Interview on chronic illness in students

Interview 1 with TC (teacher) at WHS (Teaches science)

Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

MH: So thank you very much. I‘m meeting now with TC

TC: yes

MH:and I’d like to thank you for participating in this study and what I’d like

to do right now is to set up the experience, with some initial questions. And

I’m going to start with asking you to reconstruct your experience. …. you

can feel free to clarify.

TC: sure.

MH: Excellent.….So what I’d like to hear about first, please, is what is your

perception of learning and illness, the impact that illness has on learning.

TC: . learning is an acquisition of knowledge and skills

over a lifetime and learning is the creation of

knowledge, the co-construction of knowledge between

people basically :54 so learning is acquiring and

discovering and making connections and thinking about

things with people and creating knowledge. And illness 1


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

is when the usual harmonious togetherness of the person

or the community or the spirit or the emotion of an

individual is not at their full potential or is not

working in the way they’d like it to work. Illness can

be .. is normally a long term thing, as opposed to an

acute thing. It’s an ongoing and chronic condition and

it differs from an acute episode but acute episodes can

be a part of it. So illness is dishealth or unhealthy or

non health. It’s when people are not up to doing what

they would like to be doing or could be doing if they

didn’t have the illness and it’s normally caused by

either genetics or pathogens or bacterial or yeah,

things that affect the individual. Yeah.

M: alright. What is your perception regarding illness and teaching?

T: Illness and teaching? Illness and teaching. Well,

it’s twofold. First of all, it can be affecting the

teacher as an individual and as part of his or her

family. An illness can affect me, if my children are ill

in terms of taking time off. Also my family being ill

and, my brother, for example, is…my elder brother…my

younger brother’s both epileptic and all of them are 2


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

asthmatic or have got really bad eczema. So they are

ongoing conditions. So as an individual growing up and

as a teacher it affects me. In terms of my class and my

classroom. .., people, kids can …have illnesses which

for example could be autoimmune things which will

affect their stomach like Chron’s disease or ..epilepsy

or .. even ADHD or any of those things which interfere

with their learning. And the way they manifest

themselves could be , .. cause for attention, could be

long periods of sickness off from school. .. it could be

inability to communicate, inability to take in

information and use information. One of my students,

although he can hear what you’re saying, he can’t

auditorily process what you’re saying. Another one of my

students has got an autoimmune .., bowel condition

called Chronic, .., Chron’s disease type condition so

he’s off a lot. ... Some of the girls have got

behavioural disorders. Most of the boy, many of the boys

have behavioural disorders but that’s not chronic

illness. Illness is normally when they’re sick. Yeah.

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Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

M: so what I’d like to know then is, if you could tell me as much as possible

about yourself and.. what your past experience has been regarding

teaching students with illness.

T: (discussion about a student with Down’s Syndrome.

4:15-34.) I’ve had kids who, the normal kids who have

broken arms and legs, but that’s not so much an illness.

I’ve had kids who have been chronically sick and that

merges into, just not being in school for long periods

of time….. …I’ve had kids with diseases that result over

a period of time. I’ve had kids with heart conditions,

obviously kids who can’t see, or morbidly blind. I’ve

had kids in wheelchairs .. where we’ve adjusted the

furniture in the room and their location in the class

in order to .. maximize their chance for involvement. ..

I’m not sure that answered the question. What was the

question again?

M: well, that’s alright. I’d like to know about your past experience ..

T: ..,sure

M: Teaching the students that have these illnesses. Can you set me a

scenario, that would be good.4


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

T: I think, .., I think what I’ve taught them at, in

primary school. So .., I’ve taught children with illness

at prime but also at secondary and before that at

preschool, in terms of play centre and involvement with

play groups and things. So, oh .., also I’ve taught at

University level. Well, I’ve been involved in University

level in terms of continuing education, so I have had

experience of a wide range. Specifically I remember when

.., we had kids who couldn’t walk, were in wheelchairs

and then we would adjust the height of the desks, and

the .., .. the heights of the chairs and the heights of

the lab tables, .., in order to accommodate them in

order to allow them to roll in and out of the room

basically. Some of them have been interesting in that

they’ve been very bright, but they’ve had .. problems ..

in terms of, .., what’s the disease, is it muscular

dystrophy where they can’t, where they’re limited in

their movements. Where they’re limited in their ability.

They’ve had helpers .., and had laptops which they’ve

worked with quite well, but they normally have one on

one helpers. In this class, we’ve had, we normally

have at least one teacher aide. ... If we could get more5


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

that would be good. And that is for kids who are

completely off the wall. That’s not so much illness,

although it is illness in that it’s ADHD, and it’s

ongoing, and without medication the kids are completely

impossible. And even with medication, they’re pretty

impossible so we’ve got at least probably two in any

class at one time. 7:15 .., we have and if we’re lucky

we have a teacher’s aide. I think that for two years we

had no teacher aides, but we had kids with multiple

problems. .. You normally get one or two at all levels,

kids who have got illnesses which impede their

learning.7:29 .. particularly in this school I think

that there’s a lot, that the school takes on a lot of

kids who’ve been rejected or sent down from other

schools. So we have a higher quotient of them. (7:41

discussion about Base one and integration of those

students 8:13) So there’s quite a good attitude,.. and

also the school seems to be founded on difference and a

celebration of difference and diversity, so, a huge

range of cultures, a huge range of abilities, and a huge

range of, people with abilities in terms of illness and

not illness...., so..... I guess in some of the things

in terms of teaching and illness, you just make 6


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

allowances for, .. the kids who are unable to do

particular things and you, try to move the task or

change the task or alter the task and not a big deal

way, but in a small deal way, so they can actually do

the task and so they can either understand it by

chunking it or breaking it down or making it easier or

smaller or different, .., so they can get the same

experience, get the same information as the other kids

without having their dignity basically impugned by

implying that they are different. So you’re trying to

work with them, just as you’re trying to work with kids

across a wide range of abilities. It’s just another

factor in their lives, so they become….they have

differences. But all kids have differences, 9:19 yeah.

Yeah.

M: Could you tell me more about the allowances that you specifically have

done in your classroom?

T : well, .. for kids who can’t come to school because

they’ve got illness, then you give them a wide range of

books and videos. I’ve got DVD’s. I’ve got 750 DVD’s

which I lend them. You know I also send the stuff online7


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

to them. So I email the work home and I work digitally

with them. They’re all on Netbooks. Everyone’s on

Netbooks so the information can be digitally sent to and

from them. They can work directly to a Google page then

they can upload it and I can see it, which is

instantaneous. They can work with other kids in the

class on the Google page. They can Skype the kids who

are in class and they can see what they are doing, what

I am doing. And they can also, kids can also run their

computers to pick up what I’m doing. So we can relay it

to them. Kids pretty well can go on adventures in terms

of other schools or other places or other organizations

using new technologies where they can, they don't’

actually have to go there, so they can visit these

places, whether they be zoos or art galleries or

anything, really, but they can do it digitally. And I

can go and shoot for them, .., slideshows and

PowerPoints and presentations about all the things that

you see at the zoo, all the things you’d see at Karori

Wildlife Sanctuary or on a trip to the seaside so they

can actually see those if they can’t actually go there.

But mostly we try to include them in the activities. So

we put them on the van and carry them there basically 8


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

and try to use the access points that we’ve got to give

them the experience of being there, yeah.

M: so10:56 in the past, in your teaching a student, you’ve used a lot of

technology and you’ve provided a lot of aides for them to take with them.

You mentioned high absenteeism.

T: some of them are high absenteeism 11:11 because

they’ve got chronic conditions, which just keep on

going. It’s just a matter of staying in touch with their

parents and staying in touch with them, and monitoring

their work and .., doing it digitally and online and

connecting with them. So you’re actually sending them

the information, connecting with them. .., which I think

teachers will do. It’s your job as teachers to teach the

kid, whether they’re here or not, whether they’re

actually in front of you or if they can’t be in front of

you, they’re still your student, s11:39 so if you have

to do it by correspondence or you have to do it by

distance or you have to go around and deliver..I’ve gone

around and delivered the box , I’ve collected the box

and had the books ready. Sometimes they get suspended

not necessarily the kids with illnesses but I think if 9


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

suspended,11:49 you’re equally given the information

they need to be able to pass the test.11:56

M: alright you’ve talked a little bit about that experience, your past

experience and what I hear is that a lot of that is also what’s going on,

currently. Is there anything else you think you want to tell me about that

about, past experience, any specific instance that might highlight or

anything in particular that you might like to share?

T: I think in primary school when I was teaching in

primary school to involve the kids as much as possible

in sporting activities. 12:27 If they’ve got an illness

that requires them to be in wheelchairs, say, then

trying to involve them in some way. For example, there

was a kid who had, .., a chromosome disease which meant

that his, that ?condria wasn’t working, but I think it

might have been called Fragile X. (this is a form of mental

retardation so does not fall under chronic illness.12:42-12:57) So

working with the kids, with the ability they’ve got, to

extend them as far, as much as possible. On the basis of

that if I, if my kids were ill, then I’d want the same

for them. 13:09So from having children comes the

realisation that all children are different and all 10


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

children need help at different times. We all do. 13:16

So therefore, you should help people basically. And I

think it’s not just teaching. It’s helping the whole

person. Often the kids can’t learn or understand or work

because they’re upset about something. You need to find

out what is upsetting them and try to help them sort it

out, whether it be through counselling or .. advice, or

whatever it is that they need. If they haven’t been fed,

then you give them your lunch. If they haven’t (deep

breath) if they haven’t got food or clothes or whatever

it is they are required to be able to learn, whatever’s

impeding them then you do everything you can. If they

can’t afford a pen, you get them a pen, if they need to

buy a book, buy a book. If they can’t afford a

textbook, you buy the textbooks. It sounds a bit like

over the top, but it’s exactly what I’ve been doing for

this class and all other classes I’ve taught because if

they haven’t got a pen, they can’t write, so you give

them a pen. 14:05. It gets a bit expensive after a

while. Especially when it comes to textbooks.. Some kids

in this school can’t afford textbooks. Some kids can’t

afford notebooks or laptops in which case we have a

supply of them and we give them. (discussion regarding 11


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

laptops 14:16-14:24) So it’s going that extra mile 14:25

or that extra kilometre or whatever to give them the

things they need to be able to learn, and what they

need. And this is the same with kids with illness.

They’re just the same as ordinary kids but they need

more. 14:38 They need different. They need… things,

yeah…(discussion of students with psychological or

psychiatric conditions and what is provided for them 14-

42-15:09)

M: alright,

T: yah

M: so then, we’ve talked a little bit about the past experience and you’ve

brought in a lot about the present experience, so we’ll go ahead and talk

about the present experience

T: sure

M: and

12


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

T: I’ll think about the past and come up with some and

pass an email to you.

M: Sure?

T: yeah

M: that’s good. ... Keeping specifically to the students that you know that

have a chronic illness and you’ve mentioned different illnesses within your

classroom, so we’re gonna just focus on them. And what I’d like to know is

what do you think or feel is currently helpful right now. You’ve mentioned

some of that already, but I’d like to hear again or some more, about what is

currently helpful in or around the school setting, these things that you think

are working.

T: sure . The things that are helpful are , is initially

is live bodies on the ground, 16:06 which means, ..,

teacher’s aides or assistants or helpers or parents or

caregivers or contact with the home. 16:15 So to

actually have people contact, with kids who have chronic

or ongoing illnesses or problems is really

important.16:26. Not just in the classroom, but also 13


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

we’ve got learning support people or learning service

support people not just for the gifted and talented but

for the kids who are finding it hard. We’ve got

counsellors; we’ve got 2 or 3, at least 2 counsellors

full time looking after them. Psychologically, we’ve got

nurses coming in, health nurses, who come in on a, I

don’t know, probably on a weekly basis. So there’s

health nurses in terms of health issues. We’ve got

dental staff for kids with problems in terms of painful

teeth, so we’ve got dental clinic which is outside. So

it’s teacher’s aides (17:05), .. oh hang on, I forgot

the original question, what was the original question?

Sorry.

M: Oh, what do you feel is currently helpful in or around school settings,

specifically having to do with students with illness.

T: I think it’s a attitudinal or cornerstone of the

school that it welcomes and celebrates and rejoices in

difference. Difference in diversity from the physical

and from the psychological and from the emotional.

Differences in terms of different people, different

cultures, different abilities, different ways of 14


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

thinking, different ways of learning. So the classes are

very, very mixed. And that comes right from the Base One

(discussion of this 17:78-18:34) In terms of illnesses,

the ability to provide digital or physical resources

that the kids can take home that you can stay in touch

with the kids to provide them the rich learning

experience. I think also an awareness or a tolerance or

an acceptance that everybody’s not going to necessarily

be here all the time18:59 and the reason that they’re

not here isn’t necessarily because they’re truant or

they don’t want to be. It’s because they’ve got things

that makes it difficult for them to come or sometimes

impossible for them to come. 19:09 These could be

psychological or they could be illnesses or they could

be physical or it could a whole range of reasons why

kids can’t come, but just cause they’re not in front of

you 19:17 doesn’t mean they’re not vital to you in terms

of your teaching, that you need to teach them. You need

to be able to track the knowledge and package the

knowledge and provide the knowledge in a form that they

can absorb. That’s what I think. Yeah.19:30

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Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

M: alright. So how about knowing where to get information regarding a

student’s health.19:37

T. .., well that appears on a system called KAMAR,..,

our internal system, .., our computer system’s there’s a

little box that has a red cross in it. You need to go

and look at the notes on that and look up.19:49 Also

there’s a thing called tukutahi, which is where

different branches of the different information systems

whether they be science or social sciences or whatever.

All the different teachers get together and do joint

learning. So that’s called tukutahi.

M: can you spell that?

T: t, u, k, u, t, a, h, i. tukutahi

M: and that’s a Maori word.

T: that’s a Maori word meaning actually, .. it means

the first feet on the particular marae. So what we use

it in, in to mean is integrated learning, integrated

learning in terms of subject and skills basically. So

it’s integrated subjects and four teachers get together.16


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

That’s a tukutahi group and will look after a year 9 or

2 year 9s or two year 10 groups. So there’ll be 60 kids

overall. Each person will be responsible for 15 kids. So

I’m responsible directly for those 15 kids, all the way

through, so I care for them pastorally and academically

and emotionally and everything all the way from when

they start at year 9. So I form contracts with them and

their parents as to what they need to learn, and how

they’re learning it and each week they actually

digitally write as to how they’re meeting their goals

and objectives and every term there’ll be a report as to

how they’re going as well as there’ll be emails and

phone calls and conversations with parents. And the

parents come in and they reformulate those goals on a 6

monthly or an annual basis or both, as to how they’re

going in terms of their goals. So their parents know how

they’re going 21:26 and these four teachers get together

and provide the information and skills that the kids

need.

M: Now is this is this, for all of the students in the school or is this

particularly

17


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

T: for all the juniors

M:, this is for all of the students as opposed to just the students with chronic

illness

T: it’s for all the students but you’ve got a

particular need if you’ve got a student with chronic

illness to a) know what it is, b) keep everybody else

informed and in the loop, c) keep track of their

progress and how they’re going. d) if there is any

accommodation that is being made or needs to be made in

terms of exams, assessments, you know, room

arrangements, seats, chairs, whatever it is that that

particular student with illness requires them to do. In

addition to that there’s the learning support who also

help with that. There’s the .., the front of office

people who help with that. Then there’s the Deans.

There’s 5 Deans. One Dean per year group who has an

overall view for that entire year 22:18. And so that

Dean might spend a lot of time just checking that the

child is okay as well. So they’ve sort of got backup. So

you’ve got one teacher who’s chiefly responsible inside

a group of four, called the tukutahi18


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

M: Right..

T: and inside those tukutahi there’s 60 kids, 15 kids to

each teacher and the teacher’s responsible, solely

responsible for looking after that student and keeping

that student in touch with the community 22:50 and

the school and so all actions which are recorded on the

computer by different teachers are, go through that

teacher and resolutions or restorative justice or

whatever it is that the child needs is, goes through

that. Yeah.

M:Alright. So .., now my next question is who and you’ve mentioned that

already briefly, who do you think is currently, right now as opposed to the

past, who do you think is currently helpful and I do realize that you‘ve

covered that…

T: I’ll go over it again. So who’s helpful? I think

there’s about are five layers of help. One, there’s the

individual teacher who’s called the tukutahi teacher

who’s responsible for that student who has the aim, who

has to actually set the goals and monitor the progress

academically, emotionally, and learning wise of that 19


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

student. above them or working with them is a group of 3

other teachers who form the tukutahi who are working

directly with that student, teaching the student, 24:05

the basic knowledge of maths, and science and English

and social studies. Beyond that there’s another ring of

at least 15 or 16 teachers 24:11 who will interact with

that student, called the option teachers and they range

from everything from technology to cooking to metalwork

to woodwork to a whole range of things, music. Above

that is, would be the Deans. The Dean is responsible for

the year’s worth of kids, which is probably 120 or maybe

220. .., in addition to that there’s learning support

who come in from the side and assisting the teachers

and the individuals and so they’ll also be looking at

extreme behaviour and extreme problems and helping. On

the psychological side, is the is the counsellors and in

addition to that there’s two other projects that we’re

running called (or maybe three) he says this softly, thinking

about it. One’s called Travelers, which seem to be a

group of people who come in and assist and help kids at

risk. .., there’s Zeal, which seems to be a particular

Christian group which comes in and helps the kids ..,

spiritually and psychologically and emotionally and 20


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

generally really good for them. In addition to that

there’s another group that I forget. I think that

there’s another group which particularly targets young

Maori at risk who come and assist and help, I’m not sure

what that’s called. Above that, 25:33 At the top level,

we have a variable level of deputies, deputy principals,

possibly two or three deputy principals and maybe an

Assistant Principal who keeps an overview of the whole

thing and the Principal who is on leave at the moment,

she’s got keeps a pretty good eye on everything that

moves or thinks or does anything in this school. In

order to come to this school, you have a meeting I think

we’re the only one in Wellington that does this, a half

hour meeting with the parents where they talk, in

depth, about all the needs of the child, so the illness

would come up at that level and we would know at the

very beginning what it is, some of the issues that we

need to be addressing would be briefed in tukutahi

meetings 26:11 which occur every morning between 8:30

and 8:45 so there’d be a meeting then we’d do a tukutahi

meeting with the kids between 8;45 and 9, so the

information that had come from the previous time, or the

previous week or the previous day would come from 8:30 21


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

to 8:45 and come up to the teachers and that information

would be acted on between 8:45 and 9.

M: so am I correct, then, in understanding that you have at these tukutahi

meetings every day?

T: well, we have had a meeting which encompasses that

called a briefing, a staff briefing every morning. Part

of that is tukutahi in addition to that we have weekly

tukutahi meetings and then there’s , tukutahi leaders

who meet every Wednesday or Thursday morning, so there’s

extra meetings, yeah.

27:01.

M: What or who do you believe would influence the student with chronic

illness. Who do you believe, what do you believe influences the academic

success of these students and if you like I can read you a list and say yes or

no?

T: yeah, go for it

M: so do you think family will influence a student’s academic success?

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Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

T: Yes, not just because how much the family pushes

them, requires, requests, and pleads and begs and

provides resources for that student and the expectation

of that family. That will have a direct effect on

influence on the teachers and the school as to what will

be provided so yes, the family is a huge portion of it

.

M: How about peer support?

T: Peer support is two levels of peer support. Not only

do we have peer support coming from kids around that

person, which is very, very, vitally important and is

reflected in all sorts of social media and social

networking sites where you see comments, or or thoughts

from the kids, 28:07 but also we also have peer

supporters who come from a higher level, like years 13

and 12, who actually come down and work with the juniors

at the years 9 and 10 level to try and give them

support. And they’re trained separately by the

counsellors to actually administer that support. Yeah.

28:25

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Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

M: Do you believe teachers influence 28:30 student’s academic success?

T: I do! Hugely. I think, that just speaking as a

teacher, I think that’s the most important of all, to

have high expectations and to provide the resources and

the wherewithal and learning and the helping that the

student needs. 28: 41 I think that’s absolutely vital.

21:44 I think that, going back to peer support, when

we’ve had people with chronic .., what was is it called

when you don’t eat, it’s called….

M: Anorexia?

T:Anorexia. We had a girl with chronic anorexia, we had

small groups of girls who would accompany this girl

everywhere cause otherwise she would go and be bulimic

in the toilet. 29:00 They would accompany her and look

after her and keep her from killing herself basically.

She would spend like 6 weeks in hospital and then she’d

come out, so they would actually monitor her and look

after her 29:11 and I would say can you just go why,

watch could you just go check and see if she’s okay in

the toilet or can you keep an eye on her, so I was 24


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

working with the peer group (29:19 discussion on cutting

yourself, drug dependency --29:44.)Peer group is

particularly effective. (29-45 discussion of child with

learning difficulties 30:52)

M: How about general staff, general school staff?

T: yes, not just the health nurse in terms of bleeding

or epilepsy or sudden you know, collapse or fainting or

whatever it is, but also, but also keeping care of the

medications, and making sure that they take the

medications, 31:12 and being there in terms of

emergencies with allergies with those epipens, so that

sort of stuff, so yes. But also in terms of

counsellors, in terms of psychological, emotional.

physical in terms of deputy principals who might have an

overview over the deans. Head of departments who you can

go to when you need it, yes, there’s strong support

structures in the school for them, 31:35 yeah.

M: Do you think do you think health practitioners influence the student’s

academic success?

25


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

T: Yes…

M: this is your perception.

T: yes, in that so much they actually prescribe the

medications or the drugs or the medical devices that

allow the kids to activate their learning potential,

31:57 in so much that they allow mobility or gain

mobility. No, in so far as they actually block access to

the things that the kids need. Often it comes down to

money so that if you pay lots of money you can actually

get access to the equipment, you get access to the drugs

that you need 3 2: 14(example of his mother with chronic hip

problems regarding paying private versus of public )32:42. So if you

have a student, he might have access to the operations

or the drugs or the care that you need and that is a

straight government financial funding split 32:53 In

order to keep down the amount of money being spent on

health, the government will ration health by having a

long waiting list. It’s a political decision. 33:01

Yeah.

M: alright. Do you believe culture influence..26


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

T: yeah, hugely. Cultural influences us hugely in any

which way. So culture as me, a white teacher teaching

Maori and Pasifika Island kids. Me, as a male teacher

teaching female kids, ( 33:22-34:06 separate

discussion )

M: so how would you say, in terms of academic success and culture and you

and this particular setting, how do you think the culture influences a

student’s academic success?

T: It’s huge, 34:25 For three reasons. First of all, if

you’re a Maori or Pasifika Islander, you might actually

be associated with lower achievement. So you may want

to stay in the group and may not want to excel, you may

want to stay in a group that is not excelling. Equally

you may have pressure at home, a)(if you don't want to

acknowledge that you’re Maori or Pacific Islander

because you want to be seen as a high achiever

(discussion about self identification. 34:39-35:08) …

Their culture might say hey, keep quiet until you’re an

elder in which case you can talk. Of wait til you’re an

elder brother you may be the speaker 35:14, not 27


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

necessarily the younger brother; if you’re a younger

brother you may be required to keep quiet. (discussion

of how religion may affect behaviour and classroom

experiments–Culturally in terms of religion you may have

to fast for a month at time for Ramadan so they come in

hungry, so they miss school cause they’re really hungry

or they may not be able to eat til night which means

they’ve decreased the time to sleep or they might be

thirsty so they can’t actually eat or drink. Equally

well, you can’t do experiments or you don’t want to do

experiments where you’re testing food or water at that

time or anything that might be tempting them to break

their fast. So you make allowances and you treat it as

part of the school.35:56

M: So how about with culture in speaking specifically about the students

with illness, and how perhaps a Maori or Pasifika student or from another

culture, if that, you think, also affects their academic success. Or the student

with the illness’ itself.

T:Yeah, I think there’s three points there. First of

all, some illnesses, people may not actually want to see

it as an illness. 36:31 They may actually want to see 28


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

being deaf as being a part of the deaf culture, using

sign language, and resisting having a thing in their

head to allow them to listen and that’s a valid form

that they may want to be different than the hearing

community and they may have their own kind of

background, etc 36:53 I don't’ think that answers

your question though, try to ask it again…

M: how do you think culture affects specifically a culture would affect a

student who has a chronic illness. His or her specific culture and how, if, in

fact, do you think or do you feel a culture that the student comes from will

affect a student with chronic illness will affect his academic or

T: yes, I do,

M: his academic success

T: yes, I do because strictly Maori or Pacific Island

may feel that there’s a curse or that there’s a reason

for them being ill. They may associate it and it may

sound racist, but in terms of having just done a program

on gastric cancer and looking at the tribe, at the iwi,

or hapu, thought that they were cursed because all their29


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

family was dying of gastric cancer. In fact it was a

genetic disease which was discovered and unearthed, but

I’m taking from that is that people, some people in some

groups think that that there’s a curse on a particular

group of people 37:49 or .. particular person who may

have an illness, so whereas I may see it as a particular

genetic anomaly, they might see it as a comment on their

spiritual or religious background or what their parents

did.38:06 .. In terms of different cultures, Indian may

have different approaches according to their castes, the

Buddhist or the Asian may have a completely different

cultural attitude to what suffering means 38:19. They

may see it as part of dharma or paying for past wrongs

and that if you interfere with that .you’d be

interfering with their movement up a ladder of, what to

you call it when they come back again?

M: reincarnation?

T: reincarnation. It might be affecting them. Equally

Maori and pacific islanders might have a different

attitudes towards menstruation. (more on this and pregnancy.

38:45 – 39:46)30


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

M: so in terms of culture, then, I want to see if I'm understanding that you

do believe that that culture, depending on where the student with the illness

is from, that the culture may affect the student.

T: yes.

M: academic success, academically as well. He has an illness and because of

their own ideas, or views from their culture, you think that that may impact

whether or not the student is in school, or how the student feels about his

illness and therefore his learning.

Yes, I think it can impact upon their being in school.

40:22 I think it's the teacher’s job to provide as much

support, resources, background, information, and

assistance to that student. And if their culture is such

that it’s liable that they’ll be able to access that,

then the teacher should be providing every which way

they can to support that student. I think it is our job

to help them to do that. 40:44And yes, there will be

some cultures where their attitude or their impression,

their view of illness will be such that it will get in

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Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

the way of the kids’ learning. 40:56 It shouldn’t but

it will. Yeah, yeah.

M: How do you feel that the people that you’ve talked about, family, peer

support, teachers, staff, even health practitioners, you’ve mentioned school

counsellors 41:11. How do you feel that these individuals influence your

ability to help the student with a chronic illness achieve academic success?

T: I think they help. I think all of the background help

, all of the policy, all of the planning, the

background, the resources help me to do my job, but in

the final analysis it does come down to me. 41:34 It

comes down to me helping and supporting the child, and

going the extra mile for them.41:39 Other teachers don’t

because other people, other teachers haven’t’ got the

time or the energy or the resources or the background or

the support to do it. But they may not just want to do

it. I think I do it. And I think other teachers would do

it, but when you’ve got, 30 kids in a class and you’ve

got 5 classes, that’s a150 kids and the amount of time

that you have available after teaching, in terms of

planning and marking, and assessing is very small. 42:12

Especially, you know, since you’re not paid for any of 32


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

that time, and that sticks a bit because, as a part time

teacher I’m here from 9 to 6 anyway and all those hours,

although I’m working past 80%, the 20% I’m not paid for

that, but I’m still performing at that level because I

expect that and because I’m a professional basically.

So yes, I think all the support structures do help 42:36

…I think to have two counsellors does help

immensely,42:38-42-45…..(gender, sexualit,y culture happens). To have

a nurse available when you have a chronic attack or

something happens, then that is very important 42:53 To

have the resources so that if there is an emergency you

can clear the building and .. get assistance for them is

vitally important. 43:00 To have Head of Dept support

that’s great! To have deans overlooking the whole thing

is wonderful. 43:08 To have the tukutahi teachers that

you can just meet and talk and say what’s happening,

43:14 what’s on top. It’s wonderful. So you have a

group of four solid core teachers that you’re working

with, and you’re one of four, yup.

M: Now I’d like to know, .what do you think is the student’s with chronic

illness educational environment, his learning environment

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Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

T: I think their learning environment is everything

that they see, experience, feel and do. I think it all

of it impacts on upon their learning 43:40. So whether

it be from home to school to sport to tv to environment

to everything that they see and do impacts upon them.

43:50 It’s not just the 6 hrs or 5 hours that they can

spend in school which impacts upon them. It’s the whole

thing in terms of their learning. Their learning is a

holistic thing. 44:05 It’s everything that they see and

do.. What we’re basically doing is neurons in their

brain which are being pruned if they’re not used. In the

time of learning, which is probably til they’re 25 these

days, their brain is being restructured and so we are

trying to reinforce to reinforce the connections that we

think is important and that we think will be important

for them in the future….. They’re hopefully getting that

reinforcement from their parents. They’ll be getting

different reinforcement, but it should be equally well.

They’re reinforcing what they think is important. 44:33

M: My follow up question was what was their learning environment and

who’s involved, but you’ve pretty much answered that.

34


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

T: It’s pretty holistic. Yeah, but I think a whole lot

of learning is done in the media, new media, in terms of

new media, internet, computer games, there’s YouTube,

video games. 44:55 A lot of their time is spent on that

and if we could provide software that would actually

deliver education messages as well as fun gaming, then

we might have a winner. I think the whole thing is

moving towards a virtual reality, augmented reality

which is different than the sort of teaching that you

see around you which is 2D pictures on the wall and flat

45:20.(discussion about learning being technological)

45:45

M: what works in the school, I think I’ve asked this similar question What is

working specifically, specifically you, TC, in this school, in this learning

environment with students you currently have to be successful. What’s

helping you to help them be successful.

T:Generally it’s the expectation that I will. It’s the

resources and the knowledge the training, the

professional development that the school has given me to

know about the conditions and know what it is that I

need to do for it.46:22 It’s the information about the

specific condition got by discussion with the parents 35


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

and with the child, 46:29 and with the caregivers and

with the health people to work out what it is that they

need.46:34 It’s the creation of individual learning

plans for these children that tells what I need to do

in order to get this message across to them, to get the

information across. 46:44 It’s the changing of the

learning and the assessment criteria to accommodate them

and it’s an appreciation that learning happens on a 24/7

out of school as well as in school experience. 46:58 So

(pause) Overall it’s my attitude, its the resources

which the school’s given to me or provided to me or that

I find or take, and it’s the match with the kids

expectations and the level with which they are, in terms

of their learning.47:13 yeah.

M: You’ve mentioned the tukutahi and the juniors. I’m interested in hearing

about the seniors, what’s going on for them?

T: The tukutahi breaks down in year 11, which is 5th

form, which is the 3rd year. And then there’s a Senior

Dean, a senior tukutahi person who’s responsible for

setting another 15 kids. So we mix it up at that stage.

M: Okay.36


Date 23 Aug 2011, 54.55

T: and the groups go into groups of 15 again. But

they’re senior teachers who have the same job of

carrying on doing that all the way through 47:53……...

But the Dean continues all the way through so the Dean

continues from year 9 all the way through year 13.

47:59 So the Dean sees the year group all the way

through. But what happens is there is a cycling of

teachers at the yr 9 and 10, so we do a year 9 then a

year 10, so we go back to being a year 9 and year 10. So

there is a turnover in terms of the juniors. And there’s

a whole brand of senior teachers who take over from us.

48:15

M: (wind up of thanks and end of interview).

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Interview on chronic illness in students

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Transcript of Interview on chronic illness in students