46T O1IG2U,~HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. tV oe

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

TESTIMONY

TAKRN BEFORE

THE SELECT COMMITTEE

ON

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL

IN RFAARD TO

THE SELECTION OF A SUITABLE ROUTE FOR THECONSTRUCTION OF AN INTEROCEANIC SHIP

CANqAL ACROSS THE AMERICAN ISTHMUS.

V IRUARY 2i,, 1880.-Ordered to be printed.

WASHINGTON:COVJ2NXX2XT PRINTING OJFIR.

1$"l

A'

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

TESTIMONY TAKEN BEFORE 'THlE SELECT COMMITTEE ON THEINTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL, APPOINTED UNDER

THE FOLLOWING RESOLUTION:IN TILE HlOUSE OF" lJ 'PlI .FSNTA'rvE;s, December Its, 1879.

Resolved, That a select committee of l mleueeuilhrs lie hereby appointed, whoseduty it shall be to examinei into the subject ,of the 4electim ofa suita.ruet route for theconstruction of an intereeoeieit ship Vaul.11 ar.s the Ameriean isthmus ; that allpetitions, memorials, resmolhimn., bills, and reports on such canal or other mode oflacilitating1 comu1ni cation between the Atlantic asnd Pacific oceans be referred to thiscommittee, and that they have authority to report to this house at any time such res-olution as may be best, adapted to secure such communication between said oceans.

The Speaker announced the appointment, a, such committee, of the following mem-bers:

Messrs. King of Louisiana, Singleton of Illinois, Whitthorno of Tennessee, Martinof West Virginia, Oscar Turner of Kentucky, Nicholls of Georgia, Hutchins of NewYork, Page of California, Conger of Michigan, Frye of Maine, Haskell of Kansas.

1 INT

V

I

1~

1KIJ

I NTEI OHEANIC 8I1I1) (CANAL.

T~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~~~V I~l if co I I I~.b Ire, I~ I tIIj11 1 1: fIItlt ltII14 1PP

Rva'4r-Adl4Iiral V 4EI. S, N., api-ilrdd hvttorv life- vommliitlet', 11101d, itftl v 1 II it- 11

tlng somne papers, said:It 54'4'144t tol hb' of a great dtili 4ii imiportac t1111hat I ilii sI IIilld hbe 54)4414' al-io4l on1 t

hill aiuthorizinug or direct ing till- vriti hud 4'xaination 414141 gooI ii 'lgiile'rs ft t he PananmAn~d N icaragua ri en tem. A great deal of Iiisapprolriv4iisii e exists 011 It 144 4 llbi'it, andf a1greil deal of assert iont has 11 ieen 4411014 simply for till- purp-Iose of lefhggilg till pliblilmind14 inl regatri to t hose two r4)iites. The exam inti 4 imiiiohi' by I Ill coi'411i514frg onllIfii' part of ouir governinv'itt were very fill. and44 at our ins4tan4ce- till' Paiiia, route wascare'11fiil li sui'vve'i1 and located, and althtoighil. lit' course54, till- fart heri northI the line iA1iit4,4 - tti' ht'tt'ir I'o1'445routa national poijaI (of v ie'-%% ye It hI ievpc 1ifIit ur'su uI i ll ally routewould liv so) very considerable that fte mattvir is really 1 m ted to tie( qist ion whetherwe vanti inakvi' canl I rotitable Itt ally ImOint. I tiiik NV' 4-1111, Uoid I hI ire that W~e!canl iltko a cana i'iiih41 the Ni('Iiliglia, roitie aI t 44)1104 n thtan ill.-hal C thel coist of antyother route. A (-, iil ce4 44rtinly ('-111tlbe miadle itt P'anama41, Wit I suspect Iii at yolu -wouldqhave to lock till holIt' toulI r fet higher than fihe ox'i-Li .4Iv~ 5l4V~54 indct e. wiili1 is l'28feet. If there 1ha1d 144'4'4 it414,411 at Matitchiio ill thiis n'4'l'4 l d t14441 -r1444 w4414i1 haivebeen 11Ii) feet de-pthi ot' waxti 4 Oer w 124 Itt'tt onily '.v11 iliti-m414 , 'I'li'41. tooi. thetire is acu4rret at and btelow tliv bridge iat llarbllooas of t'igil miiles ait hour. Now, even ad-mittiugr that there wiolid lie. 1(1 fidi ther-, it stri hi's 41411411 ha ilic 5t'il'iit 4'ti't of sucha body oif water, fiilhig viot (oily thel hivd (of the( strevaml, blit tile valley, 411141 he ohi'i-onq to every p~ern1, wlihe l( lie. is an4 v'i44ee4'-i 01' not ;14 an I4151)11 t hat it would4 lhoquite sufficient to tear out, everythlintg that was 444)4 sol id rock and44 reth(4'140it it giad-lially as the for1ce ott tue current gre'w less, Wa1ter' tli'ivp.' its power fromi its hleadI.You)4 miay pe4rhap1 s (,li1t it a1 duc1tile' f'orce'( or inxtmt 4 4i4l and4 it yo lit it 31 atmomp44-114r4'5on tolp of thiat and14 ma41ke it go att 8 knotts a14 liiiuii 'i4 4144 can 'lildily 544' why it :t'-ts 54)

11110'i inore, powerfuilly iii tranispor'ting maiiterials, bte4'11 44'14 iioil hae I lieni 31 itm414 ih110r4'pressing (howln this dttilo find'e, aild, after ai gi 14'14 veloglity is nmi'4141lI, vii'ym awayeverything short oif the bard'4 llittoln4 rock. I wits illfor4lm41 hy a gvtil-hilln who44 hadIcharge oIt tilt force o444 tIll' ist 14444:, thalt ill tha rid4'4ge' mid4 tO'-~411li tshihimatltchll~ d14uring till- floodi tll,' ratlt' till- t'iirri''it %,Its vi-ght 4441 ii' al 11141ir. There isgood I leasoll to l41i4'v4 thlat it tillti'4'r examuinatio fit4 fli t- Nicaragiu lotlit', m' il shl-tiiit. from tell t41 I w4'1e miles, This is not a. nere suppos4)ition4. Sintiiii 111' 14 414 line oflo(-ation ts '1 41114, exaina tltionis haive' la4iii naili- till 141,11 sidets whli'll slitr tit ' () tilE1141kioNii par Ilito 41 it wc4'4feir alld f ie lil is. 14444 tile i11I541444' 4of st 44444 4'ls 110 ig it) fromthat sidf ' fli te Sanm .1ani 1(1wouldh4 ind44icaite that 1111 if ill 1c444 lit.i' 441414' there. shor14t-ellinlg till- tlistaiiv', 414441 of 4'olirse reicing til, iiis. Whii I ilike this st atleentYo)4 gen4t14'4-1i miiay veryv Well atsk, why was nust the ihit aion 4411414 there' (rigi-itily ! My answer is that flit-' location Ililds' wais iiitendviil simlN to ili-tinim,44 thei'1iluestiiin 441 hra4'tic'11liit v. tile 44 11liti 444ll~ in thit tll- c01,4paii4Y WVIIll it 1114454 to

INTIElNu(EANIC 1411ll' CANAl..

(con1trucm t I lia-, aal %% maildl 4at' vtli-a maake' a1 va'i 1.1-ai'a l ana11111 1y ~i~ ' andlim-lir ct I ha', c'ry Iaa'st rain 4. T[he oirigintal loa 'tioan ran ooot'r -.ail- i* 11 fi-~ e'a high, bautwe know~~ now t hat " it liaat iira'asin.g th lit, t 10144'e ani eleai ll (if 43 ta'at 4a114 lbmsilt-8t itived'a for 1- -vt44 lit-tweantilt-ha paaint %0whe ha', 4 anal lea es thll- ri 'v r andl (,*rev~-

Mr. 'IlNOYF.H.S. lI:Ni, il 'jam ,iN jaiaatil-S lit' tilt- raittAdmuairal A~tmmrN. Yl s: I lina .a rfiles oft filla' a It ila' ut. :iild %cry gaaaaal atnas.'l'lia admniiral licre -.1ihjtit h4. mlljm aat thet Nic'aragu~a sm-%' a'-,A 111.i' a t-. l.ajam

tar sotant hrt railta. a'xtainihii fromt h ~ka a the lah-.ilf it altia :11a'a4a tiall h'ialiar oaf thaeItiao 411' 1 NJala VIaI i 1 Iart 11-a111-i aita'. ~ai il Iia Ia =haat tar I tlt a , gra'ata't'j el.'It .t IiaaII -1 I 'veatjtipta':l (aif 4.. 1

Coalatiliing hlis iiiia s ta-a %;il This mli I No.. 1) t(t' flie- Naragwki. %ai'ashaatws t1w guiaeral Iaaaa all. St lii g traom Nol ;robaw -,atiata-r' a t hat t herae is a veary

g reat 411A a' atf ft I i%~ ar ft a i t o Ia aIi I. atal. TIhe part fat' 11ha' rolut. Yaai sat' locaataed1 era' 1 assa'ah h1raatlli -Stlilaa lmaI~a awal thliti saalia lia' v alit titig'. it is k;.aam 1a flow,by' furt heri a'\ldalimi it' t ha' "at .1mmatillaa, t hat thm lua' a \ ,pua vNitrs cant, a' aj aleal.llal a ti'Il oft 45a h'?ti 411t it itt4 14al 1,i' I ' ht. Wae kiaa'a alsaa, by' a' limilat toll ao' flia,

Rita SallaI luaiia-is'aa thmat lathf' a'l 4h'a'v\taa' Ii ;ad that liver thearae is laa\N graatuia-aanlyfoaur aar tiva' tilas aaf ft-a alistatii'a remains tiaX laralit he la inicaationls ira' thatt lht graainda ia Ila'j , -ia that ill 'aait t'laataarl ('ra'yltawia l ilalti a hut'o aat' i'alaaatiotitat ft Riaa Nati Franiaisca \%a' tanil ala'ta'rititia' N~olu la'hatis is a fi-iat aar naat ; maal if it isfouinad 1 htratiailla ritt it \% ili horliataii I lie alistaiiaa Ilii I0t ta 1N) mu-, ill will atar-r4't4~Aatatigl rlta' I v ulc lit' cii.1 aat'i aaalia't 1.a

'.\lr. SIa fit ta'. Whlat is fta ali'tatia'e tiltiatotn til a a, t lta' h nila't ;I* laial dm% 11 i?Admtniral Ammi'N. TI't aliataiic. if I ia'tna'aitaa'r ii Olitly. fidtla'j ina- flia tt a'-. ilatatit

4V miles.Mr. ~laltt A nd hYaa lay , ha' t.\ti a''abjhl P ItI Iuga tha.t a\ aaall haa %hlat't-a'a hoaw

111a)a11 ?~4Amiral Nmmat'at.;' Mo~ire thn 101 lalilas. 1,li1' 'jila'l ali'taiaa' a\ aitila bea ailaailt 30a hula's

anad, as I liai alrt'aay sida, thai-a' is a1 ra'aSaaliatala'. prabaility at tit t muh buatteri laaaa-tiotl-tat aula'alar acuttitng. anal froaat iall a ) m2laias l,--- adistalnce. Thea lItka at. this laailit[indicat intg fill thi'ill' 1 3:11 tua-''ls ol''lii.awilag tta f lit' Riao Ftriao blligla ill a goaoa(leal ait loa-a tmua. [hat' waailal hiave' ~ tt' csime alra'agiiagr t ol ti1a t'a oalsidala'tliedistance. wilal 11hai thearet waaalld lit no. aath1a't' im ilraavt'tla'lit requltireada illtIha' lake 1til reachintg tahai i oit-Virgil. Bay.

Nfr. SIarl:ta.Woula lt ii ailgintg a thatal a lia'i'liialat'lit f'haatitial theareAatmliral AimPIr:,\. It woutlad, as it is jnta'iala'al, taa la tia. l ia' Th auiailsa tat t'e river

would have, tat lae dive'rteda.Mr. Mt xa t.t.r ax. lIMt I sliiatld tai iak it. waautldh laIikal\ taa till tita againl.Admtiiral Am NI I. It' fit ativar waerea laett twiits lal'asa'lat couarsae it 1"a*01la4. laoit that is

not what is taitl a sa'at..Mr. Srmailula a. What is thn' aistititi arrass ttiara fromti the taketat flit- Paa'jia'l Oca'aulAdhmiral Ammit'm Fromaii \%hat is knatwna as Vi igia. Bay. bty a'itIhar thlt- Rioa d14l Ma'dio

or thea La~jas raantet, tao Britaa, tall thte Pac'ific (tlha' Rita del Medaio anal Lajais roatte unitingabat i alf \%ay laatwati l t e anr anad thia lakae), thet tlimtanita will lit' abaoaut ltij miles4.

I calt yaaairattut ital tiaow tta mapNaa. :3. 1 mityay i tha irst place ill this connectionthat itax igat imni a stream like ti iii thae troapiacs wauatla lit' absoaatetly imapossihbae wereit. iot fori tha' iiiterventiiati f'romi tlooads. Th'lis great lake of 2.800 miles of sturtfaceserves as5 a rug hatoat' sta t hat Iflit' rise Indl fall from daa oaa svr lgt hntoac, tlia, wratar-sha'a tat this ragitan ttawtn tat the San C'arlaas Rivert'l is vary smnatl. Thist'xpfluisioli [ iniiainhg tall the inap], textaeunding fraom fit- laiakt Ittit're thie canal properbegints, is t halitlaappr paart tat ft-a San .luaii River. It woauld lae implraovedl by alm. l ttwhat I was galig tit say is that flit- imparov~emeant aof tit-' lakae anda the implrtovemienlt otthN is tanita, leavitig attihyv abtilt 62 miltas (it tanahizatiat, would tost about $1,00,0(K)less thati it Naatrla taka tat raill a wta'r satpply lay, the Panamna rotea, wtich even thenwoaula l hat rathe-r ata imiper.ftet snpajay. rhe smiryeying officer's thtatgt it sufficientthe first season aaf their aopaerationts tliera', anal it w~as said tto tbe at that time very lowwater; tatt viaitinig there the sa'caard se'asoin, it was foutntd that tlia, ('agTos River wasreduceda'a tat a maere rivulenht. That, however. would oactctr only ata'asiaaially, anad it. woutldnot aextenta aavtrmoutra' thlar. aittonthi. probably, ill aniy year. taut stilt it wottla l ie a seriousembilarrassmant.

Hlerte [intlitatig] yaau se tilt' part lying be'twaen the molauth aof the river Sant ('a.'loanal (irytowil, t hat is, laatwtan tlit- Atlantic anda the hake, foallowinig ill general the11no tif the river Sari Juan.. Yaou tahst'lva that t hetse lpeaks iIapalr il ft-e pileht nearLarke Siliata, atr aboaatt seven irila's trat r e. (~toma ii. As I saidl before, at fuarlhar e'xplo-ration of' file Rtio San Jttriiillo indai('atept tfiat that. ]like can hie gone into without amaterial or, inala't'a, any increase taf the length tat the t'aial, anal with only 431 fe'et ele-Vation instead a'f 180. Now ytalu See [ laying a cane upon the mttp] haiw a straight linewouitld runl between~ the Rit San Fmatli'tco antd this point. if it is found to be practi-

INTElROCtEANI(' Still' ('ANAL.

catitle. atl tad i I I t'iniisi' is thait th tic'iotca shll hIIe re'lia'at~n ett dlctcrni ne' whlet hit it kiPractical or iceat.

Mr. Hu tYa'ttts, 'That couttttry all Ihrccgla there' is wild ; t and Hninlhiti'aI. i" it miot IAcliairial AsittKN. Etatirely.Mr. IIar i '.And ttia'.x ,Iira'clAdmuairial Aam t':N. Ia vNs ea'ca't 1, th lIn' aid a-'aaele giat Iivira'r tiaii go' Ii tiiil It.Mr. Ta 'tiN ua. I ave )oi bee iaan a hicitgi that reg.ion ta irSefft'Adanimrl A mtma N. No, sit'. I hiave' lcc'an in N iearagaill iltlo alinig th is line.Mr. MAICTIN. Asoina ii' t liettiaaalters of' t his coaiti tec maty hat. 4' tic gc' dowv thlerie ill

l6e ecurme Wotali r itavast igat ions. I m1t ill ask yoH wheiither t he colilina ls laialtIhfaalAdmiiral Ammrxa'. I laeava thbat th lat ake region bet weena thll' ha;ka anda thle west

coa.0 is its hteialthly am atay Part oft the Saint hem St at es. Th'is regioni [iunaicittitig on thetaaP] I saaslict is le.." aeal thy: intdaeed I knoatw thlaat it is t't'aeaa inforattion derivedttromn thlo.s.' whli o a' cotain iarat ave knowbw otftea t thae cauntq atmy: l aftAer poin get up to1

- i ith ii at' of tie Saa( In s tilt, cit try is haealthli. Tlh is lower Pca rt haas a riaitif'allof'87 itrlies or atacci. thi o-atc-slil as a %Viti1li. has ia lit tie taaI'i'o thani Ml iniches. I suit.post' that froti Sanu I'arhicsialawaa it is stitiai'whtat tiialtlii'r thant fit Ia'ltataaaa tegicit, bautI sititala regard it am ana Wealialthly amtatatry.

Mir. TuH' n it D:a Iesaa't tili-. yellow trvatr Prteva il t Own all thlec Ii ttAaltiiul Ammx as. NAM. It isn a sagtthrfAct that thle yellciw ta'veranii' t' lias Preva filed ila

Nt';at'agaa, thiattgl it has a tileareda tao statat''siiglat e'xtenat tin tilt, 1stilimits fit Vl1113,a1a3,0tta1nie act twa' iac'aasiaiis. It as rat it' ra ri'icalamkahli' fact t hat, ina tt, ditf'eret t e~ loriat ionst a~at haive 114ta1 tacaic' thaiaagtr C eutral Amaer'e icaH titl i tia aat Ilta, iel tttt'ri fromisiasa'. Ihog lataliattareals havet'c beiiet then' at a t ilic.

Ma'-. ha' cIia aaNS. Is that lke ftull byv sjn tgs irl. sar a i ttAdmaeir'al AMwti-. It laas a ttt'ic iaiati italicitt lat,0ttit fret :bati oti clarsa. thet'e

Hoiast Ill .a coiatasiilafili'l, tit cit* sit-iatgs atlso.Nia'. li' ataN' dot a l cai ll it I lake fl by sjit'iaigk (it ai']I]# t'il let. surface

AihAjira A ammmN. I slat d cata a naii t ha' "tts cit' its oattr I.' a caciai tg t'cia sttrfteed~rainaage'.

Mrt. IllI* It'ittN-. 1', thetr'e taxl coisiliabtiv nistan ftaall catastal lit. thaatAtitti ic Am mI.~ Tlhei aist is tHct moriei thlati 5a teat.Mr. Ilut nt'ttNs. XVlI-at is thriablith aif tiac Itaki at la -u uatc'ifAdijait a .XAmi':. ItN man~t dilitli is tti thlana latt 6W.t I WWaItai hat.v icuattiolt(iaa

thtat at is prit'iaail tic i'iaistn'wt a latin at C astillo, %vijit xticil tmatintain that' lake at.a4 tnaic't clilitl act' 107 feat.

MNI. I I1 t1 atI N,. I Io a f i t cuIl%% ayIllitig(I at it ca'a'ct' ait l v'\tI att fit' t hat tah100.iatl '

Adimtaa~l A 't tt". I atv i' lua tao tilai- ncrthearaa Patt act' theLi'lke, atac thehaitit' L-0tita'I tv is ataae oft' tht- ri nds tu t" aatItiatt ifAd I haave' cevera meeta. I ha% a' laimite'd oiver it,~anda I ktac'at thbat 'cgitii :alittt ( laitianialga atwl Cltliawlit tiand I ama alliti satra tMatYou gi'tt li'iai'a it' yoci sawt it woitall t'eganc it am it t'iritiing 'iaanta'y I" lit.' aia.

51t% i1nII' iNs. It is ai (icittty (tatll liat'~gnicailtaatal ('itlatjtAdiala Veryt:N much. t~tl sit.Nt'., iltat 'itts. 'Thley rtaisa' th l test coiffeea theta', (If, they Ht tAditnl AammN. Quite its tita ai ha Coista Ifilua.Ma'. Ilut'i'CttNrt Is the a'hiaaatitOltitltat t1111l13111 SaVii that it'~ga' tieA las o'Oitlil 1a'calia'

Mly ga'ti a' tip that ?

in'1oMaeio, and all ilia'aiigh those Cetal .\ainc'iCHan State'S aildt('iiitt't'ig ill thl'c

Adiraal Ativiat.:r. Wela'l, I think ntthitng %,%tbal Inet.cllt it.

Llled to .tabtttuiah ai ailli ' t 1liii, anad so t ' a'. its it'.si built iv.s4 ark.' courttit''atill t hen

Nila. Wh't'aN..~'att cltt vittlitk it a't cliii' iN'a' a n d ttt that t','giota.

it tqqlit'c Icy iiIiatus, its eitltira't with Ca(JliftorniaAdtitiml Aiama t,. Well, the lct'tcla('t ittIlie twt t'igiitts art' very clifthati t. .11ital I Wociltd

Ma'. lirt IitI.NN. I t'et tIc t lai a' intticia] iii abtitdtic's.Mm. rifti'tN . Is there atay itgiaai'ar itt this aity whit has been'a actutally. etag~arot ini

intakiti them-c surve'cys, atnt whaiia we aiibi have' hut'hari thai couaaitteeAd naral Aht maCN. Ves; It'. It..& Meaita (it ran teil out aill about the technical ahttils.

l1 W ta duty at thai taavy-yaa'c, atnd wotdtd lie ialiy tat appeal' before the crnttaitteoat anly titte.

Mr. Saiaftlc It a. This rotec [ indticat intg ca ia' tti] il ajears to fallow a streant.

UI'lAi;t" 'EANIf' Sn iI' (CANAL.

Mr S N .. i' i. ~it mwcee~' Te i~'rhat -tir-;&III!Admiiral A't'WN%. (111 Nid t&1ce thle 1icceoth eel' tihl' S-111 Cllt he'.Mr. Si %'eLI:re e. Whalt t 1re'am wcid him h4 seeAdmtiratl .Amtl%. 'I'# San .lo w'e'et calli 11,e' Ifi uielit 6~:. 1110.Mr. S i ~~ e Weu lil It het leeekede and dame d fo'eAdhmiral A ClEN e'rtaio l. Mr. Nit-tioval if, thle 11,%l Nr fe~'ee.~ ine all tell .%ml ;0Tl

'01011t thItese' N-4eltiiie'.1 i I ei I-t. lit itii0l1' the etrv' .Mr. WN iniri .l r Aclinir.e A ninii. pou l% Ii at I ieIait 'itfieier~r'.'i

the U:nteeI Statfce (Noel .lilicy.r~Admniral A'mmvN. I '.Mr. W~itirTiiiiiN. ('III Ni ~tj i t' the, lute' tod lliietii 14 the\ '.tri e=vmAdmiral All m N. Ytes. -ir: I vallI gi~t po e~ll I ni od lltolt abhciit I ha:Mr. Wmrimioiiel . Call vlu fuirncish the' e-cetlitte'c with ae coipv eef the' graut iv ei oui.l

Admiral .%%ithEN. ii'.: I canaive~lc it fte iciti int thev ric'pert tot' the eceuugrcs%. It IIinFr, tilt.Mr. W' ilin in411(%. Tlhaot eeenec11.14.ik. If) it-el'ii liitenlant WvSe' Itts 111-4'i1. 1 (t oiler-

t'tattid. t rattstlrre'il fir otN e~ vl to 31,. i' I.phm4jie;itl hie' assetittle's. I4dnei ral A pite Yi'e. It i- a 'e'rrut Itistiry-thet part (if it'-lciit tt,it u gi\ eii tie

ii and I badl it vo'ieed '114 hil ttue htad it I tanslatedI, and I %i ill i'i'iild it to yOlt. "Mr. Wji i'ru , Call F 'on u i nt'irnt ii he iiiit te'i how. inidc'r that e'ence-siecn aitd

the arrtiuge it'llmI itoatil' be\ 'M. Dei Lem-sej mtid bis tesgoi'tte. he' lerechctes to ilistrihIot4_'the Oi tie'i'li ( if the steik *

Admeiral Ammv-4. fi e say- that it bloneigs to hinm antehat he %oncit have anything to410 with the erig-inial i'oite'eslionimt:4 in ot her wocrds, that hie ltimt. hatve it all ini his eiw)WThands, miid hie sliuoti' what Mehemiiet Ali told himt, iiaitte . t hat it' in any gru'tt e'iutcr-pise~5 there was titere t hanit iti imani there were too mny:;'

Mr. W 1111 iitN F. I 1have4 --een it stated in the' ilit'i Juafeers t hat hit, 111141 atwivied.at given imiver ief shat. Ioe tee l'uiited States and a givi'e itnbetr to the Britisi

Government. i ceert ain niubetr bhig retained bcy im. pre'sonobl% feer his e'olleigut'ee iu

Admiral A mmmx:. fiv' lililivi' fertieliltl ill PariN a paer eahleci Lt' Bulletin die('axate Intt'r-Iieanijuc, leut I hav~e si.e'n nothing ot' that kindly in it. I suspiet that lieWould be well )leam-4d if we shitell tattke tll the shitres aie let hitti Ittanage the c'xtte'r.Prilie ; I think vie %oVied d be glad if' we would mitehcrilie all the money hie would like to

Mr. WiuiiiN. Ij ItII olee'aniitee iiidt-r a i'harter gratntede fl anfy Eutroip'ean gto.-i'rntneit I

Ajdinirel AmmEN. TIhere' ati re'ncral laws iii Fracie wich permit the oerganizationorl eboucptueies by the filinig eef certain papers, and I think hie ocrgan~iz'atioen is foermleedit) tat tIy.

Mr. 'WillyrneN. e ei ~ whe'ther hie las loriteee a e'eettjany i11etilt thosegeneral laws ?

Admiral Ammi.N,. I diet not, I kiceiw that, according to his advertisemeent, the bidswe're to haive been olceuel be'tweim the' 5th and 8th (of August. He opened his bookslin this ecunitry and cpit the e'icitite't and in England, and after a given length of tinehie closed theie, stating that the mt.criptioum, were insufficient, and that the personswho bad stutisribed were' tit liberty t4) withdraw tlte 5 per entt. which they hadl beenreqjuired tto pay .Nott sublseriitugi. 'The shares were 500)francs each. and a payment wanreeigredlof 215 frattes, p'r share oct stilscribitig.

rWitrriORN-. HOW~~ ehie it happcle'n that. the' congress , so-call'd, asseliihed inFrance instead of in Amierieca hely what agencies wits it.C broth ght ito existe'n'e. andw~hto determtineflte coonet'nt parts and the character of that congress I

Admniral Amms:N 'I'lie' in-'nhe'rs of the congress wore itnvitedl, as I understand, fly M.D e~ Lemese, utntert thte jetroeiage' ef the Conunere'ial Geographical Society of Paris.'I'e Gove'rnme'nt of Fiance, cef eiirse, had no relation to it. I never saw the invita-tion to our guovernnme'nt, tinder whlic'h I wall icstroected to go abroad. Wheti Lieuiten-ant Wyse was ini this e'eiintrY, aboueet a year ago, het calleel upon me, ande said that heWecithl lee iletimi'd toe see' the Peresiedent. I said that I would be pheameel to pirese'nt him.'The Presientt r'eceiv'ed Its. llnl Lieutenant, Wy-se itnqutired whether our goveerninenthad re'ceivee art, invitation tee sende delegate'14 te this coem'(s. The Presient said

,ym.Lieuitentant Wymi' then asked whether it was the inte'ttioin of ecir gove'rnntenttee se'el anly de'le'gtates. Th'le lcre-idenit re'plie'd hit hie Itai not mnadle itu his nmiind onlthat mijei't. I remiiarkee thatt it ste'el1 to mev that the inftormattion that weA Iadwvouldh he of great vtehte in) IIce' del'usiecn of the question, tiud thaet I hteije'e thledele'gates weolld lee Se'nt. 1.ie'nteItilit Wyse proioti'e that Iland motte octhe'r navy mian,Comnmandler Se'lfridge, I think, shoutild be sent. I ohjected, savitig that I hail been(Mle Oif the 'cnuntissioen on the jai't eel' our gov'ernent to inquire as tee the )craf-tictL-hility and comparative aelviutitge's- eef the' diffe'retnt routes, which was a retiseet why Isholild neot lee' Rent. utid. iiereil e'r, t hat it sectiee to tme to be it qutestiont to lic' dealt

INTEHOCHANIC Mliii' (ANAL.

'with only lios 'ery able elngineers'o. and I waso nof all t'ogiteor, arnl, thertfuro. I hopsKithe Eoverltinl'nt W0tulti 11111 V-1141 Il. 'rlitre -vias 120 ftithetrt 0'oylj 'f'0wtfi lIktetwomLiout0Dant Wysto anti the Presidet'o. I'Vo then It-ft.

Mr. Wit'isot~t. Ytou and Mr. Mo'nov~al ando Lit'ntimint ( oC n il(oltP i C oiiderSetfriile we're apilintitt4l, I believe.

Adnrai Amlmi-m No. Thoe So'o'rotary ot Starte "'.nit ho'e lioigh I it 11iii jotil lt Ihat Ishould go. I grav' hinm themest rt'atozs whielh I have .'IIO'IIitilo'o.iio tna ooitoai~erltozalon1om iogaiost it, bll When1 fite Stated that lot' thought it important that I Khotuld

goI, aidI woid. that I 110hail ' I-it) n the erv ic't otf tego o'rmoutt ttu Itoog to fit-o linomfor ny proo ra eao any l iltY iliptnotd uponi met. I then rt'nurk"1 thui~! !vuh

itu1)ulol lt. ih ort thi Mr. Mt'not'al shtouold goI I saidt that I thtoittjh I iioierstootmilie suntiuc't very well in it general waiy, buti t Ihat 1 4 1114 loo i t ii11ket'i ll' tt'h i 1(21 exposit ion ofth tiat iter t hat wtoi lo boe I a4.o'oleir v: tha2 tfi li, p ro'e'nt 201 itoh ei t i in liiia lollatit our Views otoiht to lot' itl fill- tionism cof a v.'r al101. oig inter. altha lrt I kit'w liftone' better abl li t t1do it j taSt i' th U122 r. Meo'ito' , :I go'itlliait off i II' itt tt'grl t antdof very great a~biity, andio tho' mani who fuiat jo made t lou t to sllrve-'t ha lt were'worthy fit' compaii~rislon. natme'ly. ii-ttI of thoe Nio'airayita ;11d111 itt If flie ;titir Ititie.At wy imitionue, t hen, Mr. M,1ttitwil 'Am ro slit : trtoaui. I 'iid to te St'trt'tar ft Statvthat I thought t his so implortanot a matter that1 1 %%as tiot wilinrg to loret'i t tolr irifor-Ilation ill wtwtls thatha liuit i itti g. andt I O1kk'ol Ilti tto) i ior.to oriougi to lookover what I potptosed saying, and I satiti that I wvond Iw .e Il's' to itoIt.i i l

way that lie might suigge'st.Mr. WimmrioR-4. InI 21 ve'ry brjief a I vio it -et 221 ilji' folrmation i f Ihat con1 -

grew, the wit hority wich Lortought it ito* st'o 'III t121 he' lurlos is tal iigitogether. Vt/loon tilt, tColgres'.14-II t ttle o te oo111l Ii". o.elte' iton of r-flls..4 1 ,,a~ 112 sbasto did the meiotorm porooteed' to vtt'? Waos it tt1pi ile lt' basis of tilt interest toff theirreejoeetit gtvternmnits, tor' wits it simply aI . tott' tof' t'e memblors whto hapllpened' to beparent I

Admiral .4mmI:. 'rhe' v'otoiitg 11i2 o roelat hlti tto ll-0 ittto-reth aof the 1;e.Vo'i ~ goY.ernmeitnto. Ytoit will *et't in ito relott whaut I htado ttom o ftilY o itvtoomoitijt tt'110 ci t'oigt'Osi.It wts foriett minply am M%. Its' Lo'sst'1 s 'htme. Ilet hall char1igte (if it. I never saw anytof the initationts. bll I know that lhe flitl issttt a11l in1vita? ti to C'ommndrter Sell-ritI~e, whot as thlon o'tonitding a vesst'l tot' wart abroojil, allot Wh lii3~tttlt'of10to1 thatiivtatioit.

hm.Wit'c tt t ~ 'l't: it w as at vol nut ati meo'o't if ii av'i~''it vitiin who 'ati. to 'got heruplon the eall tot' M. Do'e oss'o

Mri. Wmm0tIi'Tit OI. Andt the' g-rt't hooo~ tot' thliose li'o'so'tt %'er t'renc~'toh so' itisis?

Admtiraol AmmiEN,. Yes,. sir.Mr. 'WmtrrttionE. lFr'omi whait Pmto saow. w2s' tor wuO'21 riot that int'oting tof go'iillo-men

tI that, Congi''Ss. 1t0' (21ilt'it. it wera'n'i2igtd miatteri. wAith a1 view to the re'si it that wasIiottall-V am('1rtiiitot't i1y its tvi e ra if o'iiitls ?

Admiral AmmvtN. I tliiik so.Mr. W1'1t'17FitiiNE. 112 21 iMilitarty taipe na21val 10tt (It' %itw, A hat aire th lie' 10" 212 .gt'

or dimatlvaittageof( tleo control Ity thet Unt

iteda Staites (ot' a o'21na1 2t'rtoss f lit' is't limtitsAdmiral Ammu:N. My opoiniton is that ini a grea~it work otif this kitnd there tsltootlo be

the very hest undeorstandintg hadl with all fll' gr't'at ptow'e'rs lotrtien r2lty, antai c 2itlywith tihe itofirita' powo~er's thait is ft sAay, there' stiott boe an torte'rml anolioo with the'itnfterior powers, stiol its Perut. (or Cltili. orl Japan21t, otr ('bina, thait at V.ioltio (ito tt' theneutrality tof this t'totil ton i( h rt'tt tot' aniy nation wootilti tdeprive' theit ptow1er violatingor attemtptinlg to violate thIisi neooirality tot' til tim e off' the sports of' those touties8.'Ther'e is it dlocunteiot, tof whih'h I laeiro o'ligot ytil gento'tleme 11t C'opy, putbllished, Ithink, in the F'orty-fifthl ('ogre's. first st's'oiiooi, friom wiv chol ytou will lcarn the views oofMr. Clayton. antd oftothet's lie 'or t hull,. tot fit' t'l'oett thartIIo ooottout ftlit- hoit tself'with at veryoiner'ous litirdeu it' it dido nttt st'ok to forii that kin rof oi' 21iomititcial

Mr. W.imimmtni'. M~y itttioir'y w~as aritltsst' tot % .ml r';tliv'r itl 'Oiar trro'r 'iS4 21itaval oithio'tr, andtifit' i noitiry was. whether, it ytomt 1 jigmetit, litfok i ig at f lit' tInt'-s-lion froio a. iilitiary ronl ntavatl ptoilt tot' view, thteite woonl itoot fto da~nge'r that :2 caaltacross tile ist hootii, itt mtiteIr hiow t'ly 'tor ini wVhat gotodl faithI its 1201t tality w'o'2tguarrateeds' bytotle it'121tis. wio il bliIiable to bicoitt inl Airit'2O'2 St raiit tot'G1i Irilat',tot' Dariaollo'. or2 Ittitiwe ot' Sito',.. Whil'i Wooiiloi lot' 22 twiat2I.I' oft oliqp'tet ill I IIIt' t'ti tlootwet'u th fi itonts1 w~ho'e t'oitit(VN- t A-01t 4 wo II ~SS tilitOligli it ? Vio'ill tile t11Io-t1itoni

titjttthtsttltlot t.2020 2kuhg21'' t~igAmiit''ca " v'iewo ot it. wooultd it noot. iniyolir jotigillnott, h e NvW44 'st' 1 til i'esnt 'y. Int oroier to pr'ev''et nt irc c'~tilict'i 2201'. tforthe Giov'rnmenit'fit' t' lit'- I 'tii tt'tI S tat's to vt' troiol that tra ial I

Admliral IAmmil-:N.'l Tit''t is not tIitnlot that1 we 4liotilti have' the move'rnitiih i oi'o' 't i Kit. 'lT'e canal would ol t2020't ouilr two ettasts tot'tO'ir: il. hotqidios t hat, wo' htavean entiioriis ftoeigrn commelnrce to gro through it both ways. Brll ini that 'oittttitiI Wish to tilaki' oneo folisrvatiton. mwhiet' is. tht~ until xvvt haive a material forco' ado''

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

qitate for the purpose it would lbe idle tund a sourve Of weakitemt for ust to under-take to assert any particular control. I amt satisfied, however, that We can make avery strongr tiavy at a very small i'ittt i'otttpartd .-ith the cost oft the other great naviesof Ona Worid. P'or the Past light ori teti years I have tudiedi this iluemtion of maineranks very thoroughly, anid I ShtouldIIa ltleaseMd to lay before thIis comititjttee' the infor-tmat ion that I have obtained (ptt that stibjeut--tiot mterely tit he rmtdu and ill-digemittedviem s of at navy tituult, litt %it'%h 10'iiti hazve tidergoni' tilt helotwst scruttinty andcrititiisnii by Mr. 1,ettlituil, Whlt, ill InVy jildgli'tt.1 iN tit- i'bli-St itaVal (con11rUittOr WehAVV ever had, and Whot I think Is iit, ivr tian to Ittild sueh a rant fix would berequired for that ditty. For my pat, I thlintk We shiutid itot talk about dofending ortont rid ing thitan mtt ii % i Ita a f i fore adequtate' to dto it.

Adjoutrnetd

-,TA FE.l:N:Nl OF AIDMIRlAL A.MMEN CW'NTINI El).

NVAHINlo", 1. C, Ebrary71".'t'r-di'tliral Amt N .1ai i atptiand titfiri tilt-' eoittittet'. Iii said :I waas ked

\ ist4.rtbtN by Mlr. Wh'itt Iltotiui its tI" mHat *'tet' t h oinzittg of tISt tattal would have

certatlin tjist it 's, it si-ents it) lilt-t'Ihat t lt-t'i %%as a sit 1 piiswd priobiuilit y of providinga d'iqits t6w a aital t ittgi ttit ii bis iiroaits thIrotglt Mi-xit-nt id othIer ter-ritrit'-m it) th i l t(' of t ilt, etittl. I'Tis I wi ould regard itItk iorntieica.lilt itt1 any ' V11011tt Of

t1ttg, and (m ii irm oi'it gi tIitdo-pe io tit't'il It it treitvbtts.in It foei sts lou

to.ibit il tttis li Th dl-i i es ft d tI'tit tti'kthe dsa t 'u it' itns itltti g en ithu e llpenit

titih '.it Tilio ilisigi tt its iy trg in tt ltiitl nilhr nuit g') wew No t t anl risitAlulin t t loinsvfot tiIt' titt loid'i i'lt i t tt au t torial paini' .iittai orits, tioalion t il Iiisrts ti14N 1 ast lt'iiltg rp l,-huiaep ifi o i e rv eyil

'it (i t At tIM AN. Vit I t tt tt it it 'inti ltti'ise (.114 d vh an ht rast .11 itlt en ly wond ,,ateit atat fliuti g.ilen te tan o ~thcr dithjvit i il ti t t r tg a iti tiei'i pnav y usv onb

'1'ltt Iy h, ii'v Im-f iti trakhlntfaiune tdn forth aloillmm rs ('tt tiitti ii! t'ttialtt".nnu tv ltp m i t mmri-iu(n m

imw ii we do not d* iv ein Otini ng nut ligttiii wiHt I a' WVit i'd I~ (titaiil an righattoii

li t'i, iii t tn ltik itut Iil t'ioitini itf P& VIitMha tiiintHi'tW ts'i i t titM~ whetherHtAlr ci tie s %ttti'ld it uirtti' itt w 1ttulm'it a maoter ial tite ti mak',e tu i~t andm

Thet t'1IMN rhtt'i tdttxtitli'asit vni'iot'l, t s tinii' ittl iit' ahetiadtvanigetuitturl lien-

INTl'I?0~CEAN 111i1' CANAL.

efit It all nat ion.. propti onodtl their i e'onitria I inlte'resits, whet Iher Iii'."ive ir acit ivte,and to innintain thlis in it'. intgrily . This. oif i'our'.t' would require the %el.ectionl ofthe Ilinxt i'totliil l'l'tle, an1d woulil not pein'~it ft( le'lvyinig elf inrvahonabh' tolls, orof tWIoll lynd a liho'a I4 viiijii''.till to iaiitiL, lwi'r I ng ill IIujdif thel dv'IUp& a tlld difiicullies. real and pssiei' which exi'.t.

It. F',iyw. 1 Ait pou P% Pr in~k.' lip1 ;o;r li nil as tol what a1 rva, inaldi' toll mn thisvanal would be4 f

Adiira Amrit.%. Vi". I re'galrd &2 '.. ;i-Onnlamt It.l.Mlr. Fitty'r. No nitte twha'ljt fle- size' 01 th In'e'm4l might b,Admiiral A.tt:.I mnean $2 till, gross tion.Mr. l'F:. Vim womli! rharg' I he mauit' toll to a Sm~all s.choer' ill prleol't ionl i'. y4)I

Would toi S hilp or s4ivi1i4'!Atlsiirl Amms~ E. IQ ;v n in ;l at"il I uimb 1. tniki' thn' ililaeunient i14ts lilt, hi'jlltre'nn t of tn uagn' 11 s.e'e' 1,4In in.' hat allr iwat llo'v th Ii.ls miight hIW '.,'ali' in other

INortils, t hat the4 llri'l4'It vil tunte i',o tIiiliirl' SAf fnr e Ii ol lit ton w114~omll lrt am ly,after tliat' eOf tA~' iji y' oiars, bie Alonitlvil ort t ripiledt, n111 hi' i'll ni iglt he' re'ducted

Mr. 1"uv' . H av e yon vver ('alvll atle thel- I jiin' 111:1 t an1 intir-o,'i- nil' tam. I %% nld savein t hie Viygi' oe(f a1 sliIng'%S~v f'4i'

Admirml AMmI'n. Thi',4i' Inh~ In,' aAlalte i' fun inl nIv hoo k. of %% hit.)l I haivehandled v'ili.' to the tanin ilitte'.. I wottn sIa.y that1 a va nli I by Ni i'1i'jglii. US, Ii ilillaredWith lt'r by 1 141n1an nmd1 h Iii' alii nl Vaiatlage'.n'. lin I re'.nt articli' which I wrot4efor ht'l North Ameiricaun I''t i.'w, I allud t thaI it mailtter vi'u'* pant htivi rly. -Ar. De~Lesmsta jlk' ., thoug th lieig litly. oft N-iiing'vi'ssils ve'ri'live'r a whieI., in fattt, two-t hirids (If tillt' tonna~jge liitwei'ii ill I ii'iimt .11141 l.1,11'1 i ii ll W o ithler' in sail ing-vem-

dlod~ges til- eiz 'ilnal. aind dile." So ve'ry' prli v'l , I nuse' ti'l voyage' th though t it'Ui'd ?'I'n nil thlroiugh. ii 'phe Iw 3b'lit'i'li'ti it in,' ilat igi'ti ,nu in th li''inter,Wh'ilI inl tin' 1411,h111Tn' tln~si' '.iS n, e ail'114i1 itet'1 t lll .n Si that thr lni'' i,. gttit reasonswilyh~ sauilinig-V.'isttl thel lint goi through till A'u", ('anal. I ink '27-isail1ig-vv'ssv'ls id i go.through it last i'jr. ']'hill would niot hi'l thn' vase', however', %%i itt flit' Nit'nragia Canial,

to till' an~iililit otf t'iiigti Mat It e %et'1 art uall lvalrrii's. 1Wittt in its ii t4J111tiniaIAlini AMMEN. IQ- hIiI is thI thv 1 liltiUl ti slilaviil'it oiI t"t' is4 thei 4:1)t'mt

andt be~st 11141414 of' nn'nasiliv'nt.

of going urntul ('1114 Ilorn

If, for exanlipll, it Sail ing vessel left San F't' isc b''t'illtilil for 1En roli e' wli ~old ce ir-

ging Unit rl'tining. halve fail' wiinil by) simly making at lift]i(' &-ltii. It' slil' wws1bouhntd frot northern Chlinia, Ori tilt' Illjifiiilil ISlaJIniS. Ol'riq~ii Slht V t0liltI Ie:'t' ft'w~indls inch way bty~ making little' ile'totr.

savt' ini illsirjlii', antd slit' %volibl i nvoit th l'Athl t il risk it giti Ig an n i'tnily nn 'a;t o'so) that the 114'ayint't of' 1 toll oif $'2 on IlN' gi'tis tli illit lit' - 1 rvll' 14 sav i tig. 'Ptt

Mr. I' 1NGLETOIN. Vt lint is aboutl~t thle itvt'i'ge to~iilgi' itt* til lt Ihtgvst vlas"; (Itt,''t'

that a ri' likely to IllsN thlroutgh til l iil IAdni rl AM~AIN. I ivtje! t ha t dIv' lalrget's Vtss'Is XVt h be114 itt Iloin 4f111 i .1504 I'i't in

toils4. Bid I stispltt' that te i4.ager is's tlf v'esels thla t wttuld ipn'." 11hrt ugh thlit

M.'. SINtiI4.E~N. TIhat wonl 1.1anki' th l oll upon at 3,t l0l-tetl .sst'l ~t~itlAdmliiral AmmM N VM'5; it~ is an t'XIIt'n'uii 'Wonk, Ilit fij(-i' tlls. wonl no ltt remiintlI ilt

Mr. 8i.tuixa'roNx. Is it y'our tqojeltn that tht'rt mi'ti1ld lie an hilitll t itt I il'ti4lt't.4 lh0jntby thet canal mltt'i'ft thljust ily 11h4 b"Hllinilg otf it as a p~ri ijIltf entt'l'jtr1ittt'

.Admiral A~tm'N I havt' ot tll-i least tdoubit of' it. I bei'iit'v -i' t 1o lt eth ti.r i n vvst'ment ('all b11 iniadt thlanit sliiilcnll thl'tlLygl Nicaraigua. Tih' rt'eso wily I say Nica-ragua is, that I think the ('anlal biy that rtoute c~an he bulilt at halt thtt owiist tw 401 ifPanamia. The reasons of thalt lult stated in this book of tii'e, anld wetrie stated ly tileat the Paris congress. 'What I said before the Paris e.oug't'ss hits Ilee ill po0'ssessio

INTll:?EA CF:A,\14' SHIIP (CANAL.

(t if Seo '14. .vili of St "ate. cecel I %a- c 41elt. Illifiloe'et, Ilk Vtceith% ace> poertio he;l'e it as Ile'might sngm,4"'et b ilt flie seteehr % pletio .".o icenoolil'at ceI of wlcct I said at tie Pa'ris'Ongr'sm. cando t ie 're'lt' I reogard'e thbat Isact as mti apjereimil Iiee hiis part of tit% joer ta-tiou (of thll- else'.

Mr'. list%(,"'ee~ ,~ee \till v'ae' it-;dle -.tit t heed te' a''onro'lf. or' canc yon rifi'r sliteO"tltti'e' ft .111 Aloiiee ig 1ale. :eiic-eliit el ei ei''' likely teo jenos through tlls~ 'cLarial ?

Aelceirce AMMEN :. Ye'".: lice- l'erie e'eegreme'e ee'e'oe thlit i t wcooilel lee' -.OWM,IM toelie i uIte'ee'lait '..011(1.1141 tel,4 theat \\imelel lee' eIi~crted fru~om oetlher sopur.t'sm, Other calcula-I ioene. io'le' . ecu'srm cege. 0'die i n -st icoaite eel i-eec *l.ttlltl,l1Jl to 6, ,M10I teens. That%as Ili th ie l ii ccc1 lees Iceteelle 10 Daevi" ccid eelhe'rs hln I l'e'sl ce'rtaini that, we mayI very

wellI re'l ec 'I.olIt$.OIm eil, le1 steirt \%it he. and ietat it will groew very~ rapieliNMr. l it-i Il". It sv'iieo t, li I lic ' 11 'e1te WV eo'e t101v aStatelecent thlat till- toll-

bi.e IIe tie', t'ike' 4 'ctcl I's Ii lil till' ceiilitlely 14.' M ill fill th'Ilet ?%v yv'ari':t&dieiral Asmv-t,*. It heCmo leitie ce1ti.14Tr. Hil. ie ats. Ho 4ee (1 ye eou c'e'eit ieee'TiltAdmiiracl A T N hloe' eail k' ncot founid tye tt Van1i't OIL-ea w% it was at tirme stotiheehl.

'Thaen thlere' hIes 1ee'e'i il .e 11e i l i eviee' ils MaiIioeg-h1i llS %% Ilitele C.Lielieet WAe' tilt' (analproitall I\

The~ 'CHIA . N. C01cle1 sec lieg'Shleies plass lereesigh this p1'eled eateal ?Admeiral A mmv.-.. The Ni'car'cgiia C'anial aiimil Ile ii nit'lN f'ecvoracleetee saiiling-ships4.

It is ilk a regioieel' pe'rhee't inl tr'ade-wices, while the P~anaa Canal io Ii a region, ufPorpeot ene 1e411uS. YeOU Will see' that equestiocatiheeate'i byv Lie'ttciant Maury yfmarago. and Icy ('citaiue P'ink el' the royal navy.

Mr'. hi uie'ues. Yolk it) ot think that tic- catises that have Ie'es'oneh munenence (n1 leg Suez' Cacietl %a ecuici eolerate ill the saint, way oil the', Niciragua Canall

Admiral Awmxe':. Not itt call.Mr. l11r''l'ceeNs. Yeen 14ay tieit bout iNe'ot> -live mailing-v'spels passed Lierenigl the,

Sup Canial lat year IAdmiiiral AsmMI'N. That is all.Mr. JIu(iw' Ns. W~hant eeleetavhem edo 4eminerm tiil iipassicig through the Suez', canal

that would teejel tee lessen tile? comerce'' oin that cinal fAdmiral Acmmkx. Trhe sliffeuclty oenly applies to Liiiigvessebe; anid mailing-vessei.

;lire~ ablsobel'y incere'asiing in nuciherie under the Englishi flag inl the cotmiere betweentho East anid l'eirelee.

Me'. lit' t'(ctiNS. Arne sailiccg-vetimeIs taking away the carrying trade from ate'aners?Adcnuirai AmmYEN. rlhere is ail absolute inereae of sailing teetenage, althecugh it is

iceet very imarkede. It, is nce eer two hiuinred thioceeand teens a year.Mr. llUTCHN 8. Weinlethat beenugh teeactucally le'swen the tonnage passing through

tlho Suez Canal.Adtmiral Ameeoe':N I tiiik sto. Biet tbe (Capee eif Goeoed Hope is in :40 and Cape Uorwn

is in 54' Thim would lbe i kind of ecl'de'a for sail ing-vesseIn, and they would xcott'as" a-reeeil.

Mr. CONCCER. Ini sailing frout New Orloans for the East Incdis there would be OWisartemcular aelvucteage, would there, in going through this p rposed canal?

Admiral AmmEN' Ye's; there would be an advantage in elissanee.Mr. COeNeee'C S~tarting from the antipoodesc to a given point, it makes no differeaex

wheathee' a vesmel gt's straight east or west, or straight north or month; the circle isthee', saice'f

Aedtmircal AmmEN. ]lilt what we have to loeek to is as to where. the land will permit015 toe goe. That limits tice qhue'stiont oft' tcoeeu'rse oef a vessel.

Mr. (ee mui. But, takicg twee points oil the euateel opposite to each other, if ao'irve was muele to) tile' fiftieth degree cef south latituee', that would be a little shorterthan following the eeuator, if there wts iee lendclk the way?

Adtnirh AweMEN. Where you have the equator, you have the are of a griat circle,aceid yeei buave r'e'ally ltce sehortte'st distetice.

Mr. XWuit rite clINK I wish yeou tee coeutincie youcr ste- - et ats tee the political and rucii-.decry aspiwts ofel' h'ic estiocn, ii which I feel mocere i e'st than ie eany other of its ag-lit'e' A.

Aeleel AmmiCCN. Slhonid those who have sue'rior ictueet ici the Suez (Canal, coni-st ruct this cical. Cite' qeestionc would not ne'e~ssearily lee its to econoniy of locationandteellestrecelieei, liit reelheri its to what the Americ'ans are aide to peay. Thatis to say~, tlect they weoll imposeee stelei teelis a)s tilc''ehooss', making it. only a littleijil'i'rieer illc e'-'e tee peimsiecg eecoiice CaeL 1Horin. le short, the' cattiel f':.etiLeaD' wouldseensl tite' itm'el I ci teeli-gectiere'r eel'thiN continentt, tee tlee e'xte'nt ofC eiir' uecoessit iem, anedtoir the' aelvctig&'ee' the Suie'z Cancal, It is ecielei'.it beet a canal so conditioned wouldWeork ale iniii' tee this country e:til be' eet iee reil bee'cie'it to anty ecee, not even to the6tekhle'rs; whilst ct eaned e'onste'ett'eol onl an eeonoic basis weeuldh he a coratnuoiadvantage tee sill inationis, hut a elisedventago te the Suez Canal and to the PanamaaRatilroadc. It W01ce1e1, in fae't, prove an aelvacetage to mie transeontinental railroadsH byg,-iving iccerte~eo % i lue to the gross prod elets ecf the western cacst, and by making the K

U I

INTEROEANI4' Slilt (ANA L. 11

pojaila mii'sft ht lastIn lrv aott m enl iile, t1111% nefr(Niilig 111w otterland t rai c andt ra flit . Ui elfI cit i e naa#-at attll)fljttlt. lj 11ii.' I 1llill-v.r ttlll' ofi mpo t it*- Iiltralityof t he vn on! and I ~rj.r5 1l Iiti cell lIiilllt . 1.t0il i ln ,~ exrat li nary .'xpeiow.yestertday I indicated ijiefliv thll fltilm A1( oI 144Il.., nit'! will 6-' 11aje;,v N toe luy th-fortrthe t ii 4contolittete sili fiftiM as I t lijok \% ill us.li.* Ilint lllitivie that I am nota tnlrli drealntr. Wh~i 1st t he' :tmotl, ill il imii ll oil'a viwnlll. wIiah ould na' hini tjW98~ hI eis Hls ol44 Wi' .!r 41141ttt :11110t~l113 f4till' 1M est comst. 414tr lot irld raili'oa4IWOUld 4nlbl. its to s-lnd aniry requ irvdil 11111. $if t et 11 11-c tt all, .1itipt at1 conqett c.ini the *eao with which w(' Voll( I4lill'iII i1t t id ! i'1 0A I ro ) n That voasi b~ytwaas ofi existing railroadt~s, wottilf not litriltit Aeli. .MIllll' tittlitt to hold Iirilor)tbere. If we were at wtar \% il(ri lli t NOt. o~f villrm-t weiol %eiiz at: lttold Brit-ish ('olttii atnd Camtilda. Thlat, I take' it. %% 4'Hl liI4'lllt't i i' 1. ,ok i tg attOe SiOji.C&o th ialk, iitta Utallti in tc.4tivl Iletitit 'it %iv\%. iltee itvt18 1.. 11 tlobject ion fto allowing Mr'. I I.v toIe t14, 14'll all till- 11141111-y he' ilay 11e at Lo o taiii.

Event Ihough he' tony 144htjtt alelwiiaJv de 141 1 .41t at o ektl.tls~ eIh aaagainst 114midle. it 11111.4t he l2.-4 t-et abtove *'n'a-It4'v'l, o Il fet iii excess of thle Nie'aragix"vanal: amd for' ieawsuiswichei t %ill fitle! ill tt la~t I IIlv lift .' N ol t ltlot'. iarticitlarivWiltt I have- Vt' tittl i l t lie slbtl-v't ) it will '~ 4 14 11 1414' i11111 zll ith 1 betticr 4'anal rg4Nicaragua. Te iiirwlldlea4liijeI111's il l lsalebtwe 11'ci~~ill U le-gionl 01' f'iil Wils. Looki Zig at it ef-l4lilllie;l Y. the,' lPtitaiait Canal hati 111 litrilini co~utjariso~n with lthe Nicaraguta ('anal.

Mr. IAJTCJINS. Whatt is titeMr abilut the' 'ltirvi' int '4litii loropoelsed Nicaragua C'analthat Mr. Lesserim speaks allotit I Hei stays tilit \A ifbI .hijs oft the size that will ti't- -istructetl, von cautnot tiake citrves ofsiiuthet'iit tadhl iti tile~n Nic~aratgua ( Cantal.Aditra) Ax.Nty... Mr. Mienova'l bust a practical, al)%oiitl' ku'itmledlge (of' 1t. ground,and he can tell you that thern- is not serious4 ditlictulty in having any % curves there thioi

utay be desirt-d. I milppose& it iiotilt lot- melre'ly a1 eptiet411o of 'li ll tlt oret million oIfdollars.

?4r. HUtTCINS. 1s thaLt 01ilet-iOn a incre irvtu tl'of the intaginittion ten the part ofMr. Lesse'ps, or is there stoilathittg in itf

Admiral A.%mMEY,. There' is only this in it :Thtere aire t%% 41 ir illre'j torte's- that tiihave to lit made with ain increamil radibusi bitt tio prac'tical I llic~ultY exists itt increas,hgthe raitim. Thtat is to may, that there is nothing in the topography tu prevent it.Mi. M"Hocal hasg ntade that at subject of Study, tktill I bhllit' you will' perinit hinl U)answer on that point.

31r. 'WnirriirlnNE. If I utile'rstoldI you~t vorerctlt- yesterday, voui stated in The .'utw~tof y our rentarks that, in your Judgu liet. Congress sholidd direc'tt all intlt'ltcit prat;-tical review olf the imthuntis stmrve.N s

Admiral A.Itjt.t. Prveiseli.I, Wmi~rrnonuic. And that that re'4it-w should bv. prelimtitty ltl aniy 'Ieitivv

WatopriI action on the part of the gov.'ramutit I4AImiral AmNEN. My idea is that we should not losw a moment, of time in doing it,for oevcr~1 reasons. t, chlairtn has ht htis possession it letter writteti to i1t1 by tK*editor of tMo North~ Anerican Review, stating that the great cry onl the part of' thoWon&s of the Papmatua Canal is titat all we want to dto is to obstruct them; thikt we

simply want to prevent Mr. LeSsops front being Ilcestl Certaitnly that is not iAtmy mind at all; and if Pallnma were the econowical poeitnt, and if Mr. tLesse-ps wore tomake a canal in an econtotmical Inauner, I would certainly give hint ty aid atl eo-operation. But I (Ilo not tink that that is s(o, peetda ~lnlI'tmd~iacmayingthebil prpard o th sujec, i whch sunuted uip the reasons, wity I thoughtwe oght o Jse n tite il utkitl Ilis rloc tio, even tholaugh thje relocation vast

Mr.WnrrnoNE.You prposd bll s nt (o t spak) in favor of one-4 route, avaganstaitthe, btt s fr Ie Pr~lst4of'detrmiingbyreview the whlole Ijtontiutt 7Vdtia AME es1ewentee w oiti.Tey are thle onily onesA that arc.really competitive. To Tehuanateltee route has8 seventh tiites the lo~age antd mtorethan double the atnottnt of exc-avation, with ati imperfect waiter-supply ; anti what

Supply it has has to come a. distance of trij muiles.Mr. Fn YE. How about the San Blas rotite,Admiral A1mrn. I do not think it required's an enlginieer to decide against that rette,

because thjat route involves the' excavation of at mlountain all fte way frontc PA-v4'ilj t4inine ntitese findt W1 feot below thte surface of' the oves'in level. No siuch work has everbeen done, and the cost would it siitmply entormou~ts. Thtat itittier witS (linsesed in theParis, congress by tbe ablest viyrieers-tijnne men-umd they sidt thait thvy 11i110telements to estimate the cost of Stich at tunel, blit that it wouid be sitluilly eu"orittolts.These nilountins; are no less titan two or three tltiiaid feet hight. Let uitS ptlposIthat they got in half at mtile or a ul, antd found sanul or looese earth, how could t heyitroceedi Thea, every miet, in a while, they would strike a source, and eve-rNytltitwould be washed out and the work delayed. Whevn yout conie to think of aoktgmtunnel W6 feet below tlte level of the ocean fnd of waking an arch to support if, 1he

I NTfEICI 'IC1 SH1IP (CANAL,.

bt'ite~44 44'*Itli'4 It44,. A ti li t-44 I a 4'~ fltsio 4 44 11611111I.1 it'oll. Cani 44 .444 4441kt. that in thewater Y

Mr. I1a It hat lui*'ii 1w.t4Ii thait yu call, has it 4.otAdim l Am mmmE. V11"4 1444 IMl' a4 141144 athIo in I lhe w14tI' pif yont have an ot~n cut,

bih en, yourt vou4 hav to414 144 14444kcan44 inverted 14rs-Ii. I adif th1a1t it it practicable,1but th hio qu4,'est4.ion jin it, i lllt ter i-i 41144 of i',.noti.

.%rt. IFitvri. Andl yet t his' route ha,4' it 4v II'444'tes aitolng '4'.ri t'kitIful engineersVAdmiral Amb.%~E. I dio not4 knio% I singleit' 441' 'gine~ 4444'w advocates it, except-

ing it he **r. EN 144; and44 1 hav i -w .r seel'4 him 4ih4114d di -1 lopeil. If' you gentle-nun-1 t hinll it j4.Mili'l, l i.lt' betWay~ in Ily 1444444 %'Alh be44 144't ask Mr. Evans how liewould Ion" 'eed tot (io it. ftir cerlo iily it in4volves, 4iintir'4'y unknowni elements in eugi.inerin4g.

Mr. '4e14r t'~4.A.%m44:44 that114 1 I jidi'-uW1t4'r canal3 41444 lbe iind. at I'inauiia, whyc'an it 4444 144'MU a414 Sat $141 y!~

Mr. F'it i1 Th '1144' il ion tit i i' lil' t- iininenme' 4444444'1i44 ;! but lits I uinderstand it,11he'~ VXIWHM4' "f 1 4 4444444i g 1as1444 WI i1''4l148'lill/. gly- ill thll' 4119t Il 15 4'

Admniral Ammc.424, No ,Ieotilt 44111)4 thait . But4 titi' 1j44'$-tlnl Iff'Cou4e4 o1ne sillilply as to'Ahi-th 141 IIip '.'414 is jolrat4i'4 i' lIe.

Mr. Sisti4.lits. %%'fluid4 it have fi' 4 i .144 linled tu44444i,

Mfl. PHI1 v. I ca4l4 recui.Ioit4 thait N'i.4ic N cry' sk illfiul t-ughwer announced t4hat411C'4 14 it w'4as444Jti?4'.4 to 1 114114 hi t Ii' 14ifosav44441 n 44e ien44414I Mas 444'-tt 4 nd y444 t 'i't it s 1 b181een4 uade,

a'44 44il 14414 141 N "1414 day a!4 144144"114It u4 ha:~t it vs.44AdmlnI Am334EN. Ila!4 6. trile. IM hIN liii' 'l44l44tt of il 41t riwti a44 e 4 d4'tifferent. ill

1Ili' 4 'A 4) C'1N. In4il 414'111'4 ' V I poll 1414l t14 441ip nature dra1 iage, itl i44 thle other'I v. Ith di 4 th441n1k tha~nt aill 4144 ixigil4l'wi in lINi world coui4ldi ke4'14 tit(e work free (it' wat~er.

Sir. S"t~ *il.i ii . i Th ful4414'l Wooi l' We to lIn- fav& i' th miii 4414144y ;t11 14r44444i1Admnirl A14344. .em. 144d I obi. iiid sm'4 Ii'.4'4. it' lo~ose' s144444 a4444 sm1144 we'tre' preached(,

.il1 I''igit14-4 14 i44 I 14 we t bu'di 11 44'' I 1t 4144 It( n14y. Thiey art' quite' apparen44't.

M.r. "'4%i 444 N%.~41 ' 1t noIl he114 its' j4.d4ia44tiltlAd~di-a4 Amrx It'' 'Ii 1 I'i.4I4 14414 i'ts1' 4 orl~ at$ all''~' 111 ii1f'. it we44' lt It'iiit 1:104 fut

In4 li'i''ht 11111 14111% 4.4'll'14't 4441444 at fill ,'14 4 li. I 1ni 4'4 1. ' l'3r gen l i deaA4114 illrelgard i I norl (it that k41 14 kindl.

'.% bib I n-a mil-' ha44 d 41 it 4' 14444 4441 w. ii ith' ' view of endealvorinig to) nta4k4' t1114.kwa44terlia41igalillt~ 44 tit :1 44444. 1141114hen. il4 ci'444"4, 11414 wld04i permlit 1a d1rau4ght to be1443414 14444 44' h-, 14". fect 1411144 i I4 oe '444f 1114' 4'044'4'l of thei Nutlet44'. Lit there is it.ii 11.14 ill 14-gari it4 444 tio'i s14 at '1-li'I'l %i 11141 4 lh'444 ge'lltt-i have4' no1'4 t cons44idered

fir met It 4'. 114i . 41414 1 144'. im a rise 14444 fall1 of tid414 at the m4ou4th1 of the UCu'hioti~4 i r tit'4444144' t4 f '-. N it%. i i'I Ii-; tune (it44' 441 ir44s t44 1h4 pro'4tec(ted4 14'y a4lock, andI if

w,4, 144 '4' e~i 4'ght is H4 44,44 lo h' NIW 54444.14 will expjlin to you4 techn114ical4ly 4114' d itli

NO PH li:I F. Von4 444 44't g44:4r. 14g14il41t the4 dlehr'44'' 1 jin ItiN - any4 ('14114.

M~r. Iv i:' . Wm'i44 fivic not 444 w III .4tl 4144' 14; 144t 444 gua4rd1 agais i445 l44 lt, Nica~ragua4

At414444l Ammmm4~~. V4''% 11N Ni4'14'14u41 (':44:I ti 44 14'141 1144' 1441441 of 4. hay4~, 14111. atPanama4441 4144 '.jlrlig fid14 1isvs' 14144444 *). 4''t.

M.1r. I 411 4 . liw much' 444431 141.' it ri-ii, (tit 4.44r hide!Aalmita41 Amm.Xi'4:\,. '1141 41414' k' rea:lly' dll44Lzil 4':4414' thtit id 4 lv 1p141 ro1p4' l'1er. Tim t

I%, to"~ lug 444 4ll'' 114441 l.m ol the''/4 4444 4114' and44 1fil444 1 s444 4re~ oi'$14 l iV' lilt, 114' 4 ti4r,'Mr. 1"i:n . 1144" .liovs Ni..1"..'. g44an'4 upigumt 414lti 1 I141 Is i4 by'4 a 1444k?Adt444l 4IA=M! %. I'144'1 d '144I %%wiv'4. ~ildil 44 144 iny44' luck, 11441 I ulv 11444. tI hey4

11144t 444 14)''. 144.. %;11. .'11411441114 awksiviwI i41144 dis i hig it i444144' I'al.4iN 4'4144'444 (4414 Iiit4441 lllak wou4ldI 4enwo.4' l'4l44:44. W44lI 414n4 IN, 4'lrre'1t u~ni'.ii In4' 4n444 14'44 than44 Ii '44 4441143.144 or,144 11 4144r lint 4 that 1( tha cul 'b g4144414'l aga4inst.

Str. 1'4t UP.~.l4ld 444 44'4'4r 4 I i. 41 41"'m to 14144 tha Av'. 41 14n' 141ou44r it th' 11414 rwi44 2020W.4' ?

Adira~l Ammv34 4. lit, ,aid tha1 4 t14ha1t would411 he i' 14' 44 1i14444444. I stle4't I [lilt it wouldi-i'or than4'4 that4 114.

M.r. lFuyt. 14 444'44414 144 4444, frjom wimi I kno1(w of the till. in4 thel 1Ba1y 4f F"undy, thatth cu'rren4''tt would414 1it' i1 grea'4t d1eal4 4444)4" thanl4 t14at.

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 13

Admiral AMEN. I should think so.Mr. FRYE. 8ailing-va.ssels down there pay the. sait. attention to the c'ie'rent as they

do to rocks or lee shore, or anything else.Admiral AMMv.C. ('ertainly.Mr. FityF.. Do yui: give ;tit estimate as to the c-ost of tie Nicaragna Canal ?Admiral AM.MEN- 'es; the istimiate niae by Mi. Me'nocal (cLyii very conscientiously

made) was $5'2,577,718, with 25. per veent. ade-l, which would make the amount alittle over $Mi,000,000.

Mr. FRYE. As the fill costAdmiral AMMEN. As the full vest. Mr. Rand, of New York, a very colt.te'nt and

reliable man, said that he would take the contract for excavat.ions,'s tliaqicoues, or inmild or sand, or rock, at the estimate given by Mr. Menocal without the 25 per cent.added. I think it important on that account that a relocation should be made, be-cause4 if, a is eutire'ly probable, a r~locatiou wcld shorten th distance cy 10 or 12mile-s ; that would diminish correspondingly the cost ofexc'avation.

Mr. FRY'. H fave Yon cestiliated the annual o.st of keeping the canal in repair, ascompared with its originll coSto'

Admiral AiME.. I think that. Mr. Menoc'al has nIadt, th.' .stimate.Mr. ME'o' . It has Iwen estimated at SA.t11,t)00.Mr. FliYE. That wechl be' abouectit onei' per vent . ou I lilt costMr. MENOCAL. Y's.Mr. CoNxiER. l)o's tlit il lilc c i'sttiit' lmer i inpr, evenient of tell- harbor ap-

criachcs YAdiird AM MEN. Y'es; it ineltoles keeping Ilhe haa hors lr.Mr. FRYE. Acce)rdi lng to his e'siimate, previling tilm canalI cost eighty millions to

build, th, keecinig it in repair \wele cost oene per cent. ecu that amount, acl, in yourjindgue'nt, the present 'xte'nt fef' ecrin'rce wLotl pay six per cent. on the investment?

Admirad AMMEnn-. I thiik it would pIaCy niere than that. I think that tile tirst yeartihte cominere would Ilc ccii l to li\e' million tens.

Mr. lIX(ETO N. That w1enl4l pay 110ree tleall 10 leer cn t I he in vestmefnt ?Admiral AM.EN. Certainly.Mr. SiN;i.FTO N. Even aft ec e. lecict ing th,' rie.st It' ,crati icg and pre'se'ring the

work f

Admiral AMMEN. I have ne elmeeit that it weiil after a short ime. h'lie commim-sion, if which I was on, had no raonsu at all to discredit the correctnesss or accuracyof Mr. Menocal's e.stiicates: htit,'as so mnaniy works ar undertaken with insufficienticajital, andt as the result is sc edisastros, Ge'ncral itilunlipreys, Caltain Patterson, ofthe Coast. Survey, aiil myself I himiight it tore t ilel t00 jeer cent. to his estimate inround numbers; and t l'ti're', iiste'aei of taking his estiuinate of tilt r'ot it fifty-twomillions, we hav estilinmt'e it at one hundred millions.

Mr. FRYE. Are tlie''e iate-i'ials down tilieo fi. tuilelhg a 'all l'?Admiral AMMEN. Yes, admirale.Mr. FltVE. Is there granite' their ?Admiral A.MMF.N,. No, not granite.Mr. MENOC('AI. There is trali-roik and linestine.Admiral A.NMi.N. And hey hee tle' very hest c liret' eit Nicaragla iii the great-

est alelnehdanec'.Mr. SINcLEIc' eN. What is tlie e'lo.vation tlit, is ti e ,rc'me iy I le Ni aragtai

Canal YAdmiral A.I. i'Mi. Th lake iAs 107 feet above tle ocean h vel cit mean tide(.Mr. S1Ni-q.uix'ccN. Wheat imnilcer el" locks woid Ie ne'cessrVy ?Admiral AM.MNi,;. The iumelr proposed in the estimate is '21, one of thliu loving a

tide-lock; lent, (if course, that question would c sbe 'bje't to modification.Mr. SiNhilx'o.. There won Id ie lnc tunnel o this route IAdmiral Ammr:N. Not at all. Tile summit level wieli bt. 4:1 f'eet ligl'r than the

lake. That would leave 150 jIet as the actnl sumnniit hevel.Mr. Fiti'i. The prote'tiin I'm' the sides Of the canal wouhl ce simply the slope IAdmiral AM.MEN. imply the slle'.Mr. FiRYE. And these ciculatins e Mr. Me'meal wer' fer an open caiil fAdmiral A.%mv.x. Ye's. There wotell Ift coie ditlicelty by that route. The deepest

cut there would be 1:14 fe't it' tile Rio 4eel Medio rtollte was adopted. If, as is entirelyprobable, the Lajas route is substituted for tlhe Rio del Mc'dio, then the dt'epeMt outwould h soniewhere aloig the San Juan River, ailt I sicppem neot more than 120 feet,[To Mr. Menocal. Would it be more than that f

Mr. MENOCAL. Nec, sir. nthe teleest cut would te aumlet 75 t'et in the' vaihey of SanJuan.

Admiral AMMEN. Exholorations which Air. Me-notal has itl 'eqlently maule indicatethat only line cut of 45 f'e't would he necessary. These explorat ions were run underpeenliar difficulties. The season was over, anl the rains litd begun, and the qun'tionwas to make thmo natural line of location, not expecting at till that that would prove

14 INTEROCEANI(' SHilP CANAL.

the Iiest lile. If it did it wouhl Il a iniracle, bit the very thick wools preventedthe location which might have been neade.

Mr. FRYE. Wbt width of ranal has lieen estimated for?Mr. MENOCAL. One hundred and lifty fieet in earth :tll 105 feet in rock.Mr. FRYE. If it it, only going to cost at the' outside one hundred millions, you figure

ip tile whole. thing as a siieccess ?Admiral AcMsEN. lndloubtedly.Mr. FRYE. Even ille'r tit, nit st advetr'''e theI/ll11reill e'irtell-ieSt attt'esAdmiral A.tMN. Certainly: it cannot foil. P t t ere tire elvents ice engineering

Which do not perciit of actual cal'latiol-s teh, ftil' ie stance, a.s the 9,an Bias tunnel.As to the Panama route, they certainly can make a canal by locking up 128 feet, butthe water supply would be l)rohahly insulivicnt front year to year in soite degree.

Mr. FRYE. When you neake ale allhwaiwo eef tOt) cr viit. over and albove Mr. Meno-sal's estimate, have you not tide a.1111111 allowac ttlr Jill cliontingencies?

Admiral AMMEN. I think we haN-e naele iere' than aeplee allowance; particularlyin view of tlit faet that there is geod re~iso to si eipese that a clos-r relocation of thisline will sliorten the distance ensied,raly-lrroalily 10 miles or more. There wouldthus le an avtnal decrease of cost, which wohl lerobably lering the' whole thing withinsixty-five or seventy-ive million dollars.

Mr. FRYE. What is tilt length ett the longest slhit) that we have now that wouldpass through that canal I

Admiral AMMEN. The longest ship we have now is oe -Iehegineg tee the' Pae'itfie MailSteanshiip Company, which is, I think, 435 tkeet in length.

Mr. FRYE. What curve would lee me cesary for a shill 450 feet in length .Admiral AMMEN. That wol depenel, of ceeirse, it poit t lt width of the canal. Iems pct that with tlt, width of a canal is given here there curve ought to haeve a radiusof W0,000 fe~et.Mr. ,NiOc'Am,. I think that 5,00 fI.t radius wuh leeb snflicient.Mr. FRYE. ,Sailing-vesst'ls woulel all geo throicg tle c'atnl by tugsMr. v.N te'A,. YeS;- except il c-msi neg tfli lake. Thetre there is a grot le'e'eze at all

times, aied very favorable wields.The ('fTAIR.MAN. What kind of entry is it about Lake Nie'aragea?Mr. MENe CAL. It is a beautiful country. Aliest tle whele of' it is olen and culti-

vated allet well polplated. Of course thce Ieopelation of' Ni'aragm, is very small-notmore than 1-50,000 or 300,000: Nit the pokl ation is almost all around that side of theeonntry-hetwen tbe lake acel the Pacific.

Mr. FRYI.. What lpotion of tilt canal would haeve to lee' protected hy tlee height ofbanks against the wind

Mr. Mm"NOCAL. Eight nile's of it oct the Pacific side. On the other side it is all pro-tected by hills oie both sides of the valley of San Juan. There, are very high forestson tboth sides, and tie hills run sufiviently near the canal at all points to protect itfroen the winds, except at thec lake. Tite lake is 110 cuiles in length. and it averages30 miles in breadth.

Mr. FRYE. I sutppose there is no difficulty in using sails on the lake IMr. MFNOCAL. Net at all. I have oftei crossed it, and the trilp is almost always

made within a given time, occetpying generally 10 or 12 hours, and sometimes, in badweather, 15 hours. A vessel will leave Sat Carlos in the ntorning and ge't to Virgir:Bay, oit tie' other side, early in tlce evening.

TIle CICAIOIIAN. There is 'easy navigation there.'Mr. MENet.imL. Yes; very easy navigationMr. ('ONGER. flow fat is it front thi Pacilic to tilt, lake ?Mr. NENO'Ai.. From the Pacific to the lake the distance is li miles. Then the

distance aereoss the lake is 56 miles; then the distance front the lake to the river SanJuan is tt cailes ael, as the line of the canal has been located between the river andGreytown. tlt, distance would be 41 miles. I understand that these distances wouldbe editii.'shed y a final location.

Mr. FRYE. What time eit) you e'ile'clate that it wocld take at v'ceeel to pass throughthe canal !

Admiral AM-e-N. I have cal'hlat', but I have not the figures quite in my mindnow. Ili tlhe actual canalized part, three miles an hour would be about all the s)eedthat a vesse e'le have. That would lie about 21 hours. There would be a lockageof, we will say, 24) loe'ks, and allowing half an hour for each (which is double the timethat Sir John Hawkshaw allowed), that would le 10 hours. Then there would be 60miles of slackwater navigattin itt the tipper river, on which a vessel might maintain6 speel of 10 miles all hour. rhe navigation o tit lake woul he 56 iniles, whichwould le' niale iii 5 hours.

Mr. FRYlK. Then you calculate' tie whole titne it passing froie ocean to ocean attbont two days I

Admiral AmmrN. I think ceo. I regard that as a very ample allowance. I supposethat, in working the canal, they would alternate the days-that is, that they would

INTEIOCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

lock iiii oeR day and lock 41min tilt- otlier. I suip(454 that that would he more Ofco-nflic('l ill point, of timle.

Mr. FitYE. Are youi fainiliar w ithi thle Gulf of Dukue oRI thle IPacifivl side, and withthle Bay of Bov'a de Chiriqui on thet Atlantic midle!

Admiral AMMzwq. I have never loen in there. Thel( Oulf 44f hiflee is it very finegulf.

Mr. FRYFE. Is it, not important O at we should have harb'lors there that we onitrolyourselves 1

Admiral AMMEN. Yes. I think it wotild he aI very good thing. rhe 1la Cl (hiiriquiwould be near the Patina (Canal andl wouldl lie alsomnear tiii' Nicaragua. And onl theopposite side there are several goodl harbors. There is a very goo4d harllllr (411 thobouindary between Costa Rica, and( Nicaraguall-the Bjay of Silliulas.

Mr. FRYE. How far is Salinas Bay from P'anamaIMr'. MFNOCAL. It i9 about 750 miles frontl I'aamula.Mr. FitYE. It is claimed that an Aniericttn cit izen-a 1111 ian 141111 Thonopsoi-liam

title to c4'rtltii lands extenfIiiigacross the Ist hus there, taking- in these two harbors-the (hiulf oIf Dulce atid the Bo4ca l' Ciiiritlini.

Admiral AmMN. I have hieardi of that.* ~Mr. FRYE. Itf title could bet oltinid fli thle I 'nite S41 tate's at ainy reasonable 4t.

tEo these two hiarblors, would y4m4 deu4ii it import ant t hat it should Iiilie obtin I 1?Admuiral AMMEN. I think so. I think that the estaldiK1hnuln1t otl naval stations1 Itt

conv~entient ploinits there would heit impoirtat i tlt4 p4rotectionu 4of 44111 commer144ce.Sir. FRYE. H-arbor% tire nolt plenty there?

4 ~~AdnmiralI AMMEN. They atre not 441 the At lauii side. Imt on1 t it(- I'liifi,- silil there areveiry t44444 harbors.

surATI'MEN'r OF1 MR. WARD) It. l11'UN1E:1"l.

M1r. W*Au B~1. BLua.i:'r'. oft Wa shington, 1). C ., vi vil 11tiiii' 111104. beft01 i.1committee by invitationu andl readi4 t lie f44110wfig statement .

Mr. Chairman and Ge'ntlen 0/' the' ('onniive un if 4t4roe'apic %;hill ('otto: At your re-ques4t, I anm here tIE-lily too state iny views 14s a ci vil enigi iiter. inll rie'1 inl reiiat i44 totle 11 bi'ect of the s4'let io otii 44 I ih 11414 route fort th -lE (114iti'iii't 11411 44± ill itli'4i'4'lli C

81 li)1'itiil acrosts thet Amnerican i ithiiiiis," andl more 414 4' 14t'itl ly thle - respect i 4' vimeritsl

By t±1lt- Amelri!1t istlimiis. I tilo tol undleristandi all t hal 14'ngth of lf Iill, wVith Itvariedlbrl'allth, extendling tromil till' Istliiili?4s of 'Ill'ileliiel, so4il iteast wir, 144 tlt-' fairt llstslirveys iiiade, to conn~~et thle At lanitic andliPacitic hby tlt-' At rtt River'.

It is Inian i est that till' l'ome vilt Iwo1lil, after long permits41 44 ofl 'isvi44i. liii bo414hi4satislevl that this great wor41k is i~lvssato' 4 tilt' pu rpose ofl (it t evv '11 i ili h 111441

.e-teitli ag 4'(oiiier4ee, 111141 thattt V 141lthrist ructted liy tliilt 1tpise ofI 41liv ilils t or 4Ily nattionsi, with 41111' re'gard to e4 4conom4ty, it iii 5 l144l prv to Ill' it ieim i eraii I 4nt.4'r-prise, if its nittr'ality. ililt e144vent o~f ntin al wartis, shldlllI14 he ti'ti 4ll tit(grea tt naval ipowers'.

I shall, therefore. in 41411 llviiir Nvit im l req1 44 uest . he~ 4lil1y i ililvil'a'41 Ily tilt. voil-sideriit is of1 thalt, JlI'tct ila I 4'4'401t11V Wlht1 Nli10l 114 t'i15 144' v il Oil- WIn'414141ttllof vatst 141111, of, iiilley, iiggrat'4ttl4 by part ies, for tilt, 1444c1m141ishmenlltt i WI 1r141-%ilhtEbentelil.

A passage letmwevu I lit- 4,4411 4ivn was 14 4,t tilt- thm (4ifi' 4 (')Ili Sin m1id ot4 1her na14tilnsas W(el IK ofC~l~JK Von less 1S~tt frili the time 44± Vus4'lidl Nin.z iii 113, lmit il mim'rl.the elolse (If the last century, N~hwn1 Pitt, ti-s t i-tr liil of Etiuia 41, 1 1mi1i1414t. ElfGermiatnv, 14111 (IWvit ees',adohreiiin emietl-sdl t'oeo trotihiuglht 1111 iniryt. It wvas miin% years later, ho4we'ver, liefore 41111' :%1EV itiizenls, atilt

Jpl h etOsv surveys through the Whitie Mlmintaiit iregion it' 4Ne'w I laiisihire,V ermtont. and Maite, with I iet'ilimit-Col44t4' Long, of thet l'4jl4itnpliia t't igimrs,atid Maor Yuile 1a114 others, of tilt' Royal Eiilgiieers (it, miixedl vlilioiEl), t44 414terililtthe routes (it railways noiw ii su ciesslfu~l opeiraitiont betweenI tilt' Atlanimt ic 04'ean andMontreal aind Queobee in 11cr Mitjvsty'v dlomiionil. Siubsequenlt ly I hlwl 111 RemidlentEniieer in thle constrimtioti lof the( wevst('rn half of the( I11liI'is 41111M I'iiganl Citnlal,designed to connect. our great lakI's front Cicagor, with Vie Wa,,tlrm oit tihe 'Misissippi

±River, and this employment for moilre ttn three years led tilt- t41 read14 withI avidlity tallthat I eould fni relatilintI ito anititovesl( caal across tile great isthitluts (fNorth and Soitth America.

16 INTEROCEANIC SHIP ('ANAL.

rEIUkNTEI'Et" ROUTE.

Among the first surveys that attracted iv attention was that of the Isthmus ofTehuanteuec, by Sigiior Moro, at the head i acit sientihc commission under the au-spices of Seflor ,Jose de Garay, tor a ship-caual. Ilis results were a line of canal of 51miles, extetliig from a point on the Coatzaoalcos River (w hieli lie proposedl to r 'nderiiavigable) far above Minatitian to Tarifi. near xN hith is tile suminit, about 740 feetabove the ocant, through the M etz'i lm /4 , Iy file ('ihi'alm River, that empties intoone of two shallow Iattols, the lower one of wic jeli ilish'li'gis their accumulated watersat lhoa Barra into the l'acifie, with artificial I harbors at the 1i1otith of the Coatza-coaeos River, and Boca Barra. The summit level, of 740 fiet.'t propetl to furnimibwith a siticivlt sttpplyN of water from the 'hicapa aiu (sttito Rivers of the Pacifieslope, by tle cinstructit ot' very extlnsiv'e feeders, more than 15 mi.es in hngth.

The restilt of this survey, mitadet in 1Q4'2-'43 and lptili.shed in I1..16, potssessed U1slalinterest at the time because of the proximity of its 1rproposeii seaport. ott ti Gulfof Mexico to thi' lp itt s of our own volst. atod til e,'tt pr,'hetii' details of climate,topogradhy. materials Fr' tle voti'triitiou of the wvtrk, anil tile general and variedproducts ;t its soil b but tiht' s, liseluvi't eXamii ntit of Mr. A. (;, l.'uertes, it civil en-gineer iti the plttoymnit fit r ow t goviriutienit, as.,oeiatcd witi ('alitain Shutfeidt,United States Navy, itidcei the very promttiiot comtittissioni oit' i heral umtti h liltreys,Professor Pattersont, itit. Cotillore At.llteit, ill their rp'i'iort utei'r dlate of Ft'ttriary 7,1876, to i:ike tmtany ohjvtihns to its f'asiility. I sides liestioliutg " ' tile efllviiley oftile water miptpflv." ly this rotIlte Nt% ll)rleatts woithi li' ie 1.s t1ifiles theater l San lt'an-cisco thitn li tie roite via Pantama. aid New York a.tott 1li0 mittih'.. Surveys fora railway" ha\v. beeti ilte showing that whilh it i." a feasil, litt'e for that purpose.lit) lowe'l: stititilit cali lit, olttiitii't. Th, grletet hl'ight oil ' fthe "itillillit, the h'ligtli of theine, tlhet vtst of' the work -As stated vly Mr. l-'iterti s. iid, alive ill, thli' d1iii ttt i's-

pressedi as to) lie water supply, are- st110161'1t Irouuutil'i of' od.itIiit to) this liii.' as ao

abanld it, atld thel' surve.vs sih, ibe'ii'iitly ttadi fu' ;i tail way, wht ti havt lietll a sit-eess for smith a it'tisi'. ittutlin its il thi' bi'litf flia it is4 noit tot bei thlotigli1t of'as aroute for a shipl-'iital.

'hla' topoigraphilical features itt'this route' were so tau'kii by Lake Nicaraguia ainid itsouitlt, the Sani Juant River, uiptit theii early tapis of t hat part of' thle world, that 'it at-tracted tile lt telhititi itlil' co ercial wotrli al iitis assitotli asPil , and inuierous

suvys were niai' by Eniglish and Friteh i'ngine'ers, as wel1l as otur own, the mostlirinenifiiit, i' which, for out' pttpo, vas one by Civil Eigineer Childs, of iPetiiyl-vaitia, at the inistanice oit acoimpany of'out' own citizetns, followed by a rieptort in 1851,Which, althohi reflictintg great cri hiittit , Mr. Chills, was by no m'an s as coipre-reusivi au ciiuutpttire I its details is the report atd general plai of United StatesC'iv il Etigiltu'tr Mt'ui'l, itt tii' expedition comndtiedl by Comnmandler ull, UrnitedlStates Navy, andi tiow lie'uru' Y'ou for yur special consideration. I hanve giveti uitchinm ati tii' tiuyto -N itii-'. , s tl'e rthi rtute n plats, andt, front my large experieteie it

the cinst ri io of' si woirwrks, I alievi' that it lilts, everything cothiitlered, notonlyili t he best getiin'l le t ' lieatioti that cani lii' obtained, but lls adopted planswell sitetit for tli gri't purpophl. li011 h ilitislt' ti1,UNi his intent n to makesome mutdivatiotts (itncreasitng the i'ist Itt.H),titi' niost imuportantt of' whuii'li is thiiincreased raii of ahuitt t fiftten of' the ctrves on the I itie of' the valley of the Sll Juan,if lie catitot in tlitii a im linre t'i t' i laprowthiig (ireyt* twn. Tile precise nmanter inwhieh the iianitih's of' w it lit ie lote to f'orm tht' pnris p of' the caal have beencalc'lateid,l' levels ' the ground in rugged portion s liavitng beetf tir keit at cross-het-tions every IM feet, atnid, when rei iiirel , every 5W) or even ' feet, is a g vuaratee tf theaccurat'y of the estithato itt' the iliartities pr'eseuti' d, and the fact that nearly thowhole line of' lit' c'ial is eixposed to view (it very small portion of' it onilydeep cuts) insures a it e lail roxitmatiiion the Clitrat' of the eutrh atid riek whifnmust be excttvated il the foirmnation of' thtie prims ll i my opintiont the interior inien-ou of'th licks, 40 or 454) f'e'et by 70, ate ample, ts I hve lito ideia that the coti mti'-

cial world w it iill il e atuother lreat East''n, il that Nitb's Ark will e'ver i'e hlpli-eatied. It tia ie well to increase the depth it' watet throughout the lite by at leaitone foot, to insuri' the passage of' eie, l of' '2 or 215 'i'et raft, uier all ire tisimt htices.The veseil in the trade should he employed toe cotnttai to them. diirttiot as theyare ample 'or till ratial irposis.

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

The proposed length of this line is 181.23 miles, made up as follows:Mile&

Total length of canal ..................................................... 61.74Lake navigation ............................................................ 56.50Slackwater river navigation ............................................... 63.02

The height of summit proposed will be 107 feet, and there is at all times a super-abundant supply of water. Besides all these favorade conditions, the river and lakenavigation may be utilized, without cost, in the transportation of the material, men,and supplies required in the construction of tile work.The total cost of the work is estimated at 1;5,71'2,147.

PANAMA IROUTF.

No site for a a ship-canal attracted earlier notice than the Isthmus of Pan:na, whichwas explored in the last century. and before its close Panama and Nicaragua attractthe attention of the distinguished diplomatistm of Iurope. Tlnonas ,Jtl',rson. when inParis in 17(.-, gave earnest attention to the subject when the eminent mln of that daywere trying to solve the question of uniting the Athnttic and Pacific. Impulsiveefforts were sullseq uently made by the -Spanish (Government, liv tie rev IutiouaryMiranda, by President Bolivar, oif Colombia, ill 1S127, and others, without result,until Mr. Garella, an engineer in the einplo of the French governmentt, in:ile his sur-vey and plan for the Panama r ute in 18S43. as narrated in his reports and printed inJanuary, 1I-16. His prolsed line aoma'iie'd 'it tihn Bay of Va(.a te Monte, on thePacific, about 1U miles westward frout Panama. and terrminated at Liion Ba'y, on theAtlantic, 471 miles, ill length; had a suiunfit ot' 135 firet above the l'ai tiv, a watersupply from the Upper Chagres, and an auxiliary reservoir. As lie proposed it use thebed 4f the Chares River tor about 4; miles ahyoe Gatun, for a portion ti' his canal,which is entirely inadmissihle, and flid tot designate the lint. of his feeder, o, give usgauginzs of* t lt Chagres in a, dry season, at tilu, initial point of' that treder on the UIp-per Cliagres, or the location and c'Lpalcity of his proposed auxiliary reservoir. his esti-mate of' cost for that period cannot he relied upomi, nor, what is more important, hisdependence upon obtaining a sufficient supldy of" water for his suinouit.

The great engineering questions involved the problem of' buihling a ship-canalacross this isthmus from Limon Bay to the lPacifie are: 1st, how to avoid the ChagresRiver, with its floods of 35 to 40 feet above its lowest water, and, 2d, how to supplythat canal with waltr if it is raised high enough in an aqeth't, to pass over that riverat its highest stage, tor the route between l'ananus and Aspitwall mast cross that stream.

The first question is solved in the hilan ot Mr. Menocal, civil engineer, low beforeyou, as embraced in the report of Conunander Lull. U. S. N., ani in ret'erelce to theanswer to the second question I desire to remark that I cannot leart that the lengthof this variable stream or river has been ascertained or the extent of its i1'qti'rshed. Itis said that its sources are in the mountains behind the Gulf of San Blhls. This much,however, is known, that its watershed is essentially rock strata of clay and clayev soil,so that when the rains of the tropics, it their triple quantity fall thereon in six insteadof twelm months, a very small quantity of water is absorbed to inaitttain its springsources when the floods have passed, compared with that flood which rushed's il tor-rents down the ravines of the mountains to make the little Chagres it lardle liver whichcannot be controlled for the purposes of rntavigation, nor relied ol in dry seasons atthe high level required for the water supiy of a great caial. The report Ietfoi'e yourhonorable contnittee shows a sullicient supply, hut the engineer's observations a yearthereafter, at the same point on the Chagrn,s '''her lite had gauged it, satisfied hi thatthe required supply of water "could not be relied on at all thius."

The railway Irit across this isthuas, by the indetitigahle Civil Enginee'r Totten,64 mightt he utnlade usful in the construction of the ship-canal, slulul this rout, tie chos.en,

by paying for it.I hav carefully examined the general plhlun before yolu, anti front informtation- gained

in reports of other surveys, as well its Mr. N|emical's,'I an sat isfieul that a bet ter routecannot, be selected ill the ditlicult eountry through which it must pa.. nor a bettergeneral plan adopted for it shill-canal between Limuon Bay and tite Pavifi'. Furtherobservations, I ait inclined to think, will make it appear to be alviabh, to increase,the elevation of the aqueduct crossing tIn' Chagres, and also to ('1ll.11litt mixiliar'reservoirs. I think the estimates for ntaterial. aid also iLillid lalbo' c'p'i , 1!/., shouldhe inade ntuch higher on this route as coinllared with Nicaragua, ,ni accouni t ofI its l'sstavorable climate and want of means of transportation of nen, mat erial, and suppliesby navigable waters free from any charyin.

The proposed length of this canal is .................................... 41.7 miles.The ')roposed height of summit ....................................... 124 feet.The proposed depth of water in prism .................................. 26 feet.And the estimate of total cost is placed at .............................. $94,1r540, 3W0

2 INT

ITEROCEANIC SIP~ CANAL.

If We eI iitigiil that thereti aire nl, iniiis biy whlii ai utliciviii -,ulIi utwater

and Niicir-iutia rilli is o-lk' inl iimir if Nii'nninigi. wih hasi a supply oif waterthe sniitrltnitlatii tit' v" hu lilil- in ijil 111. Its i)ist is u's itntilii at xiearlv.;;2lI t1 t ,th lss. I" S11111116: Is 17 fi'4.i lowi. mnakitng 241 ilt liss, bicil~ilgt. Its tiiateiii niort' sallliiimn . 11, flirl fit.I'll tilt,' Atlaiti' "' i s ilY a few lilide lit-arn'r to) o1ar'hllrs lilt 111:11 liuu'u i t Ilw hrliIir of Brto is ll li i i *.II mu t~1llieus ltu'lir1 than1

(if rmlti' biiiig lK,"1'i iih'. is tI nu 'i tr but it ilust ill, Imuivi InI tIiliul thit only 6il.7

I i ut tul i', Iiiiah\lof v 1 . 1ii iial irli11t t i' ll ttn1,1 ti v i., ' 1 t1111 I ttil izral ed,

tiif'ir: i s~.iti l uil uI us w ii it. vest ! iii right s b,,tutgui liiii.,It twc la b fr

tti le Iar'-tv tuittl' liii San. l it j ii't igt. biii liiteunlu th ii Ili' wil) 2 ll.tn I nubitt lifr liii'

rg'ttii 'i s ill ):11 ill ese o 'i -hli ti l i tigii'' ii ott iiiW uu uii u s to iii 4i flit- iirpenlus

tiak th wi'lttII 14u iit'l il" li'uuiII( %lis:ii ki iweu t oilt i i'uat' ivialtuntIl' iesiiit .f 11ht 11 i '1t1uttilatst pI-itie itg nor boing donelioia olt theuhsd t*ul tli nu il -ss il- ul esel. 'al h i' i lt i i nt 'r, Mlg(4 ilill tt wiit ltil't ii

Iill acIi' 45ttt il Ie y ' iii' t i t tti i'l :ii go i t 14-'t tu i I'ne It ies iiv(. i V to( ) I

i'Iltlen ti N itftilt B11 t, w hil' h wll ing an ill vni ttit i iaittllal rm ly oft1

lill Of r ki't t tTiiii 21lii 'i~'iu'gl r ely uu Riiusltltty~itiit i iu

Il tivg.f 'titg'g t a l'uav a ,c oI-XIIlr ;[i'wt tti l ll' o threp l Atrato n uip P, 1 5 sitireyl'tl

4425421111 i 111 I -t t' i 1:11 .1lti guilisist i 14o ut fi ttt ill 11, lputlo It~ s 14)11 fl ie n n uf ei r

A'. tri't i gh111itll w ilt I )% 11' ull ali t'' lli Wi lth lie reiti- ligl t p 'sll iy that ilst itise or

fitlini eli m'il ~l' w111ilt i i wul l i r~ fi'-lltttite ii twean .'N- (otlt ' thourh galt at ay.1 !V 1i r i I 1-1-i 44' tiu 'a' 4. phoin ' t 21 41 hta ig ll l'so i 't itw' Ottr o tit' 5t'I- y 1m te reiel

gi'l'r t'ttilne (t,I 110M1 II' ~llV.,: i h ut at :I ti pit is ty iipIri't'Ci I mi t411 o t obt i V'~l ie1

i (rni thiv thIlllt'i itt rve i ill l, Mlpt ie obso'rveul tMa afll totf tin.(N-Yi, teic withrpanlt njit1il i't:1tlt'i,4pu hav ' i tite iir4-. oitrdh owt iienntt osfr aity M Kel'y and other

I\ wi1't u'vr iiiit vil 1u'irti t s r N\ re1. pbli114 ashol taethe itiatve% fill th IW on-rtil, l'si Il utt' till lisl~ 11 1ra 1ok at il preent lettito ilte t noretendd c~rro tso

Maie tAlasa Ou ws sstmoffretrdebtwe the twtStu.wthttI-Iaro fSiBaite datiy Rnhane

n alue 101i and iprtce woti eeivei -i a inalll incrhe ae t rg Sts liointt f'viitis*0400,00 r ..M00,04 t'tw rh i wll f h vr ln

iNTEHOC'EANIC SHTIP CANAL. 19

C0tilli I'I'4'I Witlli tiat (coast. wi huh, li. onle itt tilet hleleticl'eit i'e.,lll o t' the NMex ivau w~at,

l'tall ,t o thIlis coiitittee lili. gt'tat tlute'.t its otf itivil ttg Enigl:llil otol other ('111-

!n iutt' l naltionliM 14 1111114' Willi (tlt repiliit itt Itit' i'ontiin otti, ot' this woirk-ini arraug-11i4 g 1 Ii tliltitet' 411, tilt. nletrlit (it t itsN lit in It'e eveniit o wiir, as5 well a.Ill' o1lt hers

to prte vt'ttt tli iN giantd irjl't' i-otu faillintg into~ till' hlitt s of' speculators wh Io cnntotPlute it ol tle so lstal jal basis t hat you'vatl give it. andtiXX who hv itX-bret titbni, utnder

grns ol ilitis and pri vilege4s or conlcessiotns, ever tofit'tIti. thlirt obligations to thet'ill~lot oct ilir, pi art ies, antdi disappioinited the' votittiervini wrld

Auer N-411t have delt-rii il Where you Will leclite tIii is lieuttitcut wortk, take the iniitia-

atN v alst il its ostrcti on 1Iilviting ler i t) ions t' unitii it ( wi th yo'p I It , 14 t'tetii you ipiasi-

an li lit tIe vl. I lt hIl tii Iasa noii Mly tht it) Il is ieiillghi , ll ttre1111 livrl .4'~ rCon

'Mr. (it N4 .Et. Wils l i a tak k'i l ie inalrtiuiil Itt' l nis.i ii 4.4 bout I \ ath canitcinPa l y,.111 that~vr. th t i othi. cluae s1,1,o'tl-v p nt

Mr.ttgt 4tllv tttrr 1u 414) tt it-ial to' 1iisy tatit ii itt t he sit itg Iititi thet tI it iitish- owill ha t o pa li ' tileailroaitd prc to lt' ltss'otl(li lt.11c t ot h Illts 1 11 ) o( 11:15 iiils t

,Nilis :t , lt . Wt i ll atilt 1N tinX ' ie i o a hiei Mliii rbed'i b y tihe lcin a Iltgtl't

hMVit M i'' 11 iis;iIS 1101 11142. lrlll vli ill the3 control zill'J;i 82 tettruit)lY soi far7as)1Hill's of I1 ralptitr 80 3lo1-liv iut icts ltil'CIt vrva'

Mr. Wlu.T.'l*nilN. Is oitl not a tact hat, thel oitul' ttilligt hste iitia tveli ill

IrIts i l, I...1 tItI.t' in saligv e l it .,is -ica rai "la r l \ve.44Jl~,th rvr.lwl IJL'iINrT Adtrle owltitlit, ated the othe day7000,0 to thek greatt fit cras is then

Ilr. o Wlirt, oidsltnE. lilt, tlvstothei, jtlid (thers 8hntt oka the deti al)s s snptsniali' I iit otk tfil that &oIn c111111 I t io thath prItlirl in etial, tfwtigres as toetit( 11i''1' illvs i t' t e isi' oanl. t lit the figst N iii ofitt''s t (nig 1 0 -~y tlr)o'the rclisw r

$ .<401 atntlt, nehit hasli been so i he negitl prot have titol'rsttiith I intro uititi te

lt e ot' f I ti ''at ina lit jin 1.i7 It e ieav pstilla sail i ilt,, Candl

Cost tonsa. and( it is v brioee to st tht' sinthn has bvi-1k Wate illivigaotuto

do nt ise ti t, ll l he 1 accit out' ;tithe san mu intearlos.lel ilN~l ndtl

Cali'. stilln.er . iilTe re l is o iig off"ii't o vr, l itste 'iaXli lullg i ngtl

belo tStNIrtx Ios; it t1*4,sr '~ t iitil P73 2,it',00 tan V, 1. ,00i iIiyon a1ro1,b0100 wad h i J P n17 n 43,0Riv win totettul t iCtsit coit'n inctheseeeviroiyyaof

Mr. hl'-iciE'r'r. I s psil nt aftlt Mosti ti haved' stonnae ci stitvesl ii s oule-otrasng Sand ha ier sati.ing-errstr who werasa iig Ith iiise'ltkitiaalain1r N ictrT AdmWil i ne st4W ate tifilot a tlr t e grkates t~l thrat ie i

has suchftters frot.Ii til ocresin o itNicnrtgeaas t 48horsiii tohoat othe Ricaillnotn~ Daytbookl witharot t, any ftinnn that Nicargamy illter ins rear

tolil~ tona.Mr. FRYEi. are yo s eersnl fainlad with th v iaundrood!liteihnh

Mr.t BUR2NETT ano, t;I o.t ia rlo-.t s it theirst part orm stakatet nation

tAireaos. h Is ga vessr fo munh option o the sujc l rntGvtnars

20 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

STATEMENT OF MR. WILLIAM A. PILE.

Mr. WILLIAM A. PIE, fornierl' Vinted States tillister to Venezuela (lirefa,.ing hisstatement with the remark that be had been invited by the chairman of the conlunitteeto state his views in re'l'enc' to tile Iroplsed (anal), aid:

I have nothing to say as to the route of the eanal. I am not ant engineer aldi='eno such practial or scienttilc knowledge of the subject as wodd justitv tle in singanything about it. Nor have I anything to say as to the Monroe- doctrine. lhat hasbvel v.l'Iutilat d ih thlt iiirss, mid you klnow as iuich alout it as I do. As to till, rightaid dliyit,' lt II' it eli satls to e4 ol441 everything lertaining to America, I hav 14odoubt. I shall 11o1 say anivtlng as to tlil, general h,'arill"Sof this (1 lestion of a inter-oceanic canal on our r,riltons with .laln, India. and ('hin'. or 411 Ihosegreat er andgeulral as14ls (of tilt queistiOll li.T will occur to yon. il adwhih you iavel greaterability to judge and as iiiiiih talility to get ilml'mnltion abot it as I have. I wildonly d esire to 1.01 till' atilution of the coinil tev to a few practical considerati ma asto tlip bearing (f this 'uti'rllrisv on Anierican inte'iess il the istinis a1d ii the

II I Z t r'ips (-(lit itll Is t I I j-1,1, I o tll I iOugh|ts \0hic II)h a p i s 'h I d nlot ~ccur t IIt Ts'.tflls.

having Iess lwi-'otlla altil l'(c -lili kniowilgie of lhi I 111111 I have.Fl-rTL ill 0 11' ihd ;11141 Ilu ihe v llit es ~mitiglols to wvhe,'. thiscal a ,li ll tiv built,

lhIle iS I *l l !lit it ,ll I 144 ix tO irIlght pi issi iii. D is i country a(1 abh4 ofl stW a in-ing ll 1411h' 1 of t il (i f -fii li|'an till o t ' \ i ti (nevs t hat ihinie it i 11 3' ti biv t ll t Ithlit " lit lia w alt i' i'a 1cn d ill tiil- trl;ics, and .lat ( itry which Na ,. ought t,, N IIlytogiad\ with ljllll ll il iif limf turvltied gdis h it' i it. 1Wd all its whleat ',,e..ilial c'ollit'.1 si ,|e l it'el ii |' , rjjgl m~lllqv l v t it is I c.omiltrN to whit-h we

A lythi ev but litih', ill y11 'iYligth ie directio ii hv 5 111 the arliles of loh r il kerosel e,and ae Iicolts of 11hitr and stloab,-it-ltir al iIateiietls. With rai it reth e ,ltieillortalle (1f tiwllt- tr4"f If to.se ('4,1lltl'ie., let tilt- r'emark that that tr'ade bas." an! irti-liortalale ( in hent'nt I ly (inl r by the number of' litlltion Imw, ti1' even by tiell-ll,-lir of liollation ill lt- furi r,) which ay not haveirciseve ylll'Oil otnr dy ill vlih-voinit oli onluinvite with ho.11 i orllntiiv. oit. e ilong lmralht-s of ltitwe bet w,.elcltries of tll ilith.ehe sae clim ate, and n protlll ty iuhahitiall y a thetally ce l ifite 'l ,l~ liellilll. i' f1 vVv il-tvt' iI t aonllilni'of (l rltall \\.tell oll f illlv indlro-otion o etre ipultion) for tile reason that so soon as the conditions of capitaland la or and f'tll1t''ill equalize, those countries res etively 'odlie what tlhy liedthemselves, and they (Il Imt buy from others. WVhe,, we hadu little vapital, and A% bonp

th'.ti allital dva.hn al wheii .r lahor and material were dear, we ought frorteiand largte irtuatiti, alf mainffaettlred goods which we now produce oelntels.

And this ei aliz ion will go in pil oplortioLn its 0)111 plmlation befloesmore dense,1111d as those conditions of vap~itel and labor and material alpproxinjate the conditions

ill England. iil sequenlv in parallels of latitlie, n1eas1red by the number of'l ap-ilation in the c,,ntrieigtiltlved. eoultere is ever a deroasing commerce. But whenyou establish c n1i eri oi tiarallels of longitude at long distances and between coull-tirsl I. totalyitfirent el Iiiate, difleren t soil, different prluetifns, inhabited by a o-tally dilirellt lelidle--- livoltiliO dfltlerent tastes and of different rodes of indns-tr sh-that oiniierce will be iperpltually an increasing co iminere, pro Mfortionately to treincrease ofthe population fthe ount ies. There is nothing to modify it but the eInal-izatioi of conditions as to J.alital, laor, and materials. rom those outitrie that aret lie'lfieted y t his canl we sliall want forever their cleile their cocoa, their ndigo,their coemi l ' heir tstie, ailur all their plodluc ions which we conuie and cannot hrI-dut~ee and they will require init ira-teased quantities otir wheat, flour, potatoes. kerosene,

nmthinery, ad natfave tit golls. So that bete tih the m ua r , if we ean arrive atthe leieit of illtrosontrlin t ln,,etae (ana Ie ought to fro our relations to those v aon-tries and omr ivalne ors to thell), that eouneree will be a perpetual and eve,-inereasing~oummerev, lIvt une vall youir UtuemtiOnl to another general facet which may not have

IwliCrred tllof afons who 've Observed tlt,.'il eoml tries less carefully th n I have.ifley are illhabitd by a lmlmlation of which aout one-thice (or perhaps h) isSluilsh, tad re Nwitv 1 lrmausion and taye alntish or Castilian race. MY friend, Mr.IDichnan, call 1411 yoti wh ether that is the ease all over C'olombia or not ;lout I knowthat it is thel vase, ill tilt portions of tolonibia whieh I have visited, and in Venezuelaand all those couintrivs. The remaindher of the liolmhation is it mixture of S linh and

lil.h know,, it, thlj e utries ihiat at shil,-canal is to lbe built across the isthnins ty aforeign couipany, French or English or Gerinan, and is to be under the patronage andlrotectio,. of a firei,,a government, wil! influence largely and potentially the convic-tionls of that people as to our enterprise and as to our prominuence in Amierica. Thatwill send trade away front us and may be another hinderance, in addition to the very

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 21

many that we have already, to our securing that amount of trade and commerce andthat dominance in trade and commerce that naturally belongs to us in those countries.The mere fact that our flag never or only rarely is seen in those parts, that we haveno regular line of steamships running to their ports, and that we have not the meansof coUntnication which we might to have, owing to the ruined condition of our Tiler-cantile lariie, is a potential factor iti sending trade from us and is preventing us fromacquiring the amount of trade and commerce with those countries which we ought tohave. In addition to thit there is the fact that such an enterprise, built on Americansoil and controlled IN a foreign company, would ring to the point where the canal isbuilt and to tilt surrounding ('omltries al increased number of lreiich and Englishand tirinan it merchants, who would hate in) those 'o.llitries; and they, by rea son oftheir relations with the old country, by reason of their having their erdits wherethey are known, and by reason of their iderstanding better the proultictions of the

1W ; "Zcon ii ries front wh;ch t hey come, would naturally send the trade, or a large part of thetrade which ought to come to this country, to the countries tron which they come.One of tihe niost poteutlial difliculties which Aniericani mamfactitrers are finding niowin introducing their comnodi ties into those countries is tile tet that the merchantswho control the trade of those countries are largely G erman and French and English,WAit i oil ,v lien' and there an American hose. These Frenclh aid ( el'lllal i1111 nglihhouses have their relations with the old country, have their better knowledge of theproduct ions of their several countries, and have their atfliliations and preferenves; andemimeq uentIt ly, if we take tilt, trade which they handle front the old country and bringit to this country, it will he by reason ot' a very great preponderance of advantage infavor of het trade here. I need not dwell 111pol the point thlt the fiet that this canal ishiilt by a foreign company and controlled by a foreign company, will attract to itslocality and to those (oitigoolts loaliti,- I.1'g.'ly the 'itize4ns of the colintry who con-trol it. where tho principal oflive is located. ail where the commercial and politicaland financial intl nences are emimentrated. IBy that attraction of the citiz/cns of suchcomtry to it locality and to litigiouss localities, it "N ill control largely tie trade ofthoparticular regional where it is Imilt. anl of all tile eomitignous regions to the s mthwest,thtonlt east, and the north. It caniit, ;ITil eirtal iily will not, eseafic yioiir iiliservationthat whil the neutrality of sam enterprise of' this kind uay he giiarsuit d. l whilesilhistiaiti'll eqillity of tiniag. charges ti tie Ve.ssels of the varioims nations passingthrough it may bi giiaralitvil, yet there are a1 thousand ways ill which a 'ollpanycoiitrolliiig suel an1 elterpr'ise as that caii throw the Ioral aill si bst'antial inleleesof tle i e'pi'ist ill favor of' the colmliiel'o of its owln Tiiatiol ind a1sa illsi ti i' coill-iliriv of' tile I'hite ii st'ats. For all thlse consid'ra ions and for manv otliers whichOCi'lll1 teiM o., hiit which I cannot ask th(! icsinift' to Itien ito now (az it is tion' forlilt meeting uif the lIoise), it is of tile utmost imlirtamc (ini fact it is important to adtegrev that lnolle of is vall now filily ('ollil ehlild) Ihat a valal bIlVi l til' Atlaicand Il'ailic Oceans shall bt, I(ilt by an Amnericti coilipan;', and shasi b liidir thepatronage and protection of the (ov; i'4niiit of til li'itt ' States.

Blnt onei consideration couected N ithI this I al.i, ask yoil' special attention to. Ilmy judlginent, coming direltlv from there re(iiiy, ani liiin '' Mi'. l4esses aiiii

looked over tilt' N% hole bearilir (if ile i1est illl iii its li'l'sen aspiv wt. w' ( lll hot a voidone of t we positions ill rilatiiui to this caial. We niiist, ii this comitiy. take stichpraiti'al steps as will give tile schiie for the io'nst ritio of' all inti' nicealii 'atlal apractical direction i tille con.i 'ri't ion of' that ('mial, for we will he place il tilt' ati-tilde of' tilie doig in the illagel--n ot doing it iouruselves and prevetitlg I by tile attitili'we as. ame anybody e'lsu froi doing it. I ft) not think timt thr' is tlit slighitst prob-ahility, fro mt what I cal h'.in11 tout'lhiig tli' filaliaI slciess iii "rali'e of' Mr. Iesseps'schiiie, that he can raise the monyt t v. build the canal atiir th' di'nostratiotis ainidsigitatiiis on that subject in this comitry, aid after the opinio.i anm views and oppo-sitiou of'the lp'ople of the 1710ted States are known. Euliopenall capitalists will notembark in that scheme n less they are satisfied (if thi substantial frietdshilp of th'egovernment aitill people of ti' I'nited States. I should siy fraiukly that I have haldFears indstill hsuvs' fears that tile aitatio of' this question uiay pl'l'e its ill to' attitileof privit ing other people from btiuildiig the caned, whi, we at tilt saie timie fail togive t~le matter such practical diri.tioni as will seenr'e the c(lstrmtioit of th eanl byourselves. That will he it very m; it0lo'tnatte attitude for this coutitry to olculpy beforethe civilized world, ii view of lie- great importance and the prs.iig "and all over-toppiing ieei'ssity for the cost riction of this great t'oiiiereial enterpris,.. Every eon-sideration of' pblie policy ought, in my jludgment, to iiilnmn'ce us in giving the qies-tion sii'h lmtti'al direction as will result in the vonstruetion of the anal, even thotlghhaf of' the money for its construction may have to be Ilaill by th Uii .,l States Gov-ernment itself.

Mr. WH iioI NE. I have soen a newspaper report that a l"ienMh banker had gothold of the revenues of the Government of Venezuela, practically. Is there anythingin that towspaper report 1

M'. PILE. Nothing at all. I am very glad you called attention to it, and I shall he

INTEROCEANIC SHIIP CANAL.

1Ilnp'y tot sf14 *-jult NvIlit tie is ili it. A 'lin ge ocl'('liIl'E ill tilt' ( o'eiii lt it' Veti-

lano. who w.110 thetu ill Pun-s. \\.,Is cl'nlf-d th almilloist Illlillll.4 voel'q (of thel Iwo-

I t organ i/I mill Itke charllge' of tile groveiiuuteli4-1t. lielt eti'l-in'l in Nfirlii lnst :111ul\vas i ppoiunti441 p~roisioal lll-c pside'It . 114' wenit 14111k ti. 1'Ill('l ill April for' is family,

andll(' tilt co1'lit .1lt 114111k co lii 11i41(l( 11114 1115ne(4n 144 4t~fiteiltc w i h Stli l it I il'S ed]till) Il ois Iion vsi 11 li'li ,I conventi o thlie d piof ufo ('441 igr4'ss for frhe v'I c l

11411 It) ril'41 i n till u slle'11'l di lmti fili cti'4 lrs to e. 'li cXii l- ll th r e rl 0 1i'l lts wi th

Sit, . 441 111 .4l'lllO i tl '' c11v s 11( Mkotl n t .1114:1g i'S. t a nd 11 it' f4i-4 041 till V. 41141

t i'll :A t(11. . lff l

tiol o, 'lil-id~. ill ht Il-oV~entti' Ii-ors A.sito Wile the. (4 e Furanr (no i~ito, r. co i it.'. xci 111 14 'lv ' N.'v w Yol, ],ft) linto141 414 m itil il f'411 il.' a114 v leilu t ill f'Mrw.

wh.ic' h~ l Im .itI (11sd) N 4 ' i'll Mi" on )I*I f 'l lic from ti(l, 111141 11'4111 ili S lint,

.[fill 1'NliiIchIru I 441 .1'1v is t~lillt1 III Y r. i'r ('111 (Ii es find1 1 11 1 ti S 11 r4' o1 tii'( lilg l d.

iIgiII.N 1wi 1h ae v;1.1'u f i t' Im ,r vii. mi ont' franc11111s, and Nvlis. 1 to4 un d I commssi' 11 o1f41

1st. 'H is lii 14(11 V It 114 Ita ra 'i't 10ts is sind 11 ill 1 (1 1 em ifN i i 'llgllreport 111111 Tir-IV'tl (llliis0 111114.s(t 111 11 m t , i and r'ttr i f pr o 1 . ill illI p tIto o 1111. 14 it t l t,' 1report W.1ied

fi hI'r~b ft.'ile tiC -111 t' 4 t111 Ii ('igil tz -fil' 'l w l's Ar fil 11111h 1 iN4(1 it jl Mr. 4''4er 't 1111

B Il t ' .1111 1' t'cl il trlll'"It i lt' stitli otittf l tel f' till, c(1ontruc4 t ion4 li'i f'Ill'ds ('41w411

(it' o t rsioll It. II' C til.'?' (ilh.t)(t14i 11 ier~t 1 1 '111 i14u11 oll 1its Il till '.1il P;r . The iil tIof il conditttio . f11 r t c l p ot41 ,tlt o 11151111.N ii il isv;ilV l

N'rEAMCEANIC S1i1i1 ('ANAL. 23WIi tille reiitarkinng upo i viX1Itl'rlin'(liale tranlsati 11 aIq l 114 t'''e ts. we lijid ft aIill 1 a.7

MI lilIgthl l t 'ol-' ;iiio ietwry 'l co tract was ei I iiii i ashl. l Va iousll' -rin . fill the1 4'

11fiy th e i t. 1:4 tv re ta te ytllG vr mnlf iaa m il it ivv.poligating tilclXX i11tial'41 Avli'I ll'i ll i'~lXlt i t h at M it has tW e ascv-a1 le and wM

X'4'lle 4 11Y v tll ptn ant]1 14$.g~ x mnain lld tfiat ia ctil o'l t he d111 m ni o411 ils' relight ill 1jtile4 ('11X111, IiIX 11 ar ily ( til I'(li til0' 1-49,-

tract (it' 11449 canot 'iy lit' 11)111 Ile hve is 1 111' a Nl4l'll'lt f Ni arogmnltfllpi11 (it' w te

The'l~'1 teitl II til t41 sipllvt t r co1414. 111oi'1Ail il t 111ilt- still ll illv ('11111 fol liotl f-'( tiil llilil 1 io st111411.til -11:1oltll a t(i'fi om a y i ;,p i-

A new i -tbod ofl t II'' -tn trans11111 141t ill' provid'4 but11444 il A 'a a 'lll'l /1(' t'l1.'4'cet, as

cliay 14 g il1 4'lto 1 eda 1ll ' i .4 lld 'vtb ti 1'4'41blll. Co trc 414 ' 'hi 'lil/'ed41 to 4 g v144 th"e4(~l

m Win relatio. W il li pa11 vs:

It i 1-f '11'or '2iv til'M 'l'V4'1 s -if' il lltob iit'l il'l'flX .jt al' l ted by.1''4''V ti ll'utac o'f111 ('1-9

WagIs illta r-alb tilt' 1oiia' Ilitel P 1 ' 1 454 4 57'lll~X. The iGoi I illitill1(15'4' of1011'll I' 41W114'tle

by se %%r is W il bl IIi lti'4ll t Ill ~qA~ tilt II I'i lll l At i41 Si. 141411- 1o V14 I' (llI it, 1-1i Iy

4.tlLt tili' 4.flill- i l l'.' i ll eel

l Thii t-i' 14410 (i4tl' ),5 .'l i' l l n ot44 t ll .. ll 4 t icll 441 ri-is AvC 114w'4 14 ll((ll d as 1 tI) till th ills

ATIlli t :11 111414 Ill-ii $1114141i ~lil 441' pal 441 'l l 1011.'' krvop of l olcallttr ttl

24 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

the Nicaraguan Government that the canal rights of the company had survived themutations which had overtaken their coutrtvc-t ;n other respects.

This is the last official act between the American, Atlantic, and Pacific Ship CanalCompany and the Government of Nicaragua.

The next act between the republic and the Central American Transit Company wasthe contract of November, 1863. This contract, like the preceding contract of 1861,continues the reservation of the canal rights, if they should be needed to construct thecanal and to use the same. The phraseology is somewhat amplified by using theterms. "If the government should be a party to any contract or convention hereto-fore made and still in force, or hereafter to be made, for the construction of a maritimecanal across its territory," &c.

We coustrue this to mean precisely the same as our understanding of the claims inthe contract of 1861, with the addition that, if circumstances in the future should re-quire the contract of 1849 to be so changed or amended. that substantially it becomes.a new contract, or if we were to surrender the old contract and take a new one, it is amatter over which the American, Atlantic, and Pacific Ship Canal Company has thesole control, and has not to conult the Central American Transit Company.

The Government of Nicaragua, on March 3, 1565, enacted as follows: "Article 1st.The v'xecutive power is aptihorizid, representing the rights of the republic, to causeto cease the contract celebrated onl the 10th Novcmber, 1663. with the Transit Coam-pany, in virtue, of said company having fidld in the engagenents."In 1171 tl' alcove data substantially wre presented to the eminent jurist of New

York .hilav .John K. Porter, for his professional opinion upon the present status ofthe Allantic and Pacii,. 6hip Canal Conepany, hy the president of the Central Ameri-can Tran.sit Concjeati., Joln E. Body, esq. Judge Porter, after a carefuil examination,expressed the opinion. hfliat there is no Mode, under till- canal contract of 1849 andthe ai'ndniees tlireto, of'c' ling dith'ren'ees vxcept by arbitration, as there provided,and flht' decision s and ainilneelnts made or atteuclpted to be made by the republic arevoid."

Jueg,' Porter' f'rtli'' ys that flit, chanater (if tie contracting parties, and theimportance to tile celUcm .1've elf the eorld of the confessions anid si ilulations inade he-tweel| elivl, nite, to tIa1e tle'se' eizve.tioes out efe the slilere of technieal law andbrings the|| within the intlhe'nve of those beiead rule's of' morality which are supposedto uldorlic internatitiec le, and Ice gn urn in all eases where, a eatien being a party,cons1etlenc'e can alone be aplealed to by the ol, er party for c'Cdi'es ill cabe of wt'eng ormnisuner st andeineg."The corporate rights c' sahl At1anti' and Pacifi, Ship C'a'e l Ceiipanv were dividedrainte 19'2 l'i'ts, of' whi'h .elf' a9d as-e.ietes hel 94 ; 1 lie ot lers are heid by the Colt-

tral Aneerican Tramnit (C'eleteny al others. As hlehis ef.said stock in said Atlanticand l'atile' Shill Canal Ceenelany, mself and associates have, fio' Ilie last three' years,been IeillII "n' lecc,'sistecct ec'tleet te olttalin a re'voguition l oeu' rights teo construct thocanal. eithee unr flie' eriliery grale of' 1,49 or ey sneh chee (llge's oir acineidilntltis asto make it bubstaue ially a new eoiwession. We' hae ha a re'sidcit agent in Nica-ragua, w1 lee li i'i ec sai dle'i h ele t'eo-wt'uticeg our plains bef'tre the cxe'utivoof fli 'elletry,m

We lave i'eli'tc'|ite'dl eOur rvadi icess anld octr ability to organize an Amecericaen Celci.j Ill te ce .ry tle l'e,jtc-t icito I'Xvtiit . We have had the unotlicial aid of the

eit'd ts.ctlt -i nistq" rc sidecn t to leat go rminic'e, and lhve ex ended cc cisiderablh811h oel lea ice-Y ill the ]ereesecltiol of oir clailis. We have always 'ecouterd rivalalica-ec, s 'rcie other tat i liccl it's, aced N ithi it last year a, -eevcshio was abso-litely' mail, hic the e '11 t * \' cxcruti ' f Nical'a,;tgi te, a lrene'tncan, Mr. Blanchel, which wasddaeltctiI by -t' vole of ceie eonly in tIe ucclic i al lg,,islatlcr.

Outr ageiit baid c ucit ic-n cocciunicat it il f'ri the present expect ive of t iet Republicof Nicicciragea, dated le-'th (ef list Stpteliber, iftorening him theat another Frenchman,lr. Ble I ly, w cc enc -tarily cxli-i ed iii tlit' c ittr\ in liriiit of t vanal grant. All

our ie ors and all ic' et~l'its ivn i len inc vain, acnd we have the gravest ippreh'en-lions tIhet Iuless we leave the' aid of' (ur governicnti' our right s will be violated andit at d. tiale'.

InI l e ecue's orgrantiz-elt ler t le ve'rc'al ce'iiits ut' '57 atnel Imsi we werelarge stichl 1 ers. cider which eir rig-hts a d o' prl.ety were inlawfclly seice Icz ythe (iceGo\'crteee-tit ef Niciargiiia, auid were firfe''ite l wilhiiit warrajit 'ithe of' law orjustice.

It is unimiestionecl that tlur or five million dollars have' becn mciiwfil l approlriatedoil the' seil e' Nicaragua, t1tiel the lage capital itivestcd in these vaiicits enterpriseshas been wholly lost. Wce llie c' that no ecodil ion, exist on this continent so favor-able to the eoaitruetio coe' a ship-caiial as ar' ollrcd by Nicaragua, and we can pre.sent lice sttretiger confirletation of this faith than the very able report l'eetwnted to thePreside'cnt of the U"nited States oi the 7th February, 1;74, by the Ititeroceanic CanalComnmissionc, consisting of' Andrew A. Humvhreys, brigadier general, Chief of En-gineers; C. P. Pattersen, Superintendent United States Coast Survey; aid David

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

Ammen, Rear-Admiral and Chief of Bureau of Construction, in which they unani-mously report that, "after a long, careful, ant minute study of the several surveys ofthe various routes across the continent, the Nicaragua route possesses, both for con-struction and maintenance of a canal, greater advantages and offers fewer difficultiesfrom engineering, commercial, and economic points of view, than any one of the otherroutes."

Mr. Morris also submitted replies to the following questions heretofore presented tohim in writing by Mr. Whitthorne. The questions aro as follows:

1. You claim that you have a concession for a canal, &e., across Nicaragua; if so,from whom obtained and when I State the extent of said concession and what younow claim to be your rights thereunder.

2. What action have you or your associates taken under it ?3. What interference by the Nicaraguan Government or other parties has been

made ?4. If you claim the route under your concession is I he best acros. the isthmus, what

evidence have you to support this view ?5. If your concession is perfect and legal, and it is shown to be the baest route, do

you antl your asoeiates ask any protection from United States ioweriuent 16. If not this alone, do you wek or require aid in any way froci United States Gov-

ernment ! If so, in what way, and to what extent?The following are the answers:1. The claiin of myself and associates is based upon ti uninilpaired rights conferred

upon tile Atlantic and Pacilic Ship Canal Conpany by the Rlepublic t' Nicaragna in149 anti 180, as above set forth on pages" 1 to 8 inclusive.""2 and 3. The persistent efforts made hy us fllr several years past to obi ain a recogni-

tion of our rights, and the refusal of such recognition byNicaragiua, and flie action ofits executive in making a concession to another party, directly interfering with ourexclusive rights, as above set forth on page "9th."

4. The report of the Iuteroceanic Canal Conimission pr,,stauted to the Prc.dient ofthe United States on 7th February, Ir4, reterred to on ?Ipage 10."5 and t. Such aid from the Iovernnient of the United States, by it., diploinicy or

otherwise, as in its wisdom and its power I may he deeted requisite to obtain frovil theGovernment of Nicaragna its recognition of tl rights confi'arred upon tilt- Atlantic ndPacific Ship Canal tonpany to uild a (anal across the territory oa that republic, andits admission that these rights remain uniipaired i favor of flat companily and i sstockholders.

Mr. CoNa1iI. You reforflTed to some stateiment by the Nicaraguan (lvernnmltit thatthe depth of water in Lake Nicaragua was not sutivient.

Mr. Moinmus. The depth of water was only 14 feet at that point, and the NicaraguanGovernment thought that that would le auk objection. As a nattvr of course it lhasto be shared out by dredging.

Mr. SINt.m,'ToN. By constant dredging ?Mr. omous, Prohably.Mr. CoNa;En. Is there anytlihig that throws sedinient in at that paintMr. Maants. Yes ; tle- rivers flowing ill tlhare d,'l.asit sedimemit all thi' tinme.The CHAIRMAN. ]illt there is imi difficulty in kecligt te monti oathe li'el ol.n .Mr. M IoItjiusaN, No difliaulty at all.

TIhxe CItAIIUMAN. No lifliatltv cumbal'abl to fltl' Sue' tIZatal !Mr. Mtmuns. Not at all.The CiAIRtMAN. Is there a gaod breeze on tho lakeMr. M[ons. Yes, aut vessels coul always be tugg'd. Tliro is aluaat t6) or 70

miles of lake navigation, where vessmels would probably have to bea tugged. Still,vessels would lie there for three or fiur days for the rltit'aso oft having their bottomscleaned. That would be always at consi eration for vessels that have leen a longtime at sea..

The CHAIRMAN. I suppose that the lake is a good har'lrboaMr. MoRtIs. A& goil its can lie. Thikere is tto allgi'r to a v..essal iii the lite'.Mr. ('oNE. i -yun knoaw tht character of the country aratalii' th ika ail along

the river; I ln'an a's to its witness for settlenelit and eliliviatiOln ?'Mr. Maoatts, There wold hei' mtthl'inelts in difl'ermint pliaces. Thel i'aalitkry is r'ely

ri('l ineliid. It is all lit to' ('(fele plallntatiolns alll fit' ('tth' farils.Mr. (omitu. What is your idea as to the healthfuiess Of the a'itryMr. MaiRRis. There was ia survey luail iaoU the lake to Monikey Paia (in the

Atlantic) by a cat'ops of Etiglish engines. There were W29 of then who wa'r there, Ittuppose, for 7 or 6 inionths, and thlier wasn't a aso of sickltits aniiOlg th(e nunier.I saw the chief of the party when lit, returned to New York, and lie told lil. faltt Ifthere is an Eden on earth it is iLAtwi'en the lake anal Monkey Point. He sail that itis the most beautiful climate he ever experienced ald is peribectly healthy. His menwere exposed and slept out every night, and yet not one of them'got sick'.

26 INTEI)CEAN1( SHIIP CANALt

Till-( CIIA IRMAN. Its N seit Vliii t hal (,ita11ve. -itill a Aguod t it s' tivi- that grant fromShe Nicat agiuml (;ov rnen i'ii'

Mir. M1, : 1 i4 Yv'. m. v. hist 1T 1 h IN v 11:1v 't. 41 i'i ri t if)tabuihi the vaanai. Most ofthe- puir it- ita art Otl ill it art .1 Iv s. %%10Itl fil 1:1t11- For' Is i t(e transit soislIaly. We

11 1 1 111:1 e l -, t ac he' 1-1lsll I hier. %% intils wc Ij ha lIr 11 i/t'd at g reat c'I xpensi. and every-I hi ti - c a~- ri td t ms i Ii i. \V I lusi t II liIc "ip i i: - ,I lra I vi-.-(i a it sh IipIs ini New

o rk. an-I ,%.' hail all dw naraii'emesIil il itl ai'rti'.s. \ ititer ali' as 1:skinpg mar pius-

Ni4t~l. 11 'i t, I. tli' 11 ait'' fittll- paiti iin %&i i~tit i--l notlti t i ns e ,t e M a t

ic A. , 1 1:0. It s, ii' o tv X% 'i. t N ' c' 14i1t Its'I 4-41c4 tIll 's'ilgis BA. ifo

lX':tgit i lt* hraltt ilt Nsi -\c is a nd m isia-li,act i tie t l.i.1111

Mtr. l limlo' "" ;t' I. I iti' l ic' wa.y hl it , i irt. it ihA itia taa

N15It r. 0 th4e.s(. I iv A it I Ili -1111t1i O I tt l i l I licst hI' 1 r1111 a l hi ii-':tn c'itocsry ep

N1r. M 1,c1t1 ts N 'ic;.N1r. I('5 l(, I- :. Al I i st t '.:iv that tall sni ;'s' lit.sth tolt~tti ll tl arthiie ' p int

Mir. Mitlil.1'c.. e ha vi c''iiieits si lgiiltinwt hs N(lrglnf

r'.t M 5: 1. 1: ha c : gis lI't-I. I i ' 1-il'e -i ttc I I on 'aI lit In ' i s hi -itgti w: t h I,. I s t i lW s 11 .14 .)lslts t ls Ii' tg \1 itti11 Il c litti gil14 \%i. thcre'1a s t's wh t 111,r I n. 'i l d [-lr'lii till ew

t \t's. The lili iti tj lts illy " icti cgs of 11111 Yv," Wlbtt ' t Ic o l 5( h t her~ I-1'111 il htil

.\t '.ic k v. Ih ad stit i k ntis', %s% ,It Nt Ts sti is mw gscstittl that- wecti ai hlitioe thrw.

V fr. ('cI c :t:. % 'v:1.. h lic'c ' iiltt 'c~sst I r~alfo rv l 1 v 511 . p it' miles 'iiili to the.1al 1-

kit'. ' 1-0 it. lct il [ h i il till ' A fili-(i f h N vdic'iIC lal t., pnin i

thi't Nt cisalIllc 144 ill i'll. 'ii vItis xItt.iiipi d lalm

Tr iits- CH INN- . v I 't' lII Ir I'll ve il, 'altci lcai clii s ' n i that' su jct'? Ili'st l l

Mr That iii'Nsirt llt ily vcta's 1 c'1it iii it. I slete hiav sisal uf rs t h a c ts li sitit oiligli,' 'scitsii'-icc.it I'Il 1\1 I ti nk t' it co uld~ )it- bulil il- I vlsiii' r nsi ort' more.lv h '

I WI tisi it ' I sc isa 1ic str ticmy Is NSc t hi s gi It-iril 'I'idlatwis c s'iri kssnet it'ite fiicrts is iht tstis'sIt

Mr. (Ici I't. ''s'r'i. tlttrii~~iin x'ich 'itrai it rigtg Ilem t

.it- t s'Niuts s'scia Ws. its it-ia'i cnstant ttu i to woceusith ve fltisa' atiythtg

411o% t liii s , t at I \'sili r ilti n ,,,w ehe ec udn tarn em t

I

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 27-Mr. MoR is. No. We refused to assent to that. We would not venture to go into

their courts. Capitalists are very chary indeed. The canal would have been builtif the Nicaraguan Government had not seized our property.

The CIHAIRMAN. You take the ground that N our htiaving there was in consequenceof being driven out by ti Nicaraguan governmentt ?

Mr. M.1 uls. ,Vo were literally driven out. I was president of the coiimaiiy mtila certain time when we wanted steamahils to run it. Then I resigned, and Mr.William Il. Web11, of New York, took my place. Mr. Webb was tlien lite owner (if asufficient tmilluer of stenmsiips to i-un tI' route. But the moment he iecaio presi-dent of the company, lie got into dithiculties also within he Nicaraguan (Governtent.They played the same giwme again with hli ,. and grabbed the prolierly.

The CiIAIRMAs. And the [ nited States Governimeit never protected you in yourrights?

Mr. Motauis. No. When our li'olrty was seized, in 1863. or 15.64, or 156;5 (I forgetthe exact o,*le), I went to se Mr. Seward ani Mr. Litivoln. They said that thly wereholud i"o do anything in t lie world for its, liecause the right was on our side. Mir.Lincoln asked me what N e desiredi the American (,vv'rniment to do. As a matter ofcourse, it was a very difficult Iiiitter at that time; fr I knew thieii thlt lings herewer'e ii sillh I state tilat 4iui1r goveri inicu t. did not want any furthe'1o 1tle tin its

hands. I said, I think, that we wanted a new miiiister out thIire: and, I t think, atnatw minister was appointed liv Mr. IItmiolu to ielpt us out. At that time, we Wereoly able to get hack oulr property by paying $200 t I.

Mr. Ct)N Eit. Was there aiy ne'esslary coiuite.tion htwevi't' youmr riglits as a .hili-canal company and vonr riglit as t fIralsit coim pany

Mr. Ml innus. No. sir,. Everything in regard to thi' shii-.uiml 'omlpmy was t'leara nd distinct.

Mr. CoNmIE.I Aun tihe seizure of ymr hoat, and property had refirnc'e iialy to yourright. a4 a tr'asil'iilli \" ?

Nir. ioiltlm,. That is alt.AI r. Cl ix;I EI. Amid not to yumr rights is a i'ana compantiiit"iiyMr. Mt tulis, Nii, sir: t te Nicaragua I v'rlmin I nevtr mit' a1 isition of thatkind.The CHAIRMAN. 1iou thiik tOat t huy wire .imply hhackniilin ig yonMr. Moiins. In tI' first place. I think tin: thev weri nigeil on t(iy opiositiol Com-

planies-thy tlie 'ana llu Rtiload Compauuy, and by 014 l'Iatilie Mail Steam ship Cim-paty l IIact, I know that the4y wer. I knlow that tlhtse coilianlim'S induihed tleN ']C;fie~ gu government to do what it sliiul n t do.

Mr. SiNGLE N'. I)ots tlhe Nii'aragulalit ( OVNlrllmint no\V deny your right to tifild acanal ?

Mr. Mt i lmus. I do uot know that it d1OeS. But the m.iig of a t'uti10 f Illlion thil-lar and tilt, usi+ig of a hiniidri't d million iloltairs is a ery dlitl' ,mit thlinl1g. I wioildundertake to get lit money to buinl the canat. ulit I hold certainly exp,'et to getunost of it ill Eu ript. It tots been l'lonised Io me there by twi or thre di'i'rut liar-ties at differelit titlies. I believe tlat I could get it there. " But it I W'nt their I shotilthave to go with very clan hands intend. There shohilt not I aly doubt abolit otiiinterest biing sustained iy some government or ither.

Mr. IIASKELL.. Y(ii Wint tti haVe this qnestiol' of your rightIs all setted , wvith ourgovernment htliid you I

,Ar. Monurs. Of'courm.Mr. h[ASK Iur.. So clar that nohiodytv tan hlestiol your rights?Mr. Mouxis. I want it so thai there, shall he no question about it. It' I go to Lou-

don o; Paris and want to get ni1olicy, I mo11lst hav' the best doct'uImtiis in support ofmy rights,

Air. IIA-ic.LI.. And what ycu desire is iome action on the part ofouir government tounravel the kitots, to clear lp your titIt and to fix up your rights iii lie matter?

Mr. MORRIS. I suppliose that this government wolt grant is lilt i rlitl'rti'tioii. Ian ot mire but that that wild do. If we had an ineorpora iin by I his government,I Atippose that I eult go to Nicaragua aund settle evrytimig w ilth the Nicaraguan Gov-ernment. I bave had more inthrcourss with the Nicaraguan Govelmi'nt tliaii I sup-pose anybody else iii this country. Whatever I prinised that govem'ini'lt I alwayspertornied. A great nmny part's prOmisltd champagnee and oyster," and the Nitar',-guas didn't get them, lit I only promised "hrtad and i'hese ani they gut tIn' breadand cheese. That was about the story. I futltlh(d every eligagt'npilit i of liille withthe Nicaraguan Government, and tl'y wotld fitki' ny wverl to-nrrow for anything.My ideal is that if Ne do not take Kome action in the 'matter, tile caml will pass intofoi'oign hands, ant, if' it dot', tte committee can perceive what cnplicatiois ntayarise.

Mr. ('O ;ER. The Nilaraguan governmentt having for mo long a I ite ignored yourrights and tried to throw a shadow upon then, do you think that you taii t'stmiie thoe

28 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

rights peaceably from that government better than a new company can get additionalrights from itfir. MORRIS. I suppose so, because our rights would stand in the way of any new

company. You cannot get the hohrs of these rights to throw them away. Theyhave expended a great deal of inoney upon them and you cannot expect them to throwthem away. If the question should come up between an American company and aFrench Counpany, for instance, it appears to mue that our government should lend itsaid to an American company.

Mr. Co.%.Ft. Suppose that this conimittee should think that some other route shouldbe reconlmellde( ; then your rights in the matter would drop of course?

Mr. MOns. We would walk right out.Mr. Co,;En. But, suppose the committeee should determine that your route is the

one that should be adopted for the canal, are you in any position to show to this con-mittee, or to Congress, that you are to-day any better prepared to fulfill the old condi-tions with the Nicaraguan Government than mi were before; and are you in a posi-tion to deniand rights which this government could take a hand in enforcing f Youhave not said anything on that point.

Mr. OI(RRIS. I was only arguing tlhe right or wrong of the matter, not our ability tocarry out the contract. But I have no doubt that in six months we could raise all themoney to mild the canal.

Mr. CO, NGER. You meani with your presem organization?Mr. Momuis. I mean with an organization bIwswdl upon our ol rights recognized by

Nicaragua, and recognized in a measure by this government.Mr. ' LiEl. Is this corporation which you have referred to represented by shares .Mr. Mmnums. It ii. •Mr. ('O)N;. It V h 11w lany sharesMr. Momus. There are 19"2 parts.Mr. CovoNi,. At what par valuationMr. M hl:liIS. There was no par valuation.Mr. Cf 4NfiEIt. Was it based upon the estimaate of your ,xlenses?Mr. Molls. It is hard to say what the thing has cost.Mr. (0')NO4 i:nl. What capital was it s1ppl"'ed woffld be required to build th, canal .Mr. Ivhnimts. Tie iilea tlien was that. twenty-five ifillion dollars would be required

to mild the canal which wo lprop4sefl to hi141.Mr. C0 .-n;mI. Did that include improving the San Juan River ?Mr. Momus. It included making the navigation complete between the two oceans.Mr. tlASKEI... Your original sehemie was to open up a line of water comllnication

for the peculiar craft used by your eotipany 1Mr. Ml 3iliIs. Yes, that was our original scheme.Mr. tl sA:FI.L. Not to transfer ocean stealilers by the canalMr. ttlms, .No, sir.Mr. CNO4En. Did liat twenty-five millions include a canal between the lake and

the Pacific .Mr. MoYns. %es.Mr. ( 2oxiwn. For the class of loats which you proposed to run.Mr. Mt iu,, Fom tlm class of boats which we proposed to run.Mr. l ;' iE!. Yolr original plan never contemplated an interoceanic canal open to

the wtorlilMr. Ifi imus. It wold have been open to the world, and would have taken vessels

of .1t0 or -'10 tus, amil probaldy larger. But now a canal is wanted to take vesselsof 6,000It tonus, which, of' course, is altogetler a different matter. It is the locks thatare going to cost so immlich nioney.

Mr. ('NN'li. Who are now tle, owners oif theqe 192 pdrtsMr. m uius. I think that every onie of the owners resides ill New York.Nlr. ('(}NimIn. Are there any foreign holders of any of then IMr. M nIs., There is not a foreign holder.Mr. IIAmSKELL. YOU belie-ve that you possess rights that are tangible, and that can

le proteutel. and you believe that it is in the power of your organization to raise themoney and to Ihud a ship canal, provided the ited States Government insures yourproperty anl investment against loss, or against confiseation and seizure by any for-eign lower In other words, if the Goveranent of the United States extends protec-tion to y.mr company, you believe that you can make the canal ?

Mr. Morims, Yes. sir; I had a conversation with Admiral Animen some months ago.Talking about time organization of the company, I told him that when Mr. Cardenaswas here the Nicaraguan Government offered to make a new concession to GeneralGrant and myself. That was four or five years ago. At that time, however, it wasimpossible to; 4o anything in the matter, as the surveys were not made ani as a gooddeal of uncertainty existed. Until the surveys were made our hands were tied., IMid: "There is nose in having an organization at this timc, until we know that thisis going to be tIle chosen route for the canal, If it is not going to be the chosen route

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 29I do not want to have anything to do with it." I told Admiral Aminen how the Nio-araguan Government had seized our property, and how recklessly it had done so, andI said to him: "Do you suppose that if General Grant was president of this companythe Nicaraguan Government would venture to seize that proprty " I was the per-son who made the suggestion to him that General Grant was the best man for presi.dent of the company.

Mr. CONGER. Have yoU any -neans of knowing he x views of our State Departmentin reference to your claim; have you had 4.imsultiations with the President or with theState Department on that subject ?

Mr. MoRIs. I know what, the views of Mr. Fish were when he was Secretary ofState, because lie wrote them to tne. He did not wish the government to interfere inthe matter unless we were injured in our rights.

Mr. CONGER. alave you any means of knowilng the views of the present adninistra-tion or the present Secretary of State

Mr. MORRIS. I think they are th sailue as Mr. Fish's. I do not think that t here hasbeen any change in that matter.

Mr. CONGER. Have you hand onsuIltations with either the President or Secretary ofState on this sublect, or any oinunieation vith them r

Mr. MoRis o, sir: I have not, only inliretly. I believe that Mr. Evarts is ofthe same opinion as Mr. Fish was. I do iot 0114k that theme has ben any change inthe views of till' State Delprtmuet on tilt stihl('jet.

Mr. (UoNGER. That is, that it would not be' ini favor of asserting the power of thisgovernment in the present status of affairs in bwit!t' of your conipany ?

Mr. MiioIs. I never pul. the question to tflm,'n in that way.Mr. C )NG E. I umlerstood you to say that it14! gvi'rin'uit, woml interfere iii the

protection of your rights if they were positively a-saihed.Mr. Mlonitis. Yes, sir; in vase our rights wen. positively assailed.Mr. HASKELL. It' you went thwre and e.oliilve1l bildiig ' Canal, andl if there was

another corporation, indelienhent of yours, illgageed in tle like work. you think thatthis government should protect on in your prol..rt.N, and you want nothing furtherthan that I

Mr. Momtats. Nothi g further than that..Mr. SINGLETON. Was not Volnr protection guarauteod by a subsiqueint treatyMr. MoRtIs. The Claytoli-l1htmwer treaty was aterwirds; hut this govrnnnt

clainied that that treaty was violated by the ac'tiou of the British ({ove'rnient inmaking a contract with the Mosquito king for part of his territory. It is a curiouscircumstance that I, ulyself, now hold the territory that the Mosquito king ceded tothe British Government. That is Monkey Point. '

Mr. S INGLETON. Is that any part of the coast through or to which this canal wouldhave to run?

Mr. MoRts. It has been always supposed that Monkey Point must be the harbor;and when I had this canal surveyed, sonie 15 years ago, the engineer of that surveyingparty advised ne to obtain the cession of that property-which I did.

Mr. SLNGLETO.N. You say that you hold the title to it.Mr. MontIs, Yes.Mr. CONOER. Do you mean at the mouth of the San Juan RiverIMr. Mojutis. Yes; at the mouth of the San Juan. I have here printed minutes

(exhibiting to the conunittee) showing a mnecting of our company in 1870. I will leavethem with the committee, together with the map which I have exhibited (showingthe profile of the canal as surveyed).

The Cu AIRMAN. In seeking capital to build a canal across the isthmus, would it bemore or less advantageous for you to have American protection

Mr. Mouts. I would have nothing else. I would not touch the matter with anyother protection.

The CuAijtu.N,. And you would flnd it more easy to obtain money for building thecanal if it was unlerstood that the canal was to be constructed uner American aus-"pices, than if it was to be constructed under foreign auspices.

Mr. MORns. Decidedly; I merely ask for an incorporation 'by this government.

WASHNGTON, D. C., February 1.0, 1$80.

STATEMENT OF MR. A. G. MENOCAL.

Mr. FRYX (to Mr. Menoeal). State what connection you have had with the surveyson the isthmus relative to a canal.

Mr. MuNocAI. I have been connected with the surveys on the isthmus from March,1872, until, I may say, the present time, for the reason that, when not actually at work

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

on the groin, I have been more or Iess engaged in conl e i r and il.prfectilIg tleplains .1114 elimate~s pertainling to the-se s-1riveys.31r. .'itYE. With what eXle'ditions have w.mi heen (, lelt'I ?Mr. M.:.x.lcA L. With the Il'nited Sitates expedlitionis to Nicaragua and Panama, 1ini-

der the 'imuiitd of Cominmi'r. Uill and latfield.Mr. IVuit.'. What leiigth of time did .pm remain there ?Mr. M .tICA1. 1 relaii10d ill Nicarama fi'mir nionths iidi Commaii.er Hatfield in

1871, and six m1nt11 s miller ('omma ilhr liII iii PS73. Sitbs.eliwnly I have been inNicaraguai o threv .1i th'rt 'v 1 ocaNions l for tilt, turlMso of making a tlroigh survey ofililt' vailev of ti, river Sai .1ill :ii11111 Irgve .' c iof hIM the river. with a view of design-ing a systie litf woi'ks intended to v.,tablish a line, of' water comintinication from tileharbor oIt' I revtipW i to lit' iv r Maui .e Sn hi above tlie river Colorado, and also to Coof-pl.te l1a1s fo' tilie iil'Ovetient of the harbor of Greytown. During these surveys Ireitiim id it] Nil I'll (rim ill til, aggreate about twelve months, constantly cngfage(' illthe fiehlI \vt .rl: i lit, plains I'eing voipl'eted on oy ret iirn to t lie united Stat es. I hailthus the *i1 iortiillity of Iilaining intich valialdl. infoimatil relative to the locationof tilie line tor th le inleril a'iiic ('aiml a ,Ilr'vevy'd bv the 'united States expeditiolls,and 1) hl.arn from a v~arefiil examination ot t iol~ogr'aphov ,t' the volintry traversed by

jie 'anal \ ' le material changes iM lti be introdii.d'in tilt original 'location thatweotild iolsiclliraily rediie th estiliates 1ilhuihitt'il with the otlicial reports of' thatrolte.

Mir. I"rtvi:. What hugh if tiie ha ve von I ieui on the 1 aua11111 rolte .

Mi'.M,:Nto 'Al I wa. eglagi'gd (lIi the survey fit raiii rite a44 t'111' iuonthsili 1,75.

Mr. l"WIYe. Veto\ o1I over the i% hlie' of itAll, Mrl.:twm_\l, I wvas ovetr the wlmle of it, '1nd4 over tlt- linera, e.Jd fo~r the )(tile-

fillt to siupply lhe enlma with water.Mr. l:!Y:. Have 'iml been con'uete1 with any Il lier iilitt'sMr. ME '.AL. No, sir: not ii tlit, surveys.Mr, l"ttyl' (Give is your exl"'riice thingin g tili Panama rowe, its advantages andits jlis'ui v'antIne.;.

Mr. Ml.N0C,lu. The lVallltages tf tht Paiania route are : the shortness of tile dis-tllcev fron lle l o(eatll to tilt- other (itsh'gt, as located by) tile l'llited States expedti-tit, lbeiing 41f miles), good harbors at either end-otne is coiMsidcri'il to bie very good,the otlnmir ol i' nade so iV the coistrl'ttioni of a btreakwater.

Mr. l.'ivt.. Which oiei is the very good one ?Mr. MENOi'AI. The Bay of Panama. Two other alivailtig's that may be named are

an pen t with a moderate average depth of excavation, and its proximity to a wellconstrleted railroad. Ti disadvantages ar', a comparatively high summit level andthe required inber of locks to overcome that elevation , the prevailing calms ofPanama Ray, causing long delays to sailing-vessels.

Mr. CONt;EI. Do youi refer to the Panalna Canal as a raised canal, or as a sea-levelcanal I

Mr. M.i' ',L. I refer to a lock-canal as was located by the United States expe-dition.

Mr. ('0n(;iN:. Has a sea-level canal ever been estimated for!.Ir. MN.oCAT,. Not by tilt' United States expedition. After a careful examination

of t lie toptolgraphy of the isthmus, a sea-lvel canal was consideredi impracticale, atleast, iin a commercial sense. Other oblje'tions to this route are, the large amount ofulder walter excavation in the Bay of Panania, requisite, in order that vessels mayapproach the lanal at all states of the title; the rise and fall of the title, which amountsto '2"2 feet : tilt, want of interial for coiistrtuition lmrltps's; the character of sonie ofthe swa rop-lanlls in tlinttle of the canal; a feedt'r ten miles in length; the necessityof a viadct to. cross the river t'hngres: doubtful supply of water at certain seasons ofthe year : insalbrity of the isthmus ; large depth of rainfall, amounting some yearsto 150 inlihes; large estimated cost as compared to other routes more to the northand, iinally, as ' compared to more northern lines, the greater distance of Panama fromthe ports upion the west coast of the United States. At the time the survey was made,the Uhagres River was found to contain sufficient water for the working of tle canal,bult suillseqiently I passed through Panama at the latter part of the dry season, andobserved that the volume of the river was at least one-third less than when gauged bythe ofhtirs of tile expedition during the months of February and Mart h, 1S75.The ('1;AIRMAN,. You are now considering a canal with locks.Mr, IMENOCAL. Yes, sir; that is the only canal we located aiid estimated upon.Mr. S1NGLETON. Did I understand you to say that there were no building materials

the'e IMr. MENOCAL. Very little building material fit for purposes of construction. No

rock was found that could be used for dimension stones, and it is quite doubtful that anycould be obtained suitable for concrete walls or foundations. There is a quarry of lima-stone along the line of the railroad; but this stone is so soft and porous that it would

"NTEROCEANIC SIhIP CANAL 31

not bei'a to Ilse, it il tile construction of lovk,, and perhaps not even in the (onstrile-tion of a br'akwter. Snne otm-stoleof fail- ,luatitv was fwnu inar Empire and onthe banks of th river ('hagres, but this was ,111 I ioot witfIi ill small q11:i lit ies and atfa~r dist'tnt point s. herer, is a gr,,at abndan,'e of large tilibr at ,,eltaill ioinits-on

the line of the canal, bit Ihis is tol soft and altogether miinilale fior permanent stric-tinres. All t lie I fiber rqu irvll for the ('onstr 't ion and telra irs of wharves aild build-ings, bo1th at Aspinwall and Patialia, it iliporttll fromi th United States, and tile tiesand telegraph poles fir the railro:id are brought at great expense from other States tothe soth of Panama.

Mr. DoN;1nu. I) yon liean that tht i. tilt character of the stone all the way clearacross tlt isthuitis ?

Mr. ENtotAI,. 'lhe character of tl stone is very variable. There is found a greatdeal ofsoft limestone, llitiglh)Oterate, soft saludtl)n, som1e trap rock and indiuralcd clay.At t of theUse stonest are misnitabhU ftr tow c rurtioln Ilf works rt-otiirin.g greatt4 strength.

Mr. ComNiI'.'R. IR thero* no ]hl'iz~ntal stem, fid ihl'e, inl li .Ners?

M NIOCAL. NO, sir: it is all hrid .i nl,, ti.,st'cd, and mixed with other inatl-rials,as clay', sandl, gre,!~p, &e.M r. ,I II.T N.W ith tieqll eta c - v .,i, f01-'131oll~l.M r. NIPNOCtAL. YUS, sir.Mr. ' )NI ERt. W}ht is the charattr of t~l rollltry tlurolih which t1w'ealj would

riii fo~r any a%'tilable Ptirlose Of 1ettleMV10 and agritldt lrit,

31r. MET'he .. 'here is but little 1.il allqg tlI lile of the enn'u tl:it would bes8lit alili .f1r set t lenent folr agricultural nllposes. Binanas .rt, rai~l ill small paltcwsalong tilt' iaiload, bit the" A Ir general l 'y iI, r as t')lllred vith t ho.e ri iseil inother portions Of Central Anerici. 11h- ist initel .ost tl h I4prIp cm. ra il hy PIta-area is about :I) millions rremater than thatt ' it lall by Niaurag-li, while. I Ile ilist'ulebetween New York anl San l'raiwiseo would he 6I,0 miles i-vatvr hy :li, first route,

Mr. FRtYE. I)o you mean 150 miles one way .Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir ; 65I miles on thle Pacitic side. (ni the Allantiv side Asipin-

wall ani (reytown are about the s it: distance froll New York.Mr. CONGER. What do yon understand aihout tilt, Bay of 'itnaa as to its advii-

tages for sailing-vessels ? Is it cal th vreMr. ACENOCAL. YPls, sir: ealis prevail in tl tay of Panama at all seasons Of the

year, and at tilmis they il ev to tellious th'a't stiiliuig-Vessls t llaV41t li tiitx \cill mit stv-eral hundred miles before they strike fiavoralde w itlds.

Mr. CONGER. Through what extent of territory does that caln region prov' il ?Mr. MENtoCA. I have the authority of Lieutenant Maury in saying that it extends

about 7110 miles.Mr. CoNomt. North and south as well as west of that pointMr. MENOCAL. Yes. Commander Lull and Lieutenant Collins, who l here, are

experienced naval officers and will be able to give you information oii that point.Lieutenant Manry, speaking of these calms, said that " It isdiflictult to convey, to onewho has never experienced them, aii idea of the obstinacy with which they vex navi-gation. We are all familiar with calns at sea, which last for a few holiurs or even a(day, hut here they last for days and weeks at a time. I have known vessels going toand froni Panama to he detained by them for months at a time. On one occasion tileBritish admiralty, wishing to send one of their vessels into the Arctic Ocean front Pan-am' in time to save tile season, had her towtd by a steamer through this cahn-heltand carried 700 miles out to sea before she could find a breeze. These remarks applyto the approach and departure by sia to or from the Pacific ter-inus of any routeacross the Istlinius of Panama, or Darien, and even with greater firce to the At ratoanti others on tile South America side of Panama." And he adds, ', If nanre, by oneof her convulsions. should rend the continent of Anirica in twain and make a chan-nel across the Isthmus of Panama, or Darien, as deep anl as wide and as free as theStraits of Dover, it would never become a colilmercial thorlifghfitr for sailing-vessels."The passage under canvas from Panania to California is considered by him and byMr. Hull, master of Her Majesty's ship hIavannah, one of the most tedious, tincertail,and vexalious that is known to navigators.

Mr. HfUTCIHINS. At tle time you helped in the survey of the Istlhmlus, you came tothe conclusion that a mea-level canal at Panama was impracticable ?

Mr. MF 'oCA,. I cannot say as an engineer that it is impossible, but I say that itwas considered impracticable in a commercial sense.

Mr. t[UTCHINA. For those various reasons you have given ?Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; and others that may be named against it, such as the great

depth of cutting requisite to cross the dividing ridge and the difficulties of divertingthe river Chagres, and providing for a perfect and permanent system of works thatwould preserve the canal free from the surface drainage of the adjacent water-shed.

Mr. HUTCiNa. Have you read what Mr. Dircks says about it.Mr. MJNOCAL. Yes, sir; such a& has been published in the newspapers.

32" INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

Mr. HUTCHINS. What, do you think of his ability as an engineer fMr. MENOCAL. I think he is a very able man.Mr. HUTCmiNs. Hos he any superior in the world for engineering of that kind t

Take the construction of the canal in Holland, the difficulties overcome there and thereclaiming of the marshes. D o you not consider that he stands as an engineer at thehead of his profession ?

Mr. MENOCAL. I think so.Mr. HUTCHINS. If lie should say that he consideres a sea-level canal at Panama

entirely feasible and practicable, would you still adhere to your opinion as againsthis?

Mr. MENOCAL. I wuldd in the sense I have stated; for this reason: that Mr. Dircksdoes not know enough of the American isthmus and its physical characteristics toform a reliable opinion on the subject. The plan he now recommends for overcomingthe difficulty of the ('lhagres was proposed to the Paris congress by Lieutenant Wyseand objectedI to by Mr. l)ireks and Mr. Conrad (his associate in the Holland canal),ts meliers o, a ciminiitt ee of the technical commission, on the ground that it could

not be considered safe- to have such an enormous body of water stored so many feet(175 feet) above the level of the water in the canal, dependent on the stability of adaim over 1:1) feet high and one mile long built on a volcanic soil.

Mr. FRYE. Have this' various surveys of the Panama route that have been madeunder our gov-eranjucnt been muade with an inclination on the part of the authorities toadopt that rmolle, it' pr:cticable, or have they been made adversely as criticism on thatroute I

Mir. MENOCAj.. They wire made for the purpose of ascertaining which route was thebest.Mr. INuiJITTiN. '!;huey wre experimental sr-veys?

Mr. NIENOCAL. Yes, sir; they were experimental surveys imade without any prejudiceon the part of the offivers. I do mot kiow any officer 4if the several expeditions whohad any desire that the canal should be built iii one place in prefcrl'nce to another.(Jar efforts were directed to filing the best route.

Mr. Fi. What was vour' estimnae of' the cost of the Panama route IMr. MINON u'AI.. Ninety-foir million five hundred and eleven thousand three hundred

amnd sixty dollars, adopting the same saide of prices allowed for the Nicaragua route.these e prices, I believe. would le found too low for the Panama route, on account ofthe want of ialterials suitable for the construction of the works proposed and the depthot' amnual rainfall there heing greater than in Nicaragua.

Mr. SINGLETON. Do I understand you to say that you made an instrumental exami-iiation of the Panama ronte I

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir: we made an instrumental location of the line.Mr. HuTrciums. lI ave you any other objections to the Panama route than those which

you have expressed to the committee IMr. MENOCAL. No, sir; I do not think of any other. Possibly I may have omitted

some of the objections to it, as I have no notes before me.Mr. ItTCmNs. Admiral Aunuen made a statement to the committee that the prin-

cipal olkjection to the Panama route in his mind was the rainfall-that if a sea-levelcanial were used, the floods there would at times produce a current running eight milemto the hour, which would make 4t impracticable to use the canal during a large partof the year.

Mr. MENOCAL. That evidently would be the ease if the river Chagres and its tribu-taries were admitted into the canal; but the advocates of that route as a sea-levelcanal have proposed to divert those rivers into new channels independent of the canal.Without a tide-lock at Panama the ocillations of the tide would produce a current ofabout 5 knots per hour in the canal, which would impede navigation to a great extent;this difficulty, however, can be overcome at a comparatively small expense.

Mr. FRtY-. You hav'o been discussing this Panama Canal as a lock canal, not as at ide-eanal.

Mir. MENo AL. I have been discussing it as a lock-canal, except when replying toquestions rterring toi a tide-caual.

i'. litTcUMNs. I understood Admiral Amnmen to say that assuming a sea-level canalcoihl lie imilt, the rainfall thero was such that the water iii the canal would be at times40 feed aive the highest tide, and would produce a current running at the rate of 8mihts an lour to the east.

Mr, MEN.OCAL. Should thel adjoining country be allowed to drain into the canal, whatyou have stated would evidently take place.

Mr, lur'm.vs. Admiral Amuien said that for considerable portions of the year itwould ho impo'uible to use the canal. and that ships would have to remain there forweeks, not being able to pas through. Is that your opinion ?

Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; under the conditions he stated. That difficulty, however,is proposed t be overcome by diverting the Chagres and other streams into new chan-nels so as to keep the canal partially free from surface drainage,

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 33Mr. IUTCHENS. It; by diverting the Chagres River, you get ridof that objection which

Admiral Ammen stated to the committee, and if you have a sea-level canal you get ridalso of the objection which you make as to the want of water on that route, then theonly objection that you can have, so far as that roule is concerned, would be the cli-mate and the fact that you cannot find materials to construct a sea-wall and break-water ?

Mr. MENOCAL. And also the tide-locks and the prevailing calms in the Bay of Pana-ma. I do not admit, however, that the works prol)sed tot a sea-level canal can besucessfully executed at a cost that would bring reasonable returns to the stockholderswithout overtaxing the commerce of the world intended to be benefited by the canal.

Mr. HUTCHINS. That being the case, what is your opinion about the working of thecanal after it is constructed ; comparing a sea-level canal with that of a canal havingtwenty locks ?

Mr. MENOCAL. The traffic-carrying capacity of the canal would be the same in bothcases, since every ship going through either canal must be locked; but in a lock-canalof the same length there will be an additional delay equal to tle tune required to passa lock multiplied by the number of locks in the canal.

Mr. HUTCuINS. Take a small craft passing through the canal; of course in a sea-level canal she goes right through ; btut in a locK-canal she has to be locked through,and at the same expense as a vessel of 5,000 tons burthen is locked through.

Mr. MENOCAL. Just the same.Mr. HUTCIIINS. Would not that entail an enormous expense (taking slips of all

kinds) in addition to the expense of going through a sea-level canal?Mr. 3ENOCAL. Yes; it would be an additional expense to the (lcanal company; each

lock would have a certain number of men detailed to work it without any regard tothe size of vessels going through.

'Mr. HUTCHINS. Could a small craft pay the expense .Air. M iNOe.,,.. That woul defend on tit number (of such crafts going through, and

on their tonnage, as tolls would be charged to vessels according to their carryingcapacity; and the earnings of the canal will depend on the number of tons goillgthron gi in a given time, and not on the number or size of vessels. Every shithatgoes through tIe sea-level canal will also have to be locked.

Mr. HUTCHINS. Yes; at each end.Mr. MENOCAL. She woul have to go through the tide-lock, which would cause a

longer delay than to pass a lock on the line of the canal. Taking the Nicaragua route,as anm example of a lock-canal, tile increase o' delay by that route over tile sea-levelcanal by Panalma would be about twenty minutes, or say half all hour at each lock,and a lroportional delay to their res lective lengths. That would, doubtless, bring allincrease of expense both to the cana company and the ships going through, hut thecamal call be constructed at so luch less cost that this disadvantage would be fullycompensated by the comparatively small interest oil the money invested and the smallertolls charged.

The CIIAIRMAN, Is the country between the Atlantic and Pacific, on tile Panamaroute, very unhealthy I

Mr. Mm.NOCAL. It is considered to be so. We have had this experience: that, whilewe were in Nicaragua about four times hmlger than in Panama, we did not have anysickness among the different parties at work, and did not lose any men from diseasescontracted in the country. In tile four months we were in Panalla we lost one man,and three of ouroficers catlle very near losing their lives from the Chagres fever. Someof them are yet suffering from time consequences of their short stay in that country, andin a season of the year which is considered to be the wealthiest.

Mr. SINGLETON. If a sea-level canal were constructed at Panama, what what wouldbe the depth of the greatest cut f

Mr. MENOCAL. Two hundred and ninety-four feet above the level of the sea, or threehundred and twenty-two feet above the bottom of the canal.

Mr. SINGLETON. What would be the slope tMr. MENOCAL. Tile Paris congress recomlnlended a slope of one horizontal to tell

vertical from the surface of tile rock to two meters above tile water; below thispoint to the bottom of tile c'nal a verical cit was recommended.

Mr. SI GLTON. Would tile banks stand that slope IMr. MENOCAL. I believe not; not with the kind of rock found in that eollntry. I

tlink that at least a slope of one-half to one will be required to stall the eflects ofthe heavy trains and rapid disintegration bly the action Of tl(- atl1los8lllere.

Mr. SINGLETON. Cal you work more mell in a cut of that sort thanm you could in atunnel I

Mr. MENOCAL. I think you call.The CIHAIRMAN. You silke of tile Panama route being tile shortest line across tile

isthmus; is it the shortest line across the American isthlhus lMr. MIENOCAL. No, sir.The ChAIRmA, Which is the shortest?

3 INTO

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

Mr. 3i:NoC.AL. lVron tile Rio Chepo to the bay of San Bias, about thirty miles.The CiaIRM.v . Art, there any insuperalle (liticulties to constructing tit canal

there ?Mr. MEX4)CAL. A canal there is only practicable by cutting a tunnel, the length of

which has been estimated at froiii seven to ten miles. It has not been positively ascer-taimd how long thw tuninel would be, hut it vil not le less than seven miles.

The CIIAIRMAN. Is it tunnel considered an insuperalde obstacle there ?Mr. MENOCAL. No, but it would require a great deal of engineering andan immense

expends.The CAiRMAN. Has not modern science reduced very much the difficulty and ex-

lense in making tunnels,Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, hut the experience has been limited to snch tunnels as are built

for railroads; very snll as compared to the dimensions required for a ship tunnel. Atunnel 13) feet high by 0 feet wide, which seems to be the least dimension admissiblefor a ship canal, would certainly present many grave difficulties in its execution, andentail anl expense which could not be vstinuated beforehand.

The CHAIRMAN. Would the tunnel necessarily have to be as high a.8 the masts ofVessels?

Mr. MFNOCAL. I think not; some have proposed a height of only S7 feet above thelevel of the water ill the canal, which would require the lowering of masts of shipsgoing through. This operation, however, would cause much delay and inconvenienceto vessels.

The CHAIIRMAN. Have there been any estimates made as to the cost of a canal bythe San Bias route?

Mr. MENOCAL. I have seenl several estimates of the cost as prepared by differentparties, but none sufficiently iii detail for the proper understanding of the subject.They are all based on assumplt.ions as to the nature of the ground to be pierced by thetunel, and cannot be relied upon. The Paris congress estimated it at $t231,5O,000.

The CUAIRMAN. Tell us what you know about the Nicaragua route.Mr. MENOCAL The Ni aragua route extends from Greytown on the Atlantic to

Brito, on the Pacific. Its total length is 161 miles, of viic h there are 611 miles ofartificial canal, 56f miles of lake navigation, and 63 miles of river navigation. LakeNicaragua, the summit level of the canal, is about 110 miles in length by 30 mileswide, and ItY7.62 feet above the mean level of the ocean. It has a depth of over 30feet at all points, except it the alproaches to the west shore and the river San Juan,where some dredging and excavations uider water will be needed to obtain the re-quired depth| of " 4 feet. Its outlet is the river San Juan. of which 63 miles will beMade navigable as a portion of the proposed canal, by neans of four dams and shortcanals and locks to overcome the difference of level between the several reaches. Thewatershed of the river along that distance is quite small, and its volume beingmainly supplied by lake, from which it draws over 12,000 cubic feet per second, whenat its lowest stage. In fiet, tile first 30 miles has onl:- a superficial fall of 2 feet, andImiay be regarded as an extension of the lake itself ' It will lie apparent, therefore,that lio Qlrelensio need be entertained as to damages from floods, the ri;e and fallin that portion of the river being gradual. and in proportion to that of the lake,which ranges from 3 to 4 feet during the rainy semon. The canal leaves the riverSan .Juan above its confluence with the river San Carlos, its first large tributary he-low tilt lake, and from that point it follows the general direction of the valley of theriver, reacliing Greytown at it distance of 41.9 uilIs ffroii ti starting point. Two lineshave heeni surveyed from the lake to the Pacific, called tilt- Lajas and Delhnedio, fromtile namte of the streams whose vall y they follow oil leaving the lake. Their respec-tivye lengths are 1m miles and 1ui miles andl the, highest elevation of the dividingridge 43J feet and 1.14 fIret ahove the laki,, which is also the level of the proposedCalal at those. pohits. For reasons of better drainage the l)einedio route, of 14 feetextreme depth of cutting, has been recolnineded ila as the best. and estimated uplon. Oltie. Lajas rout a lmnotnlitaini stream called the io l'Grainle will necessarily havt tolie taken into the canal; the valley throtigh which it ries tfor some distance afterleetillg tilt, ('il lih.ing toto narrowto atc4omnnilate til. two channels. A more de-tailed stir\ey 1l1av Show tilt- ricticalofity of tumiltg thiss t rea lIiy an ilrti ficial ehan-iiel linto thla]ke. ledthshave its pr~esen~t hed. to he, occupied[ by cliall. Shoulld

that be pr'acticable aita s ll l ilcse, am1il there seenus to ie io serious objection inthe way, tilt estimated cost if th work wold lit' uimh reiltced and 4its I executiongreatly facilitated by reducing thilt detth of tle cit across tie divide from 1:4 feet to4:11 ftet. By this route 21 locks. 400 feet long, 70 feet wide, and 10 feet lift, havebeen proposed to overconie t]ie suminit elevation. Of these 21 locks, tii are locatedoin the Atlantic alld eleven ol tie- Pacific slope, respectively. The number of lockscan be materially reduced by increasing their lift to 15 or more tiet, which can lesafely done, as the foundations will rest on solid rock or compact, hard clay. Noneu' tilt works proposed f r thin canal in\'vol ye any doubtful elements or require greatovitrimiuerilir skill fill their iesi,rn ior execution. Thev are such as have beeni and are

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 35

now being constructed in this country as well as in Europe, and the difficulties to bemet with are familiar to the engineer. On the Pacific terminus an artificial harborwill have to he constructed. andi on the Atlantic the harbor of Greytown will haveto be restored to its original depth in the entrance channel ; but no great difficultiesare anticipated in carrying out the plans proposed.

Mr. CGN'GearR. What are the lengths, respectively, of the cuts in the 41-feet and 134-feet elevations!

Mr. MENOCAtL. Their lengths are about 7j miles in both lines. but the deel (tiltingis only 51 awiles hog. The ground rises gradually front the shore of the lake for a dis-tance of about two miles, where it attains anl elevation of about 201 fe~et. F'rot thapoint a uniform but steeper ascent takes place to tile culmiinating point in the dividingridge, whence it rapidly fails to the level of the canal at a distance of 2 iniles front thesummit, or 7j miles from the shore of the lake.

The CHAIRMAN. Would there be greater difficulty to overcome in making a harborthere than in making a good harbor at Aspinwall ?

Mr. MENOCAL. No; I (to not anticipate any greater difficulty.Mr. CoOEwit. How abont the calni region by the Nicaragua line*Mr. MENOCAL. I may be permitted to cite again the unquestionable authority of

Lieutenant Maury on that point. lie has positively afliriued that ' vessels under can-vas would, in the lain, (10 the fetching and carrying for the Nicaragua route, which,for the reasons stated before, cannot Ie done for Panama. The aggregate amountof this trade is imnense, and it is neither accommodated for l'anana nor Pananiafor it." Ilealejo (Nicaragua) is in the northern verge of the calns, and where theyhave already ceased to be vexatious to the navigator at any season. Iere are thephysical advantages of the Nicaragua route, for which it is difficult to find the moneyvalue.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any unfavorable ocean or gulf ctuT(*nts by tile NicaraguarouteI

Mr. MENO('AL.. No, sir; the approaches to the canal are all that could he desired,both on the Atlantic and Pacific.

The CIJAIRMAN. Andyou say that the healthiness of that region is good IMr. MENOC(Al- Yes, sir; very good. Neither tihe officers of thie expeditious, nor- nly-

se.lf in my subsequent trips, although living in the open air and constantly exposed 1otle weather, have ever suffered from sickness while in that country. I never heardtf any disease peculiar to the country nor of especial virulence there.

Tite CHAIRMAN. What is the character of the country around the lake .Mr. M1EgocA.. It cannot be surpassed iml the beauty of its scenery. The soil is 1pro-

doetive and its pastures abound in excellent cattle. On the West side of tile lake thecountry is thickly populated, and cofleie, sugar-cane, indigo, cocoa, corn, rice, and allthe tropical fruits are successfully and extensively raised. Valuable woods, both firconstructions and cabinet work, as well as other materials for constructious, are abund-antly found on the mainland as well as on tile several large islands ill the lake.

Mr. CONi;ER. What about employing the popilatiou of the country in the work ofbuilding the canal f

Mr. NIEN-04wA. The population is comparatively sinall, but two or three thousandmtuem could now Ib raised for aniy work undertaken in tlhe country. Should the workuf the canal be conunenced, however, it is to be supposed that the great inlux to tiltcountry of people fromn all parts of the world would cause a large demand for theprdue'ts of the country, and that the native popmlation would devote themselves to,the cultivation of the soil in preference to the arhous work of building the vaual.The labor for the canal would, I believe, have to be imported.

Mr. FRtYEm. The canal would control tile country lMr. MENN CAL. No (1o1bt of it.Mr. FnYE. How many navigable rivers arise iii Costa Rica which would have to be

used in this canal IMr. ME.1NOCAL. Not any. The canal is loated on Ile Nicaragua territory, and only

utilize-s the river San Jtian, which is controlled by Nivaragta.Mr. FRYE. So that there are no rivers that time canal would interfere with within

the jurisdiction of Costa Rica!Mr. MENOe.AL. No, sir; not any.Mr. StNsi.nxnN, Tile river that you use for the canal is on the northern botindary

of Costa WilaMr. M,,oC.L. 'Tie river San Juan that we use for the eanal is controlled entirely

by Nicaragua, who has the soverei pnty of its waters. Costa Rica clainis that herboundary extends to the right bank oi the river, from Castillo, :17 miles below thelake, to the sea ; but that point is disputed by Nicaragua. Between Castillo and thepoint where the canal leaves the river three dains would have to be constructed, one(If the abutments of which will necessarily rest on the right bank of the river. This,and the diversion of the river Ban Carlos at its continence with the San Juan is theonely claiin in which Costa Rica would have to be consulted on the subject. The lastcould lie easily avoided by taking the canal from the river San Juan above that point.

3 INTEIROCEANIC SIt 1P CANAL.

Mr. St x 1l.v rox. Ife loiilar% exteili i glI) fto filt' ivet'Ir N1i; 40 1. I l 1144? slipe flintht Coistai R~icaha any1 ile'sire to int erfere with the

Ciellst Jil?14114 ion o t 'il 1. ;1 il I blv I 1 4ll'V lt, ift1' he had to ht i'e0isliIteel ill 11lie Iilatteri,110 oettiiM wooli I h offilee by hevr whicli wouildil i any vi in jte4rfe're within tilt' exe-clitioli of tihe work.

'1'll(e est inmates For thii Avo rk m-cre ('Iiref lilly prepared i ter I 41)111le'te anid aellrait('ruirvv% (I oflie whol4e Ii tie. ci ahied witl i e sa le icare lis ift lie vl'll w('l'e to bie ])]tilt

iplell it. ('lrve's Wer'e ])a teel. uimny oion gs lot' groun ld were 11iflo tee asc'ertain iilt'natulre oie 1'5)1 soil, 11411 tigs taikeni ill t114. Iak ki' 4 iver', andl deta i14ed sinrveys unableoft tiit( site's of tit le he ks a nleil ills, a114 (it'o the har-bor ati eavI41 enidi of thel rot'eli. W~ithaill tit rei' 4iiii1411 tlidata on1 lia 14. wor1k inig l imis Av4lerv pr1'epared' for t11'ili- diferent wo'4rks

l~ro pluie'el and14 l'ileftiil eoii tat iiiis iiiaele' toe r .e ill ile 'i lbiellli tents oelftxcalvh-tie 41. ilseeiry. Av., n iled44 Aori tilE- w~v he vE' l 1 n 111its ac'e4sso~rie's. iblerl p iri'esM

were' milielfI4. Whilitll. (411 living ailil edi to ie ii illoinit of wocrk as sho4wnI by thle eflill-

putlitI1141. 1 live'4s? iiltlt co iEst Nvi15 feeidc to h 144' ,7I S*'I'lie W A I1~.~Aas t hesre 111V'ii:14lc vi ll Ielte fril lt411' 4'lld oit thel hln to f le

M 1'. Ni lNM 0.* Ye.sl'. sir: bat a finial 141lii)lledttli led sill'v4' Il1:1 s lg.'isr I'iiatigesill till' loionlt141 of' till. Iiill' Ohltf will, I haiv nE' lii ilift, gretly 1reduceI 01 the' es5t imate' I

'['le' C'if IHA.)On the NN blle. \vas till' cost~ oef lboir and14 Ilitlrial s ait thalt timei alolilt

Mri.Nii a. . Tl'e 44 st 41 it' Jill 4wa' aussumed1l'i toC li4' Al .vl;o pe'r daiy for commonIl4l ]a-.bille rs.

The1 (CIi.m iiM.~ How wa tl~ ~l5hat as v'lo wp rl'4 withi its 1)r4'evit cost1'NIi'-. Ahoua~i.. tllt ilE'- -ii' as at prett'i. TI'bv jeli'es agoiejtE for' the dIiffeen1t

itliI et, tOwi work have lei'i ieosidtli'l v V l ii ern 1b in 111 y v'igil)e'l'l ill? Ild 15tollilt'Veif arg E'XIellivi' 11 i elliulic' vilks. I haye livenj toeld by1ev''sponsibele iilitiatudr5 thalt

1hevN would14 1b4 %vi illg tie tak t(' le work ter till' pr1ies allo1wed4 iii the e'stimate14s.Mur. Co Nfp1 I. Twelity-fiv p4 er cen'lt. N% is added4' toe t hat es1inIilteMr i. Yvs, 4A . '14sir: thaut 'a istIe fte tilt 1l 11111it to Ii) ,70,(Hl14ili. I'll(- Idigh ('011-

misio .141'1. Iillt hy he' pesf olilt'7 114110-1144 ashi IN p-rce44w tif ti111 ilt, 4'rwll 441 tillt l 4'114 i . 'u ill. If vellllrl cost1:14 at sti'efo~ Illit Itdo te 11vhiet aillty tilt c lie Whgll

(101e 1 pleiudie ill have .445iltt lit~ Aee it ,0 Wi nwtt an leaii htcnl111:4'. t et'e fil. 'it'411l o igilllIE4I'iaty e 11111 w ti f.ilvel' , erE stit it beiiiire iirks en-

.Mr. It'v~ yoer ti-s tlie' tiel'was4'igt-uy 111140C15 :ildtoia isa auhoit did ile ssMr. 0 E 4C I Itim illd E1to oiy ?1~l'5 1 ti 41li 4l tl l '14l~l 415o

pr'ell ea 11'llv'ie, v'it ieri ill till' works propeloste ' orin ti1l4' aiIleltled 141144s for labor antimal tetriauls.

.Ni11'. l'JcVi'. It ymi 4)o'lrigill.l est i1ite of K)'1,OM) was care'tfully mil(-.lt' and if' you1(1111 af'i geooiel iiatxv le1i114'5 wh 14iee thii t timat)' tani he re'duedi, wily dlo you say thatyolu bleei'vt' ft'e eana 1:1In le contst riitel fir $7t4,)fotJ,111 I

31r. 11eENI4CAL. lB0ililSI' tilit'r4' art' always 'ontfinlglencies ill an1 enterprisce of this kindtthat 4'111111t 14e t'stillltedi beefoerlhande, 11114 which iare really nolt wiitinl the priovincteiof fll4' iigiluer. Foeet 'xampl~le, till, goernmen11i'lt tif' Nicarliia will probably re't'ti e ale'rvt'41irgt eef flie- stocek oef t he con )an~iy in lieni of cerltlain C1411c4SSioeIMt rraitedt ,'0111-

ta1is.siiois will have to he pid fto laeE krs, .lltd itettrest panid tt ile' stocek holders 1 irilngtilt o' 441sfruitioll ote val~l, all oft which will have' to lit adtdetdt to file estimated cost(Iftile work prpr

.Mlr. I1cIillN''. Havte s-01 yl)11r54lf any llr4eijudice ill favor of either line its against

Mr. M j.-Ni() cu.. No, 4rMr. II l*TI'lil N . Anl' yonell 1Aincrii'aliiMr. M F NI( ICA I .. I 11111 1111 AntIiiEl't'll IitizIll. My lv nati V'lIllnl is Co lea.

31r. HU 1TCHiINS. See v4)i 11111t spetak cti re'iy t'rt't from pretjud~ie ill thle maitteri'31r. MN 4 ):c%ic.. I 1111 V' liot ally.Mr. IIUTC1IINS. EXdlelo4 tile committeee whiat yoii ineta11 by saying ftint in y'ouri

filldglInilt ai Siil-l4'ee t'ilt111 is liot pr1acictale ill :I tcommeiitrcial polint 441 v iew. I 414 Iot

Mr. AN'Nt'CAt,. My reasiens folr that staitemeilnt are' tit'ee : It iii estimat-ed that. fromfive to slix till liitn tolls) w~il pas 1404 lrtiglI filt' ctiiil annallly. My irnlpr'ii. fotl'~i alltil' illfolriioi l I haive' beenu a1lilt' tte ota~in (pi1 teiltuject, is that 5,0l1),ttWX tolls is anearer 4'stinlilte thanil f; Wlf I( toilsi. Asilniiing inat flit' tgtlls tilt'ix(t't at ~2pl'rtfe, tillgross t'arlligs of' flit) cl'ul w011111 Ibe 810,0O(W ,60 a year, a1nd1 it 54'tltl5 tol 7111 quifte plaintilat any canial tlint cost over A.100,00,000l woldt be c.ommltercially utiei'tt'sfii.

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 37

.Mr. SINGLI.E N. You Iellanas a private enterprise?Mr. MENOCAL, Yes, sir; that is the only point of view in which I have been consid.

ering it.Mr. FRYEp. Your view is that shipping cannot stand a higher toll than $2 a tonMr. MENOCAL, That is the toll Iaid by the Suez Canal, and I think that lnany ships

would avoid the canal if higher tolls were charged, I believe that a sea-level canalcannot be constructed for less than four hundred inillions, It ny possibly (ost more,and to make it a financial success inuch higher tolls than $2 per ton miust be chargedto shipp)IngMr. IlU . Then you do not agree with Mr. De Lesseps's estimate of one hun-

dred and sixty millions as the cost of the Pananma Canal ?Mr. MENOCAL. No, sir.Mr. HUTCHINS. You must double the estimates of Mr. De Lesseps aud his engineers IMr. MENOCAL. Yes. ir.Mr. Hu'rctiNs. Then, what you'nean to say is, that a canal will not pay on the ill-

creased cost IMr. MEN CAL. YPS, sir.Mr. Com(w"it. Have you made any estimate as to the expense of operating the canal

after it is finished ,Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; I have made an estimate based on what it costs the gov-

enlmecnt to operate the lock-canals arotmd the falls of the Ohio and the Saint Mary'sFalls, and I believe that the running expenses of the Nicaragua Canal will be aboit$1(,t$io uer annum. 'ro this amount $400,000 ought to be added for office. adihinis-tration, adl other expenses.

Mr. Cq(;ERi. That would make it $1,200,000 a year.Mr. MENO CAL. I supps that a million and a half dollars would he a liberal estimate.

That would cover all possible contingencies IMr. HUTC1INs. Do you include in that repairs?Mr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir; repairs and running expenses. I anticipate very little re-

pairs needed in the Nicaragua route, provided Te canal is properly constructed.Mr. CoNw'ER. Then, in addition to the annual interest on the cost of the eanal, you

would add a million and a half of dollars for the running expenses of operating itMr. MENOCAL. Yes, sir.Mr. Co.uER,. Rave you made any estimate as to what would be the cost of opera-

ting a sea-level canal at Panama IMr. MENOCAL. I suppose that it will cost about one-half of what the cost of opera-

ting the Nicaragma Canal would le; that is, provided the canal is properly constructCiland free froimn all surface drainage; otherwise, it wonld be rather difficult for any (meto estimate the probable expense of operating it.

Mr. CONGEI. Can you give me any estimate of the comparative expelse of makinga eut and making a tunnel ? lSuplpse you have a out of 134 feet a mile long, and thatyou have a tunnel to inake a mile long, what would be the difference in cost ?

Mr. Winna.. assuming tho work done free from water, the excavation beingdrained by gras itation. and that the canal prism is tite sam' f'or both their tunnel and.open cut, the height of the tunnel to he 66 feet above the water-level, and tlh mate-rial excavated rok, then the relati%-e coat of the tunnel and open 'at of 13.1 feet abovethe water in tih- canal will be as 'j to 1, respectivelvy, for tile tunnel and open et,and that would he albut their relative cost for other dimensions of prism under thesatme conditions.

Mr. HIUTCHINS. You say that you have no prejudice in favor of either route. Haveyu any interest that Woulh be beluited by the adoption of either route

Mr. MENO'Ai.. Not atIn.'Mr. IuTCHINS. Have you any personal friends who have an interest or who would

he benefited by the adoption of either route ?Mr. MENOVAL. I have no personal friend interested in either route. My judgment

is not influenced by any such consideration. I do not know any body in Nicaraguawho would be espei'iall.v benefited by the adoption of that route exVept in a generalway. I know gentlemen in this country who are entleavoring to form an Americancompany to build the canal, and who may become financially interested in the affair.

Mr. HfUTCHINS. Does that fact intlu'nce your judgment TMr. MENO'AL.. Not at all. My julgnent has been formed for many years hark.Mr. HUTCHiNs. Taking into consideration the recent information antl surveys of the

Panama route (which you say have not changed your iniitd), do you think that thefact that you have friends who may lie interested in the Nicaragua Canal controlsyour judgnuent in the least ?

Mr. MENOCAL. Not in the least. T aun positive on that point. I only have a pro-f'essional interest in it.

Mr. IUTCHINS. WVouhl your lpofi'ssimial interest influence your judgment?Mr. MRNOCAL. No, sir; iny'judginent is based on factu, which can be easily uppre-

eiated1 by others. I have always advocated the sending out of a comimnission of coin-

I

38 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

potent and disiterested engineers to exati ne the two routes over the ground, andreport as to their relative merits; and I still l'lieve that to lie A very advisable meas-ure, so a. to rtei ve ally doubts as to tht-ir practicability. If I am mistaken in myappreciation of the natural conditions, I would like to know it. If, on the contrary.my judgment is find to be correct, I woul feel better justitied in advocating theconstruction of the caeal by the route I now believe to be the most advantageous a.sa commercial enterprise, amid as the one intended to especially benefit the interests ofthe Unit e States, which will contribute more than all the other nations together tothe business of the canal.

ISTATEMEiNT OF I1EUT. FREDERICK COLLINS, UNITED STATES NAVY.

WAS1IJC, TON. D. C.,February '28, 10.

vient. FIllnFRICK CollL.xNS, U'nited States Navy, read the following paper on a coin-parison of the effects of the winds aml currents of the Pacific Ocean upon the routesof sailing-vessels to and from the western terinini of the proposed interoceanic shipcanals at Nicaragua and Panama:

The unfavorable character of the prevailing winds and currents of the Pacific Oceanin the vicinity of the west coast of Intertropical Anierica for navigation by sailing-vessels has long beei kno~vn, and in connection with the interoceanic canal project itis frequently coninientecd upon as a disadvantage of the Panama route.

The subject, however, seems to be very imperfectIy understood by the public atlarge, and many inisconceptions and exaggerated notions are prevalent concerningit. No less a person than Lientenimant Maury, the "father of the physical geographyof the sea," is said to have proclaimed that even if the Isthmuis of Panama were to 1;edivided by a convulsion of nature, it could never become a highway for sailing-vesselson account of these unfavorable winds, calns, and currents.

I could hardly venture to question the opinion of so eminent an authority as Lieu-tenant Maury on this subject, but I think it safe to say that, if we wish to considerthe question'camlidly and fairly, we will find that this dictumn, like most other sweep-ing assertions, can be accepted only with reservations anti qualifications.

Tt is certainly true that the prevailing meteorological conditions and oceanic cur-rents in the vicinity of the west coast of the Isthnus of Panama are exceedingly un-favorable for either the approach or departure of sailing-vessels. Still, it require,,something of a stretch of the imagination to believe that they can he so unfavorableas to inluce vessels to brave the stormy passage around Cape Horn in preference togoing ly way of the isthmus, should nature or tian provide a gateway.

In 187t2 I iad occasion, under directions from the Bureau of Navigation, to make aclose examination of this subject, the results of which were published in CommanderSel'ridge's report of his surveys on the isthmus. As a result of these investigations Iwas led to conclude that, comparatively speaking, no great difficulty need bl expe-rienced in getting from the vicinity of the Bay of Panama to a place where good windsmight be found. A considerable detur front the niost direct route would be neces-sary in niost cases, it is true, blut a careful computation gave only ten days as the av-erage tiie that would le cosnsumed in getting a sufficient offing to secure good winds.Iro illed the correct route was pursued.

Now ten flays can hardly lie considered a sitliciently formidable loss of time tii pre-clude the use of the istlinis route by sailing.vessels, were it open. Indeed, in coi-.arison of the time that wild be saved oil illist voyages, (len days are ai bagatelle.lint if ten flays can be stlved by one isthnius roite that iitt I lost lby another, then

it becomes ait latter of vital intere st. And if in the comparison of two routes it Canlbe demonstrated that one of the:'i will bring our east and west coasts nearer by tendays than another, it appears to iie that this fiact alone would ie suflicient to decideus in our choice.

I propose now to'demustrare, hyond the possibility of denial, by t consideration ofthe winds and currents of the Pacific Ocean that tie Nivaraguan route will give eVena greater gain than that, as coniliared with Panania or any route sotth ef Panama, onthi' voyage froml New York or New Orleans to San F.rancisco.

(A dhigranahowing tle' wind and calim regions of tie Pacific in the vicinity of thewest coast of Central America aind the I'nitedl States, its well as the routes for sailing-VeHsels fromn l'atlanit and Nicaragua to San l"ranciscoi was lien exhibited to the conI-mittee, and explained by Lieute'nant Collins.)

[If a wual sitlilar to ton out, ,shown to the coiinittet, cou1( lie prepared and publishedwith this paper it would id greatly to its valie. This was suggested by Mr. C'ouger, atlid I hope the colniniitee will be disosed tIo carry the idea oilt.

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 39

After this explanation, we call understand whT it was that Lieutenant Maury, writ-ing, in 1854 of the passage from Painma to San F rauicisco under sail, said that, as then

made, it was '' one of the most tedious, uncertain, and vexatious known to navigra-tors," and that the voyage from Valparaiso to California was shorter inl point of tittethan that front Panama,athough the latter, as regards distance, was not half so longas the former. At that time the practice wits either to keep up along close to thecoast, or to stand out west from Panama until the northeast trades were reached.Both were wrong, and resulted in long passages. In 1854 an officer of the Navy, writ-ing to Lieutenant Maury, said (see p. 773, Maury's Sailing Directions, 8th edition)," learned on my arrival at Panama that great numbers of sailing-ships were in thehabit of resorting thither for the purpose of taking freight and' passengers to SanFrancisco, but, to ity surprise, I learned that they seldom made the passage underninety days, tnd often were one hundred and twenty days on the way. * " *One of the clipper ships, some Iiiue since, made the passage in forty-five days bystanding to the southward its if hound to Callao, and making all her westing in th'esoutheast trades south of the line."

Acting on this hint Maury began an investigation of the subject, and on p. 775 of hisSailing Directions, he sums up his conclusions in the following suggestions for theconsideration of navigators bound northwest from Panama:

"From the Bay of Panama make the best of your way south till yon get between5-- north and the equator. Being between these marallels, it will'he for the nav-igator to decide whether lie will shape his course west and keel between them un-til he crosses the meridian of 95c west, or whether he will cross the equator and makehis "esting in south latitude with the southeast tra~es on his quarter. The winds lefinds between 5- north and the line miust decide this question for him. If lie can getwest here, with a good breeze, lie should crack on, and when his good wind fails himsteer south again. * * Therefore in coming out of the Bay of Panama, and aftercrossing 56-north, in any season, make a southwest course if the winds will allow. Ifthe wind be southwest, brace up on tl starboard tack ; but if it he south-southweststani west, if it he a good working breeze. But if it. be light and baffling with rain,know that you are in the Doldrasm, and the quickest way to get clear of them is bNmaking all yon can on a due south course."

This route, suggested by Maury (which corresponds essentially with the one pro-jected on this diagram), was at once followed by navigators, and with such good re-sults as to reduce tIhe average length of pussage to San Franucisco from ninety days tothirty-seven-days. My computations gave a result ofthirty-six days its the averagetimefroni Capsica, which vould be about equal to thirty-eight from 'Panama; a result inclose agreement with the average tinle its above stated, according to Berghau's andother authorities. The foregoing him been necessary to demonstrate the correctnessof the route from Panama to San Francisco, which I'have projected on this diagram.andi which certainly looks to be a very roundabout way. It is a ease, however, as Ihave shown, in which the "' longest way romd is the shortest way home."I will now briefly demonstrate the correctness of the route which I have projected

front Nicaragua to San Francisco, for if these e routes are not correct of course thewhole business of eomparimon falls to the groud. This route, as you we, lies straightout to tihe westward front thet coast through thet monsoon belt, tho edge of Which is

reat-lhed a~t about the ll0th nueridian. It thenl turns a little to the northward through

the upper part of the Doldruin region -o as to strike the northeast trades at the near-est point. Thence it lies to tihe northward alnd westward through the trash,, winds -finally turning to the eastward and reaching San Fran cisco through the belt of west-e~rly winds that lies above the "trades." Thris r'oute* I consider to repr'esent, its nearly

eral, during the winter months, wheii northecrly winds ptrevail along the coast, thu.route will h te longer. Ott the other hand, dating the siltmmer, when the southerlywinds prevail, it will be shorter. On the average the route here laid down will giveavery close approxiniation to tie distance sailed. Its length is 3,240 miles, aid mIl-lowig lhe rate of sailing will on the average be abottt tihe saite as tl the routef Paoin Fmmanl, tie tine to make the trip will be twenty-three days, Coniparing, itow,the distances and tthes on the two rout(% we get tie following: A -

Panan -t- San Fran-iseo- ............................................ 5,:350 :rNicarauita to San Francisco .......................................... 3,-40 13

Difference in favor of Nicaragua ..................................... 2,110 14

On the return from Sean Franciseo tie difrenee in favor of Nicaragua is les marked,but still worthy of notice. 'File average distance to be sailed will vary somewhat

40 IN'rERO(EANIC SHIP CANAL.

with il| i-amn. being eim,.idteralty Ioger il the sttmii'r fltai il the winter, Fol-Io%%it ijog I6 lilt' itti! hi ' fti!fi-l1lh iag botlh stNIte.sH

Sihfol,r In Jpril.MiiI. Dal it.

S1111 1i1t'am'i,,ll to h lam ! ............................................ 3,0{, N %!6

Sitm In . i~a. tt Nicart' g .......................................... ,tu 21

Apil hi (Itliab#'.Mile. Pams

Smi lFra!twi,-4i, tit lhinm! ............................................ 4, IN ) 3Santl Frlamli.w'at o Nic'urnlilm .......................................... ., 410 '26

IJitf;rie' ,,iei in fan ,,r of' Nir~irignt ...................................... 600 5

'T'lti' f~iri'goit igurens 1 i'ak for themselves. 'l'hey show that a canal at Nicaraguawill It.,g New Y,,rk for New O rleais l'liri'r to Sa 1i "riicisco lv nineteen days thaln%% 0 ! canal it I'anama or any of the lroposed routes south of Panana. Whlat otherargiaent eah be tt't..ssr to show thi'irectio iin witch Anerican interest lies?

. t',itilparii of rtites ft c hetr ltils of the ]acitic, while perhaps of lh'ss imnpor-tati' . is soi interestitig tit I will a,,k your Itatience while I state briefly the resultswithout 'roixll, nto details.

'To Cltil. Milla.fo.r Japlan the tlitth'rince in favor of the route from Nicaragua overthat fro itilaIlitiia is SO ttile's mil five to six ihay s.To thte Siaalwich Islillds tiat' tlifferetce il favor of Nicaraguia is 1,100 miles and

seven to eight days.To India, Ilatavia, Australia. and New Zealand the difference ill favor of Nicaragua

is 410 mnih's alil( two to three days.leittrtning from 'hitm, Matthim.llin. or the Satandwich Islands the difference iu

favir uft' Nitrairtia is O'R)0 milts and four to five' days.('ioming luow to it toltilitrisl of routes to ports (it flite west toast of South Amerita

we might niaturtlly suppose that here the Nicaraguaia route wotld be at a marked dis-ahicllitage as i. iloiaret with Patiaita. But, turiotsly enough, smith is not tho cmse.A ,oliirisot shows that von to 17lparniso or Callao there is a difference of 200 milesandi out' to. two dtiys in favor of the route front Nicaragia over that from Patamia.On fit' retim fronti thut , plates we' find the sole iistate itt which the route to orf'rtm Nit.-iragmil tli'lars it It disadvantage, the dtifreice being about 1500 miles aifour dnys-this titne it in vor of Paimtm.

All the ftri'going dit.itii,.s jar gi Venl ii inatiIuti mi's whi'h tontajin about (;,u)Ofett eah wI lib t the it'litir or sittute mi I'ntitin, hut 5.*2(0.The l,ttt4,gi a rtslIts hav' retire c tt sailig-sits, atii tilie saving for stetat'rs

m ill taut be titlrly its hlrge : aimoitimrig, i fact. oily to the direct listanct' ltwt'i'nIhe ta, 1 I'n il fit' te'tlitini. This is lilIit 6'50() Illiles, Iluiqu IIs it W0t4lti ir glilied lioth vaysit aitilul aatimit illa' titl frip Ittm ai rant'isto ti) a saving of 1,:(00 miles, whichill I tvii-ltft st ite r W il lit a nttitt',' of' ) days.

Ni)w. M. d' Ibismt-lt ls tii' siaitrtrs of his I' it j tl roi'et tell us that tht enrry-iig trade of t' woihl Ias it-itst'tl itt ilt' litals tof stiii'l;rs, alad that the siling-vessil is i lsiltt -'ent ant11at may he' tollltd olit f the pi'htil'. I desire, therefore, totaall ,irtat'teit ta a few totnb'ti'staitiaelititm which will prove that tht stililig-vt'sst'a

as yet lis ivr it f% ta iga illst the' stiatiwr iiich 1it tt'r thal is generally SiII !!ed.With re.firentt, to the c"-l1m111111itil iirined o(;teat IBrit.-iii I opote fromt the "Prot.ved-

ings ot' the tijllitii ott ('ivil Enginttrs." vol. ii, p. 91. "Not withstanding the itt-lititst' imptlts given to Steli sh iping by tht o!!'tin ofti the 'Satez 'antta, oil, 41 peri''tit. ,i' fte entire t rat, % ih hlin was taa'rrit'd ti it i 1,476 by steamn.vess'ls." Ott p augt.12 of thtl s elille %'41iliit' is the statt'itit'net that ii l P471 tert arri'i'l at the port of NewYork 1,231 hrilih .aili tig-shijis, aggregating 540,5113 toits: and 5(! litish st'anuers,aggr'gating I..0- .113 tis. ()i1 liag' 914 it is mtteti, that ill 157,6 li' total registtmmimiintht'r atld ttoiaigt ot all sailing ait st en v'ss,'ii Iteltttgittg to the British Etnpirewe're :02,3117 sailing-vessels, aggreg;Atitg 5,P,14.276 tons; attad 5,363 steamers, argg't'gait-i '2,1.0,34 02 tiis. This 'thitwi fli' sailing-'essels ttah wxetl t' steatou'rl by '2,954 hanum ber and 3,W';3I.K 1 t ils in ttlupac'ity.

'imig llow Iii th I'ititetd ?1tltts wt. til tl t]hat ill 177 i our ,oiuilaterci al rnaitritie was;t'tiiiliti f4' l ' iaiIi ttg ad t .ail 'utn vt'sa'ls iii flit' f'olh iz iatg it ttni ltt'ts

Siitbe'r. Tiutsge.$aaiiig.t'ii ................................................ 17, (PIh 2, 32-2, (Nit)Steamers ..................................................... 4,711 1, 196, 0(0

19, 730I ], 196, 000

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 41

Surely tiest' fignri's do not indicate |ihat tit ('arl'yiiig trade of tliit world lis as yetI itise d into Ih I iv iin s (it',steninlerm.

I had pra' llred tiet( foregoing as the results of my owli ctreftil exaltUiiatilt of thisiniportant silijet when i, Iluillilent Ce1114. into liy halids which cirroliirates so fiilythe correttiess of" lily 'ollclusiOiiS that I tai hot fiol'iear a few jutotations. This dlill-inent is a paper rend by b tyaptaiu Pinl, roYal na\vy, before tile British Assointiol it

heiflieli ill 1471. Ill this bw qutiottes froi a letter written in lti66 by M. F. Maury,already referred to as a great authority till this subject. From this letter I Inake thefotiowilg citations:"The great importance of one or more good coitinercial ]igiwavys across Central

Americabeing aditt tted, the whole qiuestioln of route resolves itself pretty inuclh intoIt questions of cost of constrietion aid the facility of ingress anld egress by sea to andfrom the opposite termini ; the latter is an affair of winds and currents, and theirinfluence is powerful. Paimua has the advantage of' land transit ; Nicaragua has theadvantage in winds, terminal ports, and Clinite. Tit( first is obvious, but to placethe latter in a itlear light some little exldaliation is necessary. * * I have spoken

of the caln belt about the eqnator-Paiiama is within its range. * It is dithi-cult to vOllVev to one who iut never experieneed these calms ill idea of the obstinacywith which they vex navigation. We are all familiar with calhns at sea which lastfor a few hours, or even a day, but here they last for days and weeks at a tlile. Ihave known vessels going to or front Planania to be detained by then for months at atime. * * * On ole Iceasion the British admiralty wishing to send onie of theirsailin vessels into the Arctic cecan from Panama ill tile to save the season, had hertowedhy a i tetuner through this valint belt andt carried 7(K) miles out to sea before sihecoul find a breeze. "

"Theme remarks apply to tie approach and departure by sea to or front the Pacificterminus of ;illy route across tie Isthmus of Palaia or l)arien, and even -with greaterforee to the Atrato and others on the South American side of Panana. In short, theresults of my ilivestigations into the winds and currents of the sea anId their illuteuceupon the routes (If commerce, authorize tile op1ilion which I have expressed before audwhich I liere repeat, nalnl'ly, if nature, by one of her convulsions, should rend tiite con-tinent of Am.'rica in twain and inake a chalnncl ateross the IstlkIIItis of l'allaia or Darien-is deep, as wide. aid as free as tht Straits of Dover, it wonl never become a tli-imereial thorought'a,- for sailigll-vessels, saving tlle outward-bounid and those thatcouii reach it with leadillg win'ls. * ; * *

" We comcnlio w to the Nicaragua routes. - * It is to this part of the isthmusthat we lutist look for a roitte vhiiih shall best fulfil the llresent I'i'lll irtemiets oII ('(liii-nierie. * * * VestaIs under cavas would, ill t inaill, do the fetching mii ctiarry-ing fir the Nicaragia route which, for rea,1SOns i already stated, they nlitiiit 4ho forPanatitl. The aggl'egate anllut itf' this trade is illiiense, and it is livither aeolinllo-dated for Pa ina tilr l'alaill fill' it. * * You will oel've at a glhil'i' that tileIsthliniS (if Painma or I arien is, ol aeclulut of these Wi mis alti c-Mlis, inl ii Ipr'iy t'h'llt-mller'ial point of view, the tilost out of tile way llace of' any part of tilt' I'acifie coastofhitturtr-opie:iil Ainiit,."

Tie foregoing quotations froll this eliiilleut ait hority i'ertilily sulbst'iit iate fullytit lll'liitul'tiols thai 1 lkI already dl'atwli r oaw n Iiro lil in\i- vst ivation. Itetter thanlhat. they p 'rove that iy preitudive il fitvor (if Nici':rtgll, if I hiat', a;y, al not ledmie t i overstalte tit(' 1115s' ill its ftviir, hilt tiat,. oil ti' t' trit'ry, ill lily dtesire to keelpwithin indisputably safl' Ihlnllitls I have greatly understated it.

SA'I'TEMENT' OF C'I IMMANDFR E. P. LULL, '. S. N.

NVA- IIING'itO)N, D. C., Morch C;, 1PIM).

Counlllader E_. I. lull, 1'. S. N., AVhiii hi10 ('ioilnelivel| a statenllwilt to the uo:nimltitteeoil the ' 2th of February, concluded it to-day. lie said:

In answer to the eonnittee's tirst qluestlol, ais to lily lnclletioil with the v'ariolssurveys for the loettiou of iltt'rleaiie canal routes, I beg to state - that I was asso-ciated with (ommnanider 1'. 0. Selfrilge, U'. S. N., ill the expeditions thatt eXalilililel,ill 170 sliad 1Ui1, the Sill ]llas-Cliepo liie, tie tsel'tl lines leading froll Caledonia Bayto the hmulf of I)arien on the Pacific, the mo-called de Miyelt route, by the river Talulanto the headwaters of the Tuyra, the Atrato-Plerachlita.Tuitra lit', and tile prelim-inary survey of the Atrato-Napipi lies. I collilliltilded, inl1P72'-'73, til' expedition

I filtd bN this (1 uotation tiat the qualilications 11d reSP'it'atitlns that I thoughtt]o broad statement retIirtetd are nlade W 'heni I wrote the opelniig seltt'l('t's of thispaper I had heard onliy the general stateniest. From the olpunio its lit're expressed Ieo no (ause for disint.

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

which surveyed the Nicaragua route, and in 1875 the expedition that surveyed theline across the Isthnnis of PIanama.

In answer to the second interrogatory, as to whether these surveys were complete, Iwould say that for the purposes contemplated by the government in making thll thesurveys were a'ntirly sufficient. These purposes were

First. To determine whether any practicable route or routes existed for a ship canalfrom sea to sea.

Second. If more than one practicable line should be found to make the examinationso thorough that conparisons cold be drawn Iatween or anong their, and the mostfavorable line selected. '1his last involved !actual locations of the lines from sea tosea, with all necessary accessory works, such as locks, tide-locks, dims. &c., the nec-essary harbor improvements, provision for feed-water for the canal and for the escapeof all superabundant waters from whatever source, coiliptation of the amount andestimates of the cost of excavation, embanknients, and all other constrictive works.

In my opinion, for the purposes above set forth the surveys executed under thvorders of the United States Government between 1870 and 1875, with some few trust-worthy exaniinaliois previously made, are entirely sufficient. But while sufficient forpmrplses of comparison, it is not claimed for them that they are mfilieient for a finallocation of the lines for actual construction. Before that could be done ,in exhaustivetopographical survey, should be made, to inchlde a belt of several miles on either sideof the lines as laid down, and in some instances possibly a radical change of locationwould le found dvisable.

In my further remarks I shall confine myself entirely to the Nicaragua and Panamalines, which were surveyed under my own direction, and which I believe to be, beyondcotparisoi, superior to any others that exist. I will add that what I have said aboveof thu possibilities of improvements in the lines as laid down apply more to the Nicar-agua line than to that through Panama. In the latter locality the topography is wellknown, and the conditions, especially the fluvial system, confine the location veryclosely to the fine laid down by the p arty under my charge in V475, whether it be fira canal with locks or one at the smea-fevel, the true location being much more obviousin the latter than in the former case.

If a canal at the sea-level be decided upon, it is not too much to say that the Pai-ama line is the only one possible without resorting to a tunnel.

Owing to the elevation of the surfaceo of Lake Nicaragna (fluctuating at differentseasons of the year between 101 and 107 feet above the surface of the sea at mean tide)a canal at the sea-level in that vicinity is impossible, and by the expeditions of 1872-'73,as already said. a canal with locks wvas located as described further on. When thesurvey ot the Panama line was determined npon in 1875, the first preliminary exam-inatioan slowed that whether practicable or not for a canal it the sea-level, that is, inan engineering sense, the cost of such a work, as compared with the line already lo-eatel in Nicaragua. would be so enormous as to place it beyond commercial practica-bility. There were seen to he so nany obstacles to the construction and maintenanceof a canal at the sea-level, and the lvantages in time, cost, and hazard of transitthrough such canal so small, comparatively, over those in a canal with locks, that noeffort was made by ns to locate a sea-level canal, and consequently no actual compu-tation or estimate of such a work waa made, though we brought away sufficient in-fornuttion tr preliminary or coamiaarative computations anld estimates, if such weredeirad.

Theaollowinig are brief descriptions of the lies as located by the United States ex-peditions through Nicaragua and through Panama. For a full and detailed descrip-tion, with nmaps, plans, andi profles, anal with coniputations and estiniates of cost, theV011nnaittee is respectfully ra'ferrod to the pllished reports, viz:(1) Reports of explorations anld surveys for the location of a shiu canal between

the Atlantic and Pacific Oceane through Nicariuta. 1.72-'73. Seiiate Ex. Doe. No.57, 1 P74.S('2) Reports of' exh orations and surveys for the location ofia ship canal, &c., throughthe Isthuans aif 'anama. 1875. Senate Ex. Doce. No. 75, 170.

TIE NICAIIAOUA ,INE.*

The line through Nicaragua includes, as on' of its essential features, the lake of thesale ilite. Tils body of water with it superfleial area of some twenty-seven hull-dred square miles, lis in the southwest portion of the republic. It is separated fromthe l'avific by a strip of land but ten titles wide at its narrowest ia itt, viz. from Vir-gin Bay to San Juan del Sur. The surface of the lake at its highest stage, i. e., aboutthe nid of the rainy seasmi, is 107 feet above unean tile of either sea. The onlyoutletis the river Sai .1 iiau, which flows front the southeast portion of the lake to the Carib-

The ldesariptive portions of this paper are trauscribed mainly front a paper readby the writer before the Ainari an Association for the Advaneacnent of Science, atSaratoga. in August, 1-79.

INTEROCEANIC 8111P CANAL. 43

bean -ea, a dista Iwe by the river it' 119 milesI. The like (Irains; an area, approximatelyof Stl¢ quare, inuiis: the Ilveralwe rise, an!d fall of|its surface level is six f;eet. The,fluctuations of level are very gradual. the rise occupying the whole of the rainy Sea-Mll, ade the lthe whole of the dry. There- i Mdp water to within twelve hiunredfeet of the slat at I lpin where tih pro sA tiranal t ill enter thll k oili the wstide. n hi, est sid it' nd hank, with ut 18 tltse of water, extends seven mi s

froin the outlhet.

It it proc-aa tio niakll tle ligs-wathr lv of thf lake the or in the eanal.The lakl wi Ih cmv acted wit u le obuily p enifanai eit n it,,hgth. The canalwill leave the lake at the timouth tf the Rio del Mdio, faron outhwesa tid dirt,'vunder the lea of the island of' Omneten. The first dteonting t g 7.58 ailes, wi l

e by far the tost expensive portion of the work. requirii all .l eratreof 54 ts depthof exahation. Fromt the end of this seetio to the stie the profile bas been so. adjustedthat the exavation will e less than the prism of thchanal, or i other worfis, e hematerial excavated will Ihe li to bItil iup embankments on either side,, and the,

water surf ree will he higher than tit, present th race of tti grold. The line followsgnerall'iv the valley of the sinall Strewn, t e Rioel dio, fri.n tlre lake to the divideand tlei valley sf ie irmnd by t hene tn the Ssa, deuching ot Brito, ae point ninebols north ofithe port of till nit del er. Th r beat h required ot this side telocks with t lit of am l tle over ilal feet each, and one tie lock at 'rito. The b d ofthe Rio rande afords natural drainage dir the canal, who t hea is everywhere, exceptin the side-water rearh, alive that of th river. Ah arteficsil harbor ntl be pro-vided at Brito, and he conditions are very favrahh fir it. Ati present there is arelyan angle in lti, east line nlned by the general trend if the shore o oi si a al itbohl rocky point which juto ott into ithe sea onA the other Uapon te vry extrityof the lint ihere is atmp e material for the necessary breakwater. The adh.antatri oflvieg to traisp'rt materi so short a dista ncet is very important.On the side of the river opposite to this proniontory there is it low nmrili extending

to the teach. It is proposed to excavate in this a liasin sufficient l to serve a a pro-leetd ntan e to te, anal, tuniighe e t river so that it Shall empty through at ali-fiial liouthl soi'x distance to the sttlward. A harile r ofa nty te pl for villiterciapurposes i neither needed nor contemplated.

DRAINAGE,

Every streani, dry water-coiirse, aid valley -which might pos sibly bring water inlties tit heavy rins has i..ci, prove ide.d for in the( lplanx, either by ainph, cutlverts, bychanging its [.ourSe. or, inll te ease of' some very sinall brooks, by i-evveiving the* waters

into thercared. Ali examlination of the detailed estimates awl plJans will,l t hink, silt-isfy any engineer on them- points.

EASTERN DIVISION.

It is proposed to connect the lake and the Caribbean Sea by ineais of blackwaternavigation anti of ' anal, following the bed and tti' valley of the river Si1 Juan-8lackwater navigation from the head to the cotlnhce of the San Carlos, a distanceof 63 iiles, and indeendent canal froin that paint to the harbor of Greytowll or SanJuan del Norte. The navigation of that porlti of tha river which it is proliosed toutilize is at present obsitrneted by rapids in four localitie s, viz: the Toro Rapids, 2miles front the outlet : the Castill, :i7 miles distant ; iln' Mico and Baths Rapids, 7miles fitrther, and, tiually, the Machuca Rapids, 4L miles fl'in the head. letweenthe Machuca Rapids and thie nmith of the Sai Carlos the Sill ,uaini is deep and slug-gish, and hears the nane of Agua Muerta, or Dead Wter. The San Carlos is the firstconsiderable tributary of the Sail .tlan it takes its rim in til volcanic regions ofCosta Rica, and brings dowt enorntous quantities of silt, inail lv a volanic sand. silight as to he helill in almost complete suspension by rapidly flowing water. It is thismaterial principallv which fonns the delta of tiii Sau Jitt, and -y which the ouemagnilient harbor of Greytown has beN n so nearly destroyed. Thie San Juan itself,below the mouth of the Mai Carlos, is filled with hars and shoals front ti' sante source.Above th San Carlos the inain river is very fr'e from silt. Thle bank, already mien-tioned, at the fiiot of the lake is composed of it stit' mud, the acctiiulated deposit t'

SLACKWATER NAVIGATIOiN.

The lake, with the grulal rise and fall of its surface lIevel, acts as a great equalizer,inid reniders the character of the upper part of tit, SM Juan very different froin thatof mnost tropical streatls whae treshets are viohen and sudi'ii. Frimi the CastilloRapids di.tW the river is, to lie sure, sllbJect tit tinies to considerahle ioatis, htut theseart prod, eod inainly iy back watter front t lu Carlos and lower tributaries, as isproved by the very' considerable diminution of the river current at stith ties. It isproposed' to vt otl this back water, as will be shown further oti.

It is proposed to prodltce sla'kwater navigation iy the erection of ftiir dlats-ilt'n

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

at Cat -ile, ine at Balts, onit at Maclilin. and one .Jist below tilt preselnt iloiuth of theSan Carlips. '1The lirt OjIsO . sites tir tih lt-ams are mtguiicet. Each is located in awide part of the river. allitlts upon a hill on either luik, and all, save that at llC'arlos. have rock foundlations. At the last-nined point there is it solid bed of gravelwhich doul it hss ovi'erlies ick, though in tit( estitnat es a pil' ftminlation has leeill pr'o-iled fur. The liami at stilllo will raise tine water belnmi it to the level ot' " high

hike." Eac'h of til- ither three will raise the isurfve of its waters to within 10.2s feetof that iii the rea'ch next love. There will have to Ie removed some rock in thectannel over the Toro RuTpidx, which should, ofitourse, be done before t ilta, in is built.

There will also have to Ie some improvement by dredging ietween that point andthe head of tile river, nld at cihanel dredged ilor tile seven inibs already spoken offront the outlet of the lake to til -'2 feet eurve. A short rea'h of canal with one lift-lock will lie required to pass each of tile ipper three dhlls. As I have said, it i pro-posed to luil ilnlll No. 4 ist. below the present iolth (if the ilt)I Carlos. It is thenproposed to t urn tite San Carlos, giving it a new mouth ielow tilt ildam, which willthus cut off the tloods front the upper river.

INDEPENDENT i'ANA I..

()in acoillnt oif these floods and of the shoals and sand-bars the river innnot readilyle utilized ei'low this point. A canal is therefore proposed, leaving the left bank ofthe river ist above tile dani and leailing by the shortest practicalble traverse to tileharbor of Grevtown., depending un thit profile. that is, following tl' lowest levels,where it eotld be done without adding unduly to tile dlstanie. The sections, likethose ill tilt- Pacific division, are composed of straight reaches anld if ares of eireles,tile least radius in tilt, hatter being '2,200 feet, which gives it iidille ordinate for 400feet of but 9 feet ; ii otller words, the iliddh point of the keel of a .hip 400 feet longwould li ]ilt 9.Ieet out of the axis of the caioal when hit' bow anti stern were exactlyill the axis.

Seven locks will le required in this portiot of the vanal. making, with the threealready spoken t, tell ill all, ii a it ith' over ten feet lift each.

DIIAINAGE.

As ill hle ease of the western division, tilt dri ilgv is provided for by the arrange-ment of the prolili with Irefe'rentoe to that ot'tie nlailt ral sllrfac--e, alnd e very streit adtl

valley has its culverts or euss-pols, as the clase demands, as will le seen by referenceto tile plans i tih' llmlished report.

TIe HAlBlilt AT (ni:YTrOWN.

The 'iver Mn .lttati di. rh arges its waters thrnigh two youths, the ('olorado alnd the1 t\,el' Satll .Jullt. 'rl' Coloraido diselll'ges at till. low stage W per ivnt. of tile riverhow. Its curenl.1t is oplliseil directly to tilt sel, produced by tilt- prevailitng traile-

wii iills, fi' 'tii tig aigly nIt'11 off' its tlotioth. The Liiwer Snti 3ltinli enmptits into tiht Bayti' vrey to ii, ol'vi a tnagniliceint harbor, but now a lllere silllow lagu1itl. Twentyyears ugii I saw ships tif war anucotrid ', re now there is scarcely water for a ('tanic.

'The milt tr wial N~ t ich it hais ltii so nearly filled illi is the' silt already spoken iotas iconming fro t lti- Sati Carlis Rivi'er, aild which is li'ight ibown itt enormous quonia-tities itIri g ti' rilly sitllot. A itol'idii o tI Illi' of salld now closes itpI tlte entrtlili,of tht hilrlbur allnost entirely for tlt' greater hart of the -i \vt, though dtltritg, fresletsit is blrioken iki'thlilgh, sollletivs ill otne lahu'i, sometimes at atither. Till' tmole ix-ttlds f'roiim tie Iminin sltre j ist north t' Greytowvn in a direction itout east 1ty toitth.Twelty years luro till- olit ptiiion (if it oily existed ini tilt' florin of a iook, which witsktnown its Paua Irmin, alnd between tilt- pilt mlid tit' timainland there was a, depclhiel'. This wasit ettirely ilised tilt, it year latter, yiy the waste timtirial frttit a breakfarttl' olnt during a freshet. The se' cntsi'd Itby ilti' trade-Wiid mtittes frottit a little totilt northwird of ti t 'avel (tf tht' outer Iteli'. Tilt' river centers the harbor by twonni tlts, tilt priteiplal of whiih etlities inito that part of the bay kitniwn its Harborletil very lienar tihi' inlosing S.1lid strip. A smniall opelliliug niar this point is al-ways xntili1 litaiill, lhtighi eolistittly shifting its position. Durili the really season,the eurreit being very strtoig, tau t lit sea outside tnliuatively still, owitng to tileiltrrpti (it" tile trade-winds, large entitiess tt' silt are carried oltsile of the llole,the opening ill which bodies wiith- ltiti([ conpaorati vely deep. As the ratins begin toslacken, atd tilted tatlde-wiids to iltreis' it tii elhlngett of Seasotn, the svt trllsportstI' silt to hieward, aind generally clsts ill any oinidiug that inay live been lmado

ntear the old entrance, ,jitst its it did on tile tlrst decision above retlerred to, The till-itig tip of the harbor hasintils bi'tee largely assisted by tle luxuriant vegetable growth,more especially of' aulti ii species. Tie 'ordoili, owing to its shifting character, atf-tords very litt Iet eeoiirltgeltetnt to titi' spounltaneouts growth of vegettt ion, and 1o effortwhatever is tmiade' by tli atlhoritits or itinttitints to assist int trlre itl plachtig her hg-attires upoll its unstable saitds, ;t&li thius giving it sotie degree of perianelley.

INTEROCEANI( SHIP CANAL.

Ti! E (1>.ItIIA i Ft 4 TH!E IIA11114 1..

followsx:

ot' thtitl ht it II t'ilt. i ''l t a i WMITlt tht it .1 w t t- Coen l it'o''Iis 1114 I lhi Ht

char. I tt' it'v t i ant.I li' (t)i i 'tgifv' ill flits , .~41''f4114 1 il lt -qt iii -it 'lit-bri aingt'

inf ttil' 14 t'ii ilt- ]]lilt vin I lit' tiilt t' dii p'igf~'Vt11M l, l n t

.I in,~ iig ma t it'vllo11111

It i lt rae .lix i h at'~tt ll I ig O14 ilittl inittl tiflilt, pr tt i ltr tilt- I t'Niliiit Ii l laIi4114r 1 ttrsA , li .t It' tt Iil l iii 4 f llilttd tt nev iiry t1111.tt'iltv ilw ic ol]Ilt

a'itt ol ' thlt't' a'tittili ttt' ucaiy 7 hnnil Thvxt ixi t'onivlst thtf IIw t tusandli'oilills lii-tl artiit flv no tlh iveiM. r(11t h,31fo .1-v. 114 urt o-14 t t lbrelt't wiithl titotggext thia f lit' er gt'ncra ti1ll t cni, a'lglti' t lti

Iitu is b L nt h Il illr'. illilt.r 1114s1 t t It\ 111111 aIpt' o ltig l ti ian bpt i lc iiIt cixlirlt oi'l, to it s1'I o sit' t , 111hi conitrolsing41 tit- li' (' iivi as m cha .sii

Tht'are. ucI b tnisl ta i t pr ttsla fvre lit'i u li t'it n -tli o ulint i ll ummi ito Ili l illI'vfistid gtl-h ro n ae.rita vlitfrtlp~pse ield h ti.a11o

INTEROCE.ANIC SHIP CANAL,

It i.4 liulo'e1 tot givxi. tihe hicks a letigt Ii of 44H) feet ie'tweepi loita'r* 'i is. amil 71 feet,m4 ilt ii ot 1lii:1iilii'1'. Thie de4sigti for1 tilt locks, biy Mr. A. G . Meiioi'al. civil engitieter,

t.S. N.. \% ili e 10111 md esecribled inl tilhe Ib isliedi report thesee ale modleledi after' the1 liitell St ;itts Iliival iII' -iliipks. It is p1roosed to ived aind d discharge' them'ii tiii'iitigh0f) Sili'ii 1 I it' oliiiiv iat itig N% ith it( loc1k chlambters fly three" 144111 (ita side4, onie atT 11V lieaiI, (tilt' i I1 ('iV CV ('I, .11141 A MVl H~t title fooit of th ch' lamiber'. It is colitjited that-fifteel Illiltil es Nvill lhe Sliivitiit for fillim oi ir dlisciairgiug tile lock, mid! that a ship

iy lit pias'd thrlir gh ill hess thai at halftorTheiire svvelo tit ile 11o good re'asoin why Air. 'Meuovai's pim! (if side-pipes should1( not

lie( Supjilenient,11ed by I tle mrdiiary plani ofr feedig and. discharging through thle hick-gpat.'s, tHils reducii og the time to) from five to sevenl inlimiites for raising oir lowering a-hl: th Ile to4 tal1 thut14 ot liissig thet lock toi from 15 to 20 1111 nates.

WXit It lic. t'.\ct'jpt 1441 (ii' t l1e Irs't Si'cti0 I I4O the I Wt'St4'ru 4livisiofl there is abiuI)dal t i'oornifor tilt- depojasit iii miitia1 iwtar at hnd 4.

It is piroposedl to give' thle 'Paliks a slope of 1A horizonttal toi I ver'ticall iii earth (W- )al hoirizoiital to F' vert ilal itk roc'k.

V'4AI ElI SUPP'ILY.

T~ il agiof tite river Sall .J at 1 tile lowest stage showed 11 iisclargi' of' t weiity

111(5p till, trieati'St poS.i llt iliqnanli'il i i'pratill t li' lt- (1

ESTIMATES.

Tlt' ust ii otes itt' tost of ('liiistruti g a caniall I this roti'e will het fouiitil iii deftail inithe' i' hIishli repiolt (it' th I surrii'ey. Theyii' 11114 iit iii thle aggrt'4gati' til $,2,577,718.Ailili g *") 2.i vei. for1 ti ili i iig'ites. mid4 Foir expiises that calimo titli fore'sei, brings

i't t'stiliiattilt to Ati5,711, 137.AS I ha~ve all-i'adi mid i. we have r'easoni to blieive that ini several lotcalitites the line

az laid tilti\\ 11 niay1 It( imprilovied itii. 'I'll(, surveys miadle werei exeitt'u with veryHi iiiittil Iiit'iils, a111( it %%as oiii v'y iliv t'liisist, 4'coilinyli thalt we were able14 to exteudlie wiii'k from sia tio sea1. Ini siome few case's, front the' iiiatiotis, wt'e believedt thataiii iietxteided (14!xaiiat iiu miighit impqroive thle li. Auid Mr. Me ca1, from exam-

i1i11 iins sill sti j11ittly niadi' Iiy himi inl tilt' i'iiiiloy oft thil' Nicaraguaii Goverliieti't, 1111l1

i1i1141li as lie I actually ex alniii'I 1by tran si t-li'vel a1144 chauiii, atit we' thlere-fo re knoic the1,i1difiionx tit b (in good upt Oct 'i'prica cthm Il'i aile ire bf licre 1/all fire deihdly bettner.

IllE PANAMA ROUTE.

Theiu rouite' fr ~ a d a cims tii' Ist inn uls f l'Imia, as laid dowin 143 the sai''4eyiNg11ixiw'ii l o ofI m5 c mtls fromi th l (ayio' Aspimwa II mii t ilt- Carilila'ai, to tht itf

0a11ii o ti'll- c l sd. It 1f1llows iii iio'riil tile '4111143 ff' t i i'l Ulnigresfiron Asidimall toiv n great lii'ii 'I li tar stream at Mitacl'in. At Matacliin it is pro-posed'4 tit i'iisq thei, Clilgi'i's Iy , lliialis of' a v'iaducit. 'Illei lita'. thenl folloiws thit va~ley3 tftiiilitio Obispii, at '41i1:1f tni hl inr of'h lii' I'hgi'is, tot lifti diilde, crossing NIvli h1l, it fol-flow,, t fit, ofa I t'it'll- Rio ha iiih' to thei llIiv of I'laia.

It i't li1'ilisivel to supply Nvati'i' foir tilli' i'anal by3 minas Aii fei'iir ta ppirigr till- ('hagresiiii'fij lii i' il i~ ' tli' i iiit o i~sin r a isi ig tilt' ive'ir sml racei to it su ficieit,

heiighit Ill% iiii 441 at idaim toi fi' ii instriiii'tt'it for the liiurpose.Ti'li, lo'a.itionl i'iiisi'i foll. tit(' viaiilnit td)i'i'iss lift iii(hagres k~ adilirallily v iiipted for

cl singr t1e va ley ofit'li ii ffortlii'is 4'\i'i'lii aiiii tiii't in Iriii v'iadii't. at till' santoti ic gi vilf tig 1114 oj l ill tor' aI sl tii'it iiiiiilt'i tot vilvi'rts to iiL'a'lia'get' ilt' wateris ot

til~t- i I. ill i u lii' ofn \ 0ol rimtl i tit soli .ri'atI r of* th \iiu lii( if iletiu liivoitiil tetii v iiiiret liti t~ hie.' 14' lv ofi tih iipSRiv tit([ a gfterthtn iiii th liid i, int'o

fit~ g af il, Rio)iiille ii' .iir t%%# itles IV lii' .'p IV of;( uia'avtion i t,11- he c t hrougdii' ilivititeli' d'.'ml

'Ilile liniilio4'i t.ii oi ihI silt,'n ia'fin dIt-vl (in till- ".iuhd il' n4.iirm t d, w as ~ffeliithetiiiis Ii'iigthi. % 4' oll %ii nii Mir I'h ii't aro t. tirt ii tthe cn-iv 4111 tlt- it-,1 (ifny

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 47i lug in length from 40 to 12 feet according to location. The waterway will 1w 65 feet

wide and 26fettleep. The thickness of tlt' walls andt lhe cross-section tit't ti' piers areproportioned for the burdens they are expected to array .

lie surface level of the water in t lie viauluct is proposed as the summit level of thecanal. From the southern end of the viaduct the line extends by straight reaches anIcurves, which ire arcs of circles, following the routes already indicated to Panamia.The first 4.8 miles carries the line through the summit. The deepest cut will be 170fi'et, while the average depth will be 76 fee-t, in addition to tile prism of the vatal.From the eud of the stmnmit cut to the termints the average depth of excavation willie btut it little more than the prism of the catal. The total distance frot the viaductto the Bay of 'anmat by the traverse is 15.,t miles.

Fromi the northern or Atlantic end ofthe admit the li tiexteids foit 7.6 miles throughvery broken country along the right ,aImk (if the Ctagres, then for 3.7 tiles throughlow and oecasiotlly swamlpy) lalu ; hilly cintry is itext met for about the same dis-tance, after which it is low atl swampy to tlie eld of the lint'. These swamlps gavetutch trouble whenl the railrovit was inder 'otustrtutiou. Piles were drive out ofsight without reaching bottom, and finally cribs loaded with stone were sunk to forma foundation for the road-beud. I believe that in the evett of opening a caial it willlie impossible by ordinary means to maintain a clhtmel through this lortiot of theline, as the sides and bottom will be pressed in al ttp. Exct'pt itn the tell miles oflroket country and in the tide-water reaches, the excavation will lie on the averageless than the prism of the canal. The total distance from viaduct to Aspinwall is 25.9miles, making the distance from sea to sea 41.7 statute miles.

Twelve locks and one tide-lock, with a lift of a little over 10 fe't etch, will bet re-quired on the Pacitie side, and twelve lift-locks on the Atlantie side.

1RItAINAt iE.

Every stream and watertotirse tmct vith has bl li'ov ided for by illv'erts, by a newchitinel, or ill the cmIse of a few small rivihets by receiving the waters into the t al.

WA'r SUPYI'IX.

The water supply from the Chiagres is ample, though at til very low slope therewould not be lllitll frouim that source to spare. The enormous amuotint ofi spring waterwoull, however, largely smuppleulnt it, so that there would nevt'r ie any dilliclIty oilthat score. The superalundant waturs at the higher states have atiple room for es-care under the catit through the ctilverts already spoken of

TitE FEEDER.'The locatin t the feeder was very difficult, anmd involves ttneling for a total dis-

tance of 13,700 feet in sections varying from i300 feet. to 5,600 feet iii hength. Therewill also be needeol. two sections tf a-j iteducts, or possibly inverted siphons, of 4,530feet and 12,000 feet lengths respectively.

tiARtIMiiS.

A chaitmel will have to he deepened in l'anatma Bay for a distance of 9,Vt0 feet tothe 1).-foot curve. This will give at ll-oot channel at dead low-water, and at andalbove ualln tide Oft 25 feet and over.

At As)inwall, where there is no help fron he tide, the ch..ntel must ibe improvedout to thie 26-foit curve, a distamive (it' 1,54011 feet. A brtakwater will also be ri'uirtdto make this harbor enirtlv safety from norlhers, though it is sutthitii'tttly well protectedfront the sea. produced by' tlie prevailing trale-wiltds, atd gales are fortlintely ofrare occurrence.

The liue of the canal laid down is nowhere more than otte mile from the track of thePanama Railroad.The total estinited cost of litilling a canal of the saute dimensions as piosed, for

that in Nicaragua is $94,0110,0410 against ,i-i.0011,I100 fir th' latter. tlie di'fereite beitigthe increaseil 11Ituount, Of iXV'iavtiou. oWilig to a less favorable Iprofilt, the cost of thviadu.t of the feeder, and of tile four additional locks iquired.

Materials for construction are muuch more abundant and accessile in Nicaragtta thaiin l'mnamtia, the tuliiate is Itmore salubrious, and tile Pacitic teriimuis i t it. Nicaraguatine is 6YR mihvs icarer to SIan Francistco than 'atmnta. The iiillereti' (it listttiu'hittw'etm the Atlantic two termini ant the eastern ports of the Unitetd States. is imap-!,reciable.

)w intg to th' inrmout rain fidl Iwhich atmnitally visits the isthltiiai regio, a tnalI,A without licks, or, in tther words, ot' at tlit si'a-luevel, lust act as the ultimat' drainof a greati'r oir less aret ; and site to redlice t'e texavation it ust fodlow tel val-ltvs, the extent tif t hos' valleys 1ti1ul of others leading iut theitn will determined tioextent of the watershed. The stirfate water from tlttst valleys aud frotiti tlit streattusntow existilig call, of ourstli, be kept fromI Ihtwhig imito the taltiul by providing sialt'-drains of siflu'ii'nt cross-si'ction t,, discharge thtmt, whi.h would be anl emurinutis adti-

II II~

48 INTEROCEANIC SlHIP CANAL.

tional expense. There is another element. howtve', which cannot tne avoided andm 111m, amount ctan onyi lie coe(cturt'i that is tie spring watter. Owing to the enor-

nns annual raintall, tlie soil is saturated For t 1(, greater portion of the year to theverve surface. 'here is nuch high land in the vicinity, giving great head to thewater: and I believe that in a canal at til, sea-level there woithl he found at times acurrent front this soircet aoit', which wotuh he a serious source of trouble hy trans-porting material .inl bujiling shoals antI lars. In tilt- two lints I have attemptedi todescribe, the 1rptiles art so haid down that, except on the tide-water reaches, where itis expected ttt' wtrk will lie done by the dredge, natural drainage is provided ; hut incast tlt- excavation is carrieti so low that there is no chance for tle water to flow otf,say for a canal at tlt- sea-level, there must be either drainage by pumping or the exca-vationts toust h. executed miller water. The ftrimr, I believe, would be impossibletite latter, so expensive that it is otiuntercially out of teie tInestion.* Although wehave clever Illadte any comlut nations or estimates for a sea-levt'el caal, I will, as alilhtstration of the adlitional cost over that in tte scltute proposed by its, make aconipariso of what mee know as the sutmtmtit cuit ill the lprposed Pa namna line with thesaim carried dowui to the sea level. The distance is iR,44s yards. The average depthfor a tanal with locks is 75 feet : in the canal at sea level ti average wotltl be 11.feet. Assuming the cross-section proplse'd for tle narrow ptrtions, viz, 106 feet widthat the water surface, allowing a slope of j foott horizontal to 1 toot vertical in rock,atd l.; foiot htorizoittal to I fotit vertical itl earth, and stlpposiltg tite earth to overliethe rock for an average depth of 20 feet, -we should have, allowing $1.40 per cubicyard toft excavation ill rock and 40 cetnts per cubic yard it earth

Canal with hcks, Catia it thi sea level.

Excavation itt rock ........................ .t, t12, 560 it . yds. 25, 344, 001) cu. yds.Exca vatio m it earth ....................... 1,27, 3UV en. yd.. 4, 75, 94) (-n. yds.Total most of section ....................... $11, 444, 774 $3.), 47, 176

Ilt this coulparisolt the same cost per cuilti yard is estimated for in both cases, whichis manii'estly tti ir Ito the stction Ia imtg tht least 4ii! th it excavation, since thedeeper the mitt tilt, greater listatce it will be necessary to transport material, to saynothing it other disaldvantages.The Panama rote certainly offers, of all that have been examined, the least un-

favtralh cndititms for a canal at the sea lt'vel, iut even tire the tntmber of streatttswhich are ill)ersteted byv tilt, line, i. c., tilt Chagr's and its tributaries, could only bedivirteti at t'uortttms cost for ni'w elati titls.

Tlit expttst. of passing locks andt the consequent delay to ships in transit, and thecost ttf kteping locks in repair, are lisadvantages, which it wtul bte well to avoidit' possihl ; but oit the other land, the freedom frm currents and from obstructions;tht- fatt that 'when repairs may bt' needed, any reach, save those at title-water level,mav ie drraied by simply dra % ing off tilt- water ; and above all, tilt! enormous ditfer-ect' of original vist, make it an easy matter to decide in favor of a canal with locksant intteed, t'te jttstion, practically, is reduced to a choice between a canal withloctks or nonte at aill.

It would be ditficult to say what may lie the limits of possiihlity to engineeringskill: ot, itt imy liliet, a canial without ltcks is, to say teit' least, a muh nearer ap-proath to it than this gt'n'ratitn is likely to undertake to accomldish, it' the cost iscarefully anl fully counted in advance.

('LIMATE AND HEALTIh.

From the imperiet erit's of meteorological ohiserva t ions which have been madetpon tilte istithims, tle rainlall appears ont the average to Ili, considerably lss in Nicar-agua than at Ptanama. We were fortunate in having tilt- samne medical officer, Dr.John F. Bransford, United States Navy, attacl.'u! to the Nicaragua and the Panamaexpeditions. His experience was that tile f'vers contracted in tlte latter locality weremuch mtre olstinate than in Nicaragua, where he se'hlom failed tt break a feverwithin t wenty-fitur hours from tile beginning of treatment.

As I had occasion io say in my relort upon tlt 1 Nicaragua survey, there is a generalimlressito, shared iii by many intelligent Iersons who have spent ltoger or shorter1tiiods, upon the Americau islutitus, that tlt' whole region isxteetdingly unhealthy. I

heli'v' this ttt be very erronetous. It is true that in ftorter years a large percentage ifforeigners, who remained there ftir any ht'gtth of time died, or were' broken down inhealth ; but it woldh not be to tuchl to say that nine out of ten tf these cases were

'T' paper here tqot(4l from was writteu ifore the visit tif Mons. deI LtAaeps's tttgihteerl to theisthmus. As in ilistration of the sti-roitns if this point, if my b'elh'f as to the antount of springwater proves I it. I will sn, that, acvtrtliag to Mr. tIe Lesseips's pitn, there will be at least 47,000 yardsdistanei' in whiih the pria; of t'e canal must he txcavatedt in rmk. with the crom-sction proptmmdof W33 yarl, tr a iotal tf 15,651,0,00 cubic yards of rock exuavatitu.,under water, which, at $5 per cubicyard, would cost $7s,ui5,0o0.

I

INTELROCEANIC SHIP ('ANAL. 49

due e-it hr to tli' exc.e,.ses of the itilividual Ii, to tet, tiegihct of the simplest siuitaryrtles. alnd gelerily to hoth. II tfilition to this. ihiy.-i'ialJ w -i long tiole illlearning to treit the Fevers successfully. j Itlgintg fromt Ilie pt- it stltauIpoi lit. In myCIWii earliest Xlitlincle ill tht. waters of, tilt- ('arhiieai, a case it flver wlicl was.tred ill i week wits thlti r s.icces-ttt ll treated while to-ihl if the tevr is tiot

i trough lv hrokeii within tl- tirst tw ei ty-fiur hli.urs, it i hiki d i il a Ii. a grle, i1st ,.

l)issipiti i vertailly kills imore ll ickly itld surely i i the tli ics thail i a litil rateclimate. ,ndol ti that ext'iit l |lt andnomore is tilt climite resp ileilieo ttil vth t a 'tjor-it" of the serious iseaits inirtiitel within its litit. Frtomli o1 Vt 1 75 then, weree iglit. i.X lil i tiots to Iliilititilt iiirts if til. isthillits. solliiitiles, c'lliltil l the iips,"Compitnliei. thee were ii I liVS ti-ei. litind redI te ii 11niliyed. 'he. exioilsi. wl.ivtiec.ss trilv very si vere, ild yet not a siliugh nlaill died frto li otlic ieaillse. 4 tiettr two natives, worn iiut hy ilissipation, didi illll olni liatld s but itt oll lople it i tillesticcumbed.

Question by Mr. Ci.N(;EI:. LDis yellow tCe.c occilisionally pivail itl NiatratllaIn answer to this itUestioi I would slly that piorti'ucA lit' Nicaragit have itcrasiiially,

I hongh very rarilv hieen visiteil by yellow fever. It wau. hi.livell that it was directlytraceaile tot outside soiurli's in eqlclh iasp, a1nid t hat it is tiot lzi, i tligiclis ti thelocality tia to) omie ofthe imili nirthlierti lios of tlie Uniited States, its for examiiple.Norotlk, Va.. ill wh i(h it has iioc jii as itillv betn iiiorteil.

Ii reply to the qul.estion as tic tilt average telliieritttlre, I would Say that ill PalItliliand Nicaragi a it ave rages .02 Fall. tihe vear rouiil.

In I.stitilitlig the ltnitit iif labor that a ntii riiri itfrni a eomlpilorison is oftenmade between the Southern States (if the Aiericali liion with the isthiiin region.'There is one element in the latter which takes such at colpitrison aiiything hut afair one, and that is the trade wind which blows for so great. a portion of the year,anti whihli cases the perspiration to evallorate from thiit skin tit rapidly as to verygreatly mitigate the otherwise enervating effect of ti long continued heat. At nightin Nicaratgu it is seldolni that one can sleep comfortably without i blanket, thoughthe thermometer seldom shows a temperature ats low as 70- Fah.

Inli answer to thi intiestio ias to uiy pirefirence bet ween thilaaimaitiu or the Nitriiuaroutes for at canal with locks, I would say emphatically the latter. The two linesiossess several advantages in greater or less degree ill common. Anlong these the

momt iiportrant is the mlodherate elevation to eli- overcotiw, giving tin Opti Cutl withcoanlirativelv fiw locks. While both possess salubrious climates, that of Nic aracguais rather the muore so. The work ii'consritrlction will lie iliterfered with by rain T'esill Nicragaili; tlan "in 'ilinlilnla. Nicaragia hats von hideraily the aldvantige in geo-graphical position, partictilhirly with references to its Pacitic terminus, which is Goto0iiles nearer San Francisco tihan Panama ild for sailiig-vessels, its has beezi so ad-llirably detnlitstratel by Lietteniut Collins ill his paper read before the colnlnittee,owing tou the prevailing cilmis in the Bay of Painit the lift reice is much greater.Owing to ite flict tlhit tile cits wotid lie ileeper il the Paniia line, though theaietuil length itctilnal wolhd lie coisidiraibly less, there wotid lie at great, aloitofexcavtion required than in Ni-trairia. Adold to this, titi cost ot the feeder, thevialuct, and itf oir allitional loks required cill the ILanalllna line, iakes the aggregitocost very illich greater there tha in Niciraguaio .

Tile Plania litie losses s over Nicaralia tile nilvantageS if fo irly goiil iottts 1tplicwhich (iui rili i vely I ittle lied lie eXlienledl at wll-ltuilt railway, w hose track isitt xo lilite llir* t atilli I ' t64 from the title of" ti ualill, . til a iestiil ishlel vllcanci illtlltlli' t ilil with ntli lV fll. lip'hriltnciplO ports of the world. Tht si ll

° other ilvai-

tiges, hlov.ie vl. are ducidleilly ill fliiVor iof Niar il.argn.Nivail lita woitil ie ahmilti liltl y 4lil toi sltij :dly ll il.i ll ptoliilict i t.1itill athill

vit tatllte, w litihh t.ittlhl lie ru.ciii.d for ti llt hi tliut til- hiio tcue, s liiil ii .iiiilliet cotstriictul withiii itb liiiit.,. 'li' .ie is ill : hilllllilit s pllq if illilti i:tls fill- clli-stritcticil. itild li liv otlie sr ces ii lrtile lictil it' cotlluouliih. valilt. : (.1d, Sil\ .ii'. cf-I'e. illi. ili)tci't, hints. liiii.i. fitrliite, d .l i a h ct-\VOulIs, iii g'e.at vaici'tiS-iil~i;L-

l'loll 1it I tL l i-j)4-l'I.h l lt .ilig m l iii nii fte llltl°,

illi ot lill .

'l'l l Pii iclilimii (t' N' i;i ligtl i.s itllatil it frii 12.711,00ii ii 11i0.1ili 1 hilt it i., cili1i1l--siilh to NiiV %% ithiii 11u.110i, . tiltl li l i11.1v liiihti ii Ii tilt (i' it' the ( g \ ira-tieIlit at etillitilili i, iiutc. r t vel i'y . 1'lliltiC. ailt', ilw;icvs riesistil hy tlli llil it, igln litlortin l it til itlialiitiil,-t wiot lok tltlt thtlti :i c lit it uloi % li h hi Ii lic. tatxi-tiot i inftre iilitarv 'clvi . ks Iiiive '1iill ilii ow itlN- h ili rellt, ioht thinkthe ilha itllitl i i ce ilh| h rI.lh.Iiic tiplii tit fillli.sh ;uil. ii un; ihid raldl, l11rim tii ill' the l mllicrorci liessillry for lt- che i iist litit i (if a 110i Ipit icilitny il ew ie i the illcii' .tleiatd tisii un all rol hictivy elitirpisilil hitl ch a wkitk iii II gi .

avere to ir htcking lln tinhintillit hili\( i lierrilli hard | orlk vu bi t Illiiitlli'-nilnds it, ltit their vittits ai' .4i ifwv, sild so ealtsilv sitiplitlhd, thlt there is tici realincentives to work. It is the artiticitl niittei iore thian t ililtiral Willts of it p oiplewhich iake themt thriltv, itid thewi hive not invaded the les cultivated classes of

4 1YT*

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

t he repllil' iiaeh as ye, though i htre is a growing disposition to wear mhoes, and totelelt other fi'liiiens A hirh are looked upon as puIrly ornamenutal, affecting the person

-mly iliis far, lnt likely to extend Io tile habitations iu time, particllarly as examplesilIncenvase.

F'rom ily own knowledge ef th g,,vernmn t and people of Nicaragua, I feel assuredtui they aeiel a ladv Ito lake i s liberal eib 'era'essi to any company, who are respli-silhlh. [til who will actlelly lei ut into execution the work of construction.

From a point three miles below Castillo Viego, on tiln Sau Jnau Liver, to the mouthof the San ('arlos. h o re it is proposed to leave the river, the proposed impro vemientsatre as much in ('osta Rianl territory as in Nieragnan , the right bank of the lowerSall . nan is ailst) chlimed by (4,eta Riva; but I ain assured by Mr. Peralta, the Costa,lican minister, that his governinlent is eqitally well disposed ill the matter.

WASIN'GTON, P. C., March 8, 188O.

STA°I'EM'NT O1" ('I uINT DE LESEPS.

('01111t lEP IIINAND flE lI*'- Ei.l plojector of the Panama Ship ('all, canle beeforethl, co l lll ittte at its l'e'jli-.t.

ThP' ('llAIIRMAN, The 1mololllt tee will reinllehmer that on Sat irlay hlst it 'olife'rredil) 4ille tile plhasant dlty fti ilvit'ing ('oint 4h* l.esseples anl Mr. Enlsl to al p ar he-

f,'e the commlittee te-lay. Tlivy are both present. Tthe comlittee will 1l11w havetile pleallrl of hearing ( ('lllt 4he Lessps.

('ount de L'essels. .Slapakii g ill French (Mr. Appletonii acting as interpreter), re-fiillvd his thanks t' the etollittee for tile ionor conterred upn)1 him. He said tilt hiso1 ijee't ill coming 14, Allieriva i to illlish nii tile' information 1that lie' etld about thecaal cote el'plis.e, ail lie' N,*I presei. t on tiils occasimle to answer frankly anlil clearlyyxvhiatever t estiolnsiighit le ke'Il, lie' pu'eselnted to the c'mlee ittee a vollmie 'on-

tailliug tilt, vlilite's ol the P'a'ik rolligres and giving a eellehplete' Ilce'ela t of Jill thattlolk la1c' fill that ov'e'isioln. Ire' vX!lprised bie lkpleasil'e' o1 seeing l'e'seit to-ilay Nlr.le'loe'll, x'iloio lie hid Ilit It ie' P l'ris I'l ellgi vs. Ayll eeN ' . who wold readti lile re'lport

" \olill e' l iicrefl ly cil ei'lrtilielniv iv'rvtl'i1 illii was beli t le'i' ,l' adedl ,'tha! i" teiunldreel nd iliore' illimbr's wle ma eri, prveiia, sev'eiity-eigiht votei f ri thePauiinii lie'. sneie, e'iglit vell itil:illSt it, a11ii1 tw el e' de''llinil tee vote lit all. liereiinirke''l that Alhiii'al Aiiiiiielt wa Iii'.st vil'e-e-l''eiscit ait t iei Paris cellirl'e'S., a iiei hisat ile is (Mr. 4h, L-Sw.lees iigli t hiatiel cil that (ll'4iisa i. 3tli'e than t years agoe lie11:14 hieeii (t, the oplliiiilli that i lie' e -u iilv se f lif a Forii thle' naviigaltiOn li till' Amiieri-canli Isthiins Iy large sliil; wa a tilde-ielir cilti' 14 witlitt llestl'iietiol-i of any kind.

n\ igOiti lii had very nilielh ehiliigced ef late'. le'orioc'rly, s hips wri'e dillylv hI'llr times aslliig as t hey Ai NNi'' l, Nowee , lt-i. \' eINre twev' liilit's er uilllee 1As logl i. they werewihe'.

"l'hiis 'lniigem ' if thl' eol'tl'l tcielit S"ililes vai Cllt' i'eael11 li y P411tnliihill invi:Iitilliwa'as as ehliile as, r heale' thlu, iliviigatioi b.\ sililiig-ships and i iv ,liij 'lll1i1

macle now lili.t lee ialleh 11r ol' te'1 .lii.hhill thaiil fol sailiiig-N e'ssels. "ThP,' AillcitecillCX llorliolt thi- istliiii l. i'lie lli k . eel iil yea51's me 3i h l'leii byi "1 - tvie' beest thilt had1i ee 'elit :e4e' hilt tiey hiel lelegl 1111lioll en wrnig theory, stiitill g t li eid, front tie'

il te'rior ect' the e'uietiv aniil sillpelillg thiet it was iie'e'essarv to hiiye ii lecevk calil.Vlie'n li' iiliele'iiteek tee iild tile' sit, caililal, -V years age, iil siil that lie' wihli'el totiile' it a I'ive'i' frnti sea teo se';i, lit \\'.I, oui ,iilervl a nlltimi ll.

Teir, \a ert, 1-1 llri'e-tl'.s ef' eaiel'. lel'e'nt,e lit theil Pnri s t'l-lss, lint til' ii.te'i sthad ctllir,hy e.lte'l''i ill tile, Nii'algia 1 lll l'cllccmllli reellteie jeuiel tlif-ert, lnlless'lhcil Was, ic sl ee'lil desire teo tie e'eliti'ary, he Wlld ill4,e11ilie. hilisvlf tee at lleirijetilli,,I' lhe ad valit a te' anid dislvalitages lt tlihe twoe le fls. lit this cell lie'e-tielli lie ]:lhilllforec e l eeiillitte'l ii mij cll' ]lell lf tl' is.thill eolthlil'h ill the Vashingtoi Postnf this iernileg. As tee ie'll- Nicagila.1 Canal, Mr. Mfelloi'nl hal giveli explilliti lli ofit to the eiilliittee' as lie hill giveil thliie te he Pari couigrss, Oily of I lie oljectionsto thait route wa, that it weiil' lt ii e.essaI'y fi st to oenilstil'ltlie harbor of Brito, andieethir leJection tee it \v'ii thtilt it wits 1imtihsi ll hey that roite to meake a se'a-leV'i

,Pll-1. It ft Wl'e eeteri iie'! ltoi lel it lock 1il3d, anld if' tlere eeeoul not be a catiallet-w( the two ee'ellns except a loek calillal, their there wias no doubt, that tle Nicar-

u-giia route was the best reelte. loweve'r, as eni of' the projects for the NiecaraguaCanal eoiitetniielitedl 17 leeks alid thlt oihel centeiliplate 20tt lo'ks, lie consi elrel thatlie useless at a he' line nvi ration. leba ilse' it woull nlt lie 1ptoible to sentid a largeshiip through that line in lem thiu tive o six dy i' tine. Twenty-five years ago h olind met Senntor Simmter in Lonelit, an hi d lia a leng talk with him alout conmer-lial inatte'rs. At that time the tonnage in sail iieg-,hl ,s anoeintedl to a nt five and a1ilef million tonse for the lniited States, five nmillhin tons for England, and about five

. INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 51

million, for the other nations of Europe. Since that time, however, on account ofthe civil war in America and other reasons, the eoiiterce of the I'nited States hadgot entirely Ibehindhand. He thought, however, that this Panama Canal would domore titan anything else to resiisvitate that ionuneree. It would not only do that, bitit would increase the business of the railrotls, beientu although many persons thoughtthat railroads and canals were in opposition to each other, that was not the ease.There was nothing imore striking in that respect than the example of the SuezCanal. Then it wa. thought that it would interfiere with the railroad fiot Alexandriato Suez, lit instead of that the business of that railroad hald been quadrupled sincethe canal was opened, so touch 4114 one kind of cotniniiati.t hellp another kind. Asfor the political question involved in the opening of the Panama Canal, that was nothis affair at all. He had not come here to give any political opinion about the matter,except to say in a general way that it would be more for the advantage of the canalin case of any difficulty that it should have t powerful nation like the United Statesto protect it, and that the United States ({overnnient woull be naturally the firstgovernment to be looked to for its protection.

Mr. CoNGER asked Mr. die Lesseps his opinion as to the San Bas route.Mr. ID LEssm-s replied that the San lIlas route had been carefully stilied by the

Paris congress, and that some of til, etig itners who were with hit on the isthmusthis winter had examined the Sian BIn. 'iutt,, lut tie great oiuJeetlon to it was that itwould be absolutely necessary to build at ttnitl through a nountaint 'rot 7 to 10 mileslong.

Mr. ComNit asked him whether he (.itnsidere tlit a tunnel was entirely impracti-cal ile as a means for construction I initil.

Mr. tw LEsslrS replied t'lut as a1 pioe of engineering a tit iiie was not illossildlo,although it was very dit-lt, ltt tlnt un vi gators cnsiderl a tinntiel as n11 obstaCle,andl that vessels cold not go thliigh sii'h a tiltittel t'tet it was blilt. lie went onit) say that the Patianut roWte wa, really tile roiti which Atiericins have discovered.It was more an Anri'an rioulte than aiy of tih others proioseil. ite had studied thediterent idoinnents andi papers anl e\lilanatios thatt hail heen sent to hint, andwhich led him to have tlt congress hld at Paris. lie hail bet to l'anaia thiswinter siuzily to verity the teci.ioll whiii'h hail been llnlhi ill f.% or of thu Pananariiute. The discovery of that route wat lii- tio Amerivans-Cilmiv! Totten, Mr. Aspin.wit11, and others who hllt the i riinid. Thedihitlilty i the Sievz atial'was thatt he gr)ln(il there wias a harlill (lisert whlii rh eti ll "al ia ttittiitel, it111 thi r eat

advantage of tie liiiatna ri in ti i%,is tlit Ihire was t ni:ad aleadNy tiire., 'lThatra011ihail had e nailed Min til 41o ill six weeks this wi ttr whit tliihahi aly thi havetaken hitu at yelr to do if there N\ rc. tili railroal the. This ton ii wiol itrefiore lieoit' reat advanllta.ge in hiliihiig the canal. lie linid been lltill inmliiiil to h'llaata bytwyo Americans, (olonel Tot tit,, whilitti lie hal askeil to gio there (ti- eitistrctitor of

lie Panatia railroad), and (len. W. W. Wright, iif the UIititeil States enugiteers. Hohind never seen the latter gentlenuti 'ill Cob itiel Tote Lskvol him i to i iiililttial¢ tlieexiedition, alld since hi eattie tii Vo:i14it llieh hail Id heard I htitn l Slhirittti speakvery highly iif General Wright as a Iilist viliitet itgitier, wliiti ie hail limi4 withhim in his catlpaign.

Mr. (Ii'F.i t asked Mt'. lie Leswi.i, o-h1:t was Illentut liv til' sta telivit lhnt thlie threc-lion of tie adiiniuistrative, filtita tl, x1d ,ihli'ia! liffiirs of the eouttry wiiit he inParis.

Mr. IP LESStts replied: Teli c'litmiiy wioilid ie citntrilhld hy it- stielikhiildrs likoaxlv other l ,usillegts etitelipri. ''ae was ito i)ttivi;ii tro rl by any glivettnlitent (it)l-

titipliteid. If it ntajiiritxv if tit, ht)(ik of ti ititl v nl)an wtts sni)irilill tr hiy I nitoedStates eitizenti, tile uaili lnartirs of tie- ittilany miglit be )laued -at New York orWashiti.gton, or wherever thu stovkholeiris thou)aghit proper, I'hiat wa faioweid by thei ,iiiessiiott

Afr. 11u tCJntNis. Suppose that the catial cotnliany under its l)iesent plans should netidroivertnltint pirotectioin, what golveiletit Woi OI yoIt wall llioln I

Mr. ip. l,sscps. That does not ctlncern tile. Tile united d States oiverment himrepresentatives all over ti world, awtl, thy van tiswer when much a question cotiftil. Bitt I think it would lie better antl inore int ralfor t he ledqlluarters of the cotn.pany to be ix, the Unitd States.

Mr. Coi iNEt. The report remiteil by yotx says that the adii nistrativt,, financial,tIld .ttieial atTair of the i otitry shall l)e controlled at Paris.

Mr x, LEssEts. rho ampeinliY of' shareliohlers is mvereign. and can disjtose of Lhatquestion. If the majority of stoek is heht biy Atericans they call have the head-quarters of the company either at New York or Wastington.

Mr. Cliixw&g. Is it, not the intitntiou (as twet forth in this report) that thejlicialdecisions in regard to the canal shall be all at Paris, awl that the courts shall takeeutgnizatnce of all question# that shall rise f

Mr. us Lu'ssPs replied that that elaute wa interted merely to cover the ease ofany question arising among the stockholders, but was not intended to atfect alty gov-

52 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

ernmintal questionn touching the vanal. He' had h'ft with the society of civil engi-neers in New York a plan in) relief of the whole' ouitry around the line of the PanamaCanal. leginning at th Atlantic coast the harbor was very good. All that wasnecessary was to make a pier of votisiderable , length. Not far ft'cin the river ChagreKthe soil was ery soft, aid easil% removed Icy hrge drelginig machines. The bed (etthe river Chagres, near the Atlan ic, woild lie very useful as part of the vanal: butthe trouble with that river was the overflows to which it was silject, and of whichthere had been a striking exilnihl this winter. 1-ew remedy that it was proposed tohave a large dam across tlie river near Matuehin. That dain would be forty yardsin height. Behind the ('lhagres River at ('ruces was a plain surrounded by immense,mountain, anl at that point it was proposed to tild this dam. By means of thatdan there would be in innense easin to hold the water coming from these extraordi-narv rims in the Chagre's Riv'vr. Colonel Totten estimated that this basin could bemaie to hold a thousand million metric cubes of water. Thme maximun estimate ofthe cost was four million dollars, but Mr. de Lesseps jn'rsonally thought that it couldhe 'onstruectel for less than tlhat. lie had, however, instrueted tle engineers to makethe highest 1eessihle estimate of that work. That great work would aid very inchthe fertility and probalbly the healthfrulnhess of the country, and could be also easilyadapted for t'urnishitg a supply of water to the cities of Panama and Aspinwall byttmeautts of pipes. That, lioevel', was oily all auxiliary vonsidteration. Tle rocks thatwould have to lie taken from the mountain Culebra. which separatesthe river Cmag resfront the Rio (irade, would lie used in building this imnme'nse artificial dani. le hadvisited General Newtm's works at Hell G'ate tie other day, and it was there estimatedthat tie cost of this dain would be less than the estimate which had been made by theengineers oil the spot. General Newton had examined it himself, and had figured itout. at considerably less than the engineers had miade it. The estimate inade ill theUnited States generally for rentoving rock of that kind was about Ai t cubic neter,but tile estimate in this case had heen immlde at$7. It was the sante with the dredging.A higher estimate had livee male for such work than it would probably cost. Therewere three instances of such lanms already in existence more important than this one.One of these was at Alieante in Spain, which was 5t meters high, ani which had beenin existence for three eeituries. Another of them was near Paris. and another nearGheut, in Belgium.

Mr. MARTIN asked its to the width of the proposed canal at Panama.Mr. Dr, LssEi's replied that it would b rio yards at the surfae' and *22 at the' hot-

tomi. He said that vessels should not he allowed to lags each other in a canal, andtherefore it was not necessary to build a canal wide enough for vessels to pass eavhother. In the Suez canal there were stations six miles apart where vessels alwaysstopped and coniunicated with tile next station by telegraph, thus avoiding alldanger of collision.

Mr. MARTIN askel how long it would probably take to complete the Pananma canal.Mr. Dg LassEm's replied that the engineers had estimated eight years as the extreme

tmine or the revaonahle titne necessary for its construction, but he himself thoughtthat by hurrying it up and putting ol a large nunher of ilvli the work might be coin-ie1ted in six years.

Mr MARTIN inquired as to its cost.Mr. iwem' LE I'si,;,s r4 di.d that the estimate of, cost was $lt6800(,(N0 ), hut that that in-

clilled somit' work wli.. h it woulel lie onlY necessary to execute after the catial was8act ially oipeneild uil' foravigatli, ier liihiig touches

Mr. MARIiN asked vhal giliratee he could give that it would be copiUleted in sixor eight years.

Mr. 1m: 1,AssI-,.s replivd that lie would give Io) guaranite' at all, and asked whatglalranteie th leligi iuc.rs tit' lhe Brooklyti bridge had givvn as to the time in whichtimt w ork shmlll lit, comlete.mql. I

Mir. MAmriN ai -ke'l Mr. tit, Lese'lis whet her lie could give reasonable assurance thatthe canal would lie co tlileti either in six or eight years.Mr. I. Li:.Ls8l,:is replied that iin lhis personal opin ccion it coild le. If' he were an en

iiver he woid ask eiglt years is reustaletine to'r its construction, Iit he thoughthiinselt' it cui0hId Ie 110)1e. iii Six years. Ift it weite not tier the Pianania railroad, tun ortN tl 'e years w en1 1 ,lifi. i r ftt lie ciii.st r'ct uitt cif ilie' (i al. The tact of itsbceinmg so neatr th the, I'ai ed States and the fact that all the iachinery necessaryVoiihld 1cw' Ici' ire'cl heire \citlhl lit, i groait help.

Mr. CONUiEi iuiiireL whether thie Paaina canal wmihl reililire locks.Mr. te Lrss-l's rellpiel: Ntit at all,Mr. ('eCoximi reia'kedcl that his cliesilin referred to tide-hlcks.Mr. ie LssEt's replied that ia port or ithi (not a loc.k) might l c'cnsiledri l nev'es-

sary oil the Piacitle sie, .iist as it httl lievii consihred necessary in the Suez ('anal.bitt that whei they hlad got toe work our the Suez Cintl such ai port or lasin was uoitfiuild to let needed, anIi he dhil not think it would bee netled lit this cae. The move-mient of the title was really an advantage to ships, bet use it would keep up the eir-

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 53

eulation of the water. It could be easily managed. There was no obJection to thatat all. Some engineers thought that a tidal lock woald be necessary, but he did notthink so.

Mr. OioGER remarked that the rise and fall of the tides on the Pacific side was from14 to V feet.

Mr. liE LpsscPs remarked that Mr. Michel Chevalier thought soie. years ago thatthere wits a rise and fall of the tile on the Pacific side something like 3:) feet, but thattince then that estimate has been very much reduced. During his own visit there thiswinter it was not more than 12 or 14 feet. At present that rise and fill of tie tide d;lcause some commotion there on account of the level and marshy nature of the soil, thetide rushing in with considerable force; but he thoglit that when a channel of some '26feet in depth was cua beyond the harbor itself into the sea it would change that thingentirely, and that the water running through this deep channel would go uiore slowly.He thought that the difference in the rise and fall of the tide would present no obstaclewhatever. He was very glad, after ten or eleven years' experience of the Suez Canal,that nothing had been done in the way of constructing a tidal basin or port, althoughthe engineers had thought one necessary. The movement of thtb title was really anadvantageous thing in regard to the canal.

Mr. Coit;ER asked what the rise anti fall of the tide at either end of the Suez Canalwas.

Mr. DE, LESSEPs replied that it was about six feet.Mr. SIN6LETON remarked that there were grave doubts whet her a channel opened

ip by dredging in the swamp lands near Aspinwall could le maintained, owing to thefiact thtt the pressure of the sides would force the bottom out, and he asked whetherthat point had been taken into consideration.

Mr. DE LESSEPs replied that the two Dutch engineers who had accompanied him tothe isthmus had had much experience of the kind, and that they thought there wouldbe no trouble in the matter.

Mr. P.-tiE remarked that it wits believed by Commander Lull that the spring waterin a soil so saturated is that of' the isthmus would remder it impossilde to void thewater below tide level, and that in conseujneuce all excavations below that levelmust be made under water. He asked Mr. de Lesseps what were his conclusions oiithat poilt.

Mr. i.- L.ssEms re lied that Lieutenant ,Maury had answered all those oblections.Mr. , N I;.KrON asked whether in a region where the annual rainfall is ton 100 to

141) inches the safety of a dnm could be reckoned en from any exlrience which Mr.4le Leuselis had had in countries with a moderate ramiall, like France, Spain, andBelgium.

Mr. iwE Li.-ssaEs replied that all their calculations in regard to rainfall had beenmade by Colonel Tottviu, an Aniiltricaln engineer.

Mr. Sisumkmxro. remarked that the uluestion was whether the daui could support thepressure.Mr. D LEs .sms replied in tIh' affirmative.

Mr. IlUTCHIN S asked whether the c'liaracter of tie stone along the lrOlosed r-0ntehad leeii taken into consideration.

Mr. ie LE.SEPs replied in th affirmative, and said that lie had taken geologistswith him for the special purpose tf' examining this stome, and that their relprt wasvery favorable. There was a special stone used on the railroad there which caie fronia ( uatrry close ly.

11r. I'TCHINs a ked whether that stone was sufficiently durable for the constructionof such work or for a sea-wall.

Mr. iE LEssrPs replied in the affirnative, and als) thbat there was a sufficient quan-tity of such stone.

Mr. I'TCINtS asked how many vessels a day could pass thrmgh the NicaraguaCanal, sU posiug it to be built with 17 locks.

Mr. tuX L :SSEPS replied that each lock would require two hours, even it' everythingwent on well.

Mr. HUTICHINs asked whether more than one steamer could pass through a lock atone time.

Mr. ia LssuPs replied in the negative.Mr. HUTCHINS sait according to that not more than 10 or 12 steamers it day could

pas through the Nicaragua Canal.Mr. Dr LsnEPs atsented. Hle would say 15, &4 the greatest number that could pass

the locks in one day.Mr. HtrrcumNs put the question again in a more formal manner as to whether it wam

Mr. d' Lesseps opinion that not more than 15 of the largest sized vessels cofu bmnavigated through the Nicaragua Canal in a day.

Mr. Dr, Lssurs replied that it was very difficult to calculate the matter a'eurat44y,but that that was his opinion. He also alded that the effect of volceanoes and earth-

mquakes would be very serious upon locks, and that such phenomena were much more

54 INTEROCEANIC lIfIl CANAL.

frmlnent inl Niru raglia t han iii Panama. Their effect would be merioiim 111)01 canlatlovkm, thouiagh he did nolt believe* it w~~ould lie. important oin lin ordinary cala

Mr. lii- cuii %. flow many veo'wt114 of t he 14:111n1 %i?.e could4 he navigated inl a daythrough th lit o41ipImld I'mI~iik (Canal !

Mr. s.E IEIiEvi' reid t hat at ]#list 1PH4 'g('mM.IM could( pat~ss through h Paitamna('4611111 III'(all'*e it U-0141 ie fI'litlite strait. Ill I~tz(ailws1K i log, %-]tilethis P'anama C'anal would be onily 45 mile's. tit- addled that although lie hadl made anIslpoinltllleut too 11e ill fihli ladeiph in, to-mornr x, het wouldl remain over for another tinyiI cam-' tile comm40it tee s11441 1( desire himx to (144 mo4.

The ('iiAIRMAX vxiprtssd the dusiri' of' the commtiittee' that Air. 414 Lesgelis shoulldremlainl o'.l and lilt4 -h 4liliittee'. I hell i 44jo4i4.id %% ith ile unlderstandliig that after Mr.tie Lt'em-s had fi iui..i'd1 huis Ktatemietit to;-uorrow 18r. Eatis would lie heardl.

WASIIING'hi N, D. C., March 94, P(#0.Staitemtent 'If cmi-r liv I. F.~$issm '114 cnimoed

Mr. SN-(.LF-rtIo. It wIMat4 1mi fly pm) yesterday that no' title-lock would be nioces-outry at P'alnama. IPA it pl~r4Ii-A4 to excavate a, (anal to a depth of V~ feet loelow thewater-level : aul, it' -;4, to) What 41 444414 inl the Bay oIf Panama will it be necessary to,ciint illil44 this5*t'ii'i atil 441 before at 414'jth of '.)s feet at Ileatd low-water iR foid 1!

Mr. lit. I :Fsvis. A little over two milem.NIr. t~ ~ . 4e.Will It( rle mwll (I4tsut (Iredigiiig to keep tboit lillellI'Mr. 1 i:1P.1 I think t'at onc v10444' it will mti nm o. 1 thin k so fromi my4 eXple-

F1'ti'4' with 14t- iiei' Canalo.M r. (' Nt* li iske 4d Mr. lDe IL.sselis w hat eth'i'I flie regiol (of cairns iii flt-e I'aeit

Otcall woulI d i I. on 1v igait hoii to 111 lol lo IIhe,- 1'a4u11111a ( 'aiil bly mailiiig-% e-.04-M.M r. Dv:1.Mt~' replied thait Mr'. 11imme4I, a44lit fitlel l)t* the IFreni navy, who was

familiar wol i tOa re'giel. %%Il (4 Ir4epu. alil ' vIii ld aii-wei the' (pie4mt 1(443Mr. 1141 INN * Sta4ted4 Itat liet oveit along the1 %%lit w region~ (ot tile Amieri'4t4 Isthini44

wats mom' or le-so sol 'jet lo tiulij, but mi mo~re MI) att l';44414444 thn at other lpnrtM ofI lit1st hxontM. lHe VX 1Iri-SA-41 t' 4 4414444 t hat thle tipiiii'4iig (it' t 141 canal wtiill higd' tileMS MtI'44 oIf 4444tigaiol 044 Wlle 5144 i ig- Vesmt'l toIstan-esel ill thle Anierivatt comm44er-cial m4ari444e. ,14t am t he oljs'jiitig (it' the ' uii7 ('modl lad 4114444 with the~ Engim mhlrinie,M4I that thle i lifeMIion Iii 01ing-Vemsels 'A 111 110t (If 543 to llIVhi iiilit~rt:1ti e. Moreover, liethought that MU il i ig- e'uK'~v 14 id ailolpht il miixiIi ary 4i41i ine by A. hichi they ('044 Idnavigate' ill t he 1411444 m'agi4I4m. L~ieuitenanit Mabiry, he mauid~. was5 ('onitlered ll1 over ftewoIrld apM t he griomvK( au4thoirity uitl thlit regionI lit calis, aiid it waM LieutenlantMatiry'?s liolk that with. etiirely iist'il at tithr l'Util ('4.tgresiA to gret in4formaiitionl

Mr. ('o N~imt re'iiarke'l that fromfi te exam4inuatin 14144541 repoortst of Ame44ricanl offiverit alilit'Iretl that tilie- l'aiiia route Iwats liabhle to thim 4,litect 11 on ae'041t (If the ('4111latitudes tioposite P'anamia 4444 flie- Pacific ( leent while the Nicaragua and I. 'ell italit I -rvneultt-s were not liable it? tha44t ohill't ill. flit Wi-11ied to know w lwther tt qhuestion41

or (51445 ad es~ntakji ~it imnideratit 411 ly Mr. I -' -ps.Mr. flimmrFI replied that at a distance ot .1 (iir 4 iiiilom from the Jsthifai coast tlbert-

WSW lit) difference inl thle region of ('81111s inl the IJji' i Oeean Rlonlg thle Whole tli4-tau' Thie e'.intit iisM 'm en,' the samle it few m4ilem from the( coast-lI oe.

Mr. (P41~ u~ilii- 1 e whether Mr. llioie's illea % as that the modite oif traimplortiI-tirn woti1d It. d'iatiged ilI favor (if tei'aelandt that Railing-vv'stels would not b&'used W1 irin1ch.

Mr. RioNNI':replied in hat tiliingvehiuelM mould414 gol out (if vogrut. foor xeali na4vigat iongenrtahlly all oI'. tile %1 o i~rld.

Mr. Oi N4.i I 1ojuired how it 1441d p~roved i3 t hat 4'emloeet wit h the $ieY. Canal.Mr. IlK LvYmsrt-s replie'd that out of 14M4 ships th~at go through the Slier (atiitl t(I-dity

go (If them, are Mteal'rs-, 84411 t hat gi ilig.% eMt4'l. art' 4tbsaoianii (44 eey Hestaid that fte Engliksh, sivit ' the Suez Caiial Wait first oplt__ -4, _ii_ - fiet' ('hligi .Tig the('taracter of t h~eir eselot 'trp4 si ling to st eaim slhipA mid"14 t hat flow there, were itom1e-fiing l ike 1? or 1.41 largo Eigfisa votupaiies that did( al11 the mercantile bumiiies

betweteii En"glanld And1 the East (alitiosit all (If which biMmitic'ss hadl been formerly finteby Ilie Iiiite'i s~tt's Vtaihiiig-% e~mM4') Withl ltt'a1444'r'. lit- 5(1(l4I thAt A eCeranylin w3A.now being formifed 414 Now Yolrk tol etahblisli dir'ect tradle it ftb e East through tit('sin'a ('ail.

Mr. 40. Tuuxitt ini)tii-ol whe-ther all thie VAriEmii roulteM for the cannl had loe4 Mur-veydmide 1111 pe'4ct eligiuleerst. and wleptbi'r rellortsi or thoms ur1eym with mtiap.siul p"Irwflem 1341(1 all 11eeia mlade (itit.

Mr. Dw. IrYssv"~ replied that all (if tin howd 6-nu thorolighly studied, and that allthe rutiteM hadl han intadi more nrefattyllly441bette-rsair;'-eyed by Americans thorn btaothers. It wa* (in the basts of tiese survey, after he t had utuidied then and hxAu had

INTEROCEANIC 8tlP CANAL.

all the reports sent to him for years, that he had called the Paris congress. lie re-ferred to the surveys of' the Tehuantepetc route by Garay and Shuflilt, and stid thatMr. Garay was at the Paris cougress. As to the Nicaragua route lie said that theEmperor Napoleon Il, while a pri mer at Hani, hald studied that route, and had gotup a plan and wisheil to have thecanal called the Napoheon Canal. Napoleon had sentCaptain Donay to iook at the roure with an engineer whose ninie Mr. De Lessejis hadforgotten. The plan had been published in London and Paris W2 ,ears ago. t waAalso to be found in the British Review in 1847. There were- other French explorersof the Nicaragua route, including Bellay and Bilanihet, but. the best explorations thatever had been made of the Nicaragua route were thoc by Mr. Menocal and Com-nmander Lull of the American Navv.

As to the i'anania route it had leen first surveyed by Lloyd, an Englishman, andthen Guerilla had male a proje' of it, which was printed in 142. A French engi-neer had done the geological part, it the work, bemides surveying it. Messrs. Wy,and Reclus, officers of the French mivy, had prem.uted a plan fur the Panama routewithout locks, and Mr. Menoial and Commander Lull, of the American Navy, ha1dalso explored tlit route. General Wright, Couel 'Totten, Mr. Dirks, the lutchengineer, and Mr. Boutan had examined the route thiH winter. This last exploration,which was merely to verify foriuer explorations, was really the nmost complete surveythat hal been made in so short a time, because the engineers -A re scattered all overthe Isthmnus. They hatd (iviietd the work betwevvn live brigades, eavh taking aboutten miles, and e ich reporting every day to the central couimissiou at Panama. Theyhad beeln 45 days there, but if the Panama Railroiad hald mt hei built it would havetaken tie party about a year to have done the work whih they m ere able to do in 45days. As tot lie San Bhit route, it had liei exaw xiiiiI ,y Comimiiiaher Lull, LieutenantCollinis, anld Coimiander Kelfridge, of lie Aiiieriian N avy, ali hy sm unit Roclus ufthe Freneh Navv. Mr. Kelhey nf New York, liid also dleveltil his tiiua'iiiiliie toit.Although Mr. Kelley was not ani engilleer hliimmelf, lie had eit at gilod lialy engietiersout there..

Mr. 0. T'itN R asked Mr. Iv Le.ss4les whether he heh.ie .d that those i'lrvetsy iexaminationitlal lieei thiuroiegh, and whth ter any I ie'tlie'ial rit..il tr cii lit be exlec'teitfrom i resurvey tit thom routes.Mr. D .li; ... . relied lint iii hih iiiiii t iwe ii lie liii ohbie'ci iii itmii ig anly

-iore expditioens to the Isthiius. 'Thi troihle with all tle expedit iois Iti ) tit theitieting tif' the iP 'aris u'ingr~i's was t lhat they tauti guilt' thire. uitIi thi idea that aciial with icks A as lieveearv, uiilt that they hail III.veI stidhmiei th. gi'iilid withthe idea of coeitrautiig it inh wit lioit lucks. Hi regi.ite that all tle stmilihs hadbetei i10141' ailpuarent ly wit hI the idea t hait a lv.k-i'Lial ts iecessary. The qti'stioiiwas whether coiiiiler'e tittd ix long canial with tist.lc., oi it Short ciilitl withoutobsti'les I That was the whole quetiStili.

Mr. HINULETieN niOVed that the thimliks iif the cimiiittee le ret uretid to ('ount DeLetlimps for his polite atteiilait', muid for the itiforiiati i %hiich hc had coiiuni-eatet.The noting wits aldolited uaninotsly.Mr. L L.ss i' s expressed his; appi.ciition of' the kitidle' of the cumittee, and

Raid that although lie was not present tio talk piditict, but to give scienitic viewabout the canal, lee could not refraii fr i styiig how % ery much deliglites lie waswith thee Presilent's Iiessage onl the siibject. lie had ri.ad that niesage this morning,anid lie considered that it would 'ertainly be ailvauntageous for the [ailed States toprotect the eaitial during the work and after it oi'ed. Hei had juit sent a liltssage to

is sonl, at l'ari,, to isay that the Pregident's liemsige aee llred the security of' the canal.

VIEWS OF MR. JAMES B. EAIIS.

WAHINI;T., e (.'.C. .arth 1i, l A'.r.Mr. EArM adli'-114.d thle coMiliittee as follow:In commelitilig ilponi the ilije't if Coiit de Le1etlim, I shall emsiiler tihe subject

simply as an engineering one, and in relation to its practicalility ; its lrobhle costthe tile needed for its e'mldetion anil its utility whloii VOI ilete4d.

The question of' th practicaibility it' opeuing a tile.h'vel wai'r-m ay through theAmerican 1stiism i siilply a qiuestioni of money iuld if tiie. If yittlie'iit iitioieywere sUplihl, and lime eiough were given, I have no liiht that. instead of theij a-row and tortlomims .tre'ai whi'hi Count tlie I'M.le I priji~ilt tit llt'at' at the iottoinm ifan artificial eaftit o be cut thrmglh the Cordillerag at Paiinii. engineers could giveto cormnerri a nagiil'ent strait thruugh whose brmad auii der.p channel the tides ifthe Pacific would be felt on the shore of the Caribeau $'ea, and through which thecommerce of the next century might pas unvexed from ocean to ocean.

INTEiIOCEANI(' SHIP CANAL.

Thp vlawan nf i-tiginvi-ring tvat-liv.% thotw wh:) Itractiti. it ]flew tilt- fisrvi- elf natnroma - lit- ittili/,vd An thp Immi Ht of mankiiiI all I it I lhv di"; of a" jqq"wPr %hot4 harard m idi thp ripulnobtlity (if Qving an Mtwara enginevring prollivill, by'ahIch Ili-4 fi-1101A-1114-11 lkl't- tit Its- hvittfittil. tit twisitivi cari-fully how tilt- desired rt--stiltIt I sell Ite in"O WpN and moAt quickly twunitil. Thi-i-efiirv, it i-. hi.,4 dnI3 14) con-sidi-r 4,%vr tin-thod ftir tilt- avromphAnwal of IS Plud in vivM: %s, 11"ll Svirml. albl, Ila-twr ImIlphu"I a aid" hk Imurn and to mW1 Mini M full"em. of lhPir nhnvm munrnpil""Im the- pre-rim, tuaildn, of matisvinathts awl a kn"m hAge of t1w Wwm wh".11contri it tilt- filrti-,.4 it' nattirl, alli.-mri, h Q ad I UPHU"01 UNIM"dbahthe &.1rud n"Uh i athp levId timp and 6w thv howt imn"j.

W114.14. tilt gro%% ing 414-111,111d.., of f t'I'lillpic #-I tit tht. cri)."ing fir .4 rivvr, art- III) longerinet by tit(, n-A- i)fa ft-ury, flat- viiginvel hill,"g-I-XIM a lit idgv. and if) prv% clit ilkinry to theem"uwres, orthp Mew and noxv thv sawt iff wi ant emiv hvQht tu the- Wrun"w, he

phin% in It.% roadu fly a Mn litat "my ler opst-ned for the trafliv of till- rirr. andf ?r tit(- traffir elf the land. If the- trathr of villivi- hv ton gnmt in mlmh ad intenal,

tion. lit, -4 Own jilstifivil in 4-ni-fing a higher and inorv Ir stilly striwitire, which 1411till

Ivt tilt- conintf-rce lwnNdh it p"milt- illa path 1111interniptedly, while that Which de.Tnaink al ronle will Ila%.- 0% Pr It highWay, lint hi., profv wion inNin It ca-# like-%]-.#- t4liggvts Illint1wr alternative. !t IS 110"Whif- tO borv through theeardt Wmath thr nin, awl th" oqwn an imob-trin to-d Imth hy oiNT uumnq bw thetrait -%a -r-A- iiint it n-rii- Nat I fit If It if% gro%% if toss gri-at fi it ill,, tf-rry. lit-fiov it i oininend I figthe, vim'h lwidgl% it 1% 16% MR; to init-ligaor dsv nottit- elf thp tuntivi Mi. awl if heB"d find In hP the uIvalwritiol tlw olumbvi rvvnqy. he W"nild hy thp in" Ishux, unhnU th"r ad""aaWx a ah hi- ad% P v I" tlw lai--mihs . I I-wry lw6n- t6w, a h" am toInly Air it". awk

Whurs th-- I iminnoi P Wt " I c " I& PaQ and uv i lowl . it* till- Allanin gvev. -'o grvat

and imilm"n tit it, th."no"In that IN a ;nil% ad hn,% tit in, hingtvi- Whwd to h"Iv3 ittin. tilt a t-rld t% ., %tari Ail a fill th, lattoloo-it Usti tit has Ila.." an(ithut title. tit' naturt-'s

foll I I., t4t thu I af all 4 ultitilaull G.. and tilt I, Ill 41110 rt I#f 16.atll v. I t lo-1.1-1111011

initinillat, ly 11 ill tbu lit ,pll I 'I"n tol'tq 1 .111 hq,-. M ull tintol-.111% 11,111 114-4-11

4mllinval 1-1 I'llu a ll.tlllk, 1 ;111,114 WMIk low I"mil, sit ii-mbi. altInni-ji I'm Ulan% %var,4

lit fails lit, % Iutd I if slit fill- 1.114 v allidn at fit % #-,,f I- .11gavAil In 11% cl ll.IN i;.,atlon.'Wh, it tit-- I Irmo - t"mr, I u in a In I. It"- if% vi Ila% vs! tin, It" alit%11"1141 IS - Ia I low I& a lmd, , th ""W I Ulu" agmt, 4 ... 1,, fill-it Ituad"

t" tin "I th. Antieltitit it t. I I % W t 0 a, file- Ialv 4 (111, Thvy ltt,-wit UA. a"Old 1 tin, I amil. -it to I"AlaWin alp! it" 11 laft-j"Illi I % "I W 10 of Illd llwilnnl?4

I"! i6m tit Wk a lilt Taild "Itani thi- Idab .4 1 t"wng a I firs : !"if ifim. 1"ime-6 undprMer- all Tri "UnUill a u"P -it tin- aliltribvil till-1114111. tit tU;,, 1 Ini'l'i 114-1.

Qiv hihh% am! % akahh tsol ad Imml ha% 1- 611 if it I I.iinpil 1,% 4 lift ing c-tllal- inv hP h the -"p I I"- "W" to %%.tit I 1 111111 ll m t)tl it- '."\%I I I,\ I I., 1111i %t h- 11ysntljui -d ill I. - !-11111 do- land a lilt If Xa% 41111 1 1 IAvif it I,\ tilt, la v of

;1 1 411 111131 lit' t In. no WA. awl. h% 0", H-v lit M h4 p"qw-vel f" Illf "p lb- Sa"T airtIW Wv inn. I mak ""If" 11 ut ;0*#-\4 11 loil, 0.4 ll ktlllcl*- th, ir livadia I

Imt it wnv d I" apidt GO %im, ih t - Wd imil"wl, 14, rv, laint IS - waiminima", I lyd ht tv. ZN"h I Whq -

Thu 3var'k tit littil--to Aolllltvr v\I IMI, d 16, a at, I "-me t1wa halhara bUt"&O"am ninttat litilld tbv lmq% An th. " hl"Igs,4 ill Q. WWM fit thr 11%4-T. 1,111t thr 4 '11111111'reti

tif Wt- trai-t ha% obinandual liviligt-m %% buss. it vt I% nvct-ar tu, ioi-k lit; 1014-1. ill 11111chprif-mint.-t -h-pith-A. and fit#, tin- firvpwnt Ita\v ri-%ervfI t Ia. -ild int-thods.

and laww" lhv Wilknta id' to pirr% of to n lir"Im inia am Ilip alurhni ad to, ri%;T,nnd "nk %mgh- aim,"- iff nwwmr% at ah":g !awl, thiamand haian thiss"gh numenefl,

Wrala A all"% IS drIMMIl", thin " t" thr l"14m k It I:$, at III-111111A ll %I If-Iltific

l"Pt!""N tIO1411% "W"an tu, to, nw I"It..If hu horn4 in m""I bt N; into tina IS, -4 tuin, of t-tiginti-ritig i ha sil tilmn

n:ltllr.ll LIVk- that ;If(' al.-AtilltCy that fire-, thiroorv, alm,1111"ly rt-Imblv: and ilva thnugh the "mi"d ulawli *vit-titin, thaa-ovr:v hat, givii to tilt- A-n-gmerr "ir; tht- brui,% of "alit"-. tin- "niv hill , tit thv I"Wiailillitif-14 (if Ill- pripli-sitehmaIW% 1111HISM! Wily tit tht- Owl all' Tilt- 11411IL-4 NVIIII if ln- lorespowa tip snf-rittv. For thisroa--on. tilt- limit %%hn h aahotild d-Untrol III,- magnitiule tit' hin proji-vt% i4limil4l not ex-

4.14-41 Ow rval and flif- finanuial xlkilitiv% tit hijif fi-Ilim-men. But. xhooldthi-re ovi-itr a lirt-KIiing npM Eq a tover m) high that it saivall, penetrate tilt- re-gionm oftiti-rind -now. for an arrh PAi \:it that its ,pant mkt lit- nit-awirs,41 by the- mile: or a ttin-MPI thn"lgh thp broadf-St halef. (if till- R-trky Motintaiiiii: air a railwn that siball trans-Itort. t-utirv final nninjiirvil. thp grandpatt of IS Ea.vptWn p.yrantidn: ow a channelthrough !Mnpn lug ummgh I" ihatarh ty How ur the gulfatrearn and alter the pillsa.tion I& the. thirw; yent may liv x"nriqt that vach anal sit fir them. thingh, and, milebnow% nP. nithill thl. af ho protlemion. it voti will only fitrubah thg- ino ey10 IM) 6W QML 11"Pr any intr4ligon, t-vigialfarr. listing a jast coureption ofthe im-nlelim. 4-allithilituWf hie, am, will at isilli- vonvenir that it is entin-ly IxioAiIjIv to cut thalittle- pa-wagi- thrinigh the latbirtits of I'minatia. twent) -vight feet L -Iow the oreau Ityel,

JNTERO('EAXIC Ik111P CANAL. 57

as lirnpoaed'i lN M,1. i' Dmli'g'jt. prnoi ioltil4 f lit' intuit' In. 'ipIed iii g liii i' Ijt Btit tit e'iginii'ir lot. H~ki'u tit vittWirnti' niiurait-I'v ti'l rI't~titt wIli it ItI, he' xvill till Y4111

a -it'iir -A ith Ii % . du'tzt't of i'tir - . Ill- vi Ill tell %Init thatot M)t hung aS t hi' litlor nfft-i iial in kvilt f~bnre the IN-'i'n iu'~ l, filie imiragi', riiuiittl at ltijnitiia NN Ill i'naltlhi11 in ntt juiti11' viitt ii M1int' tlt'gre'i fit iert aiiit v ti' lt. lih ilmn titv elf' tiriLitiage wateritha t IIIit lf it tkv 'i tarm eif tn Io I'ldI'- t' .. oIK tno itritgr'nit iiti'rr Iiv Htiilv. Buit whenttill-niat itWA'i' iii taplw'il1, its it mu1tt IN- ti t iiig thvi tautal t v.4 int, 'teighIt fl-Ii ht'Iow'it!Asm-ae *i1itat oral mth l (i"f drnm itia Ininonit' itiis'i lii ad tll-' quianitity tit' %iat 'r

tit' tiit . Is' aill iitii n lit 1111-t) ic h v'i.n it orinig iiviii'i titit~tit d i'rnine Ii ad-*N iti'i'.

-it i-ks thiring i'iittfhtitui : iii t hooisi ii ilsltrali'e fritin flit- ititit ii'itlit tit' a canial

frnglit id fltflnl' tilie 'reat ii airn a ,l.w I if' tf i t" v ti'rs ait ow lii' t'-lwiitiig of tilt'(fil (tit. ill toitliitUte it hurt lit' tI lai vtuit I iait aill 1w' ii'% trt itit' Itt ' fiiguni'-i'nigskill. tlii' 4 iie4t in itt f' ex'nts still rvinin n'.!. aritdt nti a inhitit ; unr v-an it In, fair)n v

~jti i'ii until tilt- wotrk has flei't'i cii ititil. I lit ii't fit't uii N i i rk viatO ujivi K~dl i'itil ii~tii tit- ntiilo'r it ii t'h ia t er of' the iliftit'idt ii" itt lii' ii110 aitil it tIVI.inI t,

avi hi- 1 listt nlitilit4 iiiit't l r -ft'h lit o ratt W ir h tit i t ;tt ai l iit l iti fa

al -1 I l~W it'llIJI I u t-llt111#1' r r-1-I tIlnt ,t rtIaI It i tv l% Ii ) i ilI I tv. itu I-i iint Alut.i vet ih~ till iligte uilt. i i s tiiif liii%-ik Tu-,a t''iti ii tm

lit '-"t t all)t aid allI ta A 16. panin Il SI I t 111s' l~tt ai t ' t Iav 0.Ii::: iv- i'iv

ji n h tvi itit duit ijin ictiii na Ii ' tit aiii i, .Ia 'Ii rt liii it t hat -1in:1 f* ai"r iuiiit l.A lito i" vitli . &'it il tt aw p t. li i'lit Ii f it t lii' tit ill Id iti It , Ii t igh ilft' f-'.ia o lit''(-Ai hli t 'tift I le -I n -i un! t i Iuksit' t lie~ t1i('it r1ai it 4.1.it tii#IlISit S- 14 ih 1 t litf Ijt i og4L

-.i% .&, lilitaIi,t t i' i-a.iti ~It i 11t tulle fit vit tht Ii' it tiil 411 1 41rhi i t li' a il uilt ii

Ili alla l t h 11'r 6 itns ii' th infuil. ith ului tit lit'4 'ti~nt %I iti nal 11401 1 ti- %% to-Sit a ft W' it ii1.1tir t* i-t I uisl i'utuli-i gre- at I th' L i t IIIt i it w.' I i ti o te 'litugnI '' 1. 1t-i' Ill -fti t' I t t lit I 1 ti 14iii to ll

wau.thIt'.i Ih w t ti li i~i g111 lit ln u t i riti'r. iWit f 'arr'ot hat.lint t.i'i lti'iiititit Witltiii 'elf utn n' lit. X, ~ti fitn l nit feet liile tu'ii' di( itiW ttn it Ii's in u1 tt. t t-11 i ililtit'

flaiit-li Wiit m strfung t iii tholi'munnl Writin Whit'suti I'iitgt, hut it m il i ii vi it it aikit'flit- 1 1t'ii-1.'16-3t It\ tlll ilitt itu(it t the .1e1. RIIrnI l, 0-4t lit', rt'niuui [tI\ttwt tv.1 1rt u 4 itl'ti mn i% vu E~t nI Wr .,. i th i, iiu.iaituiamni'It to-i witrkt u(Isr i titi T I rtih dIa IIKI

%ras i'isttai Ityhat ris l'oi'by tilt- uit-ho nitot'ait-' us d~v aiti-lutl v Itgl

ttt -1ui' A .s' r' , IIl - lr 11 1it o. listif w t a. cttt-' t'titt ,mti tidlit MW h t truIt,- id11nd. v'ti'he c ito nit i' fint-'sr # 'x'e itan i l'tv va'ttiii ad ti h i ttil \% lit Itit- tgi' it' its . 4tll-ditur e'nlargt'munt\ it will alhui.1fll 1it Iie priei' fnlresiS, tid tt I ii fit ' itta iger~tiltli i ti or11r twof101 an I hal'ii' pe. 4,1rti- %u1i. hi 1 ilt, h; I hutnh atro 'ht- ;'

,1ihs uli iotanliilt it, omitttrui aWnr tit rmaciiii w'it thi drtaft are ilit' to-ittaki ili ilut iala '' sheenI'dt' 1on tudit-ll 'iaigel 0lii Shllo liiiia 'W'ltt) Ii' t" the10~Allir 40111 itu'ilthl iir tti-uIt tl, un1IIl it rig litiaz 4itt t'iiwtiti title nW'ttne te ofn

58 INTEROCEANIC 811P CANAL.

lie controlled. In a narrow eha, i-way, if the ve.em1 le moving nearer toe mie bankthan to the other, tlhe wLt.r whica flows from tie stem of the ehipto e tilt' sid neaestthe lore causes an elevation of the su face of the water on that side of the how gce'aterthan tie eccrface of fth- water on the other bow. The keel being too cl(e to tilt. lent-tone to permit of fn easy flow under it, and the water between the 1w and the near-et shore being higher than thiit on the other side, the bow of the ship is tireeal awayfrom that shore. and brings tp against tht oppotsite bank. Th mtore rapidly the shipim moving the more likely in mie to take t ' sheer." and the more violent will he thecontact with the bank. Tho dihey I-fore nmy recent visit to the ne7z Canal a ship hadbeen detained in it twenty.four hours iy getting agrln in this way. It ('an bereadily pereeii-41 that it the 'anal were cut tlrough rek such an accident would in-volve injury to the vem.l. Through the asllun ial portion of the vanal a low rate ofNteeNI would l.e ha i ile liee4ennalle to prevent the .hjkiriecs effect of the wash of thewave ramede 1ey the ship.

While I have' alwayl lcienc fcl advocate of thte great public improvements whicharc nee.eemaryto neet lie wanits o e'ecceeierce , I ice e ceeittantly ncaiutaini'd that thesegreat enterlories Kheoud le vcepleted y the lncoswt 'cononlieal methods ktnewn. and Ithink that all eecgicceer A o'uld not be je - itiel ice ad\ rising tit' pleameecutioe of tit' workinvolving %ery large expenditecresof'i oeeey tcctil fi, hal ml tislied himceself that the r.-pietlts secegiht to le attaincced (l41ce41 not le am we'll c .te'el ill a leee rctly way.

If enUtranecccileld hv iiistree'ticecs frice him elhyerse. it wouchl bce tle duty of all eil-gine-er if rhargeel with tice solution el' this lethlcian problems, tee itice-itigttt' everyucethod b y % hih % hi I rrier ite emllenec'r'e can ie' cvervoine. 1n'fortiuately, everye'xjre'eliticee lhiichcin. 1 -i e'nt teed Icy tlii- Or ancy Otler goeven'micect, cr indei visual,ae ftr its I fict#- kiemleilge, leckiceg to the transit e' %hili to'ecl o'eal tet o'eell. lmelhen'e icstrueted tit find a pra(.tival rle for a ci ae. and a 'atcal old *\. Yet cco iteii-grect e'giecver " hl will eli eet his mccicnl eef all pri..iltecire aled take fill tic' ethe n tien Oftran.esmirtieg ,hills ie \ er t he lillut h y rlillIay 4tecc fail tee INttlle' e ielcivlteel

let. Thcat till-. cettil is ict crelv practelchle.'*2e. That enctn zett% rolti celre it im Im ibde tee leeeihi a r-cllel, it i-4 eej eally j,,-s1ihle

to hecihe li z ,ccl e1 vhn a siitaile cal arnd dlraiele shii rwlct.% fe r Ieene'-lleei tI he' eit ot' a

eaecl. if it lee imc \I tih lIe.k" iei dtoer ciel.. artcir Of it e.et t it le at tide l.\vel.:i. That "eeui a "hip ral it ax ell lee' hcilt ill one-thirel Ot- ice cte-eIertc.rof tlte t ime.

nee'l1 ftr tlt, Ic ll'ttecteecl t[" lice' e1'eectehe

4th. That \% len Ie it. -hic t it' nja\t eceecc toncge etan lee' cecetel with -act'c't. at foceuror ti\xe ttecee a grvater e]e'e ielt eileet' rnilitxicy th'i ice lite dalla

l.

:'th. Tiiiet a greater iinlI'" il" ves'eie'l i per l.& ecanc l1w traic.cciert'el tll the railNay

thatl wold' e ve i '. 1 eIhe ticilligih the ccelell.4tie. That te ef 1hi dhp railway ran lee ecaily in'i-.ec.el te cnvet thIe de-

Iati ll e' (' ill llie'r'e. Wittxc t il ter'ehticci ti itc iliutlice"t-. %% hl leer it hei' til li'et all ice-Crea'. ill tl. ,i' e eef tilt-' -hilc cer cc tice ccetiber cef thien.

71h. 'tlit tilt' eet t , efit 1cllilte'ane tit' tie readlwi c aitl reelhetg ste,.'k A iil le cncee'hh-e "':all thlsthattf ti' cccii ntellAle'e Of the 'canal.

eth. That tic. 'tt cf maicitaining and opteratcngtle railt a. taken tegther will Is.le tha that oet Oeleraetiig aed maintaining ttIe eaceal.

9th. That tice ratimay -'ac lhe located and eic'e ,tcl. Owrat'd at heealitiet, it here'it ic tcit praetiable- tee vol ritet a crailel.

1ith. That it is hIeesible tee estimate with great atiraey thie veat of a ,%hilp railway.in the tilce nl-tc''l to hlele4l it, hle'aeeee' the work moelhl lee' elect "i e holly uicecec theeurfw-e eil' tit' greeml. where .e the (a-ial iee strictly a hydratelic' coctreicell. iuvolv-

ing ceentrol eet wat.r. ande the exeecittioiof work under wateore liable tete uiei egedor iterruliteel hey xte'r, thii rmueering anything like ace .e'nrcte fetituate fet thetime aed eot old its e'oeittrecetiou ace iell iel ecilviit hletiee'e 'alcitalil'e ceancot kncowwith e'ertaeitv tie acmceount of meoene'y anl ticee reeilil''., Or what the e'lcalh will !elchta-IllN IVAy x leen finally lyiishied.

I ca ready ti e'ctahleishi the ecrrecteie of thed-se t erowictionx beefeere tic e'eoctcictte,untd tee accewer acny Obje'ct ic i to thema whie'b ctay ice' uirgedel Iy eXlerte or etherc At aceytime.

M\ ewn %.etibei u Icave ciii-et l tnie that the large-st loaned e hi cile tiv t eirrieel withpeerfvt ceitI el tei'ci Or twelve cileee 1w'r lioilr on tt"elP rail weighingi hel il ctr.c'tyjIe-ecceet l-wr -"iil, the kind cis-eli tirlitt-cla railreacdi. accd till wheel hwh shil notculptee ece grect a pilert, ieicte the rails am that el the' elrivin- hli- ef a tirst -elacw

ltieeteieot eve !i ai cc re-.t ac :and that iee grade tic-dril h-e e'ne'icllite'eel fro'cic-eu teo re-'eaccten ieverl riite-e greater thane I lier ret., or M feet to the lmile'.

The alplie-atiecn eef the railway eycteece te fhe tretisierlatilon l'f ot al % elit ereci-I"- riiort' vertciily Of eet'e'eee tlhan wam given icc favor Oft the plteiieiatiu te oat'ltl inthe oveact lie'fere tice lcemigec f tt tie Grt VW'etern froent Liverjeeel tei N#-% Yrk. 1hepret-'nt icropeitioec icc sit ete cicil ol' ae untried experiment ace thai was, Ice'aeetit-dly 've'eels eit' ia tew hndred tl tc' iceirdeu cre ting traestlei t I y- railroad ti etic

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL 59

ID this E'oant ry aiie in Euiropae. Forty years ago large canal haiats were, iiiie I h,.licv\,-

aro yet. transiarttd ovetr tilt- Alleghenies ill Pc'nusylvania til the Portage Railuay,ad snrely with the wonderful achieve'nnt'ts of the liat foirty year% before im, nt ill-tlligent man will doubt that we van tratport WeipW to-day by railway as easily as mecoui transport easel boateforti yeary aou by the same tritliesl.

Six year ago, when the piestition if oplening tle 1loith of tht Mistsippi was l.aiigconsidered, the only means suipotN by the r.at mas (t* tilt- public to be ;Iaisible.wa8 a canal, s in the prveient instatice. It tAen required the utost efforts, and lnttpersistent arguilients, to indu.e the g government to try the rheap'r and qaicker nthodof solving the difficulty by jetties. And so strong arr pr,.judi'e fixed inl the midst amen, that it is not at all unlikely that if tilt, jetty plan 1a84 not beetni baked up byu v prulosition to asume all the firiati.ial, anti, I may adhd. the profesitnal rik offailure, with the- offer to do the work at lem than the otlicial estimates of its cost, thegovernment would tt-day, and probablv for ten yeari to conit, Ie d-lving ill the-awamp. of Louisiana to coiNstrict a canal at a cst" tiree' or four times greater thanthe jetties which now maintain the deleiest and safestt t'litranci( into ally harbor froinMaine to Mexico. Since the cheaper anl quicker plan has hsetnl tried n t'ointoil Ikea saice , it %onhd lit more Ike exc'hangtl' by the putli-. for a C'anIl, tlhin they wouldexchange' ftit iagiaticent ocean stetlierm if to{-dav Ithr tilt Cli pr -hipas of tilt' past.If their hnge saili were seen alongide of the smoke-pile's adt a lhite Star. a (unarl,or an Inman ntt'auner. they would aplwar as aimurl as tihte Fort St. Philip ('analscheme doe's when c-mpared with the jettie ofto-ileay. IA it lnot lnlatmhle thtt theIsthlniian c anal si'heinwt which are mw absmorbing sea much oft' timne of the howter-able ciitiittee will allpear ptiliiily alttiil aft'r the completion eit -a -4h, railWLy f

In etirllallati I Ieg to sulggest tial it is of the iillost iratlinrtano'e tei Aniwri'ait co.m-mert-e that it diall IN enahl4, v hen n erks talmin the l- hini" are Imilt, te, re eivei atlLa'tietit, al advaniagesthe.re-tfron, liut the h ua. tle ehh 'iirn'. It ns1t t Ist-that the c aitalit' 'A l1a will aelit eial thit workt wh ln miit ll he. cutitled Ito rally, .& Irolit prtltrltoiitl tea the 1iugitit nile tf their ill es t .ni the'rc.'or, it iS qiti'itstitn(Y the tirot iltilettit tiltw A m'rican loe4it.. Aiether tilt- n4e' t.woi% menl i cia,

*tottt}i(iI 551 airFo til% oiii- irter tif I lit lilltilnt.Alh uii l 'Al a iimaith. ct"ie-~h, It'. M. (Ia .,' 1-s ta tihe' 0t.1-i of tilt. tiil,t at tlilt'

tlitolith tat thilt canal. aned it wlt staeil Ih hili that e li the harhoi till the laitfics ltl lit' it't'peli"'t. the etfre't e el t lhe ttle ul iltee' l.14 . l'lt it t lle h , .ilia l tiiille,.Thin weanldl I t a '.tlt dire'ctl- cini rurv It the latN thit eetlitrel the il tAit' itwiter.Tile t'ilrt''lit io the ' it lt ti e t l Ie' 410 IVie' thV U it'i "t 1i4itfl.e'a aii the relt i tlttlillit' tilectiriit to tie r oit i f tric't'len at tlI. l otii oti' itc ii i il et viter is nit.' nig. Tilt-fict tii oft iater ii (lit tll is, ittie l-s % here I lie water ij dep'le hum 'it ht'i et is 'deal-low. At thetla itllii tie t h t. .Jeilil' I 'aer, ' lit h I hail ("t i ,,ii( It 1'\lilill, ' 'ith aview tIe itki i tee e nt'lit. tile tijal in lvefe '.iter. tel t lie' t'elii vto ." :. t'4,. ; but tit lthe lildle tf i- tar. where the v ticer wai t tI eit otilh. flt' tit' wa tout 4J t'l-0foot leam-tthe tlifle.rtenut, heiing cl l lhv t. tlt'l nall lit' tile' 'Aate.r ill ililialll Ili tleverthe bar wime thrte' hitar nilt-. in extent. The tide-s %aiile rise still higher ti 1 h.nioutlh tit' the cuial it' thvt hiirlar were iea'laled ti frout oi" it. The tid al actleitwill vertaiily lse uteri e-l'tierot ie after ilith tlt'l'iilg , lhieise ttil' liitavi etalilel lta.lt'rp fre'. ail it wil ri'a. higher. I wat htll h. I lit anttil.igr ar oneit, t ht. ol eatti-ship lint's at laanallia. a ahtrt tini agi. that le lead iliervtl toils tha're .i t'vt inheight. The elect (t' a tiele i 'ei 14 laict vtetil Ia. tai i litba'icrti tf'roi that air eltt'of 4J feet. sith as tecir at St"ie1. A tidal leak in the preaN-a d uial ,i ll t', thei'.fore. lnth,1pensahle.

There i anti' r natter to whi.h I tlb'ire tt ril tie attention ,of tht' cmimaitter.That is il rafere'ir toa the drainage oaf the 'hagrl '(i'er ase'l,(laremi'l i ith thi' arnin-age of the Suez ('anal. In the t'ioez ('anal there via a nitclruinagre toa lok after, Therewere several lakes lei-w tle isean level, through a litirtiten of which the caiial is tei-otruetel, and inlto thfs all drainage flowed naturally. But 'uc|e its not thlt case' atPanama., for there it will e ite'eteeary to build a datna. whiab will tit tltMJil,totll. t,restrain the water of on' single ri''er. aid, in additi'. all illimlaii trailluare 'eisteliiwill lie ieaeale during lls'ttiruct ul ia t'huil aaiiil v6 sc ii'urf. all ilhie 113 drl'dg.i'itimte,working in the water. That of coirw %oiuitd ih' pratiomhlh' at Awlilliviall tll ng hthat larti n ot ti alil which lie's i tit allnvial tiolta oaf tiw I'litagra. tit the t titermust le keplt oiut ell thi' nat k ctiltlg through the rtiliili ,It'tf the 1ctrhilii-

StillP IltAtLWA'.

I now llrole tol , ow It- the conllmnitt', aind will ale, ie' ltl,'a,'s'l tet et\alis te ',,ult'IAe L9l. 014' plaiin ter a othije railw y lAthih I hlav' lrpellartil.Mr. 0'utm.airi. I'tav,' yeu c'onlideredi tht qiitetifii o ttlit'he iet-nothlity' eat' taking a '-.e.t

seol qti middle age tonie that is neat eiitiely neviw antI striig, of 'a cr' large t iloege.over any railway % itlhtt straining the %~.l f Dass %oar plan e'tilorlice tle i tir% itagsafely of a veslo of atiy age aud tiat" without any linilit) to %truaiii !

ISO INTEICTe ANC .4111I1 CANAL.

Mr I %it-c. McccT n-,kvirv'dlv Aticv ~ tcecliht waiclild ittcrt inejwi in ht pa~cal Toy thi* lit..'eru rita-imsital wit cecrit irs 't ac cietivd of " ittiliadlic the, iralcie and hiir-rivaic'e f thee*

Atlahit i or Ilaulita I ict waailil Iwctallale Alf twoilx aarriee aithitel ahilite caefitt -

with J4- inthvi cafet~ * v a child in itee i tlhre arntce-aerce. the Icthieic. My plan'A.111111 tiect lIN, pract callc t it did twit iii'a clve th' aphi lit to 41c, that. III tl'te 1.4111Itc' ticsi I will ittatt. thant I bee e' badl 'cnaiterahlt'e' vme-.rioime 'it, ahije-itild ilig nelt'i,hIa ti g a'twetriivte'el fitert' 1rcci'C'lacl I c'teiele tier thte *i'ntd ,ftntet. (,,,% e'niline't. nilitwhiff t hwc'rvi't. first eight ir %ietlai in'c whis a it tile Init*'41 Statceevter ica neicl. Thetiw ere lntil. anid neomet clf thlit lemit ic-evit ti tie hti. itimfeere the - Moteiir" waa latntieheil.Fritin tte exioeerievnte' thits gainett I van ias a ith the ittnccet .-aetiileie that t~tae'i

lee'l 1W arrii'.l tiepein ther rijilau * fit lw'rf'evt maAt%. I d'e zwt. hiowvetr. -it~ncl alc-nIi thiec ecjnittcnt. 'lia Iliotn. E. .1. ft"', fvrine'rle thui'f a eiictrtetter eel' the Bltteh tiavv,said pv'riia we the leiglet-t ecitharite mnt 4hilt-kcilittig ti.ft- w tdl. ba.- pllutilje ai lct'ter Ii tIc'4 I .'ttlat *Itine's. ak Ilil 1n41 ha Wl'II rlp itilschc'd tit tlitc ctitry. Ino a hih hie in-dharetei the proijciet cit' a xhtym tati it iqrl eri fl% antIl v'artive'i . The (-ilhc itiv Icc a i Ytit ltin he-Iter:

"T fete. Lanelio Tivexn:

"I %% rita- to v'lirc'sa the hicej at tat the- lornj'- ' it icei c 4itin --hilk railio a% at risesthe tt hniie itt' lanaenne for t it, i-ti~ i aieitl W littl i. Ito ctccpa i toI retotedt tio inthe' i4-t t-cr cif , cntr Ilhi ile- [l~lsiin~r ~~e tit th- Tim I'ce' cl ti flu. , will revi -it.'itil, 4ItitiIrv andi tit 1-raite the ctt'elertion wit, Is it a elI dltceerv-Pa. I hit" e tor "11li10'

tinic't-e hetittIt iieiir t'eansmiahrati~iic a #titii li ate h# cilt cit tl ia tooii for cent e ig lilat rcc- tilt wotrth ad flit, great lee-ca td #i' iet' iicriehi. xied ltt iticgi I le t idt had icet-eire'

ti cu- c lc~ t ~itlieii,?htie jltit. te l in putting it etli'te tca'tar I1 atce I laiegeicec- Ic Itig ua vt tica archd l -l' itiezg ti-I thit it 14.1 teac Iii lan) atI highll. c-i ihieittiVctl lie a ottipi41ic 'A til & ec1il1c i ana~l.

". it. I ilh. it lice ii.4'c icicit etiticcitiliv- ii :ei aolkm cit t-lie Idcii titi Attric-a, I- ;in i'itgi-tc.. cit thel art ;Itc -t mliht u-iitzeeci ia 110 ljje-# Ia% the' -re ,tcatict i. 'iig itt-:1el licgccitt- 11t i till )iic % lit# h the-cen-t. cii and piaj' ic- I k 0 leucal' A litc he lit' hcrluigZ' tc he-cu

1i114a11 thliu i% c'111111114-a1f. I tiT--ci 111:14lc. lii- .ii ctti jIkTIi v ; i ll ti i ietiui Wit 'A .t 1;I Itit--"'clcc awil uiai itieu lilt-c itt ii It'dillii g t ilt Alucetle l %%t, c.11i nc fic1itti1 11ti11 iliac-t ale ilcgrac~citiig fit- ctccilic t lecilii Air '.htio jireiiivi ;iii I ichii the.-c Iiphlttitn eel -tc-ali toothe 41tilesI ill %i IfA'e [. lie- % 1c41 1h giltt .161etitelit it% 1ecic6 iti ' lcgiiut-eilig -kill In

" nIt li ic-c0 lot, t lItI kilAcili tha t06 1lic c tatitrN 1.1. lucit'1111 tun it iiitic a%) i, ee 1- lift -1ug ti--i- 1cc #1li 1 #,aIllca. Iv%.-'l tic iiiiictltr, ictiti Icl thl' I cuct 4Wt thll itatracili- clic14kacctit N :.i V. n1%1 C lartk 31tt1Il tilia- A itelc-'rlg hcirgce..l ft Ill It-l i 'A il-ti the-' It 1MeciXa itc' eii cia il t he- lfa cr Wenat ar af lihi tI -fcc i-.fearty v ct aleect flit-' leat ter)arc- 10.44 c-cl lin 'A irkitag t't'iitili ict iaii t% flit, reiiiga aiel hcca-eing ec etit aiteecii'c v6 ithI

1q- v c 'cc i.cctl at %% it111 tiiit.-Iliu I ali meeti'.tic'tl i t h.-t iiuctil \f *l ilrt, flit- Illaiicclict til-# les Itdirt i lics laia ciand getil t % h i iigintiit ig Iivis i-c awc.iil 1l.% iterlooiiiig irietrcel4c"1ti1i11111i4 A,11c icita ciilii', t a lee - t ".I)iit'f ted.L -c 1 a.1 callii ie' aCanol%-e a've'a ii I ll. i

Ia rt clii g hite tiltu tiiil-c c - icc'i'c c-h itict c .enil, %lhere flit' cb4liucem tac icc

Mer..Iccliii IRc tie i. I he'i' -i- ' 11 clkI ts ail'ileeut cal't Ic it--c'ste caf tisicethccl. 5cc atfvAtINc) Mar. 11-11 %iur ttmcc iult geet nittic-ir tit tat lie r v'eticccit cPtiphicierc &tilt cligitiie'trp4at'f Aitwicni ;c itill cit Englantit.

hvli'i I aceket Mi~r. Johniu Fiew hrea ve'ry' ehitti gniiucal engiier, whit wit- tii Iuyeo'dlay- flick' lt' Kiiciehi o'ft Eg lit tt It ectlury eel' A4ti.N i a % vatr) a hint lit- t hiaueght =l11c1 aaihile-recilt. % a i~ ar flie-a hitha i (een of Icanatiia, lie 'cAtche lit'ci d lit'-it answetr that cattaitiicy rc'liii ng iic' tic a i-i-tl he h)0e intle at fte- ?'etieleai Ratilway, wht'rc he' Iei'tlctmtdtiscaerry' iteatiweat-e stunielt- tiu'eet catarecIte of tlie Nile tey the icanie tiee'thl . I havenot ititct till m'tlgitier a-iee) ha'sitate' tcc atiy thst tile ))Il is ;erTAialei. W~en iri agillemer-

o ti o fei i a 'etigute it anid e'xalitint. ito th' ijile'ticcnl te ttiitta they3 wilt "et that it ill,far iticre e'icitcinieai than a canalta. 'Thlere euttict let a questions atbouit its prt:i, aii'ity.

.M. lfor' LFS.eueita ('AcltltNT-4 417% 1it. FAIcetee4 PMA~tk-.

N1I. 414- lxc'-e'pee iaitd that lie had fistene'd Ite tilie retail kit tef Mr. Eahc-e with rrc'e(t, lit"c'atiac lie kilt,% Mr. Emni to loe an engineer wilt) has dove' the nicest ntcmarkablai woerk ttile dhiy. He (M. det I.Awee'm) hud tnt iet that ueeitatimc the taiet mitEwnt eunoeaerslstuiie'l fti-c itomt ciffctilt thing*a. Whent h' fhneet scpokae (el actual rtitting tryingthe Ices lit tir Suez, ticme ief the great enrginpers then propow-41 to havie a k anal on abidge iiiiteaa of a eutting. It was ne'cemear tee dieritigtiah enutirecly betweei theplait eef a railway and the plait oal a eanal. Ile (M. de bew e) did flat pefoetetaily

INTI;HOCEANIC 8111P (CANAL.

'.lilt ti' 41iintl il t h e plan i t' a ra:ilwn, . Iseali n-i it w~ax not 10 -i l~ it a lli1. A shift

t" him by~ Mairxn sI l llint . atr tllsixtv iuidier Na4ii iii 111. at thle Oli that 11 i'. '% ax

that little . li'hi it a l in t of ' th akiix mum1 i? xt lara ii" o coitrir i'iti cou ldi beiu't

1I11tu t [i"I i Iii- ti li i o ie tihatic Wi iA &t ail r.t A hi. ftig i N am ne iie ii'li iii t i t'li

th W liii a tliii(Twle Aet in tat t ile ii linw lond hamtM ii Ihn tx i le i'i'ii*ilu imut " ill

fha. Them vut i iv ha nt lx ntcrfll l h in"Wnnw jtaIn ejd tii" Mr. ofiik ri'tark axow Tc,' awxil 34i. IlW mere tIi isi~l "i Iu in! I suit h

tert ink. obirt' The% had mad inte lit i' eflt' tol av theri xiiini't ieie0 i6el ithoat)Rtt i a ik ug t I i v a giii t%% o lit lit- ind I li ( N1.i O I e 'Wu-l w', it rervi 1 14 i 1 %i i' t dit Inu ion heml ii vwtioin hlad cirer 111 inif g ti, INtni ha i t jt Ii tiia V it vr hili' iigertha iv at -iil vt ii eli' .. elx IhtIh'8izI'iIl~nliia iil u 'Ii

In'e rrds xtot iWir jituil rinak the tlxit %eml t eti ng. li'iii' il f li t ixl he maid that tile

w iy t a.1rij it ru %titer. thaitiili e~r 'to Iii = xi~ in'. elir Suez h'x iluull l iii t e HOh

tI er 'u iet- the- it k liswi te S O iitselfMr :ad NNhreaul nnA ge u,i h aii ck ;lilit! rld age d: but d it- ma id&j o til' thiuliijil ltil'3', liflr~' ia %Pw huh

thtih ue-vost tor lIiuo h in i'ei non gt r taetlyie'lul g &"%l no't WV. "t trk wuit'ofi thvirj'ei % a uti~ li rhl'tlu'e'. h at the Hitltt uixalii hit t 10a rear 11.1r lilt~

Im eli alonriv interrtio n iIiilu~ t e tnie uid'. iltili'.u lip tnijniii.dp ~~an(A r. tiih tuui llni xltri ct'Ith il lk 0 l ti 'illii am in i We S u .( l':ndx tq tii p hai e iit'r't

I e t' % tnered ti rA li it't to ur ;it ilt llm t ill th complimeintarjry'ti.a n lii Nlil hio

higitte'iii- tlil fo r tilt(' hee 111141 d axelfirx' ca t tll' inspetingi x lt'e gre'L(allt " wh'ihher loadm" no a l'hgetriit Suhi' Iti-ittili I ntird it P Ir an iv oliiy iir'riu foi ihh'gt

Mr. Siglethon plinowd'ii'l taks of Oie t'rhte xvinsiltir to rA& 6 uuili Iix pro-~rijw sted hi ch i mi ioii %e'\ jmut't d I He Awiixli Iive tht lilt- tha k 4)11 t' li'th.. lilixtoolo u temuitlr noi l W. li pplirt 11 ltli h i xr d o- act iii ex i'teil in tou r .he ' moiu

M'lr. Aplei i t he iiuti r. a l li hVt IM 1 JI . ilimly hint iit' u iii iihel illiidl''il. ita uuithi re al , *,P lu sotit' i'' he ball liven tihe t t't t he iii li i' g ix t ht-Sll lie t ll l llliha'.flip' usrx a.N tu'itv On1 10'-~ lvtn Ward auuli'ihoal t'iiplitly 'l'hii" 1101Oii tltithliii.' atat the hrev r m n ii ot lumii qtih' inn ofit h'timix lik n ht I n ii ix- att ii

t do ipilt ie i l ins '.xn llit'it u i'i'.v hat lle go% i rtlin t or~ih pepl, andi' lii h a ppy tat

hstirn st' -tvaptitiir whethler am interprete'rhul ii ral ir Vtit- ailinthi it p uli

Mr t fiil l ok t te rtnt ed ii x tiiit I ii' ramte w-ii n t 4"i ii' ni''t'. i' ll %t ingoi u i' hit lio'ut** he uaaitu Ihi li ustit v~litil fhin' Thi il e iiii tlii irdi' ii-l to one ft uilu ta ititm

lx'4 run11 iseti t ohe tht at i r li e It fill- r itiri.i *o n i 101 t' t'fn th i' lx i l y (lix i l tIntop tiaet trlo.u etp iaprmto Wsntn arwhmn014 v

62 INTE1?OCEANIC SHIlP (CANAL

1ii..1

'4 114444111i4 11'i1* 1% 4441 %'4 e ritit 4t14154'4'41m 4 rI 45 A-vt4 ;I' It41. Favl lo'-4.55544 -fill 11 1 oiltoI 4tt'll x sI. I I If 54 14.5445 ;smilt each4I f1.11I I I1 tit# t"1'v44i4 mt51i'Iu

sslit inti i''si fii til I' - tati. tilt-' isin ilts14 i mlit Iov 55.it'.-. hlit- *tit irt' int' frt i i. h itl It, do~n1bled. it f tivi

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64 INTEROCEANIC SHIP[ CANAL.

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ISTEROCEANIC SIP CANAL. 65

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dr-atilic jai k- thru lift plattial Ill. alid 111) until fill- 1,41go Off' fill- cai-4111 Ilp-lit -;I r, : I 114 V % I , n a I I -I P I k I I I a I-, t I I v I I a 1-1 A-& 1 n I. i I -I I t a k I - ;I I I I I I I - n ati-I olit lot' I Ill- vaim-

1-4111 . .11 hd. i t I it - l I I _ I it I I I I I I , I 1 a I I t 14 - A 'a I r I liv hip. I I I , ti I In I I -I I a n a 1*111111 11 % I, r

thl' platf-11111 14, M-ak,, immi 6q jw4ho I ak-m and a iqniapm Trb. pn"wK WhvnI ma, th'.1f. .1 1111lithot lit hip, m, rv olit high ;11111 fir oit vaIN-Will.. "hlch lilt-ki-11 IlLPhuge- float hag I 1 .1) 11 11 I'll' Irt In:.: .1 -);Ip. Thr m ell. In a I;tlgt, 4 fullp-1-tedm ith t hi -RN vel TI la It If-, I If I I r-'r I m It It 71H It I lit of A I 1 111.1 at HIP I i I itc had I kt-4-11taki-11 wit.

Mr. Clrvii 1:. lla W ;I %P-W I i"-mg d". ";I%, , it% "I'lght lit illy- 4-1.1 ti-I at film-%.1101 at ldhrr ti""n thy Im I, Vnd- I"SnIq"Whil !

'Mr. 1: %1-. vn -if : t1pi, I, al"a). a ivmhqlr it, I'vild till "h.l. lll t Ill iklif, n;l ',[till then in alpoh", am! alk. so I" Ml he

Mr. lit )ml flKallollta title ip"I'ti-t littig, balitigaling, oll till- %%;I% I.- m:thollt '111.1lort lit tilt cvI;fvI.

Mr. Elio-. I do I, it Thillk W. cIq haiv quitV that #,\Ill lilt ( 411111,11olk A %va-thatk, It() 11ppI;lI n hatvN4.1 at tilt I I lite 1.

.NI I . lit'll I llav braid ( AplaIll, A tll.*It.NI I . C. 0% 4. 1 11,1,111 t la I It., n #-I LJO I #--.t , It otic t I lilt- ,it I lit I fill, and I I it not hor

4111 tilt, tultillit"NI r. E kl-. N't-S. -11. lit a _,I, at d. giv.-. Ill I ro-aig tilt tilt. -votia in It, at, meathei

I 11" IMP " hWA ""W OW Ilut lot' mati I Ili-gh villitigh tit ill I % r it lwrmw and Part undet

W I Wc Wilm- a UP"t lind -Tmippla I "a, 1:111i an a3 thili 111"n thr %hip, I vistra Atam it hrr in't a ill t he hn -- I n lit'l-I N'. I It lit I to. :11 ztltl t n lit d I N ,it I Inierged. atill the bon- ftild

stern lit- h:_-h lit till- :lit-. Thrij. a tilt- -16p pa,-W-4 Aivi the- vtw-t lit that IAIINV, Ihv

Ktern n fluid ) i -4 - )li:,' 110-1 -t ill. n 11 OV I Ili- lift%% n 4,11141 I'l tingf. don it%% ard'. t Ill tough file-trough and I 11 h it five Ilk little file- 11P\f n ;I% v that fill oill- 1 1111141 slawl till till- th-rk atthat Pull of thl- -hill. At I he livxt ill'talit tilt. Ili)%% n 4111111 lot- uldifted high on thv *-v-111141 -,% wt I., n I.-th, I ilf, tvl'll n .1,11d nik nhipit out lit* idil till\% it Ili tit.- trwigh tot' tilt-Nva. It I, nia 1"mmlde- to %liaiii a %t-t-1 thim morrPly "" it %1611 rulinny. If MY- In-Our at all in IK fin vulp"i in " h" h 4" W IMINt VUWY 610. W IIUglit tit loviiii tilt, valill ttw lt' 111111VI hVI. -he, 6 , file- -.1 1 IT 111.1 tit' the- varth throill"I"suther viitirr b-ngth, Ili rail-%a% III,. pic-mi- if t1w Isla,, ra:i oid JAP tratiI-4-rred tot tilt,val-111 thloligh lip- 1,4!k .11111 tit, tivn Whvi, me. lintit file- lort-.4mv (if' Pit, It nip-I titthat m1w h i- 1111pil.1-01 evil olliltar falka , mv Atilt ?is lit- aftaill oftlit. roast-41-Atg" I"g am a, .

M r. "I I \ I . I I , 1 1, till I'- ;411 I I -it -. I I I I %N it it I to - 1, 1 111 41? 1. 114 - t 1 .1 1 tl ir it ra I

m a, , if thr I lark ncre "no "mb wivmg and 16 % I"Imlq Q q'I"ll Ualmidtof rart % ilig .1, full, It a- thv % #*, t 1. .11141 lit, I otitalll) 11-4-11 'aft-A %% [tit till Ilion.Whilit, to a"Or"t I ban tlw lot, i"m in n-v !

\If. E ti-. Nil. ir; t1wri: w m- rva-sin n hy it cciald ipit -_(I nicirv -atol - It I,- pnw,-i I It - t t I vi inst ru I, t 1 :4 r; I I I 1 4 ;t r, 6 if ium"v r. that I an tnusym n hWW- a I MWO id grwlka a") M y It I, Ini h elk piW " alK awl j"" U-mlel wa lived 111 linip aim larady-I, thiuk at"! 41 rolig a- that -,1' .1 M p. If gv"thw"V 14 thv "O"Mi"M m 01 g" M 101 MI.AMI 64, up thi, VO, iijar I ta III Wn III= a car own Wr rail, n ith % u beels tilitterit. n Tub varri, , 'N l toll ill % ill-] Ili ll n ith il(m onk 41m.-Illial 11-1 In, all ful-11 thick,( 'allal 1141.1ts I% vighin .' 114-al ly 1 4111) tilnn n ill? t lit-it' I av 4 arrie'l in it fill therailma,- frimi thc P(stimiat , au-tATWIl in f!". I anul :01 NO ;it"?% I. thi, I I% vI Ill thi.,1% a . If 61111, '1011.1 lail. vkri.. da - -it fell vach .ple of' the 1*6ur that arv tilt%% there, itA plain finit %,at I I= I= thp I ar to iwomm M o. hnw% am uhh% If rombi thriivarr flvajl -111) Jim% Ill' matPr. 'I'llP I al-Ifil thl-rt, t., olik I'm? to-vt lolig. 'tit thf-ri, i.nothing 14) Ill'I'lvilt it- livaig 111;1114- Ili') tuet Iong. It nwild thru ctirr toill, litite" an

11111ch. ill, 3.. oll tou,, n hil-li I, a Iwa% a- Oil- a\vrag-4. tot mtvattibill-. The r;lil% ay

Irark thim- w oljl 'tilfl It-vt limig. hni Mat I. hnig riomgh t" pinnu that " inwht Im '101or .014, 11111t,4 ifil 4*4111111 Ill- Illad.- p] ofi fit tilt'.

Mr. TO %lop U ng on nip rim mimbl. V strunp, and W Imbir to ani.dria than Ili,- I ar if vlf. fvvcaii w- huilt -tiouger !

31r. Klin fif iquirm- it ni"ild 1w. An it ii"ild wit Iour,-t otit at lilt- %telvs ter Im-nd orglv Afia% in an) 1113untIt" It )).I, bvi-ii proopo"A fee Parr hitip,, allitat in vatw"kti'. filli-11

itil watvr, 114-1 jut-P I I %h I 1- 11111 tryingg Pnimgh in have tit(- .idt. %tililmort takeuawan Thp unfer I IvIlligh 111111('41 halt* am 11111ch 11% the You u(IIJI11 thellonly lic increa sing fill. difficull -ill favi, vivating :I rvall tlithvnlt to int-vt all int-jlgiljar #mv, jir it 11111,4t 6- plain that if ,if add ,,# Inuch luort. weight to I he Imr.

lit-11 to he carrie(j, pill nut-4t inake i io3thng me much mtrionger ittid henvii-r. If yourcakmion liould %priug :I li-ah and ]I I tht, mater sill lint, % our Anti vi mi:d IW muchwomp SAW if pnipOy milliported fill Idocks. Ilemide., all thi)4, you -%ollhl hillill anintint-n-w boad tot' water V Itllollt pa%.

Mr. SIN(OXTON. If then- WOM an -V MM-11 dallgi-ir tot t1le i4ideli of a 141lip litliging, orIveing thinistirt-il by land truntler, could not a very great stip1wt bv iliffu*"l along thealf x shlesol & jn ilie gallerieti, (if the cradle f

lyl. Emm. Certainly. The cradle is d(vigued to bave a gallfory above the w& er of

INryizzm.EANIC SIIIP CANAL. 6 7

t f i ll, I .114 I (all III iet' %i ti r' t i 't ii tiito'i'i. t Ii ii 11114 :14 itltilit l it - tin t-l i

M r. (44,Z .her I 4 4.. ilt%%ii %%t VIial ,1iii 1t.ip tit tt t i''k It ford' 'itto '4 a1 t. a it t itri ivii..'4114

Nit' Iti ,ileiflt 14 -114. %vg ttt h:- i a tltf, Itl

M ri' . Ta o ttitl t''0'iit 1'tl itt' .. 1111.u I .it.' itiiI.l r I i ii ", t eit t' il it.' ia i t" -tll Allt~

rhlll lm tit lietl' are. ai ii Iin~'% all' 4 I tt;ld1ttiii '0 i' 1 411.1c 1441 i~ti" lit llt'4'i1i4iIt14

4.. 1l44i'4 141 t4isn".t ( -. m a l1]tf-r r .1 N v f. ItlI li'. 1;lI (i 1 1: .N%11- llg t4 1

1'111111%% a4 lit% lIli '111 t1141 1 1 t t lt- 1411% mi I44414 144" 4..4 l14. l 14 till[ %I'' til- t4" I 41

pai'.go alN d 6't 1. 114 'lti 111 4.4 b liiNfil p'l.t 114 41. tIm g'iiii '01v u al 1~ au i f ee 4le 4.1;'t Io.1tmit gek Nfi *111 1, he tt'*c t t it I a-IIil11 4 1 l l ltIl'1 qi111 .It ilttlra. 1 . 11. 1it tv-. tt The r.14111 % Itii a raj1ilia d % lt '4'i arlit l tittlhii 11111.ti lt 1141' e tt

o 4 u t h M ottll- f the ;Il line. wii jitir in Ito v ltiilgit' flittu~. rm%* Rill mli t 'i't4 % rail-nati'lsI t f lt %%rtht-te iitw svdat illn f o tilurp'. it ill 1e~e1. - e :11a mli4Iil i lltil lli

fiX IN'1iT1I'IANiI C'ii'tANAL.

NI22 I.1 . 'l% I tl 2i22. II I I.222.22.2 1 'i 1' ti ' 1 222.''. 112 :21I-I t: 22. i 21 .* - i- i. I I\% I I k

I~to tt I1 I2 I . 22.kill 2 I 21. I 2 - I . . I22' I :22.II ' II i't.'1 4 - -I Il. I t "j 11 I II t I22 i12 i I I; I I tt I

I I 121 .1 s III. ;11 ' 1 1, fil- vI it2 . 1 1 2' , 1 12' . 11 i 1 1Io* 1 : 2122); I i' .211i.I' -.I I ' i222 I tI .'I I4i .2. i. .l' %%21'I 22I2I 2.I I .. I tII t.I I1.11i l l- :2 .. 22 l2,l'. I 1112112 II \\22 22 2 :. I. % 1tt l t ll..

* Ill I211. .T o l: 1 1% 1 12- 1 1 111 1i 2 1. k I I' I 1 112211 I 21 2 222. 1 210i I 2.11 - IIII I I I 1:2 221 $I tt-It

)It 'I'I 2 2.I. I u' :2222 1i.. ki21 2'..l it %1.-. I 1 1 , 2: I .'i .. Ill %k221 I.I t- l22't lii'.iw' v pii' 2' i I I , ilI'22.2 h ~i 22 I lillgk

t21 it lit . 1 2 II l2'ilt .it '.1-k I i t il 1. t i t, 122Z2'2 Io l i.. :13 11i'. I't 1111 1 12 112 i h i' at222:2112 . 1 22 '.'a .222 1 1 n '; 1 2.1 '22 it '.2Ii'. 2r L .1i i t i 22'ill2 1 a l i lil- 2 'Ill i1 11't, I I

~I I %I2I I I .I; t 22.h 12 1 1 , \ I I I \\th, I i. It 12I 2' 21. I2-2 i '2II le- t %% ni lt it22lw2 -I I1 %t -dI2 I I I. It ' i.t i t .211 '1 i2l111i op(11 -122 -12l'il 22 lliv ti'2 I'\t ,:2I22222 i t . tilif- lit'i l . 1114

w 11. 1 t I I I2 2222 ; I .1 . '1122' o I li2 v 2 2 1222 12' Il ;It i'lir I222 122222I 11 114'. 12212 1222 I 42 212.l 2222222llIili

-It IIt. f 42' 1 - t 2'1 21 11,1 1 '222 Ili I itt 1 11111 121 111.' a 122 i 1 41122211\ 1 222211 -1.1 i '11911122 2222'.'\ t

it . 112 I 2I I I I. L'2 121ti .11 l 1 1 i:I Iti,. t i t I t' 22221-- i I 1' I I11'.'2 lt i t li' T vi 12 lol'T I 1 .1 w llI I f t I-I *, -:22 1 1.2'2 21 2 11 1 I4 fII I. 12. I.'..l i' 1 '1 1 at I I 'I2I I iii' 1 11 1.- I-\ t ' '.t4tl l 1 a2

11..a I2I I IIa' I a, I \ 1 .1 1111.. l..2o lt i .1 21ll-' 2:2222 Ill li fv v r,122' Ir Ii'' 2 l.1 It\ 12222 122212' Iit' 410'2'22

M at: li1' ll 111 '.2r 12. :21 I '22g22I'lll g- ;Ii'2'fi'-l' 21222'' if22 I% ' 2j*i-ij -. 22 .1121 212222 11)'ilil 21t 1 (-l ''v,2222 .11 I 1.22 I i '. 122211 ilI'll.t 2 111 11 , 1 11222r- .~ ''22 i'122 ~ 111 22 221 22'.ti

r2: .22222. 2'It ' t'2 12'. ofIttgirj I o 112 12 . % Iat I,2I2lit, 2422' pill111. 111. tI1i'. li 11 22 4.' \ti.'. 1 22' 1 22 ' 2. II III I I IIII ' :1 22' I 'I't, '[ 1 1 211 2 1' X, I IIIII;It iIII Ikit' I. 1222 t I I o i (I

.iI 2221' .. 21 1: 222 I2 122 \\ I:lt I\ IIII IIIIi . l it 1t2:ti'ltit :' I I I o-11 ..':2 I'Irlit.' t'i 1'. II It t 112211' I

'122 1 122) I it 22221 [1 4,;t 12.21 t I.. ', i 6 I't.414 1 lock.' 2i22 li'221 i2'14.f rIh r i \:\1I It I (2 Ill\-.. N ~. . 1 %kI.Itt It Il i 2 I2 i t- -1'tti 22 i' I i-11.2 1 1 il .'I i' olit~. 2'12 .at .I' 2122222222\Ni t *, % . A 4-;t 1 '.2 1221 $1 Ill 1. Iii' .it ai.i N1.2 I .1: 212 221.12 pr p ii I''.. 22".22222.'. lw 2,1.' I.' 2'1'

V.12212 1. j..r il'2 222lt l~t.tt i i 1- 111 :1 u-44 \ihI s t No,'222.'12I mild 1122' \222. III' witch 22'2.2 iI II IIIIII Ii' :2 214 1.1t221211I.I.'I i Iti 222 Ili 11 iiin' it,2' 4-22 1 1.112 I w t.2' lit'"221' -vl 2 222 12122 II \t 4.1itM ltmtt'.

'. I 2 I itti 22. \III. .' 2222 t 4-1111' .21 l i' i it--- 21 '..jiv 414 Iv '.2w i1 vI tti 22 I2V2ts ' let 222' 'I y 21222c t'2,-all 211 1 \\ hat.'. if l 11. 1 i'p tti 2211112 ott it 2'1222221i'.l N itr "it w t-il l 2222o '22221 2) '122 tile

'o. ,1611i141.2 lit' 12i.ll,1 211. Ii,. N i % hi ch i t '' \%o' tIll2221 co 'jiiill . tjl, 1Jr't t' 2.i -l~ 222it II.. 122 .2':2 tl. 'l .". , oljiv.'i, l i1 41 r h lr'l'1 it k llt

Mi'. li 1otN' -i 111.11. 1.222 Il 1toit t V . lt. .Iitt' 122122.1 ] dii22g2' ,2222 \ 2'2 ill 11122.'

Nit , 1 :o It I li IIIit % 2a I22. i'f-I '1t,'Ii . T I of'ITlol 22 'If t i 1i ~ 212 l it,'41 I I It ' ii iat. -1211 It i ve22222 I I2 I it I 12 '1 2 211 1.22 22 III l 1 1221 2 i t. 4i.1 l 2 1'4 .12i.1k-.,'. but 411 (I 1 212 Ifo IIIl itla it.I ItI' Itt.'' . l l- rio2 -12 t. 'It tI II iii li . I i v 111 ,1 2222 I ' II 1 -:1 2l2t .11 21 1 t 1 i l 21'. ' 2)'4 1 iltIt Ill ti ll o M it. 122 1 121'f it11 111i 1 lilt-n' 411 122tM11, h it,. nio I 11(2. 1 2' f 1~,'lta 'Ia

I .2222p 1122' I it It' 1 112 221122 lt li11 41-21wii 12 ilt1222'libalii t vI 12t fot li12t- t't1ol ov 1 )vk2 O li l ot

I . I22 , Al 211 2.I I121 4 11 Il2M i a t ; ill'22g1 hi l )I t't, 11221- fig tIvl f t't tita t I.2.11 .1'h I l it-k you

INTEROCEASIC SHIP CANAL. 69

WIN' WHV4 Tit" IN hvt That thin JiP of towly) '"y W W 10 All Q' Ill- Ait"rp,and m hill. tilp 1,01 1, in largc (ijilugh 14) 1:11.144. N v-nvIn lillm , it 111.1 Illit In.largo un0iigh it) arviinoninlato III-, (hill.-Ind, -)I III TlIv calialI I I I i It t (I -- I III It I I - % p'.4-IN t I ) n -n I A I It" it 1 (.1,11 -1111 NA :11 111111 it )'I -I I) I it - .11 In rg' I . a, I 'I )III I I I I.I., f.

('4111111 llossihl IIvpd : kil t it in 41111 iI*vlY I'm 'url 11 Illim . :111d i-4 :111n."t m llllll flill IIf li'v, I

I )I. I i I. ve. 1111 - 11111111 h of till, N I a. Is I I i %I q. m .1, hilln ll 1-41 IIN jvl t ir- fill- I III* 111111111-v of'

gri -I I ino 41%vr tilt, llilfilidt . I Ilitiuld I hink that A. wimid lip a him, in W all to ion al,:if;.. 1:-41 inintp tit aNninno that I hirgi, x v,_*I, In I hriwgll tilt, bIrl'. if :I at

Ihv Isthinus. m-ould lip dMahwd at b ii i)iw hwii :it -.I, h hwh.Mr. I). wityu. wjuo m (,,,III hp t I,,. proit:iiih. 4 ,It tit, a 'hill laiimn%I r. E % I in. It, (.41st m 1111111 41"111-1111 I'll I III- hlv:It it'll .11111 1 he 11111-'t it'll ilf 11:11 nn ,. A

11.1 nallia. Ill) ill ill Ill , It rail m :1 v t-I)IIIII III, I'llill ill, Irv 11 1 I 11:111 :111 m iv I I - v I 'I .. I :I in

inviincd 14) lI(.Iiv\ I. thin, 6it t1u. num"i I h-ni it in I k,-i navi(im 1wi t )f thp III hiwiq.alilt till, I-Ilad m (nild not lip 11111I.C. than lort -liv 111ill-, 11:11-1111V illiliVIA 11-llitill I m ollill ill\ ill\ v :1 411-:11 (it, vilst. A t T rIllin lit vin-v till, harlaill.111-10),lbly m (IlIld lip li-I., 111:111 -,It Pall:1111:1. A t (irryllim ll it m Ill 111-4111;11-ly vil't to

gpt lint* _rO()d hal-11111. Ihall it "\411116 tit gvt 11111. :11 vni'll vild fit' Ibc 1,41104 :11I Ili) dollht a hill r.lilma\ i, Ill-avill-:111h. lilrijugh C1111-i'll1i. Thal Avollid,11,1\" ille 1111"1 '411114-11, hal-11111, ill tilt- m orld at iln T hp\ m (IIIIII 1141-41 Ill) illi-I I v ) v I - I I I I - I I I . . I lilt t I I . I t m I [lilt. i it 'I ];I I -v lill"'I'lirv. Illa 10 ' 1111 fl 11' 1 lit' It pVI 141 111.1 t

llin't 110, plit"Ill lit I'l 4-11 t Iiii-c. T hin 1,111111. m 4111111 lip 1 .11 I ll llf :I, 14.11g an at T I-1k Ila lit vilve,

and Ihv b"alil, in wild Iii lip \Pry lowlthy ind 011. lallit"Ill nillull I..", Till. _-I;ldvsand har"Jol, ill 111,1111111-a-k :Ivv :it'll %vr

M r. i-I 1.4)\. A I m )I'll lik;t\illllllll m 1111141 w t I! \, I lip 1-ti-t lit' thc railm :l

Mr. Eko.. TlInt millild dvinild till Ow hic;I16-11. liallnir'. &( . fifty

Inillitill thillal-, it 1%illailln. illvIlillill'-, hal-Illir" 'I Ill- I -It it P :111:1111:1 Ini- Illill, m-ollill

In- njurh pidianct-d tiver iinic 11111ti, parls Ilf lilt, ll till- inlint'llst, 1,;lintall 1111i.e.Mr. hill millild In, till. I Ill' little- liccon';lry til cinliph-to

I lip limit

Nil-, Wilh t Ili, nwtw -itlqd&d a, list an "wih* Ow rad" w I w0d Iw Iml illolivratii)II, millilint dillivilli . ill hillr v;1VI fit)III thl- lillic i(N man1114111CCII.

What ky""rohnatv tit* tilt, ctsIi lit' ni:iino nani-e(if thviailma aftorit is filliNhed-tho m(Ill'ing, nild 411, it !

Mr. I think lilt- rallmn r(IIIIII lit- m(n-lwd, pitill:11111y. 1,411. W pil i, ;I. 1 1' 1!.4reviiiiii . th-dinary railm-a , aw mi)t1wd at :11, Ill W, Ppr cliltilill, Thin \\1111111 Itooperated for less. ln-vall't. th- Illailitlilalic" millild Ill. Iv,, than tll;It ot, 411.dill:lr rnil-Wa i. The m-ork moillil ))I- lilorp u(.11111:1vt : thprv Ili- lint ()III' tit hvvpUP, and m-lnII(I 114. 111111t ill the 11111%t nillinlailli:11 111:111111-t-, :11141 .111 lilt- fl-vightWfluld 114. hantilvil. ill Inass ll 'traln pomor.

\ I r. SlNt;lx.1-A lN'. I la %-I- on (.\ or nuldc :Ili v'I i Inal v lif t lip #-lint In'r tilil I , Ill I ra IINInn ta-

t bill

Mr. E.%i)s. That m-olild vary arcilliling tit till- allilillut lit' tniflic.M r. As'llilling that till' traflic m-1111111 fit ).1111n.111111 tilliN In't all-

M r. It i ; ruadily tilld. it' (Ill assillile that llic m-Inhill"r IA111,11,11I Moilld lifit

exeNql 10 1wr iial., ulWi unuhl In, a \vry larpr I"mmugv.Mr. Fkv Illilli(in, (if tnn% im thp I"tilliat'.11 lillitnilli of 11-:111b.Mr. 10111 At st, lipr tiui flipi-v minAl Ile ;I rpliattv tW filkIFIHM"k and if Al Pq I-mit.

werv rviiiiinid for oppratim-, v\jlvnv4. it monlil gi\v 11, per ci-io. till Ihv callit:11 ill.vest 1,41.

Mr. IIII-TCUINI. SIppop "n n"Wit Iq mhirli tlw IMP intin maN thu"n "W IONrads; and stiqlInA. In, P yott any 111,111 It\. which Inl villifil 1-t-Illave it ,

.%It'. EADS. Yvs. sir: inviv umild In, nQu"% 1W up"inu it Imil Ion !lit- tv;wk. it' suchaccident Ilo-'sibliv.

Mr. Hu-rcm-%-,. It vo-h! lic thine

Mr, E.All.S. Most tyrtninly . If it uvre InInnilth. that ali accidplit lit, Ihv I.Jwl '111,11141MICur, hit, (it\ ing, it serioas tilistrzictisin in tilt- rtiad. it inig-lo liv clivalni- ill gvl the Ili))

oil' the track nlti)gvthvr. and takp hvr rmUn awl ninviiiiii-to imn mid hi Or h"ll re-niain. rather than vim,(iiinier thl- dl'jjj - 11PPO'14Nar tO 1111t 114'1' lial'ij, It' nill' x.-VIV 11;1(11,v

wri-clivil it inight lip Opy1wr ill Illy a track altingnidi- tit' tilt- nutin Inick tvinininivily.

pasm the idhpr vemsib nnimid the wnwk that moy. w"I wit inlprr"ld tMir and mull)invoille. 0111111PI Ion", it is sahl. hurtled up a train "risrs (it, tit( ivinnyt\atia itaii.rnad Inwantiv hv WINved hp vonhl p4 A id' ill(, tobstrulction clivalter ihat \%II.Ythall It,\. Atettingr tilt, cars Ilark 4111 lilt- trat'k. Illit al thc 1.11tv i.f telt (11' 11mvivondbm an Imum and with thv ph"m am I havP niattire(I thiiii, it is shul IH111:11Sible togot a Alkip lot)* tilt- track. Yon lint\, Illevt with lilt avvidl-lit, Ill-vak it 111:1111 it,[- it, \%hvvlmTand it \% (mild (ptickly bring the ship to rpmL ']'III- road, Kit' villirm., Wollill hp pro% idull.With voli'll apilliallvem lit, tirdinUry railroads ha\v For lifting heavy mvigirlilm. JavkmwuuM hP lint undpr her. awl a Millvr nf tWP N"M be wade it) lift till- ship.

70 INTEiROCEANIC -SHIP (CANAL.

IiItik tI' it,11at iiaitiitt1a td1 a1 illp rail k% t t gt'tati1% livigittettt't Iy It-e fact t tile- a!-

Iti tt I ItII \~l1 T I I Iti Ik 1t a, ii ll tta't. A halt t I'. 1 itl a ti l jl a 11 ical I t iling thu.esr u x' t 11111 1 "1i' viaiit ftta aiit tIl ait. att iin' tIll n i d tg tt iti ll ictill- ' %% ith'

av rt it ttrf'ti v 'att t ilw ' I tt aa t ttt . ailt i t 1 ;1 t 'tt't ,et Ittitt\ l I vt Itdti rge tl

ruc. ?'iitt ttlaa'aj 'f 111 t* 1a si tttcttt .1%' ttittr(t i' r 1'1t (at it' he c r tit c' ~ IaII tl

Ml aIgh tt 1hf cl'r .'t - 1itht till 'tl TlItrll$.1, aa Itattat'r lttttt toIt' ti ti t'd fori

wat.r like 11f , 'it hi ',t I Iv 'it - I whale.& . II 1 Iti 'i -ta tItrI Itx f I i ha I .hi 4-411 iid l

N tt1 r 11 r it I t I tgltt I h -II- i lt (1tirt 111t iti t ltce i I v ti inc c l , r I I t I \,1Nc It t t Itsipotflt' .(1 ttI:IteiI tI* icl g iV tittt two.- iiattt t gt't poihP tit* iii i t ijg t a i'k I at othIlel waer Ccatl fiqutltiiilt141 \ti 1wa tat~tnt oty a ~vcrt amt t atib-firge ttla

INTEROC'EANI(' SHIP1 (ANAL.

Mr. (11M.Fil. 1, 11 1011 11 Inillf-il Par Olip-WhIl"a lhnt it On"III 1W MI W"141"Ordthat If it rv4- "n the W abite. %I ;4,in atiNthing ntid,-t :i, It I ;11, Illatf-11 11).111111ort it . I-III ire %% vight

Mr. Gin iDNN IN. ',*I). -ir.Mr. The... 110 Sit.Mr. 4;fm)I)NvIx. No. it-: fllv alua;- We hdW. ":0.. k AIQI I, al"aY& "Iqmlllvd

nnt inil hy her hool Inn lq IdWv "ny,,M r. I Ila N I. 8"t-11 (If ',III- N III, t,. I lilt N I. st-1-11 I lit-Ill,

-Ifter Ila% ing, hvvn plank-4-41 and :Ill/, 41 alld llrv, vft, Aillilling, fill flivir kvrl . I .:Ip-

Inm4l thut thPtl",ow3 14ip n"stmobitt u-m limi W mtnflil wit (nd mliptirl livr, .1f,hln :Ils(j ]let- vin-rilm, and lllallllillvr .

Mr. Gti1jim 1%. -k % v-v] ilf sinall .41/#.. -;I till 1114no. fliall 97, 1.1 1411, tvvt ill 14-11g01,olild he N vr rvallil 1-firrivil in .1 tlr 1.1-allic.

Mr. CIIxI;I:u. 1 "evil xvsvl, -21-, alld '2711 fel-I Inn,-, Aalliling ()It thi-ir keelm.M r, (,(m I)NN IN*. That i, :11111111 1 he hillit '11, Till- 'i/e. Sol] ivt i nw., shills art. hillin-hed

Ill (*14-%4-1111111 they an Mays la"Mml Nidpuay wi niT"nut ofiltvimmur-I~ iW the I! % IT. In tlwm- raws th, 1,1=4 are Idwid a litilp tqlgvvvim- ini tin, incline.Ashijihaviugra ,ltnll tiInherf6ra ki-i-Land Coma- oil- ti\v (lit till) tell' ket-IS4111S. gi\es 111.1.a 4-t-1-toill des-'I've lif liffill"s, Inn III.I. frallit. i,- )lilt to iiltirllultvl u ith that

ts to) gi\ I, till- \\ hill(. st rin-t in-v act nal When I hili tahvs the ground,III- villn.l. Ilog".. .'r )nllgc : that i, the 1116vi..'al vxIii-rivin.l.,

Mr ClIN4.1 It. I tinlught that all, hilt, if uh;iD-Nvr izv. uhit-It had her kr .l prop-vrl 11111 mn-ti d %\ 4illid 'll'taill her ell I irt. u vigli I, " i 111 .111 Ill-] Illavilitiery .1 ild all I, I't dthut rimid IW P"I in. " ithmn 11 jmllsilsilit if 1,111-Aing.

.Nil-. GIII)D\\I.N. "No dontilt he u.,uhi if AIJA in an vu"My pvqwwl&Var Ininithiri;siw ctnini carry iwr to\% it weight.

.Air. C, \iru. 1fa cradle 4-milld Ill- Infilt (i -,I iff is zint tit icld to till- irregidurities oftill- railroiad. u hat ljh , ical I-vastwil i, 111.11 it rl-Illd Inot Ile 111011 stiti 4.114111"'ll torarr ;I shill u ith 1141 Araill that wiluld Inig it in- lm-1141 it. if the ki-el \1 "Ifflicielit toJlppnrt tit" Ship and cargo) ?

Air. (limit I VIN. TV 1",Iqilw is IM"NI lonli"Idithms tlwt arvi" WmAgloqLaud thust.nutiolhi"u, urr Ilivne : .% %hip W"i Iw roqquixint n"iflandy ilininglinut by iont idv press-IID'. and 4.1in't-1111viltl\ i. .,ol jlrfl id'-d u illl 411):11111-t fritill th.-ill'itIt. 11) lv.,i.st lilt- A raill.

( )ur StIIIIIII stea ult-rh , Ittil(Ine Specillivils lit' lt:t\; ! I are pnivilli'd u ith Inig-beauls, lIvI\Y tifillinm 14 In I- iw On too in" AMM Inn Do Out. M"hhvvessel is njilmortnt "n a ti-Im It, inds mut Uld uIlthr bintinn it' lilt, vessel. The vvs-W.I. ill this illtaill.". i, Illadl. a Irli" Itridgv. ;Ild the ilitt-lititin 1% that that lol-'r-fraltiosbijuld tit I p1mirl the hf)ttoln, Tin. I)kii-vt i, to$ IIrv\ clit I lot, IIIIIIIIIati'liv, (it' Illc vv'sel frnlli

the IrriNitionx lit' fill- vilgilles. If Y"u gn "In Ward (It'a Mi.4'i"illin 'Icalllllo'at unit put,\our eye to the A-0jin 11tini-, Ion u ill see lilt- callill 1141,11- rise III(ID. than :1 11,I)l :it eVeryIMI"th"I Ofthi. vilgim Mit 1W IMMI is jilst as ut-11 ;11111, tit liodd itvIf ill, ;ls I ship4nAl fi-vt Imig.

M r. O IN4,11:11. I that \\]tell Ille C"llillf"Ita. a 1:11,k- uu, Inlilt it unsmail that mhv inubi Ile sMillowpol at QPrn n"d Am us IMM nuglng,

Air. (;4mI1ON\IN. That nIny WM-ni thvili"iD, Inn Imompitint; ihm U uummoyrrarriml imt. It mould We In-liken ihimn in the middle.

blic)-fr(jin thi Svicnt liv Imeriiaa Soilqjbinint. 00,ilwr 1. 1-7.1.

1 imagine that Hinmat Pvnj U"Thvin P"gimiTul" ha, mid If"- Wier, tif (ItlotoiliEW nud tif Mv%%rm Uhun"Utj S"lid, anti 11ml, loritifill in jollir Wip "f Ugust A.and _Onr and 4"gWOMP Polb"01 11"I"nells lif tin- witule dutp "I"nithl.mddmt ullatiT of Moose hopm, has AS an imlitilme Diu urd giving the %vtorld at lurge,or lit least that Imirlion (of tit(- \,%iirIt ininivilialely i!i his virfinigv. the idi-as that havefornied in his inind after hix IIIIII'vor les., val-t-fill c(Ilt-idt-ratiml (Ifthe plopliKilioll lillideby t'-kl)tlllll Ealls,

That inqudw- u UL in imimt mmrs Ito MuRivit-in too carry lilt- engillevi. tlkl-()Ilgll tin--labor (11, 4.1111)(11-11thig his WPUM and I"OtIng 011,111 ill writing: and in itinny V"WX thebWwN n0pr linvilig Wwn ormiRded In, lmlwn wUI We till 4-1111114-t- flit- hvill-f lbf .1-rvicl. tothe xvorld, lm-can-4v they will ilia he g!vwi to the pliblic. P4.1-1111ps "111111. illea thils ex-Im-Kno-41, might. it'seummahly rouniumicati-d, pnii,,v 411, ill(-.I If-111.1 We \ On. to, flitl e M-1141will havv to design, and perfeet appliances fivi- the -work. and too nvo-reoniv lilt- veryinany diflicullit-m that atunil in tin- way nfa satisfavti)r avi-41111111i'llitivin (it' lilt, greatmork to be undertaken.

I therefore itrge vivil stud inechanival engill:,vrm, s1lipwriglom. .11141 Illechallivs gell-Prally, I" slIvuk out if they think that Hwy Ill vV nnything that A I he "r 04% hv tothe enterinin, Pit1wr an Mu-ing ]low it vertnin thing may he Won% on, as Anwing lwvWRnd why n vennin, tit1wr Oring imlat he avddmL lbownihier that oure whell it greatenghmAng rqwroHnn won about Mend in Wilmer, lit the rritivid IlItIIIII-Ilt till elitirely

unoRicial and unItruRvIA"nal pvmm4 in an vHthVly Ul1pnIsi\ e inatiner cried out. - Wet

INTVi-*i.oCEANIC 81111 CANAL

till- .2 .- I IIu1 161.1 qI U AI' .11 ' i n I333 f1 I to. 1 -lnI ll i ,I iit'Ii t Itno 3313-I I iaIi I 11 I'- 'l

3in 1 fit I Its- 11116161 ta k l i" 11c i , 13 . i I 1 1 6 1 i 13 1 1 3 .~ 1 6 I I'X I. . l i - 3 11 X i.

:.I I I -I t 1.11 III 11316 I ! I~ I I 1 3. :13 61 1 11116 .II:IIi tIII , I. BcIf 1 11 1 -XIiis 1 ;j1 .I I Ii 3 a11'it.I

131tI ll jil oI i III ,) III r.16 :136I1 \i of , 1 i . fII-1.161, I it 663 f1.I'. T I1 ,Z 311aNV1431

(:1 I M1 h1 IMP11 131 Mk i I I hI If %%IIltI .411 11 1 ll . 33 I lii 163 I 13 1:331:11 . 16I ii''lli66N1i '1311113111:33

ln lillt 11 111 p in ti'Ill No111 a 611111111 1 1w. .331,1.3II'111 I 13 131IIIX 3I 133336I

I Ii 11361 13. XX .11 I I I n1111 .1 331 3: I IX I31 3. III I .1 1 1 111 - X 11 t X I 3111 I t I IrI' 01

XX:It63.,,131.I' I 111 s11311 111 tilla I IX: I f- I I .Wt:1 n 13 3 I 1 1 61. 6:131 IIIIII Vp i 1 313a61

by 1 p3i ln3 21 .13 d :[fi111 Nhg . I13t3 I 1:1' . ti mt a I36X 11 131 111' \\3~ 36.33 aI .3 1661.:61 In 133. 1 .I3 11

\\ it] I "'t6 31 -I \113 'l If.,1 .1111 311 Is 3 1 11 161, t I31il :tint, IX I- 611 611X * 11. . 163131.1v

cl.- 1.311 I&1 tilt- 1,111 l1 ;I .\% 1I hu :1111 i 3 1'l giv. ' 1133III that6 ill tiltX 31lal ;11111 ' . li.l,

I-. ar11 I l I it I11 - ,I II II Ii 111 1 : 11 11 iI if .13 X 1.1 a If 4111 36 11 a~ ill 1 jIi13llX

I I I t I* tl I11 VA11 1 1 I I 1 41 1 i11 t 1 61 IIII .1 ill33 X I "d1 111 II-Il :331 1 3

11g6- II. I I 31 .'iil '131 16 36 1\3' ':3111 11133:111 3 311in111 t-I!IIlc . ,1 :r 313 1116 to 11 "aL x Is 31' . I 1:w " ' " hi "t, - m Ion II 13 IX 11 i'vrr

that 11I3 ;liI' ; 13 q1.1111 I,11 " Ii'iW i llionl 131 en N1 333. I o-II . ni"3 3111 XI'. I X 1 .11 6161o 366 416

I\II 'll - I tl v XXI' t ) a331 3 11 iIII i ll3 .13631 X I 1111 11' tit 16 t i I -- I I 3n1111111f TIli t 1136313

XII 13313 1.3\ Il It o l. 1 1. X113.13 1 iIIXI' 113 -11* lilt-(i 'li 131 1 311113'.t 331 11.3 1611 .6ll l 1.1.6133h ai

I i I 1 u 1.3 1 1 3.3 11 3 :116 I XX 11.3g.I- II;I II X 10 \I-1 X4 i' :IiI i'I I vat vlv I 1.11 611, Ilit IX h lt i'Iiia11331.1.663 1 -I 3111116.1 i 13 -I II l :33161 1.331111 11 .1 hiil : 3If,116'1: 6634 13 1111 163 XXliel

1116' 1.3I-j111311I \.1.l3 .1 i 113 161 Ili1'l'e Lori ;433'./ 1 , Il i.6lt- XX n li3316 1:04611312 [ill331.66 .. \\I - 113 li'. 11'.31'hlh Ild" 363 16131 tI ,' il, 1111311 " 1 %]I( i1133jl'6

1 l kc I'3 i ll

Ah 1.10111613' l~i 613a l; 1116 3 11. IX \1 itll 11 " l 113 i 16633g . 63 1611333 13111 % 3 '~IM1 11611( I11111 II, I3 \\ 113g3 I !3 3I(63i 1 4111 :I l I 1 1 16lI\:1\v- -lI '3I~lilw.1 11 13 i- IX 61 1 .3 3 61331111.e

'v t I I ,, ii i n anli npli.-lt 1111X 1.411. :1:133 36-1-3 1663g .111 6 3 -31 133, 11:11 hi:o- l31r1133g131p~llvdWe3 va:1 fee l 111.3611.16111 'a'1333 ".d :111 til361331..n"'aio rta 'Il a v av r

I X Ii I'II I1.1116a66'I I i I X ilg I6 III- 1 11 i1 I IX 1 ( ' 1 III1 11 NfII fI)IIIII \% I -l 61 1 .163 31I1 t 3\ M \I Ih ' . I lilt1

sor 3136' a (o3ir in31131.1.." lfiy n 111"'tI co l,.1Ia vi hl~11 O \ l tit 1.3 36111 6' \lli '3 i, illt ll-X 1 60it :6In tl I 33 l l . lot fin 'r m d fill \% l it i. 11 11 ' 6 i

lw 1.1 l \1,a ".31\4 11, h l '1\\ Iv3a t e r l.lt'1 i--)liv i im1'1X '3iou irn2is 3163 36 XXII l3'.M 11 i t)\ v Ini gi' oy'if, and t ~ it doI his 11311'l11 36Il~ki 11.63 XX 6111131f

61 i ll 1 . 4 '6'1.3il JiiXX 63' al 6a33 33331 t 11133 :33 1111 \I - In' . \ 133 X 1 3313 lisi )31X16 fit' 1 111.ca33 'l 16 I XX 11 ritIll:[-h i' 333 111633. :31 16111 (lilt allllllth'Ii 36 1113 11 Il1 111:11 . 336f \\ iclXil, 313hj1Clv 11' XIiItc i 1 I-et 111 3633a (3 re il-fl13.31.n '( i I k'tl 11111 b y b

It0 .%1 333 ll 1'I1lik1:11o, 13w Ali 3116311 tsM' WX ill. XIn i ue113111 nit fi'or~ 3136i'I hi03 X-It lli

NNlitint dI o-3 133 lll 1113' 11 131111 ;.lIX1'13: 111133. 3 1

33 '333 3633.

~i.i ilII tf w re i i l3l (-3 1136 i tyij I"' 3313 1 111 3333 i l'-i133l - it' :33X'31131 3 fif- 1 I3X 1rl,

(I 1. 6111161011 3 f11 .1.33

TI l (333313 3'!a 63' 11 l 1141'1:1 663 XX 11e'11, in XMy(13 I I Iny' and 3~M 1 66 W itt.(u'lIa6X'l li g tlr1333 033'.lI 131 1 13.331 66 1a1 Iiv ll I 1 3' 1 31) 1 ( 3 1i363- 1f.36t1,13(, h X1e'3

331 17i Al. I m, a~l 131111. i o116 u3

~.j( los3 163133 1 4M.33e'3'1b lI6ll. I 1Xh~31i1r'

INTERO'E.ANC S11i1 CANAL. 73

'll .X

Ca~o Co proo~e Pnnma dii r~~raa.-Ie~ig:1.4l ~ .. M.;b~~ 4

IN'l'1fI('JAN-1 81111 C (ANAL.

weii'l 0li 41ii 111$i i ll, tro41 ls i fi fil e l '~ lih l , li( Ii i fi l 111 1e' 41, ll ol" . f 14 li'4 44flt 11S11 . lt fi, lvle 1 t t l- b vt w .411O "'iilof ;~ .. 10tiw

The% '414% lil1.1".1 414 4,ik-fo11 4I lit I~ ai 'ioil fiti4 film: ili1% I wi4,fiii 444 i4 % i ' l 11111 151~4IlI441iili ii 4e,44% it it. 1111 7 t iiel 1r I to Vl 1W041 lo.u et,,~ ll ' 4141. i ~, il '4 1i'" 41lii I44'

'4 i'4'4i4'. II I i, i ieia 4. *Iolel i' he J4 4'.il Ow4141 l , 4'' oi- 11111411,4 1iii luau it~ iole Ioii h

1111Illiti' 4 ?1 ueit~' lii aslitl Iit Ilp~alil 01 # se41 4 k ie the'l l i ll~h F il eil toi l l tt ' 4 o',la'1411' Iii i'l.ie 111,1 4 111 Ithe ta is. %%14 4111 1flu o f lt e rlg lo m iifl'flot

'lim'i''. 41 4 Ill, ca 1, 111 %% Ii. 'a ItI' il l-to hvii' lau ill44 1 'e1fl hil N l l;cai" l, gai'%.t111 l

Wo -'1 i441 ls i 1111 i~t tilt iV'14 g 4Iaal :

The I144....................................................

oy 6 - (li~ ''Ifif o.Io' I ull I ....... ....................... 43I olli lw t I ''efi Iu~jl Ii~~' . . . . . . . . . 4

S'l1i1.1114.'.. 114 . ri'... . l. .. .. .. .. .. .. . . .. .. .. .. ............Iif11' . 441 . .. .. i.. .. '.. f. ie. ei r .l~ . ~' .414 . i..zi..ji..41..4i.. .. .. ..li.~ . 4,14, v4i

T1 e,14 l . .i~444 .141 '1...... . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. . . . . . ....

tomud li1i g1' fi44i 1011............................................... .... i wi

A \'.h Ivt l ....... '......4..'.......... .... ......... ........... : i;

A li ig l'it 4.1 1% l el w i lneiil it ca41li' i4r 144 h"

110111. aitgt n d W i'~ 'll4l .,e'' ld lit' 1410110111 4' l ll'4 (4il 114101' . wi li d tak t11l4 i'll ."ImaIl'4fr lo~owe'I lot iive'11'4,i' 1 114' 111vI'-'I'iNe fire', off it wi ii'140%1g tit thie rate (it' Vi inilis petr

hourl, iee'l, w%41111 exer 4 i(Pj lhI"'ile i~l iil1111 1 10 Ii(lilliIld sIto 1114r4' filnt ofi oloil4d '4111'.

Ther'3 10lil his44 ii' Ill f114414 lil11141 11 lii.4'4~ iillli i litsheel. AltlI w'ils iinslile iu'e mi,On4~' 41,4444 Iouke.. wil i s '4m'e il al h tI 4ii1i I li.'iog o \V4111JiI Iti41 34 bv t. lit 1. 1 i ji lef tit('lh44ifle ci, 11* Nell 'nifil fle 4.111 il114 1111111.

"I'll0-111 liiti I l .144 1o1.14' flCh 1114M-11 grillfill-l' 11111014111, ii11141 14'44l~k 1"l' 114141 Wo4uldth

d viu'i' Iroigl Iwithi 11.4 cioilod wl ). (fllli i'd

T1ol 444 IIIId'''4" fil tit11114 llo 'itohilli' 41 ghadiif...........................per *E'm,0, (4441

"Thle .'41eli let i wiilIl 'e.t 1 11(m., '11141411.. ........ ... * . ... 00 . . . 4. . i00. . ..... (o)l

Totfiii...O*.. .. ....... .. .. ....... ....... 4....... . ... ?00

to ~ ~ ~ ~ IIIVCWI $i1111ii 10 1 !.jn i ii' itlt i~e~ ' J4AI111 li',ed t ti

c oa d 'tlinol h /1 o'e lst " hio' iii" l " to "I II iii 111 ltillt~i aew itO I ei till-pilI''l i i' be H i i' kiall l' ag iill ifleON f ir i i e i th l i's 11,101i ''p i t t o) '' III Itl d

Sit I menc lil k,14 111 ' l'l vIii li tll I oiii' If I t) i l it - lie'11111 I woit I II' f11 lailig 11nit41 fi ll.

a I i I I I 1g ihf l I 'ell '.' ii ti I lic ";t' I i l Io r i i Jt !W a ill t14 1,'11,44 o i'il g it iit t 41111 '1ow l

ui 11141 gpi ic'cl- fir 1 li tic' Hti'uII 1ll$-.I womb! eegla ll, oiii Mu' %%,Hil do no1tl' e i'cI for iiilllt''i $ill fl 11 ili eut111el i'igt 'iit cih o e ' ' 'l 5451c

glilt' 4111,1 1 j,1l'11111 tall' I caelot woul o (111111 -1i('iil i pci llilil t it' a ri ng 11111e , f"ullt)or

''iITi :e ili "111 iM tolt ti bon! "A mol (i~.rlov tIIIp:I iIe al n

t14.1e'a t ic' .4 ni a or It v'm 411111h Wie Ih Iirl ie t il 'allip Ik*0i 011,t 't The tie' 4 li.' It' til

10111% lfir'l 4l fi eiiii c #,I' ti lo'' If" vU ~ i :I it I s lqP h ['i lilt pl sil Ii t I13 itiei i1 $'l' %% 411 to19raln 111'1111c wt hv to'111 f 'i'i it oii In lk111li' k, with ciii 111 ill-t I-li, 1t'IN tiiol Iii1 alontil PN l'.lo tetif wai7 rat or hsip I till , I "A' av e I,,' ~a itili', I -ie i il 11

11100 fi' i 'l ~ 111 Ii i'ocvin 1 % j I f ti ll tc 01,'k .1 lie' 4 sao 1t1ira g l'ivltli I' l 'ca'io'l,"1

'rlie' feicliit ia rc', ii r'd I i I i tiit's e i $ i i I ll' heI~ 11114' imnm l m III I nu'i ist'411rusm''. I" h'd to n m it2 Jowr e l-'k h l.' it I ie % li' 1#111.11'ii 1'iii upt'e 10Ith lu li. ll VP .6 11

wIl tI li0-4 1 tlit't I 41-hII t IlaI'Ie I Nprv flt , ttl4'c111 l lidM 1See a l41,1)o.:1'I'huo fill, ail,. wil' wieai 0 illt'h owielmce tl tioalalo a11w T'heaou otit aefn th . I wI'k

;tvi i tr ia 'Iit likelo) ontler-11Oril 13 viw f t~ei t so'11 , 041 m l8 l 'It'1it'tuln11t rie' a l 'X('17 1llot*Wngetwo-tk. hrisaIh rv vIlaoIlIhevm 11th 111ayrudMl

ve~~ I;S'riViR ci:ANI(' .4illie CANAL.

'. v# ;I I, ~lv I lite' 11411 ietci ls % t lo e I 11116'.4A I iti e'villim 1144% efiletIit iict mg aii I iiet Ie *eII I1ecl w

-e~ Iict Ii'.. t1el, 1111 te i" cci i liiti io %% hieihig oil' 1 4i mil , 11d 14 ifiti~eil it c~iVte e isve ilk,I -t it %jlIeIpIIe0 I'ebIt e $i~lf e eI I tIe I. 4W a0 iiit il sst11111111g. It I I I t lsu u.. I Heicl ~le ie', e lotw 104

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till inialellso" vXvilvat loll 111.1mv ill-alikage, Us wt-11 as a 114-4-11 ent throwing itIlloollfaill pass.

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i

INTEROCEANIC 8HIP CANAL.

the ship railway in the form in which he desired to use it. I made application andreceived letters patent of the Unitt States, March 29, 1865 assigning them to himon issuing. I present the drawings of this patent, marked Exhibit No. 2. Mr. Day'splan proposed a straight railway incline about three miles long, between slack-waterchannels led in from Ontario and Erie. A descending water caisson on one multipletrack was always to balance an ascending caisson on a parallel multiple track, theweight of both being the same while filled with water whether they contained shipsor not. Mr. Day was defeated in his application to Congress for a charter by thepowerful opposition of parties interested in the Erie Canal, and in a rival project fora Niagara ship canal. The plan remains to be executed. It is national in its char-acter, and the railway in the form proposed by Mr. Day may well be constructed bythe United States for the defense of the lakes. It- can be built with a capacity tomove the largest ships which navigate the lakes for a fraction of the cost of the Well-and Canal.

WVithout appearing formally before thp Connnittee on Military Affairs of the Senateof the United States, to which Mir. Day's application for a charter was referred, I wasin frequent coinunication with Hon. Henry Wilson, its chairman, and other mem-bers.

In a printed argument addressed to that committee in February, 1865, by CharlesH. Woodman, on behalf of Mr. Day there occurs the following remarkable testimonyof W. H. Talcot, superintendent of the Morris Canal, which 's of present as well ashistorical value:

"This canal overcomes 1,449 feet elevation by means of 23 inclined planes. WhenI came here the cargoes were only 18 tons. The canal has been enlarged and theplanes adapted to 100-ton cargoes. The planes work with the same certainty as thelocks and with much greater facility. There is in fact no detention at the planes.

"A mile of canal embracing in it a plane with 100 feet elevation, is passed qule asquiek as a mile of level canal.

"The planes on this canal have cost about one-third as much as locks would havecost to overcome the same elevation.

"A vessel of one thousands tons cargo could be carried on twenty rails if the vesselwas one hundred feet long, or ten rails if the vessel was two hundred feet long, with-out subjecting the wheels or rails to any greater service than those now used on theMorris Canal.

"The transtion from take to lake [at Niagara] by means of Plane- could be made in one-tenth the time that would be required to make the same by means of lock*."

In some respects the planes for the trade of the lakes would have to be differentfrom the planes on the Morris Canal. The safe transition of vessels of the mize re-quired for that trade, and particularly those laden with grain in bulk, would requirethe natural support of water on every part of the vessel; in other words, the vesselmust not be taken out of the water during the overlandpassage. This can be accom-plished by making the car which is to carry the vessel a water tight caisson large

f enough to receive the largest vessel. Every vessel would then displace from the cais-son a amount of water just equal to its weight, causing the load upon the wheels andthe strain on the machinery to be always the same whatever might be the size orweight of the vessel and cargo.

The improved construction of the largest steamers and ships, and also of marinecradles, makes it possible now to dispense with the water support, insisted on sostrongly by Mr. Talcot as late as 1886. For these vessels, therefore, I revert to my orig-inal plan of a specially adapted cradle without water support, For a large class ofsmaller vessels of inferior construction the water-caisson will probably still be usel.The details of the ship railway mustbe decided on this point. as on others, by censulta-tion of the mot experienced naval architects as well as railroad engineers.

Mr. Day, in 1885, obtained the opinion of many engineers on the different problemsof the ship railway, and published various pamphlets and lithographic drawings illus-

T " treating the system.In the year 186 I pro a drawing illustrating the ship railway as a substitute

for the Languedoc Ship anal between tme Bay of Biscay and the Mediterranean, to besubmitted to the French Government. I present a copy of it, marked Exhibit No. o,While resembling the patent drawing of the same year, It shows the turn-table, thetilting-table (inan elementary form), and theshifting table, withlateral movement, forthe transfer of the cradle-ear from track to track.

U to thi time these were the only expedients which I had proposed to meet changesof Adtrecton and grade in the road.

Somewhat later I devised a cradle-oar with axles or trucks, which were capable

vmer oertai restrictions and guidance of horizontal excursion sufficient to adaptftbm i the longest oar, to a curve of large radius. I have heard the same plan sinceproposed b some other muebanloal engineer. Still later I have overcome the muchgreater difculty of adapting a rigid cradle-oar, several hundred feet in length to

.I'

80 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

pass over changing grades or inequalities in the track, preserving at the same timeequal pressure on every wheel.

In April, 1879, 1 published an article on the ship railway in the New York Times, forthe purpose of calling the attention of the congress soon after to meet in Pans tothis solution of the isthmus problem. My French correspontlent, to whom I forwardedcopies for translation and repulication, reported subsequently the uselessness of anyattempt to change the predetermined action of that body.

It only remains for me to state. the general features of the plan which I now purposefor a ship railway across the American isthmus.

The terminal dock in which the ship is received and from which it is dischargedmay partake partly.of the character of a lock, the ship being raised part of the requi-site distance by the admission of water in the usual way.

The ship is then floated over the submerged cradle-car and blocked in the cradle ina special manner, as it leave-s the water. The graAe of the multiple track within thedock way be of the usual grade of marine railways, changing, by a tilting table, to theinitial grade of the main road; or it may be possible to make the transition from theinclined plane of the track within the dock to the grade of the main road so gentlethat a tilting table may be dispensed with. The niultiple track of the main road wilextend between the dcks with as few abrupt changes of direction or grade as possi-ble, to obviate the necessity of turn-tables and tilting tables. The ship carried overthe railway will be delivered at the (lock where it is discharged by action the reverseof that in the receiving (lock. Cradle-ears will be from two hundred to four hundredand fifty feet in length, or longer if necessary, to convey ships of the largest size.Their construction will necessarily be very elaborate, using all the refinements knownin car construction, beside special features of their own. The arrangement of wheelsand trucks and of springs will be such as to preserve equal pressure on every wheel,and to allow, by the methods referred to, of curves of large radius and moderatechanges of grade in the road. Air brakes and automatic brakes, gauged to a definitespeed, will be provided. The ship-car will be moved out of the marine dock by sta-tionary power, and drawn over the intervening road by a special locomotive adaptedto the multiple track, or by more than one locomotive, if a division of the power ispreferable. The track which I prefer is one of ten steel rails, weighing one hundredpounds to the yard, with a five-foot gauge. The largest cradle-car, with containedsteamer, weighing in all ten thousand tons, would rest on one thousand wheels, eachsustaining a weight of teu tons. I propose an initial speed of six miles an hour, to beincreased only as experience assures safety. The time required for docking a shipand raising it to the level of the road will not exceed one or, at utmost, two hours.

The largest existing steamers are eriodically, and at great expense, drawn out ofthe water on cradle-cars on the meser marine railway, unless raised by a verticallift, as represented in the drawings of Exhibits 2 and 3, or otherwise docked. Afterbeing moved thus 500 or 600 feet they are scraped and painted, a process requiringfrom 12 to 20 hours. The transit of these vessels across the American isthmus on theship railway will furnish a much prized opportunity for this necessary work, andthere would often be loss instead of gain in making the time of transit less than thatrequired for this purpose. A considerable revenue of the slip railway may be derivedfrom this source. I owe these data to the valuable experience of 1r. H. H. Hall, ofthe Tehuantepec Interocean Railway Company, of New York.

Sebillot, a French engineer, in a recent plan for a ship railroad at the Isthmus ofPanama, has proposed fewer and heavier rails and fewer and much larger wheels thanthose which I have adopted. Questions as to the precise number and size of rails andwheels, of proportion of parts and strength of materials, and, generally, concerningthe details of construction of the ship railway, must be finally decided by the opinionof no single expert, but by the ruature consideration and judgment of those best quali-tied in the different departments of engineering and construction which are involved.

In conclusion: The terminal docks and the marine railway by which the ship willbe raised to the level of the main road are elements of the ship railway already in suc-cessfld practical use. The multiple track of the main road is also easy of construction,and within the province of any accomplished railroad engineer. The construction of thecradle and of the ship-ear in its adaptation to curves and changes of grade, with equalpressure ou every wheel, and in many other details, i-quires now appliances which be-lon- to the department of the mechanical engineer and naval architect. The turn-tabTes, tilting tables, and shifting tables for the multiple track also require novel ex-pedients in construction.

Having traced my connection with the ship railway from its inception, prior to 1851,and, during its development, to the present time, and having expressed my readinessto take part in its construction on the American isthmus, I now respectfully ask thecommittee that in any bill they may agree to report to the House of Rep entative,.they will grant me suitable recognition.

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INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 81

WASHINGTNo, D. C., April 10, 80.

VIEWS OF MR. PICKETT.

Mr. PICKM'T cawe before the committee in advocacy of the'Irehuiutepec route. Hesaid that he had prepared an address on the subject of the interoceanie canal, butthat finding that the subject bad been much better presented by the so'ietv of civilengineers in New York, he would not read it. to the committee. His interest in the subjecthad been aroused a great many years ago by the fact of his I ig in Mexico, and hav-ing, in 1656 and 1857, superintended the construction of a wheel road across the Isth-mus of Tehuantepec preliminary to the railroad then designed to be constructed underwhat was known as the Sloe grant. While confined to a bed of sickness last year, hesaw that public attention had been attracted to the interoceanic canal question, and

r that among the various routes the advantages of the Tehuautepee route were scarcelymentioned, or, if mentioned at all, that they were inunediately dismissed with the re-mark that the summit level was too great, that there was no water, and that thetransit was too long, &e. He happened to be well acquainted with Commodore Shu-feldt who had made a survey of that istimus sone eight years ago, and whose veryable report had been published by the Navy Department. fie was also well acquaintedwith Commander Selfridge of the Navy, who had surveyed the Atrato and Napapiroutes and others. On seeing that the interoceanic canal congress was about to meetin Paris in June, lb79 and knowing that Commander Selfridgo was then in commandof a ship in the Baltic, he had addressed him a letter oil the subject, which letter had beenreceived duringg the session of the congress and the commodore had written him quitean indignant letter in regard to the proceedings of that congress, saying that if thecongress had selected the next best route lie would have been satisfied; but that asit had selected the worst of all the routes-the Panama route-he was disgusted. That,however, had not lessened his (Mr. Pickett's) interest ij the Tehuantepec route, andhe had addressed a letter to a morning paper in this city, setting forth the advantagesof that route, but the newspaper had declined publishing it, although it was con-stantly publishing articles in favor of the Nicararuan route. He had subsequentlyaddressed it a letter in regard to Admiral Ainnens statement, in which he thoughtthat the admiral had fallen into soie errors; but he could not got even that letter in-serted, and, therefore, he had come to the conclusion that there was a Nicaragua ringhere.

He went on to say that he had no personal interest in the matter, but that he hadhad o portunities of judging fully of the merits of the Tehuantepec route, and that leshould continue to feel the greatest interesting it. As to the practicability of that routehe would simply say that the mouth of the river Coatzocoalcos, which would be theentrepot on the Atlantic side, was 815 miles only from the southwest pasi of the Mis-sissippi, and only about 50'0 miles from our Mexican frontier, the month of the RioGran de. The length of the transit across Tehuantepec in a direct line running duenorth and south was 143 miles. The length of the canal as aligned by CommodoreShufeldt, or by his able engineer, Mr. Fuentes. -f New York, was 144 iiles. Addingto that the river navigation on the Coatzocoalcos of 30 miles, would give 1 4 miles ofentire length of transit. The summit level hd been fixed at 732 feet by Mr. Fuentes,the engineer of Commodore Shufeldt's party, but a Mexican engineer some forty yearsago hadd calculated that summuit level at (WU feet. He presumed, however, that theAmerican engineer was more correct; 7312 feet was less than the lengtht of this Capitolbuilding. It was3 estimated that 70 leeks with the usual elevation of conunon canallocks, 1b feet, would be sufficient for this canal. The Chesapeake and Ohio Canal fromGeorgetown to Cumberland, 184 miles in length, had a summit level of 610 feet and74 locks. It was proposed to carry that canaFover the Alleghanies, and within a fewyears past the surveys had been completed under the direction of the War Depart-ment, and the summit level of the canal would then be '2,0)0 feet. Gentlenmen who hadaddressed their ninds to the subject of interoccanic transit said that canalization wasin its intancy. It had been neglected in this country for the last forty years on accountof the superior advantages of railways; but one of those gentlemen reported that hehad frequently built locks of 10 and %22 feet lift, and that there is a canal lock in NewJersey of 30 feet lift, and he would recomnuend by all nieaus that any lock on the inter-oceanic canal should have a lift of 20 feet, which would be as easy as one of 10 feet,although, of course, it would be much more expensive. They could, therefore, getover the summit level of the Tehuantep ec canal with 35 locks, which would be aboutequal to a day lost at most. But the distance saved us between Tehuantepec and thePanama route would be equal to 1000 miles, and as between the Tehuantepec and theNicaraguan lronte 1,300 or 1,400 miles. As to the harbor, lie would say that the mouthof the Coatzocoalcos is obstructed by a permanent bar, principally of clay. That barhad been there since the tinie of Cortes, the water on il varying from 12 to 16 feet,according to the season of the year. That bar was a IermaAent bar; but, once re-

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82 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

moved, it would remain removed forever, and the silt would be carried over into deepwater.

lie said Teli anteec Ipossessed a splendid climate and a fertile soil aud was perfectlysalubrious. At thetime that he was constructingthe wheel road there, nearly a quarterof a century ago, lie had under him 500 Gennans, Irish, and Americans, and soe 780Indians, and could not recall a single death among them except one, and that was notfrom climatic disease. He said that there is no yellow fever there except at intervalsof years, and that when it did appear it wias confined to the Atlantic side and to thetown of Minatitlan. But, in his opinion, the inost important aspect of the case was thepolitico-econotical 2lvautages of the Tehumntepec route. He repeated, that it wasbut eight or nine hundred miles from the mouth of the Mississippi to the Atlantic sideof that transit, and that that was in the Gulf of Mexico, which couht be converted into-n American lake whenever t]he United States thought proper. The United States beingco-ri!,arians with Mexico, had a right to (leniand free transit through the Gulf of Mexico,and thereby to gain access to their possessions on the Pacific. If the committee wouldglance at t common map it would see how simple and easy it would be to close upthat gulf by a few cruiser's from Yucatan to Cuba on one side and from Cuba to theDry Tortugas on the other, altogether not 200 miles. In that view, there should bealso taken into accouit the entire feasibilit. of.ojiening a canal across the Isthmus ofFlorida. He stated that the saving in marine insurance alone would be sufficient topay the expense of opening and supporting a canal across Florida, and that thatwould give to the United States a direct route front New York and the other Atlanticharbors to the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. As to the Monroe doctrine, he remarkedthat no one dreamed of permitting any European power (not already having posses-sions on the continent or in the West Indies) to erect fortresses on the isthmus or any-where else on the continent. Of course Great Britain, Frdnce, Spain, Holland, Swe-den, the Netherlands, and all other powers of Europe that held possessions in the WestIndies, could huild what fortifications they pleased on their own islands, but he con-tended that with a.n interoceanic canal over the isthmus at Tehuantepec the wholequestion of the .Monroe doctrine would be avoided, because the transit front Tehuan-tepee to the United States would lbe through the Gulf of Mexico, in which the UnitedStates were larger riparians than Mexico herself.

He left with the connnittee a copy of late proceedings before the American Societyof Civil Engineers, and read the following paragraph from a paper submitted by Mr.Ashbel Welch: "Great as is the undertaking to build tle Nicaragua canal, it is mereehild's pla-y compared with the attempt to make a thorough cut through the valley ofthe Chagres with its two and twenty rivers which at tijues become so many deluges."He added that lie himself was not a civil engineer, being in that respect like Mr. deLesseps, and that, like that gentlemen, he haff also been a diplomat. His main objectin appearing before the committee had been to explain the politico-economical advant-agesi of the Tehuantepec routte and its perfect safety in time of wvar,

STATEMENT OF MR. SIDNEY F. SHELBOURNE.

Mr. S1IRLBOUn.E, of New York, appeared before the committee and made a state-ment in favor of the proposed San Bias route. te said that he had no speech to makein regard to it, but would simply say that for years he had studied and examined allthe proposed routes and all the surveys for an interoceanic canal. He had no per-sonal or pecuniary interest in any of them, but he had come deliberately to the concln-sion that the San Bias route was the shortest, the best, the cheapest, and would bethe most permanent and most useful to the commerce of the world.

Mr. Co),NieR. As a tide-level canal I'Air. SHEi,nUIoiuN. Yes.Air. m.nLnouu. then proceeded to demonstrate to the committee, by a reference to

inmaps, the various points of advantage in the proposd San Bias eanal. He said thatMr. Kelley and the gentlemen associated with hini had sent alt ogether seven expeditionsto the isthmus, and that the map which lie now exhibited to the committee was madefrom the last survey. It was made in 1464. A map, No. 12, which accompanied Self-ridge's report, and which was made in 1870, wa,, made up almost, and entirely (so faras related to the Pacific side) from this map of Mr. Kelley s. Solfridge had commencedhis survey on the Atlantic side at the beginning of the rainy season, about the !5th ofApril, and had surveyed tip to a point where he had met the stakes of Mr. Kelley's sur-vey. Selfridge had plotted his map from his own survey on the Atlantic side, andfrom Mr. Kelley's sarvey on the Pacifle ide, and had estimated the tunnel to be 10miles in length, while the estimate of Mr. Kelley's surveyors was that the tunnel wouldbe only 7 miles long. The fact of Commander Selfridge stating the length of the tunnel

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 83

to be 10 miles had cast a cloud over the San Bias route, because inet of science wouldnaturally say that here was a government officer who had made a survey and hald fixedthe length of the tunnel at 10 miles. What Mr. Kelley now wanted wits that the gov-ernment should survey this route as it had surveyed the Nicaragua and Pananiaroutes,so as to determine just how long the tunnel would he and the open cut would be.Enough was known to enable him to state that from the waters of the Gulf of San 131sto the mouth of the river Mandinga was 30 miles and a few feet, so that it was a littleless than 27 minutes of a degree of latitude. He stated that on the bar of the Bayanothere were 16 feet of water at low tide, and that the tides there averaged 16 liet, a ndthe spring tides rose to 20 and 21 feet. Admiral Anunen had stated reform the com-ittee that the title rose 21 orV'2 feet, and had created the impression that there was

a difference of 21 or 22 feet between tile Atlantic and the Pacific, and that it would N3necessary to have a barrier to w all back that 21 feet of water. That same statementhad been made by Mr. Menocal. He had talked with Mr. Meuacal last fall in NewYork, and they hal agreed on one fact, which was this, that if there was no tide inthe Atlantic and no tide in the Pacific, the level of half tide wouhl be the general levelof the two oceans.

He said that lie should like to have the government order an army, not a naval, stir-vey of the isthmus, because all'the naval surveys that had been iiade hall all centeredand gone into the Nicaragua route, Why this was so he would not pretend to say.VWhy a naval officer in command of an expedition to make a survey should adopt tileroute where his own survey was made was a question ofethics, of litman nature, whichlie would leave the committee to solve. lint what lie wished was to have a survey of theSan Blas route made under the auspices of the government, either by civil engineerser by the Engineer Corps of the Army. In regard to the statement ilade by the advo-cates of the Nicaragua route, that by relocation of a part of that line the distancemight be shortened 12 tiles, he said that lie had taken Mr. Meiocial's 1mp and hadmeasured the distance in a straight line from the harbor of Greytown to where thecanal entered into the liver SanVraneiseo, and instead of its being shortejed l2niiles,even the direct line could only be shortened 5J miles.

Mr. TuRNER, What is the length of the tunnel on the San Blas route according asit has been surveyed under Mr. Kelley's auspices?

Mr. SHELBOURNE. Seven niiles.Mr. TuR.lER. What is the height of the mountain above the tunnel.Mr. SxmLBOun,.Nz. The height of the individual peaks is about 1,500 feet, but tho

general plateau of the mountain between the ridge on the Pacific side and the ridgeon the Atlantic is generally from 500 to 600 feet high.

Mr. COwtjER. What is the character of the Bayano River as to its depth and width?Mr. SRELBOURNE. The depth of the river above this point (indicating on the map)

where the canal enters has not been definitely surveyed. The tide rises up to thispoint.

Mr. CONGER. What would be the distance on the scale of that map from the pointwhich you have marked as the head of tide-water to the waters of the bayf

Mr. KELLEY (answering). In a straight line the distance is about 15 or 1I miles.The object in connecting with the river at this point is to avoid drainage. I main-tain that a canal should not follow a drainage nor cross a drainage, but should heout of reach of drainage, so that there can be no danger of its being washed away ordrained out. That is the reason why we select this route. If we followed this otherway (indicating on the map) we would follow a line of drainage, but by this way (in-dieating)we avoid a line of drainage, and from this point (indicating on the map) wego nearly straight to the Atlautic. Thit river here (indicating) is a small streamwhich we turn out of its course. It contains perhaps 5 or 7 feet of water in the drvseasn and 10 or 15 feet of water in the rainy season. It is proposed to change its bed[so that that river cannot cross the line of our canal, Then this will leave the canalperfectly free from any stream. The peculiar feature of this line is that the canal isout of reach of drainage.

Mr. .SINOLETON. You mean that the stream is parallel with the line of the canal IMr. KELLEY. Yes; another peculiar feature of this line is that it is a well known

fact that there is perhaps two or three times the amount of rainfall oii the Atlanticside that there is on the Pacific side. In other words, the Pacific side of the isthmus isthe driest side and the Atlantic side is the wettest side. That i so for the whole lengthof the isthmus. Now our shortest tlope is on the Atlantic side (which is the wettestside) and our longest elope is on the Pacific side (wiich is the driest side). That isexactly the reverse of what is the case with all the other routes proposed. Theirlongest slope is on the Atlantic side and their shortest on the Pacific side.

Mr. 0, TtUNER (to Mr. Shelbourne). What would be tme necessary height of a tunnelon that route I

Mr. S xmounNa. We have proposed a tunnel of 168 feet from top to bottom-thatis 98 feet below the surface of the water and 140 feet above It.

Mr. 0. Tummmu. That tunnel would cost more than all the rest of the work, I suppoeI

84 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

Mr. SHE.LBOUItS.. It would cost about as much as all the rest of it, but in that 7miles of tunnel there is only one-half of the cubic contents of rock that there is inone section (the Culebra section) of the Panama route, as advocated by Mr. do Los-sops. This Culebra section contains altogether about 34,000,000 cubic yards of rock,while this tunnel on a comparative estimate contains less than 17,000,000 cubic yardsof rock. Now, when the small heading is put through-a heading of 40 yards of sec-tion (while the St. Gothard tunnel has a section heading of 70 yards)-then everycubic yard of the remainder of that excavation for the tunnel becomes equivalent toa cubic yard of the Do Lesseps excavation, with the advantage that in the San Biastunnel the men will be working under a roof and have an equal temperature all theyear round, and citn work all the year round, night and day, while on the Panamaroute the work would be detained by showers and by nights and by floods and rains.

Mr. CONGEIR. Describe this proposed tunnel-as to its foundations and sides andtop and curve and foris generally.

Mr. SIIELBiOURnI. The top of this tunnel will be 140 feet above the level of the sea,which, with the 28 feet below the level of the sea, will make the whole height 166feet. The first thing to be done in the excavation of such a tunnel is to run a headingat the top of it, and make the roof of the heading to correspond with the roof of theproposed tunnel. In running a preliminary tunnel or heading, there is no trouble tobe apprehended fr-om drainage, because it will be located 140 feet above the level ofthe sea, and the water will flow out at either end. As you go on with the excavationdownward, the tunnel widens out, because the arch increases in width and you havea drainage outwardly. Consequently, until you get to the level of the sea, there is nodifficulty wiith the drainage in this excavatiou. An objection against the San Biasroute has been urged before this committeee by the advocates of the Nicaragua route,that when you get, to the level of the sea you would have the whole sea to contendwith. Now how does that appear? Here is the mouth of this tunnel (indicating onthe map) 5 miles from the sea on one side and 12 miles from the sea on the other side.Here on the one side we have a bulkhead of 2 miles of earth and 3 miles of rock.The sea does not tlow through the land. The Atlantic ocean is not flowing under thiscontinent. No more will the sea flow through the land at this point (indicating).When we get down to the level of the sea, it is simply but a question of pumping in atunnel.

Mr. 1TFASKELL. What warrant have you that you will not strike fissures or quick-sands, or springs, or things of that sort

Mr. SHELnOUItNEi. In all geological forms that are primary, such as granite--un-stratified rock-we find the closest and driest rock that can be found in any excava-tion. In the St. Gothard tunnel there were 2,000 meters that passed through granitegneiss, and they found it entirely dry. Granite rock is a close compact unstratifiedrock. It does not show scales or seams.

Mr. HASKELL. I did not know but that there might be some volcanic action, whicheven in granite formation would open up fissures.

Mr. SiIELBOURNE. It has been reported that this route would be equivalent togoing through a mountain of cobblestone, and that quicksauds, and possibly eavernsmight be encountered, but the ftt is that the base of this mountain is granite, andgranite is a primary formation that is close and not liable to seams. I have consulted,n reference to the probability of finding an inflow or infiltration into that tunnelwhich could not be managed, Mr. 8hanley, who has had great experience in suchworks, and he regards that apprehension as all moonshine. He says that when youget.to the sea level and when you are excavating 28 feet below, every section of the

excavation can be kept clear of water with ordinary pumping. Besides, it is a dif-ferent problem altogether to pump water of 2, feet from pumping it up 1,100 or 1,5t0feet in a shaft, as was done in the Hoosac tunnel.

Mr. HASKELL. Then I presume that your impression is that after your heading isput through (your preliminary tunnel) you have a rock cutting of simply 150 or 1(i0,feet for 7 miles?

Mr. SHuILnOURn'. That is it.Mr. CONGER. Without the necessity of wallingIMr. SUELBOUn-0. Without the necessity of walling. Most of the great tunnels

that have been already built have gone largely through mica schists, which arestratified rocks. Out of 25,000 feet of length in the Hoosac tunnel there was only4,000 feet of it that required an artificial arch. If, now, we say that the rock in thistunnel instead of being close granite consists partly of schists, as in the Hoosac tun-nel, perhaps one-sixth of it, or one mile of it, would require an artificial arch-andthat omly m the heading, not in the sides,Mr. Co ummi. If it went through quicksands or through insecure foundations, then,

of course, there would have to lie a base provided for the structure.Mr. SHICLBOURNB. Yes, there would have to be an artificial arch made.Mr. Co. NOM Whatever estate you have made for the construction of this whole

work hat been made with reprence to a given charmeter of rock such as you think

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INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 85

must exist there, or has it been made with regard to any possibilities as to what theformation may be?

Mr. SHELBviR.,E. The estimates that have been made for that excavation of rockhave len exactly the estimates which the De Lesseps commission has recently putupon the excavation of rock on the Panama route-with the exception that we haveestimated the excavations in the preliminary tunnel or heading at $9 per cubic yard.The remainder we have taken at precisely the same figure as Mr. te Lesseps hastaken for his excavations in the Panama project. It is much cheaper and easier toexcavate granite as a hard rock than it is to excavate a soft rock with those difficul-ties that ray be mentioned as connected with soft rocks--seams and the infiltrationof water.

Mr. CONGER. I suppose that your mode of removing the material would be to re-move it by either end, and to descend front the apex down?

Mr. SuEinuouitmr. Precisely.Mr. Coq(;E,. That would provide for'btl earring out at either cad o" all the waste

material and ai.positing such waste at either end of the tunnel !Mr. SIIELBOUR.i: Yes. We have here, (indicating on the map) 5 miles of)pu cult.

Now, as soon as the fte.'ding proceeds into the rock for half a mile. a tra,'k will belaid down as the heading proceeds, and the material will be railroad dcd out anddumped on the low ground on either side of the proposed canal.

Mr. It'Nm;r,,x. ifvon would throw the waste out at each cnl of the cuttingwonld it not have to he handled the second time

Mr. AIlELM, ivs n... No, sir. Yon will perceive that the open cut excavation willstart here (indicating on the map) at the surface of the water, and will go downthrough on a forward inclination until we get to the mouth (if the tunnel, 190 feetabove the level of the sea. The tunnel then commences. You lay yoar railroadtrack on the floor of the tunnel, and railroad the material out and dump it on eitherside outside of the line of the tunnel.

Mr. SINGLETON. What do you estimate as the height of a vessel such as would usethis canal, front tho keel to the top of the mast f

Mr. SI-ELJIOURNa. I have made very many investigations in reference to thelargest ships. I have inquired as to the City of Chest-r, the City of Berlin, and theArizona, the largest steamships now in use, and I have also inquired in regard tosome of the largest sailing-ships, for instance, the James Nesbit, of 2,00 tons. Theirtopmast heads are from 112 to 128 or 129 feet above the surface of the water. Justhow far they would be above the keel I cannot state.

Mr. SINGLETON. I asked the question because you stated that the distance from thebottom of thr canal to the top of the tunnel would be 190 feet.

Mr. SHELnoUmiNn. No, sir; you ndsapprehended me. I said that the whole heightof the tunnel would be 168 feet from the bottom. That would give 140 feet above thsurface of the water and 28 feet of water in the canal. Now it has been determinedin reference to the Brooklyn bridge, that the height of the cables above high waterwas sufficient at 135 feet, and you see that the apex of this tunnel above the level willbe, 5 feet higher than the cables of the Brooklyn bridge above high water.

Mr. CONGER. When you speak of the height of the topmasts, do you mean thehighest point of a vese1 "

Mr. SuELiummN. Most large vessels have a mainmast, which is fastened to the deck.Then they have a topmast, which goes above that. Then they have above that againa top-gallant mast, and some have a small mast which is called a top royal. Themainmast and the topmast are contiected with the sides of the vessel by IMgIng.The cables and ropes that are connected with them are tarred and brought dwnthrough dead-eyes, and are themselves lashed and firmly fastened so that the topmastand tnainmast of a vessel being thus fixed to the sides of a vessel cannot be disturbedwith readiness, because if they are unlashed they cannot be readily lashed again,while all the masts above the topmast head are so arranged that they can be droppedin 15 minutes.

Mr. CONGER. Then you calculate merely for those spars that are a fixture in thevessel ?

Mr. 81ELBOURNE. Yes.Mr. HASKELL. When you run your canal up to where the tunnel commences, and

when yon get to tide-water level at the mouth of t lie tunnel, so that you call get drain-age by simply pumping the water into the end of the open canal, you wotlhi probablyhave but one dry section and one bulkhead between you anld tide-water, so that inorder to pump out the section at which you are at work, you would simply have topump over one Iblkhel t

Mr. 8HzLuOURNR. Precisely.Mr. HASKELL. Now you have :4 miles of haul in your tunnel, and I presume that all

the material which you have to excavate in the tu nel below tide-water level amd fora distance above tide-water level has to be carried back ant, and yon have got to ruilyour tide-water into the canal except the given dry section that you are working at.That Is, you allow the tide-water to follow you in. Then this material which you take

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

out from yo1r tunnel (is yoU progress towards the nioilth) has to lbe carried back outof the niouth, and you have got a haul of 31 miles each way from the center ?

Mir. !"MELBOURNE. Yes.Mir. I1ASIFLL. And the most of that haul would be done by railroad constructed in

the water or over the water, or else would be done by boats ?Mr. SIIELBOURNE. It will not he necessary to tadnit the water from the sea at all, or

to complete the canal up to the section which is being exvavated. In excavating be-low the water you must commence at the very middle of the tunnel and excavate thatfint, and all that you will have to do is to provide your drainage to the end of thetunnel ; or if you commence at the open end of the tunnel and excavate that, and letyour tide-water flow in, you can either remove tLe material on flatboats or by a rail-road before the water is let in.

Mr. HASKELL. Then you conclude that the hauling of the stuff out of your tunnelwould be done practically as cheap as the hauling ouit of a deep cut if it were an opencanal f

Mr. ri.noRuE. Certainly.Mr. HASKELL. Do you hold that in a deep cut in an open canal they would haul the

material for 3j miles rather than haul it over the sides if they were 100 feet high?Mr. SILLBOUtNH. Very likely. I should say, however, in regard to the open-cut

canal that in Mr. de Lesseps plan it is proposed to provide for .rainage on one sideand on the other by an artificial channel.

Mr. HASKELL. You hold that it would be as easy to haul your material 3j miles to themouth of the tunnel as it would be in an open cut to haul it over the sides of thecanal 100 feet deep ?

Mr. SHELBOURNE. Certainly.Mr. CoNGE. In regard to the approaches of the Gulf of San Bias, state what is the

depth of water at the point of the intersection of the canal and from there out todeep water, and state whether there are any obstructions in the gulf.

Mr. SUELnOURNE. None whatever. You come here (indicating on the map) within300 yards of the shore line, and there you have a depth of 30 feet of water.

Mr. CONGER. Does that depth of water continue all the way out?Mr. SHLBOURNE. From 30 feet depth of waternyou go to'the mouth of tile gulf,

where vou have 100 feet of water.Mr. 6ONGER. Are there any obstructions in the bay there?Mr. SHELBOURNE. No obstructions whatever.Mr. CoNcER. You say that on the other side there is a bar across the mouth of the

river which you propose to dredge fMr. SIHELBOUrJNE. Yes. It has 15 or 16 feet of water there, and the tide rises 16

feet. So that if you have 16 feet of water on the bar at low tide, and if the tide ordi-narily rises 15 feet then you have3l feet of water over the bar at high tide on the Pacificside. If vessels coming into the canal would wait till the water was two-thirds highthen there would not be any improvement at all needed in the bar or in the river,but if it were desired that vessels should go in and out at extreme low water thensome dIredginig across that bar would be required.

Mr. CONliEm. As far as the approaches on either side are concerned, what necessitywould there be for building an artificial harbor to protect vessels in coming to or goingout of the canal !

Mr. SI1gLIBORNE. Not a dollar would be required for any protection whatever.There is perfect protection on the Atlantic side. This interior harbor (indicating onthe map) is called the harbor of Mandingo, and the general expanse of water outsideis called the Gulf of San Bias. On the Pacific side we have offthe mouth of the Bay-ano River the island of (Chepillo, which would protect the mouth of that river fromany storms in the bay.

Mr. CONGERin. That makes it a safe harbor of entrance, does it?Mr. Sm.ELOURnNE. Yes; and, besides, that island is a very convenient place for the

erecttion of a light-house.Mr. HASKELL. What would lie the depth (if your greatest open cut outside of the

tunnel !Mr. Smium.nu)'n| . On tlis side (indicating on the map) 0 feet above the level of

the sea is the greatest depth, and as you come down (illustrating with his cane) youcome to low lnd.

Mr. HAHKELL. Then the depth is the mean between one foot and 190 feet for howlong a distance t

Mr. SH.ELUOUt'n . I (In not recollect the figures, lint I have given the one mile ofthis open cut excavation to ie at an average elevation of 110 feet, and in doing so Ihave tit it at 10 per cent. above the highest maxim, In estimating the quantitiesfor this route by an independent calculation of ny own on all the data that I couldget I have made the total excavation to be 46,000,0)0 cubic feet, which is 2 000,000cubic feet beyond the estimate made for that route by Wyse and Reclusn, wo pro-sented it formally before the Paris congress.

Mr. SINoLEmON. You stated p while ago that the number of cubic yards to be taken

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 87

from the tunnel would be about 17,000,000 less than the amount required in the exca-vations on the Panama route f

Mr. SHELBOURNE. Yes, on the excavation of a single section.Mr. SINGLETON. And your aggregate amounts to 46,00,000 cubic yards?Mr. SHELBOURNE. Precisely.Mr. SINGLETON. How does that compare with the aggregate on the Panama route ?Mr. SIELBOURir.. The total number of cubic yards of excavation on the Panama

route would be over 98,000,000.Mr. SINGLETON. A little more than double the excavation on the San Bias routeIMr. SHELBOURNE. Yes, moro than double. The estimates for the Nicaragua route

show the excavations to be 70,000,000 cubic yards, or about one-third of the estimatefor the Panama route.

Mr. CONGPER. How far is this San Bhas route from the Panama route ?Mr. SHELBOUNE. The Pacific end of it is only thirty miles from the Pacific end of

the Panama route, but on the Atlantic side, because of a considerable promontory hereindicatiug ou the map), the termini are about 100 miles apart.

STATEMENT OF MR. FREDERICK M. KELLEY.

Mr. FiiEDERnICK M. KELLEY, of New York, also made a statement in favor of theSan Bias route. He said that he had been engaged oi the question of anl interoceanic-canal for the last 29 years, and had spent a large fortune in the investigation of thesubject, and that no w he would like to have the government make a thorough ex-amination of that line from sea to sea, because it xas the shortest, cheapest, and inhis judgment the best line for an interoceanie eanal. He had consulted with shippingmerchants all over the world, and they all united in wanting one thing, and that wasa sea-level canal, no matter what its cost might be. A difference of thirty or forty orfifty millions of dollars between a sea-level canal and a canal with locks was of noconsequence. Ie wished to have the United States Government survey that routeand place the survey in charge of the War Department, because (after twenty-nineyears of experience) he (lid not believe that naval officers were tit and proper personsto make surveys, and to locate this canal and estimate its cost. With allrespect totheir intelligence and their ability to build ships and to sail them on the ocean, hebelieved that their ntter want of knowledge and experience in building railroads orcanals or other works on land rendered them unfit for that business. In expressingthat opinion, he expressed the opinion of nine-tenths of all the contractors and civilengineers and merchants and business men of this country. He repeated that hewould like to have the survey made under The charge of the War Department. Com-modore SclOridge had undertaken the survey of the San Bhns route in 17i, but he haidonly partially examined it. Conmmodore Selfridge had begun on the Atlantic side,and had gone as far as the summit, but he had not gone to the Pacific at all. Hemade the tunnel 10 miles long instead of 7, and in that he (Mr. Kelley) thought thatCommodore Selfridgo had made a great mistake. He might be right in it, but at allevents, what he had (lone had thrown a cloud over the San Jilas project, and now he(Mr. Kelley) simply wanted the government to come forward amd remove that cloud.That was all lie asked. He was not here from any mercenary motive. He believedthat Mr. ,le Lesaeps's project for building a eanal on the l'anama route would fail.

Mr. C,' xGEit, Do you claim to have any proprietary rights ou the San Bias route ?Mr. K.ILEY. None whatever.Mr. CON GPtEI. By negotiation or otherwise ?Mr. KELLEY.Y Nothing at all. I havtA no rights or claiiiis over the route at all. I

have no assurance froni any quarter that I will ever get back a dollar of what I havespent on it. I have mixed with nobody; have no partnership arrangement with any-body, and have no connection with any organization whatever.

Mr. ('ONGER. But you prosecuted this work yourself!Mr. KELLEY. Steadily and alone for 29 years, and I have expended $125,000 in cash

upon it. I may say that I have devoted my fortune and my time to that projcet. Ihave sent to the isthmus seven ditlrreut surveying parties at my own expense, and haveprocured throe governmental surveys. Th-result of all my laborandstudy isto convinceme that the San Blas route is the only practicable sea-level route between the twooceans, as gigantic and formidable as it may appear. The statement that the mount-ain through which the tunnel has to lie made contains anything but granite is amistake. The formation of that mountain is s)lid granite. The outlyinF stone istrap. The tunnel may require lining or it may not require lining, but estimates forthe whole work have been completed and the total expense is set dorln at $130,000,000.'That is adding 5 per cent. for contingencies, and all our esthates are nearly twice-as high as the estimates for the work on the Panama route or on the Nicaragua route,or any other route.

Mr. CoNGEa. How did you happen to go into this outerprise at first ?

88 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

Mr. KELLEY. When I was a boy I was fond of reading, and among the works thatI read were those of Baron von liumboldt, who studied this isthmus question as earlyas 1788. He says that a Spanish priest, residing at Novita on the headwaters of theAtrato and of the San Juan, dug a small canoe canal between the headwaters of theAtrato and the San Juan (onilyi miles apart), and at that early period buttgoes usedto come up from the Lower Pacific, from Chili and Peru, enter the San J ofm River andasend to its source, and that there their cargoes were discharged into the small canoeson this canal, and by them taken through this little canoe canal and put on board oflarge boats on tliq Atrto and taken from -there to the Atlantic Ocean. Thus therewas a water communication between the two oceans at that early period.

That statement struck my attention, and afterwards when California had been an-nexed to the United States and when the improvement of all these routes became im-portant, I resolved to have this little Raspadura canoe canal examined. So in 1852 Iemployed Mr. John C. Trautwine, of Philadelphia, a civil engineer, and he, commenc-in- at the Atlantic, ran a lhe of" survey through to the Pacific Ocean. some 320 milesin length, and he showed by instrumental measurement that this small Raspadura ca-nal did not exist, and that Baron von Humboldt wits entirely mistaken in his state-mei. instead of the isthmus being level at that point a spur of the Cordillerascrossed it at an elevation of 150 feet above the level of the sea. Disappointed, I de-termined to continue further surveys, and I kept on surveying during the years 1852,1853, 1854, and 155. During that period I sent into that country five survAying par-ties for the purpose of finding a practical line for a canal without locks, The resultof all these surveys in that valley was to show that the Atrato Truando line was the01ly pi aetical line for a canal without locks, gates, or dams. These plans. I took toEurfo e in 1855 and presented th-ru to the -first engineer and geographical societies ofParis, London, and Berlin, and also to the English and French Governments, witha view of having those governments unite with ours to make verifications of the plan,and also to construct the work. When I returned home in the spring of 1857, Mr.Buchanan was President, and notwithstanding the fact that while he was UnitedStates minister in London be approved of a joint survey by the three governments,and of makingthe canal international in its character, he declined when President toact with the English and French Governments. Then I procured an appropriationfrom Congress, and the government fitted out an expedition and put it in charge ofCaptain Craven of the Army, and in I&. they made a very thorough and exhaustiveexamination of that Atrato Truando route, substantially confirming the surveys of myengineers.

That brought it down to the time when the war bVoke out. I discontinued myefforts for a while on account of our troubles, but in 1864 1 resolved to have this shortSan Blas route surveyed, and I sent out a barometrical party to run a rapid line acrossthe isthmus for the purpose of procuring approximate data of height and distances.That proving satisfactory, I followed it up with a regular line of survey in the autumnof 18K4, with the results that I have placed before he committee.

Now, as to the data in the building of other tunmels. The Mount Cenis tunnel is 7miles 1,044 yards long, 25.84 feet wide, and about 20.65 feet higl. It is lined through-out with brick and stone. It was commenced in. 1868, and was finished in 1871. Duringthe first five years the work was driven and finished at the rate of 1,300 feet per year,but by means of improved machineoy, drilling apparatus, &o., this rate was increasedto 4,500 feet per year. The total cost of the work was $9 4* V400 which was at therate of $14 per cubic yard of rock, there being in the tunnel $ j,k3 cubic yards.

The St. Gothard tunnel is 9 miles 2,586 feet long. Its height and width are thesame as in the Mount Cenis tunnel. That work was completed in a little over sevenYears, at the rate- of 6,110 feet per year. It cost $9 per cubic yard, there being 1,1109,8Mcubic yards, and the total cost being about $10,000,00.

The San Blas tunnel will be 7 miles long, 80 feet wide at the surface of the water,and 140 feet high from canal bottom to crown of arch. The work cau be driven for-ward at the rate of 5,000 feet per year, so that it can bie completed in a little over sevenyears. The heading of the San Bias tunnel, containing 332,640 cubic yar-10, I haveestimated at $20 per cubic yard, and the break down on the part below' tte b'.dingwcontaining 10,090,080 cubic yards, I have estimated at 95 per cubic yard. Th openrock cutting there will be 15,011,219 cubic yards, which has been mtimsted at mr$1,50 to $2 pr cubio yard. Of earth excavation there will be 3,966,889ubic yards. &hecost of which is estimated at from 60 to 90 ments per cubic yml. Of masnry thwirawill be 54,446 000 cubic yards, which is estimated $15 per cubic yard. concrete isestimated at i7 per aubie yard, and the cost of pumping is estfiMad at $2000 .The total ooet is estimatea at $104,017,780--tbat is, supposing the tunnel shonlA re-quire no lining. But if the tunnel should require lining, to that amount there is to beadded about 30,000,0 0. Still, on soeount of the main backbone of the Cordillasbeing granite and outlying stone-trap, I do not believe that any lining will be re-quired.

Adjourned. /

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INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 89

STATEMENT OF DR. OWEN M. LONG.

WASHINGTON, April 17, 1860.Dr. OWLS M. LoNG appeared before the committee and made the following state-

mnet:I reside at present in *Washington. I have been a resident of Panama for nearly

eleven years. I have been familiar with all the exploring p.rie" that have beer, onthe isthmus during that time, and we have had tbhem alost constantly exploringsome section of the isthmus. I have been acquainted with a great Inany ef the ohoriginal adventurers, who have searched the isthmus for a route for a ship canal, andI have seen the report of everything that has been done by our own surveyors. Ihave always been tinder the impressiou that, as a gentleman stated here the other diy.the explorations made were made without any accurate result, and I do not thinkthere are capitalists to be found anywhere who would let their money go upoa suchdata as the different surveys have presented. I do not think there has been one coM-plote survey, not even including M. de Lesseps's recent one, although lie had severaleminent engineers. I feel satisfied that the surveys made by our own nav.A officershave not been what they should have been. I would iot like, of course, to giveany opinion as to the practicability of building a canal anywhere, but I think theseveral surveys that have been ..iade for the Bayano or San Blau route show that isthe best, being the shortest and nearest. That will necessitatet the building of atunnel.

By Mr. 0. TVR'YER:Question. How many surveys have been made of thie San Blas route I-Answer. I

think there have been four or five.Q. Were there not good corps of engineers employed in making those surveys ?-A,

The first survvyof that route wad made by a Frenchman. Then this company iu NewYork have made several other surveys since that time.

Q. Was there not a survey made there for the benefit of M. de Lemeps?-A. Notthat I know of. It was theNapipi-Atrato route that was surveyewi

Q. I am not talking abont the San Blas route particularly; I ant talking about th.difterent ronte.--A. I de not think M. de Lesseps has ever had a survey Wade of theSan Bias route.

Q. You state that yen do not think those surveys have been sufficiently accurate,and that there ought to be another survey; what reason have you to think they havenot been accurately made ?-A. One reason is that there has been such a variety ofopintdn among the different engineers; another is that it has been done too hastily.The engineers have coes down there with their corps of operatives and undertakento get the surveys through by a certain time. as they had to do in consequence of thewater.

Q. How long would it take to make a survey across there I-A. A survey has beenmade in a month or less than that, probably, bat very imperfectly, I shouMl think.

.It is oly about fifty miles across f -A. Not that, I think.SThen the di~anee within fifty miles -A. Within fifty miles.

By Mr. SLuGaLTuN [in the chair]:Q. I Onppese those were experimental lines that were run ?-A. Yes; exept the

line eatabliched by Commander Selfridge. I think he made his survey probably moreaccuratly and more with a view to permanency than any of the others.

By Mr. 0. TumnN :. You say you have lived there eleven years: is that region of thC 4. untry healthy,

or it dangerous for persons not eclimatid Y-A. All persons coming to the isthmus,no matter what part of it, have to undergo an acclimation, but by a Fttle care andmedicine they can pass through the ordeal very safely. The Pacific slope of the 4sth-mus it mush healthier than the Atlantic slope. I went there with a tsmily of six;we wer expoood, as a matter of course, to all malarial influences, but by watchingcarefully and tsking the symptoms as they developed themselves, I always kept myfamily well We had, perhaps, ten days of sickness the whole ten years we were there.

Q. What are the dangetous diseoss there that strangers are subject to; yellowfever or bilious fever or both I-A. Bilious fever. We have very little pure yellowfever there. I do not think I have heard of half a dozen eases on the isthmus since Iwent there.' In 1867, during the time of its virulence In the United States, there was4 great deal of it there, brought in mostly ffom the West Indies. Pussengers travelingaerew the istpmus would Ue en sick and would have to remain and would die inPanama.

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90 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

By Mr. SINGLETON:Q. You have had a good deal of experience in early life in the malarial region of the

Illinois River; are the atumnal diseases on the isthmus pretty much of the same kindas the autumnal fevers on the Illinois River in the early settlement of the country I-A. Yes, sir; and produced by the same cause and, as a matter of course, similar indetails only that in those warm latitudes the disease is more acute and dangerous.

Q. There is more vegetable decomposition there I-A. Yes, sir; the degree of malariais greater and the attack is more violent.

By Mr. CONGER:Q. Are you a physician ?-A. Yes, sir.Q. Were you on the isthmus in that capacity ?-A. Yes; I was acting as consul at

Panama, but I always had some few patients, parties passing through and not havingconfidence in the Spanish physicians. 1

Q. So that from your professional knowledge you were able to judge very well ofthe healthfulness of the country?-A. Yes.

By Mr. SINGLETON:Q. Was there a great deal of sickness among the natives f-A. Not so much as you

would suppose from their habits of life. They are like the Turks, they believe in fateand they do not use any means to keep disease away; they won't vaccinate a child ifthey can possibly avoid it; they won't use prophylactic medicine to ward off disease;they just wait until the disease comes and then trust to Providence for a cure. Thesickness of strangers generally occurs about the change of the season from wet to dry,or sice versa.

By Mr. 0. TunNER:Q. I suppose the natives live pretty much upon fruit ?-A, Yes, sir; mainly upon a

vegetable diet.Q. Are you a civil engineer 1-Ak No sir. In regard to healthfulness, the Pacific

slope has a very great advantage over the Atlantic sope. The sickness at Aspinwallis much more fatal than it is in Panama. We have a great deal of a very bad diseaseknown as the "pernicious fever"; it is almost equal to the yellow fever.

Q. Is that coutry densely populated I-A. No, sir.Q. About what is the population to the square mile ?-A. I do not know. There is

hardly any census taken. There are said to be 20,000 inhabitants in the State of Pan-ama, h ut"it is merely $uess-work. There is very little cultivation of the soil there.There is hardly a spot in the country that you can dignify with the name of a farm.

Q. Are there no foreigners settled there as farmers or planters I-A. There are oneor two districts where planters have settled. You cannot cultivate any crops in that-country that depend upon the certainty of labor. Labor is abundant, but the nativesthere are so eninently pious that they cannot be got to work steadily for a week if aholiday intervenes, even though your crop should be lost; and they have a great manyholidays.

By Mr. SINGLETON:

Q. What is the general topography of the country I-A. It. is uneven, but it canhardly be called mountainous. There is very ILttle level surface in Southern or EasternPanama. Up in the region of Chiriqui, where these two surveys are '3eing made byour ships, there is a fine section of country en each side of the mountain, very muchlike our Illinois prairie, but there is no means of getting across the mountain; theroads are almost impassable, and the region is so cut off from intercourse with the out-side world that very few people go there to settle.

Q. Do the natives produce enough to live on 1.-A. Yes; they produce an abundanceof what they require. They could dispense with a great many things that they usenow.

By Mr. Co.GmR:Q. What is their food generally I-A. The plantain, the bananaa, ahd the sweet pota-

toe, and roots of that class. They also raise pigs, turkeys and everything of that kind,but their powers of cultivation are very limited; they seldom have more than a quarterof an acre under cultivation; that Is the extent of their capacity to cultivate.

By Mr. SINGLETON:

rQ. What do they feed their pigs on ?-.A. They raise a little corn, but for the mostpart the pigs take care of theniselves-thy eat grass.

Q. Is there much mast I-A. No mast at all; there is no oak timber in *bat country.The grass makes pretty good beef in the wet season, but not so good in the dry.

By Mr. CoNonR:Q. Are there any sheep I-A. There are no sheep raised there. The sheep are bought

from California.

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INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 91

By Mr. SINGLETON:Q. "Wher do the people in the towns get their supplies ?-A. From San Francisco

and New York. There are two or three towns on the railroad which get their sup-plies by railroad; the supplies of other towns are brought from California.

By Mr. 0. TURNER:Q. They do not use any animal food there, I suppose f-A. 0, yes, they have beef

and pork, and fish, in abundance. A native ean earn ninety cents a day in cash byworking on the railroad, and as soon as he makes four or five dollars he has about asmuch as he has use for.

By Mr. CoNGER:Q. Of what race is the population of that country generally; Spanish, Indian or

negro f-A. It is mixed. There are sone pure Spaniards, very few, however; thenthere is the Spanish negro, and the Jamaica negro has pushed his way into thatcountry since the abolition of slavery. You can see all the varieties of the human racein the streets of Panama.

Q. You speak of their frequent holidays; they are mostly Catholics are they not I-A. Yes, sir. They will drop anything to attend tothe feasts and festivals of the ch4rch.

By Mr. SINGLETON:

Q. Do all the different races there intermarry ?-A. No; the foreign element formsa separate and independent community,

Q. You mean the whites I-A. The whites.By Mr. CONGER:

Q Is there any particular product of that state which is exported I-A. Y(,s, sir.When I wept there first there was over a million and a half dollars' worth of rubberexported every year from the isthmus, but the supply has been exhausted. Later theydiscovered the usefulness of the ivory nut; it has taken the place of rubber as an arti-cle of export, and probably two million dollars of it a year is exported from the isthmus.There are also a great many hides shipped from the isthmus, but they are brought infrom different directions. A great niany ivory-nuts are brought from Bolivia and froma portion of Peru. There is more rubber brought now from Central America andshipped from Panama than ever before; the supply in that region is not yet exhaustedas it is in Panama. Some years ago a number of negroes came across the country andwent into the rubber region and cut down the trees so as to make a big haul of it atonce, and that, of course, exhausted the supply.

By Mr. 0. TURNER:

Q. Is there any security in that country among the natives for life aid property?Have they any laws that are enforced I-A. There are plenty of laws but they are notenforced.

Q. Is there any security for the life and property of a man traveling among thenatives ?-A. 0, yes, anywhere in the country there is ample security; you have noth-ing to fear in the country, but in the little towns you will often find scamps and scal-awags who would take you by the throat for five cents.

By Mr. SINGLETON:Q. We have had very little of the trade of that region for the last ten or twelve years,

I believe ?-A. Very little. Most of it has gone to England. There are no Anericanvessels in that trade except those of the Pacific Mail Steaiship Company. Europehas monopolized nearly the whole trade of 8outh Ameriba, but that hae been rapidlychanging during the last four or five years.

Q. The hides that you speak of having been exported were not sent to this country,I suppose ?-A. Yes, sir; most of them were sent to this country.

By Mr. HASKzfLL :Q. Has the change that you say has occurred within the past four or five years been

in favor of the United States I-A. Yes; there has been a largely increased introductionof articles of American manufacture. Up to about 1873 or 1874 every yard of cottonor woolen manufacture used there came from England, Germany, or France, but nowthere is a large quantity of United States manufactures going south for consumption.

Q. Are our commercial agents looking after the trade of that country more or lessI-A. Yea, they are all through that country now.

Q. And they ship largely-by the Pacific Mail Steamship line f-A. Yes, sir; every-thing that goes to or comes from New York pass over that route. There ia no othermeans of transportation except some small schooners that do not amount to much,although certain articles of production are shipped by them.

Q. But ont the coast, south of Panama, there are no American steamship lines-to Valpmaito and Calljs for instance f-A. No; none from Panama. Sometimes therewill be one or two American sh1ip in the curse of a year, loaded with coal.

92 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

Q. Would not a line of vessels there do a large trade in bringing in manufacturedgoods to be exchanged for the products of thecountry I-A. Yes; most of the productsof the southern region, below Callao, at least, come up acrossthe isthmus. The balanceof the trade passes through the Straits of Magellan. There is a line running fromCallao to Liverpool and from Calao to Panama, the Pacific Steam Navigation Com-pany.

Q. Is there not a great deal of cinchona produced there I-A. Yes, sir; that comesfrom Bolivia, but the supply is becoming exhausted. In their eagerness to obtain a.much as possible of the native products of that character they never think of lookingto the future; they try to get all they can at once and so they destroy the supply.The British have become so perfectly satisfied of the destruction of the trees therethat I understand they are now making large plantations somewhere in India.

Q. During your stay in Panama as consul, were you confined to the port, or did yougo through the country south of that t-A. No, sir; I have been down as far as Limaby water.

Q. But you never went through the interior of the country ?-A. No, sir.Q. Did you ever go up the Orinoco River, which is said to have two or three thou-

sand miles of navigation f-A. No, sir; that is on the other side. I saw a companyof emigrauts in Ne* Orleans, just after the war, on their way to the Orinoco country.They were leaving the United States with the idea that they could find a better couin-try, but nearly all of them perished. Nearly all tbose rivers extend into the Cordil-leras. There is an American Company up there building a railroad from the capitalof Bolivia to the Orinoco.

Q. That is said to he a very productive country, equal to our Mississippi and Illinoisbottom lands ?--A. 0, yes; it, is rich beyoud description.

Q. We have had some Americau companies running vessels up that river, have wenot T-A. I believe so, but I have no official or personal knowledge of that fact. TheOrinoco runs due east across the country from the Andes and flows into the Atlantic.

Q. What were the general average charges upon American vessels coming into theport of Panama while you were consul there ?-A. Panama is a free port, so there aeno port charges.

Q. But American vessels always pay certain charges to the American consl, do theynot I-A, Yes, sir; the consul receives certain fees for certain duties. They are regu-lated by the tonnage. The largest sized vessels in the trade would have to pay feesto the amount of ahout $50.

Q. Are foreign vessels exempt from those charges ?-A. They are exempt folm pay-ing any fees to the American consul, but they pay fees to the English consul, Thosefees, however, are not near so high as those which American vessels have to pay. Irecollect once having gone into the British consulate to get my quarterly account offees signed by the consul; the fees for the quarter amounted to about $450, and hesaid, "Surely, you don't got as much as that." I told him yes; that the fees everyquarter amounted to about the same, and he remarked, "We don't get $ in a year."

Q. On the Atlantic side, along up the coast of Spanish Honduras and the Balize,have we had any American vessels rtmning during your consulate ?-A. None, exceptsome small coasters. A gentleman named Downs, from Providence, R. I., has a littlesteamer and one or two small schooners that he runs up into that region, and he picksup a good deal of freight which he brings to Aspinwall, and ships by the Pacific MailSteamship line.Q. But we have had no American hssels running there large enough to engage in

the carrying of mahogany and other valuable woo dst-A. None that Ihave heard of.Q. That would be an important trade, would it not t-A. Yes, sir. It would not do

to have the vessels too large, because you could not get them up the rivera.Q. But with vessels of a proper size would It not be a valuable trade ?-A. Yes, the

valuable woods are in groat variety and abundance. There used to be a great dealof mahogany sent from Panama, but the trees are all cut down.

Q. I suppose that you have not traversed the country sufflciently to really state ofyour own personal knowledge what the general products are of the country north andsouth of Panama I-A. The products of Panama are rubber, ivory-nuts, hides, andbark. There are a great many articles imported into Panama from Bolivia, Ecuadortand Pern, which are intended for shipment; there is a vast quantity of Panama hats,for instance.

Q. Where are those manufactured I-A. They are manufactured in a certain sectionin Ecuador. The fluest hats can only be manufactured In the night by moonlight.The material has to be hidden from the sun lost it should be dried up and renderedunfit for fine work.

Q. What Is the straw produced tom --A. It appears to be a ipecies of wild grasswhich grows in that particular section of the country.

Q. Is there anything else that you desire to state which you think would be of in-terest to the con mittee f-A. I wish to state in regard to this reported dlnrybou eof the amicable relations heretofore existing between the United States aad C0omba

/A

* .~,, -

INTE OCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

that I do not think there is any truth in it at all, because the people there look up tothe United States all the time; they swear by them, they believe that two of thegreatest men that ever lived were Washington and Bolivar, and they never mentionthe one name without mentioning the other. This hue and cry that has been raisedlately in Panama is the result of an intrigue made by the party out of power in orderto get in. They are never satisfied down there unless they have a revolution on hand.

Q. Then you think there is no dissatisfaction on the part of the people there wilany action or declaration made by the United States ?-A. I don't believe there is anyat all; they are all in favor of the Monroe doctrine down there.

Adjourned.

WA1S1INGTOIN, April 26, 1S80.Mr. J. LAWRENCIE, SMrTH, of Louisville, Ky., appeared before the committee, by re-

quest, and made the following statement:Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I come before you quite unexpectedly, although I

have taken a good deal of interest and have had some special opportunity of acquiringinformation in regard to the subject which you are investigating. In order to presentmy views with the least possible expenditure of time, I will read portions of a reportwhich I prepared, after my return from the Paris congress, for the information of theChamber of Commerce of San Francisco, interpolating such comments as may occurto me while I read; and afterwards I shall be pleased-to answer any questions thatyou may desire to ask.

I had been first invited by the French commission to participate in the congress,and was afterwards requested by the city and county of San Francisco, and the C'ham-ber of Commerce of the same city, to represent them in that booty.

I went into the congresswith the full sense of the magnitude of the contemplatedenterprise, and desirous to do what I could to advance the interest of some feasiblerotue. How far my views were affected or altered by the discussion will be seen inthe course of my remarks.

Having been appointed vice-president of the committee on navigation and meteorol-ogy, and attending all the meetings of that committee and many of the meetingsof the other committees--especially that on technology--a good opportunity was af-forded of weighing well all points connected with the subject.

The congress had not accomplished more than two-thirds its session when I feltconvinced that it could not come to a practical conclusion. And when it did finallycome to what seemed to be a positive selection of a route, it appeared that at leastone-half the afliruative vote was based on a mere sentiment not to oppose an enter-prise so earnestly pressed by that most remarkable man M. Lesseps.

But, notwithstanding this vote, my first convictions have been fully sustained bythe' virtual, if rut actual, abandonment of the route they decided upon, for the sub.scriptions made last surhimer were returned to the subscribers.

Perhaps no congress ever asembled for the elucidation of an important enterprisecomposed of more able and earnest men than were assembled on the occasion. Theycame with honest views, and gave their time and labor most willingly and unremit-tingly. There were delegates from twenty-five countries, and among them were to befoundsome of the ablest engineers from England, France, Spain, RIussia, Germany,Holland, the United States, and other countries. Associated with them were the mostcompetent financiers technologists, and scientists, well acquainted with every subjectthat could conduce to a critical examination of meteorological and hydrographicalquestions that might arise in the discussions.

It is true that the societies and associations of France were much more numerouslyrepresented than those of other countries, constituting numercially more than one-half of the representatives present in the congress; but this much we must say thatamong them were men of great ability, integrity, and learning, many of them h;ldingpositions of great responsibility and trust.

As already stated, I went into the congress with a somewhat enthusiastic idea thatsomething of great importance would be accomplished, in which all nations were toparticipate an gve their hearty co-operation and support. It soon, however, becameapgantto m that the enterprise to be-discussed and entered upon was simply a pri-Val: undertaking to construct a canal, with all the importance attached to it of anInternational character, about which no Intertattonal arrangements or treaties hadbeen made so that the term IIinternational" was a misnomer, and the route mostfavored an 4 ultimately adopted was already granted exclusively to a railroad companylong in existence and actively engaged in transporting mehandlse and passengersacross the I tlum s.

It sesiid to be taken for granted that these were small matters and could be easilysettled after the route was selected. This last view I did not adopt, for it appeared

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

plain to me that unless satisfactory international treaties could be made in regard tothis interoceanic canal, and all diflt.ulties in regard to right of way were removed,capital was too timid to he forthcoming for any route, however feasible in a materialpoint of view. It is true that some of the routes discussed had not the objection inregard to the right of way, but the other difficulty bore equally strong on them; more-over, my American ideas made me feel that it was exceedingly doubtful if any engage-mient could be made with our government unless we had it all our own way. I, how-ever, followed closely the discussions and reports. In the latter we had much valua-ble information, of which it is not my oljeet he e to speak. The conclusions based onsome of These reports I considered erroneous, especially the one in regurd to the amountof tonnage that would pass through the canal ; for, ini myjudgment, many of the largeclipper ships engaged in the Chinese and Japanese trade, of 2,000 tons, say, won dhardly come across into the treacherous calms of the Panama Bay, and pay $3 per ton,in all '$6,000 (159), to cross from Panama to Colon, instead of keeing to the open sea,and sailing around Cape Horn.

In the committee of which I formed a member, namely, the committee on naviga-tion, questions had constantly to be propounded to the other conmittecs to enable usto decide some of the most important points under consideration. So far as regardsthe sections and depth of the canal, these could be readily decided by a knowledge ofthe character of the vessels engaged in the interoceanic navigation. But withoutknowing whether or not the canal would be with or without locks, with or withouttunnels, our hscussion necessarily took a wide range. Then we (lid not know whateffect local fills of water would have upon the amount of water in the canal, and thecurrents that might consequently be formed. In discussing a canal with locks, thetin*e required for opening and closing the locks was an important point, yet there wasconsiderable difference of opinion, ranging from twenty-five minutes to one hour,

It was, however, decided that, in the case of adopting a canal with locks, the sys-tem should be a double one, and their number and arrangement be such as to allow offifty vessels passing each way in the canal at the spane time, and this committee con-idercd it pertilctly feasible to employ successfully an intoroceauic canal with locks.

This character of canal was thought to be very repugnant to ship captains, and thatit would take a long while to overcome this repugrfance.

Jn discussing the navigation in a sea-level canal, with the necessary long tunnel,many important points had to be left entirely unsettled. First of all, it was madevery clear that the present system of towing could not be adopted to pass the vesselssafely through the tunnel i and when it was evident that vessels passing in differentdirections, with, in many instances, a current in the tunnel, the problem became moreobscure; and when we would often have to add to this vapor from the steamers, andthe still unsolved method of illuminating the tunnel, the committee had simply toleave these practical difficulties to future discoveries.

Other important points considered were in connection with the harbors and regionof calms, and while the definite information desired could not be obtained, it was wellestablished that the calnms ou the Pacific side of the Isthmus were frequent and pro-iracted.

The conclusions of this committee were that a canal with locks ought not to beadopted, except that it was demonstrated that a canal sealevel was impossible; andthat a canal with tunnels should be avoided, except the accumulations of technicaldifficulties and vast increase of expense rendered a canal with an open cut practicallyimpossible.

In this conclusion, the tunnel in either the Panama or the San BIas route was to beabout one hundred and fifteen feet to the roof of the arch above the level of the water.

In reward to one point in connection with the canal with locks I differed from theconclusion of the committee, vizI that there should be a triple parallel system oflocks instead of a duble one; for if constant navigation was to be expected both ways,

two systems of locks would be in constant use; an'1 in case of accident t either ofthese, navigation would be stopped in one diroctica unless there was a third system torelieve that stoppage.

It was in the committee on technology that the battle of the canal was fought be-tween the advocates of the different routee, which were the Tehuantepec, Nicaragua,and several routes on the isthmus. It was principally, however, between what isknown as the Wyse and Reclus Panama and the Ncarasgua routes that the contestsettled. In fact after many meetings of this'committee and subcommittees, it was atlast decided to discuss the question on the basis of the Panama route, without looks,at a cost of (1,200,000100 francs) $240,000 000, andthe Nicaragua route, with looks, at(900,000,000 francs) $180,000,000, to comiprise all expense of construction, explorationand keeping in order. This proposition was madehby M. de Fonroy (,33), who desiresto bring to a conclusion the protracted debate. This proposition was unanimouslyalopted by the committee.

As there have been so many various statements and communications made to thepublic journals about the cost of these canals, I will give the total cost of the variousoutes, as made out by the subcoaimlttoe and adopted by the congress (326 and 451.)

;I -L

Coast of different routes.

I~iC. 4 2

Designation of r s-

Lclt.Nature of canal. Anthem. '43

Imams Mile.~ yrs. Days.Teahmmtepec ............... Locks .................. Shufeldt & Fuerte ................... - 174 120 .............................................. 12

icaagua ............. Locks ......-............... Lull & Menocal .................. 181 17 ...... 8 $180,000,000 4jLocks ....................... Blanehet...... ...... ..... ...... ..----...--

Locks ...................... Lull & Menocal .................- 25 t 8 174,000,000 200,200, 2o......... Sea-level .................... Wyso & Reclus*. ................ . 45 1 214, 00 000 $m 000, 000 240,000,000 2Loc.......................... do ............................ 13 14, , 000 140,000, 2

K el -------e ...... 14..02 0 e . ....................SaBas................... Se-ee ... Wye & elus ........ ............. 33 1 9 1 5,0,,0 8,0,0

.Atrato-Naplpi ................. do 1 -. . 0.............0, 000) 220,000,000 3

• _ _ -- _NoT -Expense of piloting and towing proportioned to length of the canal. -__This has been since changed to a canal with open cut of about 280 feet and no tunnel.

ol

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

These are the exact figures of the report, except, that the kilometers have been re-duced to miles and the francs to dollars, at five francs to the dollar. Whether or notthese statements are to be relied on it is impossible to say, and when we see how veryfar wrong the estimates of the engineers were on the St. Gothard tunnel, a very muchsimpler problem than the canal, we are inclined to believe that a ood guess, providedit be a high figure, will give us as fair an idea of the amount of money that will berequired to put through the enterprise.

A canal without locks was considered possible, but a lock at the Pacific extremitywould be necesary-that it would be absolutely necessary to prevent the waters ofthe Chagres River overflowing the canal; for there would be but one outlet-that atthe Atlantic Ocean-and the velocity of the current in the canal would suspend navi-

ation. To obviate this, MM. Wyse and Reclus propose turning the water of that rivery a dam about one mile long and one hundred and twenty-four feet high, and then

allow the accumulated waters to flow gradually into the canal. When the committeeobjected to this, the same engineers then had another project, viz, to make a supple-mentary canal where it was necesmtry, and discharge the excess of the water by that.But this did not yet suit the committee, for this stupendous, unheard-of da.u terrifiedthe committee before it was constructed. Six hundred millions of cubic meters ofwater, suspended at that height, might well create alarm in passing vessels. So theyfinally suggested to dig a new bed to the Chagres River, or rather enlarge the presentbed along the border of the canal sufficient to drain off the water as it accumulated,and thus prevent its overflowing the canal. This sufficient size was not krown, butthe committee supposed it might cost $8,000,000. In conclusion, the committee decidedthat by the construction of one lock on the Pacific, and preventing any overflow ofthe river into the canal, the Panama route presented practical conditions for the con-struction of the canal. The total cost of its construction would be $214,000,000, andthat the annual cost of keeping it in order would be about the same as tho Nicaraguaroute, making the total cost of $240,000 900.

I have gone thus much into the detail lp of the Panama route, because it was the onedecided upon by the majority of the members of the congress as the one to be under-taken.

The committee who reported to the congress said that the Nicaragua route wassatisfactory in its technological points, but on account of the volcanic nature of thecountry through which it must pass, the least oscillation of the soil would inevitablyproduce an effect upon the masonry of the locks which might prevent the operationof the gates, so that the navigation through it would be constantly threatened withmore or less prolonged interruption. Other objections were also made in connectionwith the harbor at Greytown, the length of the canal, and consequent length of timerequired to traverse it..

But it is useless for me to go farther into the discussion of the details of these re-spective routes, as they have been set forth by those better acquainted with the sub-ject than myself. My opinions of these respective routes were of a very decided natureafter hearing the discussions on the subject.

In the case of the Panama route:First.-Could the navigation of sailing vessels or steamers be carried on in a tunnel

of the size and description decided on ? And if the tunnel was abandoned, and anopen cut made about 300 feet high, and even supported by the stupendous masonry,thirty meters wide at the base (about 100 feet), as stated by M. Ruelle (331), couldit be constructed with perfect safety to navigation?

&eond.-Could the enormous excavation in the alluvial and marshy soil of thattropical region (making a cut 230 feet wide at the water level and 28 feet deep) benade without jeopardizing 'the lives of the laborers, the larger portion of whom

woid have to le brought from other countries?Third.-Could the rains and floods of this region -be prevented from rendering this

canal unserviceable for a greater or less length of time? I know that this last objec-tion was attempted to be obviated, but how I Why, by schemes devised in the com-mittee room, without any positive knowledge as to whether they could or wouldanswer the ends desired.

M. Menocal, in the congress, made very positive statements of the immense andsudden floods in the Chagres River, and the recent storms during the latter part oflast month* verify his statements in every particular, the waters of the river havingrisen at Matachiu'forty feet above low-water mark, overflowing and seriously inj aringboth the bridges and the track of the Panama Railroad; and it is a well-known factthat, in the region of Aspinwall, annual storms occur, more or less disastrous, and arecent correspondent from that region w-tes: "go far as the weather is concerned, thislatest experience is only a repetition of an almost yearly occurrence for the past twenty-five years."

It was stated by Sir John Hawkshaw (263) that if the quantity of water was equalto what M. Menocal attributed to the Chagres River during the great and sudden

* Kovmber, IT./

- -~~ A.~ - o '.z.'~h

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 97

freshets, the water would fill the entire section of the projected tunnel; and, from thesame cause, the construction of the canal would be delayed indefinitely by the necessityof keeping the trenches dry.

Fourth.-Most imperfect information as to the duration and the extent of the zoneof calms on the west coast of the isthmus was furnished, which, from my standpoint,was one of the most important subjects for the consideration of the committee on navi-gation.

Without going more into detail of my views of this route, enough has been said toshow why ico d not vote for its construction without first having much greaterlight on the subject.Mr. CONGv.R, In making the final decision, how was the vote in the congress dis-

tributed among the representatives of different countries so as to give a majority infavor of the Panama route I

The WITxEss. There was a very large vote of local French members, and there wasalso a large number of those present who voted for that route because they regardedit as a feasible route, one on which the canal could be constructed by skillful engi-neers at some cost or other. Then, again, I think that a large portion of the vote wasgiven as a matter of sentiment.

Mr. CoNuwa. The congress was composed of representatives, or supposed represent-atives, of different countries?

The WITNESS. Yes.Mr. CoNwGn. And those representatives voted as individuals, without regard to an

excess of numbers from any particular country ?The W LTN eFS,4. Yes.Mr. C(,w;I:. And there was an excess of French representatives from FranceThe Wir.xLs. Yes; I suppose that more than one-half, or at least fully one-half,

of the meniliers of the congress were French.Mr. Co0N-R. Did the vote in favor of the Panama route come from the representa-

tives of all the different countries, or was the decision made principally by the Frenchvote I

The WITNESS. 0, the question was decided principally by the French votes. A fewof them voted in the negative, more from a sense of delicacy that from anything else.They considered that if they abstained from voting it was like voting in the negative.When each man's name was called he responded either, 1I vote aye," or "I vote no,"or "I abstain from voting."

Mr. CONGFR. Are the v.6s of the representatives of the different countries tabu-lated or set forth in any form in the report of the proceedings

The WiTxRss. Yes; all that is in the minutes.A word now in regard to the objections of the Nicaragua mute, as they impressed

my mind:iArst.-The length of the route appeared to me a great objection, and would be so

considered by all navigators.&wond.-Seventeen locks with triple ebamberb are required, which, with the first

objection and the enormous toll required, may drive away vessels from using it. For,say what we may about the ease with which locks can be managed, it is a known factthat the few single large ship-locks at Amsterdam and elsewhere require the mostskillful superintendence to prevent accident to vessel, or look, or both, and able engi-neers are always near to inspect and supervise their operation.

Third.-There is no good harbor at either end of the route, and, as to the one atGroytown, we have no positive data as to how a good harbor could be constructed.The open roadstead on the Pacific could doubtless be better managed and made toserve all necessary purposes.

On the earthquake question I have nothing to say, as it is an undetermined qnestiolas to how far the disturbance would affect subsurface structures, as locks.

If the surface is disturbed as it was only a few months ago 200 miles north, at SanSalvador I think, we do not know what would be the effect on these locks. A verylittle disturbance would render the gates unserviceable, If they had 50 vessels lookedup there for three or four days on account of a broken or i~nuret gate, I do not thinkthat those vessels would try that route again. A great difficulty is the uncertainty.The question of the volcanic character of the country down there was diset ssed in thecongrasa, and it is a curious fact in regard to the Isthmus of Panama that while onewould suppose that a narrow stri of land like that. connecting the two cenr inent4A,and in th at volcanic latitude, wou lbe subject to volcanic disturbances, yet we knowthat for seven hundred years there has been not the slightest disturbance on the isth-inns, whereas such disturbances are very frequent along the Nicaragua route. Thatfact was insisteol upon by the advocates of the Panama route as a strong point in itsfavor, and a strong objection to the Nicaragua route.

The character of veosls that would traverse the canal was discussed, and it was theunanimous opinion that the questions of navigation must be settled as if we weredealing alone with sailing vesels. Steamers or mixed vessels cannot be expected to

7 Nr.NT

98 INTEROCEAIC SHIP CANAL.

-carry the heavy freight of cheap products and pay the large amount of toll required.The vessels in this trade are fitted for long voyages, and there are no facilities of coal-ing en route except at very great expense. Moreover, as the canal must be constructedfor all time, we must study the prospective character of our ships. At the present time,it is true, steamships have increased largely in the number, and are still increasing,but this cannot be carried on indefinitely, for the reason that the extended nse of coalin the various manufhctures and metallurgic operations and other arts in civilized lifeis already being felt by the sources of coal supply, and an increased consumption forthe next fifty years equal to that of the past fifty years will, in my opinion, so affectthe price of coal that the inroad of steamships on sailing vessels will be stopped, if thisevent does not take place before. The sun is the great motive power of these twoclasses of vessels. His stored-up energy during past ages, in the form of coal, suppliesthe motive power to the steanship,but it is so hidden and buried beneath the surfaceof the earth that a great amount of labor and capital is required to bring it within ourreach. The case is different with the present energy of the sun, for he makes theatmosphere his swift messenger of force, and at his pleasure creates the soft zephyr,the stiff breeze, or the devastating hurricane. And this force costs the seamen nothingwith which to fill the stretched canvas of their ships ; it is as free as the air itself, andthis force will be true to us so long as man inhabits the globe and the atmosphereendures.

I have called attention to this subject from the fact that further on I will attempt toshow that The amomt of tonnage that is expected to pass the canal is greater than iswarranted by facts connected with the navigation of ships w which, in carrying cheaperproducts, will not use the canal even with the certainty of a prolonged voyage.

Mr. SINGLETON. You refer to an overestimate of the tonnage. Have you any esti-mate of your own I

The WiTwEss. No; I have no estimate, because that would have to be based uponthe individual vessels. I have made a calculation upon the basis of some figures ob-tained from the Chamber of Commerce at Liverpool, apply ing only to sailing vessels.Sailing vessels, clippers, are principally used now in the commerce between China andLiverpool, and between San Francisco and Liverpool, as there are very few steamersmaking these lon, trips. I have based my calculation upon the idea that the sailingvessels, which would form the major part of the tonnage passing between the Pacificand the Atlantic, will not use a canal on account of the ca ins to which I have alreadyreferred, on account of the greater cost of going by the isthmus than around the cape,which fact I will show you by some figures directly.

There is constant mention in the papers, and I have no doubt it has reached thiscommittee, of the Suez Canal as the prototype of this enterprise. Gentlemen say,"Look at the Suez Canal and see what has been done there." The truth is, as I shallattempt to show you, that there is no parallel between th) two projects, and I askparticular attention to that, as the comparison is apt to be made in a deceptive manner.M. Do Lesseps undertook to construct the Suez Canal, and he did so successfully, andit has proved to be of vast benefit to commerce, especially to the English commerce,for I have seen it stated that if England were to take her commerce away the canalwould not last a decade. M. De Lesseps did undertake to construct that canal, andhe at the sane time promised the Khedive that Egypt would hold the key to the com-mer'e of the whole world, and that the equilibrium of all the powers of the earthwould be in the hands of the Khedive. The canal was constructed, and what has beenthe result so far as Egypt is concerned I Simply that the commerce goes by her.Formerly the commerce went up the Nile. The Grand Vizior was opposed to the con-struction of the canal at first, but at last he was induced to grant the right to run itfrom Port Said to the Red Sea. A former Caliph objected to a construction of a pas-sage for ships there, saying, "If I make a canal there it will be used by the barbarian",bit it will be of no use to me;" and I think we might say the same thing in regard tothe proposed canal across the Isthmus of Panania. The Suez Canal is undoubtedlysuccesstul, except as to Port Said. That port is constantly filling up aid they arecompelled to keep a dredge of one thousand horse-power ovingcontinually bac andforth to keep the channel open, and they believe that ultimately they will he compelledto throw up a dike about 2U miles to the south to prevent the imid from the Nile fromfilling up the port. The Nile brings down its silt (which has nade the delta), and asthe silt is discharged at the mouth of the Nile it is thrown off toward the right andinto Port Said, so that it costs a great deal to keep that port open. That however isa minor point.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand yon to say that while the Suez Canal is patronizedby steam-vessels, a canal through the American isthmus would have to depend uponsailing-vessels for its patronage.

The WITNEBS. Yes, principally; that is, for the Eastern trade.The CiRAlienrAN. What reason can you give why a different elam of vesels should

patronize the American canal from those which use the Suez Canal IThe W iTmss. One reason is that there is a line of convenient coaling stations all

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. M,

the way from England to the countries which are reached through the Suez CanalAnother reason is the character of the freights. The freights carried through theSuez Canal are not the cheap bulky articles of commerce; they are above the averagein value-principally manufactured articles. Another reason is that it is impossibleto use sailing-vessels on the Suez route, on account of the Red Sea being a sea ofcalm.

The CHAIRMAN. What is meant by mixed vessels?The WITNESS. They are vessels having a small engine attached, which is not relied

upon all the time for propulsion, but is used occasionally. The sails are relied uponfor the most part, but if there is a head wind the sails are furled and the vessel makesa few miles an hour by the use of this small engine.

The CHA AxN. Would such a class of vessels be serviceable in the trade betweenthis country and Asia?

The WITNESS. No; the distance is too great. The clippers that are used in thattrade now make their trips so regularly that the others would not be able to competewith them.

The CHAIMAN. Are not stealn-vessels replacing sailing-vessels in trade to a largeextent?

The WiTNESs. They are in certain direction.-, but they are not replacing them inthe great commerce of the world. The best way of investigating that question is to,go into the docks at a great port like Liverpool and look around you. There you willsee a great many steamers, of course, but you only find a steamer here and there iicomparison with the number of vessels with masts. The original cost of a steam-ves-sel is much greater than that of a sailing-vesol, and the cost of equiping and hailinga steam-vessel is, of course, much greater.

Mr. 0. TURNER. Please state the facts by which you are led to the conclusion thatit would be cheaper to go around Cape Horn than to pass through the canal if it wereconstructed.

The WITNSS. Very much was said in regard to this interoceanic enterprise beingin some sort a parallel to the construction of the Suez Canal, and much encouragementwas attempted to be derived from the successful accomplishment of the latter; but Ishall attempt to show that but little encouragement is to bc had from the Suez Canal,which, by the by, has cost about double the original estimate.

First. The sovereign of the country through which the Suez Canal passes was actu-ally the undertaker of the enterprise, with money advanced by him ; Egypt then coin-manding a good and extended credit. French capitalists principally furnished theresidue of funds required. In the case of the interoceanie canal not one of the govern-ments through whose territory it will pass can furnish the least material aid or stimu.-late the work as the Khedive of Egypt (lid his.

Secondly. Egypt furnished a su perabundunce of native labor, acclimated and aeus.tomed to.-most laorious work, and the governor of Egypt could, by force or otherwise,completely control that labor. Central America and the, isthmus, especially the latter,have neither the labor nor means to compel the same, and those laborers who mightbe obtained have all the indolence of half-civilized natives of tropical L'ontries; sothat the bulk of the labor would have to be brought from other countries, and doubt-les wild soon become victims to the pestilential mature of the work.

Thirdly. The vessels navigating the Suez Canal are almost exclusively steamers ormixel ships. The interoceanic tust look principally to the purely sailing-ships tofurnish its patronage.

Were it necessary, I might point out other differences, but the above will show thatwe have to study the interoceauic canal without the aid of any previous undertakingof the kind.

On first participating in the congress, I was strongly in favor of the constructionof the canal, if it turned out that a feasible route cou l be determined upon.

Since then, and after careful study, my views have changed on this subject, and Iam of the opinion that for the present the United States should leave it severely alone.

Why should the United States have anything to do with a stupendous canal or rail-road in a foreign country, one or two thousand miles from her own territory? It iscertainly opposed to the principles and practice of this government.

If this enterprise is guaranteed ia common with other nations, it must be dlno bya very complicated international treaty, in which a large number of nations becomeparties. Now it is notorious in the history of nations, especially in modern times,that treaties if not made to be broken (as soie say), are certainly very unstable decu-menta, and the larger the number of parties in it, the sooner they fall to pieces; somelat but days, others months, and others years. Whenever it is to the iterest of one,of the more powerful parties to set it aside, it is treated as so much waste paper. Anyone, who, like myself, hae made a study of the European treaties for the last fiftyyears, will recognize the correctness of this statement.

Sometimes, without the violation of treaties, but by shrewd political management,siugle national become posed of enterprises constructed for the general good. As

100 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

an instance of the last I will mention the Suez Canal. Lord Beaconsfield, by takingadvantage of the necessities of the Khedive of Egypt, has obtained for England thecontrol of the Suez Canal, and to make that possession secure, Great Britan has nowa series of military posts from Gibraltar to Egypt (Gibraltar, Malta, and Cyprus).

This view of the subject will be met by the advocates ot the canal by stating thatthe United States do not intend to become a party to any international treaty to pro-tect its construction and operation; but intend to undertake the sole protection ofany canal across Central America that capitalists may undertake to construct. Why,it means simply, if needs be, to tight al the world. And what fort Why, for a canalthat will be of more use to everybody else than ourselves. Congress has become ter-ribly strait-laced about granting subsidies on our own territory, in some of which nomoney is required and no risk of loss to the government; and yet we are called uponto grant the subsidy of protection to private capitalists (the larger portion of whomwill probably not be our citizens) in an enterprise in a foreign country of questionableutility to ourselves, that may at any time involve us in serious international difficulty.The truth is, iftwe attend to our own business at home, and put forth energy to developthe whole of our country, our nation will become a powerful host without army ornavy. Let us make ourselves a necessity to the great nations of the world, and theywill cherish our friendship and bear much and long before they seek a conflict withtbose who furnish to them both food and clothing.

The Atlau tie and Pacific Oceans wash our shores for thousands of miles in extent,which are studded with abundant and safe harbors; with our right hand we reach outto the nations of Europ, and with our left to the Asiatic nations, attracting to ourshores the wealth of both.

We are yet Wut sparsely settled; and is it not enough for us to develop the presentterritory by supplementing our political union by a union of highways that will per-meate every corner and traverse in all directions our vast territory. This certainlyappears to be a far better occupation for us than to enter upon a protectorate and in-vite our people to spend their money upon a questionable enterprise in a foreign land,which may result in serious national difficulty and loss of capital to those materiallyinterested in it.

Is it not better for us (at least for the present) that each of our ocean coasts shouldderive the full benefit of the peculiar and favorable relations to the commerce of thetwo quarters of the globe.? Asia must flow to California and Oregon, and Europe toour Eastern shore. Great menufactories will in due time be established on our Pacificulope, and that shore will teem with its millions of inhabitants, and the great high-w-a1s will furnish cheap and rapid transportation to all points between our two oceans,t least fo~r all products but thome that are hoary and cheap, which I will try to show

will find their way around Cape Horn, rather than b- the costly route of a transisthmiancanal,

The commerce of San Francisco in 1q76 was about $2.50,000,000, exports and im-ports, of wbich about one-half were the precious metals, alout $8,000,000 of wool,$2,0001,000 each of mercury and fish, less than $1,000,040 each of preserved fruits andwine, and $20,000, 000 of grain and flour. Now, every one of these articles could betrtransportation by rail, if it be to come to the East, except wheat. And suppose allthe grain and flour exported came around the cape, how much would be saved by<oming through an isthmus canal after paying three dollars per ton toll and other un-avoidable expenses in the harbors, not counting the risk of calms at Panama and theperiodical storms at Aspiuwall f I verily believe that, taking everything into consid-eration, nothing would be saved. This statement I make after a carefil study of thenavigation from San Francisco to Liverpool of sailing-vessels, some of the facts ofwhich will lie found under my last head.

When in England, last October, I collected some few facts that itmay be interesting tonote in connection with the commerce between San Franeisco and Liverpool.

The length of the pasage between these points is 100 days for a fast pasage and120 days for a moderate passage. In sailing, the vessels go well out to sea, and withthe prevailing east or west winds, but little interfered with by calms, go southwardto the cape, and with the same prevailing winds sail northward to Liverpool. If thesevesels go the Panama or a port in Central America, they must hug more closely thecomt, and very often strike long calms in the tropics, especially at Panama Bay, andI do not heliov, under the most favorable circumstances, would the length of the triplao diminimhed one-fourd.

Should there be any difference of time, of 0Qnrse there would be a difference of costin making the trip. Lot us nee what this will be, barring all accidents, and this Ibase on two ships that arrived in 120 days from San Francisco during the time I wasin Liverpool--say a vessel of 1,5W0 tons.tr, men, at $10 per month, for four months ..... ......................... $1,000Food for 25 eno, at 30 onets per day ........................................ f0Minor expenses, say..............................

For 120 days total ......................................... 2, 150

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 101or $17.90 sailing expenses per day. The captain's salary is not included in this, as heis paid by primage on cargo; and two officers' wages would not bring this amount toquite twenty dollars.

Next comes insurance. An iron ship of 1,500 tons, fully rigged and equipped, couldhave been built in October last for sixty dollars a ton. They were built at a less pricein the summer, and may now cost a little more; so then a 1,500 ton iron ship will cost$90,000; a wooden vessel will cost less. The cargo of that ship will be about 37,000sacks of wheat, about two bushels each, and worth, say, $2 per sack; entire value offreight, $74,000. This added to the cost of the vessel will make the combined value$164,000, on which the rate of marine insurance for the voyage from San Fraucisco to.Liverpool is from + to 2+ per cent., say '2 per cent.; the insurance will be $4,100.Now, supposing the rate of insurance by an isthmus canal would be diminishedexactly in proportion to the difference of probable length of the voyage, which I haveassumed at one-fourth less (although this really would not be the case), the iusurancewould be $3,075.

So the cost of the sailing and insurance of a wheat ship by the cape would be:Ordinary passage (120 days, at $2..................$2, 40Insurance of ship and freight .... ............................. 4,100

Total ................................................................ 6,50

By an isthmus ennali-0 days, at $20) ............. ..................... 1,800Insurance of ship asil cargo ................................ 3, 07&

Total... .................................................. 4,875

Difference in *vor of canal ...... ................................... 1,625But now w* will see what ft- eftal toll will he for the 1,500 ton ship. By the

lowest estimate of the congress it wag'qiee cat $3 per too; the 8noz Canal toli is alittle more tlan one-half that sum, is toll will be $4,600, whielh makes the differ-ence in favoof the trip around th e

But the vioel and eatJ.4:' the t p u ape have 'uWl a large amiatnt ofcapital thir ' days long thas-gze y drn w at the rate of 12 per ceat. onthe value o he ship, wil be a 1O the theirOn the ship, ,000, 12 p* cent. . . ..... ......... $0On the cargo"74,000, 5 p* cent......... .......

Total... ........ ........ ..-- --.-.......-- -........ --........... 1,208

At 15 per cent. o0 the value of the shw ......... .......... .......... 1,125At 6 per cent. on Te value of the go, ........ ......... ....... 370

Total ........ ........................................... .. 1,495.So that even at the lktr rate of interest the cost is still in favvr of the Cape by$1,380.I know that these calculatiodlw somewhat cru s, but wha evor errors there may

be, they are equal1 on both sides. tU aplarm to me, that can be madin the matter is in regard to the time save y e canal, which saving, for the rea-sons already stated, is very likely to be overated; and consequently the tonnage ex-pected to pass the canal is, is my opinion, very largely overestimated. A glance atthe map will show that, all things considered, sailing ships from Hong-Kong to Europewill gain but very little in using the canal.

In this hurried statement no pretension is made to any very definite discussion of thesubject. I only wish to present to the public my views of the actual merits of the pro-ceedings of the congress, giving full credit to every member of that congress of havingacted fairly and honestly in tie matter, although the motives of soni have been im-pugned; of this last suspicion I do not know the justice or injustice.

Now, I am prepared to state, not only from a discussion which took place in thecongress but also from other later discussHions outside the congrm it differentparts of Europe, that this canal is not going to be constructed or touched unless theUited States countenance the project. I do not believe that any one would consent

to invest $100 in it unless the United States would undertake to 'bolster it up. ThaEuropean nations, of course, desire the canal for the benefit of their own commerce.England has nearly tripled her commerce with South America within the last tenyears and she desires to secure every mo ans of rapid communication that sie can. Itst outh Amaerica trade she could, of course, ut e steamers, because she could havecalling ationa along the South American coast.

ow, as to tias interchange of prducts between our Psoific and Atlantic coast.

102 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

Since our railroads are becoming so numerous and so perfect (and in the. course ofthree or four years we shall have three or four railroads extending all together acrossthe continent), every article that is produced on our Pacific coast can be transportedto the East in that way except wheat. The time is not very far off when the wheatcrop of California will not be exported either to the Atlantic coast or to foreign coun-tries on the Atlantic, for this reason : If you examine a map of the whole Pacific coast,both on the Asiatic and the American side, you will see that there is a great wheat-growing region, which includes California, Oregon, and Washington Territory. Noconsiderable part of the South American coast is fit to p- .)dues wheat, although theremay be a few patches. Then on the Asiatic side there is no wheat-growing region;but even if the land were adapted for it, the population is so dense that they couldnot spare the ground for large wheat-fields. On the other hand, the consumption ofwheat is increasing in the Pacific islands, in South America, and even in Asia, and thetime will soon come, in my opinion, when California and the whole wheat-producingregion n our Pacific ,oast will find its market on the Pacific. That, however, is amere speculation which, of course, does not bear very immediately upon the questionwhich you have asked me here to talk about.

Mr. 0. TURiNER. What is N onr opinion as to the advantages to be derived from theconstruction of tlis canal by foreign governments, as compared with the advantagesthat we would derive ?

The WITNxsS. The foreign governments will be vastly more benefited by it than wewill. There is no doubt about that. England is seeking outlets for her manufacturesin all directions, and France is seeking outlets for hers, and the commerce of boththose nations will, of course, take the shortest route wherever the freights are of sovaluable a character as to justify the increased expense; such as wine, silks, andother valuable articles. For example, the construction of the canal would make itmuch easier for France to compete successfully with California in the wine trade, be-cause she would be able to send her wines all along the Pacific coast almost as cheaplyas California could send hers.

Mr. 0. Ttix-hER. What is your idea as to the advantage of the canal to us in a mili-tary point of view ?

The WITNZESS. My opinion on that point is that if we had a difficulty with anyAsiatic power, or if we were attacked on our Pacific coast by any nation, we wo:ildnot send our Army and our supplies around by way of Panama, when we rould somuch more rapidly 11(snd them across the continent by rail, and have them beyondthe reach of an enemy while they were making the'journey. We would not andcould not use the canal for that purpose, even if it were constructed. Then if we werecagaged in a contest with a nation having a powerful navy, it would be easy for theenemy to block up the canal at both ends. At this very time, if we should get into adifficulty with England, she could in three or four weeks have 40 or50 steam-vesselsat the mouth of the canal on the Pacific side.

Mr. 0. TuRNMR. You have devoted a great deal of time to the investigation of thissubject: I should iike to have your opinion from all the knowledge you have obtainedia regard to it, as to the probability of the canal being constructed, if the Govern-m 'ut of the United Stats refrains from taking part in tho work. Do you think itlikely that M. De Leseps or any other party will succeed in constructing the canalunless we assist ?

The WITNESS. I do not.Mr. 0. TuRNER. You do not think it likely that it would be constructed either by

private individuals or by other governments ?The WITN.ESS. Not at all. The whole project centers in M. De Leseps, He is as you

all know, a great diplomatist; he is a most attractive man, one who magnetizes every-body with whom he comics in contact; but, like other diplomatists, he is not very particu-lar about making broad statement. He is a sanguine man with a good deal of imagi-nation, and lie talks largely about wha he intends to do and what he can do. Hesaid first that he wold construct the canal in twelve years ; then he reduced the timeto ten, then to eight, and at last, I believe, to six years. The estimates of engineers inregard to the time necessary for the construction of work like this are curiouslyvague and unsatisfactory. TMr. Dirks and Mr. Conrad are two of the leading engi-heers of Holland, who have constructed aomet very large looks there. Mr. Dirks statedthat it took him one year with 250 men to construct a certain lock which he men-tioned, and that it would take him two'years to construct a look of the size andcharacter of the one proposed for the Isthmus Canal. Mr. Conrad stated that it hadtaken him three years with about the same number of men to construct a larger lookthan the one constructed by Mr. Dirks, and he estimated that with the material' onthe ground (as I understood) it would take a longer ime to construct a look snch aswould be required for this canal. Multiplying that time by the number of locks4 yonget some idea of the time that would be ne6esary. Then comes in the question of theexcavation of the tunnel, It has taken ten years to put the St. Gothard's tunnelthrough, although the engin4drs had th. necessary tools and iasilruments already

'A' 44. Uk

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 103devised for them. That tunnel is not more than about one-eleventh as large as theone proposed by M. De Lesseps, so that to make five miles of tunnel on the Do Lessepsroute, would be equal oo making a tunnel like the St. Gothard fifty miles long.

Mr. CONGER. That is if the lower part was as expensive to construct as the upperpart

The WITNESS. Yes. Of course it is not likely that it would be so; but in any pointof view, I think their esl.iamte of time was too small for so gigantic an enterprise.

Mr. 0. TURNER. What was the calculation of the engineers in -cgard to gettingvessels through the tunnel I

The WITNESS. That was to be done by towage. One plan was to have roadwayson each sidp of the tunnel, the towing to be done by tittle locomotives.

Mr. 0. TURNER. Within the tunnel?The WITNESS. Within the tunel. It was fiuite a difficult problem, and it never

was satisfactorily settled. There was no existing plan of towing vessels, in such acase, that it was thought could be r6lied upon, and therefore it was necessary to do-vise something new.

Mr. 0 TuiviEzu. Then I understand that after all the consideration that they wereable togive thesubject, th-re really wasno plan developed for taking a vessel through,after the tunnel was completed .

The WITNEeS. No. But, M. De Losseps, you know, afterwards abandoned the ideaof a tunnel, and decided upon making an open cut. Upon that plan the canal was tobe a single one like the Suez Canal, with lateral basins in which vessels could pass ata distance of 5,000 meters apart, between three and four miles. In the tunnel thebasins were to be more numerous.

Mr. 0. TUnNEr. What would be the depth of the cut IThe WITNesS. Between 275 and :00 feet.. The tunnel was to be 115 feet above the

I ,vel of the water, and, upon the Vlan of making an open cat, of course the rest of thematerial would be cut out up to Ine surface.

Mr. 0. T upuER. How was it proposed to protect the cut from the falling in of dirt tThe WITNESS. 8ome engineers said that the wall of protection wouhl have to be

constructed 100 feet at the base and there was a good deal of discussion upon that point;but they at last settled upon the plan of one in ten, w.) as the elevation would be say3)) feet; the wall would be 30 feet at the base. That was the lowest limit considered;but engineers skilled in that kind of construction, and who have constructed manyrailroad embankments in France, held that the wall ought to be 100 feet at the base.These technical questions were, of course, difficult to deal with in advance, and thegeneral idea was that it would be necessary to first raise the money, and then proceedwith the work in the manner that might seem best under the circumstances, and inthe light of such exierioene as could be obtained.

Mr. 0. TurNER. Was the question of the overflow of the Chagres River consid-ered?

The WITNESS. Yes. To meet that difficulty the plan deemed most feasible was towiden the bed (f the river so as to give more room for carrying oft' the water. I donot think, however, that that would be sufficient. If you look at a map of the pro-posed route, such as you will find in the minutes of the congress, you will see thattheChagres River is like a snake, winding about and running on each side of the canalat various points, and that it would be necessary to throw that iiver all to the northfrom Matachin. The practical difficulties are enormous; but of course they can beoveromi by skillful eugin ers if you give then money enough.

In further confirmation of what I have said about the repellant nature of theequatorial calm-bolt of the proposed termini of the canal-routes, especially thatat Panama. I will give the following high authority on the subject, as it appearedin a recent number of the New York Herald:

"It is true both of tho proposed routes lie near the equatorial calm-belt, and neitherof them offers a Pacitfie terminus very propitious for navigation; but that by Panamais far less auspicious for all ships dependent in whole or in part upon the use of canvas.The voyage under cauv9s from the Bay of Panama to California or China is one ofthe most difficult and vexatious in the world. According to. the ' sailing directions'for the Pacific the run from Valparaiso to California is shorter in point of time thanthat from Panama, though the latter is not half so long as the former. So tedious and,difficult is it tQ get out of the bay that thirty days from Panama to the Equator (abouteven hundred miles) has not been regarded, in wme seasons, as an ,xtrsordinary long

detention. Daring th.5 rainy season, from June to September, cahns, sjuals, con-trary winds and currents, baffle the best seamanship, so that one of the highest nau-tical authorities, Roser, states, 'it often happens that twenty miles of westing arenaot made in a week; and it Is only by the industrious use of every squall and slant ofwind that the pango can be made at all.' One of the ablest French investigators ofocean meteorolgy Labrose, and Lieutenant Maury have both long since fuly shown thatthe ocean square between 5 degrees and 10 degree. north, and 80 degrees and 85 degreeswet) is of al marine regions 'tIhe most liable to calms the year round:' 'If,'said the lt-

104 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

ter, as reported in 1866, 'some great convulsion of nature should rend the continent iiitwo at Panama, leaving a free, open channel from ocean to ocean, it would never lie-come a highway for sailing-vessels.' That this is substantially the judgment of thebest qualified seamen may be seen from the recent address au the Panama Canal byCaptain Pim, of the Royal Navy, which was reported in the Herald of the 31at ult."

About additional surveys.

As regards additional surveys, I must state that my opinion is that there are enoughsurveys (some 8 or 10) to enable us to know whether we should enter on the enterprise,and further detailed surveys would only be necessary after the enterprise was coin-menced.

SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTEROCEANIC SHIP-CANAL,

Washington, D. C., Januury 15, 1681.

STATEMENT OF MR. S. L. PHELPS.

The CHAIRMAN laid before the committee the bill introduced by Mr. Morton, of NewYork, and referred to the committee for the incorporation of the Nicaragua MaritimeCon pany.

Mr. S. L. PHELPS, representing the interests of the Nicaragua Maritime Company,appeared before the committee and made the following statement:Ido not propose to say anything at present except in regard to the business that

may be anticipated for this canal. This committee, as I understand, called for a re-port from the statistician of the Treasury Department as to the amount of tounage thatmight be expected to go through an interoceanic canal if one were now in existence,and Mr. Nimmo made a report, which I have in my hand The tables that he gives hereare valuable. The deductions that he has drawn from them are altogethererroneous.In crediting to the Pacific coast the business with Europe, the entrance and clearanceof vessels in San Francisco engaged in the European trade around Cape Horn, he al-lows only 551,929 tons. The actual wheat crop of the Pacific coast this year, at thistime, to be transported to European markets is one million tons. That would involvethe entrance and clearance of nearly twice that amount of tonnage, or, say, 1,500,000tons instead of the 551,929 as stated by Mr. Nimmo.

The CHAIRMAN. What seems to have led the statistician into that error in his esti-mate ?

Mr. PHELPS. This table of his treats only of actual trade as carried on in ships, anddoes not undertake to estimate the trade that is done over the Pacific Railway. Oneerror arises in a lack of knowledge of the actual condition of things on the westerncoast of both Americas-North America and South America. He was not aware ofthe arrangement between the Pacific Railway Companies and the Pacific Mail Steam-ship Company, which practically removes anything like competition between SanFrancisco and New York by way of Panama. The Pacific Railway Companies pay tothe Pacific Mail Steamship Company a certain amount ($100,000) per month for con-trol of the traffic between New York and San Francisco. The business of the CentralA inerican coast and of the South American coast, by way of Panama, has also grownvery much and really occupies the entire capacity of the Pacific Mail steamers, so,that, even if the arrangement I speak of were not existing, the better-paying traffic ofCentral and South America would still absorb the capacity of those steamers, so that,practically, there would be very little competition by way of the isthmus with thePacific Railroads,

So far as regards the South Amerizan coast, the case is a very peculiar one, and onewhich the statistician of the Treaanry Department did not in the least understand. Aslon& ago perhaps as 155, when the Panama Railway Company had control of thePacific trade, large numbers of passengers were carried by that line. The Govern-ment of Chili offered a subsidy for a steam.line to be established through the Straits ofMagellan, to run ronnd to Montevideo and Buneos Ayres, The manager of the Britishline of stdamers on that South American coast, known as the "Pacific NavigationCompany," went to the managers of the Panama Railroad Company and said, "If youextend to us such facilities and establish such rates as will enable us to compete witha line by the way of t!,e Straits of Magellan, we will not become a bidder with thaChilian Government for that route." ' he Panama Railroad Company said that theywould make no arrangement about it, and that the Pacific Navigatior Company mightbid, if it wished, for the trade by way of the Straits of Magellan. The conequeenoowas that the Pacific Steam Navigation Company got the oontraot from th6 ChiliinGovernment, and, instead of a line of steamers simply looking to the trade between

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INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 105

Great Britain and the ports of Buenos Ayres and Montevideo, the company built alarge number of very fine steamships, and ran a line directly from Liverpool to Cadiz,the Canary Islands, Rio Janeiro, Buenos Ayres, and through the Straits of Magellanto Valparaiso and Callao. In addition to their large steamers they also employed anumber of smaller steamers in plying between Callao and the northern ports of SouthAmerica, doing a coasting business. These steamers gathered cargo on their waydown, and distributed it to the large steamers; and the consequence was that thiscompany absorbed the entire trade of South America, carrying it through the Straits.of Magellan, to the great detriment of the business of the Panama Railroad Company.That is s-ill going on, so that Mr. Nhnmo's tables and deductions, as to the SouthAmerican trade, are altogether wrong. Mr. Nirnmo also assumes that the vessels.engaged in the nitre and guano business-to the extent of eight hundred thousandtoa-would still go around Cape Horn. Now, to ro around Cape Horn involves avoyage south of from 2,500 to 3,000 miles. It also Involves the perils of boisterousPeas about Cape Horn; whereas, by these vessels coming to the north and goingthrough the canal, they would evade this long voyage and those troublesome seas..

The CHAIRMAN. What would be the difference in the length of the voyage whichthese ships would have to make as between a canal and going around by Cape Horn ?

Mr. PUELPS. The executive committee of the Nicaragua Ship Canal Jompany tookup that subject and stated it with precision. I will read an extract from that state-ment, paffe 10:

"The distance from Valparaiso to Liv3rpool, via the Straits, is 8,725; via Nicaragua,7,550 miles. From Callao, via the Straits, the distance is 10,16*2 miles, and via Nic-aragua, 6,100 miles. Thus, a steamer leaving Valparaiso for Liverpo~ol, by way of thecanal, would have less distance to make by about 1,200 miles, and throughout the en-tire route to the North Atlantic the run would be on a sea wonderfully propitious forsteamship navigation, and the reverse of that via the Straits of Magellan. LeavingCallao for Liverpool by way of Nicaragua, the distance is 4,0 00 miles less than via theStraits. While proceeding to deliver or gather cargo, the ship from or to Nicaragua,bound to or leaving Valparaiso, would make no needless detour of thousands of miles,as happens to the one leaving the La Plata for the southwest coast."

Of course, the moment that a ship-canal is opened, if it were attempted to rnin aline of steamers by way of the Straits of Magellan, the other steam lines that nowreach Panama-the British Mail Line, the West India Line, and the French Line-(all of which now touch at Aspinwall) would pass through the canal and take awaythe business of the line going through the Straits of Magellan. There is no questionof that.

There is another consideration of trade for which no allowance was made in Mr.Nimmo's estituate-that is, the tea trade of China and Japan, which would naturallyseek a channel through a canal by the way of the isthmus. All the tea for markets.east of the Mississippi would come by that way. That for markets west of the Mis-sissippi would go to San Francisco, as now. There will- be always some point in thecentre of the continent where the two rates of tonnage from China and Japan wouldbe about equal.

The CHAIRMAN. Would much of the tea trade probably ascend the MississippiRiver and be thence distributed ?

Mr. PHELPS, I have no doubt it would. The great ports for the implortation of teain this country now are San Francisco and New York-San Francisco furnishing tea to,certain portions of the continent and Yew York to the rest of it. When the canal isopened, it would be a simple question as to where, in the centre of the continent, thepoint of equality of cost would be. Making allowance for the error into which Mr.Nimmo has fallen, and also for the much larger amount of giniu trade of the Pacific(*mt than he took into consideration, the executive committee reached the conclu-sion that the probable trade for a canal by way of Nicaragua would be 3,7061,000 tons;but in order to be entirely secure it was thought best to assume 3,000,000 tons asthe average of the trade. A trade of i,000,000 tons would enable the canal com-pany (on the supposition that the canal could be built as cheaply as the Nicaraguacanal can be) to enforce very low rates of toll. Three million tons, at $2.50 per ton,would be seven and a half million dollars. The present cost of maintenance anti op-eration of the Suez Canal (which is 90 miles long, and which has to be dredged veextensively on account of sand deposits) is 5,800,000 francs, or a little over $1,000,00.

By the Nicaragua route the actual canalization will be about 53 miles--the rest ofthe distance being by open river or lake navigation, and not subject to any contin-gencies that would require any considerable expendituie-so that the probability isthat the estimate of $1,500,000 as the cost of maintaining and orating the canal isa large estimate. Supposing it to be sufficiently large, the 3,000,000 tons of busi-ness would give the canal company an actual net gain of $6,000,000, which would be6 per cent. on a capital of $100,000,000. The estimated cost of the (-ana I by the engi-neers is $41,060,000, and that estimate is based upon our present knowledge of the en-tire route. The knowledge of that part of it between the lake and the Pacific it

106 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL*

-accurate and well determined. Our knowledge of the other part of it is as much so,except with reference to a short cut across from the riverto the valley of the San Juan,which has been only passed over in a reconnaissance sufficient to determine the entirefeasibility of it, although there has not been time to determine with accuracy the ex-act location of the route. Estimates are based simply on that line of track that wasiound to be feasible, and therefore the cost of the canal is subject to some reduction.

Tile. concession from the Government of Nicaragua is very full and very complete. Itwould allow the canal company to charge any amount of toll necessary to produce ar'venu e not exceeding 15 per cent. on its capital stock. The limit is 15 per cent.over and above the actual cost of conducting the canal. The Panama Canal Company,on account of its being so much more expensive, would have to charge far greater tollsthan it is proposed to charge by the Nicaragua Canal Company, in order to earn thesame rato of dividends. The concession which the Panama Canal Company has, allowsit to charge almost. anything that it sees fit to charge, having in view the great cost ofthe canal. Itis first allowed to measureaship asif she were dbox. Her greatest length,hr greatest breadth, and her depth are to be taken together, and multiplied in cubicmeters, and each cubic meter is to be called a ton, and on that the company is allowedto charge vii francs a ton. In a financial paper issued by the Panama Canal Companyi t is stated that this mode of measurement would allow a tariff of 40 francs, or $H a ton tobe charged, but M. de Lesseps says that it is only proposed to charge 15 francs a tonfor toll, and then there will be tle accessory charges, tonnage, and harbor dues andanchorage, &c, In the prospectus of the Panama Canal Company issued here, it issaid that the business of the canal is sure to be at least six million tons a year, andthat that amount is probably very much less than it will be, and that the receipts ofthe company will be ninety million francs per year, without counting the specialtaxes-that is to say, fbr harbor, tonnage, &c. That calculation is on a basis of 15francs a ton, and, as the United States are credited with supplying half the businessto the canal, that means that we are to pay to the Panama Canal Company forty-fivemillions of francs, or $9,000,000 a year, besides the accessory charges. The NicaraguaCanal Company could pay 10 per cent. dividend on its capital stock on the amount ofbusiness which M. do Lesseps credits to the United States.

It has bee- suggested that there are some difficulties of a constitutional characterabout Congress charteing a company to do anything outside of the United States.For that reason the preamble has been put into the bill, and the text has been made,o as to give the company authority to do whatever the Nicaraguan Government saysit might do. I desire simiplyto say, in that connection, that in 1870 Congress charteredthe Bolivian Steam Navigation Company, whose teniness it is to run steamers on thehead-waters of the Amazon River in Bolivia. That act was approved on the 29th ofJune 1870.

There is one little matter in regard to influences governing the trade of the Pacificcoast, at this time, by sea, which makes it extremely difficult to estimate the probabletrad e through the canal. The Pacific Railroad Companies compel the merchant inCalifornia to enter into a contract and to bind himself that he will not ship anythingby water, and in consideration for that engagement they give him a rebate of about40 per cont. in freight by the railroad. If the merchant will not bind himself in thatway he has to pay full freight. It is perfectly well known that that has been thegeneral practice in California, and consequently the mercantile community is com-pelled to ship a great deal by rail that would otherwise go by sea even now, and goaround Cape Horn.

Mr. CONGE. Do you appear here in favor of this billIMr. PHELiPs. Yes; I am the representative of the Nicaragua Canal Company.Mr. CONGER. I would like an explanation in regard to some points in this bill. In

tl first place, there is no provision in this bill as to the place where the offices of theCompany are to he established. It fixes no place in this country for the meetings ofthe stockholders or dire,tors; second, the place and manner of serving processes andpapers in matters of litigation are not provided for.

Mr. PHELPS. Them is nothing of that sort in the bill which Congress passed to in-corporate the Northern Pacific Railway Company.

Mr. CovaEn. That is within our own territory.Mr. Pr EMPs. That is within our own territory; but there is no provision in that

bill for the offices of the company. In drawing up the bill now before the committee,that was a matter which attracted some thought; but, inasmuch as the concessionitself fixes the place for the offices of the company, it was thought unnecessary to putit in the bill.

Mr. CoicitR. The third point is that there is no power reserved or guaranteed tothe United States to control or regulate tolls. The fourth point is that forfeiture ofstock on thirty days' notice is to be absolute, except at the pleasure of the directors.That seems to me a harsh proceeding. The fifth point is that there is no requirementthat more than one-tenth of the amount of the stock shall be ever subsomibed for, orthat more that one-teuth of the par value of the stock shall be paid in. The sixth

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 107pohit is as to the necessity of a charter from the United States instead of from someStates. The seventh point is as to Congress granting powers dependent upon the willof another government. These are points on which I should like to have some sugges-tions from you.

Mr. SINGLETON. I would also like to bear some statement as to where the powerto purchase and hold real estate is to be exercised. The bill provides for such power,but does not state where it is to be exercised.

Mr. PuFa s. The concession itself grants to the company a considerable tract of landalong the line of the canal, and also a bulk of land away from the canal.

Mr. SIVLETO.,. This bill provides that the company may purchase any autount ofland and hold it; but I want to know where that power is to be oxercised-whetherin this country or in Nicaragua. If in Nicaragua, can Congress confer any such power,and. if in this country, ought Congress to confer it?

Mr. PHIELPS. The difficulty of drawing a bill of this kind is very great in view of thefict that the canal is to be constructed under a concession granted by a governmentthrough whose territory it is to pass.

Mr. CONGER. Have you a copy of the concession?Mr. Pu E's. Yes; I have it here in print. The idea of the charter is, first, to pro-

tect stckholders in the company, and to give them the advantages of an incorporation;and, second, to place the company under the existing treaty between the United Statesand Nicaragua, in which the United States biuds itself to protect any transit workthat may b, constructed through the territory of Nicaragua. I will read Article XV ofthe treaty:

"The United States herehy agree to extend their protection to all such routes of com-munication as aforesaid, and to guarantee the neutrality of the same. They also agreeto employ thoui influence with other nations to iuduce them to guarantee such neu-trality and protection.

"And the Republic of Nicaragua on its part undertakes to establish two free ports,one at each of the extremities of the communications aforesaid on the Atlantic andPacific Oceans. At theseports no tonnage or other duties shall be imposed or leviedby the Government of Nicaragua on the vessels of the United States, or on any effectsor merchandise belonging to citizens or subjects of the United States, or upon the ves-sels or effects of any other country intended bona fide for transit across the said routesof communication, and not for consumption within the Republic of Nicaragua.

"The United States shall also be at liberty to carry troops and munitions of war intheir own vessels or otherwise to either of the said free ports, and shall be entitledtotheir conveyance between them without obstruction by the authorities of Nicaragua,and without any charges of tolls whatever for their transportation on either of saidroutes of communication. And no higher or other charges or tolls shall be imposed onthe conveyance or transit of persons or property of citizens or subjects of the UnitedStates or of any other country across the said routes of communication than are ormay be imposed on the persous and property of citizens of Nicaragua. And the Re-public of Nicaragua recognizes the right of the Postmaster-General of the Unitedstates to enter into contracts with any individuals or companies to transport the mailsof the United States along the said routes of cotmmunication, or along any other routesacross the isthimus, in its discretion, in closed bags, the contents of which may not beintended for distribution within the said republic, free from the imposition of all taxesor duties by the Gvernineut of Nicaragua; but this liberty is not to be construed soas to permit such individuals or companies, by virtue of this right to transport themails, tio carry also passeogers or freight."

Mr. SINGLE'TON. What is the date of that treatyIMr. P11 Liss. Thai is the Cass-Yrisarri treaty of November 16, 1857.Mr, SINGLETON. fIlts not that treaty been modified by a subsequent treaty made in

1W66?Mr. P11 LP8. I believe that a subsequent treaty was negotiated, but was not ratified.

Article X of the concession is as follows:"The company will be organized in the manner usual for companies of this charac-

ter. Its offices will be in New York, or where it may deem most convenient, and itmay have branch offices at the same time in Europe and America, as it may please.It will be called the ' Maritime Canal Company, of Nicaragua.' and its directors willbe selected-at least one-half of them-from members of the provisional society intheir capacity as founders."

This gives such a latitude as to an office that it did not seem to be necessary to putin the bill any provision fixing the place of meeting, any farther than that it was tobe named by the parties calling the first meeting for the purpose of organizing thecompany. I fond that in the act of Congress for the incorporate ion of the NorthernPacifle kailroad Company there was no specified place of meeting, except as to thefirst meeting, which was to be in Boston.

Mr. Co o R.. And it became necessary to pass an additional law fixing the place ofmeeting.

108 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL,

Mr. PHELPS. I see no reason for not amending this bill so as to fix New York as theplace of meeting. There is no objection to such an amendment that I am aware of.

Mr. SINGLETON. I find in the volume of public tTeaties that there was a treatymade between the United States and Nicaragua-concluded at Managua June 1,167; ratification advised by Senate January 2, 18 18; ratified by President February7, 1868; ratifications exchanged at city of Granada June 20, 188; and proclaimedAugust 13, 166 . The fifteenth section of that treaty is as follows:

"The United States hereby agree to extend their protectionto all such routes of com-mlnication as aforesaid, and to guarantee th neutrality and innocent use of the same.They also agree to employ their influence with other nations to induce them to guar-antee such neutrality and protection.

"And the Republic of Nicaragua, on its part, undertakes to establish one freak port ateach extremity of one of the aforesaid routes of communication between the Atlanticand Pacific Oceans. At these ports no tonnage or other duties shall be imposed orlevied by the Government of Nicaragua on the vessels of the United States, or on anyeffects or merchandise belonging to citizens or subjects of the United States, or uponthe vessels or effects of any other country intended bona fide for transit across the saidroutes of communication, and not for consumption within the Republic of Nicaragua.The United States shall also be at liberty, on giving notice to the government orauthorities of Nicaragua, to carry troops and munitions of war in their own vessels,or otherwise, to either of said free ports, and shall be entitled to their conveyance be-tween them without obstruction by sai.! government or authorities, and without anycharges or tolls whatever for their transportation on either of said routes, providedsaid troops and munitions of war are not intended to be eml)loyed against CentralArnerican nations friendly to Nicaragua. And no higher or other charges or tolls shallbe imposed on the conveyance or transit of persons and property of citizens or sub-jects of the United States, or of any other country, across the said rones of comnuni-cation than are or may be imposed on the persons And property of citizens of Nicaragua.

"And the Republic of Nicaragua concedes the right of the Postmaster-General of theUnited States to enter into contracts with any individuals or companies to transportthe mails of the United States along the said routes of communication, or along anyother routes across the isthmus, in its direction, in closed bags, the contents of whichmay not be intended for distributing within the said republic, free from the imposi-tion of all taxes or duties by the Government of Nicaragua; but this liberty is notto be construed so as to permit such individuals or companies, by virtue of this, totransport the mails, to carry also passengers or freight."

Mr. PHELPS. I supposed from the omision of the formalities to that treaty in thedocument from the S&eretary of State that the treaty had not been ratified.

As to the third objection of Mr. Conger's to the bill, in regard to the power to con-trol anti regulate tolls, I desire to say there is no power existing in the United Statesat present to regulate tolls on a canal constructed in Nicaragua, except as the UnitedStates may see fit to do so in giving this act of incorporation. It has acquired no rightwhatever in the treaty to do anything farther than to withdraw its support and pro-tction front the canal company, in case its tolls are thought to be exorbitant.

Mr SINGLETON. If this same bill were pased by the legislature of Nicaragua, wouldit not give to the company all the power it requires f

Mr. PHELPS. Yes; but the company could get no money, because capitalists will notput their money in an enterprise in Nicaraqg|ua that would depend fbr its protectionupon the Government of Nicaragua.

Mr. S ;L rO ON. Io not the coin )any sufliciently protected under the treaty betweenthe United St ates and Nicaragua I* Mr. PHELPS. No, sir; I think not.

Mr. SIMNLETON. The United States guarantees protection.Mr. PHELPS. Yes; provided it does not give notice to withdraw that protection. O

-After we got this concession, I went to Europe to see financial men there. The firstone that I saw was Baron Rothschild, in indon, who immediately said, "I (1o notthink that do Lesseps will get money ; I do not think that anybody will get money toconstruct a canal there, unless the United States approve of it atd protect it. Solong as the United States does not take that attitude nobody can ge' money hero fora canal on the isthmus." At that time he did not believe that do Lesseps could getmoney for that purpose. Baron Rothschild, of Paris, said about the same thing. Mr.Donon, chief of the dsp&t du eosearrene, said th, same thing, although this same gen-tleman is now one of the do Leswopm syndicate. That seemed to he the feeling amongall the financial men abroad-that it was necessary that there should be s um gov-ermnent to protect such an enterprise, or else that the capital could not be got to beinvested in Central America.

Adjourned until Monday, the 17th instant.

*.,isu -

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 109

WASHLNGT,)N, D. C., January 17, 1881.

ARGUMENT OF MR. THOMPSON, LATE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY.

Mr. THOMPSON, as the American representative of the Panama Ship Canal Com-pany, appeared before the committee, in response to its invitation, and said:

Mr. CHAIRMAN AND GENTLEMEN: I should very poorly repay your kindness if I wereto undertake to introduce any extraneous or irrelevant matter into anything I haveto say to-day. I shall, therefore, confine myself to the practical questions which Ireally understand to be before you. I mean those questions that pertain to the exer-cise of the legislative power of this government. I think that a great deal has beensaid which perhaps might have been as well unsaid in regard to the relative merits ofdifferent oceanic canal routes. If it can be demonstrated to the satisfaction of anymind that the Panama canal route is impracticable, it does not follow as a natural ornecessary consequence that the Nicaragua route is practicable, and so vice versa. Itseems to me that in looking practically at questions of this kind, every propositionmust stand on its own merits, and that the one is not in any sense necessarily con-nected with the other.

To a practical mind, the great question to be considered in reference to an inter-oceanic canal is, Is it practical to build one at all ? There may be diversities of opinionon that subject. There are those (and among them thinking men) who are inclined tothe belief tbat an interoceauic canal across the American Isthmus would not advanceAniericaii interests, but it may be received as a very well accepted fact in the commer-cial world that such a canal or some other transit route across the Isthmus is not onlydesirable in view of the necessities of commerce, but is absolutely necessary to com-merce and to its development, and especially so to the commerce of the United States.I shall not undertake, therefore, in what I have to say, to maintain the affirmative of'that proposition by argument, but I will assume it as a settled fact that the publicmind is deeply engaged in the consideration of the various means by which a transitroute across the Isthmus shall be constructed. Whether in the one or the other ofthe various nmdes proposed is a thing about which I am not inclined to perplex nymind. The great question that capitalists consider, who are called upon to investtheir means in such an enterprise, is, as a matter of course, the value of the investment.If it is a profitable investment, they will invest in it, and if it is not profitable they willnot. They decide that question for themselves. They are the judges of the 1 racti-cability and expediency of any work that is suggestedto them, and as we knlom that,the financial nerve is exceedingly sensitive, and that men who have capital are notlikely to invest it except there be some assurance of profit, they should be left to de-cide the question for themselves on the evidence before them. That evidence is fur-nished by scientific investigation. The engineer, with his theodolite and his level, canalone decide the question of the practicability of any work of internal improvement.To illustrate: f remember well (and many of you (1o also) when a scheme was pro-jected for building a railroad across the Alleghany Mountains The general publicmay have had diverse views on the subject, but the question was at last practicallysettled by the engineer, who, with his level, was able to say that a train ofears might pass along on the sides of those immense mountains; and when hewas able to furnish to the capitalists of the world and to the business inen ofthe world sufficient evidence to satisfy thiem that such a scheme as that waspracticable they invested their money in it. The work was built and thegrand object was consummated. At that thue (and I might make the same remarkin reference to many other works of intenal improvement) the general public re-garded that enterprise as chimerical. They did not believe it possible that it couldbe done. You remember, Mr. Chairman, as well as I do, how in our Western Stateswe were compelled (those of us who felt that there ought to be some improvement in*the country) to run counter to a strong public sentiment. I was told myself, whensupporting a system of internal improvements in our State as far back as 1835, thatthe man who advocated the idea that atrain of cars could pass across the State of In-diana from Now Albany to Crawfordsville, must be a monomaniac. But then thescheme has been accomplished. Now, when the idea is suggested to my mind us towhether an interoceanic ship canal or an interoceanic ship railway can be built, I canhave necessarily (not being an engineer or skilled in the solution of such problem)no special opinion of my own. The only opinion that I can entertain is one basedupon the opinions of others, and I have seen so much done in my life by a combina-tion of energy, genius, andi capital that, I have brought myself to the conviction 1lhatthat same combination can overcome any natural obstacles. And when a gentlemanskilled in science, a competent engineer, who has himself been accustomed to solvegreat and difficult an a strose problems, devotes his min to the careful analysis ofmum idea, and says to nme, "That thing is practicable, and can bo done," may ownl opinionyields to) his, because of his superior knowledge. It does not concern anc to know bywhat process of reasoning or by what process of investigation he reaches the concha-

110 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL

sion. His own mind becomes 8a.tistied and I am equally so. Th refore, the cap-italist, when he cones to invest his money in a great enterprise like this, yields hisconviction to the evidence before him. If I were to undertake to demonstrate thata railroad across the isthmus at, Tehuantepec was incompetent to answer the endsof public necessity, I should at ome be involved in a labyrinth of difficulties, out ofwhich I could not extricate myself, because a man of inmmense skill and ability hasexpressed the opinion that it can be done. Therefore, I yield Ny convictions to him.When I come to consider the question of the practicabiliiy of a canal at Nicaragua, Iyield 1iy comeVictions and itIy judgmnent to the opinions of others. So, when I come,to consider the practicability of a canal at Panama, I do precisely the same thing,and unless I were specially called upon to solve the problem lr myself, I must neces-sarily he compelled to adopt the opinions of others. But I can imagine no possibilityin which I should be called ulon to solve that problem for myself, nor can I imagineany legitimate possibility under which this committee can be called upon, in the ex-ercise of its legisl-tive authority, to decide that question for itself. It is not, there-fore, as I understand the legitimate jurisdiction of the committee, a question whichrequires a solution at your hamls. The great and practical question that strikes mymind as being at the very outset of the investigation, so far as the jurisdicl ion of thiscommittee is concerne(l, is, what relation has the Government of the United States toany enterprise or scheme that may le suggested in reference to an interoceanic transitroute I You are the representatives of the government; and as the representativesof the government you are primarily called upon to inqiliire what relations has thegovernment to any route, wheresoever it may be constructed? It doesseen to iethatin the solution of that problem it is not necessary fbr me to attempt to interest this.commniittee with any analysis of the evidence which is furnished in) regard to the rela-tive merits of those routes. The great question that arises ii niy mind in reference toaall scheines of this khiid is (as to ship canals), whether or not it would answer theends of commerce for an interoceanic canal to be constaucted on a sea-level or withlocks. That is the practical question-whetherthe canal is to be built on the sea-levelor with locks. It will be observed that all the surveys and estimates made under theauthority of the Government of the United States have had reference Eo the construe-tion of a canal with locks, It will not do to say (at least I will not venture to say it)that a canal cannot be bilt with locks; nor am I prepared to say how mnany locksare required on the canal across Nicaragua. But this I am apprised of: that thereis no project at all to build a canal there without locks, and there is no project tobuild a canal there without damns. For it is assumed that, in order to navigate prop-erly with ships the river San Juan de Nicaragua, daiis are necessary in order thatwhat is called " back-water nav:gation" may be made. I do not uindertake to go intothose tIiugs. I assuimne it to he impossible, after the sumntmit-level is reached on thewestern side of Lake Nicaragua, to reach the Pacific Ocean without locks-howmany I do not know. And again, that it is imlossible to have harbors on eitherside without creating them. I will not say that parlors cannot be m.de in the At-lantic ad in time l'acific. By no means. I do not know whether they can or nt.But I do know what I said before: ihat genius, enterprise, and capital can work outany results and overcome any natural obstacles,

I do not want to say one word to antagonize tie interest of any sclkvnie whatever;I am not here fr that purpose. I leave each of those iropositions to stand or fall onits own merits in so far as its practicability goes. The congress at Paris, which met.in 187t9, and which was composed of a very large number of' able and scientific engi-neers from all parts of the world, considered Lhe relative nierits of the two routes-the Panmia and the Nicaragiua route-and after having settled, as the startingproposition of their in vestigation, that it was necessary that a canal, when built,should be on the sea-level, they decided by a very large vote (78 to .8, I think--afew Hot voting) that it was practicable to build a ,'a-hivwl canal at Panama. Afterthat was done, another corps of engineers (two of wton were citizens of the UnitedStates and the rentaining seven wcre selected from thie difl rent nations of tle-world) were required to reinvestigate and decide whether the decision of the Pariscongress was true or not. After having thoroughly investigated, they found it to betrue, ill their opinion. On the fikith of that the parties who are now engaged ini thescheme of construct ig t cmual at Panama based their' conclusions that the thing waspraitticalle to be done. and suggested it to the capitalists of the world.The grtat question which strikes myminid is, what rehtion does the Government of

the United States hear to, this scheme of etinstracting a canal at Panama I In otherwords, is tlre aly atllriitive duty devolving upon the Government of the UnitedStates in regard tt that work, orwlli the United States consider itself ustitified inleaving each of these works to be dependent on its own merits like any other privatebusiness transaction, relying for success upon the means and instrumentalities whichit niay have in its own hiandsfI would not and could not be foreed to express an opinion against any of these

schemes, or to lahtce the weight of a single feather in obstruction to any of them.

illINTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL

I do not believe that they stand in rivalry witb each other; and I leave the greatscientific world, the eminent engineers who have made the solution of those questionsthe work of their lives, to decide the great questions which lie at the foundation ofthis inquiry. I address myself, therefore, practically to the question, "Has the Gov-ernment of the. United States any affirmative duty to pertforu in regard to theseworks?" I hear it stated by many of the best men in the country, and I read it inmany of the best newspapers in the country, that the scheme of building a canal atPanama by what is called a French corporation is in opposition to what is known asthe Monroe doctrine. I do not think so. On the contrary, I think that it affirms theMonroe doctrine. I think that the Monroe doctrine means simply that this schemeshall not be interfered with by the Government of the United States, What N\ as theMonroe doctrine I

The Spanish American states had established their independence. After a warthey had founded their government on the idea of selt-government. They had takenaway from the power of monarchs the right to control their affairs, and had simplydecided for themselves that they would manage their own affairs in their own way.In other words(, they had established simply the right of self-goveriiieat. The alliedpowers of Europe, regarding the movements on the American continent in farvr offree government as prejudicial to their system of government, .tunied a conlimation,the result of which was (as they looked at it) to re-establish the principles of ion-archy on the American continent, and to put an end, throughout the entire o4vilizedworld, to the idea of there being any opposition to the divine right of kings to gov-ern. In other words, the idea was to reforat the governments of the South Americanstates by subjugating them to the principle of monarchy. Mr. Monroe, referring tothat combinat ion, said that, inasmuch as the people of the United States could nutbut regard any effort of that kind as a menace to their own institutions, they wouldnot, without resistance (although I do not believe lie does carry it quite th;at far),consent that the system of monarchy should be re-established on this continent h ythe subjugation of the South Aierican states. But he i-aid, "they must be left -("othemselves." He uses precisely that language. Now, what was the meaning of that fFirst, that there should be no attempt on the part of those allied plowers to phant lthoprinciples of monarchy on the, Americau continent. Second, that there should he noattempt on the part of those powers to disturb and destroy the right of self-govern-ment of the South American states; and third, that they should not be periitled tocolonize their system on the American continent. Now, what was the extent of thatdeclaration I It was a Presidential declaration and nothing more. I do not think itwould do to say in this country, and under our institutions, that the declaratim or aPresident (how frequently soever it may be repeated) can constitute a policy. Thisis a popular government. In order to establish a policy the legislative po\ cr miustbe invoked, not the executive. The executive reconiuends; the legislative acts andgives vitality to principles and policy, so that, under our forrm of government, a Prei-dent, in the sense in which the term "policy "is used, has not the powerto (stablish it.And I will suggest to the committee, without repetition on this point, that it will findthis question thoroughly and fully (iscussed in 1t48 by Mr. (alhoun, who was a meit-ber of Mr, Monroe's cabinet when the declaration was made, and who says, after hav-ing combated tie idea that a policy had been established, " If it were established itwould necessarily involve us in perpetual war, because we would be itude a party toall the changes of fortune in the states of America anywhere and lie suilbject to con-tingencies over which we could not have any possible influence." The remark madeby hint had reference to tht application of the State of Yucatan to put lrsoelf uiderthe protection of the United States in order to prevent Europeant coloozation. Therewas a direct, application made on the part of Yucatan, a weak power, ti have tin Go% -erment of the United States intervene to protect her against Euroloau aggre'ssiou.Congress did not do it. Congress declined to do it, And what is very PreperlY shownby Mr. Calhoun) the idea never ripened into a policy. T therefore, every individual isleft to decide for himself, and every Congress is left to decide for itself, how far theGovernment of the United States is interested or required to initiate any alhirmtiveaction in regard to any of those schemes. Tie United States of* Colonlia is an ide.pendent government, made so by the achievement of its revoutionury indepelidence,just as our government is independent. If the crowned heads of Eurolpe were calledupon to settle the question whether that government were independent or not, theymight say that its indelpendenee eight be delh'icl, but not de jare; iecautse. if kingshave the divine right to govern, nothing can bar that right. "But we th n t adoptthat theory. The United States of Choubia are de face as well as de pir" an inile-pendent government in our understanding of the term. They hold dil;ounatie rela-tions with us. We enter into treaties with them, and to all intents and lurposes theUnited States of Colombia are as independent a government as we are. As atin inde-pendent government, what powers have they f Are not their powrs plenary I Arethey not ft'l and complete and entire over all their domnestic alaimrs l Have they notthe power and the right to conotruct internal improvements when they please, or to

112 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

omit to do so if they please ? They may or may not be hampered by constitutionalprovisions of their own, but they undoubtedly have the right to decide for themselveswhether those things shall be done or not. Now, in regard to the construction of acanal across the isthmus at Panama, there is everything done that can be done; everypractical step has been taken that is known to international law; all conceivablemodes have been adopted to establish, with the consent of all the great nations of theearth, the neutrality of that canal. That is, that when constructed, and by whom-soever ciar.3,ructed, ;' il to be kept neutral to all nations and to the transportation ofall the commerce of the vorld.

In the treaty f 1848, sometimes called the treaty of 1846, between New Grana.aand the United 8+ates (New Granada being but another term for the United States tfColombia, for they have simply changed their names since then), there are two im-portant provisions, first, that the neutrality of the canal (observe the language, if youplease) shall be, not observed, but guaranteed; and, second, that the United Statesshall likewise guarantee( the sovereignty of New Granada. It provides for two things,Erst, the neutrality of '.he canal; and, next, the sovereignty of New Granada. Westand there bound by these stipulations to protect both.

Mr. HUTCniuS. Does thvt apply to a canal built by a foreign corporation IMr. Tuos esoN. It applies t any canal.Mr. HUTCH INs. Does it not apply to a canal built by the United States of ColombiaMr. Tno. PsoN. I think not. I think it applies to any canal that may be built

there, because it speaks of the neutrality of the isthmus route.Mr. SINOLETON. The guarantee of the United States is for the benefit of the United

States, and on considerations mentioned in the treaty.Mr. THOM1'so.N. Yes. I read from the treaty:" In order to secure to themselves the tranquil and constant enjoyment of these ad-

vantages, and as an especial compensation for the said advantages, and for the favorsthey have acquirell by the fourth, fifth, and sixth articles of the treaty, the UnitedStates guarantee, positively and efficaciously, to New Granada, by the present stipu-lation, the perfect neutrality of the before-mentioned isthmus, with the view thatthe free transit from the one to the other sea may not be interrupted or embarrassedat any future time while this treaty exists; and, in consequence, the United Statesalso guarantee, in the same manner, the rights of sovereignty and property whichNew Granada has and possession over the said territory."

The idea that it is binding only on the United States in regard to a canal to be builtby New Granada is one which I shall in a few moments notice..Mr. HUTVuINS. If that is the interpretation, why would not that necessity lead usinto war with France if the French Government should attempt to interfere with thecanal, and should go so far us to prevent entire neutrality ? Why would we not be-called upon in that case to enforce our guarantee I Is not that affirming the Monroedoctrine in the very strongest terms ?

Mr. ToMPsON. I think so.Mr. HU'CrHINs. If that is so, ought not the United States construct a canal if it has

got to protect its neutrality ? and ihen we could not get into war.Mr. THoMipSON. I have anticipated all those points, and am coining directly to

them. I am only reaching the point which you suggest in a more indirect, and per-haps less satisfa'tory, mode; but I shall reach it indirectly before I an done, becauseit is in my mind.

Mr. H U'rcHNS. It has seemed to me that the only way for the United States to pre-vent a war (and perhaps the greatest war that the country has ever bad) is to haveentire control of the canal for the very reason that the United States have guaranteedits neutrality. If that guarantee extends so far as I think it does, and if the Govern-ment of Colombia has a right to call upon t-is government to guarantee the canalagainst the nations of Europe, it seems to n , that we should be put in condition tofight the whole world.

Mr. MARTIN. Then it would be better to have no canal.Mr. Hu-rcniNs. I think so too, if that is the correct interpretation; but I have been

rather disposed to bold to the interpretation given to the treaty, which is that wewere to guarantee the neutrality of the canal as between the United States of Colom-bia and omrselves. However, that is a complicated question.

Mi. Tio.Npsov. It is, very. With a view to acquireon the part of the United Statesauthority to hold in its own hands the power of guarantee which it seems to have as-sunied in the treaty of 184s, and which m the minls (f almost all of us was very esira-ble, the President of the United States in 1869 undoubt edly supposed that that guaranteein the treaty of 1848 could be made much more effbetive al protective of Americanrights if additional powers were given to us, and a draft was made at the State De-partmient of a. treaty, the first article of which provided that the United States ofColombia agree and consent that the Unitedl States of America shiall make, and thoUnited Statos of America agree to make, the necessary survey for such ship-canail;and, if they ascertain the same to be feasible, then to locate the same together withI

INIEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 113

all its necessary aplpendages and appurtenances, &e. ; and tfhe United States of Co-htnibia stipulate and agree not to undertake or allow the opening of any other inter-oceanic canal, or of any new railway through or across their territory from the Atlantieto the Pacific Ocean, without the express consent of the United States. Then article5 provides that the United States of America shall construct the said canal, with itsappurtenances suitable for the passage of all kinds of vessels, and it goes on to giveto the United Atates the power to do so. But, it says that the iUtted States f Colon-bia shall retain their political sovereignty and jurisdiction, and that the IUnitedStatesof America may devolve all their rights, friutchises, and duties upou any indi-vidual citizen, or association of citizens.

Mr. MARTIN. Citizens of what country-of the United States of America fMr. TImtoPsox. Undoubtedly; because the treaty is there speaking of what tile

United States of America may do. It may construct the canal out of the TreasirN ofthe United states, or may confer the right to do so on any body of citizens of theUnited States.

Mr. SINGWE'roN. I would like to have your opinion on this provision of the treatyof 1S46:

"In order to secure to themselves the tranquil and 4.,inst:unt enuJoyntent of those.advantages, and as an especial ctmlpensation for the said lt lvtoitages. and for thefavors they have acquired by the 4th, 5th, and fit It articles of the treaty, the UnitedStates- gu-tantee, p ositively and eficaciotisly, to New (irnuiadm, by the( pi'tseiit stipn-l-atiou, the perf'eet neutrality ot the before.-MaeMtiorleu isthutims, with the(- view that thetfree transit tiomn the one to the other sea mnay itit be interrupted or etnuariassed atany future tim while this treaty exists; anti, in cens, nee, the I'uiled States alsoguarantee, i the same nianner, the' rights of soven-i"lity :anl lr,l'prty whi,'h NewGranada has tod possesses over the said territory."

That is for the united d States themselves to tin, it considratitiu of' what hos 1enconceded by New Granada to the U'nited States. It is for tlie t'iited States tltisclve".to do this thing, if it is to he doin.

Mr. Tntto:,s().. Yes; I think tlat that i. a true lropositimm, aitd that is why thetreaty of li9 was desired on the part of tie I;overniiimt ot the l'tiled States, so asto put itself in t condition to make its guarantee of neutrality and sovereigntyeflctal. It was a necesslry piart of diploloatic procedure to avomllish tite object.designed by the treaty of i,-S, and therefore those ljtwis to which I have refirredwere expressly conteeded in the Iiraft of a treaty which ctlie ftiol the State )epart-

ent.Mr. SINGLI.'roix. As this is done tot' the blnefit of the United States, tlo' inldeieid-

e(ce of the state with which the agreemtient is made depetids ini a great mea.Aiurt onthe power ,of the 'nitd States to guarantee that hideplepndeuce.

Mr. TiiOMPsoN. I do not know that I am quite prepared to concede it to that ex-tent.

Mr. SLTGLwrON. Yoll said a 1nnent ago that the United States of ('olombia was aperfectly independent ioiwer. Tile indelendence of a state depends it a great measureupon its power to iaijltaln its independence. The United States of Colomhia didaot believe at the time it Itiade this treaty that it was able to naititain its indel)eild-ence, and it therefore emtracted with the Uuited States of Aierica that they shoimldlmaintain that independence for it, aud tow the 4utestimu is, hmo\V fill the I rtted Statesof Ameri'a can llermit this canal to be constructed by a foreign company.

Mr. 'ii'toMtsoN. As t question of legal interpretation I at not inclineil, t go ihu itethat. far. becatise I do not think there oati be any division ot'sovereignty between tvosovereigfi powers. In 1848, when that treaty was made, the inthep indence of theSouth American states had beei, i so t' oar ai any possible aggiessiout from Europe \t sconeerned, satisfactorily and fully established, and New Gram.tda did not at that titereqiuir that the Goverunment of' tht United States should betie its .til tieal giua'diati.In other words, while it was designed to give to the Uiiited Stittes all the power nee-essary to protect.the neutrality of the eanial, and to protect also the sovereignty ofNew Granada, inamiiuchi as tley were independent powers treating between thmen-selves, the stipulation only went to the eteet that it the event of there being a dis-turbance of either by any toreigu power, the United States sloud intervene for pro.-tection. In other words, not that the sovereign power of New Granada or theneutrality of the canal shoid depend upon what tile United States should do, butthat the so reign power was rom plete and perfect it itself, and that the l ailedStates, as a strong ower, stood rather as the guarantor than as the guardian.

Mr. SINGLETON. Precisely tho same relations as the United States bear to the Stalesof the Union-the guarantor of their sovereignty.

Mr. TIIOMPSON. I do not think so, because the States of the Union are not il tiasense sovereign.

Mr. MARniN. We had bettor avoid flit discussion this nionihig. There mau Ie alargo difference o' opinion abttit. We had better canalnie orselIes to the qutestiot

I i:.' of the canals.

14 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

Mr. TI'uioxi ,so. This treaty of 1%9, which was undoubtedly designed to give to theUnited States the power which they did not feel they possessed under the treaty of1848, was communicated by Mr. Johnson to the Senate of the United States, but wasnot ratiied, and has not yet been ratified. It is quite proper to assume that the UnitedSlates authorities considered in 1669 that the plenary power which it is sometimes

u plposed may exist in them had not been conferred by the treaty of 1848, and that inorder to leave that question an undisputed one in the future, it. became necessary to

alitike the additional treaty of 1A69, conceding those powers. That treaty was signedby the plenipotentiary of the United States of Colombia, and was by the Pres-ideut of the United States laid before the Senate, and was not ratified, so that whenthe United States of Colombia proposed to the Government of the United Statesof America that it should take to itself the power to do all those things which by theliberal interpretation of the treaty of 1848 it may be supposed it had tfie power to do,the Government of the United States declined. In other words, it declined either tobuild the canal itself or to impose the obligation to build it upon any of its citizens.llene the treaty of 1848 was left as it was. But in 1870 an additional treaty was nego-tiated by our minister in Colomd,ia, and was signed by hin and by the plenipotentiary ofthe government t of Colombia, which treaty is very mueh, almost substantially, likethetreaty oif 1869, in so far as the question of governmental power and control goes. Thattreaty was also communicated to the Senate of the United States, and was not con-firmed. So that on both of those ec(asions-in 1869 and 1870-when the United Statesof Colombia proposed by her authorities to confide to the Unitt'd States of kmericaentire power and control over the canal, and the authority to build it, either by anappropriation of money out of the public treasury, or by an organization of its owncitizens, the Government of the U nited States declined to accept, that power, and thusthe gaurantee that is fiunl existing in the treaty of l48is left to be executed itecord-ing to tle interpretation which the. two governments have given to it. So that intsui4, when tbe Government of Spain inadle the attempt to transport troops and muni-lion.s across the PaIalula Ralroad for the purpose of carryingon war against Peru,the Govvrnment of Colombia called upon the Government of the United States to in-tervene under this treaty of 1848, and to protect Colombia in maintaining the right ofneutrality acros, that isthuis. And the Government of the United States assented tothat interpretation of the treaty.

Mr. Sxn1l.''ON. The point that I wish to bring to your mind is this: If any rightof the Finitel States of Colombia is invaded in the construction or operation, of thiscanal, by any foreign corlMany, is it not your understanding that it is the duty of theUnited ,tates to intervelie f

Mr. TFon PS i N. I' ldonbledly so,Mr. SlN,;LETO.V. Then while I a greo with you that no airinative action at all is

ilecessary on the part of tle United States, still the United States Government shouldrestv'e to itself the right to control this transit, should it become necessary at anyfuture time.

Mr. TIlo r5~N. I will conlie in the emre of my argument to that point presently.The rejection of these two propositions of 1869 and 1570 left the treaty of 1648 in force,with its gnrantees standing. My theory is that those being there, the Ulnited Statesof Coiobia was left in the full possession of all itssovereignty, and that the exerciseof its sovereign power as an independent government over its own domestic affairsWas i thing to be decided by itself and for itself without being subjtvet to any foreignitervention. And more especially was it the practical preservation of tlat greatpriniciplle ofhself-goveriiiient that what was5 calledl tile ''Monroe doctrine " was anl-vionntctd. Therefore, a8 the unitedd States of Colombia were. pertetly indepenlentluver their own dloniestiC atfillr1t, and as they had a Ilertect rightf to decide for themn-Nelves whether there should or should niot be internal iaprovetnentm, that governmentlin the year 1878 granted at charter to Nvwhat was called the Inte-rual luteroceanie CanalAssociation, contceding to it the right to btild a canal avroKs the Isthmus of Panattia.That charter wait granted o) the lsth of May, 1878. It was grantted through theagellcy of an officer of the French Navy, who wivs the representative and agent (asthe charter avows otn its face) of this Interittional Ilteroceanie Assoiation, actingrat her in a dijdomnatie c.apacity. That charter proIvidles lbr tile righlt to build a canal

avro.rss the Isthous of Panama ; but the Government of Colombia was desirous (ofcourse) to offend none oif the powers interested in the neutrality (If tle canal, and itprovided ex 1lrelisly on the face of the charter, and by its terms, that the neutrality ofthe canal, whletlsnever coinstructl, and by whomsoever constructed, shall bepremrvedto the nlltions of the world. And in order to its preservation as against all Iasiblepolitical agencies, or nl1 possible political systems other than that which prevailed in('ohomia, it is stiplated il that charter that there shall be 11t1 right whatsoever (iatis Conlcedel in that charter) eonfernd upon any nati( n or foreign government. It isahsolitely prlhilnt'd to will or mortgage those franehiwe, under all condition what-eve'r, t,, aiy nation or foreign. government. If they tre so conceded or mortgaged, Atht carter shall be forfeited.

INrEROZ.EANIC SHIP CANAL. 115

The great question, therefore, is as to how this thing afrects the power of the gov-ernmeuts of the world; uot. -s to how it affects citizens and private individuals, butas to how it aifibets powers and governments. If Colombia has the sovereign right togrant a charter for the construction of a canal, and provides h that charter that byno possibility shall any government whatsoever on earth have any of the rights orprivileges assigned in it, does it not do (if in connection with that saie idea the ne-trahty of the canal is guaranteed) all that the Governiuenit oif the United States canexpect on the question of guarantee ?

Mr. SINGLETON. Does that take away the duty of a government to protect its citi-zens! Does not the duty devolve upon the government to prottet its citizens?

Mr. Tnio.i's. N. Undoubtedly. I shall cover that part fully in my arguinent. Iani dealing with the question as it affects powers and governments. In so fin' aaindividuals are concerned, it is undoubtedly the duty of the Government of theUnited States to protect its own citizens, just as it is the (uty of every other gocern-meat to protect its citizens. Tile idea which I sorieo to sig,,,est, (inunediatelyfollowing what I have said) is this, that if the Governinent of Colombia hadauthority bV virtue of its sovereign power to grant these chartered rights, thenthe citizens on whom these rights were conferred can only eniioy them underthe laws and institntions of CoT'ombia. In other words, they become a domesticceorporation-a private domestic corporation-answverable oily to the laws of Colom-hia, and not answerable to the laws of tv fonign govertimneit. Insomuch, there-tore, they become, practically, citizens of Colombia, in the enjoyment of all their char-tered rights. They are to lie dealt with in their relations to all other governments(so long as they hold the frauchise under the Colombian law) as Colombian citizens.And yet the citizen (whether he lives in his own country or another country) has iot,by acquiring those rights in Colombia, so far lost his piimlary right of citizenship as'that his own government may not protect him to all necessary extent, whatsoever, ifhis rights are invaded. 'or example, those who go to Colomlhia to enjoy the rightsconferred b. this charter (still holding their primary relations to their own governments),if their rights are invaded by Colonloia, or if" they are invaded by an1y other governmentwith the assent. of Coloimbin, or if they are invaded by @ny other government withoutthe assent of Colombia, have the right to call on their own government for protectionagainst that invasion, and then it becomes the duty of their own governuient to grant it.Bu t the idea which I tim trying to convey is this, that there miust be an invasion of someot' their rights under the charter before their own government cna properly interveneto protect them, for so long as they choose, by a sort of seni expatriation, to putthemselves under foreign law, to acquire property by virtue of that law, and to relyfor the protection of all their rights on that law; so long is they remain in that condi-tion, aud in the enjoymieut of1 all their rights clearly and tl tislactorily, their own gov-ernment would neither be justified in interfering, nor wouht they be justified in call-ing on it to interfere. The principle of international law, I take it, is clearly estab-lished Io that effect. This Panama Canal Company is to all intents and purposes adomnetic, private corporation. Had the United States of Colombia a. right to grant acharter to this company I Undoubtedly it had, because that is the exercise of itsown sovereignty. It pertains to its sovereignty. It is t necessary part of it. TheU united States of Colombia have provided that no power and no government foreignto themselves shall have anything to do with the conpan- atiu with its rights. AFrench company is organized just as ilthe case of the Nicamagan grant it is proposedto organize an American company. In either case, whether by at special law of theUnited States, or by the general law of France under which F'renchntion act, all therislt which either France or the United States can confer on their citizens is tI' rightot domestic organization, and the right to organize, to mo anld bi sued, for Ithle sub-seriptiou of stock and the collection of money. No farther can they go. for it willnot ht pretended on the part of anybody that either Ite United States or the Gov-ernment of Franco an confer rights ont any of tlnlir citizens ini Coombia. Thewerights iinit depend on Colombian law, anid not on the aclion of either of those gov-ernmletts.

Mr. MARTIN. When Mr. dA Lesops wa lien' ,ith ntS he slid thlat hie priio'd tobuild this canal tnder t renlch charter, aid not ,under aO hatter ifro the d UnitedStates of Colmiia. That is how we underbtiood him.

Mr. Tmoiwso . I think that that was the public mndtrmtming, lut u. it d alloft us, if Mr. de Leseps or anybody elsA proposes to baild a amva!d at I'.tumam under

re Fm-h etrter cowierring on him the' right to do it, thltvr- is I tit, -o. - o, for theexorcise of the Ipwer of the gliarante, antd the Goverunment ti the liimted States isbound to interfe-e.

Mr. MARiN. In the beginning of this nitatter, and when the excit'inient tirAt lhrokmit, (lid we n-t even Mend vesels of wari doVn there to establish ieoaling stations .

Mr. Titowz.,oN. Yes.Mr. MAIlTI.1. But if tie Monroi doctrine was not to prevail, why did we do that .Mr. n|o.Mp i'N, If you permit ine, I will explain my understanding of that. Per-

116 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL,

haps I might not to do it, but I will do it to this extent: It wan in order to put our-selves in a position to guard against eventuflities, so that if there should come a timewhen it became necessary to use the guarantee under the treaty of 1848, either to pro-tect the neutrality of the canal or the sovereignty of New Gruaada, we should bethere to intervene. And at that point I say we ought, to intervene. My mind on thatsubject has never undergone any change.

MIr. MARTIN. Then I take it tr granted that you do not abandon the Monroe doc-trine I

Mr. Ttio.ipsox. At the time when this project was first suggested we all acceptedit as a proposition on the part of a French company to build a canal there underFrench auspices. It was not exactly known what ha been done or what private orsecret arrangement between Colowlbia and France was contenmplated. But the Gov-ernment of tie United Stytes, and all of us who insisted on the reasonable application ofour powers, to aniy existing state of the catw, said: "The French Government, as a gov-ermnent, must not intervene. It has got no political power there. The neutrality ofthis canal is guaranteed to all the nat ions of the earth, and France must not be permittedto assume any prerogattive 1 power over tlint neutrality. Now, the right to interfere atthat point on our ride does not depend upon the Monroe doctrine, as I understand it,but it de pends li ill the guarantee in tie treaty of l 4S. And I go further than thatand say that we have, in additionto thait, the primary tnil ufl tinnative existing powerto interfere as against a foreign goverulnelt.

Mr. SNLu..ro. .Perhals you recollet the cvotelisioms reached by this contmittee onthe subject, and the joint resolution reported by it to tlhe House.

Mr. TmPo-.ws.oX. I do not think I do.Mr. SI.SGi.:ox. They are in llerfcct harmouy with the messtge of tle l'resident.

So far ais this. lhi.lct is concerned, the colultitec has disposed of it in its report tothe flouse.

The Cu.i i. Y handed Mr. Thuonpson a copy of the joint resolution.Mr. I'llmoP,'Nx readl tl first sevl oll, as follows:

That tie estat lislutent of any form of protectorate by any one of the )ow ers ofEurope over any of' the indepe, lnt states of this continent, or the introduction fromany quarter of a scheme or policy which would carry with it a right to any Europeanpower to interfere with lheir concerns, or to countroflinany othernanner tleir destiny,or the tranllsfr to ity such power, by conquest, cession, or aA'quisition in any otherway, of any of tho.. states, or iny jinrtfon therv,'f, is a nkeamsur to which this govern-ment has, in the dertlaration ot president Monroo in his message of December 2d,1623, and know it-% the MonreO dot'riur, avoweod its opposition, and which, shouldthe attempt be inade, it will regard and treat at dangerous to our peace, prosperity,and safety."

Undoubtedly so; I hate jtst bee-i arguing to show that this question has relationto the powers of Europe and to the go% crnlients of Europe.

Mr. SixN-ro . Th"e evond action of the joint resolution, however, is llio oneN hioh asserts the pirliosO of the United States Government.

Mr. Titeul'soN road the second Rection, as follows:

"sa.c. 2. That it is fle interest and right of the United Statesto have the possession,direction, control. and government of any canal railroad, or artificial communica-lion to be constriltcted arross tile istllllils eoinetng the Ameriean continents for thetransfer of vessels and cargoes from tim Caribbean Pea to the Paciflc Ocean, whethertile sante be biilt or constructed at. t'amim, Nicaragnua, or elsewhere; and in viewof the ulagntude ot' this interest, it is the duty of the United states to insiat that ifbuilt, luld by whounsoever the same may be comwtenced, proseuted, or completed,and whatever the nationality of fts cot'porators or the source of their capital, thatthe interest of the U'nited States, and their right to potisw and control the said ,analor other alrtiflcial communication w ill be asserted and niniutained whenever in theiropinion it shall become necessary."

I have not any doubt at all but that, under this second section, the United Statescan get all the control it desires over any of those routes. I take it for granted thatif Captain Ea4s were to construct his ra: road at Tehuantepec, the Government of Mex-ico would consent to such a prnotoItorate as would protect all the rights given in thecharter.

3r. SINULETON. In that resolution we wait.e the tinestion as to who may coustrnetthe canal, but we simply assert the right of the United Statea (in case It becomesnecessary to our independence or commerce) to exercise control over it.

Mr. TaoStoN. Yes. One word as regards the second auction of the resolution.The French Government ham repudiated all idea of having anything to do with thecanal. It has notified the Government of the United States that it h&a nothing to dowith it; that it will not asume any responsibility for it, nor eWtabllsh any protec-torate over it. But suppooe the Panama Canal Company should go on and the workshould progress, and that at any tkne in Its progress, or after it is finished, any power

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 117

of Europe (and more especially the French power) should undertake to do what thatjoint resolution says-establish a protectorate over the canal-a question would arisewhether, under the power given to the United States by the treaty of 1848, we have

not the right to interfere at that point andt prevent it. I say that we have.Mr. SINGLEroN. The contingency for the seco,_d section of the joint resolution may

never arise.Mr. TtOMPSON. It may never arise; but if it does arise the power exists. No mat-

ter whether it be derived from the Monroe doctrine or some other doctrine, or fromthe treaty of 1848, it is an existing power, so that at any time in the future wheneverthe state of things contemplated by this joint resolution shall arise the United Statesmay intervene. The probability is that if the Government of France should undertaketo acquire any power over that canal by virtue of the fact that her citizens were con-cerned in it, that would be regarded by Colombia as an invasion of her sovereignright, and she wouldl call upon the Uiited States to execute the guarantee, and theUnited States would undoubtedly do it just as it did in 1864, Ani I go further thanthat, and I say that the United States has the affirmative power, under the treaty of1848, to do that thing without being called upo by Colombia, because it is apart of thestipulations of the treaty that the United States |all protect the sovereignty of Co-lombia. Inasmuch, therefore, u the Colombian (;overinent has granted a privatecharter, just as the United States Government does, the persons acting under thecharter stand for all the purposes of the charter just as in Mexico my friend CaptainEads does stand for the time being-a citizen of Mexico. The corporation under whichhe acts is a corporation of Mexico, and so in regard to those charters that have beengiven for the construction of railroads in Mexico. There is express provision in everyone of them that the members of the corporation (who are primarily citizens of theUnited States) are to be, is citizens of Mexico. answerable to the laws of Mexico.But it is provided, also, that if they undertake to eonter any of the rights and priv-ileges granted to them by their charter on any foreign government, that moment thecharter shall be considered m forfeited.

There is a double protection, therefore, as against the Government of France. Thereis, first, the protection furnished by the interests of the corporators. They would notexpose their charter to forfeiture by attempting to confer it on a foreign government.Then there is the second protection that the Government of Colombia would not per-mit hor sovereignty to be invaded. Then, if, as against both of these contingencies,the French Government should undertake to interfere with the possession of any of thoserights, there is the power of guarantee on the part of the United States, and, conse-quently, the United States Government holds the key in its own hands, so that thevery moment that any foreign power or government shall undertake to interfere, thenthe power of the United States to enforce the guarantee becomes effective, and theUnited States Government can then say: "Thus far shalt thou go and no farther."

Mr. SINGLETON. I do not understand that there is any conflict whatever betweenyour views and the views of this committee. The comnin-ttee dnos not propose, by anyaction, to throw any obstacle or difficulty in the way of what the Panama Canal Coin-Irany proposes to do. The committee has acted on that subject. It has reserved alla9c ioi for a future Congress, if the contingency should arise that would make it aeces-kary for Congress to act at all. That contingency may never arise. MN. de Lessepsmay go on and build his canal, and that canal may be operated for a whole centuryso as to give entire satisfaction to the United States, and no contingency or necessitymay arise during that whole period for any interference on the part of the Unitedstates , or any other declaration in couneotiou with It.

Mr. TumueM4ox. I frankly state that that is the very conclusion which I desiredreaching, and have reachedl in my argument.

Mr. VN wL-RTOx. That is the couclusmon to which the committee ha long since, come.You are not propoding any action on the part of the chommitt,. The committee hastaken action on the subject, and has said that it will not interfere in any way at thelresent time, but that if the necessity should ever arise the government shall havethe right to do it.

Mr. MAUnrI. If all that bo true (and I do not dispute it) I would like toknow whythis committee issitting and hearing arguments. If we propose no affirmative action,It seems to me that our work is a work of supererogatiou. I do not comprehend whythis comwitto is sitting if nothing is to 1e done. I supposed that there were severalpropositions before the committee, and that the committee was expected and requiredto take affirmatIve or negative action on *ome of them. That, l supposd all the timewas the legitimate province and duty of the committee; and for that reason I wasvery desirous of hearing all the gentlemen interested, espccially Mr. Thompson.

Mr. TnouPsoN. I have said that I do not intend to grapple with the great questionof building railroad. or canals. I am quite willing to stop where I am. I see thatthe views of the committee and mine correspond on the general question, and there-fore I am not dislosl to trespais on the committee.

Adjonrad till Wednesday, 19th Instant.

118 ]NTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

WASH IGTON, D. C., Jannary 19, 18l.

STATEMENT OF MR. S. L. PHELPS-CONTNrUED.

Mr. S. L. rIELPs came before the committee, and, in answer to an inquiry made ofhim at a previous neetixig as to the e6tinuated Lusiness of an inter-oceanic ship-canalsubnitcd the following paper:

WASHING'rTON, January 15, 1881.Hon. J. FLOYD KiNG, M[. C.,Chairman Special Conmintee, Intei oceaiic Canal:

SIR: I desire to lay before you the following statement of business which might beexpected for a ship-canal if now in operation, as derived from various estimates:

Tons.Estimate made by Admiral C. H. Davis, in a report to the Senate, 1866 4, 000, 000-Committee on Statisties (portion), Paris Congress.. ................ 3,762,000De Lesseps and Lavas iLr, Paris Congress ...... .................... 6,000,000Mr. Ninuo's report with reductions made from his deduitious ........... 1, 65, 000.Mr. Ninmmo's tables with such corrections a the trade justifies.... 3,706,000Estiite -san Fiancisco Board of Trade ............................. 5, 000, 000

24,093, 420

Meanu of six estimates ............................................ 4,015,5704,015,571 tons at $2.50per ton gives gross receipts of ................. $10, 038, 927

Vcry respectfully,S. L. PHELPS.

Mr. Phelps also submitted a copy of the concession granted by the Republic of Nic-aragua to the Provisional Interoccanic Canal Society for a ship-canal across thatcountry; confirmed May 22, 1580.

He then proceeded to respond to the objections suggested by Mr. Conger, at a formermeeting of the committee, to the bill introduced in the House of Representatives toincorporate the Nicaragua Canal Company.

To the first objection-that the bill contained no provision for the offices and placesof meeting-he slated that in preparing the bill, he had followed the precedent of theact of Congress incorporating the Northern Pacific Railroad Company which fixedBoston as the place for the first meeting, but left, the time and place offiuture meet-ings to be fixed by the board of directors. He had no objection, however, to havingthe bill amended by the inseitiou of New York as the place for the offices of the com-pany.

To the second objection-as to the omission of the place and manner of servingprocess and papers in matters of litigation--he made a like answer; that n such pro-vision was found in the act incorporating the Northern Pacific Railroal Company.He had no objection to any amendment on that point.

To the third objcetion-lhat the, bill did not give the United States Governmentpower to control or regulate tolls--he stated that there was no right on the part ofthe government to control tolls; and that the Government of Nicaragua had, in theconcession, limited the tolls in confornity with the existing treaty between the UnitedStates and Nicaragua. That treaty limited the net profits of a canal company to 15per cent. ; and the 50th article of the concession made the follov ing pro-vision :

"From the gross receipts of the enterprise the company shall first reserve sufficientfor the preservation, management, and administration of the canal, all necessary sumato secure interest upon its funded debts, obligations, and shares, which interest shallnot exceed six per centum per annum, and for sinking fund; and what remains shallform the net gains, of which at least 80 per cent, shall be divided among shareholders,it being understood, after ten years from the time the caual is completed, the companycannot divide anongit the shareholders, either by direct dividends or indirectly, bissuing additional shares, or otberwis3, more than 15 per cont. annually, or in thisproportion, for dues collected from the canal, and when it is discovered that the chargesiniforce produce a greater net gain, hey will be reduced to the basis of 15 per cent.per y-ar.

To the fourth objection-that the bill provided for a forfeiture of stock on 30 (lays'notice, being absolute at the pleasure of the directors-he stated that the like pro-vision was contained in the Northern Pacific Railroad act of incorporation, which hehad consulted in preparing the bill.

To the fifth objection-that the bill contains no requirement that more than one-tenth of the stock shall be subscribed, or that more than one-tenth of that shall bepaid in-he made a similar statemgnt. He added that the canal might be completed

4 1'

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 119within 5 or 6 years, and that it was proposed to call in the subscription money in in-stallmnents, as it was needed, and to allow, in the final settlement, interest at the rateof 5 per cent. on the sums actually paid up. If it was thought that a subscriptiouanid payment of one-tenth was too small, the proportion might be increased,

To the sixth query-" Why have a United States charter ?"-he replied that it wouldbe impossible to obtain subscriptions for the canal on a charter issued by the Govern-ment of Nicaragua.

To the seventh qu,ry-" Why give powers dependent upon the will of another gov-ernment, and thus bind an American company to conform to the will of a foreign gov-ernment ?"lhe replied : The canal company or society has solicited from the Governi-went of Nicaragua a concession of right to construct the canal; and it now asks theI lted States to incorporate the company here and to give to it the authority to proceedto do what Nicaragua says it may do. The company being perfectly willing to be boundby the conditions of the concession, I do not know that that is a question that need boconsidered.

In conclusion he asked that the names of Lambert Tree and Edward T. Smith shouldbe added to the names of incorporators.

Mr. HASKELL. This company would have the protection of the United States Gov-ernment and courts.

Mr. PHELPS. That is the purpose and object of the company.Mr. HASIEI, I.. So that unless the government reserves the right to regulate tolls, it

would be placed in the position of being obliged (perhaps at great expense) to defendthe company at all times, without the power to protect its commerce (passing throughthe canal) from exorbitant tolls.

Mr. PUELI'S. The government has exercised that power already in the provisioui ofthe treaty with Nicaragua.

Mr. HASKElI.. The treaty does not provide for any rates of toll.Mr. PELPs. The treaty'limits the amount of net profits, and in that way limits th

tolls. The net earnings are not to exceed 15 per cent. If you can suggest an amend-ment that would (ve r the point, I should be very willing to have it put hi the bill.

Mr. HUTCHINS. Might not the Government of Nicaragua undo anything which wemight do on that subject? Can we do anything more than is authorized in the con-cession to be done

Mr. HASKMLL. But we would be then in a condition to prol let ourselves when ourinterference was invo]ed.

Mr. PHELPS. You do derive from the treaty the right to put a limit on tolls, and ifyou confine yourselves to that right yon.u( can very easily make that amendment. Ishould he very glatl to have the amendment made, because I never did like Article 5Wof the concession, md since I have seen the De Lessep" circular I like it less.

Aljoin (d.

WASIIINnTON., I). ('..

Jau ry 20, FI8t.

REMARKS OF 'MR. JAMES B. EADS.

Mr. JA..s B. EA Ds appeared before the committee, and, before proceeding withhis argument, read the following speech delivered by Mr. Silas Dent before the SaintLouis Board of Trade, in seconding certain resolution relative to the proposed shil,railway:

Mr. CHAIRMAN - Ii seconding these resolutions it is but just to s1ay that oar distin-guished citizen has, in the success of his negotiations, proven hinmlf to beas accom-plished a diplomat as his works have shown him to be a skillful engineer.

There are considerations embraed in this subject, which are partly professional-with me, that give it peculiar interest, and which only seamen and navigators canfully appreciate, but which you will at once understand the importance of, as soon asthey are brought to your attention. Nor will you fail to perceive, with equal readi-njs, that they give additional force to the arguments just used by Captain Ends infavor of Tehuantepec as the locality for his railways.

Mere statement of the difference in miles, between the distance from New Orleans toChina or San Francisco, by the various routes, of Panama, Nicaragu, and Tehuante-pec, is a very inadequate measure of the difference in time that would be occupied bysailing voels in making those several passages between those terminal points. Andwhen we consider that three-fourths of the ocean commerce of the world is carried insailing vesels, you can se what an important factor this question o sailing lime be-oomes in the solution of the problem before us.

120 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

To show you the cause of this great difference in time, I will beg your attention fora few moments to this map.

The northeast trade winds, which extend across the Atlantic, are so broken and in-terrupted when they eneonlter the West India Islands, that they never penetrate theCaribbean Sea; but the northwest portion of them, however, do extend into the Gulfof Mexico, and often so far down as to reacji well towards Tehuantepec; so thatwhilst, in the Gulf, winds are always found, yet the Caribbean Sea remains a region ofalmost relentless cahs.

Nor is this all; for the mountain range, extending the length of the Isthmus ofPananm axid through Central America, oflrs a still more formidable barrier to thepassage of these winds, thus throwing them still higher into the upper regions of thatmosphere, and extending these calms far' out into the Pacific Ocean, on the parallelof Panama, and which extend with lessening width for fifteen or eighteen hundredmiles to the northwest ahng the coast of Central America.

Tbis whole region of eahus, both in the Caribbean Sea and in the Pacific Ocean. areso well known to navigators that sailing vessels always shun them if possible, thoughthey may have to run a thousand miles out of their way to do so.

This absence of wind of coarse leaves this vast area exposed to the unmitigatedheat of a torrid sun, except when relieved momentarily by harassing squalls in thedry season and by the deluging rainfalls of the wet sea-on.

With these meteorological facts in view, let us now suppose that Lessqps' canal atPanama and Eads' railwavy at Tehuantepec are both completed anti in r'uning order;then let us start two sailing ships, of equal tonnage and equal speed, from the mouthof the Mississippi, with cargoes for China, one to .o by the way of the Panama Canalanti the other by the way of the Tehuantepec Railwa y, and I venture to affirm thatby the time the Panama vessel has cleared the canal and floats in tle waters of thePacific, the Tehuantepec vessel will have scaled that isthmus and be we'i on the me-ridian of the Sanwvieh Islands, and that before the "brmer vessel can worry throughthe fifteen or more hundred miles of windless ocean before her to reach the trale-winds to the westward of Tehuantepec, the latter will have sped five thousand mileson her way across the Pacific, and lie full thirty days ahead of her adversary. For itis a tact worth mentioning here that the strength (;f the northeast trade-winds in thePacific, as well as the maximum strength of tlae northern portion of the great e(lua-toial current in that ocean, are both found on or near the parallel of* lattude ofTfchuantepti', the former blowing with an impelling force to the westward of ten ortwelve miles an hour, and the latter with a following strength of three or four milesper hour,

Of these three proposed routes hitherto surveyed for ship-canals, viz, the Panama,the Nicaragua, and the Tehuantepec, the Nicaragua seems to have received the gen-eral pilefcreime of Americans, because on that route is found an extensive lake at sonear the summit-level that it is thought j can be used as a feeder to the locks of thecanal in Ith directions.

Neither the Panama nor the Telhnantepee have such a reservoir. But Eads' rail-way reqnires no such reserve of water supply, and Mr. de Lessops proposes to dispensewith Icks in his canal by itmaking a clean cut from ocean to ocean across the isthmus.To do this the bed of his canal Uwill, of course, have to be some forty feet belowthe lowest surface level of the two oceaus at its ends; and were this once accom-plikhed, there wold, I am sure, he a current of three miles an hour setting to thewe~t through his canal that would do much towards keeping it free of sediment;hot how i' is to dig his canal aud keep it, dry for construction when his excavationhas gotten below the ocean level and he cal no longer drain it, is a mystery to me,ftr the torTential rains that prevail there for half the year are so overwhelming and''sistlems in their floods tlit his canal will fill faster than he can dig it, whatever maybe the means taken to prevent it. I

I therefore regard this project an impossible engineering achievement, short of anoutlay of four or five hundred millions of dollars.

On the other hand, this novel proposition of Captain Ends to carry ships on a rail-way comumends itself to my judgment as being both practical and feasible; for whenwe remember that all vessels when launched from their building ways, though theymay bi' fully equipped and with car go all on board, as is sometimes the case, restupon and mire supported by little cradles that do not cover one-fifth of their underS'mfice, ani yet they are subjected to no under strain; then why should it be nn-reaso8mible to believe, that a railway fifty~ fet in width, with twelve lines of rails,upon which rest immovable wheels, supi;orting a cradle the full width of the vessel,however large, and cushioned tmipn seinigs that yield and give to the mlightest ine-quality of the road, camnot transport in perfect security and ease the heaviest vesselthat flotso and at any speed that may be desired I

To my mind there is no difficulty in the way that cannot be readily overcome byengineeringg and mechanical skill; neither in the construction of the road nor iu ti

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 121

necessary machinery to haitdle and carry vessels of any size and of' any weight acrossthe easy gradients of the Tehuantepee Isthmus.

And 1 further believe that such a railway can be built at half the cost, and in halfth time-yes, in one-third the time, that any canal can be constructed; and thatwhilst the railway, fox many reasons, would be of greater practical benefit to the com-merce of the world at large than a canal, it would be in that locality of immeasurablygreater advantage to both the commerce and the political well-being of our ownucountry.

I therefore second these resolutions.

Mr. Eads then proceeded with his argumnicl. When, he said, we view the Teltuan-tepee route in connection with the defense of it-in a military point of view-we see thaf t it is only necessary to place one or two iron.clads in the channel of Yuca-tan, anl one or two in the Florida channel, with some auxiliary troops. It makes acomplete landlocked sea (if the Gulf of Mexico under the entire dominion of the UnitedStates and Mexico. the two nations most directly interested in this transit. If itshould become necessary to protect the works by land forces, you could march 150,000nmen through Mexico to the works without difficulty, there being a railroad from La-redo to Mexico, from Et Paso to Mexico, and from Mexico to Vera Cruz. Anotherrailroad would bring the troops within 109 miles of Tehuantepec. If you undertaketo protect the Nicaragua route, you must do it with war vessels, for it would bealmost impracticable to march troops so far from the base ot supplies, through a ter-ritory where there are no railroads, and throu h a mountainous region interruptedIby vast extents of tropical growth. They won d have to march 1,200 miles further toget to Panama, and 700 miles further to Nicaragua.

Mr. SINIETON. What do yoll believe would be the amount of tonnage coming fromthe western coast?

Mr. EAS.. It is stated bv authoritative merchants in San Francisco that the exportof wheat from California will this year amount to 900,000 tons, and from Oregon to200,000 tons. The wheat exportation is increasing very rapidly. A million tonis ofwheat would give us $5,00,(0M in tolls, and that without taking into considerationthe passage of the ships that would go for the wheat:

Mr. l'AO. How much does it cost now to ship wheat from San Francisco aroundthe Horn !

Mr. EADS. From $15 to $20 a ton.Mr. PA(;E. How much across the isthms ,Mr. EADS. Five dollars a ton.Mr. SNoLETON. Have you estimated what the additional cost would be per ton

from San Francisco to the isthmus, and from the isthmus to the port of destination,ao as to compare that with the cost around the Horn I

Mr. EAPS. There would be cut off by that transit to Liverpool about ?-,000 milesThe CIIAIRMAN. What is the whole distance around the lornMr. EADS. It is 14,000 milem round the Hoist from California to New York and about

15,000 to Liverpool.The CHAIRMAN. It would cut off more thai one-half the distance ?Mr. EADS. Considerably more. Twelve dollars t ton would pay a slhip for carrying

it from California to Lverpool, including the $5 per ton.Mr. PAME. What time would it take ffor a vessel loaded with wheat to go from San

Francisco to Liverpool IMr. EADs. For a, steam vessel it would save about 10 days, and for a sailing vessel

about 40 days. With regard to the development of the wheat industry in California,I do not suppose it has reached one-fifth of what it wi!1 be. I had excellent opportu-nities of looking into this matter, and I rode twenty-t %o miles alongside of one gentle-man's wheat field. With regard to the grant which Mexico has given, I urged theGoverntient of Mexico that it should put in a clause by which I lie United States couldIte brought in to aid this enterprise, and that was the most difficult feature which Ihad to overcome iu ti whole concession. It occupied at least two weeks' discussion.The Mexicans were jealous of giving the right to any government whatever to acquireanything in the nature ot eminent doinain or control over that route. They finallyagreed to put in the clause which I wanted, which enables me to offer to the UnitedStates the terms of carrying its ships of war and mails and other property belong-ing to the government free for the period asked for the guarantee, 99 years. Thefurther right, will be granted to the United States. not simply to regulate the tolls,lint to discriminate in favor of American andl Mexican cmnmeree in those regulations.Mexico gives 1,000,000 acres to aid the enterprise, a right of way one-half mile wideacross the isthmus, and, what is worth much more, the right to import free of dutythrougrhont the whole 99 years all the material which shall be necessary for the con-structon of the railway its enlargement, and the keeping it in order. It exempts theproperty from taxationfkor 99 years. The cheaper we can construct it, the cheaper canAmerican commerce be transported across it. She goes still further. She exemptsfrom an export duty of 6 per cent. all the moneys which it may be necessary for the

122 NTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

railway company to send abroad to pay dividends or to pay its debts. Now. I come,to the United States and I ask that they shall do something in this matter. Our nearneighbor guarantees to protect the eilterpriso against the world at her own expense.It' ste needed aid she would call upou this nation quicker than upon any other.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose she should fail to do so, would we have the right under thebill to do soI

Mr. EADS. Most assuredly we have the right, as guarantors, to step ill and protet.tie enterprise.

The CHAIRMAN. The Mexican Government undterstands that .Mr. EkDs. It is not stated; but it is common sense. We come to the l'nited State.

and show what our sister republic has done, and we have before us the ftct that ofour total foreign (ommerce, Which ib enormous, the Unitel states (ontrols only about5 per cent.

The CHAIRMAN. That 1i t large estimate.Mr. EAT'S, continuing, said that it was very important that commercial relationis

should lie cultivated between the United States mid Mexico, and cited the fact thatthe governmentt of Mexico had sent him home in a war vessel, as at mark of respect tthis government. He hardly believed it possible that the United States won 141 turnaround and say that though it had the right to pay for tke transportation of ships ofwar through the Suez Canal, it had not the right to bargain with that canal companyto carry ships for :10 or 90 years, and that therefore it had no right to bargain witihis company for the trainportatiou of ships aud mails. He asked the government toguarau tee t vo-tlrds of the ialtital stock necessary for the construction of the railway.

Mr. C cm ,NEi, (counsel for Mr. Eads) then read the bill which Mr. Eads desireda('tirl 1111l11, ill Order to show the coulmmittee what .aid tile govelllllelt wa-.s a,,kd togivi to the etlterlprie.

Adjournid.

V AsIIINGT x, , 1). C. *Tuaary 21, 1--l.The folloillg h ttvr was submited to the committe:

W,,ASHIINGTON , D. ., o]JIMUM- l'21. 1

Ih1,1. J. FLOYD KIx,.(Ilirmfoo &lect (Committee on Inlcroctaiic (anal:

girt: I take the liberty of ugaili suggesting the advantage your (olnittec \ ill

drive froilt hl\viug the opinion of railroad and vivil engineers of known characterand ability, ofconstruetors and shipbuilders, and of owners ofriteamships, all of whoinlave special infioraltiol iecesStmy, as it whole, to properly consider the project of a

ship-railway aIcross the isthmus, mid especially in coniparnig its econonaic aspectswith those of the Nicaragua Canal. No one would be so competent to intbri N ou austo making and maintaining a level atilway-track where heavy cuts and fills haveto be made, as a railroad engineer iio o110 would beable to tell you so well as an ableand disinterested civil engineer (of what may be regarded as engineering possibitities asdistiniguishalo from commercial practicabilities ; no mrson could say so well as coil-struitors ani shiplinilde.rs what strains shi pa will bear without ilijurmy, and wlmitconditions will imperil their safety, alid no class of persons can say better than ship-owners what insurance companies wold demand for insurance through a vanal orover a railway, or the rates of toll which vessels could afford to pay for vaial or rail-way transit, and which route they would choose if both were open for traffic, I cansay that a corresipondence that I have had with shipbuilders and insurance agents inilowise 1 avors at railway. Oine writes that whii at vessel is put into at dry dock, a

necessary prvlimiuiarv i to discharge her cargo; this, too, when the lounlation is-perfct, lineage carefully made, and shores ise'to give lateral support a4 fir as it cabe done hi that amer. Another shipbuilder informs nie that however ingenious thedevices iny Ie- to distriliito the weight of a heavy lnas over a large surface, thatplractich ly, in transit, the weight must rest oil or near toar points. Another itformsile that lie doubts if a vessel is ever docked without sitfehring in.iuiry therefrom. Not

oue (if thoeo from whom I have received letters regarded a ship-railway as practi-cable.

But whatever may be regarded am pIraetiahl in the transportation of ocean steam-"ships, a failure to transport any of them safely, if attempted, would be calamitous, tnaR-much as it wouhl be inpossiblo to know whether an injury had occurred or not until theweakness had revealed itself; perhaps, when bheond the reach of Succor. Whi1 canaflirm that the transportation of heavy vessels ddapt ed to ocean traffic is not a kolos-sal experiment'? The succsm of the project would not be established by transportinga loaded vessel weighing, with her load, not less than 2,0(0 tons, over ten miles ofrailway. Tile success of the project would, in my opinion, depend upon the raihvay'ls

I

123INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

capability to transport safely any ordinary steamship, with her cargo, built for awl

adapted to commercial purpose over existing elevations of more than 700 feet, and a

topo raphy involving grates of 30 feet per mile over a stretch of eight miles on thePacific slope.

Captain Eads has remarked on several occasions that the traffic would not war-

rant the opening both of a canal and his line of railway. If a comparison is made, it

must be admitted that a vessel of any tonnage runs no risk whatever in passingthrough a canal, and the limit to the size of the vesel is dependent solely on th.

depth of water in the canal and the dimensious given to the locks. Coinpmalted to a

railway we may suppose that her transit may le nade economically, as there inrolling stock to provide or keep in repair. y . " e a he is.hllo

If it be assumed that 5,000,000 tons freight will s,.I transit across ie isthinus

when the mneanis are provided, wVe mlay assumej thlat the dead Xi eight of the jvi-.Selj, to)

carry it may he 3,000,0010 tons. This -%outld give a daily average throutghouit the yvar

of 21,916 ton displacement. Let us assiu that it is averaged per (lay in six N es,,vls,

making a nicau of 3,652 tons, with a, freight capacity oft ive-ighths as assnno'l.

which will give tn average of 2,28'2 tons for tile six vessels. The Nicai-agiia Canal

Company proposes At char,;e in ffll of $.50 per ton of carrying capacity of vessel-;:

thisvouild make the mean transit dues $5,605 on the above averages of displacem.ent

and tonnage. Is Captain Eads prepared to guaranty actual security of vesels in

transit, and to Ipts dill vessels sutch as are usually engaged in oce a traffic, at rates

that are lower than the above ? ant if not, why does Ite ask a guaranty by o1r gV -

ernuient on his bonds f If he does nov, do this 1iT'taf4llv beg lea, e to a k m1ha.l

advantage our commerce would 1?tve from tile constriitimoa his railA ay •

But there is another aspect J tlhe isthmus transit questioii tl14t must not bw for-

gotten ; when the freight 4oranding transit inerrases to teni-tohi, asit wssu.nn'li Avill

do when this continent isirly popitlated, the freight dues n.ow . "ropti for t he Ni-

caragua Canal by the miditions of the eonices5nn ltiiting dividends cannot exct-ed.

say, fifty cents per ton, and may be lesst

Fhe question of tjo transit of' the .ieliviius is isot ~hat siginecrilng cai do to ower-

come difficulties; ". is simply ovem' wha route &re the tgimceritig difficulties least.

and where do theitinvolvo no 0m0utful rtults; ia fvt how (.an .ie great co.mwerc,

of the worhl, so J Atitately elected witli thAt of fle United 9ftites, lwst hav1e de-

velopment with ;-ference to iP"Wt .uWioiAl1c interNt4s and ertending to all 1h.n4iuhl,necessities for tl* future I

ery resl cttf'lly oirs, DA9'L AMM&EN.

&tar ..Iairn, U. . "

LETTER OF.'1AtPTAIN Pi~A )S TNCLfA)SING IEVJI1L OM,&EVtATIi2.

WA41i1XoTo., D. C., JOMa)ry 1.G, IF-I.

Tihe conimittee trd read a eomniniicAifn from Mr. ErI_ s.Air. Cochran, wil) tionittv'd the chumeniation,.wehaceA the readig of it'e itl the

statement, on behalf'41NMr. Ends, that jt had been prepared because of the jtter siu-

mitted by Admird Atuiwn at the last mne;ttig'.'ie conlaittee. It wits as 1bAlows

WAs4iiNi;wrs, D. C., Juawy a2., i-I.

To Hon. J. FLoYv KiNo,Chairnan of Select Cominittee ft4.ferocteanic Canal:

Sin : I am in receipt of a letter from ATh' ltrtu, U. H. N., to the coniuittee,dated on the 21st instant.

The admiral evincet a preat anxiety lhat the conumiittee should inquire most core-

fully into the question ot the practicability of a ship railway, lie seems to have for-

gotten that during several months of the last and several weeks of the presentt session

the committee has devoted itself the consideration of this and other i1l1oitnt cog-

nate matters. During all tli time the doors have been wide open and every opr-

tunity has been offered to the civil and railroad engineers, tho slii p-builderk, and in-

surance companies of the country, the class referred to by Admiral Ainlien, to come

forward and urge any objections they might have to my pian of a ship railway.

Eleven months ago, in replying to Count De Les eps before the committee, I stated

that I held myself ready to answer any objections to my arguments which might Ie,

urged by experts against them at any time. No one has appeared before the eonlut-

tee to question the practicability of the ship railway. Nor has a single engineer or

ship-bujIder, either in this country or abroad, so far as I know, suggested through the

public prints a doubt upon the subject, although for more than a year the newspapers

1241 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CA.NAL.

hav e 110een tuill (if i he, subject -,and uot intil the committee hall actually met to voteupion w3~ bill wvas thle objection of' Admiral Aimen presented. Ct-rtalitly much valueeannit be placed upon the opinion of any one wbo would state, as Admniral Ammenclatint it was stated toe him, that, when a vessel is put upon a dry-dock a niecessaryvpreliminary is to (lischiarge her cargo. Noc ship-builder of reputation in the worldwoutlel, I think, be willing ti c omplroctist hiucsclf by an assertiont so easily disproved.The practice o;. placig loaded vessels ntpoic the dry-doc-k8 for repairs has been by no111alC.111 3n ititeCOun114 uot . About It year agro one of the large steamers of the North,(4-1-111,11 Lloyd line- wtas taken up upioni a dry-dock for repair fi New York. without the

VeCltexa ii ii'any portion of her' cargo. 4)11 the( Victoria docks, in Loudon, several largestls have -een Its clocked. It wuay safely lite concluded that a vese hchwnI

not bevar bviitg placedl upont a, dry-clock n hew loaded is utterly 11nfit, to battle with thleWI- ;I11,1n1 teltupests of the ocean. Ther is a di-4positieou nowadaiys on the part of41t' jcr'ten to speak cf a shbip as titietig excedintgly frail and delicate, whereas,

int tort. fen- USitigs l lw the hanl I& =tm out of wood and iron are s-) cttromg.Almhial An vien is P,10 4 uncic cacquiainted with the facet that the ptracticabiility' of

t- he lt~ ruilwa' is not iiolecrewc bN ite alone, but also Ic;' some of tho ittost uettcltgnliwl anol c'hip-hiiilers in the wold ill. E. J. lVeid, late chief cotlitritfor ofthe laeiticli Navy, zUnd who. as aowitr ii such matters, is second io no living ncan,has 0%i en it atn ucaetied inaorsntt as will appear fromt the following extractstromt a letter rlift t he;lcj to the- London jTimes. Ie sayst

-I %t rite to ex~press the lope that the lQ-4e~e~ of sul'stitcttiitg a ship-railway avietcstie l latmusc of anama her th ; it' v ~l an-al whihT i% in coinpilation, refrred toic Ithe let icr of A= our iri~ vllli orremeinden inl the Ties of this day, will receivelit th ltimeOnnrv an fit iiFlnit ce lie coinsialetat ion which it well deserves. I have ic

a.111teinto past hll Ijilll oretnsnlertatc a similar schemeitj of toy ownt for ccitve'viugship j a 010'. tn' hrit oft the great la'in'.cla of Floridia, and ilthiougit I have mie' li had

lae r'to Ilevclola it Nccliittly to istity ile' lil putt ntg it fit detail hefon- the public.I haxV 911" Hetc Ia letgia tc'.carcl ifsat* eii ng iyself i hat it lit a ft-aible pldan, and11 ghly rceeteettic. I fi cohcexcari-4oi with the~i Owtlccnl. It mtay not hev gnerallv I tnowa ithat this "audit t ha'. Mwci noitel in t nt 'ay of lifting ves&els blfl1 front one. level teoaItee~t lni iced lit ill the rn-e ee'fit' le hiirulie' doh-cs oef Mr. Editcin ('lark and in thteAitertont learge'-fift. fin 4 *lc'hirv. m;Iere ti, Ic'Iridge-water (Caial antd fill, river Weaver;of uiIhh the lllrtuivr W Myrt Wec- ale t the latte!) aie lelaed lit weorkinig eCoutiilnictt-teect Isc t h, tWontg ani~a loie n ec lit,' ltionheeehtles Ai~ t ece'.elc atlecat Withbin t hetin. I stlsatiee thcat fc1i ncoilit\ tug t lie lplans. oft tlhem-' li cranlie eefs'rationmc tad grvattl aug-tfitin~tg their 'wale' anml icy iatereecntg racreth im tett itet Ima -stwe eite *eas ticIe' 'ectIVtelel. "hli' "acle h t 'e ediqm acre'.c the initer~i ceg Itd and notch fes,,

\ et the' t fey cacc1kh iere the' li-.ttic'e to le't rav'rwAeec is great."AA- Altit intlAyn tittiti iii tt. t "li We hoc ll'r'e and 6' % ii etgits-.4 SllillI li etrali

tli-1 oilt cit -o I ti''n t. I 1 .I n 'IvreOMeAi T' I gix e afv feu ttrt. G"r"u Mom.te of' th lcc costa~o Ile a ein', c cnt cece i ec taa . lceft-11Aleecig '. aIt t' ree'tly rec'eivedi trot ('tltEei%. .tie I lartt. 'ccii eel S':tv li'.lclxal cccit'.rctettr. n weitietnan cit such ui li'kneecaut NI" n11 Vo a 111t1 a ht I Ity 01 t I ue.,IVU hcit I hialc It 10tc% til 1 1e' highes-Pt re'.litet.

Mi 1 s.. t. ~iI lit% \#;r, N, J., Jaiss.ry ., t le'.

I t 'ln -ltit: I hl, U tnI..1nc It mob U" Aj inte te1"t tie. etirt- oc am Mkin tg to Wtall-l-iaeIIIt ctctt:ct ecl e 'ct 1 1.' i edt, #c) M" te11c atcnd1c 1On ttdjii, c icc-nit. fiar stc.itlig-v. jal iei itealt'. a tf :1 "itj tf#ae a

Int thc- e'tbr I stcMrey SMet '.' Ulu cit v fthe ta.cee'". Wccith a cih'e4tacitl ilabic't1f11t cecil catIkka tic*ell te'- a'.% glrade". ae c.'l'-ctitecewiicIciae'r~td. liec lieet

0%11 4c1t 4' 1 tVI ive -aPt te lcliii cilt el). wit It -ttfleii'jt nlltler f raik on et tisaote-feel it cc a s.clbrei't t nuntii fc' eelm ecl to, elc'trtjte the we cight it lilht- it-anctta' jcacocel-1,V. X cc. the#- I ranilwich aticit, cc.ccitenatst "ratiiig litr halcl. of' a fctll3'.lecatl I ve'.csefx liet IcI'-1 itif cat' l tceir \%i eeel. tvcill le a-cmurt'e. Th'ie- 11ieedi %% tilt mi htie'hYo call etit tova

ilIe l e','.' will ele1'lic entltrc'v cIItI= the' fcjee uAci tiinutbi'rocf your leoe-ouetives4. Wht'X tlej anttd ltoee'ccr they' c'clcel i w t-c' ,~ lieto%,-' Hth largest Apc caesc'l fi-'Iit t'metne-at a ofc elct telli uitij acetn hcawti'ae c; fair intcaxjiiut grciletV4, is ai matter which e'xiK'-

cc'tt'e'e tailrocil e-ttgiite'' iH ire aide it)t ltehtcctce withI great ac'curaiy..ie On l. tnl'i iy loan fhlcs'c" tlcc tccvaiittec act itare rap~iel transit teat' i he'vt".sc'1s

All'! it - ellct citilc o ee ca- f i icrsa'.-c tic neeet lte future iWHtits cef' Ccuerce'.

1iad x'tttroa at # 4oofrtclorn.

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 125

'The 'llowiiig is a letter addtressei to tile by C'ommaodore' R. W. slititt'ht, 1', S. N.;

Mr. JA-.MES B3. ~i J'ahitglon, 1) C.:1J~xmt Slt: I forward to~ you with great pleairei anl v~tit ofta letter tfitn cot-

iniuder IFartpihar, eotitaltiintg United States shipo Quioit'baug, at prei-i'a at Aleta a -dria, Egypt. C'ommnander Fzir iqt Ihar is lit'- otleer wh lid itIall t liv i~ idruigt ajihi cal wo rk,oil thle Alantic side duing fbie United 84tatesmxirvt'y of tflit- sthijuio ( it' itpe'aind Ins otlcer tiite'i for thie ucuenaev of' liii a ork anid till. Olct li ne of his jndililleanIn thel letter he sax's:

1You are inl A'Washington inl good time to talk upl flit' W'ilitiiiH4 c'anal. I %% i-o tl-tspring a letig letter to thle I-Ion. 'li. King,. ot* Lonisiia, lilt ti' lli- nett iii-a

afaitoiaWe o ie for a sil m i ) wiI %av. I (till uot tIiild flit, It-tter, o 1itit~cie, fill. if %%I i-fit'pttrti -ii that y-ou wevre on v our Waly honie..

liti of t he opinion that Tlhanftee poiti~f i'5t-' lit-si iou 1te fill. I r-iiit. 1 141 toisee whyv a railroad cal table ot tarrying a Ahip coult Ilnot it' ilt . alutu M hy Ihle'lo

Iopes' *of our route sh ould It(it t: thJo'best. The t -act itt a1 I1.ir'i- ta u't41 i lt'long iti tile At it i( side is of tilit- uitmost ioi iIa lt"'. , ion' thlan thti (Iio't flit-I'iwitic shore, ttet'anx it.tht is inost alway-. I "aitther shotre ili I tat ittittv.-Isemnl youa tilt extract as a dixntrtxt il i' ttiiti i all avt I'lipli-Alve'd 1. %i a1 IlituBvot, tlly 'x Is th Ie adlvailfagi's of' thittfe t I-hiti t't'' t ;IN ti lit 1.t lat t1' aut i it\

ofa bhip it1 ly a cros *t ie' i-st f Iiit o.

to thi' tili toro tf ''lit- ' Exprte -andi I iiijti "fil Itto' fbt h ,bjil a i lit : ngt'i'1u'oblui'As ilivvi dti hav e all boen dx eld on a1 -itia I lt' 've It; ini.' lt- n'ti ot,

atrioum works inlla x tiuni'y ani inl h iiiit, ditig tv lit th~ 1lirty caut, : ontit hii,

hand14 is 111i1 by atliy aieiilivtilt. It , l 1 ill Iet a 'i-ritii F1'1l4'1 to 'll 1,a tilt.enterprse ud' o't'caii it a I i-a K, t I' wi-it cI itt A li'ljt'ti 1t (1l" it 111's.. alit It hie p0.t I'll it i-ia

vost oft which tmast eventiialh it Itaiil b% hilt' cfite i''i ll Ih lha pe oif t-i1, IltI; ittil

tit-iiciauiic i'ikt i g tradee,

;ire-itilin oft ke Itoarilof' little %%a k itt-k. iii t Looit" tit i'W. ,40, i'-1.j,potl-l

tit ths lii' Epotr antd ltitlorti'l

Drm~t tic: fix ri-l% ft ittlr resi atxt t hat I gi%4 %iv%%-i l u in re-aiI totf iv-4itili raoil-ittiti 1 rti~xedh tit 'uf .amii" Kt Ead' I lii'g to xAtnte Ilix oltimiii

lot' that iit, I' Olili 4.'ttnil.

.Mt. That a -hlp railrioad cn lie cintll'4 10'l ill 111-t1d1,0i1y '1tt' 0htiil it' hIl livi'f v

3d. TIhat tilma cani i' frmixti'rri'il onl suchi a Ialh'itat A% ithi allIltiueif. 'x au e It lie sila' ilisatth ah t broigh st ahl p -anal,

;,tit. 'tat itithittigh Ithe cit t it trintei'riiig iiifii It ship nfi-Ilid xx ili i'\vv,'t t, lI4 ti ilig tlint t hrtigh a hhip catial, fte illi-r'e- 'it ill. lbeis~itltatttiiputwxithi tit- saving tfit'iitere'tt otit thtilr-t coat,

(ith. 'That tlse 8hip rail'oad utill. Ihci'i'fttre. ttft'i a 111141al'ai' ii it 11ilic'it fillcapti tal.

Ia ill adld thaut I have takenl Willt' plina, fit iitiiri'i tzt~s-If' inl rt'g'irl fto tilt' mir i. %.aid etitimatea for Adll) vi'aaf %, hh'h Iia~e hereifitri lti' 1tiale. 1'.114 that I ijatx *'kolt

muade careful yet liberal utimatt*il tlt- t' o itit 4*'tiitttli't ii'i toll ilttal'' anlt iit'iea-tion of' a ship railrmi, antd would give '.vit all ahatract of flit' fun-ta anld til,:1uAt Il

xx hi01 I baa4' thle tipiiilt given olt. hlilt I liti flint a full iiR-'i holiml ('1 t'riig all Iv'

xal ithi' jiuirtiui.Very ret'sp 'etfiihiy, i l~l"A'V-

Erie R-ailwvay. aavp. in a letter slii' - I Ittu timitt- lihaaw'i to fiith ill t lialg 111wii.Tr'ilitini. y-our ve-try ititli' and t'lt'r 1pretit-ttatatti of'si m-i'eit' for a itasria.', rail% ax aw III'

atilt'-101114 t~lt iin $ the'oreta tia .11 gav-e *mm'atttieti lo tilt- stmultjtct iilmlf at'at'l% a1 -, at

126 INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL.

ago and. reached conclusions alaiost identical with yourR a:4 to the feasibility and gen-eral features of the project. " * " see no resonp why the railway should not beWorked at ten mlie per hour, and (swuming it to be sixty miles long) why' S teamercannot be transferred fromn ocean to ocean in twelve hours."

I ight wdd a number of other lettoravf a character similar to those above given butwill content myself with submitting bit one morm,

The followingf I receive-d froin General Q. A. Giliniore, of the itiitedg tates Engineerswho iq one of the mnost accomplished officers of the, corpsi

JlskFgos Yom C.:y ,181

Dr.%n SzR: I have to aektiowl-elge the roei 1t of vour noto of the 17th inataut re-liitig it) your project of a ship raiilwayt w--s te sthmus of Tehnlttelk-r

Yon vt ere good enough, omie rnutab-e ago, to explzin to rue in wwrao detail the .ess'n-v al feat nes of yisur iltn and I have, given the matter coitaiderable thought sinithen. Having the entirstge of my convictions, I have no hesitation in puttiug inwvimingll the -views 11pon this subjectt which I have oc-casionally ex rossd in couvens&-tiejii. fitni to njdgitint, the eontructi.n of ship railway ae'mosi the Mexican ist~ti .qist general ;,teeeirilanc.' with yottr plan, ist wit only fesile as an enfinteering pimle~ii,Itint thi. sucessAful umititeisitee and opemnation of such a road is eut irtly practicable aax bt :izietis eterprise. Thifs awitmem that your engineer will find a route with suitit-tilke alignxuieat and grade-S, a ymlexst of pnmrnt anid easy solution. upon which vx~iut

"Otr iii flriuat ion is nuich greater and hotter thun none~.In jointg hirwArd tti'. graud p jvrqtet. I winh yxoi that fill n arr of cmplete sue-

'.% b% hit\wr % iW, ettergy. anti prestige as anu eugitiecr xrc so well calcauiateut to

Vtr, res~..cttiilly. %totr fd -w'itsrvant,.A, fiII.MORE,

I 4t'I:h gfi) 411 an einte front fifteeni oir tweiatt other distitiguishid civil eigiasrs4 44, "atim ,ftert, lit tho *m- % i l4 1 trut, he *uffvietit to retve frxmu the inind of

.Vitiotl Auottaeu all tlusetion 14% tit the prartivaulbty of the ship railway. should he-% ,&h tuirtlir wwurt'ives. I %wild reol"ectfully refer himt to) General G. 't. Beauregard,Nit. nrh'uina4 c. clark. Mr. E. L. Corthell, Mr' J. J1. Williams, sod Ma~j. B. M. Harrod,AtI 4 %% how arr euxineerw teminent iki their iortofriniaon sa famiiliar with railway cn--1 11i101. 1 % til refer him likewise toi Mr. Henir.- 141rer the eebrapc ship-haikder,41t' Ne- 1-rk, antI also to Mr. Sils Aelkinit, %bo 0 iot tily an eixpcrioacd ALIp-1,utduthr, bott si agenti of the tuderwritrsi, a elsws whomu idtiral Aimea iilkstitight tos ho hoiird frnt.t I 1whs-e I aim jusititl iiv using the aujecti'e 01thaskirlic in~'k-% reowilig thfe favor au th which a *hip railway io reesviveid by all of thewe thmvuehly11experit-tied e'zlwris. Iitamtiuch. however, as. havei trot the bioaisug inoAlasx thatno't Vharge ..r oligation exhoi lw polsoed upona thr government nati I heel trat demoa--tiated thve .tiro praetivability tit the railway. adt pbroeia by The moat indubitabt#et esi %I to apilit v to a tp~ the ends for w*hirh it is 4svigtaod, furhi iuinofbis. subjied-t w;uld be Idle.

I dot, it think I aw rrxquirft to rvatieo at any le'ath the queaaisa of the ebraptiom4'r tolls u1pon the railway a. c.1isr*e *wIth theme of the C'anal. Mfy sp"i~o iihat th4- t ioverumeeir of tlw Ui tktat shall have lwwe'r tox fteguIM the toll to beliargw'e upown Owe railway, to luvereaor in redite theow at p~meaee.Ths, Nicaragunan eimapa~y pro~powi to give so ambc pwivllrrs, bat, on the omtrz.

Is eiuithsd to Imptvic rate.i high enough to t-"bkv' it to realim ares &"Isa divittimmlt'st its nuiekhoeritr I prip to srmaqxtie all govenissert vessel, oa1 m~ the "aIs.,util transmit t~riai te~rgrane withut charge', std to give to the CatW 8tate theright in th* tattitter of to h to diernsuaTe in fattr oif Ameaot eree. Where,In IhS 1Vpmtu PI)OU1Of the- Nuesraga COMpNADY, ilk th.#e *ee a WhiaSper Of an 014041iQU1'like a4d antaa ?I noed tuol pats. to a*et'l. the iuggeeLteea wtad by the Admial Oha the railway,

whe'n erenapirtmd. sheeedet ke CaPole of tra ewtkl any NMI aill oftes V.eha, withtheir rarrgnot, whatever may be their touniager. We witl have a. diemte upapa this11rae, 'Jtliu. Any ve'eml that es pamiI through the aual ran 1* tramepe -%ed spots thetriity. The Admitral aim p1! failed1 1i' uu~irab that the traaupt't~eme of therau-thosam-to rfwl uwetiouu"e in the bill wso wwrely intendled ko tesit the rvAl-

"st~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~b ofthn 6nie tu a'l t mspeeedta a company would expend4'ox~)uipea a work whieh would kw isaal of E ixuag Uwanpelrttlos to Yewn

I"l of'an the ler kmxiaukeata ti. is. the' men the~ following lasgaage "Thei~ix s. *s * iw as the £7.51 eummere of tb* wWrM go intumasey ewo-

-ieete'ei with that of thee tiVue'e 15ta~tai, 1%wt hav* dirvekopowat ? A c. In 0therr

INTEROCEANIC SHIP CANAL. 127

words, the project which he so persisteutly advocates has as its design merely the earn-ing of money for its stockholders. The removal of the isthusiian barrier is to benefitthe wkole workd generally, and does not hold out the promise of any special benefits tothe commerce of the United States. If this design is to be carried out, the Nicaraguanronte is a good one for the purpose; but if the interests of American commerce amefirst to be regarded, if the enterprise is to be essentially Americau in its character, noother route is comparable to Tehuantepee. To prove this, it is only necessary to statethat . vessel leaving the Mississippi River for San Francisco, and goiug by the Tehuan-teptw.,route, would be required to steam or sail twelve hundred and fifty wiles less indistance than if she went by the Nicaraguan route. Aves"sel leavinjg New York wouldaave seven hundred miles in going to San Francisco by Teluanitepec instead of byNicaragua. An equal distance would be saved were the vosel bound for China orJapau. Ko, toe, by the Tehitantemeo route the ve~sels of the United states boundfor California or the Orient would have a great advantage iu distance over those ofEngland and ? (ue. while the right in the United Stats- Government to regulate thetolls and discriminate in favor of American commerce would render succvesftal Europeancompetition impoasibe. I regret that Admiral Amnen, evincing, as he has, such ex -trirditlary anxiety to guard the committee against mistakes, bhoul have entirelyomnittrd direting its attention to these very important considerations.

I would .tay in coneluiion that I quite agree with Admiral Ammen in hi4 as.&rt ionthat in the cotnstruction of a highway aitros the Isthmus not only the require-umentsof prooeut but those of future commerce should be regarded. lierein I aind one of thestrongest arguments in favor of a ship railway rather than a canal. The tendency ofthe times is to increaw the .zis offthe vessels, and no one can'tell to what extent thiswill be rarriedl in the fitur.- Tile etsseKl of to-day may le inignifleant in size cont-pmnred with thsoe of tweitv-f-ive years hence. Thereifore, a cvmnal contrueted withreference to the vtese18 of o-da% might prove entirely inadequate to accommodatethoxe of the future. To inetease its ca laity would virtually require the constructionot a new canal as it wold i volv'e the increase of its depth and width, 1the substitu-tioi of new maid ne-ih large lhwk, and a general increase, in the magnitude of thewhole work. In tho case of'tae railway, however, ill that would be i, cessary wouldlie ti increaa, the size of tite. c r and cradle uponi which time vessel is to e transported;ii other wor l, the work its"f would require no change, the rolling stock only wouldhe athectt'd.

I am, very respetftilly. yours,

r "he following palwr% wt re received hind ordered to e made part of the record:WVAKIIENGTO)N, 1). CL., January I "2, IJ ..

For the purlxmw of giving thooe interested in the Interoveanic Ship Canal a sueinctidea of what seems likely t promote, and what seems likely to prevent its construe-lion at least Iy an Ameriean ronpasny, I make the following statement:

For bome extraordiuary reaKon the lIsthmus of Tehuantepec is again presented ax apouuibk. line of canal moustruction, and a survey of it is again proposed. Yet we knowthat it hs a summit-level of 754 feet, and will require 140 hocks, or een times tile 1n1m.er of the Niearau ua Canal; it hp a line of awtnal'excavation of 14t miles. or more

%,'An double required on the Nicaraguan line, and it has it propos-od dredging tf ariver subject to floods for a distaree of .15 miles.

It has alo to draw its water by a feeder i27k mies long, requiring a dam i; feethigh to et the nooemmv;y elevation, having four tunnels aggregating :.6 miles, andthen a (,ltflient water tupply.

By report of Engineer. uert, pea, page 26, of Tehnanteploe survey, under ('aptainShufeldt. the river Corti at point A, map No. 2, is given at 1,615 culic feet per secol ;rjawwfly the quantity required for the alinientation of the catal as given, page 11. Allif the available stratm were found to yield 2,113 cubic feet xer secout , or 495 feetmort than reelnirdl. lie estimates, thte lo" in the it eler through filtristiOn, evalmora-tion. &e., at 5W cubi fset per second, thus making the delivery amount to l,,il; feestper second, making a dlefliency of i5 ubilc feet IK.r second.

On page 31 h cites two example of fee i'.s; that of St. Prief.6,OO feet long,loses thr e fimrths of it* water. If loss at thte , nme rate should ocecr, no waterweeld reach t q h the setath roils. In the examph- of the fee4der of Itolet, whichia 56.WN feet long. if lows at the aie rate should owctr. the water wonld not reachthrough the fourteenth ille. In the firut eam the water would reach one-fientth thel-ngtbhof the projssad feeder. and in the imseemel cas it %ould reach one-half of itslength..e Ptatet. however, that the nature of lh.- soil alod the ('orti or prolwoed fi,.der

frsn it to well calculated to pre-vent tiltratim, hut in giving the diftferrt sections

128 INTEROCEANIC 8HIP CANAL.

along the feeder he ena'tions that sone portions of the cutting and tnuneling are inIshale and drift." ,r I Ihunius. and loos earth." In the fifth division there is a tunnel2 miler long, which he says "cai 1wb easily excaveted. the grfend being very soft. Onoinw portions of the tieder, he slates the ormation to be "ciny sandstone," marblee,'

Alnd ' compact linestone,"There are inmerons proposed dams for tie interception of small streamns crossing tle

line; an aqnednet 1.2(0 fiet long; throughout several miles of its course the feeder israised above the natural surface, a condition favoring a large lm through tiltration.

The cost of locks at the sine estimate of the Nicaragua. route would Ist e50,00l0Q;ft actual e\c'at itil, 645,(l,000 : of feeder on Panama route, none being required viaNicaragua. $25.fStit 0t55; then the exeav nation of the Coatzacoialcs River for :Z mileswould snii tp loroalhly $5.1tt,000, the estimated cost on the Upper p tan Jun, andE:.Otiu,Uis) imore, as in Niilarytl. for harbors priesVnting the sallle ditht-ulties, likingit total

tf"13.t551,1145i.

The t.commiSsio)n .uiitltd 1y th' 1President. of which I was a meiiber. instead ofAiliptill time t,,tillate o t5 pe r cent. i fie emill'eer ito cover contingencies mti the,Nicaragimt roite, 1hoimaht it ntece.sar to dollble the estimate, and that, too, where.building lninterialk of al kinds were abnndant amid ,onvevient. Therm is st'll greaterrvatiti it doiilt' tte e.titmate of the Teliiantepere oiit, making it $2cft0tallss, andthat, too. lq is lu will, Tithelat r at wasr-xpply adequate at least duirhig the dry m-aon.Amther ,A y , c'nuot materially change the .iiniilit-hvel already deterttiuvid : it

nuiliot clianligttl he i t of the canal ; it cannllltot add to t 1w watersmupply without anincreased_ iu the estimate: it cammiot by any menu change the relative dlisiidvantageswhich umhalppil v exi't in its cimliiri;mi with Nicaragum. What. tlien, is the luri.mi,wv.hat the obljecit. of a sltrvey .! Certainly there is not the fninte t ltiltie of those A% honre iiforied t lu the conditions will be ilonl imtteriall dittircnut from tle abovvstateiiiit., Wiviatc,\ %l" the assertion mnay be.

Tlhe Niiarzgii r.ott, has in caiiaizatioi, f1 t mile ; the renmiuder is either lake ir|lac'kwittr ilaviliatiol ill at rivel not sutbjetl to floods: the N itler-mipldv is iu.etit\tiles more hall volld be lsed ti lokage the mitifil-level iof tie caltl. t7 I'eei,-. 1141 t l' ti Ii% itle betiv ell the oean

4, 151 te t. The ' cst tf lie 'atial. its estimated h

3

t he ci% ii ellgilleer', wit hOut an tdloWoct. for contingencies, a li'.,,l(ttt, and the cot1itunleld h t Iw' tominitsol I tIOtftiI 551.

''l Itimanla friite v as caretlliy located at tlit- request of tihy r'diuniissioh tid ;nline lo'ated at u 11 .,l,. ation lot 123 l0et a.ove the oceami, which will proba ily re1 lit,tili ilic't .i ot t4ml.u or ti v" "et , Ill" '.hiu a6%y tle lhoilu of' lamt N uet'lillb'', Thle cost ofthe last.- it nd route, on a co 1 m oIn balis foi- lahr aund mauterials A% it l Nicaragium, 14,torte thall V11 per cent. gucatet. antd will ii tact cist ieil than dtuilile to exte th,.\ .rk.

It b oulhloiht1."o' lie interest ingto tle tillit and ndvantageolus tohav' the? n i llast.nailed otlutes pass' il 'er by sile engitivers with t1ie itiutt unuental sm-ve m in hall,to approximate th, rtlhl iye couit of executtion. To include tile Tehuanlteltc roulteA%11h4 lie to inelmh %ulint is simply intlosilile of ext'ctiin by reasntt ot the pljsicluconditions ab\ioe Iuanino. The o dect could not lie to hope to make a enal there, liltsimply to ore-vent its exec'titiou vli.wlii're.

At this tlmit hthireat' in Nicaraguat tWOL10 E1170Oleull huartieS VIni are' askiiig V-I'ice.04ifIl.In March ilas one wa agreed uiponl to M. Blantc't, aiud only lacked one %. te ili1lesellato to volitlrm it.The' 1 robleum, then. is. hall we plaee Io obstacle in the way of ait Ameri( 51 e0u-

paivy. and thus prohali-v enable it to secure a grantt, with the idea oif only permitting1 ills tiat wolt lie lihiirallv reti turative, or shall we place t1 ,'.-e obstacl- in thewa-, ad e,-tainly throw tlhe eoncession into the hllids t Euro., ils, adlli allom themti 1nupo their proposed tolls upon its f

They'! ). y 'vcrv well say that we an not vomWpeh' to 1pimw hirinvigh the vannl . it issimply opt lotial whether'we go that wiay or ela Canpe lorn. We t aliot very welllirthtpse to dieticte w hat them. toll shall be at l.st miiles, m e do so in d,' antue othe gratitg -if a vone.mion by3' Nicaragua, utntd evett then it Aouihl stet smmtwhat1reteuti.urs. in view\ of ottr intability to support stwh a demand either in reason or hmaterial fore",:.

I may add that tile 4'mmtimssiOii uppoiti'ld by the Prmsident in IN7, i hivih *eut in itsreport in l47,, had Ill if the iftiornuation thought iieeeAry tmpecting al1 the regioninvolved. II "hort, tlie wily lvo rtite¢s worh looking at are Panamaatld Nicangua,amid thy 1.i.13 t Itmi liili t 'ia rv pip' aixroitltlti' t.,,t of exe"ltioll.

D)AN'. AMMEN,lJwu-.rtmiral, V. S. N.

INTEROCEANIC HIP CAAL. 129

[Executive Documents, first oession Thirty.first Congrefa vol. 10, 1849- ',j

Document 715, page 10. * * "The policy adopted by this government in negotia-ting with the Central American States and with all foreign nations in regard to thoseStaten, owes its origin to the resolution of the Senate of the United States, unanimouslyadopted on the 3d of March, 1835, in the following words:"Resolred, That the President of the United States be respectfully requested to con-sider the expediency of opening negotiations with the Governments of Central Americaand New Grenada, for the purpose of effectively protecting, by suitable treaty stipu-lations with them, such individuaIs or companies as may undertake to open a comamu-nicaf on between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans by the construction of a ihip-canalacross the isthmus which connects North and 8outh; America, and of securing foreverby such stipulations the free and equal right of navigating such canal to all such no-tions on the payment of sueh reatonable tolls as may be established to conpensatethe capitalists w-ho nay- engage in su'ch undertaking, ani complete the work.'

iPresident Jackson jppnroved and adopted the principles of this reKolution, and inpirsuance of it sent Charles Biddle as agent to negotiate with the governun-uts ofCentral America and New Grenada. The reimt is fully set firth in the report of aselect committee of the House of Representatives of the 20th February. 149, upon ajoint resolution of Congmrss to authorize the survey of certain nnitt-s for a canal orrailroad tietween the Atlantic and 1'a.itlc Oceans. The policy adopted by the Presi-dent and Smlate, as indicted in the resolution of March 3, V 3, was fully confirmedby President Polk in his Executive message to the senate, of Felruary 10, 1547 (inwhich he citts and relies on that rlution), and by th6 senatete, which, in conslequetteof the reromuinwmdation contained in that misage, conlirned the treaty with NewGrenada in regnt to a canal or railroad acrossthe Isthmus of Panama. Tlmt- objectsof the late President, like th-se of his predecessors to whom I have referred, wore toopen ,omnutuications acroom the isthmus to all nations, and to invite their guaranteeson the same sterns: to propose no guaranty of territory to a foreign nation in whichthe I nited sttes would not haae a conminon interest with that nation ; and to consti-tute alliances, not fir political obj-ects, but for purely commercial 1urlms, equallyinteresting to all the navigating nations of the world.'

I We are more deeply itittrested in the construction oti t ahip cainl through the isth-lun which divides North and Sotth America than nov other nation. Without it wemay not be able to maintaiii our l.ttooeioun ou the Pacifie. We shall profit more bythe treaures of that (wean. in the event of the construction of interoceanic comnmn-nications through that ixthmiu4, than any other lophe ; and in view of this, the latePresident determined to extend the protection of this government to every such com-munication, whether by canal or railroad; inviting, alm, that of all other nationsdesiring to enjoy the rights of pelage. A without which a heavy expense might be en-tailed t tit" 1 irted State iln maintaining a sutt-itnt naval and military force forthat purJMe."

* John M. Clayton. Delpartmeut of State, Jitl, 15, 1851. Instructions of Mr.('layton, Secretary of.State, to tir, Squier, minister to Micaragua, May 1, 1it49. Docu-ment 75, p. 119:

"It has been repre ented to thio partnent tbat certain citizens of the UnitedStaten are desirous of entering into a contract with the government of Nicaragua forthe purlsss of constructing a canal between the Atlanlic and Pacific by way of theriver San Juan and I.ke Nicaragua, terminating at Realejo, on the Pacific."

* I " If, therefore, by your wrsonal good voices with the Government of Nicara-gua, you cau aid in securing for the permons above referred to the contract for theconstruction of a canal, you are at lhibrtv to take that course."

* 0 1It is; in.t diriable thatt the Ifarties to the contract shall het deprived of theopportunity of mit'vg it a ioe oulijtct of speculation, and thus retardling or prevent-ing the t'ouatrmictif .. of a cantal."

Docunwnt 7.5, p. Is, .fqiier'i gives draft of concession asked, to p. 173.Clayton-ilwer treaty, page 320 to 32.;,

9 INT

INDEX.

Ammen, U. S N., statement of Rear Admiral ................................. 3 123Burnett, Ward B., statement of ............................................. 15Ohanning, Dr. Win. F., views of ............................................. 77Collins, U. S. N., Lt, Frederick, statement of ..................... 38De LesseMp statement of Count .............................................. 50Ead., James B., views of ... o..................................... 55,119,123Goodwin, John M., statement of ....................... *.................... 70Kelley, Frederick M., statement of ........................................... 87Long, Dr. Owen M., statement of ............................................ 89Lull, U. S. N., Commander E. P ........................................... 41Menocal, A. G., statement of ................................................ 29Morris, Frauci, statement of ................................................ 22Phelps, 8. L., statement of ....... I ........................ 104Pickett, views of ............................................................ 81Pile, Win. A., statement of .................................................. 20Shelbourne, Sidney F., statement of ......................................... 82,Smith, J. Lawrence, statement of ............................................ 93Thompson, R. W., late Secretary of Navy, argument of ................... 109

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