June21-1988.pdf - House of Assembly

Volume XL

Tuesday

Province of Newfoundland

FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF

NEWFOUNDLAND

Fourth Session

VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard}

Speaker: Honourable P.J. McNicholas

•

Nmnber 60

21 June 1988

The House met at 2:00 p.m .

MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please!

L'll hen we ad j our ned the House 1 as t ntght at ten o'cJ.ock, I had somE! doubt in my mind as to how we should proCE!ed today. I wilJ. just quote part of Standing Or·der No . 8: 11 Mr. Speaker shall adjourn the House without question put, provided that alJ. businE!SS not dispoSC:'d of at. t.i"w t.errrdna t ·ion of the sitting shall stand over until t h e n C:~ x L s i t. t i n g d a y IAJ h C:~ n i. t 1~.rl J. 1. be taken up at the same stage where i.ts progress was interrupted. 11

I was nol : clE~dr "i.n my m.i.nd whether·

we should carry on exactly in debate today . In other 1..uords, that the han. the Leader of the Opposition would immediately CRrry on the debate or whether we should have our ordinary daily routine .

I lookE!d up the precedents of thr:~

House and I found three that ar'E! appropriate. I have ler~t out: the Wednesday ones because it is Private Members' Day and different . The ones I found, if hon. members would like to take note, are: 1977, May 9 and June 9;

and 1970, April 27. When the House adjourned at E!leven o'clock on the follo1)dng dates, May 9 and June 9. 1977, and April 27. 1970,

thC:~ next day, in ever·y case, the routine Orders of the Day were go n e t h r o u g h bE! f o r e UHc' d e bate was resumed, and in no case was the debal:e stRrted immechately.

So for l:hc:li: rec1SOtl I Feel that what we should do today is get into the routine busi.rH::~ss, and I call for StatemE:~nts by Ministers. Then I will call the hon. the Leader of the Opposition to resume the debate that we had last night .

L3 322 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

Statements by Ministers

MR. DOYLE : Mr. SpE:~aker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the MJ.ni ste r· of Transpor·tation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: H ~:.~ar, hear!

MR. DOYLE : Mr·. SpE! a ke r, I am p] E!a s ed t:o a nnoun ce t o th e hon . Ho u sG of Ass embly toda y a Jis t o-f p r o j ect:~;

v a J. u e d .:1 1:. $ /.6 . 5 1n i. l.l. ·i. on

SOME HON . MEMBERS : --------------Hear, he ar!

MR . DOYLE : - to be publicalJ.y tendered by rny department ov e r the next few week s for highway upgrading and paving throughout the Province. Mr. Speaker, these transportation improvement proje c ts will be carried out during the 1988 construction season . fhey l.rJi ll be

funded under the $100 million ERDA Enrichment Agreement signed with the Federal Government yesterday -

SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE~ar, hear!

MR. DOYLE: - as part of our Newfoundland and Labrador Transportation Initiative.

So, Mr. Speaker, we are moving quil:e expE:~ditiousJ.y indE~ed to gf:~t

these projects out so that they can be corn p 1 e t (~ d t h :i. s cons t r u c t ion season.

The projects to be tendered are as Follows:

1 . The upgrading of a 20 KM

No. 60 (Afternoon) R3322

'

section of Trans-Labrador from Churchill Falls Wabush.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

H-ight~oJay towards

2. The construction and paving of Penetangulshene By--pass, in St. John 1 S.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

MR. DOYLE: 3. Resurfacing and improvements to intersections on Route 210 between Red Harbour and Marystown.

SOME l-ION. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

MR. DOYLE: 4. Paving St. Bride 1 s to Branch .


S. The:~ upgradJng of Po-.-i.nt. Li:trlCC:~

Road.

6. The paving of a 12 KM section of Bur·geo Rodd.

SOME HON. MF-MBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: Burg eo?

MR. DOYLE: Burgeo Road .

MR. DINN : Sure the member is against that.

MR. DOYLE: 7. Upgrading 205, H:illvietAJ Within.

and paving totAJards St.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : He:~ar, hear!

L3 323 JunE:~ 21, 1988

Route Jones

Vol XL

MR. DOYLE : 8. Paving Route 204 from U .ttle Heart 1 s FasE:~ to Soul:hpo-rt.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: He:~c!lr', hear·!

MR. DOYLE: 9. Pav·ing Rou l:.e ~~20 and 4-21 towards Jackson 1 s Arm and Hampden.

SOME l-ION. MEMR E f~S :

HE!ar, hear!

MR. DOYLE: And, Mr. Speaker, a part of our longstanding commitment:

10. The upgrading and pavjng of Roddickton towards Englee.


MR. DINN: Sure he is against the agreement.

MR. DOYLE : Mr. SpE:~akc~r, thE~ <:·d:wvc;o named projects, r·eptnesE!nt a sigrd.Ficant :.i.ncrr~ase :i.n Hw l:ot:Al a1nount. of:highway upgrading and pav:ing to be carr :i.e d o u 1: i n t h P. Pro 1ri. n c c,~ t hi s year under the Federal/Provincial ERDA AgrP.ement. In the Fall of 1987 projE!Cts valued at $34-.6 m:i.ll. Lon I.I.H,~re <Hlnouncc.;!d lHldE!r· this agreement and what we have announced today will total. $61.1 million under the EIWA agreE•mE:•nt. The project:s to be carried out are spread throughout the Island portion of our Prou:incE!, as IAJEd.l as Labrador.


MR. DOYLE: This demonstrates commitment on the government to provide efficient network of

No. 60 (Afternoon)

a strong part of

a safe and secondary

R3323

roads in the Pr·ovince. In addition to these projects, the $40 million :in provincial projects previously announced, amount to a total in excess of $100 million to be spent on highway -


MR. DINN : How come the Premier :is not gone dmun to Government House?

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh!

MR. DOYLE : I am sure that members opposite will want to hear that again just in case they did not get that figure. ln excess of $100 million will be spent on highway upgrading and paving throughout the Prouince this present year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : H(->. ar, hear!

MR. DOYLE: The employment to be gE!nE!rated by this construction activity tAli 11 be substantial and the benefits will be felt in virtually all parts of Net..oJfoundland. Mr. Speaker, the agreement signed with the federal government on June 20, 1988 is for a fifte(>.n year· period and in th(->. months and years ahead I will be announcing to the House of Assembly many additional projects to be undertaken i n future years.

The Newfoundland Transportation Initiative includes thre:~e major road improvement packages. The projects which I have just announced for·m only the beginning of a $100 million enrichment of our present ERDA agre~~mE:~r)l : . Over the nr:~xt four years many areas of t h E! P r o v i . n c E! I Ali 11 b e n e F :l i:. F r· o m road improvements from that

L3324 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

particular agreement .

WE:~ have yet to concludE! tl'w precise projects which will form part of $235 million agreement for upgrading regional trunk roads. However, Funding tdill begin on that agreement very soon, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we shall c ontinUE! our progr e s s in upgr a d i ng t he Tran s -Canada Highway to national s l: a n d cH' d s . ~'I) h i l. E! no n e o f U1 £?.

project s I announce today f orm part of t:.he Tr·ans .. ·-Canacla Highway, I fully E!Xpe c t to bE:~ pl a CJ. ng beforo lh:i.s :lou s(;! on an annual basis an additional $405 million oF lAJO r k as a re s u 1 L o F t h ('! n e L~J

Newfoundland and Labrador rran :;por'Lt'IL'i.on Ini t .i.at ·i.v(,;,.

Just to gi.lH~ memi:H:~rs oppostt~:!, Mr. Speaker, somE! idE!a of -thE! e x p e n d i. t u r e s IAJ h i c h g o v e r· n rrHo' n t lo~.Ji J. 1 be undertaking in the fifteen-year l"lfe~ of thai: a greement, th e r··e will, as we indicated yesterday, be an $800 million funding package announced by government which will be spent over the next fifteen years. There is currentJ.y $86 million remaining in the present ERDA agreemE!nt.

BaSE!d on a minimum of a $4.0 million provincial exp(~nd:ittH'€'

which the government makes available each year through its roads program, over a fifteen-year period that will amount to $600

million and wiJ.l totaJ. $1.5 b J. 11 i o n lAJ h i c h t h i ~' g o u E! r n rn e n t tJ.ri 11 be undertaking, Mr. Speaker, as part oF its transportation initiative.

Add to that the other agrE!ernE!nts, OlJer· and above l:h(,' rai1tAJay that lAJe will be negotiating with the fed0ral gouernmenl during that fifteen-year period, and you haVE!

No. 60 ( After·noon) R3324

a package of funding which will be take the people of Newfoundland and Labrador into the 21st Century with a good transportation system.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hea1n!

MR. GILBERT : Mr . Speaker .

MR . SPEAI<F.:R : The-?. hon. the mE!ITtber fotn Burgeo Bay 0 1 Espo-i.r.


MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker, I am glad that the minister acted so quickly on the agre~1ment signed yesterday. I am sure the people have suffered during the years who have lived in t:hose areas LlJhere they needed those roads paved. But I Ll.Jonder :if t h c:1 price we are pet yin g for· it is going to be worth it.

There is old expression out in PJ.acent:i.a Bay: 11 I wond~1r i. s the shot going to be worth the powder 11

•

SOME HON. MFMBERS : H~1Cir, h(~aln!

MR. GILBERT : When it really boils down, what we have herE:1 is a s'i.l~.uati.on tJJhere we are selling the railway to get these funds to do the secondary roads agrE!ement. In other words, we had to sell something to get a secondary roads agreement.

In the three years since I have been in this House, we have been promised a secpndary roads agreement, Mr. Speaker, and the price we had to pay wi.ll have to be checked out in time as we have

L3325 June 21. 1988 Vol XL

now concluded a deaJ. in which we are going to close the Newfoundland Railway. As far as my f'i.gurr::1s are concEH'nE!d, very quickly it looks this $100 million that wo are talking about, well that is $63 million from thE! feder,:~J. governmE!nl, th(;! $405 million I am not qui tE:1 sure as to hotAJ i: hi<1-l: J s g oJ. ng l:.o b('! s prt':l a.d. and then there is another $235 rn -i. ll 'i. on Lhi"'t .i. s to cotrJ('! som,~timc:' i n t h E! f u t u r e , o f IJJ h i c h $ 1 4· 7 m:i.ll.i.on of thdi: ·i.s cont:i.ng Fr·om the feds. So what we are talking r'E:Hd.ly, l suppOS(o1, ·.:i.s IAJ~~ ar·e talking about · $235 m:i.llion we have sold our railway for.

I am glad we are going to have a secondary i3.greernc~1nt and ar'E! going to haVE! somE! of these roads paVE!cl since we have IJJai ted a long tirne, but the thing I would be more interested hearing thE! minister say is, instead of announcing aJ.l of thosE:1 proj,~cts he is supposE•d to be announcing over the next ftfteen yc-?.ars, l 1..uould rnuch r·ather if he Ll.Jas going to tE!ll. mE• that there was an agreement in place to be able to maintain those roads once thE!Y IAJerE! in place. That is the question I ask the minister. I 1..uouJ.cl say yo11t' probJ.(:•rn is go:ing to be maintaining Lhis road, Mr. Speaker, re1ther than the announcements of upgrading.

I IJ.Jould not worry too much clbout making the annout'lCE~tnt:!nts if I IJJ(~.r'e the minister. The only annol.ll'lCE!Tnent you should make o~J(:H' there is to call the election, then we will see how the announcements are going to be made.

SOME liON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

MR. LONG: Mr. Speaker .

No. 60 ( AftE:1rnoon) R3325

MR. SPEAKER: The han. the:~ memb('!r for St. John 1 s East.

MR. LONG : -----Mr. Speaker, the whole:~ matter of· the statement by the minister today confirms rny own reaction to the deaJ. as it was announced yesterday . What we have is the government of the day taking a very serious issue, namely, the dissolution of the operation of the r·ailtJ.Jay, and turning it int:o a political campaign. The ministe:~r

today comes in and confirms that the whole context in which the deal. tAJas struck yester·day was t.o give the government of this Province more discretionary authority to spend moniE!S for· political purposes.

The:~ t~Jct y l he P rom:i. (-i!Y' and o t h(~ r ministers and other members of the government are appauding the announcements and the promise of mor·e announcements of t:hi.s ldnd to come:~ just shows the essential. purpoSE! oF lhe dr:~aJ. struck by the Premier yesterday was to begin re-election plans and to be:~gin

spending money paving roads aJ.l across the Province.

I do not think, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Transportat-ion or the Premier should take a whole lot of pride in making an announcement and striking a deal with the federal government yesterday on an issue everybody in this Province takes very, very close to their hearts, and to see that the whole resolution of our· histori.c rights to protection of our transportation needs have been resolved in a very political way.

I think the minister today has c o n f -i. r rn ,,~ d t. h a t. the a c L:i. on s of t. h r,~ government are simply designE!d to pave roads tA.Ji.th the~ 'i.nt~:!nti.on of

L3326 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

winning votes, but I think the people of the Province are not going to respond so warmly and in such a happy fash.Lon as all the ministers across the way are today.

PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr . Speaker .

MR . SPEAKER : ThE! han. the Prerrd.E!r .

SOME HON . MEMBERS: HE:~iH', hear·!

PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr. Speaker, I am UE!ry pJE•a s Nl today l:.o tab l e the annual repor·t of the Canada - Newfoundland Off s hor e~ PetroJ. N il'n Bo a rd f o r 19 8 '7 - 1988, as is re:'quired pursuant to Th~~ At1.antic Accor·d lrnplc.;!rn€Hltation Acts. The report covers a p E•riod from rlpr:i.l 1., 1987 lo Mar·ch 31, 1988, the SE!COnd full year of the Roard's operation.

Highl i gh ts of th e Bo a rd' s Re port are as Follows:

The federal and provjnciaJ Atlantic Accord T.mplE!ment:.at.ion Act. were simuJ.taneously procJ.aimed on April 4-, 1987;

Operations offshore were at about thE! same J.evel as last year tAd. th five new wells spudded and two previousJ.y drilled wells re-entered and evaluated;

An exploration well was drilled in the South Whale Basin in 1,577

meters of water - a Canadian water depth record;

Four sign ·if i can t e v (;! n t s occurred , including one rig fire which caused interruption of operations but no injur.ies or significant e n t) :i. r o 11111 e n t. a J. r:~ f f e c t. s ;

A c a l J. f o r· b :i. cl s o n f~ i. g h ·t. p a r c e 1 s


comprising 258, 141 hectares was issued in March, 1988 with closing to be on September 28, 1988; - Mr. Speaker, this is a very significant evt::~nt in the J.ife of the board and of offshore dE:~veJ.opm~~nts offshor·e hE:1rC"! becausE:1 we are very interestr:~d, of course both govE:H'nfrJ('.!nts clrr:~. etncl th.is government in particular, in SE!einy thE:~ kind of .i.nt('!rPsi: l:hnt t.AJe get fr·orn this call for bids of eight parcels, 258,000 hectetres, r· e c o g n i z i n g , a s rn o s t h o n . me rn b e r s d o , R n d tho s ~~ p (:! o p 1. 0. fa m i J. i. ;u· lA/ .i t h the industry, that these land s etl e s a r C:! o c c u r· -i. n g lJ e r· y c l o s E! t o the WhitE:~ RosE:~ discoVE!ry. So t.ue tAr:i.ll be J.ook·ing IAJH:h a greR t. dE:Hd of interest as to the level of interE:~st in th(~se bids in September which, of course, will stimulate additional exploration activity off our shores, given that the bids t.uill be assessed on the basi s of how m u c h the bidders wi 11 bE! p u t t i n g i n to the a c t i v i t y offshore, so that IAJe can E!XpE!Ct and anticipate even now that there L>Jill be an increased in acUvity as i~ result of this saJ.e. ThE:1 level of that increase activity tJJill await as to who will be the successful bidders on those eight parcels of land .

The tot.Rl d:iscovt'!rE!d r·esoiJY'ces Offshore Ne~foundland were est. i.mahc~d by thE! So;u·d, <:\'1.: 50 per· ct7.nt probability of occurE!nce, to be: Oil., 1.?.29 mi. l.l.ion betrt"els; Gas, 4 billion cu.bic feet; and Naturetl Gas Li.q11i.ds at 21.4· million bar·rels .

Also during this past year draft guidelines for preparation of development planned applications were prepared and a consultative process commenced with the industry over thesE:1 guidc7.lines for the development plan.

L3327 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

And a computerized Shotpoint Location System was put into operation by the Board.

As has al.rE~ady been, I l:htnk, prE!Viously announCE!d, Mr·. SpE!aker, and I would just like to highlight it aga:in now for hon. rnernbers -;_ n For rn i'l l:J. o n . t h e Boa r· d :i s proceeding with the building of o l.tr' c o r o s t o r ;:., g o s h rc> d h E~ r c,, , I lhink it is in UlE! 0 1 LE!ary AvenUE! RY'(~a. '~Jh .ic il IAJa s a very :irnpor·tanl:·. component, both symbolically and J. l'l rt:1i'tl 1:E!I"ffiS. R-Lghl: l'lOIAJ a. l ot:-. or~ the core dr.i1led ofFshotnE! and IAJhich ts usod for· exarn-.ination ·.is stored on the Mainland.

One of thE! provisions of the A t.l. ant :i c A c c CH' d tJJa s t hal:. t h c~ cor· e offshore Newfoundland had to be stored in Newfoundland and industry and academia who wanted to do studies and assessment on t he c ore t he n wo u 1 d h a v E! to do i t :in Newfoundland .

ThE!Y haVE:1 brought land and caJ.lE!d tenders for the building and it will be f:inished this Fall and then we wilJ. SE!e, beforE! the end of this year, all of the core material frorn way back in the 1960s, when the driJ.J.ing started first in Newfoundland right up to now, 'AriJ.J. r:ornE'! back t.o Newfoundland and all I1E!lAJ cor'E! drilled ofFshore will remain in Newfoundland and industry from all ove1n thE:1 wor·ld and i:'lcachwd.c pE!Ople will have to come to Newfoundland in order· l:o clo thwlr· assc,~ssrnenl:. s. That is a small, but syrnboJic benefit the~t t.AJ<~ already S{"!E! From the Atlantic Accord, as we do in the oper·ntions, of course, of the Offshore Board itself.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, he~r!

MR. WELLS:

No. 60 (AFternoon) R3327

Mr . Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Lecu:Jer of the Opposition .

MR. WELLS : Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Mr' . Speaker, tJ.Je tAJill haVE! an oppotntunity to SE!B the report, read J.t, and thE!n addrE!SS the contE!nts. We do not know tJ.Jhat is in it so it is a b·it. difficult. to deal with it now.

I am just a Jittle bit confused by · the suggestion that the operations offshore were at about the same level as last year because it seems to me that last night's news reported that they werA down 39

per cent. I do not know which is accurate.

AN HON. MEMRER : ·rhis is accurclte .

MR. WELLS: Well. I do not know which is accurate. I cannot determine t.uhich is accurate, but I will check it t.o see.

Whether the development of Hibernia is announced in the m~xt

fetAl days or not. I hope exploration continues because, of course, the economy of Newfoundland bE! nefi t s g rE!a t.l y from the offshore exploration activity.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) is very important .

MR. WELLS: I think it probably will. The economy of this ProvincE:~ benE:!fil:s greatly from exploration act.iviti.es, so I hopE:~ that. U1dt continues at a rE!asonable paCE!.

Unfortuna'l:E!ly. thE:~ policies of the

L3328 June 21. 198H Vol XI_

present federal government are not as conducive to exploration as those of the previous government but still it is going on.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hear!

MR. WELLS: I IAJoul.d also 1 :ike to s uppor·l~. thE! Premier's comments about what he calls a small but syrnbol:Lc gc~s l:ur'e of having the cores stored in NetAJfoundland. I shal"(>. hts vic:nAJ. I think it :is jrnportant that t::hE:•y are, in fact, stored here and accessible to persons interested and who hav(~ a nE'!(->.d t.o see them and access them here. I think while it may be symbolic and there may bE! sorne indit"ect: bE!nE!fit. but: I thl.nk ii~ is significant and I support the Premier's commE!nts in that r·r,~gard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. LONG : Mr·. SpE:~cli<E:!r' .

MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the ITIE!rnber for St. John's F.:ast .

MR. LONG: Mr·. Speai<Hr, IA.I~~ welcome the publication of the report by thE· Pe t.roleum 13oca·d but ~auld tab:! the opportunity to say to the Prernj er that, :in view of the agr'E:~EHnc~nt

signed with the federal government yesterday in tAJhich we have given up our highway without any guarantee of financial return in perpetuity, that the Premier should not, in thE:~ same fashion, for political purposes, run to sl:rike a dei..J.l to~.Jith t:hH consortium to develop Hibernia and to fore:~go

(,~ i.-1. r n j, n g s a n d r e v e n u e Ud. s Pro v i n c e

has .a right and an obl"igation to 0 n s u r e i: h R l~ I~H:~ c o ll e c t o v E! r· t h e years. tJ.Jhenever the dE:~veloprnent

No. 60 (Afl::f~ rnoon) R3328

occurs.

We would not want to see, especially in light of the difficulties that are going to be cr·eated on the fiscal capacity of this ProvinCE!, br:~causii:~ of the moneys we have given up on the raillAJay deal, we do not see this goVE!r'J'lm(Hlt do thE! same thtng, run to strike a major development deal on H:ibc;·rn'ia fur polili. c;:~l pur·posHs and to throtJJ to thE:' L~Jind thE! r··i.ghts IJJe have t~Jon, in pa1n1:. throu~~h sor11e of the good E!fforts of l.: hi s P r· c~ m i e r· o r t h :i s q o tJ (:! r· n m c~ n l-. over the years, to secure our r·r:~ve:~nur;!s tJJhenco~Vr.'!r the deveJ.op1nent occurs.

If that happens in the next little tJJhilE!, the Pr'E!rnier· can I:H~ assured his political future will indeed, with these two deals, be put in great jeopardy.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Oral Questions

MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER : The hon. UH:' I . C'! i:H~ f~ r of thE! Opposition .

MR. Wf:LLS : In l~hF.! c:lr'r'RI19(~rn~~nt:. annot.tnced yester·day, t hE:~r<o1 IJ.Jas an announcement of an assistance package for ernployE:1es. That, of course, is good, t:o tRkC:~ care or the employees who will be di.spl.aced as c'l resul.l:. of th8 closure of the railway. There was also an assistance package announced for two particular municipaLi.t 'i.E:1S, Bishop 1 s Fc.'l11.s Rnd Por·t aux BasqUE!S. Mr. Speaker, what about the other

L3329 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

municipa]jties that will be significantly adversely affected by this, Whi tbourne, Clarenvj 11 e, Gander, Grand Falls, and Badger? A town like Badger.

PREMIER PECKFORD : Get your facts straight .

MR. WELlS: You rnay laugh at it, but thE~ little town of Badger wi ll lose f o u r· t e e n j o b s , ~~ h i c h i s o n 10:~ ·-· t h j r d of t;.Jhd1 ~ B·i.shop 1 s Ff:'l] Js IAr.i.ll J.oso .

Mr'. · SpC'!i'tkr'·r·, my qu(•st:..ion 1-.:o l:~ he Premir,~r is: If thE! govennnent is i'll" r· an 9 i. n 9 $ '7 rn:i. J J. Jon For· B is hop 1 s FalJ.s, tJJhich will lose for·ty-·five jobs, I.AJhy d-Ld thE'IJ no i: ar·r·r:~nc;J~:! $2 million for Badger, Luhich wi1 .1 lose fifteen jobs?

MR. SPEAKER: The han . the Premier.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. SpE!aker, therE· a1nE~ va1n:ious ways the governments could have gone about this business. Obviously the Leader of the Opposition does not agrE'E! with thE! way we went about it. In assessing the economic impact, not only the number of jobs lost but. the economic impact, IJJith the faciliti.es that are Nvailable in Port aux Basques and the fNcil.i.ties that are available in Bishop 1 s FaJ.ls, the ~JOrk t~hat l:ht~Y did reJ.Rtiue to the railway, we thought it important l:o rli:~aLly put o u r· m o n (~ y I;.J h ('~ i" e i:: h c,~ q r C:' <.~ t: E! s 'L: impact was going to be, and that is in those two communities. Even now the town of Port aux BasquE!S, as 1 understr::\nd it, arE! not happy with the $7 million allocation tht:~t l:hE:~Y hav(~. But t;.Je . thought that it was important to highlight thosE! ttJJo cornmun:i.ties, in particular, becauSE!, as WC:' assess it, the impact there,~ IAJiJ.l bt~ much,


much gre~ter than it is in any other part of the Province. If you start splitting ·it rlown, I suppose, you get all the way down to one job for $50,000, j .f there is onr:' community somewhr:~rE! in 1\JeiAJfounclli.Hld that. J.os<::!S ono job.

Not only that., of course, but you hdVE! ptc'Opl.r:~ who wor·k IAri+:h thF:~

railway who live in other communities that do not necessarily have a railway pr·esr:~nce. Do you also pr·ov:i.dr:~

some money to that community, because that. person no longE!r' has a job? You SE!e, it is a difficuJ.t pr·oposition. We did what we t.h:ink is the wisest and most prudent way to spend thr:~ money to hE!lp those communities which are going to have absor·b largest :impact . We do not apologize for that. We think IJJe did a r~~asonablo job, Mr. Speaker.

MR. WELLS : A supplementary, Mr . Speaker .

M f~ . 3 P F. A K r~ R : A supplc->.rneni:iH'Y, ·the hon. l:he Leader of the Opposition .

MR. WFLLS : Mr. Speaker, there is also a significant group of employees who worked for many years with the railroad, albeit it seasonally, who have in fact not had any work this summer because CN or TerraTransport has been implementing this agreement now for the past two months. There are some 155 seasonal workers.

Why was there not made for those workers who will affected by this as

MR . SPEAKfR:

some 155 be

well?

The han. the Premier .

L.3330 June 21, 1988

provision seasonal

adversely

Vol XL.

PREMIER PECKFORD : There is provision for seasonal workers to be compensated under this plan.

MR. WELLS: Mr. :3pe~ke:~r .

MR. SPEAKER : A t i nal supplementary, the hon . the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. WELLS : Would the Premier tell. th e House what that provision i s ?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Pr'E!ITiiE!r .

PREMtER PECKFORD: I c a n no t t e 11 ex a c t ly IJJ hat :.i ·t i s because it will be negotiated with the unions, and we have commtJnicat~~d t.hts to thee~ un:i.ons. The two key areas that IAIE~ ZE:H'oed .in on in the f ·i.nal. IAIE"C:'ks of thE! negotiations were both employees' compensation clnd towns' compensation areas.

The $70 million-plus that 1Aiil.1 be:~

spc~ni:. on thf:' IAior·kc;!r's' compensation, part of the plan includes allocations through negotiation with the union for all of Uw sr~asoni.'\1 I~Jor'bcH'~;, Mr. Speaker'.

MR. SIMMONS : Mr' . SpE!aker.

MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Fortune -Her·rni. tage.

MR. SIMMONS : Mr. Spr:~aker, just to pursue this line of questioning to the Premier, the impact on Port aux Basques will be, I submit, more devastati.ng i:han on any ol:her community, including Bisho~'s FalJ.s. k\lhfH'E~ i.n Por·t. aux Basquc->.s

No. 60 (Af ·ter·noon) R3330

the job loss Js in the ordE!r of 200 from TerraTransport and Marine Atlantic, in Bishop's FalJ.s it is of the order of 45. Plus the fact, I submit to the~ Premier, thE:~ port of Port aux Basques is being downgraded through the expenditures on Argentia, and the transportation industry will not have thE! samE! clout in Port aux Basques that it had before the agreement was signed.

I ask the PrE•miE~r, theo'n, assuming 1-.haL thee' drT10t.1nt For· B i.shop Falls of $7 miJ.J.:ion is adt~quate, does ht~ f r~ e l ·L h "' 1:·. U1 (:! s '" rn (~ a rn o 11 rl'l·. 1~1 r.~ !; fa :i. ,~ for Port aux Basques, or is he ''' b o u I~ t: o r' n IJ 'i o 1~1 t h R i:. o r p r· P p '-" r r:! d to take it under review?

MR. SPFAI<FR : The hon. the PrE~rrr"i.er.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member confuses th<~~ matt.E!r somc.;!what. Let me say that the Opposttion, by the tAJay, in a r·esolut.i.on some rnonths or somE! wer::~ks ago, did not eVE!n have anything in the:dr r<.;!solution for the towns or the workers -


PREMIER PECKFORD : - and noJJJ thE!Y are standing up as grE!at guardians of the• workers and the towns in the Province. And their resolution, which no doubt they laboured over For weeks beforehand, did not E:~ven include anyt.hJ.ng to do '"Ji Lh tJJor·kc~'I''S or· l:hc:! totJJn s .

1\JotJJ this ctgre<o~rnE:~nt: UlRl': IAH~ si.gned yestE:~rday covE:~rs the railway. We a r' e n OIAJ as s e s s i. n g whet h ~::~ r in F R c l~ it IJJill hCJtve any impact on Marine Atlant.j.c. As I und<~~rst.ood it. fr·om yesterday, I do no ·t know whE!rC:~ the 200 figur·e comes fr·om, it I~Jas my

L3331 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

understanding IAH.;! ar'E! t:alk.ing about forty or fifty, maybe evr::~n fifty -four tn Por·t aux BasqUE!S as it relates to the railway. And there is somE! suggE:~s tion noro~J that. there may bE! thirty to thir·ty--fiVE! as it r·elatE!S to Mad.nE?. Atlantic. We will be assessing that addi.tional impact., IAJhen and if in fact it does occur. WE~ know when the fi.·fty .. -four is g<L.i.nq to occur·. It is going to occur over the next three months. Wo hdue that identified, and it was For that ,~ e d s o n 1~1 E! r' e s p o n d c:! cl L h r o u g h t h "' agreement for $7 million. We al"(' not~J •'lSsc,'ss·-i.ng IAJhE~I:her' -i.n f'acl: thE!r'<~ will be add:i.tionaJ. nE!gat:iu(• :irnp<:'c l:.s 11pon Por·t: dUX Basqt.I<"!S relative to MarinE! AtJ.ClnUc, and i:tft(:•r 1·.hc'll:_ dSSf~SSirlPrlt: is iJOJ'1C'! t;Je will decidE! IAihE:~the•r, in Fact, ctddit'i.onaJ. e:~fFort.s should bE'! 111adc~

in the Port aux Basques area.

MR. SIMMONS : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAI<ER: A supplE:~ITIE!ntary, thE! hon. the member for Fortune - Hermitage .

MR. SIMMONS: The Pre~mie:~r i.s right in thai:_ thE! figure for Marine Atlantic in Port aux Basques t.E:H1cls to be differE!nt depending on lAJho you taJ.k to. I ~Ho~l-i.c~VE! Lhe mctyor usc,~d thr~ figur·e of up to 200, including thE• fiFty-four in Terra Trctnsport. Anothe:~r individual indicated· to rrw that Mdrine AtJ.dntic figures would be comparable, so about fifty. But IAJhcth~V(~r· t:hr,~ fj.guJ"(,~, 1 am, first of all, pleased to hear that. that is being taken under reuJew.

I put the Premier back to response,~ i-.o Lhr::~ Lec.~ciE!r' of Opposition lAJhere he:~ said thE! l o s s :i. s no l:: cl .ire c t.l y r' co' 1 ''' t: e d the economic impact, and -that the brunt of rny fir·st quest'ion.

his the job

l:.o was


MR . SPEAKFR: Order, please!

The hon. member is making a speech .

MR . SIMMONS: I a s k t h c->. P r· E! rrd e r : G :i v e n 1: h e economic devastation this will tJJrE:'ak in Port c.ux Basques, is he:~

pr·e:~FHH'Co!d to h<:·\vc,~ Uw amo11nt oF $7 mjJlion reviewed with a view to pushing it upward somewhat?

MR. SPEAKER : Th E! han . the PremiE!r .

PREMIER PECKFORD: The other problem you have to remember in this is when you look at $7 million, you knotJJ, $7 million can go a long way if it is used wisely. I know that there are towns or individuals around that - if somebody gave me ten dollars and gave somebody else ten dollars, perhaps the oUH,~r per·son could realize out of that ten dollars fiFty and I mi.ght be only able to realize twenty, because Uwy arc-:~ morE! dggr·essive .::~ nd mor·e innovative than I am. So let us not lose:~ sight of l:he far.t tlv1i: there is a $7 million till there i n Po r t d u x 11 a s q u e s n 01~1 for economic diversification and for j o b c r t:! R ti. on .

The quE~sU. on, as I said last night, :is: iiOIAI many jobs can $7 million realistically create in the Port aux B~sques area over the next couple of years? It could be very, very substantial.

I have already answered the hon. member. We arE:' J.ooking to SE!e now exactly what the impact is as it relates to Marine Atlantic, and once that is done then we IAd.J.l

fact, assess whether, in additional measures need to be taken or not.

L.3332 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

MR . SIMMONS: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker .

fJ! R . S P F:: A K F ~~ : A final supplementary, the han . the rne:>mber for Fo;"tl.lrH:' ·- Hc.;!r'mitag~~.

fiR. SIMMONS: With respc-:'C'I: to the PrerntE!r 1 s undertAking tn rel~tion to the MarinE! Atlantic pE•ople, what will bE! LhE! mechan-i.s m no1~1? W:i 1.1 i:HlY additional costs here be Funded urH.IE•r t:hE• t"c;d.ltAJi'\Y d91"E!~~rnc:!nt., Ol"

will the pool of money have to be S pl:i. t in ITICH'E• IAii.'lY S 1'10W if I;JI?.

introduCE! the extra fifty pE•oplE!? How wtll thE! fu ndt ng be found in the event that it is determined that these people ought: to be compensated, too?

MR. SPEAKER: The han . the Premier .

PREMIER PECKFORD : We will considE!r that and i 1'1 I.•Jhi. C h l) Ed1"i. C l. f:! IJJP IAI :i.J. l. if, in fact, we do it .

JI.1R. LONG : Mr. Sp~:!al<er .

MR. ~3PEAKFR :

d~:·ci. dE! do t:hal:

The hon. the member for St. John 1 s Fas L.

MR. LONG : Thank you, Mr·. SpE:~dkE!r.

In view of the agreement made yesterday, I IJJould like to ask the Pr·emier ''~quest-ion tn r·pcognil:.:ion of the many questions facing th E! communities affected and the individual workers, and in particular the concerns w~th the workers . located in St. John 1 s. I would likE! to ask the:~ Prr:Hnier, now that the company has been given three months to negotiate a spec i a 1 assistance package tJJi. t:. h thes~~ workers, .if that mc-:HHls that


the Province has given up any responsibility for the eventual resolution of the position that these workers find themselves in?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the PrC:~mter.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Obviously, the han. rne:Hnber has not clone his homewor·k at all, as most han. members oppos i te have not. 1 am sor·ry to hc:wc~! to take~! thC:' t_j, Jn(:~

of th\':1 House on this. Your Honour, I a1n c:~t your· di.sposc'l dS

to IJJhat you want me to do. In my s ti:lternc"!nt yest\':1r'di'ly, I).Jhich T l~.l·d.nk everybody on both sides of the HousC:1 had a copy of, 1 go J.nto gr·E~at dc~1tail i'lbout the whole q u C"! s I-. :i. o n o f c o rn p (~ n s i:'l 1.: -i_ o n d s i. t J"E'!latC:1S to thC:1 WOl"kEH'S. I am just lookJ.ng For the page it is on here. I can read it to the han. gNltl.ernan or T ce1n just r·E~rE:1r h:i.m to it.

MR. LONG: The queslion is he does he not have any further involvement.

PREMIER PECKFORD : 11 The Province 1 s prime concern has, from thE! outset, been the welfare of communities and ernployeE!S most affected by the railway closurE! ... In our vtew l:he agreement provides sufficient funding for· a fai.r, reasonable and equitable settlement for all existing railway employees. The details of this settlement are to be;! negot:ia t:ud lAJi. th t.: he C~!fllp loy ee s in the coming weeks. I want to clssure rail.IJJRY c~~mpJ.oyc~H:~s t-.oday that the Province will be taking a k•~en :intE:!rE~st -i_n Uws(:1 negotiations to ensure that the IAJOrl< C:~rs 1 in lC:1rC:1S 1-.:s ;~rc.:l i'ln J.ntegrto~.l part of the overall initiative. T , my s e 1 f , i'lrl d M r· . C r· o s b j_ e h i:'llH! paid par·-l:'i cular aH:ent:ion ·to this po-L n-t, a ncl IJJE~ hi:\ v E~ rnE~ t IAt"i i:. h Mr· .

L3333 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

f~on La1JJl.ess. We have~~ b\':1en assur~:'d by M r . Law l e s s , as I a rn sure he IJ..rl.J.l clSSI.Jre you IJJhen he speaks, that not only will CN rnE:~et a11 of the requirE:HnE!nts of the collective agreement , . . We will be keeping a cloSE! watch upon the n(-?.gotiat.ions of these specjal benefits to ensure thi'lt t:he int.E:~rE!St of the Newfoundland unions and and the welfare of the Newfoundland workers is protected.

11 Pur·suant to this of Newfoundland believE•s that if li"Ue full

1\JeiAJf ou ndl_ and bem~fit of

thE! GOVE'l~nmen t~

and Labrador this :.ls to bE• a package"• For' l::he

the Newfoundland IAJO r k c~~ r s 1:: hE:~ n l o cell 1.1 n j_ on l r:~ a cl E'' r' s rnust play a key role. 11

We actually pushed OUI"SE•lvE!S into t h e S j_ l~ I I r:l t i. 0 r1 b E'! f 0 Y' 1'1 t h i S

agreemC:~nt IAJas signed and said to CI\J IJJE:~ IAJi"'nt. a gurH'i:\1"1 teE:' L:hat local union leaders will be involVE:!d in the negot -L ations of this package and not just the natjonal union 1 E:1 cl d EH' s , F o r· IAJiri. c h lA I e g o t. a guaranteE!, so our local urdon people wiJ.l be involved. It shouJ.d bE:1 centered in NE!Wfoundland i'.lnd negotiations should be taktng place here, which is going to be agreed to.

11 BC:~cause of thC:1 'impor·tance of thE• this aspect of the compensation package, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has r·equestE:~d 11

.. .. We havC:~ as I<E:!d and CN has agreed. We have gom~ through both t.hc~1 dE?.par·tments r·r::1sponsible for CN, as IJJel] as CN thE!rTISE:1lVE:1S -· t.hat we be kept apprised of the progress of these negotiations. 11

So we are going to keep a watching brJ.ef on these nGgoliations to ensure that the package that ts negot -Latc~1d i.s d rt'!dSonablc.;! and fair onE! to alJ. of the IAJorkeJ"S in 1-: he P r' o tJ "i. n c r:1 , "L n c l. u d t n g t: hE~ on r:' s


that the Leader of the Opposition mentioned earlier, the seasonal 1.uorkers.

MR. LONG : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: (I suppl.f~mc,~ntar·y, i:he hon . Lhc~

merube1n for St. John's East.

MR. I.ONC: T c~pprE!Ctdl-_e Lhe tirno t--.hr:' Prolfl"i.(:!r' has takPn to advise,~ r:~verybody of t.hl~ commi.t-.mc::~nt thf:' Proui.nce h<:lS given to maintaining somE:' kind of monitod.ng r·olE~ in · thE~se-?.

negotiations. But it is exactly-

MR. SPEAKER : Order, please!

MR. LONG: Mr . Speaker, my supplementary question concerns precisely the role that the Province has committed itself to. In particular, will the PremiE!r givP a n u n d e r· ·1: a k :l n g t h c:~ t . t h e g o v e r· n rn e n t will be making representation to the company to address specifically thr:~ critical point of negotiali.ons, 1.uhi.ch i.s goi.ng l:o be whether employees ar·E:~ ob1 igecl for 1~.hr:~i.r E~nd l:o c,~xE~rc:'i.se l:hr:~ opi:'i.on of ruoving outsidE:! of the Pr·ovince :L n o r d (~ r ~~- o r r· o h,~ c t t h o .i. r· r· ·tg h 1 .. s under thr:1 collectiVE! agi"E:H~ment?

MR. SPEAKER: Th<:~ hon . the PI"E~m·ier· .

PREMIER PECKFORO: Mr. Speaker, the han. member is r·<-?.ally out of touch. I hatE! to say that, but: he is. The union leaders understand where CN is coming from and what the package is all about. It is going to be a very, very lucrative, generous package to the employees . And g lot of the material that the hon. member is now asking questions

L3334 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

about is going to be dealt with at the tab1e, and was yestE!rday. We met IAri.i':h the-?. IHlion lr:~adE!rs, IAJ'.:i. t:h Mr. Lawless and Mr. Crosbie and so on. Th<-:~y 11ndersti'\nd the parameters in which they are dt~i"'l.ing, dl'lci 1 1-.h.ink IAJe IAJ:i.l.l fE!C-'!1 pretty happy as the negotiations c o n ·d . n 11 (~ . T l·w r· (~ IAJ i. l. J. l:w v a r :l. o u s things there, IAJhether they movE~ Ol"

not, or· cc1n si:·Ll.l. stay, and conl:inue t.o have t hei1n rights in ~.JE:!IA.Irouncll.r:-lnd Ol" con l·:"i. nue t.o qe l: E:~ar·ly rE:'tir'e iTIE!nt bent=:~fits as IAJE!J.l as pension benc->.fits, dnd the like . But that is dE•tail, that will now be worked out at Lhe table and we will be kept informed as to hoi.IJ that moves along. So I would rather not get into every piece-:! of l:hE:~ puzzle l:.hat has t·.o be put together by both sides. But I assure the han . member that we will be keeping a close eye on the situation. And t. hr:~ union lead~~rs

are no fools in their own rights, they kno1.u 1.1Jhat they are abOlJt, and I am sure that they will ensure thctt a good package is negotiated .

MR. LONG: Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: (I finc:ll S11pp1E~ITH:~ntary .

MR. LONG: Mr. SpeakEH', I IAJOUld l ·.ikf~ to ask i: h c~ P t' ern i. E! r· , a s a f i n d l. supplementary on the same gE!neral ·i.SSIHo1, -i.f i.n view of t:hE:1 experience at the Moncton shops in thP l.ds 1.: number· of Yl':'i.H'S and l:he difficulty the employees and the colllpi:'lny t.hEH'e have had in dealing with and applying the co1lective agreement to those conditions, will the Premier give a commitment that if at the end of three months there is no resolution between the worker·s and th:i.s company, because of the difficulties in lAJhich the employf:1es a r·(~ :l.nvit.ed t. () move


out -of---Provi.nce to pr·oh:-:~c 1·.: th~dr· rights, that the government of l~. h -L s P r' o v i n c r:~ I Ali 11 pl. <:·1 y a r o 1 t~ i. n c-?.nsuring that there is, indeE!d, a special assistance plan, put in place for the workers of this Province to allow them to stcty here in this Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier .

PREMIER PECKFORD : Hypothetical, Mr. Speaker.

MR. FURF.Y: Mr. Spc,~akc:H'.

MR. SPEAKFR: The hon. the member for St. Batnbe.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Spei'lk(~r, to t:he Prc,~rn-i.or'. In his statement. t.o the media y~~s l~er·day on UH,~ r·,~i. J.IAli.'lY, 1-".ht:~

Premier stated, 1 We have sought c'lnd obh•..-i.rH~d assttrcHlcc,~s of a continUE!cl cornnd t.rnent by thE:~ ff~dc~!Y'c:ll r,;Jovernrneni:: fflf~c~l::ing Ot.lr' futulnE! tr·anspor·tation needs. 1

Co 111 d Uw P r· lWri e r t. e 11 I:.I·H~ H o u s ~~ t.llhat specific assurances they have r·ece-i.ved in this regard? Has the Province gotten these specific assurancf:~s in t.llrit:Lng, and is the Government of Canada legally bound by thesE:~ assurance no1.1.1, and c->.:ight years from now?

MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the Premier.

PREMIER PECKFORD: There are ongoing memorandums of understanding between the Government of Canada and the Gov~~rnmenl: of N~~IJJfotlndland for ongoing regional economic doveloprnent i.ni.t"i.c1ti.vHs, :i.nc11Jcli.ng h·ansportation, Mr. Speaker, as t-:her·e h<.·1V{:~ bec~n :in l·.he pds_t.. So thfH'e t.llil.l bE! ongoing EIWA c:'lgrc:H:~HH:~n'i·:s, d~; l Sdi.d l.cUii:: ni.ghi-.,

L33 3 5 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

o n r o ct d s , o n a g r' i. c 1.1 1 1.: u r c->. , o n r u r a l development, on forestry, and on tni.ni.ng. r~oads i.s VE~ry much a pf."irt of that. As a matter of fact, of all our regional economic development agreements, the one that has more money in it than any other is the• roads agrE!eiTIE!nt. It: tJJas befor·e t.his rai1tAJay agr·eemt>nt was signed. There was $186 miJ.lion, or· IAJhate:~VE!Y' it IAJas. ~:;o

there are agreemE!nts in place, ot" mc'!tnOr<:'ldutns or· undE!Y'stand:i.ng, bE:~tween the two goVE!rnrnE!nts signE•d by Or'dE~r in Council. by both governments ensuring ongoing ERDA agr·ec"~rtlf'!nl-.s for r·oad r'E~I·1aboi.l.:i.tation and paving and so on, on into thE~

nexl:. cr;!n'l::t.II"Y, c:1~; 1-.:her·c,~ dr'e ·For· other regional economic dc=!tJel.oprnent "i.n·i.t·. ·i.dt ·i. v(~S -in 1nining, forestry, rural development, and a g r' -i. c ul. 1-. 1 1 r' a 1. s e c I: o r s o F t h c,~ economy.

MR. FURfY : A Sllppl.e:~rnE:Hlh:try, Mr·. SpE~di<E'!r .

Mi~. SPEAKER: A supplernE!ntary, thE! hon. the ITH:~flltH:!r for' Si~. Bar·be.

MR. FUREY: Mr. SpeakE!r, to the PrE!fnier again. Could the Premier tel.J. us, with respect to the reopener clause eight years from now, if there happens to be two divergent opinions lJJ:i.t.:h t'C->.SpE!CI:: to ti·Li.S clause, if Canada takE•s pos:iUon A and Newfoundlc'lnd takes pos"i.tion Z, what security is there within thjs reopener clause that Newfoundl.and is not gojng to take a royal scre1"ri.ng l.i.kc->. they almost did under Term 29?

MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the PrE~mi~~r .

PRFMIER PECKFORD: Very hypothetical, Mln. Comi.ng fr·orn a l..i.beral. IAJho

No. 60 (Afternoon)

SpeakE:'In. did not

R3335

have reopener clauses, I am amazed.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, a final supplementary.

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the han . the mmnbc;!r for· Sl::. Badlc'!.

MR. FUREY: Mr. ~:JpE:~cd<(:H', is thE:1 Pr'(:1nd.er ·t. e l.l. i. n g l . he P r· o tJ j n c E:~ 1·. h d t: 1111 rJ,,~ r·

·Hd S r'(!Of.!NJ(:! I" C lc.lU s e that hE! n e g o t ·i. i'l t f~ rl 1:. h t::• l" <o~ -i_ s n o s <:1 c u I" -i. t y

for this Province? Eight years fro111 no1~J i.f C.~'lnddd Sr'l'jS, 'Your· roads arf:' on pal" tJJith thE:~

Mar i t i JOt->. s , ' -1:. h c:1 1: -t. s i . t , i . 1: -is ,:'l '1.1 over, there is absolutely no security for the Province?

Ml~. SPEAKEI~ :

The han . the Premier .

PREMIER PECI<FORD: Is that a question, Mr . Speaker? I do not k now . The 1 a s t ph r as e IAJas. 'There is absolutel.y no security for thE! Province.' I under·stand that Js a dt~cJ.arative

sentence and not a question.

One would think, Mr. Speaker, that in the nonnd1 co1trs~1 of events it will be Co'asy to dete1nmine, through factual. examination of the state of the rodds in NE:~tArfoundland, the Tr·dns -Cani'lrl<"' e1nd Lh1:1 r·c,,g-Lond1 r·oads and aJJ the r·est of it., that l:.h<'!r'e tAJi.l.l. not be C:'l disdgr·c,~ernc:!nl:

over fact as to whether th(:~re are h.o~Jo uri.l.es of fo1~r trti. l.E:~s or· t<:Hl

miles. That should bE:' pl"e ·l:.ty easy t.o deter·mine.

To construcl-. an ar·gurnf:!n 't l.JkC:~ thE:~

hon . member did, as a premise to hi.s quE:~s t i.on, that suddenly tber·e would be somebody in Ottawa who would be saying, 1 There are four miles paved,' and there would be somebody in Newfoundland says, 'There are two miles paved, 1

L3336 June 21, 1988 VoJ. XL

insults the intelJ.igence of any homo sapiens.

MR. GULLAGE: Mr . Spt~aker .

MR . SPEAKER: Thf~ han. 1-.hc,~ ITif~rnbor· for· Wat.:f~rfoi"d

-· Kenmount.

MR. GULLAGE: A q tH~ s t i . o n ~~ o U·H,~ P r· r~ rn :i. CH' , M r· . SpeakE!l". The pr·ess r'E•lE!CISE:!S st.:<:d:E! l·.hrtt: l"diltJ..I·:~y lctncl !; ·l:hr'o ughou l: Lht:! Province will be e v ent ually i·:r'd l'l!> fO I"rHc:i fi"Oirt t:hE'! ft'!cll:' r·al governrueni: to th t:~ Pr o vin ce , but: i: h c;• r· r,~ i. s n o rn E~ n -1:. i. o n o f IAJ h ('! n t h -L s

is going to take place and no br·(-~akdol~Jn of l:.he $5 rn-L1l:ion, lAJh -Lc h we assume might be legal and other cos l:s of do .. i.ng l:h(:! l:r·ansfc;!r' . But could the Premier expJ.ain when in fact these lands will be transferred and what comprised the $5 million?

MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the Pr·emiE!r' .

PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr·. Speaker, all. thc->. qUE!St.ions that have been asked are in the docwnE!nts . T do not understand hon. members opposite . Read the docuwc~nt. PJ.c,~ asE:~ redd! Read Lhe document. The document is here For· r· to'"' d i n g . T h d t oi. s c o v e r· f'! d :i. n here . There w:l.J.l be a comrrdttee C'!S-i".abl·i.shc,~d ·i . rmllt~ch,,,i".<'!liJ -- loi'H:! CN, the f E:~d e ral gov E:~ r·nrne nt and ortt' S:.:'lV<:~s 111h-i.c h wi.l.l. thc~n

negotjate the dispersal of the ass t'! t :; . T hal:: 'i. s IAJh y t h C:' r· c~' is no time in there. There are a lot of physi.cctl assets, in addition to just a track and a right-of-way, in Sl:.. John's C:-Hld Bi.shop' s FalJ.s, those two main CE!ntrE!S in particuldr, so you cannot give a time for it where 1.11e ar·e gcd ng to sit dotJJn tAJi th a comrni t. tee represenU.ng the three parU es and

1\Jo. 60 (Afternoon) R3336

work out a timetable for doing Llyis. ~~hat. dor::~s CI\J rH~erl to continuE:! its ongoing opet~ations

hc~r·e, IA.Ihi'l. t i. t i. s l.:hE:~Y do no 1: nc"1f~d, especially as it relates, for example, to St. John 1 s and Bishop 1 s Falls. It will be easy to do thE! roddbl;!d, br::~causc,~ CN IAJill not need that any more. So there is going to be d schedule established by this committee and as that schedule is established we will be announcing it and the time frames in which the various assets t..lli 11 be t a k E! n o v E! r . B u t that i s dll covf~rc;!d he:1rf~ in the booklet, Mr. Speaker·.

MR. GULLAGE : Mr . Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the member for w~terford - K C:! 11Til0 IHll-. .

MR. GULI.AGE: Mr. Speaker, the Premier appears t 0 b e s o:-l y ·i. n g i: h d ~~- ~~ h l'! r· f:~ ·i. s n 0 l·. h "i n g concr·etE~ t"jghi- now. We have totAJns r'l n rl c i. t·. i e s l~ h r o 11 g h o u 1~. 1·. h (~ P l" o tJ i . n c f:' affected adversely with employment being l.:dken away, ldnds and properties being taken away, and no dc.;!tcril.s.

MR. SPEAKER : Ordet~, please!

MR. GULLAGE: W'i.J.l the Prc"'mir::1r give somc"1 deta-Ll as to exactly what is happening? And IAlhat lands and properties are involved and where they are located in the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Premier .

PRFMIER PECKFORD: All of the railwdy lands in the Pr·ovince, all the:1 th'i.ngs that. the CI\J 01Ali1S ·i.n l·.l·lf~ ProtJoi.ncf~ oH'C::1 go'"i.ng to be examined and the need

1 .. 3337 Jttne :n, 1.91l8 Vol XI..

identified by CN of what they want t o k c,1 c,1 p , e1 n d HHHl t h e r· e s t t~o.d 1. 1 b 1'::1 transferred. And fJ~oru tirnE! to i::i.um, c:1dCh rnonl·.h or· l~.wo, 1~1e ~~o.d.ll

be in consultation with sorne of the muntcip~li~ies that will be affect.E!d. We wiLl. be sitting dot.~m t~o.Ji.l.:h thE!rn, wh~~re i.l: is ·in a murd.cipal boundary. WhE•r'E! it is not, <:lnd .it is just on Cr·otAJn J.dnd or whatever as a right-of--way, tJ.H:'

wi.J.l be announcing the orderly transfE!r of thE!SB asSE!tS. But none of the assets will be transferred unless parties who h d v C.;! s orn~1 ·i. n l~. c-?. r· e s l.: in l:. h o s c;! ass<>. t s arE! consulted before any final d <->.cis tons i'H'<"1 tndd .::~. So '"'e tAla n l~. to do th~i.s on an orderly basis, t:l'li"Ol.lgh a cn1nrni. l:.l::en l:hat lAiill. now be established as is called for in t:h(=! M~1rnorr:lndun1 oF Undr>.r'S l~.and-:.i.ng relevant to the agreement.

MR. GULLAGE : Mr . Spee1ker.

MR. SPF.AKER: A final supplementary, the hon . 1. h (-:~ Tf1 (o1 rrJ bE! r· j- 0 T' ~~ i'l 1·: (! r• f 0 r· cl l<enmount.

MR. GULLAGf. : Mr. Spe;:~!«H', can the Pr·em:ier· explain whether or not this counni l:t<"'~~ that i.s going to be struck will include representation fr·o111 the rnany tot~o.ms a.nd t:l·w couple of cities involVE!d? Given thE! fact that these lands, t.he lands in particular outside of the roi::ldbeds "i.n que:~stion, J.ands t.1.dth:in their boundaries and near their boundary, thdt can be developed for either business or industria]. use, can the Pr~?.m:ier explain whether or not these cities will, i.n F<'lct, hdv~~ some of thl'::~se lands and buildings transferr'E:~d to them T'Cll·:i'wr· rhan just tr'<HlSf~H·r·~~d to the Province?

MR. SPEAKER:

1\Jo. 60 ( Aftf:!Y'I'lOOn) R333'7

The han. the Premier.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I have already answer·ed that in my previous answer, ·l~.hat t:hE:1 municipalities involved 1.uill be consul.b~d on t.hc:1 matter. Obviously, if there is a business interest there, we clre eclger to pursue it . If there is a tour··i srn in I~C"!r·es t·. tht-:!r'(~. ~~~c~ dr't~

eclger to pursue it.

lil"~:t of aJ.J W(~ haVE! got to ge ·l~

s OlllU l.pg;'ll 1.: lri. ng s do nr~, and r:-1 n jdE:1nt:if:i.cation of tA.Jhat it is that lid::! dr'(:' go :oi.ng 1-:o l·.r·c:HlS r~("!r I I:H>.CCIIIS!::! thc~I"E:! a1"e cet"tcdn assc:'·l:s that CN tArill. !;i·.i.ll IAkHll: h) hold on l·.o be c au s e t h 101 y iH' E:' g o i n ~~ to l: r y a n d increase their freight market share in the Province through their trucking anrl water modal. systems. But we intend to, as we sc:dd yesterday, as I sai.d in answer to the previous question, as I t.uill say again now, that t:hat process will be under way, municipalities will be fully involved, business who wan ·t to take over some of this property and develop a business, in whatever type of business 'it may be, that is what we welcome and that ls what we want to see happen.

Our first initiative must be to establ.'i.sh a cornrni.ti-:.E!C~ l·:o gc~L t-.hl:1 ball rolling and then everybody IAJi.l.J. be cons11ll-.r:1d <'lnd i.nvol.vc:1d to ensure thi'.:tt thE:! asSE!tS and roads clnd everything else thctt happens w:iJJ I:H;1 for· th~:! b101nE:1fit of alJ. thE:~

P r· o tJ i. n c e r'1 n d lh~~ Hluni.cipaJ.ii-.·Lr::'S invoJ.ved.

MR. F:FfORD: Mr. Spec:lkc,1r'.

MR. SPEAKF.R: The han . the member for Port de Grave.

L3338 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

MR. EFFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. SpE:1aker. rny question is aJ so to the Prern-i.er·. Given l:he fact that thE! railway is notJJ gonE!. thE! question on Lop of all. people's minds is what about the future of h i.ghiJJays in Nc'!tJJfoundl<.Hld?

T. IJJOiil.d d S k l".hE:1 Pr·~~rn:i. c,,r·, vr;!r'y

clearly and very sensibly, given l·.he:' F•:lc'l·. 1·.h;.11~. he hc::td b<'!e n portr·ay:i.ng himse lf as Th (! Fighting NeiJJfoltndJ.arH:k!r', I)Jhy IJIOitl.cl he ~>"i. gn

an agi"E:'E!ment t.uith l:h~:· fedE!I"al g u tJ <'! r· nrn t-:! n 'i': IAJi. 1· h n o p I" o u i s 'i o n i n the contract for· the cont:inu'.i.ng rna ·i.ni ... t~ni'lnce of +.h101 highw<::ty s ys l':.<"!ln 'in Net.ufoundland?

MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Premier·.

PREMIER PECKFORD: I- am· delighte-d to answer that

question. I arn absolut.r:~J.y

dE!lighted to answer . I rnoan, when Mr'. SmalltAJOod lAJclS do·inq his dr·:ive in 1965 with all this 90- 10 or 95-5, rnonE!Y t.hE:•n, t.uh·.ich :i.s notAl 50-50 and 60-30, and 60-40 and so on, t)Jher·e IJJi:lS the rni:dntE!nance agreement? Who looked after mai. n lc:d ni. ng i. L.

MR. SIMMS : f'h<:1 M"i.n ·i. s i:c:!r' of l..dbour .

PRFMIF.R PF.CKFORD : The Province looked after :it.:, Min. S p 1::1 a k 1::' r· . (1 n cl i·. h :) b r:~ t: +: <'! r· ·t-. h (~ r· o ad , th(:' less the maintenance. Th:i.s is c'l t' (~ rl he r· r· i n g o F l·: h l'! f "i r' s 1: or d E• r , about a maintenance agreement. Whc~r·e IJJi:lS the flli'l inhHlfHlC~?. on the Argentia Highway when they gave up the brdnch l"i.ne to Argenti.a, to Placentia, Mr. Speaker. Where lAJclS the maintendnce agreement?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: You gave it up!


PREMIER PFCKFORO: 1\J o , L: h c"~ 1.. c"1 i'l dE! r' of U1 E! 0 p p o s :i. U . on gavt! it up. There it is ther·e in Uli. s l. f:~ t 1-. E~ r . T h ~~ 1_ e <.·u :l l'!f' o f I: h e Opposition gave it up.

MR. DAWF : T~w TCH 1~1as btli.ll·: ·t-.o rq>1dCE:~ i".hf:~ passenger service.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes. the Wh~H'e

The TCH was built to replace passenger SE:'rvice u.Jas it.:?

t~Jas th~~ rna-Lnteni':l.n cc'! ? Nowher~~!

MR. SIMMS: The Minister of labour was responsibJ.e in those days for that, for maintenance.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr . Speaker, this is the reddest of red herring.

MR. EFFORD : Answer Jt .

PRFMIER PFCKFORD : T. dHI .:·lrlSIJ.JE!r'"i.ng i.t. Thl'! better' i·. hr~ r·oad, Ht(:! less the maintenanc(~ . We t..1..1i.l.l. hav~:' lr~ss ntd i.rli-. enancH on the:~ Burgc'!o Road next YE:!ar, because tt~H"' 1 V l:~ lfl i. l. (~ s 0 f i. t i. s l".o b l"~ p i:W loH:I, than WE1 had this year. Is that c 1 ear +·.o UH,~ ho n . nHWJ~HH' for' Po r' i·: de Gr·aue? Does he understand that? We wilJ. haue less mainb:~nance on the road from Rorldickton to Fnglee next year because it is to be paved this year.

MR. DOY LE: The ra ·t.io is fotJr to orH::1 ,

PREMIER PECKFORD: t-our to one is the ratio, the Minister' of r r· i:\ n s· p o r t a t .i o n says. So it :is not a question of a ma'intenance tlri.ng. Thr:-1.l·. hds alu.Jay s bE-)81'1 thE1 r(-:!Sponsibility of pr·ovinc~~s, i. n 1:. hE:1 S (olflllc1 IAkly AS

L.3339 June 21, 1988 VoJ XL

provincial gouernmE!nts ouer the yeclrs haue negotiated ferry agreemE:~nts. You arE~ late corning t:o l~ht~ i-.dbl (~ -i. f you <:·lr'c;! goi.ng to make t.he:1 argument on maini: enance, bt"~Cd11Sto1 yo11 shottl.d havE~ m<lldl:~ the argument years ago when you talked dboui·.: nJ.l. l·:hE~ fr,,rr· y systems +·.hat we took ou er', because thE! f E'dE•ral go u c,>r· nlllf'! n 1: btri.l. t I·Jw tJJha r' u t:1 s to the Island and to the mainland and l: h t~ n l': h t~ P Y' 0 V :i. n C E! 0 p E! Y' 61 t C~ d l:: h e fE!rry systE!m, in the samE~ way as thE'Y haUl-'! bt.t.ilt ldnd-Lng st:r· ·ips .in Labrador, Liberal Governments and P . C . Governments in Ottawa, and then the maintenance contract became the responsibility of the ProvincE:'. The prE!CedE!nt t~.Jas sEd; a J.ong titne ago i.n ol::her paJ"ts of Canada as well as in Newfoundland, when the passenger service was giuen up and thE• TCH was built in Uw b ~~ <:r'i. nrr'i. n g ,,.Ji_ t h n o m a "i. n tc->. n cll'l c e agreement.

We are very p1eased, Mr. SpeakE!r, ·l ·. o b~:~ .:~ b l . e l·.o g r:• 1... our' roads upgraded and paued so tfli:-1 "i.nt:c-}l'li.'tnct~ co~; 1·.!; t•d ll be~ than they ar·e now . That j s is goi.ng l':o hctppen . Trans-Canada maintenance, Bur·gc-:!O Roclcl main'l".E!ndnc:r::1, t:hc->. Point Road maintenance,

OUI"

1 ~=~ s s what

The the

Plum the

Soncwi.s 1-.A il:i.ght•Jc:ly rrt i·l'i.ntenance, ;;ll.l. of that maintenance cost t..1..1ilJ be~· l. Co~ s s be c au s e of 1~1 hat lAH?. d :i. d yesterday.

MR. EFFORD: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the han. the member for Port de Graue.

MR. EFFORD : Mr. Speaker, l. (~ t f(l(:' say to i: hE! han. the Premier, tlAJO u.wongs do no I~ rna k E:1 <'I r•"i.g h·l- . In l:: h (:1 past agr'eE!ment there were tl..I..IO modes of l: r· A n s p o r' h:l t i. o n , i:Uld l-. od i'l y l·:hE!r'B .. i.s


only one.

MR . SPEAKER : Order, please!

MR. EFFORD: I would ask thE?. PrE!mier : Given t h e fa c t t h a t t h e r· e i s g o :l n g t o be less maintenance but we arE• stiJ.l going to need money For maintenance, will the Premier tell t: h ,,, p e o p 1 e o f i·: h 'l s P r· o v .. i. n c e t~J h e r· (~ thE:! ntoney is going to come from For· ln;:.,i.n-1-.l~nr.,nce, t.J.Jh-Lch h~~ ·1-".el.l~; tiS

is going to be less, but nr'!l.J(:~r·thc'!l. :~ss f:ht:!J"E:' ·i. s go "i. ng tube,' l'lti'.IJ.nt E:!rti:ll'tCe ln~:!qU:i Y'li:!d?

MR. ~jPf:AKFR:

nw hon ' l:hc~ Pt't:HWi.f~t· .

PREMIER PECKFO~D: T ant very sor-ry m~~Hlbc~r For Por·t att~ck his leader

MR. FFFORD:

to see that the de Grave would

that way.

A f·i.nal supp1c,~mlHltiH'Y, Mr·. Spr:~r.lker .

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the member for Port de Grave.

MR. EFFORD : Mr. SpeakE:H', it is cl.r:~ar· that the Premier does not have an answer to the->. quc,~st ·ion. l .. et. HJC->. ask t.he Premier, given the fact that we do not hc1ve any rnonE:~Y for· hospi.l-.dl.s, we do not have any money for E~ducdLi.on, t~Je do not. hcwe any ntcHtE:!Y for· maintenance now, 1..uhere 'i.s lhf:~ lllOtlE:'Y yoi.ng to COifiE:~ fr·om when aJ J. i he~ t has to bE:~ looked dfh'!r', c:tnd i':ht:~ lflc:d.nh'!n.:·HlCC:~ of l ··.hc~

hight..uf.lys, too? Whr:~rr:~ is the money g oi. ng h) c onH'! from?

MR. SPEAKFR : Thr:~ hon. the Pr·r:~rrriEH'.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I am sorry that the

L334-0 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

member for Por·t de Gr·avc-?. in t:hi s House has not reaJ.ized that $600 mi.ll"i.on -is going :i.nto he a 1 ·th Caine

this year.

MR. EFFORD: And beds closed!

PREMIER PECKFORD: And thE~ hon. Tfll:!Hlb~:!r jus ·l~ sa:i.d that. there was no money going into h o s pi. 1-: '" 1. s t hi. s y n a r . N otAI, :i. f he wants to play around with $600 rn:i.l."J. -i.on l.""i.kt'! l:hi:\t, br:! 1ny gLIH~'.r . .

That is just not so . Where we did t~H,~ f -i. nc:l HH~ rnorH,~y afhH' ·Hl(! 'Dr·::i.\H:! in, 65'? WhE:~Ine d:id tAlE! Find 'lht:! tnonE!Y ~'fj~ l:!r' Lht::! ()r·ge!nl ··i. ,,, r·or:~d t.\JdS upgraded and we had to mainta i n il·? ~\le F ·ii'Hi i.l-. otJl ·. of gt:!l'lf'•r'<·11 1nevenue, and noJJ.J IJ.JE• 1Ari.l1 havE! to Fi.nd l.t:'SS bl:'CdllS~) l·:hr'!l"l>. dr'l:~ hdr·cJly any net..u roads, except the fr•ans -Labr·ador· Hi.ghiAJ<"Y, ··.i.n l::h:is package. They are all existing rodds on u1hi.ch rnaintenanc:::~ costs are very high, and JJ.Ji th thE!m bEdng upgr·ad~:!d IAJe IAJi.]l r·educe maintenance costs. So, if a n y U ri n g , 1'-1 r· . S p (,' a k e r· , IJ.ll->. 1.1.1 i 11 save maintenance money bE!Cause of what we did yesterday.

MR. SIMMS: rh(->. is the->. ar·gunwnt t:l'lt::!Y usc,~d to get their roads paved, sure.

PREMIER PECKFORD : All i~he lflE'!rrJb('!rS oppos:ii .. E:~, IAJhen they g e t up with the i r p E! t i t i on s , s.:~y, liOIAJ s+:tlp-i.d "i.s tht-~ Pr'l:~trr.i.er· and the Minister of Transportation and t.ha L govc'·r·nrnc-)ni: OlJc"!r' UH'!r··c,~? Do thr:~y not reaJize that if t.hey gaVE! ti·H~ monl:'Y For· pc:w ·i.ng fr·om community A to communi t.y B, i ·t I~JOIJld nol: cost: yo11 so rnuch nt'!Xt year on maintenance?

SOMF. HON. MEMBERS: Hr,,ar·, hE:~i:'lr'!

PREMIER PECKFORD :

No. 60 ( Aft.er·noon) R334-0

That was that lovely argument that you 11 sed . ' How stu pi. d d r e you ov~n· ther·e! You are being f i . S C r:'\ l.l. 'j i. r• reS p 0 1'1 S i . b l. (~ t 0 all. Olll this r·oad not to bf::! pavE:~d becausE:~

yo 11 c d n s d lH:~ III<HH:~ y . ' T c d n s ,.~ (~ t·he hon. r11embE:H' fo1" Ronavist.s J\Jor•l·:h (rJlr·. IIISh) .,_:jt:~ti·.' ing lip ~Uld

givJ ng us a l.ectur·E:~ on that.. I C d 1'1 S E'! E:~ h "i. rn c:J 0 J 11 g i. 1-. , b I·'! C a I I S (:~ , rJ! t' . ~3 p e a h~ , .. , ::i. t rna 1((.;! s a 11. ld n d s of s en s e and IJJhy do e s l:hc,~ 1nin'i.sl: ~~~·

not see t he rationality of my i:tr' g Uln<'ll1 t?

SOME liON. MEMBERS : Hear, heal~!

MR. KELLAND : Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Naskaupi .

MR . KELLAND: Thank yo1.1, Mr . SpE~akt:'r .

Tf of i.n

UH~Y g,;lVE:~ Os cars Ass E~mbJ y he would h "i. s OIJJn 111 ·i. nd, no

SpE:'akE:H'.

in U1P Ho1.1sE~

be a J egend cl o u b l:. , r-1 r· .

HoiAleVE:H', my qUE!St.ion ts not for· l hE~ p o s i~ 1 J r i . n g Pre rn i. f:>r' I:)IJ 1: t: o I: hr.:.~ MJnister of Transportation. In h i . s s 1-. c\ t.<:~ me n t 1. o cl e~ y p r· i . o r i . 1-. y o rw , I would take it , since it is numbt;!t' one :i.n ~J"i.s str'lh~lnE:~ni:,

indicated that tHndc·H's IJJill be called for the twenty kilometer section West of Churchill Falls on the frcHlS ···Labrctdor· Hight}.IC\Y. In the F.ROA Enrichment package towar·ds the end, he:~ i.ndi.cal:ed that there were tu1o s e c t ions , that particular twenty kilometer section, plus the upgrading of the portion between Happy Valley-Goose Bay and Churchill Falls - even t h o u g h .l t s a y s a c c ~~ s s t. o L a b r· i:l d o r· West :it means Churchill FaJ.J s, and kc->.c.;!ping ·i.n ud.nd that you cannot tell a prospective contractor what

L33'1·1 Jun.:~ 21., 1.988 Vol XI.

to bid, can you port:i.on of l:hdt $1.9 be a11ocated to ki. J.OIIli;!I:E!t' :;ecti.on, tell me what is left prH't:?

MR. DOYLF : Mr . Speaker.

MR . SPEAKF.R: r·he hon. the Transportation .

MR. DOYLE :

indicate 1.uhat mi.ll. i.on IJJOU lrJ

the tWE!nty <~nd thE!t'C:'bY For the other

rJli. ni. s b H ' of

Fi.rst of nll. l<'!t 111e say, Mr. Speaker, I arn so1nr•y thE! hon. gentl~:·mcHl could not jo·:i.n 1ne Saturday on the road between Goose Bay and Church·] 11 Falls, bE!CaUS E! I djd a little tour of it, as a rnattElr of fdct, 1.11i.lh rny co l league, the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. ~'liarren) . Mr. Speaker, the porU on right now that we will bE! upgr·adi.ng, l:hr•1t tiAlC;!nty koi.lolnC'! "l:: E!Y' portion, wil] be from ChurchjJ.l Fa] l.s i:.OI~li:llnd 1.1\labus h. T bc'!J. '"i. c;!V8 thE! hon. rnE!mbE!I" is asking hot..ll much 111oney 1~r.i . ll br~ cll. l.ocdl··.,=!d. llllt:'J.l., Mr. Speaker, I cannot rE•alJ.y say r·i.ght. no1~1 l:o H1E! hon. gent.l.EHrk.trl how much money is going to be allocated on that c6ntract . Tenders wj 11 bE:~ called, hopefu1ly 1~ri. i: h -L n 1: h r,~ n E~ xi: 1: h t' e (~ or four· d i;\ y s

it could be in thE· paper :.~dtur·di.'ly, ;,,s ;:1 1n~·1t.l:er· of fact: -·and two weeks from then we will knotAl l..llhcll: i·. ht:~ b:ids ar·e. We ar·e not in a position right now to say IAlhr.ll~. 1-:.hCll~. t. I~JE!rlt.y k:i.l.OifiC-'!t:.t'!r S(->.Ction is going to cost, jt is impossible to put a figure on i.i:. I suppose I could get some information for the member basc:'d on what other contracts for other twenty kilometer sections cost on that road. There mtght bE! some ·indicat.-Lon I could gi.vt:' h:irn. But I surely cannot givE:~ him any indication now cts to what the contract is going to come in at

1\Jo. 60 (Af'l~ t~r·noon) R334.1

and 1.1.1hat the tender will be awarded at. That i.s sorneth:i.ng we are going to have to look at.

MR. SPEAKER : Order, please!

The time for Oral Questions has elapsed.

MR. KELLAND: A point of order, Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKE I~: A pain l: of order, the han. the member for Naskaupi.

Ml~. KELLANO : Just a point of clar·ification in my po ·tnL of ordc:!r. In ·Uw r·esponsE:~ l:o my first question, Mr·. Sper.tker·, i ~ he rni.n'i.ster -jnch.catecl he 1.uas sorry I did not accompany him up l:o the ChurchJ.ll FaJ.J.s road on Saturday. I invited the minister to go up on Friday.

MR. SPEAKER : Olnder, please!

MR. KELLAND: On a point of privilege, Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER : There is no point of privilege.

MR. SIMMS: Sit down standing.

MR. SPEAKER :

when

Order, please!

the Speaker

There is no point of order.

MR. KELLAND:

Mr.

is

That is a cheap shot, Mr. Minister .

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given

L3342 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister· of Public Works and Services .

DR. HIIOMEY : Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

I wish to tabh~ in this han. HousE• answers to three questions asked by the han. mernbE:~r for· Burgee Bay d 1 Espoir, questions 105, 186, and anothE:~r question aslu=!d in carnE!ra.

MR. SPEAKER : The hon _ the Pre side nt of LhE! Council.

r.IJR. SIMMS: T. to~.ri. s h to t: a b 1 Co~ i'l n s wo r· s l-. o l)Jr' ·.it: t: en questions poSE!d by thE! hon. rTH:! rnber· For Menihek (Mr. Fenwick); questions Nos. 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 1.53, J.f)l\., E>'), E>6, 15'7, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164-, 165, 166, 16'7, 1.68, 169, and ques t.ion No. 170, aJ.l of which were the Sdtne questions t:o all the ministers. I haVE! prE!parE:! d a response on their behalf.

Orders of the Day

MR. SPEAKER : Order, pleasE:~!

As han. members know, thE! Governrnc:Hlt House LE:~ader Ci3.lls l::he order of the day, and the p a r t i c u l. a r· -.i t e m t h a L IAJ e a r e dealing with today was called by t h e h o n . t: h e Go lJ e r nrn E:! n t H o u s e Leader yesterday. It 1.1.1as r.tdjot.lrned by me at elevt>n o 1 clock. So I will now call on tha hon. tha Leader of the Opposition to continue on third reading of 11 An Act To ArnE:'nd And Consolidate The Law Relating To The Usc;! And OpE:~rr.ttoi.on Of Vc,~hi.cles .. 11

No. 60 R3342

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. WELLS: Mr. Speakt?.r, when IAJ(,~ adj ournE-~d last. evE:~ ni ng I tAJas talking about th<,~ -i.rnpdct on OIH' hi.ght.•.Jays throughout this Province of the closure of th<,1 rcti.lway. t IAJ<'l:> talking about alternatives that we can use to Bvoid that, and expressing the view that there IAH:! r e c o n s 1: i t 1.1 t i o n a l. a l. l e r n a t i v e s u.Jhj ch the government has ignorE!d. This governi!IE!nt, v.Jh 'i.ch used to proclaim our constitutional rights, have now chosen to say they no longer exist.

The sirnplE! fact. is, Mr. Speaker, they do ex:ist. They arc::1 t..uritten in Term 31. The Premier talks about the legal opinions he had, and he tables something that he calls a synopsis or an excerpt, but I have not yet seen a legal opinion. I understand legal opinions have been wd.tten, but. I have yet to see t.hE!tn. It has not beE!l'l t.ablE!d in this House. What was tabled hc::~r-e t..uas a sharn or a pretence for a 1 c::1gal opinion. It was not the legal optni.on of a lawyer t..uho had looked at it in the constitutional sense. So lAJhen UlC::! Prerni.P.r taJ.ks about legal opinions, I would like to see l::h<c'IO.

Now, Mr. Sper.lk<'!r, looking r.lt. T(:!t~m

31. -· this is not. just my opinion alone, thi.s is the op:i.rLi.on oF a great many other lawyers with whom I have spoken about the provi.sions of this term - when this term was written, they were dealing u.Jith a particular situation, how to provide for transportation in Newfoundland. We have to remember that at that time, Mr. Speaker, there were no roads in Newfoundland. The transportation system in Newfoundland was the Newfoundland Railway and the

L3 343 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

Steamship and Marine Services around the coast. That was our total transportation sysb~m. with the exception, perhaps, of a road around Conc~>.pl :i.on Bay and one between Bishop's FaJls and Grand FaJls and one between Corner Brook and Deer Lake. That was essentialJ.y i.t. Other than that there UJE!re no roads in th-.:Ls Provi.n<:E!. ~::;o t.hr:-1.1:. 'is lAJhat t:he people who negotjated the Terms of un ·ion and IAJho went: l::o Ottat..ua l:.o get the position of the federal governmenl wore negot·Lating at the time.

They talked about hou.J this lAJou]d b<->. in l:.egrated . For •~xarnple, ~~r.

Speaker, when the federal government responded to questions raiSE!d by rnE,rnbers of Uw National Convention as to what the position was with respect to transportation, here is what thG!Y said, here is their written rE:~sponse.

MR. J. CARTER : May I pose a serious question?

r.IIR. WELLS: A ser i.ous qtwstton afteru.Jards, but I am going to finish this first.

Their serious response was that U10 t.:t..uo conuni.t.Leo.:; r:-lgr(~(~d that. a committee would be struck to E:~Xatn:i.nG c:Hld r(~port upon pr·obl(:!l·ns involved in the integration of thE! NE!I..Ufoundl.i'lncl GOVE:H'I'HrWnt RaJluJay System with the existing transportation facilities in Canada.

Now that is what they were doing. They recognized that one of the fundamental responsibilitjes of the federal government was to provjde for this nation a national transportation system. If hon. members will reflect back for a rnoment on their history, they will

No. 60 R3343

~

remember thr.~L thr.~ ·t 1.vas the reason that this country came into existence "i.n th~~ fi.rst pJ.ace, primarily to provide a transportation connection amongst the colonies, and that was their primary activity for the first twenty years or so that the Government of Canada existed. That was their primary objective and this was recognized at the time.

Mr. Speaker, here is the posiU.on taken by the federal government as contained in a memorandum from the Assistant. Secretary l:o the Cab"i.nE!t to the Secretary of State for External Affairs with respect to th~~ railt .. Jay. 11 In the event of un·i.on [ th-Lnk :i.t IAJOuld b(,~ almost inevitable that in the course of time the rai.l.IAJay tuouJ.d become p<.'lrt of the government-owned system since we now prouide a governmental transcontinental systE!Tn cove:~ri.ng all. protJ.'i.nces and could scarcely make an exception i.n the case of one. 11

Now, Mr. Sp~::~aker, th(,'Y can no mor'~:!

make an exception for Newfoundland in 1988 than they could make an exception in 1948. They could not walk away from their responsibility to maintain across this Province the national transportation system that tiE!S the country together fr'orn British CoJ.umbia to Newfoundland. They could not do it in 1948, and they can not do it in 1988.

There is a constitutional right, it is provided for. It may not be technically, sp(~cifi.cal.J.y, -.id~::~alJ.y

worded, but it is clearly provided for, and no feder'r:-ll. governmE~nt

worth its salt would walk away from it. And we haue Mr. Mulroney's word for that, 11 that thoy IAJOitld honour "i.l·:, 11 ~H:~ sai.d, except that this government was so

L3344- June 21, 1.988 VoJ. XL

anxj.o11s l:o get its hr.~nds

pal try dollars that they L'l'i.rthr'i.ght, thE!Y sold our down the drain for it .

on a few sold our her'i tage

SOME HON. MEMBERS : H(c~ar, h(~dln!

MR. WELLS: There were othE!r exarnple:~s, Ml". Speaker. Here, for example, is an extract from a mE!rnorandurn writ.'tE!n by th<:~ Assistant. ::3ecr'c~tary to l:.hc~

Cabinet to thE! Secretary of ~HatE!

For External Affairs, ,"''r. Louis St. Laurent, and talkE!d about thE! capital expE:~ndit:ur'E!S that tAJould be nE•cessary to maintain and opE:!rab:! the rR'i.lway in Newfoundland.

A n o t h (,~ r o n (~ , f"l r' . S p (c~ a k ('! r' , L·. h :i. s o n E! dealing with the question of debt.. ~ion. memb<c~rs IAril.l. rerm~rni:H:~r

yE:~sterday I spoke about de:~bt, that: it llli:'IS UH~ d~~bL oF 1\JE:~IA.Jfoundland in respect of the railway that droue it i. nl:o bankruptcy in 1934, and wi i:h - the program providE!d fol'' in this Rgreement For the transportation system will be a debt that will drive thts Province into bankruptcy in the future i.f we allow it go ahead on this basis .

NotA.J, Mr. Speaker, the extra debt will comE! from buiJ.ding the roads we will need in the future to take the freight and traffic that thE! railtAJay tAJould haVE! car·r'ied had ·it been left in place and operating.

DR. COLLINS: You do not believe the figures?

MR. WELLS: No, I do not believe the figure of fourteen trucks. You would have to be an idiot to bel."i.eve it.

Her·e ·i.s anothE:~r exE:H'pt, Mr. Speaker, talking about the '" J. t. or' nat-. ·i . tH~ fin an c-i. a l ;:u·r'C:Hlgerne n l: s with NewfoundJ.and. This is an

No. 60 R3344

extract from a memorandum by members of the Interdepartmental Committee on Newfoundland, which was a committee made up of members of the federal Cabinet. Here is IAJhat thE:~Y said about. the r·c..d l.tAJay. "It is suggested that assumption of the"~ r·ai lt~Jay and stec:unship ser·vices would be justified on the ground that :i. t IAJas HHH'f~l.y Hw t~xtension of the coast-to-coast t r· <Hl s p or tat ·i. o n s y s t cHn to l a k (:~ c a r e of the needs of a neiJ.J province." Thdt is whal~ thE!Y '"Jere doJng IAJ-i. lh Term 31, that is what Term 31 rc:d=-lects. Thr·1l~ is whai U·. rE:~i'llJ.y

met'.lns. that the federal government did for Newfoundl~nd what it is doing for· every other provinCE! of t:his Canada, maintaining IAJil:hi.n the Province of NewfoundJand the Newfoundland portion of the national transportation system.

Mr. Speaker, I just ask hon. members to listen car·efully to these words. Here is what the Government of Canada was saying that it mE!ant to them at the U .mE! that it IJJas negot:iated. "It is suggested that assumption of the railway and steamship services would be justified on the ground that it IJJas merely the extension of the coast-to-coast t r a n s p o r t a t i. o n s y s 1: em t o t a k e c a r· e of the needs of a ne1JJ province. 11

1\loiJ.J, H1~1l-. is '"Jhat t:he Fed~~ral. government should have done, assutnE!d rc:!sponsHri.l.ity for it, and that is what thE:~Y werE:~. in fact, do-i.ng.

r h E:~ r 8 a r e o l:: h e r a r t i. c J. e s • M r· . Speaker, that deal with it, other memoranda written by Canadian representatives which indicated the manner in which they saw it at the time. Item 2 in this particular one written in August of 1947: "Canada was to take over and oper·ate the raihJay IJ.rith its steamshj p SE!rvices." Another

L3 345 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

memorandum dated August 13, 1947: "Canada to take over the Newfoundland Railway and its associate steamship services and operate thE!m in a rnannE!r no lE!S s s e r v i c c"~ a b 1 E~ t. o l~ hE~ N E!IJJf o u n d 1 a n d public than at pr·esent. 11 No1JJ, that :i.s hoL11 l::h~~Y v'.iE!IAJPd Uwir responsibility at the time, Mr. 5 p E~ a k r~ r . d n d t·: h i:·1 l: .i s 1..1J h a t :i s reflected in Term 31.

Here is another one where they crer:-~I:Gd r.1 spHci,'lJ. sttb - conllnil:ter,~ of the tiJJo dE!lE!gations meE!tin~J j n 0 t: 1:: atAJ<'l l: o cl e a J. ~~~ 'L l h t h -L s -.i s s u E! . Here is the task they gave the sub--comrnil::tE:~E!: 11 To br·:ing t.ogc'd:.hE!In inforrnatjon on the Newfoundland Railway and Steamship Services 1.1Ji th a viE!IAJ to enablj ng thE:! Canadian representatives to examine the problems that would be involved, in the event of union, in the integration of the Newfoundland Government Railway and Steamship Services with the Canadian l:ransportat.ion system. 11

So all they were doing was integrating that. into the nationaJ transportation system and recognizing that it was nothing more l::han di.scharging, for thE! new Province, the national obligation to provide For the national transportation system. Now that, Mr. Spc:!aker, I say clearly indicates the proper construction to be placed on rerm 31 of the Terms of Uriion. When they taJ.k abot.tt Laki. ng OIHH' and will., i3.S from the date of union, relieve the Proutnce of Newfoundland of the public cost incurred in respect of each system ti3.ken over, namely. "the NeiJ.Jfoundland Railway, including steamship and other marine sE:~rvices." That ts what they were t~lking about, Mr. Speaker.

MR. J. CARTER:

No. 60 R334S

Would the hon. member permit a question?

MR. WELLS : A brief question, yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the member for St. John's North.

MR. J. CARTER: I appreciate that the Leader of !:he Oppo:;i t:ion has yieldPd for· a moment, and I will be very brief. I think he~~ :is making a good argument. I think hjs arguments are sound, as far as they go. But I tAJE~ll remember in 1949 it was quite unthinkable that frtdght tAJould be moved other than by r .:dl or by wab:~r, qcl'i te unthinkable. ThE:~ large. hf~avy · -duty tr·ucks, the so-called super highways, were not even concei.lJE:~d, let dlone b11i.J.l: . NolAJ, :if this was still 1949 or even 1952, you would be right .

Mf~. WF.L.LS : That is not a question.

MR. J. CARTF:R: But you are tA.Jrong, bE:~causc~1 -

MR. WELLS: The han . member can make his speech lal:-.t::~r. That is the last time I wilJ. yield . That is not a question but a part of his argument, and hE! can make it when he spc-?.aks.

NolAJ, Mr. Speaker, t~li:'lt is clear·J.y what Term 31 was intended to do, intended to achieve, to reflect those arrangements and those proposals. The government which maintained that position at one time suddenly does a reversal when it wants to do this deal and get its hands on some money . (lnd !.:hr>. Pl~erni.er· E:~xplains it by saying, oh, IAJE:'ll, I l.llt-\S only pt·act:.i.C'Lng a

l. 3 346 June 21, 1988 Vol XL.

deception l.llhAt hE:~

practicing time .

at that time. That i s said, 'I was only a deception at 'l:he .

It was political posturing.' That is what this Pr e mif:'r does, politicdl posturing .

Mr . Speaker, if you want to get tc-?.chn.ica 'l i'lnd ar·gue that t:hE·r·e ·is no obligation to operate the railway. that. .is t:echn·ically correct. I have never suggested t.hc,'r'e was. Anybody \)Jho looks at the Liberal position stated clr:1ar·ly over l:he last numbfH' oF months knows that the obligation is to ma:int.atn \Ali l:.h.in NE!IAJfoundland the Newfoundland portion of the national transportation syst e m. And if that is bE~st done by

highway, okay. le ·t :i. t be clone by

highway. It doE:1s not haVE! to bE! rai ltAJay. But j_ t dOE!S not in any manner diminish thr:~ constitutional obligation to do just that.

And fllrl:l·lel~mor·e, iF you tAJant to just get technical about it and J. 00 !c i'\ 1: i-h(~ t·. f~ C hnJ Cdl. IAJOY'd S, the Province could take over and operate the rctil.wciy, on the technical words, and send thE! bill. for the defi. c i.l:. to the GovernmE!nt of Canada, because the Government of Canada has unquestionably undertaken to relieve the ProvinCE! of Newfoundland oF the cost involVE!d in the operaUon of .it . ·rhat could be done.

DR. COLLINS : Are you advising that?

MR. WELLS: I do not r e co mrn f:HI d i. t • but it is stupid to abandoned constitutional rights. It is s.ill.y, Mr. Speaker, to abandon constitutional rights dnd i.n orcf(:1r to pr~::~sent this package to the public pretend that tAle hi'IVE! no ri.ghl s und E! r T<.;!rrn 31. That is clearly wrong, d(:' rnons l:rabl.y lAJr'ong . ThE! r·-i.ght.s

No. 60 R3346

are there .

Mr. Speaker, that is opinion alone. It was an that uJas expressed by Peckford before. It

not my opinion Premier

was an opinion that was expressed recently by Prime Minjster MulrorHo1y, who said ·in August, 1984, "A Progressive Conservative GOV(::'r'nlrl('!nt v.d.l.l. support. and continUE! to operate the 1\Jt;!I~Jfounclland f~d ilt.~.Jay. 11 Was ho practicing a deception too? Was thAi: jus{-. poliLical. post.11ri. ng?

MR. TUI . I<: It couJ d bE! .

MR. WrLLS: Th<;! then De pu t:y Pr·ime r'li. ni s +.:e r, the hon. Erik Nielson, was asked about thi.s in 1986: "Wi l.l the Deputy Prime Minister assure us that since this task force recommend the abolition of this raiJ.tJJay, the governm<oHlt IJJi l.l Jive up to its election promise to the people of Newfoundland and keep that raLlway? 11 Here is uJhat the Deputy Prime Minister said, 11 Mr. Speaker, what the Leader of the New Democratic Party is exposing is his ignorance of the Terms of Union between the Government of Canada and Newfoundland. Clearly all Ulf~t the Pr· i1n<;! Mini. s+.:c~r tJJa:; saying in that speech that tAJa s quoh:!d by thE:1 hon. c:JE!nt.l.ellli:Hl I.•Ms a t·l':~affirrnation that this government intE!nds l~o honour t.he fE!r·ms of Unjon between Canada and NeiJJfoundlRnd, <:Hid Hldi". i.s onE! of thE:'TTI. 11 What is it? To continue to op<~rate the 1\Jei.~.Jfoundl.t'lnd Railway? Now that is what the Prime Minister thought of it in 1984 and that is what the Deputy Prime Mi.ni.s l:E!Y' sai.d i.n 19H6. W<=!re they practicing political posturing i:Hld dec<:dving ·t:oo? ClE!arly there is a constitutional obligation, recognize~ by

L3347 June 21, 1988 Uol XL

everybody, that has been abandoned, sold out by this government to prouide it with some money to run an E!lE•ction in desperation because they krww what is going to happE•n when the next election is caJ.J.ed.

DR. COLLINS : That is all water bridge. Tt hds nothing the issue at hand.

MR. WELLS :

under the to do with

T t: h <'Is .'\ gIn f'! <.-1 t : de r'tl. t: o cl o 1 ~1i t. h the issue at hand. What the g o IJ <:H' nrn C"! n t ·i s d o ::i. n g i s transferring and continuing to l::rdnsFc:!r to 1\J(~wFounciJ.and, r.'lnd l.:hJs is wher<~ my conCE!rn cornes i.n -·· UIE! finEtnc:iaJ. bur·ciE!rl L:hi"'tt Lhe fE:'cl(:1r·al government undertook in 1949.

Because, Mr. Speaker, you have to bear in m~ind that in 1949 thE!re were 2,990 employees on the railway and another 761 E!rnploycH>.s in thE• steamship services a tota1 of 3, '7~10 employN!S for lAJh:i.ch the federal government took responsibility. Today there are 642, and that is the extent to which the burden has already been transferred by allowing the r<'lilway to deteriorat:e and allowing diversion of traffic from !:hr:1 rc-dl.t.~.my ont.o Uw hightAJay, and it is this Province that is car·ryJng th<:! burd(:!n of paying i::he people who would otherwise have rna"i.JTI:r'l:.i.rH~d th(~ rai.llAJay but now have to maintain the highway. So l:ho bur·den hi'IS bf~t=!l'l tr·ansf(=•rrE!d l~. o the Province by that means and I: hi. s gotJ ern me nl: has f <'~ i 1E!d to enforce those rights, failed lfli.sr~rabl.y 1:o (>.nforce those r·ights, and now they say they do not c~xi.st. Thos(~ IAJor·ds mec:~nt something, they dealt with a fact:IJi:'ll. s"ltudt:ion that E:1Xist.E"~d iHld continued to exist, and the government has abandoned the

No. 60 R3347

constitutional sold it out.

r-i.ght, th<::~'j hc.we

The real problem, too, Mr. Sp<::~ak(:!r, is nol: just Hld-.i.ni'.:enanc(~

costs. fverybody recognizes that maintenance cost is a prouincial responsibility . The building of highways is a provinc ·Lal responsibility, the maintaining and oper·ating of th~:>rn is Cl

provincial responsibility, but, Mr·. Speaker·, i::hE! point. we mRb~ is jf you arE! going to abandon the railway and increase the provincial burden w'it:h respect to highways, then it. is fair that. th<::~

federal government, which had responsibiJ.ity for the railway, should take that burden as L.IJelJ.. That is IAJhy IAJe say they ShOIJld pay the capital cost of twinning the highway and the additiondl costs of maintenance made necessary as a result of the tw"i.nning . Not the basic maintr:~nancE:~ cost but the addi.t.ionctl cost rnr:=~de nec:E:~Ssdr·y r:~s

a r·E:~sul t. of divc:H'ting tr·affic from 1-. hE:' r· a i l.IAJi?l y onto t. h l:' hi g l'll•kl y system, necessitating a more e:~xb"!nsive sy~d:(~rn. ThaL i.s 1~1hc:~t

H1eir responsibiljty is, that IAJas what was prouided for in the Terrns of Union, and that is what this gov<::~rnment hi~ls sold out., cledrl.y sold out.

The statemPnt that was issuE:~d

yesterday indicates that they expect it is going to cost $2.5

million per ki1omE:~ter to constuct four-lane divided highway. Ultimately, that is going to have ·to be done in this Pr·ov-i.nce because the traffic is diverted from the raih1ay to t. hr:~ highiAJay. That is what wi11 necessitate it at. an earlier· stage than it would ever otherwise have been done, and IAJhen it is, if this agreE:~rnent goes t h r 0 ugh as it is 11 ow I that burden will be this Prouinces's burden and that is what concerns me . If

1_3 31~8 June ::?1, 1.9138 \Jo 1. X 1..

'.'i.l: i.s too (:!Xp<::~n~d~H~ no1;.1 For thE~

federal government to do, what is i.l: goi.ng l-.o be~ for Hri.s Pr·ov:incc:! that cannot even keep its hospitals operating properly? What is it going to bE! for this Provlnce where school children have to go out and raisE• rnonE•y so HH:~ schools Ci:Hl hdV(:! lnat.E!Y' "i.al.s l:o work with? That is the situation 1~1e ar·e "i.n.

Tn t:h~~ n1.::~antirne, Mr· . Sp(:~al<c:H', just. look at the other side of j t, The federal govPrnmen t is being relieved of the $40 million a year deficit on the operations of Terra--Trans port, thE!Y ar·e being relievc:!d of an addit. .ional $20 mi11ion a year deficjt on the raj] sc:'Ct.ion of the Gulf operations, so that is at the very least $60 mi11i.on a yHar. Now, if the federal government E!Ven continued l:o di.sche1rge !':hat. obligr:·ltion, c:<tnr.l did nothing more over the life of i'.hf:~ l S .. yr::~~:n· agn:H:'Tflenl·., i t IJ.IouJ.d require $900 m:il1ion, IAJhich is rno r· E:~ l-. h.:~ n l hey so ·1. cl thE! t h ·i. n g out for. It clearly indicate s , Mr . ~3 p (:~'"b) r I t h r:~ 1·: i'. h (:! y i·n:~ \) e all OIAIC'! d us to be taken to the cleanE!rS. Not only ·~ll.OIAJE~d 1~:>, butT t.h"i.nk, Mr. Speaker, they have pushed us on the way, and they will never be forgiven for it.

MR. TULK : They took us to the pawn shop .

MR. WELLS: That is right .

While we cannot E!VE!n operate our· own hospitals and schools, the Government of Canada is being relieved of its responsibility totally.

Mr. Speaker, bc,~fore I would like to address po"i.nts rnr:~d(~ by hon.

sit. dOIJ..Jn I a couple of

rriC'!ITibE!rS Wh(:!n MinJster of they spoke . The

No. (i0 lB348

Health talked about maintenance and the cost of maintenance, dnd that it is a provincial responsibi l.ity and the Pr·ovince should take the responsibility for it. That is the same minister· who last year, as Minister of Finance, prostrated himself before the Government of Canada begging for money becaus(-:! Nc,~IAJfoundland 1.1Jas :in financial chaos, and thE! sam(:~ Premier· IAJho spoln=:! tJ·1os~:! wor·ds, 11 Newfounclland is in financiaJ. chaos. We have gol to go cap-in--hand begging to thE! GovE:~r·nlnc,~n 1·: of Cdnddd. '' And Lhey do this dE~al :in this IJ.Jay! It is c l. e C:H'l. y , M r· . :3 per:\ kl~ r· , S h or t - I: E:' r·m gcdrt fol" Jong---tc,~rm pa:in. That is t~Jhal:. l:hE!Y hdve dunn. lhey h<~ve

reversed Mr. Crosbie's complaint. TI'H:~Y hdvc imposed on us long --1-c;!l"rn pain in order to give them some short-term gNin, and the people of this Province will not forget it.

The Minist:er· of l-ler.tl.th also sa-.-i.d that i~his Pr·ovince should be the:~ l e a cl e r· i n E a s t. E! r· n C a n a d a , b e c a u s e it has the resources and the pE!Ople. I agreP IAJith him, w~~ should be the leader. If it were not for this government taking office in 1979, we would have been the leader. Up until the t"i.me they took office, even under P r·emi e r· Moor c,1 s , IAH~ IJJ(·H' e 1-: he l. E!ad e r of the Eastern Canadian pr•ovi.ncr:1s. WE~ IAH:H'e gro1.~.ri.ng nttH'E:! rap:idly, our ear·ned income was increas i.ng 1nor·~~ rapi.dl.y I o11r population was increasing at a mor·e rdp·i.d r.:\1-:E:~, 11nl:-i.l. 1-.:hi. s government took off:ice and they p u L: u s b a c k b e h i. n d e IJ 1::1 r y b o cJ y -i. n the country to the point were our populai:i.on i.s dE~croasi.ng, our growth in earned income is far l. (~ s s l: h a n 1.1.1 h i'l t :i. t -i. s 'i. n a n y o f 1:: h (:1

ol her AtJ.anti c provinces. . We are way behind each ~nd every other one when we were once ahead of !:.hem a] l.. The~t is compl.imc,~nt_s of

L3349 June 21, 1988 VoJ XL

thj s government, and that MinistE!r of Health had a gr·e:~at deal to do with it, because he was Mini. ster of Finance for rnost of the tirne. Of course, we should be the leader "in Atlantic Canada, but undE!r that government, Mr . Speaker, we nE!VE!In w:i l. l be:~.

The member for St. John's North raises the qUE!Stion: WhE!re lAJa s Uw constitutione~l. right when the passenger service was abandon e d? Thr:~t js ''-'good q11esl:.io n, so jt deserves a good anstJJer. I say to h·i.m, i. t IAJi'IS tJ.Jor·k··inq C'!ffectoi.u(:!l. y and well and provided For us an a l. i:ernai::itu~, U1e I:)IJS transportation system. This gOl)('!f'l'liiiC'!I'l+: 1-Jd S SO}d the IAJOt'kS IAJ:'i i·: h no alternative, no alternat:ive h-i.ghwdy For the whol0 rdilroad . That is exactly what they have rlone.

MR . PATTERSON: You so.J.cJ you di.d.

y o u r· s E:) 1. f , t h a l: i s IAJ h a t You should be ashamed.

MR. WELLS : Mr. Spc-?.Hkc;!r, tJJould you ask thE! han. member to get out of the House, or back to his seat, operate properly, and abide by the rules so that I can finish my speech?

MR. SPEAKER : Or·dt~r~ plE~ase!

MR. PATTERSON: The Liberal party (i. n<:luriibl.c,~) llni-.i. l. you scene.

MR. WELLS: Mr·. Spr~.:~i<er· I

hon. member WOiil.d

removed

never had carnE• on the

you if

have the he cannot

control h"i.s rubbr,1r 11101.1th?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

No. 60 R3 3 4-9

MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker. I would like to be cl.bl.c-:1 to fi.ni.sh.

The consti.17.Uti.onr.ll r·ighl ... s I•Jf:'Y'C:!

aJJ.ve and working well, Mr. Spe~ker, when ~he passenger

sc-H·vice was abandoned. It had the

affect oF getting Acceptable

alternatives, the bus transpor·t.at'i.on sysh)ln. Rui·. Lh·i. s

govE.~Innrnent has abandonE:1d thE! r·ight.s tot.ally. They gdV(~ l:hetn etiAJa y in C 1 au s e 10 ( 1 ) of this

ITlernor·anduiTl of undc'!r·stand ·ing, and

they g a v e thE! m at,ua y for vi r t u a 11 y

noUdng, for IAJhat. I~.H~ lAJOI .il.d hdVC:1

gotten anyway had thE!re never been

such an agreement.

I JAJould just like to have a few

tAJords. as well, on the Pre!rrder 1 s

comments. He says if there is an

obligation to maintain the railway, how come the gov8rnrnent

agreed to abandon the passenger

service? I hctve just expl.ctined that. We have never· mcd.ntained l: h d t 1:: her· e t.•.lt'l s c\ n o b 1. i. g l'l 1: i. on 1. o

rnc.d.rd:.c.tin thr:~ r·ailtAJay. It is not HH:! re, but ~-- hE:H'E! -i. s an ob 1. i.ga 1·.-i.o n

to maintclin within Newfoundland l:h(:1 l\lE:1l~JfOIHH'Il.and por•l·:i.on of-' l .. _ht:1

ncltional transpor·tation service. and l:hat 'i.s c,1Xi'lcl-.l.y t•Jhdt IAJ<:ls done

by substituting the buses for the r "' -i_ 'l p d s s e n g E! r· s c::1 r· t; ·i. c c,1 . I i: IAk\ s c:-1

mot··e '~ffectiu(:~. r.l mor'E! efficient llll-:1r.HlS, dnd l::hey subsl:tl-.ul·: f~d a rnor·c,~

efficient service for the one that

wcts being abandoned. So it was working well, and the

constitutional obligation recognized that, and the federal

government recognized it and

provided for the alternative

service.

He also cornmentc,1d on the ArgEHJti.a

Branch , and he waved this letter

around, all marl<!:,,d up tn yellow,

and all han. members were shouting about i. t.

L3350 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

1\lotAJ, Mr. Sp,~i'~klc!r, l,~ -1-·. rnr::1 bd.l you

how fundamentally dishonest this k:i. nd o·f iHl approach is, hotiJ

fundamentally dishonest it ts. To bc:!~:ri.n LlJi.~h. th1::1 .lE~I~ter· -i.s a let.Ler·

written by the Hon. J.W. P i. c kE:' r' s g Ll. l 1~ o M r· . T . C . Do u glf:.~ s o n

May 13. 1967. and what it says is i-:11a:~ 11 i.nsoFdr a~; l::he ,:,lppli.ci'11:.~i. o n

for abandonrnE!nt -.is concerned, it

i . s b E~ --i, n g u n d Q r t . l'l !< e n p r -L n c i p a ll y o n

an understanding reached with thE! CovE:!r· nrnent: of 1\lE!tAJfoundJ.i:'ind tAJhE:•n the federal government undertook

to pi:lY the fu11 cost of bu"i.l.dinq a

modern highway from Argentia to t.he rr·ans----Candda llightAii:IY. II At

that timE!. the provincial

government agreed that it would

offer no objection to the abandonment of l:he rciiJ.way after

the highway had been opened.

Now. Mr. Speaker, let me raise several. points. First, the

agreement he was talking about was

done in 1965, just for the PrE!rnier 1 s E:1di ftcation, long beforr:1 t was euery near poJ.itical

activity or in the Cabinet.

But that does not bother the Pr'E:Hnic-:1t'; i~r·ttl:h or fact or dccur·acy

have never bothered the Premier. Tf hE:1 IAJClnLs i·:o S<:1Y sornE~th ·i. ng, he

just says it anyway. Truth, fact, s u p p o r· t f o r· IAI h ,:'1 1: h C:! ·i. s s a y .i. n g h a s

never botherE!d him, nor· dOE!S it: boLhr.:H' hon. rnf~lllbc,!rs oppos 'i. h:1 IAJho jump on the bandwagon and say th(!

sc.HII(:~ si.l.J.y -thi.ng.

The other thing that the government at the time did, of

course , was ins 'is t t. hat 0 t t. at.1.1a pay

the full cost of the road and that it be done and compJ.eted before there was an app]ication to

abandon - that it be done and

completed before.

As well, Mr. Speaker, it was a b r a n c h 1 oi. rH~ . Now let me tell. you

No . 60 R3350

the rest of the t.r·rrl-.h. Mr. Speaker; in fact the Liberal GoVE!rnrrrE!nt rH~!Vl~1r did abandon. They persuaded Ottawa to continue . Do you know r.uhen that branch line was abandoned? In December. 1986, by this government. That is whE!n it was abandoned!

SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hear·!

MR. WEI_LS: Lies, deception do not mean anything to thHm. Pul: on a shobl, divert attention when you ar·e b l.;! . i. n g s 1'.: u n g I c.·1 n d IAI h o n y o u d r H bE1:ing hurt say anyth:ing to divE1rt a-t:teni':'i. on. II:. doc~1s no!: rrrdl':tE't' that ::i.t is not tr·ue. Say anything you want to divert attention.

MR. PATTERSON : Mr. Speaker, a point of order .

MR. SPE(.)KER: A po·.'i.nt of ordc.;!r', Uw hon. the merrrbN' for Placentia.

MR. PATTERSON : CN made application to the Board of Transport Commissioners in 1966 to abandon the branch line, providing they would not oppose the transfer of the South East Coast Terminal to St. John 1 s. You were a minister in the gov ernrne nt. You IAle r·e the r·e. You are a quisling. You sold out the raih.Jay.

MR. WELLS: Mr . Spc.;!aker, that is not a point of or·cler.

MR. PATTF.RSOI\J : That is the truth.

MR. SP[AI<fR: To t h e1 L p o i . n 1.: o f o r· d c~1 r' , t h (~ r c~1 "i. s no point of or·der.

L.3351. June 21, 1988 Vol XL

The~ hon. the Leader of Opposition .

MR. WELLS: Thank you, Mr . Speaker .

Whatever arrangement was between Mr. Pickersgill and SmallrAIOod tAJas made sornet·.irTIE1 1964 or 1965 long bE!fore I thought of politics .

the

ITli'H.i e M1~.

in E!Ver

But in any eVE!nt:, Mr. t.~li'll-: int:c~r·ject. 'i on shot.vs use anything to divert from t he r eali ty of what done.

SpE!akel~ I

l.: h ~:! Y lAJ:l. l. l attention l·:h!:'!Y ha~1 e

Then ti'w Pt~emier· taJ.ked about thE! r· <:' opE! n ro! r· c l. <:·11.1 s P , , .. h ;,1 1: :i. s g o .i. n g l: o soJve everything . That reopener cl..::~trse ·i.s dl'l dbsol.ui".('! noti'dng. I l:. has got about as much substance as fog . n ll. :i. +: say s i. s 1·: here tAli ll be a review. For what purpose? What does the Federal government und~:,rtake to do after the revielAJ? 1\Jol::hi.ng. Absol.ut.Ply. nothing!

Mr. Speaker. even Term 29 had a requi.remen t For· add:i tional financial assistance, that the Federal government would provide additional financial assistance, and look at what happenE!d t.o T<.;!rrn 29 that the Liberals fought so hard for and the Tories resisted.


MR. WELLS: Now th i s so - cal.lerl rev i ew i s nothing. Other than I.UE! L~ill sj t doi~Jn dnd look 1:·11·: 'i.t·. , t.h<~~r·c~1 :is no obligatton to provide onE:' furthe1~ si.ngl.e c~~nl · .. It ·i.s i:-1 cornplet:e smoke-screen to divert attention <'igt'li.n. Thl~1 ferh:H'al gov<~!Y'rliiiE!nt could do with _ this the same as IJ'i.!::1F<~1nbd!o:!r did l11 :i. l:h T~:!rm 29, which gave Newfoundland nothing, tJ i . r 1-. u ,::~ 1.1 y .

No. 60 R3351

MR. PATTERSON : What did the L.i beral s do with the I.W.A.?

MR. WELLS: As thE:' han . the member· for Fortum~

Ht:H'JIIi.tdge s<:-1i.d, T dnJ also r·t::~sponsiblE:! fuJ" thE:~ TJnojiHI horsE:~.

T h E:! n , f·1 r· . !3 p e f'l !((;! r , t.: h l"! y s a y l: h e r· 1::~ :is no cons{-j tutional obligation. RuL look ai: ~~Jhdl: Cldus:~ lO (l)

says: 1 Th(,~ for·E~goj ng ar-r-ang(,!TTJE:~nls

c\r'(,~, hOIAlC:!VI::!r, offl'!J"eci ~WY' E:~"i . n by Canada as a comprehensive t r· d n s p o r· 1:. a t -i. o n p a c k c:·l g f:~ i n t f'! n d I'! d t·: o address the parties 1 concern to p r· o v i d l,~ a f u l l a n d t'! F f <:! ct-i. v e transportation service for the Island of Newfoundland Following the closure of the Newfoundland Railway. It is offer·ed ln full satisfaction of all Canada 1 s constitutional obligations r·ela l:.ed to railways on the Island of Newfoundland 1

-1 In full

satisfaction of all Canada 1 s constitutional obl. i.gab.ons, 1 but none exist according to the Premier - 1 ctnrl Newfoundland acknowledges that these iH'r'cHlg (,~me:~ nl: s <:H' (,~ m~1d (:~ For· such purposes, and accepts that when carr· -i.e cl out. and perfor'JII~~d in 01 c cor· dancE:' w'.i t h thE:~ p r· o v j s ions and inh=!nl': of Hd.s Mf~lfiOt'<HldiiTII of Und E!r' standi. ng, t.hE:!Y wi 11 J"e prE:' s E~ nt c:·1 rnec~ 1-. :i. ng, l~o U·11,, s "'t·."L !) Far: t .. i. on oF Newfoundland, of Canada 1 s cons 1·: -i_ tu +·. i.o nc'll ob 1 i.ga ·i·.'.i.o n s r·~~ ·1. •'11-:E:!d to ra:iJways on 'thE:~ Island of Newfoundldnd. 1

Now, Mr . Speak e r, no Liber~l.

Government would ever sell out our her·ltage r:'lnd our· constitut:ionc1l rights in that manner. would ever abandoned or ever allow the Government of Canada to abandonE!d lts constitutional obligations in that matter. And I am happy to say. Mr. Speaker. that the Federal Liberal Par·ty has agreed that as

1..3 3 52 JunE:~ 21, 1.988 Vol. XL

soon C\S the gover•nrnent is chang(:>d in Ottawa and the government is ch<Hl9€~d h€~r(:>, Hl(:~ 1-.I.JJO govc:H'nrnent.s will get together and, Mr. S p E~ c:'lk (~ r , r· o s hH' €~ 1-. o N E:! IAJf o u n d 1 a n d her constttutional r'ights under· Tt::!r'lfl :11..

SOME HON. MEMBERS : H (,~ c:H' I h e ct r· !

Ml~. WEL LS: We will make sure, Mr . Speaker, i·. l'h'1t Ter'1n 3'1. i.s dffl('!l'ldC'!d ·i. n such a manner as to g'iVE! Canada l:hE! In €~ s pons 'i. b i. ·1 :i. l'.: y For· I Tid .i. n t. a .i.n ".L n q within Newfoundland the 1\I(,'I."JfoundJ.and por·t· "i. on of l::hr; national transportation system, even !: hough it mr.1y be a highway .


MR. WELLS: It IAJi ll be rnadE~ abundantly clE!ar, Mr . Speaker -

DR. COLLINS : ~\loul.d they do l·.: hc\t for· all provinces, or just this Province?

MR. WFLLS : F:IJl,~r·y pr'OIJ'i.nce '"lht:! r'(,~ l:ht:=! nationdl railway is abandoned totally, yes.

SOMF. HON. MFMRFRS : Hf~dr, hei'lr' ! ·-

MR. WELLS : Every province IAJher·e thE~ national rcd.l.l~k~Y is abemdorH~d t.o tall. y, because it is fundamental to this country thdt ~he federal government maintain an effective national transportation system. That is the precept on which this country was built.

DR. COLLINS: How would ~ou handle the education system and having to fund that also?

No. {)Q R3352

MR. WE'L L.S: We iH'P not handi.ng OIJf:'r <'lny education system. Any province l~hat. doc,~s no1-. 1~1ant i.t. can r·l':~fLISC:~ it.

DR. COLLINS: How lJ..Jould this be set out to HH>. Government?

MR. WELLS: That is a IndPed, it response .

pretty weak response. is a very, very weak

Now, Mr·. Spt~aker, the govt>r'nrnE!nl:. sits in this House and pretends that they hcive gotten a grec'lt dE:~al. E:i.ght hundrE!d mJlJ.ion. they say • $40 f:i rni.l.l. :ion for· t. h (·'! Trans-Canada Highway in lieu of t h ~~ r• d i.l.l..llr'l y . r•1r . ~ fl E! d k l:H' , IAJE! IJJouJ d ha.ve gotten that much or 100r(~ ove:~r fi.fh>.Hn Yt'ar·s l.o~ri.thnu-1: th:J s agreement.. We probabJ y would hdve got:I:E!n lllOr'l-:1. Ol)l::~r· l ... h1::~ l•~st

fift..t=:~EHI year·s, j n hH'n1s of federa] funds For· r·:~bui. J.d ·i.ng c:·lnd I"E!Sti"Uctur·ng thE:~ hjghl..lli-:lYS, WE:~ got rnore thcul t:hc:~t l.o~Ji.thout: hdtri.ng 1-.o abandon anything. So it is a not.h-Lng, Mr. Spf~i~ kE!r, that thc,1y s o J d it o u t for . I wi 11 t e 11 y o u what they sold it out for, the $100 million that they can use and announce now to rnake thern look good for election purposes. That is exactly l.~oJhat they sold :it out for, $100 m:i.llion slush fund, and they sold out the future of the Province.

MR. MORGAN: Your time i.s up .

MR. WELLS: No, it is not.

rJJr . Spf<:1ak~H', 1-.h,:li: ·i.s 1-.hE! t'edl 'i.l ... y of it· ..

MR. J. CARTER: The I edder of th~! Oppos:iUon's

L33 53 J1me 21., l91l8 \Jol. XI_

time is up .

MR. WELLS: I r:~l.so spokc:1 , Mr·. Speaker· , dur·ing Question Period about the other t.ol.o~Jn s aff P c t.E:!d, and t: h J s .i. s a s er·iou s rna t ter. You cannot sol u E~ tl'wsc->. pr·oblerns by giving l:.wo towns some benefit. What about thE! o t h <->. r· t. OIAJtl s l: hat p r· o p or· t: .l. on at<:! 1 y are E!qualJ.y adverSE!ly affE•ctE!d? What dboul~ those to1.o~ms? You cannot walk away from that respons-Lb·iJ.i ty, l'-1r'. Speclker. particularly not where you give it +·.o some,~. It l.o~Jould bc.~ eas:i~H' l::o do, clnd fairer, if you prouidE!d non~1 i:'ll:: r:~ll, bl.ll".: to pr'OIJ "i.dE:! j 1: 1::-0r onJ.y two of the towns that are g o ""i. n g i: o b e '' i. g n i. f i. c a n \: 1 y adversely affected is clearly IAJr'O 1'19.

rJadger· i.s onH of 1 ... hOS(:! towns. Badger wilJ lose a third of the l'll.lrrlbt:H' of r:HnpJ.oyc:!(''S i-. hr.d·. Bi.shop' s Falls IJJi11 Jose. There t~.,dJ.l be a s i. g n :i. F ·i. c ,,, n i·: d d v r.:! J" s r-:! l:! con o rn ·.:i. c impact on Badger. ThP railroad l.o~Jor·k Ct't:>I)JS opcH'dl~f:! out:. of Badger during the Summer and buy their goods and suppl.:i.~:1s th<:~rE:1, so the town will be significantJ.y adversP.ly C'lffecb->.d by th""i.s, and it is wrong to provide an alternative for Bishop's Falls and none for BadgE!r.

I also mentioned seasonal l.o~Jor·ker·s. No1~o1, nothing :i.s mentioned in this package about sE:.asondl l~oHH'ker·s, but l::ht:~ Prern ·.i c~r told us in the House today that UH:1r'e i.s goi.ng to be son1e benefit for them, and I am glad to hear of i: h a 1: , M r' . !'i p ~1 a k e r· . T 1.o~ri l l. n o t s a y any more about seasonal. workers u nf.·"i.l. T hE~cH' i. n d(d:a i.l what. l·.: hEd r b~~ n~~f-L I~ s a r·e.

Mr. Speaker, I 11.J:i. t. h ol1 1. s "' y i. n g ,

cannot si t down i.n g~:!rll'!t'i'll +:f'!r'rns,

this gover·nrnent has beE:!n v~~lny

No. 60 R3353

shortsighted. They have taken a look at our long-term interests in

· this Province and thrown them to the dogs "i.n or·der to ge ·t sowe short--term benefits. That may be bHnefid.al pol:itiec:llly, but l do not know know whether they will b (:~ n c,~ f 'i. 1-. pol. -L 1: i. c c:1ll. y or not . T h '~ t depends on how desperate pc-:oople <:~re for· 1~1ork. The,~ extt:!nt.: 1-:o I1J~l"i.ch

our· pe:'oplc,~ hav~:) be~~1· 1 di":i ven to d t'! s p E! r· r.l I: -j o n , b E! y o n d h d lJ --i. n g 1: u

leav~~ the:! Pl"ovince, U1c:~Y might appr·ov(,~ of .:'lny ·l-.h ··i. nq l~l"i.l-. h l : hl:~

prospect of getting a few weeks IAHH' k s 0 1: h cl t-. 1·: h e y c d n p l.l 1~ F () 0 d 0 n

thEdr· l.ab]es 1.uit: h a rnod:icum of r· (~ s p n c t. a n d d i. g n i t y .

MR. SIMMONS : They are desperate but not crazy.

MR. WELLS: They arE:~ desperate but bel-i.eve they ar·e crazy, not believe our people taken in by this.

I do not and I do will be

Mr·. Spc,~aker·, :Ln t.er·ms oF its lasting adverse impact on this Pr·ouince, it i.s pr·obably the IAlor·s t agreement that any government since 1832 has e:~vt-H' nt~gotii:l+.ed for Hd s Province and they ought to hi:l.ng th~~-i.r ~Wt:lds -i.n shdlll(~!.

T h a n k y o 1.1 , M r· . ~) fH~ d !<e:' r· .

SOME: liON. MFMB F f~S :

Hear, hE:!cH'!

MR. SPFAKFR : ThE! hon . the:~ rnt::'mber for· Bonav::i. sti'.l Sou l·.h.

MR. MORGAN : Mr. Speaker, having listened to t. h e 1 a s t s p (-:o a k c,~ r , i n p a r t ·i c u 1 cH' , I find it amazing that he would close IAii.t.h such a negative commt:!nt

on such an importani issue. I listened very carefully to what he had to say and I listened very

L3354 June-:- 21, 1.988 Vol XL

carefully to his points of argument as it pertains to the Constitution, and I say at the o u t set. , on reflect .i n g b a c k , I w·i s h he had taken the same stand on the ltJ d t·. f?. r· R ~?. lJ (:~ r· s i o n i-1 c t a n d t h (~! l.l p p c->. r Churchill. recall case, he had used 1 .. he Sc:lniC:~ k-i.nd of ~:!nHn~~di:·ls rn <Hlcl

the sarne sense of support for this Pro lJ ·i. n c l:~ 1: h c-:~ n "' s h c?. d o C::! s t. o d a y f o r·

the railway. Rut no, Mr. Speaker, h1:~ Sl".OOd ·i. l'l l:h:?. COIIr•i:hOIISC:! and i'll"gued against OUI" Province and d<_:jr'\inst t:ht:! r· 'i.gh 1 ... s l-or· IAldl'.:c:·r· r·euersion i .n a VC::'ry ar·t:iculate and si .ICC(!:;~;I~ill. IJ.lr:\1), unfor··t-.u ndl'.:Hly For· NE:~IAl'found1and.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : liecH', herH'!

MR. MORGAN: No member· of t.h.is House can stand today and look at this whole issue cll'ld say somebody i.n this House is responsible for the diversion of t:h~?. tr·afftc of ti·H~ r·ai.liAlay to the~

road, of thE! freight from the rai 1 to l~.he r·oc:uJ. Look be~ck at ·it., Mr. Speaker. Transportation is a tool of c->.conomi.c dLwelopln(-:ont anytAihE!r·e in the developing countriE!S today i.n t.h~?. world, and in our· CHAin developed country of Canada. Tr·r:-lnspor·tat:ton -Ls t:he tool of

economic development! Let me pose o n e q 1.1 (:~ :; l: -i. o n : I s a n o t.l 1': d a t. ~'! d ,

narrow gclge railway a tool of c,~concJifri. c de::'V e::~J.op rrlf:~nt :in l·:h i.s Province anymore?

SOMF l-ION. MfMRERS : No.

MR . MORGAN: Mr. Sp~?.i:lklc~r, l::hE:~ anstAH'!Y' l:o t.hat question is quite obvious . It has not been for fifteen years or longer in this Province, fifteE!n year·s .~t lE:~ast. Back in the days

of the Moores' administration I

SE:H'Vt'!d for· thr'C::H'! yc-:oar·s as Minister of Transportation and at that time

No. 60 R33S4

lo~H~ couJ d ~C:H:! t.hE:~ dE:~misE:~ of thE:~ r·ai_li)Jay appr'odch·L ng, not by l·:he goVE:!nlnH:!I'Jt of the day, ei t.he:~r j n 0 t t i;UJJa or· hE! r· (,~ , b 1.1 t by t h 1-~ p Po pl. 1::~ who IJJE:H·e rnoving fr·e:~:i ght :in Ud s Pr·ov 'i.ncl'!, fr·orn 1--.hE~ opf~n-Lng gat(,~ to o u r· Pro v :i n c e at Port au x B a s q u e s , 0 t' f t' () rn c:-Hl y 0 Ul (! r· p iH' ·I~ 0 f 0 u r Province. Who chose to divert? The pl~!Opl.E:~. Tl'wy cl·wsr:! to move thEdr fr·e:dght in ct more e:~fFicient

IAJay r.u1d a rnor·e benefic.i.al !)Jay; they chose to moue it from the r a "i l t. o the r· o ad , b 1::~ cause , Mr· . Speake1~, road transportation is a more effective transportation systEnn.

Today we haue a situation where UH,~ 1 .. :-i.bEH'al Par·t·y "i.s hur·t ·ing bad l y on an :issuE:~ because:~ not t.oo long ago, fl-1r·. SpectkfH', and this i. s fact, a certa:i n ITIC:'mber of the 0 p p o s -i_ 1.: :i. on s i~ o o d "i. n a c <~! r· 1.: .:1 i. n public pJ.ace and sa:i.d, 1 I c t~! r l .:1 i . n l. y h o p c~ my r· o a rl cl o e s n o 1-. g<,q paVE:!d. 1 And LIJhE:~n somebody a <; k ('! d I)J h lj ' h lc~ s i·l ·j rl ' I T F i. t d 0 (,~ s no·! gE:~t· paVE:'d, I <:trn assurE:~d of r•r.:! .. ··el.ecti on. Cf 1--.h~,~ PCs pr.wr.:> ifiiJ

l"oad and sc,~nd down a good candida~e. do you know what is going to happen? He or she could get elected and I do not want that. I do not t.uant my roads pave:~d. 1 Thc-:!y stand 'i.n HH-:! House:~ E:~very clay and play politics. They moan and groan and attack the gouernmE!nt.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. MORGAN: My good fr:i.end for· the Strait of B e 1.1 e I s l e s h o u 1 d b e p r· o u d t o d c1 y . I s uppor·ted him a number of tj rnes 1.uhc-:!n hE:! pr·esf~nt.E~d pE:~I::.i.l:-i.ons in thE?. HousE:~ asldng for· road pavement in th<,~ Rocld'i.cki-- on .. _ E:ngJ.r-:!1·:! ~~r·c,~a. lir,~

rnoanE:~d and a -r tackE:Hl t he governmE:~n ·l~ s a y "i. n g , 1 Y o u d r· 1:~ i:l I" r· o 9 "' n t: . Y o u IAJ:iJ.J. no-t· do anyt.i'dng fo1~ us, 1.uh:iJ.e

1..3355 Jun(~ 21., 1.9BB lJol XL

keeping his fingers crossed that IAJl:~ ~~JOIJld no·l·:. ThHn ,~J.ong earn~~ !:hE! mc-:!mber· for· Bur·gE:!O -- Bay d 1 Espoj_r. For· db0111~ f.itJc~ c:lc:'lys -Ln d rotAJ he,~

brought in petitions asking for I~Jhr:'l ·l:? Tlnpi"OVc-?.rnen ·l--.s 1--.o the'! Bur·gc'!O Road. At thE! samE:~ tiiTIE!, he !AlaS hoping and pr~ying we would not ansLIJE!r the praye•r of thE! pE!t:ition 0 f (: h (,~ p (~ 0 p l_ ~~ , b 8 C <.'1 US(~ ·.i. f !AlE! cl.:i. cl , he would be hurt pol:it:icalJy.

The Leader of the Opposition s c or· ~=! d .i t h o 1 n e at l:: h f~ c l o s C'! of h -L s debate today by sc~ying, 1 this rnr.ly be of political benefit to the goVE!rnrnE!nt. 1 That L\Jas his conCE!r'n r· i. 9 h t (: h t' 0 U g h 0 Ll 1:. h j_ S !AI h 0 1. (-?. S p E:' (~ C h on th:i.s new agreement, where we i'll"(,~ go "i. ng t:o SI:'!E:' 'liilOO Jn·i1l.:i.on spE:'nt in this Prov:i.nce as resu]-1: o F 1J c,~ s h?. r· d d 1J 1 s d g r· e lc~ lfH:! rd:. l~. o 1: a k E!

care of all the road work in p J. '~' c r~ s 1~1 h f~ r· (;! p f~ o pl. E~ h a t.J c-?. b E'' l:~ n E:~ating dust. for year·s, J.ongj ng and long i.ng l~or· gr·,:·wPl. r'odds i-:o be paued. That :i.s not going to do 1··. h (:~ I ·i. b I'! r· ;:t l. P i'l r· i·.y d n y g o o 1 I , ~-1 t" .

Speaker, and the LE='cldel~ of Uw Oppn:;:i.l·. ·ion ·i. s conc::.r·ned c\boul~. Lh<:'tt ..

F' o r· (:! x "'m p l. :~ , IAH·:o rn e rl'l-: i. o n E:~ d 1:: h ~=! Labrador H:i ghway. Tenders IAJerE• Cc:lll.(o~d -l-:odc'\1). Thl:~ RE~d Gay Ro61d, thE:~ Plum Poj nt towards Engle<:~ Road; Jdckson 1 s Ar·rn, l:hc,~ Bur·qc0o Road and all thE~se ar·eas ..... ther'E:' i. s n o p o i. n t g o i. n g o v C:! r· 1:: h 1:0 I--.L s t again - there is no question in rny 1n i. nd l::hat pE:~ople i.n these arEu'1s will say, What did we euer get from the r·dil.t.uay 'i.n our· ctrf:!c'.l? D-:i.d we get jobs? A few years ago they clos(~d clotAJn t:h~~ br'cHlth r·ai11AJay on the Bonavista Peninsula, closed it: doLIJn l:.h~~ Sdlrtf~ IAJay, Mr·. SpE:'al<c.;!r', they closed down the coastal seru-i.ce years ago.

SOME liON. MF.:MBERS : He<-H', hear!

MR. MORGAN:

No. 60 R33 1jS

The Leader of the Opposition said, Oh, well, there is no point ln using the rail passenger service as an argument that we have some constitutional rights here, because t:hey have replacc,~d L t wi l~h an ad~1quate bus system. Mr. S p c-?. a k e r· , the r· e 1..11a s an o u ~ c r y -i. n

thj s Prov:i nee from St.. John 1 s to Por· ~ aux BasquE:1S i:lg r:dnsl·: Uw bus sysb:!m. We,, had pE!tjtions :in ·this Housf:1, vo1~ Hd on un<:'lnJrnotlsly by ;::~ll

fll~:!rllbel" S oF thP House, against the r'E:'llloval of lhc-) r·.:t1. l pd~;serlt.;Jt:'r'

~;C-?.r'v:lcE~ . but :U: tJJas don~~. Why was i. t: d o n e ? 11 : :! c o:1 u s f:1 1·: h r'! r· l:1 1~1<'1 ~; n o

c on s t it u t .i. o n i'l1 1. a 1~1 w h j c h s aid ·t hey 11111 :; i: 1r1cri. rd: ;·,1 in t: h .:·11-. ~; t'! r' tri. c: H .

MR. S[MM~ :

Who d~id it?

MR. MORGAN: It !AidS done by cl l_'i,bf~rr.\1

Government .

We fought it togethE!r as a party and a Pr·ovi.nce - the:1 ttJJO p;u·ties.

MR. CALLAN : No, Joe did away with it .

MR. MORGAN: No, this is the rail StH'Vi.ce.

So to r:'lrgiH~ suddE!nly thdt a change undt:'r Ter·m 31 Tc·H'IrlS oF Urdon -·

MR. SJ.Mr.IJONS :

passenger

t I'HH' ~~ -L s of the

ThE!rC-! is and thc.d: is alJ thE:!rE:! is.

SOME liON. r.IJFMR E RS: Oh, oh!

MR. MORCAN : Mr·. Speaker, why !Alas there no ar·gument wht~n we lost our· coas L.-~1 boat service along the coast of N E:11..1lf o u n d l a n d , _ b o t: h t h P. 1\J o r t. h ~~ a s t Coast and the South Coast, a VE!ry impor't.i'lnt ser•uice which was ti'lken

L3 3 ~6 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

away under the same Term? wer·E~ tht~ Ar·gent.ta, Bonavi.sta Carbonear br·anch lines takE!n and not replaced?

Why and

away

My good fr -L enrl over there for Twillingate, I can see him now lJE!t' IJ much oppos t:1d and Fighting

ve:1hernentJ.y as a ME>rrtbE!r of P a r 1 i r'llfl ~~ n ;·: , IAJ 'i. 1-. h a 11 NE!IJ.IfoundlandE!Y'S behind him, do no{: Cd k (:' r:11Aii''IJ our' pas')::! ngf~ r- s f'! r·u ·L c r:• ! It IAJas shown quite cJ.ear·J.y at l:.hat U . liW' r'll'lcl l·.h :~ hon . +: hf~ Hll'!lllbHr' r~or·

TtAiilJtngal:E! is atAiar·e of Ur:is, that·. L h 0.! r· C! 1~1r-1 :; n n cons L i .. , .. 1.1 t·: .-i. on c1 1 argument which could be put FOl" l~lt.H'd l".hi.'\l: Ol.t.diAid IAJOU l. cl recognize. But suddenly, Mr . Spc:1C:·1kt-:!r, +:.h(:' l.~'!i:\cler· of l".ht;! Opposition is going to ar·gue thE! only d t' g 1.1 HJ(~ n l: h c-?. has to t l" y to offset this massive spending p r· o g r· a rn , 1.v hi c h ·'i, s g o ·L n g 1:: o b to?. of benefit to this governmE!nt. which i.s that Uwrc,~ hHs to br:~ a lega1 way under the Constitutjon to make sure they maintain the railway .

Mr. SpeakE!r. thE! :issue is not: mt:l. ·.-i.nta.·.in·illg l:he r·allt~o.li:'liJ. lrJho wants to maintain it? It is gone!

Last year, gt:d:U.ng 20 freight

Mr. Speaker, pE!t' c~:!nt-. of

movement in

IJ.IE' all

Pro v-i. n c e . F o 1 1 r· I)(~ o"H' S a q 0 IJJC"! 34 p(:H' cent, and it has

tJJe re t:he

this had

bE'('!n C!)l'ni.nq 1970s .

cl 01Alrl Nobody

s :i. n c; r:~ t h f'! (:1 a r··ly is usj ng the l"ai1

s l:! r· lJ :i. !:C:1 1"1'11) 1110 r· c) •

MR. YOUNG : I) n '~ s 1'. h t-:1 m C.:! Ill b E! r· f n r· R u r g r::! o d 1 Espoir use it?

Bay

MR. MORGAN: The fact is the Government of Canada had and relieve public cost, it.

No. 60

a right lo take over the Province of that

but not l~_ o rnr:.tintain

R3356

Thf:~ only r.\ryl.llnent l:h<::~y <H'l~ usi.ng, Mr·. Speaker, ts, Oh, well, fifteen yt:~clr'S dOIJJJ'l t-.he t'l)o'\ d IJlht,Hl i:hr~y g~;:~j~

Hd.s 1'10-l~l h'.ight1.JCI.Y bu:ill: - I can see :U .: noiJJ, in UH~ n,,,x+: h*''lllt~ HJon l·.h per· ·i od, bul J do7er·:. and pav'.i ng JnCl c h ·i. n ,,~ s o:1ll. o v P r· t h c~ pl."' c ~::' , r-1 n d a] 1 ovE~r the place on the rr·ans ··C<!ln<'ldi:l lhghJJldY s-i.gns up for· you to 1.uatch our fo1" a]] the e1cLi.viL:ies.

SOME liON . ME'MB f~ RS: Hear, hE!ar!

MR. MOI~GAN:

Oh, boy! Great! And someonE! wjJJ. say, 'Yc,~s, but Mr·. W<::1l.ls, l.l,~ad(·"r'

of the Opposition and Leader of thr:' '-'i.b(:n·al Party in NPJAJfoundland, is concerned about one major thing.' 'WI'ldt is th<:lt:?' 1 HH~ movement of dangerous goods on the hi.ghway. 1 The-:! movt:}lllent of dangerous goods on the highway.

M r . S p ~~ <~ k 0. r· , h c-:~ -i. s c: on c C'! r· n c~ d <!I b o 1.1 1: t h f:~ b u r· d E:1 n o n t h ::i s P r o v i n c e of lflcd.nl<·l i.n ·i ng 1:hl:1 hi.ghlJld.Y, IAlhHn d1H'ir1g thE:! '6'~ Dr:ivE~, and I r·eca1l i . ~~ q 1 1 i . ·i: 1,1 c 1 c-:1 c:1 t' l. y ·!·. h r-~ I . c,1 d d f:! r· o f 'l"lw Opposition Pt:lrty has good r·~>.ason l::o sh:ly <;\l~ld.Y fr·om Uu>. Housl':' tJJhE:Hl this man stands to speak, bece1use he i s dl.ways afrc:1id of 1~1hat I cHII goj ng to say.

AN HON. MFM8ER : About his s.:1l.ary?

MR. MORGAN: No, no. Back in the mc-:!lnbc-:!Y' J.o~Jas man in Western lawyer. Not only he was a bus'lnessman.

AN HON. MEMBER: Yes?

. MR . MORGAI\J:

the days of 1965, a very prominent

Newfoundland, a WCI.S he a lawyer, very prominent

Yii:~s. indE:1E!d. He was very much

U357 JllnP ?.l, 19133 Vol. XL

·i.ntJo l11 C'!d 'i. n b11s i rw s s. T I~Jould say, Mr. Speaker, he was a very SIJCCf:~!)!;Flll biJs ·i.nPssrnAn, dnd mor·e power to hj m. But do you recall 1 F·i. n·i ~;h l:ht~ Dt·J.'H~ ·i. n '()!:)? Do yo11 rc,~ca] 1 t.uhat we got for· the Dr·'.ive 'i. n 1 6 !:i? ~\1~~ <'~ l.l. s i_·\IAl 1~1h d I~ ~~H'! got: for· the DJ"jVH in '6r). WE~ ~~ot a r· o .:-1 c:l 1~1 h "i. c h -i s s u b s t: "'n dar· d , second-class, the main reason bE:1-i.ng t:hc,1 contractor'S d.t thdt t-.irnc->. were incompetent .

MR. PATTERSON : And cost-plus.

MR. MORGAN: And !:he cost ... plus ;u·r·angeJnc,~nts .

The hon. gentleman shou]d know . HE~ J.o~Ja s l n v o J. v (:~ d JAd. ·(: h d coup l. 1:=> .

SOME l-ION. MEMBERS : Oh! Oh!

MR. MORGAN: Oh, yE:1s, a sharE:'ho]dE!I~ in COinp.:~nic,1~; IJlh i. ch l.o~H:~t'f~ ·:i.nvolved "i. n buiJdjng the highJAJay in 1965, IAlhE!I1 Mr· . ~')JndlliJJood br·ought <-1ll l:.h'i.s monc,,y j n.

Mr. Speaker, since 1965, JJJhE!I'l the r'Oi:ld I~J<'IS f·i.n :i.shed, l.o~H:! h1'\VE! had a substandard highway all across Hli. ~; P r· o IJ i n c e , r· i . g h {-_ f r o rn P o r· t a u x Basques, up until a fE!L\J YE!ar s ago when we werP successful ln arranging major funding for the Tr'i:HlS .. Cdni·ldd Htgh1Ald.Y. Up unt·.i.l that time, we had a substandard highway across our Province and, in most cases, we had to place restrictions on truck traff·i.c.

Mr . Speaker, what I .~m saying is we have maintained that highway since then at a cosl: t:o the taxpayers of this ProvincE!. NoJAJ i.f J~H:~ could ~:~ffor·d to rnal.nti:dn a substandard highway, very much s 1.1 b s +. ,,, n d r:H' d , f o t' f 'i. f ., .. _ E:H! n y ear!> - ·

MR. FFFORD:

~.Jo. 60 R3357

How much is a railway car worth (inaudible)?

MR. MORGAN: Now, gentlemen, lei-. rnc~ f-i.nish.

We maintained a substandard

highway for fifteen years,

st. r·i. c t 1 1J Net;,Jf o u nd l. and Go vI:! r· nrnEHl t

dollar's . We did that. Now suddc,~nly I;,Je S(~t'! d $'WS 1tdll t on

program g o ing into the

T r· eHl s ··· C ;:-nl d d d I h. g h l~kl y ·i: o i rn p r' o v e

::it· , to make it saf e r'. We ar· e

go t ng 1-:o l·: 1~r·i. n lH fJf'!Y' Cl'!nl: of i: hu

h:ighLIIdY , U1e only pl" ovince :in (.') 1: l. ,_..,., t-. :i. c c Rt'l a d <'I 1~rU: h 1. 8 p r-H' c 1'! n 1:

huj nn:ing.

MS UF:"RGF : Th•:\ i . 1. s on f·. 0 fl () f I~J h i:l t I~J (:~ hdd

bef CH'Cc!.

MR. MORGAN : That is on ~op of what we had bE:!fore and what IAJI::~ did before. We

are going l~o SE:'E! a rnoder·n, ai~

least rnode!rn compared to 1965,

when we had a substandard cow path

bu:i]t across the Provtnce. That

is what it was, d l.ii:t.le nar-r-otAJ

two lane road. But we have

maintained that old road at our

cost. For fifteen or sixteen

y ~::~ a t' s , t h E~ t a x p a y E! r· s o f Newfoundland totally covered that

CO!;t. NOIAI lAIC'! ar'e gE~l:t:i. ng i'l bi.g

new road bui:i t and the Opposition

say I 11 0h' hell;,) iH'e you go-Lng l:o ~H~

able to afford to maintain that r· o c'\ d o v c,~ r· 1·.·. h ~~ n c~ x t f ·i. f l: f~ c,~ n y ~~ t'l r' s ?

How you go::i ng to be a b) e to affor·d

i-:o llk\·ird:,:·d.n i. l:? Yo11 h<:lt.Jr~ no monf:~Y

to keE:~p thE~ hosp'itals go:ing? You

c<:~nnot bu"i.l.d new schools.

Mr· . Sp~->.dkE:H', U11,~ s:i.l:lli·\1: -i. on ·1.s,

quite clearly, that the

nJdi. nt:f:~nanco oU'gl . llrtf:~nl : i.s Ollt-. i.:h~~

IAJ::i ndot.u. It is d rE:'d h~:!rr·j ng. I llldt'l<c~i··. l.oh; of I·H~ r·r··i.ng i-.hto~SP dt'lys,

and it :is a rc,~d her-ring.

1,.3358 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

SOME HON. MEMBERS: H e d r , hear· !

MR. MORGAN: Mr·. Spc,~r:~l<tn·, lt~t us go back to thE!

point I made i ni U ally . ThE!

t'ai.li..IJdY ·.is no long1::'r' a l::ool IAih .lch

can be used for our dE:' VE!J.opmE!nt .

II·: c.:~nnol:. be USE~ d ,:,nyrnor·r=• to i::i.e into any economic d e velopme nt we h c:-~ tJ P p r· o p o s (~ d o r· p l a 11 n E:! d f o r· l:: h e

futUJ~e, none, s o W E:~ hav e to ha vE!

d n d rl :=! q u d L r'' 1: r' i"o"t n s p or· l··. d 1: j . o n s y s l:: u 111 .

A r· tc~ n o l: !"". h c,, p f:! o p l t~ -j n B 1.1 t ' g t:• o

en t itled to a paved road? Over

h :=! r' t:! llll'! ~; .:-~ y y P s . (1 r· (,' f·: h E'! p ~=! o p] H

jn t:.he Plum Po i nt rH' E!a, up t o Rodd:i.r:kt:on dncl Fngl. t,~ ('!, (c' nl ·. ·it :l.P cl t.o

a paved road? Sure they are. Are

l:: h t;! pI"' I) p l (~ 0 F 1·: h t" n 0 n d v "i. s t cl Peninsula entitled to a new

hi.ghtlldiJ, l.inkc,~cl 1-.o H11->. Tt'r:Hls Canada Highway? Yes t.hE:~Y ar·e, and

l:l'w y a r' e go ·i. n g '1: o g e t: i t .


MR. MORGAN: Nobody mor·~~ vic i ou s ly oppo s ed t-Jw

closing of the Bonavista branch

line of i-.he r·aoi.h1ay !:.han this rnan

here, as the mE!mber for the arE! a .

I opposed "i.t viciously here and 1n

Ottawa at me e tings of the T r· d n s pori-. d 1:. i. on Co rnrn t t. t. e (~ , in the

minister • s office and, on one

occasion, in t:h f'! Pr· -i.tne M-i.nisLc~r·• s

off'ic e. We fought it, but thE! i . ss111:~ IAk\ S d*~<'~rl. HP l.ookf:!d iTJ(.:I

str·aight in th e eye and said, 11 Mr .

ri!Ot'tjdl'l, ·jn I)OIIr' oH'Io'i'l, I~Jho ·i!; Us-.i.ng

thE! ndJway? 11 I hfld to J.ook bf.lck

<:Hld hon~'S 1-.l.y sdy, 11 Tt~Jo

bus i nE:! ssE:~ s . 11 That. was a 1.1 I co u J d r ·i. n rl 1~1 h!) l~lf~ I''(~

the BonavJst:a t'l.t'gi .IIIH~ n[: !~IdS

constitutional o t h f:~ r· !< i. n d o f gone. Nobody

m o tJ · i. n 9 f t ' e -i. g h 1-. o v e r br·anch line. So the

all. gone. The argument or any

<H'9UiriE!I'li-., i. t 1/Jd S cl11. wanted to use the

t' a i. 1.1~1 a y b e c: a u ~; E! "i. t was ineffi c ient-:

No . 60 R3358

in moui ng frE:~i.g h L

Ml". Spf~•·lkr,~r·, on i:he i. ss1Jr~ of t·:h1,~ qur.wt:i.b E:~s of funds, there is no q u E:~ s t-: i. on . T h l-) r· c~ i. ·; Cl f i f l-. (,~ E:' n y ~,~·'I r· J"E:~opener c] ausc->.. The leader· of l:ht~ Oppo:;i.1·. ·i.on sho11ld not: l·.o:;:; ·that· k:i nd of a tl'd ng out, a rPopr'!l'll:~r· cl.di.JS!:~ e i.gh l: YE!•:-lr's do1~1n t-1'1(:! J"oad. J Hd nk I can quote ft'Oifl hi. s COiflniP.I11S. Jip Srri.d i 1: l,tlr.lS

I mad e notE! of IAI h d t he had l o s;:-1y. Mdybu '[ cl··i.d not·:, br:!CiiiiJ~;f'! T: d:i d no l t:hj nk it IAJas not:. so .lmportan t -- USf'!l.C'!S s. It IAJas only a sruokescr·een, 1.uas the tE!rm hE! usE:'d. Yc,~ster·day ~H:~ askt~d -me .if he cou]d find a hypocrite in the House->.. I recdll. his conuc,~r·sal: 'i.on back and Forth across the HouSE!. He said, 'Yo1.1 IAJoul.d not knotJJ IAJhal: hypocrite really means.' Well, we had a good l,~xampl.e i:his afternoon. A man stands up and condemns a gour;!t'rllllfHlt Llll'l''i.ch has a reopener clause ejght years from noiAJ -Ln <.·l major' agrePmnnt. for· t:hi. s Prouince, and he says it is a ~;mok(~scr·een, 'i.l: i. s r·-Ld:i.cul.oLts, thc;!J"E! is no nE:'ed for :it to bE' UHH'e •'l.l: .:d l., :i.l': -i :; Cl:~r· lJi"i. nl.y not: go:ing to rtl(~an a thing. The same illi'l.n IMhO Sdi.d i·.hdl: toddy, b.'l.ck 'i.n the days when h (~~ tl..la s in the g o u (:!r' n 111 E! n t o f t·: h ~~' cl .:-1 y .'1. g r· l'! l'! cl l". o i·l

Churchtll Fulls contract. for sixly · · fi.u~::~ yu.:-tr's lll'i.t:h no r·t~Op!Hl~!t' cluuse. Slxty ---fjue yE:~ars iAdth no r'l->.opener' cldUSl~~- To rn:~, Mr'. Speaker, that alone is a c]ear deflniLion of the word 'hypocri l:e' . It clear·ly defines the wor·d hypocr·i tt~.

The i.ssLH?. concern. is up? from the

of mon-i. es is of waj or· Does this mean my time

It. is just d fool.i.sh note Opposition?

Mr·. Spc->.aker·, euer·y mE!rnber IJJ h d t. i s g o i. n g

thE~ mr.1j or· ccmc(:!r·n of oUE!r' there today is to bt~ th!::' r·~:!suJ.l: of

th:i s spending between nou1 and

1..3359 Jum~ /.1., l9BE3 lJol. XL

e->.lect ·i.on l·: 'i.111e. Th(;! Pr'Hrni. l-:H' I do not Udnk is a UE!I''Y naiue poJ.'i.t:i. c ·i.;,,n. !·lr~' i.s not go-:i.ng f.:o cal] an election until he gets i:. h o s t~ b 1 1ll d o :1. l'! r' s ,., n d p .:-1 u ·i n g n1ach:ines going al] ouer t ·.he P r· o LJ i n .: t~ i·i n d t'! LH'r' y b o d y ·i_ s ~; d y i n q , ' 0 h , g r· eat s tuff ! L o o k at a 11 1·.h;'l.t P•'I'.J i.ng cotn ·i ng', doiAIIl -Ln l·:h!::' I iberaJ dJstricts in particular, dnd i·.h;'ll: i . :; t·.he lfldjor· cuncer·n of thE! Liberal Par·ty not th€:! fact: L:h,:-1[~ L:hr:!y t.h-Lnk it -i.s d bad dedl. They are afraid of the poltt:icaJ. b r.~ n f'! f i. I: s 1-. o i:. h j s g o u f'! r' n rn e n l ; L h e y are afraid of what is going to h r1 p p t:! n i n c (~ r· t a .i n a r' C-'! a s 1.1.1 h e n \: h r~ y get a11 this paui ng actiuity, ancl all the gener~1 improuements to the transportation system in other pat' t s 0 F HH'! p r· 0 u j_ n c ~~ . r h a 1:. "is what H1ey arE! afraid of. Because by the LifTI(~ t.hE~ Pr·~~rnier· cr.~l.l.s t:he election - this is thE! aduicE:~ of o n c,~ b a c k b (>. n c h E:~ t' h ~=! r· e : H (;! tAri. 11 n o l: call it until he seE!S a lot of Ud:; acl.i.LJ i. i:y gr:d ng on - ·Hld t.1.1hy should he? - so thai:. peop1e can r· (·~ .~-1.1. "i. :1. 1-:! , M r· . ~) p c,~ d k (::! r· , t h et 1·:. ... i. t:_ :i s not what one member saJd it was y:~:; l-.1,-r·d.:-~y, blood rnorwy. T lv1 1:: I~Jas his quotE:~.

Tht s rnornj ng I pr'OIII'i.nHni: fH:~opl.E• ·in and said, 11 Do you yHs l:t:!t'dd.Y dfl:::·r·noon condemned the pauing ·i.n I·:IH~ Coomb' s CouH yesterday afternoon

ca11ed fj ue h·i.s d 'i. sl::r·i.c ·t-.

k n 01.~1 that. your· HH~ tn bE! r·

of your roads r:l r· ('! d ' b ('' c d u s e he stood in

the House and said, 'we do not want blood money'?" He said, 'Mr·. Morgan, he said that?' 1 said, 'Yes, I can gjue you the t r' a n s c r· i. p t s of t h <-?. 1-1 o u s e . '

I called another prominent rnan who is on the Liberal Executiue, or he was, in the hon. gentleman's district -

AN HON. MEMBER: He is still a Liberal .

1\Jo. r;o R3359

MR. MORGAN: 1 S l:. i.l. 1. a L .i. be r i.~ 1 1

, he:~ s i'l y s , s 1·. ·i.J.J. a Libe1nal. 1

-·· and he:~ could not understand why h'Ls mc,~mbt~r spol<1.;! in the:~ House against getting their roads paved. He could not undHrstand it. That occurred yesterday afternoon.

No, l'-1r'. money.

Sp~~al<f~r. i.t Be,~ causE!

d g r· o ~~ 1 n e n t a1JocaUon

IJ.Ji. l::h d

lot.uar·d s

in the House

is nol: blood undE:~tn the

'I> 'I S rn-i l. l. :i o n the labour

p o r· r. i. on of 'i. 1-. , 1·:1-H'! r· H i s no qUE!s ·l::ion ·in my ndnd that L~JhEHl that. $75 1ni.l.l.-L on 'i.s ddcO!qu.:~h~ly

nc-..got:.i ah-..d be tiMe en -l: hE:' unions and L: he p"' r· I: ·i ('! !; con c 1:! r· n u d , fHttpJoy~H·!S ar'C-:! go::ing c'1ci::.~CjUdl:ely look:~r:l

adE~qua1 eJ y cornpensatE~d.

nn q11esi: ·i.on.

I·. he s (~!

t:.o be,! a f i: 1-~ r· ,

There:~ is

Wh d i': i . s UH?. i~ o b'\ 1. rn nob 1:! r· of entpl.oye(:!S? You ar·E:~ talld ng I~Jhd L? - SII.Q E~rnployr-:!E!S I h:d·.<'l1' r"'ly goodrtE:!SS, Ml". Speakc:!r, :if $7S rn.ill.lon cannot look dfl ·. er SIJ.Q employees in this Province, what are we do.ing with the thousands of employees in various fjsh plants IAlith no governrnE!nt dollar·s? What kind of a society are we living in if tMe n~::~ed rnore t.han $'75 mi l.l.ion to accommodate 540 people? Sur·el.y, Mr·. Spr,~akr>.r', that 'i.s not an argument. That cannot be an a r· g u mE~ n t . T h e r· e i. s , T a g r· e e , a n d I have to say jt today, one aspect of Lt, dnd that -Ls Hw arnount. of money going to th(:~ comrnunittes. My fr·i.end hr>.re fr·otn Por·t dl,tX ACISques has SOITIE:~ COI'ICE:H'I'lS at thjs 1-:i.JnE:~, i.n par•l·:-i.CIIl .• :;tr·, ~H~Ci.~usr~ of thE:~ fact -

MR. TLILI<: A n d h ~~ s h o 1 1l. cl h d IJ 1,~ .

r-1R. MORC;(lN: No, not b(:!CC\l.ISE~ of i:h(:~ railway

1.3 3 60 June~ 21., 1988 Vol. XL

agreemelnt, but bt:!cause of the fact l:hc.;! economy of th:i.s town is suffering right now. ThE! fish pl. a n t s iH' E~ i. n q u ~?. s t. i o n o v E! r· t h e r· e , the bankruptcy, and receivership. d n d t h (,:~ p l. r.u1 l~. s n o t o p l'::H' a t :i n g , a n d not.u a sudden loss of morE! jobs. At thi.s Jrruned:i.ate t"irnc->. thr:H'e is reason for the member to be c o n c r-?. r· rll;!C:! a b o u t h i s t o IAJI'l o f P o r· t aux BasqUE!S, and I can understand th<'l ·i~ . But-. 'P rn-i.lli.on I:.OtAJiH' cis Por·l~.

aux Basques, and $7 million +: ot.•Jd r· cl s Fl i. s hop ' s Fa -1 J s tJ.r:i. 11 , indeed, I am convinced - agaoin I 1wi.l.'l 1 . 1~;~~ l:hr-:! LE'!r'fll 'ddc:!quat·:r-:!1y 1

adequat(:'ly F:ind, :if jt. is dN1Jt 1~1 · i . 1'. h i n i'l p r' opE'! r· J~Ji-1 y , d l. hH' n d t ·:i. u f:!

ecot1omj c activity to cr·eat:e rnor1:! l:hdn ·l:ht·) i'lltl'!lbt:!t' of jobs i·:hcitl~. c:'il"f:! thE:H'E:~ I'IOIAl,

So, the:•se two aspects also coVE!I~

l:hr,~ lll.trrtiHl i.~~;p!:~CL Of I~Jhdt :is happening to the empJ oyees in thE! f: own~> i. n v o 1. tJ 1?.d 11Ji. l: h r·a 'i.l.I;.Ja y services jn the Province.

AN HON. MEMBER : (l bunch of p ·i.rat:c->.s.

MR. MORGAN: We are not a bunch of pirates, Mr. S p l-?. a k c-?. r· . The k i n d of 1 a n g u a g e I heard in the House yesterday eVl-?.n:i.ng Fr'o1n t-he Opposition, t.ue are Judas Iscariots, LliE! are a b Ll n c h () f pi r· H )-_ ("! s I lAIC:' c:·l r ~:! u s ·.i. n 9 blood mont'Y. Now, Mr. SpE•aker, if this ter·winol.ogy t.uh.ich IAtas tJSE!d ::Ln this House on this agreernE!nt t.uas s r-~ n t. o u t .:u· o u n d t h E! P r· o v 'i. n c e:~ t. o the genera] electorate - only a fr-~1~1 p1:~ opl e i_n H1e gc'\l.l.ery hE~ar·d

them. The media did not carry i".ht:~tn. T l:lri.nk Lht,~y IAJOit1d bt-'! embarrassed to. Under this d9r't:H'!rtlt:~nl: i~l . l. Ul"i.!; money i.s goi.ng to bE:~ spent in our· Provj nee. By i:h~::~ t~JdY, ·i 1- 'i.•; go ·i.ng 1-.o crr-~at<-?.

over 1000 jobs per year in the c l) n !) I: r· u c t 'i. o n ·i n <.1 u !) t: r· y o v H r t hE:~

next fifteen years - 1000 per

No. 60 R3360

year, Mr. Speaker. They are opposl':~d to jobs, i·:hey i:lrP opposr::~d

to paving, and they a1"e opposed to JIIOnt~y for· our· Pr·o•J.i.ncr~ l:o -i.mpr·ovc-~ o u r ·l r· an s p o I" ti-l Li o n s y s 'tc-i! I'll .

1\J 0 l.: 0 n l. y 1- h d \". I r·il r· . :1 p l':~ d k I'! r· I .. : h t;! y h<'-lVP no hop~~ for· tl'll':! futur·~::~ :in ihdl". ~hH'i:y oHld iHl (;!Xdirlplt,~ of HldL

:is, 'T11 f:ifh,H:!n yeai"S timE'! you l;r·i. l. l. b ~~ b.:~ n k r· up 1": b (~ 1: .:-111 ~; ~) 1: h ,,~ lt-.i.ght.o~Jay m<:t:i.ntc-,!nance cos-t-:s 1Ari11 be s o HlU c h yo 1.1 1~1 i.l 1 no t: be .:-1 b l t'! I· o C CJ ~! f~ 1" :it. . Y 0 U IAJj J.] bE:! b d n k I'' Up t ! 1

Oh 1 l\1r·. Sp(~i:lket' 1 ho1~1 Foi"l.:un;,,h,~ ·i.t .l.s to be-,! on this sidE~ of thE> HousE> lo~J .. i.l:.h ''' p .. ,u-·l~y Lhdl.: look~; For'IAJdi"d t·.o a br·:l.ght futur'E! for· thj s Province and not d d:isnk\1. futt.Jr'<'!, not d doomy-gloomy picture as has been painted by the Liberal Party in the last number of years while constantly attacking.

Only a ft~IJJ days dgo thr::~ Lr~adc-:!r of the Opposition stood and he could not s u p p or· t 1.1.1 h d 1·: t h c,~ P r· t:~ rn i. r:o r· s a i. d about the TE!r·ra Nova t;.JE:~ll. Why? Be c au s c,~ hE~ t~Ji:\ s cl o u b , .. _Full h ~:o lAid s concernE:~d~ dt::'sp:it·E:~ the fact that .it I;JdS SO pos 'i. i:i.Ve. J:t !AidS d Vl,~t''j

positive announcement and because i I: IAkl. s p o s i. 1:. -i. v 1,~ , 1·:1-H:! 0 p p o s t l~ i . on I ecH:Ier says he has concerns, he j s no l: sur'l,~. Thd-1: HloHl, f./lr'. Spr,~dl<l,~t', has nE~vc,~r· stood ::i.n th·.is HouSE:! yel. +:o sdy ;::~nyU·1 i. ng pos "i.l .. _ -i . Vl~ <:\bou 1: IYi. ·; Pn)V:i nCE:!. 1 t.~.ri ll go Fur·thE:'Y': HC'! has n f;! v H t' s ·I: o o d · i. n i.~ c o u r· +: r· o o 1 n I bE:~forE:~ corn:ing to the-:- House, and d o n r~ a n y 1·: l·d n g p o s i. t "i. v tO! F o t' o 1 1 r· P I" o v :i n c E:~ .


MR. MORGAN: Now with that kind of a leader, the LibE:H'al Par·ty m"i.ght as LAJe l.l. r·ecogniZE! one thing: you IJJil] be l OIJJe t' in the-:"! polls ·i. 11 l:.he rlE!Xt. e]c,~ctjon than you t.~.Jere under your previous l.~:oadE~r. You IAJ .i.lJ. havr>.

I 3 361 June 21, 1988 Vol XL.

less seats in the House of Assembly. T. a111 not going to give them advice. MaybE! I should give thern a l.ittl.H bi.t of advice.

Today I for E:~xarnpJ C'!, thE:~ rnE•mi:HH' for ~.J <'I~; k ,,~ 11 p ·i. s 1: o o d · i n L h ·i. s H u us f'! t.'l n d tried to condE:~rnn the pav-.:i.ng of Lhe Tr'iHlS ·C<:Hl<~di:l l·l ·i.glllAid':J. Jnsi:r::'iHI o ·f gE:d·.: ·l :ing up and saying, Oh I J cHn l)t'!t'Y pl.l'!i:lS(:od I•JP i:lt'U f" •i.nd-ll.y gc,!l:.t:ing the rnonE:'Y 1 fou~Jhl: fol" as i:\ lfll·:! nJ l:l ''! t' o IH:O r· 1: h H y f'' ~ r· ~; for· 1: hI'! h:i ghway acr·oss l..abraclo1", hr:! stood tip •'Hld condr~lllnf'!d ·i. t·. I"" he tTansct":ipt of his question 1Ari11 I:H'! ~'':~nl: ou ·l~ to Lhr~ r·'Ld .i.ng mosl:: l·ti<el.y by my good friend r·espons:ib1E:' for Nor·t:I·H~!t'l'l Dc-:ovE~l.opmr:•nt:. l:n othr:or· words, he is opposE!d to gE:'t:U ng money for the Trans - Labrador Highway. I mE:~an, not l<nouring how to pl.dy pol-Hies! My goodness gracious, I knot..u peop]e in high school LAJho can tt:~ach ti'H'!SE! fr~ll.oLIJS lesson in poJitics. And the sarnE:~

LAri.i~h ·HH~ nw1nbr~r· for· Rur·geo .... Bay d 1 Espoir·.

Now I know there is one member n tJ e r· +: h u r· e 1~1 h n i. :; q 1 1 i . L e p l. l:! d s ~:! d I

and he may very well make hJs move b :~ F o t' '"'~ 1-.o o l. on g . f. no 1: -L c e cl h r>. is very much concE:~rned over· somE~ of 1: 11 e L h i. n g ~; Uw I. ·i. b r~ r' •.d. I. H a cl EH' h '" s been saying in the House recently, <:lnd 0111:s "i.du i·hn Hou~;H. Hr:o has madr:o hj~; cotrlrnE•nts :in c.ir·clE'!S clncll in fi:lci· , T Lh ·i.nk hu t~JdS hop·i.ng they IAJould be spread ftu'l:hE·r·. M d y be i: hE:~ r· ,,~ .. i. :; h n p f~ f o r· h ·i.1 n y E:! t .. There :is a good possibility, 1 Ud. n k , H~<:~ 1: hE~ rna y rno v ('! b l~! For· f~ the nl':~xl: r~lecti. on.

MR. BAIRD: To IAJhom cH'E>. you r·eferr-.ing?

AN HON. MEMBER: Who might that be? Name him .

MR. MORGAN: My good friend For Bellevue is

No. 60 ln361

gE!I::t-i.ng l.ot.s of t'Odd to~JOt'k ·1-.hi.s y e a r· , a n d d g h t.J y s o . Jt i s 1 o n g

over·duf~ ""i.n ·t·:hc'! Bel.l.t:!VU!~~ cl:i.str·".i.cl:.

He may have a fr::i end come over·. Maybf:! l.~oJf~ t~ol"i.l1 rnakf~ a S!·~r:ll~ for

hirn. Maybe I can move over so I

can hi:lvc~' a for'ltH~r· l..tber'r:ll. on ~~ach

side of me. Because there are

s o rn c->. g o o d L i. b f~ r a 1. s . The y at' P not.

a11 bad Liberals . There are some

good l...i.beral.s, but. Uwy ar· e vc:!t'Y

fe:~w .

But: I hr:tVE! to <.:.;a y, Mr'. Spc->.ab:!r',

that the Leader of the Liberal

Pat' t y to cl '·~ y 1 s t n d f'! ~'! d o n a v !:'! r· y s l t p p E:! r· y s J o p e o n t h i s i s s u e . I

tJ.Jant 1"-.o cl.osc->., becausf~ l hdVf~ t.o .

SOMF HOI\J. MFMB r: :~ S :

By Je:~ave! Ry leave!

MR. FFFORD: No l.E~<'lve . WE~ have:~ hc->.ard enough

nons c~Hl s r.:~ ~HH' c~~ 1: on t g h l: .

Mf~ . MO:~c;(lN :

Ru·l Jet us J ook at. ·_it aga:i n ::in

fHH' s p (:' c 1". ·i. v l:~ I 11-1 t' . ~) p l-) d k ::• t ' . T I·H:! t"cLillAJi!IY is no longer· bc->.ing usc,~d by i:hc~ peopl.P of Nf~t~Jfounclland and will never again, whether it is

c l.o s ~?.d by gov ~H'I1HHHl t or not. It 1.uill never be used . It has been

used less and less every year. It

was drawing to the point that more

a n d lf1 o r· E! P rn p 1. o y e l:! s tAl c~H' E:~ bEd n g 1. d ·i. d

off, losing their jobs . With no

govern rn f:• n t .i. n v o J. vernE! n t at r'll. l. , they were just being lajd off,

1os ing t.hc~dr jobs. Thc->.y tuc:H'e

losing their jobs year after·

year·. So l::h~~ I~ i . tllf~ tAklS fast

approaching when the railway would

have be~->.n closed dOtJ.Jtl, fr:ldc->.d i.'IIJ.Jay, gone, the same Ll.tay as t .he coastal boat seruice back fifteen ye~rs

ago. T·l would havE~ bee:~n gone:~, Mr·.

S p ~~a k ~H' . R u t-. n OtAJ :i. l: t~ri.ll. b 1,~ go rl!'!

and t..uhat w:i1.1 we havE~ in ii-s

pl.i.·\_c:~? ~"e i'lt't:' go ·i.ng t:o hdtJc) i:\

Tt"iHlS ···Canada H"ighway upgr·adE:1d and .i.mpr·ov~:1d . :~nd rn.:~df:' Si:l.f~~ for' dr· ·i. c; i.ng

L3362 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

f o r· b · i_ g t:r· 1.1 c k s -- l 8 pe-n' c f:O n t tw~i nned. We ar·e going to have an

·i. rnpr·o IJC:' d l··. t' rHl s po r' t:a i : ·i. 0 tl s y s h:!HI t n

many parts of our Province, in r'\t'(~i~S IAJher·f~ -u-. i.s rl(:~f'!df~ d. We iH'e

going to have an adequate

c o rn p e n s a t i o n p t' o g r· a t n f o t' t: h (:1

employees through the $75 rn::i] J.i.on p r· o g r· a 1 n , "' n d tAJ (:1 ,., t' f~ g o 1. n g t. o h a v e

$15 million to go towards the tuJo

fTlr:~jOr' l::ot~JI'lS lllOSt c:~dVl'!Y'SE!l.y

affected.

And down Lhe r·oad, Mr·. SFH'!dker·, in

fiftE!en YE!ars titTlE!, lAJhE!I'l Hibernia ·i.s go-i.ng and IAJhf:!n T~:!l" t'd Nov a i.s

going, tAlE! ar'E! not going to neE!d to

be t.ll!H' t' i. H d d b o u 1·: !". h e l:l'i t. 0 ·F

rna j n ten an c E! cost to keep t. hat.

h i. ghl~kl':J Hldoi.nl:d 'i. t·H:!d. "Thi·lnk yell.! VE:!Iny much .

SOMF HON. MEMRERS: Hc-'rH', hear!

MR. GILRFRT: Mr· . Spei:lbH'.

rJJI~ . ~:)PE111<ER :

The han. the mE~rnber for· BurgC'!O Bdy c:l 1 i~spo ·ir·.

MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker, it is a bit of a

pl. ~~a s u r· (~ to b f~ a b 1 ~~ to s p E! a k h E:! r· e

in this House, because I arn surE!,

tAJhf'!rl Lhis agr·c:!errtE~nl~., t.hts sellout,

we are talking about is talked

<.'lboul: i.n f-Lv(~ ye•u· s her·e, i:hE!r'e

wi 11 be a 1. o t of p E! o p 1 e s a y i n g , 1 I

IALi. s h l·: h a t I h a c:l b l:• ~~ n o v f'! r· h e t' e 1~. o

speak with them . 1

After listenjng i:o the rnernber for·

A o n r:w i . s t d So 1.1 l.: h ( M r· . M o r· g a n ) f o t' a

felAJ minutes, I am r'E•minded of a p h t' ·~ s 1,~ :

1 T h :'! r· c,~ ·i. s non r.:~ s o b l -L n d a s those who lAJilJ not see. 1 So lAJhEHl

T h ~:~ ru· d h i. rn s p o a k , ·i. t r· e rn-i. n d s o f that phrase:~.

MR. r>OYLF:: : T h ::! r· !c' .:l t' f) none s o s l: u rlrl P d d s l:: h o s e

No. 60 R3362

who wlll not read.

MR. GILBERT: That :is good from a minister who tAJould not anstA.IE!r quos l: ions on HH·)

ra:ilt.~.Jr.ly. I am glad the minister· i. n t.hr,, b..-1 c k r·ot~J OlJ c~r· t:he r·f~ not.A.J would s a y he c o u J d not r E! i'l d b t:~ c d u s t'! l: h .:-\ t: ·i. s L h e r· r,~ <'1 s o n .:·1 ll W :i 1'1 t: E~ Y' , \J.J h EHI IAH:~ We r· E' Cl S k j rl g h j ITI CjUl~Sti. Ol'l!) · ·1~) l·. o t~Jhr:11 : PX•'lC:l:l. y t•JdS go'.'i ng on rlS fi'.H' as l hE~ cJ.osing of 1·. h n r· ;·1 i l t•k1 y, t.11h c'! r· e 1·. h c-:! I" c,~ .:'t n 1J n e g o t· :i a ·l :i o n s .... n n n ,_. t h a t h e k JH!IAI oF. Mc~ybc,~ l:h,,1[: ·i.s 'i:hc,~ r'('r'1Sc)tl, 11::! was just 'l.hcd stunnE!d that hE:' chcl noi: knot.~.J. Thdl: cot.Jl.cl hr'1Vr~ br·:!t'!l'l

tiJE~ J"E:!f..ISOJ't. ~.)o I'JOL\1 IAIB can p 0 S S i. b l.lj k 1'1 OIAI t: h d t ·-j_ S i. t .

MR. CALLAN: He said there was no deal. He did not say t:her·e tAl~~ r e no negotiations.

MR. GILBERT: No, he said negotiations .

What. I arn concr-:!t"l'll:~d about r· ... i.ght noLAJ is: What is the long--term affE!Ct: of thi.s acl:.i.on t.~Je S<:1tJ.J Uw Premier perpetrate on the people of NetAJfoundl.and a9d i.n yt?.shH·d.:~y? What reaJ.ly :is UtE:! sit uaU on?

:')olnE•onE:~ !;.:d.cl 1Jt'!S h,~r·ddy t_,,l·tE!I'l I IJ.J;-l.!> talking t-o hint, 11 It seems to rue l.·LkP sowc~cHtr.~ hds h;-1cl Lo St:!l.l. Ute,~ c i:H' i o p cd n t 'l hE:! gar' a g c:~ . 11

T can i"('!ITWntl:lE:!I" Y('!i:'.lrs ago in NE~t~JfoundL~nd ou1:por·l:s, i. f you lived :i.n a NetAlfoundland outport drtd yOIJ Sdi~J SC)Ifle pc~Of')ll:~ I~JhO hr~cJ r~ bi ·t- of Pl"idE-) and thE~ feJ 1 upon a b"Lt of har·d l:i.tnr,~s. t:hr,~y poss .:i.bl.y had to selJ. off a bil of their t~qu.i.-ptnen+. or· sornei:hi.ng hl Lry and keep going, to put up· a good Fr·ont. So thi.s, [think, is IAihat we have seen here, In the Newfoundl.Rnd outports, people wher·e had to sell off some of the

L3 363 June 21, 1.988 Vol XL

goods HH-:!'J neede:~d to tna.kt:! a li.v Lng to try and put the front up that ti'H~ lj IAH~ Y' (~ S t. :i. J. l 1 J V i. n g cl S 0 r• f.: 0 f prosperous live, you could s y 1 n p d t h i z (~ ,,,;_ l: h p r-?. o p l. e h a u J. n g pride.

What. tAlC:' see here is nol someonE! IJ.Jho h.:~s dny pr··i.dc~, but: sorrH'!OI'l(! L11ho

is trying l: o gr·asp and hi:Htg on l:.o pollJC::'t' ~~ l: <:11'l'J c:n~; ;-_. Tl·. r'c '!d l.l y dcH:•s not matter· 'l o h:lrn what l::hC'! co~;t l:o l.hl-:~ pc'!Op-IC:! or 1\I::!I.<JFOijrt{Fii'li 'lcl I;Ji11

bE:', t.uha'l.. thl'?. J.ong --'L t:!I"J'JJ r·arrl'i.F ·i C:d l: ·j Oil!; or l::lt ·i ~; •.'tt;3r':'!f'>rrten l::' this sellout we are her(-:! cld1ating l~ odc1y, ·i.•; qo ·i. ng l:o b1~,

~~ h .:1 I: '"'' C'! h i'l v '~ b i:1 ~; t·:! d o u r· a r· q u1 n e n 'l: on, of course, is Hw fact that, nurnber· on:~, l::I·H?. cons t . .i t.u1:.-Lona1 guarantee we had at the time of Confe:~der'c:tt.Lon, T~~r'fll 31, IAJas that the Government of Canada wer'E! go lng t:o opc;!r'a l:.e and 1na .. i.nh::1in a transportatjon system, majnly the railtJ.JdY. The r·ai.l.IAJay tAJas l::he on1y thing they had to taJk about in l 9 4-9 d s a 1-.: r·"' n s p o t' l: at :i. o n s y s 1:. <'! 1 n , As the Leader of the Opposition s a 'i d y ~'! s ·1-: f~ r· d '" IJ , 'i. f t~J E:! tAJ (! r· r,, entering Canada today, we would not-. b:?. h'1l.ki.ng dbOI.JI-. d t•;_·lil.t~l"ly, IAIB wouJ.d be talking about a Tr'dl'lS ·Ci:Hii.H:Ir:·\ H i.ghtJ.IdY,

T just had the privilege to attend ,') pr·:~!;!; COI'IF'Ut'PI'IC:c~ l1.1i.i :h 1-. IAJO nf i.:he l.iber·al rnembN'S of the f'edE:!I"a1 c;dtiC:t.J!;, Hr· ·i.an Tc)b i.n dnd B i.1.1 RompkE!Y, IJ.Jho al"(:' her·E:~ LodrlY l:o r·,,dnfor·cf) <:1 s'l:<:lh~nwnl". i:I·F~l-. John Tur·ner· made t.uhen he was her·e on M;,., 1J 1. ~ . l he:~ s ·1:"' 1·. emEHtl·. 'i s h c·'! IAIO ul. d ensure Newfoundland 1 s rights undc:'r thr-'! Consl:'i.l·:ui~·i.on t~HH'C;! pr·ot:f'!Ct.~:!d i.n any agreement enterE!d into betwee:'n t h i. s P r o u "i. n c (~ cHId t h (~ c u r-r E! n t government in Ottawa. So after the next election Lhere will be no problem with getting this . With rn .i rT o r· 1 e:~ g .i s l a Li. o n i. n tr· o d u c e d :i n this House and the fE!deral House,

No. 60 R3363

....

IJJE.~ 1~1:U. J then g~~t back the Hd ng I~Jhi. ch COI'lCC:~t'n~; IJS rriOSI: Or d.ll. r·:ight no1JJ, thE:! fact that there :i~;

nol: <'I llkli.nhHli'H1CC:~ "19t'l~t-:~ltl<·:!l'll:

Jncludad in this present

d9t'C:~<,~lllfHlL. rh.:d: i .s (·:he,~ l·:h"i.ng I~JH

feel :is going to be the tragic Fl. ,ji,~J oF 1:: hi. s d g r· fH:~ lllE! n ·1· ..

We hctve ~ second concern, the

phasing out of the railway

JunnE!ciJab~ly. Th(:' r~~comHiendr:d:ions

of t.hE! SuJ.]tvan Comnltssion and

other people who have looked at

this some dE!gr'eE! of knowledge ancl

IArithout i'lriiJ politic1:1l

ramifications have said, :in the

interim, From the close of the raJJway to the build-up of the

h t g hiAlcliJ , t 1·1 <"! t' f~ h ''' d t: o lH"! a j:H:! t' ·i o d of time. I think the Sullivan

Comrni.ss·ion t'l;!r;OrnHIHnded a. fivr:! lj(:!iH'

per·iod.

Just i.ruag:i.ne IAJhat- :is happening

no1~1. The agr·t~Pinnnl·. 1~1<'1'> si.gnr~d

lj(~steJ"di'!IJ. We hav(~ thE:~ gover·nm(:~nt

do ·i. n g l: h t! -i_ r· p o 1 ·i. L i. r: , .. , 1 a g P. n d.~ . 1,-J :~

lli:1 v (-~ hE:! iH' d tl·1 (~ i'.l n no u n c E! rn (-! n t s t: hell.

t: hey .~ r· 1:~ s 1: r.1 r 1: i . n g 1: o p i:l v H r· o ad !; I

cHid IAJ(:! IIE!ar·d the mernbel" fol"

Bonav·i.sl-:,'1 !'7)oul:h (Mt'. M<H'9•'11'1) po "i. nt:

out that dE!f:ini tely it IAJas a

p o l i. t i. c '" l a t' t' a n g <o~ 1 n f~ n 1: a n d i:. h o

announcernen ts IAJE:~re pure] y

pol ·i t i . c.:~ 1 . I ass uuH:~ I e v ~'! n l: hough

he is a backbencher·, he must have some knowledge of the agenrla of

the government. I know that he

tJJould not hav~~ any conc(:!t'n about

common deCE!ncy, about the needs of the,~ people of Uw Pr·ov i.nc(:~ or· Lhe

priorities of where this paving

ha.d to go.

T have hear·d sE.~vet'cll comments

about the BurgE!O Road si nee th:i s thing cau1e in as i.F th ·i.s Wi:ls a bad th:ing that. thE:~re 1/Jas $12 mJllton

go n P. i. n r~ o H1 <,' 111 ~ r g H o f-? o '" d . T do

no ·t· t.h:·ir1k it. !Alas, but IJJhi'.lt I arn concr:'t'tl:~cl o'li:H)I~I·: is UJdl: Ul'i. ~; $1?.

rrr:i J J :i o n s h o u 1 d h a v e go n ~~ i n to t l·t (:~

1.13 ()/~ JurH:~ 21 1 1.91313 Uol. XI .

Rurgeo Road i.n 1985 because this I~Ji~~; flt'OHl:i. S:~d 1 rJJr. !)p<-?.<'lf<f:!t' 1 On

Mrl r c h 2 9 I 1 9 8 5, L~Jh en thE! fir· s t ERDA ~greernenL was signed.

MR. TOBIN : (InaudtbJ.e) r· r:~ p r· l:' s :-~ n 1'. i. n g be allowed in

MR. GILBERT : Mr·. Speakc~r.

MR. SPEAKER:

He i .s not you. He the House .

Or·der, pJ.E:~aSE!!

worthy should

of not:

The hon. the member for BurgE•o fl d y d 1 r:: s p o ·i. r· .

Mi-?. GTLBERT : As I Sell), Mr . SpeakE!I"', this

''lgr·c,~r,~lnr:!nl·: sho11ld havP bel'!l'l s··i,gn~~d

in 1985, and the RurgE!O Road

shol!ld lv'lv<,~ bH<Hl :incl. udf~d in 1-:i'H-?.

a g r· e erne n t s i g n e d i n 1 9 8 c:; , IAJ h E! n i t l~li'lS pt'Oini.!;:~d dl.lr'-i.ng ·!l·w l.i!tst

(,1] ection.

S:ince 1985 the people of

l\J<:~I.LirOI.IncJl.;uJd IJi.·\IH'! br·'!f'!il illddC! i:ll..llf.'ll"l~

of thE! fact thE:' Bur·geo l~oi'.lcl is a v r:H' y s e t' i o 11 s p t' o b l. (~ 111 i . n t hat

area. It happens to be thE! longE:~s 1: I coni:·i.nuous grd~JE~1 t'Ocld i.n the Province. There are 6,000

p ~! o p l. f~ IAJ h o l. i. 11 c,~ ·i. n l: h (~ B u t' g e o 1

Rarnea, Gre•y RiVE!r, Francois, area

IAJho ck~pr:!nd upon HlH Rur'<.:J('!O Road.

I IIIUSt. h~l.l. you T IAJas sor·t of

pleased yesterday when the Pl~erniE!r

stood oi.n t.h i. s i·lousE! and gaVE! rne

the credit for the getting t:he

pav Lng For th<::~ Bur·gl'>.O Road included j n this agreement. That i. s o n t h e r' t~ c o r· cl • d n d T t h a n k h ·i rn

for recognizing thE! fact I did do

IJJhd t: T. IJ.Jcl s <:~ 1 e c i~ ed r~o do I l:o po J nt out to th:is government the need o:UI d UH~ s 1,1 f f I:H' ·i. n 9 1-: hat l..lli·\ !) b f~ i. n g

~~ndtH'ed by th(~ peopJ e of BUI"9N).

A 1'1 d b (:~ c ·-~ 1.1 !) ~~ 0 r 1·. h d l. I rJJ r· . s p 0 a k (~! t' I

therE:~ j s a small amount of rnoney

i\JI). 60 R33611-

alJ.ocatc->.d out of this agreement to go to the Burgee Road, $12

of which, I guess, $8 nriJJion, rn·i.l.l-Lon is fc->.dc~~r·al and $4- m-Lil.-i.on js provincial.

Bul: l ::ht~ i.n1-.E>.r·est. -i.ng th-i.ng, as th~~ Pt"emj er wPnt on. thanking rnE! and s d y-i. n g L h d l-_ '( lAid s l h r,~ r· <:~as on 1-·_ h f~ r11on€-~Y was ther·e because->. of the fi:lci.: [ lllc1dt'! hi.TII dl~li:H'<~ of l··.hl-:' ptnoblE·!I'II, J t.-~las Cl J :ittle COIIcer·npcl, in lJic:>~.•l of 1-.hn f•·1t : i: , 1.1n L'i l J I)H'!I'l1: t h E'!Y ' E:! , :i. 1'1 'l. hE' S :j X y H a r• ~; j:H' f) V ·.) 0 U S ,

l : ht·~Y h<·1cl lJr:!,:!l'l r·r~pi"HSr:HII r~d by .~ ntC:~rllbE~t" C1n that s::ich~ of lhP HoUSE·'. T IAIOitld h ;:,_ve ·1--.houghl-. 1-w ~~IOIIl. d hdlH' p o ~; ~; :i b 1 y p o :i. n t: E:~ d o u 'L i hE:! h a r· d s h j p s d n d s u f f ,,, r· i n g o f 1·: h E! p r~ o p 1 t'! o f fl u I" g E:! o , b u t o b v :i o u s J y h E:' cl:i d n o 1: .

So no1~1 I havE:~ ::i.t on r·c~!CCH'cl ·I hat. L he P r EHWi. c:! r· d i d s a y T. l;li.'l. s l h r->. o n ~~ who was pr i marily responsible. But I tell. him no i.t t;ldS nol me->., a] 1 I 11.1as doing was the job I !Alas elected for, representi.ng the people of Burgee and doing what they wanted rne to do.

The interesting thing that h a p p <->. I'll-?. d i:. h c~H' t~ 1.1.1 h e n 1:: h e P t' ~-~ tn i tH' conti.nued on, he talked about funding in other prov-Lncial districts. He took the district of RonatJ·i. sta So1rl·:h ;,1nd hf~ l:.hr:! r·eason thc-.lt pav-.i.ng u.JE!nl: j n thE!rr:~ fr" orn fltHI·~wish~ l:o Cl.;u•r:!nu i .l.ln becausP. thE-!r'e IAJas d Jot of 1:-raff:ic rHid h:~ l:ht'f~l~l i .n l:ht~ fi·1C I: l:h<:1l: I: hi-) f :i s h p J ant- j n C a t. a J :i n a IAH:t s l: he l:hi.ng Uli:l.t-. rn.:-1dr,~ i.t t~ he lJ'i ··1bl.1:! p;_.n·l. of put ·l :i ng money into the 11onr'11J is La h:i.t.:JhL1h1Y.

I IJ.IOUlcl "1. i.!<,,~ l·:o poi.n-1·. 0111~ l:o l:h:>. Pl"E~ndc->.r·, iHrd hE>. d:id not rnent:ion 1:: h -i. s y f~ s l-: r,~ r· cl d y • b u I: -i. n 1·: h ,,~ 11 u r· g c->. o area there happens to be a fish plant i!lnd t:hc:H'<>. happr.>.ns l·.o be i:1 f:ish plant in RarnE!i:l, and :in those ltJJo COlllllluni.ti.c-:~s, Mr·. Spe<~kc:!r', T wouJd point out to the Premier,

L3 365 June 21.. 19B8 Vo 1. X I.

there are more people ernployE!d in +:he t1.~.1o ftsh pJ.ant.s in Bur·geo and Ramea, and thE! det~p sea trawl E!rs than IAior·k i.n the papE!r rni.ll tn Corner Brook.

So, l:he jusl··. iFi.ci:\l·: i.on and the:! point I haVE! bE!E!n trying t:o rnake d b () u ;-: 1': h (~ B u t' 9 ic' 0 t ' 0 r'1 d F 0 t' 1·. h 1-?. 1. a <; t three years is the fact that i t ::is ur'!I''IJ v· i. l·Ally ·i.111porl.rHll: l.:o l::he ~::~conorny of NetJ.rFound]and bl'!Ci'lUSE:! l:hn doll.:tt·~; llk·tdtc' ·i. n rlill''<F ' O ,'Hid Ranwa by t:he fishing :i ndu :. l ry iH'E' n :~IJ.I do l.l. d r· ~; 1·. o 1\J :'!IJ.JI7 o u n d ·1 .~ 11 cl ,-:~ n d this ha s t:o be transportE-d over I: lJ f! 8 II t ' g H 0 t' I).~~ d .

ifJ,:• hi-'tV<:' SHI:!n, agi-'l·i.n, ·i.n 1-.:hi.s agreement, tokenism, $12 million l:o go ·inl:o p.:·lVt:' d 90 kiJ.OTII<'• i.: (:' r 1noad, which wi.J.l do rnaybE! 20 k·i. lom~~hn·s. This r·oad has bE:!en there now for the last eighteen y H i:l r· s , i. n d r· i . b s .;1 n d d r· a b s , a n d has not been fit to drive over. I h~::! at' rnc~~rnbE~ r· s over· t h <-'> r· <-'> b c,;, :L ng proud lAihen thE!Y stand up and rrH:!ni: i.on thf'! Bur·gl'!O r·uad 1-:o Tnf~.

I say, yes, the people of BurgE!O are happy a little bil of the suffering has been reJieved but HH:~ M:i. rd s h>.r' of Tt'C:HI s po r· I:: a ·t-i. on knows, he had a meeting with thern, .:~ n cl h ~-~ 1-- o J. d 1·.: h ~ :nn HH'! B u I" g e o r· o ad IJJa s go i..n g to bE! a p r i ()In :.i t y on any 1. i. s 1-. ll r;; a l s o k n n tAl s t: h a 1: u n ·L:-i l Febr·uary of th:is year, i. r1 this ;-1gt'lc'l:'lll<-~ni: l:hP nri. n ·i . sl--. (~t· den-i.us he knelAI anyti·J:ing about 1.-~1hjJc.:> thE! d ·i·;CIJ~;~;ion!; l~ler·,~ goi.ng un, r-1nd hr->. can v er:i fy Ul'i s :if hE:' wants ·to, hE· l<no1.-~1s 11n1. ·i. l. Fl·~bt'IJ.:-lt'Y 1Jt' M;:n·ch of this year that the Rurgeo road was n o 1·. i. n c l1 1 d 1>. d f o r· d n y f u n cl :i. n g , P. ~~ E! n though the previous MJnister of Tr·,:~nspor·l : dl:·i.on ~lo:·lcl sl--.oocl up i.n this House and said hotJJ the 11 u r· g e o r· o f,l d IAii:l s i.·l p r· i . o r· i. I: y . I h a d the Pr·ernier stand up and sr-.ly hot.-~1 lhe Burgeo road was a prioril::y. That minister stood up and said it

No. 60 R3365

IJJa.s a pr·:ic>r·j t.y but, unt.-iJ l'-1arch of

1-.h -.i. s yc,'i:lt', ·i. l: 1~1a s not c~tJ~:ln going

to b8 considsred in 1 hi s agreement.

l·.o sel.-1 0111". 1-.1-w ra · i_ l.l~l·~Y.

T.l: :i. s on ly boc:a • Js c~ of l: hc~ pr·c~ SSIH'I-'

p ut on tl1e gov e r·nrne l'l't , tAJ j t h t he

p 1:'! t: j , l: i o n :; f t ' ow Un,1 p c~ o p l. ~~ o f'

Bu r g eo , a nd my self ma k i ng

r e pr t-~ l>CHJI: a l : i . o n o n thc~ i. r· be l'l•:\l. f i.n

thi s Ho u ~e, that t h e Bur geo r·oad

IAJd s 'i. n c l.ud ~H:l.

So, noiAJ UH,) onl.y Udng T s ;.~y to

the minJ s hH' is I hope the other

$20 million required to do t h l s r·oad IAJi 11 be included in the

subs ·i.d iar·y agr·eernE:'I'l t . The o l: hc->.r

par·t of this mythical agreemE!nt. lAJe

are tal.k1ng about, the $235

mjJlion which is going to bE!

announc e d so111e t i111C'! ·i.n l.:hr->. futur·r,),

is a poJ j U cal agenda r·ather than

a pr·aci~. -Lcal or· a pr·i.or·i.l.y agf~ ndd..

Wha i-. J a111 s d y -i. ng i . s HH:' 811 t'9 c?. o

road, I hopE:! IAJE~ F'ut. j t 'l"o bed as

f ;:n· as rn~:) Jnl:)c'!t ' ! ; oppos i.l:c:) <H':~

concel"nPd. TI1E-1 pE:!Op1 E:1 ar•c,1 nol:

t'l-:) i-l l. ly h.:-1ppy ~Jri. I : IT i: IH:' ~d t:rl<:ll:i.on

bu-t. t hey J"Pi~J.iL:E:), w:·i t h th E:! pr·esent

g o v E! r· n m r-~ n t: , 1". h c,1 p t' c'! ~; ~; 1.1 r· 1:' ~~~ H p ' 1 t: o n

thE:1TTI, and thE-! Premier· admitted

!·:hat T had done,~ a good .j o b, s o hJI-.)

havE.~ som~:!thlng star·'L t::'d. Once IJJe

go fr'oJn Lhc,n·r~, J~J(~ 1~J'i.l.l. ~;c-~f:' hJhr.H·. i.s

going to happen.

As I p oi.n l: ecl out. , t he l. t be r· al.

Pa r t y of Canad a h a s reinf o r ce d the

a r gu me n ts tJJ e have bet~ n ma k·i.ng

t oday by hav i ng a press c o nfer e nc e

he r e i n S t . J ohn 's t o da y o u tl i. n ·i.ng

some points . The fact thE!re was

no ma .intenance agreement i.n this

railway agreement made it a very

flawed dociHnent. and rnaJf~ · i 1-. orH~

that, lAJithout it, could, in a

p e t' i. 0 d () f I~ f~ n y l"1 rH' s I b a n k r u p t

Newfoundland . So they have

d9Y' P l"1d, dS I s r:·dd, to l ook ,·d : 1-.hi:d·.

again.

I 3366 June ?.1, 198B Vol XI.

They a] so agreed and rec-)] ize this

f 11 r1 cl'i. i'l '.!J I~H:~ l: . :~ l. k a b ()I I l~ , 1: h C:' $ 1. 00

rniJJion now and the $4·0"> rn:illion

I~Jh"i.c:h ·i~; go ·i.ng l:o be p11l : "i.nl'.: o thf:1

main highway, i s woefully

'i. l'l .:~ c:l f:' q I I i-1 h~ d rJ d IWi. l. l bE! t ' f:! 0 fH~ n E! d .

T hH l.:lri. ng J f"i.nd ,nos l: i. ni".I:H' E!S 'i:: inq

when I S E:~ e this agrE•E!rnent, and the

UJ'i.ng l:l'l d l: f r·:i. gh h~ n s 1n e c1 bout: l:. h ..i.s

agr'E! E:' rn e nt., Mr . Sp e ak E!Y' , i s the

facl". l·: hat-. .. i. n '1.9'/9 l:h i. s g o v ~:! r' l'llnc;!nt.

s :i.gned an a grE! E!ITIE!nt to t:ak E! OV E!r

1: h ~>. ·i. n t c;! r· p t ' o v i n c "' l F C:! r· r· y s y s I ~ t::~ rn .i n

thi s Provjnc E!. Th e ag ree men t IAJ c!S

s ·ignt'!d o n F l:1br· u d t'Y 7, 1979 f o r·

$1,292,000. This agr e ement was

su pp o,;l;!d t~ o I:H'! t.ennin a i:.C'! d o n fJi arc h

31 , 1984- .

The great spirit of co - opera t ion

b ~~ I~ I;Jf:' 1,~ n the l: l.o~Jo 13 t' ·i. FU'l s IAJ d s i. n

effect then, and bE!Cause of t·.hi s ,

1 ... h c,1 a. 9 t' E~ :::1 Til c;! n t·. I~Ja s f~ x 1·: ~~ n cl (;! d for one

year and then another year·. WhE•n

·i. l: Fi.nr:dly r,1xp"i.r·::!cl i.n '1.9136, l:l·wr·e

was $2,4-00,000 paid into the

o p :~ r· '-" 1: "i o i 1 o F t ... h H c o d s 1-. .:-1 ·1. f f'! r r· y

sys t em in NelAJfoundJ cHJd .

No w , j f an y o n e wouJ d c ar e t- o lo() k r.1 t . ~: h r~ b 11 cl g c:') 1: F i. g u n 3 :; f o r· l: 11 ;_ s

y e ar, t he o pera tio n of t he f e rT y

SY!> l: lWI i.n ~Jc.~ t~Jfoun dl. r.1 nd l: od •:l y i s

costi ng t he ta xpaye r s of

N e ~JJfo u nd l . . :'trl d solfleLh i n~J 1 i. ke

$10,000,100.

r"l t ' . S p l?. ;,, k H t' , I~J h f;! n y 0 U 1 ... d k E:~ ·i 1'1 i'. 0

consideration that in 1979 this

lAJdS a f,.~dt!t'al. r·c"1spons i. bi l il:. y and,

for some reason or other, the

Fr~dc;! t'al govc:?.r'nHH~nt -· I do not knotJJ

what the justification was at that

t. i.rn(~ pE:H'SLtad~~d UH,1 Nc·~IAJFoundland

Government to accept the

responsib·ility for the ferry

system on a five-year agreement,

extended to a seven year

agr e ement., and now lAJe have a $10

111-i.ll. ·i.on b'i.ll. l". hf~ l:dx pay t:!t'S oF

Newfoundland have t.o assumE! to

opc-H' di::~ Ullt' Fr,~J·Ty sy s ·h~1 n, T dTll

No. 60 R3366

afr·aid of tAJhat is go·ing to happr::Hl when the chickens come home to roos 1: on our r·a i l.tJJay df~al., I~J~HHl tAlC:~ have to assume the maintenanCE! of the Trans - Canada Highway.

Just as an aside to that ferry agreement, the same time the Province was signing one in NewfoundJand, they signed one in B.C. c:~nd thr;!r'<::~ t~JdS no f ·-i.ur-~ ·· ··yer.u· agr•eemen t. It was in per·petui t.y dnd i. l·. IAJdS si.gl'l(!d for· 1;B rni.ll, ·ion :in 1977. It is I'IC.llAJ $16 rn:illion in 1988.

~)o, r-1t'. Spt~'''!u)t', T dill lJC!I'' Y SU!;p:ic:-iOlJS IAihE:HI J hear• of i·!tf:' P r' ~'! rn ·i. r:! r· s ·i. g n i. n q ,·_., n y r:l r:' d l. !; d i 1 r:l conri119 back Hnd 'l.f:!1ling me:~ it- :is good for· Net;Jfoundl.,nd, b:~r:dt.l!>l:~ l"f~lltE:~mbeJ~, hE-~ j s '!:hE:! sarnf~ Premie1~ tuho s.··d.d, up unl-.'i.l. yr:~si·. ,~rddy, ht~ b E'! 1. i E~ u e d N e wf o u n d 1 a n d h ad a consl~i.I". Ul:Londl. r·i. ghl·~ l~o h.:<~ve .:t r·t:ciJway guar·anteed. NOIAI he tel] s us no, h~~ r'edl.l.y did nol~ liH~cHl i. l~. He tAJas just saying that . HE! was post.ur· .. Lng. So I IAJOI'ldf:!t' tAJhdt hl'! i . s go:i ng to say when th:i s deal blows up .

But Fortunately, we u.J.il.l be ther·e to form the government IAJB h c1U E! a 1'1 a 9 t' (:~ C:HflE! 1'1 t. nOW lJ.Ji. 1:~ h ttext federal government, I_ i be t'i::ll. go v C;! t' nmr.~ n 1·. i. n 0 U-. dl~ld , bc.dl us out of th::i.s decll hE! got. h-'! n u s i. n 1-. o .

SOME HON . MEMRERS : Hear, her-.tr!

MR . SPEAK ER (Ct'Heni.nq):

ov.;>r and the the

t-.o has

AE~for·e r·ecogn:i zing t.he hon. rnembE:~r F () t' I',;, p () ·i. l_ !:~ ' l I~) I) Ill d l. ·i. k (! 1:0 welcon1E.~ to Hl'is hem. House, M.P . Rr·"i.i::tn Tob'i.n.

SOME liON. MF.:MBERS: HecAr, hf:!al~!

MR. MITCHF.LI..:

L3367 JUrH.'l 21, 1.988 Vol. XL

Mr· . Spc~aker·.

MR . SPEAKER: The hon . the member for LaPoiJe .


MR. MITCHELL : Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

I IAJeJ come the opportunity today t.o (:~ni ·_ ,,!t' Lhis clc'!bal·.c:! <'I!'; -i.l·. l"f~l. ai-E!~; t~o l:hE! rai] way.

As IAJE~ Jook back at thE! h:ist.or·:j c di.si:r- ·ic'l: oi I•:·,Po · ilr.~. Ult:! 1·_cli~Hl of· Por·t aux RasqUE!S and ·Uw people '·'' h o l. i lJI'! Uw r· ''! , ·i 1: •••··'I s cpri -1". u d s h o c k y e s h::' r cl a y uli'H'! n t h ~::~ y s r-.:u.u t h Cc' d H rn i •; f:~ n F 1. h r:~ t' ,., 'i. l.t~kt y . t: I:H:! l . i. r:! ~J r->.

everybody who grew up :in a ra:iJway 1-.0I~Jrl, l~lhO has ber:~tl dSSOC i.a h:~ d ld i t.h the raillAJay a)l thejr J:iVE:1s, held l:o feHl. a I~YPf'! of nos l::dl.gl.a yesterday. The heart strings were bt:!'ing pulled as 1-~hf'! r·ai.l. t~o.Jay IAJas being signed at.uay foreVE!r in thE! Pr·ov-l.ncc:1.

R u t. , M r· . S p e a k e r· , a s IAI e 1. o o k b d c k we can say, it is not thE! gOV\~t·nment at Ol:l~HIAJa CH' l:~he Government of Newfoundland who gdVf~ r'\I;Jdy l:~hC;! r·ai.J.IJ.Jdy i.n t:h::i.s Provjnce . Both governments have foughl-. vur·y hdt'ci For· l··_h\:' sur·vlval of thE! railiAJay. In the 1ast tC::!n y::!r.H'$ l:hc:!t'r:~ has l:)tH>.n rni.-1.1. inn s and mj)Jions of dollars pumped into i·.I'H:~ r·d ·i. l.tAJdY l·.o nldkf'! ·i,1-. l;lOr'' k in this Pr·ovince.

rv'Jr' . !~ p (~ ·~ l< ::! t' ' l pc~op] E:~ of this 1-.1-w t'i·d-lt~JdY t;Jho because lhey did

9 I I H s s i. I·~ l~)t) !) 1:. h ('! Pr·ovincE.~ IAJho USE!d CdUSt·~rl i. l-.s dcwl'i.se not use it.

M r· . S pea kE:H' • I wo u J d b ct s i c i'l J J y l.·i.!<'~ l:o open my r·,~rnrH'ks l·.hi.s after·noon :in this HousE~ by saying U11~ s-i.grl'i.ng oF t.hE! r'dl.lway agreement yesterday was a great

No. 60 R3367

deaJ. for NE:'I.Ufoundland, but a very sad day for· P1H'l: di.IX [3.::~sqiH:~~;.

Mr· . SpE-~akE~r · , as i he r11ernber· r•ept'r'!SI·Hll:!; 1:1-Jic' dl_!;i:t· ·i.cl: 1 [

lliHJP SOrrl(-! glni'~VE' COriCt::H'I'lS a~;

t'f:' l.d 1-.es l:o l:h:) cl os LWc-:! oF NE-!I~Jfoundland l~a·.i J way. We got n g 1: o h ·~ v 1:' i.~ l. o L diuPrsificaiion io do.

tAJho Lon it

Uw ar·e of

hlh !:'rl IM~~ look i:)at:k dl l:h:~ dgr·e,~llll'!nL

~;j gnecl YE·!Sl.E:H'day and one st.c.H·ts to d P l lJ P i n +:. o ·i. L I IJJ e c d n s f;? H t h 10?

demise of what once was a thriving 1~. OIJMl . C 1-. rna y n 01.1.1 no l. on g l·H' b o c.,, s we see the erosion of the presence of CN in Port aux Basques. As the tnt.er·modal t.:ransportatj on netlAJork t i::l k e s o v c->. r· in L he Pro v t n c e , we are going to see freight going into other centres of this Province.

That, yester·day, 1Aic1S qLri. h~ ev i.df~nt to the town fathers of Port aux 8 d s q u (:~ s •it s t h :~ y s a 1-: Hw r f~ d 1.1 r i. n g

the s j g n in g of Hd s hi s t. or i c d~~d1. Mr·. Spedkl:~r·, 1-:hi. s IJir'IS l :h(:?

major· concer·n t:hE~Y had.

MR. SU.'IMOW) : Why t.Uf..l s j ·1 not l.oo k E~d b e F o t' o h i'l n d ? I) i d Uno~ HI H HI b ''! r· 1 e:d· that t h'.ing go i hrough?

MR . MJTCHF: I I. :

aftc-1r· r· 1:~ ;-1l. l . y

Ml". ~)pE~akr:H', t.l1e hon . rnc'!rnbc->.r sits Uw r· ~'? .:-1 n d h r;? l: .:·\ ·1 k ~; al:> !) 11 1: I·Jl'i. s

r11ember· on this sjdf:! CJf thf:' House letting it go through .

Mr· . Spf~ a k e r· I Ud. s rnEHnb EH' -

MR. SIMMONS: Did you? Did you?

MR. MITCHELL: This member on this side of the House -

MR. TOBIN : You scuttled (inaudib1e.)

U368 J U I'H~ /. 1. , l 9 8 8 Vol XI .

SOMF HON. MEMRFRS: Obi nh!

MR. SPFAKFR : Or·dt-:?t', p-1 1·~;,,~;(:?! Or·dor· I pl.E~ii\S(:~!

r-1R. r-1TTCHEI . I_: This rrH:!rnber· on thj s sidE:! of H I) 1.1 s lc~ r' H p t' 1:'! ~; 1-) 1'1 L (! d L h lc' p f;!!) p l lc~

LaPo ·j}e, rcc!presentecl therll IAIE!]] t)ri l. J con l ·. ·i. n 11 :~ '1". o n:q:>r· E'? ~; ~'! n 1·:

IJIE! ll. .


MR. SPEAKER: 0 r· cl e r· , p l. c,~ d s e !

MR. SPEAKER:

thE:! of

and l·:hHifl

I ask the hon . mE!mber on t:h:Ls sidE~

oF the House iF he woul.cl please be quiet whi1e the hon. the member f o r• L a P o i . l. r,~ i . s s FH~ <:1 k i. n g . I f cHl y member wants to stand on a point of or· d H r· , by "'l.l. mE:? i.·ll'l s I but. :i. f not, please be quiet while the hon . lllf~llll:)!,'t' :i. s ~; pe.:-1 lei n~ .

MR. SIMMONS: ~1r· . S p 1:~ ;., k r·H' ,

ScHlie thing ~; p ~~ ;~ k · i. n 9 .

JI.1R. SPFAKFR:

·iF for·

l'.ilr:'Y i)Joul cJ US IAJhjlE~

do IAIE!

I:: hE•

a r·c'·

T. l)ri s h l: o iHI V ·i. ~; 1,~ l h H h on . 1:: hE! member for Fortune - Hermitage ( Mr· . ~'> i JIIJIIO n ~;) 1·: h.:·\ 1: T cl 'icl l ... h r;? s i:'t JfiE!

for· tl·ds sjde of the HouSE!, and I dJfl acl:u•~l. ly t':.:?Fer·r··i.ng l.: o L:hc,~ hun. the member for Fortune - Hermitage.

The hon. the member for LaPoile .

MR. MITCHELL: Thank you, Mr . Sp(->.ake::~r .

The hon. the member for Fortune - · HEH'Jn 'il-.ag£:~ (Mt· . S-i.1nrnons) 1.-.ikE!S to stress the pojnt of how he r·E:~pr·c:~s~~n t.l;!d t.he pl->.opl.E'? of Por·t: dljX

Basques in a federal riding .

No. 60 IB368

WeJ 1, Mr·. Speaker·, let rne say r i. g h l: f r· o 1 n I~ h e o 1 1 t s e t i . n H1 y s p I He~ c h here today, :if that hon. member did such a tdondc-:!r·fu1 job as l·:he r11ernber· r·e:~present"ing those people, h~>. would no!: ~H-:! si.t.t.i.ng I~Jh(~rt:! hE~ i s t. o day . T hal-. "i. ~; a r· g u lrllc~ n 1-. enough, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MFMBERS: H e a r· , h C:' d r !

MR . MITCHF:LI. : Ask the peopJe of Port aux Basques abo u t 1·: h r~ -i_ r· ~~.k1 1. rc~ r· , M r· . S p e '" k P r· , and ·t-hE:!Y v.d.lJ. tel1 you about thE:' hon. mewb:;,r··.

MR. J. C()RTFr~ :

I;J:;, knot~J .:-1ll .:~boui.: h·i1n .

Ml~ . MITCHFI.I_: Mr· . S~'H:1ai<EH', back "in t:hcc~ 1960s J had l.:h:;, unfor·l:IHh'\l:e si.L1Jal:ion of being t·oJd my rno'l..her· had cancer, ·i. 1: ~~Jds t·.~:~r·rni. ndl., .. ~nd shl'! ~~~·'~~' goi.ng i.. o d :i (->. • WE>. lAIC->. r· e on 1 y got n g to h d v E! he t' rc 0 r· .:') c I'! r· L"' i. n l. e n g I. h () F tirne. It carne as a lrernendous shock.

All. rnc-:!lnbt;!rs of l:h~>. fam i. ly had to prepare for the day when there would no longer· bE:~ a prese:~nce of the mother in the farrd J.y. We had to accept that fact.

Mr·. SfHH~kc;!r, For· this P1novtnce v.Je of lhe fdct tl':!rmjnaJ :illne:~ss i. n t: h l s P r·o v i. n c ~;:~ .

SOME HON. MEMflFR~1 :

Hear·, hear!

~1R. MJ TCHFU :

a long 1-.-i . lfH~ in havE~ beE:~ n at.uarE!

l.:hd i~ ur.i t h

1:: h E• r· r~ l~kl s the raJ Jway

F: v r'! r· y ~)!) d y k rH'!I~J 1: h ;~-. 1: ! F tJ I:Hl 1: h ,,~ pE:opJ e :l n Por·t aux Rasques knet4J H1 d ;~ , M r . ~'l p ,,~"' k ''! r· , .:-1 n d 1~1!;! ~li.~ d l·.o accep·l. t.h(-! fctcl. tha·t-. SCHliE:' di'lY thE! r· .:1 i.ll~li:1 y no l . on y r:H' 1.110 11l. d I:H~ . T l·w ~;CifTI(-! as the pE:!OpJ.E:~ on the Cor.lst of

L3369 .Tunr-:! 21., 1988 Vol. XI.

Newfoundland who depended on the fer·r·y sf:!r·v · i.ct~~ For· transportat. ion from one community to anothE:r r· (.;! c:;tl, 'i_ l. ~=! d lAJ~lEHl Ul !.;! t' ()ad n e l~ lAIO r· k went it, that no J.onger wouJ.d thC:'Y l'ldVE! lhr>. us1::~ For· l:.hE~ Northern Ranger, l.:h~~ Springdale or· I: hE:! Taverner, Mr. Speaker.

If you were to ask thE•se peopJ.E• today if they would want to go back to that service they were g -i_ v f~ n b a c k 'i. n 1: h e 'l 9 4.0 s , 1:: h 1::' 1. 9 50s and j n the ear] y 1960s, they wou] d h=·ll you, r.llr·. Spr>.dkc~r·, '1\Ju, IAIE! do not V.Jclnt to go back to thclt rnocle of i·_r'c'1nspor·i·.dl-.:1.on. 1

If you aske:'d thE! const:i.t:uE•nt.s, Ml". ~~pe;·1kl:'r', ·in l.:h::• hon. nH~Jni:H'!t'' s district, down in Fortune il:~r·nri. i·.dgc,~. ·i.r UH''Y 1~1ou ·ld lii<E:! ~·o have a road networ·k going all the:' L\Jd y u p UH:~ co as l: or· conn E~ c t-.. i. n g v.Jith the main highway system :in 1': h i ~; P r· o vi. n c P , 1~10 ul. d i··. hey g i. v P 1,1 p their ferry sys·L.E!m, yE•s, Ml". ~) p t:~ o:1 k r,~ r· , 1: hey c IH' l d i. n 'l y 1~10 u l. cl .

r h ·i. s :i s ~~~ h co1 t r a i J v.Ja y . WE! oF -i. t ..

h c:'l S h •'1 p p t;! n H d I ALi. 1: h 0 Ll r·· haVE! SE!E~I1 thE! dE!ffl:iSE!

I c a n u n d e r s t. a n d 1: h ~1 f e e l ·t n g , M r . Speaker, yesterday of our tov.m fathers when i.:hey sat in that meetj ng and knew thE! railway was goi.ng 1-.o be signe:~d away. Tt. 1o~1as a Jittle bit. much for· thern to take. Mr·. ~3peakE~r, l:hey IAJdJ.ked out.

Mt'. ~)pc:~dkc,~r·, 1:-.hey havr,1 sornr~ gr·aVE! concerns. Mr. Speaker, as cl HI:'!Jfli:)C'!t' 1.ul10 r'Hflt'c,,snni-.s !::hose,~

people, I too have some:~ concerns 1~ri. 1-. h l: h '" d P .:d. , c o n r: r.~ r' n ~; abo u l: IAJ h d t :is going to hctppen t.ui th our toto~m .~nd l:h1~ d i.v,~r·si. F·i.r:dLi.on pr·ogrr:1m.

T filii s L ~' d y , T h .-w c-~ I:H'! r:! n IAJCH' k L n q ver·y, VEH'Y har·d since J haVE! bE!E:Hl l'!l.l:~c l::;,d fur· l·.h•.'l 1: ddy, Few th;5t't. day, knowjng good and well the

No. 60 R3369

raiJway was going to -Lnfrastr·uci::ur·~~ had to place.

go and an b f~ p u 1: _ i rli-: o

Mr. ~-lpea k ~;;H', 1: h,,, 1: J I;Jh y :i ·1 b.Jct s a g J'·Ha t 1\lei;,JfOIJndl·Hld, bu l: !ci nd day foJ" '1.11e FH-!Op]c::~ of R d s q IH:~ ~; .

I SdY

day of r'l

Por·t

1-.hd ~-:

for !)dc:l dUX

r~ t' . !") p 1:~ r:•l. k IC' t' , I,A) h 1-:~ 1'1 y () I I 1. 0 I) k d '{-_ I~J h i.~ [:

-1' h:i s dE:!ctl j s go:i r1g to do for ar·eas nr Nc·~I~JfOIJndliHld, yeo!~;. i1: ·i.s "' l~londeJ"ful ddy. T ~>E:H:! t-he rn~~rnbE:H'

f r· C) lfl R Llr' g ::! 0 ·- ['l;,, y cl I r s p () :i. r· (r·'lr' .

C:ilb~~r·t) s:.Lttjng ouer· Lhere.;!. WhN1 Lhe tot..~m faUHo!Y's gE!L on t'dd-Lo, ;:uJd J hear·d t.hern this ITlOJ"ning, I al.so lis tl'!ned l:.o UH,' hon. mewbc;!r' r'IS he.;! mi'lde,, h:i ~; speech t.oday, and h('! made t-.he->. rt->.lnar•k I I None,~ cH'<:! so blind as those who cannot see. 1

Mr·. Sp(~aker, i.f 1--.he r·~;;~sid!Hll-.s of Burgeo- Ray d 1 Espoir are so blind as to not knot;,J Hl'i.s is of ~H~nf:!rit

to them, then they do not deserue 1:. o g e I: t h e->. i r r· o d d p a u e d ! T h P y d o not deserue, Mr·. Speaker, to r· <:! c c,~ i. v e t: h e rn o n 1::~ y , <:1 s 1: h ~~ y c "' l. l. :it , b] ood rnoi1E!Y! RJ ood rnoney, Ml". Sf)(->.r:lkc->.t', i--.hey ca'll -i. i·. ! The mayor· fr·orn Rur·geo Lh:i s morning saj d they i:lr'c,~ go·i.ng 1-.o pi:lu:~ Uw t'Or'H:I l;r i. l:h blood monc->.y.

I e l rr1 ~! as k ·{ h P h o n . rn e,~ m be r· <'.!11 d J C:' t HH'! o'ISk 1·-.1-lt-:! r·:~si.denl-.~; nf HIH'91'!!), d j d t 1·1 (~ y J o s e <:t 11 y t n-u: k ? fh d they l . o ~; e d n y j o b s .:-l s i . 1-. r· ,,~ 1 a h:! s I: o Uw closlH'C::! of U1E:~ railway? No, Min. ~) p f'! •'I k e r· , b u L 1·: he y iH' e go 'i. n g L o be! nefi t, their· child r·e n a r·e going I~ o b e rH:1 F :L t , ,::~ n d t. h o i. t' i. n d u s t: r· y i_ s going to benefit.

Mr . Speaker, her·e we see the member today stand up in this House and IJ.Jhat does hf! do? Wha 1: does he do? He condE!rnns i:he deal! He condemns i~he d~~a 1.! Ht->. says it j s a S E!}l out.

1_3 3 70 .Juno :?.1., l98B Vol. XL

SOME HON. MfMBERS: H~~ar, hr::~i'tt'!

MR. MITCHfLL.: J:l·. ·i.s d Sl:~l. l 0111:, r.llr•.

SOMf HON. MEMRERS: Ri ght! Right!

MR. MITCHEL I : l1: ·h ilO 1: going l .n do rne in rny d:istd ct! S p H ; ·l k I) t' , i. 1-. . i. ~; .

S p ~~ d I< E! r· !

anyth-Lng f:or· Yes, MJ".

c: i.Hl h o n n ~; Ll. y s d y i . '1: -j s g o i. n g L: o

do something :1n his clistd.ct, Mr. Speaker, becMuso dfter 1-:.he next elE!ction they ar'E! going Lo halJE! a rnE:Hnb(;!r' do1~111 HH'!r' f-:' -Ln Bur·gec.o ~- 11ay d 1 Espoir who is going to represent th(:!lll "i.n ·l·:h'i.s Housf:~ r:~ncl i .s go .i.ng t.o represent them wel].

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hear!

MR. MITCHELL : II: --i. s nol·. go-ing l".o be"! r'l rnelflt)('!Y', Mr. Speaker, who is goj ng t:o stand :i. n 1·: h ·i. s l-1 o' 1 ·; :'! cl d y a F 1.: e r· day pr·e senti ng p~~ti ti ons, bE!ggi ng this g o u e r· n n1 P n i: l·.o do s n 1 n ~~ i--.1-J'i. n g f o r· them, and then, when the go v I:H' mnt,~ n l~ something h·i. !) r (-;~ ·~! t Jt! · Why

[·: I II" rl S i:H' I) I I 1'1 d d n d d C)('! S

for him, he.;! stands on •'lnr:l Si·ly~; 1 r do nol': IJ.Jdnl:: do I not IJ.Jc\nt :L t, 1 Ml".

:-) p e i·l !< t·) t'?

Wh;~ l: ·i s d

that my good hon.

fl o n i:l. u ·i. s l ·. d ~) o u ·I: h touchE:~d on j t.

MR. SIMMONS : Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER:

t' (~ d s () n ? r 1: h i n k co] le,'ague for·

(Mr·. Mor'gdn)

() po-i.nt oF order·, the,~ hon. l:.hE! member for Fortune- Hermitage.

MR. SIMMONS: I have listened with glneat

1\Jo. 60 R3370

:i nt EH'c~~~d. 1 o what the gE!ntlE:!man f t' om 1.. '"' P o i . 1. e i. s s d y ·i. n ~ I o s p e ci. d ll. y wj t h gr·ec•d- :intE:H'E:~st bE:~ cause I am go-i.n~ 1-.o llldi. l. d copy of 1-.oddy's llansClrd l.o the-~ people in Port aux BasquHs. I g ·ivc"! HH~rn nol·.'i.ct~ of thClt bE:'cause, Mr. Speaker, my po i.nl: of or·chH' -Ls th i.s: W~wn l u.1as outsidE! the ChambE!r a minute ago, T tlri.nk he"! ~H~rhc:1ps uni.nbHll-iona l ly mislead the House on a matter 'i.nuol.u i ng L:he Por·t i'liiX Rasqut"!s delegation. He suggested -

DR. COl. LINS : T hai ... is nor·. a poi.nl-. of or'd(:!t', Mt' . Spt~akco~r.

MR. SIMMONS : 1\1 t' . :;) p (~ r.l k (~ t' ' 1: o rrd s 1. r,~ ;,\C:I 1·: h :~ 1·1 o 1.1 ~; e ·.i~; a rna i.'l' E>I" t·hal ought to be-! b r· o u y h 1.: 1: o UHc. I I o IJ s H ' !; a 1: 1: c'! n 1: ·i. on, T ~:ubmi·l .

Ml~. ~>PFAKFR U'lcf\J'i.chol.ds) : The ho n. TliE:•rnbE~I" j s not poi n 1: of or·dr'!t'.

foflf~. !3H"1MONS : I CJ.n'l tr·ying, S·.ir'. I

mCJ.Id ng a

rise p o ·i. n 1·: of or' cl c;! r· 1-.o a11Hgt:!

on a 1: h(~

As ruernber has rrd sJ.eCJ.d the House. I u n d (~ t' s t a n cl l: h c"! t' u 1. e s I

rnatb:H' to be ra:ised as ordc"!r.

thai·: i.s a a point of

Mr. Speaker, place when he

the misleadi.ng took informed the Chamber

the Por~ aux Jeft because signed. They that reason at

Rasques the deal did not

aJJ..

dHlegation was being leave for

They ]eft because they were really disgustr~!d l':h~:1 rnC:~IrJb!~H' hc:~.d nol: sucCE!eded j n ge11:ing any rnor·e than $7 1ni.l.l.ion for· l:hc-~111. Th"d: is IAJhy ·l hey l ef't-! HE:~ j s ndsleadi ng 'l: hE! HOUS!'!!

SOMF HON. f"1Fr'IHFRS : II E~ i.~ )" I h (~ i:ll'' !

I B7l .J u n c~ ?. 1. , 1. 9 B R Vol. XI _

MR. SPEAI<FR : 0 r' d fH' I p 1. ~~ a s ~~ !

DR. COI..IINS: Mr. Speaker', to that. pojnt of Ol"df:H'.

MR. SPEAKER: To that poirit of order, the M.inister of Health.

the hon .

DR. COLLINS : I think it should be rna d ~=· a b u n d d n t l. y c 1 f'! d r· 1 ... o d n y o n c;! IAJ h o wishes to listE!I1 thE! han. rrwrnber j 1 1 s !: b t' o k H L h e t' u 1 {,~ s of 1: 1·1 i. s HOUSE!. HE:~ got Up on SOITIE:'t.hing he k n H 1~1 1Ak1 s n o 1'. ,·:-J. p o i. n l: o F o n:l E! r· . U: was just a play to thE• ga1J E•l"i<:•s by goi.'J i ng i·l !; pur' io11 s s p::! e c h. U ·. is cJ E:'arly an abusE:' o f th~::• I"U] C::.s of l'.h ·i!; Hclli'>f=! dncl L Lyp .. i. cr'tl of l he member opposite.

r'll? . .-r . c :11n r R : Min. SpC:~akE:!r' further' t.o o f o r· c1 !"! r· d i 1 d r 1·: h .. i. n k :i mpol"t.ant point.

that. th ·i. s

MR. SPFAKFR : lhr~ hon . i':hH North.

rn t;! rn b E:H' f o r· 3 1~ .

DR. COLLINS :

point. 'i. s , .. 1 n

John's

Mr' . S p c~1 a k (:. r·, 1: h r=! y a r· r,~ a 11. jmportant poj nts, but this j s v 11~ d 1. a n d t h d t. "i s 1·: h a 1-. , L h C::! m c~~ rn b t'' r oppositE! from Fortune - Herm:i tage, del ··i.b<"!t'a Lf~l.y go l lip to IAJdS i:C"! the time of this House and subtract l·:hE! 1:. i.rrH:! fr·orn f'.hf:~ rnembc;!r' on a spurious point of order. I sugg~:~st 1':1·11:. rnornbE!r''s l:.i1ne should be extended a littJ.e bit l:o couE:!r l:his !ci. nd of Hd.ng. I l:h.i.nk that thjs is onJ.y fajr.

MR. SPFAKfR : To l:h<~!: poi.nl·. of or·dHr·, UH=!t'f>. .i.s no point of order.

ThE:~ hon. ·t-he ITIE:Hni:H:'F' for l..aPo'iJ <o'.

1\Jo. 60 R3371

J

MR. SIMMONS: There he goes agaln .

MR. MITCHELL: Thank you, Mr. Speclker .

SOME HON. MFMRFRS: Oh, oh!

M R . J . C f'l R IT R : Ml" . ~"'ipc,~<-.tkE·!I" , a po :i.n ·l of Ol"der .

r., r~ . :3 P F A K r: r~ : A po:.i.rd of or·dE~ r·,

111 e 111 b e r· F o r· ~·) L . J o h n 1 s

r-1R. J. cArnr::R :

l hn hon. i'Jor· i:h.

LhE!

T I' ' c,~ C1 J. :i 2: e you <H' C:' E~ x t r· E:~ rn ely fa :i r , M r . S p e •'~ k f~ r· , d n d y o u ·1·. E:~ n d I·~ o OVE~r·Jook SOHIE! fr:ightful abUSE!S per·pe i':ra ted by I: he,~ IIIE:'Inbc'!r's

oppos:itr:~. I think it :is well

worthwhile listening to the tape to listen to what that member just

sa .id about Your· Honour . I th 'i.n k it is dJsgracefuJ.! It shou1d not

be allowed. The Tflf:~rnber· should be named. Disgraceful, it really is.

r-1 R . S P F.: A K E ~~ : To that point of order, I did not h e a r a n y c: o IIIIIW n t cll'l d c ~~ r· ~~ d "i. n l . y i . f I sc->.e anyth:ing in Hansard which is objc·~C'L'i.on,'lblc,~. :r. 11Ji.ll Sf:~,,~ l:hi:ll-. l ~ hf:1

matter is withdrawn.

TI·H~ hon. i:hr::~ lllt~!l'fii:H,~r· For· l.aPo i.lc-~ .

r-11~. YOIJI\JG : H0 sa:uj, he,~ S d i .d,

I y 0 U Wi] ] , I

'You t~ri. l.l.. 1

SOMF HON. MFMRFRS: Oh, oh!

MR. MITCHfLI

Mr·. Speaker·,

Mr·. SpedkC:1r, r I~Jould l.i.ke to i:c:~l.l.

t.hr:~ hon. the membE:1r for Fortune -Hermih~lge (Mr·. S.Lrmnons) ht~ lAJi. l.l

not have the opportunity to send my speech l:o the rc~s.idents of Por·l:

aux BasqUE!S or LaPoi.Je becausE~ I am go·i.ng to bH do i.ng it.

L3372 June 21, 1988 Vol XI..

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hc~i:lr, h~~ar!

MR. MITCHELL: (ls soon as 1 am foi.ni. ~;hf'!cl hE:!re

today, I wilJ. be sending my speech 1-.o ·1·.hc,11n. Thi.s "i.s E'!Xdcl~ly L1Jhy, Mr. Speaker, I lAJanted to havE• the pr··i.vi. l . l-:'91:1 or enl:et•"i.l'lg l·.h ·is dc.~bal·.e

l: odr:·1Y .

M r· . S p e:1 a k e r· , t h e h o n . m EHn b e I" tAlc< s a 111 i n·i :; 1: t:! t' .

MR. YOUNG : For 10 days!

MR. MITCHELL : l .f:!l : rnf:~ ask h ·i.1n, t'lnd pt' Obi't bl.y h(~!

can tell the people down in his r•i.c:l ·i. ng, hoi)J 111Uch woney hE:! gol: for

them when he signed the deal to have the coastal boat ferry service eliminated on his coast, Mr· . SfH:1 r::l keY'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear·, hE!ar!

MR . MITCHELL : Let him gE!t. up clnd tell us lAJhat k ·i. 11 cl of d r~ d l. h :->. rna d c,~ .

Mr . Speaker, :r. do not mind standing j n this HoUSE! today and -·

r.,R. SIMMOW->: I ylng and-] ying!

MR . MITCHH.L: :;,:~yi . ng ·l·. hdl·. T ,,,,n nol'. Sdl:·i. sf-i.c~!d.

MR. TOBIN: (l p o i. n l·. o f or· d c.~ r· , M t' . S pea I< e r· .

MR. SPF.AKF.R: 0 r· d f:H' • p 1 e as f:! !

A p o i. n t o f o r de r· , I: he h o n . the

Mjnister of Social Services.

MR. TOBIN : I think, Mr· . Speaker·, t:he comments

No. 60 R3372

f r· o 111 Uw HI~-:' m b t:~ r· F o r· F o r· 1: 1 1 tw Her·nli i age tAle r·t~ c J ear i..o e u er·y one i.n Hl'i. s Ho11Se 1~11·wn he~ Ull.l f~d U·w hon . nH:~rnbE:H' t'l J ·iar. T think Your H o n o u r· , h 1,~ s h o ul. cl b r~ 111 c:~ d (:~ I ·.o wit hdr·aiAJ i'l.. That type of conduct should nol: bP pr~r·1n-i . i:·l·:ed i . n ·l:his House, Mr. Speaker, r.lnd jf it is per· 1 n:i. t 1: r>. d t: o con t ·i. nUl':~ , y o u 1~d ll SN) ·l oo much of :it.. I think, M1··. SfH~ak<>.r, lt. is t.JfH"j ·irnport:enlt. t:he hon. rnernber bE! ordE!red to wi thdraLIJ l:. hat. ·Lmrnedi.dtely.

MR. SPEAKER : To that point of order. hE!i::lr l:hl':~ hon. rnl.':'lflbl-:ot·

comments about J y:i ng and ask hi.1n to IAJil::hdr·aiA.I t:he1r1.

MR. SH~MOW) :

I did rnak i.ng

I IJJOUld

T was IAJCJ.:ii:ing M r· . S p 1:~ a k f:' r· . l.aPoJJe -

for the translation, The

scm:=: HON. MEMIIF.RS : w·.i ·r h d 1" a1.u ! w·.i ·r h c:1 r· i'lLIJ !

Oh, oh!

Mf?. SPF.(lKF:R: or·de1", pJE:~as8!

MR. ST.Mr-10NS :

1flt~lllb f:' r· f C) t'

The member· for I. aPoiJ e has said I signed d deal ~bout the ferry SE:'r·u:i ce. I neuer did that., and for· hi.m l:o say U1di': is 1-.o l.i.e, Mr·. Speakt::H'! That. is t.o lie! That is LIJ hat IAJl"! c cill d l. .i. c,~ in t h is country, a J.iE:)!

MR. SPEAKER: Or•der• 1 please!

The ho n. rnEHflt.H?. r IA.J.il.l IAJi. t h d Y' o3LIJ these remarks.

l'-1R. SIMMONS: Thl-) hon. 111~~1nbf:H' 1~1-i. L.hdr·dlW>.

Ml~. SPE(lKFf~:

Th~·~ hon. ITI(->.rnber w·il J pl~:~ase s:i"l.

1.:1373 JUtlfJ ?.1., 1.988 Vol XI

d 01~11'1 n 01~1 .

MR. SH~MONS:

The hcin. rnernber rtses on a point. () f C) t' d (~ t' .

Mf~. ~1PF.f.IKFR:

A po:i nt of ordE:~r, thE! hon. the ul!~!nlb(:!r for· For· l·.t.II'H>. ·- Hr-:tr'ITI'i.l::ag~:! .

MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker, on a po:i nt of ordE!r . T I ·H~ g en t l <:' 1 n a n f r· om P e t _ 'L 1: e s !JJ h o ·i s squirming becaUSE! he sold out l:hE• p e o p l. e o F P o r· r_ i'tll x B a s q u e s yesterday, cannot correct the r· e c or· d by g r,~ l·. 1:·. i. n g u p i. n 1.: h i s 1·1 o u s e and misleading, misleading!

MR. SPEAKER : S j_ l: d OI~Jn !

Th ~~ ho n . lrll:~mb e r· J~ s no l: rna king a pojnt of order .

MR. ST.MMONS : How would you know?

~·11'?. ::>PF(li<Ff~:

T beg YOU I" pat·don!

AN HON. MFMRFR: N a rrll~ ~l'i. rn , M r· . S p e a kr->. r .

MR. SPEAKER: Tht:~ hon. tnc->.rni:H'!r' IAJi.l.J. IAii l:hdr'r'l.IJ.J t:hat: remark immediately.

MR. SIMMONS : T IAri.Lhdr·aw, Sir·.

I want to rjse on a pojnt of order.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

I am prepared to hear a point of or·df~r fr·orn l:.h(:1 hon. m~:!rn~HH' as t LIJjJJ from every other han. member, but: lei: lllH just: I;Jdt'n l::h~~ hon. member·: If he thinks h~:· can got. up fHoH's·i.~;l:t,~ni'.l.y, l::i111:~ aFhH' i::"irne, on a poj n ·l of ordEH' .. _

1\Jn. (jQ [~3::1'73

MR. SIMMONS : No, Sir·. That LIJas not my .intf~nt .

MR. SPF.AKER: abusing the privileges of

House, I certain]y would l: h (:~ not

condone thclt .

fhf:~ hon. l:hr~ mc:Hnb<"!t' for· Fori-:.LHl:~

Henn] tagE'!.

MR. ~iiMMONS :

~1 r· . S p :,~ •'1 k i'' r· , t) n i'1

Til at wc-u; n P v E:! r· my 1:!) .~ b 1,1 s (! .

p () . i. n ; : () r !) r· d (! r· .

:irttentjon, S:il",

:30MF liON. r"'HJ!A FRS: Olt, oh!

r~l~. ~>PF~i<U~:

Tf th~~ han. member· IJ.dsh<-?.s to make cl point of order, I will. hear it.

MR. MORGAN: Ci:ll'l CJ yde not control the mE:~mbers

o v e r· t h e r· r:~ ? C a n C l y cl e n o 1: c o n l:J'• o 1. you?

MR. SIMMONS : Can the Speaker not control you?

MR. MORGAN: Can Clyde not control you?

MR. SPErlKFR: Or·d<:~r, please!

MR. SIMMONS: Ml". ~~P~~akC:H', on ill poj nt of or·dr:'r .

J hdve r'll.t~kl)JS IHldi-H' !; 1:ood i. n UJi.s

Chi'.lrn~wr·, rwd c:ol'Teci me :if I am

•~wong,

ud ~; J ~~ad l:hdt: a t.h~:! Hou s ~~.

fll!:' I Ill:) I:H'

I cilrn i:o UH"~ .::~U:nnL'i. on of l : ht·~

t hr.d. thCit· gE>-ntl f:Hnan

CiHlilOL

drcu.~.dng

C h i·lnlb t:' r·

has d H 1 i. b c:~ r· ;'I 1:: r:! 1. y rn i. s 1. :>. d I: h c,~ II o 1.1 s ,,~

tlds one. on

MR. SPFAKFR: 0 r d ~~ r , p 1. f~ c;\ s t'! !

rhe hon. In E!lll b ("! r• IJ.rl. l l. h<~l Vf>. ·t-.o

withdraw that comment now, that

L3374 June 21, 1988 Vol. XL

the han. member del t beratE! ly Hlisled l:h<-?. !·louse-?..

The han. the member for FortunE! -H t:H'rrd i-.• :~ g <-?. .

MR . SH'IMONS : Mr. Speaker, if unpar·l i t:-~Jrwnl:ar· y, r'\S l is, I withdraw d :'! 1. i. b <:~ r· .:.,: I:(:' 1. y . 1· h t;! r· H

question that he has ilo•J~>t:' on 1-.1-l'i :; cHlt~.

r-~~~- J. C~RTFR :

That i~; not a w:i thdr·aiAJl .

DR . COLI INS:

it is b~>.J.iE!Vf~ .il·: !: he ter·n1

.. i. s nu misl e d the

Mr. Speaker, on a point or order .

MR. SPEAKER: (.) p 0 . L 11 t () r 0 r· d t·H' ' HH:! h () n . Lh f:!

Minister of Health.

DR. COLLINS: Mr . Speaker, l'.ht·~ hon . lfletnb<:!r' has

just perpetrated a tactic which i s h'i.s tr·ad(,~lrlar·k . lh>. hr"lS risf:!n on a number of points of order .

Cl.~>.ar·l.y, l'lOI'lf'! Of 1-.hUin IAJf'!I"E! Jegitimate and Your Honour even

had l:o, afl:er hf:hH'i.ng a n1..11nbc:!r of them, point out he was not gE!tting anytAJht-=!t'c"! near· making a l.<:~git'i.rnatr:'

p o i. n t of o r• d (-?. r .

There cc-:111 only be one r'<:!ason for· him doi.ng l·:h<~l' : .~nd thi:\1~ ·i. s h(-?. .is

imp:i ngi ng on LhP t:i ITIE:' allot t:e•d to

Hlt:~ hon . nl!:~ml:H~r· rot· Por·l-: aux

Rasques (Ml". M:it.chr:.~lJ). HE:' has not)J i· .• :~kf,~n bJ(!l. l. over· Five:~ w:i.nul:r,~s

of hjs Lime. Th::i.s was clE:~al"]y a

i: dC !·:·i.•: .

r"' r· . fa:jr

S p t-:~ ;~ !< o r· , 'f. t-. h 'i. n k i . 1: 'i. s o n 1 1J

in vieLIJ of that dE:'libN·ate i:a!< 'i.ng dtJ.JdY oF 1-. i.me Lhe hon. member has as a right as a mE!mber of t:hi.s House:~, l.:hdl: 1-:hi.'l.i·. t.:i.1ne

should be added on and he be

d1l.OIAJ<>.d i·:o f:i.wi.sh hi.s r·emr.H·i<s in

the manner he feels they should be

No. 60 R337'~

fln:i5hed.

~=IOMF HON. Mt.MP.FRS : Oh, oh!

MR. SPFI1KF:R: Ot"dE:!t"' p] PC!SE-~!

T ltEH'E~ :-i i: no po:i nt of or·dE!r.

The,! hon. the nwmbE:~r· for· I. aPo:i.J.C~! .

MR . 1\-HTCHF.:I. L : T hank you, Mr . Speaker .

I gl.I E!SS l:'.hc,~ hon . UH:! Htorrtbf:!r' fo r Fot" l unE! - HE:~rmi.tage (Mt~. Sj mrnons) d oC'! S nol-. tAJanl rrJ (>. i·.: o b(->. _Ln~:o l:.hi s debate this af t ernoon because i t .i s go i ng to ~~ rnbar·r·a s s lri.rrt, Mr· . Sp e aker· .

SOMF HON. MEMBFRS : R i.ght: on! R i. g h 1: on !

MR. MITCHElL.: Hf~ do1~s no!'. tJk\nl·. trt r:! l·:o acldr·r'!SS l::he ccnrcPnrs o-F Pen·'!. c.:wx Bai;qlH:'S. HP cln o s no l: l)k\1'1 l: HI!'! I: o lJ r,~ I: ·i. i'l l: o i·:i'w body of my spE:!E:'Ch, Mt" . Speaker·. I on l. y h;,, IJ f:~ ,::d:)ortl: F :i. f 1: C:! I'! n rrri_ n11 1:1,~ !; lc~ft: <~nd I do hc'.IVE~ a tremendous amount: of C!Htcr,~r·n a s 'i.L: r·:~l.dh:'!> l:o th8 clo5UrP of Lhe raJJway.

Mr·. Spr,~dker·, I: IJJ· ·~ n l ·. 1-. o poj nt hE~ made otr a point j u s 1·: f o t" t. h f~ r· f;! c o r· d clarification. He said

addr·c~s s i'l

of ordE:>r', d nd for· I misled

T. tdlkr~!d !·: he House y1>.s h->.r·day tJJi·H~n about the rE:~presentatives of Port aux Basques leaving th~t meet.lng dur·ing the s:i g n j ng of thj s h i s t o r i c d c->. <'I l. . f.IJ r· . S p ~->. d k e r· , 1 a m going to read exactJ.y from the pr·e s s re l.er;"ts e the->. +:otAJtJ f,31 +: her·s oF Port aux Basques, the same people, Mr. Speaker, who walked out of that meeting yesterday, released 1-.o I·: he pr·f~S s. I tJ.Joul.d l. 'i. k ~~ i··.o r e a d t h E:~ J a s t s E!rt t. E:Ht c e of t h a t press release, Mr. Speaker.

1.3171) Jltnr,~ /11., 19138 lJol. XI .

It says, "We have discussed our r:Oi'JCI:'t'ns IJJ"i. l:h 1-. hr~ NE~r~Jfoundl a nd Railway deal with our M . P . , Jo e P r· i r: c) , and our· M . H . A . , C a 1 Mjtchel1. We have a deep sense or s<.v.in1,~~; !; at ·1'.1-tf:' lo~; s of I: he~ Newfoundland Railway, bearing i n rni.nd l:h1,~ h i ~;l : or· i r:dl. associr:~l:. 'i. on oF thr:~ town lAd 't.h Ud s industr·y . As a rt~sul. l: of l : h~:! rnpc,~L-.i.ng tAJi.th our· electE!d repr·esentati.VE!S, L~JC'' iH' E!

nor~J a~;sut • (:•d l:hat·. our con c ei" tJ S IAI .. i .l l. b ~~ .~ d d r e s s e d . "

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hf:~ar, hE!dY'!

MR. MITCHELL : Mt". Speaker, J.et ITIE! ask the hon . tnt~rnbc?.t' i.F hf~ got an r;•nclor· s('! trt~:!nt Jjke that frorn thE! pE!oplE! :l.n Port .. aux Rctsqi.J(~s whl'!l'l hl->. r·f~ pr·E:~ s c-?. nLr.;! d them? No, Mr. Speaker, he ha s n o t and h e nev e r did .

AN HON. MEMBER: And he never w l ll .

Mf?. MT.TCH f 1.1..: Mt". SpE:~abO!r', 1-. h 1,~ t' 1,~ !i I: o 1-ever·y issue r· ~~ 1. r-:~ d s () .

I r.u1r going to r..tddt"E! SS il: . T I•J ·i. l l. dddr· e ss

rajsed jn l.hc~t prc~ s s

Rut, Mr. Speaker, I remernb E!r lAJh E:~ n r IAJ· ·~s orH'! of Lhn ll,' i:"lciHr'!; ·L n t i'tdt. community and that par·Ucular hon . rnetrtb:~r· told rrtr-~ !:. hal:: i_F I c:l'i.d not·. tow the party line and dtd not do

IAJ h d. 1:: h (! anothE!r

sa"i.d, CE:Hlt

L r· e i:l. s u t' y a s anything to do

lA)('! IAJOUJd ne~J(;!r' qc;!t out of the federaJ. lang as he had

with it. ·

SOMf HON. MEMBERS : Sharne! Sharne!

Mf~. MTTCHEL.L: Mr·. Speaker, that is the premiSE! o n t)J lri. r: h I rn d r:k! tn y s tc:l'i~ e m EHl t. earlier. He is sitting therE! and no l: t' ,,~ p r· H ~; c,~ n 1.: "i. n g 1·: h r·~ p C.:! o p ·1 t:~ . M r· . Speaker, I neuer t ried to pJay

No. ()0 rn :n s

thr1t type of poJ.itics and I never·

IAJ.i.ll. .

Mr·. Speakt~r, I i:llll not, h~:H·e on 1ny

feet j n the House today, going to

tow the pclrty 1lne on this one

because "it is the people of

LaPo .ile IAJho put rne h~!r'r'l, i. t i.s t:hc->.

peop] E:~ of I. a Poi] e I am going to

r'l->. p r· c->. s r~~ n i·. d n d ·i. i: ·i. s l'.: hE~ p ~~ o p 1 ~~' of

I ctPoile I i'..lm go:l ng to today stand

U p d l'l d f i. g h [·: f 0 T' b e C d I I S r-~ I~ h H 1j h d U f:!

CCHif·ldE:'I'ICE:~ j 1'1 thE:! riiE'ITiber they

r-:1 le c l:r:!d.

SOM ~ HON . MFMBFR S : H (:! a 1~ , h c-1 r..tr' !

~1R. r-1ITCHFI I M r· . ::) p 1:~ a !< 1:' r· , 1 l: o o k l:l-11-~

o p p o r·t. u n ·.i ·l y yes t E:! r d r-t y i. o takE:! my

IJJI) II t1 d «:'! d 0 n:- ·i. C i. d 1 S , I~J h 0 f :~ 1l: V 1-H' y

woundE~ d with i. hE:~ cHII'iOIHJCemen-1:, up

he t' l~~ .;uH:I J s "''1: d 01~m IAJ i. '1: h U1 '=' 111 1: n

go over· thE~ dE-!al, to look at !JJhy

l:lv-?.y L•Jer·e d.issat:i. sf·i.r~d IJJi.th IAJh,:~t

IJJas s-.igned YE!Ster·day, and pr·obably

hav<~ a look at. IAJhat 1~1as orni.tLed,

unjntentionaJly perhaps. Mr .

Spc-?.akc:H', IAJE! d i.d that:. I 1-.al.I<E:~cl t.o

them this morning. I had a

t e 1 e phone confer· e n c c-?. u.li t h them at the{r Chamber and I toJd them I

u.Joul.d be spr~~ak i.ng i.n the House

today and I would be addressing

l:hc-?..ir concE~rns.

Mr . ~3pei:lkc~r. T IAJiHll: Lo do l·:h.::tl: . J

hope to dt':!al 1.1.rith rny concern for

Hli. s d ~~ <'\ l o:Hl cl f () r 1: h fl. hJIAJrl I~Jh i. c: h

OIICE:! had OVEH' 2000 pE:~Op}e IJJOrkj ng

i.n U1c~~ t'<'li.ll~Jdlj i.ndus U·y, i-Hld hi:lS

~;;:.d by in thE:! Jast twenty YE~ars

dl'lci IAlo::ti".dH>.d l:h:~ diAJindl ·i.ng dl~l•'IY dild

the E-~rTos:i on of ·l hcd J ndustr·y.

rl!t'. Spr,>..:~kc:~t·, 1--.h:>. 1-.0I~Jn f;~l-.hHt''), !:hi'!

E-!1ec-tc~!cl offjcicl1s, have l.I.IOink~;:~d

v e t' Y h<H' d l: o l.r· y 1-Hld l:ut•n I: h.~ 1:

a round 1 knour:i ng yes te rday u1as

g o i . n g 1-. o c o nH-:l . .J u n ,_, ?. 0 1 l 9 H 8 1~Ji. l 1.

b e a d a y t hat wj 11 b e long

r· e melllb fH'e d i. n l:he m'i. nd s o f l:h t-)

I 3 376 June 21, 1988 Vo] XL

residents of LaPoile .

I hope, Mr. Speaker, it is also

go'ing t.o bt' c:l rlE!W bE:!g:inn'i.ng

because that fear was always

h d. n g :i. n g o v E:H' t: h r:>. .i t' h e a d s , I ~ h E:~ f c'! a r

that the axe was going to fall.

rJir Speak 1>. r·, T. do no 1: b t-?.1 :if~ v e l: her· e

was anybody who worked with the CN

r· i:\ "i.l.IJJ<'l y ·i. n t: h i:l t ·i·: own t: h c:\ t d i. d not havE:~ that fear and yE•stE!rday that

fedr was rPdl i ;ecl .

1\JorM, Mr· . Spe.::t!u•r', l:: l·lf:•r'e iH'c'! so 1n e

gr·ave concer· ns bE!caus E! thE:! r·a-.i]u.Jay

IAri. ll. no l o n g ''! r· ~~ x ·i ~; :-. . 1/\1 n r:-11" c-'! no t:

looking a t fifty - four people who

dt' :) go:i.ng i·.n b1:! ,_.,ffl:'l: i· HLI in Po1"l~.

aux Basques, but '1:-.hE:'rE:' is a

t:cml: i ng1:~ ncy l:h;-d : l .(:!fl Ci'.J s cHnH

.YE:~iH'S ago fOI" 91" E:~atel" se ClH'i·t.y

I~Jh(:~n r'ldr' -inn Al-.l.anl·. "i.c bE!Cdl'fiE>. a

Crown Corporation. For that

s ~-~ c '' r· "i. 1·. y , M r· . S p c~ d k ~~~ r· , <:'t n cl bE:! c a 1 .1 s (:~

they knew the axe was going to

fall o n the r i:l i1w~y. they we nt

with this new Crown Corporation .

S ·i. n c c-~ 1-:hf'! t'di. l .IAJdy i. s go i ng 1:. 0 go,

we are going to see thirty-fiue or

for·l.y I maybe lllCH'e, of those

employees affected. Mr. Speaker,

i: hc-?.y IJJc~re not addres s t:!d

yesterday.

I have had a communique with this

gov(~rn1nHnl~. dnd thE:~ MP ·in Ol·:t. <~IAJa i. s

having communique wjth the

govccH'rlHH:.nl~ oF 01 -. h~i~la . J can h :!J.l.

you nou.J that if t.h(:!re is any !JJay

i . n ,., d d r· c,~ s s · i. n g I: h o:\ I: p r·o b 1 ~-~ m , 1-: h i::l. t

pnoblern wiJJ have to be

add t ' 1-~ ~; s o d . T t IAJ ·i 1. 1. h r:-1 u r-'! 1:: u be

addressed, Mr . Speaker.

SOMF HON. MFMRFRS : Oh 1 oh!

MR. MITCHfi.L : 11'11-~ 1·10 n . lllt'!TIIb ::! r· c d n no l: l:a k e ·i. t,

Mr·. Speaker! Election day is

go ·i.ng l:o i·yll. IAJho sold 1~1ho ou l:.

The hon. member is quite

E~xpc-~r· .. i . EHlC~~d ,:~ 1-. Hli'll: .

No. 60 R3376

[ dill

going go i . n g 1: o s tan d 1.1 p and Lo suppor·t. my people.

T din I arn

going l·:o look for· lllor·,,~ llltHH:~Y d!i i. l: r e 1 i:l t e s 1 o i hE-! d :i v EH' s j f j c a ·L i o n .

SOMF I·ION. MFMRFRS : llc'!dt', hl:~oH'!

rJJ I( . M T. T C H F I. I . ; 1'-11" . S p ~~a k C-:! r· , I i:!l r· C-?. cl d y h CJ. v ~:! cnnr,,l:i.ngs ~;r'!l'. up 1~1i.i':h l'.h<~ off·i.ci.r•ll~; of l !·cE·! r·<d lv.1ay and offj d e1ls of I. h E:! rJJ d r· i n H () 1: l. d 1'1 1". i C 1: 0 d i . !; C 1.1 S S tlc:i.!; pr·oblern on an elnE!rgency br:l S i. S.

Mr. SpeakHr, new deal, we deal!

i. F .i I:: Hlf~ i:Hl s d o i n g d

are going to do a new

SOME HON. MFMRFRS : Hec1r, hE!ar!

MR. TOBIN: He is not ljke you, betraying the people of ~urgeo.

MR. M1TCHFI.I. : Mr . Spc-'!C·..lkE:!I", he tJ.Ias party t o the do i n9 "''~ldiJ of Lhn Ff:!t't'IJ sHt'IJ .. i.c::~ on thE:! South Coast.

M r· . ~., p e d k I:H' I 1~1!:' h d lJ e o'l l)('! t' lj :inielligenl, aggrc-:!ss :i.vE:~ leadership ·i. n i·:l-w d 'i. s I: r· i. <:1: o f 1.. a flo 'i. h~ <:Hl d T cHI! Vc-!r·y confldE:~nt :in the:i r· C·lbi.l. i l:y. r'lt'. !')pno'lkHI", IJwy h<.W:~ ihe confidence in their elected liH:~lllbc:!t' l:o sc,~c~ l':lri.s t:h·i ng i'.hr·ncJgh. Wl':1 arl':' going to have a di v er·s i: F·i. Co'! t 'i.on pr·ogr·a111. Mr. SpE:!aker·, I can tel] you nov.1 this d 'i. v t·?.r' s i. F ·i. c a 1.: i. o n pro g r· am h a s be~=!n ongo:ing for a Jong time.

Mr. Speaker, we knew lhe railway was going to go, and through the effor·i:s of our· IOE~mbc->.r· i.n Ot.:tawa, we got the Enterprise Development Cent~~r put-. into placf~ in Pori~. aux RasquE:~s, $3 million, v.rith the indus~rial park, Mr. Speaker!

l.13 '77 JurH~ /.l, l9BB Vol XI .

W~:' ht'ld our· $10 rrdJJion!

harbour· d(:~Vc'!lopcnent,

Mr. Speaker, in our future's pr·ogt'dfll, I~H,~ pll'l: ·i.n $6 lll'i. lli.on, about $3 million directly inlo 1: r· r·d i'l'i. n 9 the MDT p j"l)lj t' o'\nJ 1

progr·arn!

"i. n P o r· 1: ;_,, 11 x pr·og l"arn,

r-'lr· . Sp:~'''b~r·,

lldSqUHS,

in thE! ·i. n Lht'!

Lrl

qc qA

We have tuiE:Hlty students nOIAJ

I~ r· "' ·i. rw cl 1~1 o r· k i i 1 g o n I I'H'! mainla nd who will be back here in Nc:' bJFoundl.o.'lnd I~Jor· lci. ng in l:hE! ofFshore dE!veJ.opmE!nt., u1hen that :is r:t n n o u n c f:! d , M r· . S p l:~ a k H r· . T h a i: i s the type of diversification Lhat. t:h .i.s ITif:!lnber hd s beC'!I'l do .i.n g, r-~r· . Speaker!

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Ht,~ar, hear!

MR. MITCHELL : Mr. Sp8clker, we new hospital :in •; 0 1:: h d l'. p 0 t' t d I I X

phased out!

AN HON. MFMRFR : ( Tndud i.ble) .

MR. MITCHFI..L:

d i. d no I~ bu "i. ld a Port aux Basque s fl d S q II f! :; 1<10 ul. d bE!

r-1r·. ~)pPdk!~t·' l:he hon. HHWII:H~r· dol:!S nol like to hear the truth.

fi-1R. SPFAKFR : Or·dt~r·, please!

The:~ hon. lllHIJI~wr·' s Li. nlf~ lv1s (·~lapsc:!cl .

SOME HON . MEMBERS: .By l E! a v e ! 8 y-fe a v e !

MR. MITCHELL: Mr. Speaker, I would -

DR. COLLINS: A poi. n 1': of or· d P. r· , M r . S pea !u~ r .

MR. SPEAKER: A po:int of order, thE! hon. the

1\lo. ()0 R3:P7

Minister of Health.

DR. COLI 1 NS: M t' . S p E:~ a k e r , T F (:' e 1 r· e a l. l. y l: h a r. i. t :is necessary to bring a poj nt of or·der· befor't.;! the,~ House;! now,

because I think a number of m~~rnbc;!r's Ln Uli.s Houst.;! arf~ r't.;!dl.ly not clear - I rnust say I count mys~->.lf i.n l:hal: nurnber· - on exactly where we are with our procedure.

M r· . S p f~ a k ~'! r· , y c-~ s i: f:! r· d i'l y 1~1 c-~ got : i. n 1: o

!: hE-~ t.hii"d r·ecld:ing of bills. It h d s b e (:Hl UH>. 1-. r' ad 'L L i o n i. n 1: h i s

Hous(,! thr.-1t un]c.;!SS t.here:1 is a

SpC:~ci. ri.c: r:·llfll.;!rldlfH:HlL 1.0 l:lf.! br' OIIghl-. :i li 011 t.h:ir·d r·c~ading, th:i rd r·eading i.s , ·~l. Jnosl ·. ,,, For'llldl.iLy . r·-1r·.

r; p E:! Cl k P r· , Your· Honour· cor r e c t.l y t'IJ-1 t:!d U1.:!r·c,1 lll·:~y l:w th1bi·li:H ·i.n l·.lri.r·d l'' c-!i'l d j n g , b u l You r· H on o u r· a] s o

r·ul.c,1d i.l: hdd l:o be a nol"r·owJy .. . focuse:!d, specJ.fJ.c de:~bate,

IJJ e:1l. J. d c'! F i . n :>. d d n d n o L r· .:t n g i. n y

b~!yond i.h~1 subjE~ct matter in the

b i. 1. 1. .i. '1: s f>. l f '

Ill! l'! I~ I(! 1'1 i~ 0 rl J ·i_ !< (~ t: h d 1·: 1- 0 t' a IAI h '.i l. c-:!

and cJ.ear·ly thE! busim'ss of the

House;! t~Jas not. be-i.ng pr·oct:~edt'!d tAd th

because, I think, it IAJas the hon. member for· rJJount Sc.io - Bell Island (Mr. Barry) who kept

rang'i.ng be:~yond ·!:he l.:i.m:i.t.s thai:: Your Honour qujte correctly set for· h.i1n.

Fi.nal.ly, t.o gE!t. us out. of thdl:: impasse,~, :it u.Jas dedded u.Je 1/Jould go Uwoug h a nu1nbc'! r· of t:h ·i. r·d r(:!ad:i ngs, then IAJe u.Jould go back to 1-: h c~~ 1·: h i. r· d r· e d cl··i. n g o n a b "i. l.l. 1~1 h i. r: h 1/Jould gj ve an opportuni t.y, by agr·c,1::!t!IUnl·. dnd Your· Hono•lt' r·ecogn:i:L(:!d th :ls agtnE:~'ernen·t by both si. dc~s of l: hc,1 IIOU!)f:~ i:o <.!jc~t ·i.nl:o

t-hi.s debat-li:~ on the ra:ilu.Jay s ·i. 1:1.1 a 1-. ion .

r~r·' Spc-~r~lkc'!Y' I i:h;"t I•Ji~S '!JC:!S h:!t'd.-~y ctrtd IAI~' had, I Hd nk, about an hour· ,., n d d h "' l r () f d (:' b .... , 1. (! ' ·~' 9 '" ·i. n b y

I 3 378 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

agreement on both sides, and we IJJ()lll.d not hold OIH'$C;!1V~H; l::O l:i'lCc!

estabJjshed procedures recognized by· J:Wc.;!cedfwt -Ln t:h ·i. s House I and,

indeed, supported by BE!auchesne and F.rsk"i.ne r"'ay, !: hal··. t;.H->. would

not, by agreemE!nl, hold ourselves t:o i:hos~~ · narTOI~J l.Jrnit:s, and Your Honour recognized that because l::her'l->. t;.Jas agrf~c-wten 1:: on bo U1 s i. cles .

WE! havE! now gonE! a not her se v e ral hour·s on t :.h(~ subj<'!Ci~. Mr·.

Speaker, I do not seE! that lAJC'! a re [ l.!jO nol .. g c'!t !:hal- -i. mpt"t'~ss·i.o n

aJ·tyway - any nE!arE!r gett:ing a vo l:.e

o n 1·. h i s 1·: h · i .. r· cl r· e d cl·i n g o F l:. h f~ b L l. l , cHIY l'lE!aJner• 1101AJ than IAJ(c' 1..1.1(~\" E' IAlhE!I'l ,,Jc,1 s l· . .-.n· l:c-~ cl "'n h o 11 r· r'l n d d l·h't -l. F _y e st e r· de~y and approx:imat E!]y two hotH'!> l:oday.

~-) o I M r· . !1 p :,~ ''' !<c:'t' , I: 11 e p o i. n t. of or·der I br-ing up js th:is that. t:h:-is 'i.s no 1: .:'1 F·i.l.i.b•.ls I:1H' .

(IN HON. r.IJFMBFR: I'L :is .

MR. DINN: Oh, l.:is LE!rl t:o h i. rn noiAJ! Look!

DR. COLLINS: The hon. member is an expert on

You are an expert on f i. 1. .i. b Lt s t c->. r s ? fjljbusters?

AN HON. MEMBER : Y<->.S'

DR. COLLINS : Yes, if the han. member :is an f~ x p c;! r· 1·. on F i.l. i . b 1.1 s 1·: P r· s , I guess T

will have to accept his wording on 1·: h :i. n g !) . ~) o I: h c:' h on . HH~ 1 n b ~~ r· s a y s

it js a f:iJ:ibuster and I acCE!pt. l: h<.·d: ·i.F h:,~ IJJc'lnl .s 1-:o pt.tsh that po:int.

Anyi..~Jay, the point of or·de:'r' I make ·i !i l·_hd 1·. i. F 1-.hnr'l>. i !; dgr'f:!l'!TilfHJI-. on both sjdes U.JE:1 lAdll, sltalJ we say, bc;!nd !·.he t'tll.C:!S d l. · i . l:l·.lc,~ b ·it~ for· a

No. 60 R3378

certain reason, to achieve a certain objectjve, and then that obj eci":i. ve i.s not be "i.ng ach:i.:->.Vf:~d, and J suggest that.. after dE!bating F 0 t' -1:1~)() cl r:~ y s d n d I~JH a r· f~ n 0 n [~ d r· f:~ r· the vote, the objective is not. b1:~ ·i_ny .:-\ c h-i.r->.v t~d. "i. f 1-.hd l: i. s :·-.l-11:~ cc:~sE-~ I ·think it js quitr:! in ordEH' f 0 r· () n e ~d. d t'! 1-.0 l~ri 1: h d r· r'11~) ·i. 1.: ~) ag r·c-!8nl~~ 11 ·t·. t· o go by thJ 5 :i rr·eg uJ ar p r· o c e d 1.1 r· :,' . () s .r: ~;; .:-1 'J , 1.1 n l :~ s s i·: he r· 1,~ :i !~ ~;(JTII~~ Jnd:i cat ion IAIP do not have io do ih .. ii·., I do nol: l.i!<::! l:o do j t . I do not- IAJdnt: ·to IAri thdr·a1"1 thr~ pot'lni.ssi.on on thLs si. d:,~ For· t·. h-i.s iHTetngeiiHHlt. I hE:~sj t.ate t.o do i l: ..

But: i. F 1 hdvl'! l:.o do i.t:., T fr;!(~l, i . t :l.s on]y jn the bl'!St jntE:~rest of ti-H~ HOUSf~ For· our· c;.icle t:o do that. If I have no indjcation f r· o rn t h e o 1: h e r s l d e t h c~ y a r· e 1.uilJing now to bring thjs matter 1:. o a vote , I IAJO u l. d 1: he t' e Fore have to wjthdraw our permjssion, our dgrl:~l,~lnE:!nt, thr~t'(->. has to bo mutur:1l. agreement on both sides, to go o u t. s i cl r->. t h 1:~ nor· m d 1. r· u l c,~ s of t h r;! HousE:~. TherE:~ :is no doubt about i. t. We rH'f~ oui-.s-i.dH of 1· -.1-11:~ nor'llk1l. r· u J c-)!; of t. hE:~ H o u 5 l->. now . H :i s Honour· J:,:ul fi.nd noi~J~H:H'i,~. T ;"rn s u r· e , J n a n y of t h e a u t h o r i. ·t- i E:! s Uli'd: y o 11 c i:Hl go o n U·l'i. r· cl t' t'! "' cl 'i. n g o·f i'l bill. for two days on d mattE,-r· IAJhich l·l.-:1S nol ·. hi. ng 1-.o do 1~rii:h i·l'w IAJ(H'Ci:i 1'19 :in 'l. he b:iJ.l j i-se] r.

J 1ne .;m , t:l-11-0! wo r· d ·i. n y 'i. n 1.:1-n,~ b i. 1.1. :i '\ self, 1AJI1 P n you get to t h j r· d r·E:~adi.ng, hc1s to b:~ Vt~r·y niH't'ot~J and SFH~c:if)c. That :i~; not 1.uhat WE! are do"i.ng nOIJI. Wt~ ar·c~ i: her·~;:~for·:~ -i. n i:Hl

irregular fashion and I, 1-.hF.n'efore, say thi'lt i.f WE~ do not come to a vote now, we will wi.thdraw our permission to contjnue this irregular activity.


I 3379 June 21, 1988 VoJ XL

Is it agreed we will stop the clock?

MR. TULK : 1\Jo' ·t t 'l.!i not ·. r:~gr'Hl.;!d

Your· Honour. l~o stop r:.ht·:!

c:J.ocl<, TherE! :is no , .. , 9 t' :~ :=! rn t:~ n i ·. I: h ''' I: ~~~ ,,~ s l ... o p 1:: h :,~ c: J.o r: k .

r"lr·. ~')p:~i·1kl:!t' I l:o ;~ po ·i.n·l·. of cwd~H'.

r"ll~ . S P F A K F:: R : T o t h a -L p cd n t o F CH' cl E• In , L h E! h 0 n . Uw 1nmnber· r'c:w l-ogo .

MR. J. CARTER: To a point of privilege .

MR. TULK: r.Jlr. SpE:~dker·. ·i.t. ·i. s fi.V('! 0 1 Clocl<, Your Honour has to J.eave the Chair.

MR. BAIRD: He was on a po ·Lnt of pr"i.vilege .

MR. J. CARTER: I adjourn the debate because it is f'i.vr~ o 1 clock.

.r.1.1L... T U !:_iS : No, no, do not adjourn. You C rHll'l 0 1-. l'1 cl j OlH' n .

MR. SIMMONS: He had lhe fJoor.

MR. TULK: T f1o·1 cl L h 0 fl. o o r .

MR. SPFAI<FR: 0 r· d r~ r· • p l. e d s f~ !

f.\ c c: o r d ·i. n g L o S l:: a n el-i. n g 0 r· d C'! r· No . 7 , thE! House is rec:E!Ssed untiJ 8:00 o 1 clock toni.ght.

MR. S1MMONS: 7:00 o'clock .

MR. TULK: 7:00 o'clock, Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER : 7:00 o'clock this evening .

No. 60 R3379

AN HON. Mf.rJ!f!F.R: 8:00 o'clock .

MR. TULK: WeJ J, j i wag yes te r·day .

SOME HON. MEMRfRS : Oh, oh!

MR . TULK: What do you want?

SOME HON. MfMBERS : 8:00 o'~:lock.

MR. TULK:

7:00 o'clock

Ye s, bui- we have agreed to change th~ rul es. [s th~t all?

SOMf HON . MEMRERS: Oh, oh !

MR . TULK: All. r·i. I!J~\1: . Good wi. l~ h me.

AN HON . MfMBfR : Wh o:\ I . i : i. lllt~ •H'f.! tm~ r. o~n· i ng ba C !<?

MR. TUI K: ThA Speaker said 7 : 00 o'clock.

SOMF. HON. MF.MBERR: 8:00 o'clock.

MR . TULK: 7:00 o'clock, Mr. Speaker?


The House is recessed. It i.s normally recessed to 8:00 o'clock, but. hJe aro d~aJ.Ltl9 ul'ith a n hour ahead, go i 'L jg 7:00 o'clock.

I 3380 June 21, 1988 Vo] XL No . 60 R33 80

...

The House resumed at 7:00 p.m .

MR. SPEAKER: Order, plr:~ase!

MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the member for Fogo ,

MR. TUI.I<: We are continuing on third rE:~ad i,ng, cc,~ntcH'f.!cl on l~he b i.l.l thcli : IA.Je a1~e noiAJ dE!bating, Bill No. 14-, and an i.'1greE:'InE!nl a s lo IAJhi'll: wJ ll bt:~ called on the Order Pclper. I IAJC:'Inl.: l:o say lo Your Honour, and Your Honour, I think, is wel] iliAkl.re of this, whal·. I bel.i. (~ue l: hr:~

hon. gentleman was attempting to do IA.Jas to let the clock run to fiue o'clock and then hopefully moue a motion of adjournrnc-:~nt. As usual, he got caught out, because, Mr. Speaker, there has been no agreement.

We told the Government House Leader, the member for Grand Falls, that indE!ed if he wantE!d to call Orders 4- to 19, I believe it was, that he could do that, no problem, and he could call any order he IAJanted to, but we wanted to dc,~bc-.lte certain bills on thir·d reading. There was no agreement on tim e-:' or l:.op i c s or l: i rne li.mits or what orders would be called. I suggc.;!S t l·.:o the hon, genl:lc;!lnan that we do not need any agreement to d r:~ batE~ c." n y b i.ll. on t h .i. r d reading , There IJ.Jas no agreemen ·t thi.'lt the Speaker would not call anything else. Of course, there cannot be.

MR. DOYLf: But th e re cannel be wide-ranging debate.

MR. TLILI<: Well, no1AJ, if we tA.Jant: to debate what can be wide-r,anging or not,

L3 381 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

Your Honour has al1oiAJed, for the past number of sittings in this House dE! bate to be as wid E!-·ra ngi ng as we want to be.

MR. SIMMONS : Or as narrow as Morgan .

MR. TULK: Or 'i. nd e ed, as th e me mb er f or· Fortune - He rmitag e s uggest s , we c a n b (~ <'l s n a r· 1n o IAJ a s l: h c:• rn c,~ rn b c:~ I" f o r Bonauista South was.

MR. WELLS : ThE!rr,' IAJH S no a gr•et=Hne nl: l: ha l·: it would not b e wide-r a ng i ng .

Mf~. Tl.ILK : T I'H'! r e c a n no i.: be <Hl y a g r (;! E~ me t'l l o n what is allowed in dE!bate any1.vay. Your Honour decides t hat. and Your Honour has obviously decidE!d that in l:hi.s ce1se !).Jhat IJ.H:~ ar'E:' debating in this Legislature, namely the shutdown of the Newfoundland Railway, the selling-out of the Newfoundland Railt)Jay, for a mess of potage, is indeed in order under this legislation .

MR . SIMMONS : Good speaker! Good speakE!r!

MR. TULK: The han. gentleman - I suggest this to hirn _.. can stand in his place all he like s and try to stifle debate on this uery "i.mpor·tanl·. :i.ssue to NE=~wFoundland,

but it is only Your Honour, s 'i.l: ti ng "i. n thr~ Cha:i.r, and not Lhe owl s frorn the other side, who will ciE!Ci.dc~ tAJhr.d ·. Js J.egttLmal:e dE~bate

in this Legislature. What we saiAJ th ·i.s aFl:ernoon al.: about fiue minutes to fiue was thE! han. gentleman stand .in his plaCE! and try to block debate on this issue by the Opposition, try to stifle, try to muzzle the Opposi t.ion and try to gc-?.1: an adjounHnent deb!.'~te

so that tomorrow morning or

No. 60 (Evening) R3381

tomorrow afternoon - not tomorrow afternoon becausP. tomorrow afternoon is Private Members' Day -- bu i: on Tht.j rs day hf~ 1.1.ri.ll be c\ b l E! to walk into this House and call L1Jhal:evl':~r order he r~Jants t:o call. He has failed miserably. There has been no agreement on anything. This Legislature will perfor·rn and u.J.i.1l. do i l:s job c\nd the hon. gentleman can try all h~~ likes to stop us from doing that.


DR. COLLINS: -------Mr. SpE!a k eln I to this point of order.

MR. SPEAKER : To the point of order, the hon . the Minister of Health.

DR. COLLINS: I do not know whether the hon. Hous~~ Leader opposi.l.·.e tAJas gi.vc~!n a shot of soml':~thing, but hE! seems to bt~ in a d:i.ffer·en l: mood notAl L:han before. He seems to be getting off ·.i.nto d.l.J. sorl:.s of (~Xlraneous

areas. The point is: What was the arrangement orJer Lh.i.s somewhat ir·regular· activity that we are in now? If thE! han. House Leader says that this is normal third reading clebdte, he must have fallen on his hE!cld when he u.Jas a very small child. T h:i.s :is not a normal third reading debate. So the question is: What was agreed?

Now, unfortunately u.Je do not have Hansard, but my understanding from yesterday - and I am open to correction, I am not totally perfect, I admit that - was that. we would bend the rules a little bit by mutual consent on the third reading of this bill to have a dE! bate the\ l: u.Joulcl hav~) a definitive end, a definitive o b j e c t ion . We do no 1.: , i n t h :L s

L3382 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

House, have debates that go off into the tAJ:i.J.d b1tH~ yonder i-lnd have no point. We have debates for a purpose.

NotAl, T. am suggc,,sU.ng l:hat. afl:er two days of so--callE!d debatE•, ma-LnJ.y good points made by this side and sort of garbagey comments by the ol:her· sid~1, LhRt aFt.E!r two days of that, suJnE!ly we hr.lVe exhi'.lUsted l::he subjecl:. I ;•nn jus-t saying that, having donE:! that, ou1" agrE!C,~TTJ(~!nt has beE!n r:!xhausU=!d, and now is the time to pull us back -to tAJhC~!r'e we should b~~ on t:h:i.r·d reading of the bill.

Unfortunate-ly, as I said, tAlE:~ do not have Hansard to se~~ the exact wording. Perhaps Your Honour might wish to review Hansar·d just to see what was said yesterday when we started on this particular exer·ci.se.

The hon. lc,1r.td(->.r' opposite tAJ:i.shes to get up. He might want to make e1

John TurJ'H"'i"' type oF sp~=!ech, because I think he is the Newfoundland lype of John Turner.

SOME HON. MFMBERS : Oh! Oh!

DR. COLLINS : Well, he tAJas in thE·r·e ·For a short p<::~riod of timE!, thE!n hE! r'cHl awcty, then h<::~ corn~~s back and J.n a V~H'Y rusty fashion says that I arn now going to change the way that this House of Assembly oper·atE!S. I arn now going to make this House of AssE!mbly something to J.ook up to. Something to be a bc->.acon of light to all the rest of parliamenta1ny activities.


DR. COLLINS: Whereas in actual fact since he

No. 60 (EVE!ning) R3382

has been here he has rnade d

travesty of the rules that we operate by. There.;! has been many people in this House for many, many years, th~;:1y knotJJ how we operate, they know, even though we are on opposite sides of the House, .we haVE! undE!rstandings that we live by. But since the hon. LeadE!Y' of I: he Opposition has beE!n here he has made a travesty, he has upsE:1-t. the• way wE• normally optc'rate. He has dono -i.t ·i.n a most: ~;anctimonious tJJay, and not>J he undoub Ledly wan l:s to ge1·. up <:~nd

again fulm:inate in thE! sarnE! sort of way .

Th!':' po:in·l: is tJJE! now are not opera t"i.ng the way it has beNl Uildei"stood for Y!':!ars, that this Assemb1y operr.lt-.es, and this Assembly operated to the good of th~~ peopl~~ of th:i.s Prov:i.nce. W~'

have a netAJ person who has come in htH'e, sort of par·achul:c-:1d in after a period of time:1, doing whatever, and he now wants to make this House opE!ratE! his way and, of course, he is making a travesty of the whole BriU.sh Parliamentary tradition.

the here that

point

No other parliament based on British tradition would be tonight debating something has nothing to do tAdth this on the Order Paper .

And this only has corn~;:1 i:lbout, Your· Honour, because Your Honour, in his inimlLably patient way, has been manoeuvred by this new parachu 1-.ed, sr:~nct:i.mon · i ous infltH.HlCe in this House.

So unforLunatel.y t.~Je are :i.n l.:hts position, and WE! are quite willing to deal with it. Out, nevertheless, WE! are not going to go beyond lAJhat WCc1 agr~Hc!d. Wt:1 rnr.\dC-:' an agreement and we are willing to abid~1 by th~1 agr·<:1emen t, bu l.: I

L3383 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

suggest that we are now going beyond that agreement.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Indeed we are .

MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker, may I be heard on the point of order?

MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the Leader· of l: hE! Oppos"i.t"i.on .

MR. WELLS: Now, Mr . Speaker, aFter· that diatr i be oF tra s h


MR. WELLS: I am tempted to refrain from

saying what Twas going to say .

During the supper hour·, I IAJas consctous of thE! rnE!ITtber 1 s concern about government business, so I went around and I talked to lhe members to see how they could qutckly wind up this debate, and ask them who really felt that they wanted to speak on it, and I wanted to make sure that no member who wanted to have somE! input t n thi.s debate would be deprived of thE! opportunity. What I said is, 11 Do not anybody jus l: be rco!pc-:'ating what has already been said, and if you can sa.y IAJha'i". you hau<~ ·to say in five minutes, that is enough . Do not run out the clock on a time limit. 11 And our members have agreed to do thctt.

Now, Mr. Speaker, that is what we 'i.ntended to do. 13ut: th<:1n tl.le come back in the House and w~~ ge!t that diatribe of tnsults and nonsense from the Minister· of HeaJ.th, LIJho should know better.

It :i.s l·.:ernpting 1-:.o say no, tJJe Llr:i.ll


do whatever the rules permit us to do .

But, Mr. Speaker, we place the order of business of this House firs l: i'lncl I.U8 pl.<.'~ co l:he .ini:eros 1: of the people of this Province f i. r s 1~. . A n d t h (~ r (~ a r e f o 1.1 r o r f "i tH:!

membtH's on this sidt~ of th(c~ Houst~ who have something further l:o say.

MR . WARR~N :

You place yours e lf first with your where is my money?


MR. WELLS : M1~. SpeakE!r, anything said have a gaggle constantly.

MR. SPEAKER:

we will never get if wee~ art~ going to of noise like this

Order, please! Order, please!

MR. WELLS: Mr . Speaker, I would like to make the po'"i.ni:. to Fac .i.l.-i.tf.'lt.P. l:l'w order of business of the House. There C~.rC:! four or five olher· rnernbers of thjs House who have something they wani: to St~Y on thts matter. They are operating totally and completely withi.n th e r11les oF the House. There has been no agreement between the government side and this side that we would or would no l: spc,~ak about. iHJY particular thing, · 1.11e are just operating strictly within the rules of the House . I 1.11ould have anticipated that IAiithout that kind of gaggle of noise and nonsense and interventions corning from the other side every time anybody tries to speak, Mr. Speaker, we could get through this fairly quickly. I am satisfied that: the membE!rS on this sidE! of the HouSE! lAJho want: to havcc~ so1m~ input tnto this should have an opportunity to

L33 84 June 2L, 1988 Vol XI ..

do so. But l: h(~y insist on their right to do so and I arn going to s 1.1 p port l: hem j_ n :i. t , M r . S p e r.t k e r .

MR. SPEAKER : Ordrc~r, pl.C:~i~se!

T Rrn prf~par'E!d t:o r·ul.r~ on tht:~t: matter nouJ. I would like to dralAJ han. rnE~mber !> 1 at l·.: pni".'i.on l:o lAJhat·. I said on a number of oc casion s yes h=!rday. lh -L r·d read -L ng, a nd this is in BE! a u c hesn E!, Pag E! 2 2 1., S t' c 1: -L o n 7 l 2 ( S ) : 11 T h i r d R e a d .L n g The purpose of thE! third r' E!adj n ~J is to review the bill in it s f Lna l form after the shaping it ha s r·eceive:~d in i t:s earl. i.E!r s t:ages. 11

Obviously, that is not what we are doing at the present time.

Now, why was it alloWE!d to get to this stage? I think it wa s allowed, and T. allotAJed it., to get to this stage because there seernE:~ d to be an understanding between eRch side of the House.

1 ht:we only had a chance of skimming through Hansard in the J.ast: fJ.ve m:i. nlt1:e s becausE• it wa s not available earlier, but I would l. ·i. k e to point i:. h -.L s o 11 t c 1 e i.'l r l y , a s I think it should be . It JAJas t h E! bon. I~. hE:~ Gover· nme n 1: who said: 11 You SE!e,

House L t~ad e r Mr. SpE!ab:!r!

Do you s ee what: attempting to do? ath~mpLi.ng to u s e t:h:is biJ.l, or whatever other can f·ind, to get. into a the railway agreE•mt~nt. 11

l::hE•y i:H' e ThE:~Y <:H'e parb.cu1ar biLl thE!Y ci E!bate on

I quite agree with that. It is obvious that we are in a debate on the railway agreement .

And he carries on: 11 I have said there are going to be lots of opportunities for that. I arn going to be calling the budget debate, which is wide open. If

No. 60 ( ElJening) R3384

the han. members want under Ordc,~r 3, I said do that. No problem. 11

to l:hey

do it could

BecausE:! of that statement I have allowed this matter to get beyond the confines of the very narrow field that it should. At the present time I have looke:~d up the list of mE!mbers who have spoken. There are four members who have spoken on thE! government sidt" and thr'e(,~ on -thE• Oppos-i.t :ion sidE!. QuitE! frankly, I think it would not be fair to han members on either side, and ·the third party ce:~rbri.nly h<'IS not. b~H~n r('!Cogn·Lze.d so far to speak. I certainly tAJould nol:. bE! comfor+:abl.r,~ i.f there was a restriction made on hon. mc'!lTlbc,~rs l.t.J~wn :i. L hcH~ not beE>r1 rn<'ldl'! on han. mr::~mbers up to this time, and seven haue already spok0n.

SOME HON. MEMOERS: Hear, hear'!

MR. SPEAKER: What hon . members Wi.'lnt to do i.s their affair, and if they would like l~ o carne to some c.'lgreement dS

to how t..ue can rE!SOlve that, that is fine. I do not think I am going to resolve it other than on that basis at the present time.


MR. MORGAN: A new point of order, Mr. Speaker .

rJIR. SPEAKER: A point of order, the hon . the member for BonalJ'i.sta South.

MR. MORGAN : Mr. Speaker, I think this is a very serious decisi.on to make From the Chair', because it was by le:~ave

of l:he Ho1tse ··

MR. TULK :

L3385 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

No, it was not.

MR. MORGAN: - and by agreement between the two sides of the House, Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS : No! No!

MR. MORGAN: - thai:. lAIB lAJOUJ.d hav(:! d

wide-ranging debate on Bill 14, 11 An Act~ To Arnencl And Consol.-:idat.e The Law Relating To The Use An d OpE.~ri::tl~ion Of Vc,~h'i.cl.E!S.'' fhe Chai.l"

agreed, bE!CaUSE! it lAJi'lS agl''E'E•d bet. t..uE~r,'n the l:l~Jo m<:1jor pi'lr'l".:ies :in the House, that that would be a lAJi.dr:!·-·r'an•J ·i.ng dc:!betl:.n to ('>l'ldbl.e the Opposition to bring fortAJat~d theoi.r' views on a spec ·i fic topic, ~he

Railway Agreement. We have had debate since yesterday on that topic. Now, M1~. Spt:!akr:~r, thE:' agreement is brokc:!n fr' orn our side. I think we have had adequate debate on this very topic and we should get back to the prec is e bill "itself, and debate not be wiciE!-open and l"cH1ging, but confined to the narrow topic of the bill, and ciE~bate third rE!ad:ing of that bill, because tAJe · have had adequate discussion and dE!batE! on the tiJide --ranging topic of the Railway Agr'eernent. If lAJe are going to agre:~e to do this on this bill here now, Mr. Speaker, it lnave:~s :it open to bE! clon1=! on any bill before the House, and that i s a violation of the rules of the House. The point is, Mr'. SpeakE!r, l".:he I.E~adr~r of l:·.h('! Opposil:.ion j , s

wr·ong in saying WE! arE! opE!I"ating wi.l:hi.n the rul.e~; of l:hE~ House because we are not. We are in an exception ~o the rules of the House based on two agreements . Mr'. SpE~akcr, i.n your ruLLng yesterday yotJ made it quite c1E!ar' that 11: was a speclal arrangement, a special agl~r:~eTTlE!nt. And if this s.i.de of l:.he llot.tse sdys that


agreemc-?.nt is no longer intact, the Leader of the Opposition has no right l:o SclY he L\Jants to decide how many members on his side want to s peak Ln th-Ls debate . :le has no right to do that, none whatsoever. So, Mr. Speaker, my point is that IAH~ should be back to t.hE:1 bU.J J.l~self . The:! clYi"f~c~menl ~ t'o have wide-ranging debate on the r·a i. J.way i s no J.onger· Jnl·.dct r'lnd, ther'r::1forc,1 IAJE! get. back to thE:' narTOIAJ 1-.:opJ c of I: he b-.i.lJ J. l:: s e J. F.

MR. WELLS: Mr . Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Leader of the Opposition .

MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker, I have only this to say: Your Honour has accurately stated the situation as jt developed: That is my recollection of it. There was no specific agrer::1ment. I told Your Honour that there are four or five other· rnE:1rnbe:1rs on t.his sid!':1 of t.he House who wanted to speak, and there is no i.ntenU.on l~. o drag it out. If we are finished in an hour, good. T.f ii: takes ttni.:i.l. 10:00 o'clock, L\Jell, that is F i n e . R u i.: t h ~~ r r~ i. ~; no in i·. E~ n L ·i. on t.llhatsoeV(:'r to drag it out. There Clre four or F J tJE~ o thc:•r mf>.lltbE!r's !AJho have a fetAJ things to say and thc:~y should be i:~lJ.otAJC,H:I 'l::h~~ t:·.i . tnr~ lo speak.

DR. COLLINS: Mr . Speaker·.

MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, the han. the Minister of Health.

DR. COLLINS : Just on that clar·i fication .

point of order, for If I understand

the han. the Leader of the

L3 3B6 June :n, 1988 Vol XL

Opposition rightly - I think he is more or less admitting that he has put Your l·lonottr' -i.n a most invidious situation by bringing us l:. o l: h-i.~; part-i.cular point-· he is indicating t.hat this evening's d (~ b a t e tAd J. l. t: r~ nn i. n <:·\ U! Ud. s part:icuJ.ar· proCE!E!ding and that we wiJl com0 to same sort of resolution. The usual resolution i n 1: h :i s H o u s r~ L h P h o n . l: he Leader of l:hE! Opposition rrli'lY no l: 1.1 n d P r· ~; L .:-~ n d +: h d 1'. , h f'! cl o C! ~; no 1:. s e ern to know much dbout. pi'lrliamentary proct:1dure the usu;"'l IAJay l.lle terminatE! a proCE!dUr E! in this House,~ i. ~> to br·i.ng i'l mal:. tr;:!r' t.o a vote.

Now rn y u n d c-?. r· s tan d 'i. n g From t.ll h a t. UH"' han. the Leader of t.hE! Opposition seems t.o indicc.'lte, t.o t.he extent that he indicates anything because he usually says one thing and then five minutes later he says another thing, bul: to the extent that he says anythj ng that one can dE:'cidE:' what h(:1 says, hc1 ·.i.s saying Utat. he has no wish to drag out this particular proceeding unduly, which would seem to me to indicate t:hal when members opposite and members on this side, bE~cause members on th:i.s !.d.d8 hi.'tVe cls much ~ight and as much expertise to rna k e I~ he-i. i" poi n l: s, that~ IAJhc' n that.: has been done there will be a vote I·.H k C:'n.

1\JOIJ.J :if l: ho hon. l .. r~dclor· of t:hr:• Opposition wishes to go a bit beyond 10 : 00 o'clock, we havC:' no problem with that . We LIJi11 stop the clock, if need be, and go beyond 10:00 o'clock. But he is strongly indicating, and it is very difficult to understand the han. Leader opposite because he is so much over the shot, if I understand him r·ight, as saying he does not wish to drag out this unduly, we will come to a definitive end, and in this

1\Jo. 60 (E1Je:1ning) R3386

particular sitting of the House we tAJi.ll. f-i.ni.sh this by halJi.ng a vote. Now that is my und~~rs t.andi.ng.

MR. WELLS: Mr . Speakr:~r.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition .

MR. WELLS: I said no such thing, and whE!n you

r~:!ad Hansard you tJJill. see it.

This is the hon. member 1 s distortion. When things do not go

his way, he likE!S to distort. Now

here it is simply.


DR. COLLINS: What do you want?

MR. WELLS: Listen and you will hear. Listen to it! Sl·:.op the noise <'lnd you

wi 11 h~~ar·.



MR. WELLS: HotJJ Ci'ln anybody h~~ar anything, Mr. Speaker, with mouths going like that?


MR. SPfAKER: Order, pl.ei'\SE!!

MR. WELI..S: M r· . s p-E!ak e r , it i s as this: Ther~~ i'IY'e fo1tr' mE!mbers on this sidE:~ of IAJho · st:i.l.l hclVC'! sornci::hing

L3387 June 21, 1988

simple as or· five

Lhe HouSE! to sc1y on

Vol XL

this matter and they want an opportunity to say it. Hon. members opposite appear to want to vo b:~ iuunE:~cLi.R t.e l y, so I presume

none of them u.Ja nt to s pE!a k . They

want to vote right now, so I assume nobody OUE!r thE!rE:~ wants to speak.

DR . COLLINS: Do not d'i s tort. WE! speak. Do not distort . to speak.

MR . WELLS : Well, then, you do not vote now.


MR. WELLS :

t)Ja n t We

to u.Jant

want to

All I arn saying, Mr. !dmply th·i.s: · There

Speaker, <:lt~e four

is or

five -

DR. COLLINS: WE:~ can vote after each sidE! spE!aks .

MR. WELLS : The ministE!l~ wi) 1 nE!ver hE!ar what I a1n say-ing i.f hE' i.s speaking

himself at the same time.

DR. COLLINS: It is possible to have a vote aft.r:~r r:~ach side sp~~aks. You ITtay

not bE! aware of that, but it is possible in this Housl=! to haur:>. a vote after each sjde has its say.

MR . WELLS: Mr . Speai<E!r', thr:~ sirnpl~~ s t.atHrrtE!nt. is there are four or· fj ve rnE!rnbers

on t h t ~; s t de of the H o us~~ tJJ h o tJJa n t to speak. Now, if half or more of th:i:s E!lJenJng is tc.~ken up by speakers from the othE:~r sidE!, I

hav~~ no doubt tAJha'LsoelH~Y' that tJJe will not finish before ten o 1 cJ.ock. T halJE! no doubt. l:.h<~ l:. IAJE! will not finish before ten o 1 clock.

No . 60 (Evening) R3387

DR. COLLINS : Is it your idea of pr·ocedure that only one side of the House speaks?

MR . WELLS : No. That is what the minister would like to hclve.

MR . SPEAKER : Order, please!

Ml~ . WF.:L.I _S : A11 I arn sayJng. Ml". Speaker, "is Fo t.lr or F-Lue'! rnc~rnbE!r' s on th ·i.~; side want to speak. If eueryone on e a c h s i d c~ s p e d k s , 1 h d 1; E! no doubt they will not finish before ten o 1 clock. But that i.s okay by lfiC:~. I haue no pr'oblern with that. We can finish tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker, some rnay need ten minutes, some may need fiue minutes, some may n(~~ed twenty-fiue minutes, whateuer is appropriate, but there is no intention to dr;:uolJ it out. We are doing simply what is necessary to handle this mattC:~r rE!Sponsibly. It is as simple as that.

SOMf. HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hE!ar!

MR. SPEAKER: l'he han. the Minister of Health .

DR. COl. LINS: T do hauc~~ 1-.:o say one,~ fur' l·:hE!r IJJorcl because we must haue an understanding. Whal: Uw hon. leader said just nouJ was totally adu e rse to what he sa i d preuiously. which I understand be:~caus0. he does it r.tll Hw t:i.me. What he is now saying - please correct me if I am wrong - is that the Opposition want the right to speak on this motion and as long a.s no one s pea k s on t hi s s i d e he .is IJJilling to bring i 1: to a uo Le. But if anyone from this side brings it to a uote -

L3388 June 21. 1988 Vol XL

MR. WELLS : No, no!

DR. COLLINS: T am just quoting what yo u said . If anyone on this side wishes to speak you will want it to carry on until tomorrow.

MR. WELLS : That is IAJrong.

DR. COLLINS: J: •'lin j I I :; 1: Th a t i s yo 11r s0lF you s a i d, Sd y .

q11o L: i. ng 1.11h<.,l i: you sd·'i. d . what y ou sai d . You

rna y no \: un cl e r' s ·tand what but t hi s i s wh at y o u di d

1\Jot.~J, Mr·. SpeakE!r, I IAJOuld like->. to make our position quite clear . We are IAlilJ.ing to car-ry on 1.1Ji t.h debate in this House, spE!aking onE! side fr·om the othC:H'. At the:~ E!nd of the desire of members to speak, we are willing to bring it this euening to a vote .

MR. MORGAN: This euening . Th a t i s rea so na ble .

DR. COLLINS: Now. we are will i ng to s top the clock for that purpose if necE:~~>SrH'Y · Now, 'iF thE~ hon. mE:~mber opposite wishE:~s to ~J'aue onJy on<:' - s 'i. d e d c orntnE!n \': i .n thi s House and thE!n bring it to a uote, i :. hi'll: · i . ~; so Fr:~r Ot,Ji: vf par-liamentary proct:~dure thcd: I CCHl

har•clly COfiiiTIOI1l: bf~ CrHISB ·i.L ·is SO

laughable. I only put it dot.~m to the hon . member· bc;d.n(:l so far a1.1Jay from parliamentary procedur·e he does not understclnd IJJhat is going on in par-liamentary procedure. So can we haue thRt clear? If the debate is to continue there wi 11 be someone from that s:ide, someone from this side, and then. when no further members rise, we will haue a uote. That is normal, common or garden type, throughout the world,


»-

British type of par l·i. amen t:i:H'IJ

procedure.

the Leader of tl1e The han. Opposil-::i.on that, but the tJ.Jo r 1. d way.

mi:\y not t1ndr:~rs t·.i'lnd

I am afraid the rest of ciOE!S under~;t:ancl :i.t. that

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. 'the u~ader of the Opposition .

MR . WELLS : Mr. SpeakE!r, hE! doE~s little to induce cl reasonable arrangement at all. His insults are offensive, in fact. Mr. Speaker, it is

simple: There are four or five peopl(~ on this s-Lcl(->. oF the HousE:~

tAJ h o want to s peak . They wi 11 cont:i.ni.IC:! to sp(~ak unt::i.l. th(:'Y hr:1Ue been heard, and that is it. If it t s n i n C'! o 1 c l. o c k , t h a 1:. i. s o k R y , a n d then we tJ.Jill bring it 'l:o a vote. If i. t: "i. s ten o 1 c 1 o c k , Uw n 1,\Je w:i. J. J. bring it to a vote. If jt t.ornorr·otAJ, "l:.h(~n t1.Je tAJ"i.lJ. br·:i.ng i. t: to a vote.

SOME HON. MFMRFRS : HE:H'lr, hedr!

MR. WELLS : A n d they· can speak or not,

do what they like, dS they see fit.

MR. J. CARTER: ------·--To that point of order, Ml" . Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, the hon . the member for St . John's North.

MR. J. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, I have a suggestion that might rE:~sol.vE:~ t'll.l l:his, and it has been tried before . It tAJill require lr::1r:we oF thE:~ House, and I tJ.Jould certainly be prepared to g i. lJ (~ l o a lJ e . T h a '1". i. !> i. f '~ lJ c,~ r· y o n e were to speak at once, then we

L3389 June:~ 21, 1.938 Vol XI .

COII].d gt=:d: ·i.l: over· 14J.ith. II:

make it somewhat arduous llr:'lnsard to unscr·arnbl<:', but I certainly be prepared to ledlH~.

Ml~. TULK : Mr. Speaker.

MR . SPEAKER : The han. the member for Fogo.

MR . TULK:

would for

would give

I think Your Honour h~s heard enough, to be quite frank with you .

MR. SPEAKER: Order, pledse!

I takE~ the hon. member at his wor·d. I have heard enough.

MR. TULK: Yes, and I think i.t i.s time to get on with the debate, Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER: T hdlJe nol··.h·i. nl.:J fut"i.:hel" l·.: o add l:hat I have not said bE~for·e. Then~ :is not,:-~ po:i.nt of or·clf~r·. I Lhouqht that we werE:~ possibly getting l::o some ttndc,~rstcu1d:ing, and tAle could

possibly curtail thE! dE:~batE! or o the rtJ.li. s E:~ . T h ctl: j_ s pur €?.1 y up to

the han. members, not up to me.

The J.ast spE!aker was the han. thE! Jn(,Hnber For l.aPo:i.l.E:~. I tMi.ll recogniZE! the hon. thE! rnE•rnbE!r fol"

Waterford - Kenmount .

SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!i3.r, hr::1i:l.r!

MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, it is a real pleasure, finally, to be able to speak to thi.s i.ssue, given the

fact that like so many other -

MR. MORGAN: 0 n a p o ·i. n t of o I" c:l f:~ r , M I" . S p E! a k e r· .

No. 60 ( ElJc,~nJng) R3389

MR. SPEAKER: A point of or·der, the hen. the member for Bonavista South.

MR. MORGAN: A point of order is, it :i.s a rnost serious one because:~ I think baSE!d on tho stat.e:Hn~Hlts rnade by HH~ Leader of thE! Opposition that his speaker frorn hi.s side wi.l.J. speak in de~~ bate:~ on the condition and I am not go-Lng to repoRt somc'!'l:.h-Lng al1neady sa:ld. So :if that is the c a s c~ , M t' . S p r~ d I< e r· , I>~H~ h i'\l.J ~:! 1·. o '" J J. a g 1n e E:~ that IAJ hat ~~ E! :i s n OLI.J s a y i n g t.o u~; i .n l·: hi.~; a<.:Jr'E:'l~rnenl .: IAJe ha1Je, on both sides of the House, is +.:hal: any speBknr ~; Fr·om hi.s s-Ldr:! must not be repeating what has <'llready S<:'l'i.d i.n d e:,bal:e <:Uld not bP. wasting the time of the House.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, p]ease!

There -is no point of order . not aware of any agreement.

I arn

The hon. the mE!rnber for Waterford - I(E:>rlmount.

MR. GULI..AGE: Mr. Speaker, I intended to stick as much as possible as I can to the bill. And to preface my remar·ks I>~Jhich !>~Jhnt I I>~J<-l.S going to say is that, as so. many others in t 11 e H o 1.1 s e h <'I v e s "' i. d , I h a v E~ '" r C'! '" l. connE:~ctjon wi.t.h the railt.uay giuen

·l:hE~ fact th<:·l'l.: my f,:-ll:hE:~r· spenl: forty years with CN here in the citY. And the fact that we now havr:~ an aglnE'E'!mont: t.uhich changE!S t he ri'li.lway certi'linJ.y as I hauo known it down through the years, a r a i.lt.ud y IAJ ~l'i. c h i. n t h ~~ C'i. 1: y , i. n particular, has shown a dE!mise:~ over the yc~~ar·s fr·orn r.t u~~ry viabl.r~! situation of some 1,500 to 2,000 people down to 350 workers leFt now in St. John 1 s.

Mr. Speaker, the point was raised

L3390 June 21, 19B8 Vol XL

that we had stated our position, I thought our position was rather clear throughout in that we mt'oli.ntain that a four· Jane hightAJay a eros s the Province would bE:! good c om p ~~ n s a t.i on . if you 1 i. k e , For· t he fact that LI.Je wE:'rE! losing thE! rr.til.way, <:u:lcLing 1-.tAJO l.anr:~s and losing the railway tracks seems to be c->.qtli. l:ablE>. <'lgr'EH~ ment. But IAJB hauE:~ not attainE!d that goal. We hdiJE! Fo11r· lanns -Ln l:hc-=o rnaj or· ar·~=!as WhE:H'e traffic dE~E·ms :i.t l1E:'CE•S SiH' y, b II l·. I.J..J('.' d 0 1'1 0 i:. h cl I) e f 0 II Y' J i~ 1'1 E! S

across the Pl"OuincE!. So ai"E! IAJE',

·i. n fa c -1:, rep l i'l c-i. n g t: he r· r:d.l1Ak1 y? A railway which was guaranteed to us by l:er·m s of un·i.on <Hld no1"' t.o~l('! f:.i. ncl that IAH~ ar'E! gE:'tting lE:!SS thcHl thE! t E~ r· rn s o f u n -L o n lJ.ri. 1:. h ··1 E! s ~~ t h a n a four lane highway as we all thought. 1.uould be~ thE! ·Final agre'ement.

The other poj nt WE:~ alto~Ji'.lY s said LI.Je stood. for· was UH~ rnaint.E!nance agreeme!nt and we do not haVE! that in place. When I spoke on t:he estimates earlier on it was one of thE:~ po·ints I rnadE! thr.:lt: if a railway agreement was put in place that on~~ of the condi.bons of it should be a maintenance agrE!EHn~~nt for the highways and for the extra demands on those highways given the movement of rail traFfic to the highway and the addition of hAlO rno r e l.r.~ n e ~> . N OIAJ IAJ~~ Find ourselves in a situation L~JhE!re lo~.Je d i" (~' 1'1 0 1.: 0 1'1 l . y 1'1 01.\J IAH~' f .i. l'l d CHI r• S e l V l:' S in a situation, tAJhE!rE! not only do we h~ue some $~00 mi.l.li.on be i ng paid out ouE:!In a fiftE!E'rl yE~ar pc~~r:i.od, b11l: I>~J~~ do not 11<:-we any agreement at all for maintenanCE!. The gou(~~rnmen'r: tr·i.Ps l:o iH'que that maintenance agreements are not nec:{~SScH'Y bl~~ca11se hJghways ar'E:' a provincial responsibility. Sur{:'l.y, they ar·e our responsibility normall.y, but when you thi.ni< of the fact. thai: t.ue c:u·e changing a mode of traffic from


rail to roads and that should be a continuation of a Terms of Uni.on agr·eement and, indeed, probably Forth coming a cons ti hli:iona 1.

agreement, then surely it should

be p 11 1: i. n p 1 ace 1: h cd: i: h ~ hi. g hwa y

should be maintaine~ as a Fo11r ·l.di'W hi.ght~.Jay, j 11s t <'IS "i.n fac 1··.

it was agreed that the railway would be matntdined with no limitation in time.

M1~. Spl:'akE!r', I note the legi.~l

opinion states there is no requirement to maintain rail service in Newfoundland. They question whether or not it is obligated to bear the cost of r· e p 1 a c i n g thE! r a i 1 s e r vi c e wi t h an alter·nat:i.ve, such clS an c-.ldE:'quab~

road transportation system.

I would argue, Mr. Speaker, the Terms of Union very clearly

stated, since we are an islAnd, with wa te r separating us from the Mcli. nlanrf, t·.ho Terms oF Union weni: to grea ·t pains to ensure the continu~tion of a ~rans -Canada comn1uni cat io n ar1d t.rans portation s ys l: t~m IJ.It)ul.d be ma"Lnl: ainr::~d. i.n

spite of having water in between. That u1as gucH'f.Hl teed ·Ln t h0 Ter·ms of Union.

HclV·ing rE>.cei.vecl thcd: guclr'anl:t~e. T

would content that a legal opinion, and we rlo not have a

legal opinion stated hEH'<~. at least it 'is not giVE!n as a lPgal opinion per s e I would surely say

that if your are guaranteeing a continuation of a trans-Canada communications transportation network is indeed not to be i mpeded by water, then rail is a continuation of that, and has been traditionally. If you remove the rail, you say now this is going to be a road connection, that roarl

connection whethE!r llAJO lanes or four sho1.1l.d cont:.i.nue to b~'!

accepted as one of the Terms of

L3391. J11nt~ 2.1. 1 1.9BI1 \Jo l . X'-

Union.

SOME HON. MEMRERS: II ear, h~~ar·!

Ml~. GUI_LAGE : I would think any legal opinion IAIOIIl.cl COI'll'lf~Ci.: l:ht'! l-.iJ.JO and say l::he

opinion that there should be a

connection mAintained by way of

ferry traffic would surely link inlo a legal opinion maintaining the removal of rail would mean the o b 1. :i gat i. on on r· a .i.l IAJO 111 d bE! rno v 1:! d

to the highway. We do not see any opinion to the contrary in anything WE! have received on this side. That would naturally connect, Min. SpE!aker, to thE! maintenance of the highway.

It is unbE!lievablE! to think that we have $400 million put in place,

not $800 mi 11 ion, as we hE!ar, $4-00

rni.ll.ion o.f nE~IJJ rnon(,?Y and I'H>.IJ.J

agreements, and absoJ.utely nothing for Jn;:dntenanc:e. I t blo1~1s the mind to t hink that down the road f ·i. f ·l·. een year·;, fro 1n no1JJ I and indeed , th roughou t that fifteen Y Hcl r per·i.od •'I$ IAJt~ i. ndc-?. ed P\.lt: tiH~ se

miJ. lions in place, we are going to

h.:lve i:o main I': a in four lanes of

highway throughout this Province ~Ali. t h a b so J. 11 t 01. y no he l. p f r· om the

federal government.

Mr . Speaker, this morn i ng in

Question Period I mentioned the railway infrastructur e. Throughout the Provinc e we have not only infrastructure such as track, switches and signals, buildings and bridg ~s and whatever

a lot of which, naturally, will have to be r e moved and, I uJould think, relocated wherever possi.ble, but w<,~ have r·ai1way land and buildings located within the rnun:lci.pdl. boundar·i.c,'s in rnany, I'J1i.H1Y

caSE!S or nE:'ar municipal boundaries 11.1 h ·i. c h c a n b ('' u s ~~ cl b y t h H s E! c :i t. -.i u s

and towns to help replace the

No. 60 ( r:: lJ l:! n 'i. n g ) R3391

economic base they have losing the railway. absolutely no mention how thls is going to be

lost by

the Province.

We see at all of treated by

Mr. Speaker, I can assure you there are cities - I can speak for one, St. John 1 s - and other and councillors I have,~ spokc,1n to IAJho ar'E:' ver·y, very concerned about being able to hdve these lands transfer'I"E:1d dir·ectly t:o them, so thE~Y can hC:1l.p dPc'i.dE:1 Lhc~i. r· f11+:11r'!::~, having lost a major economic basE~ w·i.th the loss of l:he rcd..li~J<:·lY. Without the J ands, and 1.uithout thE:1 b u 'i. l. rl -i. n g ~; b e i. n g ~~ r· r:J. n s f e r· r· e c:l ~~ o thE:1m ... I do not mean t1"ansfE:1rrE:1d by IAJi.'IY o·F ~"' tH:1ry J.ong, dr·aiAJn 0111: leg<:.~l procedurl;~ 1.uhere :it gE!tS t r a n s f e r-r- ~::1 d 1: o t. h c,1 P r o tri. n c e f 'i. r ~; t at a cost of mil l ions of dollars Cl n d t·. h EHl , · e tJ e n t u all y , s om e o f ·i.t. , depending on the lAJhim of the governmen l:, ge l:s tr·ansferrE.~d to whatever comrnu ni tiE~ s they see fit, I mean a d ·i.rc,lct tr·ansfE:H' to l:he communities which are losing the railway right now.

We all know which ones they are, the four or five major communities from Port. aux Basques to St. John's which are adversely affected most by the,1 loss of the· railway, the loss of lands and bui.lc:J-i.ngs, thE:! loss of t:i'lE:~ economic base, and the loss of t::HnploymE~nt for theoi.r pE!Opl.E!.

I subrni.l.:, Mr. Province should

Spt::h'lkE:H' I

enter C\1A)i'\ IJ c'l ~; r· e,1 n P go 1~. i. a i·_ "i. on s r· .i. g h t

as t.hes~~ lands and buildings prope,~ri ·.te!;

millions. concerned. These worth hundreds of

the into far are are If

you IAJant:. to ju~;t :i. sol.ate i:h(,~ r·a.U. bed which, of courSE!, is valuable i. n i. t. s e l. f , i:\rl d d ~~ a 1 IAri. t. h i: h E:' properties throughout this Pro tJ i. n c e , I t.uo 11 J d s 11 g g c~ s L t h c,, r e are hundreds of millions of

L3392 JurH:1 21, 19BB Vol XL

dollars worth of property in land and bui l.dings IAJhich should be properly transferrE!d in a lot of cases, not .in ali cases, but in a 1 o t of cas e s , to thE! c o mm u n i U . E! s , the towns, and the cities adverSE!ly affected and wil] bE! dr·<:lrnal::ici:J.ll.y af'fecter.f econorn:LcaJ.ly if these properti.es and lands ar'e not transferred to them.

r"l r . S p E~ <:'1 k o. r· , r e,~ 1·: 1 1 r· n ·'i. n g o n c r:~ a q a .i n to the point of mainta in ing the r' r:d liAJ a y , T lA I o 11l. cl J. i k C:'! t o j u s i: quote fr-orn a pet"son !Aiho IAJa~:; -i. n 1; o ltH~ d r:~ i:lt' l. ·i. E! r· o n a n d i s n tHAI ·_i n his E:~:i.ghtiE!S. I am r'E!ferr'ing r:o M r· . P :i. c k E:lr' s g i. l. l. .

Th~::~ Lhr-c~e po·inl-.s he TnC"1de IAH:!J"e'!: Number one, keep the railway op(-?.rai"ing whi.l.1.:1 the highliJay i.s being upgradE:ld. He did not rnNln thi.'li: be,~ optln -e ndE.~d. but CE:'rtainly t.hE:1 .Sullivan Report rE!COTTliTIE!ndE!d a f -L v e ... y E:1 1:1 r p E:H' i o d · d u r· i n g Ill h i c h t. h E! railway would not close down until. UH~ highi~Jay, at lr:>.as t ln tc:!r·rns oF being upgraded and expandE!d to a four· -lane sysbnn, i:'.lS is be.:i.ng recommended now - hopefully the government would have gone further, but certainly as we s BE! the d E:1 a l. -L n pl. a c €~ r· i g h t now - at least five years be a t:imP frame whe-?.r€~by the,~ r·ai.l1.uay IAIOUl.d not close until five ye•ars of construction hNd gone on and we would see a good portion of the rr·r:ll'lS --Canadr.·l (o!XpdncJE:!c:l to four lanes . We do not have thctt~ in pl.dce. Tt i_~; dn open-·endr:!d situation now. If we read it correctly, jeptember 1 the ·railway's mandate e.;!nds and we ~;l:.ar·l:. consl.-.r'11ct5.on on the expanding the Trans-Canada to four l.arH:1S Jn g i.t)(:!n pdrts of the Province .

The other point Mr. Pickersgill rnad(>. IAli.'IS thdt f011r' Janes should be put in place acr-oss thE! Pr·ovinCE!

No. 60 (Even-ing) R3392

and maintenance and snow removal be an o b Li. g a ·J: ·L o n of t: h c~~ f e chH' d l.

government and, finally, that

p l" E! f ~~ r (:Hl U:~ f 0 r• hi. 9 hLIJi'l y 1.110 r' !< 1))0 Ill d

go to railway workers.

Sl.ll"E~ lAIC-'. see a gJ"andiosE:~ promist~d

p d c k i'l g e:~ b e ·.L n g p r o p o ~; e d b y , .. _ h · i. :;

agi"PE~rnPI'I"L IAJhel"eby !"ail wor·kers al"e

p r· o 1r1 ~i . s E~ d 1: o b e l. o o k t~ d d F 1: e r· . ~'lt!

have <-.llrE:'ady hea1"d thE:~ comments of

s oro 1::! o F o 11 r' 1 1 n i. o n l. E! ;:~ d or· s s ''' y ::i. n g

l:h<~'Y hopE~d that that IAJil]. bE~ SO.

l1tll:. hope~~ ·i.s not ell.!AidYS Lh<>. besl-.

tAJay of doing things.

WE:~ would li.ke to see rnor·e of an

agr·eement put in place whE!rE•by it

is guaranteed ln thP agreement

the s e p eo p l e wi 11 bE! 1 o o k e d aft e r

and that., in fact., if htghtJJdY

work, as tAJe knouJ, is going to be

started relatively soon, workers

would bE:~ giVE!n somE! preference as

far· as work in g on the h :i g htAJa y s if ,

in fact, they· cannot be placed in

rdilway jobs. That sort of an

agJ"(:H:!rnent j s certainly not in

pl.dC('! d$ Wt~ S<:'C:~ '"i.l: rJ()!)J.

Mr. SFH~ak~:!r', IAII.-:~ only sc~l:~ $S

rnillion bej ng allocated in the

a g r· e ern c~~ n I: , $1J rn :i.ll-i. o n 1.11 h J c h T

assume IAJill bE:~ mostly spent on

l. e 9 r:'\1. f C:'E:~ s I Ct s T r H iHI i t I b II t n ()

agreement whatsoever on the trc1nsfc;!r' oF 1.:ln,·ls and pr·oper·l.: i.E:~:;,

the vaJ ue of which, of coursE:', is

·i.n t .he l"llinclr·(!ds of mi l. l." i.lHl~;. T

shudder to think of t:he amount of

l(:'gdl f~H~S dnd l:.:irne that ts go·ing

to bE:~ E:~xpendE~d beforE:~ lAJe finally

get a lot of these properties

transferTed to the communi ties in

which they are involved.

Mr. Speaker, T th:i.nk in closing I

would just like to say there is

great concern out there in St.

John 1 s, in Mount Pearl, in Port

aux Basques, Bishop 1 s Falls and

all areas of the Province whereby

workers are being affected

1..3393 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

adversely by this particular

agr·ec~rnen 1:. Not only rio !AJe t~Jan'l: to

see workers looked aftE!r, and

g 11 a r· r:~ n 1: e E:~ d :i. n i: h ·i. s C'l g r ~'! E:~ mE:! n 1: t: hat

they will be looked after, but

thr~I: ·l:h,,~ c-)conoln ·i.c ba se l:h e y hi:'ll.JE:'

br:H:HI counting on for· so miHlY yE!iH'S 11101tld b~:' rna:i.ntr,d.n('!l'l i-Hld ·1-.hr! Jands

and properties would be, indeed,

1'. t' d rl :; f (;! t' r' ('! rl 0 IJ C Y' l_: 0 ~: hE:! ~; 1::!

municipalities so ·thE!Y uJould have

d b r->.1·: t e r· con 1·: I" o l, Ml" . S p t'! i:l k 1:! r· , of

Lheir futurE:'.

Thank you .

MR. TOBIN : Mr. Speaker· .

MR. SPEAKER : ThE:~ hon. ti'H~ mE:Hnber· for· Bur·"in

Placentia West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: l·l~~ar, hE!ar!

MR. TOBTN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker .

I would certainly like to have the

oppOI"l".Un.i.l:.y l·:o hc'llJ(;! d r('!t~l COTTlrflf'.l'ltS

as it relates to the discussions

i:a k ·i. ng p ld c e, Mr . !3peiil k er·, toda y

and yesterday as it re lates to a

tJery pos i.Li.IJI::'l deal ·l · : h~:ti: IJJas worked

out between the Government of NetJ.Jfound1and and l~ he Gov e r·nment of

Canada as it affects our Province .

Ml". Speaker, I am like all hon .

g~~ni·: 1Prnen consc:i.OIIS or· cogn.izan·l:

of what has takE:~n place hE!I"~~ over

t hE:~ p a s t f (~ w d <'I y s d s "'i. L~ r· Co' l a t: c;· s 1: o

discussions that were brought

about as a result of the

government receiving funding for the railway that was on its way

out. I guess, as the ITIE!ITiber for

Placentia (Mr. Patterson) just

suggested , it was g "i v en its d E• at h

k ne l.l. s omc~~ i": ·i.rn(~ r:~go.

Mr·. ~>pe<'lkc~~r. [ i·:hink th~~ hon. the

No. 60 (EVE•ning) R3393

member for Wctl:. erford Kenmount (Mr. Gullage) made reference to Mr·. Pickl,H'sgil1 . .I guess, I have ·the opportunity to read it into th!::1 r·eccwd ag;:l"i.n ··-· i.t probably IAJas done alrE!ady - a letter Mr. Pi.cker·sg.i.l.l IJJr'ol:e IJJhen hi:'! IAiaS the Minister of Transport, I understand .


MR . TOBIN : He said 'Insofar as the appl.:icdt i.on for· abRndoniTil~n 1-". .is concer·ned, it has been undE:'rtakE:Hl princip~l.l.y on ~he understanding reached with the Government of NHwf ou nrll."' nd t;.Jh c,Hl t: he f C:!d c~ r· A l. gov<·>.r·nmE:'nt undE:H'took to pay thE! ful.1 c_osl.: of t)II:J.J.dtng d rnociM·n h:i ghwcly to Argentia from the f"r'c:-\ns .. -Cc:Hletdc:1 H·i.ghw.:ty. 1

MR. OTNN! How much did (inaudible) .

MR. PATTERSON: ThE:H'e t;.las no m,:·d.nt<~ndnCE:1 in tha ·l: .

MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, that is the question I have. We are sitting her·e, Mr. Speaker, with a letter from the federal Minister of Transport, the han. Mr. PickE!rsgilJ., 1.11hen he agr'E!ed to phas<,~ out HH'! r·cd.J.road from Argentia to the Trans-Canada. That was ln 1968.

Mr. Spl>.ai<EH', IJ.Jh<->.rE! t;.li.·1S +.hf'! Ll~C1dfH' of the Opposition (Mr. Wells) at t.hat t. i.111e T IJ.Iond~H', l~lhP.n thi. ~; deal was worked out, when the GolJl>.rnnH~nt of 1\JP.I~Ifoundl.dnd dnd L~brador agreed, Mr. Speaker, -

AI\J HOI\J. MfMBF: R : No, (inaudjbh1) .

MR. TOBIN : and the ff~dl':1l"r.1l. go lJ (~ r nrnc,~ n·i~

L3394 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

undertook to pay for the full cost of building a modern h:ighway from Argentia to the Trans-Canada?

At tha~

government offer no abandonment the highway

L:irne the pr·ov·Lnc:ia1 agreed that it would

obj l~ct.ions to tht=! of the railway after

had b~:'en opener:!.

Mr. Speaker, IJ.JhE!rE! was thE! clauSE! in thai:. ;::~gre<,~ment t.hi'll:: shotAJS u s where there is a maintenance p r· o g r· ;·'II n ? W h u t' e l~l o r· e L: h e c o n c t'1 r·· n ~; of the Leader of the Opposition 'i": h (·' n , M r· . ~:) p e .~1 k f'! r· , ;:,1 s ··i t: t' <'! J. Et l:: ~~ s to a majntenance program on the ro;:qci~;? rhe Gover·nrnnnt or Newfoundland, of which the hon. genl:ll:'iili.Hl, f"'r·. Sp<-'!c'lkl=!r', I~<JdS a pal"t, aglnE:~E!d wil:h thE~ fedE~I"a1 gOlJ(:!r'nrncnt l·.o cl. os~::' 011l l::hE! railway for a road with no clause, Mr·. Spl~c'lkt~r·. 1,~''1S l:hr'!t't~ i'1ny rnonE!Y put in place for thE! cornrnunitiPs of Ot.lnlFi.l.l.e, Arg(:!ni.:-Lc:~, iHld t.hE!Se places th<.'l.t are going to be affect.t~d by tht~ cl.ose-· Oi.IL of l::he this? Was ther·e any packagE! put i n p l a c (,~ f o r· p E:' o p l E! ~ -~' h o a r· e affected as a result of this?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. No ,

MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition cannot come into this House ~;.Ji th his hoJ.ier -- than- .. thou c1tLitudE:~ and rnr.·1kE:~ out: thai:". he can walk on water and do all these I)Jondl'!r'flll th·oi.ngs .. ~nd c.d: the Si'tlne tirnE:~ be par·t of a goVE!rnrnE!nl:: that. s o l . d u s d c:t~m l h e t 1 1 b o , M r· . Speaker, the people IJ.Jho worked in 1-.i'ldl: (H't:h·1. Wh~~r·~::1 \)Jd:; hi.s maintenance agreement as it r'(-'!l.dtu:.; 1-:o i:hdl:?

That was the first nail in the coff·i.n ·i.n Uw r·r.·Li.l.l~<ldY of Newfoundland and the Leader of the Oppo~;Jl~-Lon lAid:> orH~ oF i·:hn fE:~l.l. OiAIS


who controlled the hamrnE!r' -in

driving that nail get away from that.

and H f~

and

hE:~ cannot COIIIC~S i.nto make such this House today

sti:lt.E~rnents, Mr. ~3p(c~a!((,H'. HE~ lll<'lkE:'S

statements about the agreement and

no rn,:·li.nten<'lnce cl.dtl~> l~~. ~\Jht·'!r'<c' 'i.s thE! rna:l.t'll--.enance clause th<·H'E~? Why

does l·w not come o11t ctnrl COIIIO

c;].(~C\1'1 t;.ri ·l"h LhE• PE~oplE! of th:i.s ProtJi.nco i'lnd lei: l:he pr~t:lpl.f~ t~Jhi·ll:

liE! i ~;?

T can tell h:irn fur·-t:her·~ Mr· .

~) p r:~ <"' !< E:! r' 1 T h d d I_ h r.c' o p p o r· t_ u n ·-j i·: 1J .

And I arn liEH'Y p1noud I Ml". SpeakE!r,

thai:. onl~ t.hi.ng -Ln t:h ·i.s dgr<::'l~rrlc-'nr·.,

together with another one, gives

the people of rny district, the

people of an isolated community in

Petit Forte Uw r·ig ht, which thE!Y

dE:~serve, the rights that eVE!rybody

else has, and that is to be fn~e

of isolation.

I am proud that that is there,

that the people of Petit Forte

will now, in this agreement

tog~ther with another one:~ t h .:'\1:: i .s

in place, $6 million will be spe:~nl:. Hopl~ ftJ1ly, tAl e can gc-:~-1: i.t going as fas-t: as we can and g et

the !Hlgi.neeri.ng 1~1ork done, gel~ l: h e

bu1 J dozer·s datAJn the re, and g i v e

them p0ople the right to get in

thEdr ccu"s and dr·ivE~ out: of their·

C011lllii.I11Li·.y.

T s a y s o rn c,' r-: h ·i n g (~~ l s e , r.11 r· . ~:)pH .:1 k e r I

P E:~ i it For· t c-~ , because of t: he

de-1-: l·~r·rn:i.ndL 'i.on of i·.hr~ hclr'ciiJ.JOr'king,

dE:'dicat<->.d, sincere NE!lAJfound1.anders

lAJho l."i.ue :i.n t:ha1:. communi. ·i·:y, -i.F i. t

were not for them, Mr. Speaker, we

would not be btri.l.ci"i.ng C:'l r'oad ·l:o

Petit Forte.

Wh(->.re was Opposition Peti i: Forb:~

Where lAJas Opposition they were

thE:~

when l;.Jer·e the

Leader of the the people of

being resE:1 tth~d? Leader of the

then, Mr. offering

Speaker, when them $1500 a

L3 395 Jum~ 21, 1.9B8 Vol. XL

year to move for thr·ee in <.~

family? Where was the Leader of

r_ h e Oppos i. tion I: hen? He u1a s not

doing what this gov ernment is

doi.ng and 1·: h~'\i: i.s protec ti.ng the

rights of peop1.e to live where thE! y 1~1<'1 n 1-: i··.o l. i_IH! .

He ~~Ji'IS Oll'i-: l·: hnt"f'! kil1 i.nq

communjties, Mr. Speaker, denying p t~ o p l lJ L h e t' i. 9 h 1·. 1. o ~; I· <:11) i.Hl d l.h!E:!

where they were born. Tha-t: is

I~Jhd ·l: ·I·. he l . u.:-1clc~;" of:- 1·.hH Oppos ·i l: . .:i.on

did. I t;.Jas rr:•rninciE:~d of t:.hat th::i~;

e u e n i. n g ·i. n .:~ c o n v r~ I" s a l:: i o n lA I .i. t·. h

some pE•ople frorn PEd.:it For''l:E!.

Ti·H~'Y l'ldtle nol: for·got:l~r-:!1'1, Mr.

Speaker, where hE! stood, togE•thet"

w-ith some other people.

Just irnag.irH~', Mr. Speakl'!r', hE!

taJ ked about a maintenance cJ.auSE!

for t-he r·r.-ti.huay when he tried,

lJ.Jhen hE! was part of thE!

go v (H' n rrH~ n t , tAl hi. c h f o r· c e d p eo p l e

from the soil they werE! born on,

uproot them and skuttle them

across the bay wherever they could

go. r;i,tJe l-:1-H,!III d bargE• ctnd thJ"OI..\J

land at them!

He talks about maintenance, Mr .

~ip l-:! '" k E:! r· . T h l~ rn;:d. n t·. fHl i:Hl c 1:~ of t:l'llc'

rai1.way was more important to h:.i rn no1~1 t:hi.'ln ·i.l: IJ.Jr.lS 1~1hnn l·: he 11r·geni::ia

track came up, or when he was

111 o tJ J n g p (~1 o p l. f:' f r· o rn P E:~ r· --i. t. F o r· 1--. e a n d

Southeast Bight and these place s.

AN HON. MEMBER : 11 n c I r.11 l:! r· a s h E~ f:! n T s l d n d .

MR. PtHTF.RSON : Tell us about when Harry pulled

FPI1 o11l of Gdnder notAl.

MR. TOBIN: Yes .

Furthe'rmor·E:~, Mr·. Speaker, ln 1967,

with thE! strong arm of the LeadE!r

of the Opposit.i.on ;:·lnd his

co1lE!agues in govermTIE!nt, they

No. 60 (Ev(~Hdng) :n395

aJ.n10st ach:ievc::~d that. There were S i . X h~ fHl f d Hl.'i.l. i. l.;! S l. f~ f t -j_ 11 P ("~ 1-. i. t: for'tE:1, Mr· . SpE:1a k er·. ThE:~ re are ~pproximateJ.y forty there t oddy. Just across the Sound, Mr. SpE:~aker, -Ln South~~as 1:: Bight UH.;! Y were reduced, I believe, to six.

AN HON . MEMBER : Port Anne is gone .

MR . TOBIN: YPs. Por·l~. AnrH"1 'is gon(.;!, M~~r"asiH~en is gonE!, Little Par·adi SE:' is gonP, G rea t. Par ad t s e ·i. s g one , c:\ n d R C"! d Island is gone, Mr. SpE!aker . He a c h .i e v (-?. d 1:1 l. l. t. h a t . I <.il m s u r E! ~w is proud of that, Mr. Speaker. I r:1m surt~ hr~ i'\chi. (:1V(~d 1'1ll t:h;.~i". , Mr·. SpE:!aker . He 'is proud of that.

Mr· . Speah1r , as I said, I was rtnni. ndf~d of i·.h:i.s l:hi. s t1lJf:1rl'i.ng by pE:wplE:~ from PE:1t.i t Fo1nte who wer·e v c,, r y ups wl~ with 1-.h~:-~ L t~ader· of U11:1 Opposi tj orr and the L:i.ber·al Pi:~rty b("1"i.ng opposod l~o l·: hc,1rn hdtJ'i.ng i:1 road.

rod ay, Mr·. Spea b~ r , l.~oH:1 s <'ll..r.J HH~ depths of hypocrisy, whE=1n the member· for Burgc,1o - Bi-.ly d' f.spoir· (Mr. Gtlbert) comes into this House, Mr. Spedker, br·i.ngi.ng in petition after petition every day, trying to get the road paved to Burgeo.

Mr. Sp e akt1r, through Uw hanl L\Jork of the MP for Burin -St. George's we l.ller-<,1 successful. The people of Burgee are successful in getting the road pdved.. But how can d member stand in this House with $12 11J:i.ll ion d ppr'OIH!l:i to pi,w l:~ t: h(,1 road in his district and be opposf~d t.o i.l:? 1 thi.nk, Mr·. Spe:~aker, the people of Rurgeo de s f~ r· v E:' b l:~ 1: t: e r· r e p r· (~ s 10! n t d t ·i. on .

1 c~n tell. Speaker, conferonce

1': h l:' ho n . 9 en i:: J. f~rn.~Hl, r·'lr' . that in a pr·ess

t n M~rystown this

L3396 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

morning with the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Rideout) and the Mintster of Development (Mr. Barrt>.'ci'.), l..r.Je r ewi.nd e d the pe oplE! of the South Coast i..r.JhE!Ine thE! Lei'\dE>.r of +:hE! l.. ii:H~ r'Rl Par·ty and his catJcus stood as it r e lated to l..r..Jhat we1s hr.lppf>.n.ing hc->.re.

Min . Speaker, l..r..Jhy do thE• pE•ople fr·om Coomb' s Cove, ano t:h ("!r part of the South Coa s t, d ese rve th e ir ITIPITJbE!r .i.n l·: hl~ i·IUUSl:1 of ASSC::! rnbly, former member of Parliament, t o stand up her e and be oppos e d t o $8.8 million being spent in the Coomb' s Cove ar e a . I happ e n t o know that area too, Mr· . Speaker I

and T bf:1l. ·i.etJt~ l·:h1:11: t:hr:! peopl.f:1 of Burgeo and the people of Coo mb' s CotJl'!, l.·i . kr~ l:h(! p(~opl.e in ol.:her· par·ts o:f Lhis Pr· o vince, hclVE:1 a

' righi': to expect pauernenl'..

SOMI-: liON. Mi:MBERS: Hear I he.ar!

MR. TOBIN: It is unfor·tunate, Mr·. Sp€:1akt'!r', i.nd1·~ E>.d i. i·: 'i. s s<.·1d, l..r..JhE!rl !:hey el.Hct. people to represent them in t:h e H o u !> r>. oF Ass E!lnb l y 1 "i.lu~! UH'! t:to~JO han. gentlemen they haVE! now and t h t~ y g E:1 t. u p , M r· . S p e <~ k e r , a n d criticize an agreement that is going to gi.ve that klnd of pavement and road work to the area.

Mr·. Sp e;,,ker·, I no t i. Cl:'d tod;:~ y, fr·om a statement by the minisU1r, that tender's a r·e now btdng co.Jled i n rny own district, from Red Harbour· t o Marystown, For pavement, $4.5 million worth of resur·facing from RP.d Had>Our l~.o Mar·ystorAJn. Thc~t.. Mr. Speaker, will be bem!fic:ial to the people From Rushoon and Parker's Cove and Bold Harbour and Brook:;ide, and ;:~l.l. t.hr:! oUH~r· 'places. It is the heaviest ·1-: i"'d r·r· .i. c d r' (-:~d on 1·: h(:1 Bur' j.n Peni nsuJ <".l .


They deserve that, Mr. Speaker. They deserve to be able to drive ovc,~r a decent road, and thr::~

Liberal Party of tl1is Province is opposc,~d i·:o -Lt ..

Mr. Spe~ker, what we are saying l·wl''P is 'l:.hE!Y Ci'.Hl cui: the p:l e how HH:' y l i. k 1:~ . T h e y c <:t n c 1 1 i: U·H~ c d h' hotAI thPy JikE~. ThE:~ facts rPrnain c l. E! .:1 r· ·I: h d 1-. t h (=! s u p r' o j (·~ c 1·. ~; , M r' . S[-JE:!ai<EH', the->. amounts her·e, i. n c l . u cl oL n 9 L h c Fli.~ tJ e 1 n (~ n ·1: F o I" 13 1 1 r' q "' u i'l.l'ld ·I hl=>. l"oad to Petit. For·te, Ml". !) p E:~ c'\ k ~=! r' , .:~ n d Coo HI b :; Co \J e ;~ n d CoJ.:l rl(~t t.o Nol"th HCii"bour, c3lnd pdv i. ng Fr·o1n Pl.111n Point to Fnglee and $10 mil1ion for· Boncwist<:J., pdV"i.ng l:~ec:l Bdy ROc'ld I r·~r·. Sp(~dkt:'r' I

the fact of the matter is that the L·i.ber·al. Party ln Uds Prov·tnce i.s opposed to this deal and arE! opposed to these projects taking place.

MR. BAKER: Do not be so silly, boy!

MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, these are the facts, and the member for Gander (Mr. Bal<er), is against it. I can tE!ll hlm, Mr . Speaker, I will be in Grand Falls tomorrow morning for a prE:~ s s con f(~r(~l'l CE:~, ,,, s "' rndt i-:(H' of fact, and I will be telling the p (~ o pl. c.:> o 1.1 +: t l·w r' ~~ ·i n IJIJ :i. n rl s o r· Buchans lAJher'(~ th E:! LE~r.u:Jer· of thr:~

0 p p 0 ~; ·u: i () 1'1 :; t: 0 0 d 0 n s 01'11 f'! :i. " s I I :~ !) T w~ill be addl"E~ssi.ng tornor'J"OW.

rlN HON. MFMRFR : ( T.naur:l.ibl.e:~) .

MR. T0811\J: J IAlilJ be teJ.ling them that too, Mr. Spedkf:~r.

Mr·. Speakt-?.r, IJJe have:! the r·ail.t~.Jay

that started to go down as a result of this letter thctt was 1.\Jritten here, which the leader of l:he Opposi.t.lon (Mr. w~~lls) is part.

1_3397 JunE! 21, 1988 Vol XL

of, that i s the Argentia line.

What about the passenger train, Mr. Speaker, when they took off the pr:~s!>Htlgf~r· {:r'd·ins and pul:. on the CN buses? How much money was cllloci'li-:ecl by 1-.h<"! FE!der·al gover·nrnE!l'l'l then to impl"OVE! the Tr'dn:> -·-C t:lnddd ll.i. '::J~II~Jdy? l·low rnuch money was put in place then to ·i_rnpr'OtJe i'.ht:' i'r'i:\l'lS -Ci:\l'lr'lcid H-LghtAJay bE!CcHISE! of the demands that t.~.JE:'re

yo ·i. ng l.u bt:! p l <:'1 c l'!d on l·.:hH Trans - Canada by Lhe road cr'll'i.!;er·:;? ilo1~1 rn11Ch monc!y, ~1r' .

Speaker? Where was the Libera] p,,,r·l· y 1-hen? ~,Jh ·i . ch par·L:y L.Ui'IS ·in

government then when that closed dOIJJI'I?

rJJR. BAKER : What about the Depression?


MR. TOBIN: Mr . Speaker, I can tE!ll the hon. g(~ntlt;!rnan one,~ thing, t:hel"e lAJ-i.l1 be

no depression in the Liberal Party l:ls long as b i.g bus:i.n~=!SS cont.:inuco!S to thro~ bucks at their leader. There will be no depression there, Mr. Speaker. TherE! wi.l1 blo! r· 'i. dw s , rJJ t' . S p e:~ i:t k E!r' . T h (~ y tJJ·i l 1. b e from rags to riches, therE! ts no dclllbl'. dbOIIL l'.h,;d·. di:)OIIi': ·1-.1'1(! l .. i.bt-~r·;·~l. Par·Ly. HP dOE!S not: have:' l·: o LI.ICHTY

d l:l o 1 1 l . f:l d E! p t' c· :; ~; -i. o n t ~w r· (·:! , ~~ r . Spr:~akE~l", as J.ong as some oF 1·. hE! b u ~; -i n f:' :; !; pH o p l {:~ i. n t h ·i. s Pro v :1 n c E•

can gr:~t l:. hE!ir talons in Lhe r·:i.ght FH~op-1 (·~ •:Hid 1>Hl conl-.r-ol LhP

levers. There Ll.d 11 be no depr·~~S!>"i.on -i.n l:ht:! L.ib(:!r'r'll Par·ty. The bucks are too big for that.


MR. TOBIN : That is right, Mr . Speaker .

No. 60 (Evening) R339'7

My g o o d f r' i e n rl , my c o 1. J. e a g II!~ f o r· Gr·and Bank (Mr. Matthews) just r't:~llli.nrl:~d 11m of ctnoLher· one::~.

()N HOI\J. MEMR F R : Is thj s a filibus tE!In?

SOMF HON. MFMRERS: H(~ar, ~H'!iH'!

MR. TOBIN: It might be .

Not,u, Mr'. Speaker, LIJhat about the ·f r' e i g h t s e r' v i c e o n t h e So u t h C o a s t of this Province? Who remembers that? D<H:~s the metnbE!Y' for Bur·geo

Bay d'Espo'ir (Mr. Gilber·t) rernc,~mb(:1r that?

Mf~. GIL.BF::f?T : ( In au d fb 1 e) f E:~ r I" y s e r' v :ice on the Sou l:.h Coas i: .

MR. TOAJN : I aru sur·e the mEHnbE!Y' for' For·tune -H E:H'III i. i·. ,.., g e::~ r' 1:11lll::' ml:w r' s i l: .

MR. W()l~i~G.J :

HE~ is not hE:H'E~ ton:ighL .

MR. TORIN: No, I arn sure he remembers WhE-Hl they put the flag half in Petit Forte, Mr . Speaker. they flew the flag for a y1::~c:lr' tn Petit Forb~ hnlf 1flasl~

i.f: . mast When

whole

he was the MP, when he was 1~JI·w n

the ME:~mbt:~r oF Par·1-LdlrH>.nt.


MR. TOBIN: I am sure he remembers that.

MR. WnRREN: No, no that is not right.

MR. TOAII\J: Mr·. ~~pPai<EH', IAJhen they took off the coastal boctl; which was synonyrnou~; t.ui t.h the ....

1.3398 June 21, 1. 9138 Uol. XI..

~)OMF. :-ION. MEM8Ff?!1: No, no!

MR. TOBIN: Tr'llk ,~bout: i:\1:)011"1: r:l s:i.tudi:.'i.on. WC'! reseU:lE!d thE:Hn, Ml". Speab~r, and I~Jh!·'!l'l Lhdl.: d'i.d noi·.: IAIOr'k, t;,Jhal:: d.i.d the L.:lbE:~raJ.s do thc,~n? ThE!Y took away the coastal bodt.

MR. WARREN : No , that l~o.Jd s not. t h t~ L i.l:w r· a 1 s . No !

MR. TOBIN: We 1 1 , r"l r . S p ~>. cl I<E>. r' • t h a n k Co d things have changed. Thank God, Mr. Speaker, governments have changed and attitudes have chang(~d . Tnste;:·ld oF tr·y"Lng to resettJ.e pPople and instead of l"(~lfiOlJi.ng 1:hPi. r' COdSi":<'tl bOi'tl:s fi"OITI

them, l::ike thi:l LibE!raJs did, th:i.s .::~dJni.n·i.:;tr'dl:i . on ·i.s yo ·i.ng l:o ~>eE~ ·to it that there is a road built through i·.h~::dr· cornrn11ni.l·.y.

M r' . ~) p e i-l k r,1 r' , •~ !; [ s C:·l i. d i ~ o d.::~ y , 1~1 ('! happened to b(:~ in Mar·ys l·:own J as L n .i. g h i·: "' n d I: o d d y rn y s 1:'! ·1. F a n d rn y colleagues, the MinisLer of I) t,~ tJ e::1 l. o p 1 n r~ n I: i'l n d ·1·: h l~ M i n ·i. s f: e r' o F Fisheries (Mr. l~jdE:10Ut). All we g o '1: , M r' . S p t'! l'l I< '~ r , I~HH' l:! p o s l t i v E! comments, very positive comments on this ctgre~;;nnent, lncludlng, Mr·. Speaker, a call from a VE!ry p r· om "i. n c-~ n L L :i. b (~ r' i:\ 1 ·i n my d :i s 1:: r· i. c t. , who is known quite weJl to some of you FH:~ople.

The rnE~rnber for St. Ba1"be (MI". Fl.lr'E'!Y), Mr·. Spl~aki:.H', hE~ rni.ght as well say what he is going to scty becc.~IJSE'! l:.h(~ House 'is soon going to close and there may be an election and he~ l~o.Ji.l.l nevEH' kno1.u what t.his p 1 cl c ~?. 1. o o k s l i k 1?. a g a i n .

SOME HON. MEMBERS: H o d r· , h (·:! i:l r' !

MR. W()RREN: According to the polls, he is gone .

1\Jo. 60 ( F IJ n n i . n g ) R3398

MR. TOBIN: He will neuer know, Mr. Speaker,

what this p]ace looks like again.

And I do not blc;"~rnc"~ the->. HH:Hnber· fr·om

thE! Straits clapping his desk at

HH~ fact tha 1: LhP mernt.H~ r for Si~.

Barbe will neuer know what the

House looks like agc~tn, becctuse

when you look at. lhe funding

c1 ll. o Cd h~d i. n Hd s for· HlC:! mE~ 111be r·

f o rn r h E:! S I~ r· a '.i. t s ( M r· . D E:~ c i<E:>r' ) , M r· . ~3pr~r:'lkr~t·, i'tnd i".ht~ l~l<:lY Hli:\1: ·i.t lv1.:;

beE~n Cln:it-".i.CiZE!d by the ITIE:!fTibE!Y' for·

S 1.: . 11 c1 r· b <,~ ( r-1 r· . Fur· o y ) , ·1: h <-~ n 1: h <-:! r· c-~

J ~; no doubt as to how hE~ fE'!t::'J s

r.1bou1·. -u-..

MR. k\IAfH~FI\J :

Do not. IAJOinlny I the mernbE:H'

Si·.r·d "L l-.s has bE~Hn dl.r•e,:lcly

cannot r·un any. more.

for" I~ old He

thE:~

~H~

has

a 1. r· e c:~ d y '- b E:HHJ t o 1 d . M r· . I~ o b E~ r t s

wants to c orne ba c I< there . He

cannot run thEH'E~ any mor·e. Eddy

Rober·ts wants th.at job, make room

for Eddy Roberts okay .

SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh!

MR. TOBIN: Mr·. SpeakE:~r, I say that this

agr<::~ement. i.s a good agreernen t for

the people of Newfoundland and

La b r r.uJ o r . T h o n e s l: l. y b e 1 -i_ P u C:~ , M r .

SpeakE'!In, this agr·E~ernNJt:. is a good

agr' f,'Pllll'!nL for· i:ht• peopln or

Newfoundland and Labr~dor.

T ktJOlAJ, Mr·· . Spc-:!al<er", IAJ(:~l. cornc,HI in rny d.i. !;tr··i.cl:.

()1\J liON. r~FMfl F I~ :

(Inaudible).

Ml~. TOBTN:

it ts

On the South Coas·t and the Bud n

P(:!ni.nsul.:~! I do noi·: rn:ind Si:ly"i.ng

it., on 'l~he Burin Penjnsu]a, we did

not haue a railway down there .

ThE:~ rc-li1lJJay did not mean anything

to the Burln Peninsula, Mr.

L3 399 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

Speaker, it did not TnE!an anything

t.o us.

So why should we be against the r·r.d. 11AJr.l. y , r•'ir' . SpE:~ ,~ kc,~ r, s orne t h:l. ng

that was neuer on the Burin

P e n i n s u l. c:l . P r· o j 1::~ c t ·. · i_ o n s F o r· 1:: h e

use of it this y oar was s om e thing

l ike 1 1 percent of the traffic .

So, Mr· . Sp !-) i'\ I< cH', IAJ h c:d : i. s ,~ 1. 1 t b e

f u s ~ ? Why ar·e t he Oppos i b . o n

!) p p o !;t,1d l:o ·i: h is ? Why ? Wl·1y?

Ev e r y bod y kn ows v.1 hy , beca u se Lh E!Y

iH ' <-~ "'f r r.l i. d o f 'i. L T h f:~ y cl r c:: a f r· a i. d

of th:l. s Prnouince do j ng IAJE'•l.:l . Th e y

dr'e i:l f r•,:-,_j_c:l i:h(! p ::!opl. f:! ·in t-: h ·~ i, ~;

Province are going to be c ome

t reated l lke oth e r pe opl e . Th e y

are afraid, Mr. Speaker.

The member for Burgeo is l"unning

scar·f~d ·i. n his d ·i.~;tr·ict. !"hat .i. s

why he is against the pavement

go·:i.ng doi~Jn there, thai~. is why, Mr·.

Speaker. The member better be.

Pr·obably h<:1 should tal!< t:o ti·H~ MP

a little bit more and not the mayor" and t.hC:!I'l hE:1 IAJ.i.ll knolA.J IAJh<.~t

is going on down there.

I c i:'li'J say , rJJr· . :) ~H:1 i:\ k e r· , on behalf

of the people of Burin - Placentia

West, we support this deal. We

think it js an excellent deal . We

look for'l~J<:'tr·d to +:.hE:' p~1oplE'! of

Petjt Forte, thc"1 peoplE! that. l-.:hE!

l.oddHr' of i:hu Oppos ·i 1--. -i. on tr· l ~:!d l:o

resettJ.e, and then thE! mE'!Irlb(~ r· for·

1-or·l -. ill'l<-:' lhn·m i_ l : c:-~ge Cdl'fl! '! on U··,('!

SCEHIE!, '1-:.hE:~ -FedE:~rna] rn~~rnber~, and

l:r· i ,,1d {·.o clt:!ny thern Lhe coas t_,:-,J

boat seruice they had, -

AN HON. MfMBER: l-Ie l:t·:i.ed .

MR. TOBIN: fl f'! d i. d 1'1 () /·. l: r Y 1 r.IJ r . ~ P 0 d k (H' 1 h ~=!

did.

MR. MORGAN : Mr. Simmons, is Puen (inaudible).

No. 60 (Euening) R3399

MR. TOAI:I\J : Oh, ol1, thal hc,n·c,~ . Oh, T l1e1"E:~ bE=~causE:~ c,' t; :~ n i n g

Mf~ . WARR F. I\l :

iS IAlhy l: houghi-. I t:oJd

he j s h\~ l~ld s

h:im

not not-:

thj s

No, he was afr~id. He l.I.JaS toJ d no 1- Lo come .

MR. TOBTf\J : Yes, Mr·. SpE:~aker, hE! IAJas. it: .in t.I-H=! 198l~. Ed\-'!ct ·i.ons.

We d:id f)o no·l:

you E:'ver· kid yourself. As a HlatlE!Y' of contd.buted cHstric t to I 1.ua s v e r· y that.

fact, rny morE! than

h .ls dc,1fE~at pr·oud to

d "i. s t:r·:i c t any othE!r

in 191!5 and be part of

As a 1nr.llhH' of fact, T hr::~adE~d up the campa.jgn in Budn - St. Gc~orge 1 s. It Wi:ls UH~ mos-t vot.e~; euer got in Burin - Placentia West b y d PC c ,~ n d i. c:l i:l t E:1 t)l h c-~ n M r . P r· :i c 1'::1 won the d.islrict. Jt has since gr'OI.o~ln -i.n thE! l.r•lst. f:l1ec:t ·ion for· lllf~ and that I.Ucl.~; the most votc,,s E:!VI'::1ln gott t=!n.

AI\J HOI\J. MF::MRFR: He has changE:!d it since~ then .

MR. TOATI\J : He has changed it since then. We;! 11 you 1'1E:1U CH' k n Obi, rJ!r' ~>pea kc,n· ' WE:! wen,1 down this morning and s t r' o l. 1 E• d t h r o u g h l: h 1'::~ s h :i. p y a r d 1.u i 1: h the Minister of 0~;:1uelopment, where 641 employees were working directly clS a result of this gouer•nmE:1nt.

MR. BARRETT : And they were some delighted to be included in that hi.ghways agreement.

MR. TOBTN : YE=~s . And I am surE!, Mr. Speaker, the people get to t~lk dbout it.

u~ l: fll(;! So'I:Y on bE:~ half or ·Uw p~wpl.c:~

I. 3lJ-OO Jum~ 21, 1988 VoJ. XI,

IAH) r:lr' f:~ p r· C) II c:l () f L h i. s d (~ d l. ' T t: ·i. s a good deal, and it is too bad thE! l. HH:1 r r'l l , :; iH' (:~ b I I r· y i. n g [-. h ern s t>. l . v f:~ s C.'\ s a r·esult of it.

SOME HON. MFMBFRS: iit~rH', ht"1r:\r!

MR. ~-iPF.AI<ER: ThE! hon. the member for LhE! Stra:i t o ·f 8c,1l.l.c;! I s l.P.

MR. DECI<[R : Mr. Speaker, I find rnys e lF ~H=•corn .i.ng mor'Q dnd mor'f'! C'!l'd .lghhHH:1d as hon . gentlemen from the ot.hE!r side speak . I did not r eali.ze the influence Liberals had on past. h "L s l: o r· y . H c,~ clr' i. n g o F Uw devastation th e Liberal s wrought on thts Prot;:i.ncf:~. T arn al1110st ashamed to belong to th e party dnyrnor·E:~.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : -Hear, hear! --

MR. DECI<ER: l o·\ lll go ·i.ng l:o h r:llJ~:! i:o hi:\V l'! S OlliE' r·E:~SE~ arch donE>., MJ" . SpE~c"'i<EH', t o S E:'''' :i. f L h r,1 r· ,,1 i. :; ;,, n y L r· u i ·. h i. n a n y o f those posiUons.

MR. MORGAN : You ought to be ashamed . You werE> i~Otdll.y i'.lSI'ldtnE:'d ld~;1-. IAII'::'l'!k .

MR. DECKER : Mr. Speaker, I do not know j f Lhe hon. l·.:l'w lrll:!rntH,H' for· flonau-.i.s ta South is awar'E! of it or noC but: my norn:i.na.tion i .s oVE:H' and Tam t: hE:' Liberal candidate in the nE!Xt E!l.ect.:i.on.


MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible) your own detriment .

MR. DECKER: T f 1-. h (,, TIIE?.HII:H:H' I< n Otll:; s ornE:~ t lri. n g T do

No. 60 (Fueni.ng) R3400

not k n OIJJ, I 1:: h i. n k I·H~ s h o u l d g to' t 1.1 p

and say it.

Mr. Speaker, I have here a

st.aterne:~nt by tht:~ hon. thr::~ Pr·ern·i.er

which he made on June 20. On pag e

2 he m<:lb:!S a ~~f~ry Vdl. i.d po-Lnt. HE:!

says, referring to the

announcement, 'Today's

announcc~ment :is an historic stride

i.n our tr·a nspor·tal·:'i.on Fu ·l·:ur' t·~ .

Togeth er with Mr . Crosbie, I arn

pr·ullcl i-o I:H'! i:l p;:u·-1: of ·Liri.!;

f 0 l''IAii-..ll" d ·-··] 0 0 k :i 1"1 9 , C 0 HIp l" E• hE:' I' IS ·.i U E!

'i. rn p r· o IJ 1-~ HIE! n t: 1': o l: h e l: r· c1 n s p or· -1-. ,,, t. · i. o n

!;ystE:!BI of N(c'IAJfourldl.dncl c~ncl

1.. i:l b r· ado r· . ' f\1 ow , r., r· . ~-) p ~~ .:·l!U:! r· , bE:! ca1; s (~ IJJE~ i'll''e on this t:r'dnspor·t·:,,,t_·i.on b·i.l.J., lAin i·\l't'! ·l:c:\k·i.ng

adU<'..II'ItdgE:' of t.hE! bill to discuss

1-.:h'i.s p.·:·lr·+· .. iClil.i:\r' dgr•e:~nlt!nl:. 8111 :

t h E'! i hi n g w tri c h n E:' u E:! 1" c t~ a s e s to

amccze 111e i.!; how hon . nJ(~rnbf.!r'!; on

the opposite side, whose leader

j u s L a n n o 1 J n c (~ d 1·: h 'i. s h i. !; ·1·. o r· i c

stride in our transportation

future, are so reticent in

debating this particular bill.

M(,~tnbE!t'S on thts s i.1h~ of thH Hous~~

haue had to do everything in our

po~.JE!t' to for·ce gover·nrnent. HJ('!rn~.HH's

into debating this comprehensive

stride in our transportation

systE!ffi.

One would wonder i ·f the Premier

actuc:1lly meant what he sa~rl. One

would wonder i ·f this is a colnpr'(>.h(~ns'ivt::• s ·l-.r·tcl::• .. i.n our·

tTansporta·Li on system or·, Mr·.

Spc,~r\b:~r·, 'i.s i·:h ·i.s i:Hlo t h: :! r' dl-.b,~mpl:,

r.:intiJ.ar to thE:~ i-lth~mpt whJ.ch 1.1.Ja S

bro11ghi~ on b y , a fo r•1ner Tory

Gov Ar nm~Hd . i n Ot. tawa, to break th E:!

T ~ ~ r'ltl!> oF U rl'i.o n of L·. h .i. !; P r·o tJ t n c: e

ur:i th Canada. I am taJ king etbout

the Di.efenbahn· c·H'•:I , Mr· . Sper:'lkcH',

r-llhEHI they t r·~i ed to break the Terms

o F IJ n 'i. o n i.~ ~; 1. a y t ! d o 1 1 t 'i. n T r;! r· rn 2 9 .

Tt netHH' cc·~dsus i·~o dlrld'l.H rn~! 1.1.1hy,

E-~V(:~r·y tin1<o~ 1.1.1(~ gE:~t a Tory

Government .i.n Oti:.diAI<'l, l:. hoy h·y to

L3401 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

put the shaft to Newfo1.rndland .

They tried to do it with Term 29,

a nd t hey dra t ry ing to do it a ga i n

today wi th Te rm 31. We, Mr .

Speaker, the L i.b e rd1s i. n th.is

House. are not going to let this

go throu gh withou t put ting up a

fight. and a gallant fi ght it is.

Le ~. the peopl. <-:! of NecJJf.oundland

know, let history kn ow that wh e n

·t~ h i.s <:\drn:i.nist: rc:'li :·ion attemp ted to

take away our constitutional.

,. -i. g h i ·. ' r 'i. r L H H n g i'i.l.l iHl -1': I'IH:O n <; +· 0 (I d

st:l~on g . And IJJe ar<'! pl"epal"E'!d t:n

fi.t31'lt , Mr. !) p e"tkcH' . Wt<: arc~

prepare.d to give it a11 we have

:; o i:h:·ll . blhc:!l'l :;om c-lt) rllc~ l:t~lllf)CH ' :; wi. l: h

our consti t u'Lio nal rights, W~! wil 1 f :i.t3h'L for· Nt.::1 1Alfoundl.:.\nd . Wt~ cAJ .i.l1

not po st ure, we will stand firm,

r,k . :J p o .:, k ~H· .

r•k . ~) fl<:~ t'd<t:~ r• , Ill i:l y I:H:1 J S 1·1 0 I il d [:: (:~ lJ

something about rny per s onal

fe(~Llngs c\bot.rl-. r·c.-d.11AJi:1ys . I never·

saw a railway, I never saw a train

un i·:'i.J. l IAJi:ls St·~VHn l·:een or ('! i.qht:E:!en

years old , and I was not

part .lcular·l.y i .mpr es~;ed wil~ h i t

wh e n I did see it. I have no

nostalgic feelings towa rd

ra iJtAJays , but I do hav e no sta lg ic

feelings toward t he Terms of Un ion

with Canada . Wh en we became a

part of Ci:Hladd, t he~ nal:i.o n had a

national t ransporta tion system an d

IAJI::~ usr~cl the r·t'l'il.; thu r· cdl I.AJas our·

extension of that national.

tr<.Hl!>por·t .~ 1 :·i . on sys1- e u1 . Experl: s

tell us , and I agree, that today,

7i.n 1980, 1-: ht:) 11 1 os1~ ci!ff·i.ci ent u.my to

transport freight is by r oad .

ThcH't:~ i.s no Ai" 911niEHl~. ther't!).

nN liON. MEMBF.R : (Jnaudible) Oi ... tarAJa, mosUy.

MR. DECKER : o 1: t <:H~Jd 'i. ~; q 11·i. 1: c'! l. E~ g -i. L ~i rnd 1". e j_ n

transferTing. their· obligation fr·orn

r·a-.i.l. to r·odd . As long i:\S t:hr::~y

maintain it, and as long as it

r·~~ md -i. ns fhH'i". of · Lhr'! Con s l:: .i.tut .L on,


·1-. h e r· e i. s no fH' o b l. mn . I n l 9 8 8 , l·: h e roCI.d could IAJell be the best way to 1-. r d n s p o r +: f r· (! i. g h l: a c r· o s !i l: h :i. :; na.t.:ion. ThE'rE:1 is no argument. Ry tht-:1 l:.i.Jnc,' l.:h·i.s dgr·r~enH~nt ·i. :; complE~ted, t:l1e yPClr 2003, fifteen y ('! cH' !) f t' 0111 n !)I~ I' b l i.mp ~; uri. tj h L lH} t.hE:1 rno!; 1: r:!conorrl"'i.r: .:d. c'!rf-i c: i.c·~ni· '~''"Y to transport freight across lh:is P r· o lJ i. n c: r~ . J f t h ;;t i··. i. !> t h c,1 c: ;,, ~; e , Ml". ~)pE:!Cik(,1r', then und(c11" the TE~r·rns of Union IAJ'i Lh CiHlddd c.:~nr'ldc·\ :i.s ohl:igat(-!d, ::i.l: j~; IAJJ":iti:.E~n :in stone, H: i. s p a r· t o f UH~ Co n s i: i. t u 1·. i o n , ·i ·1: is part of Lhe ag1"eernE111t IAJC:1 rnadc:1 IAJith Ott.;;\IAJc'\ ·i.n 191~9, IAJi.ll. change:! from rail, to road, to blimps. Thc'lt. is tuhat is .i.rnpor·tdnt. That is wrjtten in stone for<:1ver. By the year 204-9, IAJho knotAJS hotM t.o~H~ will be moving frE1ight across this Province? It could well be by rail again. But this agreement says we will never go bclck, because we have allowed Ottawa off the hook. And if the rai.l.way once again becomes an e:1ffj dent way to rnove traffi.c, we c~n whistle D·lx:ie, becauSE! th:is gover·nment in c () h 0 r· t s I.AJ i. {: h c'1 n I) I: h {'! 7' T I) t' y go~JE!t"nruE~nt havc:1 taken at.uay that Tc·H'Jtl of IJtYi.on, Uwy hi:'llH~ riP:; Lr·oyec:l :it, Ml". f,~·H·1aket".

rJJr· 0 Spc~r.\I<(·H'' ·i. F 1,1)(-;~ do not soon yt~1-. lhir- gover·nruent out., by the year· 3000 h<H'Se c:tnd C:i.H't·: HJ:i.ghl: !:H'! l·.ht-:' on] y econorn:l.Ccl1 th:ing to US€:' in l:h:i.s Pr'OlJinc::e. Flf:!C:dll~>('! l::hey dr'e tearing t·he:1 economy down, noth:ing will. be:' eff··i.c"i~~nt-. <~xcopt the hor·se and car·t., bE1causE:' the horse can gE~t a b.i.t of gr·ass on th~~ s.i.d('! of ·the road .

No matter how the federal government deddes to live up to its ob1.igat.ion, the fact of th~~ matter is they have a contract t.Adth Newfoundland to pr·ovi.dE! r.1 transportation service in this Pr·ovi.ncc~. It. ·i. s nol~. t:hal: l.ong Rgo that the Preruier·' s position !Alas

1. )IJ.()2. Juno 2l, 1.9B8 lJol XL.

sirnil.ctr to our s in thctt regard, and I cannot understand what br•or1ghl· on U·d.~; c:tbout - fc'lcr~, 'dl"i.s total turn-ar·ound, this 180 degt~E!E! l: 1 t r· n "' t' o 11 n d . T. c d n n o t u n d f:! r s t a n d i t , Mr· . SpeakE! r· . It r· ern:i n d s mE• of C Co~ 0 t' 9 {;, 0 1''1~1(,~ -, J 1

') 1 9 8 4 1 L h c:\ [·. b 0 0 k I&Jh·i c:h I i:1111 •;llr'cc' I:IH:1 hon. :-)pf~i.'rkr,~r· hjmself must have:1 read, tAJhe:>rJ t:hE•r'E! I.IJ(c1t'C'! f:ht'U('! :>LII;l(!Y'f>OI~H~t'S 'i.n l:: hE! lAJOrJ.d, OcE1ania, Fc:~st As:.i.Cl and F.ur·.~~;·i d. 1\Jot~.J LhesH LIH""~''lo! SUpE!Y'pOtAJE~r·s IAJE!I"E:' const<Hll:ly :i.rt <.·1 s Lc:-~ 1: H oF IAJd r· : Hw r· n '•'''t s 0 c E:! an .i d and East Asia at tA.IcH' agc-dnst: [i .IY'd~>:i.a, or· i·:het'E~ t~Ji:\S Eur·as.i.a and Oceania against: East Asia.

The Minister of Propaganda from Ocednia was making a speech and he was attacking Eurasia the scoundrels, Eurasia the good--for-nothings, Eurasia was not ftt 1-:o be~ on thi~; pl.anE1t, and he was praising up East Asia the good, Fast Asi.a 1··. ht~ wonderful., East Asia the gr·eat, and somEd::lOdy p l.r 1 c: k C'! c:l o n h "i. !:; c n c'l l: 1.: i:\ -i. l d n d s a ""i. d , 'We are now at pPace tAr.it.h Fur·a.sja

i:l nd .:-~1: '''d r· r.o~ri. L h F..:~ s {: As ·i i:1. 1

MR. SPF~KER : Order, p]ease!

MR. DECKEr~: I am 9"" l~tj ng to thE~ poj nt, Mr·. ~:)pcc~i:\kc'!t'.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, pJease!

The:• han. member is straying a l. ·i {~ l: l. e b i. I~ . T do no I~ see l:: he relE1vance, so would you plE!ClSE! g c:d: back to the subject.

MR. DECKER : Than!< you, Mr. Speaker .

T f You r·_ H on o u t' uJ:i.l. 1 j u s t . bE~ cH' tAli t h rne a felAJ rnorE1 seconds I IAJ:.i.l] t:.i.e i. 1·. t'l 1. l. i. n .· 1 d s s u r· e:1 y o u , S ..L r , that is what I intend to do.

1\Jo. 60 ( ::: lJ c·~ n :i. n g ) 1~3LW2

MR . W. CARTff~:

Talk about Mother Goose .

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear·!

~R . DECKER: In the midst of his spE!ech t~.Jith

hls attack on Etu·asid, souiE!One

plucked on Iris coatb'liJ. and said,

'WE:' ar!::! notAl at. IAkH' 1..11i.th Er.:1s ·t-.

Asia. We are no longer at war

IAIJ. l:: h [ U t' d S i. d . 1 () 1'1 cl IAJ'i. -1:: h 0 ll'l":

r11iss:ing a bC'!at, thE! Minister· of

p t' 0 p d 9 d J'l d a !:'! n 9 c:~ 9 (;! cJ "i_ rl C:·l ·fIll 'l_ ~- C . :~ J 8

aUc..tck on Ftu·asJa, t..~dt.hout miss:ing

r.l ~)(~ 0 ~ 1·. I r•1 t' , s p (:~ i:1 k f:' t' I d n d r. ( c'[r)

1nc~ l at e t hcd· ·1: o s on1e n BlAIS paper

c T :i. p p i. n 9 :; :r: h.:~ •J (,~ . 1 I I H 1~10 1.11 d

I" c_, ~; t n r· e p a s s E~ n g e:• r· s e r· v i c e .

f> '~ c k for· d c h o !; e I Jl"i. !; C en 1-. r· ;:1 l.

NE·!I4Jfot.lnd1and r·ailumy tOIAll'l t ·o

a n no u n r: e a r· :,HH:' IAH~ d ~) f for· 1·: by U11~

pr·ouinc::i aJ. govE:qnnmE~nt to restore

l":hc,~ lt.rl<:1 Lo ·i 1·. !; or·ig i.n<:ll. r·ol.c''. '

We are at war with Furasia!

He sc:dd, 'ThE~ fe:!ciE~Ina] government

IAri l. l. b 0 e X p I'! C h:' d t 0 f>r' 0 V -j_ d C~ 1:: h (~ rnonE!Y r·e:~quj red. ' Eur·ClsiCl thE! bad,

t: he E! vi J. . T 1..1ri ll g "i v f:! 1:1 d ·i. r· f.! c t

quote, 11 0ur policy, says Mr.

Peckforrl, is not based on

nostalgia but on the certain fact

that I.AJe wll.l. nc:'e'd l:hc'! r·ailu1ay i.n

an energy expc'!nsiVE! future. 11 We

rH'C'! at. IAJar IAiil-.h F.ur·asoi.a, Mr·.

Speaker . Peckford told supportE!rS

·-· anot:l·wr' quol·.al::i.on -·- n·rhH r·dili,~.Jay

must be a pe1nrnanent transportation

s y s tc-w1 i. n 1:.1-H~ P r· o •J i . n c e , 11 a n d ~H~

reclffirmed his commitment to see

t h '=' "l: i. 1-: i . s u p g r ad ~~ d . lftJ r~ a r· C:' .:-1 -1-.

l.rJiH' w::ith Fur<-ls"ia, Mr. Spe:~aker·.

n statement hy Premier Rrian

P E>. c k For· d i. n rJt ,,, y l 9 B o , f t' o rn ;_.,

dJ s cuss :"ion tape:! on U1C:! bi 1<-..t·t E:! r•al

i. s s u e s , C"' n C\ d <:1 INc'! r..\J f o 1 1 n d 1. i.·l n d : 11 T h e

l"i:'l '.i.l.uJay '.in Newfound] and providE:1S a

•J·.i.t.:·ll. tr·.:lnspor·l-.d+:.:i.on J·i.nk dnd TIHISI:

I:H'! rrra:i nt.;;d nE!d and impr·oved to

p I" o •J -i. d ~) r t·=! s :i. d c:! n t: !; c:-1 n d b u s i n P s !; "i. n

L34-03 JtJne 21, 1988 Vol XI .

Newfoundland a level of service

comparable to other provinces.

This is particularly so when the

overi:lll energy situation facing

the world over the next number of

decades is t~ken into account.

Mr. Speaker, IJJhat.: about th::i s onE:!? 11 Peckfor·d vor,~Js l·:o kE!C:~p the

railu1ay. 11 Yes, ~1r. s ·pE!akE!r, r'ight

:i.n l·: i·H~ rn-i.dst oF his SfH>.EH:h IAI'i.t.h

his lambasting of Eurasia, someone

pl.1.1c!<c=!d on hi.!; coa·t-.i·.c:=t i.l !:lnd \>did,

'But u1e have cl Tor·y GovE:'r'nrnent j n 01-. l:r~I..\Jd notll . 11~U no :l.onr::Jc.;!t' haue a L::i. I:H>.Ina) Government :in OtLauJa not.~l, 1

iHHI t~J:i. t". h 0 1.1 t b l. :i. n k 'i. n g d n f'! y E! l. a S h ,

the Minister of Propaganda from

F u r· .~·l !; ·i ;,, !) d y ~; , ' To cl "'y 1 s

announcernc:~ nt j s an ld s-tor:i c st.l":idE!

·i. n o 11 r· 1~ t' iHl !; p or· l'.i.·l i". i. n n f u t u r· H .

To g E~ t h e r· IAri t h M I" . C I" o s l::d. E! , I a rn

f>r'orrd h> 1:>:) ''' piH'i: of l: his

forward-looking, comprehensive

i.m p t' o •J c,~ triC'! n ·i·: l: o 1: h t:~ 1-: r·"' n s p or· t. i'l t. · i on

system of Newfoundland and

l..abr'L'\!.IOr'' I ~.]OIAI, r"lr'' !'3pE>.dkHr''

ther·e is doublE!Speak. Is that l.he

word ~hey used for it?

AN HON. MEI'-1BER : Newspeak .

MR. DECKER: N~'!IJ.Jspedk?

SOME HON. MEMBERS : -,soub're:~t:-a-ri<-:---- .. -----

MR. DECKER: T thi.nk l·:ht-~ t~Jor·d T i'llll l.ook-Lng for·

is doubl eth:i nk. Doublethtnk !Tl(!ans

l:he pot~H'!t' of hold-ing hAlO

cont1nad'i ctory beliefs :in one's

uri. nd ~;-i. rr111l ·l:i:H1 e~ o 11 sly i:Hld ;~ c c E>. p 1·: ·i. n g

both of them at the same time.

r'lr·' ~)pt,~akt;!t' I T lliOUlr:l gdthC:!Y' 1·:hdt

t:his is doublc-?.think, a classic

"'~x.unpl.~-:~ oF doubJ.e:~l.:hi.n!<.

M r· . ~) p f'! i:l k t·=! r· , l. H l: u !> l. () o k ;:~ t·: s o 1 n e

of the other i"" hings !:hal: u1ent on

t~Jh~~n L:h i.s pr·e!;•; c:onfHt'Hncn tAJds


given yesterday. ·In all the hullabaloo, we have m:issed the s pee~~ c h by r.1r. I~ on l .. <::llAlll-~ s s. '[ s up p o s e t he k e y s en ten c e in M r· . 1.. rWJ l. c~~ s s I s p e f~ dl j_ ~; l: hi. s : I T h (·) b 0 !) s i:. back. 1 ThE:! boss he is r·pft:!rr··i.ng l:o, 1'-1t'. Spr~~ak~-:~r·, i.!; IAJhun CN ~n· : i ngs tlt€:d.r tr·ucldng sys'l..E~n'l b.'lck ·into i\h=!IAJfollndl.and .:-u-1d beg·i.n!; l o c:ompE=d~e tALi Ht th€:~ Don P:i.J gr·irns IAJho hdiJ!·~ on(;! i:r·ttck, IAJ 'i. l:h l:h1,~ Cdt'l Mrtys t~Jho hdVE:~ a couple of trucks, tAri.·J .h l:.hr'! N!:~IAifoundl.atldl·:·r·s IAJho .:-tr·n ·t-.r·y:i ng to 'L i'.lkc~ advantdgc~~ of Uw d c:~ r· c:~ g u 1 d '1: i. o n "i. n 1·: h ~::~ 1: r· u c k :i. n g busin(•ss C~nd ar·c,~ -trytng t.o bE:'COITil'". strt•~l. l, Lnc:lependr-:!n-1-. bus ·i.nr-~ss1nen. 'The boss :is back nolAJ', he says. 1 r h c~ .i. n i. t ·i. at .i. v E~ 1

.. .. hE~ r· e f E~ r· s 1 ... o th::is agreement- 'lAlill allow a highway orientated service to survive and to flourish. 1 How? 1 We tJ.Ji.11 p.l.ck up and dt>.l.iver by road from dockside in N e lJ.Jf o u n d l a n d . 1 W h a t d o e s he H1 i. n k the Don Pilgrims are doing in NetJ.Jfoundl.and t.oday :L f thc~y ar1-:! not. pjcking up at dockside and delivering to the businesses of NE~v.Jf o u nd 1. and .

SOMF HON. ME'MP.FRS: H P. rH' , h !:~ oH' !

MR. Di::Ci<FR: 'We tJJ:i]J. g:ive our· customers rnor€:~ i-t'I~CJIIPI')·[: drlcl t•eJ. · j i~1bl.l;! ~;et' IJ'i.CI~, 1 hl;! ~; a y ~; . ' WE:! 1~ri J J off P r t h c~~ m <-l n .i.nt:'!r'lflOddJ. CIISb)IJll:'t' :;:~t'l) j Cl'!

o , .. g an j z at :i on n a -L. :ion a 1 :in ~; cop c:! . lrJ~~ IAJ"i.l.1 connPcl·: l:hHm rnor·~'! E~ffE-!CtiVE:1ly than can anyone else IArit:h 1-:hc-:. Vdsl·: CiHldcl'i.r'tn, U.~3, i.'lncl Overseas intermodal freight markets. And we w:i.J.J. increase market share. 1 Where is he going to get this increase in market share? Is it the four·teen extra trucks ·1-.he PrE!fn.ler· talks aboul-.? No, he is going to put every small tr·ucker· i.n t:his Pr·ov i.ncE~ out of business. That is what he is going l·.:o do, Mr·. SpE:~aker·. Th:i.s "is

L3404 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

a dec 1. a r i.'lr. ton of tAla r· by a government subsidizc->.d company who i. s going to pi.il": 011r' l:r·uckf'!lns out of business. 1 The boss is back 1

,

r'1t'. SfH~i~lkt:Ot', d dc~~c:J.dt'dl:i . on of I.J.ldr'.

r'l r' . ~) p c;! i·dU) t' , !; 0 Ill f:' 0 i:: hE:~ r p 0 . .i. rl f: S have~~ been touchc=H:I on and I tAli'lni: to r· !'! i. n f Cit' c ::. 1· h 1:' 111 . ~~ ~w n lAIC:' 1: d 1 k about changing th:is natjonal "1: r· r'Hl !) p 0 t' 1·: d 1: ·j () n 1- t' l) rn t' ,,, i. l. ('! n d putt"ing it on the r·oad, this d g t' ~~ H rnc,1 n 1: cl or'! •; no l: "'s ~; 1.11" u lllf'! 1-i"li''t"l: we shall hcive a safer and rnore

-<,~ F f i . c ·i, P n 1-. hi. g ht~Jd y 1:: o d r· ·i. u r-~ o v c;! r· , not on September 1. I use the h "i, ':] h IAkl y fl t' d C l::i. t: d ll. y ~:! U e t' y I Ale P bHl d , Mr·. SpeakE!r, and I knov.1 that euE•ry so tnany VE~h·ic1es T rrtE!et: ·i.s a tractor-trailE!r. And I knotAS that: i.f I meet d l::r·acLor· -.. t:r-a.i.l.(·:!r' l: oday, she v.Jill have a load of pulp wood on, she will hi:tVE! some;! fur·n.i.t.ure on, she IJ.Iill have fJour· or rn:lJ.k or cement or· SOITit! other· conunodity . But after September 1, Mr . Sp~~~akE?.r', IAJhE:!n I ITle<-?.t I: hat tractor-trailer corning toward me d 1-: 6 s or· '/ 0 mi l.1:! s d n hour· , I t~r:i. ll know that in addition to puJ.p wood o t' f u r· n :i. l~ ' 1 r· r~ o r· 1~1 h a 'c r-~ 1; r:! r , t: h i'l t: truck could be 1.oaded with dynarn ·i.l-.1:' js what:.

and the

SE:~p l:f>.Jrtbl'!r' '1..

Mf~. r)OY u::

dy ndtlri. ·I·:H C df>S .

fact. v.Ji11 be That

after·

ThE!InE:~ is dyndrni"l.E:~ on th~~ h:Lghway H 1.1 1,1 r· y d ;_~ y , -1". hI'! r·· n ·i. !; p t' o p .::1 n e o n 1-: h l'". highway <~'V!'::~r·y singl.e day. hlhcl'l·.·. nt.:'lkr:.s i. t ;,HliJ d:i.fft:!r··HnL no!;J? Ther·H is propane on the highway every dr-1y dnd dyndrn"i.l·:n on thr·'! h"i.ght.~Jay every day. What j s goj ng l::o be cli.Ffer·c~nl": notJ.J? And also, a lot. of these substances ar·e hclUl.ed by tJ.Ja 1-:er·.

SOME HON. MfMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. DECKER: Mr·. S p tH·l i<E~ r· , IAJhen t:h<-?. hon .

No. 60 (Evening) R34-04

rni. n i. s l: e r· y ~~ 1·. ~; up !-. o s p 1,~ .:~ k , T 1~10 u 1 d

J :.ike h:iru to rE:!r.lffir·rn that thE:~re is dync:~Jn-i.l·:e •. ~nd dyndrni.l:t~ t:aps bcc!i.ng

transpor·h~d ott thE! road today.

After September 1, I will know

that I no J.onger hclve the security

of me:~et:i.ng comtnod:ities onJ y, but

t: h e r (,~ IAJ i. 11. b e:~ d 1J n i'l mi. b'! a n d dynamite:~ caps.

AN HON. MFMBER: (Inaudible) .

MR. DECKF::f~:

M1~. Speaker, I am beginning to

th:i.nk t.ha 1-. th1'! PrE!Irti ('!I" ·i.n th:is agreement lived up to his past

h -i. s t: o r· 1J of t d k ·i n g 1~1 h •"- l: o v P t' h e c d n g e-~ t lAJ h EHI he:~ can get i t. , as he s aid

i'lbou l: l: l·w rrHHflbl'!t' l-or· Hel.l.l:~ lJI.I(~. lh'

l4J:U 1 ta kc-~ tA.Jha t. he:! can g E!t, whe:~ n he,~

C:<'\rl 9f~l: :i.l:.

r--'lr . tAli 1 l

Spc,~d k :~t·, k notAl

df h:H' Sep·h~rnbe r· t tl·1at that.

l:r·,::~.c l:or - tr·<.d .l <~t' corn:i.ng l-.OI~kH'd~; Jill'!

o."l !;:i.x"l.y--fivE! or· seventy ndlc,~s an

hour· co1tld, "i.n t:hPnr·y al: l . l'!r.\~;-l-.,

l1c.tve ni ·trogJ ycer·:i n on boar·d .

MR. RIDEOUT : The theory was the same way two

months ago.

MR. DECKER: No it was not, it was all by rail, as l:he rnini.si:<H' kno14JS. As of September 1, the dangE!rous goods and c h etn:i cal.:> lAri.ll. be'! tr· cll'l sf EH'r·~~d from rail to road.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I do not have any r'lr'9UlflfHll·. IJ.Ji th that. ··i. F :i.t IAHH'P

phased out. In the Pickersgill 1 e t b;! r· y o u 111 -i.l. 1 no L :i. c e 1-. h H l: M t' .

PickersgilJ refHrred to the fact t: h r.ll: t h f>. r· o ad h a cl :~ o b P p 1/'l~ i. n

pli!!CE:~ befot"C-:! HlP. br·anch l:i.ne tJJas phas~~d 011l·:.

AN HON. MEMRF.R: ( T n au d i b l. r:')-~--

I. 3405 June 21, 1988 Vol XI

Ml~. Dr:cKER : Oh, the minjster is threatE!n::ing rnc"! no1~1. We,~ ll., l.0.l·. h:i. s -1-.or·y show Lhdt

when the rnemi:H:H' for the Stra:it of :1 e 1. l. T s J. 1:~ 'AI C\ s u n cJ t~ r· a r: t. a c k a n d

being threatened he dtcl not f] inch

b 1.1 t: h f:~ ~; t: 0 () d s h· 0 n o.j ' f'-1 r· ' s p e~ o;\1(('! r ' And he will stand strong, bc,~cclUSB

hl;! tA.Ji.J.J. not be rnu:zLl.ed by L:hr:•

Minister of Transportion or the rtlf>.lnbtH' f'or f:lonc'lv-i. :; h\\ ~>ou t-.h, or·

wha ·t:e'!VE!r.

The logical reasonable thing to do, Mr. !')p~>.aker·, IAJi.l-h Lh ·is r·a"i.l.tAJ,•ty

was to phase it out. If hon.

rn em b c-H' s h a v P I" e a d 1·:1'1 e I. l b E! r· H 1. position on that, which we have h<HI no1~1 For• solllf'! 1-.-i.IIH'! , ~~Je sa.id

that the rail should be phased out OlJHt' d i:Hn lj(>.clt' pr:!t'i.od or· I)Jhal:ever· i-t: take-:!S. NotAl how much mo1ne ~; ,,~ c 11 t' ~-:' t~Jo' 1l. rl T F :>. 1:' l. , or· d n y o t h 1,, r·

rneruber·s in this House tJJho dr·-.iv~>.s

Ol)f:~t· Lhi:\1: hi.ghtAk11J, i. F IJ.H>. could bf~

assured that there wouJd be no

d i.Hlg ("! T' I) II!) c h f~Hri . c d l. s 0 n UH~ ~d. 9 rHJ.Jd IJ

unt:il a highway was put !::here IAih'i.ch l~k\~; c;.~pdble of handl. i.ng l::h i.s

extra traffic . It should have b c.~ e n p h i:l s 1,~ d o u l:: , M t' . ~) p e d k c;! r' .

This is what I see wrong with this p ;u· f ·. i c u 1 a r· agree 111 e n i-. . T ~HH' P .i. s no

attempt to phase out thE! r<:dltAlclY,

.i. 1-. i. s go i . n g to be the:~ b J g b a n g

thE!Ory of creation. It is a big b C:'l 1'1 g ! T t I Ali. l. l. h a p p E! n j 1.1 S t: l .. i. k !::'

that:! OnE! minute WI'::~ have the t'i;J.il.tAJO.'\y, and Lhl:~ l'll"!xt. rninut.e everything is dumped on t:he

h-i.ght~Jays dnd, l.~:!t 1111->. ·l··el.l. you, Mr·.

Speaker, the hightA.Jays tAr.i.ll not. be s;:\f(>. 1--.o clr·ivf~ ov~:·r· ·i.rnlfled .. i.a'i-:<:!l.y.

l\lo1~1, they IAr:i.ll. be,~ i. n "' llld'l:ter· o ·f time.

MR. DOYLE : (Tn.:•ll.ld:i.blf:') F.ngl~>.(,'.

MR. Of:CKFR: ~1P!~;.~!ci.ng or~ En<.fi.I;!P, r.!Jr·. ~)podi<fH',

No. 60 (fvening) R340.S

when Minister of Transportation gets up, I u.Jould likE! him to tell ml-?. hotJJ rnany koi.l.omt~tr·e:~s hl-?. .Ls going to pave Jn Fnglee. If he wants to tall< about Engl.E>.e, i:llthough i. l-. :i.s a bit irrelevant to the topic, j l.l S 1·: 1". (:' l.J Jr]('! h Ol~l tnr~\ J'l I) k :i.J OniC'! l: t' r~ :; dl'ld u.JhEHJ. I IJJOU] d appr·eciat:.e that.

N ot~J, M J" . S ~H:! a k EH' , part of ·t:.his i'H:Jr'(:H':~llll:~nl: ·i.n c l1.1de!; d !)l:'concidt'l) I"C1ad~; CI~Jr'E:!E:!ITif'!l'lt. Tl·1al is COI"J"C-?.Ct, ·i.~; L i·. no I? ~~<:!rnbr'!t'·; t..~ri . l'l. i·\ g t'r• H .

r· ·i. IJ e 1j t'! d r' ~; .:-\ g C) l: h 1:' p r' (" IJ . i. 01 I :; MtnisteJn of Tr·anspor·lat.:ion stood ·i.n f~odd i.ck l:on dnd •;,,icl I I)Jr'l:; Hw flli'..IY OJ" cd~ l: hE:~ tj IIIE>. and WE>. l.i.JEH'(:' 1: r:-1 1 k · i. n 9 i'l b o 1.1 t 1.: h 'i. ~; v r,, r' 1J t' o d d ·1: h r'l t tiH:! rnin::i.st:er is talking about t o n i g h t. . T 1': i s n o t i. n l: h i. s secondary roads agr·eement, mind you- 11 Thl-?. only r·t~i:ison the r'Oi;\d l·.o F.ngh!e is not paved is because we do not have a secondary roads agreement. But we are on the verge. . 11

AN HON. MEMBER: And he just (inaudible).

MR. OFCI<FR: F i. v E:~ y e a t' s (!\ g o . 11 W l>. a t' e o n i': h c,~ verge of getting d secondary roads agrc:H-?.Jrlen I~ no l·. dS good r'IS I: he 90/1.0 o n e y o u h a d '"' h E' n y o u h ad a 1 'i b e r· a 1 go'H!t'nrnc•nt:, 1:)11[: :i.l·. 1~ri. l.l bc,' 70/30 or 60/fl.O, whrd.evE·!r'.

Mr~. DOYI. f : W h 0 g 0 t: 'i. [: f 0 t' .IJ 0 II?

for· you?

MR. DfCI<fR:

~" h !) 9 0 1: i. t

M r . S p E~ d k!;! r' , f o 11 t' y e a t' !i ''' g o 'l': h t~ prc-?.vious rn:inisi.EH' got up and he Sr'l'i.d, 1 ThP only rf:~r:•\SOtl I~H?. hr~Ve not: finJ shed lhe road doJJJn to Rurgeo, or· IJJ!'! have not done~ UH·) r·oa.d across cownt.ry from PJ.um Point to E n g 1 r:~ E~ ·i. s 1

• g tH?. s s ? 1 I~H'' d o n o t. have a second~ry roads agreement . 1

L3 4·06 JUnE! 21, l9H8 Vol XI..

T h t' e e IJ t~ <H' s a 9 o , a n d E~ v c-?. n 1.1.1 i t h 'i. n the last few months, the pr·esent Mi. n i. s +: e r' o f r r' a n s p o r t·. <.·l l ·i. o n g o l: up. Mr. Speaker, thE! prE! Sent M:i.nish:!t' of Tr·anpor'tdl:i.on gol-. a secondary roads agreement for us, yE~s h!:~ did, b11l': look dl': !::he~ cusl-.. He sold out a Term of Union, sofllf.! Udn9 ~~~r-~ cot tid hdVC'! h<'ld forE:'ver·. It is norma] Lo hctVE:' a !; H C: 0 n cl d t' 1j t' 0 i:l. d !; ···llj r' 1:' l~ 1 f1 C! ll 'l: r h f'! 't.u.1o EH'C-?. rnut.ually c,~xcJ us:iVE!. Thc,~r'E:! !;l1011l.d b1·:! 1'10 COr'J"I'!}i.'ll ion bi'!I:.I•I<'!Uil

'll1c,~m. Many pl"ov:i ncE~s hi:\vt==o !i r.' c on rl.·\ r· y t ' o d cl :; .:·\ 9 t' ~~ C:! 111:~ n 1- ~; , b u t: for us t.o gE:!t a SE!COndaJ~y l"oads i~\9t' f>.nlllf.!l'lt, I~IP hr•td to g i.~;p up Ollt' Terms of Union with Canada.

I b e 1 i E! v e my t j rn E! i s a b o u t t o l" tHl oul: and I I)Jant l:o geL to sornel:hLng because I do not want to leave this speech tol':ally negative. I want to leave hope for N("~wfoundlClndr:H'S, so I Cc\1'11'101:: s·il: down until I leave the positive part of this speech. Now, Mr. SpE!aker, Lllhat I said has l:wen neg a l·.i tJ f~ l.y c r·oi.!~-i. cr,, J., I ~:; u ppos e, oF this agreement. We have c r i l: 'i. ci. z C:! d ·i. t . r h ~H' e h a s be e n some positive criticism and some nc-?.gal:ivf>. cr· ·i.l::i. ci.sm, and ·:i.t. ·i.s nol: a good u.Jay to leclve a speE!Ch. I d 0 i'1 0 l: I~JiHl i'. i: 0 1. ('! i'lV f~ I'H:~ 9 d l: 'i. V !:~ feE:~Jings, so I have hopE~ for' 1\Jet~lfor .Jndli·\ncl:~r·~; ·l:od;.~y I~Jhosc'! r· ·i.ght.s h r.l v e l:w c:nl s o 1 d o u t , L~J h o s e r e nn ~' o f IJn ·i on 111 i_ i:il CrHld:L~ h.·\V C.'! bef'!l'l

bl"OkE:!n, IJJhose consl:.itu'l-:i.ona] r·i~1ht h.:·l !) b::! c,~ n h-1. k n n ·11~lr'11J. Nn1~1, I hr::t ~; (~ hope for Newfoundlanders and I h o p ::! 1: h ''' 1: 1:: h i ~; g ~::d: ~ ' o u t.... T h a tJ P her(,~ a commun:i que from the L.ibEH'a1 P.:lt'i:y .i.n Otl:a,,~,lr', and l:h:i.s -i.s good neiJ.JS for Nou.JfoundJandE!Y's u.JI'lO haVE! j u s 1·: s ~~ e n t h (~ Co n s l: i L u t .i o n broken . A federal Liberal gouernn1en:·. 1~1oul.d consider' the follou.ling:

MR. MORGAN: Oh! Dream on! Dream on! Dream

1\Jo. 60 (Fv~~ning) · R3lW6

on!

MR. DFCIO~R:

1\Jot)J, hon. rrH,~tnbl,~t·~; should l.i~;l:('!l'l l:o

t h::i s.

MR. MORGAN : A federal nreclm on!

MR. OECI<ER:

L ·i.b(~r·,'ll go v e r· nrn en t·.?

'Respect For constitutional obl·Lgdl:.:Lons. 1

MR. MORGAN : They n'dght get in tAlith Chretien,

but not wlth Turner.

MR. OECKEf?: NoL~J, li sl E!l1 to this : 'The Lii:H~ t"a1

P a r· t: 1J o f C"' n"' d a w i 11 no 1:. h o l. d : h t:!

people of Newfoundland and Labt•ctdor· li.<'lbl.e for Pr·::~rwi~-:H'

Peckfor·d' s slgnCJ.turE:~ rE:l Section

10, Subs(:lcl:i.on 1. oF Ut~::l Mc,lntOt'dndr.trn

of Unrhll"!;tal'tdjng whJ.ch rE:!lj!O!vc->.s

c .. ,n.:~d.:~ of· <·11.1. con~; U.·l:t\1: i.on<'·\l.

o h l. j g aLi on s t~d '1. h l" E-! s p 10! c t t o t h P

1\JHtlJFottndJ.;-aH.I f~;<l'i,l.tAJ<~IJ. '

r"'r· . ~-> p e:l .-:, k ~-~ r· , a positive spc,H~ch. T :insides out. not)J T am some hope.

1'-1R. MORGAN:

l:ITi. :; ·i. ~; 1'1 C) p f;! , 1". h d 1'. . i. ~;

IMclY t.o f>.rrd off t. h l s ~1<:·\ V El j U S [-. hH' n t. h (cl

of the agr·ee:,ment, and giving Newfoundlanders

You <H'c->. not g.i.v .i. ng CiHldda rnu c h hope. Not Lui th a Liberal

g o v e r· n tn e n t. , t h a t "i. s f o r· s u r e .

MR. DECKER: If I could go back to a former era

i n my l . j_ f (-'. ' M r· . s p (~ d k (-'. r ' l le::~ rH'I'H~ d

at one time that even the most

dE?.vastctti.ng ser·mon, no rnat·i-.fH' hot~J

negative it was, you should always

ler'IVO l:h(,l congt'€'!9.:-lt:i.on tJJi. i·.:h a b:i.l".

of hope. So I clTII try:i.ng .. to leave

1\h:~t)Jfoundl. <Htd:=!r's tAJ'i.l:h d b"i.l". of

hopP: 'The L iber·aJ Par·ty of CrHldd.::~ cotnrrri.l·. ~; :i.l:sc,~lr, dS a Ful:ttr·r~

I 3fi.()7 ;rune 21, 1988 Vol XL

govc::~rnmc-:!ni:, to affect an aurt~ndrnent

to l:ho Tr.:!r-rll!; of !Jn ·i.nn, ~)~~ct ... ion

31(a), to transfer Canada's

c:onst'i.l-.t.ll'. :i.on<:ll obl:i.gdt·i.on t-.o th1.::~

Ne~JfourrdJand Ra:.i.Jway to a new

Fr,ldC::H'dl obl. ·i.g .. ~l'.inn t:o tnditTl.:•ri.n the->.

Trans--Canada HighLAJay.' That is h n p f'! . !J~ f~ •-~ ·11 no ~; 1-. s 1:.\I)J t h 'i s P r· o v ·:i. n c t'! dE!VastatE:H:I.

AN HON. MFMBER: Transfer?

MR. DECKER : Transfer it.

. ? aga~n.

MR. DOYLE : Yf:!s, pleasc.;! do .

MR . Df::CKF.R:

11\lanl~ rnP t:o I"E:!dd i.t:

1 ThE! I. iben-tl Party of Canada,

t)ri.-l:h ·i.n wonHt:> of b:-~corn:i.ng Lhe

Government of Canada, cornrn:its

-i.t·.~; I) 1. r' .:~ s a Ft! tur'E! gov C'!r'tlHIG nt:' l~o

aff8ct an ame:~ndrrtE:>rlt t.o thE:~ Tc::,rrns

or lhl'i.on, ~>ec:L ·ion 3l.(i:1), 1".0

transffH' Canadct 1 s cons I :i: tut:i onal o b l ·i. g <:1l: ·i. on i·.o ·U1~-:• Net~ir ou nell. c.'t nd

RajlwHy to a new federal obl.·i.gdl·.·ion l:o rnr.·d.nl:d ·i.n t: l·w

Trans-Canada Highway . ' No wonder

1.: h «,~ M i. n is '1: r~ r· u f T r· r'l n s p or' 1:. i:.1 ·1-. i o n -;, s

laughing. I would laugh a]so if I

1)m r· f'! r•H n :i. s 'r: e r· of T r· ril n s p u r· t a t. .i. o n ,

because he knows we just sold

oul.:. f3u+·. he.;!, l:oo, ~>HC->.!; hope. He

if thE! first convE•rt. HE! is "Lhe

f i r· ~; I~ o n c->. t: o s (;! e h o p ('! , M r· . Speaker. He knows there is hope.

If the Minister of· TransportaU.on

tAJ<Hli:.s, J can hdVC.;! Uris cop i.C'!d and sent over to him and, if hE! LAJants,

IAJf.;! CrHl h<'lV(;! rneHib«-H'S of i··.hJs fJiH'l:y

avai]able to sit down and discuss

-Ll·: w'i.Lh h'.'i.lll, bc,lcausc,1 :it. is

important to the future of this

Pr'OIJ'i.nr:c~ l·.o 1.1ndo i'.h:~ tJJr•ong IJ.Jhl.ch

this particuJar agreement has done.

MR. DOYI.F: Y «:,lj·-- ~; (c' n r:l - 1: h <:1 i : o IJ c-:! r· n 01~1, b H c au s l'! I

No. 60 (Fuening) R3407

t~Ja n t to s c~~ e i. 1:. •

MR. DECKER: Listen to th:is: 1 The Liberal Party of Canada recogni.Les that the present financial compensation pH c k a g (-:~ 'i. s g t' () s s 1. y _i. n r:l d (:~ q u cl 1-. p . I

NOIAJ, thc-~t :is an understatment if C-:!U e r· I hc"HH' one, Mr. ~:)pE:!i:l k ~}t'.

1 Wf~ pledge"~ our· l!JOIHH'nnwn i: i:o l"c,:nHgo 1. :i<:ltlng d rnoi"C"' rc-:!al:lstic and t~qu · i. l:dbl t·~ F i. rklnc·i r·ll pdt : k<~(_:Jt,~ i-t) t' !- he pE·!Ople of li1E~ Pr·ou:i.nce. 1 Mr·. Spnd k ("~r·' {~ 1.1 'L s i'IO i: l .o ~;I rhnt'H :i :. ~ ; t" :i J J 1.-t ~; E>- c: on cl c h d n c E:~ .

Tl1i. ~: :is t. l' l("! best one, Mr. ~)pedkPt': 1 T hc-=! l. ·i. bt:!t'·~~l Pdr'l : y oF Canctda lnE::cogl'llze s that the pr·esent

MR. DOYLf: Can you do the same on Churchil1. a n d g r::~ i- a r· c·~ o p ~~ n o r· c l. r.1 u s E~ f o t' u s ?

MR. DECKER: Well -

MR. DOYLF : You at·t:~ metklng progr·ess 'i.f you can do that.

MR. DECKFR: hr.lUE~

COfiii'IIUrd.qU~! 011 that !) fH~ i:1 kt~ t' , b 1.1 l ·. when I

We di.d not

wiJJ dlscuss it "'p p r· o fH ' .:i..'l. ·h~ 111 i n ·i. !; l:t;~ r· .

i'l r·r:::cont i l':em, Ml".

gwl: onE:~, l IAJi th t: he

I T ~w I . ·i. b c;! r' ·~·d p i:'lr' l: y <) r c i:Hl d d ··~ r· c-!C: o g n l7.E·! s t: hat t he p r· e s 811 t F 'i. nr:HlC::i.r~lJ. COillpt)j')~;.:·lLion or ·1\lS m:ilLi.on for· cornruuni.ty c.tdjusini('!!TI:. ·i. !; l:ol: •"ll.y in.:"dequdl:e. 1 T i:lgt't,'f.} to~d t:h tlwru. InadequatE:! 'it :is, ~ s i. l-. not:? 'ltJc,1 C:Ollllll'.i.l: Ollt'SPllH:~S l:o l"NJE:!got:i.ai-lng this amount IAiith the pt'OIJ ·i.nci.dl. gouen1rnt::r1L, ·i.n C 0 1'1 S U 1 t i:l l:.:i. 0 n IAI:;i. t. h ·!: h 0 S e co11ununi. L'ies afFPc I·:Hd by t:h:=! closure of thC:~ ndJway. 1 Let Port aux Basquc-:~s. Bishop'~; Fi:lll.s,

L3408 June 21, 1988 Uol XL

Clar·C:~nuille, WITi l~bournf:~, 11adgt->.t', Deer Lake, all communities across this Prou'ince, know that tonight.

MR . MORGAN: We know what. is most important to ycm ('i.ndud:i.bl.e).

MR. DFCI<ER : I is ·ten to thi s , Mr. SpeakE!r. I am lr~.:~r·ni . ng soJnc,, i·: hi.ng nr,'I"J r'l].l. l'.:hl"! l::i rrJ(~. 1 Th(~ L.:i.bE~I"al Pal"ty of C ;ul o:l cl.:l l:n<J. i H IH' :; ·i. n 1-.l'w p r· i. n c ·i p J l"! of Lhe r·c,!cons l':n.lc t.j on of I h(:• T r· .u1 ~; .. c.u'li:l cl a J·l i. 9 h111d y . I" h '"' l.abr·adoi" Hi.ghway must also be:' con:; ·id~~r :~ d i:Hl Jni·.H•::Jt'•'ll. fhH'l: oF iHlY such highway system, and federal Funr:l'i.ng 11111~; 1-. be;! maclu r'\Ur'l :i1dbl u Fo1" :it s complE!tion . 1

I know Lhe hon. m(=!rnbl':!r' IAJ'.i 1]. want !) onltc~ J:)r'\dg(~S, lie 'I.:> go-i. ng i··.o IAJi:l nt some buttons . He is goi.ng to campd i.gn for· l:. h(:! 1. 'i.bc·=!r'i.~l.s. I do not blame hirn in the lE!aSt. I ThE! Liberdl. Party of Canada belleues that the phaseout of the railway 1

here 'i.s what T was saylng 1 must bE! done OUE!r a rn:1 nirnum of tJ..~Jo yt:~i:H'S subj ec 1': ~:o r·•~u .iel~l . The targeted closure date of September 1, 1.9BH ts compl.c->.h~J.y Ul'ldccept.abJ.r:-wi.th the subseqUE!nt, immediatE! d i. u ~~ r· s 'i. on o h l~ o UH:~ p r· o u inc i. a l highway system of aJ l presE~nt ra:il d 11 d F r· r,: i. g h l". c: Cl r· 1.,3 o . () s t h ,,, Sullivan report noted ten years r'lgO, t'Odd~; .:-~nd por·l :~; 11111~;1:. F·ir·sL·. be :improved bE::fo1ne E!X'LI"a tomld9E:' can bt=-) i.'lCC:OiflnlOd~' i:l~d ' I

r hdl)l'! i:o g~) ·i ·. l:lli.S one in, Mr·. SpE!akE::r: 'When Nc:!IAJfoundJ.ancl joi. n~}d c.~~ndda, on(~ oF l':hf:~ l ' r"1r·ms of Urdon was that the fed~>.r·al l.:JOIH~t'nlnE!nt·. l!JOI.ild rnr:-1.inb:1i.n the->. Nt!IJJfoundland RailiAJay. Ther·e J.s speculal'. ·i.on Hli:lt-. l'.ht=-~ N<->.~AJfoundl.and Gouernment j s considc:!ri11g 1

-· 1.\JE::J.l, ·i_t·· -i.~; i-\ facl:. nOIAl · r:l Ol'lf~ ·1-.'i.ifl(:' onJ.y cash payment from thE! fE!dE!ral gov~H'niiH-:!nt 1-.o r•epl.ace -i. l: IAJ:.i.l:: h a

No. 60 I

(Evening) R3408

h.ightlldy. Thr:~t·.

NPt~tfoundJ anders "i.t-. go1-~s on.

c h l) i. c l'! i . ~; to make . . . '

r l) r· and

Not~J, 'tl)ltt' tlonottt' hd!; jtts ·L conl!,~ to

the Cha. :i. r. My tirue :is about up,

dnd T. t~l.i. ll. jttst !;tllllrnar· · Lze:~. "t l:or·c,~

thf! :ins=ides out of t.hj~ s:illy

dgr,~e llt enl:, T. t:or·~ H t t=-) ·i.nsi d c~s out

of this seJ Jout. , but, in true

st yl.c-3 , T hr.\Ut:1 l. ef-1: Nl'i! t~Jfoundl.clnd e t':>

wit h hope t ha t when t he federal

gou e rn111ent ~H~cotrt~s l. .Lberal. , wh ic h

is wj thin a f ew mon ·ths , then we

tlLi 11 f i. x 1.: h e w r o n g a n d ull~ 1;.ri. l. 1 b <-:"!

etble lo stand up for Newfoundland

once rlgcd.n.

SOME HON. MF.MBF.RS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER : If the hon. he will close

~~R. DOYLE:

minister speaks the debctte.

now,

Mt" . SpEHlker·, I am ueJ~y pleased

:i . nclt,~ed

~1\1 liON. M::MRFf~:

No . No.

MR. MORGAN : Y8s. He was I"E:!(; og rd zed by the Speaker.

MR. WE LLS : On a point of or·der, Mr·. SpE!akE!r.

MR . SPEAKER: A point of order, the hon. the

Leader of the Opposition.

Mf~. WELLS: Mr. Speaker, member closE:~

did not start

MR. MORGAN: Yes, hE:~ di.d.

MR. W. CARTER :

hOW dOE!S thE~ d~~bat.c.;!

this debate .

the t1011J?

hon. He

No, hP did not. It j s not ~d.s

1.111-09 J11n~~ :?1., 1.91313 lJol. XI .

b"i.l.l.

Mf~. SPF.AKF.R : Th8 hon. min:ister· -

Mf~. WFII.S: T i·: 'i. :> h :i. !; b i. I 1 , d n d h f~ c 1 o s e d t h <-'!

debate on second reading.

SOMF HON . MEMBERS : No, no!

Mr~. WELLS: He closed the debate on second

r·~::~ad'i.ng. Thdt IAJas don~!.

NotAl, Mr . S p r::~ a k f~ r· , o t h t'! t' rn H rn be r· s

want to HOUSf'!.

speak on this sidE! of the

MR. MORGAN: Too bad! Too bad! The-:! r·ult~s of

the House apply here.

DR. COL.. L.INS: To 1: 1'1.:'1 i~ po-i.nt of or•der•, ~~r.

Speaker·.

MR. SPF.AI<FR: To l:hi'l (: po ·i.n"L of' or·ch!r', Lhe hon.

the Minister of Health.

DR. COI.I.INS : To th~~

be

the point of order, the hon.

I . (o~ i.'l d 0 t• !) f right in

Uw Qppos i. t :i on rnay stating that other

rno mi:H~ r· s wan ~~

t h Ed r· r· i g h t .

tlonot.H' tJJJll.

si. t down.

MR. DOYLE: No, no. I Spf~dkfH'.

DR . COL..LTNS: However, V.Je 1/JC-:! ar·c-:! no~

Clyde here.

~~ o s p E~ d k , •:'\ n d 1·: h i:'l t ..i. s If they gE!t up, Your·

a s k L: h e rn ·i. n ·i. s l~ e r· t o

was recognized, Mr .

have to be clE!ar that go'.i.ng by l:he rules of

If the hon. SpE:~a k er

s.:'lys 'TF UH>. rn"i.n.i.s hH' noiAJ spc,~aks

he cloSE!S debate 1, that is the

rule. U: i.s nol-. for· i:ht,~ Load('!r of

the Opposj tion to say, no, Mr·.

No . 60 ( r-: IJf'! l'l'i n g) R3lW9

Speaker, you do not make the rules r.n·ound hc;!r·r:~. [make.;! thE:~ r·ules. The Leader of the Opposition rectlly has to get down and do some study as to t>~that parl:Lame!ntary pr·act.ice i.s. You do not rnr:~b~ t:hr:>. ru] t:>.s. There are rules that you go by. You do not~ rrk1kE'! thH r·ules and everybody else go by them, UHH'e at'r:>. r·ul.E!~; rnadf~ H1at you go by. Now if you can get that t h r o u g h y our· s k 1.1 J. l . i n 1-. h .. i. s d e b <:1 i.e:>. , I~Je IAJill hav (::! ac hj.E:'V E:~d S OITH:!t:hi ng. r F L h n h o n . !") p H ''~ k H t' s i'l y ~; 1 ·i f l: h c=! nd ni sU:n· sp8aks now closes the d r'! b d 1::~ ; 1 U1 i:l l: -i. !; t h c,, r· 1 tl. ~~ . ~~ ~~ ;:-~r· r-~ par·J:iarnE:!ntar·:ietns he.t"e. That is th:) t'ttl.r-~ IAH~ go by. Wr;! do no L go by t h E' r· u 1 E'! , 0 h , n o , M r· . SF' c-• a k E.~ r , r. d fll g o i. n g l: o c h ·'I n 9 r'! Uii.-1 t r· 1 tl. ,,~ .:~ n d :r arn go :·i ng to say, J ant going to deci.dr~ hnt,\J this llouso I)JOt'k!;. Thi:1 ·L :is not the tAtay this Par] :i arne nt tAIO r· !< s . U. i s not: l ·Jw 111a y R r ··i L i s h P<·.ll"lir.lntc.;!nti:a·y Pr·acticE:~ :is. Could you pl.r:!t:\SC~ l:r·y J·.o undE:~rst:r.Hld '!.hat? BE:!cause if you can 1.1 1'1 cf (.;! T' S t. d l'l d 1: h d 1: , IAJ (.;! lA I .'i. Jl. 9 E! t d 1 () 1'1 9 a lot better in this House.

MR. TULK : To that Speaker.

point of order,

MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, the thE=! tnc:!rnb(H' for· Fogo .

MR. TUI.K : Mr. SpE:!aker·, rr~cogwi lr:>. the Tt"ans por·tation

MR .. MORGAN:

j r YOU I" Honour h on . Mi. n "is ~~ r,~ r·

He did r·ocngrl"i..'lr·~ Uw tn · i. n : i . ~;hn·.

r"'R. TUI..K :

Mr .

hon .

did for'

KePp your· cool not.1.J! l<c-!E~p your· cool!

The'! lfiE:~rtJb(:!t' for· lot' n r3 .:·1 1: M o u n h~ · i. n !; , 1-. hE:~ Mj rd s t.E:!r of Norther·n De v ~:! 1. o p II If~ n l: , I)Ja !; s L "' n cl "i. n g a n d t h (~

L3410 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

member for Port de Gr·ave was sl:ancling. Tf Your· Honour· did nol~ see them, I am surE! he wil 1 rE!Vert: to that. Your' Honour· knot.~.ts perfectly well that he is entitled to say 'If HH"! mini. s b;•r· sped k s now, he closes the debatE!, 1 but, at HH:~ s arne'! 1·: i rttE'! , ·i. F o 1-. hE~ t' rne rnb EH' ~; t.uish to speak -

DR. COLLINS: --·--·----( l:nrll.ldi.ble).

MR . TUI.K: HE:! tmder·slood 'l. hat.. He rosP on ct p o 'i. n t o f o r· rl ,.~ r· L o p o L n 1: i.i- o u r~ . ThP han. gE'nt·J E~rrtt'ln :i. s ou-L l:.o l 11 n c h . T h 1:! ~~-i. n .i. !; i ''! t' oF II~=! i:\ ll: h ·i s b<:'nE!ath h:irnsc~]f. 1-Je,~ :is :in Lhe mud .

SOME HON . MFMBFRS : rl'h·1·i: ·j_ !) r':i. g h t .

MR. TULK: It j s tj rne for him to gE!t up into p r:H' 1.- i. •'I nJ(~ n 1'. .

SOME liON. MEMB E I~S: Hear, hear!

MR. SPF.AKER: Order, pJ.ease! Order, pJ.ease!

MR. TULK: He 1s in the rnud.

Mf~. SPEAKER: - ·-·-I am prepared to rule on that p 0 i. n t'. 0 f 0 r• d ('! T' .

J cl i. d r· !'! c o g n ·i. l r;! ~~ h <:>. h on . minister. Tt is the minister 1 s b ·i.ll. , i:l n rl h ,,~ · i. :; c e r· i: d ·i. n l. y f:! n t-. :L t l. u d to c1osE:! thE:' dE!baLE:~. But 1:r;!r'i:i:l'i.nly '"nyborly !~tho hd!; no+: spolo:Hl already can certainly spE:~r.1k for· i:1 hdl.f hotlt', ·i.F Uwy so tAI"lsh.

r· f:~ cog n ·i. 1.. r,~ the h on . Mt n i . s ·I~ ~~ r· of Northern Development.

SOMF HON . MEMBERS : li (~ a r' , h r.:uu· !


MR. ~,Jf.IRRFI\1:

Thank ycn.1, Mr. Sp~:!aker.

(.)ft:E-11'' thP Jast. tiAJO days debating

L'. h n .:~9 r· r·'! emH n t L h i~ L h d ~; b ro1 r;! n

r· e a c h E~ d b y tht::1 fedE:!I"a] c:'.\nd

p t' n lJ ·i. n c ·i. "~ J. 9 o rJ r;! t' n nHHI L ~' on 1: h r~

clc-1rn::i:.e of the l"fl.:·iJwi:l.y, J must: say

T a til i.~ l.-i.l·. Ll.ro1 b ·i i: !)llr'Pt' i, !; r-:!d ;~'[: · i·~t~JO

pdl"'L:i.r.uJdt" :l.nc:iden·l:.s.

l .r.l st rl"ighl: I~JH s;~L ·in Lh·i. ~; Hor.tsl:!

fOI" 'l.lti"EH1 hUUI"~; ancl appi"OClChing

t~hlo1 ~;r-:!cond hour· -1-.on:i.ghl.:, r:ll'ld one-~

of t ·. hco1 rnajol" d,:ove]opmt::'nts :in this

agr·er->. IIHHJI·: IAJas Uw cornpl.c:d:·ion of

the Trans-Labrador Highway .

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar!

MR. WARREN: Mr. SpE~abH', nol:. onl.y cl.i.d l:hf:1

Lec~der of the OpposiUon not say

one word about: what t~Jr.ls :i.n ther·r~

for· Labrador, not on] y that, but

l:hc.;! tllf:'lllb<"~r for· Ndskdup·i. (f-1r.

I< E~ 1 J a n d ) IAlf-l s b E• e n d E! l :.i. be r a t e J y

;,lbsenL l.d~;L wi.ght dnd c:I:~J.:i.I:H'!t',:~l:r-:!J.y

a b s e n '1. '1. o rd g h l .

Nmu, Mr·. ~>peakE:1r·, tA.Jhy? I et us ask

o 1.1 r• !; c'! J.rJ r;! !) 1: h :-~ q 1.1 c-:> !; t: ·i. on I~Jh y .

MR. TUL.K : rl! r• , S p f:' d k C'! r• ,

Mf~ . SPFf.ll<r~ f~ :

A po:in'L oF or·cler·, HH:1 1nb~~r· For· Fogo.

Mt<. TU Ll< :

thCc1 hon. thE:1

I know where thE! hon. gentleman

wants to get. I know they want t:o

attack people on a personal

basis. I knotAJ l:.hey tJJant to cll-.:tack

as they have bN!n trying to do to

the Leader· of the Oppos i ·l·. "i.on on o<l.

personal basis because they have

goi: no policy.

Bl.lt. I IAJOl.lld r·t~rntnd, l·.: h~~ Spr->.akHt',

jf hCo1 hcts not heard the hon.

I. 3lJ.'J.1. Jtii'H~ /.1., l913B lJo l · X I.

g I:Hll~ l. HnJd 1'1, HJ;,,:-. ti·. i.s

u n p a r 1 i am e n t. a r· y to refer to the

•-~ b ~; e n c e o (' ;,, 1110 llli:H'! ,., F r· orn t.: he

HOUSE:!. I wou]d ask, the Speaker,

't: o b t' i. n g L h e hon. gc·'!l'li:.l.Ptnan l~o

or·der'.

SOMF HON. MEMDFRS : i·l c-:! rH' , II ear· !

DR . COLLINS: Mr. Speaker.

rJJf~. ~3PfAKER:

To that point of or·der, tht-:1 hon .

ti'H~ r-1tn ·Ls h>.r' of· Hc:1<.-\J i.h .

DR. COLLINS : Thc:1 hon. tl'l<:1 merub ('!Y' for· Fogo i.s an

experienced parliarnE!ntar·ian. We

have ki'IOlAJI'l hoi.rn for· rnany Y1':1rH'S in

this House. He USE!d to nE!VE•r g(d:

up on such fool. ·ish poi~ts of order

as that. Something has happE~I"lE!d

ovr:!t' thc,1r·r~ 'i.n l·:hc-) Jasl~ f,;'IAI rnont:hs

IAthich has even upsE!t . the han.

rnntrtb8t' for· Fogo. T do not knotu

u.Jha t it js. Anyu.Jay, some t h i ng

r· •~d i. c ;:t l l. y di. ff ·i.ctll.l: hi'lS hi:l.ppened

ov e r· lhEn·e and hopefull y j t tu :i 11 r: h r~ng0 . (1: ·i:; a fooJi.sh po 'i. nl~ C)f

ord er t ha t t he h on. member ha s

b t' <) I I 9 11 L I I p '

MR. SPFAKFR : To Lha 1: fH) 'i nt of hE:1ar l:hE:1 lnE:1Tncll''k,

p "' r· 1 'i. d HH:1 n t d r· y l: o

absence of an hon.

o r· d E! r' , I but j t r· (:1 r f'' r'

ITit::'rnber·.

d.i d :1 s

l'".O

not not Lhe

The han. the M:ini s t.er' of Nor LhE!I''I'l

Df~uul.oprnent.

MR. WARREN : Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

I will still say, Mr. Speaker,

t.I'Jr'l·l~ UH~ member· For· Nas kai.tp"i. is

noticed by his absence. He has

no I~ not Si:lY

been here l.dst night and

here again tonight. I

oi.l:, Mt', SpPd!<PI"'.

1\Jo . 60 ( r:: 'J r-~ n ·i. n 9 )

he ·i. s IAJi.l1

R3 '1-1. 1

MR. TLJL.K : Mr· . Spc,~akc,n·, '-'\ po"i.nl··. of or·chH'.


The hon. the member for Fogo.

MR . TULK: t"'r . s p f~ d k ~:! r· • d -i. d you h r>. a r· h :i. rn t. h d 1: time? He did refer to the absence of a l'nl:~rnber· fr·orn l::l·li.s 1-lousf~. C ask Your· l·lonour to br·ing hirn to or·d E!t'.

M R . ~) P E A K F. I~ : To t h cd. pot n L o F o r· cl ~~ r , t he h on . Tllf~InbtH' :i.~; qu·i. -1-.H r:or·r·c->.cl~ . t-.he hon. ruin:iste1ft shotJJ.d not IftE!fBI" l::o the o'lbSf~l'lc:t:~ of <:1 hon. lfiC:~IIIbr:or· •'lnd T tAIOlJld o.~• k him rro·l to do so.

Th~-:~ hon. Lht:~ M:i.n-.i.s 1-.c,~r· of i\Jor·thc:H'n !1ev~1J.opmc~nt..

MR. WtiRRfN : Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

T t~.Ji . l.l. nol:: r'f'!fer· l··. o Lhe dbst-:~tlC:f'! of the rnE.mlbE:!r for· Nas kaupi, hov.JeVE!r, M r· . S p ~~ i:1 k c·>. r· , T tAJ o u J. d l. ·i. k c,1 1: o s <:<~ y that it is very, very difficult, and I am IJJea.r·ing glassc,1s, but T. do see an empty seat over there which is USUcl.lly occupied by the IIHHnber for Naskaup:i.

Mf~. TUI..K: Mr. Speaker .

MR . SPEAKER : n point of ord~r. the hon. the member for Fogo.

MR. TULK : Oo not do thr·ough the back IAJhat: you ;..n·c~ not: ;.~l.lowc,1c:l t:o do 1-.hr'Ot.lgh the fr·oni. door·. Stop the hon. 91:~ ni: l.PIIIi:Hl 1'101~1!

MR. SPF(.)I<FR : Tn Lh<:1-l: po'i.nl-. of on:lr·H' , t h E·! M :i n :i :. 'l.c:!r' of H E~ a ] t h .

1_341.2 JunE~ .21., 19813

I.: he hon .

Uol. XL

DR. COLLINS: Thf-) hon . House,~ l..<:!ddE!t' of thE! Opposition gets up and makes somE! sl:i:ll:c-:nnc·Hlt:. WhfH'C-:1 :i.s hl.s r·E~fc::~rence for that. last remark? 'You cannot g o t o HH~ l:l d c k d o o r· . 1 I n E! v f'! r hE!ard of that referE!nCE!. Where is +: h e r· c-~ f f~ r· e n u~ ? ~3 o , .i g n o r· e i. t , M r· . Speaker. If he comes up and makes sornc·'! br:-1ld stai~~WH~nt., one does not.: haVE! to accE·pt that . If h~' does no 1·. C(UOh>. I"C·~F'fH'E'!rlCf'!S, OnE! c,:·Hl :ignore hjm.

MR. SPEAKER : l l:h·i n!( i.:hc'' I l: hink thE! j II :; 1-. Ulr' r· y de1.-ibN'Ct.i:::lon.

Mf~. WARRfN:

po·i. ni: ·i. ~; t•ll'! 1.1 hon . rrd.nis I:.E!I"

!) 1'1 lA I j t: h

Th . .ulk yotJ, Mr·. ~)P_f'!dktH' .

l~.dke n .

s h ou ] d h ·i.s

I agre8, cHid I thank you for your· t'tll. 'i. ng. HOI~JOUC'!r'' r-1r' . !:)pC:!d!<f:!t'' I must say I have heard today sincE• l·:ht:1 Hntlst:! c:l.osud a+: f:i.Vf'! o'clock, that a parti.cular· mE!fllbE!r' of !::Iris l f~g :J. ~; l.d LlH'H, b::! CdU s H l·w dgr·ee s wj.ti'J the agrE!BrTIE!rJt and tAli th ITIOI1E!Y for· l. . .:tbr·ddor·, bt:!cdu ~;e th.is particuJ ar member agrE!es v.Ji th the rnonc,1y thd~ hds bec~n al1ol::l:ed for transportation in Labrador and hE• dot,~s not t•Jant. to get. ·i.nto debate be causE! he wi 11 be going again s t h ·i.s par·l·:y, subsc'!CjUt'!ntly the hon. rn~Hnbc:!r' ts not hE~r·e.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: HerH', hE~ dt'!

r"'r~ . WARR[N : Mr. Sper.lker·, I cannot hE:~)p say-.ing l:hdl: bc.')C:dtl~>r>. il: ·i.~; a f<'lct l:: hF.• Leader of the I iberals has said UJ f:' lfleTIIbO r· r 0 r· l.i·d:n·r:·1d 0 r· .i. s a b s f'!rl t becCt.use he is for the ruorwy for l:hc,' lt'iHJ~; · I .~~br·ddor· ll:i.ght.~~<'1Y.

MR. TUL.K: II c,~ h •. ~ ~; r• ::! f f~ r· r· I'! d thr:~ nrember· agr.d n!

l: o i-. h ('! ,~ b s {::1 n c P of Sett:lr:1 dov.m!

No. 60 (F::VfHJing) R3'1-l2

MR. SPfAI<FR: Or·d~~r. pl(~dl>(-?.!

I hav e aJ r'eady dr·awn to t.he

cl "I~ t e nl -_ i . on thi:d oil.

of the-~ hon. rrrin·i. :;i:c;!t'

is not parliament.ary to

I' c~! f ( ~ r' i·.o t:hH db~;en~;c;! c)i- I".I·H~

IWHTI b ~H' , a n d h ~:! :i ~ ' FHH' s i s t ·.i n 9 ::i n

cl o i n g s o . [ r\ !; !< 1'1" i.m n o t t o d o ~ ; o

nrryruor·e .

TI1P hon. t he l'-1 :i. rd ~ : tel" of Nor·+ hE:!I"n

D f:! 1.1 :~ l o puw n 1-. .

r-1 ~~ . ~,J n :n~ F N : Thi-Hik you, Mr· . Sp e aker· .

T IAri 11. i.Ty to kc.~ c-:!p 111y COilliiiE!n h; d ~'

clear as possible without

r·ef'er·r·"i.ng to dny pdr· t.icuJ.dr' rn(~lllber·

i rr the Legislature. I hate to do

that , M r . S p E:~ a k e r· , be c a 1.1 s e I t.lri. n k

the member for Naskaupi is an

outstandlng gentleman, and the member· for Ni:lskaupi is in support

of the money for Labrador, Mr.

Speaker. The member for Naskaupi

s uppor·ts the HICHif~Y l:hr:tl: .i.s go-i.ng

t.o Labrador!

SOMF HON. MFMRERS : Hear·, hr;!dt'!

MR. ~'lf()RRFN :

Mr. Sp8aker·, thr..1t j_s a fact.! Nou.1,

t d o no!: knOIAJ :l f l : h (~ lriC::'I'fibc,'t' l,., ;~s

i-ll l OlAJPd t o come in Ol" no t , but' I

kl'lOI~I i-or· 0.·1 fi'IC:1-. l: h ::• 11 1!-~l'llbc,~ t · f O I"

Niol!:kiiupi s uppor·l: s l. l·1e moriE:!Y t:hi-Jl·.:

:i.s g o ·i. ng :i.nl:o l. dbt' ddor· .-1nd HH·)

Triin ~ - Labrador Highway .

SOMF HON. MEMB ERS : Hear, hectr!

MR. WARRF::N: Mr. Speaker, maybe the Leader of

the Opposi.t l.'on and h i.s coll e agues

can give the reason why he is not

here. I do not know, Mr. Speaker.

MR. DOYI.F.: He is an outstanding gentleman but

L34 l 3 J u n ~~ 2 l • l 9 8 8 Vol XI..

tonight he is out standing

SOIIIBIAJl'HH'f:~ (~l.SC'! .

MR . WARR EN: Mr . Sp:h'lkl-n· . i:l uJh i.J. ci! r.tgo , jus t

befo r e the l a s t budg et ,

11 nc.l:H'S l:.md l: h'" t·: l". ht-~ Oppo s .L 1: i.o n

Par t y had wha t you tJ. IOt.t ld ca] 1 a

br•r.l'i.l'l:) l:o r·m . rh cl I nl o:1 f1 I ~0 I sa:i.d

U1P budgc~t ::i. s going to conl-- a:i n,

i:l b C) l) e :~ l) f~ r• y 1: h ·j_ i l g r,, J s H I r'l ~; 1 u s h

f und f o 1" a n E!} c~ctj_ on. MaybP th·.:i. s

i:; IJ. Ihi:l\: ·i·: J'l'i. •;; I,1 Jr:\:; i·.ocldy . J: r.'llll

going to refer to other member s

dn d l:. h Hn ( ,,~, i. l l curno bclck l· o ,,,

particular member who made s ome

ot-:hc:>.r' cornlllHnt s ·i.n i·:l'ldl: par· ticu"l.ar·

c r.w c u s nH:' e t..L n g .

l ' hc·:! rnE:~mbr~~r· hHr·c~ Cdll.(~ d 1 J ·i.rn 1• I

d o no t know whi c h me rn be r tha t was

b u t he IJJCI s c .::~1. 1 e d 1 J i m 1 • He s a i d •

'Th i s gov e rnme n t i s g o i h g to play

g a mes '-"lit h rn u nic 'i. pal capl t a1

·gr a nts. 1 Ano t h e r member c aJ] ed 1 J ohn 1

: 1 No r' t-:l c::~J. !il ffor t tc> crea l: e

permanent jobs. 1 AnothE~r· rrl(!mbE~l"

c .:-1 ll. (~ d 1 8 ~~ d 1: on 1 -- j 11 s -!·. J. :l. s L c~~ n t o

wha t h e wa s sa y i ng . I t j s ama zi ng

1 ~1 h ~" <1: go ;~ !) l: h r• o u g h 1 i. t 1: J. <-i! k i d s

mi nd s s ometimes. 1 In a dequa te fund s

For l: r · a nspnr·t ;.~ ti. on , I cl nd no

me n U on of t he ra j l wa y . Mr .

~ 1 p ~~ •:t k en · , ·i. s 1: h ;H, no t-. s h a Hl t-i! F u J. ?

Mi" . ~)por.~kr:!r', T 1~ri.ll li.-lb le Ud s

bE-!Ci:lUSt:;) th:i S IAJi'lS in i'.l r'E!C~"l'll:

f~d · i _ t ·_ · i . on or thr::~ P·'lpur·, r'tnd

yes t- e r d a y l h <:l h o n . l e ad e r or li1 E1

o p p C) :;-i. :: ·i. on . '[ h i:l u ~~ 1 i. s 1·. en~~ d i: " i:\

tape f r o m h j s c onfer e nc e y este r d a y

a nd rl p p i:H' t ~ nl : 1. y h P. l ~ f t l: he

i mpression t hat our pr eRe n t

f'rt-i! lrl :i.e t' h ·~ S no t b ee n trc-i! a tl ng

Newfound]and and Labrador fairly.

T would think that "i.s a fair

impression of what. he left. I

ldQuld S i.~ IJ i . t i.s a fa l r· stat.emc,~ nt,

exactly what you said.

Just to show that the Leader of

t.hf~ Opposi. t.: i.on is no!:: the only

person in this Province who has

1\ln. ()() ( r: u f'! n ·i. n g ) R3<1-l3

~;orne->. idc-:!i:t of l;.Jhat t:he Prc-nn:i er :is do i. n 9 , 1··. h P. t' ~~ <H' ~~ s om e o t h t:H' p r,~ o pl. e who th:i.nk the oppos:i te of IJ.Jhat the l. ~~ ad H r· t h i. n k s . T I~ cl o r,~ s n o 1·. l·. "' k u VE:!r·y much to change your mind any hOIAI.

However, in yesterday's paper there WclS cl quotcltion and it talks about our· PrE!rni.c:H'. 11 He is tough, pr·oud l:o be,~ a NP.l.o~Jfoundl.r:lnder· dnd very proud of his Province of NE!l.t.Jfoundl.r::tnd and l.dbrddnr·, v~=!r·y proud of peopJe, and very bound and dE~ l:c'!t'HI.inc-:!cl l:.hal: l·:hH i.r For·t:unos IAJ'.ilJ impr·ove as they alrE!ady have undc:!r' h·is lf~adc'!l"sh-i.p.

11 I hopr:' you 1~J'i.ll. ~w l.o~Jd 1: dd ng ds ow" Province's good fortunes -i.mpr·out~ consi.dc'!r·.:·lbly ouor· l:hn nr'!XI: :.hort ll.lhi1E:! and I w:i 1] thE:1n be loo!<'i.ny for·I~JiH'd l:o your· IH)t'Y pos:i.t:iUE-! com111~:!nt·s :in the futurE:~.'[

Thcll cornrnPnt :is from an :i nd:i v:i.dua1 i.n l:h:i.~; Pr·ouincr.;! 1~1hn, l H1 ·i.nk, ·i.!; v EH' y p o s :it j v E:' about 141 hat. hap p ~:HJE~ d yHs l·.r,1t'd•·lY. T a1n Vt-:1t'Y pns.i. t: i. t.lt::! dnr:l vc,!r'y E-2xci ·l ed etbout: I4Jhdt happenc-:1d y c-=! s t H r· cl <:l y ~~ n d t .:~ m s u t' p t' t s ~~ d , M r· . Speaker, after· hav:i ng sat in the caucus over· . UHH'C:~ a nurnbr->.r· of year·s ago.

rJlr•. S1".(:~Vr-?.n 1\Jeary I d uc-?.ry pr·ouri.nHnt Newroundlander, a very popular p c,~ r· s o n 1~1 h o h '-'1 s s a 1·: a r o u n d t h e tabJe on many occasions and has tdl.h!d w·i.l~.h Mr·. r~orupkt-=!Y I Mr. Chr·et:ien and Mr. LeBJ anc, and all ttw rest of the,~ guys 'i. n 0{~ l::cWJi'l, say-J n~~, 'What U rnE:! an1 li.Je goj ng to gel:: r·i.d of t.hf~ r·d·i. ll.o~JHy?'

Thd l: l.o~JdS r.\ I. i. b(cH'r'll. piTi. lo~>ophy 11p unU J. yE:~stc-:!rday. Up until yester•d,'ly mor·ni.nq, l:hey I~J·Hlh:1d l·.o g~d dd of thE:' ra:ili.i.Jay! Jn fact, r"'r· . SfH~ A!< r-H' , UH-~ on l. y 1-. h ·i. ng 1.<1~1'i. r: h clli~llg~·~d thE-d.l" rrri nd:. wa~; the last i:I~H) I~H~ H k ~; I~Jh lc! n 1·. h ~~ I H i.HI r.H' 0 r· I· h r~ Opposition tAJOIJ]d gE:~t up - he-?. would

1.. 311.1.1~ :r 11 n ~~ 2 1. , 1 9 H a lJol. XI .

only g~~t one question a dclY ·-· h~' '~IOIJl.d .-~sk U1r:> Mi.n ·i.s ·l·.er· Transportation, 'What happening? Tell. us whcll:: happening. 1 Because he could find out whi'tt was happening ··

MR. DOYLE:

and oF is ·i.s

not

find noiAl t:hc-?.y ud.ll not all.otAJ me~ l:.o tell them what is happening .

MR. WARREN : F.x,':lt: L:l.y, bf~cau:;f:! out From thE! bi·~Cr:11.1Sr·:! you do unt:i.l E!Verything

MR. DOYLE: Thr'lt is right .

M f~ . W () r~ R EN :

he could not F'i.ncl hon . rnin :isl:E!I" ,

not usu~lly tell. i s final-:izNI.

You do not usualJ y do t.l·1dt. It :i.s no l: l. 'i. k r.' .J r=! i:Hl C h t' (,>t·: 'i. H n d Ol~ll'l .. i. n 1:: hE:' Starboal"d Quar·ter· onE! ttrm~. I can ~ > t0H LhH hon . l:hr:' lllf:~llll:)('!t' fr:w Foqo (Mr. Tull<) look:ing at rm~. bE!causc-:' 1'.1·11:~ hon. mnmbl'!t' k l'lOI.o~JS IAlhr'll-: Mr'. Chr·~~t:i c,,n l.o~Jantc,!d to do.

Dl~. COLLINS : liOI~J COIIl.d h(:! i<rlOIAl IAlhd{~ lAid:; tjC:J'i.nq on when it I..Uf1s not in The Sunday Express?

MR. WARREN: I F1nd this very amazing. Last evening, John Turner, after hE! lost thH by-election i.n Quebec, said the Conservatives bought: thE' ell~c l::i.on. f·loiAJ funny and hotJ.J tronic can thj ngs bE!, Mr·. :·:) p c,~ .:·l k r'! r· .

( should s ,·.,y l:o Lhe ho n. rrJE:'Inbr:~ r· for· St. John's East (Mr. Long) l:h.:'lt: f lo~kl!> offer•r,1d mor'H rnonE:1Y l::o s t a y IAii t. h the U be r a 1 s than thE! y p;:d.d ·i.n c~udJPC for· the by-... eJ.ectlon, but I li.Jould not do :it..

SOMF HON. MFMRfRS: Ht:~dr, hH<'It'!

~Jo. 60 (Fvon i.ng) R3414

MR. WARREN:

I had calls, Mr· . Spodi<fH', fr·orn Mr.

Romp key, Mr. Tobin, and the member

for· Fogo (Mr· . Tul.k), to nclme jus I:

three. Mr. Speaker, I u.1as offered

wor·e rnnnt:~Y H1cHl t~lr.l!> pd ·i.d for· thc:'!

by- elE:!ct.-ion ir1 Quebec to sta y with

+.Jw I. i . b~-:H'<::tl P,u· i::y.

tJf f~ . J . C IHn F. R : Hot.o.l much?

M~-3 lJ F f~CE :

WI1Pr'P I~H:!l"E·! ~.hey goj ng l· CJ gP'L :i l:?

MR. Wf\I~RFN :

'[ HI w; { ~; .:~ y <~ 1". h •.Hl k y 0 1.1 l··. 0 1;. h C:'

M-:it1:i.s'l.EH' of Jusi.:ice (Ms. Vet"gt~)

1~1ho j 1.1s L as kHcl I!JhHt'l:~ I: hoy t~Jc,~r't-:!

gering to get :it. I would say, Mr·.

Speab~r·, Uwr~-:~ "i.s a VEH'Y famou:.;

individual associated with the

Liberal Party. In f~ct, Mr.

Speaker, one of them took me on in

the l.ast 1-:ll.ect""Lon, ch<!ill.enged me

in the Jast election.

AN HON. MEMBER: Did he get d vote?

MR. 1/IIARfH:J\1 :

Yc,~s, in fact hr:' aJrnost got th€:~re .

H (;~ l. o s 1: b y 1. /. (i v o h~ s . 1-1 r,~ l.o.H'!rl t

c] use. Now, I do not know exact] y

thf:~ COS1: of l:hc,~ C:~l.t~c{: i.on [:O r"lr' .

lllloodwori h, but I must say, looking

'"I: HH"! r·r,'tr.lr'n:; <H' t·.l'w ~; l:d l:r:' rllfHll .s

fr·orn ihE' hon. gent]EHnan, h~) d:id

nol·. sp c~ nd IJCH 'Y IIIIJc: h IIICHll~ y . Tn

fnc:t', Mr . Speaker, hE-~ never spent,

~~c:c: or·di. ng l:o hi.:; :;t •. ~l:c-~ rn~Hll : , ;~s

muc:h rl!' I !;pen'! bu t I must say I

f i.nd :i.l: IJ8t'lj lHliJ SIJ o:ll !< l'li)IAJ 'i ng l:ha t·.

i hHre were f our· rooms in a hotel

b 1. c) c I< e ti For· i:I~HHll: y -one d.:~ y !; , p 1 u s

two heJicoplE-~rs tr~velJed the

corlst For· h.r.1enl: y - one days . To ,;u:Jd

it all togeth~r . especjally when

helicopters cost About $500 an

hour, weJl, however, the han.

gentleman di.d take:' HIE~ on and

unfortunc:1teJy, I suppose, for h]m,

a n d f o r· t u n a tt->.1 y f o r· t h e p e o p ll~ of

L3415 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

the district, I won .

Do you want. to say sornethJ.ng? If

yo1.1 l.r.Ji.~nl-. to Si:IY something you can

say it. I know you rnust be

~ll.lt' l:i.ng tlOI.r.J

.~or.IJF HO~.L._ __ r"'Er"'BE.~S :

Hc~ar, hear·!

M I~ . WAf~ fH"N :

bE'Ci:ltJsE~ I unclPJ"sl:i:-!ncl l.:hat yc1u

9•1\ Vt·) ··l l.r.ld'J l· hc·' lJf>pc~r· Chur·c~h · i 11 ctrld

you gave atJJay t he off!'rH>r'C::1. Whal

C·ll.~ll-) riO 'J OII I;.Jo:'lrl i. [: O g i . VI~ r;1 1J.k11j? f.

am :.tJrpri:.ed t he Leader· of l: he

Oppo s:i.ti.on t.r.JOIIld hc:tvc~ Htc~ gdll -

r.IJR. CA U.J\N: What is his opinion of you?

MR. WARREN: Il.o.JOuld- sdy, Mr· . Speaker·, to my

hon. co1league from Be~l1evue, hJ. s

op ·i.rdon of rne may bt~ s i.rniJ.ar· t.o

what his opinion is of the hon .

1rH:~rnber· for· B(:dJ.€:1VUt~ . Flu t. l~hen

again, Mr. SpeakE!r, it is almost

equal. to rny op·i.n J.o n of hi.111. ~"3o,

Mr. Speaker, it just shou.Js tha·t

unfortuncttely we get ct leMder of a

partic ular political party come

i.nt.o I: h : i . ~; Houst~ and r.\C r. r.J.S holy as

t hou . Mr . Speaker, to be part of

r.l go'JtH'mne n t that~ fough t

Newfound] and in the c ou r·t s, thi. s

~i. ~> u n r c;.H1l. . T t' ,., r.1l.l y l·: hi. n I< o •.t r

ruedi.a is not dojng the job that

1: h ·~ y ~· h C) Ill. d c.l C) • II Ci! f C) u 9 h ~~ i. 1'1 1:118

courts against Newf oundland h<:tvj ng

ol.r.HH~ r·sh i p l)f i : h c--~ offshon~. t

thjnk i ·t is rj .djcul(JUS that -Lhe

hon . gc-~ nl: l•~tn.:trl IJ.Jc ) ltl.d ·t: h .i.nk <:lbout

:it.

I just wandered away from my

i:op ·i.c, Mr•. Sper::tk c-~ r, bec:r.ws<~ I t.o.Jr.IS

referring to a particular member

for· l.abrr.J.dor·, and t C~polog.i.ze for

that . But in The Evening

Telegram on March 3, 1973 - 1

would like to go back to the file,

M r . ~:i p e ;;l k e r· . T Wcl n t to r· E~ ad t h .i. s

No. 60 (Evening) R341S

br.~C·"''s'~ l: hi.s i:; \Jl-H'IJ inh~ r·r.~:>l : i . nq. am ~; tJI'· p r· :i. ~: E! d l.. h :i s c-HH:~ n :in g '1.. hat a

f t' i . ,,. n d !) r ill i. tll::1 f I) r· ·-~ n l.lTlll:) 1·?-r' I) f y~'la.r·s, and ~;tjJ.J :is, l:ly the way, Mr·. Rornpkc,1y, I~Ji.-1:> !;·i. l: l:'i .. ng ht~r·,,1 !:hi.:; FHJ E:~ rd n g bu t he i s not here 1-. o n i. g h l: . H r:: h d :; o UH': t' t: h ·i. n y s l: o do, of coul~se. Thjs :is what Mr·. Rompkt-~ y sct·i.d -i.n h ·i. s H~o:-liden spc~ P.ch :in 1973.

He sa i. d , 11 I. d ~lt' .:~do r· n e c~ d s d g r r.~ ct t. dt~al of attE:~ntion 11

·-- now, I haVE! not SE:!l'!l'l t:oo muc h l·:oday fr·om the-:: Opposj ·Uon on Labrador - 11 and should have,~ a 111~~rnbe'" r·e;!pr·c,1senl-:·ing them in the House of Commons, a membl-::r· IJJhol.l.y dncl sol.,::J.y for· I <:tbr·ador as thE!.Y have in the Northwest Tarril-:ori.es And the Yukon . 11

In hi. s Ht<:~i .. lhHJ s pe;,~ d1 l:o 'I: he,~ Hn11 s ,,~ Mr· . Rompkey gaVE:' not:ice t .hat:: 11 J !;h.:~ll be ·i.nl:r•odi .IC i. n g i.-1 b ·i.l.l.. ·i.n l:h,,~ HousP to pr ·ov :i dH a rnPmber for I . i:l b r· .~~do r· -i. n ·i. 1-: :; OIJJn r· ·i. giJ l: :; o U1 d l: :i t ~; p r· o b J E'! rn s and j_ t: s poi. E>. n t j d 1 a I" e pti ·l: i.n U11:d.r· pr·opt'!t' pt,~ t · •;ptc' C 1-. i , lJt'~ . 11

Mr·. SpHab~l", Ml". RompkE~Y spc->.nt:, up unt ·i.l. not~l, I i.·.h:i.nk, ~;onH:~UJ ·ing l.i.kt'! f :i f ·! e E-Hl y ear· s i n 0 t t au.ra . The r E:~ 141ds a Royal. Comrniss ·i.on on l:ht,' €-!] E-'C:t or·a] boundaries. Ther·e were l-u.JfHl {·: y - thr e ~! or· l~t~H~ n i: 1J ·- f o 1..1 r :inter·ve,!ner·s at t:he RoyaJ. Counrd.ssi.on. The memb e r· For· Naskaupi tJJas onE~; the mE~mber for Eagl.e R .i.v1-::r· lAJi:lS one,~; l::h~~ tnewb~H' for Torngat Mountains was one; and many, many ot:her·s. Bul~. orlf'! WdS noticeabJ y absent f rom :int:E!rvening for Labrador· to hc:we :i.b; own Sf~ i:lt, Mr·. Rompkey .

Why IJ.Iou1d a man in his maiden s p e ~~ c h s a i. d t h ct 1: 1. a b r· .:1 d o t' n c;~ e d :; c-.d-.tentj on? I r·efer you, Mr. Spr~aker·, l:o l ~ hc,~ mon i . :~:; i:l'li'll: camH :in t oday fi"Orn C){- l ett.lla thl"oug h this gouHt' rlilll~nl'. h,,,r·c,~ dnd Lh,,~ Govf:'t'tlnlHnL :in Ott-i':lt-lii'.l, labr·ador· cl:icl get

I ?l-1-l 6 Juno 21, l.CJH/3 Vol XI..

s p~c~ c ·i.d 1.. i:\ 1·. 1:1,, n i· .i.o n .

r-1r'. ~)pt~i~ !< l~t' , C Ollk~ July 8 l..abr' eldOt' wi]J have its OIAJn St1Clt, if thE•t"e 'i.~; nol: ;~n Hl1-~cl::.i.on t:"lll.od bE'!For·e Ju1y 8 in Ottat.ua. Labrador IAliLl h o:lV t·~ :i. 1: :; 01J11·1 s ::: d 1.: . T rn us I ~ s i:t 1J "i. 1~. is thanks to the TTIE!rnbE!r for Eagle R oi. v or·, t--.he fll!::'fllbt-::r· for· Na s k au pi, and rnyse•lf and somE: tWE!nty othel"s, b u j·: .i t. i. s no t. han k s t·: o r-1 r' . 1\ o rn p k E! y .

Do you know u.1hy, Ml" . Speaker·? I c <::tn s ee l:he hon. rnc::1nbt:!t' f or· TwilJ.ingate looking at rnE: n01.v and I think hf:' is a individual. The

Uc'!r' .Y S 'i.nC E!r'c': rnembel" for

Ronavi s ta North (Mr . member for Gander (Mr . facl:, HH~ HIHinl:iC'!t' for· ask his brother and lAJi.l.J. [::dl hi.rn l:hf:~ Sdlfll-'~ go :i. n 9 l: o tc,, l.l. h :i.m n OIAJ .

Lu s h), th e Baker) -- j n Gander· C cln

hiS bt" OthE:r l:: h i. ng T a1n

T l·n,' r·,.~ .:-1 :; on l: lv-1 t: M r· . R o rn p k ('! y n e,~ v c:: r· , never supported the re solution -

AN l-ION. ME'MHER : ----------Y o u .:1 r· ,,~ tAW o n g .

MR. WARREN: t.llr·. SfH~ dkN', l e i'. lllP l·.(>.1l l". h e hon . gentleman, I cou]d namE: h:im foUl" pe->.Ofll.l~ IAJI'Jl) I£HH'P -jn my pt'(~!)(;I'JCI::~ whE!n Mr. Rompkey gave the rea s on IAJh y . T h c,~ r· t·'! as on ''Jh IJ tAJd s he"! U.li.'1 n 1:: ~>. d St. Anthony area to bE: par·t of t hE· new d'i s tr· · i . cl~ . . Th E: o nly t''l.':a s on '"'hy was because that was a L iberal s l~ r·onghol.d. f·fl,~ fi..gur'E!d one chance of winning that new seat wa s to h t:-1 \J r~ S I~ . An 1-: h on y par· 1~. of 1-:. he"! n E~IAJ di.std ct.

Now, if I arn wrong, I IAJou]d suggo~;t~ t:o U11->. hon. membc->.t' for· Gander ( M r . Baker) to as k his b r· o 1·: h :~ t' "i. f l:: h"' 1: J s cor· r c,1 c 1': and .if that is the rea s on tJJhy . Mr·. Spt,~d!(l~t·, 'i. f :r: dlfl IAlt'Ong on l:.his one, then I s uggest to him he ~; h o 111. d .::t s k h · i. :; b r· o 1·. h ,.,! r· '"' h y i. t:- tJ.J a s :it was decided Mr·. Romp key IAJOu] cl

1\Jo. 60 ( FV(!n·i.ng) R:~ 4-1.6

not go to Labrador for his own

SE~at? Mr. Spl-?.r:lkAr', h~H'<:~ in Uw report, I should say this, see the

m o n e y f o r· 1·: h f:~ T I" a n s -L al:n· <ll d o r·

Hj ghway, and see the money for the

RE!d Bay Roi-1d. Mr. !)p(~·~ker·, just:

having come,, back fr·om Labrador :in

1:: h {~ l . d s t c o u p l . r=• o F d <:1 y s d n d

hec-Jring Lhe corrrru•~nts I hear·d up in

l. d b t' d d 0 r' , fJI t' . ~) j:H~ <:\ k H t' , l d Ill V I'! r"y ,

~H:!I"Y tE:~n1p·l E:~d.

ll. "' "1. J. t!] P C ·[ :i. Oil dHpr,,nds

d t:. pI'! l'l r:l ~; o n J~; call.r!d.

on IJJh 1:' ll l:ha \ ~

I~Jhl:'l'l It s (~ i:l 1:

l·h::. d]J.

1. !;

:r t· a l ] d •~ p P n d s 1.1.1 h P n 1: h E:! H 1. r:• c L i. on ·i. !; c •-~ ll ::.d, .:ulrl

d E~ C ] iH' fl d . f 1,~ d ::. r· • -~ 1 unl!i:'SS l.d bl"i'l.d or· c;;~n get bE=!tter·

t'HPt'f:'SHrll'.dl ·.·i. on l:h<:\l'l l'.hi·:OY dt'l:~

gEd. ·l :-i ng notAl, J i~\TII go :i ng 'l:o ] ool< cd·

U: ver·y S!·H'.iOIJsly, l h:.ll. you !".hal : .

Mr. Speaker, let me say to the

h on . thE! 1nernbN' for· ~)1: . fL:·l dH>. ( Mr· .

Furey), I t.uould th:i nk there are a

coup 1 e of o 1:. her· m~Hn~HH' s .in

labrador who are a little bit

s c a r· l-l. d . T b ·~ 1. 'i. (-'! v l:' 1:: h ~::~ rn ern be r· for·

Fagle River (Mr. Hiscock) knows

IAJhOS('! h"i.s oppOI'lE!nt: I.1.J"i.ll. br-'! Ln t.h(o~

norrri na'Lton. He a1so knot.~-Js who our

candi.dal:e is. Tho rnetnbHr for·

Naskaupi (Mr. l<eJland) knows he is

i n t r·o u b l (;! b e c i:t u s e , · M r· . S p e a k e r· ,

evl::!n today they <'.Ire not standj ng

up For· 1-:hf:! IIHHH:!y i:he\l·. l.o~Jr:. got fr·orn

OttC~wa for the Trans-Labrador

Hi.gl·li•JdY. :-if:Or'l'! l" 0 lAJ i:tr I d I'H:! :i.-1 h EH'

h ,,, u :~ •; ,., i. d u n 1,~

lolli"Otlg?

d r· I'! I:I;JO d '" 1J :; ·i. n "' onE:! of the.:> rnE~mb(o~I"S

IJJCll" d I ~\1 h ;_~ ·1-. i. S

TilE! l1011. gNl"l1E->rn<HJ s<:d.d, ':i-t ::is a

p ·j. [· [: 0:1 1'1 C !~ . 1 ~~ h lj d () Y I) II rl () l: 1-. I'! ll.

thE~ peopl!i:! :in 1~(-!d Ray t.~-Jho <H'e

yo·i.ng 1-:o gwl: HH,dt· r·oad pr:ttJc~d l:hi:tl:

it ·.is p::it+ance. M1n. Speaker,

i·.: her·~"~ ·i. s UH~ s d nH,~ h on . 9 o n l·: 1. ~~ llt.'Hl

who neuer carne into this

go v r~ r· tlllll"! n 1·. or· as kf~d Hw M·i. rl'i. s h>.r'

of T r· an s p or· tat :ion ( M r· . 0 o y J e ) l: o

gr->.1-. a r'odd F1~o1n Dorn:i.no l:o HJ.:1ck

Tickle. That is thP sarnE! member

L34-1.7 Junf>. 21, 1988 Vol. XL

1.uho nE!Uer euen requested it. Then

hl->. mi:\kE!~; a phon~::~ call i.nt.o B1ack

Tickle and says, 1 I arn so proud CllE:'

h d v I·'! a r· o •~1 d F r· o rn R 1 a c k r i c k 1 e t. o

Domino. 1 Mr. Speaker, there you

90. T 1nust SdY UH'! J.~~l::h=!r' l.o~Jril::l::en

to mPmber for Eagle River just

ShOL•JS hE~ l'l(!Vt'!r' hdd 01'11-'! 1-.·.h·i.ng t:o do

w:i t.h getb ng t.lw r·oad from Dom:i.no

l:o flldck T·i.c:kl.E:'. ::;o, Mr'. Sp(!dker·,

you can see IAJh cd: hE! :.i. s say ::1 n g j s a

p ·i. l: l · ,:~n c:c'! .

Ml". SpE:~akE:~r, if thE! hon. gent.] ~:·rnan

r: o 1 1l_ d h.., tJ I'! t' !'! ,., rl :: h 1:! p"' p !:'! r· ~ :; n n 1:: l1 e

IJ.IE~E~kE~nd, l:.E~r1cl(:~r·s Cli"E'! Cetl.lHd f()i''

lfk1j Oi'' i.Jnpr'OVI·!liiUill:•; \-.!) l:h::. r'Odd:; ·j_n

PostuilJe and M~kkovik.

SOMF HON. MfMBFRS: H ~:! iH' , h c-:! ;:n· l

MR. WARREN: Next yf,~<"~r' 'l:h~H'e u.Jil1 b1::~ mot'(;!

improuements to the roads. Mr.

Spec\kr-'!t', t;Je r~JlJ.l cont:i.nUE:' to do

so. Not only that, on top of thE!

construct'i.on that is already

happening on the Trans - Labrador

H i g hr.ua y , UH->. rn :i. n .is l:. <H' announced

today another twenty kilometers.

I was hoping to get the t h;:l t ·1·. h r,~ nH~III~HH' For· t h <->.

Relle Is]e (Mr. Decke!r)

communiquE· S l~ r· d :.i. t of read thj s

~~tJI'!I'l·i.ng. l ,n .. i.s~;pd sornH of il·.:. Hr:'

IAJas saying t.uhat the I. iberaJ s wet"E•

go·i. ng l:o do.

f.llr·. ~1pt-:~··1 k C!r', construction

y o 11 c: ;,, n no 1·: d c c H l I'! r· d 1:. ~-''

more than has been

rl one 1-.!·d ~; yo ;:n· : '( o 11 c iHl not do d n y

more. The equipment, the

lfkHlf>OIJJcH', l:hH llldc:l·l'i.nc!r'y, ncd:h"i.ng

is clva::ilable to do any rtiOI"r~~ :.i.n

Cr-~nLr·al. l .i:lbr·;:ld!)t' r·.han IJJ'i. ll. bt>.

happening this year·. It. is just

·i.nlposs·i.bl.!,~ t-.o do dnynlor·c~~. Tn

fact, Mr. Spe_a.ker, j t is happE!ning

so 1nur:h rlOIJJ, i:hr-~ l.ack of

ernploymE!rlt or· thE! Jack of peopJ E!

to bf,~ '~rnp l .o y eel UH>. rc->. ·i. n 1: hE! 1 abou r·

force, thc1.t IAJE! had to go to

No. 60 (Euf~Wi.ng) R3 417

SouthE~r·n I i:lbr·adOI" 'l. o gE:~t peopJ e to COiriO "i.n .

(li\J HOI\J. MFMBF::~ : Import labour?

MR. WARRFN: Yes, lAIC! lv~d l:o ·i.mFHH't: labour· ·i.n l:o I dbr·adcn··, Mr·. SpE:1<:J.ker . In Goose flr'11J J.r:·1sl·. IJt'!iH' you hdd i:_o :irnpor·l: peop] E:1 j n. Peopl E>. had to go j nto Goose lldiJ, Mr·. ~'ipr.~.:~kf'!t'. ln fac:--_ , I got jobs for· a numbE!r of peopJ E' l:o go t:o Coosr::' flay l·:o IAJor·k I:H:1CdUSH there was so much work to be done.

MR. HISCOCK : A poJnt of order, Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER : A point of order, the han . the member for fdgl.e Rtver.

MR. IUSCOCK : The ITIE:!fllbE:!r sa::i_d that Goose Bay has t-. o i _ 10 p o r· l: p t:1 o p l ~) a n cl h 1:1 1~1 d !) p r· o 1.1 c:l of I:Hdng able -Lo make r't:1pt't'!St:1nl:al: :i.on for· pnople l:o gt:'L jobs. What ::is -l he lJrlE-!mpJ oyrnE~nt in N ,., i n , M d k k o lJ' i_ k i:Hl d P o s 1: v i. ll. n , .::~ n d holAJ rnany c'>f' ·l-hE>.m wer·E~ t ra:i nE:1d t:o go i. n t:o t:he job!;?

MR. SPEAKFR: Order, pleasH!

T h e r· e "i. s no p o "i. n 1-_ of tH' d <'! r· .

ThE! hon . l::hE! Mi.ni.st:er· of Nor·l:hf'!Y'i'l OE:~velopment.

MR. WARREN: I clln sur·e, r"lr·. Sp(:1C1ker·, ther·e is no point of order there. The hon. gentll->.ITicHl asked ffiE:1 d question. I 5 hould 5 ay to htrn, the IHH:~Iflployment in N;,d.n, Postv:i.l.le, Makkovik, Cartwright - not necessctrily Cartwright 8l~ck Tickle, William's Harbour, Fox Har·bour, ~)t. l.l:!l~ris, l.odgc:1 fl-:1y, CharJot.tetown, and Rigo1et, nal:Ut'r'llly l:hr.:!t'f~ ·'lt'r'! d l_o(·_ or

I 341 B J lHI E! 2 ] , J. 9 8 8 Vol XI

people there looking for work. rho:1 1: -i. ~; U1t,1 t'f~dStHl' Mr· . Spf~clker·' that last_ year I got a number of p:~opJ.t:1 i"t'Ofll i:ho!;c~ CtHIIIfll.ll'd 1: i_- w; i-:0 go -Lo Goose flay t o WOI"k . That is '~Jhy, f"lr'. ~:)p:~.:~knr·, t: got-: pHuplH 1--_o go to IAtor·k, because thE!Y cctJ J E·d rne o:lnr"l dSl<Hd t:Oiild T f·ind jnbs for· them, lJJhich l djd .

So, Ml". Speak E:1r, I t~.Jou] d ] .i k ('! to .:~ s k (-: h !:1 hon. gt-'!1'1!-'.-IHtnr:-ln: i·IUIAI lrli:'tlllj peoplE! did hE• 9E!t f , .. orn h :i :-~ d j_ s I~ r· ·i. c 1:: !:: 0 g 0 (-: U I~JO I" k i.n Coos t~ Bay?

Ml~. HISCOCK : They are independent people and can gwt i_ t_ on l~ht::! i. r· OIAJI'l.

MR. SIMMONS: Tht:1Y tf>.l.l. 1flt:~ -1--_ht!t'e is unemployment in Hebron.

MR. WARREN : '( (~ S , r11 r• . ~) fl C:1 .-~ k 1:1 t' , u~ T I~J d S

Cabinet for· only ten ciEAys, ll.JOIIld be /.c'!t'O unc~lnpl.nyllll-~rH--. too.

MR. SIMMONS:

L C-H' 0

·i. n l:hf'! l: hE! I" C:! t_ ht! r'e

Yo 11 ;~ t' ,,~ go c d for· 1: he c ,:-1 b i_ n ''! :: . You have the wood :in aJl the right pl;:l t: (~ !) .

MR. WARRFN: r•k. ;:)pf:1i'lb~t·, l~Jhi'l(-_ d runny rlli'Hl ft'OHl Fortune ·-· H(:H'rnitag~1, lAiho solei off !·: h n ~~ o u 1: h Co "' ~; t: ! M r· . ~3 p l'! d I< C'! r· , I must say to my colleague, 'How t r·u e ! 1 T h l:! r· t->. i_ s a s l: o r· y ''' b o u i:-_ a Ne1.1rFoundlande!r gcd ng up to thE! 1nainiand c1nd IJJhC'!I'l ht->. gets h"is l·:en weeks hE! COITIE!S back bE!CaUSE! hE! has hi_s ten 1~Je~1ks sh::t111ps. Tht! hon. member for Fortune - Hermitage, tJJhf:Hl he had ten ddys, he-?. though-!: he had ten weeks.

SOMF HON. MfMBfRS : i'IP•:lr', hn<H'!

r~R. WAf~REN:

No. 60 (Fvening) R34.18

I s y u1pr.1 1·.1-ri. z E:~ w-i. 1.: h l~.i·H~

gent] eman. You hc1ue to get

weeks in orJer to qualify.

Mr. Speaker, you should try to

your ten weeks first.

hon. ten So, get

I knotJJ T only hr:1Uf! f-i.Ul'! 1n.inul':es

1.eft, Mr·. Speaker. I am sur·e

r·.i.ght. c:tft:E!r I c\111 fi. nish~~d • T. i<nOIAJ

tAJho the next speaker :l.s, Mr·.

~)pt-~dkc:~r·. I:H-'> Cdl.l')l·>. r sor· t oF C:Oc:·1Xed

ldrn out of 1-J"i~; seat. HE:~ hcAs Lobe

l:h('! nPxr. spP•:lki:!t', f"'r· . ~:)pr'!dlu!r·.

bE:!Ci;lUSE-~ tl·1c:! rnE~rnbE!I" f(Jl" Naskaup'.i

unfor·l .. _urh~l:ely, For· •>IJlfll'! t't'!d!;on, i. !;

no t· h E~ r P , et n d i. h e r· e :i s o n J y o n E:~

o U·11:~r · Jll:~lllbt-:!r'

Mr~ . !1 P f: ()i<Ff~ :

0 1" d r:~ l'' , p J E-! •~- ~; e !

I ;., s k t-. h.:! h on . nri. n ·i_ !) 1: "' r i 1 o -t-. -t-. o

r·ef~r to the absence of rnembE:!r's.

T uJo 111 d b c:'! o b l. :i. 9 r-Hl · j_ F ~11:! 1~10 ul. cl do

so.

MR. WI)RRFN: Thank you, Mr. Speakc:~r .

Thr.lt :.is four times

So 111 e t l me s y o u g E! t d r· a g g t' u fray, Mr. Speaker.

tonight . lnl':o the

I v.Jould 1ike to say, Mr. Speaker,

I c:lnl sure ~lf lE:H' ~:he las I-_ tlAII::'!rl ty

minu ·tes ther·e is only one member

On the:<~ I~ S :i.cle l'lOIAI IJJhO IAI"l l.J.

dr:~fin:ih,ly foJlotAJ mr:>., i'.Hld stand up

for· i_;:·lbr·ddor· i~; 1~1or · l·h l".o th·i!;

Pr·ov:incE:~ and l.abrador is t.1.10rth to

1-. hn r·r,~sl : or c.:'lnddr.t, -i. l~ hr.~s l:o i:Jp

i ho ru~~mber for· F.agJ E~ IUver. It

h d !) 1:0 b H b ~~ C d II S 1:~ l-. h H t' 1:~ -j_ !) l'l 0

oti·Wl" lllE:~nd:H"l'' OVEH' 'l.hE~lnE~ fr·orn

l.dbr·;,,dor·. r1Fi:HJ'' lilt~. UH~r·c'! ·i.!; only

0 n E·! ITIC->.Hil:H·'ln J E:! rf. 0 UP r• -[_he r• P f r Ortl

I . d ~H' i'l d!) t' . ~., t' . ~) fH:1 d !< 0 t' j T •'I HI •; II t' (~

the mHmbE-lJ" fr·om Fag10! is goJ.ng to

b1:~ l:hr:~ ne:~x1·. SfHh:lkl~r·. Thor·r~ ·i_!; no

choice.

Oh, bad

M r· . S p r,;! i:l k 1;! r· , l. o o k ! H e -~- !> a s

i'..IS thE:! ruernber· for St. John 1 s

1.3 '1-19 June 21., 1.988 Vol. XI..

F ,_., s t ( M r· . L o n g ) . lh=! ,,~Ji . J.l l E~ i'llJ H cl s

soon as the pressure gets hot. I

am sur~~ UHo~ hon. me1nber· for Eagl.e

River (Mr. Hiscock) wil1 be thE!

r11~ x 1: s p tH-l k (:1 r on I~ h d t s ide . After·

him, who e1 se is going to stand up

Fur· Lc'lbl"<!ldor, -iF l cannot 9C'!t. rny

three colleagues to help rne?

SOME HON. MfMBERS : li~'!t.H', h~'i'H'!

r.IJ f~ . W 11 R f~ F N : Not.1.1, Mt". SpE:'akC'!l", I n ('' E!cl rny t:llt"ee

c I) l. l ( ~ i:l 9 I I H !; L I) h C'! l p Ill u .

MR . SIMMONS : Mr . Speaker, a point of order .

MR . SPEAKER: 0 r· d e r· , p 1 <~ r'l s r:1 !

A point of order, the hon. the

IIH~Illbi:H' for· For· l : unr:~ - H•H'rn:i h·l9l'! .

MR. SIMMONS: M r· . !' p ~~ a k e r• , I r ~ f e. r y o u i: o

Bea uch esne. p age 103, Paragraph

316 ( c ). an d Mr·. SpedktH', you IJJ i 11

notice there, a s my col] _eague fr·orn

Fogo has rn e n t.i.o n ed, ycm CcHJnot

refer to the ab sen ce of s ped.fic

members, but t: h e r· <~ is another

exclusion in (c) that it is

l .lrl pi:l.rl. ir.l. men b~r y fo r· cl. 1nernber i. n

speaking to refer t o the prE1sence

of !> p <:1 c: j_ f :i. c Ill!~ rn b 8 r s . Hi s

co n sta n ts references to the member

for· r:;;,.,gle r~ :i . v c,n · .~re al. ~ o

unpar·J. :iamentary.

J got off t h e train there for a

r :wl nli. l' ll li: ~):) , r. hi~d 1:1) 91) ou l: s .i.dl~ ,

but Mr. Speaker, I tAI:is 11 he wouJd

gc-:l l: '·' l . ll: l: l.<-l b ·i. l: r·c~ l.·~vdnl: . He has

a few mjnutes left. CouJd h e g:.iu e

11 s l:h o bc·Hl~l f · i. 1 : of ~l'i. !; Udn!<i.ng on

the wisdom behind thJs marvelous

!) ,,<1. 1. 0 11'1: oF l\h~1~1f ou nd 1 i:Hld 1 !;

int:.erest.?

· MR. SPf()l<lR: To that point of order. I have

No. 60 (Eutndng) f~341.9

already drawn attention to the hon. mJni.sl:c,H' <.~boul: r'E:'rr~n·i . ng l:o the-~ absc-~nce of horr. mt:1mbc.;!r·s. In r· f~ g a r' d I: o 1.: h f~ p r· c,1 s e'1 n c o o i- h o n . rnE~mber·s, euEHI though it i!; 'in Br,1dUC:hesn~~. ·i.n Ollt' pr·e·~Cf:\de;\nl:·;, I.•JH <H'E' Y'E-!fE!r·r·i. ng ·to han. memi:HH'S d] 1 l·: he,~ l:'i.111e,~ .:-~nd c;:~J"i· .. 'li.nly T C:iHli'lOi: SEH~ t.hE~r·e j s Cl pcd nt of or'dE>r t: h f:! t' ,,, .

The hon . l·.he·" M"i. n-i.s hn· of l\Jor·i'.h:'!t'n DeuE:•] oprnent . .

MR. WARREN : Thank you, Mr . Spedker .

I haue one minute left, and Mr. S ~H:' c:~ k ~~ r , t h i'll'll< .Yo 1.1 u c,1 r· y 101.1 c h . T n my cJ.osjng rernar·ks, I refer back to IJJ h a t 1: he h on . rn ern be r· F o t' Fortune .. _ Hermitage· said, 11 What is ~:he cr·ux of t.h1:1 whole th'i.ng? 11

r.llr. Sper.\kt-H'' UHH'e clre fol.lr members fo1" l.abrador and therE~ is s om,~Hd ng l. i. k I;! 'r30 m i.l.l. i. on go i. ng :i.rrto I abl"i:ldOI". I 1~1ouJd th:i nk, j n r:lll. duo t'::\Sf>C'!Cl'. i'.o -1-.l'lf;\ llli:\lfl!n~r· For· MEHdhE:'k, 11.1ho :is not aJloiJJed into Uri.:; H () 1.1 s I·~ .~d: 1: h"" p r· p ~; e,Hll'. 1: ·i.JIII'! ' r

11.10 uld e xp E:' c: t 'l hen'~ wou J d be enough de,1Ce·:\nc:y l~ri.l·:h the,1 o 1-.1-wr· ·1:1)10 flll,~rnbe)7'!) to at Jeast stand up and support: 1:1-H~ JfiOrH~y !·:hat .is go ·i.ng ·i.nLo l..<'.lbrador·.

Tl1c~.nk you ~IE:'I"Y much .

SOMF HON. MfMB F 1\S: Hear, hear!

MR. EFFORD: Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. t.he 1r1c:1rnb~H' for· Por·t de;! Gr·aue .

MR. EFFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MFMRFRS:

L.3ll20 Jun~ 21, 1988 VoJ XI..

Hear, hear!

MR. FFFORO: Yr~!; i'.r,~r·eli .. 1Y mor·n i.ng t~J~HHl T hdd, not: I hE:! oppor·tun:i ty, but- the di srnay to l. ·i_ ~; l:f,, n i-·i T' !; 1-. 1-.o 1·. he,' !) 1-:. o:'t t.L-:!IIICHl 1 ... S rlir.lde by the Pr·eruier· of Lhis Pr·ou i.i'Jc : U oHld 1-.hHn 'l:o n :! ;·\cl !::he agreement-. he had signed l;.rith h :.i.s r H d I·'! t' ;-) l. c ()II i 1 L u t' p .:'1 r· I: s ' h .-i ~; r 0 I'' y buddies ·ln Ottawa, to SE!11 ouL any hope"! l\le·'!l;l(~otlndl.o:tnd had for· Lhl::\ f u t u r· e j n any d E:o c P n 1:: rno cl e of l·:t'dnspor·l·.at:·i.un, ·it: t•Jas LI·H:o 1no~:;l:. disgusting thing anybody could poss"i.bJ.y ht:!dt' 'i. n Lh ·i.s Pr·ou ·i nee;! .

SOME HON . MEMBERS : l-1 C.;! ;:n· , h 1:1 a r· !

MR. EFFORD: When I read it, I read it ovE•I", iHlcl I r!'!dcl i . i-: OVIH', and st:.i.ll. I could not bE!lieue what I lAms r· 1,~ ad -i. n g ! :'H. 1. t:\ a s L 1·. h r· c,, H t: i rn E! s wh:i.le sitting at my desk I LUI"ned ~~ o rn y c: o l. 1. e,~ r:~ g 1 1 f:' F o r· G d n d e t·' ( M r· . Rakc,1r) and I said: Is th::is fact·? T !i 1-. h·i. !) i:l c 1: u H11. y I•Jho.-1. i'. 1·.: l'lf'' P r· (o!ITI i. f'! r· of Uds Pl"oujncE!, thC"! Lighting N:'!l~irOIII'lrll.;,lndor·, 1-.he-:o rrlo:ll'l ~~Jho Sdid he would stand up for the Province i·ll: i:l ll. c: o !) 1: s , i, !) 1: h 'i. !) I.1Jhi·\ 1: h f'! h r:,ld taken from his Tory budcli.c,!S? Is l:h·i.!; di'l ·i. l'lSIIl.t l:ho:1l': he) h<·ld l'.dkf'!rl, a caSE:! of ·the FFTs, a Cclse of a e: o rn p 1 o 1: n ·i. n s 111. l'. 1·. o f'! lJ H r y l··'t s 1-. human bE:~i ng in this Pr·ov:inCE!, r· ('! g o.'l r· d l leo ~; s 0 F i·: h H ·j t' p 0 1. "i. 1·: 'L c c\ 1 Fa IJ o u r· s .

Mr. Speaker·, the money corning into th ·i. s Pr•oui. nc:1~ IAldS '!>'1·0 m-.LJ.l .. i.on a ye•ar· dE:~ficit, $30 m:ill:ion c~ yE~i.'lr t' o a cl r'l g r· e fHfl e n t s I~ o r P b L1 i. l. d t h e Trans-Canada Highway, $70 milJion therf>.. '[ 1m~an, $70 m:i.l.lJon ovE?.r fifteen ye1ars is $1 bjJlion, $50 mlll.i.on. What d ·i.d LlH:1 get:? $4-00 million .

MR. TULK: WhHre is the $1 billion?

No. 60 (FUE:Hdng) R3420

MR. EFFOlW: Th~:! $4o'-rrri 11 ion def:i ci-t they are

$30 the $'10

pdying For the railway, rnilJion a yeaJ" to built

TrrHIS ·-CancH.Ii'l H i.ghi.IJ<!ly, i.s

mill:ion for· fifteen years . Forg~1t

c:l b o 1.1 t l::.i·H~ S e c o n cl cH' y Roads

Agreement, forget about al] the

o'l:hE!r' dgr·c~t-'!lflf:!nl:s, thc:~l~. i. s ~; l

billion For the next Fifteen

yc:!ar·s.

No•~•. i·. here ls no 1: on(,' membtH' of

that gov ernmen t, no t one spe!aker

fro1n i: ha l: si. dc~ to~.Jho hc:ls s i':oo cl 1.1p

and addr~!:ised ·t he :issue. They

h .:w (~~ i·.d 1. b)d .:-\bl) ut: 1. ~~ 1: L tH' :> 1: h.:-\ I.

we1"e wr:i ti~ e lt by i. he for mer members

1":1411~ n 1: y () r· b~J e 1'1 l: y · p i. IJ r:! y C-'! r•H' !) •l\.30,

th e gouc~!r nment. Tc-:!ar Uwm up and

t h i'l)l41 HH~m ~'HJ.Jo'.'\ y • l:l-1 ~~ y d c> no i : tMhHl

anything! For·gei. abou1 the

FH'Orni, St:!S Mr· . Pt:>cl<fot•d hi.HI!-;c~ l.f lll·"dc-'!

about. bJidE:!n:i ng the r·aiJway and

kef=1p·i.ng l:h<:' i'di.li~Jdy, l:IJPY do not

nw ct n ct n y i h :i n g . T hal. wc-1 s year· s

dgo. The t'c'li.l.lo~.JclY ·i.s gonc,1.

Whdt rnatl-:c:~t·!; i.s IAJ~Ic:ll: l.it=!s i.n Lh(:1

ft1ture and what J ies in the fut:ur·e

i. s no 1:: h i. n g F o r· t h i . s P r· o v :i. n c c,1 . [ f

we are to do away with the

r· ail1.ua y. 1.uhi 1e we have done a1.uay

wjth the railway, and if we are to

have a decent mode of

transportation, the onJy thing

left ls l: o havr::~ r;l h .lgi·JIJ.Ji;ly .~cr·oss

the Prouince able to maintain the

e x !: t' a I~ r· a f f i. c a n d t ~1\,1 e x 1: r· ~ IMO t' k

load which is going to be place

onto i.l~.

I-IOI.U can l: h .-;' 1: be clone;! t~Jh:~ n Hll-) $l~OO

rniJ l'i.on to be r.pent <HI the highway

-i. s nr) 1: J992? ph.:~ sed a.nd we

elJc~n gc>i.ng l:o !;l : .~rl : llnl: i.l.

The r·ailiAJay j s going ·to be

01.1 l: c omp l. ~~ 1:1~ 1. y by St·) p i:t:1fllbt~ r

a r·0. only go :i ng to hau e an

c) x l: r· i.~ f CHI r· 1: c~ 1:) n 1: r· ~ 1: 1: or· 1': t' '" ·i.l . e t'

l.oi'.lds FH·!I" day on· thclt".

llut, :i.f _ljOIJ ) :istC:!I'H·!d

C:OTflrtlf'!l'l[: lllo"'lclc-~ l:. h·i. ~; tiiOt'ITi. iHj

l3LJ21 June 21, 1988

t·. 0

by t hc,1 till:!

Vol XL

r~ 0'"1 y 0 t' 0 f- S (: . J C) h 1"1 1 S :i. 1"1 ti·H>. S (·: l.l d _11

they haue read, that each tr·ac tor

trailer is equiu~lent t.o 1,000

cars going ouer the TJ"ans--Canada

d nd four· 1-.:f'!f~ n 1.:·-i.tnH s /1., 000 i. s S6. 000

uehicles going ouer the

Tr·ans ···Cdnada. Thai·:. is ~~xl:.r·a J.oad

and 1.11e kno1.11, Mr:. SpE!akE!r I i.f this

goui,H'I'llflf'!nt: lo~.Jou'ld just stop and

think, take the raiJ1.11ay a1.1Jay, that:

"i. s d n H x 1-. r· ,., l odd . r he ·i. ncr'~=! as e:1 ' i. n

priuate business ouer the next SHVf'!t'c:~l. ye.-H·~;, ··j F 1·:1-H:! HCOI'lOirlY Hl.!fHl

91"01.\IS at Lhe s]OI.\1 pacE· thal t:h-.is

got)r'!r'nnH~n i·. hds dll.ot)Jud ··i L t:o •::~r·ot~l,

but at the pace when lhe next l . i. lw;"i:l"l go•)c;!r'l'llllc:!nL ,.,r·l:r:! r' i:hH nuxl::

C.;! J C:! c t j on t.uj n s I can you j rua g :i n e t .J·H:!

l : r··;~nspur··i:~; l:hi:ll·. dt'l'! go .ing l·:o r_3u

ouel" the Tl"i'HlS ···CanadCl Hj ghway?

CiHl yu11 ·i.rn;~g·inu I.LJhdi: ·i.i: i . ~ ; go ·"i.ng

to c o s i t o b u j 1 d a hi g htAJa y

C:1fF ·i. c i.uni·. c,1il011gll to !u~·:!p L:hdt l~yp1;!

of t.r-affic? Can you :irnag:inf:~ 1o~.1hr.d.:

·i.i: i. s gc:l"i.ng l:o r:osl: l:o Jlli.-l"i.n-1-:a:in ,:,,

hi g hwa y 1 j k e t. hat?

Mr. Speaker·, one and one doE!S no ·t

llli:l!U:! Hn·ec-~ . Hds Fot'llll'!t' M:·i. n ·i. s l::er·

of Finance has been trying to tell

1-:hc,, fJf~oplc-?. of l::h'i.s Pr·ov.i. ncc'! l::hr:'!t.

is how you add up the finances.

Th i.s fot'lfiE~r M·i.n.i.s ler· of F.inanc<,~,

the present Minister of Health and

t. h e P r· e mi. e r o F -t. h i. s P r· o u i. n c C·) i:. e 11 s

the people that we do not hauE!

E~nough morH'!Y l·:o q · i . vE~ an adequ;stl".e

hospital health car'E! s y s tE!Tn to

Lhis Pr·oui.nc~:~ . 1,,1<:• clo not havt:o

E!nough money to giue a decent forrn

oF educd·l·.·i.on to L:hH p<-'!opl.~:' of t.hi.s

Proui.nCE!. We hau~' not had c,'nough

rnonc::!y i·:o pr•o•;·i.cl1:! <:l di-'!Cf'!l'll: r·uad

sel"u ·:i.cE:~ -to date . WP hau~~ not had

·Un,' mo i'l c-~ y d n d I)H~ ;~ ll. 1.1 n d ,,, r· s t c:Hl d

l hcd~.. The economy has not al loi.IHo!cl

11~; i-.0 ho:\UI) 1·.1-J;:li·. l".ype Oi- tllOI'H'!Y.

lf l :hr~l·. ·i_s i-.h1:! C:d~;c,~, r-1t'. ~)pf~•:lkPr' 1

:if l.ll~~ had not hctd tha'l rnon~~Y up

1 1 n H l. 1. 9 ll B , n c:H~J 1". h i'l 1-. 1- h I·'! r· "' ·i. l lo~.kl y

is gon0 and lhP exl".:rfl work load is

•::Joi.ng ·1-.o bH p11l: on 1:-.hl'!

No . 60 (Euening) R3421

Tt' iHlS - Cdrlc::\dc!l 1

Pr·ovincel u1here dcr·os s th -L s

is l:he money going ~: o c: o 1n r,1 fr' OIIl t o lllr'li.n Lr:dn 1-.·.hl'! h:i ghiAICI.y?

lJn)P SS thE:! M:i ni s t..e1" of Tt'<:Hlspor'l:di:-.i.on .:1nd Uw r-Hn · i ~; t-.c,,r· of F:i nance and thP PJ"endeJ" of Uds Pr· otJ ·i.nt:l·1 notAl hdve pl.dnl ·_,,,d money ·rJ"('!C·!S ~Ln li·IE-1 :LJ" backyi'l.rd, so t·hey c.u1 gu Ulll". ;u1d p i. ck off 1:1-J,,' b ·i. l. l!; as -1- hey n e P d 1 h ~! rn, M ,.. . S p E:' a k e r· , t:: h ·i !) h:ighiAklY ·j !) going Lo !) llrrl'!t'' T hoi ~~ lrighiAii~y. 1'-11". S per..tkE:H·, -.i s 9 0 i. n 9 1-. 0 b ( :! (~ V !;;! 1"1 IAl!H' ! ) (:! 1: h <Hl j l ·j ! )

tod<~y .

l'-1r· . SpE:!d.k EH', t-hey talk about t.IAJ ·i. nn-Lng 1-.1·1,,1 h"i.ght1JdY go"i.ng as Far· as Come Ry Chance and from CornE!r Br·ook 1-:o Por·t aux 8asqUt:1S. What happens after you pass the Argentia Access Road, then they h~ve to dissolve. Donald Duck us(,1d i~o do it ln the Walt Disrwy characters. He used to get off t h e c a r· t o o n , f o 1 d u p h j s c a r· I p u t it in his suitcase , and walk on.

SOMF l-ION . Mf:':rlJfl [ Wi : Hei'H', hear·!

MR. F:FFORD : Thr•JI: .i. !) IAlhd 1: to fold up

1·1 f:1 h •~ !; 1: o cf o . I h:1 h i·l s 'l.h8 't:r'iH;1 or· tlnaiJ ers,

put: i l: ·i.n :·ri. :; poc:kl:'l: •uH:I go on Lhc'! r'E'!st of I h~·! IAii'lY on t·he T t· ··\i'l S · c.:HJ;.Jd;~. ~\]hi ·l i ·. d !) Lilp·i.c:l l:h i ng "lo lE~lJ th~:! pE!opJP of l.his P r· o v :i. n c: H 1 ~1 r· . S p 1,~ i:l k C:! t ' . ab!>o] u t oly ir'r'Psponsible go v ('!r' n IIIC:~ n 1: 1: o r,~ v c,HJ 1: r· y

r.: for·

o'lrld

I •• .. ) any

·l ·y 1.1. thE:1 pt~opl e of HJ:i s ·Pr·ov"i.nce, l~r·acl:or·· tr·r:J·i. lr'!t'S ar'(·'! go·j119 l·: o dis a p p E:1 a r' . F o J d thE:~ rn up and wa J k 1-. h e HI i . n y o u r· h a n d a c r· o s s . W h a 1-. ~' thing!

Mr. Speaker, the Minjster of Transpor·tat ·ion br.i:tgs about UH?. seconda1ny road agrE!emE!nt, the $235 milllon. We have not had a SE:1condar·y road 1 s agre€:Hnent in this

L.3 'P?. June;! ?.1. 1 l9813 Vol XI..

Pt'OlJ"i.nc:e for· -1-:1-w last f · i . v'~ IJC'!<H'S. We should have had a secondary r· o;:Jcl clljt' HP.rnr'!i'lt .. 1 IAJH should hr:'\Vl:~ had that money fj ve years ago. This ·i.s not IIIOI'IPIJ For· i:h:~ r·a .. i.lt.~.Jay of Newfound) and. This i s mont:~y t o OIAH?.r:l 1: 1'11'! Pl:'Ofll :'! of i\lf?. IAiFOIJI'ldL:Hld . We I.I.JouJd . have:1 gott:E:'I'l tl,at mo nPy ~~nyhn1~1 . Tlli:li ·. money bel.1)ng ~; t.:o l:. hr~ pE-!Ople of NeiAJfoundland. That. :i s iol-11:1 :;Hc:o rHidt'IJ r'o<'l.d i:l9t' HHifJrH ll". . You cctnnot t·ak e c r E!dit for l~ ha t ~ 1'-11". ~:) p o 1.-l k e r' .

J Cd l'l l.lildl'!t"; l· . ..:tnd l. hcc! r.JI :i.n •i S l"c~ r· uf Transportation not knowing th e r:l ·i.Ffr?.t'C,Hl CH bHCr'lll!)i-'! i'tll. IAlh 'i.l. P l:: h P nE!gotiations were g o ing on h e n e v €:! r· I n r,1 v ('! r· t o o k p d r· l: o F "i. 1: . H C'! never knew about it. He never l t! f t t h :i. s II o u s f! o f (l s s e lfl b l . y . Y Cli 1 r attendance record was 100 pE!I" CE!nt her·e. You knew nol:h i.ng about the negotiations . So obviously I would s '''IJ 1-.o, UH~ M.i n i s t:E:H' oF Transportation, keep her down! K!H~p h (:!t' down b8Ci'lUSH you do no t know what we are talking about.

rJJr•' Spf~ dkHt' I l:o l .ook "'i ·. U·l·i. s SOt' I~ of an agJ"BE:'rnE:~nt then~ has to bE! SOIIH~ i-.1-l'i.ng 11Jr'Or19 bf:1C <HI S H T sl .'l J.l do not believe, I honesUy, and I do no ·l· Ul'i. n k Uw FH~ o ~> 1. :~ --i. n Hw g~J 1 ery, I do not th :i.nk people on ,,1·i. i:h1·:!t' si.dF.! Jn l:h!-0! g.::~1.1c ?. t'"i.c!s could belJeue lhe Premier of this fll" 0 lJ · i. rl C H

TherE:1 IAJr'Orlc:J .

that: IAJe

s · i . gtH~d U·J'i.:; d lJr ' HHliii·HlL . :is sornE!l.hi n g despeJ"al.e]y

l h o 1··· €~ i. :; ~; o rn n L h i. n q y H t-. do not know about.

Can you imagine a Premier who IJ.JOI.I l d f i.ghi·. 111'11·: i.1 ovur·y l a s t ounc e of strength WE:Hlt out of his body for· Uw peopl.P oF t:hi.s Pr·ou "i.nce I

he said that UrnE:1 and time again, l<~lhy he I~JOI.Il.d glVC'! c'IIAJay Cl lfiOde Of transportation for moniE•s that tJJe would have gotten anyhow?

SOM E HON. MEMBF.RS : Oh, oh !

~Jo . 60 ( f.vc,~n:ing) R34-22

r~R . fFFOR[): Four· h iJnclr· t~d rrri.ll. i.on doll,;.u·!; .

1-iEH'E:! tAJe iH'E:' :i l :is 1988, the ruoney

i . !; nol~ ::!.VE:Hl goi.ng Lobe st:.:u·l:r~d l:o

be spent unt:iJ 1.992, :is that

ccwr·r~cl~? 199:?., 1~1n an~ goi. ng Lo

spend $10 nriJJion of that arnount

of 1110 n e y . T h '.'i. s y r.:> d r· d l. on t:~ t h l:'! r' c,~

is going to be $30 mi] lion spent

0 n t: he h l g hiAir.l y I b u t i. n l 9 9 2 IAJ e r.H' e

onJy going Lo get $10 million . How do you explain t: ha t ? We .,u·t,1

t:aJI<ing abou ·t t he $400 milJjon .

Thi3.t, Mr·. Speclker·, i. s nol·. a d:~ al.

for the peopJ e of this Pro vince .

We are ~~'1-00 1n i.l.l. i.on bc~l.ov1 IAJhclt w 0.

wouJd have gol even jf t he ra jlway

h ·~ d s b :l y e d . T he n?. i . s no q Ut~ s I· i. on

about the:lt.

Mr . Speai<E~r, H . :is no good f o r· t he

people of HH) 9'>vc·H'l'ltnenl: l:o l:r·y

a nd t E:!ll what t. hey have donE-!

bec;.:i iiSii! ·li: i.!; i:l <Ji:t i. n :; l : ~ ny l013 i.e .

TI1Ar0. :is abso lu te) y no J ogj c to

-Uw •-~ 9 r· :H>.me n 1: .

J t~wu1d f.i'tY the Pr E:! ntier o f t hjs

Pro v ; _ n 1; ~~ I~J .;t !) o IJ I 1: o l.11 n c; h . r. would say hE'! ~Ala s :in the 1 imousine

l:i .pp i .ng hi,:; d~· i. v er · ~~ J hcHt l:h ·i. :;

agr·f.!~meni. was signed because he

cc~r l:ai nl.y tiJdS not •:l pari: of i·.he

agreement . If t he Premier of this

Pr·ov i.nce h.:~d an y dec enc y and r:tn y

caring for the people of this

Provi.nce, th1-H'C~ is no way he would

s:it down and allow somebod y to

hoodwln k hi.11t, somebl)dy t:o bluff

hi m :i nto r-a y ing t his is a package

that t he people of Newfoundland

wi]l accept. It is a s e llout, Mr .

Speak e r· , 1·. hi:\ ~~ nobody in t h l s

Pr·ovi nc e is wi lJ i ng to accept .

Wh a ·~ you have t her•e is past and

hi.s l·.or·y. Wh.n'f: t: he Pr· ~)lni. e r · sa ·! d on

Oe centbE-!t' 21, 1987: 11 Mr. Ke vi n

Ayl.Wdt'd, MilA, f>l : : ~ ph ~)rt iJ 'i.l. l. l·~

d1!d.r-:i c:t , Hou se of t:'tr.sembly . Dear·

Mt' . (lyl.IJ.J.H'r.l . 11 Fr'tHn 1 ·J11~ hon .

Ro·naJ d D r~we, thE~ t h <"HI Minis'LEH' of Tra n spo r'l:i1l l: "i,l) n . T.l: s p r~ l. l. s 1) 111:

I 34-/.3 June 21, 1988 Vol XI

very c] E!i'lrly about the cJosing out

oF I·. he t';,d l.t~J;~y -i.n 1\h>.t~Jfoundl.and.

That does ned. rncltt.er' anyrnore.

rh;:~.t ·i.!> pas 1·: h'i.s-Lot'Y. L'll<~ cH'C"! not

concerned about that. The then

rJJ ·i. ni. sh~r· oF Tt·ansporl·:.~l:.:ion lrtadP c:'t

st:atemE:~nt.

What matters to the people of this

Pr·o v ·i. n c f~ :L s wh,~ t: oi.s hdpp(;!nl.ng

today and what is going to hClppE!rt

i n l: h H f u l: u r· (,~ . ·r h a t: .i. ~; w h a 1:

mati:ers to thE' Province . The

rAilway is no longer An issue. T h E! r· o a d s tH"I d t h e T r Cl n s -· C e1 n a d a i s

Ut:~ i.ssue. .f.l~ 1~1as to1tchecl on 1-.t~o

or three times today by lh e

rn :i.n i. sl: ru · !; on t. h;:,~>'. !ddt~ . rf l:h.Ls

government., and if th i s Premier i s

so pt' l ) l.ld .::~nd h.:w~~ l · h ~ confich~n c e

j n t·hernr. eJ, ves t he y ar·e ·trying to

1.1 'i. sf> 1. ;., y i: C) 1,1 s I r:\1'1 d 1: h 0 y t h i. 11 k L he

people are behind them, why do

1: 1 ·1!~ y ~~ o ·t: t; ;-\ ll. '" n 1-~ lr-:~ r: i: :i. tHl on i: h t:1

iss ue and see t he n b .. Jh er·e thf)

p1:~ ople of Ul'i.~; Pr'OlFi.nr:r-:! s h :Hld?

SOMF HON. MFM BE RS : 11:~.:-n·, hoar·!

AN HON . MEMBER : (I naudib1 E!) .

MR . EFFORD: You have already stated this is

the be st d eal the Province could

hop e ·to h a v e . T hi s ·i. s a g r· e a t

thing. This is the greatest sjnce

s 1. i . c e d Lw ~~ ad . T h a t: i.s '•l h a 1: t he

Premier said . It: is the best de a J

LLihi.ch could pos s i.bl.y be:'! made for·

this Pr·ovince .

If that is the case, then cal) an el.ec l:·i.on people.

on ·i. l: . f3r'i. ng ·i. l: to I:: he The peop] e understand

I~Jh r-t{·. i . !) i. n h ~H' ~~ . The p eo p 1 e

u nderstand there is no maintenance

•:1 9 t'l,"! t~ JOIHH : , l: h1.;1 f>1·WPl8 JJndc~rst. and

that we d o not have money for

dl) noi: h.:wr:J 1noney for

wY do not have money to hr-).:\ 1. Ut, I~J 8

~!ducation,

ltli:l ' i.ni:d ·i.n

No . 60

c) II t' t' I)·~ d :; n ()I~J • . T l'l e y

(Evening) R3423

under·stand be money They will their X .

t . h e r· '~ i. s no 1~. g o i. n g t-. o to maintain the roads. t.el. l. you IA.I~li:Hl l':hey llhH'k

SOII-1E HON. MFMBFRS: Oh, oh!

~'IR. F.FFOfW : Ml" . SpE~akEH', ·lher·E.~ js no-1: one ind'ilJ'idl.li:d '.i.n l:h ·i. ~; Pr·o,ri.ncH 1~1ho l1 i* ~; any con f :i den n~ or d. n y r·r::~ s p (-:> c t r~or · l·hu r-hrl'.i.si:C!t' of ih'Hli:h ([)r·. Coll:ins) anyrnoJ"P :in th:l~; por·i-:fol.·io. l\JoL, <HH-~ p::!r·son ·i.n t--h:i s Pr·ov:Lncr::~, so your· u.Jor·cls cli"E:! empl:y, ~) ·i . r·, YUIH' 1~1or·ch <.H'I'! nb~;oJutE:~l y emp ·t y . Jt wouJ d l::lE! b wl-. l: (~ r· i. f UH-'! P n>. nri. :-'! r· h •'1 d s .:~ ·i d , 'No, J ctru noi- go:ing to sign any agn~emr-~nl-:. Tdk(~ thH r·ai. l.I~Jr'IY cHlcl throw iL away, do what you Jike

I Ali. ~~- h j_ t , b u t T am n o t g o ·i_ n g l: o sign the agreement . ' We would haV('! go~~- HH~ money anyiA.Jt:lY, FHH'haps more money than is coming in no1.11. We would hdve been better off . The pE!Ople of l:h:i s Plnov:i nee would h a v e s a i. d , 1 A l:: 1 (~ e1 s t. h f'! f o u g h t f o t' us and he would not quit . He IJ.JO u 1 d no I~ g 'i. v e 1.1 p , h (~ h f~ l d o ul·: . 1

We l!.lou1d have gainE:!d if hE:~ had not s "i.gnod t ·. hal: dgr·c·>.81fH~nt b:~c;.:~usr,~ :·.he IIIOnPy that :·j S COIIIi ng in I'IOIAJ and (· : he~ lll!Hli ''Y l:h,:-,1: 1~1011l.d h•·1V~~ COllll-~ i.n ovE-!r' l hE-~ 1'1(-~X-t. f:if·l P.li:~n ye!C\rs u.tould h.:i\llc' b:~r'•rl illOt't' nJI)I'lf:'Y 1-.h,:-Hl - ,~Jhi~ l·. ·j ~; :.i 11 t- h :i ~; d g I"~=! e• m Cc! rd: . The P r· e ru:i e I" h i . m~>··~lr ~~Jo11lc:l hi·WI'! .:1:-. 1.:~~~~; L pl.dyHd i1 pol'lt.lca] g~HO(~ h E-' cou]d have. IAJ<HI on bu1: l : hc~ gdliH·l h•~ h~1!? pl.r.~.yc~d rl•)I)J ·.is no way on]y Jo se , Mtn. Spc~aker . The::H'I~ i. s no I ~J.TIY hH c;.::m pc) :)!;i.bl.y win. Jl is absolutely i. rr·~sponsi.ble fo r· any Pt'E-Hoi.e r· en· ar1y body c:onne c ted 1.1d t h this House o f A s s c,~ rn b l y 1: o c-~ v E! n g i v r,1 1: h 1:1 s] :i.ghtest :indication that they are i.n favour· of .:1ny clausE:~ i.n Hd.s pari:icular agreement.

What about the secondary road

L3 4-2 4- June 21, 1988 Vol. XI..

agremuenl:? Conc:c->.pl--. "i.on Bay! Thii:1 member for Carbonear (Mr. Peach) and l:hf:1 member· For· Harbour· GraCE! (Mr. Young) are not hE!re this

f>. v f>. n ·i. n g d n d 1·: h o y h .:~ v li:~ no t. r· ·i. s ('! n ·i. n Uw i. r· s ~~ a l: s .

AN HON. MEMRER: Ordar! -

r11:~. FFFOfW : I r:tpo1og:i.ZE:1, Ml". Spc,!aktC>t" . I dill nni· ''illppch•-~ i:o r·c-~r~Hr· \·o l-1-l<"'tL T hr~ po~Lnt, Min. Spt'1Cik(~l", :i ~; !"hal: I have no L !·11 ~ d r· d 1'. h t-=~ 111 nk"\ k :~ d n y r· t·'! F ~:!I" H 11 cr,~ Lo th:i~; agJ"P(;~mE!n't:. Wii:1 hdd d r· i·d l. l~k' y ~; L •·1 : i n i 1 ·i n C 1. r.t r· lu~ 1 ~; R c~ a (: h , j n Ray Rober·ts, in lif.ld:>our· Gr·ace di'ld ·i. n Cdt'bcHH~iH'. t:l: ~~Ji:1S givc!n up, undE:!rstandabJy, g:iVE!I'I up for· s OIIH"! Ud n g b r,~ L ~~- e t' .

(IN HON. MEMBER: You agreed to that .

MR. EFFORD: Yes, we agreed, l::he people of today and the people of yesterday.

DR. COLLINS : Wha~ did we get ·i.n return?

MR. fFFORD: ~~e got·. absol11h~ly not h -i. ng .l n return for it. I. ast year· thE• the rJ!·i. n:i. s h;! t' 0 F Tr'r'U'l spot' i:d i: "i.o n iHld l:: h.:• Federat:ion of Mayors and r"'lli'l'i.ci.pdliLin!; !;dL dot~m and 1-.hu y agreed to have i:he i:racks i .aken up 1~ri. l:h l:hu IHH:ic'!t'!; i:dnrl i.n g i-.l-1101 1.: ·i.n t.h:i s agre(-..mE:!I'd. there \Aiould bE! a p ;_., c: k i.'1 9 f~ r () r· 1·. h ,,, i't r· : ~ d . r-1 r· . SpeakE!r, tl1er·(,1 :i.s abso1utE!ly not: on:~ pc:!nny for· l:hc:! p•,~opl(:! of Concept:ion Bay, not $1 :in this agr··~r~menl:, not·. $1. l:o btril.d 1'1(-'!IJ.J roads, to IA.Jiden new r·oads, Ol" to evan m.-1inLa"i.n the road presently running through Conception Bay.

Will the M:inister of T r· iHl s p o r· t a t. i. o n e x p l a i. n 1: o HH'! IAI h e r· e there is $1 in this fo~ Conception

No. 60 (EV(c~n-i.ng) R3'~24-

Any? TheJ"E'! :i.!; not on~~ rn~·!rd-.i on .

MR. DOYI.F: Thf:!r'e · i . ~; $?.3!) HJLl.l.·i.on (i. naudi.blc~) .

MR. F.FFOfW : $23", rnjJJJ.on! II: gCJE!S no lAiher·~~!

T h ~~ t' to~ i. s n n 1~1 h l:! r' c=! ·i. n ·I~ h d i-·.

agJ"C-:!E!TIII'::~nt. to say it goes any wh~>r·e

in Concept.ion Bcty or any where

f:~lsc->. in tl-r:is ProvtnCE!! It is up

1-:. o y o u t' p o 1. ·i 1-. i. c cl l. s 1. u s h f u n d s

tAihPI"E! you put tt . ThE!rE• is

a b s o 1. u t ('! 1. y no 1-. h i. n g t h t·~ r· '"' .i. n b 1 •'l c k

or· tAJhite to say u.JhE!Y'e it goes and

+: l·w a g r· ~=! ~~ 1 n e n t s h o u 1 d n o t h d u e b e l~ n

s:ignl~d until that agreement was

made . Tl: is $23r> mi.ll.·i.on 1~1<->.

s h o u 1 d h au e g o t Len any how and you

a t' e n OtM go i . n g I~ o u s ca a !) i:'

p(lli'l ital slush fund , but make no

Jni. sl:i:l kCi! abt>tll: i.l: Mr·. Mi.nl. shH' or Transport ai.. jon, your politic a]

s 1.11 $ h f 11 n d td:i. 1.1. no 1: •~10 r· !< i. n

Harbour Gln~c:E-!, and ii. w7i 11 not.

IJH)r' f< i, rl C" t' b C) t1 e r:H' , tHl d ·i. 1·. I~J'i. 1.1. tl I) 1:

IJJor· k in Tr· :i. nii.y - Bo.y de V~rd8,

r.lrlcl T gt.l•:'lt'i.\l'll : c~H~ yon i.l : t~ri. l.l. rlc)l·.

IJ.Jor· I< :i. n Pod. d e Gr'i:l u e . J c; i'.t n

<:1 s s 1.1 r· f'! 'J o 1 1 o F L h i·\ L .

SOME HON . MEMHFRS : Hear, h~!iH'!

MR. EFFORO : MHI<e I'IO rrr.istake, everybody on t.hat

~ddt~ knotAJS !-:.haL U·1r~l. i.s d f.::u:L.

There will not be one distrjct out

there that will. go PC the next

\':~]E!C'l.ion, and the $235 m~illjon

w ·i.l. 1. not. b u y i. l: . I F y o 1.1 do no t:.

beJieve me, ca1.l the election and

lAH->. t.~J"i.J.l soon find out.

That is deceiving l: h~ people.

Deceivj ng the people j s what this

governm~nl: i.s all about. They

deceived us :.in t.he FFT' s, they

d0ce t uad YS tn the offshore

agreement, tl tey decejved us in the

ll.o , ooo j o b !; :: h ~' P r· ~~ ri'ri. ~~ r· t>r' o 1n-i. :; ~ ~ d

aft-el" thP- la~d E-!] ec:t :i on. They

dt-)c;e·i.IJed II !>, l\1r· . Spt-)i:ll<CH' , i. n

I 34/.S JUnE-! 2], 1988 Vol. XL

everything that 1. hey have ever j:lut

For·l:h . Thc~r·c ?. · i . ~; l lO l!jtH?.s l:; .cH1 aboui·.

:i l , M r· . S pea k e r· , the :.i r d e c e j u i n g

tl.:ty:; i:lt'e 0V0t' . rhi.S i.s l:hci! S l·. t'•JIW

that ha s br·oken the camel's bac I<,

Mr·. ~P<·~.:~kc;, r•, 111) quesl-.i.on a b out .

This is the straw that has broken

.~ bou t i. t-.. Then.! is no t hi.ng i.n

this for the future of the

P r· o u ·t n c "' .

Mr . Spea ke r, how c~n this

agreement be accepted? Th e

f L g Lit' e ~• do no t Add 11 p i·: o tAl h a t 1: h 1;!

Premi er and the Mini ster of

Tran sportation is s~ y in g, $400

million doJ.Jars to be spent in the

beg:lnni. ng of 199/. - 1988, 1989,

1990, 1991, no mon e y, only u1hat. is

r~xisi : ;. ng now. Why i. s not -1-.h;:t+:

money gojng to be spent toda y?

The $400 mj J 1 jon is no t going to

be~ ~;p!-)nl : 11n l:i.l l99/.. The~ $100

miJ] i on you are ta lk ing abo ut has

no co nnc)c; i : i.o n 1~ri. i : h l:h <'l t

l1.1h at soeuf.H' . That ha s go { no t. h j ng

h) do l.ll i.l:h l·.h<:l 1: 1) 1~1< ·\ I :3 1H~'' 'H' . Thc~

pa c kage :is here, S:ir, and +h e

p.~ck.:~gE! ·i:; h1·:H' 1-) ·H1d .~nyboc.Jy t.ll i l: h

any open eyes at aJ J can r·ead it,

·~ COillplc~h~ Sl'!l.l 011[:.

Mr . Speaker, I do no t wan t to

s ·l:a nd h ~ r~~~ 'i.n l: h"i.s House-'\ of

Assembly thi s euenjng and r epeat

o v e r· 1:1. n d o v e r· •:\ g a i . n , s U c k t o t: h e

facts of wha t is here! Forget

about lJ.Jh ;~ 1: h<:~d h..:tppenc.a d l n I·: he

pa st , the rajlway is gone!

What:c.~ve t' st1:1.t~ rn ents wer~ made by

the Pr e mi e r of this Province fi v e

ye a r·s d go ctnd by the min LStEtrs

opposit e matters not.

What matters is we have sold

i : hc~ ful : llt'~~ r>f l: t' i:lr1Sportal::lo n

the Provjnce of Newfoundland

l.r'lbt' i:HIOt' . We,~ h <.~ V~·~ s o1d out

on]y mode of transportatjon

d c t 'O !) !i 1'1'1 i. :; P r• I) v i. rn: ~~ . L-.l li!

o n E:' . F u ~~ I" y o t h ~~ r· p l" o u j lTC E!

out in

and the

left have

has

u~1o . l.rJn h<·llH! on(-), .:-1nd Lh.:·1L ·i.~; no!-:

No . 60 (Fuen:ing) R347S

go.i ng it is

l·:o be u.Jor·th wr·i tt.en on.

nN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. FFFOIW :

1:-.he paper· l:hdt

No, I d-i.d ~101~ 1~ 1 anl~ to kr-'!r~p J·.hr:~ ra::iliAJay. No one argues that:. All t1H~ h ,,, d l: o do t;.Ja !; k c" f.! p t-. h t'! r·"' i lt;.k\ 1J 1.11'1'1- .i J IAH~ got· ;:~ cl e cent rn o d ~~ of l.r'cHl ~;pew l·.d Linn, n r· s ·i.g n ,.., dH t: t:!il't: ,,,tgi''•(·!PTIIE'I'J I ' IJO] d ou I .

{)J'll)body t;.ri.l : h <'ll'liJ i.n Lt·~ll. i g::!n1:t'' Wlti~I.SOP.VE·•i" IAIOU]d l·ti•~u~:! thi''OI,~oJn that b a c: k · .i. n .T o h n C r o s b i ,,~ 1 s f i::t c: ::! ! ~'II h o IAIOU]d CICCE!pl. d p:iE~Ce of gar·bagE-J T .. i. k I'! Lh<.-11-. an ins 1.1l.l·. l:o f!LJ c,•;·y Newfound] i:H1cler· and Labradorian!

AN l-ION. MF.:MRF.R: (Tnaud i.bl.e) .

MR. EFFORD: No. The r·oad s responsibility -

MR . TOBIN :

are the

Are you calling the road to Petjte Fort.~~ and l:hr:~ r·c,~st of ·thr:! Pr·ot;"i.ncE~ gar·bage? You should be asharnE!d of your·se lf.

MR. EFFORD: Fvc-?.r·ybody ne8ds pauernE=!nt! I would no t P v en en l:rH' l::rri. n 1·. h t:' M :i. n i . s hn· of' Social Services (Mr. Tobin) b t'! c d 1.1 !) 1;0! lllt'! d ll. k 1'1 (11;.1 J;.lh d 1: l·d !) capabi]itJes are.

Ml". ~:;p~:!i'AkE-!1", :·it. :i.s not E:!riuugh to go on •'lnd l:t'IJ l:o c:l'i. !ilt'dcl'. ft'OIII !:he,~ agr'E:!E:!TTIEHIL, dJ str·act fr·on1 ·the ar·gurnt~nL bc-~·i. ng p11l: fot·l:h. W~-:~ hdiJt~ noth:ing i'.tgcdnst pe<>p]e gett:ing pavellllHll:. W r-:~ n eed p.:wemf;!ni: . rhc-) pE!Op] e of Pe tit Fort.e, the peop] e of Radgar, t he peopl e of Corner Elro<>k, the people of Port aux B c1 s q u c-?. s , t. h E~ p =·~ o p 1. c-~ o f fl o n ''' v i. s 1: a , everybody Jn this Province needs r· o ad s . T h a l·. i s IAI h a l 11JC:' <!\ Y' e

l 3426 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

l::d l.ld ng abou 1:: .

We are talking about a decent rnode o f 1·: r a n s p or· t: a t: i. o n . W h a 1:·. ..i. s go { n g to happen? In Port dE! Graue cl·i. s 1:. r· i . c: L 1~1 e h a 1; e e 'i. g h t. f i. s h plants; in Harbou1~ Gr·ace lAIC;! havE• 0 1'1 C:' 0 f 1·: h f~ 1. d T' g H ~; t f~ ·.i. S h pl. i:\ 1'1 ·1- S 'i. 1'1 the Island; in Carbonear· the sarne 1~1ay; and dll. l:hu pr··i.val:c~ bus.Lnc'!SS operations in thal particular iH't~d. HOI;.) ·i.n HlP l'ldrn::. or goodrll'!~:;s clre the tracl..oi" t:ra:i J E:•r's ~~oi n~1 Lo gc-~1·. OtJc:!l" d t'Oi'\d, ·i.f J;.Jf'! do ned.: l'ldtJH c'\ c:l I'! t>! n L r· o d t1 i: o 1·. r· .:·\ t; H l o v C:! r· ?

co ·ing dot,.m l·.llr·ntit:Jh dll oF Lhe cornrnunJt:lE!S now :l.i i•; not IAJ:idE• t'!i'l0119h r~or· 1.:1;.)() 1:t'dt::l:or' t:r-di.lt'!r''~; 01" two vehicles to pass with any ~''"t··i.sFdt:l·.-i.on. \.~hy '"'"''' l".hur·p nor. s ornE:~ t h i n g p u t j n b J a c k a n d u1 h i l P ·j rJ 1: h ·j S J: () S .:-\ lj , I l J'l l 9 a 9 , beginning in the Spring of the y e a r· , Uw b 1J -p a s s r' o d d ~i. s g o i. n g 1:. o be star·ted. 1 Why was that not in l·:he agr'f:!r-?.Jflf~nl: 1-.:h,'lt·: l:hl:~ pf:~opl.e could SE!e?

Yes, the $23r., mj.llion is tht~re for· the secondary roads agreement, that is providing thE! M:i.nister of Tr·Clnspor·t;_,\'1-.·ion a.nd hi.·s col.l.PaguPs can spend it where they figure -l:ht:~y dr'c:! c:~o ·i.ng l:o gr~l·: l~ht·~ rnost: uotes.

We !>alAI IAJha ·l happE:'rlE!cl l:.o thP Hllli'l·i.c'i.p<:\1. gl"o:\nl-.~; i.n Por·'t: de Cr-·dtJc:' d :i. s t r· i c i . Not o n e do] 1 iH' t:. o cHI y i·.o,~Jrl cnunci.·l . . ~..JH hdt.H~ four· nti:l.yors, the rnayor of Ray Rob8rt.s, i : h I·~ lili-l.lj I) r' I ) f' C 1. r'\ t' !< ~~ I S 8 8 a 1: h 1 i·; h ( ~ m~yor of Nor th Ri ver and the mayor t)f' So11l: h R"i.tJt-H' . !) l: rong Tor·y supporters who now wer e ~trong Tor·y Sl.lppot•l: t'H's . They a ·r.tended your conventions! And here the Mi.rl'i.shH' of r.lluni.c ·lpc'\J. ~ff,:l"i.rs (Mr . Brett) in handing out the grants c:ornpl.eb~ly i.gnonil d i:h0111 bl:'!cr.li.ISe they got a Liberal me mb e r . Well, wh.~l: a s lap i.n th~o) fi:lct:!! Whr1t an


i.l"lSIIl.l: l:O l : hOSI,~ peopl.H 1~1ho

~: u ppo r-LE~d your· piu·ty !

Sor-1F HOI\1 . MFMB F I{!') :

Oh , oh!

Mf~. EFFOIW : T h1'> l .d!> l: t· ·i.flll'! t 1~1on by 1., 1)00

voi e!', t.hr1t is J , 504- for 1 he next

el.c c: 1·. i 1)n. Man, 1) h m•~ n I T. g.;t i.nc~d

an extr·a 500 vo'l es beca u se of

th.:ll:. Peopl, l-~ rH' e nol: gotng i:o tH:'l

dici&ted to. People a r e not going

to be~ Lnsu1ted. T hi.s i.s nol.:hi.n g

only a forrn of dj ctation. John

Cr·o sbi.e and Br· i.an Mul.r· on c~~Y - t:hJ s

is alJ this js - t:hey said, 1 Take

i. l: or· g H l: -1. o s t . 1 I l~ IJ,JO u 1 rl bE!

better :if lhe Pr'E!mier of this

Provi.nce had not tclk e n i t . The peopl~~ of lhis Provi nee could haVE!

a t. l. ~~ a s t ~H:~ l. d ·(··. h e i_ r h ~~ d d s u p tAd. 1-. h

some pr·ide and sa i d, 1 We are not

g o i. n g 1·: o t.:~ k P a n y ·i. n ~; u l. 1: s cH' r.1 n y

gar·bage c-.-~nyrnor~~ fr·orn Ottawa as 11.1~~

h ;_., v t::~ b c-~ en. La k :i. n 9 ''' 1.1. d 01~1 n 1: h r· o ugh

-t- h~~ Y€·!at" S , 1 Mt". Spt::' i'..lker·.

Mf~ . TOflTN : WI IC:d Ill 0 U ] d y 0 U b E! f 0 I" ?

r.11r~. FTFOIW : Whrlt IAIOill.d I be for·? I l.llOul.d b<-'!

For· i.~ docc:•n 'l: mod~-:~ of

t r· 1:1 n s p o r· t a i :i o n , a hjghway across

IAJi. Ul d 1: l. f:~ "' s L ;_~ Hid i. n 1·: f:~ n •'~ n c 1-:!

Cl91"eernent, -

SOME HON. MFMR F ~~~): -~i e a r-:-Fi ear ., -

Mf~. FFFOfW : IALi. 1: h a 1:. J. (:~ e1 s t: E! no ugh rno n c,~ y l o

maintain thE:~ highway! That is a11

1u e h ad b e f o r· t-?. • A t. l. e a s -t I:HlO u g h

troubl.e -

MR. TOBIN: Why u1as -there not a maintenance

agr(:'Hml·>.nl: in ()r·gfHJ~·.-ia?

r"''R. FTFOfW: Do noi go i r:~J J ing rne IAJha ·t happened

1. 3/j./.7 :T11ne /.1., 1.9BH lJol. XI .

·i. n 19 () 7 !

Why di d noi: my grandfathE:!r have a

d ·i. :) s ~) 1. ~~ n g ·i n ~) i. n h i. s s .:d.l b t) ~ t s ? I

do no 'L I< n 0 1.1.1 • I was not around at

l·.h;·ll: l: ·i.rno . l •:1111 i:H'Ound 1: t>da y ~mr.l

we k I'ICJW IAJ ha t j s good f Ol" the

r r· () u ·i, n t: C! i. n F I 1-l-. 11 t ' ~~ . I) I) n 0 1: <.j 0

talking a bout Lhe past , Mr. :1 p <:' i'l k e r· .

SOME HON. MFMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR . EFFORD: r'l r· . S p t'! d k (~ r· , HI y g r· <~~ d 'l: C:' S l:: r <~' i'.1 t ' f 0 r•

the future is whE! l" e the mon E! Y j s

go :Lng Lo COiflt->. Fr·orn For· Lhc->. r oa d

agrE!EHTlE!nt:s, probably from ACOA .

T h a 1:. "i. s m y g r· (~ .,1 t--. (~ s l:. F E:! <'' r· , t: h e

money is going to have to come ou t

of l-.he ()CO() fund for· l:.he Futur· 0.

for our secondary roads and for

1. h ~ ~ b 1 t ·i. 1. d ·i. n g o f o u r· r· o ad ~' i n

NetAJfoundland.

MR. TORIN : f11) k noiJ,J! ; Uld 1: :i. s no t-. (-. r · t.tt~.

MR . FFFOIW : No, I do nol knot"' ·t··hal i ~; ncJ·t.

Lt'llt:~. h,J ·i Lh l-.lll'! conf . i. rl:=!nU~ l!l l'! l·h·l lH !

:in tJds gouernrnE!n-l.. todcly, ·Uwre i s

noUdng l:o -l-.e1.l. m:~ Uldl-. 1-.1-wy t"Jould

not be foolish enough to sign

·Hl y UJ"i. n g ' r'~ r' . s p n o?l kr:~ t' .

Mr. S p eaker, if t h e rail wa y had to

t: l OSIO! I)U [: r:\nd r;\ll, 01: tr:\IAJri\ IJJOLI1d

h a v e g i v en u s was t he $ 40 mi 11 ion

wh ich ~he y w~r~ losing tn

mai n taining the r ailway , it would

hr.\ v e tH:"!en wn·c~ t han we a. r·t,1 ge l: l· i.ng

here. All the y had to say is, 1 Tab~ th~~ r·ail.IAJdy, g:i.Ul:1 US l:h(;! $40

m:ilJ ion and maintain what WE! are

yel~ l:. i.ng no1~1' and we IAJould be

be l:ter· off.

Thr~ M-i.n-i.shH' oF rr·anspor·l.: at .. Lon

(Mr. Doyle) tr:iE!d lo say to u s ,

'l.ook, I•H'! <H':~ ge 1: :: -i.ng Lhe $400

miJJion on top of what we e1re

~-10. (j() cr: l)l;!n ·.i.ng) r~ :3 IJ./. '7

getting fal.st:~!

now. 1 That is totalJy

There is nothing in this agreement. This is not going to start unt. i.l 1.992. lF thai: t.o~J<'ls HH>. case, tA.Ihy is not. the $400 million goLng i·:o be sp(->.nt: ·t-.oday? Thai: i.s lhe questjon, Mr. Speaker.

what ~'l bout t: h P 1. ~>f) ~' :>."' s on <:<~l t.o~JOI"kE!r's of th:i~; Pr·ov~ince? Do jobs nol·: m.:·lLI:nr· l·. o i· l·w l r.)r.i Sf!dSOI'li·ll. workers, Mr. Speaker? Mr . :) p ('! d I< !'! t' J 1·: h () ., ::! pH!) p 1. 1-'' h <'llJ ::! 1: r) h d l} I;! jobs .

Mf~. DAirJF : Th~'Y i'H'~'l go:i.r1g io bt::' Jooked C~fl.~H' .

MR . FFFORD: ~\11:dl. , Mr·. Spt,~.:~kt:H' , l:hi:ll : ·i. !; ·1-.ht:' quest:i on. TIIE-!'!J say thE:!y are going l·.o b:>. l.nok:>.d dri:C:1t'. rh ·i, !; i.!; Lht0!

surnruer· of 1988. There is still a r·r.1 Ll.uklY in i·:h:is Pr·ov inc:c:~, yt:! 1: there->. is not one of those seasonal IAHH'kC:H'S I..IJOt'k-i.ng today. J-IOIAJ dt'H t·hey go:i ng to bE! J ooked after. Mr·. S p E-) <:1 k ~~ r·? W h y e1 r· e l.: hE>. y no 1: l.o~Jo r· k i n g today, Mr. Speaker?

MR. DAWF : Why do you not wait 24 hours?

MR. EFFORD: Mr·. SpE!CJ.kE:'r', :if this government h ;:-1 d an y c o n s i. d :H' •'I 1: i o n For· 1·: h P fH:wpJ E' of this Provi nee, they uJoul.cl h •. we tln·ol~ll'l Ul'i.!; b.~rk ;,11·. John Crostr:i ~1. If thE-~Y had any consi.d<:H';:l-l:i.on, r'lr·. Spr>.;1!<f:!t', for · ·lhP IAJor·l<c-!l"!: of ih-.i!; Pr·ov :·ince, t.l1e full " H . lilt:~ I~J() r· k (·) r· ~; o'll'l d Hl <:' par· t.·· Li nt~~ 11..10 r k e r· s who IAIO r· k s:·>.ds<Hl.:-lll.y 1.o~ri . l:h i:ht·) r.,,,·i . l.l.o~kly, Hwy 11..1ould hCJ.v~~ thrown :j t bCJ.c k. Rut: nc~ v e rl:h<~l. !:1S S, Mr• . Spe .:l!< tH' . l: ht,'l lj J ~!fi nn :l n;.ul t ·l o the peopl e of 1: hi. !i P r· o v i. n t; c-~ a n d r. h t:l _ o n 1. y 1~~<:1 y i: h f~ p eopJ P. of t.h:i;. Pr o vince 11..1ilJ get a vt~n at H~t:ll: i . s afi:tH' t: ht~ n c-) xt·. E:~Jc-!ct.ion, l.o~thenc->.ver :it may' be, i'Hicl

1.3428 June /.1, 191!8 Vol XI ..

the sooner, Mr. Speaker, bet.h->.t'. We~ l.o~J'i . l.J. shot~ol tuhc:ll': all about!

SOME HON . MEMBERS : H(~,:,1r, ~Welt'!

MR. RlDEOUT : Mr. Speaker .

MR. SPEAKER :

it the

i.s

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries .

SOMF HON . MFMBERS: : I f~ ."H' J h C'. 01 t' !

MR. RJOFOUT : r·-'1 r· ' !) p (:~ · ·~ k t0! r· I T h ·~ \) !-'! II ::! d r· cl l) f lJ~~r·baJ gyrnnastJcs from t.:irnE:! to :-. i.IIIH , "'n d I l'h'ttH:' !> e ~~ n l':i·H '! 111 pE!I"forrued on occasion :in this Ho11~;:~. b11i: l h.:-1V1>. t;ur· y sPl.dom heard of mCJ.themalicaJ gymnastics pto!r·For'Hlt:H:I l·. o i:he r~xhHli: just per·forrnc->.d by the hon. genL1ernan I~Jho l:ook h·i.~; s:-~r:-11· .. To bn abJ.c,~ Lo say, and in a public forum, in Lhe I . t·~ g 'i. s J. a 1.: u r· H , ~~~ l t: h s o 111 e p f'! up l.P ·i. n the galleries, the rTIE!dtc-l 1istE!I1i ng and so on, to b1->. abl.(:'! l:o say 1..1r:i.th any degr·eE• of sincE!rity, Ml". Spei:lkc~r, in d publ. :i. c for-·um tAiithout c hoking. that this Pl"ovi nee lAJould ba better off by taking the $40 million a year t.he:1 Government of Canada loses on the railway Ln NetAJfoundland and Labrador and that ·i. s i 1:!

~-1r·. Spt'~·~kc·)t', ·t·.i1e hon. (jt·>.ni:.l.ellldn g o t L o b c->. r i cl -:i. c u 1 E! d , a n d h e 1.o~li J J i.)H onct>. il: b:~cont:'!'> kncn.Jn, Fr·otn Cape Chid] ey t.o St. Mar·y 1 s Ri'ly For Uldi !dnd of fonl·i ~;II log·i. •: !

~>OMF liON. MFMFH::RS : HE-~ar, hear!

MR. RIDfOUT : r11r· . group 1 .. :~ s L bC:1E!n

Speaker, ·i.f there was any of people I have seen in the nuJnbr:! r' of lfiOnl : h~; 1..11ho hdve wh~st:l:ing as thE•y mar·ched

No . 60 ( Everdng) R3428

:J

pa!>t. th~ graveyard, thej r

ph i.1osophy t~M !) i . n U1•~ !> pc.;H~ c h uv'ld•-~

by t .lw hon . g~ntl ~ rnan tAlho just-

bH> !< hts !)~.~al ·. , and U1i>tl: ·i. :> 1;1hy

tldr. dP.brJ. tE-! is on, Mr· . Speaker.

ThilL i.s· 1~1hy 1.!; l}li.'l.:; C)l'l 'jP.S l : •~rcJ.~y,

·I hr.d. j s t ~ thy ·j I 1.1.1<-lS on las-t nigh'l',

t:hal: ·i. !; t;Jhy i. :: ·i, !; on •'~9•:\'i.n 'l:od..:ly,

I::H·H:rlU58 t.hi~ hon . glnoup, the

orfi. c : L.~ l Oppl)si. l· i.on i.n HH~ Hr>ll!le ,

know thr.tt t:h is por ·ticular

governrn c~ nl : and l: hr~ (;c)V{-H'rtlllen t-. c)f

C<:~nrlda, :in t his package called

Towards 200 0 hold s ou~ the

future prosperjty of Newfoundland

l;lnd Labrador. Thc.;!y krH)I}J i. l: , Mr· .

SpE:~aker·!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar·!

MR. RIDfOUT: They knotAI, Mr. SFH~aket', l: h•:tt.

wrapped up i n this agreement is

p r· o s p e r i. t y , t h a 1: t he c u r· s c~ of

:i.solabon has been broken forever

111orf.) for· 1-. he~ p~op 1 c~ of Pe t:i.l".

FortE:! . They know Utc:ti· j t rueans

i .rnpr·ovouHHll:!; l:o t-:h1-) h i.9hl;li:1Y Ft'o rn

Re~y Vert@. t .o t.he Tr·ans - Canada

H ·i ght~li.W. Tht~y knm~t i : h.~ l: i . l: 111!·) ·:'\n:;

·jmpr·o v~rnEHii 5 'l.o i h8 Bonavista

Hi.ght}lc:ly, Mt' . 5pc:1iill<~lr' . Th~y "knot~l

·t hc~1 :i. t- ITI(H-Ans i'HI :i mpr·ovfld

Tt' •:l n s -C.:·'\1'1 i.H:I i.'l H ·i. g hiJJiil !J . T h"~ !1 k n Ot}J

t !Jed. i 1 me arts i.ha-1. f:i nalJ y the

t•o ad ri'I) IO Rodcl ·i. r: !( l:on .::~ncl r::ngl. l-)1·)

ove-n· ·t-o Plum Po:i ni. ud 11 b~:! paved .

Th::ir. :ir. jur.t. not an agr(,!ement to

g c,q , r i. d of i: I·H~ t ' ·il·i. l.bJ.:t y , Mr .

Speaker. Thj s :if> an agreement to

111ake sure th c\t f-)Ver·y part~ of r'Ltr'•:t.1

Newfoundland comes :into the

Twenty-F lr·st. Century, Mr.

Speaker. That is what jt :is all

about, and tha.t i.s u1hy the Li. ber.:~l

Party of Newfound] and and Labrador

hav~ gol: to scr·atch and c;l..:\w and

beg and try to make sure that

sotOl.;!hOI.ll or o thtH' they can set l:tlf~

seeds of doubt :in the mind s of the

public oF NewFoundland an d

I 34-29 June 21, 1988 Vol XI

Labrador, that there is something

I}Jt'c)ng 1~Ji. l: h Ud.s dc~al . That i .s U11~

b9Ltom J ine, Mr. Speaker, and that

·i.!; 1:1Xi~l; i : l.y l~lh.~l: h··l:> b1~1~1'1 l: c.:\k :ing

p J a t e he r e i 1'1 Ud s I.e g i s 1 a i t~ r e

r)lHH ' l · hf~ l. i.·lsl ~ C:O ilplc~ of d .:~ y s . 8u t

:i ·l is not going Lo happE:'n, Mt".

S p ~~ <•l !c :~ r· , lH~ c: ~~ 11 $ o U11 ~ r : ~ ·i. s tll) I: one

pE-l r son wa J king the s tree t s 0 -F

M·i.ng' :; 1) ·1 gbl: l:on·i.gh1·. I;Jho M'c~ up sc~t:

because the Gover·nrnerd oF

N ~~ l~lfi)IHH.Il ;;Hld o"\lld I: he-) Go vc~ r'I1 1II E!I1 t of

Canada have s tr·ucl< a clea] t l"la l i s

good for Newfoundl a nd clnd L~brctJor.

SorliE HON . MEMB F. RS: HE!ar·, hea1n!

MR. RTDEOUT : There is not one person walking

t h c->. s l~ r· r-=! P 1-. ·i. n P u r· b e c I< ' s Co v e

tonight who is upset because of

t h a :~. d c->. a 1. , rJt r . s p E~ cl k c->. r· . A n d w h a !:.

government, Mr. Speaker, in the

h ·i. s :··.or· y o r Uri. s P r· o v ·i. n c e , o F a n y

political stripe, fought tAJith more

dnt·_c::!r'ln ·i.nc'lL'i.on, l·.t.ll"rH~d OVt'!t' l : hc,~

lclst stone, Mr. Speaker, crPai. E•cl

n c~ '~' c: h o:1l. 1. c~! n g :~ ~; IAI h H r· e 1·: h c;• r· :'! IAJ e r· c-~

not c h a J ] C:Hl9 e s be f C:lln e , f o ugh l: t.ui [:. h

Hl 1:' l. ·~ ~; 1-. ~·,,,HI n oHl I: ~; () F :i t. s

deterrnina-Lior1 <~nd w:Lsdorn <:lnd

r!) r· 1-. i. 1-. I l d :) -:: () l: t' y -1". C) s d v (! I·~ h ,,,

NetAtfoundJ and Ra:iltAtay? Ii lAiclS li'H'!

PC (;c)l) ::! t' nmc~ n 1: 0 f i\lt~I)J 1-01,1 11 ell. rHl d d n d

I abrador·, Mr·. Speaker·. It lAtas

Lh ·i ~; go'JI'!i'l'llllr-:>n !·., th .i.s

adrnJn:istration, and previous

<:·tc:lnri.ni. ~;Lt"di· · i.cHl!; Fot'l"llt'!d by t·h·i.s

par·ty, who stood by l hE:~ rcd.ltAiay of

ji.J (-~IJJf () 1.1 nd l. oHld d n cl 1.. db r~ c:·11:1 tH' . It. lAid s

this administration. So we do not

hc'lv ,,~ i·.o go out: of l.:h L s l·lou s ('! <:trH~

go to the people of Port aux

Basquf~S or· U1r,;! peopl.~=! of Bishop's

Falls or the people of Corner

B r o o k o t' U·w p e o p l t'! o f a 1'1 y IAJ h E~ r· e

else and hang our heads, Mr·.

Speak or·.

SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear·, hear·!

No. 60 (fventng) R3429

MR. RIDfOlJT : Th:i s party f"ought to saue the r· e1 i l.IAk\ y () f N ~!IAJ f!) u nd 1. and r:Hl cl I CJ. b r· ado r· . We do not h au e to stand i. n 1:. h .l s 1-1 o 11 s c-~ , o r· -i_ n "'n y f o r·um anywhere e l s e in this Province, Mr·. Speakt,~r·, and t:r~l«->. a back se<'lt to any poJttical movement for our defence and our efforts to try and saue the r·c-:~ilt.uay. and IAJE! are not going to, Mr. Speaker.

AN HON . MFMRFR : Make your point .

1'-H~ . IU f) FOUT : M r· . S p t:! d kr.~ r· • 1~1i.l.l g u t-. l:o 1ny po :i. nt s :·in ·1 he l:hdi: r: IAJdni· Lo

d E:~ b i'! { e c.d. { lw pol n t 9(~1 : l:o Lh:)JII .

SOME liON . MF:r'1fl E :~:-) : HE'!iH'. h eiH'!

Mf~. RTDFOUT: l,,lf~ d o n o l: hi.'\ lJ ('' 1: o 1·. i:\ k (:' ;_~ I:)"' c k s ::! ;,, I: i'ls a pol:i.t:i.ca] piH'ty to anybody,

g(:!nl:l.c~111nn

de tc~~ r·m:i. n E!d

l c,'.:·l s 1: of d ll l·:h~>. hon. oppos:i'tE:!, fOI" OUI" ~' ffor·l : l-:o Lr·y l~o s<:wn and rndl<l'! uiable the railway of this Pr•olJ:i.nc~~. Wc.:! do nol~ hdVf'! l·:o do it, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SIMII-10NS: You say that with a stra·ight face .

MR . RIDEOUT : Yes. Sj r. And WE! hau(~ no reason but. t.o haue a smi.l .c:. on our· fac<~. 11-1 r . S pea k e r • for· i'.ll J the w or J d to !> (H>. b e c a u s c~ c->. u <·H' y b o d y i . n 1-.I·Ji. s Pl"ou:ince knOIAIS it. Thc,1y kn01.u it: 'L n L d ~ '> ci. c,~ d n d F 1 I:! t.lr' d r~ I . y s ''~ n d S 1: . Mar·y 1

!; • and aJ J around thE-~ Pr·oui.ncc,~~ H1aL UJ"i.!; C.:JOUfH'I"liiH~nl: hr.~~; t r:i.E!d :its VE~ry be!d. thr·ough d ·i. f f "i. c 1 1ll: l: i. 11 )(,~ s , r.11 r· . !") p n ·~ k f'! r· , IAI:H l1out the suppor·t of the:~ Oppos ·i.l-.i.on, bi'LUJOIJl". 1-hf:' Sllppor·i: of {he-! Oppos :U :-Lon 1 !; par{ y and sorne of 1: h wi. r· rn (~ Jttl:) <H' :; I)J l·w n ·1: h ~~ y I)H'! r· (:' 1-. h (,~ go~Jet"nmEHd :i.n O·l:tatAia: tArithotJt 1·: h r:• i . r· sup po r· 1: IAH:' 1-.r· ·i . : ~ d i:c) do UH,~

L.34-30 June 21, 1988 Uol XI .

i.tnpo!;s ·i.bl.e. ~\1(>. 1-.r·'i.l:'!d ~~lhdt hts Lor·y has not been able t.o do sinCE! thE! 1. BOOs. 1-.o s du f~ ...1nd rrtcl k 8 lJ:i.abl.e the railway in Newfoundland and l .d br'r'ld 0 r· .

MR. DECKER: But you fai1E!d .

MR . RIDEOUT: M r· . ~) p c,~ .:-1 k f~ r· , o IJ P r· l:. h H l. d s 1:: s e v l:! r· a 1 tAiee k s and months tAJe had to rna k E' a cl :~c·i.s·i.c)n . r~l" . ~-)p<~dkf'!r'l Jook i. ng dl:. the stati s tics, with something l. <'! •; :; , J b c~<l . ·i_ <:' ~If;! , 1-.iVHl /. 0 p !:'! r· CE:! Ill: of l: he:~ ft"<'!j g ht traffiC nOLAI ITIO V E•cl ilcr·us·; 1\J:~IAi(OIIndJ.i-~ncl i.'incl I ;_·\br·ddot' rnouc~d by thE:' ra:i liAii'.lY. and gE! 1-:.l-.i ng I~JOr'•;H, do yo11 s·i.t: b;:,ck ·i.n your' sc-'!c\t i'..trld a11oiAI the j ne~v:i l-ab] E~ t o h.~pfl() i"J? r: !; l:h.ll: br:! ing ro.~spons:ibJe, Mr·. Sp<->.akE!r·? Do you s"i.L l:h~ck i n your' s(:!<·\l·. i.Hld .~ll. OIAJ l:.o dj sappE:)ar the jobs of 4-00 or 500 p :- ~ o pl. e I h OIAH:otJ (:H' tlld n y ~~10 t' k f'! r· !> a r· (·o!

engaged in that t n d us t. r· y • cHId s orne of 1: h (,~ r11 c o rrt"i. n g -1: n 1.1 s and s a y i. n g I

1 For God 1 s sah~. GoUE'!T'nrnE!rl l: of ~J :~ blfoundl .• ~ nd drHI l..dl:n-ddor·. i. F you are going to do anything, try to g e l: i. i·: d n n ~=! s o o n b P c a u s (;! t: h e n E! x 1:. thing the inevitable is going to happf:)n and we <H'P going t:o gc,~t nothing anyway. 1 That has h a p p e n e d , 1'-1 r . S p e) a I< ~ '! r· . W i. t. h 2 0 per CE!nt or less of thE! traffj c. i.HH.l :i.l:. cont:i.mri ng 1-:o dc-:~cJ. LnE!, do 1.11e cJ.ose our eyes to realj ty? Do IAJf'! c l. o s f'! o u r' (;! y C.:! <:; to r· €~ a l. i. t y F.l n cl just let reality and thE! nclt.:tH'a1 cotH'Sf~ of HJ"i.ngs Ldkt! pl de e dnd nothing happens?

MR. TULK : '( (l U ,:~ l.IAkl y S h d V f~ .

r'1R . IUDF.OUT : Mr· . Sp(:!aker. thPy i:II''E:) the pE:'opJ E:' ~;n hyp(:)d 11p i·lbou ·l-. c:lecor·1Jtrt and so on, as Jam !wre you hauE· notiCE!d .

Do you aJ.J.ow your·s e->. Jf I Ml" . Sp!,'d k ~~r·. 1.'1 ~) "' t ' <·'! !; p on s j_ b l. H

No. 60 (Euening) R3430

governmenl: to do thclU I !·1ave r.o :.ay that if I have to join in that

de cis i. on the an s v.re r u n e qui. v o t: .:\ 1.1. y

hC:ls i.o be no. Rut you do not take

t:h e appr·oach of Ull;! hon . gc~n l: l8HioHI

fClr· Por·i d~ Gr·ave, Mr . Speaker .

You r:l o no '1: 1 : .:~ !< 1-~ 1:!'1 •:I I: appro r\C: h

t.uhE·!I"E~ you say, 'C::iVf! rno thE~ $4-0

111 i.ll -Lon U1 d 1". yo 11 l1ll'! r' H fh·l. y -i. n ':!1 ·i. rl

l u !; s E-' :. a s a :. u h s :i d y to -!. hE-!

r .. '\ i _ li~Jdy . 1 '{r)IJ de> not: do l·.hi-\1: ;.'lrld

:'; CJ.y t'to t. hi ng c~ 1 ~ e . W.ha 1. you t r y to

d o, Mr· . SpE-)<:\ ki·H' , i:; l.o rH~gl)l · i .• ::~h~ .. \

dc-H·Jl 1 hcd :is po!-i s :i ble, a df!al -t: hat

IJ.Ji. l 1. 1:)1,1 I_!) I) I) Ll f !) r• N t·~IJ.I f () l.ll'H:ll o;'HH:I i:\ n d

le~brr~dor for· dE:lC<:tdc~s ar1cl decade s

!:o r:owr~. Tn ol:hc'!r' wor·ds, yo11 havH

t o de a J tAli 'I h -L hE:' r· e a J j -L y . You cl o

nol~ .• i"'S a gover·nm,-:!nl-., hc:11Je 1-:hH

J uxury of thE! Opposition to be

able~ l:o sc:1.y no 1nai-:L~:!r' l.~oJhal:-_ thr:!

government does, we are

autornal:i_u.tlly go"i.ng l:o be-?. aga-i.nsl-:

it. Oppositions have had that.

luxury for cc~nl::ur· i.es, !'::1V~n· s i.ncr~

there has been a par1iament. We

cl o no t: h a v e ~-. h a t 1 u x u r· y . T f I~H~

had sat biHI< i:lnd Jet- the r•c-:dltAJay

t. a k e --j_ ~-- s nat. 1.1 r· a l r: o u r· s e ;,, n d d · i_ e-~ ,

what IAJould bE:1 the debate :in t:hj s

H o u s e to d a y ? T. f a d c~ c -i. !o i. o n '"":\ !> atnnounc~d 1 Sep t embE'!r 1988 that

t he r·.::~ i.li~Jc'\Y ~~~·~:; goi.ng l:o b1~ c:l.os,~d

do1~tn s:ix months froru tha'l. dcdP.,

I~Jhdl : WOIJl.r.l be~ l : hc~ c:l~1bi·\i : t-) 'Jn l: h i. s

Hous8 .nexi Spring, Mr . Sp~ak~r·?

I!Jho c,~Jould !:H:! l ,C:1dd i.ng 1-.hr'' rhd:),'l 1-y,

who I.UCJuld bE'! le-aad:ing the char·gE'!,

dl·:lS I· i.!dng .:tnd cond:~ mn · i. ng I: he-)

governmet'd. for not hC::tvit·lg

rlege)l: i. ~i : ~) d .:1 d:,1al? ~~he) IJ.I!)Itld ·i. -1 :

bc-1, Mr . Spee~ker? It 1.uould be the

saute-) pc-,opl.e ,._,ilo cannot s c~ (~

Cli'IY'I.hing good :in i his par·-t icular

del:tl h>day, i. ~. Llloul.d be~ UH~

ljb~raJ Party, Mr. Speaker, the

party whi.ch i.s agai_nsr. everythi.ng,

ihe party which finds nothing good

tn anything and is totally

negative . No, Mr . Speaker, U.Je

O.Jii!re no l: pr·epar·ed to do l: hrl ·l: . We

wer·e prepared, and we did j n fact

take our respons ·i.b.:i.1i.ty seri.ousl.y.

I 3 4-3 l June /1, 1988 Vol XI

AN HON. MEMHER: (Inaudible) .

MR. RIDEOUT: r-1o r· 1-'! H1.:~ i 1 Ull,1 Fnough l:o be

hon . tJ.Je 1.1

re -i. r· :; i . b~lllo l:' rJJt• .

is ruot"c,, than thE: go: -_.

~)OMF liON. r"'t=:Mf1 F.:RS : 1-lE!r.H', hc->.ar'!

MR. HAf~f~ETT :

And nol. a kni.F(! out~ .

MR. RIDFOUT:

9 r.:1r1ll c-;! man go:-_ . ahE!ad on thE!

~) p t~ ''' k :~ r· , l.~olh .-L c h hon. gontJ E~ITli:ln

And not a knife out . That -.is

r-i.ght.

Thr~ hon. gpnt-_l(-?.ITidl'l l:.dlks about:.

constitutional responsibility. I

a rn no i-: 1 e a r n e d i_ n UH->. 1 a 1~1 , I <.~ m

certainly only a simple-mjnded

Pf'!r'snn when i r. COrrlf~S 1.:0 th!'::1 li'-l.U.I,

but I have to take aduice from

l:.h!)SE~ tAJho ar·t~, t!lnd !::hose'! t~Jho ar'P,

Mr. Speaker, tell us that we do

no 1·. hi.-\VH cons -t-. ·i_ Lu 1-. -i.ondl. pr'otect: i.on.

MR . Wfl..l.S: Sharnt>!

MR. RIDFOUT: T di.d il~:d : :i.nth'nl: i:hdl:, Mr·.

SpE"akE-!r'. The hon. Lc->.aclc:H' of l he

0 p f> o :d l: i. o n s ,_., y :; , ' :-) h i:\ 111 1-~ • 1 We ll ,

thE~ hon. I E:1adE:!In of thE'' Oppo~;j t '.i.on

il•-1s l:ll'>Pn kno1~1 fi"Oill 1-_ i.II'IH t-_o l irn::! ·t--o

glue good legal advice. He has

l:):::f-:11'1 knot~ll'l i-r·om l:irnn t-_o 1--_-L rnc:! l.:o

gJve bad legal advice. He has not bH:~n lOO pi?.t' Ct'!l'll: spol- -on aJ1 L:he

Lime,~ jn his 1egr.l1 adu'icE•, Mr·.

~peal<er. Thera are cnrporat:1ons

and entitie:s in thjs Pr'ovince, Mr.

Specll<~~t·, '~Jho hau<,1 sought t.he hon.

gentleman's aduice. Some have

~HHHl suct:f:1Ssfu1, sorne have bE:en

unsuccessful. Most tha-I: haVE! bE•en

s u c c: €:1 s s F bil , M r· . :-) p t,1 d !((~ r· , L f my

memory serves me correctly,

occur·(~d t.l.lh(>.n t.:hE:1 hon. gE!nl~_lornan

No. 60 (FvE~njng) R34-31

ydVt:~ ddlJ"LCt:~ ;:~g;r i. ilS1 : pos·i.Li.on~; l·.hdi: thP Prov :inc:e hcH~ 1akr,an. HP has been Vt·~t'Y good di: i·Jli'li·. , r-1t' . SpE:~ai<E~ln . That has b~>.en ev:i.denced ·in UH:~ oFF~;hor·e, i:i'H'! Chur·clli.ll Fa11s J"ecaJ.J ca ~;p, and thjngs of Lhal: l'lcl'l::ur·c->., uJhc'!t'c->. l:: ht-) hon . gentleman gave advice that o b v i. o u s l y p d i. d o f f f ot' 1-. h t->. c l. i. e n h; he represented. I have no problem

Lu L t h t. h a I~ . T h a t ·i. ~; h :i. s r :i. g h t-. to do, and hE! L~JC1S in that business, dnd T assuJnl:~ he->. got. propf>.r'ly remunerated For the advice that he 9E1l)(:~. T CISSl.ITIIl~ ht:~ d "i. d.

8 u l: n e v f'! t' '1:-. h H l ~ '! ~; s , M r . S p ~~ d k t'! t' , 1-. o fol 1 01~1 up on thE:' po-l nt I was Tlldk·i.ng, 1·1'11:! fi:lcl~ of 1-.hc:• Jnr.ll:i:c,~r- ·i. ~ ; t herP. 1~J:i ll pr·obabJ.y bf:! cl lot of l og<~l. i:lchJ icc,~ on e i Lhet' s·i.de of 1-.1-w q IH'! s Li o 1'1 • R iJ t i. he bE:~ 5 t ] E:~ g a 1 .:1 d v ·i. c: f-) a u .:·l i. l. d b l. e 1: o 1: h c-) C t' o IJJn , L o h~!r M<!lje~dy ·-

Mr~. lr~EII . S :

T"'blc'! i .hn op·i.n i.on .

f.JJR . lU 0 fOtJT: WP d:i d. The:! "i. i: yHs'i:c:H'day,

hon. Premjer Mr . Speaker .

SOME HON . MEMRFRS : No.

MR. RIDFOUT:

tab] E:~d

He d l cl s o l: a b l t->. i 1: . M t' . S p f~ a k (->. r , it was tabled and the answer to t: h t'! que s t:. i. on lAid s I= h d 1: l: he P r' o v i. n c: c.~ did not have, jn terms of rna .int.ai.n i.ng the r·ai luJi.-l!f, a constitutional guar·antee. The Prov ·ince di.d not have it.

So , M r· . S p e a k e r , d o y o u t h e n , haui.ng i:he b(,~sl : elc:lt.Ji.cc:~ 1-:hdl: i~; ctVa:iJ abJ E~ to you as a gover·nment r't:~s pon s i. bl e l:o l : ht~ F>c-~ opl t:~ IJJho c J e c: i f! d you , t r y ·. i n g ·t o pro v :i de t b f! b 1;~ :; l: go v 1-H ' nn~<-:Hl l: l:o 1: h 1-:: pc~ n p 1 ~ of i h ~~ P r· o lJ :i. n c 8 , do y o u t. o '1. i::l. J J y i . gn or· t-~ i ·. h ~~ l : ? f.lo yo 11 i. grHH'c} l :h;~ l: ? WcwJd :i.'l' b~~ J"esponsjbJ~~. Ml".

1.3'1-]2 .Tun~:~ 21., 191l8 Vol XL

Spt:~r.\ket', for· i:h · i . ~; golJc"!t'nrnr:~nl·: 1-.o ignore the best J egal adv :i ce ·that c;!lllpl.oyc.~HS or 1·:1-le Cr'OIJJn dild oul::s.i.d~~ lawyers gave us? Would it be r'r>.spol'ls·i.ble for· 11s l:o do t:hdt:, dnd t:o lead this Province into probably sever~l. years of litigation, which would be great for· lai~IYfH' S, Mr. ~5p e db'!r', but. where would the rajJway be at that poi.nt i.n l: "i.lnP? Wher·e IAJoul.d l.:hr::• employees of the railway be at i:. hdl:: po'i.nl~ "i. n i· i.Jnc->.?

Thd~ WdS dl'l

that wa s o p 1·: .Lon , M r . availcd:l] E!

Speaker, to tho

g o lJ c:H' I'll n H n 1'. . 1,~ c"! c o 1.11. cl h a v e ·i. g nor· t'! cl the advice of OUl" lege1l employE'!BS a n d 1: h H l .. :u~J y f;! r' s ' .:·l n d s d ·i. d ' II r h (·:! heck with it. We lhJnk - Tom f? . i d f.! 0 II I: , l .:l y fH~ t' !) r Hl , :r t m r.JJo r· g <.'1 n , Or. TiAJOrney, uJho~~VEc!r, yo11 •'lt'c) ~~Jt'ong, r.'lnd IW:'

J aypE!Y'SOI'I

forget your advice "' t' :~ g o · i. n g 1': o and IJ.Je ar'~'·

9 o i. n g L o flll t ' !; 1 1 c'! i:Hl o I: h H r· .:-\ v f.! n IH~ . 11

We could l1r.1Ve don(->. thi:d~. That:·. was i-Hl opi·. i.on . ~~c.,~ do no\ U r i.nk i . l': IJ.Jds a respon~dbJ e opt'ion. We do no I l:h·i.nk -.i. l-. I)Jc)lll.d l"ldl.J O be('!rl V~H'Y responsJbJe lo the employees of l:he t'd'i.l. I~I.:-\Y. IAIH clc) not l::h i.nk i. l.: wou1d have been very responsible ~o the travel.l ·Lng public of Newfoundland and Labrador. We do nol: thtnk i.t IAJOLil.d havc~! bE!en responsible at all. Mr. Speaker. So , -1: h ~H' c·'! f o r' (:~ , IAJ' L 1:: h 1'.: h a t·. c:H:IlJ .i. c e :i. n our back pocket avajlable to us, we chose ~o do the only olher alternative that was available.

SOMF HON. MfMBFRS: ~ sellout.

MR. RIDFOUT: Thi:\l: ·1.!; no 1: ;_~ s c->.llou i·:, SpE:~al<er· . That is not a sellout .

Mr. SpE.~ai<E~r·. l:he art:isl.s •; I~ l_l, 0 II 1-. ~ ; . i. rl 1\Jt:'t~;f 011 nd l . a nd I cc!:llnetdOi" arE:l r'Ppr·esc:'n ·l· E~d on 0 1-.h::!t' ~; ·j rle or L h '.i. ~) 11 0' I s t:~ .

Mr· .

of and thE:'

1\Jo . 60 (F:veni.ng) :n11.32


MR. RTDFOUT: That :is a fi:lct of history . You do

tl 0 1:. h ct v n l: l) g I) v (:H' y f r'l t' i. n Hl!:~

pages of hj stor·y. you do not even

h au e l-. o go b.:~ c k i. n .:~ n ci. l:~ n l: l·l'i. s hH' y

:i 1'1 N E·H~rf o u n d 1. d n d a 1'1 d 1.. i'.l b I" ad o r' ·l o

r "i. n d o 11 t: ~~~~-l'i c r, p o 1 ·i H c ,., 1. p o:H' :-. y r'C-' p I"P S ~-!rd. !) ·[ hE'! !U~ ll (.ltd iH' ·I :i S t:, .

ll. i. ~; nol: !)lJf.!t' hcH'H, Mr'. ~~pHd!(HI",

·. i.l :i.~~ OUPI" lhE'!I"E'!. Th(~y i'.II"P HIE:'

•H'f:·i . Sh:~ Of l:i-11'! ~;t~l.lUIIi". fi·\Cl-.tH'.

~>Or"! F :-1 ON . r1 FM 11 F f~ ~> : I-IE'!i'U". I1E:~a1"!

~1R. RJDFOUT : Take ~~IJ.O 1ni 'l.l."i.on "i.nsh~•'ld oF

miJlion, or tAJhateUE!I~ tt :is, lfOUr IJIOU th, 90 hom<-:~ r:tncf yOU

be better of . That is

'!>a:~ rj

shut IJ.J i.l.J

the

I . "i. b <0! r a l. no nr i. c s , M r' . 5 p lO! a I< E! t' . That

is the L:UJE!ra1 nomics that have

coml-~ from t.he o t-.l'H:H' s i.de. So you

negot:i ate a deal, and I haVE! no

hE:~sJl:ation i.n go "i. ng beforr~ l·:he

pubJic of this Prov:lnCE!, anyt.~.JhelnE!

i. n 1:: h f~ P r' o v i. n c F.• , p c:\ t' t-. i. c ul. a t' 1. y rn y

constttuents, and saytng that this

d<·H~l. ·i.s good for' Nc-~bJfoundl.dncl and

Labrador·. I can say -)t, Mr'.

s FH~ a k r~ r . 1.1.1 i. 1-. h no f t:~ '" r o F s h •'~ 111 f:~ .

Let i.hosH who have ~;harne hanging

at' o u n d l·. h c,~ -i. t' Mr·. Spf!ClkE·!I", h!-.'t'l-:~ .

hr~dds bo1~1 -i.n shr:Hllc,~.

but· they ai~P no·!: OVE·!I"

scmr liON. r~FMflFf?S :

H E'! <H· , hE-! a 1~ !

Ml~. FnOF.OUT :

!. P t- ·t· h o ~; E:! tJ.JI1 o sup p or· t a p o 1 :i t· i c a 1

p h i lo s o p h y i: h d t h •'I !i I: h r~ s h d Hlt~ S o f

ihe past around their heads bow

t h ,.d_ T' h e d d !) • b l.l i: L h 1-'! y rH' f~ n C) t: 0 v ~~ i"

here, Mr. Spec-lker.

SOMF HON. MFMRFRS: HrO!ar·, hE>.iH'!

MR. RTDf.OUT:

I 3 4-3 3 June 21, 1988 Vol XL

We wilJ be able to say to future

gener'r.l.tions oF Net>Jfound1anders and

Labradorians that even though

fi. fl~ ~~r.~n ye ars i .s not ver·y much

compared to sixty-five, we will be

"lbl.t~ l: c) S•"IJ H1.~~~ ~~ven l~ hough

fif t een years :i.s only a drop in

i: hc·) bllci<f~l : c mnp.H't-'!d l·. o si.xl:y - F·i.ve,

t~Je IAJe re not E:'U en prE' par E>.d l:o p u L

o 11 t' !; ·i. g n d l-.11 r· ,,, !; on yo 11 r' b ~:! h a 1. f 1:. o

that k:i nd of an agi"E:!t.'!nwni.. W<->. <H'<''

l:oo c:..-111 L 'i.Olt~;' l~lC:~ .:·\i"H l:no c:oncr:•l"l'lHd

fOt' ti·IE:' fu ·l UI"E:•, IJ.JE'! ar'E• l 00

hypc~d -11p I;.J'i. !.h H11-~ f,·\C L !·.h..-1 1: l·: ili nq•;

rn:ight changE>. t.oo rnuch on us OUEH'

f·i . fl:c:!c>.n yt'!iH'S, so t~JC! t;.JOt.lld nol:-.

eVE!n j nk thclt kind of an ;:~gr·c~ ,,~lfltH1i~ . Thi. •; governmenl: t,uas so

responsibJ e t hat it would not c:onl : t,~ mpl..::~l : c~ !>i.gn ·i.ng l: hc-tl: kind of

an agreement. and it !Alas not

push~~ d dou.m OIJt' l: hror.l. b> l:o sign

that kind of an agreement . We

said, no, we wi11 go about half

way, we will go about eight

ye.~ rs . T.rnag i. n~ if yc)U had gone

twe nty on the other one, Mr .

Speakc-H'. We~~ tJ.Joul.tl have t''igh ·ts l:o

negotiatE! today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: H r'! a r' , h 1:'! d r' !

MR. RTOFOUT: You would not haue

h ulfl·i. l . ·i_ • -~ 1: u d ~d t-. l·.-i. n g

Province today with ·i. n

the

to be thi.s

Supreme

Co c 1 t' t: c: r· ::I 1 ,, co 11 n t· t ' 'J say i. n l~

cannot E:!Vl::>n s:ii"· ciOLIJI'l drld ·l:aJk

~;i)<Ly oclrl yc)di"S.

you r (ll"

MR. MORGAN: 'f o 11 I•Jo 11l. c:l no L b ,,. t;.JO r' r' ·i ::! d 1-1 b o 1.1 I~

maintenance costs.

MR. RIDEOUT: Yn1.1 IAJOI.I .. I.d no 1: br~ IJ.Jor'ry"i.ng about

maintenance costs, Mr. Speaker. A

l. i. 1-. i".l.l,~ s Hid ll. .:l g r' o (~ rn(:! n i ·. 1. ·i.l< c,~ a

fifteen year agreement, a

go v c·>. r rHll fHl t t h <:d: Wd s so pol. U: i c a 11. y

determined to protect the future

o F ·i. l ... s t' l.;! s .i d (~ n 1:. s !-. h a 1-. i. t. s a i d , n o


I;Jo~y oH'I:' I;J!,~ go·i.ll9 i·.o si.gn Uli.'ll: l.t.r.i l h 0 Ill cl I" E:!C.q:HHI EH' S 0 l hat We Can c om p d t' '~ , h ,., 1; ~~ '" l.o o k , r ,,~as !; c,' s !; , cHid SE-!E! ::if ·li1E~ dE:!iilJ :l s world ng the \;Jo'l y 1-. h '" L I~H~ t,~ n wi. s :i. on t~d ·i. 1: 1~10 11l. d l.t.IOI"k :i.n ] 988 WhEHI IAJe ~d gned j l.. r- h <:1 1: ··j s lA I h y L h d L r h ;w H n I) hPs :i'lat.:ion :in ~;ay:ing that this par·t-i.c:ul..n· agr·c~f?.IIH)nl: ·i. s an i'.lgt'EH:!mt:Hlt l..hat has a u:iston for· t h c.:> F u t. u r· e i n 'i. t. . L t i. s n o t·. .:1 n clgr·c,~E!I'IIent, Ml". Speaker, Uwt: IJJas s ·i. g rH"! d l.t.li 1: h b l. .i n kf:or· s on , no 1: worry:ing about whether tomorrow is goi.ng l:o chc1nge, get: l::ht.:o fdsl: polii:'.icaJ. boost out of it and the heck I;J.i.i':l·l l.t.Jhat: hdppEHIS l::fHl CH' f:iH·een yecli"S dotJJn the road. That. hd~; nPUc·?.r bf~f'!l'l t:h<:' .:tppr'o.:tch of th·j s party, Mr·. Speaker. That has bE~en l:hf) dppr·oach of ol:hc"!t' poJit.:icaJ par·t:iE:!s in the htstor·y o f 1\Jr,~ I; I f o 1.1 n d l. .:t n d d n d I . d b t' d d o t' , b 11 t :i ·t- h a s n o 'I b e E:!l'l t h e a p p r· o a c h of Uri.s p.u·l·.y, •.Hid 'i.l: i.!; no:-. go·i.ng l·.o bE·! thE-~ app!"oaclt of thJs pCirty, Mr. ~> I'' ,,~ <:1 k tH' . ~~~ 1-:• h d 1.1 {·) p r' n ·l:f~ c: I: i. u n . ~.J ~-~ ltiHIE~ dCCCirupJ:j~;hE:!d l.t.lhdl HliHIY IIJOU]d iH'':!jll!'! i, n Ull'! COI~I"t ' !) or i:ll'i.s l;~nrl and l.hE~ hon. gE-!ITl-J E:!fllan n1:ight on b:~h;.-1l.F or solnl:'body u:- he,~ 1'1~-:~t'1,~ s t J. J J o ~~ t :i. n U1 P. p r' :i u atE~ s e c tor I;H~ hi'ld no r·i.ghl: l·.o dCC:Oinpl.'i.sh. ThE-~r·e tJJould be many, I think, IJJho would cH'gue :~.h•~J-. I;JH accornpl i.shHd what IJJE:1 had no dght to accornpljsh under the law, what we had no r·:ight to accompJtsh under' the c o n s I~ -L L u L i. o n , tJJ h d t IAJ f?. h d d n o r' "i. g h t. to accomplish for the people of this Prouince. There would be people who I..I.Jould argue that, but 1:: h i. s go v e r' nrnc,1 n l: s t: 1.1 c k 1: o i. t. s guns , Mr. Speaker, and made sure that futurE:~ genE~ral:tons oF Nei..I.Jfoundlanders and Labradorians IJJf~t't1 not: go-Lng to bE~ pE~n;:~l.·i. 7.c~d. If therE:~ was one shred of a c h oHl c [·~ I i. r- 1-: h C:H' [~ I~Ji:l s ()l'lf~ s h r' IH:I () f an oppCir't urd ty t.hc.d·. llJe couJ d rH~ y u 1: ·i. d 1: ~~ .:·1 p <'l c !< d O:;J c,~ ·i: o · 'LHlf>r' o I,Jt.;! 1:11 :~ tJ"iHISPOI''-tc.d:i.on systP.rn :in Nf~l;;rollndl.dnc:l e1nd I ;,1bt'i:'lc:ior· 1:11<'1 1: I~J0-1!;

I 34 3li JlJI'I(:' '}J, ]988 Vol XL

HH) po!d. ;·i.on 1 ~l!t'. ~)pc~db:~r·, 1;11;, adopted, thclt 1.11as the pos:i t .:i on 1: h<.~ \: 1;11-~ c .n·r·-i. 1-:'d ·i. n 1-.n d ·i. .::~l.ogu E?. 6t nd negot:iat:i.ons !Adth thE:1 GouE!nHrJE!nl~. of c.~ni'ldi:l on 1-.1-l'i. !; mai".h·>.r'. FVlHl i.F tl·1c1t shi"E!d was only lTIOI"a], E:~~JC;~n if l:hc=!t'l"! l~ldS no shr'C'!d oF constitut:ionaJ rPsponstb:iLLI:y, but ~~uen ·i. F -i.l: l;Jd~; only trtor'dl. you hdlH:' an obligat:ion to E:'nSUI"E! that LhE" pHopl.H of 1\Jr,'I'Jfoundldnd dncl Labrador ar'E! pr·ovidE!d tAli th an <"! n h d n c r=! d L r' d n s p u t' 1·: a 1: i. t) n s y s 1-. E'! 1 n . You haUE! an obligation to ensui~E· l·:h<-11·: i::he C::!rnpl!)yer-=!s dt'e l·~ai<Hn Ci:-1r'r,, of, you haue an obligation to ~-~ n s u t' I·'! , .. _1·1 d l:: c f~ t' L"' ·i. n 1-:c:u~.m '> .i. n 1-.: h i s Prouince that were historically dt-~pC:~nd,:·1nt on i·:h(·~ r·a-i.ltAii'lY havE~ d fair degree of deuelopment opptH't:url'i. ·l:y offc'!l"f:!cl i::o t·:hr::'lfl 1 dl'1d 1

Mr. Speaker, 1.ve IJJere ab]e to dCCOITipl.i.sh l:h<·1i· ..

f"'nd I;Jhi·1i: do yn11 1-Jc,~.-.H' Fr·nrn unn r-Hld to tht~ oHH>.r' of NE!IArfoundland and I . .:·1 b r' ;-1 do i" rnCt.j o r"i t y

1-. !) d i·1 y ? T l 1 (:! Uol~> ·1: 1 l)i'IS l: of pE:!OpJ P T havE·! ·taJkE>d

Ln c)lJc~r- Ulr! li-t~; l: have I~WE:~n Scly:i ng it·

SOMF l-ION. MFMBERS : li c~ .~ t' , h o i'l r !

MR. RIOF.OIJT:

•; :~ l) H t' d l is t:irnE~.

hour'!,;

There comes a time, Mr. Speaker·, l.t.il'l(!n govf~t·nmenl-:s havE:! t.o gov<H' n I

and th:is gouernrnent doE:~s not mind acc:c=•pi·.oi.ng 'i.l·:s r'PSpt)ns:i.b"i.l. i.ty to gouern.

That is IAihat 1..1.1e IAJerE• E!lected for. T. F d n d IAih en , Mr' . S p c,~ a k e r', the people lAJant to changE! that, Ud s ·i. s no 1: So u l:: h n f t' 'i. c d , M r' . S p E:! a k <'! t' , this is not Nigeria, lAJherC"! you h"' 1; ~~ l: o go t;J'i. 1: h d g u n •'1 n d s d y u o 1-. e for that person. Oespi te what. you hodt' ft'Oifl l:hP Oppos-i.l: i.on, IAH:' dt'e IJJilJing to put our names on a dot:IITIIenl: dfh:H' CoH't~f11l. nc-)gol:. "i.dl·."i.on and consideration, and IAIE1 arE:' I~Ji . l. l·i.ng 1-.r) p11i ·. l:l1n t'l·'!j:llll'.dl:·i.un of

No. 60 (FUE!I'ling) R3434

the gov er·nHie nt L·H~ hi. nd i. ·r·.

it to the people, Mr.

That is I~Jha(: deJnoct'dCY

about.

SOME HON. MEMRFRS: H <-?.a r· , h :->.a r· !

MR. RIDFOUT:

•l nd ta k ~=! Speaker. is r:ll.l.

:)o I~Jh.:-11: I~JA ~;~~~~' ft'Oifl Hw ol ·_ht~r·

~:idf~, Mr·. SpE:!aker·, js a whole

b u n c h o f" f e ,-., r· s . T h 1,, r· o i ~; 1: h :~ f e .:-1 r·

of 1 h:i.~; l"a:iliAJay dE!r:ll.. ThE~Y tJsecl

I.() ' vI'! t' y t: d I I L •i. ()II~; l y ·i. i 1 q II t-:• ,, ·I· .. i I) il

P f:! I" :i. o d o v e I" 1 he J Ci ~''I" :. f·! vera J

rnnn Lh~; I Hs k l i l· ll :) qtl:)s 1: i.ons ;_.1b011 L

:if. Thc~y nf"llf~r· dE~]lJed vei"Y much

Ot' I'H'!lJ(o't' Sp!Hll'. d l.ol: of l·.i.1111;! ,·.1[:

i i , b td v P r· y c aut j o us 1 y b <-:>cause

l·:i·ldi: could ·i.nl:err"r:!t':~ 1~ri. l:h 1-.1-w

gna1d des:) gn of thE:! hon. leader· of

Hw Pat' 1: y o p po s .. i. 1 ... ~~ . nw t'*~ 1~1.:1 s 1 ... ht-:~

fear· of the Province bej ng flu k ie

enough, betng Clbl. ~~ l: o nt::!got·ia t:n ~'

good transportatjon deal for

N N1.1 f o u n d l. iHl c1 a n d 1.. d b r c-.H:I or . T h a t.

was the fear, Mr. Speaker.

There is C1 fE!CH' on thE! opposite

s i cl e I M r· . S p 1::~ a k e r' I a n d t-·JH'! r· H . .i. s a

fear j n high corporate places in

this Prov ·i.nct==! U1dl: those things

might come about including the one

T j u s 1: lfHHl t-. i. o n fH:I . T h r-?. r· e i. s

nothing u.Jorse than paying for

so1nt:~th:Lng, Mr. :)pc,~di<l:H' I bwfot'H you

9 ( ;! +.: :it .

SOME HON . MFMRFRS : He~r. hesr l

1'1R. R:r fH~ OUT:

:)o l:hl)t'l:' 'i. ~> l:lla L r~~i:H' .

T !·1 (H' E~ 1.1.Jd s '" f eiH' ·t. hat t.J-d s

govr-~r·rnnc~nL rrri.<.:~hL sorneho1~1 or· oUJt-:!t' 1

by hook or· by crook, by fJul<e or

clPI:E!t'm·i.l'li:1t'i.on Ot' good gOVI·)t'l'llflfHll·.,

or a comb:i na·l ion of all three,

rw g o ~~ 'i. a ~~- e a l:r' a n s p o t' I: r."' 1-:i. o n p e~ c k .:-1 g f>.

for the people of Newfoundland and

Labr·aclor' Th~>.Y'f>. IA.IdS a Fb'H' I r'lr''

Spec1ker, that Ud:. governrnE!ni:, by

1.3435 J Ll I'H~ 2 :1. I l 9 B 8 Vol. XI .

hook or· by cr·ook or· by good

government, might be able, with

HH~ h e l. p of I~ h e Go v E~ t' nrrH-?. n t. o F

Canada, pull off Hibernia. They

r:tr'C:' lt'Hifibl.tng i.n l-:111-~i.l" shof~SI Mt'.

Speaker, that we will pull off

H i. b ~~ r· n · i. d .

SOMf HON. MEMRERS : lh~ iH' I l·w .u· !

Ml~. rnnrour: T l'l "' I" "' '] .. ,, - ... :;- ·F· f~ "\ In M I" c; !') ,, .. , I< ''·' I" 1- 1'1 "l 'l"

~.:: .. ~.:: .. . . ~' c" .. c , . '·· r c. c.a. "· , .. c ..

~>I)IIJ:)hUt;J or· o I ill'!!' l.h ·i ~,; !:Jl)lJ:'!I"rJIIIt:~l'il'.: I

by co - operation wJ1h the COl)(!t'i'llllCIII: ur Qllt:~bi~C. rni.ghi ·. pu"IT

off sornE! lei nd of a coup j n ·l.te>l"rll~>

or l:lli·11: ·i . nr"diiiOII~> Chi.it't;h -i."l.l :: dl.'l•;

Agr·e(~rrJE:lnt., and crea·l e fur·ti·IE'!I"

dr·~UldOplllen 1: i. n l.abt'ddor·. 'Theil i·: ·is

a fear, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hc~!dr, hE:~d.r!

MR. RTDEOUT: And there Speaker, government

was a l::ha I~ could

fourth fE•ar I Mr·. even if the not SUCCE!E!d on

any of 1-. h o sf'! I or· on u n E:' or· l:.iAJO

God forbid!, all three, even

Ulr:t1-. c.hd no 1: h<:1PfJCoHl l·.:hPr'c-?.

another fear, that sornEd10IA.I

o 1-:hf>.r ...

AN HON. MfrJ!BFR :

Ot' I

i.f I~JRS

or

What about thr:' Sprung gl"E!E!nhousc'•?

l~lDFOUT : Mf?. "f. c-:lm n c) ·t IAJorl"'i ed, Sj In I abou L

1>'1ilipr:dgn i nq ·i. n

Vert<-:! on thf'~

n I) {: 0 i I lo~ b · j_ 1: •

I ll H ~; 1-. t ' (~ r:! I ~> u f Fl d -j !:'!

Sprung grrH:!nhou~;E:!,

Mr·. Speaker, there lAJas cHlol:hE•r

i'lol t'lt'. Th~-:~r·e ~~~·~s d fear· Lhd 1-.

somehotAJ or another the goVE!rnrne·nt

I~IOLil.d llld k H S Ut'Co~ i:hd 1.: l.:hP. Pf~Opl.r-~ 0 f

·NetAJfoundland and I. abrador sal.t.J LhE•

t'E~r'l.J. l. ·i.berr:-11. Pdt'i-:Y undr~r Uw I'H'!IAJ

l. i be r a 1 l. e ad E! r . That was a f E! a r ,

Mt·. Spoakc->.r.

No. 60 (F.vr-?.tring) R3 4-3 5

SOMf HON . MFMRFRS : l-1 :~ i.·l t' , h P r:·l r' !

I'-1R . RTDFOlJT : And, M1··. Sp~~i::t I< C·H', :U has br::~ en donn, i 1: hrl~; bc~Hn ·~·lc, :o Hip 'l." i.sh~~d . T1~1o of ·1 hose f E:1a r· s ha u e ·t- tH' IlE:'C~ ou t· l:o blc) Hllc'

Oppos :i i :i.on d t ' Cc) dIll!.'! cf 0 i- . i I.II"I'Wd ou·l-

IAIO t' S [:

party TIAIO

lo be::)

fc~.:n·~; l·.h;~ l: couJd

or 1-.ho!;:~ the l.IJOI"S t

l:lH~

have rt:!ar·:; fear's

I" h A l-. l: h ('! i. r· -J. n l) ~~ S hH' S C 0 U-1 d h r'W ~~ E:'uer' dinc,)i'liTied of; Mr'. SpeakE!!".

No1A1 they art'! not: sur'P any mor·e. The people of Newfoundland and L.abr·ador' have b ee n ques l: "i.orl"i.ng i::hc'! Leader of the Oppositjon for s~wc,H'al rnon+:hs, Mr'. SpHakc->.r. Th~!Y have be e n wondering is this really HH>. p e r· s o n IAJC->. IAir:t n t t-.: o t:Hl 1·: r' u s I~ 1~1 "ll: h our future direction? They have b ~~en as ~ i. n g que s -1: ions db o u 1: 1: he 'lr'tJst factor·, t.uhether' they could really Lt'J.Is l: l·:he ftl'l":tH'n d-i.r·:~c: 1:-i.on of N~~t.\lfoundJ nnd C~nd L abrader in Uw hr:lilds or i':hdl-. hon. ~:Jic'l'll:l.eHlr.Hl.

It~::! ki' lOI~J, l-or' HXdfllplc:!, or C: a I I d j d ii ·( E-1 ~; IAl h 0 h c~ U E:! b E:1 EHI i. n l'.c~ t' lJ"i. : =!I)JI~ r.l i'Ji'l! I g t' ·i l .l r~ d oHl d l·J d II-, (~ rl OV€'r' ·t h~~ coals c:-.~nd br·ought back :i.n rOt' d !)r,~COrld ·i.ni:C'!t'tJ'i.r->.IA), I~JhO pr·om:i :.nd to r·un but· ar·e noto~.J gf~l:l: · i.ng i.n 1:ouch s;:ly:i.ng, 11 No 1~1ay! J rtiTI hav:i ng nothing to do 1..ui th 1-.l·ld 1'. pdr' l'.y. 11

SOME liON. ri!FMBF r~S :

Hear, hear'!

r-1 R . R T D F. 0 U T : Mr. Speaker, there was a time over the last few t,o,leeks l,o,Jhen I thought that the worst kept secret jn NeiAJfoundland and Labr·ador t..uas !:he~ future of the railway. But over 1.: h e 1. a s t: lo~H:! e k cH' h:! n d a y s , o n t h e politice1l ~cene of Newfoundland and l. abr·ador, Uw '~lor·~;;: kept s e c r· e_t :i s t.o~.l hat h a s b ~=! e n hap p e n i n g l ... o i·:hf'! s hH' cand i.d.:-1 l·.t=! s Uld t·. l:hr'! hon. g~~nt J eman J :i ned up. They

1. ]II.] (j .June,' 21, 1.91313 Vol. XI .

ha~H:! been faJ ling, Mr· . SpE:~akc-..r .

SOMf HON. MFMRFRS: H ~~ •:\ t' , h t:! r.1 t' !

MR. rn:Dr.OUT : So, Mr·. Speaker, l:.IAIO of t.he:ir' 1•10 I'' S l: r (! oH' S h •'tlJ H C: 01111·~ d bo U 1-.. Thc->.r'e has beE:1n a good, depE:1ndabJ P, lr.~<:ri.l·.·i.u~o:-ll :r:• , honr,1sl~ , t'dl·.-ion.::tl. dei•ll. on the future of transportation in Net~lfoundl and <·lilcl La br·ador· negotiated by this government. That has happened.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : H~1ar, hc~'i:H'!

M:~. rHDf.OUT: Secondly, thE! people have SE!en thE! rt~i•l l l.oi.bf'!t'i.·ll Par·;~y unr:lt·'!t' thl:! leadership of thE! han. gE:'n-llE!rnan. rhH peopl.P hdVC,1 Sf~f:~n i·:.hi:\ [·. and l: ht:1Y are talking about il no end . I h f'! . :~ r· .i. l: t:! tJ ('! t' y 1~1 h ~~ t' ,,, T g o .

r1nd oi.l: jr1sL 1rri.ghi: !:H'! , Mt' . Speaker· - God fcn·b:i.d! - - Lhat ly·i ~;Lory lAI~.i J 1 11 o L b e I o o k i. n cl I: o i-11 i ~; p d I" l". y i n thE:' nex ·l f(,!l.o~.l lAJE:1ek~; and rnunths; for l·.l"w s ,•) k H 0 r Uw hon. g r:!i) Ll C·l.lllrHl' ·j (-. jus ·! m:ight be->., Mr·. Spc,'r.d<t=!r'.

MR. TULK: [1·. is l : ·i. Hlf~ l:o ddjoun1.

iJJf~. lUDF.OUT : Mr·. SpE!aker·, I l'lav~'! thE! dght Lo d d j (liJr' rl ~~ h Cc' d P b d b~ .


MR. TULK : Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thr·?. hon. HH>. lflfHn~wr for· Fogo.

r·1R. TUI .. K: I hate to j n ·tE•r1nupt thE~ hon. genl'.l.C,'lfldi'l 1 !; SflH:>.r:h b(~Ci£\LISE! IA18

intend t.o settle h:irn dol.lll'l anoth~~r·

No. ()() ( F IJ :) n ·i. n g ) ~~]ll.3(i

way. RtJt on a poj nt of or·dE:~r, the Gouer'nHlt:Hll: !·louse:~ l_r~r~d,·H' has askc->.cl this side if we would consent to a tc->.n o'clock HH:~I:!I'.:i.ng l~.ornor·r·ow

mornj ng of thl:' Legislatur·e. I say t.o the hon. genl~. lc,~tn<:ln l·:hdl: tJJc~ he1U(:~

a couple of more peopJ.e tAJho tAJant

to speak on this issue. Before

Your Honour leaues the Chair at 10:00, as he hi:'ls 1-.o, t - IAJr::tn 1: l'.o

sE:~ek a b:i t. of information ft"orn the hon. gHnll.C!I'lli'Hl as l~o t;JI'J:"!I·Jlt:!t' t;Je

are meeting ~t ~en o'clock or no 1: . r h r~ b <'~ ll. i. !; c:! n 1: i. r· o 1 y i n 11 i =>

cour·l.

DR . CO 1.1 . T.l\1:'> : Mr. SpeNker, J gaue 'l.hE'! c..nstAH'!r

bnl:h l:o Hl!'! llott:;n lei.·Hk!r' oppos·.i.i:E!

iHtd t-o thE~ I. Padet" of the Op po s i. 1: ion . H11-~ i:1t'r'i.Hl<J ~)Hif'! n L t;li'l =>

1410. had pr·:iur.lt:E:~ d:i.scus~dons whe'l.hc,!r I'J~~ I'JOitl.d COHlf:~ bi:1C k I:OII'IOt'T'OI;I

mot"ningl jn 1hE:~ inter·E:~st of the,~

p P. o pl. e o f 1·: h i. s P r· o u i. n c ,.~ , a t 9 : 3 0

and get jnto JegisJaUon to pass sornH b·i.l.l.sl i:iind litf~ gol~. a nr-:!gati.ue

ansli.IEH' from the membE!Y'S opposite. N OIAI t.I-H~ h o n . the L r:! r:~ d r->. r· o f t he

Opposition is saying no, but we go 1-. e1 n f~ g c::1 I~ i. u f~ an s IJJ c-) r· I d n d l:. h 'i. s is

what we get all the time.

MR. TULK: On a point of privilege, Mr·. SpE~al<r~r.

Mr~. SPFAI<FR: T"i1'P..i~-ul,'! rn (,~1ft b ~>. r· f o r· F o g o .

MR. TUI..K : ThE-~ hon . 9t'l'tt·lE!TTian Ci-ln !;tand in h :i. s p l. , .. , c ,,~ i:1 l. l. h e 1. i. I< e !; , r s .:~ y 1 ... o thE·! hon. g0.rdJE'!r11r.tr1 tha1 thE~

blls·i.t'H.;!S!) or 1-.1'11:~ p:wp11:' of Hl"i.s

Prou :lnn~ :i.s whcd: has r·E~cerd J y gonE! I) 1'1 r:l S Hill C: h "l S ·~Hllj !:)'i. l. 1. h lc~ IJ,J"i. S h ~~ S

1o put on the Ord8r Paper.

MR. SIMMONS: It js a sellout!

MR. TULK:

1..3437 JlJne 21, 1988 Vol XL

A sellout! It is as much the business of the people of th'i.s ProvinCE! as anything the han.

gf~ n 1:1. c-~I'Tii.Hl IAri. s hc-~ s to pu 1-. on t: hE!

Order Paper. And I say to him 1': hat 1·: his p i:l r l: y s 1:. i'l n d !; r· E! a cl y I thE'

Opposition stands ready to dEdJatE! i·: ha 1.: -i, S S I If~ .

MR. SPF::r:lKER : Or·dE:~r, pJeasEl!

ThE!Y'E! j s no pr·ima fac:.i e Ci:"lSE! .

·j S 1'1 OIM 1. 0 : 0() C) 1 C: lo C k r· h :;!

mj.n:is ·l· et"'s t.oirnP has elapsE!d, I lo 11 s 1,, ~; L ... , n d s d d j o Ill' I'H'! d u n 1.: .i.l.

p . HI . l: 0 l'fliHT 0111 ,

MR. TIJI .K: Thank you, Mr. Spec-~I<E!Y' .

SOMF HON. MFMBFRS: lll>.iH' I ~H~dt'!

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RESPONSE TO TnE w1UTTEN Qt: ES'IION

r1R. ?ETER F&~wiCR,

-" _,-

MH?. FOR T:iE DlST~ICT OF !·:L'·GE1EK,

TO TliE 30N . i.:S..~ S 7!,r."J' C::::: -·-·-,

PR!!:SIDE..."f:!:' OF 'IRE.Z..St..TRY 30?.R.D

QUESTION DATED: APRIL 18, 1988 ~.J

\ ~~

~~J. l.o I

\ ••'''\

----------·

.. .. , .. ,.; ~:. ........ --

.._<~ \ !;..' • • • • -

QUESTION:

f"f~0~

~- _,;:·=· .. 4/&r-. ~.

" • ~t ~ L t;~-- -.0~ ~ .... :...:v-;.- . c......,..A ... ¥ "\ -:;;> .... .. ' ~· -

~- F~~ICK HAS REQUESTED TEE ,....OLTcY'IN '" -w-.o-·~'hr.-- ot· ~ ~-r J...l w \.J .4.t r :--...1_. ! J. · ': ~ .~;~~/'· ... .,_,.

"' 1 . W:-iAT P:S;..Ns THE DEP7'3T!1ENT ::~;s TO P~C:·~O':E =::-::2 :::?.::\S

!f.! . .Ni)IChPPED PEOPLE IN T:~EIR C£?;._~'5·::::...'\_ C:.S~ ~ ;~_:::,= ·.::-=: .:._:: ..

2 .

3 .

A -= •

WHAT FUNDS HAVE BEL~

THIS .

· -...r -.~

\' --·~l r:.rt~s ?_:..\s 3:::~:

h.LLOCJl.'IED

J...:.,::-: :.~_-:=::)

I 7 SELF, ~.!\D 7::::!? ~?.2S?_;._:.:s,

r:::~?LE.

'T''"' - V :iE~:? IN

- J

). ::=:~-===:..:::

;Js-f CT?.ER ?ROG:K..!cJ~S ':?_;'!' THE :,~?."-..?.'::·~{'::'

HELP TF.E RL~ICF2PED .

-r-:::":"- ~ - -----

?~02~~..r.:s L: ::~

_ ;_ : .-~ -· ·-· :_.-_ - - .. . · . .:. ... - .

· 1!' - -· ··- -·· -

....~ ··-

IN SEPTEl-ffi~R, 1935, c;.:_;·.,.-L2-;r·:El;~· l-.??C. :l~:-E:: ----- _ ........ ... . -·· .... - '-'- -- -1~

E:·:?~OY-r.~ENT EQUITY' TO 57:=;.._- ::EE PlGLI C S:S?.-~~: :~ :::: :?~: -.:.~-:~~ ;~ ::-~: :~:~ ::

OF PEOPLE WITH DISABILIT~ES. IN MID 1987, G-.3I:~,n::T ;.~??RC'/ED T3:S

?.ECOl.Z1ENDl-.TIONS OF T.rlE TJSK F'JRCE, AND I•::-I CJ~LL:.z.. ::;-: _ _r:::, ':~E ~ -::-~:.

NEIL WIJ:,i'DSOR, THEN PRESIDENT OF TREASURY BOARD, .~.NNO"UNCED S:?E·:2:J..L

INITIATIVES TO PR0!10TE TrlE REPRESENTATION OF PEOPLE Y..' T'T'"'-"

DISABILITIES WITHIN ~~E Pl.:3LIC SERVICE. T:-iCSE I l~I~If.~TI\:-Es

INCLUDED:

DE\!ELOPMENT AND H TPLEEENTATION OF A TR~.INHiG ?LAC:SI•:iElC'

PROGRAM (SINCE RENhliED Jl. CJ..?..EER E.t""1PLO"i.1•:Eo."\"'T P::<CS?_:...I:1) ;

RECRUITMENT OF Jl.N EI1PI.OYHENT EQUITY OFFICER;

EFFORTS TO IMPROVE BUILDING ACCESSIBILITY;

r-'1'-F.NAGEMENT TRAINING TO PR0:.10TE A BETTER l.:"""}wER:37."-l';=:::N.:; OF ~---...~.. __ _

ABILITIES OF TrlE TA?-GET GRO~P;

AND OTHER SPECIAL EFFOR':'S 70 ENSURE T:~E P'JBLIC ~::::::~\r iC:£ ·y; :~~-

EJ-..TVIRO:t-.11ENT :r-'T..EETS TEE r·;EEDS OF T""rlE TJl..RGET G?.C'JP.

1. IN ORDER TO E1~CCf . .J?_:._~E 71-lE F· :S_L. c-c:~,.:El~ G:t· I~ ::? .. E ==: : ::~ ~·· .. :.!Sl-.3 I ~I TIES I!-i : ~?.~·:_:_~ .~ ~ l·;:- ?C· ~~-::::::~ --· -- - ---- --- -- . . -- - · .. --- -I!~2LEJr!:ENTING A C .. ~E;E2 E~:PLC~'Y!-iElC PRO;:=F..J:.J·:. ':"3E C3.J~C::I-;"~ C•F

TH:S PROGR'\1"1 .... ~ ' -~ ~0 I ~;c?~2?.SE ':EE F~E?:S~L~~·riJ.: .. TI ·: ~~ .-;:::- ~· ";'· ,.....~.-..._ __ :;:_.:._

WI':':-i DISABILI'II2S v.;:=:-1:1\ ':eriE PUn~IC S:t:::::-,-1 :~ :-~z:: ::;:;c;::

PROVISION OF ON-THE-JOB ':'RAINING OPPORTUNITIES IN GO\'ERN""I>:iEN':

DE?A...~TMENTS. T"riESE T?_2l.INING OPPORTUNITIES WILL 3E DESIGK:::::::

TO LEAD TO PERI'-l.Z...~D\':' E.I·:PLO"Y"1'1ENT. T:'"iE PUBLIC SE::\\ -I ::::

COI<lMISSION IS RESPm~SI3LE FOR THIS PROGRJ..M AND FOR

.·

2

0\TRSEEING THE PLACEMENTS • FUNDS HP.VE BEE..:.'-i ALLOG-.T~ FOR

T""~E PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO HIRE THE FIRST GRO"JP SF

TRAINEES (12-15 PEOPLE), STARTING IN SEPTEMBER OF TrliS YEAR.

2. .'\~?RO"v"AL HAS JI.LSO BEEN Giv'EN FOR THE ?UBLIC SERV::;::CE

COiv1MISSION TO HIRE AN EMPLOYMENT EQUITY OFFICER. THIS

PERSON WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR OVERSEEING TEE C~3EL~

F\c?LOl11ENT PROGRAM, AND FOR PROVIDING OT:-!EE S?ECIJ-.2.

E:·1?LOYHENT RELATED SERVICES BOTH TO T"rlE TJI..RGET GROu? JISD TC

GOVEffi'..TI1ENT DEP Jl..RTI'.LENTS • THE POSITION HAS BEEN ADv'ERTISED,

f.l'.TD T~E PUBLIC SERVICE COI>1MI S S I ON HO?ES TO E]..VE T:-iE

~UCCESSFUL APPLICANT IN THE JOB BY THE END OF JuLY .

.:-. S::::NCE 1979, 'YlHEN THE ACCESSIBILITY ?.CT FJ..S PROCI.?.:lJf~D,

CONSTRUCTION OF PUBLIC BUILDINGS HAS lflET T"rlE rt.EQUIF..El1ENTS OF

THIS LEGISLATION. THERE ARE, OF COURSE, A GRE]l.T !.Y.l'i""Y

s·:·vr.:?SYiE...~T-Ow'NED PU3LIC BUILDINGS 'Z:~T WERE CC!l'~S'='R-:..JC':':2:

::::::.:oR 70 1979. T:-iE?.E IS t' r'\ •• u ~ .. E·~ L~: ~..E:~~~~T 0~\:C~P.. :-:-IE.

:::.EGISLATION THAT THESE BUILDINGS BE !vl.?:..DE ACCESSIB:.,E.

~EVE;RTHELESS, GOVERNI1ENT RECOGNIZES THAT SPECIAL EIQL::T.:.."":·:2c·

?ROGR?11S TO HIRE PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES WILL ONLY EE

EFFECTIVE IF POTENTIAL EMPLOYEES CAN HAVE .2\CCESS TC

GOVERNI1ENT BUILDINGS. IN ORDER TO FACILITATE TEIS,

GOVERNHENT IS NOW REVIEWING THE CURF.ENT LEVEL C1F

ACCESSIBILITY OF ALL OF ITS BUILDINGS, ~u IS ASSESSING

}

THOSE RENOVATIONS WHICH t-'L?•.Y BE REQUIRED . OUR GO.Z;.L IS 7?..J..T

GOVEP.Nr-!ENT BUILDINGS BE !"l?..DE ~.CCESS::OL:S wC:ER2 I'?

PRACTICAL AND COST EFFECTIVE TO DO SO.

I WILL CONCLUDE BY SAYI NG, MR.. S?EJ:..K.E..'R., TH..~T GOV£F~?\;1>'';:"liT ~ S

FULLY Cm!MITTED TO THE CONCEPT OF EMPLOYME.."'i"'T EQUITY HI'!'HIN TO::E

PuZ3LIC SERVICE . TRE.;SURY BO.?...RD IS EV?.LUAT:NG T:-i'S EFF~C'I:\~="~ES~

OF GOVER..l..'MENT' S EIV!PLOYI'1ENT EQUITY I NITIATIVES ON AN ONG'.):;:!.( ::

3~.s:;:s. ~'"iESE POSITIVE STEPS WILL 3NSliRE T3.?·.~ F~O?LC: \.;:":""::

DI SJi.3TLITIES- BECOr-'lE BE~ER REP:R.ESE:l'i"TED WITrliN T:-ffi PiJBLIC SE!rv1CE.

. ./ ~' /""'

... , · . ....___.__._ ...=--.. -:-- _.::.------

.. ;~·~S~\:SRS TC ~T.JES:"=: c ~ :.:E .:~.s :: ED IN TEE HQUS~ C! ..L .. SSE!-~E· L~, J:.I~~E 6, G :

DE?.:O?~:-l:S l,~T OF PUBLIC WORKS AND SERVICES

185 - Mr. David Gilbert (Burgee-Bay d'Espoir) - To ask ~~e

Honourable the Minister of Public Works and Services, to lay

upon the Table of the House the following information:

QU:SSTIONS:

-~~··Z S1·~LRS:

;·il1~:1 was the tender or tee1d~rs originally c.=.::.::.~:::

for space, which resulted in "the leasing of :::-.:o

Eastern Canada Building?

2. Wha t ~as the amount of space acquired a~ d

~ost per square ft.?

3 . Would the Minister provide a detailed lis::1~g

of each subsequent leasing arrangement, outlini~g

the difference in square footage, cost per square

foot?

4 . ~\'hat has been the total cost tc date f e r

renovations and/or setting up costs to the Easte=~

Canada Building paid for by the Provincia::.

Government since the original tender was leased?

l . S=cce :Jriginally leased Canuarv l, 19"7~- -

':"e:-.. ~e:::--E c.=2.led.

2 . ?..E-~-~a.:. :;~ =.~e Original :St:.=.sE S6 .l.: :;:er £:_: p..: -=-~ -=

f::.c-:..

Cr:.::-i:-. =.: _s.=.se

.. --=:--=-=-- ---r-=a. ? ~ r. -:. c.l ?. =. -t e r- _ ,__ --= ....... .

_:.._ ·...:-:.:: c ~ i z c.-: j_ c r:

Spa~e originally Mines and Energy restructuring.

A~6iti~~al Lease

?~ t=rl. tal .F~ rE:a

Ee:r:tal Rate Terre;

Authorizaticn

7 ,0CG s~~are :ee:: 56.10 per square fc~t 2 years effec-::i7e Ca~~ar: l, 1~73

" r _•j . - • l376-'72

leased for the Departme~~ c:

in connection ~i~h Gover~~e~~

2,6CO square feet $6.10 per square foot 2 years effective June l, 1973 TBA 10142

. _, .....;::._ .-:...,:--- .

.:.. -

Addi~ional space resuired following additional staff:

to acco:-:--~rr~c -5a ts

Geologists (5) Mining Engineers (2) Stenographers (3) Dept. of Mines and Energy

Renewal of Original Lease

Rental Area Rental Rate Term

Authorization

Same 58.25 oer sauare foot - -5 years effective January l, 1975 TBM 179-'75

Renewal cf Additional Lease


Authorization

Same $8.25 per square foot 4 years, 7 months effective January 1, 1975 TBA 30270

Sublease from Bank of Nova Scotia (A)

Rental :Rental Te~rn

Area R-+-o a_ __

Authorizatic::J.

2,784 sq~are feet 55.50 per square foot 14 mo~ths ef~ective February 1, :97 7

TBA 31789

Sub:ease frc~ Under~riters ~d~us~~e~~ =~=eE ~

?. -= =-~ t. 2. 2. ;._ ~ -= c. ;_~:-.-::.al ?~.::.::-=

r:erm

J:-~1..:-:.ho~.i.zation

..;~2 =~·.:==.: =2=~ -- --~ - . . . ;-:r s~:.:c.l:"e

"' :.:ears, 3 r;.c::tl:.s e::: ~-= =--=:.. ··e .' c-=cbe~ 1, 1977

':5.?. 326 (: 2

~~~itio~al Sutlease :::rorr ~::~er~~:..te~s ~ ~~ ~~-=~~ : -.Curea·;1 ( C i

Re:1tal Area Rental Rate Term

A:.:ithcrization

1,295 scuare feet S8 06 ~J- s~··~-e ~~o~ ' • !::"-......... -::. ..... -........ -...... -15~ months e::::::ect:..ve September 15, 19/8 TB;,. 3 3 52 6

l

':he at·::.·~.,e s1.:t-leased space . - -:._::.::.:...:::=..-:..-=:::. 2.S

and C above were acquired to relieve overcrcwd~~g,

e.g.

( a) insufficient space for Registry files

(b) storage of rock samples in ccrrijcrs

(c) insufficient space in General Office

(d) to accow~odate additional staff hired

under Federal/Provincial Mineral

Development program. (All for Department

of Mines and Energy).

Renewal Lease Inccrcoratina all of A~ove Space

Rental Area ?..ental Rate Term

Authorization

14,121 sq~are feet $9.00 per sq~are foe~ 5 years effective January 1, 1979

M.C. 1593- I 70

Sublease from Iron Ore Cofficanv of Canada (D)


Authorization

550 sqea.:;:-e ::eet $16.00 per sq~are foot 3 years effective October 1, 1982 M.C. 1024-'Bl

*Subsequently extended to ~an~ary

at the same rate

- , ~..l..r

, ·:. Qi _ _. L · 1

Sublease from Central Trust .E)

rte!1t.al Area ?.2~t.al ~~:::t-=e

- 22:":7.

;_:J.~t-::.ri zation

1,~00 s~~cre =eet Sl~.~c ;er s~~are

3 ·:=::.:-:= -===-= =-::.:. ~--= :: -=::: :-·..: ;:_~- .-

~'l .. c. 1::2~- · s:

*S~tse~uently extended tc =ece~~er ~~,

~:-~e E 2.!7!E: 1:"2 te.

:: .:-6

The: a:Oc\..,.E sp=.ce inC.icateC as~=.:-:. -::~ c;;;: .. :; ... ,:e -.:::::

subleased to relieve ongoing cver=rowded ccnditis~s

in the Department of Mines and Energy.

Additional Sublease from Iron Ore Coffioanv

of Canada


Authorization

1,734 s~u~re feet $16.00 pe~ square fco~ 2 years, 9 months e£fecti¥e May 1, 1984 M.C. 1024-'81

- L; -

*J,C.cE tional Space requirsd to accommodate 15 extrc: staff hired under the new Federal/Provincia: Mineral Development Agreement, for Department of Mines and Energy.

Renewal of Lease on 14,121 sauare feet of Soace Rental Area Rental Rate Term

.P-.uthorization

14, 121 square feet $16.00 per square foot 2 years effective January 1, 1985 TBM 329-'85

Renewal of Lease Incornorating all of Above Spacs Rental Area Rental Rate Term

Authorization

Additional Space


J..uthorization

18,305 square feet $13.00 per square foot 3 years effective January 1, 1987 TBM 900-'86

926 square feet $13.00 per square foot 2 years effective January 1, 1988 H.C. 1320-'87

* Additional Space required to expand Computer Room for Department of Mi~es and Energy. Lease - Korkers' Compensati~~ Appeals Tri~~~al Accu~red bv ?ublic ~e~~er

?~~:--_-:.c.l ;_~ea ?.s!}~al ?..c.~e

2,523 s~~ars fss~ $14.85 per s~uare 3 years sffective A~gust 21, 1957 ~3A A24l6

£ GC·t Terrr:

_;u-=.ho ::-i za tion

4 . Cost to date for renovations - $801,626.00 - I ana.; or setting-c.r:;

-----~-

- 4.:

! ~ ----:....-....___

;._~J.S\;;:sps 'T'r ~'- ;~ESTIONS ASKED IN THE HOCSE OF ~S~~XE~Y.

... Sl : :

D:SP.;;RT~~ENT OF PuBLIC h'OP.KS ..:.. ~~:; ~:sEc,c:;: ::::=-,~

186 - Mr. David Gilbert (Burgee-Bay d'Espoir)

Honourable Minister of Public Works and Se~vicss

the Table of the House the following infor~aticn:

To ~c

ask the la~' ".l:JCI::

QUESTIONS: 1. When was the tender or tenders originally called

for space, which resulted in the leasing of

the medical arts building?

ANSWERS:

2. What was the amount of space acquired and its

cost per square ft.?

3. Would the Minister prov ide a detailed listing

of each subsequent leasing arrangement, outlining

the difference in square footage, cost per square

foot?

4.

1.

2.

What has been the total renovations and/or setting up arts building paid for Government since the original

Space originally leased J"..lne

called.

Rental Rate original lease

foot.

cos~ to date ~cr

costs to the medica: by the Provincia: tender was leased

5, 1 978 - No tenders

- $9.80 per squa~-=

3. Orig inal Lease


Authorization

2,180 ssuare feet S~.80 ~sr s~uars ~oct

5 ~ears s~fsc~~~e J-..:.::e 5, 1~-;-E

M.C. SCS-'78

*Space leased in order to relocate draf~i~~

and cartographic functions of Dspa~~~e~~ c~

Mines and Energy from Eas~ern Ca~aia 3uildi::g.

Additional Space


Authorization

4,694 square feet $9.50 per ss~are foot 5 years effective June 1, 1980 M.C. 453-'80

.,...,

r ~~~~~i=~al Scace requ~re~ tor:

E 1 ex~ra s~aff for Depar~ment cf ~ines and Energy hired under Renewables and Conservation Agreement

(b) relocation of Energy Branch from the Eastern Canada Building



Authorization

Same $11.00 per square foot 2 years effective June 5, 1983 (expiry date May 31, 1985) Departmental - renewal option exercised



Authorization

Same $13.00 per square foot l year effective June 1, 1985 TBM 329-'85

* Extended on monthly 1986 to coincide with Ca~ada Building lease.

basis expiry

to December 31, date of Easter~

Renewal of Additional Lease

Rental ;;.rea Rental Rate Ter:n

;.._ -~ -t jcr i zc t ion

Same $13.00 per square foo~ 1 year effective June l, 1965 ~3~·: .3 2 9- I E 5

~ Extended on monthly basis to Deceiber ~- : 1 9 86 to coincide with expiry date of Eas~er~ Ca~aca Bui lding lease.

?e~ewal Lease Incorporating Srigi~al ~ease a~8 _!:_ C.C.i tic::a.l Lease

Rental Area ?.ental Rate Terrn

hu~I:orization

6,874 square feet $13.00 per square foot 3 years effective January 1, 1987 TBM 900-'86

4. Total cost to date of renovations and/or setting-up costs $170,051.00.

.....-:

·~

=- ..... -~.--,..-~ ....

__:.---

~erta~im Repcrt of ~he Proceedings of t~e E=use -

J~~e 8, 1988 !Hansard Vol. XL. No. 51)

Question Mr. Dav id Gilbert, M.H.A.

The Minister of Public Works, in a res:;::-onse to a -.... ·::~ "':::-:: ~:

question from me regarding renovations to leased premises, =~~i~~ ~

that $42,016 had been spent to renovate the Eastern ca~=c~

Building for the Department of Mines. Now a check with officia:=

in his Department failed to show tender documents fer -~ - =

$42,016. Will the Minister tell this House why the; h'cr~: .. ~-o.

undertaken without going through the public tendering precess?

Answer

The renovations carried out by the DepartmenL

Works and Services at the Eastern Canada Building

year 1987/88 were undertaken partly by contract anc

a combination of own forces and service contractors.

of - - --. .. -=-- -- ---

in ~:.s= :. -

pc.~~J.. :· ..._ ~

The original contract was valued at $19,8CO.CO

Subsequently a Change Order was issued for

Additional Change Order was issued for $11,770. 26 s ~t.o. :; c

Total Value of Contract 53:;:,030.26

The balance of the work was undertaken by Depar~me~~

of Public Works personnel and by Service Contractors .

(Service Contracts are awarded as a result of ~u~:~c

tenders).

Eastern Canada - Medical by the Department of Mines and for a number of years. Various years had been moved to the ~~=federation E~ilding. This

Arts Building had bee:-1 occu;-ie :: Energy under a lease arra=;e;e =~ headquarters functions i= re~e = ~

r:e\ .... -1~; cor:-.ple~eG ~-~2=:-:. ~=-:=-~·-:. .. .; r::c,.\.-e :12csss.:.tc.-:.-e::

~~=c~i~~al c~anges ttrcughcut Lhe ~uil~i=; tc p::-c;er:: === =~~- - -~he Divisions of the DeparLment of Mines who have re~ained -===~~ -

The original contract of $19,800 was publicly te=~ere~

and awarded for the installation of a co~pu~er ~cc~ . =~~~=

the con~ract was in place, the Department cf ~i=s~ ~i~~e~

expand the computer area at a cost cf $11,770.26.

The balance of the work carried out in the builoing ~·:.=.=:

a series of unrelated minor functional changes to permit ~~=

occupants to operate more efficiently in the re::r.aining ~;>ace.

T.tis work was carried out by own forces, contractc·rs and ser':i =~

contractors publicly tendered.

CONTENTS

TUESDAY, 21 JUNE, 1988.

Ruling on House Procedure: Mr . Speak e r .. .... ... ........... . ................. ... ... 3322

Statements by Ministers

Transportation Projects Worth $26.5 million : Mr. Doy le ........................ . ..................... 3322

Mr . Gilbert . ...... . ................ .. .............. .. .. 3325

Mr. Long . . ..... .. .. ... .. ,. ......... ... ...... .. .... . . . ... 3326

Annual Report of Offs hore Petroleum Board: Pre1rder PG!c kford .......... . . . . . ........... ...... ....... 3326

Mr . WeJls ............. . .... ........ . ... .. .. ......... . .. 3327

Mr . Lon g .......................... .... ............ . .. .. 3328

Oral Questions

The Newfoundland Railway Closure : Assistance for Badger. Mr. Wells, Premier Peckford . . .. .. . ............. . ............. . .... 3329

Claims no provision for seasonal workers . Mr . Wells, Premier Peckford ...... . .. ..... .... . .... . . . . .. 3330

What is the provision . Mr. Well s, Pr emier Peckfor·d . ........... .. ..... ... ...... .. ..... . ... 3330

Assuming $7 million is fair for Bishop 1 s Fa l ls, is t he same amount adequate for Port aux Basques . Mr . Simmons, Premier Peckford ... . .... 3330

Su gges ts thP. $7 milli.on fund for Port aux Basques may hav e to be revised upwards . Mr. !3i.nnnons, Pr emie r Pe ckford .... . . . ..... . ..... ... .. . .. 3331

Th e Newfoundland Ra i lway Cl os ure (Con t inued) : What mech~n i sm will be used l n re l ~ tt on l o Marine AtJantic r:~mployees who might be aff e ctE:~d . Mr . Simmons, P;~em:i.er Peckford . . ......... .. . .. 333 2

Has the Province given up responsibility for St. John's workers who may be affected . Mr. Long, Premier Peckford .. .... . . . ....... ............. 3332

Will CN employees be obliged to moue out of the Province to protect their collective bargaining rights. Mr. Long, Premier Peckfor·d . ....... .. 3334

Wants a special assistance plan put into place to allow workers to remain in the Province if matter not resolved in three months. Mr. Long, Premier Peckford . ...... :···· ········· 3334

Specific assistance sought and received from Ottawa. Are they in writing and is Ottawa legally bound. Ml". Furey, Premier Peckford . . . .......... 333S

Do opinions between Ottawa and Newfoundland diverge on the reopener clause. Mr. Furey, Premier Peckford .. . . . .... . . . ........ . ...... . ... .. .. . ... 3335

Is there no security in the reopener clause . Mr. Furey, Premier Peckford .............. . . ...... ... . .. 3336

When will railway lands be transferred to the Province. Mr. Gullag e , Pr 0mier Peckford .. .......... 3336

What lands- and propr:~r·ties are involved . Mr. Gullage, Prco~rni.er Peckfor·d ... .. ......... . . .... .. ..... 333'7

Will representatives of towns and cities involved serve on a committee to be struck. Mr. Gullage, Premier Peckford .......................... 3337

The agreement has no provision for Ottawa being responsible for highway maintenance . Mr. Efford, Premier Peckford . . . .. .. .. . . .. .. .. ... .... . .. 3338

___ f:J -- -- -- --

The Newfoun dland Railway Closure (Co ntinued) : Where will the Province get the funds needed fQr highway mainte nance . Mr . Efford, Pr emier Peckford ... ... .... .. ... . . . ... . ..... .......... .. 3'339

Sinc e the government lacks sufficie nt moni es to properly fund Health, Education and other necessary services, how will it finance highway maintenance. Mr . Efford, Pr·emier· Pe e kford . . . ..... . ..... 3 340

Trans-Labrador Hi ghway: What portion of the $19 m·ill ion will be spent on up grading a 20-kilometer section of the road . Mr. Kelland, Mr. Doy18 . . .......... ... ..... .. .. ...... .. . 334 1

Answers to Questions for which Noti~e has been Given

Te r1 ders for Medical Arts and Easte r n Canada Lease : Dr . Twomey ... .. ... .. . ..... .......... .. ... .. . . . . ........ 3 342

Employme nt Equity Program: Mr. Si mms . . .. .. . . .. ........ . . . .. .. . ... . . . . . .. . .... ..... 3 342

Orders of the Day

Thi r d Reading:

Bill No. 14 (Continued): Mr. Wells , resumes debate ... . . .... . . ... .. .. . .. . ..... . . . 3343

Mr . Morgan .............. .. . ..... ... .. . . .. . ..... ..... . . . 3 35 4

Mr . Gilbert .. . .. ................ . ...... . .... .. ......... 3362

M r . Mitc h e 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 3 6 7

Ag reed that debate resume at 7 p . m .. ............ .... ... 3380

Debr.\te resumes at 7 p . m., on pror. edure ..... . ........ .. . 3381

(E1.1ening)

Mr. Tulk, a po t nt of ord e r ...................... .. ..... 3381

D1n . CoJ.J i n s ..... . ........ ..... .. .. ..... , ................ 3 38 2

Mr . Wells ......... ....................... . ... . ....... .. 3383

Mr . Speaker, ruling . ............. . .. .. .. ... . . .. . ....... 3384

Mr . Morgan, a po ·i.n t of order .. .... ..................... 3 385

Mr. Wells ... ... ....... .. ..... . .......... . .. ............ 3386

Dr. Col1ins ....... . ....... .. ........................... 338H

Mr . Speaker I ruling .. . ... . ... . ....... .. .. . . . . .... ..... . 3389

Bi 11 No. 14 (Con tinued) : Mr. Gullage .... .... . ....... .... ..... . .... . ............. 3389

Mr. Tobin .............................................. 3393

Mr. Decker . ................... . ........................ 3400

De bate on pro c e d u r e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 l!-0 9

Mr . Speaker I ruling .. , ... ... .. . ..... ... .... ... .. . .. .... 3410

Bill No. 14 (Continued): Mr. Warren .. ..... . ..... . ................ . .............. 3411

Mr·. Efford .. ................ ........ . .. . .... ... ........ 3420

Mr . Rideout ....................... . ........... .. .. .. ... .. 3428

Adjournment .... ........... . . . ...................... . . . . 34.37

June21-1988.pdf - House of Assembly

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Transcript of June21-1988.pdf - House of Assembly