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STATE OF I1ARYL1\1\D
BOARD OF PUBLIC \'lORl:S
Gov~r~or'sConf~r2nc~RocmStai.,:'-=. Hot1s~"A~naT'ol:...s I 1'1c.ryl-3ndThursday, l,ov"-mh,,r 7, 197410:00 a. m.
PRESr::~JT :
Lt. Gov~r~orBlair L~s III, nr~sidi~g
Eo~.~.J. i1:.11arrl Tat'1~5, fJ.'r:.:.asur'~r
Ho:;.. Lou5_s L. Go1ds<:",i:1, Comntro1L!l:
2. l~::n~i.thnar:1~s, Se.cr-:!t::iry, Budq-:.t a:ld F:..scal Planning
S"rv:\.c=.s
l\:-:dr~..H !!-;.ub~cJ:, Jr., S.~cr-::.tary.
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PRO C E E 0 I :1G S-----------
q~::tlsmsn, th~ 1'l-?,,-tinClof th.~ Board of Public !'Jori;" ,.lill
1,'R. HEt'BECK: Si r?
LT. G0VEP.}!ORLEE, }Iay I havE- your undivid"d
att~~tio~ for a morn~nt.
LT. r.O\Tru!OR LEE: Th~ list of n~rsonal
Natural Tl.q"ourc""s p~onl-E-.
~IR. Bl\PNES: I-1r. Colb"rt of th"'. Secr"tary of
LT. GOVERNORLr:I~: I pant to do th~ lAC first
and erst th,"Tr.out ann hack to ,,'ork. Hr. Car~y a:ld cOIn,any.
1m. CARFY: Thrtnk vou, (;ov",rnor.
\'1~.ar~ hsr~ today to first go ov~r this
maint-=.nancs "urv~y, "l.nd '!r. Fish'?r is hsr~ from th".
Fr~dsric>:, ,.•ho coon1:.'1ate.d it, nroba~ly k"OV1Smor~ ahout it
than I do. So if vou hav~ any questions.
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You will r~call on last P~hruary 20 you ask~d
us to r~insn~ct any schools that had b~en found Door or
fair in th~ sta~s and confirmsd by th" G~n~ral Adius~Msnt
'.:as n:ui tg a f~,.f imnt'ov~M~nts not-ad t a:1d th-sre is still
rooD for mor",.
Of th~ 266 schools I.'hich ,,'<=r~r,,--~v:lluat"2-d
~.s caM"!rac!: I"ith o~ly 23 still in noor condi tio:1. Tpos", .
23 hav~ !''?c.n, th~ sunsrint"'!nd~:1ts we hav." I"orkc.d with
indi vidual Iv . Ral ti.l'lor'? ci ty cam~.oui: th"! Fors~, as could
Th~y nrss~ntly hays $3.5 million to corr"2-ct
th", situations found in t1-1';scl,ools that I.!'?r,o;still ratsd
hull hy tl,~ horns. Popard Count" has corrscb,-d th ••ir
nrohl"'Ms. Prohably ths o:1ly ons l'eft ~hat \oJ€. are not
comnl'?t~lv finishsd on r.edoinq is Prince. Gsorqss. l"'~ ar.:
~..orkina ,..i~h Dr. J!'l.s}:""ll and his staff at th-s nr"ls"'nt tim~..
. If vou hav'? anv qusstions as to ho\oJ it ",as
done, 1"r. F'ish~r could ansl.'sr thoss. If you hav? any
rru'Sstions 0;'\ nrocsdur"!s to bs follo' ...•.•.d \.,ithin th"!: off.ic',;,
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som~ Mon~v later on in the m~gtinq, I hone, w~ will l~ ahle
to qet this material computerized and wade in a more
usable form.
Bad: i,n F'ebru~r'l, you annrov~d a motion to have
this done for a fiours of S28,EG5, but 'lOU didn't indicate"" -
~,pgre _the funds ~'er~ to come from, so today Dr.' Barn.;,>
has an item for the $80,EOO of general emergency funds
for the fac~_li ties inve'1tory nroqram which has b",,,n
apnrov~d hv the data nroc-ec;sinq pro"1,,, and to that, rather
emerq'i'.!1cv funds, if th~y are availabl-a, to pay fox tr,~
waintenance Survey,
The job has be.,n finished and th-a General
l\djus'CI'1i;.!'.tBureau r"eallv should he naid. I mean, "'-0: can
US'S. -eitl1er horro~'ed nonev or emerq-:.!1cy funds, ~lhich'~v."r
you d-"emHould be betto.r.
LT. r;OVER!lORLEE: He al ,,'ays oref-ar to use
c~srat~nqrnon~v'if ~~ hav~ it.
I-IR. r-OLDSTEIN: In ot:her ,,'ords, you ",'ant to
take a GEF'5-C on Dr. Barnes' aqs'1da for the money?
MR. cr,RBY: That $P,0,50~O is for the faciliti'i'.s
inventorv, and I don't know wher'i'. it is in Dr. BarneS'
aqenda.
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DR. B~ru~ES: r.~n~r~l Emsrga.ncy Fund 5-C.
HR. r,OLDSTr.1N: 1:1 oth-ar ,,'erds, by havinq this
rno:1~yyou I"ill 0~ able to k-aep UO th-d inventory a:1.d
d'2.t~rrnin-e ",ho:th'2-r the reoairs and the :nainbmanc''! h"is b-':."!n
acconlplish"d and "'ill 0; accomnlishsd, is that corr ••ct?
~m. Ci\P.F.Y: That is one nart of h:. Th..-;.oth~r
oart, ~,"!. ~'ill also b'i! ahle to €valuat-a. the r'9st costing
m~thod for r.uildinq schools, Wo:will also b~ able to
inventory '10~' ITluchsr,ace, I"'lich ~~r. Hoover has always
}'''!.enon InS a"ld t'1" l""oislatur'i!, ho'" many seats do ~.'" hav",
availahl", to t'9i1ch music and hOI"l'l.anymor'i! do Wo:noi<'i!d.
ssating and hO'1ef:ullv by '"orkinq ,.,ith the Stat~ Dapartm-.;nt
of Planni::1Cl, "'e ~!ill b~ able to figure miqration oatt.,r:1S
in grOl,'th areas. Th'2.State Denartnen'c of 'I'axation and
A!;s"J:ssrn~nt~t\'5_sh~s to us-g the i:lv-entory as ,.;.:;.11as th,~
Stat€. Dsnartmsnt of Education.
It ~dll he th", first comnl",t"!. comnreh,;nc:iv'i!
facility i:1v'9ntory of school buildings in the stat~ of
~!aryland. ":'hat is ",hat the $80,625 is for. I hav,'S ''<r.
Parl: frOM th", stat~ [1~r,artm",nt of !Caucation :''i!rs who
could clar~!'v th~ comnuter ",nd of this boecaus,:: that is
h.•vond ITl'!?,and nr. r!arino, the a':1alvst, the data
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r>roc~ssinq svst",ms analyst "'ork,,,d\'lith us.
~'R. G()LDSTF.Pl: Do you hav-a an aqre~m"nt ",ith
Dr. Sense'1haugh, Dr. Earhart and th~ SU1:";>rinbmdent of
Schools for Baltimor~ City that onc~ y.ou get the system
"'orki'1oths." "'ill coon.;:r'l.t"2.\,'ithit?
MR. CAREY: They aqr~Bd ~ith that. Th~y did
that in the last session of the leaislature.
llR. GOLDSTEH!: In oth"r ~ords, you don' t hav~
disaqr~",mqnt amonq the hierarchy, superintendents?
HR. CARBY: Dr. S'Z.r:.ssnbaughhas qotten tho;;
sunerintendents to aive us 100 nerC"i'ntcoone-ratio;'!.
l'R. (;OLDSTEIll: Can \<2 h••ar from Dr. Earhart?
LT. GOVERlmR LFr.: Como: to the micronhona and
i~8ntify vours~lf for the ~ecord.
DR'. EARlV\RT: Lt. (;ovs.rnor,nemb=.rs of th••
Board, so far as --LT. GOVEffi~ORLEE: You are Dr. Quqntin
Earhart, Dsnutv State Secretarv, Stat •• Suoerintsnd"nt
of Schools. Thank you. Proceed.
DR. El\RJL7\RT: In sunnort of "..hat llr. Car~y
hiS said as far as ".",v.no','th., su"''''ri.nt«ndantsax" in
a0rsement. I thi'1k that is sufficiant.
LT. GOVERNOR LEE: At the end of this s~cond
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surv~y, th~r~ nr~ still ?-3 Duildinqs that ar~ in on~ or
th-a otp?r of th~ b:o noor cat~qories. NOH, ~lho i!" qOi:lO
to nursue th~JTland mak-e sur~ that they ast out of that
status?
1m. CAREY: H~ \o,'ill "'ith our staff. I hav~ the
1etter' h.are from Daltimor? ci tv right no,,', ,d th th-=.3.r
plans and th" contracts ~!ill be announced ann havs h,;,,<n
l-et out. Hh~n rfr, Fish'?r' s cOT:manydid thi s ,"e h~ld off
u:ltil Nov'ember 1st, Th.eir budaet ~,'asn' t du~ until .Tuly 1.
Hh?n it ,-'as l~t out for bid, a lot of ,,'or}::\,'asn' t unrler
contract. At th~ nr~s~nttim~th~y have S3.5 million....I, to correct th~ 16 schools ::':1 t:-tat ar~
still in really Door ,shan-e.
LT. (;OVEP]j()R LEE: J thin1: that 24 school,
!"ysteMs should understand, and I hone you und~rstand,
that this svstem'that you all'hav~ d~vi~€d is in li~u
of a mandatory annronriation for Il'.a::.nt?nancs mon~y
,,'hich tho.y founn v~ry burd'i'.nsoms, and th.~ stat? r,.•ally
m~a:lS bus:':1~ss.
He simnly h'l.v""to hav~ th~ puhlic schools
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l'n. CARry: ':':"1<;B:Brd back ;':1 T'~)'ruary madE.
5.';:v~ry cl~ar, I thi~k I.lr. "oldst"in mad", th"" !'lotion, that
if th~y did not maintain tl-j.~ir hui.1din~ V'.''' ",-ar", not going
-to conti:lUs to fiscally SUDDort th'2.min building n-'!v,.'schools.
I.m. "OLDSTEI:'I: That is th ••.only v..'ay to approach
th~ nrohl"n. I!"re you ar~ sn~nding thousands a'1d ';;hom'a:'lds
of dollars, Hq hav-a nov" alnost a hillio:'l-dollar school
construction nroqram, on-e of the most intsnsiv€ school
construction nrOC;l"'lJ11Sin tho2-:1atio:1. I hav~ r.~'2.nin
schools duri'1g the r"c-ent cannaiqn. It ~s dqnlorabl""
You go 'co ".'ashrooms, ~~O th~ mirrors_off tr."":! ~.!al1s, fauc..;ts
do:'l 't v.'or!:.
old.Tl-j~vare mod-arn schools, l~ss than ten y"ars
I 1':no\"of no sUnerinbmd<i.n'c v"ho v.'ould ~HV'~ th at in
his ov'!1horn~, !Vhvshould he have it in the school? Is
this n~ql",ct a:1d lack of sun~rvision on sono?.body's part?
1m. CA!'1EY:' I v"as glad' that school v'as on this
list.
MR. r,OLDSTEIN: That schoel is on this list.
I \..'as in t'1o::.t school last Frichy. I ah'ilys JT1ak~ it my
husi"l"sS to go i'1 <:.h"!v'ashrooms, I fiqur" th'lt is th,,-
plac~ us~d ~ost, outRid~ of ths cla5srooms. If they aro:!
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not r1qht, th~re is som~thinq wrong with the school. Th~n
I.go to the superintendent's or principal's offic~. That
is usually 5.ntOT) shan~, soft rugs on the floors and th.~ rest
of the building is derelict ..
It is not right. I won't ~it hsre and vot~ for
money to buiId' ns\\'schools in thos-a counti",s unl ass they
take care of them.
HR. rAREY: That is the nurpose. I Hould ~ay
~'e are oetti.ng a lot of support. It is a very tim-:;-consuming
affair on our part. He don't hays a staff nosition «VS:1 to
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ke~n on, this budget. He are '..'orJ.:i:l<j\\'i th them. I cal"!
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only say this: we nicked un ,.:hatI f.ssl are many y,,;ars
of :1egl~ct bv the mal"!dateyou nut out last February, and
I think t~~y at"~ r.~snO!1ninq,'th~ local county qov"'!r~m":.:1ts
ar~ r'€.sflo:1d5.nq.
Baltimorq City is. Baltimore City cnnrovsd
$9 million of canital funds to maintain and imnrov~ th~
school Maintenanc~ nrogram. ~hat is probably the most
th~y have ever so~~tin on~ y~ar.
HR. C,()LDSTEIN, That "'3.S a result of our visit
to Baltimore. r ~~n't ~e~tion the ~chool. I talk ••d toI\ the man who \\'asi:1 chargs. l'ihe,tdid h~ say? You n,msmbsr
what he said. p.~told us the exact opposite th~ princinal
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told us. That ma~ sl~~ns th~r~. ~ats th~r~.
LT. GOVErelORLEE: I have one nuestion for
M P' h . •. t f "._r. .' ~s ~r J us ~ ou 0 cur,.os::!.'t:Y. How many individual in-
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spectors' are ~_nvolv-;>.din m!lkinq this stat~-"dd? surv"'-y?
I,m. rISHER: \'7e hav,," UP to 4() to 50 men available.
Nov, in fact. th9re Here a f"H" more than that this y"ar
~~cause I qat involved myself in insp~cting a few of the
scl)ools.
LT. (;OVF.RNORLI:E: Ho", many end UP ,.,ri ting
the comme~ts for th~ various counties?
IIR. FISHER: Poach In,ln "Trit~s his mID comm~nts.
r~h'~yare r-avi s".1~;!dby a sun~rvi sor.
LT. Gm'F.relORLEE: Tr.3re is a considerabl ••
diff~rsnce in style from one county to th? next, I
!1otic-~d in r~acllnc; ov~r this.
I.m. FISHER: t-Jhat 'our nurnose is. "le hav.~_
held msetinqs on this. In fact many of us insn'?ct-,d th~
schools toa~ther. What you see vou nut do,,~. In many
instances. ,.,? h",ar comm",nts from the custodian or
the nrincinal as to a certain orohl'?m. For instanc~:, "'P.C!u~stion'Sd f1r. lh~t€nhaum, a!1d you are h-sarinQ' som~tim~s
exactlv the co~e!lts of th~ people in that school, not
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LT. GOVr.relOR LEE: I am sure you agree what wa
n~'Od is an e;.ven-ha:1d'E!dtreatm'E!:1tof ths "rhole statd. I
notic~ i:1 som'E!counti~s th'E!tendency is to simoly hav~
straightforward narrative a:1d say thab the school n~eds
pai:1t, or something elss. In other counti~s they ar~
in for some rather fancy rhetoric and purple adjectives
and stuff like that, a:1d if that unsets the local
administration, I can't say that I blam'a th'~m.
HR. GClLDSTEr,: ~'ay I mak" a suqg-estiOllon
that v'?.rypoint? I snoke, to Hr. Car-ay about it the other
day. It would be very similar to what we do with
audits, ~,h~:1the audit is made by th~ legislative auditor.
They sit do~~ with the de;.partmenthead that has b~~n
audi t(ld and revi'E!'"th~ first rsnort. Then that is modified.
I believe a similar situation should ~ake nlace with the'
sun-e.rint'?:nd~nts 5..n 2 3 counti~s. Th~n th"~ \>rording and
the;.annroach, so to sneak, wouldn't irritate them. \~at
do you think of that, sir?r1R. CAREY: You are riaht. This was n~qlect
on my part in not having time to qet together with
them before the renorts qot t.o thsm, b'acause they Yo n'!t.,
it \.,asdone. and they ,,'antedsoma results. He;.we;.rein
our can~tal rsvie.w hudq'?.tsand I just didn't get it dona.
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HR. GOLDSTEIN: Can you accomnlish that in th"
future?HR. CAREY: Th~ first time;' we do that, \oI~ \"ill
sit do\'~ with ~very county and qO over it buildinq by
huilding.
f.IR. C;OLDSTEI!l: If you do that' you hav,," a meetinq
of the minds and you avoid unusual criticism. The
newspan~r dresses it UP more. They make a headlin~.
Then th~ facts aet real hot. They staxt singeinq th.dr
hair and their skin and it.is hard to get them around the
table.
MR. CAREY: I'l'o! \'1;,11 talk to the superintendents
about it.
LT. C;OVER~ORLEE: If th~re are no questions
ahou'e the renort its",lf He come to th,; question of :''lying
for it.liR. GOLDSTEI:r: I move \''': anpropriate
C;O\'FRI:ORTl\l'1ES: Second thE. motion.
LT. GCWEm;ORLEE: !loved and secondsd It.;m
C;r:p5-C be annrov?-d. All in favor say ay'?-. Oopos,.•d.
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HR. CAREY: Ilr. Fisher can get it. 11'8 have one
from last February of $26,665.
LT. C"()VERNORLEE: That cov€rs \"hat?
IIR. CARFY: That covers the' actual surv"!y. That
cov".rs the \"ork that has he's!'! accomnlish~d.
LT. GOVEffilORLEE: Th" thing \"e just appropriated
cov'?rs \oIhat?
~R. CAREY, That covers the ~ext fiscal y~ar.
From last Julv -- we are on~rating in the red now -- from
last July un to ~?xt July, maintai:-:i;'lg of th-e nrogram,
comnuterlzinq all the data on schools, -etc.
DR. Bl\RNES: Th'?re \"i11 be a $52,000 annual
m3i::1t:~n,mc? r".curr"mc". of this from the 1976 budq"t on,
in S)dn' s reQu1ar burtqet request. That dO'i!sn' tallo\<'
him to Cl~~ s~a:"Ct.cad this y"'~ar.. Rath's.r than \olai t unt~.l
next ,July h~ asks for that moneY. The earlier money
the Board annrov",d. The thought was it pas lo.qi timat.~
to take it out of the hond accou:-:t. That \'laS the purnos",
of 'th.s s.tud" , hut since '., cos'~s vou al'out 50 C'i<'1.ts 0:1
a dollar for h~:-:dr10~~Y, I ,"'QuIdhav~. 'to r.~cor:'U":l::;nd that
:..t h~ n3.5..d O~l': of ::h'~~'$m-era'2.;CV fu~d '.d:.::.r.;: "."~ do;)' t. h3.v~
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you more in th~ long run.
LT. GOVr,RNORLET:: You ar<1 talki:1g about thE
20-so~e thousand?
DR. Bl\RNES: Y"",,s. H.s don' 1> hav.;, an i ';:em for it.
1m. CAREY: $26,665. '.i'h" r'cason you d:m't hays
an it~m I discover~d in the m~nutas coming do~ h~r~,
that b'lck in February he made the motion, ev<!rythiuq ~,as
approv.",d a:1d nobody bothered to tell wher.a the mO:1'"-Y~,as
cominq fro!'!. Since it \.,asn' t clarified at that noint,
if it is clarifi-ad at this meeti!lq \.,.,~can save ours,slv'es
50 cents on the dollar.
'.'P. r,()LDSTT:Ul: I mov'? ~,e nay the hill
$28,665 out of the general emerge:1cy fund.
LT. GOVER!lORLEE: Out of th~ em~rgency fQ~d
a:1d not out of hond issue mo~'?y, and if that involv~s
r~scinding any action from last Fehruary --
MR. CAREY: That only clarifi~s it.
LT. r,OVER!lORLEE: .'\11 right.
K'?n, do you "Tant to id'entify this as GEF 5-D?
DR. BARNES: All riqht.
LT. GOVERNORLEE: GEF 5-D.
DR. BARtlES: Roman numeral E.
. LT. GOVEP~lORLEE: Make it E. All in favor
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i~dicat~ by saying ay~. OnDOS~, no.
Pay ~verybody, Skin, and go hack to "ork.
!.IR.CAREY: Thank you, sir.
LT. GOVERNOR LEE: l~er~ is' Secr~tary Phipps?
MR. PIIIPPS: Right here, sir.
LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Good for you. 1,rB you r-:.ady
to com~ to hat for cur mineral rights and things?
DR. B~RNES: Warren Rich, Special Assistant
Attorney General, will sneak ~o this.
LT. GOVEP~IOR LEE: Th.i.sis a hand carried itera.
Do~s it have any idsntification?
;~R. LE~'!IS: !~aY.:~this p-27 on my ag-enda: naa~
117-A. This is not a n~w item.
LT. GOVERtlOR LEE: Counselor, will you
ide~tifv yourself for th~ record?
MR. RICH: \'Jarrcn.Rich, sp'Scial ~ssistant
Attor~1',"YGsner'll, counsel to the D-epartm-entof Natural
Resourcss. Tl'1isitem involv<:.san outstandi.ng ontion
contract made on th~ 18th day of octobtr, 1974. It is
si~ed hy Georaes Creek Coal and Land Comnany, Buffalo
Coal Comnany, 'l.ndit is an ontion for the nurchas-a of
approxiMately 5,('85 acres of mineral reservations
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016 hy g~nera1 ,.'arrant" d"!"!dand in addition to that
approximately 330 acres kno~m as the Phase and Bak~r
tracts o,med hy G~org"!s Creek Coal Company, which will be
CO'1v"!y.~dcy special ~'arrani:y de.ed and also i t ~,i11 invc1 va
the quitcl~im of all other mineral rights o~med hy Georges
Creek Coal and Land comnany under state-o~'ned nrop~r\;.ies,
and areas id~ntified within the perim~ter of the Savage
Riv2r State For~st a':ld also Dan' s ~~ountain Hildlif~ R~fuqe.
t.IR. PHIPPS: Thi s area h<?ra, gentlemen.
HR. RICH: Hr. Phinns is no\., sho~,i:1q you
Exhibi'c 2 ~,hich \.,ill he attached to tha sign".d ootion
contract.
MR. PI!IPPS: The red plus this addition right
HR. RICH: t.lr. Phipps, do YOllhave the ,-"ild1if-e
rF..fuge area?
HR. PHIPPS: This is thq \<.?ildlif~ ar.s.a. Dan's
!.!oun":.ai~ is her-=..
~m.GOJJDS'I'EIN:Goi:1g do\~n from Hidland, just
off to the l~ft. 101e identified that park on top of
that mountain.
t1R. PHIPPS: Hith the 1ittl~ recreation c.;ntsr.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes.
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NR. PHIPPS: 1\1", nlan to nut a swirnr.linqpool th,,:re
this y?ar.
LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Th~ ontion is the shaded area?
HR. PiJIPPS: \'1e already oW:l.that.
LT. C,OVEIUIORLEE: All right.
HR. RICH: Gover:lor, the consideration is
$400,000. Ther~ are 25 days to acc~nt the ootion from the
18th of Octoher and 60 days to close thereafter.
LT. GOVEro,OR LEE: And this ~ould come from
an outdoor recreation land loan?
IIR. RICIl: Y-es, pursuant to Chant.~r 355 of the
1972 laNs, it ,.'asnoted that th-es",funds could he
utilizc.d.
LR. GOVERNOR LFE: This is really a settlem~nt
out of court, isn't it, of a protracted piece of litigation?
HR. PICIl: Yes. I should give a hrief history.
The cas~ comm~~c~di~ 19G5 and ~as to rl~terminewh~th~r
or not th~r-e \ol'=!r"? -e.xistinq strin min-a riahts outstandirlq
on ,.,hatis knOl,m as 'ehe f.1c!.lillantract, ,...hich is the
great hulk of this nronerty.
Chanter 355 was litiaat~d over the cours~ of;
\ the nast two years. It was found to be constitutional,
and it was r.~I:!al1c1edto the c;.rcuit Court of Garrett County
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for th~ sole consid~ration of wheth~r or not the stat~
would hav~ to nay in ord~r to ston all stripping on
stat~-own~d orop~rty.
Th~ issue of constitution~l. confiscation
arose, a!ld it is recomm~nded hy the l',ttorneyGeneral's
Office and hy t'1e D9partrnent of Natural Resources that this
i~ a decent s~ttlement frOM an ~conomic standooint, and
~ill avoid nrotracted litigation and will clear up a lot.
of outstanding mineral rights and title to \-'hatth'5
state o\-ms nov on the surface.
LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Are th~re any further qu~stions.
MR. KICH: I \':ould li}:~to n•..~ni:ion on~ thing
for ~'r. Goldstein. He brought this up sometim.~, and that is
that there is goinq to be a right of first refusal given
for nine-tenths of the oil and gas rights on the subj~ct
Dro~3rtv and neri~eters, and that is included within the
option contr.~ct as nolo',.)orded.
HR. (;OI,DSTEIN: .I have been on ~OD of this
situation for Cjuite a while, Governor Lee, and in vie,')
of what ve have got un there, I feel it is a fair
full sp~ed ahead.(
s-e'ttl-am'9.nt. I thinr. the state should accept it, with
LT. G()'.,7.f:-:R;,J()R LEE: K~o~..,i~q' vou as I do, Louis,
c
19019 if you say it is a good bargain it is a good bargain.
/-IR.GOLDSTEIN: 'fhank you, sir. I move ~le
acc~nt the ontion as outlin~d by ~r. Rich.
GOVERNOR T~WES: I am familiar with it. Okay.
LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Duly mov~d and s~cond-ed.
Without ohj~ction, it is anprov~d.
All right. Thank you, q3ntl~men.
What other late starters do we hav~?
MR. I!ElJBECK: Maryland Historical Trust 'ind
Gen~ralS~rvic~s.
LT. GOVERNOR LEE: We will just go down the list
as it is. The Historical Trust is <It bat.
HR. 'I:OHNSEND: Hhich item is it?
I.!P..LEI'IIS: Th~ first it~m, Governor, is on page
6 of my agenda. It is the COrltract by th-e Haryland
Eational Park and Plann~_:1qCom~ission for th~' restoration
of t~~ I-l.'l.rySurratt House in Prince G~orqes County, and
they are requestinG annroval.
HR. GOLDSTEIll: This is enough money to take
car"! of it?
MR. TOH~lSEND: Yes, sir. Th.er'2is a corr.,;ction
t.~er3, if I miqht. I am ~rthur To"ms~nr1, Dir'i!ctorof the
020 approvogd this nroj Hct. Iva hav>?-recoei v.,d back a d""ed of
-:as.am~nt, Hhich is both accentabl~ to th-e Trust and to
th~ Haryland lla';:ional P'l.rk and Planninq Commission.
I notics i~ th~ a~~nda~~sm,th~ r~~u~s~is for
$(;0, t)oo, i'l.nd I do hsU.';?v<;!that Ii3.ryland ,'latio:ul Ci'lpU:al
Park ~nd Pla~n:"~1qCcn.mif;sion is ~xnfaci:i~q .~c r~csiv~,:that.
it \.:<:.sin fac'.:: to be a 50 perc~nt match. Th~ bid cam~ in,
thq 1m.' b:.d can'O i:1 at $101,346, if in fact I~~ ~J,",ra doinq
it on a 50 p-=.rc',<n';:match. That l"Culd be about $50,673.
20
,\. II :'Jti.ll
increasog in construction costs, and probability of
overruns, ""tc., thilt $60,00n h, r-.<l~.as,"d for this Dro-j-.;<ct.
HP.. LEtHS: No, the r';quest that caM~ i"
indicated 19,346 . 1 think if.th~r~ was any Modification
(
. to this it lvould havs to be done by latt'£:::, and r~vie,,',:d
~y the Denartment first.
If W~ can qet anoth~r letter from th~m, we will do that.
lye I'.'ould the:-J.nroc'?ed 0'1 the 19.
I'R. GOLDSTEH1: I think w;; had hetter okay it
just like 5t is set forth !)er'~. Other"'ise you ar4 "oinq
Board.
nr~viouslv by the Board.
21
I am sure of that.
of granting mon,,:vto privabl' individu'lls and in the
th'2.Comptroller concerning the pronriety and appropr~atenes
l1'\-''l~tim"","''''loave arranaed ",:'..th ~lr. Moss to loan him
HR. TOm:SEllD: At the previous m<'.eting, I
HR. GOLDSTEIN: I mov-e we approv~ th~ item as
1m. TOI'mSr.!1D:Com~ bac): to ths Board.
~~n.!..:':~4IS~ The n~xt itG.Pl, Governor, iRon
GOVERNOR T.l\HES: s~cond'2.d.LT. GOVERnOR LEI;: Duly moved and s'2.co''ld'2.d.
!-IR.I.E\115: Any additional contingency that
of '2.asementf£om Roaer W. Moss. This was deferred
at a prev;ouS m~eting, the r~au~st by the Secretary of
page 124 on my agenda. At the req-aus'cthat ~,~ d",f",rit
!lonsing and community D<'.ve1oPI'1,;mt,to purchase a deed
without ob;ection, so ordered.
Surratt 1!0US'2.OV'2.rin clinton.
s<ot forth on 1')ag~7, for th~ restoration of the r.\ary
~1ou1d increase thi~ participation would come back to th~
to h~v~ some other conting~ncy.021
,\.
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022
22
this mon~y on a short-t~rm loan, at no interest, and he
has agre~d to this, and that way th~ proj~ct can go
fonmrd and th~ state ~lill r'eceive its i:1tersst in this
pron.;rty.
~1R. GOLDSTEIll: Th~ reaSO:1 I sugq~sted tha-c,
Governor Le'e, this is very simi.lar to th~ shore erosion,
proqram. l'Jenut un the monev for the pronerty OW71'?rto
protect his or hst:' nroperty on the Chi<saneaks Bay and
tributarv "latoar~.
ov~r s"Zv'~ral y-aars.
It is a free loan. They nay it hack
I feel this is a similar situation. ~fuy should
Iv'?-mak'? an outright arant for som~body to restor~ a home,
th~:1 sell it, a:1d may.e the nrofit and not rtturn it to
the state? I understa~d bv your letter of Nov~m}~r 4,
this nro"sr"..:yis J~nol'm as Pronhscy, Queen Ann'=-'s County,
and He I"ill let this man have $4500.
HR. TOHl'lSEND: Th3.t is corr<:.ct.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: He ~?ill pay it back Id thout
in-C:3rest? .
HR. TOHNSEND: Yes.
years?MR. TOrmSEND: Ten years.
.'•,
,••
023
23
1m. r,OLDSTEIN, I fe~l it is a fair ~laY to do
it. You e~tahlish a revolving fund, yeu qet the old
historic homes or older nlaces restor~d and if th~y
s-;>.11it the state gets th", monsv.
~lR. TOI'iNSEND, Th'l':is right.
1m. GOLDSTEIN, \'18should go on record shoving
loans mads v<;;rysimilar to I.,hatr.~r.Phinps US'9S in
Natural Resourc"!s on the shore erosion projects.
~1R. TOl-mSEllD: This ~!ould be part of tha
easemsnt documents.1m. GOLDSTEIll, Is that agr,,:,eahle?
HR. GOLDSTEI!J, I would be happy to mak" the
motion.1m. LEIns: That would modify this item.
r.m. GOLDSTF.r:~: Yes, sir .. II'!other words, th3t
w~ grant l.lr.Rogsr lloss ths loan of $4500, Inthout inter.sst,
to restors th? nronertv !:nOH'1 as Proph"cv in Qus-.;.n
Anne's County, and that h~ r~nav it in annual installwents
over a t~n-ygnr neriod and th.~nron~r lic-e:1s'= b~
record~d in tho. records of Queen Ann~'~ County,
estahlishina a lien to the State of Maryland.
r,OVERl!OR'I'Al'IES,Th-a renaym",nt program, you ars
(
024
24
establi~hin(J a ten-year neriod for oth"r prooerties or
let ~ach prooerty stand on its o"~?
HR . GOLDSTF.I!l: I think you would have to let
each pronerty. Hayhe ten years is reasonable. Nayha if
it is a r~al biq nrop~rty, i~ may requir? mor~ mon~y.
GOVERNORTlIl'1ES: This applies to the on'" proo~rty?
HR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes.
• GOVErUrOR Ti\NES: I sgcond thea motion. Ok<1.Y.
L'r. GOVER~lORLEE: Does that consti tut'"' an
aM~ndment of what we are doing here?
I.m. LEIns: That \'.'Quld actually disaporov€ of
It.~m D-8. I'le \dll hava to ~end you an amended i t~rn, nev,
It''"?.m.r.'R. GOLDSTEIN: I think tim'! is of the ess:e:1ce.
'rhe man has done MOs:t of th", \'IOry:.
HR. LF.lHS: He call s"'.:nd a new i tern. You can
accent: this motion. N"9 ",ill s~nd you a neY.' lt€m to
cover it as Item D-8.
LT. GOVE~NnRLEE: Item D-8 -- ~hat w~ want to do
is aporove !Ir. GoldstBin' s motion.
HR. LEIns: Riaht.
LT. GOVERNORLEE: Then you can. do the pap~r
"Iork to make it proo"!r.
/\
025
25
HR. LEIHS: Y"",s.
LT. r,OVE?JWRT,EF.: Thank you.
Did you second that, Governor Ta\olss?
GOVERNORT~WES: Yes.
LT. (;0VEP.clORLEE: I'li'thout ohj'~ci:ion, so ordered.
HR. r,OLDS'rEIN: Thank you.
MR. TO"mSEND: Thank you v~ry much.
HR. LEInS: W-=I,lill have D-8 as a disapprov-ad
it'?!'1 on this ag'1nda and I I'lill give you another on",.
HR. r,OLDSTEIll: We accomnlished something here
today.LT. GOI/Em:OR LEE: I!" th"lt th>!. end, Arthur?
HR. 'l'OHi'lSF.ND: Y-as, thank you.
I.'r. G()VER~IORLEE: Th..: sta t~ Board for Community
Col l".g'? S •
HR. LE1'lIS: Tha"t is. aqain on my aqenda above,
It<;m 1.1-7, nags 91, and It£~ P-20, on nage 113. Both of
them COV'i?rthe rS'1uest hy the rtontqomary Community Coll~ge
for the purchase of prop-arty to -astablish a n~w call1pus
at G€-rmantOl'.'11,r.lontqomery County, 11aryland.
GOVr.RNORT~I'lES: I'lhere is the oth.er i t-.m?
MR. LEWIS: Paae 113, P-20.
LT. r-O"ERNOR LEE: 1'7ho is i)oP'!ar5_nq?
r\
026
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26
NR. S'l'fu,SSER: I aTTlBill Strass-er, Presido:.nt
of 'Nontgomery COTTlmunH:.yCollo=.g-e. Since 1971, th,;, colleg~
has follow~d through o~ th9 allocation by th~ Stat~ Board
of Puhlic Harks for $750,000 to "lstahlish a third campus
for 110!1.tQom'~ryColleQ" in th'a arua of C",rmantOl.m, Haryland;
as th" mat"rial you hav~ this morning indicat~s. w~ are
Dr~parsd to Droce""d ,dth the acquisit.ion of a small Darcel
of land, and to heqin t.h" d~~ail"d nlanning for that
campus.
He have coordi.nated ,dth the count.y nl,mning
ag"'!.ncy, aCld ,.'5.th tho. county council, Montqomery County
!'x".cutive. a~d I hsli6ve dOcuI":l'!nt.s'Chat r.av:; been .t""'.Vi~"l:;d
T~~v satisfy ~hossnarts of th~ local
ftmdi:1Q 'c""a'~vou per", conc.srned about. ~~r. Johnson may
a more d",i:.ail",d au~stion, I ~'ould be glad to r"sDond if
you like.
l"'~ '-.'ould lik~ to proceed to acquirs this
parc~l,which is O~ naq~ 113, your It~m P-20, and that is
(
027
r
27
r~latsd also to It~m 1107, ~Ihich is on paq~ 91, as Nr.
Lewis earlier i~dicated.
11R. GOLDSTEIN: !-layI ask you a question at
that point, Doctor?
!-lR.STRASSER: Y~s, sir.
HR. r:OLDSTEIN: According to the Item 11,-7,
page 91, the state's allocation is a maximum of $750,000,
is that correct?
HR. STRASSER: That i.scorrect.
1m. GOLDSTEI?1: A:1d than on It~m No. P-20,
pag-e 113, for the first aC'luisition of land, 45.53
acr'e.s you ara iJo.YJ.;:g 1,100,0007
MR. STRASSER: Y-es, sir.
1-lR. GOLDS'rEI:-j:You ~..ant to qat a total of
200 acres, is that riqht?
~IR. STPASSER: That is right.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: Bas"Jd on that you are oayi.ng
roughly hetter than $20,000 an acr~?
HR. STRA.SSER: y~s, sir.
HR. G()LDSTEIN: So you ,/ill he spending ootter
than $4 million just for land?
HR. STPASSER: Yes, sir.
028
28
to put uo the $1,2Sn,OOO?MR. STRASSF.R: Yes, sir. We have discussed this
~xt~nsivf!'ly\-lithth,,:county gov~rnrn~nt. As you may kno"," f
~Ir. Comntro11~r, th..z countv governmsnt ,,'ent through a
revie\-lof th~ Gerr;lanto~mmastsr plan. This car-rousis to be
a part of the deve10ument of that new cowmunity in
Montgomerv County.MR. GOLDSTEIll: That ne~l community 1.5 standj.ng
still right nOH.
1m. 5TRJ\SSER: It is nroc~-edinq. Ther", is
construction going on. There are peo~le moving in. The
!rIagt~rnlan ,,'as amend'3d, annrov'-e:d after a r-e-annlY5i~ r
consultant study and a number of public hearings, was
r"Oannrov,,,din revis.~d form hy the I,~ontqomeryCounty
Council in January of this year.That revision at tpe requ~st of the county
council nlaced th-=.college campus site ,,,here~le a}.",.
oroposinq it this norning, at the int~rsection of 118
a'1.d11aryland Interstate 270, 'cr'near':" 70-5. This
sito;,conforr;ls~,'iththe planning naramaters that the
county cou:lci.l hB.lia •...•.~ :..r:norta ~t.
It is their 'desire that ~I" no;, on this sito;:
and they have indicated that they realize that the cost
029
29
might be more than oth".r sit"s, but 'for thsir planning
ourpos~s, and the larqer paramst~rs of the d~velopm~~t
of G~rmantol'!l1, coordination I..'ithin the county, th?y
th~ state's allocation is, $7S0,OOO, and th~ actual
purchase nrice for th'a balanc", for the "'.otal oarc~l.
They have indic3.t-ad about 200 acres is wh'lt th~y
~'ould support. I think the. state indicated it halit'-v,""s
!\
about 240 3.cr,,-s ~Ioulc be appropriate.
HR. GOLDSTEIIl: D') you h.:w'! that in \olriting?
1m. STRASST:R: Y'2.S, sir.
th~ top officials?
l1R. STPASSER: They have b",en sh3.r",o I'lith al'd
coordinat",d.' ~lrs. Ross is her".. 5h", caD. confirm that.
HR. GOLDS'l'FIN: I I.'ould lik" to nut it in th",
record so th'?re I.'on' t boe.a qu~,stion ahout it. l~e don't
I..'ant th ..'? sama th5.ng to harmen that happe:lsd in Takoma
Park.
llR. 5TP.,\SSF.?-: No, sJ.r. If you knol" th" forI:lat
us€d in r1ontqomery County for cani-cal proj~ct planninq,
this is on-2 or the: she.~~;s that d'2.als ...;1 th G-:rnani:o\\~n,
....- ..' '1 ,...'-_ ... ' ••...• ~~.
(
(
030
30
.aid, $750,000, and th~ balanca is from county bonds, so
there is no question. They have b-aen inform-sd orally.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: What happ"m'O-dto tha bond bill?
They can't sell bonds unless they hav~ the ref€r~ndum.
LT. r,OVER:lORLEE: 'rhey d"f-.=.atedthat
ov-srwhelminqly.
1m. STRASSI,R: This is a matt~r of acc.antance by
the'!county.
1m. r,OLDSTEIN: I )mm~. Wait a while. All you
have here is a she'!~tof paper, which don't mean a thing
unless you have your county council okaying it.
is th~ir official format, Hontgomery County, Maryland,
COU:1t,.Council. Their PDF, and th':!irannual county
allocation.
HR. GOr.DSTEIN: You have a n"!w county council
ta~inq office in Decsmber.
MR. STP~SSER: Yes, sir .
.MR. GOLDSTEIN: I wonder if we could hav~
something in ~rritinq.
LT. GOVERNOR LEE: ~lait, Loui s .
MRS. ROSS: You have a resolution for th"!
031
31
council did by r~solution aDprooriate that money last year
in their hudqet aooronriation so it is an official document.
It is my understanding we are entitlEd to spend UD to the
mon<~y that tho.y apnronriated.
IIR_ STPASS:':R: Th,;y am)ronriated 5750,000, as
indicat~d in this document from the state. We have those
documosnts. Tho. state has se~n them. I think, I don't
(,
(
kno\oJ""!1ether!1r. l-Iahhenersonally has seen them, Hr.
I.e•..l5.sand the others, but th~re is no question about this.
It has be~n discussed by county officials \oJ~thst~te
off:ccials and renresents from the college and the state
Bo~rd of Community Colleqes, State Planninq, General
LT_ r,OVEPNOn LEE: I need some helD, Eill.
I came in late on this ao'?nda. I-Ihatis the relationship
I.m. GOLDSTEIN: Tpey ar~ both relat~d.
LT. GOVEllilORLEE: Are they the same oi~ce of
lann?HR _ LElHS: No. The board is requir"!-dto anprov~
th~ sit-=, location, for a:-1V comru.unity coll~q-::, so !'v!-7
is basically aDoroving that location.
LT. GOVE~<lOR LEE: Just aDproval of the site
032
32
of the coll~ge.
MR. LEWIS: Riaht. p-2n is the approval hy
the Board of th~ acquisition of this parcel of proD~rty,
state narticination.
LT. r.OVERtlORLEE: I a,<,.tyou. That.:.s wha-::I
~Ianted to kno\./.
MR. C,C1I"DSTEH1: Secondly, you are also
approving the archit€ct, Cohen and Haft, Holtz, K€rkton,
KarahaJ:ir. You are doing hlo things, approving th'!.S; .•....;)-~~
and th= overall planning, architects, th~n also i~ p-20
you anprove aC'luisition, Vlhich se-::sthe price for the
r~mainder of the land.
LT. GOVr.R!lORLEE: Riqht. Is there any !,rohlem
about 11-7?
IIR. GOLDSTEIN: !-laybe""'9 can he3.r from th" lTlan
I.m. JOIlNSm!: F'rsd Johnson, l\ssistant Ex""cutive
Director of the State Board for Community Colleq~s. The
State Board r~quires that a resolution he for~ardcd prior
to any allocation by the Board of Public HOcks and the
..
033 l.m. STHj\SSER: I thi~]~ th", d'o.tail<;d hack-up 0:1
this is on file and certifi~d.
,.m.• J0Il11Sml: Hiqht, sir.
1m. GOLDSTEIN: Ar" you qci"g to have to
conde~n anyhody's land and ~akg thsm move out of th~ir
hom" to q"t th" 200 acr.;:s?
I.m. STRl\SSER: 11r. Comntroller, '~-e hava not
rsachsd that staae y-et. Hg "lr", in th" proc'?ss of
negotiating, a:1d this narti_cular own:r is ,",'illi:1g to 5.,;;11
and offered this ootion. Ilost of it, I ausss 99 p."reent
of it or mors is onen farmland, und~vsloned.
LT. GOVERNORLEE: Thi" ;.~ 11 v.;ry k".y ~J."""~nt
in th~ Gsrmantoh~ mast~r nlan, which has been revised
a~d I think nm.! ?.nnroved by ",v'?ryhody invol 'lsd, and its
5.rnnortanC'2; is hard to ,=xaqq~r a t-s.
Is thare any e,uastion ahou>: Item 1.1-7 from
anyhody an~~here in this room?
(No resnonse.)
LT. GOVErolORLEE: We will dispose of that.
I.IR. GOLDSTEIll: I want to he sure everyhody
agrses this is th~ riaht 01ac8.
LT. GOVEHNORLEE: Thi sis th'a riqht plae,,",.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: And to mov", peool'? cut and have
33
034
34
controv'~rsy like. th~y had in TaJ(oma Park, I want tho';
r~cord straight, you had all th~ controversy. A lady
call~d m~ el~ction day. Sh~ hqS canc~r, diabetes and
a lot of comnlica tion s. You k:l0'1 the lady.
LT. "OVEmIORLEE: I r:nol1 th." ladY.
HR. "OLDSTEIN: I ",ant to b" sure 10]'3 are not
causinO' anybodY to hav~ any sickn'ass or any illn .•.s5.
IJRS. ROSS: Hr. Goldstein, "'", actually hav'~ a
community advisory committee that is v~ry sunnortiv~ of
th~ co11oo:0",;her~ so hone-fully you \o:i11 h",ar good things.
from them.
LT. GCVr:~~!0R LFE:
your E.asy on'es.
to of
1m. GOLDS""r.IH: I ,,]ant to be sur'? it is i:. th"
r~cord. Nhen I-]Sgo to Hontgom",ry County, cve.rybody l.-ill
be nic~ il:1d Jd.nn.
LT. GOVER~lORLEE: They Inr.~ v"'ry nic-" to you on
Tuesday. I"hat is your nlqasure on this?
!IR. "OLDSTEr:;: I move I.'e approve it, ",i th
lov~ and aff~ction. L'3t' s get tl1.1 r",cord straiaht. That
is all I a~ doing, is getting the r~cord straiqht. Herq
is th~ place to talk about it, riqht hare.
LT. (:OVER:o,ORLEE: Duly mov"!n and seco:,d",o,
Item 1'-7 annrov"d, and I'lithout obj ection it stands approv~d.
035
35
Now, P-20. Is th~r~ any nrobl~m on th~t?
~lR. GOLDSTEIN: No. If th3.t is the situation,
I mov'~ \'I~ anprove that, \.,ith lov'S and aff~ction.
LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Do you second the motion
1.,Iithlove and affsction?
GOVERNOR TA1'1ES: l'1~.th lov.a and affection.
LT. GOVERnOR LEE: Duly moved and second~d,
Itsm P-20 b~ apnroved, \-lithlove and affection.
ac>prov-;,<1.
It is so
J.lR.ST!V\SSER: Thank you, \d th lov~ and aff".ction.
LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Get out of here.
Do~s "ch:~tccnclud-a ~v::r~".thir..qfrcm th-e community
col19qe ar~a.?
~m.LEI-lIS: I think so.
I,T. GOVERNOR LEE: The stat", nsoartmeni: of
Education, Dr. Earhart.
DR. Bl\RNES: Governor, this is hand carri"d,
GrF, It2m 5-D, a r~au~s~for an Assistant Sun~rint~ndg~t
for Snecial Education. Thsy do not have currently an
Agsistani: Sup-e.rint-endent. This is in the nart of til••
Dspartment of Education, to carry out the recent court
decisions
DR. El\f~lIART:19"1 f) decrse. \'lehave tlla,'Judae
f\
036
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36
Rain~ court decr~~.
LT. GOVERNOR LEP.: Just a moment, pl-,:as'",.Do
you have anoth~r CODY of this on~, K'an?
Quentin, identify yourself once again for the
r~cord.
DR. EARlmRT: I am Qu~ntin Earhart, D~puty
state Supzrintsndent of Schools, here to requ~st
consid~ra~ion of th~ Board regarding sstablishm~nt of a
nosi tion I,'hichDr. Barnss ref-arred to. I think it might
he aD~ronriate for a f~w comments about the snecial
educatio:l nroqram, v.'hich no,",has grown substa!1tially to
annroximate1y $35 million this YA~r. and it requ~st ~hat
has b~sn at least sent in' to the Denartment of Budg~t
and riscnl P1anninq in ths amoun~ of 55 million for 1976.
LT. GOVERNOR I,EE: !'Iewill discuss that later.
DR. EAmmRT: I'le.,ill discuss that lat:=r, not
wi~h lov~ and aff~ction,I guess, but in th~ t~n y~ars
that I have b~'2.nVllth the Deoartment, I have seen this
nrogr3.m groH from rouahly $1 million, special education
purposes, including home, hospital instruction, to thos
figur~ which I crav~ just a few moments ago.
1-1-: view the matter as involving anoroximatsly
125, ()()n childr-~n bv th-e tj.l'1~'th", law is imT)l~m,=,nt.=d,Which
037
37
allows for a five-y~ar phasing neriod, and until the court
d~cree is implemented, and you do hav8 a year's grac~
period to implement that decre~, hut it has grown in
such a \olavthat "'~. have tried to keen ahead of th.,..
rsquiremen'cs of th" lal'7, and of course give servic.;s
to th~se children.
11",thin): that at this mom~nt V7ehave about
70 p'?rcent of the childr"!n b'i<ing givan programs, or being
provided nrograms, and ohviously we hav~ no choiCe, th~
state hasn't any choice exclmt to nrovid-a 100 nerc.;>,nt
coveraae, includinq some of the oth<;r stat"! institutions,
naM'~ly'Pos'il\olood,~'7h"re aonroximc:tl?ly 300 childr"!n aro; nOl'7
located.
He feel t!'a-: this is servic'o< to these hanc1icanpsd
children; that is a prim", function of the state at this
noin'c. .This matter has he"?-np5.m)ointe.d by lal,. I-Ienoeed
high-l"?-v"?-l leadershin to sunnort the prOqram and make it
nossihle for th.~se children, and their narents, to have
fre" nub15.C ed\1ca~:ion.
Judge Raine's decree definitely spells out
that ~ducation for thqse childr.~n sh?ll !n fr~e.
DR. BI\R!JES: Gov':rnor, according to our DOS':' 'cion,
th",re are 19 peoole in the sr>ecial educatio!l. nrogram in
(
,
"
038
38
aRk-ad for 11 nel" t)(lsitio~s but discussing this Hith the
Gov~rnor he f~lt giv~ them on~ that would create th~
division status and call for leadership and they would have
to justify additional ones in view of the current load
of ~'ork.
He hav'Sn't qotben to-th~t y'~t.
DR. El\RHl\RT: !']-af-aOJ1 we mURt forge ah'~ad 11ith thi
l'roqrar.l.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: Is this a merit syst2l11 job?
DR. El\REART: This ~Iill be an unclassifi""d job.
DR. Bl\R:-lES: Non'S of their nrofessional jobs
HR. GOLDSTEIN: Do 'lOU h3ve Romebody in mind
t'1i.l',: is e:.;nsri",nc~d? Tvill th~y be from !-laryland or do
you hav'.~ to q,~t th',om out of C'1i.cago or T1isconsin?
LT. GOVLIUWRLEE: . Th3t is a local D"!rson.
/.lR. C;OLDSTEI,I: Do you '1av" sOr.l'i;body in
!-laryland to do thq joh?
DR. FAHI'l\RT: I think so .
. HR. GOIJDSTEIU: I am qlad to h-ear tha~. W,!
don' t n-e-ed an imnort at this tim-€'.
DR. E.'\.R1!JIR'I': No.
LT.
r'"
i
,,\.
039
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39
to cr.gat~ on~ n':;\.'nosition of Assistant Sut):?rint~nd~ni::..
HR. (;OLDSTT:IlI: I "7a:'l~ to be sur.,'. v.'~ hav"" a
r-~si<1e"1t of l1aryla'1d Hho i.s qi v~n an o"portu~i. i.:y to he.
0ualifi~d for this joh. So m.nv tim~R th~v ~RVS to go out
80r:,,""1':)(ly B:ld hri'1g thsm h2.r-a.
LT. GOVERnORLr;E: This one is going -co h",
local tal'''nt.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: That is good. I '-.'8':1t to h,,-
sur.?. It tal':$s fi v~ ysars to -;;:ducata. th~m arout what
Haryl'3.nd :l.s cil about.
LT. GOVER?TOR LEE: ! aqr-e'.=! ~'Jit.h you.
Ar~ vou movina approval?
1lR. (;OLDSTEnl: I mov-e approval.
GOVERnORTAlI'ES: S<;,co~ld'Sd.
LT. GOVEru:ORLT:I;: -Duly l:\ovsd and s~cond~d to
approve, Ibam GEF 5-D. l~ithout obj<,:ction, so annroved.
DR. BAR~F.S: There is on~ mor~ hand-carri~d,
G'2.n?ral Itsm 27-A, v'hich is from Hr. Ksnt, Assistant
Secretary of I~alth for Medical Care Programs. This is
a hand-carried item. Ths current pharmacy fee. is Sl.75;
Blue f.ross-Blue Shield pays $2.10. Th€- Hsalth DenarUnent's
budg~~ rqauest for PY 76 was $2. I think.
040
;.
40
l1R. I:ENT: Y-es.
John J. Ke~t, Jr., Assista~t Secr~tary,
D~nartme~t of II'~alth and r.lental l!ygi-an~.
LT. GOVER,'<ORLEE: Hold it, Jack.
.have a genius for losing th~s~ things.
I S'E.em to
,\
This is Item GI 27-A. Proc~~d, Mr. S~ct~tary.
IlR. KENT: Thank you, Governor.
As Dr. Barno.s point,!d out, the D~nartm" ••t is
requ~stin~an increass i~ .th~ nrofessional f~e for
pharmacists from the existi:lq $1.75 psr nrescrintion
to $1. 95. This deals ,'lith nr02.scrih-ad drugs only. lis
Dr .. Barnss noint",d out, "'''' have roi<quesi:eu in th~ FY 76
huc1get th;).t 'chis fee be incr'Sas~d to $ 2.
Th~ r-eason '..'o!?- ar.~ making t.h.t::r~qu"~st ~o(lay I
to go i:1to eff.?ct January 1, 1~75 is tho;>fact that
inflation has moved un so rapiuly ov~r the course of the
last y.,;ar, in narticular, that pharmacists are findJ.:1g
it ~xc~~di~qlvdifficult to m~~t th~ir cos~s out of th~
Just for ",difica'cio~l, the m<:dical urogram
r~imhurs~s nharritacists bas~d 0:1 t\-,l'O i.t~n~, O~.~, t:~~cost
of th~ ingr~di~p.ts,nnd s~conrl, t~~nrof~ssional fS2,
~:hi.ch is nossi.bly a misnorn~r. Hithin th3.t nrof~ssio)1al
(
041
41
fsoe go~s any salari,,,,s that ar-e involv'ad for nharmaeists and
oth'?.r "2mnlOV'a-es, th-e r~nt, utiliti'~s, cost of contain't!rs.
That is all ineludoqd i.n that nrof~s5ional fee.
LT. r.OVERNOR.LEE: That is what v;'! are t.'ilJdnq about
h~re today.
MR; KENT: That is \,'hat \'l~ are talking ahoui:.
today.
NO~l, as Dr. Barnes also noint'O.d out, Blue. Cross
and Blue Shield at the nr~sent tim. hRS a nrofessional
rsimhursem?-nt of $2.10. That fee has h~€n in sff~et sines
January 1 of 1974.
LT. GOVERnORLEE: 'rhis $1. 75 rab", Has
1m. J:n.JT: This was .2stahlish"d in 1970, a..'1d
no iner~as~ ~inee 1970.
DR. Bl\RNES: Th.~ nharmacist' s fee is th., only
on.1. that r~al1y h3.s~'t qon~ un since that tima.
MR. KENT: That is basically corr~ct,Dr.
I3n.r:1'~s, :..n sorn'3 ast)~ct all of th'9. oth8r f"?~s hav.;. in som~
\,'ay k"!nt nae-=:.
LT. r.OVERNOR LEE: l\re thBr« any (1uesd.ons?
'.in ~f)LD~'!'r:rn: MRV I ask you a nu~st.io:l! Jack?
04242
Do you hay"" ths $354,000 I.,ithi.n your budq~t to Day for
this incr~a~~d cost from $1.75 to $1.95?
1m. REliT: Hr. Comntroll~r, \oI~ estima'c,a if He
b~gin this January 1, 1975, which is ths D~nartm~nt's
r.",CJuss'cdav, that it I.Till cost anproximat-;!ly $269,892 for th"
six months r"'-fYmini.ngin th~ fiscal Y'5:ar and it is our
f~~ling that we do haye.th~ mon~y within our existing
budg",-t. Noe: ~.'ould not have to request any additional
funds, either from the Board of Public Horks or in the
d~ficiency annronriation.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: In other word~, you hav~
$2G9,OOO?
HR. KE)IT: Yes.
1m.. GOLDS~r:nl: Hhat tyn-=. of surveillancs do you
hay-" to k~en th"s~ folks from aoinq from druqstor<> to
drugstore and getting sey~ral nrescrirtions? They may
goet oj.nk Dills in Druqstore A, throw them in the qutt-er,
qo to Store A, g",-t blu.a pills. They prohably don' t like
that. Hhat checks and balanc-,os do you have on that systsm?
.1.m. KEllT: The only 1.lay that that is, or th~
indiyidU:l.l cun obtain a prescrint5.on is from a physician.
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I undsrstand. They qo ~o Dr. A
and get a ~r~scrintion.
/",,
043
43
MR. l:ENT: Ive ar", att"' ..nmting to oastablish
both I)rovid'~r and recipient profil~s, and to determine
individual cas,;s that nevi ate from the mean, the norm,
and at that noj.nt in time, to '10 ilnn talk \-lith physicians,
if ""S see that th",re is difficulty with certain
physicians, that their pr~scribinq nractices se~m to be
much deviated frem the norm.
At that point in time, if we find any
physicians ",ho \',1~ can':1ot ",ork 'oJi th, w::; th'~nqo to th€.
m-edical and chirurqical faculty, who no,~ has a vdry strong
p-,>",rrev ie," committee hecause th."y ar~ both conc€.rned about
-c.h= practic-as ,..'ithin th-: m-edical orof":a.5s.i.on, as ,~'~.~lla~
the costs.
They have been exc"2sdinaly •...•ell \-15.th th"
1.1R.G()LDSTEItl: llu!'\hsr two, are vou Up in your
computers to q~t these noctors and th~se drugstor~s ~aid now?
Ar~ th~y on tim~?
J.1R. KENT: t'~-ell, at th-~ pr~s-ent tim~, th~ pharmacy
is rU'1nir.q about three \-leeks frOM the time ,,'e r~c "i v"- the
bill. I~ is do\..":1 f:Lom sJ2:v-eral months a Y'?i::lr or y~ar and(
a hal f ago. l-J-sar'? ,,'ell ,-..i thin the nomal comrn",rci.'ll
04444
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Are you still getting a lot of
complaints?
~1R. KENT: We are d~alinq with tens of thousands
of nroviders, and tharoe is ahmys som~ comnlaints. lY,~ ar-e
d'~alinq \-lith a l'1i.lT:1no'c.hsystsm that nays 6 million hills
a Y8ar. The comnlaints I thinK ar~ €xc~edingly do~~ and
I think that th", system is, you KIlO"', imnrov~d to th~
point ".h;;r-a most of the old'ar nrobl"-Ins of the nast have
bsen don? a'~av ",ith.
1m. GOLDSTEIN: In other \>"ords, ~lhat you "r",
saying to us, a lot of th~sl~abus€.s ar.:S no;" b-e:t:1g cut',~d,
:ts that C"",...,...-e" •..?_ .
HR. KENT: That is correct.
I,m. GOLDSTEIN: I I'lant to h", sure ','e g~t -Chat
(
i:1 the r"?-cord so 1"'2.know "!xactl V wh""r". th", mon~y is com3.ng
from, and it ,d,ll not com" from th'2. ",merg£ncv apnroT)riation.
DR. BARNES: In order to g-:.t full legislative
aTJDroval, ',..s talb,d to" the Chairman of th" Ilouse
J\?t'ronriations, I,'ho says he ~..ill sunoort the r"qu'Sst. If
th~ Board annrov~s it it apn~arsths l~qislatur~will
handl':! it too.
LT. GOVERNORLEF.: You Id.ll handle that
cl~aranc-:.
045
/
45
DR. BARNES: Yes.
flR. GOLDSTEIH: In other words, what "'S are doi:1g
h",r~ today is suhj?ctto l~gislativ-a approval.
DR. BARemS: Any i:1cr'?as'e~..hich C'lUSSS legislativeapproval must (TO to the budq",t.
/tR. GOLDSTBIN: I:1 otheor ,,"ords,th", aopropriata
5.':1th= S"'-:::at;,",tIl hav~ to also anprov,,"this.
DR. DAR?I~S: T~at is right.
fer annroval .. '::hat. ~_s ccrr~c-::.
DR. B,"\m;PS: They hilY'! 30 days to aDnrov'c! c.~
or if th~y nO:1't, it automatically is anorov~d.
:,IE. <'OLDSTEI11: HOI" ahOl!'.: th =. mon=.y th-'i.Y "'p",nd
in th~ month of January?
DR. DARcIES: Thgy HilJ. act D" it .-J... •• ~
I\.
!!n. ~OLDSTRI:l: Okay.
L'l'. GOVEP.:10R LEE: Okay., Do I h=.ar a moti.on
on this cm=.?
il?. ~OLDSTEI:~: I mov,~ that vl~ apnrov'l:'! it, subject
046
46
to th'", annroval of the Joint Budqet and Audit Committ.~~ of
the Gen~ral Assembly.
GOVr.mlORTAHES: Second. Okay.
LT. GOVERNORLEE: All riqht. !lotion duly
made and s~conded and I'lithou'C objectio:1 so ordared.
I have s~v~ral other n~opl? •...•ho I<'ant to make
nersonal apnearanc'C\s on sned.fic i terns. Hadn I t WE. b",tter
take them un now? Buster, \':hat is th,o first of th'd onss
you ",a!1t to hear?
HR. PHIPPS: Douq Talmey, Director, Bal timore
Recreation and Pnrks, I~ould li.k"" to sn",ak on 28-A,
Secretarv's aaenda: Proar.am Open Sn~c~.
LT. GOVr.RNORLEE: \'1hich agenda is this?
HR. LE\'lIS : Proqram Onen Snace.
HR. PHIPPS: Sunnh~ment A, 28-A.
HR. TAI~NEY: I am Douglas T3.\':ney, Di.r€ctor of
Recreation and Parks for Baltimore City, and th~ pur~ose
of nv ann-~are.nc'S todav i.s to r~qu'a:st.of your honorahl-;
Board a variance of a nrevious grant under the On~n Snace
ogram. from the D'i!nartment of lIatural Resources for
acquisition and demolition of St. ~Iary's Seminary grounds
and a huilding on said qrounds.
You had anprov~d on Decembzr 5, 1973 a grant
047
47
apnlication for a purchase prics of $450,000, olus
$131,023 for the demolition of a buildina of almos~
ons million and a half cubic feet.
Th'= purnose of our aDP~arance today is to
requsst that that qra~t application b", amended to D,;,rmit,
rather than the city to demolish that huildinq, the
Sulnjcian Fathers who are th= OIm'20rsof the building to
ta,:? it dOl'ffi, for t\.'o r-aasons. One, \"'" feel from having
tar..<O.:1E.stiamtss through our D':.partm~nt of Housinq and
commun~.tyD,,-v"!lonnnnt, which is in chargs of demoU.U.on
of buildinqs for the city, that th? sulnician Fath~rs
,, ca:. a cheaper rat? than the ~stimat~d S131,000,
hu':: mor"" iIOIDortant, the sulpician Fathers, and Fathe.r
John Sullivan, a director of the st. Nary's s-;minary,
to rax~rcis~ very close sc't"uti~'\y and control ov~r th-=.
contractor as he tabes t!1e s",mi':!ary huilding dCvln,
b""cause of the proximity to that building of the st.
I"ary's Chapel, ",hich is a very famous and ir.mortant
his~oric and archit~ctural pi"?c'3 of structur~ a:'ld also
th~ \>!Orld-famous r~oth~r S-eato!l Jlous~ is ;!xtrem~ly close
r-y.
(
048
48
1'7~havo; had this rsqu-ast from th" Sul?ician
Fathers that th€y \-!ouldassume th~ supervision of th,,_
contractor ",ho '1ould take that huilding dOvm. That is the
sense of our r"que st today.
LT. GO'lERNOR LEE: Does Father Sulliva::1.want
to apn~ar?
l-m. Tl\!'1J-lEY:Yes, sir.
LT. ~OVEm10R LEE: Father, do you want to come
over here? Would you identify yourself for th~ r~cord, sir?
Fl\THER SULLIVl\N: I am Father John R. Sullivan
of St. 1Iary's Seminary, 600 North Paca Street, Baltimors.
I am the director of ",hat is lsft of the
No,',', do you \\'a':1t r.loe to mak~ any T)r~s~nt(l_tj_on or
do you Hant m?_ to answ=:r rruestio:1s?
LT. GOVEmlOR LEE: Let me ask tne Board
rnsmbsrs, does anybodv have any questions about this
proDosOll?1m. GOLDSTEI:l: The only question I have is
the historians un there in Baltimore and conservationists
are sav5.na that th~y don't \-'antthis building demolished.
LT. "aVERi'lORLEE: I think th.dr concern
is for the ehan?l and the f-loth<:>rSeaton Hauss. isn' t
'.
049
49
that corr~ct?
HR. GOJ,DSTEIN: I don't ):now. I visit€od the
I.lotherSeaton llous'S. I thin k the chapel is one of ttje most
beautiful in Am>:oric:'l.I ,'.'asth'o?r~to one of your '''ondsrful
s9rvic9s last vear. I am haoDY that is restored as
a house of the Lord for neonle to go in and m'9dit:'lt~. It
is h;o.autiful, a great contribution noi: only to ~I:'1ryland
but i:o the entire nation.
FATHER SllLLIVAN: Thank you very much.
LT. ~OVP.RNOR LEE: Could I ask just one
0uestion, FathBr? Is it reasonahle to assums that th~
order would smDloy a professional d~molition outfit to
do tha job?
LT. ~O\1ER;l("\RLEE: I am sure your folks
hav~ not b~~n train~d in wr~ckaq~.
FA'I'HERSULLIVAN: Y"s. \']<;, have alr<:ady asked
bid~ from thr~-e nrof~ssional wr'Sckinq comnar..i'=s, dr:moli tion
compani£s.
GOVERNOR TAI'IE~S:Louie, your referenCe just nO'''
to the historical valu'9 of this, has that hs<?'naone into?
llR. GOLDS'I'EII1: G€Org'd Loswis mad"" a study of
Dr."erving the building and using it as an adjunct
,\
050
50
offic~ building to 301 W9st Preston.
MR. LEWIS, That is right.
~m.GOLDSTEIn, Nq have a renort h"r~ sayino he
\'Tou1dn't rs.col"ln'.?:1.dit, D?cause of th" $45 per squa"CHfoot•
cost for '!:hs old bU7.ldi:1q, as comn'lrdd to $55 ner sqnar"
foot for i'l n""" mod'i!rn mi'lsonry-s'l:e~l construc'i:ed building,
is that corr9ct?
I.m. 1.E\-1I5: y~s. sir.
HR. GOLDs'rr.IN, You r~eommend6d \0]'" not r""novate
it and US2 it as an offic~ huiJ.di~g.
to th~ stat". This "las from David Gordon, renres"nting
them, if you r~cal1, mainly D~eaus? of the nrobl~m of
parking and r~novation of the buildinq. This of cours.,
.if it l'la'S r'?TIovat",d at $45 a squaJ:e foot loJould still h",
basically a til:'.!::er struct-"lr'2. huilding in sid" , I.•h:i.<:his obvi.ousl
not d",s1r3.1119 for modern offies!>.
MH. r;OLDSTEEI, ll'?re is a lot of mat'~rial I hav."
got on it.
LT. G()lJER~mR LEE, \~hat kind of mat~rial?
!m. r;OLDSTF.IN: The v~ry thing h", is talb.ng
about, sunnorti"1o data, higtoric or'-;:s;,rvatio:l. I thiny.
/
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051
51
llr. To••.mssnd is h~re ••.,ho Hants to talk about it.
LT. r,OVEmlORLEE: Do you have a prohl'Sll\ ••.,i th
this one, Arthur?
HR. TOH:.JSEND:Considsrabl«, Y'3s.
~m. GOLDSTEIN: It is a v'<.ry controvsrsial issue.
LT. r,OVEPJlORLEE: Let 0 s havs the \.,hol", thing
ou-:..
llR. TOlmSErm: Arthur Tmvnsend, Director of the
Haryland Historical Trust and also State lIis':oric
the buildi:-:q is on the national Regist~r, th~ SeatC:1
EOllS''? as d. iia'.:iallal 19.ndmark, illso i:h"i. chl:H')~la Ii.: waR
(L~~m~dbv th-,; Housing and Urban D.!V.~lopm~nt and P.",d'9.ral
\'Ihich \.,as r''OCTuastsd from th.;; Comnis:cdon on Historic
Pr~ssrvation of th~ City ot Baltimor~.
Th~ lOr-; nrocB:dur'S ",rent through. Th~r-=. w~r.::
(,
052 th~ d~molition.\v~ have qr~at fselinqs ahout th~ huilding, not
o~ly from its architectural st~ndooint, but it is a
Dald\'li~and Pennington buildi.ng, a r"-marJ:abl",structure
in itself, and it is also th~ site of Ii considerably
r.istorical r8Port. Fath~r Sullivan can addr~s5 him5~lf
to this.
I b~li8ve the Baltimore Cov~nant \'laswritten
th"re for the Catholic order, and I,!ef"1t that it \\"'1<;
imt)ortant for ~h~ci'i:.v and for "choe stat-s:, if nossibl'S,
to S<5-:;kal t'=;rnativ-:.uses. I I'!rot""!)oth the l\rchbishop
a!'.dF'1tr.srSullivan back i~ January and asked th.o.mif
thsy w"ould consid""r g-ettincrtonethcr with us, sit d01.'n
altsrnativs U5~S.
In hoth CRS"-S thc,,-resnons<; w"as th'lt :10 furth""r
52
Tn other \'lords,a d~nial
into th", 105 I')roCedur'?5,to sse I,.'heth"ror not I'''Scould
in fact fi::d al t'~r~::ltiv,~us"Z.s.
LT. GOVF.K,OR LEE: Is th~r~ Fed~ral mon~y
involv~d in this on~ration?
HR. 'rOHHSEllD: At this tim,;?
953
53
LT. GOVERNORLEE: Y""s.
HR. TOh'NSEllD: No. It is just on the R"gist.er.
Of cours''!, if Pathar Sullivan nroceeds ,~ith the
LT. (',oVERNORI,EE: Ho"! did you ge'.:: a 106
h'l-ari!lq cranked un?
I1R. TO\'illSEND: Because of the nroximi ty to
ths HUDurhan d~veloClm"nt which is no\<' going on.
LT. GOVERNORLEE: Proximity?
I,m. Tl\I-nJEY: The nronerty, Governor, li',;s
,,!ith;.n a n~iqhhorhood developm"!nt program that is
rec~ivinq some funds. It is sho~~ as orchard-Biddle
(
lle.ighborhood D~v<;lonP1"'.ntProgram, and this nron",rty,
althOUGh not rsceivinq any funds, and not nart of the
LT. GOVERllORLEE: It is a t"nuous r"lationshin
h~s\;.
HR. Tl\1'1NF.Y:I-Ie had to go through this 10(;
nroc,~,,,,dinqs b~ca use of nrox).mi ty.
LT. GOVErelOR LEE: I get you.
L~tm~ ask you, Arthur, ",hat is the. status
I" that on th~ llCttional Reaist"r of Historic Site!>?
r.1R. TO\'!NSEND: y~~, it is.
54I,T. GOVERNORLEE: lIs a buildinq or par';; of a
054district of what?
IIR. TOWNSEND:No, as a buildinq.
LT. GOVERNO~LEE: Alonq with th~ chani-l?
I.m. TO\"1NSF.:m:Y~s. Th",-yars also s-..narat-e
of Gsn~ral S~rv).co.s looy. into this building' to s~s \'Iheth~r
or Poot it Has f~asihl~ to find "lternativs uss, and from
ths renoct that vou have -- and s"'.crstary Le\olis can
csrtainly address himself to this -- th~ $6,750,000
ro.novation f-eq is $~4 a square foot roughly and to
renlac"'. tha'; snacs, the saM'? amount of snacs \./ould DS
ov~r 8 ~illion,or $35 a souar~ foot.
h." nruch!~t to, if in fact \..'.,. "rs not in a nosi '::io)) to ui:iliz-
this buildinq d.ght n::n./, or ev~m r-e.novate ths bufldinq
r5.qht no\./, to use thO':conc".nt of mothballs that
possibly th~ state could nurchase this buildinq from th~
Sulnicians and mothh"'.ll it, nut it away and stor: it
for a few ysars, until ws ar€ eithsr in a position or
( It is a crim'? that v.'e hav", "\;\"0 st"l.te
Q'?n::irtm'?:'lts, on'? v15_11inq to f i:1anc-e th~ d~moli tion, n.nd
055
55
ours'elv~s .1illinq to, h~r-,;, to sav~ th~59 buildings, that
do'=sn 't hav'e to occur.
LT. GOVERNORTJEE: H~ll, no',,-, did you brin(]
your ch-,;cl: Hith you to buy the building?
llR. TOHNSEND: (~" Hould bs lo-'illinG to heln
out. r Hill say that. ('7e. do h~v~ some F'ed~ral mon~y,
..(
and w~ ,'.'Ould h~ hanny to heln any oth",r de.partme:1i: I"hich
is willing to go along with this.
HR. GOLDSTFI'l: r have. a cO:1tract in my mind
h~r~.
Hav I as}: a aU'2s~ion?
LT. GOVERNOR LEE: Y'?s. I have. a feelinq
Fathet" Sullivan and Hr. Blum I'la:lts to g-=.t i:-:to th'20 act.
llR. GOLDSTEI,l: I-!r. Towns~nd "'ants to mothhall
d B l~. t .. d ?a:'1 a I.-~MOr? ~ar 1.'to ourl..
llR. TA!mEY: Y",-s, sir. I didn't wan~ to ~~t
(
i:1to this. \ole have. il!'J aonrov'2.d qrant from your E03.rei.. If
searchi.nG. I"e, the City of Bal tirnore., elld Fath7'.r Sullivan
••we. hav~ he.~n ssarchi.nq for alternate. uss for this
056
56
th~ 110~her S••aton Hous••, sinc'?; 1966.
1'1•• have h••",n to the Univ••rsi~y of l1arylanc1,
w,;,hav~ h~~n to th", University Hosp5.tal, ~le have r~""n
to out' Ds.nartm",n': of Education, we l13.vebeen to th.:,
Univ,~rs:'.ty of Baltir.1Ore, "''> h.3.veI:>••••n to pri vat", d,,;v'ilopers,
Ii ke I1r. Seruhi:1, \-1ho is doing th •• D"lv••dere Hotel. l,e
have don•• it and ths Sulpician Fathsrs have done it to
try to f:l.nd al t ••rn~ts us~ for this huilding.
7\11 ,.,s. h'~ar is proposals. Father Sullivan
~'ill tell you :'..na mom-e:ntthat they are really at th.,
end of thsir financial resourcz's for having a holdi.:1g
op~rat:'..on at this huildinG, and unfortunately in
Bal tiMor,,, City ,.,e don I t mothball vaC'll"',thuildings. !V€
fir~bnl1 th~rn~ventually, not voluntarily but that is"Jr..at occurs and the Sulnician Fathers are very \.:orri"d
that if this building stands vacant for a long tim~,
thers will ~ a dis3.strous fire and thi'.V are going to
los"" the buildings that really mean something to th",r.l.
That is th •• position that we find ourselv~s
i:1. 'rhe city is trying. to !lqln th", Sulni.cian Fath~;:-g
out of this terribl~ nrobl~m th~y find th~mselves in:
lots of proposals th~ building be us~d for this or th?t
057
57
I would like Fathqr sullivan to t.ll you of
his efforts through the ygars to try to reach 11 solution,
oth~r than to hays this ryark ar~~ around his Catholic
pr~cinctg.FATHER SULLIVAil: As br~.sfly as I can, and I
\,'illh s qlad to ans\.".rqu,~s-cions later on mor .• d-.tails,
you k:1o\-T as \01,;,11 as I do -eha;: chanqes hav" tak"n :olac~ in
t.O P..clli!1. Pe.rk a:1d \'7~ hac1 ;;t-:o y~?.•rs of or~ilosonhy, '::.h:;.'C
is ~h~ ~hird a~d fourth y~ars of coll=ga ~t Paca S-cr~~t,
abou'c 20n s.t.ud'~.n'cs.
ours",lv-asar.r1 \-lithths dioc€.sa.:~authoriti.-,s about '",hil.1:
to do, and He finally d";cid,,,dto movs the students throughout
to our collsas at Catonsv5.ll~, to combi~e those two,
because they had lost students too, a:1d th~n the qu~stion
was I of courso;:., ""hB..ti.:o de ~,..7:" t~ !'aca Str~~t.
\'1ho.n \~~ \-,,,-r9considsring moving thsm, w;, began
to look for r.oss3.hlere-uses. actually had to mov~
"I
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•...
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58
th~ stud9nts in 1969, and so they hav~ b~~n th~r~now
for five years. The building has :10 si:;ud=onts.
1'0\", nrior to that, to show you our int",r-esi:;
i:1 keening un the huilding I want to tell you that for
instance in 19';6we SD-=.nt\'!"loll oV".r $100,000 renewi':1g that
brick, and th,~ hricl: looks very nice as y'~u nass it nOlv
from 'i::h",outside, etc. Things ins;.de ar'Sn I t so n;.c"i!
but thi~gs outsid~ look nice, hut that is an ~xam~l~1
to sho\" you hOHmuch "'9 G.ctually lova the huilding, and
to dsmolish it is a last r,;!Sort on our p;;rt.
Secondlv, in 1967-68 \-''''also spsnt ovar $100,000
r~n~wi~g th~ cha~~l, 119c~us~this is a ~ational landm~rk.
I.light I also say, Hr. TO"'l1sandm'lntionsd that
"~h-2.bllildi~g i ts~l f is on th-e. National R~aist'9r. This
hannen,~d in 1973, \"ithout any r€CTUest on our nart, and
':"I.ot Oi'1l:y that, ,._,~,,!~r.q!1 't eV'S:J~notifi~d. ~.]~\'Jer-s just
lat<;.r on, I said this building is no'\: on tha Nation"ll
Regist.:.r. Thsy said yes, it is, it is put th"r=o. But
this at any ti~~. This was don~ without our cons~nt.
1'1=0think the hierarchy of the buildings there
is th". chanel, ,.,hich aoes back to 1808, and the ~loth."r
S,;?e.ton JIous~.
05'1
59
The buildinq its~lf, the oldest part of it is not
yet 100 years old. It was built in 1376, and then oth~r
,
narts werg added latAr,
As far as th~ archi~~ctur~is concern~d,sorn~
1'-sonle sa'.' it is IoJorthy to k,o'~n for th.;. archi tsctur".
Othsrs say just the opnosite. So I think we 'can say this
is th~ disnut~d point.
To come dmm to 'the hard facts, \~ithaut a long
recital, I 9ive you I"lY\-!orc1that I~e have tried from the
noint of view of qovernm~nt, Fadsral, state, city, to try
to find a r'?-use. 1'1'~h.'.l,ve'lone to nrivate d.'~vo.lo",i'<rs
and W~ hcv~ also gons to vcr1~~~i~3titutions.tlr. TOI.~s",ndm",ntionec1 my l",ttar to him at th."
h~gin:1i~q of this y,:~ar, tha~ I didn'"t S~~ \-lhat Hould b~
accomplish",.d by further meeti:1os. This \,:asn' t b'Scaus'S I
\"n.nt~d 'to nut Hr. To",n~~nd off, but it had a'On~ar.;.d1:'1 th~
pap",r lonq b""for-=:this that w'"" that the building was
<joi:1<j,and it ,.!as all of a sudd",n at the ",l~v.nth hour wh~.~
we had already mac1o.an arranqsl"l~nt with th~ Dspartm~nt of
Parks that this request cam. for further meetings, and
I'J. \.!er.",mot''? tha:1 r<>.adyto tall:, but \,": had talk~d so
much and \-.''''h'Oldhad so many ms'?tings, I simnly thought.
th"lt at th= mom~:1t,ther'., I-l'lSno nrocrr.'<;s in furth"r
060
60
m<;etinqs .
Th~n ~his qu~stion of 106 came un. We had an op~n
meet:i.nq on flay 21 of this year, and they nromis'?d us that
,.•<; told them that more d-.;lay, of course, was costing us
mon"£y. L<;t~me Dac!: un just a l:,ttl", bit. In .our efforts
to show you aq!l.in that "I"?-really did make efforts to tind
sOr.1ething to do with the huild::.nq and to heIn the.
community, I'loa rsnt<;.d 5.t for $1 a v-ear to I.lodel Citi ••s, to
I.layor Schaef'"r,. <lnd Hodel ci t:i.-as cam.• in and used the
t",o lo\,'",r floors and helned us l'lith some of the hills, but
sv,",-r.with the h,~lo that \'Ie r';,ceiy~d from Ilodel CitL;.s, it
still cost us, with no incomq, ovar S50,OOO a year, w.ll
over that bv ourselves.
N-,:;h3.v~ b~,'e;ns':.andi:1q that oaxnsnse now for fiv~
~r'?B.rs and H~ can r t do it any long-er. \\Ts just hav-::n I 1:; got
ths mO:1.ay,so it is not a Cluest5.on that l'le lov~ to demolish
ths bU~.ldinq, but there is no oth",r solu~j.on for us, and
SO ~? hav~ to COM~ to tha~.
To gst back 'co \.,ho.t I was sayinq about th",
meeting on Ilav 21, that Has \-J:'.th the Ac1v5.soryCouncil
of Historic Prss-o.:rv"ltion, a'1Q at that ms€til1q, i:hay
promis-~d us th"lt thsv ,,'ould mak-o.:SOI:l'" kind of a d.~cision
by ,Tulv and that "'~ would:1"c have this furth",r -o.:x!",=ms-a.
r\
61
061 Well, no d~cision was made, so further d~lay
set in. In the m~a~~im2, becaus€ of this state surv~y
that you iust m'?ntioned a while aqo, ".•~ waited for that
too, . and then y,;st'?rday in l'1ashington ,,'e most, we w,snt
over ~h."re and met l'Iith the Advisory Council yest-arday.
So I think ",e have coonsrat"d all we could.
That resolution, ,~hich you may knO\~, y~stt'!-rc1ay
,,'as til.}~snby the Advisory Cou~cil, vlaS som"thinq lik •• this:
v.'o2. commenc1Fa'cher Sullivan, the sulnician Fathers and the
city fOe all the effor~s they have made to find a r'S-us'?
for tho;; huildinq, and for th'lir coone:ra~io!l ",i th the
Advisory council.
l'1s, somsthtnq lik,,- this, vIe €Couraqe HUD,
Jy~cause this is th", lor;, ,,'~ encourage IIUD to sn-:ak to the
city ahout n«rhans a last and fi:'lal sffort to find
a US'9, p~riod.That ,,'as it. That ,~as their r~solutio:'l
yesterday, so I am just here to say that we can't, wa
just can't wait any longer, strictly for economic reasons.
(I'ie haven't got thB. nO:1ey.to naY for it any longer.
"'ill DO; qlad to anSv,."r any questio:'ls you have.
I
LT. r,oVF.remR LEE: If I r'2ad this descriptio.
corr.=.c'c Y I L:h'Z. .~.3.r~<:u~s-;;ion ::>f ci'!"'_rao.L~.tio'~:. "'.-:""C }).:;.fo::~'.
06262
this Board now. Th~ qu~stion is wh~th~r the demolition
money nreviously authoriz~d should or can be transferred
from the City of Baltimore to th~ Sulpicia~ Fathers. Isn't
that tha question?
1m. I.EIHS: The Board pr'~viously al:lDrov",d an i b:m
I'?hich qre.:'!t'OJdth'~ ci tv funds t.o purchas~ th-a building,
isn't th~t right, Buster?
IIR. PHIPPS: That 5.s rioht.
J.1R.LEI'IIS: The i tern today increases that
fundino to include d~olition.
ur. C:;OVERlJORLEE: It incr'i'a ses tJ1.'! amount.
IlR. TAmmy: Hhat Hould h,mnen, Gov?rnor, "th-?
Suln~.cians \-?ould layout the mO:1sy, and qo through the
co~tr'l.ctual Iwrk of oettino ths building dOl'":1,and th~n
inst~ad of thq neqoti'l.ted nrice of 5450,000 that ~~ had
COr:l-~un .I.,ith, that \0.'<; would nay th'! addition, th,,_
dsmolition cost, in ad~ition to th'e $450,000. W~ ar~
confid'ent 'that_ if the Sulnicia':1s do th~ I,'ork, th", arnOll:lt
of th~ dSlnol:!.tion \.,ill b", loess than 5131,000 thai: ha'i heen
nr~viously annrov~d.
Doss anycody hav~ a nusstion or do~s anyrvdy
.'\
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63
/lR. GOLDS':'En:: Is a:whoc1y h'~r~ frorr, IH.;n,
Balt:.mors C3.ty?
r.u~.Tl\l'nrEY: !To, sir.
IJR. GOLDSTEIN: Thsy ar-e. th,. ones that w,mtsd
IIR. 'l'AH,JEY: Th.~y S'l:lt us i"to 7.h":.lOG T)roc".~di:1qs.
11r.ich mak",s it ohvious th",v ",ould 15.k,. to s'",'~ i t or",,,'~rv.,,d.
proj -ect, find th~~only thi.~g that. can hann-e~, if \o.'e proc'i!.~d,
is tha-= th,~ymay attsr.tp-:: to "2;x'i:ract SOr:1'~n-an~l ti-es agai~st
~~~ city i~ th~ Orchard-B~ddl~funrling.
tho"? [)5.r",ctor for the R",qion of :.laryl.'l.nd. h", call~d in th~r"l
an attorn~v a:1d aave a v",rhal opinion that h", did not
thi!ll: HUDcould a.xtract such penal tiss, hut the Bal timor'!
City is prsn~red for that ~ventuality in this. \~'" think
,\.
thaLc 1,'-; ca:1 sustain l'2aally th!'lt th'~y could not extract
I.m. GOLDSTEIN: Suppose they did. Suopos<,
tr-.'~y ~xtracted p",nal ti",s from vou. \'Jho then "'Quld have
• 064
<.•
64
HR. TAI'lNEY: Th~ C:..ty of Baltimore •
HR. GOLDSTEIN: Th~y ~louldn I t corne to th." state
askinq for that money?
!-IR. TAIVNEY: \'I-a think ,,-a can S1stain our h,gal
position, thnt such nsnalti-as could not D~ ~xtr3ct~d.
LT. GOVERNORLEE: Doug, ,,,h'•.n and if this
huildinq is torn do,.m, ,.,hat then bscomes of the land ~1h~re
it us~d to-b~?
r-m. TAmmy: It becom'?!>nark oronerty.
LT. GOVEP210RLEE: Park nronsrty, right.
I~R. TANNEY: R5.qht.
~m. GOLDSTEIN: l-layh~ you should contribu;-;€
l!,R. GOLDSTEIN: I hav~ ~:alked all around thBre.
:.IR. TAI~~lEY: That 5.s a scho;matic of "Inai:. \'Iould he. p~'
to tho?_ ar-=.a. Every thing- in qr",~n ,"ould r-?nresent th'-~ park
)65
•
65
and th~ gr~~n would b~ the Catholic precincts.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: Here is th.~ building. All thj.s
is lovsly old treo;s. H'?re 5..s the chape.l. I sat tho;.r'~
on a beautiful fall day when they dsdicated that, and
the sun 11as shining dOI,'n, and I went through tha building.
Th~ !,lother Seaton House is right h-are, on Paca Str",;t, a
beautiful red three-story hrick house. She left th".re
in 1807 ",ith a hors<2 and wagon and I.ent to l:mrnittsr:urg
and started St. Joe College.
NP.. Tl\H,lr.y: I might add that the sulniciC\n
Fa'ch-:;rs hav~ q::"v'~nto th-a D~nartm~nt of Natural R'S,50urces,
a~d ths S::l3.'t~of naryl::l~c1, ~ sC'e:lic eass.ment on th ..~ la~J5
that they will retain, indicati~q ~hat nothing will. Mver
b~don.'! to that blu~ sec-;;ion that I.!ould chang", i ts charact.~r,
ar!d th"lt sassm"O'lt can b'?, h.::ld in nerD~tui ty, so in
addl tic;, to sellj;'lq us the lahd, th So Sulnicians hav.'
giv~~ a n<!rn~tual sc-e:1ic '?as-anent th~t this \'.'ill al',,,ays
rsma:i.n nark-li.ke and modifying th", chapel and th~ ;.loi:h;..r
Seaton llous~.
~1R. GOLDSTEICl: G~org'''', could th~.s T)lac~ lH
us~d as ~n adiu~ct to the stat~ Offic~ Building? A lot
of n~o1)l",-don't have a. plac~ to liv-a, voung q:.rl s, ,,'orking
•
'.•
066
66
!-IR. LEIns: I'le ar'$ going in the housing husin-=:ss?
HR. GOLDSTEI:I: I am trying to think out loud.
\"1.",could pay th" Sulpician F'at.h''!rs th,," mon.",y.
IIR. PHIPPS: \"1hsr-a\'Iould the money com~ from?
l"7$ couldn' t us~ thi.s mon~y.
f1R. r,OLDSTEHI: Th", state of Maryland iR not
that poor. Let' s tar.-a it dOI'mnOI')so Ive can accoPU11odate
Fath~r Sullivan, get him his money and naybe hav~ this
h"autiful park. I an just thinking out loud. I hav~ rass~d
hy h~r~ nany times. I was janitor at the old Dixon horne
on Park i\v-s.nue. I l'lonld lik'o? to hav« had a plac~ lik.,; this
Hit:" a hunch of fi.:l'9 m~n and qirlg and still b~th~
jan:i.tor in 1'136.
l.m. LnUS: One of th" things discuss.,d Idth th',:.
u!~iv"rsity I.;as th~ possibility of using it as a dorm.
FATHERSULLIVAN: y."s, 5ir. It I.;as fonnel to be
much too ~xn~nsiv'?-.
IlR. LEI'!!!>: Thi s was studi",d back in 1% 6 hy
th-a DeT)ari:rn..~nt of Pla:1ning I \"h~nJim O'Donn-:::ll ,.,as th~re..
I knol-l it ao'?s back that far. I']hen I oat i:1to it r,,;co;'.ntly
I had a discussion l'lith Jim and Ive tri~d to find his
nrsvicus study. It ",as suqq~s"c~d at' that tiM~ it }wcome
~.....••..•.....•-< ..•.• ,. "
•
',.
067
67
/~R. r,OLDSTEIll: ,l!,,-r'? you could use it for
the Univ'"r!;i ty of Bal timor'>., U~iv«rsi,ty of /1aryland
nrof-essiop.al schools. It is a nice, bsautiful walk do~.'n
Paca Stre"t. Clos"! to L~xinqto'1 '.!arb::l:s, I,.'h",re YOU ca~
You all ''.'allt your money to get rid of th'2 resoonsih5.l.:. ty,
is that right, s5,1:",right no"'?
FATHERSULLIVl\N: Not only that, 1'.'<; also flOel
that th'S local co~munitv, Seaton lIi11 comr.mnity is also
for th~ rl~.moli~tion: th-:; City Historic Pr'9.s~rvation is
al so for th" d",moli 'd.cn. \'~ehav~ com" to this qradu::\lly
and not as I sa5,d at the beg inninq, that I..'e wa:lt",d this,
r.ut '''cF.. havs COl!1~ to th~ conclu~;.oi1 thA.t: this is tho'';' })c?s-:
solution for the neiqhrorhood, and for th~ s~ttinq for the
what I~~ fe~l is a consid'e.rc:rle danq"r, if it "lould
Another building last niqht was set on firs
in BaltimClr';, an ",moty huild:;,nq. l'le are very frighb:ni!d
of thj,s becaus~ it ,",ould CjO uo in !;r.Joks. It. is all I'lood
•ins3.c1r-: and it \'.,Tould h9 a gr<e:at da:1g~r, \.,'El f'6~l, \:0 ths
oth9r huildinos .
•. oCR
,\
68
HR. r,OLDSTEIH: Than!: you, sir .
Fl\THERSULLIVl\H: 'rhank you.
LT. GOVERNORLEE: This nroperty occuni'.cs
ahout thr",?I~-(1uart~rs of a hlock, and I U5~ th~ \,?ord loos~ly
b~cause it has got a v?.ry strll:1G-:. shaps, th~re is a block
bounded hy Paca Stre~t on th~ east, Franklin Stre~t on
th", south, P~nnsyl va!lia l\venu':. onth<! soutlm?.st, and St.
l'arv I s Str~~t on th"'~north"J'?st 1 and 'Sv.::n a Ii ttl'?. hi 'cty
corner of Druid l\v~nu?. on the northeast.
I think a very stronq cas~ can be;:m:'ld", as far
as in terms of a hen~ficial result for Baltimore City of
hav1:1q a Dark h"i'.r'?-surrounc1i:1C1and setti:-:q of f th" chapel,
imnort?:1t h:cSi::Ol"icbui.ldings j.n this i'lr"a.
l\rthur, I "?Quld Ii};",. to ]:no',', has "t.h.",
a n~s~~~J..O~and th~v ,'.'ould l:J:~.~o 5:;; •. i:h2. huildi;-;.g r~_.1.;ai:1.~d,
if at all nossihl~. I th5.nk one thing for you to cO'"ls5.d"r
,, L'~. GOVJ:R'lORLEE: !'lh'~:1did th'?y do that?
nn. TOHNSE!~D: It has h';.'9.n50m2 tin ....). I d0:11~
h~v~ tile dat~. It h~R h~sn some tin~ ago wh~n the issue
069 first cam~ to light. It could b~ back in January or
69
F-s>bruary, hut if in fact th~ huildinc; is reMov~d, that
a good d~al of th~ s.r~n9n~ss and ths qualitv of th~ park
1'7hich nOl~ is b~hind ths huild:l.na will b'2. lost. Th.,.
traffic on P'lCil S'cn'!et, th" nois;;, I,:ill COMSthrou([h and
a good d'S'll of quality of ';:h?-o'1rk which no\<:sxisi:s, 'ch?
gr~"n snac';:! behind the builnlna, will in fact b? los'\:. It
1,:5.11b? on-c<nedun. It will chanq~ considerably.
I IJould hat? to s';:'" this buildinq lost in the
I thi.nk that is a -t;.;;rribi-?
I\'ay to '10 about: ?ff<?ct:l.nq qr?en ar"!as in th'? City of
~.. .: ,...:.._ .•.•. -. ,
(
that I\'hich ::',s h-;:h:l.ndth? building.
I annrqciai::? Fath~r Sullivan's nrobl~ms and
I think it is r'S'al and 199:l.timate, but I think that t,'", 0\-/9
it to historic Dr~s,-;.rv;'ltio~1a~1c1'to ;:h~ build~nqs of this
tyn9, li)~eQus~n City, which we have already lost, and
oth~r~ nrou~d th~ ~tat~, to finn alt~rnativs USq~ and us~
the b~st rasourC8S that \';,:1h:lv-e in th~. stat'? to do this.
1m. GOLDSTEI:l: ~lay I ask you a qusstion, /.Ir.
Gov?rnor?
LT. C,()VERl;()R LEE: Go ah-3ad.
"\
(
070
70
of equity. Evet'Yhody has to come into court \~ith cl",an
hands. You hav,"l nl'lced this huilding on the historical
list, according to Father Sullivan.
1m. GOLDSTEIN: !lumher on". Numb~r h ..", th",y
had no knOl...lec1ge of th'l.t.
1m. TOIvNSE!'lD:That is an u:1fortunate circumstance.
,.IR. GOLDSTEIlI: In o';;:hsr \~ords, here you :i.mposad
a burden on these good fathers
!.!R. TmmsnlD: 'I'hat is tru,;..
1m. GOLDSTEI!'l: -- to hold th.:.s oron"rty. NOI'"
5.';;:;mc1 orotect th£. ext.~rior, k-ssn the ~lindO\., panes from
J:s5.nQ hrol:sn. lIr~ you pr"mar~d torlay to nut un SOI'\":
I'JR. r,OLDSTEIN: l'1ell, nOI-7,I am taH:i:1q ahout
what is f~ir. You could do the same thing to som~ individual,
imnos'S. a r~st't"ictiv~ use of th~ir hot1a and .ch.~ym~yb--~
don't hav~~o nav tax~s? It ig an ~ducatio~alinstitution.
You don't hav~ to nay taxes to Baltimor~ City?
F!,THERSULLIVl\~!: That is riaht.
071
71
IIR. GOLDSTEIN: Look at tha burden imnos=:d on
th?m if th~y had to nay taxes.HR. T01'1NSEND: Th-ar~ is no burden by hsi:l.g
nlac~d on th~ Natio~alR~qist~r.MR. PHIPPS: It restricts tho? us'" of the nroperty.
!'1R. TOWNST:!lD: NO.
I,T. GOVEP.!IOR LEE: \'I", will stand in r-ac,,"sS
until 12: 30.
(\~h-=:reunon,at 11:45 a. m., the lunch~on r-scess
•..~as tal:en.)
072 A r ? ERN 0 0 N 5 E 5 S ION
72
(
LT. r,OVEmWRLEE: Very \Y~ll. l'l~ will rssum-a
th~ Board I s session, and h';;r~ ~le are still fac"" to face
~lith th" 5t. nary's S«r.li1ary.
!'-IR. ~OLDSTEIN: Nay I ask on~ qu-estion, Gov-=rncr
LT. GOVEPJ'IORLEE: Yss. sir.
IlR. GOLDSTEIN: /lr. Tal'.'1'l~v,this picture'. is
halfway on Paca stre~t. If my m~mory serves me corr~ctly
ru:minq dOI'.'T\ St. :lary's Strset .isn't that a high wall? .
IlR. Ti\l'INEY: Y'?s, sir. 'i'his is surround"'id by
a h~.ghwall.
HR. GOLDS'rEIN: will that he torn dOHn?
!-IR. TAI'I~lEY: No. l'l£ van'; ta r;:,-tain th" ~'-'i]1.
out to .thE. c01"nr.lunity and consul t th~m. ~h8 communi'ty h,=l5
exnr-;,ss'?d sone fsars that the park should not h€ w?lll''id.
IIR. GOLDS'i'Eln: The reason I ask that
I.m. TAl'l1'lEY: It is a bsautiful wall and si'ould
I.m. GOLDSTEI:l: Ilr. 'ro,,~s2nd r'Sr'arr",d to th"
nois'2.;.L.. -, c~r-~ of S~~.:. c~
tn--=. ~10.:!.S~. In oth~r ','lords, your trsss touch th", "Tall. That
73
073 ~ould cus~io~ t~~nois~.
MR. TA1~,EY: The wall would still qive you th~
~ffsct of an isolated, 0uite Dassiv~ ar~a.
l-1R.r,OLDSTr.nl: I ~'a5 tellinq Governor L~e, that
if my mernorv s~rves mq correctly I walksd through that
l
\
park not so long ago -- the ~all is around a big portion
of it. Th~ trees inside, certain tyP~s of trees, you
can nlant o~ tr.e outsid2 of the wall that will go UP r~al
straight and beautify it and as well as actinq as an
assth~tic 5~ns~, also cut down on nois~.
1m. TAI'1!'lE":Th1\t is right. I think sinc>'-you
curl:>alrsad" ..
1m. GOLDSTEI:l: I notic-ad that. That i\n~".'.er~d
the aU9stio:1. Is that right, Mr. Townsend, th.,.reis a
w~li around most of it that would cushion most of the
noise that you talk arout coming up Paca Str=st and ~h~
.other stre.~ts that lead into that arsa?
1'1R. TOIi'NSEt-lD: Yes.
LT. GOVEmlOn LEE: 1vhat is your nlsasurs,
g-entltm-:.n?GOvr.n:10RTAI'IPS: That is a r",al orobl .•m.
LT. r,OVr.mlOR LEE: It is a orobl~m.
1I.
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074
74
GOvr:mlORTAWES: It is a tough o~~ to mak~ a
d~cision on. It r~ally is. I don't know.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: This is unusual, sir. Hqr-e
you have. the Hayor of Bal timors ci'cy asking to hav,"
the. thi~q dsrnolishsd. You havq th~ nark psople un ther~
,,'anti.no it torn dQ\m. You have our historic p-eopli':,
I think, Governor L~~, you are a memb~r of that board
LT. r,OVJ::Rl:ORLEE: I am a truste~. I am
a m~mherof th~ Histor:tcal Trust r~oras-snting Gov'6rnor
IJand~l on that. But I "'.vide.ntly \'-'as not th"r'" ,.]h>!.nthis
was put on the agenda.
,'()VF.RNORTA1'1ES: Thev havs the ord-er. Th",y
",ant to be relieved of the burden of that building.
~IR. r,OI,DSTF.Ill: I understand, if an O,"~ler .tears
the building do~~ th~y couldint~rf~r~ with Baltimor~
Ci tv's mm. I ch",cl:ed. That. is my und-erstandinq. Th-=
Q\"Cl'?r, befor"" h" makes a s3.1e d~cid~s to d~molish a building,
that is his responsihility.
~m. 'l'AH1'lEY:That is corr-sct.
HR. GOLDSTEII1: They couldn't conv"!y thi1t
r~8no~sibilityto naltinor~ Citv, am I riqht in that?
HR. T01'1HSEND:Ye.s, sir.
1m. GOI,DSTEnl: 1'1-:; are not je:mardizino the
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75
Orchard-Biddle Str~~t nroqram.
~'R. TOHllSEI1D: 'I'hat is riqhL
1m. GOLDSTT::I11:I I-:ant to b" sure I~'! unn.;.rstand
that b'!fore act:Lo, 5.s tay:"!n so th-1Y C3.n't say ~J'" in th~
Board of Public I-Ior!':s i<?onard5.zsa the actions of Ea.ltimor'?
Citv. Is the huild:.:-,q being torn down?
'1R. T1\I-nmy: The ()rchard-l3iddl", Str:,-:;.t -•.r",a:
old Orchard Lnundrv.
GOVERNOR T1\\'IES: 1\1'", they tSi'xinq tha'c do'.>-n?
~c~~cn,CCD1G ~ot
t,
of the off~rina of th"! lann for sal~ for wha~sv~r ournos~s.
It is ~on~d rnllch hiah~r thall for nark us~.
7h~v ar~ r~ally taki~q a fi~a~cialsacrific~
to n':-:.rmit th~ city to mak~ a nark fr.em it, but thai:" 5.5
all th-i? ,,;ffor-::! thsy have mad'? to hav2- it for sam;, oth",r
us'? comnat:.hl'~ I-,ith the occunancy of th~ oth=.r !milnings
,..•hic?1 th-~v d":!'3M mast 5.I~noLtant.
r.!R. GOLDSTEI!J: Th~ n'Sxt qu-estion I hav~~, bassd
076
76
of thi~ huildinq bo.ing made a national historic shrine.
/lR. TOHNSEND: I
MR. GOLDS'fEIN: I have som(,iopapers in my fil~.
It gives the 13 5teos that '10'=5to naminq or nomin~ti:lg
a bu5.1dir.afor that cateaorv, is that correct?
HR. TO\'lNSEND: That is corr6ct.
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I think ons thing is missing
in th",r,=. I think on NO.1-A, the owner should be notified
of the fact that his or her pronerty or the corporation's
property is b~ir.g considered for this tyoe of designation.
!!-=.reyou hav"'!first l!'.ltionalR~qist"r cO:lsid"ration,\
roql.l~st: 3,
nr~naration of forms, matching ohotoaraphs; 4, "0ron"rly
,,
co~sul.t.: r;O.~l"~rnorr S cornm:.tt-e-a, comnl-=.t=. nomina. tion foms,
stat~ cl-earina house, G, comm-:.ntsobtain~d from Dc:rt:i.n~nt
agencies, "7, clearing house ",ends comm€nts to SPO.
l.m. TOI-nlSElJD: State Preservation Offic"",.
1m. GOLDSTEIN: 8, nomin3.tion read by li~utE.:1ant
offic~r, nom!nation lJational R~qister, :~ationalRegister
and sta~:f rsvi'=lv,final approval for ]:ational Regist"':r
entrv, notifica~io~ of Co~ar~5~m~n~~d SPO, 13,
notification of O~."J1~rsand th05"! int"er~st~d. That ought
L? ~OVr.R~ORLEE: l!old H:, h:;ld That is
077
77
the nrocedure as of now. It is quite recent vintage.
I think I am correct on saying this was not the procedure
at the tim~ of this particular hui1dina.
HR. TO\'mSmJD: I ~!ant to apo100ize to Fath<;r
Su11iva"'l.
LT. GOVF.R!lORLEE: There w,~r. a numher of
instances that led to adootion of this orocedure, so now
everyhody and his qrandmother has qot a finoer in th~ ?ie.
HR. TONJ.7SEllD:That ;.s right. Th", o"rner!< are
notifi~d .,.,hen '07~ ar~ consid-erlng nomin~..ci()ns.
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I didn't 1<no"lthat. I happened
to the qood father and his n~on1e, you impose an &wfu1
hurden on folks to maintain a hui1ding \d.th no i:ocom'?.
~IR. TO\'1NSr.!lD:I annreciat", th.at.
HR. r.or~DSTr:IJ1: That is on~ reason I ",'ould be
inclined to vote lettinq them 00 ahead and takinq it do~m
and let Ba1timor"! Ci tv nr"!serv"> it Hith the \~a11s axound it
so th-e p~onl~ in the ar-ea hav'?.a olaca. to comrnun'~,.,..ith
hann~n~dhack i!l th~ early <lays, ~.;hata gr~3.t indivic.ual
HR. TONNS:::ND:I tJd.nk that 5.s -- if that is
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78
th~ only course to take that is th" action that will hav~
to h~ taken at this ti.m~.
LT. GOVF.Pl10RLEE: I am Derson~lly reluctant
to he nartv to th~ dsmolition of any building that is
eith~r historical or of great archit~ctural valus, or both,
but once in a while you com~ to a situation whc.r~ th€re
5imoly is no other course. New I don.t know if thE
Gov~rnor is ti~inq his vacatio~~ on purnos~ ~his way, hut I
distinctly r<!-c3ll being stuck ",ith tha Queen City Hot"l
in Ctunherl'l.nd on a nrevious occasion wh.sn I I-'as pinch-hitting
"\
for htm. I am aoinqto q<=.tv'i!.ry sus,-,icious of the I'/hole
!-IR. GOLDSTEIN: On that Qua>;.nCity Hot",l, I want
,\
to th~ hank and qat or mad9 arranq~rnsntsto nut th~ rno~~y
Ul" to '"'r.eserv"" that builcHnq and call~d the top man in tha
cornorat~ effic.ss of 'eh= C&O-B&O. That nan Houldr.' t qiv.,;
m~ the timB of day. Do VOll r~mq~}~rthat? I ran in~o
lunch.aon, wh=.t is the. nans of the shrin?-, l\llegh<.my'
Shrin~ Cor-manv.
?his lady came un, ~Irs. B"njamin Franklin,
N~'h? York rr~_m-.:;.~, and said what ar,q you qoinq to do 3.bcu't
.... ::.
5.t? ;+-....... , I \.:ould hav.., had
79
079 a gold min~ in ther~.I~. GOVERNOR LEE: Ths main purnose of th~
F~d~ral act, a~d the 106 heari,g provisions is to prevp.nt
hasty, ill-consirl;,r~d action with resn".ct to historic
buildinas. I must conclude that in this situation, th~
act has be~n observed quite scruoulou~ly, and eVery
conc~ivahl~ solution has b~en examin~d and found lacking.
I am afraid that I ,,,illqo alo~q with th" motion,
if eit'1"r of you qentlemen ~!ill make on'<l,to aoprov"" this
it~m on the aqenda. All ria~t. vfuo is making the m~tion?
r,OVBRNOR T1\I-1r,S:I will s~cond th" ~.mO\,.l.O!1.
T,T. G()VER~!ORLEE: 1\11 right. Hr. TawgS -- you
didn I t talk fast enough, Louie. Mr. 'fa,.,'ssssconds ~1r.
Goldst~in's rno~ion.llR. GOLDSTEIN: But I ~!a:1.tthe r~cord to shO\"
that ~ath~r sullivan and the Sulnician Fath~rs W6re n~ver
notified of the fact it was a historic landmark, is that
corrsct?F1\Tl!ERSULI,IV1\:!:That is riqht.
HR. GOLDSTF.Ill: Thev havs been the burd,-n of
maintainina and nrotectina this buildina all during this
controversial time. They have now run out of money.
l1nles" somethinq is done immediately ii:will j'i'.oparctize
I'\
080
80
th-=. historic church and the !-Iother S.,aton Hom~, is that
eorr""ct?
Fl\TEERSULLIVAN: That is true.
!1R. GOl,DSTEIn: That is my u:1derstac:ding. To
In"? they are the Most important buildinc;s on S,=aton Hill.
That is th~ r"ason, that is \ohy you have Seato:! Ilill. is
h';;.caus" of 1\other Seaton's home and that b~autiful cld
church. 'Ihev \,"?.re th'~re befor"'! John carroll, tha
great hishon, the father of his church in Am"'!rica
LT. GOVER:'lORLES: I \Oant it und"'rstood i.f a:!ybony
tries to lav 11 fi:!qer on the I~other S.<aton Hom'~or th.?.
chv"Cc:t of t~~~~:tn~l that th-a ~ntir~Board or publicI-Jorks ',oill qo out ac:0. th'l:'O~lits':Jlf under a hulldoz"r.
~1R. GaLDSTr.li'~: \'1~ should not do anything to
"rot'Sct th'~n. Unless th'?. bU:.ldinq is o?.rnolishs.d, you v:ill
have a ser<?vhall set i.t on fir'? and -ennanqer all "t:h~,oth?.r
ruildinqs ';h':.r~.
GOVER?'lORT!\\'1J'S: Yeur r:1o'c;.on, could it i.nclud~
,h'~ ..1.5aa'~nda.roC!. am"?_nc1'=.d1:0 sh:>':! th:=:it th~ sulpi.cian Fai::h+-rs
I am sorry
081
81
t~R. r.:OLDSTEIll: The.y are cpi:lg to d'?1'101ish,
lost t'1" contrac'.; a!1d sunsrvi.s'O it.
FATHERSVLLIVA,l: Y'as, s5x.
m~. GaLDSTEI:!: Tho:;City of Ilal timor'" wi 11 pay
th'=.n for th~ n-=,moli.t~on, nlus th<; $400, 1'I00-sol'1,,-.:>d'1.
HR. TAI'1l!FY: That is. cOl.-r;;ct:.
rm. GOLDS'l'EIl!: It ~,ill boa th~.ir total
rssnonsib~.U.ty. Ir. othsr Hords, you. buy th'? land, you pay
for the dsmoli t5.on o.XD?ns~Snlus the. lann cost.
HR. TAI'T11I'Y:plus the n-=.q::t:.'lten 5450,000, yes,
si.r.
J.T. GOVI'ffirORLI'P.: It has Dsen duly mov=n and
sscondsd that It~n 28-A b~ aDProved, and without obj~c'.:ion,
it is so ornsred.
I1R. TAI-TNEY:Thank you vsrv much.
W8 took so' much of your tim=.
LT. GOVERNORLEE: w~ took most of it
ours~lves ~n th~ intermission.
HR. Tl\l-711EY: I ,.:ant to <express 10v'8 and
affection for'th? state On~n Snac? Program, for
Natural R••sourc")f\. l'1s.hav~ coll?cto.d for r?cr-aation
and nark projects over 55 million thus far, and th=
department that administer?d it dess.rv~s a oat on th~
bac}:, and Fath~rsullivan savs ~od tll~~s yo~ all r~a] OQoct.
082
82
HR. GOLDSTEIN: Th,mk you.
LT. GOVERNORLEE: l~ho is th-e riqhtful own-ar
of thes~ valuabl~ docun~~~~?
FATHERSULLIVAll: Thank you VE.ry much for your
un(l~rstandi!'lq . I apnr':'!ciabe it v-nrv much.
\
(
II
LT. GOVF.P.!'IORLEE: I hav." on~ other apn-;;arance
not~d h",re, on naqe 29-A, 1'lr. Ba~ks for th~ D~lm'l.rva Pow';.r
COJ1lna~y.
1m. BI\NKS: r'lr. Govsrnor, I would lik", to yi -,;ld
if I could to I.lr. Hobb!", I-'ho is vice presid'~nt of nO'.lmarva
Pow'-r, sam~ sllh:iect.
LT. GOVERnORLEE: Fin.e. Do you \'lant to identify
your!"~lf fully for ths r-::cord.
IlR. HOBBS: I ,m J. E. Hobhs. vic.z nresid,,-:lt,
D;,lmarva PO\'!'2.rand Liaht Comnr.lnyof Marvland. \'1~. ar" here
toda~! r?.qu~st.':_naan. '93.~sn~:\tfrom th~ Board of Puhl:i.c \"lorks
for a tra~smis~io:l li~~ across th~ edq~ of th~ nrono~~d
Tuckaho"!. sta':<.> Park.
l1~hav~ a rath~r uniau~ situatio~h~r~ inthat th~Tuckaho"! Stat.,.. ParJ~ is anDroxinat~ly a half-mile
,.r:.d~~y f.i'l'~rrli.l-es lcnq iT! a ncrth-~outh dir~ction.
Delmarva has a Drcrl~m of sunnorti'1.q its cu~tomers in tha
area of Nvo. 1Iil1 s \"';.5t\,'ilrd and \'.'9 are nronosinq a
83
083 transmission line from Denton to WyeMills which runs in
. an east-\o"~st dir-ect5.on and find conflict "d th the Tuckahoe
stat,,- Park.
We h"lv~ heen I"orki,nq I"ith various ~l'?m"ntR of
th.e D~n'.lrtl'1c;nt of !!a1:ural Rssources since 1970 to try to
resolv~ these conflicts. Part of th~ nroblem has ba.~n
that ~arly in the qam'?, th~ desiqn of the Tuckahoe state
Park ,,'as nractically unknol''!l. It ",as a conc<!.TJtbut.
He didn' t knol" ",hat I"as qoinq to hanne:'l, and
t~ere have h'?en Quite a d'?lav on that score.
LT. ~()V;::RNORLEE~ '!'~"?."ha.,,~he"2n l:"ath~r
fluid,
l1R. HOImS: I !'l~'?d not refr'2.sh your mind en that
subject.
W",hav'? in ,,'orkinq I"ith tly"'. Denartm'i!nt of Natural
Rssources explorqd a :'lumber of alternatives, Ther~
'.lre no other oood choic~s. l'le ,,'ould not lib" to b€ in
th."'-nark, You ,",auld not 15.k." to hav" US in the nark,
but the choices that I"'"'.hav"., for examnle, 1'lOrkinq
frOM sou~hto north, if W~ ~~nt sou~hof th~ To~~~of
Hill "l'orouqh a':ld nu'"'.?n ."..'1:'1'0:, and th,,-y are south of the
nar):, ,,'e ",auld cross some v'~ry had marshlands,
I',
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84
l~~ \oJould hav<?-to cross the river 0:1 high towgrs,
and \oJould add ,"!uit", a bit of ,,"xnense, and miloaaq'" to the
ling. If \--e.\""'TItnarallel to the railroad, b"t".",,'an D-anton
and Qu~~nstoym, it would tak~ us dir~ctly throuqh th~
c8nt-er of both Hillsborouqh and OU'-i:~nAnne.
\'1e think this is a hiqhly und",sirabl-e routs. The
rout'S that \".'Shavoanronos'Sd is just north of Rout", 404,
part of it narall€ls th-.>.oth~r -- t\'10 railroads int .•rssct
at Hillsborough but tns first gno feet of it parall .•ls
the railroad and then br~aks a\oJayin a northeast~rly
Th~ roui:.~ th3t w€ hav.s; worked OU~ has re~n
I.!ork'i>dout ; ointl V with the DenartM",nt of Natural R.,;sourcE.S,
th" parl:s n"lonl"l. v'?ry fra~l:l v ~'e ~'ant:-e.dto (J'~tthrough
th~r'! as au5.c1:ly ;md as strai.ght as nossibls. Th-,;v hav,,:
r~rru""st<»dth'lt "'<»nut cor:1"",rs in it so that ~,'? <10 not:
cr~ats a tunnel sffsct.and \-IS hav~ agr~sd to this.
The other aH:-e.rnativ'~ 5.5 to qO completely north
of the park, ",hich would add about six miles to th~ lin<»,
taY-", un 40 percent more land. It ~ould boaa t~rrific
( \'Jast~ of natural r~sources i!l t-errns of nol'Ss, ",ire,
.nsulator, I'lhat h~v~ you and ~'ould ~Iran the park
In So.ptemher they found that
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and hack un th~ other.
Hs think this :!os a very poor altsrnativs. l'is do
havs hy means of l'?-tterthe concurrence of the D.partment
of Natural Resources that they find this nlan acc-'.ptahle.
This Board referred it to the Deoartm~nt of Stat~ Planninq.
We have a letter from them.
the plan was accsntahle.
He ask your acquiescence noV! that this orocBdur .•.
be allowed to ~ referred to tho. D~nartm~nt of Interior,
D~~artrn~n~of Outdoor R~creation for th~ir concurr~nc~,
It is. our
undsrstandino that in qoinq to the Buraau of Outdoor
Rscr->.a':::'.on,that \'.'e\.•~.ll have to substitute somsthinq of
valu~ of the eaS~Mo.nt used.
H. are nrenarsd to do that, eith~r in dollars
or in alt~r~atsla~d.
HR. GOLDSTEIn: That is one of the quastions.
'f!O\',' ""id'9 ;~sth:ts riqht of \olav, nurnbe.r on-:.1?
11R. HOBBS: 'l'otalrioht of ,,"ayis 150 f=",t.
HR. GOLDSTEIIl: 150 fest.
MR. HORBS: Onlv 62 feet of that will ba cleared
comnlo.taly. Tho. othsr will h"-'selectiv ..~ly trill1l'l"lQso that
(
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86
that would he tall '?nough tc fall onto the line. I have
a sketch of that.
MR. GOLDSTEIn: On"!minut-e nov'. 150 f",,,,t wide,
ri.ght of "ay. You ar"i! going to clear how much?
LT. GOVERNORLEE: 52.
~'.R. HOEBS: ~layb? you \.!ould li}:e to h'lv•• this.
MR. GOLDSTEIN: ~2 f.et, riaht: 62 fe~~ will
b~ clear"d.
1m. HOBBS: r;2 feet v'ill b<? c lear~d of .•.v•..rything
do\o!nto ~h'? around 15.'1e, and allo,~~d to naturally rE.Re'Sd
itself .
MR. GOLDSTEiN: }~w 10'10 is the right of way?
MR. HOBBS: I hav"! 270Ci f""t.MR. GOLDSTrI~: 270Ci feet?
1m. HODBS: Yes. It is almost exactly a half-mile
~lR. r,OLDSTEI~<: Hhat type of struc':uro. will b'?
nut ut:> th~r~?j.1R. HOBBS: H-fram~ structur.;;s, t~..lO nolE.S, \']it~\
a si!lqls cross-arm. Th~r'? ~r~ s~v-=ral al t.,:;rnati v'~s h-e:r~.
Th'? proposal that \.'? have mad~ \,'ould bz \...i th v.'Ood001"s
of a. gr.;en Ci'."'''. Currently we are huildina a lin, south
of Sali!"hurv. l'l~ are gsttinq start .•.d this sumn;;r t l"'•••.xt
r-.r
oR787
SUMm~r.
,'Is I'lill build it of concret-a noles. Th.i.s is an
al t~rnati v", night fit this nrohl'~M !'I2't"'i."
i;O nay fo't" th"l riqh-t of 1'"iW?
tIR. FOBBS: H", hav"? had it annraissd and w"
h~v~ an ~nnraisal of $4700.
~.m. PHIPPS: J.l0. He. h3.v'? got to ast J.ik"" land,
will accspt lik~ la~d for it unl~ss they l~t us acc~nt
HR. HORBS, That is right.
!1R. GOLDSTEIN: HOI']much land is ir.volv«d?
r.m. !'OBBS, 'l.33 acr<:~.
~1R. GOI,DSTED1:
to nay $4700 for -that land?
9.33 acr'?s. You aroe. only.goi.nq
1.1R. IIOBBS: 1'J.'l ar<! il.ski!1Q onlv for an ",as~.ment.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: I knol" you ask for an -eas"'..nIsnt.
•..In othsr words, right now you hav~
ha.autiful timh'Zr qrO\~i!1q th~rso. You qs': a timb-=.r crop
i
I,
088
88
HR. HOBBS: This is not timhsr.
1m. r,or,DSTEP1: Is it cl'i;ar land?
HR. HOBBS: No, it is hardwoods.
IlR. GOLDSTEIN: 'l'hatis timb-er in my couni::ry.
I:1 oth-ar ,-]ords, to you, a utility man, no tr.e-as rn.;.;:!!
anything. Cut th~m all do~~.
I!R. POBBS: Ahsolut",.ly not.
I.m. GOLDSTEIN: You talk just lik~ the. t",,;!;t
of.the util~ty n~ool~.
HR. !!OP.BS, 1-1~hav~ ~;ork~c1,d th th-s Danari:m-,ont
of Natural R"3sourc~.s. Th~y find this proposal is
I!R. PHIPPS, :10. All \v,;;. '.Irs askinq for in to b",
ahl~ to qo to th~ Fedsr3.1 Government and ask them for
annrovC\l to nut t!l'S riuht of pav through th", nark •.....tth
the silsement, that the F",d~ral Governmeni:: would tell us
lik~ land to b~ add~dto th~ nark. Th~s~d~t~il~will b~
r-enorted hack to the Board aft'>r woe qat concurr<?nC6 of th ~
Federal Govsrnms'1t. He havE. to concur h~r~ first rdf or.,
it qo-es t.o DOR. ~.r~ar,q asking for th-.a. concurr~~c~ of th'~
P.oard 50 1'7" na\' qO to BORand rsnort th", full d",taiJ."
089
89
HR. GOLDSTEIN: I nev~r h-=ard th-e d-etails. You
talked araut it vest",rdav. I had th",s'? qu~stions written
dOvmh",r"!. This r.lr. l!ohhs says if you don 't us.", th",
stilt'? riGht of Hav for the nark vou have to qO build
a six-mils line through rnarsh'?s.
1m. HOBBS: No. the six mi l."s Imuld be ov.;.r
farm and ,,,oodl;:~d '?ncirclinq the nark.
LT. GOVEffilORLEE: Going around the north end?
1m. HOBBS: Yes, the six-mile route. The other
route ,.s th'? r.tarshv aroea to th'? south and reauir'C'!-s crossing
4[)4.
~.'!L r.rn.ns,!, 8III : I~ ot'1"r I.;or<15, bv qoin,?, throu,?,h
th~ stat-a land yon ar~ savi.~q mon"~y,you ar-a savi:lg tim~,
~R. HORBS: That is absolutely corr'?ct.
?1R. r,OLDS?EI:l: Certainly.
I.;ith utili t5.'?s for a hell of a lonq tim"?. I knov how
to get tal:c.m in T)ublic as v'ell as ;.n privat4). I v.'ant to
JT\ay::'~ MY obs~rvation t to knoH' ,.~h3.t,.,..a ar-e doing and out it
5~nth~ r~cord.
l1R. HOBBS: I \.;ould aqr"?'? with vou that this
090
90
/1R. ("'..oLDSTEII'!:Th'a state will accomrnodilt'"' you
hy l~ttinq vou go through stat~ narklano.
IlR. HOBBS: Just as any oth"r nroo~rty o"''nsr.
I,m. GOLDSTEIn: H? ar-e trust~-=s for all of th'~
l"eonl~ of th'1 State of I-larvland, diff€.rent than d,"ali~q
with ~~rchandise. They make the decision. We ar€. trust~es
for t!'ousanos of n~opl,". lL"1borncitiz.;!ns even.
HR. HOBDS: Th~ sho~ occasionally is on th~
other foot. He r,,"c<;ntly de'3oed h'o nieces of la:ld to the
Stat? Roads Commission thilt vie O\,'!l for th", accommodation
of Stat.,.Roads.
~.U~.GOLDSTr:rn: I aw glad to hear th'lt. You
LT. r,OVEmlORLEE: llr. Hobbs, hO\~ clo<;.,; to the
riqht of way of ~o~ does this come?
1m. Ilorms: Ilay I tak? a look at this?
LT. GOVERNORLBF.: Yes.
I-m. HOBBS: It is out of sight.
LT. GOVErnlORLEE: That pr~tty well ans~srs
ny C!usstio!1./.lR. HOBBS: Part of th? nronosal is to nrovich:
CO!1s'";ructio:1 tha.t \'li.ll h~ scr-e-en.~d from 404 . I don' t: hav'~
.: .'-
09191
is not on it.
LT. GOVr.R~ORLEE: That is an old on".
MR. r.nLDSTEI!J: n~xt. ons, do you construct: th'S
1in~s or 1e~ th~rn out to a subco~tr~ctor?
I-lR. ITOBBS: This ~.'ou1d defini t~ly he ~ contractor.
lIP.. GOLDSTEIN: I:1 oth;:r "crds, ,~ho is a.oi!lg
to sUI'"Srvise it?
~'P.. HORBS: Our "eon1oe>do. ~le have a cO~1struction
man on th~ job.
/lP.. GOLDSTEIN: \'1hat quarante~ do you hav~. you
",ill comply <lith the things you ar"" giving us herE?
1m. HOBBS: l'7",11, in the first n1ac", ••..•" must:.
C/O hsfore th~ "'~ry1and Pub15.c S'~rvice COfmnission .
HR. GOLDSTEIH: . I understand that.
l.fR. HOBBS: Th",r'? ar'" 3("l-some aq",nci~s that
~.'~must notify i'l:1d every on= of thsm has his requir-;,m''':1ts
i'l!ld I~e do, we have soil ",rosion control, ~'e have zoning,
all of th~se neon1e g~t in the act and we definitely do
have to fo110l'.' "lxact1y ,..''tat they, ~.'hat conditions they
I~R. PHIPPS: He have to come back.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: I understand that.
092
92
~m.GOLDSTEIN: I had SOMe sad exnerienc<?
in on? utility cost, when I was in Alaska, th~y tooK the
bulldozer and tulldoz~d everything. Th~y h~d to comnly
'<li.th rC!strict:tons too. That '",las, do,.':) i.n south~rl1 r"'iaryland,
not on the Eastern Shore.
l-iR. I!O!3nS: I am not sneaking for south",rn
~hryla:1d .
1m. GOLDSTEIN: I f they do that to rn~ God J,nO\~s
what th-ay do to the ordinary taxo3.ysr. Th?y are naving
Th~y had to corne hACk and fix ..•..1. ~. I just want
to hs sure that v~ qet everythinq in the record, what you
ar;: go:c:-,q to do vlh",n you qO through this p3.rk. That is
3.11 He ars trying to do. Tha"lJ: vou, sir.
LT. (;OVERllORLEI:: O1:ay. boss. llow y:m hav'S
go': it in the record and have yOU got a Ii ttl? rnot5.on for me?
HR. GOJ,DSTEHl: I am not making any motion on
this. I can t~ll you th~t.
LT. GOVERNORLEE: Ars you pr~p3.r~d to give me
a motion to annrov~ this O~~?
GOVERNORTA\'IES: On th'e.'hasis of Hr. Phip,",s'
~xnlanation of this, '\'16ar'2 not a!1proving, ar-e ",7<=!, the
right of vlay ut1til he comes back to us, is tha t right?
y
f
093
93
Gov~rnm~nt that H~ t~ntatively annrov" the transfi;r of th"
land. They \vill have to aqr'?"!, to th" now'"r to -- to
give us additional land in place of the land th~y ar~
taking and then the contract documents would hav8- to come
hack to th." Board to be annrov-ed.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: I']hy car: 0 t ',IOU g'P.t a prior
apnrov31 h~for~ W~ annrov~ it?
IlR. PHIPPS: It ~vould s.,em r'o!asonable thi!"
should ly~ th.=. cass, but the Fsd'2.ral Gov~rnm",nt ~Jill not
act untll t~1S s'l:at~acts. I don' t k;1.oW~..hy hut tlH Y
Look ho\v much ~"or.k V?1J. ~'3ve tothrour,''J, all th" n'in ~r ,",or}:. Supnos." th",y say no to you.
MR. PI'IPPS: That!~ all lost.
i'!R. ~OLD~TEln: Th3.-':is all lost. Do you think
~\''-:'' ~'ould gi.v" vou th~ nrior annroval 3.;1.dyou' '.!ould ac::
accordinalv? I ~h:.nk it should hi-.:~h€. ot.h~r Hay arour..d.
I.m. PEIPPS, I do too. 1'1" Snent a qrs'it amount
of rno~~v. from th~m, y-et thsyict~t~ no15.cy. Sam", as hanpsnsd in Calv<>.rt Cliffs. 1'/" had
~o act on it, do take lin.5 first and 90 back to th~m.
1m. GOLDSTEIN, I knol" of all the troubl", you had.
LT. r;OVEJU:OR LI;F., I I-'ould j us~ ac; 1 ~av€ __
094
94
(;OVER:10RTJ\NES: O!~th" basis of that, I think
\~s ought to go along I-dth it.
MR. GOLDSTEIN: All riqht.
(;OVER;lORTJ\\'1P.S: I so mov~.
'''R. (;OLDS'C.'EIN:Seconc1;;d.
LT. (;O\lEPJlORLEE: Duly mov~d and s~cond<"d, Its1\
29-1\, without obj~ction 50 order~d.
!m. GOLDSTEIN: \1ith th" undsrstanding th~y
hav.;>.to com~ hack \<lith €vsrythinq sst forth, with th~
approval of the Bur-oau of Outdoor Recr"ation and the oth~r
agsnci~s of \'lashinqton and the stat'! ag<mcies. that thsy
Fill cOl'1nlv \dth this l.i-:::tl<::qranh.
HR. PHIPPS: Y,"s, sir.
!lR. GOLDSTEIN: Do you hav., a cony of that:
di'lgraM?
LT. GOVERNORLEE: You can hav-a that on'!'..
lm. (;OLDSTEIll: 'l'har.k you, sir.
DR. Bl\R~lES: Ther"1 is one more o",r50nal
ann~ar<mc~. Ilr. Colbert < G"'.neral F.m",rq~:1cyrund It,,"'l 5-A,
r~quest from ths s-acretary of Statg, Division of State
Documsnts to cr=!iit'3 a nosition caused by Senate Bill
165 requirinq that ii11 r-equlations that \,-ara issu~d by
- .•...
095
95
GOVER!lORTAI1ES: Is this the hand-d€li v",rsd on~?
DR. BARnES: Yes.
HR. COLBERT: Good aft-e.rnoo::, Governor a:1d oth?r
msmbsrs of th~ Board.
LT. GOVF.R~l()RLEE: Do you V:2.::tto qo through
th<.l usual. identification process?
tlR. COLBERT: Fine. My n3.ms is Robert Colbert.
I am th= A~~inistrator of the Division of State Docum~nts,
ar.d sinc,,: th~ Divi.sion is a ne\~ divisi.on, I would U.ke to
t<!ll you a l.ittl-o hi.t ar-out ",hat W<.lare doi.nq.
Our nrimarv Hork is to nut out blo nubL'.cations.
may not --
.LT. r:OVF.!UrORLEf.: Rohert, I do::' t T:1,.anto
intsrrunt you in full stride, but are vou tqllinq m~ that
you ar~ the occupant of th5..s I)osi tion -cha t ~le ar-s now
in the procqss of sstar-lishing?
MR. COLBERT: I am in occupancy of that
~os~tion,y~s, ~ir.
LT. GOVERl!ORLEE: I r",cen tl y ,.!rots a V€ ry s-crong
not", to th". n",alth D~partl'lent on tllis subject. You are in
line for another one or the Secretary of Stat~ is. This
busi.ne!',:, of fillinq ions first and th"n cominq in h"r~
to cr~a~~ thsm has absolut~lvaot to ~~on.
0%
96
DR. BAR:-mS: I!~ hilS been goi:1q to ,.'ork under
another position fU!1ction, I th.!..:1K.
I.m. COLBERT: I am not sure. I ,.,as aoovint-ed
I be1.!..~v~on August 19.
~lR. nn:BY: I r.1::.qhtadd tv that, 11r. Cv1hert
is currently s~rvinq in a tsmnorarv canacity und~r ths
S~cr~tary of Stat~'s Office, and filling th~ nositic:1,
31thou']h it i.s :lOt an '?stahU.sh"d nORitio:1, of cours~. --
LT. GOVERNORI.E!':: }T.~is 50r.le•..hat mon, 1--.ga1
than tho.. !'<!a1th Dsn'lrtr.1snt job.
MR. BIXBY: His position is legal.
I,
1m. COLBERT: Since our ,',ork is 1'\'31'" to i:h.~
st~...:~, I \,'ould 15.k.";;ust to uass dOvT.1 boi.:h sid~s for
anyon~ ",he is interesto..d ths 1.\ary1a:1dR'?qist'3r, which is
dsscriho..d in the statute as th~ only official sourer- of
informat.i.o:1 for such thin::rs as all pronos~d ag'?ncies'
rulss and regulations, '?r.1~rgsncy ru12s or adooted rul~s.
Tho..Register publish~S also all th~
F.xo?cutivo..Orders, all th"!! notices of committ",<; m.:<stings
of th~ G~';1~ral Ass"?.mblv and ths:1 \-l.a ca.n at a:1Y tiIn"'~b~
giv€n i\ddi.t5.onal mat",rials to T)ub1i.sh by the i\F.RLCommitt-=.e
of th", r,''?;;l<:?:rall\ss''?:r.1hlv. Th." statut<,. d~scribss this as
0~7
97
th~ only official sourc~ of information and says that it
is th~ only valid and enforc'?abl •• text. Th"r~for<;, this
v'ory. has to h,= don's ~"ith a high c1;;:qr«&of accuracy ar.d
",5.th qr~at C2X"., h~caus=- :'.f I,'", sl10uld -err in the nrintinq
of this material, th-=-"3rror h".comes law, until a:1 am'"ndm-;mt
nrOC~S5 corr~cts it, so our ~rnnhas~sis on accuracy, complete
accurac'l if 1-'''. can a5.1'lfor thil.t.
Th". lav! also d".scribes this as a t".mnorary
sunnlsr.tsn'c to the Cod". of 1-1aryland n"crulation.s and this
is the Cod'S of ;:aryland R~qulations. This is a mu1i;:i-volum-s
I"ork I,!hich 1-'''. are also r".quired to ~dit and publish. This
is _r-Ol" in about "dallt volum-ss. and grov.-inq lik'? all rul".s
The ",ork of th'? D:'.vision is lara".ly ".d1t:orial.
t'1~~1~~dfor this a skil1~d staff, no'i: only of n~opl~ v.'ho
ar'! canahl'? of snott5_nq flal"s -in gramrn1lr and Enqlish but
"r~ also n'S~d n~onle ,\'ho are s",~nsitive to th~ l-eqal
implications of the r".qulations that they are reading.
I-]s have, He must as a nar': of our job enforc'S the
style set forth by ths Governor's Cod", Division COlTU:lission,
and so H". ar". dealing with the lanauage of rules and
so this in SUf1U11ar'lj.s very tim'3-co:1suminq and vsry "x'lctinq
098
98
~.rork.
\'l~ n~~d a staff of six TJ<'.onl~.l1e have not
o~lyt~e nr~paration of these agency rules and r~gulations
in nrint3.hle form hut ~.realso must do proofraad5.!1q and
any oth<>.r~tlr.lberof oi:.h-arclsrical duti~s. H':lrun
3. subscrin't.ion sBrv5.c~ Hhich must b~ maintain'2:d. r:~no,",
have about lsnn suhscrih~rs to the Narvland R~qist,",rand
th3.t ntlr.lheris also qrowing daily.
Finallv, we will also run a subscription
service to this mu1ti-volum'? s'S.ries,and all of th.,;s""
dut5.<'.sar~ ""xtr'?r:telyt5.ms-c0:1suminq and do r"'-'llliri'a
car~.fully choss!"':., \.7:;.11-.2duc~t~::!ds't.?..ff, so for th?t:
reason I would ask that th~ Board anorove the re~u~st
that H€ hav"" hero? for s!.x oositions.
I \o'ouldhe q1ac1 '~O anS\~'?rany que.stio!\s vou may
LT. GOVEmlOR LEE: I have got a coun18.
NR. COLBERT: SurBlv.
I,T. GOVER!IOR LEE: Of the six hm., many are
already filled bv n~onl~?
DR. BARHES: THO.
MR. COLBERT: ThEre are people on loan
II frol'lth" ~'Scre';;arvof Sta -::'''.I s Off ic e, Gov'Sr::1or.
099 DR. BARNES:
and a K~lly Girl.
99
I thi:1k th'2r,,- ar~ jus~ t~..o po,!.opls,
!-IR. COLnERT: !-7", r.~lioed hi<ilVily on K~lly to
provid~ us ~ith servic~s such ~s nrDofr~adi~a, haqic
cl~rical s~rvics.LT. GOVER!!ORLEI:: !'.s for riCiht !101'"th"" TE' s
ar~ you a!1d or:.'~oth~r?
1m. COLEr-RT: H'~ and tl,'O oth:rs.
LT. r.nVEffilOR r,FE: Hh.i.ch two?
1m. COLBERT: J3.V, you May want to h'''-lo IO'S
I {:h:.nk "chat is th~ n'9:rSOrl bill'e.d as ass5.s-::ar.-c,
0:1 hoard.
l:R .. r.r;':BY:
:1? .. cnLB~RT: It ~~ th~ administra~iv~t~~rrl..
~IR. r.OLDSTEI:-): Ar-1 th.::ss full-tine jobs?
..,.,I ~,. BIXBY:
,,third ar:d 'thq fif~h.
nR. GOLDSTEr.]: !-'r. Ccltsrt, ar~ th,>,s.,
full-t:.!"'~jo!'s? Is your joh full-tin~?
0100. 100
I.:n. (:I)LDSTP.IH: HOI'"ahout your assistan'c couns"'>l?
MR. COLBERT: No, sir. Th~y ar9 all full-timd
jobs, n"lonl", ",ho ar8 nailv i!1volv~d in th" nrsn3.ration of
th",s"," rul~s and rsoul.'ltio:1.s for nrinti.nq. 'l:'ho.v ar" all
full-t.i.M'" jobs.
1-1R. C;()LDSTEI~I: In oth'",r words, th",v don 't
practico;> la~' a'1d com", in and I,'ork an hour a day?
NP.. COLBERT: Not at all.
LT. C;OVEP.NORLEE: Bob, ~..hsrq do you hang your
hat? Mh~rR does this all han"~:1.?
r.m. COLBEP.T: Ov?r in th'R Sha~.. Hous'?, third
LT. GOVER~IORLEE: Right. Tha",k you.
I\P.. C;OLDSTEIN: Let nl'? ask 0:1." mor-=.(lU~sd_o;1:
at th~ last r.1'S",ti:1.qof th'? Narvland-Ddla~.'a-cc;-[). C. Pr~ss.
th~y d:i.sc\1$s~d tl-)i.s !'1aryla:ld Rea5..st~r. t\Till this nO\'l
ston l'ulal advsrtis'?rs fror.1 aoino i:1. th", Daily R"co-cd
cr"'neral not~_c'? of chano"g in th", r"'qulat.:.ons?
r~R. COLBr:nT: Th'~ 1a,.., say::; wn€n .it an;:>aars in
the I!arula~d P",aister that is sufficient l~qal notic~. It
qO"S on to say that any oth~r additional ~otic", is not
I,
olOl
101
departms!'lts I Jy"li",ve ars cO!'ltinuinq to print it in
1m. GOLOS'1'EEI: '1'h"" r-eason I ask you that
have 1500 subscribers. There are 4,131,00n pSODlc in th~
stat~ as of i!ov"?.mb~r 1st, nlus or m5..nusa f.-=.w. This is
a vsry exnensiv'? puh1ication. I1ha1; dogs it cost a y'~ar
to suhscri.be to it?
MR. COLBERT: $25 a ya.~r, 26 issues.
1m. GOLDSTEIN: $~5 a ysar. You knoH th'.,
avera<T~ nsrson ",ho buvs the daily newspaper or mayb"
there 'lrs o!'llv lS!'lO conies of th!.s throughout th~ Stilte
of Haryla.nd \.,it}: 4,131, nOD p'SopJ.~?
riP.. COLBF.RT: Hhat \"4~ have dO:lS to hcn.:.. for
the. \,id">.st nossihle d:.stri.hut5.0!1 of that is c-?t in touch
\.,ith all nubli.c 15.hrariss, all COU':1tv gov,>rl1m",nts, all
bar librar5_'~5. N~ hav~ sent Qui: mail€rs to all T.1~:illlb~rs
of th~ bar. t.'l'9 hav~ trio:~c1 to al art. ~vBrybody to thi~
r'R. (;OLDSTEIH: Do you n~a~ to t~11 m~ i:h"'~.y
J.1.F.?~-r. ci':; ..r l:,'..v-:.~ .:: .','J
0102
102
try to find a r~qulation?
MR. COLBERT: I am hon~ful 'th,=y will b" abl~ to
go to th~ir local library and find it, yas, sir.
~m. PHIPPS: 1'1~hav"" adv<;,;ri:is'<.dads in the.
n<::",snan~r,our d~n~rtm::.n"tdo~s.
1m. GOLDSTEIH: Can you nictur~ a r"'gulatior.
r'":!~n.;c4:.inaoyst.grm~~, crahh'?rs, hov!many ~o to th: 15.hrary?
I'P.. PPIPPS: H? adv'2.rtis'o!- them all in th",
DR. B.'\.H:-ms: That I'rould s-cill b~ don?.
1m. PHIPPS: That is ricrht.
that Is""",. Th",V !'lhould hav? <1 notic.;, of things that
ar~ q0i~g to aff:=::c'c th?m.
HR. COLBERT: As I say, I b" li~ve til'" prac-cic«
is co~tinuinq still qiv~~q notic9S in n~wsnangrs. This
is si71nly '::ha official 'OlndJ ..~qal t-.;)(t of those rul,"s
and r'lgulations.
tlR. GOLDSTT:1N:Thank you, sir.
DR. El\.R:'JES: Gov~rnor, I discuss'!d this
y'!st?rchv vri'::h Gov<"rnor Ha!ldsl. It \-las on the shopping
list of the hand carries. H? I..'ond"r-.d if 11 cons.grvative
a~',.,ro'-,cl,I,'')ulii~'t h? to ~110l'r about four of thsss, and
,,
0103
103
l~t th",m live with \o!h!l.t-sver~xt.ra contract typing h-:.1p.th'?y
had to ha'l'? and qst som'.!'?xn",ril?nc'" u"yond this heqinni:1g
Y'sriod. I am hrinqi:1q th!l.t un because of (;ovsrnor 14a:1d.q1.
LT. (;(lVF:R':()R Lr:E: Did h?- ir.dic'.lt~ which f:lUr?
DR. Bl\R!lES: 1"1«11,obviously you :1~",dth",
~dministrator, you :1'.!eda q~n~ral couns~l, b~caus~ this
is legal ,eork so it \o!oulc1boil do','n to which of ";h..;.C:1~S
I:1 t3.l1d.nq to '1r. ni.xby, th", steno-cl-i,rk could
nossihly be defsrrsd, 3.nd if th~y hav'5 to use t-=rnocrary
th~ a.dni~istr::l..t.iv-e: assistFl!"1t. Th.3.t is one \-",ho i~ a,board.
It could ",it'v;,r be th.,; acministr3.tive ai.de, that is the
fourth on~ do~~,~~d th~ last on~ dow~. If you did that,
you \';ould h~ r-<::.rluci~.qthis hy .$7915, \<.~hich,.yould 1~ave.
th~ smergency fund r~0u~~t $45,166. That is differ~nt
than I discussed with th9 Gov~rnor but I didn't rsali~s
that th;, on-;; of the tHO TE's is the administrativ,,"
1m. BIXBY: Dr. Barn-es, if I m'iY i:;,';:,;.rrunt
for iust a Mom~nt, th~ adni~istra~iv~assista~tis a s~atg
104Office, so I Hould sugaest if it is th>l clease of the
Board to reduc-e thr.;nU!l1b~rto four, that th'""admini strati ve
assistant be on~ of those eliminated and ths steno-cl>lrk tHO a
the bottom be eliminab!d.
That \'laythe adrninistrativa assistant could be
co~tinuinq in a loan canacity until proner budgetary
action.
DR. BARNES: That would maka $35,127 if Iadd th~m correctly.
MR. BIXBYi I come un with 36,097. That is
cont3.nui:1g the 6500 for additional assistance.
LT. .--l.J.r~l:, : Unu'Sr \-lnat vou all ar~
.I
t3.1ki~q about th",.n,the Board I s motion Hould be to at'prOV9
th? nos:.tionc; !ios. 1, 2, " and 'i, in this qrouo, h'\ve Igot th~ riqht ones?
I.m. BIXBY: Yes.
LT. GOVER1:OR LEE: And th.,; No. 3 on'S, th-.;
ac1min.:.strativ'e asr::.stant, t'lould contln~~ on loan from
MR. BIXBY: That is riqht.
LT. GOVERNOR I,F.E: Is that servi:1q any uf'"ful
purnose doina it that way or are we just bei:1q difficultfor no qood r~aso~?
0105
10:;
~m.BIXBY: In reducing th6 nU!:lher of Pi!rmanent
nosi tions, of cours""" the Board ,,'auld he estil.blishinq _..:. the
Board '...ould allo,~ a l5.ttle bit of tim..; to evaluat", th~
op~ration as it oroc~gds. It is v.~ry younq, in on~ra.tio:l
actuallY onlv.for a littl~ OVEr 8 !:lonth.
I might mention that th~ oriainal hill setti~g
u!",th';o niv:'.sio:1 of stat:"'. DocUIn"'.ntscalled for a
LT. (;OVI:R?lOR LEE: That "laS. ch'l::1aed.
MR. BIXBY: T~at was chanqwd to th~ S£cr~tary
of StA~~'S nff.~c~.
./.~.:: ",:,\-.,. _. :.:1 \'d.t h Dr . Evsrs-c ....in's
SllOry? ?her~ is a man drafting l"'.gislation, a full-tim~
staff, "'or1':e<1hard v'Oar-round, ':1aturall~' J,muary,
110'"' ",'ou 1<1 you "lor}: Hi '-:h thos'2: p""on19?
I.m. COLBERT: I hav"? ,.'ork""d V9rv carefully
I think th",y
106
I\DLRCOl'\Jllittee, v"-ry clos~ly ,",'ith th,;m.
IIR. r,OLDS':i'F.IlJ:\'1hat is th.'\t ADLR?
I'R. COLBERT: l\dministra'd.v'"" Executiv.". and
L".qisla'dve r:'":v!.el'/C:>!'Un:_tt-;~'S.'rhat has a qro.at d"al to do
~ith t~= on~ration of this.
your offic~ and this office?
HR. COLBERT: !lons ,.,!-latsosv"r. Ther~ is a
comrnuni~v of int~rest in s~~ing tha~ certain things ar~
don~ nronsrlv hu~ oth~r than that, no.
HR. r.oLDSTF.Pl: And vou hav.; the ~xT)",r'c:i~.:
~~ your cff~c~,ju~t li~~ Dr. ~v~rst~inwill hav~ it?
LT. C;OVBmlOR LEE: ':i'h'i'.s;:;are .;;):scuti ve crd<"rs
and requlations that al"", b'=.inq nuhlish'~d.
belonq in ths Executi v~ D'~nartm~nt.
1m. C;OLDSTEI:l: No question about that.
th'~ bill first ~~<'!ntb,.
I,m. "OLDST1'1:1: I l-!ant to be sur-=. ther',., is
coor<1ina.;..:ion. I knC\.] W'=. ha',,,, :.TI our shoo. ~,~ hav,," to
writ~ manv admi~istrat~v~orn~r~, and they hav~ to ba
0107
",
1C'l7
corr~ct?IIR. COLBERT: Yes. l'r~ ~.'ork v'2.ry closely with
1m. r,OLDS'l'I::Il'l: Th~ l\~torn "'Y r,sl":;oral r"vi"'I-'s
our drafti'1Q of thos~ articles. In fact MOS'.:;of th"ID ar~
\,'ritto.n hy our Assistant l\ttor:1-=Y r,~nerals ~'ho hav,.
the leQal "x,.,".rtis~ so \~e COInDly",i th th"" law, comply
h'h'"n th'?y ar"! Dublish;od, if you don't, WF.. ar-s
suhj'?ct to b'?i~q rsvo.rsqd hv a court of law. I just
war.t to be sur.; P'S have th", Drop,,-r coordination. I
und~r~tand",h3.-:' has t:> h~.
LT. r,OVnmORLEF.: Th., originaJ v".rsion of
this hill h~d it diffsr".:1tlv.
HR. GOLDS'].'::!!l: I can u:1dsrsta:1d Hhy.
LT. GOVF:PJ!OR LEE: Som~ strang":;! idea th'~~
pickEd un i~ P~~~sylv~~ia.
r,OVEPJWRTl\l'rr;S: Doss this take th'3 olac" of
\1hat ~.'? havs h'S?:1 :1ormilllv doing?
DR. BAR:rr.s: Y~5.
GClVEP.::OR TAI'rES: In wri tir.q our rul "-5 ar.d
r-egulatio~s, hav3_nq th~m go .throuah the:. administt'a";:i v.~
0108
108
DR. B.7\WlES: Th~y \~ou1d still go through €.ach
do.partmsnt. Th,~ nrob1o.m, "!'lch denartmant had a'different
siz-e, diff"!r-e~t forM, so it was confusinq to the nub1ic.
This \'TaV the.y all com~ in th~ saMe siz€ a!1d un5.form
documgnt.
1.1R. (;OLDSTEIN: That is th;; next qu-astion. After
ws qo throuqh all ths nrocedur"! of qstt~ng ths uniform
r~qulat5_ons ,.;"r5.tt~!1by tha .1\ttorn.oev G~n'eral, assign6d to. our
offic~, it is nuh1ished, tho.n you compile it in this
/m. COLDERT: That is right.
1'11\ •.: .}...... , de you?
:.m. C()LBJ:RT: l'lh3.t \-'e do is that "'S of'i:~n, in
goi-,q '.:hrounh, \oN r'2ad v<:.ry carsfully th~ r~aulad_c:1s th:::.t arc
5ur'Y:'titt-e.d to us. V~ry fr';!qu",;:n"::ly, unfort.unat-=ly I \o.'~ fi~d
l~:1!]u-?q'S that is uncl'73.r to tts a~d ,....~ !.lust th:::1 q,d; hack !on
touch ~'it.h \.]hosvsr draftsd. thes,;, to se-<.exactly ".h3.t
/11<. GOLDSTEI!<: But r,ow if we h3.v~ -experts
lik~ in tho. Sales Tax and ~lcoholic Beveraqes, that tixpertise
is has,;d ovo.r 25 or 30 Yf'.ars dS3.linq \o.'ith the trad •.,
d~.aU_nq \d th ths n-?onl"J j.n the husi:1"ss. You may have
olr)~
109
laud'O, hut I1q has a th'?ory. His th ~ory may he al i".oq,,-ther
diff-?r'Ont from \~hat th~ nrac'::ical appr:)ach is to a
regulation.
HR. COLBERT: No. 1'1"-never ch,mq"'. th<? language
of th", 1,1\-.' \..'5_"thout the clos<?st consultation \~ith th~
d~n~rtM~~~that has cr~~t~dit.
HR. GOLDSTEIl1: I see.
l'!R. COLBERT: H~ \orould=:1' t. do th~t. 'N~do not
do that.HR. GOLDSTEIll: You '.:ouldn' t hav,; th", Harvard
s:.1'1'11v don'"\: qO in th",r'~ and chang"> th", lanquaqs of th"
r~9ulations that ar~ submittsd to us. It is always dons
i:1 co~sul tat=.on .
. HR. GOLDSTEIN: Aro. th~s", suhl'1itt",d to you
before nublish<?d?
l~R. COLnERT: Yes, that is riqht.
IIR. GOLDSTEIll: In oth€r \~ords, b'9for<; th-=y
ar~ ,..,uhlisho.c1 and hecome a r"'C1ul~t5_on they ar", submitted
~I
0110
II
110
HR. COLBERT: That is right. They at"i' ado)"lted
by the tim"! th~v get to us. The d~nartm"2:nt has tah,r.
its final action and is submittinq tham to us as
nronos"d r~qul.'ltio:1s t,'hich ths.y \d.sh pd.nts.d 5.n th.: l1aryland
Rsg5.ster.
LT. GOVERnORLEE: At \,hai:. noint do th"y acquir~
full leaal ~ffect?
MR. PHIPPS: Not until 45 days after this
.iR nuh15.sh-sd, ann in our cas~, \>1~ nut ths notic~ i~ the
local nSWSDBner. You notice. on naqe 128, this is a
hearinq on ons of these Nov~mber 16, 1974, which is a
HR. r,OLDSTEH1: I don"~ have that nage.
DR. BARneS: Ther~ ar:e tHO s'~ctions, t\<..o issuES.
HR. PHIPPS: Th..! nub15.c h'i>arinq \".£11 hi' h.-.ld,
and t"9 still ca,l rsve.t"SR or ch.'lnqe this r"e:qulation.
HR. COLBERT: That is right. Actually, it is
a ~O-davn~riod. Th~r~ is a fin-day waitinq n~riod; after
it h'ls anDsaredin the Reqi.ste.r for tha first tim,; th"an
the d9Dartnant must ~lait at least 60 days be for.; it
can be run aqain and adopted rsqulaticn. That 60 days
allows ther" to be a hearing, nuhlic co~m9nt, any
IIR. GOLDSTEIn: Dur:.'.1'l that tins you ca:1 re.vis.~l
0111
II
111
H~. COLB:r:R":': That :l.s riqht.
L'!'. t:;f)\7l'P1)0R LF:F.: That is a'?:1srallv ths sarns
as th9.P~dsral R~nist..;r. A qreat deBl of stuff co~eq
or I-Ihatsv-;,r. '.:hat n",.V<iraoes a:1V fartt,-:r.
I'R. COLBERT: P.xac'::ly.
LT. f:0Vf.R!!0P LEE: If a nronosal 5..:1h?r'2: is
subs~.nu'!~tlv suh;'?ct to a nuhlic hearina 3.nd then is
arne'1c1<>d,do'?.s t"e fi.n"!l versio:1 aet renr5.nt"!d in this
docurn<'::;'::1t?
;.m. COLBf.I''':': y .~.q •
LT. G()Vr.IU,0RLPF.: I thin~~ :.. is a v~ry qood
LT. r.rWF.R!lOR LES: l\r"", coni'?!'; of t'1s l'aryla::d
R~qist~rdistr!hut£d for fr~~ to ~tateaq~nci~~or do th~v
h~v~ to n~v?
'-'0 PHIPPS: Tl-j,,!var-:>.:-lot. 25 bucks n~r n-?rson.
r'~R. CnLBEHT: No, ths lat.' only T)rovi.d~d for
0112
112
llR. PHIPPS: Rtaht.
r,T. r,OVER!WR LEE: That iR l'<candalous.
m~.PHIPPS: H~ ar-e navina for them.
,'m. COLr.ERT: Th~ \~hol~ nrobl'"m th:r-=. vias \,:h=.r."
c]:) you st':).., cr!.v,i.ncril.pav th"" fr~,,< coni'es, sinc~ t,hi c; is
a co~tlv~nt~r~ri~~1th~r~ is ~o question ahout that.
I'P... f'OLDSTEIN: Do "ou nrint thi s u~d-=.r bi.d?
~m. COLBERT: Y",s.
~IR. r,OLDS':'EIN: \'lhat comnany is printing it nOl'I?
11"t. COLBERT: l\ comnar.v 1:'1ovl11ill'<ths L"gal
""11.. rOLDSTp.I;,l: iTohodv l~ :-!:3'.'rvlandca:1. t~rint this?
I ~v~r cam~ aboard.
'm. f'OLDSTF.IN: Vou only hav~ 0:1€: hidd-ar?
'Ill.. COLBFT1T: This v'as 0:1« hic1d~r ",i.thin th",
1m. r-0LDs'.rcrr: Bo\ol oft',m do you nut thi.s out 0:1
>lp. COr,PEP,T: T'!~ contract 1"rov'.c1"s for annual.
0113
1131m. r.()LDS'I'EH1: You hav'O to mail this to thsm
or no th'!.v COI'1<; do"'!} and nick it un?
ml. C()LDF:RT:
no t~~v co~~ and nick unor do you mq!J it to PhilHd~lnhia?
PR. C()LBr:RT: Actuallv h: i.s mailsd in 1'aryland.
Nno n1.YS ths: sal~~ tax on th~M?Do 'lOU 311 collsc~: a sal£s tax 0:1 f;h.~s" boo"s?
I'? f;nI,pr:R"':
'11'. r.OI.DSTr:I!-I: I ~M ao~~q to ch~c~ ~hat out.
I~ is m~'iob to col1~ctth~ ~alss tax.
You ca~ s~11 it ~o th~rorntrol1~rl5nffic~ a~d W~ ~~ll a~t a c~rtif!c~t~. Ifyou ~Kll {t to th~ aenaral nublie, 'lOU ast ths tax or
0114 ,d.c!: Ul' th'\t !;:lsn(' to offs"'': this mO::1"V. Okav.
114
LT. r,OV~RHORLEE: ?hat is what hRnn-ans ~Ih"n
DR. BAR'.1ES: Th~. s nrol ~ct srould )0-;; J.n nart
i.f '1.0': PDollv s<:lf-'lun'"lori:5.nq.
dOl'.~th<; cO~1:trihutio:1s to trv to 1"'3.]:"l it that "I~?
I'll.. r,OLDSTF.Hl: I ,./ould thi~k th", cl ",rk of ths
court, r,,!qist'?r of: ",ills. ?v'~rv aoency ,./ould "/<l.nt 3
con,,:'of this.
11R. COLP.pT<T:
Roh"rt, can vau conduct
1m. COLBF.R'r: I.lith difficultv, hut I think
LT. r,rWERNORLEI:: This cro,.d is h"!re onc,"
SO 'rOll ca71 al'H~vs com<a hack.
r~p... COLRr.RT: V-erv Good.I\
LT. r,OVFRllOP. VT:
""
(
0115.
115
~1R. "nr,nSTEIN: I MOV"" \0'" a.nnrov~ ;robs I, 2,
4 and 5, as s~t forth i~ th~ It~m GEE 5-~.
r.ovrRilOH Tl\I'1ES: I 5",conn th", motion.
I~T. r.OVER:!ORLEE: not5_on dul v ",ad~ and
s?cond~(i to cr'"at~ thos~ four jobs, and I..•i thout obj'~ction,
50 ord~r",d.
rlR. COLBERT: Thank vou.
l'P'. "OI,DSTEn!: You <lr<>.\o'''llcom~.
LT. GOVERl,ORLEE: Is that th'? '?nd of the
L'I'. (:C'VLRi:n?,r.r:r: Lau:Ls, do you \o.'C\nt to ~tart
1m.• GOLDSTFI~l: I think I.r" should start \.,:1.th
~~dV'~ aq~ndaand GO riaht on throuqh.LT. r.0VERNORLET:: In the first IP. it"rns --
'm. GOLDSTEIN: It'?m 8, nag'" 9, is th-s first
0"''" I had a 0\1"'.5<:io •.•on.
1,T. rDVEP}10R LEE: Paq'2: 9, okay. That is
~'oor'" 's Run. n",rr inq Run.
HR. GOLDSTEI~l:Is this th" full cost of this
0116
116
1m. GOLDSTEIN: Sir, 0:1 P3.q~ <1 of "!r. Heuh~ck' 5
aq".!'!da, Item ~10. 8, c;anj_tilrv f'lciliti"l', s".~'aq.;. 10.;1:1of
19(;7, Joh ~10. r.-2~0312, :t!'! (Tuot".«, n.,riod (13, BalU.:ror".
Ci.ty, rfoor'~'~ nn!1, II.c.;'crinq PU'"!, H~ ara q:tvi.nq $223,125
i'l0.dit.:i.o':'.al !'lon,.,!. Honln tl1is cover th"i'. cost of this
nroi""ct?
m~ chC2.Ct: that. Y~s. It t'.'ill, h-::~causE. ther'~ ar~ ~o cth~r
co~t t" 9.ct s ~o h~ h:.n.
HR. r.nLDSTEP!, Tha!'!J: "on, sj_r.
1:P.. (:F:R'rl~A71: Th~r.q \..r=r~ ~ar 1i€r contracts.
LT. r.nvE~IOR LEE: ~h". 228,000 r".nr~se:1ts
t~~.c;t'lto:' c; 12 1/2 n'?rc-.;,,,tsh'lx':.of th", inflationary
~scal~tio~of this thinq, riaht?t'R. GF.!'.T~'.l\N: R!frh.t.
13, ..,;;q'? 15.
1'1'.. r.FHTnl\Jl, Pardon me. I had bett~r corrsct
that. This is o~lv tho. ".sca1~tior. on the first contract.
Th.:;r":?ar-e. i:.FO mor~ contr~cts to l~;~hid O~ this.
1m. r;OLDS'lTP;, THO Mor". contracts.
r
':
0117
II
"
,(
"
117
in the cost.rlR. (;flLDSTFIN: Okay. The. ot~"?r O:l~ y'€' hav~
alre~dy taken un, Blair.';
T,T. (;flvr.ml(lR LFT: PaG"l l5?
"lL (;flLDSTBI!l: y~s ,our-lie school s. 1'1,~.did
th'3.t thi.s l'1orn~nq.
LT. GOVrRllOR Lr.r.: T'<is on" should actu.?lly"
_ h? \.,ithdt"a •..~ i., this fot'l'l 0".caUS'2. it h'l.S he~n d£alt I-lith!i
in grt::~t~rn~t3.il, is t~at corr"J.ct?,.
LT. (;flVFP;lflR LEE: 1-",. at'''? out of your 1"'.aqu"'-
1m. !'PlTP.FCJ~: 1\11 ri.aht.
LT. (;()vr.PN()!1. IoCr.: !\nv oth"t's in this first
1m. r,OLDSTBI": no. 'l'ha';o if' th~ only ';or.ing
:;nR. Bi'.PNES: Thi.s !.s a t'"?suH: of a sut'v':y
"11
:1,-
")<. LEIns: You shotildn I t with'dia~l.this.
I\
0118
118
DIl.. Bl\R:IES, It'!l'l 19.
'111.. GOLDSTF.I:!, 1-)", annroved t'1is this r.!or:1i:'la.
I
Ii H"!. ai'lve !in un(lat~d r~l'lort.U
DR. Bl\!l.Nr.S, This is a r~nort to t~l-e.Board.
1m.. GOLDS'!'F.I1I, That :.s '::h.• hier r'('.nort d.ght
her", Blair.
LT. r,O"ER:IOR LF.E, Y<2s.
'IP.. GOLDS';'Fnl, Po", talk~n about Ilo\~!irn Cou~ty.
DR. BARNES, Th~ oth~r it~m was simnlv askinq
-for th~ men-?'! to nay for this r'?Dort.
1m. LF.HIS, It r~ally omiss~on of ths
MP... ~Or.,DSr:J,lF.I~J: It hri!1Qs us un to datv.
th~rscoMmqnda~~on is cov~r'!d rv th? $80,noo.
T!". r:mmRiIOR LEE, This is a documsnt of
"-nornOlls villu'!.
LT. ~()VETU:()RI,F~: Co~i?.s should h-:! ~'.;.r.t to t~z
01111
11'1
Smithsonian.
L'!'. r,OVER'10RLEE: llay I h:1V~ a Motio:'} that
!t~m5 1 throuah 17 b~ annrov~d, th~n?
~IR. r.OI,DSTr.IH: I 50 mov?-.
r,OVFRWlR':'AHF.S: S<ocond th.; moti.o'1.
I,T. G0VEPlWn LEE: Pi thout obi Bction, so
You hsqin --
on that litt1q Patuxent on~?
1.'1'. r,OVrP.710R LF.F.: !'To. I l1'i ss'?d on'~.
LT. ~()VF.ml0R LEI':: You have '10 nroh1.~m on t'1a':.?
!1R. ~OLDSTr:I;-T: no.
LT. 00Vr,PJ!~RLEB: Th~n make th~ annroval
ext'?nd to !';>'.ms 1 t!lroua1)18.
Lon, do 'lOll '"tnv"? 3.~..V qu~st:tO:lS on th~ Or'-:~Sn~c~?
0120
.'""
120I think tl-tat I~r.Phinns has all th9 information.
TI-t~ first ong I think is on It-;;m 8-11 and 9-11.
HR. f'IlIPPS: Hhite Plains R2qiona1 Park.
1m r.()l,DS'1'r.rl: 8-11 and <I-A ar€ l"Thib" Plains
R-;,qio~'ll P;;.r1:, ':'h~s", ac1d:.t5.o':1a1 costs for tl-t'l.t qo1f
course and tho. annur.t'?':la~c<e:s,is tha-:: right?
1m. PEIP':'5: ~hat i" riqht .
"R. PHIPPS: Voss.
"1', r.OLDST!'I!1: '1'h", :1"X'C i'C.".m, l(.'-.1\, d13';; h'l.s
"1<, 1'1'11'1'5: 17-7\.
,1:'. COT,Ds,:"rl: 1(.-.1\ 11.::c1 17-.1\, ~'ithdril\"n.
1-'''.• PI'1PPS: And Ul-.7\, P=. hav',< a corr;.c';:~.o:-:.
:1)~,PI'IPPS: Yo.s, sir. r'ontqom".r.y Cou:J.ty,
" Proqram ()nQ:1. Sn.:;c'S accru:..s:.tio~s I 3.:1d ~'.e. ft?~l th~y should
"av(~. 'l nor.o. ra1a':1c"!.0. nroaran a'1o should q.iv"? us SOI'1<O'of
0121
121":; th~ strC3am vallqy~ and 10c3.1 narJ: acquisitio!1s rath-er thanji.1
hi<;rh-cos't nronsrtv.Iti."
",.LT. ('()VF:RHfm LI'F': If this is nar'c of th'dr
" wh!ch nroi~ct5 t~~y~ick OU~ to submit?,.'. IfR. Pl'IPPS: 1'1'~11, \"''lohav., aot th~ conc"",,,t, th",
:: On~."l Snac'a Proc('c3.m har; h~,m to buy 1C!nd for th~ USB of
th~ ar'Sa ilnd not t'oea11v dovmtov'n locations.
LT. GOVERnORLEE: This is in a COU'1ty i.h3t
has alr ••adv a v<!rv 'Z:laJ:,orat~ nark nroqram.
1m. PHIPPS: Tllo.y hav"! a v.orv aoon,on<o',
LT. r,OVEPJlORI.rm: Pav'S }-."",n sinc~ tho<. tVl~nti",5.
~ULPEIPPS: rrhat.:.s tru£.
LT. r.OVI'RllORLEI':
/r
J
J:s.~nqi.v5.nq tham a h~rd t.i.m~ on th.ts. This y-'a!; not do~~
I'R. PEIPPS, ~lo, sir.
LT. (:CWI'P:l()RLEE: Can't: v:e do this, Lou?
1m. r,OI,DSTEI~l: !'1'S h3d 'i m'~atinq yo.stsrday,
17-A, huvinq a qasolin~ station in ~akoma Park.
LT. r.(WrP:IOR Lr:E: Vo.s.
01?2
.1
122
:: 137,425, and it is $44,00n for an ahandoned aasolice.,:j
" station to mak~ a narY. out of it. Ho\o.' can you do that
.. \o'i th state rnon~v? If tlontqo!'1ery County Nants to do i.t'.I.
,.ri. th t'J.z:.r non"2\1, l.t t~'?Mdo ~ <- 'I'hat: ;.S il.:1i1handon;;d~.....cas st~tiO~1on t~~corn~r of ~~stmorQl~~dand Carroll.I hav'~ h"a'?:1 hy t~~r-3 nrlny tj.r.1~s.
LT. GOVEP.NOR LY.:E: !3ut und<'.r th. (')t"~n Snac'Z la'.,.
I,
.,r1ontqor:1-"?rv, 1.;.1:-::; -:.he othc~r counti~!;, is ~ntitl-e.d to a
c"rta~,.., imount of mon.ov. of coursil the.v hu" a lot i.:o.
add:.tion to Hhat com".s throuah this lat~, hut if th2-v
iust r~cord ~~ votina no, aaainst ; .I •.." no th~ r~cord ".~O~It
shot .• J. am votina to huv il.'1al:andon.~.d aasoli'1-;, 5':'1i:.io'1
$Inn,nnn to i.:_'1.r it doP'1 a'1d d:.a un th", til"!}:"',
LT. GOVEml0R Ll.B: That ~s th.;ir nrobl~m.
I am t~~~rust~~of t~~t~x~ay~rsl~on~v and I ca~'t
I can't sit ~?r-~
oLD
123':
I, in goon cO!1sci~!:c'" to do i.t.
" ,'lR. GOLDSTEI:l:
1"!lat i t~m ar'! YOU taH:i.nq about?
It'!m 17-A, ahar.don~d qaso1in~
1m. PHIPPS: 16 a:ld ]7-]\.
I'n.. GOLDSTFH1: A", ara'1don:d qasolir.-e s'::at:,o:l
i:l Takoma P"rl:, zon~d C-:'. CO"'lmsrcial.
LT. (:rWEP!1On. LF.E:
I"'.: don't hurt th'S.M at all. .If
.: ..-_0 .•.• , But
SunDOS"'. -?v,;>,rv countv C'lrn"'. i':l h",r'~ and houqht cOImn*-rcial
nron-erty.J.T. GnVfm:;OR LEE: It de.n€.nc.s O~ th:;.
-t:hat.
s!.1cua.l;:ion. vou "av'~ :.'c CO:lfj.~.~dto a fix'?<1 '1r'!.a,
lIontr;onsr" Com',ty has alMo<;t <\ on-soMs-cdd s"uar~ rn5.1"s
of 13.~d, ~'qt'",~ \.,~. com~alonq and P3.V this ~:ind of r'r:.c~
for a~ ~r~~do~~daasoli~~station. I can't sit in qood
;,"
, lL4
0124 ST'",~dano':h"'1: $lnr). niH) '::0 t-=.a1:5.t dO\'/TI,d5,q UP the. concr;!t"
"il and th-a tan}:~ to rnak.:;. it uc:;ahl-s .."11" LT'. r:OVr.R'IOR Lr.E: Th~y have. bouqht vast rsach'~s
of und~vqlon~d land in tho. unnqr nart of t~~ county. If
.' '.:.h'''Yhav'"- Urha"l rsn'~\'lal nroj oct a'ld have to nlc!: U",,
"
.call thslr 0\'''' shots, sines it is in ,,-ff"2et t'l.d.r O\,'!1
;,mon~y... It is no':; a~ ~.f ,.,~""'~'t'"':? qiving i:h.'~m SOM~
di.scr~t~~O":1arvtv,,":! aLar.'":.. 'fh':!y a~t rsal1y v-e.ry fussy about
th:i,'3.
MP.• ('OLDSTFH,: I K'10l<'th~y q,,:t nuffv about
to t~ar do,.m .. I votsd' aqa5.nst it. l'j.;> h",ld it up.
Peonls a1:~ still livina in tho. hom~s.
1.'1'. r.O\'F.P-'!OR I.E!':: You a1:S talki!1q about BlOCK69.
tha~ thsv cams h~rs for, tsar do~m th~ homss, buy
rss:i.o';:'1t!.al hOMs" 'Inn tsar thsm dOHn \.'h€n vou can' i: buy
a homs in l'O:1taomsrv COU:1tyand mev'" th~m eut.
in good con~ci~ncqvot~ f~r that.
I can't
\LT. r:()VFP.~I()R I.r.r.: I eTOalonq \"i th you on th3.t.
'.\R. C'OI,DSTr.nl: As 0'1.'" psrso:! or. the" BOilrd that
0125125
LT. COUF.P!10R LF:E: Do you "ant to may.",.a
litt1'? d-e3.1 Hith 1T1'?,hos'.':? L~t'g l'?t th'?m hay,," 1(,-]\,.
, and hold bac1~ 17-.7\, recaus"" I think that coml'1'?t'cia1 is!!
1.m. C'OLDs'rr.J:!!: l'~t'''. I!:; ~-90, I doC!'t l:no\-l"
" ~..7hat 10'" dC?;l~ity r~sic1'Snt:.al T:'l~a"lS 5.n your county .., LT. COVF~NOR LEE: It means gono f~~t to a lot.
'In. r.OLDPTF.IN: That 1"ou1d he hier" d,,:;]s i ty ,
fout' and a hal f hOM".Sto an acr". If ~.'? follo~1 this
40.
T'l':'Y didn't hI" 5.t. Th",' ma~ is still in hus:.n'?gs. It
uniforM nol~cv O~ th~~.~ ki:1d of t.hincrs.
LT. r;OVEPJ'!OR LFT:: Yes, hut thq (1ll~~tion.s~i.ll
it :.s our MO:;~V to 1T'ak~ lik£ St=lnta Claus \,'ith. I thin~
1...: i.s tl:.~.:tt' !"'!:>l1~Vrnvsslf. "ThA."Cis phat th:~lat.] calls for.
I am
~ot fam!li~r with th~ land va lUGS ot' th~ arsa of VODtqOrn~ry
0126
I
",.'
'.~:126
:' Coun':.y.LT. r.()Vr:RNOR LEE: I fri'lnl;ly don.' t und-,orsi:and
J"~i
~1R. r.OLDS'!'T'J:.l: 19-A, ~('5,onnan acr~, 2.156
acr'«s.
,i:;
ho~~ is arou~~~S2,nnnif t~~v C~~ find s~~aq~,isn'~
3,bout no"'?
~'T"I.. r.OLl)S":'FI'l: Ii: has
I ; ust Ci'l'" t h'ar'" in aood
,..
'0127
".,
"
"
on trtat.
127
1m. GP.IES: ninht I put. som,; inforM'lt5.on out
I aM B:'..ll G'Ci".s i'l.!1dI I,'ork witrt th.~ Park and
\,
Planning in silv~r Snrinq.
LT. r,(WFRrlOP.LET:: It:'..s hiqh tiM? YOU
1m. G()LDSTr:rl: 1 thouaht. you I,'''.ro. a ffi'iM1Y-o'r
of tho. fourth estat., the nress.
!lR. G!Ur.S: I miqht 0". b",tt",r off at th;.s n::>i:1t.
~R. GRIES: Bill Gries.
nfl .• r,OLDS",F.I11: EOI'.' do 'lOU !"p.-:11 it?
MR. GRIES: G, n, I, E, S. The narticular
K".!1dall. nn~ of tho. hon".s is used as a nurso.ry horns
to U.v"! 5.'1 tho. !"lorn".as nar';; of ths.:.r "m"lovm"'1.t
agr".".m".nt, I ou".ss, and th". ar".'! tha~ is includ~d
last -/;\-JO acr.;;"; availahl<; in 'Iontaom=.ry H;.lls ar9a, I,'hich
I••ould h". !:orth of Ssmi.:1arv Road, and south of th.", bs1t\o.'ay.
0128
,"
,:'.~'hich \oIq h1l.v? had flOM?, I shouldn't fl11.VSOMS, I.!S h11.v"had
, ~xt-e.nsi.vs. dsrna.;,.d for th-a nroneri:v from the ci ~iz-:;ns I
128
)associ11.tionfl in the ar~a. Th~ nroDos11.l Has a matter of
.nublic h-sar:.nn. N-= ar~ itls-t imnl ~m~n.t:.nqOU'l"' adon~sd
LT. r,()\!lCHWmLF.I':: Is ":1,i5 th"! I"hol", nark?
rm, r,P.IES: This is ths ~!hol"! nar)'.. It is
jUflt t\-,o acr?s, 7\'; en"! til'1~ it "!<'l,Sids'1tifi,sd "l.S a U, S.
ncst office sit~ for Mo~tqOm~ry Hills station, which was
later, ~lans for ~hat ~~rq ].at~rdeferrsd and th~y ar~
qoi:la to f,<!, nutt:'-",a the nost offic? at 11.'1oth"-=10catio'1.
NR. GlUES: r"r. Ern"!st 1:'~nda11 1'!aS forl'1-=x
~~r~c~orfor th~ school for naa~s~n Washinqton.
sc'1001 o.,.,"ratol'. 1'", has th'? Alsx11.nd•.r Day School 0:1
t1~iv".!r=:ity R:}ulp..va-cd, TUfllhl~ I~n on ~-eorqia ]\v~nus 1
""
!,
after thsv t~11.r th ••. hous'? do',Tn?
I'R. r,lUES: !1r. 1\"'.~dalJ. I thin): is lettinq
. ! 0129
.,
129
"r~'?ln~.~q'J.er out in this. II"! is Clot having il. nrohlB1!l wH:h
..t~at :'..~th~ r~locatio!1.
T,T. C:O\lEP'!l()P' LEE: Hr. C'ri",s, sinc-;: I hav.;
.i'leld J assume th::;t th~ Pi'lrl: and Pla:1~inq Commiss3.on has a
subst'l.n'd.al numh'?r of narkla'1d acquish:ions ~hat qualify,
'\-Iould qUillifv und'?r this. l']hy do th",y ahmys insi.st on
s'?ndino th~s~ h~qh-Dr~C~ n'?r acr~ or p~r souar'? foot
''?vsn i tsms ov'>.r her," to iln:10Y/.!r. c:oldst'?in \-Ih'?'1you k'1.oW
!1R. ~Plrs: L-;:,tT:1~S~.~ if I can oSx!"Jlain :..t for
a!ld also ths bonds ,-'hich W'2.,..culd 5,,11, bas,,<l on \:h.,.:
. s-;.rvi':'\CT t~~p~onl~ n~Ar hor.l'~1 so th~y y'ouldn I t h::lv-e. to qO
. u!"county .to th«. r,:qional n?rl:s a'1.d stream vall-ay Darks un
that ;.s a ~..al): to nark, and they sa:.d that W~. should
.sxnand our acqui~ition.
(•
'.,
130
;: snoClsor<ad throuClh l'ous3.nCl il:1d Urban D~v<alonm'2.nt. ~lh"n th,<"
council urCl"d us to €.xnand our nrOCTr.'1m,",s had to b~ vo.ry
hO:1est ,.,ith th~m a!1G say if ",s~xnand our local parY.: acquisitio;1S
it will U5~ uo Mor~ fu~d9 tha~ ~.r~ havs ~vail~))l~to co~tinua
our curr~~trat~of acnuisition, so if ws would ~ut our
In 1')<';9 th", cou!,cil said we ,",ould li!:e to hav.s
acquir<;c1 )w P3.r!: '1nd Plarminq Commissio.n. NOHthe reason
a nroqram ha'J"d on Cl~n~ril.l tax"'.s, th<~y Han':"d to nrovirh,
.. sP'?nd thilt mo"'.~" 0'1' nar!:s to S'2rv'? o..v«rvnod", not jus';:
If tho"-,, \1Ould buv r~.a.'_onal narkla:1cl and s'.:rsan
vall."y lilnd -sv<>rybody ~.-ould h" nay3.n'1 a fair shar,;' f~)r
If "'-<1 \ ..'ould
hav~ aCC1ui't"'?.c1 all tb~~.~la;\ds \>lith Innd tax~s asr..erai.:'2d
0131
,..,"
::
shar~ aeeordi~qly.
It s~~m~d to h~ tha h~st nlae~ to hr~ll.k
tho;; local nll.rk~, s.;,rvs th"! u~ineornori'l'i::~d areas of.,! Mo~tnonery Cou~tv ann thos~ Il.r£ll.s in th~ mstronolitan
131
at
(
r~qion~].di~~rict,thos~ ryro1~cts fund~d with tax dollars,;
that ",'~ra q",,,,,rat'?d from the n"lr1: 'ca>: that th.! Commi.!3sio~
has and hav," th.? no,,-loeal nar1:s I.,hieh s'?rv'? all ar",as
of th'! cou"t', ;.ncludinq r.ai thsrshU1:q 'inn Rockvill s
nayi~q their fair sharA. throuqh th~ q~r.eral countv tax'?s.
)->acl~to th'? RO'l.rdof Puhl:.e 1'lor]~sI.,i.th nrojsets tha'c I.J."fund,
h-ae'l.us." it "'as Nlrt of th ..."county s.>:"eutiv,",' s hudqet
')olicy th;:t Parks il.'"!dPlanni'1q Comm~.s~icnh'l.s th~ "taff
Th~~is vhy th~ funds that are brouaht i~~o
Comrn.i~sio':1~ .: ."--~
132
If. ,..''? coulil na::':1tai!l our ?ad: nroaram
I,T. r.nvrPJ10R!,rE: Th" unshot of :.'c is thsn:'
".'
".~ithou.t; i.:;on~rn~.z~~.q.I.~h~rlo,.,l":"\COU7'ltV nar}:s or th-~i:i:1; uncou~".:.yn~r}:s.'J •.'
0132
It is h~~na houaht bv th~ countv
LT. r.O\'r.~.'l()R LEE: You all ar'! s':.uck \-,ith this funny
s':uff .
~.I,
!,T. r.OVEP~lOR LET:: Are. yOIl huy:'.nq any s1.:1.">,;lm
~':R. ~P.ISS: Th~ county l.S dcinq that..
a qood t.3 million n v~ar sn'?nt hv th~ countv on str~~~
valh~y nar~:s.H~ sn'nr1 ahout ~3 mi.llion a v,>ar on
local n~rks, so ,.,~ ars trvinq to, l:..J:'" I sav, havs th~
( '~.'l.s:."t' to handl", for !''irk and Pla:1:1ir.q Commission to do
';
0133
-,133
,"
q~ar Un and a~t additional s~aff.
r,T. -(:Ovp,mlOR LEE: Nhat vould haoo-an if the
Board of Puhlie Norks just adamantly r~fusgs to ho~or
th,"",s aeou! 55.tions? Do",s 5..t 1'1",,11:1 J.1ontqomsrv County a~ts
don?- out of its shar? of Onen ~naeq mon?"?
rIP.. PHIPPS: Th.,;.yl'l3..l1 los" all aV"lilabl,; mO:1'lY.
rIP.. GIUE~: I don 't k;,oi'l hOI': I-Ja wi 11 handl ~ it.
LT. (:OVERNOR LEI': Us'~ it on \-!hat?
rm. PHIPPS: All ava:'.lahl'9 shar~ of Op~n Spacs
oro;sc1:.
in th= nroqram I-'hieh I-!'=Imuld 1:'J:9 to a""t into the count". If
I am sur"! that Dr. Hanson and other
rnsmhsrs of the Park and Planninq Commission ar~ goi~g
to I"ani: to say som"!th5.na about it, I gU"lSS as a staff
nerson I don't J.:nOl-,',-,hat altarn'l.t5.v"!s thqy !lave, but as a
staff p~rSO:lI am ~xn~c".:~dto nr~n~r~ the annlicati.ons and.-
fil,s thgm and tr" to hr:'.:1<Tth'= 1'1011=" hack to th~ county.
ol3~
"
134
thsss nr:,c~5 !.:.hantlr. (;oldst",in or anybody ",ls''L
"
I think that th€ COU!ltv councilor
th-e COU"1tv ~.x'Scut:.V~ is not in lov-e. with th-e.m-a.ith~r.
1'1",Hant to orcv5.(h ths narks t':1at a'c';; rS'1U!'~st-=-dal1d are
':.;obliqat.i.o~s . Th~ one particular prop~rty hsre, Takoma
"
Urb~~ Par}:, j.s riqh't ~djaC~:lt to th-a ~10:1tqoM~ryC:)u~ty
I \"ouldn I t 1:no\" 1,0\" manY hu;,dr",ds of old'"r
to us for ~~~ last four or f!vs v~ars.
LT. ~f)vr:Rl1nR I,Er: Th~t:..s this qas si:ai.:ion O:1~.
CRIES, T~at is.th~nas statio~. TeJ:cma
I undst'stand ':h"lt \'!as ,In auto deal '.':rshin, not so much
a c.~.~lqrc;:-tin. I au-=.ss you C3.~ I t di vorc-:!. thq -::,...10
activi.ti<05. If you hav,,- on,,- you hav" th'" othsr usually.
I m.l.qht add that th-: nron"rt\' is curr"r.tly
u':1d'~rcO'1tract il!1d ooi:1o to ssttl'o!Inent at the low""st
LT. ~()Vr.R~1()RLEE: As u!1ati:.rativ~~as thesa
(,
0135'.
.,
135
county cou:1c5.l ann th? county ")xqcutiv"? and th." Park
and Plannina r.ommi~sion, all th~?~, and if it is nart
of a' sum of mo'1",,'!t,hat"ontgom"l-ry County is -antH:l?d to
\')",11, ,"hat ~.S ,!our r" actiQ:1
th!'i+; .i.t <1o:.S'1 't onlv '\r>nly to rlo!ltaon",rv county hut. j.t
(I
LT. (;OVfR':0R I,!::r.:: I ,.'ould Jy" i'1clinsd to th:.~k
::
mo~€.v.
furth'?r stud'!. Aft-ar i"urthsr s.t-udy,:hat r'~ally
n.ann~n<!d?1.'11.PHIPPS: \-le I-'-,:,rs going to psrso"lilllv
" , 136
,1
013(. 'i Hanson, th~ Park and PIann~.l1q Conmi~r.ion ahout th". ,..,roj'lcts
and thsn I am sur~ h", ,,!ould r"qu';;,st th",y hoe bac!: 01'. tho;,.
c;ovr.p.~rop. TAI'IF.S: Por furth~r stud'!?
1m. PHIPPS: Y~s, sir,
c~rtain ".:h".,!\.!ould hoe. hac!: on thoa n~xt ags:1da?
tfR. PI!IPPS: y~~, sir.
r,ovr.m!OR TAI'IRS: This is ",hat I h<ld j.n m5.:1d,
If tha".: is \"hat th,:'1 ar':? I"ithdral''TI for, and th.a Ds!,artn~:1t
of Natural R=.sonrc?s \"j,sh",s to 00 hack a:1d talk to ':."'~
locn..l HontC!oM<",,;ry Countv n~on19 I think \"'~ should qj_v.~ th~rn
~hat onnor~u~itvto do it.
LT. r;OVr:R!'lOR LEE: !Juster ~a'JS ha ):nm'15 tl]",1'
ago s",'1."ra1 "ro; '?ct~ that th"'. BO"lrd turnsd dm-.,:, a~d ',"'"
went ah9ad a~d nurcha~£d r~qard]~ss of using our ~unds.
I.I'
0137
il""I',~
, "m. PHIPPS:
137
I b~li~ve it would, V~5.
That doesn't solve anything.
HR. PHIPPS: Ira.
1m.. r,RIF:S: I aM sur"! ~h~ countv ~s going to
put into our cani tal iMnrov-::.r:l'~nt nrogram, our a~f'';;:lcy
has thq r"sno~sih5.l:i.ty of :lmnlsmentinq th'l.t nroqram, so --
\ole aros r",ady to ao ah",ad I,dth ~.t regardless of Hhat funds
HQq",t but H"?o cortai.nly ",auld annr"cii'li:~ g9td,nq as much
sunnart as we can,
r,ovr:ml()R TI\1'WS: U'1d'~r thas.,; c:.rcumstar.c'.'s
llR. PHIPPS: That :',5 d,qht. Thsv ,"'auld US'l,
MO~~V for oth~rar~~s j.~ the coun~v?"P-. PHIPPS: y~s, s5.r.
I'R. ('RIPS: T".", thi:1Cj I "li",r.t to noint out is
0138
.,
'.138
:;and thi_ncrs lib~ t'13.t t.o surmort our nroqral'l, and it is not
.qoi.ncr to frs~. u,., anv l'lon~y for us so th~t. \-1,,!- can' o,!.Xn",nc1
":!3.:1V ~.r. thO) country, I qu~ss. 1-10=. ar',. r,,"cOqniz'2c1for having
GrWT:T(;:rlRTAI-ms: Ar';: t!1'2S~ options to buy?
no. Th9S~ ar~ l~nd nurchas~
contracts. ~'l~h~v,~comm:i.ct'?d ourh":ll V~s to buy th~
I ~!oul(l J.iy.'" i.n ord"r to boa fair to both
onnortu~i. o':.:y to q:> hack f~r a!1o'::h~rmo;:th.
d"'lay it a month. It •..'on'l; i\ff=.ct the. nric-.c;, ~JJ.ll it?
HR. GRIF.S: Ho.'i
~m. PllIPPS:
It will qo
0; \.l!'.n.q.r co~tract.
1m. GHIES:
or n~xt, })ut d~lavinq i~ i~n't qO~~q to chanq~ our
'.
!' 13B-A
0138 at''''. qoi~a to ao ar'~il.d "d.th it and H: ,,"'on't chanq.,. our
'.
.:
i~t"'.r"'.~t in annlvinafur Mon"'.y.
LT. r,0VEmlOR LEE: I'1 otl]',~r \"orcl", it "':>'1' 'c
,'.
GOVERl~ORTAHES: Gov".rnor, that i~ a r",al Pt'ohl'~m.
I thouaht if ";:hqv \~,,<nt hacl: to Dr. Hai1!'on hs nay com" hack
LT. GOVERnORLEE: \~hich Ol'l',S '?rs vou t"lJd."1a
abou'::?
"LT. GOVr::m:ORLEE: That ;.s 19-1\.
LT. GOVER"!Or.LEE: 17-A 3.l'ld 19-1\.
1m. GRIES: 17-.'\::.!, T.'l.J:ol'l<J. ~~otcr pron'"r::y :nxt 'co
lTill!'; OtFCl ,,)i'.ry..
!1R. GRIES: Riaht, brick and frame.
LT. GOVER'lORLEE: This 5.5 aoina to h", a '.:\.Jo to
O~~ v~::'?:, I c?~ tc..ll you. Th~ rnot5.o~ is qo:..nc;to h~ to
0139
";1.,;,
i d"!fe.r 17-1\ and 11l-7\, 3.<: th'3.tcorr'O!ct?
139
(;()VF.R:J()RT.7\Nr.S: \'.7~11, l'7ith th'? und"!rst3.ndinq
that ,"'0. hav"", ;'l.n onportuni ty to h'"ar Phinos out aqain. I',,>.-" ,
.,
may h3VS a chana"'-of hsart. Po. is a fl"!xih1e ir.dividual.
G0VF.P.'lOR T.7\l'iF.S: L.~t's hrina 3. t D3Ck.
LT. GOVEm~0R Lr.F.: 1\11 riqht. Th~ motion then
is to d~f",r 17-7\ and 19-1\.
qO~:~qto l~t th~ s~~iorcitizs~sh~v~ a littl~nl~c~ to
r,f)VFP.clOR'l'l\HES: L"t I s l~t th<?m come bac!': to
r~R. nr:UBr:CK:
140
llR. ,nnDLF",O!l: No r-esolution on that.
to f5.!l(1out \.'hich onqs ar" d",f""rr~d. Ar~ vou qoinr; to.-
LT. r,OVE!'!1OR LT:E: I kno\o1 • I am just trying
d.qfr~r ~vst'v-::h:..na th3.t ~3S PontqoITl~.rv Coun"cv I 5 ~am~ on it?
Is th~~th~ nol~cv?lR-A is annrov~d.
/f
1m. PHIPPS: H",r." is a nevi IG-A, littl-e li<sS
MO;1°.y •
LT. C:(Wr.m:OR LET:: T'/hat is this?
~~. P!'IPPS: IS-A.
'~R. c:nLDS7FI?!: IG-A, 17-1\ and 11)-1\, you \'Iil.nt
to ch,~ct-:out. 1'1"" annrov'~d 18-1\.
IIR. PEIPPS: 13-7\ i!" a 1;.'.:tl<; h;.ss nsr acr.s,
11.""" ~~~tsad of 15.
1m. PHIPPS: Y"':5 f sir.
LT. c:nVrmiOR LET:: ;'7l1'.l.tt.'as th-e orob1 sm \~ith
l~-A? Thnt i~ ~om~thir.q--
"R. C:RIRS: That is a City of Rockvills nrojsct..
LT. r.OVRR:lOR LP.E: Is tf\at had too?
I!R. m,IES: I don' t l:nm~ th~. oron1sm.
F'R. ESI{EN: I!"1 our 't""?V:t<?H th-=..re nr~ some riqht
I
0141
141
t:ly.sn into consid<oration ,..•hsn th-ey apprais",:d th~ place.
T~sr-e is ~ q~S tr~nsmission riqht of way. w~ did
r~qu~",tth3t on"?. B~for~ \<'s rsqusst.;o this be d.,;f:,rrsd.
!1~X": t5.M~.
LT. r,OVPRNORLEE: Hi-A is d~fsrr'~r1 hy
Cr.~::'tT"l':3.~v:>'t:i.:;,q i~ th~ ~~rra.:tiv-~ a:-•.d 1~-.2\ :.5 rl~f'~Lr-.:;d'hy
a "Ct'.'O to o~O;vct~, \o1ith th'a Chairma~ vot:.nq ).:1 th'2
!1'£.~q~-=::..v~A.~d J.~-;\ h?!~ ~ suhq.!..::t'tu-::io!1. Is 18-.1\ ol:ay?
J.1R. PHIPPS: Y'2.S, s~.r.
HP... r;(H~DST~I7r: ~l-tat ~_s okay.
nn.. r.OLDSTEI:l: You too!: un 28-A, you took
car~ of th~t, dur~~~ t11~h~ari~q. 29-~, you took carg
olA2.
142
1m. 1nnnLFTO!l: That has b<et'.n aODrov~d.
1m. (:nLDSTEIN: Discu~sion, s,"-", nots.
l.T. r,nVE!u.:nR LEI:: lmc1 yl~. h.a.vo. a motion to
nR. C:OLDSTEnl: So mov~d.
LT. C:(Wr.~•.j()R LEE: So mDved a~d s~cond~da~d
G=orq~, has that
I
"
that c1arif:'.,-,.d?
I
0143
143
1,'R. LF:HrS: Th5_s i.s for a l~as~ for th'!
nsnartn'?~t of. ~co""\omic at:d Conmu:"l.':.'ty D~V::.lonn.~~t to nov~
~nnrov~d a nurc~as~ of.
GOVF.RJ!OP.TAI'iFS: For th~ insuranc" fund?
a :>art of the.'= J'u.:'.ldi'1Cl '~o Ecoc:omic and Commu'1i.ty
PR. G()LDST~I'): I ",ant:~d
DR. DJ\R:!BS : '1'1'15.5 i~ aboli.tiO:l of 3. job.
1m. r.()LDs",:r.r),: R;i.aht.
\ I pa!1t-2.dto co;nnlir.1~nt
you. Thi~ 5.!) th-:? first t~_rn~. I scJ.~dh~r'l:?, co~(!ra-r.ulatj.o~s.
T~at is th->. t""!ason I ",ant".n to call vour att"!ntion to it.
144
I".: is v~rv r'lr",lv that you <;.v-2.r<;-=-= this hanp'.m.
; .•.... ....•
DR. Rl\R.'!ES : I nidn 't th~.nk vou ,.."ouln objosct to
I.'n. r.nLDS',TE1: I can't obi.;:ct.
\,-'1":'.:1 I lool-:"?r1 ov~r ~~~ ot~~r niqh~, conaratulations.
f
I ,.'ant'=.d that :h th.;, r'>-cot"d.
Th-= n-=xt an-= I havc. is GI-17, naq~ 17. Is
th~s a full-tinq ioh, S20,O~O a vc.ar?
LT. ~()Vr.R"!()R L;,~: Nhat di.r.:c".:i.o:'1ar.q 'ch-e.s~
n~.n~x.
he.el: •
It aiv~s us a ~rohls~ too.
DR. B?\R?!SS: t.,,~ "'~.lltrv .:~ as":
I~n. r;OLDSTEI!!:
0145
145
$ 2 n , "'11') ;!. y"'ar?
DR. nARil~S: ')'h~~' sav it is fu11-t:.m".
f;()V!'Rl')()R TAI'1F.S: I'Ih'lt itS<M at"e you 0:1?
"P" GOLDS':'!'I)): (;<>,n;;.ra1It~m 17-A, S"cur:'.i:i",-s
Conmi~sto~~r,rRisina th~ ~al~rvfrom $13,350 to ~15,00n.
GnV?R:'10P. Tl\1'1ES: Is 'that th'" on~ Ca1Ln"ay is
cO':',S:lo'=.r.ir:a i:aJ::.'1Q?
IIR. ,,()LDSTr.rl: I do~ I t r:no,",'.
()~-::::..•...' .
Hh.o is nav3nq for th;q~
"th~ ~ornt:r::a.-Y;:wo:l for Puhl:~c Dro2.Gc=.st:.r:g, H~:.ch r3.:.s'E.S
i.~:.s fn~d~ fro!'l c.ubscr.:tn~.:.o~s .t...:o do this H.::lll Str'.;".~-c
\,
146
(
claim as l-."inq O!1S of "th" h,;s~ of 2.11 of th'!M, ~duc;>.';:ional
this kind of ". ,:ipl",':ahl~ for tIle,,", f:.rst for th,,-
nroQucsr to CJO ov'Or ~,d r>3.ks ';:h~",lans ar.~1t'1":1 1'l.1',,,:r
for t1:>-o: '?-!1ti t'''' st'lff to C;? ovqr to no th~ 3.c'::ual filn:.nq
a~d o~..:!1~r\.~ork i.!1vol ,,~d in nrcrluc:...nq it.
:-Ut. c:nl.DSTEI!~: Ths.y hav-e to qo to Londo:1 'co
nroouc,q j.t?
DR. 13l1.Rm;S: Sir?
II
~ill rroduc~a rnonqy oroar~~h~r~ of siMilar natu~~.
:.s th e. h~'3'; I could q~t ou': of Dr. 1';riCJhts~f"ld"-r.
~IR. r,OLDS"'r.r::
Brit~5hIslss ~n 1~71, thrss v~~rs ~qo, a~d I ~:ondt,r~cl
0147
nroqrar1R .
147
DR. R7\RNr.S: I do:J.' t thin!: th~v ,..•ill do that.
I,m. GOLDSTEIn: T~'?n th<>.y will hav~ som,: oth"r
I \o''.l"'"\t',,-d to C'l.ll '::h~t to your att",ntion. Okay.
DR. B!\Rm~S: Th~.s 5.s ,,"xchanq'2 of faciU.ti..,s. Th<;
BBC Hill CO;;)." ov?r h"'r~ to (10 on", call<>.d th'~mo:-:~y
L'C'. (;fWr.R:lOP. LEt; :I\r", th.';.rB .any oth"'r,;
in -=;h~~aroun?
~!R.n0I,DSTEltJ: That ta]~es care of thos~
DO vou h<l.v-;;. a:1V i.d",'l ,,,hat th~ ':otal ccst
qoi","\a to l's? Do vau h'lv"'. anv doll'lr fiaur-a?
DF.. Bl\!"'.:lFS: I hav"". a l",tt~ r frOM Dr.
'm. GOT,DSTI:Dl: Total co"t?
DR. Rl\R~,rF.S: !Jo, s=_r. That. is ths pr'~l:i..minary
trins, a~d l~,nnn -- total co"t ~s S14,nsn. Th~ las~
qroun would he 11,300.
lIP'. r,O!'I:1STEPT: I" that add ",d to th.~ 14?
DR. BAR:1ES: iJo, s-'..r, tot.al of 14,osn.
HR. r:OI,DSTLlii: Tot:a 1 cost. Okay.
,-
0148
148
DR. DAR!lr.S: That is not s-(;at-;l funds.
und.".r stat~ nol:tc'~? ?!'.''!r~ ars six jobs u:::cl'2.rGI-24.
DR. BARNES: Thsv 3.r~ 10 n"rc~nt qsn'?:ral,
C)() n.~rcsnt F'~~(l~.t"al,a~d t~~ ~o~-nol::.c~ tvn~ of iobs, of
LT. Gm7r.R~!ORLeE: But this ::.8 u~ch'.r LL'\l\?
LT. (:O'.'T:P."J()P' Lr.r.: LE.II.Aqr-3r.t, ':1ct s11b1 -?oct
to or is :..t?
DR. BAInES: I 3.qr"".~.•
LT. G()VI:R.!!OP.r.r.r.: Th", '.:h::.u(Js rU:1 for ';hr,,=
".'~rs a:::clall of a sudd'''-:1th'=y turn un in our huclg,=.t.
!lR. G(lLDSTF:I~l:You ma\' hav<,'.t,,-s 13.st nil.raqra.-,h.
HR. GOLDSTr:r:r: R:'.aht.
LT. r,()VPRN()R T,EE: 0'11y i'c do,;s S-SSMto "."or!:
014')
,.
,it.i., 149
~!R. r.nLDf.'l'EIJI: Ths nsxt it"m I h'l.n \',';lS 0'1.
;!.,I,
nag~ 27, r.r -:~7. H'l.S this all
" DR. P,;\P",T:S:
~~R. ~()LDS'T'F:li1: You Cr:i"l li.v"li \1it~ "t~:tS, can I-t
I ~cu1d iust 1ika to r~fsr
":0 tIE C~":iv~~r53.-i:.i.o:'1\.1~ lJ"!d v.1~.th Dr. Statlsr, ,~,::hat.' ~..':hs :,...:;):\- bu-:lr-r s.t-?r.. :.t'::.i15, \.,hicn no ':0 5unDort ':hs ruc1aat,
Th=.r ~.
.'
0150I1R. IJ.'\R'Jr:S: I thi.n1: l1r. P~don~ .is th~
lS0
hudg-et ana1""t.1m. (:nLDSTr.nl:
un ..tn nal timor ~.
Th5.s .'.5
1.m. r:nLDSTr.Il1:
r;tWER'!OR TASI'!ES:
197(', nsy.~~sar.
.t'R. ~0LDS~BI~1: Y"'"1,S, s:.r.
0":"":=. UD.
*.1 T-!. P rD01~r.:
d
01 r; 1
151
It i~ th~
DR. IV\m'ES : In oth<f!r \"ot'd~, S-,::cr.~tary Huqh~s has
Ii: 10o!:s
':'h~tis all
'i
152
0152 I wond~r if vou would ~ort this
I'R. (:oI.nS'I'F.I11: I thought ~h~y had do~~ that.
~;urs.
1m. (:OLDSTEr!:
G-T has
Y~s.
L~. (:OVF.P:;()RV'E: I~~m h-T, naq~ 8-T.
~~!'-..PISHT:R:
.1-h.>'-' ..•.
r- -? ,
0153
153
LT. r,OVP'I1!lOR I,m,:: 0'1 narl"~ 8 -T?
7hat is n~q~ R-T.n()VE!?~1(H~Tl\.~.Tr:S: J!O\ ..' ,~hou-:. 7-T, or 5-t;'1?
'm r,OLf)ST~In: I':":~1Tl !)-T, I 11~n a qUS-st:.o;:J ., .•• on
:>:ci.:'lcinl.:::of t~i.s, \.rhy do \V'-~ h~v':::, to ~o out of thH stat'S
i'l"d h:.r-;:. <>xn<;r':~ ':'0 t",11 ths. City of 13a1timor-"- what
lT~r"iR anothsr o~s riqht h~rs, wh£r~ Ba1timor~
Is t:-:~tc1o~~by th-.:. fish
\.
I,
LT. r,(WrP"!f)~ LEE: Ths old f3.sh l'12.rk~i:.
0155
155
'co do th~T..:.
Y:..s. Ws ar~ coqnizan~ of ~h~ n~sd
Y-ss.
\
0~:~V• THO to 0:-1';' •
.~,'~.,
qroun?
lSG
'11>.• FlfJlFR:
\.;ork for r:.cht of ~'''::l'V~C(ft1~.s~.'c~.c~for :,o'!'A, '7:h3.i: th~_s
LT. r;OVEIl.;:OR LEE:
C'I'1 vou.!f:"?,'_.' .
••
,....
157th~m ths ~xnlan~t~onto th~t.
Th~ ~xt~~tto which t~~acciasntsnn. Bl\P.n:r.S:•ft1:1d~ fot" .:J-
~1R. c;nLDsTFI~T: It ~s a qo~d nroqr~M.TiT'. r-n'lER::nR LPP: I \,'.i 11 huv ~.':..
O}:av.
"R. r-OJ,DS'l'EEI: That ~1~SIt~M R-T on n~q~ 10-T,
• .,...'" T' ••.•..• r'" •, " • A" 'J .• ~ •
• r ....r- .....•","'\F-..• ~ •••..•• .;. • • -... . c-
Th~ssar~ all ~h~s~boards?/
•I~ "th;;.rs a:lY chj.-:,.c't.i.o'1. to this?
DR. B:\R::r. s :
r;I-B.
th.:..;.
VI'. f:nVl'r;J()p Ll'F:
Ol:av.
.0 I
Ii
1m. LENIS:
-,
~(
015"15~
I had O~~ on ~~-2,on n3g,~ 8G.
/
I:,,-v ..~
You hav~ 340 ~~u~r.fq~t D?r car.
This ~.shasically ~stti~aun a
• '.'~
oHn
HI)
1m. LE!'1IS: If vou ao :.n'::o a bsavy urr--a'1 arsa
you hav"- ':':0 m:ovi.d'3 th5.s O'1-Q,,-oJ;parJ:i!lo.
~U.'.(','"•.l_'n."."'..-, ';'.l,~.'v "''IV "3.; ""' .... "h'l' v-h' 5 '5 "ha'- veu,~ - ._,.., v _ •••••• <':l. • 1 - ':'. 1 •••••..•. ~ .'., •••• J
~;.~."'" , 3nd 0:1 D2.0-:. If),
,I
75 norc''''..;..full-'::.'.M'; f3.cul':.',r, 75 n~rc';:1':. s':.aff, 75
r~rc~~tof ~~~ T. ~., 2 n~rc£~tvi~itcrs.
161
(1m. LEFTS: You e.t'~ b3.sically no'; qivinq b:.rn
~c~:)ols .:'lll ov::.r th~ COU',1try f"'lt'oviding ~c]uc3.t5.on.
•In•. !••
B~l,:inor£?
.•. T"'T,'"TC" •
.L,l, . j ••••••
I,
162
narJ.::'.'1Qfor th=. 1'''lrvla:1r1 Port Authority,
fro!". th.=. huild~.,,-q,
m=-ch.,c): thi <; ,
r.OLDSTF.I!l,
nalt~mor~ to build that school.
1m.• LEHIS:
pn.. LPHS: rae}: ':':0 you.
1m. C;OLDSTEP': I c~ll your ~t~~~tio~to this.
~~R. LENIS: Ths bas.:.c cone .~ptis nut a lind ..to
You could build tos!1 acrss
'IR. (:()LDS,;,rI!!:
163
oF3
(to you.
1m. (;()LDSTr.Ul: That is th~ 9~ly~hinq
I 53,\'" ahou't =."c. ~~d th? fact vau should hu~ld a high-r~s~
'IOU have .: :..-v ~n.l::ona P3X~:, you C3.~' t g;~t
l'?~d, Blod: (,7,"'ith th~ r'l.).lro'td-;;racl: O~ o~~ s:ld-,:..
LT. (;0VO:RflOR LET': ()~,re", do I.
Pr-;;:viously I ~.fv~n r'.~.c:\11,w.~ h?o '3.~t un c-:=.t'.:;~i'1.
It.~r:1
LT. (;()V::::R:T()R L~r.:
164
LT. r:{)Vr:~:T0n r..!-:E:
rm. GOLDSe'Er,: I ~"ould h'-lV" c"'" 11'~d your
is tho.'~rio!1':?
,""•• > B ' S" C 11O~ ;.O~';":l~._;;a"C~ 0 -?g~,
0lf'5/'?-. r,()I,DST~It! :
165I~ h~s to ~~ annrovsd ~t ~his
1m. LPI'7IS: I')" did it on Cln informal r~sis.
'.fR. r,()LDSTEIn :
/
L'nfortuna:b:1 v
\
I
d~d no~ ~~clud~ m~cha~ical a~ri acoustical or any R~ditic~al
I not. 1'1;;.ckto ~"ou a::d a::tVB: you i!'1fotTlat::.o~ 0:1
th~s""-!:tpc :.to::.n~ 5.f VOll r.~c~ll.
~'R.~nLD~~SI?l:niaht.
r1p.• LEPIS: Thr:.c;'~ ar'-s ~hort forns, ',.1ith "cr-=
~~cha~ic~lco~trac~o~,~l~ctr~calcc~trac~orhscauss to GO
lFi6
and ~o do ~h~ msch~~icaland ~h~ acoust~caltha~ is involv~d
This dO~s~1t tak~ a~y oth~r
!1P.. J,nn s :
LT.
01(-7
lG7'
of . -~."':. .\-]", h?d your :.nformal ?,nnroval
T'l':'\n ••.•T"c; •!~. ,~ ••• '~.' •
l.n~.
168
1m. (:()LDS'CFIJJ:
EMUUS()l1: R~.qh':. T". . h';L':S J.S ,. ~~"1q
1m. Lr.~oJIS: Th3.': is /'C:"l7.Cfcm",ry Cou::':~' cannus.
I'R. r.OLDSTEIl!: P-21, T):'l.(J'" 114.
Th~.I;. i~ 'tho! Pors" nron'=.rty.
y,~.s•
j--1r. 0 I Douqhsrty
'IP'. 111\P.P.I S0:' :
-:- .•.. :. . "
".,IG9
GOVEnnOR TA"lES: All rig:l"'~,
LT. GOVEP'::OR Lr:E: rt~m P-23 is d ~f"~rr,",d.
~olicy Qn all th~t wat~rfronta~d ~v~rythi~q.
LT. GOVElUOR LEE: Th~y s",,,m ";;0 b,; s\.-inging
back and f:)r';;~l lii:~ crazy.
th~ "Board?
HR. LEIns:
1,'1'. GOVEPJ1:J~ L:SE: Did Grace g~t a dat.,;?
r:!:. GOLDSTI:r:l:
liR. GOL::>S?EI~,l: 1JOqu::stior: abou'c =-~, abs,:,lu'';-:.ly.Blair, r hon~ you will hs thsr~.
L~. G,)VERiJOR LEE:: Th::.y H=r~ 'tal);:=.~gab:Ju~
'.
GOLDSTEI11 :
that \1~ hav~ a n~stinq.
:.onor-L:u;. "C
170
I though';:
Y;,s.
That is right.
18th, 10:00 ~. m.,. Board ~f
GOVEP1KHt LEE:
~'!R. r:-OLDS'fEI:j:
LT. Govr:KIOR Lr.E: 18;;:h, 10:00 a. m.
1m. GOLDS'i'r:I?l: r13.yb", \..'~ had bi:.'C'<;-;.r mo.]:", i.-c
HR. l!.'\RRISO;I: D"c-.nb"r18, 10:00 a. m., Board
IIR. GOLDs'rr:I:l: YOU~]ould hav-:. to hav;. -ch~
L'r. Gf)VLp..NOr~ LEE: You ar-.:; gO:":1.g "COhave. -Co -=':i:::.
HR. GOLDSTEIN: The:;::is d~fi:lii;.:.?
NR. S\'J1\Nll: D~camb,x 17.
I.m. l!i\RlUSOll: Th'~ g~:~Gral ontion, \'1~ und"rst3.nd
L~. r~VE~lORLEE: It cam~ ur.glu~d.
IIR. GOLDSTEI!l:
if \!-e coulcl.
Public ~orl~~. That is f!rn?
'..:h", 13th. (;iv" h:.r.\a day to q",'';: b3.ck.
wa ~st3blish~d a policy las~ spri~g.0170
0171
171
12-;;11?
You r~call you \..'i11 b~ in i~a:1sas C:.:;:y 1
n~.HYork.
1m. GOLDSTEIll: O};C'.¥. 11" ",ill \wrry abou';;
~h:,,;.
.",J •• _ • ~Ovr:P.::C)R LEE:
GOLDS':EI:.j:
:m. I'ARRISO;-): Th" s"m", day follo\-:i"g •.iu D::J3.ru
rm. GOLDS'.:'EI:l: Okay.
;.11:.. Ll~~~IS:
I .'~11call \,~r~n B counl~ of days.
0172
172
1m. GOLDS'I'Er;I: L"t I s finish this ag"nda.
MR. LEWIS: P-23 is d6f.rr~d.
MR. GOLDSTEIn: I.C';,l;)p-:n, pag~ 115.
L'r. GO'lER:10RLEE: Tha.,: is d"f",rr,:d.
MR. HARRIson: Thai;. is d"f.,rr-,Jd, p',,:-ldi.:l.gthis
IIR. GOLDS'rr:III: It'"m \,:hat?
l-lR. llARRISO:l: It",m P-23, 51.:. ~!ary's, \.;" ar"
:'m. ("..oLDSTEI:l: I'i:sm P-24, nag". ) 1(,.
nak:;:;a corr-::.ction 0_1 s~ti.:l--;.I 5 ap?raisal.
I had to
rm. m\RRISOir: $215,000 i:1st'2.ad of $125,000
1m. GOLDSTT:IH: That' i::ook car", of i;hat.
Ii::~nD-2, p3g~ 19.
H..'<. IlARRISO:!: This is th" 0:1= \o,h:r" r,,10c31:io:1,
':-:.ci l::d .ch~A~otrl1~Y G-~:i-::.ral'S Ol)i:l':'C11 as to th; r~aSO:1 v,rhy
:t should b: naid.
i'lR. GOLDSTEr-r: Thai:: is th" an'" that has b"..-'.r:
:1. flux for quii::~ a whil=, Blai.r.
-:-;~.,:}:.:n , '~h:.":/
)173
II
co:rcrov;.rs:''l.1 :"SSU6 ,,'i':;~ r"f';r;.;)c; '\;0 movi:1g cos'\;s and
r"p1ac"m~n':. of h::>usi:-:g, r?.1ocai::"o:1.
IlR. Er,PJUSO;'!: Thai::.s r:.gh'c..
Th" n~xt :.'c-,;.mvIas D-4, on pag6 121.
I:R. W\RRISO;!: D-4, you had that aprrov~d.
r~loca~ion.That is okay.r:~R. HJ\RP.ISO!~: Th~r-:;. '..J(~S ::0 r.~loca-i::.io:1 cos.:~
GOVEP~;OR T}\!':LS: HoVl <':!)out D-(', 122?
1m. PHIPPS: You ar" holding hac!: $lG40.
IlR. HARRISON: T!.a'c is 11-5.
:m. GOLDS:TIil: 0:1 1)-G or 1)-7?
GOVI:R:iOR T~"\H:CS: D-G--
nn. ILl\RRISO:l: 'l'hat is color ..:.d !':1a~.
Ii v:"::(I c:~ 'l. :>M ororl-;.rty t!1-;.y bought:. This r1,":1 did
~ot ~lavsa~" disnlac~nsnt of hQus~~g, is til: way I f~:l
173
:)174
174
r
I1m. P!!IPPS:
nn. ]E\RRI so:: : Y,<;;. s .
1m. PHIPPS: A -cot",,1 of $12, f)O()-som~-odcl?
nn. Ei'\.~!"{ISO:l: ::0. Tho:~ is all.
1m. Pl!IPPS: \.:3. S
~ll 0:: Si1:' ':'.:h IS nron ,....r.:.:y, ~o nor::.?
!tR. HARRI Sl)l; : ,..~."- , fi.:1:.sh-~d.
!!R. PHIPPS: :1::n-1, -:;h~';..;.n~a:....s ~....~':.h~Vd -;;h,".=.
r:n. El\P.!US():l: That175
ar'" L:.ving ~h~r'l "ayi.ng rs::t.
1m. PllIPPS: O!:av.
nn. EZ\HRISO~::
nR. GOLDSTEIH:
Th.1.S T:l3.~~ha.s mov:id 2.::d ~s still liv:.!:g OZ1
:m.. PHIPPS:
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HR. P!!II'PS:
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PHIPPS: Or s::Jn~":h::'::q
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This p=rson h3S b~~n
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017G rfR. PHIPPS: l!'~ nov~.d \/i":h \;h~ Smith
176
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13y r-~c111c.:'..~g .=...;; $10,000.
\
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10,noo ~~ ma~~tai~ tha read?
1m. PEIPI'S: :;~. r.:: :.5 :"1:;' rOod,
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177
:;,177
(Th:.s is
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j IP.. J!i\P.P.ISO!l: niqh~. r~duci:'.q i~ to 37,OOO-plus.
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L'l'. r.OVr:p~,:onLI:T:: ~'l~ich o::,,-?
0178
178
H~S q:Jod.
TIR. ~()r.,DSTEll~: 'llh';, nixt it~F.t, L-22, naC],:: 135.
?hn~ is th~ Towso~ sta~s Collsg~, nla~r.. Thai: is ;:ha-=
LT. (;()'IlI:R::ORLr:r::: D':.z.r old Aubur11 back again.
PR. GOLDSTBI:J: y ;~~•
a n~rc~n~aq~of th~ la~d valu~.
~.'pJ '.• , • Lnns:
r-r::1I S : of .. .~.•.....- ...•~.._-~•..•.•.......
L'l'. r;ovr:Ri:OR LI:~: Good.
:1
179
(179 t1ow-3.days on campus',-;s you hav~ i:ha'c
HR. r;OLDS7r:Iii:
1ln. L~WIS: L-24, nag'~
r~n. GOLDSTr:lIi: -- 137.
l1R. ~f)LDS?r:I;;: Y'~.s. I thi~~:i~ is all righ~.
'. ,,'. .J_'.~ __ .. '-. ~
SUB~J.ECT
State P:;"[i.cSchoolCons trl!;:ion
Option lJ~ Purchaseof Mine, 1 Reservations
Restoral.ion of the~:al' y St:n"" t t
Purchas(~ ,f Deedof Ease:.; ItRo/;ers ,s, Jr.
Marylan,1 .';I:a te Board[nl" Com:;,',ity Colleges(:,:onlg-o" ""y Community COllege)
AGE!':DA, PAGEITE~: XUMnEH
Secrctal.Y'S AI~endaI tern 13Page 15
General ServicesPage 117AItem P..27
General ServicesPage 7I tern 11
General ServicesPage 121Item D.8
General ServicesPar;e 19Item M-7
Budget AgendaItem GI 27A
WITNESS
Mr. Alford R. Carey •.Jr.Mr. Robert FisherMrs. Janice Frederick
Warren Rich
Arthur C. Townsend
Arthur C. Townsend
William Strasser
John J. Kent,Jr.
181
2
15
19
21
25
39
••••ce••••
182
=======,..======================================================SUnJECT
Demollti,), of St. Mary'sSeminary Grounds
Hight-of Way --Dclmarv~ Power andLight Cu;'puny
Tentati~ Allotment toEstabH:,.: G Unclassifiedf'ositiol', Division ofS t;,tc D" "lments
Ba1timo,', City, ~Ioores Run-Herrin;; ;t.1n
~Iaintc~..':,:eReinspectionSurvey
~~ainteni~I,~~CReinspccttonSurvey _..Sin te Pub lie SchoolConstrue,Lon Progam
AGENDA,PAGEITE:,I NU:.!iJEH
Opell Space AgendaSupplement AItem 28-A
Open Space AgendaPage 29AItem 29'\
Bud~et AgendaItp.m GEF-5A
Secretary's AhendaPage 9Item 8
Secretary's AgendaPage 15Item 13
W!T~ESS
Dour;las TawneyFather ,Tohn Sullival1Arthur C. Townsend
J. E. Hobbs
Robert Colbert
Isadore Gertman
TRANSCRIPT PAGE
46
82
95
115
115
117
•...00t'-'
183
SUBJECT AGENDA,PAGE WITNESS TRANSCRIPT mGEr TE~,~NUlll1EH
White Pl.t ins Regional Open Space A~etlda 120Par,k Paf~e 8A
Item 8A"
, ,
TaI:'oma u: ,)an Park Open Space Agenda Mr. Wi lliarn Gries 1201\(;q uis i~Jon Page 17;\
Item 17A.
Annapoli~ MerchandiseJ,~.)rt
Request tn Abolish Positionof ~:q'J;1] DpportunitySup~rvjsr" -- Departmentof Hen 1lli and Mental Hygiene
State 1.:,,, Department--Emcrgc;]cj' Position
~1;lrY la nci Public I3roadcasti ngCommissioil
BudgHt AgendaPage 2r temGEF-2
311dget AgendaPage 14Item GI-14
BlIdr;et AgendaPage 17GI 17
Budget AgendaPage 21GI-21
142
143
141
115•...enw
J • 184
=======,-======================================================SUilJEC,'
Six New .0s1tlo08--Dept. (> I ?ubllc Safety andCorrcc ti .::Ia 1 Services
Dept. of State Plannlog--19;6 FL:ll Year OperatingBtH bO t
1;;<1 ti::l(JI"(' Ci ty Fish Market
Emerl;C:"."/~ledlcal ServicesPr'lgrr,,,,. . Dept. of Health &Mont"l ~:.,:iene
nl~ilt'0" Jay AcquisitionFo;' :.:T:"
Cons ~ijle:' :~.O:lrd 11cmbcrs
AGENDA,PAGEITE~l 1.l;Mngn
uadr:et AgendaPage 2.1Item G!-24
Bud;;-etArrendaPage 27Item GI-27
Pnge "ITItem !iTDepart:nent ofTransportation Budget
Item STDept. of TransportationBudgetPage lOT
Dept. Of Transportion BudgetPage GTItem '1T
Budget Dept. AgendaGEF.- 5D
WITNESS TRANSCRIPT PAGE
147
149
153
156
156
.157
.tt • .- 185
=====' ..~.~============================================SUBJECT AGEND/,. P,\GE WITNESS TRI~NSCnI PT PAGE-----ITE:.i ~mllJEn
Guid.~li:h.,. for Constructionuf Commut.;I.y Colleges
Genera 1 Service,"Page 86Item 1.1-2
Agenda 159
Bowie
r'l,;tJl.1ati":l of Partitions--Cl'ntral L~,oratory and Office
l'Jge 2I tern 3Gencral Services Agenda
Ganeral Services AgendaPa{;c 6Item 9
Generol Services Age~d3Pac-c B9Item P-1
164
165
167
•....00til