would be unwise to attempt by the definite form of the racornmen dations which the resolution and the amendment propose to bind Govern· ment down to any one or two particular methods of dealing with the pro· blem, The measures advocated have been considered and will be recon sidered, but there are also other possibilities and ma.ny other sides of the question which have not been considered by the mover of the resolution or of the amendment. As I have said it would be unwise to attempt by resolutions of the Council to bind Government down to one particular way of. dealing with the problem.
Lala Mohan Lal [North-East Towns (Non-Muhammadan), Urban): Sir, I am glad to hear from the Secretary, Transferred Departments, that Government will take steps if it is convinced that the adulteration of Banas pati g!ti with pure g~i prevails to a large extent. For his information I may say that I have.found that this Banaspati gki is being taken into the distant corners of Chakrata and Mandi where poor labourers are working. It was -to my surprise that I found that Mandi, which used to get its gh from Kangra and its neighbourhood which were the home of pure qlii, now gets this Banas pati gki. Same is the case in the Chakrata division where Banaspati has been .imported and we now get mixed gk I want to convince Government that cheating is going on on a very large scale. It is only either the importers · .or those who deal in Banaspati g'ii who have benefitted by it. The poor have not bensfitted at all. 1fheir position remains the same. The price of the real g i{ remains the ~me and the importation of this Banas pa ti gti"has not benefitted tl;le_poor.or anybody.the loost .. In the circumstances, -does . not .G.ovemment think jt proper to allow the municipalities or small
F2
1Si9. RESOLUl'lQN:B':R' CONTROL 0.(,' 'IRE 8.ALE OF . .ARTIJ!'lOIAL GHI.
[ Lala Moha.n Lal. ] towns to impose a tax ~hich will benefit them, or does not Government. think it· advisable to bring in a measure calculated to check this evil? Does not. Government consider it advisable to support this resolution in a modi· fi.ed form so that people who buy should know that they are not buying ))Ure stuff but that they are buying mixed stuff? It will be better if the poor know that they are buying bad stuff. The price of Banaspati should also be much lower than the price of pure ghi so that people can distinguish bet ween good ghi and the imported ghi. In the circumstances, I submit that it should be the duty of Government to explore this matter. I am glad to say that they have been doing so for the last 2} years, but that is a long time and not much bas been done. This is a matter which affects the health of the province, and Government should kindly hurry up with the matter and take such steps as they think proper to see that either this ghi is not imported or if it is imported into the country the public should know that they are buying it and that they buy it at a price much lower than the P.rice of pure ghi. vVhy should the public not get the original stuff instead of this imported thing if they have to pay the price for real ghi? It is admit ted that vitamin is lacking in the imported stuff and that it is not very good for the health of the people. In the circumstances I submit that Govern ment must take measures as early as possible to see that the people do not get this mixed stuff which they are at present getting.
Raizada Hans Raj [ Jullundur-cum-Ludhiana (Non-Muhammadan, Rural] (Urdu) : Sir, I am glad to know from the Secretary, Transferred Departments, that Government is exploring various possibilities to control the sale of adulterated ghi in the province. For that it really deserves our sincerest thanks. As to the merits of the question before us, it can be · said that Banaspati is not a good substitute of pure ghi. And a sub stitute it cannot be because one is artificial and the other is natural. But I hesitate to subscribe to the view that Banaspati is totally useless and,.is not 'required at all. Pure ghi being dearer than the artificial ghi is not within the easy reach of the poor people. They can hardly afford to buy it. In their interest, therefore, we should not ask for the prevention 'of the im portation 0£ Banaspati ghi. Of course measures should immediately be taken to put a stop to the sale of adulterated ghi. In my opinion; if by some legislation it is provided that artificial ghi shall have some deep and distin guishing colour, most of our complaints will have been removed,
The honourable .member for Simla has told us to-day that even the unsophisticated villagers in the Kangra district have taken to producing adulterated ghi. I may add for the information of the House that Jul~ lundur · district also has not escaped this contagion. The producers of ghi in that district buy artificial ghi and mix it with milk. This milk is then churned and ghi produced out of its butter is presented in .the market as pure ghi. Our friends the Englishmen, should, therefore, take warning tha.t · the butter that is supplied to them is, in most cases, impure.
The honourable members have heard an interesting account of how the· Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government tested the comparative· worth of pure and artificial glti by experimenting their effects on two cats. This account appeared in a newspaper too which I had the occasion to read. But it would have been much more interesting if our friend Lala Mohan Lal:
[281m NovR.1927~ PUNJAB LEGISLA.tIVE COUNCIL, 1330
REBOLUTION B1J · OONTROL 01" THE SALF. OF ABTUIOIAL GHI, 1881 'had informed. the House, which he has not done, perhaps, because of hia unassuming nature, the harmful effect of the use of artificial g"1, to bis own person, aa is apparent from. bis appearance to-day (laughter).
Dr. Gopi Chand Bharrava [Lahore City (Non-Muhammadan), Urban) (Urdu) : Sir, in my opinion, we can approach the subject under discussion from two different standpoints-from the point of view of public health and from economic point of view. I will deal with these aspects of the ques tion while analysing the points raised by the Secretary, 'fransf erred Departments, in hie speech. ··
First of all the honourable Secretary tried to impress· us, in his own sweet way, that the problem of Banaspati ghi is engaging the attention of the Government and that measures will be taken to control the sale of adulterated ghi as soon as it becomes possible for the Government to do 110. He has been further pleased to express a wish that it would facilitate matters for the province if the Government of India were to check the im portation of Banaspati. I hope I will be excused if I say that these lip assuranoea and the expression of pious wishes do not carry conviction with us particularly when we look a little deep into the arguments advanced by the Secretary while opposing the motion. He has said that Bans spati is not only itself cheaper, but its presence in the market has been instru mental in bringing down the price of pure ghi. That may be so. But I, for one, do not believe that artificial ghi has produced any such effect. I admit for a moment for the ss ke of argument that Banaspati is cheaper. But the fallacy of this argument becomes at once apparent when we take into consideration the opinion of the medical experts about this kind of ghi. 'I'hey are of opinion that this ghi does not contain much of vatimins, the only nourishing part. of a food, and that, therefore, the use of Banaspati must be supplemented by some such diet as contains vitamins in sufficient
-quantity. It is apparent, therefore, that what one will save by purchasing artificial ghi, at lower rates will have to be spent in procuring that kind of expensive diet. Hence the apparent cheapness of Banaspati should have no attraction for us. We do not stand to gain both from the point of view of public health and from economic point of view by the use of Bsnaspati .ghi.
That is not all. If one were to look at this problem from political point of 'view, one would find that it is much more serious and grave than it appears on the surface. Our economic slavery is already proverbial. For all our requirements of life we depend on foreign countries. With regard to the foodstuffs alone we were comparatively independent as our province hap pened to be an agricultural province. But what a pity it is that on the break of famines we become helpless and we have seen that wheat is imported from countries like Australia to cope with the critical position. It is really shameful for an agricultura.l province. It appears that now attempts are being made to discourage the produce of pure ghi. Our markets are being flooded with Banaspati to successfully compete with pure natural ghi and then finally to exclude it from the field. I vividly see that day is fast ap proaching when Banaspati ghi will have the field entirely to itself and will cost us more than our pure natural g1ri. I have not forgotten the days when similar tactics were employed to capture the cloth markets of this country.
: [ ·nr. &pi .. Chand, Bhargava-.· J , , .. · .. · . in ~iew of these considerations I would urge the Government to e~ pedite the· proposed legislation, · It is no use s-a.ying that ae soon as pure
,·ghi: is .obtsinabla in abundance in the market; proper checli8·will be placed oil Wie supply of Baiiaspati. We know it is only a plea. to gain time for tlie
.. Banaepati gki tobecome popular. To it possible that the produce of' pure
.glrLwill receive a.ny encouragement so long as artificial gki is available : a.t cheaper rates ? Certainly not. I am sure if the Government were to· take up this question honestly, the matters will improve hi no time.- Let
:the Govemmem, provide pasture lands ; let i~ spend some of its resources . . · for the improvement of cattle breeding and I can assure it of encouraging· :Jesuits .so far a,s the produce of pure ghi is concerned .. Yesterday the .-'tlo;riourable Minister was pleased to remark that it was impossible to bring , the sale of adultersted ghi in other parts of the province excepting Siml& ._witbin the operation of the Adulteration of Foods Act ....••.•...•
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : Sir,' on a point of order. l did not·say that it was not poaible to put it down in the Foods
.. Adulteration Act. What I did say was this : In Lahore and Simla we have . appointed public analysts for the purpose of analysing ghi with the result · that. if the municipality or any individual gets hold of a. sample of ghi and has it analysed and finds that it is adulterated then the person who wants to cheat will be prosecuted. In other places there is the difficulty
· of finding public analysts. It is not a question of putting it· in the Foods. · Adulteration Act. .
Dr, Gopi Chand, Bhargava (continued in Urdu): I stand correct . ed, and I am thankful to · the Honourable Minister for this. H reaUy pains me to find that even most important issues are being shelved. When we ask for some suitable legislation to be enacted to control
. the sale of Banaspati, we receive a curt reply that the local .. bodies already . possess power to check the sale of adulterated ghi by imposing terminal-tax.
· And when it is proposed that municipal committees; town committees- • and notified areas be empowered to levy prohibitive taxes to discourage the sale of Banaspati, the objection is at once raised that in that case, this . ghi
. will find a ready market in the villages. It is true and we are ourselves anxious to save the villages from this evil and not without· reason. W&-
. have not only heard to-day during the course of discussion, but it is now a. widely known fact that Banaspati is bought and mixed by the villagers with the milk. This milk is then churned and adulterated ghi is produced, possessing even a better look than that of pure ghi. We do not insist on. getting the proposed resolution or the amendment thereon accepted as they stand; We are not enamoured of any particular form or words. ,v e want only that effective checks should be placed on the sale of Banaspati, Let the Government accept our proposal in any form that is suitable. to 'the
· interests of the villages and the cities alike. ·
Before closing my remarks, I would like to make one last request. If . at present pure ghi is not available in abundance to meet out requirements and if, therefore, its supply is to be supplemented, the free sale of oils ex
·. traeted from oilseeds be allowed and encouraged as a substitute of ghi. No facilities should be afforded for the sale of Banaspati ghi because it.
. , · ... , . -P:UNJ...» LJIOiil.A.rIV·E COUNOIL, · E2-San No.,-2.1921 .. -1832 i' . ~
. -~- ...... -c. , .. ·1
is worse than the oils. With these words I lit\lp~rt- Ui~ im,>ti()~ helo!e-~ &~ . . . . • · Mr: M. A:·~ Gliani.'(Noinina.ted,· N"on·~offioiaJ) :· Sir) I do not think tlier~ 'ean be- any two opinions among the-honourablemetiibers,~ thii!-•Hooee-as regards the evils of Banaspati.gh{ .Bnt neither the proposal of the~li0'.IWlir· -ahle mover of the resolution.nor' that of the mover of the amendment goes far enough to check. this evil. If we want· to remove this evil, we must go fo the very root thereof.. The resolution wants that the sale of artificial ghi should be controlled by legislation and: that the· vendors of artificial gm: and of various preparations of · this gki should hang a signboard in b6ld· type giving a description of the ghi sold by them. My humble submission is that this will not check the evil at all. Most of the people who buy ghi in the shops are illiterate people. They will not be able to read the board or to see whether artificial ghi is sold and whether pure ghi is sold, My objection to the resolution is that it does not go far enough to strike at the root: of the evil. The amendment says that municipal committees, town eom mittees and notified areas should he empowered to levy ootroi duty or terminal tax at such prohibitive rate that its sale should become unpro fitable. My humble submission in that respect is that the importation of artificial ghi should be altogether prohibited. It must be remembered that artificial ghi is not only imported into cities, hut also into villages. Even the amendment does not go far enough to strike at the very root of the evil. :i'vly humble submission is that instead of accepting the resolution or the amendment. ,, e n. ust introduce some bill to the effect that srtii:.. eial ghi should not at all l;e imported into this province and it should be made penal to import such gJ.i or to manufacture the same in. this province. With these words, I ask the House to reject both the resolution and the amendment.
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh (Minister for Agricul ture) ; There are just one or two words I wish to say on this resolution. The honourable member Dr. Gopi Chand, Bhargava, spoke about the need of increasing the production of ghi. I would refer him to the diagrams which I have placed in the lobby of the House. These diagrams show the programme of the Government in increasing the milk supply of the pro vince by providing better bulls. My complaint is that the cities are· not doing anything in the matter. Take for instance, Amritsar or Lahore, large cities in themselves, they have made absolutely no attempt to get better bulls. The district boards are getting better bulls from Hissar and other places. I regret that big cities like Amritsar and Lahore have not so far taken any step whatsoever to get better class of bulls which would increase milk and ghi supply. I wish to invite the co-operation of .Amrit sar and Lahore municipalities in this matter. They should take up this matter and provide better class of bulls just as district boards are pro viding better bulls for villages. It is an established fact that if you get better bulls, you can increase the milk supply almost immediately.
The other point to which I want to invite the attention of the House is that vegetable oil has always been used for food and Banaspati ghi is no thing else than hardened vegetable oil. The only objection against Banas pa.ti ghi is that it is imported from outside and that it is not produced in this country itself. My hounourable friend who spoke just before me said th~t we ought to be content with crude oils in preference to Banaspati. ghi; As
'.
[Hon. Sardar Jogendra Singh.]
tJ}Er honourable member Mr. Owen Roberts pointed out, there is a. sub· eommittee of the Development Board engaged in exploring the avenue of production of Banaspati ghi in the province. If it is possible to produce hardened oils, that is country-made Banaspati, if I may so call it, in the Pun jab itself~ it will go a long way to meet the demand in the province itself. Here, again it is for the members of this House and the people outside to co-operate with the sub-committee in establishing oil refineries where oil could be hardened and Banaspati ghi could be produced in the province. In the meanwhile, we have to consider whether it is conducive to the health of the people to deny them cheap Banaspati ghi if pure natural ghi is not obtainable, and whether it is in the interest of the province to go on using this ghi· for food when the pure gki is not obtainable in the province itself. I may mention that it has been said that this ghi is deficient in one vitamin it is true, but it is also true of any other vegetable oil that we may use. But as the honourable member Dr. Gopi Chand knows, other foods have the necessary vitamins and hardened oil gives sufficient nourishment if other vegetables are added to the diet. So in coming to any decision in this matter, we have to consider whether we are not depriving the poor of the province of the use of Banaspati gh, by prohibiting it altogether and by not making any provision for the supply of pure gh either. The remedy lies, as I have already pointed out, in our taking up the matter earnestly in hand and producing hardened oil in the province itself.
Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram [South-East Rohtak (Non-Muham madan, Rural] : Sir, Mr. Beazley when he was making a statement with regard to the steps that have so far been taken by the Government said that if Government could be convinced that the evil existed to any very great extent, then they would be in a stronger position to press upon the Govern- ment of India the necessity of introducing suitable legislation .
Mr. J. G. Beazley: May I explain, Sir? I did not say that the Punjab Government was not convinced. They are convinced that cheating goes on on a widespread scale, but they want a considerable body of actual proof to lay before the Government of India to induce them to take any action in the matter.
Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram : I am afraid I am not in a posi tion to supply any facts and figures or statistics of the amount of vegetable gh1 that is used in adulterating natural ghi. I come from a part of the pro vince which is a very important ghi producing centre. It has always been so, it continues to be so and probably it would continue to be so even in the future. I am very intimately acquainted with the conditions in the four or five districts in the South-East Punjab, Rohtak, Gurgaon, Karnal, Hissar, and Delhi. From my experience and knowledge of these tracts, I can say that the evil is really very widespread. There is persistent complaint throughout that area that veget.able ghi is imported in very large quantities and is mixed with natural ghi and sold out as natural ghz:. So on that point the evidence is fairly strong and it ought to enable the Punjab Government. to press its point of view on the Government of India with con siderable force. From the experiments that were conducted in the Public Health Department, it is obvious that the nutritive value of Banaspati ghi is very poor. Another thing which makes us come to the same conclusion - ·,
[28RD Novn.1~7. 'PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1334
is that the military authorities have prohibited the use of Banaspati gk( in regiments. Of course, I do not know exactly the ground on which the military authorities interdicted the use of Banaspati gki, but I: know very .strong objection was taken by soldiers serving in such regiments aga.4',lst the use of Banaspati gh;, and amongst other things, this may be one oftbe main reasons why the military authorities forbade the use or sale of Banas pati glu to their soldiers. From the experiments that have been conducted under the auspices of the Health Department here and from thefa.ct that the military authorities have had to interdict the use or sale of Banaspati ghi, it is apparent that the food value contained in Banaspati ghi is very meagre. So the· Government is in a very strong position to suggest to the Government of India any steps that may be necessary to prevent altogether or to discourage to· a very large extent the importation of Banaspasi gM. However, I am not in agreement with some of the honourable members who have made speeches before me, particularly one honourable member-> I infer from his speech-ehss misunderstood the motives of the Gov ernment and he denied the sincerity of the Government in combating this evil. The honourable· member for Lahore suggested that the Government was really evading the issue. I feel sure there is absolutely no ground for any mistrust of this kind. The Punjab Government has tried its best to ascertain the nature and extent 0£ the evil and to ascsrtain what steps may be taken to counteract this evil. I am sure that they are earnest about finding remedies to remove this evil altogether or at aiiy rate to reduce it within very narrow limits. All thst the Secretary to the Transferred De p:-,rtments suggested was that the object of this resolution and the amend ment would be better served if they were not pressed because the resolution and the amendment as they stand tie down the Government to one parti cular course of action. If neither the resolution nor the amendment is passed, the Government will be in a position to explore all the possible and practicable means of remedying this evil. (A voice: It is a recom mendation only.)
Yes, but it is a recommendation addressed to a 'l'ransferred Depart ment and if the resolution is adopted, then the
. 4
P. 11• Minister is . bound to give effect to it. (Qries of
no, no.) Oh, yes ; anyway that is my reading of the constitution. People may differ, but I hold that if a resolution is passed by this Council, the Minister in charge of the department is bound under the constitution to give effect to it. (Hear, hear.] Therefore, in view of the statement that has been made by the Secretary, r_rransfen-ed Departments, I would suggest that neither the amendment nor the resolution should be pressed. I had .a. talk with the Minister and I am satisfied that he is trying his very best to remove the evil to which his attention has been drawn in this House.
Shaikh Sir Abdul Qadir (Nominated, Non-official) : . Sir, I am in sympathy with the object underlying the original resolution as well as the .amendment ; but I cannot support all the suggestions which have been made in their entirety. That moans that there is a difference of opinion in the House as to the methods to be adopted to remove the evil; but there seems to be a universal agreement as to the existence of the evil. It may be said that so far as the question of any legislation to prevent the import of this :atuff is concerned, even if that were considered desirable, that would be
'
1885' BBSOLUTION _ KE OONTl\OL OJ THE SALE 01' ARTI.ICIAL (}HI.
[S'qaiJiih,Su- Kbdul Qadir] l8l ali~India. question and rdr that it will have .to go. to the centr;p~~~ l&tu,re._ Sc-far as the suggestion which has been referr.ed to by -the Secretary:r Transferred Departments, is concerned, that, I think, should be pressed Qri. the· atteµtio.n · of the Govemmen t of India by our Government without . ruiy f11rtne;r delay. . 'The Secretary, Transferred . Departments, told us that Government is considering, if sufficient proof is forthcoming of the fact that this adulteration of Banaspati gh• with the natural .ghi is going on on.a large scale, fo ask the Government of India to have legislation to prevent this·stnffheing imported into this country without some means of distinguish- ing jt from the ordinary gh,, so that if it is coloured in such a way that any body mixing it with the ordinary ghi in any form may be detected, th~t would prevent the wholesale process of adulteration. '.L'"his is a very modest remedy, but quite useful for the present and as Lhave already said, it must t be pressed on the attention of the Government a.t once, because we are asaured that the Punjab Government is convinced thet this adulteration is going on a fairly large scale and I really do not know what kind of proof or evidence is required for the purpose when proof is to be found in the health of the people who live in this country and who are familiar with the conditions that r.te prevailing in this respect. \Ve have had testimony this aftemoon from so many honourable members who say that adultera tion is going on on r. large scale. I myself heve heard of cases of compara tively great fortunes being made in [I very short time by people in the 9hi business by means of this' adulteration. There have been 'remarkable in stances of such fortunes almost in every large town in the Punjab. Several such cases have come to my notice and I am sure that similar cases would have come to the notice of many bonoumble members. of this House. If Government is anxious to find 2,ny definite statistics on this point, all that it has to do is to ask the various municipalities to supply information about their local areas and various leading citizens in large towns to supply them information and I am sure that in no time they will be in possession of some definite information on that point. But I should not, if I were in their position, wait unnecessarily for the collection of that information before· movmr.. the Government of India. We should approach the Government and also start collecting the information e.t the serne time. This modest step that has been thought of by the Government and which hes been indicated by the Secretary, Transferred Departments, should be taken at o.uce ..
Then we come to another step which has been suggested in the original motion that in some way it should be made clear to the public which goes to purchase the ghi that what they are purchasing is the stuff for which they have paid. They can know whether they are purchasing the pure ghi. or the adulterated ghi. This is a very modest demand. If it requires legislation, I would submit that it might be undertaken at once. If it can be. done by simply authorising the municipalities to take such measures which would ensure the result we ask for, I think that should be done without further delay. I am told that a measure of this nature has been tried· in. .the Delhi municipality. I am told that the municipality there have ordered that anybody who sells this particular brand of gki, the imported stuff, which is deficient in certain nourishing elements, should have a descriptive
1336.
• Ril'lroLU'l'ION RE' ~NTRQL--Oi'"l'~.ff'·~» \QP--a,RTH'IClA.L GHJ. )88'[
mark on the tin or on the vessel in whioh he offers it fot·aafu,.:soithatany1 .body who. is purchasing. it _linows, in ,th,e firs, place, .what he is; P:nrcha~ ~n.q jn the second place, that he purchases ~t, ~t. the. price which is th~ proper price for it and is not victimised in the way in which many people . in: the· Punjab are being victimised tosday who· pa.y the price of· pure g,H&nd ~t only the adulterated stuff; So far as this matter of adulteration goes, Lmay· point out that I agree with Mr; Owen Roberts in some of. the observations. be made, but I do not agree with that part of his speech where he Wi\S draw~ ing a contrast between. the old system of adulteration. when lllMiy. objflCtiQD.! able fa.ta- were mixed with ghi and the present system by which the ~s~· pati is mixed with ghi, because the difference in these two processes liss irl this» that the fats which were mixed with ghi under the old system .were fmsily recognised and they could be mixed only in very small quantities. '.Ch\Y moment anybody tried to mix a very large quantity of those objectionable and smelling fats, that was easily detected by merely smelling a small quantity. But this Bansspati can be mixed to such a large extent, half to half or even more, without any possibility of detecting the fraud either by smell or by looking at it. The adulteration is now going on on a much larger scale than in the old system of adulteration and therefore, the real remedy would be to have a measure against this adulteration. We have been told that the Govem.meut is trying to revise the Punjab Foods Adulteration Act in such a way as to meet some of the evils that are in existence and I hope that particular care will be taken to meet this evil which has been emphasised. to-day. ·
Pandit Nanak Chand [Hoshiarpur (Non-Muhammadan), Rural j ~ Sir, I listened to the speech delivered by the honourable member who spoke- for the Government and he told us that this problem is engaging the special attention of the Government of India, but the arguments which he gave showed that he himself was against the resolution and showed that there wa.s not much of sympathy. For example, he was of opinion that this Banaspati ghi was a healthy food for adults and that it would force up the price of the natural ghi if its sale is stopped. Sir, some time ago a. question was put in the Council of State in regard to the ghi and the· Government on the basis of the answer given by His Excellency the Commander-in-Chief to that question should have stopped the sale of the ghi throughout the length and breadth of India. This was the question: ' Is it a fact that the mili ta.ry authorities do not allow the supply of artificial ghi, vegetable compounds. or cocogem to the Indian army? If so, will they state the reasons?'
In the 3rd paragraph of the answer to that question, it is stated : .. It is not thought desirable to deprive the Indian soldier of an article which contains substances essential to his growth and physical fitness in favour of one which does not and which would probably be much less acceptable to him than the article to which he has been accustomed from childhood;" Thus this artificial gh-i is not given to the soldiers.
I was reading the other day the report of a doctor in a newspaper. If I remember aright, he said that the adulteration of pure ghi with oocogem or Banaspati leads to pthysis or consumption. Now what I respectfully submit to the House is that it should give its whole-hearted support to the resolution. I also want to remove one misconception which the honourable member for Rohtak is under. These resolutions are not binding on the
'[ Pandit Nanak Chand.] ·Government, wh~ther transferred or reserved. These are merely' exprest;ionB <>f the opinions of the Honse on certain subjects and legally and constitu ii(;mally the Government is not bound to adopt a measure proposed· in any particular resolution ; but the spirit of the resolution the Government may -aeeept and adopt measures for carrying it out, if it so desires. That is the -eonstitution as it stands to-day. It might be changed to-morrow. I do not know that ; but so far as the constiution as it stands to-day is concerned, -even if a resolution is passed by the House the Government may or may not accept it. It is not legally and constitutionally binding on the Ministers to act upon it. Therefore, my submission is that Chaudhri Chhotu Ram was not right in saying that the resolution is legally binding on the Minis· ·ters. The House is perfectly justified in passing this resolution and thus .giving an expression of its opinion that the people of this province are not prepared to tolerate this Banaspati ghi. That is the spirit of the reso lution and that is what it implies. Now, Sir, one argument advanced by the Secretary, Transferred Departments, was that it would force up the price of natural ghi. I do not know whether that would be the result, but this one fact is certain, that people who used to be fed on natural and pure ghi are now being fed on poison. People who used to get pure ghi" for the price that they paid are now getting poison in return for the money they
-spsnd, It is impossible for the ordinary man or for even an expert tradesman to find out whether the gh·i is mixed ghi or not. Statements are made from time to time by those people who deal in this ghi that it looks very nice and so on .. You cannot easily distinguish it from the ordinary gni. I know that the Honourable Minister for Agriculture is very fond 'of this vegetable ghi. Outside the Council Chamber also he advises people to manufacture pure Banaspati qM. But the experiments made from time to time show that this adulterated gh-i is deteriorating the health of the people who feed on it. I do not know what. is meant by saying that a large number of bulls are kept in the cattle farm. But I know that as a matter of fact there was a time when this cattle farm used to have a large number of cows and bulls. Now perhaps there are larger numbers of mules in this cattle farm than these bul1s and cows.
The Honourable. Sir Geoffrey deMontm?reney : Certainly not , "Ihere are a large number of cows.
Pandit Nanak Chand : At any rate there has been a considerable reduction in the number of bulls and cows in the cattle farm. Is this statement challenged by the Government ? I see that .,that statement is not ehallanged and it serves my purpose equally. Certain figures are placed in my hands by my honourable friend, Lala Gopal Das, who has studied this subject and it is found that 40,000 maunds of pure ghi comes to the markets in the Punjab and only 80,000 maunds are consumed; still there is a surplus of 10,000 maunds, It may be true that most of it is mixed up with vegetable 9/, i, but I cannot say anything about the matter.
This will show, Sir, that really this is a very acute problem. The greatest sufferer from this evil is the ordinary peasant in the village who used to keep a cow or a buffalo and used to sell pure gh1: and make his living by it. Hundreds of people. make their living by that. If you introduce :nis artificial ghi and it is impossible for people to make a distinction bet-
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. [28RD NOVR, 1927. 1888
r I
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ween the~wo ghis and one ghi is sold cheaper than the other you are driving · this seller of pure gJii out of the market. The result. will be that he will sell his buffaloes and cows and you take away from him the only means of livelihood. A large number of people came and said to me : Wbat are we going to do : we go to the bazaar and we find the. people are selling gki there at much cheaper rate, so cheap that vie cannot afford to sall ours at tlfat rate. They did not know that this ghi was mixed up with artificial stuff, There were only two courses open to them, that either they should also start mixing up their ghi with .the artificial ghi or close their shops and go. The first course would lead to dishonesty and that is ~ thing which Government and we ought to discourage. This is a very serious problem. The hardest hit is the man who lives in the village, in the cottage. There are people undoubtedly, as my friend Shaikh Abdul Qadir said just now, who have made fortunes by the sale of this artificial ghi or by the sale of mixed-up ghi. But it has harmed hundreds of sellers of pure ghi. The resolution should be accepted from the public health point· of view and it should be accepted from the economic point of view: This arti ficial ghi benefits materially a few and injures the health of the whole pro vince, and the sooner the thing is put a stop to the better it is.
It is indeed very good that the Punjab Government is taking a keen . interest in this matter. Nobody questions the bona fides of the Punjab
Government, but the resolution if passed will go to strengthen their hands. and they will be able to say to the Government of India that here is a resolu tion which the Punjab Council has passed on which the Government of India should also act.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon (Minister for Local Self Government}: Sir, I am grateful to the House for the very valuable light that they have thrown on this vexed question. I have been myself studying this evil as keenly as any member of this House. If you wish to find out as to what the Indian mind feels about the effect of Banaapati gh1'. you have got to go to the streets and see the labourers who eat simple chapatis and dal .. having nothing more to eat. You will find that there are many in that clas; in this country with whom natural ghi is the only stuff which gives them the necessary vitamins. If you take the ghi out of their d,al or out of their chapatis, you will find that their food will not be as nourishing as it ought to be. If a man in the course of the day has three or four meals and has butter, milk, eggs and meat, he does not require the use of ghi in his food· because the other things an> quite sufficient to keep him going. The next question is as to whether Banaspati which is only used for cooking purposes can be used by the Indians. If Banaspati is used for roasting meat or for other rich foods, then certainly you do not require ghi for that purpose. But if Banaspati is used in order to replace ghi which is used in Indian food, in cooking dal or chapatis, then certainly Banas pa ti is not the proper medium for roastirz or cooking your food. So far as the Indian is concerned, I feel myself that Bansspati is not a good substitute for ghi and we in no case say that the Banespati is a good article for food for the average Indian. So we have come to this conclusion that as far as the Indian public is con cerned, the use of Banaspati is not good for them. It has been argued that Banaspati is not directly injurious, · I certainly agree that it is not injurious in the sense, for instance, as arsenic is. Arsenic is directly inju--
RESOLUTION RE CONTROL OF THE BALE OF ARTIFICIAL GHI.
'[ Hon. Malik Firoz I{han, Noon.] -rious. On the otherhand Bsnaspati has not that effect. It has this· effeet --tha.t it greatly reduces a man's vitality and the effect of that article of food· in the long run is, I think, as injurious as that of any poison. Banaspasi is therefore a bad substitute for ghi and we should do our best to control its,-sale. I have been trying to study this question as minutely as possible. Lhave thought of the question of prohibiting the import of Banaspati into this. province. I am sorry to say that· to prohibit the import of this article into this province was not within my power nor within the power of this Government. Then, I further went into the question of requesting muni-. cipal committees to prohibit the sale of this article within their limits, and ot prohibiting its being disembarked at certain railway stations. This
.method again was found defective because a man who wishes to cheat the. public need not necessarily detrain his Banaspati consignment at a parti cular railway station where there is a. municipal committee. For instance,
'in the case of Lahore he can easily detrain it some ten or fifteen miles out . ·and then bring it into Lahore by a motor lorry. So even that method could . . not be as effective as it was desired.
Then again it could be detrained at certain small stations on the Iine. Mid from there taken to villages and there mixed with real ghi and imported intotowns and municipalities, as has been pointed out by several honourable members of the House. 'I'hat method again was found to be defective and could not be used to do away with this evil. ·
What we have been able to do and what we intend to do in this matter, .. I will lay before this House. When I took office I found that people who were adulterating ghi could not easily be caught or tried or punished and one --of the masons for that was that, we had no public analyst. I am glad to in· form.the House that we have during the last few months appointed public analysts in Simla and Lahore. These are the only two places where such officers were available whose services we could utilise for this purpose. We
• have also under contemplation the appointment of a public analyst for the whole of the province, because eseh district board or municipal committee cannot have a public analyst of its own for want of funds. Therefore we thought of appointing one analyst for the whole of the province, and we are doing our best to bring that about. We have also issued instructions to all the District Health Officers to collect data in order to strengthen our hands· to go to the Government of India. The only effective way in which we can l:itop the mixing of .this article is, as has already been suggested, to colour it. We have already under contemplation the issue of a letter to the Government of India on the subject. We were no doubt waiting to get some material to strengthen our hands to go to the Government of India, and to-day, I am glad to say, this House has supplied us with that material. I am thoroughly
.convinoed of the accuracy of the statements made on the floor of this House· that this evil prevails. to a great extent, and am strongly of opinion that
,something .mnst be done. With the support of your speeches in this House we will certainly at once. proceed to address the Government of India on the subject and try to bring about. some sort of legislation or executive order by which all Banaspati produced in .India or imported is coloured in such a
·w~y that if it is-mixed with.real ghititis spotted at once, ,;. . . . . . - . .
..
,PUNJAB LEGISLATIVJil COUNCIL. [ 23RD NoVR. 1927 • .1840
·' ·~·· ·. ···,-~"."."'..... ., ·~·,· .. , ... ,,. ....
We have also under consideration the amendment·of the Adulteration -0! Food Act and we are hoping to suggest some measures to cope with -this danger. ·
The honourable member who moved the amendment has made a sug gestion in clause (b), namely, that suitable legislation 'be undertaken to the .effect that adulteration of pure ghi with such artificial ghi or . with the various preparations of this g4i for purposes of sale be made punishable. 0£ course if a man adulterates glii he could even now be punished under the ordinary· law for cheating under the Indian Penal Code, a.nd we ha'\1-e
-supplied the public with the machinery to find out whether a certain ghi is adulterated or not. We have also got the standard of good g~i fixed. So 1t is easy to find out whether a sample of good ghi obtained from a shop is .adultsrated or not. Besides, we intend bringing in some sort of measure suggested in the amendment.
I may also say that the suggestion of Lala Gopal Das is a very valuable -one. He suggests that something should be done to regulate the sale of Banaspasi ghi and pure gh,i in municipalities and other places. I have decidedto issue instructions to municipalities at once informing them that
·they have the power to license certain shops and if the municipalities make it obligatory on people to take out a. license from them for the sale of Banas pati, I think that the evil may probably be checked to. a great extent. If they also make it a rule that the same man is not to sail Banaspati and ghi that will be a great step forward. I have decided on that step and instruc tions will be issued accordingly.
. Now, as far as this amendment is concerned, I am afraid I cannot agree with the first part of it, because as has been pointed out by the honourable member from Shergarh, this amendment really does notgo far enough; The -amendment only suggests the prevention of this evil in municipalities and -small towns and notified areas and so on. You cannot keep off this evil 'in this way, as I have already said, because Banaspati will be brought· into ·those places through the medium of villagers and it will not be
·possible to stop the evil. Therefore this part of the amendment, I hope, 'the honourable member will not press, because it does not go far .enough and will not achieve the object that we have in view.
As for the second part, I have suggested already that we intend Iegis- · Iating, So I trust he will not press this part of the amendment also. If
·th1s amendment is pressed, I fear ·it will have undesirable effect· on the resolution.
Adar .as the resolution is concerned, I am in entire agreement with.the -principles underlying that resolution. 'I'he suggestion that has been made therein is very simple and we already have in contemplation some measure
.of the sort suggested therein. But even 'there the resolution does not go far enough and we may be able to find other means of carrying out the
.objeet that he has in view. It is my intention, as well as his, to keep this .dsnger away as far as possible. I leave it to him whether he wishes to· withdraw or to pressthe resolution to a division.
. . Lala ,Gopal Das: Sir, having heard the assuranee of the Honourable Minister, for Local Self-Government, I beg leave to withdraw my amend ment. . . ·
. . , The amendment was by leave withdrawn.
BESOLU'tION RE CONTROL OF 'rB.'E ·1':ALE OF Al\TIFIClAL GBI, 'lffl
RESOLUTION ut: UTILISATION OF THE GOVERNMENT OF I~mu's REMISSION'
FOR LEVELLING DOWN LAND REVENUE.
Captain Sardar·Sikandar Hayat Khan (Muhammadan Landholders)' (Urdu): Mr. President, with your permission, I beg to move the resolution standing in my name. It reads :-
~· This Council recommends to His Excellency the Governor in Council- (a) that a sum of Rs. 50 lakhs, out of the remission made by the Government of
India, in the annual contribution from this province, be set a part annually for the next ten years for the purpose of creating a special fund witJi a view to levelling down the land revenue in the province, and in particular to give relief to such barani tracts and districts in which the prospects of providing:
· irrigation and other facilities for development arc remote ; (b) that the amount of this fund be invested in the mortgage and co-operative·
banks, by way of loans to those institutions at six per cent. per annum and the income alone from these investments be utilised in the manner indicated in, the preceding clause."
Sir, my resolution is self-contained and for this reason needs no lengthy explanation from me. I hope that the Honourable the Revenue Member and the Financial Commissioner will welcome it or at least receive it sympa thetically, since it will give them -an opportunity of affording relief to those districts which are suffering from certain hardships owing to excessive rate of land revenue, resulting either from the settlement operations or otherwise. Instead of upsetting the whole of the settlement, which will really be involved if the Government were to attempt at relieving the hardships of the people by some way other than that embodied in my resolution, this proposal puts in their hands an easy means of achieving that object. I shall therefore at this juncture only refer to some of the prominent features and reasons for bring ing forward this resolution 'and will, if rieed be, discuss them in extenso after hearing the speeches of the Government members. Sir, you have so often heard the tale of woe and of the sad plight of zamindars in this pi"o- vines that I need not emphasise this point any further. The Government are fully conversant with the unhappy position of the rural classes and are no· doubt aware of the fact that their condition is· getting from bad to worse. We have frequently brought to the notice of the Government the suffering of the zamindars caused by economic pressure and their impecunious state.
Mr. C. M. King : For what reason ? I could not catch you very well, , -captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan (continued. in Urdu); r·
mean their miserable economic and financial condition. Government knows. it and those who have read that very instructive book by Mr. Darlingknow how thoroughly he has studied and ably dealt with the problem of the in debtedness of the poor zamindars of this province, He has supported his contentions by facts and figures. According to his estimates the totalannu al interest that the samindars pay am_ounts to 13! crores, as compared ..
Mr. President : The resolution moved is- " Thie Council recommends to the Governor in Council that the sale of artificial ghi
(Bana.spati products) be controlled in the province by some suitable legislation. to the effect that the vendors of such ghi and of various preparations· of thiSc ghi shall hang a signboard in bold type saying that the ghi or the preparations. thereof are of a particular variety.''
The question is that that resolution be -adopted. The motion was carried.
[ 23Rn Nova. 1927 p . PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1342
G
'With the annual land revenue demand which is only about 4! orores, These figures are of the date of the publication of the book, and what these figures will be to-day needs only a simple arithmetical calculation, Everybody knows how interest accumulates. A sum borrowed at 6 per cent. compound interest, doubles in twelve years. But where the interest charged is as high as 20, 30 and even 40 per cent. you can yourselves imagine to what a huge
.amount it must have grown to. On the one hand we have 14 crores of in terest to pay and on the other hand the ever-increasing demand for laud revenue. Under these conditions the day, if it has not already arrived, cannot be far off when the zamindars will be totally ruined and there will be nothing for them but to starve. But my fear is that, in some districts at least, that evil day has already dawned. In others during the next few years when the next settlement takes place the situation will be similarly precarious and does not require much imagination to predict that the peasantry of the Punjab will in the near future be a complete wreck. It is, therefore, our imperative duty that immediate steps be undertaken to ameliorate their economic condition.
My resolution is not limited by the claims of any particular district, It has in view the good of the whole of the province, and it is for the province -as a whole that it asks that immediate steps be taken to afford substantially material relief to the zamindars. No doubt it, gives preference to barani and cha.hi areas, but, then again, these barani tracts are not confined to any one part of the province and 1 have made it a point "in particular " to give the words of the resolution, " to give relief to those districts and tracts". I wish that those districts which need speedy attention should be given relief first. I represent tracts which are barani as well 1iahri and some of which are very hard pressed and I do not wish to exclude even those areas which in spite of being irrigated by canals deserve our help.
(The honourable mover being a representative of land-holders who p.-y land revenue to the extent of Rs. 500 or more, the Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain made the following remarks.)
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-d-Husain r Really? Have those who pay Bs, 500 or more land revenue fallen on evil days?
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan: Yes, Sir. It is more so with them (as he was addressing the Revenue Member).
Mr. President : Order,order. The honourable member should address the Chair.
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan : 'I'hose people are worse off. If you read Darling's book you will know from the facts and figures quoted by him that those who pay Rs. 40 land revenue are worse off than those who pay Rs. 30, and those who pay Rs. 100 are still worse off than those paying Rs. 50 and so on. 'I'ho credit of people paying more revenue is greater and hence they possess greater borrowing capacity and consequently some of them are worse off than petty zamindars, and they a.re in ~ tighter noose. I do not however claim special treatment for my constituents over
-other zamindars. They borrow much more ......•. The Hondurahle Mian Sir Fael-i-Husain s And you want all this
money for these people.
RESOLUTION RE UTILISATION OF THE GOVERNMENT OF nmIA'S 1848 REMISSION FOR T,F.VEU,ING DOWN LAND REV.NUE.
CaptaiQ Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan: I want this money for all those who need it the most. I want it for those who p~y Rs. 500 3& revenue as well as for those paying Rs. 10. We have on several occasions heard from the honourable member for Montgomery at a great length, about the unfortunate conditions prevailing in Muzaffergarh, and I will not take your time by repeating them. Perhaps the honourable member for Montgomery will have something more to say about it presently. And my honourable friend Chaudhri Chhotu Ram will no doubt have something to add: about the Southern districts. I shall only deal with Attock. Though what I s:.sid about it during the last session proved only a cry in the wilderness, I will now repeat my cry in the hope that this time it will be more effective; and that steps will be taken to afford relief in cases where considemble hard ship has resulted on account of fresh settlements. Rawalpindi, Attock .and Jhelum are all bara:ni districts and their economic condition is extremely deplorable. These districts constitute the area that supplies the majority of recruits for the armies of India and have made great sacrifices for the Empire during the great war and ma.y be rightly described as "l{urbangah". The percentage of recruits supplied by the Rawalpindi district alone was greater then that of any other district in the Punjab and for the matter of that groaterfhan any other province in India .
Sayad MuhaJDmad Husain : Punjab is the only province that sup plies recruits.
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan : Quite so. When I last had something to sr.y about Attock, the Honourable the Revenue Member's attitude was sympathetic but I believe his hands were tied. Perhaps he found it difficult to unsettle a settled fact and it was impracticable to amend the reports of settlements when once they had been signed. It may have entailed changes in all that lengthy process involving the preparation of khasrae and khataunis. The whole record from top to bottom would have to be upset. 'I'hat is why the Financial Commissioners, when once the report is signed, give the general reply that the best that could be done to that area has been done and nothing else is possible. They are not justified in this. The ·· advantages of giving relief to the poor zamindars should in· variably weigh more with them even if the relief may not be commensurate with the labour and inconvenience involved. My resolution suggests l' very practicable solution of obviating these difficulties. The adoption of my reso lution will supply us with the means whereby we can rectify injustice and wrongdoneto zamindars which may hr..ve been unintentional, even at this late hour, and thus relieve the affected area.s. There are 4 ti.:.hsils of Attock, '.fwo of them 'I'alagang and At tock were assessed during the last settlement at a very high rate as these two were assessed first. The increase in the former was 33 per cent. and the latter 38 per cent. though at fust it was sought to assess an increase of 54 per cent. over the previous assessment itr Attock tshsil. And when 1 raised the issue in this House there wes a huge cry outside that they will not be a.-ble to raise revenue in the other two tahsils compatible with their conditions, m~ any increase over 15 per coot. or 18 per cent. will exceed the limit of 33 per cent. fixed for the district, and when I represented the matter to Government they found, and I azn glad. that they realised the correctness of my statement, that it was not possi-
[ 23RV Nova. 1927 ~ PUNJAB LEGISLA.TIVE COUNCIL. 1344
.- · .. ·,- '·· -- .. _. ·.
•
1345 RESOLUTION RE Ul'ILISA'rION OF THE GOVERNMENT OF iNI)tA's REYI~SION FOR
LEVELLING !JOWN LAND Rli:"\'ENUl!I". ble to effect a similar increase in other two tahsils of Pindigheb and Fatah· jang, and they bad to deal out tardy and unwilling justice to those taheila..
Now, Sir, I ask if Fatehjang and Pindigheb can only pay 15 or 10 per cent. more than the last assessment, how is it that the other tahsils of Attoek and Talagang have been assessed at rates 83 per cent. more as compared with last settlement ? Ii is for this injustice, and others of the kind that may have been done to other tracts in the province that I want a. remedy, and I submit that if it is possible to undo that wrong without the help of my resolution, well and good, do it. If it is not possible or not convenient to take other measures, then take my advice and accept this resolution.
What does my proposal imply. It means that the unexpected windfall of 60 lakhs, remitted by the Government of India if invested at 6 per cent. will, in 10 years, become nearly seven crores. That means that from the annual interest on the amounts of our capital which will be about 40 Iakhs we should be able to afford relief to the extent of 10 per cent. of the total revenue in the province. We can with that amount give relief throughout the province, though we shall have to direct our attention at first on bat~?ti tracts only which dspend solely on rainfall for their harvests, the districts which Government cannot help even if they wanted to and where people cannot afford to take any steps for their own amelioration, We csn, thus without spending any farthing from our revenues or reducing our in come, afford relief to the zamindars to the extent of 20 per cent. or more it} such areas. My resolution seeks to benefit 90 per cent. of the population of the province, though I am not against the welfare of theremaining 10 per cent. living in towns. That is why I have left the remaining 15 per cent. of ihe windfall to them .
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Hasain e How does the balanee come to 15 lakhs?
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan : No I said 15 per eent. not 15 lakhe. I have therefore left more for the people Iiving in towns, and they esn ask for creation of similar funds for them and bring about redaetion ib stamp duties, or give relief to towns by other methods from the income 6{ the fund.
At this stage I wonld like to remove one miseoneeption. A-& th8- Fina.ncia.l Secretary has mentioned in his note, none oi as knows wh~ th& future has in store for us, and what would be the financial position of the province some years hence. I agree with him entirely. To meet such an eventuality, we can always utilise the amount of the fund if there: is • deficit. I wonld go even further and suggest that to avoid any risk what.. soever, Government should place in the fund, I have suggested, only the, surplus, the balance which ma.y be left over after meeting the needs of the province, instead of funding 50 lakhs proposed by me in this resolution. This course would make our financial position much more secure and we would have no difficulty in getting over the vicissitudes of a lean period. I do not suggest that since it would be earmarked for the purpose I have mentioned, it would not be available in time of need to meet extraordinary contingency which may arise in future. I do not wish to retard the development work either. Far from it. I want to accelerate it, and my submission is that we can do' so without curtailing our activities and in addition to creating the-
, o2
[ Captain Sardar Sikander Hayat Khan.] fund I suggest. According to the note presented by the Finance Depart .ment, our ordinary receipts will be more by a erore and 5 Iakhs after about next 3 years, and if we add 60 lakhs remission to this, the increase will be over one erore and 70 l~khs. Now, Sir, when we take into consideration the general tendency on the part of the Fina.nee Department to budget the re :ceipts less than the actuals and expenditure more than what is really possible for the Government to spend, the difference becomes all the more glaring. I know this is done to save us from, what I will call, spending mania. And :even if we take this forecast of revenue and expenditure as correct, even then, _1 submit our past experience shows that there is always a considerable sur plus at the end of the year. I suggest, nay I am prepared to accept even this saving whether it is more or less than 50 lakhs, if it is earmarked for the purpose of materialising my scheme.
. The Honourable Mian Sir Fael-i-Husain e Do you mean the surplus .only"
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan: Yes, Sir, the surplus only whether it is 5 lakhs or less or 50 lakhs or more. From the note handed to us it appears that the money will be used in the development of roads, ex pansion of education and provision of hospitals, etc. This will entail an ex penditure of erores of rupees. Every department had chalked out a 5 years programme for itself and education had mapped out its course for 20 years in advance. This programme was chalked out when we had no idea of this windfall. We have not been able to work up to the programmes and spend ~11 the money originally budgetted. What to say of spending 60 lakhs more. We have not been able to open as many colleges as we wished and start as many dispensaries as we intended. We are really spending less than we budgetted. I, therefore, will be satisfied if the surplus only is set aside to meet ~µe .d~mands of my resolution. You can, thereby, meet even the increased demands of education. But, Sir, I submit we should not insist upon very costly buildings for primary schools. We should see that the quality of education imparted is improved. Educate the primary classes in cMap pars. 'l'each them in the open air. Why spend lakhs on buildings through district boards where .12 annas are wasted and we get returns for 4 annas only, out of every rupee. Then, Sir, what is the good of an elaborate expansion of roads .. The ostensible object is to supply ready means of marketting the agricultural produce of the countryside. But, Sir, there is a P·unjabi proverb:-
\!J~f , .. / \!)llJ' .!:':"' L l:)W,; \!)4k 6.i ~: which means if we have nothing to eat everything else is useless. When we have no grain to eat what can we sell. I hope you will accept my proposal at least in the form of setting aside the annual surplus for the purpose.
Now I shall discuss very briefly the second part of my resolution. I have provided for investment in co-operative societies and mortgage banks with the idea of getting the best out of the relief afforded by the preceding clause of my resolution. So far, I find that co-operative societies have not been able to achieve the object for which they were established except in one or two districts and there even their success has been due to the activities of non-agriculturists. These societies have not been run on sympathetic businesa lines: We should run these co-operative societies in a way that
•
[ 23RD Nova. 1927· PUNJAB LEOISLA.TIVB COUNCIL. 1846
5 P. M.
zamindafa may be able to derive the greatest benefit from them. In our villages people are poor. It is very difficult for them to buy shares. But even if they manage
to pay 8 annas or so at every harvest time, even then it is difficult to get 50 or 100 men who are willing to pay. At the most only 30 or 40 can be per suaded to join. The societies do not give money readily at the time of marriage or death, when it is needed the most. A man dies and his relatives need money. In order to get money from the society, they have to go to the headquarters, while the dead body is awaiting burial, while a sahukar is always at hand and ready to help them. But even if 30 or 40 men join together the central society will only advance them Rs. 200 or so and that only to members. But what will this paltry sum avail when people are in debted to the extent of Rs. 20,000 or more in a single village. The credit societies do not afford them means to get out of the ambit of a money lender's influence. They are only nominal. 'I'he same is the case with the mortgage banks. These mortgage banks cannot advance money without security, for no banking business is possible without that. But the security of a zamindar is his land which under the law cannot be leased or rented for more than 20 years. While the 20 years rental of the land amounts to only Rs. 2,000 his debt often exceeds 4 or 5 thousand rupees, and no bank can advance him sufficient amount to clear his debt when it can only realise half of that, for it is not sound banking. Special steps should be taken, therefore, to remedy this defect. ··----~ I understand that co-operative societies have acheived a large mea"a'ure of success in the districts of Hoshiarpur and Jullundur. But there I am told the non-agriculturist and sahukar element is 30 per cent. of the total membership and they have brought their business acumen to bear on the venture with the resultant success (Hear, hear). 'I'hey know that their money is safe. It brings them 7! per cent. interest and the realisation of it does not require any litigation. I understand steps are being taken to en courage the entry of similar element into these societies in the North-West Punjab as well and it is possible that they may come in elsewhere too. But the success of these societies depends on more money. I know that the first Minister asked for a loan of 10 crores of rupees from the Government of India to make these societies a success. But the Government of India refused to grant that sum for some reason best known to them. It may be that the personality of the Minister had something to do with this refusal. 'I'he result is that these societies are not doing the work for which they are meant, for lack of sufficient funds.
--~ My proposal, therefore, suggests an easy means of removing the burden of
debt-as well as of the revenue. By this measure I am confident that within the next 20 years their economic condition will be much better. Every sound business concern requires a reserve fund. No business undertaking can be safe without a sound and safe reserve. This 50 la.khs will serve as reserve fund to the finances of the province. Let us give this scheme a trial for at least ten years and if it proves successful we can further extend it for another period of 20 years or so when we shall find that we have by very easy means reduced the burden of taxation to practically nothing. We wilt thereby earn the gratitude of our future generations for our foresight and
RESOLtiTION RE UTILlSATION OJ.I' THE GOVERNMENT OF INDU.'S 1347 REl'IIi.SSION FOR LEVELLING DOWN LAND REVENUE.
The question is that that resolution be adopted.
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency (Finance Member) : Sir, as the honourable mover of this resolution has referred to a good many financial matters, before the administrative head in charge of the land revenue department deals with the resolution, there are some observa tions as regards finance which I may be permitted to make. Of course, when you <lea] with important sources of income, the phrase "levelling down" without any limit as to what depths this levelling down may go gives a sort of cold feeling about the heart to a Finance }Iember, because there is no indication as to where this levelling down may lead to. I would venture to suggest to honourable members that the proposition put forward by the honourable mover deserves their deepest thought as to what its consequences 1my be. Honourable members will recollect that land revenue forms nearly a third of our ordinary revenue and that if we are to begin on some vague and indefinite process of levelling it down, we do not know to what point there may be reduction in one of the chief and more important sources of provincial revenue. There are several financial points on which I might dwell such as, for example, whether after a good deal of effort, when we have received a recurring remission of provincial contribution from the Government of India amounting to 60 lakhs we should be right to at once devote 50 lakhs a. year of this sum to one purpose and one class and should not try to benefit the whole province, and every class in the province, but only to benefit certain specified portions of the province. There is also the fact that as a practical measure of relief, if relier can be justified, the interest on this sum every year if applied to this purpose would only result in an infinitesrnal relief to any particular tract ; but I do not pro pose to dwell on these points which will doubtless occur to many honourable members. The point I really wish to make clear is that this statement of examination of financial resources and requirements, which I had the honour of laying before the members clearly shows that if you devote 50 Iakhs of this recurring remission of 60 lakhs to the purpose which the honour able mover desires, there are great many other things which you cannot do. Thali is, you must really choose between devoting this sum to the object which tbe honourable mover of this resolution has just alluded and osher objects connected with beneficient development for which, certainly since I have boon
(Ca plain Sardar Siksndsr Hayat Khan.] prudence. I, therefore, hope that you will agree to give this proposal, which is sure to result in a great benefit to the province, a fair trial. With these words, I commend my resolution to your favourable consideration.
Mr. President s The resolution moved runs: " This Counoil recommends to His Excellency the Governor in Council >-
(~) that a sum of Rs. 50 lakhs, out of the remission made by the Government of India in the annual contribution from this province, be set apart annually for the next ten years for the purpose of creating a special fund with a view to level· ling down the land revenue in the province, and fo particular to give relief to such b,1r,1ni tracts and districts in which tbe prospects of providing irriga tion and other facilities for development are remote ;
(b) that the amount of this fund be invested in the mortgage and co-operative banks, by way of loans to those institutions at six p0r cont. per annum and the income alone front these investments be utilised in the manner indicated in the pre ceding clause."
[23&n NoVB. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOUNOIL. 1848
.ltlilSOLUTION RE UTILISATION OF THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA'S REMISSION
FOR I,EVELLI~G DOWN LAND REVE~UE0
in this House, I have heard members of the different pads of the House repeatedly clamouring. When we were comparing, as we compiled the statement, the new recurring receipts and the new expenditure, we saw that new expenditure on development could be financed with fu.irly small balances in the yea.rs 19'28-29, 1929-80 and 1930-31. The balances were 8 lakhs, 17 · 81 lakhs or roughly 18 lakhs and 13 · 90 lakhs or roughly 14 lakhs. Now imagine, if on the expenditure side 50 lakhs has got to be added or 50 lakhs deducted on the income side, these small figures of balance, which are .all we have got £or unforeseen needs and further development, all that we have got in hand, all disappear and they all become deficits.
Please also turn to the other calculation we made. The other calcula tion was that of comparing the total receipts and the total disbursements expected in the next three years. Now those results were even less favourable. They showed a deficit of 40 lakhs in 1928-29. a deficit of 6 Iakhs in 1929-30 and a balance of 11! lakhs in 1930-31. Therefore, if you give away 50 lakhs for special purpose as the honourable mover desires, in the firnt year 1928-29, you go out to the extent of having a deficit of over 90 lakhs. Next year you go out to having a deficit of 56 lakhs and in the third year instead ol: having a surplus, you again have a deficit of about 39 lakhs, 'I'his makes it obvious that if we agree to what the honourable mover of this resolution says, we must cut out large portions of the schemes of development in state ment A which is contained in this volume, the main expenditure on de velopment programmes, not what we are committed to already, but fresh development programmes. You have to cut down expenditure on jail reforms. You have to cut down expenditure on the contemplated reforms of police. You will have to cut down educational programme. You have to cut down medical programme, decrease or slow down the rural dispensaries scheme and the provincialisation of tahsil hospitals. You have to cut a bit as well on public health and agriculture. You might even have to cut down the programme which is referred to in the second part of this resolution, that is the co-operative programme. ~ow we have got a. good provision of co-operative programme both on the loans side and on the expansion side of the department. Again progress with communications would have to be heavily cut down.
I want to make it quite clear that as far as expenditure is concerned it is really a choice between certain objects on which as far as I know the honour able members of this Council have always been very keen. It is a choice bet ween going slow over these programmes and refusing to give the present generations, into whose laps this windfall has fallen from the Government of India the immediate advantages of the money to spend on the improvement of all classes or funding that in order to benefit posterity in the matter of relief in taxation. If honourable members like to slow down the develop ment programmes for ten years to assist the experiment of the honourable member it will be an interesting decision, but I do not want there to be any doubt of what the honourable mover's proposal really means. It means definitely shutting down programmes for which honourable members have been pressing merely in order to proceed with the honourable member's scheme.
1349
"The unsecured debt of )luzaffargarh is enormcus and ancient. At the first regular settlement, during He eight;ea of the last century, !\fr. O'Bnen found that he could count on his fingers the farmers who were frre frcm de Lt, At the second settlement, the things were nc better. nor have they imprcve d since. What the total of the debt is no enc r a n , ay, but it is agreed by all, who have inquired into it;tbat it bears no relaticn to the land revenue of the debtors, the· mortgaged value of their land, or indeed to their total essete."-(vide page 9}.
Sayad Muhammad Husain [Montgomery (Muhammadan), Rural]: (Urdu): Sir, I have listened to the speeches delivered by my honourable and gallant friend Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan and the Honourable the Member for Finance, and I have come to the conclusion, that though their points of view and mode of work may be different, their goal, however, is the same. Both of them, Sir, desire to develop the resources of the province and to ameliorate the condition of the poor. This indeed is a happy augury for the future of the province, and nobody can take exception to the develop ment and progress of the province. But in considering the development of the province which includes good many things, oie., the improving of roads, building of hospitals, providing educational facilities for the illiterate and liquidating the debts of the poor, one thing should not, however, be lost sight of. The present relative position of each district of the province should be fully taken into consideration and their development should be in pro portion to their backwardness.
Sir, it is a well known fact, that people living in the central districts of the province, e.q., Lahore and Amritsar, are more fortunate and advanced than their brethren inhabiting the North- ,v estern and Southern districts of the province like Gurgaon, Campbellpur and Muzaffargarh. ~'he former enjoy every kind of convenience and facility in possessing good metalled roads, well equipped dispensaries and up-to-date schools and colleges. But it is a pity that such facilities do not exist for their less fortunate brethren residing in places like Muzaffargarh, Gurgaon, Campbsllpur and Hissar. In view of their backwardness, I propose, Sir, that more money, attention and energy should be devoted to ameliorate the pitiable condition of the residents of these districts in general, and of Muzaffargarh in particular, about which I will have to say something here.
Sir, my information about Muzaffargarh is mainly derived from the re ports of Messrs. Andersen, Calvert and my honourable friend Khan Abdullah Khan, the representative of Muzaffargarh, so that if my speech carries con viction in the heart of the Honourable Pinance Member, the credit thereof should not be given to me but to the gentlemen named above. Sir, the booklet which I have got in my hand is very illuminating and instructive. This is the report submitted by Mr. Anderson to Government regarding the conditions prevailing in Muzaffargarh district. It is a memorable document and those who have read it will test,ify to the ability, sympathy and the noble qualities of head and heart of Mr. Anderson. It has done the same amount of good as Mr. Thorburn's book did in Lord Curzon's time. Mr. Anderson, for whom I have great respect and esteem, is one of those Englishmen, who have and are helping in the consolidation of the British Empire in India, and like Dewan Sawan Mall and Akbar, the posterity will cherish his memory. He depicts the miserable plight of the people of the district in the follow ing words:
[281m N OVR. 1927 • PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1350
"Muzaffa.rgarh is sick and it is useless to ask a sick man to stand on his own feet. Re must be supported, fed and taught, for a long time before he can be regarded as f\t a.nd inde1w,ndent."
Mr. President: Order, order. The honourable member should speak to the resolution re. the reduction of expenditure and not wander away from it.
Sayad Muhammad Husain : The reduction of taxation is concerned with this in one way.
Mr. President : Order, order: Please speak to the resolution.
Sayad Muhammad Husain: Will not Government look to the poor, whom, Sir John Maynard, quoting Manu, compared to the clouds which absorb moisture in order to pour it again in the form of life giving showers. I admit that it is a colossal task, and will involve the expenditure of large sums of money, but I will ask the Government to return to these needy people what it has taken in the form of abiana.
Sir, let the Government tax us if it has no money, but. it should also reduce its expenditure. Any how, it must help the unhappy zamindars of the Mnzaffargarh district. I am not asking too much. Rs. 50 lakhs is not a big sum. With His Excellency Sir Malcolm Hailey and the present Exeoutiye Councillors at the helm of affairs, I am sanguine that my appeal
On the same page, while discussing the effect of this colossal indebted ness of peaaants on agriculture, he writes :-
!! The debt is bad for agriculture, since though the ordinary cultivator's land is safe from his creditor, bis produce is not. When a good crop is paid into the bank the " Nrar " takes it a.II as part payment of the interest already due, and the producer gets no more than a subsistence allowance. The farmer hsa thus no money to spend on improving his land, nor has he any incentive to work harder than will sastify his creditor, since it is the latter who gets the fruit of labour." .
Having discussed the effect of indebtedness of the peasants on agricul ture, Mr. Anderson enumerates measures which, in his opinion, will go a long way towards ameliorating the condition of the peasants. They are as follows:-
" (i) By emigration, to roduoo the pressure of land. (ii) By education, to make the people more adaptive and self reliant.
(iii) By co-operation, to provide a less onerous method of financing the land. (iv) By improving the water supply, t.o give more certain produce, and higher standard
of living." This in short, Sir, is the condition of the people of Muzaffargarh. They
are immersed in poverty, a heavy load of debt is crushing them; they are ill-fed; they have no clothes to conceal their nakednesss ; nor a cottage to shelter them from the inclemencies of the weather.
Mr. Darling writes in his book that he visited Muzaffsrgarh while it was in the clutches of relapsing fever. He found the sick people very much ill-dressed and asked them to change clothes but they replied that they had no other clothes except those that they were wearing. Under these circum stances unless Government comes to their rescue immediately, their doom is sealed, and their annihilation is a. foregone conclusion. If another testi mony is needed of their impecuniosity and helplessness, I will quote Mr. Strickland. He writes:-
RESOLUTION RE UTILISATION OP THE GOVERNMENT 01!' INDIA'S · 1851 REMISSION FOR LEVELLING DOWN LAND REVENUE.
[ Sayad Muhammad Husain.] will not fall on deaf ears, and no amount of money will be spared to ameliorate the condition of the people of the Muzaffargarh district. With these few words, Sir, I heartily support the resolution.
Mr. C. M. King (Financial Commissioner): Sir, I rise with some hesi tation, because I am not sure whether I should speak at this stage orlater. The Leader of this House asked me to speak after the first member who had spoken in support of the honourable mover of this resolution. The member who has just sat down began his speech by saying that he supported both the proposer of the resolution and the Honourable the Finance Member. Thi.sis rather an impossible position, because the views of the two seem to be quite opposed. Moreover, throughout his speech I did not hear a. word which could be interpreted as being either in favour of, or against, the resolu tion. He went on to speak on a subject which had no relation, as far as I can see, to the motion before the· House. He told us a great deal about the uplift of Muzaffargarh, which has nothing to do with the motion before the House, she essence of which is that certain reductions should be made in the land revenue. As to what he said about Muzaffargarh I will not follow him through the whole of his speech. I csn only say this that Government has studied :Mr. Anderson's report and intends to give that report most sympathetic consideration. (Hear, hear.)
Before I deal with the honourable proposer's speech I wish to make just one remark about a matter which hurt me somewhat at the time the proposer made it. He spoke about the injustice with which his district had been treated in the matter of land revenue assessment .....
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan: I did not mean to say, Sir ..• Mr. President: Order, order. Mr. C. M. King: I took the honourable member's expression down
Yery carefully. He said that his district was one which had been treated with be-insafi, I think that will be found in the records of this House. But I am quite sure he did not realise the implication of that expression, otherwise he would not have used it. Anyone who knew the late M:r. Barry and who is aware of the great sympathy, the great patience with which he approached his task in the settlement of the district of Attock, will know and realise that to suggest that he was unjust to them or to the people is to suggest something which is quite untrue. I am quite certain that the honourable member never intended the expression to be applied in that way. There was, however, the possibility that there might be some mis conception .in future, and in order to prevent, that misconception I have thought it necessary to allude to the matter. The misconception will he prevented by the disclaimer which I am glad the honourable mover has now made.
Now, I come to deal with the essence of the honourable mover's speech so far as it deals with the Land Revenue Department. 'I'he Honourable Member for Finance has already dealt with the speech as far as it relates to fuut.ncial issue. My task is to show and to explain to this House whether it is possible or not to comply with this measure 01 relief which he desires. 'rhe resolution as worded and as explained by the mover in hill speech is intended ostensibly to relate to the whole province, but tho mover has
[23Rn Nova, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1852
-- --- --- . .__;, ,4_-
explained that what he really meant was that it should specially apply t.o those parts· of the province where owing to unfortunate circumstaaees there was no canal irrigation and where agriculture was exceedingly prsaarioua or at any rate not as certain rn in other p vrts of the province where more happy condisio-is prevail. No ;v I will assume for the purpoH of this argu ment that he does not really i itead to apply any measure of relief to those districts which receive canal irrigation, or which even if they do not receive canal irrigation are yet so happily situated as regards rainfall tlnt in nine ye.1...:s out of ten their harvests are assured. "the districts he has in mind are the south-eastern districts of the province a..1r.l the western and the north western districts. 'i'he south-eastern districts have an extraordinarily precarious rainfall sid the north-western and western districts have not much summer rainfr.ll imu in most cases are cut off from canal jrrigation. I have ascertained what portio .. 1 of the land revenue of the province is col lected from these two areas, the south-eastern area and the north-western and the western area. 'l'he districts concerned are, in the south-east chiefly those of the A1ubllla Di visio.i ,nJ in the north-west those of the Rawalpindi mid llfoltan Divisioas. '.rlrn total land revenue which is levied on these two areas is about 160 lakhs of rupees per annum ; and if the whole of the
· income from the fund which the honourable member desires to establish was applied to relieving, as he calls it, or lessening, perhaps he moons the land revenue in those areas, the remission would amount to just about three annas in the rupee of the land revenue now assessed in those areas. Now the question is, first, is that remission justified, and, secondly, is it necessary? Now, let us take a district in tho south-east of the province which has a most precarious rainfall and practioaily no canals and no means of sinking wells owing to great depth of water and where in many cases the water is saline. '.ra.ke the Hissar district. The Hissar district pays a land revenue of 10 lskhs -of rupees, but that is spread over SO!Ile 27 lakhs of acres of cultivation ; so that the laud revenue falls at the unusually low rate of under six annas per acre all round, Now, no one who ha'! ,my knowledge or the prolues whieh is derived fro.n ,,gricr\lture, when tt,m~ i:; :>.:iy produce ~.t all, c·:\'1 supposa that six annas per acre is a burden which ean be felt. It is the lowest land revenue rste in the province and it has purposely been fixed low because of the exceedingly precarious conditions in that area. Moreover not only ii; the land revenue rate low, but there are special rules iu force in that district, as there are in other adjacent districts, under which suspension
-0£ land revenue, when there is any serious failure of rainfall, is part of the land revenue system of the district, so that if there is any likelihood at alt of the land-owner or the agriculturist not being able to get from his land any return in a particular year, he is given liberal suspensions. If it happens, over a cycle of years-for more than 2 years or 8 years or some times more than four yea.rs-that it is impossible to collect the land revenue suspended, our rules provide for the remission of the suspended land revenue, such part of it, that is to say, ,}S it has not been found possible to collect. If you take account of the land revenue which has been thus remitted, even this low rate
-of six annas per acre is further reduced and the probability is that for· the Hissar district, as a whole, for a cycle of years-:or the whole series of settle ment-the land-owner does not pay more than 5! annas or so per aore of the cultivated area. That, Sir, is the position in the Hissar district. Yet,
REBOLUTIO~ RS UTILISATION OF THE GOVllRNltlEINT 01!' INDIA'S 1853 RE}l(IS fION POR LEVELLING DOWN LAND RBVENUB.
~---'·------ -- -- .
[Mr. C'. M. King.] according to the honourable the mover of the resolution, if a msesnre of relief is to be granted anywhere in the province it ought to be granted to th e Hissar district, and therefore he would further reduce the land revenue by what it amounts to about 8 annss in the rupee and would come down to an other enna so that instead of 5-! annas per acre which is what the land reve nue payer has to pay in the Hissar district, he would reduce it to, say, 4-! annas per acre. I challenge anyone to say that 5! annas is an excessive rate of land revenue or that it should be reduced to 4! annas.
I pass now to the other extremity of the province, the area with which the honourable mover of the resolution is chiefly concerned, namely, the Attock district. The figures as far G.S the Attock district is concerned, ant below what they ougbt to be because tl1ey are not the figures of the latest settlement. 'Ibo actual figures are 7t lakhs for the whole district and the cultivated area in thst district is very nearly 11 lakhs of acres. Therefore,. there also the rate raid comes to something like 12 annas, en snna an acre r,ll rovr.d. I would remark tlat that 12 annas an acre is reached only by including in the cultivation the whole a.rn .. which is irrigated by wells where the lar.d revenue comes to 5 or G rupees per acre. The normal land revenue I hope the honourable member will correct me if I am wrong-I think the normal average revenue for the Attock district on bmani lands is some where in th neighbourhood of 8 annas per acre of cultivation.
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan: It is about 12 annas.
Mr. C. M. King : Eight annas per acre for cultivation ; that is per cultivated area, not 8 annas per matured acre. Here again if we are to follow the honourable mover's rule we shall have to give a reduction of about li annas, reducing the 8 annas to 6l annas. Again, I say that this reduction is quite unnecessary. If you judge the pitch of the land revenue by any of our standards, you will see that it comes to much below the standard rate prescribed for land revenue assessments. It is even below the rate used now in all our new assessrneuts--one-third of the net assets.
Then, Sir, Lwas not quite able to follow the honourable mover in this method of granting relief. It was very vague, I think. He seems to think tla.t all that you have to do is to go about the province and pick out people whose land revenue is thought to be high and grsnt relief in much the same way f,S relief is giv('l". to an importunate teggat. I do not know whetl er it was bis real intention or not ; if so, whether it was bis intention tlat the question whether relief should be piven was to be considered yrar by :year, or to be given once and for all. On tl:at joint, I am by r.o mear.s clear as to wht the meaning of the honourable mover was. From what he said, I judge that bis intention is tl at every yeP,r tl: e conditions of every one of the districts sl:ould le considered and tl:M, out of this income of 80 Iakhs of rupees as much shall Ee allowed to any particular district as the authorities. for the time l.oing think tlat the district deserves on account of the ra1ti cular conditions j.revailing therein. If that is really tl.e intention of the honourable mover of the resolution, I need not point out to {bis Council, how disastrous the result will be. Here you have a. sum of SO lakhs of rupees. intended to be devoted year by year to the relief of land revenue payers, Who is going to be the ultimate arbiter to decide whether relief is to be given
[23-RD Nova. 1927 •. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1354
or not? It is impossible th\t the Deputy Co.n nissioner or even the 'I'ahsildar can keep that close supervision over the distribution of this bounty which wonld ensure that it should rea rh the proper quarters. All that can be clone would be to see for the whole of a tahsil or district that the land revenue .a noucting to so 1U uh, s:1,y J.e.1dy a lakh of rupees, has to be remittsd in tba.t p,• ti:rnla.:· y,Hr, the luk'.1 of rupees coning out of this Innrl. Think what t;:i•t will 10:1.LL In the first place eve:y one will w.nt to get the benefit -of th1t re niasi ir, whether the rmn ow.is 010 thnsmd r\'.lre, of lan.l or whe the, he ow .is 2) or HD aeres of land, it m.rtters little ; he will claim his relief in ex sctly the s.cna w.vy. Is th1t re<1l\y the intaatio i of the ho io rr.ibla mover of the resolution ? Does he re vlly think th·,t the. m sster, the lord of many acres is to receive relief in the s:rua way ,\S the humble man who follows the p!o1gh s ad who get.s what living he cm o.it of 39 or 40 ~~rea of b1.Jra·ii 1'.i.,1la ? H that is not his intention, then who is to decide ? Who is to be the j udge as to when ,l person is entitled to relief and when a person is not en· Wle.:i to relief ? Du33 not t.h3t it3Jlf ope i the road, op ri the wa.y to vistas of corruption ? Dv:13 he revlly wish to intro Iuce th)t st1t0 of affairs into his own district ? Does he really wish to give such a handle to subordinate officials? I can hardly believe he does. lf it is not intended by the honour-able mover of the resolution that relief should ba given in this W<iY, then there is only one other way in which it is possible to give this relief. I'hst way is by making a. per.n ment reluetion in the land revenue of the district which it is intended to relieve. 'J.":ut is to say, supposing a lakh of 1"<1pees is ~Hot~ ted to At:;o;k <lisbriJt we w . .n'.d have o.ie lakh or rupees cut off fron the Iand revenue of that district every year, for the next 3J or 40 years. ·that· is the only possible w,ly in which his proposed method of relief can be a.ppliei witho.i!; causing the very greatest d_nger of_ mslversstion on. the part of subordinate officials. If we do that, 1f we decide to reduce the land revenue of the district, th!l.t is Atto'.lk, it practically means this : that we shall have to have a new land revenue settlement, You cannot distribute the assess merit-you cannot bachh the jam,a over a large district and involving such large amounts .....
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan: Is there no time limit to speeches in this Council ? ·
Mr. President: The honourable member may proceed with his speech.
t • i~Mr. C. M. King: I was saying, Sir, that I was a liWe doubtful whether the ho aourabls member intended that there should at once be a new settle ment of the Abtock .Iistric]. I am quite sure thlt he would not want such a thing, and yet without .a. new a He3sm:nt _I do ~o~ see how it is possible for us to distribute this large amount ot relief which he desires should be given. 'I'here is one other point I can m rke. I'ha honourabls mo ver oi the resolution has talked about the uselessness of roads. I think he said why have schools, why have roads, why have any of these other rn3thod.a of improvement. I will deal only with the question of roads. Does the honourable mover of the resolution realise what tho effect is on a zamindar of having a. good road, a good. metalled road from his horna, or from near his home to the closest -market ? Does he realise the great lesseninz in the cost of carriage which results whe.n you substitute bullock-cart-boru;.tra:ffio
RESOt.UTION RS UTILISATION 011' THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA'S 1855 RE11ISSION .FOR LEVELLINO DOWN LAND REVENUE.
148 PLC-4H-12·12·21-SGPP Lahore.
6P.M.
[ Mr. C. M. King.] for a camel-traff'c and if he does not realise it, may I point out to this Bouse what the actual result is? If you reduce the cost of carriage for the average distance to a market by only half an anna per maund (this is a very low rate of reduction when compared with what you, in many cases actually will get)-if yon assume that the produce is 8 maunds an acre, then your reduction in the cost of carriage amounts to four annas per acre-four annas per acre on the cropped area or three- annas per acre on the cultivated area. In other words the result will be that you will give the zamindar ex·
actly the same relief which the honourable member suggests should be given in the iorrn of direct
remission oi taxation, namely, three annas per acre. I do not know whether that point was fully realised. I have just got one word to say and I shall finish. 'Ihe mover of this resolution has said that he wants to relieve these dry areas where there is no canal irrigation. I do not know whether he realises the extent to which the policy of keeping the land revenue on baran« and £,/. ahi lands has been followed lately. (Hear, hear.) I will, therefore, just tell this House that in 5 or 6 settlements that I have had to deal with lately, I have deliberately reduced, with the full consent of Governtnent, the well rates and the Laran» rates on the land which does not receive canal irrigation. (Hear, hear.) That is to say, we have in a sense anticipated the honourable mover in the relief which he desires to give. We have actually in the course of our settlement operations levelled down, as he calls it, but we have levelled down according to certain rules, We are doing this levelling whenever we get a new settlement in operation and whenever levelling down is neces sary and it must be remembered that we have new settlements going on from year to year according to a fixed programme. That is the position and I hope that what I have said ought well satisfy the honourable mover of this resolution that we really are not callous to the requirements of the poorer zamindars and that we are really- doing for them all that we possibly can do, and that to adopt his method will not in the long run be of any benefit to the zamindar. •---The Council then adjourned till 2 P.M. on Thursday, the 24th Novem
ber 1927.
l>'U:fiJAB LJWISLATIVE COUNCIL, [ 28:RD N OVR, 1927. 1856
B
llf UHARRAM RIOTS, l\fuL'fAN,
*822. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava: Will the Honourable Member 'fot Finance please state--
(a) the number of Hindus and Muhammadans respectively challaned under section 188, Indian Penal Code, for disobedience of the order promulgated by the District Magistrate, Multan, under section 144, Criminal Procedure Code, after the recent Muharram riots at Multan;
(b) the number of those who were convicted; (c) if it is a fact that practically all the police officials that reported
against the accused in such oases were Muhammadans ? If not, will the Honourable Member please state in how n+any. cases the report was made by the Muhammadan police officials ? ·
. The· HoDOGtahle Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: Enquiries are 'being made and the result will be communicated to the honourable m.embez in due eonrse,
(b) Eleven cases were registered of which five were put into court. (c) 0£ the five cases put into court, one was discharged in the com
mitting court while the accused in the remaining four were acquitted in the . sessions court,
6 5 Muhammadans
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANS\YERS. 1\IuHARRAM RIOTS AT MULTAN.
*821. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava : Will the Honourable Member for Finance please state-
(a) the number of Hindus and Muhammadans who were killed OI' injured in the recent Muharram riots at Multan;
(b) the number of cases that were challaned to the court and of those that were reported as untraced ; and
(c) the results of the cases challaned in the court ? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency :
Killed. lnfured. (a) Hindus 7 18
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL~ 2Nn SESSION OF THE 3Ro PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
Thursday, the 24th November 1927. THE Council met at the Council Chamber at two of the
-clock. Mr. President in the Chair. ..__
Rij.,, ... . 5 pri. dje1ll (iu), 10 ,, · ,, , ..
l\i:rnt.e Wimls Family Wards
l\IAYO HOSPITAL. LAHORH]. ILu B.-luArHm HAM SARAX Dxss B1.ocK.
Indian Private and Family lV ards. 1. · '[he Indian Private and Familv Wards are open to Indians on,
payment of the following eharges i-> •
HAM SAHAc{ DAs \V ARD, }Luo Rm-iPrTAL.
*825. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava : Will the Honourable the Ministe» for Local Self-Government be pleased to state the income derived by the institution from the patients admitted into the Ramsaran Das ward in the· Mayo Hospital from October 1926 to September 1927, the expenses in· curred by the institution for them and the authorised income derived by the. physicians and surgeons of these wards during this period ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (1) The income derivod from the patients treated in the Ram Saran Das Block, Mayo Hospital during. the year from lst October, 192n to 30th September, 1927 was Rs. 20,055.
(2) The expenses incurred by the institution amounted to about Rs •. 33,000.
(3) The physicians and surgeons of these wards derive no authorised income from them. The scale of fees for medical officers' attendance and the Reale of fees for operations of various kinds charged to patients accommo dated in the wards are contained in the rules of the Indian Private and Family Wards of which a copy is lair! on the table.
'
ATTE{DANrn OIJ' l\fEmcAL CoLLEOE STUDENTS IN PRIVATE FAMILY WARDS.
*824. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava : Will the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government please state as to whether Medical College students attend to the patients admitted into the Private Family Wards. (Ramsaran Das ward and others) of the Mayo Hospital or not?
Hnot, are these wards of any help to medical education? The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) and (b) No.
·'
SOCIAL OR RELIGIOUS PROCESSIOX IN MULTAN.
*823. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava: Will the Honourable MembeJt for Finance please state if after the Muharram riots at Multan any in· structions were issued by the Government to the local authorities for per· mitting or disallowing the taking of social or religious processions? If so. will he please lay a copy of such instructions on the table?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : No special instructions were issued to the local authorities at Multan.
[24T:r.r NovR.1921 .. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1858
-··----· ------ ---- ---
~
1 i i l l , l l
" -
Vis,iting Ji'ees- Income up to Bs. 150 per mensem _ Nil. Income from.Rs. 151-250 per mensem 5 .per diem.
'Iucome from Rs, 251-500 per mensem 10 Income from Bs, 501 and upwards If
" . These fees may be reduced at the discretion of the Medical; Officer iri::
attendance on · the case . . · · · [ • • . .,. ~ • r ": - . .r • •
~ .bT?tt.-The a-hove ecales of fees shall not apply to any person menti&ned in:Govertune t; • India, Ho~e Department, Medical. N otiticatjon No •. 97.•; dat~d ,he 17th Nr>v.eJJl~ .:w20 •. n
It i!> left in all cases to arrangement between Medical Officer and patient what the actual foe should be.
Above Rs. 750 per mensem fees for operations will b1:1 left for private arrangements between the Medical Officer and the patients.
Rs.
.. 500
,, 150
50 maximum.
Free.
Operation Ji'ees- Persons whose income does not exceed Rs. 150
per mensem Persons with a monthly income of Rs. 151-250
per mensem Persons with a monthly income of Rs. 251-500
per mensem Persons with a monthly income of Rs.
501-750
Rs.
First four rooms in the Indian Private Ward are reserved for persons whose mode of life is European, irrespective of their race or creed. The charge for them is Rs. 6-S-O. •
The charges of Rs. 5 and Rs. 10 per diem for the Indian Private and Family Ward» respectively may be reduced at the discretion of the Medical Superint~nd ent.
2. The daily charge includes the cost of diet according to the Hospital scale. When alcoholic stimulants and patent medicines and vaccines are prescribed patients must provide these at their own expense. This also applies to articles of food not included in the Hospital dietry, as well as to medical comforts such as jellies, meat, essences, biscuits, etc.
8. Stimulants must be made over to the charge of the House Surgeon, who will see that they are administered at the prescribed hours and in the prescribed quantities. Patients are not allowed to treat visitors to any form of spirituous liquors.
4. The scale of Medical Officers' attendance fee and the scale of fees of operations of various kinds charged to patients accommodated in the private rooms are as folkiws : -
1859 STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
------------
RA1 SAHIB LALA JAMNA DAs versus Bonde 1'\Iatram CASE.
*828. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava: Will the Honourable the Finance ·){ember be pleased to state the amount spent by Government on the Rai · Wiib.· Lala. Jaillna. DM ver8-«,s Banik Matr().m. case '}
TM Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorenc, : The attention . QC t.be ~ura:~~le, member is in~i\ed to t~ flUSW.et gi'\te.n to eouooil: q~:n. _No .. 2$47 aaked · by La.la Moha.a La.I. ~ba.tnagar m the last ·rn:>uncil. · · ·
FAMILY WARDS IN MA.YO HOSPITAL FOR EYES, ETC., CASES.
*827. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava : Will the Honourable the Minister ·for Local Self-Government be pleased to state whether there are anv Family Wards attached to the Mayo Hospital for eye, ear, nose and throat
-casss ? The HQDourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : There are no l'amilv
·wa.rds in the Mayo Hospital, Lahore, specially reserved for eye, ear, nos'e . and throat cases but such cases are admitted to the Family Wards like other eases both medical and surgical.
INDIAN FAMILY WARDS, MAYO HOSPITAL.
*826. Dt. Gopi Chand Bhargava: Will the Honourable the Minister. for Local Self-Government be pleased to state whether there is a proposal to throw open the Indian Family Wards in the Mayo Hospital for cases -0f private medical practitioners also? If so, when will it take effect?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : Such a proposal was -eonsidered by Government eighteen months ago but it was not found practicable to adopt it.
'[Hon. Malik Firoz Khan, Noon.] 5. Patients occupying private wards within 24 hours of admission
pay 10 days' fees in advance. No exception can be made to this rule and patients who fail to comply with it, will be transferred to the general wards. Fees are payable to the Rouse Surgeon, who will furnish a receipt for the amount paid. ·
6. Patients on regular diets are supplied with two meals daily which will be served at hours fixed by the .Medical Superintendent and no patient is allowed to have food of any kind except that ordered on the bed-head tickets. Patients' friends are earnestly requested to observe this rule strictly, as fatal results have followed its neglect, ·
7. One private servant is allowed to be with each patient whilst in Hospital.
8. Except in urgent cases the House Surgeon of these wards must not allot rooms to patients ,vitbout sanction of the Medical Superintendent.
The admission of all urgent cases should be notified to the Medical ·Superintendent during office hours (10 A.M. to 4 P.111.).
'
PUNJAB. LEG-IBLATIVE COUNCIL. [24TH Nova.1927. 1660•
1Page 1298 !in.le. 2Page 1299 ante.
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The attention of the honourable member is invited to the answer given to 2question No. 801 starred. N" o graduates have yet been appointed as Assistant Superini;en dents in the .Iail Department. H may be observed that the majority of the graduates who have applied have applied for the post of Deputy Superinten dent and not for the post of Assistant Superintendent,
*832. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava : Will the Honourable the Finance· Member be pleased to sti'.,te the number of graduates on the waiting list of candidates for posts of Assistant Superintendentship of jails and how many of them have received training and how many have been appointed so far?
CA:-rornAn,s I<'OR POSTS OF Ass1TANT ScamrNTENDENTS OF JAILS,
*831. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava: Will the Honourable the Financ, Member be pleased to state whether any Sadr Qanungos, Head Ver· nacular Clerks and Qammgos have been recruited to the jail service or
not?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : 'I'he answer is. in the affirmative as regards the first two classes of officials.
RECRCTITMEXT FOR ,TAU, SERVICl!l.
RECRUITMENT TO JAIL DEPARTl\iE:'lrT.
*830. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state the number of Extra Assistant Commissioners, Il'ahsildars and Naib-Tahsildars who have been recruited to the Jail Depart ment?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : Twelve Extra As~istant Commissioners as Superintendents, 8 'I'ahsildars as Deputy Superintendents and 5 N aib-Tahsildars as Assistant Superintendents. Included among these 'l'ahsildars and Naib-Tahaildars there are some Head Vernacular Clerks and Sadr Kanungos.
·*829. Dr. Gopi Chand Bbargava: Will the Honourable the Finance 'Member be pleased to state the amount spent on the Jail Enquify Com mission?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The attention of the honourable member is invited to the answer given to Council 1question No. 799 (starred).
EXPENDITURE ON JAIL ENQUIRY COMMISSION.
,1@61 STARR11D QUESTIONS ·AND ANSWERS,
---------------- -·· --
Page 1299 ante.
PROSCRIPTION 01<' NEWSPAPERS.
*835. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state----
(a) the names of the newspapers whose issues were proscribed by the Government during the last communal riots at Lahors ;
(b) the reasons for doing so ; (c) whether it is a fact that the issue of 19th }lay 1927 of the Partap
Daily was proscribed and all copies taken a.way by the police; (d) whether it is a fact that the office of the Paruvp was again
searched on 24th May 1927 for the issue of 19t.h Ma.y 1927 and no issue was found ;
(e) the reasons for this double search for one issue? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (r.i) A statement
is attached. (b) In the interests of public security,
PROGRESS OJ;' ,TAIL REFORMS.
*834. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state the progress made by the Government in introducing reforms in the jails according to the recommendations of the Jail Enquiry Commission since March last ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: 'l'wo statements were placed before the Standing Committee of the Legislature on jails in September last showing (i) the progress made with the execution of the orders passed on the Punjab Jail Committee's report and (ii) tho plans and estimates made and approved for works connected with the improvement of jails. These statements dealt with what has Leen done from the date of the Gov ernment resolution on the Jail Committee's report, i.e., the end of May l 926 up to the end of ,Tuly 1927. If these statements will suffice for the honourable member's purpose I will supply them to him; but if he desires information only for the period from March 1927 to the end of October 1927 the requisite information will have to he collected.
INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF TRAINED ORADUAT.AES ON THE CADRES OF SUPERINTENDENTS, ETC. OF JAILS.
*833. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state as to whether the Government is thinking of increasing the number of trained graduates on the cadre of Superintendents, Assistant Superintendents, Deputy Superintendents of jails or not? If so, when; if not, why not ?
The Honourable Sir Goeffrey deMontmorency : Superintendents of Jails are at present being recruited only from officers of the Punjab Civil Service. As regal'ds Deputy and Assistant Superintendents the attention
. of the honourable member is in vite I to the answer given to Council 1q ues tion No. 800 starred.
[24TH N OVR, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL,
--~ ..
For an article headed " Gai ke qurbani aui Hindu.on k!J, ihtijaj ; Yeh tamam ihtijaj 'lagko aur behwia hri,i ; A.ryon ke bazurg gae bi goaM kkate th~."
For an article headed " Lahore Shehr wick ,lfua. salmanan da raj: Sikh ate Hindu police dt samne kohe ,ia rake lw,in ; Sikh.an te Hindua11 & khun d.ia ii nadian chal payyan; H 1m 711JUD shahi nun Hindustan chhad Ice lambke 1io jana chahida hai ; Khalsa qaum di an shan qaim rakhne. da sa,man a giya; Gurdware au manw sakht khatre wick han ; Khalsa qaum nun apnl rakhya kriran lai hushiyar ate khabardar ho jana chahida Tuti ; Akali dal nun jhat pat u pase dhiyan dena chahida bal:"
For a.n article headed " Hinduon ka wafarJ Mr. Oghvie ke FM; Deputy Commissioner, Lahore, ka jawab aur itiraf lee police ne gu'lldo11 ki fasa<l ke dinon t711ln imdad M."
For an article headed " Bakraid par ek karor gaen zibah ki jaen ; Gae m,en sal,/.ar karor devt/J hain inhen mitane ka savab bM hasii Tioga : Ek ishtaal an1ez Mu-ssalm1,n ka s!vLrarat ame.s i'lan."
For an article headed, "Lahore men Mus.tal manon ptx;r Hindw:m. t:1,1tr S-ikhmi, ka qa.tlantJ hamla ; Tin ,lfUllsalman shahid, char zakhmi: JlfusBalm,:inon ke bazaron men h2rtal ,· punish· able under section 153-A, Indian Penal Code.
For two articles headed, respectively :--(1) "Khuridam-i-lJ.luluimrnad (fidah? ruhi) 1)(1,f' aghyar ki y1ira.sh jari hai; Ek MUlllim auf' .shahid hua, do zakhmi hue, ek ki tang tori ga•• wb ee pahle Mussalman qai,d hua ; Hinrw.. Muslim lidron. ne duka·nen khulwain; Mus salrnan razi ho gai ; Hindu hat par qafra rahe: ShPli,r par ala-i-parwaz urta raha ; a'ltr Hiwlllhl& ki imdadi Oommittee ban gai." (2) "Scmalt,1.11 College aur Khalea School ke tulaba ki mafru.za garifta.ri ; Hindu boarding ki talashi. : Kw adalton ka Hindu parwar raooyyah; Mua,aZ rnanon ka ijla8; aur Muslim Imdadi OommiUee ka qiyam aur mu.zl·umin se izhar-i-hamdartli.u
For an article headed " Lahore men qiyamar+ Sughra ; N ehatle M·ussalmanon. ka qatal-i-am : Siva ji ki barsi kis t2reh manai gai ; Tin 11wll.id, char ma.jruh; Sanghalhan ki pahli Lahori qiat : Sare shehr ki 11lussalm2ni rlukanen band ; 1limsalmanon ke lahu ka bbao pani se bhi & a8ta L-' » 11,ui.
• . Issue No. 126, volume IX, dated 2nd June 1927.
Issue ~o. lll, volume VIII, dated 19th May 1927.
Issue No. 106, volume VII, dated 11th .!\fay 1927.
Issue No. 1, volume II, dated, 9th May 1927.
Special Supplement volume Ko. 9, dated 9th May Hl:1-7.
Issue No. 25, volume I. dated 5th 1-fav
.. 1927. .
7 Biyamt
Parlap
.5 Bande Matram
4 Sa,:,ha Dhan· dora:
Siyasat
Inqilab
l Zamindar . • Issue No. 97, volume III, dated 5th llay 1927.
The article on account of which proscrip tion was ordered.
Date of issue. ~Serial Name of the LN paper
0• proscribed.
2
(c) Yes. (d) Yes. (e) Government is not prepared to state any reasons.
STARRED QUES'tlONS .um ANSWERS,
*837. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava : Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state-
(a) whether any building was built for the residence of the punitive police at Kala Kh,itai ; if so, when was it erected and what was the amount spent on it ;
(b) what amount was realised from the people for constructing the houses;
(c) where the police people lived before the houses were erected and whether they paid any rent;
(d) whether it is a fact that only .Rs. 1,600 have been paid to the contractor so far and whether anything more is to be paid to him;
(e) whether the building material has been sold for Rs. 120 only j. and if not, for what amount ;
(D whether the Government proposes to refund the balance· of this amount to those from whom it was realised or not; and
(g) whether a.ny exemptions were made in the matter of realisation of this tax and if so, who were exempted?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The information asked for by the honourable member is not available in the office. En quiries am being made and a reply to the question will be sent as early as,
._J.Ossible.
BUILDIKG FOR THE RESIDENCE OF THE PUKITIVE POLICE, KALA KHATAI.
PUNITIVE Poiroa Posr A'D KALA KlrATAI.
•836. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava: Will the Honourable the· Finance Member be pleased to state-
(a) whether any punitive police was posted at Kala Khatai, tahsil, Shahdara, district Sheikhupura, from the year 1922;
(b) the period for which it was posted; (c) the amount spent on it; (d) the amount realised from the public living in the village; (e) whether any person, e.g., Government servants, Government
pensioners and any other people were exempted from payment ] (!) the criterion for fixing the tax; (g) whether all the people paid the tax, if not, what the Government
proposes to do in that matter?
. The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: The information asked for by the honourable membor is not available in the office. Enquiries are being made and a reply to the question will be sent as early as possible.
[24TH ~ OVR. 1927 •- l'VNUB LllGIBLATIVE C.OU_NOIL.
tpage 1000 ante.
LAHORE llfuNICIPAL Coll!}UTTEE.
*840. Dr, Gopi Chand Bhargava : Will the Honourable the. Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state=-
(a) when the last Lahore municipal committee was dissolved; (b) when the new elections took place; (c) when they were gazetted;
THE PREVEXTIO:\' OF CRCELTY TO AKIMALS ACT.
*839. Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava : Will the Honourable the Minis ter for Local Self-Government be pleased to state (1) the districts where the Prevention 0£ Cruelty to Animals Act has been applied ; (2) the number of Inspectors working under this Act; and (3) the number of cases launched under this Act during the fast one year ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (1) The Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act has been extended to all municipalities and can· tonments in tho Punjab and to the notified area of Chiohawatni.
(2) The Act is enforced in those areas to which it has been extended by tho police. In addition. the powers of a police officer under the Act have been conferred upon two sanitary inspectors employed by the municipal committee of Simla. The Local Government has no information as to the number of inspectors employed by branches of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelt.y to Animals,
(3) The attention of the honourable member is invited to entry No. 29 in part B of statement V appended to the Annual Report on the Adminis tration of Criminal Justice iu the Punjab during the year 1926.
BEGA. R.
*838. Dr. Gopi Chanel Bbargava : Will the Honourable the· Revenue Member be pleased to state-
(a) whether begar is still prevalent in the villages of the Punjab. or not;
(b) whether begar system is against the policy of the Government or not;
(c) whether the Government has received unanimous resolutions of the Valmikis of thirty villages in Lahore district urging an impartial non-official enquiry into this important ques· tion; ·
(d) whether any action has been taken so fa.r and what the Govern· ment proposeB to do to stop it in future ?
The Honourable Mian Si1· Fazl-i~Husain: As pointed out in reply to a similar iquestion No. 355, asked by Baizada Hans Raj in July last, the word bega,· has several meanings and until the honourable member defines exactly the meaning he here attributes to tho word I regret I cannot provide an exact answer.
1965:- STABBED QIJiE&'IIONS A.ND ·A.NaWERS,
(c) Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs were gazetted on the 27th August 1927; ·the Christian seat was notified on the 15th September 1927.
(d) 21st September 1927.
(e) 30th September 1927 and 10th October 1927. (J) Election of members to the various sub-committees took place
on the 18th October 1927 and the President made his nominations to the sub-committees on the 21th October 1927. The sub-committees wers
-~bus fully constituted on the 24th October 1927. (g) With the exception of the Gardea Sab-Co.n.nittea the Chairman
of the other sub-committees wore elected 0:1 the 28th October 1927. (h) Yes. (i) No plans- were samtioned till the 1111::dng- he\t 0:1 the 14th November
1927, when 223 plans were dealt with and 185 sanctioned. (j) 256 plans were provisionally rejected, out of which 223 plans were
-dealt with by the committees on the 14th November as stated above. (k) Yes, .for the maintenance of essential services, under the authority
-of the Deputy Commissioner and President. (Z) No.
. . 26th, 27th and 28th July 1927.
13th and 14th August l927 . •
Hindus and Sikhs
Christians
_[Dr. Gopi Chand Bhargava.] (d) when the president was elected ; (e) when the vice-presidents were elected; (J) when the sub-committees were formed ; 0) when the chairmen were elected; (h) whether any general meeting of the committee has been ~eld
after the publication in the Gazette of names of the municipal commissioners except for elections ;
(i) whether ~ny building plans were accepted during this period ; (j) the number of plans which were rejected owing to the fact that
there was no regular committee to dispose them of; (k) whether any work was done and any money was spent during
this period between gazetting the municipal commissioners and formation of sub-committees ; if so, under what au thority;
(l) whether the Government interested itself in the election of a particular member as president of the committee?
The Honourable Malik Fitoz Khan, Noon : (a) 27th August ~1927.
(b) The new elections took place as under :-
Muslims 18th, 19th and 20th April 1927.
[24TB Novn. 1927• PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOUNOlL. :1866
~ : :
1Page 1200 (late,
RURAL GAMES.
*8t3. Sardar Sahib Sardar Fateh Singh: (i) Will the Honour· . able the Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state-
(a) if it is the intention of Government to encourage rural games in rural areas ;
(b) whether it is l.lr t,ct that during the last financial ye ir it was the intention of Government tom ike grants to district boards for this purpose ?
(ii) If so, will the Honourable Minister be pleased to lay a state ment on the table showing by districts the amounts of grants it was proposed to make also showing the amounts of grants actually msde ?
The Honourable Malik Firo.z Khan, Noon: (-i) (a) Yes. (i) (b) & (ii) A copy of a letter on the subject issued by the .:'.\'.[inistry
-of Education in 19-25 and of it.; enclosures is laid 0;1 the table. It will be seen that Government announced thll.t they would be happy to receive well-considered proposals for the creation of district and divisional organiza
.tions for the encouragement of rural sports and, when the necessary crganiza tions had baan constituted, to give such financial assistance as might be deemed suitable. Various proposals were submitted in response to this letter, and in March 1926 Commissioners ware requested to report to what
-extont funds could be raised locally for the purposes of these organizations
"MAHARISHI OF THE NINETEENTH CE::s-TURY."
*8!2. Ch3udhri Rim Singh: Will the Honourable the Finance }{ember be pleased to st,~te-
(a) the reasons for not proscribing the book entitled ' Maharishi of the Nineteenth Century ' ?
(b) whether its circulation has not re .. ehe l f\. stage at which the Government would consider the desirability of prosecuting its author?
The Henourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : "<Ilhe honour .abls mu11-J.3t is referred to the answer to his question> No. 708.
Do_GRA RAJPUTS.
*BU. Clnudhri Rim Singh: Will the Honourable the Minister -for Local Se'f-Governmeat please state the total number of Dogra Rsjputs .take'.! in the provincial medical service ever since its constitution, and the number of the same, holding posts in this service at the present time?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : '..IIhe information is being collected and will be communicated to the honourable member when
:ready.
1867 · STARRED QUESTIONS AN·D ANSWERS.
No. 16471 (L. S.-G.-Bds.), dated Lahore, the 11th July 1925. From-J. G. BEAZLEY, Esq., I.C.S., Secretary to Governmens, Punjab, Transferred
Departments, To-.All Commissioners of Divisions in the Punjab,
I AM directed by the Punjab Government (Ministry of Education) to . tefer to the Ministrv of Education's Resolufion No. 3879-S.-L. S.-G., dated.
18th September 192,i, on the subject 0£ the promotion of physical culture in the Punjab, and to say that in pursuance of that Resolution a meeting was. held in Simla on 22nd June last with a view to advising Government as to the form of organization required in order to secure that revival of interest in the old rural games of the province which the 'Ministry of Education considers so desirable. A copy of the proceedings of that meeting is enclosed, and I am to say that Government accept the recommendations made in respect of items (1), (3), (4) and (13) of the Agenda, and, as regards item (2), will be happy to receive well-considered proposals, when the necessary organisa tions have been constituted, and to give such financial assistance as may he deemed suitable. Wit]: regard to item (4) of the Agenda, l am, however, to invite special attention to paragraph 1 of the report of the proceedings of the committee, and to say that while tournaments may serve a useful purpose in stimulating interest in games, it is not the wish of Government that too much attention should be concentrated on them. 'l'ho primary object of Government is that. in every part of every district village games should come to form an essential part of the life of the people.
2. I am accordingly now to request that you will at once invite the· district boards of your division to form sports sub-committees as recommend ed in item (1) of the Agenda of the conference. It is suggested that these sub-conunittcea should consist of six members of the board with power to co-opt non-members. 'l'o this sub-committee should be entrusted the task of devising means to encourage the organizing of village games in all parts of the district. Whon such success has been achieved in this as to justify tho institution of district tournaments in which ordinary village teams; as distinguished from teams of experts or professionals, can compete, the· sub-committee will naturally be entrusted with the organization and manage ment of such tournaments,
8. ·whon these sub-committees have been constituted they should be invited to elect one representative each to serve on the Divisional Sports Board, of which yon will yourself be ex-offic10 Chairman, the Divisional Inspectoi· of Schools will be an ex-officio member, and in addition to the elected district representatives there will be two members nominated by yourself, of. whom one should be a non-official and the other an official,
_preferably the Deputy Inspector-General of Police or the Assistant Diree~or· of Public Health. 'I'he functions of the Divisional Board will primarily
[Hon. Malik Firoz Khan,. Noon.] so that Government might be in a position to determine what financial aid would be required from provincial revenues. Correspondence has been. proceeding since tpen, but no actual decision ·has as yet been arrived at and. no grants have as yet been made.
[24TH N OVR. 1927 .. ?UN,U:B LBGI-SLATIVE COUNOIL.
. •. ··~· .. ·~···
Proceedings of a meeting held at Barnes Court, Simla, to consider. the lines on which an organization could be established for the promotion of physical culture in the Punjab. A MEETING was held at 10 A.!11. on 22nd June 1925 a.t "Barnes Court,"
Simla, E., to consider the lines on which an organization could be established for the promotion of physical culture in the Punjab. The proceedings were opened by His Excellency the Governor in a short speech welcoming the proposals of the :Ministry of Education, which were intended to add colour and give a fresh interest to rural life in the province, and to give to the inhabitants of towns au opportunity of obtaining some of the physical cul ture which is at the root of mental sanity,
2. On His Excellency leaving, the chair was taken by the Honourable Minister for. Education. The following gentlemen were present:-
(1) The Honourable Sardar Bahadur Sardar Sundar Singh Majithia, Revenue Member, Punjab.
(2.) Tbe Honourable Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram, Minister fot Agriculture, Punjab •. ·
(8) Sir G~rg_e And&80ll, Kt .• , C.I.E., Director. ot Publio Instruction. Purtjarb. ·
(4} Lala Atma· Ram· Sahib; M.A., lE.S., Inspector: of Schools. -.Ailnbala· ·Div-ision,
be advisory. It will serve as a medium through which the lessons learnt by -experienee in one district will become available to all, and should be in a position to direct the attention of the district sub-committees to methods which have proved successful, or to warn 'them against measures which have proved inefficient or harmful. To the Divisional Board will also he entrusted the management of any Divisional Tournament which the success achieved in the districts may justify, and it will probably also be called upon to provide retrees and judges, free from the suspicion of local partiality, for district tournaments. Another direction in which the Divisional Board will pro· bably be. found useful will be in codifying the rules of different games with a view to ensuring that uniformity without which tournaments will ba im possible.
4. When the Divisional Board has been constituted it should proceed as soon as may be to elect a representative to serve on the Punjab Sports Board. His Excellency the Governor has kindly consented to be Patron of the Provincial Board, of which the Honourable Minister for Education will be Chairman and the Honourable Minister for Agriculture, the Director of Public Instruction and the Secretary to Government, 'I'rausferred Depart· ments, will be ex-o.f(ic-io members. In addition the Legislative Council will be invited to elect fonr representatives from among its non-official members, and the Ministrv of Education will nominate two members. 'I'he functions of the Provincial Board in relation to the Divisional Boards will be similar to those of the Divisional Board in relation to the district sub-committees,
5. In conclusion, I am to request you to submit by the 15th September a report as to the progress made by you in starting the organizations ouslin -ed above.
.,
l I
1 I
J
I I I
STABR'li:D QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
(24) Mr. H. P. Tollinton, C.I.E., I.C.S., Financial Commissioner (Development), Punjab.
(25) The Honourable Colonel Nawab Malik Sir Umar Hayat Khan Tiwana, K.C.I.E., C.B.E., M.V.O. of Kalra.
8. The agenda of the meeting were then considered- (1) It was considered that the promotion of physical culture was a
matter which district boards should take up, and that for this purpose they should be asked to appoint special sub-committees. with power to co-opt members other than members of the board to such extent as they might deem fit.
(2) It was considered that th~ annualeost of operations in a district should not be more than about Rs. 5,000, -and that the money should be found partly .l.>Y ~h~ dist~et board, partly by public,
·' ·' ·; :, t ' · · • · subscriptions and partly by g'raQt.s from provincial revenues.
[Hon. Malik Piroz Khan. Noon.] (5) Mr. J. G. Beazley, I.C.S., Secretary to Government, Punjab,
Transferred Departments. (6) The Honourable Sardar Cba.ranjit Singh Sahib. (7) Mr. ,T. ij. Dunnett, C.I.E., I.C.S., Home Secretary to Govern
ment, Punjab. (8) Malik Firoz Khan Sahib, Koon, :M. 1.0. (9) Mr. Ganpat Bai, Barrister-at-Law, Lahore.
(10) Raja Ghulam Rasul Khan Sahib, Vice-Chairman, District Board; · · Lyallpur.
(11) Lieutenant-Colonel C. A. Gill, U,f.S., Director of Public Health, Punjab.
(12) Sa.rclar Gurbakhsh Singh Sahib, M.L.C., Vice-Chairman, District. Board, Ambala.
(13) Captain Hirn Singh, l\:1.L.A. (14) Mr. Miles Irving, O.B.E., I.C.S., Financial Secretary to Govern
ment, Punjab. (15) Sardar Bahadue Sardar Jawahir Singh Sahib, C.I.E. (16) Nawab Muhammad Ha.yat Khan Sahib, Noon, Deputy Com-
missioner, Gujranwala. (17) Pandit Narain Chand Sahib, M.B.E. (18) Diwan Bahadur Raja Narendra Nath Sahib, M.L.C.
(19) Mr. J.E. Parkinson, M.A., I.E.S.
(20) Mr. K. C. Roy, O.I.E. {21) Sir Muhammad Shafi, K.C.S.I., C.I.E., Barrister-at-law, Lahore.
(22) Khan Babadur Chaudhri Shahab-ud-Din Sahib, M.L.C.
(28) Diwan Tek Chand Sahib, O.B.E., I.C.S., Commissioner, Ambala Division.
[24TH N OVR, 1927 ~ PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. !870
'OUTLETS FOR. cA~AL WATER TO D1sTRICT BoAR!),'•FEROZ-EPOR-E. .,. _
*MS. Sardara Sahib Sardar Fateh Singh: "Will the Honourable, the 'Revenue Member' be pleased t(} state-« - · 1
'
" _ (a) the circumstances in which the ~u~l~ts~ which ga,\;e canal water to the District Board, Ferozepore, for purposes of repairs to.
FINAXCIAL POSI'l'IOX OF DISTRICT BOARDS.
*844. Sardar Sahib Sardar Fateh Singh: Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government be pleased to state--
(a) whether it is a fact that during the summer of 1927 a conference of certain officers of Government was held in Simla to con sider the financial position of district boards ;
(b) whether any final decision was arrived at ; (c) when a pronouncement may be expected?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) Yes. (b) 'I'he Conference recommended that an officer should be put on special"
duty to enquire into the resources and requirements of district boards within the next five years.
(c) Ko suitable officers could be spared for special duty, and the enquiry is therefore being conducted hy eorrespondence in the Local Self-Govern· ment Department. rt is hoped that the enquiry will be completed, and that Government will be in a position to rex iew the ,\ hole matter of district • board finances by t.he end of January.
(8) It was considered that while no attempt should be made to dictate to district boards what forms of games and sport they should encourage, they should bo invited to direct their atten tion to such games as kabaddi, pitkaudi, gatka, wrestling, smmchi, khidolthundi, running, jumping, muqdars and munglis and tug-of-war.
(4) It was considered that district and divisional tournaments and possibly eventually provincial tournaments should be insti tuted, and that private generosity should be looked to for the provision of cups, trophies, etc.
(5) It was considered that there should be both divisional boards and' a provincial board to supplement and co-ordinate the efforts of district boards : the divisional board should consist of one non-official representative of each district elected by the dis trict board, together with a number of nominated members with the Commissioner as Chairman: similarly, on the pro vincial board there should be one non-official representative - of each divisional hoard, together with a number of members nominated by the Ministry of Education.
4. The object of the physical culture movement was to revive and stimulate interest in healthy games in the countryside for all, and not simply to institute tournaments for those who excel in them.
18 71'. STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
*847. Chaudhri Duli Chand: Will the Honourable Member for .Finanee kindly state--
(a) the number of honorary magistrates in the Kamal district ;
(b) the number of Hindu statutory zamindars of the Kamal dis trict among toom : ·
HONORARY MAGISTRATES,
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) No.
(b) No objection was taken to the nomination of Sardar Autar Singh -on the ground that he was less than 25 years of age, nor 'was any such inti mation given to the Deputy Commissioner .
. (c) Yes, and the local officers have been asked to submit a report.
ELECTION OF SARDAR A UTAR 81!'.GH TO SMALL TowN COMMITTEE, TANDLIANW ALA.
*846. Lala B ldh Raj : Will · the Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government please state-
(a) whether the Government is aware that the age of S. Autar Singh, son of Sardar Bahadur Mahtab Singh, who has been elected to the small town committee, 'I'andlianwala, as indicated bv his form for admission to the Matriculation and School Leaving Certificate Examination of the Punjab University was at the time of election 23f years, while the rules require that he should not have been less than 25 years of age i
(b) whether it is a fact that intimation of the above fact was given even before the election to the authorities and the authorities did not take any action in the matter ;
(c) whether it is a fact that an application has been made to the Government for removing his name from the committee ; if so, what action has been taken thereon?
{ S&rdar &bib Sa.rdar Fateh Singh.] the metalled road from Giddarbaha. to Lambi have been stopped ; and
(b) whether the Government intends restoring these outlets till such time as the district board makes other satisfactory. arrange ments for water-supply ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl·i-Husain: The information is not available at headquarters and has been called for from local officers. The result is awaited and the information, when received, will be communicat ed to the honourable member.
[24TH ~OVR, 1927• .. Ja72 PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOUNOIL.
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c
QANUNGOS IN THE KARNAL DISTRICT,
*8"9. Chaudhri Duli Chand: Will the Honourable Member for Revenue kindly state--
{a) the number of Qanungos in the Kamal district,
(b) the number of Hindus among them: and
(c) the nuniber of statutory zamindars among Hindu Qanungos?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-j-Huaain r (a) 25. {b) 18.
(e) the number of statutory Hindu zamindars among them;_ and -- (!) whether the Government intends to make up the deficiency of statutory Hindu zamindara in the rank of head constables?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The informa tion asked for by the honourable member is not available in the office. Enquiries are being made and a reply to the question will be sent as early as possible.
----...·~~~ *81S. Chaudhr! Dali Cin1Jil : Will the Honourable Member for
Finance kindly state-
(a) the number of police sub-inspectors in the Kamal district;
(b) the number of those sub-inspectors among them who are in charge of police stations ;
(c) the number of head constables in charge of thanas;
(a) the total number of head constables ;
PoLICE IN TRE KARNAL DrsTRIOT.
(c) the proportion of Hindu zamindars in the population of th& district ;
(d) the proportion of Hindu non-zamindara in the population thereof;
(e) the number of Hindu honorary magistrates not belonging to the tribes of statutory agriculturists ?
The Honourable SirJGeoffrey deMontmorency: (a) Fifteen.
(b), (c), (d) & (e), I am uncertain what the honourable member means by the terms ' statutory zamindar ', ' zamindar ' and ' statutory agri culturist.' If the honourable member means members of an agricultural tribe under section 4 of Act XIII of 1900, I will have the information eolleet- - ed and supply it to him.
1878 STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
MORTALITY FROM FEVER lN FLOOD AFFECTED AREAS.
*852. Chaudhri Duli Chand : Will the Honourable the Ministel': for Local Self-Government kindly state->
(a) the number of deaths from fever in tracts which are annually flooded by hill streams in the Kamal district ; and
(b) the remedial steps which the Government propose to take to prevent this heavy toll ?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon~ (a) If the honourable member will kindly define the area to which he refers, steps will be ta.ken to supply him with the figures.
(b) The Rural Sanitary Board is already taking steps to prevent flood· i rig in the Karna! district by training and grading the Bamsti Nallah,
"'851. Chaudhri Duli Chand: Will the Honourable Member for Revenue kindly state-
(a) the names of the villages between Rador in the Thanesar tahsil and Indri in the Kamal tahsil whose lands on either bank of the Western Jumna Canal suffers from water-logging;
(b) whether the land of any other villages on either bank of this canal in the Kamal district suffers from water -logging ; and
(c) whether Government pro poses to grant land in the Nili Bar to the zamindars of these water-logged villages?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain t The reply to this ques tion is not ready as a repcrt has been called for from the local officers. It will be communicated to the honourable member as soon as possible.
'GRANT OF LAND IN NILI BAR TO ZAMINDARS OF CERTAIN WATER· LOGGED VILLAGES,
. . . . *850. Chaudhri Duli Chand e Will the Honourable Member for Revenue kindly state (a) the area of land and the number of wells that have been washed away by the river Jumna in the Panipat and 'I'haneser tahsils during the years following the settlement of 1904-10; and (b) whether the Government intends to adopt measures to compensate this loss ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl .. i .. Husain: The question has necessitated enquiries which are not yet complete. An answer will be 1e;ot to the honourable member when it is ready.
DAMAGE TO LANDS AND WELLS BY FLOODS IN THE ,TUMNA.
[ Hon, Mian Sir Fa.zl-i-Husain. J · (i) 'l:he term " Statutory zamindsr " is not understood. If the
honourable member means thereby, men belonging to the notified agricul tural tribes in the Kamal c istrict or in the district of their origin, informa tion will tie collected and supplied to the honourable member.
[24TH Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1874
0.,,....,....--. -·-- . ·- --- .·--~--~-.-----·---.-··--
*855. Lala Keiho Ram, Sekliri·: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to give the particulars of Martial Law prisoners now
o!>4·
MARTIAL LAW PRISONERS,
*854. Lala Kesho Ram, Sekhri: Will the Honourable the Minister . for Local Self-Government be pleased to state-
(a) the usual death-rate in the Punjab every year on account of tuber culosis ;
(b) what preventive measures the Government proposes to take to stamp out the disease ;
(c) whether the Government proposes to start a sanatorium in the Punjab?
The Honourable Malik Firoz. Khan. Noon: (a) The death-rate from pulmonary tuberculosis cannot be accurately stated as deaths from this disease are not usually recorded as such.
(b) and (o) The whole question is under consideration and this Govem-. ment have intimated to the Government of India their willingness to parti eipate in a Conference recommended in a Resolution passed by the Council of State to consider the measures that can be adopted to launch an anti· tuberculosis eampsign.
TUBERCULOSIS.
Ons,
*853. Chaudhri Duli Chand: (a) HM it been brought to the notice of the Honourable Member for Finance that Ods, a nomadic tribe iti the Kamal district, do great damage to the cr<>ps of the samindars of the district and consequently riots take place between the zamindars and the Oda?
(b) How many murders have taken place on account of such riots during the year ?
(e) What steps does Government propose to take to handle this situa tion in the Karnal district ?
Tlie Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (.a) Yes.
(b) Government have no information on this point, but will make en· quiries and communicate the result to the honourable member in due course.
(c) As the remedies available to complainants under the law as it exists are sufficient, Government sees no necessity for any special action. Magis trates have been instructed to deal severely with habitual offenders under section 110, Criminal Procedure Code or the appropriate sections of the Indian Penal Code and the Cattle Trespass Act.
137& STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
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[ Lala. Kesho Ram, Sekhri. J undergoing sentences in Andamans asked by me in my Council 1question No. 187 starred on 21st March 1927?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: A statement is laid on the table.
[24TH Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1876
GRAND TRUNK ROAD FROM KHALSA COLLEGE TO CANAL BRIDGE, AMRITSAR.
*858. Lala Kesho Ram, Sekhri : Will the Honourable the Minister for Agriculture be pleased to state-
(1) whether any tarred roads within Lahore municipal area are main tained by the Government ;
(2) whether there is any proposal to take over certain roads within the Amritsar municipal area. for maintenance by Govern· ment;
(S) whether the Public Works Department is going to tar a portion of the Grand Trunk Road from Khalsa College, Amritsar, to the Canal Bridge; if so, when?
The Honourable Sardar J ogendra Singh : (1) Yes. (2) No proposal of the kind is under consideration by Government. (3) Owing to the excessive wear on the Grand Trunk Road between
Lahore and Amritsar certain miles have been tarred at. the time when they were resurfaced and it is probable that the length mentioned will also be tarred when it comes to be resurfaced,
FEMALE HOSPITAL, AMRITSAR.
*857. Lala Kesho Ram, Sekhri: Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Self-Government, Punjab, be pleased to state-
(a) whether it is a fact that some 10 years ago the foundation stone was laid for the building of a Female Hospital at Amritsar by Her Excellency Lady Chelmsford, and that the building has not yet been erected ;
(b) whether it is a fact that for the last two years the scheme for building that Hospital is awaiting Government's sanction'}
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: {a) Yes. (b) Administrative approval was not accorded in 1925 as the committee
then had liabilities amounting to about rupees one lakh and it was considered that it should clear them off before it should be allowed to undertake the scheme. The question of granting administrative approval is now being re-examined.
PREVENTIVE MEASURES FOR COl\(:MUNAL RIOTS.
*856. Lala Kesho Ram, Sekhri: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state what preventive measures the Government intends to take to make the recurrence of communal riots impossible in the Punjab?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : Governm~ntis ta.king and will continue to take all possible measures to prevent the occurrence of communal riots ; complete cessation can only be hoped for if Government action is accompanied and reinforced by widespread, active and sincere efforts of persons of influence in both communities to establish neighbourly relations and mutual good will.
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. _j
*860. Sardar Partap Singh : (a) Will ths Honourable Member for Finance be pleased to state if it is a fact that Criminal Investigation Department constables have been specially posted to keep an eye on the movements of the following gentlemen :~
(1) Bhagwan Singh, Jathedar, Canadian Shahidi Jatha, resident, Dosangh Kalan, district Jullundm·.
(2) Karam Singh, Canadian, resident Choma Khurd, district. Jul lundur.
(B) Bhag Singh, Canadian, resident Uppal Bhupa, district Jul lundur.
(4) Rachpal Singh and Gulzara Singh, Canadians, resident Bandala, district Jullundur.
,VATCHING THE MOVEMENTS OF CERTAIN GENTLEMEN BY THE CRIMIN AL INVESTIGATION DEPARTMENT.
CIVIL HOSPITAL, AMRITSAR,
•859. Lala Kesho Ram. Sekhri: Will the Honourable the Minister for Local Belt-Government, Punjab, be pleased to state-
(a) if it is a fact that the Amritsar Civil Hospital is situated iu a depression ;
(b) whether there is any drainage for the hospital ;
(c) the action the Government proposes to take for draining the hospital water ;
(d) whether it is proposed to remove the hospital from its existing site near the railway line, where more than 20 trains pass every day;
· (e) the total number of beds provided in the Amritsar hospital ; (f) whether these are sufficient to meet the present demand and if
not, the action the Government proposes to take to meet the demand;
(g) whether it is a fact that the Amritsar Civil Hospital never had a regular nursing staff? If so, whether Government proposes to provide the necessary staff?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) Yes. (b) and (c) A drainage scheme was administratively approved in 1925,
but it had to be revised and a decision in regard to it has been held up pending decision of the question of provincializing the hospital and possibly of moving it to some better site.
(d) The matter is under consideration. (e) 176. (f) No: now that the hospital has been provincialized it is hoped to
extend it as soon as possible. (g) Yes.
[24TB. Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIV.B COUNCIL,
*861. Lala Gopal Das : Will the Honourable :Member for Revenue please state-
(a) if it is a fact that the size of almost all the outlets on the Makh doom Rashid distributary of the Sidhna.i Canal have been redueed :
(b) whether the original size 0£ these outlets was constructed accord ing to the sanctioned design and haq of water of. the people ;
(c) whether reduction in the size of the aforesaid outlets has been carried out in order to supply water to the tail ;
(d) whether during the 3 years, figures of which period have been considered as data of tail irrigation, the distributary · in question was allowed to flow full supply ;
OUTLETS ON. THE )faKHDOOM RASHID DISTRIBUTARY OF THE 8IDHNAI CANAL.
. (5) Jujhar Singh, resident Nussi, district Jullundur, (6) Ohanchal Singh, Canadian, resident Jandiala, district Jullundur. (7) Partap Singh, Canadian, resident Meuza Kot Fatuhi, district
Hoshiarpur. (8) Ram Singh, Judge, resident Mauza. Manian, district Boshia.r·
pur,
(9) Ram Singh, Johar, resident Hoshiarpur ? (b) Has it been brought to the notice of Government that the public
in general and the gentlemen mentioned above in particular are in the know that such and such a constable is keeping an eye on the movements of such and such a person, and tha.t these constables are a source of discomfort to the gentlemen concerned ?
(c) If the answer to (b) above be in the affirmative, will the honourable member be pleased to by on tho table a, list of such persons, as are being watched by Criminal Investigation Department oonstables giving the follow ing details in regard to each :-
(i) the date from which he has been under police surveillance ; (ii) the date upto which he will remain under police surveillance ;
('iii) the reasons for keeping hiui under police surveillance ; (iv) if there an, not sufficient reasons for keeping these people under
surveillance, whether the Honourable Member for Finance will be pleased to consider the question of the withdrawal of these Criminal Investigation Department constables and if for certain reasons the Government has to watch the movements of these people, whether ho proposes to a,fo1>t some better means ol keeping a watch upon such pursons ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : It is not in the public interest that a reply should be given to this question.
STARRED QUESTIONS AND .ANSWIJRS •
LETTING ACCUSED ON BAILo
*863. Lala Gopal Das : (a) Will the Honourable the Finance Member please state whether it is a fact that the Superintendent of Police, Hissar, has issued a circular to all first class magistrates informing them that the magistrates, including a very senior Magistrate, are in the habit of letting accused on bail and acquitting them on flimsy grounds, and that they should refrain from doing so in future?
(b) If the answer to (a) be in the affirmative, will the Honourable the Finance Member please lay a copy of it on the table for the information of the House ?
(c) Is a Superintendent of Police competent to address such a commu nication to Magistrates?
(d) Is it a fact that since the circular has been issued, the percentage of convictions in challan cases has gone very high and the Magistrates seldom release the accused on bail ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: Enquiries. are being made and result will be communicated to the honourable member in due course.
WAL! MUHAMMAD, MOTi LAL AND SECUNDERABAD !S"ALLAHS,
*862. Lala Gopal Das: (i) Will the Honourable .Member for Revenue be pleased to state the period during which the Wali Muhammad, Moti Lal and Seeundarabad nullahs in the :Multan district flowed-
(a) prior to the opening of the triple canal project ; (b) this year ?
(ii) If the period of flow of these nullahs this year has been shorter than before, does Government propose to take steps to improve the heads of these nullahs ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl .. i-Husain t The information called for is not available at headquarters and has been called for from the local officers. The information when received will be communicated to the honourable member.
[Lala. Gopal Das.] ( e) whether the reduction in the size of the said outlets has been
carried out on the reported figures of abpashi of the said lands for the preceding S years ;
(j) whether the irrigation department took into consideration (i) the kharoba allowed for failure of crops during the said period ; (ii) the manner in which the zamindars used the canal water for sowing larger area and maturing it with well water : and (iii) the abpai;hi of the preceding years?
The Honourable Mian Sir Faal-i .. Husain: The information is not available at head-quarters and has been called for from the local officers. The result is awaited, and the information when received will be communi cated to honourable member.
[24Tu Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOUNOIL. 1880
MR. SMYTHE, SuB-D1v1srnNAL OFFICER.
*865. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable Member for Revenue please state--
(a) if it is a fact that Mr. Smythe, Sub-Divisional Officer, :\fontgomery Division, has been all along ti gazetted officer or promoted from the subordinate service ;
(b) if the said officer has been receiving increments in his pay re gularly : if not, why;
(c) if it is a fact that he was recently given a chance for officiating as Executive Engineer, }Iontgomery Division, superseding the claims of some of his seniors, for instance, Messrs. Pahva and Majid;
(a) how long he has been in the district and when he is expected to be transferred ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fasl-i-Husaia r (a) Mr. Smythe is a gazetted officer of the Punjab Engineering Service who was promoted from the old Upper Subordinate Establishment.
(b) He has received increments regularly up to the time he arrived at an efficiency bar ; the passing of this efficiency bar depends on his next report.
CoHPLAINTS OF OULTIVATORS ON 11-L MONTGOMERY CANAL D1v1SION AGAINST A CANAL OFFICER.
*864. Lala Bodh Raj: Will the Honourable Member for Revenue please state-
(a) if it is a fact that a large number of cultivators on 11-L Montgo mery Canal division recently waited on the Deputy Commis sioner complaining against a certain canal officer? If so, the nature of their complaint ?
(b) if it is a fact that the Deputy Commissioner fixed some time for the inspection of their outlets, fields and crops, and inspected them along with those of Major Courtney, a Government lessee;
(c) the result of the Deputy Commissioner's inspection; (d) whether the Deputy Commissioner has recommended the transfer
of anv canal officer ; (e) whether \t is a fact that the pipes of the said zamindars were
changed during the currency, instead of at the beginning, of their crops which is opposed to Irrigation rules ;
(!) whether it is a fa(:t that the zamindars have been complaining of this matter to the canal authorities and if so, with what effect ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husaia r Information regarding the subject raised in this question is being collected, and will be communi cated to the honourable member when complete.
1881 STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
ALLEGED MURDER OF MUSLIMS AT JALALPUR PIRWALA.
*867. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable Member for Finance be pleased to state-
(a) whether it is a fact that a report was made to the police recent.ly that the Hindus had murdered two Muslims and thrown them into a well at Jalalpur Pirwala, tahsil Shujabad, Multan district ;
(b) the result of the enquiry by the police ; and (c) whether any action is proposed to be taken against those who made
· the false report to the police? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) and (b) The
honourable member is referred to the press communique which was p b lished in the Press on 26th August 1927 and 0-f which a copy is laid on the table. .
KITCHEN CANAL,
*866. Lala Bodh Raj : (i) Will the Honourable Member for Revenue please state--
(a) whether it is n. fact that at the time of the digging of the Kitchen Canal it was promised by the Government that every person digging 16,000 c. feet of earth would be granted one square of land;
(b) if it is a fact that. those Rai Sikhs who dug the canal were given some ohaks on the Kitchen Canal which they gave up because those chaks could not be irrigated by canal water :
(c) if it is a fact that such Bai Sikhs approached the authorities press· ing their claims at the time of allotment of land on the Kitchen Canal and on the Lower Bari Doab Canal and their request was not acceded to?
(ii) If so, will thaHonoureble Member please state why their claims have been overlooked in view of the promises held out to them?
The Honourable Mian Sir FazJ .. i .. Husain: I regret that the answer to this question is not yet ready. A reference has been made to the Dsputy Commissioner, Montgomery, whose reply is still awaited.
[Hon. lfian Sir Fazl-i-H11S0,iu.] (c) He recently did officiate as Executive Engineer, Montgomery Divi
sion, in a short leave vacancy. Both Messrs. Smythe and Pahwa being members of the Punjab Engineering Service have no claims to Divisional charge and Mr. Majid Ullah, having just over three years service at the time was too junior for Divisional charge-Mr. Smythe was the senior Sub· Divisional Officer of the Montgomery Division.
(if) Mr. Smythe bas been in the Montgomery District since December 1924. His transfer from the Lower Bari Doab Canal Circle will depend entirely on the exigencies of the public service.
[24TH NoVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1882
ll'ages 1291-92 ante.
RELEASE OF DEVI SHARAN AND GIAN CHA'ND.
*869, Chaudhri Ram Singh: Will the Honourable Member for Finance please state whether the Government intends releasing Messrs. Devi Sharan and Gian Chand who were convicted under section 153-A ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : 'Ilhe convicts mentioned in tlrn question will not be released until the expiry of their sen tence.
IfoNORARY LIEUTENANT HAJJ SHER BAHADUR KHAN. '
*868. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state-
(a) if it is a fact that Honorary Lieutenant Haji Sher Bahadur Khan who was an Honorary Magistrate at Pind Dadan Khan has now been removed from the post of Honorary ::\fagistra.te;
(b) if it is a :fact that Government has also recommended to the Military authorities to remove his name from the rank of Lieutenantship ;
(c) the charge against him? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : Will the honour
able member kindly refer to the reply given to Council 1question Ko. 781 starred put by Chaudhri Afzal Haq on tho 23rd instant ?
MISREPORTED FACTS.
A press co11wiunique says that statements have appeared in certain newspapers to the effect that two Musalmans were murdered in Jalalpur Pirwala, District Multan, on August 11, by Hindus, and that their corpses were thrown into a well. 'Ilhe actual facts, as ascertained by an inquiry made on the spot by the Superintendent of Police and a European Magistrate on August 19 were that certain Muhammadan labourers were engaged in cleaning a well in Mohalla Wadhawanwala: when one of them, named • Nabla, who was apparently subject to epileptic fits became unconscious while· actually in the water. A companion named Kala went down the well to assist Nabla, but both of them wero unfortunately drowned. 'JJhe accident was at once reported to the police and medical examination of the bodies made it clear that death was in both cases due to drowning. The report that the two men had boan murdered and thrown into the well appears to have been spread by certain ill-disposed persons which caused considerable excitement. 'Ilhe report was, however, so tu as has been ascertained, entirely false. ·
BODIES IN A WELL.
(e) Yes. A report has been called for as to particular action taken and information will be supplied to the honourable member in due course.
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
1pa~ 987 a1iti:, SV ol. X -A, page 637.
*872. Mian Ahmad Yar Khan Daultana: (i) With reference to the answer to 2question No. 217 (starred) put on 22nd March 1927, will the Honourable the Minister for Agriculture kindly state-
(a.) against which vacancy Lala Durga Dass was promoted to the Provincial Veterinary Service ;
(b) whether it is a fact that in the Veterinary College, Lahore, there is a post of House Surgeon, which is in the Provincial Veteri nary Service;
(c) whether it is a fact that Khan Sahib Ghulam Rasul was the House Surgeon in the Punjab Veterinary College, Lahore, at the time of his retirement in the summer of 1926 ;
Hotrsn SuRGEOX, VETERINARY COLLEGE, LAHORE.
*871. Chaudhri Ram Singh : (i) Will the Honourable Member for Revenue please state if it is a faot-
(a) that the Timi charged on goats and sheep in the Kangra district is given to J agirdars and " Ala Maliks " in whole and that in some places it is given to them only in part ;
(b} that a number of Jagirdar residents of tahsil Nurpur enjoyed this right till recently but they have now been deprived of it?
(ii) if the answer to the above be in the affirmative will the Honourable Member state the reasons for stopping this privilege and also whether it is proposed to regrant the right to the Jagirdars ?
The Honourable Mian Sir FazJ..i .. Husain : The question has neces sitated enquries which are not yet complete. An answer will be sent to the honourable member when it is ready.
REORANTI::-l"G THE RIGHT OF TIRNI TO JAGIRDARS.
ACTION AGAINST ANJUMAN KHUDDAM·UD·Dn,.
*870. Cbaudhri Ram Singh: With reference to the answer given to the staffed 1question No. 455 put on 22nd July 1927, will the Honourable Member for Finance please state if any action has been taken against the Anjuroan Khuddam-ud-Din, which body passed resolutions inciting· people to acts of violence and murder ? If not, why not ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : No action against the Anjuman was taken, because it was not clear that the resolution as passed was actionable. The resolution was not correctly reported in some news papers.
[24TH NoVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1884
tpages 984-85 ante.
AGRiCULTURAL COLLEGE, LYALLPuR.
*873. Mian Ahmad Yar Khan, Daultana: (i) (a) Will th"°a Honourable the Mmister for Agricuhui·e be pleased to state the proportion of the statutory agriculturists among Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs in the Punjab?
(b) With reference to 1question No. 451 (i) (b) (starred) put on 22.nd July 1927, will he be pleased to state the number of Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims admitted to the Agricultural College; Lyallpur ?
(d) whether it is a fact that on the retirement of Khan Sahib Ghulam Rasul, the duties of the House Surgeon were entrusted to Chaudhri Mushtaq Ahmad, and he was carrying on those duties even on the 22nd March 1927 ;
(e) whether it is a fact that the pay of the House Surgeon has been drawn by Lala Durga Dass ? If so, for how many months?
(j) whether it is also a fact that for the appointment of the House Surgeon in t.}10 Veterinary College, Lahore, Chaudhri :\foshtaq Ahmad was recommended more than once, and unanimously by the Professor of Surgery, the Principal, Punjab Veterinary College, the Director of Agriculture, and the Financial Com missioner, Development, and yet Lala Durga Dass was appointed?
(ii) If the answers to (d), (e), and (J) are in the affirmative, will the Honourable the Minister for Agriculture kindly give reasons for his actions in each case ? Will he particularly give reasons for allowing Lala Durga Dass to draw the pay of the post of the House Surgeon while Chaudhri Mushtaq Ahmad did the work of the post, ?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: (a) On the retirement of Khan Sahib Ghulam Rasul a vacancy occurred in the Provincial Service to which Lala Durga Das was promoted.
(b) Yes. (c) Yes. (d) Yes. (e) Yes. Since his promotion.
(j) Recommendations of this nature are confidential. Lala Durga Das was promoted to tho Provincial Service as the most senior qualified officer, when a vacancy in the Provincial Service occurred on the retirement of Khan Sahib Ghulam Rasul.
(ii) 'llhe fact that Lala Durga Das was promoted to the Provincial Ser vice to fill a particular post- that was vacant was not considered to justify disturbing tho existing arrangements for carrying on the work of the College.
1385 STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
..
1p11g€8 964-86 •11t,. *Vol. X-A, pages640-4I. •Vol. X.A, pages 639-40.
COMMUNAL REPRESENTATION IN AGRICULTURAL DEPARTMENT.
*875. Mian Ahmad Yar Khan, Daultana: With reference to the answer to 3question No. 220 (starred) and the supplementary question thereto put on the 22nd March 1927, by Shaikh Faiz Muhammad, will the Honourable the Minister for Agriculture kindly give=-
(a) the names of the six Muhammadans appointed to the Agricultural Service in 1926 ;
(b) the names of the Sikhs and Hindus appointed to the Agricultural Service in the same year ;
M the starting pay and scale of JJay offered in each case 'l
s. LABH SINGH, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN THE AGRICULTURAL
COLLEGE, LYALLPUR.
"'874. Mian Ahmad Yar Khan Daultana: (a) With reference to the answer to 2question No. 222 and the supplementary question thereto put on 22nd March 1927, by Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan, will the Honourable Minister for Agriculture be pleased to state whether the appoint ment of Sardar Labh Singh as Associate Professor in the Punjab Agricultural College, as stated by the Honourable the Minister for Agriculture was a mere transfer from one place to another, and no promotion was involved?
(b) If so, will he please etate whether Sardar Labh Singh is still in .the grads of Rs. 200---250-25/550-25-750?
(c) If not, what is his present grade ? (cl) What was his pay as Assistant Professor, what is his present pay, the
annual increment that he receives? (e) From which place was Sardar Labh Singh transferred and to what
place was he posted ? The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : I regret that the answer
to this question is not yet ready. A reference has been made to the Director of Agriculture whose reply has not. yet been received.
[Mum Ahmad Yar Khan Daultana.] (ii) Will the Honourable Minister be pleased to state with reference
to his answer to 1q uestion No. 451 ( ii) and ( iii) put on 22nd July 1927- ( a) whether a Muslim agriculturist with over 550 marks, who applied
for admission was not admitted ; (b) the number of Hindu and Sikh candidates with lower marks
than this candidate, who were admitted ; (c) the number of non-agriculturists who have boon admitted and
whose marks and educational qualifications were inferior to those of some of the agriculturists who were rejected ?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: I regret. that the answer to this question is not yet ready. A reference bas been made to the Director of Agriculture whose reply has not yet been received.
[24TH Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1886
200
375 pl118 Rs. 50,
300
300
300
200
200
425
200
His time-scale pay plua a special pay of Rs. 150.
200
Rs.
2 Lala. Lal Chand, Suri, Workshop 250-20-750 Superintendent.
l Lala lla.ns Raj, Bani, Fodder Spe- 200-260-25-550/25-750 cialist,
Bindua.
4 Sa.rdar Harnam Singh, .Assista.nt 200-250-25-550/25-750 to Cerea.list. (temporary).
300--40
300--40
2 Sardar Ram Singh, Bacteriologist
3 Dr. Da.J.ip Singh, 2nd Agricultural Chemist.
... l 300--40
(b) and (c).
Sardar Lal Singh, Fruit Specialist to Government, Punjab,
Sikhs.
5 Mr. Ghias-ud-din, officiating Assis- 200-250-25-550/25-750 tant Professor of Botany.
6 Mr. K. A. Rahman, Assistant Pro- 200-250-25-550/25-750 fessor of Entomology.
3 Malik Amanat Khan, Extra As- 200-250-25-550(25-750 sistant Director of Agriculture.
4 M. Muhammad Hassan Khan, 200-250-25-550(25-750 Assistant to Cerealist attached to Cotton Research Botanist.
1 Chaudhri Abdul Wahid, Extra As- 200-250-25--550/25-750 sistant Director of Agriculture.
2 Khan Bahadur Maulvi Fateh-ud- 350-1,250 Din, Assistant Director of Agri- culture.
(a) and (c)-
MuhammadaM.
Starting pay offered.
• • Scale of pay. Name with designf tion. No.
Rs.
. The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: 'Ilhe information sskad for is given below :-
1887
· 1
STARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
·-
lPage 984 ante. 2Pa.ge 9~4 ante.
AGRICULTURAL ENGINEER.
*878. Mian Ahmad Yar Khan, Daultana: (a) Will the Honourable the Minister for Agriculture be pleased to state when the Agricultural Engineer was appointed?
(b) How many implements has he invented since his appointment?· (c) How many of these implements have been purchased by cultivators
in the province ?
AGRICULTURAL COLLEGE, LYALLPUR.
*877. Mian Ahmad Yar Khan, Daultana: With reference to the answer to 2question No. 45l(starred)"and the supplementary questions thereto put on 22nd July 1927, will:the Honourable the :.\iinister for Agriculture be pleased to st.ate-
( a) on how many of the admission committees appointed to select candidates for admission to the Punjab Agricultural College, Lyallpur, from various revenue divisions, Muhamrnadans were represented ;
(b) the number of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs admitted by each committee respectively?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : I regret that the answer to this question is not yet ready. A reference has been made to the Director of Agriculture whose reply has not yet been received.
1. ARJAK DAs, PERSONAL AssISTAKr TO MINISTER FOR AGRICUL· TURE.
*876. Mian Ahmad Yar Khan, Daultana : (i) With reference to the answer to lquestion No. 4n0 (starred) put on 22nc. July 192'7, will tho Honour able Minister for Agriculture kindly state-
(a) if Lala Arjan Das, his personal assistant (Stenographer) was not acting as Joint Secretary of the Joint Development Board, Punjab, in July last, and whether his designation as such has not been changed to Assistant Secretary, Joint Development Board, Punjab ;
(b) whether he belongs to the clerical establishment? (ii) If the answer to the above is in the affirmative how does it re
concile with the answer to Council 1question No. 450? The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: (a) Tho answer to the
first part of the question is in the negative. Lala Arjan Das' designation was changed to that of Assistant Secretary in the end of June last.
(b) Yes. (ii) If the honourable member will mad the answer now given with
the answer given to his 1question No. 450 in July last he will find that there is nothing inconsistent.
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. [24TH N OVR, 1927. 1888
...----------- {
.D
1\'ol. VlII-B, pages 1167-81 and App. VIII, page cxli,
SuPERSESSION OF Musr.urs BY MR. DAULAT RAM, BHATIA, *881. Mian Ahmad Yar Khan, Daultana: Will the Honoursbla
Minister for Education be pleased to state- (a) whether it is a fact that Mr. Daulat Ram, Bhatia, who has been
promoted to the Provincial Educational Service has superseded many Muslims ;
(b) if the answer to (a) is in the affirmative, the reasons why those Muslims were superseded?
U.e Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Dr. Daulat Ram, Bhatia, has been appointed to a vacancy in the Pronvincial Educational Service at the College at L,udhiana'. . 'Io such college v~cancies, an~ e~ch college 'has attached to 1t a certain number of posts in the Provincial Educational Service, only such persons as are actually doing . lecturing work in col leges or recommended as competent to do so can be appointed. It is not a matter of promotion of any person whatsoever from the Subordi nate Service. The ]?articular vacancy at Ludh_iana was that of a lecturership in Zoology, for which Dr. Daulat Ram, Bhat1~., possessed exceptional quali ncations. Even if he had not been already in Government service these would have justified, and would in all probability have led to his appoint ment to the post direct in preference to any member of the Subordinat~ Educational Service. It cannot be said, therefore, that the appointment. in question has involved the suporsession of any member of the Subordi nate Educational Service.
(b) Does not arise.
INSPECTOR AND DEPL'TY lKSPECToR OF ScHOoLs, LAHORE Drv1s10N. *880. Mian Ahmad Y ar Khan, Daultana : Will the Honourable the
Minister fer Education be pleased to state whether-the Inspector and Deputy Inspector of Schools in the Lahcre Division arc both non·Muslims?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Yes.
PROVINCIAL EDUCATIONAL SERVICE. . *819. Mian·Ahmad Yar Khan, Daultana: (a) Will the Honourable
the Minister fer Education be pleased to state the number of gentle men who have been taken in the Provincial Educational Service 'from outside and frcm the department with their names and religions, since his appoint· mont as :Minister ?
(b) Hew many of them belong to the agriculturist tribes and how many to the non-agriculturist tribes ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The honourable member is referred to the antwor given to Council 1questions Nos. 1961·1975.
( a) Where and by whom these implements are manufactured ? If by private firms, v. ho gets the royalty for the patents ?
. The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : I regret that the answer to this question is not yet ready. A reference has been made to the Direo- tor of Agriculture whose reply has not yet been received. .
188~ ST..lRltED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
-------------- - - - --------
RECONCILIATION OF NAZIR HussAIN WITH TALIB .Hussarx TH.RO-UGH SuB INSPECTOR OF POLICE.
*9". L•la B~ilh Raj : Will the Honourable ~~ember for Finance please state--- ·
(a} whether it is a fa3t that the Sub-Inspector of Police brought about· reconciliation between 01.e Naair H'rsssin who brorght, oo:n plaints against Talib Hussain, zaildar, Jha-~g district and 'I'alib Hussain ; ii so, at whose instance?
(b) · whether there is a record of such reconciliationin the police diary'!
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : Enquiries are bEling made- and result will be communicated to the honourable member in due course. ·
INSPECTION OF hAQA KACHHI BY DISTRICT Orercsns. *883;. ldu,a . B_od,h_ Raj : Will the Chief Secretary plea.~ state
when the ilaqa of Kaehhi in Jhang district was. last visited (1) by the Deputy Commissioner and (2) by the Superintendent of Police ?
• Mr. H. W. Emenon: The Kschhi Ilaqa was last visited by the Deputy Commissioner and Superintendent of Police in January 1927.
0NCM €otLECTlON OF rfIRNI IN 8HORKOT '.IJAHSIL,
*882. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable Member for Revenue p•e sta.te whether it is a.. fact- ·
(a) that in Shorkot T-ahsil ol.Jhang District there exists I\ system of realizing '.l:irni dues through the lessees ;
(b) that the zamindars of Kachhi complained to the authorities that the leasees have been going as a hunting party to realize the dues ;
(c), that on behalt of the lessees the men of Talib Hussain, zaildar, · Wet\t_ to realize the dues and they realized more than the actual
dues and receipts were passed by those men for the realized dues;
(d) that in some cases the people from whom the dues were to be realized left their il.aqa I~ ving their- ladies and children- who were wrongfully confined and disgraced, and in other cases cattle was seized and taken to another ilaqa and released after the ransom money was taken by men of the hu,nting p~.rty;
(c}_ that it wa,s recorded by the authorities tha_t leases should not be given in future to Talib Hussain, zaildar, or his party;
(!) what a0tio:1 have the authorities taken agi\inst the persons at fault?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fael-i-Husai» : The question has neces • sitatsd enquiries which are not yet complete. An answer will be sent to the honourable member when it is ready.
[24TH Nova. 1~2;. lUN.T.AB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. '
r-· -----·-- __ .. _,, ---·- . 1-
1 .
•
DIRECT RECRUITMENT OF HEAD CONSTABLES,
*888. Lala Bodh Raj: Will the Honourable Member for Finance please state->
(a) the number of persons recruited direct as head constables in. the Police. Department in the districts of Multan Division for the· fast 5 years according to districts ;
(b) the· number ~f Hindus and Muhammadans among them? The llonouif!aile Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The informat~1;>n
, asked for by the honourable member is not available in the office. · Enquiries ,.are being made and a reply to the question will be sent as early as possible.
n2 .
RoAD TAX IN KoT Ann. *887. Lala Bodh Raj : wm the Honourable the 1Iinister for Loeal
·Self-Government please state if it is a fact that some 312 voters of the Small Town Committee of Kot Adu in Muzaffargarh district have protested iu
-writing against the assessment of the Road Tax? If so, what action has , been taken in the matter ? ~
. The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan. Noon: Yes. The protest is under the consideration of the Town Committee.
LntER'l'Y T@ @FFER PRAYERS 1~ BOARDING Housn, GoYER~ MENT COLLEGE. }IGLTA~.
*SN. Lala, Bodh Raj: Will the Honourable the Minister for Education please state whether in the Boarding House of the Government College, Multan, the Hindu and Muhammsdnn students have got the liberty "to say
· their respective prn.yers ? If not, why? The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Yes.
COMPLAINT A9',H1'iST TALIB HUSSAIN, ZAILDAR, GAR.II MAHARAJ.A.
"'885. Lala Bodh Raj-: Will the Honourable Membe1· for Revenue please state;- . -- -- (a) whether it is a fa.ct that a deputation of the Hindu Si>,bha, Jhang-
}laghiana, made a raprssentction to the Deputy Commis sioner, Jhang, against Talib Hussain, zaildar, Garh Msharaja ;
(a) whether it is a fact that the Deputy Commissioner asked the n~eni:bers of the deputation to file an affidavit and that the a.ffidtl.-vit was filed by two Muhsmmarlans and one Hindu ;
(c) the names, of those who were called upon by the Revenue Aesia toot, te, support the allegations ;
(d) whether it is n fact that a list of witnesses and documents to be called w,LS filed ;
(e) whether the authorities have taken any further proceedings in the matter?
The Honourable Mian Sir FazI .. i .. Husain: It is regretted that the reply to this question is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
STARRED. Q'UESTOONS AN1D1 ANSWERS,
l
Am111sSJON TO THE NoRMAL CLASSES, JHANG, CoMMUNITYWISE.
*891. Lala Bodh Raj: Will the Honourable the Minister for Eduea- · tion please state if auy circular has been issued by the authorities fixing any percentage for the members of various communities for admission to the · normal classes at Jhang? If so, will he please lay it on the table?
The Honourable Mr. Manobar-Lal: No such circular has been issued" l>y Government.
(f) No.
Cir.O'" • *890. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the. Honourable the Minister for L~caf!.. Self-Government please state-
(a) the amount sanctioned for the drainage system at Jhang-Msgh- iana, and the time when the estimates. were prepared ;
(b) when the work was executed and under whose supervision ; (c) the amount that has been spent 011 Maghiana works alone ; (d) the amount spent on the Nalla drainage and whether the Nalla ·
drainage is serviceable ; (e) whether the loss on the Nalla drainage will be met by the Mu-
. nieipality or by the Government; . (f} whether the local authorities have applied to the Government
for the sanction of a further grant for drainage work for Jhang, City?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan. Noon: (a) Rs. 2,97,638 in 1920. (b) The work was begun in 1928 and is still in progress. (e), (d), and (e). .A report has been called for and the result will be ·
communicated to the honourable member in due course.
JHANO DRAINAGE SYSTEM.
.g.11NEBAL ELECTIO?fS, ·Mux.uN MUNICIPAL Co!ilMITTEE.
•889. Lala Boclh Raj : (i, Will the Honourable the Mini~ter for· Local Self-Government please state-
(a) whether it is a faet that applications for .general elections to Mul· tan Municipal Committee were entertained by the Deputy Commissioner himself ;
(b) whether it is a fact that during the time allowed by the rules for filing applications, the Deputy Commissioner, Multan, waif· throughout in camp outside the limits of the Municipality;
(e) whether such a procedure has ever been adopted before? The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: (a) Yes. (b) Yes. (c) Government have no information.
PVNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.. (24TH Novn.1927..-
DESECRATION OF GRANTH SAHIB, JHANG,
*894. Lala Bodh Raj : U) Will tho Honourable }!ember for Finance please state-
(a) whether it has come to his notice that some mischievous persons threw the Granth Sahib into a Bajwah in Jhang district and that the alleged culprits were acquitted by the law courts;
(b) whether the Government is aware that the Sikhs recently held a Diwan at Jhang and passed resolutions requesting the Government to make use of other resourc ;S to find out the real culprits in the affair ?
(ii) If sot what further action the Government intend to take in the matter?
The Heneureble Sir·Geoffrey deM1,ntm1>rency: (a) A copy of the -Granth Sahib was missing from a Dharmsala in village Sheikh Chuhsr on June 10th. Somo leaves were found in neighbouring fields and (the binding) in a canal distributary. Throo :VIuslims of the village were sent for trial under 'Section 295, Indian Penal Code, but were acquitted.
(b) Government is aware that a Diwan was held at Jhang on .October ·j}Oth, 1927, at which a resolution was passed condemning the desecration of .the Granth Sahib. Government had previously carefully examined the .possibility of a successful appeal against the acquittal of the a.6cused, hut were advised that an appeal would be unsuccessful.
DISTRICT INSPECTORS OF SCHOOL, JHA~G.
*893. Lala Bodh Raj : Will the Honourable the Minister for Eduea ·.tion please state-
(a) whether it is a fact that the District Inspector of Schools, Jhang, and all his assistants are Muhammadans;
(b) for how long the District Inspector of Schools has been a.t the station ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) No. ilhe District Inspee ·tor and three Assistant District Inspectors are Muslims, and one Assist.ant .District Inspector is a Hindu.
(b) Since October 1926.
ADMISSION OF STUDENTS TO NORMAL CLASSES, JHANG.
*892. Lala Bodh Raj: (a) Will the Honourable the Minister for Edu ..catiou please state if it is a fact that some of the candidates who were declared . medically unfit were admitted to the normal classes at Jhang, and, if so, .to which community did they belong ?
(b) Will he also state whether any candidates who were fit a.11 ,round were rejected, and, if so, to which community did they belong?
The Honourable Mr. Maaohar Lal : (a) No. (b) Yes. Eleven Muslims and fifteen non-Muslims were refused ad
mission. Limitations of accommodation prevent the admission of every .. -applicant who is physically fit,
1893 STARRl!ID QUBSTIONS AND ANSWBRS,
LIQUOR SHOPS.
480. Rana Firoz-ud .. Din Khan : Will the Honourable the Minister· for Agriculture please lay on the table a statement showing-
(a.) the number of licensed liquor shops of both country and foreign liquor, in the province in the years 1920 and 1927 respeotively;
~ (l,) the quantity of country and foreign liquor ~nsmned in th~& years respectively and its approximat-e prioe ;
EXPENDITURE ON NIGHT SCHOOLS.
479. Rao Bahadur Lieutenant Rao Balbir Singh : Will the· Honourable the Minister for Education please state-
(a) the amount of money spent on the education of adults by means of night schools in Gurgaon, Rohtak and Hissar districts during the last 2 years, and the number of adults that have been given certificates of literacy ;
(b) has this amount been spent through local bodies and if so, how much has been given to private institutions of this type in t be form of aid ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: Enquiries are being madEt and a reply will be sent to the honourable member when ready.
NC'MBER OF SUSPENSIONS, &c., BY THE (){RCLE REGISTRAstt, SHAHPUR.
4.78. Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will the Honourable the Minister J!or· Agricultwe please state the number of co-operative officers community wise who have been suspended, degraded and deprived of promotion since the present Circle Registrar has been posted in Shahpur, Gujra.t Circle?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: I regret that tha answer to this question is not yet ready. A reference has been made to the Registrar, Co-operative Societies, Punjab.
"GNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
~!R. GYAN SAG.Alt, Ex .J AILOR.
. ~895. Lala Bodh Raj: (a) Will the Honourable M~er for B-e,enue- . please state whether the people of Jhang can keep a sword: withoat a .li~~ 't
(b) If the reply to (a) be in the affirmative will the 'honourable member please state the reasons why warrants were issued aga.inst Mr. Gian Sa.gar~ son of Lala. Jinda Ram, e.i:-Ja.ilor, for keeping a sword without a licence in Jhang?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain : (a) The attention of the honourable member is invited to entry 3-A., in Schedule II of the Indian Arms Rules, 1924.
(b) A warrant was not issued against Mr. Gian Sagar on the ground that he was in possession of a sword without a licence.
[24TH Nova. 1927 • . PUNJAB LE"GISirX!ll:V:lil C0UNmL.
481. Dr. Gokul Chand, Narang : Will the Honourable the Finanee Member be pleased to state-
(a) whether Government contemplates giving any relief to those citizens of Rawalpindi who suffered in the conflagration of 1926;
(b) by what time the relief can be expected to reach the sufferers; (c) the means adopted or about to be adopted to secure funds for
the relief; (d) whether in the proposed scheme of taxation iit is intended to
impose burden on the actual sufferers ?
the Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) Yes. {b) Assessments· are being made; but realizations and payments will be
spread out over 4 years.
T.A.XATION ON THE SL"HERERS OF RAWALPINDI FIRE,
71,28,364
57,31,060 Country liquor. 13, 97 ,304 Foreign liquor.
68,02,361 18,27,541
86,29,902
Income ilericed by Government (including income from beer). Rs. Rs.
Consumption of Jo-reign li'quor (excluding beer) in gallons. 140,515 100,887
Approximate price of.
A verage retail price of spirit per gallon is given in clumns 5 and 6 of statement D. of the Exeis« Reports for the years in question.
297 ,7 57 (excluding exJ.)OrtM'r · 545,271
(c) the income derived by Government throngh this source fn thes& years?
The Honourable Sardar Jog~ndra Singh : Country liquor shops.
1919-20. 1926-27. 666 661
Foreign liquor shops. Foreign spirit 95 104 Beer 28 24 Con.sumption of country liquor in gallons (L. P, gallo-ns).
UN8TARR:ED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. 1895
APPOINTMENT OF PROVINCIAL CIVIL SERVICE OFFICERS TO
LISTED POSTS.
484. Lala Moh!ln Lal : (1) Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to fay on the table a copy ol the rules governing the appointment of members of the Provincial Civil Service to listed posts?
(2) How many listed posts are at present sauctione i on the Executive and Judicial sides respectively ?
ABOLITION OF DIVISIONAL CoMMISSIO~ERSHlFS.
483. Lala Mohan Lal: Will the Honourable Member for ll'inanee be _pleased to state--
(a) whether it is a fact that some years ago there was a proposal to abolish the Divisional Commissionerships in the Punjab ;
(b) the outcome of that proposal ? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) Yes. (b) The Retrenchment Committee of the Legislative Council, which
t1at in 1922 and which included majority of non-official members, unani mously arrived at the conclusion that it was undesirable to abolish Divi sional Commissionerships. It, however, recommended the reduction of the number of Commissioners from five to three. Government, on examination of this alternative proposal, cams to the conclusion that the small saving which would thus be made, amounting to about Rs. 1} lakhs per annum, would not compensate for the loss of efficiency and inconvenience to the pub· lie involved. The proposal was, therefore, not proceeded with.
482. Lala Mohan Lal: (a) Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to state whether there are any of the distinctions between a "Regulation and a. non-Regulation province still being maintained in the Punjab ?
(b) If not, does the Government intend to alter the designation of Deputy Commissioners to Collectors and that of Financial Commissioners to •• Board of Revenue "as is the case in the Regulation Provinces?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: (a) Yes. If the honourable member will refer to sections 30 and 34 of the Criminal Procedure Code, he will see that one important distinction between Regulation and non-Regulation provinces is that only in the latter, may Magistrates be granted enhanced powers of punishment.
(b) Does not arise.
CHA.NOE OF DESIGNATION OP' DEPUTY COMMISSIONERS AND FINANCIAL COMMISSIONERS.
mu-. Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency -l (c) A levy under section 15 (A) of the Police Act, Vof 1861. (d) Not if they are free from blame in respect of the occurrence which
led to the injury.
[24TH N OVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLA.rIVE COUNCIL, 1896.
THE GAZETTE OF INDJA, APRIL 1, 1922. EsTABLISHMENTS.
Th~ 30th ]Yfarch 1922.
No. F.-438.-In exercise of the power conferred by sub-section (2) of -section 99 of the Government of India. Act, and in supersession of the rules -published in the Home Department, Notification No, 598-Establishments, -dated the 2.lst June 1918, the Governor-General in Council is pleased to
(3) Three posts are held substantively by Muhammadans and one by sn Indian Christian. Two posts remain vacant, promotions to which will be made shortly.
(4) No. Promotions are made by selection, due regard being paid to -seniority of service; communal representation does not enter into consi deration in this matter.
(5) The matter subsequently came under the consideration of the Royal Commission on the Superior Civil Services during 1923 and the orders of
·the Secretary of State on the recommendation contained in paragraph 36 of their report are that within a period of 15 years from the 1st April 1924, 20 per cent. of the superior posts on the Indian Civil Service cadre in each province are to be filled by the promotion of officers of the Provincial Civil flervices, or by the appointment of member; from the Bar.
(6) The principles to be followed in giving effect to the orders of the . Secretary of State are under the consideration of the Government of India.
(7) Eighty-one.
(3) Is it a fact that the permanent incumbents of the listed posts on the ."Executive side, with the exception of an Indian Christian, are all Muham .madans ?
(4) If the reply to (3) is iu the affirmative, does Govermwmt propo.se .to fill the future vacancies by the appointment of qualified Hindus until .rhe proportion of the two communities is more or less equalised ?
(5) What effect, if any, has been given to the recommendations contained (i) in the resolution passed in the Legislative Assembly on 17th Fehrua.ry 1921, and (ii) in the resolution passed in the Punjab Legislative Council on 28th July 1921, that the number of listed posts be raised at once to 25 peI! cent of the Superior Civil Service posts ?
(6) If no effect has yet been given, will the Chief Secretary please state the cause of delay and also the approximate date by which a decision jg likely to be arrived at ?
(7) What was the total number of Superior Civil Service posts on l st April . .1927?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: (1) A copy of Government of India, Home Department, Notification No. F.-438-Ests., dated 30th March 1922, con taining the rules on the subject is placed on the table.
(2) Judicial. Executive. 7 6
189'7 UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
{lYir. H, w. Emersou.] . . . prescribe the following rules, whieh have seen sanctioned by the Secretary· of State in Council with· the concurrence of a majority of votes at a meeting of the Council of India. :- ·
I, Witk the previous sanction of the Governor-General in Oouncil and of the. Secretary of State in Council the Local Government may, by notification in the official Gazette, declare the number of superior executive· and judicial offices, being offices ordinarily filled from amongst the members of the Indian Civil Service, to which, subject to the provisions of sub-section (l)-of section 99 of the Government of India Act, persons not being members, _ of the Indian Civil Service may be appointed.
2. Within the limit of number declared under rule 1 'the Local Gov·· ernment may appoint-
( i) to a superior executive office a member of the Punjab Civil Ser vice subordinate to the Local Government,
(ii) to a superior judicial office a member of the Punjab Civil Service· subordinate to the Local Government, or a persons who at the· time of the appointment is-
( a) a Barrister of England or Ireland or a member of the Faculty of Advocates in Scotland ; or
(b) a Vakil, Pleader, Advocate or Attorney of a High Court in India; or
(c) a, Pleader, or Advocate of a Chief Court of a Judicial Com· rnissioner's Court ; or
(d) a Pleader of a District Court ; and in respect of such quali fication is of not less than five years' standing.
S. Notwithsatnding anything contained in rule 2, the Local Govern·· ment may, within the limit of number declared under rule 1, appoint to a superior executive or judicial office any person not having the qualifications· prescribed for such otlice by rule 2 :
Provided that the number of persons so appointed shall not amount to· more than 15 per cent. of the total number of superior offices declared under· rule 1.
4. The Local Government may, by notification in the local official. gazette, declare the number of inferior offices, being offices required under the provisions of section 98 of the Government of India Act to be filled from
.amongst the members of the Indian Civil Service, to which, subject to the provisions of sub-section (1) of section 99 of the said Act, persons not being members of the Indian Civil Service may be appointed.
5. Within the limit of number declared under rule 4, the Local Gov· ernment may appoint to an inferior executive office any person having the· qualifications prescribed by rule 2 or appointment to a superior judicial. office.
6. In addition to appointments made under the foregoing rules, when ever the exigencies of the public service so require, the Local Government may, subject to. the provisions of sub-section (1) of section 99 of the Govern ment of India. Act, appoint. for a period not exceeding six months, any person. not being a member of the Indian Civil Service to any office ordinarily filled from amongst the members of the Indian Civil Service.
..
. PUNJ'AB LEGlSLATt~ collll-Olt, : [24TH N OVR. 1927 -
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(a) The variation is due t o changes having been introduced by the Government of India ·in the system of calculat inz rrcruit mcnt. to th Indian Civil Service.
(b) Includes 9 te mporary appointments of Extra Aasista.nt. C. mmiasioners, (e] Includes 4-6 temporary appointments of Extra Assistant. Commissioners and 90 appoint
ments of ::\-lunsitT~. Frc m the Ist April 1921 l\Tunsitfs became regular members of the Punjab Cii.il Beni<,e.
(d) On the l st April 1!)27 the execut.ive r-a dre was revised and the number of Extra A~sis font Commissicnc rs fixe d at, 23!). This inert 2H' meant the a bsorption of 52 te mporary appoint. men ts which experience had shown should ccntinue on n permanent basis. With the separation of the Executive and Judicial Branches in 1923, the strength of the Judicial Branch was fixed; dl~ .
,,
---- 1st April lst April lst April
1914. 1921. 1927.
I (a)
·Indian Civil Service .. I mo 154 14'2 I (b) (e) (d)
Provincial Civil Service I 190 339 403
INDIAN CIVIL SERVICE AND PROVINCIAL CIVIL <SERVICE.
486. Lala Mohan Lal: Will the Chief Secretary please state the sanctioned strength of members of the Indian Civil Service and the Provin cial Civil Service, respectively, on the Ist April 1914, 1st April 1921, and 1st April 1927?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: A statment giving the required information is laid on the table.
Statement showing the sanctioned strength of the Indian Civil Service and the Provincial Civil Service.
BAR TO PROVINCIAL CIVIL SERVICE OFFICERS TO HOLD CERTAIK POSTS.
485. Lala Mohan Lal : (1) Will the Honourable lf.elll.ber for Finance be pleased to state whether there is any statutory bar ·~ a member of th& Provincial Civil Service holding a listed post being appointed a-
( i.) Member of the Executive Council; (ii} Judge of the High Court ;
(iii) Financial Commissioner , (iv) Commissioner M Secretary to Government
(Di) Head oi Department ? (2) Is it a fact that no holder of a listed post has, hitherto, with·
the exception oI one judge of the High Court and one Head of Department, ever been permanently appointed to any of the above mentioned posts?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The answer to; both parts of the question is in the negative.
7, The Local .Government may declare atty person appointed under· these rules to be appointed on probation only, and ~I\Y ~¢be the terms and conditions of such probation. ·
8. The Local Government may at any time s~ and ,removse any person whom it has appointed to .any office under th~se.nl~.
SEPARATION OF JUDICIAL AND EXECUTIVE FUNCTIONS,
488. Lala Mohan Lal: (i) Will the Honourable Member for Finance please state (a) what action has so far been taken in connection with the .proposel to separate the Judicial from the Executive functions which it is .understood has been engaging attention of the Government for the past .msny years ;
(b) the decision, if any, in the matter? (ii)_li no decision has yet been arrived at, will the Honourable Member
-for Finance please state how long it will take Government to come to a de cision ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : The steps which have been taken by Government since 1921, when a committee was appointed to investigate and make recommendations in 1921, are as fol
'.'lows :- (i) The Punjab Civil Service Judicial Branch has been completely
separated from the Punjab Civil Service Executive and is now separately recruited and trained,
(ii) Magisterial powers have been taken away from departmental officers as recommended by the committee,
(iii) Government has added to the strength of the Punjab Civil Ser vice with a view to secure the more rapid and efficient disposal of criminal work by Magistrates. All districts now have Magil• trates, who have been relieved of Executive duties and concentrate on magisterial work. Government do not propose to take any further steps at the present time.
<b)--'Wd fu} Do not arise.
JOINT FINANCIAL SECRETARY.
487. Lala Mohan Lal : (1) Will the Honourable Member for Finance 'be pleased to say if the Devolution Rules contemplate the appointment of =a Joint Financial Secretary to be appointed after consultation with Mini sters and especially charged with the duty of examining and dealing with financial questions arising in relation to transferred subjects ?
(2) H the reply to the above is in the affirmative will the Honourable Member for Finance be pleased to say if the question of the appointment
-of a Joint Financial Secretary has ever been examined and if not, whether the Government proposes to app oint such an officer in the near future 'l
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : (1) By Gov . ernment of India notification No. F.-290-29-25, dated the 15th July 1926, the Devolution Rules were amended, and among other amendments it was provided that if the Ministers in a Governor's Province so desire, the Gover nor shall, after consultation with the Ministers, appoint a Financial Adviser, whose duly it shall be to assist the Ministers in the preparation of proposals for expenditure and generally to advise the Ministers in matters relating to finance.
(2) The Honourable Ministers have not up to the present desired that -suoh a Financial Adviser should be appointed.
[24Ta Novn.1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COlJNCIL,
~·~---~-
(ii) It is proposed to increase the number of Under-Secretaries in the· Civil Secretariat from 2 to 8.
{iii) Nine only. (iv) Twenty-five appointments are held by Europeans, of whom 5 ·
are of Asiatic domicile, 4 are held by Indians, 9 by members of the Indian Civil Service, 3 by members of the Provincial Civil Service and 17 by others.
(v) Government does consider and will consider the claims of Indians of the Indian Civil Service and the Provincial Civil Service · for appointment to Secretariat posts for which they are eligible- and qualified. ..
29 Total
5 Assistant Secretaries
Under-Secretaries
2 8, of whom 2 are also Secretaries
to the Financial Commis sioners.
9, including the Inspector-General! of Police and the Director of Public Instruction.
... Joint Secretaries Deputy Secretaries
At>iiol'.N'i'MENT OF INDIANS A~ SECRETARIES, &o., IN THE SECRETARIAT.
489. .Lala Mohan Lal : Will the Chief Secretary. be pleased to· ata.te (i) the strength of Secretaries, Deputy, Under and Assistant Ssoretariess attl\Ched to the Secretaria t ; ·
(ii) whether there is any proposal to increase the number of such ap- · pointments, and if so, by how many;
(iii) which of the appointments comprised in (i) are reserved for members· of the Indian Civil Service ;
(iv) which of these are held by Europeans and Indians and which by· members of the Indian Civil Service and the Provincial Civil Service respec-: tively;
(v) whether Government will please consider the desirability of appoint-· ing qualified Indians both from the Indian and Provincial Civil Services in larger numbers to these posts?
Mr. H. W. Emerson : It is assumed that the honourable member· desires information regarding the Public Works Department Secretariat' as well as the Civil Secretariat and that he wishes to be included in the list of Secretaries, &c., those Heads of Departments such as the Chief Engineers,. the Inspector-General of Police, the Director of Public Instruction,, &c.,. who are also Secretaries or Under-Secretaries to Government. On this· assumption the replies are as follows :- '
(i) Secretaries 10
140f UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
RECRUITMENT OF PROVINCIAL SERVlCE OFFICERS TO INDIAN CIVIL SERVHJE CA.DRE.
492. Lala Mohan Lal: (i) Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to -state whether there is any proposal to recruit, members of the Indian Civil
.Service from among Provincial Civil Service officers?
(it) If so, when the final decision is likely to be arrived at in the matter?
Mr~ H. 'W. Em9rson: No recommendation for the recruitment of -members of: the Indian Ci.vii S~rv.iee- from amoug Provincial Civil Service . offi,,cers was mads. by, the Lee Commission and no sueh proposal is under -oonsidetation, The: q]le11:f;fon, of tl,te exact number of the Provincial Civil ,service to be appointed to ' listed posts ' bas not yet been. decided.
491. Lala Mohan Lal: Will Chief Secretary be pleased to -state : (a) how far the policy of Indianisation of superior services has progressed in the Punjab during the past five years ,
(b) the total number of superior posts to which members of the Indian Civil Service are usually appointed and, how many of these posts are at
· present held hy Indians ;
(c) the corresponding figures five years ago ?
lb. H~ W. E111ersen: The information is being collected and will be -eommunieated to the honourable member when ready.
lNDIANISATION OF SERVICES.
(SO,. Lala P4o1-an Lal = { i) Will the Honourable Revenue ~fora her be pleased to state (i) whether Government is aware that the number of motor
-oar accidents j \ t.'1e Punjab during recent timeshas increased considerably -~
. (ii) the speci ~l steps, if any, that. Government hss h!rnn or contem- plates taking. to" obviate such accidents ?
The HonQura.ble Mian Sir Faal-i-Husain » (i) Government is not in possession of statistics, but it is a fact that a number of serious motor acci dents have recently occurred.
(id) Steps have been taken to strengthen the controlling staffs on the Dalhousie, Dharmsala and Simla Roads regarding which many complaints have been received, and a flying squad of police has been sanctioned for the main arteries in the plains upon which the volume of motor traffic is con- siderable. The whole question of controlling motor traffic more closely and efficiently, especially vehicles, which ply for hire and cater for the public will shortly be examined, and it is not possible to say at present what the r.~su1ts will be.
P:alilVEN.TIO-N OF MOTOR, ACCIDENTS,
[24TH Nova, 1927. 1-\fN.JA.B LEQISJ;,ATlVE COUNCIL.
PE~SION RULES.
495. Lala Mohan Lal: Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state when the new pension rules both for provincial and subor dinate services, which are at present under revision, are likely to he avail- able to the public? ·
The Ho11ourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmore~cy: The hoaourabla member is referred to the answer given to asimilar 1question No. 868 (star red) put by Sardar Habib Ullah :at the last session of the Council. It is not -possible to. say when the new rwes will be ready and available to the public.
1.b,g& 898 -a\o~.
494. Lala Mohan Lal : Will the Honourable tte Finance Member be pleased to state---
(1) the num bar of applications for commutation of pensions which were received in each of the preceding three years ; ·
(2) the number of those that were accepted and of those that were rejected ;
(8) the total amount involved in each category? The Ho11ourable Si~ Geoffrey deMontmorency: 'I'he information
is being collected. It will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
COMMUTATI@N OF PENSIO:'.'IS.
APPOINTMENT OF INDIA.NS AS I SECRETARIES, ETC •
. 493. Lala Mohan Lal: (1) Will the Chief Secretary please state 'if his attention has been drawn to Government of India, Home Depart ment, No. F.-29-23-Estbt., dated Simla, the 7th May, 1923, regarding the appointment of Indians as Secretary, Joint-Secretary or Deputy Secre -tary in every department of the Government of India, a copy of which -was laid on the table of the Legislative Assembly on 16th July, 1928?
(2) If so, will he, with reference to paragraph 2 thereof, please say how many persons classified as-
( i) members of the Indian Civil Service, (ii) members of the Provincial Civil Service,
(iii) members of the Bar, and (iv) others,
-Oovernment has recommended during the past four years for such appoint ments and how many of each class were eventually appointed?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: (1) Yes.
(2) It is contrary to practice to publish any recommendations made to the Government of India.
1400· VNSTARREB QVESTION-S A.NT/ ANSWEI\S.
GA7,E'f'.fE. - APPOINTMENTS, POSTIN.GS AND TRANSFERS.
The 16th October 1928. No~ 24019.- In exercise of the powers conferred by section 22 (2) or
the Punjab Courts Act, VI of 1918, as amended by{Act, IX of 1922, the-
HOME DEPART:VIE~·r.
APPOINTME::-;!T oF EXTRA AssrnTANT Co111M1ss10NERS AND Sun-JuoGES. 497. Lala Mohan Lal: Will the Chief Secretary please lay on the
table a copy of the latest rules regulating the appointment of Extra. Assistant. Commissioners and Sub-Judges, respectively ?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: The rules relating to the appointment of Sub· Judges are, laid on the table. The rules relating to the appointment of Extra. Assistant Commissioners are at present under revision. When the revision is complete, ·they will be laid on the table.
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : 1:111:ie prepara · tion of the statement would involve employing special staff and entail an amount of trouble out of proportion to the value of the information, and Government cannot undertake to prepr.re it.
A!l'ount involved.
t. Pensioners of one year's standing and under
2. Pensioners of over one, but less than five years' standing
S. Pensioners of over five, but less than ten years' standing
4. Pensioners of over ten, but less than :fifteen years' standing
5. Pensioners of over fifteen, but less than twenty years' standing
6. Pei:isioners of over twenty years' stand· mg
Number.
Total
CIVIL PENB10NERS.
496. Lala Mohan Lal: Will the Honourable the Finance Ma~ber please lay on the table a statement. showing the number of civil pensioners oil 1st April, 19'27 classified an%rdin~ to the following scale:-
[24TH N OVR. 1927 ... PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1404
··--------~-------1111
Governor in Council, after consultation with the High Court, is pleased to make the following mies as to the qualifications of persons to be appointed Subordinate Judges in the Punjab. These rules will not apply to persons who have been selected as candidates for the post of Munsif or Subordinate Judge before the publication 0£ these rules :-
RuLES.
1. Only such persons shall be eligible for appointment to the post of Subordinate Judge as shall be--
{i) Natives of India as defined in Statute 83, Victoria Chapter 3, section 6, or subjects of Indian States in India-
(a) Domiciled in, or (b) Having resided for at least 3 continuous years in the Punjab,
or the Delhi Province or in an Indian State under the political control of the Government of the Punjab, or in an Indian State under the political control of the Government of India. exercised through the Agent to Governor-General for the Punjab States, or
(ii) European British subjects who shall have resided for r,t least 3 continuous years in the Punjab or in Delhi Province, or in an Indian State. under the political control of the Government of the Punjab, or in an Indian State under the political control of the Government of Indie exercised through the Agent to the Governor-General for the Punjab States.
2. No person shall be appointed to be a Subordinate Judge who is less than 23 or more than 27 years of age on the date of his appointment : pro vided that Barristers, Vakils and Pleaders who are actually practising in the High Court at Lahore or Courts subordinate thereto will be allowed to lllb· tract from their age a period equal to the length of time during which •hey have actually been practising up to a. maximum of 8 years.
8. No person shall be appointed to be a Subordinate Judge who has. not obtained the degree of Bachelor of Laws at the Punjab University, or is not a Barrister of England or Ireland or a member of the Faculty of Advocate of Scotland.
Provided that this rule may, with the concurrence of the High Court,. be relaxed in the case of candidates of European or Anglo-Indian descent when the Local Government is satisfied that adequate reasons exist for such relaxation.
4. No person shall be appointed to be a Subordinate Judge who has not a thorough knowledge of the Vernacular. If Urdu is not his verna cular, he must have passed the examination by the Lower Standard in that language as laid down in the Army Regulations, India. If it is his verna cular, he must give satisfactory evidence that he can read Urdu fluently and write the Persian character with facility.
5. No person shall be appointed to be a Subordinate Judge who cannot give satisfactory evidence of-
(i) good moral character, (ii) good physique,
(iii) habits of personal sot; vity, and (iv) gentlemanly bearing.
j 1 j
.l ,,1
1405. STA.BRED QUESTIONS A..J>ID ANSWERS.
I
j I
I
APPOINTMENT OF OFFICERS OF THE PUNJAB TO GOVERNMENT OF lNI>IA, POLITICAL DEPARTMENT ..
499. Lala Mohan Lal : Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to state (1) how many persons from the Punjab have been appointed to the
Political Department of the Government of India during the past five years;
(2) how many of these were Europeans and how many Indians ; (3) how many of them, respectively, belong to the Indian Civil Ser
vice, Military, Provincial Civil Service and other services; (4) whether the Local Government makes recommendations at fixed
intervals or at any fixed time of the year or whenever such recommendations are called for by the Government of India ;
(5) when the Local Government's recommendations were last in vited 'l
RETIREMENT OF MEMBERS OF INDIAN CIVIL SERVICE ON PROPOR TIONATE PENSIONS.
498. Lala Mohan Lal: Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to •tate-
(1) how many members of the Indian Civil Service have applied for retirement on proportionate pensions since 1921 ;
(2) how many of these eventually retired and how many withdrew their applications
(3) whether any such applications are still pending? If so, how many? Mr. H. W. Emerson: 'I'he honourable member presumably refers to
members of the Indian Civil Service who have served or are serving in the Punjab. On this assumption the answers to his question are- ·
(1) 15. (2) Thirteen have retired and two are on leave preparatory to retire
ment. (S) No applications are at present pending.
C. A.H. 'rOWNSEND, O.fJ.q. Chief 8er:retary to Gooemmeni, Punjab.
[Mr. H. W. Emerson.] 6. No recruitment shall be made from other service!'! 01· from ministerial
eatablishments, but a person eligible under these rules will not become ineligible merely because he belongs to another department or to a minis teris I service.
7. Nothing in these rules shall be held to debar the Local Government from appointing after consultation with the High Court any Assistant Commissioner, Extra Assistant Commissioner, Cantonment Magistrate, .Assistant Cantonment Magistrate, 'I'ahsildar to be a Subordinate Judge by virtue of his office, notwithstanding that he shall not possess any of the qualifications laid down therein.
[24TH N OVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1406
-----.,.,.....----~---···-·"
E2
1'EMPORARY ADDITIONAL ExTRA Ass1sTA)<'r Co1111ussroNERS.
501. Lala Mohan Lal : Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to state the present number of temporary Additional Extra Assistant Com· missioners in the Punjab and the time by which they are likely to be ab· sorbed in the permanent cadre of the Provincial Civil Service ?
CALCULATION 0.1!' SERVICI,l OF 'fEMPORARY ADDITIONAL AND SUB. pro teni. EXTRA AssrsTANT COMMISSIONERS.
500. Lala Mohan Lal : {1) Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to state whether it is a fad that the period of service rendered by temporary addi tional and sub. pro tern. Extra Assistant Commissioners since lat January 1922, the date on which the Fundamental Rules came into force, has been allowed to count for increment in the time-scale, but not the period of such service rendered prior to that date ?
(2) If this is so, on what principle is the above decision based? (3) Does the Gov ernment intend to allow all such period of service,
irrespective of any particular date, to count for increment in the time scale ?
Mr. H. W. Emerson: (1) 'l'he honourable member is referred to resolution No. 149, dated the 4th January 1926, which was published in Punqab Gorernment Gaeette, dated the 15th January, 1926, from which he will see that the period of service rendered as a. Temporary Additional Extra Assistant Commissioner from the 1st April 1928 was allowed to count for increments in the time-scale, and that arrears of pay were allowed with effect from the 1st April 1925.
(2) The introduction of a time-scale for Temporary Additional Extra Assistant Commissioners was in the nature of a concession. Ordinarily, retrospective effect is not given to concessions of this nature, but Government, in recognition of the fact that owing to an increase in the recruitment of '.remporary Additional Extra Assisfant Commissioners, appointments to the permanent cadre had been delayed beyond normal expectations, made an exception to tho general principle and allowed retrospective effect from the lst April 1923. The full facts of the case were placed before the Standing Finance Committee in December 1925 in order to obtain the necessary funds by a roappropriation. It was then explained that the officers concerned had asked that their temporary service in the new incremental scale should be allowed to count with retrospective effect from the 1st of April, 1920, but that Government was not prepared to go so far back as this.
(3) The policy of Government was endorsed by the Standing Finance Committee and Government sees no reason to revise the existing orders.
Mr. H. W. Emerson : (1) Four. (2) Two Europeans, 2 Indians. (8) Two belonged to the Indian Civil Service and two belonged to the
Punjab Provincial Service. (4) The Local Government makes recommendations when invited to
do so by the Government of India. (5) June 1927.
1407 UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
r
I I
504. I.ala Mohan La] : Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to state what specific appointments in the Punjab are reserved under the third schedule to. section 98. or under any other section of the Government of In.<li~ Act. to members of the Indian Civil_ Service and how many appoint ments were actually helrl by thsm on 1st April, 1~27?
:8ESERVATION Oli' APPOINTMENTS UNDER THE GOVERNMENT Oh' lNolA AcT.
$03. Lala Moh.au Lal: (a) Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to st~te whether it is a fact that until a few years ago one appointment of Under Secretary to Government used to be included ii} the cadre of listed posts, but is no longer so included ?
(b) If this is so, will the Chief Secretary please state why it has been excluded from the category of listed posts ?
Mr. H. W. Emerson : The post in question is still "Listed " as an inforior Indian Civil Service appointment to which members of the Provincial Civil Service may be appointed.
EXCLUSION OF THE POST Olf UNDER SECRETARY FROM LIRTJ.ll) POSTS.
(b) The. post is reserved for a member of the Indian Civil Service.
Mr. H. W. Emerson: (a) Yes.
502. Lala Mohan Lal : Will tho Chief Secretary be pleased to state-
(a) whether it is a fact that no Indian has hitherto been appointed as Registrar of the Lahore High Court, and that no Indian was ever appointed as Registrar of the Chief Court, Punjab ;
(b) whether it is a fact that the said post is not reserved to a member of the Indian Civil Service ?
AJ:>PODJTMENT OF AN INDIAN AS REGISTRAR, LAHORE HIGH COURT.
Mr. H. W. Emerson: A notification is under issue, the effE>ct of which win be to bring all the temporary additional Extra Assistant Commissioners existing on 1st March, 1927 on to the regular cadre with retrospective effect from that date. During the current year only 12 temporary appointments have been created, and if suitable, the temporary Extra Assistant Com missioners will be absorbed in the regular cadre as vacancies occur. It is anticipated that it will not take more than a year for a temporary additional to come on to the regular cadre in future.
[24TH :N' OVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1408
r-:-·~_.,.,..,-.....,...,..,.,..,.... ~-""I':'··-,.---. .. --· .
1Incltldcs 6 Set.tlement Officers.
108 Total
73 35
Indian Civil Service Punjab Civil Service
On the Ist Api·il, 1927, 89 of these appointments were held substan tively by members of the Indian Civil Service and 13 by members of the Punjab Civil Service holding 'Listed ' posts. But, owing to leave; depttta. tion and other vacancies, the 108 appointments on that date were actually filled as follows :--
108
27
Inferior appointments. 2.5 Assistant Commissioners.
2 Under Sec1·etaries to Government.
81
s,u-perfor posts.
1 Member of Council. 'I
3 High Court Judges. 2 Financial Commissioners. l Chief Secretary. 5 Commissioners. 2 District and Sessions Judges, selection grade. 4 Secretaries to Government. 1 Legal Remembrancer and Secretary, Legislative Department. 1 Registrar, Co-operative Societies. l Deputy Regi,itrar, Co-operative Societies. 1 Director of Land Records. l Registrar, High Court. 2 Secretaries to Financial Commissioners. 1 Judge, Small Cause Court, Simla.
1 35 Deputy Commissioners. 20 District; and Sessions Judges, time-scale.
Mr. H. W. Enienon: The following appointments in the Punjab are reserved for members of the Indian Civil Service:-
1409 UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
ScuRRILOUs ATTACKS ON Gtratr GoBIND SrNGH J1 IN "LIGHT."
506. Sardar Ujjal Singh: Will the Honourable Member for Fi nance be pleased to state : (a) whether his attention has been drawn to the issue of the liight, dated 16th August, 1927 in which scurrilous attacks are made on Guru Gobind Singh Ji;
(b) whether the Honourable Member is also aware that great indig nation prevails in the Sikh community over this matter ;
Mr. H. W. Emerson: The information is being collected and will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
NUMBER HELD NuMB¥BBLD BY EUROl'RANS. BY J:NDTA.llfB,
N um be r 0 .,.; 0 0 .... ....
Sanctioned reserved to .. 0 0
"' strength, members of tJ e Tndien 0 "' "' Civil Service. ]~ "' l!1 rLi t' .. too [o E "' ai "' .s 'a ,.; .. .::, . ,.c • 's~ so :S ao 13 .. ;!:l "'c,j ~~ ~ ~,-.; ~ :.=1P=1 " . ~?< 0 :st-< 0
-- -- -- -- -- -- I. Members of Execu- tive Council ..
s, Judges of High Court ..
3. Financial Commis- sioners ..
4. Commissioners .. 5. Secretaries and c.. Deputy and Under- I
Secretaries to Gov- ernment ..
6. Heads of Depart. men ta ..
7. District and Sessions Judges ..
8. Deputy Oornmis- sioners ..
9. Settlement and Co- I Ionisa tion Officers .•
IO. Assistant Commis-
1-~ aioners ..
-- -- -- -- -- -- Total ..
MEMBEBS oF EXECUTIVE CouNOIL.
505. Lala Mohan Lal : Will the Chief Secretary be pleased to lay on the table a statement giving the following information :-
[24TH Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOUNOIL, 1410
REMOVAL OF GURU GRANTH SAHIB FROM DHARAMSALA SHEIKH CHUHAR.
507. Sardar Ujjal Singh: Will the Honourable the Finance Mem ber be pleased to state-
(a) whether Government is aware that Guru Granth Sahib, the Sikh scripture was sacrilegiously removed from inside the Dharm sala Sheikh Chuhar, District Jhang, on the night between 9th and 10th June, 1927 and was torn to pieces by one Khudayar, son of Jiwana ;
(b) whether Government is aware that the accused admitted his guilt before Sardar Gulab Singh and others in a large Muham madan gathering, and that he was acquitted by the Magis trate;
(c) whether it is a fa.ct that Deputy Commissioner, Jhang, suspended the Lamhardar of Village Sheikh Chuhar for not reporting the matter to the District authorities in time ;
(d) whether it is a fact that the District Magistrate reinstated the Lambardar about a fortnight after on the recommendation of the 'I'ahsildar ;
(s) whether it is a fact that the District Magistrate refused to sup ply copy o.f a suspension order to Sardar Kirpal Singh on administrative grounds, while a copy of the reinstatement order was supplied to one Muhammad Shah interested in the case ;
(J) what action, if any, does the Government propose to take in the matter ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) Government is aware that a copy of the Granth Sahib was missing from a Dharamsala in village Sheikh Chuhar on June 10th. Some leaves were found in neigh· bouring fields and the binding in a canal distributary. Three Muslims of the village were sent for trial under section 295, Indian Penal Code, but were acquitted.
(b) One of the prosecution witnesses stated in court that Sardar Gulab Singh, President of the Singh Sabha, Maghiana, at a meeting of the villagers of Sheikh Chuhar offered to compromise the offence provided the culprits asked for pardon in the meeting, and that the accused accordingly stood up. This assurance was subsequently withdrawn.
(c) the action the Government has taken against the Editor, Printer and Publisher of the said paper for publishing such filthy writing against the founder of the Sikh religion ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: (a) The attention of Government was drawn to a letter appearing in the Light of 16th August, 1927.
(b) Government understands that exception has been taken to this letter.
(c) In view of the fact that an apology was published later, and that the Editor, Printer and Publisher are being prosecuted for other articles in the same issue of the paper, Government does not propose to take any action.
1411 UNSTA-RRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
DEPARTMENTAL PUNISHMENTS AWARDED BY CHAUDHRY ABDUL HAMID KHAN, CIRCLE REGISTRAR.
509. Sardar Ujjal Singh: Will tho Honourable Minister for Agriculture please state-
(a) the number of Sikh and Hindu Inspectors, Sub-Inspuotors and other officials working in different positions under Chaudhri Abdul Hamiel Khan. Circle Registrar of Gujranwala and Sialkot Circle, who received departmontal punishments in ono way or the other on his report during April 1927 to Sep· tombor 1927 ;
(b) the number of Muslim officials against whom the said Circle Re gistrar made a report during the same period ;
(c) tho number of Sikh Sub-Iuspcctors of consolidation who reverted to their original appointment during the rerµme of Chaudhri Abdul Hamid ;
(d) whHther any ~.ik1; Iuspsctor was reverted to the post of a Sub Inspector (Consolidation) by or on the report of this officer ;
(e) the number of Sikh Camp Clerks who were removed from the service of the Department during this officer's time;
(j) the num ber uf Sikh Suh- Inspectors of Co-operative Credit Socie ties who wore dismissed during this officer's period ;
{g) the number of Sikh Sub-Inspectors and Inspectors whose promotions were stopped or who were fined ?
EXAMINATION OF SuB-lNSPECTOR CLASS (Co-OPERATIVE DEPARTMENT).
598. Satdar Ujjal Sin~h: Will the Honourable Minister for Agriculture please state-
(a) the number of Muslims aud non-Muslims, respeotivcly, who appeared in the examination of Sub-Inspector's Class (Co operative Department) hold at Sialkot in June, 1927 ;
(b) the number of Muslims and non-Muslims, respectively, who were declared to have passed ;
(c) the community to which the examiner belonged ? The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : I regret that the answer
to this question is not yet ready. A reference has been made to the Regis· trar, Co-operative Societies, Punjab.
{Hon. Sir Geoffrey deMonmorency.] {c) Yes. (d) Government have no information on th!s point. (e) Government have no information on this point. (j) It is not proposed to take any further action. Government con
sidered the possibility of an appeal against the order of acquittal, but were .advised that an appeal was not likely to be successful.
[24TH N OVR, 1927. PUN.JAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, j4J.2
POWER OF DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, KANGRA, TO ISSUE ROAD CEBTIFICATES.
511. Raizada Hans Raj : Will the Honom·;:.ble Member for Revenue be pleased to si:ato-
{a) whether the power of is;;uing road certitlcatos was possessed by every Deputy Couuninsioner who has hold charge of Kangra district ;
(b) whether the J,rede:;e~~ors of the present Deputy Commissioner ha.I that power .:
(c) tho mason for withholding this power from the present Deputy Commissioner up to this time ;
(d) whether it is intended to restore this power to the present Deputy _ Commissioner ?
510. Raizada Hans Raj : Will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased to state->
(a) the names of th" firms -.,.l1idt u.pplicd to the Deputy Counnissiouer, Gurdas pur, for roa.I e,.•rt,ifi,:at.es to rls motor vehicles on the Da1hon~ie-Pat.hm1kot. Road upto the 15th August last and ,,lrn rut os itl which the various firms offernd to earry passen µ\)i.'~: c.~1.1-: goods ;
(b) the basis on which tb, rai.os will b8 fixe,i. ; (c) th» number of road u·rti1foates issued up to this time; (d) the cause of the ikhy, in case no certificates have been issued;
and (") when tho certificates will bo issued '!
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl,.i .. Husain: (a) Tenders were rs ceived from twenty-one firms and individuals. Government i.i not, however, prepared to state the names of these firms and individuals or to give details regarding their tenders.
(b) The maximum rate is being fixed at what appears to Government, after an examination or the whole question in the light of the tenders received, to be a fair figure.
(c), (d) & (e) Government has selected two firms in addition to the Olive Company which will on application be granted road certificates valid for the Dalhousie Road. These firms are about to be informed of their selection, and thereafter they will be granted road certificates in respect of serviceable motor vehicles as soon as they apply for them.
MOTOR VEHICLES PLYING BETWEEN DALHOUSIE AND PATHANKOT,
The Honourable Sardar Jo1endra Singh : I regret that the answer to this question is not yet ready. A reference has been made to the Regis- trar, Co-operative Societies, Punjab. ·
1418 Uc'i'STARRED QUESTlONS .AND ANSWERS.
RE SOL U'.IJION. THE REMOVAL OF ILLITERACY.
The Punjab Government (Ministry of Education) has on more than one occasion in the past few years given expression to a definite opinion that the most pressing educational need of the province at this stage is tha
Proceedings of the Punjab Government (Ministry of Education) in the Education Department, No. 1199-G. S., dated 28th Sep .. tember, 1923.
513. Rao Bahadur Lieutenant Rao Balbir Singh : ,vill tho Honourable }finistet for Education be pleased to state whether there am any rules governing the gnmt-in-aid for adult. education to private bodies and whether these rules have been published ? Will the Honourable Minister for Education he pleased to lay those on the table?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: The honourable member's attention is invited to paragraphs 15, 16 and .17 of Punjab Government (Ministry of Education) Resolution No. 1199-G. S., dated the 28th Septem ber, 1928, a copy of which is laid on the table.
GRANT-IN-AID.
REB'.tRICTION ON MOTOR VEHICLES PLYING IN KANGRA VALLEY AND ON DALHOUSIE-PATltANKOT ROAD.
512. Raizada Hans Raj : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased to state whether road oertificato~ are necessary for motor vehicles plying on Kalka-Simla and Rawalpindi-Munee roads ?
(b) If the answer to (a) be in the negative, will ho state the reasons foJJ imposing this restriction on vehicles plying in the Kangra Valley?
(c) Will the Houonrabls :\Iernber also state the rensons for imposing the above-mentioned restriction on motor vehicles plying on the Dalhousie Pa.tha.nkot road, although there is one-way traffic rule in force ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Faal-i-Hasaia r (a)' Yes. (b) Does not arise. (c) Phe attention of the honourable member is invited to the rules
issued with Punjab Government notification No. 11379, dated the 1st of April, 1922: No motor vehicles can ply for hire in any part of the Punjab without a road cert.ificate. These certificates provide for the maximum rate of hire which may be charged, the maximum number of passengers or quantity of goods which may be carried, and other matters. They are necessary in the interests of the public safety and convenience on the Dalhousie road no less than on any other road.
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: It appears from en quiries made that the power of granting licenses was withdrawn in 1924. It was understood by Government that this had been restored to the Deputy Commissioner, but this has been found not to be the case and instructions will now issue that this should be done.
[24TH N OVR. 1927 • PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
,,
I.~l)I_PROVEMENTS IX '!'HE PRIMARY SYSTEM Of' EDUCA.TIOK.
2. So far as the educatiou of boys is concerned, very marked progress . has been made during the last few years by an
Increased enrolment and its increased enrolment in schools. About 70.000 problems. · . , additional pupils were added m 1921-22; and
about 150,000 m 1922-23. Past experience, however, has indicated many distressing facts. Very many pupils do not proceed beyond the first class, the figures for 1921-22 recording as many as 225,510 pupils in the first class, but only 91,245 in the second, 6!>,280 in the third and 50,496 in the fourth elas», It is obvious t.hat. a considerable prorortion of these boys gain, but little benefit by their schooling. If the real test of educational progress is the reduction of illiteracy, then the largely increased enrolment can only be ro gnrded as contributing towards Hwt progress when tho number of pupils in the fourth class approximate.'l mare closely to that in the first. Again, there are other pupils who, though they remain longer and progress further at school, yet never attain literacy. And, what is even more disheartening, there are even others who, on completion of the primary course, may be termed literate, but soon relapse into illiteracy after leaving school.
3. The Minister is most gratified by the remarkable increase in the enrolment and bv the effective co-operation of
Improvements in the pri- 1 ] b d" " d h I bl" b mary system. oca o res, parents an t fl genera pu ic, ut. he is most keenly anxious to chock the persistence of
the unfortunate defects to which reference has just. been made. He is convinced that tho4Pivot of progress in the primary system is an improvement of the teacher, both in quality and in suitability, and he desires therefore that the policy which has already been framed to effect this improvement should be both maintained and developed.
4. In the matter of the training of vernacular teachers, the Punjab has done much to maintain its already high posi
(~) ~ncreased and !~proved tion among the provinces of India. It is estimated facilities for the training of l rr teachers. t iat more than 10 per cent. of the teachers in
vernacular schools maintained bv Government and by Iocal bodies are trained. 'l'he number of students under training has
removal of illiteracy from among the masses. This need has influenced its policy in the matter of the expansion and improvement of primary educa tion ; and the determination of means and methods by which this great end may be more rapidly achieved has boen engaging its constant and most earnest attention, The matter is of urzent and vital importance from many aspects ; and especially at the present ')uncturn when the decision has been made to reach self-government by successive stages. A persistent con tinuance of illiteracy among the masses is obviously antagonistic to political as well as to other advancement. It is clear that a solution of the problem is not to be found merely in the extension of educational facilities for boys. Experience has proved that. by this method operating alone, the removal of illiteracy is but a slow and tedious process. It. is necessary also to recog nise both the obligation of educating the illiterate adult and also the need for awakening among the illiterate population a living and intelligent interest in their environment and in the matters which pertain to their welfare and advancement.
1415 UNBTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
[Hon. Mr. Manohar Lal.] been increased from 1,076 in 1916-17 to 2,280 in 1922-23, while little diffi <'nlfy is experienced at present in securing the necessary supply- of suitable recruits. Tho percentage of students under training who ri,rn drawn from the agricultural classes has risen from 42 per cent of the total number in 1921 ·22 ~o 55 pelia cent. i~1 the cu~en~ year ; a~d the training co~ses hav.e been rev1soo'"w1th the object of brinzinc them into dok:r touch with condi tions under which the students will cte~~h in village schools. Considerable improvements have also been made in the conditions of service for vernacu lar teachers. In the matter of training, the following observations are -offered i->
(a) 'Phe percentage of trained teachers varies very considerably bot· ween the several districts. 'i.'.bis may be due to tho location of the normal schools, the students finding it inconvenient to go far afield for their training. To meet this difficulty a departure has [email protected] been made. Junior vernacular training classes aro now attached temporarily to the Government high schools at Miauwali, Montgomery, Dharmsalg and Hissar, these being districts which have had difficulty in the past in maintaining an adequate proportion of trained teachers. It may be found desirable to extend this practice by the temper ary attachment of training classes to the Government high schools in those districts which find it difficult to keep pace with the increased requirements for trained teachers. By this means the needs of backward districts will not be over looked.
(b) 'I'he successful efforts which have been made to attract a larger proportion of students from the agriculturist classes to tho normal schools should be continued. Efficiency depends much upon the adaptability of a teacher to his environment and upon his sympathy with the pupils.
(c) It has often been urged that many of tho present teachers are of insufficient age to command the confidence of parents and pupils. Attention is therefore drawn to the necessity of a strict observance of the age limit regulating admission to normal schools.
(d) Particular attention should be paid to the urgency of sending un trained teachers for training. Moreover, it is generally regard ed as desirable that candidates for training should have had some preliminary tt:cLehing experience. Provided, therefore, that the untrained teacher is not retained for too long a period beforo he is sent to his training- course, there is considerable benefit to be derived by thP. students in having had this experience. Ilntained teachers should not ordinarily be given independent cLar,c{e of a school.
5. Closely allied with the expansion and improvement of the training . . system is the urgency of improved conditions of
(b~ Improved conditions of service. Local bodies, during the last few years, service for teachers. b · · h · h have een rev1smg t err rates of salary for teac ers,
[24TH Novn, 1927, PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1416
(e) The substitution of two-teacher for one-teacher schools.
has also observed with some anxiety the fa.ct that; . in certain districts, the number of lower middle
. ( e] A ~atisfa.ctory yropor- schools has a.ct.uallly been reduced. He desires !~t of middle schools 1B need· to emphasize yet again tl;tat a school of six classes is immeasurably better, both in efficiency and
economy, tba,n. tl,.e four claas· primary school ; for it is in the fifth and sixth classea that the pupil, wiua.lly. acquires. a- firm and a. permanent grasp of literacy.
with the result that a junior vernacular teacher starts his career in many. districts on an initial salary of Rs. 25 p0r mensem and in the remaining districts on Rs. 20 pex mensem ; in all cases, with the prospect of small annual increments. A senior vernacular teacher may hope to receive employment on a, salary of about Rs. 85 per mensem, with the customary annual incre ments, up to Rs. 70 or even more. There is, however, a grave danger lest. these enhanced salaries may fail to compensate for the frequency of trans· fer. It is therefore advisable that inspectors should obtain quarterly re turns of transfers so that they may be in a position (if necessary) to correct this abuse.
6. Another -fruitful measure of improvement lies in the substitution of two-teacher for one-teacher schools. Attention has often been directed to the weakness of the one-teacher school and to the burden imposed on the teacher of being responsible unaided for the
teaching of four classes. ln accordance with the conditions laid down in the Edi1cation Department Circular No. 2507.A., dated 19th February 1928, more than l ,800 additional teachers have been employed by district boards ; and thus the number of one-teacher schools has been materially reduced. Provided. that steps are taken, from time to time, to recruit the additional teachers required to cope with the increased enrolment, the expansion in the number of pupils should be a means of increased efficiency through the rapid elimination of the one-teacher school. 'I'he Minister is of opinion, therefore, that the provision of adequate staffs, in existing schools, is of even greater urgency than the creation of new schools unless, in the· latter, a. reasonable number of pupils is assured.
7. Steps should also be taken, both by exhortation and by improved teaching, to ensure that as far as possible, all the·
(rl) Completion of the p~i- pupils shall complete at least the primary course, ma.ry. course by all pupils It is satisfactory to note from several district rs- essential. h h·. . ports t at muc is already being done to effect an im- provement in this matter. Perhaps one of the most interesting steps in this direction is the scheme initiated by the Co-operative Department in organis ing societies of parents who bind themselves to send their children to sohool' for the iu11 primary course and to pay a penalty for default. The main. benefit of all forms of compulsion is probably the assurance that those who come to school shall remain there a sufficiently long time to gain a lasting benefit by their· schooling. Progress in this direction is indicated by the recent returns which show that as many as eight municipalities and 127 school areas in rural districts have already introduced compulsion under the Act. In future, credit should be due to the measure of success achieved in the promotion of literacy rather than to a mere increase in enrol ment.
8. The i1iniate1·
~ I
I
14J 7" UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS,
12. The Punjab Government (Ministry of Education) is now anxious
t .h . that these schools should be placed on a more
A permanen sys=rn re· t b . d quired. ~ermanen as1R ; ann, for this purpose, the following general suggestions are offered :-
(a) School terms o..nd sessions.--1'he aim should be to give recruits a clear six months' work in order that, at. the end of that period, they should be either literate or on the high road towards it. There should be two terms, one for the winter. and the other for the summer. The winter term might suitably begin in thes month of October or November as the autumn crops should by then have been reaped. As this season gives the best opportunity for concentrated work, the pupils would be expected to attend school during this term for two hours daily on six days in the week. During the
[Hon. Mr. Manohar Lal.] . . . 9. It is hoped, therefore, that the increased enrolment, together with
the other measures to which allusion has been made, will result in a material reduction of illiteracy among the rural classes of the province. Unless, however other steps are taken, progress towards the ultimate end in view must in~vitably be slow. It is necessary, therefore, also to make provision whereby the pupil shall retain l~t~racy once gained and thus be _in a position to use that instrument for beneficial purposes; and, further, it has to be .recor,1.used that the large and illiterate adult population of the province has an ~;answerable claim on the assistance of Government.
IL-SCHOOLS FOP. ADI!L'.l.'S.
10. The urgency of the problem relating to the education of the illiterate adult can hardly be overstated. The
Importance of the educe- decision to achieve constitutional progress by tion of adults. · t · fi · · · successive B ages imposes a very de nits obligation to take all possible steps towards its solution. 'I'he general spread of literacy amongst parents should also lead to the uni versa~ ~ducation of the children; and moreover, should serve to remove the suspicion among the cultivating olasses that literacy is incompatible with the vocation of agriculture. There is, therefore, reason to believe that if schools for adults can be successfully instituted and made generally popular, the intellectual development of the province will be assured.
11. A very satisfactory beginning has been made, during the past . b . . year, in the provision of schools for adults. It
Satisfactory egmnmgs. · · t d If . is estima e that, on March 31st last, as many ss 18 000 adults were enrolled in these schools. For this happy achieve ment' the inspecting and teaching staffs, local bodies and the Co-operative Department are mainly respm:si?le. It is pleasi1:g to learn t~at, inspire -of waning enthusiasm m a limited number of instances, this movement has been °attended by an encouraging measure of success, many teachers having rendered devoted service in an honorary capacity and much support having been forthcoming from the public. What is perhaps even more pleasi~g is the enthusiasm and, in many cases, the remarkable capacity shown by the pupils. It is reported that these pupils who show competence and entr~usiasm attain literacy after six months' tuition.
[24TH N OVB. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 14.18
...
----- ---- ---- ---- ------
e : l
summer term (excluding vacation) the school might be open on (say) two days in the week when the pupils who have attained literacy or nearly so should read and work under the general guidance of the teachers. 'I'he actual time of instruc tion should be fixed with reference to the convenience of the pupils. These terms and sessions will probably be found suitable to both urban and rural conditions. What has been suggested in this sub-paragraph, however, should not be read as imposing rigid lines of procedure, for both experiment and variety of treatment are desirable in the early stages. It is probable that the final form will be evolved from results attained in the several types of school rather than through departmental regulations.
(b) .Methods rif teaching.-Jt is clear that adult pupils will pr.ogress at different rates ; Iar more so than in the case for boys.
'When once the rudimentary ground work has been covered the teaching should be largely individual. Nothing, for example, would be more deadening and. uninspiring than for a class of adults to be taught the first reader when half the class is ready for the second. . lo arithmetic, again, after the pupils· have grasped the elementary rules, the same principle should be observed. Lessons inviting the appli-, cation of principles should form an important feature of this teaching. '1.'hough the recognised syllabus should be confined to the three R's, the pupils should be encouraged to present their difficulties to the teacher who should suggest further means of study. 'I'hus, each pupil should be allowed · to progress at bis own rate and bent, the teacher's main duty being that of supervision and of encouragement.
(c) Lif.eracy certi;ficates.-·In the Multan Division, an attempt has been made <luring the past year through the agency o1 the inspecting staff to award literacy certificates to adults who have reached an approved standard. About 200 such certificates were awarded last year. 'l'his practice bas been found to make a serious inroad on the time of the inspecting staff; and, moreover, it presents other difficulties, it being by no means easy to establish a uniform standard of literacy. Still, the practice is undoubtedly sound in principle and is commended for general consideration, and for adoption. wher· ever possible.
(d) Rca(lers.-Readers which are intended for boys are not suitable for adults. Special readers will therefore be prepared which will include, from the earliest possible stage, material which should be both interesting and useful to adult readers.
(e) Admission of boy pupils.-Boys under the age of sixteen should only be admitted in very exceptional cases. A school for adults is not intended to be a cramming place for boys at tending a day school ; nor as the ordinary means of educa sion for boys who should be at a day school.
I
\ (
1419 UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
[Hon. Mr. Manohar Lal.] (J) The u.rn of tchool buildings,-Subject to the requirements of the
school for its work in the day time, school buildings should be made available to a school for adults; and the building of a school receiving Government grant should be regarded as a public building for this purpose. 'I'he . library, under the rules framed for the purpose, should also be availa ble to selected adult pupils. l articular care should be exercised to ensure that the adult pupils are cleanly in their habits. 'I'hose who are not so should be removed from the roll.
(!}) Fees.--It would be unwise, in the first instance, to impose any hard-and-fast rules in regard to fees but, on the principle that what is paid for is the better appreeiatod, some monetary or other contribution towards the cost of maintaining the school should be expected from the pupils. The method of levying this contribution should be determined by thP. authorities concerned. It is r.lso hoped that thf> tinnn.cial assistance which bas already been received from private benefactors will be continued in the future.
13. A school for adults should be an integral pert of every training . . . institution, including the Central Training College •.
-Tbe traimng_ of suitable By this means the students under training will have teachers essential. . I .1. . . l . f additions Iaei ities m t 10 practice o teaching ; the cost will be negligible; and, especially ?,t the Central Training Col lege, the training authorities will have direct opportunities of studying · the important problem of adult education. In view of the fact that success in adult education will be in proportion to the capacity of the teacher to attract pupils to school end to secure and maintain their interest when they have joined the school, the means and methods of teaching adults should form a special feature of the course of instruction to all teachers . under training. It cannot be too strongly emphasized from the outset that the teaching of adults can only end in failure if it lapses into a feeble, uninspiring and rigid imitation of the methods employed in the teaching of children.
14. In Government institutions in which a school for adults is started ; an addition will be made to the allotment for con--
Clessee for adults in high ti · · d t th . . dit and normal sehoola mgenc1es m or er .O cover . e expen 1 ure · · · incurred. '.rhe general supervision of the arrange-
ments- for an adult school would appropriately fonu part of the duties of the Superintendent of the boarding house. In certain schools the practice already obtains whereby the boys in the boarding house prepare their home
· lessons in the class rooms of the school under the guidance of the superinten dent. This practice .should be followed in all cases, but there would still be ample accommodation in another part of the building and remote from the boys' classes, which would be more than sufficient for the classes for adults. As, however, these two activities would be in progress at the same time. and in the same building, the general supervision of both by the superintendent of the boarding house should not present difficulties. Suitable precautions should be taken to keep these two activities entirely separate.
· 15. In training institutions the teaching will be done by the students under training under the supervision of suitably qualified members of the-
[24TH N OVR, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 14:20
~· •·,- "" ••,•-,•,,••\...,••-.;-. '•\"-'•·• ;·'• ••,,•''''"'-'""-·----. --· '"'" '" I • o, •••••~.,,: ..... ','I"'· M". •••,
·:sta.ff. In other Government institutions the teaching will be conducted by a _ member or members of the staff. With suitable organisation the teaching
work of the school for adults should not impose any serious addition to the work of each teacher. With the concurrence of the inspector, the work in th!'
. classes for adults might be taken into calculation in determining the number of teaching periods demanded of these teachers. during the day; and this will probably prove to be the usual practice. In exceptional cases, an allowance might be permitted, but such allowance should not exceed Rs. 60 per annu-m.
· Similar arrangements will probably be appropriate to schools for adults main· tai.ned by aided secondary schools. The work of the staffs in such schools would be reviewed by the inspector in accordance with the principle laid
. down above. A small charge for contingencies would be admissible in such schools as approved expenditure for the purpose of assessing the maximum grant.
16. It is expected, therefore, that the schools for adults which will A d i . .. al h t., form part of Government high schools and train· n m muniorp sc oois, . . . . ld d th d . mg institutions, a( e to ose con ucted m
,·connexion with secondary schools maintained by private bodies, in accordance with the suggestions offered in the preceding paragraph, will meet, in a con· siderable measure, the immediate needs of urban areas and of rural areas in which such schools are situated. Anglo-vernacular middle schools maintained by municipalities, being now aided institutions under the terms of paragraph.
-11 of the Education Department 0. M. ~o. 6:H4-G., dated 18th April 1922, will receive the same encouragement as has been suggeste::l for privately managed schools in the preceding paragraph. 'l'here may be certain towns however (especially those in which compulsion is enforced) where it may be necessary to supplement the provision made in secondary schools. With the approval of the Inspector, special schools or classas for adults may be main tained by a municipality; hut Government grants on the expenditure of such schools or classes will be limited to Rs. 1,000 for each division. Expenditure
·· on this account will therefore be admissible as approved expenditure for Gov· · ernment grants (up to the limit named above) in the statement submitted - annually for the expansion and improvement of vernacular education in rnuni · ci pal areas.
17. A more difficult and more urgent problem to decide, however, is the Adult classes in rural areas. means whereby schools for a~ults can best be en·
couraged by district boards in rural areas. Prac tice varies at present. Some district boards employ their own dey teachers to maintain these schools which, for purposes of grant, are regarded as aided
-schools ; and co-operative societies often employ as teachers persons who are not engaged in teaching during the day. The Minister is of opinion, provided that no payment is made or grant a worded in respect to a school whose aver· age attendance ia below fifteen, that the best means of assisting district boards in the enterprise will be to permit expenditure on schools for adults to be re· garded as legitimate expenditure for tho assessment of Government gra.nts'for the expansion and improvement of vemacular education; up to the total maxi· mum named for that purpose for each year. The Minister, moreover, regards this form of education as of such urgent importance that he has decided, for
_ .the present, to ear-mark a portion of the additional grant allotted each y.ear for .this purpose. Among the objeets enumerated in paragraph 22 of the Educa·
on Department's C. M. ~o. 336-A.S., dated 29th June 1922, therefore I
1421 UNSTABRED QUESTIONS .AND A:NSWERS.
[Hon. Mr. Manohar Lal.] will now be added the approved expenditure on schools for adults, subject tO the following limits e+
(a) In respect to schools for adults maintained by district boa. rds, the· allowance should not exceed Rs. 00 per annum for each teacher. 'this allowance should be graded in accordancs with the quali fications and duties of each teacher. 'I'his sum of Rs. 60· should be regarded as a maximum and not as the fixed re muneration for 2. teacher. A smell expenditure on contingen cies will also be regarded as approved expenditure.
(b) In respect to schools for adults which are Bided by district boards, the rule above will also apply in regrud to the remuneration of the toacher. An additional grant lIH\Y be paid either towards contingencies or in the form of r. block gnmt. Such a block grant might be based either on the award of literacy certificates or on the average attendance. 'l'he maximum pennis sible shall not in r.ny er,se exceed the amount of a block grant calculated tjt the rnte of Rs. 2 per annum for each adult receiving f, literr cy certiticate, ur He. 1 per annum for each P,clult in avcrngo attendance.
(c) The conditions in (a) and fb) P,bove will he r.pplicable to schools for P.dnltR in vilh:.gPs where primary schools 2,lready exist. In villages where such schools do not exist, the Co-operative Department will be encoumgf>d to institute adult schools by grrnts awarded under special rules of r, more elastic nature in order to meet the special circumstances of these villages. In this matter, the Minister is of opir ion that it is undesirable to impose restrictions which would in any way hamper the success of the experiment. For these schools, therefore, block gnmts will be payable on the scale prescribed in (b) above, but the grant on account of the salcry of the teacher will be admissible on a sliding scale, based upon the average attend· ance (proYided thaf it is not less than fifteen) and tb:~t the tote 1 grant d oes not exceed Rs. 200 per annum on cccount of t.he school or schools t.r.ught by a single ter;cher. An allotment ,1 ill be ph,eecl r:.t the disposal of the Registrar, Co-operative Societies, for this purpose. A report should be submitted each vear on the distribution of the allotment and on the results. ~f the PXJ;:Primef'.t; the general question of adult. education should also be discussed in this report ir: the light of the ex- porience gi ined , ·
III.~'L!.HE ])rsSF.MINAlION OF' KXOWLEDGJ<: AMONG THE ILI.ITERA'l'E.
18. In addition to thti creation of adult. schools, steps should also be, · taken to supplement by indirect, moons the
Means of dissemination. teaching given in those schools. 'Th.ore is au urgent necessity for the institution of small village libraries which might be housed in the schools. It .is probable that useful pamphlets will be presented by certain df)partmeuts-0i~nmtint &Dd by .philanthropic socio ties such as the Red Cross Society. Tne.~att0.r.so.ci1,ty has already provided.
PU~JAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. [24TH Nova. 1927 •. 1422
-~
(a) the number of boys who applied for admission to the Agricultural. College at Lyallpur and the Engineering College at Rasul respectively from each Division separately during the past 5 years;
(b) whether Government has enquired -into the disparity in numbers. from each division and whether Government is prepared to. take . steps to give fr~cilities to the South-East Punj!lb to ensure thefr proper sha.te · of representatien ?
514. Rao Bahadur Lieutenant Rao Balbir Singh : Will tha· Honourable Minister for Agriculture be pleased to state-
AGRICULTURAL OoLI,EGE, LYALLPUR AND E~GI:S.EERL'W CoLLEGE, RASUL.
a ready means for the expansion of this movement by a donation of Rs. 80,000. The bulk of this money will be spent on the purchase of magic lanterns which are now being ordered. A small sum will also be set apart. from this donation to meet the necessary contingencies. It is suggested that the lantern might most conveniently be kept in the local Government high school where the science teacher would be held responsible for its safe custody; and where the hall of the school would be suitable for the display of the slides. The lectures, both at headquarters and in ths district, would be connected with matters of public interest and would be graduated in accord ance with the competence of the audience. It is intended to prepare slides on suitable topics, and also lecture notes for the guidance of the lecturers.
19. It is also essential that those who remain illiterate should not be forgotten. Val'ious methods oi widening their horizon and stimulating their intelligence readily suggest themselves, Illustrations and pictures dealing with matters of interest and importance should be made readily available to them. Some of the lectures and discussions, especially if they are capable of illustration by means of a magic lantern, would also appeal to that section of the community. In rural areas, much could be done by this means to bring to the knowledge of the uninformed the most important developments in agricultural and hygitnic science ; in tho breeding and care of cattle ; in the methods of combating and preventing common aiimonts and diseases ; in the: value of co-operation ; and in the elementary principles of civics Snd adminis tration. The main object in this, as in a,11 measures for the education of adults, should be to afford to those who have not been favoured with oppor tunities to benefit by the advantages of education in their younger days the means whereby they may learn through the eye and ear that which will en able them to become better and more useful citizens. It is hoped that the services of Government pensioners and other public-spirited persons may be utilised in carrying out many of the proposals discussed in this Resolution.
20. It is probable that a district committee will be essential to the· F t . of di t . t m proper organisation and success of this work. orma 1on s ric co · · . .
· mittees, Such committees would naturally include the- officials most nearly concerned and also a number of non-official men and: women who are interested in the movement.
142S UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND AN$WERS.
Punjab Agricultural College. (b) (i) The number of candidates selected from each civil division
depends upon the number of suitable candidates who offer themselves for qualifying examination for admission and interview. The case of backward aistricts is taken into consideration in making the Jina.I selection as far as possible without lowering the standard of admission. It is hoped that with the advance of education in these districts the disparity will be automatically removed.
Government School of Engineering at Rasul. (b) (ii) Entrance to the School is by competitive .examination and
there is no restriction in regard to the submission o:I' applications from any .eivil division of the Punjab. The explanation for the comparative paucity of students from the south-east of the Province is. probably to be found in, the, distanea from Rasul, With the raising of the standard for admission
· in 19'29 to the :f\" A·. ~nd F. Sc., stepsare being taken to bring the advantagea of Aasul to the 'riotice of the Principals of all Intermediate Colleges, while
Civil Division. 1923. 1924. 1926, 1926. 1927. Tot,al.
.Ambala .. .. 29 25 18 29 41 142 Jullundur .. 58 77 97 107 152 491
Lahore .. .. 88 92 123 HO 169 582 Rawalpindi .. 49 36 55 47 83 270 Multan .. .. 45 50 59 79 108 341
Grand Tot.al .. 269 280 352 372 553 1,826 I
Government School of Engineering at Rasul. (a) (ii) '.Dhe number of applications from civil divisions of the Punjab
for admissiod to the Government School of Engineering, Punjab, Rasul, during the past five years is as follows :-
Am
J
La
)
Ra
Division, r 1923. 1924. 1925. 1926. I 1927,
I ba)a .. .. .. 16 17 22 47 34
ullnnd~ .. .. 46 a1 46 101 108
bore .. .. .. 48 24 24 69 92 Iultsn .. .. .. 32 10 17 84 139
we.1pindi .. .. 26 17 16 43 92
IE:on. Mr. Manohar Lal.] Punjab AgricuUural College.
(a) (i) '.l.1he number of spplioaticns received for admission to the Punjab '.!\.gricultural College from each civil division during the past 5 years is as follows:-
[24.TH Novl\.1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, i424
SCARCITY OF ,VATER IN WELLS IN REWARI.
517. Rao Bahadur Lieutenant Rao Balbir Singh: (i) Will the Honourable Member for Revenue be pleased to state---
(a) whether Government is aware that the Alwar and Jaipur Sta.tea have put up dams to prevent the free flow of the waters of the Sshibi Nadi end as a consequence of that a large number of wells on or near the banks of this Nadi in Rewari tahsil have now become unfit for use;
(b) whether Government has received any complaints from the cul tivators in Rewari 'l'ahsil in this connection ?
I -
IMPROVEMENT OF VILLAGE ROADS.
516. Rao Bahadur Lieutenant Rao Balbir Singh : Will the Honoura ble the Minister for Agriculture be pleased to stat&-
( a) whether any steps have been taken by the Government to im prove the village roads, and
(b) the proportion of the amount so spent to the total outfay on roads in one average year?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: (a) The improvement of village roads is primarily the concern of the district boards. 'Ilo assist district boards in this matter the Punjab Communications Board has been ready to furnish a grant-in-aid of two-thirds of the cost of approved schemes.
The response of the district boards has been very poor. Only two have submitted schemes; for one of those a grant of fths amounting to, Rs. 15,000 has been given; and the other is under investigation.
(b) For the reason given in the first part of the reply to (a) no useful comparison can be made.
RESEARCH WORK IN PULSES, ETC,
515. Rao Bahadur Lieutenant Rao Balhir Singh : Will the Honourable the Minister Ior Agriculture be pleased to state whether any re search work has been done on pulses, vegetables, jawar and bajra crops. in the province by the Agriculture Department, and if so, with what re sults?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : Ko systematic research work has yet been done on pulses and vegetables for want of expert staff.
Work on pulses will be taken in hand as soon as the Leguminist, whose appointment has been sanctioned, is appointed.
The appointment of a Vegetable Specialist is contemplated in the Five Years' Programme during the year 1929-30 when the work on vegetables will be started.
Some work has already been done on jowar and bajra crops, but systema tic investigations have been taken in hand only recently on the appointment, of a Millet Specialist who entered upon his duties last month.
a limited number of vacancies are being to be reserved for agriculturists from baokw..a,rd classes.
1425 UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. ' '.
PARTITlOX OF PASTt.'RE LA::-;os.
520. Rao Bahadur Lieutenant Rao Balbir Singh: (a) Will the Honourable Minister for Agriculture be pleased to state whether the parti tioning of shamilat pasture lands has had any effect on the number of cattle jn villages in the Punjab ?
(b) Does the Honourable Minister intend to take steps to ensure that the pasture lands are not allowed to be partitioned in future ?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : (a.) Government has no .information on this point,
(b) No. Revenue Officers always exercise the discretion allowed by Section 112 (2) (b) of the Land Revenue Act.
PRESERVATION OF HARIANA BREED 01;· Cows.
519. Rao Bahadur Lieutenant Rao Balbir Singh: Will the "Honourable Minister for Agriculture be pleased to state---
(a) whether he is aware that a large number of milk cows and buffa loes are being exported to Bombay and Calcutta from the South-East Punjab, and the old Hariana breed is dying out
· on account of this drain ; (b) whether Government proposes to take any steps to preserve
the Hariana breed of cows in the Punjab ? The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh: I regret that the answer
to this question is not yet ready. A reference has been made to the Director of Agriculture, Punjab, whose reply is still awaited.
COKSOLIDATION OF HOLDD"GS.
518. Rao Bahadur Lieutenant Rao Balbir Singh : Will the Honourable Minister for Agriculture be pleased to state-
(a) whether the voluntary system of consolidation of holdings has proved successful ;
(b) the steps Government proposes to fake in order to accelerate the speed of the voluntary system of consolidation of holdings;
(c) whether the Government intends to intro:luco legislation for consolidation of holdings?
The Honourable Sardar Jogendra Singh : I regret that the answer to this question is not yet ready. A reference has been made to the Regis· trar, Co-operative Societies, Punjab.
. (ii) What steps does Government propose to take in order to sa.fegll!ard
the interests of land-owners and cultivators round about the Sahibi Nadi residing in the British Punjab ?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl .. i .. Husain: It is regretted that the reply to this question is not yet ready. It will be communicated to the honourable member when ready.
{Rao Behadur Lt. Rao Balbir Singh.]
[24TH N OVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COU~CIL. 1426
1 Page 1140 ante. J -~
PERMISSION ro TAHSILDARS TO trm.rza CA"<AL A:-,;ro PUBLIC WoRKs DEPARTME:>1T Rssr-Houaas.
524. Dntor G,i)i Ctia.i:l Bharg av a i Will the Honourable the Revenue Member be pleased to state-
(a) whether the 'I'ahsildars have been declared as gazetted officers or not;
(b) whether they have been allowed the use of Canal and Public Works Department Rest-houses or Bungalows, when they are on tour on the same terms as other gazetted officers are; if not, why not?
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: (a) Yes. (b) No, because these Irrigation Department buugalows are extensively
:11sed by the offi3ers of the Department who have to live in them for a great part of the year. It is inadvisable therefore to extend the privilege of oceu _pation to offieors other than those who already hold that privilege.
lKCREASE OF THE SALARY OP 'IlAHSILDARS.
. 523. Doctor Gopi Chand Bhar~ava: Will the Honourable the Frnance }Iember be pleased to state whether the question of increment in the pay of the Tabsildars is under consideration of the Government. and, if so, when will it be settled ;
T~e Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: The honourable member is referred to the answer to Council 1questio11 Ko. 395.
lVfAINTENA:-,;[CE OJ:' A LIST OF DE:\fOBILIZED SOLDIERS.
522. Rao Bahadur Lieutenant R:io Balbir Singh : (a) Will the Honourable the Finance Member be pleased to state whether Government maintains a list of trained demobilised soldiers in each district ?
(b) If not, whether Government intends to maintain this list ? The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : Government is
uncertain as rega.rd1 the meaning to be attached to tho word "trained "; but orders have been issued by Government to Heads of Departments and Deputy Uommissiornits to maintain lists of ex-soldiers desirous of civil employment with details of their qualifications.
POLICE SERVICE. · 521. Rao Bahadur Lieutenant Rao Balbir Singh: Will the
'Honourable Member for Finance be pleased to state- (a) the proportion of Hindu Zamindars in police service above the
rank of a constable to the total strength of those ranks ; (b) whether Government intends to take steps to encourage better
recruitment from among Hindu Zarnindars in these ranks of the police service ?
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency: The information asked for by the honourable member is being collected and a reply will be _ sent to him in due course.
1427 UNSTARRED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.
l. 11, Inayatullah 16th June 1907 to 15th July 1907 Officiating. ( one month).
2. Mufti Muhammad Hussain .. Two months in 1911 Do.
3. M. Ashraf Ali 6th September 1914 to 20th Oc- Do. tober 1914 (one month and 15 <lays).
4. Chaudhri Fsteh-ud-din Ist April 1920 to 30th April 1922 Permanent. (2 years and one month).
~ llf. Abdur Rasul 2!lt.h June 1927 to 23rd July 1927 Officiating, (25 days).
Total period .. 2 years-6 months-IO days •
Period. Name of Muhammadan Dis.
trict Inspector of Schools, Gnjranwa1a.
!'OSTING OF MUSLIM DISTRICT INSPECTORS OF SCHOOLS TO GUJRANWALA •.
526. Cbaudhri Ali Ahmad : Will the Honourable the Minister for Education be pleased · to state-
(a) the period for which Muslim District Inspector of Schools, remained posted at Gujranwala during the last 45 years ;
(b) the considerations which prevail in the matter of posting these officers to the various districts ; and
(e) whether it is intended to post a Muslim District Inspector of Schools to Gujranwala in the near future ?
. The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: (a) A statement is laid on the table giving the periods during which a Muslim District Inspector of Schools remained posted at Gujranwala during the last twenty years. In formation for the last forty-five years is not readily available, and Govern· ment does not consider that any useful public purpose will be served by collecting it.
(b) The candidates considered most suitable among those available at the· time are appointed.
(c) The same principle will be observed.
SUB·JUDGES,
525. Dr. Gopi ChancJ, Bhargava: Will the Honourable;tqeFiuanC&· Member be pleased to state whether the Sub-Judges now b~ong to the cadre of Provincial Civil Service or not ? · · ·
The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency : Yes.
[24TH N OVR, 1927 ... PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOUNCIL. 14!8
1 Page 1312 ante,
RESOLUTION RE UTILISATION OF THE GOVERNMENT OF lNDIA..'S REMISSION FOR LEVELLING DOWN LAND REVENUE.
Mr. President : The Council will now resume discussion of Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan's resolution.1
Diwan Bahadur Raja Narendra Nath (Punjab Land-holders, Gene ral] (Urdu): Sir, before the Honourable Revenue Member expresses his opinion on the resolution under discussion, I should like to say a few words in regard to it. I may say at the very outset that I am in foll sympathy with the subject matter of the resolution. I am aware that the zaminders of certain parts of this province are very poor and are in urgent need of relief, but the way of affording them relief, as proposed by the honourable mover of this resolution, is in my opinion not the right way. There is a proverb in the. English language that God helps those who help themselves, and the best way of helping the zamindars is to enable them to help them selves. This can be achieved by providing them with education and by development of co-operation. I feel that the zamindars would like to· receive immediate relief in the form in which it has been proposed by my honourable friend, the mover of this resolution, hut as I have already said this is not the best way of helping them.
My honourable friend in moving his resolution simply said that relief should be given to the baran·i tracts and districts in which the prospects of providing irrigation and other facilities for development are remote. He further said that the burden of land revenue imposed upon the zamindars of the bm·ani and chahi tracts should be reduced and means should be adopted for reducing agricultural indebtedness. Beyond that he did not go into details. If he had given this matter his fuller consideration, he would have found for himself that his proposal is not so sound as he imagines, and that there are many difficulties in the way of carrying it into effect.
There are two ways in which relief may be given to the zamindars of the· barani tracts. The first is that relief may be given to all zamindars irres pective of the fact whether they are the owners of large areas or of small holdings. Secondly, relief may be given to the proprietors of small holdings only. If the first proposal is adopted, it would become incumbent upon the Government to red uce the barani rate ill general, settlement opera tions will have to be started every year ; and you can very well imagine, Sir, how very inconvenient this process will be for Government, as also, for the zamindar, Again it would become very difficult to decide how far and to what extent relief should be given to well-to-do zamindars.
If the second proposal were adopted and relief be given only to the pro prietors of small holdings, then the poor zamindars of nahri tracts are sure to raise a hue and cry. The only difference between the nahri and bara.ni tracts is that an owner of 20 seres of land in a barani tract is in the same position as the owner of three acres of land in a nahri tract. From the point of view of ownership of small holdings the economic position of both is the same.
RESOLUTIONS.
1429-
{ Diwan Bahadnr Raja Narendra Nath.] I do not wish to raise here the question of urban and rural interests.
I only wish to differentiate between the deserving poor and the well-to-do zamindars. If it is intended to remove poverty prevailing in rural .areas, then there is a class of people in rural areas which is more acutely in need of relief than land-owners ; and this class consists 0£ what are called the kamin», i.e., the blacksmiths, the carpenters and sweepers. After every crop these kamins get their share of the produce in the form of kamiana. If by a mischance a crop fails, this class is reduced to starvation, and it is a fact that these people become unable to earn their daily bread and have to go to bed with hunger gnawing at their vitals. If you consider the zamindars to be deserving of relief, those who have their lands to fall back upon, can you overlook the claims of village kamins ? Certainly not. In my opinion the measures proposed by Mr. Anderson for the relief of the zamindars of the Muzaffargarh district will go a long way to wards ameliorating the condition of this poor class also.
}Iy honourable friend, tho member for the Montgomery district, yester day read out certain passages from the report of Mr. Anderson and called him a benefactor of the zamindars. I am at one with him in this respect and on tho authority of this very gentleman, I beg to submit that the measures proposed by Mr. Anderson don't -eover the proposals of the honourable mover for the amelioration of t.Irn con dition of the zamindars. }fr. Anderson does not say in his report that the land revenue of the barani tracts should be reduced inasmuch as the people
-of the bcirani tracts are already in the enjoyment of certain concessions in .the matter of land revenue.
Now I will pass on to another class of people who are in urgent need of .relief and sympathy. I am referring here to those unfortunate people whose lands have become uncultivable on account of water-logging. The Gov·
-ernment cannot afford to overlook the demands of these people for relief, As long as the Government, has in its possession lands which min be granted to these people, relief is possible by exchange of area. But Government. has not got an unlimited area of land at its disposal, and when the area of
-erown lands is exhausted, how is the Government to help these people?
There is still another class of people who havs suffered and are suffer ing. I allude to those who suffer by diluvion. 'I'he lands of these people have been swept away by the rivers and the Government has not got enough lands to grant them. How is the Government going to help them? Now the only ways in which Government can give relief to the zamindars in general are those mentioned by Mr. Anderson in his report, »ie., (-i) by providing educational facilities for .them so as to make them more adaptive and self-reliant ; (ii) by extending the co-operation movement so as to provide a less onerous method of financing the land, and (iii) by improving the water-supply thus introducing a higher standard of living amongst them. ..
The Honourable the Finance Member has given us a brief summary -of the state of the provincial finances and if, as has already been remarked, -00 lakhs of rupees are set apart for the creation of the proposed fund the -development of the province will receive a set back.
[24TH ~ OVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1480
The honourable mover of the resolution has treated with some contempt the question of the improvement of roads in the province. I should like to tell him that if the zamindars get {acilities for carrying their produce to the markets they can get good prices for it. I know that each and every
· zamindar does not possess a surplus stock of grain, but in case the zamin dars do possess surplus stocks they can get better prices for the same if means of communication are improved. Those days are gone when the zamindars could satisfy their wants by barter. Now they want money for the payment of land revenue and water-rate, and the more money they
.are able to obtain the easier it is for them to pay their land revenue. Again the standard of living amongst the zamindars is not the same as
it used to be twenty or twenty-five years ago. Even the use of k~adilar is becoming less fashionable, and I have seen a number of zamindars pur-
· chasing English made goods and other luxuries, and I have seen many of them dressed in the best of modern fashions. Some time ago a. zamindar friend of mine wanted to purchase my motor car, hut I refused to sell it to him in spite of the fact that he was offering me considerably more than the person to whom I ultimately sold it ; when he met ma again he complained to me about it. But I told him that I had done it in his own interests because · I did not want to ruin him. It is a fact th,1t the standard of simplicity whieh formerly prevailed amongst the zamindars has complet,el;' dis·
. appeared. They want more money to satisfy their needs. They not only want a reduction in land revenue, but thev also want good roads, well·
. equipped hospitals and up-to-date schools. "l\foney is needed for all these things. and if money is set apart for the creation of the proposed fund, all these things will have to be postponed, and if the Government makes up its mind to accept this resolution and create t,his fond for the benefit of the barani tracts, the day will not be far off when the zamindars of the nahri tracts will also come forward with a similar demand.
Mr. E. Maya Das (Norninate.l, Non-official) (Urdu): Sir, I should like to point out at the very outset that I have a very high opinion of the abilitv of the mover of this resolution. He hag verv wide e~1.1eriencs of t.h~Se matters, and has served I\S member 0'.1 Several Select COnmitteeS and as such his opinion must be give:1 the weight it cle3C':ves. I have no don ht that he has s;)w1t much thought in studyi.!1g the pros n,:1l1 cons of this mutter and he appears to be very snxiois to ameliorate the condition of the za-nindars inhabiting the barani tracts. It would ht> sheer injustice, therefore, if I did not mention the good points of his resolution.
In the first place, it. seeks t,o relieve all such zarnir dars as are burdened ·with debt under a heavy rato of interest by giving them a chance to borrow » at a lower rate, and thus help them to save money for the purpose of redeem· ing their mortgaged lends. In the second place, it contemplates to afford relief to the cultivators of the baran,i tracts who-as we know are in some cases very poor. In the third place, this resolution aims at creating a fund which will remain intact and out of whose interest alone the a hove-mentioned relief will be afforded to the poor cultivators of the province. This is a great thing. These are the only three good fsatures of the scheme and had there been a fourth I would have made mention of that as well. But, Sir, the question is whether this is the best way of ameliorating .the condition of the zamindars who really stand in need of it. From tha
RESOLU'IION RE OTILTSATIO~ OF TltE GOVERNMENT OF lNDB.'S 1481 RE)IISSION FOR LEVELLING DOWN LAND REVENUE,
------· --- --··
Again, we have yet to explore the many different methods of irrigation. It is only during recent times that the system of irrigating lands by means of water-lifting machines and oil-engines have been tried. Many countries. are working r, system of raising water by means of Air Power, but no such experiment has been made in this country. Agcin in California, sun-motors ere employed for raising water, and these motors do· not neecl any fuel for working them. Agein now that we are going to have cheap electric power at our very doors, as a result of the· completion of the Mandi Hydro-Electric scheme, it would be possible to draw water from water-logged areas end supply it to the adjoining barani lands. Thus we would be helping the barani tracts and the water-logged areas r.t the same time. ·
It is evident, therefore, Sir, that the creation of a fund is not the best way of bettering the condition of the poor zamindars. The true solution of the difficulty lies in making the villagers strong enough to face hardships •. They should be enabled to increese their productive power and sell the surplus in the markets. Our greatest need Iies ill research work, end I mu sorry to sr.y tbct not much l:ns been done in this conn try so for. 11he conn-· tries which spend more on research work are the countries which ere r.dvcnc ing to-day. For example, tcke the case of Germeny. During the Great War, food supplies nm short, and the Germen authorities appointed some men exclusively for the purpose of finding out some suitable substi tute for food. 'l'hey tried to extrcet nourishing elements, even from the· refuse of the threshed wheat, end though they did not succeed in this line, they did succeed in some other lines, for instcnee, they succeeded in mcnufceturing synthetic rubl.er. Again we have to teach the zr.minders. the method of dry forming. A friend of mine wl.o hes mcrle extensive travels in the western countries hes informed me tbr..t prr.cticr.lly nothing hes been done in this connection in tbs country. Sir, we l cve still to solve the problem of menufacturing agricultural implements end the supply of seed suited to the needs of dry tracts. Though several experiments have been made in Lyallpur, further research is necessary before it will be · possible to say which kind is the best suited for barani treets. 'I'he opening of experimental farms will clso do the barani tracts much good and the-
[24TH Novn.1927 •. :PUN.JAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1482 [Mr. E. Maya Das.J
words of the resolution, viz., " and where other facilities for irrigation and development are remote" it follows that some measures for ameliorating the condition of the zamindsrs are possible. ·
Many new canals are still to be opened and since full details regarding the same are not yet available, we are not in a position to say which of the· barani tracts of the province cannot have the benefit of canal irrigation. My second point, Sir, is this. Rarani tracts are scattered all over the pro vince. In some districts where there is no, or insufficient, rainfall the plight of the cultivators calls for our sympathy, but in other districts where there· is a. favourable rainfall, the condition of people is not bed end es a matter of fact, they ere better off them the people of the ereas whose lends are irri gated by ccnels. They have neither to pay the water-rcte nor have they to suffer r,t the hands of the patu;ari. I therefore request the. honourable mover not to have r..ny anxiety on account of these areas.
____ ....... -··- .. ··-~~--- ... -------··-···-·-···-- .
-employment of entomologists will be necessary to find out means for kill· Ing the insects that infest these .barani tracts.
(At this stage Mr. President indicated that the time of the honour , able member was over and the latter accordingly resumed his seat.)
Risaldar Bahadur Nur Khan [Rawalpindi (Muhammadan), Rural] (Urdu) : Sir, I have risen to say a few words in support of the resolution
. moved by my honourable friend Captain Sardar Sikander Hayat Khan. He bas vividly depicted in his speech the deplorable plight of the zamindara
-of the ba .. ani tracts 01 the province in general, and I propose to make some -observations in regard to the zamindars of the Bawalpindi district in particular.
Sir, the people of the Rawalpindi district rendered yeoma.n's service to the Government, during the Great War ; they helped it both with men
.and money; and the Government and the "History of War" bear eloquent testimony to the glorious services rendered by these men. But I am sorry to say that their plight is simply deplorable. Throughout the year they live on the verge of starvation. The whole district is a baMni tract and is con· spicuous by the absence oi canals. People irrigate their lands by means of wells. Their holdings are very small and the average area of each holding is about six acres. Again, dense forests are scattered all over the ,district and they tend to worsen their sad plight all the more by obstructing agriculture. Moreover, the annual land revenue of each village is not less
· than Rs. 400 to Rs. 600, which considering the nature of the tract, absence of canals and the smallness of holdings is an unbearable burden for the zamindar.
In view of the meritorious services rendered to Government by the .,gallant soldiers of the Rawalpindi district, and in view of their poverty and .backwardness, no district in the province merits so much sympathy and help as the Rawalpindi district, especially its two tahsils, Kshuta and ~Iurree, and if, therefore the proposed fund is created, the lion's share of it must go to the zamindars of the Rawalpindi district, With these remarks I olose my speech and hope that the House will pass this useful resolution without a dissenting voice.
Sardar Harbakhsh Singh [Hoshisrpur and Kangra (Sikh), Rural] '(Urdu) : Sir, when the honourable member Captain Sardar Sikander Hayat Khan moved this resolution, I ,, .. as not present in the Council. Chamber, owing to indisposition. I can, however, by drawing upon my imagination and in the light of the illuminating speeches delivered to-day, fonn some idea of the many good things that might have been said by him in his speech.
Sir, the resolution in question is of a simple nature. It does not sffect . .adversely the interests. of any party or individual. I, therefore, fail to -understand why my honourable friends Raja Narendra Nath and Mr. Ma.ya. Dashave taken the trouble of opposing it ..
. My learned friend the Raja Sahib has retorted· to the zamindars in his .speech .tha.t God .helps those who help themselves. But I beg tq point out Sµ.-, that a~ting,on this.very maxim we, the zamindsr members of.the.House,
.,p,a,Ye .. p~t f~.tth this resolution in order :¥l help. cueselves and .. better .. oµr lot and it now remains to be seen whether our efforts are crowned with. succes1 .or not. ·
:RESOLUTION RE' UTJLJSATlON OF THE GOVERNMENT OP' INDIA'S l 48:S REMISSION FOR LEVELLlNG DOWN LAND REVENUE.
I Sardar Harbakhsh Singh.]
Sir, one of the arguments advanced by Raja Sahib against the resolu tion was that if we give the proposed concession to the zamindars to-day, what will we do if the artisan or menial classes, clamour for similar rights and concessions to-morrow. Sir, I assure the Raja Sahib that we will support the just claims of these menial and artisan classes with as much vigour and force, as we are doing our own, and let him understand it once for all, that we cannot be so mean and abject as not to support any just and proper measure calculated to benefit. the menials, &c., provided somebody took up and represented their cause in this House. But this can be no argu- ment to deprive us of a useful measure just at present.
Again Raja Sahib in a bantering tone remarked that the zamindars are · well off and ha Ye cast off lchaddar awl have taken to the use of foreign clothes,
&c., implying thereby that the impecuniosity of the zamindars, whose cause we are championing here, is not genuine ; that they have grown rich, one of them wanted to buy his motor. and that thev do not want anv fund for the betterment of their condition·. Rut this ;rgument is also as flimsy as the former one. The zamindars, it may be true, have cast off kfta,ddar, but not because they have grown rich, nor t!iat they hate it, but because the townsmen have taken kliaddar from them for their own use owing to a move ment, and they have naturally to fall back on foreign cloth. Sir, of course I am saying this in the same spirit of retort in which Raja Sahib made bis remarks, otherwise I am not casting any reflection on khiuldar, I love it, because it is a good thing and I am sure that fine dresses can be made out of it. But why should any one expect the zamindars always to remain poor and niggardly as if they were no better than hewsre of wood and drawers of water ? "\,Vhy should they not, like others, put on fine "clothes, drive motor cars and enjoy life. 'I'hey must receive education, though not merely for the sake of entering the services, but for their own aim of effecting improvements in their ancestral profession of agriculture. 'I'hey must go, to the Councils only to protest and fight for their own rights and claims •. Here another and a very important question arises. Who _is a zamindar ? Dees it mean anybody and everybody who has got land P. According to this literal meaning even a small sparrow may also be termed " a zamindar," since it also possess0s a bit of land under its feet. But this is not the correct interpretation of the word " zamindar." A zamindar is really one who tills the land, and thus draws his sustenance from the soil, or one whose ancestors tilled the land, but who has now taken to some other a vocation and may have to return to his ancestral occupation at any moment. It is for the zamindars of this type, and not, for those big landlords. who have never touched the plough and hare looked down upon their poorer brethren, that we are demanding this concession.
No better and more instructive instance of the miserable plight of the zamindars of the· barani tracts is possible than that of the people of Hoshiar
pur distriet and the Jullundur Doab. Raja Sahib must be well aware of this, as he was for so many years the Deputy Commissioner of the Hoshiar pur distric.t. The Doaba comprises of the districts of Jullundur and Rosh· iarpur.: and a :pa~t ot Ul.0. Ka.pUt.tha~ ~., Pr~y -the wluM.-Q .. t~· . Doa.b~ is btn'ani, there are no canals in it worth the name. ri.'he zaminda'frr:
[24TH Nova. 1927_ ' PVNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOVNCIL. 1434
are greatly inconvenienced by the want of water. By manual labour they try to irrigate their fields by means of wells which they construct and sink with their own hands and with their own money and on their own lands.
The Government does not help them in any way in so doing. It does not give them any help in the form of loans, but strange to say it charges a tax on these wells which is called ch ,hi. Unfortunatelv for the last 10 or I 2 years, the water supply of these wells has diminished considerably, and many wells have become almost dry. Opinions differ as to the cause of this. deficiency of water supply. 'l'he expert appointed by the Government for going into this question, has come to the conclusion that the shortage of water is due to the excessive number of wells dug in the Doab, and is reported to have recommended that a law should be made penalising the construction of new wells. In other words, the only source of water supply is being proposed to be stopped or restricted. I am sanguine, however, that the· House will never pass such a law, which is calculated to inflict untold ·misery and hardship on the zamindars. The root cause of this deficiency lies in the earthquake of J 905, when through some motion of the earth, incompre hensible to us, the water level began to gt) down and is still going down., 'l'he people of these districts aro very poor, and are holders of small estates. If thf• proposed fund is created, they will he able to construct new wells,. repair the dried ones, and will thus be enabled to eke out a precarious exis tence. Why does not the Government who has spent such large sums on the construction of canals in Bikaner and the Nili Bar look to these helpless people ? The District. of Hoshiarpur is devastated by a large number of " ohos " "soans," and " beins " which carry the rain water into the rivers of Sutlej and Beas. '!'hat water has been utilised in Bikaner and Nili Bar and will bring crores of rupees in revenue in due course. Every' one has got a right to retain in his own field the supply of water that pours from above. K ow if there were a big fund for the purpose something could be done to retain the water of rains, &c., for purposes of irrigation when tho rainy season is no more,
· }1y honourable friend Mr, Maya Das has, in opposing the resolution, made a very funny remark, He said that the tracts of land where the· rain falls should be 'considered to be out of question from the point of view of " Lorani lands." He forgot perhaps that the very word baran» de notes the connection of land with rain water, i.e., it means the land which is dependent on rains only. 'l'hat being so how can those very areas be dis tracted from the application of the definition and the consequent benefits. tha.t are intended to accrue from the fund which we propose to provide. The question at present before the House, however, relates to the creation or the proposed fund. Its distribution can he discussed later on. The zamindars who are in a fairly good majority in the House, should heartily support this resolution but others should not uncharitably oppose it but try to get it passed unanimously. With these words, Sir, I support the resolution. ·
The Honourable. Mian Si.r Fazl-i-Husain (Revenue Member) (Urdu}: . Sir, the resolution moved by my learned friend Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayst Khan, anJ.Jhe lively de bat.eon the same have given me gre~t satisfaction, firstly because they establish quite clearly th3t certain a<lm.h
RESOf,GTlO~ RE UTILISATION OF THE GOVERNMENT OF INDrA's 1431); - REMISSION FOR LEVELLING· DOWN LA.KD REVENUE.
'I Hon. Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husa.in.] nistrative problems have been occupying the minds of our councillors, and they have been earnestly addressing their efforts towards the solution of these problems and of applying them for the good of the province. This
.is indeed a happy augury for the future of the province. The other point which gives me even greater satisfaction is this,
that though the matter under discussion is extremely difficult and intricate, some honourable members have tried to realise its importance, and those who have not been able to comprehend it fully, do not lack good intentions
·to come to a correct decision. This also is an auspicious omen for our pro vince, for it indicates that our councillors have begun to take interest in the welfare of the province, and have realised their duty and are trying to discharge it conscientiously.
Sir, at this stage, I had no mind to make a speech, but the far-reaching effects of the matter under consideration upon which depends the progress and welfare of the province have constrained me to say a few words on the sub· _ject. The last but not the least thing that has given me so much pleasure is that, from the beginning to end an atmosphere of peace, amity and good will has prevailed in the Council Chamber. Speeches have been delivered with due regard to the susceptibilities of other members of the House, no
,unpleasantness has been created thereby ; and no attempts have been made by the opposition benches which may give an impression that they wish to wrest money from the hands of the Government. I am particularly glad that the Government have not been indiscreetly blamed for not using the money in promoting the best interests of the province.
With these few introductory remarks, I direct my attention to the reso lution itself. It is apparently divisible into two parts. In the first part of the resolution, the honourable mover asks for the creation of a fund, by ta.king Rs. 50 lakhs annually for ten years out of the revenue proceeds of the province, and with this money the honourable mover intends to promote
· the welfare of the province. In the second place, the honourable member desires to use this money for relieving the deserving zamindars from the
.. heavy burden of the barani rates (land revenue of unirrigated areas). Sir, it is evident from the wording and import of the resolution, that it
does not advocate any reduction in the "boran» rates ' at the time of the next settlement of the barani tracts. Nor does it take a single farthing out of the 3! crores of the provincial revenue derived from the land revenue. In other words what the honourable member desires is this: that. any increase in the land revenue ma,y be paid to the Government out of this accumulated fund, This arrangement will not cause any embarrass· ment so far as the Finance Department of the Punjab Government is con· cerned. Now, Sir, the question before us is whether the creation of the proposed fund will be beneficial to us or not ? Sir, it has been pointed out, times out of number, that the income derived from land revenue, stamps,
. court fees and obiana, which go to enrich the coffers of the Government, are {eally the property of the people. Out of this property of the people which . i.s ~.lliefly .made up of taxes a fund is sought to be created to ameliorate tho Q.Qnclition' of the poor zamindars inha biting the barani tracts." Does' it· riot,
·~sir ~ amohnt'to 'the I e vying' of a tax on the whole oi!th1f province 'fol'the· sa:fi:e
[24TH Nova, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. :1436
• .I
.of QQ~,Z8rJilU~·o,f- 8t partfouJan-pa.11t of. the country ? . Wb-Y- not My, plainly : :anjl ~key t•l the assesmnent ov land revenue in bait.mi· tracts shouJd be· .-ecfo.pe~. Tb.ia erooked a,!')(\ round a.bout method is not- of-'nmeh use. Again. · -the. o~~ti9n. ot a., fo..nd will: haJl<).-ly be ofc any use as this· wiR eoJttribute otily, a neg1igi·ble-ga.1;t,~w$J:().s-t}le liabilities on the ~indati,;eo f&r-as-l~d'revenue_ is concenned; I. 'f:Qijd~t why it is. peopesed that .tthB .]te,rel'l.tte Pepaftimeri:t, ·
.of G.o~e~ro13n~ ~ql<l conij.~~ to eolleot land revenue- fto-em the ~indal'S' ·. as l'l.er~foi::e, a.Nt ~iei,: when the 1-und is, created, p~y a. per-tion of tbeJ~n.<l: · rev.enw:,, out; Qf~fti.s; Iund. H the Gowennment r-etalinsi this. rsoney, it· is for·
-the btnt,fit of: tilie,_p-rov~nce, a.nd· a.s a mat ten of. foot the- l"Bnd' revenue and' this fund, both ai:-e t.be proper;ty of the people.
So, fa-r, a1,; flh~ policy advocated by the honourable members who_ ha_ve :8pok9Hi o~ thil! resolution is concerned, there is no difference· of op~OJ:.1. ·: Wajys, a.,idi meacs. should be found to help the needy and to. enable the people oHhe. Pupjab to live a. comparatively comfortable life thatisto say
.eaeh, person sho.u:ld: have sufficient to feed, and clothe himself, afte~ meeting ·the, I!ev:eooe. demaJid,s of the province. Sir, this is a principle with. which
. all: of my, colleagues an~ myself ate in entire- agreement with the honoµf'abl'e: · ·mo~er ; and yet; is, it not a. pity th~t we cannot view the problem f~Di . the · -same standpoint ?: The fund which the honourable mover and hi"B party pro- pose to,~blishi 6all only be· crea.t-ed•itmoney is forthcoming. F:Or ineta'°ce,.
-in the brulget.fm.\ i928-,29:, a.ff.er· providing for the necessary items; .if onlJ 20 JaJths. 84'.e, lefh over- as surplus, how are we to get hold' of t_he ren:u~i)}ing SO. ·
"lakhs ? Shou1diwe make up this· deficiency by imposing new. tax:~& ?' lfso, -should we increase the abitina or the court fee or the stamp d~ty ? · ·
Aa Hoaomtabld Memher: No, the fund should· be· cortst_ituted out of the. snrplua money. No new taxes should be levied, but expenditure
· should be ouooaifud. · T~ HOAoU:C•b~ M;ai),S.i,: Fa2L,i-Husaia: Well, Sir,,ll,n honourable
member says, t.hat we should utilise only the surplus towards this. fuAA~. "NOW ~· an old· non-officisl member of the Romie, in whom the 1$,jprity of thecRio~ reposed, implicit confidence, I_ should like to .tell the honourable ,m~bers that the wording' of their resolutions should be such. as. not to .. lsaze .. any doubt about its 'meaning. Ti).!:! words should clearly and· ex~tly O!)IJYEIY -whab is in the mind: of the mover, The. resolution in question; however, -does- ~ fulfil: 11his condition. It does not say what the honourable mover. .and his supporters wish, i.e., that· the surplus alone should be contributed · to th-i~ fund, They have fixed the contribution at 50 lskhs. Moreover, ;if thei contribution t.o, the fund· is limited to surplus only, how long: wilt it --tak'aoto booome'.5 cr.~es-? Is it not- possible that a deficit yea;r may either · .sw~Uo:w the, fqrni' Ol' necessitate. fresh taxation ? It has again been urged that w:e should cu6 d:own.. our expen.dit\tte-. Now, Sir, it l were to cnt down.
·. the, e~endit.u:re •®·my clt>tlhes, I should have to go without some. of them. · 1 cimnot. he.v.e- iillh11ry olorhes. and' yet c-ut down my expenditure. I ask the. 1 honptllm'~e membiM'· as to· which item· of the expenditure he proposes _to· -out-.d~ ThetbQJlout.e.bll3-membets, who have been in thill Cbunoi), since -its in-..~Mribtl! kn«>W -very weff how-· official and nm'.i~offi·oiaJ members- of -thi~ e.oun'cit l•\ll'~ b~d, to fmd ways· and' means for retrenohing the pro- wiOJmW expe4dit11r-G1a.nd'i-n, spite- of:flheir:-efforts, -they faill3d to effect retrench-
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1481'. ~'11t4:l!f<Jt;~ UTll.lt'l ATI())l ·o~ 'l'tt 'GOVE:tt-&r;tl!l:N~ OF nrnu·s REMISSION FOR LIIVELLINO DOWN I,AND. RZ.Vlt~l,J'E •
\:.
[ Hon. Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain.] ment to any appreciable degree. Sir, I would like the honourable members- · to consider the condition of those areas where there are neither hospitals nor schools nor roads and of those backward classeswho deserve every sym pathy on our part. 'l he duty of a friend is to counsel wisely and not to lose - all ideas of prudence and foresight in the zeal for showing his friendly in clinations. Here is a chance of rendering help to these backward areas and. classes, with this money. Instead of this you want to reserve this money for a particular class of people which even if spent in this manner will not .. relieve them to any appreciable extent of their burden. The gift of an anna per bead per year would not benefit anybody, but if this accumulated money is spent on the work of the general development of this province,. in bringing roorer areas and roorer classes into line with more fortunate areas and classes, much material good is sure to accrue. Now, if Government - were to adopt the prir.ciple involved in this resolution all advancement will come to a standstill. I may go a step further, Sir, and say that even the little progress tbat we have already made will receive a set back. Now, Sir,. the expenditure can be reduced in two ways only. Firstly by dismissing several useful officials of Government and secondly by stowing the work that the 'Transferred Departments ha Ye taken in hand. '.I he first alternative· is' impracticable. It will do no good to the poor zamindars if 1,aluaris or their supervising officers or the staff of the Secretariat is reduced. Moreover the effects of this retrenchment cannot be immediate. 'Ihree or four and perhaps more years must elapse before any money is saved by retrenchment ... Is it not obvious that in several cases officers whose services are being dis-·· pensed with, will have to be compensated ?
Now, comes the second alternative. It means that some of the work of the Transferred Departments should be abandoned. In other words, less money should be spent on the education of backward classes of the province, or on the building of Lospituls for the sick or on the improvement of sanitation and on other useiul things. But in doing this, Sir, will the honourable mover and his supporters be doing any service to the zarnindars · whose cause they are so warmly advocating here ? In my judgment, they are not playing the role of a wise friend but of an unwise friend. To secure a minor advantage, they are ready to deprive them of a bigger one. Is ·it friendship or hostility under the cloak of friendship ? I hope the honourable ·· members will desist from pressing this resolution which is calculated to do immense harm to the interests of the zamindars.
Sir, I claim to have some acquaintance with the problem of primary education in this province. 'Ihe Punjab has been given much credit in other provinces for its laudable efforts in disseminating primary education and . doubling the number of students in schools within five or six years, but, Sir, I will not conceal the real position from you or for the matter of that from any OLe Hen outside this province, that the present system of imparting . primary education in schools is not such as to encourage us to make it com pulsory. Compulsory education should be such, that those who receive it should become literate in the trne sense of the word in a period of four or five years. But the standard of the ability of our teachers is so low and the, control of the Inspectors is so loose that under the present circumstances. and with tr.e present arrangements we cannot achieve that object. Sir, ..
[24TH NovR.1927 ..- -
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
.~.: ·-:,
llESOl,l,:3'ION;.JU] UTILISATION OF THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA'S 1439,. REMISSION· FOR ·Lil.Y:ELLING DO.W.N,.:r«tND REVENUE.
if you desire that your province should have the benefits Qf education and· there should be real advancement in rural areas you should double the grant. that you have allowed for the primary education in order to enable the de partment to better the condition and standard of the teaching staff whom you.. pay even less than what you pay to your khaneamas and bearers and whose highest academical qualifications do not go beyond the vernacular middle standard.
Sir, keeping in view all these requirements of the province, and possess ing a love and regard for the betterment of the condition of the people· of the Punjab, how could I agree to such a monstrous proposal ? If you want to ameliorate the condition of the poor inhabitants of the barani tracts, give them first rate schools, well-equipped hospitals, good seed, strong cattle, good roads and assist them in finding and possessing means of improv ing the condition of their lands. They should get the help which they deserve and not that which would hardly do them any good. May I for the information of this House say that during the last few years valuable help has been given to the districts of Kangra, Rawalpindi, Jhelum, Rohtak and Hissar? . The Government has been able to do for those districts with the . help of this Council what it was impossible for it to do in pre-reforms days. Sir, I am sure the scheme as propounded in the resolution will not achieve the good of the poorer and the weaker fellow Punjabis that we all have in view, and for this reason alone I do not find myself able to support. this resolution, and am constrained to oppose it.
Sardar Ujjal Singh (Sikh, Urban) : Sir, the Honourable the Revenue Member has put one interpretation on this resolution as regards the pitch of assessment and the burden of land revenue. He says that what is pro posed is that the burden of land revenue is to remain tho same, that only a portion of the land revenue is to be paid out of the reserve fund thus created. But my interpretation and I believe the honourable mover agrees with me is that the underlying object of the resolution is to make this burden light by gradually reducing the pitch of assessment. It is a strange irony of fate that in spite of being rich in raw materials this country still remains one of the poorest countries in the world. It is all the more regrettable that the portion of population which is dependent upon agriculture happens to be the worst stricken in poverty and deeply involved in debt, and yot it is the one portion which, I think, is rightly called the backbone of the country. It would be needless for me to waste the time of the House in quoting figures about indebtedness and poverty of the agricultural population. As my honourable friend the mover and my honourable friend the member from Montgomery have both painted luri~l pictures, it is impossible for me to improve upon them. Even if I were to make an attempt, I confess I have not got the power nor tho enthusiasm nor the voice that my honourable friend from Montgomery possesses. Besides, many of the honourable members have carefully studied and have many a time quoted those two well known books by Mr, Darling and by Mr. Calvert in which the authors have established that only 17 per cent. of the proprietors of land are free· from debt and that tenants and cultivators are alike under debt and that agricultural debts amount to as . much as 90 corres of rupees. With all' these facts and figures staring us in the face, it becomes the bounden duty of the Government to· take some steps to lighten the burden of the agrioul- .. ,a
(Sud• Uj§al Smgh.J tt'l1'$l pppuJ-a:tion. Sir, thar.e ml}.y be. several causes tha.t may have contrihn.ted to bring about this deplorable · staje of affairs. It ma.y "be due to OOl!iVY exp~ea on litigiation, on marriages, heavy mortality of' cattle and it. may ah!Q be due to that much. maligned system of credit that prevails, in villtiges •. But, Sir, I say, go to a zamindar aad put one question. Ask him as to wh.a.t time, at what period of the season and for what purpose has he to borrow I®Qey,·a.t a. higher ra,t&. oi inter8St. His. one- answer straigh-tway would be t~li he, has- to borrow money wl:iea h& fools the pinch for,. money at th~ t.ime, ~- for. the par~ose ot Jta.ying la.n~ revenue. It is a. m~&r, of: common k_.,[email protected] th~ holdfug power of the cultivator is very poor and he, has to,;aeW all h.ief produce- at a v@ry unfavourabla rate simply for the purpose ot revenue payments. I need· not go into the-detailed history of the. land, revenue -syswm. but- the fact remains thitt whereas the total bun.ten on land; ():h!6w_heF~ is. about. 10· per- cens., in this country it varies from 15 to 2t), per c• oi t.h& gross- produce. The culti-vat>or has- no capital> no credit, nor r~.oe&- to effoot improvement, in his land' and coupled with this burden, -0i' land: revenue, he is sink4ne- daiiy in po-vffly-. [email protected], no. doubt' ia doing· its- best to cope with this- serious situation by wa.y of enCQmagem~ nt of; ~ll&tiv.e. movement, oa,tt,le b:reeding- and other,- a.Hied activities of t~ •cultural department. But it_ amounts to giving with. one hand: and taking- away with the. other, and probably- with the· right hand, if no, relief comes forth in the shape of lightening the burden of land revenue.: The Indian, .Taxation Committee reported some, three years ago. ar .. d, mado some ver_y important recommendations. Ouf of the. various recommendations. tl;la.t were made by that committee; one was tl).at the basis of assessment shq»)sl be the, annual value and by annual, value they- mean gross produce -0£:stJl#}. land, lesa cost of product-ion, including the labour of the. farmer and his w):ioJ~ family. Another recommendation was that the rate of assessment; ~q()U}d be fixed at ths maximum of 2,6 per cent. of annual valu~. Even tli~~ ~pder&e recommendations. were not. given, effect to. While, I am at one v,tifJJ., tho honourable mover in. the underlying object of the, resloution, I -0~ot.see eye to eye with him w#h regard to the specific proposala involved t4,erilip.. I do not think the. honourable mover wants other. departments, and. especially beneficent depar.tments to s,ta.rve. In fa.ct we require more money for education, if we. want to dispel ignorance from. the- masses, more ~~,, for public health, ii -we, want to 'driv.e out disease Irom the oountry; moi:e money for. agriculture, it we wll,.Ut to. see our raw produce increased all({. also. more money for- in4us.tI:i!lS- i! we want to, solve the. problem of un -eWiPl.QiYmeut. I may also say that we will have to. pr,ovid,~ more money fJ>F: police, if we continue to. fight among ourselves a..s we. are doing torday {~, hear}. But, Sir, the honourable. mover· was on. firmer groundwhen he
-s~~teil that the surplus. of e_v61':y })ear ought. to be funded, wjth_ a vio,-: to · l~l(~p.g down tho land. t0VE!IlUfl •. This i~, a, veny•modest·pro1wsa.J~ If. the JlQ.np,u:able- the. Roveaue. Member.· s.ees hia way to give an assurance to, tJie }h)uae.\ to tha.,t c.}jfo;:t, I would. strongly. advisa ·the honourable m.ower of tl).e ~fu_tion to- withdraw his. r.es.olµ,µ9i I, repeat so, that. the. 1:lonp11-_ta.bI~ ~¥~ Meml>ur cuay h~i: t~. If the, Honourable the R:ev;en\1# M~her_ M~ij~ way t.o '.J.ss1u:o the. House, t.o· the, effti~t tha.t the sui:}?lus, of every, yeiu:, ~. bn, funded, l(ft: tha Pllfl?C>Se• of lev;alµpg, dpwll, ~~' re".eJ1u,e,, t4~n. thtt · resolutjpp. may hn withdrawn. I would suggest that instead of 50 laklls
. PUN.1AB·:LEGI8LATIVE COUNCII..
Jl.ESOLUTION R~ UTILISATIO~ OF THE GOVERNMENT OF IN"DIA'S 1441 ir:i!fil!ISSION Tott LEVELL!NG 'D'OWN L:AND 'REl'ENUE.
of rupees, the surplus of every year, if any, after ·metMJing the expanses whleh- . the Council wants, should be funded in the manner suggested in the resolu- tion. ,
The llonoal'able Sir Geolfre,y deMootmorency : May I . ask lhe honourable member what he moons by surplus . of every year? Doe~·
·he mean the general surplus on the whole accounts as the Government aocouat, consists of many heads, or does he moon any surplus -there -may be in orli,.,. "i1ary revenue"? Does he bring capital loan and reserve and insursnee funds and everything else in ?
-'Rte Honourable Mian Sir Fazl..,i...i...am : He means. the stli"· .plus, if ·ainy, 10£ the general account of every year shoald be funded for this. purpose.
Sardat Uffal Singh : Of the ordinary revenue. T.he Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i .. ffusain: Generally for (tt\,piw.11
expenditure funds are borrowed. 'Sarclar Ujjal Singh : I mean the surplus, after mooting aJ.l the cfem&ndli
which the Council agrees to. The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl•i-Husain : Nothing can be spent,
unless the Council agrees to it. Sardar Ujjal Singh : After meeting all these demands, I mean a11
reesoaablo demands, whatever surplus there may be will have to be fumie<l with that view.
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i .. Husain: May, I, Sir, put o.u.ly one question to tho honourable member ? Does he mean that all items ot expenditure whether chargeable to ordinary revenue or to capital account should be first met? Or, does he want us to keep this revenue account separate, and go on borrowing at a high rate of interest to meet the needs of capital expenditure?
Sardar Ujjal Singh : I mean the surplus of the ordinary revenue account should be funded for the purpose of lightening the burden of land revenue. Capital expenditure has to be met from capital account. It is' true that only slight relief might be afforded to the cultivators by this pro posal, but it is no argument for not. giving any relief at all. If we e8i'tt: afford a morsel to the starving man, it is all tho better, even though we a'r~ not able to provide a full meal. The effect of this relief should not be counted and calculated in pies, annas and rupees. It will have a very great moral effect .. · It will lead to contentment and a contented peasantry, I submit. is a far better source of strength to the establishment and promotion of peace, order and good government than all the armed forces that the British G-oV'tfl'u." ment holds under its command.
Rai SahibCbaudhri Chhotu Ram [South-East Rohtak (Non-Muhams madan), Rural] (Urdu) : Sir, I am afraid I have only 15 minutes at my disposal. The points raised by the various speakers are so many and so important that it requires a lot of time to deal with them all. I will, however, eon-tent mysei! with discussing only the more important .pcinte.
The Financial Commissioner was pleased "to make a particular men. tfon df. the Hissar district in his speech runt he ·sttid. that 'the average inoorm
In opposing the resolution this plea has been put forward that because the resolution as worded does not point out the way in which and the cir· eumstancos under which the proposed relief is to be given, it is unacceptable in toto. It is only a c]ever way of refusing our most moderate and 'reason· able request. Otherwise these are matters of details and can best be fixed by the Government officials who are expert in such things and who are handsomely paid for such jobs. Government should look to the spirit and the object of the resolution and then find fault with it if there are any in it. The resolution does not make any extravagant demands. It only asks for the creation of a fund of ten crores of rupees to be raised by sub scribing every year 50 la.khs of rupees out of 60 lakhs of rupees remitted by the Government of India. When the Honourable Revenue Member remarked, in the course of his speech, that so far as the principle underlying
,4 l'.M,
[Bai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Bam.] accruing to the Government in the shape of land revenue from the vast area extending over lakhs of acres in the district was only 6 annas. This, he said, was quite a moderate charge and if it were reduced by one or one and a-he lf anna, the zamindars will not gain much. May I ask here a very per· tinent question and that is whether the Government has ever tried to analyse why the zamindars of the Hissar district are so poor and under the burden of huge debts in spite of the fact that they possess large tracts of lands and, in the words of the Financial Commissioner, have to pay a very moderate rate of land revenue. If Government had cared, it would have known that the unsympathetic way of realising the land revenue is mainly responsible for their poverty. After every six months, these poor zamindars are re quired to pay a definite sum of money by way of land revenue and no
regard is paid to the fact that they have got nothing to feed and clothe themselves and their
children, If I do not mistake, no consideration has ever been paid to the tact that Hissar district gets sufficient rain only once during the period of 5 or 6 years and even then only one crop is raised. Government demand for land revenue remeins the same for all times and, therefore, the zamindars are driven to borrow money from the money-lenders. 'I'his adds another diffi culty to their already precarious condition. By the slow but steady process of compound interest, the ordinary sums borrowed grow into huge amounts and thus become a permanent source o:f embarrassment to these debtors. 1n the face of these handicaps, the zamindars cannot be expected to rise from the abyss of poverty rmd, therefore; it will be in the fitness of things if the Government were to accept the remedy proposed by the mover of the
rresolution. I think if once the proposed fund is established, the Government will be able to give relief out of its interest alone to the areas which deserve 1.t. While talking of the South-Eastern districts of the Punjab, the Financial .Commissioner safely emitted to make any mention of the Gurgaon district. .I may add here for the information of the House that the land revenue charged from the zamindars of Rewari in the Gurgaon district is very exorbit..nt so much so that even the settlement officers of the Government; do not countenance its continuance. It will, perhaps, interest the Govern ment to know that the Rewari zamindars are under the impression that they are being punished for the sins of their fathers who had risen against the Government at the time of Mutiny.
[24TB NoVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. - 1442
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. . My able friend says that it is why that our share has been withh~d. ~lt appears that my friend's peace of mind is disturbed even at my proposmg .-this step. I wonder how it will go with him when Government has a.ctuslly
-the resolution was concerned, he bad nothing to say against it, · I began to cherish hopes that the resolution would be accepted in one form .or the other. But. I wa.s disappointed when, in the same breath, he said · that the acceptance of the resolution will land the Government in many .and serious difficulties. He further said that our demand for the establish· _ ment of the proposed fund wa.s incompatible without admission of the 1'ight of the Government to charge land revenue and suggested that we had 1>etter ask for reduction in the existing rates of land revenue. But may I .ask whether he is prepared to grant that request if we resolve to make it .:some da.y. I know that even when we rmke that request, the . -question of principle will be raised. Then perhaps it will be said that -jt is a. very wide question and affects mt only the province but the whole .ot India. and then we will be silenced by the argument that it is a matter which the Punjab Government is not in a position to decide without consult·
:ing the Government of India. I am here reminded of an appropriate · Punjabi proverb which is as follows :-
L ~ , .... \.!Jli .. / 1~ \!)~:~
;;,1 IJ ;;,I su .r. y'. We see that by putting forward one plea or the other, justice is being
-denied to us and we are constrained to conclude that the question of the relief to the poor zamindars does not find favour with the Government.
'Except offering destructive criticism on the resolution, the Honourable · Revenue Member has not told us in what way and to what extent he is pre· pared to concede to our request. H he is not prepared to give us 50 lakhs,
"let us have 25 lakhs or even less. One of the honourable members on my ·Jeft suggested that the best way to remove poverty from the zamindars was to educate them. It is well said, but when it comes to asking for their
-support for an educational programme for the backward classes, be and others of his way of thinking not only refuse their help, but go to the length of
·ve4emently opposing it. We are fed up with such suggestions. We want eal sympathy and support for this resolution.
A question has been asked as to how we are going to meet the expenses -to be incurred on the nation building programme if 50 lakhs must be set apart as proposed? The answer to this question is not far to seek. There .are only two ways of meeting fresh expenditure-one by imposing new taxation and the other by effecting retrenchment in various items of expendi-
·Jure. In my opinion both these possibilities are available. New taxes . can be justly imposed on the classes of people which are at present eontri outing nothing to the provincial revenues. And if Government is afraid ,.of touching their pockets, it should at lea.st bring down the limit, for the _purposes of income-tax, to Rs. 1,500 or Rs. l ,000 or Rs. 500 i~stea.d of .Rs, 2,000 as obtains at present and it should also insist on getting more share out of it for the province.
(At this stage Dr. Gokul Chand Na.rang said something.) ·
1443. -:RESOLUTION RI U'J'ILISATION OF THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA't:l RE· MlSSION FOR LEVELLING DOW~ LAND REVENUE.
[Bai Sahib Chauahii ·chhotu Ram.] :giv~n ·effect -to my ,Pr-<>l)Otal. Besides otlwr ·avenues c~n. be sqo9EiJ~ldy
·. e~plor~ i:f jt ~ ,r~ly tljt;ended te make »'3t llle bmden '()f ·fihe .P,Qc5i" ~11. . dars. There is ~so mueh scope for ·r~tie~ehn1ent 'in ~peitdittae'. . I un.de.t· . iita.nd that on the eout:tli6tion 'M <11Je •le •of 'road in t'he .Nili Bar, . ~ or . OOibou.s~dr.u..pges a.:re being ~pent. !l:bis1is too 'much toi't'lielhn:itect s~µr~'eS- , of the provin.oo. I -tb;nk an ordinary l'oad. -ef 1orick ba;ts can serve · the purpose. ~ we ,tin& that large amounts of money ate spent oil the con struction of high .ela.ss residential quarters f-or the -offieers. The .-tesidentii.i,l quarters for the PrQvincial Service men cost the Government to thou~and- . T~eef! .i,.Qd for the Imperial Servfoe men something about SO 'thousand rupees. TlJe.t is not all. The rates allowed to the contractors b:y the Pub lic Works Department are very 'high. Rad it not bee:n so, no contractor"
· would have come ·fwwanl to undertake tihe -eonstruetion of 'Govermnerit buildings at a.ppa.tently low rates of r,roftt shown in the tenders. With tba- eonnivance :0! the· offioers these contractors use inferior material which necessitates repairs and reconstruction every now and then and conse-: quently so much public money is wasted. I am sure that if only these rates are revised, there will be a saving of about 50 lakhs of rupees every year on this account only. .
We have also been advised not to press this resolution lest we should !3P.Oil our chances of improvement, for which we have been crying hoarse fpr the last so Jaany years. It has ·been said that by our insistence on the:
· acceptance of the reselution, we wi:ll be interfering with the programme set up for the advancement of the province. In reply to it I will say that we are as anxious for the progress of the provirce as any one else here or outside. But what we urge is that for every rupee spent, we must get in return work worth 16 annas and not a. pie less. Unluckily much of public' money is being wasted now-a-days, For example, the money that is being· i,pent ·on the education of adults, brings no return because I know that out of many thousand adults that we were told, were being educated in the Bobtak c.istrict, only c ne of them has b€en given a certificate of lite-racy (interruption).
Sir, my source of information is an officer of the Education Department and I rely upon him.
Dr. Gokul Chand, Narang: Perhaps they are all dullards. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Rani : Of course they are not air·
intelligent as the honourable member for Rawalpindi is. It has· just now been remarked that the said programme for five years will be upset in case the proposed sum of 50 lakhs is set apart for giving relief to the poor zamindars, I may submit, Sir, that this fear is totally unfounded. Most of the schemes included in that programme have already been completed or have approached-eornpletion. I think the note of the Financial Beere ta.ry, which says that dispensaries will continue to be opened at the rate 01 '10 per year till the end of 1981, is misleading. According to my calculation this part of the programme will be completed before the end of the yeal' 1929.. Likewise is the case of the Agriculture Department, It will not take long to provide au agricultµr-al farm to every taihsil and ·then. there will be no further need for ex,teruling relief of the ll)a.tute that •thee ·progr,a.mme contem Jllatee. 'As for~~ builaings for p~ima.cy sebooffl I should s&ythat w~ do~
~·····---..,..,......,......~--,,.--nno"•'""'•"-·" .-.,, •, ·-···••••• HO-.·
• :-OW!l'Jelil ft:&' 'VTILiiA110N ·O·F JI1&&;~"-WBNJdlN'1' '<W INDU1 S REMIS- "45- BION FOR LEVELLING DOWN LAND REVE~UE.
require them. Our children can very well receive education under the trees &B 'Oitr .fot"efathe'rs used to ·d('). To effect tedn:etfon in ·e'xpend'it'u:~e some of the •offieets 01 the ·Governmerrt 'can be reau<:ed. 'fhe fong list ·o<f sU:pet· vis,ing i>taff i-n the VeterinaTy Department is, in my 'opinion, suJ?erfluous. 'There fa no need of an impector's work being supervised tiy an Aasilltaht Sapmfotendent, and a Stiperintenderit and Chief '8-uperi:ntenden't and finany·
, by the Dirootcr of Agriculture. Some of the intervenin·g posts can safety be abolished. :similatly the posts of the 5 Commissioners can be done awll.y 'With. 'lihey do nof do any 'Useful work and they only icterfere wit'htb·e Wotk of t:he Deputy Commissioners. But Gcvernment does not seem to pay t1-· attention to the reduction in expenditure. There is yet another way. of effecting Raving in the huge amounts of expenditure that is incurred by the· 'Govermnent every year. I remember to ha Ye pointed orrt once before t~t it is -always the anxious care ·of the Finance Department to over-estimate 'expenditure and to under-estimate income. This bad. habit of the depart· lffl€'p),t results in much waste of public money. The Demands for grants· vha.t 'are placed before the Council and which are passed by it without
-material cuts, consist of more money than is aetuaily required or can tee· 'Spent by the various Government departments and I know that at the.end of every financial year, the balance left at their disposal ishurriedly and use lessly spent to avoid criticism by the Council and the Finance department. 'I'he schedule showing the anticipated saving of 74 lakhs during the next four years that has been prepared by the Finance (!epartment cannot, 'therefore, be relied upon as correct. I can see that it must have been under· 'estimated. I hope I have, by this rather lengthy explanation, set at rest the fear of some of the honourable members on the score of the programme· for progress being interfered with. I think thatthe Government will try to aee its way to comply with our request. But if it remains still unmoved it will give. another cause of discontentment prevailing amongst the ~amindars. Looking at this problem from political point of view I take· this opportunity to warn the Government that this impression. is already gaining ground that Government is riding rough shod over the interests· of the zamindars. Even their most legitimate grievances are not removed. This time I asked the Government by means of questions for the abolition of chohi rates and of chaulcidara tax, but my request has been unsympathe tically treated as usual. It is not in the interest of the Government as well as of the subject that this discontentment amongst the ignorant classes ba· allowed to grow because it is likely to prove dangerous to us all. l, t•herefore,_ request the Government to accept this resolution.
Mr. W. R. Wilson (Revenue Secretary) : Sir, it should be imperti nent on my part to give even a brief resume of the system of suspension and remission of fixed land revenue in the insecure tracts of the Punjab. I should have thought that many or rather ail the honourable members of the House were fully conversant with the system of working 'Suspensions and remissions, hut after hearing the remarks of the honourable member for Rohtak who just sat down, I feel that perhaps it might not be impertinent if I am allowed to give· a brief resume of the way the system of remission and suspension works in. the Punjab in insecure tracts. Especially should I mention the way in which, .it works in the two districts where the incidence of land revenue according
to l~e honourable member for liohtak is heavy. The honourable member- ·- - -~
[24TH NOVR, 1927 • PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL • . J446
.,[Mr. W. R. Wilson.] . for Rohtak has given expression to the resentment felt at the pitch of assess .ment in those two districts by their inhabitants. I do not want to be ela .borate, and I will endeavour to be brief. The first rule is that in the matter of
· granting remissions in barani tracts no suspension is given for any crop .. which is an eightanna crop. The reason is that in precarious tracts an eight
. anna failure of crops, is no unusual occurrence. Another reason is that in 0tracts where crops fluctuate violently, settlement officers in the past, and the :-Government, have been particularly careful and cautious to see that the pitch of the assessment does not cause real cases of hardship. The other point is that in precarious tracts, although there may be very little to keep things go· .ing in one harvest, the character of the preceding harvest and the succeeding harvest is often such as was once described to me by a zamindar as "lakk
.. murad." Settlement officers vary the scale in districts according to the
.. needs of particular districts, but the general rule is that if a crop is 6 annas and .Iess than 8 annas, then the degree of relief that is ordinarily granted as a gene
_ rat guide is 25 per cent. If the crop is 4 annas and less than six annas, the .degree of relief is 50 per cent. and if it is less than 4 annas, it is 100 per cons, All honourable members are aware of this rule and therefore it may be imper·
. tinent on my part to mention it. But I wanted to mention this before coming to my point which is this. When the question arises of suspension of land
·.revenue in a bad year, the collector in every district is bound to refer to a -carefully drawn upscheme prepared by the settlement officer, and elaborate statements are prepared from which the collector gets very great assistance in deciding whether he should ree rmm and suspension or not. Danger rates have' been prescribed, which are intended to give a rough guide to decide as to the necessity of giving relief in insecure areas ; the danger rate is a hint
· .to the Collector that where it shows that an enquiry has to be made, the - enquiry is necessarily made. The object of suspension is to secure elasticity .in working and to conbine as far as may be the advantages of a fixed and fluctuating system. In the Hissar district I happened to notice that at the
'last settlement the scheme to work out suspension or remission was drawn up in very considerable detail by the Settlement Officer. The Settlement Officer
.drew up a scheme which contained some features which are not to be found in .any other scheme of any other district in the Punjab. For one thing every village which is exposed to violent fluctuation in crops, has three different estimates showing what the village can pay in a very bad year, in an ordinary
_year and in the year which is above the ordinary. At the same time the settlement officer in Hissar took great pains to prepare a special statement with different normal and danger rates for both kharif and rabi crops with the intention of seeing that all claims of the villages were €nquired into when it was felt that there was some question of suspension or remission to be settled. The honourable member for Rohtak said that the Hissar district was penalized in its assessment~tawan. I think that was the word used by him. As the Financial Commissioner pointed out yesterday, .the incidence of land revenue on the total area and the cultivated area is less in the Hissar district than any other district in the Punjab. The settle ment officer prepared his suspension scheme very cautiously and carefully. The danger rate is as low as 12 annas per acre of cropped area in some tracts.
.In spite of that the average remissions during the last quinquennium has been extremely low, the reason being that the Hissar district has been lightly
'RESOLUTION Ri 'tJTILISATION 01' THE GOVERNMENT OF INPIJ.'S ·l44T RFlMISSION FOR LEVEIJ.ING DOWN LAND REVENUE,
.assesaed : at the same time the suspension scheme has been so carefully ·prepared that in the Hisser district where on account of the failure of rainfall relief becomes necessary to any degree, that re}wf is always given in the way of prompt suspensions. It is also curious enough that in Gurgaon where it is .said that land revenue bears very heavily on the people, it was emphasized · at the laat. settlement, that the feature of the scheme of suspension or remis .sion sanctioned for the district depends on the working out for each village
.at each harvest of a demand based on rates which are generally uniform on all crops on a particular soil but which in six circles are differentiated for .erops, That means that there is elasticity in suspensions and that this system .practically means that the assessment approximates to fluctuation. As a matter of fact, the suspensions in Gurgaon district ill' recent year have been very heavy. From statement (IV) appended to the Land Revenue Administration Report it does not appear that the assessments are hsa.vy in either of the two districts=certainly not in the Hissar district. The settle· ment officers have so carefully drawn up their schemes that relief in the way of suspensions is given almost automatically, and these suspensions, if harvests continue poor are apt to convert themselves partially into re .missions.
Khan Bahadur Malik Muhammad Amin Khan [ Attock (Muhammad .. . .an), Rural] (Urdu) : Sir, I do not like to repeat what my honourable friend the mover of the resolution and some other honourable members of the Conn
-cil have said in favour of the resolution under discussion. I am of opinion that if the Government accepts it, they -would not stand to suffer any loss, but on the other hand it will go a long way to improve the lot of the poor cul-
. ·tivators of l,arani tracts. The district of Attock from which I come, like the Musaffargarh district, is one of the most. backward districts of the province. There, the poor cultivator is hardly able to keep his soul and body together
.hecause of the preriodical assessments and the absence of irrigation facilities which have now been provided to most of the districts of the Punjab. After three previous settlements, settlement operations were made for the fourth time in 1923. I do not say whether or not these settlement operations were .eallsd for at the time. I leave this question aside. But with what I am .. concerned now is that Land Revenue was asses3ed at 40 per cent. in the first instance. It was however, finally, decided to assess land revenue .at 38 per cent. in tahsil Attock, 20 per cent. in I'alagang, 15 per cent. in Fatehjang and 7 or 8 per cent. in Pindigheb. Sir, I am at a loss to under- 1Stand on what principles this assessment was based, for the conditions of the lands has not improved in the least. It is injustice, pure and simple. In order to remove this injustice, if a fund as proposed by my honourable friend the mover, be created, where is the harm? Owing to the periodical assessments the indebtedness of the poor cultivator of my district has con
-siderably increased. Of course the co-operative societies have proved useful for him but not to such an extent as to sufficiently improve the means of his living. He is still an easy prey to the money-lenders. Why is it so ? Only beeause the co-operative societies have not sufficient funds. 'I'herefore the fund proposed by my friend the mover of the resolution would also help :the co-operative movement. I have most attentively listened to all the arguments advanced for or against the resolution and my conclusion is that the resolution, if given effect to, would prove useful to the aamindars of
:.the province as a. whole. I therefore strongly support it.
•
,Mr--. II. · W. &neHoil cChiElf &!ttteiaty) : Sir., I ,thiak ·~ ~ interest that tihis d~baie n&'ll sa!!OW!efl is 'due ;mainly ~ fi&e fact •t· .Mnong members of all quvteni . of the House th.ere is a ,faeling df ~mpa.thy with the motive 'Underlying ihe n,solutioo which the ~o-· Rl'l'W'ble member has moved. %ere -is t general ~lii!lg tha.t il&:nd~ .. «'B ·and •cmtivators J.n the irrigat.e« ~ts of the provi.nee ha:ve beeii .gettmg more tha.n their due share -ef Ure good things ·-0f 'life, and that th.e people ·0£ the '(lfiirrigated 1i:tacts, mainly the Sottth-Eas:t and tJ$ .. North-West of the ,province, ·have boon getting less 1ilian is their «-ue. ·And .it is because of this feeling tha& :memhera in aH parts of the :Ifonse a:re a:axio113, .101 nnd, -if they ·eain, some remedy, some mea.na by w hieh the lot of too ·peopl&-· t'.Jf the poorer parts of the province may be improved. When thB honottra;ble · member for Rohtak says that officers of Government have no symptbthy at <tdl with the lot of the zamindars, I, and all other officers ·of Gov-emtneBt m i:Ms House, resent and repudiate ·the statement; and when ,he goes further M1t ny1wthat GoveI'IDDent does not care to trou.ble about finding a remedy, a w~y '1:iy whic:h the means of erietenoe of these people can be improve&, fihen ·again I say he is making an ,im,eearate statement. To my bi.OWft!dge,. during the past two years-I can only speak of the last two years-Gov-em-- illaeltt has anxiously considered and examined many seherses for the improve ment of the raaserial condition of the people of the barani and poorer parts of - tthe province. Sir, I think amongst members of Government anrl amongst all members of this Rouse there ia a general agreement that whatever means can be adopted should be taken in order to improve their lot and ii possible, to bring them to the level of the rest of the Punjab (hear, heat), not at the · cost of the people of the canal-irrigated areas if that can be avoided, but at any rate to bring up tl1e backward districts to a. }iigller level than they are a.t present, It is only when we come to consider the means by which this can .. be done that there is difference of opinion. 'l'he honourable member who is responsiblo for this resolution thinks it can be done by remitting taxation'. I am not concerned with the particular methods he recommends. It weuld be easy enough to challenge them, to point out, as other speakers . have pointed out, that they are impracticable. I would just point out one wrong assumption. He assumes that it would be possible for Government to lent! to co-operative socio.ios in the space of ten years the large sum of 6 croros of rupeos at 6 per r@t., and that that would be a safe investment. for Government, The needs of mortgage banks have been quite recently examined and the conclusion that was reached was that the maximum amount which mortgage banks could safely absorb during the next 5 rears was 50 lakhs, this was the very maximum-v-and even then it would. be necessary to go very carefully and to examine each step before a11- advance is made. WdI, if mortgage banks cannot absorb this sum at 6 per cent., I do not know what investment Government is going to find for the money. If we lend it to the Government of India, we will not get more than the present rate of interest which is Si per cent. Wft should thus be borrowing at 5 per cent, for our Capital needs, a,rid lending at 3} por cont. which doesnot seem to bo sound finance. :So, even if we had funded this 5 crores, at the end of ro years the annual return on ·that woohl not be 30 lakb.s; it would be l'l:"'lai'fil' :20 than 80, probably less tha.a .20. Now 20 lakhe a year spread over the whole population 'm t~
PUNJAB LEOtsLAl'IVill OOUNQIL,
~--- -~~--·- ----- .-
:P@j~h works outr l!,t. something like, a,xi.. anna, and six pie~ per head of the, P,<>pciJation per annum. And, ill orden to. provide ewb. man, woman and
-child with. one anna and six pies per Q.Jl1lllm,just enough perhaps, to provide tqorp with one more c.hap4iti in. the year, are you going to stop or at l!*.1,St .are you going to retal'd, the development of the province ? Aro you going to make the people of these tracts much richer by giving each one of them one .or two or even throe more cfw.pa:is each year? I cannot believe that that is the way to rai!le the people of the backward tracts to the level of the peopki of. tho canal-irrigated distriots. It cannot be done in this manner. Tho only hopeof the people in these districts is for Government to spend money on their development (hear, hear), and if I belonged: to a district like Hissar or -Gurgaon or Rohtak or Attock, any of these distriots which have been men· tioned; and' if I represented the. people of those districts on this Council, I would insist that Government spent liberally from tho funds at its disposal on their development. Indeed, I think everybody who knows what· the. programmes of the different departments of Government are, will aclniit that Government is spending money on those districts. 'fake the case of -Gurgaon, the district next to Rohtak, Tho honourable member for Roh.tak will· not, lam sure, hesitate to give well' deserved praise to the work tha,t h&e boon going on in Gurgaon for thtdast; two years and to the wosk. that is still goingon. The Deputy Commissioner of that=diatriof was talking to. me this morning. He complained' that he eould not get enough rnoaoy. Ana it is probably true that he cannot got enough for the programmes ofdevelop ments which he wants to see pushed: on But he is going to get less .a-nd1 n~t mow if you reduce the income of the province, as you propose to do, by 50> lakhs a, year. Ii you are going to lay this sum aside, you cannot have it fffl' the pl'ogr-ammes of development which you-want. Are we to lend our rnoney
,at at per cont. while we ate borrowing at the rate of 5 per cont. in order · that· ten years hence - not now - some of the people can have one or two chiipOJtis: more a year- ? That is not thQ way in which you are going to raise, tho backward districts. Yous are going to raise them by hooter roads, · by bet-ter farms and by better agricultural methods. In the Souih-Eaost oH~ · pro'fi®~ an agricultural experimental farm. was opened; this year or atr the -end' of the last year ; in each of thoee, distriets there is going to be a uistPiot- · farm and one hopes ~hat as a, consequenee improved methods of. e.grieulMr~. 11uit&hle to the barani tracts, will be diseovered; in Hissar, Gll'f:gaorl and 'Rohta.k, money is being spent and: spent liberally on the daYalopment of .cattlit breeding, one very important source of income to the people which is <iapahfo of great improvement; in Gwgaon, the Rural Sanitary Board has been devosing a great deal of attention to bunds, and other dra,inag~ sohem~. and in the neighbouring districts sirni]ar wo,ks are under coneideratioe. It is by schemes of this sort and by expen.Jitat.a of this kind· that you, aire going to· do something for these distriets. I think that most of the speakers heve recognised,· this faet. Even the honourable member for Rohtak has rooognizad it. llt& is not willing to give up oae item of, our programmes oa develop ment, but his argument is the..t we- can have · both.; t4illt we oaa spend money on d'tlvelopment a.nd we caa also give it back to, th& people-. Well; . I saiy that we oanJtot do bot,Q. It. is not possic?le,. Ona way b& ,saggusted W:B&. toe ou:t WJl;~'.Jl. ~~lll"i} and- he mentionef one Of two. ,d~oM in whi<lh, perhaps it w:-0uld, be possible to mmtail exp~mies- d~n,~ ..
l:4iff.' ~lA(IO~ -~ UTililftlnl~ f1jP;, 'JIHtl' "'V~,J',NT OF INDIA'S REMISSION FOR LEVELLING DOWN LAND REVENUE.
Mr. H. W. Emerson.] ·well, even if we assume that here and there Government is perhaps spend ing a little more money than it might spend if more rigorous economies were· practised, it is still true that we have to think not in tens or thousands of rupees but in 'lakhs and in crores of rupees, and even if petty economies could be effected, they would do little to solve this problem.
His next argument was that Government was fooling this House. Do. not believe Government, he says, when it declares· 5 u,. . that it has not got the money. It has got the money
and you can have both development and remissions of taxation. In support. of this statement he cited the fact, and I admit he is quite justified to cite it, that for several years the expenditure has been below estimates and oc casionally the revenue has been above the estimates. Last year, however, the revenue instead of being above was very considerably below the esti mates. He cited the figures that are given in the memorandum for which I was responsible and argues that they exaggerate expenditure and under- estimate income. ·
Now the honourable member who moved this resolution has mentioned the sum of sixty lakhs of rupees-the remission given by the Government of India. He mentioned that sum because he was obviously very much im·· pressed by the hugeness of the sum of sixty lakhs. But if hononarble mem bers will study my estimates of the increase in receipts during the next four· years, they will see that I have put the figures not at sixty lakhs but at 171 lakhs, The large increase estimated in the memorandum must have· surprised · many members and I think if the honourable mover had known of that sum, he would have mentioned 171 lakhs in his resolution instead of 60 lakhs. Personally, I am inclined to think that the estimates are on a. rather 1il: era! scale ; and certainly if the E'utlej Valley is not the success. which is anticipated or if the cotton crop is not good on that canal, that esti mate of 171 lakhs will prove far too high. But we have not concealed how large the future receipts may be, and the suggestion that Government is fooling this House is disproved by the size of the estimates. Had we desired tofool the House we would have kept quiet about these receipts. As far the estimates of expenditure are concerned, it is quite possible that the- . full amount may not be reached in four years. But thore is a point which I want the members of tho Council clearly to understand and realise, because it is of the utmost importanes, In the method of examination employed I have taken only recurring receipts and only recurring expenditure, and I have done so intentionally so that members may clearly realise what the estimates
mean. If you have a scheme, say for compulsory education, you may not be· able to start it as quickly as you think ; you may be a. year behind your pro gramme or you may be two years behind your programme. But if you decide to go on with that scheme and if it includes the cost of establishment and. maintenance and other recurring charges, the full cost is bound to be reached, if not in four years, in six years, or in seven years. Unless "you reduce the scope of the programme, it is no use merely to retard progress for sooner or later the full recurring cost will have to be met.
· If you go on with the programmes of development and I may observe that they are riot the programmes of the Finance Department, they are largely· the - programmes oi the Ministers, they are programmes that have been. approved in principle at any rate, time after tima by the members of this-
[24TH N OVR. 1927 ... PUNJA.B LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL,
RESOLUTION RE. UTlLISA.TION OF 'fHE G:, VEENMEN'l' OF INDIA't:! 145}'. REMISSION FOR LEVELLING DOW!.'7 LAND REVENUE.
House whose chief criticism has been not. that they are too ambitious, but that they do not include many essential needs for which provision ought to have boon made,-if you want these programmes to be carried out, then you cannot give the money you require for them back to the people in the· form of remission of taxation. If you think that you are giving better value· to the people by these schemes, than by remitting taxes, then the proper· decision is to carry these programmes out. You have got to harden your· hearts against trying to obtain cheap popularity by giving to the people some thing which will be of practically no value to them (hear, hear).
Pandit Nanak Chand [Hoshiarpur (Non-Muhammadan), Rural] (Ilrdu):: Sir, the subject on which a very interesting discussion has been going on for the last two days is really an important one and I would ask the honour· able members of the Bouse to think twice before they vote for or against the resolution under discussion. I have been for the last three years, in viting the attention of the House to the miserable plight of the zamindars · of the Hoshiarpur district whose lands have been rendered unfit for cul tivation by the action of kliuds or cs os. If there is a district which is in urgent need of relief it is the district of Hoshiarpur. Sir, the resolution under discussion says that. a sum ofrupees 50 lakhs, out of the remission made- by the Government of India, in the annual contribution from this province, be set apart annually for ten years, and that for ten years at least no relief in any shape or form be given to the zamindars of barani tracts. After ten years when the fund reaches the figure of Rs. 5 crores, then tho income derived by way of interest thereon, be utilised for the purpose of levelling down the land revenue of the province and giving relief to the cultivators· of the barani tracts and districts. This proposal cannot in any way help any of the harani districts especially the district of Hoshiarpur where the relief is immediately needed. The people cannot wait for ten long years. The Government have recently decided to remit the land revenue of those zamindars who would reclaim the lands which have been rendered unfit for cultivation by the action of ch os, I have been for the last three years fight ing for this concession. The Financial Commissioner Mr. King, on behalf of the Government, agreed to help the zamindars · and promised to remit the land revenue entirely if they reclaimed the ch cs. This remission will amount to 3 or 4lakhs of rupees. Now, if the resolution under discussion were to be accepted the zamindars of my district would be deprived of the amount which otherwise they are going to receive by way of remission. A grant of a lakh and a half of rupees has been granted to tahsil Dasuha for the purpose of combating the. malaria and for the reclamation of ckhambs in that tahsil, and it will certainly be withheld if the resolution under consideration is accepted. Mr. Jenkins, the Deputy Commissioner. of Hoshiarpur, is auxious to sink new wells and a proposal to that effect has been accepted, by the District Board. Money is needed for carrying out this proposal immediately. You say, wait for ten years. Now if this reso- , lution is accepted it would have the effect of even stopping water-supply to the poor people of the Hoshiarpur district (criee of no, ns') (i:ot<nter criee cf yes, yes). Sir, I will show later on that my point of view coincides with· that of Lieutenant Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan (cries of Captain Captain) •. Yee, Captain. I beg his pardon. Only a few months ago a resolution asking the Government to introduce compulsory primary education in the Punjab was accepted by this Council, but to-day we are asking for quite the reverse.. •·
tpap.clit Na~Ji Ch ·11,d,.l 'Yol(l say,, \eep quiet for ten yea.rs-. Y ou are prepared to grlltllt I,llO!le.J f.or t~. ced:U,~llotion of the poor people, for the extension of pri~y edwiation... Yoa, , wl,\.nt U!!- to sit. down with folded hands for ten years, You are agains] a.fiord,- .
:fog tl).is small assistance to. the poor cultivators o! the barani tra.cts and .-diatri()ts.. It has lJeen often repeated in this Council that rural areas have not t~ f,aeiliti.es which have been provided to the towns. There are no pw;:;a,, '.
_ roads, hospitals, courts of law and light arrangements in the villages. Now when the Government has made up· its mind to take steps for providing
-suoh facilities to, ru.r.a.l areas y.-0u, come-forward and say that the sameemieted b:,:,~~ Go:v(;lJ.'Il.lJ)e:i;i,t of India should not be spent for these benevolent pur poses. )\OU, wa.µt t~m.. to wait for ten. years and then give them a rel~e£ of aIew annas. Thi$ il:l exactly the case ofa, beggar who goes to a wealthy person and gets three annas for his meals, The help given by the w,ealihy person in this case is not a. m.a.tei:_ial one, but if, instead of giving him: thzee -annas, the wealthy; person makes arrangements for his. physical; welfare or for his eduoation so that he may be able to earn his livelihood, that ofcouesa
-woald be a. ~~hsta.¢ial assistance, Sir, you know th~t in England a.nd, in .other countties. the st~odard of literacy haa been considerably raised aJ.14 to foUow: their examplt} we should also spend the amount remitted by the
,Go'itei;nment of India on beneficent departments. These is still much. to be .doae for thie expansion of education, for affording adequate medical relief -to the poor and introducing the modem methods of agricultural improvement .among_ the samindara, I wonder why my honourable friend Ca,ptain Sa.rdAJ;
··Si~llondar Ha..yat Khan has not withdrawn his resolution. after lisbaning, ~o the .able and well-reasoned speech of the Honourable Mian Sir Fa?rl-i-Husaio. 13ir, it is really- an absurd proposition to. set apart the remitted amount for - ten. years when. we know that by doing so. we would 1;tot do any material ,,goQd even. to those fQn whose benefit it is psoposed to create, a. s,pecii1J tuad, Onthe othee hM4, it if( better-for you to have a clause inserted in. the La.n4
'Bevenue Bill which ~y fu)fil the object of this resolntion, The Fina.rioW) ,Cc»:iUQ.i.',sioner said in his. speech that the land revenue of the biu:ani. tmctS: '.is [email protected]. You say; no, wait for ten years. Is that symp~hy for the popr cultivator- of the barani areas ? Again, S~, let us suppose that the:
· Honourable Si11 Geoffrey de1\Iontmorency and the Honourable Mian Sir · Fa.z.H·Husa.in a.ceept this. resolution, but where is. the guarantee tha,t ewe~ ;aft~r the next ten years th~y would be filling the same offiee and the an:ioa.'Q.t ~roposed by- you to be set apart would be spent in the manner
::ap,x:o-vecl ofb~ them or by you ? Ther.e will be other persons filling. th~i,r plB,.l:le&. and other people in our- seats. What guarantes is there that they will act according to our wishes'? I do not think that the person. wh~,xµis.s.es his ehanee ia wise. We have got the power to benefit the peo1le now. ; you want us to. stfl\Y ow; hand for ten yea.rs end l~t other perso11~ ;,. 11.~
-the mpn~y ~ they would like. By pressing thisreaolubion, you. are n9t,_ re pri;i~iµg, thf;l. :(;anii,n.dai:s. in the real sense. 1,. for one, do not s.taw;L f-Ot such rep(~ilta.tipn 0£ the :aami:nd,~rs. I am npt J?repar-ed, to support the
,resp;l,u,tion which sngg~sts tha~ all programme of the general development . of ~· province shouJd be left aside, Sir, one, poiat more and I h~ve doae., M;it- ~~~- fwiQ4 ~ai ~abib Cha.µdllri Chh~t.u ~- ~&-put fc11nvar~ t~ ~Wilffiipll, w.iU\ -~ ~he fQr-Oe h~ OODllll!\Il~ t~ O'IJl' 6Xiperu:1Jtl!jl'e
rtih.~ be. o••~~-e~i.le!l ands~vi~gast.~d;be ~~ Si~t,~ ~
[24.Tll Nova. 1927 . . PtrN;rA:B LEGISLATIVE. COUNCIL. ']451·
--------------------
~! That tho question be now put."
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J R
Pandit Nanak Chand (continued in Urdu): Sir, I .would only take one minute more. I was saying that the resolution, if accepted, would stop all progress of the province and as such we should reject it. I know Sir, that the so-called representatives of the zamindars are apt to shed crocodile tears on the sufferings of their poor brethren. They are for all help to the zamindars for the nakri tracts. They have got a.11 that they wanted. They ask us to wait for ten years. No, · Sir, no, we cannot agree to a proposal of this kind. But after what I have said if they still press the resolution I would not take them as our friends but foes. With these words I oppose the resolution. · ·
Shaikh Faiz Muhammad: I move-
ask him what he had been doing during the three years in which he filled the office of Education Minister ? Why did he not curtail the expenditure? With what justification he can expect from his successor the performance of that which he himself was not able to do ? He ought to have given a lead to the public and his successors. But when once he has lost his op· portunity there is no use saying that this or that should be done. Sir, I may inform my friend Chaudhri Sahib and his colleagues that if they want to reduce the posts of Commissioners and Inspectors of Schools, I am one with them, let them put forward their proposals. I · will support them. But they should realise that if their voice is going to prove a cry in the wilderness, there is no use of making impracticable suggestions before the House. Let us calmly consider how to improve the lot of the zamindars, how to make them literate, how to save them from epidemics, from physical misery and troubles. Sir, my party is ever prepared to welcome any scheme oi taxation on the rich, on those who can bear the burden, which may go a long way to ameliorate the condition of the poor cultivators. But there must be some practical suggestions before the House. We cannot · tolerate to stop the general progress of the province for ten years. Im· mediate relief and help is needed by them. Sir, you are perfectly aware that during the last three years Bohtak, Hissar, Gujrat and some other districts of the province have lost hundreds ofpeople on account of plague
·· and other epidemics. What ? will you not give relief to the people when· their very lives are in danger ! When my honourable friend Malik Firoz Khan, Noon, is preparing a general scheme for affording adequate medical relief to the people of this province, would not this resolution stand in his way ? Most certainly it would ....
Shaikh Faiz Muhammad : Sir, is a speaker expected to repeat the arguments which other honourable members have used ?
Mr. President: The honourable member should not repeat the arguments used by others.
Pandit Nanak Chand : Sir, as an illustration I am taking this point ; I am not at all repeating the arguments.
Mr. President: The honourable member has already taken 18 minutes.
l t
lUJSOLUTION RE UT1LISATION OP THE GOVERNMENT OD' INDIA'S 1453 REMISSION FOR LEVELLING DOWN LAND REVENOE.
,,
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The question is that that resolution be adopted,
I I I
I I
!!'l'his Counoil recontm.ends to His Exoelleney the G11vei,nor in Council->
(a) th&t IL sum of Re. 50 le.khs, out of the remission made by the Government of India, in the annual contribution from this province, be set a.part annually for the nest ten yea.rs for the purpose of creating a. 6pooial fund witk ii view to levelliilg down the land reTI)ntie in the province, and in pii.rtioular to give relief to such barani tra.cts and districts in which the prospects of providing. lhigation and other facilities loi davel.opment are remote ;
(b) that the f,mount of this fond bi'! invested in tb.e mcrsgage and co-operebive ~anks, by way of loa,113 to thoee institutions at six per cent. per annum and the inoome Blom, from these inveatlllents be utilised in the Dia~ner indioatetl in the preoeding clause." ·
Mr. President : The honourable member should not do that, if he does not,. with to give the Government member a right of reply.
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat khan : Not even by way of per· sonal explanation ?
Mt. President: If the honourable member utters a single word by wa.y of reply, the Honourable Member in charge of Revenue will have a right of reply and I do not think the Honourable the Revenue Member will not exercise the right.
Captain Sardar Sikander liayat Kban : lhen, I: do ·not want to exereise my right of reply.
Pt{r. President: The ;esolution proposed runs-
Mr. President: I see that many mor~ members wish io speak on t]us i.l22Portant resolution, But as the business of the day will t~rwine.te after forty-five minutes. I propose to put the question.
f he queation is-- e Tbat the qaettlon be now pu .. "
The moiJon wu carried.
Captain $ardar Sikao.clar Hayat Khan : I am afraid that if I give a reply, the Government will also give a reply with the result that within ttve minutes the resolution may not be voted upon.
The Sonourable Mian Sir Fazl•i•Husain : If he does not wish to e~erciae his right of reply, the Government too will not exercise the right.
Mr. Ptesidon.t: ']hen the Government member will have no right of reply.
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan : That is why I am not goitig to exercise my right of reply. But 1 wish to give one explanation wiih regard to the statement made the other da.y by the Financial Com· missioner.
[24TH N OVR. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVl!I OOUNOIL. 1~4
. -~· ·\·~-~ .... - ..... ---···.·.·~·- ... --~·· .. ··-- ... -,,- -:-·.- ..... '· -·· ·-~· .. -···--._ ..... r··,
Mr. !I. M. Cowan. Mr. II. W. Emerson. Mr. F. Keays Byrne. Mr. M. :M. L. Currie. Rai Bahadur Lala S-ewak Ram. Lala Mohan Lal. Pandit Nanak Chand. Chaudhri Baldeo Singh. Bai Sahib Lala Ganga Ra.m. Lala'Gopal Das. Lala J oti Parshad, Lala Kesho Ram Sekhri. Bai Bahadur Lala Dhanpat Bai. Sardar Babadur Captain Dalpat
Singh. Sa.rdar Bahadur Sardar Sheo
Narain Singh. Mr. E. Ma.ya Das.
Riialdar Bahsdnr Nur Khan. Mian Sa.adullah Khan. Chaudhri Umar Hayat. Khan Muhammad Abdullah Khan, Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan. Sardar Narain Singh .. Ohaudhri Muhatmn&d Abdu! Rah-
man Khan, Chaudhri Af~al Haq. Shaikh MuhaJillllad Sadiq. Sarda.r Hira Singh. Sarda.r Hari Singh. Sardar Parta p Singh. Sardar Harbakhsh Singh. Sardar Habib Ulla.h. Lt. Sardsr Raghbir Singh. Bardar Bishan Singh. · Sardar Mohindar Singh.
NOES 82.
The motion was l()jli.
Colonel C. A. Gill. JI.fr. II. D. Craik, :Mr. C. M. King. 'I'he Honourable Malik Firoz Khan,
Noon. Khan Bahadur Nawab Muzaffar
Khan. :Mr. W. R. Wilson. l\fr. R. Sanderson. Mr. A. R. Astbury. Ml'. M.A. Ghani. Mr. H. F. Ashton. 'I'he Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal. The Honourable Sardar Jogendra
Singh. The Honourable Sir Geoffrey de
Montmorency. The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl·i·
Hu.sa.in. Mr. J. G. Beazley. Mr. J. D. Penny.
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan.
Mian Ahmad Yar Khan, Daultana, Sardar Buta Singh. Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram. Chaudhri Zafrul1ah Khan. Msulvi Sir Rahim Bakhsh. Malik Nawab Major Talib Mehdi
Khan. Khan Bahadur Nawab Muhammad
Jamal Khan. Shaikh Faiz Muhammad. Chaudhri Duli Chand. Rai Shahadat Khan. Chaudhri Ali Muhammad. Sayad Muhammad Husein. Khan Bahadur Malik Muhammad
Amin Khan.
The Council then divided : Ayel5 81, Noes 82.
AYES 81.
RBSOLUTION RE UTIJ.,UIATION OF 'rHJI 00\1:llllNM:ENIJ OP INDIA~S REMili!• 1'85 BION FOR LEVELLING DOWN LAND REVENUE,
RESOLUTION RE ACTION TANEN BY GOVERNMENT ON RESOLUTIONS PASSED A~TD ours CAllllIED BY THE LEGISLATIVE Cotrxon.,
Mian Ahmad Yar Khan, Daultana [ Multan East (Muhammadan), Rural J: Sir, I beg to move:-
" Thia Council recommends to the Government that a statement showing the D.llture of the action taken on every resolution passed and cYery cut carried by this Council should be placed on the table of the House and a copy of the Btate ment ~upplied to every member of thia Council at the commencement of the autumn session each year, reasons being given for delay, if ;my, in taking action or for refusal to take action when it is intended to take no action."
This resolution is so non-controversial, so harmless and so useful that it hardly requires any speech from me in support of it. This resolution is too simple to be explained. It is for the good of the Government as well as for the good of the members of the Council. It is for the good of the Government because criticism, in many cases unjustly, is levelled against the Government that no action whatsoever is taken on the resolutions passed by this House, while some action or the other whether very effective or otherwise fa taken on every resolution adopted and every cut carried by the House and a statement of the kind I suggest will mitigate such criticism. It is for the good of the members of the Council because it will furnish i:he members w:ith the facts that stood in the way of Government to accept the recommendations of the Council and the members concerned or the members interested in the motion which was carried in the Council, but which could not he accepted by the Government for some reason or other, will try to bring the motion in a subsequent session in a modified form in the light oi the reasons that are given by the Government. So in this way this motion is twice blessed ; it blesses those who support it and it blesses those who accept it.
Mr. President: The resolution moved runs:- " This Council recommends to the Governmentthat a statement showing the nature
of the action taken on every resolution passed and every cut carried by this Conneil should be placed on tho table of the House ancl a copy of the statement supplied to every member of t.hfa Council at tlie comn-cncement oft.he autumn session each year, reasons lming given for delay, if any, in taking act.ion or for refusal to ta.ke act.ion when it i~ intended to take no net.ion."
The question is that that resolution be adopted. The Honourable Sir Geoffrey deMontmorency (Finance
Member): Sir, honourable members will perhaps have observed that during the course of the present session, in answer to a question put by an honourable member, the Chief Secretary laid on tho table a statement showing the action taken by Government or the reasons for not taking action, where action was not. taken, in the case of all the resolutions passed by the Punjab Legislative Council, which was in existence before the present Council. That shows that the principle which the honourable mover in his
RESOLUTION RE APPLICATION OF THE PRINCIPLES OF ASSESSMENT OF INCOME-TAX TO THE ASSESS}.tENT OF LAND REVENUE,
The following resolution standing in the name of Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal was not moved :-
" TJ:ij_q Council recommends to rho Government that the policy of applying the principles governing -the assessment of ineorne-tax to the assessment of land revenue should ho adopted as a goal to be reached within the next forty years, a, beginning being ma.de as soon as possible, preferably in the present Land Ro venue Bm to afford relief to the class of smallest holders."
[24TH N OVR, 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE CO:C:NOIL. 1456
The resolution was by leave withdrawn.
resolution has pnt forward has already been accepted by Government ; and as far as his concrete resolution goes, I am quite prepared, on behalf of Government, to accept tlie first portion of tI1fa resolution : that is, I am pre pared, on behalf of Government, to agree that a statement will be placed on the table of the House at the beginning of the autumn session each year showing the resolutions which were passed by this House and showing in the ease of each resolution where Government has taken action on the reso lution, what action it has taken and in the case where Government has not taken action on the resolution, the reasons why it has not taken action. Therefore, I accept in its entirety the first suggestion which the honourable mover has made .
.As regards the second suggestion, I feel some difficulty, I do not want to promise, on behalf of Government, to do something which Government could not perform. In the case of a resolution the House makes d definite recommendation. If that resolution is passed, then there stands on the records of this House a definite recommendation to Government on a definite subject either that it should take certain action or it should refrain from doing something which it is doing or 1t should legislate on some concrete recommen dation made to Government. It is, therefore, an easy question to answer whether Government has taken action on that clear recommendation or whether it has not taken action. In the case of a cut, supposing some one moves that a demand under a certain head be reduced by Re. 1 and sup posing that is carried, it is not always easy to see the exact ground on which the House carries it. In fact, the views of the honourable mover who moves the cut may not be tho views, which after a certain amount of debate, eventually induce other honourable members of the House to support him and pass the cut. A good deal of criticism of various details may come up and various members may put forward various suggestions and criticisms in the course of such a debate. Ir is not easy, therefore, for Government, at the close of the debate, to discover what is the actual recommendation, ii there is a recommendation, which the honourable members make to Gov ernment. Practically all it can get out of t}1e motion for cut is that as regards certain details connected with a certain department certain mem bers are dissatisfied, some for one reason and some for another. If a motion for cut does contain any simple and clear-cut recommendation to Govern ment, I am quite prepared in that case also to lay a. statement on the table as to what action has been taken; but where the deba.tA bas been of a gene ral character and there have been many kinds of criticisms, where nothing clear emerges like in a resolution passed in this House, there it will not be possible for Governmont to take the same action as we cheerfully agree to take in the case of a resolution. I hope what I have said will meet the point of view of the honourable mover of this resolution and that he will accept the offer I have made as going as far as we possibly can go in tho direction of his own suggestion.
Mian Ahmad Yar Khan, Daultana : Sir, in view of the acceptance of the first part of my resolution by the .Honourable the Finance Member, I do not want to press my resolution. I accordingly beg leave to withdraw it.
RESOLUTION RE AC'.l'ION TAKEN BY GOVERNMENT ON RESOLDTIONS 1457 PASSED AND CUTS CARRIED BY THE LEGISLATIVE COU:'-<CII,.
RESOLUTION BE UNANI AND AVURVEDIO SYSTEI\IS OF MEDICINE.
Lala Mohan Lal [North-East Towns (Non-Muhammadan), Urban]: Sir, I beg to move-
" This Council recommends to the Government to announce that it is their policy to encourage and promote in this province the study of the Unani and Ayur· vedic systems of medicine."
Sir, jt ii!! my misfortune that I have only about seven minutes before the Council will adjourn. I have here before me the statement issued by the Secretary of the 'I'ransferred Departments, on the 15th July, 1927, which gives the attitude of the Government with regard to the Unani and Ayur vedic systems of medicine in the Punjab. In this cornmuniqu.e I find that the dark side of the Unani and Ayurvedic systems has been depicted, while the white spot thD,t exists in those systems has not been put from the reports to which reference has been made in the communique. I will take paragraph 9 in which it is said-
" Even the :otost enthusiastic supporters of the indigenous systems feel that thev 11,re defective in respect of many sides of medical knowledge and require t'o be supplemented by a very large amount of western medicine and surgery."
~f hat is true. But from the report of the committee over which the Honourable Gokarnath Misra presided it will be found that surgery existed in India even before it was known to the western countries. It has gono simply because there has been no patronage for it. by the Government which has been goveming India. In the Punjab as well as in India om difficulty with regard to these systems of Unani and Ayurveda is this that every government wants to patronise that system that is in vogue in their country. The western medical system is being pushed through in India and in the Punjab simply because those who are in power know the value of it. The original systems, the Unani and the Ayurvedio are being ignored or am not, being supported in the same way. They are not being supported in the same way simply because the Government in power does not think it necessary to give it so much encouragement.
The second point is, the communique says- !' In some aspects the Unani system of to-day is in fact at a stage where the west
ern system of medicine stood some centuries ago." This is also true because no steps are being taken to encourage and
develop it. It is my submission, Sir, that the primary duty of every Govern ment is to develop the system which exists in the country and which has suited for a long ti.roe to the need of the people for whose benefit it was meant. But what we find in India is that Government does not give the same amount of encouragement either to the Unani or the Ayurvedic systems. I, there fore, would like to have a statement from the Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government in regard to my resolution and I will therefore hurrv up my speech, I will not deal with the whole subject, but what I would submit ir, this~ Government should establish a college in the Punjab for imparting instruction in Unani and Ayurvedic medicine. If the Government is unable for the time being to do this, then I would request that Government should give encouragement to the D. A.-V. and the Islamia Colleges which impart instruction in these subjects. The method by which these institu tions should receive encouragement is firstly that a course should be prescrib ed for giving instrnotion in these colleges in the said subjects ; and secondly,
[24TH N OVR, 1927, PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE OOUNOIL, 1458
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The question is that that resolution be adopted.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon (:.\iiuister for Local Self Government): Sir, the Unani and the Ayurvedic systems of medicine have as much sympathy from me as they have from the honourable member who has moved the resolution. But I, being responsible for the expenditure o_f public money and also for the public safety, have to look to a lot of things before I can give practical effect to my sympathy. 'Ilhe present system of medicine that is prevailing in our hospitals is called by my friend ' the western system of medicine.' But that system of medicine is nothing but a system which is based on the old Greek system from which both Unani and Ayurvedie systems derived their origin. So, most of the things that are in the Unani and Ayurvedic systems do exist in the western system of medicine. Moreover, there are many things in the western system which do not exist in the Unani and the Ayurvedic systems; because the western science has advanced so far as to be miles ahead of the Unani and the Ayur· vedio systems which have been more or less stationary for so many years in the past. If the statement of policy that Government wish to encourage the Unani and the Ayurvedic systems means that Government wish to replace the present system of our hospitals and medicine by the Unani and the Ayurvedio systems, I think that will certainly be a retrograde step. But if my honourable friend says that we should try to create hakim« and vaids who can go and work in the villages for small ailments such as headaches and colds, for that purpose I think the hakims and vaids will cer tainly come in very useful. I have recently been trying to study the teaching of the Ayurvedie and Unani systems of medicine. For that very purpose I went to Delhi in order to have a look at the Unani and '.Uibbia College established there some years back in order to acquaint myseli of these two valuable systems. 'Ilhe first thing that struck me was that I found the Principal o:f the College to be an l\'I.B., B.S. of the Lahore Medical College. 'Ilhat shows that in order to run the college a man trained in the western system is required. 1..l;hen, I went to one class room and I asked the teacher
!~ This Council recommends t-o the Government to announce that it is their policy to encourage and promote in this province the study of the Unani and .Ayurvedic systems of medicine."
Government should give facilities to the students of these institutions fo» learning pathology, anatomy and such other subjects for which there is no facility in these colleges ; thirdly, Government should give increased grant to these institutions ; fourthly, there should be a standard of examination and the examination should be conducted by the University; fifthly, Govern ment should take steps to standardise these medicines.
Sir, in the last part of the note to which I referred in the beginning it is stated that the Government will help this system consistently with the resources that are found available. On the propaganda for the western medicines about 70 lakhs of rupees every year are being spent. May I not request Government to spend, say, about _1a lakh of rupees every year for the propaganda and for the help of the Ayurvedio and Unani medicines? As I should like to hear what the Honourable Minister has got to say I will not dilate on this subject awl I will accordingly resume my seat.
Mr. President: The resolution moved runs-
l\ESOLUT10N RID UKANI AND AYURVEDIC SYSTEMS OF MEDIOINE, i459
hB PLC-415-13·12·)7-SGPl:' ta.bore. ,·
[The Hon. Malik Firoz Khan, N oon.J in charge of the class what he was teaching. He told me that he was teach ing pharmacy. When asked what text book he followed he replied that there was no text-book, and that tho teaching was oral. In other classes, I found that the students were really taught :good text-books. There were text· books on hygiene, pathology, anatomy and so on, translated from English text-books into Urdu. '.IJhey have also translated into Urdu the first book of Gray's Surgery. 'Ilhe second book is under translation. \Vhan the book is translated we will probably have a. complete set of books for teaching surgery. :.VIy object in explaining these things is this, that even in the Ayurvedic and Unani systems we. foe! a necessity for adopting the western science as it has been improved in the west. What is happening in the illibbia. College is that tho ground work is on the Unani and the Ayurvedio systems and on the top of that they adopt books that are being taught in the Medical College hero ?
My honourable Irieud has suggested that we ought to establish a college here to teach these two systems of medicine. I am afraid that that will be a wrong step at the beginning. Wo have at present a college at Delhi. In that college for Ayurvedic class there are about 87 boys and for the Unani class there are something liko 304. Of these, a large· number are from this province. So there is already an institution existing at Delhi where our boys can go and receive their education. 'J!hu.t institution is not still firm on its legs and any competition with that by establishing another will kill that institution, while it will not attract sufficient students for your own college.
Seconclly, it is quite easy to suggest the establishment of a college. But it is not eaily to give effect to the suggestion. For, the establishment of a college will cost some money ; and whether you are prepared to spend money on that college or whether you wish to spend that in expanding rural dis pensaries is a question which I leave to be decided by the House. I do not wish to detain ·the House very much longer on the subject, but I will just give you what the views of the Government on the subject are .
At this stage the Council adjourned till 2 P. M. on Friday, the 25th November 1927.
[24TH Nova, i927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COtJ'NOit.
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.B
1" That the Panjab Land Revenue (AO\end!llent.) Bill be ci.roulated for the purpoee cl .--eliciiUII opinion Uierton by 211t January 1928."
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ONfH OF OFFICE. The following members were sworn in:
Crump, Mr. R. H. (Official nominated). Stewart, Mr. H. R. (Official nominated).
THE PUNJAB LAND REVENUE (AMENDMENT) BILL.
Mr. President: The Council will now resume discussion on the -amendment" of Chaudhri Afzal Haq.
Chaudhri Afzal Haq (Hoshiarpur-cum-Ludhiana, Rural) ( Urdu): Before the House adjourned on the last official day, I was submitting that the principle underlying the Bill now before the House fails to meet the require· .ments of the zamindars, This Council has been for the last six years conti nuously pressing upon the Government that the zamindars will be satisfied' ·with nothing but permanent sebtlern m~. A'l bug as this is not done and the ·principle is not embodied in the Bill, wa can never be satisfied. India pays :£0 much land revenue that the like of it cannot be seen anywhere else in the world. The Government itself has admitted it.
The Honourable Mian Sir Faz] .. i .. Husain: Where does it admit that?
Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Will you please quote "some other instance -where you find so heavy land revenue? In England itself absolutely no land revenue is charged.
The Honourable Miao Sir Fazl-i-Husain : They do not cultivate land there.
Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Now, Sir, this revenue does not account for II erore or two; it is 33 per cent. of the whole of the income o\ the Government .and has been providing the means wherewith the Government has been run for centuries and non-agriculturists have profited byit. I do not say that -ti.ey should not" profit .. f'only state facts. Either adopt some other principle .of taxation "Whereby the burden m'loy be more evenly distributed or m'.1.ke .a permanent settlement. We are fed up with settlements, They haunt us "like a. curse every thirty years, twenty years and even ten years. But in -spite of that the Government has never so far thought what a burden these -eecurring aettlementa are to the people. For a settlement made in the year 1928-24 we spent 13 lakhs, for another in 1925 we gave 7! lakhs and there is not a year that passes without our sanctioning some thing for one settle·
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. ~ND SESSION OF THE SRD PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
Friday, the 25th Not ember 1927. 'l'hs Council met at the Council Chamber. at two of the
eluck. }fr. President in the C~nir.
:..
[ Cba.udhri Afzal Haq. ] ment er another. These are all unnecessary burdens and a waste. This-· money can be made to serve much more usstu.i"purpose. Sir, mine is not the- first voice to ask for a permanent settlement. People and their representa tives and even very responsible government officials have tried for it on various occasions. Lord Canning recommended that in 1861, ~ir John Lawrence, later Lord Lawrence, made a similar proposal en the 5th July 1862r T4enaga.in, Sir CharlesWood, later Lord Halifax, made that proposal on the gth July 1862. The First Secretary of State for India also made a similar pro· posal to the Government that a scheme of permanent settlement should be evolved and that the people of the country should be saved from recurring settlements. Ultimately on 8th June 1864 the Governor-General in Council on the advice of all these officers wrote to the Home Government that per manent settlement should be sanctioned. The Secretary of State agreed to the suggestion on 24th March l86oand obtained the sanction of His Majesty's., Government in 1867 to the principle of permanent settlement though the· details were left to be decided by the Government of India and the Secretary 0f State between themselves. But, Sir, suddenly this happy trend of events came to a. stop.
: Diw,.n ~ah-.dur Raja .Narendra Nath : I rise to a point of order. The motion before the House is that the Bill be circulated for the purpose of· eliciting public opinion, but my friend is dilating upon the principles of sssessment and the advisability of having permanent assessment or temporary assessment. I do not see the relevancy of this point to the debate before the · House.
Mr. President: Will the honourable member please explain how bia · speech is relevant to the debate?
Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Sir, my object in moving the motion to circulate the Bill is to delay the passing of the Bill in the near future (A voice: Or to avoid its being passed at all). Yes Sir, my personal opinion is. that if the Bill cannot be improved, it must be opposed and if it is presented in its present form, I shall certainly opposait,
Mr. President: The amendment moved by the honourable member is· tha.t the Punjab Land Revenue (Amendment) Bill, which the Honourable the · Revenue Member has proposed to refer to Select Committee be oireu lated for the purpose of eliciting public opinion thereon, but now he is direct ing his speech to a different end, that is, he is against the Bill in its entirety as it'stands, I do not think he is relevant now to his own amendment •
. C::hau..clhri Ab.al H;aq : That was only a side talk. The Honourable Revenue Muuber raised a side issue. - Sir, I submit that we want the principle· of permanent settlement to be incorporated in the Bill. I am giving my reasons to show that people also will object to the introduction of the · Bill in its present form and will press for permanent settlement,
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl .. i~Husain (Revenue Member): In the first instance, Sir, I must acknowledge that in the debates in this· House the honourable member from Hoshiarpur and Jullundur takes very great pains indeed to discuss various matters.
· Captain Sardar Sik~ndal' Hayat 'Khan: I rise to a point of order· Is the amendment before the House ? · .·· · · .
[25TH Nova. 1927..- PL'NJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1462
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since which an amendment has been moved." "Tlut.t the Punjab Land Revenue (Amendment) Bill be circulated for the purp01e, ·
t>f dicitjng opinion thereon by 21st ,January 1928." . The question is that that amendment be made. The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Hmain: Sir, I was trying to pay a;
compliment to the honourable member for Hoshisrpur on the fact that he • takes very great pains in his work connected with the Legislative Council'.
and he has been taking a prominent part almost in every subject that has, . come up for discussion. That of course does a great deal of credit to · him and I have no doubt it involves a great deal of time and labour, and· any one who in public interest devotes his time and energy to public work . deserves the congratulations of all who are interested in making these Couneils a success. Yet, Sir, I believe I would be doing him and the Council a. friendly: act if I were to point out that the affairs of the administration are so multifarious and so complex that it is impossible for any one individual to become an- expert in all of them. 'I'here are some matters which are easier to understand than others, and if I am not mistaken probably the revenue- . work is more complex and complicated than any other work connected with the administration of this province. "Therefore when one tries to taekls a, matter connected with revenue administration, it is necessary not to be eon tent with just skimming over a few pages of some report and getting .some hazy ideas about the subject, because then one is liable to entertain certa.in impressions and ideas which really are not the ones to be. derived from the: data given in those pages. Now, the honourable member, I have no doubt, has heard about the permanent settlement of Bengal and· has derived his, inspiration from the Congress resolutions that the only remedy for all the ills of India is permanent settlement. But we, Sir, who have to grapple with: the bard realities of the administration and know the actual ha voe water-log ging is causing in some districts realize what would he the position under permanent settlements of those distriots, wherein this evil of water-logging is spreading : And keeping in mind the warning that our experts give us, is it wise for the Punjab to stabilise its land revenue which is fairly high? I wish simply to point out in passing that it is not possible to rely upon a casual study of difficult and complicated problems, and that general obssrva tions may well be left to general subjects like corruption in the police, for instance, or the separation of judicial and executive functions and things of that kind that really cannot do very matenal.hana to a..ver.y large numbee of people ofthe province in case they are accepted, in Council.
Mr. President: Not yet. The original motion we.s "That the Punjab Land Revenue (Amendment) Bill be referred to & Select Oonunittee,
consisting of- The. Honoorable Member. for Finance, The Revenue Secretary, The Legal Remembrancer (ex·offi,;io), The Member in charge of the Bill, &ye.d 1'foha.mmad Husain; Diwan. &ha.dur a,aja Narendre Nath, Re.i. Piroe-ud-Din Khan, Sarder Ujjal Singh,.and The. President's nominee."
'av.~- WE P@JAB ··~ REVENUE (-*11JIDMEN1") BJLr,.
•
'[Ron. Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain.J Sir, I had every intention when the subject was taken un in Council to
accept the amendment that the honourable mover had tabled because I thought that here is a measure which started in 1921, but that is its recent history ; if I were to go back to its past history, it started in 1910. It has taken six years to proceed with it; two months more will make no difference. It will give me time to crystallise my ideas and it will satisfy the House. But when the honourable mover proceeded to say that his object in proposing his amendment was not that this measure should come back after two months but that he objected to the Bill root and branch, I have no option but to say that I cannot possibly accept the amendment. The honourable mover although he has spoken at considerable length-he started the discus· sion on the last official day-has not said a. word in support of his amendment to the effect that for the following reasons it is necessary not to proceed with the proposal to refer the Bill to the Select Committee, and that there are certain advantages to be gained by circulating it for the purpose of ,eliciting public opinion. Still I feel I may as well place the Council in
.- possession of all the facts connected with this case so that they may deter mine whether the amendment has the slightest foundation to stand upon or whether there is a. single word that one can say in support of the amendment.
Sir, as far back as 1907 or 1908 I believe there was a Royal Commission on Decentralisation. 'l'his Royal Commission in paragraph 252 rec om mended that the general principle of assessment, such for instance as the proportion· of the net profits on the lands which the Government sh111· be entitled to take and the period of settlement should be embodied in pro vincial legislation instead of being left to executive order. This recommen dation naturally had to be disposed 0£. The Government of India of those days reported to the Secretary of State that this Royal Commission had made a very great mistake in making this recommendation, that it had no j usti fication for doing it, that it had no material on which it based this recom mendation and that the Government of India could do nothing whatsoever with it. The Secretary of State said, "Your arguments are cogent and I have no wish to force your hands to do it." So in 1910 this memorable recommendation of the Decentralisation Commission remained at that verv stage and was not proceeded with. Another Commission, the Reforrri':1 Commission, came seven years later and as is well known, in the Joint Com mittee Report there was a second recommendation to the effect that tho revenue assessment which at present is based on executive orders should be raised to the status of legislation. The Government of India. in 1920 felt that the recommendation could not be as lightly brushed aside as the re commendation of the Decentralisation Commission. But at the same time they were not. prepared to forego the control they had hitherto exercised for legislation concerning revenue matters including revenue assessment and the periods of settlement. Well may some of the members ask, Sir, "What does that control consist in ?" Let me simply state this much that even the Governor of a province is not free to agree to any changes proposed bf the legislature in the period for which a settlement is made or the way in which a. :eet.tlement is mads. It is under the law, a constitutional law laid down as late as 1920, that he must reserve every point concerning a period of settle-
[25TH NoVR. 1927 .. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
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mens longer than 35 years for the decision of a Governor-General in Council, It should therefore be understood that the legislation which I am trying to introduce, rather which I have introduced and which I am trying to refer to a select committee, is a matter of extreme difficulty and complexity and more than everything else a matter of extreme delicacy. It can be smashed to pieces by the slightest touch at one of the numerous stages that it passes through. As I am trying to proceed with this legislation, it is open to members feeling that they will if they adopt a particular attitude gain more than they are likely to gain if they deal with the Bill in the way I suggest, to smash it.' If the honourable members with a large majority, nay, I say unanimously, carry certain amendments in this legislation which are not acceptable to Government, the Bill need not be proceeded with or if it is pro· eeeded with, the Governor can refuse assent or may have to reserve th# Bill for the Governor,GeneraJ's assent. Again supposing we are able to make the· Governor see eye to eye with ns. Even then he must reserve certain points. for the Governor-General in Council to decide. Even the Government of India cannot help us. To illustrate my point, Sir, what does the history of this legislation since 1920 show ? In 1921 in the Legislative Assembly a question was put on the subject. of the revenue legislation which the Joint Committee desired to be introduced in the Legislative Council. The Honour able Member in charge of the Revenue Department in the Government of India said that focal Governments have been informed that they can do so. Questions were put here by Sir Syad Mehdi Shah and by Sayad Mohammad. Husssin asking Government whether the Punjab Government would intro. duce revenue legislation. 'Ihev were answered that the Financial Com missioners had been requested to consider the matter. They did not let;. grass grow under their feet. - '.I hey rushed with their resolutions, one was put in by Mian Muhammad Shah Nawaz, another by Malik Firoz Khan Noon, and a third by Sayad Muhammad Husain, desiring Government to proceed with legislation rind a resolution was passed. This was in 1921. Punjab Government did not delay matters, appointed a committee, a large number of officials and non-officials sat on it day after day, week after week and month after month and towards the end of 1922 some sort of Bill was prepared. [he Council was so pressing at reasonable times and even at unreasonable times in demanding the introduction of this Bill that they had recourse to constitutional and if I may venture to say sometimes unconstitutional' ways and forced £he Government to bring in this legislation. This Govern· ment had done all it could to seek the previous sanction of the Government of India in 1923. Correspondence passed between the central Government and the j rovineial Government and it took actually three years or rather between two and three years for this Government to secure the previous assent to the introduction of this Bill as it stands and which is, I regret to notice, not accept able to the honourable member. Having obtained the previous assent of the Government of India towards the end of 1925, in the beginning of 1926 I introduced it as it stands. As the Bill had been in the hands of honourable members only for a short time, I did not wish in that very session to move that it be referred to a select committee, but two months later in the budget session I made that motion and the Bill was accordingly referred to a select committee of the previous 'Counoil. I at once requested honourable members not only to study the Bill, but also to send in all the suggestions they could think of for the improvement of the Bill. The response to that
'nlE PUNJAB L.4.ND REVE'HJE {AMENPMENT) BILL, 146?'
{Hon.. Miaii Sil' Fazl·i·R~in.J .appeal was very great. That appeal was printed in the Punjab papel'fi and .llbt only the members of the Council but others also were requested if they -twk interest in the subject to send in their suggestions.
A pile of amendments was the result. The select committee met more than once in Simla. We had all these amendments tabulated and they , really constitute a little paper -book by themselves. The discussion showed _that the points 'in issue were so numerous and were so difficqlt that there was no hope of the select committee being in a position to make the report in time for the legislature to consider it carefully and pass tho measure be fore the Council was due to · be dissolved for fresh elections. Therefore :it ~s decided upon by the select committee that they need not proceed any .Iurthor as the legislature had not enough time to thrash out the Bill, but that as soon as the new Council was elected, I was to re-introduce it. In pursuance of that wish of the expiring Council, I introduced tho Bill again in the March Session of the present Council. It has been printed in the ()azefk and in the public press and honourable members have had more than one copy of it since then and here we are to-day with this motion for raferenoo :to the select committee. No, as a matter of fact I was bound to make this motion of reference to the select committee at the Simla session, but as I :had to go away, I consulted several honourable members, and tl,e members and myself mutually agreed that it would probably be best if l were to make this motion on my return from Europe. In pursuance of that agreement, when I made that motion, I naturally expected that members would agree because what .I was doing was in pursuance of their wish and it was to me a matter of surprise that any honourable member should be in favour ·Of the motion that the Bill be not referred to a select committee hut that it 'be circulated for opinion. I had come back after a long journey and prow .bably tlvire was a tendency at tho time in my own mind to shirk hard work. J said to mysolf, after all if it is putting off all this hnrd work for another ton wooks, I should gladly agree to it. But, I never realised for a moment that th!'! objoct of the honourable member was to challenge tho very basis .of the Bill and to say not that he wanted time to study it because hB l a-t been ;too busy with other matters, but his object was to rnlog?..( e the bill to waste paper basket because it is not worth looking at .•
In tho speech which I made at the time when I made tho motion to refer thf' Bill to a select committee, that is in l 92fi, I had staten what this Bill professed to bo. It dooa not profess to be a measure which had been evolved by some wonderful brain to meet all the aspirations of the, Punjab land holding class, It does not profess that to bo at all. It simply professes to incorporate in a legislative measure the practice actually in force as to settlements in the Punjab and tho way tho settlements nm made, ths perisd after which sottloments have to be made, and tho form in which they have to be made. That is what tho -Ioint Select Committee asked us to. do. They liaid : '' <lo not keep this power in the hands of the exeoutivs, give it a. legislativ,:i garb." That is to say, the direction simply consists in this ; "put in legislative form the actual practice in existence". In doing so, I claim t.hat certain improvements have boon made. ~me people may c9nsid,et those improvements to be considerable, others may consider them ority miu1lling arid some others may consider them' as absolutely worthless;
(25TH Nova, 1927. PUNJAB LE(USLATIVE COUNCIL,
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1'ilE PUN'-.tAfi LAND REVENUE (AMJiJNlJME::-.T) BILL, 1467
-htile and insufficient. That depends on the mentality of the individual -persori, · Some men may ju!it 19(,k ·~ ·gift horse In the mouth in order to count
, : Us Meth; -others may say : " Well, aftEff' all, it is a gift horse, I should pf)f, be ungracious", Tbe Bill ·contains three things. . . One is as to the
. p8ri'od of sattlement. It used to be between twenty and thirty years. Now, jn the Bill it is definitely ~tated to be 40. Theta is a difference between the .:.aotual practice and the period specified in the Bill, a considerable differehde
-indeed. Again it is perfectly well understood that the proportion of net .:MMts taken was up t.o 50 per cent. It is true that it was never, or vefy
·;:aeldofu that actua:lly 50 per cent. was taken. Now, in the Bill it is rle:initely put down as 88! per cent. '.Tihere again t~t great discretion whie\ the Settlement Officer had=-he may not have exercised that discretion, but there was nothing to prevent him from exercising it except his good sense is now curtailed and it is definitoly laid down that he cannot take more than
,..881 per cent. The third improvement that the Bill contains is that the in· crease over the past settlement should not exceed 3Sl per cent, Formerly
· there was no such thing whatever. A study of the various settlements of . .different districts would show that in the past more than 88-l per cent. has been taken, while since 1921, I claim that nowhere has the increase been
· more- than 881 per cent. In more than one report that came to me, I have _uot.iced that where there has been an increase of more than 33! per cent., .either the Financial Commissioner or the local Government have already .redueed it to less than 331 per cent., showing thereby their desire .to do what they can to meet the wishes of the landholding classes even before
· Jegislation is actually passed. I consider, Sir, that these are the improve- ments made, whether you assess them at a low value or a.t a. middling value
.or a.t a. high value. When the Bill is roforred to the select committee, it • ig open to the members of the Legislative Council, subject to tho question
:_of principle so far as percentage is concerned, to arrive at a different deei , sion, though whether they should arrive a.t, a. different decision or not is quite a different matter; or whether having arrived .at a different decision, th~y will carry that decision through in this Council or not ; or having carried it in this Council as well, whether they will actually have tha;t Bill enacted
: into an Act later on by the assent of the Governor and of the Governor-General or not are extremely important matters which they will have to consider
· vwry eerofnlly in order to formulate .a definite policy. This measure calls for tho highest form of self-control and self-restraint on the part of members, both- official and non-official. As I have already said, any sort of ziibardusti
. .on one side or the other is enough to smash tho Bill. It is to the interest . .of both sides to see that this province is the first in India to hammer out . 111 legislation which in due course will secure tho assent of the Governfil~t .<Of India- and satisfy the legitimate demands of the Iandholding' classes •
. Whether I will succeed in achieving that object does not entirely rest with -me. It rests with ma only to a very limited extent, but to a. much larger .extent, it rests with the honourable members of this House, I have tried to do my best. I have tried to give the Council my resson« for referring
,the BiU .to a select committee. It is up to the honourable members to :.aecicla that they do not want to proceed with the Bill, in whioh case thq ..ani to support the. amendment, I will treat that vote as Olm that the basic ptin.· ciples: ~f this B!~- are. not.~ acceptable to the ~oun~il1 .inasmuch ~
:J 'am no't m a position to bring forward another Bill with different baaic
[Ron. Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain.] _ principles, not having secured the assent of the Government of India. or the Oovernor-General. This Government will have done its duty that was imposed upon it by the Joint Select Committee and the Government of India. If, on the other hand you think that there is some good in the Bil],
· that it is possible to improve it and that improvement will be such as will, · not be seriously objected to by the authorities in whose hands the decision. · rests, I am at your service with all the labour and the power that I can command, to meet your wishes, to mould the bill in a way that it may sa_tisfy your aspirationa, provided always that those aspirations do not outstep the limit of, the particular line which the higher authorities have marked for us. Wifh these words, I '5.m content to leave the Bill in the hands of the Council (Hear, hear.)
Sayad Muhammad Husain [Montgomery (Muhammadan), Bural]' . (Urdu) : Sir, I am going to speak in vernacular in order to reply to the argu - ments of the Honourable the Revenue Member, while at the same time
interpreting bis speech which was delivered in English for the benefit · of. those who are not conversant with the English language.
Mt. President : Order, order. The translation of English speeches into vernacular can be ordered only by me and can be made only by the official Translator. If the honourable member makes an attempt to translate the Honourable the Revenue Member's speech, I think he will be infringing the rule which prohibits repetition of arguments used by the-
· Revenue Member.
Sayad Muhammad Husain: I said so in the hope that you will excuse the repetition. (A mice : Translation.) Somebody wants a translation. of the Honourable the Revenue Member's speech. Will you allow me to· deliver my own speech or order the translation of the speech of the Honourable· the Revenue Member ?
Mr. President: I do not think the honourable member can take hie' decision from the other members of the House. I see tha.t one honourable member has asked for a translation of the speech of the Honourable the Revenue Member. In this connection, I wish to draw the attention of the House to Standing Order 33 (4) which expressly lays down that at the Presi dent's discretion any speech may 1·mmed1'atdy after its delivery be translated in abstract from English into Urdu or vice versa by the official 'I'ranslator, Rad that request come in time, I might have considered it favourably.. but after the speech of the Honourable the Revenue Member, another member
·was called by the (hair and is now in possession of the House. The request for translation has come too late and, therefore, cannot be acceded to.
Captain Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan: The request came simul taneously with the honourable member's opening sentence. But the honour able member Sayad Muhammad Husain speaks in sueh a very loud voice that the request for translation was drowned in his voice and the request eould not be heard in time.
Mr. President: I waited to see if any member: other than the honour-: able member who is in possession of the House, would rise, but none J:Olee'
[25TH N OVR. 1927 .. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1468
and, therefore, the suggestion of the honourable member does not appear to be quite well-founded.
Sayad Muhammad Husain [Montgomery (Muhammadan), Rural] (Urdu): I would like to trace the history of the Land Revenue Bill. When
.. we first came to the Council, we thought, on the report of the Joint Select Committee of both Houses of Parliament, that we have now the full control of the land revenue policy of the province and that all our troubles were now at an end. We thought we were the masters of our affairs and in that hope we gave notices of resolutions pressing for the introduction of the Land Revenue Bill. Unluckily, in one session we could not find any place in the ballot, though in the second one it was my good luck to move a resolution. to that effect. This the Government accepted and· as a result thereof ap· pointed a committee. And it was as a result of the efforts of that committee· on whom veterans like my friend Raja Narendra Nath and others sat that we drafted the Bill after long consideration and quoting and searching. the pages of long volumes . . . . . .
Mr. President: Order, order. I would request the honourable member to speak to the amendment now before the House, i.e., the circulation of the Bill for eliciting public opinion.
Sayad Muhammad Husain : It was after a long discussion that the Bill was drafted .
Mr. President: Order, order. I may have to ask the honourable member to resume his seat. if he does not speak to the question before the· House. 'l'he only question now before the Council is whether the Bill should be circulated for eliciting public opinion thereon. The history of what the honourable speaker and his colleagues did is not relevant and · I hope he· will not narrate it.
Sayad Muhammad Husain : I oppose the amendment. My reasons are that we have already waited very long, so much so that the more the introduction of the Bill was delayed the more impatient we grew and more drastic were the steps taken by us to obtain its introduction till we began
·rejecting all demands under the Head, Land Revenue. Now, there is no· further scope left for the public to discuss this Bill. We have already had enough of public opinion,. The representatives of zamindars of all parts of the province are here and they can represent their view· points. The delay may be dangerous and may cause the utter withdrawal of the Bill. The· select committee can discuss all such matters as may be debatable. Every view point is represented in the select , committee and the group to which the honourable mover belongs is represented by a very able gentleman, Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan, and we should be sure that he will represent the views of the Khilafat group. There is our friend Raja Narendra Nath who is a gentleman of great erudition and who has been a Commissioner· and a Deputy Commissioner. He is sure to give us. . . . . . ...
Mr. President: The merits or demerits of the members of the com mittee ought not to be. discussed.
Sayad Muhammad Husain : We shall try to remove the defects of the measure in the select committee and after that the House will get full opportunity of discussing, approving or rejecting the Bill. It will be up,
146~ THE PUNJAB LAND REVENUE (AMENDMENT) BILL,
- " That the Bill be circulated for the purpose 0£ eliciting opinion thereon bv 21st Jao,
ua.ry 1928." ·
The question .is that that amendment be made. 'l'he BiQW)n was lost.
11ince which an amendment has been moved-«-
{ Sayad ·. Mtrh1tm:rnad Husain. J ·.to them to amend it or improve it or even to drop it. The Government will .also have 'the option of accepting or rejecting it, if they find that the Bill has assumed a shape which is not acceptable to them. This will save till19 and this long delayed measure will take some shape after years of continuous ,~ftotts. There are in the House gentlemen who have been members 6t tho
· .f!o1wc.il since Uie Reforms and even before that. They know all about :its history and they can certainly do a lot to improve it. In the House
· there are zamindars and non-zamindars, there are those who belong to the left \ving and those who belong to the advanced wing. All of them will have a say. No useful purpose would he served by its circulation. The honourable member .has said one thing in his amendment and has said quite another in his speech in which he opposes the Bill in its entirety. Its circu lation for eliciting public opinion will prove the death of this Bill which may never be presented again in the Council. I, therefore, oppose the amend· .ment.
Chaudhri Afzal Haq: Have I got a right of reply, Sir? Mr. President: The honourable member has no right of reply. The -Honourable Mian Sir Ful .. i-Husain: May I; with your per-
mission, Sir, add two more members to the select committee? I wish to add Chaudhri C'hhotu Ram who has been associated with me in dealing with the Bill and also the Financial Commissioner who deals with revenue sottleme:nts.
'Mr. President: The Honourable Member cannot, I am afraid, amend his own motion. Any other honourable member in the House may move that amendment.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon: I move - " That the following members be added to the select committee :~
Rai Sahib Chaudhrj Chhota Ram, and Mr. H. D. Craik,"
Mr. President : The original motion was- " That the Punjab Land Revenue (Am~ndment) Bill be referred to a select committee
consisting of the following :- The Honourable Member for Finance, The Revenue Secretary, The Legal Remembrancer (ex-officio), The :M:em her in Charge of the Bill, ~a;yad Muhammad Husain, Diwan Bahadur Raja Narendra Nath, Rana Flroz-ud-Din Khan, Sardar Ujjal Singh, and The President's nominee,"
[25TR N OVB, 1927. l't1N.1.AB 1..1:GISLA'riVE COUNCIL.
THE PUNJAB DISTRICT BOARDS (TAX-VALIDATING) BILL.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon (Minister for Local :Self-Government) : Sir, I beg to introduce the Punjab District Boards {Tax-Validating) Bill.
Pandit Nanak Chand [Hoshiarpur (Non-Muhammadan), Rural]: Sir, I want to raise a preliminary objection that this Council cannot take cog nisance of the Bill.
Mr. President: The Bill has been introduced ar d there is no motion before the House.
Pendit Nanak Chand: The Bill has been·· introduced when the Honourable Minister said ' I introduce the Bill' ; and I: think I can take the objection now, but if it is your ruling that I should take this objection :at a later at.age, I am ready to do so.
;iJfoce 'Which an amendment has be'en moved- '"I'hat the following members be added to the select committee:
Rai Sahib Ohaudhri Chhotu Ram, and Mr. H. D. Craik;"
The question is that that amendment be made. The motion was carried. Mr. President: The question is-
" That the Punjab Land Revenue (Amendment) Bill be referred to -a select oommlttd consisting of the following :~ The Honourable Member for Finance, The Revenue Secretary, The Legal Remembrancer (ex-officio}, The- Member in Charge of the Bill, 81.ya.d Muhammad Husain, Diwan Bahadur Raja Narendra Nath, Rana. F'iroz-ud-Din Khan, Sardar Ujjal Singh, The President's nominee, Bai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram, and Mr. H. D. Craik."
The motion was carried.
T1IE PUNJAB LA-ND lt:&VENUE (Alll~NDMi:NT) :emr •• Mr. President : The original motion was-
"That ·ure Punjab Land Revenue (.Amendment) Bill be referrr,d to a a~leot com. mittee consisting ·of the ·following::- The Honotrra;bJe:Memlter.fol' .Finance, The Revenue Sec1eta?7, · I The Leg.i Remembnncer (ex-o.f/ido), The ·Membel' in Charge ofthe Bill, Sayad lluhe.mm'l.d Husain, Di wan Bahsd nr Ra ta N are ndra ·Nath, Rana Firoz-ud-Din Khan, Sardar Ujj&l Sh,gb, and The President's nominee, "
1471
,
Raizada Hans Raj: Or you pay it from your own pockets.
The Honourable Malik Fir.oz Khan, Noon: .I have not so muoh money. What we must consider will be the consequences in case this Bill is not passed. It will naturally give rise to endless litigation, and the finances of the district boards will receive an unprecedented shook, which may even make some 0£ them bankrupt. Again, Sir, our programme of work will be adversely affected by it. 1,Ve aro building hospitals, starting· schools and repairing the roads in the rural areas. The district boards .oontribute a considerable share of the expenditure out of their revenues for the work of development which wo have undertaken. If they wore made· to refund the amount of money collected by them in the form of hasiyat tax, naturally they will not have sufficient funds for helping the Government in t~r beneficent activities and the building of schools and hospitals and roads will have to be abandoned. As tho result of the ruling of the Lahore· High Court, the Hoshiarpur District Board has already curtailed its ex penditure to the extent of Rs. 70,000 and many other district boards may
{Urdu) : Sir, the Lahore High Court has recently held the Hasiyat Tax. imposed by the District Board of Sialkot to be illegal and ultra vires ; on the ground that it is a form of income-tax, the imposition of which requires the sanction of the Governor-General in Council. The Basiyae Tax was levied by 23 District Boards under section 30 of the District Boards Act, with the previous sanction of the Local Government, upon such persons living in rural areas, who do not pay the local rates. And since the Hasiyat Tax. was in the form of income tax, the Local Government was not entitled to,
. permit its imposition, without tho previous sanction of the· Governor-General in Council and it was on this ground that the High Court gave a decree against· the Sialkot District Board. This defect has now teen removed, inasmuch as we Lave received the sanction of tho Governor-General in Council. 'l'he decision of the High Court may reem unimportant on the face of it, but, Sir it will have far reaching consequences on the finances of the district boards. and on the programme of work that we have in hand. 'I'wenty-throo dis trict boards of the province have been collecting this tax, the earliest imposi tion being in the year 1918 arm the receipts so far under this head have reached tho colossal amount cf Rs. 1.5! lakhs of rupees. Sir, if this Bill is. not passed which seeks to validate this imposition, it moans that these dis~ trict boards will have to refund this money as decided by the High Court
Mr. PJ'etidtnt: I invite the honourable member's attention to· Article 73 of the Constitutional Manual, which says that when a Bill has. been published in the Government Gazette by order of His Excellency the Governor, then no motion for leave to introduce the Bill need be made and that is the reason why no motion for leave to introduce the Bill has been made. The Honourable Minister for Local Self-Government has simply introduced the Bill. 'lhere is the next motion on the agenda that the Bill. be taken into consideration. When that motion is made, the honourable member may put forward his objection.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon (Minister for Local Self-Government) : Sir, I beg to move-
" That the Punjab District Boards (Tax- Validating) Bill be taken into conaidera • tdon."
[25Tll Nova, 1927 •. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1472 ..
"(2) The local legisJa.ture of any province may, subject to.the provisions of the ~ub·. section next following, repeal or alter as to tha,t province any law made either before or after the conlmencement of this Act by any authority in British India other than that local legislature.
(3) The local legislature of a,ny province may not, without the previous sa=tion of the Governor-General, make or take into consideration any law-
(a) irn.posin~ or authorising the imposibicu of any new tax unless the tax is II, t&x scheduled ae exempted from. bhis provision by rules made under this Act."
So :far as the two schedules go, this Bill is not covered by them, and so far as the authority confined in this section imposing or authorising the 'imposition of any new tax is concerned, we are not authorising or imposing -any new tax at this stage ; we are trying to validate an act of aggression by the aistrict boards on the liberty of the subjects which they enjoy under the Crown. As regards clause (2) it is definite and clear and a finding to this .effect has been given by the High Court that the tax levied by the .distriot boards is wioome-tax, The Income-Tax Act is an Act which was passed by the Indian Legislature. 'Ilhe Income-Tax Act· " extends ·to the whole of British India, including British Baluchistan and the Santhal Parganas, and applies also, within the dominions of Princes and Chiefs in -~~--·· ... -~ .-...
3 P. M.
'follow its example. Again, Sir, some honourable members may be labour· ing under the misconception that if they give their assent to the Bill now, it may prove a source of
perpetual trouble and hardship to the people. But I assure them that the Bill under discussion does not contemplate any such thing. It only seeks 1.o validate tho hasiyat tax levied and realised by the district boards of tho province only up to the 15th November 1927 and does not intend to per· petuate it. ·
Diwan Bahadur Raja Narendra Nath: \Vhat will be the maximum -amount of money that any one of these district boards will be called. upon to refund if this Bill is not passed into law?
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : I will give you the figures regarding the district boards of Kamal and Jullundur .. They will have to refund Rs. 1.19,000 and Rs. 1,88,000, respectively. With -these worns I beg to move that the Bill be taken into consideration.
Mr. President: The question is- ,, l'ha,t the Punjab Di~trict B ,vis : fa,c-V<\lid ~tin~) Bill b s ta.'rn-i into con~id~r,1,tion.1
Pandit~Nanak Chand [Hoshiarpur (Non-Muhammadan), Rural]: Sir, I heartily sympathise with the Honourable Minister who has just moved -this motion. Undoubtedly it is true that those people who ar , connected with the administration of district boards have placed themselves in an awkward hole, but the question which I wish to raise before this Council 'is whether this Council· has anv power to deal with this Bill. My sub mission before the House is that it is illegal and unconstitutional for this 'Council to consider this validating Bill. Now, Sir, the powers that are derived by the 10".lal Councils for the consideration of such matters are -derived under section 8(k.\. of the Government of India Act. It says-
" (I) The Iooal legislature of any province has power, subject to the provisions of this Act, to make laws for the peace and good government of the territories for the time being constituting that province."
and this is the section to which I invite your attention-
THE PUNJAB DISTRICT BOARDS (TAX·VALIOATI:-.0) BILL. 1473
[Pandit Nanak Chand.] India.in alliance with His Majesty." That was an Act passed by tho Indian Legislature, by the Imperial Legislature as it wa~ at that time called; and: I ask the Honourable Minister who wanted the House to take this Bill into consideration whether the validating Bill which he is bringing forwa.rd is an Act which repeals or alters tho Income-Tax A-0t. There is no Ineome-Iax. Act before. us, there is no section of it before us, and we are not asked either to repeal or alter tli.at Act. We could, with the sanction of the Governor General, alter or repeal _that Act,_but that Act is not before the House. It is,' therefore, clear that no sanction of the Governor-General has been ob tained for repealing or altering that Act. It is entirely a different Bill which has got nothing to do with income-tax, and we have got judicial pronounce ment of the highest authority which is binding upon us that it is an income tax and nothing but an income-tax. Unless Government can show that they are authox1red to repeal or alter the Income-Tax Act, the Bill cannot be taken into eonsideration, You can only impose this tax by repealing or altering the Income-Tax Act. Many times before this Honse. have Acts been placed for alteration. They have been dealt with section by section, and some sections of those Acts have been altered or repealed. This has boon the procedure followed and this is the correct procedure which has been followed so fa.r. So far as the Income-'l'ax Act is concerned, that is not touched at all by the present validating Bill. You cannot touch the income· tax unless you alter the Act, and you cannot derive any benefit from clause (3) of section 80-A oi the Government of India Act, and even then my second argument. stands which is, as I said at the beginning, that it is not. imposing or authorising the imposition 'of any new tax. .
Now, Sir, with these two remarks I submit that this Council has not got anyjurisdietion to take this Bill into consideration. We are living under well-defined and well-regulated laws. Let the Government first of all point out or the )fember in charge of the Bill point out under which section of the Government of India Act or under which rules framed under the Govern ment of India Act he is bringing forward this Bill. This is a point of juris dietion, a legal and constitutional point, which I have raised, and I submit tha.t the House is entitled to a decision on this point. It is another point that. district boards will be put to trouble; We are not at this time concerned with the merits of the robbery which has been committed in various parts of the Punjab by various district boards. We are not concerned with that at alt. . First of all let us be convinced that we have got jurisdiction to con sider this Bill; and not waste our time.
Mr. Presideni : As the question: whether it is intra »iree or ultra flires ofthe Council to take this Bill into consideration: is of great importanea, I would like to have it discussed.
Mr.J. G. Beazley (Secretary, Transferred Departments) : Sir, my reply to tho point raised by the honourable member for Hoshiarpur is this .
Lala KeshQ Ram, Sekhri: Sir, there are other objections also to this Bill: Will it not be better to raise them even now?
Mr. President : Ifthere are more points than o~e- to be raised they may be.raised setiatim one after the otherand not simulteneously, ·
,[2aTH -N OVB, J 927. l'UNJkB 'LBOISLATlVIil .OQNCllL. 14,74
Sanction under clause (3) (a) of Section 80-A is the only sanction upon the strength of which the Government Member has come to' the Council. with this Bill. There is no other sanction, so far as I can seet
Lala Mohan Lal : May I know the nature of the sanction given· by the Government of India ?
Mr. J. G. Beazley : The sanction given by the Governor-General is as follows :- ·
!~ Governor-General grants sanction to Punjab District Beards Validating Bill re+· . ceived with yo~ letter (102, .Novelll.ber- filth,"
~~ Wberees it is necessary to remove doubts aa to the legality of certain taxes Imposed.. by certain dii,trict boards in the Punjab and whereas the previous sanction of the Governor-General has been obtained under clause (a) of sub-section (3) of section ·SO-.A of the Government of India Act, it is hereby enacted as fol· lows'':-
lrh\ J, G .. ••zley; Aa the saaetion of the Governor-General was ob· tamed for theintroduesion of this Bill, the question of whether the CollllQil had jurisdiction to consider the Bill must- presumably ha Ye boon considered by the Government of India before it gave the sanction. It is therefore not open to anybody in this House to go into that question now.
Mr. President: I shall be glad if the honourable member will quote his authority for the position that the sanction of the Governor-General, whether it is legal or illegal, is final and that the Council has no power to go, into the matter.
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Hlisain : So far as that point .. is coacemed the production of the previous sanction of the ..
Mr. President : Is that sufficient ? The Honourable Mian Sir FazJ..i .. Husain: I have not studied this·
matter, but there are two provisions to which I feel I may invite the at-· tention of the chair. One is sub-section (a) of section 80-A given at page 52, of the Business Manual. It is the general empowering clause empowering: the local legislature to legislate unless that power is taken away by subse .1quent clauses. As many of the members may not have the copy of the Manual I will read it :
"The local legislature of any province has power, subject to the provisions of this. Act, to make Iaws for the peace and good government of the territories for the· time being constituting that province."
That is the general empowering clause and the onus of proving that a particular legislation is outside the scope or power of the provincial legis lature naturally falls on the objector. Then there is the proviso at the· next page at the end of the section:
~· Provided that an Act or a provision of an Act made by a focal legislature, and subse- · quently assented to by the Governor-General in pursuance of this Act, shall not be deemed invalid by reasons only of its requiring the previous sanction of the Governor-General under this .Act."
This again has indirectly a bearing on the point. I think I may invite· the attention of the chair to this.
Mr. President: May I invite the attention of the Honourable Mem-· · ber to the preamble of the Bill ? Government has come to the Council with a particular sanction; can it fall back upon something else at this stage? The· preamble says :- ·
'I:UE PU~JAB DIS'IRIOl' BOARDS (TA:ll:·VALIDATl?iG) BILL, 14,75.,
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i.-Husain: · As to· the point mentioned by you, Sir, that in the preamble mention is made of sub-clause ,(a) of sub-section (3) o~ section 80-A, that would not preclude you from een -sidering other portions of section 80-A inasmuch as for the purpose of previous -sanction, this was the only section that was necessary.
Mr. J. G. Beazley: Sir, the point I was about to make is this. 'When this Government sends up a Bill for the sanction of the Government of India, the Government of India is the party interested to see that the pro vincial legislature does not overstep the bounds set upon it by the Govern ment of India Act. The Government of India agrees to the introduction
.0£ theBill, . Jt has not considered that it is ultra oires of the Punjab Legisla- tive Council. Otherwise it would not have given such sanction. . There fore it seems to me that the point raised now is entirely out of place and that it serves no purpose for members of this house, whom one would
.expect to be jealous of its privileges, to question whether the Bill is intra 'Vires. That is the first point I wish to mention. However if this is not to be granted, then I would turn again to sub-seetion (1) of section 80-A which gives us power to make any law without contravening the provisions of the following sub-seetions. If it is to be held that this is not a Bill imposing or authorising the imposition of any new tax because the tax is an old one and has been in force for several years, then sub-section (3) would .not apply at all and we can make a law under sub-section (1 ). If the Bill does come under sub-section (3) clause (a) then we have met the requirements of that
-sub-section and obtained the previous sanction of the Governor-General.
Mr. President : I wish to be en1ightened on this very important question and trust that the honourable members will help me. If I under
.stand the honourable member aright he maintains that the tax which was -originally imposed under the District Boards Act could be so imposed under ·· that Act and that, therefore, this validating Bill also can be taken into .consideration by this House. But if that tax could not be legally imposed, then ex-hypothesi the question is whether any legislation with regard to it can be undertaken by this Council without the express sanction of the Gover nor-General. The taxes which are exempted from such sanction are specified in Schedules I and II of the Scheduled Taxes Rules. May I ask the honour able member to refer to those schedules and say whether the tax in question is covered by them. If it is not, then the question is
-whetheeit can be imposed in any form by the local Council without the -previous sanction of the Governor-General. That is the question under -disoussion and I am afraid sub-section (1) of section 80-A does not
· help Government.
The Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon:. Sir, the law on the subject is quite clear that the tax that we are now imposing or rather autho rising the imposition does not come within the Scheduled Taxes. Ifit had been: one · of the Scheduled Taxes then the imposition of that tax under the District Boards Act would have been legal. (Vo~ces: No.). But aB it is
· not one of the Scheduled Taxes therefore the High Court has_ decided against us. Now the law is quite clear on the point. If it.is one of those.ta.xes
·· which are not scheduled then we can impose it with the legal sanction Qt ·the --Oovern<>r·General: In this case we 'havetaken the pr~vfo~ aanctio,n ofthe
[25TH Nova, 1927 PUNJAB LEG-ISLA.TIVE COlJNCIL. ~1476
~-·-,;--~---. - ..........----.-----. -------·
.C)
:TBil. PUNJAB DJS'J)llfOT B04BDS (TAX·VALIOATI~G) BILL, J4.77
<Governor General to introduce this Bill and on that 'V \a.ke our stand· that ··our action is entirely within the law. ·
M't. Pi-esiclent: The Honourable Minister for Lo:,a.l Self-Governm~nt· 'would have been right if the words "imposing or authorising the imposi . tion of any new tax' could cover the validating Bill relating to ta..~ -which were imposed, according to the judgment of the High Court, illegally and the rooovery of which · the proposed law is meant to prevent. The
· question is whether to prevent the rooovery of such taxes by persons who ihad paid them is the II imposition of a new tax." If it is~ then, the Bill · is quite in order.
· The Honourable Mian Sit Fazl•i-H11sai11: Sir, as the illuminating -diseusslon has proceeded, the issue is now being crystallised. The point I understand now is this : That at a particular time a tax was imposed which ought to have been imposed under section 80-A (8) (a), that is 60 'Say after obtaining the previous assent o! the Governor-General. Had the previous assent of the Governor-General been obtained, then the tax would have been perfectly legitimate. (A voice: Not even then.) Th&t is not what the decision says. The decision says tha.t such assent of · the Gov
-emoe-Geneeal baa not been obtained to the tax, therefore it is bad and there fore its recovery is not permissible. We must be clear about the facts because
~it is impossible to apply the law unless the facts are there. Is my ·.gtatement of the fact correct ? The statement of the fact is .•••••.•
Mr. Pteaident : A detailed statement was made by the mover of the Bill, Was it not sufficient ? · ·
· The Honourable Mian:Sil' Fazl·i-Huuin: Yes, it is also stated iin the objoolis and reasons. · Now the point is this. Can the Governor •
. -Oeneral · gije his a.ssent three years after the oecarrenee and validate ·an A.ct .? That is what it comes to. My submission is that under sub-sec
:tion (8) (4) the Governor-General's assent given subsequent to the event -does effect validation. Therefore what was illegal when that assent was -nos given, is legalised subsequently after the assent of the Governor-Genera}. As !l ~tter of !act, .IM! Y?U, Sir, ~ow much more than most of us, a validating legislation has its ongm m the DUstakes of Governments.
If the Governments do no~ make mistakes,· validation legislation would .not come into being. With your permission, I will read now section ·80-A {8) :-
" The]looal Ieglsleture of any province nu.y noe, without the previous sa.Dction of the Governor-General, llla.ke or ta.ke into considera.tion any law-
(a) inqlosing or authorising the imposition of any new ta.~ .•••• " . That was not now being imposed. In the present case it was imoosed in
-1924, We are now asking that the tax which was impoaed in 19:H without the ,assent of the Governor-General was bad, and that disqualification havine1 been :Temo'\fed from the way, we want. t.o proceed with the Bill. It will have :rett.ospootive · effect when it is passed. Of course, as you are aware a fair .amount of the time of the Parliament is occupied, by no means a sm1II portion of it, in validating a great many irregularities that the Cabinet
-or other authorities have committed in the mltter oT divorce law, for in;it&nce ·the Empire divorce law, · validating divorce decrees, was passed. It ~ liarctly neoeasary to quote · to you other instances in parliam3n~a.ry legislati~ n. · ·
.; J~ g~~le Uali~ E~«.i , 1-•,. NMn:. J~t. <>ne ,point._: I wish to submit abo~ the word new on w}ucll you emphasise sc mnca., illhe words qf the sub-section are :
"il11~~fd~e~:t~~ t~e Ul!Pp.sition pf ,ny pew tax unless the tax ~ a. t~~
w~ are µ:ying-to impose this tax PY means pf this Bill frqm the dat.e "AA+i, it -w,as origin.ally imposed. .IU4is Bill is pas$ed, then tho tax will be new. so far adhe cl,ate ofits imposition is JJp11,,wrµed. .qn t~e date when tt was impp~e.d, it wa.s new, but if'youy~li~il:te tlµlJlllp<;>sition from that date to-~y we'are· thereby validating 'the imposition. of a new. tax: . . .
. M:r! fifre§ij~t: '1!9e Jl!'\'>Y~. ij,t the !}pd qfclit.t,!W (~), .~tioil ~-A,. f.\B11 'h~ .\moo 1t~~rre}i to ,a.p~ r~µ~d upon by some qf.@:I qc~~R~~Js . Qf · tpe Trea.sury Benches. I JVish, to mp.)e it cJe~r once for all ihat *at 1tm~· ~:s ab~qJµ.tely no ', b~af-4.lg p.poµ. the ease ppw p~for~ · the House. Ifap.y A.pt re~uiri~ t~ (fqy()rnQr-q.en,eral's ~i;t~t,j.on ~er.a ,P~~tJt:l<t by ~µis. Qq~nqil ~J1s:ntt~,s1 .. wh .. !lapcwon, . t~µ. un,d.er the proviso the abs~pce of JMt SA,D_C:tmn ll"9Uld n9t irivalfrJ:::i.te tp.~ Act. B:ut t,h?,t is not ,t~,~~~ here, .~nµ ti}~ p,ro~·jiW Ms no aRpJtcatjop. . .
· . · ~s ;1,i~g~rjl;s tµ.e contention that this Council can take .into consideration ~JJ. , y _a.lj~{!<tiirg Bill . p~caut,e the Go,;~rnor~~eneral has ~i:011 sanction u~er .ela~e !fl) (a), I thm;k the words imposing or authorising the im-. p6sition ,of,a:,;iy :p.,ew J;ix" do not and cannot include and cover the vali-· (J~ti1.m 9f a tax illegally imposed and cp1Je~te~ !?.&v~al !t~r,s n?· It was," open, no doubt, to the Governor-General to auth~J~e:tlµs Q9µqCJ1l to con-' sider . and pass a ne;w Act .for t4e ifPp~it~QP ~f ;,,µch tax in f~tgr~, but v&lidati?n.for !he.J?ast, isnoteI t~in~, coverpd·by t4e la.n~~ge !>f_ci.~u.~~:;{~) {u}. ·ED;gbsh ~s not my in~t~ t?r:~e. ~her~ .are ffi~PY .EpgJ1.shi;q,1Jl} ,llil ~s House. I h9pp they · will help me m .~t,erpretmg tt;te l~:w.. I fpr Qilb'® npt think i'?at . ':i~position ~: authoriJy ,~?!. ~~~ ,~fjtictn of fl 1tmv tax' (lovers the valrd~ hon ot a t.a?C wp.1~!1 W~S r!JegtJlly ~_pp~ad and. f~C9Y~f1i'd. some ye.ars afso 1pd .fP_r v~li~ati:qg wqicll a meas~~e isiptr9,ducw t,h~fJay'. Bef~re .I make up ip.y .mind fin:ally, I.s~-~!l we~coipepgptfrom apy flJ.7-Jlrt()r, e.spooiaHy'hom the quarter -~~here thi:ire IS ~.o -~)lqh )ight (k~11gnt,er). . .. ,
The. ~~~µr..,~i,J~ '.M~Ii,~·fir.~i lb~J,N~~.: .. Probably you pave, not ·corisHlered the p91nt .tii.at .I have JUSt _!10\V ~'bm1tt{.ld. .
Mr. President : I have carefully considered it. I am anxious to learn- · I wish I could persuade rr1yself to a.gr()e with the Honourable Member's view· However, I haye .an ~men mmd and shall patiently hear arguments of both sitfo~. I have placed my £foubts before the House. I wish to have. t.hr.p1 4<kiro(l, .~otl1.:l.t I.may be able to maim.up my minfl for or agaim:t the·
v'ii.'Mitv oi tlieohj~ctiou. . · · ·· · .. ; .. ; , ...... , .. ' - .
' . '.f~e '·~"'our,~le Sir .Gepffr!'Y d.e~~n~~~rent:y : ! ~eg to S~!{gest for your· consideration that the PO}llt m Vl(lW wfnch· :fOU, Su, •pt~t fr.om 1:h~ .. cll1ir jm,t. now would a2ply to ~ny va~Jda~ing Bill. r.t Js. n9t ox,Jy ~ 't~:x,'. but any illegal ·act ~o.uld .reqmre val¥at1on. '.I!h,at 1s, 1t .,vouhf amQ4nt t<j .thiJ.1,1 that iweh·wit,h f,he;,sanction of the Governor~Gcnoral jp ~()~Ilc~It,o.aJly no io·nl ll\~i~tat:nro ·· can pass nl'ly· ~ill valii;hi.ti~ .a1iy il_legal aqt_t.l_rn.t·i,~11 h-icn . doll'-" . in the pn.st. ·I am not sure that it is tho' interitiori of. th~. ~'l-~~fmmt . .:of 1mfo Act to oxclml<:" that power frorn·Jli~ looa..i' ~~l~;t~i~.:~ . .
[2PTll Novn. 1927-
THE PUNJAB DISTRICT BOARDS (TAX•VALIDA'rING) 13ILL. l-t7fi
:~r.· "·.V'-J;,~!.~, (Chief Secretary) :. _Sir, ·I under~tand·that JOU are 1I1clll!-OO to bo1tl th.at clause (a) of su b-section 8 of section 80-A pf- the GQv~rnment of India Act cannot be applied, If this sub-clause cannot' be' apylied aaj if no · other sub-clauses of su b-seetion 3 apply, . then it· wquld appear that as already argued by my honourable friend Mr. Beazley, under sub-section (1) of section 80-A of the Act, the local legislature has ftvl powE?r to jµt_ro_tfi:rne this Bill, 'Ihe only restrictions on · the power of this Council are those imposed under sub-section (8). Jf ypµ .hold, Sir, that tl?-erejs p.9thjng in. sub-section (3) which applies to the present cir~m~~µces, tlwn . there .wUl . be no restriction on the power . of . t;his Council to· co,:1>id.er: ~~- . . .
,I&. Pusideat: Does the honourable member meap to sa.r .,tba.-P ii sub-clause (8) does not cover the case, ,then_ eqb,d~se (1) .µ:i11o~.,t P.9~ ~2 . . . . ..
. l,f.r. ff. ,,'.~E.~tf..011: If there is no restriction. Mt-. iPr-eaideat: The tax in question could not be imposed ,with®~
tho previous sanction of the. Governor-General. ·
.M(. Mt rJ• ~ersq:p: You ho]~ th,at clause (a.) !i~es. not· a1wty~ H, tfw re~t-nctu>I). }n ~4,!J,l. d~,;i.se do~s not apply, whfl.t r,,estn~tJ.oµs woul_d. qiinfy ? . ---. . - . . . . . . . ..
Mr. JPx~eat: 'JJbe WQ!'4s 'spjij~pt tp .t~e p:i,,oJ<lsiQ~§ .Qf ~4~ 1W,L', m -JJla.u.sa (1) _;i,ni ·.V.~!W inlP~~nt. J ..tb~, ·~e ®PAW: i~,;I t}m ·-.,1~~ sµbj.oot to thl),QtQi)t.,prqvj~ioµsqf l4!3J.lg-:~PY;t~nt_~t.Iµw~.Apt,~~~i J-~: pendantly qf ~mm!~ .. , · ·
.. lfF• JI· -:,,. J~1gn : Wh!it otµe,r provisions 'l
. ,J4r. l'AA .. t: J?l~ ,r~w ~mQ»s .Qt~rs to .cw.,u~g .(a.} ,and tho Scheduled ·Taxes Rules made under sub-olause (a). _
. . Mr~.A.f· ·,.:.E~,,r,~n :_I play again urge t~at the restrio~ioris on ;_legis- 1at1ori 'by this Council ate imposed by sub-section (S). of section .20-A! It· th1s Bill is subject to none of the restrictions under that sub-section, .how, can tpe :co~µcil not .have power to take it into considaratiion2
0Mr. Presida.t : A.El sub-See • .(3) uf $~tion SO-:! js Jt p19rjsion of the Government of India Act, it cannot be taken to be as expunged from it when we ~re tea.ding and interpreting clause. (1) of twi seotion..?
J\f.r,·--~-· J!.· ,E~,J,'.lfOD : Does clause (3) (a) apply or not ? :Mr~ j>r~n(; V clause .(p) (a) /:tpplies, .. then clause (I) doo.s not ·
help. Mt. H. :W~ Em.uspn: If (3) (a) does not apply, wl;la.t r~~tr,iQtiqp is.
there? .. . · · · · · - -
,,~~.J~ p~ !,e;J~~y: _If it does apply, then we have the. san<1tion ;_q.f' the GoveFnor~Genehtl.' If -it does not apply, then we tely on ,sub~saQ~ (1 ).
Mr. Presideat :·: •Jitmt 1is !t·.l lit\J, the case is n~t .<l')V.,Etiei:l ~y tiltY'.~hel": clause; T <f ,thu_~ ·wa,ityOJ. mAan ? . . . , . . .. • ~~"..,·, ,e.fl!_~·,~w-~J";;,r • • t•·, "!•~--~~ !, • • ~ ~-·-: • ' ",·•.;-,,_,#' 1 '!'~-~·f
•. ,&¥.f:t•es:, .. I .}:.~.· , , . ..-. CJ2 •
!' The local legislature of any province has power, subject to the provisions of thi8 Aot, to make l&wa for the peaoe and good government of the territories for th9 tim.e being constituting tha.t province."
With regard to that, I submit that it is wholly irrelevant to apply this traction. (..4 voice·: Why ?) Let me state my case. Please listen to my reasons, The exact words used are ' for the peace and good Government of ihe territories for the time being constituting that 'province.' What is the danger to the peace and good government of the province by refunding the amount which the district Boards have got ? Peace a.nd good Govern ment means the maintenance of law and order. 'Ilhe Aots covered by these words are acts like the Indian Penal Code and the Criminal Procedure · Code. It is only Acts of like nature that are contemplated in this section, not the imposition of taxes. '.Dhat is what is meant and what an ordinary man who has studied English up to the eighth standard. will understand to be the meaning of the· words ' peace and good government.' · You cannot possibly raise new taxes under this clause. '.Ilhis clause, as I have submitted, relates to Acts, such as the Indian Penal Code, the Criminal Procedure Code, and other Acts relating to the Administration of law and justice and Acts of the eme kind. Let us accept the meaning whioh the Government members· want to give to this clause. Let us accept this. But with what reasoning will they take away these few words' subject to the provisions of this Act'? Whey do not want to take away these words either .. _']hen. there are two -other provisions which follow ; and to which the first clause is subject :-
~· The local Jegie)&tllre ol any province n:1a.y, subject to the provisions ol the sub. eection next following, repeal or alter as to tha.t province any law. , . , ••
11hey do ·not come under that. They do not rely upon that clause at all. Then, on what clause do they rely .? 'J.!hey rely on clause (8) which .t!a.ys :---:-
" The Ioeal legislature of any province niay not, without. the previ01l8 sanction of the · Governor·Genen,J make or take iflttJ co•~lion any la.w: impoaing or authoris•
ing the impoaition of any new ts.x anless the ts.x k a tax soh&daled a.a eu.mpted from this provision by rules made under this Act."
I pointed out in the very first instance that it is only a.n imposition -of a. new tax upon the province. If it does not come under this sub-section, :then under what law do you come? [A voice: section (1) ]. You cannot come under that section for the reason, it is not a law for the peace and good government of the province. When there are specific clauses relating . to :ta.xes. can you say that we come under clause (1) which relates to peace ;6Jld good government. So far as taxes are concerned, they are all covered ty sub-clauses (2) and (8). Now, there are two kinds of t.a.xes, firstly those -which are within the province of the provincial legislature to levy and ;thos& are the taxes which a.re scheduled.
·Mr. J. G. Beuley : Where is that argument ? . - · Padit Noak Ct.and : You have not carefully studied the Act it
~ while I have (Laughter). 'fhe Government of India Act empowerS'
runs: ,.
. j,udit Nanak Chanel': Sir, I never thought that words which are so clear~ so unambiguous and so definite can bear any two meanings a.n<i. that "they can be interpreted in the manner in which different members .of the Government want them to be interpreted. For their benefit and for tbe benefit of the House, I once more wish to read the section. '.Tihe section
(25TH Nl>VR. 1927. PUNJAB LBGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1480 •
P""""""-- -····· ·.·• ." '! ··:·-.-~--
lrlIE ,PtJN.JAB DISTRICT Bo.mos (TAx·VALIDATnm) BILL, 1481
the Government of India to make certain rules. Those rules are made under section 45. The taxes which are covered by the two schedules are within the. province of the local legislature. The local legislature need not ask the Government of India for sanctions, if it wants to impose. any taxes which are covered by these two schedules. Even if this tax • had found place in those two schedules, the levying 0£ this tax by the district board; ip8'> facto, would not have been legal. This was the impression of my honourable· friend the Minister for Local Self-Government. There also he is wrong. Because district boards derive certain powers from the Government : Certain powers are delegated to the district boards for levying certain tax. Even if the provincial legislature were to impose a tax, the district board by that very fact will not be able to impose that tax.
Chaudhri Zafrullah Khan : Is the honourable member raising: a new point, or is he arguing on the old point ? .
Pandit Nanak Chand: So far as the power of levying taxes is con cerned, clauses 2 and 3 are exhaustive. They define what are those taxes which could be levied by provincial Governments, and provincial Govern· meats delegate certain powers to municipalities or district boards. They have to pass certain Acts for the levying of those taxes. . . _' ..
'Ihe fact that they are scheduled by the local Government willnot be· sufficient to impose that tax on the Punjab ; not at all. The Council, shall have to pass an Act imposing one of those taxes in order to make · that tax legal. Now that has not been done at all. No Act has been passed by the Punjab Legislative Council imposing the new tax on the provinceof .the Punjab, and therefore, the Government could not possibly delegate its rowers to the district boards. No amendment of the District Boards Acthas been sought for by the Government for the imposition of a tax of this kind. Therefore, so far as the argument that it is one of the taxes which are named in the schedule and the district boards would have constitutional and legal right of imposing that tax is concerned, that argument falls to, the ground entirely. Leaving aside that point, there are certain other taxes which can be imposed but with the sanction of the Governor-General. in Council and those are new taxes and I have already submittedJhat it. is not an imposition of a new tax by means of another enactment. There was another reason which I had advanced and that was that it is an income tax covered by the Income-Tax Act. No reply has been given to that argu ment. I seek a reply to that. It is in the nature of an income tax and there ought to be an amendment of that Act. Nothing of the kind has been done. These are the various grounds that I put forward. Clauses (2) and (3) of Section 80-A are exhaustive. Yon cannot rely on the first clause and say that the validating Bill is for the maintenance of peace and good govern ment.'
Mr. President : There is one more point lurking in my mind on which the lawyer members of the House may throw some light. Suppose this tax was never imposed in the Punjab ; suppose its legality or illegality were unknown to us ; suppose the Punjab Legislativs Council were to in· troduce to-day a Bill to impose that tax ; will it be competent to do sowith out the previous sanction of the Governor-Genera.I ? I think sub-section (1) of section 80·A will not help the Government in. th~t case and. it will have to fall, back on sub-section (3), which, I am inclln~d 'to hold, a&l; nof; cover the case ola Y~lidating Act. ., ,,:,.,.,.'
• · .. , _;.: • ..' ' ; • i ,_ i 1/.' ." ~!
·I 1
. · The Honou.-able Mr .. Manohar Lal . (Minister for Education) : ,;$e!ore y9u entirely hold tµat section so-A (8) (a) does not apply,.mar} be permitted to make a few submissions ? _ A certain tax was sought to be imposed and as a matter of fact did get imposed by a particular section under t_he Distric.t Boards Act.. the Hisn_ Court has now _declared· that t.~at tax -was illegal and ultra dres and it stands virtually blotted out. What then.is tl;te present position? Tlie present position created by the judgment of the High·Conrt is that the· money taken from foe people under t:fuit ad mitted exercise· ol illegal act has not been really taken ; it musf go hack. aiiil ·if it is to go back, no tax does stand, ai a· matter of fact, imposed. There Is no tax and what the present Bflf seeks-leaving aside the words 'vali ·.aating ' and so· on because they are merely words for the sake of con venience=-wha t the Punjab Government now seeks for the first time is that 'from' a particular year a given tax be imposed. l personally fail to see and I have been trying to think hard; in what sense we would be doing, violence to language by this interpretation. A new tax is not necessarily :one which start.s its burden on the people from to-day .. That is not the meaning of a new tax as I understand it. It is open to the Government to say, "look here, people who have been enjoying the protection of the Government shall be subject to a particular burden and that burden shan start from a day 15 or 20 or 30 years anterior to the time when the Gov ~n~ent is seeking to enter on the projected piece of legislation." Thal; is the position of the Government. We are to-day coming forward to im pose a tax which is to have its effect from a particular date 3 or 4 years back, a. tax which has not hitherto existed. An attempt was made to impose that tax before, but the High Court has clean blotted it out and the Govern· ment says 'we are now anxious to have that tax and now for the first time.'
Mr. President: }fay I ask the last speaker whether the prohibition to recover from or non-liability to refund by local bodies is exactly the same thing as " imposition or authorising the imposition of a new tax" ?
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: I do. I go the whole 0£ that length. Now it is represented that Government have robbed the people of its money and the money is the people's money under that order of the High Court ; it is not the Government's money. It would become Govern ment's money if this Bill is passed by this Council and it becomes an Act. It is when it becomes an Act, if it becomes an Act, that it would enable the Government to impose that burden for the first time, quite a real burden 'on tlie people. The money is to-day the people's money and they can have it and the High Court has decreed so.
Mr. President: Does not the word 'imposition ' imply assessment and collection ? The question we are considering is whether the district _boards should be protected from being legally sued to refund certain taxes which. were imposed and collected by them illegally. This, in a nutshell, is the proposition under consideration.
The Honourable Mr. Manohar Lal: As I said I can only approach the word ' imposition' as I understand it and I see no difficulty in applying that word to the situation as it stands created at the present time because it will be by virtue of this Bill when it is passed into law that it will be pos •ble for the first time for the Government to place that burden on the people
[25TH N OVR. 1927. .PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIT,. 1482
. ;.;
Mr. President: Will the Honourable Dr. Gokul Chand Narang s
,.throw some light on the point ? Dr. Gokul Chand Narang: As my honourable friend, Chandhri
:Zafrullah Khan wishes to speak, I should like to speak after him.
Cbaudbri Zafrullab Khan [Sialkot (Muhammadan) Rural: Sir, ,e;g you have been kind enough to call on members of this House to throw -some light on the interpretation of. the section, I have been encouraged ;fo offer my humble opinion on it. Supposing we first concentrate our atten-
... - -~ - The Honourable Mr. M-anohar Lal: If 11,ny tax has not yet been
'imposed, it will be for you and for those who may interpret the sections '.to say whether under this Act it will be possible for the district boards .to realise those arrears. Those are matters of merely interpreting th~ tQ~! They have nothing to do with the question whether the present Bill is i~ra
.vires or ultra »ires. The question at the present stage is purely one of fol'• ma;lity, whether we have satisfied certain formalities or not in placing this Bill before the House. Personally I say I am perfectly satisfied that thiif Bill satisfies every single particular required according to section BO·A (S)
,(a) as I understand it. But if it does not, then as Messrs. Beasley _ .an~ 'Emerson have forcibly argued, you are to look at the rest' of the section, It is no use saying that when one reads section 80~A (1) one has to read it subject to sub-section (3) (a) because the latter according to the reasoning of the other side is entirely non-existent. We have argued that it does apply. I1 it applies then the Government stands on firm ground ; if it does not apply then you cannot say that other sub-section does not apply ; you cannot say
.that this sub-section which does not apply is going to control, in some manner
.unknown to logic what is given in sub-section SO·A (1). That is a thing which passes my comprehension. That is a thing which is absolutely un .. .intelligible to me. If (3) (a) does not apply then the Government comes in under its plenary powers to pass such legislation as the section authorises
,jt to do that is to make laws for the peace and good Government of the province. Now, my learned friend, Mr. Nanak Chand, might think that the phrase ' good· government ' should be construed in a restricted sense. But, Sir, 'good government' is a very comprehension term and it oer-
·tainly requires great courage to curtail the meaning of that large te~ ·which has been very advisedly used there for giving the necessary plenary powers to any local Government to enforce its sanctions and whatever
.it considers proper for the good of the people.
•
'I'~lfPUNJAB DiistiuCT' BOAltrls' (TXX·V"-AMDA~lNJ) BILL, hsi ·which it unduly tried to place in the past as the High Court bas declared, l see no difficulty myself, Others may view it differently. But I see no -':(l1ffioulty in oolling this the imposition oh new tax. I go th€ whole of that length ail.d'if tbO:t is so, as undoubtedly it is so, I :see' no objection to tb'e .Iegislation proceeding, because the Government of India has given us the , necessary sanction.
Mr. President: ~fay I ask one- more question ? Supposing some · district boards have yep some arr,ears of the ha&iayaMax to recover. Can :they recover those arrears under the validating Act if it becomes law ?
.1
4 l'.)I.
If those subsequent provisions c'.o not cover this action, then it. falls within the general powers conferred upon this. legislature under sub-clause (1) and no previous sanction
is necessary at all, Whether you call it the imposition of a tax or the validation of a, tax or anything else you like, this legislature has power to do whatever it likes in the way of legislation for the peace .. and good government of the province. Certain things it is not em powei·ed to do. Does my honourable friend contend that what is pro-· posed to be done now is one of those things which the local legislature is expressly prohibited from doing unless it obtains sanction ? If it is one of: those things, then the answer is that the sanction has been obtained. If it ii» not one of those things, then no sanction is necessary.
There is another point of view which I wish to submit to you for your consideration in this connection. You have put it to the House that mem-. bers might help you to decide whether this is an imposition of a tax or not. You seem to incline to the view that if this is an imposition of a tax, then previous sanction having been obtained the matter is clear. If it is not an imposition of a tax, then what iR it ? A tax was levied or sought to be levied.. it was levied upon the public, it has been collected, its proceeds have been utilised and now we discover that the action of the district boards was. illegal. An illegal recovery has been made. Government finds that that wilt place certain district boards in a very awkward position. I will put the matter very plainly. Government discovers that as a result of the judgment. of the High Court numberless persons may bring actions against district, boards to recover moneys from those district boards illegally recovered by, them from such persons. Governrcent therelore proposes to give a kind ot:
i~on. on the :first clause of the section and supposing for a momellt tha.t th&> section stood at that only and bad enacted nothing further, what would: be the position ? It eaye :
!'The local Iegiela ture of II ny province ha11 power, subject to the[ provisions of thia Act,. to make lawa for the Jeace end gcod goHnin:ent of the terrjtcrk s kr tle t ime being conetituting that province."
If there were no further sub-sections, no further restrictions on the powers of a local legislature to impose a tax, my submission is that it could impose taxes under this clause and because it could impose a tax under its. general powers, the legislature has gone on further to restrict that power of imposition of taxes under the subsequent sub-sections and baa permitted it to impose certain taxes with the previous consent of the Governor-General. So far as the present question is concerned, whether it is imposing a tax 011· validating, the impcsiticn of a tax the section confers power on the local' legislature both to impose taxes and to validate the imposition of taxes. [1be legislature has gone further and has put certain restrictions on the power· of the legislature with regard to taxes and in my humble opinion, there will; be no escape frcm the position that either the action now proposed to be taken is an action of the sort which is sought to be prevented by those sub-sections unless the previous sanction of the Governor-General has been. obtained or it is an action of the sort which does not fall within those pro~. visions:
"l'UNJA'B LEGlSL,U'IVE COV~ClL, YB4 [<Jhaudhri. Zafrollah Khan.]
~---~~---. ------ .·-
'protectlon to these district boards by an executive Act. By this Aot what-. it purports to do is this : it says that certain persons who under the ordinary law would have a cause of action against certain district boards to recover certain sums of money shall not have that cause of action. This is more or less an Act in the form of an Indemnity Aot. As has been put by the. Honourable Minister for Education this is not a legal tax, Certain money was recovered by certain district boards in the form of a tax. Now it is. held that it was no tax and that the money is liable to be refunded. Certain. persons are entitled to bring snits to claim that money. This Act says that they shall not have any legal cause of action to maintain such suits. Call that tyranny, call that robbery, call it whatever you like, but in that case it will not be an imposition of a tax but merely an Act declaring that certain causes . of action would not come into existence or would no longer exist. For ins tance, supposing there were disturbances and in suppressing those dis turbances Government had employed its military force, and in the employ ment of that force certain kind of property had been requisitioned, confis- cated, or taken away from the subjects and utilised for the purposes of the army under no kind of legal sanction. In that instance also those persons from whom that property was taken away under no legal sanction would .. have the right to institute suits in the civil courts for the recovery of that. property. That would be a similar case. Government then proposes to pass a Bill saying that no person shall have any cause of action in respect of any losses that he might have incurred or any property taken away from him under those circumstances. Would you call that an imposition of a tax '!' This money has been recovered under something which had no legal sanction at all. It, was not a tax, it was robbery as has been described by my friend~ Pandit Nanak Chand. A robbery has already b~n committed by the local bodies. The local Government. says, we propose to pass a Bill to the effect that persons who have been robbed in this manner shall have no cause of;' action in the civil courts. That would not be the imposition of a tax and therefore no previous sanction would be necessary. But there is no es-. cape from the position that if it is the imposition of a tax, there is the previous sanction. If it is not, then it falls within caluse (1) which has been quoted; and there would be no objection to the entertainment of this Bill by this. House.
Mr. President : May I inivite the attention of the honourable members" to the Government of India Devolution Rules ? They may refer to rule 8': and also to item (16) in the schedule I to rule 3. '•Civil law, including laws , regarding suits, property, civil rights and liabilities, and civil procedure?" is excluded from the jursidiction of tho local legislatures. I have already invited the attention of the honourable members to rules under clause (3) (a) of S. 80-A and to the two schedules at the end of those rules.. They are· reproduced on pages 61-62 of our Business Manual. In those schedules are specified the taxes about which the provincial legislatures can. legislate. How can we get over these difficulties ?
Lala Kesho Ram, Sekhri: Sir, while discussing this point, the honour •. able members might also refer to Schedule II {l) (A) and (B) and also, to the Government of India Local Legislature (Previous Sanction) Rules; They will find it clearly laid down that it 1s not within the sanction of the Governor-General.
!11"1!1 PUNJAB DiS'l'RICT .BOARDS (ll'AX·VALJD.4TJNG) .BlLL,
_ _J
• Diwan Bahadur Raja Nax-endra .Nath: The phraseology defining the powers of the two legislatures in the two Acts bears great analogy and is similar. The phrase under which this Bill has been brought does not in clude financial expediency. ' Good government ' may be interpreted in just
-the opposite wa,y and the requirements of a good government may be that illegal recoveries made by Government should be refunded. Good Govern mezit does not necessarily moan that financial expediency should be taken into
-consideration, and that monev which has been unlawfullv recovered from persons who are not liable to the tax should not be refund~d to them. I do not think that the powers of the local legislature even under the present Act
.sre so wide as to justify the passing of a validating Act. Ignoring the past .history and ignoring the powers of legislation which were invested by the old Act in the Imperial legislature, ignoring that altogether I find that in the present Act the powers given to the Indian legislature are wider and morn
-comprehsnsive than the powers given to the local legislature, and a validating Act does not clearly come within the powers of a local legislature. It can
-only be passed by the Imperial legislature. That is all that I wanted to say.
Dr. Gokul Chand Narang [North-West 'I'owns (Non-Muhammadan); Urban] : Sir, I think before we come to the absolutely legal point it is neces sary to explain what the High Court has really decided which has led to all
·--this trouble. It was within the last half anhour or so that I had the oppor· ~4unity of going through the judgment of the High Court on this point and .tliough unfortunately I could not take a,vay the judgment from the High
· .: Mr. President : Rules framed under Section · SOA (8) (b) have no 'bearing on the question now before the House.
Diwait Bahadur Raja Narendra Nath [Punjab Land-hoid~rs (Gene :ral)] : Sir, I am not a lawyar and · therefore not well versed in the interpre tation of statutes, but I think that you and the Council will be prepared to
"give- ai hell.ring to the commonsense view of a. Iaymsn. I want to draw your attention to the phraseology of section 80-A which defines the fogislativ(I powilni of Local Government and to compare it with section 65 (1) (a) which
-defines the powers of Indian legislature so far as the power of making laws is concerned. The power of local Government in making laws is restricted. lt can- make laws for " the peace and good government " of the territories
. for the time being constituting the province. Section 65 says·:- " The In~ian I egislature has power. to make' laws for all persons, for all courts, and for all places and things, within British India." It seems to me, Sir, that-~ validating Act does not come within the province of a local legislature." We have an example in tM pa.st history of the province itself or for the u1atter of that in.the past history of the- Indian legislature. I am replying to the' last point raised by the honourable the last speaker. The validating Act with respect to Martial Law which was introduced in the Punjab and only within
. specified territorial limits of this province was passed by the· Government ot India and· not by the local Government. -
Mr. Preiident: Order, Order. I may inform the honourable members _ -of the House that while weare dealing with a Bill which has been introduced
·under tho Government of India Act of 1919, the measure to which the honourable member has referred was dealt with under a previous Govern ment of India Act.
.[25TH Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE C0U:SCIL.
r ··········-···---····· -·-· i
<Court file, I remember sufficient details of it to throw some light upon what the High Court has decided in connection with this n:iatter. The ques•
, tion which· had arisen between the District Board of Sialkot and certain -· professional people in that district Was :"'o/hether agraded tax called the haisi ,yat tax could be levied upon them. What had been done was that the tax which was imposed upon certain pleaders and other prof essional people _was regulated by their incomes. It was not a flat rate tax, and the learnedand Honourable Judges of the High Court, a division bench consisting of Mr. Justice Addison and Mr. Justice Coldstream decided that it was perfectly within the rights of the district board to impose a flat rate tax without :~aking any distinction between one person and another on the ground of mcome.
Thoy nood choose a certain class of persons and impose some flat ratiftax upon them. For instance if a district board empowered to levy a tax np-on animals proceeds to levy tho tax according to income of the owner of~ .animals, tha.t "'ouid be transgressing the law. But if it levied flat rate taxes simply on the ground that such and such a person possessed such and such an animal there would be no illegality. 'Ilhereiora the learned Judges decided that as this tax imposed by the District Board of Sialkot on cer tain professional people was a graded one it fell within the definition of in'·
· come-tax, arid a second income-tax could not be imposed by the dhltiiet boa.1'd,_or even b:t .the legislature of. this province .. That is what the learned
.. Jucfges of tire High Court have decided. I thought it necessary to lay before this House wh'li.t the High Court had decided so that honourable members may be clear as to what actually led to the present Bill which is now being ·u:rged before this. House. Now, the question is whether this· validating Bill can he' entertained by this House. The facts which have been brought out in the' course of the' debate and by the High Court judgment are that a
-certsin a;mbunt of money has been already collected from certain number of . persons by the District Board of Sialkot and might have similarly been col .lected by some other district boards in the province. It cannot therefore be said, as 1 read the law, that this Bill attempts to impose any new tax upon the people. It is really guarding against certain claims which the people -who have already paid those taxes might bring against the .Government. What this BiU aims at doing is to prevent the institution of certain claims for
.the refund of the tax which certain people have already paid to certain dis . trict boards. In that sense it cannot be said that the Bill is imposing or seeks to impose a new tax, and therefore, I find it very difficult, I regret, to agree with the Honourable Minister for Education when he says that it is
. in fact the imposition of a new tax, because he says that the money which the -district boards have already collected illegally is not their money unless this Bill is passed into an Act and is enforced in this province. It will be
·then and then only that this money will become Government money and in .that sense, if I understand him rightly, this Bill seeks to impose a new tax. But my submission is that it is really straining the point too much to say that the money which you have already collected you are seeking to· impose. We are familiar with certain fictions in law, but I do not know of any fiction of law which would cover. this pro· position ~ch the Honourable Minister for Education urges. It ia,
..certainly n&'t an imposition of a new tax .. I do not know whether :\'.ft. Nanak
,1487 ' .... - THE PUNJAB DISTRICT BOARDS (TAX·VALIDATINO) BILL, ·~ . ,.. • .. · . ~ ~, ~ , ' ~ .
----.-------~--- -- --
Now, let us see whether it comes within the definition of imposition of a new tax. I have already submitted that it does not. But let us assume for the sake of argument that it does. If it is an imposition of a new tax, the question is what is the nature of that tax. The Honourable Minister for Education was-I do not know, he might have had good reasons for being so-shy to describe this tax by its proper name. It is, not an ordinary assessment. It is, as has been held by the High Court, a tax in tbe nature of an income-tax, These are the very words used in· the judgment of the division bench delivered on the 31st October this year. Itis on that account that they say that this tax imposed by the District Board of Sialkot cannot be recovered and so is illegal. If it is an income-tax certainly .all the members of this House combined with all the MinistetB and the Members of the Executive Council cannot impose any income-tax as such upon any of His Majesty's subjects in this province. Income-tax is ll()t a. provincial subject. It is a central subject and it is only the eentral legislature that can impose an income-tax: My submission therefore is that eXe.ri the sa:o.cti~n _of the Governor 'General will not empower \his Council to p~ss ~ };)W to ~mpo~e such a tax. · .. · ·. · · ' , ' ' ... - ·· ... - . . .-. . ' ,. ;·~. . '
[Dr. Gokul Cha.nd Narang.]
Chand pointed it out and in what form he put it. It is really legalising tllli illegal Act and in that sense, and this is very important for the House to· consider, it interferes with the civil rights and liabilities of His Majesty's. subjects. The case is just like the case of a debt which is being wrongly realised by a creditor, or a debt which has been realised in excess of what was actually due. That the money has been actually realised by Government does not make any difference. If in place of Government it was. I, you or anybody else, certainly the rights of persons who claim refund of money which has been wrongly taken by you, me or any other person, could not be taken away by any legislation that this legislature might adopt .
. ll'he mere fact that the Government has realised this money would make no difference. My honourable friend Mr. Zafrullah Khan made a very sane remark, as I thought, then, when he said that it was really trying to take away certain causes of action. It is really trying to take away certain causes of· action which those people who had already paid those taxes possess under the late ruling of the High Court. -Whether it is in the power of this legislature to destroy those causes of action is the real question and my submission is that no provision of the Government of India Act, as I have been able to see, empowers either the Government of this province or the legislature of this. province to take away the people's causes of action and rights of suit against the Government or any private individual. Money, it is admitted, has been realised illegally. It means that the people are entitled to a refund of that money and what is being sought now is to prevent the people from claiming refund. In other words causes of action are being sought to be destroyed. Rights of people are being taken away to institute suits to get back the money which has been taken from them by mistake, I won't say by fraud or any such thing. That is, I submit, is beyond the jurisdiction of this Council and the powers of the local Government. I would therefore submit that this proposed enactment is ultra vires of the Government and of this Council.
[25TH N OVR, 1921 .. PUNJAB LBGIBLATIVE OOUNOIL. 1488
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Mr. President: Does the Honourable Member mean that there are ,c_erta.in eubjeots regarding which e. local legislature cannot pass a law even with the sanction of the Governor-General ?
Dr. Gokul Chand, Naranr: That is exactly what I mean, Even toe sanction of the Governor General in Council cannot empower 'this Honse to impose a tax which is taken away from the jurisdiction of this legislature by a superior authority, namely the Parliament, The Govern ment of India Act is superior to the Government of India and the Govern .ment of India is bound by its provisions. Therefore even if any sanction :is given by the Governor General to impose this ta.x, that sanction is ultra ,.,.ires of the Governor General himself. A fortiori I would submit this
-Oounoil and the local Government of this province have absolutely no :power to enact any law such as is being proposed in this Bill. Therefore,
-even assuming that the Honourable Minister for Education was per fectly right in describing it as an imposition of a. tax, although that :is really ma.king too big an assumption, even then, this Bill cannot be ,entertained by this House, barring as it does the door to certain suits which
.this Council has no power to do. Then, the question is whether section 80-A, sub-clause (l) which haa
been referred to applies to the present ease. Here again the whole question .hinges upon the· interpretation of the words ' peace and good government.' I am really surprised that the words 'good government' a.re being inter ..
-p~eted to include everything possible. These words a.re not supposed· to 'be omnibus words to give every power to local legislatures. They are .to be · rea.d in the_ first instance to mean something analogue with the word ' peace.' ·'. Peace and good government,' that must be taken as something alike ·with "What is signified by the word ' peace ' and not everything which might have to be faced by the administration of a province. Otherwise more than
·99 per cent. of the whole Ia.w will become redundant. It will be a carle -blanehe to the Ioesl legislature, You can do everything, you can impose any tax, you can ma.ke any law for the 'peaoe and good govemment • of
-the country. While the Goverrunenl of India. bas imposed salt tax, you think it is necessary for the good government of the provi)loe
-that you should impose pepper tax or some sol't of other tax and you do it. That certainly is not within the powers of this
'legislature or of this government. Therefore the words ' peace and , good government ' are to be interpreted in the first instance to mean what they would obviously and naturally mean and not include
·the imposition of taxes or the validating of invalid impositions nor ~nything -else of the kind, and consequently the words ' good government ' must be I
·· taken to mean something which is akin to the word 'peace.' Surely that J
won't mean the imposition of a tax of whatsoever kind Government may J
· take into its head to impose upon the people of this country. Otherwise ·there would be no end to imposition of taxes and enactment of laws. They j . have only to say, ' this is for the good government of the province, this is · for the peace of the province. Ii we don't pass this validating Bill the
· members of the District Board of Sialkot may light with the traders there or 1ometbing else may happen. So, it is necessary for the· peace and good'
, government of the province.' That i& certainly not the object -Of :the pro· -'Vision in the Government of India ,-Act.· · Then again, the.e, words mu11t be
U89-. .. T~E n7N.TAB DISTRICT BOARDS (TAX· VALIDATING) BILL.
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l I
I l I I
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[Dr. GQki,I. Cb.and ·-Narll(lg.;] . r&ad- subject to the restrictions -wliich are imposed underthe A~~ itself •. ;· Only within those restrictions can taxes be imposed. for. the peace and good; ~ierilment of the province. So.laws may pi!&~~te!! for tb.e p~Q.e.;i.Qqgood gQYJal'Dntent of.the province and not beyond.~ha.t. . .
Mr. H.-W.-£mer19n: Will.the honourable memberbe good eJ¥)pgh to-sa.y under .what . section of the · Government 9f Indi_a . Act, sqhed~~oo · ta,ces are imposed ? ·
·· ,Pr.~ .~MN·,~~d, .~,r.,t~.: llµcler ~~p~~t(;l rQ,_~s .. I )Va,~t Jp ~p&- fft!~&~:s.:Th\t~t::~~~,:·~b~rf':;1~;~,:.~ttt\;!t~~;/1f.ei~~,:;~itt t4~ ,9~rf~ to do it. ~ijey .a.re qi.ro)Vi~g ~ll us t~.e. bµl'~\lP pf .l)fpyip._g ~l)~t tb,lij_lia.ve not gqt the pO)V;0i' .wlt~h;~he;)'_.~pQlll4. 11-9t .'Y)· Jt.1sJqoW~ ,~t t.~~ t9,1.~ from an entireb· wrong point. Rf ";jew. If pr~,rui .focie ~ :tnjpg se~,µs ti>"}>~ }.Vr9P;g ~µd ~ff~~~it,abli, .~pd .i~t.l,}ff.er~s wit.Ii Q,irfi righti, .JW~ Ji~~W~i,es of;W:s ~ftJoJ,e,sty,'..a.,a.µ_~J()<;ts,. it 1SJ9r tpq~e who J'{Qnt to ~l!~j()S.t.?-)~)V to ,qe ena.cted t'6 piont · out that they have any au~4prjty' µp.d_er. the _G;-<?:f!:!Pl.J:90,t of 'Ipdja ~ct. to do it and not to as~ .us ' by wh.a.t are we prohibited.' No,. the-question shonld rather- be ' by what are you, authorised tojmpose this tax upon as.' I say, if it is not an imposition,' qy what 'ai.1.thority are they· ent~ to prevent people -from realising money which has· been taken by ~~~~. . . . . . .
A~- . .
·· · ,1'f}.'.:,JM'ideJlt: ija.y I re~er. t.h.eJ~Jm·R~ritbJ.e C_\1-j.ef, ~e£il.:~t,~ry~tp,~~,c,tioµ 45: . .fi. J.irid.e.r ~.~l>~iQJ.1.(l.) (~) ?f )Vhicli" prnvi~h;i11 fr}..iJ,,y _p,e ·,u~'d.~ "})p7 ·.Hl}~f. ll,'1fl~.r tJ}jtl 49.t, (g) J)r t,~e-,o~.S~lpf1&t~~~;~f ,mhJ~l~, jp'r~J9ttiq~ ,to._tfl:e.Ji;1J:O~ • ti~:e?.f.-JgP:Y(~q:rp.e~tJ -~~ c~p.tt~l. ,.~rid )~to.vin~j})_l JU:~J~cts, {9.r. t4e ·~.PrrP.~~~ ot~W~lit,JQS :,\Re; fu:9.Q~)pijS ,pf lp~~l ~pv~r~ri,~P.l~. ~p~ J%"'l Jepi ~~w~,-, ft~JP, t~e Jf~<>~~ o~ We, <1,py~,;npJ:G·~~~~ly:~. ~u.R~~l »~~ , ~h,e. 111,g,iJlp 1fR1h- l~~~r~t ,, :m~~ ite Dl,l},ile t!P:~~r t}p.s .~µp~.sect19,~! .
,.;-··or.,~ f~lf, ,~Qg-; ,l\Iy hcm.ou.~~\)le ,frjeJ1µ faµ~it -~~~It G!!l!.Pd ,~~.s .P9.i.Pting O,!lt _to .m~ ·W read oqt J1~'1~iop 4~. . But l.)Va.sj9~t ,tel.hug iv);t9:I>Qµr~bJe :fJ;ien<;l J-4'. ~Etner~f)!l .tha,t i_t wss D.Qt_,q_ur Q.µty h~~ejp .stan+l tg.p~.cr~~;~am,in~.tj()p as ,to under .:what J.a.w this ,:sv.as .done .. .I,t -, w1t.s, In Hw , · fif~.i>~e:~~irJfut.y to point out under what authority, they ~~,n~e.~ to .. k#ep Jpis mqp,ey wb.w.h .they .have ~a.~ep illegally. It .is Jc?r ith~. q~v~!"p.m,,.ent .to point out · the specific provision in the Government of-1.µdj~ Act under which provision is made for the impositionof scheduled
. ta~~s &J!~ for taxes .. which this Government is authorised to i~P9§El· ,I . 'Y~pldJtierejpre ~µp~it that _so far a.s reliance has b.een placed upoµ ,sectiop. 8Q·.A of t4!} Government o:f India Act, it d9es not ,help tl~~ Go'{"~r-p.~ ment in ~pe ml}tter. We -~quJd have b~en very gla<l, if i.t were op€;!), tp}IS- to pnp.r.~l,lt th_e empai;ra.s.si:;1ent t<> .the district l?oiu-ds, . 'Ne. certail)ly, e:a,µn,9t beJ;!•c..P.a.rty.~9,r~t:>:J;lete.1·,:t!J pay Paul. We canpot be a party .to an.y,tpipg·.,,'Np-ic"!i is ,ill~ga.l ,:~nil uµp.ut.ho.rised J,ec~u.se it .. w~:mJd he setting 9-p '°'n .ext,eme,ly · dMtgE}l'P!,JS :PT#:l,t;,epe.Qt.. :They wa.l;lt .. to .. val.i,dat.e au jIJegal .Act.. Tp~n~f:l;'.fOW'' ope P.e,pµty :.C,oJiunis::,jql;l.er Jf1a.y t_Me jt .iAto ,l:iis he.ad to a:s.k ,a .di.striQt ,bq51-_r.4: t9 .:imP9.&:e,~t.J.9tbJ'lr ;~~ ~hicp roay1.b~ a\>sqlqtely UfogaJ. . . ·,:. : .. ;
·· .. ;-·~ IJono~ra~le ~ir Geo.f..rey :~onimo,ency: !s i~ ayo·i:nt::i. oHmi~r :.or: a ·-{)cnnt ol polwy that0th~··honoutabfe m·emberis El'.istnissiogfl .. : ·r
PUNJAB LBGlSJ,A'Tl!IB COUNCIL. . {26'.ra No,vR. l 9'27 1-.·.~
.. ,-·-.-····"~ Ill"""
Dr. Gokul Chand Narang : Then, there is .a:.ifuther point which has:. teen . e,r pressly mentioned in the ,Bill its.elf, that is, that sanction has been·. obtained under section BO,A. .The Govemment . esanct .shift the ground· now anil .Ray we collie under another. seeticn.. I :Say, let them wait', let them_ take Le.g:1la,dvi~e and then come.Iorwazd with a Bill if they want to bring one and if they. are so advised. As eireumstances stand at present thi~ Bill cannot, be proceeded with in the Council. That kI!ly' humble opinion. and Iho11e your ruling.would be in.oonformisy .~ith that.
Mr. ;P~esident; May I ask the Legal Remembrancer to .state what- thellligh Court has deeided ? Has he got the judgment here? · ·
·The -Honourable Mian Sir .Faw,i .. lipuin : I have got the judg-' · ment and l will proceed, tnrsply. · · · · ·
Sir, we had started with a point q( order, which poin,t of order it was fel~ that the· Pre. si4en. ~ of the· L,egis). a.,tive · C?nn¥il .was· ~qi1,1& )? , ~~ii~ .. ii):. pom(; of order, ,We_ tned to ~ender sw;p asinstaz.:tce to ~.1..z.n 3.s lt ,'\!'!(lfltlj~,i;l. our.po:-"er, not.having studied ~pe point before }la~!l; Jo,u ·yv-~re.pl_e,!J..s~f to mv1te general help from all sides· of the,Hoµse. ' ·
Mr. President : I also have not studied' the point. In fa.ct, it was sprung upon me as a surprise. · · · · . -,
·Th~ :Ho~oHrable ~anS~r fa~".j .. ~~,~~ : You Jnvit~f .. h\lJp; from all-sides of the· House. Efforts were being made to render that q.el}?:: Sii;ioo·then) t<;iiun~_E}eI'S h~ve,incre~s,ed. so_'~Q,C~ 'in'1.111wb~r ~~4· ~o w:~~t ii~i been· their enthusiasm tha.t · I am afraid it \S d1ffi.cuJt tc; see the. tree for t.ha·
~J:!: ~=f~:;,~; ;~~ 0:::; ~~~t:~1~!~.~~~:ttji~~~jf {!}i:e{~\\~!· Vie sre,ymat .ar~.~he points, :wh~th,~r t~ose points are.sucht:ba.t.tAeyJ;ip;v~ to~ d~ist,e.d ~y you, ~ir, a~· Presirlen~ of t~e Je~sl~tuie, or '!h,ethe.r)p~y ,W;~:, p~ts :,v~ieh the Legudative Cou?:cll · has to decide; or wl).e~·~r tli.ey }mt points which both you and. the . legis,lat'?-!e woqi~ prefer to be dec.1d~d l:,y tP.fi3· Judiefa_ry, as. t~e most suitable' authority for _de9NJ1:1_g $at ,J?O~~t· ~e, first point which-I feel, as Leader of the· House, it is my duty to mention'. is that this House has certain privileges Ji:µd prer9gatiy~~,&e~jn f!lJlifions. to discharge and the efforts 9£ every. l~gis,li_l.ture have ,inv;ariably b~e,n diij:eted. towards extending the scope of its functions and not towards restricting it (hear, hear). I may therefore consider t}.ie attack that has been made oii the jurisdiction ofthe House as an infringement of its privileges. I wouldnafo:~ rally expect that you in whose custody the privileges of the · Ho.use, are-safs: will see t~at iri deciding the point of order, it. is thepoint of order that is d~cided and n.ot that our President is being called upon to give a decision whereby the functions and the jurisdiction of the House are going tobe restrfoted. It may be open to higher authorities, jealous qf the increas-.. ing rights and privileges of this House to legislate, to decide that such :,and. such a point is outside the scope of this legislature. It i;s perhaps open to the High Court alsoto decide that the particular legislature has gone beyond its .seope .. The legisiat.~te is subject to such restrictions. But unless you, Sir, feel confident that· an attempt is being made ?Y th~ Goyern~1e,9-t j9 anla:Vfull.y. extend th~ ~cup.e a.nd the povrers of this· leg1slatu~e,. al\~·,19~ !e1;1I ~t your dnty tn prevent th'l,il being d?ne,I. trust that no .point of Qrdet will h_e availed of to pro~uce·.s???:~·~rrm!t :· ~.trust, £;r., ~h,a.t I am voi~~~f the wishes of the whole-Hense m'g1~·1-ng·ex-pre-3oontothat view. · · ·· · .
{Hon . .M.ia.n Sir Fazl-i-Husain.] . .Now, Sir, we come to the point of order-which is whether the Billwhich
·-the hononrable member in ebarge of the Bill seeks that it be ta.ken into -eonsideration, is outside, I will not say, within, the jurisdiction of the House, 'The issue is whether it is outside the jurisdiction of the House. A Bill ·presented to this House by Government after obtaining sanction from the '(,overnment of India. is presumably within the jurisdiction of the House, but it is open to a.ny one to say that it is outside the jurisdiction of the House
-and then the issue is not whether it is within the scope but whether it is outside the scope of the activities of this House. Now, in order to determine whether it is outside the scope, you were earlier in the afternoon sddressing yourself to this point. Would this Bill be outside the scope of this Council's jurisdiction if it were not a validating Bill, i.e., if it were a Bill impos- ing this tax for the future ? Naturally this is the question which suggests
~itself to one's mind, and if I am not mistaken, at the time, you were, Sir, ilso inclined to think that if such a Bill were prepared and the Governor·
·Genera.l's sanction were obtained, it would fall under section 80-A, sub· .ssetion (8) (a}. That seems to be obvious.
Now a doubt ha.s~arisan as to this Council not possessing jurisdiction to consider the Bill because it is a Bill whioh is not prospective in its effect,
'l>ilt retrospeotive. Therefore the issue comes to this. Because this Bill 'involves legislation as to the pa.st four years and not as to the future four
· years or a.ny undefined term of years, this doubt has arisen. That was the ~rst point raised by the honourable member for Hoshiarpur, Subsequently -other points have also crept in, one that was mentioned by the honourable member for Rawalpindi being that "this is an income-tax, do not go near
'it, this is an all-India subject. The High Court says, this levy is an in -eome-tax." Am I now to understand whether we a.re dealing with the first -point of order that is to say, it is a retrospective measure, a validating ':Bill and that section 80..A, sub-section 8 (a) relates to prospective measures ,,and therefore this retrospective measure is open to suspicion, or both ?
Mr. President: Both, I think.
The Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Husain: First, I will take up ;the point of the honourable member for Hoshiarpur and then that of the .member for Rawalpindi. As regards the first point, with due deference, T would venture to submit that if any validation is permissible at all to a legislature it can only be retrospectively, and the mere fact that tho measure ·is retrospective in its teehnioal aspect and in its formal aspect . makes, I venture to submit, no difference whatever. Whether it validates for a. day,
=a week, a month or a year or for the matter of that lor hundred years .makes no difference. It is open to the legislature to consider. the Bill
·on its merits and to say: 'Oh, it is going to validate a measure -extending over a number of years, so we will have nothing to do with it, our good sense revolts against it.' But as a. teehmcsl point, .as a point of law, certainly it makes no difference whether it is validating for a day, a week, a month or a year or hundred yMrs. 'IDherefore, I venture to submit that under section 80-A, sub-section (3) (a) ihe fact that it is retrospective is no argument whatsoever against the Fi,. "'vious assent of.the Govemor-General being o(an.y use.
[25TH Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LBGISL.ATIV:S COUNCIL,
Mr. President: I think I should state my point of view again. 'The question is not whether a provincial Council can or cannot impose a ta~ retrospective or prospective-swith the sanction· of the Governor-General. bo iar the law is perfectly clear. But the question is whether non-liability to refund an illegally recovered tax and authority to impose a new tax ar~ synonymous expressions and mean the same thing. That is the point for decision. ·
The Honourable Mian Sir Fa2.l·i .. Huaain: Non-liability to rofund. So, the point to which I will address myself forthwith i's whether these words used in clause (a) 'imposing or authorising the imposition ' bar the right of the legislature to consider this Bill. Well, Sir, if you permit me to sa.y so, I will say that love of technicalities is the bane of all legally trained minds, mine included. Here we are trying to see whether the legislature has power to do for the past one year what it can dofor the next one year, whether the words 'imposing or authorising tho imposition of any new tax' create, a bar in the power of the legislature affecting its power. I submit that they do not for the following reasons. The word ' new,' it has already been explained, makes absolutely no difference because what has been imposed. and collected was in the eyes of law not a tax but a levy, an unlawful col lection. It is only when a legal measure is enacted that it will become a legal imposition· or a new tax. The tax will certainly be new, having been newly authorised by the law; and that again is nothing more than simply giving retrospective efreot in; the technical language. Now, if you say that it is
· open to the legislature -to do for the year 1926 what it can do for the year 1928, then I beg to submit that the words ' imposition of a new tax ' are nothing more than paraphrasing in legal language retrospective effect for 1926. The words 'imposition ' and · non-liability; so far as the point of order is concerned, I submit, "have absolutely no bearing w~. ~herefore, so far as the point of order is concerned, I venture to submit that· the -eorreot-ruling on that would™ tha.t if it is in order us an OH.Li.nary Bill; it is also in order as a validating Bill. · If one is allowable, ths other also is allowable.
Next, I come to the income-tax argument which may be described .as fl: red herring across the trail. It has r,eally got no merit other thsn Jl:mt o~ a resourceful advocate urging an ingenious argument towards {he !~g end
· of the day, when he feels that the brain 'of the judge n3· getting more or less clouded, and he may snatch a favourable decision for that 'reason.
The Honourable Judges of the H~gh Court have .expre~sl{~titaj\hat if it .is an .ionco:me-tax ~t cannot h imrp~ed under section ·SO 'ot{he 'Punjab Districj Boards Act without the .consent 'of the Governor-General. It is not an income-tax· under the Income-tax Act, end what is stated is tha£ l;'be impoeition of certain taxes is permissible under the. District Boards Act :and this is one of them ; but inasmuch as it is analogous to rnoorile-tih: on s1;nalt incomes, and income-tax being a central subject and a close preserve of-t.ne Government ~f India, the Provincial Government "CB.JUI.Gt ~p:ose.iit. '.Without tlle pr.evii,ms. co:ns,ent of. the Governor-General ... ·TM·int[>?Sition:wonld :,be· .n:t).cle~ the. District Boards .Act ; but it could not be iril.'.P_osed ,unless the {lov.er· ~.r~-Gen~aJ. permitted . its. being . done. . Ther~fopi,. when -the. Punjab. legis lature is de~Jing · with it, it is ~eating_ 'tit;!{ it :~n~er ~ha;t ·li~f ~.d::~o't 1:l~:.tb~ measure of ~come~tax to which ;real:ly the ·Goverm:nOOit ,()If ;India:~ entitled.
I)
THE PUNJAB DISTilJC'f BOARDS (UX-VALIDATING) BILL, 1493
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1;}~ .!~?.- r: '·~f1~~ ~,JU <.:J~
·Pandit Nanak Chand: Is that not . also drawing a red herring ir?
The Honourable Mi~n Sir Fazl-i-Husain : Oerta.inly not. There is the Government of India to whom the income-tax ·belongs and is most -zealo'U~ly guarding it against any intruders, and here is my friend· trying to save the Government of India from being deprived of the tax by · the Punjab Government.
Mr. President: It was said that neither the Chair nor this House has any right to discuss the point.
· The 'Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Hmain: The statement I made was that there were a number of points argued, some of which were for the Council to decide, some for the Chair to decide and some more which it would be the duty of the Judieiary to decide. If supposing I say, for argument's sake, tha., it is Open to any one to take the mabter to a Civil Court and say that this law has been passed without jurisdiction .
Mr. President: Suppose the Bill is passed into law but the tax-payers, ignoring it on the ground that this Council has no jurisqiction to pass it, institute suits for refund of their money oil the allegation that· the ssme was illega~y recovered from them. · ·
The Honourable Mian Sir Fait-i•Hutain : The reason why I drew att.ention to that point was this : let us take the other alternative. Suppos ing now this Bill is ruled out by the President. What is the remedy open.so !he. Government ? They cannot- go to a civil .eourt and lodge a suit against the President of the Legislative Council.
Mr. President: But the Honourable Member will concede tnat it can be pleaded in a court of law that a certain legislation is·ultra. owes of the body which passed it.
the Honourable Mian Sir Fazl-i-Buiain f ·yes. I was- trying to place the other alternative. In one ease there is a remedy and the Oourt ean 11ay that this legislature has no jurisdiction to pass the Bill. But ifthis legis lature is not allowed to proceed with the legislation a.t all, the courts can· give no relief to those who think that the legislature has the power to preeeed with it.
·lMr. Pcl'esident: What has Dr. Gokul Chand Narang to say oa thi& poi.at'} , Will ;the --passing of the Bill into la.w estop or debar · the persons; ·from 'Whom the, tax wa.s ·illegally recovered, from ignoring $.he .Act and· :instituting suits for recovery of their -money from the district boards ? {EI11s'not,the High,Oourt jurisdiotion to hold and declare,that this· Council b.ad,, no, jiui&dietion to ,.pass the .!ot ?
[Hon. ·Mian Sir Fazi-i-Husain.] l tru·~t I'have made the point clear that this bogey of mcome-tax and a central subject and so on, is really nothing more than a red herring. Again I ma.y be permijtod to draw your attention to a· Punjabi proverb which has been morethan once used in this Council and tha.t is ;
[25TH Nova. 1927. PUNJA:j3 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1494"
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Dr. Gokul Chand, Narang : On this point I would frankly admit thet. Jega1lly speaking it would be premissible to a litigant to say that the Aet passed by this Couniel is ultra vires and .therefore invalid and has no force.· But you know, Sir, what would generally happen. Tht:l courts would say,
·• you ought to have objected in the Legislative Couucil itself and n6t allowed the Bill to pass.' '
Mr. President : Will the Court say so to the litigants i Ca1in9t the latter say ' we were not the members of tho Council'?
Dr. Gokui Cha~d, Nar~n~: Agai~ that \vo~ld ~ean that a whole c~op -of oases will go on until the matter reaches . the High Court and we get .ajiq~l pronouneemen] .. 1fr honourable friend ·is right frorn a '.J.:iurely technical point of view. In fact, I could refer to certain rulings in which 'certain Acts passed by-Iegislatures have been set aside by courts. 'l'here is one in 45 -Caleutta and another in 27 Bombay. But the question is whether, when ·we .. know that we are not doing the correct thing, it is proper to proceed with it. .
Pandit ]Nanak Chand : I have to say something on this point.
Mr. President: I have already made a departure from the rules of "business in discussing this important point of .order. No member, strictly: speaking, can speak twice. But in view of the great importance of the: point, I ha.Ye, heard every lawyer member _of the House, , ',Che h~not1~able member has no right of reply. _ · · , · .·
Pandit Nanak'Cband: I am not replying. You will remember that . ,you· pointedly named me' and Dr. Gokul 'Chand Na rang with regard. to thia · particulBr point which you ha Ye raised. I differ from my honourable friend on this point. ·
Mr. President: I think Dr. Gokul Chand Narang was quite frank. I admire his candour.
Pandit Nanak Chand: 'I'here is a difference between the powers of :the various High Courts.' The Supreme Court of the· United Stittes 'is em· . · powered to take into consideration all those questions ; but our High Courts. · I think, 'are. not. I am not certain. They are to administer the law as it; is made. They cannot possibly take all those objections which can be take:Q in . ihe Supreme Court of the United States. I do submit that if you · wlrt'e to give 'me time, . I could convince the House that the Hig~ Court oi Lahore cannot go into this question, . Mr. President: If I understand rightly, the position as put forward ~y Pandit Nanak Ohand is that in cage this Council passes the Bill into law,
;it,will become good and sound law, free.from all objections from any qu,i.r- ter whatever .
. The Honourable ,Mian. Sir Fazl--i.-H11sain : It .will first need the .assent of His Excellency the Governor and then the assent of Hi3 Excellency .the Governor-General. It is not right to say that it becomes final as soon as it is passed in this Counoil. -
Mr. President: After hearing ihe able argiuue.nts whioh have been ;put forward by the learned members of the House, both for and a.gaimt the ,I>Osition taken up by the honourable Pandit Nanak Chand, I think the \ax
rJjJ
1495• TflE PU~JAB DISTRICT BOARDS (rAX·VALroArr:-.o) BILL.
I I I I J
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1so-.A {I) 'Ihe local legislature of 11ny proyinee _ha& _po,H,r, su bjt<.t to the provisions oL thia Act, t.o.ma.kehnve for the i:e11ce and good Government cf the territcrics for the time being comitnt.iug: that provibOe.
(2) . ; .- .-. • • • (3) 'Ihe local'l~gis.latute of en.y province may net, withcut the pre-vices eaneeion of.the,
Governor-General, make or take into consideration any Jaw- . (a) imposing or authorising the. imposition of any new tax unless the ta; is a tax
scheduled as exempted f:rom·this.'pro'\>iE,ion byrules made unm-r this ·.Aet; or, (b) . "' • "' . "' (e) .· •• - • • • (d) • • • •
(e) regulating any'..central. subject.; .or w • .
l"liNJAJl .L.EGJBLA'.£'IVE CO"L':NCJL, 1496
[Mr. President.]
w1i{;h was originally imposed was notin its nature income-tax. '.1he word. .' if' in i.he sentence "if it was income, tax ' makes this point quite clear.
Dr. Cokul Chand, Narang: n.he High Court says 'it is an income tax.'
The Honourtble Mian Sir Faz.l .. i .. Husain: 'l hey my "even if it is ·an income-tax ' and so on.
Dr. Gokul Chand, Narang: [his is what is stated in the High, Court Judgment :-
" Can it lie ~.jd that such a. tax is not an income-fax, that ie a tax on incomes? In. my judgment there is no escape from the conclusion that the tax impoiied under· Punjab Government notification No. 14.672, dated the 221d May 1924 11-ithin the area subject to the jurisdiction of the District Board of Sialkot is illegal. and 'Ultra ~ ires in that it is a second income-tax on pereons practising profes •.
- sions or carrying on trades or callings,"
--:Mr. ~r.esident : Cannot Eis Excellency the Governor-General accord sanction to a Frovincial legislature to legislate on matters connected with income-tax in its province ?
Dr. Cokul Chand, Narang : 'lhat point has not teen decided by the Bigh Court, and_ior that we have the Government of India Act and the rules. matte thereunder and we know that-income tax is not a provincial subject. ·
The 'Honourable Malik Firoz Khan, Noon : Sir, :rr.ay I make one point on this question or income-tax. In Section 80 of the District Boards, .!ct there, are two sub-sections. According to one of them we can impose certain taxes given in a particular schedule. Sub-section 2 of that schedule sa,ys that the District Leard can impose any other tax with the previous sanction of the Governor-General. 'I'hat includes every Iorm of income-tax. p1:~vJ~~ it :is_ Ie~ied with the sanction of the Governor-General. .
Dr. Gokul Chand, Narang : Section bO says nothing on this point, ..: Mr. {P.re'~id~nt: Whether the tax ·in question ({e., the hauiiyat~tax).
wa~ in itl!I io1in_·o~ nature income-tax or any other tax, which was illegally imi.;osed' and' collected by certain· District Boards, it appears clear from sub cla use (e) l:if'!>ll~-'Sootion (3) of Beetion 80-A1 that the Governor-General was perfectlyt~rnpetent _fo give sanction to this Council "to make or talrn into·· co~io.e1ation· any law" 'regarding that tax. 'Ihere can be no doubt :that·
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TIHl PUNHB DIS'l'RIO~ B(H.J.OS (TAlt·V . .U,IDATING) BII,L, H97
,rith the previous sanction of the Governoe-Genezal, a Pcoviueial leii3fa~1:1re can mske law with regard to "a.ny central subject." Therefore,: even if the tax: in question is income-tax · in its form or nature and :thus a· central subject, the Governor-General was fully competent to give sanction to this Council to legislate about it. · ·
Those who maintain th~t the Council is ca:npeteat, even ,vith:,1.1t the previous sauetion oftha Gover ior-Ganeral, to deal with th1 Bill, rely upon clause (1) of Section SOA and contend th'.\t the local legislature of a.uy provi11c1:1 bas power to make laws for the peace and good ~over.nm:snt of. th~ ·territories for the time being constituting th'lit province. This. contention :ignores the most important word~-" subject to the provisions of this Act " -in the clause. There can be no manner of doubt that the clause is to be .read and applied " subject to the provisions " of the Government of fodi~ Act and that a Provincial Council csnnot pass any law for its Provjnoe independently of the provisions of that Act .
. The Leader of the House has argued th!\t the.word 'new ' in sub-ala.u~e (a) of clause (8) is useless. I 11,m unable to agree wit_h him. No word of a -statute, especially of the Government of India Act, which is a. Parliamentary enactment, can be taken to be useless, redundant Of supertluous. I t1link the word ' new' clearly signifies that the tax imposed or authorise.] tO be imposed should be such as was not imposed or in existence before.
A& to whether the Governor-General's sanction for making or taking into -consideration a law ,the object of which is to absolve or expnerate the <Iistriot boards from their civil liability to refund certain taxes," which were imposed
-and collected illegally, can fo,11 under clause (3) (a) ol section SJ-A, · t think by no stretch ot language the words " imposiaj or authorising imp->~i· tion" can be interprebel to msan "non-liability to rnfnni ' or 'prohibition -to recovsr ' a ta,c illegally imposed and collected in the past ·
On the above interpretation of clause (3) (a) of Section 80-A., I was going to uphold the objection a.·p.imt ths v ~liiity of ths sanction unlar that clause, bu] Dr. Gok 11 Chan I Naraug h'.l.l conesled witit al-qin1obl!3
.osndour th1.t if the Bill is pTHe1 irito law, ibs J9p\i~y csn be ch1.lfo,1;ei in civil courts. On the other .hanI, Pandit N anik Chand h'l.~ vi_({orou3ly -eontended that if the Bill is passed by the Council is-will b9~Qm9 good la.}v.·,· . . and that the Civil Courts cannot question its legality; . . ·- . ..
' .· . . ,·, . '
Now, on Dr. Narang's view, if the Bill is taken into consideration, passe'd .and placed ori the Statute Book, it can in no way affect the legal liability oi -the district boards to refund the taxes, inasmuch as, on the Act being pleaded in bar to a suit, the High Court may declare it to be i~ltra »ire« of the Council. In other words, the presence or absence qf the Ao,~ will have no .effect whatsoever upon the rights of the tax-payers to recover Qle ~axes collected from them illegally. On this view I am inclined to leave it to the judiciary of the province ta decide this important quertioa of law. Let the interested and aggrieved persons follow the learned Doctor's · advice and
· proceed accordingly to law. On the other hand, if the Bill; when p mod·, is to become good law, the Honourable Pandit's objection a:sa.ins6 the juris .diction of the Council does not go to the root of the evil arid is, therefore, not .entitled to much weight, Jfou'! on either view I S0) no revson why the law· making power of the (Iouneil should be restricted or curtailed. ·
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. . ·. ·.. . i . . . . . RaiHda Bans Raj. [Jullundur-cam-Ludhiana (Non-Muhammadan);
Ruml)J (Urdu) : Sir, .in view of the recent High Court ruling there can be no· two opinions as to the illegality of the baisiyat tax. I leave that point aside a.p.4 ~~Y. a few words as to how this tax was collected from the people of . the Ludhiana district. As you know, Sir, the people have now become conscious of their lef.a1 rights. :Katmally this invasion on their. kgal 1igl;:ts wa.s received: with .great indignation everywhere l:ut it was most bitterly resented by the people of the Ludhiana district. 'l'hore, the retty officials had resorted to· illegal ~o~ce fo~ foe realisation of this tax. T~ey committed a great many ir-: regularities. The people were made to stand under the sun, were threatened. .. with prosecutions and so on. Such were the ways in which this, tax W~B collected from the people. Sir, in this connect ion I am reminded of a Erah man who took a.way by force a cow from the possession of its owner and later· on asked himto give it away in charity to the former. Similarly, the Govern ment have !mt robbed the people of their money and now when the tax.
, has been declared illegal and ultra cires, they come forward with the request that they should not be compelled to make refunds. Sir, no self-respecting- people can ever welcome -such an: arbitarary action on the part of the execu tive government. The1eforn, in order to teach them a lesson we should' reject the Bill .
. Sar~~~ ltaif>~u~i $i.ng)i [Hoshiarpur and Kangra (Sikh), Rural].' {Urc\u}: Bir, there w._3:s absolutely no occasion for t~e unnatural: and _unnepes· s~y,.heat Jl:tat.has been ii:ppoxtecl in the pisc!lssion_ oi the_ Bill, It, is q~~te a;, simple imea.~ure_., )ta opjec.t is to validate . the imposition qf the bae1y~t · ·ui;,-, about t;he lfgati~y of whi,c,h serious doubts have arisen since .the High .. ·co"Qrt bas he14 the.lni.siy,at tax imposed by the district board of Sialkot to be· illegal aµd uitra 1:ir;e~ on ~he ground that it is a form of income-tax the ~B()jjitton .of: which requires the sanction of the .. G_overnor·General. -~ir,.. I support the Bill not : because .I am vice-chairman of a dis trio t.
Lala Mohan'. Lal (Nor.th-East Towns (Noa-Muhammaden); Urban]: Sh'., after heating the most.interesting discussion that we heve had'. Lconsiderit my duty, onbehalf of those.who havepaid this tax, to oppose the eonsideration of the.Lill, ·. Sir, \:>y passing this Act we will re putting those people who have paid the tax to an unnecessary expense .. _It is no doubt. true that they have already paid the Jax, but it is also true tha.t that tax we.s ~a1ly, charged. " T.1:.at money was taken from thrrn by .ohaukidars tl;u'ou.gn fore~, an,tl' tpey will now be asked to go to .tha civil court · and seek their protection. This, I submit, is unfair from the.point of those who have· paid. Are we going to be a party to passing thi~ legislation? . I. can .. assure you that in taking this course we .are robbing 90- per cent. of the poor· }Vho.haye paid either Re. l, or Rs, 2, or Rs. 2-8·0. These poor people will' litwer go. to court. They have paid and we know in our heart of hearts that the tax that has been realised from them -is illegal, unjustifiable and o~~ t}:at cannot. be defended by us, and having that. knowledge and that feeling is it not our duty to see that their money ifl refunded to them ? I do, Ieel' v~ry strongly on the matter, and make a protest against our passing this Bill. In passing jt we will be stultifying_ ourselves. Pray, do not rob the poor. Do riot be a party to any such legislation. I strongly protest against. the consideration of this Bill.
[25TB N OVR, 192'1 ~ PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, 1498
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board but because I think that if you carefully study the whole sisa ation; · I 'am sur6 yoa wiU · come to too tonolusion . that the.,JBilLIDll&~ · be pesssd into Jaw and, that there ·is, no other alternati v& Mt 1!0: 11,8. Su:.- the 'honourable members who hav'1-·spoken,again&t the Bill · sefDl \0, have.· ig. nored th@ fdct tha.t the district · boa.rds are small, institution& a:md ~e SQ designed· as ·t(} impart' to the·· poople- . lessons in the art of Ioeel · self -~et1il,,>
'ment, :ij~fore· the· imposition of t.M ha.siyat tax the distJ!ie.\: l;>Qar.ds- were looked' · down upon by the people. and were called .!k.t.s~.&~
·boards· or ntere)y za.mind&rt!' eoneems. They were not fully n-pr~ tative bodies. Only the locai. rat&- p,ty@S' had she ~hti,o! vote.. 'Tue im pbfflion of· the ha:siyat tax; however, has given,frall.Chi.S&l to, a- considerable numbsr of> people of all elassss .. and· prof.es&ions. Tharefo1:-e, since. the impo sition of t~s tax these local bodies havebeeome more representative in ~~~ -eh~r&Cter.- His Excelleaeythe Governor-General and· Vkleroy. of. ~ on' the occasion' of' his ! ust visit to· Lahore had an.no~ced that henceforward no individual' or any hod'y of persons shall rule the <Wltinies of India and that a people's dyna.aty was going to be established, so aa to enable each and every individual to have his due share in the 6overnment of his country. There fore, it was in the fitness of things. if it was thought necessary to. make the local bodies representative in the real sense and if to achieve this end
the hasiya.t tax was imposed on those classes of people who.were previous to this imposition deprived of representation on the local bodies, They paid the tax and were granted the right of vote which they have duly exercised in the last general elections. Su-, we should not grudge the franchise granted to lower classes of people by this imposition but on- the· other hand we should co-operate with them with a view to make the scheme of local self-Government a success. When the hasivat tax was im posed in my district I was not a member of the district board, ot}¥lrwise
· I would have-persuaded it to impose the tax in the right manner. Sir, we should not suspect the bona fi.ihs of the district boards mentioned in. the- schedules annexed to the Bill. They have committed no wrong on rob'bery. Thi.'! mistake that is responsible for the whole trouble haf! crept in. in the method of assessment. Tax payers were not classified and the tax
· was collected on the basiil of income. This gave it. the Iorm of income-tax and hence its illegality. Thesf district hoards thought it a hardship to realize the same amount of tax indiscriminately from rich and poor merely according to a. classification of professions, etc. Sir, the scheme of taxa tion wa.tv}Jitrfectly right but the method of its assessment: was wrong. Please d:b not give way to sentune~ts. Let ns not raise the question of 2amhi.daJs· a:nd· non-zarmnda.u. We should trv to remove the misunder-
· sta:ndrugs under -whieh ,the, non-.zan#n4lars: are "hopelE!tlsly., labouring. ThE\Y ~:thop1.dhink t,h-at by the imposition of the tax the burden of the zamin dars.'ha;s been shifted 'on to their shouhl~ra. They do not.realise and appre oiate the· tl1U& na.ture; of the rights conferred on- them, They, pui:h&~ think t.hat by·th& imposition of'this tax a. ereai injutioe is b~g doaeto th~
· and tbat•it; is pe-rba.ts not a proper tax whieh also creates v01y valua.hl.) rights" but isa ·mern 'ghost.of a: penal fine which mu.st be shaken o,f[. 'llli~t ie·why instead·of pa.ying two rupees, they spend Rs. 25 and go ov~ to the
· ~~d:quarters of the dis,rict inorder to. appeal against th& imposition, Six. it' IS unmateria,l Wh~her. or not· this Bill is pa.siled into law ~~0 it mv~
(l'HE PUNJAB DlSTRlCT BOARDS (TAX·VALIDA.'l'INO) BILL. -14-99
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[S,µdat Harbakhah Singh.] validity to the taxes only upto the15th November 192-7, and afterwards .the district boards would prepare the schedules. after the model of sohe dules prepared by the Multan and Ferosepora district boards . according to a olassincatM>n ·of professions .only. Now, ta~e the question of r~funds. Much has already bean said about this. With regard to this, I would simply say this much that if the Government is not willing to make refunds you cannot compel it ; and if it is made to refund it would give the new schedules a. retrospective affect fromthe date of imposition. '.Ifuerefore, jt would simply mesa giving by one hand and taking away by the other. Moreover if refund of money realised by means of the· tax is to be made to only those who would seek the help of the courts, there would be a con· siderable number of persons who would not like to go to the courts, and there seems little justifioation to refund money only to those who .would go to the courts. 'Ilherefore, I request you not to entertain the idea of compelling the Government to make retunds because if it is made to refund, it would cause a great embarrassment of district board finances, but would do no good to the people as is mentioned above except creating a chaos.
Mr. President: May I Mk the honourable member to curtail his speech if he can do so ?
S~rdar Harbakhsb Singh: Yes, Sir, I am going to finish it. What I wanted to say is that we should do nothing which may stop the progress of Iocal-self-government. In conclusion I ask you in the name of peace and .good Government to pass this Bill into law.
The Honoural,le Mah"k Firoz Khan, Noon: Sir, I beg to request that the question be now put.
Mr. Pmiclent: There is the hand o(the.olock. Accordirig to our pra(} tice,w~ ought to disperse after another ha.If heur, while this Bill, it a.ppears, will take some time. So, either we shall have to sit after 6 .P.M;, or assemble to-morrow again. I do not think the honourable members like to sit late or ,attend to-morrow. I would ask them, therefore, to speak to the point so that we ·may· tfinish in time the rest of ·the business.
The Honour.able Malik Firez Khan, Noon : I request that the question be. now put.
Mr. Pnsillent: I have the honourable member's request in mind. Dr. Gopi Chand, BhargaTa [Lahore City (Non-Muhammadan), Urban]
{Urdu) : Sir, I have most attentively Iistsned to the able and well-reasoned speeches made by honourable members of this J:Iouse in eonneotion with the legal point raised by my honourable friend, the Raja Sahih, The matter which is .now before the House is orily the concern of the Local Govei::nment and .relases to ·the transferred subjects. Therefore if you are prepared fio validate the imposition oo' a tax which is held to be illegal and ultra vi.res 1!,y the highest tribuna;l of the province, you are going to stigmatise for ever '.t'he fair name of the Punjab and its Iegislature. If this Bill is passed into law it would not doany good to the country and even the Local Self-Govern ~etlt would not stand to gain 'anything. Bir, thoaa who know how the ,tax was collected, .how the .poor classes weee ,tyrannised by the petty -officials and what strong . protests -were made age.inst this imposition, can never
[25Tu NOVR. 1927. PUNJAB Ll!HHSLATIVE COUNOIL. 1500
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be prepared to stand for the Bill. Is it good Government to tyrannise t.~a people beyond their power of endurance P Were these ill'agalitia-3, tha.t ate
'g'(i)ing• to. be legailised by this Bili; co~mi.~ted .for j~~ ;aa.\ct:li o~ p110,m~titg peace ? · If: not, why . it is appealed ia, the. name. 0f . p~cre, ~ni(i go.);:i :ai:>r arn; menn to, legalise- these illegalities of th& di~tt:ict boards. Bir,'. oµ~i ot ~~· howwrable members. of the. Housa has stated tha.t the impositioa ()f the -t~ has enfranchised a: very large number: of people who previous to· the imposi tiun were deprived, of the· representation on local bodies. In my opinion this:argumant cerries.no-Ioree; ·baca1l1l0 this Bill, if passed into law, is. going to, Wtlida:l1e taixes up to i,h& 15.lih November 1927; I ask the h.onourable ·member how is he going to reconcile his argu.lDient, to the period after the 15th November 1927? ., , . : . · .. . .
Sir, I am in favour of the legal maxim " no representation and no :taxation." If the inter.ests of a class, of p,oopfu Bi@ p,~ l'ttp,r~seu.~AA a.Ioeal botty every individual belonging to th.at ola&s. wo~l:dr be pedect,ly w.i.thin hi$ rights to refuse payment of any tax imposed on him by the local bocly coµr -eerned. I say why do you not give franchise. to ev·ary adult member- £¥ all communities residing in the Punjab ? Or at least make rules similar· to those applicable to municipal committee; rogarding the eligibility of · a person to vote at district boar.I elections. If you so desire, amend the District Board .Act ... ,
Mr. President: Order, order, there is no Bill before the Council in which it is proposed to impose a new tax for the future. Only the valida ting measure is before the House.
Dt. Gopi Chand, Bhargava: Sir, I wanted to say that we should adopt a right method of enfranchising the people. Now, I turn to th.a -question of making refunds. It has been said tha.t if you want to force th#) Government to refund to the people the amounts realised from them by means of this tax: you should seek the help of the ao1,1rts of law. But, Sir, have you cared to consider the fa.et that for obtaining reliei from a oou.rt Qf law: the litigant has to incur certain ex.penses?. W~a you demand th,e retu.rn of a railway fare it is not returned to you unless certain. deducti,ons are made. Sir.niIArly when a litigant g00B to a court of law, he has to pay ·e.au;;;t,,feeSs acCQrdin.g to the value of the suit. Therefore, I would reg_u,01:lt the Government in the name of peace and good Government to refund q.e .amounts, realised from. them by means of this tax witho1,1t asking them to go to the oourts of law. Sir, as this Bill a.ims at the legalising of an illegal i~position oia tax, I would ask the honourable members to refuse even to consider this Bill.
Honorary Lieutenant Sardar Raghbir Singh [ Amritsar (Sikh), Rural] (Urdu) : Sir, it has been alleged that the haisiyat. tax is being most arbitrarily realised from the people. I, for one, do not support tljs assertion. Just as we are anxious for the achievement of responsible s0lf government the lower classes or kamins are also desirous of enjoying certain measure of local self-government Diatriot boards are ,rerv useful in stitnt.ioD:S, They have constructed roads, built schools, and hospitals for the use of the public at large. This tax is only meant for those persons whose annual income is Rs. 600 or above. Therefore to say that it touches
:the poorest of the poor is incorrect. Really speaking the opposition to this
THB PUNJAB DIBTR~OT BOARI;)S (TA;·V~LIDATING) BILt.. 1501 ,. - .,. ' -· ---- • ~ .:.. ~ • • ., -- • • + + ;, - •
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.>,:;.,· ~~ ~) J..j i,:Jli » IS ~
. He has his own weakness. When in the Kangra district the tax on. go~ts and sheep was levied everybody resented it. Butthe vice-pm!iderit of the district Foard voted for it because he was afraid lest the reduction in income should prove a stumbling block in his way. The misery and
Chaudhri Rain Si11gh [Kangra (Non-Muhammadan), Rural] (Uniu) : : Bir, I oppose the Bill under discussion, because I believe that it would, if pB~sed into 'law, adversely affect the interests of the zamindara, It has b'ooti staffed that the local rate payers are exempt from the payment or the ba_isiyat 'tax. It is totally false. I take the ease of my own distciicb. In 1917, local' rate was charged at the rate of 7 or 8 pies per rupee of the land r~venue: Afterwards it was raised to 10 pies per rupee of the land· revenue, With the imposition of the l.aisiyat tax it was raised to.12,piei. per rupee of the Iand revenue, It means that two pies per rupee are charged. by way of 1).ai'siyat tax. Haisiyat tax is 'charged from the non-zamindars according to the fixed· rates but in the· case of a zamindar it varies according, to tne atni)~t of land revenue he pays to the Government, and he bas to pay it even if he· gets· no income Irom the· land' in respect of which he pays the laad revenue. Stt, 'as is lnentfo'.ned in the schedule annexed' to the BilJI, haisiyat tax has been imposed by 23 district boardidn- the Punjab. I wonder when at the verf o'tltstit theltax was illegal and' ultra tires how it can ·afterwards be vali d'atet11. Did not the Government consult its Legal Hemembraneer be~,it actun:lly gave sanction to its imposition? And if it has been illegally imposed why should the Government hesitate to make refunds? My honourable· friend, E:ardar Sahib on the opposite side, has remarked that it is not afl'vis· iible' ta' make refunds, beeause some people will 'go to c~ts of law for th.e purpose an'd some will not do so. Sir, I ask him, ·why you compel t}i·e people fo go . to courts o'flaw ? Why not refund tliei!l llKl'MY by mehni of motrey (/Ca~ (laughter). Thilda.t·hwd aJsu been i.mposei:l by the disitict' board of Kangra. I Wiffl a~sl.'f' a member of the district board a.t th~dito.e. The resolution according to which this had been imposed by that district board was carried by the casting vote of the president. (A'voiee: pi~rhaps). Not perhaps, but certainly is'was carried by the casting vote of the president. It has not surprised me in the least that a vice-president of a district board has tried to justify the illegal actions of the district boaeds. Sir, aceording to a Persian proverb,
[Bony. Lt, Sar<lar Raghbir Singh.]
taxia due to the fact that the people like to have all conrforts a.nddaoiliaes, for nothing. Blacksmiths, carpenters and artisRI1s have permanent and ~Ady sources of income as compared withthe poor zaniindarwhoee caee.is quite uncertain. Iia is: not even sure ·to' ri}ap what- he has· sown. Sometimes his crops fail for want 0£- water. Sometimes his crops begin to rot owing to'tha abundance of.water. But hehaato.pey local rates under all-cireum staneea. Sir, whate"Nll' is:· realised from the people by means: of taxes is spent for: the comfort and' welfare of the public. It is natural· that tM· people should feel aggrieved' by the imposition of every· new tax. Therefore; we should not mind the general resentment of the public and pass the Bill into·
law.
[26Tn Nova, 1927 ~ PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COtNCIL.
•
Sir, the object of this amendment is to protect also district boards from claim for recovery oi taxes the imposition of which was cancelled by more recent notifications, in cases when such protection is not given by the Limitation Act, • ·
Mr'. Pretiitlent : The question is- " That in clause 2 of the Punjab District Boards {Tax- Va!idatini;:) Bill after the wont
, "schedule ',whe~ it,occ_urs for the second time the words 'and the tax-ea, if any, the imposition of which was notified in notifications cancelled by 1;1otificl\lion so specified ' and at the end of the same clause the words ' or until the dates with e.ffe<)t Irom which the notifications in which their im1'~ition was notified· we~ cancelled, as the case may be' be inserted."
Pandit Nanak Chand [ Hoshiarpur {Non-Muhammadan), Rural J:. Sir, I· oppose .the amendment. My reasons. for opposing this amendment are these. I ma.y tell you very frankly that this Bill should not be passed and the amendment helps in passing this Act. In some of the speeches that have been delivered in this House it had been shown that there is. a great donbt with regard to the legality of the proeeedings which are being taken to-day. On that ground alone, the Council should reject this amendment and should not proceed with any further c.ollSidet:ation ot. any business in connection with this Bill. But Ieeving t~11,f ~par,t, Sir, t~eJa,; bas .been weighing very heavily on the pooresf popu· lat~on of .th.e disfocts of the Punjab wherever the tax has been levied ..
CLAUSE 2. Mr~ J. G. 13eailey (Secretary, Transferred Departments) : Sirr
l beg to niove- " That in clause 2 of the Punjab District Boards (Tax- Validating) Bill after the word
' schedule ' where it ocoura for the second time the words ' and the taxes, if any, the imposition of which was notified in notifications cancelled by- noti fications so specified ' and at the end of the same clause the words ' or until' the dates with effect from which the notiflcationa in which their imposition was notified were cancelled, as the case may be ' be inserted."
havoc caused by this tax in the Hoshiarpur district is awful. My village· is ,situated on the boundary line of the Hoshiarpur district. The people of_ the Hoshiarpur district come to me every now and then and ask me. to· invite the attention oJ the Government to their poor plight. In my opinion the' Hoshiarpur district is heavily groaning under the burden of this tax.
· (A voice : what about Shahpur ?) I do not know anything about Shahpur, On the strength of my personal knowledge I am constrained to observe that this sort of t.a?-atioli. cannot either politically or morally be justified .. Therefore~ we should rejEict the Bill under discussion. ·- ' ~ .
Diwan Bllhadur Raja Narendra Nath: I move= "TJi.at the question be now put."
The motion was carried.
Mr. President i The - question is- "That the Punja.b District' Boards (Tax-Validating) Bill be taken into consideration.'r
The motion was carried. Mr. President : The Bill will be taken into consideration clause by
clause.
!l'HE PUNJAB DIBTRICT·BOA.RDS (TJ.X-VAii.lDATING) BILI ..
{Pandit Nanak Chand.] W~ have been accustomed to See many crocodile tears shed in i~~ Q~llDCil °Oq9':µ>,ber ;yhen the question of thll poor population of t4i~ province · comes for discussion. in this House. Times. without number honourable membe,s fro:r.n. various corners ofbhis House have g-0t up and said ' here we are, the .advocates of the rights of the poor. We wa;o.t this thing to be done for th.e poor and that thing to be done £or the poor.' Only the other day one honourable member got up and read out certain passages with regard to one of the poorest districts of the Punjab, namely Muza.ffargarh, wherein -is painted the misery of the people and he described how the people were in debt and how they were under various other sufferings. No,w this is a -question which touches the poorest of the poor. (Cries of no, no.) Either .YOU may go on or allow me to go on. ' I will not allow you to interrupt me. Even if you go on interrupting me, I will go on speaking. ·
Rai Sahib Chaudhri Chhotu Ram: On a point of order, Sir. Is the honourable member's speech relevant to the amendment?
Pandit Nanak Chand: I know the rules of relevancy. I was saying -that this question of the imposition of this tax or the prohibition of recover fog the money from the District Boards is one which touches the poorest Qf the poor in every district of the Punjab. I speak from personal experience in the Hoshiarpur district where I find that when this question was discus· sed in the district board a large number of members opposed the imposi tion of this tax not on the ground that it will touch what are called the non agriculturist classes, but agriculturist classes also and I can say that in the Hoshiarpur district mainly the agriculturists who derive their income f-rom other sources than agriculture had to pay this tax. These zamindars of the bsrani tracts were made to pay the tax in various ways ; one was made to 1)8.y on the income got by selling ghi, another on the income got from some· ·t.hing else and so on, on incomes which could not be properly brought under ihe definition of agricultural income. If any one had visited the large num ber of people who nsed to go to the towns of Hoshiarpur tcf lay their objee tions before the authorities appointed by the Deputy Commissioner to go i.nto this question whether their income should be taxed or not, he would have seen the misery and havoc this tax has brought on the poor zamindar population of the Hoshiarpur district. Hoshiarpur zamindars complain
.about this ta.:xc-Ahis illegal imposition. Simply because most of tho members of the Council are connected with the district boards, should not be a reason for passing this Bill into law. It will be a grave injustice. And forther this tax has been imposed on whars, tirkhan.s, chama'l's and others. I may assure the honourable members who are vecy fond of m~king speeches ,from the other side of the House that baniyas and sahucars are not at all touched by this tax of Rs. 3 or 4 or 5. It touches these telss, lohcws, tirkhans <1hamars, tonga-drivers and poor people of that sort, and the zamindars who are very poor. The people who assess this tax, who imy that such :and such a man should pay so much, know that this tax comes out of the pockets of the poorest population of the Punjab.
Sir, I oppose the passing of this Act on another ground. It has been said that the, fa?C afford;; a right of vote for elections to the district' boards to those people who pay it. I submit that when this tax was first levied most
PUNJAB LEGISALTIVE COUNCIL, , (25TH NOVR. 1927.
of the people who paid it were not represented in . the district boards, It was 'only afterwards and in <inly ·a, limited number that they got. this representation. I put a. question in this Council in reply to which it was said that those who paid Rs. 2 'were not allowed the right of vote .. (Cries of no, no.) It is no good saying' no, no.' 'I'he honourable mem ber who says so has not read the answer to the question given by the Gov ernment. Interruptions of this kind are quite unjustified and undignified •. I submit that most of the people who were taxed had no right of rspresenta tion in the district boards and the majority of them who pay a tax of Rs. 2. per annum were not given any right of representation even afterwards. Ou. that ground also I submit that this Bill should not be passed. It touches. the poorest of the poor. People who had no representation have been made to pay the tax and there is also a great doubt as to the legality of the Bill. On these grounds I oppose the amendment.
Cnudbri ZaftuUah Khan : Sir, to· my mind the question before the Rouse is what is the policy underlying this.
6 r. M. Bill, and in my humble opinion a great deal of unnecessary heat has been imported into the discussion ....
Mr. President: Order, order. At this moment the whole Bill· is, not under consideration. Qnly the amendment is under consideration, I hope the honourable member will not follow the example of his illustrious. predecessor (7,aughter).
Chaudhri Zafrullah Khan: Sir, it was only because my pre decessor was allowed to speak on the Bill that I ventured to stand up. I have· nothing to say if the discussion is not to be on the policy of the Bill.
Mr. President: Only the amendment is under consideration. Mr. E. Maya Das (Nominated, non-official): Sir, I wish to contradict
something which has been said by the honourable member who spoke before· the one who has just sat down. One statement made by him was that the 'poorest of the poor were taxed. Now, I-do not know who a!'e she-poorest of the poor. In case the rules provided that a man with an income of Rs. 12 a year was to be taxed, he would be richer than the man earning Rs. 6 a year. A man with an income of Rs. 12 could not be called the· poorest of the poor, but according to the rules it is the man with the minimum income of Rs. 200 who is taxed, and therefore to say that a man with an income of Rs. 200 a year is the poorest of the poor is quite wrong .. I wanted to bring it to the notice of the House.
Mr. President : The question is- " That: i• clause 2 of the Punjab Dis t_rict Boards (Ta.x· Validatin11) Bill after the
'word • schedule ' where it occurs for"_tlie second time the words • and the t-axes, if a.ny, the imposition of which was notified in notifications cancelled by notifications so specified • a.nd at the end of the same clause the wGrds ' or ~ntffthe dates'with effect from which the notifications in which their imposi
·tion was notified were cancelled, as the case ma.y be ' be Inserted."
The motion was carried.
(Before Mr. President announced the decision, Pandit Nanak Chand· c asked :fcir a division and immediately .afterwards withdrew his claim .for'&, division.) · · · - . . - _
1505· lrHE PUNJAB DISTRiCT BOARDS (TAX~VALIDATING) :SILL.
ELECTION TO +HE STANDING FINANCE COMMITTEE.
1Mr.,f.r.-ideut: The Council will now proceed to elect a member 'for the Standing Finance Committee. Two nomination papers . !!ave been ireoeived-
(1) Of Rao Bahadue Captain Rao Balbir Singh: proposed _by Rai Bahadur Lala Sewak Ram; and seconded by SardB Ujjal Singh;
(2)J0f.Oaptain ~a.1'.~al' ~ikru,tda,r IJ:ayat Khan: .proposed by Sardu Habib Ullah ; .snd seconded by Bai Sshib Cha.ndhri Chhotu Ram.
Voting papers will now be distributed among non-official members .. Aa .only on& oa.miidate is to be elected the menibers will please affix a . oroH mark against tile name of the member for whom they wish to recotd tlieir -vote1~ Members are wa.rned that the writing of anything else on thi·~ing
Mr.J. G. Beazley: Sir, lbeg to move- "That in the second column of the schedule to the Punjab Dist.riot Boards (Ta.x
Validating) Bill a~ainst 'Gurgaon' in the first column the words and figures 'as corrected by No. 11160, dated 29th April 1926' be added at the end . ."
The motion was carried . . Mr. J. G. Beazley: Sir, I beg to move-
" That in th~· second column of the schedule to the Punjab District Boards (Tax VaJidating) Bill against 'Kangra' in the ~t column the words and figures 'and No. 12527, dated 21st April 1926' be added at the end."
The motion was carried. Mr. President . The question is-
" That the schedule as amended stand part of the Bill."
The motion was carried. Mr. President: The question is-
"·That these be the title and the preamble to the Bill."
The motion was carried. Thecl:lon0,ur,.J,Je1~ . f'ir~z, Khan_) Noon : Sir I beg to move
"That the Punjab District Boards (Tax-Validating) Bill be passed."
The motion was carried.
Mr. President:' I may inform the honourable members of the .House -that a division should not be claimed lightly or unnecessarily .. Once tfoi .deeision of the Chair is challenged and division claimed, the Ohair is bound .to follow a certain procedure. Withdrawal of challenge will not be .allowed in future.
J;>an~t N~nak Chaq.d: Sir, may I axplain ....
Mr. President No explanation is called for.
Mr. President : The question is- " That clause 2 as amended stand part of the Bill,"
'I'he motion was carried.
[25TH Nova. 1927. PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. 1506
-pap91; will render it invalid. After the members have affixed a cross mark against one name they will put the voting paper in the ballot-box kept for the purpose. After the votes a::.3 recorded, the Secretary will count th3 ballot-papers and inform me of· the result which I will announce to the Council.
(At this stage Mr. President left the chair and the Depul;y President took his place.)
(After the members had recorded the votes and the Secretary had counted them).
Deputy President : The results of the election are- for Captain Ssrdar Sikandar Hayat Khan 23 votes • for Rao Bahadue Captain Rao Balbir Singh 21 ,,
I declare Captain Sardar Bikandar Hayat Khan, as duly elected. The Council then adjourned sine die.
ELECTION 'IO 'IBE STANDING FINANCE COMMITTED. 1507
i ..
79:1
727
1803 1365
1188-89 1029 1189
1412-13
818--19 1071
1885-37
921-22
1896
1197
1115
1138
1080 1816
727-28, 898
1880
ABDUL HAMID KHAN, CHAUHDRI- Question re departmental punishments awarded by -
Circle Registrar .ABDUL QADIR, SHAIKH, SIR-
Motion for adjournment re communal riots at Multan Oath of office Resolution re control of the sale of artificial ghi
.ABOHAR BRANCH- _Qnestion re - Sirhind Canal ·
ABOLITION- Question re - of Divisional Commi.ssionerships Question re - of monopoly of running taxies on the Tala·
gang-Anjia road ABOWAL EXCISE OASE-
Question re - ACCIDENTS-
Question re - in factories and mills ACCOUNTS-
Question re -- of the Grey Cana.I, Ferozepore .. Question re audit of - of the Grey Canal Department
. Question Te regulation of -Bill ACCUSED-
Question re letting - on bail ACT(S)-
Question re communal representation in police force -, Lahore Cantonment
Question re prevention c fcmelty to animals - Question re prosecutions under the Indian Factories - •• Question re village sanitation and public management :..... Question re workmen's compensation -
ACTUALS OF EXPENDITURE Question re - or receipt for 1926-27
ACTUALS OF RECEIPT- Question re - or expenditure for 1926-27
A.
PUNJAB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Vol. X-B.
OF THE DEBATES
TU
INDEX
-.,.~;
'
999--. ~17'
188$
1176.111''' 1209'
lffl;.~ 188&4Hr) ,.,
744-45, H1.S· -1088
. 'll~ 1886-S'f
744·
· .. t.~:;~·. ~~{'
•· ·I l088t~ 980,- ·984-Sif
1886-86, 1888"
... ,922,: H'
• ~ "!. • ': :·:· 79.8"!9~. • ... 780-82, 7-94-97- •. 1260-61,1461-~-·
., ·12.'3~86! .- . 898-94, 98~·
1060
1014
126~ 1083-84'
1S92.-9S- 99.2;
740:.
PAGES. 1289 1006·
1290-
768, 1146-47"
ADDITIONAL POLICE- . Question re Hindu representation in -, Multan
Question 1'e - force, Labore ADMINISTRATTON-
Question re - of Chiniot Municipal Committee ADMINISTRATION-
Of Justice Grant ADMISSION---- ..
Quelftion:,:,~ +foit.& ·Government · educational institutions on 'eommuual basis
Question re - of mem hers of backward classes to Central Training College
Question re - to the Agrcultural College, Lyallpur Question re - to the Normal Classes, Jhang community
wise Question re - to training institutions
ADIILTS-;- Qnesti:o~ re schools for -
APV:EBTISEMENTS- _ ~ti~tion re Goverrurient. ~
A~A~ HAQ, CHAUDHRI-- Miscellaneous (Transferred) Grant ~Qlicp. _grant .. . . Punjab Land Revenue (Amendment) Bill J.>v,njab Municipal (Execut.iv.e Oflieer-},Bill Resolution re release of political prisoners l;tesolution re revision of pay of clerical staff
AGE~ .. r Qu~ion re - ete., of prisoners flogged in Montgomery
'··Jhll . . . ' . . • . . . • • . AG~JA~LTURE(~LJ- . . . . . ..
Qttest1on re admission to the - College, Lyallpur QJ,e5tion re - College, Lyallpur . . · . • • .
. , ~ -. ,- ' . .. ~ . .. ' ... . .. ~ . . : . '' .
q_=.r~;~ C6llege~ .Le.yllpur ~d Engin~ Colleg~: QJi~stion re - Engineer • . ,. • .• Question re - fa.nil in the Ksngre District •• Question re - indebtedness . . . • ., v- ; • , • • • • •
Q.p.emion re appointment of the· officiating Director of Q:r:i.e$tion re appointments to th.a BJJ.p.erior - service .• Qiiestjon re communal rt\p.f Pij~Jltatjon ia ~ department. .••.. Qtlertidn 1'e declaration of Brahmans as ........ tribes - .·· ,,., -. Qu~tion re differentiation between Sa.ya.de and Brahmans
'in: their - stattls • . • , . Qu,eation re affect of seepage on - land • :· • , .. ,~ Qb~ion. re facilities to Za.mindats for making ~ imple-
~ente . . . . ' r,~ ~<·rq •.· :-,A,>; i:l·;:-.-:_.., .·,.,·
Question re fee concessions to 'students of - tribes •• Question re Lala Arja.n Das, Personal Aesistarit to -:Minister
for~
INDEX.
_____ ......,. .. _ "'"'."'"·"" ., .
1059-51>
1~1 1318-
1072.
'i 1274, . _1043.
1217·19•
919'
1178-7'.>'
..
1086-87
ma
728·
1456-57
915-
1174-
800, 1150·
754-olY- 1270,
785-86· 1269· 750,
1092-98,
1082088,.. 1181-82, 1886·
1274
PAGES.
,.
Qt,e~t:ion re well-boring by - Engineer, Lyallpur AGRICULTURE-
Grant AGRICULTURISTS-
Q'uestion re - and the Education Department Question re - in the Judicial service Question re - in public service . Question re grant of concession of half fees to - Question re reservation of scholarships for certain -
AHA!J.lAS- . Question re rent on account of - in Jalalpur Pirwala
AHMAD KHAN, KHURSHAID- Question re - research scholar . . . •
AHMAD YAR KHAN, DAULATANA, MIAN Resolution re action taken by Government on resolutions
passed and cuts carried by the Legislative Council AlaLGARHI GATE-
Qa.estion re - Wazirbad AK'ALI(S)-
Que~tii:m re gra.nf of jagirs for assisting Government against - agitation
ALLEGATlONS- . . . . Question re - against Cha.udhri Faiz AU, Tahsil(W,·
· 8:irsa. .•.• Question re - of ' Zamindar ' against Swami Da.yanand
Sara.swa.ti ALLOWANOE-
Question re - to Zaildars. I . • • ' ••
~ion re hill---·to Stenographers •• Qu~io~ re travellmg ...;;.... of members and Vice-President ~''bf'District Boards ••
AMERICAN MISSION ·HIGH SCHOOL- Question re -, Sialkot •.
AMRITSAR-PATHANKOT ROAD Qq~~5>~ re -
ANDAMA:NS- . . Qtieetion re remission of senteneee of martial law prisoners
' - 'DOW in - . , , . • • ANDERSON, SIR GEORGE-
Resolution re introduction of oompnlsory physiceJ train- , ~g in schools and Colleges ; . '; · • • • •
ANaI,0-VERNAOULAR MIDDLE SOHOOL- Qµe~tk>~ re - for Klorekot ••
ANIMALS- · Question re death of - due to hoemorrhagio septioemia
,.:;-,,, .. -, : .,>,I·
AGJ:llCUL'.IIURE(AL)-coNcLUDED. Question re Sardar Labh Singh, Associate Professor
of--, •. ·
VoL, X.-B.] - INDEX.
1175
1013 1176 887
_ 1290-Ql 1047·48
970-72, 988~84 985-86 1819 1276
1404-06 1204
1202-08
1406 id§il'
1896-99 1049 1182.
1007
1264
1408-09
88;5 1278
1278
1104 1105
1018-14
1208-09
1884
1069 982
PAGES • . ANIMALS-CONCLUDED.
Question re prohibition of slaughter of certain kinds of-
Question re restriction on slaughter of - Question re slaughter of - and sale of meat in Jagadhri .. Question re treatment of - at the Veterinary College.
Lahore .. .ANJUMAN KHUDDAM-UD-DIN
Question re action against - . .ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE CHAIR
Election of Deputy President Panel of Chairmen .•
.APPEAL(S)- Question re petitions of -- and revisions in the Court of
Commissioner, Multan Question re right of - under the Government of India Act Question re right of - by members of Provincial Civil
Service . . · . .APPLICANTS-
Question re treatment of - for foreign passports by Lam· bardars and the Police
.APPLICATION{S)- Question re - for copies of judicial records Question re - for passport to foreign countries Question re - of Primary School teachers
.APPOINTMENT(S)- Question re - in Chiniot Municipality Question re - in Education Services , Question re - in the Provincial Educational Service Question re - in she Subordinate Educational Service .•
·Question re - of demobilised officers · ·Question re - of demobilised educated combatant-youths ·Question re - of Extra Assistant Commissioners and Sub-
J udges . • · -Question re - of a Hindu Jat· as Inspector of Police Question re - of an Indian Deputy Secretary, Revenue
Department -Question re - of officers of the Punjab to Government
of India, Political Department ·Question re - of the officiating Director of Agriculture .• ·Question re -of Provincial Civil Service Officers to listed
posts · Question re - of V'accina.to:ts ,Question re - to the Superior Agricultural Service ·Question re new - in the Provincial and Subordinate
Education Service .. -Question re power of Ministers regarding - and dismis
sals -Question re reservation of - under the Government· of
India Act
INDEX. [VoL. X.-B.
.... "" ~·. "''. ....... , .. _. ... ~ .,,.. ·:· "~· .. ~:·"~'-.'.·• •.;.'•,'"{,'•'· •, ··~ ~ . .
0 1358
1123-24 '1124
730 1122-28, 1124
1071
1111-12
1082-88, 1181-82, 1386
1210
1299 1361
1304-05
1071
1200-01
833 1024
884
834 1179-80
118Q
1141
1046-47
918-14
1210 844
·~
1388
PAGES.
ASSOCIATION(S)- Question re list of Government servants punished for
forming a Union or - Question re Punjab Patwaris and Kammgos-: Question re Temperance - ... Question re Unions or - of Government servants
ASTBURY, MR. A. R. Oath of office
ATTENDANCE- Quastion re-:-- of clerks on holidays Question re ..:.... of Medical Collage students in private
family wards
..
Question re offensive and inflmmatory - in the Press ARTIFICIAL GHI-
Question re - ARTILLERY PRAOTICE"'-
Question re -'-·in ilaqa Kandi ASHTON MR., H. F.-
Oath of office ASSAULTS-
Question re murderous - on Hindus · ASSESSMEN'.U-
Question re revenue - in Lahore urban area ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT(S)-'
Question re - of Jail.. Question re candidates for the posts of - of Jails
ASSISTANT SURGEONS----. Question re - in Mayo Hospital
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR Quostion re 8. Labh Singh -, Agricultural College,
Lyallpur
Question re J agirdars and - Question re licenses under the - ••
ARMS LICENSES Question re - Question re - to Muslims in Rohtak District .• Question re confiscation of - of certain Pathans
ARRANGEMENTS- Question re - for Patwaris attending 'I'ahsil head-quarters
ARREST- Question re - of Dr. Bakhshish Singh
ARTICLES-
ARJAN DAS, LALA~ Question re....;.., Personal Assistant to_Minister for Agrieul-
. ture · · ARMS ACT-
Question re exemption of the sword from the operations ot the-
IND:&X;
·'846;
. '1196-97'
.; 1860
1034-S& '756,
1293: 1880-
1215-16-
1046-47.
98S,
849-50, 852
mo,
1100.
rn79•
1221 1269,
1372.,
1316 10041
1008-04.
PAGES.
·[Vo.L. X-B ..
···~····· ...
...
. • ...
I !
13ACKWARD CLASSES- _ . Question re admission of members of - to Central Train~.
ing College · · · · · •.. BACKWARD COM:MUNITIES
Question rfr--0 '
BACKWARD NESS-. Question re _:__ of Hissar, ete., districts in education of
girls BAD HIS- - Question re - living in Kangra District BAHAWALPUR" DIVISIO'.N- '.
. Question re Muslim representation in the office of Superin- tending Engineer, Third - . . . . . . . . . . :
BAIL- - .· Question re circular restricting or prohibiting granting
of- Question re let'ting accused on ~. • . .
BAJWAT ILAQA- . . Question re -:-~ in the Sialkot District
.BAKHSHISH SlNGH, DR.- Question re arrest of - ..
-BALDEO SINGH, CHA UDHRI Resolution re release of political prisoners Resolution re remission of land revenue in certain· tracts
of the .Robtak, etc., dfotricts .. · · BALMIK ·c'HUHRAS-
Question re representation of -.- .. BAN--- . . . . . . . . . Question re ~ on the_. (~~um ~f seve!&l · Pnnjabis froin ...
abroad .. .. • . , • · • . . .. • • . · , . BANASPATI GHJ-
Qriestion re~· ;BANDEMATRAM CASE ... Question re Ra.i Sahib Lsla Jamna' bas Ve'l'8US '_ BAR·ROOM- .
Question re .~ at Panipat · . . . Question re ~7" in Garh,~liankar :· ...
a:
AUDIT- Question re - of the accounts of the Grey Canal .Depa;rt_- ..
m~ . . . AUSHADALIYAS-
Question re indigenous - and Matabs Question re Vedic and Unani _: and Matabs
AUTAll SINGH,' SARDAR.:.... . . Question re election of · - to Small Town Committee,
Te.ndlianwa.16 · + · •
lNDEX.
r~-c-- ...---··· - .. --~:-·'.·- ··~':".>:""''""·!-···-·.·.-··-·"·-.····· .• ! ;
., c'l
89cl
fi89
.· 1029 BIRTHS AND DEATHS-
• : Question re Chaukidara and registration of -,.
:BISHAN SINGH, SARDAR- Oath of office
~BOARD NIGHT' "SCHOOL~ Question re Municipal ....: Amtitllar City
fll. ',
soeos 1471-1506
1258-62, 1461- _.71, . ':
808-06, 1232- 57. ·
. ·- · 808, 1232 802-08
1270 727-28, 898
Punjab Muniqipal (Executive Officer) - ..
Punjab Tenai{cy- (Amendment) - Sikh Gurdwa~s (Amendment) -- Question re Money Lenders ~- .. _ _ .. . . __ Qu_estion re regulation o( .accounts -;-;
1215
1299
1279
780-81
1287
•. ·972, 1050, 1302, 1865.
BENEFICENT DEPARTMENTS- Question re selection of zails for concentration of the
activities of·-=- BHA1IBA DAM SCHEME-
Question re .....: · BHATU-FATEHABAD-JAKHAL RAILWAY-
Question re -· · . . · · BHEHA GOVERNMENT HIGH SCHOOL
Question re --: ". BHIMBER NA!,A-:-
Question re bridge over·- on the Gujrat-Kunjah road
·BJLL(S)- . . . . . , · Court Fees {~unjab A~endment)-;-;- Punjab District Boards (Tax Validating)___; .. Punjab Lsnd , Revenue. . (Amendn;wnt) -,,,,. ...
1475.-70 1508-06 1258--55 1827-29
885-57, 865
781
910-11 BARDA FROSHI
Question Te - . BARRON, MR. C. A.-
Resolution re distribution of income derived from resin to the Zamindar proprietors of the Shamilat Forests in the Kangra District
BASTIS- Question re model - ..
BEAZLEY, 1fR. J. G.- Point of order re power of Council to deal with Punjab
District Boards (Tax Validating) Bill Punjab District Boards (Tax Validating) Bill Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer)· Bill .. Resolution re control of the sale of artificial ghi
BEGAR Question re - ·
PAGES.
Voi .. X-~.J
..
...
. 1201 1200, 1367
1096 901-02
1314-15
1108
'990 1223
744
1176-77
1049 uso~ss 1205·.06
1'215
1308
1115
•
1135
1037·38
1808
1391
1057-59, 1064- 66.
847
1308
..
Question re - BOOK(S)-
Question re - entitled ' History of Sikh Gurus and the -religion of Guru Nanak '
Question re - entitled 'Maharishi of the 19th century' •• . .Question re.oontrsct for't.he publication of-:- prepared by
the Education Department Question re publication of -
. Question re Reporter on -- ' 1BOVIN'E CATTLE- .
Question re slaughter of . - BOYS-
Question re scholarships fer - ofthe depressed classes Question re statistics regarding height and weight of - ...
13RAIIMANS- Qnestion re Declaration of - as sgricnlturel tribes Question re differentiation· between Sayads and - in their
agricultural . status BRANCH DISPENSARIES-
- . .Question re_ Muslim representation in · :BRIBERY ENQUIRY COMMITTEE-
Queetion re report of the Punjab - BRIDGES-
Question re - on Rajba.hahs on Moga.-K'ot Kapura road •• ,Question re - over Bhimber Nala on the Gujrat-K.unjah
· · road ....
BOGUS MEDICAL DEGREES Question re -
BOGUS MEDICAL DIPLO~fAS . Question re ....:....
BOILER INSPECTOR Question re Muslim _:...
·Question re removal of - from membership of Board of Examining Engineers
BOMB CASE-
.. 1187-88,1307-09 1309
. 1308
'PAGES.
[VoL. X-B.
··'·'.'·"·""''~~~
BOARD OP EXAMINI:N"G ENGINEERS . Question re- . ·Question re Muslim Engineers and the -
-Question re Muslim representation on the - .. (~ucst.ion re removal of. Boiler Inspector from member-
ship of- · BOARD OF MEDICINE
Question re - BOARDING HOUSE-
Question re liberty to offer prayers in - Government College, Multan ·
BODH RAJ, LALA- Resolution re revision of pay of clerical staff .•
INDEX.
·. _::.;;
921·22 1080 1316 903 920
1040 1812 1082.
1291, 1316
1381
1()25
1377 1382
724·26 978 978
1297
1199 1022
1371-72
1111
1223~24
741 1364
845
915 744 721
CANAL(S)- Question re Abohar Branch, Sirhind - Question re accounts of the Grey-, Ferozepore Question re Audit of the accounts of Grey - department
. Question re - and revenue amalgamation •. · Question re - scheme 'for Pind Dadan Khan
Question re closure of Lower Bari Doab - .. Question re communal representation in the clerical
establishment of Lower Chenab- Question re communal representation on the staff of the
Upper Bari Doab - Circle .. Question re complaints against the Superintendent of
Grey- .. Question re complaints of cultivators on 11·L. Montgomery
- division against a - officer Question re distribution of - water to Khanewai Divi
sion Question re grand trunk road from Khalsa College to -
bridge, Amritsar Question re .. Kitchen - Question re Lala Des Raj, Sub-Overseer, Burala Division,
Lower Cbenab - .. Question re Mandia in the Lower Jhelum - Colony Question re monthly - closures on the Lower Jhelum -
Colony .. Question re new - for Western Jhang and Muzaffarga.rh .. Question reopening of side roads along - hanks to public
traffic Question re opening of Sirhind - •.. Question re outlets for - water, to district board, Ferose
pore
c.
BUFF ALO(ES) Question re -· balls Queetion re . maintenance charges and yield of milk of
cows and- BUILDING(S)-
Question re - grant, for prinaary schools Question re -,- for the residence of the punitive police,
Kala. Khatai Question re decorations of tahsil - Question re demolition of an ancient -, oie., Akaligarhi
Gate in Wazira.ba.d BULLOCK CART-
Question re fa.re of - BUTA SINGH, SARDAR-
Oath of office
INDEX. V:oL~ x.aj
· 907 1104 1108
1105
.1117-18, .1205
1175
1271
902 832
9'20-21
1200 1044-45
1008-10, ion 1303 1803 1304
1802
· 1300 1300 1303
1361
904 1211-14
1025 1317-18
1812
1427
1s11~12
•• 1379-80 . ..,,
[VOL. X-B.
CANAL(S)-coNCLUDED- . . Question re outlets on the Makdoom Rashid Distribu-
: · tary on the Sidhn&i- · . . . . Question re permission to Taheildars to utilize - and
Public Works Department rest-houses . • · .. Question re posting of Muslim - officers for Dipalpur
Division.. · . . . . . . . . Question re refusal by -: officers to extend irrigation on
the Sirsa Branch . . . . . . . . · Question re removal of- earth by the - department Question re stoppage of - . . · .. Question re Upper Soha.g Inundation -· Question re vacancies in the clerical establishment of the
· Lower Chenab - . . · .<JAKDIDATES- ·:_Question re. - for the posts of Assistant Superintendents
of Jails .. ,CANTONMEKT--
Question re Ambala - Board . Question re expenses on. education in Lahore--; . 'Question re ininrovemsnf of education in Lahore
Question re improvement of water supply in Lahore Question re lease of the Lahore - municipal Iand by a
nominated member. . · · . Question re Muslim representation in Rawalpindi -
board . Question re Rawalpindi =>. board ..
. Question re schools in Lahore - ... CAPITAL PUNISHMENT-- . 'Qnestion re - · CARTOON- ..
. Question re - in Hisaar-i-Islam, Lahore CASES-
Question re ~ of non-co-operators Question re - tried by Honorary Magistrates Question re excise - ..
.. ·Question re strength of High Court Judges and. disposal ·· of- .
CASTES- . . ; Question re names of - debarred from entering Govern-
ment Service ·CAT'i'LE-- · · ,
·.: .Question re Governmenn+-. farm, Hissar . ', Question re land tilled by plough - .
Question re . slaughter of bovlne+> {liTTLE BREEDING- :· · Question re - . · · CATTLE FAIRS- ::· Qu()Stion re - ..
I
INDEX. 10
......... ··
- ' 1030':.81
·1286-87
1412-13 1394
979, 980
-1298
1048-49
141::l-14
. 1010
119'2-98
- 925-26 1029 1073
· 1255-56 1334-35
817-80
1441-45
1039-40
1121
1269 1267-68
834, 10S5
1120, 1206
1320
PAGBB.
u
Question re - CHRISTIAN (S)-
Question ~e - representation on Municipal Committees .CINEMAS- - Question re children and - DIROLE REGISTRAR-
Question re departmental punishments awarded by Chaudhri Abdul Hamid Khan, - •• -
-- Question re number of suspensions by the ....,..:., Shahpur .. Question re Sarda.r Iqbal' Singh, -, Co-operative Societies
CIRCULAR~ - Question re - prohibiting, or restricting granting of bail , Question re -- regarding educational officers and private ', publications ,
CIVIL ASSISTANT SURGEONS- Question re ~ , • ~-
CIVIL COURTS- - Question re money suits in - • • , ,
..
Question re - Question re - and registration of births and deaths
ilJHHAKICHANNEL- Question re diversion of the - .•
t'HHO'fU RAM, RAI SAHIB, CHAUDHRI- Punja b Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill Resolution re control of the sale of 'artificial ghi Resolution re filling of posts by open competitive examine-
tion Resolution re utilisation of Government of India's remis
sion for levelling down land revenue 'CHOLERA-
Question re Municipal Committees and Police or - OHAUKIDARA TAX-
- Question re - CHA UKIDARS-
CATTLE L_IFTING Question re -
CATTLE SLAUGHTER- - Question re _____: at Tuh&na · ·
CENSUS-- Question re - of ploughs
CENTRAL TRAINING COLLEGE- Question re admission of members of backward classes
to- Question re -
CERTIBICATES- Question re power of Deputy Commissioner, Kangra to
issue road------'.. CHA UKIDARA CHARGES-
INDEX~
1878
1'09$;
738
1404
1094
1278:
1820-21 117S
808, 1158·56
1193
1812 10'27-28
1813 1812
1111 ~
1111-12 740 787
1016-17
977-78, 1011· 18.
1074-75; 1076- 77.
1077
1040 ,978
PAGES.
Question re motor fares charged by - CLOSURE(S)-
: Q1,1estion re ~ of Lower Bari Doab Canal .. Question re monthly Canal - on the Lower Jhelum Canal
,Qolony • • . . . ..
CLIVE TRANSPORT CO. :Question re - , Pathe.nkot
CIVIL HOSPIT:AL Question re-, Amritsar
CIVIL JUDGES- Question re special training in mercantile law and pro
cedure to- CIVIL JUDICIAL BRANCH-
Question re - of the provincial service CIVIL PENSIONER&- ·
Question re - CIVIL SECRETARIAT-
. Question re employment of Bhai Uttam Singh in - CIVIL SERVICE-
Question re right of appeal by members of Provincial - CIVIL SUPERINTENDENTS-
Question re - of Jails Question re non-co-operation of Jailors and Assistant
Jsilors with - :QIVIL WORKS (TRANSFERRED) GRANT- CLASSIFICATION-
Question re of maize as fodder crops CLERICAL ESTABLISHMENT-
Question re communal representation in the - of Lower Chena b Canal
Question re Irrigation - Question re transfers in the - in the Lower Chonab West
Circle Qn~tion re vacancies in the - of the Lower Chensb Canal
CLERICAL STAFF-'- Question re - Deputy Commissioner's office, Amritsar ..
CLERK(S)- . Question re attendance of - on holidays . Question re - in the Deputy Commissioner's office, Rohtak Question re recruitment for - posts Question re recruitment of - for the· Hydro Eleorie
Department ·etffi'ICAL ASSISTANTS-
Question re -'-- Kiri.g Eldward Medical College ..
. .)
1115
1276-
1038-34
1208-09' 1120-21
1428·25 1267~68- 977-78
1040-41 1044
1159-00, 1225
1377 1226
1384-85 982-83
978-
1891
11()8..09
1047
1269
988 1033- 1107
li72-
1886
1269 .• 984-85, 1088-84,
1885-86, 1388
1039'
PAGBB.
Question re Agricultural - , Lyallpur and Engineering- ·Rasul
Question re Central Training - .. Question re Clinical Assist.ant, Kings Edward Medical Questicn re - in Montgomery District Question re - of Indian Medicines Question re fracas between Hindu and Muslim students of
Intermediate - , Hoshiarpur .• Question re grant trunk road from Khalsa - to Canal
Bridge, Amritsar Question re holidays in the Intermediate - .. Question re House Surgeon, Veterinary - , Lahore
· Question re Intermediate - Question re Intermediate - in the Shahpur District Question re liberty to offer prayers in Boarding House,
Government - , Multan Question re Muslim representation in the various Inter
mediate - Question re opening an Intermediate -, in Jullundur
City Question re opening of Junior Anglo-Vernacular training
classes i:a Government Intermediate-, Rohta.k Question re Professors in the Government Intermedi- ·
ate - .. Question re Professors or teachers in Intermediate - .. Question re reporter on books in Government - , Lahore .. Question re results of Intermediate Examination fot Gov-
ernment and D. A.-V. - · Question re S. Labh Singh, Associate Professor Agri
.. cultural -, Lyallpur Qtiestion re treatment of animals at the Veterinary -,
. Lahore .. Question re V eterina.ry - ; Lahore
COLONY- Question re Military grants in Nili Bar -
COMBATANT YOUTHS- Qaestion re appointment of dfflllObilised educated - . ~
COMMissroN- Question re - to enquire into complaint'! against head-
masters ..
COLLECTION- Question re - of revenue in tahsils Dipalpur and Okara .•
00Ltli1GE(S)- · Question re admission of members of backward clssses to
Central Training - Quest.ion re Agricultural - , Lyallpur
:l
• 1
1290
974 1099 1121
1814
· 917-18 1892 1295 1170 1010 1092
7 54, 1004-05 1167-69 1365-66
1171
1092
1206 1010
839-40 837
1088 1806-07
1167 1807 909 909
1227·28 1220-21
· 1110 1112-18
1100-01
1042-48
885
1265
PAGES,
(VOL, X-B.
OOMMISSIONER~S}- Que3tion re memorials of Stenographers to ~ Question re petitions of appeals and revision in the Court
of - , Multan . . Question re power of a Minister to over-rule a .,-- or a bead
of department <JOMMITTEE(S )-
. Question re administration of Chiniot . Municipal ~ Question re appearance qf the names .of the Education
Department officers in books passed by the Text-Book- Question re Chiniot Municipal - . . . . Question re Christian representation on Municipal - , . Question re communal representation in the Text-Book -
staff . . 'Question re construction of shops by Wazirabad Municipal
- without proper sanction .. · Question re general elections, Multan Municipal -
·Question re grant-in-aid to Hissar Municipal - for water- works
Question re Hindu representation on Kasur Municipal Question re income of Municipal - under certain heads .. 'Question re Jalalpaz.Pirwala - .. Question .Ye Kasur Munioipal=-- ..
·-Question re Kasur Municipal - and enquiry commission Question re Lahore Municipal - .. Question re memorial of .t,he shopkeeprs - of Lyallpur
District .. ·Question re Mr. Fasl-i-Husain, Vice-President of Jalalpur
Pirwala- . Question re motor lorries licensed by the Moga Munici-
pal- .. 'Question re Municipal - and Police or Cha.ukida.ri oharges Question re Municipal - and Small Towns 'Question re Municipal -, Bhiwani Question re Municipal -, Ohiniot -Question re l\f~cipaJ -, Kartarpur Question re Municipal -, Kasur ,Question re Municipal -, Khanna. ,Question re Mu,.nieipal -, Rewa.ri Question re Municipal-, Sirsa ..
·Question re Muslim representation in Municipal and Small Town·- · · ·
Question re nominations to Chiniot Municipal ,_ ' Qhe;ition r~ nominations to small town ~ ,Question re official members of small town- .• ·Question re President, Chiniot Municipal - and execution ' of n:;w works
INDEX~
1032 1178, 1315-16
1267 1814
~1032 ..
1811 929-80, 1114
1303 1293 1267
989 969
1886-87
1312 1036
928 927-28
1082·38
1107 120
1201
1296 1289-90
975 756
.• 1089-90,1091~92 835
1109 915-16
902, 928-24 9'20, 1293-94
1170
1096 1298
846-47 1188
752-58 1191
1180-88
PAGES.
u
nears Question re - · in the Police force Question re -in Police Poree Act, Lahore Cantonment .• Question re - ·in the Police Staff of the Eastern Bange .• Question re ~ 'in Provincial Services Questio.:1 re - ip. the Public Works Department, Buildings
and Roads Branch · .... Question re - in the Services .• Question re -)n subordinate education service Question re - in the Text-Book Committee staff -Question re --;-. on the st\ff of Upp.er Bari Dosb Canal
Ciro le
COMMITTEE(S)-CONCLUDED- Question ,.e printing of the proceedings of the Punjab
Text-Book - Question re Punjab .Jails Enquiry -
· Question re Punjab :golice - report Question re Punjab Unemployment - Question re Rawalpindi Municipal - Question re report of the ~ on unemployment Question re report of the Punjab Bribery Enquiry - .• Question ,re restriction of t~rm of membership-of ex-ojfiaio
members of small town - Question re Secretary, Chiniot Munieipal=-. Quest.ion re Secretary, Text-Book - Question re small town -, Dasuha and octroi-tsx Question re small town=-«, Jalalpur Pirwala .. Question re small town - of Jaranwsla Question re small town -, Zaffarwal Question re Stationery for Munieipalc-=, Wazirabad Question re Text-Book - Question re unemployment - .. Question re Viee-President, Municipal -, Kasur
COMMUNAL BASIS- . Question re posting of Inspectors and, Deputy Inspectors
of Schools on - COM.\WNA.L DISTUitBANOES~
Question r- ordinance for the suppression of - COMMUNAL REPRESENTATION-
Question re - among Deputy and Assistant Deputy Inspectors of Schools .
Question re - among Tahsildars .. Question re~ in Agricultural Department .. Question re ~ in the Clerical Establishment of Lower
Chena b Cana l Question re - in the Education Department Question re - in the Fornst Department Question re - in the Irrigation Department Question re - in. the Medical Department Question re - 'in tho offices of Superintending Engi-
INDEX. yor.,. X·JJ.J ·
[ Vot, X-~
PAGES.
898 1877
740.47 780 910
9()6c07
1!21
1403
1210 1072-73
1048
1115 1171 901
1291, 1316
1891 1381
1'301-02- 975,
I
1302
901
1280-84
1101-02
1164-65, 1172. 1188-89.
1175
- 977 1269,
983:
· 1180 1299-lSOO
782, 1426. ••
Question re - in Wazirabad Municipality .. CONCESSIONS~
Question re fee - to students of agricultural tribes Question re .grsnt of - of half fees to agriculturists
CONFERENCE- Question re panchayat -·
OONFI~CATION- _ ~ . . Question re - of arms license of certain Pa thans Question re~ of a Naqqarah from Khilafat Volunteers ••
- CONSOLIDATION- Question re -- of holdings
COMMUNAL RIOTS Question re - at La.bore Question re preventive measures for -
COMMUNICATION (S)- Question re - between Syedwala and Sh~ikhupura Question re inter-village -- Qu$tion re railway - in the Hisser District .. Question re road - in the Hissar District
COMMUNITIES- Question 1'e backwa.Td - ·
00:MMUTATION- Qbestion re -:-- of pensions
COMPENSATION- Question re - for land spoilt by seepage Questi-0n re - to the gadi of the Damtal temple Questionre - to owners of lands damaged by" Sem "
COMPLAINTS-- Question re commission to enquire into - against head-
masters .. Question re - against headmaster, High School, Kharore Question re - againat the police .. Question re - against the Superintendent of Grey Canals Question re - against Talib Husain, Zaildar, Garb Maha-
mja Question re - of cultivators against a Canal Officer Question re - of illegal extortion against police officers Question re register of -
COMPOU~DING- Question re - of an octroi case
COMPULSORY. EDUCATION-. Question re ~ in Jails
COMPULSORY PHYSICAL TRAINING Question re - in educational institutions
COMPULSORY PRIMARY EDUCATION Question re - in Zail Sarish
COMPULSORY PRIMARY EDUCATION ACT Question re -
. IN'DBX.
.• ,,:;;0 ··-· ·-· -- ·-·-----~--=-=-!,!!
1071 .•. ••
10.90-91
... 734
727
1268
839 . 806-08
..
844, 1114 910
1180.-81 1181
use COPYING EXAMINERS-,-
Question re - of Deputy Commissioner's office Question re scale of pay for -
CORRUPTIO:N- Question re .,....,... Question re punishment for -- in the Jail Department
COTT'ON- Question re price of - in March 1927
COTTON CROP- Question re __..:..
COUNCIL- _Question re nominated members of - and voting·
COUNCIL ELECTIONS-- Question re Honorary Magistm tes and - .•
·COURT FEES-(PUNJAB AMENDMENT) BILL COURT OF WARDS-
Question re salsa of lands by the - in Jalalp\11' Pirwala COWAN, MR. II.)!.,
Oath of office ...
t
745,46
COPIES- Question re applications for - of Judicial records 1013 Question re supply of - of Judicial records for private
987
842, 996 990
979-980
...
1412 990
1096
1160
917-18
1391 .· )209
1158
:CONSPIRACY--:-- Question re investigation into the alleged - to attack
Hindu leaders CONS'l1ABLE(S)-
Question re direct recruitment of head - Question re recruitment of - and head -
CONSTRUCTION- Question re - of shops by Wazira.bad municipal com·
mittee without .. proper sanction CON'fRACT~
Question re - for the publication of books prepared by the Education Department
CONVICT-- Question ·re Sucha Singh, - in Ferozepore Jail
CO-OPERATIVE DEPARTME)l'T- Question re examination of Sub-Inspector Class - Question re Inspectors in the -· •.
CO-OPERATIVE :MOVEME~'.J..r Question re rewards for services to -
CO-OPERATIVE SOCIETIES Question re - Question re - for depressed classes Question re Sardar Iqbal Singh, Circle Registrar,-:--:-
PAGES.
-
[ vor;: .x-a · PAGES.
.1017
1228-24 1426
905-06
808, 809 814-17
1878-79
. 975
888
1188
1287-88 1274
1805 1228 1865
1461 I 1881
1 l
1071 1
"' · 995
• 14U
.. · 936
.986
1292
1)AKHIL BACHH- Question re -
'DALHOUSIE-PaTHANKOT ROAD~ Question re restriction on motor vehicles plying in Kangra
.. Valley aud' on -. . . . .DALPAT SINGH, HONORARY CAP.A.TIN~ 8ARDAR .. BABADUR..:.: . . - Resoluton re: release 'Of political · prisoners . . ·. DAM-
.•· Question re "Y, as.Damtel, Birt and Mohtli · .•.. DAMAGE- __ .
_ Question re-;-; to ginning jaotories ~f. Chaudhri fi..he.r Singh· and others- by rain water . . . . . .
COW-KILLING- Qu~tion re - in Gurdaspur
cows- -· . Question Te maintenance. charges and yield of milk of -
and buffaloes .. Quest.ion re preservation of Hariana breed of - . Question re slaughter of - C'RAJK, MR. H. D.-
Amendment .of Standing Orders . .Motion for adjournment re communal riots at Multan .
CRIMINAL INVESTIGA'l'ION DEPAR'IMEKT Question re watching the movements of certain gentlemen
bv the - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE CODE--
Question re persons challaned under section 109 - CRIMINAL ~- RIBE-
Question re remission of tuition fees fol' children of - of Noor Mahram Bloches.
Question re removal of the names of Rajputa of village Rathaur from the register of -
CROP(S}- Question re failure of -in Saughar tahsil .. Question re water rate on oat -
CROWN LAKDJ!-- . Question re grant of - to flood affected villagers Question re grant of - to zamindars of village Abha
CRUP.LTY 'IO. ANIMALS- Question re Prevention of - Act
CRUMP, MR. R. H.- . Oath of office
CUI/l'IV A'IORS- . Question re complaints of :-- against .a Canal Officer
CURRIE, MR. M. M. L.- - .. Oath-of office. • •
n
·INDEX. is
lj
PAo~s .
1874-
1072-73,
Hl8
758-59 937
127:?
1113:
845 722·
1304
982:
1276'
1819'
142T
77 4. 7 5 t 788-98: 768, 1146
806, 807-08 1141-46
763 762 762 801
757-58, S26-27
1478 768, 1147 .I
1229·
: -14.66-57 1229-82.
- ..
Question re maintenance of a list of - DEMOKT.M:ORENOY, THE HONOURABLE SIR
GEOFFREY- Additional police for Lahore Administration- of Justice Grant .. Court Fees (Punjab Amendment) Bill Financial statement .. General Administration (Reserved) Grant
· Irrigation Grant Land Revenue Grant .. Miscellaneous ·(Reserved)· Grant .
· Motion for adjournment re communal riots at Muit.an Point of order re power of Council to deal with Punjab
District Beard (Tax -Validating)· Bill · Police Grant·
- · Refuads (Reserved) Grant Resolution re action taken by the Government on resoln
tions passed and cuts carried by the Legislative Council Resolution re -demand for grants ..
. DAMAGE-CONCLD. Question re - to lands and wells bv floods in the Jumna ••
DAMTAL TEMPLE- •. Question re compensation to the gadi of the -
DAULA'r RAM, BHATIA, MR.-- Question re supersession of Muslims by - ••
DAULA'l' RAM, KALIA, RAI BAHADUR, PANDIT- Amendment of Standing Oden, .. Resolution re release of political prisoners ••
DAYANAND ANGLO-VEDIC COLLEGE- Question re results of Interme.Iiate examination for Gov
ernment and -- DAY AN AND SARSWATI, SWAMI-
Question re allegations of the ' Zamindar ' against - •• DECORATIONS-
Question re - of tahsil buildings .. DEFENCE OF INDIA ACT -
• Question re political prisoners under the - DEFENCE OF INDIA TRIBUKAL
Question re prisoners convicted by the - DEG KALA--
Question re -;- DEMOBILISED EDUCATED COMBA'l1ANT YOUTHS
Question re appointment of -- DEMOBILISED OF11''ICERS--
Question re appointment of - DEMOBILIZED SOLDIERS-
•
I~DEX.
842 76fHH
1810
989 1889 888
1396 1111 740
1180-81 906
1050 1079
1809-10 1418·14
990 990
1221 990
• 1412-13
730-31
n74 1036 746 990 910
1016-17 1033 728
754.55
873-77 9390.:11
1348-49 759-62
PAGES.
[VoL. X-B.
, .. , .. -.·~----- .=.-.··
....
Resolution re filling of posts by open competitive examin- ation
Resolution re .release of political prisoners Resolution re utilisation of the Government of India's re
. mission for levelling down land revenue Statement re supplementary demands
J)EPAR'JMENT(S)-- Question re agriculturists and the Education - Question re a.ppe~rance ofthe names of the Education -
officers in books passed by the Text-Book Committee .. Question re communal 'representation in the Education - Question re Hindus in the Police - Question re Inspectors in the Co-operative -r-r-
Question re punishment for corruption in the Jail - Question re recruitment of clerks for the Hydro-Electric - ·Question re recruitment to various -, of Government Question re representation of Zamindars in the Excise - Question re selection of Znils for concentration of the acti-
vities of beneficent - DEPARTMENTAL PUNJSH}IEN'l'S-
Question re - awarded by Chaudhri Abdul Hamid Khan, Circle Registrar ..
DEPRESSED CLASSES- .Question re Co-operative Societies for - Question re -- in the Police Department Question re education of -- Question re scholarships for boys of the -
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER(S)- Question re change qf designation of - and Financial Com·
missioners Que1?tion re cl~rical staff of the office. of -, Amritsar
,.:Qu~tiim re clerks in - office, Rohtak ·Question re copying examiners of office of- .. ·Question . re -;-, Gurgaon Question re-:-~ J;µssar, and Sub-Divisional Officer, Sirsa •• ,Question re -, Kangra, and power to grant motor licenses Question re - Muslim Superintendents and Head Verna-
cular Clerks of office of - . Question re po.wer of -, Kangra, to issue road certificates Question re report of -. Hoshiarpur, re certain trouble
in ilaqa, Bei t Qu~t;i.pn re . Buperintendents of -:--: offices . . .
.. Question re Superintendent of office _of -. Kangra DEPUTY INSPECT ORS OF SCHOOLS-
Question re communal repreeentation &roong - Qµestion re Inspector and - of. Schools, Lahore Question re Personal Assistants to -
])E MON'rMORENCY, THE HONOURABLE SIR GEOFFER Y-CON OLD.
INDEX.
r-:·· '
. 1025 1176
.1'71-1506 9()8' 970 840 908
1371 nso, 1006 . ..
1091
.. ' ..
1264
H . .tS-99 10'9
7,fl .. 42 il1S5
. .
' ... ·
... ..
7a4-26
984 991
rssa 1-411-12
1081·8tl
1088 rooo lllO
126~65 •
' •.
1202-08
lS98
OOo.67
Question re --: regarding certain vacant sites in Jalalpur Pirwala . • : ,. • •
~DISI'.RIBUTION- Question re -.of canal water to Khanewal Division Que~ion re _ r: of grant-in-aid _
:DISTRICT BOARD. (S}:-" . HW1jab - (T.i\x Valida.t~i;ig)' Bill .. Question re - election draft rules Question re .--:-, Gujra.t.. • •. Question re - High Schools Question re Fatahabad - Vernacular Middle School •• Question re financial position of - ,Question re grants to ••
.....
Question re bogus medical - DLREOJ~OR OF AGRICULTURE
Question re appointment 'of the officiatillg -.. •• 'DISAFFEOTION-
Question re - among Muslims of Kamal .. DISBURSEM:ENT-
Question re __...:.. of Military Scholarships in Jhelum Ditttiet ·m:scIPLINARY ACTION-
Question re power of Ministers to take - ... 'DISMISSALS- .
Question re power of Ministers regarding appointments and - . • • ...
JjfSPENSARY(DllS),- Question Te - &t- liathaair • • •. Question re Muslim representation in Branch - Question re rural - .• Que11tion re Unani -
DISPUTE- . -
Question re - .... Questioa re Hosiery Sub-Committee of the Industries-« ..•
DIDVI SHARA~- . Questioa re release of · - and Gian Chand .•
'DHARAMSALA SHEIKH CHUHA.R- Question re removal of Guru Granth Sahib from -
DIPLOMAS-
DEPUTY PRESIDENT Election of -
DEPUTY SECRETAJ!lr- Question re appointment of an Ittdian,-Revooue Dt,pa-rt,..
ment DESECRATION-
Que&tion, re -,. of Gra.nth Sahib, Jhang DES RAJ, LALA-
. Question re __:'.., Sub-Overseer, Burala Division, · Lower Chana b Canal
DEVELOPMENT BOARD-
INDEX. "VoL. X-B.]
-
[ Vot. x.~s-. PAGES.
753= 1371-72
1217-1~ -
1189-90, 139& 1265-66
1428 97&
" 1890·
rn96·
1172-7&
848-
1073·
189&
1106:
974-
1867
90&
974
1392: I 1210-11 .J
991 99g;
77S-. 11.47-48
869-71
109B;
-- - ECONOMIC ENQUIRY-· . .. . Q~estion re ..:.: for Punjab ~
E .. '·
DISTRICT BOARD (S)- CONCLD. Question re Lahore - • Question re outlets for canal water to-, Ferozepore Question re travelling allowance of Members and Vice- ··
· Presidenta of- DISTRICT INSPECTORS OF SCHOOLS
. Question re -. . Question re - and Assistant - .. Question re posting of Muslim - of schools to Gujranwala Question re Sikh - • . .
DISTRICT OFFICERS---- .: Question re inspection of .ilaqa Kaehhi by DJSTRICT SCHOOL TOURNAMENTS--
Question re revival of - DISTURBANCES- .
Question re - in Montgomery Jail DITTA MAL-.. .
Question re Jaggat Bam, son of - DIVERSION- ..
Question re - of the Chha ki DIVISIONAL COMMISSIONERS:- .
Question re abolition of the posts of DIVISIONAL INSPECTOR- .
Question re Khan Baha.dur Shaikh Nur Ilahi,- DIVISIONAL OFFICES- .
Question re second clerks of - • J)QGRA RAJPX:TS-
Question re - DRAFT RULES- ·_: .Question re District Board Election DRAFTSMEN-
~,. Question re Public Works Department - and tracers DRAINAGE-.. .
Question re Jha.ng - system .•.. : Question re ~ scheme for. Shadiwal · . DRINKING WATER-
Question re· '--- in the Amba1a City Question re supply of -in villages Bhurtana, etc,
DULICHAND, CHAUDHRI- '. Additional Police, Lahore Police Grant-. , . Resolution re filling of posts by open competitive examin-
. . a.tion ... . • •. ,:DUSSERAH- ·
· Question re ..... land in Jalalpur Pirwala.
INDEX."
~ ..
D2 ....
117~ 1101-02.
109& 1137· 1189· 1221 109T' 1808 127~ 745
1808,
1007·
1028,
1297}98: ·1ss9
924 751
1815- 1085-
1084 799-1 ~··
1267 901,
1280-84- 1164-65, 1172"~ 1188.89.
1080-
974 · 1047~4S
970- 72, 988-84 "985-86
127~
. 1048-49'
1014 754-55·
PAGES.
Question re compulsory Primary - Aot in Wazirabad Municipality
Question re compulsory primary - in Zail Sarih Question re contract for the publication of books prepared
by the - Department . . .. . Question re -:- facilities for workmen in factories or mills •• Question re - institutions in Ami:itsar District · · Question re _:_ ·of depressed classes Question re """"' qualifications for public prosecutors· Question re expenses. on - in Lahore . Cantonment Question re facilities for - of girls in Hissar, ete., districts Question re female - in ·Mailsi tahsil' Question re improvement of - in Lahore Cantonment Question re new appointments in the Provincial and
Subordinate-·- Service . Question re new appointments made in the :--- Department
· by the Ministry of - · · •• Question re prepondrance .of. Mns_lims in the =: Depart·
ment at Bhaskar . . • • Question re Provincial - -Berviee Question re Publishers· of Boob of - Department Question re Punjab - Service • . .... Question re selection grade posts in · Provincial - Service· Question re Subordinate -'-- Service · Question re time-scale of- pay for · the. Suborclin~te
Service • • · , · •• EDUCATION (TRANSFERRED) GRANT . ••
EJ;)UCATION(AL)- Question re admission into Government~-- institutions
on communal basis Question re agriculturists and tho-Department . Question re appearance of the names of-:---- Department
officers in b"cioks passed by the Text-Book Committee •. Question re appointment in - service Question re appointments in the Provincial - Service Question re appointments in the Subordinate ..,___ Service .. Question re backwardness of Hisser, etc., districts in · -
of girls .. ' - Question re circular regasding - officers and private.
publications Question re communal representation in the - Depart
ment' .. • · Question re communal representation in Subordinate - ·
Service .. · · Question re compulsory - in Jails Question re compulsory , physical training in - institu
tions Question re Compulsory Primary - Act
INDEX. VoL. x..n .. J
11111 1009
lt9()8
1'308 . irni., mo
1'21'.
.- llS-7 -88) 1807, 1309
l~~J~22 H)94 li75
1006-07
863 1060-M, 1066~67.
l4i8~5t
991
1~95 748-49
782
96S.6'T 967
967 1506-07
908 839
1167
1372 1392
PAGES.
[VoL. x-u, .
••
..
·~ion re communal .1'.epresentat_icm m the. offioe of: Buperintending - • • • •
- t).uestion Te M uslim --- and ~'. Board of: E~htmg -.- .. _ .:CiJQaat!a? re }Jl}lsim representation 01;1 tb~ Bosrd. of E.* " . . 8.Illlillllg - . ; ,Question Te rEtwoval of Boiler Ins~n- ff-0mm®J.~hip.
of Board of .Examining: -- ~ ·"iiluestion re sc!\rcity of M~hanieal ---:- . . ,
_ ~uestion re wE;lJ-boring by, A~ultn™, -, L.YallP,'111' ••
· - tlesolution re·uM.ll11a,titH1 ot··GJ>vernmm1t of India's rsmis sion for levelling down lil.nd• revenue
mtl?LOYMENT_:_ - Question re assistanoe fpr st:udQnt11 l!aeking - , .
-,- Question re ....:..,. Qf. Bhai Ut.tam. Singh in the Punjab:Sec· retariat . . .,. .·
Question re ...:...: of retired Dlilit"cy offitlers a.a. Sub~lle~a· trsrs · ... · ··.,.
Question re qualifioations for - in Police Ioree • •. ENGINEER (S)::.,_ ..
(0:lestion Te Bpji,rd of Examining - .
',·.
ELECTION(S)- -Of Deputy President -To the Public Accounts Committee -To the Select Committee to consider the amendment
of Standing Orders .. -To the Standing Finance Committee Question re district board - draft rules Question r.e Honorary Ma.gistrates and. Council - · Question re Municipal - at Kasur Question re - 'of Sardar Autar Singh to Small Town Com·
mittee, 'I'andlianwsla Question re general - Multan Municipal Committee
ELECTRIFICATION- Question re -- of Bissar town .. Question re - of Lyallpur
ELEV ATOR- . Question re wheat - at Lyallpur . .
EMBEZZLEMENT~ Question re -- of, Afttbal.a, Municipal', foods ••
:EMERSON,. MR.- H. W.- Point of order re power of Council to deal with Punjab
District Boards (Ta:ll'. Validating) Bill Resolution re dtstributlon of income dbriv~d from resin to
the Zamindar proprietors of the Shamilat Forests in tho Kangra District
Resolution re reviM'>fi. otpay of cl1m~l· staff-:.
INDEX.
1115' ~l.
72S: ••
1187-88, 1307 •. 1309' 1809' 1008- ·
180S
1272:
1180-81. 1181
988: 1199-1200·
1272 1014
1412'
1203,
1'028:'
1116-17
·11124-25.
H80
11.67-69'
1180-SS:
1089'
1428-26:
. U66·67
PAGES.
.....
Question re Muslim Engineers and the Board of - Question re Muslim representation on the Board of - Question re removal of Boiler Inspector from membership
of Board of - EXCISE CASES -
Question re Abowal --:- . Question· re -
EXCISE DEPARTMENT- Question re representation of zamindars fu the -
'ENGINEERING. COLLEGE- ... Question re Agricultural College, Lyallpur, and-, Rasul..
ENGINEERING. SERVICEc- Question re reduction of subordinates in ..._.: •.
ENGLISH :MASTER- Question re Bhai Labh Singh, late .....,,, Gover:oment ,High
School, Babadurgarh ENGLISH LNIVERSITY-
Question re award of prize to female graduates to pul'Su& their studies in - . . • •
ENQUIRY- ·Question re - into the conduct of Police officers, Ludhiana Question re -- into the economic condition of the people df
the Punjab Question re - into the grievances ot Subordinate Govern·
ment servants ENQUIRY CO:MMISSION-
Question re Kasur Municipal Committee and - ENQUIHY COM}II'J'TRE-
Question re report of the Punjab Bribery - .. ESTIMA'rES-.. .
Question re - for pipe water-supply, Multan.. _ Question re variations between the - and actuals of
income and expenditure EXAMI~ATIO~-
Question re - of Sub-Inspector Class (Co-operative De. partment)
Question re Government schools and matriculation and school-leaving certificate -
Question re Hindi Text-Books for University - Question re Matriculation - Question re Matriculation and School Leaving Certificate - Question re results of Intermediate - for Government
College and D. A.-V. College · •• EXAMINERS-
Question re copying - of Deputy Commissioner's office .. Question re scale of pay for copying -
EXAMINING ENGINEERS- Question re Board of -
IND'EX. - Vor .. X.-~1
744
1358 1360 1860
1068 ·
1277
1085-86, 1086-87
·.l 1138-39
l137 1187
'!138
•
1407 1407-08
723, 1042
1803
1861 1.394 727
1404-06
727
1146
1410 1293, 1400
1292 833
[ yo~. ~.-B.
PAOlilS,
.i : ' .·. _.- ~ ~
FAJZ MUHAMMAD, SHAIKH- .', Resolution re -representation of Muslims in public services ~AKHAR-UD-DIN, MR.-
Question re nomination of - to Chiniot Municipality .FAMILY WARD S-c-
Question re attendance of Medical College students in private -· ·
., ,Question re - in Mayo Hospital for eyes, ete., cases '. ·· Question re Indian -, Mayo Hospital ".FARES-
Question re - of bullock cart 'L·-;
]'ACTORIES- Question re accidents in ~ and mills Question re educational facilities for workm .n in - or
mills Question re -· and mills
]'AUTORIES ACT- Question re prosecutions under the Indian -
.FAILURE OF CROPS- . Question re-· in the Saughar tahsil · · ·
.FAIZ ALI KHAN, CHAUDHRI- Question re -. 'l'ahsildar, Sirsa ..
F.,
EXOISE GRANT EXECUTIVE-, .
Question re members of - Council · •• Question re separation of judicial and ...:_ functions
EXEMPTION- Question re - from sword licenses Question re -.of the sword from the operation of the
Arms Act EXPENDITURE-
Question re actuals of receipt or - .for 1926-27. . EXPENSES-
. ', Question re - on education in Lahore Cantonment EXPENDITURE-
Question re - on Jail Enquiry Commission Question re - on night schools •• Question re ordinary - foi; 1926-27
EXTRA ASSISTANT OOMMISSIONER(S) Question re appointment of - and Sub-Judges Question re calculation of service of temporary additional
and sub. pre. tem. - . , ·Question re temporary Additiond - Question re transfer of Sub-Judges to the cadre of -
INDEX.
958-61
1485-39
977 1109
748
745
1023
1377
887
1045-46
1874
l~&-07
1896
. _; :JS7l
..
Question re award of prize to - to pursue their studies in English University
FE)IALE HOSPITAL-- Question re -, Amritsar
FEMALE JAIL-:- Question re Musssmmat Lechhya, prisoner in Lahore -
:FF]STIVAL- Question re Hola - at Bhahabad
:FEVER- Question re mortality from - in flood affected areas
FINANCE COMMITTEE-- Election to the Standing -
FINANCIAL COMMISSIONER- Question re change of designation of Deputy Commissioners
and - .. .FINANCIAL POSITION- .
Question re - of District Boards
Provincial Loa.UFJ and Advances Grant Punjab Land Revenue (Amendment) Bill Punjab Tenancy (Amendment) Bill Resolution re completion. and opening of the Sha.hpur
Canal Branch. Resolution re utilisation of Government of India's remis
sion for levelling down land revenue FEE(S)-
Qnestion re - concessions to students of Agricultural tribes
Question re remission of School - Question re tuition -
FEMALE EDUCATION- . Question re - in Mailsi tahsil
FEMALE GRADUATE.S-
Punjab . .1475, 1476, 1477
1491-94. 1228
.• 1258-60, 1463-68 1232
1146 1152
1092
929· 907
781-82
923
754
PA~EB.
. '
FARM- . Question re agricultural - in the Kangra district Question re Government Cattle -, Hissar Question re Kahuta -
:FAZAL AHMAD, MA ULVI Quastion re ~ and Lahore riots
:FAZILKA GOVERNMENT HIGH SCHOOL Question re -
.FAZL-I-HUSSAIN, MR.- Question re-Vice-President of Jalalpur Pirwala Committee
.f AZAL-I-HUSSAIN, THE HONOURABLE MIAN, SIR Irrigation Grant Miscellaneous (Reserved) Grant .. Point of order re power of Council to deal with
District Boards ('fax Validating) Bill.
~ QL: ·-~~-~J . ' . .
i
i' i
~ I i' I
I I
!
[VoL~ X.-B ..
PAGES.
·1400< 1141~46,
13-9'5-96-
881
1148--49' 799
798-99 1471, 1472-73,.
1478~1506 803, €04-05·
1232, 1255-57 ..
950-51, 1339-41
661-62
690-92· 1459-60· 802-03·
823-24 786·88·
1178-74
1374- 1305' j
1374 !
1227
1272-74
119$',
1027"
1135-3&
117&
1175
Resolution. 'le completion and opening of the Sbahpur Canal Branch ·
Resolution re control of the sale of arfificial ghi Resolution re distribution of income derived from resin to
the zsmindar proprietors of the Sha.mila,t forests in the Kangra district ..
Resolution re filling of posts by open competitive ex amination
Resolution re Unani and Ayurvedic systems of Medicine Sikh Gurdwaras (Amendment) Bill
FIROZ-UD-DIK KHAN, HANA.- Motion for adjournment re communal riots at Multan
- Police Grant :FLOGGING-
Question re -in Montgomery Jail :FLOODS--
Question re damage to lands and wells by - in Jurnna Question re grant of Crown lands to ~ affected villagers
FLOOD AFFECTED AREA&---- , Question re mortality from fever in - FLOODED AREAS -
Question re plight of zamindars in- - ,E\LOOD HAVOC-
Question re - in Ilaqa Beit f{)PD~R CROPS-
Question re classification of maize as - F()OD-
Question re arrangements for the ~ of Muslim and non }f:uslim prisoners in J~ils . • .
FOOD STUFFS-- Question re peiees of - and other lliCeB~ies of life
,O~E!GN COUNTRIES- Question re applications for passports to - . . ·
FOREIGN PASSPORTS- . ~ Question re treatment of applicants for - by lambardars
and the Police
FINANCIAL SECRETARY Question re Joint -
FINANCIAL Sf4TEMENT FIRE-
Question re ta~tion on the .sufferera of Rawalpindi FIRE ARMS--
Question re lie,epses of ---:- . FIROZ KHAN, NOON, THE HONOURABLE MALIK
Medical Grant . Medical and Public Health Grant Miscellaneous .(TJa11id~red) Grant Punjab District Boards (Tax Va.lidati:ng) Bill
Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill
INDlllX.
II!'"":~' -, ~ .... ·,. . .......
75&. 841 76~
76~
1392
1095
1333 938-81>
10a,9-60
12rn 1196-97
1883-
1071
1321-22: 106() 1g91
1367-71
1072-7~
1187
GADI--,.- Question re compensation to the - of the Damtal temple
GAMBLING- - Question re Satta -
GAMES- Question re rural - ..
GANGA RAM, BAI SAHIB, LALA Resolution re control of the sale of artificial ghi Resolution re revision of pay of Clerical staff
GARH MAHARAJA- Question re complaint against Talib Hussain, Zaildar -,
GAZETTED OFFICERS- Question re classification of Police Inspectors as - Question re - at Hissar
GENERAL ADMINISTRATION .(RESERVED)-GRANT GENERAL ADMINISTRATION (TRANSFERRED-:- GRA~T . GENERAL ELECTIONS~
Question re - Multan Municipal Committee GEOGRAPHY OF THE PUNJAB-- .
Question re - . GHANI, MR., :M.A. -
R.esolution re control of the sale of artificial ghi Resolution re release of political prisoners Resolution re revision of pay of clerical staff
GHI- Question re artificial - Question re Banaspa.ti -
GIAN CHAND-- Question re release of Devi Sharan and -
GILL. COL. c: A.- . · . Oath of office .
G.
FOREST (S)- Question re Mmlim .community in the - -department 92&: Question re royalty for the stones . collected from ·the
Shamilat - of Kangra district 1 na:; FRACAS-
Question re --:. between Hindu and Muslim students of In- termediate College, H©Bhia.rpur 1159-66, 122S-:
FREE QUARTERS- , Question re - for Government servants . US&.
FREE TRAVELLING~ Question re - of Police officials in motor lorries HlS-
FRUIT SPEOI!J;IST- Question re millet and - 1083, 1182.
FUNDS- Question re embezzlement of Ambala Municipal - 991.
[ Vot. X1-B..
PAGES.
t292
1279
1279 1188-84
1184-86
1486-91. 1495
929 1823-24
1500-01 1246-47 1331-32
1014 1311
1285-86 1299
1130 754
1136 ·.I
922 907 9,22
1136 743
1298
988
901 1184~35 732-33
728 897-98
-GINNING FACTORIES- Question re damage to - of Chaudhri Sher Singh and others by· rain water
(HRLS- Question re backwardness of Hissar, ete., distriots in edu
cation of - Question re facilities for the education of-in Hisssr, ete.,
districts . -0:IRLS SCHOOL~
Question re Principal, Victoria.-, Lahore Question re qualifications of Mistresses of Victoria -,
Lahore -OOKUL CHAND, NA.RANG, DR.- · ·
Point of order re power of Council to deal with Punjab District Boards (Tax Validating) Bill
·GOORKHA INHABITANTS- Question re - of the Ka.ngra district
·GOPAL DAS, LALA- Resolution re control of the sale of artificial ghi
-OOPI CHAND, BHARGA VA, DR.- Punjab District Boards (Tax Validating) Bill Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill Resolution re control of the sale of artificial ghi
-OOVERNME NT- Question re admission into-, education al institutions on
communal basis Question re bar to Rawal community entering-, service Question re Bhai Labh Singh, late Junior English Master,
- High School, Bahadurgarh Question re Bhera - High School Question re enquiry into the grievances of subordinate -
servants -Question re Fazilka - High School Question re free quarters for - servants
·Question re - advertisements Question re - cattle farm, Hissar -Question re - Normal School, Hoshiarpur Question re - or State-aided schools -Question re -· scholarships -Question re - School, Bhakkar •• ·Question re --- Schools, and Matriculation and School
Leaving Certificate Examination -Question re - Schools in· Jullundur division and Jhatka
controversy ,Question re - State scholarship -Question re - Tannery at Shahdara · , -Question re grant of jagirs for assisting - against Akali
agitation · ,Question re Headmaster - High School, Lahore
~.O INDEX.·
i877
1862
1265
1406-07
1408-09 1278
925 1122-28, 1124
1194
759-802 1080-81
748 1129-30
1286 922-28
1272
848 1083 1107
1819-20
1819
1891
1128-24
1175
1269 1297 988
PAO EB.
81
Questi in re increase in the number of trained - on the cadres of Superintendents, etc., of jails
~RAND TRUNK ROAD- Question rJ - from Khalsa College to Canal .bridge,
:. .. Axoritsa.r
GOVERNMENT-OONOLUDED. Qusetion re Headmaster of - Railway 'I'eehnieal School,
Lahore · Question re inspection of - Railway Technical School,
Lahore .. Question re liberty to offer prayers in boarding house-,
College, Multan . . . Question re list of'-- servants punished for forming a Union
or Association Questi~m re names of castes debarred from · entering -
service .. Question re opening of Junior Anglo-Vernacular Training
classes in- Intermediate College, Rohtak Question re preponderance of Muslims in the - Offices at
Bhakksr Question re professors in - Intermediate College ,Question re promotions of teachers in the Bhera - High
School Question re recruitment for the various departments of - Question re Reporter on Books of - College, Lahore Question re results of Intermediate examination for - and
D. A.-V. Colleges -Question re retention by the teaching staff of their family
members in - quarters -Question re salaries of - servants ·Question re saluting- servants Question re stipends in the - Normal School, Hoshiarpur ,Question re teachers in - Normal School, Hoshiarpur,
Jullundur Question re Unions or Associations of - servants Question re use of - motor lorries for private business
-GOVERNMENT DEMANDS FOR SUPPLEMENTARY AND ADDITIONAL GRA.NTS, 1927-28
-OOVERNMEN'f HOSIERY INS'l'ITUTE~ Question re -, Ludhiana
,GO"VERNMENT OF INDIA- Question re appointment of Punjab Officers to- Political
Department GOVERNMENT OF INDIA ACT-
Question re reservation of appointments under~ Question re right of appeal under -
GOVERNOR- Question re right of audience of Secretary or a head of a
Department with - -GRADUATES-
INDEX. VP~·- X.-B.].
924
1130 1085-
919
1393
1195~9&
1104
1080, 1316
1291, 1816
729·
1176 1179, 1190-91
1414-23·
1295· 1311 1269
1374 931
833, 1165 1120, 1206·
1165 1083~34··
74.l'
10'79" 1269 1305-- 1228
723· 1042
[ VoL. X.-B •.
Question re - GREY CANAL(S)-
Question re accounts of -, Ferozepore Question re audit of the accounts of - department Question re complaints against the Superintendent of -
GBIEVANCES-- · Q\lestion re enquiry into the - of Subordinate Government
servants .. Question re - of Kamal Public against local officers
GUJRAT BHIMBER ROAD- Qnestion re -
GULAB SINGH AND SONS, MUNSHI : ... Question re - .. GURDWARA PRISONERS--
Question re release of - · Question re Sar-dar Teja Singh and Sardar Kartar Singh, -
Question re - to Hissar rr.unieipal committee for water works
Question re - to Sambrial Islamia A. -V. Middle School Question re schools receiving -
GR.ANTEES- Question re Military -
GBANTH SAHIB- - Qllestion re desecration of -, Jhang GRATUITY-
Question re receipt of - by Police servants GRAZING COMMON --
G.RAl!T(S)- Question 1 e Building - for primary schools· Question re Deputy Commissioner, Kangra., and power to
- motor licenses .. Question re - of concession of half fees to agriculturists Question re=: of Crown Isnds to flood affected villagers Question re - of Crown lands to zamindars of village Abba Question re - of Jagirs for assisting Government against
Akali agitation Question re - of. land in Nili Bar Question re ~ of land in Nili Bar to zamindars of certain
water- logged villages Question re - of land to petty holders in the Sun Ilaqa Question re - of proprietary rights in Lyallpur Question re - to District Boards .. Question re - to Muslim Rajput High School, Kalanaur Question re Military - in the Nili Bar Colony
GRANT-IN-AID- Question re distribution of - Question re -
INDEX. 82
~-------
~. 89-9. 925, 1049-5!), 119~
1891 1110-16; 11'57;
1209
831 898, 941
1438·8;
858
775-76 721
1498-1500
1269 '119~71
1498 1258~57 1138'0;31
892·
1004
761~70 800 800
HUB
l1\l6-07
1201
lS94
1410-U
1411-12
PAGES,
38
:HEAD CONSTABLE(S)- Qtiestion re direct rec~uitm'ent of - Question re Qutab Din=-. of Police, Ludhiana Question re reeruitment of con"1twbl~ and -
. ·-
.HABIB ULLAH; SARDAR Additiona.l police, Lahore Agriculture Grant Industries Grant
:H..EMORRHAGIC SEPTIC.£MIA Question re death of animals due to -
HA.fHiMS- Question re Vaids and -
:ffi\LF FEES- Question re gr.mt of concession of - to agriculturists
_HANS RAJ, RAIZADA Additional Police, Lahore Punjab District Boards (Tax Validating) Bill Punjab Municipal (Bxeeutive Officer) Bill ..
- ltesolution re control of the sale of artificial ghi Resolution re license for plying motor cars and lorries
between Pathankot and Dalhousie :EARBAKHSH ·~INGH, SABDAR
Additional Police, Lahore O~th of office · Punjab District Boards (Tax V.a.lidating) Bill Resolution re distribution of income derived from resin to
the Zamindar proprietors of the Shamilat. Forests in the Ka.ngra · district . _, . . . •
Resolution re ufilisation of Government of India's remission for levelling ·down land revenue · ·
:.ErARI SINGH, 'SABDAR- Oath of office · Resolution re release of political prisoners -
:HASIAT TAX- Question re --: .
H:
-OURU GQBIND SINGH JI- Question re scurrilous attack on - in " Light ''
-OURU GRANTH SAIIIB--'- Question re removal of=-from Dharamsala Sheikh Chuhar
.Ql;JRU NANAK- Question re book entitled 'History of Sikh Gurus and the
religion of ~' , ·OYA~ SAGAR, MR.-
Question re -, e.r,-J'ailor -GYAN SINGH, CHAUDHRI~
Question re -; Inspector of Schools, Laflore Division
• INDEX. 'VoL. X.·B. J
·-- ------ ---- ---- -- -- __ __J
926-27" 1199-1200·
I . I
1 I
1048~
J J
919'·
.1285-86 129~ 1171 840 754.
1165 897-98
1810 84S-; 988
1408- 1093-94.
1271
1309-10·
975-76~. ll70-7l
1819-20 isio
984:
909-10·
1115, .1171
897-9S;
1265,
1260--
PAGES.
[ Voi.. X.·B~
H:J:GHER STUDY- Question -te - and research in Europe·
HILL ALLOWANCE- . Question re - etc., to Stenographers
HINDI- .· Question re .......:.. primary schools in Bissar district
Question re - Text Books for University examinations .
HIGH COURT..:...: . Question re appointment of an Indian as Registrar,
Lahore - ·· Question re creation of original side to the ...... at Lahore Question re s~i:ength of - . Judges and disposal of cases
HIGH SCHOO~ Question re American Mission - Sialkot . .. Question re Bhai Labh Singh, later Junior English Master,
· · Government--, Bahadurgarh Question re Bhsra Government -:- Question re complaint against Headmaster -., Kharar Question re district board - Question re Fasilka Government -
· -Question re grant to Muslim Rajpur ~, Kalanaur ; Question re Headmaster, Government -, Lahore Question re Muslim Headmaster for Kasur - Question re promotions of teachersin Bhera Government- ·
· Question re provincialisation of -
llEAD OF A DEPARTMENT- Question re power of a Minister to ever-rule a Commis-.
done: or a - Question re right of audience of Secretary or - with
Governor · HEADMASTER(S)--:- , . Question re commission to enquire into complaints
· against - · Que~tion re complaint against - High School, Kharar .. · Question re...:.. Government High School, Lahore •. Question re - of Government Railway Technical School,
Lahore •• · Question re Muslim - for Kasur High School
. Question re Muslim - Question re...:... of the Middle School, Bangpur, Muze.ffar·
·. garb • . . . · · . . · • . · .. HEAD VERNaCULAR CL'.ERKS-
. Question re Muslims and - of De~ut"y Commissioner's · offices- •. • • •. • • •. ·· ·
HIGH CLASSES- . Question re start,ing of -- in schools .
INDEX. • 84
~----,- _._ _, .. ,-~·-·· _ •. _ , ., ..
881:82, 1021, . · 1094, 1872·78·
.882. .. 889:
.: 129J.9'J,
782; 1426-·
1111-1~ 1226
.. 1201
1045-46·
1200·
1112-
721 936-87"
128~· 1018-21
746, 914-15'
1170· 1197"
1l5S; 1200-01.
98T.
899
1159-60 r: ' 1225
1204
1031-32
927"
PAGES.
Question re cases triea by - Question re -.-. and Council elections. • • . , Question re removal of Honorary Lt. Haji Sher Bahadur
· .Khan. from -the post of. - • • • • • •..
• . . .
Question re - Deputy and Assistant Deputy Inspectors · of Schools
Question re ....__ representation in the Additional Police, Multan
Question re - representation in Lahore Municipality .. Question re - representation in the Police .. Question re - representation on Kasur Municipal Com-
mittee , Question re injustice to - teachers Question re investigation into the alleged conspiracy to
attack - leaders Question re murderous assaults on -
HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR- . Question ·re Superintendent in the office of Private Sec
reta.ry to - HIRA SINGH, SARDAR
Oath of office ... Resolution re. release of _political prisoners HISSAR-I-ISLAM-
Question re c~:,;toon _in -, Lahore . . . '' THE HISTORY OF THE SIKH GURUS AND THE
RELIGIOJS. OF GURU NANAK"- Question re book entitled -
ROLA FESTIVAL- Question re --;-; at Shahabad
HOLDINGS- Question re Consolidation of - ••
HOLIDAYS~. Question re attendance of clerks on - Question re - in the Intermediate College, Hoshiarpur
HONORARY MAGISTRATES- Question re -
HINDI PRACHARNl SABHA Question re -
HINDI TEACHERS- Question re - in Vernacular Middle Schools in Ambala
HINDU(S)- · Question re appointment of a - Jat as Inspector of Police Question re articles in newspapers advocating Hie boycott
of - by Muslims Question re fracas between- and Muslim students of
Intermediate College, Hoshiarpur
INDEX. VoL. X.-B.]
.•
1'408
l~l, 1408
1208 1'102
744-45
1010
1801'-02
1226
12'7!-74
1284
lOlfl-17
7-28-24
1.261
1384-85
in
1304-0.5 Hl78 1377 1086
992
1080L8{ 1081
1081-82
.75(5
108'1
PAo~s.
[-VoL. x..s,
. . .
.DlAQA BEIT- ~stion re flsod ha voe in -
.ILLEGAL EXTORTION- Question re oomplaint of - - against Police oftlceni
: ILLNESS-'-- Question re report of - of certain Punjabi prisoners .,.
TNCOME- Question re - of municipal committees, under certain
litta.ds ... · •• .INCOME AND EXPENDITURE- ·
Qu.o8tfon re v.a.riations between the estimatea and actue.is of -
INCONVENIENCE- Question re - to, oort1'in.Railway pammgers- at Panipat
JNDEBTEDNESS- .. ·Q,01C.ioo.' ,re ~gricultural -:- ltll»ftN(S}- . •
Question re 1\1\Pointment. .of an - t\S Regiswa.r,. LM\0re -., . High Court. . . • . . ·~ ••
Question re ap.pointment,uf ...;...,as Sl()t'elfliries, ato., in. the, Seo:rtltaria.t · • • . , • • . • • ·•
I .
HORSE ALLOV{ANCE- Question re - to Police Inspectors
HOSIERY EXPERT- . Question re-
'HOSIERY INS'rl'r U'fE- . Quostio.i re Go~ernmerit -, Ludhiana Question re machinery for - at Ludhiana Question re purchase of stores for· the -
HOSIERY SUB~COMMTr'fEE- . Queation re - of the Industries Development Board HOSPITAL- .
Question re a'ssistant surgeons in Mayo - Question re Civil -, Amritsar .. Question re Female -, Amritsar .• Question re )fontal -, La.hare •.
"HOUSES- Question re measures to prevent crumbling of
Sambrial · HOUSE SURGEON-
Question re --, Veterinary College, Lahore RUGH VERNACULAR MIDDLE SCHOOL - · Question re -, Khangarh · 1IYDRO-ELECTRIO SCHEME-
Question re :\fandi - HYDRO-ELEO'rRIC DEPARTMENT~
Question re recruitment of clerkit_ for -
INDEX.
-·-···--~
•
11-97'
98fi:toti>
1204 1106,07"
75(>.
... 918-14
1108, 1280:
1307· l284 99.i
.SQO,.ll~~
..
1098:
1402',
l:004-
999-1008-
1294,
84&
.• ..
1188-39
1860
·1044,
1406
1399\
140'Jl
PAGES.
,,- .. ,.,.
,.
INDIAN CIVIL SERVIC~ - . . . Qu~tion re ~ and' Proviifoi~I Civil ~~rt~ce . - . ' . · , ' .: ~ . Question Te recruitment of Provincial Civu Service ~$cers
· to - · · · •• Qne~tion re retirement of mem hers of~ on prciportionat~ . pensions : · . . ·. · . · . • - .
INDIAN FACTORIES ACT- . · .. Question re prosecutions under the - . INDIAN FAMILY WARDS-
·. Question re ~. Mayo Hospital .. INDIAN MEDICINE~
Question re College of ....:...... •. INDIAN SCHOOL OF MINES-
. Question re prospects for Punjabi students qua.liiymg at · the -, Dhsnabad • . ~ .•
INDIANISATION- Question re -'-- of Services
INDIGENOUS MEDICAL INBTITUTIONS Question re -
. J,NDIGENOUS MEDIC.AL TREATMENT- Qnestion re -=- • . • . · _ ••
INDIGENOUS SY~TEMS OF MED'ICI~ . Question Te __;,
INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL- Question re Zanana. -, ·Lahore •.
INDUSTRY (IES}- _ Question re Board of Examining Engineers, D'€lpad;ment
of- Question re s'a'gar and oil - Question re Hosiery Sub-Committee of the - Develop·
ment Board· "4. INDUSTRIES G.RANT ... • ... lW!llfT MORTALITY-, .
Question re - JNFL.AMMATOBY ARTICLES
(lttestion re ofrensive and·- in the Press INifX:BITANTS!-
Q.u.eetion re Gborkba. -· of the. Kangra districl INJ.USTICE- . . , .
Question re ....:. 'to, Hindu teachers,, .• II INQILAB"- ..
Question re ......., of Lahore ffiBPECTOR(S)
Qnestion re appointment of a Hindu Jat as - ot Pollce Question re Cbattdhri Gyan Singh - of Schools, :tahore
Division • • · · - · Question Te classification of Police .;..;;;..· as ggietted offi~
~ • ,' (II
.. UfN:X. ~.·~1
.... - .. ·
1272 780 ...
1159-60, 1225 1226
982-SS 1040-41
978 1108~09
1047 1269
983 lOSS ...
1390
1808 976
755-56
1319·
1428 1390
1107 1308 1044
· SSS
.· 9~ · 1265~66 1189~90
1393
987 755 990 789
1190 1389 1106
,: . : . .. . :. - ~. PAGBS.
-
... Question re holidays in the - Question re -
- - Queation re ...:...: in the Montgomery district •• Question re - in the Shahpur district •• Que3tion re Mtrslim representation in the various - • , Question re opening of an - in Jullundur .
. Question re opgning of Junior Anglo-Vernacular Training· Classes in -. Rohta.k
Qu~ion re P+Qfessore in. Governme~t - Question re professors or teachers in -
INTERMEDIATE EXAMINATION Qnestion re results of-for G,1varnment College and D. A. V.
College ... INTER-VILLAGE COMMUNICATIONS-
Question re - ...
: .
i·
JNSJiECTOR ($)-coNOLD. . . Question re communal representation among Deputy-and.
Assistant Deputy - of Schools · · Question re District -and Assistant District - of Schools Question re District - of Schools .• Question re District - o ' Schools, Jha.ng
. Question re Hindu Deputy and Assistant .Deputy - of Schools .•
Question re horse allowance to P olice - Question re - in the Co-operative Department Question re ......:...· of Police· · Question re - of School11, Lahore Division .• Question re - and Deputy - of Schools, Lahore Division Question re Khan Bahadur Shaikh Nur Ilahi, Divisfonal Question re posting of~ and Deputy - of Schools on
communal basis Question re Muslim Boiler - .. Question re Muslim - or Schools Question re Personal Assistants to Deputy - of Sohools Question re p·o'l:lting of Muslim District - of Schools to
Gujranwala Question re reconciliation· of Nazir Hussain with Talib
Hussain through - of Police Question re removal of Boiler - from the membership of
the Board of Examining Engineers Question re Sikh District - of Schools Question re uniforms to Police - and Sub - Question re - of Government Railway Technical School,
·!if'La.hore .• · · · · INSPECTION__;.·
Question re - of ilaqa Kaobhi by District offioers INTERMEDIATE COLLEGE (S)- ..
Question re fraea.s betweee Hindu and Muslim students of~-. Hoshiarpur .•
38;:,
r"""'."--~ ..... ,. -- .... ' ... , ... .,,....,...,..., .. - .. ,,.
S!~ 1275-76 , j
l I I
1024 i 139! I
. ! 723
l17S~T4
1027 1~99
1s-g1 1820.:'21
9Jl 1172-78
E2
1271·
1811
1041-42 76·~·63,' 1146
8!1 1027-28 903-04
8S6 989
927-23
1313
1158
979,-80
9Ji
. 1s11-fs
sf:
•• ••
..
...
.JAGGAT RAM- Question re -. son of Ditta M~l, prisoner
. .JAGIR GRANrEE3- . Question re. military grantees and mi.lita.:y .:__
.JAGIRDAR3- . Question re - and Arm 1 Act .• Question re regranting the right of Tirni to -
:JAGIRS- .. Questbn re gra.nt of - for assisting GJveram3nt agciinit
Akali agitation •• -JAIL (S)- . ,
Question re age, etc., of prisoners flogged in Montgom9ry Question re arrangemsnts for the food of Muslim and lllll· · Muslim . prisoners in - . • • Question re Assistant Supsrintendent of ,- • • . •••.
· ·Question re candidates for the posts of AHis~a.n~ Suparin- tendent of ~ • • . . .
·.Q11e3tion re Civil Superintendents of - Qi1e3tion re compulsory edueation in -
.. -Q1101tion re disturbamas in M mtprxnry - ••.
I
p
J .
...
1NUNDATION CA.NA:L~. . . QA-estion re Upp.er Sohag - • • '. .,. .
1NYE8TIGATION-. ... . . _ . . . . . ; .· Q:i~ioµ re - into the aUe6ed OOD'l)ira.oy to a"a,k Hinda
leaders . ... . •. · .•••. · 1QBA.L SiNGH, SA.ROAR-.. . . . .
Q iestion re:-, Oirole Registrar, Ci>.i>pera\ive Sooietie1·;. LlR&CGATION- . . .
Q:.iEntion re ex:t:n;bn of _. on the Sir.n Branch QBstion re - branch m3m)undum NJ. 506!-.E.I., dlo~a:l
28th April 1926 Q:.103tim re - clerical establishmaut {Ja.e3tim re - facilities in the Hisssr district Q restion re - in Multan Q10.?tbn re machinery for - projects Qie3tion r3 Ma3lim om11:nunity in the - D1p1rtmsn~ •• Q.193fr)ll rs transfer of non-Gasested offiaers in ths-«
Daps-zmsnt Question re Upper Subordimtes (residue) in the Public
Worki Department - Branch ~IRR{GATION' GRANI' . . • ISL:\.MIA A.-V. MIDDLE SCffO()L
Question re grant-in-aid to Sambrial - :ISLAMIA SCHO()L-
Question re nomination of a. tsacher of - to the Chiniot Municipality
INDlt:X;'..
•a•"\','
1204·,
1105'
1S94
117S:
136();
1&61 1178~7·4,
136Z: 846
88.7 1862:'
1174 910
U6& 12_98·
1~-27 1361i 1027 1160
1299
PAGES •.
JAIL-(S)-CONCLD.- Q.qe~ion re expenditure on - Enquiry COHln:µiS.ion Question re flogging in Montgomery - Question re increase in the nullll1e11 o1 trained graduates ·
. · . on the cadres of Superintendents, ete., of - Question re - officials Q.1¥lstion re M1.1ssammat- Lacllhaya., prisoner· in Lahore-
female - ~uestion re prpgress of, - reforms • . Q,rnstion re prosecutions, of - prisoaesa in Montgomery - -
for rioting . , ~st_ion re punishment for corruption in -· Department Q.u~tion re punishment of officials in .. the - Department Question re Punjab - Enq.uiry Committee .. Question re Punjabi prisoners confined in - of other
»~vine es Question re reomisment. to _,.. Department- Qqestion re Sikh, prisoners in Burma· -.- . Question re Sucba. SiBgb, .coneiet, in Ferozepore -Qlltllltion re traj:t;1ing of graduates for aseistant .superiatend-
entship of - · JAILOR (Sj-
G}ti,estion re Mr. Gyan Sagar, ex-- Question re non-co-operation of - and Assistant - with
Civil Superi:m,en!ients. .l'~).f)NADAS, R.!l SAHIB LALA-
Question re - versus "Bande-Matram" Case., JAT-
Qoostion re appointment of a Hindu - as Inspector of Police • . ••
.1~KED BEEJ!- Question re -
~m;I{A- - Questicn re Gcverr ment Eehcols in Jullundur Division and
- controversy ~01 ~Jijf;,I BAT.A.I-.
Question re - 6SS, 1165- JC (;ENDEA SINGH, !HE HONODEABLE S.A:RDAR---
Agricnlture Gi;ant . 800~1i50 Civil Works (Transferred) Grant 1158> Excise Grant • • • . • • 114& General Administration (Transferred) Gmnt 'T6S
· :M.lj;cellaneoue '8eserved) Grant • . . 801'·02 , , l1~ticn fer adjcumment re eemmunal riots at Multan 1325
Provincial leans and .Advances (Transferred} Gr-ant •• - 80Z. :}leiunds (I'ransterred) Graut • , 1229' Il.eooluticn re control of sale of a.Mi£cial ghi • , 1800-84' :BernJuticn re .filling up o.t pests-by cpen ccml)etitive ex·
uwnation , • • 882-SS. ..• , __,, _
·ia11
. .
..
·I 1in-
11M 1ws-
·~1s~14: 121
l'l92~1
·102s:29
1!ill4.5
...
.. '121~.f')'
-1'390'
11Sl·8i .
..
1239
. .. . ,. .
l~~s.t, ·u11
. l ~~s.~ 14~0
.'fM 1ss:s9
-1~2~.
1-0lS "145-46
1270
..
. .
..
"KACHA ROAD...::.. Question re - from Bilaspur to Gopa.l Moohna.
KACHHI ILAQA- . Q~estion re inspection of - by district officers .KAHUTA FARM-
'Question re - .:KANGRA VALLEY-
Question re restHction on motor vehicles plying in - and, on· Dalhousie-Pathankot Boad •.•
·xANUNGOS- · Q',lestion re Punjab Petwaris and - A~socia.tion
.KANYA MAHA VIDYALA., SIKH- . Question re -, Ferozepore City .•
. llRAM DAD-· . Qu.estion re murder of~ of LJhg lrh Gjte, Amritsar
:;KA.i\TAR SINGH, BED!, 'BABA.- . 'Chth of office .•
KAt\TAR SINGII, SARDAR . Qiiastion re -; Gurdwara prisoner
.KA:SUR DISTR1Cr- · . . Qa.estion re crea.tibfi of ~
lKHA.L KI!CJDAl CHARGES- . Q11e3tion re ....:. . . •
.KiIA.L9A COLL:EG'E QaeJtion re Gr.ib:l'Truak lhad froni - to Canal Bridge,
Amritsar · ' · · • .. · ...
I . \
K.
...•
. .. . :JOIN.11 SELECT COMMITTEE-
'Qtlertion re tooommendl\tions of th~ - of p1'Hiamant regarding voting by oflioia.l mem bars ...
~UDGES- . . .. ·. Qu.e_stion re sttEJngth of High Court __;. and di rposal ·of eases
,.JUOIOIAL- . . . · Que,t,ion r: sepsrstion of - from executive fnnoHons · •• • ;1TJ1:lTOIAL BRANCH- ' . .
Question re - of the Provincial Service . Que,tion re Poli~e Mtd - oHforvice
-~UDiCIAL LOCK-UP.3- Question re - ·
,JUDICIAL RECORDS- Ques'tio:n re applications foi copies of -· •.• Question re supply of copies of - for private use
:JUDICIAL SERVICE- . Question re agriculturists in -
.,JUNIOR ANGLO-VERNACULAR TRA.1NING CLASSES Question re opening of - in Government Intermediate
.Oollege, Rohta.k · ••
·~.~ .. ).] ' .
1175·
1210·
1048-· 1874 1093- 1209·, 1042
1374. SSl
1£05-· :Ji:28' 11C4'
1288-,
sos.or 1Cf2-E3--
1161-t9, HE&
12.85-8~
836,,
1882:.
•• 977-78, 1011-13;
1852-M~ 1071
12G2 1299-810(}.
981·82-
l 0'24-21):.
PAGES.
· [Vor.,~ X-B-
LACEBYA, MUEE1AMMAT- Question re - prisoner in Lahore I emale Jail
LAMBARD.ARe- Question re relief to poor H,mindc.1s and - Question re treatment of q plicsnts ior foreign j assports
by~ and the i:olice LAND(S)-
(;luestion re compensation for - spoilt by seepage Question re compensation to owners of - damaged by
H Sem " Question re damage to - and wells by foods in the Jumna Question re Dussarsh - in Jalalpur Pirwala Question re effect of seepage on agricultural - Question re gunrt of - in the Kili Ber .Question re giant of - in Nili Ear to zsmindais of
certain water-logged villages • . •. Question re giant of - to petty holders in the Eun Ilaqa Question re grant of Crown - to flood affected villages Question re giant of Crown - to zamindais of village Al:l:a
, .Question re - tilled by plough cattle •.
L.ABH SINGH, BH.AI- <;,uestion re - late J unior English lf aster, C oveir ment
High School, Bahadurgarh •. L.ABR SINGH, :MR.-
Court-fees (Punjab Amenc'tnent) Bill L.ABH SINGH, E1ARDAR-
Question re - Associate Professor of Agriculture
L. Question re .......
.. EHARABA- Question 1e -
EBILAF.A.T Question re aeticn against- - newspaper for its allegation
against the Police Questicn re cc nfiscation of a naqqarah fnm- volunteers
KROL Kl.ARA TAW AN- . Question re -"
l:UNG, :MB. C. M.- . Resolutoin re -utilisation 'Of the Government of India's
remission for levelling · down land revenue Oath of office
KING EDW .ARD MEDICAL COLLEGE Questic n re Clinical .Assistants, -
KJBP.AL SINGH, S.ARD.AR- Question re rn:le of land to -
Kl'ICHEN CANAL-
INDEX.
· 1396~99 1408
.. 1115
.1394-95 1280
1079• 834 928
1078-79'
1079· 1292·
1195· 881
842 834'
1179-80 1180·
1196
1160-64 991
1206-07
·1302
Question re village ~ LICENSES- ·
Question re Arms - . Question re .A:nns - to Muslims in Rohtak District Question re confiscation of arms -·· of certain Pathsns Question re Deputy Commissioner, Kangra, and power to
grant motor - Question re exemption from sword - . Question re - for motor cars plying between Lahore and
Sheikhupura Question re __: of fire-arms Question re - to ply motor cars between Pathenkot and
Baijnath · Question re - under the Arms Act Question re motor - in the Kangra district .. Question re tenders for __:_ to ply motor cars ..
LIFE IMPRISONMENT-- . Question re - or transportation for life LILI.AN BOMH CASE- . .
Question re - LIQUOR SHOPS
Question re - Question re oi,ening of new -
LJSTED FOSTE- . Qt: estion re · _. l'..H ointment of Funir.cial Civil · Ee1vke -
· offieeis to - · Q uestion re tXClufo11 of tl.e I ost ofTr.der EHreta.1y from -
•• 1258-62, 1461-71 108& 1026
. 76~
1802 1426 110~
1090-91' 886 991
PAGES.
'48
LANDS- ··· Question re lease of the Labore Cantonment municipal -
by a. nominated member · ·· Question re partition of pasture -
· Question re pasture - · .. Question re sales of - by the Court of Wards in Jalalpur-
Pirwala · .. · · ~· . . . •. Question re sale of ~ to Sardar Kirpal Singh Question re squares of- to members of the Punjab Council
LAND REVENUE- Punja b - (Amendment)' Bill Question re - in Eangl:ar tahsil •.. Question re - in tbe s1:r:t:r:ur and I{l:ushab tahsils _
LAND REVENUE GRAt-;T LE.ASE-
Question re - by B nominated member of the Lebore Can- tonment Municip1,l land . . · .• .; · ••
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL-- Question re resolutions passed by the second - . ·· : . Question re squares of land to members of the Punjab -: Question re voters for the -
LEVEL CROSSING- Question re motor accident at the ...:....: near Verke.
LIBRARIES-
INDEX.
1081 939
898 882
881-82 ;' 839
1200,1867
745
12-23-24
1199
1879-80
. ~
1818
978
1312 . -72~26
1312
978-74
1040
1026 ·
1026
1172
1{)85
746
MACHINERY- Que3tion re - for Ho1iery Institute at Ludhiana Question re ·- for irrigation projects
MAGrn rRACY- Question re - proseeuting agency an i -
lfAGISTRATES- Qae3tion re eases tried by Honorary - Que,tion re Honorary - Qileltion-re Honorary - an I Con Mil elections
"' MA.TIA.RISEif OF THill Nf.NErEE'HH CRNI'URY " Question re book entitled -
MAILSI TAHSIL- . Question re female education in -
lfA.I~TEN ANOE CRARGES Question re - and yield of milk of cows and buffaloes
lf!tZE- Question re classification of - as folder crops
MA.Kf:IDOOM RA.SHID DIS1'RIBUJ1ARY-. · Question re otrtlets on - of the Sidhnai Canal
M.
LO!NS- Quastion re taf}avi -
J.-OCAL ALLOWANCE Questio.:i re -- topoliee Bub-Inspecters
LOCAL OFFICERS- · · ~11estio:i re grievanees of :mnMl public against -
.U)CALS- Qcrest(on re - of the Lyallpur district
LOOK-UP&- · ·· Q1esUon re Judioial -
LOliGARH GATE- Question re murder of Karam Dad of -, Amritsar
LOWER BARI DOAB CANAL- Question re closure of -
- :LOWER CHENAB CANAL- Questio:i re com-nunal reprssenta ~io1 in the clerical
esta blishment of - Questio:1. re Lala Dai Ba], Sub-Ov,m'}:r, Burala divisio'l, Questiou re vaeaneies in the clerical establishment of
the - '.LOWER CHENA.B WEST CIRCL"Hl-
Question re transfere in the clerical esta blishment in the - ..
LOWER JHffiUJM CANAL COLONY Question re msndis ju the -
98EJ
1014
978 849
. :1004 1000-04 ..
1072
H98·
1091
1004-@5 .1360 1-880
1358-60
1875-76
rsrs 945-4"6
ion-57
· 148,1,.$3
'799 80@, '1150
'978
1284
P.1.GBS.
Question re - MATA.BS-
Question re indigenous A. ushadaliyas and ~ .. Question re Vedic and U nani A. uskadalay,u and -
- :ltATRICULATION- Question re~ and School Leaving Certificate Examina»
tion .. · Question re Government Schools and - and School Le&~
ing Oertifioate Ruminations ..
MASS MEETING- Question re - of the Musalmans of Lahore
'MA.STER MOTA SINGH.:_ .
mans
Question re - or numbering of roadside trees :MARTIAL LAW PRISONERS-
Que.,;tion re - MATRICULATION EXAMINATION.:_
Qlfestion re - .YAYO HOSPIT'AL-
Question re Assistant Surgeons in - Question re Family Wards in - for eyes, atc., cases Question re Indian Family Wards - Question re Ram Saran Das Ward, -
MAYO, MISS- Questionre "Mother India. " by ,.__,
MAP- Question re Survey - of Jalalpur-Pirwala
.MARTIAL LAW PRISONERS- Question re remission of sentences of - now in Anda-
....• MANDI HYDRO-ELECTRIC SCHEME--
Question re ...:...:: "MANDIS
Question re - in the Lower Jhelum Cana.l Colony 1.tA.NOHAR LA.'L, 'UHE HONOURABLE, MR.
Education {Tr.a.nsferred) Groot Industries grant· Point of order' re power of Council to deal with Punjab
District Boards (Tax Validating) Bill Resolution re introduction of Compulsory Physical train
ing in Schools and Colleges .. -MAQBOOL MAHMOOD, MIR-
Additional Police, Lahore 764:-66 Motion for adjournment fe communal riots at Multan "756-'57, 809-12 Resolution re completion and opening of tba Sha.hplll'
Canal Branch MARKING-
742:
999-1C03;
84T 104~
1036-87 1294
1269' 1
1802 1 1410, 12~8
I 1268-64- I
! 1296
1278- 991
1217-1~
lC04-
1032-88:
1C87-88:: 1148-49'
1185·
1858: •. 977-78, 1011-18;
1187, 1806· 799,
1018-14'
1505 1247-4&
1481-S~-
PAGES ..
Question re communal representation in - .MEDICAL DIPLOMAS--
Question re bogus - .. MEDICAL GRANT :MEDICAL U\ STn. {;'l lONf:
Question re indigenous - MEDIC.AL SCHOOL-
Question re Amritsar - MEDIC.AL aRENI.MEN'!·-·
Question re indigenuous MEDICINE(B)-
Question re Board of - Question re College of Indian - Question re encouragement of Unani system of - Question re indigenous systems of-
MEMBER(S)- Question re admission of- of backward classes to Central
Training Col1ege · Question re lease of land of the Lahore cantonment munici-
pality by a nominated - Question re - of Executive Council Question re nominated ..:....: of the Council and voting Question re recommendations of the Joint Select Com·
mittee of Parliament regarding voting by official - •• Question re restriction of term of membership of ex-officio
- of Small Town Committees •. Question re right of appeal by - of Provincial Civil
Service • • . . · Question re sqnaree of land to - of the Punjab Council •• Question re travelling allowance of-:--- and Vi~e-Presidents
of District Boards
family
MAYA DAS, MR. E.- Punjab District Boards (Tax~Validating) Bill Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill Resolution re utilisation of the Government of India's re
mission fot levelling down land revenue •. MEAT-
Question re' Slaughter· of animals and sale of - in Jagadbri
MECHANIC.AL EKGINEEP.- Question re scarcity of - •.
MEDIC.AL A:KD PUBLIC HEAVI.H GRANT MEDICAL COLLEGE-
QU£stion re attendance of - students in private wards •.
Question re Clinical Assistants, King-Edward - MEDICAL DEGREES-
Question re bogus - •. :MEDICAL DEPAH'.LMENT-
.INDEX. 46
~--
1093
1228-24
1103·
1088, 1182'
.1138
1187 1187
739,
- 1211 90S:
1811' 909-10
119S: 740
1083-84-
729 1275-76-
1275-7&
1275-
74t
1171 1042-43-
108&
1093
PAGES~
41
-
Question re-' MILLET SPECIALIST . Question Te fruit and -
MILLe- Question re eccidents in Factories and - Question re educational facilities for workmen in Fac-
tories or - •. Question re Factories and -
MINES- Question re Prospects for Punjabi students qualifying at
the Indian School of ......... ~ Dhanabad , ,
cows
MEMORANDUM- Question re Irrigation Branch -, No. 5064-E. I., dated
28th April 1926 - MEMORIAL(S)- _ _
Question re - of the Shopkeepers Committee of Lyallpur District •• · · · · · ·
Question re ~ of Stenographers to Commissioners MENTAL HOSPITAL-
Qnestion re ---',"Lahore MERCANTILE LAW- .
Question re special training in - and procedure to Civil Judges •.
METALLED ROADS Question Te --'
MIDDLE SCBOOL- Question re Anglo· Vernacular - for Klosekot Question re Fatehabad District Board Vernacular - Quest.ion re grant-in-aid to Sambria.1 Islamia Anglo·
Vernacular - Question re Headmaster of-, Rangpnr, Muzaffargarh Question re - at Hatheair ·
_ Question re Primary and - MILITARY GRANTS-
Question re-in the Nili Bar Colony MILITARY GBANTEES-
Question re - Question re - and military jagir grantees
MILITARY JAGlR GRANTEES Question re Military grantees and -
MJLIT.ARY OF·FICERS- Question re Employment of retired -, as Sub-Registrars ..
MlLITARY SCHOLARSHIPE- Quest.iun re disbursement of - in Jhelum District
MILIT.ARTY TRIBEE- Question re -
MILK- Questi<,:n re maintenance charges and yield of
and 1:: uff aloes MILK SUPPLY-
_INDEX. VoL. Xi-B.J ·- .., __ .
• ..
1(V6L. X.~13. P.A.GU.
rsaa
1264 J~M--65
1iss
1023 ·so1~02, ll52
798 919
-1184-86
731
1-205-06
1~44
766-67, 798-94 . 80i t-498
isss-se
,sslJ '
' 83&-88 I 1068
1458-59
1 727-2S, 898, -1~70 • I
1~8&~81
978 '142
-167j
'905
..
.MONEY SUITS- Quest'ion re - in civil Co'll'Tts
.MONTIILY C.A.NAL CLOSURES- Question re - on th~ Lower Jhelum Canal Colony
·yoRT.A.LITY- Question re __:_ ' Question re - from fever in flood affected areas
.MOSQUES- Question re :music beiore -
• :I{JNISTEif FOR AGRICULTURE.- Question re IA !.'rjm 1'1Ml, ~S!Ufal !sliistant 'to - ......
_3'iNISTERS-- · · . . . Question rs power of - regarding •ppointmen" .a.nd dis· missals . . . ~~tion re power of - to take disolt>lin.aey ~ction ••
- --~ion re power of '- 't'o ~-Yale a. ·Commissioner or·• Head of a. Department
]1UNISTRY OF EDUCATION- Question re new appointments made' in the Eduoation
Department by the - .• :.MISCELLANEOUS (RESERVED) GR:ANT .• - . .MISCELLANEOUS (TRANSFERRED) GRANT J,USSION HIGH- SCHOOL- .
Question re American -, Bialkot .MISTRESSES_,._·
· Question re qualifications of - of Victoria. Girls Bohool, Lahore ..
. MODEL BASTIS Qa-estion re -'-
J.tOO A-K OTKAPURA ROAD Question re bridges on rajbahas on -
MOHALLA GURDIT SINGH- -Question re sanitary improvements to -, Lahore
.MORAN LAL, LALA Additional Police, Lahore
.lli!tdella.noous ·(Reserved) ·Grant .Punjab District Boards (Ta.x Validating) Bill .Re80lution re 'Control of th·e sale of aitffioia.l g'hi .Resolution 're distribution of income derived from resin
- to the Zamindar proprietors ofthe Bhamil&t torests in the the Kangra district ..
·nesolution re :filling of posts by open competitive exami· nation .• ·, · ·
'Beaolution 're opening of a. Medical "School for· training female Sub-Assistant Surgeons
_ ~e~olution re U'na.'ni snd Ayurvedic systems ol medicine .• :MONEY-LENDERS BILL- . .
Question re -
-·
827·-2S 782-86,~
•• 808·04, 1248-oS-~
141,$:
14:l~
1015·16:·
1077-78',
1'1lS:::
1~
1'195~ 1194
1079' .928;
1109-10' 1077
l.075-76~
1195:.
1079' 1078-79';!
138(}'
'756-58, 809-29:•
1196, 1402-.
848,
. 1198=
PAGES •. ·
••
MOTA SINGH, :MASTER~ Question re -:--
·~ MOTHER IND IA. "____:_ Question re - by Miss Mayo
MOTI LAL, NALLAH.--,-- · Question re - Wij,).li Muhammad and Seoundrabad
Nallahs .. MOTION FOR ADJOVRNMENT
Re communal riots at Multan MOTOR ACCIDENT(S)-
Question re - at the level crossing near Verka Question re prevention of -
MOTOR CARS- Question re licenses for - plying between Lahore and
Sheikh u pura. Question re license to ply - between Patha.nkot and
Baijnath Question re tenders for license to ply -
MOTOR FARES- Question re - between Zafarwal and Narowal Que.stion re - charg.ed· by Clive Transport Company Queit..ion re power to reduce - ..
MOTOR LICENCES:._ Question re Deputy Commissioner, Kangra and power to
g11a,nt - ••. Question re - in the Kangra l)i.st'l'iot
MOTOR LORRIES-e- Question re free travelllng of police officials in -
· Question re - . licensed by the Moga. Municipal Com· mittee ..
Question re - .No. P,-5622 plying between Lahore and · Sheikhupura .
Question re use of' G'overninent - for private business MOTOR TRAFFIO--
Qu.estion re - from N arowal to Zafarwal MO'.ll0R TRANSPORT-
.Qu~tfon re --- ?etween Pathankot and Dalhousie:· MOTOR VEHICLES-
Question re - plying between Dalhousie and Pathankot •• Question re rest:riction on T"'I"'" plying in Kangra 'V&lley and
on Dalhousie-Pathankot Road • • • .. :MOTORS-:;- .
Question re plying of~ on hire.in the Kangra Distriot · .... MUHAMMAD ALAM, DR.· SHAIKH-
. Motion for adjournment re communal riots at Multan ·. Police grant
. J?unja.b Municipal (Executive Officer)· Bill
INDE~. Vc.iL.~. x.B.J
-- -- -- --- --- -- ---
1175
•. 808-06, 1282~57 . 1290
1290-91 · 1099-1100.
1121
1857 ....
1153-55 1150-52 1148-49 1239-46
88$-90
f I j ,
824-25 782
1850-52
871-78
947-50 _ 1826-27
.. 1155-56
762-68 812-14
1468-70
858 9.37
946-47
1090 1447.
PAGBS.
[VoL. X-B. . , ! /; ~ •. ,::
IND.EX~
:MUHAMMAD ALAM, DR. SHAIKH-coNOLUDEn, Resolution re completion and opening of the Shahpur Canal. :
Branch . . · ·· • • · . • · • • .· . ~' 9•1-45, 955-68' Resolution re exemption of the swordfrom the op~a.tion .: .
of the Indian Arms Act · . . • . lCijJ8 }{UHA'.MMAD AMIN, KHAN BAHADUR, MALIK-
Resolution re utilisation of Government of India's re mission for levelling down land revenue. . •
:MUHAMMAD GHAUS, DIWAN- . Question re - and tahsil bungalow, Jelalpur-Pirwala
MUHAMMAD HA YAT, QURESHI, KHAN BAHADUR MIAN- .
Resolution re completion and opening of the Shahpur Conal Branch
Resolution re distribution of income derived from resin to the zamindar proprietors of the Shamilat Forests in the Kangra district
Resolution re release of Political prisoners :MUHAMMAD HUSAIN, SAYAD- .
Civil Works (Transferred)· Grant .. Irrigation Grant Motion for adjournment re communal riots at Multan Punjab Land Revenue (Amendment) Bill .. Resolution re completion and opening of the Shahpur
Canal Branch Resolution re control of the sale of artificial ghi Resolution re filling of posts by open competitive exami
nation .. Resolution re utilization of the Government of India's
remission for' levelling down land revenue :.MUHAMMAD IQBAL, DR. SIR-
Motion for adjournment re communal riots at Multan .• Police Grant Resolution re filling of posts by open competitive exami
nation .• .MUHAMMAD SADIQ, SHAIKH
Oivil Works (Transferred) Grant •• Industries Grant
. Medical Grant .. Punjab Municipal (Executive Officer) Bill
:MUHARRAM RIOTS- Question re - a.t Multan
.MUNICIP ALITY(IES)- Punjab - (Executive officer) Bill
, Question re administration of Chiniot - Committee Question re appointments of Chiniot - .. . Question re Chiniot - Committee . . • Quegtion re Christian representation on. - Committees
.Question re Compulsory Primary Education Act in Wa.zir~ abad- •• ....
..
917·18 991
.1892
1295 907~08
1170 1018..21
1010.· 754, 1004.05
1167·69' 1365~66
1302
1206 1189 837
1038 1306-07
1167 1167 1307
909 909
1010 839~40
1227-28
1087 1277 1276 1277
1277 1220-21
749:50
1100.01 752-53
1289-90 918
915-16
..
PAOIIIL
61'
.MUNICIP ALITY(IES)-·CONTI'NUED. Questi,9:i re construction. of shops· by Wazirabad - Com·
mittoo. 'withoat proper sanction . . • .• Question re embezzlement of Ambala - Funds Question. re general elections, Multa'l - Committee ,Questio:i. re grant-in-nid to Hissar - Committee for water
works · ,Questio:i. re Hansi nnd Bhiwani- ,Que3tio:i. re Hindu represmtation O"l Kasur - Committee -Question re Hindu represontatioi on Lahore - · Question re income of - Committees under certain heads .• . Question re Kasur - Committee Question re Kasur - Committee and Enquiry Commis-
sion . . ' Question re Lab.or; - Committee -Quartion re lease of the Labore Cantonment - land by
a nominated member .Question re motor lorries licensed by the Moga - Com·
mittee .• ·Questio1 re - Board Night Schools, Amritsar City
· Questio» re - Committee, Bhiwaui Question re - · Committee; Chiniot Question re - Committee, Ksrtarpur
-Q11eatio:i re - Committee, Kasur -Q11e3tio:i. re - Ele~tio:i. at Kasur .• ·Q.10stio:i re - Committee, Khanna 'Question re - · Committee, Bewari ·Questio:i. re - Committee, Sirsa .• 'Q:.iestio:i. re ---'- Committees and Police or Chaukidari
charges .. Question re - Committee and Sm'lll Towns .• Questio-i re Muslim representation in - and Small Town- -
Committees · ;Qlle.;tio:i re nomination of B. Piyari Lal for membership ·
of Sirs1 Question re nomination of Mr. Fa. khar-ud-Din to Ohiniot ........ - 'Questio~1 re nomination of Muslims to the Chiniot - .• QJe3tio-i re nomination of nou-Khojas to Chiniot - .• "Q:ie~tio'l re nomination o~ a te1'3her oE Islamia School to
the Chiniot - 'Questio:1 re nominations to Chiniot - Committee _Questioci re Pathankot ~ Question re President, Chiniot - Committee and execu-
tion of new works .• Questio:'.l re Rawalpindi -· Committee ..Questio:'.l re Secretary, Chiniot - Committee Question re slaughter house in Wazirabad - .Question re stationery for' - Committee, Wazir-abad
INPEX.
;V'or.. X-&
PAGBS.
1296-97 ·1275 11.70
916
924
1882~88 96~
973-74
1200-01
905
998-99
1:882·8~ 1179-8~
102r
899' l,022'
1159.1225· 1165·
97S: 1SOS: 928-
927-28=
mo~ 98~t
1810• j
·1044
J 10491
122.7.-28'
moo 1191
1108,09'
lSOS'. 785,
H8'1
-.~...,,...,...--, .. ---.' .
MUNJC'lPALITY(IES)-coNcLuP$D. . . Question re term of office of Vice-Presidents of-· Question re teimir.al tax,' Kasur - . ·· Quesiion re Vice-Presidents, ~- Committee, Kasur Question re Wazirabad r: and octroi' duty
MUKtRI G~LAB SINGH AND EONE : Ques1ion re -
lttJBPER- . Question re alleged - of Muslims at Jalalpur Pi1wala Qu.~iion re - in the Gujrnt district Question re -'of KsremDad ofLohgerh Gate, Amritsar ..
J;tUBJ;EROUS .ASSAULTS QIAestion re - on Hindus.
:MUSIC- Quastion re -· before mosques
MUSEUM- Queation re Lahore - and Zoo
MUELIM(S)- . Questicn re alleged murder of - at Ja]alpur Pirwala Questicn re Arms License to - in Rohtak distrfot
. ~uestkn re arrangements for the fcod of - and non Muslim prisoners in Jails
QuGstic n re articles in newspapers exciting- against Hindu Government Officers
Questicn re disaffection among- of Kamal •. Questicn re Iraeas between Hindu and. - students ~nestion re gr~nt to - Rsjput High Schoel, Kal11J1aur Ci,]uesticn re mass meeting of the - of Lahore Questi-0n f'e - Boiler Inspector • • · 41nestion re-: community in the Forest Department .. QuflStion re-. ccmmunity in the. Ireigation Department •. Question re - Engineers and the Board of Examining
Engineers Question re ~ Headmasters. (.Q,uestion re - Headmaster for Kasnr High School Question re _;.. In.sllector, of. ScbooJs , . • • . Q.uestion f'e-:- representation in Branch Dispensaries ~uestion re 7 representation in Municipal and Small
Tnvn Committees Qµestion re - representation in Rawalpindi Cantonment
Board • , · • _. ~ • . , • . • • Question re~ representation in the office of Superintend-
ing Engineer, Lhird Bahawslpur Division • . • . ijllesticn re-: representation in the various Intermediate
«oIJeges .. • . · .. · .. Qnesticn re -;.:!epresentation on the Board of Examining
Engineers • . • . . ·•• • • • • ijuestion re - Sessions Judges • • , • <;.uestion re .. :...: Sub-Assistant Surgeons in Lyallpur
. :nm:n.
t29tMsoo
721 p
961-68
880-82 985-86
145V5S
1478-74, l480- . 81, 1495.
·1sos-bo 1887-89
711-73 817
921, ·1140-41
1889 926
· 828-29
· 1809-10 1276
895-96
1291 .. ,s 1297
1811-12
1428
Punjab District Boards (Tax Valida.ting) Bill .• Resolution re control of the sale of artificial ghi Resolution re distribution of income derived from resin
to the zamindar proprietors of the Shamilat forests -. in the Kangra district . . .
-Resolution re eneouragement of Punjabi and Hindi Ver- naculars in P-rimary Schools ,
Resolution re filling of posts by open Competitive Exa.mi- _ nation ..
Resolution re release of political prisoners Resolution re utilisation of Government of India's re
mission for levelling down land revenue •• RAQQARAH.:_ ,
Question 'l'B confiscation of a - from Khila:fat Volun teers
NA;RAIN SINGH, SARDAR-,- ··.' "Oath of Office . .
'•.•
NAIB-TAHSILDA.BS- Question re salaries of 'l'ahsildars and -
NANAK CHA.ND, P A.NDIT Additiona.l Police, Lahore · Motion for adjournment Te communal riots at Multan Point of order re power of Council to deal with Punjab
District Boards (Tax Validating) Bill . . • •
N.
~ldUSLIM(S)-coNOLUDlilD, Question re - Superintendents and Head Vernacular
Olerks of the Deputy Commissioner's Offices Question Te nomination of...:...; to the Chiniot municipality .• Question Te off er of prayers by - during office hours .• Question re preponderance of - in the Education De-
partment at · Bhakkar Qu~tion re preponderance of - in the staff of Bhakkar .. 'Question re posting of - Canal officers for Dipalpur Divi
sion . Question re posting of - District Inspectors of Schools to
· Gujranwala. Question re suparsession of - by Mr. Daulat Barn,
Bhatia. MUTATIONS-
.. Question re - . :.MUZA.FFAR KHAN, KHAN BAHADUR NAWAB
}Iotion for adjournment re communal riots at Multan
INDEX. -VoL: :X.-B.]
, •.. :<""
[ l;foL • X-B~
PAOF.8-
s10.21l
1486
g57;f58"
1429-81
1$9(}·
8,15~46
1185-85
1202 899'
1862-63•
1023::
ll00-01' 1042•
1874"
100~·084.
itHt4 l199c-
4
1802- i~s-
i~'1r- tt}Bt
·i277 lffl 1m
NARENDRA NATH, J)IWAN BAHADUR, RAJA--: Motion for adjournment re communal riots at Mii1t!;l,i:J. . _. Point. of order rn pdwiir of Cdttncil ,to, deal with Pun.jab
:Vlelrict Boards (Tax V111itlat.iilg} BiU . ~ . • . iWsolution re distribution cH in&>me derived iioia resin
-ld the zamindar propri~tijfa of die Shamiiat forests in the Kangra distritit · _
R"e'!lelution re utilisation of the Government of India's re mission for le~e11irig down liirld revenue
NAZIR HUSAIN.:.:__ QuMffion re reeonciliation of - with Talib Husain through
Inspector of Police . . . • . . . . NJHfRANA-
Question re - .. ~IIDESSARIES OF LIFE~
Question re price of food-stuffs and other - .. UWSPAPER(S)~ . . _ .
Question re action agairlst Khihi.fa.t. - for its allegt.tion · lijainst the Police ..
Question re - Question re proscription of -
NEW APPOINTMENTS-- Question re - made in the Education Department by
the Ministry of Education .. NEWWORKS-
-~ion ~ President, Chhtlot Miinitipai Committee and execution of -
NIDI BAR- Question re grant of land m ~
. Question re grMt' of lttnil ih - t_o ta.mhidars of ctirtain ... 1\ra tet-toMed villages ' ;
NJLI BAR COLONY- ,_,.,Qy,.,iion re military grants in--;. NIGHT SCHOOLS-
Question re e:t~dit~ 01i ~ . : ·· Question re Muhiei}ml lloa.ffi ..:.;...:., ~lliffisa:i: ~!y
NOMINATED MEMBER-- - . Q:iiestion re leQe of tlm Lahore- C1ihionnteii.t mtbricipal
.fntd by a - ~·: Question re - ~ Bdtn1\iil aiitl ii'bt~
NOMINATION- - Qqeation re - of a teacher of falainia S'chtiols to tbe
Chiniot l\fomtli paHty _Qu:-estion re - of B. Piya.ri Lal for membership of Sirsa
municipality . . . . . . . . Question re - 'tii Mr. hkl\ar-ud-Din to Chiniot lhuni~i~ . p11lit.y •. QMStion re - of Muslims to the Ohiniot tiii.inieipality
... ~es.tion re --. of non-Khojss to Chiniot municipality
• ..
--·--.- .' --:::-~"~
.... ·--·.- .. ---· ····--- --~--· .... ··-·'
· .1274 1071 1071 1011
. -Bfo- fCl
·left. . .14'1. ti
- ...
9'A5
1106
139-3-tS
.1112 8'1
1081 991 ·
922·~8
786-87
· 1n21
002 902
1313
1271
117~
. 10$4
l~~I 1110
; .
PAGl!llil.
5J:.
. ' ... .
OA11 CROP- Question re water rate on - •-•
OATli OF OFFICE Ahdul Qadir, 8.ba:ikh, Sit Aehion, Mr. ff F. Astbury, Mr. A. R. Bisha.n Singh, Sardar Bate. Singh, Sa.rda.r , •
· · Cowan, Mr. H. M. Ctwnp, Mr. R .. ~·
service. NORMAL CLASSE~ . .
Que~tion re admission to -, Jnang, ~m~,wi~ NO'RMAL SCHOOLS-
Question re Government -, Hosbiarpur Question re - •. Question re -, Kamal Que«tion re - in Rawalpindi ..
. Question re stipends in the Government +:« Hosbial'pur ... · Question re teachers in 'Govemment -, Hoshia.rpur,
Jullundur . . . . • · Ntm lLAHI, KHAN 13AHAtH1n, SHAiKH-
Question re -, Divisional In~ectw; • , NUR KHAN, RtSAL!>A1t"1tUfAlJt1R-
ll.ssoltttion re utilisation of Government of India's re mission for levelling down land ·1even~ . ,
l
NOMINA'JJION-coNCLUi>ED. . Question re - to Chiniot Municipal Committee Question re - to Small Town Committees ..
NON-ASIATIC DOMIOilJE . 'Question re officers of - NOK-CO-OPERATION- .
Question re -- · of Jailers and Asllist.aiit Jailers with Civil Superintendents
NON-CO-OPERATORS:--:... ·.· Question re oa.S$ of - Question re punishment of -
NON-GAZETTED OFFICERS- . Question re transfer of - in the Irrigation Department
NON-KHOJAS- Question re nomination of - to Chiniot municipality ·
NO'N-MUSLIMS- Questioil re. arrangements for the food of Muslim and -
prisoners in Jails · NON-ZAMINDARS-
. Quest.ion ,·e zamindars and - in certain classes (1f public
INDEX,. Vot. X-B. J.
[ VoL, x.-s. PAGES.
. 1071 1071 721 881 721 721
1071 721 721
1071 1157 1071 146:l '721 721 721
~·,~: );. ..• {.,!. •· 1071
1802 756
916-17 916
1875 918-14
1015 895-1}6
1048-49 841
1085 1084
1048-44 1034
1112-18
1268-64
846 1Hi6
1284
OATH OF OFFIC:S-ooNcLUDBD, Currie, Mr. M. M. L. . . em, Col. C. A. Harbakhsh Singh, Sardar
· Harl Singh, Sardar Hira Singh, Sardar Kartar Singh, Bedi, Bab1i
· King, Mr. C. M. Narain Singh, Sardar .. Partap Singh, Sardar Penny, Mr. J. D. . . . Raghbir Singh, Honorary Lieutenant, Sardar
· Sanderson, Mr. W.R. Stewart, Mr. H. R.
. Strickland, Mt. C. F •.. Townsend, Mr. C. A.H. Ujjal Singh, Sarda.r •. Wilson, Mr. W. R.
OCTROI- Question re compounding of an - case -. .
·. Question re Small 'I'own Committee, Dasuha, and - tax . Question re - duty and terminal tax Question re Wazirabad municipality and - duty
ODS- . Question re - . . .
OFFENSIVE AND INFLAM;MATORY ABTICLES . Question re - in the Press
OFFENSIVE WRITINGS- Question re action against - in the Press
OFFICE HOURS- . Question re offer of prayers by Muslims during -
OFFICERS-- I Question re circular regarding educational - and private
publications Question re gazetted - at Hissae Question Te grievances of Kamal public against loesl - .. Question f'e - of n'on-.Asiatio domicile Question Te rewards for honest police - Question re transfer of Police -
OFFICIAL MEMBERS- . Question re - of Small Town Commibfees .
· Question re recommendations of the Joint Select Com -mittee of Parliament regarding voting by -
OFFICIALS-- Question re Jail - .. . Question re punishment of.-;- in the J~il Department
Olk-.- , , .. ,Q'(i,.i)Stion re sugar and - ,industry
TNDEX •.
1074
1180
nos 1426
1175,
1176
1102
1268-64.
721
1426
9BS 932
.781
~-
PA.GJ!lS~
- ·-· - ~ .,:"- .. -° . 1201
·. 727
.1098-94
118&
1871-72"
1879-80
1890 ~
1048
PANOHAYATS Question re -
P ANOHA YAT CONFERENOE Quastion re -
PANEL OF CHAIRMEN PARLIAMENT-
. Quesition re recommendations of the Joint Select Com mittee of - regarding voting by official mem bars
PARTAP SINGH, SARDAR- Oath of office
PARTITION- Question re - of pasture lands
PASSENGERS-- Question re inconvenience to certain taihva.y ~ at Panipat
1> AS-SPORT (B)_:.. Question re applications for - to foreign countries Ques~ion re treatment of applicants for foreign· - by
lambardars and the Police PASTURE LAND(B)-
Question re - . Question re partition of - PATHANB-
. Question re confiscation of arms license of certain - Question re e~esses committed by - in the Kangm dis-
trict •.
P.
ORDINANCE- Question re ..,..-, for the suppression of communal distur
.... baneea M ••
ORDINARY EXPENDITURE Question re - for lW6-27
ORIGINAL SIDE- Question re crefltion of - to the High Court e.t Lahore
ORPHANAGES-- Question re rr: poor houses and widow homes ·
OUTLETS-- Question re - for Olnal water to District Boord, Fsrose- .
pore Question re - on the Makhdoom Rashid distribute.ry of
the Sidhnai Canal .. .OVER COLLECTION-
Question re - of Tinn in Shorkot Tahsil OWNERS-
Question re compensation to - of lands damaged by "Sam"
. ~ . .; · .. ' . .- , .:··-
.. INDEX. · .Voil; X~K]:
1202 1006 1204
1120, 1.206
1104
900
1087
1089 -~-84
981 .~5
J~88 BSS
1124 1404
1071
fYJ,p-77 1181
1141 tl.S.00
JD.24
,,--_-: .. r,
Question re · screen . Pµ()UGHS-
. Question re Census of - l?LOUGH CATTLE-
Q!iestion re land tilled by - POLICE--
Question re action against Khilajat newspaper for its allegation aia.inst th!:' ........ . • · , • ..
Qu.estion re Aiditiiem.t - !F-areeJ · Lalsere ~~. . . Question re appointment ef a Hindu lat as Inspector of- - ·
-~··.-
PATWARIS- QuestiOll re .~ IM ,..- MN: m s,g tail he&d
quarters .. Question re Provident Fund for Rev~.·, Question. re Punjab - and Kanungc's AeiOOi&iion
PA'.UWARKHANAS- .. ~tionre-
PAY- 'luestion re grades of - ~ emt.m da11111 et wehenl Question re scale of - for copying examiners
PENNY, MR. 1. D.- lfi. OM.Ii of office PENSION(S)-
Qi¥1stion re commutation .of - 1403 Question re - rules . . . . 008, HS7, 1408 Question re retirement oi members m h.dian. ~vii :S.ervice
on proportiona ta - PENSIONERB-,c
Question re Civil - .. PEONS' UNION
Question re - PERSONAL ASSIS1.l:ANT(S)-
Question re Lala Arjan Das - to Minister for Agrieel ture
Question re - to Deputy Inspectors of ~818 PETITION-
Queetion re ~ of appeals and revisions in the Cotit .of Commissioner, Multan
PET'.rY-HOLDEBS- _ Quftltion re grant oi_ Limd fa - in thii Sun &ta
PHYSICAL '.IlRAININ G- Qnestion re compulaory - in sdueational institutions
.PIP~ ,Question re estimates for - water-.suppiy, ~
PIYARI LAL, B.- -Question re ~tiQil oi - for · ui..e,Qib&ship of Sirsa
municipality PµA YS---'.-
f~.ol-02 -~~ 1891
ni~:-11 1113
r!6, ~~~-15 1289 755 739
Hi~ l.010
~89 1873 998
~J-82 747
. 1427 147 l864
904-05 1095
{IT~ ~"9-47
1-906-07 1115·1;$, }J.§1
P~"-96 f890 1209 - 1~-44 ·1004 1175
,74,5·56
1298 ~
tS65
-Question re c~mi;n..p.paj. r.ep_r.es,ei,-t~tjpµ fo the ~ stp.ff pf . . . }li11stern Range . • . • . , . ,. ,Question re complaints against the - -Quession re complaint of illegal extortion against
· officers . . . . . . . . · -Question re depressed classes in the - Department ·Question re direct rooruitment of -:-- Head Constables ·Question re enquiry into the' conduct 'of·.:.:._ offioe~s' . 'Question re free tra velling of - officials in motor
lorries .. ·Question re Hindus in the - Department .• Question re Hindu representation in the Additional -,
Multan . . · ~uestion re horse allowance to - Inspectors
. wstion re Inspeesor' of .::,:"" . -Question re local allowance to - Sub-Inspectors .• ·Question re Municipal Committees and -:- QT 94~µ,i~afj)
c~argps .. · . . . . . . · -Question re - and Judicial Br~UAl;l~ of 8.e,:viee ·Question re - in t~e ~llfM-J du,.ttj.ot ~uestion re - in Lahore city . ~~tion re - officers and ~~ rj.~ ,Question re =- ~ a/, fATo~~,e ojty ~y St.ation •• ·Question Te - Service . . . . . . • • ·Question re- Station for Moga .. Question re Pu,nitiv:~ -:--:- p~ ~ ~~Ii' J{:qa.tai .•
-Qnestion re ;E>n.w.twe - ~ax .. ·Q¥~stion re Punitive - ,tax in KaJl!, Khatai tahsil -Question re Punitive - tax in Rawalpindi .• -Question re P~.r;i.jab - 0Qplmitt,e.e ~po;t .. 9.q.~tion re qualifications for employment in - Foi:~ Question re Qutab Din, Head Constable of - -Question re receipt o.f gi:atuity by - servants · •Question re reconoilation qf · Nazir. Husain with T.~)}h,
· ·, Hnsain, through inspector of - · · · · ,Question re recruitl».d of --,-- .COJlstabies aad He&« Con·
stables . • . ,Question re recruitment to - Force ·Qu~op r~ rewards for honest - .o,ffic.er11 ·<;)u~~ re transfer of - officers •• ·Question re t1,~Yl'3.nt 9f ~.'lB~-~ for joteiglf ·~.IIJP.ort,e
· by the la~~ardars and the - .g~tion re up#orms to -:--c InsRi,O~r~ W &.b::J~iOt!l
i
I
POLICE-ooNOLUDBD. Q1wtwp re building for the residence - of p~n,itivf -:-:'J
. If• Kha.t&i • • . • Question re clessifleetion of - Inspectors, as ~JP..tt~4
· officers • • • • 756 9uestlon re communal representation in - ~ ·• . . 9~;~, · 1 u 4-,
lffl.~.-1@.'.
1176- 1101·02:
.. 1164-65, 1172,. 1188:-89.
1865,
1015; 1918-14
1100-01
1496-97'
1069' 982:
759' 965-67, 1069'
967'
96'i 1506-07'
1891 895-96:-
1045 722'
118& -
1406-07
1808-
PAGBS.
768. ii4'7-48 764:-98'
·-~~-c:--;·-~-:-,:.-·
Question re' Compulsory - Act in Wazirabad Munici- pality •• , •. ·
Question re Cotnpulsory - in Zail 8arih ; .
POLICE GRANT - .. Additional Police for Lahore
POLICE FORCE ACT- : · ·. Question ,-e eommunal representation in - Lahore Can-· '
tonment POLITICAL DEPARTMENT-.
Question re appointment of Punjab Officers to Govern- ment of India ·
POLITICAL PRISONER(B) Qnestion re -
· · Question re -'- under the Defence of India Act POOR HOUSES-
. Question re orphanages, - and widow homes POSTING- '
Question re - of Inspectors and Deputy Inspectors of Schools on communal basis . . . . · ..
PRAYERS- . . ~ _ Question re liberty to offer - in Boarding Rouse, Gov
ernment College, Multan · Question re offer of - by Muslims during office hours
PRESIDENT, MR. - Amendn:.i.ent of Standing Orders .. Election of Deputy President. • . Election to Public Accounts Committee Elections to the Select Committee to consider the amend
ment of Standing Orders • Election to the Standing Finance Committee
.... Offer of thanks to His Excellency Sir Malcolm Hailey and Lady Hailey
Panel of Chairmen Euling re point of order, re power of the Council to
• - ·s .. deal with Punjab District Boards (Tax Valida-ting) Bill
PRESIDENT__, Question re -.. Chlniot Municipal Committee and exeeu
' , ·, · tion of new works .. PRES~
- Question re action against offensive writings in the - .. Question re offensive and inflammatory articles in the - ..
PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO- ANIMALS ACT~ Question re ...,....
PRIMARY EDUCATION- ; Question re Compulsory - Act
IND-EX.
~-
~. ,..,..
-~---
· ... ·.:
·I j
1
l
6t
--~·,::iw_ . -·~ ....
109&
1112:'
895, 1272:
· 1048-4~
1858
- 1221~2r lt91-92
, 1072' 1226.
1191-92: ]027
887-88-
1174
887 1045 722
lS04 84S
1027 848 888
1375~76-
109&
1188-84:
• , ' ', ~ ' I , / I
SST· 741
926-27" 740
PRIMARY SCHOOL(S)- ., e • Question re a.pplioatiotJS of - school teachers
., Question re Building grant for-., •.. Que6tion re Hindi ,_. in Hiesar district
.. ,Question re Middle and -r-r PRINCIPAL-
Question re - Victoria Girls School, Lahore .PRINTING-- . .
Question re - of the proceedings of tbe Punjab Text Book Committee
PRISONER(S)- . Question re arrangements for the food of Muslim and
Non-Mmdim -· in Jails Question re Jaggat Ram, sort of Ditta Mal, - Question re ·. list of --· · Questio11 re Mart.ial Law - Question re Mussammat Laehbya, -. in Lahore Female
Jail Que~tion re Political -~ .
·,, Question re Political - under the Defence of India Act Question re-· convicted by the Defence of India Tribunal Question re - Master M~ta Singh, · Question re prosecutions of -- in Montgomery J~l for
rioting . . . · Question re Punjabi - confined in Jails of other pro
vinees .. Question re release of Gurdwara - . Question re remission of sentences of Martial Law -- now·
in Andamans Question re report of illness ol certain Punjabi - Question re Sardar I'eja Singh and Sardar Kartar Singh,
Gurdwara --- " Question re Sikh - in Burma Jails Question re wages for -·
P.RIVA~1E FA!\ULY WARDS- · Question re attendance of Medical College students in
PRIVA'.l'E PUBLICATIONS-- . Question re Circular regarding educational officers and - PRIVATE SECRETARY-
Quesfion re Superintendent in the office of :-- to His Excellency the Governor
PRIVATE TUITIONS- . Question re - ·
PRIZE:..... Question re award of - -to female graduates to pursue
their studies in English University PROCEEDINGS-
Question re printing of the - of the Punjab ~rext Book Committee· ••
I -
~
"INDEX.
r I
I
.-
r:v~. x~P. PAoP.S.
'·~·'I - ·- 988 .l-088
lOSi..83, isee
1107
1JQ4 780
848
1406
838, 1165
1862-63
898
1174 Jltl~-89
}')93
1125-29
1007 189$-~
}?99 1399
i4102 ,. VJ7fJ
970.-7~. i88-84 ii,~ ]j815 1228
_FROPRIETARY-RIGHT&----. . Question re grant of - m Lya.llpur PttORCRIPTION- - Question re - of ut:1\\spa.pers
PROSECUTING A.GEKCY~ Question re - and :Magistracy
PROS~CU'!'IONS- Qµ~tioh re - of prisoners in Montgomery Jail for tjoti,ng Question re --:- under t}le Indian Ft.:wt~r:~ A~t ..
.PROSPECTS-- Question re - for Punj,abj ~tµ~~ q\1alifb'ing at the
Indian School ,-,f Mm:0!il, Dhansbad PROVIDENT FUND-
9µestion re - for Revenue Patwaris PROVINCIAL AKD Sl1BOR_DIKATE EDU.CA'flON SF,]E-
VTCE- .. Question u new appointments in -
,l?WVINCIAL CIVIL SERYICE--- Question re appointment of - officers to listed posts Question re bQ.r to - officers to hold certain poot.s Question re Indian Civil Service and - Question re recruitment of - officers to Indian Civil
~~1ice .. Question re right of appeal by members of -
PROVINCIAL ~DUCA'rl.ON.Al,J SlllBiV!CF,- . ~uestion re appointments in the - Question re - Question re s~tjoµ graw;i ppstis in -· ..
.PB.()VINCIAL I,;OANS AND' ADVANCES GRANT
nee on-
PBO:B'ESSOR(S) Question re - in the Governmeat Intarmediate Colleg.aa •• Question re - or teachers in Intermediate Oolleg~ Question re Bardar Labh Singh, .!esociate - of Agrioo.l-
tnre PROFESSOR OF ZOOLOGY
Question re Reporter 011 Boob and - in the Government College, Lahore
PROHIBITION- Question re -- of slaughter of certain kinds of animals Question re total - ..
PROMOTIONS- Question re - of teachers in the Bhera Government Hig~
School .. P~OPORTIONA'IE PENSIONS-
Question re repiren~ent of members of Indian Civil Her·
~
GB P.A.GBB •
788 .l"7 738
J004 ,
9i8 988
967 A
lU:l
lOOI~ 1097
1~3-Q4 1091-99
1006
786-36
1178
786-87
1198
1032
1427 W4
)041-~
101)6 901-0~
·004 .. ~ ~ 1426
910 ;tlP.2
1166
.;
' .
Question re ~ Question re - in the Multan division
.PUBLIC SERVICE(S)- Question re agricuJ.tJHi;,lts in -- Qu~tion re proportion for enlistment of van<>us com-
munities in - . Question re zaniind1prs and non-zamindara in certain
· elassea of - . · .;FUBLIC TRAFFIC-
Qu~tion re opening of side roads along C~n~l- banka to-
PUBLIC WORE;B DEP .i\.R'.C:i\rnrr:,'j--rr- . Qn1r,:1ti~n re communal representation in the -, l3uj,l.diugs
and, Roads ~~h .. Question re permission to Tahsildars to utilize Canals and
- rest-houses Question re - draftsmen and tr-~elli .. Question re Upper Subordinates (residue) in - Irrigation
Branch .. J>UBLICATION-
Question re contract for the - of books prepared by the Education Department ·
Question re - of books .PUBLISHERS OF BOOKS--
Question re Munshi Guiab Singh and Sons - 01 the Education Department·
. J?VLSES- . Question re research work in - .PUNISHMENT- .
Question re~ for corruption in th~ Jail Department Question re - of non-co-operators
· Question re ~ of offioia.ls in the Jail Depart.maru.
. PROVINCIAL SERVICE{S)- Question re Civil Judicial Branch of - Question re communal representation in -
· Q.aeetion re Jndicial Brsnoh of the - Q1188tfon re -
PROVINCIALISA'l!ION.,-.,.., • Qu131ftjgn re - of High Schools
Qaestion re ~ of Schools· •• PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE-
Election to --'-- L.~yjng of the report of -
. PUBLIC MANA.G:mllltlN'1 .i\.CT Question re Village Sanitation and -
PUBLIC PROSECUTORS- QµeiH.fon re educational qualifications for Question re Lala. Ratan Chand, a. candidate for the post
of-
11SS.
888-39'
1096,
808- 1282 1282 1232
1124
846-47
1094
• 1406-07
808-06 1282
· 1282-oT
1258-62,, 1461-71
1471 1471-1506
1506
751
1298
904-06'
.·' 1864
1095, 1864
976-
.nso.sa
PAGRS •.
. [VoL. X--1.;,
..
PUNJAB MUNICIPAL (EXECUTIVE OFFICER) BILL Introduction of - .. Presentation of Select Committee Report - ..
. Motion for circulation of - PUNJAB OFFICER~
Question re appointment of - to Government of India, Politica.l Department · ..
PUNJAB PATWARIS' AND KANUNGOS' ASSOCIA- '.ITION- .
·_ Question re - . . . . • • - PUN JAB POLICE COMMirJ'.TEE REPORT-
Question re - - . PUNJAB SECRETARIAT-
Question re employment of Bhai Uttam Singh in the - .. .PUNJAB TENANCY (AMENDMENT) BILL
Introduction --- Presentation of Select Committee Report Consideration of - .. Passed- ..
. PUNJAB TEX'J: BOOK COMMITTEE- ·-. . Question re printing of the proceedings of the - PUNJAB UNEMPLOYMENT CO~MITTEE
Question re - PUNJAB ZAMINDAR LEAGUE-,-.
Question re resolutions of the -
.,: .. PUNITIVE-
Question re - Police tax PUNITIVE POLICE
Queation re building for the residence of-·, Kala Khe.te.i.. PUNITIVE POLICE POST
Queation re - a.t Kala -Khatai .. PUNITIVE POLICE TAX-
Question re - in Rawalpindi .. PUNJAB BRIBERY ENQUIRY COMMITTEE
Question re report of the - PUNJAB DISTRICT BOARDS (TAX VALIDATING)
BILL-- Introduction of - .. Consideration of -:- Passed -
PUNJAB EDUCATIONAL SERVICE- -Question re - ..
PUNJAB JAIL ENQUIRY OOMMITTEE- Question re - • . . . . .
PUNJAB LAND REVENUE (AMENDMENT) BILL .Reference to Select Committee
•
INDEX. 64
1028
846 756
1311 1809
1307 .. 902 '1820
900 1820-21
1115 - 901
974 1176
844
HM 1174
743
1006-07
1184-86
1193-94
1081-82
846
.. PAGES.
65
QANUNGOS- Question re -in the Kamal district
QILA SOBHA ·SINGH...,- Question re construction of a milw~y line between - and
Zafarwal QUALIFICATIONS-
. Question re - for employment in Police force .• Question re - of the mistreses of Victoria Girls' School,
Lahore .. QUARTERS-
. Question re retention by the teaching staff of their iamily members in Government--
(lUESTIONS AND ANSWERS . AFZAL HAQ, C HAUDHRI_:
Question re Abowal Excise Case Question re age, ete., of prisoners flogged in Montgomery
Jail . • . . Question re appearance of the names of the Education
· Department officers in books passed by the Text-Book Committee
Question re applications for passport to foreign countries Question re artillery practice in Ilaqa Kandi Question re a.ward of prize to femal0 graduates to pursue
their studies in English University - Question re ban on the return of several Punja bis from
abroad Question re Bar Room in Garhshankar Question re bar to Rawal Community entering Govern
ment Service Question re Board of Examining Engineers.~
• Question re Board of Examining Engineers (Department of Industries) ·
Question re cases of Non-Co-operators Question re cattle lifting -Question re children and Cinemas Question re Civil Superintendents of Jail .Question re Commission to enquire into complaints
against Headmasters · · · · · . ~ Question re complaints ~~inst the Police
Q.
PUNJABIS- Question re ban on the return of several - from abroad
J?URCRASE- Question re - of stores for the Hosiery Institute
INDEX.
901 !Hl4°65,_
1172:
1175
1314-
1$11
1314 842
844; 1114 8'45,
10~2 1176
840 l11llr-W
1116-17 "10-21
744 1182-8$. 11.~8-74
1159.:00, 1225 j 922
922 j
901 1811'
1805-
1228.
1165 Sffl; 925-
1ltl9-20
1226 -~~
1~-9!!:
PAGES~
QUESTIONS AND AMSWERS-coNTINtJED. A:B'ZAL HAQ, CHAUDHRl-CONTINUED.
Question re Compulsory Education in Jails .. Question re Compulsory Primary Education Act
Question re Compulsory Primary 'Education Act in Wazirabad Municipality
Question re communal representation in the Clerical staff of the Text-Book Committee
Qmistion re communal representation in the otlices of Superintending Engineers . . . . . .
Question re communal representation in the Text-Book Committee staff ..
Question re Co-operative Societies Question re corruption Question re decorations of Tahsil buildings Question re disaffection among Muhammadans of
I{arnal · Question re distribution of grants-in-aid .. Question re District Board High Schoois .. Question re disturbances in Montgomery Jttil. . .. Question re enquiry into the conduct of :Police officers,
Ludhiana Question re Exeise Cases Question re fat~ of b'Uliook ~a;ttlf Quest~on re ftrtn~ on zamindars in' village Khokharzer Question re tfoggtflg tn :Monigotmiry JRtl • . • . Question re fracas between Itindtu1 llnd MMlbn students
of Intennediate College, Hoshisrpur Question re Govetrt:tnertt Advetti!f~Jnef.its Question re Government Nomial Schob], Itoshiatput .. Question re Gov#mment Efcho61l!. i1i JttUttnd'ttt Division
and Jhatks controversy Question re fttant.i11-5id to &mbaa'ial. !slantle, Angfo-
Vernacular Middle School (Sialkot) . . .,.. ~ It' .. · · Question re grant of Crown Lands to fl.ood··a:tYectEid
. villages Question re grant of Crown lands to zamindara of village
Abba .. . .. .. .. Question re grant to Muslim Rajput High School,
Kalanaur (Rohtak) . . . . . . Question re Haisiat Tax Question re Headmaster of Government Railway : Technical 8chooI; Lahore
Quttstion re · holidays in the Jntertnediat& College, Hoshiarpui' • ~ .•
. Question re Honorary Lieutenant Haji 8he:t lmhadul' Khan
102r
- . ssg,
. · '.rn19"
9:2\j..
115&
.. :841 848
102~. 84t,:
1174 1018-21'" 998-24, rnfl-72'
1024 ]115
8Sl 848 9'J3
869.40 lb06-01
1801 _ 924
-9-73.74 · 180$
. 92$. •. Mt-2g
180~
1810
Hli7-28:
1808
1109-10·
,, 1175-
..
-
Question re Lahore Riot -Csses . • • • Question re Lilan Bomb Oase .. Question re ™enses of· fir~rtt1s .•. Qe.estion re Master Mota Singh . . · ; • ~estion re Maulvi Fazal Ahmad and La.hate Riots · .. Question re Mtilticifffd Ott:rlnritfreei! aftll e!tnall Towns • ~ Question re Municipal Committee, Kartarpur Question re Municipal Cotmtuttoo, Khaiiha Qt}.estion re Munshi Ghulah Sitl.gh Mitl Bum.. ; . Question re ihitrd~r oi Karam Dad. 1>f Iioliga.fh ffilW,
'.Amritsar •. Question re M.'ti1dim Boilet '.rttst)OOOOr ; . -
· Q~ re Muslim Community in the Forest De· • -\:1Qrtment · . . · . . . .
Qdestion re Muslim Cbnifutrttlty in tM frr~tkw: l)er. partment , . . .···v, --
Question re -M:tl.SlhH EiigitMers and the Buattl of Et- amining Eng4\~
Question re Muslifil HM.dmaster for Ifasur High School
Question re Muslim representation in Mnnmipai and Sinall Town Committees,
Question re M'Elsfim teprelfubatidh oh the Board tlf Examining Engineers . • ~-. ; •
Question re Mttslifu S\ilfflrmtehlimiti attd Reau V~ttm- eular Clerks of the Deputy Commissioner's oflice ••
Question Te ~ of OMiWS -debaftijd from ~~ Go,:. - ~men.t Service • • • •
I,
QUESTIONS AND ANSWlRS-coN"tiNb~b. AFZAL HAQ, CHA UDHRI~ooNTINUED.
Question re Honorary Magistrates Qtiestion re Honorary Magistrates and Council Eloo0
tions .. Questim1 re inspection of the Governmant. Rail\ffiy
Technical 8tihool, Lahore Question re introduction of schemes such a.s " Refresh
ment for all," etc., in schools of the Provinee ·· Question re investigation into the 1d]tlgatl. COli&pitaey to
attack Hindu leaders Question re Irrigation Branch M9Illo. No. 506,i..E; I.,
dated the 28th Apfil 1926 ; . Question re Jaggat Ram; son of Ditta Mal Question re Jagirdars afld Arnia Act Question re Jail officials Question re KhursMiti Ahmad Khan, Rest1atoh S~hulat Que.st~on r. e Laho~e Munieipality . , Q11est1on re Lahore Riots , .
I~DEi.
845.46
1028 1173 841 1894 1002
888
· 975
1sh.12 1188-84
1174 751
1~27 901-02
974 902
846-47
1184-86 ',_!
1115-16.1157 1157-58 ·. 752-53 '. -~- .. '" .. 975
1808
1188 892
1814.15
842.
1226
l&U..16
·-·
.. services
Question re N azrana Question re new appointments made in the Education
Department. by· the Ministry of Education ·Question re non-co-operation of Jailers and Assistant
Jailors with Civil· Superintendents Question-re Normal 8chool11 .•
,Question re number of suspensions, ete., by the Circle Registrar, Sha.hpur . . . • ,
Question re opening of Sirhind Canal ,Question re Personal Assistants to Deputy Inspectors of
Schools ~-Question re persons challaned under section 109,
· Criminal Procedure Code ,-Question re posting of Muslim Canal Officers for Dipal-
· pur Division . . . . · .. . . .-,Question t"e Principal, Victoria. Girls' Schools, Lahore .""iuestioil re prosecution of prisoners in Montgomery
Jail for rioting ·. ·Question re Punjab Educational Service . • • •
-Question re Punjabi prisoners confined in jails of other provinces , • .
.. ~Question re publication of books . . • . • :,Question re .f_ublio Works Dep~rtment Draftsmen and
Tracers · .• ·· ~Question re punishment of non-co-operators . ·Question re Punjab Police Committee Report
Question re qualifications of the Mistresses of Victoria Girls' School, Lahore
-Question re Qutab Din, Head Constable of Police, Ludhiana ·
-Question re R!!>jputs of village Ra.thaur Question re Rawalpindi Municipal Committee
:Question re ~egister of complaints , Questidn re removal of the Boiler Inspector from the ·, • membership. of the Board of Examining Engineers ..
Question re removal of the names of Bajputs of village, Rathaur from the Register of Criminal Tribes .•
Question Te rs-organisation of the Senate .• ·Question re Reporter on Books Question re report of. Deputy Commissioner, Hoshiarpur,
; - : · re certain trouble in Ilaqs Bait . • • • - iQuestion re 'report of illness of certain Punjabi pri- r · .. sonars ' . ·Question f6 · tapresenta tion of . various communities in
<QUESTIONS AND ANSWERSc-OONTINUmD,
AFZAL HAQ, CHAUDHRI-ooN'l'IKtJBD,
. ( -
INDEX~ ··
-:
----~
. ,;._.: ·.,,.,. ·:)~86
925 902, 92.~·24
1175 920 842 750
1385-86, 1388 1388-89
1388
1~~6-87 1384-85
j399
.. •
838 839
1160·64 1187 1806 750 900 974 975
1615
756 751 ..
922-28 1160
1810
750-51 1806 925
..
I·
PAGJl!I.
••
Question re Resolutions of the Punjab Zaminda.r League Question re Resolution of Tibbia. Conference Question re :Resolutions passed by t'he Second Legisla-
tive Council Question re 'Batta Gambling
·Question re scarcity of Mechanical Engineers Question re scholarships Question re screen plays Question re Second Clerks of Divisional offices Question re Secretary, Text-Book Committee " Question re selection grade posts in the Provincial Edu-
cation Service Question re Small Towns' ·Committee, Dasuha, and Oetroi
Tax . . . • Question re stipends Question re stipends in the Government Normal Schoo],
Hoshiarpur .• · . . . . . . Question re Sucha Singh, convict in Ferozepore Jail Question re Superintendent of the Deputy Commis
sioner's office, Kangra Question re Superintendent of Deputy Commissioner's
offices .. Question re 'I'ahsildar of Sheikhupura Questiop. r11 teachers in Government Normal School,
Hoshiarpur Question re teachers in (Iovernment Normal Schools of
Jullundur Division Question re Text-Book Committee Question re treatment of applicants for foreign passports
by Lambardars and the Police . Question re Unemployment Committee Question re village libraries Question re zamindari scholarships ..
AHMAD YAR KHAN. DAULTANA MI.AN . Question re Agricultural College, Lyallpur ..
. Question re Agricultural Engineer .. Question re Lala Arjen Das, Personal Assistant to
Minister for Agriculture , Question re communal representation in Agricultural
Department. . . .. Question rt House Surgeon, Veterinary College, Lahore: Question re Inspector and Deputy Inspector of Schools,
Lahore Division . . . . ·.·Question re s. ·!Jabh Singh, 4,Ssociate Professor in tb~ r, .. · :ABri~ultural. College, ~yal_q>~ . · ... . . ,,•.~.
-QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-oosTI1l'L'ED. AFZAL HAQ, CHA UDHRI-co~curnEn~
INDEX.
1290,
1898.
1392'
1086,87'
1882~88 , SoT
129().91 884-
~~99- . :r 108i·ll00.
1428-25 1426 1894
1418-28 1425 1427 1426 1427 1426 1425
1'425·26
1428-
755-56
1389,
1389·
921-22.
754-55 754 755 756
PAGES
[ VoL. X.-B;..
r" ·:~- .. ~~ '--:"'... ·~·· ... -· ....... ,·;•::"""'".''~·~···... • " ·.·
QUF.sflONS AND ANSWERS-coNTI.NUED. . AHMAD YAR KHAN DAULTANA, M1:AN-00NOLUDED.
Question re Provincial Educational Service Question re supersession of Muslims by Mr. Daulat Ram.
Bhatia AKBAR ALT, PIJt-;...
·Question re Abohar Branch, Sirhind Canal.. . Question re agriculturists and the Education Depart-
ment •. Question re Fazilka Government High School Question re horse allowance to Police Inspectors Question re Police Inspectors .. Question · re uniforms to Police Inspectors and Sub . Inspectors
ALI AHMAD CHAUDHRI- Queetion re posting of Muslim District Inspectors of
Schools to Gujranwala . . · . " .. RAO BJ\LBIRSINGH, HAO BAHA:DUR LIEUTENANT
Question re Agricultural College, Lyallpur, and Engineer- . . -ing College, Rasul
· · Questiol!..re consolidation of holdings Question re expenditure on night schools Question re grant-in-aid . Question re improvement of village roads .. Question re maintenance list of demobilized soldiers Question re partition of pasture lands Question re Police Service ' Question re preservation of Hariana breed of cows Question re research work in pulses, etc. Question re scarcity of water in wells in Rewari
BODH RAJ, LALA- Qnestion re administration of Chiniot Municipal Com· · mittee Question re admission of students to Normal elasses,
Jhang Question re admission to the Normal classes, Jhang,
eommunitvwise . . . . . . . . Question re~ allegations against Chsudbri Faia Ali,
·. Tahsildar, Sirsa . . . Question re alleged murder of Muslims at Jslalpur
Pirwala Question re applications of Primary school teachers· Question re appointments in Chiniot Municipality
-. Question re arms licenses . • • • Question re Assistant Superintendents of Jail Question te ca.sesJried hy Honorary Magiiftrates Question re oattle slaughter at Tuhana. ••
, : .Qllel,tion re·Chiniot Muufoipal.Committee ••
.; ..
I~D;EX.
----~
1092· 74l> 841
1392: 1298;
728 838, 1166
1894-
909·10
.1289·
1170
:188S &2
888 1085-86
1090 l09l} 1872
748-49' 1089'
1050, 1398 1391
1091 1393
724-26,
1381
1391
J291
1] 71
PAGES
1 .·.1 j
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-co:N1'INUED. BODH RAJ. LALA--CONTIN{.:ED.
Question re complaint against. Headmaster, High S(•hoo], Kahror,
Question re com plaint against Talib Hussain, Zaildar, Garb Maharaja . . _
Question re complaints against the Superintendent of Grey Canals
Question re complaints of cultivators on 11-L Mont gomery Canal Division against a Canal Officer
Question re Lala Des Raj, Suh-Overseer, Burala Divi sion, Lower Chenab Canal
Question re Deputy Commissioner, Hissar and Sub- Divisional Officer, Sirsa
Question re desecration of Granth Sahib, Jhang Question re direct recruitment of Head Constables Question re dispute regarding certain vacant sites in
Jalalpur Pirwala .. Question 're District Inspectors of School Jhang
_ Question re Diwan Muhammad Ghaus , and Tahsil bungalow, Jalalpur Pirwala ..
Question re Dusserah land in Jalalpur Pirwala Question re election of S. Autar Singh to Sm-all Town
Committee, Tandlianwala Question re electrification of Lyallpur Question re estimates for pipe water supply, Multan Question re exemption of the sword from the operations
of the,Arms Act •. Question re Chaudhri Fa.iz Ali Khan. 'I'ahsildar, Sirsa .. Question re , Mr. Faal-i-Husain, Vice-President,
Jalalpur Pi.rwala Committee • • • • Question re female Education in Mailsi Tahsil Question re gazetted officers at Hissar Question re general elections, Multan Municipal Com-
mittee . . . . . . ' Question re Government School, Bhakkar .. Question re grant of Jagi.rs for assisting Government
against Akali agitation _ Question re grant of proprietary rights in Lyallpur •• 1
Question re Mr. Gyan Sagar, ex-Jailor • . . Question re Headmaster of the Middle School, Rangpur,
Muzaffargarh • . • • . . • • Question re Hindu representation in the Additional
Police, Multan • • . • . • • •• (}uestion re Hindu representation on Kasur Municipal
· Committee • • • • • • • • Question re Honorary Lieutenant Haji Sher Babadur
·Khan - ~.:. •• ~~ ••. ... •• .. ••
INDEX.
831-32 728-24
1390 836 1092 1392
833, 1165 1004-05
1167-69 1382
1891 884 838
1172
1171 1086 837
1005, 1167 1167
837
J .. 1297
1087 1390
'835
722
1297-98
: · ]1297 ' (
. U00-01 ~.
;, 910
j''.1166
PAGES.
[ Vot. X-B.
('
;.: A, '
,QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-coNTINuED.
BODH RAJ' LALA-CONTINUED. Question re Honorary Magistrates Question re Hugh Vernacular Middle School, Khangarh Question re inspection of Ilaqa Kaohhi by District
officers Question re irrigation in Multan Question re Jalalpur Pirwala Committee ·Question re Jhang Drainage Scheme Question re Jinsi Batai Question re Kasur Municipal Committee. Question re Kasur Municipal Committee and Enquiry
Committee Question re Kitchen Canal Question re liberty to offer prayers in Boarding House,
Government College, Multan Question re licenses under the Arms Ac.t Question re list of prisoners Question re local allowance to Police Sub-Inspectors Question re memorial of the shop-keepers Committee of
Lyallpur Question re Mental Hospital, Lahore Question re Municipal Committee, Bhiwani .. Question re Municipal Committee, Kasur .. Question re Municipal Election at Kasur Question re Mussammat Lachya, prisoner m Lahore
Female Ja.il Question re new canal for western Jhang and Muzaffar
garh .. Question re nomination of B. Piyare Lal for membership
of Sirsa Municipality Question re over collection of Tirni in Shorkot Tahsil .. Question rlpetitions of appeals "and revisions in ths Court
of Commissioner, Multan .. Question re political prisoners · wider the Defence of
India Act Quest.ion ,:e preponderance of Muslims in the Education
Department.at Bhakkar Question re preponderance of Muslims on the staff of
Bhakkar . Question re President, Chiniot Municipal Committee,
i. . and execution of new works . . . ·Question re punishment of dishonest or corrupt officials
·. _. in the Jail. Department Question re punishment of officials iD the Jail Depart-
t;.'.~ ment •• ••
INDEX.
··-~
1269 ,1270
727
723 724
117Q. 887-88
1087-88 1088-89·
1299
1084,
1092 .. 975-76, 1170-71
1085 1091
884, 1166
1296 1891
1092-93:
] 166-67
1890·
721-22
129a
PAdE!I.
78
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-CONTINUED,
BODH RAJ, LALA-coNCLtrn1m.
INDEX. VoL. X-B.-]
Question re Punjab Jail Enquiry Committee Question re Lala Ram Saran Dass, H. A., of Kapur
thala .. Question re reconciliation of Nazir Hussain with 'I'alib
Hussain through Suh-Inspector of Police Question re reduction of subordinates in Engineering
Service Question re rent on account of Ihatas in Jalalpur Pir
wala .. Question re restriction of term of membership of er
otfirfo members of Small '!'own Committees Quistion re Road Tax in Kot Adu Question re sales of lands by the Court of Wards in
Jalalpur Pirwala . . 1090-91 Question re sale of land to Sardar Kirpal Singh 886 Question re Secretary, Chiniot Municipal Committee 1289-90 Question re Small Town Committee, Jalalpur Pirwaln .. 1089-90, 1091-92 Question re Small Town Committee of Jaranwala 885 Question re Mr. Smythe, Sub-Divisional Officer 1381-82 Question re staff of the Small Town Committee, Jalalpur
Pirwala Question re starting of High Classes in Schools Question re Subordinate Educational Service Question re Survey map of Jalalpur Pirwala Question re Terminal Tax · Question re term of office of Vice-Presidents of Muni
eipilities Question retime-scale of pay for the Subordinate Edu
cational Service .. Question re training of graduates for Assistant Super
intendentship of Jails Question re transfer of Sub-Judges to the cadre of
Extra Assistant Commissioners Question re Vernacular Middle School, Mailsi Question re Vice-President, Municipal Committee, Kasur Question re wages for prisoners .• Question re water-supply in Multan Question re water-tax in Multan
CHHOTU RAM, RAI SAHIB OHAUDHRI~ Question re actuals of receipt or expenditure fot
/ 1926-27 . . . . · . . . . v Question re admission of members of backward classes to
Central Training College Question re agriculturists in the Judicial Service
735-86 742
1204
1202-0S 1287
741 1267-68
1 738
740
1267
1267 732 734 727
1265-66 743
732-33
1269 739 730 738
781-32 1272 741 729 789 731
1270 742 735
1263
1270
1269 727
1204-05 788-39"
P.A.GBS.
[Voi.. X.B.
-,~~···--···, .... , ..... -.-
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS----00NTINUED. OHHOTU RAM, RAl SAHIB CHAUDHRI-coNTINUED,
Question re agriculturists in Public Service ... Question re Amritsar Medical School Question re appointment of a Hindu J at as Inspector of
. Police .. Question re appointment of an Indian Deputy Secretary,
Revenue Department Qu~stion re Bhakra Dam Scheme ·
· Question re· building grant for Primary schools .) Question re Central Training College ..
-Question re Civil Judicial Branch of the Provincial Service
-Question re Clerks in the Deputy Commissioner's Office, Rohtak
·Question re communal representation in Provincial Services
·Question re communal representation in Subordinate Educational Service
·Question re consolidation of holdings ·Question re cotton ..
- ·Question re cotton crop .. J Question re District Inspectors and Assistant District
Inspectors of Schools -Question re Government Scholarships ·Question re Government Tannery at Shahdara •Question re grant of concession of haJI fees to agri-
culturists ·Question re Inspector of Police .. ·Quest.ion.re inter-village communications ·Question re Judicial Branch of the Provincial Service Question re Kahuta Farm Question re Matriculation Examination Question re metalled roads Question re Military grantees .. Question re Military tribes Question re Model Bastis Question re Moneylenders' Bill Question Te Mortality Question re Muslim Sessions Judges Question re nominated members of the Council and
voting ·Question re number of working days in the Secretariat,
etc., offices Question re opening of Junior Anglo-Vernacular Training
classes in Government Intermediate College, Rohtak .. Question re ordinary Expenditure for 1926-27
· ,Question re payment for Watch and Ward .. Question re Police and Judicial Branches of Service
INDEX.
•' <•:"."-':'t'.'~,··~-·- '' -·. _._ .• ., •••
1276 1819
1265 728
728-29 · 741,42
740 .1269
780-81 1271 1271 780 780 1203 '732
786-87
1263-64 · 787
727-28
728
1272
1264 1265
1264-65 740
1272 781
788-34
1268-04
18
L_·_
•QUES11QNS AND ANSWERS-ooNnNUBD, -OHHOTU RAM RAI SAHIB CHAUDHRI-ooNOI,UDED,
Question re powers of Ministers, regarding appointments and dismissals
Question re power of a. 'Minister to over-rule a. Commis sioner or a Head of a. Department
-Question re powers of Ministers to take disciplinary action
Question re Primary and Middle Schools Question re private tuition .. Question re Pa.nchayats Question re Rabi crop
. Question t'e Lala Ra.tan Lal, a candidate for Public Pro- secutorship . . . • • •
Question re recommendations of the Joint Select Com· mittee of Parliament regarding voting by official members
Question re recruitment for clerk's posts Question re Regulation of Accounts Bill Question re representation of zamindars in the Excise
Department Question re results of Intermediate Examination for
Government and D.-A. V. Colleges Question re right of audience of Secretary or Head of a
Department with Governor .. Question re Rohtak-Bhiwani Railway Question re Rohtak-Bhiwani and Bohtak-Hansi roads .. Question re rural dispensaries .. Question re schools for adults ..
'Question re schools receiving grants-in-aid .. Question re selection of sails for concentration of the
activities of beneficent departments Question re strength of High Court Judges and disposal
of cases Question re Sub-Judges Question re Temperance Associations Question re total prohibition .. Question re variations between the estimates and actuals
of income and expenditure . . · Question re wheat elevator at Lyallpur Question re zamindars and non-zamindars in certain
classes of public service
])ALPAT .sr~GH, SARDAR BAHADDH CAPTAIN
Question re appointment of demobilized educated combatant youths
Question re appointment of demobilized officers
INDEX. "'V ot. X .. B. ]
746. - 747" · 747·
745-46;
1047-48
1048-49- 1044
1048
104!),
104'i 1048. 1049-
1374: ,
. 4
1374 1372-78-
1374. 1375, 137$.
1373-74
1006:
1036,
1096. 1287-88
1096..
1106-01 108&. ··.·
,Question re Hindus in the Police Department .. Question r~ . Police- post at Ferozepore City Railway
Station · Question re)?olice Station at Moga Question r~ . supply of copies of . Judicial records for
private use DIN :MUHAIDUD, Ma.-
Question re-appointment in Education Services Question re circular regarding Educational officers
and private publications Question re College of Indian Medicines .. Question re compensation to owners of land damaged
by Sero Question re Muslim representation in Branch dis
pensaries Question re opening an Intermediate College in Julluudur
City .. . Question re Regulation of Accounts Bill Question re Text-Book Committee
DULi CHAND OHAUDHIU- Question ,.; damage to lands and wells by floods in the
Jumna Question '>"e: grant of land in !\iii Bar to zamindara of
certain water-logged areas Question re Honorary Magistrates . Question re mortality from fever in flood-affected areas · Question re Ods Question re Police in the Kamal District .. Question re Qanungos in the Kamal District
FAIZ MUHAMMAD, SHAIKH- Question re Additional Police for Lahore .. Question re communal representation in the Education
Department Question re contract for the publication of books pre-
pared by the Education Depa.rtment .. Question re failure of crops in the Sangha.r Tahsil Question re Geography of the Punjab Question re Chaudhri Gyan Singh, Inspeetorof Schools,
Lahore Division .. Question re land revenue in Sanghar Tahsil
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS--'CONTiNtJED. DALPAT SINGH, SARDAR B.AIIADUR. CAPTAIN-ooNCLUDED.
I •
Question re employment of retired military officers as . · Sub-Registrars .. • · · · ~ 127fr
Question re Military· 'grantees and Military Jagi~ grantees · 1275·76
DAULAT RAl\:I, KALIA, RAI BAHADUR PANDIT-
INDEX.
... "'"""~'"' .... ~ ••.• ,._ ·""'!":="io:!""'i"" "'
1812
1180
1180-Sl 984
108fl, 11.82
1179-80
- 1083
1182
1088-84 984-85
1178-79
988-84
1371-72 1367-71
1871
1044·
1007
1106
.1107
1096
1006-07
1288 1107
1107
1108-09 . 748, 883
PAGES,
QUESTIONS AND ANSWE~CONTINUED. FAIZ MUHAMMAD, SHAIKH-coNCLUDED.
Question re Musalman Inspector of Schools Question renew appointments in· the Provincial and
Subordinate .Educational Service Question re Khan Bahadur Shaikh -Nur Ilahi, Divisional
Inspector Question re posting of Inspectors and Deputy Inspectors
of Schools on communal basis Question re printing of the proceedings of the Punjab
Text-Book Committee Question re q ualifications for employment in Police
Force Question re relief to the poor zamindars and Lambar
dars .. Question re remission of school fees Question re Reporter on Books and Professor of Zoology
in the Government College, Lahore Question re representation of }Iuslims in the various
Intermediate Colleges . . . • • , • Question re tuition fee
FATEH SlNGH, SARDAR SAHIB SARDAR Question re financial position of District Boards Question re outlets for canal water to District Board,
Ferozeporo Question re· rural games
FIROZ-UD-DIN, KHAN RANA- Question re admission to the Agricultural College,
Lyallpur Question re agricultural College, Lyallpur Question re amritsar-Pathankot Road Question re appointments in the Provincial Educational
· Service · . . . . , , · · Question re appointment of the officiating Director of
Agriculture Question re appointments to the Superior Agricultural
· Service Question re arms licenses to Muslims in Rohtak Dis_.
trict .. Question re communal representation in the clerical
establishment of Lower Chenab Canal Question re confiscation of arms license of certain
Pathans Question re Copying Examiners of Deputy Commis-
sioner's 0ffice · Question re Development Board Question re Fruit and Millet Specialists
INDEX. Vor.. X-B •. ]
1196 899
1031 1108
1215-17 .1104
1103
1102 1108 1197 1105
1031-32
1202' 1049
1196-97 910-11
1105 1030-31
1104 899-900
1812
1318
1318
983
983 1181
1179
PAGES.
[Vot. X.B.
'QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-CONTINUED, FI'ROZ-UD,DIN KHAN, RANA-coNOLUDBD,
INDEX
Question re grant-in-aid Question re S. Labh Singh, Associate Professor of Agri-
culture .. 1082-83.1181-82 Question re Liquor shops 1394-95 Question re Muslim Headmasters 984 Question re Muslim Sub-Assistant Surgeons in Lyallpur 1181 Question re opening of new liquor shops . . . . 1280 Question re Panchayat Conference _ 983 'Question re Professors in the Government Intermediate
Colleges . 'Question re scale of pay for copying examiners .. ·Question re supply of drinking water in villages Bhur-
tana, Kirawar and Alakpura . . • ; Question re transfer in the clerical establishment in the .
Lower Chenab West Circle .• Question re transfer of Non-Gazetted officers in the
Irrigation Department Question re vacancies in the clerical establishment of
the Lower Chenab Canal f{,ANGA RAM RAI SAHIB, LALA.-
Question re action against l{hilafat newspaper for its allegations against police ..
· Question re appointment of vaccinations ·Question re Banaspati Ghi Question re Barda Faroshi
·Question re cattle-breeding .. 'Question re Civil Assistant Surgeons ,Question re gra;,;ing common •• Question re Haisiat Tax Question re Hindi 'I'eachers in Vernacular Middle Schools
in Ambala -"' Question re inconvenience to certain Railway passengers
at Panipat ·Question re infantile mortality .. Question re injustice to Hindu teachers Question re Jerked beef Question re kachcha road from Bilaspur to G opalmo-
chana Question re land tilled by plough cattle
·Question re milk supply Question re motor accident at the level-crossing near
Verka Question re newspapers -Questiori re Normal School, Kamal ·Question re pasture land
1124 1138
1133-34
1130-38 1121-22 1129-30
1138-39 1125-29
1135-36
1180 · 1137 1136 1136
1134-35
1123-24 1186 1140 1187 1124
1124-25
1137
1141 1185
1104 1195-96
1105 911
1108 1031-82
1217-19
1029
1138
PAGBS.
79
'QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-CONTINUED, GANGA RAM, RAI SAHIB LALA-OONOLUDED.
Question re prohibition of slaughter of oertain kinds of animals ••
Question re receipt of gratuity by police servants Question re restriction of slaughter of animals Question re road from Bilaspur to Gopalmochana Question re slaughter of bovine cattle Question re stipends Question re travelling allowance of Members and Vice
Presidents of District Boards Question re village sanitation and public management
Act -GHANI, MR. M.A.-
Question re accidents in factories and mills Question re arrangements for Pat.waris attending Tahsil
Headquarters Question re bogus medical degrees Question re educational facilities for workmen in fac
tories or mills ·Question re enquiry into the economic condition of the
people of the Punjab Quo9tion re enquiry into the grievances of Subordinate
Government sorvante Question re Factories and mills ..
'Question re free quarters for Government servants Question re Government or State-aided schools Question re Government State Scholarship .. Qtrnstion re List of Government servants punished for
forming a union or association ·Question re orphanages, poor houses and widow homes .. Question re Patwarkhanas Question re Pension Rules ,Question re Peon's Union ·Question re prices of food stuff and other necessaries of
life Question re prosecutions under the Indian Factories
Act Question re Provident Fund for Revenue Patwaris
·Question re the Punjab Patwaris' and Kanungos' As- sociation
'Question re Punjab Unemployment Committee Question re registration of Trade Unions -Question re report of the Punjab Bribery Inquiry
Committee Question re rules under the 'Irade Unions Act Question re salaries of Government servants
r I
INDEX. 'Vor,. X'."B.]
1140-41 1121 1185 1124
1122-23 1189
915·
917-18 920 970· 919·
914--15 911-13
969· 916-17
918-14
1072, 918
915-16
1395-96 916,
1274 1210 1210 1209· 1380
1209-10·
1261-62
1379-80,
1095:
1209' I 1210
1275 . j
1880.
I
[Vo1,. X..B ..
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-coNTINUED. GHANI, MB. M. A.-CONCLUDED-
Question re salaries of 'I'ahsildars and Naib-Il'ahsilsars .. Question re Trade Unions Question re Unani Dispensaries .. Question re Unions of Government servants Question re Unions or Associations of Government ser
vants Question re lVorkmeu 's Compensation Ad ..
GOKUL CHAND NARANG, DR. Question re Akalgarh Gate, Wazirabad Question re construction of shops by Waziraba.d
Municipal Committee without proper sanction Question re canal scheme for Pind Dadan Khan Question re District Board, Gujrat Question re Gujrat-Bhimber Road Question re Hindu representation in the Police Question re Lahore 1 iots Question re murders in the Gujrat District .. Question re Oetroi Duty and Terminal Tax Question re offensive and inflammatorv articles in the
Press .: • Question re remission. of sentences of martial law
prisoners now in Andamans Question re slaughter-house in Wazirabad Municipality Question re stationery for Municipal Committee,
· Wazirabad Question re taxation on the sufferers of Rawalpindi
fire Question re Wazirabad Municipality and Octroi Duty
GOPAL DAS, LALA- Question re allowance to Zaildars Question re artificial ghi' Question re compensation for land spoilt by seepage Question re effect of seepage on agricultural land Question re Jetting accused on bail Question re measures to counteract seepage Question re measures to prevent the crumbling of houses
in Sam barial Question re outlets on the Makhdoom Rashid Distri
butary of the Sidhnai Canal .. Question re Punitive Police Tax in the Kala Khatai
Tahsil Question re recruitment of Constables and Read Con-
stables Question re Revenue Assistant in Lahore Urban Area Question re Terminal Tax, Kasur Municipality · Question re Wa!i Muhammad, Moti Lal and Seconder·
abad Nalas
/
INDEX.
1S04 1862
1862-63 186-i
. l,Sf)8-60 •.• . 1304 ~~-· ·. ·, ... ':t,~61
1304 1357 1427 1865
1802
1360 1865-66
1804-05
1358 1365 1864 1361
1808 1802 1861
1908 1860
1803
1804 1862 1427 1960
1274
1274:
cQUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-CONTINUED. GOP AL DAS. LALA-CONCLUDED.
Question re water rate on oat crop Question re well boring by Agricultural Engineer,
Lyallpur . . . . GOPI CHAND BHARGAV A, DR.-
Question re Assistant Surgeons in Mayo Hospital Question re attendance of Medical College students in
private family wards Question re Bagar . . . Question re building for the residence of the punitive
police, Kala. Khatai Question re candidates for posts of Assistant Buperin
tendents of Jails .. Question re communal representation in Police at
Lahore Cantonment •• Question re compounding of an octroi case .• Question re expenditure on Jail Enquiry Commission ... Question re expenses of education in Lahore Canton-
ment .. Question re family wards in Mayo Hospital for eyes,
eto., cases Question re improvement of education in Lahore Can
tonment Question re improvement of water supply in Lahore
Cantonment Question re increase in the number of trained graduates
on the cadres of Superintendents, etc. of Jails ... ·Question re increase of the salary of 'I'ahsildars Question re Indian Family Wards, Mayo Hospital ·Question re Bai Sahib Lala Jamna Das versus "Bande-
matram '' case .. ·Question re Lahore Municipal Committee ..
'Question re lease of the Lahore· Cantonment Municipal · · land by a nominated member .• ·Question re life imprisonment or transportation for
life ·Question re Muharram riots at Multan ·Question re permission to 'I'ahsildars to utilize Canal
· 'and Public Works Department Rest-houses •• {Juestion re the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act -Questio:Q re prisoners convicted by the Defence of India
Tribunal ·Question Te progress of Jail Reform . ·Q~estion re proscription of newspapers
·-· '·Question re Punitive Police Post at Kala Khatai . ·Question re Ram Saran Das Ward, )Iayo Hospital .' ·, -Question re Lafa Ram Saran Das of Kapurthala '. • ~µ.estion re recruitment for Jail Service .;..:..r~-.- .. ·· ~· ~~ •1'.1""'
~ •.
I
INDEX. V.oL. X.-B. ]
[ VoL. x.~BL
PAGES~
1361 1303: 1358 1805, 142$ 899·
1272-74 998. 898 8980 921
1197 1050
1074-75._ 1076-77
1079· 1198-99
1049-60, 1199·
1199-1200
1079' 1198- 1198
1077· ~
1077·78- i I
1418.
1418-14 ~ 1075·76·
105().
1414 1078~79'
1046~47 104,f.{6.
.lot&-46- .. ....
Question re Deputy Commissioner, Kangra, and power . to grant motor licenses Question re dispensary at Hatheair Question re Hasiyat Tax Question re Hindi Text·Books for University Examina
tions .. Question re license to ply motor cars between Pathankot
and Baijnath Question re Middle School at Hatheair Question re • Mother India' by Miss Mayo •• Question re motor rates charged by Clive Tran~port
Company •. Question re motor transport between Pathankot,
and Dalhousie Question re motor vehicles plying between Dalhousie
and Pathankot Question re power of Deputy Commissioner, Kangra, ·
to issue road certificates · Question re power reduce motor fares Question re railway line to Bai Kot, Ludhiana Dis·
trict .. Question re restriction on motor vehicles plying in
Kaagra Valley and on Dalhouaie-Pathankot . Road.. ••
Question re tenders. for license to ply motor cars . • • HARI SINGH SARDAR-
Queetion re arrest of-Dr. Bakhshish Singh •• Question re ca.pita.I punishment . : Question re Hela Feetival.e.t..Shababad
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-CONTINUED. GOPI CHA'ND BHARGAVA, DR-CONCLUDED,
Question re recruitment 'to Jail Department Question re schools in Lahore Cantonment .. - Question re social or religious procession in Mult.an Question re Sub-Divisional Officer, Khanewal Question re Sub-Judges
HABIB ULLAH, SARDAB- Question re communal riots at Lahore Question re flood havoc in Ilaqa Bait
· Question re Money Lenders' Bill Question re Pension Rules Question re Prosecuting Agency and l\fag.istracy Question re salaries of Tahsildars and Naib-Tahsildars .•
HANS RA.J, RAIZADA- Question re abolition of monopoly of running taxies
on the Tala Ganj Anjia Road, District Attock Question re Begar .. Question re Clive Transport Company, Pathankot
INDEX. 82
-~--~
1279· 1084·85
972 1279 903
1085 925-26
129S.
1298
1292· 906, 908
1295: 1292 904
1279'
908: 90'T'
1295,
103$.
1192~9~ ·
1029. 1198
1028·29 754 758
119tt 1192
1191-92·
753:
1045 1097
1045,
PAGES.
. .
••
..
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-cONTINUED. HARI SINGH, SARDAR-CONCLUDJilD.
Question re political prisoners .. Question re pukka Road between Jagadhri and Bilas
pnr Question re theft cases in Shahabad
HIRA SINGH SARDAR- Question re ehaukidar Tax Question re Chaukidars and registration of births and
deaths Question re classification of maize as fooder crops Question re creation of Kasur District Question re Kasur Municipal Committee .. Question re Lahore District Board Question re opening the side roads along canal hanks
to public traffic .. Question re release of Gurdwara prisoners .. Question re Sardar Kartar Singh and S. Teja Singh Question re water supply to certain villages on Raj-
baha Khobali JOTI PARSHAD, LALA-
Question re backwardness of Hissar, etc., districts in education of girls
Question re Bar Room at Panipat Question re Regar .. Question re Bhattu-Fatehabad Jakhal Railway Question re canal and revenue amalgamation Question re cattle slaughter at Tuhana •. Question re Chaukidars Question re circular prohibiting · or restricting· granting
of bail Question re communal representation in the Police staff
of the Eastern range Question Te damage to ginning factories of Chaudhri
Sher Singh and others by rain water Question re Deputy Commissioner, Gurgaon Question re District Board election draft Rules Question re eiootrification of Hissar Town: . Question re exemption from sword licenses Question re extension of irrigation on the Sirsa Branch Question re facilities for the education of girls in
Hissar, Kamal, Rohtak and Gurgaon Districts Question re Fatehabad District Board Vernacular
Middle School •• Question re Government Cattle Farm Hisser Question re grant-in-eid to Hissar Municipal Com·
inittee for water-works Qtiestion re grievances of Kamal public against local
omeers •• ••
INDEX. Vor,. X·.B.]
907-08 927
926-27 1004 1004
999-1003 1294
903-04 909 909 905 926
1084 1034 1034
904-05
910
906-07
1298 905-06
1085, 1278-79 1293-94
1004
1003-04 I .,j
I
1 1027 1027 1027
1317-18
1080 1378
989 1877
988 1877
987
PAGES.
[ YoL~ x .. B.
~--
~-. . .,- ~ - ·-·' .
..
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-coNTINUED. JOTI PARSHAD, LALA-CONCLUDED.
Question re Hansi and Bhiwani Municipalities · Question re Hindi Pracharni Sabha Question re Hindi Primary Schools in Hissar District Question re Indigenous Aushidhaliyas and Matabs Question re Indigenous medical institutions Question re Indigenous medical treatment Question re Indigenous systems of medicine Question re Irrigation facilities in the Hissar district Question re Municipal Committee, Rewari .. Question re Municipal Committee, Sirsa Question re music before mosques Question re mutations Question re officers of Non-Asiatic Domicile Question re Police officers Question re Provincial Services .. Question re Punitive Police Tax Question re Railway communication in the Hissar Dis
trict .. Question re Road communications in the Hissar Dis
trict .. ·Question re separation of judicial from executive
functions Question re slaughter of cows .. Question re SQQ-Judges for Panipat Question re Unemployment Committee Question re Vaids and Hakims .. Question re Vedic and Unani Aushadhaliyas and
ma tabs KARTAR SINGH BEDI, BABA-
Question re railway Line from Pakpattan to Mont- gomery . ,. ••
Question re roa,d joining l'lfontgomery and Pakpattan .. Question re Sikh prisoners in Burma Jails •. Question re Upper Sohag Inundation Canal
KESHO RAM, SEKHR.J, EliiA- . Question re accounts of the Grey Canal, Ferozepore Question re Civil Hospital, Amritsar Question re communal representation among Deputy
and Assistant Deputy Inspectors of Schools .. Question re Female Hospital, Amritsar
·Question re Government Schools and Matriculation and School-Leaving Certificate Examination • ~
·Question re Grand Trunk Road from Khalsa College t<>, Canal Bridge, Amritsar . . • . • ,.
-Question re Hindu Deputy and Assist.ant Deputy Ins- '. ; · .peetors of S<;l}ools • , ·
fNDEX.
•
1818 1221
1222 1120, 1206
1228-24 1818
1206 1228 lffl
1208·0~ HUS
1121
1205·06 1117-19, 1205
1120, 1206
1221-29 1221
1211-14
1215 1210-11 1214-15
1211 1215-16
1027::29 1875-76
- 1877 988
988-89 1875
PAGES,
·QUES110NS AND ANSW~-;--CONTJNUED, KESHO RAM SEKHBI, LALA-CONCLD ..
Question re Irrigation Clerical Establishment Question re Martial Law prisoners Qn~stion re preventive measures for communal riots Question re provincialisation of High Schools Question re provincialisation of schools Question re Tuberculo~is ·
LABH SINGH, ·MR.- Question re Anglo- Vernacular Middle School for t
Klorr3kot Question re Bajwat Ilaqa in the Sialkot District Question re bridge over Bhimber Nala on the Gujrat
- Kunjah Road Quest,ion re drainage Scheme for Shadi wai .. Question re Khal Khudai Ohsrges Question re removal of earth by the canal depart
ment .. MA YA DAS, :\fH. E.-
Question re assistance for students seeking employ· .: L9ent ..
Quest.ion re backward communities Question re bridges on_ Rajbahas of Moga-Kot Kapura
Road .. · Question re Cattle Fairs Question re census of ploughs .. Question 1·e Christian representation on Municipal Com-
mittees Question 1·e death of animals due to h-emorrhsgic
Septicannia Question re education of depressed classes .. Question re facilities -Ior st.udents to earn money in
spare time Qliestion re grants to District Boards Question re maintenance charges and yield of milk of
cows and buffaloes Question re m~king ot numbers on roadside trees Qtt&tion re motor lorries licensed by the Moga Muni
eipal-Committee .. Question re Sikh Kanya Maha Vidyala, Ferozepore
city .. {Jnestion re statistics regarding height- and weight of
boys . • _ Question re treatment of animals at. the Veterinary , · College, Lahore .• Question re utility of wind mills for commercial pnq)oses ··
\.
INDEX~ V~. X-B.']
-~ ~- "
1896" 14()9-,
1011,)8 · 1403.
isli·
I I I ' 1 I I
I l
1316;
1899'
140S
1401' 1403'.
_1406-0T
. 1396-99•
985-8G:
10'14- 992
1008-09, 14J09-10, 1011 1018-
189(;; 6
11,20,
11261-21' 120&,0T 1~24:~25 . . . 1908,
- - .. r .. ~- . .
P.lOR8 •..
.·, li
. Questjcon re applications for copies of Judicial Records .. Question re appointments in the lrovincial Educational
Service Question re ap-1.>Pin.tmerttfl in .the.Bnbordinet« Eduoa-
ti$nl\l Service · . . . . . . . . Qtti."stion re appointment of Extra, .;\ssilltani. Commis-.
sioners and Subr.JU'dg~a ' Question re appointment of Indian as Registrai', Lahore
High Court, . Que11tion re a ppointment of. Indians as Becretsries, etc.,
in the Secuta.riat .. Q11estion re appointment ofIndiaus as Secretaries, f'tc ...
· Question re appQintmfmtr,pf .offieers 0f.-the Punjab to Government of India, Political Department
Qliestion re appointment. of . .Pr~wine~l.r.Civil Service officers to liated. post..s : ·
Qcastion re audit of the accounts of the Grey Canal Department ·
Question re barato- Prov,inqial,-Ciyil,,Seryfoe., o.flfoe.rs. to .. : holdioertain posts. . · ·,· ·· Qta.estion re calculation of.serviee 9f. 'I'emposary- Addi-;
tional and sub. pro--tem; E~ha. , Assistant .. Oommis : sioners Question re change of. dasig.qation i of · Deputy pommia-;.
sioner and Financial Commissioners . . . . . . Question re civilpensiens . . , Qa~ation re Clinical Assist~p.t, King Edward Medical
· College, Lahorer . . . ... ~e$tmn re commutation of ll(l.ll.Bions . . •.•. QGNtion re com.pl!lint ~fi-rthf;>. -.-SupE>,rint,e114~~t of;i; ..
the Grey Canals
Question re abolition of Divisional Commissioners· . Qtiestiou re admissinn into Government educational
institutions on communal basis Question re admission to Training J nstitutions Qrie~tion re Arnbala Cantonment Board
QUES DONS AND ANsWERS::::...coNTI~:- .K~: DAS M~.~OONCL1P.!'!•.
Q~tion re V ~t.erinar.v College, La~f~,. . . Question re vo~frs ~f.,{hejf¥~b ·:Lfl~i~Iu-tive CouMiL Question re w~lJs Q~tion re w~Us in the Jullu~~r;Dis~·ick. Qµestion re wr)Is in Jn!lundur District.affootec!.h.1,. water>
table· ..
MOHAN LAL, LJLA+-
! .
INDEOC~.
·• ., ~ . .,.~·· •.... ·· _· ·•··-~···.-·~·.··•·•.• .... , ... , .. ..._..~"":".~•...,.,..,. --W-.>-F· · ... ,. ~.....,,..,. .. \:. ., .... __ , ..... ,, r.-. ·- .. :.··.·._ .. -·-'!""-~--
.. ,,j ; ·!
; I
<. 8'i
Plt/GJ,- A BS. · ~---
~
9~if 9~1 9 L
16~~i~ 1081
992 .
1010
1~9 1 :?
1~ 1061 989
·~~~-
Idfo ~~1
• 1
iJd2 I
·"1- 1ct&t!!
:ail ··· .. ·
1Jdo 1cnt~4
.· .. ~r ,:d
-------------··
'',.. -
QUESTIONS AND:.~ooi-riffik'· MO~N LAL, LALA-CONTINUED. . . ' .: . . '
· . Quest~on re Co-operative Socieiie~. for 1dJpr~s~bcf~:~¥~~1·,
~ Qt1en'lt10n re depressed olesses m the Police Dephrt· · ment . . · ... . . . • -
Q.u.estion re di-inking water in'thkAnilfala'Cit~ ..... Qµest~on re embe!~lement ~!.t~m,?aJa !'{unicfn,~r:r~~if QuE1St1on re exclusion of 'the post' of Una'er-Seeretary
from listed posts . . . . . . . . Question re Govetninent· Hosiery 'Institute,· Lltdfii'anlt': . · Q:u_estion 1·e Hosiery. Exl?ert. .. : . . .. . . ,. . , ~ .: . Question re Hosiery . Su jj;lJonimittee of the lrid d~tnes'
.Development Bo~rd . : . . .. ·. .. .. . . : : . . Question re inconie of'Muiii&p·11r Conmiittees''unt.ler
c~tain heads . . . . . . • .. Question re Indian-Civil; Seftice aiid' Prohdctif Civif"
Service Question re IntHa'ii.i'sation ·flf ;Ser1ices .. . . . . Q1iest~on re ~~?t~rit_ in_,tp~ c,?:&Per,a,tive ·'Depail\{riiefit !.
Question re J om't FinaM1al Sootet;a.ry . . . . . •. '.,.,~,Ql@f,01,1 re ma.chin!~, fo~}:Iosiett) 1ns~jt~te. ~t. Ludhia°8: .:
Question re ~h1fl'ety for ~t~"'pro~s . . . . . _, .. 1• Question re Matriculation and School-Lea.vin''g'~N~~"te J ..
Examination . . . . · . i 1
· · -, Question re Metnll~i's"o{ 'E:iectitiVe ·couhiit . . . 'J Qdesti<fu' re Municipal Committee and Pi>fi~'or'bha1i~!1
. ' : .da~ charges. . . . . . . . . . . . Qdestion re Normal Schools hi Ra'watpib'di!'. Ql1Mtion re Pension BulMi"" . . · . . . . . Question re prev~ntion'.'ofbidi<Jr'.~id~rit~1:': _ • __ .•:
. Quest~on re putb'ir~t ofl~tbre !or"~h'e.'J{6'siatf ~~titb,a,'.\ ;; . . Qhest1on re recruitment of Provm61af' Sel'Vtee0bM&%' ·
to Indian Civil Service Gadre . · · • • . . : __ Qbestion re reservation of"1a.pW1rltklful,n.url.d\B:c-~.tliifl· p · Government -of India AM'" . . ' .. .' · ; . ''
Question re relll'e'riiine'' of:'mijn\Yferi,I orJnatAif''; Ci'WJJ ... Service on preportiona.~l 'pMrffiM,{'r . : · • . -
Question re roiidt}>~gfa.'itima'~ . . ' . Qdestion re seholai:ships · for boys of the depressed
classes 'Qiiistion Te separation of Judicial and Exooutfte' '
~ Qh~~!0: sl~ght~~ of anim~is and safibt~Jgt P~:0, J dhri . ' . aga
;Qllmlion re sqaeres of land to members of the Ftmja.b Council ... : · ·
! .
INDEX.· -:.'{~ ;>·· . ···:.:~ ··:
'V'or.;"X-H.)'
[VoL. X·B:.
PAGBa.·
1407~08
1288
1111-rn 1111
1111 • " 1198-94
1194-95
1097
1113
1195
1109-10
_U95 1110
1112-18 1097·, 1099
1096-97 1110
1110-11 1194
748 748 726
1109
1112
1194
1SM 129g 847
1801-00
1299-1900
897-98
--QUESTIONS AN~ ANSWERS-ooNTINUED. MOHAN LAL LALA-CONCLUDED. .
Question re Temporary Additional Extra Assistant.Com- missioners ·
MUBARIK ALI. SHAHJ SA YAD- Question re Thal Project . • .
MUHAMMAD ABDULLA KHAN, KHAN . 'Question re attendance of clerks·on holidays
Question re buffalo bulls Question re clerical staff Deputy Oommissioner's office,
Amritsar ' Question re construction of a Railway line between
Qila. Sobhs Singh and Zafarwal ·Question re construction of a road from Sheikhupura
to Haran Munara .. Question re educational qualifications for Public Prose
cutors · ,Question re free travelling of police officials in motor
lorries . ·Question re licenses for motor cars plying between
Lahore and Sheikhupura .. Question 1'6 motor fares between Zafarwal and Naro
wal . Question re Motor Lorry No. P.-5622, plying between
· Lahore and Sheikhupura . . . .. · . • .. . • Question re nominations to Small ToWII Committees Question re Official Members of Small Town Committees Question re Public Prosecutors .• Question 1'6 .Publio Prosecutors in the Multan Division .• Question re railway extension to Za.farwal .• Question 1'6 ra.ilway from Narowal to Zafarwal
. Question re railway Line from Pasrur to Zafarwal Question re retention by the teaching staff of their family
members in Government quarters Question re revolvers Question re road from N arowal to Zafarwa.l Question re Small T()wn Committee, Zafarwa.1 •• Question re Superintendent in the office · of the Prlvate
. Secretary to His Excellency the Governor Qb.e'stion f'B use of Government motor lorries· for private
bnsiness lfUHAMMAD ALAM, DR. SHAIKH-
Question re Begar . • · · Question re Bhera Government High School Question re Board of Medicine .• Question re complaint of illegal extortion against police
officers Question re confiscation of a. N aqqarah from I{_hilafat
volunteers Question re Headmaster, Government 1High Sehool,
Lahore
INDEX.· 88
.-.-,.~.-r--- -.-.'f~,---.
. ·- __ -· - -----------
'1<:ltt7 • !J8 1..:89-40
1040
1026 1025 1()26
931
1027 1025 981
1026 1024-25 93.1-82
848' 1800 1801
1278
1278 848
1094 1088
1800 1277 1277 1277
1220-21
1276
895-96 895
PAGBS
QUESTIONS AND. ANSWEeg..;_ooNTINP~r/ MUHAMMAD ALAM,· DR. SHAIKH-coNCLUDED;
Question re · Honorary Magistrates Question re Municipal Committee, Chiniot .. Question re Muslim · representation in Rawalpindi
Cantonment Board · . . . . . . Question te nomination M a teacher of Islamia School
to the Chiniot Municipality Question re nomination of Mr. Fakhar-ud-Din to
Ohiniot Municipality· Question re nomination of non-Khojas to Chiniot
Municipality Question re nomination to Ohiniot Municipal Com
mittee Question re nomination of Muslims to the Chiniot
Municipality Question re offer of prayers by Muslims during office
hours Question re private tuitions
"Question-re, promotions of teachers in the Bhera Govern- ment High School
Question re Rawalpindi Cantonment Board .. Question re representation of Balmik Ohuhras Question re right of appeal by members of Provincial
Service . Question re right of appeal under the Government of
India Act . Question re Zanana Industrial School, Lahore
MUHAMMAD H.AYAT, QURESHI, KHAN BAHADUR MIAN--
Question re arrangements for the food of Muslim and Non-Muslim prisoners in Jails
· Question re distribution of canal water· to Khanewal Division
Question re grant of land to pett.v holders in the Sun . Ilaqa . . .
- 'Question re judicial lock-ups '. Question re kharabs
Question re Khol-Kiara 'Ta wan .. . '. Question re land revenue in Bhshpur and Kbusbab
'I'ahsils Question re stoppage of canals ...
. Question re. tsqavi loans • · · · 'Question re samindsrs in the Shahpur Distiid
MUHAMMAD, HUSAI~, SAYAD__:_ ,' . ~Question re bogus medical diplomas ~;, :, Q,uestion re cholera; . · · · . ,·.
- · Question re closure ofLower Bari Doab Cansl
INDEX;
1089 :JOS6-87
1042
1040-41 /
1088
1041-42
1187-88
]032-33 I\
1032
1032 1188-89
1190 ,1189-90
1189 ,1190-91
1190 ·1008-84
1189
1191
. 1088
1033 nsi 1187
1048
.1042-48 ._,)048
J048-44
1042
PAOBl!I.
l Vot. 'x~B.
sioners .. Question re revision of salary of J:1~ww~~pqe~ .. Question re rewards for honest p9li(ie offi(leJS •• Question re transfer of Sub-Judges to 'Extra Ai¥!.~tQIJ.t
· . Commissioner's qadre • : · • ~ · ' :f ··_·t
s=:~ ~;1;:~::~. Question re collection of rev•rn\~0:,\D .r'.f~hfti)s ~P.ml.lPJ~r
and Okara • :~ ... . .'. ·.. · .. Question fe~ ~P~i1J~~ielll~nt .?\ 1J.~9(t,ys.~~1~ .9f .. medicine Question re grant of land in the N1,ii Bar . . . . Q~~ttiO~l rl'e J~te~m~~f{l_te ( C_0,~l~ge: in t,!ie ,Mqµ:~mnue:y
rs net . . . . . . • .. Q~sultiton rlieD~~tirr I tp ,pie, .P..eov1e: of ,Mm1tgma\W!Y H,:~d
- an 1Sfncts. • . . . . . . Question re.-JlJJ~er ~1bo~~.~.n~~~~ (;Rey~mle). in, theJ?u hlic
Works Depariment, Yrngat10n Branch . . ·· .. MUHAMMAp t'~QBt1~L,1 f!ft. ~i.R:-:-
. guestion re Board of Examining Engineers .. Quesfion. re .communal represehlation in the Medical
Department ' Question. re·. 90:wmunal. representation .. in . th? Public
Works .Department, Buildings and Roads .Branoh .. Question a re communal representation dn the staff of
Upper .Bari.Doab.Canal Circle ' Question re Compulsory Primary Educatiou_Act .. Question re disbursement 'of-military 'lieho~rsbips · In
Jhelum District . . ' ' '' ' · Question re Dist,:ict Inspector of Schools · .. Question. re educational institutions in Amriusar Dis-
trict ·-· r • I .. •< I .'· -'
Question re grant-in-aid Question re Inspector of .Schools,-Lahore Division Question re~iijJarygtaut!dn tbe.Nili.'Bar Colony Question re Municipal Board Night Schools, Amritsar
City .. Question re Muslim representation in the office of
· Superintending/Rngineor, .3rd Bahawalpur Division .. Question re Professors and Teachers in Intermediate
CollegEIS, Question re recruitment for the various Departments of
Government Question re Report of the Committee on Unemployment · Question re scarcity of Mechanical Engineers · · · ·
MUHAMMA.D .. S.AIFULLAH KHAN, KHA:N ,SAHIB KHAN- .
Question re hill allowance, ste., to Stenographers Question re memorials of Stenographers .to Oommis-
J
·.INDEX.
.:»:: '
~-1114
1072-78
. .!.UOO J.200
1118 :.928
1384
;1()] 5 .19
11Q1-02 .1286
lti78-79
1098
>J~-94
/1178
'.'744:45; 1178
,."'1"
·'ii'16-77 :1286·
1044:
11091
: 1285-86
969
<lUESTIONS AND ANS~«MhD. NANAK CHAND, PANDIT-
i Question re communal repreeentaiioil , among , tabsil · dars ..
:-«NARAIN sr~qH. fB .. RIMtR- . , Question te. employment of Bhsi · U«a.m, ~hiJn·~he
· . . Punjab Secretariat . · '·· Question re:,l;thai; La.bh Jnngh, -.late ,J.unior :-English
Master, Government High School, Bahadurgarh Question re. :1H1,nit3<ry .UJlpr~-ements . to --Mohalla <lnrdit
Singh .. · .
.''NARENDRA ·iNATH,i tDIWAN ,BA&IDUiR~R~JA--- , Question re"a'grictilt ural"ind ent~dness .
1 Q.qeJ:1tion re· 'declaration of Brahmans as agrictiltural · 1trtbes 'Question re differentation betweetiSsveds add' B:ra.hitlans
. ; in their agricultural s.tatus • !Question re-money'gnits irr·ci-Vil' O'<rurts
· ·· Questioo 1'8"1)'~1Q'Jt tor ·enlistment .. of various · eom . munities in the services
ROBERTS, J.f:6. OWEN'..:.... '. .Question re creation of original side to the High Coart
\:at Lahore Question re y_.~i._l d¥aining · in t.YeN&ntiiie I Law : ·and
;frocedure to Civil Judges .. tJMR'rAP SING-H,&Rlf<l.R --
. Qu~tion re "O'tlnlp\l.lsory primary education in ''Z~il Sarih.. . ..
·.Question re saluting' Government servants .. "Question re w-at~,:f .t,he·movemer:i.ts of certain gentle
men by the Critnfofi.l'Investigation Depart~nt .R!M: ·SINGH, CHA UDHRl- · .
~uestion re action agai.µ~t An~ (Koodd~.:.nd~Ilin .. ~tion re .aetion e;gainst offensive ,,wtitHlgB . in .:-the
/Pl'l"SB •• Question re agricultural farm in the Kangz:a,Ilietriet . , Question re (!,lh1ga~1-ts,.9f·the ~,. '1)~11t·S.wami
tDaya Nanri Saraswati · -tJupsfom re Bsdhis living in, thefKa.n~tlJ. ·District 'Question re book entitled " Maharish] . .qf ithe ,Jeth
Centurv" \~estion ~-re esrtoon in Hissar-i-Islam, Lahore Question re i~l Np~&&tioo ijn ,tLre ~
·~ · , -;.il(orce Question re compensation to the gaddi of the Damtal
temple
INDBX.
...
-977-78
1280-84
746-41 .. 746-
1118, 1017-18
726, 1202:
987
1016-l'T 1884 1388;
1015-16 986
1201 987, 1015;
. 998-99· . '996-98
1867' 978 .92B
1200-01
1201 749-50
99fi' · 1017
995 986.
107S. 1867
1074-
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-oo~TINUBD, - RAM SINGH, CHAUDHRI-ooN:cLunEi».
Questioil re Co-operati ve Societies Ouesrion re cow- b:illing in Gurdaspur Question re Dakhil Bachh Question re dam at Damtal, Birt and · Mohlli Question re di-version of the Chakki Question re Dogra Rajputs Question re excesses committed by Pathans in th&
Kangra. District •. Question re facilities to zamindars for making agri-
cultural implements · Question re Goorkha inhabitants of the Kangra. District Question re " The History of Sikh Gurus and the
religion of Guru Nanak " Question re lng_i'lab of Lahore Question re Lahore Museum and Zoo Question re Lahore riots Question re 'Maharishi of the Nineteenth Century Question re mass meeting of the Mussalmans of Lahore .. Question re motor licenses in the Kangra District Question re murderous assaults on Hindus •• Question re ordinance for the suppression of commnnel
disturbances Question re Pathankot Municipality Question re plying . of motors on hire in the Kangra
District .. Question re railway line from Pathankot to Ohakkic ... Question re recruitment of clerks for the Hydro-Bleetrio
Department Question re regranting the right of Timi to Jagirdars Question re release of Devi Saran and Gian Chand Question re rewards for services to Co-operative Socie-
ties .. -, Question re royalty for the stones collected · from' the,··
shamilaf forest of Kangra District Question re section 144 in Amritsar Question re Shah N ehr, M ukerian
SHARA.DAT KHAN, RAI- Question re communication between Sayadwa.Ia, and
Sheikhupura Question re locals of the Lyallpur District ..
UJJAL SINGH, SARDAR- .. :,Question re Clinical Assistants, King Edward Medical
College ' ~ • Question re compulsory physical· traming in educational
institutions ·
INDEX.: ..
1412-lS.
1412•
977 976-77"
12~
978 998-95
1284 979·
978- 998,
1098: 976-
1411-12'
1410-11 976,
1284
980- 919· 982 979·
982-88
979-80 981-82
981'
981
1115-16; 1157~
738-84
1157 1501·02:
' i '
P.A.GB8.
· Question re - RAGHBIR SINGH, HONORARY LIEU'rENANT SAR~
DAR- Oath of office Punjab District Boards (Tax Validating) Bill
R.ABI CROP-
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS-ooNOLUDl!ID-. UJJAL SINGH, iARDAR-oONTINUED,
Question Ye departmental punishmnets awarded by· Cha.udbri Abdul Hamid Khan, Circle Registrar . .
Question re examination of Sub-Inspector class · (Co- . operative Department) .
Question 1'e fee concessions to students of Agricultural tribes .
Question re grades of pay of certain classes of teachers Question re infant mortality . . . Question re Intermediate College in the Shahpur Dis-
trict . . · Question re Lahore riots . Question re Mandi Hydro-Electric Scheme .. Question re Mandis in the Lower Jhelum Canal Colony .. Question 1'e Monthly. Canal closures on the Lower Jhelum
Canal Colony Question re Police in Lahore City Question re prospects for Punjabi students qualifying
at the Indian School of Mines, Dhsnbad .. . Question 1'6 Punitive Police Tax in Rawalpindi
• Question re removal of Guru Granth Sahib from . Dharmsala Sheikh Chuhar ...
Question re scurrilous attacks on Guru Gobind Singh Ji in .. Light ..
Question Ye Sikh District Inspector of Schools Question re sugar and oil Industry
ZAFRULLAH KHAN, CHAUDHRI- Question re Agricultural College, Lyallpur .. Question re American Mission High School, Sialkot Question re Deg N ala . . . . Question re higher study and research in Europe Question . re Intermediate Colleges Question re Sardar Iqbal Singh, Circle Registrar, Co
operative Societies Question re police officers and Lahore riots .. Question re recruitment to Police Force .•
· Qoostion. re relief of distress of people in water-logged areas in the Sialkot District ..
QUTAB DIN- . . Question re-, head constable
' !.
. VoL .. X:B.] ; .... • 1-..i_:._, ~
... '~--
Question re-, B.A., of Kspurthala
Motion for adjournment re comm~nal riots at Multan ~26 ' l?unjab' District Boards (Tax Validating) Bill ·•• l;J02'-08
'ifesolution re' :diatribution ef income derived from resin -, • to the zamindar proprietors of shamilat forests in the , .
Kangra district ,862-58,;:B~64 :RAM:SARAN DAS, LALA~ .
721, 1804
. l , .1 flffl
·. ,1867 1165
1157>,58
753
·J205-06
1102
,1110-11
1819 747 910
1027 1194 986
· 1050 728
rli:93-94
1279
[ Voi. •• ,t':s .. ~~-
~RAJBAHAS- tQuestion re bridges on - on Moga-Kotkapura.Bced
·:R~~BAHA KHOHALI-- Question re water . §J,l_p.p]yjo ~tain. v~g~ on -
EA.-lPUT(S)- Question re D@grn -
,Question re grant to Muslim -·-High School, Kalananr .. Question re~ Qf,,illagerRathaur
;'Question re· removal of the names of - of village 'R -.thaur from the Register of criminal tribes
lt:AM SINGH, OHAUDHRI-
·~·1N»EX.
llAIL WAY(S)-:-
. Question re -Bp.!1,ttu · ,r'at~a~~d~,Ta.~~l . --- Question re eoastmetion of a-' line between _Qi.la $Qqha
Singh and ·Zaf!J.fWl\l . · Question re <Hesdmaater of Government - · Technical
School, Lahore . Question re inspection .)f Government -- 'r;ef,lnii¢a4S~,
· , Lahore . . _ ·Question re Police Post o.t Ferozepore Citv - Station -,Q';!estion re -' communication in the· His;ar ,.d.istr.ict . Question re --'--' line from· Pi,i,~paj,_t,in, _to,.~npgom.ery · Question re~ line, from Pasrur t<\Z~i~!'~l'l .. ·· Question re - line, from Path.aµk9t_ to. Qha.,kki Question re -dine to RAi Kot, Ludhiana district 'Question re Rohtak-Bhiwani--
.RAIL WAY EX;'.llENSi16N,,--
,) Question re - to 7,~fanval
.RAILWAY PASSENGBRS-
Question re .. inconvenience fo ~rt~in - a.t )?~jpat
(RAU\ W A'l'ER-
( Question re damage to ginning facl.~E\. of ~hl\Qdbri,.--Sher ' Singh and others by .:...:. · 1~92
1408
)975 1183 f •.. , ~- •
).229 1229
925
11~-67
1083
,~402 1361 :.981
1016·17 1209
.. 9r:;7 .1391
,;787
1390
!~63-64
.727 1 Wi:i-96
1300
,J248
1358-60
1208
P.AGES.
.oo
RAM SARAN DAS WARD-- Question re -,.;Mayo, Hospital
! Bli."l'!.N LAL . LALA- , · · Question re .:....:,·~'candidate for public prosecutorship ,RAT'I'AN UHAND, RAI-BAHADUR LALA-
Punjab Municipal (Execu~ive Ojli.Qel') Bill ,RA.WAL COMMUNI'.r"f.:_ --.L ., "
" Question re bar to - entering Goy_ernilltmt, . service RAWALPINDI CANTONMENT BOARD- .: : Qu~tion re - R1WEI.Pr-
. Question re actuals of.~ or ~xpeii~liture for 1~26-~7
. Question re--· of gratuity bv Police servants · · R1WOMMENDA'l'IONS-. , . . .
Question re - of the Joiµt Select Committee of P;ti:liaµlent regarding the voting of official men1bers . . . . . ..
RECONCILIA'l'ION- , Question re - of N azir Hussain with Talib Husain through
Inspector of Police . . . . . .. ,'.RECRUITMENT-
Policy of Government re - of candidates to various posts . Question re direct - of head constables . . . . Question re - for clerk!'!' posts .. Question re - of clerks for the Hydro-Electric .Depart , ment Question re ---: of constables and head constables Question re - of Provincial Service officers to Indian
· Civil Service Question re~ to Jail Department
/Q~restion re - to Po]J;~eJw-ye . . . . . . Question re -, tp r tRe ,Y,~~9,us .,~f,Ilartme,n,t.s 9f. Govern-
ment . . .. · •• . . . . REDUCTION::..:.. .
Question re -- of subordinates in Engin(;leiing Service ".R'.F.!}'RESHMENT.:FOR Ar~L »__:__. , . . .. , ' . . , .
Question re introduction of schemes such ?'s -: in,.~c~ools of· the province
RE.FUNDS- . ·fBESERVED) GRANT · (·rRANSFERRl!lDJ =GRANT
·-REGISTER-· .,,,.;Question re - of complaints . . . . . ..
'_:!Question re re~ova. I',ol : t}i.e names . of . .Rlj. i nu. ts . of- :villag. e '1';:ftathaur from the '...:_ ·orciiritfriaf1rites1,t:''.''.' • ,., ..
.REGISTRAR(S)- Question re appointment ,of an Indian as =» L~h~re;High
· Court -;
INDE-X.
,·
1107 1314-1
.B42 1226 1193
1130-St
846-47
10942-98
842
1183
1308 1211-14
1072
- 1109
1358
iess
981 1288 -
727-28, 898, 1048; 1270.
1383 1191-92
• - 1029
1183-34
1412-13
1894
PAi'.HBB.
[ Vor. .. X..B.
RELEASE- Question re --- of Devi Sharan and Gian Chand Question re - of Gurdwara prisoners
RELTEF- Question re -- of distress of people in water-logged areas
in the Sialkot district Question re -- to poor zamindars and lambardurs Question re -- to the people of Montgomery and Multan
districts nsr.rorors PROOESSION
Question re social or - in Multan REMISSION-
Question re - of school fees Question re -of sentences of martial-Jaw prisoners now in
Andamana REMOVAL- _
Question re - of the Boiler Inspector from membership · of Board of Examining Engineers
Question re - of earth by the Canal Department Question re - of the names of Rajputa of village Rathaur
from - the Register of criminal tribes ... ... RENT-
Question re - on account of !Ahatas in Jalalpur Pirwala REORGANIZATION-
Question re - of the Senate REPORT-
Question re Punjab Police Committee - Question Te - of Deputy Commissioner, Hoshiarpur, Te
certain trouble in Iloqa Beit •. Question re - of illness of certain Punjabi prisoners Question re - of the Committee. on unemployment Question re - of the Punjab Bribery Enquiry Committee
REPORTER ON BOOKS-- Qye-stion Te - and Professor of Zoology in the Govern·
ment College, Lahore - Question re -
REGISTRAR(S)- Question re departmental punishments awarded by
Chaudhri Abdul Hamid Khan, Circle - - . . • • Question re number of suspensions hf the Circle -, Shah
pur REGISTRATION-
Question re Chaukidars and - of births and deaths Question re - of Trade Unions ..
REGULATION OF ACCOUNTS BILL Question re --
INDEX:
r7 -- -- --=--.-
--~
lffl
1842,,M, · H29-55
849-5i 1068
1057-68 1458-60
892
866-92 -1068
1068 ·
961-68
852-56
. 1821-42 1229-82
941-61 .
1456
1456-57
888-89 889
1160~64
1425
1174
979
1301 728
.. P.AGES.
97
·_;...,..
BEST HOUSES-: : .. l Question re permission to tahsildara. to utilize Canal, and · Publio Works Department- • • • • • •
l I
INDEX. V6i .• X-B)
REPRESENTATION- ·<juestion . re - of Ba.lmik Chuhras Question r~ - of.zamindars in the Excise Department
RESEARCH- Question.re higher study and - in.Europe
RESEARCH SCHOLAR- ·~ Question re Khurshaid Ahmad Khan -
RESEARCH WORK- Qllestion re - in pulses, etc.
RESOLUTION(S)- Question re - Clf the Punjab Zamindar League Question re - of Tibbia Conference Question re - passed by the second Legislative Council .. Re action taken by Government on - passed and· cuts
carried in the Legislative Council (withdrawn) Re application of the principles of assessment of income·
tax to the assessment of land revenue (Not moved) · .. Re completion and opening of the Shahpur Canal Branch
(lost) · · Re compulsory physical training in schools and colleges
_ (Withdrawn) . .. . . . . 964-65, 1050-57 Be control of the sale of artificial ghi, (Bana.spati) products
(Carried) Re demands for grants (Carried) .. Re distribution of income dervied from resin to the zamin
dar proprietors of shamilst forests in the. Kangra dis trict (Carried) .
& encouragement of Punjabi and Hindi vernaculars in . primary schools (Lost)
Re exemption of the sword. from the operations of the ... Indian Arms Act (N9t moved) . . . • • Re filling of posts by open competitive Examination (With·
drawn) .. . · & grant-in-aid to denominational scbools (Not moved) .. Be license ·for plying motor cars between Patha.nkot and
Dalhousie (Not moved) Re opening of a medical school for training of female sub·
. aesiste.nt surgeons (Not moved) 1068 ~Mlease of political prisoners . . • . 898-94, 982-41 Re remission of land revenue in certain tracts of the
.· ll,ohtak, Gurg~n and Hissar districts (Withdrawn) .• Be representation of Muslims in public stJmces (Not moved) Be revision of pay . of elerieal staff (Lost) Be Unani and · Ayurved,io systems. of medicine {Continued) Bt utilization of tl;le Government of India's remission for '{evelling down hr,nd revenue (Lost)
.,- -," -~ -.
' i l 'llf-7i.,. l21t1>-
1194-95 .- 9t~lL .
Q~~!~n 1e M{\uly~ Fazal A}µnad and Lahorec--- Quest1on' re Muh~rrall\.:- ,at M,ul\tip':-- .. 9.~apon re Police officers and•La.hore ·- ·
ROAi>(S)- ·. . . Q~~!,P re A~it~ar-Pathan;k_?t -· QRel'lt1on re bridge overBhiml:Jer Nit.la" on =the Gujta.t-
Kurijah - • . _ . . . • . • . ~~iOJ! re. consjruction of . a - from-. Sheikhupura.: to ,
. H&l'6~ Mma.r • . • • • . • . Q'uestf6ii re Gujrat-Bhimber - ·"" '.
1174
10'48~44 98'(
1:?78 1~7S
748
.·l®i.
140d
008' 100\i 1210
120'bOS
i216· Hod~'
127~·r
RESTRfCiTION- Question · re - of term of membership of ~-ojf';c1(r Dll'lll'fbers 0.:~f s_mall town:·~o~_it~~." _, .. ;.~ ....
, Question re - on slaugnter'f.of ap.unals RET.1R1!1D, MILIT~RY OFF~CE~_S-., - .
Q\fust10n re employment of - as ku'6-registta.rs REiIREMENT-
Question re - of members of Indian Civil Service- nn . ,_p,.oportionate pensions
REVENUE- Q~estion re Canal and - a.malgruna·tion · • • . •• Q~stfon re collection of - in tahsils Dipalptrt'and:Okf.n-a<' Q.u~~ re - asses~e,nt · in La.ho:te uroan area· 1
REVENUE DEPARTMENT- Qu~tton re appointment ot a.If Itidiafr·Deputy- •Sooritta.ry..._
REVENUE PATW A.RIS-;- Q. ~~ion re provident fund for ~ ..
REVISION- . Q,1WJltipn re - of salary of stenographers
RElVOLVERS- R~ttle~ Question re - for honest police officers . . . Q_~el}!ipn re - fo.r_ services to co-operative in'O'V'enleht·
RIGET OF APPEAL- . · Question re - by .members · <,f Provincial-Civil 1$en-ioe' .• ~~n re - under the Government of India Act
RIGII'r OF AUD~NCE- .. . . QlWftion re -of _Secretary or Head of a l>epartmhlit · witfr·,
Governor RIO TI-NG~ . Qu~stion re proseenilions ·of p»isorlijrs·in; :Moo::rtgonrery ~Jai!1'
· . fm··.....,. •• •• •• RIG'is;.. .. . ~t.. .
Question re comqrnna.1- at' Lahore Qoostion re Lahore -
l Vo~. X~B ..
p~(l.g' INDEX.
.. 76£5''"
7'J'l:
7~-
1472._ .. 8~·
nre 898';-{1~1
. lltff~~ . oos:
. . . ' 728;99~·· ·
12at>:M: 1825-26,
728 728..:_2~1.::·.
189lt ,
14f-t);t4.
lOOflOS:
1818;
1198;· 1045-
900~ 911 726-
1027' 72S"$
.: ~~~ -. ~
I".
RO!D\Bf""-CONOLUDED- Questiori re improvement of village· - Qqestion re Ka.chcha - ftolll Bila.sp~r, torGopal-Mocharu.1; •
Q\tEistion re. metalled - · · · .· . . • .. , • : .. Question re o~ning of - along .. oanal- b&nb- to: poblt ·
traffic • . . . · . • . . . . . . Q~tion re pukka - between: Jagadhri and Bila.spur
Qtt'ijstion re - communioa.tiona,in the Hissar· ·district Q~eation Te - fr\5ni"Bbaspur_ to .G~P~·Moohna · Qliestfon re -...-frbm Narota.l to Z~al, .. - ~tion re - joining .,)'!dntgomery ,:and· Pak pattan. Qtlestion re Bohtak-Bhiwsni and Rohta.k-Ha.n!!i __..
RO'.AD CERTIFICATES- Qu.estion re power 'of Deputy . Commissioner; Kanga, -to-:
issue - . . . . .· ROAD PROGRAMMES_;;_.
Question re - R~DSIDE TREE~
~estion re ma.ri'.ihg)~r numbering-of ~ Rd~D-TAX- · .
Qqestion Te ·- in Kot Adu •• ROH1AK-BHIWANI RAILWAY-,
Q~ij~.,jo~:: .. f~--- 1": .• -. ·. -~ • • • ~ .• - . . . ••.•
ROHTAK-BRIW ANI. ROXD.::_ Qttffli'tion re - and Rohta.k-Hansi Road
ROHTAK-HANSI ROA.DS- Questi~n re Bohtak-Bhiwani and -
ROBERTS, MR. OWEN- p.~ -Munioipal (Executive Officer) Bill . . . Resolution re control of the sale of artifioial ghi
ROYALTY- Question. re - for the stones collected from the shamilat
forest of Kangra RU~&-
Q~tion re Pension . . . , . Q~n re - under the Trade Unions Act· .. Q{i~tion re district board eleetion draffl ·- . ;
RULING~ . Amendment prop~~g ,-,a ,n~l outi• to': be ·consideted
:~~ive and consequently.irregular unless accompanied . by a statement of the objeee with ;-wbfoh:thtfcut" is:pro; · '·posed
Bill, when publisaedine gazette,no41M>ti61i ·heed' berma·d~·-- f~r leave to introduce . . . . · - · ; . · ..
Chair has no discretion to extend the t-ime limit of speeches : 0.1,1 · motion for .~dJontnment ..
cil'ttii; the primary judge to decide whether a bl.attet' · forming the subjeet matter, of a motion for adjournment
'.is' urgent or not . . . . . . . · . · •. , Di.v~&on may be .r,13ftlsed by~-th&,iCl~v·i! elai1med'•-fffec:l: · . 'toulily
r: .< ..
INDEX.<· '--'.·
1044.
1286 1071
1090-91 886
1427 1048
1129-80 ~21, 1140-41
1229 1147
1497 1 H70 s..
~.:,..:.. '~ t .'~
757 * 767 ! ;_ :,;.,.
~ 1454 :t 1
]160 ;·
1079 J "" -~ (,
14:66 ~-
'.i:1 i' '
74142
1367-71
-;
~
' ' 1506
[ VoL. ·x-B. Pie a
$ALARY(lES)--- Questiou re increase of the - of tahsildars Question re revision of - of stenographers Question re - of Government servants Question re - of tahsildars and naib-tahaildars
,SALE(S)- . Question re - of lands by the Court of Wards in Jalal-
pur Pin\<a.la • . . . . . Question re -· d land to Sardar Kirpsl Singh
:SALT RANGE HILLS- Questiou re destruction of culturable land near Pind Daden
Khan by salt water from - •. 'SALlJTING-
Question re - Government. servants -:SANDERSON, MR. R.-
Oath of office :SANITARY IMPROVEMENTS-- .
Question re - to Mohalla Gurdit Singh, Lahore
s.
RULING(S)··-CO?\'CLUDED- Division not to be claimed lightly or unnecessarily Excess demands may be moved by members other than
the Finance Member, after the necessary presentation .. of particulars of the excess demands by the Finsnc«
. Membe. . -General matters of policy underlying ·a. demand can be · diseusseI only a: the time of i,he annual budget Local legislature · can legislate on a central su hjrot if the
Governor-General gives his previous sanction thereto .. Member cannot amend his own motion
· Member objecting to the moving of a motion for adjourn· ment of business can give reasons for such objection ..
Reference to facts involved in a judicial trial out of order Right of reply to Government member is conditional
on mover of a motion exercising. his right ot reply Starred questions, lengthy answers to, to be circulated .. · wit.l:.1 the official report instead of being given orally .• 'Supplementary questions not to take the form of eross-.
examination in a Court of Law · • Translation of an English speech into Urdn or vi,e ver-!d . ce&D only be ordered by the President and can he so
translated only by the official translator RURAL DISPENSARIES-
Question re - RURAL GAMES-
Qoestion re -
INDEX. JOO
'<'"---=-"'· ---.-- ... ~-, .. _·_:n~:~*·.- ... · ..... ·::-y_-._ :-.-
I
1190 743 750 990
1184-85 · 750
742 919
1211 887
1285--86 1299
741
1106--07
'89
1171 .840
i265~66 1189--90
Hl98 1894 1222 908 7:54 1298 . 901
. ;i88 922
1176-77
1174
-1187
PA.OEB
rdi
I. <•·
.SANI'.l'ATION- . . Que:1tion re Village - and Public Management Act
:SATTA GAMBLING-. Question re - .
:SAY ADS- . Question re differentiation between - and Brahmans in
. t}Jeir agricultural status :SCHOLAl:- . . .
Question re Khurshaid Ahmad Khan, Research - BCHOLARSRJP(.S)-
Question re disbursement of Military - in Jbelum dis- trict
-Question re -Oovernment - ·Question re reservation of - for certain agriculturists Quest.ion re - for boys of the depressed.classes Question re Government State ~ Question re Zamindari-
:SCHOOL(S)- Question re Amritsar Medical -- .. Question re An:ierice.n Mission High -, Sialkot Question re Anglo:. Vernacular Middle - for Klorekot Question re applications of primary - teachers
,Quost.ibn re Bhai Labh Singh, late Junior English Master, Government .. High -, Bahadargarh
. ,Question re Bhera Government High - · Question re building gt ant for primary -,- ·.Question re Chaudhri Gy.a.n Singh, Inspector of - Lahore
Division · ,<;iuestion re communal repeesentatiea among Deputy and
Assistant Deputy bu~~rs .<if - -Question re ~]a.at ~afrllfft . N~admastet, H1g.i1 -,
· Kharor . . · · -Question te Datriet Beard High - Question re District Inspectors and Assistant District
Inspectors of ~ . . · - ~ion re Di.strict Inspeeter of - -Question re Di&tr:iet Inspeetors of -, Jhang Question re expenditure on night -
·Question re faoiJ.itj.QS .iti __,. for atuden1is to earn .money ·Question re Fatehabad District Board Vernacular Middle_.:... Question re Fasilka Government High-·
--Question re Government - at Bhaskar -Question re Government -in Jutlundur Division and
.JJlba.tka controversy Question re Government -~ and Matriculation and
Leaving Cersiftcate Examination · . . . :Question re Government Norma] - Hoshiarpnr
·INDEX.
• !
925· 1198 1189' 1810· 1044-
1277 841 991 888-
1107
1428 740
1188-84
848 1098 988 988
1184-86 1100· 1296
740 18084
..
1819-20·
909-10· 926-27
1081·82-
987 728-24
1819· 1389· 1190
118& 1165·
PAGES
... -·;;,·.-:7"'-. ,... '
SCI100L(8)-(lONTINUED- Question re Government or State-aided - Question re grant to Muslim Rajput High -, Kalananr .. Question re grant-in-aid to Sambrial · Islamia Anglo·
Vernacular Middle - Question re Headmaster, Government High-, Lahore .. Question re Headmaster of Government Railway Techni
cal -, Lahore Question re Headmaster of Middle-, Rangpur, Muzaffar
garh Question re Hindi Primary - in Hissar district Question re Hindi teachers in Vernacular Middle - in
Ambala Question re Hindu Deputy and Assistant Deputy In
spectors of - Question re High Vernacular Middle -, Khangsrh Question re inspection of Government Railway 'I'echni-
cal -, Lahore Question re Inspector and Deputy Inspector of -, Lahore Question re Inspector of -, Lahore Division Question re introduction of schemes such as " Refresh·
ment for all " in - of the province Question re Middle - at Hatheaw Question re Municipal Board Night -, Amritsar City Question re Muslim Headmaster for Kasur High - Question 'l'e .Muslim' Inspector of - Question re nomination of a teacher of Islsmia - to Cbiniot
Municipality Question re Normal - Question re normal - in Rawalpindi Question re Personal Assistant to Deputy Inspectors of - Question re posting of Inspectors and Deputy Inspectors
of - on communal basis - • . . . . . Question re posting of Muslim Distriot Inspector of - to
Gujranwala. Question re Primary and Middle - Question re Principal, Victoria Girls -, Lahore Question re promotion of teachers in Bhers Government
High- Queation re prospects for Punjabi students qua.lifyblg at
the Indian - of Mines, Dhanabad Question re provincialisation of High - · Question re provineialisation of - Question ,-e qualifications of Mistresses of Viotoria Girls'
-, Lahore Question re remission of - fees Question re revival of district - tournaments Question re - for adults Question re - in Lahore Cantonment
INDEX. 102
I2
1810-:
104,S,;
780-811
1210:. 1209, 120~ ... 1880
1022· 1017-tS:
114:r.
1401, 1403·
1265 1289-90,
975.
1401, 1403' 1270,
974,
1410-11.
900•
988', 1014
1269' 976
976-76, 1171
922-28.
PAGBI~
108
l
S~OOL (S)-ooNoLUDED. Question re - receiving grant-in-aid Question re Sikh District Inspector of - Question re starting of High Classes in - Question re stipends in the Government Normal -, . Hoshiarpur Question re teachers in Government Normal -, Hoshiar
pur, Jullundur Question re V ernacular Middle -. Mailsi .•
. Q.uestion re Zanana Industrial -, Lahore .. ·SCHOOL-LEAVING CERTIFICATE EXAMINA'JfION
Quest-ion re Government Schools and Matriculation and - Question re Matriculation and -
SCREEN PLAYS- Question 1'e -
SCURRILOUS ATTACK- - Question re --- on Guru Gobind Singhji in " Light " SECOND CLERKS-
Question re - of divisional offices SECRETARIAT--
Question re appointment of Indians as Secretaries, ete., in the - .• ·
Question re number of working days in the -, etc., offices SECRETARY(IES)-
. Laying of the report of the Public Aooounts Committee by Oouucil=-
Question re appointment of Indians as -, ete., in the Secretariat
Question re right of audience of - or a. head of a depart ment with Governor
Question re -, Chiniot municipal committee .. Question re - Text-Book Committee
SECTION 144, CRIMINAL PROCEDURE CODE Question re application of - to Ka.rrial Question re - in Amritsar
SECUNDRABAD NALLAHS- ·~ion re Wali Muhammad, Moti Lal a.nd-
SEEPAGE- Question re compensation for land spoilt by - Question re effect of - on agricultural land Question re measures to counteract -
SELECTION- Question re - of sails for concentration of the activities
of beneficent departments SELECTION GRADE POSTS-
Question re - in the Provincial Education Service "BtM "-. .
Question re compensation to owners of lands damaged by-
INDEX. VoL. X-B.]
---- ---- --------
. . · .. ~ .. ' 1201 916.
100'7
860·61
. 184248
1879·80
1171
917-18 1895-96
1094
! , I j
I
( v«: X-13.
PAGBS.
842
1072
751
785
726
726, 1202
1113
1291-92, 1888
li92
-·······~ \_.'·~~;· ~·-,-~ :··.: ·-~·~-.,.-·-:·- », -.,
:8.BNATE- . Question re reorganization of the -
SENTENC~- Question re remission of_.... of ID8riial·la;v prisoners now in
. Anda.mans SERVICE-
Question re Punjab Educational - SESSIONS JUDGES-
Question re Muslim - SHAHDARA-NAROWAL RAILWAY-
Question re increase of motor . traffic from N srowal to Zafarwal owing to the construction of -
SHAH NAHR- Question re -, Mukeria.n
S!IAMILAT- Question re royalty for the stones collected from the
f or est of Kangrs · district SHER BAHADUR KHAN, HONORARY LIEUTENANT
llAJI- . . Question re -
SHER":SINGH, CHA UDHRI- Qu.«sti~n·re damage to ginning factories of - and others by.
rain water . • .. SHIRO MANI GURDWARA P ARB:ANDHAK COMMIT·
TEE- . Q.uest~on re bar to persons who served - to enter Govern-
. · · ment service . . . . . . . . :S~OP(S)-
'·Quesiion re eonstruction of - by W a.zirabad munioipal committee without proper sanction
. Qumtion re liquor - :SHOP-KEEPERS-
Question re memorial of the - committee of Lyallpur district ..
·.SIDHNAI CANAL- Question re outlets on the Ma.khdoom Rashid Distrib11tary
on the - , . :SIKANDAR HAYAT KHAN, CAPTAIN SARDAR
Reeolution re distribution of income dervied from resin to the zamindar proprietors of the shamils.t forests in the Kangra district ..
. Resolution re utilization ol the Government of India's · remission for levelling down land revenue
:13HW{S)- ' k . 1 d , Hi . rL . Question re boo entit e story of - uurus and the Religion of Guru Nanak' . ~ .
~estion re -, District In!Jpootor of Schools ·.Question re - prisoners in Burma. Jails
IND~:X.
-·-c-:--~.-•,-•-•• .. _, N. ''\ ·~--·• ••• ,
1092
99!
1093
1427
135S
1!381-82
951-54
1296 756
1089-90, 1091-92
835 1109 1092
1372 839-40
1227-28 1110 1112.
9()f
834, 10~ 1104 1105
1013-14: 1103
906-()6.
918
12~ $02-0S.
~21-22: 102Sl
PAGES.
.r
Questiori. re -· of Jaranwala Question re - of Zafarwal Question re staff of -, Jalalpur Pirwala
SMI'l'H, MR. ,J. .B. G.- Besolution re completion and opening of th~ Shahpur
Canal branch SMYTHE, MR.-
Qoeittion re-, Sub-Divisional Otlieef SOCIAL PROOESSION-
Question re - in Multan SOLDIERS-
Question re maintenance of a. list of demobilized - SPECIAL TRAINH·rn-
Question re - in mercantile law and procedure to Civil · Judges ,.
SQUARES OF LAND- Quest-ion re -- to members of the Punjab Council
.STAFF- Question re -- of the Small Town Committee, Jalalpur
Pirwala ..
SIKH KANYA MAHA VIDY ALA Question re -,_ ~erozepore City
SIKH GURDWARAS (AMENDMENT) BILL- SIRHIND CANAL- .
Question re Abohar branch, - . , Question re opening of -
SIRSA BRANCH- Question re extension of irrigation on the -
SLAUGHTER- Question re Cattle - at 'I'ohana .. Question re prohibition of - of certain kind of 9,ll.Ul,llUS Question re restriction on - of animals ., • Question re - of animals and sale of meat in J agadhri . , Question re - of bovine cattle • • • • Question re - of cows ••
SLAUGHTER-HOUSE- Question re - in Waziraba.d Municipality .•
SMALL T10WN COMMITTEE(S)-- Question re election of Sardar Autar Singh to -, Tandlian - _wala _ •• Question re Municipal Committees and - .. Question re Muslim representation in Municipal and - .. Question re nomination to - - · Question re official members of- .. Question re restriction of term of membership of members
of - .• Question re - Dasuha and Oetroi-tax Question re - Jalalpur Pirwala
INnEX,. Vo1;. X.~B.)
..
922-23
1118
1081-82
721 J 808
1221-22 j
• 1858 I
1222 I 977
1159-60, 1225
109$
1181
992 of the Industries Development
Question re purchase of - for the hosiery institute STRICKLAND, Ma. C. F.-
Oath of office Punjab Tenancy (Amendment) Bill
:STUDENTS-- Question re assistance for - seeking employment Question re attendance of Medical College - in private
familv wards Questio.n re facilities for - to earn money in spare time .. Question re fee concessions to - of agricultural tribes Question re fracas between Hindu and Muslims- Question re prospects for Punjabi - qualifying at the
Indian School of Mines; Dhanabad :SUB-ASSISTANT SURGEONS-
Question re Muslim - in Lyallpur SUB-COMMITTEE
Question re hosiery Board
Question re - •• 7 51, 1081, 1082 Question re -- in the Government Normal School, Hosh
iarpur .. :STONES
Question re royalty for the - collected from the shamilat forest of Kangra District
STORES-
1461
1048 1012-48
1043
1223
915-16 Question re - for Municipal Committee, Wazira bad 'STATISTICS- .
Question re - regarding height and weight of boys S'l'ENOGRAPHERS-
Question re hill allowance to- .. . Question re memorials of - to Commissioners
Question re revision of salary of - , :STEWART, MB. H. R.-
.: Oath of office STIPENDS-,
STANDING ORDERS- Am_andment of - 7 58-59, 808-09 Elections to the Select Committee to consider the amend·
ment of- 967 STATE-AIDED SCHOOLS-
Question re Government or - lla6 STATE SCHOLARSHIP-
Question re Government --- 1184-35 STATION(S)-
Question re police post at Ferozepore City Rail way- 7 4 7 Question re police -, for Moga • . , • 7 4 7
STA'l'IONERY-
PAGES.
[ Vot. X-B. INDEX.
1862
1309-10
1861 1820-21
1291, 1316
1299
931 1284
nso 1275
724·26
1180
1404·06 1271, 1428
1035, 1278·79 728, 1042
1166-67
985-86 1267 1007 1085 ·1084
1412 1172
755-56
1050 1381-82
1805
PAGBS •
10'1
i1 '
l
.SUB-DIVISIONAL OFFICER(S)....:... Question re Deputy Commissioner, Hissar and -Sirsa Question re Mr. Smythe, - Question re -, Khanewal
:SUB-INSPECTOR(S)- Question re exa~on of- class, Co-operative Depart-
ment . . . . . . , , .. Question re local allowance to Police - Question ,.e uniforms to Police Inspectors and -
:SUB-JUDGES- Question re appointment of Extra Assistant Commissioners
and- .. Question re - Question re - for Panipat Question re transfer of - to the Cadre of Extra Assistant
Commissioners SUBORDINATES-
Question re reduction of - in Engineering Service SUBORDINATE EDUCATIONAL SERVICE
Question re appointments in the - Question re communal representation in - .. Question re new appointments in the Provincial and - Question re - Question re time-scale of pay for the -
BUBORDINATE GOVERNMENT SERVAN:rS Question re enquiry into the grievances of -
'SUB- OVERSEER- Question re Lala Des Raj, - Burala Division, Lower
Chenab Cann.I SUB-REGISTRAR-
Question re employment of retired military officers as - SUOHA SINGH-
Question re - convict in Ferozepore Jail :SUGAR-
Question re -- and oil industry .. :SUN .lLAQA-
Question re grant of land to petty holders in - SUPERINTENDENrr(S)-
Question re Assistant- of Jail .. Question re candidates for the posts of Assistant - of
Jails Question re Civil - of Jails Question re complaints againsi; -, Grey Canals Question re increase in the number of trained graduates
on the cadres of-, etc., of Jails Question re Muslim - and Head Vernacular Clerks of
Deputy Commissioner's Offices
INDEX. -VoL. X-B.]
119'l ..
1427 921, 1140-41
1806
1086·87 1086-86
969 1427
1141
1090'
1089' 845
1287-8& 745
1890 1095
833
10791 1091
1394
1292
I. 1191
1182
11.12' 7W-51, 1 sio
18U
1173
LY(1~., e,·,K PAGES~
Dipalpur and TAHSIL(S)-
Question re collection of revenue in Okara •.
Question re decorations ·of - buildings Question re failure of crops in the Saughar - Question re female education in Mailsi - .. Question re overcollection of Tirni in Shorkot - Question re punitive police tax in Kala Khatai -
TAHSIL BUNGALOW- Question re Diwan Muhammad Ghause and-, Jalalpur
Pirwala TAHSILHEADQUARTERS-
Question re arrangements for Patwaris attending - .. TAHSILDAR-
Question re allegations against Chaudhri Faza.l Ali, -, Sirs a
Question re Chaudhri Faiz Ali Khan, -, Sirsa Question re communal representation among - Question re increase of the salary of -· Question re permission to "'- to utilize Canal and Public
Works Departments rest-houses Question re salaries of - and- N aib-J'ahaildars Question re -- of Sheikhupura ..
TALAGANG-ANJIA ROAD- Question re abolition of monopoly of running taxies on
the- •.
T.
StJPERINTENDENT(S)-coNCLD. Question re non-co-operation of Jailers and Assistimt . J ailors with Civil - Ql:restion re - in the office of the Private Secretary to Hie
· Excellency the Governor . • . . • . Question re -- of Deputy Commissioner's Offices
SUPERINTENDING ENGIKEER- f Question re communal. representation in the office of - Question re Muslim representation in the office of-,
Third Bahawalpur Division SUPERIOR AGRICULTURAL SERVICE
Question re appointments to the - SUPPLEMENTARY QUESTIONS-
Ruling re - SURVEY MAP-
Question re - of Jalalpur Pirwala SUSPENSIONS-
Question re number of - by the Circle Registrar, Shahpur SWORD- .
Question re exemption from - license Question re exemption of the - from the operation of the
Arms Act
INDEX.
-"9:".
lOT 3-'/9,
sos, 1232:
78(}
1319-~0 1819·
1191-92.i
743
1081-82: 1197
1277 1088-
84$.
926·
1197
1895-96· ·
1192-93, 840, 899, 925,. 1049-50, 1199
916-17 904-06-
109~ 976·
1391 756 ss,
lS90
1s2.ss. 1026
1891
..
Question re octroi duty and terminal - Question re punitive police - Question re punitive police - in Kala Khatai Tahsil Question re punitive police - in Rawalpindi Question re road - in Kot Adu .. Question re Small Town Committee, Dasuha, and octroi - Question re terminal -
TAXATION Question re - on the sufferers of Rawalpindi fire
TAXIES-- Question re abolitionof monopoly of running - on the
Talagang-Anjia Road TEACHERS-:-
Question re application of primary school - .. Question re grades of pay of certain classes of - Question re Hindi - in Vernacular Middle Schools m
Ambala Question re injustice to Hindu - Quest.ion re nomination of a - of Islamia School to the
Ohiniot Municipality Question re Professors or - in Intermediate Colleges .. Question re promotions of - in the Bhera Government
High School Question re - in Government Normal School, Hoshiar
pur and Jullundur TEACHING STAFF- . · Qu.~tion re retention by the - of their family members
in Government quarters TECHNICAL SCHOOL-
Question re Headmaster of Government Railway -, Lahore Question re inspection of Government Railway -, Lahore
TEJA SINGH, SARDAR- Question re -, Gurdwara prisoner
TEMPERANCE ASSOCIATIONS Question re -'-
TEN AN CY- Punjab - (Amendment) Bill
TENDERS- Question re -for license to ply motor cars
...
TALIB HUSAIN- Question re complaint against-, Za.ildar, Garh Mabara.ja
· Question re reconciliation of Nazir Husain with- through Inspector ot Police . . · ·
TANNERY- · · Question re Government - at Shahda.ra
1J1ACA VI LOANS- Question re -
TAX(ES) Question re Cha ukidara Question re Haisayat - ...
INDEX.
1862
1269 751 ·
1299
859-60
851-52
974 1121
1133-34 1121-22
889 1084
1390 1384 1296 721
1047 1288
974 1814 1096 975
902, 923-24, 1049.
916·17 884, 1166
1276 1199-1200
. P.&.GU-
l VoL. X-B •
'THAL PROJECT Question re -
'THEFT CASES- Question re - in Shaha.bad
'TIBBIA CONFERENCE Question re resolutions of -
'TIME SCALE OF PAY- Question re - for the Subordinate Educational Service
'TIRNI- Question re over collection of - in Shorkot Tahsil Question re regranting the right of - to J agirdars
'TOURNAMENTS- Question re revival of District School -
:TOWNSEND, MR. C. A. H.- Oath of office Resolution re distribution of income derived from resin to
the Za.mindar proprietors of Shamila.t forests in the Kangra District
Resolution re remission of land revenue in certain tracts of the Rohtak, etc., Districts .•
'TRACERS- Question re Public Works Department Draftsmen and -
TRADE UNIONS- Question re -
. Question re Registration of - .. Question re rules under the - Aot
"TRAINING- Question re - of graduates for Assistant Superintendent·
ship of Jails 'TRAIN! NG CLASSES-
Que.:iti on re opening of Junior Anglo-Vernacular in Gov emment Intermedia.te College, Rohtak
Question re stipends awarded to students of - -:TRAIN ED GRADUATES-
Ques tion re increase in the number of - on the cadres of Superintendents, ete., of Jails .•
'"TERMINAL TAX- Question re ootroi duty and - Question re - Question re - Kasur Municipality
'.TEXT-BOOKS-- Question re Hindi - for University Examinations
'TEXT-BOOK COMMITTEE Question re appearance of the names of the Education
Department officers in books passed by the - Question re communal representation in the - staff Question re printing of the proceedings of the Punjab - Question re Secretary, - Question re -
INDEX. 110
r -...-----~-~~---~. ···-~-~·
118
954.55
1489-41
866-69, 892 1068
Resolution re filling of posts by open competitive examin ation
Resolution re grant-in-aid to denominational schools Resolution re utilization of Government of India's remis
sion for levelling down land revenue .:OMAR HAYAT, CHAUDHRI-
Resolution re completion and opening of the Shahpur Canal Branch
lJ~ANI DISPENSARIES Question re -
:uJJAL SINGH, SARDAR-. Oath of office 721 Resolution re compulsory physical training in Schools
and Colleges .. 964-65, 1050-52, 1055-56.
m PAGES.
992
1318
1818 1084
728, 1042
1804
1118
1217-19
1175
1818
789 1876 895
748, 888
u.
"TRAINING INSTITUTIONS . Question re admission to - '']RANSFERS-
Question re - in the Clerioa.l Establishment in the Lower Ohensb West Circle '
Question re - of non-gazetted officers in the Irrigation Department
Question re - of police officers .. Question re - of Sub-Judges to Extra Assistant Commis
sioners' cadre 'TRANSPORTATION FOR LIFE-
Question re life imprisonment or· - ··TRAVELLING-
Question re free - o( police officials in motor lorries 'TRA YELLING ALLOWANOE-
Question re - of members and Vice-Presidents of District Boards ..
'TREATMENT-:- Question re - of applicants for foreign passports by
lamberdars and the police 'TREES-
Question re marking or numbering of roadside - 'TRIBES-
Question re Military - TUBERCULOSIS
Question re - 'TUITION(S)
Question re private - Question re -
~NDEX. 'VoL, X-B.J
1091 104~ 1004
90Si 1081-32.
1312.
10,H.42.
1210·
1094
1082,
13l 7·18
1123-24 1122-28, ui~
U99-1200
1086,S'.f
)408
1188. 1191
920, 1298-94.
7So,-p6
. PAGBS.
- (Voi.. x-a.
.. ·,Y:\- ... , _:'I'.~-
';':·.~
VACANCIES- Question re - in the Clerical Establishment of the Lower
Chenab Canal V,ACANT SITES--
Question re dispute regarding certain - in Jalalpur Pirwala
VACCINATORS- Question re appointment of
VAIDS- Question re - and ·Hakims
VERNACULAR MIDDLE SCHOOL(S) . Question re Fa.tehabad District Board - · Question re I£ndi Teachers in - in Ambala
v.
l]N ANI SYSTEM- ~ Question re encouragement of - of medicine
UNDER-SECRE'.I'AR¥-. . . Question re exclusion of the post of - from listed pqs_ts
UNEMPLOYMij~'.I,'- . Question re Punjab - Committee Question re report of the Committee on--, , ,
UNEMPLOYM:f,}NT C0}4l\fJ'l'TEE.,-,. Question re -
UNIFORMS- Question re - to Police Inspectors and Sub-I:r;t_spectors.,
UNlVERSITY~ . . . Question re award of prise to female gradtllltes to pursue
their studies in English - • • . , , . UNIVERSITY EXAMINA'fIONS.,
Question re Hindi Text-Books for - UNION(S)-
Question re list ~ Go,vern,~~t Bir,V!U1,\1;1 punished for forming a - or Association •.
Question re - or Associations of Government Servants •. UPPER BARI DOAB CANAL-,. .
Question re communal representation on the Staff of - Circle
UPPER SOHAG INUNDATION CANAL Question re -
UPPER SUBORDINATES- Question re - (reeidue) in the Publie Works Department,
Irrigation Branch . . • • URBAN AREA-
Question re Revenue Assessment in Lahore - VTTAM SINGH, BHAI-
Question re employment of - in the Punjab Secretariat
::;;;--· -,
1880
887-88
113
PA.GBd
723"24 7-24
1884~85 1208
1120-21
1170
1092 1296-97
1217-19
1183-84 1184-86
1088 1182-83
1228
-1374 1425
1157·08
1183
983 842
1029 753
1805
1299-13()0 '
1206-07
1268 1268-64
WAGES- Question re - for prisoners
-WALI MUHAMMAD KALT1AH- Question re-, Moti Lal and Seoundrabad Nallahs
w.
VERNACULAR MIDDLE SOHOOL-(OONOLD.). Question re Hugh ........ , Kha.nga.th .. Question re ~. Mailsi
VETERINARY COLLEGE~ Question re House Surgeon, -, Lahore Question re treatment of animals a.t ~, Lahore Question re -, Lahore
VIOE-PRESIDENT(S)- Question re -, Municipal Committee, Kasur Question re }Ir. Fazl-i-Huaain, ~ Jalalpur Pirwala Com-
mitteee . . - . ~estfon re term of office of - of municipalities Qne,ition re travelling allowance of members and - of
District, Boards vrcronu GIRLS SCHOOL-
Question re Principal, -, Lahore .. Question re qualifications of Mistresaes of-, Lahore
"VILLAGE(S)~ - - . Question re damages caused to - by fire Question re firing on Zamindsrs in - Khokhorzer Question re grant of Crown lands to Zamindars of -- Abhe, Question re grant of land in Nili Bar to Zamindars of
certain water-logged - Question re improvement of -- roads Question re Rajputs of - Bathaur • ,
·Question re removal of the names of Rajputs of - Bathaur from the register of criminal tribes
Question re supply of drinking water in - Bhurtana, etc. ·
Question re - libraries Question re - Sanitation and Public }lanagement Act .. Question re water-supply to certain ~ on Rajbaha Khohali
""VILLAGERS- Question re grant of Crown lands to flood affected -
VOL UN'l'EERS- Question re confiscation of a Naqqarah from Khilafat
VOTERS- Question re - of the Punjab Legislative Council
VO'PING- Question re nominated members of the Council and - Question re recommendations of the Joint Select Com
mittee of Parliament regarding ____:_ by official members ..
INDEX. Voi.. X-BJ - •
I
-I
,··.'.i/ . ; __ ~· .. f •. ,"".c
'~~ l V?,L, X,8- ··,
P.tGES.
753-
j 1204-05-
~:
1292. 1025, 991
-~ 1371-72, 1425-26 l 988,
1 , 981 1
1374-
1274
1089' 1804
1087-88· 758
1120
108S
i {I
1295 -1
1874-
~ 1425-26 1224-25.
1208 j ·J
1120 -~ ::1 .,
1274- i . i
!
782 ·~ -·
--1
1186 ·-1
,-J ..:~
..
Question re - on oat crop WATER-SUPPLY-
Question re estimates for pipe-, Multan Question re improvement of - in Lahore Cantonment Question re-, Multan Question re .:..... to certain villages on Rajbaha Khohali
WATER TABLE- Question re wells in Jullundur District affected by -
WATER-TAX- Question re - in Multan
WATER-WORKS-- Question re grant-in-aid to Hisser Municipal Committee
for- WELLS-
Question re damage to lands and - by floods in the Jumna Question re scarcity of water in - in Rewari Question re - Question re - in the Jullundur District Question re - in Jullundur District affected by water
table WF...LL BORING-
Questilon re - by Agricultural Engineer, Lyallpur WHEA'.I.' ELEVA'l'OR-
Question re - at Lyallpur WIDOW HOMES-
Question re orphanages, poor-houses and -
WARDS- Question re reconstitution of - of Lahore District Board
WATCH AND WARD- Question re payment for -
WATER- Question re damage to ginning factories by Chaudhri Sher
Singh and others by rain - .. Question re· distribution of Canal - to Khanewal Division Question re drinking - in the Ambala City .. Question re outlets for Canal - to District Board, Feroze
pore Question 1·e scarcity of - in wells in Rewari .. Question re supply of drinking - in villages Bhurtana,
etc: WATER-LOGGED AREAS--
Question re relief of distress of people in - in Sialkot District •.
WATER-LOGGED VILLAGES- Question re grant of land in N iii Bar to Zamindars of - ..
WATER-RATE-
INDEX.·
~~-_ r
-
999· 1182-88
1228 122'T 128S
72$ 888-89
786-87 981
1118:
75!J
730-8.i (llil
J:101-02'.
1274-
J189'
1187'
1818-
1445-47
]07t
P.A.GEIJ.
115-
Question re compulsory primary education in - ZAILDAR.8-
Quesnon 1'e allowance to -- Question re complaint against Talib Husain, -, Garb
Maharaj a ZAMINDARI SCHOT.ARSRIPS
Question re - • ZAl\fINDAR '-
Question re allegations of tbe - again~t Swami Dayanand Saraswati
ZAMINDARS- Qne~tion re facilities to - for making sgrienltnral im plements
Question re firing on - in village Khokhorzer Question re grant of Crown lands to - of village Abba Question re plight of - in flooded areas Question re relief to poor - and Iambsrders Question re representation of - in the Excise Depart
ment Question re resolutions of the Punjab - League Question f'e - and non-zamindars in certain classes of
public service Question re - in the Shahpur District
ZANANA- Question re - Industrial School, Lahore
. .Z.~ILS- Qmistion re seleoi.foii." of ~ for concentration :)f lib<! aetivi
ties of beneficent departments ZAIL SAR1H-
z. !·
, - WORKMENS COMl1ENSkrIO.N ACT Qu(l~tion r~ -
WILSON, MB. W.R.- Oath of office , ~ Resolution re utilization of Government oI India's remis
sion for levelling down land revenue WIND MILLS--
Question re utility oi · - for oommerioaf purposes WORKING DA. YS-
QiieAtion re number or- in the Secr0tariat, ete., offices ••
WORKMEN-- Question re educational facilities tor - iu factories or
mills .... ••
INDEX.
---
1107
.... - 853-55
888~86
998~99
1483-Bn
776-80 8l9 20
PAGES •
_;
162 PL<:'-4Hi-10·3-26-SGPP Lahc:re.
.ZAFRULLAH KHAN, CHAUDBRI Additional Police, Lahore Motion for adjournment re communal riots at Mtiltan Point of order ·re power 'Of Council to deal with Punjab
- District Boards (Tax Validating) Bill Resolution re distribution ot income derived from resin to
the Zamindar proprietors of the Shamilat forests, in the Kangra Distrjct . . . • · . • · , .
Resolution re filling of posts by open competitive examin ation
ZOO- Question re Lahore Museum and - . ·
ZOOLOGY.:_ Question re rep<;rter on b_?plra and professor or-:--:- in-Gov-
ernment College, Lahore . • . . . .
IN!>~X. ••
ii6
