VOL. 10, NO. 4

Features Cover Photo by Rick Malkin

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Known for his work in the Tonight Show band and in his ownEnergy Force big band, Ed Shaughnessy discusses his life andcareer, and tells why he originally didn't want to take theTonight Show gig.by Robyn Flans 16

DONNY BALDWINDonny Baldwin talks about how he came to replace AynsleyDunbar as the drummer for the Starship and what makes thegroup's current album so different from all the others.by Robin Tolleson 22

JEROME COOPERThis veteran jazz drummer has performed with Cecil Taylorand The Revolutionary Ensemble, but today prefers toconcentrate his efforts on solo playing in order to develop astyle of drumming that is uniquely North American,by Ed Hazell 26

RAY MCKINLEYAt the age of 75, this legendary big band drummer is stillactively performing. Here he reveals how he invented theconcept of double bass drumming, and reminisces about hisexperiences with the Dorsey brothers and with Glenn Miller inthe Army Air Force Band during World War II.by Burt Korall 30

TED McKENNAHe's paid his dues with such artists as Alex Harvey, RoryGallagher, Greg Lake, Gary Moore, and Michael Shenker, butnow Ted McKenna wants to play rock the way he thinks itshould be played.by Simon Goodwin 34

ColumnsEDUCATION

ROCK PERSPECTIVESStyle & Analysis: Alan Whiteby Michael Bettine

ROCK 'N' JAZZ CLINICWhat To Listen Forby Peter Magadini

IN THE STUDIONashville Perspectiveby John Stacey

DRUM SOLOISTPhilly Joe Jones: "Monopoly"by Glenn Davis

CONCEPTSDrumming And Frustrationby Roy Burns

SOUTH OF THE BORDERThe Songoby Bobby Sanabria

CLUB SCENEEmbracing Technologyby Rick Van Horn

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EQUIPMENTSETUP UPDATE

David Garibaldi and Butch Miles

SHOP TALKNoiseless Lugsby Thom Jenkins andMarna Jay Morris

PRODUCT CLOSE-UPRIMS Headsetby Bob Saydlowski, Jr

JUST DRUMS

PROFILES

NEWS

PORTRAITSCliff Leemanby Warren Vache, Sr

ON THE MOVEBilly Amendolaby Chris Braffett

UPDATEINDUSTRY HAPPENINGS

DEPARTMENTSEDITOR'S OVERVIEWREADER'S PLATFORMASK A PROIT'S QUESTIONABLEDRUM MARKETSLIGHTLY OFFBEAT

MD Trivia: Answers and Results

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EquipmentWise

If you're a regular reader of Modern Drummer, you've probably noticedthe messages that have been appearing in the past several issues regardingthe new Modern Drummer Equipment Annual. Scheduled for release inmid-June, MD's Equipment Annual promises to be, without a doubt, themost comprehensive percussion-equipment reference volume ever pub-lished. Here's a little bit of what you can look forward to.

First, as any good equipment guide should offer, will be extensive listingsof the products of practically all the major percussion manufacturers. Thiscomprehensive presentation will be offered through product specificationsand current pricing on drums, cymbals, cases, accessory items, marchingand keyboard percussion, Latin instruments, drum machines, and elec-tronic drums. We'll also be including the current addresses and phonenumbers of each of the manufacturers listed. To make this an even morevaluable reference guide for serious drummers and percussionists, theEquipment Guide will also offer a rather extensive listing of many of themajor music stores and drum shops in the nation.

You can also look forward to a lot more than just product and supplierinformation. For instance, in the feature article department, you'll find anin-depth look at the state of the percussion industry, based on the findingsof our roving reporter at MD's yearly visit to the National Association ofMusic Merchants (NAMM) Convention in Anaheim, California. Also,we'll talk with Pat Foley, who has produced the custom artwork found onthe drumsets of such artists as Myron Grombacher, Jonathan Moffett, andA. J. Pero. Pat will discuss his own creations, and offer tips to those whowant to make their kits look as special as they sound.

As an added attraction, the MD Equipment Annual will have a hard-spine binding, perfect for easy storage and quick reference all year long,and a Reader's Service card enabling you to simply circle a number, mailthe card, and receive further information from a manufacturer on a spe-cific product. And as you may or may not be aware, the Equipment Annualwill be distributed free of charge to all MD subscribers on file as of April 1,1986. Of course, the publication will also be available at most major musicstores, drum shops, and bookstore outlets.

To our knowledge, Modern Drummer's Equipment Annual will be thefirst publication of its kind to deal exclusively with the wide world of drumand percussion instruments. This is one reference volume that can bereferred to time and time again throughout the year, and that should be onevery serious drummer's bookshelf. Look for it in your mailbox or at yourfavorite drum shop within the next few months.

PUBLISHERRonald Spagnardi

ASSOCIATE PUBLISHERIsabel Spagnardi

EDITORRonald Spagnardi

FEATURES EDITORRick Mattingly

MANAGING EDITORRick Van Horn

ASSOCIATE EDITORSSusan HannumWilliam F. Miller

EDITORIAL ASSISTANTElaine Cannizzaro

ART DIRECTORDavid H. Creamer

ADVERTISING DIRECTORKevin W. Kearns

ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTORIsabel Spagnardi

ADMINISTRATIVE MANAGEREllen Corsi

ASSISTANTADMINISTRATIVE MANAGER

Tracy Kearney

DEALER SERVICE MANAGERAngela Hogan

CIRCULATIONLeo SpagnardiCrystal Van Horn

SALES PROMOTION MANAGEREvelyn Urry

MODERN DRUMMER ADVISORY BOARDHenry Adler, Carmine Appice, Louie Bellson,Bill Bruford, Roy Burns, Jim Chapin, LesDeMerle, Len DiMuzio, Charlie Donnelly, PeterErskine, Danny Gottlieb, Sonny Igoe, JimKeltner, Mel Lewis, Larrie Londin, PeterMagadini, George Marsh, Butch Miles, JoeMorello, Andy Newmark, Neil Peart, CharliePerry, Paul T. Riddle, Ed Shaughnessy, SteveSmith, Ed Thigpen.

CONTRIBUTING WRITERSSusan Alexander, Scott K. Fish, Robyn Flans,Simon Goodwin, Jeff Potter, Teri Saccone,Robert Santelli, Bob Saydlowski, Jr., RobinTolleson, T. Bruce Wittet.

MODERN DRUMMER Magazine (ISSN 0194-4533) is published monthly by MODERNDRUMMER Publications, Inc., 870 PomptonAvenue, Cedar Grove, NJ 07009. Second-ClassPostage paid at Cedar Grove, NJ 07009 and atadditional mailing offices. Copyright 1986 byModern Drummer Publications, Inc. All rightsreserved. Reproduction without the permission ofthe publisher is prohibited.SUBSCRIPTIONS: $22.95 per year; $41.95, twoyears. Single copies $2.50.MANUSCRIPTS: Modern Drummer welcomesmanuscripts, however, cannot assume responsi-bility for them. Manuscripts must be accompa-nied by a self-addressed, stamped envelope.CHANGE OF ADDRESS: Allow at least sixweeks for a change. Please provide both old andnew address.MUSIC DEALERS: Modern Drummer is avail-able for resale at bulk rates. Direct correspon-dence to Modern Drummer, Dealer Service, 870Pompton Ave., Cedar Grove, NJ 07009. Tel: 800-221-1988 or 201-239-4140.POSTMASTER: Send address changes to Mod-ern Drummer, P.O. Box 469, Cedar Grove, NJ07009.

BUDDY RICHI'm still enjoying your 10th AnniversaryIssue; I think it's great, as usual. But it'sbecause of the Buddy Rich interview thatI'm writing. Buddy has been one of mymain influences ever since I can remember.But I was a little surprised at his whole atti-tude towards big drumkits. He seems to beunder the impression that any percussion-ists playing more than eight or nine pieceshave to play that many to make themselvessound good. I personally have a 30-piecekit, and not one piece goes unused. Everypiece is a form of expression for me, fromthe wind chimes, concert chimes, templeblocks, etc., to the drums. They all saysomething different. Buddy mentionedseeing Carl Palmer and his massive kit,and laughed. But he failed to mentionCarl's fantastic drumming ability. NeilPeart also has a huge kit, but so what?Give him one stick and a cymbal, and hecan do more than most of us can with twosticks. Always look past the size of the kitand examine the ability of the drummerbehind it. Many of us who have bigdrumkits have them because we want to,not because we have to. There's a big dif-ference.

Sue EusticeNewington, CT

I received with much gladness and antici-pation your 10th Anniversary Issue. Goodjob! I was really anxious about reading themagazine, since three of my favorite drum-mers— Neil Peart, Buddy Rich, and LouieBellson—were scheduled to be included.But after I read the articles, I becamequite . . . well, I don't know if it wasanger I felt, or just concern.

I read through Mr. Peart's interview,which mainly concerned changes withinthe industry—notably electronics. It wasinteresting because he is very much con-cerned with progress.

Then I read Mr. Rich's interview. Irespect this man immensely. Everyoneknows that Mr. Rich has the most incredi-ble chops in the world. He is the self-pro-claimed "World's Greatest Drummer,"and justly so. However, some of his state-ments I viewed as abominations. The elec-tronic drum is not the worst thing ever tohappen to the drum industry. Good lord, ifyou use them correctly and put your heartinto what you play, electronics can helpyou tremendously. Why not use them toyour advantage?

The point here is adaptability. Electron-ics will never replace the acoustic drums,which have a spirit and a feel that couldnever be corralled on a chip. But I willincorporate electronic drums with myacoustic kit, because the combinationgives me something interesting andthought-provoking to work with.

Mr. Rich stated that, if you can't playwith a five-piece kit, you can't play. I agreethat, if you can't play a basic kit, you cer-tainly can't play a large kit. Buddy plays asmall kit, and he plays very well. Why?Because he feels comfortable behind it. Ifeel more comfortable behind a large kit. Ican be equally inventive behind a small kit,but I find it much more interesting to play alarge one. And I don't have one piece ofequipment that I don't use.

The bottom line is: The Buddy Richmethod doesn't work for everybody. TheNeil Peart method doesn't work for every-body. Nothing works for everybody. Dowhat you feel comfortable doing, butdon't criticize those who are taking achance and being creative with otherequipment. Get your sound, and get yourstyle, and you'll do fine. Drummers haveto adapt; that's what it's about.

Mike GolayTulsa, OK

Buddy Rich obviously hasn't heard thelikes of Vinnie Colaiuta, Rod Morgen-stein, Tommy Campbell, Chad Wacker-man, Omar Hakim, and countless otherfantastic drummers on today's musicscene. If he has heard these wonderfulmusicians, I don't understand how hecould make the remark that nothing couldinspire him to get into music today. It's ashame that he lets a few MTV videos blurhis vision of what today's music has tooffer. I love music and drums more thananything, and if one looks past MTV andall the gimmicks, one will find plenty ofquality music being played by qualitymusicians with plenty of love, and in turn,giving us young players plenty of inspira-tion!

Greg EllisHollywood, CA

LOUIE BELLSONI just finished reading the Louie Bellsoninterview in your January, 1986 issue, andfelt I had to send some praise to my great-est inspiration. Louie's music and wordshave been a big influence on me throughhis concerts and clinics, his records, andeven a question of mine he answered inyour Ask A Pro department some timeback. Now, once again, his inspirationalwords have done it for me. As a percussionstudent at Northeast Missouri State Uni-versity, I have had doubts as to whether Iwas good enough to continue. Louie'swords about not giving up and using com-petition as an incentive to do better are justthe motivation I need to continue. Thanksto Louie and to MD for the fine article.

Paul ChristophersonKirksville, MO

STUDIO DRUM SOUNDSThanks for the "Studio Drum Sounds"article/record supplement in the January,'86 issue. As an artist who self-producesdemos and soundtracks for various media,both in my home studio and in studiosaround the Bay Area, it was very interest-ing to read about and hear different waysof arriving at a good drum sound. Thistype of creative reporting is typical of theuseful and interesting information wealways find in the pages of MD. Right on!

I might add that I felt that none of thedrum sounds produced on the record sup-plement were of the typical awesome qual-ity of drum sounds heard on modernrecordings of top artists. This, in my opin-ion, points out two things. First (as RickMattingly stated in the article), the ulti-mate drum sound must be achievedtogether with all the other instruments fora particular song; second, most drums—even using the highest-quality equip-ment—sound kind of weird on tape, espe-cially when recorded by themselves!

Doug ProsePalo Alto, CA

MD'S 10TH ANNIVERSARYMy compliments to you on your 10thAnniversary Issue. My own experiencewith out-of-school playing mainly involvesproductions, and I'm called on to playmany different styles. I found your inter-views with the people who are the best in awide variety of fields very educational;they helped me to grow, musically. Again,my compliments on the issue, and I hopeModern Drummer is around for at leastanother ten years.

Kevin PiresTulare, CA

Thanks for the opportunity to participatein your Consumer Poll. I am 36, and aftera ten-year hiatus, resumed drumming twoyears ago. Previously, I had played inschool and rock bands; now I am a mem-ber of a seven-piece group that playsmostly receptions and parties. I've alsoplayed in some pit bands with theatergroups, and I've played big band chartsregularly with some of the area's top musi-cians. What I'm leading up to is that I'mhaving a ball! And I have to give MD a lotof the credit. Each month you keep me cur-rent on everything drum-related. You'veintroduced me to the greatest names indrumming, helped me choose equipment,and eased me into reading once again. So,on behalf of all the other drummers like mewho look forward to every new issue ofMD, thanks and congratulations on youranniversary.

Kip GrantHudson Falls, NY

About a year ago, NduguChancier left the Crusaders.He just had too many otherthings he had to do. "Musi-cally we were going in two dif-ferent directions, and I wasstarting to hear some otherthings. I was locked-in in termsof my time, so I wasn't able totake the time to do anything Iwanted to do."

Before he became a memberof the Crusaders for two years,Ndugu was doing more pro-ducing than playing, so he'sgotten back into that full forceas well as writing and record-ing. Before he recordedMichael Jackson's Thriller,Ndugu got a lot of calls to dointricate, odd-time-signaturedates. "The word was out thatI was not a pocket commercialdrummer. Then Thriller cameout, and now the word is allmessed up. It's, 'What is he?' "

Not one to be pigeonholed,lately Ndugu has recorded withthe likes of George Duke, RayParker, Kenny Rogers, andLionel Richie. He has alsorecorded the soundtrack for

the film The Color Purple."That variety is what keeps mein it. It's a challenge to get upone day and work for KennyRogers, and the next day workfor George Duke. That haskept me from being special-ized, and I enjoy that."

He sees specializing as pre-senting some problems. Ndugusays that fighting the tendencyof the industry to limit artistsby pigeonholing them has beena constant battle. "The prob-lem I've had is that everyonejust wants to make me a drum-mer. I went to college formusic ed. I play keyboards,vibes, timbales, congas, andtimpani. I had such a nice rolegoing as a drummer that therest of it just got suppressed,but my main forte before theCrusaders was writing, pro-ducing, and playing recordingsessions. Historically, drum-mers have been the least musi-cal in the band. That, ofcourse, is a generality, butthere's been a stigma put ondrummers that they couldn'tread music, so people say,

'Drummers don't do anythingbut keep a beat. They don'tread, they don't write, andthey don't play the otherinstruments, so they don'tknow music.' I had to breakaway and say, 'I like workingwith bands and that's great,but there's another side of methat the world isn't getting andI want to give them that.' I hadto create that situation. I hadto create an outlet for mysongs and my production."

Another place where he is

able to get a variety of stimula-tion is with The Meeting,which consists of AlfonsoJohnson, Patrice Rushen,Ernie Watts, and himself.They got together in 1982 to dosuch festivals as "Stars of the'80s," and last year, when theidea came to them to worktogether in an ongoing capac-ity, they had so many meetingsthat they decided to call them-selves just that.

"With The Meeting, I cansupplement the playing. I canproduce and play on my ses-sions, and then go out withThe Meeting and be in a band.That will actually serve what Itried to get going with the Cru-saders, except that they had towork too much. With TheMeeting, I get a chance to playeverything. There are timeswhen we can be outside,straight ahead, or funky. Wedo the whole thing. The odd-time signatures are there andthe straight-ahead swing thingsare there, too," he explains,adding that they will be touringthis year. — Robyn Flans

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As of next month, DennyCarmassi will have been amember of Heart for fouryears, and it's a situation thathe's enjoying very much. "Iwas just thinking about thatthe other day," he says. "Thisis the longest I've ever been inone group. I would like for itto continue."

One of the things that Dennylikes about Heart is that thegroup truly functions as aband, so that he doesn't feel asthough he is merely a sidemanfor Ann and Nancy Wilson."It's pretty much a democ-racy," he says. "Ann andNancy are the media focalpoint, which is fine. There area lot of faceless bands outthere who don't have any stars,but we're lucky: We have two.Beyond that, everybody in thegroup has a role, and we knowhow important everybody iswithin the band. There's a lotof give and take, and everyoneis allowed to give opinions.Also, if you happen to disagreewith someone, your opinionsare not held against you,unlike some of the bands I'veplayed with. That's not to saythat we don't ever have our lit-

tle in-group arguments, butthings can always be workedout in this group, which isreally great. I think it may bebecause Ann and Nance arewomen that it functions likethat; they're always willing tolisten to different opinions."

One concrete example of theband's teamwork is on theirrecent Capitol album, Heart,

on which two of the songs—"The Wolf" and "ShellShock"—were written by thewhole band. "On the bandtunes," Denny explains,"Howie [Leese], Mark[Andes], and I will jam aroundand come up with the music.

Then the girls will write the lyr-ics and melodies." But even ontunes that are not band writ-ten, the whole group contrib-utes toward the final product."Everybody's given free rein,"Denny says. "Even when I firstjoined the group and waslearning the old songs, I couldplay whatever I wanted as longas I copped the basic grooveand the spirit of the song. Butwith the songs that Ann andNance write, everybody in thegroup has total freedom interms of creating their ownparts."

Currently, Heart is on theroad, as part of a tour thatstarted last August, and that islikely to continue through thesummer. As far as Denny isconcerned, touring is what it'sall about. "It sort of carries onthe tradition," he says. "Ifbands didn't tour, then kidswouldn't be inspired to bemusicians. Seeing a group liveis the kind of thing that getsyou really excited about play-ing, and gets you cranked forbeing a musician. So if we cankeep touring, I think that'sgreat. That's what we're allhere for." — Rick Mattingly

"It's time for me to go outand prove myself all overagain," says Vini "Mad Dog"Lopez, the E Street Banddrummer heard on BruceSpringsteen's first two albums,Greetings From Asbury Park,N.J. and The Wild, The Inno-cent, And The E Street Shuffle."I'm really tired of beingaccused of not being able toplay the drums, among otherthings. But that hurts most ofall."

Lopez claims he went into abookstore recently and foundwhat he calls, "a poorly writ-ten Springsteen biography thathas little to say about me thatwas fair or even accurate."Lopez won't name the book inprint for fear of drawing evenfurther attention to the inac-curacies. "And the worst thingis that the girl who wrote thebook never even bothered totalk to me," says Lopez. "It'snot like I'm hard to find. Myname is in the phone book."

All this has spurred Lopez toget back to playing drums androck 'n' roll on a regular basis.Presently, he's keeping thebeat for a Jersey Shore band

called J.P. Gotrock, whichalso includes bass player ViniRoslin. Longtime Springsteenfans might recognize the name.

Roslin, along with Lopez,played in Steel Mill, Spring-steen's most notable pre-EStreet Band outfit.

Says Lopez, "I'm also inter-ested in doing session work,

road work—anything andeverything to prove that Idon't deserve to be slurred inbooks and magazine articles."Is Lopez taking all this a bittoo far? "No, I don't think

so," he answers. "Actually,I've been meaning to resumemy career as a drummer forsome time now. For me, this isthe spark I need to get roll-ing." — Robert Santelli

Last year was one of manychanges for Phillip Fajardo,who is currently with GeorgeStrait. After seven years withthe Gatlins, Phillip left.According to Fajardo, "I felt Ineeded to be able to stretch outmusically a little bit, for one. Ifelt so stagnant. When you getinto a band situation like that,and you're playing the samesongs every night, it's hard tokeep them real fresh. To keepthe music fresh, I think youhave to play with other people.I probably could have con-quered all that though, but Ifelt I was really ready for abreak from the road. We allneed that from time to time toclear our heads out a little bit,so that was real good for me. Itput a whole new perspective onthe music and my life at home.I felt like I was getting out oftouch with my family. I wasmore or less a surrogate fatherand husband—someone whowould visit every once in awhile, and by the time I'd getreacquainted with them, I'dhave to leave again."

Phillip decided to concen-trate on his percussion com-pany, building his A.R.M.S.Systems drum racks, which areused by Larrie Londin. Butwhen that wasn't lucrativeenough, he went on the roadwith Johnny Rodriguez for afew months. When Rodri-guez's deal fell through, Phil-lip began to look for some-thing else. "At the end of thattour, we were in Texas, and theguy from the sound companyand I were talking. I told him Iwas going to be looking for agig. His sound company hadbeen working with George

Strait, and he thought Georgemight be looking for a drum-mer. I asked him to drop aword in for me. As I was head-ing back to Nashville, I got acall saying that there was apossibility that the positionwith George might open up,but then I found out they hadhired a friend of mine. I wentback to Nashville thinking Ihad to find another gig. I hadbeen home about six hourswhen the road manager forGeorge called and asked if Icould get the next plane out. Isaid you bet, and I've beenwith him ever since."

Strait, who won the CountryMusic Award for male vocalistof the year, is known for hiscountry swing, which blendscountry and jazz. "I call itcountry/jazz. It's got the samefeel as jazz swing. We stay in a2/4 type of rhythm and thereisn't any odd time, so that'sone of the major differencesfrom jazz swing. Also, therhythm section in regular jazzhas more freedom to impro-vise, whereas in the country,you've pretty much got to stickto the basic format. Otherwise,the two are very much alike,and it is called country swing.The drummer they tried outbefore me was a real good jazzplayer, but he'd play stuffwhere some of his phrasingwould go over the bar. Thatwould really throw the guys inthe band off, because they wereready to come down on thedownbeat," Phillip says, add-ing that he likes the variety thatthe blending of styles giveshim. You'll be able to catchhim on tour all year. —Robyn Flans

Another player with a vari-ety of activities going on isSwiss drummer Pierre Favre.One of Europe's premierdrummers, there is little hedoesn't do, and finally we, inthe United States, are gettingthe chance to see some of histalents. Of course, we have hadthe opportunity to experiencehis playing on vinyl throughECM's Pierre Favre Ensemblereleases. That group consistsof Pierre, Paul Motian, NanaVasconcelos, and Fredy Stu-der. About the music he com-poses for the quartet, Favresays, "I compose the music,but it's very much composedfor these people. People inEurope said they had neverseen Paul Motian so happy onstage. That's the way the musicis. I would very much like tocome to the U.S. with this."

In the meantime, Favre wasin the U.S. in the latter part of'85 performing six concertswith Tamia, which is when Icaught up with him. Describ-ing that musical experience,Pierre says, "She sings like aninstrument, although shedoesn't sing in terms of words.She sings over four octaves,very low and extremely high,"he says, adding that one of hisensemble's current albums iscalled Singing Drums. "Thereason we call it that is becauseI make the drums sing. Ofcourse I play rhythms, but Iplay a lot of metals like thetuned gongs and cymbals.Sometimes you hear differentvoices and one of them isTamia. It's very blended andwe work very much together intexture. It's not like I amaccompanying her while she

sings."In addition to all of this,

Pierre scored a film last yearcalled Almost ChristmasStory, and he has plans toscore the music for a film thisyear as well. He did a recenttour with Carla Bley, and healso has been touring with solopercussion concerts since 1969.And as if that isn't enough,Pierre also works with suchjazz artists as Barre Phillipsand Albert Mangelsdorff. Thisyear he also plans to return tothe States with Tamia.

"It feels very exciting to behere, because there is so muchfresh air, ideawise. I have metso many fantastic people andmany artists, and I feel fresh totry new ideas out. I love theway the audience reacts in theUnited States. It is so sponta-neous. It is different in Europe,depending on where you are.In Austria, which is a verymusical country, we felt com-pletely lonely until the end ofthe concert where theyapplauded. During the wholeconcert, it was like we were theworst musicians. But here, youimmediately have a reaction.

"The musician mentality isdifferent also, and it's a morespontaneous energy. It's,'Let's do it, and then we'll findout.' In Europe, we first findout if it will work, time passes,and then it's too late." —Robyn Flans

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Danny Gottlieb recordedwith John McLaughlin inMilan in January. The albumis due out soon. Josh Freese isplaying a 12-piece Simmons setin the group Polo, while JimKeegan is supplying acousticdrums to the band. Tony Col-eman has been working withthe group Windjammer inDaytona, Florida. Check themout at the Ocean Deck, ifyou're in the area. Steve Smithcan be heard on a live albumwith T Lavitz, Jeff Berlin, andScott Henderson, recorded at

Hop Singh's in Los Angeles.For the next two months, Sha-dowfax is scoring a film,Promises Kept, with Stu Nevitton drums. Marvin Kanerek hasbeen working on a Century 21jingle, a station ID for WNEV(Boston), and two tracks foran artist, Jude Johnstone. PeteMagadini is currently finishinga new book for the HalLeonard Publishing Corpora-tion entitled Drum Ears. JohnO'Reilly has been workingwith Peter Noone, and 1986projects include a tour with

Noone, studio projects, andseveral TV appearances.Bobby Arechiga is workingwith the band Danger Zone.Alex Van Halen is on the newVan Halen LP. A tour will fol-low shortly. John Dittrich is onthe new Restless Heart album.Gregg Bissonette has beendoing some TV and liveappearances with Gino Van-nelli, and he's the drummer inDavid Lee Roth's new band.King Kobra's new album,Thrill Of A Lifetime, in recentrelease with Carmine Appice

on drums, as well as coprodu-cer (with Duane Hitchings).King Kobra can also be heardon the title track of the film-score for Iron Eagle. CraigKrampf has been working withIdle Tears and Kim Carnes.Randy Bowles is working withBang-Shang-A-Lang. BobWise has been touring withDavid Allen Coe since March.Les DeMerle and his bandTransfusion will be at theFlame club in Chicago thismonth. — Robyn Flans

LOUIE BELLSON

Q. I read your interview in the January,'86 MD and noticed your respect forthe older players, such as BabyDodds, Jo Jones, Sid Catlett, andChick Webb. I have been searching forrecordings of these artists for sometime now, but have not had any luck. Iwould greatly appreciate it if youcould supply me with any hints onhow to acquire these recordings.

Scott WilkinsonOxford, OH

A. Obtaining recordings of the greatartists of the past isn't an easy job.You might try some record shops thatfeature vintage jazz records, such asold Count Basie recordings with JoJones in the rhythm section. There isone wonderful album by Jo Jones, justcalled Drums. I'm afraid I don't knowthe label. It's a fabulous album,because you hear Jo speaking, talk-ing about hi-hats, brushes, the bassdrum, and snare. This should be amust for every drummer. Youshouldn't have too much troublelocating that record, because it's notreally that old.

I have no idea where you can getBaby Dodds on record. I have analbum at home, but it was recordedmany years ago and is totally out ofprint. You usually have to track downsome private individual or collectorwho has some of these recordingsand can put them on tape for you.There is a magazine for record collec-tors, called Goldmine, which oftenlists records available for sale by indi-viduals. You can contact them at 700E. State Street, Iola, Wisconsin 54990.Or again, you might get lucky and dis-cover a record shop that specializes inanthologies or hard-to-find olderrecords. I encourage you to make theeffort, because the rewards are wellworth it. Good luck!

STEVE SMITH

Q. What type of hi-hats and cymbalsdid you use while recording "OnlyThe Young" on the Vision Questsoundtrack?

Chris MurrayNashville, TN

A. We recorded that track, as well as"Ask The Lonely" (from the Two Of AKind soundtrack), for the Frontiersalbum, but they were two of threetracks that didn't make it onto thealbum. For that entire session, I usedthe following A. Zildjian setup: 14"Rock hi-hats (two very heavy cym-bals); a 24" Heavy Ping Ride; 19" and17" crashes; a 22" swish; a 10" splash;and a UFIP icebell.

I remember doing something a bitunusual when recording "Only TheYoung." I wanted to achieve a hyp-notic effect on my drum part, becausethat was the feeling I got from the roll-ing guitar and keyboard parts. I playedmy left hand on the hi-hat, very lightlyand evenly, using the traditional grip.That left my right hand free for back-beats. The basic pattern was:

The beefed-up kick and snare soundsare sampled sounds that Bob Clear-mountain put in an AMS Harmonizerto trigger off my kick and snare.

I'd like to mention that lately I'vebeen using a new hi-hat setup thatsomeone at the Zildjian factory cameup with. It consists of two 13" cym-bals, the bottom being a heavy A. Bril-liant and the top being a medium K.They are crisp and tight, and at thesame time have a lot of body. Theywork great in the studio and live.

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ALAN GRATZER

Q. I saw you in concert recently andreally liked your drum and cymbalsound. Could you please tell me whatkinds and sizes of cymbals you'reusing, as well as the type of drum-heads?

Bob McCauleyGreenville, SC

A. Thanks for the compliments. I useZildjian cymbals, and my setupincludes a 21" ride, a 20" China type,an 18" Impulse, 19" and 18" Rockcrashes, a 19" medium-thin crash,and 14" Quick Beat hi-hats with siz-zles on the bottom cymbals. As far asdrumheads go, I switch according tothe situation (live versus concert), andalso according to my mood! Live, Iusually use Remo Ambassador clearheads, but I go back and forth withLudwig heavy coated heads, whichalso sound great—especially on thesnare. I would suggest you try eithertype and see which works best foryou.

GERRY BROWNQ. I saw you play on tour with LionelRichie in New York City at Radio City,and your drumming just knocked meout. Can you tell me how you playedwith the film of Diana Ross singing"Endless Love" with Lionel singinglive?

Laura CappellaThousand Oaks, CA

A. During the rehearsals for that tour,before we went on the road, wedecided to have Diana's voice, a clicktrack, the piano, and the bass part putthrough my headphones. Lionel'svoice wasn't in my headphones,because the important thing was to

have Diana's voice, the film, and thedrums all synchronized. Lionel canplay around with the melody if hewants to, but you can't play aroundwith the rhythm when it has to be insync with a film.

It was actually pretty easy to play,as long as the click and Diana's voicewere running alright. There were acouple of times where the film got alittle botched up in the projector, but98% of the time everything was fine.One thing I wish they could do—although I'm sure it would be expen-sive—would be to have a hologram ofDiana appear on stage with Lionel, asopposed to just the image on ascreen. That would be great.

Q. I've been considering playing professionally when I get out ofhigh school. My problem is that I haven't really had too muchexperience playing with other musicians, except for some schoolstuff. My chops are up and my lessons are going great. So my ques-tion is, would it be better for me to be playing with other people aswell as practicing on my own, or should I be concentrating mostlyon my study until I attend a music college?

C.H.Somerville, MA

A. Dedication to one's own course of study will generally producetremendous technical abilities. But music is a cooperative art and a"team" profession. You should definitely augment your personalstudies with as much outside playing as possible, in as many stylesas possible. You gain information from each person with whomyou play. Some of it comes through positive examples and somethrough negative ones. Learning how to tell the difference betweenthose two is an education in itself. You 'll be in better shape for theaudition process and ensemble work you'll be doing at whatevermusic college you attend if you have some group playing underyour belt. With tremendously few exceptions, drummers simplyare not able to make careers for themselves as solo artists. Sinceyou need other musicians in order to work, you should start play-ing with other musicians as early as possible in your musical devel-opment, so that it feels natural to you.

Q. I'm 14 years old, and I currently own a Remo PTS kit. I'mconsidering the purchase of a new kit, and would like my next oneto be my last. What brand would you suggest I buy?

T.O.Hinsdale, IL

A. When it comes to making a selection of drumkit brand, thatchoice must be your own. It must be based on many factors,including budget, kit model desired, options and accessories,sound preferences, and many other intangibles. The best thing todo is to shop around, and compare brands and models of kits thatare available. You mention that you 'd like your next kit to be yourlast. That can be the case with any brand, as long as you care forthe kit properly and treat it as a musical instrument. This meansgetting cases for it, and taking care when setting up and breakingdown. It also means performing periodic maintenance and clean-ing. A lot of a kit's longevity depends on the drummer, not thebrand of the drums. Any good-quality drumset can last a longtime; any one can be destroyed in a short time. That all depends onyou.

Q. Several years ago, I obtained a hardly used A. Zildjian"bounce" cymbal. It was attractive to crash, with its particularrise, white shimmer, angular drop-off, and yellow or green sound-ing bell. The cymbal also feels right for riding at times. I am nowcurious about the "bounce" designation, not having encounteredanother cymbal of this type. Does the apparent scarcity reflect thenumber made? If they are not a current type, when were they pro-duced and why were they discontinued? Was the name "bounce"derived from a distinctive playing technique, as compared to a"ride" or a "crash?"

T.K.Clovis, CA

A. According to Zildjian's Lennie DiMuzio, the term "bounce"was discontinued from the company's catalog some time ago. Atthe time, there were other cymbal designation terms like "dance"and "be bop." As new catalogs were printed, those terms werereplaced with new words like "ride," "ping ride," and "mediumride." However, the cymbals themselves are the same models."Bounce" cymbals were the traditional, all-around, general-pur-pose ride cymbals that can be compared to the medium ride cym-bals of today.

Q. I have decided to join the electronic revolution by incorporatingelectronic drums into my current acoustic set. But I have one prob-lem. I need a bass drum pedal similar to the Drum Workshop 5002double bass pedal, except backwards. I would like to put the pri-mary pedal beside my acoustic bass drum pedal (right foot), so thatI could switch back and forth between acoustic and electronic bassdrums with my right foot. Is such a pedal made?

R.S.West Des Moines, IA

A. There are actually two solutions open to you. A version of theDW 5002 is available in a left-footed design. You need only contactDW directly, at 2697 Lavery Court, Unit 16, Newbury Park, CA91320, (805)499-6863, to see if that pedal could be adapted to meetyour needs. The only difficulties might be encountered in clampingthe primary pedal to your acoustic bass drum hoop, and clampingthe secondary beater onto the electronic bass drum pad. Youshould discuss those problems with DW's Don Lombardi.

You might be able to obtain the results you desire without hav-ing to use an electronic bass drum pad at all, by employing eitherDW's EP-1 electronic bass drum trigger (which is basically DW'spedal in an upside-down mode), or the Shark, from MagnesiumGuitars, which is a totally new form of foot-operated trigger unit.Both are shown clearly in recent MD ads, and both are designed totrigger the bass drum module (or any other triggerable sound, forthat matter) of an electronic kit or drum machine without the needfor an actual bass drum pad on the drumset. You should be able toplace either of these pedals immediately adjacent to your acousticbass drum pedal and have the accessibility that you desire.

Q. In the April, '84 issue of MD, Tama offered a free 3' x 6' ban-ner of Neil Peart to anyone who purchased a Tama five-piecedrumset. The banner is shown on page 65. I would pay a lot for oneof those banners in mint condition. I have written Tama and havehad no reply. I'd appreciate any assistance you could offer.

B.S.Charleston, TN

A. According to a spokesman for Tama, those banners werestrictly a promotional item, and the company is not allowed tomake them available for retail sale. Thus, you cannot obtain such abanner from Tama directly. You might consider advertising in the"wanted" section of MD's Drum Market, as well as in any othermusical trade publications; it may be possible to obtain a bannerfrom a private individual in that way.

Q. In the September, '86 issue of MD, Robyn Flans wrote a finearticle on Vinny Appice. Vinny's book, Rock Steady, was men-tioned in the article. I have been trying to find out how to obtainthis book for quite some time. Your help would be greatly appreci-ated.

K.E.Redding, CA

A. If you are unable to find the book at a local music store thatoffers sheet music and method books, you may write directly to thepublisher, Warner Bros. Publications, at 265 Secaucus Road,Secaucus, NJ 07094, for ordering information.

Q. Will the Simmons company develop any kind of electronic cym-bal setup to go along with their lower-priced drumkits?

G.V.Tracy, CA

A. According to Simmons' Glyn Thomas, the company is in theprocess of designing a new electronic cymbal. Simmons was nothappy with the plastic cymbal it introduced a couple of years ago,and so has gone "back to the drawing board.'' Glyn could not givea specific release date, but did indicate that you should watch forthe new cymbal unit soon.

by Robyn Flans

It's 5:00 P.M. and Ed Shaughnessy is the last toleave the bandstand. Rehearsal began at 3:30 andwent long today. While bandleader Doc Severinsen

was off practicing, an outside musical director wasrehearsing the band for an artist who is appearing on theshow. At 4:00, Doc came in, and for 45 minutes, theband went over the day's music, including a piece theyhadn't played yet. Rehearsal has now ended, but Ed hasremained to note some musical alterations, leaving himonly 15 minutes to change his clothes. At 5:15, the bandmembers resume their positions on the bandstand, andat 5:30 on the dot, the ever-famous Tonight Show themeis played. There is a drum roll, Ed McMahon says hisusual, "Here's Johnny," and the live taping is off andrunning.

Ed Shaughnessy has one of the most coveted drumgigs in town. Some think it's a cushy job with theglamour and exposure of TV. Doc Severinsen agrees it'sthat, but also a lot of hard work. "There's no startingand stopping," the trumpeter says. "If they say, 'Do aband number,' and you get the tempo wrong orsomebody makes a clam, you don't stop and say, 7think we can do that better.' Whatever happens,happens."

A lot of people don't realize the amount of material amusician in the Tonight Show band must digest in aperiod of, say, a week. Nor do many people realize,unless they're in the studio audience, that the banddoesn't just play four bars of music each time it plays.It's a shame that the home audience can't hear it, butthe band is wailing throughout the commercial breaks.

What is required of the drum seat in the TonightShow band? "Everything," Severinsen answers. "Theyhave to be able to play everything from Dixieland toragtime to rock 'n' roll. Then there are novelty acts whocome in and say, 'When I step on my wife's stomach,give me a drum roll.' The drummer literally has tobecome part of the act. The life of the show can dependon the drummer slipping in a rimshot on an obviousjoke, but doing it with taste. And the drummer must bevery versatile. But besides ability and talent, which gowithout saying, there are other requirements, too, suchas personality. I need the kind of person who can giveme all of what I've mentioned and still be a really finehuman being. The drummer also needs to know, whenthose moments of tension come, not to make anysudden sounds. And I've got to have musicians with alot of personal discipline—that means people whopractice on their axes: Rehearsal was over an hour agoand Shaughnessy is still up there with his practice pad,practicing the basic rudiments. I need players who showup on time, don't talk when they're not supposed to,and who pay attention to the show. There's no room formessing around. A guy like Shaughnessy has to listen tothe show and know what's going on. He can't just waitP

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until the next tune starts. There may be a need for something he mustdo. The other thing that's important is that there's a rapport in ourband where the players really stick together. If you have somebody whois like a sore thumb, it just won't work. "

Obviously, it has worked for everyone involved for 22 years. Evenwhen the show moved from New York to California, Ed and Doc knewthey should stay together. "Ed knew the show, and he was part of it,"Severinsen explains. "Besides, we had a lot of things going on besidesthe Tonight Show at that time, and I needed him. It's that simple."

Speaking of doing other things than the show, the biggest misconcep-tion about Shaughnessy seems to be that the Tonight Show is all hedoes. It may be what has given him the most visibility, but when he's notdoing that, Ed is working with his own band, Energy Force, or main-taining a busy schedule of clinics. Education is of prime importance toEd, and imparting knowledge and inspiration to young drummers issomething for which he always makes time.RF: Teaching has always been of great importance to you.ES: People often thought you were not as good a player if you taught. Ihave always tried to remind them of Pablo Casals, Leonard Bernstein,and Isaac Stern. In drumming, I can mention Alan Dawson; I don'tthink teaching has hurt his playing. The truth of it is that there are notmany people who are class-A players and class-A teachers. Not manypeople at the top level combine both qualities.RF: I also think that many people who become successful are moreselfish with their time.ES: Yes, although I'm not even commenting on that. I'll say that's true,but if you have a love for teaching that needs to be gratified, then you doit. If you don't, that's fine too.RF: You haven't been teaching privately recently.ES: No, although I made a stab at it about a year or so ago, but then myclinic schedule picked up and I had to cancel lessons. I don't like to

cancel people, because they get revved up for the lesson like Iused to do. So I had to stop for a while, but I'll probably getback to it very soon.RF: So how is it gratifying? With your busy schedule, youobviously don't have to teach.ES: I started teaching over 25 years ago. I never teach begin-ners, because I feel there are a lot of people who can start themout and probably for less money than I get for my time. Sostudents were coming to me from ages 15 to 35. When youinvest in teaching time with your students and then, in a fewyears, they drop you a line or call you up to thank you for yourhelp, that means so much. I've got a 25-year-old relationshipwith some students now, and that's pretty terrific. It's like abig family.RF: Does teaching help you keep up with the times?ES: Absolutely. I have learned more about practicing byteaching than any other way. I would sometimes invent a sim-ple exercise to help solve a problem. I found out how much ithelped me by practicing myself. That's why at clinics I leavepeople with a lot of valuable information, because it's all beentried out on hundreds of students. Also, that's why many peo-ple who haven't taught, but want to do clinics, are barking upthe wrong tree. Many will get out there, play a drum solo, andthen say, "Any questions?" That's what I've heard, anyway.I think you have to have a background of teaching to really getin-depth. I have found that people are much more confusedwhen you get up there, and try to blind them with your footwork and play in 17/8. They think that's terrific, but if youdon't give any "how" and only the "what," they leave con-fused.RF: Over the past several years, have you found that you'vehad to change the emphasis in clinics from the wave of changeyou've seen?ES: I would say very specifically, the first and foremost thingis that, because of the lack of exposure to the jazz medium,jazz drumming has been in worse shape over the last ten yearsthan at any time in its history. I have nothing against the MTVsyndrome, but that is what a lot of kids coming up are hear-ing, and very little jazz. I find that I am spending more timeteaching the feeling of playing in 4/4 and 3/4—forget 5/4 and7/4—than really working on the drumset. Perhaps some rockdrummers will interpret this as my saying that jazz drummingis harder than rock drumming. I'm not saying that. I am sim-ply saying that, if you are constantly exposed to rock drum-ming, you are exposed to what many call vertical rhythm—meaning it's all even. Younger players can play that moreeasily than a jazz feel. I'm in a great position on the Tonight P

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"I'VE KNOWN A LOT OF MUSICIANSWHO HAVE GOTTEN INTO A

STATIC GROOVE AND WHO HAVEGONE INTO THE STUDIOS WHERE

IT'S COMFORTABLE AND EASY,BUT THEY'RE NOT PEOPLE WHO

ARE HUNGRY TO PLAY."

Show, because among many musical advantages of that job, I hear alot of young drummers. When they're playing on my drums, I'm sit-ting right beneath them on the stairs. Occasionally, the opening acthas come up so fast that that drummer has to play the Tonight Showtheme song. I cannot tell you the difficulty that some of these drum-mers, who played their acts very well, had playing that theme, simplybecause it wasn't the music they were used to. What I'm trying to sayis that, just like the jazz-oriented drummers shouldn't fall on theircans when playing a rock number, rock drummers shouldn't soundterrible playing the other thing. You don't have to sound great, butyou should sound professional.RF: So where does one get that well-rounded variety?ES: If you're not going to get it on the job, then you'd better practice itat home with records, and from time to time, get together with someother rhythm people to play that style. I spend a lot of time practicingnew rhythms as they come into our culture. I'm not too proud to dothat.RF: Can learning the jazz style help the rock player play rock better?ES: I think it can. The thing about jazz playing that I think helpseverything, whether it's rock drumming or studio drumming, is thatit's creative. That's why I'm glad I came up as a jazz drummer. Learn-ing to be creative helps anything else that you do, except perhaps sit-ting in with the symphony orchestra where you're required to playexactly what's written. In every other field of drumset playing, it helpseverything you do. Being required to come up with a different rhythmis being creative. I get drum parts on the Tonight Show where I readexactly what's on the paper, and the person in front says, "Can youdo something different?" I say, "I'm playing what's on the paper.Don't you like that?" "No, I don't like that." Sometimes it's the

person who wrote it, and so the writer will ask if I'll do some-thing different. That's being creative. I feel that jazz playinggives a person such a confident feeling of being creative. I knowa lot of players who play great, but who are not very creative.It's just like some drummers who play a very good solo, butwhen you've heard it once, you've heard it, and six months laterthere's not much variation. It's more of a routine. That's why Ilike Buddy Rich and Tony Williams. They don't tend to playthe same old thing. They give you some surprises.RF: We started this conversation about education. What areyour feelings about the state of the education process atpresent?ES: I'm very concerned about it. I'm tuned into the NAJE—National Association of Jazz Educators—and through them,we are finding out that a great many school-band music pro-grams have been cut. This is due to the fact that they are raisingsome of the academic standards, including subjects thatweren't included before. This takes up more of the school day,and therefore band can't be in the curriculum. The other thingsometimes is funding. They've been running short in a lot ofschools, although that doesn't seem to be the primary issue.Because of the increased work load, the students cannot seem tomanage everything. I recently went down to Atlanta, Georgia,to do a benefit performance for a new thing that we hope will fillthe gap—Community Jazz Centers, where people will teachjazz techniques to replace the missing jazz education in schools.RF: Where will the funding for this come from?ES: From volunteer concerts like the one I played. I was veryfortunate that the Selmer Company paid my way down there. Iwas happy to donate my services, but I needed somebody tocome up with some expense money. When I explained to themwhat it was about, they didn't have any vested interest, exceptthey believe in education. Not many companies are puttingmoney into education today from what I can tell.RF: What is your own educational background?ES: I graduated high school when I was 16 and was on the roadat 17. I'm mostly a self-taught player. I did have one teacher,Bill West, in New York. I studied with him for about two years.I only started playing drums when I was 14. I played piano for awhile, and I liked it. Someone owed my dad $20. This guycouldn't pay it back after a few months. My dad said, "Forget

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it," but the guy asked, "Doesn't your kid like music?" My dad said, "Oh yeah,he loves to tinker at the piano. He hates his lessons but he likes to play the blues."That was exactly right, so instead of the $20, he gave my dad an old snare drumand a bass drum with an old funny cymbal and a pedal. I just fell in love with it.Something just seemed to happen. My scoutmaster showed me how to hold thesticks, and after I fooled around for six months, he suggested that I find ateacher. I found Bill West, who taught me how to play the basics and got mestarted right. Then I went out and did the rest myself.RF: You only had two years of lessons, and then you went on the road?ES: I used to practice eight hours a day. I had a very unhappy home life. I had analcoholic father who was a good man, but it was traumatic. I was an only child,and music very, very definitely was a way out. That's not an unusual story. Apsych friend of mine says it's called doing the right thing for the wrong reason.But thank God for it. So I would go down in the basement in the apartmentbuilding, and if I muffled the drums enough, I could play. On Saturdays, I wouldgo down there for eight hours, and after school I'd go right down there with theradio and skip supper. I would practice and I would go to see the greats play. Ididn't have much money, but it was so cheap in those days that I could watch thegreat drummers for 50 cents—take a sandwich and stay all day. It's hard topicture this now, but when I was 15, I would go over to New York and stay innightclubs until 1:00 A.M. with no money. I'd meet friendly headwaiters andthey'd think, ''Ah, the crazy kid from Jersey. Go sit in the corner.'' This is whereI saw my first idol, Sidney Catlett, who in some ways shaped my playing morethan anybody. He could do it all. Sidney Catlett had one of the most infectious

pulses on drums ever. It's funny, but people don'ttalk about feel enough. I keep telling people that it'snot the what; it's the how. So Sidney had this terrificpulse—alive and sometimes subtle and very strong.The thing that impressed me about him was that Ibecame friendly with him and he took me under hiswing a little bit. He once made me play when I was15 1/2. I had only been playing a year and he said,"Sit in!" The eminent Ben Webster was on saxo-phone, Erroll Garner was on piano, and John Sim-mons was on bass. This was an all-star quartet forthe late '40s. I went up terrified and shaking. Hemade me play two tunes—a medium tune and a fasttune—and I thought it was just awful. But even BenWebster, who frightened a lot of people, said it wasgood. And Sidney said to me, "After this, it will bebetter," meaning that the first time is the hardest.

Another reason why he was so great was that hehad a fantastic touch. He was a very big man andhefty, yet jazz writer Whitney Balliett said that bigSidney, who was his favorite drummer, "played thedrums with the velvet skills of a surgeon's scalpel."Everything flowed. A lot of people say I look grace-ful when I play. I think that has a lot to do withhaving seen Sidney. That was my first impressionabout how to play the drums. You don't get a herniaor become spastic about it. I saw Sidney play onenight with Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker. Theywere playing all of the hot bebop tunes of the day,and he sounded terrific. In fact, he recorded withthem, showing how well he could fit into that,although he came more out of the swing era of the'30s. Then he took me across the street to the Dixie-land club and sat in with Eddie Condon and his Chi-cago jazz players in an entirely different kind ofmusic, and he sounded the greatest. So the impres-sion I got was that Sidney could play it all and sosympathetically. He was famous for asking a solo-ist, "Which cymbal do you like me to play behindyou?'' Have you ever heard anyone say that? And hewas a great soloist, unlike other fine rhythm players,like Davey Tough, who played with Woody Her-man, but who didn't like solos and didn't play themat all. Sidney would fascinate you. He would play onthe drums for five minutes with mallets, and you'd

"IF I HEAR SOMETHING I DON'TTHINK I CAN IMMEDIATELY

DO, I'LL SIT DOWNAND TRY TO DO IT."

hear the melodies. That was much more of a musicalapproach for that time. In later years, you saw a continua-tion of that influence by Max Roach, for instance, who isthought of highly as a melodic player. He loves Sidney.Everybody loves Sidney. Sidney was my main man. I thinkI was very lucky in that, when I was first learning, I couldgo and watch him play every night.

When you ask what kind of education I have, I went toanother kind of college. I meet so many kids who wouldhave loved to have had those opportunities that I, a poorkid, had. I walked for a half an hour to the subway frommy house. The subway cost me 10 cents, and that took meto 33rd Street in New York. I walked from 33rd to 52ndStreet where they had all the famous jazz clubs. It wascalled Jazz Alley. Then, I'd spend a quarter on a Coke,which I nursed all night, and 10 cents to come home again.It took some guts to learn how to sneak in. I was shy andintroverted, so for me, it was very difficult. But the drive tohear the music always overcame that. I learned the backdoors, I learned how to come in through the kitchen, and Ilearned that people were friendly to you when theythought, "He's not a bad kid." Then, at that same time,the modernists were coming in, and I would hear MaxRoach and Art Blakey—two of my favorite players. So Ihad the bebop influence, but I had Sidney as more of abase. He kind of covered it all.RF: What did you spend your eight hours practicing?ES: I would practice what I would call half and half. Iwould practice technique for an hour, and I'd practice witha record for an hour. In those days, since bebop was thedominant new form, I was very attracted to it. Fast temposwere the vogue—I mean very, very fast tempos. I'll tell youhow I got my first job. I thought, "How am I going to getto play fast like Max Roach and Art Blakey?" I went outand shopped for the fastest record I could find, which atthat time was Gene Krupa's "Lover." I wore out threecopies of that record, because I would play that record tentimes every day. Then I found a faster record—"Chero-kee"—and I wore out a couple of copies of that. I did thisevery day over a period of six months, and I got really goodat that. This is the kind of practice I wish more peoplewould do. Not many drummers practice rhythm. Anyway,Bud Powell came to sit in on this trio gig, and the drummerasked me to play because he wasn't feeling well. So I satdown with Bud Powell and a bass player. He played"Cherokee," one of my practice tunes, for 25 minutes,and I made it! Bud Powell was the leading light of beboppiano and I was playing with a big Max Roach influence atthe time. Jack Teagarden, who comes from the periodbefore bebop, said, "Hey kid, that was great. Do youknow how long you played that tune?" I said no, and hesaid, "Twenty-five minutes. My drummer can't make thefirst two nights of my gig next weekend. We're next door tothe Downbeat Club. How would you like to do it?"You've got to remember that Teagarden wasn't going toplay that kind of music, but he played fast. In his day, hewas the fastest trombone player. So I had my first profes-sional job in New York.

From those two nights, a lot more came. People say you

SightRead-ing

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by Ed Shaughnessy

Here are two examples of Tonight Show sight reading that havecome up over the last few months. Although they are not terriblydifficult, we get the music only a minute before it is to be played, sothere is scarcely any time to work out stickings, etc. Without look-ing at the examples beforehand, take this page to your drumset andtry to play the first example, playing Pattern A four times andPattern B two times. You'll see right away that it's the "do it rightnow" factor that's tough. That's why fast, accurate reading is thegoal to shoot for if TV or recording work is to be in your future.

The second example is becoming all too common: the "impos-sible to play" part that was recorded with two or more drummersand/or a drum machine! At the tempo given, the hi-hat part alonecalls for two hands, so the snare/tom pattern would require a Mar-tian with a third (or fourth) arm. The only solution, of course, is toplay the drum patterns, and use whatever hi-hat pattern you canmanage. Here again, the time factor may dictate your working thepattern out after the rehearsal, when everyone but you has taken acoffee break.

As in all music, if you get a good groove with the most importantpatterns in there, most reasonable people will be satisfied. Oftenthough, you have to remind them that the written part is a compila-tion of multiple players, drum machines, overdubs, etc. One mel-low guest conductor said quite honestly to my above description ofa totally "monster" part, "Hey man, you're right. There werethree drummers on that date."

byRobin

Tolleson

D ONNY Baldwin's arms are raised up almost level with hisshoulders, like a well-trained hitter in baseball, as he pow-ers out the Starship's "We Built This City." His head

shifts from side to side, surveying the action below his riser. Hiseyes dart around hungrily, waiting to catch up to Craig Chaquico'smad beelines about the stage or for Grace Slick to flash a sign. Hebegins a big drum fill leaning into his kit, but by the time he reacheshis floor toms, his body is tilted back, ready to climb up and reachhigh for a cymbal crash.

With its new album Knee Deep In The Hoopla, the Starshipdisplays a more unified sound than has been heard from the groupin recent years, driving out straight-ahead, melodic, R&B-tingedrock that may win a brand-new legion of fans. Donny Baldwin,who joined the Starship four years ago, has seen the change andlikes it. In fact, the drummer has a legitimate claim in the group'snew feel and sound.

The 34-year-old native of Palo Alto, California, some 30 milessouth of San Francisco, brought an impressive track record withhim into one of the city's reigning rock traditions. Six years withthe Elvin Bishop group helped whip Baldwin into top shape, andwhat a great gig that was for a funky white boy. The drummer'sR&B roots shine through on Bishop recordings like "FooledAround And Fell In Love"—the way he brings it way down—thetight funk of "Struttin" My Stuff" where he also tears it up onvocals with Mickey Thomas, or the tough, solid playing on"Travelin' Shoes," from Let It Flow, a Southern-rock extrava-ganza on Capricorn in 1974 that featured Charlie Daniels, DickieBetts, Toy Caldwell, Sly Stone, and Steve Miller.

On Mickey Thomas' 1977 solo album, As Long As You LoveMe, Baldwin splits drumming duties with Jeff Porcaro and comesout sounding very strong next to the L.A. session master. Baldwincontributed to Pablo Cruise's A Place In The Sun, recorded twoalbums with the band Snail, and played with former DoobieBrother Tom Johnston before getting taken up in the Starship,once again joining Mickey Thomas. Thomas and Baldwin alsohave an R&B/Gospel revue that they throw together on specialoccasions—like when the Starship isn't touring or recording—called Little Gadget & the Soulful Twilites.

Completely self-taught and rooted in the groove, Donny refersto himself as a "backbeat drummer." He started with the Starshipwhen Aynsley Dunbar vacated the drum throne after recording theWinds Of Change album in 1982. After Baldwin auditioned, theband listened to no one else. Last year's Nuclear Furniture albumbrought the Starship back to the public eye with the hits "Layin' ItOn The Line" and "No Way Out," with Baldwin lending vocalsupport, as well as the drum foundation. But as respectable as thedrums sound on Furniture, producer Peter Wolf makes them leapoff the vinyl on Hoopla, with all sorts of sampling and digital drumeffects.

RT: Knee Deep In The Hoopla is an altogether different album forthe Starship.DB: It's definitely different. We're taking a chance. We used a lotof outside writers, too. We were getting tapes from other peopleand from our producers. They were playing these songs, and theirsongs were just kicking our songs' ass. So we said, "Well, whynot?" I'm glad we did it. I'm glad we're taking the chance just tosee what happens, because the average listener isn't going to knowthat anyway. I think it ' ll broaden our whole thing about writing.Plus, I really think that we needed a change.RT: I'm not taking anything away from [guitarist and original Jef-ferson Airplane member] Paul Kantner, but the band does comeoff sounding a lot more unified without Kantner's songs.DB: Yeah, it's the '80s. I couldn't stand playing those tunes, man.Listen to the last record [Nuclear Furniture]. He has three songs onit, and every time I play that record or tape, I always skip thosesongs, because they just don't fit. They're so different. That was agood record, too, except for those songs.RT: "No Way Out" is definitely happening, and "Layin' It OnThe Line" is great where you break into the chorus with that dou-ble-time tom-tom thing.DB: I have the Linn programmed through the whole song. WhenI'm playing on the verse, it's just going chick chick chick. You goto the chorus and it's the tom-toms, while I'm just playing verysimple on the bell of the cymbal.RT: The drum sounds on your new album are radically differentfrom the ones on Nuclear Furniture.DB: Totally different, yeah. On about three songs, I just played theregular acoustic kit, and sometimes we'd run it into the Simmonsbrain with the snare to get a different snare sound by tightening upthe snare and also doubling it. Peter would run it through the AMSand do different things with samples. We used a lot of Linn andincorporated everything together, so it is different. There are dif-ferent sounds on each song. I love it, and I'm learning about all thisstuff that I don't know anything about. I'm ready for that. Iwanted it to sound different and to be different from what the Star-ship usually has sounded like. Why not? Take a chance and seewhat happens.RT: On "We Built This City," the snare sound is awesome, andthere are some suction-type sounds on the turnarounds that arereally nice.DB: You'll probably have to talk to Peter Wolf. It's great. In fact,I didn't even know it sounded quite like that until the final mix.They were doing all kinds of little tricks. He did some stuff with meon that song with different keyboard sounds right on the snare.Peter's amazing. He's a drum freak, even though he's a keyboardplayer. He studied drums, which I've never done. I've given les-sons but never studied.RT: So you're completely self-taught?P

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DB: Yeah, I've never had a lesson. I started playing just because itturned me on. I was totally into sports and stuff like that when Iwas a kid, and when I turned about 16, I started getting turned onto music—really turned on to it. I couldn't say why. It was justsomething inside of me. I think that, from doing sports and stufflike that, I had the coordination to get on a set of drums and notfeel really awkward. I listened to a lot of Beatles music, Hendrix,Bonham with Led Zeppelin, and Dino with the Rascals. I listenedto that fat backbeat stuff, especially Bonham—kick and snare allthe way. The guy was a master of that. I think I was doing myhomework or something when I heard James Brown come on. I gothigh off it. I asked my father to rent me a snare and a cymbal.RT: When did you first start playing?DB: Well, I grew up in Palo Alto, lived there all through school,and then moved up here. I started playing around in differentclubs, knew all the boys in Pablo Cruise, and played with thoseguys for a while. I did percussion and vocals on A Place In TheSun. I played with Elvin Bishop for about six years. He got MickeyThomas in the band as a background singer, and two albums afterthat, Mickey sang "Fooled Around And Fell In Love," which wasa big hit for Elvin.RT: It's hard to keep Mickey in the background.DB: Well, that's what we first got him for—a background singer.He's from Georgia, and he was singing in a Gospel-type quartetcalled Gideon & Power, which I had been playing with. It was a lotof fun. I love Gospel, and I love R&B. That's where my heart andsoul are. I like good soul music, and I love funky music, straightahead, backbeat—you know.RT: You must have been influenced by David Garibaldi then.DB: Yeah, he's great. He's got that feel.RT: What kind of gig was the Elvin Bishop band?

DB: I learned a lot. It was a good gig at the time, because youdidn't really have to have a big record to go out and tour. You'd goout and support somebody. We were on Capricorn Records out ofMacon. They did the Allman Brothers, Charlie Daniels, Wet Wil-lie, and the Marshall Tucker Band, so we toured with all thoseguys. We also toured with ZZ Top and all those Southern bands. Itwas a lot of fun. We had a great time, but after a while—nothingagainst Elvin—it just wasn't working. So Johnny Vee, the guitarplayer, and I just kind of filtered out of there.

After Elvin, I got in a situation in Santa Cruz, California, withthis band called Snail that had a two-record contract. After about ayear, I left that band and played with Tommy Johnston from theDoobie Brothers for a year. Then, that kind of fizzled out. ThenSteve Price, the drummer with Pablo Cruise, got in a motorcycleaccident, and broke his arm and a leg. I had to get up at 8:00 thenext morning and learn Pablo's stuff, so Pablo could open forTommy. I did both gigs that day. Then, we went out for eight ornine weeks on tour. It was a lot of fun—good people, good band.Mickey and I put a band together called Little Gadget & the SoulfulTwilites, which was like a soul revue. We played old songs by SamCooke and Wilson Pickett. We had something like nine or ten peo-ple on stage. It was a fun band. We didn't make a whole lot ofmoney, but it was fun. You just get up there and play. I love play-ing that stuff.RT: Little Gadget played a lot of that double-time kind of feel.DB: Yeah, just the straight-ahead stuff. It's fun to listen to thoseold records. Those guys had a style all their own, even though itwas really simple. When stuff's simple like that, sometimes it'shard, because it's that feel that you have to lay down. It was goodfor me.RT: When you were coming up, who did you listen to in terms ofdrummers?DB: My turn on was Buddy Rich for a long time when I was little,but I think everybody's was. I listened to Garibaldi, of course,when Tower was big around here. I don't know the cat who playswith James Brown, but I just basically listened to that type ofstraight-ahead drumming. Vinnie Colaiuta is great. I love the wayPorcaro plays. He plays with a lot of attack, and that's what I liketo do. He still plays straight ahead, and I think that's what it'sabout. You've got to make it lock. You've got to make it kick. I'ma backbeat drummer. It's not that I don't have a lot of flash, butthe reason they make drum machines is so you can program themjust to lay it down.RT: How did your audition for the Starship go?DB: Mickey called me up one day. He'd gotten with the Starshipabout a year or two earlier. He said that they were getting rid ofAynsley, and asked if I wanted to come down and play. I said sure.Scotty Ross, who was working on the drums at that time, said notto bring any drums down. He said, "We've got a kit here thateverybody's playing on, so it all sounds the same." I got downthere, and these guys had brought their own drums in. I askedScotty what drums I was going to play, and he said, "I've got themacross the street." I looked at them and just said, "Yecchh. Scotty,do me a favor. Get Aynsley's snare and Aynsley's kick, and I'llwork with these toms." Previous to that, Mickey told me whatsongs to listen to. I came in and played it. I was the last guy to play,and then they had a meeting. Craig came over and said, "Welcometo the band." It was good to be back with Mick. We have spentyears together playing. Plus, we have the same influences, and wesing very well together.RT: How aware were you of previous Starship and Airplane drum-mers?DB: Not too much at all. I was aware of Aynsley, but that's aboutit.RT: That story about using Aynsley's snare and kick drum is inter-esting.DB: Yeah. Well, all these guys were coming in, and it sounded tome like they knew the songs by heart. If you're going to get a gig

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like that, you've got to come in and play yourself. You can't listento a record, cop every lick on there, and play all those licks whenyou audition. I just figured they were used to Aynsley's snare, and Iwas sure they were used to his kick. It was different from what I wasused to, but it was what they were used to, and that fit. I don'tknow where that idea came from, but I'm glad I thought of it. Hewas in the band for three years, and they had to be used to thatsnare and kick.RT: You seem to do most of your playing on the kick and snare.DB: Yeah, that's basically my style—backbeat, kick ass, straight-forward. It's very simple. Try to think about what you're playingbefore you get there if you can. Do that especially at rehearsals.Then, it will come to you naturally when you've got it down. Basi-cally, you have the kick, snare and hat, and then you incorporatedifferent things. Lately, I've been incorporating a Simmons, withan acoustic snare triggering it. Then, I use two Simmons pads, andsometimes live I run the kick through the Simmons, too, so I canget different sounds for certain songs. I didn't even know youcould do that until I got hip to the Simmons stuff a couple yearsago. You can get a lot of different sounds. You can get like a realtight, real snare-y type of brassy sound, or you can punch it intothe second mode or third mode and get a really fat, snares-this-bigsound. It's cool.RT: What is it like working with a rock legend like Grace Slick?DB: She's beautiful. I love her to death. She's really gotten herthing together, you know. I love being with her on stage and hang-ing out with her.RT: She sounds great on "Rock Myself Asleep."DB: Yeah, Katrina & the Waves wrote that. She needs a song likethat. She just has the voice. I don't know about you, but when Ihear her voice, I remember "White Rabbit" and "Somebody ToLove." People love her. When she walks out on stage, people gonuts. She's a legend, and she's still alive. I hope I live to be 45, youknow, especially in rock 'n' roll.RT: It's not always easy to tell if it's Mickey or Grace singing.DB: Oh yeah, their voices are very close. A lot of people say that.That's good. When I first started in the band, she'd be watchingMickey when Mickey was singing, and she learned a lot of soulfulR&B licks, which was very good for her. I'm sure he learned stuff,too. They do match very well.RT: Has being a singing drummer affected your playing at all?DB: I don't know if it's affected my playing, but it's gotten me a lot

Photo by Fred Carneau

more work. I've always loved to sing, and a lot of people ask me,"Isn't it really hard to sing and play?" It depends on the song.Sometimes it is hard for me, and I'll voice my opinion on it. Butthen sometimes you can work on that and get it down to whereyou're not thinking about it, and it just comes naturally, which itdoes most of the time for me. I'm glad it does, because I love tosing, and it helps Mickey and Grace out. I don't really have a leadvocal style. I'm a harmony singer, and I can sing way up high anddown deep. Yeah, there are not too many of us who can do that.It's a plus. Basically, it's not that hard. If the song isn't that weird,then it's cool.RT: You must have a good ear.DB: I think I do. When we go into the studio, I help Mickey outwith a lot of the backgrounds. I do some arranging and show himlicks to sing. I do hear stuff that he doesn't hear, and then when Iexplain it to him, he hears it. That makes me feel good. It helps himout, and I feel more inside. I sing on every song except "LoveRusts" on the new album. I don't really sing by myself on anythingexcept "Hearts Of The World" at the very end. I'm doing a lot ofhigh stuff. Mick and I are kind of trading off, just doing differentlicks and stuff on the ride out.RT: The snare on that song "Sarah" sounds like it has an effect onit.DB: I sat in the studio and went boom chick boom chick boomchick. Peter Wolf ran it through an AMS and made it go bo-bo-bo-boom chi-chi-chi-chick bo-bo-bo-boom chi-chi-chi-chick. There'sno hi-hat or anything on it. Then, I put a little Simmons on it in theback.RT: So he got it perfectly in sync to sound like a 16th-note kind ofthing.DB: Yeah. It sounded very strange to me at first, because it was justlike, "Peter, you just want snare and kick, man?'' He said, "Wait,just wait." As far as I remember, he ran it through the AMS andput this delay on it, and then I just incorporated some rolls onSimmons.RT: On the song "Tomorrow Doesn't Matter Tonight" . . .DB: There's a lot of Linn in there. I'm playing some drums, butmostly it's a lot of Linn. Peter's got this Linn that's like a hot rod.It has all new chips, you know—all kinds of stuff. That was onesong I hated at first, because I didn't want to sound like a machine.As it turned out, I liked the song, but it seemed like it wasn't me. Ican always tell a Linn kick because of the sound. When you're

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EROME Cooper has enjoyed a nearly20-year career as a critically ac-claimed drummer who has attracted

listeners who prize originality, imagina-tion, and technical ability in a percussion-ist. Probably best known as the drummerwith the jazz collective The RevolutionaryEnsemble, Cooper also laid down the beatfor such innovative, and sometimes con-troversial, players as Cecil Taylor, SteveLacy, Sam Rivers, Andrew Hill, and TheArt Ensemble of Chicago. Anthony Brax-ton picked him as the drummer for hisdebut album for Arista back in 1974.Today, he continues in his decidedly inde-pendent ways by concentrating almostexclusively on playing solo, for reasonsthat he explains in the following interview.

I first met Jerome on the evening beforethe interview took place, when he gave anhour-long solo performance at the TuftsUniversity "Jazz Now" Festival. For thatconcert, which he refers to throughout theinterview, Jerome began by standing at hisdrumkit and bowing his cymbals, produc-ing long, pure tones that quietly drew theaudience into the music. He danced withbells on his ankles as he bowed. After heseated himself, he bowed a saw, and madesounds similar to the bowed cymbals, buthe played more complex melodies. Gradu-ally, the music grew in complexity as heplayed a beautifully orchestrated blues onthe African balaphon, with accompani-ment from his sock cymbal, bass drum,and a Mexican reed instrument called achiramia. The climax was a tour-de-forcedrumkit workout, during which Cooperinterwove simple riffs with intricate pat-terns. It was the kind of structured andthoughtful, but emotional, performancethat one critic described as "meticulousintensity."

Cooper is a compact, muscular manwith penetrating eyes. Like his gaze, hisspeaking manner is direct and frank. Hedoes not mince words, but he tempersmuch of his dismay with an ironic sense ofhumor. On paper he may sound arrogant,but his words reflect the depth of his con-

victions, and the revolutionary fervor of asensitive artist who cares about his instru-ment and his chosen art form.

Cooper laughs readily and often. AsJerome, producer Alan Ringel fromAbout Time records, and I were leavingthe Cambridge restaurant where the inter-view took place, Cooper said to me, almostby way of apology, "I'm not always thisserious, you know. I just like to hang outand have fun, too."JC: One of the problems with NorthAmerican jazz drumming is that it doesn'thave any roots. All other drummers,except European and American, have theirown music. African drummers have theirmusic. American Indians have theirs.Their music is based on certain rituals withrhythms that have been passed down forthousands of years. One of the aspects ofdrums you're dealing with, since theinstrument is so ancient, is the ritual part.I'm going into ritualism, but I don't havethese ancient tunes like African drummers,so I have to make up my own. But you haveto understand, "When in Rome, do as theRomans do." This means that I couldn'tget up in a concert hall and play for threedays continuously, but I could do that inthe jungle. I have to structure music that isgeared for the environment. There is noconcert hall that would let me get up andperform for three consecutive days. NowLaurie Anderson has a piece, "UnitedStates Of America," which lasts for threedays, but not consecutively. She plays onenight, goes home, and comes back, whichis a very good idea.

I don't play African music. I really wantto stress that. I use African instruments,but I don't play the music. My approachisn't African. It's hard to listen to Africanmusic unless you go there, because whenyou hear African music on record, youhear excerpts from day-long perform-ances. So you hear them and say, "Whatcomplex rhythms!" Well, that's becausethey've been playing since 5:00 in themorning, and the person with the taperecorder came to them at 2:00 in the after-

noon, so they're into it by then. If you hearthem when they start out, they're playingsoft and slow. So in order to really playAfrican or Indian music, you have to be inAfrica or India. Therefore, I don't playAfrican music. If you really wanted somecultural identification, I'm coming morefrom American Indian. American Indiansgive a tone. They don't play rhythm. Theyplay [taps out a simple beat] all day long.They're more into sound, rather than play-ing polyrhythms.

In order to deal with the music of thedrums, you have to know about worldmusic, because drums are the only instru-ment represented in every culture. You cango anywhere, and they're going to havesome form of drumming, and I have to beaware of that. So of course, I know aboutAfrican music, but also Native American,Indian, Tibetan, rock 'n' roll, funk, andclassical. What you hear is a uniting linkbetween everyone. No one person inventsanything. If you look at any new thing,you'll find that people all over the worldare into certain parts of it. Drummers haveto be aware of all cultures, because that'swhat makes up the music of the drums.EH: Why do American drummers have noroots?JC: One part of it is psychological. Thedrums represent the subconscious. In oursociety, the subconscious is something notto be dealt with. The subconscious has todo with pure emotion, which we don't dealwith in our society. Everything is rational-ized and intellectualized. And so the capa-bilities of the instrument, only in our soci-ety, are not exploited.

Another part of it is that black peopledon't have a tradition in America. It wascut off. When they brought the slaves overfrom Africa, one of the first things theytook away from them was the drums. Andeven today, black Americans don't havesomething to identify with. White Ameri-cans can identify with Europe. They stillhave a European hook-up. You've gotLincoln Center and other places for Euro-pean culture. It's not the same with the

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drums. The drums were cut, and drum-mers don't have anything to relate to. Sodistortion happens.EH: What kind of distortion?JC: Since the drums have been repressed inAmerica, people have gotten all these dis-torted ideas about what the drums are andwhat they should do. So they come up withstereotypes. If you don't play like TonyWilliams, Elvin Jones, or Steve Gadd, youcan't play. I'm only talking about drum-mers, because it's different for saxophoneplayers. None of the harmonic instrumentsgo through this. So with the drums, I hadto go through the stereotype. Drummersare supposed to be strong and play realhard. If you don't play crash, bang, boom,you can't play.

It's like any other stereotype. Rightnow, the stereotype for black people isMichael Jackson. If you don't have theMichael Jackson look, you're not beauti-ful. When I was growing up, the thing wasthat straight hair was good hair. You can'tput the blame on one group of people.There's always an interaction. It's not justwhite people. It's black people's fault, too.So I went through all of that, and I don'tlet that stuff bother me, because I under-stand what's happening.EH: In your press release material, you callyourself the "master drummer of sacredrhythms." What are "sacred rhythms"?JC: To me there are two types of rhythms.There are fixed rhythms, which are writtenout. You can play them using notation.Then there are what I call "sacredrhythms," which you get to through

improvisation. People who are playingand who have been practicing doing timejust get to a certain level, musically, whereeverything that they've been practicingcomes out differently. It comes out assomething that you can't even practice.It's about improvisation, so I deal withthose kinds of rhythms.

When you're playing improvised music,there are a lot of things you have to takeinto account: acoustics, emotional envi-ronment, how the people are feeling at thetime of the performance. It gets down evento the producer and the people who arepresenting the event. All of that has a lot todo with how the music is going to comeout. You have to flow with the environ-ment, instead of trying to force something.And that's an aspect of sacred rhythms.

A lot of times, people will try to playwhat they've been practicing exactly thesame way in performance as they've beendoing it at home, and that can't be done. Itmakes sense in classical music or in what I

call fixed rhythms. If you've been dealingwith these rhythms and you want to play itexactly the same way, it makes sense. Butwhat happens to some drummers is thatthey say, "Oh, I like that. I'm going to doit," and they're forcing rhythms that youjust can't play.

Sometimes I feel like I'm being pre-sumptuous by using that term. I'm not reli-gious—not insti tutionalized religion.Everyone is born religious. But in order todescribe certain feelings—certain things inmy music that I'm trying to get to—I usethat word. I don't like "sacred rhythms"because people tend to stereotype. But it'sthe only word I can use right now that candescribe these types of rhythms that I'mtrying to get.EH: You're describing an inspiration, notnecessarily in a religious sense, but some-thing you're inspired to do, given every-thing happening around you.JC: Right, right. You know who reallydeals with what I call "sacred rhythms"?Cecil Taylor. When you play with Cecil, hejust gives you notes, so it can go any way inthe performance. And that's anotheraspect of sacred rhythms.EH: So that, in the interpretation of thetune, you can play the note in any octave atany speed.JC: Right.EH: What are the ancient aspects of themusic that you want to bring out?JC: The ancient aspect of the drums issound. First of all, the drums are not aboutrhythm. They're about sound. In order toget to certain rhythms, you have to havecertain tonal figures. So that's what I deal

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with. That's another aspect of "sacredrhythms." I deal purely with sound inorder to get what I do. I deal with certainsound frequencies.

Let's go back to the beginning. The old-est known drum is from 6,000 B.C. Sowhen you play the instrument, you have totake into consideration the sociological,psychological, and symbolic aspects ofwhat these people were thinking of at thetime. I think that, when the drums wereinvented, the people were not mathemati-cal enough to think of rhythms. The drumswere not invented as a rhythmic instru-ment. They were invented as a soundinstrument, to produce certain soundspeople could sing and feel in their bodies.

Even though the drums were the firstexternal instrument of Man, basically thedrums haven't been invented yet. In myworld, who are the greatest drummers?Miles Davis is the greatest drummer, andso is Cecil Taylor. To me, any physicalinstrument is an illusion. As an artist, youcan be fooled. You can look at an instru-ment and say, "Oh, this is a drum, so Ican't do this. I can't do that." You cansuccumb to all these limitations. But youcan go past all that.

I don't look at my drumset as one instru-ment. I'm dealing with four instruments,so there's a certain orchestration I have tobe constantly doing. My bass drum is itsown instrument, so I had to develop a tech-nique for it. Having two bass drums isunnecessary. It doesn't make sense. Imean, it makes a certain amount of sense,but I wouldn't want to carry all that stuffaround. You can do the same thing withone as you can with two.

Drums are an illusion. Physical objectsalways present illusions. The reality is theenergy they create that makes you feel. It'show you press on it, and you have to havecontrol to the hil t . My snare drum andtom-tom are one instrument, my cymbalsare a separate instrument, and my sockcymbal another. So when you're playingthe music of the drums, there are certainorchestrations of the set you have to con-sider. For instance, last night, when Istarted playing the blues on the balaphon,the bass drum stopped, and then it came

back in. That was written out. I knew thebass drum didn't have a part in it. Some-times the bass drum might take the lead,while the snare drum becomes secondary.EH: When people call you "the humanmetronome" because they're reacting tothe repetition of the rhythm more than thetone quality, do you think that's a wrongemphasis or an overemphasis? There isrepetition, and people do key in on that.JC: You have to understand that one of thebasic elements of the music of the drums isrepetition. As a matter of fact, there's acertain amount of repetition in all music.In jazz, it's not so much bar repetition asrepetition of certain chord sequences inorder. A lot of people say I'm too repeti-tious, but that's the music of the drums—the music of our planet.

Everyone deals with repetition. It's abasic attribute of reality. Everything is pul-sating, and it pulsates in a certain repeti-tious way. If you get tired of repetition,you get bored with life. Life is based onrepetition. That's how you create things.

You keep thinking about things.Basically, in jazz, there are only two

beats, with variations. One rhythm is[plays swing beat] and you accent with thecymbals. You can play that in ¾ time,4/4 time, or 5/4 time, but basically, it's thesame thing. Then there's what I call freedrumming, where you play free, with allthis energy. It 's just another beat—another aspect of the music of the drums.

Certain rhythms can only last for twominutes. Others can last for three or fourdays. You have to know. I usually find outabout this when I'm at home, trying towrite music. In the music I played lastnight, there were actually two melodies. Inthe first part, when I was bowing the cym-bal, the written melody was in the harmon-ica. The next melody was da da da da dat.[sings melody] That went into the partwhere I played the blues on the balaphon. Iknew that cymbal part would last at least15 minutes. When I picked up the whistleand still bowed the cymbal, I knew thatwould only last five minutes. Now I'm

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Live at New York's Strand Theatre in 1945, McKinley fronts a band which included Lou Stein on piano, Mundell Lowe, guitar,and Peanuts Hucko on tenor sax. That's Paul Kashian handling the drum chair.

by Burt Korall

R AY McKinley, at 75, remains youngand involved with a variety ofthings. Not the least of these is

drumming. He reads voraciously and lis-tens to music. Occasionally, he watchesTV, plays golf, rests, and gets into shapewhenever there are a series of bookingscoming up.

"I work out for a few days at the drumsin order to become limber," he says. "Ijust take a few jobs nowadays . . . andonly for the best money." He plays placesas widely separated as Australia and Dis-

neyland in California, mostly with bigbands; the tours "Down Under" haveincluded several friends from the GlennMiller band.

Life is pleasant, and McKinley does hisbest to keep it that way. Having workedhard and been a major musical figure sincethe 1930s, he has earned the right to havethings to his specifications. Like most ofus, he enjoys moving from day to dayunencumbered by unnecessary pressure.Now is the time, he feels, to do everythingthat might have been missed or superfi-cially looked into during the years ofextraordinarily busy days and long nights.

McKinley mixes activity and work withquiet time in the ratio he most relishes.He's free in the best sense of the word.

Let's go back to where it all started: FortWorth, Texas. Born in that city, McKinleygrew up and found his way into musicthere.RM: My initial connection with music wasmade when I was three, four, and five yearsold. I had a little tin drum that I reallyenjoyed playing. After a while, a gentle-man across the street moved me up anotch. He owned an old army drum—oneof those deep parade drums. I liked fussingwith that even more, and I did pretty well. I

The 1946 McKinley orchestra at a recording session in New York City.

couldn't have been too old when my fatherstuck me in front of thousands of people atthe old Northside Coliseum in Fort Worth,where the Elks were having what theycalled an Elks Circus. I played a littlediddy-rum-dum, boom-boom-boom snaredrum solo.

I guess I just fell into drums. The instru-ment felt right to me. Playing was greatfun. The guy who really got me interestedwas Johnny Grimes—the pit drummer atthe local Majestic Theater. I used to sit inthe front row and just watch him. He hadall the paraphernalia that pit drummershad in those days.

I got my first set of drums—if you couldcall it that—when I was nine years old. Itincluded a snare drum, a bass drum with apedal, a cymbal, and a little Chinese tom-tom. Up to that time, I had been beating ona variety of things, like pots and pans, pieplates, old pieces of wood—anything thatsounded a bit like drums.

As soon as I had that set, my careerbegan. I was asked if I wanted to become amember of a little five-piece outfit calledThe Jolly Jazz Bandits. The group had afemale piano player; I remember that. Weplayed around town a good deal.

There were a lot of bands in the FortWorth area in the early 1920s—for exam-ple Swayne Cummings' Southern Serenad-ers and Frensley Moore's Black & GoldSerenaders. The others I can't rememberat the moment. Anyway, at one time oranother I played with them all.

It seemed that each band I played withwas larger than the previous one. I learneda little more with each experience. The last

guy I worked for before leaving FortWorth the first time was an Indian: ChiefGonzales. He had the band at the TexasHotel. I had a good reputation in myhometown. I wasn't that terrific, buteveryone thought I was.

That's the first chapter. I got my startplaying with all those local orchestras.Before I forget, there was one in Dallas aswell: Cline's Collegians—the best of all thebands I played with before going out in theworld.BK: How about training? Did you, an

instinctive and natural drummer who rec-ommends study to others, ever take les-sons?RM: I don't remember ever taking a drumlesson. I learned almost everything by justdoing and observing. If I heard someoneplay something I liked, I'd try to learn it,and then apply the technique or idea in themost musical way possible.

Hold on! There was a brief period ofstudy, way back there. I was 17 and work-ing with Beasley Smith's band, out ofNashville. We were engaged for the sum-mer at Lake Pawpaw, Michigan, which is60 or 70 miles from Chicago. I decided tostudy timps with Art Layfield in the WindyCity.

At the time [1927], Paul Ash, the con-ductor, was the big thing in Chicago withhis elaborate stage presentations. Art washis percussionist. He was a fine timpaniplayer and all-around drummer, who laterplayed snare drum with the New YorkPhilharmonic.

I guess I got the bug to play timps,because the more equipment drummershad and could play, the better were theirprospects—at least in those days. Vic Ber-on had just started doing his fancy stuff onthe pedal timpani on records with RedNichols. Art and a lot of other impressiveplayers had chimes, kettledrums, andevery bloody thing. It seemed the thing todo.

Every Thursday for a period of time, Imade the trip into town for a lesson. Ibought a pair of timps; the expense nearlybroke me. But the studying stood me ingood stead on a number of occasions withthe Glenn Miller Army Air Force Band andcertainly later with my own band.BK: Were you impressed with any localdrummers in and around Fort Worth?

A smiling Ray McKinley leading the revived Glenn Miller band on a date in Chicago in1963. McKinley headed the Miller orchestra from 1956-1966.

Ray McKinley in the spotlight with his orchestra on the movie set of Hit Parade Of 1943. Note the novel drum-style music stands.

RM: I don't remember anyone in particu-lar around town. But I do recall likingGeorge Marsh, who came to Fort Worthwith Paul Whiteman, and Dick Hamel, apretty good guy with the sticks in JimmyJoy's orchestra—the best bunch of musi-cians in my part of the country. Ray Rohel,who played in Dallas in 1925 with the DonBestor band at the Baker Hotel, had aninfluence on me as well.

Drummers were different in those days.They fiddled around on all the drums andequipment. They had woodblocks, templeblocks, gongs, snare, of course, bassdrum, and tom-toms galore, all over theplace. They did a bit of everything. Theyeven played on the rim and the shell of thebass drum. Many drummers were fond ofchoking the cymbal in climactic spots—hitting it with one hand and then "chok-ing" it with the other.

Supposedly, timekeeping was the drum-mer's basic function. But too many drum-mers were busy doing other things. Ratherthan providing a steady pulse and "inter-esting" background for the ensemble andsoloists, the typical player of the periodwas involved with "show" and using thewhole set. Things got better later when thefad and fashion were to concentrate on thesnare drum, bass drum, top cymbal, andhi-hat in a unified manner.BK: When did you leave Fort Worth forthe first time and with what band?RM: I left town with the Duncan-MarinBand in 1926. Duncan led the group;Marin was the booking agent. After ashort while, I left the band in El Paso tojoin Beasley Smith, a big name around

Nashville in those days. I stayed on withSmith until 1928, even after he joinedforces with Adrian McDowell—a hot fid-dle player a la Joe Venuti—to form theSmith-McDowell Orchestra.BK: What happened before you joinedMilt Shaw & the Detroiters at Roseland inNew York?RM: I went to Pittsburgh and played withthe Tracy-Brown band. Brown was a fiddleplayer; Tracy, a tuba player, was a goodbusinessman. There were some fine jazzplayers in the band, including clarinetistMatty Matlock and trumpeter Bruce Hud-son.

"IT'S ONE THING TOBEAT YOUR FINGERS ON

THE TABLETOP ANDYOUR FEET ON THEFLOOR, BUT QUITE

ANOTHER TOINTEGRATE

EVERYTHING AT

THE DRUMS."

McKinley's stay with Milt Shaw & theDetroiters at New York's Roseland wasimportant to his development. He cameinto the band in 1930. Bassist Bob Hag-gart, then a high school kid and new to themusic scene, remembers: "I used to hangout at Roseland on weekends, and I met

McKinley. I was just tickled by his playing.I really got an education listening to him.He gave me a good idea of what jazz musicwas all about. His approach to jazz per-formance was very individual and authen-tic. Because of this, his ideas generally fil-tered into the bands with which he played.

"As time went by, McKinley's drum-ming with the Milt Shaw band got betterand better. The Chick Webb band sharedthe Roseland bandstand with the Detroit-ers for an extended period; that certainlyhad something to do with it.

"McKinley learned to play the hi-hatfrom Chick. Like the 'little dynamo,' hemanipulated the 'hat' with his hands andsticks in a very provocative and swingingway; he played a bunch of variations onthe basic dotted-8th and 16th rhythm, andreally got the band moving. McKinley usedthe hi-hat as an instrument in itself. He andChick played the hell out of it. And the hi-hat was a relatively new thing back then."BK: What were the most memorable thingsthat happened to you during the early partof your career?RM: I had two of the biggest thrills of mydrumming career during the early years.The first one was getting to play withJimmy Joy. He had a marvelous jazzgroup out of the University of Texas—onetrumpet, a trombone, a couple of reeds,and a rhythm section. Don't make a mis-take about Joy, because he later had a suc-cessful semi-society band at the EdgewaterBeach Hotel in Chicago. The band I'mtalking about was so good that some sayBix Beiderbecke once offered to come and

"HELLO, Simon?" the soft Scotsvoice on the phone said. "This isTed McKenna." He had received

a letter from a publicity company in Amer-ica, in which a provisional date, time("your time"), and place were suggestedfor us to meet in London to do an inter-view, and he was calling to find outwhether I had received a similar one. Wewere amused by the efficiency with whichthe whole thing had been planned, and alsoby the fact that the suggested day hap-pened to suit us both. But the best laidplans . . . . It was I who had to postponethe meeting, because on that day my wifewent into labor, a few days early, with ourfirst child. When I called Ted to apologize,he said that he had been through the sameexperience a few months earlier. The guyon the other end of the line wasn't a rockstar being messed around by a music jour-nalist, but a friend who was sympatheticand interested.

Ted McKenna was one of the manyexcellent rock musicians who emergedfrom the Glasgow area of Scotland in thelate '60s and early '70s whose persever-ance—going down to London and sleepingfive or six to a room, joining a new band assoon as the "hard road" caused the pre-vious one to split—was eventuallyrewarded with richly deserved recognitionand success. His first band, The RareBreed, changed their name to Bubbles (forcommercial reasons) and broadcast onBritain's national Radio One Club. Afterthat, Ted joined the Dream Police withHamish Stewart, who was later to lead TheAverage White Band. It was in his nextband, Tear Gas, that Ted was eventuallyreunited musically with his cousin, key-board player, Hugh McKenna. Tear Gashad an album deal and seemed to havepotential, but the personal and financialstrains of having to be continually on themove, together with the frustrations ofhaving to play "pop" a lot of the timeinstead of their own material, were begin-ning to take their toll. The band was on theverge of splitting when it was taken over byAlex Harvey as his backing band andbecame The Sensational Alex HarveyBand. Alex, says Ted, pulled themtogether and gave them direction. Theywere four strong players who needed astrong leader. They found him in Alex.

Five years and nine successful albumslater, The Sensational Alex Harvey Band(SAHB) broke up, and in 1976 Ted Mc-Kenna teamed up with Irish guitar aceRory Gallagher. He can be heard onRory's albums Photo Finish, Top Priority,and Stage Struck. After leaving Rory, Tedplayed with Ali Thompson on his two

American chart singles: "Take A LittleRhythm" and "Live Every Minute"; healso played on Greg Lake's solo albumsGreg Lake and Manoeuvres with GaryMoore. Ted's last regular band, from 1981to 1984, was The Michael Shenker Group,with whom he recorded Assault Attack,Built To Destroy, and Rock Will NeverDie.

/ was aware of Ted's awesome reputa-tion as a rock drummer, but over a series ofJack Daniels and Cokes (for Ted), andpints of Shandy (for me) in a pub oppositethe offices of Bronze Records in London, Idiscovered that he is extremely knowledge-able about, and interested in, all aspects ofdrumming, and that he was able to givelots of fascinating insights into the busi-ness of being a professional rock drum-mer.SG: You were in the public eye recentlybecause of your work on Phenomena; per-haps you could start by talking about that.TM: I'd been doing some work with GaryMoore, and it was he who suggested that Imight be interested in working with GlennHughes. At the time, they were thinking ofgetting Trapeze together again. That wasthe band that Glenn was in before DeepPurple. I'd played opposite Trapeze manyyears before, when I was in Tear Gas, and Ithought that Glenn had a really greatvoice, so I was definitely interested. I wentalong to find out about that and met TomGalley [brother of Trapeze's Mel Galley—late of Whitesnake}. Tom said that he wasworking on another project in addition toTrapeze and asked if I would like to dosome playing for that as well. So, you see,it was a bit vague at first. We did a fewtracks. Some were for a new Trapezealbum and some were for Phenomena. Iwasn't sure which was which at the time.Then later, we did "Still The Night" at AirStudios in London, and that was definitelyfor Phenomena.

There was a slight misunderstandingactually, because Tom thought that every-body who was involved in making thealbum had received a copy, but that wasn'tthe case. So when they called from theStates to say that an interview had beenarranged for me with Modern Drummer, Isuddenly realized that I didn't know muchabout my latest recording project withTom. So I got hold of a copy and gavemyself a crash course. I had no idea that itwas such a big project, but Tom put anincredible amount of work into it. It's beenworked from the ground upwards—theconcept, the artwork. Tom and the recordcompany have really put a lot into it, andthat's great.SG: There is a strong supernatural theme

running through all the songs. Does thisaspect interest you at all?TM: No, not really. My involvement wasonly on a musical level, and when I did thetracks, I wasn't even aware of any themefor the album. The subject doesn't interestme, but the music is good—good to play,good to listen to—and that's what con-cerns me.SG: It interests me that, on two of thetracks, you and Glenn Hughes are playingdrums and bass, respectively, and on theothers, it is Cozy Powell and Neil Murray.Yet, there isn't a change of style involved.What is the point of using a differentrhythm section when the style of playingremains the same?TM: It was a case of availability. Cozy wasfirst asked to do the project and he did somuch of it, but his commitments took himelsewhere before it was completed. So itwas a case of my being able to play in thesame style as Cozy, so that the basic feel ofthe album would remain the same. A con-sistent style of drumming is important.SG: Could you define the style?TM: Well, for that type of music, you needsomeone who will nail it down and keep itsolid. It's straight ahead and powerful. Iplay different styles, but when I play rock,I play it like that, because I think that's theway rock should be played. So I don't messabout too much. I just hold it down. ButI'm fond of lots of different styles of play-ing. If anybody saw my album collection,they wouldn't believe it, because it'smainly jazz. I've played rock for about 20years, but I hardly have any rock records. Itook most of my rock influences from see-ing people firsthand—John Bonham, peo-

ple like that.SG: Your interest in jazz must have influ-enced your rock playing though?TM: When I started playing, my influencesquickly went from the attraction of themusic—The Beatles and so on—to theattraction of drumming. And I discovereddrumming more through listening to jazzthan to pop or rock, because that musicdoesn't show drumming off in its fulldimensions. Listening to rock records ishardly the way to study drumming. Cer-tain types of rock have technically interest-ing drumming, but over the years, I've got-ten more from jazz. The first album I hadwas Charlie Mingus' The Town Hall Con-cert with Dannie Richmond, and then I gotsome Buddy Rich records. I learned a lotfrom his playing.

The first rock influence I had was listen-ing to The Shadows. They had TonyMeehan on drums and later Brian Bennett.You remember that solo of Brian Ben-nett's, "Little B"? Well, I pulled that soloapart and analyzed it. I learned a lot aboutbasic technique from that, and then I gotinto more involved playing like that ofElvin Jones and Tony Williams. So I stud-ied technique for a long time, and when Iwas about 18 or 19, I saw myself as beingwell on the way to becoming a drum virtu-oso!

But as far as rock goes, Alex Harvey wasthe biggest influence when it came tomaturing my playing. He showed me theimportance of getting feel together, andthat that's so much more important thangetting your chops in. It comes down toplaying the right drums for the music.Technique is great. It gives you a good

vocabulary on drums, and it's good tohave it, but it doesn't make good musicunless you apply it in the right way. Alexused to turn around to me on stage some-times and do this. [He slaps his leg a coupleof times, slowly and deliberately.] I wouldbe doing it all and thinking that I was goinggreat, but he wanted to feel that snaredrum on 2 and 4, and he'd leave me in nodoubt as to what he wanted. That was avery important influence from a non-drummer.SG: A few moments ago, you said that lis-tening to rock records isn't a good way tostudy drumming, but don't you think thatthings have changed a bit since you startedin the'60s?TM: I don't want to put down rock playingin its finer forms. Some of the great rockplayers have been great stylists, with someof the greatest being the great simple play-ers. Recently, I've been doing some clin-ics—"Rock Workshops" for the Musi-cians' Union—and that's been quiterevealing, because it has made me thinkabout what's in the minds of young peoplewhen they start thinking about learning theinstrument. Generally, I think that they'reattracted by the music first of all, andtherefore they don't approach drummingas an art. They approach it as somethingthat they feel drawn to within a style ofmusic that they like. Lots of people neverbother to develop the vocabulary ondrums, and yet they can be very good atplaying the music and making it soundexactly right. But ask them to play some-thing else and they can't do it, because theydon't think that way. So what I'm saying isthat, if you want to develop a comprehen-

sive style of drumming that covers differ-ent areas of technique and you only listento rock records, you won't hear that vari-ety of technique. You hear a certain type oftechnique only. Some rock drummers aremore technically oriented than others, butgenerally, rock's about power, laying onthat four in the bar, and just going for it.

It's good to be able to come from bothdirections. I think that I am fortunate,because I became interested in techniqueearly on and then I learned about playingthe music. But there are rock players whonever listen to anything else, so they don'tdevelop. I enjoy listening to and playing alltypes of music, but there is a discipline inrock drumming. Good rock drummers willplay it straight but then be able to pullsomething out of the bag when they needto, because they also have the technique,but they will never overplay and break thefeel of the music. It's down to the individ-ual. Drummers who are interested in devel-oping their drumming skills, as opposed todeveloping their careers as drummers inrock bands, are going to listen to a varietyof styles and extend themselves a bit. Thereis always the danger that you can get toomany things going and you don't really set-tle in one field. So regardless of what you,hopefully, have up your sleeve in terms oftechnique, if you want to be a rock drum-mer, you can't afford to mess around.Cozy Powell is a good example of someonewho's got a good technique, but knowswhat he's doing, limits himself, is verydirectional in his playing, and only doeswhat's required for the style of the music.He doesn't overplay to try to prove to peo-ple how great he is.SG: He has said in this magazine that heisn't interested in drumming theory.TM: He is regarded as a good, solid drum-mer, but he's got more in reserve than peo-ple think; he can come out with someamazing stuff.SG: Coming back to your own technique,did you have a background in pipe bands?TM: Funny you should mention that. Iwould have loved to have been in a pipeband and to have learned that discipline. Itis very difficult music to play, because itrequires such perfection and stick control.I was never in a pipe band, but strangelyenough, when I practice rudiments, Isound like a pipe band drummer. It's verystrange. It's something instinctive. Per-haps it's got something to do with beingCeltic!SG: How did you learn rudiments?TM: Basically, I discovered a lot of it formyself. I would practice for hours andhours. I used some books and did enoughreading to find out what to practice, but Inever developed that properly. All the timeI've been playing professionally, I'venever needed to read. I would often go intoBradley's music shop in Glasgow on Satur-days. I'd listen to some jazz in the baropposite at lunchtime and watch the drum-

mer. Then, I'd go over to the shop andhang around—maybe practicing on apad—and wait for the drummers to comein to buy things. I'd see them trying thingsout in the shop, and I'd go over and askthem to show me what they were doing.SG: Have you always used matched grip?TM: No. I learned all my rudiments withthe orthodox grip, but when I started play-

ing rock on gigs, I used a matched gripbecause it was easier for getting a bit ofpower in the left hand. Then, I realizedthat there wasn't much point in holding thesticks one way when you practice andanother when you play. So I started torelearn all the things I had done with anorthodox grip using the matched grip, andit wasn't as easy, because playing rock foryears decreases your control with the lefthand. You need to hold the stick fairlyfirmly to get the stick control to play rudi-ments or intricate things, but if you areplaying a hard, loud off beat, you can'thold it too firmly. If you do, first of all, yousend a vibration up your arm. Then youcan either break the drumhead or break thestick. But if you just let the stick fall, hold-ing it firmly enough just to keep controlover it but not much more, you can playmuch louder. The only disadvantage isthat, if you play like this for some time,you create an imbalance. You are playingsome fast, controlled patterns with yourright hand, so the fingers of that handretain that fine sensitivity, but if the left

hand is always holding the stick loosely,you lose that degree of control. That's onedisadvantage I've found in playing rockmusic: It destroys a lot of the techniqueI've learned. I'm not worried about it.[laughs] You can just practice and bring itback!SG: Do you advise young would-be rockdrummers to learn rudiments when you do

clinics?TM: I find that this is a problem area withyoung players. As I said before, most ofthem are drawn to drumming because theyare keen on the music. But then they getdrum lessons from a person who's tryingto teach them rudiments, and they find itvery hard to align what they are doing intheir lessons with the music that got theminterested in drumming in the first place.They say, "Okay, so I sit for hours practic-ing a paradiddle, but I can't find any musicto use it in!" I point out that, if you see theold film of Buddy Holly doing "PeggySue," you'll notice that Jerry Allison, thedrummer, is smiling all the way through.The reason that he's smiling is that, at last,he has found a tune that he can play a para-diddle in all the way through!

You see, at first they are learning tech-nique without necessarily being able toapply it to music, and it gets very boringfor the young people who want to playrock, and to sound like John Bonham orwhoever. They want to be able to run

"THE HUMAN ELEMENT IS BEING PHASED OUTBECAUSE IT ISN'T IN VOGUE AT THE MOMENT."

DAVID GARIBALDI

Drumset: Yamaha Recording Series in garnet-red finish.Cymbals: Paiste.

A. 6 1/2 x 14 metal or 7 x 14wood snareB. 8 x 8 tomC. 8 x 10 tomD. 10 x 14 tomE. 16 x 16 floor tomF. 14 x 22 bass druma. Latin Percussion Cha Chacowbell attached to floor tom

1. 14" Rude hi-hats2. 18" 2002 crash3. 18" Sound Creation shortcrash4. 20" Sound Creation brightride5. 20" broken cym. on top of18" broken cym. — "trashcymbal"

Hardware: Yamaha 900 Series, including 900 Series bassdrum pedal with wood beater; Yamaha 700 Series hi-hat stand.Heads: Remo coated Ambassador on snare batter; Remo clearEmperors on tops of toms, clear Ambassadors on bottoms;Remo Pinstripe on batter side of bass drum, coated Ambassadoron front with 14" hole; small pillow in bass drum slightlytouching both heads; leather patch on batter side where impactoccurs.Sticks: Vic Firth SD9 Drivers with wood tips.

BUTCH MILES

Drumset: Ludwig six-ply wood shells in white marine-pearlfinish.Cymbals: Zildjian.

A. 5 x 14 snareB 8 x 12 tomC. 14 x 14 floor tomD. 14 x 20 bass drum

1. 13" New Beat hi-hats2. 20" K ride3. 20" medium-heavy Ping ride4. 18" A thin crash5. 20" medium swish

Hardware: All Ludwig Modular stands and mounts; LudwigSpeed King bass drum pedal.Heads: Coated Ludwig Ensemble (medium) on snare batter;coated Ludwig Ensemble (thin) on all tom heads; Ludwig SilverDot on bass drum batter; coated Ensemble (medium) on front.All drums tuned wide open with no muffling.Sticks: Vic Firth American Classic 5A with wood tips.

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Style & Analysis:

Alan White

by Michael Bettine

Alan White has been the percussive force behind Yes since 1972. His intelligent, musical, and powerful approach to rock drumming helpedmake Yes one of the top bands of the '70s. With the band's triumphant return in 1984, Alan has become a drummer for the '80s.

The following examples are all taken from 90125, Yes's long-awaited return album. Alan's playing on 90125 is brilliant, and it helped tosecure a new generation of loyal followers for himself and the band. The examples selected reveal Alan's tasteful and well-executed playingstyle.

The first example is taken from the introductory section of "Changes." Picking up right after the drums enter, we find the band playinga tight, alternating 7/8, 10/8 pattern. This pattern sounds complex, yet it is simple to understand when written out. After the break anddrum fill, the band reenters at measure 17 with the acoustic guitar playing in 4/4 over the odd-meter pattern. The effect is quite polyrhyth-mic. At measure 25, the band dramatically joins the guitar in 4/4.

Example 2 is from "Our Song." Starting four bars before the first verse, the band plays an alternating 7/4, 9/4 pattern. The feel is kepteven by Alan playing the odd-bar grouping as a 16/4 phrase, with a heavy backbeat effect on the snare drum. This is a good example oftaking an odd meter and making it feel even.

Example 3 is the verse and chorus pattern from the tune "Cinema." Here, Alan plays a march-like feel over the odd-bar grouping. Hebreaks up the 16th-note roll on the snare drum with a hi-hat note on the "e" of the pattern.

Cliff

Pho

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ay L

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With Charlie Barnet's band at New York'sParamount Theater. The Chinese cymbalwas a Leeman trademark for many years.

It's been said about Cliff Leeman's rock-steady timekeeping that a bandleader hadbetter be sure he kicks the band off at theright tempo, because right or wrong, Cliffwill be certain to carry it through to thefinish. But there's a lot more to Cliff's mas-tery of the time than the ability to hold itsteady. A metronome can do that, and ifthat was all there was to it, who'd need adrummer? The added ingredient is thatundefinable something called "artistry"—that inherent instinct that takes a purelymechanical function and adds somethingto it as highly individual as a personal sig-nature. In Cliff Leeman's case, thisamounts to such a personal approach that,once you've heard him, he's readily recog-nizable thereafter.

There are numerous factors that evolveinto such an original concept, and they'recommon to the mastery of any musicalinstrument. But beyond the acceptedbasics of talent and technique (refinedthrough years of experience and modifiedby the assimilation of ideas from otherdrummers), there is the ability to judgetime on a split-second basis. When theseare coupled with excellent musical taste,you have an artist named Cliff Leeman.

Listening, as Cliff sees it, is also one ofthe most important ingredients. "I neverwant to get in the way of soloists," saysCliff. "The trick is to listen carefully towhat they're doing and try to back themup." It's probably one of the most consis-tent items in the Leeman makeup, second

only to his uncanny knack for keepinggood time. And yet, Cliff is the first toadmit that his playing has changed andevolved over the years, not only as a resultof experience and maturity, but also as aresult of keeping pace with musical trends.

Born in Portland, Maine in 1913, Cliffwent on to become a mainstay in the bigbands of Artie Shaw, Tommy and JimmyDorsey, Charlie Barnet, and Woody Her-man, among others. Cliff can be heard oncountless recordings driving the ensemblesand backing the soloists, and still fondlyrecalls the sensation he created by using aChinese cymbal with rivets for a totallynew tonal shading.

"I was with Cozy Cole one day, and wedropped by Bill Mather's drum shop inManhattan. Bill had the biggest cymbal I'dever seen: a 25" Chinese cymbal. It wasback in the Artie Shaw days, and I decidedI had to have that cymbal. Then we didthat record date that produced Artie's'Begin The Beguine' and 'Back Bay Shuf-fle.' I started 'Back Bay Shuffle' off with alittle thing on that cymbal that I developedfrom listening to Chick Webb. I playedthat big cymbal all through the big bandyears, and it became something of a trade-mark of mine. I used it with Shaw, TommyDorsey, and Charlie Barnet. When I waswith Woody's band, I worked with BenWebster, and later when Ben had his owngroup, his drummer came running up tome and said, 'Gee, what kind of cymbal isthat that Ben keeps talking about?' "

Soloists liked Cliff's Chinese cymbal somuch that they began buying them on theirown and lending them to their drummers.Dizzy Gillespie insisted that his drummerhave one. Kenny Davern bought a coupleto carry around with him from job to job.Eventually, Cliff replaced the Chinesecymbal with a large sizzle cymbal, which

was more adaptable to small-band workand his present style. But the Chinese cym-bal was an integral part of his setup formany years. Then Cliff discovered a newdimension.

"I fell in love with small bands while Iwas playing with John Kirby. I realizedthat I was sick to death of moving big brasssections and killing myself. You could playwith driving force with a small group, butyou could still play subtly, and sit back andrelax." As a result, Cliff later gravitated toEddie Condon's band, which he refers toas "one of the greatest bands in its cate-gory that I ever worked with. They had aninspiring way of playing, because theyworked together for so long. We had agreat rhythm section. Bob Casey was ourfirst bassist, and when he left, I recom-mended my old friend Walter Page. Youknow, I'm not particularly fond of guitars,banjos, or anything else that gets in theway. I love a rhythm section with piano,bass, and drums. But Eddie Condon wasan unsung hero. He had wonderful chordsense, and because he played unamplifiedguitar, it never got in the way. It was a joyto work with him."

Cliff also doesn't hesitate to acknowl-edge his influences through the years. Herates Jo Jones, who he first heard withCount Basie in Kansas City, as his mostimportant influence, but also includes BigSid Catlett and Zutty Singleton among thetop three.

"Sid Catlett was a prince among fel-lows, but a king on the drummer's throne.Sidney is considered by many drummers,historians, and critics as the greatest drum-mer of them all. I'll not dispute that,because he was certainly very close to beingthat, but I always have reservations aboutcalling anybody the greatest anything. Theonly possible exception to this is Buddy,because I consider him to be the greatestdrum soloist of all time. I don't believehe'll ever be topped. He's one of a kind.

"I first met Big Sid when he was withLouis Armstrong's big band. Sid was ahuge man, well over six feet tall, with longarms and extremely large hands. When hesat down at the drums, the sticks lookedlike toothpicks in his hands, and youexpected to hear a thunderous roar eruptfrom the drums. Instead, a fluid flow ofassorted sounds would emanate. His timewas impeccable and his execution wasflawless, but his taste predominated overall. He had excellent training, and heplayed a swinging, awe-inspiring show. Sidloved to play behind tap dancers. Some of

At the Hotel Pennsylvania withTommy Dorsey in 1939.

by Warren W. Vache, Sr.

Leemanthis rubbed off on me, thank goodness,because with Charlie Barnet's band, I wascalled upon to play shows at Harlem'sApollo Theater, The Howard Theater inWashington, and many other theaters withblack and white reviews.

"I was very close with Zutty Singletonfrom 1936 until he died. There's an oldArtie Shaw record called 'The Blues A'and 'The Blues B,' a double-sided Voca-lion [Artie Shaw And His New Music, VO4401] on which you can hear Zutty's influ-ences in my playing. In addition, you canhear me using that 25" Chinese cymbal.

"Over the years I've heard the greatdrummers, like Baby Dodds, who had apulsating 4/4 beat in the traditional NewOrleans style. I had the chance to studyBaby when he played at The Three Deucesin Chicago. Baby could play a roll on thesnare drum that was so smooth that it wasreferred to as 'smooth as silk and satin.'He played with the open tone of the tunedbass drum and no padding, and heemployed all kinds of little tricks in hissolos, like using the butt end of the stickson the bass drum to simulate an extra tom-tom sound.

"And then there was Davy Tough,"states Cliff, "all 110 pounds of him—agreat, subtle swinger, but equally as pow-erful. George Wettling was another Chi-cago drummer who had superb taste andwas a very exciting soloist. His solosalways had a great deal of humor, as wellas technique. Ray McKinley is anothergreat drummer. I first heard him on radiowith the Dorsey Brothers around 1932 or'33. I loved the sound of his drums, and hisintense but loosely swinging beat and goodtaste behind soloists. Also, listening toChick Webb helped to mold some of myideas. He tuned his drums with undam-

pened heads and a high snare sound. Iadapted to tuning my drums along thoselines and still adhere to those soundstoday. I also must mention my dear friendGene Krupa, a true legend. The hugegrowth in the sales of drum equipment wasan outgrowth of Gene's association withBenny Goodman. There's no doubt thatall drummers were influenced by Gene insome way."

Although Cliff readily acknowledges hisinfluences, there is never any doubt that heis an individualist with his own ideas. "Itry to play behind the soloist, and that'swhy I'm not known as a forceful soloist. Iwould rather play a four-bar chase chorusback and forth with a horn—somethingwith different tones and sounds—than getinto a rudimental solo."

The Leeman individualism also surfacesin Cliffs equipment. "I use a 23" mediumride cymbal, a 22" sizzle, and an 8" splashcymbal for special effects. I also use a 20"swish on occasion, which has a great soundas a ride cymbal. I have to put chains on itwhen Jake Hanna is around.

"I'd estimate that I have over $50,000invested in cymbals of various sizes. I'vealways used nothing but Zildjian cymbals,and the company has gone out of its way tosatisfy me. My drums were made to myspecifications by Slingerland, including asolid oak 4" piccolo snare. It has a sharp,light pitch. I have another snare that wascustom built and presented to me as a giftfrom a friend in England. It has a mahog-any shell that 'floats'; there's no hardwaretouching the shell. I also have a 5" steelsnare drum by Slingerland."

Cliff relies heavily on his cymbals toachieve the effortless swing that is a pri-mary characteristic of his playing. This,coupled with his fantastic sense of time,

has earned him an enviable reputation withjazz buffs and big band enthusiasts. ButCliffs career has not been confined to jazzor big band experience, although jazzmusicians have always sought him out.When Milt Gabler signed Bill Haley & TheComets to record for Decca—shrewdlyestimating them as potential money-makers—he was annoyed to discover thatthe drummer could not keep time. So hecalled Cliff to do the date. Thus, Cliff is onthe recording of "Rock Around TheClock," the sound that is generally consid-ered to have kicked off the rock era.

It's a tribute to Cliffs versatility that hecould perform on Haley's and countlessother pop and commercial records, whileat the same time waxing classic recordingswith the Eddie Condon groups and theLawson-Haggart band (which eventuallybecame The World's Greatest Jazz Band).Cliff was also a mainstay on the PerryComo, Jack Benny, Jimmy Durante, andSteve Allen television shows, along withYour Hit Parade and The Bell TelephoneHour. Needless to say, the recordings hemade with Artie Shaw, Tommy Dorsey,Charlie Barnet, Raymond Scott, and oth-ers remain classics of the American musi-cal heritage.

Cliff also offers some sage words ofadvice for young drummers. "It took meyears to learn this, but I've found it to betrue beyond any question: You don't needany kind of stimulants to play well. I canget very high on black coffee. I used tothink I got warmed up by drinking. Butnow my warm-up period consists of exer-cises to warm up my hands. I have wristexercises to get the blood circulating, and Ido calisthenics to warm up my feet. I havea set of exercises I'd be happy to show any-body who's interested. All those marvel-ous athletes in the Olympics warmed up onthe sidelines beforehand. It didn't matterwhat they had to do. If they were going tojump hurdles, they warmed up; if theywere going to swim, they warmed up. Nomatter what you do that's athletic, youhave to warm up. And that's what Ido. Nothing else is required."

Cliff Leeman, still at it today.

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have to be in the right place at the righttime. That's right, but you've got to beready. If I hadn't been ready, I would havefallen on my ass. Twenty-five minutes atthat tempo wasn't easy, but I didn't runout of gas. After playing with Jack Teagar-den for two nights, my first big band jobcame up with Randy Brooks, a well-knowntrumpet player of that era. I did some workwith his band, and I would have gone onthe road, but my hair was pretty long andhe said I had to get a haircut or I would befired. So I said, "Did you hire me for myplaying or my hair?" And he said, "Every-one has short hair in my band," so he firedme. It was good in a way because I got ajob with a band I think was a little better,and I proceeded from there.

I think that, if I'm known for anything,it 's versatility. Sidney Catlett said to me,"Eddie, you want to make sure you learnhow to read well, because when you don'thave club gigs like this, you can go intosome of the theaters and play for the dancelines." Since Sidney had this infectiousrhythm, dance lines loved him. I was learn-ing how to read anyway, but he empha-sized it to me, so I was starting to become afanatic and literally tried to get every bookI could. That is why I was able to go outwith a road band at 17. I could literallysight read almost anything that came up.RF: You certainly couldn't have gotten theTonight Show gig without being able toread.ES: No. Even the thought is funny. Somedrummers still say to me, "I've got a goodear," and I say right back, "I've got agood ear, too." I don't care how goodyour ear is. You've got a chart with stopand go, or it goes from 4/4 to 3/4 andthere's a bar of 5/8 in letter B. If you don't

do that right, man, you've screwed a wholeband up. In music where reading is neces-sary, reading is necessary. In situationswhere it's not, it's not. I love to play jazzwhere I never have to look at a piece ofmusic. I think that's wonderful, and I playa lot of avant-garde music, which is veryfar out. It is jazz but more outside. I loveit, but you can't enter into a situationwhere reading is demanded and expect tofudge by. What would you say to a leadtrumpet player who couldn't read? "Bye,bye." Count Basie said that the lead trum-pet and the drums are the key chairs in bigband playing. He said, "When they'reright, I can build a band around them."The drummer should read as well as thelead trumpet. On top of that, how thedrummer plays the figures indicates how itwill feel to everybody.RF: So how did you get the Tonight Showgig?ES: A young man visiting from out oftown the other day asked me, "Did you getyour job with the Tonight Show through areferral service?" It was naive, but it wascute, because where he comes from, that'show a lot of the work is gotten. I explainedit to him this way: When a job has a specificgroup of demands—whether it be in a sym-phony orchestra, the Tonight Showorchestra, or a rock or jazz combo—theyusually know the person they want, or theyknow they would like to have one of two orthree people they know will do that jobwell. On the Tonight Show, when theyneeded a drummer—forget about EdShaughnessy or anybody—they needed adrummer (A) who could play all styles welland convincingly, (B) who is an excellentsight reader and wouldn't waste time, and(C) like on all jobs, who has a good atti-tude, so if you get a stupid act who is say-ing stupid things, you restrain from tellingthem to stick it in their ear. At times, somepeople have to be told and Doc's been niceenough to let me do it, but that's maybehappened two or three times in 20 years.Let's say that an attitude of cooperation isgenerally important. Therefore, in NewYork City at that time, they probably hadthe choice of a couple of drummers, at themost. They happened to call me, which ishow those types of jobs are gotten,whether they be in California or NewYork. I had already had ten years in NewYork of all kinds of recording, and I hadalready made a couple of hundred albums.Those were the days when doing ten recorddates a week was not unknown. I wasdoing, in a way, what Steve Gadd is doingin New York now: playing a lot of differentkinds of music, but basically known prettymuch as a creative drummer, which is whatI think of Gadd as. I very much admirethat flexibility factor he has. He bringshimself and his identity into many situa-tions and always makes a good, valid con-tribution—shades of Sidney Catlett in a1980s player.

I turned the Tonight Show down at first.I had been hired at CBS some years beforeto play in a jazz combo with a wonderfulman, Garry Moore, who had a five-day-a-week TV show. He's probably one of thenicest human beings I've met in my life. Itwas nirvana, because it was a jazz groupand studio work. Some people have a verynarrow conception of what studio work is.It was a little five-piece jazz combo, andsure, we played for a singer every day, butwe also played jazz tunes because Garrywas a jazz aficionado and he loved to playDixieland drums. I had that job for fouryears. When the show stopped, I stayed atCBS for a year and started doing typical

studio work, which is boring and static.There was not much creativity, so I quit. Iwas making very big bucks, but I was nothappy. Many people thought I was crazy,because I was the youngest person everhired on staff at CBS. I proceeded to go outand get in a co-op jazz group, The JazzFour, with a wonderful vibist namedTeddy Charles, Mal Waldron, a very finepianist, and the late Addison Farmer onbass. Our inspiration was the Modern JazzQuartet, with the idea of everyone sharingthe duties. I did the P.R., Teddy took careof the money, and Mal helped with thetraveling, etc. We were not commerciallysuccessful, but we were musically success-

ful. We had a great time doing that, and Iwas very happy because I was doing muchmore of what I wanted to do.

The reason I went into studio work earlyis that my folks divorced right after I was14, after I got the drums from my dad.They split and I never saw my dad again.Tommy Dorsey offered me a three-yearcontract, because I took Buddy Rich'splace when I was 21. He said to me, "I didit for Buddy Rich, I did it for Louie Bel-lson, and I can do it for you." I'm glad tosay that he said, "You've got the goods,kid." I turned down his offer, though. Iknow people think you should go wherethis business takes you, and I guess to adegree you should, but my ambition was totry to have a stable family life. I never hadit as a kid. First, I needed it for myself andthe other thing I said to myself was that,since I didn't have a dad from a prettyyoung age, I would be around for any kidsI had. Contrary to what many peoplethink, it wasn't money that made me dostudio work at a young age. It was the factthat I could still play creative music and behome. The jazz jobs then, as now, weren'talways there, and when you worked inBirdland, it was $90.00 a week. But peoplehave attitudes about the studio life. I readthe recent article on Steve Gadd where hesaid that many people think he just sits instudios, but he's always been a 50/50player. That's what I've always been.Shelly Manne was a great 50/50 player.Shelly did as much studio work as anydrummer on the West Coast in the last 30years, and God bless him, I never heard itsaid that working in the studios hurt hiscreativity. In fact, in my opinion, ShellyManne, when he died at 64, was playingbetter than he had ever played in his life.But Shelly never allowed his studio work tointerfere with his creativity. He owned ajazz club, he was a valid, prime jazz player,he stayed current sounding, without adoubt, and he could play with anybodyand make it sound good. The same goesfor Gadd and the same goes for me, if Imay put myself in some good company.But I worked at it. We all worked at it.Maybe we're the exception to the rule. I'veknown a lot of musicians who have gotteninto a static groove and who have gone intothe studios where it's comfortable andeasy, but they're not people who are hun-gry to play. You have to still want to gointo leading Hollywood jazz clubs andplay for scale—$37.50 a night. Out-of-town musicians always say, "Gee, wealways make $75 in the club we play onweekends." They can't believe that they're

in a well-known club and scale is that.Sure, some people get more money, butpeople who really want to play have to beready to play for $37.50, like I used to haveto be prepared to play Birdland in the '50sfor $19.00. But if you can have a base ofsome other work and then do that, it'sgreat. Lots of musicians do it. Let me justrun some names down of eminent, validjazz players who work in the Tonight Showband: Ernie Watts, Pete Christlieb ontenor, Conte Candoli on trumpet, SnookyYoung on trumpet, Ross Tompkins onpiano, and Joe DiBartolo our bassist, whois very active with the Ernie Watts Quartetand other progressive groups. Players likethat, who I would call creative players firstand studio players second, keep pursuingthe creative thing. The difference is thatwe're able to stay in one place more.RF: So you turned the Tonight Show gigdown originally?ES: I made a promise to myself that Iwould never take a steady studio job againafter the CBS thing. I didn't turn it down. Ijust said, "I don't know if I'll want tostay." They asked if I'd do it for two weeksand I said sure. When I got up there andDoc Severinsen was the lead trumpetplayer, Clark Terry sat next to me in thejazz trumpet chair, and there were all thesegreat players. I said, "My God, this is notyour ordinary studio situation." Plus,there were Johnny Carson, the biggest jazzfan in the world, who creates a nice climateand a nice feeling, and Skitch Henderson,the leader at the time, who hired me. Whenthe two weeks were over and they asked if Iwanted to stay, I said I sure would.RF: Watching Carson listen to the musicduring the commercial breaks yesterdaywas a treat. He was drumming along on thedesk and having a great time.ES: He's very into the music. He's a gooddrummer for an amateur player. He saysthat sometimes at home he'll put on hisearphones, a good big band record, andplay his drums. He says it's the greatesttherapy in the world. He has a great lovefor it, and he appreciates the music. He'sbeen very good to us. He'll plug our out-of-town appearances, if we're doing a jazzfestival, and he's kind enough to mentionthings like that. A couple of times a year,due to the generosity of Doc as leader andTommy Newsom, our permanent substi-tute conductor, I get a chance to play adrum-feature number, and it's wonderful.RF: You've been with the show for 22years!ES: And it's actually been enjoyable theentire time, so you know why I considermyself such a fortunate person. I feel, in asense, that I'm playing with one of thereally great big bands, only I haven't hadto get on the bus to do it. Some people lovethe road. My friend Buddy Rich seems tothrive on the road, God bless him. I didsome years with the bus, but I found outthat wasn't the life I liked on a steady

basis—especially when my sons were born.We lost our 18 year old a little while back,but we had a wonderful 18 years with twoboys, and I have a great guy at home nowwho just turned 17. That home situationhas just been everything to me. I turneddown a lot of things that were musicallyinteresting, because they would have takenme away from home too much. I couldhave taken a leave of absense from theTonight Show. Doc has always been verygenerous about that. Sure, he wants you topay attention to your job, but when thingshave come up that I've really wanted to do,he's let me bail out.RF: How much time do you get off a year?ES: Officially, we don't get too much time

off. We get a week or two in the summerand we get a week off during the holidays,which is very nice around Christmastime.Generally, though, we're working all thetime. It's darn near a 50-week-a-year job.RF: How did you feel about the move toL.A. in '72?ES: I liked the idea at the time because NewYork, which I'll always love, was startingto change and become pretty rough, com-pared to my earlier years there. I had a stu-dio above Henry Adler's drum store on46th Street, along with Joe Cusatis andSonny Igoe, but studios were getting bro-ken into. I worried about my kids with thepeople hanging around the streets, and Iwas becoming a little turned off. The show

had been in New York for nine yearsbefore it moved, and when the opportunitycame, I told Doc I would like to go. Aboutfour of us came out with Doc, and the restare California-based musicians. I felt itwas a good time for a change, and I wel-comed the opportunity, so I came out in'72 with my wife, two boys, Great Dane,and everything else, and it turned out verywell.

A few years went by and there weren't awhole lot of creative situations for me toplay in, mostly because I was new in town.I found that the creative opportunitieswere limited, because there were a lot ofgreat players out here. So I thought,"Maybe it's time to start a band." Ithought it would be a good chance to playcreative music and control the happeningof it. So around 1976, after I had been herefor about four years, I started the bigband. With the show, I don't get a lot ofchances to work with them, but therearen't that many places to play, anyway.It's really just a labor of love and a chanceto play some really good creative musicfrom some of the writers we have.RF: Is this still a 17-piece band?ES: It's 15. We play without piano, which Ithink gives the band a slight identity. Wehave a very versatile guitarist by the nameof Peter Woodford, who is also one of theguitarists on the Tonight Show. I startedwith a full rhythm section, plus percus-sion, but I found it very hard to get the

right players on both keyboards and in thepercussion chair, so we pared it down a lit-tle. Lately, I've also started up a quintetwith two horns, and recently we did ourfirst official gig in Aspen, Colorado. Thetrouble with the big band is that, finan-cially, it's not very equitable to move. Airfares these days will kill you.RF: So your schedule with the TonightShow is that you tape the show Tuesdaythrough Friday. You get there at 3:00 inthe afternoon, and you start rehearsal at3:30 for about an hour. How much of theshow's material do you actually rehearse?ES: We rehearse any new acts and newmusic that will be on the show.RF: How much of it is new music?ES: Sometimes we'll have two performerswith new arrangements and some of theband music is new. When you were in theaudience, we did a new arrangement of"Chicago," so we rehearsed it twice andthe next time, it was on tape. That's wherethe reading comes in. You not only have tobe good, but you also have to be fast. Youcan't be good and slow. The pace is incred-ibly fast up there.RF: Who are some of the acts you'veenjoyed working with? You mentionedhaving enjoyed B.B. King.ES: B.B. always swings like hell and evenrehearses with a lot of soul. He doesn'tknow how to do it any other way, exceptreal good, so just rehearsing a tune withB.B. is a real thril l . Tony Bennett and

Sarah Vaughn are like that. Some artistsbring their own rhythm sections and somedon't. B.B. likes to play with this band asis. Clark Terry is a great treat because hewas a member of the band for ten years,and whenever he's in town, he comes by.Recently, we had a great time with JohnMcLaughlin, the great guitarist. He wrotean arrangement for the Tonight Showband on "Cherokee"—deja vu. There area lot of others who I'm neglecting to men-tion. We have some straight top-40 popacts, too, which is why I do a lot of what Icall "defensive listening." That's not sit-ting in the arm chair at home and groovingon what I want. I listen to top-40 a lot, andif I hear something I don't think I canimmediately do, I'll sit down and try to doit. If it takes a half an hour, I stay there,and I'm not too proud to say it. I thinksome younger players get the idea that youdon't have to keep working at it—thateverything just comes easily—but thingschange. During the '60s, when rock 'n' rolldrumming broke out of the more basicthing that started back in the '50s and westarted to get into the more complexrhythms as personified by Bernard Purdie,the great Motown drummers, and HalBlaine, you started to hear different kindsof patterns. And they weren't the kind ofpatterns that you would sit down and nec-essarily play right off. They had the samesophistication and subtlety that good jazzdrumming would have. You had that niceinfluence of what I would call a more crea-tive approach to the rhythm section. Mystudents used to laugh, because they'dcome up for a lesson and I'd be sittinginside this little studio with my earphoneson, working out the more sophisticatedpatterns with the record. This is what youhave to do if you want to stay current.Let's not kid ourselves. When you're pastabout 30 or 35, there's new music comingout. I don't care what era you were bornin, there's new music coming in. Someswing drummers couldn't adjust to bebop.Some drummers who played good progres-sive or bebop style ignored, or couldn't getinto, rock playing. So every year I try to dosomething I couldn't do last year.RF: What will that be in 1986?ES: I'm going to work on trying to apply alot of the Indian drumming I've studied tomy drumming. I studied tabla drums forquite a long time with Alla Rakha. I mighttry to take some lessons with Hari Hareo,who is a great scholar and Indian percus-sionist and who is teaching at one of ourcolleges out here. I feel like I've onlyscratched the surface. Indian drumming isvery deep, very complex, and very reward-

ing. It can give you a lot of great ideas forrhythm on the drumset. You don't have toplay the tabla to play Indian rhythms. I'vebeen doing this at my clinics for manyyears, and I hope I've opened a lot ofyoungsters' heads up.RF: I'd like to touch a little on equipment.When did you start using double bass?ES: I possibly was the second person toplay two bass drums, since I was verythrilled by seeing and hearing Louie Bell-son play with Tommy Dorsey's band. Iwas very young and very impressionable. Ihad not yet heard Buddy Rich play, by theway, which might be interesting, becausenext to my original idol Sidney Catlett, hemight be the most dominant influence inmy playing. I don't think I play like him,but he's shown me how to play. From sit-ting, watching, and studying him so manytimes, I've learned more than you couldever put in a thousand books. He's theworld's greatest, gifted natural drummer,I would say without reservation.

But back to your question, Louie wasprobably the first big band drummer Iheard who was a stretch-out drum soloist,and who not only played wonderfully withthe band, but played wonderful solos, too.I was inspired. Most of all, I met Louie,and he was friendly and he encouraged me.We started to practice together a little bit. Isat down at his drums and I guess I didn'tdo too badly, so he encouraged me about

the two bass drums. He gave me an extrabass drum pedal, which I could not haveafforded. These are the important things tomention. Buddy Rich once gave me dozensof drumsticks. I was broke and working on52nd Street. I had one pair of sticks, brokeone, and didn't know what to do. So Iasked Buddy for a pair, and he had theband boy give me dozens of sticks. Hedoesn't remember this, and he swears itnever happened because it might ruin hisimage, he thinks, as a curmudgeon. It hap-pened. Why would I make it up? So Louiewas nice enough to give me a second bassdrum pedal, and I bought a second bassdrum. Since the one I could afford wasn'tthe same size as my other bass drum, Istarted playing a larger and smaller bassdrum, which has become one of my trade-marks. It worked out well for me, becauseI used to play a lot of odd-tempo solos, like3/4 and 5/4, so I used the small bass drummore as the hi-hat. By the way, histori-cally, and I think Louie agrees with this,the first drummer to play two bass drumswas Ray McKinley, who was a drummer/bandleader prior to Louie's popularity. Ithink he had a set that he used on one num-ber, but he never played it with the band,so Louie deserves full credit for that. Idon't know if Louie saw him and that wasthe seed that was planted, but that waswhat happened. Then I carried the use ofthem into the bebop small-group era,

because by then I was with a well-knowngroup, Charlie Ventura, who at the timewas really big. That was really where Ibecame known. I played with him for twoyears, and we traveled all over the country.RF: How long did it take you to adjust tothe double bass?ES: I seemed to take to it. I never reallypracticed it. I always had pretty fast feet. Iwould practice with my hands a lot, but Inever had a place where I could set up twobass drums. I was playing them on the job.

I'm still playing the basic drumset Idesigned a long time ago. I play 14x24and 14x22 bass drums, the larger being onthe right. When I don't have the two elec-tronic Modulus drums, I use 6", 8", and10" small rack tom-toms over the hi-hat. Iuse two 9 x 1 3 drums that are tunedapproximately a third apart, and I use a16x 16 floor tom on the right with a 16x 18floor tom in back of that. I also use a16x16 floor tom on the hi-hat side of thedrumset. All my cymbals are A. Zildjians,which are what suit my needs best. I'vebeen playing them for years. I use a Rock21 for rhythm, which is really good and I'dlike to recommend to people that it's areally good cymbal for all-around rockand jazz playing. I use two medium-thin18" crash cymbals, which are very com-mon among the big band players and arereal good for punching with the band.They are not rhythm cymbals. They'restrictly crash cymbals. I use a 16" on theleft bass drum for smaller crash effects anda pair of 15" New Beat hi-hats. I also play a22" pang cymbal upside down, which ismostly for rock and funky playing—thatold garbage-can sound.RF: Back to the Tonight Show, what aresome of the advantages and disadvantagesof having worked there for 22 years?ES: I thrive on variety. I'm very much likemy friend Ernie Watts, the tenor player inour band. We've talked about how he likesto play all kinds of music, including sittingin a five-piece classical woodwind quintet.I've enjoyed the experience I've had work-ing in symphonic situations. I got to be areasonably good timpanist some yearsago. The immense variety on a job like thisis always stimulating and challenging.We're always getting a lot of the newer actswith a lot of new music, which is why I saidI do a lot of defensive listening in additionto enjoyment listening. The general energyup there is terrific, which basically stemsfrom Doc Severinsen. He's not only asuperb virtuoso musician, but he's also agreat bandleader. He made the statementmany years ago, "I never want this to

sound like a studio band. I want this tosound like a road band that's in a studio."That's a terrific way to describe what hehas brought about all these years. We go inthere, and we'd better be ready to play realhard and give 110% all the time, becausethat's the way he plays. He never asksmore of us than he does of himself. He stillpractices trumpet at least three hours aday, and I wouldn't be surprised if that'sseven days a week. I've seen him do it whenwe're on the road, and we've all laid downto take a nap. He finds an empty ballroom,and he practices. That's a dedicated man,so he backs up what he asks of us. He and Ihave gotten along famously for manyyears because we both share that attitude.When I'm a bandleader, my attitude is thatI don't mind if somebody doesn't do toowell, but what does matter is whether ornot that person is trying. That's what it'sall about. Plus, we have a real pride inbeing the Tonight Show band. The fact isthat Carson is a fine artist who leaves theband alone in the sense of appreciating usand letting Doc take care of the music.Unlike many other people I've workedwith, he doesn't try to bug people. Whenhe hires a good lighting man, he lets him dothe lighting. The same goes for the band. Ican tell you what that means when youwork with a person four or five days aweek, year in and year out, for 22 years.You get to appreciate those qualities. But Ican't think offhand about any disadvan-tages, and if I could, I would tell you. Ithink we should get a new backdrop for theband. Rococo blue and silver are not myfavorite, but that's kind of a moot point,isn't it?

I really enjoy what I do. A lot of collegekids come up and ask, "How much moneydo you think I can make in the studios?" Isay to them, "Very little, if that's your atti-tude. Obviously, the music doesn't meanvery much to you.'' When I started to play,I played with the attitude that most youngmusicians in creative music played with:Music was the all. You were only in it forthe music, and whatever came your way,came your way. I always lived to playmusic; I didn't play music to live. That'sthe way most musicians I grew up withwere. Some of us in New York were livingfive and six in one small apartment, andsometimes we didn't have much to eat, butI can't remember a happier time in my life.We played every night. We used to go toNola's Studio and pass the hat. Peoplewould come up who had heard about ourjam sessions and pay a quarter if theywanted to sit and listen to us blow. Thatwould pay for the studio at the rate of$2.00 an hour. People as eminent as MilesDavis used to come by once in a while andsit in with us. We played every night, and Iworked at the phone company during theday.RF: If and when the Tonight Show ends,what do you foresee for yourself?

ES: Continuing with my clinic activities,trying to activate a little more work for mybig band and quintet, and definitely goingback to teaching. I'm looking forward tothat part of it a lot. I always feel that, whenmy time is over, the best contribution I willhave made will be helping hundreds ofyoung drummers to some degree. I hopeI've left a legacy of good, professionalplaying, and some creativity and original-ity, but I hope I've left that other thingtoo—that tradition of passing it on. Peo-ple saved my life when I was a confusedand unhappy kid. The Jo Joneses, theCount Basies, the Sidney Catletts, the ArtBlakeys, the Buddy Riches, and the LouieBellsons showed me a way to go, through

their kindness and generosity. I was readyto sweat and work, but they put out a verywelcome and helping hand. Jo Jones usedto have a saying, "You have to pass it on tothe kiddies," and you couldn't say it anybetter than that. I feel a real obligation topass it on, and I always try to have time foryounger drummers. I'm only doing whatwas done for me.

by Peter Magadini

What To Listen ForIt's been said many times that a skilled drummer is also a very goodlistener. He constantly listens carefully to everything going onaround him in every musical situation. It's equally important for adrummer to know precisely what to listen for in different musicalsettings. With that thought in mind, here are three common, yetvery different, group settings, with some sound ideas on just whatto listen for.

The Jazz Quintet(Piano, Bass, Guitar, Solo Horn, Drums)

In this situation, it's essential to provide a relaxed, steady timeflow. It's also important to listen to the entire group through theride cymbal. In this way, you'll hear what the other members of thegroup are hearing. Remember to focus your hearing, first with thebass player, and then with the piano and guitar. Listen for phras-ing and rhythmic patterns. However, never take your mind and earaway from the soloist. Play musically and positively. The othermusicians will have confidence in your musical ability as long asyou're in total control of the situation. Remember, never play withso much dynamic velocity that you're unable to hear the rest of theband clearly at all times.

Six-Piece Rock Band(Lead Guitar, Rhythm Guitar, Keyboards, Bass, Vocalist, Drums)

The six-piece rock band is a popular combination in today'smusic. Here again, the bass player must be your number-one con-cern. That is the person you must lock in with. After that, it's therhythm guitar. This is the heart of any rock or blues rhythm sec-tion. Since rock rhythm sections primarily play 8th-note patternswith heavy accentuation on 2 and 4, it's extremely important for adrummer to play a strong, steady bass drum with a deliberate focuson a heavy backbeat.

The lead guitarist is used mainly as a soloist. The vocalist is per-haps the last consideration. As long as the required feel is evident,a good vocalist can usually do his or her job with ease. Play withconfidence, and don't be so willing to take the blame for someoneelse's time problem. Good time is a group effort.

The Big Band

Playing with a big band requires a considerable amount of con-centration. A big band can range anywhere from eight to 20 pieces,with 16 being a good average. Big bands place a great deal ofresponsibility on a drummer's shoulders. In essence, 16 players arerelying on you for solid time, fills, setups, and inspired solo back-ing, all while you interpret your own written part in an accurateand musical fashion. If you're not a strong, solid player, a bigband will either rush ahead or slow down like an airplane coming infor a landing. You must take charge with a big band, so that every-one knows exactly where the pulse is.

Again, you must first listen to the bass player, followed by theother members of the rhythm section. This is the foundation uponwhich everything else is built. After the rhythm section is together,your next priority is the lead trumpet player. The first trumpet isyour guide to how the horns will phrase and interpret the rhythmicpatterns of the chart. The soloist would be next in order of impor-tance, followed by the full trumpet, trombone, and sax sections.The pulse must be stated strongly through the ride cymbal in a bigband situation, and you must never allow the time feel to get awayfrom you.

playing a real bass drum, the attack is totally different. You don'thear the click. You hear boom boom. But I'm getting used to it.Peter and I worked on that tune for about three or four days—justdrums.RT: It reminds me of some Phil Collins-type noise gate stuff.DB: Right, well these guys are Phil Collins freaks, especiallyJeremy [Smith, engineer]. He took me down to this place in L.A.called The Music Grinder. There's a room in the back where I guessPhil Collins did some stuff. It's a really big room. The sides are allbrick and the ceiling's huge. You can go in there and have maybetwo room mic's, not even mike the drums, and get that huge soundthat Phil Collins gets. So that's where they got the idea. We didsome drum stuff down there. It's great. I love rooms like that. Youdon't have to close-mic' anything. There's a lot of ambience.RT: Some of the electronic stuff on Hoopla reminds me of the lastYes album.DB: I've heard some cuts off that record. I'm into that stuff, and Iwant to get into it more. Peter Wolf taught me a lot about that. Ididn't know that he studied drums for a while. At the very end of"Love Rusts," we do this marching thing. Jeremy also studiedsome marching snare in school, so the three of us went out there. Iset the mic' right over my snare and tuned it up tight, so I could rollon it. Then, these guys were going rat ta-ta-tat ta-ta-tat, and I wasdoing all the quick stuff. It was a lot of fun.RT: There's also what sounds like a kettle drum coming down onthe l .DB: Do you know what I did? I took one of my kick drums, puttwo heads on it, and took the stuff out of the inside. I took a malletand played it like a marching drum. Again, that was Peter's idea. Ilove stuff like that.RT: You always sound real strong on the ballads. Have you devel-oped any ideas about playing ballads over the years?DB: Just basically to think about different parts of the song insteadof playing it straight through. Like on "No Way Out," instead ofplaying everything straight, I decided to keep the kick off the 1. Atfirst, I was playing it on the 1, and it just wasn't right. You justhave to think about ballads. I don't think you can take them forgranted, but everybody does. They're so easy to play. But whatyou want to do is make it different in a sense. You want it to still besimple and laid back, but you can do little different things to it tomake it something else. You know, Mickey's a ballad singer, and"Fooled Around And Fell In Love" is the same thing—just hi-hat,kick, and snare, but doing little different things to it, instead of justkeeping it straight through the whole song.RT: You leave a lot of space on some songs.DB: Well, there's an old rule that less is more. I never used to playthat way. I always used to think, "Man, I hear something there. Iwant to play something there.'' But I've learned over the years thatthat's not right. My object is to create space and have the drumsbasically not do anything there. Don't set up the 1. Don't roll backinto the change. Just play into it. You don't think it will fit, but it

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does. Especially when you're making records, it does fit, becausethat leaves room for a guitar to come in there since there's no roll.You don't always have to go into something to kick it back in. Youcan still play the regular groove, and then come back in and maybehit the crash. Simplicity: Peter Wolf influenced me on that in thelast couple of years—as far as this record goes, anyway. I've donesome other records where I don't feel like that at all. [laughs]RT: I think we all tended to fill it up more when we were younger.DB: Um hum, overkill.RT: On the song "Hearts Of The World Will Understand," there'shardly any tone to the tom-toms at all.DB: It 's dry, I know, but it's not my fault, man. [laughs] It's kindof cool, but in first talking with Peter and Jeremy, I didn't like thetom sound. They had thoughts of their own, so we kind of meteach other halfway on that one. Yeah, they are a little flat, but itworks with the song. I think I used some lit t le Gretsch concert tomson that song: an 8" and a 10" with no bottom heads. We put a littletape on them. I think I was in this room at the Record Plant inSausalito that's all mirrors. It's really live, so we put up a bunch ofpacking blankets, left the ceiling bare, and got a different soundout of it with the toms on that song. I don't mind the sound for thatsong, but I wouldn't want it on the whole record.RT: You and bassist Pete Sears work together very well, like on"Desperate Heart." Do you guys get together outside the rest ofthe band to work on your parts?DB: Of course. Sometimes I go over to his house. We didn't dothat on this album as much as we did on the last album. That par-ticular song calls for nothing else but to play it straightforward.We both knew what we had to do. In fact, Peter played a lot of keybass besides electric bass, which was different. But yeah, we'd gettogether in the studio before the rest of the guys would get there,and we'd go over stuff all the time, because we have to get it right.The other guys can mess up, but we can't. We can't go back and fixit, you know. Peter's a great cat. He's English, which was kind ofweird, because I'd never played with an English bass player, andit's different. Usually, I'd be playing with a bass player who knewhow to pop and do all that funky stuff besides laying it down. ButPeter didn't know how to do that. Now with this album, he's get-ting into popping and playing different little things, because heplays really good guitar, too, as well as keyboards. I love playingwith him. It gets better and better, and if it does that, I'm happy.RT: Is Craig Chaquico the kind of guitar player who looks forsomething out of you to kick him in the butt during a live show?DB: Oh, of course. He's always jumping up on the riser, and get-ting together and playing with me. I love that type of energy andphysical contact, because for some reason, it makes you feel likeyou're playing better than you are sometimes and you get thatfeedback from each other. Now that we have only one guitar, Ihave to keep it very simple but very strong, and Craig has to do thesame thing.RT: I've noticed that you've got just one bass drum in your currentsetup.DB: On this tour, I'm just using one. On previous tours with theStarship, I've usually used double kick. But they take up a lot ofroom. Plus, I don't think I'll be using the double kick like I used to.RT: Have you always played double kick?DB: Well, when I got with this band, yeah.RT: Was it a requirement?

some of the songs they were doing required it. Plus, it's just anextra color that you can use sometimes. I didn't use it on everysong, but there were maybe two or three songs in a 15-song set thatI would use them on. Then, I would do a solo in the set—solo withthe doubles and whatnot. Pete would start out with the bass andthen fade out, and I would come in with the double kicks. Then, Iwould get crazy, and that would be the end of it. [laughs] I don'tthink we're going to do that anymore. I think Pete's going to do ashort bass solo, and I'm not going to do one at all.RT: What are your feelings about drum solos?DB: They can be very boring, but you can make them not boring atall. I'm talking about getting to the point, instead of slowing down

DB: Aynsley had a double kick, and when I first got in the band,

like everybody does, right? Do it. Get to the point. There were twoparts in my solo where I'd get nuts. I'd go to toms, double kicks,and all that stuff. Then, I'd stand up and yell at the crowd, "Heyman, come on man." Show time, right? Then, I'd go back and do awhole other thing, and then just stop, stand on the drums, and say,"Well, what did you think?" I stand on the seat, throw somesticks, and then I just go, "Heeeyyyy." It's being a showman onstage instead of just playing. It's always good to do something withthe crowd to get something back. That's just part of it. It gets thecrowd up, too. It's just being a showman and playing well. It lastedprobably two to five minutes, which I think is long enough.

I know a lot of people don't do solos anymore. If you're going todo it, it depends on how you do it. It shouldn't go on and on,because it can be very boring. People don't want to sit and watchsomebody go nuts on the drums for ten or 15 minutes, unless it'ssomebody who's well-known and outrageous. But I could take itor leave it, man. I think I'm going to leave it for a while. I lovedoing it. I really do. But it's different from this album to the lastalbum, and going out this year is different from last year. That'swhy I dropped one kick, and I might even drop a tom or two. Imight compact the whole thing a little more and just have what Ineed.RT: I see you've got Pearl power toms.DB: Yeah, I love Pearls. The mounted toms are 13", 14", and 15".The floor tom is a 16", and I've got an 18". The 15" deep powertom is my favorite.RT: Yeah, it looks dangerous.DB: Well it's good because you don't have to hit it very hard either.The harder you hit, the less response you get. I also endorseSabian. I've got a box of about 50 cymbals in the other room thatthey let me try out: swishes, rides, crashes. I even have a little 8" upon the left side that they sent me, which I used on this album. It's socool, because it's quick and fast. I used it a lot on "We Built ThisCity." I toyed mostly on the drums. I didn't really get into a lot ofcymbals on this record. We were talking one day, and Grace men-tioned the fact that it's really cool when you can play your drumsand not have to hit the cymbals all the time, because she hatescymbals anyway. I understood what she meant, so I just kind ofgot away from it a little bit. It's not that I won't play cymbals live,but on the album it fit better if I didn't go nuts on the cymbals.RT: Do you tune your own drums? I sometimes feel funny askingdrummers that.DB: Well, on the last tour last year, I had this roadie who wasactually pretty good at changing heads. He gets them close, andthen he takes them up a little bit. By the time I get there, they'vestretched a little bit, and then I can fine tune them. As long as heknows my sound and gets them close, so I can come in and fine tunethem without having to spend a bunch of time, it's great. He'spretty consistent. Actually, it surprised me, and it spoiled me. Butbasically, I tune my own drums. It's just getting all the tensionright. I use Pinstripes, you know. I think they're black Ambassa-dors on the bottom. I haven't looked at the bottom heads in solong. In fact, I should change them before I go out. But they lookcool, and they're thin, which I like on the bottom. It gives me a lotmore sound. It's hard to go wrong with those power toms. That'swhat I wanted. I didn't want a set that I'd have to beat the shit outof. I wanted a set that I could play, and get a sound that's deep witha lot of kick and snare. This is the first set of drums that has neverreally messed with me. With most sets, you play them one day andthey're different from the other day, especially when the weatherchanges and they've been in the truck. These are pretty consistent,and that's what I really like about them. Also, I use the DW pedalswith a wood mallet and flat top.RT: What kind of vocal mic' do you use? Do you have a headset?DB: I did have a Shure headset, but it became a hassle. I'd have towear a headband. It was awkward. Plus, I was used to having aboom where I could swing it in and swing it out anytime I wantedit, and it wasn't always there in my face. Sometimes I'd yell,"Where's my stick?" The mic' would still be on! This way I canturn around and swing it away. It's just easier and a lot calmer.RT: Is there a stick you swear by?

DB: I'm using 25s, Regal/Calato, wood tip. They're good. I tookthe varnish off them. Then I took a Swiss army knife with the jag-ged blade and roughed up the handle a little bit. It gives me a bettergrip. By the end of the tour, my hands look like shit, you know.RT: Do you get splinters?DB: Not splinters, just heavy callouses. The 2B is a big stick too,but that's rock 'n' roll, [laughs]RT: The song "Live And Let Live" on Nuclear Furniture has avery sparse and tasteful drum part. What were you thinking abouton that one?DB: I was just thinking about playing it differently, instead of play-ing something you would normally think of when you heard thatsong. I wanted to give it some kind of a mood. It's that type ofsong, I think. It's kind of a droning song. You can create a moodwith the drums if you think about a song. It was a combination ofplaying it different ways and finally finding something that fit. Itwas a matter of saying, "Okay, I don't think I should play thatright there. I'll leave that space."RT: I'd think the rest of the band would love you because you're soconscious of leaving that space.DB: Yeah, I'm glad I have that in me, because musicians some-times have this attitude that, "I'm going to show you my stuff,man. Dig this." And you don't have to do that. I can play a lot ofthis and that, but what's most comfortable for me is just to lay itdown, and think about what I can do to keep it simple but strong.You can do that in the studio especially, because you have theoption of other things, drumwise. I love space. I love playing stuff,but sometimes it doesn't call for that. Somebody else can put athing in there that may even make it more magical, or then again,maybe I'll play through it. It all depends on the tune. I might play itthat way on the record, but when we get out live, I'll fill that spaceup, because it's live, so it's different from studio stuff. It's still thesame groove, but you can play a little more.

The thing that's good about the Starship is that it's never stayedthe same. I think the group has always accelerated with its music,and I think Hoopla is the best product that it's done in a long time.That's what I like, because you learn by not being afraid to dosomething else besides what you're used to doing. I love doingthat. It's like the drum sounds and stuff. I'm open to all that. Aslong as it's me who's creating that, then I'm open to using thatSimmons, that click, that Linn, or whatever, as long as it doesn'tsound like a machine, and then say, "Donny Baldwin on drums."It's too weird; I don't want to do that. But I'm open to all theelectronic stuff—all that good stuff that's happening to my benefit,and I'm learning at the same time. You've got to stay up with thatstuff. If you don't, then you'll have to play Top 40. Then again,you might need it for that, too.RT: What about tempos when you're playing live? Do you everhave problems getting the right tempos?DB: I have problems if other people count it off, because it'salways different. I don't have too many problems as long as I countthe songs off. When you're playing live, everything's going to be upanyway because of your energy level. I don't really have any prob-lems with it. I have problems with people that don't listen to thetempo and play ahead of me. I can't stand that. It's got to be asclose as you can have it, especially live. You've got to watch andlisten. I mean, they can't play without us anyway. We lay it down.We can't just drop our sticks and go get a drink off our amp. I can'tstand that feeling when it's a little bit ahead or a little bit behind.It's got to be as close a lock as you can get. That takes listening,looking at each other, and having that partnership. It's not thathard to do. Communicate. Talk about it.

I know that everybody's energy on stage is different sometimes.Sometimes you're up, sometimes you're down, and sometimesyou're in the middle. But you've got to play together, especiallynow that we have just guitar, bass, and drums as the nucleus of thesection. It's not that I'm the king of the stage or anything, but I'mthe heartbeat. And if you're not listening, then of course you'regoing to be a hair off. I'm going to know it, and I'm going to feel it.As long as you talk about it, then it's easy to get it together. It's amatter of talking, watching each other, getting down, and doing it.

NashvillePerspective

by John Stacey

John Stacey is one of Nashville's busiestdrummers, and he is rapidly gaining prom-inence among drummers nationwide. Pro-filed in MD's March, 1984 issue, John fin-ished second only to Larrie Londin in theCountry Drummer category of last year'sMD Readers Poll, and finished fifth overallin the Studio Drummer category. In thiscolumn, this talented and versatile playershares some views on equipment, tuning,working with producers and engineers,and other facets of studio work—all fromhis "Nashville perspective."

My work in Nashville has taught me thatthere is more to being a good studio drum-mer than just being able to play well. It's acombination of a lot of things. For exam-ple, besides the obvious qualities, like tech-nique, style, experience, etc., a musicianmust also have the necessary equipment,which must be kept in A-l shape. Person-ally, I find that wooden shells give me thetrue tone I like, as opposed to the tinnyring that some wood-fiber shells have. Iplay a variety of snare sizes, ranging indepth from 5" to 10"; I choose which sizeto use according to what material I amgoing to be playing.

Producers have varied ideas about whatkinds of sounds they want, and it is the jobof the studio drummer to come up withthose sounds. You'll find that you'll some-times need additional equipment to meetthe needs of different styles of music.Sometimes I need electronic drums, tim-bales, congas, bongos, etc.

Tuning And Miking

Now let's talk about tuning. First, besure that your studio drumset is easy totune. You'll have only a limited amount oftime in which to tune, and you shouldpractice to become proficient at this. Startyour tuning with a basic, even tone on thetop and bottom heads of all your toms.This will produce a sympathetic ring fromall the drums when the bass drum isplayed, which I personally feel makes for agood studio sound.

Specific, melodic tuning is anotheraspect of studio playing. After listening toseveral run-throughs of a song, I decidewhat and where my tom fills will be. If asong is in the key of C, and a section needsa tom fill around the I (C) chord and the IV(F) chord, I will tune my toms harmoni-cally around the I and IV chords. For

recording, I think this kind of melodic tun-ing is superior to the basic tuning, but ofcourse, it isn't practical for live playing.

Another type of tuning is what I call the"sweep." This is done by loosening onelug on the top head completely, which pro-duces a descending sweep from one pitchto another. Just be careful not to sweepthrough the bass guitar notes, which sus-tain true pitch, because intonation prob-lems could result. This sweep can also beproduced on electronic drums, and in thatcase, you'll have more control of pitch andsustain.

Let me say something about tone con-trol or muffling. Muffling the toms or snaredepends on the booth or room you areplaying in. Due to the importance of timein a recording situation, I use the clip-ontype of mufflers on my toms, becausethey're easy and quick to work with, andthey do the job. For that deep, powerfultom sound, I use Deadringers for thedampening. For muffling the snare, I use avariety of techniques, including tape,weights, etc.

The miking of drums is an importantissue in recording. Most of the time, thestudio engineer does most of the position-ing of the mic's and decides what specificmic's are to be used. There are many varia-bles because of studio size, acoustics, etc.,and these will change from studio to stu-dio. It's almost a matter of trial and error,and I try to get to the studio an hour or sobefore the session is scheduled to begin, inorder to work on drum sounds with theengineer. With the years of experience thatI now have at working in the Nashville stu-dios, I know basically what is required formy best sound.

Versatility

The next topic that I think is importantto a well-rounded drummer is the ability tobe versatile when it comes to styles ofmusic. In Nashville, I find that in one day Imay do three sessions back to back, eachfor a different style of music. A musicianhas to know the difference and playaccordingly. Naturally, there is a lot ofcountry music recorded in Nashville.Country can be deceiving because of itssimplicity. You have little freedom in whatyou play. Therefore, everything must beright on the line. Your main concern mustbe to enhance the lyrics of a country song,

which means simple, basic—but solid—playing.

Country rock is another style I'm fre-quently called on to do. Here you havemore freedom of expression and can putmore of your own personality into yourplaying. But remember, the lyrics are stillyour number-one concern. Don't ever getin the way of the mood and lyric.

Bluegrass music has been revived in thelast few years and is now popular again.There are really two types of bluegrassnow: the "old" and the "new." The"new" bluegrass is actually more or lessusing the basic country style, but only usesbluegrass material, instruments, harmon-ies, etc. The "old" style bluegrass isanother matter. Originally, no drums wereused at all (and still aren't by the purists).But in the late 1960s, the snare drum wasallowed—played with brushes only. Onebasic rhythm pattern is used in most blue-grass music, whether it's the "old" or"new" style. The only real variance is inthe tempo. Unlike other styles, in blue-grass the tempo can change in a song aslong as everyone is in the groove together."Feel" is most important.

Working With The Producer

Now let's talk about the producer in arecording situation. He or she is the personresponsible for pulling the music, themusicians, and the artist all together. Theproducer hopefully gets them all on thesame wavelength, and they all worktogether toward the same goal: to take apiece of material and make the best record-ing possible. Your first responsibility, vis-a-vis the producer, is to take his or hermusical ideas and incorporate them withyour own. The studio is no place for ego or"showboating." Your one and only inter-est should be to do what the producer asksyou to do to make a good record. Sure, youcan play your own style and put yourselfinto the music, but don't lose sight of whatthe producer wants you to do. That is yourjob, whether you agree with his or hermusical ideas or not.

Working With The BandWe've talked about a lot of restrictions

on the studio drummer. Now let's talkabout grooving with the band. As youmight guess, in a studio recording situa-tion, this is not always easy. The musiciansare generally partitioned off from each

other (especially the drummer) because ofleakage onto other tracks. You mustdepend on the headphones to hear yourselfand the others. Not hearing the vibrationsacoustically is an uncomfortable situation,and it is one of the most difficult handicapsin recording. It's hard to "get into'' a pieceof music under those circumstances. Keep-ing the tempo from rushing or dragging is aheavy responsibility for the drummer. It isan absolute must that the rhythm section(bass, drums, and other rhythm instru-ments) listen closely to each other andwork tightly together. If they are all work-ing and listening to each other constantly,they can generally keep the tempo where itshould be. If they are tight, then it isalmost impossible for the singer, artist, orthe lead instruments to push ahead ordrag.

Dynamics are important in any music,and I feel that the drummer can lead thegroup in this area. You should have a defi-nite feel for where the music should builddynamically or where it should drop.There is nothing quite as effective, musi-cally, as a sudden drop in dynamics afterthings have been honking!

Something we haven't touched on yet,but that is unfortunately a main aspect instudio recording work, is experience. Theonly way to know how to really handle arecording situation is to experience it overand over again. It is completely unique,and nothing like live playing. In live per-formance, the bass player may inspire thedrummer, who, in turn, may inspire thepiano player, etc. All together, this lets theensemble become one. In studio playing,this one-to-one relationship is difficult toattain. I miss that. Another differencebetween live playing and studio playing isthat, for live performance, you are trainedto memorize arrangements. But in studiowork, it's best to forget an arrangementquickly, so that you can think more crea-tively on the next song.

Most of the sessions I do begin withrhythm tracks, and usually we follow askeleton chord chart done in the now-famous Nashville "number system." Nothearing the rest of the instrumentation asyou're laying down tracks and not know-ing what the instruments will be playinglater on in an overdub session limits whatthe rhythm section can do. Experience isthe only key here. There is very little time(three hours for three songs, usually) todecide what to play. Every producer is dif-ferent, every engineer is different, and themusicians you work with change from ses-sion to session. So only through experienc-ing session after session can you get a realfeel for studio playing. Like many otherprofessions, how do you get experiencewithout being experienced? This is wherepersistence and luck come in handy.

Transcribed by Glenn Davis

Philly Joe Jones:

"Monopoly"

Photo

by

Tom

Co

pi

This month's Drum Soloist features the late Philly Joe Jones performing a 32-bar solo from the tune "Monopoly.'' This solo is taken froman album entitled Time Waits, The Amazing Bud Powell, on the Blue Note label (ST-81598 Vol. 4), recently rereleased by Toshiba-EMILimited of Japan.

Here is a solo that reveals Philly Joe's mastery of the brushes. His effective use of dynamics, as well as the way in which he works thebrushes for different sounds, is very evident in this solo: Bars nine and ten are good examples of this. At bar number 25, Philly Joe plays arhythmic pattern that sets up a "three feel" over the basic four pulse. This works well and sounds complicated, as if the time feel werechanging. To appreciate this solo fully, pick up the recording; it's a lesson in great drumming!

by Roy Burns

Drumming And FrustrationEvery drummer has run into people or situ-ations that are frustrating or annoying.Some frustrating situations are universaland some are uniquely personal. With thisin mind, I began to make my own list ofthings that get on my nerves—things thatare not always of major significance, butbug me just the same.

For example, I'm bugged by guitar play-ers who say things at rehearsals like,"Can't you play more like Steve Gadd orNeil Peart?" In a lot of cases, this sameguitarist can't read, can't keep time, andonly knows three chords. My answerwould be, "Sure, if you will play more likeJeff Beck!"

Then there are the recording engineerswho want to tune your drums themselves,because they want to achieve "theirsound." They say things like, "This soundis what is happening now." There's alsothe type of engineer who wants to drapeblankets, pillows, and miles of duct tapeall over your drums, and then says, "Getanother pillow. I think I heard some tonequality in one of the toms." Please checkthe mic's and the control board beforeretuning my drums, okay?

Drum teachers bother me when theypronounce, without hearing a studentplay, "Everyone starts at the bottom withme. You must go through each and everystep of my system. You must start at thevery beginning and begin learning all overagain." These people remind me of bar-bers who cut everyone's hair the same wayno matter what you ask them to do. Teach-ers of this type "hide" behind their sys-tems, rather than exploring new territorywith their students.

On the other side of that coin are drum-mers, who, when being interviewed byMD, say things like, "I never practice. Inever saw anyone play. I never read a drumbook or took a lesson. I just picked up thesticks one afternoon and worked my firstconcert gig that evening. I guess you couldsay I was just naturally great." Mostdrummers with this attitude have copiedevery lick they could off records, and stillcan only play three basic beats and two fill-ins. Give me a break! We all listen torecords and watch other people play. Weall learn from each other in some way. It'snot how you learn that counts; it's whetheror not you do learn that's important.

Every now and then, I run into a young

drummer who feels that taking drum les-sons will ruin his or her style. Good teach-ers provide information, help you to orga-nize your time, and suggest ways for you topractice. You are the only one who canlearn to play, and you learn that by play-ing. My suggestion is that, if you aretotally convinced that you shouldn't takedrum lessons, then study music. Get agood piano or vibes teacher and get anunderstanding of the basics. I tend to agreethat rudimental-type practicing won'tsolve all of your problems, although it canbe of some value. However, understandingmore about music should help any drum-mer play more musically.

Another type of interview that annoysme is the one where the drummer says, "Idid that first. Everyone copies me. Everygreat beat you have heard in the last 20years is a rip-off of my earlier records. Ihave never received enough credit or rec-ognition." This type of personality actu-ally believes part of what he or she is say-ing. When you think about it, this is apretty sad ego trip. It is also tiresome toread or listen to.

Then there is the local drummer who hasyet to play with a name group, travel, orrecord. This drummer feels overlookedand says things like, "It's all politics. I canplay anything so-and-so can play. I canplay along with all the top records, but noone will hire me. I just need publicity. Allthese name drummers are jerks." This isjust a case of sour grapes. You have to payyour dues in this business, and that is notalways easy, even if you do have a lot oftalent. Just because you can play alongwith someone's recording doesn't meanthat you could have made the recording.Remember, those "name" drummers hadto do something right just to become"names."

Metal drumsticks is another pet peeve ofmine. I don't know why, but this conceptmakes a comeback every few years. Some-how drummers think that, if they becomestronger, they will be better. My personalapproach has always been the approachused by guitarists, trumpet players, pianoplayers, bass players, and saxophonists."You practice on the instrument on whichyou are going to perform." If you playwith big sticks, then by all means practicewith big sticks. If you play with smallsticks, then practice with small sticks.

After all, great trumpet players do notpractice on "a great big trumpet" to buildup endurance. They simply practice on aregular trumpet. Steel drumsticks justdon't help much in my opinion. For onething, the response is unrealistic. Steel ormetal sticks bounce and vibrate too much.Also, there is always the possibility of abone bruise if you overdo it. "Practicewith the sticks you play with" seems to meto be a sensible and practical approach.

I've always thought it dishonest whensome drum companies proclaim in largeletters in their catalogs "Triple ChromePlating." This is amusing when you con-sider that chrome plating is a three-stageprocess: copper, nickel, and chrome. Youcannot chrome-plate chrome. So wheredoes "Triple Chrome Plating" comefrom? From the same place that "all-metalshell" comes from I guess: advertising. Imean, come on. What kind of metal?"All-metal" could mean almost anything.My advice is to read all advertising care-fully. The best companies respect drum-mers, and they want you to know whatthey have to offer. If the product is good,the truth can only help.

Another thing that bugs me is musicstore managers who put a sign in the drumdepartment that reads, "The EleventhCommandment: Thou shalt not play onthe drums," or, simply, "Do Not Touch."You know the type of store I mean. Eventhough the cymbals are on racks for dis-play, they are still in the plastic bags. Thismakes it tough to pick out a cymbal.Amusingly enough, the manager whoactually posted the "commandment" signsaid to me, "I just don't understand whywe don't do more drum business." Whilehe was saying this, people were trying outguitars, pianos, saxophones, and anorgan. I suggested that the first thing hemight do would be to take down his signand try to make drummers feel welcome.

Then there is the high school band direc-tor who charges into the band room threeminutes late to find the entire band warm-ing up at once, all playing a different pieceof music. The director waves his arms forsilence and says to the drum section,"Don't play. We have to tune up theband." This is great! The drummers havejust been told that they are not part of theband. I don't know why the director is soworried. The band hasn't really played in

tune in over 30 years. Besides, without thedrum section, the horn players wouldn't beable to march, much less play together. Indefense of band directors, I must admitthat they have a tough job. It is unfortu-nate that the drum section doesn't alwaysget the attention it deserves. However,band drummers take heart. Things areimproving, and as a general rule, drum sec-tions in school bands are much better thanthey were even ten years ago.

Some things never change. People willcontinue to think, "Drums are easy. Allyou have to do is bang on them.'' I supposethat one reason the average person mightfeel this way is that the great drummersmake it look easy. This can be deceptive toa person who has never played the drum-set. As any pro will tell you, it takes timeand effort to become a good drummer.

All drummers have their own list (atleast mentally) of things that get on theirnerves. It is apparent to me that we will notchange the world. However, sometimes ithelps to know that other drummers sharesome of the same frustrations. At least,you know that you are not the only onewith such feelings. So, the next time yourun into something that bugs you, don'tbecome too upset. Just say to yourself,"Here's one for the list." After all, no onesaid that being a drummer was going to beeasy.

talking about clock time. But when you'reperforming, you're also dealing with psy-chological time. I played that same compo-sition in Pisa, and it lasted for two hours,although the people didn't think two hourshad passed. There's a big differencebetween clock time and psychologicaltime. You're whole life can pass in front ofyou in two seconds, or you can be some-where where five minutes seems like sixhours. So I have to take all of this into con-sideration.

It has to do with the interaction with theaudience, too. I can estimate certain timesand how long certain rhythms will lastbefore I perform. But on stage, the peoplemay tell you something different. To tellyou the truth, I don't think the piece lastedthat long last night. It felt very good. Youknow, I disagree with that guy who saidthat the opening section lasted too long. Ifelt the majority of the audience disagreed,too. What makes the music is the audience.You cannot fool people. People knowwhat's happening. They might not knowthe technical part of it, but they knowwhen something is true or not. Now, whensome people say I play the same thing overand over, I don't let that bother me. I usedto. Well, it bothers me some. But when Iplay for people, they like it. Some peoplesay they don't know what I'm doing. Well,do you know what a surgeon is doing whenhe cuts you up? No. But you have faith init. The only gripe I have is with critics whodon't even listen to their own hearing.

They hear something and still come upwith stupid stuff, which is weird.EH: I think that, when people focus on therepetitious part of your music, they'rereacting to the simplicity of what you do. Itcan lead you to believe that it's not deep.It's simple, but not simpleminded. They'rereacting to the obvious discipline involved.JC: Discipline comes from practice. That'swhy you have to practice every day.EH: Why do you concentrate almostexclusively on solo drum playing?JC: Basically, I'm trying to get some kindof music for the drummers in North Amer-ica that they can call their own—especiallyjazz drummers and people who deal withthe drumset. Right now, drummers haveno music.

The framework of jazz has to change.With the usual quintet—saxophone, trum-pet, piano, bass, drums—their positionsand duties within the group have tochange. It has to be the same thing as inclassical music, where each instrument is asoloist. Right now, the drums are not asolo instrument, and that's only true inAmerica. I know Mexican drummers andAfrican drummers who are soloists. I havea very good friend who's a MexicanIndian, and the Mexican government sup-ports him to go around to different villagesand play solos.

People say, "We have four musiciansand a drummer." Do you know what thisdoes to you psychologically? It's embed-ded in you for years and years and years. It

screws you up. You have less respect foryourself. People wonder why drummersare so egotistical. After 200 or 300 years ofbeing looked at in that way, I give it tothem. I'm talking about a whole change ofattitude.

People say, "Why don't you get aband?" Who needs a band? Why should Igo broke trying to deal with a band? I loveplaying solo. Nobody tells Vladimir Horo-witz to get a band. Only in jazz music dothey want to keep us in a certain frame-work. And if this music is to go up, thedrummers are going to have to build them-selves up.

I have a friend who's a top critic in NewYork, and he makes fun of me because Ipractice. He said, "Jerome, you're crazy.Elvin Jones doesn't practice, and he'sgreater than you. You're not working, andyou sit in your room and practice all thetime." He drove me crazy. Elvin has a reg-ular group, and he's dealing with a certainaspect of music. Elvin Jones doesn't needto practice.

One of the things about jazz drummingis that drummers don't practice. Theydon't know how, and if they do practice,they don't practice enough. The fault lieswithin the framework of the music. Usu-ally, when I was growing up, and evennow, every member of the band was read-ing music, except the drummer. You'retold to play "what Tony Williams played"or "this lick I heard,"or you're just told toplay whatever you want to. And so when

everybody is reading and one person isn't,that one person has to go on ego in order toequalize things. If you're dealing withfixed rhythms, it's kind of tough. So drum-mers have a tendency to overplay.

When I talk about written music, I meaneither notes or some kind of structure. If aperson came up to me and showed me atune, and the tune was this salad, I wouldplay it. I'm serious. Structured improvisedmusic is supposed to stimulate the musi-cian. You don't have to take the score liter-ally. So if I'm going to be stimulated, I'mgoing to have to have something to look atto play.

Someone asked me where I thought thedrums would be in 50 years. Now there aretwo ways it can go. From the standpoint ofrock 'n' roll or studio drummers, they'regoing to be obsolete. Eventually, they'lljust have a machine to play those fixedrhythms. They're coming now. And in 50years, that type of drumming isn't going tobe happening anymore. So the drums aregoing to have to move up to the next level.I'm trying to take them to a classical level,where each instrument is equal as a soloinstrument.EH: In a way, you're fighting against aWestern tradition where harmony andmelody are most important and rhythm issecondary. There are also preconceptionsthat you can't play those things on thedrums.JC: The music isn't written for the drums.It's like when I was with the RevolutionaryEnsemble. I wrote from the piano, and Icouldn't play it on the drums, because itwasn't written for the drums.EH: But there are drummers who are verymelodic.JC: Who would you call a melodic drum-mer?EH: Well, for instance, Max Roach.JC: Max is melodic. But if I was a saxo-phone player, and I was playing with a so-called melodic drummer, I wouldn't toler-ate that stuff. First of all, you can't tune adrum to any one note. You hear drummerssay that they tune a tom-tom to B-flat andanother drum to A. That's an impossibil-ity. You might be able to tune the tom-tomto B-flat, but the first time you hit it, it'sgoing to lose its tuning. I don't deal with B-flat. I deal with sound—pure sound.

But to go back to what we were just talk-ing about, I know all jazz musicians wantto go to the classical level in our society.But some of them make the mistake of tak-ing it literally. You can't get rid of thesource—the drums.EH: You said that drummers don't prac-tice, don't know how to practice, anddon't practice enough. What would yousuggest? How do you practice?JC: I would work on the equivalent ofscales to a horn player. There are certainbooks I use: Stick Control, Accents AndRebounds, Bass Drum Technique. Like Isaid, you can't take things literally. Theonly thing you'd be doing would be deal-ing. In piano music, you can take a chord

in different inversions. Now in drummusic, you can play a paradiddle ten differ-ent ways. Drummers have to know how toget around a drumkit. So if I have a para-diddle, instead of playing it on the snaredrum, I'll play it on the cymbal. I've beendoing this for almost 15 years. I've devel-oped my own exercise technique fromthese books, dealing with the whole set,because you have to know how to getaround the drumset. It takes me, rightnow, about an hour to get through AccentsAnd Rebounds. To get through Stick Con-trol, it would take me about two hours,and to get through Bass Drum Technique,it would take me about an hour to an hourand a half. Then I'm done with the drum-

set, and I have my other instruments. Ihave my talking drum. Usually, I don'tpractice on my balaphon, because my bal-aphon is my drums. Now I'm getting intohand drums and frame drums, so I have topractice on them for an hour apiece. Sothat's about eight hours a day that I haveto practice. I wouldn't do that if I wasn'ttrying to take the music to a classical level.If I just wanted to be a regular drummer, Iwouldn't practice. When drummers saythey don't practice, I can understand whythey don't. Practice for what? They playthe same beat every time.

People ask where I have studied. To tellyou the truth, I didn't study anywhere.I've just made logical conclusions and

deductions based on external experiences.The reason I say this is because I'm meet-ing a lot of musicians who are very techni-cal and who deal with the theoreticalaspects of the music. Now I'm confrontedwith my own validity. They say I don'thold the drumstick correctly and that Idon't play things right. I'm saying that youcan't believe everything you read in thebooks. Books are supposed to stimulateyou to think for yourself. People have tolearn to think for themselves. You've gottoo many people reading these books, andthey're taking it literally. Great writers andartists stimulate people. They don't dictateto people. And I'm not dictating to you

now. I'm not telling other drummers to dowhat I do. I want drummers to think forthemselves and actually start thinkingabout their music. You meet drummerswho go to the piano and all these harmonicinstruments to write. I used to be the sameway, because I did not believe in my drum-set. And I know other drummers feel thesame way.

The drums are highly musical instru-ments. I know Moog synthesizer players,and that instrument is the closest to thedrums, in terms of pure sound and repeti-tion. In order to deal with certain aspectsof repetition, you have to practice, andyour chops have to be up to play these

rhythms at a continuous level. So some-times I look at myself as a synthesizerplayer. Last night, I looked at the cymbalsas a Moog synthesizer. What I playedwould have been cool if it was a synthe-sizer, but on the drums, people say it'sstrange. Now Richard Teitalbaum, orsomeone who I know is great, could playthose tones for hours, and it would bebeautiful.EH: How did writing from the piano affectthe group balance of the RevolutionaryEnsemble?JC: Well, that's in the past. That's likeasking me what I did in high school. ButI'll talk about it. When I was with the Rev-olutionary Ensemble, I wrote music fromthe piano. And writing from the piano,I'm playing drums. I came out secondary.I'll give you an example. When we did thatrecord for A & M, it was really done right.When we were in a studio, we would playthe music and then listen back. We couldcut out each instrument and hear each oneby itself. We would listen to Leroy's part,then Sirone's and then I could hear justmyself. It was awful. Although within thegroup context, it sounded good, by myself,it sounded horrible. So I said to myself,I'm going to have to change this wholething. But it was a cooperative group.

Also, I can't deal with amplification.Drums are an acoustic instrument, andwhen you're playing with amplified instru-ments, you have a tendency to overplay.It's almost like you're fighting against elec-tricity. You can't get certain sounds ifsomebody has this big amplifier.

A lot of times, I played the piano withthis group, in order to get musical equali-zation. We could talk about all beingequal, but when it came to the music, theway I was approaching the drums at thetime, it wasn't an equal thing musically. Ihad to be in their world. I couldn't givethem drum music to play harmonically. Atrumpet player or saxophone player couldget a bunch of musicians together and say,"Follow me," because that musicianwould be playing the harmonic line, andeveryone could follow along. But if adrummer did the same thing, it would behard to do.EH: How do you write for the octet?JC: When I presented my octet in NewYork, we had one rehearsal. But that's allwe needed, because all they had to do wasfollow me. I was playing the harmoniclines, so everyone knew what to play. Theydidn't have to look at each other and won-der. All they had to do was hear me andfollow. I wrote from the drums for them.That's all I do now. I have music where allI do is roll on the snare drum, and thatpiece lasts for about 20 minutes. It takes alot of concentration and a lot of practice.EH: How do you feel about playing withother drummers?JC: I love playing with other drummers. Ijust did a concert at Carnegie Hall. I could

have brought my octet. They paid meenough, but everybody does that. I wantedto bring in the drums, because the drumshad never been presented in that situation.I played with Rashied Ali and Glenn Velez.I wanted diversification, because a lot oftimes you have a tendency to use drum-mers who play the same when they playtogether. So I wanted to get a classicalframe drum to play against a drumset. I'veplayed with Milford Graves. As a matterof fact, I like playing with drummers morethan with horn players, because horn play-ers can succumb to identification prob-lems. There's the stereotype where thetrumpet player is the leader of the band,the piano player is this, and the saxophoneplayer does that, so people have a tendencyto overidentify with their instruments.EH: Is there a saxophone player whowould fit into what you are trying to do?JC: I'm not looking for a saxophoneplayer. I'm looking for an individual whomight be playing saxophone. Now, Kala-parusha [Maurice McIntyre] plays themusic of the drums, but he doesn't getmuch work. I really enjoy playing withKalaparusha. In fact, I have a record withhim and Frank Lowe. The reason I usedboth of them, even though they both playtenor, is that they are as different as nightand day. One of them is intellectual, andthe other is completely emotional. Theysound completely different. I wrote themusic in unison. With certain individualsyou can write parts in unison, and they willmake it seem like it's in harmonies. In myoctet, I have three violins, and each oneplays a different note. It depends on thepersonalities involved.EH: Have you always played drums?JC: I've played drums all my life. That'sall I've ever done. I've played differentkinds of music. In the '60s, I was intorhythm & blues. I played at the ApolloTheater and Royal Theater doing floorshows and such. But to me, it's all music. Ican't try to categorize it.EH: You also said you spent some time inAfrica.JC: I did. I went with an organ playernamed Lou Bennett. He got this gig in Sen-egal in a supper club for one or two monthsfor the French. The place was so expensivethat not too many Africans could afford togo there. At that time, I wasn't interestedin African drumming. When I was inDakar, I heard the Senegalese African Bal-let, and I liked it. But at that time, I was arepressed drummer. I went to the villagesand stuff, but not to check out the witchdoctors and master drummers. I went tothe villages just to visit. So a lot of peoplethink that's where I get my stuff, but as Isaid, I'm not an African drummer. I'veplayed with African musicians, not inAfrica, but in Paris and here in America.EH: Like last night, you played the blueson the balaphon—American music on an

African instrument.JC: That's right. Basically, that's what Iam: a blues musician. The blues comefrom the drums. That's all I play; I play theblues. "Bert The Cat" is a blues.

To me, the balaphon is a drum. Youhave some drummers who might have tendrums in their setups. Well, for me the bal-aphon is the same thing, except instead often drums, I have ten pieces of wood. SoI'm still playing the drums. Just because Iuse an African instrument or an Indianinstrument doesn't mean I play African orIndian music. That's like saying that any-one who plays the violin has to play Euro-pean classical music.EH: Some of your first work was with theAACM [Association for the Advancementof Creative Musicians].JC: What that organization did to drum-mers was horrendous. They didn't knowhow to deal with the music of the drums.Everyone knew that we wanted to go to theclassical level. But you had this heathendrummer and these people were playingEuropean instruments, so they didn't wantthe drummer to interfere with their music.A lot of those groups were drummerless.Then, a lot of times, what happened wasthat they got into stereotypes. Theythought, "We have to have a drummer."So you had to be African and play all theseAfrican rhythms.

One of the things about the AACM is

that, when they got rid of drummers, theygot rid of the drums. That's why they'regoing to be out of it. They put themselvesin competition with classical musicians, sowhat you hear is an imitation. I'm not say-ing everyone has to use a drummer. I'mjust saying that you can't just cut thedrums off. That is the core of the music,and if you remove the core, you'll havenothing but a hollow shell.

Now, Roscoe Mitchell plays drummusic. When we were living in Paris, Ros-coe and I played drums together. Roscoeeliminated drums from his groups for along time, because he is a drummer him-self. If you really know all of his music, thedrums play a very important part. Roscoeis an artist, so he has a right to eliminatethe drummer.

Cecil Taylor is a drummer, too. When Iplayed with Cecil, I played like a saxo-phone player. Cecil is one of the greatestdrummers in the world. With Cecil, youcan be yourself when you play. If you'renot yourself, you're wiped. When you playwith other leaders, they want you to playlike someone they heard.

My goal is for jazz to be on the samelevel as classical music, where each individ-ual would have to become a soloist. I'mnot doing this for myself. I'm doing it forAmerican music. Right now, the drum-mers are not soloists, because they have nomusic.

by Thom Jenkins and Marna Jay Morris

Noiseless LugsThom Jenkins is a drummer/percussionistfrom Atlanta, Georgia, with a particularinterest in sounds. Consequently, he's alsoan experimenter and innovator who can befound in his workshop building, modify-ing, or repairing percussion instruments(when he's not on stage with his group Cul-lowhee, or in local studios as a player,writer, or arranger). In this article, Thomoffers a simple solution to a nagging prob-lem for countless drummers.

As many of us already know, mostdrums can have annoying buzzes and rat-tles that are hard to locate and even harderto eliminate. These auditory gremlins usu-ally come and go—seemingly at random—making it even more difficult to find theirsource.

One very common type of unwantednoise is "spring-sing," which is the soundcaused by the vibrations of the retainingsprings inside the nut-boxes on mostdrums. The purpose of these springs is tokeep the threaded nut in place, whileallowing enough variation in the angle ofthe tension rod to prevent binding.

Spring-sing can be irritating on stageand disastrous in the studio when you arelooking for that "perfect" drum sound.Many studio drummers and drum techni-cians stuff nut-boxes with cotton balls todamp this vibration, but even this is notfoolproof, because the springs are still inplace, making metal-to-metal contact.

It should be mentioned that RotoTomslack these springs, as do some of the newerdrums with "nylon-insert" or otherspringless hardware. But many new drumshave them, as do most of the drums madein the last 50 years. In this article, we willlook at how to make "homemade" nyloninserts, using very few tools and an invest-ment of only a few dollars.

You will need a small ruler or calipers,an X-acto or other sharp knife, and ascrewdriver or nut-driver for removing thenut-boxes from your drumshells. The onlymaterial you will need to buy is several feetof vinyl tubing. I use 7/16" O.D. (11 mm)and 5/16" I.D. (8 mm) with a wall thicknessof 1/16" (1.5 mm). This is available in most

hardware stores for about 15 ¢ per foot.Two inches (5 cm) per lug is a good rule ofthumb for how much you will need.

First, remove the rims and heads fromyour drums. Then, remove the nut-boxes,taking care not to lose any parts. Makesure you pull them all, even if you don'tuse bottom heads. Look at one of the nut-boxes with the spring inside to see how itworks. Now, take your ruler and measurethe spring in place before removing it.

Add about 1/16" to 1/8" (1.5 to 3 mm) forcompression of the tubing, and cut the tub-ing to this length. I recommend cutting onepiece so that it fits where the spring wassnugly, and then removing it and using it asa model for cutting the other pieces. Notethat different size drums (toms and bass)sometimes have different size nut-boxes,and that differing brands of drums almostalways do. Take care to make good,straight cuts, and remember to watch thosefingers!

From this point, it is pure repetition.Replace all the springs with a length of tub-ing, making sure you get a good, snug fit.

Put your drums back together, being care-ful not to overtighten the screws thatattach the nut-boxes to the drumshells.When finished, you will have a quieter,more solid-sounding ki t , free of anyunwanted spring-sing.

(Left to right): Nut-box with spring inplace; nut-box with spring removed and in-sert cut; nut-box with insert in place. (Alsoshown are vinyl tubing and tools necessaryfor conversion.)

The Sóngoby Bobby Sanabria

The Sóngo is one of the newest Afro-Latin rhythms that has cometo light in recent years. It was invented in the early '70s by Cubandrummer/percussionist Jose Luis Quintana, better known by hisnickname Changuito. The Sóngo has combined elements of manyAfro-Cuban rhythms, along with a unique resemblance to the con-temporary funk rhythms of today. It is quite effective and excitingon the drumset.

Before learning the Sóngo patterns on the drums, we mustunderstand the key element involved in all Afro-Cuban rhythms,the Clave. The Clave is a two-bar phrase that outlines the keyaccents in any Afro-Cuban pattern. There are two basic forms ofClave: the 3/2 and the 2/3. The only difference between these twopatterns is that the 3/2 Clave begins with the measure that containsthree notes, and the 2/3 Clave begins with the measure containingtwo notes.The 3/2 Clave

The 3/2 Clave and the 2/3 Clave are typically known as the SonMontuno Clave (the rhythm most commonly used in popularAfro-Cuban dance music, which is better known as "Salsa").Most Latin musicians call it Son Clave for short.

Over the years, the Son Clave has evolved into a slightly morecontemporary sounding rhythm that is known as the RumbaClave. The only difference between these two is the displacement ofan 8th note. This displacement creates more tension and releasewithin the rhythm, because it superimposes a feeling of 6/8 meterin 4/4 time.The 3/2 Rumba Clave

The 2/3 Rumba Clave

Now that we understand the Clave, let's see how it interacts withthe basic Sóngo drumset rhythm.

The accents of the Sóngo rhythm coincide perfectly with the 2/3Rumba Clave; hence, it is "On Clave." To play a 3/2 Clave pat-tern that will fit with the Sóngo pattern, simply begin the Sóngopattern on the second bar.

The following patterns are variations on the basic Sóngo drum-

set pattern. They are separated by limb, so that you can concen-trate on one variation at a time. Any and all combinations can beused together. Each of these variations is written in 2/3 RumbaClave.

Cowbell Variations

Bass Drum/Hi-hat Variations

To best understand the essence of Sóngo, you should listen tothe groups that perform it. Some recordings that have examples ofSóngo and other Cuban rhythms involving drumset include:Mongo Santamaria's Mongo Magic and Images, Daniel Ponce'sNew York Now, and various recordings by the group Irakere, aswell as the band Los Van Van. I highly recommend recordings byLos Van Van, simply because the inventor of the Sóngo, Jose LuisQuintana, plays drums in the band. These recordings containmany of the variations of the Sóngo that have been discussed here,and they should give you a good background in how the rhythmsshould flow.

Left-Hand Variations

The 2/3 Clave

play with it for nothing.At any rate, the band had made a

recording, on Okeh, of "Clarinet Marma-lade" and "Mama Will Be Gone," andwas in Fort Worth to play a dance at aplace called the Meadowmere. To comeright to the point, the band was to performat a local record store—to plug the record-ing—in the afternoon. It was canceled atthe last minute because Hamel, the drum-mer, took sick; he had had an appendicitisattack the previous night.

Jimmy Maloney—that was Joy's realname—was frantic to find another drum-mer for the job that evening. His tromboneplayer, Jack Brown, got on the phone andcouldn't get anyone. I had just walked intothe store with a friend of mine. He turnedaround and said, rather boldly, "I hearthere's a kid drummer in town who'sgood." That scared me to death. I startedto sneak away. But my friend RussellWard, a local clarinet player, grabbed meby the collar and said, "Yeah, and here heis!"

The windup was terrific. I went out andplayed with the Jimmy Joy Orchestra atthe Meadowmere. I had to borrow a pairof long pants to do it, because I was only 11or 12 and didn't have any of my own.

That was a giant step forward for a kiddrummer. Not only did these fantasticmusicians speak to me, but I played withthem. It was absolutely thrilling. The big-gest kick, however, came after the job. Theguys in the band asked me if I could leavewith them the next morning for KansasCity to make some more records. Well, mydaddy wouldn't let me out of school, andof course, that broke my heart. But I hadthe ultimate experience: being associatedwith the Jimmy Joy Orchestra.

The other thing that happened wasmemorable and, in some ways, uplifting.But it had a disappointing ending. Aroundlate 1927, I spent some time with the mem-bers of the Ben Pollack band in Chicago. Ihad been on the road for a time. It was myhope that I would get a chance to play witha really top band.

Pollack was appearing at the BlackhawkRestaurant. He had some fine players;Glenn Miller was in the band. Theysounded terrific. Of course, Ben was agreat drummer and most influential. Thatnight, I sat in and everyone seemed to likewhat they heard.

Six months down the line, I happened tobe in Chicago again, and Pollack con-tacted me. He said, "Look kid, I'm goingto hire another drummer. I want you tojoin us. Just keep it under your hat; don'ttell anyone—not a soul." I was very

excited at the prospect of playing with thisband.

Within a few months, I heard that JackTeagarden, the great trombonist, hadcome into the Pollack band and broughtalong Ray Bauduc to take Ben's spot at thedrums. I can't tell you how badly I feltwhen I found out. But I did have the satis-faction of having been asked by one of thegreat drummers of that time to be hisreplacement in his own band. That parti-ally made up for the great disappointmentI felt.BK: During the worst part of the Depres-sion you, like other really good musicians,were affected by the horrible economicdownturn. Work was not easy to get.When you got the call from Glenn Miller in1932 to join singer Smith Ballew's band,you immediately accepted the offer. Was ita good band?RM: There were some excellent players:trumpeter Bunny Berigan, bassist DelmarKaplan, and later, cornetist J immyMcPartland and pianist Fulton McGrath.But the band never got going. It broke upand re-formed several times.

In 1934, after rattling around the coun-try with Ballew and playing for peanuts,things began to look up a bit with FDR. Abunch of us out of the Ballew orchestra—Glenn Miller, myself, saxophonist SkeetsHurfurt, trombonist Dom Mattison, gui-tarist Roc Hillman, and singer KayWeber—joined the Dorsey BrothersOrchestra in March of that year.

The Dorsey Brothers Orchestra was rel-atively short-lived. It played top spots,recorded a good deal—59 sides forDecca—and performed extensively on theradio. But the Dorseys battled constantlyabout music and how it should be played.In the summer of 1935, there was a bigblowup at the famed Glen Island Casino.Tommy walked away. Jimmy took overthe band and most of the players, includ-ing McKinley, stayed on with him.

Despite the tense working conditions,the Dorsey Brothers Orchestra managed tomake some fine music. Drummer CliffLeeman says, "I caught the Dorseys on aone-nighter in Massachusetts. A buddyand I came down from Maine to hear theband. It was very much worth the trip. Theband had an unusual sound and instru-mentation. When it played softly, it reallywas a pleasure. Mac was just as good inperson as he was on the radio. His drumshad a marvelous sound; they were tuned towhat seemed like different intervals. Heused the set in a most musical way. I recallthat he played a lot of top cymbal, and hisrimshots were clean, sharp, and well-placed. As in later years, he backed theband and soloists very well. He worked tomake them sound good.

"That concept was very much a part ofhim and still is. Remember, Mac is a prod-uct of an era that preceded the emergenceof drummers bent on showing what they

could do. Unlike many of the highly tech-nical, showman drummers, McKinleycombined elements of showmanship andthoughtful, feeling performance. He neverignored his timekeeping duties.

"Gene Krupa, whose technique andattention-getting devices were so well-developed, got the whole 'showboat' trendstarted. I don't want to put Gene down; hewas a great artist. But his effect on the fieldwas not entirely positive. It was a healthything that there were a number of drum-mers around, like Mac, whose workreminded other drummers of what had tobe done."

The McKinley recordings with the Dor-sey Brothers confirm what was said abouthim by those who were there in the 1930s.His time, the envy of his colleagues, flows;he never seems to press or rush. Warmingto the player and listener, alike, McKinleyis not stylistically at variance with mostother drummers of that time. The differ-ence—and a crucial one at that—is that heis consistently interesting.

He makes provocative use of the variouselements of the drumset—snare, bassdrum, woodblock, rims, hi-hat, cowbell,tom-toms, cymbals—creating a rhythmicclimate that simultaneously is stimulatingand comforting. Essentially a two-beatdrummer, immersed in the instrument'stradition, McKinley is basic to the DorseyBrothers' music and its traditional charac-ter.

The Jimmy Dorsey band was McKin-ley's home until the summer of 1939. He

enhanced his reputation with some excel-lent solo performances on record—i.e.,"Parade Of The Milk Bottle Caps"—andwith his usual fine supportive playing,uplifting the ensemble and sections. Theband, however, was not among the best,but McKinley stayed on. Why Mac?RM: Jimmy was easygoing and liked sev-eral things in addition to music. He wasinto golf, for instance; I went for that. AndI was one of those guys, you know—loyal.I enjoyed Jimmy's friendship.

I had a lot of offers from other bands. Iremember one week Paul Whiteman, HalKemp, Benny Goodman, and TommyDorsey all asked me if I would leaveJimmy. Someone wrote it up in down beat.Tommy wouldn't take no for an answer;he kept on my case. It got so bad thatJimmy finally called his parents and askedthem to tell T.D. to lay off McKinley.

Please understand one thing: I knew theJ.D. organization wasn't on the very toplevel. But obviously, that didn't meaneverything, as far as I was concerned.After I left Jimmy, his band got better. Doyou think there's any connection? [chuck-les] I certainly hope not. Anyway, that'sthe whole truth.

Trumpeter Jimmy Maxwell, who was inthe Jimmy Dorsey band for a time duringMcKinley's tenure, provides a view of thedrummer from the inside: "Ray was greatat holding the band together. He wasauthoritative and sensitive. And he reallyknew how to color and fill in the openspaces. Like Davey Tough and SonnyGreer, he seemed to come up with just theright figure and little touch. Sometimeshe'd get into the cowbell kind of stuff thatDixieland drummers favored—'WayDown South' things that pushed the beatalong. But it always felt good.

"Another thing: Most drum soloistsdon't make a hell of a lot of sense to me.But McKinley is an exception; he seems togo someplace when he has the spotlight."

Through the years with Jimmy Dorsey,McKinley continued to develop. Heremained very much a captive of music andhis need to bring something to it.BK: What about the evolution—yours inparticular?RM: Evolution is a matter of eliminationas well as acquisition. I've never sat downand said to myself, "I'm going to improveon this, discard that, polish this, and layoff that." But somehow you do.

Sometimes development is a subcon-scious matter. Other times, it's quite a con-scious thing. For example, when the pressroll was taking hold in the late 1920s, I didmy best to make adjustments in what I wasdoing and learn how to use it. It seemed

such an important innovation. Ben Pol-lack and George Stafford—that marvelousblack drummer who died too young—wereresponsible for turning many of usaround—each with his own exciting ver-sion of the press roll.

When the hi-hat came in during the early1930s and Walter Johnson—with theFletcher Henderson band—and ChickWebb played it so well, I worked hard toget the knack of performing on these cym-bals. The same thing happened when thebass drum technique was updated andchanged—from playing in two and fourwith double-ups, to straight four. I wentwith the flow. I had to.

You can be frightened into modifyingyour style. I remember Stafford did justthat to a bunch of us with his press roll andexciting rimshots on a record he made forVictor: "I'm Gonna Stomp, Mr. HenryLee." Eddie Condon was the leader on thesession; Jack Teagarden, Joe Sullivan, andone or two other fellows who played withStafford in the Charlie Johnson band atSmall's Paradise in Harlem were on it.Those rimshots, in particular, put the fearof God in drummers. I understand that,when Krupa heard that record, he thoughtDave Tough had done it. Stafford scaredGene a whole lot. He told me that.

To be a good drummer, you have tohave that feeling. You start by beingintrigued by "time" and trying to dupli-cate rhythmic patterns when you're young.Then you have to translate what you hearand sense to the drums. It's one thing tobeat your fingers on the tabletop and yourfeet on the floor, but quite another to inte-grate everything at the drums. There aremovements to be made, back and forth, upand down, and across the set. It takes alittle time to learn all that. But once youhave the techniques down and combinethem with an inherent sense of rhythm—Ibelieve you have to be born with it—you'rewell on your way to becoming a gooddrummer. If you don't have that bone-deep rhythmic sense, or "feel," youshould be doing something else. That maysound autocratic. But that's the way it is,as far as I'm concerned.BK: Tell me a little about how you firstbecame a leader.RM: I became a leader—at least a co-leader—in 1939. Willard Alexander, thewell-known booking agent, asked me toform a band with Will Bradley, then

known as Wilbur Schwichtenberg—one ofthe really great trombone players. Will hadbeen doing very well around New Yorkperforming in radio and on recordings.Alexander got us together, and one of thefirst things Will had to do was change hisname. The original couldn't fit on the mar-quee; it was just too long.

I had some difficulty leaving Jimmy. Hekept saying he couldn't get a replacementfor me. Finally, I participated in the searchand came up with Dave Tough. And I wasfree to go out on my own.

The Bradley band was born the summerof '39. The billing— Will Bradley and hisorchestra featuring Ray McKinley—led tomild confusion about who held the reins."But nevertheless, we were partners—co-

leaders, says McKinley. Relatively undis-tinguished for a period of time, the bandbegan to take hold early in 1940 after turn-ing to boogie-woogie during an engage-ment at the Famous Door on New York's52nd Street.

Tight, distinctive, almost slick, eight-to-the-bar arrangements gave the band ameans of linking up with a large audience.In performance, they combined precisionwith all the pleasures of "down-home"pulsation. Not only were they effective, butthese boogie charts provided the band witha rather unique identity.

Without a doubt, the jazz heart and soulof this blues-centered group of musicianswas McKinley. His influence and personal-ity were predominant. Hip yet unassuming

singing combined with stirring drumminggave the music character and a swingingquality.

His sense of rhythm made the difference.It permeated his singing and was quiteundeniable in his drumming. He was thesource of natural movement and morethan a little drive. The bass drum—tunedlow—was his key instrument. He blendedit with the other drums, and sometimes thecymbals, of the kit. Only rarely did hebecome overzealous and a bit too loud.The result can be found on long out-of-print Bradley records. Try "Beat MeDaddy, Eight To The Bar"; it must be feltto be completely understood.RM: While with the Bradley band, I intro-duced something unusual—the use of twobass drums. This was years before LouieBellson had the Gretsch drum companybuild him a set with two bass drums—longbefore the concept became popular.

Bill Mather designed a little outfit forme, including two 10x22 bass drums; Ibelieve it was in 1940. I was withSlingerland in those days, and the com-pany manufactured the kit.

I used the set with a small boogie-woogiecombo we put together from within the bigband. Playing the two bass drums—boom,boom, boom, eight-to-the-bar with twofeet—might have been innovative. But asfar as I was concerned, it didn't work outtoo well. I discarded the idea after a shortwhile. The situation was not entirely satis-factory on a musical level and also made

for added physical difficulty. I got tired ofcarrying around extra bass drums.

The first Ray McKinley band took formnot long after the drummer left Bradley inFebruary, 1942. McKinley put a lot of timeand effort into the outfit. He rehearsed thebest musicians available for several weeksin Patchogue, Long Island—a distancefrom New York City—away from all dis-tractions. Then, he introduced the band tothe world.

Clarinetist Mahlon Clark, valve trom-bonist Brad Cowans, trumpeter DickCathcart (later Pete Candoli) and pianistLou Stein were among the men of McKin-ley. The band was somewhat unusual. Ithad a tuba—played by Joe Parks—thatwas used in a variety of interesting ways,with the brass, reeds, and rhythm. Theband caused some excitement.

But it wasn't fated to be on the scene forlong. McKinley tried his best to keep thingsgoing. But he was swimming against thetide. When he realized he couldn't go on—because of the military's demand for menand growing shortages at home that madetraveling increasingly arduous—he put in abid to enlist the band in the marines as aunit. This last effort, made in hope of keep-ing the band together, didn't work out. Asa parting shot, before he, too, became aserviceman, McKinley called Tommy Dor-sey. He offered him the men he hadremaining. Dorsey grabbed almost all ofthem.RM: After I got my little billet-doux fromthe draft board, I joined Captain GlennMiller in Atlantic City and became a mem-ber of his Army Air Force Band. About amonth later—I believe it was April of1943—we were transferred to Yale Univer-sity in New Haven and really started get-ting the thing together. Glenn brought allhis organizational talent and creative abil-ity to the orchestra.

Very possibly the AAF Band was thegreatest dispenser of popular music ever.Certainly, it was one of the two best musi-cal organizations I had anything to do withas a player. My postwar orchestra, whichfeatured the adventurous arrangementsand compositions of Eddie Sauter, runsparallel to the Miller ensemble when itcomes to general excellence.

Some of our best work was done over-seas. We always wanted to go and finallydid in June, 1944—a few weeks after D-Day. The band was stationed in Englanduntil leaving for France on December 18.Glenn, of course, had gone ahead of us onthat ill-fated airplane, three days earlier.Unfortunately, that was the last we saw ofhim. It certainly was a terribly sad experi-

ence for all of us. We had no idea he wasmissing until the week after the bandarrived in Paris.

When it became clear that Glenn waslost, they stuck me in front of the group.And we carried on during the rest of thetime over there, with Jerry Gray handlingthe arranging and everyone doing his job,just as if Glenn were still around.

The late Carmen Mastern, McKinley'sguitarist colleague in the Miller Army AirForce Band, reveals some of his feelingsabout working with McKinley: "We had agood rhythm section. Mac realized that itwas the section, not any one player, thatwas really important. He knew we had tofunction as a team. A lot of drummersdon't care about the section; they play forthemselves. McKinley seldom forgot whyhe was there and what he should do. Whatit comes down to is that McKinley is a goodall-around musician and performer. I lookback on my experience with the Millerband as an entirely positive one.''

The recordings by the Miller Army AirForce Band on RCA Victor tell us a greatdeal about the McKinley of the war years.More so than previously, he plays with thesections of the orchestra and with theensemble, providing support through keyphrases and figures. His time is firm andoften inspiring. McKinley's hi-hat work inmid- and up-tempo pieces has an unusualsense of freedom and style; the beat isdefined in no uncertain terms on these

cymbals, and it rolls through and movesthe band. His predominant time feeling is4/4. But his inclination to two can be feltand doesn't always allow for completelyhorizontal four flow typical of visionaryswing drummers, like Jo Jones.

Evidence is everywhere, however, thathe is still open. McKinley responds tomusic in new ways and adapts to what ishappening around him. It is equally appar-ent that he cannot, and will not, turn awayfrom his roots as a player. This is not an actof stubbornness. It is merely a comment onhis view of things.

All in all, McKinley was commendableas a drummer and leader in the service. Asthe war was coming to a close, he thoughtmore and more about being a civilian andagain heading his own band.RM: We arrived back in the States late inAugust, 1945. Shortly thereafter, I got outof the army on points, and I began rehears-ing my own band. New ground was bro-ken. Eddie Sauter, an arranger and com-poser who Glenn said was way ahead of histime, wrote most of the charts. Deane Kin-caide did the rest. The players were youngand enthusiastic—guys like Mundell Lowe[guitar], Vern Friley and Irv Dinkin [trom-bones], Nick Travis and Joe Ferrante[trumpet], Ray Seller [alto saxophone],Peanuts Hucko [clarinet and tenor saxo-phone] and Lou Stein [piano].

We got something real good going. If Ihadn't been the leader, with all the head-

aches that go with the job, I would haveenjoyed it even more than I did. But I hadthe sense to know I had an importantband.

We had a few good years. But in the late1940s, the band business started to wobbleand get sick. As a matter of fact, it beganto die. To survive, I changed the formatand let some of the fellows go, shavingdown the band to a size that was "work-able" as far as the bookers were con-cerned. We played a simpler library. But inthe long run, it made no difference.

In 1951, after an attack of amoebic dys-entery, I broke up the band, got off theroad, and took it easy. It was over. Itseemed the right time to work in andaround New York. I did a variety of thingson radio and TV—a DJ show, weatherreports incorporating some drumming,

and several TV variety shows as a leader ofa studio band. Only occasionally did I takea big band job nearby. And then I justpicked up some musicians in town andplayed the easier charts in the library.

The great postwar McKinley band rap-idly became a memory, as far as the publicwas concerned. But those who helpedshape it and the critics who were aroundremember the band with great affection.

Mundell Lowe: "Right after I joined, Iknew the band was going to be somethinggreat. And that's how it turned out. Ofcourse, the charts were fantastic. But evenmore important to me: I learned most ofwhat I know about playing in big band set-tings from McKinley. He had a very defi-nite idea about the function of each instru-ment and how it fit into a jazz orchestra. Ihave to thank him for that.

"And he's a hell of a drummer. A lot ofmusicians I've worked with are wonderfulsoloists; they can play fast and read well.But what they bring to the band and therhythm section doesn't make it. Mac's waywith music and rhythm is outstanding. Italways felt terrific in the McKinley rhythmsection. And let's face it, if the rhythm sec-tion 'works,' then the rest of the band canget on with playing the music.

"In some ways, though, Mac was a par-adox. He hired Eddie Sauter and reallyplayed his music. On the other hand, hedidn't let himself become involved withmodern jazz, even though he had the talent

to play it."RM: I didn't get back into the band busi-ness again until the spring of 1956 whenWillard Alexander talked the Miller Estateinto rejuvenating the Glenn Miller Orches-tra. There hadn't been a Miller Orchestrasince the Estate parted company with TexBeneke in '51. I was asked if I would beinterested in heading up the band. I saidsure, I'd give it a shot and see what wouldhappen.

Fortunately, the band became very suc-cessful. We played Miller music and morecontemporary material. I spent ten yearstraveling. You name it: We were there—Japan twice, all over Europe, NorthAfrica, and boom, boom, boom. Some ofthe traveling was enjoyable and interest-ing; the hard part was the one-nighters onthe bus here in the States. It finally got to apoint where I didn't want to be on the roadanymore. When I couldn't take it any-more, I quit.

Since 1966, I've done some TV, workedfor Walt Disney, made a few records, andtaken jobs that I feel are suitable. As I lookback at things, I'm pretty satisfied. I stillhave strong feelings about music anddrumming. Good "time"—the pulse—iswhat jazz is about and always has been. Iregret that I've never taken drumming asseriously as I should. I never practiced.Perhaps if I had, I would have becomemore technically accomplished. But I'vealways been able to execute what I felt wasnecessary.

"Woodshedding" on a pad can be goodand bad. It can focus attention on rudi-ments rather than music. And that kind ofplaying is about as interesting as a tempo-rary filling.

McKinley's native ability has allowedhim to do what he wants. That he never feltmotivated to move beyond an updatedform of swing drumming is, in some ways,unfortunate. But on the positive side ofthings is the fact that he never lost whatattracted so many musicians to him overthe years.

Listen to the many musical recordingshe has made. The quality remains consist-ent. The best of the bunch, Mac and Iagree, is an album he made for GrandAward in the 1950s, with Mickey Crane(piano), Peanuts Hucko (clarinet), LeeCastle (trumpet), Trigger Alpert (bass),and Deane Kincaide (baritone saxophone).Traditional in format, it draws you back tothe phonograph repeatedly. McKinley'stime is flawless; his playing with and for hiscolleagues makes the music both provoca-tive and fun.

The product of what he has heard, Mc-Kinley credits a number of drummers withhaving left a mark on him. Ben Pollack is

frequently mentioned as a major factor inhis life; George Stafford and Chick Webbare two others who have been important toMcKinley. Walter Johnson offered a fewinsights when it came to hi-hat playing.Dave Tough's work with Woody Her-man's First Herd made an impression. Sodid Krupa's work with Goodman.

Jo Jones is another drummer McKinley"loves." Ray Bauduc had an influence:"He was the first guy I ever heard synco-pate the bass drum." Shelly Manne, JackSperling, Nick Fatool, and Louie Bel/sonare interesting to McKinley—each in hisown way.

The best of the youngsters, according toMac, is Duffy Jackson, the former CountBasie and Lionel Hampton sideman."He's got an ear, a fine sense of rhythm,technique—all the good qualities," Mc-Kinley says. "These are the drummers whomean a lot to me. Certainly, many otherswould make the list if I had heard them.

"As for the rock drummers—some ofthe better ones I've been exposed to dointeresting things with the bass drum. Theyshould be complimented for that. But theydo have a problem when it comes toachieving the simple, straight-ahead, excit-ing pulsation in a big band. Unfortunately,these drummers really don't know what todo. I think they're more lost in this contextthan veteran players would be in a rockband.

"Again, on the positive side of theledger: Rock drummers, by introducing

new ideas and creating interest among fansand other musicians, bring a certain vital-ity to the scene. I must admit, though, thatI'm just a bit skeptical about the sets manyof these youngsters use—all those drumsand cymbals. It reminds me of the drum-mers back in the 1920s who surroundedthemselves with chimes, bells, templeblocks, kettle drums—just about every-thing—and hardly ever played on them.

"If the kids nowadays want to spend allthat money on lots of drums and thingsand not use them, why, that's their busi-ness. Yet it strikes a funny note with me. Iremember one guy in particular. I cameacross him at a Holiday Inn somewhere inFlorida a couple of years ago. He had 13drums set up around him, including twobass drums, snare, two big floor tom-toms,and a bunch of cymbals. It looked as if hewould need roller skates to be able to playthem all. As it happened, he didn't usemore than a few drums and cymbals. Itwasn't anything but show. There's nothingnew about that."BK: Who's the best drummer of them all?RM: Buddy Rich. I've been listening to theguy and watching him since he was a kid. Ifirst met him when he was working with hisdad in vaudeville. Then I heard him withArtie Shaw and Tommy Dorsey. Healways knocked me out. Now he just baf-fles me. I think he is far and away the great-est drummer who ever lived. His techniqueis unbelievable; he swings; he can executeanything he has in mind. He's just got it

all.Yes, Buddy Rich's talent is indisputable.

But there are a number of people in themusic community and through the worldwho feel recognition is due McKinley, forservices rendered to music and drumming.

MD TriviaHere are the answers to the trivia questions posed in January's 10th Anniversary Issue. We've repeated the questions to refresh yourmemory./. On which cover did the oldest artistappear? Name the artist.Answer: January '84; Papa Jo Jones (72at time of publication).

2. On which cover did the youngest artistappear? Name the artist.Answer: January '84; Slim JimPhantom (21 at time of publication).

3. How many artists have appeared onMD's cover twice? Name them.Answer: Twelve artists:Buddy Rich (Jan. 77 and Dec. '80 / Jan.'81)Alan Dawson (Oct. '77 and May '85)Tony Williams (Jan. '78 and June '84)Steve Gadd (Oct. 78 and July '83)Bill Bruford (Jan./Feb. '79 and June '83)Phil Collins (Mar./Apr. '79 and Nov.'83)Bernard Purdie (May/June 79 and Nov.'85)Neil Peart (Apr./May '80 and Apr. '84)

Carl Palmer (June/July '80 and Dec. '83)Shelly Manne (Oct. '81 and inset photoon Jan. '85)Max Roach (June '82 and as a member ofM'Boom on Sep. '83)Freddie Waits (as a member ofColloquium III on Feb./Mar. '80 and as amember of M'Boom on Sep. '83).

4. Which covers have features drumsetduos from single bands? Name the artistsand the bands.Answer: Aug./Sep. '80, Keith Knudsenand Chet McCracken, The DoobieBrothers; May '81, Butch Trucks andJaimoe Johanson, The Allman BrothersBand; Aug./Sep. '81, Billy Kreutzmanand Mickey Hart, The Grateful Dead.

5. Which covers featured drum/percussiongroups (rather than individual drummersor duos mentioned above)? Name thegroups.Answer: Feb./Mar. '80; Colloquium III

Sep. '83; M'Boom.

6. Drummers with what last name havebeen on the cover more than any other?Name them.Answer: Jones:Philly Joe (Feb./Mar. '82)Elvin (Dec. '82)Kenney (Mar. '83)Papa Jo (Jan. '84)

7. Which two covers featured singledrummers with exactly the same name?Name the drummers.Answer:Oct. '84; Roger Taylor (of Queen)Mar. '85; Roger Taylor (of Duran Duran)

8. What young jazz drummer and whatveteran rock drummer share the same lastname, and on which cover was eachfeatured?Answer: Jeff Watts (Sep. '85) andCharlie Watts (Aug./Sep. '82).

MD Bloopers

9. On what MD cover was the artist'sphoto printed backwards? Name theartist.Answer: Feb./Mar. '82 Philly JoeJone's drumset photo is reversed.

10. On what MD cover was a "teaser"printed for a story that was not includedin the magazine?Answer: Feb./Mar. '82 (again!); thestory on Dino Danelli, announced on thecover, is nowhere to be found in themagazine.

11. What bimonthly issue showed themonths, hut not the year, on the cover'sdateline? Name the artist featured on thatcover.Answer: Dec./Jan. ('81/'82); no yearwas shown on the dateline of the RingoStarr cover.

MD would like to congratulate SteveRios, of Rancho Cucamonga, Califor-nia, who is the winner of the MD Triviacontest. In reward for his winningentry—which contained all the correctanswers—Steve will receive a one-yearsubscription to Modern Drummer andan MD T-shirt.

by Chris Braffett

Billy AmendolaBilly Amendola is 27 years old and hasbeen playing the drums for 18 of thoseyears. A native New Yorker, Billy receivedhis first drumset at the age of eight. At ten,he began taking lessons at a local Brooklynmusic school, but found the experience toorestricting and quit after two years. Hisinterests and musical tastes were simplytoo wide for the confining restraints of histextbooks at the school.

At 14, Billy began studying with AlHumphrey (author of the drum book,Para-Rock). After five years under Al'stutelage, Billy started teaching otheryoung, aspiring neighborhood drummersat various local music stores. He beganplaying in bands at 15, at which time hewas the prime motivating force behind alocal band called Gypsy. The group devel-oped by playing a grueling schedule ofone-night stands, and then in 1974, theband's name was changed to Mantus. By1978, Mantus had become one of the lead-ing forces in dance music in the New Yorkarea. The group released a string of suc-cessful and well-received singles, startingwith "Dance It Freestyle," on a 12" disk.During this period, Billy began experi-menting with Synare 3 electronic drums(then new on the market), which he usedwhen recording "Dance It Freestyle."This unique sound soon became im-mensely popular and, for the next fewyears, was widely used by many othergroups. Mantus's first single reached thetop 40 on the dance charts and rose to thenumber two spot on WKTU (then the mostpopular radio station in New York City),where it remained for eight consecutiveweeks.

In 1979, Mantus released its first album,called Midnight Energy (mixed by John"Jellybean" Benitez and coproduced byButch Jones). The album quickly became a

favorite with New York's radio and clubDJs. One cut, entitled "Rock It To TheTop," was released as a single and climbedto the top ten on the Billboard, Cashbox,and Record World charts, as well as manyother charts worldwide. Billy and the bandtoured Europe, Canada, and the U.S., rid-ing the crest of the LP's tremendous popu-larity. The group appeared on numerousradio and TV shows, including Soap Fac-tory's Christmas Special at the Copa inNew York. Mantus's third 12" single,"Boogie To The Bop" (released in 1980),rose into the top 20 and was a pick-hit inDance Music magazine.

In early 1983, the members of Mantusparted ways, and Billy began doing studiowork at some of the finest studios in NewYork. As a studio musician, Billy has donesession work for numerous recording art-ists, and his work can be heard on manycurrent albums and singles. Due to thenature of today's "dance music," Billy hasdeveloped some strong opinions regardingthe electronic element in today's percus-sion.

"At first I was scared of working withdrum machines, because very few drum-mers can keep time like a machine can. Butmachines do make programming a givenbeat faster and easier. What I really loveabout machines is that they give me morefreedom to write and produce. I enjoyplaying the basic beat on my acousticsnare, bass drum, and hi-hat, which Ipatch straight into the Linn. Then I do allmy overdubs with my Simmons drums.That way, I get the best of both worlds.The sounds from both the Linn and theSimmons are incredible, but only if the feelis there. That, to me, requires someonereally playing. I strive to get a 'humantouch' into the music. It sounds corny, butI think that, without 'feeling' from the

drums, there is no 'emotion' to the song."Billy also uses a ten-piece Ludwig drumset,three RotoToms, and both Paiste andZildjian cymbals. However, he empha-sizes, "Drums are drums; it's the musicianplaying them that counts."

When it comes to musical influences,Billy cites Jeff Porcaro and Ringo Starr(dating back to Billy's early days as a Bea-tles fan). He also likes the way Prince pro-grams and plays drums. But he believesthat there is something to be learned fromalmost every drummer. "I've listened to alot of drummers, and although I havesome favorites, I really must admit that Ilike them all."

A Brooklynite at heart, Billy still teachesthere between sessions. Those sessionstoday include movie soundtracks, com-mercial jingles, and both demo and albumprojects for new and established artists.Billy's own personal projects currentlyinclude putting a new band together, writ-ing, and producing.

Of his musical abilities, Billy says, "Ihave received many gifts in my lifetime,but the greatest gift of all was from God:my musical talent. Every time I play thedrums, I thank Him!"

before they can walk really. But I alwaysstress to them that, for any drummer whowants to stay in the business, it's good tobe able to play different styles. If you canonly play in one style and that style hap-pens to go out, or you can't get any workplaying it, then you are in trouble. So thebest thing you can do is learn the art ofdrumming, find out about as many aspectsas you can, and develop an awareness ofwhen to apply the various techniques.

Of course, the hardest thing in the worldis teaching—teaching drums or teachinganything. There's an art to being able toteach people well: to inspire them, to drawthem to the important aspects of what theyare trying to learn, to make them seewhat's worthwhile in what they are doing,and that later on, they will be able to applyit to other things.SG: Can we change the course of this con-versation now from technique in drum-ming to technology in drumming?TM: Yes. I think there are some ratherworrying parallels between music and soci-ety—music always being a reflection ofsociety. The same thing happens in themusic business as happens in other busi-nesses: Technology is being used to cutcorners. A lot of the stuff that drummershad to do was fairly boring anyway. Yourbest asset was if you could play straightand keep good time, because the musicisn't supposed to rile you up or affect youremotions. It's supposed to be digestible—

jingles and so on. There are certain thingswhere you are just as well off with a drummachine. But the frightening aspect is thatso much of the musician's role is beingtaken over by technology.

The pedestrian beat has taken over somuch recently that it often isn't a recordanymore; it's a production. The computer-ized drum sound is so prominent that it'salmost like somebody saying, "March tothis beat." Sometimes the productionoverpowers what's there, so that there isnothing there—just a production. There isa line where it's down to the individualwho can make the machine into art andmake it great, but there is a hell of a lot ofstuff that is all padding: It's just technol-ogy and production for production's sake.SG: But they have to keep on producing inorder to still make money.TM: Yes. It's an industry, and the fright-ening thing is that it's reaching a stagewhere the heartbeat is becoming less. Thehuman element is being phased outbecause it isn't in vogue at the moment.The music industry is extremely trend con-scious and always has been. You know,everybody's using the new "MacphersonD12/47," or "The Motley Brothers" areusing the "Marshmallow CarburatedDX" on their latest album, and it's a hit.So everybody's using it, which suits themakers of the "Marshmallow CarburatedDX"! That's business. So suddenly, every-body's paralyzed into thinking that, if you

don't use it, your sound is dated. Andthat's how the parallel industry grows up.

It's alright for people to use toys, as longas they don't become so involved in thetoys that they lose sight of the object of theexercise. It goes with changing society—the fact that there's no longer a need forcertain things in music. It's the state of thegame. You see, the state of technologythroughout all industry is very much thesame as in the music industry. The sameprinciples are applied. You substitutenotes for numbers. I bought myself a key-board for songwriting. It's got a memory.You put the music down, and it stores it asnumbers. Music is mathematics. Whatcould happen is that we'll get everythingdown on little chips, and they'll be used formaking all music. Then you'll find that, asthere's no work for people who do it them-selves, everybody will forget how it's doneand we'll all have to learn it all over again.

Music's about being physical! Music'sabout playing and transmitting your per-sonality to an audience who will recipro-cate. I'll tell you, I was frightened to deathwhen we did a Rock Palast gig with TheMichael Shenker Group in Germany. Itwas a big stadium that could hold 40- or50-thousand people, and they were havinga week's festival of pop and rock. The firstfew days were taken up with pop bands—most of the big pop bands who are cur-rently on the scene in Britain—and the lastcouple of days were for the rock bands:Def Leopard, The Scorpions, IronMaiden, and many more. The place waspacked all week, and all the rock bandsplayed live to a capacity audience, but allthe pop bands mimed to a capacity audi-ence. That frightened the shit out of me,because these people came to see their popidols performing, and these bands stoodthere miming in front of all these people.But these people didn't seem to care!SG: Do you think the audience realizedthat they were miming?TM: I don't know whether they knew ornot, and I don't think it makes any differ-ence, because I don't think they cared.Generally speaking, I don't think it mat-tered, because it didn't make any differ-ence to the way the show went down. Ithink that rock 'n' roll, in the old-fash-ioned sense, is one of the last bastions forthe live animal—the live musicians' abilityto go on and make or break it by their ownphysical performance, playing together asa unit with a bunch of other musicians. Iknow it's convenient to put stuff on tape.There are justifiable reasons for it, if youcan go on the road and save time and

money on soundchecks—plus the fact thata lot of bands can't play anyway!SG: What do you think of electronicdrums?TM: I think they're great. It's anotherstring to your bow, if you're a drummer, tohave the facility to use them. You can usethem on their own or with an acoustic kit,use them with a sequencer, and play withthem or play against them. I like to makeconstructive use of technology. I've got adrum machine at home, which I use forcomposing.SG: Technology has loomed large on themusic scene for many years. Drummachines and electronic drums are just arecent manifestation.TM: Right, and it has changed people'sapproach to playing. I saw it happeningmany years ago when bands started to usesophisticated monitor systems. You wouldfind name bands using monitor systemsthat were larger than the whole P.A. usedby an average band. Now at rehearsals,you could stop playing and find that theactual onstage volume was actually quiteloud with nobody playing. That was all theelectronic hum coming from the monitors!Then, you get the situation on a big stagewhere musicians don't bother to playtogether dynamically anymore. Peopledon't try to play in balance behind thesoloist. You get some guy over here whojust wants to hear more of himself, andmore of the bass drum and snare drum. Sothe band isn't playing as a unit; the band

members are playing as individuals, eachlatching onto what he or she wants to hear.It takes the dynamic control of the musicaway from the musicians, and it preventsthem from playing together. I believe inthe magic that can be created in perform-ance by four or five people playing to-gether. You can get it so good that it is elec-tric. But that began to get eroded awaylong before the present time. It became abattle with the monitors. It was never acase of "I couldn't hear you properlytonight," but "I couldn't hear your moni-tor," which means that you aren't playingwith a musician anymore; you're playingwith a monitor. That happened a long timeago, and for a lot of rock musicians, itdidn't seem to matter.SG: So what's the answer? Should wecome down to low volumes again?TM: Well, from what I've heard aboutToto, they come across with a bit of a wal-lop, but they don't play that loudly onstage. They're a soundman's dream. Theproblem that sound engineers have is thatthey often get so much sound coming offstage that they find it impossible to mix,because the band members aren't in har-mony with themselves. They're fighting abattle: The singers can't hear themselves,so they turn their monitors up; the guitar-ists are too loud, so the keyboard playersturn theirs up. So the person at the back ofthe hall is trying to mix a battle! Now get abunch of good musicians, like Toto, andthey will play dynamically together. They

develop their own balance. They listen toeach other. That's the art of playingtogether as a band.

Of course, this doesn't work if you get arock 'n' roll dictatorship—some personwho says, "This is my sound" andblaaang, away it goes. If you don't like it,you can join another band. So you're con-stantly battling with volume and con-stantly trying to compensate to keep a gen-eral balance.SG: Are guitarists the usual culprits?TM: [Laughs] One of the unfortunatethings about guitar players is that their sys-tem works by driving it. It's all down to thepower of the amps and the amount ofpower they can use on stage. Unless theycan feel their sound the way they want tofeel it, they can't get it together because thesound's not right. So when that's going on,drummers need to have so much drums intheir monitors in order to hear themselves.Then the guitarists want more, becausethere is so much onstage drum sound. Key-board players can do it too, because theyhave such a broad spectrum of sound thatthey can wipe out whole frequencies. Thebottom end of a keyboard can completelydestroy the bass, and the bass players haveto change their sound completely in orderto be heard. But I haven't come across verymany rock 'n' roll guitar players who arehappy to be asked to turn down. Guitaristshave their sound, and if they are happywith it, everybody else has to come aroundthat.

My own answer to the problem is towear earplugs. When I was 18 and playingin a small place, I would come away withthe guitar still ringing in my ears. Ithought, "If I carry on like this, I'll soonbe deaf." So I've worn earplugs ever since.SG: Don't you lose a lot of the acousticqualities from your own instrument?TM: It can be like that, but halls vary somuch that, in some places, the drums actu-ally sound better if you wear earplugs. Ifyou play in a hall with a really high ceiling,the drum sound disappears, becausethere's nothing there to reflect it back toyou. But if you wear earplugs, you canactually hear the drum within itself. Also,you can often hear the band better. At cer-tain volumes, certain frequencies wipe outeverything, and you can't hear it. That'sanother reason why some bands get louderand louder as the evening goes on. Theybegin to lose the top end, so they put moretop on, and it gets to the stage where youjust can't hear anything. When you reachthat point, the monitors are no help. Thebest thing you can do is to turn them offand start again. You compensate so muchthat you just can't compensate anymore.So by wearing earplugs, I get around that.If you're a drummer, you remain in thesame position and you can't get away froma guitar amp. The guitarist can moveaway, but you can't.SG: So you need a good balance in your

monitors, so that you can relate to every-one else and hear yourself?TM: Oh yes. Ideally, you need a littlemixer and a four-way system, so that youcan balance it yourself like a stereo. That'swhat I do. I have keyboards, guitar, andbass in the relative positions to where theyare on stage—vocals in the middle. I canmake small adjustments myself betweennumbers. It's much easier than trying tosignal what you want to the soundman.SG: What is your attitude toward clicktracks?TM: There are different schools ofthought. Some people swear by clicktracks. If you have to do ten takes justbecause the drummer races, then it's agood cause for a click, but I don't muchlike working with them. I think they inhibityour playing. I practice with a drummachine, and I have no trouble at all. I canplay with it or across it. It's no problem forme. But somehow when you're playingmusic, the emotional response is inhibited,because you naturally want to push thetime forward or pull back on it a little bit,depending on the statement of the instru-ments. If you want music that is regulatedin time, then fair enough. I've played stuff,heard it back, and found it to be absolutelysteady. But there have been many timeswhen people have said, "Can you justpush it a little there?'' They want it to comeup a bit in tempo, just to give the edge to it.

Click tracks that are literally just a clickor a beep drive you up the wall, because ifyou are trying to be totally on time withsomething that is clicking four to the barand you are playing the snare drum on 2and 4, you cover up every other click,which makes it hard to relate to. It's betterto have a rhythm going that you can playalong with—not the same rhythm as youare playing, but a pattern you can playagainst. You can relax with that and feelthe spaces.SG: A lot of the playing you do must bepretty taxing physically. Do you do any-thing about keeping yourself in trim?TM: Yes, I am very conscious of the needto make sure always that I can handlethings physically. When you're in your30's, you have to think about it more thanwhen you're in your teens and 20's. I do alot of the usual loosening up exercises, butI find that the most useful thing for prepar-ing yourself for playing is actually to play.I use a practice kit at home and have myregular workouts on that to make sure thatI stay in form.SG: Have certain musical situations beenphysically harder than others?TM: The hardest I've ever worked was

with Rory Gallagher. His sets were usuallytwo hours, but they often went up to twoand a quarter or two and a half. I play witha lot of energy anyway and I can't changethe way I play, but with him, because mostof the material was fairly up-tempo, high-energy stuff, it really was a hard, physicalgig to do. When I first joined Rory, Ithought that I was doing pretty well atrehearsals. That was pretty high energy,but I was doing okay and I thought that Ihad it taped. But when I went on stage withRory, it was just unbelievable, because ofthe sheer energy level. I came off a nearphysical wreck. My hands were bleedingand everything! It was the first time he hadplayed in public for some time, and wewere doing an open-air festival near hishometown in Ireland. They were filming it.It was a big occasion, but I just wasn't pre-pared for the energy of the man. I'd beensitting around with headphones on for thelast four days learning new material. Thatnearly blew me away.SG: Nearly but not quite. From then on,there were no more problems?TM: [Laughs] Things still took a bit of get-ting used to. You see, Rory plays to thecrowd all the time. If he doesn't think thata song is going over well, he thinks nothingof taking it up a bit. You need to watchhim, and when he wants to push a numberforward, you go with him. My experiencewith Alex Harvey put me in good stead forthat, because he used to do the same thing.Rory assaults the audience. He's totallycrowd conscious.

The most horrendous night of all waswhen we did a special Irish night at theLondon Lyceum. They were giving awayfree Guiness, I believe! Mike Bloomfield,the guitarist, came on to sit in at the end ofour set. Now, Rory can go on playing for-ever. He'll always push it, do a long set,and give the crowd their money's worth.But that night when Mike Bloomfield cameon, the two of them went on and on andon! You know how it is; you gear yourselfto doing a two-hour set. You give it hell tostart, and then as you get into the set, youbecome composed and sit in the middle ofthe beat for a while. Then, you take it up abit before stopping for the acoustic spot,and when you come on again, you take itup all the way, building it up to the end.Then, you give it your best shot at the end.You really go for it. That's the climax.And then Mike Bloomfield comes on, andyou've just fired all your arrows, right?Okay, an encore—that's fair enough, but Inearly died. I had cramps and everything,just from playing that long, [laughs]SG: Okay, well, having talked about the

drummer, perhaps we could talk about thedrums?TM: Right. I use a Pearl kit. The hangingtoms are 8", 10", 12", 13", 14", and 15"—all power sizes. Floor toms are a 16" andtwo 18"s. I've got two 24" bass drums. Iuse either an 8 1/2" metal-shell snare drumor a 6 1/2". Sometimes I use two snaredrums; one is in the usual position betweenthe bass drums, and the other is to the leftof my left leg. This means that I can havean alternative snare drum sound, or I canswivel around and play the left-hand bassdrum with my right foot and still have asnare drum between my legs. I have one ofthe floor toms over on the left. The idea isthat I can have a different snare sound, andI can concentrate on the small toms to theleft of the kit, giving myself an alternativekit with a different set of sounds.SG: What about the hi-hat?TM: The hi-hat stays where it was. I use aclutch, so that it drops down and staysclosed.SG: What heads do you use?TM: Pinstripes for batter. I've got somesingle-thickness heads on the bottom at themoment. They are black to match the kit.SG: Cymbals?TM: All Sabian. I usually use the hand-hammered ones for recording. They aresensitive with a soft, swelly sound. I usedthem first on Michael Shenker's AssaultAttack album, and they sounded reallybeautiful. But unfortunately, they are notmeant to be whacked; you don't get thebest out of them if you hit them hard. So Iuse the medium and heavy AAs for livework. Really, I've got two complete sets.The sizes I use are 14", 16", 17", 18", and20" crashes, and 20" and 22" rides. Forrock, I generally use a 22" heavy ride,which gives a clear sound and doesn't buildup. I've got two 22" swishes. They areChina Types with rivets, and I also have an18" China Type without rivets. For hi-hats, I use either 14" Flat Hats, 14" HH, or15" Rock Hats. I use whatever seems rightfor the job; I change all the cymbalsaround.SG: There's a limit to the amount of stuffyou can have around you in comfortableplaying positions.TM: Yes. The original military-grip styleof playing developed from marchingdrums, and kit players used to set up theirgear with the snare drum sloping from leftto right, and everything except the hi-hatto the right of it. But I think that the ambi-dextrous style that has been pioneered bypeople like Billy Cobham and Simon Phil-lips is great; it's the natural way to play. Itgives you so much scope physically. I prac-

tice left-hand lead, but I think I've beenplaying right-hand lead too long. I can'tseem to get the same amount of convictionthe other way around. It would take a bitof work—in fact, a lot of single-mindeddedication—to really get that off well. Ithink I could do it, but my thoughts are inanother direction just at the moment. I'minterested in trying out the new double bassdrum pedals though. You can align the kitdifferently, you aren't restricted by thespace between the bass drums, and yet,you still have the facility of a bass drumpedal for each foot. I'm also interested inthe idea of a hi-hat stand that works on acable, so you can have the cymbals on yourright and the pedal on your left. This couldmean that you can play right-hand lead onthe hi-hat without having to cross yourarms. It could save hours of trying to learnto play the other way around.SG: You said just now that your thoughtsare in another direction at the moment.What did you mean by that?TM: When I left Michael Shenker, the firsttemptation was to join another band. Butat this stage in my career, I've worked withdifferent people and seen how it can workfrom different points of view. I think thatto commit to a band wouldn't be the rightthing to do, because I know all the thingsthat can go wrong with bands. I've livedinside bands for 15 years, and I know allabout the chemistry—the personality

problems—that can go down when youknow that you are okay, but somebodyelse in the band just might go on stage andthrow a wobbly one. It's like a marriage:You've got to contend with other people'spersonalities all the time. When I startedwith Alex, I was down at the other end ofthe scale from him, but the lessons I'velearned in subsequent bands have broughtme to the conclusion that I've experiencedenough. Now I want to do what I know isreal.

I'm now writing my own material, andI'm co-writing with my cousin Hugh andsome other people. I want to gather mate-rial that I like, and that says what I feelabout the whole thing and the way thingsshould go.SG: Can you define that?TM: Well, I think I learned the bones of itin The Alex Harvey Band. It was a nearlyperfect chemistry of five musicians beingable to work together. Okay, it was some-times lunatic and it wasn't always rosy,and sometimes it was really rough, butmost of the time it was magical—incredi-ble. I've never been in a situation like thatwith any other band I've been in, and Ithink that the only way I'll get it again is towrite my own material. I've reached thepoint where I think that the only way I'mgoing to be happy as a musician is to takesomething and work it myself—play rockthe way I think it should be played.

by Rick Van Horn

Embracing TechnologyI recently had the occasion to attend amajor music trade show and to view thenewest items that the percussion industryhas to offer to the professional drummer.While many of those items involvedimprovements or new models within famil-iar lines (drumsets, individual drums, andaccessory items), much of the showinvolved items based on technology only afew years old. And a lot of those itemsoffer some serious appeal to a club drum-mer.

"Now hold on," you say. "What are wetalking about here? Technology? Nothanks! I don't want anything to do withelectronic drumkits!" Hold on yourself, Isay. While electronic drumkits are still avery visible item, they certainly aren't theonly technological advances to come alongin the last few years. Modern technology,in the form of new materials, new designs,and new approaches to creating percussionsounds and equipment, has created awealth of new tools for the working drum-mer. And like every other type of tool,each of those is right for a certain job. Allyou need to do is decide what job needs tobe done, and then select the right tool to doit. Let's look at a few examples.

1. Want to improve your acoustic drumsound? If you are a purist, and you want tostay with totally acoustic drums, you canenhance their sound by mounting them onRIMS. MD has advertised RIMS for sev-eral years now, and they've been reviewedin the Product Close-Up column. Speak-ing from personal experience, as well asfrom conversations I've had with manyother drummers, I can say that they con-tribute tremendously to the output of anygiven drum, no matter what its brand. Andthe nice thing is that they don't cost an armand a leg. Years of research into acoustics,metallurgy, rubber chemistry, physics,and engineering went into the developmentof the RIMS system, and all that technol-ogy has resulted in a product that reallycan make a difference.

In addition to the RIMS system, recentyears have seen tremendous advances indrumheads (synthetic heads, Fiberskyn,PTS, etc.) that can be experimented with inorder to obtain desired acoustic sounds.Drum muffling devices have come a longway as well, and now offer the drummerquick and easy methods of obtaining as lit-tle or as much muffling as desired. Again,these items are low in cost, but can beemployed in a wide variety of ways in orderto achieve any desired sound.

2. Want simpler amplification for youracoustic drums? If your band plays loudenough to require amplification of thedrums, there are now many different mik-ing systems for you to choose from. Manymicrophone companies have improved thefidelity of their stock units and beefedthem up to take the "punishment" ofdrum miking. Others have gone even fur-ther, dedicating the entire design of thesystem to drum miking applications. Anotable example is the May-EA system,which places Shure and/or AKG mic's per-manently with a drum's shell. That systemhas now been improved to allow perma-nent in-drum mic' mounting without drill-ing holes in the shell.

Other in-drum systems are offered by C-T Audio (the C-Ducer tape mic') and Bar-cus-Berry (transducer/trigger and electretcymbal mic'). Both brands offer double-duty capabilities to both mike the drumand act as a trigger for electronic drum"brains."

Realizing the need for compact externalmiking, companies like Shure, Fender,Countryman (Isomax), and others haverecently created mini- and sub-miniaturemicrophones specifically with drums inmind. Coupled with mic'-stand innova-tions, such as LP's Claw or the HardyStand-Off, a drumset can be miked unob-trusively and with a minimum of addi-tional hardware on stage. To club drum-mers, who almost always suffer from aspace problem, all of these new miking sys-tems have a great deal to offer.

3. Are you a singing drummer? Whilewe're on the subject of microphones, let'snot forget the technological advances thathave been made recently in the field ofheadset systems. Shure got it started withits SM-10/12/14 series a few years ago. It'simproved its own products, and now offersthe SM-1 and SM-2 headsets, with bettermic's and monitor earphones. Other com-panies, like Nady and Sony, now offerheadset mic's, and Krauel offers an excel-lent headphone monitor system that isespecially good for practicing with (or pre-cuing for live use) electronic systems. Asdrummers get more and more involvedwith sophisticated sequencing as well asvocalizing, headset mic'/monitor systemsare going to become more and more preva-lent, even at the club level.

4. Want to enhance your visual appeal?In only the last two years, percussion tech-nology has exploded with colors and othervisual-appeal developments. There are

now colored cymbals, sticks, heads, beat-ers, cowbells, and in some cases, hardwareas well. You can get sticks that glow in thedark or sticks that have lighted tips. Theincorporation of lighting is now becomingmore common, and some companies offertriggering devices to allow drummers toactivate lighting systems simply by play-ing. Drumming is more and more a visual,as well as musical, activity, and with clubgigs getting scarcer, it behooves everyworking drummer to take advantage ofthis particular aspect of technology inorder to maximize his or her marketability.

5. Want to protect your equipment bet-ter? Recent advances in synthetic materialsresearch have led to improved drum cases,bags, and other protective devices. Fromthe lowly stick bag to the multiple-drumrolling ATA case, percussion protectionequipment today is better than it's everbeen. At every budget level, there is nowsome means of protecting the equipmentthat's so vital to your livelihood. Just as anexample, if you play for long periods in agiven club, what about protecting yourequipment from dust and dirt while onstage? Most drummers drop a sheet overthe drums, and either remove the cymbalsor try to drape them as well. A new productcalled Cymbal Sox is available now to pro-tect each cymbal individually. It's simple,inexpensive, and very functional. There'salso a Cymbal Garter for use as a mufflingdevice on a cymbal when practicing. I men-tion this particular product here simplybecause it's a classic example of a simplesolution to a nagging problem, which ishow most of the best technology is devel-oped.

6. Want to improve your health andcomfort? Research into the acoustics andhealth of the human ear has led to better,more comfortable ear-protection devicesfor use by musicians working in extremelyloud environments (which these daysmeans just about anything other than agarden party). The adaptation of existingtechnology to a special applicationrecently led to the introduction of the Pro-Fan 707, an extremely small, but powerfuland safe, personal fan designed to clamponto a drumset. The Pro-Caddy Rax rec-ognizes the drummer's need for a drinkand a towel within easy reach. Drumthrones incorporating better padding andhydraulic height control have been intro-duced in recent years. All of these itemscan make a club drummer's work less tedi-ous and more comfortable over the "longhaul." continued on page 102

RIMS Headsetby Bob Saydlowski, Jr.

Back in my first review of Remo PTS prod-ucts (Dec. '82), I commented that perhapssomebody would find some way to use thePTS heads alone as musical instruments.My crystal ball was right. The RIMS Head-set utilizes Remo's PTS drumheads alongwith the RIMS Mounting System to createa totally portable, shell-less drumkit. Twoconfigurations are available—a three-pieceand a four-piece setup. The four-piece kithas 10", 12", and 14" toms, plus a 20" bassdrum. There is no snare drum included,but the kit does include two built-on cym-bal holders.

The RIMS concept, when used on con-ventional drums, gives a drum the freedomto resonate by suspending it. A steel stripextends halfway around the drum, and it isconnected to the drum by flanges, whichaccept the drum's tuning rods, allowingthem to rest on vibration-isolating rubbergrommets. A steel plate attached to thestrip then connects with the drum's mount-ing bracket. On the Headset, this concepthas been modified a little to suspend PTSheads alone. Since there are no drum rods,the pre-tuned heads are mounted with rub-ber hook clamps. (The bass drum has six ofthese clamps, while the toms have four sus-pension clamps.)

The framework for the Headset is builtaround the bass drum, which is a coated20" PTS Dark head, mounted in a blackRIMS suspension. The head has its ownbuilt-in hoop for pedal mounting and is setup so that the beater strikes the smoothbackside of the head, rather than thecoated side. A strip of felt is taped on near

the bottom of the playing side to give somedegree of dampening. On the sides of thebass drum are four steel legs, bent into 45°angles and set into Omni-Clamps. The legsare adjustable for height and span withinthese clamps, and they hold the bass drum(and the entire kit) in position quite well.To further reduce creeping of the kit, anadhesive non-skid pad is supplied for useon the bottom of your bass drum pedal.

Atop the bass drum RIMS mount is aholder bracket for the 10" tom-tom arm topass through. This tubular arm uses a con-cealed-ratchet angle adjustment, is securedin the bracket by a key screw, and hasmemory locks on both ends. The same typeof holder bracket is used on the tom-tom'sRIMS support. In certain setups, this armmay be too long—interfering with thebeater area of the bass drum—so the tubemay have to be cut.

Numerous Omni-Clamps are attachedto the bass drums RIMS support. Thesehold the four legs as mentioned before, theother two tom-toms, and two cymbal hold-ers. The clamps have two openings and aretightened down by hand-size knobs. Theyallow for full height adjustment andspread of all the Headset componentattachments.

The 12" and 14" tom-toms fit into theirown Omni-Clamps, and each has its ownRIMS suspension with holder bracket andholder arm. They are set up from the rightside of the kit, and can adjust for height,angle, and spread. The four-piece Headsethas two telescoping cymbal arms set intoOmni-Clamps. These have concealed-ratchet action cymbal tilters, as well asratchet angle adjustments near their bot-toms for tilting and positioning the entire

cymbal arm either away from or closertowards the kit. (I'd personally like to seeanother angle ratchet near the top of thecymbal holder for angling the cymbal intothe kit, after positioning it away with thebottom ratchet—something like Yamaha'sdog-bone style cymbal holder.) Anyway,these cymbal posts allow ample height andare sturdy.

Upon setting everything up, what youhave is a four-drum, two-cymbal kit thatcan be picked up with one hand! One of myfavorite features of the Headset is that thewhole thing folds up compactly into a7" x 28" foam-filled fiber case! This meansthat you can move your entire kit into thegig in one trip: One hand carries the Head-set, and the other carries your trap case(holding your snare drum, snare and hi-hatstands, pedal, seat, sticks, and cymbals).The four-piece Headset weighs in atapproximately 40 pounds when packed upand can be transported along with a trapcase in almost any automobile trunk.

You're probably asking, "Well, how dothey sound?" The answer is: quite good!Since the PTS heads themselves have abuilt-in pitch, there is no capability forvarying the tuning of each drum, short ofchanging the PTS heads to another pitchtype. From what I can tell, the heads sup-plied are all of the PTS Mellow category,so that gives you the leeway to change toeither Brights for a higher pitch or Darksfor a lower pitch. The secret to the soundlies in the RIMS system and in the rubberclamps. The drums produce a clear tonalpitch with good volume. The smallerdiameters approach the sound of timbales,perhaps, with their wide-open resonance. Ifound that a wooden beater works bestwith the bass drum to get a punchy sound,without as much "flap." In certain playingsituations, a more muted tom-tom sound isnecessary. I tried some clamp-on external

mufflers and found they choked off the res-onance too much. Some strategicallyplaced pieces of tape on the head surfacesseemed to accomplish what I was lookingfor—giving more "thud," while stillretaining the head's natural clarity.

I'm fascinated by the concept of theRIMS Headset, and I'm sure the manufac-turer will find ways to improve it evenmore. As it stands, it's a good-sounding kitand ideal for those casual one-nighter gigs.The Headset is tops in portability by far,and I applaud any manufacturer thatwants to make our drumming life easier.The three-drum setup retails at $475; thefour-piece setup retails at $575. An Anvilfiber case is available at $75, and a democassette of the kit is free for the asking. Formore information, write: Purecussion,5957 W. 37th Street, Minneapolis, MN55416.

7. Want more durability from your"expendable" items? Traditionally,sticks, heads, and to a lesser degree, cym-bals constitute the greatest portion of adrummer's overhead. Once a kit is pur-chased, chances are it's going to be aroundfor several years. But sticks and heads cango on a nightly basis. Faced with this prob-lem, the industry has employed chemicalengineering to come up with syntheticsticks, such as those from Aquarian, Riff-Rite, and Polybeat. Additionally, woodlaminates have been used to create moredurable wood sticks. Drumheads of Kevlarwoven fabric and also of fiberglass areavailable. And the cymbal makers haveanswered the need for more durable cym-bals by offering heavier, less breakablecymbals that still retain a musical charac-teristic. Drum equipment technology hasprobably seen more development in thisarea over the past ten years than in anyother, with the exception of electronics.

8. Want more portability from your kit?See Bob Saydlowski's Product Close-Upof the new RIMS Headset in this issue. Ifyou play casuals regularly, or if you playclubs with tiny stages or difficult loadingaccess, this may be the answer to yourprayers. And if you think it may not havethe projection or sound you require for alouder gig, don't discount it completely;consider it in combination with triggeringdevices hooked to an electronic "brain."You might be able to produce virtually anydrum sound you care to through your

sound system and still have a very smallamount of equipment to carry around.This type of thinking is pretty radical, butradical technology often proves the mostbeneficial in the long run.

9. Want to incorporate electronics grad-ually? Since we've introduced the subjectof electronics, let's close with it. Obvi-ously, it's a major ingredient in the musicmost club bands are playing. Today's tech-nology offers many ways to approach it,short of converting to it entirely, which Icertainly don't recommend to any clubdrummer. If you want to combine elec-tronics with your acoustic drums, you canadd any of the single-pad units, such as theSimmons SDS1 or Drum-FX2 by JTG ofNashville. Recent innovations from boththese companies (as well as some outsidefirms) offer multiple-chip switchingdevices, so that although you only use onepad, you can select from several soundchips instead of having to insert a new chipfor each sound. Another way to blendacoustic and electronic sounds is to triggeran electronic "brain" from the acousticdrums, using internal mic's such as thoseI've already described, mic' interfacedevices such as the MX-1 by Marc, or con-tact triggers, which are offered by severalcompanies (and which you can build your-self fairly inexpensively. I know of oneclub drummer who made a perfectly func-tional electronic pad drumkit by combin-ing several homemade contact triggers anda Remo practice pad kit.) Several compa-

nies, notably Barcus-Berry and The MusicPeople, Inc. (Drumfire), offer very smallpads that can be mounted along withacoustic drums without much additionalspace being taken up. The Shark and theDrum Workshop EP-1 offer access to elec-tronics via your feet, without requiring anyform of drumpad whatever.

The point I'm making with this list isthat embracing new technology need notinvolve the sacrificing of one's musicalprinciples or the expenditure of thousandsof dollars. It can, in fact, mean only thesimple examination of your needs and a bitof research into what is on the markettoday to meet those needs. Back in July of1982, I did a column called "TakingStock," in which I encouraged club drum-mers to re-evaluate their setups, theirchoice of equipment, and their personalapproaches to playing. With the incredibleadvances in drum-related technology thathave taken place since that time, I defin-itely think it's time to "take stock" again.

Note: In my column entitled "On TheRise: Part 1'' last January, I said that therewere no drum risers commercially avail-able. The Humes & Berg Company of EastChicago, Indiana, makes a line of bandand choral risers that can be employed asdrum risers. They are of the folding-tabledesign I described in my column, and a4' x6' x16" riser lists for $199.00. Forfurther information, contact them at 4801Railroad Avenue, East Chicago, IN 46312.

HOHNER, SONOR, SABIANFORM JOINT VENTURE

Hohner Inc. of Richmond, Vir-ginia, and Sabian Ltd. ofMeductic, New Brunswick,Canada have announced theformation of a division to mar-ket and distribute Hohner,Sonor, and Sabian profes-sional-level musical instru-ments throughout the U.S.Horst Mucha, president ofHohner Inc. and Robert Zild-jian, president of Sabian Ltd.,stated that the new companyresulting from their joint ven-ture will be named H.S.S., Inc.and will be headquartered inRichmond, Virginia. H.S.S.,Inc., will be under the directionof Karl Dustman, ExecutiveVice President and GeneralManager, with shipping pointsin Ashland, Virginia, and SanJose, California. Products tobe marketed by H.S.S., Inc.

will include Sonor acoustic andelectronic drums, Pro I drum-sets and hardware, and Sabiancymbals. The company willalso distribute Remo heads, VicFirth and Pro Mark drum-sticks, and Calato products.

In addition, Robert Zildjianhas announced the opening of anew U.S. sales company calledSabian Inc. This new companywill be the sales and promotionarm of Sabian Ltd., and willmaintain offices in Hanover,Massachusetts, and North Hol-lywood, California. SabianInc. will be responsible forongoing corporate sales in con-junction with H.S.S., Inc., andwill provide support for dealerservice, promotion, and com-munications, as well as endors-er and drummer specializedservices.

LP TAKES ON NEW IDENTITYFor over a quarter of a century,LP has stood for quality in per-cussion. Since 1980, LP hasembraced drumsets through itsCosmic Percussion brand, sup-port systems through its Sus-penders line, and most recently,electronics with Compton Elec-

tronics. To better describe whatthe company is all about, LPhas taken on the umbrella nameof LP Music Group covering allthese new directions. The com-pany believes that it will beinvolved in all significant areasof music from now on.

DRUMSET WORKSHOP TO BE HELD IN JUNEThe seventh annual SummerDrumset Workshop will be heldJune 16 through 20 at CapitalUniversity in Columbus, Ohio.The Workshop is designed tobenefit intermediate and ad-vanced musicians (minimumage 15) and to provide themwith a concentrated course ofstudy covering virtually allareas of drumset performance.

The faculty will include EdSoph, internationally notedperformer , cl inic ian, andauthor; Guy Remonko, percus-sion instructor at Ohio Univer-sity; and Bob Breithaupt, per-cussion instructor at CapitalUniversity. The schedule willinclude private and group les-sons with an artist-teacher (lim-ited to the first 24 registrants),clinic sessions, daily listening,videotaped performances, indi-vidual practice time, perform-ance opportunities, and classes

in theory and history of drum-set drumming. Additionalareas of study will include:sight reading, chart reading,snare drum technique, com-mercial drumming styles, solotechnique, Latin accessory per-cussion, and independence.

Fees are $225 for residentstudents (includes all classes,lessons, and room and board)and $125 for commuter stu-dents (includes all classes andprivate lessons). A $50 depositis required for registration andmust be received by May 30.The Summer Drumset Work-shop receives support from theYamaha Drum Company andthe Avedis Zildjian Company.For more information, contactBob Breithaupt, Assistant Pro-fessor of Music-Percussion,Capital University, Columbus,Ohio 43209, or call (614) 236-6234.

DINAH GRETSCH NOW ARTIST ENDORSEMENTDIRECTOR

Dinah Gretsch has assumed fullresponsibility and authority forthe administration and futureplanning of all Gretsch ArtistEndorsement Programs. En-dorsing artists and Friends-Of-Gretsch participating artistspresently number 85 popularmusicians. Several are interna-tionally known, and all areexceptional talents who haveearned a high degree of popu-larity.

"In January of 1985, whenwe announced our acquisitionof the Gretsch Company, wesaid we were very pleased tohave it back in the familyagain," states Fred Gretsch,President. "And, it seems veryappropriate to now haveDinah—one of the family—

closely associated with ourongoing, important artist-sup-port programs." At the recentPercussive Arts Society Inter-national Convention in LosAngeles, 24 of Gretsch's en-dorsing artists met with Dinahand with each other. SaysDinah, "It was a unique occa-sion; you just knew that thekind of concentration of strongtalent that we had there doesn'toften happen. Their vitality,and the vitality our peoplehave for making Gretschdrums, are closely related."

Dinah Gretsch is ExecutiveVice President of Fred GretschEnterprises, Inc., as well as afinancial specialist. She is alsoMrs. Fred Gretsch.

PHIL COLLINS HEADS LIST OF NOBLE & COOLEYARTISTS

Phil Collins, noted solo artistand drummer for Genesis,heads a list of drummers cur-rently using Noble & Cooleysnare drums, either full-time orfor special performance needs.That list includes KennyAronoff, Larry Bunker, PeterErskine, Larrie Londin, JoePorcaro, Prairie Prince, John"J.R." Robinson, SteveSchaeffer, Everett Silver, SteveSmith, and Paul Wertico.

"Obviously, we're thrilled,"says Noble & Cooley SalesManager Jonathan "Jay"Jones. "If we've come this farin 18 months with just snaredrums, just think where we'llgo this year with the addition ofour new Classic SS drumsets."For more information regard-ing Noble & Cooley artists,write Noble & Cooley, ArtistRelations Department, WaterStreet, Granville, MA 01034.

DEJOHNETTE CONCERT AND CLINICJack DeJohnette, multi-direc-tional drummer, pianist, andcomposer, will be in residenceat the University of Arkansas atLittle Rock on April 27 and 28,for a concert and clinic. De-Johnette's appearance is spon-sored by Sonor Drums (forwhich he is now endorsing theSonorlite line), the National

Endowment for the Arts, andthe Donaghey Foundation.U.A.L.R.'s Little Rock JazzMachine and Latin PercussionEnsemble will join DeJohnettefor the concert. For additionalinformation, please contactAllen Kelly, U.A.L.R., MusicDepartment, 33rd & UniversityAve., Little Rock, AR 72204.

LONDIN, KRAMER, AND OTHERS JOIN PEARLPearl International recentlyannounced that Larrie Londin,noted Nashville studio player,has returned to Pearl as an art-ist endorser. Also recentlysigned to Pearl are Aerosmith'sJoey Kramer, Brazilian drum-mer Ivan Conti of Azymuth,and Tommy Dimitroff of the

heavy rock group Heaven.Information on these artistsand their availability for clinicscan be obtained from PearlInternational, Inc., Attn: Art-ist Relations Dept., P.O. Box111240, Nashville, TN 37222-1240.

PAISTE'S LONDON SHOW

What was described as "ThePaiste Christmas Party" tookplace last December in one ofthe University of London'slarge lecture theaters. The eventwas organized by Gary Mann,Paiste's U.K. sales manager,and was hosted by Jon Hise-man.

Jon started the evening bydemonstrating the variouschoices of sounds from Paistecymbals, assisted by GaryMann. To add spice to whatwas essentially the sales talksection of the evening, Jon alsopresented Simon Kirke andJohn Marshall, who sat behindtheir kits and demonstrated thecymbals in a rock and jazz set-ting, respectively. Simon andJohn finished the first set byeach playing a short solo. Thecontrast between the two play-ers helped to underline therange and versatility of Paistecymbals. Simon played somenice, solid, "in-the-pocket"stuff, while John exploredsound textures, and, at onepoint, played a finger cymbalon a tom-tom.

The second half of the eve-ning was opened by someyoung drum corps players whowere the percussion section ofThe Thurrock Marching Brass.It was interesting to see how theprimari ly drumkit-or ientedaudience—who seemed ratherrestless when the corps players

came on—warmed to theseyoung percussionists and ap-plauded enthusiastically afterthey had proven themselveswith a couple of beautifullyexecuted pieces.

Jon Hiseman next intro-duced John Keeble of SpandauBallet, who played a solo andthen came forward to answerquestions about electronic ver-sus acoustic drums, and record-ing and stage miking tech-niques. John was followed bythe ebullient Nicko McBrain ofIron Maiden. Nicko played asolo and then delighted hisaudience with an impromptustand-up comedy routine. Heanswered some questions intel-ligently, but made the mostimpact with his wisecrackingLondon humor.

Top of the bill was CarlPalmer. As expected, his sololeft most of the people in theaudience with their mouthsagape. Many of the questionsto Carl were about his career,but he did answer some techni-cal points as well, regarding thesingle-handed roll and playingthe bottom hi-hat cymbal withthe left hand. As a finale, Carlbrought back Nicko McBrainand John Keeble for a drumkittrio, but he managed to havethe last word himself with athunderous roll on a largePaiste gong. What else?—Simon Goodwin

Wertico And Danelli To EndorseBarcus-Berry Drum Pickups

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Paul Wertico, of the PatMetheny band, and DinoDanelli, of Little Steven & TheDisciples of Soul, are currentlyusing the new Barcus-Berryprofessional drumhead pickup.

According to Product ManagerTony Brewer, Paul and Dinowill be using the sensor units intheir dual capacities as soundreinforcement mic's and trig-gers for electronic devices.

JIM CHAPIN MASTER CLASS/CLINICSJim Chapin recently spent threedays teaching private lessonsand presenting two master classclinics at Drum Headquartersin St. Louis, Missouri. Topicscovered included the MoellerMethod, pull-out accents, andseveral concepts from the yet-to-be-released Chapin BookIII. This event was the twelfthin a continuing series of majorartist clinics presented by Drum

Headquarters in the past twoand a half years, ranging fromlimited-attendance, in-storemaster classes (50-80 people) tofull-blown auditorium clinics(300-450 people). For informa-tion about upcoming events,contact Drum Headquarters,7369 Manchester, St. Louis,MO 63143, or call (314) 644-0235.

NEW CLINIC/TEACHING SERIESBelieving that it is importantfor aspiring professional drum-mers to be exposed to thosedrummers who have already"made it," Dave Beck, ofMom's Musicians GeneralStore in Louisville, KY, hasinaugurated a new clinic andteaching series by top drum-mers. In the past year, the storehas featured clinics with Ches-ter Thompson, Phil Ehart,Tommy Aldr idge , CaseyScheuerell, and Sandy Gen-naro. In addition, Aldridge,Scheuerell, Gennaro, andKenny Aronoff have each spenta day giving private lessons atMom's.

Along with the clinics andteaching, Mom's is trying tohelp drummers become bettereducated about equipment, aswell. Towards that end, thestore has presented a cymbalclinic with Paiste's Jeff Neu-

houser, and a drum-tuningclinic with Yamaha's MikeSwaffer. And finally, drummerswho are passing through town,but don't have time for a clinic,are invited to stop by for auto-graph sessions. Bobby Blotzerand Tico Torres are two of thedrummers who were able tospend a couple of hours at thestore in recent months.

According to Dave Beck,"Hopefully, by attending ourevents, our customers can gainthe knowledge and informationthey need to achieve their owngoals. Also, they can see thatthese world-class players arewarm, caring people, and notsupernatural beings." Forinformation on upcoming clin-ics and private teaching ses-sions, contact Dave at Mom'sMusicians General Store, 2920Frankfort Ave., Louisville, KY40206, or call (502) 897-3304.

P.I.T. ELECTRONIC PERCUSSION CURRICULUMThe Percussion Institute ofTechnology in Hollywood hasbegun a comprehensive hands-on program on the high-techaspects of modern percussion.The six-month course includeselectronic drumkits, drummachines, drum sequencers,programming, sampling, trig-gering, MIDI, time coding forvideo and television, and inter-facing with keyboard synthesiz-ers. It is offered as an electivecourse for third- and fourth-quarter students at the notedpercussion school. Accordingto course creator and instructorAlan Vavrin, "In recent years,there has been a surge of tech-nology in the percussion field.This new form of drumminghas brought with it new termi-nology, techniques, sounds,and equipment. By giving ourstudents a wide spectrum of

exposure to everything that'shappening in music today, weare preparing them ultimatelyto be able to handle any per-forming or studio situation thatarises. Plus, it's a whole lot offun!"

The instruments used for theP.I.T. Drum Tech curriculumare provided through the cour-tesy of the major manufactur-ers. The units currently used arethe LinnDrum drum machine,the Simmons SDS7 drumkit,and the Marc MX] + triggeringunit. To further augment theclassroom instruction, demon-strations, and videos, the pro-gram also features guest artistsand manufacturers' productdemonstrations. For moreinformation, contact P.I.T. at6757 Hollywood Blvd., Holly-wood, CA 90028, or call (213)462-1384

EQUIPMENT IN MD: CORRECTIONS

In our January issue of thisyear, we ran a feature entitled,"Equipment In MD: An His-torical Overview." In the mainbody of that feature, we statedthat the Free Floating Systemsnare drum by Pearl precededthe CB-700 FFS snare by sev-eral months, thereby giving theimpression that the CB-700snare was a copy of the Pearl.Alex Fraser, of CB-700, hasinformed us that the originalpatent was and is owned by CB-700, and was in fact licensed toPearl by CB-700. Both compa-nies offered a snare drum atabout the same time; Pearl'sads simply appeared beforeCB-700's by a few months.

Another section of the samefeature was a "Where Are TheyNow" look at products thatwere no longer being manufac-tured. Included in that sectionwas the Pneumatic Seats AirChair, a drum throne with aninflatable seat. We have sincebeen informed by the manufac-turer that, although the AirChair is not being aggressivelymarketed, it is still in produc-tion and is available on a per-order basis. For further infor-mation, please contact Pneu-matic Seats, Inc., at 5 SouthStreet, St. Johnsbury, VT05819, or call (802) 748-4495 or748-2678.

IMPACT BASS DRUMSImpact drum outfits now offer16x22 and 16x24 power bassdrums as options. The deeperfiberglass shells were designedto produce greater volume andincreased projection, while stillboasting half the weight of con-ventional drums. For moreinformation, write ImpactIndustries, Inc., 333 PlumerStreet, Wausau, WI 54401 orcall (715) 842-1651.

C-T AUDIO DEVELOPS ACOUSTIC PERCUSSIONTRIGGER

C-T Audio—inventor of theunusual C-ducer "tape" micro-phone—has developed a tech-nique for triggering electronicdrum "brains" from any con-ventional acoustic drumkit ,while simultaneously mikingthe drums. The A.P. T. (Acous-tic Percussion Trigger) uses C-ducer contact mic's positionedinside each drum to be miked.The C-ducers are connected tothe A.P.T. electronics, whichprovide four outputs: Trigger"A" (used instead of electronicdrumpads to trigger any of thepercussion "brains"—Cactus,Simmons, Tama, etc.); Trigger

"B" (used to trigger studio-type drum machines—Linn,Oberheim, etc.); and two audiooutputs (Hi-Z unbalanced andLo-Z balanced), which providethe miked, acoustic sound ofthe drumkit at studio quality.This signal can be used on itsown for recording and amplifi-cation, and can also be mixedwith the triggered signal fromthe electronic drum "brain" toachieve an unprecedenteddepth and versatility of sound.The A.P. T. is available in two-and five-channel formats, andis supplied with two or five C-ducer tapes accordingly. Forfurther information, pleasecontact Andre Walton, Presi-dent, C-T Audio Marketing,Inc., at 5722 Hickory PlazaDrive, Suite B3, Nashville, TN37211, or call 1-800-CTAUDIO.

SABIAN EXPANDS LEOPARD AND ROCKTAGONLINES

For the second time in just afew months, Sabian has re-leased major new additions toits special lines of rock cym-bals. The HH Leopard line hasbeen expanded from the origi-nal 20" and 22" rides to includea 12" splash, 14" hi-hats, 16"and 18" crashes, and an 18"

Chinese. The popularity of theline is attributed to the clear,precise stick definition pro-duced by the cymbals, with noovertone buildup, which arecharacteristics produced by thehand-hammering process andthe elimination of lathing onthe cymbals.

Also new is a 16" Rocktagoncrash, a follow-up to the 18"model in t roduced severalmonths ago. These uniqueeight-sided cymbals were devel-oped for the rock drummerwho wants powerful visualsand powerful sound. The 16"model is slightly higher pitchedand brighter than its predeces-sor. All of the new cymbals areavailable through Sabian deal-ers everywhere.

"GLOW IN THE DARK" STICKS FROM PRO-MARKNew Lightning Bolt sticks fromPro-Mark glow in the darkwithout the aid of batteries,electrical cords, chemicals, orspecial equipment. The sticks,said to produce an intenseglow in a darkened room, are"charged" by a few moments'exposure to ordinary incandes-cent or fluorescent lightingprior to each use. The process

can be repeated for the life ofthe stick. Since there is nothingto wear out or replace aftereach use, Pro-Mark believesthat Lightning Bolts are actu-ally very economical to own.For more information, contactPro-Mark Corporation, 10706Craighead Drive, Houston, TX77025.

CLAW SPLASH CYMBAL HOLDER FROM LPLP's Claw Splash CymbalHolder makes possible the con-venient mounting of a splashcymbal, without the need for anadditional stand. The unit ismost often attached to mount-ed tom-toms. Improved fea-tures of the Claw have madepossible a device capable ofundergoing the stress that a

splash cymbal holder faces.Those features include closertolerance pinning and threadtapping, as well as a pointedclamping screw with matching"V" groove to prevent rotationunder hard play. See your LPdealer, or contact Latin Percus-sion, 160 Belmont Avenue,Garfield, NJ 07026.

HENRY ADLER VIDEOParadiddle Product ions ispleased to announce its entryinto the music instructionalvideo market with Hand Devel-opment Technique, featuringHenry Adler. Mr. Adler's repu-tation as a teacher, author/publisher, and communicatoris well-known. His former stu-dents include Buddy Rich,Louie Bellson, Roy Burns,Sonny Igoe, and countless oth-

ers. Hand Development Tech-nique demonstrates Henry'sunique approach, which wasdeveloped over many years ofplaying and observing others.The video runs one hour and 43minutes, and is intended forstudents and teachers alike.Contact Paradiddle Produc-tions, Route 4, Box 269, PoundRidge, NY 10576, or call (914)764-4706.

next month in

MAY'SMD...

CRAIGKRAMPF

also:

TERRY WILLIAMSof Dire Straits

JOEENGLISH

ALEXCOOPER

and much more...don't miss it

Advertiser's Index

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y R

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58,8569,83

638487617080

Inside Back Cover89687196469

798290

Inside FrontCover, 59, 92/93

5184l l48

1031017485

13, 11260,81

56/57, 11190963

50829167

60,6859

7, 10952

46,48,50,52,58,78,80, 82, 84, 94, 97

855

97107

104/1057780

102102

49,72539653

14/1540/41, 99, Outside Back Cover