Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 14 DECEMBER 1927

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

1720 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.]

WEDNESDAY, 14\ DECEMBER, 1927.

The SPEAKER (Hon. V'l. Bertram. 3Iaree[ took the clHtir at lO.c.G a.rn.

QuESTIONS. ~.\TIVE BEARS SLA'CGHTERED DURI:-4"G OPE:\

S:CABOX.

~\Ir. ELPHI:-JSTO?\E ((h/ y) asked the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock-

" 1. vVhat i' the htirnated number of native bears rhat were dcstroved as the r' :~ult of the open season during the current year'?

"2. \Vhat i> the estimated value of the skins so obtained?

·' 3. Is it the intention of the Govern­Incnt to authorl~e a- further de ;truction of bears in the year 1928 ?"

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTGR.E AND STOCK (Hon. K. Forgan Smith, Jiaclay) replied-

" 1. 597,985. ,, 2. £139,59.5. " 3. It is not. the presL·nt intention to

proclajm any open season next year."

CONTHOL AND RETAIL PRICES OF SuG.m.

:i\.Ir. ELPHE\STO.\'E (()xlr'!!) asked the Premier-~

"1. \VImt authoritv exists to control the retail price of s1;gar in. the v:_d:Lous States?

"2. At what price should wgar be retailed in th. e:1pital cities?

'' 3. Is he aware that the current retail price in Sydn0y ranges from 4~d. to 6d. per lb.?"

The PRE}IHEE (J Ion. \V. ~ IcCornlCtck, C'1irns) replied~

'' 1. The P roi-itcering I)rt~venilon Act in Qtwcnsland. I have no know!ed'5e of provibions cxistiEg in the other St:11 c"'.

" 2. 4~d. !J''r lb. in the city zo'lc for cash.

"3. Ye':'. There can be no objection, of course, if pcoplP elect to ll'!Y higher price."

DIS:\IISSALS IX R.UL\\'_\.y DEPARTJ.f.E~T. }~_\RY­BOROVG!l.

}Ir. \VARRE:\: ( 1[urrumba) "' icpd the Sccreb,l'Y for Railway~-

" 1. Is thPrP a:1y truth in thf' prc,-~::; report that twenty men. e:nploycd in the Railw&y Department in }\fa.ryborough. han) during 1hc last few da,·s receiYcd notice of di'lnissal from the 24th Decem­ber?

"2. Is it a fact that two of these were s0rvcd with their notice of dismissal in the JYlaryborough Hospital, onc of "·Lom was seriously ill at the time?"

The SECRETARY FOR PlJBLlC LA.\'DS (Hon. T. Dunstan. GympiP). for the SECRETARY FPR RAILWAYS (Hem. J. Larcornbe, [{ epw·!), replied-

" LYe~. "2. Notice:;:. \Y::rt? j-,suod to bvo rr1en

wbo, it is nnderstcv1d, 'Yore conY:-tlPsccnt in the hospital."

Questions. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Aets A m.:ndment Bill. 1721

SDGGESTED ALLOC\TION OF PROFIT OF \VonKERS' Cm1Pi1,SATro:: DEPART1IE:.:T TO ScFFERERS FRO~f ~Vii~ER'S PHTHI-SIS.

11r. CORSER (Rurnett), for Mr. l'ETEH­SON (Xonnanby), asked the Treasurer-

,, In view of the fact that there has been a profit of over £600,Gd0 in the business of \Vorkers' Comp2nsation Department. State Insurance Office, \\·ould he allocate a portion of this profit for the purpose of increasing the ine.dequate allowances now granted 1·o ~uffcrer frorn miner's phthisis? n

The THEASUHER (Hon. \Y. ~.IcCormack, Cairns) replied-

" The profits of the \VorhTs' Compen­><&tion Department to 30th June, 1927, amounted to £533,[89. Of that -um £133,699, tcgcther with £6,905 from consolidated revenue, has been paid to the Miner's Phthisis Account, towa.rds meetin,. the benefits already gro.ntccl to mffercrs from miner's phthisis. It would not be possible to increase the present benefits without a proportionate increase in the rate of prernium ch[ngcd to rnine­onners."

ALLb VIATIOX OF DIS1'RLi3 DJO:.:GST 1; XE2 . .!:PLOYED.

:\lr. KERE (Bnoouem), ,, ;thout notice, ·kf'{~ the Premjer-

,, L \Vill he state whether his negotia­tions 'With the Greater Bri~bano Council n_•garding unmnployrncnt rc!iof have b()en i~naE~.,;d?

·: 2. If so, \vill some unemployment rdief be forthcoming as a result thereof.''

The Pl'{E:\fiEH (Hon. W. C\IcCormack, ( 'flirns) replied-

., I approached tho BrislJanc City Council with the object oi finding SO<flB

means of giving employment. I did so iJccauso there ·was no available G-uYern­JtWnt ·work in the rnctropolitan area on which the Governruent could proflt­ably Bpcnd 1noncy in relieving uncn1-plo0mcut. I suggested that I would be prepared to make a.-ailablo to the Brisbane City Council a suu1 of n1oney by way of loan to enable it to do work ia the m•_ tropolitan area, but the ::\'Iavm· 'aiel that he was unable to atcept the money as a loan., although he 'Vl\5 pro­pared to accept 1t, of cour~c, as a grant from the GovNnment. Ccmsequont lv the negotiations ended, because I could give neither the Brisbane Cit•.· Council nor any other local authoritv a rrrant of money to enable it to rclir\~0 nn-cnl[Jlo::­mont.

·· I an1 endeavouring to pro ... ;idc so1Hc '.York jn g1e 1uet~"opolitan arPa in order to give relic;, Since the 1nattcr was l'aiscc1 n. fevv~ days ago I have found unployrncnt for about 180 ntcn in the Railway Do~)artmcnt around the metro­politan area. but the problem i a mcst difficult one bc<aur;c the jobs are m mnr,d to thr•ir full capacity. There is no · 1nuck' ~,; ork. or worh: \Yherc the whole of the n1onc~r ca.n be spent in ·wages in tlw motrorolitan area, and tn jHovide <'rnnloyment outside would nwan that rhe- bu'lk of the money would be expended in providing f'quipment, ran1ping utt•n* . eil;;, ancl other par:tl1hc-rnalia."

PAPERS.

The following paper was laid on the table, and ordered to be printed :-

Return of all the schools in operation on the 3Cth June, 1927, with the attencl­anc~> of pupils and the status and emoluments of the teachers employed,

The following pape>r was laid on the table:-

Orders in Council under the SL!preme Court Act of 1921.

LA:\'D ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. SEco:.:n HEADING-HEilc}JPTiox OF

DEBATE.

:\h. SWAY::-JE (Jiimni): It is a pity that the concessions provided in this Bill have come along so late in the da" after a num· her of selectors have s'ufferecl so sevcrelv from the drought. There arc "electors in rny electorate who have suffered heavily for the past three years. For the past eighteen months I have visited the dqxtrtment with requests for consideration for these men, lmt, unfortunately. in the rncant1me 1nany of them, who were unable to pay their rPrJt. have been compelled by '!dverse cir­cumstancPs to abandon their holdings. They ''""'re unable to secure any concPssions beyond an extension of time in which to pay the rent. and it is doubtful whether they will be excused from the penalty in.-olvcd. It is a pity that the representation, made by this side of the House "-ere not given dfcct to son1C' time ago. I l;:now of in:-;t.anceR where the trying conditions haYe forced holdings to be merg·ed into large holdings adjoining.

One d thr mc.ot o'Jjcctionablc fc~tures of the Bill i>< the vesting of enormous powers in the Minister. Clause 2 giYes to th" ~Iinister enormous powers that might pos .. ibly he made a machine for political coercion or for personal aggrandismnent. Eiitherto many of these functions ha.-c been in tho absoiute control of th0 Land Court. <tnd no doubt for , C'ry goc.cJ reasons. \Vhilst I a ·rr'e that matters of noli c-." m«st bo left to the crn1trol of the Goverrml,·nt, matters of administration, inYolving the granting of Yn.lnahlc concession.;; to sP10rtor~. should YCrv wisclv be loft in the hands of a judicial tribuna I answerable only to Pctrliamont, and not subject to the whim of any individual. 'J~hc _BilL cor.t:1 ining so H11.TIY provisions for the rood of the industry. can quite easily hE' ~1S('d for the pu-rpose of 1naking political c.rpital.

In thi~ connection 1YC have tJ)(' speech marlc bv thP Premier last night. He Pndcnvollrcd to disparage the Oppo::;it:ion, hut in order to do ~o he ('{•rt1inly n1ndn distinct mi1'statement~. For· inst..,ncc, when ur~ing- that we~ stood for a rontinu ~nco of large holdin,s. he instanced Bowen Down_:;. and said that in that casP we v: r~r-2 1n

f;:;_.ynur of an cxtr-nsion of lr:~sc for oveJ~ 3CO.OOO acres. I hnw• here thn rcnm·t of thP Land Settlement Advisorv Boucl. which ><talcs Jhat nltoP"cther Bow~n Dmn1< con­tains only 453,520 acres, n.nd, if i~>< recom­Tl10ndat.ion, whlrh we are supporhnr;. "\Vere acte·d on the ]ec'ee" would onh. 1f !(ODd

rPason fo~ it \YC'rc shown. reccin~ an £ o.:t ~nsion of lease in respect of 151,00'1 ncl'O'. In crder to put the Onj)f'"ition in a bad lirrllt. the' h~Jn. o·<'ntlcman J.onblPd thr area. The nu('stion ~r1~P~ \Yhf'thPr otlH•r stat<~'lncnts by t1H"' hon .

Jfr. Suwyne.l

1722 Land Acts Ameld.ucnl Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amendment Hill.

Gentleman are auy l1lOrt' c.'cdiblc. That is quite a fair questiOn to raise. Any gentle­man holding the position that the Premier does should be more careful in his statements.

He also twitted the Deputy Leader of the Opposition with ha,-ing inferred that Parliament had outli,-ed its usefulness. I do not intend to go over that question. I should not be in order if I -did so; but, if such a thing has happened, nobody is more to blame than the hon. genUoman him­self. He said that we han; not disom,··od the principles of the Bill. The question of whethcl' these huge po·.<·ers should b entirely under the control of the JVlinistc•r is one of the biggest principle•. im·olved in this Bill. The Premier's attack on the hon. men1ber for Logan \Vas lar~·c]y because that hon. member quoted the report of thu Land Settlement Advison- Board. What was !he board appointed for but to advise us on these matters' It travelle-d over 8.000 milu and 0xamiued ove-r 400 witn€,,sos. It v, a.s appointe-d by the GoYermnent, and the Government themselves hav c pointed out that its na~mbc·rs were rnen of very high standing. If we were not to be influenced by the views of such a board and "·ere not to be guided to a certain extent by its recom­mendations. then there "\Vas no reason \vhat­ever for the appoinhncnt of SL!.ch a boa1·d. The hon. gentleman indulged in sp.:cial pleading regarding the attitude of this side of the House in regard to that pm-tion nf the boarJ.',s recomnH'ndations under which. if good cause is sho\Yn by tlH_' pas­toral lessee, one-third of the origimt! hold­ing in ~ertain ca~-cs 111ight be leased to hlrn for an extended tcrrr1. Becau "-~ we hasc supputed that rf'commendation he and other speakers on his side~ in order to n1a kP political capital, ha Ye en de n-oured to make out that we are hostile to t!to small man. Nothing of the kind. Hon. membns on the other side haYe pointed out the neces­sity for evolution in regard lo t 11is lllC<1:::urc: bu't they have urged revolution. by urging a complete abandonn1e~nt of the ~!-Tsrcn1 undc'r which the grro.t wool industn- has attrrincd such large din1ensions. In viC'"\r of thf' cir­cumstances which have wrisen~ahnost ruinous in the C'ase of some-and bccau~n "\YE' ate as much in earnest as thPy are to obtain c],).:;;cr scttlf'ment in Queonslalld. v. e urged that a process of evolution should he adopted. ·we han; roa-d the report nf tlw board. and think that i11 some ca~C'S lJ- 'vou1d b0 a goad ih1ng­jf its rccommc:nd..._tions w~:re actc·d on. it mn kc'"' out a very strong cast'.

At pcr;e 16 of its report the b rtrd s ys--

" The only pastoral holding:; that need special attention arc those that bave expired or are about to expire. and whosr Jcs,'Crs have sufff'l"cd scvcrclv bv the drought. It is equita.blc thrrt thcs'e old tenants of the Crovn1 hould be g-iv·~n ~o~rw reasonable coacession to enable th0tn to recOYf'r thei1· los·cs. In nnv event, the immediate disbandrncnt o"f 1 heir flocks would not be in !hP pnblie interest."

maintain that public interests stand para­mount OVt1 I' the interests of any one class, and in advocating what '"" ]wye the Opposi­tiDn mc.,.t C'crtainly al'P acting in tho interests of the majority of the people of Queensland.

Owin;>; to the condition of the industry it would be unwise to make any drastic chang·e

[Mr. Szcaync.

in the conditions at the present time, lf good seasons had lWOYailed recently. it might have been desirable to make these changes. Just now the debts whi0h Crown tenants are carrying on their properties range from. £1 to £30 per she.·p on the t1ocks rcmam:ng, and the report says-

" Striking an average, it rnay be said that most sheep graziers ail'ected by the cl!·ought are carrying debts of from £3 to £5 per head on the number of sheep novv ovvned by them."

Furthermore, during the drought period charges aruounting to 2E "· per head have been ineuned in the feeding of these shPep. The people who haYe incurred these liabilities iu carryi;og on the wool industry should not be totally evicted at the present time. If their conditions are drasticalJ v distul'bcd., hann will be done from the point' of view of the ·wonl industry. There is no gaimmying thu ilnport­ance of this question. ln 1925 the export Yaluc o£ wool from Queensland was very nearly £20,000,0,'.J, and !he number of sheep in that vear totalled about 20,500,000. Since then ~vc have lost from 6,GJO,OOO to 7,000,000 sheep -practically one-third-and one of our first objec'; in lhe interests of all concerned should be the immediate restockin·~ of thc-;o sheep areas. That is the point~ that the board has sh·osscd throughout it. report, and whate,~cr recom1ncndations it has 1nade have been in the direction of rcstDcking these sheep holdings and bringing thorn back as soon as possible to a standard which will mean that a sum of £20,000,000 st0rling will again be circul-ated annually in QtteCll'land. That is the point of view that \d should t 1kP

into cons:··~en1tion in discw-J,.,,ing this mc:I.' ur•~'.

~'.gain, the board lays stress upon the neces­sity c,; maintaining the high quality of our \vool. \Vc know that Australia ha~, been most fortunate in holding almost a monopoly of the conditions under which the highest class of wool can be produced; nevr)l'i he less it is necessary that we should do all we possibly can to maintain our high standard. Some forty years ago it was said that beet sugar could neYcr be a competitor of cane sugr~r; that jarn manufactured ·with beet sugar would not keep, and that sort of thing; but in k··S than ten years beet sugar had alrnost ousted cane sugar from the n1arkcts of the world.

In this matter of competition with our fine v. oo1s wo are told that the French are r; oing in for the breeding of merino sheep in ~\l2:eria, and are 1neeting with success. I do not think that Argentina is suitable for nwrino ehcc-p. and I very much doubt whef1er South Africa will be; but ;'\'orth \frica is the original habitat of the merino.

Po·.;iblv we may have advantag·cs here in the wa0• of herbage, bu.t I -do not know. SC',~ing that. the merino shec;) :i~ in it~ natural habitat in Korth Africa, it 1s umvi'c. »hen there is such a large ·number of sheep in the hands of Yery keen rivals, to ignon: the danger; and that is all the more> reason why we should not take any drastic steps vvhich ill in anv -wav cause dctorioratio11 in the qu,1lity of ou·r wool. I am not going to ~ay that the small n1a•n cannot breed high-class stock. I know that the llb-1.~·arras. the flur,"t dairv bre'='·d in the world, were originated by the :dairymen ;n the south coast district of New South \Vales, and tlw Clydesdale hor.,e was brought to its prc .. ent high standard by the Scotch tenant farmer. \Ye have only to look back for the iast fifty

Land Acts .:1m::ndment Hill. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1723

years, as l can doJ to see ho,v inferior were the shce11 · • c then had. They were then bare­headed "nd bare-faced; but our sheep now have wool to the eyes and to the toes, show­ing what has been done by breeding; and in this case the work has been principally done b :· the Lrge holders. A small concessiou gin;n now might .ha Ye a very great effect on the maintenance of the high quality of our wool, on YYhich the prosperitv of the State so rnnch dep0nds. ....

AnothN matter which has not been mc'l· tioned · o far in this debate is the main­tenance of ·the quality of our pastures. Those of us "\Yho have lived in the

·countrv for a long time cannot help 11otici~,?' ho;,v ~ome of our finer grasses are dying out. .1:\:t one time the Darling Down~: was n1erino sheep country, but it is not so 11(1"/,. rrhc same, it is said, will soon apply to the Peak Downs country. In c·Yiclcncc g·ivc·n before the Land Settlement Advisory Boarrl, one lc·,£>e with a holding ;,f 20,000 acres spoke of 5.000 acres on which the gr"<' has disappeared and feathertop

takcll 11 .-; place. This is a portion of C'YidclK'~~

·' \Vlnt. number c·m you run? I had S.OJO on ihc property for a time. I have 5.000 , ere-; ruined by f~,CLthcrtop. Since the feathertup died off no grass has grown 011 that arPa.''

Wo k Jo·.,· that stock deteriorrttes as the fint'r g-nl~' "'3 are et ten out. The question a rises whet her it wonld not be du,irable to giYe so:me additional area of -countrv to persons t~rnbarking jn the industry. There is nothing of n1ore i1nportance to the wool jndustr:7 thc.tn the natural grasses upon ,., hich our fi·ne bred sheep do best. It might ],, a o:ood thing· to insert a clause in the n,-,storal lccscs providing that a certain por­tion of the run should be left unstocked '', ery yea1· in order to give the natural u·a'Sc. an opportunity to seed. It would

rncan a larger area, of course. ill a.rn. That might have to be done

once everv three vears or evcrv f!,,-c ,·oar- -perhaps 1nore frequently. Tha't ;, a matter for inYfstigation. but it is well ;-.orth going into. It might be fonncl advis­chk to make larger areas available under I hesc conditions. andt of course, considera­tion WO!.t1d have to be given in such cases ,n tlw ,·ontal question. because. if the holder v:Pre rcqnired to keep a portion of his land idi0 in ·)rder to let. the grass .go to seed, he · ·oulcl no return from 1t, or, at any r ·c0. r-'Llrn would be lcco than other-1:1se. think that evervone will admit that deterioration of our pastures is taking place. n nd. now that vvc are pa~sing to a new orclcr of things. it is desirabk to consider 1neasurcs t.o prevent its continu '1nce.

The Land Settlement Ad,-isorv Board, in ·dc•alin_g with the ·drought questi'on on page .10, sard~

(, rrhf' administrative que~tions "·hich must b<• faced immediately by t.hP Lands Dcpurtment may be diYiclcd into two classps~(a) matters arising out of the drought. and {b) otlwr matters affect.ing progr; ~)sivc adn1inistration. For practicaJ purpo·· 2s they may be su1nmariscd ns follo'..s :~

(a) Drought qucstion~-

(1) ThE' udjustm0nt, so fm· as is n.ecessary, of existlng ;::;razing sclcc­tron tenures. >D that tenants may be

enabled to restock their selections and face the future with reasonable confi-dence.

(2) The equitable dealing with lessees of expiring pastoral holdings who hayc suffered severe drought lo"ses in the last year, or years, of their leases.

(3) The review of rents that hanc been recently fixe-d by the depart· ment on the basis of wool prices which were higher than the aYerage obtainable over a period of years. and without regard to subsequent drought losses."

That is the principal matter with which we hrvp to concern ourselves, and naturally ill dcalinrr with restocking the question of finance will a7-isc. It has been pointed out -during this debate that a sum as high as £5,000.000 n1av be l'L'quired during the next six year·­for u this purpose. This question of finding money to carry on the activities of the State is becominrr more and more urgent ancl <hill­cult; and~ We' naturally begin to "·ondc·r whether it is likely that for that one purpococ alone \Ve cun make available such a large sum. It has been pointed out on the Govern­ment side of the House that a minimum capital of £10,000 would be requis~te to improYe and stock ,, hat may be regarned as a living area in the shc~p industry; Are W('

iikelv to be able to find S('ttlns w1th such a large su1n of money in sufficient nun1bers to tak~e up the hnd which \Ye are told is falling due for rc-tunption during the nc:cL fi.':c c~· six VO"-rs ·: It seems to mc that 1t will br' cliffi(·ult \Yould it not be better to endeavour to deal. 11·ith the question by a procr"c·S oi eYolution: Of courst', evolution and rcYo1u~ tion are sYnonvn1ous terms to hon. 1nernbr:~::; on the oth~r si~le, unfortunately; but it seem' to me that we might ','·ell consider whether it would not be better to adopt tho a·dnce {riven bv this board and give the lessees kases U[~ to one-third of tl~eir areas for ten vcars or ~seven vears, enabling then1 to hand_ ;,ver their sm·plus stock to the Si'lectors on the resumed portions. and thus. instead of brino-ino· a·bout a total change at once, cffPet a, gr~d~'ll change during a period of year:'l.

The report states~ " Closer settlement on the remammg

t .·.·a-thirds of the old holdings would pro­ceed, and the new selectors would have the aclvantago of stocking up w1th sheep obtainable from their pastoral neigJ:bour. It mav be added that. as the holdmg " adequ~tcly impr~~:nred, ·a lcaso for ~even vears of onc-thn·d of the area would i·cproscnt a valuable concecsion to the con1pany."

There is a good deal of soun.d judgment in those few words. The Premrer scouted the idea of a rd.ention of a portion of the areas hv the lessees ; but the board. after inquiring c~haustivelv into the matter, considered that jt \Yould b8 advisable to grant an extension of lease up to one-thi£d of the area. and in this wav facilities Yvould be offered to ne\v selectors on the remainder of the area to purcha ··c sheep for their col!-ntry. I .cannot help thinking that there 1s a feelrng_ of rfl.vcno·e actuating hon. members ·opposite; but i~ dealing with this great industry I urge that that feeling should not be allowed to intrude in anv ":lY. 1 stand second to "0 one in mv desire 'for closer settlement. but in some' respects it is clesirablo to go ;:;iow!:y for a time. No one re-cognises 1noro

lllr. 8n·ayne,j

1724 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSE:VIBLY.] Land Ac!s Amendment Bill

than I what can be achieved by closer settle­Jflent. and no vnc appreciates more than I the wondcrfni example provided by the ach ievemcnt in the sugar industry; but. in view of the heavy losses and the stricken state of the pastoral industry generally, I consider it inopportune to rnakc' such a drttstic change at present.

The Premier accused the Opposition of giving· scant attention to important provi­sions in the Bill, including the encourage­ment to be extended to the breeding of stud sheep. There is not a great deal in the Bill about it. It provides for concessions for the development of difticult country, and the next clause provides that those con­cessions may be applied to those intending to breed stud sheep. 'l'he Bill is not explicit as to what the concessions will be for those engaged in stud breeding on ordinary country, There is tb0 significant feature that the Minister hae power to fix the price of these stud sheep. Kothing could bo more discouraging to the breeding of high-class stud than the V("'ting in the Minister of power to fix the price of a high-grade ram, Such a provision is very unwise, and 1nust militate against the brof'ding of pure stock in the State. The Bill prm·ide> that in applying for the conces,ions the Minister n1ay inquire into-

" The number of stud sheep that have been or will be available from such selec­tion or holding for sale to graziers, and the price at which such stud sheep will be sold."

:'\a breeder will embark on the cxpendih!I'e that is requisite to get the very best of sires if he is going to be tied dmn1 "·ith regard to the price, and debarred from sell­ing his :;tud sheep on the open nla,rkct. The Government could not lutvo devisul a better tnethod for discouraging enterprise.

I now wish to touch upon the subject of whether any promise was made by the Pre­mier in London that concessions would be giYen to leaseholders. There is a, Yery gPneral in1pression that this is the case.

The SPEAKER: Order ! Tho Premier has a heady denied that he did so, and the hon. member must accept his deniaL

::'vlr. S'vVAY="E: It is po ible that, with­out givillg any dcfjnite pro1nise, th(' hon. ~cntlen1an nu-1de a statmncnt \Vhich cn~atcd that impression. Judging by the attitude of one o£ our daily papers in Qa•_ensland, I think that something mu,t have been con­veyed in that direction. Queensland in the, past has paid dearly for what is called i·epudiation. Hon. members opposite have sought to minimise the effect of the repudiation by the Go,-ernment of ihe limitation of increasee of rents which lessee" obtained under the Land Acts c\mendment Act of 1905, and, as a result. invC',.ted a certain arnount of ca.L,,ital in the industry. 'l'he rights of these [Jemple who invested their money were ,repudiated in the Land Aet Amendment Act of 1917. and we have had to pay for that repudiation. Vie know that the Government, as a result, experienced difficulty in obtaining loan money in London and had to apply to America. It is all very well for the Govern­ment to say that that mon0y did not cost us more than moncv obtained on the London market. At the time I pointed out that the Premier 1nade an inf'orrec1- 5tatement

[Mr. S1cayne.

in this respect, and that he endeavoured tc, gloss oYe·r the n1atter. There is no getting away from the fact that, as a result of that Act 1\8 had to go to America and borrow on terms which we1 higher than the terms obtained in London by other States about the same time. The Commonwealth Go­Yernmcnt. ~ cw South W a] es, and N e1v Zealand , were all able to obtain cheaper money than Queensland. Furthermore, subsequent concessions made lw the Govern­ment under pressure to th;, pastoralists regarding rf'nts 111ore than gave• ba.ck whar; was taken from them, while at the same time our good name suffered. \Ve ought to be very careful with regard to promise< made by gentlemen in high places.

We on this side are just as mLwh alive to the advantage of getting the greatest number of people who can suece,,fully carry on on a given area of land as hon. membErs opposite; but we realise that there is a good deal of reason given ]n thP. rc{con:­mendations of the Land Settlement Adn­wry Board upon this matter. Two-third< of the leases that have fallen in will be immediatelv available for closer settlement., and the horse! recommend that where gaol reason is advanced the ,rcn1aining one­third should be <dlowed to be retained for c, limited period in order to e!"ahle the lcs~C•'' to be carried' oYer the trans1hon stage with­out anv undue hardship. That would be c)f great 'advantage to the public. while i!, would make good for the worker and probably lecsen tmml_lplo~-ment. If harsh measures are adopted m the treatment of the old tenants, it will not help new tenant<, in obtaining accommodation from th 0 fmaa­cial institution~ and cornpanic·,.

1\Ir. G. P. BAR:::\ES (Warwi,,\) · It secme to me that there is not a very great differ­ence between the ()pposition ar1d the Govern­ment on this important measure. \Vhilst am in full svmpathy with the cutting up larg-e "states 'and th0 peopling- of this co.un\r,-, havi'nrr g-iven it much thought and bnngmg­to bo~r the experience of the past. I feel that the "iscst and best thing to lw don<' in tlw interests of the State would be to carry out the full recommendations of the Lancl Set.tlomcnt Advisory Board. 'l'ho settlement of manv of our areas has largely been Pxperimental. and to attem~t to. settle two­thirds of the a rea. now fallmg m eenns to me to be ample at the present tim<'. That woL!ld give the Gm·ernment all the oppm·­tunitv thev need. and in doing tiLt thn,­woul~r lie 'stnd:ving the general .tahility of things. Except in that direction. there Js not' ,_ a,ny yery great disparit? of thought bd,wecn the Opposition and the Government. But, having watched se~tlemcnt on th Downs, I do sa:v that. wh.rlst \Ve may h~vn re"'rettcd !hat it was a brt slow m con11ng ab~ut. vet that settlement came abo:1t in clue cour··e '[mcl was fairly s!ltisfactory. \Ve ar<'-, dependent on what the pioneers have done·, and had the track not been blazed. much mor'e of the Downs would haYe bc0n held in large areas for many more years. I can­not understa,nd the Premier's attitndc of ridiculing the pastoralists, who have been of such service to this State. \Vhat any Go­\'Crnment could have done without the assist­ance of the pastoralists through ineome tax and otherwise, I do not know. At any rat('. a considerable portion of the income of t)li' State has been derived from the pastorahsL It has been pointed out that. whilst the·

Land Arts Ame.odrnc,.t Bill. [14 DECE~IBER.] Land Acts A m endment Bill. 1725

·grazing rents totalled .£837.377 for the ye<tr {,nded ,June, 1926, the Btate income tax paid by sheep graziers in the same year totalled .£883,000. The bulk of this money came from the larger pastora!ists, and other figures indicate that, if you eplit up large pstatcs, you are going to cut dm.-n the income tax by pretty well nine-tenths. What I am co!lcernod about at the outset is that 1 hP G-overnment have scarrcl" been con­sistent, and it struck me that their concep­tion of things has altered very considerably from \Vhat it was vvhen thev issued instruc­tions to the Land Bettl<ment' Advisorv Board on 17th Febrnary, 1927. The appointnwnt of

.. the board V1ras in these tern1s-

" His Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor, w'ith the advice of th<' Executive CounciL has been pleased to itppoint . . io be a Land Settle­ment Advisory Board to inquire into and report upon the following matters:-

'· (4) The ger:eral administrative action.> the Government shoulo tai:c in ~ubtiividing expiring pasioral lcc.bf~~ ;1 nd grazing seleetion~. s'J a~ to-

(ll) Ensure the maintenance of. and, if possible, increase the wool production from the lands:

(/1) Obtain for the Go.-crnmcnt a r·casonable revenue;

(c) Generally secure successful ~et.t1ernl'nt."

l\o man can read the report without feelino-. convinced that tho boanl carried out its id'. structions to a nicety, giving dn(~ attention "ot only to settlement but to revenue, and was clearly impressed with the fact that the Btate would suffer an alarming disability i'f the whole of the lands falling in were imme­diatclv subdivided. The care of the board in C'at:'r~7 ing out the purpose in view is Jnani­fp,t. Paragraph 4 of the report reads-

" At the outset we realised the need of making tlw inquiry thoroughly repre­sentative. Tho views and experiences of all das~r:s and conditions of sheep gra:;,icrs wero on titled to consideration; each had to be rega·rdecl if sound conclu­sions were to he reached. Accordingly we examined and hoard 401 witnesses with different interests ranging from 350 sheep to 500,000 sheep. as well as workers en;;aged in the industry, who, though at present po e'Sessing no stock, rnay be ree-arded as potential grazi( ts. All these ... ~~arious jntercsts ha\'t_ been fullv con­sidered by us in frarning our vrecorrl­rnendations.''

It. seems to me ihat the Gon'rnment lwYe had a di!Ierent conception of the purpose in view, for all .at one,~ they ha:ve changed their id< a- .. probably as the result of caucus ~uggcstions. Instead of carrying out the recomnwncla•ions of the Boa·rd and the advice of the Ll.l1cls Department, they hav<' ha-d to bow to majority rule: hence, instead of meMing the just req~1iremonts of pastoralists and giving the fullest considera­tion to the highest and best interests of the country, they have jettisoned the things that would have made for the stabilitY and betterment of the country. ·

At 11.28 a.m.,

::Yir. F. A. CooPER i B."<. mu-). one of the rianel of Temporary Chai·rmen, relieved the Speaker in the chair.

:Sir. G. P. BARXES: Having lived on the Dovn1s for many years, I know what close settlement has clone for that part of the country. My experience goes back to the 0arly clays when the whole of the Darling Downs area was held by pastoralists. Ean Talgai, \Ycst Talgai, Korth Toolhurra, South Toolburra, Glengallan, Canning Downs. Canning Downs South, Rosenthal, and "v[ary­v.a1e haYe been cut up in ono's life­tirne. and one roalisos what good has emanated from the cutting up of those estates. It would be extremely um,·ise for one possessing the knmvleclge which I Jtaye regarding what has foil m' ed close settlement on the Darling Downs to be in any wav indifferent to the desire of the Gm·ern­meilt to bring about close settlement in ow· grazing areas. It should be clone; but. there is a time to do it ; and to my mind it is positively unsafe to ca·ny out the full purpose of the Bill we have now befo-re us. The board sug.'<'ested the retention of one­third of the areas falling in. but, if I h<td been a member of the board, I would not have g-one more than half-way. That would have given ample time for the carrying ant of the purpose which the Government have iu Yiew in bringing about close settlement.

Mr. FARRELL: Do vou believe in th Scottish 1'-.ustralian Il1vestn1ent Con1pany holding 500 square miles in one block?

Mr. G. P. DARNER: The hon. member for Rockhu1npton, \vith other nlentbers on the other side, was very glad to rc•ceiYP revenue from th,, Scottish Australian Invest­ment Company. This Gm-ernment have liYed as a result of the income rec~ivecl from thl' pastoralists, otherwise they would have been bankrupt.

[11.30 a.m.l

TI'Ir. FAHRELL: I just wanted to make sur'' if you were putting up a case for them.

Mr. G. P. BARNEB: I am uot: but it served !he country to have them as tenant; of the Crown, although they may haYO been n·ry well rt'paicl by what t.hey got out of the coumrv. No one is going to defend such a ~tate ,;f things for all time, and I think the day will come when every one of these largP holdings 'will be cut up into living areas. \Ve are experimenting as to what the area should he. Nobody is quite sure;. No one in this Chamber speaks with more authority on this subject than the hon. rrwmber for Grogory. and he tells us that this is not a poor man's job and that it will take £13.000 to run anv of thne concerns. \Vlwre is that monev to 'come from'? If -,·e lend each man £13.000. there will he vcr;- little ldt of his earnings after be has paid interest and redemption; and the rc$Ult "ill be that thP man >vho goc-, out into the back country will reap a mere pittance. It must be rem.,m­hcred. too, that this is a peak time as regards values. \Vool is bringing an extrenwly high pricP. \\'hat guarantee is ther·e that it will continue? \Ve hear of other countries entf'r· ing into competition with Australia and of comtwtition in other -directions. If valuc·s drop to about half. as they have drO)l]Wd iH the past. then dcuble the area sufficient to-day will be required to give a man a living. EYen in mv own favoured district. where a man c:1n n;ake a living on 2.500 acres, the tc•nclenc,· vvithin even 10 or 20 miles of \Varwick is to reyert to verv much larger area;;;. I am referring to su'ch holdings a:; Bandy Creek, Rosenthal, and Glenlyon; and

Mr. G. P. Barnes.]

1726 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amendment Bill.

this tendency, although it is to be regretted, indicates the profit possible on a larger hold­ing than is generally necessary.

\Vo can only indulge in the hope that success will attend the efforts which are being made to carry out the purpose of the Government to the full extent at once. I simply rose for the purpose of indicating· that my own feelings are dirccdy in sympathy with the pcopling of our country and giving to as many a.s possible an opportunity to settle on the land; but I say that in carrying out the full purpose of the Government against the advice of the board we arc on Ycry. very delicate ground, and we may thereby injure the country.

:VIr. KEHR (Hnoygera): A perusal of the report of th0 Land Settlement Adviwry Board indicates what is well known. It states the obvious when it savs that the prosperity of Queensland is dep0ndent on her pastoral production. It is a sad COdl­

mentary on the administration of the Lands Department that the board found it neces­,.ary to report in condemnatory terms on the adn1inistration under ten vear~ of Labour Governn1ent. The Prcmieur, quite en·one­ously, pointed out that the Oppoeition ha.Ye not given due cDnsidera.tion to the Bill. Every member of the Opposition has endorsed the provisions of the Bill, and it has been pointed out that suggestions made by mem­bers on this , ido year after year are Teceiv­ing a very belated attention by the Govern­ment, who were unable to foresee difficulties which were apparent to this side of the House. It is e~sential that something should be done to encourage pastoral production in Ouccnsland; but the problem is not being .. ntirely solved by the mere introduction of 1 his Bill. \Yill the )Croposed concessions re~ult in rt greater production of '"ool or iurthc:· ~tabilisation in the industry·~ The hoard points out in its report that an increase in the cost of production, ]os,, of nu1Tkets, and fluctuations in price are n1attcrs likely to imperil the financial stability of the Slate. It 's an established fact that fifteen ;vecas ago Queensland wn s in a better position economically and financially than at present, notwithstanding the snbeequent increase in jJopulation. Queensland has pro.gressed, as have the other States of Australia; but the extent of oux progeess falls sadly behind that of tlw othc:· States. The report points out that Queensland lags behind our neighbour­iD[i State d ~ew South \Vales in that our < ,;untry carried only 137 sheep per square mik. whereas in New South \Vah·s the num­ber was ~22. For five years prior to 1925 the inc'rea'<; in flocks in New South \Yalec3 was 7.13 per ecnt. against 1. 92 per cent. in Qneensland, showing that, notwithstanc)ing th" pro'cTc·., eo£ the State, Queensland IS a bad last in the matter of production in the pastoral industry. It has taken the Govern­Inent t\velve .vpa,rs to recognise their error,. and remove the restrictions imposed on thi;; and other industries. Eventually all Queens­land indnsttics will have to be reYiewed by the Go\'ernment in the light of their blunders. The report points out that the aYerage weight of the fleece had increa~ed i;1 New South \Vale' by 1.33 lb. against an increase in Queensland of 0.38 lb. These matters ehould have been tackled long ago. iYhat ha vc the officials of the department been doing during the past ten years? The wooL industry in Queensland is not pmgress­ings. Someone is to blame for that.

[2!11·. G. P. Barnes.

Why is it that all these new pro,·icions arc necessary now? The necessity for them w.ts pointed out by the Opposition nears ago. It is either the policy of the Go.-cmmcmt or the administration of the Lands Department that is at fault. The officials of the Land·, Dcpart­rncnt are con1petent, therefore the policy of the Go1·ernment must be the factor that is tc blame. Statistics reveal the deplorable posi­tion that, while our flocks in 1910 numbered 20,000,000 in round figures, they had not increased in 1925, notwithstanding the facr that during this period our population had· increased from 599,000 to 861,000. That shows that no consideration has been given by tlw Government to the industry. \Ve oan on!} obtain a true understanding of the position of the industry by comparing one Rtate with another. N cw South \V ales is a Sta t0 that is mbject to practically the same climatic conditions as Queensland. In n comparison of the industrv between New Suutb \Yak,. and Qucenslancl, (~uconsland shows up disad­Yantageously. The r0al fact of thr~ rnattcr i~ that the Government have been compelled to dip more and more into the pocket of the great pastoral industry. That mean" that the industry returned rnorc to those engaged in it fifteen years ago than it does to-day. W '' should set about stabili,;ing the i;:dustry, and it should not be handicapped ar!·d harassed by the Governtncnt taking out of it rnore> than ever thev di·d before. Tlw economie position, the h;gh interest rates. the increas< in the income tax, and the high rurt~ arc all factors which have militated against the pro­gress of the industry. The rNtt' paid bv those engaged in the industry in 191G amounted to £757,000, while the amount paid in 1925 amountPd to £1.443,000, ur practically double. There is less land under occupation to-day than in 1915, yet the land revenue ha.' incrtased by 100 per cent. That is an indica­tion of extravagance \vhich in itself is sufficient to damn any progress. The position of th~ industry to-day dearly shows that the more the Go,-ernment take out of the ir ,-justrv, or, as a matter of fact, out of anv indu,t "\:, tlw more the State will lose in the low~ r~m.

The Bill is a good one in the mai•r, but it should go further than it does. There llr<'

1nanv satisfactory features in :it. and dcs'.=-'1' settlement should be adopted whnrp it can b<' carried out properly; but in pursuing such a. policy we want to knovv when' \\."(' are going. The Pre1nier, in the course of hi~ Bpcech 011

the initiatory stage of the Bill, admitted that the policy of the Government in reg-ard to the pastoral industr~ was experimental. It is rumoured outside this House that t'cc }'remier has cverv intention of gTantin g- an Px ~ ~ nsion of Jras0sv next year.

The SECRETARY FOR AGHICULTURS: That i' :ah;c.;oJute nons:•nse. It is only an ird1Laticn of your disordered state of mind.

::V[r. KERR: The Premier himself admitted in this House that th who1e thing \vas an exper1Incnt. lie used those' exact worch. e ndcr no circumstances should this great pastoral industry be e~pcrirncnted with.

During the last fiye years Australia has had an adverse trade balance of £200,000,000, ancl Queensland has taken her place in that category. There is no record kept of the imports into Queensland, hut it is generaliy admitted that uur merchants act as distri­butors for importers and manufacturers in the Southern States, and there can be no doubt

Land Acls Amendment Bill. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acls Amendmerjt Bill. 1727

that, if a record ''""" kept, Queensland would show an adverse trade balance.

The DEFGTY ~PE.\KER: Ord0r!

::\Ir. KERR: I must give the fact• in order to sl•ow that more has to be done in regard to this industrv in order to stabilise the position in Quee'r:sland. Taking the fiyc-year JH'riod, 1922 to 1926. the a;·crage annual ,·aluo of export. was £19,000,0CO. Seventx­five per cent. of that amount was represented by pastoral products of lhe State-wool itself r~•prescnting 60 per cent. That indicates that the value of the wool industn· alone is <:asily more than 50 per cent. of tl;e intc1;est on our public debt. These ar0 factors that the Govcrnruent hav~~ not taken into con­sideration. They may have an idea i.hat. a·• a re,ult o£ this Bill, there will bP an incrNV'2 in the flocks ,'1-nd an incrca e in the vi-eight of fleece. If that is the position, 110

one will be happier than the Opposition; but I s''" more than that in this matter. I have a quotation which ~hows th_•~t some action outside of this Parliament has be. n raken in regard to an t•x.tension of leases by people who hrv. e no knowledge of the industry, and it has been well stated in this report that th<'re rtre many people who have a. pr,\judiccd and 'vrong opinion in regard to the pa;toral iudnstry. Tlw report itself show• that the wool industry will ouly return. on the average, 8 per cent. on the capital invest: d. That is a ,-cry small return indeed. Many pcoj•lo haYe lost the whole of their capital, and. if you take that into con­sideration, it will be found that the 8 pLr c0nt. rr turn ,,-ill be whittled clown by pos­sibly 50 per cent. \Vlwn I was in the Long· reach and \Vinton areas I examined the b0oks of one of the largest stahons. I spent hours looking through certain books. and I also had the privil0ge of looking nt some uf the returm from that station; nnd I Ycnture the opinion that it is not the large pac<toral holdings which have 1nade the lurgc twofit-", in Quecn~land. During rn.v subsPquent tour in the Central-West and right down to the Balotmo ;1nd Cunnamulla districts, I came in contact and had many clisru,,ions with the smaller graziers, and I ~c.certained the fact that, while all these people are more or less "up against it," nevorthekss they have made considerablv more mon<'v than the ]argcr holdings. ta~king into consideration the capital inYested. That is the conclusion at which I arrived. I am supporting closer se>ttlcment. but some considNation has to be given to the otlwr man. I think wmeone outside Parliament and outside the present Governrnent party has had an influen(··c in r0gard to this matter. I haye a resolution lwre that was r.a "'Wd by the 'I'rades and Labour Council, and, in my opinion, they arc the peoplo to whom the board referred as haying no knowledge of the indushy. In ,p1te of that they passed this resolution-

" That this council protests against any action of the Labour Government in the direction of extending the pastoral leases which are to lapse this year, and views with smpicion the negotiations between Premier McCormack and the pastornlists following the former's Yisit. OYC'l~::~cas as another c::nnpromisn wit~ Labour's enemies."

That was c;,rried bv the Trades and Labour Council and forwa):ded to the Go,·ernment before this Bill came before the House. It is pointed out in the report of the Land Settlement Ach·isory Board that 60me aetion

is desirable. My awn personal opinion, after ~eeing the drought-strif'ken areas, is that the holders of these larg<' areas an' entitled to wme eonsideration. I do not contend that th0 whole. of the area should be retained bv them. While I "as in the \Vest I made it my business to ir1vcstigate the position, anrl in not ono inotance did I find any large c0mpany desirous of retaining the whole of it leasehold. The companies were ·Satisfied that it would be quite fair if they could r< lain on<:o-third of the leases, and, in my opinion, that would be for the Lmefit of Queensland. I have explained why the pas­toral inclustrv shon:d be considered in this regard.

0

The report of the Land .Settlement Advisory Board shows that beh1 een 1926 and 1931 over 30,000,000 acres of land will fall in to the Crown, and the whole of it, I undcrst md, is to be cut up. First of all, there if1: very little of it ~urveyecL an~J what is surveyed has been cut up into blocks which it is proposed now to make lar;er; there­fore a rcmrn:v will have to be made. The rr·port states ihat there are 1r.ooo,ooo acres which may be rPJardod as shc"p country. It is quite easy io say thc1·e ue 30.000,000 acres, but, boilccl down, the sheep-carrying country comists of only 10,000,000 acres.

Mr. FARRELL: You propose to give 3.000,000 ,;cres of that back to the companie,.

Mr. KERR: At this stage. when the ir:dnstry is in a proc::trlous position. arc the Government entitled to experiment in this regard? Suppose, for instance, they allow 25.C0 0 acres to c,-e,·y sclectoi·, that would menu 400 blocks to be survev·ed for 400 selectors. and the capital required is stated to be approximately £10,000 for each block. That means £4,000,000 of new money. The hold­lngs ba,~c to be restocked, arld the lessee" should >"eceiYe assistance by extended leases as suggested in the repOrt-not for long periods. but fifteen years fm double the living a rea and ten years fen· more than double a living area. There should be fair compen­sation allowed for tho drought. It may be argued that the~e n1en have had a compen­sating· factor for ,·ears; but it would be next to impossible

0

to settle these areas in the short period proposed by the G'overn­mcnt. These holdings sho-uld be permitted to be restocked by the present holder while a rcsuryey is being made. and while the land is in their hands suitable selectors should be obtained with sufficient capital. We should not tell the present holders that thev mav haye to leave the holdings any day. " I am not in favour of giving concpssiGns 1vhcn other peorlc a re crying out for the land involved; but I nm looking at the industrv from " broad point of view. It is necessary to stabili<'J t],. S~'lte from a financial and economic poir,t of view and also in the i>lterests of the worker. Immediately we touch this industry every worker in the com­munity is. going to suffer. \V 0 shall find t!ta.t there will be a reduction in the wool clip of Queensland in the next three years. I can produce letters from a number of men who sav that there will be a diminution of wool if these proposals are carried into dYcct.

Another question which arise; i' that of ftnancc. It is state·d in the report of the hswciated banks that practical!; the wbolo of the deposits availab!co have been alreadv ad'.anced. \Vhat will be neceosary in the

Mr. [{err·]

1728 Land Acts Anu.ndment Bill. [Ai:3SElVIBLY.] Land A.cts Arnend·nhJJt Lill.

\Hlol industry of Queensland when we get the rain we arc looking for? I an1 glad to say

that rain is gradually rclioYing [12 noon.] the drought-stricken arc"·· but

aheady the banks have advanced to their full capacity. I am glad to sec that; but, if our woolgrowers are to be- financed, it can only be through the wool firmc or f[nancial institutions. They ha YC their owu clients, and they have to as·-ist them first. I \Yant to know whct·o the morwv j, likolv to come from in Queensland or other States to find the cxtre. £4,000,000 which will be require<! to finance new settlers. The money 1nark:0t j~ as tight as it ha8 bcr.n for years, and the fma.ncial < mdition of tlw State doe· not \Yarrant the Govcrnrncnt cxperin1enting or speculating. It i~ nli very well to say that hurH.1rf~d~ of person~ arc crying out for lan-d. but vvho are they? I ~.vas having a. shaYe in a barber's shop in Wi11ton when the b&rber said, "I have been in for these blocks for a long tim<,. but I have had no luck. There are too many in for them." I _,aiel, " Pos­sibly you have had a good deal of experience in the industry?" He replied, '· ~at a bit!" There is one of the applicants. (Government interjections.) I do not deny that there are othere. Perhaps the publicans in these towns in Queensland have a certain amount of money to put into selectiom, but is it better to put such Jncn in or rctnin the nwn we have now? In the long run, putting a new n1an in does not mean that there i:-. going to be one extra man employed . in Queensland. I know that there arc men l1ke the manager of Cork station, iYir. Matthew­son-a very capable man-who woul-d like to be an applicant, but unfortunately he has to be financed by some institution or bank. The trouble is that we may take this land, sun-ey it, and at the last moment put on a man without cxpericnc~-~ or who cannot get finance. and, if that be so, the Government would not be ·doing the right thing.

The SEcnETARY FOR l'1'BL!C' LA:>ns: The Bill provides for that:

Mr. KERR : I hope that wmething will be done to stop that sort of thing. and that the idus of the Gowrnment 1cill be fnlly carried out; but I doubt it very much.

Another big question -we have to take i!1to consideration is the interference of the Government with the industrv. The '·~ccct of success of the great wool ind.ustry of Quecno­land has been the non-interference of the Govern1nent. Private enterprise initiatc.d and built up our greatc··,t industry. It alone ~equi.rcs no assistance in the shape of pools or organisation. It has a world market and its own organisation, and it is the one orga:1i­sation which has been built up ,vitlwut the assistam:c of the Govcrnrncnt. Hcnc I want to pay a tribute to the financial institution' who have stood behind it. I do not see wh_v hon. members oppoo;itc should obj1 ··t , ' strongly to them. 'l'hcy arc recognised by the law of the State and every other country in the \',orld, and by haYing ~o rnany share­holders th"y arc able to raise capital and lend it to Qqecnshnders. If they were dealt with in the v.-av that some hon. mcmbc'rc. opposite woul-d l;ke. this State would be the sufferer. and possibl_v we would sc>c the e11d of this industrv. The financial institutions in this and ether' Sta tcs ha vc stood bPhind this industry, and are largely responsible for ib progress. The financial institutions have advanced the necessary capital and carriecl the heavy O\'erdrafts of the graziers, and,

[Mr. Kerr.

according to the report of the board. no harsh supcrYision is exercised by these Insti­tutions. 'rho board also points out tlun certain undesirable restrictions in lcu·islation and administration in the matter of tl1e infla­tion of rcntals, increase-d taxation, li1nitation of areas, perpetual residence conditions. part­ncrship restrictions, and 1·estrict.ions of :,uh~ hayc militated against the expar, wn of the industry. In 1924 the Government passed an Act to deal with dummying land, but it has since been disclosed that, whereas 2 per cent. of the men on the land were dummie,, 98 per cent. vv-cre genuine settlers doing their very be,t in the interests of the State. What a result of narrovv vision-the penalising Df 98 per cent. of genuine settlers to deal with a n1iscrablc 2 per cent. of offenders~ 'l'he board has pointed out that we must adopt a :·ery -different outlook in dealing with thi> Industry, and, in 1ny opinion, a very diffcrcut outlook is required in dealing with these larg<' holdings. It is all Ycry fine to claim that people _are cr,ving- out for land. It will be Interesting hvch-c n1onths hcncn to witness the effect of this legisbtion. The board point> out that in considering- the extension of tenures for large holdings the matter v, "' approached, not from the viewpoint of th• interests of the companies, but from the ,-icw­point of the intcrc ts of the State. That is exactly the manner in which I am Yicwing this important subject. I do not know any of the shareholders in these companies. Tlw matter of extending their leases 2hould 1w dealt with, having regard ta the public· interests-a viewpoint that the Goyermncut lut\·c utterly failed to grasp. They blindly regard all these con1panies as abscnb'e an(l foreign companic ,_ They say in hard ~··arch, '' \V e will crucify them, and give the land to our own people."' The Land Settlement AdYisory Board, with which I agree. ha.s brought in a valuable report, which show' that its thoughts were centred on the public interests of Queenslaud. and it ma-de those public interests the basis of its recommenda­tions. It is useless for hon. members oppo­site to attempt to sidetrack that fact. They hayc attempted to fasten upon the Opposition the ach-oc 1cy of a general extension of lcut'e::-.. They cannot attach any such policy to thi·; party as a vvhole. (Gov('rl1nH'nt intcrjeC"­tions.)

The DEP'L:TY SPK\KI~R: Order: :Mr. KERR: This p>uty has advocated

ihat the Government should take cognisance of public interests before damaging the pas­toral industry in any respect.

I luwe attempted to obtain information show1n3' exactly how our polic~ of closer settlement has worked out. I find that the nun1ber of grazing tenures increased fr'on1 6.552 in 1910 to 9,692 in 1925. According to the argument of hon. members opposite, the grci!tcr the closer settlement the greater ihe production of wool: but that argument ;, not sustained by actual facts. Althougl1 there arc 3,000 more lessees holding land now than in 1910, vet the fleece has not increased in quantity'. Hon. members oppo­site have argued thot a vigorous policy of closer settlement will increase production. >tnd consequently wealth. and that the State as a whole will benefit thereby. The polie~­of the Government in that resnect has 11ot praYed the success they anticipated.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order : Th" hon. member has exhausted the time allow~d him under the Standing Or<lcrs.

Land Acts Amendment Bill. [14 DECEi>lBEE.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1729

Last night the House believe

had been made during the the good points of the Bill, and

at considerable length that certain ------'-'-- which would result in

to the pastoral industry had ignored by the Opposition,

concentrated on the extension of leases lessees. I wish to contradict that Hon. members have forty

1ninutos to speak on such a. vast and \Ve are not to waste time in saying

and we approve of that, take half time. It

out the of the

You have never done

member the Government side has extension of the pastoral

Mr. FOLEY: That is not correct.

: The hon. member may not so, but the majority of hon.

opposite have been me-rely apolo­the Government because they could

not see their way clear to extend the leases.

The have

FOR PUBLIC \VORKS : We no apology at all.

:;\;fr. KELSO: When the Land Settlement Board was appointed the Premier

a great deal about it. He said was a capable man who had

in the report of the Prickly-pear Commission, with whose report he

was so delighted that he had adopted it in toto w·hom he intended to appoint as chair-

' of the board to investigate the pastoral It is kpown all through the State

amon,. pastoral lessees that, when that report was furnished to the Premier, there

indications by the hon. gentleman that lecrislation he \Vas going to bring the recommendations of the Land

Advisory Board would be and most of the pastoral men

to think they were going to get a spin." I can ~ee it as. plain ":s a pikestaff that the Premier had It m h1s mind to adopt the report and g1 ve a fan measure of justice to the pastoral lessees:

when the Caucus had instructions ham Labour Council not to do

the whip of his masters.

FOR LABOUR Al\D IXDUSTRY : w•rong.

KELSO: I have no hesitation in say­member of the caucus has to

majority decides upon; but I original wish of the Premier was

some consideration should be given to pastoral lessees.

Mr. BRUCE: 'l'he squatters put. the whip on .YOU.

Mr. KELSO: What I have said is well known in the State.

The SECRETARY Vv-ORKS : There not a word of

At 12.20 p.m., The SPEAKER resumed the chair.

Mr. KELSO: The Premier said last night ±hat he had received no request from anybody for an extension of the pastoral leases. I

1927-5 0

cannot swallow that statement. We know that the Land Settlement Advisory Board went through the drought-stricken areas for months and took a couple of t-housand pages of evidence in camera-which evidence is

the possession of the Premier-and gentleman must know perfectly well pastoral lessees as a whole wanted

concessions. Mr. BRUCE: They wanted all they could

get.

KELSO : Yet the Premier told us had received no requests for an

c-"'""',''"u of leases either in whole or in part. brief for the lessees, but I

a measure justice all round. nineteen members of this House

the Central-West. Mr. C. J. RYAN: And travelled the stock

routes.

Mr. KELSO : The hon. member does not know what he is talking about. We went rcund the whole district and covered a large area; and it stated by all the people

there they would like to get l'i'ases of one-half of their areas.

only boars out that the Premier's state-must be taken with a grain of salt he says there was no demand for a

renewal of these pastoral leases. These men gave their evidence, and the Premier has it in his possession.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : Why do you not follow the usual practice and quote the Premier correctly?

Mr. TAYLOR: Satan reproving sin!

Mr. KELSO: In what respect am I mis­quoting the Premier? However, I have given enough time to the Premier, and I want to continue my speech.

The SPEAKER : Order ! Order ! The hon. member is inviting interjections.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : You said the Premier said that he had received no requests for an extension of leases. That is not what the Premier said at all.

Mr. KELSO: I was here last night and I heard the Premier speak, and my recol­lection is-I am pretty clear on it-that he said that he had received no requests for an extension from any particular lessee.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA!<J.DS: He said he had received no requests except from the owners of these pastoral leases ancl the Opposition.

Mr. KELSO: I must say that I disagref' with the Minister. What impressed me last night was ithat the :Premier should say that, when it is' perfectly well known throug-hout the State that these men were expecting an extension of leases. The Premier apparently had led them to believe that a measure of relief would be granted. The argument has been put up here, and by interjection when one hon. member was speaking 'it was gestecl by the Premier, that a contract been entered into with certain men and contract had been carried out, and there wa' no liability on the part of the Government lo do anything further. If the Premier was right in that contention. then it must follow that there is no liability on the part of the Government to help the srriall selectors Pither. A eontract was made with these people. and they g-ot into trouble with the drought.

Mr. Kelso.]

1730 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSE.NIBLY.] Land Acts Amendment IhU.

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLlO LANDS: \Vhat contract?

Mr. KELSO: With regard to the leases.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA:o<DS : The leases have expired.

Mr. KELSO: It is proposed to assist small selectors, and I have nothing to say that-it is only right that the selectors should be assisted.

I object to Government that the Opposition not closer settlement; and tunity, on behalf of Opposition, of denying he at any time during this tho Opposition think that the should have extensions of third of the areas falling in.

He said

[111r. Kelso.

they liked. As nothing to do

they [12.30 p.m.] went on

plied. They were go out to the backblocks into practically the wilderness, with none conveniences of civilisation.

Mr. C .• T. RYAN: You

them. 'J.lhe PREMIEH: }~on are

twGnty-cight years.

Mr. KERH: He did not say that. :;}1r. BuLCOCK: It is in "Hansard.n

for

Land Acts Amendment Bill. [14 DECE}IBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill; 1731

mal(\' ,·ears th('y have deYeloped a strain of wool whic·h is well known on the London market. •Lnd during our tour in the \V est y,:p 1uct 1nany evidences of the trduendous difficulties !hoy had in keopir,g their flocks a.liYo for the purpose of continuing that strain of wool. The PreEliei· hst night admitted that, although small('r holdings could breed a fine quality sheep, la1·ger hold­ings could give a greater volume of a certain kind of merino wool, which suited the Hpinners at home.

\Ve know that there is threatened com­petition from Argentina and South Africa; but we arc hopeful that our peculiar climatic conditions will enable us to maintain our pre-eminent position in the production of the fine merino wool of the world. The peculiar climatic conditions of Queensland a1·e admirably suited to the production of th-:; type of merino wool which is eagerly sought for by the 1·est of the world. Does the Premier believe that the multiplication of srnall .1.roas will, in the aggregate, mean an improvement in the quality of the merino _,-ool?

The PREmER: Do you know that the best sheep in Australia arc bred on such places as Boouookc and \Vanganella' \Vhat arc th<> arc as of those places?

JI.Ir. KEL80: I do not po'o as an expert on the 1''J 1nattors, but during our tour through the drought-stricken areas of Queens­] and I obtained the views of many graziers as to what they considered \vould be for the benefit of their districts and Queensland. Th0 Premier must admit that the pastoral industry, like the sugar industry, j,, a great national industry, and no doubt his objc ·t in introducin~ this Bill vvas his realisation that a decline in this great industry would mean a heavv loss to the State. These f'H all h_ldel~s ii1fonned. us that the :-rnall rnc:1 would not be in a position to bu:;· thP best f'lass of sheep.

The PRE;\!IER: \Vhat is your authority foe that siatemcnt?

::Ylr. KELSO: The small men the:l'sch·os. They pointed out that th'-'Y had not ih' n1oncy tD buy high-cb-,s anin1als.

The PIU.MIER: vVhere do the small holders purchase tlcoi r rams?

:\Jr. KELSO: Perhaps, like the dairy;;H:n. they purchase the best possible animals with tl10 money at their disposal. These small men i.nfor nee! ns that they purchased the Yer.\ best stock they could. The hon. mem­bct· for Ba<·coo has no cioubt given this sub­ject a good deal of attention, and I compli­ment him on his industry and the informa­tion he supplied to this House. He stated that. in the interests of the industrv. it should be the duty of somebody to see' that the graziers wore forced to create rcserycs.

;\1r. BuLCOCK: I said, "induced."

Mr. KELSO: The intention was there that thoro should be some plan evolved by which these men should build up a resene fund for all time. It was a Ycry good sugges­tion, and one which should be acted on by everybody, if possible.

Let me put the position as I saw it during th" tour of the Central-.Wcst. The case I am quoting is that of a small man holding 10,000 acres. Ho originally came out from Scotland, and for a couple of years he had a good " spin." He thought that the industry

\L1S a little goldmine. He told m that he aC'tually thought there was nothing to stop him from making a competence. Ho had 10.000 acres, on which he ran 10,000 sheep. That was extraordinary.

The PRDIIER: He was lookins- for trouble.

Mr. KELSO: I quite agree with the hon. gcnt.loman, and, when the first touch of drought came, he went to the wall.

The PRE1IIER: \Ye are doubling tile area, of th( small man.

::llr. KELSO: Men who engage in the industry usLmlly start in good seasons and trv to make all the money they possibly can. Thev stock up to the full capacity of their hoJ,Iings; everything is rosy until a drought strikes them and then they have to fall back on the ;,oney they have made. Subse­queDtl. they have to approach the pastorai c·ompa"nir·s and banking institutions for assir;t nee. They are carried along by them Lli,til they lose practically all their flock. \Vh:tt happens when the drought break.,·: These men repeat exactly \Vhat they did before. They have a big debt and have W go fol' the •• lick of their lives " in order to pay it oiL They put as many sheep < s they posoiLi:; can on their holdings for tb.t pur­pose. I do not look upon the pastoral

n.nd banks who co1ne to the of these men in thv c:· m<' light

ho1:. rucrnbers opposite. \Ye v iY~for1ned droughts, n1ore or less scv occur

in ~ l1e Longrcach distrjct every and a-half years.

"'\Y c had the n1ost extraordinary frc;tJJ the Iron. member for BurLc. up, and, 1 .. ith all the energy he i~; capable of putting into his speech and all the heat e"gcudcrcd by the w"rrnth of hi:' ubjcct,

to run do\nl the pastorn,l con1panics. :1~,kcd ·where the n1onc:. \Yas cornL1g fron1

to l ,Jild the big v ool ston. ~ \YC h:tYO in Eri"banc. nnJ he ansr. crcd the quc~tiou b.~:

· it fleeced from the peor.:·' he the Co:rnrnoll\YC,llth

take OYC:i' the iinanci11g it:c'ustn:. r~rl1ct·e is no evicl.c:nce -- + o( injasticc by thf···e people. ~·

J i.;; anathema to hon. nu:rnb_rs OlJ1>0-llE'Y8'::.'thcJcss no party in pOIYc:.· i:1 thi~

State ha~ ever borro;-;-ed n1ore capl~a!_ thau the e11t c;o,-nnment. I wonid like to a:3k. cmnn1on fairn,::;.ss. •·-here the n~u~toral industt•.~ or an":.~ other· industrv wCmld be \Yore i( not for ~thr n1onc·. -powcl· in ()ueens-~n~ • .

The PRE:~IIER: You are confusing capital with capit::dists.

l\Ir. KELSO: It is true that these financial con1panics get son1c reward in addition to. the iHterest, but thev hayo been .a di>'tinct asset to Queensland. ~They ha Ye built great '.Yool stores in ol'der to assist this industry; ,,et we hear from hon. members on the other ~ide nothing but deprecatory remarks in eegard to them. I want to imprc's upon hon. members opposite that these companies were pioneers and have performed a public service.

The PRE~!IER: They are still doing it. We nre not legi "lating against the1n.

:\Ir. KELSO: Before the hon. gentleman c,:.rno into the IIouse I was givino son1e instanc<'o of the unfair methods adoptr·,d by hon. members on the other side, and that is one of the unfair methods to which I all LidP.

I shall probably not be in order in d aline, with the eqllalisation of the income tax. but

Mr. Kelso.]

'1732 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amendment Bill.

in passing I want to say that that seemed to be one of the burning questions during our trip to the Central-·Wcst. It was an injustice that the graziers thought should be remedied. No rl"re11surer should expect to get income tax 0xcept on the income that a man earn,. \V e had a particular case put to us showing that one grazier over six years had paid in income tax 50 per cent. of his net income. If the Premier is anxious to help the grazier, he has great scope in that direction.

The SPEAKER : Order ! Ordc>r !

The PREMIER: Do you know that for the last twenty-two years, in season and out of season, this ind!lstrv has been the greatest taxpayer in the Stat'e?

11r. KELSO: I am not denying that. I am pointing out that during good seasons the grazier has no objection to paying income tax; but we have passed through two or three drought years, and it is only equitable that the graziers should pay income tax only on their net income. It is during drought periods

. that they feel the effects of the present system. Relief has been given by the Commonwealth, and there is no rea,on why it shouid not be given by the State. It would haYe been fa1· better to have a combination of the two propo"als-more closer settlement on a pro­portion of these leases that have £alien in, with the pastoral lessees carrying on along­side these small blocks. The hon. member for Gregory gave us a very informative speech, and he had some doubt in his mind as to whether all these blocks would be taken ,up if thrown open for selection. I think the hon. gentleman stated that in his opinion only about 50 per cent. of those blocks would be taken up. The Premier is more enthusi­astic about it. Many hon. members on this side pooh-poohed the idea of the hon. member for Gregory that it is going to Tequire £13,000 to stock a selection.

The PRE:IHER: I think myself the estimate is too high.

Mr. KELSO : If this is going to be a poor man's industry, finance ha" to be obtained. As soon as small men take up these blocks they will have to get money with w hi eh to restock and to fulfil the different requirements, and I doubt whethe,r that will be possible.

Mr. DEACON (Cunninoham): This is one of the most important Bills we have had to deal with this session and for some consider­able time previously. I am not going to give the Government too much credit for bringing in the Bill, because they could have done so long ago. \Ve know that to a large extent the difficulties which the Govemment now desire to remedy have been brought about by their own fault. When they brought in the Land Acts Amendment Bill in 1924 they would not accept the amendments sug­gested by the Opposition. If they had done so, a good deal of the trouble we a·re having now would have been obviated.

I am looking at this Bill from the point of yiew of the interests of the grazing farmer­that is the indiYidual whom I am backing. I am not worrying about the pastoral lessee, who can look after himself. I have not heard of any intimation from the pastoral lessee to the effect that he thought he had any claim a;t all. If he has one, he has certainly not sent it on to me.

[.Mr. Kelso.

The PREMIER: He never sent it to me either.

Mr. DEACON: The man we have to look to is the grazing farme'l·. The view I take is that the land policy of this country should be to settle as many people as possible ou grazing farms.

A GOVERNMENT MEMBER: Hear, hear ! Come over here.

Mr. DEACON : It is not necessary for me to go over there. That has been the policy of this party all along. It 1s the policy we put before the country at the last election.

The PREMIER: Why have you dropped it?

J\Ir. DEACON: I do not know that any of the Opposition pa•rty have dropped it. We ha.ve always stood for closer settlement in the western areas of the State. The gra?.­ing farmer has had a pretty rough time, and has been badly treated by this Government. He has been over-rented and overcharged for his land in comparison with what other people were paying. The Government have taken every penny they could get out of him.

The fl"rcut difficulty with the grazing farmer has been that his area has been "' bit too small and he has not had that stability which is necessary if he is to get finance. Many of the difficulties from whicl~ the grazing farmer is now suffe>:ing-most of them in fact-are due to the actions of the

' Government in the past. \Yhat [2 p.m.] he wants and what this party

desires to secure for hiin is some security of tenure so that he may be in a position to get finance. That 1s the only way in which he can !Set it. He muot .~ave some nerrotJable secur1ty. If the coud1tion' are made too hard-if; for instance, it is imperative for him alone to carry on-he cannot go to anyboc;!y else f'?r finan:e. The imp1·ovemcnts m h1s cond1t10ns . offered by this Bill when you come to b01l them all down. a1:e simply that the Minister may do somethin"' for him. It is all at the Minister's discretiOJ~. Nothing is absolutely promised. One :Minister may choose to give him these things, and another may not. It all depone;!' on the YJ:ir,ister. That 1s the weak pomt m lho Bill. It does not lay down definitel:-­lhe conditions on which the grazing farmer ean get assistance. If I were taking up a grazing farm, I would prefer to knew d£fi­nitely what my conditions were gomg to be. If I were on a grazing farm and thought of comin"' under the Bill, I would like to~ know just "~hat I was entitled to, and not what the Minister might give me if he chose. H<· mav give me all I want but a man does not kn,;w what he may get. 'He wants something definite.

I do not propose to speak at very great length. because there h" Ye been se> many speeches on this Bill.

Mr. COLLI~S: And very little wisdom expressed.

Mr. DEAC0:0T: I am surprised that the hen. member thinks so little of his own effort. (Laughter.) I thoug·ht he spoke very well. I understood the Premier to say that a man going upon a selection without su.~­cient money could make arrangements w1b somebody ~!se-a m~n .in the town or ~he city who m1ght feel mchned to stand behmd a practicai man-to take an interest in it;

Land Acts .1mendment Bill. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1733

but so·nc doubt has been expressed as to whether iohat c-an be done. I have mada inquiries from responsible persons in the Lands Dep:trtment, and thev sav that the pcsition is as the Premier expressed it.

I understand that it will be possible for an individual, whether he holds land or ?therwise, . to be<:ome interested financially 1 n a selectiOn or m more than one selection, and in that way assist the practical man, but there is some doubt on that point and I should be pleased if the Minister {, ould dear the matter up when replying. Prior to the passage of the 1924 Act these partner. 'hips were permitted, and 'that Act was mtroduced for the purpose of preventing the Pxtenswn of fina-ncial aid that led to "dummying," and no doubt the Aet was .<uccpssfu! in stopping that flow of finance It wos pointed out at the time that the legislation "·ould have a rnisclYicvous effect, but the Government persisted with their Bill m the face of such advice. \V c should now be. thankful that we are i-n the position of bemg able to congratulate the Government on seeing the error of their ways and repent. mg·; but I hope that thev will realise their errors a little more speedily in the future, and not allow three rca'l·.s' mischief to be inflicted on the State. "

The Bill provides that apDlicants for land must. be experienced a.nd di;close the extent of their financial backing. That svstem will be preferable to the old- system of allowing

. persons who have no chance whatever of being a success on the lctnd to "o to the ballot. The Land Settlement Advisor·; Board points out that the over-stocking which has occurred, not only on grazing selections but on large holdings where the owners have gambled on the seasons. has IPd to the deterio·ration of the countrv. vVhv should we hand over !ho public esta'te to ar!y person for h1m to rum 1t? We should impose cer­tain condi_tions to prevent the oYcrstocking of land, wh1eh leads to a diminution in the carrying capacity.

Mr. BULCOCK; How cvn that be done?

Mr. DEACO=": A priYat<• individual who leases land in1posos certain condiHons in order to protect his property. If it is neces­sary _to have clo .. c•r supervision to protect the Jmbhc estate, then that supcrYision c-hould be provided. What are the departmental office_r~ for 1 T~e Government impose certain cond1bons dealmg with the destruction of nox.io_us weeds; and why should '.-:e allow any md1v1dual to use tho public estate and then hand it back in a worth le's condition? vYhen placing tenants on the land we shm.ild o-ive them a _n;asonable chance of making d;ore than a hvmg. No man should be sentenced to live a]] his life in the western countrv where the climate is severe. but he should b~ giYen an opportunity of makino- sufficient on which to retire.· A man sl7ould have prospects in front of him to a·.sist him in o-ct­ting security to develop his land. If h~ is given a reasonable living area from \lhich he can 1nake a living and s01nething n1ore, then he will have no difficultv in getting security to improve his holding, and it should be a condition of lease that the land must be handed back in as good condition as the lessee received it.

I desire to- conect the statement made l:Y. the Premier last night that the Oppo­sd·wn were only looking after the interests of the pastDral lessee. The hon. gentle-

man stated that the Opposition -desired to give the lm,sees of Bowcn Downs an Pxtension of lease for 300,000 acres. If wo l'efer to the report of the Land Settlement Advisory Doard, we shall find that under the recommendations of that board the lessees of Bowen Downs would only receive an extended lease for a period in rcsped of 151,000 acres. I would not give the lessees back anv more than thev arc entitled to under the laws of the land. We should net extend the leases of rich countrv close to the railway which is suitable ·for closer settlement ·purposes. 'rho Premier should be \'Pry careful in his figures. as he led this House tD believe that the lessees of Bow en Downs were holding 900,000 acre<.

The main hope of the future for the wpstern C'ountr,,- lies in the grazing farn1Pr. I am not a fl·aid either of the depreciation of the quality of our wool or the decrease in the numbers of our flocks under anv wise closer settlement scheme I am na·t afraid o-f those results, because "" can see small men eettled eYerywherc, together with thn results of their labour. Some of the most successful studs in the world ha"'' been built up by small awn. They can improYe the quality of their. studs in evcrv \\'ay just as well as the bl[?; man. That is why I think that the future of the west"rn lands ljcs vdth the grazing fanner. \Ye arc all aware that the cost of labom­and ever:· other commodity is continually on the incrPase, and we aho know that the more lll<'n one cmplo:vs the less one gets out o-f theill. That is tbc cxpcricllC8 of th9 a YCrago rnan c•ngaged ln primal'.Y pro­duction. It is not because the men neglect to do their vvork, but, as soon as ymJ cn1ploy over a certain r_umber of rncn, tho co;;t. of supcrYision ncc0ssitatC'R an incr~<.1'·C iu the cost of production. A man "With ~ fn,mi]y working his own plR cc does the greater shar<: ,;f the work. It is only by placing men with families on the land that "'' arc going to reduce the cost of wool production.

Ther<• is nothing in this Dill which will st'l·iou-sly interfere with the quality of am· wool or the rcyenue of the Stflto. It ha-< been stated that the collections from taxa­

'tion will decrea.se with tho dis. ppearanco of the large leaseholder. I do net c:cre if that takes ]1 lace. Onr objective should be to "ettle people on the land. If v e suffer in i~1ro1no ta"',: naynu:mts in one direction, then I consid0r the 'loss \Yill be more than made up by the pa; mcnt· of the la re: er Eun;be,· of grazing farn1ers. The breatcr our ·deve1r·1J­ment the oTcatcr the wealth of tho country, and the gcrcatcr the wnlth of the cotwtry th,, greater the pa.yments in taxation.

i\Ir. EDWARDS (Trtnfl11(Jo): After all the 'll<"''chc' that have been dcliYercd on this in1portar.t (lUc~tion. one can only corr10 to thr'- concln!'ion that the Yit:d qursiion ia \Yhcthcr the large area fallirc; i•1 to the Crown cn 11 be succcssfullv -.eUled, and \'.het her n10l10\r cnn he faun Cl to r0stork this countrv. It i; vcrv hard ind0cd for an~·onc to prophesy as to what might happen in eon1~rction with the scttleP..1ent of ~uch a lt•rge area. \Vc h~Ye to take a ccrkin am()nnt of risk. 1 ecause, if the expcrie1 ce of the pest few year, .. is to be continneo­we all hope that it will not-it will be a YNY gra Ye l'trp indeed to put sm<tll sPttlrrs on this <"Ountn and ask tlwm to find the finaHcr to rc~tock the we .tern vrras of Qu<'cnsland under these conditions. ~1..\lthou~h

Jir. Eclwards.]

1134 Land Acts Amandment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Act" Amendrnent BW.

I do not pretend to be a prophet. I reallv think that we have passed over the worst of the drought, and that we arc m for a better time. A great responsibility rests upon the Minister to choose the right class of settler to put on the'e areas. I am one nf t 1wsc who believe that selectors "·ill get through all right if they are given a fair chance, but I re ~lise at the same time that it requires a great deal 1nore capital than wns necessary in the pa~.t to improYe and tock a grazing selection. Therefore. every

leniency should be shown, particularly in reg-ard to rents and also in the matter of alfowing them to get finaEce horn outsick sonrn. . . if at all possible. \Vhile on that point, I w:mt to say that there is some doubt ns to whether the Bill definitely provides that a srlcctor can get finance from an out­side p.r•on who may be Yl'illing to finance hirn. and can givo the 11c~>pssa1"',T sccuritv when he secures that fill,cnce. \Vhen the lHinji'tr'r i.s rc'plying I should like hi1n to < Yplain that provision. I have seen enough of hncl settlement to know that a very large !JGrcen;·a,;o of small selectors, v. hether they be L rrn<lrs or graziers, fail during the earliel' stages of settlen1ent or becausP of drought conditions for ]a,.k posoibly of a few hundred pounds. A few hundred pounds receiYed at the right time might tide a ··elector_ over a ditTicult time of drought, or might help him to buy stock which would cnctblc him to become a succes.sful settler. I Ink it that it is the one clesir~ of the CoYcnulH~nt to sc-0 that this land is success­fnlly "'ttled b.-' ucn who ''·ill be of Q-reat adv~Lntage to the State. That has not ._been so ju th8 past. Unfo;:tunately, far a number of yvars a good d;·al of the settlenv:nt that has takt'n plac~ has been a failure for various rt'ascns. I am prepared to admit that the drought has had a good deal to do with It: but. on the other hand, as has been poin7 _ d out to the Governrncnt from time to t.imc by the Opposition. the settler should not b,, rc-.;tricted as he has b0en in the past. In th~ first place. much of the land has bcf n throY\-n opon for selection in too ~-:-._--;n1l area:-. For years wo have (~ndeayoured to sY:0w '!-ho Government that. it is tF'cessarv to di 'd.; the land into larger areas so tha't ceJtlemc[It may be cucce·:sful by tho settlers be m).; a :>le to :Gnance themselves.

I bclic_ve. that this Bill has many good f<:ntun3 111 It, and that a good many of the difficulties of the pa't will bo avoided if the Minist!C'r will accept certain :1"mendments from this side of the House when the Bill is m Committee. Evervone has now awakened to the fact that' it is better to have ono suec :ssful settler than to have !nlf a. dozen settlers starving on the land. Tb Tefore, a very grave re·,r)onsibility resb3 upon the :Minister and th0 Gm·ernn1cnt in cutting up such a huge area of land during the n:'xt fev· years to see. first of a 'I. th.;t the right class of settler· gets hold of th·' land. I believe that many a man who i.s practically without capital 1vill do bettcT on the land t.han another man who mav have a capital of £5,000 or £10.000. Persons who ili'c nrepa,rcd to settle in the backblocks of Qucemland and battle throu~·h the difficul­ties ''.hich bc-,ct the sctthrs' there will do much b~tter than persons who take ap the lo.nd with the idea of making- a fortune ill a short time. The man v.;ho is prepared to p:o out and make his home on the. hnd will do far bet·ter with a small amount of money than the man who takes up the land fo'r

f Jf,·_ FJclu:ards.

speculative purposes. The vital question is to get the land stocked immediately. Now that rain has fallen over a large area of the State, it would be a great pity to allow this land which is falling in to be left idle for the next few years. Perhaps in some cases the survey may tak<O a considerable time. and it may be a year or two before the land is ready for selection, and that delay would be detrimental to the interests of the State. Immcdiatelv the land is available the Go­vernment should give every encouragement to the settler to get stock a.nd bring the land into use. They will then not only be helping the settlPr but every individual in the State. and will also be assisting to nstore our financial position. If we can settle 100 or 200 men successfullv and enable them to make homes for themselves, we shall be able to give a fair amount of work to many men who are walking the streets of the towns of Queensland to-day.

In such a serious case as this, where the whole of the State is involved, wo should surelv be big enough to drop the party issue and do the best we can in the interests of the country, but the Premier has not given us that lead: he has used every effort to try to place the Opposition in the position of backing up the big pastoralist as a gaiiL t the small settler.

There ;, not a man on this side who \vould not like to see \V estern Queensland settled b'-7 men on livinrr areas, nevertheless vre are

" cntitl~cl to point out to thE> [2.30 p.m.j Government the po.ssibilit_v tfuat

that cannot be done Immediately : and surelv nobodv on the other side won),] suggest cutting up the land immediately .lf wo cannot get successful settlement on It. It would l'e no good for Queensland _or tho Government OJ" for the ecnployocs m the• State. If the right class of settler can be obtained nt the beg-inning, I believe that f'1oee settl "':uent wi11 be a success, bccaus0 I have seen sufficient o~ the men who are [HcpaTed to p:rapple with tho tro~tbles th':t beset the settler to know that, w1th a fait' chance at all, they will pull through.

A good ckal of argument has taken place as to whether the bi!r pastorah~t or th0 small man is the bctte";· from the point of view of maintaining and improving the• quality of our wooL This is a busines., in itself, and it does not matter whether the sheep.brccdcr is in a big way or a small 'YaY so ]ong as his energies are concc~1t:·atc'd on" the improvement of the quality of the weal. Hon. members will notice that fact in the breeding of all stock. Only a few tnen arc ~uccei"sful_ and they arc tho~e 'vho carcfulh centre their Ychole ii;tcrcst on th.·' question. Those who have bc<;n succ.cssful i" the breeding- of stock-sheep m parhcular -are not well-to-do people in all cases: but I think the Government can do a g-reat deal by, encouraging men who arc prc,pm:ed to breed sheep to improve the quality oF oar wool. It is wonderfully impor­tant in the interests of the State. \Vc• arc safe' in saying that no other product appro<tchcs wool as an asset: th:rP­fore the Government would bo well adnsed to giYe :._•ycry possible assistanc~ to ~.h?E"'Jl­breedcr., who in the p<tst have often sacn~cd ,.,t onlv their capibl but a: great portiOn of their iives in this work. It is a most ,-ita] question.

If the Bill, with certain amendments, is pt·operly administPrcd, I think it will go a

Land Acts Amendment Bill. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acts AmendmeP! B:zz. 1735

lonn· wav towards restorino· the confidence whi~h is "eo e,sential to the ~cttlement of our lands. We know that that confidence has been bst s a result of the pin-pricking legis· lation and regulations that the settler-• hn,ve had to put up with I, therefore, hope that the Minister will view the qw·stion from a non-p.•rt:c standpoint and deal with it a­broad!: as possible.

I hope Lhat every consideration and frcedo•JJ "1ll be gi,-en to the present and incommg s •ttlcrs. Until 1917 or 1918 tho cattl<'nH of Queensland did fairly well. \)ut f·ince tbai time rnany of thcn1, although holdin~ fairly large areas, haYe not made ~uffieient to enable thE'm to run a car to town. It beho,-cs th' Ministcc to do every­thing nc•,.ihle in tho interests of the people o" the' land, particularly in the direction of ln3istintt that thP rountrv should bo sub­dividt-d' into living area;:;:. ~ 1 f a n1an is cmn­pelled in g-o0d seasons to stock his area. say. of 5.000 a< res. to its full capacitv, he is in difficulties immediatelv he is overtaken b:.' a dro:1:;ht. Our difficulties in the past ha'-" bet q the inabiiitv to sPcnrc a little 1nore land just when ~ \,Yf' \'1-'Cre rig-ht up ng2in~t drou-_,.ht conditions. I hope the Minister will see that the 'a ttlc holders \\"h03c arc -,s arc rov0rting to the Cro~'"'11 will recei\'C :1 fair deal. Imtf'd of the Bill g-ra,ni; 1,:, . .:,dditional conre<;.'l:>ions to grazing far~ne1 '!,· i he1·e is a tendency te> tighten up the conditions by prov-iding that a selector on exPrcising his ·priorit~v right rnust per­form the rcsid2ntial conditio'ls provided for nev;; settlers. I consider that to be unrcasJn­nble. taki21? into considJratiou the trials of the present selectors OYCr the p c•t ten }·ears. m1d I hope the Minister will not insist on the rn·ovi-·1cl in its prcsC'nt fonT!.

Possibly the Bill will extend to the small "'lectors a little more freedom than in the [Hr.t in i he matter of tran,fers. A "'"' ea. me under Lotice the other da,- of :; returned ::>ldior had eeloctcd ninciv odd acres of

land undcY residentin l conditlo~~s. Ile now n:;;;idcs -,, ~th his ap;cd n1oth2r one and a-half miles frcn this prop0ety. and has been called UlJOll to show cause -why his holdir:g should wt b~ fod·itecl. He had prm·iou'·ly applied for e.n additional area to enable him to hold ;~, livl Jg area, but. his application vras r·•fuscd. This case ''ill illuctr·ate to the :J.1inistu· 1 he hardships in1poscd upon some of th~·.;e : _r;all Fettlct "· \nd I llopo the bon. gentleL:.~n will approYe of a proviJicn 'nnbliug the small settlers eiLcr to select aclditiomLI areas to be added to their holcl­ing<.::, or u1lowing thern to take up another propert.r m some other localit:·. Ii that conce:~::.ion vvero rnadc, it 1vould pl2.:e hi1n in a simil· r positwn as the> grazier who bdorc the pas age of this Bill was in JlO"O'sion of less th..t.n <.t living are_t; otherwise this n1an \rill be f01·ccd to l''Jturn to the bnd and r:- ~idc U 1V)l1 it or forfeit it. If h2 cannot make a living from the present area, then it is vf no use lo him or lo the State.

I hope• that the :Ylinistcr will comicler th• "' matters Ycr,- carefullv ,y)wn the Bill i~ in Comn1ittce. "I once a~ga1n plead with hin1 to see that living areas are given to ~eleclc.rs in tho great grazing areas that are 1101v f, 11ing in to the Crown.

QLH,t.io<>--Tlwt the Bill be L!OW read a spc·orH~ ti-rne-put and p ,~qed.

CmniiTTEE.

(Jir. Pollock, Gregory, in lice cl-·zir.)

Clause 1-" Short title and corudruction" -agrc:..d to.

Cl.au~e 2~" Dronghr Tr;,lief; JI£nhdc1· to cansldu· rccommendatton -

:\Ir. CORSER (Bzcrnett) : I beg to movo the followinc; amendment:-

" On lint' 2, page 3, omit the words­' in his absolute discretion.' "

The amendment provides an oppor_tuni!:v which the Minister should value, foL· 1t w!ll enable him to extend to those tenants who do not now come under the provisions of this Bill the relief which it was intended by the board should be giYen them. The Bill 11rovidcs a nwa~;;;ure of relief to grazing ~Pl< ·:tor~ detrimentally affected by the clrouo;:H. The amendment makes it possible for 'tl10se who are diss"tisfied with the result of the decision of the Minister to sppcal to the Land App~al Court. Under lho Bill yerv considerable powers are dele­gated to th ·Minister. The present Minister cannot hopP alway:; to occupy h1s present position. \Yo should always place ~he right of appeal within the reach of all d1ss~hsfied gettle~'R. 0:::p~cially 99 Parliament Intt~nds to bcs:tov1? son1e privilege on those m1gagcd in the industry afl'c-,·tcd bv the drought. No Minister. or 'official of • tho Crown could poosibly make him,df con_versant with the requirements of settlers m order to see exadlv how certain conditions mitigate againSt th,'jr success.

The SErRcTARY FOR PUBLIC L\);DS: The board is there to aclYise.

Mr. CORSER: As the clause stands at prrs0nt, the I\Iini:-~er need not b1ke any notiC''! o[ thr' board. The board is there to ad,-ise the l'.Tinistcr. Paragraph (c) reads-

" The bond shall at the conc~usion of tlw i;.-~quirv forward to the l\{inistC'r a rccorrunencb_ tion in re~pect of the various nwttcrs \Yhirh th~ :\1inistcr is n:>qnircd in hi decision to determin-:~ as set forth in p ·ragnph (c)."

:\ow par .graph (1') provides the area of land that ~hall be guwted to the selector as a new fl'razin:~; s~lectlon. The whole sub~Jance of the mport of the Land Settlement Advisor;v Board goes to show the troubles of settlers t ht·ouQ.'h not ha Ying sufficient areas. \Ye kno\v the .i\Iinisccr conld not possibly decide such important questions. and we think i.h>J Land Court might be appealed to, whei"e the settlers ~~an hayo tlwir ca"cs put for the1n. ,vb ·re the Cro\Yll m]g ht argue its case, and .wh0r~ we are likclv to sorure a far more IntC'lbgent and cPrt ~ inlv a far more benefic-ial findin: than if it {s left to the discrdion of the :\1inistcr. In this Bill the disc ·etionary powers of the ]\.'[inister arc very considerable. .md. ':hilc the hon. gentleman may attemp1'· to do his dut~'. he cannot possibly carr:v out· in an intclli!:"f'nt n1anncr the extraord1nar:v pO\Yers that 'arP vested in him 1vhon he is dealing with millions of acres of land.

ThP 8-ECRETAB.Y FOR I't:BLIC LAXDS : lie IS doing all that nmY.

~'Ir. CORSER: Then we should change ilH• position. The report show-~ the unhappy position i1:to which thn selector~ havo got. \VC' han• got down to the idea that \YC han'

) g,,t as 1nany settlers as possible on the

1v11', Cors"r.]

1736 Land Acts Anwndmmt Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amendment Bill.

land, whereas we should realise that a maxi­mum number of prosperous settlers is what we want. The Mini, tr'r mav not satisfy the illclivid.ual settler, not only "in regard to the area but also in regard to the term of the !cltse. In my own district grazing homesteads of 1,400 acres 'of cattle country ha.-c been opened L\ndcr present conditions. with pH­'onal residence throughout the "'hole period of the lease. That country is capable of carrying one beast to 10 acres. Fancy a selector with 140 head of cattle being expected to make a living· out of it l Surely we are not going to embody in this Bill a proYision which makes that pos.Jiblc; ;mu my amolld­Inent 1ncrch~ asks for a busincs:::like altera­tion, based· on something fair, after a full invcstig :ttion. The Minister v:ill agree that the clau>D irnpO'·CS a eolossal duty on him­ono too great for any indiYidual tn CUlT~:. lf tho Minister would say that, although plac~-d in thi.:; position. ht' js ll(Jt going to function, and will take the ach-ice of the Lvnd Arhninlst.ratlon Board. then it \votdrl bo better to constitute a board \Yith tlnt full authority and responsibiiity. But we haYo to take it as wo find it, and, according to the Bill, the Mini;ter is to be all-powerful. The board rnay make certain inqnirir·:;, but the Thiinister "shall ·drC'idP," nnd 1 arn tnh:illg it that the Minister will decide.

I-Io has pO\YPr abo with regard to the rent to be charged for tlw first pcr;oJ of sewn ,-cars. The rent to be charged is also a .-ery big item, and we know that in the Land Settlement Advisorv Board's recom­mendn.tions it is dt•arlv staicd that the oflicc•rs cf tho c1eparhnont-esupecial1y land rangcrs­haYo inflicted very great injw~tict~ on ~;::_·ttlcrs in the past. I hanl been Yictimiccd mys:lf by an incn :'.srd rPntal in a p0riod of droug·ht. ""d I ha·d to fight them at the Land Anpeal Court, and, but for th;±t Land App0Hl Court presided over b~: a judge. I shoul(l havf' hocn ~uffcrin,g frou1 that cli~ 'lbi]it:y to .. da~7 • It js a fair thing to gi\~e to l"ht .:;;cttlcr the OllP(Jl'­

tunity to go to the court jf he is not satisfied '.';ith tll8 dccisicn of the J.'tin~st 11'<' i~ ihc holder of the land, and he enters the• L1~t period c£ his 1E'a!3c. If it is a pJ.storal he enter:.; into the la:::t tc11-ye--:r period, lf it is a gra~:ing fan11 nr a gra:~.!ng hom Head, he enters into the la_~.t '3C:vcn-yc::tr pe:riod of his lease. That man wants to b. mY v hat his future i·_; to be. Fortunatc1v, the Hill provide, that he shall be nhlc to kno".· ·,, hnt is intended to bP don{). 'rh: sc1 dion ruay b'- :in one bk ·k or in 1;10e0 thr;r:o ono. If on1y one2 h0 pnjo~~-s a priorlt:7 ovct that portion under section 72 cf the ~\( t. tiHYL 1g

'ecured that, he wants to kno'V what the rent and dui.~ation of the Iensc aro r:oing to be. rrhe pr1vilegef> given hirn un~~cr ~('C'tion 72 P1~7 be denied him owitH; lo the sf ringent conditions imnmnd by the Minister. In that case he should have the ri<:(ht to appeal to the Land Appc ,tl Col!rL A,-ain, ill the public interests, it may be nece'\3ary to :in,'- rt spef'inl conditions in the new lease. ?>1an" srecial conditions arc provided for under the Bill­special oondii·ions for the dcvl'lopmont of country, for the breeding of stud stock. and for many other rcas(lns. I sinceJ·cly hap<' the :\finister '.Yi!l r,ccept the amendment. Sub­clause (1) reach-

" Any lessee of a grfl.zing s, loclion detrimentally affected by the clronght con­ditions whose lease shall expire within ten vears fro1n the comrncnccrncr .. t of this ... :\..et u may apply, by notice ln wrjtln:) under his hand or under the hcnd of his

[}fr. Corser.

agent, in the p1·escribcd fonn or to the like effect, to the :\Iinister that he desires his lease to bo considered bv the J\1inistcr under this Act." "

The Land Administration Buard muy d'cide along the lines desired by th" sdtlor. The settler may agree with the fincling6 of the board, but the ~11nister 1nay say, "'No, we arc not going to do it. vYe v. ant more revenue.''

The SECRETARY FOR Pt'BLlC' LAKDS: Ho may be diosatisfied with the board' J decision.

:VIr. CORSITR: If he is dicsatisfwd wit;! the board'E decision and the board is v.~rong. that is a reason why he should be able to ?:O to the Land Appeal Court. The Minister must sec the justice of tho amendment.

The SECRE'rARY FOR PvBLIC LANDG: You;­arguinent is again:3t the board's recoLHncu­dations.

::VIr. CORSER: J'i"o. I am ar6·uing th t just'ce should be done in the interests of both sections. I sincerely hope the Liinister will nt t tr1,at this as a party rnatt,_T, as it is (roina to mean a big thing for our future ~uttl~rnent. The amendment will provide f01· full investigation being 1nadc and the: sL'itlcr '''ill (rct fair treatment. The l\11nistcr :~u.rcly does

0not n1can to say thP-t his dcci:-;ion is to

be final with rea:ard to this whole' a' ., of 30.000.000 acres!~ I hope the ::\lini,t ,. will accept the arncndrncnt, and that h0 will be reu~onabto '\Yith regard to other Dil1\'ndrncnts to bo moved later.

The SECRETAHY FOE (I-lon. '1'. Duns tan, (}ytn pie): pro-Pose to accept thP a.~ncndrLPnt,. It opposition to the rcconnnendatlcll:.,. ?f T_.~and Settlmncnt ..Ach·isory Board: Wit!d1 th Opposition are·ue shoulrl be >lccep~ \1- ;" full. It js an atten1pt to re\·crt to a 'I o 1 .-.;-~tern \Yhich the predcccssor8 of this GoYCl'H.!:llCll~r l'cprc~cntiPY. the san2c part:v as the Opprsi­tion, found to be unsatisfactory.

A good de a~ . has lll't:n sai~l. pr~r·u~cuiar_ly by th·· Oppos1bon. a to m1sdocos_ of Lto }Y'-St; '/Ct in ihis n.n.d ::.in1ilnr _, ffit _;dn~CJ~t·• tht_y p~··JI10· -~ to coJ~t.inue th~n1. ..:llt.houz_-;ll the• l\Iin: ,tcr, ~ s the 1-c ~;on 1b~0 1n

this PnrJ~ament, rnay c~-,t

l3 p.m.J upo~1 hi111 the rc-cElrrying thn ~Jgh

:'Uch far-r-~nrh1ng ff(' ts ns are pr<'P"'·~d to '"'Y that he shull an;' disc-retion 1vhcn the Bill goes hiBV dPlJ,ll'tlnr ·!t, nr cxcrci-, 2 in carryiPg out thr >,ri,-hcs of

:'\:owhore did the Land Sctth•rrwnr _\chisory J-)oard 1 ec:oJ:nnlCIHl un-; altcratiO!l i th.: po\vcr of the :3.'~1-:.lisk·l' ·.-,s to the rr•n; i-o be­fixed clurir.-~ the fhct pcl'iod of ;; n:' !ea ,e. The :L8_nd · .._t\dlnini&trat.ion Board i:; to be appointed to help the ~1inistor to c,:n-y out the inYcf'tigations which are ne. ~l':'l to •J,-i\-c effect to the p ovisions of tl:_:_: l ,_\V in which no altera.tioD has been rccon1mC11dcd. and fot that r0ason it is only logical and connnon sc~·1se for 1110 to rcfu;:;c to the an;cndrnent. As a n1attcr of fact. vvonld not, ha,-e o.nv good effect. It c:tnnot he coHtcnded th~t the Govc.rnnwnt .do r::ot des ire to give any of th::- cone<. ssions o1.1t in this Bill. Thcv do dcf'irc to thcn1 \\'hcrever possible_ nnd I think it. can be tnk:'n that the :'11il1istnl'. whocycr lw mrrv be, haYing appointPd thi' board to hdp him, v:i1I f'ee that in pra.ct[,:nlly e\~er.v !nstancc

here no quPf'tion of !Jolicy i;:; lr:;·oh "Ll ils l'C'C'On1n1endation will h~ npprovcd.

Land Acts Amendment Bill. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Hill. 1737

:lir. :IIOORE (chlbiiJny): I regret that the :'vlini~tcr has not seen fit to acccvt the amendment, Yvhich to my mind is 0110 of the n,o,,t important we could mak,, to the Bill. The :'.1inistcr seems to think he should be omnipotent and should decide all these questions. \Vhat is the good of baYing a Land Court or a Land Appeal Court if we are not to wake use of them? \Vhv should t!w Minister take uuon himself the resnonsi­bility of deciding ·the basic principies of land settlement in the grazing areas of the State? ThP idea of the autocracv which the :IIinistcr wish<'S to ornlJOdY in "the Bill is ~tbsolutcly wrong. It is n'ot C•· en rig-ht or fair to himself. The mistake he make' may not hurt him, but it may ruin the settler. I do not want to reflect on the pre,ent :IIinister pcrsonal]:v, but he has no personal knowled;;e of land S·cttlemcnt, and has to rei,· on his officers; and we know that, as a result o[ that procedure in the past. our present system of land settlen1e>nt is wrong. The Yerv introduction of this Bill proves it. In the past th0 l\Ii nicter has had a lot o: these powers to which we object. and they haYP been used unwisely, with effects detri­n:cnta! to the prosperi(: of the settlor and nf Queensland. \Ve want to giYe tlw settler ;m opportunit:· of appeal from the autorratic deei~ions of the ::\fini~tcr. The ,.,,hole idea of demo-crat](• governmf'nt if' net to plnco <: !1 authority in the hands of ol10 man.

The l\1 inister n1a v r,,.fer rnatt0rs to the Land Ad1Y1lnistration Board. (1nd he rnay, in his absolute discretion, adopt the recom­mendatwns of the boetrd or othcrwis<'. This provision plac0s the MinistPr in a n10st ridirulons position. Thf' individual lw to f!·o cap in hand to hi1n and ask for jtFtic:~.

ThP SECC'ETARY J:C)R AGRICrLTPI:.E: You object to the Minister haying the aathoritv. ~.-0t you are prepared to hrLHl o, er thGt power to a public scn·ant.

:'vir. MOORE: I do not prnpo<e to gn·c that. pown to a public servad. but to the Land Ap;w1l Conrt-··a tribunal 0slrrblisllC'd fo1~ the purpo~c. 'r}Je Prc1Y1ier sa.id that no one has asked him fm· concessione. \Vhy •l,onlcl an:;on'' go to the Premier of thi's State cap in hand asking for conr('f··~ions?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICT'L'fTlRC: You Jlroposc to ~ivo thc"e fnnctions to a h·jbunal ontsidc of Parlinmcnt?

. ~.Ir. 1\IOORE: . Th,o Land Appeal CoUl't 1; >eh·eady cst:tbh•hed, and is thcrcc for a specific purpose. If an in,]iYiclual is dis­satisfied with a decision, lw ran place his f~Yir!e_nce bPforc dutt trjbunal and e~cLU'O its {lC'<":lF10D.

The SECR?'I'".\RY FOR PuBLH~ I_A:\DS: The1·e is no appeal from the dl'cision \lf the ::\1iflister a to th rent for the first period.

:\h. :\JOORB: Tlw Minister need not put fonv.1rd one little thing like that. The Bill

furthet than that. It places the l\Iinister an oxtraordina.ry positiDn. An jndiYidual

\'rho now wishes io secure justice has to go :o the Mini·ter and a'k for what the :\linh:ter con~iders to be eon.ccssions.

Th(; SECRETARY FOR AGRICl'LTURE: You propo " to giYe the Land Court admini-.tra­t iYc fnnctions.

:'vir. MOORE: The Minister has the right to say what area shall be provided and what rent shall be paid; and why should i here not be the right of appeal? A court is

appointed for that purpose. If there is that right of appeal, then the intending settler wiH have a feeling of security and <-mfidcncc; but, if he feels that he must subscribe to the opininns of the Minister, the position is a very difficult one.

The SECR:TARY FOR AGRICULTcRE: Then ycu are opposed to responsible government.

Mr. MOORE: Responsible Goverr.ment has already provided courts for this purpo,e.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTUilE: The courts do not usurp the functions of gO\·ern­ment.

Yir. MOORE: Gnfortun<tteh·. the Board of Trade does. Hon. members opposite bcliPYC :in appeal> in all matters. If a man is disuis.oc.i c·r t ransferrcd in the R9.ilwa y Department or in the public ecrvice, he ha:s a trib.mal to which h') can appenl.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICl:LTURE: There is no appeal from the Governor in CounciL

::'llr. l\100RE: That is a different thing nltogcthe!'. l\"'"o ono irr1<1gines for a tncrrnent that tho. i\1iHister is going to invcsfgat0 a 11 these mdtcrs per·~o1mllv. He could not do it. ~

The S£CHETARY FOR P-cBr:rc L_\~JJf:.: The T/•nd Court deals vvith contracts. bf~t- ~·c n the GoYC'rHnlt>nt and the ten. ant; bnt this pro­\·i::lon dt' ls '"-ith COlJCC'SSlOHS.

:rr. l\l<V)I:1::: The· Rill g()L:. a good deal fu::Jhcr than th:1t. Thr·sn 1nattors \Vi1l b-_, handed to the officials of the department 'for inyc~ti;;ation, and ·the po;-;ition is \vrong if tho Minister is enabled to wield this C'norn1ons power and will be' ~ ble t0 place the sl'lcdor in th<' po ition of subjugating his 0\Yll opinicn in order to plantc the ::\iinist0r to get "hut he ennsiders to be justice. \Yh~- should hA noi- haYc th8 rif!ht to aprleal ro a trlbtEJrd cc.;tab1i;;;;l-::f J f:Jr the purpoi3(':

~Cl1~~ Sr~cpr.;'LUtY •·uu flrBLic L~\::-.;-D3: Not (':'=hl1Jli.·dlc_tl for that rurposo at all.

:'vlr. MOORE: It is o,tnl.Jlishod fo:· :1 imilnr purpose. Why should ho not hav a !c ·l~ng rhat he C<tn sectue justico wlthout having to sink his own individual opinions bv :'n, inJ,; ~Olllf'ihir:g that will placate i l\Linislcr? 1; nclc'r the present prm·ision gdtler is nsk ·d to n1acD hjs casp before nn intcr0sted pruty. \\t~ kno\V ih:tt the cbjt:ct of all Governn1eut departments is practieally to ~E ._;urt> nr; rnn_·h rC'Y.o:•nuc for the GDYerninent as they possibly r ,l n.

The SECRET.\RY FOR l'1IBLIC L.\XDS: This Bili is a reply to that.

:\h. ::\iOORE: The Bill is unsatisfactory as a reply. Officials look at things from the Cro'.m point of view, and endeavour to get the best out of the settler fm the benefit of tho ·Cro1;vn. r.rhcy are interested parties, and the s·ttler hes to go to an interested party to see that ho g·ets justice. I '"'mt to permit him to ; o to a disiuterested court set up for similar purpo'c, to this, so that he can put his case before it, should he want to appeal fro"' the decision of the Minister. The :\1inistcr says in this Bill that thPre "hall be no appeal ~fL'Oln his decision. That is an arbitrary position. The hon. gentleman can­not personally im·cstigate all the c 35"'' that come before him: yet the settler is placed in the position of sccuTing no CcJncession or what he considers to be justice. The Land .-\p~eal Court may agree with the :Ylinister

Mr. Moore.]

1738 Land Acts Amewlment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amendme1;t B·ill.

and turn the appellant down: but he should have the opportunity of making that appeal. Later on, in ca:'~es '"here a 1nan wants to enter a ballot and is turned down, the Bill provides that he should haYe the ·right to app0al to the Land Appeal Court. That only shows that the Minister is giving that man who may feel agg·rieved the opportunity that everv man should haYc. lie shonld not be under the dictation <tnd thumb of any Minister.

Tho SECRETARY' FOR PUBLIC LAKDB: Don't you recognise that the board will boar the applicant?

Mr. MOORE : There is nothing in the Bill to say so, and there may be no power for the board to hear an applicant. In addition, this board is only a tempnrary board, and the Minister " may" rder the question to the board. He possesses absolute discretion in that respect, and then his decision is final. The Minister is placed in the position of refusing what he likes, or of giYing ·what he likes, and the man has no chance of placing his opinion before him. IndiYiduals have prejudices.

The SECRET.IRY FOR AGRICULTURE: ='Jo indi­vidual chaq;ed with the responsibility of administering the law is prejudiced.

Mr. J\100RE: A man who has a disagree­ment with the Lands Department, as any numbeT of them haYe, a.nd who makes himself a bit of a nuisance, becomes prejudiced indi­vidually in the eyes of the dc,mrtrnent. He therefore is prejudic0d by p:oing bP.fore the Minister. Neither the Mini,.t,or nor the heads of departme'lts aro supcrn1cn.

The SECRETAllY FOR AGlliC'CLTUllR: :'\:Ion charged with responsibility ri.;c to the occ;,­sion.

Mr. J\fOORE: \Ye know that on many occasions they have not risen to the occasion, and the vorv fact that here we have a Bill amendinp: co'i·tain Acts that have been pa'··ed since 1915 shows that the position is and has been unsatisfactory. The dcci,ions of Min­isters with respect to manv of those unsatis­factory f0atures have tal{en effect, and in many cases have been so disastrous that the Government have decided to go back on the policy they adopted in 1918 and 2924. That is because they recognise th 1.t. the recom­mendations of the lHinist,cr on that occasion wore ''-rong. ThPv placed particular pro­Yisions in the L:9..nd .Act~ A1nendrnr~nt Art of 1924, and the JVIinistcr definh, l7 shtr'd what he reql'i·recl them for. We poin.tcd ont at the ti1ne thRt these provisions would proYc di:,ls­trous, bnt onr warning was unheeded.

The CHAIRMAX: Order! The hon. mem­ber must confine his remarlcs to the amend­ment..

Mr. iY100RE: I am only pointing out that the same power vas giYcn to the Minist01· on thosG occasions. and that the Ministerial powPr granted there has broken down. The individual should not be comp01lcd to con­tinue in that way. but should ha\'C the fnllcst opportunity of approaching the Lfmd Appeal Court to obtn.in justice.

Mr. KERR (Enocmrra): I mppm·t th, ~tmondmPnt. There should he some method of adjudication other than b:v the Minister. This clause sets out that the Land Adminis­tration Board will make inquiries in respect to certain applications. Subsequent clauses

[Mr. Moore. "'

lav it down that the board may recommend to' the Minister and that the Minister may refuse to accept the recommendation, or may ·refer it back to the board; but in the final analysis the decision of the Minister is fmal. That is wrong. Any person who feels aggrieved at his assessment of rent should haYe the right of appeal to a tribunal other than the Minister, who in the long run means the officers of the department.

Th,, SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC LAXDS: The Lane! Settlement Advisory Board i., definitely against your idea.

Mr. KERR: It would be much bcttct· to leave the final decision with the Land "~ dministration Board. All this clause pro­vides is that the Land Administration Board rnav investigate and in turn submit its proposals to the Minister. and the Minister in turn mav refer them back to the board. ot· m a v gi~-c a final decision £mm which there is no appeal. Evet·y court of law ho · an Appeal Court.

Tlw SECRJ:TARY FOR P1:BLIC L.lc-:DS : :1\ ot in reg2 rd to conc.cssions.

:\Tr. KERR: \Yhen this Bill become, la' it is Ilo longer a concess-ion. Even if it is a concPssion, it is something that is .granied by Parliament, and ,-hv should the ?v1ini,;ter have absolut<' authori'ty to interpret it., Sureh the settler should have an oppor­tunit;- of appealing against the Minister's decision? If it were mandatorv on the · Minister to accept the advice of the board. it \vould be an entirely different position, but it is not mandatorv. The board mav rt•com­rnend to the :Minister, and the Min.ister has abwlute discretion whether to accept the l1oarcF~ advice or not. and. if the ~.1inistcL· turns dol-vn the ach-icc of the board. '\vhero does he sL nd? Log-ically, it would be impossible for the Minister. as an incliYidual. to turn do"'n the nd,-ice given by the board. but the law makes it possible for the Minis· ter to do so; and, if he does so. what will be the a ttitud0 of the settler who rna v be c;i--ati,;f\ed wil·h the decision? He sl!ould haYr' ~-ornt~ appeal. Ever\ employee in the puHic ser::ico has an a.ppr:al.

The PEE::\IIER : An appeal on a cone~~: ion?

1\Tr. KEHR: There i' no concession abo;Jt this. The clause roads-

" (r) The :!\:inistcr shall in his clccisi·)ll dctcrmine-

(i.) The area of land ... . (ii.) Thn term of lease ... .

(iii.) 'l'hc rent to Le charged (i1·.) Any specirrl conditiom deemed

necessary .... "

VYhere is the conec-,-,ion? It is not a question or concc"ions. It is a question of the p_>ttle­ment of the land. lt is the onlv c1se that I kno1Y of \vh~ re justice is not ~being- mctE:d ont. There is bound to b0 dissati,fa· t~orL and thr GoY0rnn1ent shonld endcaYOUl:; i::; ~C'C'Jre sutisf-ieLl settlers. If ther kno\V there i~ n tribunal where tho,~ can take their cla1Ins j£ an injustice ha~ bcCn done to thf'll1, they will be more s1ttislled. I cannot understand ,, hy 1-hc settler is not gjvcn an opportunit;.­t:J ref.::-r any rr;:att-crs to a board.

:\fr. HARTLEY (Fitzroy): I c~mwt uodtr­sLmd the arguments of hon. membcre oppo­s!tc in &upporting this amendrnent. Jt 'in'J'ly means that they are prepared to rdPgatc and delegate to officers of the

Land Aets Amendment Bill. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1739

{:;o\·(!l·n:nJent all their powrrs as representa­t.i' cs of tiw people.

Mr. K£RR: It does J:ot mean anything of the kind.

:\Ir. HARTLEY: That is what is meant if this anH~ndn1ent is carriPd, and I for one ,mnld not subseribe to such a principle. In "ll matters to be decided bv the Government, in tlw It.· t: anah·sis there must be some t'·,:ecutivn head~sOrneonc to stand as umpire --particularly in such delicate questions as will come before the Land Administration Board for the read justmcnt of the tenure of these pastoral lands. I am not concerned otw iota with the report of the Land Settle­ment Advi·orv Board. I have not read the report, hcnuse I would not be bothered with it. The recommendations of the board are founded on secret evidence to which we have not had access. aud to me at least tltat renders t.he report worthless. If I ha,:e not sufficient confidl•nce in my judg­!nent with regard to the requirements of this State to be able to decide for mvself '·ithont being- led by the opinions of members nf thr• bo1rd-manv of them Government official·o-then I ha,:(' no right to be here. Jf the unwndment was carried, it would Illf"'"ll that. there might be an appeal from ·t' r decision of the Minister to the Land Adrninistration Board, ,s-hich is to be tq)poinh- -1 fron1 offic~als in his own depart­ment: and •·:e would have the ridiculous pm,itioll of two or three of the officers dictating to the Minister what action should 1 (' takC'n on ccrt:,.in qup·.tions.

Tl•e SECRETARY FOR AGR!CCLTFRE: And d0aling- ,,·irh concessions.

71'lr. HARTLEY: Dealing with a con­cpssion which affects the policy of this Governmc:>t. That would be puttincr depart­n~cntal offirers in a position not onlY-:> supreme i0 the :'VIinister hut supremo to Parliament. At the prl'sent time Parliament can deal with any act of administration detrimental to the interest.s r.f the State or the interest··· of tlwse applicant'. In the last analysis auy applicant a~·,-rieved with the fmal decision of thP 3Iinist •r could have his objr• tions ventilated h•re if inj'.lstice had be~n done, and the matter could be straig-htened out. I have !tOt read a iinc of the report, which was based on suppressed evidence. It is ridiculous for Opposition members to say that they are prepared to allow officials of the Land Board to dictat~, the whole of thP land policy of t'1e State, Lut ihat is what the arguments of th" Oppo·iticn amomct to.

0PPOSITI0); :\IE;\IBERS : N 0.

Mr. KELSO (JII,anrlah): The hon. me•11ber fo•· Fitzroy cannot have read some of the an1entln1cnL v hich arP to follow later on. This is '" machinery dause which leads up ·to another clause later on. where the upplicant bas the ri'!,ltt to .tppoal from the d0cision of the Minister to the Land Appeal ·court. '!.'he hon. member for Fitzroy said that he js :Jot going· to give the po,ver which ·the M in istcr should possess to a board com­posed of public scn·ants. as he caliecl them. vVc arc not suggesting that. 'I'hc Land Appeal Court has boon iu operation for a considerLb~e tin1e.

The SECRETARY FOR \GRTCULT"GRE: Do you think a judicial court is the proper tribunal to giYe concessionE:?

Mr. KE.LSO : After thn cone "ion is given 'lnd becomes law. settlers, if they are

ndverselv ,_ffected bv the interpretation of that la>'V, have the' right to appeal to a judicial body. A judge in deciding a matter hears the counsel on both sides, and then comes to a decision. Surely hon. members opposite are not going to argue that, if a 1nan thinks the judge's decision is wrong, it should stop thert' ! The whole system of British justice lies in an appeal, first of all. to the Full Court, then to the Hig·h Court of Austr:dia, and, under certain circun1-stances to the House of Lords. The Govern­lnent ~re . prepared to give a 1nan certain rights under this Bill, and he ought to ha vc the right of appeal from the decision of thP Mini,tcr. The Ministe1· cannot possiblv undertake all this work. A Land Administra­tion Board is to be appointed under the Bill

for one vear. Thev will hardl,­[3.30 p.m.] be appointed before they may h.c

out of office. The Go,-ernment may appoint them for a year at a. time and keep them on tenterhooks, not knowmg where they arc.

The CHATRMA="l: The hon. member is not discmsing the amendment.

Mr. KELSO: l:nder the Bill the :VIinistcr can decido on the evidence placed before him bv tho Land Administration Board. to thP dlsadvantago of the applicant. I am not suggesting bias, but surely the J\iinistcr i:-; fair-minded enough to realise that he ma:-· me.ke a mistake, and that it is only right that an applicant who thinks he is ag·grievod should haYo tlw opportunity of going to a tribunal v;hich has been in operation for ;:ears and is, at an.\r rate, supr·osed to havP the necc3sary qualiflcatio11S for determining· his appeal. To listen to hon. members opposite one would think that the members of the Land Appeal Court are not competent. ·why. the very Bill itself proYi<;!es !hat th<' ::Vlinister >nR v refer certain thmgs to tlw Land Court' if the Land Administration Board is r'ot in operation. \Vhat possible objection can the hon. gentleman have to giying an appeal to a tribunal compost'd. of three individuals of experience. from wh1ch the applicant is likely to get a more impartial and satisfactory judgment than ewn if he went to the Land Court? I think it is yery sensible.

Mr. I-hRTLEY: \bsolutely stupid.

1\Ir. KELSO: A few minutes ago th<> hon. member for Fitzrov did not understand the clause because he o>YaS confusing it with th<? propo~al to come later on that the I.anrl Court should haw' the power of the Land Administration Board. The hon. member eaid tha" he had not re."J.d the report of th,, Land Settlement Advisory Board.

Mr. HARTLEY: I would not read it. I ha vi! n1ore confidence in 1ny own judgment.

1\lr. KELSO: Here is an hon. member of this Committee telling us that he would not read the report of the Land Settlement Ad,-isory Board !

Tho CHAIRMA.N : Order ! I suggest that the hon. member str2y back to the amend­ncent.

Mr. KELSO: I think that the more thr: 'lVIinister considers this amendment the more justice he will see in it. \Ve do not w;tnt injustice to creep in because a man has t:J go to t.ho Minister and curry fa;-~ur with him in order to g·et a certam dectswn, but that is possible under the Bill.

Jlir, Kelso.]

1740 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amendment Bill.

Mr. SWA YNE (J1irani): There is no p:ainsaying the fact that this clause as it stands gives the Minister despotic power, the exercise of which might even mean ruin­ing a whole life's wol'lc People may take up a selection and afterwat·ds find out that the rent is too high or the area is not sufficient and ask for an alteration, and, if they do !'ot get a fair deal, the whole of their work IS lost. \Ve have ample precedent for refer­ring such Important matters as this to an independent tribunal. The returns a man may get from these selections are his wages. which in the case of other persons are fixed by the Board of Trade and Arbitration. All that th" amendment asks is that the equivalent of the selector's wages shall be decided by the Land Appe>tl Court-an experienced body which has been functioning for years. ln the Minister's own interests the amendment should be accepted. Even if it does no good, it cannot do any harm.

In de~tling with such matters as these relating to details affecting the life of the individual with whom the department is dealing, it is desirable th~tt they should be referred to a tribunal appointed bv Par­liament to be independent of the clepart­menL A Bill moulded on such lines would be far more lliwh· to be satisfactory.

lo~w·stion--Tbat .H:o words propos~d to be omitted (J1r. Corser's amendment) stand part of clause 2-put; and the Committee LliYided :-

A n:s, 3:l. Mr. Barber

Bedford , Bertram

Bulcock Carter Collins Conroy Cooper, F. A. Dash Dunstan Farrell Ferricks Fo!ey Gledson Hanson Eartley Hynes

Tellers: :.rr.

Mr .• Ton<·s •. Ktnvau , Llewclyn , Lloyd

J.tcCormack }f cLachlan

, M ullan I'easP

, Hiordan , Hynn, C. J. , Hyan, H . .J.

:-;rnith \Veir "\Vilson

, \"fjnstanlPy , Wright

~OES, 20,

Mr. Appel , Barnes, G. P. , Barnes, W. H.

Bell Clayton Corser Oostello Deacon

, Edwarl!s , l'ry

:Mr. Kelso 1\err

,, King Logan Moon• Hoberts Russell, H. }I, Swayne Taylor

,. \Varren 'l'f'llen;: 1Ir. Deacon ;1nd :\lr. Kerr.

AY!·R.

:.\'Jr. \\"eUington. ., O'Keefe ., [arcon,he

J' ATH.S.

:\oF". :J.Ir. VV:dkt'l'

::\f~!XWf'lJ

., Peterson

Rcwh-ed in the affirmative. Clause 2 agrcl~d to. ClauRc 3-" Provi,,ions to be extended to

other cnsr;s "-

]lfr·. TAYLOR (Windsor): I beg to move the following amendment:-

" On line 25, page 4, after the word­' permit,'

insert the words-' at any tirne.' "

[Jh·. Rwayne.

The SECRE'I'AUY FOR P1JBLIC LAl'\DS' (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gym pie): I will accept the >tmendment.

J\fr. TAY!.OR: 'rhank you.

Amendment {Jfr. Taylor) agreed to.

Mr. TA YLUlt IW:nrlsor): I be'\' t.o move tbo foUowinq an:endn1ent :-

" On lines :01 to 34 hoth inclusive, page 4. omit the ""rds.:_

' m a v in his rrbsolute diocretion app1;ove of such appiication accord­ingly or may refuse such application, or may approve of same subject to to such t('rn1s. conditions. provl.,Jons.,. or stipulations as he may deem fit.'

and insert the 'vord:--' shal) proc~ed , i;; th<_• matter as therem provickcl.

The SECRET"~HY FOR PUBLIC L \?\DS (Hon. T. ])unstan, Rympic): I cannot accept the amendment, which is consequential on the amondmcmt .a]readv moved by the hon. n1cmber for Bu~·nct-t an~d ne;~ativec't

Amendment (Jir. Trtylor) ncgativ<d.

Clause 3, as anlC'ndcd, agreed to.

Clause 4-" .4ppointment and funr:tions· of Land A.dministration Board''--

11r. l\IOORE (.L·•big.·y): I be;; to moYo the following nmendmc•nt :-

,,On line 42. pni!·c 4, omit ihe . ords­' one year,_

and insert the W(lrd-.~ ' seven yt:ars. ~ "'

If this is carried, I int< rHl tlle· follo,,Ying amendment:-

"On line 45, P"2'e 4, after t:u~ \vord­' proper'

insert the words-' The memben of the twHd m

appointed shall hold office fo1· the •aid period, suLjcct to good bckviour. anJ shaH not be rc!noYed th··rcfrom unless "'n addn:s3 pra~·ing for such rcn1oval shall be presented to the GovPrnor by the Legislative Assembly.

' In the case of illness. inn hilitv. or absence of anr n1cmber. tbC' GovC.rnor in Council n-iay appoint <n11f' other person to net as the deputy of such me·nbcr during such illnns. iaabilitv, or absence, and every such person shn 11, while he acts as snch dcDut•c, have all the powers and perfonn ~ alf thA duties nf, and be m]·.jcct to the -ome dis­abilities as .:;uch member.

' Such board shall furnish ·' m1Ually to the Lcgislati·n-• Assembly n report on such matters as it deems desirable or advi~abie to bring unde~' the- notire· of the Legislative Assombl:v.'' ' 1

The clause reads-" (L) For the better carrying ··mt of

the provisions of this _\et. and in par­ticular for assisting the· ::.\1inister in grant­ing drought relief to, gra7.ing selectors in .accordance ·with the pro\·j~iorF', hcrC>in contained. the Governor in Council mav appoint three perwns to be a Lan{l Administration Board (hercicwfter called ·the board'), for a term of one year frorr• the date of the commencement of thic Act, and for such longer period cs from time to time the GoYernor in ConnciJ~ deems proper."

Land Ac!s Amendment Bill. [ H DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 17 41

The idea of appointing a board at all is· to have some authority with definite power that v:ill be able to take evidence. Long before I came into Parliame11t one of the main desires of the settlers in country districts was to have a board appointed, one member at icast of which should be a practical man, such as a farmer or grazier, and, when this board was suggested. we thought it was going to carry into effect one of the principles that for a long time we have thought so desirable. "The position is made perfectly clear in the report of the Land Settlement Advisory .Board, which says on page 12-

" In the administration of Govern­ment departments, the Government of the

.day must -tand supreme. Complete con­trol cannot be handed oYer to boards or

·commissions, no matter how they may be c:onstituted, or how efficient they may be. The Ex:ecutive GoYernment must remain in con~rol and pm•sess the power of initiat­ing, guiding, or vetoing the acts of their officials. This is an axiom of constitu­tional government."

1 am not cavilling at that at all, but the buarcl certainly wants to be constituted on "uch a b:J.-.is that it will have some standing. A board that is only going to be appointr,d for twelve months and thereafter be con­tinued at t-he discretion of the Minister is really going to be of yery little value. The board shoul-d make a report to Parliament, which ill give Parliament an opportunity of kno~,Ying vvhat recon11nendations arc r:1ade by the board irrespective of the political colour '"I the Minister. The Minister is respon· ible for the administration oi a i1ugo department, .which inclu-des the Prickly-pear Land Commission, Commissioner of Irriga­tion, Forestry Board, and Main Roads Com­mission, and it is practically impossible for

>one man to carry out the administration of a huge department such as this in the way it ;,hould be carried out. Its ramifications extend over the whole of Queen--land. and the Minister can only exercise a cursory super­Yision over a great deal of the work of his dcpartm••nt. A great deal of work is ,-eally routine in character, and, when we are deal~ ing with such an important matter as the settlement of our grazing lands, we want to have some definite administrative board \Yhich ·.->ill have some little initiative and be independent elf the wishes of the Minislm·. The remarks I made on the report of the Land Settlement Advisory Board go to show the nece,,sity for some better system than at present in vogue in the -department. It is not u question of handing over sovereign or judicial powers to any board; but rt is a question of giving the board some opportm:ity of bein::; independent and of 'being able to make Sl!ggestions to the Minister wrth some oecurity of office. We all know what the position will be if the board is appointed for twelve months only. Under those cir·cum­stances :if it makes suggestions that in any way conflicts with the opinion of the Minis­ter, that will be the end of the board. If wr> have a board at all, we want one whicb will be of value, and a board such as I suggost would certainly be of great Yalue to ;.he Minister. The departmental officials at Lhc• present time have any amount to do without n1aking the investigations that are sur~r~osed to be carried out under this "Bill b~for•' making recommendations to the Minis! (•r. and it is essential to have a board witn rea­sonable security of office; and it should a loo be placed in the-position of"having·it' r·:com-

mendations place-d before Parliament. At the present time, if the board makes a sug­gestion that does not please the Minister, he• will throw it on ono si-de and the individua.l.i who settle on the land will have no redress. · We want to make it as safe as we can for these individuals and see that proper invest;. gation is made into all the suggestions :;hat come before the Minister before he gi vcs hio decision.

If the board is going to be composed merely of -departmental officials, the members will not have the time, apart from their o-rdi­nary work, to go out as they should to carry out the requisite investigations and make recommendations to the Minister before he gives his final decision. Such a huge respon­sibility is placed on the shoulders of the Minister that it is o~sential for him to have the very best independent advice obtainable. I would stress the necessity for having an independent board. I am not altogether in love with the board suggested by the Land Settlement Advisor;,- Board, which would be comprisod of officials. We really want to have men on a board who are not officials but who are representative of the grazing farmers, for instance, who are affected by the Bill, and who will be able to use the practical knowledge which they gained in the carrying out of thei·r grazing a vocations for the benefit of those engaged in the industry. In order to get that independent board it is necessary to have it appointed for a reasonable time. The Land Settlement Advisory Board sug­gested fifteen years, but that may possibly be too long. The Prickly-pear Land Commis­sion was appointed for ten years, without much experience or knowledge as to how it was going to turn out, but it has done effec­tive work, and there is not much to cavil at. But merely to appoint this board for one year, and then for such longer period as the Governor in Council may think proper, means as the Minister may think proper, and he will really decide whether the board shall be reappointed or done away with altogether aL the end of one year. As we are going in for a new departure in connection with land settlement, the very best advice should he secured for the benefit of the Minister, s) that he may get the best advice possible before he comes to his decision, and confi­dence may be given to the men who hav'c taken up ]and. I do not think that will be the case under the clause as it stands. Th<> proposed board is only going to be an echo of the Minister. A power of recommendation onlv is to be given to it. but it should be independent, and have an opportunity of g-oing afield before coming to a decision. It should be composed of people outside thl' public service. so that those in the industry will have confidence in it.

It has been stated bv hon. memhNs opno­site that our proposal.would give the board sovereign power. It seems rather late in the day to say that, considering that boards with enormous powers have been appointed durin-< the last few years. I did not hear hon. members opposite raise this objection wh,,n those boards were appointed.

Mr. HARTLEY: They a-re only advisory.

:'v1r. MOORE : If the hon. member £,,,. Fitzroy can read into this clause that the hoard is to be anything but advisory, I wan~ to know where it is. The p-roposed board will have far less power than either the Main Roads Commission or the Prickly-pear Land

111r. 111oore.]

1742 Land Acts Amendment Em. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Act.~ Amendment Bill.

Commission. I want the board to be effocbve and of some value, and not just an eche> of the Minister's wishes.

I want to give the board a tenure of, say, sen•n v~ars, so that it will be independent, and will be able to make suggestions know­ing that it cannot b':' abolished if it should happen that the l\'hmster does not agree

\vith it and so that it will be [4 p.m.] able to' place before Parliament

a ropo1·t which will let Parha­rnC>ut know what it is doing. The sugges­tion in the report of the Land Settlement Advisory Board is a good one, and. Its adoption would giy~ confidence an~ stab1llty to the people. particularly to the mdn·Hlual '-' ho is going upon the land.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LAi':DS !Hon. T. Dunstan, Uympic): I do not see nnv necessih for the amendment. Gndor the Bill the board will hold office for one vear. and such further time as may from tin1o to iin1e be considered neces~a,r\. There i' no yirtne in haYing a board appointed for J. fixed period, or for any longer than io is mquired. Nor do I think there is any nocrssitv for the board to make a report to Padiarr;cnt. Its function is that of an a.clvi,ory board investigating applications by grazing selector:., and any information c,lJich it may obtain as a re·ult of those investigations which is of public importance n ay bo incorporated in the annnal report of the Department of Public Lanch. I cannot accept the amenchncnt.

}[r. CORSEE (!Jurnett): I am sorry the ::\~jnister cannot sec his wa:T to accept a !'C·a <Jnable nrnenJn1ent because, if the board i..- to be of auy value, it ruust bo appointed tor period of years. rrho Prickly-pear Land Comn1ission \Vas appointed for ten ~-c. r~. and other sirnilar hodi,: '~ have been appointed for longer periods than one year. _·\s lin1o goes on the mcrnbcrs bccornc rnore ;md more used to the dutie· .. of their office, ,. 'ld tJ1cref01'e more Yaluablc.

Thr S1 CRETARY FOR PuBLIC LAXDS : The Prickly-pear I.and Cornrni·_,sion has judicial 130VVPl·:;.

~Ir. CORSER: It has groat powers, but '-Y0 arc not asking for that. "'"'" e are asking for a seven~Ycar tenure in order that the Loard may be able to carry out the following purpoecs r sug-g-ested by the LtLnd Settle­ment Advisory Board :-

'' (1) Securing co-ordination bet\vecn the different sections of lands adminis­tr: tion, particularly between the Land-; Department and the Prickly-pear Land Corrn11ission-

" (2) Arhi ing the Government on all importltnt C[UC ·,tions of lancl3 administra­tion and lc,)slation from tirr1e to time.

" (3) Hegulating the mode and condi­tions under which lands are made avail­ab!<' for settlement.

" (4) Providing for the adequate train­ing of departmoutal officers so that, as tinw goes on, a nurnber of thetn rnay be equipped for the higher posts of adminis­t.ratiYe responsibility.

'· (5) Recommending such adjustments in land tenures and otherwise as have been rendered necessary by the drought, and as may become necessary from time to ti1ne."

[Mr. Moore.

And, generally, such a board would ad,·ise· the Minister with regard tGr-

,, Adjusting the terms and c011Jitions· of existing tcnur0::,, o.pening lands for settlernent, flxing areas and rent~, declaring forfeittn·~c~~~ resumption action:?, and the payment of comp<>nsation."

Those are verv intricate matters which hanc to be· d.ccided' by the Department of Public Land&, one of the largest departments of the State. No board can get properly on it' feet i11 twelve 1nont.hs. It need~" sorne tinH0. :\1r. A. H. Fr!mklin published in the Rock­hampton " Bulletin " a most comprehensive survey of the whole position of cur \Yest::rn lands, and stated what ,_ms b·~st to be done there.

Through the courtesy of the hon. member for Rockhampton I was able to peruse and fully digest this very interesting-, compre­hensive, and Yaluable re'port. The amend­ment does not ask for anything- more than the Minister at present approYes, oth,,r tha:1 that the ::Vlinister is asked to ''Free no,,- tha! the board shall be appointed foi~ seven yeare. If I were administering the department wit!1 its intricate land laws, I should b pleased to have the assistance of such a board. Th•' lVIinister recognises the 'visdom of .tppointnJt, this board, and I hope he \Yill accept :he' amendment.

Mr. COLLINS (Be-teen): I was hear the ::Vlinister say that he tion of accepting the amendn1Lm-t. ko jr that the Oppo.,ition are looking- i'vnvc ed t<:> the time when they will occupy th • benches; but, judging by their afL;rnoon, they have given sufiicicnt of their unfitLe;.3 t.o ~,,ovcrn th'J State or: Queensland. According to the the hon. member for Burnctt, the:· sufficient intelligence to corr1c to unaide·d bv a board '"hich the• to Lavo appointed "for seven years. Tl;:_·~; l'•·fcr to 1Jw po\Yers granted to tbr:: Cornrnis,.·•ionp~· nf Irri­gation and the ~lain Roacl. ioJF:'t: but t\yo \Yrongs never rnade a rnust not perpetuate that wronp:. aim:; at b:cping the po\ve;·s \ViLhili the lwJJd of the representatives of the pe · -,j,-. If th,, :Minister shOLJld do anything \Ho,v, the" thi­partv, first of all, will call him LO ac-cnun\, and -later on Parliament can call him to account; but in adopting the anwnd1nt" nt \i e -would Lo g<-3tting away from tl.e ' r~7 fir:< principles of reprcsent~~tive gcy;,_';·n;w:;nt. I have ahYays fought against- giving COJ:nnis· sioncrs the power grante.d under 'L.nnc of th Acts passed. C'Tcn by a Labour Govcnunent. It is not democracy. but is -::hiHin:; V)~ ards a kind of bureaucracv which btcr o" we C'l' others holding sjmi!al~ opi11i~,a-.: will have to db:troy.

11r. TAYLOR (Windsor!: 1 L';ink the ;Hinister might nry well accepl the ; mer,d­ment. Tho board provided for in the clauee can be described onlv as ~t ':ti1l-bor_l boa1 d, and will be still-born 'for the period of hYclve months until it is buried. 'rho G),,crnment, perhaps, realise that quite a nnub "' of the activities proposed in the Diil ar2 g:)in~· to fail, and they \Yill be able to "'i pc out the board without very much troubl.•.

The hon. member for BCJwe:l eo mplaincd about the Government taking awuy r~o1ver from the reprcsentatiYes o£ the pcopl", but there is no such propo . ..,:tl in d1G .tnnendn!eDli by the Leader of the ()DP'JS;tio". l bPlieYo-

Land Acts Amendment Bill. [U DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1743

that members of the PrickJ:,·-pc~t· Land Com­mission arc appointed for ten years. yet the hon. member for Bowen, who says that he is not in favour of appoii1ting nlcrnber<,, of boards for long periods, is supporting a Go­·.-ernment who have done the y._,ry thing of which he now complains.

It is rather rem ,rkable that the hon. rncmber should now speak in opposition to a proposal when he knows that he supported ~in1ilar prorJOsals in connection witl1 other boards that have boon created by this Go­Ycrnmcnt. This proposal should have care­ful consideration. It will be t·,•·ch-e months "Jter this board is brought into being before it can do anything. It will have any amount of \York to do in rnaking the necessary inquiriu in connection with the duties which ar<' cnunwrated in the clause. It is absurd to expect any th·ee men to take up and dischar~·e the duties expected of them under this Bili in tweh·e months.

Amendment (Mr. Jf a ore) negatiYod.

:\1r. CORSER (Burnett): I bog to move the following amendment:-

,,On line 13, page 6, omit the words­. 1nay in his discretion '

and insert the word-' shall.'"

\Y·~ now r~on1c to tho tin1c v;lwn the boal·d cease~ to function. l t is now proposed to dcle:sate powers and rPsponsibilities to the Land Court .'."ithout giving it any po\vers of i:nn~stigation or the assistance "-hich i;-; u;;;ually g·ivt:.'n to tribunals.

Thf' SEC'EETARY FOR PLBLIC L.\~DS: T'h(•re !·HlY be no nect. ':litv to refer rnatter:-; LJ th La;td Comt. '

::\_ir. COitSER: The claw,c ;;,tatc" that the :\Iini,ter shall refer "uch matters to tlw ,·ourt, "::d the amendment only er'eks to

it n1antlatorv that the J.rini ·h•r shall 1n1.ttPrs to th~; court.

The SECTIETARY FOR P'C'BLIC LX'\D . .; {1--!on. T. Dun·,"tnn, Uympi('): It would bL~ an absul'dity to accept this an1enLllnc.·nt. If th8 board ceases to e~~ir:t, then it can br~

tkcn that the 'York for which it wa; appointed also ceases.

::~fr. Co:t:sr:n: It r'.~jll never c~_ a~c wl1ilst 1\·c have Cro•.vn lands.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC L\NDS: The Land Court has nothing c,dJ<Lte\'81' to du \Yith this particular matter. It would be nbsurd to compel the 1!.Iinictnr to refer adn1inistl'ativc matters to the Land Court., <ts that would hatnpor adrn~!_lis~ra6on in (_', ery wuy. rrhis cl::tuse gives the ~~ini;:.t(~r discretionary po"\ver to refer so1no nuttters for tho determination of the court even after the board ceases to exist, but it can be taken that, if there is work for the board to do, the board will remain in operation.

Amendment (jh. Corse1·) negatived. Clause 4 agreed to. Clause 5-" Personal residenrr:; on r;ra.:in(J

homesteads selected since lst Jrn1uary 1917 ,_ ,

The SECRETARY FOR P1.'BLIC L\.XDS (Hall .. T. Dunstan, riympie): I boo· to move the following amendment:-. ~

" On linec; 19 ami 20, 1nge 7, omit the wcrds-~

':-:in cc the 1st day of ,J anuar:v. ono thou~end niue hunclrc•d and 'eYen­teen.' :>

These words are a redundancy, as they already appear in thn first part of thn clause. If they are retained here, they would impose personal rc.:iidence condjtions on lessees n s coming under section 72 of the Land Act Amendment Act o£ 1917 who are not carrying any such conditions.

:\l[r. COS'I'ELLO (Carnart•on): I was hoping that the Minister \\'auld see his way de a~ to give relief to the soldier settlers who took up land under the Land Act of 1920--

Tho CHAIRMAN : Order ! I am afraid the hon. member is not discussing the amend­ment.

::\lr. COSTELLO: I understand that it is th. inL•ntion of the ::Ylinister in so.11e future session of Parlianwnt to rnako provision foi·. those settlers.

The CHAIR'YlAN Order ! Order ! "\mcnclment (Jfr. Duns/an) agreed to.

il-1•·. MOORE (.lubigny): The second paragraph of subclause (a) reads--

" For any period subsequent to such first periDd of seyen years and to the end of the term of the lease of the grazing ho1nesteac.l, the condition of per~ >•onal residence shall not apply to such grazing hornestcad if such selector so continues as the selector thereof, but the condition of occupation a~ defined in section 80 hereof shall apply."

The sek•·tor under ·'•2ction 89 is in a verv d:ficrcnt po~ition to ,,-hat he was in unde~r the ]Hiwipal c\ct. L' ne! er the principal Act the bailiff must bo a person who is qualified to select similar land. Urder t':lc principal _.-\et practic,dly anyone -~yas capab~e of being; qu, lificd to be a 'elector so loHg as he did not o'vn a large area of land; but under rhis Bill th" man qualified to be a selector· 11lllf.lt haYc a con~iderabJe amount of Inonov, and unchr section 89 a n1an -r-lu· is goir}g­to be a bJ.iliff will have to qualify hy ha,Ying snfiicicnt rnoney to stock up the an-~ ·,\ ithin t.hr~..'e years ~~nrl. sulficient n1oncy also to imprOYe it as the :Min;stcr thinks desirable. L~ndcr these cireun1stanccs it rr:av be difficult to sccurn ono 'vith these quafific :tions to bailiff one of these se-lectio-ns.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (flon. T. Dun•tau, Oympie): Th-- qualifica­tions of a bailiil' woulcl be the same "s those applJ in.s to any nev\~ selector a1)plying fo1· hwcl. The coudition of occupation n·3 defined u~~ch r section P9 i.s yery explicit

:\Ir. ::\lOORE (Aubiuny): Secticm 89 say; that the bailiff must be an individual who is qnalified to select a similar selection, and to be qualified under this Bill he must have >ulficient money to enable him to stock tho >dcetion a'"d suffici0nt money to enable him t) imprOYe it.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \VORKS: Your contention is that the bailiff must have ali the qualilicationc> of a selector?

:\h. MOO RE: Section 89 says that a man authorised to act as a bailiff must be quali­fied to select a simila1· selection to the one he is bailiffing. If a man has sufficient capital to bo qualified to take up a grazing selection, he will in all probability noc want to be a bailiff. Under the old Act there was no difficulty, b•:cause it was provided that prac­tically anyone could go in for a selection, unless he had the disqualification of having

Mr. Moore.]

1744 Land Acts ~ lmendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Lrmd Acts Amcndme1 t Bill.

too much land; but under this Bill the quali­fications necessary before a man can take up a grazing selection are very different. I think it is going to be very difficult to secure a bailiff under these conditions. The Minister might make it clear whether a man has to hold the necessary qualifications to enab'e him to take up a selection under the Bill in order to act as bailiff, because I do not ~8e how it is going to be done.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gympic): In answer to the point raised by the Leader of the Oppo­sition, residence conditions apply to thes•e new selections, and also to the bailiff in th<> case of selections which are subject only :o occupation conditions.

HoN. W. H. BARKES (Wynnurn): I would suggest that the 1finister might post­pone this particular dause and look into the matter meanwhile.

The CHAIRMAN: The Minister could recommit the clause if he finds it necessarv to get in any such amendment. •

Mr. CORSER (Burnett) : I beg to mo,·c the following amendment :-

" On lines 20 to 23, page 7, omit the words-

' if the selector has already fulfilled five years' personal residence on the land comprised in the expired lease,'

and insert in lieu thereof the words-' if the condition of five ycan' p01·.

sonal residence has already boon ful. filled on the land compriseci in the expired lease, either by the original lessee of the selection nr L1y any person or persons to whom such selec­tion was subsequently transferred.' "

Section 72 of the principal Act gives pr<Jfer­ence to the original selector of a holdiwl' over one portion or subdivision. The Bill proviclos the concession which has been achocau·d by Opposition members during the debate--that is, that the holder of a selection under ,,oc­tion 72 should not be called upon to perform personal residence conditions for seven years, as required by the Act. That is prov1clwl i" the clause, but it does not provide that in the event of the original selector having sold to another eligible selector after performing his perRCnal residence conditions that con­cession is transferred to the new hold,~r oi the selection. The amendment provides that whoever is the holder of the selection at ih<· expiration of the lease no fresh demand for personal residence shall be made in regard to the selection. The new lessee should e••joy the same concession, becanse the condition of personal residrmce has been carried out pr · viously on that portion by the origin~ I selector.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA'\IDR (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gym pie): I cannot accept the amendment. All that will be required of the ~elector under this subclaLISP will be that he will personally reside on the

selection a<'quircd under section [4.30 p.m.] 72 of the Consolidaird Acts for

such time as will complete f1ve vears' ,.,,,idence. I han• an amendment to propO"C later which will meet the caen.

Mr. R!OORE ( . .J.ulJir;ny): The last para­graph of the subclause (c) reads-

. ' From time to time, as the land is transferred, the condition of personal

[Mr. Moore.

re ,.idence shall be reimposed in the lease of such grazing homestead for " period of five years from the date of the regis­tration of each transfer."

Subsection 4 (a) of section 109 of the Con­solidated Acts, 1910 to 1918, imposes the condition of perpetual personal residence during the term of the lease in respect of all grazing homesteads acquired after 1st January, 1917. A mistake was obviously rr~ade in not exempting personal residence on grazing homesteads after that date by existing lessees upon expiry of their leases under the priority section of the Act-that is, section 72. This mistake was rectified in the amending Act of 1922, >~·hen sLtch priority leases acquired after 1st January, 1917, were macle subject to occupation conditions only. Clause 5 (c) of this Bill, however, again imposes personal residence in the case of an existing selector who has not completed five years' personal residence. If he is a pur­chaser from the original selector, there has never hitherto been any obligation for him t'' perform any personal residence, the old condition of five years' personal residence being fulfilled by the origmal selector. Per­sonal resiclencc is also imposed bv this clause in the case of cverc· transferee after th(• passing- of the Bill. "That means that, if a selecto>' who took up his land in 1900 or 1904 and fulfilled his conditions, got priority and now wanh to sell, his market is restricted, bee a use the man to whom he sells has also to perform residence conditions.

The SECRETARY FOR l'r:BLIC LANDR : 'When I rr>oYe my amendment later the clause will not apply to any area selected prior to the pa, __ ,ing of the Land Acts Amendment Act of 1925.

:\Ir. :\IOORE : At present the clause is '\.\TOng.

Amendment (Jir. CorM:r) negatived.

:\1:-. CORSER (!Jurnett): I beg to move the following amendment:-

"On lines 28 to 34, page 7, omit the \Yards-

' If the selector has not fulfill0d f<Ye years' personal residence on the land cornp1·ised in the expired lease, the ne••, selection shall be subject to the condition of personal residence for such a period as is required to corr1plete fiye years' personal residence on the land by the selector,'

and insert in lieu thereof the wordc-' If such condition of five yc-,1rs'

personal rcsideLce on the selection has not been so fulfilled, the new selection shall be subject to the con­dition of perwnal residence for such further period as is required for the fulfilment of such condition.' "

Tl1e clausA as it stands means that, if a •elector has not fulfilled his five years' r~sicicncc conditio1:s, he must start all over again; hut the amendment provides that he shall be credited with the time he has rc·~ided on the selection, so thttt he will not be double-bt1nked.

The SEl'RET~\RY FOR PUBLIC LA"'DS (Ho!l. T. Dunstan. (/1Jn•pir): I can?lot accept the amendment for the came reason as I gaye on the previous amendment. M;," pro­pose-d amendment will deal with th~ cas•' dealt with by this amendment al"o .

Amendment (Jir. Cars, r) negatived.

Land Acts Amen1ment Bill. [14 DECE:>~IBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1745

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS \Hon. T. Dunstan, Uympie): I beg to move ihc following amendment :-

" On lino 39, page 7, after the Wvrd­' transfer,'

insert the following proviso:-' Provided that nothing· in thi.-:

paragraph (c) shall extend and ap;Jly to a grazing homestead acquired prior to the passing of the Land Acts Amendment Act of 1925, nor lo '' grazing hornestead co1nprising the whole or a part of an expired holding which was not at the time of thl' expiry thereof subject to the con­dition of personal residence, but tho condition of occupation as ·defined in 2ection 89 hereof shall extend and apply.'"

The insertion of this proviw is necessary to enact that the modified condition of per­sonal residence as defined now in the clauoP will apply only to those grazing homesteacis which carry a personal residence conditio11. and which were acquired under section 78: since the passing of the 1925 Amending Act. That Act imposed a much heavier personal re.:;idence condition. Those acquired un:dtn_· section 72, prior to the passing of the Amend­ing Act of 1925, and those to be acquired later which in terms of the present law will not carry a personal residence condition, will be subject as at present to the condition of occupation only.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause 5, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 6-" Conversion of certain perpetual leases to gra ;,ing ho,mesteads "-

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS ·(Hon. T. Dunstan, (/ympie): I beg to move the following amendment:-

" On line 20, page 8, after the word­' hon1esteads.'

insert the words-' (other than grazing homesteads acquired pursuant to the provisions of cection 72 of the principal Act).' "

Clause 5, which modifies the present con­·dition of personal residence with respect to grazing homesteads, will enact the extent to which the selector's personal rcsi·dence is necec,ary, "-hen (1) the selection is acquired in the ordinary way, and (2) when the selec­tion is acquired by the late lessee of an expired holding, with priority under section 72. As both sets of conditions cannot pos­sibly apply to one selection, it is necc',sary to amend clause 6 as proposed to make the intention clear. The perpetual lease selections which >are converted to grazing homesteads under clause 6 will thus be subject to the same condition of personal residence as grazing homesteads acquired in the ordinarv way, si'cce the 1st January, 1917. ·

Mr. CORSER (Burnctt): I am not too clear re_g>;rding the explanation given by the :Yhmster. Does he moan that grazinv selec­tions will be subject to the same p"ersonal residence conditions as grazing homesteads"!

Tho SEORETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : Th0 amendment .applies only with respect to perpetual lease selections.

Mr. nORSER: T'his is a matter of p_,r­sonal residence conditions being imposed with reepect to land selected other than in

1927-·51'

the Capella district, which might not other­wise be subject to personal residence con­ditions_

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA~ms: This applies in f uch cases where personal r~-.:sidenCL' conditions apply.

Amendment (Jlr. Dunstan) ag,·eed to.

Clause 6, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 7-" Li'Pino areas may be acquired as r;razing sd·-ctimts"-

Mr. DEACON (Cunningham): I beg to move the following amendment:-

'· On line 43, page 8, omit the words-' "-ilhout any notice or process what­soever,'

a>1cl insert in lieu thereof the words-' in accordance "ith the provisions contained in Division IV. of Part VI. ,,f the principal Act.' "

It is rather drastic to accuse a 1nan of knowingly acquiring a selection contrary to thE provisions of this clause and declaring that selection forfeited without giving him an opportunity of being heard. He should at k~st ha vc the opportunity o£ being heard bdore the Land Appeal Court and going through the ,~ame procedure as in the case of a man "-ho is called upon to show cause.

'l'h, SECRETARY FOR PlJBLIC LANDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, aympic): I do not intend ta accept the amendm0nt. This clause deals with a question of fact. The Minister under this clause must certify in writing that the combined areas in question are not more than a living area, but he must give that certificate be-fore the selector is eligible to acquire any additional area. Therefore, if a selector acquires an additional area without that certificate, he nnu;'t do so bv evasion or fraud. which is merely a quest"ion of fact. The inclusion of the words suggested in the .amendinent is unnecessary.

Mr. DEACON (Cwmingham.): If a man is charged with acquiring a. selection by evasion or fraud, he should be called upon to show cause. Is this provision copied from the principal Act? To n1e it is quite a new matter. Under the principal Act selectors are always called upon to show cause before their selections are forfeited.

Mr. TA Y.LOR (TVindsor): Th" person acquiring the selection might have acquired i~ in a perfectly legitimate way, and the act of fraud might have been commii.ted by the party who disposed of it to him; yet the Minister is to have the power of forfeit11re without giving the selector any notice what­ever. While the Crown should go for the guilty person for all it is worth, it· is only right that a person acquiri11g it innocently and honestlv should not he dealt ·with in the manner 'proposed by the clause.

Amendment (J.fr. Dwcon) negatived.

Clause 7 agreed to. Clause B~"Dtfinition: Living a1'cn "~

agreed to. Cl:.tuse 9-" 1llini.'Jtcr m.ay 1Jer·rnit acquisi~

lion of further auas "-

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS !Hon. T. Dunstan, Gprnpie): I beg to move the following amendment:-

'·On line 36, page 9, omit the words­' of a grazing selection.' "

H on: T. D1tnstan.]

1746 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amendment Bill.

The omission of those \Yards will widen the scope of thG clause and m'"ke it possibk for the Minister to permit of the acqmsr­tion of further areas.

Amendment agreed to.

The SECRET_\RY FOR PUBLIC LAC\DS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gpmpie): I beg to moYe the following amendment:-

" On lines 43 and 44, page 9, omit the words-

' grazing selection or grazing selec­tions,'

and insert in lieu thereof the words­' selection or selections.' "

Amendment agreed to.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA);DS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gym pie): I beg to rnoYo the following amendment:-

" On lines 5 and 6, page 10, omit the words-

' grazing selections,' and insert in lieu thereof the word­

' selections.' " Amendment agreed to.

Mr. COSTELLO (Carnarvon): I beg b move the following amendment :-

" _After line 6, pa.ge 10, insert the words-

' JYioreover, In any case "\V her_: the Minister is s11tisfied that a selection comprises an area which . is _not a livina area and such selection Is sub­ject to the condition of personal re--i­donee during the "·hole of the term of the lease, the l\1inister may grant to the selector for such period as he considers proper exemption from such condition of personal residence.' "

If that amendnwnt is accepted, it ,,·ill give some relief to those who selected perpetual lease selections. It will only apply to those soldier settlers who scle~t0d 1mdcr the 1917 and 1920 Acts. It was nc;-er intended b · any Government to impose a penalty of per­petual residence on sclectjons on which jt ~.' as not possible to 1nake a living. 'rhc-sc selectors are su!Iering considerable hardship. and they ha•e no prospect of m<tking a living until they acquire a further area.

The SECRETAHY FOR PUBLIC LAXDS (I-Ion. T. Dunstan, CJympie): I cannot accept the amendment, -,,hich proposes to allow the :'\finister to break the law. The amendment provides that the Minister may suspend the personal residence conditions until the ,appli­cant gets his additional area. Pending a determination, an applicant may at present apply to the Land Court for exemption for ,ix months of the year. Sympathetic con­sideration will be given in any case of hardship.

}fr. DEACON (Cunningham): Sympathetic consideration is not enough. I have had cases in which sympathetic consideration was neces­sary, and all it amounted to was six months' exemption. I can give the :.Ylinister a case where forfeiture occurred. A man ,died and left his widow and daughter two selections, which were not li.-ing areas. The selections were forfeited, but the holders did not los" the improvements, because the J'.finister of the day gave them the value of the improv<>­ments. This was a case where it was not possible for the holders to live on the selec­tions, and they were forfeited. I can qnote

[Hon. T. Dunstan.

another case which occurted in rrlY electorate_ A selector bought a piece of land adjoining his selection, and he did not know it was ,abject to personal residence condition~­Although the original selector ha,d cleared the prickly-pear and put in a good deal of \York, the purchaser was required to fulfil the condition of personal residence, and, as he could not do so, forfeited the selection_ There are cases like that occurring m·ery day. There are any number of holders who ean only hold selections through the Crown lands ranger shutting his eyes to the posi­tion-where men ha.-c taken up selections to which the condition of personal residence is attached but it is not possible to live on them. lt is cases like that which we want the Mini>­ter to have power to deal "·ith. He is giving concessions to grazing selectors and pastoral lP,secs, and why should he not gi-, c them to these small holders?

The SECRETARY FOR PL.TBLIC LA~DS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Uympie): The argument' of the Opposition are inconsistent. A littl<' while ago they wished to take away from the :Minister some of his discretionary power ; in this amendment they want to giye him more power than the Land Court has got.

By application to the Land Court a lessee ran get six months' cxen1ption if there is reawnable occasion for it. The object of the amendment is that the Minister shall be able

to give exe1nption in excess of six [5 p.m.] months in each year if he so

desires. He has alreadv thL' power to refer the matter to the Land' Court to consider whether six months' exemption shall be given, so that the objc·'t of the amendment is a-dmittedly to give the }iiniotcr more power than the court possnses. HorL n1emb''!.'S opposite arc inconsistent, and I cannot accept the amendment.

}Vlr. CORSER (Burntlt) : The amcndmem \VOnld be >Yorthless if it did not propose to­give the power to the Minister, b_c:cusc- b:-, clause 3 the Land Adrninistration .Board ha~ no effective power.

Tho amcndn1ent js n1crcly a proposal of the hon. member for Carnarvon to deai svmpathetically with cases in his own elec­t~mte of holders of perpetual lec,seholds of 600 acres of grazing lands on which-although the canving· capacitv is probably only a beast to l6 acres-the. condition of perpetual personal residence is imposed. The amend­ment will enable the Minister to do what oug-ht to be done without breaking fro la\Y, and exempt these people from the condition of personal rtsidence in order to permit them to make a living else\vhere until they can make application under clause 2 for increased areas to enable them to obtain living areas. vVe know that they can obtain exemption for six months f,rom 'the Land Court, but it i> impossible for them in six months to make a, living for the whole year. Many of them could work for their neighbours between now and the time when additional land is thrown open if exemption could only be given.

I was gTeatly impressed with the statemem of the hon. member for Carnarvon. It rs scandalous to allow the present condition of things to continue. The Minister tells us that we are asking him to break the law. He is askino- the settlers to break there hearts. This Bill is supposed to afford relief to the pastoral lessees and grazing selectors: but here the Minister is closing the door on the opportunity to giYe relief to poor men

La/l(l Acts Amendment Bill. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amcr<dm,nt Bill. 1747

with 600 acres of grazing country till they C'an get living al'e~s: I a~ very much s~r­prised that the Mm1ster w1ll not _accept tne amendrnent, since 1t asks for assistance fo·r the smallest men in the grazing industry.

Mr. COSTELLO (Carrvarvon) : I cxpecte_d that the Minister would give sympathetic consideration to these men. Here we have probably the most unfortunate class of settler in the history of our grazing land settlement-men on small perpetual lease­holds carrying the perpetual residence con­dition without any prospect of malnng a living on them. The holdings are only 400 600 or 700 acres of grazing land, and they were taken up by soldiers on their return from active service. Very often these settlers find that they cannot make a living, and they apply to the Minister for permission to sell, and the p~r~haser finds that he is not in any better pos1t10n to make a living than the late lessee.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : All cases will receive sympathetic consideration.

Mr. COSTELLO: The law at present permits an exemption for only s1x months.

The SECRETARY FOR Pt:BLIC LANDS: Svmpathetic consideration will be given in n:erv case of hardship. I cannot accept the umet1dment. which is altogether too wide.

:\Jr. COSTELLO: The amendment will enable the Minister to give relief on the rcc:ommendation of the Land Administration Board. This applies only to soldier settle­meuts, and probabl;c- there are only about tw~nt.y Uocks affected throughout the State.

The SECRETARY FOR PUDLIC L \.);DS (Hon. T. Dunstau, Ciympic): I propose to give ar1 illustration in support of my refllsal to accept the amendment. If a property is seriously affected by a drought, exemp­tion can be crrantcd for six rnonths, and as a matter of" nractice, if the drought con­tinues, exemption ;s granted for a further six months. In cases of hardship as much leniency as possible is extended, and all casPs a re dealt with on their merits. The amend­rncmt merely says that the l\1inister " n1ay " do certain things.

'\Ir. :MOO RE (A ubigny) : The :\linister ndmittcd that he had not the necessary power to deal with the matter, and suggested that the hon. member for Carnarvon was seeking to do something to enable the law to be broken. The amendment permits of the :Vlinister waiving the residential conditions in certain circumstances. We are not talking about the drought at all. We arc considering areas of land on which it is impossible for a man to make a living. I believe the Minister has had two or three deputations in connection with grazing selections at Kilkivan which are too small. and on which it is impossible to make a living. If the Government settle a man on an area of land on which he cannot make a living because it is too small, then it is their duty to 0xempt him from the residential conditions twtil such time as they are able to add to that land in order to make it a living area.

At 5.13 p.m.,

:11r. F. A. CooPER (Brerner), one of the panel of Temporary Chairmen, relieved the Chairman in the chair.

Mr. MOORE: The amendment is quite in ae< ord with the principles of the Dill. It enables the selector in the meantime to go

'omew wre else to earn his living without tlw forfeiture of his land. At the present time a man on such an area can :>ppeal to the Land Appeal Court and get exemption horn the residential conditions· for six months; but we ask that the Minister should be placed in a position to exempt that man until he is given an area. on which he can make a living. Surely it is a reasonable· suggestion to place before the Minister ! It i,; the fault of 'his own department that these men cannot make a living off the areas thrown open to selection. This amendment will .rectify that error.

Mr. HARTLEY: If a man cannot make a living on a selection, wny should he not surrender it?

Mr. MOORE: He might want only a 'mall additional piece to make it a living area. vVhy should he surrender it if he has placed improvements on the land? ·

:\lr. HARTLEY: It is no good holding on t•' a piece of land on which he cannot make a living.

1\Ir. MOORE: The Bill makes provision for a man who has not a living area taking up <'Xtra land to make it a livirw area· and until ~e. gets that opportunity ~·e as!~ that t~e Mmrstcr should be empowered to give lmn exemption to go somewhere else to earn a living without insistin~ on com'1liance with the r. sidential conditio,';. Then; is nothino· drastic in the amendment, which does not aller the principle of the clause in anv way. It will simply enable the Minist0r to" carry out what should be done without the eolectors breaking the law.

:\It-. SW AYNE (Jl irani): There is no doubt. that exaggerated ideas have beNt held in the past as to what constitutes a living area, and we know how people haYe been encouraged h SC"ttlo On areas W hi eh ha VC been Jto,ether too srnall. 'rhis is a very neccssJXV a~ncnd­mcnt in Yiew of the knowledge we· have on rho. subject. If it is not a~epted. land on whteh present holdet·s cannot make a living '' dl be forfcitecl and leased to someo:re else, ard the new holders will not !Jc, m:Y better off than t.ho original selectors. ari'd n1ust eventtwlly surrender their holcli! ·. The llllll \Yho has ma.de a certain or;:ount of iwpron'mcnts on the land in the tlrst instance i.-3 0ntit!cd to concessions and to ~whatever ,,clditional area is necessary to enable him to n~ako a living.

Hox. W. H. BARNES (TVynnum): It has been very clearly pointed out that there are areas on which it is impossible to make a li ,-ing, and the Bill itself make' nrovision for tbe enlargement of those areas. ~

The SECRETARY FOR Pt:BLIC LA:-iDS: It does not make provision for unconditioual selec­tion.

Ho:-i. W. I-I. BAR~;Es: That mav bo so but right through the Bill the ll1ini'ster ha~ po'Yer to do certain things, and now we cla1m that he should also be in a position to come to the r()scue of the small man in the same way that he can in connection with grazing areas. There is nothinrr unfair in making that claim. Hon. members"on both sides are out to do the best they Cc'.n to help the small man, therefore the Minister should accept an amendment placing wider powers in hi3 hands. He has told us that th'" court \Yill give exemption for the firc,t six months and then after that he may grant a. further Pxtension. That being so, would it not be

Hon. W. H. Barnes.]

1748 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amendment Bill.

very much better for the hon. gentleman to accept !he responsibility and put in black and white in the Bill power to deal with those areas v; hi eh require enlargement?

Mr. G. P. BARNES (War1ric!.·): I very strongly support the amendment. The Yl:inister should realise that in granting this concession he is in no. way abu'3ing his power or influence, as the amendment is in full accord with the general spirit of the Bill, which is to give relief in various direc­tions. In giving relief why should we not take into consideration those who hold leases in regar-d to which it is impossible to comply ·with the conditions without very great loss to the selectors? A great deal of hard­·ship h,s been and is being inflicted on selectorJ on account of !heir having to carry out the residential conditions under the Act. Tako prickly-pear lands. A selector may not be able to carry out the clearing of prickly­pear except by his own labour, and he has frequently to lea vo his selection for long periods to earn sufllcient to enable him to live while clearing further pear. In other nses ther8 are mountain selections which . arc only fit for turning out stock in limited numbers, and on which it is altogether impos­sible for a man to obtain a living. If the Minister onlv know the conditions of the various settlers I have in mind, he would agree to the amendment. I trust he will see his way to accept the amendment, so :that he will be able to help many settlers who are experiencing trouble in fulfilling .their conditions.

Mr. LOGA).J (Lockyc'r): The position with Tegard to this matter has been correctly outlined bv the hon. member for Carnarvon. I have had experience in connection with settlers who are considerably handil'apped by the conditions prevailing to-day. On differ­ent occasions when visiting the Roma district I ha vc come in contact with settlers there holding blocb of from 500 to 600 acres. It may be possible in good seasons to make a reasonable living on those blocks, but as soon as se'!sons become dry it is absolutely impos­sible to make a living on those areas in that box countrv. The amendment of the hon. member for Carnarvon is quite reasonable. If we bind. people to conditions which it is impossible to perform, we are not going to E·ncouragc closer settlement. It would suit the people in th<e locality I have mentioned if the residential conditions were suspended until the Government have decided what shall be a living area. It is quite clear that the Government are not satisfied that the settlers have reaconable livinr,- areas, because they arc prepared to give them exemption for six months fend also for snch further period as the Minister thinks fit.

l\Ir. CLAYTOK (Wide Bay'): I trust that the Minister will accept the amendment of the hon. member for Carnarvon. \Vhere he is not satisfi0d th0J an area is an adt.'quate living area he should exempt the holder from complying with the resi-dential conditions of the Act. I can quote instances in mv elec­torate in connection with the Elambah Estate. in the Kilkivan district. There are men !.here on areas ranging from 98 acres in one instance to 110 acres and upwards in other instances. No one will seriously contend that with the small rainfall in that district 98 acres or 110 acres is a living area. :Many of these settlers, who are returned soldiers. have been forced to leave their holdings and earn a. living elsewhere simply because their area>

[Hon. W. H. Barnes.

are not la·rge enough; and the blocks have been forfeited in many instances. I have represented the matter to the Lands Depan­mcnt, which has amalgamated some of the forfeited areas with those still held, chus increasing the size of the holdings. ThE' Minister >vould be quite justified in allowing exemption from resi·dential conditions. In the case I have qlloted men have had to seek work in Brisbane and leave their wives and families on the selections. I trust that the :\Iinistcr will accept the amendment so that he will be able to exercise his discretion in regard to giving exemption from resideniiaJ conditions.

Mr. ELPHINSTONE (Orley): During the debate last night the Premier accused the Opposition with having lost sight of the main provisions of the Bill then before the House and concentrating their attention on the need for the extension of pastoral leases. The position now is that the Opposition is trying to improve this Bill, calling attention to anomalieo which exist, and trying to remedy unfair conditions which call for immediate attention .

I take it that one of the main principle" underlying this Bill is the enlargement of areas which are insuflicient to enable the

holders to make a living, to such [5.30 p.m.J an extent that they will be really

living areas and the disappointed settlers will be able to carry on. The hon. member for Carnarvon has called attention to particular cases where the areas are insufficient to enable the lessees to make a living, but where the Minister, if he cares to exercise his power, can cancel the leases so that all the work which has been done upon them may go by the board. The hon. member is asking for temporary relief until such time as the men in this position ma~­apply unrler the provisions of this Bill for additional a1·eas. but in the meantime their selections rr:ay be taken from them.

The PREMIER: They can get that relief from th,J Land Court.

Mr. ELPHINS'l'OJ\TE: Only for a tem­porary period. I take it that, if the hon. member for Carnarvon receives the assurance of the Secretarv for Public Lands that the Pxemption will "be continued until they get living aYeas, he will be satiefied.

'I'he PREMIER: This amendment is directly contrary to the other amendment in whjch the Opposition wanted to take power from the Minister and give it to the Land Conrt.

Mr. ELPHINSTONE : If we cannot get all we want, we must get the best conditions we can. The Committee has already agreed b a clause which centres the authcritv in the Minister. That being so, the Opposition are attempting to improve the clause so that 'ome ray of hope may be given to these unfortunate sele~toTs without living areas, who hope to take advantage of other pro­Yisions of the Bill. Their case seems to be one calling for immediate redress.

Mr. BELL (Fas.,ifern) : The request of the hon. member for Carnarvon is only reason­able. The Minister must know that through­out Queensland, more particularly in the more closely settled districts, men have been settled on less than living areas, and it would be rather hard for them if this Bill were to be passed, under which they could get relief, only to find that they were to be

Land Acts Amendment Bill. [U DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1749'

debarred from participating in any consi­deration allowed under this Bill. If the residence conditions are waived-and the Minister already has taken power to do so in certain other instances-he will improve the conditions of the small man throughout Queensland. At present many of them cannot make a living. I have some in my own electorate, and I suppose that in every district there are men holding land under perpetual lease conditions in the same con­dition.

Mr. EDWARDS (JYanango): The depart­ment knows that there arc many selectors on areas "hi eh are short of living areas, because n.pplications come before it again and again for increased areas. As a matter of fact, I thought the Minister was anxious to get out of the difficulties in which the Government find themselves through having, m recent years more particularly, cut up country into areas which are, too small to enable the settlers to make a living.

I wish to call the attention of the Minister to an outstanding case where the areas were badly designed and were too small. l refer to the Charlestown reserve, outside 1v1eme­rambi. He knows that practically every settler who went on that area has made appli­catiOn to him for time in which to pay his rent. I do not think that 2 per cent. of those settlers are able to meet their obligations, and what applies thcrG applies in many dis­tl·icts throughout the State. If the Minister would permit the selectors to take over two or. three blocks, he would be doing a big thmg m the mterests of land settlement in Queensland; but, if he does not accept the amendment, then it p·rovos conclusively that the argument of the Government that the Opposition "are out to help the big man is wrong. Here is an opportunity for the Government to help the small man who has been on the bread line for vears. I believe that the clamour for increased areas has caused th8 department more concern than any other phase of land administration. The amendment will enable the"e bottlers to' be placed on a much sounder basis. I pointed out during my second reading speech the case of a man who had selected 90 acres of land in my district, was unable to n1ako a living, applied for an additional arert, b11t was refused because of the adverso report of the land ranger. ~\nyone who knows anything about land settlement knows that it is ridicu­lous to expect a man to make a living on 90 acres of land suitable only for dairying. :No man can make a living on 90 aercs of land in my district. He would be on the bread line. and we do not wish to have our settlers in that position. The area I am discussing at the present time is purely a dairying pro­po,ition. I hope the Minister will accept the amendment, and enable these men to ha,-e an opportunity of increasing their areas, which will be a good thing from the point of view of the settler, the department, and the State. There arc hundreds of small selectors at present practically on the bread line bee a use they have not a sufficient area to tide them over a difficult time until the return of decent seasons.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: If thev are on the bread line, they will receive the consideration to which I have referred.

:Mr. EDW ARDS: If the selector is forced to leave his land, his farm must go to rack and ruin whilst he enters the industrial field

to earn a few pounds. vV e should give settlers a sufficient area to enable them to make homes for themselves and enjoy a com­f01·table living.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : This clause provides for an ipcrease of area.

Mr. EDW ARDS : The selectors should be given an opportunity of In~reasing· th~ir a~eas and making a decent hvmg .fO'r then· Wives and families.

Mr. DEACON (Cmmingham): \Ve can see now where the friends of the em all m en are. This amendment is moved in the intort>>ts of the verv small man, \Yhose position is very dif!icuit and who cannot get any relief. The Minister has said that he can rcc,"IVe an exemption for six months.

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC' L\xDS: I can give hin1 exmnption for tw~lvc and cve1• for eighteen months.

Mr. DEACON: What is the good of that'! \Vo have ft~rain and again seen c,1:~es '\vhere forfeiture has beon insisted on because of the non-fulfilment of residential conditions. We onlv ask that the Minister should be wsted ,~ith this power until he Cl n enlarge the areas and make them livincy areas. A grazing area in the mountains of 320 "Cl'CS,

with ,:csidential conditions imposed, is not an area on which a man could make a. living.

Mr. H~\.RTLEY: Priorit) \Yas probably given in such cases.

lHr. DEACON: If personal r<•::iLlcnce con­ditions wero imposed, it dor Eot n1attcr if they did get. priority. V/e know that these mistakes have happened not only under tbis Government bnt under previous (~ovcrn­lnents. \V c no\v \Yant the 1\Iini• ter to reincdy the.'C defects. The ?dinister is rtnitP \villing t0 aet in <·ascs where the Li~.:gPr 1nen arc con~;crned. but when we ask him to take unto himself the pov.er to dNtl with the "rmdlcr man he refusec. to do so. \Yhy should the hon. rncmber for Fitzroy have such an cdcre on the small selPctor? No n1an is m,;'re entitled to consideration or ne• c!s it InDnl than the s1nall grazing sd0e:t 11·, ,,~e have been discussing.

At 5.45 p.m., The CJL\IR3L\N resumed the chair.

:Mr. DEACON: \Yhat is the good cf grant­in er anv sdcctor an e-x:ernntion £ron1 rosiclcnco co~ditl'ons if he eannot- Jnakc a. living on his land? The Minister ructvcs to himself absolutclv discretionarv power to extend tbo leaseS ?f grazing selCctors if he so derircs, and to give them living areas; but v.-h::'n \Ve

advocah the samo treatment for tlw small fello,v-thc "corkv "-tbo Gov0rnmcnt rcfu_p,_~ to grant it and S'1Y that it vvouJcl be hrr-aking lhe law to do so.

Mr. CLAYTON (11' irle Bay) : I r• c:;r<'t that the :Minister has no intention of acceptin!" this amendment. I had ho;wd tlut the argument of hon. members on this side would hav8 conYinced him that it is in the interests of tho small man. \Vc hnvo been hdking all day in connectiDn with the gra,;ing farn1cr. but, when the Oppos1tlon bnng3 forward an amendment effecting these farmers. it seems rather stran[<; that Go­vern!nent men1bers v:ill not assist to rcrncdy an apparent injustice. I refer to the resi­dential conditions in regard to the vcr,v "mall areas. The selector cannot comply

llfr. Clayton.]

[ 750 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amendment Bill.

with those conditions bee a use the area is too restricted for him to obtain a living from it. The Minister has offered to give these selectors exemption for six months, but wo do not want settlement under those conditions. \Ve ·want to give men rea.s.on::tble conditi;ms, and, although they may. hP occupymg areas of 100 acres. they ar0 entrtled to similar consideration to 'vhat is being· given to selectors of 20,000 acres. I pro­test against the refusal of the Minister 1 n accept the amendment, because in my o:wn clPctoratc and in the electorate of the hon. 1aember for Kanango the present conditions of ·,ettlcment are merelv a survival of the fittc• .. t. The areas are so sma:I that persons cannot ,,,akc a liYing on th0m and complv with the residential clause", and thev mus't seck work elsewh0re. ·

Question-That the words proposed to be added to clause 9 {Jb. Caste/la's amend­ment) be so added-put; and tlw Committee -diYidcd :-

A "'r"E!'!, 2:!. Mr . .Appel Mr. Frv

, Barnr-s, G. P. ., Ke"Iso ., Barues, W. H. ., Kerr , Bell , King ,. Brand , Logan , Clayton ., Moore

Corser , Hoberts , Costello , Hussell, H. }f. , Deacon , Rwayne , Edwards » Tay]or ., Elphinstone ,. 'Vrirren

Tellers: Mr. Clayton and :i.lJ', C(·~tcllo.

NoEs, :11. ]fr Barber Mr. Hartley

, Bedford , Hynes ,. Bertrain •. .Tones , Brassington , K!rwan .. Rnlcf::: ,, Llewelyn , Bulcock , Lloyd

f'::trter , l\lcCormnck Collins , }f cLachlan

, Conroy , ::.Uullan , Cooper, F. A. , H iorclan

Dash , Hyan, C. J. , Dunstan .. Hyan, H. ,T. , Farrell , Hm ith ., Ferricka .. Wropford ,, Foley , ·wnson , GleUson , \Vinstanlry , Hanson ., \rright

TclJers: :\1r. Brassington a1Hl :J.Jr. Bnlcoek.

.AYE:::. ::\Ir. "\YaH·er

,. l\Taxwell , J>eter,son

PAinS.

Xo~:s.

JI1·, 1Yel'il:;.::1(111 0'1\pefe I tft'OTllbf•

Rcso1 vccl in the negatiYo.

Clause 9. as a1nended, a~:rced to. Clause 10-" Priority of application in

:.<?]Jccial C([ses "-

l\Ir. COSTELLO (Carnurro,,\: I beg to mDve the following amendment :-

" On line 8, page 10. after the word­' Act,'

i~1c::crt the \Yards-'or in any opening notification.' ~'

The SECRE'I'ARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. T. Dunctan, C!ympic): I cannot accept the arncr·dmcnt. The opening 11otiflcation Tefers only to the land opened by the noti­fication. There is priorit:~ only \vith re~·,pcct to one of the pol'tions. Tbc n1axirnum 2_rca fixed in the notification must be large enough to permit of the acquisition of any one of the portions.

Amendment (Jir. C'oste//o) rwgati1·cd.

[JI.-'11·. Clayton.

Mr. COSTELLO (Carnarwn): I beg .to move the following amendment:-

" On line 19, page 10, after the \vor·d­' Minister,'

insert the wor-ds-• or the Minister may grant permis­sion for the transfer to such lessee of any adjoining selection or holding. and in either ease may grant to th•• lessee for such period as he considers proper exemption from the condition of personal residence if applicable to his selection or holding.' "

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LAKDS (.Hon. T .. Dunstan, Gym pie): I cannot accept the amendment. The reasons I gave in opposition to the amendment moved in tlw prcvimrs clause by the hon. member for Car­nan-on apply to this amendment.

l\Ir. MOORB~ (,..1ubigny): The only reason the ::'.1inister gave against th0 previous amend­ment was that the Land Court had power to grant an exemption for six months, and that was his reasDn. for not accepting the> amendment. The clause provides that the Minister may-

" declare such vacant !an~! open for selection or lease under anv of the modes or tenures prescribed in- the principa I Act. in such areas as he de0ms fit. and mav direct that the application of the kss-oe of such contiguons or a·djaeent land ·hall have priorit;~· in respect of one of snch areas specified by the Minister.''

The amendment is onl:.- asking that the con­tiguous or adjacent land shall be exempt from the condition of personal residence.

[7 p.m.] Amendment (Jir. Caste/la) ncgal:ind. Clause 10 agreed to. Clause 11-" Conversion of ce1·tain grazing

selections to p•·eferentia/ p:tstoral ho/tlinus" -agreed to.

Clause 12-" Revir n· of eerll'in [!razing f> h'rt7'on rents "-

:Ylr. :;v100RE (Aubi(]IIJ!): I beg to moYe the following amendment:-

"On line 14, page 11. omit the \Yards­' hventy-four,'

and insert in lieu thpreof tlw words-' twenty-bvo.'"

I do not know whv the year 1924 was inserted in this clause, the first' paragraph of "·hich reads-

,; Tho ~elector of any grazing selection applied fer since the first day of July. one thousand nine hundred and twenty-four. rnav make application to the Minister in the. prescribed form at any time within six months after the commencement of this Act for a review o£ the rent fixed on such holding by the Minister."

'l'hc·re is nothing in the Act of 1924 to whic:h this provision could apply. but there was m tlrP Act of 1922.

The SECRETARY FOR PFBLIC LA"DS : This wa< tlw recommendation of the Land Settlement Ach·icory Board.

:Yir. MOORE: To go back three years" The SECRETARY FOR PFBLIC LANDS: Yes.

That is the period ,,-hen the alleged high rents are supposed to haYe been frxNl.

Land Acts Amendment Bill [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1751

:Yir. MOORE: The Land Settlement Ad vi· Bory Board in its report said-

,, As al·ready explained, the department during the past three years has been fixing, on priority selections, re!1ts ·which may now be regarde·d as too high. The selectors were compelled to pay the rents fixed, no matter how unfair they con­sidered them to be. It is therefore neces­sary th.:t these rents be reviewed.

"Other grazing blocks ha Ye also been opened and acquired at competition. VVhile a review is not so in1perative in these cases. we nevertheless think that it is desirable in order that rents may be uniform and tenants may not be unfairly burdened.

"Vve therefore recommend that on the application of the selectors, made within a speciiied ti1nc, sav three month~, all rents on grazing lands that ha.ye bet'n iixed by the ·department during the past three years be reviewed by the Land Administrative Board, and that the amended rents be made retrospective. ci.ny over-payments need not be refunded. but could be credited towards future rents."

I< this t·crm fixed because it was just before 1he drourrht that the rcappraiscmcnts were made' It has to be remembered that 1922 \vas :z Vf 2r in 1,vhich 'vool value', 'vn.ro Yerv high ar]d some of the rents were fixed on the basis of those high Yalues, and I think it would be verv unsatisfactory if we allow the opportunit.y for reappraiseffipnt in one case and not in the other. It would be inequit­able.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LAKDR (Hon. T. Dunstan, (fyrnpie) : The intention of the Bill is to carrv out the recommenda­tions of tlw Land Settlement Advisory Board after considering all the circ•.Jmstanccs. The ·board recommended that this provision should apply to all rents fixed within the past three :veo.rs. The alleged high rcntals began with tlw Tara blocks. near Barcddine. on 9th March, 1925. and subsequently the rente Is of the Arno blocb were fixed in March. April. o,d May. 1926. although they were not so high.

Hox. IV. H. BAR:\'ES (Wpnnnrn): I was hopin~ t~tat tho ::.VIini:;;tcr ·would see hi.s ·way tD a· cept the am0ndment of the Leader of the Opposition. If the Mini .. ter went int-J th2 fic;ur"'· he would probablv ftnd that eonH' Df the hic~hEr values to which reference ha-; been made Dccnr;·ed before 1924. TakE' the 1n·ico of l,.,_-ool, for in~tance, \·. hlch n1av hnxc affected nro rcntnis. The price fm: ,,-ool

1922-23 1926-27 1924··25

Per bale. £ s. rl. 22 9 11 21 13 0 33 13 10

If \VC ill·" g-oing to deal with this n1nttor 1

then we choulcl deal with it iiberallv, and allow the privileQ;c to date from 1922." · I do not kno'" whetho]· the ::\'linistcr has anv .-crY strong reason for fixing the date at 1924. ·

The SECRLI'ARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: That is as far .tlS v. ·! C':tn go.

Hox. \Y. H. BARKES: I urQ·o the Minister to reconsider the matter with a view to going a little further back. \V c arc all vcrv anxiou, to see this industry established on ;

vpry firm basic. I have much pleasure in supi1orting ihe amendment.

Mr. TAYLOR (Windsor): I hope the Ministc1· will accept the amendment. \Ve should be as liberal as we poeoibly can with those who have carried on the pastoral busi­ness in QuePnsland for so many years, an_d contributc>d very largely to our revenue. We wish those r-eople to contribute further to the reYenuo of the State. Queensland is in a proud position as a wool-procl_u~ing ,State. and I do not sec that the admimstrahon of this Bill will be detrimentally affected if the date is fixed at 1922. Hon. members on both sidec. reco·misc that we should do all we possibly ea;,_ to stabilise this industry.

Amendment (Jir. 1Woorc) negatived.

Clause '.2 agreed to. Clause 13-" ·Partnership agreements; dis­

r,": ~ion of Jlinistc1·"~

:V1r. KERR (Enoggcra): I beg to move the £o1lo\ving an1cndn1cnt:-

'' On line 10, page 12, after the ,,-ord-

' discretion,'

insl'l't the words.---' after reference of the matter to the board.' "

This clause deals with partnership agr_ec­mcnts, which are at the absolute discretiOn of the :Yiinistcr. ,_m] the object of the an\cnd­mcnt is to refer these agreements to the hoard. That scerns reasonable in view of the fact that a prcYious clause does not lay it down deunitely that th0 :Mini~ter must accept the decisions of the board. The clause """'' the JUinister-

11 " 1;1ay in his absolute ,?iscretion approve of such agreement.

The Minister must satisfy himself that the lHtrtncrship aurcement is in the interests of all parties, "and that the allocati?n of the prof1ts is proportjoned to ~he v:1nous con­tributions in the partnership, and Hot con­tJ·ary to the public interest. Most matters are referred to the board, and this is a matt"r which might also be included in that catccrorv. rrhe anu:md;nent do os not affect anv ~na"tter of policy, .and, even if the board po:·use tb1"Se partnorsh_ip agrconleJ?-ts, ~he ~vl inistcr m a v still use h1s absolute discretiOn as pro1·idod" foe in the Bill. The amend­rncnt i;) a reasonable one, and should not mec,t "·ith opposition from the 1\:Iinister.

The CH AIR:MA=": It is a moot question whether thi.', amendment is in order. It is preYiousl;.~ stated in ~his clause-

" 3.IoreovC'i', if any partnership agr~o­nwnt which has been made by the partws concerned hets boon forwarded to the Department of Public Lands for approYa! and registration) the lVIinistcr rnay ea use anv ilnf-iio·ation as he mav cleen1 neccs­sal:Y to be ~nade in the mO:ttor."

I hardlv think tho amendment is in order, but I am prcpac'Cd to allow it to go and leaYe it to the Committee to decide.

The SECRETARY FOR FGBLlC LAXD;'l (llon. T. Dunshn. G:ym.pic): This Bill pro­.-ides that the Minister may, in his discretion, require the board to investigate such matter:1 a" those referred to in this clause. There will be some cases in which he will require investigation to be rnado, while there will be other cases in which no such investigation will be nc>cessary.

Hon. T. Dunstan.]

1752 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amendment Bill.

This amendment is the outcome of the campaign in a preYiou; part of this debate to limit the powers of the Minister in some respects and to make them compulsory in others.

Mr. KING (Looan): The amendment will simply giYe greater effect to that po.rcion of the clause which has already been referred to by the Chairman. Clause 4 (4) reads-

" The board shall during the period of its cffice-

(c) Make any inquiry or investiga­tior, which tho Minister or tho board may think necessarv or expodient so to make." •

This will be a matter which thG ::Ylinister might >cry well refer to the board. The board has very full power c to obtain evi­dence, for tho Bill in that respect says-

" Every mcrnbGr thereof eh all ha vc tho :;;a1nc polvC'rs, authoritie':, and protection as a commission under t,he Official Inquiries Evidonco Act of 1910."

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLir L\::-iDS: The services of the board will be used by me to the fullest extent.

Mr. KING : Th0n I see no reason for the hon. gentleman objecting to the rrmendmcnt. It do<'' not in any way fetter the absolute discretion of the 1VIinister, as ho 1na.v over­rule whatever the board may recommend.

}1r. CORSER (!Jurnett): The :Minister noight very well accppt the amendment as a very reasonable addition to the Bill. 'We arc not asking tho hon. gentleman to give away c:.ny of his powers, but we arc insti­hih::g a system of partnership hitherto unlo10Vln in connection \Yith land settlernen

1

t. It is a new principle which has brought aboytt c~rnplicati?w~. The 2~1inistcr is pro­posmg that men m country towns and in the eik who have money may put it into these propc-ttles undPr certain conditions. V crv intricate inquiries will no doabt be required l1l some cases b;.· the Minister ancl it would he fairer to him ancl bettr.r for' the applicants if the amendment •vero included in the Bill.

The SECRETARY arc mixing up ten:u1eies.

FOR PLBLIC LA::.~DS : partnerships with

You joint

}Ir. CORSER: This is a partnership agree­ment. and the Minister muc;t bo sat'sfied-

. " (i.) rrhat such agrCf'lllCUt is in the mterosts of all parties to it;

'' (ii.) That iho allocation of the profits r.moJ_Jg each selector or lessee is pro. portJoned to his contribution to the partnership business."

The :.\Iinister has n1ade pro,~ision in clause 4 foe· the board to operate in respect of r;,ost of the pronsiOn, of the Bill, and it '-'Pnls strange to us t~1at he has not gi·rcn

any good l'C<:'cS011 ·,1 hy 1 t should not do SO in th1s case.

The SECRLTARY FOR PrBLIC I \NDS: The 1\.Iini :tcr n1ay make investigations.

]\Ir. CORSER: Fer somo re"tson or other the hon. gentleman does not propose to ~llow .the bo:;trd to n1ake any investigations m tins p;ntwular. It sec,ns curious and rnakes us so1no\vhat suspicions \vith regard to the clause. \Ye are at a. Ios, to know why . t_he ~if::ini~ter is singling ant this ono )n·ovJsJon m regard to which h(' denies the board power to make investigations. We know that tl_w e partnerships are goine: to be a blg thmg. ,and that the apvlicu tions

[Hon. T. Dunstan.

arc going to cover a very wide field. Th& :\1inister would be well adYised to accept the amendment or give some good reason why he is making an exception in this instance.

Mr. KI:-.;G (Looan): I cannot agree with the Minister's interpretation, as the amend­ment will in no way interfere with his, discretion. Clause 13 says-

" The Minister may cause any investi­gation as he may deem necessary to be made into the matter."

That does not refer to the Land Adminis­tration Board, and the Minister may make inYf;_,t.i ga tions fro!n outside source,1 alto­gether. The whole object of the appoint­ment of a Land Administration Board is to· get information and advise the Minister. It is really an zd visory board. 'l'he amend­ment is not mandatory, and I would ask the Minister to reconsider his -decision not to accept it.

Mr. KERR (Eno(f(f'"a): 1'he :Ylinister says ihat the amendment is taking power away from him, but the matter still remains in his absolute discretion. There e;.an be no harm done by referring the pa rtncrship agree­ment to the board which is to be constituted. The boa.rd will assist the Minister particularly with reference to partnership agreements. The Minister seems yery obstinate in thi> matter. Under clause 4 it is not mandatoc·v for the Mi•1istcr to accept any such agree· ment. He can give consideration to it and his decision is final. Partnership agreements .hould first be submitted to th board. The Minister cr.n haye no CT.Cusc for not accepting the amendment, because in the final analysis h' ha,, absolute discretion. After the maiter comes from the board, the Minister should then use his discretion, but not befnre. The ;\[inister is taking up an attitude quite unworthv of him. He has not been tou liberal ·so far, ancl he might e,ccept this amendment. t1s no clifficul(1· '"ill result from it.

MJ". TA YLOR (Windsor): When the pre­sent Premier was Secretary for Public Land~ certain legislation was introduced with rogarcl t;:, partnerships such as· wo are considering to·night, and it has broken down. The object of this particular legislation \Vas to prevent 111011 fro1n acting a..:: clun1n1ies and not playing the game so far as partner ,hips wore con­cerned. The Government haYc found that the legislation is acting detrin1e'1tally to the ir;tcrests of tltoc;e concerned in the industry, and it has thPrefore been wlthdra\Vll. It i.s now proposed to reinstitute it, and the :Ylinistcr has absolute di ,;,·etion as to what partnerships he will agree ~o. By the .arncndn1cnt we are s'LriYing to provide that the Minie:'cr shall rcceii'C the a;sistancc which ho 'vill r.•quire in connection \Yith this legis­lation. IIe will find that quite a number oi applications will con1c in in connoctioa 'vith thc.!se partn(~rship ag)·cements, and he, as Minister, will he unable to cope with the work. \Vo ask the Minister to extend the assistance which the beard will gin• him b~· eal1ing it In to his aid to prcYont any lnis­take being made \Yith regard to partnership agreements. \~.,. c do not want thi.:; lcrrislation to meet the same fate at the end of twelve 1nontb ~ as {;ccurrecl to the previous legislation i:1 connection with paTtnership agrcmnent"J. I trust that the :\1inist0l' will accept the :unendment as one which is going to help him and which will not weaken the BilL

Land Acts Amendment Bill. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1753

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA"'DS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gyrnpie): The sudden solicitude on the part of the Opposition for the Minister is rather suspicious. (Laugh­ter.) The clause reads-

" If the Minister is satisfied-(i.) That such agreement is in the

interests of all the parties to it; (ii.) That the allocation of the profits

among each selector or lessee is pro­portioned to his contribution to the partnership business, whdhcr of lease· hold land, capital, or labour;

(iii.) 'I'hat generally such agreement is not contrary to the public interest,

he may, in his absolute discretion, approve of such agreement."

I can assure the Committee that the machinery of the Land Administration Board will be utilised to the fullest possible L·xtent, nevertheless that should not inter-

fere with the exercise of the [7.30 p.m.] Minister's discretion. It is a , , very nece .,ary power for him to

Lave, and. there-fore, I cannot accept the amend1nent.

::\Ir. DEACO~ (Cunningham): I cannot nrdcrstand the Minister's remark about our sudden consideration for him. We have a lot of consideration for him and the depart· rnont; but even if wo had none for him or his departrncnt, \Vn haYc consideration for the settler. The Minister will not lose anything by acc<'pting the amenrhncnt. It scenl' that he is afraid lest >vc should take the lc'"st bit of his power from him, but th1::: ;une:ndrnC'nt would Pot take n, f,hrcd oE ii. awnv. The l\iinist0r can be nothing else than the head of the department, but it is not pocsiblo for him (o investiga tc every little d<>tail himself. He n1.ust rc1ncmbcr. ho-.,vcvcr, that in the future he will h;we to take all thn blame. Ho doe"" not do that no'.':--he puh it on to the departmental rules or the law"-but in the future we shall know >vho is to blame if am·thiL: goes Wl'Nl''. He '"Jmot have it both '"vavs. Ho c'amot tltko all the work and a.ll tho power without the blame. and from now on wo shall be able to hold him respomiblo f<)r anv muddle nw t occurs in anv part of Queendand. The 1 rouble will be his; he is looking for it. Tho amendment will snvo him so•Iw work and mak0 some use of the board. ·what is the good of having the board if we do not. make 'omc use of it? It is most difficul.t to under­stand the reaconing of hon. mcmll"rs oppo­sit<• at any timf'. bnt in this matter they ~cen1 to be g·cttin\~" \\. o1·se than e,~cr.

1\Ir. G. P. BAR"'ES (1Fo1'1ric7.·): It cannot be suppo.:;cd fay or:p 1non1ent th:J_t th0 1Iinis­ter will bn able to ll!l<:erta ke all th' work wh~ch ·will fall upon hlrn in his dcjlartm~nt. T·wo heads are better than one. and three n.r1 b(;ttC>r still; thcre._'forc h~ shoulfl accept the am0nrlment. It frcqne·1tly hap)Wns in any dcpDrb1cnt. mor0oveJ', that the l\1ini--ter is cnva;1 and a deputy has to act for him. That deputy cannot poe.sibly be in tonch with v;hat has be0n engaging the I·1inistcr's atiention for some considerable time, and <>wrvbody will admit the aclYantagc of having the board to fall back Uj10n for inforrnation. This is not an imaginary difficulty. It is a thi10g which mmt happen. It constantly happens. Hence thA wisdom of accepting the amendment must be apparent to everybody.

Mr. LOGAN (Lockyer) : This amendment is moved by the Opposition with a view to

making the Bill one that will be whole­heartedly acceptable to the country, and I cannot understand why the Minister is not prepared to accept it.

Mr. EDWARDS (;¥anago): The Minister has stated that full use will be made of the Land Administration Board, and I hope that he will reconsider his decision and allow this very important question to be submitted to that tribunal. I hope that he will not con­tinue his determined attitude not to accept the amendment.

Mr. CLAYTON (Wide Bay): I hope the .Minister will accept the amendment, which merely states that in his decision he shall have the guidance of the Land Administration Board.

:VIr. McLACHLA::\f (.Ylerth11r): It seems to me that the Opposition are really stonewalling the Bill. The Minister has already given a full explanation of this clause dealing with pai·tnership agreements. He explained that in the exercise of his discretion he may refer the matter to the board for investigation, but now the Opposition require him to do something else before exercising that dis­cretion. It seems to me that the amendment is ridiculous.

Mr. KERR (Enoggcrn): The hon. member for Merthvr evidentlv does not understand the amendment. I( the Government are anxious to close the session, then they can be m a tcrially assisted by the Minister accepting this very reasonable amendment. Members of the Opposition have a knowledge of this Bill that is equal to that of members of the Government party.

Partnerships in connection >Yith land scttle­nrcnt are arnong the most irnportant feature,-, of tho Bill. The Government are depending upon partnerships to make a success of their closer settlement scheme. Provision is made in the case of partnerships for only one ~f i.he partners to carry out the personal rcsr~ donee conditions. If there is am· dissatisfac­tion in resjwct of partnerships, then it is only ri,-ht that the matter should be submitted to tl]~ Land Administration Board. The 1fin­istcr has a subsequent absolute dis{''retion. The l:oard is constituted to assist the Minister to E'Xcrcise his discretionarv power. 'rhe powers of the board arc clef1.rl:-· set out in clause 4. Partnerships are such important matters that thev should be su0mittcd to the board under anv "circumstances. The Ministf~,r overlooks the {act thrrt the amendment calls upon him to cxercic·o his discretionary and not mandatory powers. Our sole ambition is to improve the Bill.

The CHAIR:YlA~ : Order ! The hon. mem­ber has exhausted the time allowed him under the St:wding Orders.

Amendment (.111·. E err) ncgdiycd. Clause 13 agreed to. Clause 14-" Development of difficult

rountry "-

Mr. BELL (Fassifr.Tn) : I beg to move the follo"·ing ·amendment :-

"On line 30, page 12. after the ''·ord­' cattle,"

insert the words-' has or.'"

Part IV. of the Bill. including clauses 14. 15. and 16, deals with the question of applica­tions for extension of leases for the develop­ment of difficult countrv. 'rhe insertion of the words suggcc·.ted w{)] give the Minister

JJJr. Bell.]

1754 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amendment Bill.

discretiona•ry power to grant such an exten­sion of lease for work carried out in the past in difficult country in order to assist him to carry out further improvements.

Clans l 14 deals with the extension of pastoral holding·s on < 0rtain conditions, and the development of difficult country many miles from a railwav where it C,Qsts a great deal of money to p~1t down water improve­n1cnt3, erect '\Yire-netting fences, and so forth. It is a very difficult thing to esti­mate what will require to be spent to secure >vater. M v experience of boring is that in the Central-western areas you very often have failures, and possibly you might strike water which is not suitable for stock. On ono small area in the Central district we struck \vater ns salt as the sen water, which v. aR useless for stock. The cost of that bore was wasted, so it is difficult to <•stimate the amount of money required. This amend­ment will leave it to the discretion of the i>finister to sav whether he will also take into consid('ration vvhat has already bee11 spent by the lessee. <

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \Vom:s : You object<'d previously to the :Minister using his discrchon.

Mr. BELL : If bv an extension of those powers we are gain~ to better this Bill, wu are only too pleased to grant those extra powers. This principle is aeknowledgecl with reference to sheep holdings, in clause 15, which reads-

'" The provisions of the aboYo section may bo cxtencled, with or without such modifications as may be prescribed, to permit of any selcct{)r of a grazing selec­tion or the le& .,,e of a pastoral holding who desires to me his selection or hold­ing for stud sheep purposes, and who may havo incurred or needs to incur heavy or abnormal expenditure in corl­nection therewith, applying to the ]\linister for the extension of the afore­said provisions to hh11 in respect to the whole or part of his selection or holding."

I notice that the 1'l:inister has an amendment to extend that principle to cattle holding.; as well, r.nd the amendment is only c·donding that principle. Many people ham incurred heavy expenditure awl hm-e now lost their stock, and they will wa.nt an increased tenure to secure finance to enable them to i1nprovo their rountry in order to n1ake tho ~ountry suitable for ~heep. This country IS some clisLtnce front the railway so it \vill not be required for closer ·ottlcment rur­poses. r11his is a right that the lessees Hlf1Y

rightly expect. I would recommend th'0 amendment to the serious consideration of the :!\iinistc;r, as the hon. gentleman ~c10uld certainly have this discretion.

The REC'RETARY FOR PUBLIC LA:'\DS (Hon. T. Jlunstan. Gympir\: I cannot accept the en_· ndmcnt. because it would make the clause ntrospcctiYe in character, and is not in accordance with the recommendations of the Land Settlement Advisory Board. Paragrrcph 98. on page 39, of the" report of the board reads-

" .f~ummari8in,g the rertnircments of the positJOn, recommond--

(1) That it be one of the clutie., of tlw Land Administration Board to-

. (a) Classify grazing lands accord­JJ1g to their state of development and potentialities:

[Jlr. Bell.

(b) Inquire into que tions as to the development of grazing lands on which an abnormal expenditure i, required, whether for water improYe­ment,, ringbarking, clog-netting. establishing a stud, or other purpose. (2) That, except in the case of any

stud developmental proposition, the g;·anting of concessions be limited to­

(a) Inferior lands that arc unsuit­able for subdivision in their present condition; or

(b) Lands that require an ltbnormal expenditure of capital for their dcvelopn1ent.''

The exception in regard to encouraging the breeding of stud stock is a specific recom­mendation. as it will be of advantage to the wool industry over the whole of the State.

1Ir. MOORE (Auuiyny): I cannot sec that the Minister has put up any case at all. This is a case where a man want, to turn his {'attic property into a sheep proposition. One of the main factors to be looked at. according to the Premi•.r. is the advisability of extending the sheep industry to country

hich to-day is carrying cattle. An cnormom expenditure is going to be required to turn these cattle properties into sheep propositions. Thc·ic cattle properties do not come in for special consideration under this clause, as rt does not apply to land already taken up. ar:d thcv are to be debarr0d from r;n exten­sion of 'lease which would cna!Jk them to secure finance so as to change their cattle properties into sheep properties. \V c are rnaking the nroviRion rctrospccti \7C with regard to the 'breeding of stud sheep, and lhat is going to be for the benefit of Queens· le.nd. This proposal is also going to be for the benefit of Queensland, because it is going to o::tend our area of sheep country and make it poHible for those who arc not at pr-c··ent carrying sheep to be able to do so, and thus extend the production of wool. .\ man who holds land ;vhich is difficult to develop n1ay surrend(?r his lease and get anothcl' in placo of it. This clause makes proYision for the development of diflieult country which is distant from railway com­munication, and on which the expenditure for the purpose of pro,-iding water is going to bo hea.-y. The country has something to gain if a man who has taken up this counl-ry and has a1rcad., spent a con,:.;iderable t-'Hnl of Inane:;- on it~ on placing his case before the ~finister, can obtnin f'Ome cJncession in the "av of an extension of lease to onablo hin1 to~ obtain financial a~-:ist;1,ncc.

rs p.nl.]

It is n. reasonable aincnd1nent. and there , is nothing in it for the Minister· to uwil at. Lndf'r the clause a 1nan 1::Jay say, "I a1n prepared to take up a block cf land which it is difficult to develop. but I want io know exactly -what C'o:nditions I am going to get. because it is gojng to cost n1e a lot of money to improve it. I v:ant to know, for instance. whether I am going to got a forty yea,rs' lc~so or a (i,cd rent before I decide whether it is worth spending- £100,000 on iL" The case the hon. member for Fassiforn wishes tD provide is the case of the man who saYs, " I am already on a block, and I am pre­pared to spend a great deal more to improve the carrying capacit:·, provided I can get a tenure."

Mr, BRUCE: An extension? It tvould apply to every &tation in Queensland.

LwuJ Acts A:ne cJment Bill. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1755

:\h. MOO RE: It would apply only· to '(·ount.ry n long way frorn the railway, where ··water is hard to ge~ and a lot of money; is nccesRary for the purpose of dog-netting and so on. In any case, the Minister need not grant the application. The applicant would place his case before the Minister. and, if the Minister <'Onsidered that he had put up a good case, that he had spent a con­siderable amount, and bv spending more he c-ould make the bl<Jck more productive, then he could grant certain extensions.

The f'lECRET.\RY FOil PcBLIC LA!';DS inter­jected.

l\lr. :\100RE: I cannot read into the dausc what the Minister says is there. I think it applies only to country t<J be taken up in th<:> future. If the Minister savs that it can inelude country taken up in tlie past there is, of course. no occasion for the atncndn1ent.

::Yir. CORSER (Bw·nctt): The amPndment is a most reasonable one. The j\IIinister claims that it is not right to make it retro­:-:.pectiYf~ or to giye concessions to men who haye already >pent money. He has already recognisr:d tlH: rrinciplo of conce~sions to 'heep-breeders who have developed stud flocb. anc: this case is Dn all-fours with that. Perhaps a man has made his countrv first-clas~ <'ountrv wirh a short lease and he \.Ya!ltR an ex'tension or a concE:ssion to enable him to get a return for his expendi­ture. That can onh· be done bv a conces­sion in thE' shape of an exten:;ion of lease in recognition of \Yhat he has d<Jne in the past.

No l!C\Y J'l'inciplc is inYolvcd in the ainend­ment. The ::\Iinicter must agTee that th,"• 1 Jrincip lr• i~ recogn ist·d in other portions of the Bill. The Prickly-pear Land Act recog­nises th0 enterprise of a man who has been "bl~ to keep his property cl Par of pear, and he' 1s rPwardcd by an extension of lease. In <·onnection with grazing- counb'y, prcbablv a man has put down bores. netted the property. felled r cmb, and perhaps accomplished other "Works entitling him to that reward to which i bo Lan(~ Rettlonwnt Advisorv Board has '"tated he is entitled. The findings of the l''"ard ;>,b,olutely confirm the objective of the "'m<'ndmt'nt. The report states-

" Cood land and indifferq1t land, alike. arP ~(1 ased for the same term of years, snbj0ct to the ~amo reassessment periods, the .sarno resumption right. and the same genentl sv"',ten1 of la1-v. There arc no Srh_•ci::l <'ollcessions. no discrirnination-in a. ·wo:nL no encouragen1ent to improve indiffc ,-ent country unde1· grazing tenures. Is it ·'""Y wonder that second-class countrv has not been extensivC'ly irrq;roYed ?" ~

1r fnrthcr 'tatcs---" For rnanv veurs now lar::e areas of

second-class 'lat>ds haYe bee;, awaiting devclopuent. T.Jnless we alter our svstem and apply business methods these 'lands will be in the samc gcnnal condition m fift:,- years' time. But if we deal with the matter now the State may, within a few .vf'ars. co-mmence to enjoy the many bcndits which increased production brin£"~.·,

The Sta1P will benefit from this enterprise y, Lich the board m·g·e,. should be encouraged and for which the Bill makes proyision. Probably an individual has taken up cattle

·ceountr:y, bllt by his energy in clearing timber. _provH3H1f" \Yater, ringbarking, constructing

dips. and m·ercoming transpm·t difficulties. he has been e"ble to convert the country to sheep country: but this heavy expenditure render" it nece'"ary for him to have a much longer lease. The report further state'-

" Although the quality of both sheep and cattle has been much improved, thf' carrying capacity of the State has not been materially increased during the past thirtv-five '7C.ars.''

The ent~rprise" of individuals who have been prepared to expend money in the pastoral industry should b8 recognised in the Bill. The report further states-

" Large tracts of second-class country, on the other hand, are still to be found almost in a state of 1'\ature with little or no improvements.''

It is to-day lying in a state of Nature, and the State has no return. We are appealing· that those who have conYerted that land into first-class country should get the privileges that will be conferred on those who will carrv out theso improvements in the future. This pTovi"ion has br0n expected by the graziers for t\1 clve months, and many of them ha Ye expended money on improvements in the hope of reward. They now find that no con­cession will be giYcn to them because they spent their mono:;· in 1927 instead of in 1928. The position is ridiculous. The :Minister exercises full control oYer most of the pro­visions of the Bill, but this is a clause where the Governor in Council is to exercise control of concessions. I cannot understand the Min­ister rpfusing to accept the aincndrncnt, but I t'l·ust that he will still do so, so that those who have expended money in improvPments will participate in the concession.

Amendment (Mr. Bell) negative·d. Mr. BELL (l'.rtssifcrn): .I would like to hear

some explanation from the :Minister as to the meaning of subclause 3 (b), which reads­

'' Upon receipt of such application tlw :Ministr;r shall im'estigate-

(b) The monetary yaJue of the conces-sions sought by the applicant.' "

If the Governor in Council is to make the conces,ion, why should the Minister assess its monetary value? The monetary value of any extended lease will onlv be disclosed when the lessee endeavours tO secure an adYance horn a financial institution. I cannot sc·c how the clause will help either the depart­ment or the Je,gees.

I beg to move the following amendment : -~ "After line 53, page 13, insert the fol­

lowing new paragraph:-' (b) A priority right to a nc\Y lease

of a specified area of the hoiding for a specifted term upon the expiry of his lease;' "

It is important that the :Minister should haYe this po-.,·cr, because undc·r the clause the Min­ister has pov\Ter only to deal with a lease as a whole.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC LANDS : H vou grant that power, you may be yery sOrry afterwards.

:\1r. BELL: The Minister may say to the les"ee : " The area you are applying for i,; too large, but I will gin' you half of it." It is entirelv at the discretion of the Minister. How he Is going to decide these questions I do not know, but I do know that the Secre­tary for Public Lands is going to be th~~

llir. Bell.]

1756 Land Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.} Limd Acts Amendm.:nt Bill.

busiest Minister in Queensland in the future. 'l'he Minister should regard these matters in a broad, generous light, because in the past land settlement has not been encouraged as it might have been. 'l'he Minister has in his hands the responsibility. of settling the _lands of this State. He certamly has the advice of his officers, and it is suggested that the new board which is to be created will be composed very largely of these officers. Already a large area of Queensland has been taken out of the cont,rol of the department. 'l'he Prickly-pear Land Commiesion ha.s under its jurisdiction a very large area of Queens­land, and this Bill is also going to take away from the administration of the departmental officers another very large area and place it under the Minister's control. Undoubtedly he will depend on his officers fnr advice in these matters as he has done in the past, but he must agi:ec that this further power is neccssarv. To a lessee who has too large an area for· a living area the Minister could say: " \Vhile I consider this area is capable of being cut into smaller blocks, I have no power to grant you an Pxtension for any portion of it; I have the right to give you a lease for the whole of it." If he accepts the amendment it will giye him power to grant such an applicant half the area, and half a loaf is better than no bread.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. 'I'. Dunstan, Gympie): I c~nnot accept the amendment, as it is altogether too wide and far-reaching. It really means that the 3.1linistcr would haYe power to state what the priority right of the lessee will be in t,"·enty years' time or longer. Obviously that might react very adversely to the mterests of the State.

:\Ir. l\lOORE ( . .J.ubiuny): 'l'ho 71finister doe:; not mind giving- an extension of ~hf~ whole holding for a term not excet•dmg twcntv vear.s · but this arnendn1ent onl;y propoSc3 ~ to dive hin1 the po\•.-er ~o give priority over a portion of the holdmg. A rnan has his present term to go on, and he can still go to tho Minister and ask for an t•xtonsion of twenty y~;ars for th; whole holding. 'l'ho hon. member for l< ass1fern suggest·, that he should haYe a prioeity right ovc1· a portion of it. if the Ministe1· considers it wise. If the l\finistc1~ says, '' I an1 not going to gi\Te you an extension of lease for twenty years for tho whob holding·, but I o m prepared to gin• you a prioritv right over a portion o£ it," -• n1an \Vould know where he stood. What the hon. mem­ber for _Fa- -.;if ern asks is that the :Vlinister -will give a 1nan a priority right over a portion of the holding when his lease t xpire .. It is only a reasonable suggestion. There are three alternatives, naniCly-

(a) An extension of the loo e of tlw holding for a ierm not exceeding hn~nty yc:J.rs;

(1;) "\ Jetermination of the rent for the remainder of th<cJ term; and

(r) Provision that any resumption rights under section 146 of the Principal Act shall not be cx<e.rciscd during the cuncncy of the term of the origi­nal lease. Ol' of the extended lease, or during any specified shorter period.

VIe want to put in a fourth alternative to enable i:hc :Minister to say, " I will not give you an extension fol' the whole property, but I am prepared to give you a priority

[JJ1r. Bell.

lease: provided you c<Irry out the stipulations and conditions which I require." I do not think the Minister is giving away anythinrr by accepting the amendment. He is placing himself in a better position, because, if he considers one area is too big and the holder is not justified in getting the extension cf the whole area, he can gh·e him an exten­sion of lease for a, portion of the area.

Mr. DEACON (Cunningham): We arc only asking the Minister to grant a reawnable concession on account of the difficult nature of the country which a man occupies.

'l'he SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC L<XDS: You are asking me to grant a priority right for~ a twenty years' lease.

[8.30 p.m.] \Ve are only asking that a pronsron shall

be inserted in the Bill to enable the Ministe1:,.. if he chooses, to offl'r this concession. He need not do so. He may offer any one of tho three alternatives a !ready provided in tho clause or !he one which we propose. He is the deciding authority.

Mr. TAYLOR (Windsor): It is -diff~cult enough to develop any kind of country, e'pecially in some areas in the Central dis­trict; but it is absolutely unreasonable to expect a man to spend an enormous arnount of money on really difficult country unless h•J has the backing of the Go,-crnmcnt. All that the amendment asks is that he mav have a priority right to a new lease for a specified area of his holding fo1• a specified term~not necessarily for twenty y£ars. ::Vlen do not go on these blocks or into buoinrss fo1· ten. fifteen, or twenty years only. 'l'hey hope to, remain th<:>ro for their lives, and perhaps that their families will come after them. What does the Land Settlement Advisory Board say on this qucdtion? ~

" The drought accentuates this problem of expiring leases. It is a, problem that has long been present in land admini·•tra­tion. An cxpjring lease is at all times. economically unsatisfactory to tho indi~ vidual and to the State. \Vhe!J the lea'e has only a few years to rnn the lessee­naturally wonders what is to be his fat:.• on the expiration of the term. \Vill he succeed in getdng the whole an'a back in tho exe-rcise of his priority right'! Will the block be subcli,-idecl, and if so. into what areas? Hm1· will the department cleal with the matter of rents"? These ancl like questions begin to concern the tenanL

'"' But there is no way of getting a decision on these points, a~ the depart­ment eduses to consider them till tho Tease has almost expired. 'l'ltc lessee is thus left in a tantalizirtg1y uncertain position.. How is he to rcgulah• his busi­ness? J f new in1proYe1ncnts are required or old improYemenb need renewal the work must be postpcned till he knows where he stands. Thus is damage done to the indiYidual, thP land, and the State.

" Bad as this position may be ordinarily, it is ruinous to the tenant when he is overtaken by a drought in the concluding years of his tenancy. Not only does the shmt term of his lease giv0 him no time for reroYery, but the leasP itself is of little value as a security for fmancc. This matter of expiring leases. therefor,J, requires immediate attention."

Surely the Minister is prepared to take some notice of that! He ought to knmY that, whei~

L~nd Acts Amendment BilZ. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1757

:a lea,:-e is expiring. a n1an \vill not spend more than he is absolutely compelled to spend unless ho knows what is going to be his fate at the end of the term of his lease. 'I he men do not go- out into the \Vestern country for five or ten years. Probably some of them have been thirty, forty, or fifty years in the \Vest, and to encourage them to carry on in .the pastoral industry we must give them a .tenure that will a·.sure thorn of some return Jor the capital and labour employed; there­foro the amendment should be accepted.

Mr. HARTLEY (Fitzroy): The impression ·to be gained from the speeches of hon. mem­bers opposite is that the department has for rhe past twenty years l;lawked its cattle or sheep land round the country endeavouring to induce people to select it. Everyone knows that the exact opposite is tho case, and that ·all the available sheep or cattle country has .been rushed, hundreds of applicants apply­ing in every1 ballot, and it is a very ·difficult matter to obtain country at the present time. I am not obsessed with the repo·rt of the board, which report may be founded on the purest farcical dope that could oYer be produced. We have not seen that evidence, but it is on such evidence that these reconnnendations arc made-secret evidence · that may be worthless-and hon. mem­bers opposite are indignant because the Government are not foolish enough to ;;wallow the whole of the recommendations. I have not bothered about the report because I have no knowledge of the data on which tho recommendations are based. If the people engaged in cattle or sheep raising arc not satisfied with this Bill, then the sooner they get out of Quecmland the better. In my opinion, the Bill is far too generous in it; terms and concessions, and here is an attempt by hon. members opposite to add an additional concession in connection with the ·exercising of priority rights.

0PPOSITIO~ MEMBERS: No. Mr. HARTLEY: The clause says-

" The lessee of any pastoral holding . . . the deYelopment of which will

cost an abnormally high sum . . . . may at any time apply to the Minister in the pn 'cribed fo·rm for special conces­sions in respect of such holding . "

8ubclause (5) reads-. . . . . the :M.inistcr may, i:n con­

sideratiOn of the selector or lessee under­taking to complete within a specified time cortain specified improvcmente or develop­ment works as aforesaid. decide that the selector or lessee shall be granted any or all of the following concessions :-

(a) An extension of the lease of the holding for a te-rm not exceeding twenty years."

'Thon we have the amendment under discus­sion, reading-

" (b) A priority right to a new lease of a specified area of the holding for a specified term upon the expiry of his lease."

Already there are three big concBssions. In addition the hon. member wants to

insert this amendment so that the lessee can make an additional claim. It does not sa.v that the Minister will grant it, but the ]esse-;, would have the right to claim it in addition to a twenty years' extension of lease.

Mr. MooRE: The amendment deals with a priority right for a. portion of the lease.

Mr. I-IARTLEY: "A specified area of the holding " ma.y be the whole area. If the Opposition arc enunciating the views of the pastoralists and big grazing men, then I do not belim-e the majo·rity will tha.nk them for the advocacy because I believe they are not their views. Very few of them would claim such a tremendous concession. The clause itself is sound a.nd generous, a.nd the Minister is wise in refusing to open the door to such a big give-away of State lands as proposed under the amendment.

Mr. KERR (Enoggera): The hon. member for Fitzroy has rea.d something into the amendment which does not exist. This clause deals with the development of difficult country for which certain concessions a·re offered, and the amendment is an altorna.tive onlv. The amendment does not mean a con­tinuation of the lea.se after it has been extended for a period not exceeding twenty year c. The lessee may not desire to carry on with the whole area, and tho Minister may not be willing to grant it to him. He may want as an alternative a certain portion of the lease. At the end of twenty yea.rs he mav not desi'l·e an extension of the whole lease, but may be willing to a.ccept priority for a specified area..

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : The amendment fixes a priority right \Yith respect to something which may occur twenty years hence.

Mr. KERR: Nothing of the kind. For the development of certain difficult country the Governor in Council may do either one of three things. The first is grant an extension of lease for twenty years. We propose m> ,an alternative that the lessee shall be given a priority right for a specified area. The con­tention o.f the hon. member for Fitzroy is too ridiculous for words. A lessee might be satis­fied with a promise of a twenty years' exten­sion of lea.sc, but the position might. a.·rise that neither the lessee nor the Mmister desires a. twenty years' extension of lease. The Minister may want to reduce the a.rca. and under the amendment then the lessee would ha>e a priority right for a. specified a rea. It is for the Governor in Council to say what the specified area will be.

Mr. HARTLEV: Put the words " or in the alternative" before the amendment and see how it rea.ds.

Mr. KERR : There is no objection to that at all. It seems to me that it is a very reasonable amendment, and the Minister will be wise in accepting it.

The SErRETARY FOR PuBLIC LANDS: You ca.nnot read your own amendment.

Nlr·: KEHR: It is as clear as it is possible to make it. It appears to me tha.t the Minister is evidentlv submitting these amend­ments to a round:table conference, and is una.blo for some reason or other to accept reasona.ble a-mendments.

Mr. I-LmTLEY: I think the Minister ought to withdraw the Bill after that.

Mr. KERR: You ask him to withdraw it. This is a verv serious matter, because it deals with the q~uestion of settling diflicult count.ry in the future. In the ea.rly days leases of large areas wore given to the pioneers to enable them to develop the country. \Ye la.y it down in rcga.rd to difficult countrv that the lessee should have an oppo-rtunity of getting a twent.v years' extension of his lease, and, if the Go.-ernor

Mr. Kerr.]

1758 Land Acts Anwndmcnt Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Land Acts Amewlment Bill.

in Council does not agree with that, then we wish to make it possible for the lessee to receive an extension of lease for a specified area. That is an alternative.

11r. DELL (P'assifern): I am quite agree­able to add at the beginning of the amend­ment the word " Or." It is only meant as an alternatiYe in special cases. Every­thing is left to the discretion of the Minister, and where he considers the area too big for a living area this will givo him power to grant a lease of a portion of the area. If the Minister is prepared to accept my sug­gestion, I will move to insert the word " Or " before the amendment.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : I can­Ilot accept that. Clause 16 provides for all that you require.

Mr. BELL : I consider the amendment a Yery reasonable one. This applies only to back countrv, and it will give the Minister power to g'rant an extension of lease for a portion of the holding if considered advis­able.

Amendment (Jfr. Bell) negatived. Clause 14 agreed to. Clause 15-" Extension of section to con-.

tcssions for stud sheep holdings "-

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (l-Ion. T. Dunstan, Gpm.pie): I beg to move the following amendment:-

" On line 9, page 15, after the word­' 8hccp,'

insert the words--' or stud cattle.' "

This will widen the scope of ihe clause and enable this concession to he given. I think the amcnJment will be acceptable.

Amendment agreed to. On the motion of the SECRETARY FOR

Pl:BLIC LANDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Oympie), a similar amendment was made on line 27.

~Ir. DEACO::\ (Cum:inghanz): I beg to n1ove tho follo-\ving an1endnu)nt:-

·'On linos 29 and 30, page 15, omit the words-

' and the price at Yvhich such stud sheep will be sold.' "

It is irnpo,,iblc for any stockbreeder to say the price at which he is going to sell stud sheep or any other stud animal-it depends on quality. · A breedm· must get the best price he can. Ho does not know beforehand what he is going to sell his sheep at; it all depends on the amount of competition. He mav think thev will fetch a certain price. If they arc worth more, he veil! get more.

The C.:HAIRMAN: I will pnt the amend­mf'nt in this form-

.. The <JLH:,tion is that the words-' and the price at which such stud sheep'

stand part of the clause.' " I shall not put the balance of the amend­ment, because that would prevent the ::\Iinister from moving his consequential a1nendrnent on line 30.

[9 p.m.]

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gympie): The words as thee: stand serve a useful purpose. Hon. members will see by looking at the clause that this is only one of tho things to which

[Jfr. Kcrr

the Minister may give consideration. llon .. members opposite would be errually justified in objecting to the provision that. thE·· JWinister ma.v consider the number of stud sheep that have been or will be antilable for sale to graziers.

Mr. MooRE: \V e do not bother about that. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS:

After all, the graziers-the people to whom the stud sheep will be valuable-·are worthy of consideration as well a.s the owner of the stud sheep. I am quite willing to accept the insertion of the word " approximate " before the word " price."

Mr. TA YLOR (lFind.<or): Doe' the para­graph mean that the Minister is going to· fix the price of stud sheep?

The SECRETARY l'OR PUBLIC LAl>iDS: :\o.

Mr. TAYLOR: I do non think it cloes. The Minister simply considers cm·tain matters, including the revenue which the studmaster is getting fol· his sheep.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : The Minister merely requires the applicant to state how many sheep he will be able to breed and the price at w hi eh he will be able to s~ll them.

Mr. DEACON (Cunningharn): Xobody can say what his sheep are worth until he ha:; bred them. It all depends on their quality and the market.

The SEC'RE'rARY fOR PUBLIC L.\XDS: The stud sheep breeder will be able to sa" whether he can put forv, ard a busine'S propo,ition to the Government or not.

Mr. DEACON: He may sav that he can sell them for three guineas, 'and when he breeds them they may be worth ten guineas or hundreds of guineas.

Mr. SWAYNE (Jlirani): It i' impossible for a man when founding a stud to say what his sheep will be worth in three 'ears' time •. Certainly, if there was any attc,.;;pt to limit prices, enterprise would be discouraged. Under these circnmstances people would not spend considerable sums of moncv on the purchase of sires and dams. It secrns that the pric:' will ha.Ye to be stipulat0cl when the applic.ation is made, and, if the price is too h1gh, does 1t mean that the :>.Iinister will not accept the proposition?

Mr. EDWARDS (.Tanango): The Minister must recognise that some stud farms involv­ing a considerable amount of c;;.pital and brains might produce stud rams \Vorth up to :£3,000. Surely the Minister is not going to ms1st on the owner of such animals specifying the price at which he will sell his stud sheep !

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC LAXDS : The Dill deals with flock rams, and not with fancy rams.

~.ir. EDWARDS: How can the Minist~r ''"Y what rams are to be flock rams 9 Those words kill the very object of the clause. Tl1e studmaster should be able to dispose of his flock on the very best market.

The PRE;IfiER: He will be asked to give a general idea of what he proposes to do. One man may aim at breeding lOO-guinea rams, and another at breeding 10-guinea rams, and it would ·require more country for the breed­ing of lOO-guinea rams.

Mr. EDWARDS: The Minister stated that he would have to lav down definitelv the price at which he Ymuld sell these rams to graziers.

Land Acts Amendment Bill. [14 DECEMBER.] Land Acts Amendment Bill. 1759

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : I said nothing of the sort.

The PREMIER : Before we give him a long lease we require to know what he proposes to do.

::Ylr. EDWARDS: If we are to have Yerv g·ood settlers, then we must give them free­dom of action.

Amendment (Mr. Deacon) negatived.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA:0iDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gympie): I beg to move 1he following amendment:-

•· On line 30, page 15, after the word­' sheep,'

insert the words·-' or stud cattle.' "

Amendment agreed to. Clause 15, as amended, agreed to with

further consequential amendments in lines 31 and 36.

Cl a uses 16 to 25, both inclusive, agreed to. Clause 26-" Rights to select by late lessee

of pastoral holding or grazing selection­priority >·ights "-

The SECHETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS !Hon. T. Dunstan, Gympie): I beg to move the following amendment :-

··On line 4, page 20, omit the words­• by two or n'lore,'

and insert in lieu thereof the words-' by more than two.' "

At present one individual or two persons as joint tenants may exercise a priority right under section 72. This amendment provides that such priority right may be exercised by more than two.

Amendment agreed to.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA:'\DS lllon. T. Dunstan, Gpmpie) : l beg to move the followiug amendment:-

'· On line 14, page 20, after the word­' }'linistcr,"

insert the words-' Provided further that nothing in the last preceding proviso shall be con­,trued to permit of the exercise of snch right of priority by each of such late lessees sepwrately, but the exer­cise of such right of priority by such late lessee" shall be permitted to be exercised by such late le53ees jointly with respect to one selection.' "

During the second reading of the Bill I pointed out that where there wore a number of lessees holding priority rights in one lease they would be able to exercise that priority right severally, but only with regard to the one selection. This provision is inserted to make the provision quite clear.

Amendment agreed to. Clause 26, as amended, agreed to.

Mr. CORSER (Burnett): I beg to move the insertion of the following new clause to follow clause 26:-

" [26A.] After section one hundred and tn·cnty-cight of the principal Act the following proviso is added:-

.'Provided that at any time during '!X months from the commencement of a period for which the rent of anv holding is to be detcrmincd by the eourt, the :Minister or the lessee may,

bv notice in writing to the Registrar of the Court, lWJuire that the. rent for such period shall be dctermwed not later than twelve months from the date of receipt of such notice; and in the event of such notice not being given as aforesaid if notice is given, in the event of the r~nt not being so determined, the rent of the holding shall not oo increased, but may be reduced when such determination is made.'

Section 123 of the principal Act deals with rent to be paid pending reassessment, ancl it reads-

" When by this Act it is provided that the rent of any holding is to be deter­mined by the Court, the lessee shall, until it is determined, continue to pay the same amount of annual rent as there­tofore; and whcn the amount of rimt. is determined by the Court, the lessee shall pav anv arrears of rent found due bv him· at the rate so determined, so· as to adjust the balance due to the Crown; and any excess of payment b:v the lessee shall be credited ID him jn payment of rent which may subsequently become due in respect of the holding. or, at his request, be refunded to him."

There is no provision in the Bill to provide that the Court shall at any time deal with this particular adjustment of rentals.

The CHAIR::VIAN : Order ! I have to mle the amendment out of order as it pro­Yidcs for an increased appropriation not authorised in the message from His Excel­lency the Governor.

Clauses 27 to 35, both inclusin, agreed t<J.

Clause 36-" A11lcndmwt of ''!'he n-atcr .clct of 1926' "-

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LA:'\DS Cl-Ion. T. Dunstan, (;_vmpie): I beg to move the following arnc,ndnwnt:-

''After line 13, page 27, insert the following provision :-

· The fact that an appeal is pending >"hall not in the meantime interfere \vith or affect the power of the Board to proceed with the making and levy­ing of the rates pursuant to any vah,Ia­tion made by the Board under the provisions of this Act:

' Provided that if any asscc ment is oJtercd pursuant to such appeal a due adjustment shall be made, for which purpose amounts paid in excess shall be refunded and amounts short paid shall be recoverable in an..- court of competent jurisdiction.' " ~

This is in keeping with provisions in the Land Acts, Income Tax Acts, and Local Authorities Act. It will prevent undue delay in the carrying out of Yaluations, and, if any assessment is altered, any adjustment nece;csary may be made later.

Amendment agreed to. Clause 36, as amended, agreed to. C'lanse 37-" .4pplication of prot·isions of

.·let to prickly-pear land "-agreed t . The House resumed. The CHAIR\IAN reported the Bill with

amendrnents. ·Third reading of the Bill maclo 2>11 Order

of the Day for to-morrow. The House adjourned at 9.29 p.m.

Hon. T. D1mstan.}