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STATE OF I1ARYL1\1\D

BOARD OF PUBLIC \'lORl:S

Gov~r~or'sConf~r2nc~RocmStai.,:'-=. Hot1s~"A~naT'ol:...s I 1'1c.ryl-3ndThursday, l,ov"-mh,,r 7, 197410:00 a. m.

PRESr::~JT :

Lt. Gov~r~orBlair L~s III, nr~sidi~g

Eo~.~.J. i1:.11arrl Tat'1~5, fJ.'r:.:.asur'~r

Ho:;.. Lou5_s L. Go1ds<:",i:1, Comntro1L!l:

2. l~::n~i.thnar:1~s, Se.cr-:!t::iry, Budq-:.t a:ld F:..scal Planning

S"rv:\.c=.s

l\:-:dr~..H !!-;.ub~cJ:, Jr., S.~cr-::.tary.

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PRO C E E 0 I :1G S-----------

q~::tlsmsn, th~ 1'l-?,,-tinClof th.~ Board of Public !'Jori;" ,.lill

1,'R. HEt'BECK: Si r?

LT. G0VEP.}!ORLEE, }Iay I havE- your undivid"d

att~~tio~ for a morn~nt.

LT. r.O\Tru!OR LEE: Th~ list of n~rsonal

Natural Tl.q"ourc""s p~onl-E-.

~IR. Bl\PNES: I-1r. Colb"rt of th"'. Secr"tary of

LT. GOVERNORLr:I~: I pant to do th~ lAC first

and erst th,"Tr.out ann hack to ,,'ork. Hr. Car~y a:ld cOIn,any.

1m. CARFY: Thrtnk vou, (;ov",rnor.

\'1~.ar~ hsr~ today to first go ov~r this

maint-=.nancs "urv~y, "l.nd '!r. Fish'?r is hsr~ from th".

Fr~dsric>:, ,.•ho coon1:.'1ate.d it, nroba~ly k"OV1Smor~ ahout it

than I do. So if vou hav~ any questions.

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You will r~call on last P~hruary 20 you ask~d

us to r~insn~ct any schools that had b~en found Door or

fair in th~ sta~s and confirmsd by th" G~n~ral Adius~Msnt

'.:as n:ui tg a f~,.f imnt'ov~M~nts not-ad t a:1d th-sre is still

rooD for mor",.

Of th~ 266 schools I.'hich ,,'<=r~r,,--~v:lluat"2-d

~.s caM"!rac!: I"ith o~ly 23 still in noor condi tio:1. Tpos", .

23 hav~ !''?c.n, th~ sunsrint"'!nd~:1ts we hav." I"orkc.d with

indi vidual Iv . Ral ti.l'lor'? ci ty cam~.oui: th"! Fors~, as could

Th~y nrss~ntly hays $3.5 million to corr"2-ct

th", situations found in t1-1';scl,ools that I.!'?r,o;still ratsd

hull hy tl,~ horns. Popard Count" has corrscb,-d th ••ir

nrohl"'Ms. Prohably ths o:1ly ons l'eft ~hat \oJ€. are not

comnl'?t~lv finishsd on r.edoinq is Prince. Gsorqss. l"'~ ar.:

~..orkina ,..i~h Dr. J!'l.s}:""ll and his staff at th-s nr"ls"'nt tim~..

. If vou hav'? anv qusstions as to ho\oJ it ",as

done, 1"r. F'ish~r could ansl.'sr thoss. If you hav? any

rru'Sstions 0;'\ nrocsdur"!s to bs follo' ...•.•.d \.,ithin th"!: off.ic',;,

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som~ Mon~v later on in the m~gtinq, I hone, w~ will l~ ahle

to qet this material computerized and wade in a more

usable form.

Bad: i,n F'ebru~r'l, you annrov~d a motion to have

this done for a fiours of S28,EG5, but 'lOU didn't indicate"" -

~,pgre _the funds ~'er~ to come from, so today Dr.' Barn.;,>

has an item for the $80,EOO of general emergency funds

for the fac~_li ties inve'1tory nroqram which has b",,,n

apnrov~d hv the data nroc-ec;sinq pro"1,,, and to that, rather

emerq'i'.!1cv funds, if th~y are availabl-a, to pay fox tr,~

waintenance Survey,

The job has be.,n finished and th-a General

l\djus'CI'1i;.!'.tBureau r"eallv should he naid. I mean, "'-0: can

US'S. -eitl1er horro~'ed nonev or emerq-:.!1cy funds, ~lhich'~v."r

you d-"emHould be betto.r.

LT. r;OVER!lORLEE: He al ,,'ays oref-ar to use

c~srat~nqrnon~v'if ~~ hav~ it.

I-IR. r-OLDSTEIN: In ot:her ,,'ords, you ",'ant to

take a GEF'5-C on Dr. Barnes' aqs'1da for the money?

MR. cr,RBY: That $P,0,50~O is for the faciliti'i'.s

inventorv, and I don't know wher'i'. it is in Dr. BarneS'

aqenda.

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DR. B~ru~ES: r.~n~r~l Emsrga.ncy Fund 5-C.

HR. r,OLDSTr.1N: 1:1 oth-ar ,,'erds, by havinq this

rno:1~yyou I"ill 0~ able to k-aep UO th-d inventory a:1.d

d'2.t~rrnin-e ",ho:th'2-r the reoairs and the :nainbmanc''! h"is b-':."!n

acconlplish"d and "'ill 0; accomnlishsd, is that corr ••ct?

~m. Ci\P.F.Y: That is one nart of h:. Th..-;.oth~r

oart, ~,"!. ~'ill also b'i! ahle to €valuat-a. the r'9st costing

m~thod for r.uildinq schools, Wo:will also b~ able to

inventory '10~' ITluchsr,ace, I"'lich ~~r. Hoover has always

}'''!.enon InS a"ld t'1" l""oislatur'i!, ho'" many seats do ~.'" hav",

availahl", to t'9i1ch music and hOI"l'l.anymor'i! do Wo:noi<'i!d.

ssating and hO'1ef:ullv by '"orkinq ,.,ith the Stat~ Dapartm-.;nt

of Planni::1Cl, "'e ~!ill b~ able to figure miqration oatt.,r:1S

in grOl,'th areas. Th'2.State Denartnen'c of 'I'axation and

A!;s"J:ssrn~nt~t\'5_sh~s to us-g the i:lv-entory as ,.;.:;.11as th,~

Stat€. Dsnartmsnt of Education.

It ~dll he th", first comnl",t"!. comnreh,;nc:iv'i!

facility i:1v'9ntory of school buildings in the stat~ of

~!aryland. ":'hat is ",hat the $80,625 is for. I hav,'S ''<r.

Parl: frOM th", stat~ [1~r,artm",nt of !Caucation :''i!rs who

could clar~!'v th~ comnuter ",nd of this boecaus,:: that is

h.•vond ITl'!?,and nr. r!arino, the a':1alvst, the data

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r>roc~ssinq svst",ms analyst "'ork,,,d\'lith us.

~'R. G()LDSTF.Pl: Do you hav-a an aqre~m"nt ",ith

Dr. Sense'1haugh, Dr. Earhart and th~ SU1:";>rinbmdent of

Schools for Baltimor~ City that onc~ y.ou get the system

"'orki'1oths." "'ill coon.;:r'l.t"2.\,'ithit?

MR. CAREY: They aqr~Bd ~ith that. Th~y did

that in the last session of the leaislature.

llR. GOLDSTEH!: In oth"r ~ords, you don' t hav~

disaqr~",mqnt amonq the hierarchy, superintendents?

HR. CARBY: Dr. S'Z.r:.ssnbaughhas qotten tho;;

sunerintendents to aive us 100 nerC"i'ntcoone-ratio;'!.

l'R. (;OLDSTEIll: Can \<2 h••ar from Dr. Earhart?

LT. GOVERlmR LFr.: Como: to the micronhona and

i~8ntify vours~lf for the ~ecord.

DR'. EARlV\RT: Lt. (;ovs.rnor,nemb=.rs of th••

Board, so far as --LT. GOVEffi~ORLEE: You are Dr. Quqntin

Earhart, Dsnutv State Secretarv, Stat •• Suoerintsnd"nt

of Schools. Thank you. Proceed.

DR. El\RJL7\RT: In sunnort of "..hat llr. Car~y

hiS said as far as ".",v.no','th., su"''''ri.nt«ndantsax" in

a0rsement. I thi'1k that is sufficiant.

LT. GOVERNOR LEE: At the end of this s~cond

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surv~y, th~r~ nr~ still ?-3 Duildinqs that ar~ in on~ or

th-a otp?r of th~ b:o noor cat~qories. NOH, ~lho i!" qOi:lO

to nursue th~JTland mak-e sur~ that they ast out of that

status?

1m. CAREY: H~ \o,'ill "'ith our staff. I hav~ the

1etter' h.are from Daltimor? ci tv right no,,', ,d th th-=.3.r

plans and th" contracts ~!ill be announced ann havs h,;,,<n

l-et out. Hh~n rfr, Fish'?r' s cOT:manydid thi s ,"e h~ld off

u:ltil Nov'ember 1st, Th.eir budaet ~,'asn' t du~ until .Tuly 1.

Hh?n it ,-'as l~t out for bid, a lot of ,,'or}::\,'asn' t unrler

contract. At th~ nr~s~nttim~th~y have S3.5 million....I, to correct th~ 16 schools ::':1 t:-tat ar~

still in really Door ,shan-e.

LT. (;OVEP]j()R LEE: J thin1: that 24 school,

!"ysteMs should understand, and I hone you und~rstand,

that this svstem'that you all'hav~ d~vi~€d is in li~u

of a mandatory annronriation for Il'.a::.nt?nancs mon~y

,,'hich tho.y founn v~ry burd'i'.nsoms, and th.~ stat? r,.•ally

m~a:lS bus:':1~ss.

He simnly h'l.v""to hav~ th~ puhlic schools

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l'n. CARry: ':':"1<;B:Brd back ;':1 T'~)'ruary madE.

5.';:v~ry cl~ar, I thi~k I.lr. "oldst"in mad", th"" !'lotion, that

if th~y did not maintain tl-j.~ir hui.1din~ V'.''' ",-ar", not going

-to conti:lUs to fiscally SUDDort th'2.min building n-'!v,.'schools.

I.m. "OLDSTEI:'I: That is th ••.only v..'ay to approach

th~ nrohl"n. I!"re you ar~ sn~nding thousands a'1d ';;hom'a:'lds

of dollars, Hq hav-a nov" alnost a hillio:'l-dollar school

construction nroqram, on-e of the most intsnsiv€ school

construction nrOC;l"'lJ11Sin tho2-:1atio:1. I hav~ r.~'2.nin

schools duri'1g the r"c-ent cannaiqn. It ~s dqnlorabl""

You go 'co ".'ashrooms, ~~O th~ mirrors_off tr."":! ~.!al1s, fauc..;ts

do:'l 't v.'or!:.

old.Tl-j~vare mod-arn schools, l~ss than ten y"ars

I 1':no\"of no sUnerinbmd<i.n'c v"ho v.'ould ~HV'~ th at in

his ov'!1horn~, !Vhvshould he have it in the school? Is

this n~ql",ct a:1d lack of sun~rvision on sono?.body's part?

1m. CA!'1EY:' I v"as glad' that school v'as on this

list.

MR. r,OLDSTEIN: That schoel is on this list.

I \..'as in t'1o::.t school last Frichy. I ah'ilys JT1ak~ it my

husi"l"sS to go i'1 <:.h"!v'ashrooms, I fiqur" th'lt is th,,-

plac~ us~d ~ost, outRid~ of ths cla5srooms. If they aro:!

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not r1qht, th~re is som~thinq wrong with the school. Th~n

I.go to the superintendent's or principal's offic~. That

is usually 5.ntOT) shan~, soft rugs on the floors and th.~ rest

of the building is derelict ..

It is not right. I won't ~it hsre and vot~ for

money to buiId' ns\\'schools in thos-a counti",s unl ass they

take care of them.

HR. rAREY: That is the nurpose. I Hould ~ay

~'e are oetti.ng a lot of support. It is a very tim-:;-consuming

affair on our part. He don't hays a staff nosition «VS:1 to

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ke~n on, this budget. He are '..'orJ.:i:l<j\\'i th them. I cal"!

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only say this: we nicked un ,.:hatI f.ssl are many y,,;ars

of :1egl~ct bv the mal"!dateyou nut out last February, and

I think t~~y at"~ r.~snO!1ninq,'th~ local county qov"'!r~m":.:1ts

ar~ r'€.sflo:1d5.nq.

Baltimorq City is. Baltimore City cnnrovsd

$9 million of canital funds to maintain and imnrov~ th~

school Maintenanc~ nrogram. ~hat is probably the most

th~y have ever so~~tin on~ y~ar.

HR. C,()LDSTEIN, That "'3.S a result of our visit

to Baltimore. r ~~n't ~e~tion the ~chool. I talk ••d toI\ the man who \\'asi:1 chargs. l'ihe,tdid h~ say? You n,msmbsr

what he said. p.~told us the exact opposite th~ princinal

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told us. That ma~ sl~~ns th~r~. ~ats th~r~.

LT. GOVErelORLEE: I have one nuestion for

M P' h . •. t f "._r. .' ~s ~r J us ~ ou 0 cur,.os::!.'t:Y. How many individual in-

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spectors' are ~_nvolv-;>.din m!lkinq this stat~-"dd? surv"'-y?

I,m. rISHER: \'7e hav,," UP to 4() to 50 men available.

Nov, in fact. th9re Here a f"H" more than that this y"ar

~~cause I qat involved myself in insp~cting a few of the

scl)ools.

LT. (;OVF.RNORLI:E: Ho", many end UP ,.,ri ting

the comme~ts for th~ various counties?

IIR. FISHER: Poach In,ln "Trit~s his mID comm~nts.

r~h'~yare r-avi s".1~;!dby a sun~rvi sor.

LT. Gm'F.relORLEE: Tr.3re is a considerabl ••

diff~rsnce in style from one county to th? next, I

!1otic-~d in r~acllnc; ov~r this.

I.m. FISHER: t-Jhat 'our nurnose is. "le hav.~_

held msetinqs on this. In fact many of us insn'?ct-,d th~

schools toa~ther. What you see vou nut do,,~. In many

instances. ,.,? h",ar comm",nts from the custodian or

the nrincinal as to a certain orohl'?m. For instanc~:, "'P.C!u~stion'Sd f1r. lh~t€nhaum, a!1d you are h-sarinQ' som~tim~s

exactlv the co~e!lts of th~ people in that school, not

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LT. GOVr.relOR LEE: I am sure you agree what wa

n~'Od is an e;.ven-ha:1d'E!dtreatm'E!:1tof ths "rhole statd. I

notic~ i:1 som'E!counti~s th'E!tendency is to simoly hav~

straightforward narrative a:1d say thab the school n~eds

pai:1t, or something elss. In other counti~s they ar~

in for some rather fancy rhetoric and purple adjectives

and stuff like that, a:1d if that unsets the local

administration, I can't say that I blam'a th'~m.

HR. GClLDSTEr,: ~'ay I mak" a suqg-estiOllon

that v'?.rypoint? I snoke, to Hr. Car-ay about it the other

day. It would be very similar to what we do with

audits, ~,h~:1the audit is made by th~ legislative auditor.

They sit do~~ with the de;.partmenthead that has b~~n

audi t(ld and revi'E!'"th~ first rsnort. Then that is modified.

I believe a similar situation should ~ake nlace with the'

sun-e.rint'?:nd~nts 5..n 2 3 counti~s. Th~n th"~ \>rording and

the;.annroach, so to sneak, wouldn't irritate them. \~at

do you think of that, sir?r1R. CAREY: You are riaht. This was n~qlect

on my part in not having time to qet together with

them before the renorts qot t.o thsm, b'acause they Yo n'!t.,

it \.,asdone. and they ,,'antedsoma results. He;.we;.rein

our can~tal rsvie.w hudq'?.tsand I just didn't get it dona.

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HR. GOLDSTEIN: Can you accomnlish that in th"

future?HR. CAREY: Th~ first time;' we do that, \oI~ \"ill

sit do\'~ with ~very county and qO over it buildinq by

huilding.

f.IR. C;OLDSTEI!l: If you do that' you hav,," a meetinq

of the minds and you avoid unusual criticism. The

newspan~r dresses it UP more. They make a headlin~.

Then th~ facts aet real hot. They staxt singeinq th.dr

hair and their skin and it.is hard to get them around the

table.

MR. CAREY: I'l'o! \'1;,11 talk to the superintendents

about it.

LT. C;OVER~ORLEE: If th~re are no questions

ahou'e the renort its",lf He come to th,; question of :''lying

for it.liR. GOLDSTEI:r: I move \''': anpropriate

C;O\'FRI:ORTl\l'1ES: Second thE. motion.

LT. GCWEm;ORLEE: !loved and secondsd It.;m

C;r:p5-C be annrov?-d. All in favor say ay'?-. Oopos,.•d.

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HR. CAREY: Ilr. Fisher can get it. 11'8 have one

from last February of $26,665.

LT. C"()VERNORLEE: That cov€rs \"hat?

IIR. CARFY: That covers the' actual surv"!y. That

cov".rs the \"ork that has he's!'! accomnlish~d.

LT. GOVEffilORLEE: Th" thing \"e just appropriated

cov'?rs \oIhat?

~R. CAREY, That covers the ~ext fiscal y~ar.

From last Julv -- we are on~rating in the red now -- from

last July un to ~?xt July, maintai:-:i;'lg of th-e nrogram,

comnuterlzinq all the data on schools, -etc.

DR. Bl\RNES: Th'?re \"i11 be a $52,000 annual

m3i::1t:~n,mc? r".curr"mc". of this from the 1976 budq"t on,

in S)dn' s reQu1ar burtqet request. That dO'i!sn' tallo\<'

him to Cl~~ s~a:"Ct.cad this y"'~ar.. Rath's.r than \olai t unt~.l

next ,July h~ asks for that moneY. The earlier money

the Board annrov",d. The thought was it pas lo.qi timat.~

to take it out of the hond accou:-:t. That \'laS the purnos",

of 'th.s s.tud" , hut since '., cos'~s vou al'out 50 C'i<'1.ts 0:1

a dollar for h~:-:dr10~~Y, I ,"'QuIdhav~. 'to r.~cor:'U":l::;nd that

:..t h~ n3.5..d O~l': of ::h'~~'$m-era'2.;CV fu~d '.d:.::.r.;: "."~ do;)' t. h3.v~

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you more in th~ long run.

LT. GOVr,RNORLET:: You ar<1 talki:1g about thE

20-so~e thousand?

DR. Bl\RNES: Y"",,s. H.s don' 1> hav.;, an i ';:em for it.

1m. CAREY: $26,665. '.i'h" r'cason you d:m't hays

an it~m I discover~d in the m~nutas coming do~ h~r~,

that b'lck in February he made the motion, ev<!rythiuq ~,as

approv.",d a:1d nobody bothered to tell wher.a the mO:1'"-Y~,as

cominq fro!'!. Since it \.,asn' t clarified at that noint,

if it is clarifi-ad at this meeti!lq \.,.,~can save ours,slv'es

50 cents on the dollar.

'.'P. r,()LDSTT:Ul: I mov'? ~,e nay the hill

$28,665 out of the general emerge:1cy fund.

LT. GOVER!lORLEE: Out of th~ em~rgency fQ~d

a:1d not out of hond issue mo~'?y, and if that involv~s

r~scinding any action from last Fehruary --

MR. CAREY: That only clarifi~s it.

LT. r,OVER!lORLEE: .'\11 right.

K'?n, do you "Tant to id'entify this as GEF 5-D?

DR. BARNES: All riqht.

LT. GOVERNORLEE: GEF 5-D.

DR. BARtlES: Roman numeral E.

. LT. GOVEP~lORLEE: Make it E. All in favor

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i~dicat~ by saying ay~. OnDOS~, no.

Pay ~verybody, Skin, and go hack to "ork.

!.IR.CAREY: Thank you, sir.

LT. GOVERNOR LEE: l~er~ is' Secr~tary Phipps?

MR. PIIIPPS: Right here, sir.

LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Good for you. 1,rB you r-:.ady

to com~ to hat for cur mineral rights and things?

DR. B~RNES: Warren Rich, Special Assistant

Attorney General, will sneak ~o this.

LT. GOVEP~IOR LEE: Th.i.sis a hand carried itera.

Do~s it have any idsntification?

;~R. LE~'!IS: !~aY.:~this p-27 on my ag-enda: naa~

117-A. This is not a n~w item.

LT. GOVERtlOR LEE: Counselor, will you

ide~tifv yourself for th~ record?

MR. RICH: \'Jarrcn.Rich, sp'Scial ~ssistant

Attor~1',"YGsner'll, counsel to the D-epartm-entof Natural

Resourcss. Tl'1isitem involv<:.san outstandi.ng ontion

contract made on th~ 18th day of octobtr, 1974. It is

si~ed hy Georaes Creek Coal and Land Comnany, Buffalo

Coal Comnany, 'l.ndit is an ontion for the nurchas-a of

approxiMately 5,('85 acres of mineral reservations

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016 hy g~nera1 ,.'arrant" d"!"!dand in addition to that

approximately 330 acres kno~m as the Phase and Bak~r

tracts o,med hy G~org"!s Creek Coal Company, which will be

CO'1v"!y.~dcy special ~'arrani:y de.ed and also i t ~,i11 invc1 va

the quitcl~im of all other mineral rights o~med hy Georges

Creek Coal and Land comnany under state-o~'ned nrop~r\;.ies,

and areas id~ntified within the perim~ter of the Savage

Riv2r State For~st a':ld also Dan' s ~~ountain Hildlif~ R~fuqe.

t.IR. PHIPPS: Thi s area h<?ra, gentlemen.

HR. RICH: Hr. Phinns is no\., sho~,i:1q you

Exhibi'c 2 ~,hich \.,ill he attached to tha sign".d ootion

contract.

MR. PI!IPPS: The red plus this addition right

HR. RICH: t.lr. Phipps, do YOllhave the ,-"ild1if-e

rF..fuge area?

HR. PHIPPS: This is thq \<.?ildlif~ ar.s.a. Dan's

!.!oun":.ai~ is her-=..

~m.GOJJDS'I'EIN:Goi:1g do\~n from Hidland, just

off to the l~ft. 101e identified that park on top of

that mountain.

t1R. PHIPPS: Hith the 1ittl~ recreation c.;ntsr.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes.

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NR. PHIPPS: 1\1", nlan to nut a swirnr.linqpool th,,:re

this y?ar.

LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Th~ ontion is the shaded area?

HR. PiJIPPS: \'1e already oW:l.that.

LT. C,OVEIUIORLEE: All right.

HR. RICH: Gover:lor, the consideration is

$400,000. Ther~ are 25 days to acc~nt the ootion from the

18th of Octoher and 60 days to close thereafter.

LT. GOVEro,OR LEE: And this ~ould come from

an outdoor recreation land loan?

IIR. RICIl: Y-es, pursuant to Chant.~r 355 of the

1972 laNs, it ,.'asnoted that th-es",funds could he

utilizc.d.

LR. GOVERNOR LFE: This is really a settlem~nt

out of court, isn't it, of a protracted piece of litigation?

HR. PICIl: Yes. I should give a hrief history.

The cas~ comm~~c~di~ 19G5 and ~as to rl~terminewh~th~r

or not th~r-e \ol'=!r"? -e.xistinq strin min-a riahts outstandirlq

on ,.,hatis knOl,m as 'ehe f.1c!.lillantract, ,...hich is the

great hulk of this nronerty.

Chanter 355 was litiaat~d over the cours~ of;

\ the nast two years. It was found to be constitutional,

and it was r.~I:!al1c1edto the c;.rcuit Court of Garrett County

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for th~ sole consid~ration of wheth~r or not the stat~

would hav~ to nay in ord~r to ston all stripping on

stat~-own~d orop~rty.

Th~ issue of constitution~l. confiscation

arose, a!ld it is recomm~nded hy the l',ttorneyGeneral's

Office and hy t'1e D9partrnent of Natural Resources that this

i~ a decent s~ttlement frOM an ~conomic standooint, and

~ill avoid nrotracted litigation and will clear up a lot.

of outstanding mineral rights and title to \-'hatth'5

state o\-ms nov on the surface.

LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Are th~re any further qu~stions.

MR. KICH: I \':ould li}:~to n•..~ni:ion on~ thing

for ~'r. Goldstein. He brought this up sometim.~, and that is

that there is goinq to be a right of first refusal given

for nine-tenths of the oil and gas rights on the subj~ct

Dro~3rtv and neri~eters, and that is included within the

option contr.~ct as nolo',.)orded.

HR. (;OI,DSTEIN: .I have been on ~OD of this

situation for Cjuite a while, Governor Lee, and in vie,')

of what ve have got un there, I feel it is a fair

full sp~ed ahead.(

s-e'ttl-am'9.nt. I thinr. the state should accept it, with

LT. G()'.,7.f:-:R;,J()R LEE: K~o~..,i~q' vou as I do, Louis,

c

19019 if you say it is a good bargain it is a good bargain.

/-IR.GOLDSTEIN: 'fhank you, sir. I move ~le

acc~nt the ontion as outlin~d by ~r. Rich.

GOVERNOR T~WES: I am familiar with it. Okay.

LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Duly mov~d and s~cond-ed.

Without ohj~ction, it is anprov~d.

All right. Thank you, q3ntl~men.

What other late starters do we hav~?

MR. I!ElJBECK: Maryland Historical Trust 'ind

Gen~ralS~rvic~s.

LT. GOVERNOR LEE: We will just go down the list

as it is. The Historical Trust is <It bat.

HR. 'I:OHNSEND: Hhich item is it?

I.!P..LEI'IIS: Th~ first it~m, Governor, is on page

6 of my agenda. It is the COrltract by th-e Haryland

Eational Park and Plann~_:1qCom~ission for th~' restoration

of t~~ I-l.'l.rySurratt House in Prince G~orqes County, and

they are requestinG annroval.

HR. GOLDSTEIll: This is enough money to take

car"! of it?

MR. TOH~lSEND: Yes, sir. Th.er'2is a corr.,;ction

t.~er3, if I miqht. I am ~rthur To"ms~nr1, Dir'i!ctorof the

020 approvogd this nroj Hct. Iva hav>?-recoei v.,d back a d""ed of

-:as.am~nt, Hhich is both accentabl~ to th-e Trust and to

th~ Haryland lla';:ional P'l.rk and Planninq Commission.

I notics i~ th~ a~~nda~~sm,th~ r~~u~s~is for

$(;0, t)oo, i'l.nd I do hsU.';?v<;!that Ii3.ryland ,'latio:ul Ci'lpU:al

Park ~nd Pla~n:"~1qCcn.mif;sion is ~xnfaci:i~q .~c r~csiv~,:that.

it \.:<:.sin fac'.:: to be a 50 perc~nt match. Th~ bid cam~ in,

thq 1m.' b:.d can'O i:1 at $101,346, if in fact I~~ ~J,",ra doinq

it on a 50 p-=.rc',<n';:match. That l"Culd be about $50,673.

20

,\. II :'Jti.ll

increasog in construction costs, and probability of

overruns, ""tc., thilt $60,00n h, r-.<l~.as,"d for this Dro-j-.;<ct.

HP.. LEtHS: No, the r';quest that caM~ i"

indicated 19,346 . 1 think if.th~r~ was any Modification

(

. to this it lvould havs to be done by latt'£:::, and r~vie,,',:d

~y the Denartment first.

If W~ can qet anoth~r letter from th~m, we will do that.

lye I'.'ould the:-J.nroc'?ed 0'1 the 19.

I'R. GOLDSTEH1: I think w;; had hetter okay it

just like 5t is set forth !)er'~. Other"'ise you ar4 "oinq

Board.

nr~viouslv by the Board.

21

I am sure of that.

of granting mon,,:vto privabl' individu'lls and in the

th'2.Comptroller concerning the pronriety and appropr~atenes

l1'\-''l~tim"","''''loave arranaed ",:'..th ~lr. Moss to loan him

HR. TOm:SEllD: At the previous m<'.eting, I

HR. GOLDSTEIN: I mov-e we approv~ th~ item as

1m. TOI'mSr.!1D:Com~ bac): to ths Board.

~~n.!..:':~4IS~ The n~xt itG.Pl, Governor, iRon

GOVERNOR T.l\HES: s~cond'2.d.LT. GOVERnOR LEI;: Duly moved and s'2.co''ld'2.d.

!-IR.I.E\115: Any additional contingency that

of '2.asementf£om Roaer W. Moss. This was deferred

at a prev;ouS m~eting, the r~au~st by the Secretary of

page 124 on my agenda. At the req-aus'cthat ~,~ d",f",rit

!lonsing and community D<'.ve1oPI'1,;mt,to purchase a deed

without ob;ection, so ordered.

Surratt 1!0US'2.OV'2.rin clinton.

s<ot forth on 1')ag~7, for th~ restoration of the r.\ary

~1ou1d increase thi~ participation would come back to th~

to h~v~ some other conting~ncy.021

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022

22

this mon~y on a short-t~rm loan, at no interest, and he

has agre~d to this, and that way th~ proj~ct can go

fonmrd and th~ state ~lill r'eceive its i:1tersst in this

pron.;rty.

~1R. GOLDSTEIll: Th~ reaSO:1 I sugq~sted tha-c,

Governor Le'e, this is very simi.lar to th~ shore erosion,

proqram. l'Jenut un the monev for the pronerty OW71'?rto

protect his or hst:' nroperty on the Chi<saneaks Bay and

tributarv "latoar~.

ov~r s"Zv'~ral y-aars.

It is a free loan. They nay it hack

I feel this is a similar situation. ~fuy should

Iv'?-mak'? an outright arant for som~body to restor~ a home,

th~:1 sell it, a:1d may.e the nrofit and not rtturn it to

the state? I understa~d bv your letter of Nov~m}~r 4,

this nro"sr"..:yis J~nol'm as Pronhscy, Queen Ann'=-'s County,

and He I"ill let this man have $4500.

HR. TOHl'lSEND: Th3.t is corr<:.ct.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: He ~?ill pay it back Id thout

in-C:3rest? .

HR. TOHNSEND: Yes.

years?MR. TOrmSEND: Ten years.

.'•,

,••

023

23

1m. r,OLDSTEIN, I fe~l it is a fair ~laY to do

it. You e~tahlish a revolving fund, yeu qet the old

historic homes or older nlaces restor~d and if th~y

s-;>.11it the state gets th", monsv.

~lR. TOI'iNSEND, Th'l':is right.

1m. GOLDSTEIN, \'18should go on record shoving

loans mads v<;;rysimilar to I.,hatr.~r.Phinps US'9S in

Natural Resourc"!s on the shore erosion projects.

~1R. TOl-mSEllD: This ~!ould be part of tha

easemsnt documents.1m. GOLDSTEIll, Is that agr,,:,eahle?

HR. GOLDSTEI!J, I would be happy to mak" the

motion.1m. LEIns: That would modify this item.

r.m. GOLDSTF.r:~: Yes, sir .. II'!other words, th3t

w~ grant l.lr.Rogsr lloss ths loan of $4500, Inthout inter.sst,

to restors th? nronertv !:nOH'1 as Proph"cv in Qus-.;.n

Anne's County, and that h~ r~nav it in annual installwents

over a t~n-ygnr neriod and th.~nron~r lic-e:1s'= b~

record~d in tho. records of Queen Ann~'~ County,

estahlishina a lien to the State of Maryland.

r,OVERl!OR'I'Al'IES,Th-a renaym",nt program, you ars

(

024

24

establi~hin(J a ten-year neriod for oth"r prooerties or

let ~ach prooerty stand on its o"~?

HR . GOLDSTF.I!l: I think you would have to let

each pronerty. Hayhe ten years is reasonable. Nayha if

it is a r~al biq nrop~rty, i~ may requir? mor~ mon~y.

GOVERNORTlIl'1ES: This applies to the on'" proo~rty?

HR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes.

• GOVErUrOR Ti\NES: I sgcond thea motion. Ok<1.Y.

L'r. GOVER~lORLEE: Does that consti tut'"' an

aM~ndment of what we are doing here?

I.m. LEIns: That \'.'Quld actually disaporov€ of

It.~m D-8. I'le \dll hava to ~end you an amended i t~rn, nev,

It''"?.m.r.'R. GOLDSTEIN: I think tim'! is of the ess:e:1ce.

'rhe man has done MOs:t of th", \'IOry:.

HR. LF.lHS: He call s"'.:nd a new i tern. You can

accent: this motion. N"9 ",ill s~nd you a neY.' lt€m to

cover it as Item D-8.

LT. GOVE~NnRLEE: Item D-8 -- ~hat w~ want to do

is aporove !Ir. GoldstBin' s motion.

HR. LEIns: Riaht.

LT. GOVERNORLEE: Then you can. do the pap~r

"Iork to make it proo"!r.

/\

025

25

HR. LEIHS: Y"",s.

LT. r,OVE?JWRT,EF.: Thank you.

Did you second that, Governor Ta\olss?

GOVERNORT~WES: Yes.

LT. (;0VEP.clORLEE: I'li'thout ohj'~ci:ion, so ordered.

HR. r,OLDS'rEIN: Thank you.

MR. TO"mSEND: Thank you v~ry much.

HR. LEInS: W-=I,lill have D-8 as a disapprov-ad

it'?!'1 on this ag'1nda and I I'lill give you another on",.

HR. r,OLDSTEIll: We accomnlished something here

today.LT. GOI/Em:OR LEE: I!" th"lt th>!. end, Arthur?

HR. 'l'OHi'lSF.ND: Y-as, thank you.

I.'r. G()VER~IORLEE: Th..: sta t~ Board for Community

Col l".g'? S •

HR. LE1'lIS: Tha"t is. aqain on my aqenda above,

It<;m 1.1-7, nags 91, and It£~ P-20, on nage 113. Both of

them COV'i?rthe rS'1uest hy the rtontqomary Community Coll~ge

for the purchase of prop-arty to -astablish a n~w call1pus

at G€-rmantOl'.'11,r.lontqomery County, 11aryland.

GOVr.RNORT~I'lES: I'lhere is the oth.er i t-.m?

MR. LEWIS: Paae 113, P-20.

LT. r-O"ERNOR LEE: 1'7ho is i)oP'!ar5_nq?

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026

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26

NR. S'l'fu,SSER: I aTTlBill Strass-er, Presido:.nt

of 'Nontgomery COTTlmunH:.yCollo=.g-e. Since 1971, th,;, colleg~

has follow~d through o~ th9 allocation by th~ Stat~ Board

of Puhlic Harks for $750,000 to "lstahlish a third campus

for 110!1.tQom'~ryColleQ" in th'a arua of C",rmantOl.m, Haryland;

as th" mat"rial you hav~ this morning indicat~s. w~ are

Dr~parsd to Droce""d ,dth the acquisit.ion of a small Darcel

of land, and to heqin t.h" d~~ail"d nlanning for that

campus.

He have coordi.nated ,dth the count.y nl,mning

ag"'!.ncy, aCld ,.'5.th tho. county council, Montqomery County

!'x".cutive. a~d I hsli6ve dOcuI":l'!nt.s'Chat r.av:; been .t""'.Vi~"l:;d

T~~v satisfy ~hossnarts of th~ local

ftmdi:1Q 'c""a'~vou per", conc.srned about. ~~r. Johnson may

a more d",i:.ail",d au~stion, I ~'ould be glad to r"sDond if

you like.

l"'~ '-.'ould lik~ to proceed to acquirs this

parc~l,which is O~ naq~ 113, your It~m P-20, and that is

(

027

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27

r~latsd also to It~m 1107, ~Ihich is on paq~ 91, as Nr.

Lewis earlier i~dicated.

11R. GOLDSTEIN: !-layI ask you a question at

that point, Doctor?

!-lR.STRASSER: Y~s, sir.

HR. r:OLDSTEIN: According to the Item 11,-7,

page 91, the state's allocation is a maximum of $750,000,

is that correct?

HR. STRASSER: That i.scorrect.

1m. GOLDSTEI?1: A:1d than on It~m No. P-20,

pag-e 113, for the first aC'luisition of land, 45.53

acr'e.s you ara iJo.YJ.;:g 1,100,0007

MR. STRASSER: Y-es, sir.

1-lR. GOLDS'rEI:-j:You ~..ant to qat a total of

200 acres, is that riqht?

~IR. STPASSER: That is right.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: Bas"Jd on that you are oayi.ng

roughly hetter than $20,000 an acr~?

HR. STRA.SSER: y~s, sir.

HR. G()LDSTEIN: So you ,/ill he spending ootter

than $4 million just for land?

HR. STPASSER: Yes, sir.

028

28

to put uo the $1,2Sn,OOO?MR. STRASSF.R: Yes, sir. We have discussed this

~xt~nsivf!'ly\-lithth,,:county gov~rnrn~nt. As you may kno"," f

~Ir. Comntro11~r, th..z countv governmsnt ,,'ent through a

revie\-lof th~ Gerr;lanto~mmastsr plan. This car-rousis to be

a part of the deve10ument of that new cowmunity in

Montgomerv County.MR. GOLDSTEIll: That ne~l community 1.5 standj.ng

still right nOH.

1m. 5TRJ\SSER: It is nroc~-edinq. Ther", is

construction going on. There are peo~le moving in. The

!rIagt~rnlan ,,'as amend'3d, annrov'-e:d after a r-e-annlY5i~ r

consultant study and a number of public hearings, was

r"Oannrov,,,din revis.~d form hy the I,~ontqomeryCounty

Council in January of this year.That revision at tpe requ~st of the county

council nlaced th-=.college campus site ,,,here~le a}.",.

oroposinq it this norning, at the int~rsection of 118

a'1.d11aryland Interstate 270, 'cr'near':" 70-5. This

sito;,conforr;ls~,'iththe planning naramaters that the

county cou:lci.l hB.lia •...•.~ :..r:norta ~t.

It is their 'desire that ~I" no;, on this sito;:

and they have indicated that they realize that the cost

029

29

might be more than oth".r sit"s, but 'for thsir planning

ourpos~s, and the larqer paramst~rs of the d~velopm~~t

of G~rmantol'!l1, coordination I..'ithin the county, th?y

th~ state's allocation is, $7S0,OOO, and th~ actual

purchase nrice for th'a balanc", for the "'.otal oarc~l.

They have indic3.t-ad about 200 acres is wh'lt th~y

~'ould support. I think the. state indicated it halit'-v,""s

!\

about 240 3.cr,,-s ~Ioulc be appropriate.

HR. GOLDSTEIIl: D') you h.:w'! that in \olriting?

1m. STRASST:R: Y'2.S, sir.

th~ top officials?

l1R. STPASSER: They have b",en sh3.r",o I'lith al'd

coordinat",d.' ~lrs. Ross is her".. 5h", caD. confirm that.

HR. GOLDS'l'FIN: I I.'ould lik" to nut it in th",

record so th'?re I.'on' t boe.a qu~,stion ahout it. l~e don't

I..'ant th ..'? sama th5.ng to harmen that happe:lsd in Takoma

Park.

llR. 5TP.,\SSF.?-: No, sJ.r. If you knol" th" forI:lat

us€d in r1ontqomery County for cani-cal proj~ct planninq,

this is on-2 or the: she.~~;s that d'2.als ...;1 th G-:rnani:o\\~n,

....- ..' '1 ,...'-_ ... ' ••...• ~~.

(

(

030

30

.aid, $750,000, and th~ balanca is from county bonds, so

there is no question. They have b-aen inform-sd orally.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: What happ"m'O-dto tha bond bill?

They can't sell bonds unless they hav~ the ref€r~ndum.

LT. r,OVER:lORLEE: 'rhey d"f-.=.atedthat

ov-srwhelminqly.

1m. STRASSI,R: This is a matt~r of acc.antance by

the'!county.

1m. r,OLDSTEIN: I )mm~. Wait a while. All you

have here is a she'!~tof paper, which don't mean a thing

unless you have your county council okaying it.

is th~ir official format, Hontgomery County, Maryland,

COU:1t,.Council. Their PDF, and th':!irannual county

allocation.

HR. GOr.DSTEIN: You have a n"!w county council

ta~inq office in Decsmber.

MR. STP~SSER: Yes, sir .

.MR. GOLDSTEIN: I wonder if we could hav~

something in ~rritinq.

LT. GOVERNOR LEE: ~lait, Loui s .

MRS. ROSS: You have a resolution for th"!

031

31

council did by r~solution aDprooriate that money last year

in their hudqet aooronriation so it is an official document.

It is my understanding we are entitlEd to spend UD to the

mon<~y that tho.y apnronriated.

IIR_ STPASS:':R: Th,;y am)ronriated 5750,000, as

indicat~d in this document from the state. We have those

documosnts. Tho. state has se~n them. I think, I don't

(,

(

kno\oJ""!1ether!1r. l-Iahhenersonally has seen them, Hr.

I.e•..l5.sand the others, but th~re is no question about this.

It has be~n discussed by county officials \oJ~thst~te

off:ccials and renresents from the college and the state

Bo~rd of Community Colleqes, State Planninq, General

LT_ r,OVEPNOn LEE: I need some helD, Eill.

I came in late on this ao'?nda. I-Ihatis the relationship

I.m. GOLDSTEIN: Tpey ar~ both relat~d.

LT. GOVEllilORLEE: Are they the same oi~ce of

lann?HR _ LElHS: No. The board is requir"!-dto anprov~

th~ sit-=, location, for a:-1V comru.unity coll~q-::, so !'v!-7

is basically aDoroving that location.

LT. GOVE~<lOR LEE: Just aDproval of the site

032

32

of the coll~ge.

MR. LEWIS: Riaht. p-2n is the approval hy

the Board of th~ acquisition of this parcel of proD~rty,

state narticination.

LT. r.OVERtlORLEE: I a,<,.tyou. That.:.s wha-::I

~Ianted to kno\./.

MR. C,C1I"DSTEH1: Secondly, you are also

approving the archit€ct, Cohen and Haft, Holtz, K€rkton,

KarahaJ:ir. You are doing hlo things, approving th'!.S; .•....;)-~~

and th= overall planning, architects, th~n also i~ p-20

you anprove aC'luisition, Vlhich se-::sthe price for the

r~mainder of the land.

LT. GOVr.R!lORLEE: Riqht. Is there any !,rohlem

about 11-7?

IIR. GOLDSTEIN: !-laybe""'9 can he3.r from th" lTlan

I.m. JOIlNSm!: F'rsd Johnson, l\ssistant Ex""cutive

Director of the State Board for Community Colleq~s. The

State Board r~quires that a resolution he for~ardcd prior

to any allocation by the Board of Public HOcks and the

..

033 l.m. STHj\SSER: I thi~]~ th", d'o.tail<;d hack-up 0:1

this is on file and certifi~d.

,.m.• J0Il11Sml: Hiqht, sir.

1m. GOLDSTEIN: Ar" you qci"g to have to

conde~n anyhody's land and ~akg thsm move out of th~ir

hom" to q"t th" 200 acr.;:s?

I.m. STRl\SSER: 11r. Comntroller, '~-e hava not

rsachsd that staae y-et. Hg "lr", in th" proc'?ss of

negotiating, a:1d this narti_cular own:r is ,",'illi:1g to 5.,;;11

and offered this ootion. Ilost of it, I ausss 99 p."reent

of it or mors is onen farmland, und~vsloned.

LT. GOVERNORLEE: Thi" ;.~ 11 v.;ry k".y ~J."""~nt

in th~ Gsrmantoh~ mast~r nlan, which has been revised

a~d I think nm.! ?.nnroved by ",v'?ryhody invol 'lsd, and its

5.rnnortanC'2; is hard to ,=xaqq~r a t-s.

Is thare any e,uastion ahou>: Item 1.1-7 from

anyhody an~~here in this room?

(No resnonse.)

LT. GOVErolORLEE: We will dispose of that.

I.IR. GOLDSTEIll: I want to he sure everyhody

agrses this is th~ riaht 01ac8.

LT. GOVEHNORLEE: Thi sis th'a riqht plae,,",.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: And to mov", peool'? cut and have

33

034

34

controv'~rsy like. th~y had in TaJ(oma Park, I want tho';

r~cord straight, you had all th~ controversy. A lady

call~d m~ el~ction day. Sh~ hqS canc~r, diabetes and

a lot of comnlica tion s. You k:l0'1 the lady.

LT. "OVEmIORLEE: I r:nol1 th." ladY.

HR. "OLDSTEIN: I ",ant to b" sure 10]'3 are not

causinO' anybodY to hav~ any sickn'ass or any illn .•.s5.

IJRS. ROSS: Hr. Goldstein, "'", actually hav'~ a

community advisory committee that is v~ry sunnortiv~ of

th~ co11oo:0",;her~ so hone-fully you \o:i11 h",ar good things.

from them.

LT. GCVr:~~!0R LFE:

your E.asy on'es.

to of

1m. GOLDS""r.IH: I ,,]ant to be sur'? it is i:. th"

r~cord. Nhen I-]Sgo to Hontgom",ry County, cve.rybody l.-ill

be nic~ il:1d Jd.nn.

LT. GOVER~lORLEE: They Inr.~ v"'ry nic-" to you on

Tuesday. I"hat is your nlqasure on this?

!IR. "OLDSTEr:;: I move I.'e approve it, ",i th

lov~ and aff~ction. L'3t' s get tl1.1 r",cord straiaht. That

is all I a~ doing, is getting the r~cord straiqht. Herq

is th~ place to talk about it, riqht hare.

LT. (:OVER:o,ORLEE: Duly mov"!n and seco:,d",o,

Item 1'-7 annrov"d, and I'lithout obj ection it stands approv~d.

035

35

Now, P-20. Is th~r~ any nrobl~m on th~t?

~lR. GOLDSTEIN: No. If th3.t is the situation,

I mov'~ \'I~ anprove that, \.,ith lov'S and aff~ction.

LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Do you second the motion

1.,Iithlove and affsction?

GOVERNOR TA1'1ES: l'1~.th lov.a and affection.

LT. GOVERnOR LEE: Duly moved and second~d,

Itsm P-20 b~ apnroved, \-lithlove and affection.

ac>prov-;,<1.

It is so

J.lR.ST!V\SSER: Thank you, \d th lov~ and aff".ction.

LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Get out of here.

Do~s "ch:~tccnclud-a ~v::r~".thir..qfrcm th-e community

col19qe ar~a.?

~m.LEI-lIS: I think so.

I,T. GOVERNOR LEE: The stat", nsoartmeni: of

Education, Dr. Earhart.

DR. Bl\RNES: Governor, this is hand carri"d,

GrF, It2m 5-D, a r~au~s~for an Assistant Sun~rint~ndg~t

for Snecial Education. Thsy do not have currently an

Agsistani: Sup-e.rint-endent. This is in the nart of til••

Dspartment of Education, to carry out the recent court

decisions

DR. El\f~lIART:19"1 f) decrse. \'lehave tlla,'Judae

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036

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36

Rain~ court decr~~.

LT. GOVERNOR LEP.: Just a moment, pl-,:as'",.Do

you have anoth~r CODY of this on~, K'an?

Quentin, identify yourself once again for the

r~cord.

DR. EARlmRT: I am Qu~ntin Earhart, D~puty

state Supzrintsndent of Schools, here to requ~st

consid~ra~ion of th~ Board regarding sstablishm~nt of a

nosi tion I,'hichDr. Barnss ref-arred to. I think it might

he aD~ronriate for a f~w comments about the snecial

educatio:l nroqram, v.'hich no,",has grown substa!1tially to

annroximate1y $35 million this YA~r. and it requ~st ~hat

has b~sn at least sent in' to the Denartment of Budg~t

and riscnl P1anninq in ths amoun~ of 55 million for 1976.

LT. GOVERNOR I,EE: !'Iewill discuss that later.

DR. EAmmRT: I'le.,ill discuss that lat:=r, not

wi~h lov~ and aff~ction,I guess, but in th~ t~n y~ars

that I have b~'2.nVllth the Deoartment, I have seen this

nrogr3.m groH from rouahly $1 million, special education

purposes, including home, hospital instruction, to thos

figur~ which I crav~ just a few moments ago.

1-1-: view the matter as involving anoroximatsly

125, ()()n childr-~n bv th-e tj.l'1~'th", law is imT)l~m,=,nt.=d,Which

037

37

allows for a five-y~ar phasing neriod, and until the court

d~cree is implemented, and you do hav8 a year's grac~

period to implement that decre~, hut it has grown in

such a \olavthat "'~. have tried to keen ahead of th.,..

rsquiremen'cs of th" lal'7, and of course give servic.;s

to th~se children.

11",thin): that at this mom~nt V7ehave about

70 p'?rcent of the childr"!n b'i<ing givan programs, or being

provided nrograms, and ohviously we hav~ no choiCe, th~

state hasn't any choice exclmt to nrovid-a 100 nerc.;>,nt

coveraae, includinq some of the oth<;r stat"! institutions,

naM'~ly'Pos'il\olood,~'7h"re aonroximc:tl?ly 300 childr"!n aro; nOl'7

located.

He feel t!'a-: this is servic'o< to these hanc1icanpsd

children; that is a prim", function of the state at this

noin'c. .This matter has he"?-np5.m)ointe.d by lal,. I-Ienoeed

high-l"?-v"?-l leadershin to sunnort the prOqram and make it

nossihle for th.~se children, and their narents, to have

fre" nub15.C ed\1ca~:ion.

Judge Raine's decree definitely spells out

that ~ducation for thqse childr.~n sh?ll !n fr~e.

DR. BI\R!JES: Gov':rnor, according to our DOS':' 'cion,

th",re are 19 peoole in the sr>ecial educatio!l. nrogram in

(

,

"

038

38

aRk-ad for 11 nel" t)(lsitio~s but discussing this Hith the

Gov~rnor he f~lt giv~ them on~ that would create th~

division status and call for leadership and they would have

to justify additional ones in view of the current load

of ~'ork.

He hav'Sn't qotben to-th~t y'~t.

DR. El\RHl\RT: !']-af-aOJ1 we mURt forge ah'~ad 11ith thi

l'roqrar.l.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: Is this a merit syst2l11 job?

DR. El\REART: This ~Iill be an unclassifi""d job.

DR. Bl\R:-lES: Non'S of their nrofessional jobs

HR. GOLDSTEIN: Do 'lOU h3ve Romebody in mind

t'1i.l',: is e:.;nsri",nc~d? Tvill th~y be from !-laryland or do

you hav'.~ to q,~t th',om out of C'1i.cago or T1isconsin?

LT. GOVLIUWRLEE: . Th3t is a local D"!rson.

/.lR. C;OLDSTEI,I: Do you '1av" sOr.l'i;body in

!-laryland to do thq joh?

DR. FAHI'l\RT: I think so .

. HR. GOIJDSTEIU: I am qlad to h-ear tha~. W,!

don' t n-e-ed an imnort at this tim-€'.

DR. E.'\.R1!JIR'I': No.

LT.

r'"

i

,,\.

039

...• '

39

to cr.gat~ on~ n':;\.'nosition of Assistant Sut):?rint~nd~ni::..

HR. (;OLDSTT:IlI: I "7a:'l~ to be sur.,'. v.'~ hav"" a

r-~si<1e"1t of l1aryla'1d Hho i.s qi v~n an o"portu~i. i.:y to he.

0ualifi~d for this joh. So m.nv tim~R th~v ~RVS to go out

80r:,,""1':)(ly B:ld hri'1g thsm h2.r-a.

LT. GOVERnORLr;E: This one is going -co h",

local tal'''nt.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: That is good. I '-.'8':1t to h,,-

sur.?. It tal':$s fi v~ ysars to -;;:ducata. th~m arout what

Haryl'3.nd :l.s cil about.

LT. GOVER?TOR LEE: ! aqr-e'.=! ~'Jit.h you.

Ar~ vou movina approval?

1lR. (;OLDSTEnl: I mov-e approval.

GOVERnORTAlI'ES: S<;,co~ld'Sd.

LT. GOVEru:ORLT:I;: -Duly l:\ovsd and s~cond~d to

approve, Ibam GEF 5-D. l~ithout obj<,:ction, so annroved.

DR. BAR~F.S: There is on~ mor~ hand-carri~d,

G'2.n?ral Itsm 27-A, v'hich is from Hr. Ksnt, Assistant

Secretary of I~alth for Medical Care Programs. This is

a hand-carried item. Ths current pharmacy fee. is Sl.75;

Blue f.ross-Blue Shield pays $2.10. Th€- Hsalth DenarUnent's

budg~~ rqauest for PY 76 was $2. I think.

040

;.

40

l1R. I:ENT: Y-es.

John J. Ke~t, Jr., Assista~t Secr~tary,

D~nartme~t of II'~alth and r.lental l!ygi-an~.

LT. GOVER,'<ORLEE: Hold it, Jack.

.have a genius for losing th~s~ things.

I S'E.em to

,\

This is Item GI 27-A. Proc~~d, Mr. S~ct~tary.

IlR. KENT: Thank you, Governor.

As Dr. Barno.s point,!d out, the D~nartm" ••t is

requ~stin~an increass i~ .th~ nrofessional f~e for

pharmacists from the existi:lq $1.75 psr nrescrintion

to $1. 95. This deals ,'lith nr02.scrih-ad drugs only. lis

Dr .. Barnss noint",d out, "'''' have roi<quesi:eu in th~ FY 76

huc1get th;).t 'chis fee be incr'Sas~d to $ 2.

Th~ r-eason '..'o!?- ar.~ making t.h.t::r~qu"~st ~o(lay I

to go i:1to eff.?ct January 1, 1~75 is tho;>fact that

inflation has moved un so rapiuly ov~r the course of the

last y.,;ar, in narticular, that pharmacists are findJ.:1g

it ~xc~~di~qlvdifficult to m~~t th~ir cos~s out of th~

Just for ",difica'cio~l, the m<:dical urogram

r~imhurs~s nharritacists bas~d 0:1 t\-,l'O i.t~n~, O~.~, t:~~cost

of th~ ingr~di~p.ts,nnd s~conrl, t~~nrof~ssional fS2,

~:hi.ch is nossi.bly a misnorn~r. Hithin th3.t nrof~ssio)1al

(

041

41

fsoe go~s any salari,,,,s that ar-e involv'ad for nharmaeists and

oth'?.r "2mnlOV'a-es, th-e r~nt, utiliti'~s, cost of contain't!rs.

That is all ineludoqd i.n that nrof~s5ional fee.

LT. r.OVERNOR.LEE: That is what v;'! are t.'ilJdnq about

h~re today.

MR; KENT: That is \,'hat \'l~ are talking ahoui:.

today.

NO~l, as Dr. Barnes also noint'O.d out, Blue. Cross

and Blue Shield at the nr~sent tim. hRS a nrofessional

rsimhursem?-nt of $2.10. That fee has h~€n in sff~et sines

January 1 of 1974.

LT. GOVERnORLEE: 'rhis $1. 75 rab", Has

1m. J:n.JT: This was .2stahlish"d in 1970, a..'1d

no iner~as~ ~inee 1970.

DR. Bl\RNES: Th.~ nharmacist' s fee is th., only

on.1. that r~al1y h3.s~'t qon~ un since that tima.

MR. KENT: That is basically corr~ct,Dr.

I3n.r:1'~s, :..n sorn'3 ast)~ct all of th'9. oth8r f"?~s hav.;. in som~

\,'ay k"!nt nae-=:.

LT. r.OVERNOR LEE: l\re thBr« any (1uesd.ons?

'.in ~f)LD~'!'r:rn: MRV I ask you a nu~st.io:l! Jack?

04242

Do you hay"" ths $354,000 I.,ithi.n your budq~t to Day for

this incr~a~~d cost from $1.75 to $1.95?

1m. REliT: Hr. Comntroll~r, \oI~ estima'c,a if He

b~gin this January 1, 1975, which is ths D~nartm~nt's

r.",CJuss'cdav, that it I.Till cost anproximat-;!ly $269,892 for th"

six months r"'-fYmini.ngin th~ fiscal Y'5:ar and it is our

f~~ling that we do haye.th~ mon~y within our existing

budg",-t. Noe: ~.'ould not have to request any additional

funds, either from the Board of Public Horks or in the

d~ficiency annronriation.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: In other word~, you hav~

$2G9,OOO?

HR. KE)IT: Yes.

1m.. GOLDS~r:nl: Hhat tyn-=. of surveillancs do you

hay-" to k~en th"s~ folks from aoinq from druqstor<> to

drugstore and getting sey~ral nrescrirtions? They may

goet oj.nk Dills in Druqstore A, throw them in the qutt-er,

qo to Store A, g",-t blu.a pills. They prohably don' t like

that. Hhat checks and balanc-,os do you have on that systsm?

.1.m. KEllT: The only 1.lay that that is, or th~

indiyidU:l.l cun obtain a prescrint5.on is from a physician.

MR. GOLDSTEIN: I undsrstand. They qo ~o Dr. A

and get a ~r~scrintion.

/",,

043

43

MR. l:ENT: Ive ar", att"' ..nmting to oastablish

both I)rovid'~r and recipient profil~s, and to determine

individual cas,;s that nevi ate from the mean, the norm,

and at that noj.nt in time, to '10 ilnn talk \-lith physicians,

if ""S see that th",re is difficulty with certain

physicians, that their pr~scribinq nractices se~m to be

much deviated frem the norm.

At that point in time, if we find any

physicians ",ho \',1~ can':1ot ",ork 'oJi th, w::; th'~nqo to th€.

m-edical and chirurqical faculty, who no,~ has a vdry strong

p-,>",rrev ie," committee hecause th."y ar~ both conc€.rned about

-c.h= practic-as ,..'ithin th-: m-edical orof":a.5s.i.on, as ,~'~.~lla~

the costs.

They have been exc"2sdinaly •...•ell \-15.th th"

1.1R.G()LDSTEItl: llu!'\hsr two, are vou Up in your

computers to q~t these noctors and th~se drugstor~s ~aid now?

Ar~ th~y on tim~?

J.1R. KENT: t'~-ell, at th-~ pr~s-ent tim~, th~ pharmacy

is rU'1nir.q about three \-leeks frOM the time ,,'e r~c "i v"- the

bill. I~ is do\..":1 f:Lom sJ2:v-eral months a Y'?i::lr or y~ar and(

a hal f ago. l-J-sar'? ,,'ell ,-..i thin the nomal comrn",rci.'ll

04444

MR. GOLDSTEIN: Are you still getting a lot of

complaints?

~1R. KENT: We are d~alinq with tens of thousands

of nroviders, and tharoe is ahmys som~ comnlaints. lY,~ ar-e

d'~alinq \-lith a l'1i.lT:1no'c.hsystsm that nays 6 million hills

a Y8ar. The comnlaints I thinK ar~ €xc~edingly do~~ and

I think that th", system is, you KIlO"', imnrov~d to th~

point ".h;;r-a most of the old'ar nrobl"-Ins of the nast have

bsen don? a'~av ",ith.

1m. GOLDSTEIN: In other \>"ords, ~lhat you "r",

saying to us, a lot of th~sl~abus€.s ar.:S no;" b-e:t:1g cut',~d,

:ts that C"",...,...-e" •..?_ .

HR. KENT: That is correct.

I,m. GOLDSTEIN: I I'lant to h", sure ','e g~t -Chat

(

i:1 the r"?-cord so 1"'2.know "!xactl V wh""r". th", mon~y is com3.ng

from, and it ,d,ll not com" from th'2. ",merg£ncv apnroT)riation.

DR. BARNES: In order to g-:.t full legislative

aTJDroval, ',..s talb,d to" the Chairman of th" Ilouse

J\?t'ronriations, I,'ho says he ~..ill sunoort the r"qu'Sst. If

th~ Board annrov~s it it apn~arsths l~qislatur~will

handl':! it too.

LT. GOVERNORLEF.: You Id.ll handle that

cl~aranc-:.

045

/

45

DR. BARNES: Yes.

flR. GOLDSTEIH: In other words, what "'S are doi:1g

h",r~ today is suhj?ctto l~gislativ-a approval.

DR. BARemS: Any i:1cr'?as'e~..hich C'lUSSS legislativeapproval must (TO to the budq",t.

/tR. GOLDSTBIN: I:1 otheor ,,"ords,th", aopropriata

5.':1th= S"'-:::at;,",tIl hav~ to also anprov,,"this.

DR. DAR?I~S: T~at is right.

fer annroval .. '::hat. ~_s ccrr~c-::.

DR. B,"\m;PS: They hilY'! 30 days to aDnrov'c! c.~

or if th~y nO:1't, it automatically is anorov~d.

:,IE. <'OLDSTEI11: HOI" ahOl!'.: th =. mon=.y th-'i.Y "'p",nd

in th~ month of January?

DR. DARcIES: Thgy HilJ. act D" it .-J... •• ~

I\.

!!n. ~OLDSTRI:l: Okay.

L'l'. GOVEP.:10R LEE: Okay., Do I h=.ar a moti.on

on this cm=.?

il?. ~OLDSTEI:~: I mov,~ that vl~ apnrov'l:'! it, subject

046

46

to th'", annroval of the Joint Budqet and Audit Committ.~~ of

the Gen~ral Assembly.

GOVr.mlORTAHES: Second. Okay.

LT. GOVERNORLEE: All riqht. !lotion duly

made and s~conded and I'lithou'C objectio:1 so ordared.

I have s~v~ral other n~opl? •...•ho I<'ant to make

nersonal apnearanc'C\s on sned.fic i terns. Hadn I t WE. b",tter

take them un now? Buster, \':hat is th,o first of th'd onss

you ",a!1t to hear?

HR. PHIPPS: Douq Talmey, Director, Bal timore

Recreation and Pnrks, I~ould li.k"" to sn",ak on 28-A,

Secretarv's aaenda: Proar.am Open Sn~c~.

LT. GOVr.RNORLEE: \'1hich agenda is this?

HR. LE\'lIS : Proqram Onen Snace.

HR. PHIPPS: Sunnh~ment A, 28-A.

HR. TAI~NEY: I am Douglas T3.\':ney, Di.r€ctor of

Recreation and Parks for Baltimore City, and th~ pur~ose

of nv ann-~are.nc'S todav i.s to r~qu'a:st.of your honorahl-;

Board a variance of a nrevious grant under the On~n Snace

ogram. from the D'i!nartment of lIatural Resources for

acquisition and demolition of St. ~Iary's Seminary grounds

and a huilding on said qrounds.

You had anprov~d on Decembzr 5, 1973 a grant

047

47

apnlication for a purchase prics of $450,000, olus

$131,023 for the demolition of a buildina of almos~

ons million and a half cubic feet.

Th'= purnose of our aDP~arance today is to

requsst that that qra~t application b", amended to D,;,rmit,

rather than the city to demolish that huildinq, the

Sulnjcian Fathers who are th= OIm'20rsof the building to

ta,:? it dOl'ffi, for t\.'o r-aasons. One, \"'" feel from having

tar..<O.:1E.stiamtss through our D':.partm~nt of Housinq and

commun~.tyD,,-v"!lonnnnt, which is in chargs of demoU.U.on

of buildinqs for the city, that th? sulnician Fath~rs

,, ca:. a cheaper rat? than the ~stimat~d S131,000,

hu':: mor"" iIOIDortant, the sulpician Fathers, and Fathe.r

John Sullivan, a director of the st. Nary's s-;minary,

to rax~rcis~ very close sc't"uti~'\y and control ov~r th-=.

contractor as he tabes t!1e s",mi':!ary huilding dCvln,

b""cause of the proximity to that building of the st.

I"ary's Chapel, ",hich is a very famous and ir.mortant

his~oric and archit~ctural pi"?c'3 of structur~ a:'ld also

th~ \>!Orld-famous r~oth~r S-eato!l Jlous~ is ;!xtrem~ly close

r-y.

(

048

48

1'7~havo; had this rsqu-ast from th" Sul?ician

Fathers that th€y \-!ouldassume th~ supervision of th,,_

contractor ",ho '1ould take that huilding dOvm. That is the

sense of our r"que st today.

LT. GO'lERNOR LEE: Does Father Sulliva::1.want

to apn~ar?

l-m. Tl\!'1J-lEY:Yes, sir.

LT. ~OVEm10R LEE: Father, do you want to come

over here? Would you identify yourself for th~ r~cord, sir?

Fl\THER SULLIVl\N: I am Father John R. Sullivan

of St. 1Iary's Seminary, 600 North Paca Street, Baltimors.

I am the director of ",hat is lsft of the

No,',', do you \\'a':1t r.loe to mak~ any T)r~s~nt(l_tj_on or

do you Hant m?_ to answ=:r rruestio:1s?

LT. GOVEmlOR LEE: Let me ask tne Board

rnsmbsrs, does anybodv have any questions about this

proDosOll?1m. GOLDSTEI:l: The only question I have is

the historians un there in Baltimore and conservationists

are sav5.na that th~y don't \-'antthis building demolished.

LT. "aVERi'lORLEE: I think th.dr concern

is for the ehan?l and the f-loth<:>rSeaton Hauss. isn' t

'.

049

49

that corr~ct?

HR. GOJ,DSTEIN: I don't ):now. I visit€od the

I.lotherSeaton llous'S. I thin k the chapel is one of ttje most

beautiful in Am>:oric:'l.I ,'.'asth'o?r~to one of your '''ondsrful

s9rvic9s last vear. I am haoDY that is restored as

a house of the Lord for neonle to go in and m'9dit:'lt~. It

is h;o.autiful, a great contribution noi: only to ~I:'1ryland

but i:o the entire nation.

FATHER SllLLIVAN: Thank you very much.

LT. ~OVP.RNOR LEE: Could I ask just one

0uestion, FathBr? Is it reasonahle to assums that th~

order would smDloy a professional d~molition outfit to

do tha job?

LT. ~O\1ER;l("\RLEE: I am sure your folks

hav~ not b~~n train~d in wr~ckaq~.

FA'I'HERSULLIVAN: Y"s. \']<;, have alr<:ady asked

bid~ from thr~-e nrof~ssional wr'Sckinq comnar..i'=s, dr:moli tion

compani£s.

GOVERNOR TAI'IE~S:Louie, your referenCe just nO'''

to the historical valu'9 of this, has that hs<?'naone into?

llR. GOLDS'I'EII1: G€Org'd Loswis mad"" a study of

Dr."erving the building and using it as an adjunct

,\

050

50

offic~ building to 301 W9st Preston.

MR. LEWIS, That is right.

~m.GOLDSTEIn, Nq have a renort h"r~ sayino he

\'Tou1dn't rs.col"ln'.?:1.dit, D?cause of th" $45 per squa"CHfoot•

cost for '!:hs old bU7.ldi:1q, as comn'lrdd to $55 ner sqnar"

foot for i'l n""" mod'i!rn mi'lsonry-s'l:e~l construc'i:ed building,

is that corr9ct?

I.m. 1.E\-1I5: y~s. sir.

HR. GOLDs'rr.IN, You r~eommend6d \0]'" not r""novate

it and US2 it as an offic~ huiJ.di~g.

to th~ stat". This "las from David Gordon, renres"nting

them, if you r~cal1, mainly D~eaus? of the nrobl~m of

parking and r~novation of the buildinq. This of cours.,

.if it l'la'S r'?TIovat",d at $45 a squaJ:e foot loJould still h",

basically a til:'.!::er struct-"lr'2. huilding in sid" , I.•h:i.<:his obvi.ousl

not d",s1r3.1119 for modern offies!>.

MH. r;OLDSTEEI, ll'?re is a lot of mat'~rial I hav."

got on it.

LT. G()lJER~mR LEE, \~hat kind of mat~rial?

!m. r;OLDSTF.IN: The v~ry thing h", is talb.ng

about, sunnorti"1o data, higtoric or'-;:s;,rvatio:l. I thiny.

/

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•\

051

51

llr. To••.mssnd is h~re ••.,ho Hants to talk about it.

LT. r,OVEmlORLEE: Do you have a prohl'Sll\ ••.,i th

this one, Arthur?

HR. TOH:.JSEND:Considsrabl«, Y'3s.

~m. GOLDSTEIN: It is a v'<.ry controvsrsial issue.

LT. r,OVEPJlORLEE: Let 0 s havs the \.,hol", thing

ou-:..

llR. TOlmSErm: Arthur Tmvnsend, Director of the

Haryland Historical Trust and also State lIis':oric

the buildi:-:q is on the national Regist~r, th~ SeatC:1

EOllS''? as d. iia'.:iallal 19.ndmark, illso i:h"i. chl:H')~la Ii.: waR

(L~~m~dbv th-,; Housing and Urban D.!V.~lopm~nt and P.",d'9.ral

\'Ihich \.,as r''OCTuastsd from th.;; Comnis:cdon on Historic

Pr~ssrvation of th~ City ot Baltimor~.

Th~ lOr-; nrocB:dur'S ",rent through. Th~r-=. w~r.::

(,

052 th~ d~molition.\v~ have qr~at fselinqs ahout th~ huilding, not

o~ly from its architectural st~ndooint, but it is a

Dald\'li~and Pennington buildi.ng, a r"-marJ:abl",structure

in itself, and it is also th~ site of Ii considerably

r.istorical r8Port. Fath~r Sullivan can addr~s5 him5~lf

to this.

I b~li8ve the Baltimore Cov~nant \'laswritten

th"re for the Catholic order, and I,!ef"1t that it \\"'1<;

imt)ortant for ~h~ci'i:.v and for "choe stat-s:, if nossibl'S,

to S<5-:;kal t'=;rnativ-:.uses. I I'!rot""!)oth the l\rchbishop

a!'.dF'1tr.srSullivan back i~ January and asked th.o.mif

thsy w"ould consid""r g-ettincrtonethcr with us, sit d01.'n

altsrnativs U5~S.

In hoth CRS"-S thc,,-resnons<; w"as th'lt :10 furth""r

52

Tn other \'lords,a d~nial

into th", 105 I')roCedur'?5,to sse I,.'heth"ror not I'''Scould

in fact fi::d al t'~r~::ltiv,~us"Z.s.

LT. GOVF.K,OR LEE: Is th~r~ Fed~ral mon~y

involv~d in this on~ration?

HR. 'rOHHSEllD: At this tim,;?

953

53

LT. GOVERNORLEE: Y""s.

HR. TOh'NSEllD: No. It is just on the R"gist.er.

Of cours''!, if Pathar Sullivan nroceeds ,~ith the

LT. (',oVERNORI,EE: Ho"! did you ge'.:: a 106

h'l-ari!lq cranked un?

I1R. TO\'illSEND: Because of the nroximi ty to

ths HUDurhan d~veloClm"nt which is no\<' going on.

LT. GOVERNORLEE: Proximity?

I,m. Tl\I-nJEY: The nronerty, Governor, li',;s

,,!ith;.n a n~iqhhorhood developm"!nt program that is

rec~ivinq some funds. It is sho~~ as orchard-Biddle

(

lle.ighborhood D~v<;lonP1"'.ntProgram, and this nron",rty,

althOUGh not rsceivinq any funds, and not nart of the

LT. GOVERllORLEE: It is a t"nuous r"lationshin

h~s\;.

HR. Tl\1'1NF.Y:I-Ie had to go through this 10(;

nroc,~,,,,dinqs b~ca use of nrox).mi ty.

LT. GOVErelOR LEE: I get you.

L~tm~ ask you, Arthur, ",hat is the. status

I" that on th~ llCttional Reaist"r of Historic Site!>?

r.1R. TO\'!NSEND: y~~, it is.

54I,T. GOVERNORLEE: lIs a buildinq or par';; of a

054district of what?

IIR. TOWNSEND:No, as a buildinq.

LT. GOVERNO~LEE: Alonq with th~ chani-l?

I.m. TO\"1NSF.:m:Y~s. Th",-yars also s-..narat-e

of Gsn~ral S~rv).co.s looy. into this building' to s~s \'Iheth~r

or Poot it Has f~asihl~ to find "lternativs uss, and from

ths renoct that vou have -- and s"'.crstary Le\olis can

csrtainly address himself to this -- th~ $6,750,000

ro.novation f-eq is $~4 a square foot roughly and to

renlac"'. tha'; snacs, the saM'? amount of snacs \./ould DS

ov~r 8 ~illion,or $35 a souar~ foot.

h." nruch!~t to, if in fact \..'.,. "rs not in a nosi '::io)) to ui:iliz-

this buildinq d.ght n::n./, or ev~m r-e.novate ths bufldinq

r5.qht no\./, to use thO':conc".nt of mothballs that

possibly th~ state could nurchase this buildinq from th~

Sulnicians and mothh"'.ll it, nut it away and stor: it

for a few ysars, until ws ar€ eithsr in a position or

( It is a crim'? that v.'e hav", "\;\"0 st"l.te

Q'?n::irtm'?:'lts, on'? v15_11inq to f i:1anc-e th~ d~moli tion, n.nd

055

55

ours'elv~s .1illinq to, h~r-,;, to sav~ th~59 buildings, that

do'=sn 't hav'e to occur.

LT. GOVERNORTJEE: H~ll, no',,-, did you brin(]

your ch-,;cl: Hith you to buy the building?

llR. TOHNSEND: (~" Hould bs lo-'illinG to heln

out. r Hill say that. ('7e. do h~v~ some F'ed~ral mon~y,

..(

and w~ ,'.'Ould h~ hanny to heln any oth",r de.partme:1i: I"hich

is willing to go along with this.

HR. GOLDSTFI'l: r have. a cO:1tract in my mind

h~r~.

Hav I as}: a aU'2s~ion?

LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Y'?s. I have. a feelinq

Fathet" Sullivan and Hr. Blum I'la:lts to g-=.t i:-:to th'20 act.

llR. GOLDSTEI,l: I-!r. Towns~nd "'ants to mothhall

d B l~. t .. d ?a:'1 a I.-~MOr? ~ar 1.'to ourl..

llR. TA!mEY: Y",-s, sir. I didn't wan~ to ~~t

(

i:1to this. \ole have. il!'J aonrov'2.d qrant from your E03.rei.. If

searchi.nG. I"e, the City of Bal tirnore., elld Fath7'.r Sullivan

••we. hav~ he.~n ssarchi.nq for alternate. uss for this

056

56

th~ 110~her S••aton Hous••, sinc'?; 1966.

1'1•• have h••",n to the Univ••rsi~y of l1arylanc1,

w,;,hav~ h~~n to th", University Hosp5.tal, ~le have r~""n

to out' Ds.nartm",n': of Education, we l13.vebeen to th.:,

Univ,~rs:'.ty of Baltir.1Ore, "''> h.3.veI:>••••n to pri vat", d,,;v'ilopers,

Ii ke I1r. Seruhi:1, \-1ho is doing th •• D"lv••dere Hotel. l,e

have don•• it and ths Sulpician Fathsrs have done it to

try to f:l.nd al t ••rn~ts us~ for this huilding.

7\11 ,.,s. h'~ar is proposals. Father Sullivan

~'ill tell you :'..na mom-e:ntthat they are really at th.,

end of thsir financial resourcz's for having a holdi.:1g

op~rat:'..on at this huildinG, and unfortunately in

Bal tiMor,,, City ,.,e don I t mothball vaC'll"',thuildings. !V€

fir~bnl1 th~rn~ventually, not voluntarily but that is"Jr..at occurs and the Sulnician Fathers are very \.:orri"d

that if this building stands vacant for a long tim~,

thers will ~ a dis3.strous fire and thi'.V are going to

los"" the buildings that really mean something to th",r.l.

That is th •• position that we find ourselv~s

i:1. 'rhe city is trying. to !lqln th", Sulni.cian Fath~;:-g

out of this terribl~ nrobl~m th~y find th~mselves in:

lots of proposals th~ building be us~d for this or th?t

057

57

I would like Fathqr sullivan to t.ll you of

his efforts through the ygars to try to reach 11 solution,

oth~r than to hays this ryark ar~~ around his Catholic

pr~cinctg.FATHER SULLIVAil: As br~.sfly as I can, and I

\,'illh s qlad to ans\.".rqu,~s-cions later on mor .• d-.tails,

you k:1o\-T as \01,;,11 as I do -eha;: chanqes hav" tak"n :olac~ in

t.O P..clli!1. Pe.rk a:1d \'7~ hac1 ;;t-:o y~?.•rs of or~ilosonhy, '::.h:;.'C

is ~h~ ~hird a~d fourth y~ars of coll=ga ~t Paca S-cr~~t,

abou'c 20n s.t.ud'~.n'cs.

ours",lv-asar.r1 \-lithths dioc€.sa.:~authoriti.-,s about '",hil.1:

to do, and He finally d";cid,,,dto movs the students throughout

to our collsas at Catonsv5.ll~, to combi~e those two,

because they had lost students too, a:1d th~n the qu~stion

was I of courso;:., ""hB..ti.:o de ~,..7:" t~ !'aca Str~~t.

\'1ho.n \~~ \-,,,-r9considsring moving thsm, w;, began

to look for r.oss3.hlere-uses. actually had to mov~

"I

(

•...

058

58

th~ stud9nts in 1969, and so they hav~ b~~n th~r~now

for five years. The building has :10 si:;ud=onts.

1'0\", nrior to that, to show you our int",r-esi:;

i:1 keening un the huilding I want to tell you that for

instance in 19';6we SD-=.nt\'!"loll oV".r $100,000 renewi':1g that

brick, and th,~ hricl: looks very nice as y'~u nass it nOlv

from 'i::h",outside, etc. Things ins;.de ar'Sn I t so n;.c"i!

but thi~gs outsid~ look nice, hut that is an ~xam~l~1

to sho\" you hOHmuch "'9 G.ctually lova the huilding, and

to dsmolish it is a last r,;!Sort on our p;;rt.

Secondlv, in 1967-68 \-''''also spsnt ovar $100,000

r~n~wi~g th~ cha~~l, 119c~us~this is a ~ational landm~rk.

I.light I also say, Hr. TO"'l1sandm'lntionsd that

"~h-2.bllildi~g i ts~l f is on th-e. National R~aist'9r. This

hannen,~d in 1973, \"ithout any r€CTUest on our nart, and

':"I.ot Oi'1l:y that, ,._,~,,!~r.q!1 't eV'S:J~notifi~d. ~.]~\'Jer-s just

lat<;.r on, I said this building is no'\: on tha Nation"ll

Regist.:.r. Thsy said yes, it is, it is put th"r=o. But

this at any ti~~. This was don~ without our cons~nt.

1'1=0think the hierarchy of the buildings there

is th". chanel, ,.,hich aoes back to 1808, and the ~loth."r

S,;?e.ton JIous~.

05'1

59

The buildinq its~lf, the oldest part of it is not

yet 100 years old. It was built in 1376, and then oth~r

,

narts werg added latAr,

As far as th~ archi~~ctur~is concern~d,sorn~

1'-sonle sa'.' it is IoJorthy to k,o'~n for th.;. archi tsctur".

Othsrs say just the opnosite. So I think we 'can say this

is th~ disnut~d point.

To come dmm to 'the hard facts, \~ithaut a long

recital, I 9ive you I"lY\-!orc1that I~e have tried from the

noint of view of qovernm~nt, Fadsral, state, city, to try

to find a r'?-use. 1'1'~h.'.l,ve'lone to nrivate d.'~vo.lo",i'<rs

and W~ hcv~ also gons to vcr1~~~i~3titutions.tlr. TOI.~s",ndm",ntionec1 my l",ttar to him at th."

h~gin:1i~q of this y,:~ar, tha~ I didn'"t S~~ \-lhat Hould b~

accomplish",.d by further meeti:1os. This \,:asn' t b'Scaus'S I

\"n.nt~d 'to nut Hr. To",n~~nd off, but it had a'On~ar.;.d1:'1 th~

pap",r lonq b""for-=:this that w'"" that the building was

<joi:1<j,and it ,.!as all of a sudd",n at the ",l~v.nth hour wh~.~

we had already mac1o.an arranqsl"l~nt with th~ Dspartm~nt of

Parks that this request cam. for further meetings, and

I'J. \.!er.",mot''? tha:1 r<>.adyto tall:, but \,": had talk~d so

much and \-.''''h'Oldhad so many ms'?tings, I simnly thought.

th"lt at th= mom~:1t,ther'., I-l'lSno nrocrr.'<;s in furth"r

060

60

m<;etinqs .

Th~n ~his qu~stion of 106 came un. We had an op~n

meet:i.nq on flay 21 of this year, and they nromis'?d us that

,.•<; told them that more d-.;lay, of course, was costing us

mon"£y. L<;t~me Dac!: un just a l:,ttl", bit. In .our efforts

to show you aq!l.in that "I"?-really did make efforts to tind

sOr.1ething to do with the huild::.nq and to heIn the.

community, I'loa rsnt<;.d 5.t for $1 a v-ear to I.lodel Citi ••s, to

I.layor Schaef'"r,. <lnd Hodel ci t:i.-as cam.• in and used the

t",o lo\,'",r floors and helned us l'lith some of the hills, but

sv,",-r.with the h,~lo that \'Ie r';,ceiy~d from Ilodel CitL;.s, it

still cost us, with no incomq, ovar S50,OOO a year, w.ll

over that bv ourselves.

N-,:;h3.v~ b~,'e;ns':.andi:1q that oaxnsnse now for fiv~

~r'?B.rs and H~ can r t do it any long-er. \\Ts just hav-::n I 1:; got

ths mO:1.ay,so it is not a Cluest5.on that l'le lov~ to demolish

ths bU~.ldinq, but there is no oth",r solu~j.on for us, and

SO ~? hav~ to COM~ to tha~.

To gst back 'co \.,ho.t I was sayinq about th",

meeting on Ilav 21, that Has \-J:'.th the Ac1v5.soryCouncil

of Historic Prss-o.:rv"ltion, a'1Q at that ms€til1q, i:hay

promis-~d us th"lt thsv ,,'ould mak-o.:SOI:l'" kind of a d.~cision

by ,Tulv and that "'~ would:1"c have this furth",r -o.:x!",=ms-a.

r\

61

061 Well, no d~cision was made, so further d~lay

set in. In the m~a~~im2, becaus€ of this state surv~y

that you iust m'?ntioned a while aqo, ".•~ waited for that

too, . and then y,;st'?rday in l'1ashington ,,'e most, we w,snt

over ~h."re and met l'Iith the Advisory Council yest-arday.

So I think ",e have coonsrat"d all we could.

That resolution, ,~hich you may knO\~, y~stt'!-rc1ay

,,'as til.}~snby the Advisory Cou~cil, vlaS som"thinq lik •• this:

v.'o2. commenc1Fa'cher Sullivan, the sulnician Fathers and the

city fOe all the effor~s they have made to find a r'S-us'?

for tho;; huildinq, and for th'lir coone:ra~io!l ",i th the

Advisory council.

l'1s, somsthtnq lik,,- this, vIe €Couraqe HUD,

Jy~cause this is th", lor;, ,,'~ encourage IIUD to sn-:ak to the

city ahout n«rhans a last and fi:'lal sffort to find

a US'9, p~riod.That ,,'as it. That ,~as their r~solutio:'l

yesterday, so I am just here to say that we can't, wa

just can't wait any longer, strictly for economic reasons.

(I'ie haven't got thB. nO:1ey.to naY for it any longer.

"'ill DO; qlad to anSv,."r any questio:'ls you have.

I

LT. r,oVF.remR LEE: If I r'2ad this descriptio.

corr.=.c'c Y I L:h'Z. .~.3.r~<:u~s-;;ion ::>f ci'!"'_rao.L~.tio'~:. "'.-:""C }).:;.fo::~'.

06262

this Board now. Th~ qu~stion is wh~th~r the demolition

money nreviously authoriz~d should or can be transferred

from the City of Baltimore to th~ Sulpicia~ Fathers. Isn't

that tha question?

1m. I.EIHS: The Board pr'~viously al:lDrov",d an i b:m

I'?hich qre.:'!t'OJdth'~ ci tv funds t.o purchas~ th-a building,

isn't th~t right, Buster?

IIR. PHIPPS: That 5.s rioht.

J.1R.LEI'IIS: The i tern today increases that

fundino to include d~olition.

ur. C:;OVERlJORLEE: It incr'i'a ses tJ1.'! amount.

IlR. TAmmy: Hhat Hould h,mnen, Gov?rnor, "th-?

Suln~.cians \-?ould layout the mO:1sy, and qo through the

co~tr'l.ctual Iwrk of oettino ths building dOl'":1,and th~n

inst~ad of thq neqoti'l.ted nrice of 5450,000 that ~~ had

COr:l-~un .I.,ith, that \0.'<; would nay th'! addition, th,,_

dsmolition cost, in ad~ition to th'e $450,000. W~ ar~

confid'ent 'that_ if the Sulnicia':1s do th~ I,'ork, th", arnOll:lt

of th~ dSlnol:!.tion \.,ill b", loess than 5131,000 thai: ha'i heen

nr~viously annrov~d.

Doss anycody hav~ a nusstion or do~s anyrvdy

.'\

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63

/lR. GOLDS':'En:: Is a:whoc1y h'~r~ frorr, IH.;n,

Balt:.mors C3.ty?

r.u~.Tl\l'nrEY: !To, sir.

IJR. GOLDSTEIN: Thsy ar-e. th,. ones that w,mtsd

IIR. 'l'AH,JEY: Th.~y S'l:lt us i"to 7.h":.lOG T)roc".~di:1qs.

11r.ich mak",s it ohvious th",v ",ould 15.k,. to s'",'~ i t or",,,'~rv.,,d.

proj -ect, find th~~only thi.~g that. can hann-e~, if \o.'e proc'i!.~d,

is tha-= th,~ymay attsr.tp-:: to "2;x'i:ract SOr:1'~n-an~l ti-es agai~st

~~~ city i~ th~ Orchard-B~ddl~funrling.

tho"? [)5.r",ctor for the R",qion of :.laryl.'l.nd. h", call~d in th~r"l

an attorn~v a:1d aave a v",rhal opinion that h", did not

thi!ll: HUDcould a.xtract such penal tiss, hut the Bal timor'!

City is prsn~red for that ~ventuality in this. \~'" think

,\.

thaLc 1,'-; ca:1 sustain l'2aally th!'lt th'~y could not extract

I.m. GOLDSTEIN: Suppose they did. Suopos<,

tr-.'~y ~xtracted p",nal ti",s from vou. \'Jho then "'Quld have

• 064

<.•

64

HR. TAI'lNEY: Th~ C:..ty of Baltimore •

HR. GOLDSTEIN: Th~y ~louldn I t corne to th." state

askinq for that money?

!-IR. TAIVNEY: \'I-a think ,,-a can S1stain our h,gal

position, thnt such nsnalti-as could not D~ ~xtr3ct~d.

LT. GOVERNORLEE: Doug, ,,,h'•.n and if this

huildinq is torn do,.m, ,.,hat then bscomes of the land ~1h~re

it us~d to-b~?

r-m. TAmmy: It becom'?!>nark oronerty.

LT. GOVEP210RLEE: Park nronsrty, right.

I~R. TANNEY: R5.qht.

~m. GOLDSTEIN: l-layh~ you should contribu;-;€

l!,R. GOLDSTEIN: I hav~ ~:alked all around thBre.

:.IR. TAI~~lEY: That 5.s a scho;matic of "Inai:. \'Iould he. p~'

to tho?_ ar-=.a. Every thing- in qr",~n ,"ould r-?nresent th'-~ park

)65

•

65

and th~ gr~~n would b~ the Catholic precincts.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: Here is th.~ building. All thj.s

is lovsly old treo;s. H'?re 5..s the chape.l. I sat tho;.r'~

on a beautiful fall day when they dsdicated that, and

the sun 11as shining dOI,'n, and I went through tha building.

Th~ !,lother Seaton House is right h-are, on Paca Str",;t, a

beautiful red three-story hrick house. She left th".re

in 1807 ",ith a hors<2 and wagon and I.ent to l:mrnittsr:urg

and started St. Joe College.

NP.. Tl\H,lr.y: I might add that the sulniciC\n

Fa'ch-:;rs hav~ q::"v'~nto th-a D~nartm~nt of Natural R'S,50urces,

a~d ths S::l3.'t~of naryl::l~c1, ~ sC'e:lic eass.ment on th ..~ la~J5

that they will retain, indicati~q ~hat nothing will. Mver

b~don.'! to that blu~ sec-;;ion that I.!ould chang", i ts charact.~r,

ar!d th"lt sassm"O'lt can b'?, h.::ld in nerD~tui ty, so in

addl tic;, to sellj;'lq us the lahd, th So Sulnicians hav.'

giv~~ a n<!rn~tual sc-e:1ic '?as-anent th~t this \'.'ill al',,,ays

rsma:i.n nark-li.ke and modifying th", chapel and th~ ;.loi:h;..r

Seaton llous~.

~1R. GOLDSTEICl: G~org'''', could th~.s T)lac~ lH

us~d as ~n adiu~ct to the stat~ Offic~ Building? A lot

of n~o1)l",-don't have a. plac~ to liv-a, voung q:.rl s, ,,'orking

•

'.•

066

66

!-IR. LEIns: I'le ar'$ going in the housing husin-=:ss?

HR. GOLDSTEI:I: I am trying to think out loud.

\"1.",could pay th" Sulpician F'at.h''!rs th,," mon.",y.

IIR. PHIPPS: \"1hsr-a\'Iould the money com~ from?

l"7$ couldn' t us~ thi.s mon~y.

f1R. r,OLDSTEHI: Th", state of Maryland iR not

that poor. Let' s tar.-a it dOI'mnOI')so Ive can accoPU11odate

Fath~r Sullivan, get him his money and naybe hav~ this

h"autiful park. I an just thinking out loud. I hav~ rass~d

hy h~r~ nany times. I was janitor at the old Dixon horne

on Park i\v-s.nue. I l'lonld lik'o? to hav« had a plac~ lik.,; this

Hit:" a hunch of fi.:l'9 m~n and qirlg and still b~th~

jan:i.tor in 1'136.

l.m. LnUS: One of th" things discuss.,d Idth th',:.

u!~iv"rsity I.;as th~ possibility of using it as a dorm.

FATHERSULLIVAN: y."s, 5ir. It I.;as fonnel to be

much too ~xn~nsiv'?-.

IlR. LEI'!!!>: Thi s was studi",d back in 1% 6 hy

th-a DeT)ari:rn..~nt of Pla:1ning I \"h~nJim O'Donn-:::ll ,.,as th~re..

I knol-l it ao'?s back that far. I']hen I oat i:1to it r,,;co;'.ntly

I had a discussion l'lith Jim and Ive tri~d to find his

nrsvicus study. It ",as suqq~s"c~d at' that tiM~ it }wcome

~.....••..•.....•-< ..•.• ,. "

•

',.

067

67

/~R. r,OLDSTEIll: ,l!,,-r'? you could use it for

the Univ'"r!;i ty of Bal timor'>., U~iv«rsi,ty of /1aryland

nrof-essiop.al schools. It is a nice, bsautiful walk do~.'n

Paca Stre"t. Clos"! to L~xinqto'1 '.!arb::l:s, I,.'h",re YOU ca~

You all ''.'allt your money to get rid of th'2 resoonsih5.l.:. ty,

is that right, s5,1:",right no"'?

FATHERSULLIVl\N: Not only that, 1'.'<; also flOel

that th'S local co~munitv, Seaton lIi11 comr.mnity is also

for th~ rl~.moli~tion: th-:; City Historic Pr'9.s~rvation is

al so for th" d",moli 'd.cn. \'~ehav~ com" to this qradu::\lly

and not as I sa5,d at the beg inninq, that I..'e wa:lt",d this,

r.ut '''cF.. havs COl!1~ to th~ conclu~;.oi1 thA.t: this is tho'';' })c?s-:

solution for the neiqhrorhood, and for th~ s~ttinq for the

what I~~ fe~l is a consid'e.rc:rle danq"r, if it "lould

Another building last niqht was set on firs

in BaltimClr';, an ",moty huild:;,nq. l'le are very frighb:ni!d

of thj,s becaus~ it ,",ould CjO uo in !;r.Joks. It. is all I'lood

•ins3.c1r-: and it \'.,Tould h9 a gr<e:at da:1g~r, \.,'El f'6~l, \:0 ths

oth9r huildinos .

•. oCR

,\

68

HR. r,OLDSTEIH: Than!: you, sir .

Fl\THERSULLIVl\H: 'rhank you.

LT. GOVERNORLEE: This nroperty occuni'.cs

ahout thr",?I~-(1uart~rs of a hlock, and I U5~ th~ \,?ord loos~ly

b~cause it has got a v?.ry strll:1G-:. shaps, th~re is a block

bounded hy Paca Stre~t on th~ east, Franklin Stre~t on

th", south, P~nnsyl va!lia l\venu':. onth<! soutlm?.st, and St.

l'arv I s Str~~t on th"'~north"J'?st 1 and 'Sv.::n a Ii ttl'?. hi 'cty

corner of Druid l\v~nu?. on the northeast.

I think a very stronq cas~ can be;:m:'ld", as far

as in terms of a hen~ficial result for Baltimore City of

hav1:1q a Dark h"i'.r'?-surrounc1i:1C1and setti:-:q of f th" chapel,

imnort?:1t h:cSi::Ol"icbui.ldings j.n this i'lr"a.

l\rthur, I "?Quld Ii};",. to ]:no',', has "t.h.",

a n~s~~~J..O~and th~v ,'.'ould l:J:~.~o 5:;; •. i:h2. huildi;-;.g r~_.1.;ai:1.~d,

if at all nossihl~. I th5.nk one thing for you to cO'"ls5.d"r

,, L'~. GOVJ:R'lORLEE: !'lh'~:1did th'?y do that?

nn. TOHNSE!~D: It has h';.'9.n50m2 tin ....). I d0:11~

h~v~ tile dat~. It h~R h~sn some tin~ ago wh~n the issue

069 first cam~ to light. It could b~ back in January or

69

F-s>bruary, hut if in fact th~ huildinc; is reMov~d, that

a good d~al of th~ s.r~n9n~ss and ths qualitv of th~ park

1'7hich nOl~ is b~hind ths huild:l.na will b'2. lost. Th.,.

traffic on P'lCil S'cn'!et, th" nois;;, I,:ill COMSthrou([h and

a good d'S'll of quality of ';:h?-o'1rk which no\<:sxisi:s, 'ch?

gr~"n snac';:! behind the builnlna, will in fact b? los'\:. It

1,:5.11b? on-c<nedun. It will chanq~ considerably.

I IJould hat? to s';:'" this buildinq lost in the

I thi.nk that is a -t;.;;rribi-?

I\'ay to '10 about: ?ff<?ct:l.nq qr?en ar"!as in th'? City of

~.. .: ,...:.._ .•.•. -. ,

(

that I\'hich ::',s h-;:h:l.ndth? building.

I annrqciai::? Fath~r Sullivan's nrobl~ms and

I think it is r'S'al and 199:l.timate, but I think that t,'", 0\-/9

it to historic Dr~s,-;.rv;'ltio~1a~1c1'to ;:h~ build~nqs of this

tyn9, li)~eQus~n City, which we have already lost, and

oth~r~ nrou~d th~ ~tat~, to finn alt~rnativs USq~ and us~

the b~st rasourC8S that \';,:1h:lv-e in th~. stat'? to do this.

1m. GOLDSTEI:l: ~lay I ask you a qusstion, /.Ir.

Gov?rnor?

LT. C,()VERl;()R LEE: Go ah-3ad.

"\

(

070

70

of equity. Evet'Yhody has to come into court \~ith cl",an

hands. You hav,"l nl'lced this huilding on the historical

list, according to Father Sullivan.

1m. GOLDSTEIN: !lumher on". Numb~r h ..", th",y

had no knOl...lec1ge of th'l.t.

1m. TOIvNSE!'lD:That is an u:1fortunate circumstance.

,.IR. GOLDSTEIlI: In o';;:hsr \~ords, here you :i.mposad

a burden on these good fathers

!.!R. TmmsnlD: 'I'hat is tru,;..

1m. GOLDSTEI!'l: -- to hold th.:.s oron"rty. NOI'"

5.';;:;mc1 orotect th£. ext.~rior, k-ssn the ~lindO\., panes from

J:s5.nQ hrol:sn. lIr~ you pr"mar~d torlay to nut un SOI'\":

I'JR. r,OLDSTEIN: l'1ell, nOI-7,I am taH:i:1q ahout

what is f~ir. You could do the same thing to som~ individual,

imnos'S. a r~st't"ictiv~ use of th~ir hot1a and .ch.~ym~yb--~

don't hav~~o nav tax~s? It ig an ~ducatio~alinstitution.

You don't hav~ to nay taxes to Baltimor~ City?

F!,THERSULLIVl\~!: That is riaht.

071

71

IIR. GOLDSTEIN: Look at tha burden imnos=:d on

th?m if th~y had to nay taxes.HR. T01'1NSEND: Th-ar~ is no burden by hsi:l.g

nlac~d on th~ Natio~alR~qist~r.MR. PHIPPS: It restricts tho? us'" of the nroperty.

!'1R. TOWNST:!lD: NO.

I,T. GOVEP.!IOR LEE: \'I", will stand in r-ac,,"sS

until 12: 30.

(\~h-=:reunon,at 11:45 a. m., the lunch~on r-scess

•..~as tal:en.)

072 A r ? ERN 0 0 N 5 E 5 S ION

72

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LT. r,OVEmWRLEE: Very \Y~ll. l'l~ will rssum-a

th~ Board I s session, and h';;r~ ~le are still fac"" to face

~lith th" 5t. nary's S«r.li1ary.

!'-IR. ~OLDSTEIN: Nay I ask on~ qu-estion, Gov-=rncr

LT. GOVEPJ'IORLEE: Yss. sir.

IlR. GOLDSTEIN: /lr. Tal'.'1'l~v,this picture'. is

halfway on Paca stre~t. If my m~mory serves me corr~ctly

ru:minq dOI'.'T\ St. :lary's Strset .isn't that a high wall? .

IlR. Ti\l'INEY: Y'?s, sir. 'i'his is surround"'id by

a h~.ghwall.

HR. GOLDS'rEIN: will that he torn dOHn?

!-IR. TAI'I~lEY: No. l'l£ van'; ta r;:,-tain th" ~'-'i]1.

out to .thE. c01"nr.lunity and consul t th~m. ~h8 communi'ty h,=l5

exnr-;,ss'?d sone fsars that the park should not h€ w?lll''id.

IIR. GOLDS'i'Eln: The reason I ask that

I.m. TAl'l1'lEY: It is a bsautiful wall and si'ould

I.m. GOLDSTEI:l: Ilr. 'ro,,~s2nd r'Sr'arr",d to th"

nois'2.;.L.. -, c~r-~ of S~~.:. c~

tn--=. ~10.:!.S~. In oth~r ','lords, your trsss touch th", "Tall. That

73

073 ~ould cus~io~ t~~nois~.

MR. TA1~,EY: The wall would still qive you th~

~ffsct of an isolated, 0uite Dassiv~ ar~a.

l-1R.r,OLDSTr.nl: I ~'a5 tellinq Governor L~e, that

if my mernorv s~rves mq correctly I walksd through that

l

\

park not so long ago -- the ~all is around a big portion

of it. Th~ trees inside, certain tyP~s of trees, you

can nlant o~ tr.e outsid2 of the wall that will go UP r~al

straight and beautify it and as well as actinq as an

assth~tic 5~ns~, also cut down on nois~.

1m. TAI'1!'lE":Th1\t is right. I think sinc>'-you

curl:>alrsad" ..

1m. GOLDSTEI:l: I notic-ad that. That i\n~".'.er~d

the aU9stio:1. Is that right, Mr. Townsend, th.,.reis a

w~li around most of it that would cushion most of the

noise that you talk arout coming up Paca Str=st and ~h~

.other stre.~ts that lead into that arsa?

1'1R. TOIi'NSEt-lD: Yes.

LT. GOVEmlOn LEE: 1vhat is your nlsasurs,

g-entltm-:.n?GOvr.n:10RTAI'IPS: That is a r",al orobl .•m.

LT. r,OVr.mlOR LEE: It is a orobl~m.

1I.

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074

74

GOvr:mlORTAWES: It is a tough o~~ to mak~ a

d~cision on. It r~ally is. I don't know.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: This is unusual, sir. Hqr-e

you have. the Hayor of Bal timors ci'cy asking to hav,"

the. thi~q dsrnolishsd. You havq th~ nark psople un ther~

,,'anti.no it torn dQ\m. You have our historic p-eopli':,

I think, Governor L~~, you are a memb~r of that board

LT. r,OVJ::Rl:ORLEE: I am a truste~. I am

a m~mherof th~ Histor:tcal Trust r~oras-snting Gov'6rnor

IJand~l on that. But I "'.vide.ntly \'-'as not th"r'" ,.]h>!.nthis

was put on the agenda.

,'()VF.RNORTA1'1ES: Thev havs the ord-er. Th",y

",ant to be relieved of the burden of that building.

~IR. r,OI,DSTF.Ill: I understand, if an O,"~ler .tears

the building do~~ th~y couldint~rf~r~ with Baltimor~

Ci tv's mm. I ch",cl:ed. That. is my und-erstandinq. Th-=

Q\"Cl'?r, befor"" h" makes a s3.1e d~cid~s to d~molish a building,

that is his responsihility.

~m. 'l'AH1'lEY:That is corr-sct.

HR. GOLDSTEII1: They couldn't conv"!y thi1t

r~8no~sibilityto naltinor~ Citv, am I riqht in that?

HR. T01'1HSEND:Ye.s, sir.

1m. GOI,DSTEnl: 1'1-:; are not je:mardizino the

075

75

Orchard-Biddle Str~~t nroqram.

~'R. TOHllSEI1D: 'I'hat is riqhL

1m. GOLDSTT::I11:I I-:ant to b" sure I~'! unn.;.rstand

that b'!fore act:Lo, 5.s tay:"!n so th-1Y C3.n't say ~J'" in th~

Board of Public I-Ior!':s i<?onard5.zsa the actions of Ea.ltimor'?

Citv. Is the huild:.:-,q being torn down?

'1R. T1\I-nmy: The ()rchard-l3iddl", Str:,-:;.t -•.r",a:

old Orchard Lnundrv.

GOVERNOR T1\\'IES: 1\1'", they tSi'xinq tha'c do'.>-n?

~c~~cn,CCD1G ~ot

t,

of the off~rina of th"! lann for sal~ for wha~sv~r ournos~s.

It is ~on~d rnllch hiah~r thall for nark us~.

7h~v ar~ r~ally taki~q a fi~a~cialsacrific~

to n':-:.rmit th~ city to mak~ a nark fr.em it, but thai:" 5.5

all th-i? ,,;ffor-::! thsy have mad'? to hav2- it for sam;, oth",r

us'? comnat:.hl'~ I-,ith the occunancy of th~ oth=.r !milnings

,..•hic?1 th-~v d":!'3M mast 5.I~noLtant.

r.!R. GOLDSTEI!J: Th~ n'Sxt qu-estion I hav~~, bassd

076

76

of thi~ huildinq bo.ing made a national historic shrine.

/lR. TOHNSEND: I

MR. GOLDS'fEIN: I have som(,iopapers in my fil~.

It gives the 13 5teos that '10'=5to naminq or nomin~ti:lg

a bu5.1dir.afor that cateaorv, is that correct?

HR. TO\'lNSEND: That is corr6ct.

MR. GOLDSTEIN: I think ons thing is missing

in th",r,=. I think on NO.1-A, the owner should be notified

of the fact that his or her pronerty or the corporation's

property is b~ir.g considered for this tyoe of designation.

!!-=.reyou hav"'!first l!'.ltionalR~qist"r cO:lsid"ration,\

roql.l~st: 3,

nr~naration of forms, matching ohotoaraphs; 4, "0ron"rly

,,

co~sul.t.: r;O.~l"~rnorr S cornm:.tt-e-a, comnl-=.t=. nomina. tion foms,

stat~ cl-earina house, G, comm-:.ntsobtain~d from Dc:rt:i.n~nt

agencies, "7, clearing house ",ends comm€nts to SPO.

l.m. TOI-nlSElJD: State Preservation Offic"",.

1m. GOLDSTEIN: 8, nomin3.tion read by li~utE.:1ant

offic~r, nom!nation lJational R~qister, :~ationalRegister

and sta~:f rsvi'=lv,final approval for ]:ational Regist"':r

entrv, notifica~io~ of Co~ar~5~m~n~~d SPO, 13,

notification of O~."J1~rsand th05"! int"er~st~d. That ought

L? ~OVr.R~ORLEE: l!old H:, h:;ld That is

077

77

the nrocedure as of now. It is quite recent vintage.

I think I am correct on saying this was not the procedure

at the tim~ of this particular hui1dina.

HR. TO\'mSmJD: I ~!ant to apo100ize to Fath<;r

Su11iva"'l.

LT. GOVF.R!lORLEE: There w,~r. a numher of

instances that led to adootion of this orocedure, so now

everyhody and his qrandmother has qot a finoer in th~ ?ie.

HR. TONJ.7SEllD:That ;.s right. Th", o"rner!< are

notifi~d .,.,hen '07~ ar~ consid-erlng nomin~..ci()ns.

MR. GOLDSTEIN: I didn't 1<no"lthat. I happened

to the qood father and his n~on1e, you impose an &wfu1

hurden on folks to maintain a hui1ding \d.th no i:ocom'?.

~IR. TO\'1NSr.!lD:I annreciat", th.at.

HR. r.or~DSTr:IJ1: That is on~ reason I ",'ould be

inclined to vote lettinq them 00 ahead and takinq it do~m

and let Ba1timor"! Ci tv nr"!serv"> it Hith the \~a11s axound it

so th-e p~onl~ in the ar-ea hav'?.a olaca. to comrnun'~,.,..ith

hann~n~dhack i!l th~ early <lays, ~.;hata gr~3.t indivic.ual

HR. TONNS:::ND:I tJd.nk that 5.s -- if that is

078

78

th~ only course to take that is th" action that will hav~

to h~ taken at this ti.m~.

LT. GOVF.Pl10RLEE: I am Derson~lly reluctant

to he nartv to th~ dsmolition of any building that is

eith~r historical or of great archit~ctural valus, or both,

but once in a while you com~ to a situation whc.r~ th€re

5imoly is no other course. New I don.t know if thE

Gov~rnor is ti~inq his vacatio~~ on purnos~ ~his way, hut I

distinctly r<!-c3ll being stuck ",ith tha Queen City Hot"l

in Ctunherl'l.nd on a nrevious occasion wh.sn I I-'as pinch-hitting

"\

for htm. I am aoinqto q<=.tv'i!.ry sus,-,icious of the I'/hole

!-IR. GOLDSTEIN: On that Qua>;.nCity Hot",l, I want

,\

to th~ hank and qat or mad9 arranq~rnsntsto nut th~ rno~~y

Ul" to '"'r.eserv"" that builcHnq and call~d the top man in tha

cornorat~ effic.ss of 'eh= C&O-B&O. That nan Houldr.' t qiv.,;

m~ the timB of day. Do VOll r~mq~}~rthat? I ran in~o

lunch.aon, wh=.t is the. nans of the shrin?-, l\llegh<.my'

Shrin~ Cor-manv.

?his lady came un, ~Irs. B"njamin Franklin,

N~'h? York rr~_m-.:;.~, and said what ar,q you qoinq to do 3.bcu't

.... ::.

5.t? ;+-....... , I \.:ould hav.., had

79

079 a gold min~ in ther~.I~. GOVERNOR LEE: Ths main purnose of th~

F~d~ral act, a~d the 106 heari,g provisions is to prevp.nt

hasty, ill-consirl;,r~d action with resn".ct to historic

buildinas. I must conclude that in this situation, th~

act has be~n observed quite scruoulou~ly, and eVery

conc~ivahl~ solution has b~en examin~d and found lacking.

I am afraid that I ,,,illqo alo~q with th" motion,

if eit'1"r of you qentlemen ~!ill make on'<l,to aoprov"" this

it~m on the aqenda. All ria~t. vfuo is making the m~tion?

r,OVBRNOR T1\I-1r,S:I will s~cond th" ~.mO\,.l.O!1.

T,T. G()VER~!ORLEE: 1\11 right. Hr. TawgS -- you

didn I t talk fast enough, Louie. Mr. 'fa,.,'ssssconds ~1r.

Goldst~in's rno~ion.llR. GOLDSTEIN: But I ~!a:1.tthe r~cord to shO\"

that ~ath~r sullivan and the Sulnician Fath~rs W6re n~ver

notified of the fact it was a historic landmark, is that

corrsct?F1\Tl!ERSULI,IV1\:!:That is riqht.

HR. GOLDSTF.Ill: Thev havs been the burd,-n of

maintainina and nrotectina this buildina all during this

controversial time. They have now run out of money.

l1nles" somethinq is done immediately ii:will j'i'.oparctize

I'\

080

80

th-=. historic church and the !-Iother S.,aton Hom~, is that

eorr""ct?

Fl\TEERSULLIVAN: That is true.

!1R. GOl,DSTEIn: That is my u:1derstac:ding. To

In"? they are the Most important buildinc;s on S,=aton Hill.

That is th~ r"ason, that is \ohy you have Seato:! Ilill. is

h';;.caus" of 1\other Seaton's home and that b~autiful cld

church. 'Ihev \,"?.re th'~re befor"'! John carroll, tha

great hishon, the father of his church in Am"'!rica

LT. GOVER:'lORLES: I \Oant it und"'rstood i.f a:!ybony

tries to lav 11 fi:!qer on the I~other S.<aton Hom'~or th.?.

chv"Cc:t of t~~~~:tn~l that th-a ~ntir~Board or publicI-Jorks ',oill qo out ac:0. th'l:'O~lits':Jlf under a hulldoz"r.

~1R. GaLDSTr.li'~: \'1~ should not do anything to

"rot'Sct th'~n. Unless th'?. bU:.ldinq is o?.rnolishs.d, you v:ill

have a ser<?vhall set i.t on fir'? and -ennanqer all "t:h~,oth?.r

ruildinqs ';h':.r~.

GOVER?'lORT!\\'1J'S: Yeur r:1o'c;.on, could it i.nclud~

,h'~ ..1.5aa'~nda.roC!. am"?_nc1'=.d1:0 sh:>':! th:=:it th~ sulpi.cian Fai::h+-rs

I am sorry

081

81

t~R. r.:OLDSTEIll: The.y are cpi:lg to d'?1'101ish,

lost t'1" contrac'.; a!1d sunsrvi.s'O it.

FATHERSVLLIVA,l: Y'as, s5x.

m~. GaLDSTEI:!: Tho:;City of Ilal timor'" wi 11 pay

th'=.n for th~ n-=,moli.t~on, nlus th<; $400, 1'I00-sol'1,,-.:>d'1.

HR. TAI'1l!FY: That is. cOl.-r;;ct:.

rm. GOLDS'l'EIl!: It ~,ill boa th~.ir total

rssnonsib~.U.ty. Ir. othsr Hords, you. buy th'? land, you pay

for the dsmoli t5.on o.XD?ns~Snlus the. lann cost.

HR. TAI'T11I'Y:plus the n-=.q::t:.'lten 5450,000, yes,

si.r.

J.T. GOVI'ffirORLI'P.: It has Dsen duly mov=n and

sscondsd that It~n 28-A b~ aDProved, and without obj~c'.:ion,

it is so ornsred.

I1R. TAI-TNEY:Thank you vsrv much.

W8 took so' much of your tim=.

LT. GOVERNORLEE: w~ took most of it

ours~lves ~n th~ intermission.

HR. Tl\l-711EY: I ,.:ant to <express 10v'8 and

affection for'th? state On~n Snac? Program, for

Natural R••sourc")f\. l'1s.hav~ coll?cto.d for r?cr-aation

and nark projects over 55 million thus far, and th=

department that administer?d it dess.rv~s a oat on th~

bac}:, and Fath~rsullivan savs ~od tll~~s yo~ all r~a] OQoct.

082

82

HR. GOLDSTEIN: Th,mk you.

LT. GOVERNORLEE: l~ho is th-e riqhtful own-ar

of thes~ valuabl~ docun~~~~?

FATHERSULLIVAll: Thank you VE.ry much for your

un(l~rstandi!'lq . I apnr':'!ciabe it v-nrv much.

\

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LT. GOVF.P.!'IORLEE: I hav." on~ other apn-;;arance

not~d h",re, on naqe 29-A, 1'lr. Ba~ks for th~ D~lm'l.rva Pow';.r

COJ1lna~y.

1m. BI\NKS: r'lr. Govsrnor, I would lik", to yi -,;ld

if I could to I.lr. Hobb!", I-'ho is vice presid'~nt of nO'.lmarva

Pow'-r, sam~ sllh:iect.

LT. GOVERnORLEE: Fin.e. Do you \'lant to identify

your!"~lf fully for ths r-::cord.

IlR. HOBBS: I ,m J. E. Hobhs. vic.z nresid,,-:lt,

D;,lmarva PO\'!'2.rand Liaht Comnr.lnyof Marvland. \'1~. ar" here

toda~! r?.qu~st.':_naan. '93.~sn~:\tfrom th~ Board of Puhl:i.c \"lorks

for a tra~smis~io:l li~~ across th~ edq~ of th~ nrono~~d

Tuckaho"!. sta':<.> Park.

l1~hav~ a rath~r uniau~ situatio~h~r~ inthat th~Tuckaho"! Stat.,.. ParJ~ is anDroxinat~ly a half-mile

,.r:.d~~y f.i'l'~rrli.l-es lcnq iT! a ncrth-~outh dir~ction.

Delmarva has a Drcrl~m of sunnorti'1.q its cu~tomers in tha

area of Nvo. 1Iil1 s \"';.5t\,'ilrd and \'.'9 are nronosinq a

83

083 transmission line from Denton to WyeMills which runs in

. an east-\o"~st dir-ect5.on and find conflict "d th the Tuckahoe

stat,,- Park.

We h"lv~ heen I"orki,nq I"ith various ~l'?m"ntR of

th.e D~n'.lrtl'1c;nt of !!a1:ural Rssources since 1970 to try to

resolv~ these conflicts. Part of th~ nroblem has ba.~n

that ~arly in the qam'?, th~ desiqn of the Tuckahoe state

Park ,,'as nractically unknol''!l. It ",as a conc<!.TJtbut.

He didn' t knol" ",hat I"as qoinq to hanne:'l, and

t~ere have h'?en Quite a d'?lav on that score.

LT. ~()V;::RNORLEE~ '!'~"?."ha.,,~he"2n l:"ath~r

fluid,

l1R. HOImS: I !'l~'?d not refr'2.sh your mind en that

subject.

W",hav'? in ,,'orkinq I"ith tly"'. Denartm'i!nt of Natural

Rssources explorqd a :'lumber of alternatives, Ther~

'.lre no other oood choic~s. l'le ,,'ould not lib" to b€ in

th."'-nark, You ,",auld not 15.k." to hav" US in the nark,

but the choices that I"'"'.hav"., for examnle, 1'lOrkinq

frOM sou~hto north, if W~ ~~nt sou~hof th~ To~~~of

Hill "l'orouqh a':ld nu'"'.?n ."..'1:'1'0:, and th,,-y are south of the

nar):, ,,'e ",auld cross some v'~ry had marshlands,

I',

084

84

l~~ \oJould hav<?-to cross the river 0:1 high towgrs,

and \oJould add ,"!uit", a bit of ,,"xnense, and miloaaq'" to the

ling. If \--e.\""'TItnarallel to the railroad, b"t".",,'an D-anton

and Qu~~nstoym, it would tak~ us dir~ctly throuqh th~

c8nt-er of both Hillsborouqh and OU'-i:~nAnne.

\'1e think this is a hiqhly und",sirabl-e routs. The

rout'S that \".'Shavoanronos'Sd is just north of Rout", 404,

part of it narall€ls th-.>.oth~r -- t\'10 railroads int .•rssct

at Hillsborough but tns first gno feet of it parall .•ls

the railroad and then br~aks a\oJayin a northeast~rly

Th~ roui:.~ th3t w€ hav.s; worked OU~ has re~n

I.!ork'i>dout ; ointl V with the DenartM",nt of Natural R.,;sourcE.S,

th" parl:s n"lonl"l. v'?ry fra~l:l v ~'e ~'ant:-e.dto (J'~tthrough

th~r'! as au5.c1:ly ;md as strai.ght as nossibls. Th-,;v hav,,:

r~rru""st<»dth'lt "'<»nut cor:1"",rs in it so that ~,'? <10 not:

cr~ats a tunnel sffsct.and \-IS hav~ agr~sd to this.

The other aH:-e.rnativ'~ 5.5 to qO completely north

of the park, ",hich would add about six miles to th~ lin<»,

taY-", un 40 percent more land. It ~ould boaa t~rrific

( \'Jast~ of natural r~sources i!l t-errns of nol'Ss, ",ire,

.nsulator, I'lhat h~v~ you and ~'ould ~Iran the park

In So.ptemher they found that

085

85

and hack un th~ other.

Hs think this :!os a very poor altsrnativs. l'is do

havs hy means of l'?-tterthe concurrence of the D.partment

of Natural Resources that they find this nlan acc-'.ptahle.

This Board referred it to the Deoartm~nt of Stat~ Planninq.

We have a letter from them.

the plan was accsntahle.

He ask your acquiescence noV! that this orocBdur .•.

be allowed to ~ referred to tho. D~nartm~nt of Interior,

D~~artrn~n~of Outdoor R~creation for th~ir concurr~nc~,

It is. our

undsrstandino that in qoinq to the Buraau of Outdoor

Rscr->.a':::'.on,that \'.'e\.•~.ll have to substitute somsthinq of

valu~ of the eaS~Mo.nt used.

H. are nrenarsd to do that, eith~r in dollars

or in alt~r~atsla~d.

HR. GOLDSTEIn: That is one of the quastions.

'f!O\',' ""id'9 ;~sth:ts riqht of \olav, nurnbe.r on-:.1?

11R. HOBBS: 'l'otalrioht of ,,"ayis 150 f=",t.

HR. GOLDSTEIIl: 150 fest.

MR. HORBS: Onlv 62 feet of that will ba cleared

comnlo.taly. Tho. othsr will h"-'selectiv ..~ly trill1l'l"lQso that

(

086

86

that would he tall '?nough tc fall onto the line. I have

a sketch of that.

MR. GOLDSTEIn: On"!minut-e nov'. 150 f",,,,t wide,

ri.ght of "ay. You ar"i! going to clear how much?

LT. GOVERNORLEE: 52.

~'.R. HOEBS: ~layb? you \.!ould li}:e to h'lv•• this.

MR. GOLDSTEIN: ~2 f.et, riaht: 62 fe~~ will

b~ clear"d.

1m. HOBBS: r;2 feet v'ill b<? c lear~d of .•.v•..rything

do\o!nto ~h'? around 15.'1e, and allo,~~d to naturally rE.Re'Sd

itself .

MR. GOLDSTEiN: }~w 10'10 is the right of way?

MR. HOBBS: I hav"! 270Ci f""t.MR. GOLDSTrI~: 270Ci feet?

1m. HODBS: Yes. It is almost exactly a half-mile

~lR. r,OLDSTEI~<: Hhat type of struc':uro. will b'?

nut ut:> th~r~?j.1R. HOBBS: H-fram~ structur.;;s, t~..lO nolE.S, \']it~\

a si!lqls cross-arm. Th~r'? ~r~ s~v-=ral al t.,:;rnati v'~s h-e:r~.

Th'? proposal that \.'? have mad~ \,'ould bz \...i th v.'Ood001"s

of a. gr.;en Ci'."'''. Currently we are huildina a lin, south

of Sali!"hurv. l'l~ are gsttinq start .•.d this sumn;;r t l"'•••.xt

r-.r

oR787

SUMm~r.

,'Is I'lill build it of concret-a noles. Th.i.s is an

al t~rnati v", night fit this nrohl'~M !'I2't"'i."

i;O nay fo't" th"l riqh-t of 1'"iW?

tIR. FOBBS: H", hav"? had it annraissd and w"

h~v~ an ~nnraisal of $4700.

~.m. PHIPPS: J.l0. He. h3.v'? got to ast J.ik"" land,

will accspt lik~ la~d for it unl~ss they l~t us acc~nt

HR. HORBS, That is right.

!1R. GOLDSTEIN: HOI']much land is ir.volv«d?

r.m. !'OBBS, 'l.33 acr<:~.

~1R. GOI,DSTED1:

to nay $4700 for -that land?

9.33 acr'?s. You aroe. only.goi.nq

1.1R. IIOBBS: 1'J.'l ar<! il.ski!1Q onlv for an ",as~.ment.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: I knol" you ask for an -eas"'..nIsnt.

•..In othsr words, right now you hav~

ha.autiful timh'Zr qrO\~i!1q th~rso. You qs': a timb-=.r crop

i

I,

088

88

HR. HOBBS: This is not timhsr.

1m. r,or,DSTEP1: Is it cl'i;ar land?

HR. HOBBS: No, it is hardwoods.

IlR. GOLDSTEIN: 'l'hatis timb-er in my couni::ry.

I:1 oth-ar ,-]ords, to you, a utility man, no tr.e-as rn.;.;:!!

anything. Cut th~m all do~~.

I!R. POBBS: Ahsolut",.ly not.

I.m. GOLDSTEIN: You talk just lik~ the. t",,;!;t

of.the util~ty n~ool~.

HR. !!OP.BS, 1-1~hav~ ~;ork~c1,d th th-s Danari:m-,ont

of Natural R"3sourc~.s. Th~y find this proposal is

I!R. PHIPPS, :10. All \v,;;. '.Irs askinq for in to b",

ahl~ to qo to th~ Fedsr3.1 Government and ask them for

annrovC\l to nut t!l'S riuht of pav through th", nark •.....tth

the silsement, that the F",d~ral Governmeni:: would tell us

lik~ land to b~ add~dto th~ nark. Th~s~d~t~il~will b~

r-enorted hack to the Board aft'>r woe qat concurr<?nC6 of th ~

Federal Govsrnms'1t. He havE. to concur h~r~ first rdf or.,

it qo-es t.o DOR. ~.r~ar,q asking for th-.a. concurr~~c~ of th'~

P.oard 50 1'7" na\' qO to BORand rsnort th", full d",taiJ."

089

89

HR. GOLDSTEIN: I nev~r h-=ard th-e d-etails. You

talked araut it vest",rdav. I had th",s'? qu~stions written

dOvmh",r"!. This r.lr. l!ohhs says if you don 't us.", th",

stilt'? riGht of Hav for the nark vou have to qO build

a six-mils line through rnarsh'?s.

1m. HOBBS: No. the six mi l."s Imuld be ov.;.r

farm and ,,,oodl;:~d '?ncirclinq the nark.

LT. GOVEffilORLEE: Going around the north end?

1m. HOBBS: Yes, the six-mile route. The other

route ,.s th'? r.tarshv aroea to th'? south and reauir'C'!-s crossing

4[)4.

~.'!L r.rn.ns,!, 8III : I~ ot'1"r I.;or<15, bv qoin,?, throu,?,h

th~ stat-a land yon ar~ savi.~q mon"~y,you ar-a savi:lg tim~,

~R. HORBS: That is absolutely corr'?ct.

?1R. r,OLDS?EI:l: Certainly.

I.;ith utili t5.'?s for a hell of a lonq tim"?. I knov how

to get tal:c.m in T)ublic as v'ell as ;.n privat4). I v.'ant to

JT\ay::'~ MY obs~rvation t to knoH' ,.~h3.t,.,..a ar-e doing and out it

5~nth~ r~cord.

l1R. HOBBS: I \.;ould aqr"?'? with vou that this

090

90

/1R. ("'..oLDSTEII'!:Th'a state will accomrnodilt'"' you

hy l~ttinq vou go through stat~ narklano.

IlR. HOBBS: Just as any oth"r nroo~rty o"''nsr.

I,m. GOLDSTEIn: H? ar-e trust~-=s for all of th'~

l"eonl~ of th'1 State of I-larvland, diff€.rent than d,"ali~q

with ~~rchandise. They make the decision. We ar€. trust~es

for t!'ousanos of n~opl,". lL"1borncitiz.;!ns even.

HR. HOBDS: Th~ sho~ occasionally is on th~

other foot. He r,,"c<;ntly de'3oed h'o nieces of la:ld to the

Stat? Roads Commission thilt vie O\,'!l for th", accommodation

of Stat.,.Roads.

~.U~.GOLDSTr:rn: I aw glad to hear th'lt. You

LT. r,OVEmlORLEE: llr. Hobbs, hO\~ clo<;.,; to the

riqht of way of ~o~ does this come?

1m. Ilorms: Ilay I tak? a look at this?

LT. GOVERNORLBF.: Yes.

I-m. HOBBS: It is out of sight.

LT. GOVErnlORLEE: That pr~tty well ans~srs

ny C!usstio!1./.lR. HOBBS: Part of th? nronosal is to nrovich:

CO!1s'";ructio:1 tha.t \'li.ll h~ scr-e-en.~d from 404 . I don' t: hav'~

.: .'-

09191

is not on it.

LT. GOVr.R~ORLEE: That is an old on".

MR. r.nLDSTEI!J: n~xt. ons, do you construct: th'S

1in~s or 1e~ th~rn out to a subco~tr~ctor?

I-lR. ITOBBS: This ~.'ou1d defini t~ly he ~ contractor.

lIP.. GOLDSTEIN: I:1 oth;:r "crds, ,~ho is a.oi!lg

to sUI'"Srvise it?

~'P.. HORBS: Our "eon1oe>do. ~le have a cO~1struction

man on th~ job.

/lP.. GOLDSTEIN: \'1hat quarante~ do you hav~. you

",ill comply <lith the things you ar"" giving us herE?

1m. HOBBS: l'7",11, in the first n1ac", ••..•" must:.

C/O hsfore th~ "'~ry1and Pub15.c S'~rvice COfmnission .

HR. GOLDSTEIH: . I understand that.

l.fR. HOBBS: Th",r'? ar'" 3("l-some aq",nci~s that

~.'~must notify i'l:1d every on= of thsm has his requir-;,m''':1ts

i'l!ld I~e do, we have soil ",rosion control, ~'e have zoning,

all of th~se neon1e g~t in the act and we definitely do

have to fo110l'.' "lxact1y ,..''tat they, ~.'hat conditions they

I~R. PHIPPS: He have to come back.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: I understand that.

092

92

~m.GOLDSTEIN: I had SOMe sad exnerienc<?

in on? utility cost, when I was in Alaska, th~y tooK the

bulldozer and tulldoz~d everything. Th~y h~d to comnly

'<li.th rC!strict:tons too. That '",las, do,.':) i.n south~rl1 r"'iaryland,

not on the Eastern Shore.

l-iR. I!O!3nS: I am not sneaking for south",rn

~hryla:1d .

1m. GOLDSTEIN: I f they do that to rn~ God J,nO\~s

what th-ay do to the ordinary taxo3.ysr. Th?y are naving

Th~y had to corne hACk and fix ..•..1. ~. I just want

to hs sure that v~ qet everythinq in the record, what you

ar;: go:c:-,q to do vlh",n you qO through this p3.rk. That is

3.11 He ars trying to do. Tha"lJ: vou, sir.

LT. (;OVERllORLEI:: O1:ay. boss. llow y:m hav'S

go': it in the record and have yOU got a Ii ttl? rnot5.on for me?

HR. GOJ,DSTEHl: I am not making any motion on

this. I can t~ll you th~t.

LT. GOVERNORLEE: Ars you pr~p3.r~d to give me

a motion to annrov~ this O~~?

GOVERNORTA\'IES: On th'e.'hasis of Hr. Phip,",s'

~xnlanation of this, '\'16ar'2 not a!1proving, ar-e ",7<=!, the

right of vlay ut1til he comes back to us, is tha t right?

y

f

093

93

Gov~rnm~nt that H~ t~ntatively annrov" the transfi;r of th"

land. They \vill have to aqr'?"!, to th" now'"r to -- to

give us additional land in place of the land th~y ar~

taking and then the contract documents would hav8- to come

hack to th." Board to be annrov-ed.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: I']hy car: 0 t ',IOU g'P.t a prior

apnrov31 h~for~ W~ annrov~ it?

IlR. PHIPPS: It ~vould s.,em r'o!asonable thi!"

should ly~ th.=. cass, but the Fsd'2.ral Gov~rnm",nt ~Jill not

act untll t~1S s'l:at~acts. I don' t k;1.oW~..hy hut tlH Y

Look ho\v much ~"or.k V?1J. ~'3ve tothrour,''J, all th" n'in ~r ,",or}:. Supnos." th",y say no to you.

MR. PI'IPPS: That!~ all lost.

i'!R. ~OLD~TEln: Th3.-':is all lost. Do you think

~\''-:'' ~'ould gi.v" vou th~ nrior annroval 3.;1.dyou' '.!ould ac::

accordinalv? I ~h:.nk it should hi-.:~h€. ot.h~r Hay arour..d.

I.m. PEIPPS, I do too. 1'1" Snent a qrs'it amount

of rno~~v. from th~m, y-et thsyict~t~ no15.cy. Sam", as hanpsnsd in Calv<>.rt Cliffs. 1'/" had

~o act on it, do take lin.5 first and 90 back to th~m.

1m. GOLDSTEIN, I knol" of all the troubl", you had.

LT. r;OVEJU:OR LI;F., I I-'ould j us~ ac; 1 ~av€ __

094

94

(;OVER:10RTJ\NES: O!~th" basis of that, I think

\~s ought to go along I-dth it.

MR. GOLDSTEIN: All riqht.

(;OVER;lORTJ\\'1P.S: I so mov~.

'''R. (;OLDS'C.'EIN:Seconc1;;d.

LT. (;O\lEPJlORLEE: Duly mov~d and s~cond<"d, Its1\

29-1\, without obj~ction 50 order~d.

!m. GOLDSTEIN: \1ith th" undsrstanding th~y

hav.;>.to com~ hack \<lith €vsrythinq sst forth, with th~

approval of the Bur-oau of Outdoor Recr"ation and the oth~r

agsnci~s of \'lashinqton and the stat'! ag<mcies. that thsy

Fill cOl'1nlv \dth this l.i-:::tl<::qranh.

HR. PHIPPS: Y,"s, sir.

!lR. GOLDSTEIN: Do you hav., a cony of that:

di'lgraM?

LT. GOVERNORLEE: You can hav-a that on'!'..

lm. (;OLDSTEIll: 'l'har.k you, sir.

DR. Bl\R~lES: Ther"1 is one more o",r50nal

ann~ar<mc~. Ilr. Colbert < G"'.neral F.m",rq~:1cyrund It,,"'l 5-A,

r~quest from ths s-acretary of Statg, Division of State

Documsnts to cr=!iit'3 a nosition caused by Senate Bill

165 requirinq that ii11 r-equlations that \,-ara issu~d by

- .•...

095

95

GOVER!lORTAI1ES: Is this the hand-d€li v",rsd on~?

DR. BARnES: Yes.

HR. COLBERT: Good aft-e.rnoo::, Governor a:1d oth?r

msmbsrs of th~ Board.

LT. GOVF.R~l()RLEE: Do you V:2.::tto qo through

th<.l usual. identification process?

tlR. COLBERT: Fine. My n3.ms is Robert Colbert.

I am th= A~~inistrator of the Division of State Docum~nts,

ar.d sinc,,: th~ Divi.sion is a ne\~ divisi.on, I would U.ke to

t<!ll you a l.ittl-o hi.t ar-out ",hat W<.lare doi.nq.

Our nrimarv Hork is to nut out blo nubL'.cations.

may not --

.LT. r:OVF.!UrORLEf.: Rohert, I do::' t T:1,.anto

intsrrunt you in full stride, but are vou tqllinq m~ that

you ar~ the occupant of th5..s I)osi tion -cha t ~le ar-s now

in the procqss of sstar-lishing?

MR. COLBERT: I am in occupancy of that

~os~tion,y~s, ~ir.

LT. GOVERl!ORLEE: I r",cen tl y ,.!rots a V€ ry s-crong

not", to th". n",alth D~partl'lent on tllis subject. You are in

line for another one or the Secretary of Stat~ is. This

busi.ne!',:, of fillinq ions first and th"n cominq in h"r~

to cr~a~~ thsm has absolut~lvaot to ~~on.

0%

96

DR. BAR:-mS: I!~ hilS been goi:1q to ,.'ork under

another position fU!1ction, I th.!..:1K.

I.m. COLBERT: I am not sure. I ,.,as aoovint-ed

I be1.!..~v~on August 19.

~lR. nn:BY: I r.1::.qhtadd tv that, 11r. Cv1hert

is currently s~rvinq in a tsmnorarv canacity und~r ths

S~cr~tary of Stat~'s Office, and filling th~ nositic:1,

31thou']h it i.s :lOt an '?stahU.sh"d nORitio:1, of cours~. --

LT. GOVERNORI.E!':: }T.~is 50r.le•..hat mon, 1--.ga1

than tho.. !'<!a1th Dsn'lrtr.1snt job.

MR. BIXBY: His position is legal.

I,

1m. COLBERT: Since our ,',ork is 1'\'31'" to i:h.~

st~...:~, I \,'ould 15.k.";;ust to uass dOvT.1 boi.:h sid~s for

anyon~ ",he is interesto..d ths 1.\ary1a:1dR'?qist'3r, which is

dsscriho..d in the statute as th~ only official sourer- of

informat.i.o:1 for such thin::rs as all pronos~d ag'?ncies'

rulss and regulations, '?r.1~rgsncy ru12s or adooted rul~s.

Tho..Register publish~S also all th~

F.xo?cutivo..Orders, all th"!! notices of committ",<; m.:<stings

of th~ G~';1~ral Ass"?.mblv and ths:1 \-l.a ca.n at a:1Y tiIn"'~b~

giv€n i\ddi.t5.onal mat",rials to T)ub1i.sh by the i\F.RLCommitt-=.e

of th", r,''?;;l<:?:rall\ss''?:r.1hlv. Th." statut<,. d~scribss this as

0~7

97

th~ only official sourc~ of information and says that it

is th~ only valid and enforc'?abl •• text. Th"r~for<;, this

v'ory. has to h,= don's ~"ith a high c1;;:qr«&of accuracy ar.d

",5.th qr~at C2X"., h~caus=- :'.f I,'", sl10uld -err in the nrintinq

of this material, th-=-"3rror h".comes law, until a:1 am'"ndm-;mt

nrOC~S5 corr~cts it, so our ~rnnhas~sis on accuracy, complete

accurac'l if 1-'''. can a5.1'lfor thil.t.

Th". lav! also d".scribes this as a t".mnorary

sunnlsr.tsn'c to the Cod". of 1-1aryland n"crulation.s and this

is the Cod'S of ;:aryland R~qulations. This is a mu1i;:i-volum-s

I"ork I,!hich 1-'''. are also r".quired to ~dit and publish. This

is _r-Ol" in about "dallt volum-ss. and grov.-inq lik'? all rul".s

The ",ork of th'? D:'.vision is lara".ly ".d1t:orial.

t'1~~1~~dfor this a skil1~d staff, no'i: only of n~opl~ v.'ho

ar'! canahl'? of snott5_nq flal"s -in gramrn1lr and Enqlish but

"r~ also n'S~d n~onle ,\'ho are s",~nsitive to th~ l-eqal

implications of the r".qulations that they are reading.

I-]s have, He must as a nar': of our job enforc'S the

style set forth by ths Governor's Cod", Division COlTU:lission,

and so H". ar". dealing with the lanauage of rules and

so this in SUf1U11ar'lj.s very tim'3-co:1suminq and vsry "x'lctinq

098

98

~.rork.

\'l~ n~~d a staff of six TJ<'.onl~.l1e have not

o~lyt~e nr~paration of these agency rules and r~gulations

in nrint3.hle form hut ~.realso must do proofraad5.!1q and

any oth<>.r~tlr.lberof oi:.h-arclsrical duti~s. H':lrun

3. subscrin't.ion sBrv5.c~ Hhich must b~ maintain'2:d. r:~no,",

have about lsnn suhscrih~rs to the Narvland R~qist,",rand

th3.t ntlr.lheris also qrowing daily.

Finallv, we will also run a subscription

service to this mu1ti-volum'? s'S.ries,and all of th.,;s""

dut5.<'.sar~ ""xtr'?r:telyt5.ms-c0:1suminq and do r"'-'llliri'a

car~.fully choss!"':., \.7:;.11-.2duc~t~::!ds't.?..ff, so for th?t:

reason I would ask that th~ Board anorove the re~u~st

that H€ hav"" hero? for s!.x oositions.

I \o'ouldhe q1ac1 '~O anS\~'?rany que.stio!\s vou may

LT. GOVEmlOR LEE: I have got a coun18.

NR. COLBERT: SurBlv.

I,T. GOVER!IOR LEE: Of the six hm., many are

already filled bv n~onl~?

DR. BARHES: THO.

MR. COLBERT: ThEre are people on loan

II frol'lth" ~'Scre';;arvof Sta -::'''.I s Off ic e, Gov'Sr::1or.

099 DR. BARNES:

and a K~lly Girl.

99

I thi:1k th'2r,,- ar~ jus~ t~..o po,!.opls,

!-IR. COLnERT: !-7", r.~lioed hi<ilVily on K~lly to

provid~ us ~ith servic~s such ~s nrDofr~adi~a, haqic

cl~rical s~rvics.LT. GOVER!!ORLEI:: !'.s for riCiht !101'"th"" TE' s

ar~ you a!1d or:.'~oth~r?

1m. COLEr-RT: H'~ and tl,'O oth:rs.

LT. r.nVEffilOR r,FE: Hh.i.ch two?

1m. COLBERT: J3.V, you May want to h'''-lo IO'S

I {:h:.nk "chat is th~ n'9:rSOrl bill'e.d as ass5.s-::ar.-c,

0:1 hoard.

l:R .. r.r;':BY:

:1? .. cnLB~RT: It ~~ th~ administra~iv~t~~rrl..

~IR. r.OLDSTEI:-): Ar-1 th.::ss full-tine jobs?

..,.,I ~,. BIXBY:

,,third ar:d 'thq fif~h.

nR. GOLDSTEr.]: !-'r. Ccltsrt, ar~ th,>,s.,

full-t:.!"'~jo!'s? Is your joh full-tin~?

0100. 100

I.:n. (:I)LDSTP.IH: HOI'"ahout your assistan'c couns"'>l?

MR. COLBERT: No, sir. Th~y ar9 all full-timd

jobs, n"lonl", ",ho ar8 nailv i!1volv~d in th" nrsn3.ration of

th",s"," rul~s and rsoul.'ltio:1.s for nrinti.nq. 'l:'ho.v ar" all

full-t.i.M'" jobs.

1-1R. C;()LDSTEI~I: In oth'",r words, th",v don 't

practico;> la~' a'1d com", in and I,'ork an hour a day?

NP.. COLBERT: Not at all.

LT. C;OVEP.NORLEE: Bob, ~..hsrq do you hang your

hat? Mh~rR does this all han"~:1.?

r.m. COLBEP.T: Ov?r in th'R Sha~.. Hous'?, third

LT. GOVER~IORLEE: Right. Tha",k you.

I\P.. C;OLDSTEIN: Let nl'? ask 0:1." mor-=.(lU~sd_o;1:

at th~ last r.1'S",ti:1.qof th'? Narvland-Ddla~.'a-cc;-[). C. Pr~ss.

th~y d:i.sc\1$s~d tl-)i.s !'1aryla:ld Rea5..st~r. t\Till this nO\'l

ston l'ulal advsrtis'?rs fror.1 aoino i:1. th", Daily R"co-cd

cr"'neral not~_c'? of chano"g in th", r"'qulat.:.ons?

r~R. COLBr:nT: Th'~ 1a,.., say::; wn€n .it an;:>aars in

the I!arula~d P",aister that is sufficient l~qal notic~. It

qO"S on to say that any oth~r additional ~otic", is not

I,

olOl

101

departms!'lts I Jy"li",ve ars cO!'ltinuinq to print it in

1m. GOLOS'1'EEI: '1'h"" r-eason I ask you that

have 1500 subscribers. There are 4,131,00n pSODlc in th~

stat~ as of i!ov"?.mb~r 1st, nlus or m5..nusa f.-=.w. This is

a vsry exnensiv'? puh1ication. I1ha1; dogs it cost a y'~ar

to suhscri.be to it?

MR. COLBERT: $25 a ya.~r, 26 issues.

1m. GOLDSTEIN: $~5 a ysar. You knoH th'.,

avera<T~ nsrson ",ho buvs the daily newspaper or mayb"

there 'lrs o!'llv lS!'lO conies of th!.s throughout th~ Stilte

of Haryla.nd \.,it}: 4,131, nOD p'SopJ.~?

riP.. COLBF.RT: Hhat \"4~ have dO:lS to hcn.:.. for

the. \,id">.st nossihle d:.stri.hut5.0!1 of that is c-?t in touch

\.,ith all nubli.c 15.hrariss, all COU':1tv gov,>rl1m",nts, all

bar librar5_'~5. N~ hav~ sent Qui: mail€rs to all T.1~:illlb~rs

of th~ bar. t.'l'9 hav~ trio:~c1 to al art. ~vBrybody to thi~

r'R. (;OLDSTEIH: Do you n~a~ to t~11 m~ i:h"'~.y

J.1.F.?~-r. ci':; ..r l:,'..v-:.~ .:: .','J

0102

102

try to find a r~qulation?

MR. COLBERT: I am hon~ful 'th,=y will b" abl~ to

go to th~ir local library and find it, yas, sir.

~m. PHIPPS: 1'1~hav"" adv<;,;ri:is'<.dads in the.

n<::",snan~r,our d~n~rtm::.n"tdo~s.

1m. GOLDSTEIH: Can you nictur~ a r"'gulatior.

r'":!~n.;c4:.inaoyst.grm~~, crahh'?rs, hov!many ~o to th: 15.hrary?

I'P.. PPIPPS: H? adv'2.rtis'o!- them all in th",

DR. B.'\.H:-ms: That I'rould s-cill b~ don?.

1m. PHIPPS: That is ricrht.

that Is""",. Th",V !'lhould hav? <1 notic.;, of things that

ar~ q0i~g to aff:=::c'c th?m.

HR. COLBERT: As I say, I b" li~ve til'" prac-cic«

is co~tinuinq still qiv~~q notic9S in n~wsnangrs. This

is si71nly '::ha official 'OlndJ ..~qal t-.;)(t of those rul,"s

and r'lgulations.

tlR. GOLDSTT:1N:Thank you, sir.

DR. El\.R:'JES: Gov~rnor, I discuss'!d this

y'!st?rchv vri'::h Gov<"rnor Ha!ldsl. It \-las on the shopping

list of the hand carries. H? I..'ond"r-.d if 11 cons.grvative

a~',.,ro'-,cl,I,'')ulii~'t h? to ~110l'r about four of thsss, and

,,

0103

103

l~t th",m live with \o!h!l.t-sver~xt.ra contract typing h-:.1p.th'?y

had to ha'l'? and qst som'.!'?xn",ril?nc'" u"yond this heqinni:1g

Y'sriod. I am hrinqi:1q th!l.t un because of (;ovsrnor 14a:1d.q1.

LT. (;(lVF:R':()R Lr:E: Did h?- ir.dic'.lt~ which f:lUr?

DR. Bl\R!lES: 1"1«11,obviously you :1~",dth",

~dministrator, you :1'.!eda q~n~ral couns~l, b~caus~ this

is legal ,eork so it \o!oulc1boil do','n to which of ";h..;.C:1~S

I:1 t3.l1d.nq to '1r. ni.xby, th", steno-cl-i,rk could

nossihly be defsrrsd, 3.nd if th~y hav'5 to use t-=rnocrary

th~ a.dni~istr::l..t.iv-e: assistFl!"1t. Th.3.t is one \-",ho i~ a,board.

It could ",it'v;,r be th.,; acministr3.tive ai.de, that is the

fourth on~ do~~,~~d th~ last on~ dow~. If you did that,

you \';ould h~ r-<::.rluci~.qthis hy .$7915, \<.~hich,.yould 1~ave.

th~ smergency fund r~0u~~t $45,166. That is differ~nt

than I discussed with th9 Gov~rnor but I didn't rsali~s

that th;, on-;; of the tHO TE's is the administrativ,,"

1m. BIXBY: Dr. Barn-es, if I m'iY i:;,';:,;.rrunt

for iust a Mom~nt, th~ adni~istra~iv~assista~tis a s~atg

104Office, so I Hould sugaest if it is th>l clease of the

Board to reduc-e thr.;nU!l1b~rto four, that th'""admini strati ve

assistant be on~ of those eliminated and ths steno-cl>lrk tHO a

the bottom be eliminab!d.

That \'laythe adrninistrativa assistant could be

co~tinuinq in a loan canacity until proner budgetary

action.

DR. BARNES: That would maka $35,127 if Iadd th~m correctly.

MR. BIXBYi I come un with 36,097. That is

cont3.nui:1g the 6500 for additional assistance.

LT. .--l.J.r~l:, : Unu'Sr \-lnat vou all ar~

.I

t3.1ki~q about th",.n,the Board I s motion Hould be to at'prOV9

th? nos:.tionc; !ios. 1, 2, " and 'i, in this qrouo, h'\ve Igot th~ riqht ones?

I.m. BIXBY: Yes.

LT. GOVER1:OR LEE: And th.,; No. 3 on'S, th-.;

ac1min.:.strativ'e asr::.stant, t'lould contln~~ on loan from

MR. BIXBY: That is riqht.

LT. GOVERNOR I,F.E: Is that servi:1q any uf'"ful

purnose doina it that way or are we just bei:1q difficultfor no qood r~aso~?

0105

10:;

~m.BIXBY: In reducing th6 nU!:lher of Pi!rmanent

nosi tions, of cours""" the Board ,,'auld he estil.blishinq _..:. the

Board '...ould allo,~ a l5.ttle bit of tim..; to evaluat", th~

op~ration as it oroc~gds. It is v.~ry younq, in on~ra.tio:l

actuallY onlv.for a littl~ OVEr 8 !:lonth.

I might mention that th~ oriainal hill setti~g

u!",th';o niv:'.sio:1 of stat:"'. DocUIn"'.ntscalled for a

LT. (;OVI:R?lOR LEE: That "laS. ch'l::1aed.

MR. BIXBY: T~at was chanqwd to th~ S£cr~tary

of StA~~'S nff.~c~.

./.~.:: ",:,\-.,. _. :.:1 \'d.t h Dr . Evsrs-c ....in's

SllOry? ?her~ is a man drafting l"'.gislation, a full-tim~

staff, "'or1':e<1hard v'Oar-round, ':1aturall~' J,muary,

110'"' ",'ou 1<1 you "lor}: Hi '-:h thos'2: p""on19?

I.m. COLBERT: I hav"? ,.'ork""d V9rv carefully

I think th",y

106

I\DLRCOl'\Jllittee, v"-ry clos~ly ,",'ith th,;m.

IIR. r,OLDS':i'F.IlJ:\'1hat is th.'\t ADLR?

I'R. COLBERT: l\dministra'd.v'"" Executiv.". and

L".qisla'dve r:'":v!.el'/C:>!'Un:_tt-;~'S.'rhat has a qro.at d"al to do

~ith t~= on~ration of this.

your offic~ and this office?

HR. COLBERT: !lons ,.,!-latsosv"r. Ther~ is a

comrnuni~v of int~rest in s~~ing tha~ certain things ar~

don~ nronsrlv hu~ oth~r than that, no.

HR. r.oLDSTF.Pl: And vou hav.; the ~xT)",r'c:i~.:

~~ your cff~c~,ju~t li~~ Dr. ~v~rst~inwill hav~ it?

LT. C;OVBmlOR LEE: ':i'h'i'.s;:;are .;;):scuti ve crd<"rs

and requlations that al"", b'=.inq nuhlish'~d.

belonq in ths Executi v~ D'~nartm~nt.

1m. C;OLDSTEI:l: No question about that.

th'~ bill first ~~<'!ntb,.

I,m. "OLDST1'1:1: I l-!ant to be sur-=. ther',., is

coor<1ina.;..:ion. I knC\.] W'=. ha',,,, :.TI our shoo. ~,~ hav,," to

writ~ manv admi~istrat~v~orn~r~, and they hav~ to ba

0107

",

1C'l7

corr~ct?IIR. COLBERT: Yes. l'r~ ~.'ork v'2.ry closely with

1m. r,OLDS'l'I::Il'l: Th~ l\~torn "'Y r,sl":;oral r"vi"'I-'s

our drafti'1Q of thos~ articles. In fact MOS'.:;of th"ID ar~

\,'ritto.n hy our Assistant l\ttor:1-=Y r,~nerals ~'ho hav,.

the leQal "x,.,".rtis~ so \~e COInDly",i th th"" law, comply

h'h'"n th'?y ar"! Dublish;od, if you don't, WF.. ar-s

suhj'?ct to b'?i~q rsvo.rsqd hv a court of law. I just

war.t to be sur.; P'S have th", Drop,,-r coordination. I

und~r~tand",h3.-:' has t:> h~.

LT. r,OVnmORLEF.: Th., originaJ v".rsion of

this hill h~d it diffsr".:1tlv.

HR. GOLDS'].'::!!l: I can u:1dsrsta:1d Hhy.

LT. GOVF:PJ!OR LEE: Som~ strang":;! idea th'~~

pickEd un i~ P~~~sylv~~ia.

r,OVEPJWRTl\l'rr;S: Doss this take th'3 olac" of

\1hat ~.'? havs h'S?:1 :1ormilllv doing?

DR. BAR:rr.s: Y~5.

GClVEP.::OR TAI'rES: In wri tir.q our rul "-5 ar.d

r-egulatio~s, hav3_nq th~m go .throuah the:. administt'a";:i v.~

0108

108

DR. B.7\WlES: Th~y \~ou1d still go through €.ach

do.partmsnt. Th,~ nrob1o.m, "!'lch denartmant had a'different

siz-e, diff"!r-e~t forM, so it was confusinq to the nub1ic.

This \'TaV the.y all com~ in th~ saMe siz€ a!1d un5.form

documgnt.

1.1R. (;OLDSTEIN: That is th;; next qu-astion. After

ws qo throuqh all ths nrocedur"! of qstt~ng ths uniform

r~qulat5_ons ,.;"r5.tt~!1by tha .1\ttorn.oev G~n'eral, assign6d to. our

offic~, it is nuh1ished, tho.n you compile it in this

/m. COLDERT: That is right.

1'11\ •.: .}...... , de you?

:.m. C()LBJ:RT: l'lh3.t \-'e do is that "'S of'i:~n, in

goi-,q '.:hrounh, \oN r'2ad v<:.ry carsfully th~ r~aulad_c:1s th:::.t arc

5ur'Y:'titt-e.d to us. V~ry fr';!qu",;:n"::ly, unfort.unat-=ly I \o.'~ fi~d

l~:1!]u-?q'S that is uncl'73.r to tts a~d ,....~ !.lust th:::1 q,d; hack !on

touch ~'it.h \.]hosvsr draftsd. thes,;, to se-<.exactly ".h3.t

/11<. GOLDSTEI!<: But r,ow if we h3.v~ -experts

lik~ in tho. Sales Tax and ~lcoholic Beveraqes, that tixpertise

is has,;d ovo.r 25 or 30 Yf'.ars dS3.linq \o.'ith the trad •.,

d~.aU_nq \d th ths n-?onl"J j.n the husi:1"ss. You may have

olr)~

109

laud'O, hut I1q has a th'?ory. His th ~ory may he al i".oq,,-ther

diff-?r'Ont from \~hat th~ nrac'::ical appr:)ach is to a

regulation.

HR. COLBERT: No. 1'1"-never ch,mq"'. th<? language

of th", 1,1\-.' \..'5_"thout the clos<?st consultation \~ith th~

d~n~rtM~~~that has cr~~t~dit.

HR. GOLDSTEIl1: I see.

l'!R. COLBERT: H~ \orould=:1' t. do th~t. 'N~do not

do that.HR. GOLDSTEIll: You '.:ouldn' t hav,; th", Harvard

s:.1'1'11v don'"\: qO in th",r'~ and chang"> th", lanquaqs of th"

r~9ulations that ar~ submittsd to us. It is always dons

i:1 co~sul tat=.on .

. HR. GOLDSTEIN: Aro. th~s", suhl'1itt",d to you

before nublish<?d?

l~R. COLnERT: Yes, that is riqht.

IIR. GOLDSTEIll: In oth€r \~ords, b'9for<; th-=y

ar~ ,..,uhlisho.c1 and hecome a r"'C1ul~t5_on they ar", submitted

~I

0110

II

110

HR. COLBERT: That is right. They at"i' ado)"lted

by the tim"! th~v get to us. The d~nartm"2:nt has tah,r.

its final action and is submittinq tham to us as

nronos"d r~qul.'ltio:1s t,'hich ths.y \d.sh pd.nts.d 5.n th.: l1aryland

Rsg5.ster.

LT. GOVERnORLEE: At \,hai:. noint do th"y acquir~

full leaal ~ffect?

MR. PHIPPS: Not until 45 days after this

.iR nuh15.sh-sd, ann in our cas~, \>1~ nut ths notic~ i~ the

local nSWSDBner. You notice. on naqe 128, this is a

hearinq on ons of these Nov~mber 16, 1974, which is a

HR. r,OLDSTEH1: I don"~ have that nage.

DR. BARneS: Ther~ ar:e tHO s'~ctions, t\<..o issuES.

HR. PHIPPS: Th..! nub15.c h'i>arinq \".£11 hi' h.-.ld,

and t"9 still ca,l rsve.t"SR or ch.'lnqe this r"e:qulation.

HR. COLBERT: That is right. Actually, it is

a ~O-davn~riod. Th~r~ is a fin-day waitinq n~riod; after

it h'ls anDsaredin the Reqi.ste.r for tha first tim,; th"an

the d9Dartnant must ~lait at least 60 days be for.; it

can be run aqain and adopted rsqulaticn. That 60 days

allows ther" to be a hearing, nuhlic co~m9nt, any

IIR. GOLDSTEIn: Dur:.'.1'l that tins you ca:1 re.vis.~l

0111

II

111

H~. COLB:r:R":': That :l.s riqht.

L'!'. t:;f)\7l'P1)0R LF:F.: That is a'?:1srallv ths sarns

as th9.P~dsral R~nist..;r. A qreat deBl of stuff co~eq

or I-Ihatsv-;,r. '.:hat n",.V<iraoes a:1V fartt,-:r.

I'R. COLBERT: P.xac'::ly.

LT. f:0Vf.R!!0P LEE: If a nronosal 5..:1h?r'2: is

subs~.nu'!~tlv suh;'?ct to a nuhlic hearina 3.nd then is

arne'1c1<>d,do'?.s t"e fi.n"!l versio:1 aet renr5.nt"!d in this

docurn<'::;'::1t?

;.m. COLBf.I''':': y .~.q •

LT. G()Vr.IU,0RLPF.: I thin~~ :.. is a v~ry qood

LT. r.rWF.R!lOR LES: l\r"", coni'?!'; of t'1s l'aryla::d

R~qist~rdistr!hut£d for fr~~ to ~tateaq~nci~~or do th~v

h~v~ to n~v?

'-'0 PHIPPS: Tl-j,,!var-:>.:-lot. 25 bucks n~r n-?rson.

r'~R. CnLBEHT: No, ths lat.' only T)rovi.d~d for

0112

112

llR. PHIPPS: Rtaht.

r,T. r,OVER!WR LEE: That iR l'<candalous.

m~.PHIPPS: H~ ar-e navina for them.

,'m. COLr.ERT: Th~ \~hol~ nrobl'"m th:r-=. vias \,:h=.r."

c]:) you st':).., cr!.v,i.ncril.pav th"" fr~,,< coni'es, sinc~ t,hi c; is

a co~tlv~nt~r~ri~~1th~r~ is ~o question ahout that.

I'P... f'OLDSTEIN: Do "ou nrint thi s u~d-=.r bi.d?

~m. COLBERT: Y",s.

~IR. r,OLDS':'EIN: \'lhat comnany is printing it nOl'I?

11"t. COLBERT: l\ comnar.v 1:'1ovl11ill'<ths L"gal

""11.. rOLDSTp.I;,l: iTohodv l~ :-!:3'.'rvlandca:1. t~rint this?

I ~v~r cam~ aboard.

'm. f'OLDSTF.IN: Vou only hav~ 0:1€: hidd-ar?

'Ill.. COLBFT1T: This v'as 0:1« hic1d~r ",i.thin th",

1m. r-0LDs'.rcrr: Bo\ol oft',m do you nut thi.s out 0:1

>lp. COr,PEP,T: T'!~ contract 1"rov'.c1"s for annual.

0113

1131m. r.()LDS'I'EH1: You hav'O to mail this to thsm

or no th'!.v COI'1<; do"'!} and nick it un?

ml. C()LDF:RT:

no t~~v co~~ and nick unor do you mq!J it to PhilHd~lnhia?

PR. C()LBr:RT: Actuallv h: i.s mailsd in 1'aryland.

Nno n1.YS ths: sal~~ tax on th~M?Do 'lOU 311 collsc~: a sal£s tax 0:1 f;h.~s" boo"s?

I'? f;nI,pr:R"':

'11'. r.OI.DSTr:I!-I: I ~M ao~~q to ch~c~ ~hat out.

I~ is m~'iob to col1~ctth~ ~alss tax.

You ca~ s~11 it ~o th~rorntrol1~rl5nffic~ a~d W~ ~~ll a~t a c~rtif!c~t~. Ifyou ~Kll {t to th~ aenaral nublie, 'lOU ast ths tax or

0114 ,d.c!: Ul' th'\t !;:lsn(' to offs"'': this mO::1"V. Okav.

114

LT. r,OV~RHORLEE: ?hat is what hRnn-ans ~Ih"n

DR. BAR'.1ES: Th~. s nrol ~ct srould )0-;; J.n nart

i.f '1.0': PDollv s<:lf-'lun'"lori:5.nq.

dOl'.~th<; cO~1:trihutio:1s to trv to 1"'3.]:"l it that "I~?

I'll.. r,OLDSTF.Hl: I ,./ould thi~k th", cl ",rk of ths

court, r,,!qist'?r of: ",ills. ?v'~rv aoency ,./ould "/<l.nt 3

con,,:'of this.

11R. COLP.pT<T:

Roh"rt, can vau conduct

1m. COLBF.R'r: I.lith difficultv, hut I think

LT. r,rWERNORLEI:: This cro,.d is h"!re onc,"

SO 'rOll ca71 al'H~vs com<a hack.

r~p... COLRr.RT: V-erv Good.I\

LT. r,OVFRllOP. VT:

""

(

0115.

115

~1R. "nr,nSTEIN: I MOV"" \0'" a.nnrov~ ;robs I, 2,

4 and 5, as s~t forth i~ th~ It~m GEE 5-~.

r.ovrRilOH Tl\I'1ES: I 5",conn th", motion.

I~T. r.OVER:!ORLEE: not5_on dul v ",ad~ and

s?cond~(i to cr'"at~ thos~ four jobs, and I..•i thout obj'~ction,

50 ord~r",d.

rlR. COLBERT: Thank vou.

l'P'. "OI,DSTEn!: You <lr<>.\o'''llcom~.

LT. GOVERl,ORLEE: Is that th'? '?nd of the

L'I'. (:C'VLRi:n?,r.r:r: Lau:Ls, do you \o.'C\nt to ~tart

1m.• GOLDSTFI~l: I think I.r" should start \.,:1.th

~~dV'~ aq~ndaand GO riaht on throuqh.LT. r.0VERNORLET:: In the first IP. it"rns --

'm. GOLDSTEIN: It'?m 8, nag'" 9, is th-s first

0"''" I had a 0\1"'.5<:io •.•on.

1,T. rDVEP}10R LEE: Paq'2: 9, okay. That is

~'oor'" 's Run. n",rr inq Run.

HR. GOLDSTEI~l:Is this th" full cost of this

0116

116

1m. GOLDSTEIN: Sir, 0:1 P3.q~ <1 of "!r. Heuh~ck' 5

aq".!'!da, Item ~10. 8, c;anj_tilrv f'lciliti"l', s".~'aq.;. 10.;1:1of

19(;7, Joh ~10. r.-2~0312, :t!'! (Tuot".«, n.,riod (13, BalU.:ror".

Ci.ty, rfoor'~'~ nn!1, II.c.;'crinq PU'"!, H~ ara q:tvi.nq $223,125

i'l0.dit.:i.o':'.al !'lon,.,!. Honln tl1is cover th"i'. cost of this

nroi""ct?

m~ chC2.Ct: that. Y~s. It t'.'ill, h-::~causE. ther'~ ar~ ~o cth~r

co~t t" 9.ct s ~o h~ h:.n.

HR. r.nLDSTEP!, Tha!'!J: "on, sj_r.

1:P.. (:F:R'rl~A71: Th~r.q \..r=r~ ~ar 1i€r contracts.

LT. r.nvE~IOR LEE: ~h". 228,000 r".nr~se:1ts

t~~.c;t'lto:' c; 12 1/2 n'?rc-.;,,,tsh'lx':.of th", inflationary

~scal~tio~of this thinq, riaht?t'R. GF.!'.T~'.l\N: R!frh.t.

13, ..,;;q'? 15.

1'1'.. r.FHTnl\Jl, Pardon me. I had bett~r corrsct

that. This is o~lv tho. ".sca1~tior. on the first contract.

Th.:;r":?ar-e. i:.FO mor~ contr~cts to l~;~hid O~ this.

1m. r;OLDS'lTP;, THO Mor". contracts.

r

':

0117

II

"

,(

"

117

in the cost.rlR. (;flLDSTFIN: Okay. The. ot~"?r O:l~ y'€' hav~

alre~dy taken un, Blair.';

T,T. (;flvr.ml(lR LFT: PaG"l l5?

"lL (;flLDSTBI!l: y~s ,our-lie school s. 1'1,~.did

th'3.t thi.s l'1orn~nq.

LT. GOVrRllOR Lr.r.: T'<is on" should actu.?lly"

_ h? \.,ithdt"a •..~ i., this fot'l'l 0".caUS'2. it h'l.S he~n d£alt I-lith!i

in grt::~t~rn~t3.il, is t~at corr"J.ct?,.

LT. (;flVFP;lflR LEE: 1-",. at'''? out of your 1"'.aqu"'-

1m. !'PlTP.FCJ~: 1\11 ri.aht.

LT. (;()vr.PN()!1. IoCr.: !\nv oth"t's in this first

1m. r,OLDSTBI": no. 'l'ha';o if' th~ only ';or.ing

:;nR. Bi'.PNES: Thi.s !.s a t'"?suH: of a sut'v':y

"11

:1,-

")<. LEIns: You shotildn I t with'dia~l.this.

I\

0118

118

DIl.. Bl\R:IES, It'!l'l 19.

'111.. GOLDSTF.I:!, 1-)", annroved t'1is this r.!or:1i:'la.

I

Ii H"!. ai'lve !in un(lat~d r~l'lort.U

DR. Bl\!l.Nr.S, This is a r~nort to t~l-e.Board.

1m.. GOLDS'!'F.I1I, That :.s '::h.• hier r'('.nort d.ght

her", Blair.

LT. r,O"ER:IOR LF.E, Y<2s.

'IP.. GOLDS';'Fnl, Po", talk~n about Ilo\~!irn Cou~ty.

DR. BARNES, Th~ oth~r it~m was simnlv askinq

-for th~ men-?'! to nay for this r'?Dort.

1m. LF.HIS, It r~ally omiss~on of ths

MP... ~Or.,DSr:J,lF.I~J: It hri!1Qs us un to datv.

th~rscoMmqnda~~on is cov~r'!d rv th? $80,noo.

T!". r:mmRiIOR LEE, This is a documsnt of

"-nornOlls villu'!.

LT. ~()VETU:()RI,F~: Co~i?.s should h-:! ~'.;.r.t to t~z

01111

11'1

Smithsonian.

L'!'. r,OVER'10RLEE: llay I h:1V~ a Motio:'} that

!t~m5 1 throuah 17 b~ annrov~d, th~n?

~IR. r.OI,DSTr.IH: I 50 mov?-.

r,OVFRWlR':'AHF.S: S<ocond th.; moti.o'1.

I,T. G0VEPlWn LEE: Pi thout obi Bction, so

You hsqin --

on that litt1q Patuxent on~?

1.'1'. r,OVrP.710R LF.F.: !'To. I l1'i ss'?d on'~.

LT. ~()VF.ml0R LEI':: You have '10 nroh1.~m on t'1a':.?

!1R. ~OLDSTr:I;-T: no.

LT. 00Vr,PJ!~RLEB: Th~n make th~ annroval

ext'?nd to !';>'.ms 1 t!lroua1)18.

Lon, do 'lOll '"tnv"? 3.~..V qu~st:tO:lS on th~ Or'-:~Sn~c~?

0120

.'""

120I think tl-tat I~r.Phinns has all th9 information.

TI-t~ first ong I think is on It-;;m 8-11 and 9-11.

HR. f'IlIPPS: Hhite Plains R2qiona1 Park.

1m r.()l,DS'1'r.rl: 8-11 and <I-A ar€ l"Thib" Plains

R-;,qio~'ll P;;.r1:, ':'h~s", ac1d:.t5.o':1a1 costs for tl-t'l.t qo1f

course and tho. annur.t'?':la~c<e:s,is tha-:: right?

1m. PEIP':'5: ~hat i" riqht .

"R. PHIPPS: Voss.

"1', r.OLDST!'I!1: '1'h", :1"X'C i'C.".m, l(.'-.1\, d13';; h'l.s

"1<, 1'1'11'1'5: 17-7\.

,1:'. COT,Ds,:"rl: 1(.-.1\ 11.::c1 17-.1\, ~'ithdril\"n.

1-'''.• PI'1PPS: And Ul-.7\, P=. hav',< a corr;.c';:~.o:-:.

:1)~,PI'IPPS: Yo.s, sir. r'ontqom".r.y Cou:J.ty,

" Proqram ()nQ:1. Sn.:;c'S accru:..s:.tio~s I 3.:1d ~'.e. ft?~l th~y should

"av(~. 'l nor.o. ra1a':1c"!.0. nroaran a'1o should q.iv"? us SOI'1<O'of

0121

121":; th~ strC3am vallqy~ and 10c3.1 narJ: acquisitio!1s rath-er thanji.1

hi<;rh-cos't nronsrtv.Iti."

",.LT. ('()VF:RHfm LI'F': If this is nar'c of th'dr

" wh!ch nroi~ct5 t~~y~ick OU~ to submit?,.'. IfR. Pl'IPPS: 1'1'~11, \"''lohav., aot th~ conc"",,,t, th",

:: On~."l Snac'a Proc('c3.m har; h~,m to buy 1C!nd for th~ USB of

th~ ar'Sa ilnd not t'oea11v dovmtov'n locations.

LT. GOVERnORLEE: This is in a COU'1ty i.h3t

has alr ••adv a v<!rv 'Z:laJ:,orat~ nark nroqram.

1m. PHIPPS: Tllo.y hav"! a v.orv aoon,on<o',

LT. r,OVEPJlORI.rm: Pav'S }-."",n sinc~ tho<. tVl~nti",5.

~ULPEIPPS: rrhat.:.s tru£.

LT. r.OVI'RllORLEI':

/r

J

J:s.~nqi.v5.nq tham a h~rd t.i.m~ on th.ts. This y-'a!; not do~~

I'R. PEIPPS, ~lo, sir.

LT. (:CWI'P:l()RLEE: Can't: v:e do this, Lou?

1m. r,OI,DSTEI~l: !'1'S h3d 'i m'~atinq yo.stsrday,

17-A, huvinq a qasolin~ station in ~akoma Park.

LT. r.(WrP:IOR Lr:E: Vo.s.

01?2

.1

122

:: 137,425, and it is $44,00n for an ahandoned aasolice.,:j

" station to mak~ a narY. out of it. Ho\o.' can you do that

.. \o'i th state rnon~v? If tlontqo!'1ery County Nants to do i.t'.I.

,.ri. th t'J.z:.r non"2\1, l.t t~'?Mdo ~ <- 'I'hat: ;.S il.:1i1handon;;d~.....cas st~tiO~1on t~~corn~r of ~~stmorQl~~dand Carroll.I hav'~ h"a'?:1 hy t~~r-3 nrlny tj.r.1~s.

LT. GOVEP.NOR LY.:E: !3ut und<'.r th. (')t"~n Snac'Z la'.,.

I,

.,r1ontqor:1-"?rv, 1.;.1:-::; -:.he othc~r counti~!;, is ~ntitl-e.d to a

c"rta~,.., imount of mon.ov. of coursil the.v hu" a lot i.:o.

add:.tion to Hhat com".s throuah this lat~, hut if th2-v

iust r~cord ~~ votina no, aaainst ; .I •.." no th~ r~cord ".~O~It

shot .• J. am votina to huv il.'1al:andon.~.d aasoli'1-;, 5':'1i:.io'1

$Inn,nnn to i.:_'1.r it doP'1 a'1d d:.a un th", til"!}:"',

LT. GOVEml0R Ll.B: That ~s th.;ir nrobl~m.

I am t~~~rust~~of t~~t~x~ay~rsl~on~v and I ca~'t

I can't sit ~?r-~

oLD

123':

I, in goon cO!1sci~!:c'" to do i.t.

" ,'lR. GOLDSTEI:l:

1"!lat i t~m ar'! YOU taH:i.nq about?

It'!m 17-A, ahar.don~d qaso1in~

1m. PHIPPS: 16 a:ld ]7-]\.

I'n.. GOLDSTFH1: A", ara'1don:d qasolir.-e s'::at:,o:l

i:l Takoma P"rl:, zon~d C-:'. CO"'lmsrcial.

LT. (:rWEP!1On. LF.E:

I"'.: don't hurt th'S.M at all. .If

.: ..-_0 .•.• , But

SunDOS"'. -?v,;>,rv countv C'lrn"'. i':l h",r'~ and houqht cOImn*-rcial

nron-erty.J.T. GnVfm:;OR LEE: It de.n€.nc.s O~ th:;.

-t:hat.

s!.1cua.l;:ion. vou "av'~ :.'c CO:lfj.~.~dto a fix'?<1 '1r'!.a,

lIontr;onsr" Com',ty has alMo<;t <\ on-soMs-cdd s"uar~ rn5.1"s

of 13.~d, ~'qt'",~ \.,~. com~alonq and P3.V this ~:ind of r'r:.c~

for a~ ~r~~do~~daasoli~~station. I can't sit in qood

;,"

, lL4

0124 ST'",~dano':h"'1: $lnr). niH) '::0 t-=.a1:5.t dO\'/TI,d5,q UP the. concr;!t"

"il and th-a tan}:~ to rnak.:;. it uc:;ahl-s .."11" LT'. r:OVr.R'IOR Lr.E: Th~y have. bouqht vast rsach'~s

of und~vqlon~d land in tho. unnqr nart of t~~ county. If

.' '.:.h'''Yhav'"- Urha"l rsn'~\'lal nroj oct a'ld have to nlc!: U",,

"

.call thslr 0\'''' shots, sines it is in ,,-ff"2et t'l.d.r O\,'!1

;,mon~y... It is no':; a~ ~.f ,.,~""'~'t'"':? qiving i:h.'~m SOM~

di.scr~t~~O":1arvtv,,":! aLar.'":.. 'fh':!y a~t rsal1y v-e.ry fussy about

th:i,'3.

MP.• ('OLDSTFH,: I K'10l<'th~y q,,:t nuffv about

to t~ar do,.m .. I votsd' aqa5.nst it. l'j.;> h",ld it up.

Peonls a1:~ still livina in tho. hom~s.

1.'1'. r.O\'F.P-'!OR I.E!':: You a1:S talki!1q about BlOCK69.

tha~ thsv cams h~rs for, tsar do~m th~ homss, buy

rss:i.o';:'1t!.al hOMs" 'Inn tsar thsm dOHn \.'h€n vou can' i: buy

a homs in l'O:1taomsrv COU:1tyand mev'" th~m eut.

in good con~ci~ncqvot~ f~r that.

I can't

\LT. r:()VFP.~I()R I.r.r.: I eTOalonq \"i th you on th3.t.

'.\R. C'OI,DSTr.nl: As 0'1.'" psrso:! or. the" BOilrd that

0125125

LT. COUF.P!10R LF:E: Do you "ant to may.",.a

litt1'? d-e3.1 Hith 1T1'?,hos'.':? L~t'g l'?t th'?m hay,," 1(,-]\,.

, and hold bac1~ 17-.7\, recaus"" I think that coml'1'?t'cia1 is!!

1.m. C'OLDs'rr.J:!!: l'~t'''. I!:; ~-90, I doC!'t l:no\-l"

" ~..7hat 10'" dC?;l~ity r~sic1'Snt:.al T:'l~a"lS 5.n your county .., LT. COVF~NOR LEE: It means gono f~~t to a lot.

'In. r.OLDPTF.IN: That 1"ou1d he hier" d,,:;]s i ty ,

fout' and a hal f hOM".Sto an acr". If ~.'? follo~1 this

40.

T'l':'Y didn't hI" 5.t. Th",' ma~ is still in hus:.n'?gs. It

uniforM nol~cv O~ th~~.~ ki:1d of t.hincrs.

LT. r;OVEPJ'!OR LFT:: Yes, hut thq (1ll~~tion.s~i.ll

it :.s our MO:;~V to 1T'ak~ lik£ St=lnta Claus \,'ith. I thin~

1...: i.s tl:.~.:tt' !"'!:>l1~Vrnvsslf. "ThA."Cis phat th:~lat.] calls for.

I am

~ot fam!li~r with th~ land va lUGS ot' th~ arsa of VODtqOrn~ry

0126

I

",.'

'.~:126

:' Coun':.y.LT. r.()Vr:RNOR LEE: I fri'lnl;ly don.' t und-,orsi:and

J"~i

~1R. r.OLDS'!'T'J:.l: 19-A, ~('5,onnan acr~, 2.156

acr'«s.

,i:;

ho~~ is arou~~~S2,nnnif t~~v C~~ find s~~aq~,isn'~

3,bout no"'?

~'T"I.. r.OLl)S":'FI'l: Ii: has

I ; ust Ci'l'" t h'ar'" in aood

,..

'0127

".,

"

"

on trtat.

127

1m. GP.IES: ninht I put. som,; inforM'lt5.on out

I aM B:'..ll G'Ci".s i'l.!1dI I,'ork witrt th.~ Park and

\,

Planning in silv~r Snrinq.

LT. r,(WFRrlOP.LET:: It:'..s hiqh tiM? YOU

1m. G()LDSTr:rl: 1 thouaht. you I,'''.ro. a ffi'iM1Y-o'r

of tho. fourth estat., the nress.

!lR. G!Ur.S: I miqht 0". b",tt",r off at th;.s n::>i:1t.

~R. GRIES: Bill Gries.

nfl .• r,OLDS",F.I11: EOI'.' do 'lOU !"p.-:11 it?

MR. GRIES: G, n, I, E, S. The narticular

K".!1dall. nn~ of tho. hon".s is used as a nurso.ry horns

to U.v"! 5.'1 tho. !"lorn".as nar';; of ths.:.r "m"lovm"'1.t

agr".".m".nt, I ou".ss, and th". ar".'! tha~ is includ~d

last -/;\-JO acr.;;"; availahl<; in 'Iontaom=.ry H;.lls ar9a, I,'hich

I••ould h". !:orth of Ssmi.:1arv Road, and south of th.", bs1t\o.'ay.

0128

,"

,:'.~'hich \oIq h1l.v? had flOM?, I shouldn't fl11.VSOMS, I.!S h11.v"had

, ~xt-e.nsi.vs. dsrna.;,.d for th-a nroneri:v from the ci ~iz-:;ns I

128

)associ11.tionfl in the ar~a. Th~ nroDos11.l Has a matter of

.nublic h-sar:.nn. N-= ar~ itls-t imnl ~m~n.t:.nqOU'l"' adon~sd

LT. r,()\!lCHWmLF.I':: Is ":1,i5 th"! I"hol", nark?

rm, r,P.IES: This is ths ~!hol"! nar)'.. It is

jUflt t\-,o acr?s, 7\'; en"! til'1~ it "!<'l,Sids'1tifi,sd "l.S a U, S.

ncst office sit~ for Mo~tqOm~ry Hills station, which was

later, ~lans for ~hat ~~rq ].at~rdeferrsd and th~y ar~

qoi:la to f,<!, nutt:'-",a the nost offic? at 11.'1oth"-=10catio'1.

NR. GlUES: r"r. Ern"!st 1:'~nda11 1'!aS forl'1-=x

~~r~c~orfor th~ school for naa~s~n Washinqton.

sc'1001 o.,.,"ratol'. 1'", has th'? Alsx11.nd•.r Day School 0:1

t1~iv".!r=:ity R:}ulp..va-cd, TUfllhl~ I~n on ~-eorqia ]\v~nus 1

""

!,

after thsv t~11.r th ••. hous'? do',Tn?

I'R. r,lUES: !1r. 1\"'.~dalJ. I thin): is lettinq

. ! 0129

.,

129

"r~'?ln~.~q'J.er out in this. II"! is Clot having il. nrohlB1!l wH:h

..t~at :'..~th~ r~locatio!1.

T,T. C:O\lEP'!l()P' LEE: Hr. C'ri",s, sinc-;: I hav.;

.i'leld J assume th::;t th~ Pi'lrl: and Pla:1~inq Commiss3.on has a

subst'l.n'd.al numh'?r of narkla'1d acquish:ions ~hat qualify,

'\-Iould qUillifv und'?r this. l']hy do th",y ahmys insi.st on

s'?ndino th~s~ h~qh-Dr~C~ n'?r acr~ or p~r souar'? foot

''?vsn i tsms ov'>.r her," to iln:10Y/.!r. c:oldst'?in \-Ih'?'1you k'1.oW

!1R. ~Plrs: L-;:,tT:1~S~.~ if I can oSx!"Jlain :..t for

a!ld also ths bonds ,-'hich W'2.,..culd 5,,11, bas,,<l on \:h.,.:

. s-;.rvi':'\CT t~~p~onl~ n~Ar hor.l'~1 so th~y y'ouldn I t h::lv-e. to qO

. u!"county .to th«. r,:qional n?rl:s a'1.d stream vall-ay Darks un

that ;.s a ~..al): to nark, and they sa:.d that W~. should

.sxnand our acqui~ition.

(•

'.,

130

;: snoClsor<ad throuClh l'ous3.nCl il:1d Urban D~v<alonm'2.nt. ~lh"n th,<"

council urCl"d us to €.xnand our nrOCTr.'1m,",s had to b~ vo.ry

hO:1est ,.,ith th~m a!1G say if ",s~xnand our local parY.: acquisitio;1S

it will U5~ uo Mor~ fu~d9 tha~ ~.r~ havs ~vail~))l~to co~tinua

our curr~~trat~of acnuisition, so if ws would ~ut our

In 1')<';9 th", cou!,cil said we ,",ould li!:e to hav.s

acquir<;c1 )w P3.r!: '1nd Plarminq Commissio.n. NOHthe reason

a nroqram ha'J"d on Cl~n~ril.l tax"'.s, th<~y Han':"d to nrovirh,

.. sP'?nd thilt mo"'.~" 0'1' nar!:s to S'2rv'? o..v«rvnod", not jus';:

If tho"-,, \1Ould buv r~.a.'_onal narkla:1cl and s'.:rsan

vall."y lilnd -sv<>rybody ~.-ould h" nay3.n'1 a fair shar,;' f~)r

If "'-<1 \ ..'ould

hav~ aCC1ui't"'?.c1 all tb~~.~la;\ds \>lith Innd tax~s asr..erai.:'2d

0131

,..,"

::

shar~ aeeordi~qly.

It s~~m~d to h~ tha h~st nlae~ to hr~ll.k

tho;; local nll.rk~, s.;,rvs th"! u~ineornori'l'i::~d areas of.,! Mo~tnonery Cou~tv ann thos~ Il.r£ll.s in th~ mstronolitan

131

at

(

r~qion~].di~~rict,thos~ ryro1~cts fund~d with tax dollars,;

that ",'~ra q",,,,,rat'?d from the n"lr1: 'ca>: that th.! Commi.!3sio~

has and hav," th.? no,,-loeal nar1:s I.,hieh s'?rv'? all ar",as

of th'! cou"t', ;.ncludinq r.ai thsrshU1:q 'inn Rockvill s

nayi~q their fair sharA. throuqh th~ q~r.eral countv tax'?s.

)->acl~to th'? RO'l.rdof Puhl:.e 1'lor]~sI.,i.th nrojsets tha'c I.J."fund,

h-ae'l.us." it "'as Nlrt of th ..."county s.>:"eutiv,",' s hudqet

')olicy th;:t Parks il.'"!dPlanni'1q Comm~.s~icnh'l.s th~ "taff

Th~~is vhy th~ funds that are brouaht i~~o

Comrn.i~sio':1~ .: ."--~

132

If. ,..''? coulil na::':1tai!l our ?ad: nroaram

I,T. r.nvrPJ10R!,rE: Th" unshot of :.'c is thsn:'

".'

".~ithou.t; i.:;on~rn~.z~~.q.I.~h~rlo,.,l":"\COU7'ltV nar}:s or th-~i:i:1; uncou~".:.yn~r}:s.'J •.'

0132

It is h~~na houaht bv th~ countv

LT. r.O\'r.~.'l()R LEE: You all ar'! s':.uck \-,ith this funny

s':uff .

~.I,

!,T. r.OVEP~lOR LET:: Are. yOIl huy:'.nq any s1.:1.">,;lm

~':R. ~P.ISS: Th~ county l.S dcinq that..

a qood t.3 million n v~ar sn'?nt hv th~ countv on str~~~

valh~y nar~:s.H~ sn'nr1 ahout ~3 mi.llion a v,>ar on

local n~rks, so ,.,~ ars trvinq to, l:..J:'" I sav, havs th~

( '~.'l.s:."t' to handl", for !''irk and Pla:1:1ir.q Commission to do

';

0133

-,133

,"

q~ar Un and a~t additional s~aff.

r,T. -(:Ovp,mlOR LEE: Nhat vould haoo-an if the

Board of Puhlie Norks just adamantly r~fusgs to ho~or

th,"",s aeou! 55.tions? Do",s 5..t 1'1",,11:1 J.1ontqomsrv County a~ts

don?- out of its shar? of Onen ~naeq mon?"?

rIP.. PHIPPS: Th.,;.yl'l3..l1 los" all aV"lilabl,; mO:1'lY.

rIP.. GIUE~: I don 't k;,oi'l hOI': I-Ja wi 11 handl ~ it.

LT. (:OVERNOR LEI': Us'~ it on \-!hat?

rm. PHIPPS: All ava:'.lahl'9 shar~ of Op~n Spacs

oro;sc1:.

in th= nroqram I-'hieh I-!'=Imuld 1:'J:9 to a""t into the count". If

I am sur"! that Dr. Hanson and other

rnsmhsrs of the Park and Planninq Commission ar~ goi~g

to I"ani: to say som"!th5.na about it, I gU"lSS as a staff

nerson I don't J.:nOl-,',-,hat altarn'l.t5.v"!s thqy !lave, but as a

staff p~rSO:lI am ~xn~c".:~dto nr~n~r~ the annlicati.ons and.-

fil,s thgm and tr" to hr:'.:1<Tth'= 1'1011=" hack to th~ county.

ol3~

"

134

thsss nr:,c~5 !.:.hantlr. (;oldst",in or anybody ",ls''L

"

I think that th€ COU!ltv councilor

th-e COU"1tv ~.x'Scut:.V~ is not in lov-e. with th-e.m-a.ith~r.

1'1",Hant to orcv5.(h ths narks t':1at a'c';; rS'1U!'~st-=-dal1d are

':.;obliqat.i.o~s . Th~ one particular prop~rty hsre, Takoma

"

Urb~~ Par}:, j.s riqh't ~djaC~:lt to th-a ~10:1tqoM~ryC:)u~ty

I \"ouldn I t 1:no\" 1,0\" manY hu;,dr",ds of old'"r

to us for ~~~ last four or f!vs v~ars.

LT. ~f)vr:Rl1nR I,Er: Th~t:..s this qas si:ai.:ion O:1~.

CRIES, T~at is.th~nas statio~. TeJ:cma

I undst'stand ':h"lt \'!as ,In auto deal '.':rshin, not so much

a c.~.~lqrc;:-tin. I au-=.ss you C3.~ I t di vorc-:!. thq -::,...10

activi.ti<05. If you hav,,- on,,- you hav" th'" othsr usually.

I m.l.qht add that th-: nron"rt\' is curr"r.tly

u':1d'~rcO'1tract il!1d ooi:1o to ssttl'o!Inent at the low""st

LT. ~()Vr.R~1()RLEE: As u!1ati:.rativ~~as thesa

(,

0135'.

.,

135

county cou:1c5.l ann th? county ")xqcutiv"? and th." Park

and Plannina r.ommi~sion, all th~?~, and if it is nart

of a' sum of mo'1",,'!t,hat"ontgom"l-ry County is -antH:l?d to

\')",11, ,"hat ~.S ,!our r" actiQ:1

th!'i+; .i.t <1o:.S'1 't onlv '\r>nly to rlo!ltaon",rv county hut. j.t

(I

LT. (;OVfR':0R I,!::r.:: I ,.'ould Jy" i'1clinsd to th:.~k

::

mo~€.v.

furth'?r stud'!. Aft-ar i"urthsr s.t-udy,:hat r'~ally

n.ann~n<!d?1.'11.PHIPPS: \-le I-'-,:,rs going to psrso"lilllv

" , 136

,1

013(. 'i Hanson, th~ Park and PIann~.l1q Conmi~r.ion ahout th". ,..,roj'lcts

and thsn I am sur~ h", ,,!ould r"qu';;,st th",y hoe bac!: 01'. tho;,.

c;ovr.p.~rop. TAI'IF.S: Por furth~r stud'!?

1m. PHIPPS: Y~s, sir,

c~rtain ".:h".,!\.!ould hoe. hac!: on thoa n~xt ags:1da?

tfR. PI!IPPS: y~~, sir.

r,ovr.m!OR TAI'IRS: This is ",hat I h<ld j.n m5.:1d,

If tha".: is \"hat th,:'1 ar':? I"ithdral''TI for, and th.a Ds!,artn~:1t

of Natural R=.sonrc?s \"j,sh",s to 00 hack a:1d talk to ':."'~

locn..l HontC!oM<",,;ry Countv n~on19 I think \"'~ should qj_v.~ th~rn

~hat onnor~u~itvto do it.

LT. r;OVr:R!'lOR LEE: !Juster ~a'JS ha ):nm'15 tl]",1'

ago s",'1."ra1 "ro; '?ct~ that th"'. BO"lrd turnsd dm-.,:, a~d ',"'"

went ah9ad a~d nurcha~£d r~qard]~ss of using our ~unds.

I.I'

0137

il""I',~

, "m. PHIPPS:

137

I b~li~ve it would, V~5.

That doesn't solve anything.

HR. PHIPPS: Ira.

1m.. r,RIF:S: I aM sur"! ~h~ countv ~s going to

put into our cani tal iMnrov-::.r:l'~nt nrogram, our a~f'';;:lcy

has thq r"sno~sih5.l:i.ty of :lmnlsmentinq th'l.t nroqram, so --

\ole aros r",ady to ao ah",ad I,dth ~.t regardless of Hhat funds

HQq",t but H"?o cortai.nly ",auld annr"cii'li:~ g9td,nq as much

sunnart as we can,

r,ovr:ml()R TI\1'WS: U'1d'~r thas.,; c:.rcumstar.c'.'s

llR. PHIPPS: That :',5 d,qht. Thsv ,"'auld US'l,

MO~~V for oth~rar~~s j.~ the coun~v?"P-. PHIPPS: y~s, s5.r.

I'R. ('RIPS: T".", thi:1Cj I "li",r.t to noint out is

0138

.,

'.138

:;and thi_ncrs lib~ t'13.t t.o surmort our nroqral'l, and it is not

.qoi.ncr to frs~. u,., anv l'lon~y for us so th~t. \-1,,!- can' o,!.Xn",nc1

":!3.:1V ~.r. thO) country, I qu~ss. 1-10=. ar',. r,,"cOqniz'2c1for having

GrWT:T(;:rlRTAI-ms: Ar';: t!1'2S~ options to buy?

no. Th9S~ ar~ l~nd nurchas~

contracts. ~'l~h~v,~comm:i.ct'?d ourh":ll V~s to buy th~

I ~!oul(l J.iy.'" i.n ord"r to boa fair to both

onnortu~i. o':.:y to q:> hack f~r a!1o'::h~rmo;:th.

d"'lay it a month. It •..'on'l; i\ff=.ct the. nric-.c;, ~JJ.ll it?

HR. GRIF.S: Ho.'i

~m. PllIPPS:

It will qo

0; \.l!'.n.q.r co~tract.

1m. GHIES:

or n~xt, })ut d~lavinq i~ i~n't qO~~q to chanq~ our

'.

!' 13B-A

0138 at''''. qoi~a to ao ar'~il.d "d.th it and H: ,,"'on't chanq.,. our

'.

.:

i~t"'.r"'.~t in annlvinafur Mon"'.y.

LT. r,0VEmlOR LEE: I'1 otl]',~r \"orcl", it "':>'1' 'c

,'.

GOVERl~ORTAHES: Gov".rnor, that i~ a r",al Pt'ohl'~m.

I thouaht if ";:hqv \~,,<nt hacl: to Dr. Hai1!'on hs nay com" hack

LT. GOVERnORLEE: \~hich Ol'l',S '?rs vou t"lJd."1a

abou'::?

"LT. GOVr::m:ORLEE: That ;.s 19-1\.

LT. GOVER"!Or.LEE: 17-A 3.l'ld 19-1\.

1m. GRIES: 17-.'\::.!, T.'l.J:ol'l<J. ~~otcr pron'"r::y :nxt 'co

lTill!'; OtFCl ,,)i'.ry..

!1R. GRIES: Riaht, brick and frame.

LT. GOVER'lORLEE: This 5.5 aoina to h", a '.:\.Jo to

O~~ v~::'?:, I c?~ tc..ll you. Th~ rnot5.o~ is qo:..nc;to h~ to

0139

";1.,;,

i d"!fe.r 17-1\ and 11l-7\, 3.<: th'3.tcorr'O!ct?

139

(;()VF.R:J()RT.7\Nr.S: \'.7~11, l'7ith th'? und"!rst3.ndinq

that ,"'0. hav"", ;'l.n onportuni ty to h'"ar Phinos out aqain. I',,>.-" ,

.,

may h3VS a chana"'-of hsart. Po. is a fl"!xih1e ir.dividual.

G0VF.P.'lOR T.7\l'iF.S: L.~t's hrina 3. t D3Ck.

LT. GOVEm~0R Lr.F.: 1\11 riqht. Th~ motion then

is to d~f",r 17-7\ and 19-1\.

qO~:~qto l~t th~ s~~iorcitizs~sh~v~ a littl~nl~c~ to

r,f)VFP.clOR'l'l\HES: L"t I s l~t th<?m come bac!': to

r~R. nr:UBr:CK:

140

llR. ,nnDLF",O!l: No r-esolution on that.

to f5.!l(1out \.'hich onqs ar" d",f""rr~d. Ar~ vou qoinr; to.-

LT. r,OVE!'!1OR LT:E: I kno\o1 • I am just trying

d.qfr~r ~vst'v-::h:..na th3.t ~3S PontqoITl~.rv Coun"cv I 5 ~am~ on it?

Is th~~th~ nol~cv?lR-A is annrov~d.

/f

1m. PHIPPS: H",r." is a nevi IG-A, littl-e li<sS

MO;1°.y •

LT. C:(Wr.m:OR LET:: T'/hat is this?

~~. P!'IPPS: IS-A.

'~R. c:nLDS7FI?!: IG-A, 17-1\ and 11)-1\, you \'Iil.nt

to ch,~ct-:out. 1'1"" annrov'~d 18-1\.

IIR. PEIPPS: 13-7\ i!" a 1;.'.:tl<; h;.ss nsr acr.s,

11.""" ~~~tsad of 15.

1m. PHIPPS: Y"':5 f sir.

LT. c:nVrmiOR LET:: ;'7l1'.l.tt.'as th-e orob1 sm \~ith

l~-A? Thnt i~ ~om~thir.q--

"R. C:RIRS: That is a City of Rockvills nrojsct..

LT. r.OVRR:lOR LP.E: Is tf\at had too?

I!R. m,IES: I don' t l:nm~ th~. oron1sm.

F'R. ESI{EN: I!"1 our 't""?V:t<?H th-=..re nr~ some riqht

I

0141

141

t:ly.sn into consid<oration ,..•hsn th-ey apprais",:d th~ place.

T~sr-e is ~ q~S tr~nsmission riqht of way. w~ did

r~qu~",tth3t on"?. B~for~ \<'s rsqusst.;o this be d.,;f:,rrsd.

!1~X": t5.M~.

LT. r,OVPRNORLEE: Hi-A is d~fsrr'~r1 hy

Cr.~::'tT"l':3.~v:>'t:i.:;,q i~ th~ ~~rra.:tiv-~ a:-•.d 1~-.2\ :.5 rl~f'~Lr-.:;d'hy

a "Ct'.'O to o~O;vct~, \o1ith th'a Chairma~ vot:.nq ).:1 th'2

!1'£.~q~-=::..v~A.~d J.~-;\ h?!~ ~ suhq.!..::t'tu-::io!1. Is 18-.1\ ol:ay?

J.1R. PHIPPS: Y'2.S, s~.r.

HP... r;(H~DST~I7r: ~l-tat ~_s okay.

nn.. r.OLDSTEI:l: You too!: un 28-A, you took

car~ of th~t, dur~~~ t11~h~ari~q. 29-~, you took carg

olA2.

142

1m. 1nnnLFTO!l: That has b<et'.n aODrov~d.

1m. (:nLDSTEIN: Discu~sion, s,"-", nots.

l.T. r,nVE!u.:nR LEI:: lmc1 yl~. h.a.vo. a motion to

nR. C:OLDSTEnl: So mov~d.

LT. C:(Wr.~•.j()R LEE: So mDved a~d s~cond~da~d

G=orq~, has that

I

"

that c1arif:'.,-,.d?

I

0143

143

1,'R. LF:HrS: Th5_s i.s for a l~as~ for th'!

nsnartn'?~t of. ~co""\omic at:d Conmu:"l.':.'ty D~V::.lonn.~~t to nov~

~nnrov~d a nurc~as~ of.

GOVF.RJ!OP.TAI'iFS: For th~ insuranc" fund?

a :>art of the.'= J'u.:'.ldi'1Cl '~o Ecoc:omic and Commu'1i.ty

PR. G()LDST~I'): I ",ant:~d

DR. DJ\R:!BS : '1'1'15.5 i~ aboli.tiO:l of 3. job.

1m. r.()LDs",:r.r),: R;i.aht.

\ I pa!1t-2.dto co;nnlir.1~nt

you. Thi~ 5.!) th-:? first t~_rn~. I scJ.~dh~r'l:?, co~(!ra-r.ulatj.o~s.

T~at is th->. t""!ason I ",ant".n to call vour att"!ntion to it.

144

I".: is v~rv r'lr",lv that you <;.v-2.r<;-=-= this hanp'.m.

; .•.... ....•

DR. Rl\R.'!ES : I nidn 't th~.nk vou ,.."ouln objosct to

I.'n. r.nLDS',TE1: I can't obi.;:ct.

\,-'1":'.:1 I lool-:"?r1 ov~r ~~~ ot~~r niqh~, conaratulations.

f

I ,.'ant'=.d that :h th.;, r'>-cot"d.

Th-= n-=xt an-= I havc. is GI-17, naq~ 17. Is

th~s a full-tinq ioh, S20,O~O a vc.ar?

LT. ~()Vr.R"!()R L;,~: Nhat di.r.:c".:i.o:'1ar.q 'ch-e.s~

n~.n~x.

he.el: •

It aiv~s us a ~rohls~ too.

DR. B?\R?!SS: t.,,~ "'~.lltrv .:~ as":

I~n. r;OLDSTEI!!:

0145

145

$ 2 n , "'11') ;!. y"'ar?

DR. nARil~S: ')'h~~' sav it is fu11-t:.m".

f;()V!'Rl')()R TAI'1F.S: I'Ih'lt itS<M at"e you 0:1?

"P" GOLDS':'!'I)): (;<>,n;;.ra1It~m 17-A, S"cur:'.i:i",-s

Conmi~sto~~r,rRisina th~ ~al~rvfrom $13,350 to ~15,00n.

GnV?R:'10P. Tl\1'1ES: Is 'that th'" on~ Ca1Ln"ay is

cO':',S:lo'=.r.ir:a i:aJ::.'1Q?

IIR. ,,()LDSTr.rl: I do~ I t r:no,",'.

()~-::::..•...' .

Hh.o is nav3nq for th;q~

"th~ ~ornt:r::a.-Y;:wo:l for Puhl:~c Dro2.Gc=.st:.r:g, H~:.ch r3.:.s'E.S

i.~:.s fn~d~ fro!'l c.ubscr.:tn~.:.o~s .t...:o do this H.::lll Str'.;".~-c

\,

146

(

claim as l-."inq O!1S of "th" h,;s~ of 2.11 of th'!M, ~duc;>.';:ional

this kind of ". ,:ipl",':ahl~ for tIle,,", f:.rst for th,,-

nroQucsr to CJO ov'Or ~,d r>3.ks ';:h~",lans ar.~1t'1":1 1'l.1',,,:r

for t1:>-o: '?-!1ti t'''' st'lff to C;? ovqr to no th~ 3.c'::ual filn:.nq

a~d o~..:!1~r\.~ork i.!1vol ,,~d in nrcrluc:...nq it.

:-Ut. c:nl.DSTEI!~: Ths.y hav-e to qo to Londo:1 'co

nroouc,q j.t?

DR. 13l1.Rm;S: Sir?

II

~ill rroduc~a rnonqy oroar~~h~r~ of siMilar natu~~.

:.s th e. h~'3'; I could q~t ou': of Dr. 1';riCJhts~f"ld"-r.

~IR. r,OLDS"'r.r::

Brit~5hIslss ~n 1~71, thrss v~~rs ~qo, a~d I ~:ondt,r~cl

0147

nroqrar1R .

147

DR. R7\RNr.S: I do:J.' t thin!: th~v ,..•ill do that.

I,m. GOLDSTEIn: T~'?n th<>.y will hav~ som,: oth"r

I \o''.l"'"\t',,-d to C'l.ll '::h~t to your att",ntion. Okay.

DR. B!\Rm~S: Th~.s 5.s ,,"xchanq'2 of faciU.ti..,s. Th<;

BBC Hill CO;;)." ov?r h"'r~ to (10 on", call<>.d th'~mo:-:~y

L'C'. (;fWr.R:lOP. LEt; :I\r", th.';.rB .any oth"'r,;

in -=;h~~aroun?

~!R.n0I,DSTEltJ: That ta]~es care of thos~

DO vou h<l.v-;;. a:1V i.d",'l ,,,hat th~ ':otal ccst

qoi","\a to l's? Do vau h'lv"'. anv doll'lr fiaur-a?

DF.. Bl\!"'.:lFS: I hav"". a l",tt~ r frOM Dr.

'm. GOT,DSTI:Dl: Total co"t?

DR. Rl\R~,rF.S: !Jo, s=_r. That. is ths pr'~l:i..minary

trins, a~d l~,nnn -- total co"t ~s S14,nsn. Th~ las~

qroun would he 11,300.

lIP'. r,O!'I:1STEPT: I" that add ",d to th.~ 14?

DR. BAR:1ES: iJo, s-'..r, tot.al of 14,osn.

HR. r:OI,DSTLlii: Tot:a 1 cost. Okay.

,-

0148

148

DR. DAR!lr.S: That is not s-(;at-;l funds.

und.".r stat~ nol:tc'~? ?!'.''!r~ ars six jobs u:::cl'2.rGI-24.

DR. BARNES: Thsv 3.r~ 10 n"rc~nt qsn'?:ral,

C)() n.~rcsnt F'~~(l~.t"al,a~d t~~ ~o~-nol::.c~ tvn~ of iobs, of

LT. Gm7r.R~!ORLeE: But this ::.8 u~ch'.r LL'\l\?

LT. (:O'.'T:P."J()P' Lr.r.: LE.II.Aqr-3r.t, ':1ct s11b1 -?oct

to or is :..t?

DR. BAInES: I 3.qr"".~.•

LT. G()VI:R.!!OP.r.r.r.: Th", '.:h::.u(Js rU:1 for ';hr,,=

".'~rs a:::clall of a sudd'''-:1th'=y turn un in our huclg,=.t.

!lR. G(lLDSTF:I~l:You ma\' hav<,'.t,,-s 13.st nil.raqra.-,h.

HR. GOLDSTr:r:r: R:'.aht.

LT. r,()VPRN()R T,EE: 0'11y i'c do,;s S-SSMto "."or!:

014')

,.

,it.i., 149

~!R. r.nLDf.'l'EIJI: Ths nsxt it"m I h'l.n \',';lS 0'1.

;!.,I,

nag~ 27, r.r -:~7. H'l.S this all

" DR. P,;\P",T:S:

~~R. ~()LDS'T'F:li1: You Cr:i"l li.v"li \1it~ "t~:tS, can I-t

I ~cu1d iust 1ika to r~fsr

":0 tIE C~":iv~~r53.-i:.i.o:'1\.1~ lJ"!d v.1~.th Dr. Statlsr, ,~,::hat.' ~..':hs :,...:;):\- bu-:lr-r s.t-?r.. :.t'::.i15, \.,hicn no ':0 5unDort ':hs ruc1aat,

Th=.r ~.

.'

0150I1R. IJ.'\R'Jr:S: I thi.n1: l1r. P~don~ .is th~

lS0

hudg-et ana1""t.1m. (:nLDSTr.nl:

un ..tn nal timor ~.

Th5.s .'.5

1.m. r:nLDSTr.Il1:

r;tWER'!OR TASI'!ES:

197(', nsy.~~sar.

.t'R. ~0LDS~BI~1: Y"'"1,S, s:.r.

0":"":=. UD.

*.1 T-!. P rD01~r.:

d

01 r; 1

151

It i~ th~

DR. IV\m'ES : In oth<f!r \"ot'd~, S-,::cr.~tary Huqh~s has

Ii: 10o!:s

':'h~tis all

'i

152

0152 I wond~r if vou would ~ort this

I'R. (:oI.nS'I'F.I11: I thought ~h~y had do~~ that.

~;urs.

1m. (:OLDSTEr!:

G-T has

Y~s.

L~. (:OVF.P:;()RV'E: I~~m h-T, naq~ 8-T.

~~!'-..PISHT:R:

.1-h.>'-' ..•.

r- -? ,

0153

153

LT. r,OVP'I1!lOR I,m,:: 0'1 narl"~ 8 -T?

7hat is n~q~ R-T.n()VE!?~1(H~Tl\.~.Tr:S: J!O\ ..' ,~hou-:. 7-T, or 5-t;'1?

'm r,OLf)ST~In: I':":~1Tl !)-T, I 11~n a qUS-st:.o;:J ., .•• on

:>:ci.:'lcinl.:::of t~i.s, \.rhy do \V'-~ h~v':::, to ~o out of thH stat'S

i'l"d h:.r-;:. <>xn<;r':~ ':'0 t",11 ths. City of 13a1timor-"- what

lT~r"iR anothsr o~s riqht h~rs, wh£r~ Ba1timor~

Is t:-:~tc1o~~by th-.:. fish

\.

I,

LT. r,(WrP"!f)~ LEE: Ths old f3.sh l'12.rk~i:.

01c,,", r'P. F'ISPSR:

154

--~.,

It ~il1 nrol)ably tur~ out

~'?.~ .t..- "-.

I:'

0155

155

'co do th~T..:.

Y:..s. Ws ar~ coqnizan~ of ~h~ n~sd

Y-ss.

\

0~:~V• THO to 0:-1';' •

.~,'~.,

qroun?

lSG

'11>.• FlfJlFR:

\.;ork for r:.cht of ~'''::l'V~C(ft1~.s~.'c~.c~for :,o'!'A, '7:h3.i: th~_s

LT. r;OVEIl.;:OR LEE:

C'I'1 vou.!f:"?,'_.' .

••

,....

157th~m ths ~xnlan~t~onto th~t.

Th~ ~xt~~tto which t~~acciasntsnn. Bl\P.n:r.S:•ft1:1d~ fot" .:J-

~1R. c;nLDsTFI~T: It ~s a qo~d nroqr~M.TiT'. r-n'lER::nR LPP: I \,'.i 11 huv ~.':..

O}:av.

"R. r-OJ,DS'l'EEI: That ~1~SIt~M R-T on n~q~ 10-T,

• .,...'" T' ••.•..• r'" •, " • A" 'J .• ~ •

• r ....r- .....•","'\F-..• ~ •••..•• .;. • • -... . c-

Th~ssar~ all ~h~s~boards?/

•I~ "th;;.rs a:lY chj.-:,.c't.i.o'1. to this?

DR. B:\R::r. s :

r;I-B.

th.:..;.

VI'. f:nVl'r;J()p Ll'F:

Ol:av.

.0 I

Ii

1m. LENIS:

-,

~(

015"15~

I had O~~ on ~~-2,on n3g,~ 8G.

/

I:,,-v ..~

You hav~ 340 ~~u~r.fq~t D?r car.

This ~.shasically ~stti~aun a

• '.'~

oHn

HI)

1m. LE!'1IS: If vou ao :.n'::o a bsavy urr--a'1 arsa

you hav"- ':':0 m:ovi.d'3 th5.s O'1-Q,,-oJ;parJ:i!lo.

~U.'.(','"•.l_'n."."'..-, ';'.l,~.'v "''IV "3.; ""' .... "h'l' v-h' 5 '5 "ha'- veu,~ - ._,.., v _ •••••• <':l. • 1 - ':'. 1 •••••..•. ~ .'., •••• J

~;.~."'" , 3nd 0:1 D2.0-:. If),

,I

75 norc''''..;..full-'::.'.M'; f3.cul':.',r, 75 n~rc';:1':. s':.aff, 75

r~rc~~tof ~~~ T. ~., 2 n~rc£~tvi~itcrs.

161

(1m. LEFTS: You e.t'~ b3.sically no'; qivinq b:.rn

~c~:)ols .:'lll ov::.r th~ COU',1try f"'lt'oviding ~c]uc3.t5.on.

•In•. !••

B~l,:inor£?

.•. T"'T,'"TC" •

.L,l, . j ••••••

I,

162

narJ.::'.'1Qfor th=. 1'''lrvla:1r1 Port Authority,

fro!". th.=. huild~.,,-q,

m=-ch.,c): thi <; ,

r.OLDSTF.I!l,

nalt~mor~ to build that school.

1m.• LEHIS:

pn.. LPHS: rae}: ':':0 you.

1m. C;OLDSTEP': I c~ll your ~t~~~tio~to this.

~~R. LENIS: Ths bas.:.c cone .~ptis nut a lind ..to

You could build tos!1 acrss

'IR. (:()LDS,;,rI!!:

163

oF3

(to you.

1m. (;()LDSTr.Ul: That is th~ 9~ly~hinq

I 53,\'" ahou't =."c. ~~d th? fact vau should hu~ld a high-r~s~

'IOU have .: :..-v ~n.l::ona P3X~:, you C3.~' t g;~t

l'?~d, Blod: (,7,"'ith th~ r'l.).lro'td-;;racl: O~ o~~ s:ld-,:..

LT. (;0VO:RflOR LET': ()~,re", do I.

Pr-;;:viously I ~.fv~n r'.~.c:\11,w.~ h?o '3.~t un c-:=.t'.:;~i'1.

It.~r:1

LT. (;()V::::R:T()R L~r.:

164

LT. r:{)Vr:~:T0n r..!-:E:

rm. GOLDSe'Er,: I ~"ould h'-lV" c"'" 11'~d your

is tho.'~rio!1':?

,""•• > B ' S" C 11O~ ;.O~';":l~._;;a"C~ 0 -?g~,

0lf'5/'?-. r,()I,DST~It! :

165I~ h~s to ~~ annrovsd ~t ~his

1m. LPI'7IS: I')" did it on Cln informal r~sis.

'.fR. r,()LDSTEIn :

/

L'nfortuna:b:1 v

\

I

d~d no~ ~~clud~ m~cha~ical a~ri acoustical or any R~ditic~al

I not. 1'1;;.ckto ~"ou a::d a::tVB: you i!'1fotTlat::.o~ 0:1

th~s""-!:tpc :.to::.n~ 5.f VOll r.~c~ll.

~'R.~nLD~~SI?l:niaht.

r1p.• LEPIS: Thr:.c;'~ ar'-s ~hort forns, ',.1ith "cr-=

~~cha~ic~lco~trac~o~,~l~ctr~calcc~trac~orhscauss to GO

lFi6

and ~o do ~h~ msch~~icaland ~h~ acoust~caltha~ is involv~d

This dO~s~1t tak~ a~y oth~r

!1P.. J,nn s :

LT.

01(-7

lG7'

of . -~."':. .\-]", h?d your :.nformal ?,nnroval

T'l':'\n ••.•T"c; •!~. ,~ ••• '~.' •

l.n~.

168

1m. (:()LDS'CFIJJ:

EMUUS()l1: R~.qh':. T". . h';L':S J.S ,. ~~"1q

1m. Lr.~oJIS: Th3.': is /'C:"l7.Cfcm",ry Cou::':~' cannus.

I'R. r.OLDSTEIl!: P-21, T):'l.(J'" 114.

Th~.I;. i~ 'tho! Pors" nron'=.rty.

y,~.s•

j--1r. 0 I Douqhsrty

'IP'. 111\P.P.I S0:' :

-:- .•.. :. . "

".,IG9

GOVEnnOR TA"lES: All rig:l"'~,

LT. GOVEP'::OR Lr:E: rt~m P-23 is d ~f"~rr,",d.

~olicy Qn all th~t wat~rfronta~d ~v~rythi~q.

LT. GOVElUOR LEE: Th~y s",,,m ";;0 b,; s\.-inging

back and f:)r';;~l lii:~ crazy.

th~ "Board?

HR. LEIns:

1,'1'. GOVEPJ1:J~ L:SE: Did Grace g~t a dat.,;?

r:!:. GOLDSTI:r:l:

liR. GOL::>S?EI~,l: 1JOqu::stior: abou'c =-~, abs,:,lu'';-:.ly.Blair, r hon~ you will hs thsr~.

L~. G,)VERiJOR LEE:: Th::.y H=r~ 'tal);:=.~gab:Ju~

'.

GOLDSTEI11 :

that \1~ hav~ a n~stinq.

:.onor-L:u;. "C

170

I though';:

Y;,s.

That is right.

18th, 10:00 ~. m.,. Board ~f

GOVEP1KHt LEE:

~'!R. r:-OLDS'fEI:j:

LT. Govr:KIOR Lr.E: 18;;:h, 10:00 a. m.

1m. GOLDS'i'r:I?l: r13.yb", \..'~ had bi:.'C'<;-;.r mo.]:", i.-c

HR. l!.'\RRISO;I: D"c-.nb"r18, 10:00 a. m., Board

IIR. GOLDs'rr:I:l: YOU~]ould hav-:. to hav;. -ch~

L'r. Gf)VLp..NOr~ LEE: You ar-.:; gO:":1.g "COhave. -Co -=':i:::.

HR. GOLDSTEIN: The:;::is d~fi:lii;.:.?

NR. S\'J1\Nll: D~camb,x 17.

I.m. l!i\RlUSOll: Th'~ g~:~Gral ontion, \'1~ und"rst3.nd

L~. r~VE~lORLEE: It cam~ ur.glu~d.

IIR. GOLDSTEI!l:

if \!-e coulcl.

Public ~orl~~. That is f!rn?

'..:h", 13th. (;iv" h:.r.\a day to q",'';: b3.ck.

wa ~st3blish~d a policy las~ spri~g.0170

0171

171

12-;;11?

You r~call you \..'i11 b~ in i~a:1sas C:.:;:y 1

n~.HYork.

1m. GOLDSTEIll: O};C'.¥. 11" ",ill \wrry abou';;

~h:,,;.

.",J •• _ • ~Ovr:P.::C)R LEE:

GOLDS':EI:.j:

:m. I'ARRISO;-): Th" s"m", day follo\-:i"g •.iu D::J3.ru

rm. GOLDS'.:'EI:l: Okay.

;.11:.. Ll~~~IS:

I .'~11call \,~r~n B counl~ of days.

0172

172

1m. GOLDS'I'Er;I: L"t I s finish this ag"nda.

MR. LEWIS: P-23 is d6f.rr~d.

MR. GOLDSTEIn: I.C';,l;)p-:n, pag~ 115.

L'r. GO'lER:10RLEE: Tha.,: is d"f",rr,:d.

MR. HARRIson: Thai;. is d"f.,rr-,Jd, p',,:-ldi.:l.gthis

IIR. GOLDS'rr:III: It'"m \,:hat?

l-lR. llARRISO:l: It",m P-23, 51.:. ~!ary's, \.;" ar"

:'m. ("..oLDSTEI:l: I'i:sm P-24, nag". ) 1(,.

nak:;:;a corr-::.ction 0_1 s~ti.:l--;.I 5 ap?raisal.

I had to

rm. m\RRISOir: $215,000 i:1st'2.ad of $125,000

1m. GOLDSTT:IH: That' i::ook car", of i;hat.

Ii::~nD-2, p3g~ 19.

H..'<. IlARRISO:!: This is th" 0:1= \o,h:r" r,,10c31:io:1,

':-:.ci l::d .ch~A~otrl1~Y G-~:i-::.ral'S Ol)i:l':'C11 as to th; r~aSO:1 v,rhy

:t should b: naid.

i'lR. GOLDSTEr-r: Thai:: is th" an'" that has b"..-'.r:

:1. flux for quii::~ a whil=, Blai.r.

-:-;~.,:}:.:n , '~h:.":/

)173

II

co:rcrov;.rs:''l.1 :"SSU6 ,,'i':;~ r"f';r;.;)c; '\;0 movi:1g cos'\;s and

r"p1ac"m~n':. of h::>usi:-:g, r?.1ocai::"o:1.

IlR. Er,PJUSO;'!: Thai::.s r:.gh'c..

Th" n~xt :.'c-,;.mvIas D-4, on pag6 121.

I:R. W\RRISO;!: D-4, you had that aprrov~d.

r~loca~ion.That is okay.r:~R. HJ\RP.ISO!~: Th~r-:;. '..J(~S ::0 r.~loca-i::.io:1 cos.:~

GOVEP~;OR T}\!':LS: HoVl <':!)out D-(', 122?

1m. PHIPPS: You ar" holding hac!: $lG40.

IlR. HARRISON: T!.a'c is 11-5.

:m. GOLDS:TIil: 0:1 1)-G or 1)-7?

GOVI:R:iOR T~"\H:CS: D-G--

nn. ILl\RRISO:l: 'l'hat is color ..:.d !':1a~.

Ii v:"::(I c:~ 'l. :>M ororl-;.rty t!1-;.y bought:. This r1,":1 did

~ot ~lavsa~" disnlac~nsnt of hQus~~g, is til: way I f~:l

173

:)174

174

r

I1m. P!!IPPS:

nn. ]E\RRI so:: : Y,<;;. s .

1m. PHIPPS: A -cot",,1 of $12, f)O()-som~-odcl?

nn. Ei'\.~!"{ISO:l: ::0. Tho:~ is all.

1m. Pl!IPPS: \.:3. S

~ll 0:: Si1:' ':'.:h IS nron ,....r.:.:y, ~o nor::.?

!tR. HARRI Sl)l; : ,..~."- , fi.:1:.sh-~d.

!!R. PHIPPS: :1::n-1, -:;h~';..;.n~a:....s ~....~':.h~Vd -;;h,".=.

r:n. El\P.!US():l: That175

ar'" L:.ving ~h~r'l "ayi.ng rs::t.

1m. PllIPPS: O!:av.

nn. EZ\HRISO~::

nR. GOLDSTEIH:

Th.1.S T:l3.~~ha.s mov:id 2.::d ~s still liv:.!:g OZ1

:m.. PHIPPS:

i!~. GJLJSTI:r:'I:

HR. P!!II'PS:

;~R. GOLDS'.r~I~:: SOr.1:::.body :.:1 aut.hor.:.-cy. If",'."

PHIPPS: Or s::Jn~":h::'::q

!U~. GOLD~Tr;IN :

This p=rson h3S b~~n

'. , ...-'

017G rfR. PHIPPS: l!'~ nov~.d \/i":h \;h~ Smith

176

Ii: ~:nD- (, is d ,;f'•.rro.=.d.

:~R. EJ\RRI so:r: p :o=.:-:d:~~..•q

1m. m\RRISO,l: D-7.

13y r-~c111c.:'..~g .=...;; $10,000.

\

r~p.. ,F2\RRISO::: Y.,..s.

ilR. GOLDSTEI,l: U'" \/~r'~ goir.g to qiv" hin

10,noo ~~ ma~~tai~ tha read?

1m. PEIPI'S: :;~. r.:: :.5 :"1:;' rOod,

".~' .. c.' ," ':,' ~.'

177

:;,177

(Th:.s is

2.r~ r,:duc:.:'.g th2 nurclBS ~ nri.c,: by $10. COO.

j IP.. J!i\P.P.ISO!l: niqh~. r~duci:'.q i~ to 37,OOO-plus.

llR. LI;\ns: Ar.:, you qO:.:1g to br:':1q oue a

UR. J:l\I~RIso:r : 0:: ~".'.

P~. P::IPPS: :::> .

~cod "-::-l:cugh.

jm.. P!!IPPS:

z.U'~. GOLDSTLI:I: r~-31 \;~ to01: car::: of -;;r..a:~ -ch:.s

If yeu dO:1'':'; li~:2-':':h~.P?1.y ~,!--:. ha::c11-.; ;;~a.;;, pu-;;'

L'l'. r.OVr:p~,:onLI:T:: ~'l~ich o::,,-?

0178

178

H~S q:Jod.

TIR. ~()r.,DSTEll~: 'llh';, nixt it~F.t, L-22, naC],:: 135.

?hn~ is th~ Towso~ sta~s Collsg~, nla~r.. Thai: is ;:ha-=

LT. (;()'IlI:R::ORLr:r::: D':.z.r old Aubur11 back again.

PR. GOLDSTBI:J: y ;~~•

a n~rc~n~aq~of th~ la~d valu~.

~.'pJ '.• , • Lnns:

r-r::1I S : of .. .~.•.....- ...•~.._-~•..•.•.......

L'l'. r;ovr:Ri:OR LI:~: Good.

:1

179

(179 t1ow-3.days on campus',-;s you hav~ i:ha'c

HR. r;OLDS7r:Iii:

1ln. L~WIS: L-24, nag'~

r~n. GOLDSTr:lIi: -- 137.

l1R. ~f)LDS?r:I;;: Y'~.s. I thi~~:i~ is all righ~.

'. ,,'. .J_'.~ __ .. '-. ~

_..L80 L'l~• GaVEP~;ORLr:L: Ni thOUl; obj'~ctio~,

180

_. "

s.d jour:: ,,(1. )

SUB~J.ECT

State P:;"[i.cSchoolCons trl!;:ion

Option lJ~ Purchaseof Mine, 1 Reservations

Restoral.ion of the~:al' y St:n"" t t

Purchas(~ ,f Deedof Ease:.; ItRo/;ers ,s, Jr.

Marylan,1 .';I:a te Board[nl" Com:;,',ity Colleges(:,:onlg-o" ""y Community COllege)

AGE!':DA, PAGEITE~: XUMnEH

Secrctal.Y'S AI~endaI tern 13Page 15

General ServicesPage 117AItem P..27

General ServicesPage 7I tern 11

General ServicesPage 121Item D.8

General ServicesPar;e 19Item M-7

Budget AgendaItem GI 27A

WITNESS

Mr. Alford R. Carey •.Jr.Mr. Robert FisherMrs. Janice Frederick

Warren Rich

Arthur C. Townsend

Arthur C. Townsend

William Strasser

John J. Kent,Jr.

181

2

15

19

21

25

39

••••ce••••

182

=======,..======================================================SUnJECT

Demollti,), of St. Mary'sSeminary Grounds

Hight-of Way --Dclmarv~ Power andLight Cu;'puny

Tentati~ Allotment toEstabH:,.: G Unclassifiedf'ositiol', Division ofS t;,tc D" "lments

Ba1timo,', City, ~Ioores Run-Herrin;; ;t.1n

~Iaintc~..':,:eReinspectionSurvey

~~ainteni~I,~~CReinspccttonSurvey _..Sin te Pub lie SchoolConstrue,Lon Progam

AGENDA,PAGEITE:,I NU:.!iJEH

Opell Space AgendaSupplement AItem 28-A

Open Space AgendaPage 29AItem 29'\

Bud~et AgendaItp.m GEF-5A

Secretary's AhendaPage 9Item 8

Secretary's AgendaPage 15Item 13

W!T~ESS

Dour;las TawneyFather ,Tohn Sullival1Arthur C. Townsend

J. E. Hobbs

Robert Colbert

Isadore Gertman

TRANSCRIPT PAGE

46

82

95

115

115

117

•...00t'-'

183

SUBJECT AGENDA,PAGE WITNESS TRANSCRIPT mGEr TE~,~NUlll1EH

White Pl.t ins Regional Open Space A~etlda 120Par,k Paf~e 8A

Item 8A"

, ,

TaI:'oma u: ,)an Park Open Space Agenda Mr. Wi lliarn Gries 1201\(;q uis i~Jon Page 17;\

Item 17A.

Annapoli~ MerchandiseJ,~.)rt

Request tn Abolish Positionof ~:q'J;1] DpportunitySup~rvjsr" -- Departmentof Hen 1lli and Mental Hygiene

State 1.:,,, Department--Emcrgc;]cj' Position

~1;lrY la nci Public I3roadcasti ngCommissioil

BudgHt AgendaPage 2r temGEF-2

311dget AgendaPage 14Item GI-14

BlIdr;et AgendaPage 17GI 17

Budget AgendaPage 21GI-21

142

143

141

115•...enw

J • 184

=======,-======================================================SUilJEC,'

Six New .0s1tlo08--Dept. (> I ?ubllc Safety andCorrcc ti .::Ia 1 Services

Dept. of State Plannlog--19;6 FL:ll Year OperatingBtH bO t

1;;<1 ti::l(JI"(' Ci ty Fish Market

Emerl;C:"."/~ledlcal ServicesPr'lgrr,,,,. . Dept. of Health &Mont"l ~:.,:iene

nl~ilt'0" Jay AcquisitionFo;' :.:T:"

Cons ~ijle:' :~.O:lrd 11cmbcrs

AGENDA,PAGEITE~l 1.l;Mngn

uadr:et AgendaPage 2.1Item G!-24

Bud;;-etArrendaPage 27Item GI-27

Pnge "ITItem !iTDepart:nent ofTransportation Budget

Item STDept. of TransportationBudgetPage lOT

Dept. Of Transportion BudgetPage GTItem '1T

Budget Dept. AgendaGEF.- 5D

WITNESS TRANSCRIPT PAGE

147

149

153

156

156

.157

.tt • .- 185

=====' ..~.~============================================SUBJECT AGEND/,. P,\GE WITNESS TRI~NSCnI PT PAGE-----ITE:.i ~mllJEn

Guid.~li:h.,. for Constructionuf Commut.;I.y Colleges

Genera 1 Service,"Page 86Item 1.1-2

Agenda 159

Bowie

r'l,;tJl.1ati":l of Partitions--Cl'ntral L~,oratory and Office

l'Jge 2I tern 3Gencral Services Agenda

Ganeral Services AgendaPa{;c 6Item 9

Generol Services Age~d3Pac-c B9Item P-1

164

165

167

•....00til