P RO C E !: D I NGS

of u.

MILITARY COURT FOR THE

TRIAL OF ., ', q CRD.O:Nl.ll3

held :.:.. t

LU?tEBURC; GER!iANY

0:1

FRIDAY, 2 N0.\1l?IIBER, 19451

upon the trial of

and

1 0 R T Y F I R S T DAY.

Transcript of the Off icial

Sho:bt hand I!otes.

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I N D E X,

''• R;J(OCZY Exoi 1incxl ~)Y T_,I:JJT , JEDRZDJO .IOZ

LI!lJT.

Cr. ::;s- cxo..iincx.1. by COLONEL BLC!lliOUSE RC.- L.Xl\Dino-1. by LI:]JT. JEDRZBJ0· .. 1cz

T:a:.RCmK DxoLi.no."!. by LI!JUT. JTIDRZL;Jo.::rcz Crcsn- oxr-.uinc<l. by r ·.JOR CR'...t'{FlELD Cr-,s::;- ox.oui ncil ty COLONEL :a:.CKHOUSE Rc-.:xoni nm.1 by LDY.r. EDRZI:Jo· .• 1cz

THD .'.CCUSI:ID HELEN:. 1~0?:>ER

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.~;:nnincx1 by L::1urr. ~HZCJO .. ICZ Cross- cxnui nc.x1. by :i:·.JoR :mmo Crosc- o:xn11inc.<1 by 1 ~'.JCR CK.:..NFIDLD Cross- o;mi 1i noC::. hy c;.::r~·.D1T ROBBRrS Cross- c:irortinoc.l by C;..FT:.I N FICLDEN Cross- o:ironi.no.1 by C.'::11'.'.IN CORB,LLY

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(.At 0930 hours the Court reo.ssemhes pursuant to a<1~1ourrunent , the s o...10 J.'r esident , Hembers , a nd J uui:;e Advoca t e bcin(! present )

Tht- o.ccus(:!d are again b rou@lt before the Court.

LT. JEIRZEJOWICZ: My next witness i:.; No. 22 on the l i st.

rr. !U\KCCZ'?' is called i n and having been duly s.-;01"'ll is examined Ly LT. JEDRZEJO\/I CZ as f \ 1 llons : -

Q Yfhat is your ful l ·nru,1c ? A. H~oczy, \/lad.isl.aw.

\'/her e a nd uhcn HE-re you born ? A.. 12th December 1921 i n Samok.

<j rlha t ,·as your last address in Ibl1nd ? A. In Samok.

Q \'HlEl t was your occupation ? A. I went to school.

Q 'ilerc you a rrcstccl by the Gcn 11a ns ? A. Ye s .

·J Hhcn \fore you u.rrcste d ? A. 1 ?39.

4 Ca n you g i vc a ::tor0 exact date ? A. 12th December 1939.

G \thy uerc you arrcs t cd ? ,~. Durint; a round-up.

<} Whe re vr...,re you taken after you \f•,rc a r;rcs ted ? A. I was four months in a prison in Ta rn."\w a.n:l from ther..., I ll!ls s ent to Au.schYri tz.

r4 Have you had a nuuber tattooed on your an.i in Auschvrit'z ? A. Ye s .

CJ HoYr long did you stay in Auschwitz ? n . Three years.

') · ·,;hat \"Tere you doi ng in l .. uschrri tz ? A. I YTOrkcd in various r1urking par ties.

,--~ When did yotl 1(.,~·.vc.. J"uschvd. tz ? ... I l eft Ausch\fi tz on the 12th .~uril 1943.

r. \/her e were you t .'.:L.:en to \men you 19ft Ausch\ii tz ? to a conccntra t i .;.1 camp in NeUCI'l.£P- oae.

A. I went to Hrunb urg

<) How long did yot.. ::; t uy in Nouneng,~ . .:.10 ? 1~. Appr oximatel y 1 u r.1onthn.

Q Whn. t v1crc you doing in Neuengo.nuc ? A. I v1as loading sand into trucks .

') When you l cf't Ncucngru.me wher e \;~JX you taken ? 1... To Hanover.

Q How l ong did you stay in HMove;r ? :... I s tuyed there until I \7U S s ent to Dolsen vlhi ch \ IDS Je twecn the J t h :md 9th J .. pril 1945 •

.D? you know th:iis uo.n ? ( Indi ca. tine a.octl!:led No. 4 7, Anton Pol a nski who s t a ncl3 up) 1~. Yes, \10 worked t ogether .

J Wh .. m.; did you \1ork t ogether ? !... I n a grieul tural nor k i n the fie lds.

I n what country " t he f'iclds.

h.. I n Ausch\1i tz \IC were cr.iployod on agricul tuml work in

4 ,/er..; you tog.:: th.., ' -.ri th hir.1 in t he: uthor conccntra tior.1 c ru.1ps a s ·well ? J... Y cs .

Q How di d this :.\.'ll. 1.;havc tmm.rds t h1) othur prisoners i n Hanovur ? A. He vrorked in t he sa .__ r;ro..y as tho o t;h l., prisone rs.

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'} Did you live ' Ii.th this r.-ian in the s~.lc block a t Delson ? in b lock nur:ib0r 13 .na he in b lock nu1.1bcr 12.

... No, I lived

Q Did you s ec ;.1uch of h:ir.1 in Dolsen ? frequently.

A. Y cs , he us cd t o vis it 1.10 very

~ .:~a f a r as you know \/Us he the vlholc tiuc until the Dri t ish libero. tion in block 12 ? :~. He v1as a f e.-1 dll.ys - three or f our - i n bl ock nu.:t~)cr 12, and then he went to b l ock nur.ibcr 16.

(l Did h1;; have, to your knoYrledge, aey function in o.ey block or in the cor:rp ? A. I have not seen it, o.nd I ho.vc not heard about it c i thcr .

Do you r c;:1a-.iber th1.~ processi on in Dvlscn \lhcn prisoners YA.,rc dragging corpse s to the pit:; ? A. Yes , I ~ :ror.1cr.lbcr because I had to do this wor k r>\)'sclf.

' j rtba t vra.s l'olAnski t..0i ng ilhcn you vr1..ru dro.ggi ng corpses ? .t l • He did the s ar.10 job.

(Thu rcm:l.ining defending officers have no questions to nsk)

Q.~ss-cxru:rl.nod by COLONEL D,'lCl<HOUSE

,1 Hovr were you t r oa t ,;d by t ho SS in ;"usohvli tz ? A. Worse than dogs.

CJ Wer e you ever boa tt:.n ? Yes.

Q Often ? •l• Yes .

1 It w:is virtually i.: ::nossiblc t o a voi('. bei ng bea t en in a concentration car.tp, was not it ? ~'... It w:i.s qui t c ir.tp03si b lc. There vra.s not a single prisoner who would not be b1.."1. ten in a conccntra tion cru.?p.

Q Di<!. the SS ucn carry any sticks or v1hips or aeything of that kind ? J ... Yes , they did.

~ Di d tho fW1ctiornrics , t he l agcraltcut crs, the b lockal t cstcrs , end the Capos beat pcop1.c too ? _\.. In tho s a. .. c · . .'u.y a s the SS.

Q Did they non.10.lly c:lrry sticks too '? A. Yes.

• .s Was that CX<.1.ct zy t hv s nae a t Ncucne·u.-.lo n s well ? sa;.1c.

') And Hanover ? A. Y cs , just the s "J.lC.

J In f act, in cvccy <.onccntrotion you have b een in ?

A. Yes , it ,·1as just tho

A. Yes.

Q When you got to De::.. .... cn you s ay y ou \:1..nt into b l ock 13 ? A. Yes.

J \/h=i.t wns tho first ·:i-ork you ·.wrc cr.:...,l oyccl on in Dcl scn ? 1... Dragging the C02llfJ08••

·~ HoYt s oon a fte r you ~..Jt there Uid y0u start on that \lork ? ... It wus a.bout four or t hree days '.Jcforc the arriv• l of the Dritish troops .

\~ V/ha t ti.r.le in the r.torrtl.ng did you g c., t roused ' lnd brought out of your block ? A. I do not 1010w c....:·ictzy, but it y,·\.., <lllrk.

Q 'i/er e you beat en as you cru.10 out ? ! • Ccrtainzy.

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Q .As o. Lmttcr of f act it Ymul d be surprisi ng in a concentration car.ip no t t o be ·\~ boo.t en o. s you can u out of your blocJ~, v1ould not it ? 4~• It wns very ' painf'ul f or the G1....~ ia.n pcrsormc l if they coul d not boat prisoners.

Q You did not have t o 1.lo anything WI\.>l1J t o get boa.t en, did you ? It v1as in tho sru.10 nay a s you will s ee one type of f an.tor hitting his ca.ttlo as t hey go through a gat e , Y.ro.s not it ? A. ~l.'hcrc was no difference 'mother there v1as o.ey ground f or it )r not.

~ In each b l ock i n ~ concentration cmJp you had the bl ockaltcstcr a nd then he had one or t wo a ssistants t o hel p hir.i, did he not ? . il. Yes.

~ One of their functions was to get tho prisoners out on p::>.ra.dc in the r.10rning, vm.s not it ? ;u Yes , t o beat thu...1 o.nd t o chase thcu amy a.s quickly o.s possibl e.

\j In return for tmt T~c bl ockaltcs t cr ~nd the s t ubcndienst had a f a irly easy t:U~1c, did not they ? A. That vm.s >ihy they i.\O.ru:tgcd t o keep their positions, bcoo.us e they aurdor cd peopl e.

Q Providing that you ·.iorc prepared t o· p]A.y. t he SS gane a nd boat prisoners you had a nuch better .il.i .10 if you were l\ functionary, did not you ? A. Certaincy,

CJ You got a better shnrc of the food l;e,causc you V/Cr e responsibl e f or the distribution, did not you ? A. Of course, it is quite undcrsto.n&.b l e ..

Q And t he bl ockaltes'J.)r a nd his assi s t ·m t s ho.d beds, did not they ? A. Yes , t hey had single beds.

O And they did not h.1 v0 t o go out on p: .. ro.cle , dil~ they ? ll. They ha.d to a ttend parades in the sa.n1... wn.y as cvcrybo<ly else.

Q Dut having a tte nde..! "the roll ca.11 th0y did not go out to YIOrk; they s to.yed in the block, die! not they ? A. They wor e pr esent during the viork too.

1) '1/ho l ookecl a fter t he block <luring th..: &.y ? The bl ockaltcster .

(..: The bl ockalt0st er!:;sh'.lre of the '~urk Yl"\s t o l ook a fter the bl ock during the day, ,·ro.s it ? A. Y cs.

Q That wo.s a very u 1ach mor e coufortn.l>lc j ob tha.n going t o work \'Ii th a working party, wo.s it not ? A.. Certainly.

CJ Of course, t he lag0m l t ester vro.s the senior prisoner or functionary of the whole car.~, was he 10t ? A. Yes.

You had to be pretty f'rien<tcy with thu Gen .1ns to get that j ob, did not you ? A. Cer t.-lincy.

(J How did the lagcr a l -ccster bo.hnvo t ovr.l:'l"..s tho prisoners ? A. In tho SlU.lC \/rzy as Capos and blockn:! . .,0sters.

Q If a lagera.ltostcr n . .:'. not boat cn pri:::onors and had not treated theo in the s ane way as the SS ~nu Capos could he. lk?.ve ovvr h eld his j ob for o. week ? J\• No.

Q D:> you rc1.1ei.1ber thi~ .. an ? (Indicati~ a.ccuso<l No. 30, Ignatz Sohlouoivioz) A. No.

Q \'fas not he a Capo at t'lnover ? A, I do not J:now hin.

Q Do yilu not r er.ier.lber 1L 1 ci thcr a t IIa.n0v0r or a t Dolsen ? A. No.

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1 \'/n. s b l ock 12 noxt t o bl ock 13 ? , .. Yos.

Vlho wns t he b l oc kal t os t er of bl ock 12 ? not knov .

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I ha.ve never been ther e , I do

1 Do you kno,·1 t hi s .. n n ? (Indicating accused No. 32, Antoni ilurdzicg) ;... No.

J \/a.s he a t Hanover ? ii.. I clo not know; I clo not r euer.Jber.

... , How U'.l.J1Y of you wer e t he re a t Hnnov0r ? 3000.

... To begin with 1500 an<1. then

4 Ho\1 <lid you a nd P t..b.nski r.nnagc to stick t ocsethcr like this ? i.. It Yro.s pure a cc i dent. rh .•ere t a ken f rou t he lis t a nd ahmys s ent t og0ther to anothe r C'.lr.lp.

1') i'.ncl you Herc lucky <.;very tiJJc ? ..• Yes , vie lud no influence in it. '.le

ncrc orcl0r cd t o go t ),3Cther a nd \'/1.,; h.'.\t~ to go t oge ther .

· ~ ·,fas the;r e ~ f a.ir · r.10unt of "bribery i n a. concentration cru:lp of Cnpos t o get goocl j obs or cxtro f ood or anyth i nt: of that kincl ? A. Unfortunately I ha ve not s een it.

I VIO.S not s uggesting you di d it, but I rms Just o.sking if it ha.ppcned in a concentration ca."':lp ? A. I ha ve no t been inter ested i n it o.nc1. I have not hoard about it.

V/hcn y ou a rrived in bl ock 13, f or ins t a.nce, cli d not the functionaries ther e offer you s ouc foe· ~ in r ot um f or ci~'.\rcttes or br ead tha t you lud r1i th you ? J 'l• I have not ho"..rd about it.

I do no t suppose ycu re:.1cub cr hiu , ''ut cli d you knov1 a aa.n co.llccl Druillcncc Ylho YC.s in your bl ock ? A. I hvlrc~ 'l.bout h i.;:4

Q \·/ho \las the bl oclml +ester i n your b l ock ? na; .• c.

l ... ~·-.. Gen .ia.n; I C.o m t kno\7 his

i) \"/ho was the bl ock orckr ly ? .~. 81.lvornl ~coplc, I think s or.ie Gen .Jans , but I do no t !m ow exactzy bcca.use it vm.; not :.ry concer n.

Q Were not you very conc<.:rncd to get oa . e f ood ? f ooc. and eo a\'lny.

A. Yes , I would t a ke' :J.y

D How u uch f ooc'.. di d you 1.10.mec to get ? once ::i. Un.y 1 s ou0ti.;,1cs twice a day.

A. l i. sr.10.ll r.1ug o-C soup, sor.lct:i.J'lcs

} There vro.s no t hi ng l ike enough t o Bt round tho \'!hol e b l ock, wns there ? A. Whoever Yro.s strvngcr could get LJ!"Cj whoever YC.s weake r c ould not . Espocinlly the strcq; Gcn .nns U'.\n..'.\gc·'.. to get ::1or c.

fJ Di d not the bl ock functionarks s ell i t ? :.. It is quite possibl e t hn t they did, but I de not knov1 bcc'.\USC it \Ins no t r.iy conce rn.

~ You keep !'.---pcat ing i t vu.s not your ocinc0rn. NolJoc\Y ha.s s ugecs t od it vro.s y et . Why do you kcG:1 repeating "I t ·.r .s not L\Y conce rn". Surczy ,YL>U ·,rorv v~::cy concernucl t o zct f c o·l i f you \/Crc om, of the prison0r s ? A. Of co\U'sc , I wns very cager to '~L t r.10rc f ood, but I did not \'ont to risk it, beca use thos e ·;1ho wcr 0 trying to push thcnsolvcs f oI'\ro.rd had t o run t he risk of bei ng beaten by t he pcopl~ ther e nnd I \In~ afro.id.

Q Tell us 'l.hL)Ut t r.is >roccssi on on tht. last f ew da.ys . \ {or.:; you 1.nr shall od out -s i de t hv b l ocks ? A. \"le hD.d t o f 'l.11 i n i n f ives a nd we wer e t hen ua.r chcd off t o the places \fhcrc th<.: oo~eon -.1.Jrc oying o.nd everybody }?.-id t o start drn.[J-;i ng the: corps e:z.

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1 Hhcn you f ell in in fivos ·wo.s trot outsi clc your own block ? . .. Yes.

~ Then did you ho.i10 to t oJcc your pl nc c in the i)roccssioq dragging the corpses? A. Ye s .

J i"fcr c there fW1cti oro.ri cs of one kind or nnothcr l.!or c oe l oss linine tho route a nd r;iakin3 you keep your pkcc ? A. Yes .

rJ An~'. 'bc'l ting people. who did not keep up ? A. Yes.

i ) Were there SS •. e!' . .:. t n.t i oncd here ~nd there o.l ong the route ? J.. Yes .

Wer e they clo i ne ;1.., sx.10 thing ? J.. Yes .

You t ol c.l us you vc r e dragged out before it Ytc.s dD.ylight . U:> until \'Iha. t tiuc in the cveni n;:; Cid it go on ? ,\. \le worked in t\IQ shifts, one party \IOr ldng until latL. ".t niBht then vie Vient t o sleep, a nc! another party \7ould r 0p1Acc us.

14 Do you r.10:1.n t her e YID.S a pa rty v1orkin3 during the nieht a s well ? , .. Yes, been.use I qyself Yllls soaet::i.ncs i n t hr.l. t s hif't.

for <} So t ho. t/the le.st three days reo.lly this procession vro.s e;oi ng on day and

nieht ? A. Yes.

(: Dic.1 you a ctually :;cc Pol a nski on thi s processi on ? Yes.

6 ff;ivr vro.s that ? Ycu t ol d us you \/<.;i.'0 1.:~rshnllcd by bl ocks. You were in bl ock 13 and by t ln t t irlc he vm.s in b l ock 16 , so you say. HoYI did you i.l.'\llr'\BC t o sec hirl ? 1.. There vror L. thrc~ bl ocks working a t the s ru.10 tine. If I went , f or instn.ncc , to the i.o.ss grave with :·.zy body I would :.1eet Pol anski car.ling bn.ck fror1 the i Ul.SS 170.vo t o get his corpse.

Q Ho\/ uany tir.1cs did :·c: u sec hir.1 ? A. Ab out three tir.les .

~ FAch tir.1e was he coai ng bo.ck o.s you vcrc goine up Yri th your corpse ? A. No , it variec.1. Scnutir.les I \M.U ccd .ng fror.1 t he :.mss e;rove to ge;t 1.>y

corpse a nd he \nts ._;"Jing in the r eve r se <~ircction ::mcl sonetir.1cs vice versa .

1 HOY/ often Y.Cre you 'h.m.t cn on thn.t pr ocessi m ? counting. Thu t h..'\ppcnec:: cvvry second.

A. There v1as no use

Q Was it quite i.r:iporGib l c to o.voi c1 being ~co.ten on th'lt pr ocess i on ? A. There Vl!ls not a s inel e p1..r s on who o.voiduil bei ng bc1t cn during t ho.t \rork.

rJ Tho only peopl e r·~o o.voic.ed it, I 3uppos c , '.rcrc Cn.pos rtho di d the boa ting ?

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A. Yes.

On tho.t pI\'.)ccssi on you hn.c t o go p~st one of t he cookhouses , d i d not you ? 1~. Yes .

Q And ther e rms a Yin. t or tank or cist0rn just outside that c ookhouse, wn.s not t here ? .1\. Yes.

~ Di ~ a ny or the s farving prisonc.rs try t o ect c.i thcr t o the f oo.2 or t o the v1atvr or even t o -:·h0 pot 1to p0clir :; outside the kitchen ? :... If anybody tri~:d t o 2) it he ;1ould not co;.10 1 .ck . Ho >10ulr1 b e shot.

.J Wa s thc r1.; o. good "...;'ll of 3hootin._; i'roi.. ;;h1,; cookhous c ? A. Cer tainly •

Who rms doing th(; :hootinc, c1o you .~orr ? A. SS and Hungarian troops .

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' J Were the SS non in t h e kitchen joi ning in the shooting ? A. They wurc shooting whenever they noticct:. nny'bo<ly tr.yin.... t o get food..

1 Ther e wa s another cookhouse on t hu t sane roa.d V/O.s t he one you pas sed, V/O.s not ther e ? A. Yes .

Q Di d prisoners try .:ind ect near the. food round tha t too ? A. Yes .

(: Were the SS u en shooting there n.s v cll ?

Q Die. the SS L.cn a ll .:;o about a n .1cd ? • .... A. Yes .

Yes •

Did they hcsi ta. t c to use their a r..-.s ? frequently • A. Yes, they used their weapons

. 'J Was tha t co .. c:ion t o all the conccntntion caups you have been in ? A. Yes.

'} When you ncr o Y.ork ing a t Ausohwi t z in the outside konnandos c.id the SS uon have any clogs with th~.l ? A. Tho SS vroi.10n had dogs; not the ucn.

IJ What .!id they use t heir dogs f or ? To s e t on the f G".iale prisoners.

\') When the wcuen ' s k0; ::iandos wont out into the fulds did the SS wonen t a ke C.Ogs ·wit h thei:1 ? i~. Yes.

Q Did the SS Woi.1en often ride a b icycle if it was a f a ir distance; the prisoners uarchc<J. onc.1 tho SS uoucn ro<le b icycl es ? A. Yes.

Q When clid PolAnski finU j;:ir.10 t o couc · .nc1 visit you in those last f ew <la.ya ? A. At thD. t tiue I i·1::i.s transferreU. fror .. b l ock No. 13 to bl ock No. 1 and he r.18.1laged a l uays t o find t:iJ.ie to eouo uncl ace no.

Q When \:/ere you transf erred t o bl ock NJ. 1 ? of the Dri tish t roops.

A. Tvro days befor e the o.rri va l

Q Arn you say Polanski ca: ... e anC!. saw you there ? J.... Yes.

Q Unless he had uamecd t o p rocure sa.10 sort of function he woulc.1 ha~ be able to get fro: .1 L)Il(; conpouncl t o o.nothcr , would he ? ;... It was quit e possi1)l e.

Q Dl odk No. 1 was in eo;:1p0uncl No. 1 o.nr'.. block 16 V/O.s in coopo und No. 2 , wo.s it not ? A. Yes.

\J And there v10.s the stor es a r ea. in butvocn the two , vns not ther e ? A. Yes.

Q There \/ere guards a round the s ·tor cs a r ea. too, were not t hcro ? A. I (10 no t lolow.

Q There vrorc guards "'.. t the go.t o of ooJJpounC. No. 1 and ccx1pound No. i , were not there ? :~. Yes , but only prison0r au.:>.rds.

() Of course, if y ou vcre on sufficiently eood t en.is vlith the prisono.i:' &'llllrds you could get t hrou,sh, could oot you ? J.. It vro.s not necessary t o be on aood t cn :lS. You could so.y: "I nr.1 e0in0 to sec ny friend" o.nd t hey would not r.rl.nd f or a short ti: !c - five 1:1inutc:::: .

1.-4 Do you really ncan t hey l ot you walk J.own the 1.1."l.in road past the cookho use o.nd past the vcget:l.l1lc stor es ? A. I did not vmnt t o pass by t he cook' house or pass the :::tores bcca~e whouvcr tli d would never ca.ic ba C1Jc because he Y~uld be shot.

(J I an ~t t.::i.lking a1out y ou personally. I 0.1.1 SU83estil16 tha t t o get frou lager / to lager 1 y~>u v.ould have t o " pas t oovkhousc No. 1 a nd past the stores . Tm t rm.s th..: only YfclY of [;oin,_~ ? A. It vm.s a road l ending froi .1 ooo 001.1pound to the ot b ,:::-, and not in ti •; ir.uuditl.tc vicinit y of the cookhouse anc1 stor es .

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Q Whore did thia road c ome ; I do not quite follon it . Ho;1 di d you s et from the ore canpound to tho otm r ? A JUong tho ma in road •

'l You Vloul.d have to pass ooakhouso No. 1 am tho vcgotabl o cella r on t ho l oft hand side arrl tho stores area on t ho rifiht hand sido , woul d you not ? A Yos, I had to poss by thoso p l oooa , tho oookhouso and t he vonctabl o oollor.

· Q ::>o you really moan that a p risoner v1os alloaod to ..-1arrlor al on,g t horo by himself ? .\. It Y1as :roally f orbidden to do so , but if soroc:on:: Y1antod to tako risks ho could do it, ospoci ally durine tho period of d r o;-;einR tho oorpsos ho vrould ccu J and nobody \·1ould not ice .

Q Lot mo s uegost t his t o you. You have boon o friorrl of I'ol anski ' s for a very lone tinP, but aro you quite suro you s a,·1 him in t hose l ast f arr days , particularly after you wont t o compound No . 1 ? A lb used t o como to soo nc . I took an oath and I am soyine only tro truth .

Q Booauso you ,.,ould l9ck do;m very much on s crnobody Ylho bec anc a kapo , \:ould you not ? A Cortoinly.

Q Ir ~ ol anski had fal lcm a t tho om h..: woul d hardly be like l y to tell you , v1 oul d ho ? A Ir l 'ol anski would bocC>l'OO a kapo h: noul d not try to conceal that fact; hu \"lould coroo to mo orrl admi t it.

~.9..".'.9~..0b1~.~d by LIEt11'. JIDRZ~O\'/ICZ.

Q You hnvo boo n asked if i)ol onsk i woulcJ hnv \, oonoc alod tho f act that ho wos o kapo. Would it be vonsiblo for hiJ 1 t o como al it from you or from tho othors of his f r iords uho \"lore tnkon t o Bel son \"l ith him ? J~ It vros iJti>oss iblo to oonooal this .

THE JUDGE AIJIOOATE: I Jo not tmderstan:l your cvidemc. about tho d r aggi ng of th:> oorpsos. Will you try arxl rolp mo . You sai d tm l?risomrs woro work i ne in shifts. lbN long c ti.Joo d id a shift consist of ? ~The Interpretor orxloavours to explain t o tho Witness) . What is tho trouble ? It scorns a ve ry simplo qoostion: Hau l ong o tinP d id a shift last in regard to oar ryi ne tm corpses in tho l ast f m1 days at ilolson ?

THE INT2RI'lra'l'ER: Ho s o.iJ m had n~ \latch and he cnrmot say hcw1 lo~ .

THE JUDGE ,-.:JIOOATE (To thu witross): About how many hours do you thirl< tho shift lastod dra~il\", corpsos ? A Sometimes 1 2 hours one shif i;; s omctiroos 8 hours , ~c-nJ timos 3 hours.

Q Do you say , or do you not soy that you Ylor o ol ways worlc i ng on the s ame shift with Polanski ? It is not c l ear to T.'!C . A No, not al ways .

Q Soiro times would you bu sleepi ng whilu ro v1a s \"la rking ? l•. I kncm that opl.y Ge rmans wo r e assistant block altostors arrl only t hose Ylho c ould speak Gorman.

1 .. :MEMBER OF THE COURT: Did you wor soo any r ubbo r truncheons beirc used i n nny con:>ontrat i on camp ? A No, I di d eoo .d'ticks , but I have not soon rubbe r t rune ho ons.

~~CY.l'l .C:R l1~113!JR OF TJfil 001.J"R'.i' : Di d you soo ony S. S. \1omon in Be lson ? A Yos .

Q Wero they ~nnod ? ,'., I do not knc:r · , because they used to carry tl-Pir arms under the ir clothes.

Q So you d id not sec t L. .... 1 fire at anybody ? oornpourrls, so I c oull not soc .

A Thoy YiCro i n diffe r e nt

THE PRESILJENr : Have you any quostiom to ask on what the Cou:bt has oskod ?

LIEUT . JEDRZEJO'i/ICZ: No . B.

(Tho Yt itness nithdr aws) .

r _..____ ______ -·. -. -- - -- . ~~~~~~~~=~~-·~-~. -~-; .. ~. ; .. :::. ~--~-.~ .. ;_:;_~--~-~-~ ·c.-· ·-----· ..,..._._ . .:. ___ ······ ---~~ ~

LIEUT . JJD!rlEJa.-:roz: Tm n::xt Hitmss is No . 24, Totnrczuk.

LIEUT . 1.f. Ti.T,..RCZUK i3 c o.lie d in aril hD.v inc bc:: n d uly suorn i s examined by LI:-~·iT . JEj)RZEJO.:ICZ ns f oll0\·1s :

Q \/hat is your full name ? A 1 ~wion Totarozuk .

r., \/huI\.. aril vrhon -.:cru you born ? i~ 1st August , 1 913, in Samora, Russin .

~ ,.re you n i olisl. Notionnl om n : c lish citizen ?

Q Whc.t ·::ns your la~t ndd ross in PolnnJ ?

q r:hat was your occupation before t h.,; war ? ;.rtillory.

ThE :CRESIDENT : Is that tho Polish ,,.;rny ?

A Zauosc , :i:oloril .

4~ Profcssionnl officer in tho

LI3t.JT . JEDRZEJO.IICZ: Yos . (To tho witnoss) : Ylcro you nrrestod , or ·aero you mado a prisoro r of \"lar ? A On tho 12th Soptonber , 1 939, I yros tclcon prisonor arrl I momgod to oscnpo nfter four days . Then I v1os arrested again on 7th October , 1 939, arrl after four weeks I r.innngod to escape again. I oscnpo<l to Posen onl I stayed tho:ro trio r.10nths. La tor on I vent to ',forsaY/ aril I 1 ivcxl thoro one year , an:1 fr on there I ,.,ont to Zamosc, and I v1 oa at l ar go until t ho ·. 5th June , 1 942 .

Q '7hat happened thct day ? A I \/OS arrested by the ~stapo in Lublin.

Q What happomd to you rcxt ? A I \/OS kept in priso n in Lublin for thrco mmths, then transferred a:ftor n sovon cloys qucstioni ne by Gestapo to ·::orsa\"t. I spent 8 months t ho re 1 and on 1 3th Hoy 1 1 943 , I nos transferred t o .. i .. uschai tz .

Q lbw long did you stay i n J .. uschtritz ? J.. Until tho 1st Scptcmbo r, 1 943.

Q \'/hat vrerc you empl oyed at ? A I \"/as employed in Bor konou in block No . 26 in building barr acks f or two \looks .

Q \Jhero d i d you go when you l oft i~usch.•itz ? Ncuengammo .

a I \'/Ont to comcntrl\tion camp

Q Ho.v long d i d you $tay in Neuongamno ? 4~ E ieht months •

Q I/hot v1urc you empl oyee] at ? cmpl oyc 1 on drn i nor,o .

•• I \/O.S work i ng in nn outs ide korrmarilo

Q -::hen you l e ft Noucngrunno whcro wore you sent to ? i'.. I orrivod in Hannover-Stocke on 30th Moroh , 1 944.

Q trow long d id you stoJ in Hanrovor-Stock:e ? 1~ Until tho 5th J'..pril 1 1 94.5.

Q ¥/hat VIM your ·work in Honnovc r-Stoc1,c ? J.. i.t first I ,.-orkod in a battery f aotory, and later on I v:cs tro.nsfc. rrod to tailors' shops in tho camp.

Q ~ill No . 47 stand up . you kna.v t his man ~

Q \','hat is }-.is nar:.o l

(J.ccusoc1 No . 47 , i .. ntoni ?olanski, starrls up) . Do i.. Yes, I uo kn011 hi m.

.i. ;~toni :Polanski .

Q ',7hor o did you moo·· him first ? J.. Dur i ng the first days of my stay in Hannovur-Stuckc ,

Q Did you knou him ,, ·:y well then, ot tro time you \/Ore both i n Htlrmovcr-Steck:c ? J. Yes 1 I oamc to . no;1 him ve ry \loll bocousc we lived i n the S £1J11c block .

9.

Q •;:hat k i nd of n r.1r:m wos he thon ? ver y ca lm arrl s0 lf- c ontrollcc1 .

,. Ho \i.'.\3 n Boixl fr i on:: ; a d1.;c0nt ncm,

Q iihat v1as ho doil'l; i n his sparo tir..o afte r ho f i n i shed h i s noxk ? porfor n:cd the dut i es of a borbor in the bl ock .

,. Ho

~ :>il he toke. ~my rommor otion f or this \for k ? ,. Y0s , he received r e;mun1.;r.:.ti on in tho f or T.l of od l1itione1l soup or bread from tho blocknltost01'.

Q T:i.t.._. ., ·A• .:. wne t o :i3e lsen d id you soo thi s nccuscd thorc aga i n or a id you not ? A I mot him fre quently i n .Sc l son.

THE JUDGE "':.JVOC • ..TE: Can Y/o have o -.le.to \1r.c n ho nrrivcd at Dolsen.

THE PRESDENT : TJe } :we got ho was at Hannov or - Stocko until t ho 5th ;ipril, but YIO hove not a c1 .:.to f or Be lson.

LI.IDT. JZJ~EJC1.IICZ (To tho witness ): ' ·'hon d i.l you nrrivc at 3c l son ? ~'.. On tho 7th 4· .. pril, 1945 , a t 2200 hours .

Q ·;ioro you i n the s amo block at l3clscn ? .... Ho rms in block No . 1 2 am I v1as i n bl ock No. 13; t hoy v1oro t\;o neighbouri ng blocks .

Q ::>o you know if he stayed in t his bl ock until t he l i ber a tion ? A J.£t<.,r o s hor t t i.rr.o - I do not knot1 when - ho vms transf e rred t o bl ock No , 16. I myself' nas t r ansferred t o block !To . 1 , but I used t o moot him in t ho c amp nnl fr om his words I k now tha t ho \las i n bl ock No . 6.

Q Havo you boon, after t he camp r10.s liberat cu , in c ontact n ith any l'Oliof' committee ? :~ Three days b0 . ..''o ro tho British troops a rrived I inruw[;oo t o eot t o tho dr u :-; store of tho c:.~ , om I a is tr ibuted d r ugs t o the pr isonvt'S . iSter t he British t r oops arr ived o J.'>olish c ommittee Y1as f or med and one section of it , tho mcd ict.l s ection, nos unJcr my supervision . ·

_..1..l!lJT . JIDRlEJO.iI CZ : I think there '.":t.s a mi stake in translation, Fo dhl not say " sup.-rvisi l'l[; t he ncd i.cal section" . Ho said he v1as i n t he mc d icol section . (Thu que;stion is r epeated to the \f itness) . J~ I nas ,.,orki ne in t ho <l r UL, si;oros therv n ith t ho rx.>d icol s 0ction of too c ommi ttee .

Q ~o yo u knc • .r if t:.erc ·;1cro p oopl o sent by t his oorrrnittce t o try ortl f i m .out ony ollui:ations c r ony information about cri.Jros Hhich had been conmittod by bl ockaltcstors , lager altostors, or ony ot hor funct i onary internees 1 .. '.. Yes , I knou about i t , because I mysolf porticipote~ i n enquiries cow crnod with cr imes c ommitted by f ormer f unctionaries in Belson errl i n t ho otror comps .

Q Did you ever r e ceive any allegations ogains t :i.'ol ansk i ? ... No , I hnvo not h:lf\rd about f'.ny .'.\llc3ations ogni rot i 'ol onski. No cl..legot i on c ame to our k i rrl of c our t \le.; f'or mod ther e , onJ our c ommittee .

Q ~·.s f <'. r os you k nr-,1 it would have b<;o n possible f or anything tc be broueht t o your c onvnitto v; nny allegation could hove boon freel y brought ? J·. Yes . I kno:1 t h at t horo wore Mnny nllo.sctions br ought t o our coinmittoo , e1m t hat if' thcr<.. wore any nllegr tions QBninst J.lolansk i they ilould have · to our comr.1ittc.0 . I nm sur e t hat durini:; tho t\10 months durirc which Pol nnski r omRi nod in tho camp no "llogntions v1or o brought £'.£;n i nst him .

1.;.JOR \"."!N.700D: :Soth mys elf nm Ah j or · .unro hwc no qoosti.ons .

Cross- oxomima by : . .Joa CR.J~IELD.

Q Hau l ong d i d you .:>tay at Bal son nl'tor the libvr otion ? A I rem.'\i nca in compound No . 1 till 10th Moy , nnd t hon I \/US t r absfcrrod t o c ompoun:1 No. 3 whor e I am t ill tho pr esent c1 oy .

1 o.

··----- - --.. --~~sc---- - .-...: ..

Jo you r cmcmb ... r ::i :.,ritish toom o omi n;; to iJolscn t o investignto Ymr crimes ? .. Yos , I do .

Q Have you boon askc<! to g ive ovidonoo f or tho r r osecution in this c oso ? ;.. No .

(Tho rcrnai ninc Deforrling Officer c1o not desir e t o que stion tho v1itnoss) .

Cro'.is- exeminod by COLONi1L :1.cKIDUSE.

Q i·lhot is your present r onk ? :. Lioutonnnt .

Q r:ha t is your p r esent unit ? I olish Liu is on Office r .

Q \7ith v1hom ? ... i.ttochod t o tho :i:' olish Linison Officer, Dc r3on- Bolson.

Q ,·.re Yrho i s the :i:olish Lioison Offic or nt 3or gon- Bolscn ? lioutonont Bombo.

Q :.no attaorod you t o hi m ? A He himso 1i' •

Cl ,·Lro you a pro• nar professional sorvil".[~ sol d ier ? i. Yes .

i• Sccon1-

Cl r:hot off ort hava you rnn<lo t o r eport yoursolf t o your Goverrm::i nt or ony proper Polish milit~ry for mation ? A I rcporte<l to the military c omp at Untorluss .

Q To whom ? J,. .,o lia j or i '.o0usoki .tho is i n charge of it.

Q 1ihat \1as your unit 0cforo the wnr ? ,. 18 He avy .ii.rt ill e r y ~~cc imont .

Q ii.here J i d you rcc ... i·.ro your troinil'\'; ? n In Torun; I e roduntcd from tl:oro .

Q This }.iojor you s n: :1ou reported t o , whot is his position ? Camp Comnordont o:..' n forncr prisomr of nor camp.

Ho is the

Q Is it a comp for ~: isplocod porsons ? prisoners of \7ar.

,. It is only for tho foroor ~'olish

Q Ho.·1 d i d you eot bti~k to Belson ? H I V/O.S liberated in Delson, and then I roportcxl to too pr isoror of wor OM1p 1 orrl I ,.,os rc-d ireoted from there to Belson to assist Scnond-Lioutennnt Bomba .

Q You, as a Liouten'lnt, sent to assist a Sooen:1- Lioutonant ? i~ Yes .

Q It is rothor strorno, is it not ? A It mi ght s oom n little stroneo , but tho Sooond-liuutonc.nt has a good kr.orrlcdc;o of Enelish, Fromh arrl German, a nd theref ore his qunlitics aro hie hor thon mioo . I nark onl y in tho education dopartrront .

Q Y/hot s ort of identity c ord have you [;ot ? A Do you nant to sec it ?

Q i.'hat type is it; ·;1ho i ssued it ? A Tho dooum:ints I have \:cro issued by tho lioadquartors in Belson. 1.l)ort from thot I have my vorificoti on papers issued by speci al v erif icotion boar d in ui.Jrq:)clvt.

Q Te ll me about this : olish o anmi ttt:•; ·:rhich nas invostieati ng nor crirr.os . ·:iero you a m::imber ' tho c cmi.1i ttoc ? J. No , I have not boon o morrbcr of this c ommittee . . \:as ''orkil'\S onl y in the dru~ stores .

Q Ylho ware tho mom!'- ,.."' nf it ? .·~ Thorv Y.rc ro t wo boards , t here '1as tr.o Poli.sh canmittc0 llnd tho 'i.!Wl:>trelf!U ~ion toB111 . \ihl..oh on:: do you rnonn ?

Q Thu invc stit;cti on c Jf.lni ttoo ? i . The C hoirmon of tho toDT.l \fos :iJr . Kuo un1 the :Cros ... outor wci.c Jn.rr istor Ludno\/sk i .

11 •

I

k ............ _.. . ........... _ . -~ .. ... . --- -·· .. . •--. __ - .- .. - .. 7 .. • ~:.--: . . .. :. : ... ··--·· -- - .. .. . . . . · .. ...... ... ......... . . .. ~ - , .. \-.... :4·:· ·:-···--. . 4 . •• • • ••

... .

Q :Jid they tllkc stat; oonts from poop l o ? '" Yes . If onybody knov1 nbout ony irx::idont that c oul ~ bo cori..sidorod os a war oimo , wo woul d tllko tho necessary stops und s oci..:.ro that statements should be made .

Q IIovu you any idea \:ltat thoy hove don; with al l those stotcmcnts ? ,, ,·.ii t hose statorronts 'llete handed over to th:> British Invest ig ation Toom that c ome t o Bel s on.

Q V/hon ? J.. Grauually.

Q Did you make a s t at ement to tho r:or Crir.;os Inve stigation Tear.1 ? ... I hove not .

Q Either to the Po1.ish orx:: or t o t ho : ritish om ? .~ To neither .

Q

Q

Do you know w}'pth:. 't' the Poli.sh Toon hat1 :my nllcgat i ons against any of thoso otmr peopl e VTho a r c in tl'P Jock ? For instoncc , i .. urdz i og ? A Yes , t hey have .

Tm :i. olish Commi ttvc hove hod olloc.;utions aen iri..st him, huvc they ? J·.. I do not know •

. ihich of' those ans\:ors do you n:can,"'les tl:o y h~vc , or 11 ! do not kno..,.1 ? (The Interpre ter c.?1 ! t},o witross cor1110rso t oe...:t hor in :i. 'olish) . limy r10 kno.-1 v1hat s orr.o of t his is a bout ?

Tl£ l'IIBSI!:>ENT: He f irs t of all said , "Yos" 1 ar.d then he said , "I <lo not kno\111 •

iihat is t ho bother no11 ?

THI!: INTER?IrarER: Thh· l.ncornpatability of s tator.-.onts vras cous"d by tho fact that I spoko about the ~· ;t when I s a id "They had ullceations" , but I do not kncu wmther they have n v at p resent .

COLONEL B.~CKHOUSE: I am not norriod about wmthor they have p,ot thor.1 at prosant. I merel y \'l ant to krr- · whvt hcr they have hod thor.1 . Up to ncu vie have hnd "Yes" and "I do not .now" . Thora i o only no lcf't . I v:ill ask you ~:ain: :>id tho c or:nni ttoo L·.vo allegations against thi s Man hur<lz i ce or havo they (llfvr had them ? ''- I do not know.

Q -:-lhy d id you say " Yes" t ho first ti.rr.c ? :1. I d i c1 not spc llk about Aurc.lzio~ .

Q :)o you r .... ally kno11 anythi~ about thfo conmittec or these investigat i ons ? ... Yos , I do knon.

Q i)o you kno.-1 whether tlicy hnu nny ol l v ~ntions agai ns t 8chlomovicz ? . .. I do mt know.

'l In fact , tho only nan you kno.·1 unythiq; o bout i s :i. 0 1anski; is that rir~ht ? I am sure they hwo not ~ot any a ~oinst ~ olonski , because I mad~ enquir ies

in that matter .

Q Why ? ... Bocc.· ~c I v1as a sked about it in P.v lson and I made statonxmts on this matte r .

Q \"lho to ? ;.. T0· trL British Invostir;at i on Te am, to a Ltc jor .

Q ·,nl(,,n was this ? ... .1' .. bout t-.10 r.1ont l :s U[~O .

Q Ho:.r l on<; ~1ic~ this ::ol 1.s r inve:st~ation team f~tion ? .... For f'ivo Hooks till tho t i me ·.7hon ' · t:.. y wore transf<.rro~ from tho c ompourrl No . 1 to tho Compound No . 3

Q Do you know i f thu.1 v o r sent any of tho r esult s of t hdr invosti~ations to t ho I 'ol ish \·lnr Cr imes "--uison Officor ? j.. I kna:r that they sent tho result of tho il' invcsti~o ~ '"'n to the Br i t i sh Commi ssio n . \'foothor they sent any t o tho :i. olish Liai n Officer for tho invost i e at i on of \7ar eri.Ih;s , I do not know.

1 2.

~--.~-- ,' ,,

•. ~---------- --.- ....:

~ Whe.t Britisl~ c01:uission n.ro yov. tal.Jd.ne; ab~?' Toau.

v• Which one? .... l 'hat one vlhich \/US in cl:l.lp No. 1 a t !3clsen.

~· How r:i.any kapos c1o you think they s·mcl r eports about? U.i J. not check tha. t . il• I do not know, I

~· H~vc you o.ny ice~? su~pose about 30 .

, .. Judgi ng by :)riva.t e infon:iati on a ntl talks I ho.c:, I

~· \/hen you v1cr c L1 "J.,lscn o.s a prisoner before you l>00c"U.:e a n of r"'icer t her e vmre you a llo·.ic2. t o wal k about thc. C'.'l.. .1;> qui t o frcc.ly, in and out of the cou:X>un('.s wher ._ y::iu liked? .~. !;...:r 2c n-Dds en consists of three nrco.s , so-callc~ ..:""iel~, :i.nu it 'ro.s poss i Jl t. t o no ovi..r fror.i one a rea t o the othe r a r ea.

v• I a, I not quite suro who. t you uenn, :..iut thor ..; \IUS a ;.ic.m I s la:..,er one a nd also a •. 1cn' s l~...::·~r t\·~. ... Do you : . ..:'ln t he cor.tp JITo. 1 o r ----

v• I t old you v1hat I .• c.ant . Will y •)U 0.l)~)ly your i.:int..1 t o the question you were asked. \/hen you r1c r c a prisoner i n ::Jer J en-Delson \'/Us not thor~ a la.g9r~ 1 a nd a l ager 2 for uen? .. ~. Yes, ·tt tho.t ti;-.te t here were cn;:1ps No. 1

1 No.2

a nd No.3.

J• Diel Cai.ip No.1 consist of b locks 1 ~o u? •.• Yes.

~ · Thon next t o thn.t Yll'.lS ther e a sto ru'3 a.r un consistin~ of blocks 9 a nd 10? A. '.1.'ha. t i s right.

v• Next t o that Vr.J.S t he r e ca..1p No. 2 wh ich consistucl of 1.>l ocks 11 to 26? but block No.11 v1a s no t a livi~ ul '"'ck.

.. ~. Yes ,

: . I w:i not worried about thn. t . \icr u prisoners a llowed t ) pus s freely frou c o1.1p.:>un2 No.1 to co;:1:;ouncl Jio. 2 a.ncl back? ... Ther e were restrictions.

J • What wcr1.: the restrictions? • • ~·Ln ordimry prisone r who vias not on a !'unction or had. ··.rry specia l \ l .:>rk t o c~o out si<le of his O\m ca .;:)Ounc! \f.:lS

not a l l owed to 1 1..-.V•..: tho cou?oun<l., .:i.nd that u?-,liecl t o "Joth caup No. 1 o.nd ca.;.1p No. 2.

J• But wer e functiomrics pcn .1i t tc..t"'!. t·J p::i.s s frou on(; ca rp t o a nother? "·• Y os , that i s right ; thos r; on functions ·.-1;r c unt i tled t o go f r oi.1 oue cw.~1 t o the other .

'v• Dut if you were n t o. functionary you were not enti tlcd t o .JO f:ro .. 1 one to t he ot her unless "·ou ·;1cr1.;, t~ken on ·t Yiorkinc po.rty? ; .. Thn t is rieht.

1v• No\/ there is only >nu o thur thin~·. I vu.nt t o usk you. Coi.lpOUlll~ No.11

b l ocks 1 , ·2 a n<l 3 Herc fur the f it pcopl ._ .1ho wer i.. 5oi ne out on YIOI'kinc parti1.;s , wer 0 not tl-.ey? : •• Yes •

• • Zodclcl " a s t he 1.0.3 .. ro.l tcs t cr, •n s not he? .•• Ye s .

v• How ">l!.l.S it Pol a nski \/U S not trnnsl\)l'lXU \the n t he rest of you \iCre t ransf erred t o :..lock No. 1? :.. No t a ll of u...: .rvri.; tn.nsferrerl t o b l ock No. 1, only the Gen.n ns or of Gcn . .an ori..,in, the t!..1ctors o.nQ thu 1.K:u"'.Jcrs o f the band, a ntl I vr.i.s a .Jet. l>cr of the :,ancl.

v• \/as Rakoczy a. r~Cl:1'01.:r of the b.:i.n,1 t vo? A. No.

•v • \las he. of Gcrr:ian vrl. ·;i n? .~. No •

• • Was he u doctor? .'i.. No.

.:• Ho..,., .. ii <l he co~.1c to .JI.! tr.:i.nsfcrrod?

13. ,\. It tlupcn<ls \then he was t ransferred.

/

... /

. . .... ·- ·- . ··- - -------· -··- - -

. • I su:;~c,s t t J you t lw. t the f'i t . :en fro •. ! your t~sports ; v1ho wcro fit for 'llork, ·:1crc t:ro.nsfcr~"(: t o ca..:) No. 1 , unl:1..:sn t !.:cl had sorJc fWlction in cru.lp No. 2 . _,. No.

. I

v• Did ? ol· .ns!d. co::ic ~nd: visit you in C•li .• p No. 1 nftor you had uovc..:l the r e? ••• I C.o not re;:i~ubcr ~1he:th ...:r i .t was in ca . 1p No. 1 ~ t l:now only tha t I uct hjj·.i,

.:-.n\."".. I wuulc.l lilcc t o indic:l t o t ho.t I ho.l1 tJ1c riLJ,ht to · uovc freely in t he cru:rp l>c:cn.usc I r.rn.s a ... cr.~~cr of the. c:'.. :p bancl, o.ncl apart fror.1 that I wo.s workin::; in th~ clr'UJ stor es .

• • You were a function; .i-y t oo, wc r u not y0u? ~·~· Yes •

-~v---X'lI:tinud '.)y L'f. JEDRZEJO\iICZ.

'J• You so.id you \l0r0 ·~ :.u.:::.:~)er of the C!\. n b~ncl. Do you !aiow the :.iaj ori ty of the 1.1erabcrs of this 1n .nd? A. I a ·.1 u')l <.: to, :mt a ll of ther:. arc c""..co.d now.

v• Were they ;Jen only or di<l you ho.vc: ''°···'-'n in the !.land too? A. ' During the periou bef ore tht: British troops urrivcc1 thcr ..; wc ro only five u on in the ~and, but l o. t cr :m t yro woucn cai.i<.: t o hc.l p us •

.:• \Ins it, <lo you think, '.ifficult f or bl ocka.ltcsters or etubendienst while 2.istri:,utin!~ f ood t 0 contol his fellow :)risoncrs? , A. It was very clifficul t a. t the l a tcr period<

' .• Do you think i t Yt0~1~~ b e true to so.y ·cl a. t in l3e:lsc n it vm.s '.Jy f 1r uorc diffi cult than, for :rnstanqc, Ho.novcr- 5tccke , or Hamburg- NcucnEru;uu or even ,\uschvd tz? A. Certa inly,. I qui t o a ~rue.

'..J • Would you think t ho.t ;ivine vor1Jo.l oruurs to prisoners durin~·; f ood clistri!mti on wo.s sul':.:·icicnt or. \n:~s m,t sufficient? iL• l)J.ri~ the last eight days of i.ty s tay in : ' ..,lscn ver'ml oru.:r:> ' \ 10 rc of no a-vail at a ll, 'because tho prisoners \ferc starvl.: o.n<.1 they Ui<l i1<J t 0ct arzy food •

.• You ho.vc :.ecn asked to icll.:ntify o. :.tun iodJ.cl . Co.n you tell · the court hm·1 he 'behaved in :::'cls t-n ca; .• p? ;u I cannot r eally so.y. I h:ivc never s c<..n r.iuch o:i: hi u. I ·;f0..s in ;:y block a nC: he uscJ t o co:.1c there only once or twice o. day f or ins?Cction, and three cl'l..ys buf'oro the British troops arrived the whol e Ge:r..ian personnel.. "l eft the CO!.~·

v• Di i! you sec hi.:·.1 l>c:o.tin ·; prisoners? ~'..· No, I ho.vc not.

THE JU1.X.E _'i.DVOCJ1.:~'B : Ycu know, I su~_rX>n "' , that Pol o.nski Vl'D.S a so l dier, dH!. you? '~• Yes.

~· iias he !>icked up as ' so l di er a n :l r<v'"'o~·t1 Jd t o the: a.uthori tivs , like. you? J~. lio •

.. • When c1id this Polish Cor:u i ttec of Enquiry finish its work a t Delson - who. t clAto , a.bout? i~. After f ive vru"': ~~, - a. ,out 10 or 15 C-Jays.

' ~ · When did you first ..... 1 :Jvr th.at o. Jlegn tiuns had l>ccn 1.llldd aga.ins t Polanski and that he had ocen ~~stcc a t Dolsen u<.:co.use of thusc a lleg:a.ti ons? ;L. It \/t\S

a.bout f our 1.1onths a~;o , a nc:!. aft er a f1.M \fl;cks a s <.;rJco.nt frc;:i the 1 ~ili tary Govern .1c:.nt c1Dc tc :.~ -: '\nc1 a skoc'! 11e Ylhe thcr I lmcw anythin3 a~out Polanski, a nd it was there ·. /h1.;n I 1Jo.de i . .y sto.tt-. ,r.,nts .

~J• Lastly, a.re you recv!. ·:ing pay o.s o.n , .C'.i:'icur nov/? ... I have not rocei vccl it yet t ~ut I ·.ro.s proui:.;.-11 to rc:;cei v~ it :;hortly, 400 uarks a i.10nth.

THE PRESIDENT : Have you ·1ny qucs tions on that?

LT. JEDRZEJOWICZ : No , Sir .

(The \Ii too so \ Ii thdrnvrs)

LT. JEDRZEJOWICZ : Thi:.: toncludcs tho CD.n of the accused No. 47 ( t..nton :i.'?ol anski) 14-

.. ... _ .. ·- .. - ---------- -·---- -

The next a ccused I rc.1Jr e.31..nt is Helem Kopper , No. 46. The evidence a6ainst hc;;r is partly v ... r bnl a.n1.:. partly in statu-.icnts . The sto.teuents arc in volu.10 16 , Ros enber13, 1.!!lrkcd Exhibit 73; volw.10 15 , Exh i bit 1 G, Bi a l<.:k, and in the s ru.ic voluuc , Exhibit 34, Halina Furstenberg. The live Vli tnessc s , ".uten.-.an, voluuc 11 , pnccs .35 a.ncl 36; volune 12, Sync cr and Koppel , page s 4 1 5, 6, 7, J nnd 9. I Hill no t Cl.cal ·:Ji th the affidavit of StojomJ~1 which r~~lly eontQins no ~ccusation uxcc.,pt she speaks about tho ~ca ting in \'thich Ko; ·:.:>1.;r ·;ras i nvol vcd 'I.nu 'boa. ting hersel f , an..1 she sa.ys she rm.s in the 9ru .. p :?olico 1ncl. a blockaltcster .

THE PRF~IDfillrr : ·1.n i ch a:ffi c::ivi t i s tho. t?

LT. JBDRZEJOVIICZ : St o j o\1Ska, r>a.ee 14u. in the box. I p r opose now to put Helena Kopper

'l'hc : .. ccus1,;tl HELE.Ni.. KO??ER to.kcs her stand a t 1hc place froa:1 which the uthe r witnesses h-ive .:;iven their cvi c!cncc and, having bcc.,n d:..tly sworn, i:3 cXAi.linccl by LT. JEDRZBJO•HCZ a s f ol l ows :

.:• r.'ho. t is y our full ~"J.lc?

j. \Vhcn nnc..l vthcrc vrcrc yc u born? .-... 24th Fd1r uary 1910 in Ploki , ?oland.

~ . ·,/ha. t vm.s your l a st a.•ldJ:·c ss in Pol o.nd? :h I n Cracou , Poland.

J• ,'..ro you ;Jarri cd or a.re you sin3l c ? ..• Mo.rri..::d.

. • Hnvo you ~ot chilclrcn? Jle Two sons •

• • How old c..r c they? .u .• t the t:iJ.ie ·;rhun I ·;ro.s a rra s t cd one \ns six yours of n3e , the other one nine .. 1onths.

.;• Hha t wns your occupn t i on? :.tothcr und a vii.fa • ;h I huC. no occu::>at i on; I vro.s a t hoiJe; I nas n

•• \'/ere you e ventually .:..:::--r~stcd by the r""'r. 'V\ns? ,... Yc.,s , on the 24th June 1940 I wns nrrus t cd.

. • "1Thy \lor e yo u a r restt..l!.? were nnti -Gc n .1a1i. A. !.loco.use I \l:lS in the possession of l eafle ts \'lhich

J• Y/hnt hnppenec! t o you 'ti't er you \'lore a rrested? ,.. I r.us in pr i son in Cro.cow, he l d by the Gestapo, till t he 15th Oct0u0r 1940.

' .:• Vlha t then? I.. 1rh0r .... 'ilerc 60 vo..ien u l togothC;r n.r r e s tcd a t that tin e ; 31

wcro sentenced to tlea th a nd 29 sent t o t he conccntra tion ca.up in Ravensb ruck •

• • How l ont;; di d you stay in Ravensb ruck? .... Till th0 20th October 1942 •.

. • What rrere you empl oyf::cl o. t in R11 vensb:n;ck? crcua t oriu.:i. • ~. Juildi.ns shcl t ers near the.,

· ... How were you trca t cd in Ravensbruck? us • ... Very bn.dly; not only ue ·.Jut a ll of

..,:. Whon you l e f t Rn.vcns'..>ruck \'lhurl- clid you F.:P to? Jl• To f.usGh,-tl tz vl:i. th u tMnsnort.

, . ·,ihcn \Ins i t you arrivcc.~ in ;.uschrri tz? , ... It \'las t he 21st o r 22nd o~toLcr 1942 •

• • Hovr l on.c Cid you st::i.y in .. uschvri tz? , ... Till the 20th Dcc e::1ber 1944.

... \lhL\ t \"/Ore yo u c;.::)l oyc.c. 'l. t in i.uschrl:i. t:;·1 ;.. For t\/o wcoks 1 vos in a non iltl b l ock uncl then I \ras .rc.,.1..)ortc.,d hy t he l ". ~urfuhrcr a nd vrcnt to t he pu nishr.1cnt Jco1.li.ll\ndo.

. .... ·- ·-... - --------·------

v• Huvc you eot the nw·.1bcr t o.ttoocd? .... Yes.

... • ·\·/a.s it tl'.. ttoocl1 in Ra.vcns0 r uck or in .\usch\·li tz? · \ro.s the sn:.1e nw.1bcr that I v10r c in Rc.vensbruclc.

... In .. \usch,litz, '!)u t i t

J • You sai d o.ftcr you h h·. been r eported ';y the lugcr f uhrcr you w0r c s ent to t he punishuent korx.~-..nJ.o. How lo~ clil1. you s t o.y in the :·mnislnent ko:i . .a.ndo?

:... Till ' ·.Y 1..1cparturc tc ~crgcn-Dclson •

... • How Herc you trat<.:d in the strofcko ..•.. a n<:' .. o? J•• I hn.vc not b0cn trcnt cd too badly uysclf 'u..;c·:-t.usc I ho.J so • .10 experience in conccntra tion co.:.1ps unc1 I knc\"1 what I shoulc: .:.o a nd I shoulc1 no t do •

... • \las the work you wcrx, f orccu to do in tho i:>Ul'lish 1cnt ko .. uando a hrovy one or n licht one? ..... It wa s the h·.:.rdcst IJOSSi~lc j ob anyone could get in a. conccntra. tion c:-.;·.1!_) •

. • Now ·.1hcre die: yo.u 0 '0 fro::·. ;.uschwi tz? .i.. I \1cnt t o i3cr een-Deison n nc1 I arriveJ. t hurc on the 27th or 20th Dcc1..i.lbl..!r 19L..4.

v• Hovi did the C'.l.. .• p l ook when you arrivuc!? \ /c..s it just like the tiuc of the lib ere tion or vms i t ". different c!u.ip? :.. ·.; e co;-.1c to so - ca llee:!. t ents , anC'.. the state o f the coi.\~) v1n.s uifferent tkm a t the tine of the li'.:lcrat i on.

..... Hovr long c.id you stay w1dcr canws? :.. The \ lind J.cst roycd the tents a.nc1 vro ·were transferred t o vrooden 1)arrncks a f t er a short tii.10.

. • Wha t wa.s the m.:nber of' the first b l ock you were s ont to? 1 .. 27 •

... • \Iha t l)c.'lrt of the caup ...-ru.s it? ;l. I t,1ink it \ /US caup No. 1.

J• Was it al\ra.ys usc<l by wo~.1<.:n, this pnrt 0f the c:u 1p? J.h No , it wa s only t c 1porarily used '.Jy YIO.Je;n o.nL!. l a t or 1 n Kruucr o.rTi vcc! and \16 ·;1erc tronsf erred t o anot her part of t hl..! con?, so •. 1c of us t o :>l ock No. 205 o.nC. others t o b lock 224-

• .. • Di d you hol d o.ny :::iosition in ~lock No. 27? , .. Yes , I \JaS a ssi stin..:; .)lockultcstcr •

... • ',/ho o.ppoi ntcd you to hel p the o loclml t 0stc r? ; ... Th1; b l ockal t es t er herself; I \/I\)tc Jovm the nur.i;>er s , hel ped her •

... • Di <l your o.ppoi nt:.:1..nt h'lvo o.ny Gen.urn n·J,10? ,.. No , it ho.s not; I sil.1ply h c:l pocl her .

~ · Do you ·.1w.n b y t his y0u ·wer e; .:\ \/US it nn o f f icin.l position? but the ~lockaltes t cr knmr .. :c;

sort of privo.tc help to the '!.>lockaltestcr o r , ... It ·.1:1s not o.ny offic i o.l. n.ppoi nt..ient,

she nsl-.c<'~ ;:10 t o hel p her a nd I n.i:;rccd.

.. • How lon~~ C:id you stD.y i n b l ock No. 27? ••• Only fow~ days •

·~· in10. t mppencu t hen? Goll.:isch up?Qintccl :;:1c

... I '.IO.S trnnsfnrrcd t o -:Jlock No. 205 :mil rapportf'uhrcrin u.s block.al t cs t c1· •

• • \'/er e you \1-:..m;il\, to ~ .... tra nsforr0d frc . . '..>lock No. 27 to block No. 205? "'"• No , a ll of us ·;1~ru s -.-nt , the vlhol c b l od-: vcs s ent fr~L! b l ock 27 to b l ock 205,

~.nd ns the dn.y ~eforc t he b locb .l tcs t cr f r o; 1 'Jlock 27 n~s transferred t o anothur '.Jlock I , as l".n cxp<..rience;d po.c:..1 m, \f.l.S ..... '1. .e l>locka.l t os ter o.nd went t odethcr ·;fi th the viholc '..>l ock, 'llrcacly '\S h l ock.11tcstc r .

y• How l on.., ~'1Cr0 you block.::..l tester of No. !05 !.>l ock? ,.. Three ·;ro.eks .

~ · \/hat hr.i.p:Jcncd t o you ... hun? ••• The \it•l>ll- ~lock -.n.s transf err(al t o bl ock 224 in COl.lpound. No . 2 :.,cc· .. u..;0 of thv uutbrv1k or' typhus in the :-rcvio u s 'Jl ock.

• • Ho\/ l ong wer e you ::i1ocL'l.l t es t cr of bloc..k 22L .. ? ~ ·· Till t h e 15th .,F'drrun ry 1945 •

.,• Wha. t h'lppenec~ then? . '" I o.skc<l scv, .r\l t i.:ac..s the l agcral tcs t or i;'"O rc..1ove mo froi.l the pr (;:3cnt on U").'ltion bccausu [ ,~i .l not consider ,.wsclf su:L t nl;l c f or

16.

I

. . ·- ..... ...... - ------··----- .... ..-..... .. . • · . 1 .• .

this ·,;ork, I ·i1us too . <-rvous , 1m c.l :iftcr ~ 'f~Yl dnys I \lent t o tlw ropport f uhrcrin '\IlLl she O.p)Ointc.11 1 •• c ns cn.1p police •

,• How lon~ hn.vc you been u l a.3cr p0lic0? ... 'fill 1st t inrch 1945.

-· \/hat ho.p~)encc1 nft or the 1st lio.rch 1945? : ... ;.t tha t my I ~:ot :.\Y b...:ating fro..1 Obcraufsehcrin Eltl.i.:rt. I v.i~ t o.ken t o the prison where I s t~yet'. t i ll 25th 1.0.rch 1 945. I l ert thu priovn t occ:thcr ·;fi th Fro.ncioh •

• • · /hon you l eft th.., b unker what happcneCI. t o you then? l· l ock Uo. 224 co; .. plctely exhD.us t l.cl 'tncl ill •

.~. I cru.ie '!.>a.ck t o

• • I will talk :t·.Jou t 224 a nd co i n t o i .oro details n'..iout tha t . Can you t ell tho court ·.1ha t ;no the b l ock staf'f \/hem you \/e r e. the bl ocknltcster of Ll ock 22fi.? ; •• Syns er, o.s n clerk, Purstcmber i::; u nd Guten.-.nn. I chose t he, . :.,ysclf'.

Tll.E r'iIBSIDENT : ~fua t ·;ras Furs tenl.>cr.~ md Guten.nn ' s oecu:::m. ti.on.

LT. J'.IIDRZEJOWICZ: Stuuend\.inat. 'l'lYlt uco.ns res'l')onsibl c f or the hut o r the ".Jlock. (To th(; ·.ii tness) How ,."a 1\Y intcrne;es ~~id you have ih b lock No. 224?

";,. 050 • .

•• Wha.t were you r es) onsi'i>l o for ns Ll ooknltcst0r? .\.. For ~rodes , f o r c'.istri~.mtion of .t'oo J. a nd f or . :.o.intt..ininc~ orclc:r in the Ll ock •

• • How often clid ~1ou have appc:ls? ;.. In bl ock 224 ther e r1erc no par ades a t the t i uc vthen T i1U.s there, only in bl ock 205.

~· 1fhy r1er e there no parodos i n 'bl ock 224? ;.. Dccause the :)crccnto.sc of sick peopl e rra.s v0ry hi~, a nd I o.skec! the lllt~crnl tester to stop those para.des ; there \ /Us no use 1 n kine; narodcs \lhen 50 p er cent woul d ;;o out C;.lld

50 per cent \/<)uld sfa~y in, a nu th-:. rapportfuhrcrin Gollusch a gr eed t o count the strenGth of the prisoners insitl.c the b lock •

• • ·,:rho. t were; your r-.:;ponsil.Jili tics in connoction ~·fi th r ood? f air distriuution or food.

.•• To s ecure

. • I coric no\1 t o the npccific allegations. I take first the affido.vi t of Hankn Ros enber 3, l~hibit 73; Volu:io 16 pa3e 27. Do you rcncuber Ho.nl<n Rosenberg saying tha t in hinrch, 19451 she s aw you chasing after a girl who h.a.d a sked for s one i:10rc s oup o.ncl th11 t you bcu t the girl ? ;.. I \las at tha. t ti.r.1e in pri son and, of course , I c.Juld not tlo it , o.nd apart fror.1 that speaki ll3 about the \'/hol e people, I vro.s alrooey oai:ip police and beine such I ha G. nothing to do \ti th food.

J• The next is the :1.fficlavit of Regi na Ili n l ok, Exhib it l(l; Volur.10 15 page 11. Parng,ra.ph three ~;~'..ys tha t while you \Afr o a ssista nt bl ock a l t es t cr of Dlook 27 you deprived t,10 wouen of the 1)lock of the ir proper share of wha t f ood the re was becausL you kept r:10r c f or yourself t h.a.n you wer e entitled to have .

... Th.a. t is not true because a t that t :L.1c, a s I s v.id a lreaey, I was not nn official stmendienst in the b l ock i.n<l thcr cf cme I could not do tmt; even if' I r."ler e a n official it vms f or bi J.len o.nd I vrould b e punished if I \ler e t o do so.

She goes on and sh1.- s ays th1 t when the wonen c::u.ie t o you a nd i.sked f or uor e ood you beat thes .. .'.1.cross the head a nd nll :_)arts of t he body ·;fi th o. vrooden stick? ;..,. I rr.v0 neve r boo.t e n i.eyl>ocy Ylith n s tick; I used only r:zy own belt because I s uf-,'er cd too uuch a :; u prisoner t o bca t prisoners.

Can you describe "to the Court whnt t his bel t l ooked like? A• I t \IUS o. very narrow bel t t ho.t Yrouen used t \) r1co.r on their dresses; nob r:ndd f rou l ca.ther but frou the s ruJc : '\nt uria l thLtt the d r ess is r.n cle of .

..-------

4 vnlat \13.S it nadc of? A. ·rt Yr.-ts o.n oilcloth belt '.tnd it i'l'll.S black. This belt is still in the mnda of tho Dritish police bcco.us v a t tho til'.lo I Yns o.rros t ed I randed it over.

In para.g raph f our Di o.l ek BOcs on a nd s[l.ys you rove been boo.tine v101.10n prisoners wi. th a wooden stick in the oor.tp v1hile there Yro.s o.n n ir- m id on?

A I had nothing to do \Ii th r.ninta:i.ning or der duri ng a ir-raids uecausc there wns a specia l order in the car~) f or these things .

,

The next de-position i3 trot of Ho.lin;! Furs t enber g, Exhibit 24; it i s in tho s l.'.:.10 volu:ie on page 33. In pam grnph three Furstenberg s a.ys thnt you Ylor e beating prisoners during a.p:.;iel s bcc=.usc they -;10uld not hurry enough or they Yt'Ould hurry t oo r.iuch bef ore the nppcl wo.s finished t o ge t buck into t he b l ock. Vlha t ca n you ""''lY to t h.a. t? ;.. I ho. vc t o ntlr.:i t tho. t I !)co. t sa.10 prisoners during p1..rn.dcs in Dl ock 205 1>Ut never in Dl ock 224, but even in Dl ock 205 I did it very seldo1:1. I shouted nor u than I beat .

., The s ar.ie v1a~1an suys on several oomsions you hn.vc a ll the woaen kno.al on .the ground siupl.y for spcnkine or so:::ethine of tha t na turc? i~ It ·:m.s onl.y one occasion during ny whol e stay in c9nccntru.tion cnr.1ps th.'lt I order ed o. wor.ian to kneel o.nd it wo.s ny O\'ltl stubemltcstcr , Gut ·cen .1aJUle

LT. JEDRZEJ O\lICZ : I Ylill ooue back to this i nci dent when I t a ke the deposition of Gutten ·.llln• t ut I loo.vc it now. (To the witness): The s ar.10 wo::nn s ays you ha ve beat en s ev.;r'1.l other wor.1en v1ho subsequentzy died rui.d thnt the boa tings oerta in'.cy contributed to c100. t h. ;.. That is an absurc.li ty to so.y so. I have not caus ~J. any hD.m Ylith l.\Y booti~ bcco.usc I cnd~cl t oo u uch T.\YSClf and I ha.cl t oo : .. uch heart f or t he "'>risoners.

•' " In parocrnph f our she says you ha v0 f orced a. wor.un 45 y ears ol d to kneel down on the ground f ur ha.lf a n hour, nn s. s. Vl'O;.:ian. caue a nd a sked why this WODan was kneeling '-n<l you so.i d : "She; uust lco.rn t o sto.n<! on a.ppcl" •

. ~ This inci dent took :rl ace but in quite n differ ent v1o.y frou t hnt described her e.

\/ho vns this old Vl'Ol.llln? A. This wor.lllll was l.\Y s tubcnaltcstcr, Gut ten .u\n.

• Then i n pa.mgruph s ix she goes on o.nd she says th.'t t there Yro.s a J ewess 30 yco.rs ol d s ick in the bl ock, she 1.li.ssed her f ood, a nd she went t o usk you f or the food and you beo.t her o.eni n and ago.in wi. th a l eather strop, t he \/OJ.'lnn r cr.:i.n.ined unconscious for a n hour a.ncl then kep t la.psing into unconsciousness a nd then the VIOr.lal'l di.1;..l uf'tor three or four days? 1~ • . That i s not true because tho victi.rJ of this incident is Koppel, the sane vlitness who oo.ao her e in the C,mrt to gi vc evidence.

(_~t 1310 hours tho Court i s closed.)

(.. t 1430 hours the Court is r e-op ened ,. )

(Tho a ccused arc o.go.in b:ro\l0ht before the Court. )

'

,,, - ---------~----c:.. __ _

Q Do you remember the witness Guterman? A . Yes .

Q You havo told the oourt before t ho · adj ournmont thot y ou have mado Gut crnan knoe l durinp, an aprol • . Can you toll the c ourt ho.·1 this incidont hopP.Omd? A. Gut.orman was uy assistant in tho bl ook , D.hd duriP~ my abscmco there was a distribution of jam in tho block . Gut e rman instead of r; ivi?¥,; jam to tho prisol'YJrs gave tl"Pm water, and vrhon I came back I r1ao that in my bloak t ho j am uas of v.._ r y poor quality. I v1nntod to unde rmi ne hor prostieo , thoroforc I ordorod her t o kneel.

Q ThJ wi tncss said .:.1~ aufsohorin c one on:l enquir ed v1hy Gutormon \/ao knooli.ng an:l you said sl:c Lo.d t o knoo l bocouso sho d id not knoY/ hcu t o st arrl during an oppcl, arrl you s nid: "I am g ivine or der horo and she is eoi~ to kneel". A. Yos , that is true. It was Ropportfuhrorin Gollosoh that hopponod to pass by at that time and sho onquircd why this woman \ las knoolim an:1 I told hor why, but, of course , I coul d not soy t o Rapportfuhrorin Goll.:rnoh that I am g ivine orde rs hero • bocoU5o I Yfas only a cog i n t ho machine on:1 tho rool masters v10ro tho Germans. Rapportf uhrorin Gollasoh hoarint; that told mo to dismiss tho woman from thoir funotion. The next day Gut erman booamo an ordinary prisoner on:l was transforrod to onoth0r blcok .

Q H"·' l one did she havo to knool ? A. I think about 20 minutes .

Q Tho witness goos on t o s oy boforo y'.')U mcd0 hor kneel you boot her with a bolt. A. That is not J r uo . I have novor booton her boo au.so s .00 \"103 a fUl'X)tionary in tho bl ook .

Q Do y ou r omombor anothe r il'YJidont Gutormon hos tol d the court about r1ith c minan oallod Fischor ? A. Yos , I do, mil I krux1 Fischer very woll.

Q Fisohor is ollogod to have boon f orced t o kmol daim bocAusc she did not eo t o wor k an:l tho explanation she govo was booa uso she hod not r:ot any shoos . Thon sho coos on and s ays r;ho eot hi gh favor. After throe wooks sho died . A. Fisohor is Gtill olive an:l she lives in Balson in block GB 13 ancl , apart fr om thot , all tho prisoners in Belson had shous arrl I nover f orced her t o knool .

Q Thon she p,oos on nnd sho g ives onotror incident concerning o sick i'olish wmrnan vrho sufforod fr crn S11ollon legs v1hom you forced t o attcn:l o parooo; you boat hor; she fointod; sho r1os f orced t o l ay da·m dur i~ t ho porado on tho gr oun:l; she was taken to h0spital, ond aftor throe dnys 3)10 died . ..... '.rhat is a lio . Firstly , because in block 105 woro only fit v10rkors . Thvro wore no woflk or il l women: oport from t hat I never forced onybcdy t o ~o on p arade bocouso I boro vtoll in mi rrl that at one time I Yins a prisoner and somc. timcs I asked to be excused o para:lo and I know vhat it meant not t o allcr.1 pooplo to stay i n tho blocks rtho nor o unable t o 30 out .

Q Cannot you r omombc.r an imidont liko this at t ho tine you wor e blook­altosto of block 224 ? , • Yes, I do. I roroomber this iroidcnt i n block nunbor 224.At about 2200 hours a women onllod Koppel c rone t o mo i n my r oom arrl domon:lod soup . She know quite r1cll thnt t he soup distribution t ook ploco at 1800 hours - - - - -

Q My question wos in oonnootion vri t h tho rroman with Sl·rollon legs which happened ot tho t i.mo rthon you wore blookaltosto of bl ock 224. J,.. No, not i n bl ock 224, not t ho iroidcnt with tho srrol lon logs , because nobody wos forood t o parade at all. Tho parades wore hold in tho blook .

Q Do you romombor t hu >1itnoss Syngor ? ,:., . Yes, sho '•7ns my c l er k .

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Q Do you rorrombcr Syn($c r tolli118 tho c ourt thnt ,·mile you wero bloolcoltosto you woro v e ry unjust in tho woy you rul0\·1ed o [;irl t o stny in n blook orrl not attorrl p arades . You olvmys ollowod hoolthy women t o stay nnd t ho siok v1oro forcC;d t o attend thorn. 4... Yos, I rer.1oooor he r soyil1{~ tlm t . ·

Q Is it true ? .... Thot is not truo, booouso os I mentioned beforo thoro v1orc no par oJes in block 224 dur ine t ho ti.mo I r7as bl ock al tosto thoro.

Q Did it happen t hen in blook 205 ? J. . I t c ould not happen also in 205 because al thoUBh J.ufsoherin Gol lasoh was vory bod sho r;avo us permission t o lonvo tho wc-»c arrl siok pa rsons i n tho block aril sr..e mode tho r oll oall parades i nsiile tho block .

Q And t ho girls ,.,ho \?Or o all right di <.l havo t o attend parades out s ide tho block ? 1. . Yos , it was on ardors fran Gollosoh that fit wanon hod t o par adc arrl the v1onlc stay in tho block .

Q Thon Syngor goes on n rrl says t horo \Ins n noman fr an Loipa ig v1hc hod swollen l ogs aril s he was f orood by you t o attorrl an appal, she f ainted , arrl you did not allcm hor t o GO into tho blcck, but finally you ogrocd to a c hair boing brought out and she c ould sit until t ho e nd of tho appal; but t he girl was t akon t o hospital om d i ed throe days l a ter.A. That is not t r ue boonuso thoro woro only five nomon fr om Lojp;ig thot c ame from my bl ock . Thay spont only ono night thoro and t hat v1as with ch ildr en. Tho noxt morning Blookfuhror Kasainitzky c amo t o my bl ock arrl or de red mo to transfer those women t o a spooiol blook f or children called t ho children block.

Q Synger says a l s o thnt you f orood on many occasions vrcrnon t o knool on par ades am that on many oocasicn::i you d i d not ollor1 tho sick women to stay in the bl ock . A. I have t o s tross once more that I have novor forood anybody t o a ttorrl a porode , because I kept i n mi rrl r1hnt it meant t o bo forced to ottond pnrodcs when one is ill, boco.uso I r1as a prisoner myself. Sorootimcs I f eel boum t o forbid a pris oner i n my bl ock t o do things that vroro prhhibi tod boco.uso I was afraid that t hat v.rould bril'l[J harm t o all tho irtnatos of t hnt bl ock.

Q SyJ18C;r was askC;J i f you d i d distr i bute food f nirly and she soicl t hat it v aried . A• I had t o socuro a f oir distribution of f ood beca use v10 v10ro unrJor the c ontrol of tho l agor al tosto all tho ti.mo . It Yins n va r y importo.nt poi nt .

Q Do you roroombor Koppel ? A. Yos , I do .

Q Sho s ays thot you have bonton her ono nie ht ·11hon she ca r1c am asked you for f ocxl which si1c had missed tlu•ough boine in hosp i t ol ? ... S he omno t o my r oan at about 2200 hours Ond de1. u.u~1 od s oup . I t ol d hor that os sho know vory woll tLo d istribution of soup t ook place at 1800 hours , thoro­f or o as thore wo re 850 prisonors i n tho bl ock, r10 v1or o unablo to ro1~mbor all t he pooplo ,;ho d i d not otto~ t ho d istribution. I promised t o g ivo hor a double ration the next day, but she bohnvod very 8£",Rrossively arrl thor o­foro I had t o resort t o bo ati~, but I used F.ty bolt.

Q Sha c ocs on and says thnt tho vrholo nip,ht she Has uroonsc i ous and ·while sho v1as uroonsc i ous s ho was oryi ne : "Help mo , hol p me; my hoert, my honrt , my heart" • • ~ . If anybcxly is unconsc i ous ho is unnbl c t o a sk f or holp nrrl ho is unable t o s ay that ho has eot honrt aches or anything l ike t hnt . I was t ol d the noxt day t hat sho r oolly f ainted but she f a intod f or qui to a d ifferent r eason.

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Q ';That was the ron.son you worv told thot sho hod f a inted ? ... ,·.s I wos t old tho whole i:ooidont took p l o.oo d urine on air- raid and Y1hon she loft my room and she Olllro t o hor own r oom, I think ospociolly t o couso troublo for mo, she put the light on an:1 tho ~uard outside shot in tho dirootion of t he block. It v1as roo.l.ly only g root luck thot ho did not shoot · J

in any of th::> r oom, but in tho bath- houao in tho block .

Q Tho witmss goes on and then soys thot you , duriru on appel, hav e boaton a girl who uantod to go t o tho t oil.at, and that finally tr..c '1oman died . What do you say to that ? A. I havo never boaton anybody with a stick. If I ovor boat anybcdy I did it vii th my bolt as I t ol d you boforo .

WiJOR \TINTIOOD: No qoosti•:ms .

Cross- oxaminod bv :U~J0:;1 J.a.JNRO

Q Vlhon \"/Oro you arrested by ~ho British authorities ? A. 8t h J une at 1600 hours .

Q Do you romombor r:iaking a stl\tomont which \W.s road i n c ourt ? J.. I do.

Q Was that otatom~nt d atod 26t h June ? A. I am not sure , but I suppose so,

Q How l ong was it boforo you sir,rod that statornont thot you hod your t'il.•st interview Wit h the imcstigotion toam ? A. 1\·10 or throe d ays .

Q \/as it bofore or after you wore arrested ? lu •iftor.

Q I will romim you thot you oro on oath nnd I repeat my question . Ylos it bvforo or cftur you v1oro arrostod ? i'... I was nrrostod on tho 8th Juno ond r.fte r t h D.t I ;·;cs collod to tho offico ru1C1 I hnd tho imosti.:~ntion • •

Q Whon you Ylorc askccl into tho off ioo what was said to you ? J'-• It n aa not any canmiss ion; it ,·,as a British c apta in aocorrq:>aniod by anothor lioutonMt who spoke GorrllD.11.

Q \7ill you nl'lSYror my question ? \7Lun you \"/oro oallod into tro offioo v1hnt was s aid to you ? n . It was not in t ho office . They oamo to my r oom.

COL. WKH>USE: She said she was not oolled into a r oom, but they ooroo t o soo her .

MAJOR MUNRO: When you woro first intervionod v1he.t ,·1as s a id to you ? A, Thoy oskod mo hc:wt lorr~ I stoyod in ii.uschwitz ond in whioh camps I vios before an::1 of' tor.

Q 1..nd after that ? wore in tho oamp.

Thon I was uskod whether I knew nny SS pcoplo who

Q Did youkur nt t .00 time you had boon ooausod yourself ? .. . Certainly I kriJVt .

Q \7hy did not you doforrl yourself i n y our statcrwnt ? .i.. . Because the c cp ­tain t ol d me thot I d id not neod t o speak about myself , t hot I s h.'\ll bo brought befor e ~ f air trial an:1 I s hall be e ivcn tho opportunit y of soyine ove rything I kna:; , but at t hat ti.re t hoy only 11antcd t o knCT1'1 v.bout t ho SS porsormol.

Q Thon you accused sor.10 of t ho SS di d not you ? .. . I did not nccuse them. I s a id only t ho truth,

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Q Is not it tho oaso that you only modo tho so .:iccusations in order t o try am help yoursel f ? A. Nothine of that kind.

Q Do you kncm about tho reputation you hod os on informor ? A. Yos, I do kncw1 that I was an informor in tho OaJl!'> .

THE Jt.JOO.E AINOC,.TE: Ic that what sho said ?

THE INTERPRETER: Yo~ .

THE PRBSID~: She actually said: "I do kna;1 that I was an informer in tho oamp" did she ?

THE INTERPRETER: Yos - she soid: "I \fas an infornpr" and non she says: ":Sut I nas infor ming only tho truth" .

Mi.JOR MUNRO: Is not it true that you wore the boare1• of false inf'on11otion? \ .... Novor.

Q Do you kna.1 the dcfonont HD.lino Furotonberc ? .. . Yes, she \/as my stuben:lienst •

~ lhvo you road her .:.f f' idovit ? J.l e Yos .

Q Do you rcr,1Unbor he;r sayine that you hod e iven information to tho SS that s ome people \·1c ro i n possossion of jowollory ovon though· ·.1.cy wore not ? .A . That is not truo .

Q You have t ol d us that you wont into hospital after you had rooc ivod a boatine; is that rlaht ? lu That is not truo . HD.vo r.ovor boen in hospital .

Q Is it truo that youwero put into prison aftor rcooivil'l['; a boating? .... Yos, by tm pol itical dopartnxmt .

Q Thot \'/os after other prisomrs had boaton you, Yras not it ? J... During my stny in oomontr·rtion 08JTU'S it nc.vo r happened to mo that I WaJ3 boaton by a prisorer from tl.c camp. It hap;_)()ncd only oroe when I v1as in a punishment kanmand ') .

Q Do you roroombor whot Halina Furstenber g said ? A. Yos .

Q Do you remember that sho soid sho nno t ol d thot blookal tostos hod beaten you and that they had beaten you booouso you had e iven f ol so information ? A. That is not true . I have not boon beaten by any blockoltostos .

Q Do' you remomb.Jr Rog ina Bialok' s statomont ? J. . Yes , I know her very \'tell .

Q Do you remember thnt she s ai d otile r prisomrs sot about you ? '" • Yes .

Q Ylas tret true ? ·-· No . There was not ono prisoner uho bont mo nt Bel son ..

Q I put it t o you t hat you wcro i n f act 3ot upon by otror prisoners ? ; ... That is not true.

Q An J thot you y:cr c sot upon because you have t.;ivon false infor mation obout thorn ? .n.. Tl.at b not true .

Q I olso put it t o y--u that i t nas a fav ourite habit of yours ? ,.. I am vury cager to knou hcr.7 ~·.0 offiocr from t ho doi'om o c ould kruw such thil1£;s .

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Q l.rrl I put it to you that your \"lholo stDtonont is n pack of lios fr om ba8innil18 t o end ? ~\. Unfor tunatoly rny qvidonoe is only the truth, but it is not tho vrhole truth. If I hocl to toll ovorythi rlG thot I hocl to errlure I should have t o write it down for months o.nd m:mths .

Cross- oxwninod by lf,~Joa CR.".NFIELD

Q ~·/era you in the punishmmt korrmondo ot ,·.u.sohv1itz for two yoors ? '• · l.lmost iA"lo yoars.

Q Did that very sovoro punishment havo an offcct on your health ? Yos , v ery much so .

Q .Do you find novr that you suffer frcr.1 hoatlachcs ? ~i . I am suffering not from hoadachos but from o bloodor disoaso o.nd I am urrler t l:o observotion of the ::;:3r itish doctor .

Q Do you firrl now that you havo d ifficulty in slcopin[; ? 1. . Yes, that is truo.

Q Ylhon d id y ou last havo a night ' s oleop ? A. I do not rcrnrrhor .

Q You have tol d us you remornbor tho stotomont whioh you modo . Do you romorrbc r sooirr~ tho offioor to vrhan you node tho staton-ont he ro in court ? A. It \"las Capt ain Fox ond soma oth.:r lioutonant , arrl it v1as a maj or •1ho was in th i s o ourt.

Q Did you sign one statement or moro t han one ? A. Only ono • .

Q Have you got a ocrpy of it in front of you ? A . Yes .

Q Look at paragraph 2 of' your statement .

LT. JED~OitIOZ: She has not got it . Sho hos only got the translation of tro affidavit ~ainst her .

lf/iJOR CRi.NFIELD: I n t hat statement you describe an imident about tho accused Grose, and you say: l!I first knon Grose in Ravcnsbrook in 1941 " . ,·.. Yes.

Q You have hoard Grose in tho \1itnoss box say that she di d not go to Ravensbruck until tho sumncr of 1942. Do you say that is untrue ? A. That is not true .

Q You still maintain thot Grose oamo to Ravonsbrook in 1941, do you ? A. Certainly; I 1o . I know all tho aufsohorin from Rnvonsbrook ,

Q Thon you s ay thot Y1hon Groso ca.mo to 4'-uson11itz she Has a blookloadcr . ·;;hich camp was t i lt ? A. It Hos in oonq:> iL arrl in camp D.

Q -:Thi.oh block nas it ? 4'.. . Sha oarriod out her parades fr om all tho

blocks.

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Th1,,n you s o.y Grcso was in char ge of a punisrr.1cnt cor.1pa ey fro: ,·.usch'Wi t z fra: J 1942 to 1944. Do you still s o.y that that i s not t rue ? ;. She wo.s f or esve.n ocaths the l eader of the kor.ir:innclo s. K. 6 tlm t i s st..ru.f tikot.1'.i..'1.nuo, punishl.1ent !<:or.ii:m.ndo.

£4 No·;1 s even ;.~onths i s not the sru.10 thine ns two Y°'-'U'St Do you still say thu t Grose vm.s in charee of tha punishi.icnt. ~or:ipany at J~usdlwitz fro;.1 1942 to 1944. ? A Yes , I do.

'.lh1 t is the ili.f ft:;rcncc between the punishi.:<..nt CODp<l.l'\Y a nt! th<.. k.ou.nntlo S. K. ?

THE INTERPRETER: TL-.1t is the sru.ic thi?l8• SU:.1ee

M ... JOR CRANFIELD: Just a sk her the questi on.

·./hen I t.ronshto it i t vlill bo tho

COLONEL Ih'.CKHOUSE : Well, it is the saac words for both.

lL .• JOR CR:.NFIELD: Is it the sarlo word tho. t she has used ?

'l'HE INTERI'&l'ER : Yes.

W.JOH CR.'.fil' IELD (:ro the Ylitncss): I SUJ.k,;<.:st t o you that Grose did not oor.10 t o Ro. vcnshruck until the su;:ucr of 1942, o.nd clid not ca·.10 to l.uschvli tz until Ha rch, 1943 ? 1.. .lnd I still 1.11:'.intuin that I rcuember Grose fron ilo.vcnshruck fror.1 1940, when she wus vra.lldng ,.Ii th her ric.line whi p n nc.'I. c'lrriv <.l out p a ro.dos in the front of block No. 10.

• And I suggest to you that at tho t:iJ1c y ou ::my she vm.s a blocklco.dcr in cn.r.1p "J." nntl ~'\r.lp "D", she was in f act on t elephone duty in the b l oekfuhrerstube ? A In Ausch·,·ii tz no f 61:ial e personnel were ci.1ployed on tel ephone duties , only ... a.l e personnel. For ins U1nce, KAsaini tzky, \7e:iJ13artncr, Rho. tus a nd liorschcl.

Do you rc:.lcubcr the inciU.Cnt in the sa.11d pit vlhich you described in your s ta tcr.1cnt ? IL I rcr.1e:r.iber it very v1 ... 11.

' J \'nwrc ·:ro.s th0 sa.nd pit ? A It \/US nbout six kilcnct rcs frou .''i.uschvd.tz eOI.lp in the: direction to 13uc.lin.

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Vfas it on the ri vcr ? J. There; W<..r 0 so1.1e s ta[9lru1t v1a tors in the vicinity an<."'. we were diggins a dn;:'le

\Ins the kom.·.m.na.o c · . lled the Vis tulll. kor.uo.ndo ? trucks.

A No.

Do you say there \·r· ,r e 700 to 800 -.1oi.1cn in t his kom..w.ndo ? we hud 70 lorries to push.

\fc were pushine

1~ Y c s , been.use

{ ~ Is till.'. t not o. very lo.r ec nur.1bcr f or one ko1.11.utndo ? A It ·N!ls no t too i:-10.ey because s oD0 of us red t o dig the sand, the o ther to oven the ,~round, :me! the o t her aca.in to push the lorry.

4 Do you say tr.at Grcse wn.s in chc.r~e of this ko1;I.lo.ndo f'or seven i.10nths ? 1. Grose vm.s korr."l.nclo fuhrerin a nd Her schell \/Us stunJa.rbeitsdi<;nst.

'.s Hovi Ull'\Y a uf'sehcrin did Grose ll:w0 t o hel p her ? A There -..ras only on~ o.uf'schcrin, Grcse, there \TclS a senior l~po, orQ.mry knpos , forevA)l:lC:n a nd a.bout 30 guards .

Ia it ·not true t h:i t in the case of kol.t.nndos of 100 or 150 there were a l veys b;ro nufs ehcrin.? A That is not true.

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In your statc .. 1cnt you describe hon Y/Oi.\Cn \lor e shot b.cco.usc they l:i cl not understand the chall c.;ngo of the gua.rtla. Is not the challcnec of o. G<Jn.10.n [,!\lard "Halt" ?

• ·,'/hen c. Gen:an ('.,ua.rd hul ts a prisoner h0 vill also cover h er with his rifle 1 will he not ?

A Y cs 1 he A.i!Js a t h t:r " i th his rifl e .

,~re you sU[:;(Scstin~ t ha t even a ? olish \"/01.ian, a n i n:iate of auschYr.i.tz , voulll not understancl vihcn a Gen .ian etmrd sa.icl "Ho.lt" 1 a.nd cover ecl her vr.i.th his rifle 1 tha t she ·:on t o stop ? ,·i.. Everybody ·.ioul~~ un,:.c..rstand that "Halt" d eans to stop , especially a Polish nor..an. Pcr ha.ps ;... : •rcnch ·;/Or.ion or o. Dcl gian ·.;t>rnm v.ould not w1C.c;rstand that, but every :?olish vioi..1an '. roul<.1.

, \fha t na. tiomli ty ·;;ere the wouen in this koo..ianc!o ? A French, (;reek, i30l 3ian, Pol ish a.nll Russio.n nationality.

... ;.re you suggcs tind; that o.ey of those ·;rouen, if' they vere tol a t o halt .::me: wcr0 covered by the rifle of a Gon ian [SUllrd, \'foul cl not unclcrs t o.nd they had to stop ?

A Yes , that is tru(.; , but these [JUt1rcls <.:.ic.l not challenge us ; they shot nt once unless they nere Slovaks or ?olos Volksdoutschc.

Do you r c .. 1<:;;.lbcr the enquiry which you describe in your sta t cuent ? •i.. Yes, I c1o. I ro •.• c.1Jber cverythin,z very Ylcll.

Di<.l that tako place in the political <1.vpo.rtncnt a. t ,·i..usch'<r.i. t z No. 1 ? i·i.. Yes. I t ·m.s not only =-.lYscl f' t rot •/US present there, but another four wouen. I vm.s the only one that \las qucs tionod.

<j Was Grcse there ? •i.. No.

\/ho \/O.S the accuseJ. ? a t t he girl.

A The accused rr.:i.s the guard who r efused t o fire

~ Wa.s he an S. S. L10.n ? ,L It wo.s o.n :::;. s. r.nn of Slovakian descent .

~ ·,/ho vras t he senior officer present ? A onl,y N. C. Os. There; -.m.s an Unturscharfuhrcr;

Ther e ·•rer e not officers present , I do not kncm his :rwJe.

'4 Who uo.dc the a ccuso. t i .)n a3ains t the s. s. r.ian a t the enquiry ? •L Grose •

.1 You and four other f u: n l e prisoners '•10re pr esent, were you ? A No , it VIO.s myself 'la<.1. t hre0 o ther \/01.1en. I ,ro.s the onl,y one th:.l t was quos tioncd.

'>I ·rrho.t I \ra.nt t o knoY1 i..; rrcr o the othur three wa.icz:i prison er s ? A Yes .

Tho S. s. i..nn uas brorj1t in h.<::.ndcuffcd, ' in.s he not ? ,~ Yes •

.1~n<l t110 next day h<:: ·:r-..s bo.ck on duty ? n!>sc..nt. A Yes, he wa s , but Grose \70.S

l~ro you askinJ the Court t o believe t ho.t .:in uuf'scherin could have o.n s. s . . :urn chc.rged, o.nd the s. s. r..<:i.n b e bro~t in hnn<lcuf'fed in t he presence of f our :i'e .. ial c prisoners '?

;,: Yes , it was quite p0~siblc , because he vm.s not a r eal s. s., he was of Slovuki-1n descent.

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You say tho. t on this workin.s party 30 prison.c.rs o. dny \/ere killed. If tho. t were so , do y• ·u not t hink it 'IJOulc:!. be !mown in the cuap ? i~ Yes , everybocy kncv1 o.'Jout i t , o.n<l Grcse Gjoi" tho Kreis-~~.

You say in your statcr.!ent tha t you vrote a letter to the son of one of the prisoners rlho v1a s killed in this vrny ? A I Yll'Otc to uy son, not to her son. I wrote hiu that this ~UD.n, \those ll:ll.1c is Gut err.1!!.n, a ~ :o.s t or of .L:l.ws frou Crocow, \Ja.S .killed.

Do you k.rio\/ tl'in. t in your s ta t c..1cnt the wo1.lrul 1 s nru.ic is gi vcn a s C.utcrwoiaa, Uld i t says that you \,"rOtc t o he r son ? ;~ I could not v1ritc: to her s on , I did not knon her a d.dress, but I think it i s n .. iis bke in printing.

I s~est t o you tha. t this story is untrue f rou "!Jc[;innino to end a nd \fO.S

invented Ly you ? A I swore to sn.y the truth nnd I au tcllinc only the truth. Even in t he hardest <lays of uy life I rove neve r resorted to lios bcco.usc I resent lying.

And I suggest t o yuu that the reason you no\/ so.y the wooa.n ' s nru.1e nuis GutenJan i s because. you cannot re.1cr.'i:>cr tho dctuils of the story you concocted last June ? A Unfortuna. tcly I r c1.1er.ibcr it &o \ /1.;ll o.s I 1010\1 thlt t one a nd one i s tvro.

THE JUrG.E ./'..DVCX::::~TE : ·.1ould you ask her to tellus o.eain who this wor:ian vro.s ?

liAJOR C&\NFIELD: v.bo do you say t his \fODAn Gutcn m n \las ? A Dachelor of Ln.ws under the Polish 1Ar1.

Do you re1·.1eDber th·~ a ccused Ehlert clescrib in3 to the Court .. hat ho.ppcnc..d \lhen you were bea t 1.:n by the other prisoners ? ,~ Yes , I <lo.

,J I nr.1 eoi nz to rcn.d you a part of' it. (Transcri pt 25, po.go 5) . She s o.ys "Kopper car.1e int o :.\Y office ant1 S'l.i d tha.t she had been Ylorki?l[~ a lready bc:fore in the Gcs t ::..po a ncl that she \M.s o. ve ry .0)od agent a nd a eood spy" . La t cr on she says: "She broueht ac the n.."U.10 and nu::mer of one. a nd J.A t or of the s econd .:i.nd. htcr of' the third; three peopl e , but she :i.nplorod r.10

not to t ell anybody u'.Jout t he services · lhieh she ·.w .. s r enderint.; no" - tha.t i s Ehlert - "because otherwise she vould ha vc t o suffer".. l ..f t eI'\10.r<ls., Rhlert s o.ys that the clerks in her off'i cc sn :i.<.1 t o her: "'de know ther e is only one rio1.nn who could ho.vc t ol cl you about such a thing a nd that is Kopper" , and when she asked t her.1 why they so.icl: "Oh, we have knorm !>efor e f'rou Auschvrltz. She has :.mde the life very :.liscr able f or uany peopl~ there by her spyine on t he other s ". That is true, i s it not ? A I a dr.d t that I vtas a spy, but you should t ry to f ind out wha t kind of' a spy.

·J You :Jpent a ll your t :inc in the co·ncentro.. tion e ru.1ps rcportine your fellow prisoners to the G ... rr.lans , did you not ?

A It r1as not oy onl_y job , but \/hen I aaw tmt a Gerr:ian prisoner Ytoulcl exploit the other prisoners in t he c'.l..~p by stealing f ood, by l!Jllillg this f'ood a nd by to.kir13 other udvanta3cs , I t houc;ht it just t o go t o the Gcr:-.\9.n authorities and. t o tell about it, ~nc... then this •. lan would disappear , he would be sent t o a pwti.sluvnt kor.ua ndo.

26.

t

1::; J~nd your sta t c<:ient to the Dritish is three paeos f'ulJ. of i>cousa.tions a.[;llinst

your fellow offi cials in the concentra tion cru.?p , is it not ?

A They vrerc only Ccn.'lans. I uceuscd only Gcnian ::i. s. u nd. G-er..nn

prisoners with black triangles and t,;rcen tria.~les.

•-J You a ccused or.J._y Gen .o..ns , did you, irrespective of the truth ?

..\ No. ',/hcnever I .J'J.\'I tha.t :L'olish -.10:·.lon or o. JC\7i.sh vro:.m.n 'if.'.l.s sten.l~.ll£S

• footl fror.1 the other prisoners , I considcrcQ it u.y duty to report it t o the

Gen.'IO.n o.uthorities.

I :u.1 t a lkin,_; :ibout your s ta te1.1ent. In tlmt you o.ecused only Gen.urns ,

lid you ?

n I a ccused only nnJ. exclusive~ S. S.

There is nothi113 in your sfatci.1cnt in your onn defence ?

A I do not unc:.er s t:lncl.

Have you 3ot two chiL.:.rcn in Pol..'.lnd ?

A Yes, in era.cow.

(i Do you vmnt t o get :.ack to thu.1 ?

A Cer tainly I \7a.nt ti . ect back t o thi .. ~i.le

27~

,'

I

CJ• I sugt!est t o you that when tho British crone to Bels en you th:nlght tha t j f you accused oll t he Ge mans in t he camp you would curry f avour r:i th the British. A. I did not think that , bcco.usc I never tried t o save :-•\)'solf at the cos t of the other p cople, I sl\id only tha t they ruined the livos of thousands of people a nd ;or brm life too~

~. ,·.nd I sugges t to you that thv.t is u nolicy you have followed all your life , h. That is not t rue,

r . Now just ansv/Cr t hi..; question "Y1.m 11 or "No. " Have you a t a ey ti.me been r. professor of music? L. I suppose.: the defending officer had op,)ortunity to find out that I wu:.;.

Cross- cxru:-,ined by c,.pr. ROBEl?I'S.

'°'• You told us t hat v1hcn you c ane out of t ho bunker on the 25th March 1945 you wor e conpletc1-.v .... :maustod and i l l? ..• Yes,

{} . \'/hp,t did you thc:n <.:o? il . I cru:~o bnck t o ":!'Y block and ny pr evious cl er k ~nd stubendienst tried t o hel p MC as well e.s they could , ·

~. Did you get bvtt0r? A, Ycs .

" · · .. 'hen wore y ou well t:.13a.in? J.. It was not r cc.lly that I vro.s v0ry ill nt that ti•1e when I c ru;c f :'.'0;i th.J bunker, it was only tha t I wns a l:·1ost s t l:'.rvo d t o death, bec ause I r occivod in this bunln .. r ov ..,ry t hird dny o. half litre of vro.ter nnd t". sr:lo.11 pi0c0 of' b r co.d,

rJ• So \then you c an e 1.~ck to block 224 you got c,1oueh food to help you build up your strengt h ~cain? A, Yc..s, I hnd n fri ond who ht,;l pcd r1e,

<: . ',Vore you still c arrying on your duties ~s c a."'.lp polico·,roman? J •• No, fror.i t he ti:·1c I l (.ft the: bunker to tho C'.rrivnl of the British troops I rms c.n ordi nnry pri$oncr ,

r.. ·1hc.t did you spend your tir.10 doing no\/ t hnt you ht'.cl no 101ucr ::;ot ".ny off'ici~.l dutic.:s? '-• I hcl p ud wit h c..vcrydcy duties in the block; I ·;1 .... nt t o fe tch f o'.)d fr()~ th~ c ookhouse ;:iys~lf.

·~ . You t ::>l d us t hn.t block No. 205 \lhich y :>u wcr<.. i;1 ·_e f'o r c ·11as c bl o ck f or fit \/-:>:"ten ; i s thv.t right? 1.. Ye~.

•: . . " .. s n~t t hct in f nc t the ~'~~.t \,rni t.\' . · .. rd? '·• I..J? , the r.1ctc.rni ty bl~Jck Y/:'.S

the so- c t>.l led stul'!':ll o.gcr , · nc1 b l 0cl: 205 Ytc.s !'. b l 0ck for workir.g pc.rtics.

c,.PT. ROBERTS: I n..~ [pi n[.; ~n t .> No, 16 no\:, (Kc.rl Fruncioh) (To tho witnos!j ) H..)w f ::;r is i t f ro!! (;ookhousc No . 3 t 0 t l ock 224? 1 . • Like fr'.)!'~ ::iy p l uc 1, to the pl::i.cc wher e :;he p r osecuting <' mnscl sits, I noun tho C..)okhouso tbnt wl'.s opposite t o bl ) ()Jc 224.

( Thi:.t wc.s the part ~ 1 the cookhou s<... \/Lich r.rc.s furth.::st fron tho c r..np ontrt.ncc. ,·ms not it? Yes , it vies the further one.

' , • Do you re:-:i.:.nb<...r t h.., other hr lf of the cookhousc which w<.s close:r to the :i." in cntr{·nc c ? -·· Y.::s .

..... . How f::.r wc.s tht' t f'r 1r • b l ock 224? '· • Tnicc r.s :.1uch.

Th.._t would be c.bout "0 :".ctr es? .. . ; .bout 25 t o 30.

~ . I put it t o you t~~ t i.;1 fa ct tho.t distuncv Wf'.s not 20 or .30 :-1ctr .... s ::>ut it r1c-.s 200 o r .30() : .-: tr._,s, ,. . Do you ::l;c.n t hc cookhous..; t ho.t , .. ~.s si tur.t.::d opposi t .e t c b l ock 224?

( , N'o, I L'i s till1 r e f vr r i n· to the hc lf n" l'.r cst t o t he. :".c.in ['.~tc . .Yl'.r ds v hs fro:":'!'_::~ b1. 1ck to cookhouoc T·'o , 4.

J . 300

r . I still~\1c.nt you t '.:' .,hiilk nbout thr.t h".l f of cookhousc i!o. 3 which •.n s ne:~.rost .~ ':· 28. ' . ..

- ·r

to t he ,. c.in ga t e. Could you sec thnt c ookhousc fro::i b l ock 224? I could soc both ~rts of the cookhous c t hrOU[!h the window.

li. Yc..- s ,

'"}. So when you sny in your s t nto::lcnt: "I s nv1 Flrnzich shooting rvpcntcdl y o.t t ho internees, !'1.'.'.ny of who., foll down l'.nd were flu ng on to the hc.:::>.p" you sa.w nll t hat fro!".1 your bl ock, did you? A. }'r nncioh wns shooti ng r"'r o::1 thnt pa.rt 0f t he cookho:.isc thnt wns exactly opposi te t o 224, end I t ook th:--.t vro;;:i.n ~-\YSOlf t o t h-: hospi t o.l.

': · I an not r c f crri r1{1 to .-.::t.y ci rl , e nd will you a nswer t hi s question? i • • Ye s , b ec aus e I hc.d c. r o o:':l \ r.i. t h n. window t o t hl'.t ~e.rt vrhero t he ki tchcn \1as, nnd I s n.w hi~ s t anding ·:1 t '.1c s t eps in front o :i.' the cookhouse nnd shoot i ne i 1 r.li scri::iinc~tc.

'- · On t he ste~s o f wLieh pnr t of t he CO')khous c di d you sc..c hi ;-. stc.n<J? .•• It wus C'.t this pe.rt o:i.' the cookhousc wh:i ch Wt'.s s i tuct ed f'urthor fro:1 the cntrl'c;1cc t o t he cl'np, jus t opposi tc t o ·-y bl ock .

~ . You c~ulcl sec:. t he v11tr~ncc to that cookhousc fror~ your bl ock, c ould .v.:>u? J. . Dvcn i f I wore very sh.)rt si r;ht ed I could s ec i t .

~ . I put it t o you t hf.'.t in f n.c t you c ould s ec nci t hcr o f t he cntr.-.nc.;s t o ci th" r cookhousc: f 'r:-i::i b l ock 224 , o.nd you nev0r s ox1 Fro.nci oh shooti ne r vpcnt odly nt t ho intrJr noos. 1.. Goocl Br ncious, how rn..1.ny ti·.:.;s I he.Ve.: t o r upcc.t it. Ho c1i d not shoot r e;al ly, he \/US ::md ; he \Vi'.s shooting l'.nd di d no t know \/hat wf'.s r,: 1i nc on - a ll thv t~ 1c l'(;pco.t odly, like in {\ tr;-.nco.

~ . ~.'ns it us ua l f'o r p r v ·nL'.nt woi1cn t o 1n r..nd collect f ood fro;.1 tho c ookhousc? ' •• It wns not u nor:;r.l oc currence in .1 ru c;n.r·tp, but t hl'.t vms jus t bef or e t ho

British troop s nrri·Je;d E'.nd t h e c r...""lp \l".S in r. stc.i:o of' co!:lpl ct c chl\os, c.nd the S . S. !'.1cn \/.:.re :-hootine :-.11 t he.. ti.n o with a BUn without any r vnson.

~. ".'hcr c r.bouts ·.vns t hif heP.p of c orps<.::; nhich you t c.l k cbout which Y.ir'. s supposed t o bo nonr t L_ cookhousc.? l . . I t is r u\l l y gr oss ly cxne,Ber nt <.d t o !JD.y it w::-.s n hcl'.p of bodi. .. s . I s~ i d only t hr.t !.~ore t hnn t en ::-.en wor e sho t hy :i!'r l'.ncioh, l'.nd I sc.\ : it !'YSt-lf.

~ . I \!ill just rc..·~d t his out t o you: "I s nvr :b'lro.zich shooti1y~ re--pc~ .. t 0dl y ~t tl1c i 11t cr nccs , ~~C .. !ljr af' v1hon fell dovm ~.nd vier~ flung on t o ::-. hcr-.. p . 11 !J.. Yes , thr.t i s t he- truth.

"}. .:ill you now t oll vy whorcabout s t Mis hcl\p of corpses ·;ms? J.. I t wc.s :.-.bout 10 or 15 y:-.rds i'r o. '. this p o.rt o f t hi.. cookhousc which wns oppos ite to block 224.

: . J.nd VJO.s i t jus t out ei dc t 11c door o f t ho cookhouso, 15 !'~ctrcs f r o:-1 t he <loor . '·• It Wf'.S 15 y nrds fro~ '. t hc.t i)oint fro!"1 whi ch Fr c.11cioh vrc.s shoot ing fron t hose

s t eps I ;1~ntioncc1 b..:f or o.

': · J,nd t he s t ep s M el. tilis c.oor fr.coc the ot he r holf of t he co :.>khouso; i s th".t riEht? 1 .• No, t i ~ . ..;c s tops we ro f l'.ci nr, . iy block, t h e; windo\/ of -:iy roo::l.

'~· \l:·p. t his heu-p of corr3 cs .:-.h 1c.ys thur o? 1.. I do not '.Uldcr stnnd t ho qu 1..s tion.

'"!• You ,ius t tol e!. . ~c tl1c~·c wr.s c. hor-..p of corpses 15 ·ct r c:. s f r on the cookh.:>us o s t v?S• Di.d it t'.l vr JS r c·i..--.1 n t hi.. rc - thnt hc0.p? ; .• No , t hc..y •1cr c t ::-kcn t o t he.. ;~ortu<'.ry v a r y ::; ~n c.fter .

,... • I put it t o you th~'t tho whole of t hc:.;c nc cusntions whi c h you ;:r.kc r-.·:d nst Fr r.nci ".>h r.ro untrue. , r'.nc1 y ou h::wo onl y :- '..n.dc t hen bcc nuse: Fr .:-.ncioh ·:roulcl not 3i v c y JU c.xtrc. f ooC.:. ; -11on you -.1c.n t l'nd nsked h i!: f or i t . i.. I hr.vc nev er uskod Fr rJ1cioh f or ~,_y food c.nd I ;:;nid only t ho trut h . He hi: 'si.. l f kno\/S v ery ·:1011 th c.t I sc.i d t he truth.

Ci.Pl' . PI ELDEll: Il.:- j or Iil'Y.'111 hr.s no qu e::; t ions. I hi:-.v c so:-:e questions on ' )ch:-lf o f ~ro . 23, Otto .

29.

Cross- cx.?.r:iined by Cl.PT. FIELDEN.

12. ',/ho vr..s the block~l tester of block No. 201 when you a rrived o.t Dolsen? 1 .• L Slovakfr.n Jewess .

\. • ~ y ou know who t he next blocko.ltester rro.s? wor.tnn, l.ldonn Pictrkicwicz.

J.. After her it wo.s c.. Polish

( . Did you hea.r t ho.t either of those two blockaltcstcr s hod ever bcc;.1 bcl'.tcn?

J •• I know t hat t his Slov :-Jci{'.n J (:wcss w.~-:;. bo...nt en vory scv eroly l'JKl ns a rvsult

of it she hll.d v. broker. rib .

: . ·:fuon ,.ro .. s thc.t? :. . I shoul d think it wt'.s {':t. the beginning of J t'nuf'.ry,

i:~cdio.tcly cfter I o.rrivcd in Belson.

THE Jt.JroE .. ·.nvoC/.TE: Who.t date did she c ivc f or t ho.t?

C.i..PT. FIELDEN: The bcel.nninF~ o f Jnnunry, soon l'.ft cr she arrived nt Belson.

(To the vri. tncss) :Jr1 you knovr who hov.t this Czech J ewess?

i. . Hnuptstur.:ischc.ri\.thr ... :::- I.ti tz or Kitz, but I know hi.'i v ery well; I c annot

ckscri be ho·;r he l ookt.d.

Q. Do y ou know if :my othvr bl ockr-.1 tester ')f block 201 vms beaten? i •• no.

'".• If c.ey other b l ockc.l t l;ste;r hr.cl b<.cn l,cc.t on would you hnvc heard of it?

J. . Tho v1hol c c i-.:.1p would know r.bout i t.

':, . Do you know the o.ccusccl Ott o , No . 23? 1 •• Yes, I know hi."':l v <.,r y well fron

,.usch\ri. tz .

':.· Did you h..,t>_r t hl't he hnd ever boo.ten o.eyone?

J •• Nvvur , he \ff.s tho only s . S. ncn who Yit'.s very good fo r the prisoners.

30.

,

Q Do you know Bleck 213 i n Bel s on? 1"• Yos.

Q 1·ias t hat bl ock w or c;rnpty 'ilhilst you \lure at Bclson? by t ho a ussians ond Folish womon.

Q :;ds ·.\,,re 11ui t o scarso in Bolson, vroro not t hoy? J,.. Ther o \iv re 0nly a f a·;1 bl ocks t hat ha~J bcx1 s and all tho othe r pr i soners had to il:ay on t ho floor.

Croes- exami ned by C,'..FT. CORBJ·J.ity 1

• q !3ofore you made t his stat crwnt woro you ShC\m D. photoe raph of t ho ncousod No. 26? (Sohreiror) A. Yos.

Q . '. ·oro you asked if you could s ay anything about him at Ausohtritz? A. ~ havo no.t boon asked nhothor I vras llblo to noko any alloe ations aga inst him; I vros

•askod if I knau him as block al tostor.

Q Bl ock al.tester or bl ockfuhror? ,~. Bl ock al test er.

Q ·.-,oro you lator on br oueht f aoo t o f aco with him vrhon h:: was under nrrost? A Yos.

Cl Whan you wcro asked if you could mak<.? ony statommt about hin as block al t oato.r at ii.usobvi t z vrhat d i d you say? .~. I said that ho v1as no blook al tostor but Oborscharfuhror Hahzi g from /Lusolwri tz •

......

Q \'i oro you asked if you coul d soy anyth ing about hGw ho bchav~ as oborsoharfuhror at iLusohwitz? l ..-. I \"las askod uhcthur I kncv1 anything about him.

Q .J'o you certain aril oon you say on cath that t ho aocusoiJ No. 26 i s t he s omo man as Hanzig whnm you kna.·1 at /.usoh\·ritz? J. . I no.·r am at thot time di d not svroar f or it; I s ai d : "I am unablo t o m1oar because I am not suro of him" .

Q Look at him no.v and ::..·cmcmber tha t you mus t not swear i n Court that ho i s t ho man wlloss you aro sure -- loci<: ot him n0>1 an:l s oy if you c an m·1car ho is t hat man? ~·· Yes; after all , y oo .

Q ·.ihot uo you r..v~m t L m by s ayinB a moment ago you arc not s ure?

COL. B. . .CKHOUSE: I do not t hiri< sho :.ai a tha t . She s a i cl that tho time a t vrhioh sho ·:1as shown t oo photograph sho s ai d sho oould not g;1ear t o it.

C.'.PI' . CORB,'J..LY: Di d I understaro y ou t o say t hat at the t i rno Ytl"'.on you node this statonxmt ·you would not swoor that t ho accused N0 • 26 vras ono and tho samo parson as Oborocharfuhror Hanzie?

COL. ~.CKl-DUSE: I do not v1ant t o int or rupt my f ric nl , but up t o n 11r1 ho has not askod her about the ot otoment . Ho ~skod about t ho t ime vrh::n she v1as s ho;rn tho photoer~h. Tl-i.'1 t i s as fa r as b.J . ~ot .

c;..pr. CORB}1LI:.Y: I un:1orstood hor to sny thot sh.:i sai d she Yrould not SV!Oa r t hot ro was. I t hink pe; r haps tho s horthurxl\/ ri t...r had bet t e r rood \fhot sho s ai d .

(1ho s horthan::lwritc;r r eads tho rclc:vant p assage . )

CJ.l"T. COR3hLLY: ·:ilia+. J i d you moan by s nyi}\g a Jn'.)Jr.Ont ago t hat at t ~'\t t i mo you weno unable t o svroar tha t tho c.couso'J No. 26 i s Hanzig bec ause you Yle r o not sure? ; •• m1on r..sked by tho o apt oin I s ai d t hat I am rot a bl e t o mrc:ir booauso I s aw t ha t 1ran only on a phot o1r aph and I as kccl t o bo gi von t ho opportunity of s eei l18 him porsonoll y bocauso on t his phot oer aph I fo una t hat he was d r essec in o ver y quoor \ID.Y .

-

11 Yos, but boforc you ma.do this statcncnt you di d ootulllly soo hir.i, J i d hot you? .A, I mado my statomont from tho photograph orrl lator on I -.:1as askod to ~7oar on it; I rofusod to s;roar unless I am going to soo him in porson.

Q But woro not you br ("\ught f aoo to faoo with this r.1on lone boforo you mado this stateioont,. at loast not a lo~ timo but boforo this stotomont was mado? 4·~, No • I mado an in1isponsablo oondi tion of swearing this statement t o sec the man personally ~n1 I s oid to tho major that I hove to rofuso taking tr.a oo.th unless I sco him porsonally.

Q But did not you in f aot soo him personally boforo you made th:l stotoment? A No,

Q I put it to you t hnt on the very s 01n::i clay on whioh you first so\7 this photograph al'il only a few hours aftoraords 1 aftor you had soen thot photo­graph, tho aocusecl Sohroi:r:or was brought into th:l office on tho wor orimos imoetigati on team orrl you sm·1 him toon and that that ·was b eforo you mado your etatoJ1Dnt? .\. I have to say omo a~ain that I made my stator:ont only after I havo boon shown his photogr aph am when I nas askod to svrnar I said that I have t o soo this man :)crsonally al'il thon I shall bo ablo to ascertain wheth3r it is really tho s£llm man or not,

Q .i.ro you sayine that part of t.W statom:mt which you made before l.b j cr Champion is not a sworn one, is not a sworn statommt? i~. I sienod am I took an oath for my stotomont as an entity attar I sgy/ tro accused perso~lly,

(,. You also said o f~;: minutes ago that you woro not proparod to ~roor nau that it is the man 3ri\ yet sinoe -----

COL. Bl.CKHOl5E: I must objoot to this boirlB put aeain. }.q friend is aaain suggestire that s he said she was not propored to swoar to it. Can wo havo the shortharo-writor read that part of tho avidcroe?

CAIT. CORBALIX: I am ofraid I must s o.y that it is my :impression am did say so.

THE PRESID~: Vi ould tho shor t "and ..o;1ri tor road th:l relevant pass a,s10?

(Tho shortharilwritor roads the relevant passaeo . )

THE JUOOE ,UJIOCATE: Sho certainly mixed up "nov1 11 arrl 11 at that timo11 • rlhot are was trying to oorwey I do not know; that is for the Court to doo i do. I think the best thi~ is to put tho questi on again,

Cii.Pr. CORDALLY: (To tru witnoss) : \'./hat do you 100nn by sayim o. few lT()monts ago: "I am not now or at thot time Ylilli~ to Si/Oar that it is the man" and yet one minute l ater youlook at him arrl say 11ii.ftor all, yes"? Do you swear or do not you swear? A. I d i d not say "now"; I said only at thot timo I was not able to s;roar to it .

Q Do you say non that you aro p reparoc'! t o 5'o1ear by Almighty God that tho aoou.sod No. 26 is ono and tho same parson as Oborscharfuhror Hanzig Yrhom you know at Auschwitz t\10 yc:ars a,go? 1~. I swore already to soy tho tl.'uth arrl I am unable to lio.

Q Th8t is not on anffi/Or • .'.., Yes , I am ready,

Q Ho nas an oborscharfuhror wmn you knca.-1 him, Yros not ho? i •• I think so; I think t hat ho ·;1as on oborsoharfuhror.

Q ,",.n:j you knau hi m Ythen you wore in t r_c, s1mfokommon1o; is that rir~ht? ,· ... . He was only once in cha i·go of the Buords in tm strafokommarilo but later on I mot hi.1 also in t ho prison v1hcn I \1as sent there bocause of tho roport mado by tho a:>cusod Bonnan.

· . . : • . . ·, .. .. . .. . · ... . . ~ : .. .

. . .. ... .,.

Q You • aid i~ your; statonnnt- that ho damo ·~to Y.ou~" r oom wo_ry day; is :that truo? A. lll)at · .do you moan ·by a .~·oan? ·; !t'~<a~ ·a ·ooll in tho prison. Ho had to oaoo 'thore ovary: .day ~ooouso ·ho Yr11s in char go (!f .. it. Ho had to

(} opon tho d OQr aM look t~ Cl OQ;t° e , . , i • •

Q :L>id ~o talk t o you a lot? · ,~ • . 'Yes, vor-y' froquontly. , • . ..,:

Q \7hat usod ho t o t~k abo~t? A • . Various subjoots; mainly r.usio.

<} Did ro brinB a violin for you t o ~oy ' t o him in tho ooll Yl ith tho I othor prisonors? A. Yos, I v1as hid slov9· orrl I had to do ovorythi~ on his ordors.

Q \7ero there a l ot of other ' prisoners thoro? .~ . A. German \7oman onl.lccl Soiohort, vrho is still in ·Collo, am she rooognisod him in t he same vroy as I as Oborsoharfuhrcr Hanzia .

Q Usod ho to spend a very lo~ tirre with you in tho coll? ... Somotilhos rul hour, sorneti.mes t\10 . ·

Q ;7oro there any 4·~morioans at 1..usclwli tz? ,·~. Tham was one iune1•icon boxer Well known i n t r.a. V(hole CaJ?q> nomou J acoee

I

~~ You. knew him qu~te vre]4., did' not you? :... Yes, he ''as in a s pecial posit ion in the prison; hia duty was to 'brine food for tm Prisoners nnd everybody knew him, because he halped many pris oners in tb3 prison •

• Q Do you say he broucht s~oia.;t f oo<l for tho prisoners? A. It nas tho

normal ration we \'1Cro entitlod to roooive .

Q W&t nas this Jaooo? r!as ho himsolf a prisoner in tho bunker or what v1as ho? ;.. Ha vras the man in charr,e of tho prison; ho was tho man rosponaiblo for

bri rcing f ood for , the prisoners • He \1as ~ prisonor of tho coooontration Oarrq> but ho was employed on special fiutios in too bwicor , the prison; his duties wore to bri?\J f ocd for the prisonors in tho prison, tho bwicor , togoth:lr with aoousod No. 26,

(~t 1724 hours tl:o Court is ndjou.rnod until 0930 hours to-m>rro.·r 3rd Novombor , 1945.)

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