Legislative Assembly Hansard 1906 - Queensland Parliament

Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 4 SEPTEMBER 1906

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

530 Testata?'&' Family, Etc., Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

Tl:ESDAY, 4 SEPTEMBER, 190G.

The SPEAKER (Hon. Sir A. S. Oowley, He>·bert)· took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock.

QUESTIONS.

REii!ARKS OF 0HH'F JUSTICE 1'C MR. RANKING,

Mr. MAXWELL (Burke) asked the Secretary for Railways, in the absence of the Premier-

!. Has the attention of the Government been directed to the 1·emarks of the Chier Justice in reference to Police ]{agistrate Ranking in the recont Stuckwell case P

2. Does Mr. Ranking still retain the confidence of the Government?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon, D. F. Denham, Oxley) replied-

!. Yes. 2. Yes.

CARRIAGE OF COAL TO NORTHERN PORTS.

Mr. MAUGHAN (Ipswich) asked the Chief Secretary-

!. Is he aware that the practice of the coastal shipping combine is to refuse to quote freight for the carriage of coal to the X orthern ports of the State, but purchase the coal in Brisbane at a cut-throat figure and sell same at a big profit to Government departments and privately-owned concerns?

2. In view of this fact, will he consider the advisableness of chartering a steamer for the carriage of coal to the Xorthern ports, and thus give Southern colliery companies the opportunity of dealing direct for Northern coal requirements?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS replied-

At all Northern ports \Yhere coal is required regularly it is supplied under the regular contracts, publicly advertised, with a currency of two years. In case coal is needed for special purpose at a port not included in contract, a contract for that requirement is entered into. Prices have been very moderate. To charter a steamer to convey coal to Northern ports would be a costly proceeding, and, in addition, storage, either on a special wharf or in a hulk, would have to be provided.

GOVER~ME~T IXSPECTOR 01<' COAL.

Mr. l\IAUGHAN asked the Chief SecretaryIn view of the fact that large parcels of dirty coal

llave been supplied to oversea steamships-a fact

Questions. [4 SEPTEMBEB.] Questions. 531

severely commented upon by those in command-will he consider the desirableness of appointing a Govern~ ment in~pector of coal, whose duty it would be to see, inter t:tlia, that the colliery proprietors who supply elean coal for export do not snffer by the practice of those who supply an inferior article?


! have not heard that dirty coal has been supplied to oversea. vessels. All the \Vest :Thloreton coals contain a considerable percentage of slack, and this sometimes causes an adverse opinion on the part of marine engineers, but their calorific value is high-a fact beginning to be generally recognised. It is difficult to see bow any inspection could affect the quality o~ the coal supplied by a colliery t.o a private firm. It is a matter for the proprietors themselves to make known the quality o! their coal.

lNQ\:IRY INTO STATE 0~' CoAT, TRADE.

Mr. }J A UG HAN asked the Chief SecretaryConsidering the past and present demoralised state

of the caal trade, will he appoint a spemal commission of inquiry to thoroughly investigate the working of the industry, particularly in the direction of production, railway freights, Government contracts, coal tests. handling, storage, and home and export trade, etc.~

The SECRETARY J!'OR RAILWAYS replied-

so far as contracts for supplies for the Harbours and Rivers, .liarine, Home, and Chief Secretary's Departments are concerned, there has been nothing hitherto to indicate any demoralisation in the coal trade. Contracts have been carried out promptly and without hitch.

TEXDER~ FOR COAL, HARBOURS AND RIVERS DEPAHTMENT.

Mr. MAUGHAN asked the Treasurer-1. The average price of tenders for coal accepted by

the Treasury Department for Harbours and Rivers ser~ vices <luring the years 1898, 1897, 1898, 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1903, 190~, and 19051

2. The tonnage of coal used by the same department during the years named?


Coal coutraets in this department l1ave a currency of two years. The prices have been as undernoted:-

July, 1898, to June, 1899-Per ton.

Any part of Brisbane RiYer 10s. Railway ·wharf, Brisbane Ss. 9d.

189S-1900-Town Reaches. Brisbane River . . . 9s. Railway 'Vharf1 Brisbane 7s. 9d.

1900-1902-Brisbane River (price varies ac~

cording to clistance from town) 9s. 3d. to 9s. 9d. Railway '\Yharf, Brisbane Ss.


r:ordiug to distanc~ from town) 9s. to 9s. 7d. Railway 'wharf, Brisbane 7s. lOd.


cording to distance from town) Ss. Sd. to Ss. lld. Railway '\Vharf, Brisbane 7s. 6d.

Screened coal about 6d. per ton aclditional.

It would involve much needless work to get the consumption for each year from 1896 out of the books; but the consumption for the year 1905-6-namely, 10,924 tons-may be considered as an average year fur the period 19•ll to 1906.

From 1896 to 1900, the average annual consumption would be about 8,500 tons.

The quantities include the Harbours and Rivers a.nd :Jiarine Departments, but not the Chief Secretary and Home Departments (" Lucinda" an cl "Otter" supplies), whieh a:.'e also obtained undm· the same contract.

REPURCHASE Ol!' CERTAIN ESTATES.

Mr. KEOGH (Rosewood) asked the Chief Secretary-

!. Is it the intention of the Administration during the life of the present Parliament to repurchase any or the estates that may be offered, or are under offer at the present time? · 2. Have any of the undermentioned properties been

under offer to the present or previous Governmentsnamely, Fass.ifern, Normanby, Mount lfalker, Franklyu Vale, Hidden Vale?

3. On what grounds were thP\' refused; was it that the department thought the price too high?

4. Should the owners of those properties submit a further offer, will the Governmeut be prepared to receive it favotuably, should the price be suitable?

5. I! tbe price is still considered high, will the Government cause a valuation to be made, with the object of coming to an amicable agreement, and allow those properties to be cut up for close settlement?

The SECRETARY J!'OR RAILWAYS replied-

The policy o! the Government will be disclosed in due course. (Laughter.)

Mr. KEOGH : Is that an answer to all the questions?

TheSECRETARYFORRAILWAYS: Yes.

THE PLEYSTOWE MILL.

Mr. P AGET (Mackay) asked the TreasurerWill he lay upon the table of the House a copy of the

agreement entered into between himself, as mortgagee in possession Of the Pleystowe mill and lands, 11ackay, and the Queensland National Bank, and any other parties, by which tbe control of the mill has passed out of his (the Treasurer's) hands?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS rep!ied-

:N o objection on part of Treasurer; but before laying papers on the table of the House other parties to the agreement must be consulted-namely, Queensland National Bank, Limited, and the Pleystowe Mill Com~ pany and farmers. As a matter of fact, the Queensland National Bank are now taking steps to get that authority.

DEPORTATION OF KANAKAS.

Mr. PAGET asked the Chief Secretary-1. Has his attention been drawn to the remarks

made by Senior Police :J.Iagistrate R. A. Ranking in the case of a. South Sea islander named Robtelmes, who· was summoned to show cause why he should not be deported from Australia?

2. Has the Crown taken any steps to afford the· defendant any legal assistance~

3. If such steps have not yet been taken will the Crown do so, in view of the extreme urgency of the case?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS replied

!. Yes. 2. No. 3. If instructions are to be issued as to the working

or carrying out of the Paci fie Island Labourers Act of 1901 they should emanate from the Commonwealth Government.

CASE OF MR. HEGGIE.

Mr. FOX (Nm·munby) asked the Treasurer!. Did he or any officer of his department directly or

indi1·ectly refuse work to 2\Ir. 'rhos. Heggie, late ship's carpenter on board the'" Platypus" or any other dredge, subsequent to his action against the Shipwrights' Union?

2. If Mr. Heggie was retrenched for the sake of economy, why did one of the three men \Yho secured his dismissal recehe his appointment, notwithstanding that his position in the dock or on the "Platypus'' was junior to that of )fr. Heggie?

3. Seeing that the courts decided that 3Ir. Heggie suffered i11justice in this matter, do the Government propose to grant him any redress?

{)32 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.


1. Yes, and many others besides, as it is impossible to employ all who apply for work at the dock.

2. The foreman at the dock takes on the men whom he considers will suit him best.

3. I am not aware that the Government has done any injustice to Mr. Heggie.

SHEARERS AND SUGAR WORKERS ACCOMMODA· TION AcT.

Mr. HAMILTON (Gregory) asked the Secretary for Agriculture-

1. Have the inspectors under the Shearers and Sugar Workers Accommodation Act received instructions to ask workers engaged in those occupations if they prefer living in tents instead of huts?

2. If so, what is the reason, and at whose instigation are such questions asked of the men?

3. Is it the intention o! the ~finister to introduce an amendment of said Act this session?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE (Hon. D. F. Denham, Oxley) replied-

1. Yes. 2. It having been represented that some shearers and

sugar-workers-for instance, those who may be accompanied by their families -prefer living in tents, inquiries were instituted to ascertain the facts.

3. Power will be sought to make regulations under the Act.

Mr. LAND (Ralonne) asked the Secretary for Public Works-

1. Is he aware that the Shearers and Sugar Workers Accommodation Act is not being carried out in accordance with its requirements?

2. Will he take steps to have the Act carried out in time for the early sheds next year?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS (Hon. 'f. O'Sullivan, Warwick) replied-

These queations should have been asked the Secretary for Agriculture, but as I have the information I will reply to them-

1. Yes. 2. Time and season did not permit the Act to be

fully enforced this year with regard to buildings. Station-owners are now preparing to comply with the Act.

ALLEGED CoNSUMPTION OF DISEASJlD CATTJ,E.

Mr. I,ESINA (Clermont) asked the Home Secretary-

Will he cause a departmental inquiry to be held into the sworn statements of r:l'. H. Campbell, stockman, Glenlyon Station, Texas Police District, nnd published in the Carnarvon Clarivn of 24th August, 1906,-

1. That diseased cattle sufferjng from cancer, lumpy jaw etc., have been slaughtered by the st~tion butcher, Joh~ Kettle, for the use of station employees, shearers, selectors, and carriers t

2. That at the present time there are in the Plain Paddock and Oakey Creek Paddock on the station property a number of lu1npy and otherwi""e diseased cattls being fattened for the consumption of the ~hearers and general public?

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. P. Airey, Fli:Jde>·s) replied-

The Department of Agriculture and Stock has already taken action in the direction inclicated.

ALLEGED ALTERATION 01<' REPORTS OF DUNWICH.

Mr. LESINA asked the Home Secretary-! Is he aware that in the evidence given :n the

Sup.reme Court of Queensland, in the case o! Stockwell ve1811s Ryder, it is stated that some (if not all) of the annual reports of the Medical Superintendent of Duuwich which were laid before this House during the past five years were not true reports, inasmuch as

various material parts of tbe said superintendent's reports were excised and other material parts were altered before the said reports were presented to this House?

2. Is he aware that his Honour the Chief Justice expressed his F.evere condemnation of such suppressions and alterations?

3. I! the allegation that parts of the said superintendent's said reports were suppressed is correct, on whose authority was it done P

4. Why were the said reports mutilated and altered before being presented to this House, thereby mislead~ ing this House as to the nature of the ~aid superintendent's reports; that is. supposing the allegation that they were so altered is eorrect r

The HOME SECRETARY replied-1. This matter is sub Jtdice.

SUICIDE A'r MouNT GARNET.

Mr. LESINA asked the Home Secretary"\Yill he cause an inquiry to be held into the allega~

tions published in the Cairns AI~gus of 20th August, 1906, namely :-

(a) That a few weeks ago the body of a man who committed suicide was found at Reid's Creek, near Mount Garnet ;

\b) That word was sent to the police at Mount Garnet. situated 16 miles away, at about ll a.m. on the morning of the discm"ery, and that the police did not arrive at Gurumba until 7 p.m. the same day;

(c) That no arrangements were made for the burial of the body, which was allowed to hang a. whole day, and that then it was buried as it was, uncoffi.ned?

The HOME SECRETARY replied-( a, b, and c.l On inquiry it has been a.scertained that the matter was reported to the police at ~lount Garnet at 11.30 on the morning on which the body was found. The policeman, whose starting was delayed by other duty, arrived at Gurumba, after travelling oveJ• rough roads, at 5.45 p.m. The body was buried in blankets. as it was found impossible to get a coffin made.

WoRK A~D \VAGES AT Ro~rA-STREET GoonsSHED.

Mr. REINHOLD (Brisbane South) asked the Secretary for Railways-

1. How many shifts of men are employed as labourers at the Roma~street goods~shed P

2. What are the times of beginning and leaving off work of each shift?

3. How many men who have passed the porters' examination are employed as labourers at the Roma~ street goods-shed?

4. 1\rbat are the hours worked by and rates of wages paid to these men per day ?

5. What are the hours worked by and the rates of wages pa1d to pe1·manent employees of the Railway Department per day who are engaged at the same class of work?

6. ~\'"hat are the hours worked by and rates of wages paid to casual labourers per day who have not passed the porters' examination, and are employed at the same class of work?


1. Three.

2. 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., with two hours for meals; 9 a. m. to 9 p.m., with two honrs for meals; 1 !).nl. to 12 midnight, with one hour for meals.

3. Three. 4. These three men on probation work ten hours per

day, and are paid 5s. 6d. per day.

5. Ten hours per day, wages 6s. peP day.

6. Ten hours per day. Par broken periods of less than six days the pay is 6s. per day ; for longer periods, 5s. 6d. per day. ·

Supply. [4 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 533

SUPPLY. RESUMPTION Ol!' C011a!ITTEE.

DEBATE ON E'INANCIAL STATEMENT.

Question-That the sum of £300 be gfanted to defray the salary of the aide-de-camp to his Excellency the Governor-stated.

HoN. R. PHILP (Townsville): Before that motion is put I should like to make a few remarks on the Financial Statement delivered by the Treasurer last week, and I desire to preface them by saying that I am sorry that the Treasurer is unable to be in the House, owing to illness. I congratulate the country and the present Governrngnt on the state of the finances, not that I think our present financial position is due to any high financing on the part of any member of the Government, but simply because it is owing to the splendid country we have and to the colonists of Queensland themselves. \Ye have had a great improvement in all our industries, and they are at present in a good position. At no time in the history of Queensland has the outlook been so promising as it is at the present time in most parts of the State. \Ye have had very good seasons over seven-eighths of Queensland, and my only astonishment is that we ha-·e not a larger surplus than is shown by the Statement. However, for the surplus we have got we should congratulate ourseh·es. The year before last, the Treasurer, by a very fortunate coincidence, obtained a revenue which was within £1,000 or so of his estimate. This year he is £200,000 out in his figures, but luckily the difference is on the right side. The Federal Treasurer returned him something like £1ll0,000 more than he anticipated would be returned to Queensland, and all the State services-railways, lands, taxation, and I think all items except one-have shown big increases over the estimate. That is satisfactory to every hon. member, no matter on which side of the House he may sit, as we all want to see the State prosper, and the people of the State prosper. ThA fact that our revenue is increasing is one of the best signs possible. The returns from wool, from sug-ar, from butter, and from every othPr industry show. that they are in a much better position than they were last year, and that last year they were in a better position than the previous year. Before I go into the different figures and statements regarding the State finances, I wish to refer to another matter. The 'rreasurer has invited us to say something about the federal finances. Fortunately for him last year he got £120,000 more than the :B'ederal Treasurer estimated he would get. The Treasurer told us that "the present state of things is most unsatisfactory." \Ye have always said that since federation. For six years we have been saying that, and I think the other States have been saying the same thing.

The HmrE SECRETARY: They have not had the same cause to say so.

HoN. R. PHILP: No, they have not had the same cause, as fortunately for them they have had so much more money returned to them than we have had. \Ye have more reason to be dissatisfied with the financial results of federation than any other State in Australia. Sir George Turner stated that during the first three years Queensland lost £1,100,000, but according to Sir John Forrest up to the present time Queensland has lost over £2,000,000, and though our Treasurer has not had that money it has been extracted from the pockets of the people. A lot of things which we used to get duty from at one time are now coming in free of duty, and I think the other States have benefited more than we have. by intercolonial freetrade. Still we have a

splendid State in Queensland, we have more and cheaper land available than the other States possess, and in time we shall have a larger population. But we cannot get that population all at once. We must inaugurate some system of immigration for ourselves, and not depend upon the other States or the Federal Government; and Queensland was never in a better position to encourage people to come from Europe and go on our agricultural lands than she is at present. I should like to know what the Government intend doing to find suitable labour for the sugar plantations. We know that this year will see the end of the kanaka labour, that 5,000 or 6,000 islanders will be returned to their homes, and the question is, How are we going to replace those men? I do not think there are sufficient agricultural labourers in Queensland, or even in Australia, to take the places of those men who are going away.

Mr. MAUGHAN: Yes, if the wages are paid. HoN. R. PHILP: It is not a question of

wages at all. I do not think that anyone who has the interest of Queensland at heart wants to get the scum of Sydney and Melbourne and other bioo cities in Australia to go and work on the sugar plantations. \Ye want men who, after they have done cutting cane, will settle on the land.

Mr. HAMILTON: They can't get land in the sugar districts.

HoN. R. PHILP: I believe they can get land in the sugar di"tricts. The hon. member for Bowen will tell the hon. member that there are thousand~ of acres of land in his district open to sAlection now, and I know that all the large phnters are anxious to sell their land. They are offering land in many cases much cheaper than the Government are selling it ; they are offering land which is under cultivation, with a promise to supply water, on such terms as will enable people to acquire the freehold in a short .tim_e. \Ye have not the ne<Jessary surplus populatiOn m Queensland, nor I ~elieve is there the n<cess~ry surplus population m the other States, to provrde the labour required on sugar plantations. Some steps will have to be taken to supply that labou;, if we want to presf'rve the sugar mdustry to thiS State and I take it that evPry hon. member is anx10~1s to preserve such an important industry. Last year it turned out something like £2,000,000 worth of sugar and this year it will turn out about the same.' If we are going to make suffi • cient sugar for Australia, and perhaps by and by for New Zealand, we shall wantlO,OOO agriCultural labourers in Queenslanil. The dairying industry and other industries in connection with agriculture are increasing, and they will require more labour. I do not believe there i~ a country in the world which offe:s such opportunities to men as are to be found m Queensland, and what are we doing to induce people to come to the country? The Government [JUrpose spending £5,000 in advertising the State. I would rather see a sum of £60,000 or £70,000 on the Estimates to bring out 4,000 or 5,000 agri· cultural labourers. I dare say it could be arranged that such people, if they were brought out here, should repay their passage money, because with the present high wages obtainable on sugar plantations-£110s. a week and keptthey could pay £10 or £15 in twelve months or two years. That has been done in many cases before and I am sure it could be done now. It might' cost the State nothing, but even if the State had to pay a portion of the passage mone,Y it would gain by doing so. The Treasurer rs very anxious, and so are we all, about the fu~ure with respect to the federal finances. Smce federation was e~tablished there ha~ been a conference of State Premiers and State Treasurers year after year to see if some satisfactory

. Hon. R. Philp.]

S34 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.j Suppl,y.

basis of finance could not be arrived at, so as to ensure the States getting back a fair proportion {)f their revenue from the Federal Government. But up to the present all their attempts in that airection have been futile. Almost every year we have had some scheme suggested, but as far as I can see the present Federal Government and the present Federal Parliament have not the slightest idea of treating the States fairly. Sometime,; they talk about the petty States. Their idea is, I believe, to do away with the State Governments and the State Parliaments, and have one Government and one Parliament for the whole of Australia. I do not think that would Si'\tisfy Queensland ; I do not think it would satisfy any of the States unless the States take the matter into their own hands and settle it on a sound basis. Every three years they have the opportunity of returning representatives to the Lower House and half the members of the Senate, and the· electors should make it the one condition of their support of ·candidates that they should at onco find a solution of this difficulty of Federal and State finance. One of the things we were promised by the Federal Government was that they would take over transferred properties, and pay compensation for those properties, and this is one of the first things they ought to have done, according to the Constitution. . They have taken over the properties, but as far as 'r know they have not given any compensation for any of those properties.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: That is so ; they have taken them over, but they have not paid for them.

HoN. R. PHILP : The late Government claimed £2,300,000, but nothing has been done to meet that claim. I do not think the Federal Gcvernment are serious in the matter at all, and I do not think they mean to deal with that matter.

Mr. HAli!ILTON: They have got the buildings, and they do not pay for them.

HoN. R. PHILP : They ought to pay for them. We are responsible for the payment of the debentures in connection with those buildings, and the Federal Government ought to take over that responsibility. They have the properties, but they do not shoulder their own responsibilities. Five years ago Sir George Turner said the Government had not sufficient revenue to pay for the buildings, and that if they took them over they would have to impo:;e fresh taxation.

Mr. J. LEAHY : They have as much right to take property without paying for it as anybody else.

Mr. LESINA : That is a plank in their platform.

HoN. R. PHILP : The Federal Government said they would be unpopular if they imposed fresh taxation. The State Governments have to impose fresh taxation and become unpopular, and why should not the Federal Government shoulder their own responsibilities? The States do not want cash down for their building:;, nor ·even debentures, but they certainly do ask that the interest on the debentures should be paid by the Federal Government. The time will come when those debentures will fall due when that .£2,300,000 will have to be paid, and the debenture-holders will probably then say: "You have parted with the security for this money, .and we refuse to renew the debentures." It is laid down in the Constitution that the Federal Government shall take ovtr the transferred properties, and compensate the States for those properties-that is, that they shall pay the States for them in some shape or form. They have not done that, and it appears to me that they have no intention of doing it. That is

[Ho1f, R. Philp.

one of the grievances we have against the Federal Government and the Federal Parliament. Then, again, Queensland has not received the three-fourths of the revenue which was supposed to be secured to each State. They say that the three-fourths of the total revenue

should be returned, and one-fourth [4 p.m.] kept by the Commonwealth. \Vel!,

we have fallen short, unfortunately, and any proposal that is made is to be on the basis of the past revenue from Customs and Excise. That will not suit Queensland, although it may suit States like South Australia and Tasmania, which are not progressing in the same way as Queensland. I am certain that Queensland will progress more in the future than she has in the past, and it would be most unfair to Queensland to enter into any arrangement based upon the revenues of past years. 8ir J obn Forrest proposes to secure the Braddon clause for ten years more, and return a fixed sum based on the revenues up to uno.

The HOME SECRETARY : That is a departure from the fundamental principle of the Braddon clause. Ho~. R. PHILP: Certainly. \Ve should get

a fixed proportion of the Customs and Excise for all time, and not a fixed mm, unless the Federal authorities are compelled to take over the State debts, and I do not think they will ever do that. I do not think the other States will allow them to take them over, and we shall have to pay all the interest on our debts ourselves. \Ve are auite able to do it. We ha·<e splendid assets for the money we have borrowed.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: So long as we get our three-fourths back. Ho~. R. P HILP : I believe every State would

join us in making that demand, and if it is made by all the States, no Federal Government could afford to ignore it. \Vhen the United States first federated. they took over all the State debts and imposed Customs taxation to pay for them. It was lucky for the States that they did so. But then things were very different to what they are n'lw in Australia. Four or five of the States of thB Union had borne all the burden of the war, and it was only right that their debts should be taken over. But in Australia every State has borrowed money for public works, some wisely and some, perhaps, unwisely. But I am satisfied that for the money we have borrowed in this State we have a good asset, and we need not have the slightest fear of the fntnreor of being unable to meet our interest and redemption payments, so long as the fundamental principles of federation are carried out. \Ve went into federation on the understanding that we were going to get back tl;ree-quarters of the Customs and Excise, and that ought to be carried out. If it is not carried out, we should dissolve the federation altogether. (Hear, hear !} We had proposals from Mr. Swinburne to take over the States debts. Mr. Harper made a proposal to establish a sinking fund, into which most of the money shall be paid. But it would not be fair to the people of this generation or of the next generation that the whole of our present debts should be wiped ouiJ within a certain limited time, because we shall be leaving valuable assets behind. The bulk of our debt has been incurred for reproductive works. Large sums have been spent in subsidies to local authorities and to central sugar-mills; we have also permanent improvements in the shape of buildings, and our railways, on which most of the money has been spent, are a v:.luable asset. On one occasion Sir Hugh Nelson stated, when he was sitting on the Opposition bench, that if our railways were sold at any time, we could realise sufficient to pay off the whole of our n·ational debt. At present they are paying

Suppl,y. [4 SEPTEMBER.] Supply . 535

.£2 16s. per cent., and I have not the slightest ·doubt that with normal seasons we shall be able to pay the whole of our interest bill from the earnings of the railways. Knowing these things, we should be very foolish to enter into any arrangement with the Federal Government to pay ns a fixed sum annually. We want to follow the revenue year by year, and get at least three-quarters of our Cnstoms and Excise revenue. We want to have some check on federal extmvagance. We know that year by year they are going in for new ventures. ·'rhey talk about State-owned steamships, and that remmds me that the Royal Commission which was appointed by the l<'ederal Government reported th~t we were now paying £125,000 a year to the Onent Company. Queensland is also paying .£26,000 a year, and six or seven of the representatives of Queensland endorsed the report and the proposal that Queensland should go on paving that £26,000 extra. \V e have not had much federal feeling exhibited towards us so far. VVhm the {)On tract was entered into, the people in New .Sonth VVales and Victoria knew the steamers would be calling at Sydney and Melbourne, and they were quite satisfied with the contract to land the mails at Adelaide. They did nothing to help Queensland in the matter. We pay our per capita share of the £125,000, and then we have to pay a further sum to get the same benefits as Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Hobart, and .Fremantle get without paying one farthing. That shows that the federal feeling is not what we thought it would be. Then we built a railway to our border on the understanding that New South Wales would extend her railway system to meet ours at Coolangatta. VVe attered our tunnels and the roadway so that tlie line to Brisbane might be converted into a 4 feet Si;; inches line; but New South Wales has never constructed the 14 or 16 miles necessary to make the connection. Does that show t~e fedeml spirit? We thought that under federatiOn all these little differences and 'ealousies would be removed, but up to the pre'sent ·Queensland has not been shown much of that brotherly love that was expected to result from federation. Of course, we have to blame our.selves to some extent. The men we sent down have not fought our battles as they should have done, and as we expected they would · and apparently, New South Wales and Victo~ia get practically all they want, and the smaller States are left lamenting.

Mr. KENNA: We want a Torres Straits service.

HoN. R. PHILP: But that is not a federal matter. That is a matter for the State Government, and I understand the Treasurer is going to bring in a definite proposal before the ~ouse rises. He will get support from this side, at all events, to enforce our l:'\tate rights. At present we are not receiving a fair do from the Federal Government or the Federal ParliaIl!ent. I m':st compliment the Treasurer upon his modesty m that he has not beaten the big drum in his Statement, but that he gives credit for the improvement in our affairs to the good seasons, to which it is undoubtedly due. But he tells us tliat the policy of the Government with respect to the central sugar-mills has been amply justified. He talks about ten mills having been affected by that policy, but I understood there wore only five in the hands of the Government, and those five made a profit of £9 ooo· in three years, but against that they had to 'pay

. Dr. Maxwell £3,000 for three years. Before this debate closes I think lion. members will be able to show that the mills that have done the worst in the State are those which are managed by Dr. Maxwell,

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Before they were taken over they paid no interest or redemption at all ; since then they have.

HoN. R. PHILP : But compare his results with the results of other central and private mills?

The SECRETARY E'OR AGRICUT,TURE : In addition to that £9,000 there has been an improvement of £50,000.

HoN. R. PHILP : I believe that if Dr. Maxwell had not been there there would have been an improvement of £100,000. Dr. Maxwell was not brought to (~ueensland to look after sugar-mills at all. (Hear, hear!) He was brought here to show our farmers how to increase their crops of cane from 10 or 15 tons to 20 or 30 tons per acre. Has he brought that about? I believe the man who has done more for the sugar industry in this State than any other man is the late Mr. Oowley, who was in charge of the Kamerunga State Nursery, near Cairns. Several times he went to New Guinea, and brought several varieties of cane from that country, some of which have proved the salvation of the canegrowers of Queensland. Bodilla was one of them, and that variety has proved the best we have. Another man who has done a great deal for the industry is Mr. 2\Iitchell, the overseer of the Acclimatisation Society, who is engaged in propagating cane from seed. Has Dr. Maxwell brought in any new canes ? Has he done anything for the farmers? I believe that the experiments which he initiated have all been abandoned. 2\Ir. Henderson, on the Herhert River, carried out the experiments for three or four years, and then he abandoned them, as they did not pay, and now he goes upon his own lines. I would much rather that Dr. Maxwell had been a great success, because I am responsible for bringing him here ; but, so far as his work among the sugar-planters is concerned, I must admit that it has proved a dismal failure. I believe be is a capable chemist. He had a good name in Honolulu, and, before that, in Louisiana, as a chemist : he is an agricultural chemist. But he has been occupied in politics since he came here a good deal, and also in fighting the kanaka v. the white man, and now he is engaged in managing sugar-mills. The Treasurer shows, at all events, that he has made a profit of £B,OOO in three years, and it has cost £9,000 for his salary. If he had left the mills alone, with the splendid seasons we have had, I believe all these mills would have done much better than they have done under Dr. Maxwell. Other mills have done better under the same conditions in some cases. The Moreton mill has done very well, thanks to the manager there now, who came from the Isis.

Mr. PAGET: And commanded the best price for twelve years back.

HoN. R. PHILP : Yes, with the experience and breaking in they have had, they are now a lot of practical people. The ont,ide mills in new districts have not done so well, such as those at Nerang, Mount Banple, and Moreton. The Isis Central Mill, after some drawbacks, is a great success; it is in a sugar district, and they have had good pmctical ad vice and assistance. But even these mills were coming round. The Moreton mill was coming round, last year being the best they have experienced after the good seasons. The cane was splendid. This has resulted from the effects of the money ad vacated to be lent by the late Hon. W. H. Groom. I remember him coming to the Government and saying, " There are a lot of unfortunate farmers who had no crop last year, and they will go away if you will not give them rations to enable them to stop and try again."

Mr. PAGE'!': They got .£2,000.

Hon. R. Philp.]

536 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

H!JN. R. PHILP: Yes, and they have been commg ~ound. Now we find just as these mills are gettmg out of the trouble that the Treasurer is going to foreclose. My own experience of a privat!3 mortgagee !s that he only forecloses when there IS not the s!tghtest hope of a man bein" able to pay up. But here we find the Govern~ ment., who are not supposed to make a shilling o~t of a ~an's misfortune, when they find the mills conung round are going to foreclose.

Mr. CAMPBELL: They want to cover up Dr Maxwell's mistakes. ·

• HoN. R. PHILP: I am not going into detail m regard to these matters, because that will be done by the hon. member for Mackay, Mr. Pag~t, '':ho has. made a study of these things, and_1s gomg to ~1ve the House his opinion on the ~ubJect. !fe will probably take some time to do 1t, but he 1s a thoroughly practical ~;ugar-planter and knows the difficulty these men have had and how they havp been hampered and harassed by Dr. Max.well. I re~eat that I hope the Governme~t Will do somethmg for the sugar industry -that IS to try and provide suitable labour for them, because 5,000 or 6,000 kanakas are leaving Queensland after the end of this year and they will have to be replaced by white lab~ur. As I ha~e said, I d_o not think we can get suitable wh1te labour m Australia. \Ve want to get people who have been used to agricult11ral work because the cutting of the cane is not all the work: The cane has to be cult1vated · of course the ?utting requires more men, but ;fter the cutting Js done we want to keep a larg-e proportion of these people in Queensland, and you can only keep people who have some lmowled"e of ao-ricultural work by opening up the land a"nd settllng them around sugar-mills. To keep them here ought to be the first business of the Government. Now, we have three big interests in Queensland ;-the a!l"ricultural, p~st?ral, and mining. If these n;dustnes o:re flounshmg, the State will be all right. I thmk something should be done for the sugar-planter and farmer, but there are not many farmer~ left now. Then, again, the miners want somethmg done for them to-day. \Ve have a !\'lining Bill before the House-that may help or 1t may not-but I think the best thin" we can do for mining districts is to build railways to them. \Ve last year passecl a Bill to build a line to Clt;mcurry ; this year we have passed a Bill to bUIIrl a line to Georgetown. \Vhen these two lines are finished, I think there will be plenty of work for all the unemployed men in Australia. I regret to see ·the present Government do not seem alh:e to the necessity of pushing on the ?onstructwn of the Cloncurry Railway, because it 1s only two days ago that we saw it stated that t):lere are only seventy men employed on that hue. Only seventy men after eight or nine months l There is room for 700 men to build ~hat ;ailwa:y-, an~ the marvellou• thing is that it IS a !me whiCh will pay after it is finished. The Government made a mistake at first in offering such a ~iserable pr~ce for sleepers. They made that rn1stake, and 1t was only in ,June last that they offered the price they are offering now.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS : The price was raised in February.

HoN .. R. PHILP: The present high price is not as h1gh as the sleepers cost in Brisbane.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Do you want to see them higher in price?

HoN. R. PHILP: No; I want to see the line built a~ a fair price, but not at the prices that me!! w1ll not get wages out of it. The method whlC~ the Government started at first is now responsible for the present high rates. They want 300,000 or 400, 0~0 sleepers to. build that rail way, and I say ther~ IS plent~ of t1mber locally if they offer men a pnce that Will pay them to get it.

[Hon. R. Philp.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: We want-240,000 for this section, and we have made· arrangements for 230,000.

HoN. R. PHILP: There is one contract for 100,000 to one man.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: \Ve have let several contracts.

HoN. R. PHILP : Because the Government did not offer sufficient money at first.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: The con-· tractors supplied at their own figure.

HoN. R. PHILP: It was not their own figure, but a scale of prices given by the Government • Some men took it and some did not, and some of those who took it could not carry out their contract. There are letters in the Townsville papers. about it every day. I'he last letter I saw stated! that the present price offered by the Government was only g-iven in .June last.

Mr. KERR : Did you not see what Mr. Paganc said this morning?

HoN . .R. PHlLP: No; I did not see what Mr. Pagan said, but I saw what Mr. Minehan said, and I believe that he knows more about sleepers than Mr. Pagan. Yet the teamsters ar~ doing nothing now. Why will they not take th1s work?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: The price is· the same as was paid on the previous section. ~ON. R. PHILP: If the price which was

paid by the late Government had been given they would have had a lot of sleepers. Of course the sleepers we had three years ago were at 2s. The teamsters have to go further out now, and require to be paid more for them. There is als<Y more work in North Queensland now than there was a few years ago.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: On the 15th February the price was the same as the price paid on the 27th June. . HoN. R. PHILP: Theysaythat2s. lld., which IS offered now, is too little, and I understand that sleepers from Brisbane will cost 3s. 9d.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: There haq been a difficulty owing to the drought period.

HoN. R. PHILP: I do not know that there was any trouble in getting sleepArs up there. I want to see this line built, and I do not want to see it built at a very high figure either. The Government should have offered a higher price for sleepers at 6rst; they will have to offer rr.ore than they are offering now. The sleeper-getters up there say that sleepers coming from Brisbane cost so much, and why should they not get the same price? \Vhy should the local workers not get the labour? There is not much public work going on in North Queensland, and this work might have been kept there. The distance to Tonens Creek is 200 miles, and sleepers can b& had alongside the whole of that line at various parts. I am satisfied if the Government had offered a fair price at first, under fair conditions, the Government would have had enough sleepers now. Instead of that, 20,000 sleepers have gone from Brisbane. After all, it is necessary to get that line built, and built quickly, and I hope that the Government will now take measures to complete the line as quickly as possible. The Minister has promised to finish it at the end of next March.

The SECRETARY ]'OR RAILWAYS: Three miles a week.

HoN. R. PHILP: I have been to North Queensland, and the Minister has not. Sometimes we get a wet season there, and, if we do, it will be impossible to £nish that line by the end of next March. But had the same steps been taken to build the Cloncurry line that have been taken to build the line from Thane's Creek to Goondiwindi, most of the section would be completed. We find there are 500 men working on the line from Thane's Creek to Goondiwindi; if

[ 4 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 537

that number were working on the Cloncurry line, you could easily have built there two miles for every one on the line to Goondiwindi.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: No construe• tion has been done on the Cloncurry line. Ho~. R. PHILP: The men who could have

been doing this constructive work have been get. ing sleepers. They have been cutting logs in different places, and no one can do that and get them carted in and lay the sleepers. I say that if reasonable progress had been made that 90 miles might have been finished by the end of this year before the wet season, when we might be stuck up for two or three months. Of course, it would be a good thmg if we had a wet season, because it has been very dry up there lately. The Government are to blame for not making more progress with this work. I do nob suppose there is any man in this House who would get up and say that this line is not as important as the other. I have been told that the reason for pushing on the Thane's Creek line is to get the carriage of the wool, but I am satisfied that there is more copper ore carried from Cloncurry to Richmond every month than the wool likely to be carried annually on the Goondiwindi line. I am quite certain that there will not be 340 tons of wool carried from Goondiwindi for a long time to come. The best possible thing the Government could do is to give communication to mining fields. If that was done they would have gone a long way to make those fields successful and profitable. Further, when the line g-ets built to Cloncurrv. the G-overnment ought to tell us what steps are going to be taken to allow the people on the mines all round that ]!llace to get communication.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: There has been no application made yet.

Hox. R. PHILP: Yes, application has been made to build a line from Hampden to Oloncurry--71 miles. The present Mining Bill only provides for 10 miles. Mr. Moffatt, of Irvingbank, told me only a little while ago that he wanted to build a line 14 miles long from Irvingbank to Stannary Hills, but under this Btll he could not do it.

Mr. }lAX WELL: But this Bill is not law yet. Ho~. R. PHILP: I think a member of the

Government ought to get up and say that no opposition will be given to men who want to link their mines with the Government lim>, no matter whether it is 10, 50, or 100 miles. The further away it is the worse for the man who owns the mine, and he ought to get more comidera· tion. Mr. Moffatt, of Irvingbank, has done as much as anybody in North Queensland for mining, but he finds that he cannot now· carry on at his mill. The timber is so far away that it is impossible to carry on his work, and now he wants to !.mild a line to connect with Stannary Hills.

The SECRETARY l<'OR RAILWAYS : Has he applied? I have never heard of it.

Hox. R. PHILP: I do not know, but only last we.ek he told me he is prepared to go on with the work.

Mr. MAXWELL : There is nothing to stop him. HoN. R. PHILP : Yes. This precious

Mining Bill says you shall not build a tramway more than 10 miles.

The SECRETARY l!'OR RAILWAYS: Did they go to work in the right w:.y?

Hox. R. PHILP: Yes. I am told that they made application to the warden of Cloncurry ;

they paid their deposit, and it came [4.30 p.m.] down here, and I understand that

the Minister refused to sanction it. The Home Secretary knows that they cannot develop these mines without communication.

1'he SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: \Vhat lines did they ask for?

HoN. R. PHILP: They asked for a line to Hampden, 53 miles, and to Mount Elliott, 18 miles further on. They cannot make these mines pay without railway or tramway commu· nication to them. They are willing to undertake the construction of the railways under the Tramways Act themselves, which provides that you cannot carry goods and passengers at more than a certain rate. I say it would be a good thing if the Government would build these lines, but at the rate the Government are building the railway to Oloncurry we will all be dead and gone before it is built. They want to build their tramways now and have them finished by the time the line to Cloncnrry is finished. As this Government is said to be progressive in developing the country, they should foster in every possible way anyone who· wants to build a line of that sort. They do not ask for a guarantee of 2~ per cent. like the Etheridge people. They say: "\Ve will build the line ourselves if you will allow us." J<'or every man employed in the mines now they will employ ten if this tramline is built. They also want to build a tramway to Duchess, 30 miles further on. These mines cannot pay unless they have railway or tramway communication. To connect the different mines in the Cloncurry district with the main line, 1,000 miles of tramway will have to be built. \Vhat a splendid thing that would be for Queensland if all those· lines of tramway were built and connected with the main line at Cloncurry !

1\/1"_ TT..-.. ... ~-~·- TJ! ~1....- --=--· _.J: --~--- 1---~~ --~

iio~~~:R~·PHILP·;~TI;~-pri~;;r~;PP;;i; high now, and this is the time to seize the opportunity of getting people to build such lines. i::lome day the price of copper may fall to £50 per ton, buu if these people get rail way communication before that drop takes place they will still be able to compete with other mines at the lower price. But if the price of copper falls, and they do nut get the tramlines built, then it will be a difficult thing for them to compete with other mines. One of the moRt important matters is to get these tramways built to the different mines around Cluneurry. Very few members in this Chamber have any idea of the enormous extent of mineral we• lth of that district. That will be of no use· until we get the line to Cloncurry, and we will not be getting the full use of that line unless the people who own the mines are allowed to build tramways to the main line. To show the importance of the place, in July this year nearly :HO· tons of ore were carried by teams from that district.

Mr. MAXWELL: That is only high-class ore. HoN. R. PHILP: It is only the high-class

ore that can afford to pay the cartage charged by these teams-£6 per ton. Then that is taken to Richmond and to Townsville bv rail and thence down to smelting works in Kew South \Vales. Unfortunately, we have got no smelting works on the coast of Queensland just now, but I hope we will have them again before long. If we had our own smelting works we should not only be able to carry all our own mineral stuff there, but we would be able to en1ploy a large number of men in preparing our own copper for the markets of the world. I do not know of any other time when any Government had such an opportunity of doing something for the people of Queenslanil.

An Hoi\OURABLE MEMBER: What about leasing the Barron Falls?

HoN. R. PHILP: \Ve were going to get about £40,000 in fifty years, and if the present Government can get more than that they will be doing a good thing for the State. I think it is rather a pity that the offer we received on that occasion was not accepted and the work gone on with.

Hon. R. Pkilp.]

538 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Suppl.1J·

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: vVas the offer rejected?

HoN. R. PHILP: The Home Secretary remembers the noise that was made in the House from both sides at that time, Mr. Foxton, the Minister for Lands, went up to Cairns, and the matter was discussed in the papers, and everybody knew all about it. The mayor of the town and the chairman of the divisional board had an interview with Mr. Foxton on the subject, and the whole thing was discussed openly;

Mr. KERR: Mr. Pagan reported strongly against it.

Hon. E. B. FORREST : Mr. Pagan was not Chief En(lineer then.

HoN. R. PHILP: That offer was made a good many years ago and was not accepted, and not a shilling has been received from that property yet. I do not think that anyone will give £25,000 to work the Barron Falls now. In other countrie" they would allow a company to work them for nothing, because it would benefit !he district so much. I repeat that I hope this Government will do something for mining. I am pleased that the Government passed the Etheridge Ra,il way Bill ; I hope the other House will also pass it, and that the l;overnment will build it as quickly as possible. I would like to ask the 1finister if other applications are received to build railways of the same kind as that to the Etheridge will he give them the same favourable terms as was given on this occasion?

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: You heard what the Premier said.

HoN. R. PHILP: The Premier assured this House that he would be prepared to grant other offers on the sn.me terms, and I hope that they will be granted on the same terms. Only two of the six private lines we passed were built-the Chillagoe and Mount Garnet lines. Of the four other lines that were passed, there has been no ad vantage taken of the concession granted, I presume because the concessions thn.t we made were not liberal enough, but I hope, now that we have started to give more liberal concessions, that we will be able to get people with confidence in the country to build more railways for us.

Mr. KERR: What you came out to curse you are bles>ing.

Hox. R. PHILP : I am not in the habit of attacking a sick man. That is an attitude I have never taken up in this House yet. (Hear, hear!) I am pleased that the 'freasurer is going to make a remission in the income tax, but I do not think he goes far enough. I think that everybody should get the same exemption, no matter what their salary or their income is. The first .£160 ought be free in every income. Thn.t is the principle which was in the first Income Tax Act which was passed by this House. When we come to deal with that Bill, I believe the House will agree to do what is a fair thing. It is a bad thing that one class should pay no taxation, and that the other classes should pay all the taxation. That is taxation without representation, which has never been done in any country of the world yet. I hope that someone will move the abolition of the Income Tax Act altogether. (Hear, hear !)

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : Get us out of federation, and we will soon abolish it.

HoN. R. PHILP: We want better terms, at any rate, from the federation, The first Income Tax Act was brought in for two years only. It is an unfair tax, and in some cases it presses very hard indeed. In many cases people have to pay income t;tx, not on income, but on money that they never earned and never will earn. They have to pay on the increase in their sheep and cattle, on all the calves that are born ; but these calves very often die, and they do not get any remis•ion of the tax at all. An income tax

[Hon. R. Philp.

should be a tax on a man's income only-on the money he receives, less the money he pays away.

::\Ir. KENNA : And not on the increase in his cattle?

HoN. R. PHILP: No. That is not income. At one time we had 7,000,000 cattle in Queensland, but now that total has fallen to 2,500,000. I can cite a case where a man had been paying income tax on his increase in sheep every year, but in time his sheep were taken from him by the bank or some other institution, and he never earned a shilling from them. The income tax should be a tax on a man's surplus after paying his expenses in business. A man may have an increase in the number of his cattle, and in two or three years the whole lot may be swept away. Only to-day I heard that things are so bad in the country inland from Burketown that the teams cannot travel there. Yet the people there are paying income tax on their increases, and the chances are that this year their herds will be swept away altogether. The court held that such taxation was unjust, but the House afterwards imposed special legislation to meet it. I hope that the Premier's forecast will be realised. In some things I think he has been pessimistic, and in other things he has been optimistic. He only puts down £744,800 as the amount he expects to receive from the Commonwealth this year as against £857,048, which was the actual amount he received last year. I am of opinion that he will receive just as much this year from the Commonwealth as he received last year. The expenditure the State Treasurer has no control over, but with regard to the revenue returns a man living in Queensland, knowing the seasons, will know better than a man living in Melbourne what the result i• likely to be.

The SECHETARY FOR AGHICcLTURE: He actually refused to give the State Treasurer the basis upon which he makes his calculation.

HoN. R. PHILP : It is only guesswork. He gets the information from the collectors of Customs in the various States. If anyone in this House wanted any information about anything in Victoria, would he not take the advice of a man living in Victoria?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Yes; I would.

HoN. R. PHILP : Then, would we not rather take the forecast of a man living in Queensland about a forecast as to what the revenue would be? My idea i$ that the Customs receipts will be more this year than they were in the past twelve months. We are told by the Treasurer that the railways rose from .£1,256,000 to .£1,483,535 in 1905, and next year he AY.pectS to get .£1, 650,000. I am inclined to think that the Trea;nrer is a little optimistic in that estimate. The quantity of sugar produced in 1903 was 91,828 tons, in 1904 148,484 tons, and in 1905 152,512 tons, and I am satisfied that there will be more sugar produced this year than there was last year. The quantity of butter produced increased from 7,717,325lb. in 190:1 to 17,538,473 lb. in 1904, and to 20,319,976 lb. in 1905. With the early rains we have had this year, I am sure the Secretary for Agriculture will agreA with me that there will be much more butter produced this year than was produced last year.

The SECRETARY E'OR AGRIOcLTUHE: Yes, much more.

HoN. R. PHILP : The wool produced in· creased from 34, !197, 076lb. in 1903 to 46,058, 482lb. in 1904, and to 53,072,727 lb. in 1905. I am sure that anyone who knows anything about wool knows that there will be a larger clip this year than last year ; and as our revenue is based on all those industries I certainly think the Federal Treasurer's estimate is a most pessimistic foreca~t of the revenue from Customs. Our exports


have risen from £9,500,000 in 1903 to £11,!l39,000 in 1905, and the numbers of cattle and sheep have increased. According to the last Australian bank returns, as published in the A ~'stralirm Banking and Insura·nce Record, the total deposits on the 30th June last exceeded the advances by £21,799,000, and the total deposits in Australia in seventeen months have risen from £117,000,000 to £127,000,000. All this shows that money is accumulating, and that industries are paying better than they were :t few vears ago. If that is the case we must have "a bigger revenue, because, as everyone knows, one-half of our revenue through the Customs comes from luxuries, and not from neceBsities. About 46 per cent. comes from narcotics and spirits. If people are doing well, they live well, and I am satisfied that the Customs revenue next year will be larger than it was last year. There· fore, we should have a bigger return from the Federal Government. Of course, I admit that they are going to spend more this year, and that we have no control over their expenditure, but we know hew much they :tre going to spend. We are promised penny postage. That may be a very good thing for Australia, but it will be a very bad thing for Queensland.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICl:LTURE: It will only benefit the merchants.

Hox. R. PHILP: It will only benefit bankers and merchants. The annual postage bill of the ordinary individual who writes letters will be very small. . Penny postage is not wanted in Queensland at the present time. If in time to come we can afford this penny r;ostage I suppose we shall get it, but we are now losing large sums every year on our postal departrnent. '\V e ought to make the cost of the post and telegraph service a cherge on the Commonwealth as a whole. Our postal services are not for the benefit of Queensland only. Victoria and New South Wales benefit as much from our post and telegraph service as we do, and the matter should be one of federal concern. We subsidise a service from Brisbane to Townsville, and another from Brisbane to Norm:tnton, and the people of New South '\V ales and Victori:t have as much trade with our Northern ports as we have, so that if any service should be a charge per capita on the whole Commonwealth it is our post and telegraph service. But instead of that we are charged with the cost of our own services, and we have to pay an additional subsidy to the Orient Company for coming to Brisbane. I think something should be done by the Government to inaugurate another line of steamers from England to Brisbane t•ia Torres Straits. (Hear, hear l) '\V hen the first service was starterl to Queensland via Torres Straits there was great opposition to it, but those who at first cursed it afterwards blessed it. The terminal port of that service was Brisbane, and it benefited every port in Queensland from the Gulf down to Brisbane. It stopped at Thnroday Island, Cooktown, Cairns, Townsville, Bowen, JYiackay, and Rockhampton, andeveryportin Queensland was benefited by that mail service. Possibly Brisbane benefited more than any other port in the State. In any case, I think tenders should again be called for a service once a month via Torres Straits. It may be asked why did t.he late Government ab:tndon that service? '\Vel!, we were getting that service practically for nothing for three or four years, but the company found they could do better by sending their steamers round by the Cape, and they are doing that now. We want a cargo service, and if we are going to inaug-urate a system of immigration, that is the way we should bring our immigrants. We want to bring them straight out to Queensland, and not via vV estern Australia, South Australia, Victoria, and New .South Wales, because if we bring them by that

route there is a probability of their going back to those States. But if they are brought direct to Queensland most of them will stop in Queensland. In calling for tenders for a mail service t•ia Torres Straits we should guarantee a certain number of passengers. '\Ve want to get anumber of people to come here-people who are strong, and used to work. It should be no detriment to a man in the old country that he cannot pay his passage, and if we are to get stroug, healthy men we may have to pay their passages. '\V e can get back the passage money, or a portion of it, after they have been in the State a certain time. If men get good wages, it is no hardship to ask them to repay part of their passage money within twdve months. '\Vith a guarantee of passengers every month, I think we should get a chea1.er tender fer a four-weekly service t·ia Torres Strait>, and such a service would be a great benefit to Queensland. I hope the Government will introduce such a proposal, and that all those hon. members who supported the subsidy to the Orient Company will give it their support, seeing that it would be a great benefit to the North. When the subsidy to the Orient Company was under con,ideration the late Premier Mid he was prepared also to subsidise a Northern service, and I think the Government should now redeem that promise, for a service via Torres Straits would g-ive new life to North Queensland.

Mr. KENNA : It would be a good advertisement for Queensland.

HoN. R. PHILP: Yes, it would be a good advertisement for the State. I am afraid that the new federal service will not benefit us very much. It will certainly bring- our letters quickly to Adelaide, but I do not. think the company will be prepared to come to Queensland without an additional subsidy. I notice by the home papers that they are to get, not £125,000 a year, but about £250,000 a year for that service. I am opposed to paying them any extra amount to come to Queensland. If we are going to subsidise a service, let us subsidise a service of our own, and let it come by way of Torres Straits. {Hear, hear !) I believe that in time we shall be able to do without the Orient service, because a line of steamers will, I understand, come up to Blisba.ne once a week and take our butter away for nothing. I do not think we should have to pay very much more for a service of our own than we pay to the Orient Company now, and we should get a service which would satisfv the whole of ~~ueensland. I have not gone th'rough the Treasurer's figures, and I do not propose to enter into details on this occasion. I am pleased to see that the Government have been able to give a number of increases to public servants, and am only sorry that they have been kept out of th'?se increases so long. I am also pleased to notice that the hospitals are to get back their subsidy. There was no necessity for the present Government to reduce that subsidy, as two years ago they had a surplus of £12,000, and last year they had a surplus of £42,000. Nobody knows better than the Home Secretary how that !eduction in the subsidy disorganised the finances of the hospitals, and, speaking for myself, I say I would rather have seen a deficit than have reduced the hospital subsidy. It was a mistake on the part of the Government. They have now seen their mistake and have rectified it, and I can only say that I am pleased that it has been rectified. I am glad also to see that they are going to restore the endowment to grammar schools. They propose to give grammar schools £750 this year, and to take out £250 in scholarships, so that they are practically making the endowment £1,000. I should be pleased if the Government could see their way to start a university. I must admit

Hon. R. Philp.]

540 Suppl,y._ [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

that at one time I thought Queensland could do with the universities iu the other States; but I can see that WP cannot do without a university of our own. We want more education to develop this great country. We want the very best education we can get for our people. Our grammar schools have done a great deal in educating the people, and so have our other schools. We have an excellent institution in the school of mines at Charters Towers ; but I am sorry to say that it is being starved for want of further buildings. When I was there last year the man in charge of the school told me that they wanted £2,000 for new buildings, and I am sorry that sum is not .provided on the Estimates. The students attending that school are getting a splendid education in practical mining. Char· ters TowPrS is one of the largest goldfields in the State, and that is where a school of mines ought to he.

Mr. MAXWELL: 'Ve ought to have several schools of mines.

Hol!. R. PHILP : I think it is better to have one good school than three or four indifferent schools.

Mr. MAXWELL : "What about the people at Gym pie?

HoN. R. PHILP: I should be glad to see the people of Gympie have a school of mines if the country could afford it. The i:ltate certainly benefits by the establishment of such institutions. and I take a little pride in the fact that I started that school at Charters Towers. I should like to see the present Government a little more alive to the necessities of the State, and take a big step forward to introduce a number of people into the country. 'Ve want a vigorous immigration policy, and a vigorous works policy, and we want also to settle as many people as possible on the land. I am glad that the Secretary for Public Lands is doing something in that direc· tion, but I think he could do a great deal more. Last year the New Zealand Government bought big estates to the amount of £780,000. I know that some people say, "Th<' leader of the Opposition here advocates t.he selling of land, and the buying back of land." I am quite prepared to say that I believe in both. There is a number of estates in the 'Vest

Moreton and Darling Downs dis[5 p.m.] tricts alongside railways which it

would pay handsomely to buy back at a fair price.

Mr. KEXXA: Why not in the North? Hox. R. PHILP: I do not see whv we should

not alsn buy back some estates in the"North. If we intend to assist the sugar-growers, we ought to have some land on which those engaged in the industry may settle ; and, if the Government have not got land themselves, let them buy it, as there is plenty of good land which can ·be had very cheap. There is good land on the Burdekin and about Cairns. It would be a splendid bargain for the Government to buy back land close to a railway. Tbev are buying back land, as I have said, in New Zealand ; they are also buying back estates in Victoria and New South Wales. Queensland started it, but she has stopped. Why? Has not the Act, on the whole, proved a splendid success? What is the cause of the big returns from the Southern and 'Vestern Railway to-day ? Are they not mostly clue to the repurchase of estates on the Darling Downs and their settlement? Every hon. member must admit that the repurchase of those estates gave a tremendous impetus to settlement. There are other estates which, if bought, would be readily taken up. vVe ha Ye· a better chance of gettin"" successful settlement if we settle people alongsid~ a railway than if we put them down 40 or 50 miles away, even if we sell them the land for

[Hon. R. Plvilp.

2s. 6d. an acre. We should buy every estatenear a railway that is available where there is a good rainfall.

Mr. KENNA : Suppose people will not sell? HoN. R. PHILP : I do not know of any

estate whose owners are not prepared to sell. If they will not sell at a fair value, let a board appointed by this House fix a fair price if the land is wanted for settlement. I would not confiscate any man's land, or tax it unfairly. So far as I know, there has never been any scarcity of land offered to the Government. When the late Government were in power, for every estate we bought we refused eight or nine.

lYir. LESINA: Is not all taxation confiscation? HoN. R. PHILP: No; you ought to tax

everyone alike ; but here you confiscate one man's land and let another man's go free. If land is required for close settlement, and we have built railways to it, then the Government are justified in buying that ]and. They have compulsory sections in the New Zealand Act, but so far as I know they have not been enforced, and the estates which have been acquired by the Government havf\ always been bought in the open market. For many years to come Queensland <Jan buy back estates at a fair price.

JI,:Ir. LESINA : Then selling does not promote settlement.

HoN. R. PHILP: I would not be a party to selling big areas of land fit for agriculture and having a good rainfall. The land .we have for sale now is a different class of land altogether. Of course the Government are selling land now. They sold a lot of land in small areas last year, and some in big areas too. I do not know a better mode of settling people than to acquire some of the large estates which are near to railways. I hope that now that the Government have started they will not be deterred by the taunts ,,f their whilom supporters, and that they will go on doing the proper thing to make Queensland a populous, well-Hettled country. 'Ve have room in Queensbnd for millions of people. I think Mr. Coghlan some years ago expressed the opinion that New South 'Vales and t;!ueensland would in the future carry the big population of Australia. He estimated that the population of the two States in fifty years would be something like 6,000,000 or 7,000,000. We want to do all we can to bring people he1·equickly, and to make this country as well known as we know it. I believe that if Queensland was known in the old country as the people of the State know it, we would have plenty people flocking here; but, unfortunately, little is known and little can be known unless we are prepared to offer big inducements to pe.ople to come here. At the present time Canada, the United States, the Argentina, and the other States of Australia and New Zealand are advertising their countries as much as they possibly can. 'Vhy are we not doing the "ame? 'Ve have as good a country as anv of them.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : A better. HoN. R. PHILP : Better in some respects.

The competition is keen in the old country and in Europe for people, and we shall have to offer better inducements than Canada and the United States. We shall have to make the passagemoney almost equal to what it is to Canada ; we shall have to offer them land, and induce them in every way to come here. I think that during the last fonr or five years Canada has obtained 500,000 people from Europe, and she is prosperous. This large influx of population has no doubt aided materially in bringing about that prosperity. They have good land, and so have we; but we are only getting a miserable addition to our population. Last year only some 1,200 people came here.


Mr. HARDAORE: Those figures are not correct. HoN. R. PHILP : I must take the figures

that are given us. I cannot go to \V allangarra and to all the ports in Queensland and count how many people are arriving. \Ve certainly do not see any coming. \V e want people to come who will work, and we want people with money as well. During last year some 4,000 people arrived in New Zealand, and they brought with them capital to the amount of somethiilg like £300,000. Canada has got 500,000 people during the last fi veyears, and they have brought millions of money with them. There is no doubt that the most prosperous time in the history of 'Queensland was when immigrants were coming here in thousands every year. We used to have no difficulty in absorbing thousands of people annually before we had a sinde mile of railway, and now that we have over 3,000 miles of railway we should have no difficulty in absorbing 10,000 every year. Have the Government no faith in the country? I believe the Secretary for Agriculture has faith in the country.

The SEORETAHY FOH AGRICCLTURE : Hear, hear!

Hox. R. PHILP: Well, let him put £50,000 or £100,000 on the Estimates to pay the passages of people to Queensland to settle on our lands. There is plenty of room for them.

Mr. LESIXA : That is paying for population for the otbe.r States. They will not settle here.

Hox. R. PHILP: I have been here a long time, and I know that most of the people who have come from the old country have settled here. Some of them may have gone to the other States, but I am quite sure we have got more people from the southern States than they have got from us, and, after all, I believe one man from the other States is worth two men from the old country. (Hear, hear !)

The HoME SECRETARY : That might be a good policy for Queensland, but not for Australia.

HoN. R. PHILP: We h>tve to look out for ourselves in this matter. The other States are just as much in need of people as we are. We have only a limited number to draw from in Australia-only 4,000,000 altogether. \Vest Australia is offering good conditions ; South Australia, Victoria, New South \Vales, and New Zealand are all doing the same. They are all bidding for the surplus population of Australia, and we have a poor show of getting many of them. We shall get some, because I believe this is the best State of the lot; but, if we want the population to increase as it ought to do, we shall have to go to the British Islands and to Europe. \V e can get plenty people if we are prepared to pay their passagee, but, unless we are willing to do that, I do not think we shall get many. I do not think the fact of ad vprtising land in London, or the spending of £4,000 or £5,000 in distributing pamphlets, will attract people here. \V e want to be able to say to people, "We will take you out on the same terms as you can now go to Canada," and in some cases we might say to them, "After you get employment we want some of the money back in twelve months." That is worth trying. At present we seem to be dormant, and to be satisiied that there are enough people here already. I think we ought to have double our present population, and people of the right sort. Some of the people who are going to work on the canefields are not much use. We do not want to come to Brisbane, Sydney, and Melbourne for men to engage in that work. Some may go and work for six months, but we want people to settle down on the land close to the canfields, and there is a better show of getting people who will do that from the old country or Europe than of getting Australians to do it,

because we know there is a shortage of labour in every agricultural centre in Australia, and that every branch of agriculture is growing. I hope that as we go through the Estimates we shall be able to point out to Ministers the injustices they have done, and I hope we shall be able to have them rectified. I am not going to cavil at the Statement now before us. It is a modest Statement, and I am inclined to think that the Treasurer has been too pessimistic, and that he will certainly get more money from the Federal Treasurer than he expects. I see that the hon. gentleman says that nearly all public servants drawing under £200 per annum are to get increases. If that is a true statement-and I have no reason to doubt it-it is a very good thing. I see some of the higher paid men are getting large increases, but I hope the division has been fair, and that we are going to right the public ~ervants to some extent. 'l'hey have had a pretty bad time during the last four or five years. The State has suffered, and they have suffered too. I am sorry to see there is not a larger amount down for public works. There are a lot of public works which might be gone on with now. Then more encouragement ought to be given to local authurities to build tramways and railways. I have already said that encouragement ought to be given to the Cloncurry district. I hope the Minister will take a note of the refusal which has already been made to one company to build 70 miles of tramway from Cloncurry to Mount Elliott. If we wish that great mineral district to be developed, we must give the people interested in it every encouragement. The directors of that company are entitled to expect the same terms as the Chillagoe Company are getting, but they have simply asked for permission to build tbe line out of their own pockets, and on the terms which this House has laid down. It seems strange to me that the Government have refused an application of this sort. I would also point on t that the owner of Irvinebank wants to build a tramway 14 miles long, and I hope he will not be refused. He has gone on with teams to cart stuff as long as he can, but he wastes a lot of time and does not make very much. He has to smelt ore which has to be carried hundreds of miles, and he certainly ought to get every encouragement to do it as economically as possible. Everybody knows that Mr. Moffatt is one of the best mining men in Queensland, and be has helped more miners than any other man I know of. He has not always been fortunate in his speculations. He has been in that part of the country ever since it opened up, and the one opinion of the miners in that part of the country is that he has done more to keep that field open in times past, and more to push it ahead, than any man I know of. He is not like a syndicate from the old country, coming out to get all they can by booming the shares. He is carrying on the busmess of smelting tin; he is the only man in Queensland I know of who is smelting tin, but he finds that he cannot carry on business with gatisfaction unless he gets 14 miles of a tram line.

Mr. MAXWELL: Why did he not make an application?

HoN. R. PHILP : He is deterred by this Mining Bill. Other people have been refused, and why should he get this before others?

Mr. MAXWEJ.L : He can get it under the present Act.

HoN. R. PHILP: No, he cannot. The present Bill says distinctly that you cannot get a tramway for more than 10 miles. Seeing that the Government have gone so far with regard to the Etheridge Bill, I hope they will go further, and do all they can to help forward that part of the countrv. I regret that the Premier is ill and not able to take part in the debate. I do

Hon. R. Pkilp.J

542 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] .Supply.

not know that I would have said any hard things if he had been here, but I certainly will not do so while he is not in his seat. The State, I am glad to see, is recovering-in fact, has recovered--and I hope the Government at the head of affairs will show their confidence in the country, and go in for a progressive policy, and if they do that they will have the assistance of members on this side of the House.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, heart The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE

(Hon. D. F. Denham, Oxley): I desire to say that I appreciate the kindly remark which the hon. gentleman who has just resumed his seat has expressed towards the Premier. The speech is one that I think will go a long way to assist the debate upon the :Financial Statement, taking as he has a broad-minded view, having regard to the interests of the country rather than that of political parties. (Hear, hear!) The hon. gentleman considers that the Treasurer has been a little pessimistic in framing his Estimates, particularly so in regard to the amount which he anticipates to receive back from the }federal Parliament. I quite agree with the hon. member, and I think if the Treasurer were here him,elf he would say so also.

Mr. FoRSYTH : He says so in his Financial Statement.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Practically so, but I think it would be highly indiscreet on the part of the Treasurer if, when the Federal Treasurer had said, "You will receive back only £7 44,500," he had put on the Estimates a larger sum. He would probably have thrown himself open to the charge that he was "cooking" his Statement. I well recollect that last year-reference is made to it, I think, in the Financial Statement this year-we had framed our :Estimates on the basis that we would get £810,000 back from the Federal Treasurer during 1905·6, and we were very much concerned to receive a communication from him that the amount that we would receive would be less than .£740,000. That necessitated going over the Estimates again, and in many cases revising and reducing the expenditure, and unfortun:ttely it threw upon us the responsibility of bringing in a Bill to provide for increased taxation. I refer now to the Land Monopoly Tax Bill.

Mr. LESINA: Originally a revenue Bill. The SECRETARYFORAGRICULTURE:

Primarily a revenue Bill. Mr. FORSYTH: Thegeneralconsensnsofopinion

of the House was that the amount would be a good deal more

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : I had a different view myself, and I should have been very glad if I could have induced the Treasurer on that occasion to have lifted his estimate above that of the Federal Treasurer, but he took up the line-I think that is a perfectly sound anJ correct line-that it is not well for us, seeing we have not the control of the expenditure, to estimate anything in excess of that which the Federal Treasurer estimated to hand back. Happily, the :Federal Treasurer sent us a great deal more than his estimate-a great deal more, indeed, than the State Treasurer expected he would have received.

Mr. J. LEAHY: And yet he promises .£8,000 more this year than he promised last year.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: A very much lesser sum than we expect to receive. Seeing that last year we got £857,000 we could reasonably have estimated gettmg £800,000 this year. Of course we have to remember that £20,000 was received last year in connection with the c,,lonial Sugar Refining Company, 'wd also a sum in respect of the opium tax, wh;ch will drop out of Customs this year; but, viewing the general prosperity of Queensland, it

(H0n. R. Philp,

was perfectly reasonable to think, and the· Treasurer did think, that the State would at least receive .£800,000 or £820,000 back, and, when he received the information that the amount he wonld receive this year was less than £750,000, he at once got into communication with the Federal Treasurer, and endeavoured to ascertain the grounds on which he based his estimates. He even went to the extent of asking that he might see the information which the State officers of the Commonwealth departments had supplied him, and upon which the Federal Treasurer bad compiled his estimates, but this was in the first instance refused. I am glad to see that even with the amount which the Federal Treasurer has said we shall receive this year£744,800-we will be enabled to make ends meet and be able to restore what I think we all on both sides allow is a fair thing-to restore the arrested automatic increases, increase many salaries, and make more liberal provision for hospitals and kindred institutions. (Hear, bear !) The revenue now-and it does not appear to be· too much to expect a further increase on the railway earnings, judging by the two months of ,July and August-indicates an increase as compared with last year. The first two months indicate thaG the estimate furnished by the Commissioner is likely to be rea!iHed, at least, and possibly very much exceeded. I quite agree with the leader of the Opposition with regard to penny postage-that those who will benefit mostly by it here will be the trading community and the large financial institutions. I do not think Queensland ever sought penny postage, and it makes a further inroad upon the amount of three-fourths that we are entitled to receive back from the ]'ederal Government. 'V e have not yet experienced the true spirit of federation. If there be one service that is truly federal, it is the Post and Telegraph service, and yet right up to the present time the loss on our postal service has been debited back to Queensland, and Queensland has had to pay it. Regarding the mail service vi<! Torres Straits, bon. gentlemen know that in January, 1908, the contract with the Orient Company ceases. Up to the present time we do not know that the new Royal mail steamers are coming here at all. They are not likely to come here without the subsidy, and I do not think the country is likely to approve of a special subsidy being given. ItJ would be infinitely better for Queensland to get a Royal mail service of its own, going up the coast of Queensland through Torres Straits, and calling at Eastern ports, and not only serving the Northern towns of the State, but also developing the trade that awaits Queensland in the East. (Hear, hear!) I may say that the desire expressed by Northern towns to have connection with Brisbane, Sydney, and Melbourne, by refrigerating steamers, is on the point of being consummated. Negotiations are about complete for the Adelaide Shipping Company to give us the use of their boats " Konoowarra" and "J\;Iarloo," every fortnight, coming down the coast from Cairns, and calling at all the ports as far as Melbourne.

Mr. KE!'INA : Including Broadmonnt? The SECRETARY :B'OR AGRICULTURE:

Broadmount when required ; but it is not included in the regular itinerary. Cairns, Townsvilla, Bowen, and Mackay are included in the regular itinerary. So that we have made a slight move in the direction of supplying our wants in regard to refrigeration, but the thing can only be consummated when there is a service starting from Brisbane, calling at all the ports, and going via Torrcs Straits to the old country. (Hear, hear!) If it ever becomes a question of granting a subsidy to tbe new Royal mail steamers to come to Brisbane or of giving a

Supply. [4 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 543:

subsidy to a line of steamers going up the coast of Queensland, then I think there is not much doubt of what this House will do or the country will approve. They will every time go for a special line of boats of our own. After all, I do not know that Australia is in such a mighty hurry about her mail service; most of the important commercial business is done by cablegrams.

Mr.l!'oRSYTH: We want a service for goodsnot the mails.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: \V e are not concerned with the service for mails at all, but mainly with respect to a freight service. The leader of the Opposition dwelt at some length upon furnishing rail way facilities to mining district,. \V e know what has been done in regard to the Etheridge, and the Premier stated that he would be quite prepared to do the same thing for any other district that might come along with similar proposals. It is not strictly correct that the Hampden-Eiliott people have been refused. A few months ago I had an interview with one of the directors of the Hampden company, Mr. Knox, who suggested the need of the Cloncurry line going down to Hampton or bringing it further eastward-I think to Eddington. \Ve had a conversation with the Railway Commissioner, who was distincly in favour of the line junctioning at Cloncurry rather than further east, but nothing definite has been submitted, and certainly there has been no rejection. \Vhile we have the statement the Treasurer made during the passage of the Etheridge Bill, that he would be prepared to deal with any company on similar lines, I should be inclined to say that the Government would not decline to deal with mineowners who are desirous of erecting a tramline. It stands to reason that they cannot conduct their business successfully without railway communication, nnd I personally think that the

Tramways Act is one that might be [5.30 p.m.] utilised for the construction of the

_ . Hampdenrailway. Buttheremaybe oh]ectwns to that. Inasmuch as it would not be a State-owned railway, controlled and worked by the Railway Commissioner, it might not be accepted by certain gentlemen; but to my mind the desire would be to see the district opened up, so long as the country was not suffering by any arrangements made to so open the country up. The hon. member referred to the question of sleepers for the Richmond to Cloncurry extension, and on mor3 than one occasion I remarked that the price was amended in l!'ebruary and brought up to the price paid during the time of the previous construction from Hughenden to Richmond. The Chief Engineer, immediately the Bill authorising the extension of the railway from Richmond towards Cloncurry was passed through the House, went about getting sleepers. He considered, seeing that the drought had broken, that it was likely sleepers could be obtained at a lower price than during the time of severe drought. In that he was wrong, and immediately he discovered his error, and found that the sleepers were not coming forward as he anticipated, he amended the price so as to brin~>; it in February to the same level that obtained during the time of the last construction of the Richmond Railway line. Since that time he has from time to time increased the price in ·,rder to stimulate the delivery of sleepers. He has had a good deal of bad luck in the way of men from time to time taking up contractstheir own tendering and their own figuring, and knowing all the conditions, without any interference on the part of the Commissioner or Chief Engineer-and having to relinquish them. On one occasion the contractor said that he could not g·et teams, and the Chief Engineer at once said : "I will arrange to send teams up from

Brisbane." Another contractor said : "I shall not be able to supply the quantity I contracted to supply." The Chief Engineer immediately met him, and did all he possibly could to stimulate the supply of railway sleepers on that particular line, even to increasing the price up to the figure at which they now stand. Even if they had the sleepers there they could not have commenced the construction until they had got the raile there. Now the rails are being delivered or are about to be delivered. The two steamers which are carrying them are on the Queensland coast, and I do not think this House will have any cause of complaint of the rate of progress that will be made as soon as the rails are on the ground. (Hear, hear ! ) It is the intention of the Commissioner, and it is the aim of the Chief Engineer, to do what has already been stated in this House will be done-namely, that 3 miles of rails will be laid per week when the work has commenced.

Hon. R. PHILP : \Vhen will it start? Mr. KERR: On the lOth of September. Did

you not see to-day's paper? The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

I see in a newspaper report this morning that Mr. Pagan was interviewed at Townsville on his visit of inspection. It says-

:Mr. Pagan, interviewed with regard to the Cloncurry Railway, said that on visiting Richmond he found that the engineer, ~Ir. i>Iunro, bad everything pretty well forward for a start, and, as a matter of fact, had already started. He had been budding bridges, sidings were put in, and sawmills erected. There was most of the class of men required on the ground, such as plate~ layers, etc. Platelaying will actually commence on lOth September. With regard to the sleepers, he said: " When we started to get them I did not think there would be so much difficulty as has been experienced with regard to getting teams to haul the logs, which seems the lion in the path, bnt I find the same difficulty in the South and Centre. As a result we had to buy teams and wagons and go into the hauling businessourselves, much against my wishes. What is more, I dicl not know when the rails were going to arrive. As to bringing sleepers from the South, I would never have thought about doing so had not the contractors who undertook to snpply 100,000 sleepe1·s within six months been unable to fulfil the contract owing to the scarcity of teams. 'ro enable us to cany out our promise we had te> bring from the South sufficient sleepers to enable us to make a start. If we have made a mistake. which has yet to be proved, I alone am to blame. But any clifficuity which has arisen seems to have been entirely owing to the increased prosperity of the country-a most gratifying circumstance. Had plenty of teams been available, we would have bad no diffi.~ culty in getting the sleepers and logs required. I am assured that when the wool season is over there should not be the slightest trouble.

The Government see the importance of constructing that line, and intend during the session to seek parliamentary authority for the completion of the section right up to Cloncurry.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

-\Ve shall have delivered by the end of th& year on that route about 30 miles more rails than Parliament has authorised to be laid, so we shall not be "caught napping" for the continuation of that railway during the cooler months of next year, at any rate.

Hon. R. PHILP: How many sleepers have you ordered from the south?

The SECRETARY :I!' OR AGRICULTURE: Twenty thousttnd. It is rather remarkable that the amount of loan monev which is available now is as much or more than it was some two years ago. The loan money seems to be like the widow's cruse of oil, in that no matter how much is drawn from it it is not diminishing. \Ve have been projecting as much public works as it is wise to project with the amount of loan money in hand, but if the Railway Bill which I introduced a few weeks ago goes through,

Hon. D. F. Denkam.]

541. Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Suppl,y.

then it will be necessary to float a loan to construct many of the lines sought for under that Bill. If that Bill appears on the statutebook, then public works in Queensland will be much more active in thP next few years than has been the case for many years past. It is a matter for congratulation, I 9m sure, that our loan indebtedness has not been added to during the past three years. We have been able to get along without increasing our public debt, and that has had a very marked effect upon our security. The bondholders in the old country, and the bondholders here too, see that Queensland is working along carefully, and with the good seasons which are prevailing she is able to hold her own and carry out a certain number of public works without increasing her indebtedness. It is certainly a matter for congratulation that such is the case.

Mr. MAXWELL: Didn't you read what Mr. Thynne said in London?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: I notice that our stocks in the old country have increased steadily in the last three years, and our stocks have increased stP~dily in Queensland during the last few years as well. It was only last week I think that the Treasurer had a sum of .£50, 000 offered to him at .£9910s., and bearing interest at 31, per cent.

Hon. R. I'HILP: He ought to have taken it. Mr. FoRSYTH : It was very cheap. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

I thought it was very cheap too, but just at present we do not want it.

Mr. FORSYTH: You will want it next year. :Nir. HARDACRE : I can get it for 2~ per cent. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

It is refreshing to know that Queensland securities n,re being so highly esteemed.

Mr. FoRSYTH: They always were. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

Of late years they were not so good as they are now.

Mr. FoRSYTH: Of late years they were as good as any other State.

Hon. R. PHILP : And higher than some of the other States.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: When we find the State able to carrv on, and things are generally prosperous, it i:l natural that our bondholders are likely to appreciate it rather than others. About the only matter which the hon. gentleman introduced which appears to me to be distinctly adverse in his criticism was that with reference to Dr. Maxwell. One remark he made was that Dr. M axwell took sides-white against black.

Mr. KERR : The blacks against thP whites. Hon. R. PHILP : At first he was black against

white, but be has turned round since. The SECRETARY FOR AGR,ICULTURE:

The hon. gentleman said that Dr. Maxwell took sides in the question of black v. white. Unfortunately, Queensland has no say in this matter at all no.v. '!'he Commonwealth has stated that the kanaka must go.

Mr. FoRSYTH: But perhaps even the Commonwealth cannot make them go.

The SECRETARY FOR AGlUCULTURE: That is a very interesting point; but, at any rate, the Commonwealth Parliament could not persuade the Queensland Parliament to take the matter in hand. Queensland has requested the Commonwealth Parliament to see to the deportation themselves, and they will probably find that the matter is not so easy as they expected it would be.

Mr. PAGET: That is an absolute certainty. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

In that connection I think we are under a debt to the Sugar Commission for their exhaustive and valuable report. If it were not for the very

[Hon . .D. F. Denkam.

valuable information contained in the report of that commission, I am not sure whether the federal authorities would have been so prompt in carrying out their precious legislation as they have been.

Mr. KENNA: Dr. Maxwell said that the white labour would never do the work in the North.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: I do not know that Dr. Maxwell is confident about that question yet. He appeared to have some doubt, and I do not know of anything that shows he is confident that Queensland will succeed with white labour.

Mr. J. LEAHY: He will give any opinion that suits him.

Mr. PAGET: That is so. The SRCRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

Only a few days since the hon. member for Moreton said that Dr. J'/Iaxwell had made certain recommendations to the federal authorities with regard to the bonus. It was not quite correct that Dr. Maxwell gave any recomm<mdations at all. He went down to answer any questions or give any information which the federal authorities desired. He did not make any recommendation, but merely did what was expected of him-to give information that might be sought for. I expect that in the files in the libraq we have the Commonwealth papers, and in a Commonwealth paper of the 27th October, 1905, dealing with the sugar bonus, it will be seen that Dr. Maxwell was in Melbourne at the request of the federal authorities ; that certain matters were submitted to him, and he replied to them specifically.

Mr. PAGE1' : He replied as vaguely as he generally does.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: At least it cftnnot be said that he made any recommondation, or that he has been adyocating a policy of black labour, or has been ad vacating that it was desirable to increase the excise.

Mr. CAMPBELL : The Premier stated last year that he did very good work for the sugar-planters down here.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: I think it will be admitted that he did good work for them, and that if he had not been there the Federal Parliament might have made the excise £5 instead of £4. The first question that was submitted to Dr. Maxwell was-

For what fnrther period does it appear necessary to review the system of paying bonus on white-grown cane? I shall not read the whole of the answer, but shall give his conclusion, which is as follows:-

An extension of the bonus for a period of seven years can claim the greatm;t measure of sup1101't: providing, as it appea1·s, the highest mean of security and advantage to all interests concerned. On the maturing of such further period, the situation would again come under consideration.

The next question was-Should the bonus continue to be paid in its present

mnount, or are there reasons for a revision: Linked with that question was the following further question :-

Should a reducing scale be adopted with a Yiew to the gradual diminution aud extinction of the bonus? This opens up the matter to which the hon. member for :iYioreton referred. The answer Dl'. Maxwell gave to that was as follows:-

To propose a reducing scale at this time would be to assume that this great experiment of substituting a white labour power for a coloured labour power in a tropical industry, that is in its course of trial, were approaching maturity ; that its purpose is already successfully established, and that it is at one time to begin the removal of the machinery by which it is being conducted. The experiment has made a very notable progress ; the results set forth under Question No. 1 show, however, that the present measure of accom-

8upply. [4 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 545

plishment covers only one-third ofits pmpose. There are still two-thirds of the total sugar crop of Queensland being produced by coloured alien labour power.

The measure of achievement has not ,y·et been reached that would render the adoption of a "reducing scale" applicable to the situation at this time. To enforce its adoption prematurely can undo the present success, and threaten the future promise that waits upon the experiment.

I think hon. members will allow that the advice he there gave the Commonwealth was sound and practical. The next question was-

Are there reasons for a revision of the present rate of import duty? The conclusion of Dr. ::Yfaxwell's reply to that is as follows:-

The present import duty of £6 on foreign p1·oduced sugars entering Australia, althow;h low when corn~ pared with rates of duty operating in some other countries, appears to be adequate for its purpose.

He also Btated that the duty upon foreign sugars entering the United States of America is approximately £8 per ton, and that in that country they have no excise on home-grown sugars. The next question was--

What are the forcgeen effects of an increase of the excise duty P

Tbe reply to that contained these observations-If an increase in the excise, with a cortesponding in

crease in the bonus, should be propo:;;ed, then it is probable that one of the first '" foreseen effects" would be an instant, and very serious, attempt to bring under white production the areas of the large plantations in the Southern district, in which district it is being demonstrated by the small canegrowncrs that white production is practicable, and where it is t.i1e most certain that white labour \Vill be available, and further white settlement immediately possible. Sugar production will not continue by coloured labour ir a lessened protection should threaten to render it unprotltable in that chstrict where the conditions are at hand, in the laTgest measure, suitable for white production. providing that a further period of extension of the bonus be assured that will induce a, change from black to white production to be made.

In the NorLlle~n district, the sitaation is otherwise. In that district settlement is spaTse; and, so far, has not been increased by the proYi:sions in favour of white sugar productioa. Neither white people prepared to settle upon the land, nor white labour Teudy to work at the higher wage that the bonns woulcl provide, are on the ground, in the same proportionate state of Teadiness that obtains in tlle Southern distTict. 'l'he North, it is foreseen, would have to continue to grow sugar for '3ome further period under the lowered protectwn that would follow an increase of excise, or that distTict would have to suspend production.

There the argument is in favour of helping the man in the North-that if the excise is increased the bonus should be increa~ed, which is precisely what was done by the Fderal Parliament. Dr. Maxwell further o:tid-

If an increase of excb.1 should be proposed, then the question is one of the amount. Should 1t be in view to raise the excise by £1 per ton, then black-grown sugar will retain a production of £2 p:w ton agaiust the foreign sugars, produced by cheap eoloured labour, arriving from other cane-producing countries. In the Northern district ::tlmost, exactly 8 tons of cane are required to make a ton of sugar. lt is, therefore, seen that a protection of £2 per 1on on the sugar would be equal to a protection of 5s. per ton of cane to the coloured home producer against the producer of cane by cheap alien labour iu outside cane-sugar countries.

TherefOre, if an increase of excise, with a corresponding increase of bonus, is made, it is likely to induce or force an immediate substitution of white for coloured production in those districts where the natural and economic conditions allow at once of the change.

If the amount of the increase of excise should be such as to lower the protection below a given sum, then in those districts where white production is far from being fully and immediately practicable, the result will be the handing over of that proportion of the present production of sugar by British farmers using alien labour in Queensland to the produc~rs of black sugar by the cheapest labour, in other countl'ies, for consumption by the Australian Commonwealth.

1906-2JYI

There he certainly argued that it was not practicable to still further increase the excise and lower the bonus, because that would have the effect of making it impossible for men in the J'\orth to grow sugar with white labour. It can hardly be said that Dr. Maxwell, when he was in the south, was working against the interest of the sugar-growers of the State. He was not there to make any recommendation ; he was there merely to answer questions which the Commonwealth Parliament propounded to him, and I think it will be admitted that he answered those questions in all honesty, and to the best intere"t of the State of (~ueensland. As a matter of fact, there was a strong plea on the part of the Federal authorities to raise the excise to £5 per ton, and then to £4 1 Os. a ton, but at length they were prevailed upon to leave it at £4 per ton.

Mr. FORSYTH : Has that kept out foreign sugar? #

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: No ; and if they rose the excise to £5 per ton and left the duty at £6 per ton we should h:we been flooded with foreign sugars.

Mr. CA1IPBELL : How does that apply to the ::\!J:oreton mill, whose power is not equal to the quantity of cane grown?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: It is all grown by white labour there, and they have the benefit of the bonus.

Mr. CAMPBELL: They do not; they lose £1 per ton.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: No ; I do not think that is so.

Mr. PAGET: Yes; the mill is really reducing the price paid for cane.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Neither Dr. Maxwell nor anybody else crtn control the value of sugar.

Mr. PAGET: This is not in connection with the value of sug:tr, but in connection with the excit~e.

TbeSECRETARYFOR AGRICULTURE: The price is based upon the value of sugar in the market, and the amount of the excise.

::Y1r. PAGET: The farmer does not get an increased price for his cane owing to tbe extra bonus.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: The rea;;on for increasing the bonus is that the farmer may be benefited. In any case it cannot be said tha>t Dr. ::\Iaxwell did anything in Victoria which was inimical to the best interests of Queensland. 1t was never anticipated when we went into federation that one of the first things

they would attack would be the [7 p. m.] supply of labour in our canefields.

Dr. J\i(axwell was not responsible for that legislation, nor can we allow that he was responsible for the federal policy on his last visit to Melbourne. All that he ~ought to do was to absist our industry by getting the very best terms possible in regard to the excise and bnnus. Dr. ::VIaxwell's business is how to conserve the sugar industry, and the promotion of its best interests. It i.~ our bigg-est agricultural industry, and anything that the Government can do to ensure the suppiy of suitable labour for the canefields will be done. Hon. members will remember that one of the most valuable of the recommendations made by the Royal Commil'sion dealt with the future supply of labour-

That there be esf,ablished a 1abour intelligence bureau, with branches in every populous centre, \V here reliable information may always be obtainable Tegardw ing the demand for and supply of labour. That statistical information be regularly interchanged between branches through the central bureau. That

Hon.D.F.Denham~

546 [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

provision be made for allowing the bureau officers to become the agent of either employer or employee in making contracts for employment.

The Government very promptly took action in that regard. Regulations have been framed for the guiilance of clerks of petty sessions all over the State and for the receiving of applications for labour from employers. Already arrangements ar'J being made to remove the Chief Inspector of FactorieR from the Treasury Buildings, where his office is by no means too accessible to the public, to a more accessible building in Ed ward street, and the clerks of petty sessions throughout the State will be constituted labour agents. There will he superintendents in cer-· tain large centres like Rock ham pton, Townsville, and Cairn,., who will have under their control other towns radiating from those port,,, so that the recommendations of the Royal Commission have, so far, been followed. They further made this recommendation-

That if, as a result of such inquiries and representa~ tions, no sufficient surplus labour of a suitable charac~ ter appears to exist. or, if existent, is not likely to be attracted to the sugar districts, information be disseminated in the Unit.ed Kingdom and the continent of Europe as to conditions obtaining in the sugar industry and as to facilities for land settlement, with a view to attracting immigrants. I sc<trcely think that the Immigration Restriction Act will operate against our bringing men here to undertake work in. the canefields. I feel sure that representations to the Federal Government will facilitate the introduction of men from Europe for that work. If the black labour is to go away, then, as the leader of the Opposition urged, provision should and must be made for a suitable snpply of labour to conduct the most important of our agricultural pursuits.

Mr. LESINA: There is heaps of available labour in Australia if they will only pay a decent wage and house them properly.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: As the leader of the Opposit.ion said, the labour that is available in the large citi0s is not suited for the canefields. 'l'his is not a capitalistic cry, but an economic cry. \Ve must not allow a big industry to be subordinated to a mere sentiment; and, if the labour is not here, we must take such steps as will insure its being obtained. The leader of the Opposition said that Dr. Maxwell has not accomplished much, and that many of the mills outside his control have done better than the mills under his control, and that the improvement in the financial position was only £9,000. :But it is really more than that, because, in addition to the profit of £9,523, there have been improvements effected in the mills to the extent of £30,972-necessary expenditure for additions to the mills-and those improvements have been paid for out of earnings.

Mr. PAGET: Are not all the mills in the same position?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Yes ; but prior to these mills coming under Dr. Maxwell's control they had failed to meet their interest and redemption payments, and any improvements that were made were paid for out of capital.

Mr. PAGET: Not in all instances. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

There were several instances in which mills now under the control of Dr. JY1axwell paid for improvements out of capital and not out of earnings.

Mr. J. LEAHY: Do you mean to say that, if Dr. Maxwell had had charge of the mills during the same time as the previous management, he would have made them pay?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: I do not say that he could have made them pay; but through his taking control the price of cane

[Hon. D. F. Denhark.

was reduced to such a figure as enabled them to pay off some of their obligations to the State.

Mr. J. LEARY: It was the improved seasons that enabled them to do that-not the man.

Mr. PAGET: And the high price of sugar. The SECRETARY FOR ~~GRICULTURE:

But for the control of Dr. J'VIaxwell, a larger sum would have gone into the pockets of the growers, and the indebtedness of the mills would not have been reduced at the same ratio. Then there has bem a sum of £10,078 expended in the payment of liabilities incurred in the 8hape of old loans, bank overdrafts, and so on, also the mills have paid to the Treasury since the cre.ttion of the bureau the sum of £51,973.

1\Ir. PAGE'r: "C"nfortunately, we are not allowed to get the particular•.

'l'be SEORE'l'ARY FOR AGRICULTURE: I suppose the particulars will be furnished in due course.

l'IIr. PAGET: It takes a very long time wherethe bureau is concerned.

The SECRI,;TARY FOR AGRICULTURE: It is worthy of note that of the ten mills affected by the Government two previously in arrears to the Treasury paid off those arrears-Racecourse and l\iarian. Two others have made special arrangements to meet their obligations-Plane Creek and Korth Eton. All four have met their interest and redemption as they became clue.

J\-fr. PAGET: But they are not under control. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

It is just as well that the House should be reminded of the statement made in the Press this morning concerning the visit of Dr. J'.Iaxwell to Marian mill. It is there stated that he was in JYiackay and was invited to be present atJ the meeting of shareholders, and this is what is said about it-

I \vas courteously invited to be present, and it turned out to be specially interesting to me. The meeting was, in fact, c~Jlecl to consider 1-rhat should be done with a surplus of £1D,OOO lying to the credit of the company. After several proposalF, it was ultimately resolved that the Treasurer be asked to receive the money, and apply it to part payment in advance of the mill's indebtedness to the Crown. I was asked by the meeting to put the matter befm·e the Treasurer, and I readily agreed. About three years ago I visited this mill, and considered with the directors what was to be done in the matter of their arrears to the Treasury, which then amounted to some £2,000. It was my duty, in pursuance of the policy of the Treasurer, toinsist that the price of cane be reduced, though it was much objected to by most of the directors and growers. )Iy last visit was at their invitation, and, with their handsome surplus in hand, they agreed that the right thing had been done three years ago.

Hon. R. PHILP: That is what Dr. Maxwell says, but what do the directors say ?

1\Ir. PAGET: He is advertising himself. JYfr. KENNA : That is a mill managed by cane,

growing directors-the system that he condemns so much.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: They were acting in conjunction with the Comptroller, and three years ago they objected to the reduction in the price of cane, but now they are glad they then agreed to it.

Hon. R. PHILP: They had to give the same as the other mills.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: But all the mills are in a better position than before they were taken over. Pleystowe has now passed out of his control.

Hon. E. B. FoRRES1': It never ought to have gone under his control. You know the history of that. The Queensland National Bank paid off all the arrears.

Mr. P AGET: Because they were afraid they would not be able to get their own debt paid otherwise.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: They covenanted to meet the obligations as they


accrued. That iu itself is a sufficient answer to the remarks that are made with reference to the action taken by the Government three years ago. I believe that all the lands that were not in use as sugar lands ba ve been cut out of the bond, so that the arrangements that have been made are in the interests of the growers, the mills, and the State. Unless the lands were used for growing sugar the mills could not be put to a profitable use, and it is interesting to know that in some districts the lands were valued not at their ordinary value, but in regard to their accrued value owing to the erection of a mill. I am sure that the hon. member for Bowen will be able to show, as far :;s his district is concerned, that the landowners have been able, having mortgaged their land to the mills, to realise those lands at a high price-up to £8 or £10.

Mr. MANN: £30 in some cases. The SECRETARY JfOR AGRICULTURE:

Which value was made by reason of the Crown erecting tt sugar-mill there, and the misfortune is that the canegrower is not the benefactor by that, but the land speculator.

JYfr. PAGET: \Vhat about the many small landowners who mortgaged?

TheSJWRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: It is quite natural that the inspection and control of the sugar business should be discussed during this debate, because it is reviewed by the Treasurer in his Financial Statement.

Mr. J. LEAHY: How ean we if we don't get the details? \V e cannot get them.

Hon. R. PHILP: \Vhere is Mr>. Briinnich's report? He made a report on all these mills.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: That was issued in January last.

Mr. PAGET: It has never been presented. Hon. E. B. FoRREST: Where is Dr. Max

wel!'s report? The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

On the Sugar Bureau? Hon. E. B. l!'oRREST : Either of them. TheSBCRETARY"FOR AGRICULTURE:

As regards the experimental stations, we cannot get that for some months to come, but that on the mills I suppose will be ready shortly.

Mr. PAGET: It should have been furnished with the Estimates.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: It is not my office, and I cannot tell; but I shall be able to furnish the answer if the hon. gentleman will put the question. My point just now is that the management of the sugar-mills is not a question of politics, but purely a question of bu"iness. That is what we want to make it.

lion. E. B. FoRREST : It is going to be a question of law very soon-you can see that sticking out. (Laughter.)

The SECRETARY :FOR AGRICULTURE: No, I do not think that it is going to be a question of law. All that we are seeking is to benefit the shareholders and the canegrowers.

Hon. E. B. FORREST: No fear-giving the lawyers a job.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: I know that the bona fide canegrower is well satisfied with the conduct of the mills. I am only able to speak of one mill from personal knowledge; I have come in contact with quite a number of those who are supplying Moreton miil, and my assurance from those canegrowers is that they are quite satisfied with the Government control.

Mr. PAGET: The deputationists did not say so last week.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: The 1905 report, which was furnished some time ago, indicated that the mortgaged lands under cane was 24,000 acres, and the land not mortgaged 11,000 acres. This year the land not mortgaged

would be producing fully one-third of the cane sent to the mill, so that the non-mortgaged land is a big factor in bringing the mills out of their difficultie,,

~Ir. KENNA : In some of the mills a lot more cane is grown on the non-mortgaged land than on the mortgaged land.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Just so; and those men growing cane on the nonmortgaged land are redeeming the mill, and that has been held in view.

Mr. PAGET: They never risk their property. TheSECRETARY:FORAGRICULTURE:

Mills that succeeded in their work without the intervention of the Government-! refer to the North Eton, Mourilyan, and l'\Iossman-they treated all canegrowers alike.

Mr. MANN : 2s. less on mortgaged lands on the JYiossman.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Mossman is an exception. JYfost mills that conducted their work successfuily paid the canegrowers the same price whether the land was mortgaged or not, but that was not done in the case of mills such as X erang a.nd 1\Ioreton, and those mills that were in difficulties-Mount Bauple, Gin Gin, Proserpine. Those mills differentiated their price. They paid different prices to a man growing cane whose land was under mortgage to what they did if the land was not mortgaged. And not only so, they also imposed certain charges for cane passing over their tramways. All that has been stopped. The same price is now paid to a canegrower whose land is under mortgage as to a man who is not under mortgage, and the same rate in conveying cane over the tramways. The m::m whose bnd is not mortgaged is the one who is redeeming the mill to a certain extent.

Mr. FoRSYTH : Making money for himself, too.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: I will show you how it is that at one mill in particular the man whose land is not mortgaged is paying a big price in redeeming the mill. The position IS that at the mills which are under the entire control of the Government as mortgagee in possession, the canegrowers appreciate the fairness and firmness with which business is conducted ; in fact, confidence has been established in the conduct of the mill. That is shown by the production, which has so enormously increased. \Vhen these mills were established the men who mortgaged their lands agreed to grow cane. But how many have done it? In many cases some of them have never grown cane, but have merely leased their land. And what will happen? By and by, when the mill is entirely redeemed, these men will have no share in the mill; they will have paid a big price for the land, and have secured for the landowner an interest in the mill which ought to belong to the man who grew the cane. Those are the facts, and the aim of the Government at the present time is to protect the canegrowers as against the land speculator. I want to know who are redeeming the Mm·eton mill ? Is it the mortgagors or the men whose land is not mortgaged? Most distinctly the mill is being redeemed, and eventually will become a solvent affair-perhaps independent altogether of the Government-mainly through the instrumentality of the man whose land is not mortgaged at all to the Crown. A mill is no good without the raw material, and the men who pledged their land in the first place undertook to grow cane. Probably

. the defect in the a:lministration formerly was that it was not insisted upon that men who mortgaged their land should grow the cane. If that had been insisted on these mills would never have got into the deplorable state in which we find them. Recognising that the canegroweris essential to the

Hon. D. F. Denham.]


mill, that the mill without the canegrower is so much scrapiron, there is no fear of the Government doing anything that will in any wise injure the canegrower. \Ve desire to nurse the canegrower in every possible way. The canegrower, whether growing for himself or not, is the man who puts up the value of the land. Take the Proserpine. The land was worth 10s. before the mill was put there. The speculator loads his land £5 or £10 an acre, bnt never grows cane. By and by, when the land is paid for, the unfortunate caneg-rower would have no interest in the mill, but the speculator will have the interest. We will take the Proserpine mill as a concrete instance-a loan arranged for the erection of a sugar-mill. There is a block of land suitable for canegrowing. Without the mill its normal value is £1, with the mill £5. The mortgagor should grow cane. He does not do it, but passes it on to the farmer who grows cane. The farmer makes his profit, and, by and by, when he has paid for his land the speculator has the share.

Hon. R. PHILP : He runs the risk. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

In the case of the Moreton mill, in 1905, thirty-: two shareholders grew cane, and produced 11,113 tons ; 191 non-shareholders grew cane, and produced 30,675 tons.

Mr. FoRSYTH: \Vas it on shareholders' land? The SECRETARY 1!'0R AGRICULTURE:

Some was, and some not-a great deal not. Mr. FoRSY1'H: The Moreton mill are getting

more cane than they can crush, 'rhe SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

The mill has reached its limit, but not with the aid of the shareholders, It has been with the aid of the non-shareholders. Now, it is quite a fair thing that this question of sugar-mills should be discussed purely as a matter of business, leaving the political aspect out altogether. At the present time counsel is being consulted as to the wisest course to take in regard to the mills for the protection of the canegrower-for his protection chiefly-and that which is right is that which will commend itself to the Government. The leader of the Opposition dwelt somewhat at length upon the aspect of federation, and I quite agree with the hon. gentleman that, so far as this State is concerned, federation has been a large disappointment. It has cost Queensland a great deal, but I do not know what benefit we have derived from it, and just how the financial problem is going to be solved is difficult to foresee, Several solutions have been offered. \Ve have the propositions of Sir George Turner, of Sir John :b'orrest, more recently the proposal of Mr. Harper, and again very valuable suggestions made in the Sydney lviorning Herald, One thing is clearthat we have been sorely deceived, \Ve quite anticipated we were going to receive back threefourths of our revenue, but this has never happened, During the year upon which we have entered it is expected that £83,000 less will come hack to us out of our proportion of three-fourth. I agree with the leader of the Opposition that it is not a fair proposition that we should accept a fixed snm in lien of our threefourths. Our population in the course of a few years may be doubled, and it may be mtturally inferred that our Customs receipts will increase.

Mr. HARDACRE : If the Treasurer's proposal is carried out we shall get an equivalent to a fixed sum. ·

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : The proposal most favoured by the Federal Parliament apparently is that we shall get a fixed sum returned. That will not suit our purposes. As our population increases our obligations will increase, and under the proposed arrangement

[Hon. D.F.Denkam.

all the benefit will go to the Commonwealth, and all the increased cost of administration will go to

the State, \Vith incmctbed popula[7.30 p,m,] tion we must make more provision

for schools, police, lunatic asylums, and other charitable institutions. That being so, I do not think it would be a reasonable thing to ask Que~nsland to accept a fixed proportion in substitution of the three-fourths, We see that there is a proposal to amend the Federal Constitution so that the Commonwealth may hold the whole of certain Customs revenue, doubtless with the object of distributing it as an old age pension, J\Ir. Deakin most emphatically stated at the Premiers' Conference in Sydney that the Federal Parliament would not be content with one-fourth of the Customs revenue after the period of the Braddon clause has expired. We can just make up our minds for that. The Federal Parliament proposes to have a much bigger slice than they have been getting in the past out of the Customs revenue,

Mr. J. LEAHY : What does Mr. Deakin know about it, \Vhere will he be when that period expires?

'rhe SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: He is in the :b'ederal Partiament at the present time, and it is important that this question should be well ventilated in order that the electors of Queensland should be aroused, and send down men to represent them in the Federal Parliament who will consider Q•1eensland in the matter of this Braddon clause,

.l'llr, FORSYTH: \Vhat is your idea? The SECRETARY FOR AGRICuLTURE :

My idea is this : This clause emanated from the Federal Convention of 1897. That convention decided that the Braddon clause should be continued in perpetuity, and I think that should he enforced, That was the proposition upon which New South \Vales voted, upon which Victoria voted, and upon which the referendum in Tasmania took place, w bile Queensland and \V estern Australia were the only States that voted for the ten years.

Mr. HARDACRE: How will it affect you? The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

It would be a serious thing to accept a fixed sum, Last year we got £850,000 from the :b'ederal Government.

::VIr, FORSYTH: You got £8,000 more than your three-fourths last year.

Mr. J, LEAHY :You got more th~tn your threefourths since federation started,

'rhe CHAIRMAN : Order, order ! TheSECl-l,ETARYFORAGRICULTURE:

It cannot be overlooked that Queensland depended very largely upon her Customs revenue in the past. \Vhen we agreed to enter into the federaJ compact, we understood that the federal authoritiee would derive their revenue from Customs ; we nevPr dreamt that they would derive it from direct taxation. New South \V ales urged the ten years limit to the Braddon section, because of the awkwardness of having to raise four times as much revenue as the Federal Parliament would require.

Mr. HARDACRE : That does not solve it, The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

It does not solve it, but it is a safeguard, because we may yet be thrown back on direct taxation, If anyone can show me where we can derive sufficient from· direct taxation to meet our obligations, then I would like to be informed. \Ve have an interest bill of £1,500,000 to meet every year, and we cannot derive all that amount from direct taxation,

Mr. HARDACRE : There is a solution required, but that is not it.,

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: The solution is that there should be a perpetuation of the Braddon clause, or some check on


expenditure on the part of the Federal House. A Bill was introduced into the J<'ederal Parliament last week to amend the J<'ederal Constitution, evidently with the object of providing old age pensions and securing to themselves the total revenue from certain Customs dues. \Vhy should they not at the same time make provision for the perpetuation of the Braddon clause, or, at any rate, to protect the weaker States which in the past have been so largely dependent upon their Customs for their revenue?

Mr. J. LEAHY : There are very few people willing to take away any power from themselves.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : The Federal Parliament is considered by the general taxpayer as a q-ood institution. \Vhy? Because they are not direct taxers. But they me throwing back on the States all the arduousness of deriving a sufficiency of income to meet their requirements. \Ve cannot overlook the fact that the federal authorities have acted unfairly to Queensland. Take the position in regard to their officers. Although they get all the benefits of State education, and the protection 0£ rights and property, they contribut.e nothing towards our revenue by way of income tax.

Mr. J. LEAHY : Is not that case s1<b Judice? The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

There is an appeal to the Privy Council, and the federal authorities have stepped in to defend the case. Mr. Reirl stated-and Mr. Deakin practically also said the same-that if this case goes against the States they will take steps to collect a certain amount from their officers either by taxi:u.g thCi.J.i thGi' ... J.Scl"v"G3, OL thi~vugh GiiJ. «.:il.18U.dii10ll~ of the Constitution, and make them liable to pay income tv,x. Another question which they have tr<o•ctted in rather a cavalier fashion is that of charging duty on State imports. New South \Vales took action, and succeeded at the Full Court. The federal authorities gave notice of appeal to the Privy Council, but before the Privy Council case came on the High Uourt was established, and they withdrew the appeal and the whole thing lapsed. Now, I think that Australians, as a whole, have profound respect for the law; they are a law-abiding community, and here is the highest Parliament in Australia flouting a Full Court decision. The Full Court decided that imports for State works should notJ be subject to taxation, and yet taxation is being collected all the time. I think we are not likely to get fair play from the Federal Parliament unless there be a most pronounced emph<ttic protest from the State of Queensland and other States.

Mr. J. LEAHY: What about the duty they charged Queensland for rails? Has that be>n settled yet?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: No. They treated it very cavalierly. No doubt the intention is to so subordinate the States that by and by there will be unification, and no State Parliaments at all. The very idea of this question of imposing duty on State import~ for works being brought before the present H1gh Court seems almost ludicrous in view of what Mr. Barton said before he became a judge of the High Court. He said-

The decision mean:- that the Ccmmonwealth cannot collect duties on State imports. rrhat means, in effect, that there are seven authorities controlling the Cus. toms, that the fiscal policy of the Commonwealth can be set aside to a large extent by any one State. It is inconceivable that the framm·s of the Constitution meant that such a thing should be possible. And the pecnliar thing is that the revenues of the States are not altered by a penny-piece. for the money, alter collection, is handed hack to the State by the Federal Treasury,

Mr. J. LEAHY : \Vhat did they collect it for, then?

The SJWRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: They got one-fourth of it, and we got threefourths. That was a statement made by Sir Edmund Barton before he was raised to the High Court bench, so I think that a question of that sort would be far better settled by the Privy Council than by the High Court. For many reasons it seems to me that the safer thing for Queensland is to have an assurance with regard to the Bmddon clause. The proposition made by lVIr. Harper is a very attractive one, but I hardly think the leader of the Opposition is correct in saying that Mr. Harper propose.d that in a short period of time the whole of the State debts should be paid off. I understand that Mr. Harper's proposition is that up to the time of the Braddou clause-clause 87-Queensland and the other States will pay to the federal authorities the amount of shortage in regard to the intereo;t on the national debt. Mr. Harper's proposal is that if the amount of Queensland's interest on the national debt amounted to £1,564,415, and the average ~,nnual amount received from the Commonwealth since federation was £828,165, the amount Queensland should pay would be £736,250. That amount would vary from year to year, and the obligation would continue until the cessation of the ' Braddon clause. Until that time arrives Queensland should make np the difference between her three-fourths share of the Customs revenue and the amount of interest on our national debt, not only for the old loans, but for loans locally raised. Then for thE> twenty year.s following the termination of the Braddon clause period, the amounts to be paid by the Commonn·cwlth Cl' rccc~-....~cd by it frcrr. th~ St?wtes ~"h01._:ld. be reduced each year by 5 per cent., so that in 1931 the whole thing would pass over to the Commonwealth. I think thatJ by 1931 our population will have very vastly increased, that our per capita indebtedness will have very much diminished, and that our interest in the Commonwealth will be much greater than it is now. And if it iR not possible to get out of the federation, then I think that Queensland must safeguard herself in some pronounced manner so that our revenue shall not be interfered with. I very much appreciate many of the utterances of the leader of the Opposition, and it will be to my interest to do all that I can to promote the mining industry, the pastoral industry, and the agricultural industry, and certainly in nowise do anything that will be inimical to the best interests of the State.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! Mr. P AG ET : It is not possible, nor do I

wish, to follow the Minister who has just resumed his seat in all the arguments that he has made in connection with the Treasurer's Financial Statement. Before passing a few remarks on this subject I would like to say that I am quite sure that all members on this side of the House will agree with the regrets expressed bv the leader of the Opposition this afternoon when he said that he was exceedingly sorry to find the Treasur~r, through indisposition, was unable to be in his place this evening. (Hear, hear !) I will go a step further, and say that a gentleman occupying a position like that of Premier should take very great care of his health for ' the reason that it is quite necessary he should be in his place in the House to conduct the business of the Government. It would be very much better for the conduct of business if the Premier would take the advice of his friends and lie up a little while in order to recover his health, so that we may have the pleasure of seeing him here in as short a time as possible.

Mr. J. LEAHY: Is he the only man in the State who is ill?

Mr.Paget.]


l\1r. PAGET: The Hon. Mr. Kidston is the leader of the Government, and it is to him we have to look to conduct the business of this House.

An Hoxo<:RABLE ME)!BER: He may not be there long.

.Mr. PAGET: As to whether he will be in that position very long or not, is for his followers, not for me, to say. During the course of his speech the Secretary for Agriculture brought in the question of the central mills and the work that Dr. :Maxwell did in Melbourne with respect to the sugar, bonus in the future, an~ he made those references owing to a remark whwh was made by the hon, member for JYioreton the other evening when the Speaker was in the chair. I must confe"s that I have been unable to_ find in. Dr. Maxwell's rather profuse remarks that he d1d actually recommend a £4 per ton e;<cise. There is one thing very certain, and that IS that Dr. 1Iaxwell some years ago was in favour of sugar being grown by coloured labour in this State; that was when our Government was in power; but ,>,t the present moment when another Government is in power he says he believes that white labour can do the work.

::'.Ir. WOODS: He is in favour of black labour now, but is not game to say so.

::\Ir. P AGET : I do not wish to go into this matter very fully. But as to whether Dr. Maxwell thinks sngar can or cannot be profitably grown ~y wh_ite labour in Xorth Queensland, I· sJ:.ould J.ust hl;e to re~er to a report of an interVIew w1th h1m, wlnch was published in the 11I ackay JJ!Iereury of the 21st of August last. In his statement to the interviewer he was giving Mackay a hft with respect to the suitability of its lands for sugar-growino- which is rather contradictory of what he sakJ five years ago in his first report on the sugar industry of Queensland. However, I a,m very glad to find that after he has gained experience in this matter he is able to say that the lands in the Mackay district are good for sugar-growing. It is very unfortunate for a number of residents of that district five ye:trs ago that he did not have the knowledge then that. he ha~ no":· The wording of his remarks m the mterv1ew to which I have referred is as usual a little involved. The doctor says-

It is further considered that the production of the Xor~hern districts may become largely reduced, due possibly to causes that are sure to operate in the near future.

In the first place he says " due possibly to causes," and in a word or two afterwards he says " are sure to operate in the near future."

From these circumstances we may fairly assume ~hat the l\f3:ckay district can be looked to, to have an l:t;tcrease of 1ts ~reduction, in order that the consump~ twn of Australia may be supplied within its own borders.

The only inference I can draw from that is that Dr. Maxwell still has very great doubts as to whether sugar-growing can be profitably carried out by means of white labour in the Northern parts of the State. He goes on to say-

'\Vith the knowledge of extensive areas of lands moRt suitable for sugar production in this district I foresee that the :l>Iackay district may be required and will be able to bring up its production of sugar to somewhere in the region of 70,000 tons, this is provided the labour :power is settled and made a permanent factor on the land. The veriest tyro knows that it is absolutely impossible to produce a bit of sugar, or a bale of wool, or a bushel of wheat, and put it on the :nark et wi~hout labour being a permanent factor m the busmess. I have read that extract in reply to an interjection by the hon. member for Bowen, made when the :Minister was addressing

the Committee. With regard to the matter of the excise recommendation, I had in my hand a copy of Dr. Maxwell's report when the :Minister WitS speaking. It is really too long to quote in extenso, but in order to emphasise what I said a few minutes ago-that some years ago Dr. Maxwell said it was decidedly necessary to have coloured labour for the profitable production of sugar iu this State, and that after having had experience here, and cert>tin changes have taken place in the Government, he has altered his views-I shall read the last paragraph of his report. This paragraph, which the Minister did not read, is as follows :-

The undertaking of substituting white for coloured labour, and of placing a tropical industry upon a basis of white production, constit,ntes a great experiment. The ex-r>eriment, in its execution, t,raverses natural and economic conditions that have to be consulted at every step. So far as the persons engaged in the industry are a factor. if they cannot be in(iuced to aid the experiment by giving it a full and unbiased trial. means may be proposed to secure their co-operation by pressure.

An hon. member says "Hear, hear," and that is the kind of argument which is being used by this man all the time. It was used with the Commonwealth Government, and they were practically told that if certain men who had been growing cane all their lives in the Northern part of the northernmost State of t':Je Commonwealth chose to pit their knowledge against theirs, then those men should be either compelled to abandon their plantations or submit to pressure. And the same argument is being used in regard to the central sugar-mills-the shareholders have either to submit to pressure in connection with foreclosures that are thought necessary, or out they have to go. The doctor goes on to say-

The paramount demand of the "experiment" is that it shall succeed, and this requires that the fullest details of its naturr, of its mode of operation, and of its ultimate probable effects. shall be understood i and with these, the greatest patience, discrimination, and care in carrying the experiment out to its end.

The Minister, while presenting a very fair statement of the affairs of those mills, and also of the matters in connection with the new bonus proposals, was evidently under the impression that the increaRe of the excise duty would not result in a decreased price of cane for farmers, which is an erroneous impression. At the present time the value of a ton of raw sngar to the producer is, roughly speaking, £12 per ton. The refiner pays the exciRe of .£3 per ton, and that practically means that a ton of raw sugar to the producer is worth £15, if he had to pay the excise. But here is the position : The price of cane varies frcm 10s. per ton at certain mills in the South, to .£1 Os. 10d. at the Mulgrave and Mossman mills. Those prices are being paid under present conditions. If the market price of sngar next year is the same as it is this year, this excise enables the refiner to say to the producer : ''Your ton of sugar is worth .£15, but I pay the excise, which is .£4 per ton." This would leave .£11 a ton to the manufacturer as against the .£12 per ton he is receiving this year. '!.'hat means a decrease of 2s. or 2.s. 6d. in the price of the cane that it takes to make a ton of sugar, according to tbe locality where the cane is grown, and according to the quantity of cane it takes to make a ton of sugar. So that, althongh the white grower is to receive the extra £1 as an increased bonus, he will not be one whit better off, for the reason that he loses the full value of the increased bonus in the lessened price the mill pays for the cane.

Mr. MANN : But the coloured labour grower will be worse off, and that is what we are aiming at.

Mr. P AGET: The interjection of the hon. member is very pertinent, for that is exactly what was aimed at when the excise was recom-

Supply. [ 4 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 551

mended at £4 per ton, so as to reduce the protection to sugar grown by coloured labour, not only in Queensland, but in New South \Vales, from £4 to £3.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE; \Vho recommended it? Dr. ::Yiaxwell?

Mr. P AG ET: I do not know that Dr. Maxwell recommended it. As a matter of fact, it was the Labour party in the Commonwealth Parliammat who recommended it. They said they would have such conditions that the coloured labour sugar-grower in Queensland could not live, if they could help it. There is one point which has been overlookBd by the Minister, and that is that the increased bonus next year carrie• the condition that does not apply to the bonus at the present time, which io that even if a farmer has grown his cane by white labour, has cut it with white labour, and has performed all the other conditions imposed, the Government can turn round and say, "I refnse to pay your bonus because you have not paid the statutory rate of wages.''

:2\Ir. KEXl'!A: Your 2rgument amounts to this -that the monopolists squeeze the excise out of the growers.

::\Ir. l'AGET: \Vhat monopolists? 1Ir. KlmNA: The Colonial Sugar Refining

Company. Mr. PAGET: There is no monopoly about it.

The price that is paid for sugar is the market price and something above what other

[15 p.m.] sugars can be imported for. The Colonial Sugar Refining Company

have always paid, to my knowledge-having dealt with them to the extent of hundreds of thousands of nounds in the past-have always paid for Quee~1sland-grown sugars a somewh'at higher price than they could import sugars of similar quality and net titre for from Java.

11r. KEXXA: They are philanthropists. Mr. PAGET: There is no philanthropy ahout

it. It is a pure business proposition on their part. They say, "\Ve desire to handle 120,000 or 130,000 tons of sugar in our refineries every year, and we would rather make up the surplus over and above the r1uantity we can grow and manuf,cture ourselves from Queensland and Xew South \Vales than import it." That has always been their position. There is no philanthropy about it, and there is no squeezing about it. The Colonial Sugar Refining Company always deal with their clients in the most liberal manner.

Mr. HARilACRE : \Vhy don't they buy imported sugars instead of paying a higher price?

Mr. P AGET : The hon. member cannot follow my argument, not being conversant with the business of growing and manufacturing sugar. 'The Colonial Sugar Refining Company and other refining companies, who, naturally, handle nearly the whole of the sugars that are consumed in the Commonwealth-and it is far better to have our sugars manufactured here oy white men, whose wages are exchanged for other goodo produced in the Commonwealth ,than to import sugars that are r<efined by Messrs. Butterfield, Swire, and Co. in Hongkong, where the whole of the wages are J;aid to Chinamen- the Colonial Sugar Refinmg Comprmy have always treated their clients in a liberal manner, and have inva.riably paid a somewhat higher price for our sugars than they could have obtained similar sugars for from .Java.

1fr. MANN : How is it that they pay a lower price for cane supplied to their mills than i,• paid by adjoining central mills?

Mr. P AGET: The hon. member is trying to draw. me off the track. That is a very big questiOn, and I should be very pleased to explain the matter, but I am afraid it would take too long to do so now. However, I would ask the

hon. member if it is not a fact that the central mills which are not under the contra! of Dr. 11axwell are paying a higher price than the mills that are under his control? \Vith regard to what the Minister said about the labours of Dr. Maxwell in connection with the bonus business in Melbourne, I would like to refer to what the Treasurer says in his Financial Statement. On page 7 he says-

The coming substitution of tvhite for black labour in this industry is at prrC3ent the cause of some disquietude to many of those engaged in it. It is, of course, impossible to hope that the whole of the black labour emvloyed in this industry can be removed, and replaced by white labour, without danger of a certain measure of derangement. But that the change will ultimately be succr.;;sfully accomplished seems more likely when we consider that in 1902 there were only 1,521 cane farmers who employed white labour, and that they produced only 12,254 tons of sugar; whereas in 1906 it is estimated that there are 3,393 farmers who employ white labour and will produce 125,000 tons of sugar.

I want to say a word to the white men who are engaged it1 the industry. Some short time back an hon. member interjected that the canegrowers of Queensl,nd had not made a,ny great effort to bring about the altered conditions with regard to labour. The Treasurer, who cannot be charged with being, a friend o~ black !.thou;, says that there are now 3.393 white grower' 111 the State who are trying to bring about that change.

Mr. ::\1.\NN: After waiting for four years. Mr. PAGET: Surely the hon. member must

know, as a man with a great amount of common sense, that it is impossible to change the cond1· tions in regard to a tropical industry from coloured to white labour in twelve months. If thp change had been brought about in ten years, reasonable men might have said that a very great stride forward hn,d been taken. \Vhether the policy is right or wrong is not for me to say. Of course, it is utterly impossible for me to convince the hon. member, so that, perhaps, I had better not try any furtber. \Vhether the growers in the far North tried to bring about the changed conditions three or four years ago, or whether they are trying to bring them about now, I ""Y' after a very long trip through all the sugar districts, that I believe they are making a determined effnro to honestly try the experiment with white labour, and I am now going to ask the white workers in the industry to assist them in making the experiment a success. (Hear, hear!)

Mr. KENNA : Don't you think they are doing their share?

Mr. PAGET: I have a reason for asking that, because we read in the newspapers at times of trouble in the canefields.

Mr. \Voons: Exaggerated, most of them. ::\Ir. P AGET: I do not wish to enter into this

question with any political bias, or from any other point of view than that of the interests of the white people engaged in the industry. Even now with 5,000 kanakas at work in the industry, there are rumours of trouble in the canefields. Through this Committee and through Hansard, as one who has taken a very great interest in the white workers, and as one who employed a very large number of them for many years in the sugar industry, I am going to ask them whether they will not put on their considering caps and ask themselves whether, if they want too much, they may not cut the ground from nnder their own feet. I believe that the canegrowers have made an honest attempt to meet the altered con· ditions, and it remains now for the workers to do their share by backing up the canegrowers, especially as the wages that are being paid are what the industry can afford. There seems to be very little question about it.

Mr.Paget.]


Mr. KENNA : Most of the trouble has been in the Bundaberg district, where the wages were exceptionally low. There has been no trouble elsewhere.

Mr. P AGET: There has been trouble in various places. The.re have been minor troubles in connection with the pc .. yment of the bonus to the white workerF, and that has been overcome by the growers agreeing to include the bonus as a part of their weekly wagee, quite irrespective of whether they stay for the whole season or not. The industry 1s worth £2,000,000 a year to this State. and the greater part of that amount is paid in wages. Provided the conditions remain such that the industry can afford to pay white men's wages, white men will earn the greater part of that large sum. It is pra~tically in their hands to say whether the industry shall remain a permanent factor in this State or not. "With regard to the v.1luation of mill lands, the Secre· tary for Agriculture baid that the whole of the benefit was g·oing to the original owners of the lands, or "speculator," as he called them, and not to the 1nills or to the suppliers of cane. Perhaps there is another view f o take. The original owners of these lands pledged their securitiPs to obtain that mill. I know of many instances where the lands having been cut up, the farmer who has purchased the land on terms, receives with the land that he has purchased, a certain number of shares in the mill. so that he becomes a particirJating shareholder when the mill is eventually in their hands.

Mr. KENNA : £2,000 out of £60,000 is stated to belong to farmers, and £50,000 odd to land· owners.

Mr. P AGET : All I can say is that it was within the landowners' rights to cut these lands up, and sell them to those men who desired to purchase-they were not compelled to-without any shares in the mill at all ; so that after all is said and' done it is somewhat of a concession. I can quite understand that part of the scheme of this foreclosure is to squeeze out the man who originally pledged his securities to obtain the mill, in order to practically give the land away to the men who came in afterwards.

The SECRETARY l<'OR AomcULTURE: The mill, not the land.

Mr. PAGET: The hon. member f0r i\Ioreton the other nig-ht said that Dr. 1\faxwell had told the farmers that they should own the lands. As to whether land sales carry shares in the mills or not, an instance came under my own notice only some few months ago. I happen to have an interest in eome land not many miles from the Nambour mill, and an adj,:,ining piece of land was ';JOrtgv.g-ed to the Treasurer as part of the secunty of the Moreton Central Mill. The owner of that piece of land offered to sell it to me, and the words he used to me were-" The price that you will pay fot• this land will be covered by paid .. up shares in the Moreton mill."

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \VORKS : You do not take a share now.

Mr. KENNA : 'What about the land leased to a farmer which he puts in-it carri€s no shares?

Mr. PAGET: That is another question. \Ve now dE·part from the question of the small man stepping in and buying portions of tbe original large blocks, to the leaseholder. The leaseholder is very often in this position-that he has no means to start canegrowing- himself. The landowners say, "I will give you a pi~ce of land, with a royalty o£ ls. per ton, and find you in rations." That happens in nine cases out of ten. The Minister said that the Treasurer would not do anything to hurt the canegrower, and I will refer to that by and by. I would like to '•ay with regard to the Financial Statement that the present Treasurer is an exceedingly lucky man to be able to present such a Stateml3nt to the House,

[Mr. Paget.

and must have felt great pleasure in announcing a surplus of £127,000, although, as he candidly says, he made a miscalculation of over £170,000.

The SECRETARY J<'OR PuBLIC \VoRKS: That is owing- to the Federal Treasurer.

Mr. PAGET: I would like to state that in 1903 when the late Treasurer calculated to have a deficit of ,£8,000, the present Treasurer, when he came into office, presented a new Financial Statement, in which he said the late Treasurer was altogether wrong, and the deficit would be £1\.ll,OOO, but at the end of the twelve months the deficit was only £12,000. But, fortunately for himself and the country, the Treasurer has been making miwalcubtions on the right side ail the time, and I must congratulate him that they are on the right side. I would like here to say that it would probably be wise if some of our lands were sold by auction. \Ve have a surplus of £127,000, but in some years it will be impossible for us to make both ends meet unless sales of land are made in order to meet the deficit on our railways in connection with the interest bill. It is a very legitimate way of u.pplying the pro· ceeds of the sale of land, and it is not altogether right that the present inhabitants of the States should be made to bear the inevitable lo"s on the railways that are built to open up our immense territory. At the sfune time I think this parag-raph in the speech is one of the most gratifying features of the Budget. \Ve are told that people are flocking into the State, and also that very htrge areas of land are being. taken up. \Ve all know that every man who goes on the land must produce something and consume something, which in the end must benefit the Treasurer, and if the present good season continues the volume of trade will increase by leaps and hounds, and when trade increases then the Treasurer has quite an easy billet; his revenue simply flows in and there is no trouble about it. There is a vastly increased net income from the railways, which has risen from £1 Ss. Sd. per cent. in 1901·2 to £2 lGs. 5d. per cent. on the capital invested in 1905 .. 6. This, of course, has been largely brought about by the economies which were effected bv the late Minister for Railways. We are spending more money on the railways than was spent-and rightly so, if times improve. Tbe revenue, owing to the good seasons, has increased by something like £350,000 in three years. Our ne" revenue trom the railways has morL than doubled itself in three years. lt is a matter of congratulation th:tt the people on the lands of the State have so much more produce for the railways to carry. I do not know the reason for keeping such a very large balance to the credit of the loan fund-some £866,000.

The Ho;IE SECRETARY: Not a bad idea if you can manage it.

Mr. P AG ET : But it would be a better idea if the Treasurer was getting s0me interest for the money. I don't know whether the arrangement with the Queensland National Bank enabled him to get some interest on the large amounts. Now, when this House passes railways, we naturally think that before we meet the next year, a large portion of those lines will have been built, but when we come back we find that in one or two cases the lines have been scarcely started. The Treasurer refers to agriculture, but he does not say much with regard to the labour supply. I emphasise and endorse what the leader of the Opposition said-that it is extremely likely that it will be necessary to resort to immigration to supply the labour for the sugar fields. The sugar industry is losing perhaps 7,000 or 8,000 of its labourers at the end of the year. Although there may be only 4,000 or 5,000 Polynesians, there are a large number of other aliens engaged, and if the sugar .. growers.

Supply. [ 4 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 55S

throughout the North make up their minds to go in for white labour, all the othPr aliens will have to leave; so we shall want about 7,000 or 8,000 men to replace those who are going out of the industry. I felt disappointed when I saw that £5,000 only was placed on the Estimates for the purpose of immigration this ye'1r. Possibly the Trea "urer, or the Thiinister for Labour, has not had time to make full inquiries in the southern colonies as to the labour available there next year for the su;;ar industry, hut I would impress upon him the necessity of making these inquiries very quickly; for, if the labour supply is not there when the cane crop needs cutting, then the crop must rot on the ground, and be not only a loss to the producer, but also to the State. If 100,000 tons of cane are not cut and turned into sugar, then the money reprc' sented thereby is absolutely lost to the ::-ltate. In connection with the dairying industry, I was

very pleased to hear this afternoon [8.30 p.m.] that it is probable that ~ weekly

steamsh;p service will be inaugurated very shortly-that is, a direct steamship service to Brisbane, with cold storage; hut it would be very much better, in my opinion, especially for Central and North Queensland, if arrangements could be made to reinstate the Torres Straits service. (Hear, hear!) The senior member for Townsville spoke at length upon that tbiR afternoon, but I wish to bring this fact before the members of Committee this evening : That is that in the North of Qneensland, inland from C:<irns, we have tens of thousands of acres of some of the finest country in the world. IHear, hea1· !) It is a mnst beautiful climate-a climate that I am sure it wonld be a pleasure for anyone to live in. I will not say to die in, because it would be almost impossible to die there.

Mr. BARBER: I thought it was too hot to work there.

Mr. PAGET: I am speaking of the Atherton district, which is at an elevation of 2,500 feet above the sea level, and contains splendid scrub lands. I? connection with this dairying business I would hke to say that the Cairns people are not sleeping on it. They formed an aseociation some few months ag-o with a capital of £10,000-one man put £2,000 into it himself-for the purpose of importing dairy cattle into the district with the object of pushing that industry ahead. Now, it will be no use for these people to use their enterprise and their money if the means are not there all the t.imR t.o export t.hjs peri8hable product, and the best way of exporting it would be by the institution of the route ~·id Torres Str:.its

Mr. MANN: They will have a bigger market when the Etheridge Railway is built.

Mr. P AGET : I can quite understand that when the Etheridge Railway is built that there will be a very much larger market for the butter produced in the Cairns and Atherton districts than at present, but I want to see sornething more. I want to see the production of butter and other perishable goods reach such a pitch in l'\ orth Queensland that they will have to look for over-sea markets for it. In connection with the Estimates of revenue and expenditure fur the coming year, I notice that there is no mention of the remission of the little tax on the Government SaYings Bank accounts. The tax certainly presses on those who are not very well off, and it only brings in £4,000 a year. I see the income tax exemptions are to be raised to £160, with an exemption of £120 on all incomf's between £Hl0 and £200. I think it wc>uld be a much better thing, if the Income Tax Act is to be again amended, that every individual in the State should have a certain exemption. 'Whether the amount is £100 or £160 is a matter of adjustment as to what the Treasurer can afford. It is not at all right that

a man who earns £300should have an exemption of £100, and a man who earns £305 should have no exemption at all, because, when all is said and done, the men who earn £300 or £400 a year are not always the wealthy people that we are led to believe by those who say that certain men only earn £3 a week or 10;;. a day. Very often the man earning £400 or £500 a year is practically in a worse position than the man getting £3 a week ; for thi,, reason : that the man earning a big salory--say he is a public servant-has to dress in a way which costs hin1 a great deal n1ore rn0ney than the man earning £3 a week. I certainly think the exemption should reach above the £300 a year limit. I have so fm· passed over certain references in theflc staten1ents to some central mill' which the Treasurer has control over. Before I touch on the details of this subject, I am ,;iven to understand both by the leader of the Opposition and also by the Minister for Agriculture, who spoke this ;tfternoon, that I am expected to enter into full details of this question, which is rather trying to me, and before I have done with it I am afraid that I shall weary the Committee. I may say that I have taken considerable trouble in looking up the AuditorGeneral's reports for the last nine years in conwith these central mills, and although I must weary the Committee, owing to the rules of the House, by reading these fi6'ures, I think it is advisable that I should get them published in Hansard, because hon. members will probably find that there is something in them which they would like to refer to by and by. I will also preface what I have to say by reminding hon. members that in connection with the statements that I have drawn out, I have tried to make them as correct as it is possible for any statements extending over such a term of yea.rs to be. The statements in connection with the Auditor-General's reports from year to year have been exceedingly full and very accurately prepared, and are such that no one can cavil at at all. Naturally, when these mills first came into operation full details were not entered into, and it is extremely difficult for anybody to pick up desired information, bnt, as I said before, the information, so far as I have been able to get it, is absolutely correct. I would like first to refer to the Treasurer's Sttttement. On page 6 he says-

This favotwable result is emphasised when we cam. pare the amount paid to the Treasury by these six. mm~--

I have only taken five of the mills myself, becttuse Pleystowe is now out of the hands of the Treasurer. He g-oes on-

This favourable result is emphasised when we compare the amount paid to the Treasur.v by these six mills from their establishment in 1895-6 to the 31st December, 1903, with the amount paid since-

Amount paid by present management since lst January, 1904 12~ years) ... £51,973 12 6

Amount paid from 1895-6 to 31st December, 1903, by previous managements (8~ years) £28,220 15 3

It is only necessary to look at these figures to recognise how completely the policy of the Government in regard to these mitis has been justified.

The Treasurer, in the paragraph previous to that, says-

This shows an improvement in the financial position of these mills of £9,532 Os. lOd., as compared with the position when the bureau was created. The improvement would have been much greater but for the fact that a sum of £30,972 has been exvended on necessary additions, renewals, and extraordinary mmntenancej the latter due largely to neglect by the previous managements, and £10,078 expended in payment of old liabilities which previous managements incurred in the shape of outside loans, bank overdrafts, and mill trade accounts.

Mr.Paget.]

ii54 Suppl,y. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

In making that statement, especially in the comparison between the amounts paid to the Treasurer by these mills in two and a-half years-or practically in two years, or two crushing seasons, and during the prPvious eight and a-half years-the 'rreasurerdoes not take into consideration the fact either of the very much better seasons that we have been enjqyingthepast year or two, and a matter which is a very much bigger factor-the very greatly increased price of sugar which the mills have enjoyed for the past three or four years, especially the last two years, B.nd that is a point upon which I am going to base my argument. I hope to place a perfectly clear statement in connection with these mills, now controlled by the Treasurer, before the Committee, and I hope that the peoj)le who are interested in these mills will be able to see what they have done in each year for nine years, and how they sland at th8 present time, or should stand at the present time. On page 5 the Treasurer, in his speech under the heading " Central Sugar Mills," has the following :-

The policy of the Govel'nment in connection with central sugar-mills has been ampty justified by results. Ten mills altogether have been affected by that policy; of these, two previously in arrears to the Treasury have paid off those arrears, and two others entered into special arrangements to meet their obligations, and all four have since then met their instalments of intere;.,t and redemption when due. The remaining six mills were taken ovel' by the Government and placed under the control of Dr. C\1axwell. On the 4th of July last one of them, with the assistance of the Queensland Xational Bank, paid off all its arrears to 30th June, amounting to £8,633 9s. 8d., the bank undertaking to meet all future payments as they become due.

The hon. gentleman referred to an interview that the Courie1· had with the Comptroller of the Sugar Bureau evidently yesterday. It is headed "The Sugar Industry. Dr. Maxwell Interviewed. Extensions at Mackay." And the Minister quoted this-

About three years ago I visited the l\Iarian 111ill, and considered with the dit·ectors 1vhat was to be done in the ·matter of their arrears to the Treasury, which then amounted to some £2,000. It was my duty, in pursuance of the policy of the 1'reasurcr, to insist that the price of cane be reduced, though 1t \Va'' much objected to by most of the directors and growers. :'lfy lhst visit was at their invitation, and with their hands(nne surplus in band they agreed that the right thing had been done three years ago. \V ell, on the 21st of last month Dr. Maxwell, when interviewed by a representative of the 1l£ackay Mercury, was asked-

You were at the 3-larian n1ill meeting the other day, though the Government has now no control?

Yes, the directors are endeavouring to work in harmony with the Treasury in all their proceedings. I was present at the extraordinary meeting of the shareholders last \Veek. There is really nothin~ to be said excepting that tbe M a.rian directors are going U110U the lines which show that they are determined to keep the business upon a sonnd business basis, and, further, that tbey realise their full responsibilities to the Treasury. This decision to liquidate in advance a large portion of their indebtedness to the 'rreasury is a wise act, and a proof of the llnes upon which they intend to go, and, as far as the Treasury is concerned, I am sat1sfied that it may be shown to be to their advantage to deal with their present surplus as they have decided.

The Minister made a great dm;l of capital out of the fact that some three years ago Dr. Maxwell assumed control of the Marian mill, and insisted upon reducing the price of cane. But what happened? They did not remain under the control of the Sugar Bureau one moment longer than was necessary. They only owed £2,000 tor arrears of interest, and they promptly paid that off, and got from under the control of Dr. Maxwell. The £10,000 profits they have made since they took complete control of their own business enabled them to go to the Treasurer and my, "We want to pay off £10,000 of the principal, and will do so on condition that you

[Mr.Paget.

allow us interest on that sum," and they were able to do that several years before the money would become due.

Mr. FUDGE: The canegrowers ought to have got that.

Mr. P AGET: If the canegrowers are the owners ot the mill, they are actually paying away their own money. If there is one mill in this State that was purely co-operative at its inception, it is the J\Iarian mill. I am not prepared to give the exact areas mortgaged, but I know that, speaking generally, there were a large number of very small holdings mortgaged in con· nection with that mill. In a debate such as this hon. members are placed in such a very awkward por;ition in not having in their possession the report of the operations of the Sugar Bureau for the year 1905. I hope the ::\Iinister will take 't note of this matter. I do not wish to cavil in any shape or form at Dr. iVIaxwell as Dr. Maxwell, but I would point out that the heads of other departments use every effort to place the report on the working of their departments before this House at the earliest possible 1nornent.

~'m Ho~OURABLE :iYIE;I!BER: \Vhat is the reason Dr. Maxwell does not submit his report promptly?

Mr. PAGET: The only reason I know of is that he rather delights in flouting members of Parliament.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Is that so? Mr. P AG ET : I think so, and I say so.

Crushing operations stop by the 31st of Decem· ber, and during the month of April the mana· gers of those mills can say to within almost a few pounds what the income for the previous year has been. Of course they know what the expenditure has been, because the expenditure for the year stops on the Slot of December.

Mr. MANN : They might run on till the 30th of June.

Mr. P AGET: If they run their expenditure on to the 30th of ,June, then they are including expenditure which does not belong to the previous year ; t.hey are running their maintenance and off season expenses for the coming year into the exj)enditure for the previous year, and that is what they should not do, because each year shonld be self-contained. The maintenance and off season expenses occur between the ht of January and the 30th of June, and the income comes in during the last six months of the year. The ordinary sugar-miller's year should be from the 1st of January to the 31st December, or from the 31st of March to the 31st of March the following year. Hundreds of thousands of public money are invested in those mills, and we as representatives of the people are the custodians of th:tt money, and yet if when a debate of this kind is in progress, and an ban. member wants to discuss anything in connection with those five sugar-mills, which are now controlled by the Government-that is details of expenditure-be has to go back to the crushing season of 1904. That is a posi tion which members of Pariiament should not be placed in. Something like £158,000 of public money has been expended in connection with those mills as a trust account, and yet we as representatives of the people are not placed in such a position that we can mtelligently discuss their conduct and management. I protest against th1s kind of thing.

Mr. J. LEAHY: Yon should block business until you get the report.

Mr. P AG ET : I am afraid there are hardly enough members on this side of the House to block it for a sufficient length of time. But I repeat that it is a position we should not be placed in. ·when the Sugar Bureau Estimates were coming on last year, and certain hon. mem-

[4 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 555

bers objected to going on with them without the report of the department being in their possession, the Treasurer actually postponed the consideration of the Estimates for that department for some three months, and then they had to be rushed through on the last or seccJnd last day of the session. I regret to say that the state of my health at that particular time did not permit me to pass the remarks I had prepared and had intended to make on those Estimates. I maintain that the figures in connection with those mills could be placed before hon. members with reasonable accuracy in the third week in April, and with absolute accuracy in the second week in July, because the last payment of the bonus is made during the first week in July.

Mr. KEN~A: Can't we get that information in the Auditor-General's report?

Mr. PAGET: No; becauee the AuditorGeneral cannot present his report before the end of September. As I have said, the last payment of the bonus is made in the first week of July, and everything could be ready so that they would have only to include those payments in the account of receipts for the year, whether the year ended on the 31st of December or the 31st of March. I again protest against the head of this sub-department not presenting his reporo before this, while the heads of more important departments have their reports ready for Parliament. Mr~ J. LEAHY: He has to save the Govern

ment from themselves. Mr. PAGET: Unfortunately, he is not a

public servant. He says he has the characters of every member of Parliament locked up in his safe, but even if he has I am going to utter my protest again against his inaction, and he can publish my character if he chooses. It will stand investigation as well as h;s or any other man's. Owing to the absence of his report, it is absolutely impossible for us to say whether the money spent on those mills during the past years has been judiciously expended or not. I am speaking somewhat at length on this matter, because I really do not see any need

for all this secrecy. I am quite con[9 p.m.] fident that the Secretary for Agri-

culture, as a business man, cannot see any reason for it, and I would ask him whether this secrecy, as maintained against those who have dealings with the department and with the mills, is not calculated to lead to a destruction of confidence, and to the mills being reduced to the condition of scrapiron ? When the present Ministry came into power in September, 1903, I took up the question of the central mills, and during the course of my remarks I appealed to the Treasurer to treat the canegrowers connected with these mills with fairness and justice, and that is all they want.

The SECRETARY l<'OR AGRICULTURE : I think you will admit that is done.

Mr. P AG ET : I am not saying it is not being done, but I wish to emphasise that if this secrecy in connection with the transactions of the mills of which they are shareholders and of which they are nominally the owners, is maintained, these people will consider they are not being treated with justice, and that probably their money is beinospent as they would not spend it; and, one: you destroy their confidence, it will be extremely difficult for the mills to get the supply of cane that is necessary to make them paying concerns.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Your evidence does not show that so far; it proves quite the reverse.

Mr. P AGET: I have no particular evidence to bring forward about it; but I may say, without egotism, that, although I now reside in Brisbane, there are many men connected with various central mrlls who come to see me and

place their grievances before me. In connection with the contemplated foreclosures, I have had visits from men who are greatly perturbed in mind, and who wished me specially to take the matter up before this debate came on, and I have always referred thpm to the member in whose electorate the particular mill happened to be situated. A great deal of trouble is being experienced at the present time, and a very great deal of anxiet.v caused, in con· nection with the foreclosures which it is presumed are about to take place in connection with four of the central mills in the Southern part of the State, and in connection with the Proserpine mill in the Northern part of the State. Those mills have not done at all badly during the last four crushing seasons. They have done particularly well during the last two seasons ; and there is an excellent prospect for this season and the next, owing to the rains we have had during the past fortnight. Of course, it may be said that it is a far cry from now until the crushing season in next year; but the canegrower has to think, not a few months ahead, like the wheatgrower or the cabbage-grower, but he has to think three years ahead. In connection with these five milb the Government have thought fit to step in as mortgagees in possession and take control of the business of running the mills.

The SECRBTARY FOR AGRICL'LTURE : :b'or the benefit of the canegrowers.

).Ir. PAGET: At first the mills were under the Department of Agriculture, and I had more confidence in eonnection with the matter than I have now, as the head of the Department of Agriculture is a busine&·< man. Now, the Government have thought fit to step in as mortgagees in possession-as the Minister interjects-for the benefit of the canegrowers and of the millo themselves. In carrying out that policy the Government took over the services of a very admirable and clever soil scientist, who was in this State for another purpose, and they transferred his services practically to the running of these mills. For some reason or other which I have not been able to fathom, just of late it has been thought nece>sary to abwlutely foreclose on the lands upon which the mills stand, and upon the lands that are mortgaged to the Treasurer as collateral security-that is, the lands upon which the cane is grown. I would like to bring under the notice of the Committee this phase of the question. 'Whilst the mortgagee is in possession he is obliged to render a statement of accounts of every farthing that he receives or expends to the mortgagors, if they so desire. That is some kind of check upon the mortgagee in possession-a very excellent check in the interests of the mortgagor.

The SECRETARY FOR PGBLIC \VORKS: If you were a mortgagee in possession, you might not think so.

~Ir. PAGET: If these mills have been doing so well whilst the Treasurer has been running them as mortgagee in possession, for what reason should there be absolute foreclosure now? Because, once the foreclosure is completed-and it ·can only be completed by due notice being given-if the persons owning tbe lands do not hand over their equity of redemption, they can only be compelled to hand them over by an action being brought in the Supreme Court, when the judge can give the mortgagor any time he likes. He does not necessarily give him a fortnight to pay off his debt. He can give him six months.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: Three months really.

Mr. P AG ET: I am not speaking as a member of the legal profession, but only as a layman; but I think the Secretary for \Vorks will not deny that it is absolutely in the hands of the udge as to what time shall be given to the

Mr.Paget.]

556 Suppl,y. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

mortgagor within which to pay off his debt before he shall lose his equity of redemption, and it is generally three months.

The SECRETARY ~'OR PuBLIC \VonKs: That is so.

Mr. PAGET: But he can give him six months.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \VORKS; It is vel'y unusual.

Mr. PAGET: It is unusual, but in cases like this, where the lands of a very large number of people are concerned, is it not possible that a judge may give six months? Let us take the case of the Moreton Central Mill. According to the Treasurer's tables on 30th June last, the total indebtedness of the mill was £45,000 odd. The original debenture debt was £32,000 odd but special advances and unpaid interest brought it up at one time to £50,000 odd.

The SECRE'rARY FOR AGRIC\.:LTCRE; But the mill has been put into thoroughly good repair and tramways have been extended.

Mr. P AGET : I admit all that. I was through the mill two months ago.

The SECRETARY l<'OR AGRICULTURE; It is in a much better condition now than it was in before it was taken over.

Mr. PAGET: But out of the £45,400 still due there is a considerable sum which we are not allowed to know anything about, because we have not got the report, which has accrued to the mill on account of advance" to farmers. Then there is the whole of the off season expenditure in connection with maintenance, and the whole supply of cord wood for the present crushing season. All of that was paid for before 30th June. I am quite confident that the result of this crushing season will be that, supposing all these sums were paid back to the mill at the end of the year, and that the whole amount received by the mill for its sugar could be received before 31st December, instead of part being received in March and part in July, the mill would not be in debt more than £30,0o'O.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE; 'l'he action of the Government has probably saved the mill, and probably at the end of this season they will take it back again.

:i\Ir. J. LEAHY: The seasons and the price of sugar have had most to do with it.

Mr. P AG J<~T : The Secretary for Agriculture says that tbe action of the Government has saved the mill. I presume he means that their action as mortgagee in possession has been vet'Y much to the benefit of the mill.

The SECRETARY ]'OR AGRICULTURE; That is so. Mr. P AGET: I am not arguing against that for

the moment. I admit that they have had excellent times ; but I do not admit that the act of foreclosure is going to be for the benefit of the mill and for this rez,son: that the Treasurer last week: when interviewing a deputation from the whole of these five mills, would not recede from the position. He said, "I am going to foreclose· I am doing it in your intere3ts, and you will kn~w all about it by and by." The unfor.tunate people who are under the greatest anxiety at the pre: sent moment, do not know what is going to happen to them.

The SECRETARY l!'OR PuBLIC \VORKS: They are not in much anxiety about it.

Mr. 0Ai11PBELL: Yes, they are; I happen to know.

Mr. PAGET: I do not wish to contradict the Minister for \Vorks, but men have come to me with the very greatest anxiety.

The SECRETARY l!'OR PuBLIC \VoRKs: Canegrowers who are not shareholders.

Mr. KENNA: Land speculators. Mr. P AG ET : But a shareholder is not neces·

sarily a land speculator. Once foreclosure is completed, either on the mill or on the lands on

[Mr.Paget.

which the cane is being grown, the present owners, who are the mortgagees of these )'raperties, have no right to go to the Treasurer and say, "Here is your moneY, or the balance of itrelease our properties." "

The SECRETARY ~'oR AGRIOt:LTUHE: We have· no object in keeping the deeds; we would only be too happy to hand them back.

Mr. PAGET: I don't believe that the Minister for a moment would sanction any robbing of these people, but the legal position is, that once the foreclosure is brought to its legiti· rr1ate conclusion, these mortgagors have no n1ore right to put their foot on that property, whether it has been theirs from the time they felled the scrub, or to put their foot inside the mill, than I have.

Mr. ]'onsYTH: They will lose it altogether. JVIr. CA:IIPBELL : K ot one of the Dulong share

holders ever had a chance of growing cane. The SllCRETAIW FOR AGHICUL'l'URE: If the

Government had not taken it up, there would have been no canegrowing to this day.

Mr. P AG ET : I understand that the men owning land at Dulong mortgaged their properties to the Treasurer to assist in working the milL

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICUL'rURE : It is the directors who are humbugging the canegrowers in every way-not the Government. They have come to the rescue.

JYir. P AGET: One of these shareholders whom I know-a Mr. Dalzell-spent £1,000 in putting cane in for that mill.

The SECHETARY FOR AGnrcn,Tum; : How many years ago? Long before this Act was passed.

Mr. PAGET: Yes, a good many years ago. That man was never able to get his cane crushed, because the tramway was not taken to it; but he is now in the position that he can be treated as one of the speculators that we hear so much about, whose land should be foreclosed and taken away from them. There is a concrete casE>.

The SECRETARY FOR AGHIC!ILT!IRE : I quite recognise that it is not right it should be so; but he will be.dealt with afterwards.

Mr. KE:\XA: How do you know that foreclosure is not a means to an end?

JYir. PAGE'r: Foreclosure of a man's property can only be a means to his being put out of it.

Mr. FUDGE : Only if he is operated on by a Shylock.

Mr. PAGET: How do we know that the present man who is acting for the Treasurer is not a Shylock?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULT\.:RE : The Treasurer says that there is no intention to foreclose on the canegrowers-it fs only where a legal process is essential.

Mr. PAG.F;T: The Treasurer says on page 6-For business and legal reasons it has been deemed

desirable to foreclose on the five mills now administered by the Comptroller. There is no intention to foreclose on the farms of canegrowers; indeed, the action now being taken will, it is hoped. enable us at a much earlier date to release the farms from the burden of the mortgages, and to carry out the original purpose of the Act-that is, to make the mills co-operative concm·ns owned and worked by the canegrowers. In reply to the hon. member for \Vide Bay last week, certain notices were tabled, and here is a portion of one of them-Mortgagors occupying th ei1· own land. Re -- Central

Mill. Sir,-I have the honour to inform you that, default

having been made by the above mill, company, and other 1nortgagors in the terms of the mortgages, the Treasurer has decided to foreclose on the properties mortgaged to him. I have, therefore, to give you notice that I am prepared to enter into an agreement with you on the Treasurer's behaH on cert,ain terms--

Supply. [ 4 SEPTEMBER.] Supp(y. 557

This shows that the man is a canegrower-which, if accepted by you, will enable you to remain in possession of the land now in your occupation, so that you may continue to cultivate it and supply cane to the 1nill. This is a notice to a canegrower.

Mr. CAMPBELL : To coerce him. The SECRETARY l<'OR AGRICULTURE : Does it

not speak of a.n agreement there? Mr. PAGET: Exactly. I will show you

where gentle pressure is going to be exercised. The SECRE1'ARY FOR AGRICULTURE : Very

necessary pressure. Mr. P AGET: This is on the canegrower

endeavouring to make his living by growing cane-not on the man who mortgages his land and never grew cane.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: It will put him in a better position.

Mr. PAGET-Unless you enter into ~mch an ageement with me I

shall require you to vacate the land, so that I may be in a position to enter into arrangements with some other tenants who will cultivate the land and supply the mill with cane. Once a foreclosure has come to the bitter end, the original owner of that land is no longer the owner. The terms of the notice tell him that he is a tenant only.

Mr. C.UIPBELL : And more cane is being grown at 1\ambour now.

The SECRETARY l!'OR AGRICULTFRE: One good thing will be to put the men growing the cane in control of the mill.

Mr. PAGET: But the Minister does not answer my objection, that once'' foreclosure is brought to its legitimate conclusion--

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICVLTCRE : vVhat if the agreement entered into obviates the fore· closure?

Mr. P AGET: Then there is a notice signed by "\V. JI,Iaxwell, Comptroller." How can a man farming his own land be a tenant unless the land has been foreclmed upon?

The SECRETARY FOH PUBLIC \VORKS: \Vhy, he is a tenant now before foreclosure.

:Yir. P AG ET : X ot in the way we speak of a tenant ; he is a freeholder. The notice is headed, "To mortgagors occupying their own lands."

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC \Vom{s: That notice shows that if he enters into an agreement to grow cane, foreclosure will not go any further.

Mr. P AG ET : ''You enter into an agreement which I dictate to you, otherwise you go out." I do not think it is calculated to keep the confidence in the working of the mills that shoulq exist between the canegrower and the persons who are running the mill. There must be absolute confidence between the two, or else the one will go down, and then the mill. The doctor goes on to say-

I may state that I wish to avoid disturbing you in the possession of your land, and that you will find it to your ad vantage to make sucb' arrangements with me, as I shall endeavour to come to such terms with you as would be of mutual advantage of all pa.rties concerned. I propose to call you and the other grmvers together at an early date, of which you will receive notice, and the terms of the proposed arrangement can then be fully discussed with you personally.

I want to ask the Minister this: Are these actions for foreclosure meanwhile to continue? I am discussing nothing that can be termed sub judice. As far as I am aware, writs have not been served.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: They are two different kinds of action altogether-one is against the mill and the other is against the canegrower. The one against the mill will be gone on with, the other depends on circumstances.

Mr. P AGET: In view of that explanatiOn, the canegrowers who are mortgagors . in connection with the central mills will feel a relief in their minds, which will spur them on to continue canegrowing and do their share towards clearing the debt off these mills. In connection with the

four mills that are mentioned in [9.30 p.m.] the Treasnrer's Statement as having

been originally under the control and which ar8 now not under the control of the Treasurer, I would like to say this: That all those mills have not only been paying interest and redemption to the Treasurer since they passed from under his control, but also in the case of Plane Creek they have been paying high prices for cane-namely, 14s. 6d. and 15s. per ton, and building many miles of tramlines from the profits. The Mossman mill has been paying up to £1 and £1 1s. per ton for its cane, and it has purchased a very large quantity of machinery of late and put it into the mill-all out of the profits. The Mulgrave, another mill under the Sugar \Vorks Guarantee Act, has also been paying £1 and £1 ls. per ton for its cane, and has a big reserve fund. The Racecourse mill, which was mentioned hy the Minister as one of the mills that was under Government control, though it had not to come under the control of the Comptroller-I warrant that there was a great deal of talk at that time about the Treasurer being an active partner. The people in these mills were told, "\Ve want to be an active partner of yours." It we,s suggested that Dr. Maxwell should be placed in charge, and those who were in authority said, "Very well, we owe you £300 or £400 for interest, which was due on the 30th of June last. \Ve have not paid it, and we are technically in arrears. \V e will come under the control because we think the doctor may by chemical supervision assist us in our mill." That is why that mill came under Government control. They went ont from the control because they were not satisfied with the chemical supervision that was brought about under this new system. They paid their interest and redemption, and what is the positiOn of that mill now? That mill on the 30th June last only owed the Treasurer £1,200 out of the original debt of some £28,000. And not only do they only owe the Treasurer that £1,200, but they put up £10,000 or £12,000 worth of property as \vel! outside of the mill itself. \Vhat their credit balance is, and their advances to farmers, I am unable to say, because I have not got their balance-sheet with me, but it is something very considerable. That mill could write out a cheque for the amount it owes the Treasurer and pay him off to-nJOrrow. That was a mill that was temporarily nnder the control of the Treasurer for a certain time. \Vith respect to the remarks in the Treaeurer's Statement about the £30,000 that has been spent within the last two and a-half years on certain mills nnder the Comptroller as against other mills, I very much regret that the Auditor-General's report for 1905 is not yet to hand, and will not be until the end of this month. vVe all know that it is impossible for the Auditor· General to place his report before us before that date, so I am obliged to quote from his report for 1904, covering the operations of these mills for the crushing season of 1904. On page 83, Appendix L, is given a table containing fig-ures which were compiled for the five seasons ending on the season for 1904-5. I do not wish to go into the average total cost of manufactured, but I will point out what some of these mills had done in connection with expenditure on maintenance, repairs, mill machinery, tramways, etc., for those five years. These are interesting reading. Gin Gin mill in the five years spent £1,423 ; J\>Iarian, £6,526; Moreton, £9,450; Mo~sman,

Mr.Paget.]


which is the mill furtherest North of any in Queensland, £23,704; theMulgrave, which isthe next furthest North, £15,288; the Plane Creek, which is also not under the control of the Comptroller, £6,402; Proserpine, which is under the control, £(),692; also, in regard to maintenance, machinery, and so on, it is quite necessary that we should go to the figures in connection with other mills which are not under the control, because it is the usual thing for all millowners, if they can possibly manage it out of their profits, to spend something every year in improving their machinery. At Mossman mill the year before last they purchased and introduced a Krajewski crusher, which prepares the cane before it goes into the mill. It cost them £3,000. There is always something to be done. A man does not think he is doing right, if he is in charge of a mill, unless he is able to add something to his plant during the off season. The .Financial Statement gives the payments for the six mills during eight and a-half years and the payments for tv1o and a-half years. I have prepared a statement which I would like to read, but before doing so I would like to draw the attention of the Committee to this fact: That in 1903 or thereabouts, when the Sugar "\Vorks Guarantee Act was brought into operation, the price of sugar was £12 per ton. As a matter of fact, the contract price was £11 18s., but £12 per ton is near enough to quote. It was on that basis-on that price of sugar--that that legislation was brought into force in this State. It was considered at that time that certain people who had not then their own mills, could make use of their lands if the Treasurer found the money to erecb mills, and it seemed at that time perfectly good and sound business. To my knowledge certain central sngar-milis-the Racecourse mill, which I have in my mind, and one or two private mills-were making £4 per ton profit on their sugar-£12,000, £14,000, and £16,000 profit a year. At the time it all seemed exceedingly good business ; but what happened? "\Vithin a very short time of that period raw sugar fell from £12 to £8 and £8 5s. per ton. These mills had made their arrangements to borrow money and build their mills, and some of them had got their mills completed. They had all their initial difficulties to contend with in getting their machinery to work.

Mr. KENNA: And not having sufficient cane. Mr. PAGET: They also had the big initial

difficulty of not having sufficient cane to work upon.

Mr. MANN: That did nob apply in every case. J\fr. P AG ET : Yes, in almost every case. If

you turn up the Auditor-General's reports you will find that the mills in the last two years are making, in some instances, five times as much as they used to.

Mr. KENNA: But they started with a deficiency of cane.

Mr. PAGET: That was one of their initral difficulties.

Mr. KENNA : The Sugar "\Vorks Guarantee Act said money should not be lent until sufficient cane was grown for the mill.

Mr. P AG ET : Those mills in the first years of their existence bad to contend with two factors which they did not expect to have to deal with. One of these was the small supply of cane. and the other the fall in the price of sugar to £8 per ton. Even if the price of sugar had not fallen, they would not have got into arrears. That is a side of the question we must not lose sight of when we are discussing the question why these mills did not pay from the jump. They could pay better now with sugar at £8 10s. or £9 than then, because of the big crops they could get now, and they would be handling a bigger

[Mr. Paget.

quantity. In connection with this matter I am going to read some figures which I got from the last nine reports of the Auditor-General. Absolute accuracy cannot be aimed at, but I am going to show here what the position of these mills would have been had the price of sugar remained at .£12 per ton during the lean years in the crops caused by the drought and the fall in price. The statements I have prepared are as follow:-

CONTROLLED CENTRAL JIIILLS' REPAYJIIE).!TS.

Mill.

,;; ~

" 0

"' " g:~ w

ci 0

E-<

.s 0

E-< [:! § I ------ -------GinGiu-

1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 190] 1902 1903

5 crushings

1904 1905

2 crushings

Tons. 929 989

£ 10 5 3 8 10 11

£ 9,53cl 8,459

* 3,i39 8 5 0 30.847 1,297 8 7 6 10,862

i· t t

£

221 11 12 10 I 2,568 t ' t t ... ___ , ____ j ___ ----

7,175 i ... 162,270 86,100 --1---------t2,165112 6 81!25.234 .. . !2,092 12 5 0 25,627 .. .

4257 --.... -150,861 ~--... -

-. -R-ec-oi-.d-s -no_t_o--bt--amable. t No cruslnng; drought. t 88 per cent. j9J. per cent.

Average output for five crushings to season 1903, 1,435 tons. Average output for two last seasons 1904-5, 2,128 tons ; at £12 per ton average loss on price alone was £23,830 during the five crushings prior to 1904. Arrears of principal and interest at 30th June, 1906, were .£19, 98!! 14s. 5d. Value of the 1904 and 1905crops was only £11,409 below that of the previous five crops crushed in the seven preceding years.

,;; ~ £i

~$ cc~

"" "'" ~?l 0

E-< ---,----Nerang- Tons. £ £ £ 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903

7 crushings ...

1904 .. . 1905 .. .

2 crushings ...

745 787

1,299 556 690 668

* 660

'>,405

9 16 4 8 18 4

10 7 2 11 0 0 13 1 n 13 7 8

* 13 3

7,313 7,017

13,455 6,116 9,026 8,940

* t8,192

60,059

501 13 1 11 t6,056 t7lO 13 0 0 9,230

1,211 I t15,286

70,869

* No crushing; drought. t 94 per cent. Average ontpu t for seven crnshings to season 1903, 772 tons. Average output for two last seasons, 1904-5, 606 tons, in spite of the control. Comparison in the case of this mill between the periods would be extremely difficult to make, as the crops up to the year 1903 were mostly white sugars for the open market. The average of those prices, however, was only equal to those obtained for raw sugars in the seasons

Supply. [4 SEPTEMBER.] Suppl.1J. 559

1904-5. The arrears of interest and redemption at 30th June, 1906, were £11,760 3s. Sd., but it is certain that the mill would have been at least £11,000 better off had prices previously been equal to those prevailing in 1904-).

"' .... 2 .,; drf

~_.:; 0

'" ""'-'

"' "'" "" " ~;E 31ill. g:.g ,.. "' "" "'" "' p. ~'9

"" " .... 00 ~

" ';; +'6

"'"' "' ~ oco

o'"' "'~ E-< ..... E-< <· -----------

More ton- £ s. cl. £ £ 1896 1897 752 9 13 2 7,263 1898 1,343 8 5 0 11,080 lE99 1,146 8 9 0 9,684 1900 905 8 9 0 7.647 1901 848 8 4 0 6,953 1902 301 ll 8 7 3,4Hl 1903 1,507 12 8 3 t18,706

--------------7 crushings 6,802 sqp.c. 64,773 81,624

net titre ------ -------

1901 2,500 13 1 11 t32,739 1905 t3,945 t13 0 0 51,285

--------------2 crushings 6,445 84,024

* £12 per ton. t 94 per cent. Average output for seven crushings to season 1903, 972 tons per seaecn. Average output for two last crnshings, 1U04-5, 3,222 tons per season, at £12 per ton average for SS per cent. sugar; the less receipts alone were £1G,il51 for the seven years prior to the year 1904 ; arrears of principal and interest at 30th June, 1906, were £5,4316s. 6d. ; average output for two crnshings, se;·,sons 1904-5, 3,223 tons; big crnshings decreased cost per ton and large increase in value, two last years equalled in tonnage the tot~! output of the previous seven seasons, and exceeded it in value by £19,251.

Mr. KENNA: The policy of the Government was to increase the number of cane suppliers.

Mr. PAGET: But the number of cane suppliers was not increased.

The SECRETARY l<'OR AGRICULTURE : They consented to accept low prices for cane, with a view to help to redeem the mill.

Mr. P AG EJ' : The actual prices paid were 9s. 6d., 10s. 6d., and lls. Gd. per ton.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : Confidence has been inspired in that district since the mill was under Government control, which did not exist before.

Mr. P AGET : I think confidence has been inspired by the fact that the farmers have had

exceedingly good seasons, which [10 p.m.] have put heart into them to go

on with their cane-planting, and to extend their areas.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : And they knew the mill would crush their cane, whereas under the old directorate it was going to pieces.

:Mr. CAMPBELL: No. Mr. P AGEJ': This mill was under partial

control before 1904. It was under partial control under the old Government, who advanced £2,500 for the extension of a certain tramway. That extension was made before the present Government came into power.

Mr. CAMPBELL : It was up to the top of the range before they came into power.

Mr. PAGET: It was up to the top of the range in 1902.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: In 1903 they wanted a deviation.

Mr. P AGET: The fact still remains that, fortunately for the shareholders, they have had

most excellent seasons for the last two yearsin fact, they made 1,507 tons in 1903-and they have received an excellent price for their sugar, which has put confidence into everybody.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Hear, heart Mr. PAGET: There is no question that, if

it had not been for those good seasons, these returns could not have been shown. It is the most remarkable example that a man could have put before a body of men of what two good seasons will do when it can be shown that those two seasons returned £19,251 more than the previous se.-en seasons. Now I turn to the Proserpine-

"' I ~ § ~ ~ ~~ ~ g I, ~~ cfj § A ~ I ~~ ro ~ g ~ I ~8

:l'Ii!l.

------ ~~ ~ ~ ' ~r-. Proserpine- £ s. cl. £ I £

1897 1,320 9 5 0 12,208 !

1899 1,020 8 0 0 8,160 I 189S ...

1

: 1,470 9 2 3 13,428 i 1900 ... 1,836 8 0 0 14,688 : 1901 ... 1.712 8 4 0 14,038 ~ 19o2 ... I 2,175 11 2 7 24,205 j' .. .

1903 ... ! 2,918 11 17 3 t3.,614 .. .

7 crushings 112,451 =--;_- 121,341 . 149,41:_

19o~ ... 1 •4, 144 12 10 11 +48,246 1 ... 1905 "'1..!::!41 *12 ~ ~262 ! __ ._ .. __

2 cl'Ushings I, 6,885 82,508 \

* 88 per cent. t 94 per cent. Average output for seven crushings to season 1903, 1, 779 tons per season. Average output for two last crushings, 1904-5, 3, 443 tons per season. At £12 per ton average the less receipts on price alone was : On the seven crushings prior to the year 1904, £28,071, as against arrears of principal and interest at 30th June, 1906, of £20,940 7s. 6d. In the two seasons 1904-ii, 6,885 tons sugar were made, as against 12,451 tons for the previous seven crnshings; but this 6,885 tons sugar brought in only £12, l!l7 less than the total returns from the 12,451 tons. The Sugar Bureau may have had control of the mills, but had no control over the priees that gave such splendid results. Now I turn to the ~Tonnt Banple mill, in connection with which, as with the other mills now under control, it must be pointed out that the 1904 crop was planted before the Government took control :-

Mill.

Mount Bauple-1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903

5 crushings

"' " .. B " <1 " ~§

"e:: "' ---Tons.

2,205 798

1,400 133 723

---5,259

.,; 0

'" E-< .. ~ " "' "" :s " "' 0 p- E-<

---- ---£ £

8 0 0 17,'640 8 2 6 6,484 8 2 6 11,376 ll 7 10 1,513 11 14 9 t8,485 --------

45,497

1904 1,545 12 8 5 t17,540 1905 t 1,484 12 5 0 t1S,179

"'-c;:~

""" :::;·c '@~ p."? ~..,

"'"" ,..,"" ~.-! •· ----

£

----63,108

2 crushings '3:0z9 --.-.. --~35,719 ----.. --

* J'iamely, £12 per ton. t 94 per cent,


Average output for five crushings to season 1903, 1,052 tons per season. Average output for two last crushings, 190-1-5, 1.515 tons per season. At £12 per ton average for SS per cent. net titre sugar, the less receipts on price alone have been £17,611 for the five crushings prior to the year 1904. Arrears of principal and interest at the

30th June, 1906, were £12,854 Ss. 4d. Total crop value the past two seasons was only £9,778 below the total value of the previous five seasons, again showing what good seasons combined with high prices will do to pull the wheel of sugargrowing out of the rut of debt.

SUl\IMARY.

~ ~~~:tB 'ii .8~ 1s a g- ~~ 1H~ ~ :~~§ $ '0~ , s ~ ~ ~~ e~j E :o~+>a.) 5 §g l~ o ~ Of ~ gs.g

~~ ·~£r---OI 0 -~ 1

1

1 § 5)~ §~ ..fl ''"'~w ~" ::l ro~~~~· ~"':! ::-. -+-> p.~ .....,-;-:. o S~o

~ ~..... (l,) .§'f! I <l) ..... .----. • ...,;> ~ o o .,.... ~~::1~~ ::l ....,.,.... A 0) O)a."l ,, .t:~·~

s g : ·; ~ ~ ~ ·E ~ -+-> ~~ ~ § ~ ~ § 00 M

~ ~ ~-~~M§ .9 -ce 1§. "~ ~'" ~'& ~ ~i;l~ Mill.

.fr, ,8 !~~.So1 ~ 0~ ,5§ ~§ b~ ~~ w ~ ..... Sj. ~ I :a :~~~~I ~ 00~ ' ~';: ~gj %1~ ~g~ -+->~ 8 ~ ~~ 3 ~~ ~~~~;~ ~ ~~ ! ~g ~~ ~~ ~ro$ ~ ~-~~~ 0 ~ ~ ! b p.. :d (JJ I s ~ +"' ! ~ ;..-, :; +0> ~ ~ ~ 00 r-1 ~ ~ ri+>-+->

~----!-"'- I 8 ! 8 I A -<1 I -<1 -<1 -<1 -<1 0 ~ Tons.-~--£--:~,-~--~-£-- -~-::\ons. -;;--:; Tons. ~--;-Tons. --£--

Gin Gin 7,175 -~62,270 86,100 i 23,830 19,989 14 5 i 1,435 8 13 6 2,128 12 0 0 4,257110,642

Nerang ...

1

5,405 60,0591 70,869 i

1

, 10,810 11,760 3 81 772 t11 2 2 606 12 0 0 []1,211 3,028

::IIoreton . 6,802 6,4,7731 81,624 16,851 5,431 6 6 972 9 10 5 3,223 12 0 0 6,445 16,112

Proserpine ... 12,4511121,341 1

1149,412 '28,071 20,940 6 i 1,779 9 14 11 3,443112 0 0 6,885 17,213

li!Ionnt Bauple 5,259 45,497 63,108 I 17,611 12,854 8 4 i 1,052 s 13 0 1,515 1

§12 0 0 3,029 7,572

Total ... ;:2T:~;-~-:::-~~:~~~~--~-:-------:::;j-:; *These five mills would have been this amount better off, notwithstanding-bad seasons, if prices had kept up. t Could have paid interest anrl redemption, and been £26,197 in pocket as well. t }Iostly whites. ~' £~ 10s. per ton above the averag:'1 price received during the seven years prior to 1903. Tot.al extra receipts

from price alone on thc.;;e five mills during the two years of control was, on output of21,827 tons, £54,567. I! Raw sugar.

The total from these five mill8 named, prior to 1904, was 37,002 tons, and they received £353,940 for it. If the better price had .prevailed that we are now getting, they would have received £451,113-or have been £97,173 bet,ter off, notwithstanding the bad seasom. Their arrears on the 30th June this year only amounted to £70,976, so that they could have paid the whole of their interest and redemption up to date, and been £26,197 in pocket as well. The average value which these mills received for their sugar was £9 10>•. lOd., and as the price for the past two years is over £12 a ton for the same quality of sugar, I am perfectly justified in saying that the mills under control have had the £2 10s. a ton over and above the prices that some mills received prior to the s8ason of HlO±. The output for the season 1904-5 of these five mills was 21,827 tons, and yet in the seven previous seasons they only made 37,000 tons during drought and bad seasons, and they actually received £54,567 over and above the prices they would have received for the sugars had the same prices prevailed as: prevailed during the currency on the seven years previous. The price realised was £2 10s. per ton over the price received during the seven years prior to 1903, and the total extra receipts from the price alone of these five mills, during the two years of control, was on an output of 21,887 tons, equal to £54,567.

Mr. :MANN: They have been a succe;+s.

1Ir. PAGET: They could not ·help being a success, because they had the two biggest factors that make for success-good seasons combined with high prices.

[Mr. Paget.

I'he SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTGRE : The other factor is good management.

l\Ir. P AGET: This statement is worthy of consideration in view of the Treasurer's determination to foreclose at a time of good crops and high prices. The Moreton mill, of the whole of those which are now controlled, is in the best position, and at the end of this year must be out of debt with regard to its arrears.' If the Treasurer forecloses before the end of the year, the shareholders and the farmers cannot go back into possession unless they take the whole of the debt owing on the mill and say to the Treasurer, "There is your money," and then they have to get a concession from the Treasurer to enable them to step in. I want to ask the :Minister for vVorks, if the Treasurer remains as mortgagee in possession, and the accounts show at the end of the year that the whole of the arrears of interest and redemption have been paid up to date, must he hand the control of that mill over to the shareholders?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC 'WoRKS: I should think so, if they have paid up.

Mr. P AGET: I do not mean the whole of the debt, but not being in arrears the mortgagee has no right to possession.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS : If he has no right to possession they can get possession· now.

Mr. PAGET: The question is: vVhat does this foreclosure mean? Does it mean that althongh these people will practically not be in arrears at the end of the year, they cannot get

Supply. [4 SEPTEMBER.] 561

possession ? In my opinion it is not a fair deal with those shareholders who originally completed their securities over their holdings for the building of that mill.

Hon. R. PHILP: No private mortgagee would do it.

Mr. P AG ET: It is said of some financial institutions that the time when mortgagors shake in their shoes and lose their homes, is when crops and prices both become very good, but I am loth to believe that there are any financial institutions which would put men out of their homes under such conditione.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICL"LTURE : Still less the Treasurer.

Mr. PAGET: The Treasurer says that be has paid off by the present management £51, \J73 during the two and a-half years. He says be has spent £30,000 odd on maintenance and ad_ditions, and paid off £10.078 of old deMs, whJCh means altogether some £93,000. It is impossible for me to say whether those profits were legitimate or not. \Ye have not the necessary inf'lrmation before ns, so that I am quite unable to say whether they should have be'cn able to pay more money to the Treasurer or not. It is extremely probable that part of this £51,973 was a credit for the previous year's crop, before they took contrc1l on the 1st ,January, 1904. I think it is extremely probable that portion of this money was paid out of profits accruing ant of the 1903 crop. The Treasurer, also, does not take into account a little sum that has been paid into the credit of

the"-e six mills. These figures deal I10.30 p.m.l with six mills, but I only dealt with

five, ben use the sixth mill has pa•sed out of the control of the Treasurer, and into the hands of the Queensland National Bank, and that does not come out of the profit, at all.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: Did the mill make a profit ?

Mr. PAGET: Yes; that is include! in the £51,000. The £8,600 arrears paid off by the Que••nsland X ational Bank is also included in the £51,000.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULT!IRE: You say the Pleystowe mill made a profit?

:Mr. F!:DGE: It should have been much more.

::Yir. PAGET: Yes, it should have been much more. I have been given to understand that the Plevstowe mill, at the time the Treasurer took control, owed the Queensland National Bank some £7,500, and the bonus paid by the Colonial Sugar Refining Company in 1903, I understand, amounted to about that sum.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : About £.1,500.

Mr. PAGET: The bonus was £2 10s. per ton. The SECRETARY FOR Pl:BLIC "WORKS: It did

not come up to the bank's account.

Mr. PAGET: I will not go into the question as to whether the Comptroller of the Sngar Bureau gave a correct interpretation of his interview with the general manager of the bank to the Treasurer or not. 'rhat is his business, and it rests on his conscience. Let him be the keeper of it. It is extremely probable that the Queensland National Bank saw there would never be an opportunity under the control of getting this £7,500, and so they" took the bull by the horns," and said, "We can make more profit out of this mill if we got control of it ourselves. \Ye will pay the £8,300 of arrears to the Treasurer, and

1U06-2x

guarantee further payments. vYe will get the control of the mill into our hands, and get our overdraft oat of the profits."

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICL"LT!:RE: It worked out well for the Treasurer.

Mr. PAGET: I am very pleased to see it. ~Ir. FUDGE: I am not. Mr. P AG ET : I am pleacced to see that

another of the central mills, and especially one in ~Iackay, has been able to pay off its indebtedness Hnd get out of the Treasurer's control. I must bring my remarks to a conclusion. It is really a remarkable thing that in spite of this excellent control which we hear so much about -in spite of the pr'"t seasons and in spite of the price of sugar, whi~h is the best the industry has known for the past t we! ve years-after all said and done, very little more than interest and redemption has been paid by the Comptroller on account of these mills. At any rate, all I can say is that I much regret that we have not the figures before us that would have enabled us to properly analyse them, for I think a little more than an extra profit of £9,000 might have been shown for the Sugar Bureau during the two years. And in connection with these mills I will say this: The other night the hon. member for Bowen drew a most harrowing picturP of the shopgirl shivering and trembling under the cold, callous eye of the shopwalker. He po,itively made a gre.tt number of members of this House feel that there was something very wrong. Now, do you not think that a very great number of the canegrowers in connection with these five controlled central mills are feeling a verr great deal of anxiety over the notices of foreclosure that have been served on them by this Comptroller?

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTtRE: Not the canegrowers. They are not concerned at all.

Mr. P AG ET : How can the.y not be concerned when they have a chance of losing their properties? All I can say is that in the year 1!103 I asked the Treasurer in this House would he give the canegrower every consideration.

The SECRETARY l<'OR AGRICULTURE: He has had it.

Mr. PAGET: And serve him out a fair deal. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICL"LTURE: He has

had that.

1vlr. PAGET: And give him justice, and I again ask for that consideration and justice to be continued to be served out to him. I want to see not only these five mills but the thirteen mills that are owing money to the Government meet their liabilities. I want to see the public money tlmt has been in vested in this industry repaid by the shareholders of these mills, and I again ask the 'rreasurer to see that the shareholders in connection with these mills and the canegrowers get a bir deal. That is all that I ask for. In conclusion, I trust, in common with the Treasurer in his concluding paragraph, that Queemland is now enjoying the glow of returning prosperity. I hope, and I dare say every member of this House does, that if it is our lot to meet together next year to discuss another Financial Statement, the Trea; surer's forecast of a surplus of £3,000 will again pr0ve incorrect, and that the surplus will be £123,000.

HoNOURABLE MEiliBERs : Hear, hear !

The House resumed. The CHAIRMAN reported progress, and the Committee obtained leave to sit again to-morrow.

The House adjourned at nineteen minutes to 11 o'clock.

lllr. Paget.]

Legislative Assembly Hansard 1906 - Queensland Parliament

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Transcript of Legislative Assembly Hansard 1906 - Queensland Parliament