' . 11458 -CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 1,

time; bnt tills tempest wm puss, and the confidence of the people in such securities "'ill again return unles:-; we take apt and proper measures against these :!)ractices at this time. I want to make it impossillle ever to repeat the performances of the earlier period, because it was i:J. that period that most of these grent combinations were formed.

.1\fr. Pre ident, I am now about to enter upon another question relating to the bill under consideration, and I understand it is the purpose to adjourn about 4 o'clock. If it is entirely con­venient to Senators, I should be glad if an adjournment could be taken nt this time.

1\Ir. NEWLA.l.~DS. Before the motion to adjourn is put, I desire to ask whether '\¥e can not get unanimous consent for a vote upon this bill and amendments at 5 o'clock to-morrow evening.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Secretary will call the roll. Mr. Cl.!Ml\HNS. I will state to the Senator that it is quite

unnecessary to propose such a unanimous-consent agreement, because there will be an objection. It can uot be had.

Mr. NEWLANDS. Then, I will not make the request. The VICE PRESIDEl\TT. The Secretary need not call the

roll. HOBR OF MEETING TO-MORROW.

.Mr. KERN. I move that when the Senate adjourns to-day it adjourn to meet to-morrow at 11 o'clock a. m.

'.l'he motion was agreed to. EXECUTIVE SESSION.

1\Ir. KERN. I move that the Senate proceed to the consider­ntion of executive business.

The motion was agreed to, and the Senate proceeded to the consideration of executive business. After four minutes spent in executive session the doors were reopened, and (at 4 o'clock p. m.) the Senate adjourned tmtil to-morrow, Thursday, July 2, 1914, at 11 o'clock a. m.

- NOMINA.TIONS. -Executi'l:e nominations recei1:ed by the ~Senat-e July 1, 1911,.

AMBASSADOR. George '1'. Marye, of San Francisco, Cal., to be ambassador

extraordinary and plenipotentiary of the United States of Amer­ica to Russia., vice Henry M. Pindell, resigned.

PROMOTION IN THE ARMY. CAVALRY ARM.

Second Lieut. James L. Collins, Eleventh Cavalry, to be first lieutenant from June 29, 11:114, vice First Lieut. John Symington, First Cavalry, who died June 28, 1914.

CONFIRl\fATIONS. BJJecuti·re nominations cottfinnca by the S enate Jttly 1, 1914.

- COLLECTOR OF CUSTOMS. Herbert C. Comings to be collector of customs for the district

of western Vermont. POSTMASTERS.

IOWA. John J. 1\IcAreavy, Coggon. J. H. Pettibone, Burlington. Elisha D. Roberts, Reinbeck.

KANSAS. W. C. White, Osage City.

OHIO. Benja min F. Reineck, Gibsonburg. Alexander J. Shenk, Delphos. D. C. Van Voorhi , Bowling Greeu.

PENNS\'LVANIA. J. F. John:ton, St rasburg.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. WED~ESDAY, July 1, 191,4.

The House met at 12 o'clock noon. The Cbnplain, Hev. Henry N. Couden, D. D., offered the fol­

l owiu~ prayer: Out of the <leep , 0 God onr Father. we cry unto Thee for a

more iul';istent desire to li\·e the truth as it is given us to see the trnth; for a mo1-e iu istent desire to deal justly with all men; to exn et nothiu~ from our fe llows that we are uot willing to do our ·elyes, au<l to ask. nothing for ourselves that we can

not freely accord to others; thnt truth, justice, mercy, love may have their full sway, and bring ns into harwouy with Thee and our fellow men; in the spirit of the Master. Amen.

The Journal of the proceedings of yesterday wns read and ap­proved.

JUDICIAllY CODE . 1\fr. DUPRE. .1\fr. Speaker--The SPEAKER. For what purpose does the gentleman from

Louisiana rise? Mr. DUPRE. I rise to present a request for unanimous con­

sent. Among other bills favorably reported from the Judiciary Committee is H. R. 4545, to amend an act entitled "An act to codify, revise, and amend the laws relating to the judiciary," approved March 3, 1011, now on the calendar. That is one of a series of bills indorsed and urged by the. American Bar Associa­tion. In looking up the report filed by the committee I find that it contents itself with saying that tile committee recom-mends that the bill be passed. ·

In order that the House may have some knowledge of the measure I requested .1\fr. Everett P. Wheeler, a well-known In w­yer of :Xew York, to prepare an analysis of the bill, which be has kindly done, and I ask unanimous consent that his views be printed as my own, in connection with the report heretofore made on this subject.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Louisiana asks unani­mous consent to file his views on the bill which he mentions with the report. Is there objection?

There was no objection. COTTON FUTURES.

.1\fr. LEE of Georgia. 1\Ir. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the House insist on its amendments to the b1ll ( S. 110) to regulate trading in cotton futures and provide for the standard­ization of "upland" and "gulf" cotton separately.

'l'he SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the title of the bill. The Clerk rend the title uf the bilL The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Georgia asks unani­

mous consent that the House insist on its amendments to Senate bil1 110, and agree to the conference asked by tbe Sen­ate. Is there objection?

Ur. 1\L-\..NN. Reserving the right to object, I take it that it would be in order to mo-ve that, unless it were Calendar Wednes­day.

Mr. LEE of Georgia. Does the gentleman prefer to have it put in ~t form?

1\Ir. Ul';DERWOOD. I do not think that motion would be in order yet, but the gentleman can probably get unanimous c<ln­sent.

Mr. LEE of Georgia. Does the gentleman from ·Illinois ob­ject?

Mr. MANN. No; _I am riot going to object, bec-ause it would be in order to make the motion.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Undoubtedly, to-morrow. :Mr. LEE of Georgia. I ask unanimous conse!lt. The SPEAKER. Is there objection? There was no objection. and the Speaker announced as the

conferees on the part of the House .Mr. LEVER, 1\Ir. LEE of Georgia, and l\Ir. HAuGEN.

CALENDAR WEDNESDAY. Mr. FI'l'ZGERALD. Mr. Speaker, I ask unauimons consent

that the business of Calendar Wednesday be postponed until to-morrow.

In connection with this request I desire to say that there is one subject still in disagreement in the legislative bill. There are two in the District bilJ, and it is possiWe that if to­<lay could be gi\eu to the consideration of these items these two bills may be closed and go to the President for his approval.

'l'he SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York Ll\Ir. FJTZ. GERALD] asks unanimous consent to substitute to-morrow for to-day for the business of Calendar Wednesday.

'l'here was no objection.

HOUR OF MEETING TO-MORROW.

Mr. DUPRE. l\fr. Speaker, will the gentleman from New York yield?

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York hns not the floor.

Mr. DUPRE. I should like to ask whcO:.her it is still the Jntention to have the Hou e meet to-morrow at Jl o'clock ?

Mr. UNDERWOOD. Unless the gentleman from l\ils:;;ouri desires to ha...-e the Hou e meet at i1 o'clock to-wonow it is not necessary to meet at that time.

Mr. MANN: Let us meet at :J2 ,o'clo-ck. l\fr. STAFFORD. Will the gentleman yield--

1914. CONG.RESSIO~AL. RECORD-· lfOUSE. 114.19 I

1\Ir. UXDEllWOOD. In vi~w of the fnc~ tbnt CnTendal' one leglslnti'-e body- has no authoeity-- to · force legislation upon Wc:>rlnesdlly· h<lS b~en · put over untH to-morrow I nsk nn:min:ons the other.· body. conRent to r~scind the ord E-r thut the House meet at 11 o'clock l\Ir. FITZGERALD. Will the gentleman yield?. to-ntOITClW, ann that" Ute Hon~e meet nt 12 o'clock. 1\Ir. JOH~SO~ of South Cctrolina. I will.

The SPEAKER '"he gentlema.n ft·om Alabnmn a~ks unani- 1\Ir. FITZGERALD. Is not tbL>-H di ffet·ent s ltuFttion. and hns mons con~c:>nt to rescind the unaniruons-com::ent order· fixing .. l)e one legi~lati\~ body the right to coerce auot·ber legisl<ltil"e hody bour of meNing to-morrow at 11 o'clo~k. nnd that the House into accepting a sum for p;tyment of its rnileage that that IJody mPet· nt 12 o'dock to-morTow. Is there objection 1 has repeatedly st<-lted it does not want?

There was no objection. l\Ir. JOHXSON of South Cnrolina. I will comP. to the record The Sl'EAKEU. The Hm~se ~ill meet n~ 12 o'clock ~o-mor- Inter. I Jo not like to be dh·erted from the com·Re of my nrgu-

row, unless the hour of meeting IS ch mged m the me:mt1me. rnent; but. seriously, that is :m E'Stablished rule thnt ohtuins b~

LEGISLATIVE, EXECTTIVE, AND .7UDICIAL APPROP<liATTON BILL.

1\lr. JOIJ:NSOX of South Carolinn. 1\Ir. Speaker, I <'fill up the conference repo:·t ('n the le;;islatiYe, executive, and judicial approprhttion bill, H. R. 15::!';!>.

tween coordinate legislatiYe bodies. I want the HECORD to show that a coordinate branC'h of Congress reruses to_ acrept this leg­isl<ltion, and accepts full responsibility f'or th<lt refnsal.

The conferees- on t11e part of the Honse ha \e E>nde;_n 'ored in perfect good faith to carry out the mandates aud the in~truc­tious of tbe House. By a yea-and-nny ,·ote this Honse indi­cated the line of nction it desired the confen~es to follow, nud we bnYe followed thut course and endetHured to conrince the Senate conferees that it ought to be incorporated into this bill.

The SPEAKER The gentleman from South Cnrolinn cnlls up the cor.ference report on the bill (H. R. 1r:i2in) making ap­propriations: for tlle legislntive. execnth·e. and judicial ex11enses of the Oo,·ernment for the fiscal yE>ar ending June !lO, lUlu, and for other purposes. 'l'he Clerk wi II rend the re}1ort.

l\Ir. FlTZGEIULD. Let the statement be r.ead in lieu of the :Mr. S11eaker. we are tbe serrnnts of the House. \Ve h:we

done all that we h.-new · how to do to cart-y out its will. Tho other body hns refused to yield, ~mel does not e\·en desire a

statement. further conference. We are b<lck wlth the pupers for an ex:-~ report.

)Ir. JOHXSOX of South Carolina. There is no There is only a single seutence in the report.

Thf? SPEAKEU. The Clerk will read the report. The Clerk re:td as follows:

CONFERKNCE REPORT (NO. 915).

The committee of· c Jnference on the disagreei11g Yotes of the two Hous:es on cert:1in Hmendments of the Sen:1te to the- bill (H. R. H)2i!)) mnldng nppropriations- for the legislntiYe, exec­u-tive. and judicial expenses of the Go,·crnment for tile fiscnl ye:u· encling June 30. l!Hu. and for- other purposes. h<1Ying met, after full and free conference have been unable to agree.

JosEPH T. JoHNSON, JOSEPH "\\r. BYRNS?" J-AMES W. GooD,

Managers on the part of the House. THOMAS S. MARTIN, LEE Sl OVERMAN, F. E. "\\7 ARREN-,

Manage,~s . 01~ the part" of the Senate.

The SPEAKER. How many amendments does that len ve in di sn greem en t?

.Mr. J.OHXSON .of South Carolina. Two. Amendments :Land 30 11re the only ones which are still. open.

TIJe SPEAKER Those are the mileage amendments. What does the gentleman desire?

l\Ir. JOH~~OX of Routh Carolina. I desire recognition. - The SPE..lKEU. The gentleman is already recognized.

Mr. JOHXSO~ of South Carolina. l\1r. Speaker. I hope I may ha\·e the attention of the House for a few minutes.

.Aftt"r threP long and arduous conferences with the Renllte on the legislnti\·e, exe<'utive. nnd judicial appropriation bill, which conferenc-es ('Overed three or four days.-- we ha ,·e been able to agree upon eYery item in thP bill except amendments 1 and . ao. Tbese amendments. <IS the melllbership well h.-nows. deal witll the milenge of Senators and UepresentntiYes and Delegates in Congress. In the Inst conference. which was the thit'(l, the Sennte nhsolntely refused to recede from its position upon tlleRe two amendments. It not only refuses to re~ede. but the Senate dees not ask fot· a fnrther conference. I am 11dYised that in the Senate. uron the call for ihe yeas and nays on a motion to couc·ur in the Honse amendments, only three hands went up.

l\Ir. l\L\:\X Will the gentleman yield? Mr. JOH~SO~ of South Carolina. Yes, sir. Mr. ~IA:-.;x. The gentleman bus not read the proceedings in

the RECORD the WilY I h:n-e. The r.ECOBD says thelt the Senator from Texas moYecl that the se.12nte <·Oncur in- the House amend­ment: that the SenatOI' from A1·knns<1s made the point of ot·det· thnt thet·e wus no House amendment, that it was me1·e talk of thP confPt'Pes; and th11t the President pro tempore- of the Senate sust<~ ined the point of order and declined to let a vote be had on tte mlltter.

l\Ir. JOH~SO~ of South Carolina. At nny rate. the Sennte does not desire any further conference wit-h the House on this snbjcrt. It takes full responsibility. and I want the RECOBD- to s.how· thnt fact, for' the deft-.at of this legislation.

I nm not an nntbority on parli<~mentary . law. but I urrder~tand that it is a long-established preredent in all legislati-l"e bodies tll:lt where one house. [H'opo~s legislation o.n an appropriation bill nnd the other house finally and fhttly t·efuses to nrcellt thac legislatioru the- house-. p:ropnsln~ itJ must yield. In;. other words,

pression from .the Rouse. 1\lr. GARXER Will the gentleman yield. for a question? 1\lr. JORNSO~ of South Carolina. I will. l\Ir. GARNER. If the House should reject the report or sns­

tnin the House conferees and ask for another confei'eilce. does the gentleman belieYe that he could get the Senate to ngree to n conference; or have . they declined. further to confer o.ver tliis matter!

1\lr. JOHXSO~ of South Carolina. The conferees on the pnrt of the Renate have nssured the conferees on the part of the House thaf they would ruther kill the bill than to Jet this pro• vision go in it.

1\Ir. GA.ll~ER. In other words, to mnlm a concret~ · state­ment. so that the ·country may understand: the confE'I'ees on the }lart of the. Senate ha,·e insisted that the · mileage shall remain at 20 cents a rrtile ot• else the bill shul1 fail?

l\1r. JOHNSO~ of South Carolina. Th<tt is the position. 1\fr. Spenker. I desire _to return to· the sho\\ing m:tde in the SFmnte on· this proposition. 11 point of order wns runde when the Sena­tor fr.om 'Ie..'{as moYed that the Senate concur in tiJe Honse nmendment. and the point of order wns snst:~ined; wllPl'P.npon the Senator from Te..'\ns ruoYed that the conferePs on the part of the:> Sennte be instructed to agree . to the Honse fllll(.>ndment~ and a motion wa!'l mHde to Jay that on the table.. T1pon tbat motion the ye;ls and n:1ys were et:tlled for; and: that, I presume. · is-the time when the tbree· hllnds .went up.

l\1v. MA~X Will the gentlemnn yield? Mr. JOH. 'SON of South. Carolina. Yes, sir. Mr. 1\fAl'\N. I understood the gentleman. to say that the. Sen-

ate· refused · a· further conference; · Mr. JOHXSON of South. Carolina. I sald that the Senate

does not nsk for a · further conference. l\lr. MAXN: The Hou~e nsked for a further conferE>nce yes­

terdny, and the Senate ngreed. 1\Ir. JOHNSO~ of South Carolina. Yes; and we have re­

ported a disngreement on thnt conference. 1\Ir: MANN. Has the Sennte·nC'ted upon· it this morning'? 1\Ir. JOHXSOX" of South Carolina. The Senate actl'd upon tt

yesterday afternoon and sent it here withont m01ldng for a fur­ther conference: And. then. we were told thnt tiJe onl\" reason the. Senate did not ~1dopt a motion to nrlilere wns tbnt they w~nted to be polite nbout it. I will now yield to the geuUeruan from AlabnmlL [l\lr~ HARRTsl fiye minntes.

1\lr. LEVY~ A parliamentilry inquiry. Mr. Speaker. 'The SPEAKER. The gentleman will stnte it. 1\Ir. LEVY. "\\r"outd it be in order to offer lnsh·nctions to re-

cede from our-position and concm~ with the SenHte'? The SPEAKER. We hnYe not got to thtlt place yet, l\1r. MANN. A parliamentary inq·niry. The SPEAKER. The gentlemnn will ~t~1 te it. 1\lr. MA~X. What i$ now before the Honse? The SPEAKER. There is nothing- pemling. . Mr. l\1ANN. I will m~k for the regulnr or<'l~r .. The SPEAKER The gentlE>man from South Carolina in

chnrge of' the bill rose and uddressed the Chair, but llo did not rna ke any motion.

1\Ir. JOHNSON of Soutll' Cnro1ina. Then~ l\Ir. Spenker. I wilt mnke one no\\·. r moYe thnt the House fnrtlier insigt on its amendment to Senate ameutlment No. 1 nnd insist on its dis­agreement to· Senate· amendment· J>'lo.; 30.

11460 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE;

The S:£EAKER. The gentleman from South Carolina mo"es thrit the House insist npon its amendment to Senate amendment No. 1 and ins.ist upon its disagreement to Senate amendment No. 30. . .

:Mr. JOHNSON of So,Jth Carolina. Mr. Speaker, I yield five minutes to the gentleman from Alabama [.Mr. HARRIS]. ·

l\Ir. HARRIS. Mr. Speaker, I move. that . the House recede from its disagreement to Senate amendments No. 1 and No. 30 and concur in the same. I am not sure that the motion should apply to bo.th of these at orie time or separately. If it is neces­sary that I make them separately, I shall do so. ·

The SPEAKER. The real motion that the gentleman makes is that the House recede from its amendment to Senate amend­ment No. 1 and· concur- in the same, and that the House rececle from Hs disagreement to Senate amendment No. 30 and concur in the same. .

1\lr. HARRIS. That is correct, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman desire to address the

House? · Mr. HARRIS. Mr. Speaker, I simply desire to say that I

think the Bouse has dallied with this question long enough. T~e 1\lembers of the House and the Senate have received this mileage from a time whereof the memory of man runneth not to the contrary, and I see no reason now for dispensing with it.

~Ir. ·JOHNSON of South Carolina. 1\lr. Speaker, I yield five minutes to the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. Cox].

:\It·. COX. Mr. Speaker, I do not know that I will use the the minutes. We are occupying, to my mind, rather a peculiar situation. Whi:m this bill was reported from the Committee on Appropriations containing a provision to put traveling expenses on an actual expense basis, on a division vote in this House it was defeated by a vote of seventy-two or three to forty-odd, and on a roll call or record vote it was carried by a vote of 235 to, I think, 88. Some criticism was urged against that provision because it contained an omnibus clause giving to Members the right to bring the dependent members of their family to Wash­ington at public expense. In order to obviate that and to the end that every Member of this House and every Member of tbe Senate would know exactly what his mileage was we have now reached this position, proposing to giYe to the Members of the Senate 5 cents a ·mile and, of course, whatever the Senate gets the Bouse will get the same. ·Now, here comes a threat, nn absolute threat, from the grave and seda~e Senators of the United States to the Hou e of Representath-es, to this effect: •· We propose to let this big appropriation bill fail rather than gi,-e up our mileage."

l\lr. Speaker, I wonder if the time has come in tlte great Sen­ate of the United States when they propose to let a bill carrying $3G.OOO,OOO fail before they will accept an amendment which the Hou.se has proposed to them giving them 5 cents a mile when it is admitted by a..ll persons, irrespective of where they come from or their party politics, that 5 cents a mile will more than pay any man's traveling expenses, no matter whether he cotiles from the Philippine Islands, from Hawaii, or Alexandria. Shall we be rmt in that attitude? Let no man be deceived when it c.:omes to casting his vote to-day. Were we in good faith when we voted 5 cents a mile, or were we hoping that the Senate of the United States would serve as a back stop for ns and save the mileage? It is said we can not let this bill fail. Oh no. This whole thing can be settled in less than five min­nt~s. The burden is not upon this House if this bill fails. The burden is upon the Senate of the United States, and if there is :my odium attached to the failure of this bill, let them and them alone be responsible.. Let no Member of this House under­tnke to take the respon ibility from their shoulders. If a motion to recede and concur in this Senate amendment be made, let no man l..le deceived. He is voting for a straight 20 cents a mile. Then let him go back to his district and undertake to explain to }lis constituents and say, ." Oh, I had to back out; I could not do otherwise; the Senate refused to yield upon that, :mel I hnd to yield." For one, .Mr. Speaker, I refuse to swing oc to the coat tails of my Senators. I propose to stand upon my own fQoting and upon my own merits upon this proposition and let the re ponsibility be theirs.

~tr. Speaker, I saw t.he House last October gallantly walk up and defeat an appropriation of $142,000 to pay these lit­tie emvloyees amund here an extra month's salary upon a record vote of 151 to 48. The Republican Party's position upon thi has been much more consi tent than ours. They gave their employees an extra month's salary to pay them their mile­age expense. We took that away from them .. when we gained control of the Sixty-second Congress, and we wtll never let them have it ngain. Last October, on a re.cord vote, as I said a mo­ment ago, we prevented the_ Uttle employees from getting their. extra monD's salary, and it was right. They have _no right to

it. Here are these little page boys all over this floor: They get, I · think; $75 a month, and yet tlley get on the train and they travel here probably a thousand miles and pay tlleil· train fares, and we contii1ue · to vote onrseh·es· 20 cents a mile! There would be no show on earth for any other . em11loyee of the Government to get 20 cents a mile except the Meml..lers of­the House and the United, States Senate.

'Ibe SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Indiana bas expired.

Mr. JOHNSON of South Carolina. Mr. Speaket·, I yiel<l two minutes to the gentleman from Mississippi [l\lr. CANou:n]. :

Mr. C.A1\TDLER of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker, I fa>or the mo· tion made by .the gentleman from South Carolina [~r. JoHN· soN], that we further insist upon this disagreement. I belie\·e that we should stick to our text aud insist upon our rights, rather than recognize the rights so valinntly asserted by tile· coordinate branch of the Congress nf the United 'ta tes. I! they desi~·e to see this great bill fail, which carrie · appl'opria·· tions for the expenses of the National Government. rather than reduce the mileage which they receive from 20 cents a mile each way to 5 cents a mile each way, as propo ed by the House, as was said so forcibly by the distinguished gentleman from Indi­ana [~1r. Cox], let them take the responsibility, an~ let the people of the country know where that responsibility t'E'sts. I haTe voted upon every occasion when I bad the opportunity· during all the contests thilt ·have been made in refereuce to this proposition for a reduction of mileag~.

I do not belieYe at this time, when we have quick transporta­tion at a very much reduce<l rate, that this amount should be continued to be paid. It w·as enacted and made a part of the law in the early days, away back yonder when. the expense of traveling was very much larger than it is at the preseut time. The expense of traveling has been decrease<l from time to time until now it is practically at a minimum. Then why shoul<l this rate be still continued on the statute books, when the rate .. h'as been reduced which we .are required to pay'? I will vote for any amount that will reduce it from the amount at which it is now placed. I will yote to reduce it to 5 cents, or I will vote to take it out alt0getber [applause], becaus(' I do not belie\"'e the game is worth the candle; and I would rathet· it wonl<l be taken off the statnte books and receive not a single, solitary cent in the way of mileage than to continne to hear the ct·iti­cism that exists in respect to .it all oYer the country.

l\Ir. 1\IOllRISO:N. Will the gentleman yield? . Mr. CANDLER of Mississippi. · I hal'e not the time to yield,

becau e I ha\"'e only two minutes. ~ The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman has expired. Mr. MORRISON. I ask the gentleman from Soutli Carolina

to yield a minute. Mr. JOHNSON of South Carolina. I . yield the gentlernnn one

minute. Mr. MORRISON. I had hoped that some · gentleman wonld

offer a motion to strike out the mileage entirely. I nm follow­ing . the gentlemen who are making this fight, and have been following t~em with misgivings. If the gentle.man will intro­duce the motion, I will--

Ur. CA!\TDLER of Mississippi. Follow me with misgivings? Mr. MORRISON (continuing). I will follow you with confi-

dence and admiration. Mr. CANDLER of Mississippi. ·Will the genpeman vote for it?, Mr. MORRISON. Yes, sir; I will. Mr. CANDLER of Mississippi. We11, I will give the gentle­

man the opportunity, if I can. Mr. MORHISON. I will do it. Mr. CA~"'DLER of Mississippi. How did the gentleman vote

the other day? Mr. MORRISON. I voted to reduce the mileage. The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman has e..'<pired. Mr. JOlli~SO:N of South Carolina. Mr. Speaket·, I yield two

minutes more to the gentleman from Mississippi. 1\Ir. CA~DLER of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker--1\fr. DO NOV AN. Mr. Speaker--The SPEAKER. For what purpose does the gentlernau .from

Connecticut ri e? .Mr. DONOVAN. To make the point that there is no quorum

present. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Connecticut makes the

point that there is no quorum present. The Chair will count. [After counting.] One hundred and sixty-six Members are present, not a quorum. ·

l\Ir. UNDERWOOD. 1\fr. Speaker, I move a call of the Honse. The SPEAKER. The gentleman· from Alabama moves a call

of the House. The question was taken, and the motion was agreed to.

CONGRESSIONAL . RECORD-HOUSE. 11461 · The SPEAKER. The Doorkeeper will close the doors, the Sergeant at Arrus will potify absentees, and the Clerk will call the roll. . ·

'.fhe Clerk called the roll, and the following Members failed to answer to their names: Ainey Edwards Lazaro Allen Elde1· Lee,J~a. Anderson Fields L'Engle AnslJen'y Gardner Leve1· Anthony George Lewis, Md. AshlJro.:>k Geny LPwis, Pa. Au!':tin Gilt I.ieb Baker Godwin, N.C. Lindquist Darchfeld Goldfogle Lubeck Barnhart Gordon Lof1: D;~ rtholdt Gorman J.ogne Bartlett Goulden Mc.dndt·ews; Beall, Tex. Gmham. Pa. McClellan Bol'land Greene, Vt. McDermott Brodueck Gr1est McGillicuddy Browne, Wis. (~riffin l\.IcGuil·e, Okla. Browning Gudger Mcl\enzie Hruckne;.o Guernsey Madden Buchanan, Ill. Hamill Maher Burke. l'a. Hamilton, N.Y. Martin Callaway Hammond Merritt Cantor Hardwt:k 1\letz Cantrill HaJeS Montague Carew H<'lgesen l\lot·gan, La. ('asey Henry Morin Clancy Hill Moss, Ind. Cl:u·k, lila. Hinds Mott eonnolly, Iowa Hob on Murdock f'opley How:nd Neeley, Kans. Col'ington Hoxwortb Nelson <.:risp Hug-hes, W.Va. Norton Dale Hulin'"'s O'Btien Dnvrnport Humphreys, Mic;s. O~lesby D;tvis Jones 0 Shaunessy Dcd\er Kennedy, R.I. Pnige, Mass: Deitricl;: Kent Parke1· • · l>cr. hem Key, Ohio Patten, N.Y. Dies R ie~s. l'n. PPtPrs, 1\Ie. Dooling Kinknid, Nebr. l'etet·son DOl'PffillS ' Knowland, J. n. Plumier DriF;eoll Korbly Porter Dlmll Kr<'ider Post Eagan Laffet·ty Powers J.j:tg-le Langham Prouty Edmonds Langley Rayburn

lliot·dan I Hobet·ts, l\Iass. Hoge1·s Rupley Babath Saunders Scully

. Shackleford Sharp Sherley Sherwood Shreve Sims ~is~cn Sla•; den Slemp ;:;rnitb, .l. J\f. C. Smith, N.Y. Smith, ·.rex. ;o:;t;arley Stedman Stephecs. Nebr. :-::terens, Minn. Steyens, N.H. Stl'inget· Sun:a .. ers Switze~· Tavenner Taylor, Ala. Temple '.fownsend Vaughan Wallin Weaver Webb Whitacre White Wilson, Fla. Wilson, N.Y. Woods Young, N.Dak. Young, '.fpx,

rrhe SPEAKER On this roU call 256 Members, a quorum, hn Ye answered to their names. The Doorkeeper will open the C.oors. ,

~h< U~TDERWOOD. Mr. Speaker, I move to dispense with further proceedings under the call.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from .Alabama moyes to dis­J1ense with further proceedings under the call.

Tlle motion was agreed to. Tbe SPEAKER. The gentleman from Mississippi [Mr.

CANDLER] is recognized for two minutes. Mr . . C.\.NDLER of Mississippi. For three minutes. Mr.

Speaker, I desire to make a motion to strike out all of the pro­,i~iou in reference to mileage of every kind whatsoever, so that no milenge will l.>e allowed.

.Mr. FITZGERALD. Mr. Speaker, I make the point of order thnt no snch motion is in order at this time.

The SP~KER. 'l'he motion is not in order now. Mr·. CANDLEU. of Mississippi. Will it be in order later? The SPEAKER. It is owing to how things develop; some·

times it wiJI be in order and sometimes it will not. .1\Ir. CA~DLER of Mississippi. Would a motion at this time

l.>e in order to instruct the conferees? The SPEAKER. No; there is not any motion in order at

the present time. 'l'he time to instruct the conferees is just uefore they are appointed.

~lr. CAXDLER of Mississippi. Then it is not in order? 'l'he RPEAKER. It is not in order. l\IJ'. C.A~I>LEll of Mississippi. Mr. Speaker, I asked whether

n. ruotion to strike out all mileage would be in order; if so, I will make the motion.

The RPE.A.KER. The Chair will state to the gentleman from 1\liR!:lissippi, iu answer to his parliamentary inquiry ·a while ago. that if the motion of the gentlemnn from Alaba_ma should be voted down. unless the previous question is ordei:ed on this n'otion. then his motion might be in order.

l\I1·. 1\IAXN. "l\light be" is well put. 'l'he · SPEAKER. The Chair knows. That is the way the

Chair wns trying to put it. Of course, the Chair has got to pnsR upon the identical proposition when it comes, but there is no cbnnce to get it in before that.

l\lr. C.-\:;\DLER of 111ississippi. I will make it, then, if I hnYe tlie opportunity.

~lr .. lOH. 'SON of South Carolina. 1\fr. Speaker. I yield five mi11ules to the gentleman from Illinois· [Mr. MANN].

Tile RPEAKER. The gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN] is recognized for five minutes.

Mr. 1\IAXN. Mr. Speaker, in · all parliamentary ·bodies w·hich consist of two parts of equal anthot·ity there come times wh~n one IJody must yield to the other. Where there are differen.::,~s of opinion we e11dea >or to reconcile those differences through the appointment of couference committees, giving and taking. But the time often comes when one body proposes something new :md the other l.>ody declines to accept it. Being of equal authority. it is a natural rule of procedure that that legislative body constituting half of the whole which proposes a new matter must in the end :yielu nnless the other body conseuts, because thP bodies are coequal. When the Senate propo es au amendment to a House at1Propriation bill which inserts a new principle, unle~s in the end the House is willing to accevt it the Senate must recede. And likewise when the Honse proposes a new proposition and the Senate refuses to accept it the House must recede, be~anse unless this procedure shonld be followed one of the two bodiPs becomes superior to the other.

Legislation is effected by both the House and the Senate agreeing to a specific proposition. Mileage at the rate of 2:> cents a mile has been paid for more than 50 years, if I recall correctly, by the snrne provision of the law. 'l'he House has now proposed to reduce that mileage in the original House biil to the actual expenses of the family, and in tile amendment of the House to 5 cents a mile. If the Senate insists. as the gentle­man from South Carolina. [Mr. JoHNSO.N] has intimateu it will-insists that it will not agt·ee to the proposition-iu the end the House must yield, as the Seuate would have to yield if. the proposition were a Senate proposition as a new matter. If the idea of the gentleman from South Carolina is correct as to what the Senate will do, the sooner we yield the less we will injnre our pride. Gentlemen haYe bravely said, ''Let tllis bill die." That is not sense. · Mr. GOOD. It is not bravery, either. .

1\lr. 1\I.ANN. The Go>ernruent can not run without the passnge of the legislative bill. The Pt·esident will not receive his salary. the courts will not receive their salaries, the officials of the Government all through will not receive their salaries, and thi~y will be prohibited even from furnishing voluntary service.

Now, we have reached the point where we will ha\'e to pnt aside, it seems to me, a matter of pride and use common sense. If we are going to yield, let us yield now. .If we are goiug to say that we 'Yill not pass the legislative bill unless we cau han:~. our way about a new proposition, we stamp onrsel>es as ill­capable legislators. I voted for the 5-cent mileage propositiou. I have not gone so far as my free-seed friend from l\Iissi~sippi [l\lr. CANDLERj, who is always in favor of free seeds and against the payment of any mileage. The payment of mileage is a mnt­ter of indifference to me. ·Yet we are responsible for the apl)l:o­priations that carry on the Government. We have met an issue now with the Senate on this appropriation ·where we have Pl'lj­

posed and they have refused, as they have the right to d_o, and we ought in good sense to recede from our proposition at tb:s time, hoping that we may present it in the future to a Seua're which will be willing to agree to that proposition. [Applause. J

1\lr. JOHNSON of South Carolina. Mr. Speaker, I yield fiye minutes to the gentleman f ... ·om Tennessee [Mr. BYRNS].

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. BYRNS] is recognized for five minutes.

Mr. BYRNS of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, I have firm convic-· tions on the question of mileage, and I have never failetl to_ express my convictions both in speech on the floor and by my yote since I have been a Member of this body. I baYe always believed that mileage ought to be limited to the actual expenses of the individual Members. I do not believe that it is the duty of this Government to bring the families of Members and Senators to the city of Washington. That is a duty which, I believe, rests upon the Representative or Senator himself.

This House, when this bill was before it on its pasgage, adopted a pro\>"ision providing for the actual expenses of Mem­bers and Senators and the dependent members of thf:ir families. The House did so, I presume, for the purpose of eliminating' the objection of inequality that was raised by some Members­who live at a great distance from the Capital city and who have· large families. While personally favoring limiting the mileage to the Member's individual expeuses, I heartily supported the provision as it passed the House, believing that it was the only_ and possibly best solution of the matter. The bill went to the Senate. The Senate struck out that provision and restored existing law. When the bill carne bnck to the House upon the· question of a conference, this House, by a record vote, instructed the conferees to stand for 5 cents a mile in so far as the Sena~ tors were concerned, intending, as we all understood, that the same provision should apply to Representatives. Your con-. ferees haYe rnade an earnest and diligent effort to carry ont the ~ishes .of the House in that respect. The Semite co)lferees have

11462 CONGRESSIONAL RE.C(}RD-IIOUSE. JULY f,

noti fted the House confer-ees thnt the bill will not pnss the Sen:! te with tll~lt pro\·ision in it. Tlwy conten1l ti:wt it is n chlln~e of exi~ting hnv. nml thnt it i~ the duty of the Hon8e of Representntites JU th:lt account to yield, in•1~, wncll ns the ~enate is opposed to the <:hange. For my pnrt. Riuce it affPCtl-1 both tbt:> Memhers of the House nnd :-::enate. I belien. th:tt tlle Eon!':E:' has a right to ~tnnd U!H.n its rigbts aud to in ist. in so far :ts it e;m. upon a rt>tluetion of thi~ mileage. if a majority of the :\fpmbPrs of the lion . e feel that w•ty :tbout it. But !.'ien:ttor> h:1ve !'::tirl tJ.wt this bill cnn not p·1s~ nnlef.'s the Honse pro\·isiou is elimi­nMed from the bill. For my p:ut believing, as I do, that milen,ge ongllt to be reduc·ed. I intend to vote for the motion to fnrther in~i8t upon the di ;lgi'PPment to the nmendrneut of thP Seu:ttE:'. I nm going to vot·e rlm t the · Hous~ stnnd by the dec·l:t red wi I of the mnjot·ity: and if tl1e bill should f:t il, tllen. so far a: r nw cotH-t"t'DN1, the re ponsibility mu~t re. t upon that burly which defeats it. I do not believe either tlle Honse or tlle Senate cull afford to stnml in the way of tlle passage of this me:tsUI-e merely l>ecause a litfe que.·tion of mile11ge i~ involve(]. 1 wonlfi l'Htllet· see mileage wipeo out thnn to hnve tiliR p•uJm­sition m·isP year after year to pla.gue and hnrns :\fember . It is a lll:t tter of prn<:ti('ally little eon<>ern to the wost of us. It lias bE:'ell lleld by the Court of c:nims tllnt it is in no 8eD~t> compeu ntiou. tll ;tt it must bE:' con::;tt·ued as mile~tge, nnd mi!Pnge only. and I have nen'J' beliPved Ulllt 1\.fembet·s coni(] .lnRtify them:-4e~ ves voting fur the pre:-ent r11te of" mi leng.e~ when we tt II lwow it requires a much smaller sum to bring us here each ses~ion.

1\Ir. JOIIX~O~ of South Cnrolinn. l\fr. Speaker, I move tb<" prerionl" qnestinn on the motions penning.

Tire SPEAKER Tl1e g~tleman from South Carolina [Ur; JoHNSON I moves the preYions question on both motions.

1\lr. FA LCO~EH. l\lr. Speat•er--The :-:PEAK Ell. E'ol' whn t purpof-:e does- the gentleman rise? 1\lr. FALCO~Ell. I risP to a parlinrnentary Inquiry. The SPL<~.l KEH: The gentleman will stHte it. l\11·. FALC'OXER. Would a vrefereutiai motion be in order

to rerene nnd concur with an amendment? Tile ~PEA KEH. No: the motion to recede rnd concur 1s the

preferential motion at this stage of the proceediug. l\.lr. I!'.ALCO~EH. After this is out of the wav won"kl a mo­

tion then be h1 order to recede and coucnr with an Hruendment? The SPF .. AKER It will depend entirely npou the shape in

whkh it coruel" np. l\1r. nn~X"ES of Routh Cnrollna. Mr. Spenker--Tbe ~PK.\KEll. Fbr what "purpose does the· gentleman from

Sonth C:n·olina rise·: .l\lr. BYU.~ES of South Carolina. To make a parliamentary

inQuiry. 'l'he SPF.AKER. Tile gentleman win state-it. 1\lr. RYH~ER of South C:trolinu. r ri~e to · n~k wbetbe~ thnt

motion to collCur in ttlllendments Xo. 1 and Xo. 30 is not a divisible mutiot1? Can not a separate vote be had upon the two <J meudment~ -?

~11· . ..\lAX"~. Yes. Tue ~T'EAKF.R. ThE' Chair t-hinks it ean.

. 1\JL•. FIT7.GERA r.n. Ry unanimous consent the House- agree 1 to vot£' ou both •Jf them together.

~Jr. Rllt~ES of Soutll Carolina. I have nQ recollection of an~· ~ucb . greem£'Ht.

1\lr •. \IA ~X. Wilen wn s- that agreement made? Thp SPEJA..h..'"Ell. If that ngreeUJent WitS made. thrrt settles it. 1\lr. 1\lA~X. Therp was no stlch ngt·eeruent ns th:tt. Tbe SPE"AKER. The memorv of the Cha!r is no better thnn

tbnt of nl'-ybody else particufat:Iy. but the Chair i-g inclined to think that tile geutleman from Sonth Cin·oliua did ask that both be con~idered together. Anywuy, that is wliat we have been doin~.

:\Ir: M.-\. _r. ThP gentlPmnn from South Carolina asked yesterday thnt they be con!'irlered together.

Tlle APF..1KEit. Jn the fi1·st place the CI:tair will put the motion for tile Jll'£'\ions question.

Tbe previous qne~tion w11s orrlered. l\lr~ r~DEltwoon~ r suggest tbnt even if the onier bnd

been m11de by the House tll:tt the t\YO amendtmmt: be consid­eTed togetiler, yet til<' mot ioo is dh·isible. beca nse the ques­tion wunld he lwfore tlie Houl'le in the same ~hape ns th<1ngh an origiunl motion had been made in which two propositions Wt're invoh·ed.

1\Ir. ~1.-\XX. 1\lr. ~pen1;:et•. tbe-re wns n ·o such request made to-day. to t:unsi<ler tfte t\TO togi'tl>er.

The RI'EA KEIL The Clinil" tbinT(~ tbe· reqnest was mnde. The pnly- f)uestiou in tile mind o.:: the Chnir is whetller be e\"er put tlH:• rt.>qH~t. At nil events. the gentleman frmn- s-outh CHro­lina [Mr. JoHNSON"] did' not ask' that tlley be voted on together.

r: be mnne nny rE>qut>st, it was tJint tlH'Y be <'on;o:;id!'red together. 1\lr. l!'ITI'.G~UALD. Thnt i t'Ile S!IUJl' (JilE'!':tion. Tbe SPEAKEH. 'l'h:tt does not ehunge tlle rule thnt when

tllP.l"e nTe two snbF-'tanti\e tnopo.'iitions in n motion. when tile vole is tal\en tlJP qne~tion mny be divirled. Yon Ulight ~H;ree tc consi<Jier two or three bills togetller, and yet tlley might be votoo upon sepamtely. The gentlem:m f1·om ~onth Cnt·olina [llr. BYR~Fsl asked for n separ<lte vote on the two propol:iitions. Tbc first proposition is on S!'nnte amendment ~u. 1.

l\lr. MAXX. The tit·st \ote would <:ome on the motion of the gentleman from Alabama, would it not?

'l'he ~PF~KEU. Yes. l\Jt·. MAXX. That the House recede nnd concur? The :-:PEA KElt. It C'omes thjs wny: 'l'llnt is a double-bender,

too. The gentleruun from Alabuma lllO\'es that the Honl:ie re­<"ede--

1\lr. MAl\~. From its diRngre£>ment to Senl\te amendment numbered 1. and conrnr in tbe Sennte nm,~ndwent.

1\lr . .ADAMROX. 1\lr. SllC:t ker a pnrlinmentary inquiry. The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. lr. ADAMSOX. If tlle Hou e ::;hould Yote to gh·e tlle Sennte

their mileage. would it not be in ord£>r for us e:·onomi ts then to change our miun.- aud tnke it for tlle two Hou::;es, to pnt our­se!Yes on an eqn:llity't fLnugllter.]

The SPEAKER. Th::~t is uot 11 parliamentary inqniry. The gentleman from A!abnma [Mr. lJNDEinroooj mo-rel:i· to recede from the House dis11greement. :mll--

lHr. MANX. To rerede from the Hon ~ c. amendment to Sennte amendment Xo. l flJHJ. ngree to the Senate amPndmeut; also to reC'ede from the diS:.tgreeruent to amendment .1. 'o. ao and cgree to tlle same.

The SPEAKER. Now, tbP gentleman from Routh Carolina [~Jr. BYRNESl rlemnnjed n seYernnce )f the qne'tioh.

1\lr. UNDERWOOD. :.Mr. Spe_aker, I nsl~ for a . epnrate vote on tlle question to recede and concm. I nsk that the vote as tL whether or Lot tlle House will recede be taken separately frcm the · motion to coueur.

· Tile SPEAKER The gentleman from Alnbnrna O.emnnnR a division ou the question. uud the fit·st part of it to l>e put will be to reeede ft~om the Hou ·e amendment to Senate ttmendment .No. 1. Anu· tnat is all.

1\lr. RYHXES of South Carolinn. Is not n motion for a separate vote a r~ refet•ential motion. Mt•. Hpeaker?

The SPEAKER. I kuow, but this- seem to llln·e four pt·opo!'ll­tions in it. 'The question is on the motion to recede from the

' House nmendment to ;..'eunte amendrneut ~o. l. · The question was takeu, and the" Sveake.r announced thnt tlle noe.., seemed to haYe it.

Mr. KETTNER. Didsion. l\Ir. Speaker. The House di\·iaed'; and tllere \Yere-:-Jyes 103, noes 81. :Mr . .TOH~SO~ of South Carolina. I demand tlle ye:ts and

rrn ys. l\J J'. ~T1e:1 k e1•. Mr. CANDLER. of Mississippi. Air. Speaker. I. demantl the

yeas nnd tHiys. The ~PEAKER. Tbe gentleman fcona South. Carolina [~fr.

JoaNsoNl demands tlle yetiS and uays . The ~·£>as :1 nd nay. wPre or<lf>I'P{f. The question was taken; :md Ulere were-y.cns 125, nays 138,

answered "present '' 6, not Yuti ng 11J!, us follows:

Abercrombie lt.iken Ainey Avis Hailey llPnkcs Hell, Cal. Blackmon Boohet· Hot·chers Britrl'n Bmussard Bnlldi'Y But·gt's.~ llttl"kl'. R. Dak. c·ampllell Car;lway (':ulin Cat·y l hnndler, N.Y. C1lllt'dt C:lnt-k- I·1a._ ("Jaypool Cramton l'lll"l ' V Itnnfot·th l>l.'nt flonohoe I lJ'llkke.r lilttpr·e Eseh EstoDinn_l

YEAS-t2.5. Evana_ Jolmson. r.:-tnh Palreblld J_o ~ n~on.. Wash. Fnlconer hn olD Fan KennNl:V, Conn. Fet·gu son Kettner FrtTi~ Ke.•. Ohia Flu.vd. Ark:. Kindel Fm·dnt->y Kit'l<pntrick l''t·ancls l~itchin Frr:ll' La FoliE'tte Gnlb1~er l.E>P. na. Gnllivau LE>f'. f'a. (;ard J,p-nJ•oot Gi ll! tt Lc>vy Gilmore 1\kCoy (;it tins l\l<'l:uir·e, Okla. Good l\lllhan Goodwin. Ark. lHnnahan Gr-c•t•o. low:1 Muon GrN•ne, Mass. Millt>r Gre:rg 1\Jondell llaJ·cly Moor!7 Ilar·ris ?l)u•·•·ay. Mnss. Ilar·t 1\ltHTa~, Okl'l. l111wley 1\"nlnn .J. 1. Jln.wlen O"II11ir IlC'flin OldliC'Id II c·l!!'C'. ('D P:t !ton, P11. flinl'l,nngli Pa~·no Um·nJI l'latt llumplli'I.'Y, Wash. H:u:.·chtl~ Jacowny Hal•er

Reed llobN-ts, Nev. Rogl't's. Uonse Scott ~l'ldomridge Sinnntt 8mith. ldah<t ~pat l\m:tn StCI'IIPJ"lOil 8tPr>hens. Cal. S~c>\"E'ns, ~Iinn. ~toot 'J'alholt. ~ ld. 'J·avlot·. Ark. 'J'»}·for·. Colo. 'l'll\'IOI', :'\. Y.

~'1~1~/;;[~:. Ill. 'J't·<'aclway rndNhiJI rnrlenvood Ynt'E' Vollmer '\"ol,_,ll'lld "n'o ltf'I'S Wln rro Wins low ""it herspoon

1914. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE.

Adair Adamson Alexander Aswell Baltz Bat·kley Barton Bathrick Bell, Ga. Bowdle Bl'Ock. on Brodbeck Brown, N. Y. Brown, W. Va. Bt·umbaugh Bt·yan Buchanan, Tex. BUI·ke. Wis. Bm·nett Byrnes~....s. C. Byrns. Tenn. Caldct· Candler: Miss. Can· Carter Cline Coady Colliet· Connelly, Kans. Connolly, Iowa Com·y Cooper Cox Cl'Osser Cullop

NAYS-138. Dickinson I >i fendcrfel' Dillon Dixon Donovan Doolittie Doremus Dough ton . Dunn Faison Fess Finley Fitzgerald I<'lood, Va, Fo.· ter Fowler French GardneL' Gamet· Gal'l't>tf. Tt>nn. GRI'rett, 'l'ex. Goeke Gt·anam, Ill. Gray Hamilton, Mich. Hamlin IlUJTison Haugen Hay Helm Hensley Holland Ilou. ton Hughes. Ga. Hull

Jgoc Johnson, Ky. .Tohnson, S.C. Keating Keister Kelley, Mich. Kelly, Pa. Kennedy, Iowa Kinkaid, Nebr. Konop Lesher Lindber~h Linthicum Lloyd Lonergan 1\IcKellat• !lcLau~hlln :MacDo!lald Magnil·c, Nebr. Mapes Mitchell Moon Morgan. Okla. Mo t-rison Moss. W.Va. Nelson O'LNll'Y Padgett Page, N.C. Palmer Pa1·k Petet·s, Mass. Phelan Pou Quin

AN:;WERED "PUESENT "-6.

Rainey Rauch Hayburn Reilly, Conn. Reilly, Wis. Rubey Rucker Rupley Russell Shar·p Sisson Small Smith, Minn. Smifh, Saml. W. Stafford Stephens, Miss. Stephens, Tex. Stone Sutherland Talcott. N. Y. Thomas · 'J'hompson, Okla. 'l'owner Townsend 'Tribble Walker Walsh Watkins Watson W hit ley Williams Willis Woodruff

Butler Glass

PI'Outy Sloan Taylot·, Ala. Rothermel

NO'I! VOTING-164. Allen Fields Langley Powers Anderson FitzHenry Lazai'O · Riordan Ansberry George L'Engle Roberts, MaRs. Anthony Geri'y Lever Sabath Ashbrook Gill Lewis, Md. Saunders Austin Godwin, N.C. Lewis, l'a. Scully Baker Goldfogle J~ieb Sells Barchfeld Gordon Lindanist Shackleford Bamhart Gorman Lobeck Shrrley Bat·tholdt Goulden Loft Sherwood Bat·tlett Graham, Pa. Logue ShrHe Beall. Tex-. Greene, Vt. McAndrews Sims Borland Griest McClellan Slayden Bl'Owne, Wis. Griffin McDermott Sleruo Browning GudgN· McGillicuddy Smith, J. M. C. BrucknPt' Guernsey McKenzie Smith, 1\fd. Buchanan, Ill. Hamill Maddlin Smith, :-J. Y. Burke, l'a. Hamilton, N.Y. l\fabet· Smith, Tex. · Callaway llao'lmond Martin ~tan l t-_7 Cantor· Hat·dwick Merritt Stedmaa Cantrill Hayes Metz Stephens. Nebr. Carew Helvering Montague Steven,;, N.H. Casey Ht>m·y Morgan, La. St1·inget• Clancy Hill Morin Sumners Copley Binds Moss, Ind. Switzet· Covington Dobson Mott Taggart Crisp Howard Mm·dock Ta vPnner Dale ·Hoxwortb Neeley. Kans. Temple DaYt>nport Hu,!!ht>s, W.Va. 'eely, W.Va. Thacher Davis Hulings Norton 'l'11ttle Decker Humohreys, Miss. O'Rt·ien Vaughan Deitrick Jones Oglesby Wallin Dershem Kennedy, R.I. O'Sh::nmessy ·wea ver Dies . Kt>nt Paige, Mass. WciJL>

' Dooling Kiess, ·Pa. Parkt>r Whitact·e Dt·iscoll Kinkead, N.J. Patten, N.Y. Whit<' Eagan Knowland, J. R. Peters, Me. Wilson, Fla. Eagle Korbly Peterson Wilson, N. Y. Edmonds Kreider Plumley Wocds Edwards LaliPrty Porter Young, N. Dak. Elder Langham Post Young, Tex.

So the motion to recede from the House amendment to Senate amendment No. 1 was rejeC'ted.

The Clerk announced the following additional pairs: For the sesswn : 1\1r. BARTLETT with 'Mr. BUTLER. 1\Ir. METZ with Mr. WALLIN. Mr. SCULLY with Mr. BROWNING. Until August 4: Mt·. WEAVER with .Mr. SLOAN. Until further notice: :M.r. HARDWICK with l\Jr. J. R. KNOWLAND. 1\lr. YOUNG of Texas with Mr. A.lNEY. Mr. GORMAN with Mr. KIESS of Pennsylvania. Mr. LAZARO with l\lr. PARKER. 1\fr. SHEELEY with :\lr. :\IADDEN. 1\fr. ROTHERMEL witll ~11· . .AUSTIN. Mr. STEPHENS of ~el>I':l SI\:1 with l\Ir. LEWIS of Pennsylvania. Mr . . GLAss with :\fJ·. ~.;.n;{>:_

Mr. TAYLOR of Alnbn n1~. n. 1~1~ ~Ir. HGGIIES of West Virginia. 1\fr, HUMPHREYS of :'lli~si!5Sippi with Mr. LINDQUIST. Mr. DALE witll :\lr . .l\IARTIN. Mr. SMITH of Texas with hlr. YouNo of North Dakota.

Mr. McGILLICUDDY with l\Ir. GuERNSEY. Mr. STED:r-.IAN' with Mr. PETERS of Maine. 1\lr. DAVENPORT with Mr. J. l\l. C. SMITH. Mt'. CANTRILL with Mr. CoPLEY. Mr. MORGAN of Louisiana with 1\lr. GREENE of Vermont. .Mr. HENRY with 1\lr. HINDS. l\fr. FIELDS with l\lr. LANGLEY. Mr. SLAYDEN with l\lr. BURKE of Pennsylvnnlu . 1\lr. CLANCY with l\!r. HAMILTON of New Yot•k. l\1r. VAUGHAN with .llr. fJHRE\'E. :1\Ir. HowARD with :\lr. 1\lERRITT, Mr. MCDERMOTT with Mr. GRIEST. l\Ir. PATTEN of New York with l\.Ir. NoRTON. 1\lr. Enw ARDS with Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Js1nnd. 1\lr. GOLDFOGLE with Mr. LANGHAM. Mr. SHACKLEFORD with l\lr. ROBERTS of Massachusetts. Mr. SAUNDERS with Mr. PORTE&. Mr. NEELEY of Kansas with Ur. PAIGE of i\lassachusetts. 1\lr. ALLEN with l\lr. BARCHFELD. 1\lr. ASHBROOK with 1\lr. BARTHOLDT. Mr. BARNHART with l\ir . .ANDERSON. l\lr. BUCHANAN of Illinois with Mr. DAVIS. Mr. SIMS with Mr. BROWNE of Wisconsin. 1\lr. CALLAWAY with l\fr. EDMONDS. Mr. CASEY with .Mr. GRAHAM of Pennsyl\ania. l\lr. DEITRICK with Mr. HAYES. .Mr. DERSHEM with !\fr. HULINGS. 1\lr. ELDER with l\lr. KREIDER. Mr. GoDWIN of North Carolina with Mr. dcKENzrE. l\lr. LEVER with 1\lr. l\IOTT. 1\lr. LIEB with :l\lr. LAFFERTY. 1\Ir. MOKTAGUE with l\lr. PLUMLEY. Mr. Moss of Indiana with Mr. SEILS. 1\Ir. SABATH with l\Ir. SWT'fZER. 1\Ir. TAVENNER with l\lr. MORIN. Mr. WEBB with Mr. Wooos. 1\lr. WILSON of Florida· with Mr. TEMPLE. The resnlt of th3 vote was tllen announced as above recorded. Mr. JORNSO); of South Caro!ina. Now. 1\Ir. Speaker-­The SPE~KER Thnt is only one-quarter of the motion of

the gentlem::m from Alnbama. l\lr. FITZGERALD. 1\lr. Speaker, the question being divided

and the House hn>ing refused to recede, the queStion recurs on the motion of the gentleman from South Carolina to further insist.

The SPEAKER. On amendment No. 1. Mr. FITZGERALD. Yes. l\11·. Ul\l)ERWOOD. J.\lr. Speaker, a parliamentary inquiry. T!Je SPF..A.KER. The gentleman will state it. l\lr. UNDERWOOD. At tt.is stnge of the proceedings, the

Honse havi:Jg refused to recede, is that not equivalent to a mo­tion to insist, the previous question having been ordered?

Mr. FITZGERALD. No; the :S:ol:Lse can insist or adhere, and the gentleman from South Carolina bas moved to insist.

Mr. COX. A parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Spe::.ker. 'l'be SPEAKER. The gentlelllan will state it. Mr. COX. Would it be in order to move at this time to in­

struct the conferees to agree to 10 cents a mile? Tbe SPEA.KER It would not. Mr. MANN. It would not be in order at any time, because the

House bas an amendment for 5 cents a mile, and you could not ir:.struct the conferees contrary to the House amendment.

'l'be SPEAKER. The question is on the motion of the gen­tleman from Soutll Carolina to further insist on House amend­ment to Senate amendment No. 1.

The question was taken. and the motion was agreed to. The SPKI\KER. The question now is on the second portion

of the motion of the gentleman from Alabama [l\1r. HA.RRIS] as to nruendment No. 30.

Mr. BYRr-.."'ES of South Carolina. :Mr. Speaker, a parliamen­tary inquiry.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will s~ate it. Mr. BYRNES of Sont~ Carolina. Mr. Speuker, would it be

in order to amend the motion of the gentleman ~rom Alabama­to snhstitute 5 cents-so that the same proyision would fl{1p!y to the House as the Senate:

The SPEAKER. No; the motion of the gentleman from Ala­bnma was to recede from the House disagreement to Senate atneudment 30 and concur in the same. At this stage of the pro­ceedings, even if the previous question had not been ordered, that motion takes precedence of any other motion.

l\fr. GARNER. A parljamentm:y inqniry, hlr. Speaker. The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. Mr. GARNER. If the question should !Je decided. that the

House would recede, would not it be in order to concur with an

1.1464 ... CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOURE. JULY 1,

~mcnflment making the mileage 5 cents for Members of the House?

:\lr. l\IA~N. I cnll the gentlem11n's attention to the fact thnt 1 the previous question bus been ordered, which cuts out amend­ment.

The SPEAKE·R. The Chair was going to 8tflte thnt him­self, if the gentlemfln from Illinois bud not anticipated bim. 'l'he qnPstion iR on tht> motion of the gentlemnn from Alatutma to recede from Senate amendment No. 30 and concur therein.

Tlw <1uestion was tnken; aud Oil H <iinsil>n (demanded by Mr. llAKER) tllere were 68 <~yes and 79 noes.

SL the motion was lost. The SPEAKER. Tlte. question recurs on the motion of the

gentleman from ~outh Carolina to fnrther insist on the dis­agreement to SenHte nmendment ~ 'o. ao.

Tlw question was taken; nnd on :1 dh·tsion (demanded by 1\Ir. JoHNSON of South Carolina) there were 80 ayes and 66 noes.

~o the motion wns agreed to. _ ~lr. JOH~ROX of South Carolina. Mr. Speaker. I move that

the House H8k for a further conference witt the Senate. Tlle motion wns a~reed to. The ~PI·:~-\ KEH. The Clerk will nnnounce the conferees. 1\Ir. CLARK of Florida. Mt·. Speaker, a parliamentary in­

quiry. , T!.le SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. :\Ir. CLARK of Flo1·ida. Would a motion to instruct the

conferees he in order? 'l'l1P ~PEAKF.R It ~Pems to the Chair that the last vote is

equivalent to an instruction. .1r. :\lAX~. Has the Rpenker named the conferees? The SPEAKER The Clerk was al.Jont to annotDce them. 1\Tt·. ("LARK of Florida. Mt·. Speaket'. I rnon that the Hou!'e

conferees he instructed to concur with the Senate and strike out all mileage.

.lr. M.A.:\~. I make the point of orjer that that motion is not in order.

The SPEAKER. The Chair thinks it is not. f\Tr·. F'.- L('OXFR. :\lr. Spenke-r, a pnrliHmentary inquiry. The SPEAKER. The gentleman will stHte it. ;.l r. l•'A.LCO.:\ ER. \\·ould it not be in order to fn~trnct the

conferees to give no further consideration to the ~enate mile­age nt this time. bnt to insist that the Honse determine nruend­n1ent Ko. 30 11s the Hon.e shall see tit? In other words. wlly do not the House :\lewbers settle the rnilen·~e fM the House mHI let tbe Ren11te do wb:1t it ple:tse. In the Senate mile:1ge~ It cnn be done by considering the amendments separately.

Tte F:PK-\KEIL Bec·nuse it tnkes a stc.ttute to do it. One Hou e can not 11:1-s a law by itself.

:\ rr. FA LCO~EH. Of course. the Sennte would have to ngree. I nppreciate tbnt it tnkes the two Houses to ennct a lnw. but I thiuk the Senate \Yould gil'e the Bou e the right to settle Its owu mile··ge <lllrl c-oncur out of courtesy to the House. The Hou ·e should reduce its own mileage instead of insisting -Qn rooneing the Senate mileage first.

~It·. CLAUK of Florida.. Mr. Speaker, what became of my -nlotion?

The SPEAKER The Chair recognized the gentleman from Florirla. nod l.le nlso rec·ognized the gentleman from Nashington to mnke a pHrlillmentnry inquiry.

Mr. CLAllK of :I•'loridn. . nd the gentlcm:m from Washing­ton proee9{1Ptl to rnnl;:e a motion.

1\Ir. 1\LL\~. The gentlem1m from Florida mRde the motion. -.anrl I mnrle the point of order, and the Chair sustained the point of onl{'r.

Mr. CL.A RK of Florida. I made a motion that the conferees be instructed.

The SPBAKEit. Tbnt is in tbe nnture of an amendment. 'Will tbe gentleman ~htte his whole motion.

l\Ir. CLAfi.K of Floricta. T:bat the conferees on the pn rt of th{' Hon.·e lip im::tructl'd. as the s{'nse of tbe Honse, to a.~ree with thE:' confPt'ees on the part of the Senate that all mileage be ~tricken out of tbe bill.

1\lt·. :\lAXX. l\Jr ... peal;:er. I mnke the point of order that the gel)tlem:,n's motion i~ not in order.

The SPEAKETI. ThE:' f"bair will hear the gentlem:m. l\11·. i\lA:\'~. :\lr. Speaker. wh:lt i8 in issne bPtween the two

Honses"? The Hou:e c·ttn not in.-rruct tbe c·onferpes 1o flo snmPthing which the C'OnferPPS conld not do without in~trilc­ti.on!.'l. \Vhnt is nt issm• between the t~n bodies i~ tbP qne~tion of the amount of mileage. Tbe eonfei'Pes c:m not excee<i rile nmonnt Dnmed b.v the Senate. nnd they cnn not ·prol'ide less tbnn tlle nmount nnurec'l in the Hom.;p amendmeut. 'Xur c;lll the Honse it. Plf nmend itl'1 own ·amendment. I will refer the Speaker to Jefferson's 1\Ia.nual--

The SPEAKER. The gentiE:'man need not take time to do thnt. becnn~P the gentleman h; eot·re~·t.

1\Jr. 1\IAXX Thnt wottld . Pem to settle the question. 'l'be SPEAKER Tl.le Chnir tbiu!·s tb11t the motion of the

gentleman from Floridn Plr. CLARK J is not in urdE'r·. bPcan~e it Is in the nnture of an amendment. The Clerk \YiJl unnotlllt'e tbe confE:'rE>es.

l\Ir. FALCOXER. Mr. Rpeaker-­'l'be Cle1·k reHd ns follows:

MeRsrs .. JoHNsoN of South Carolina, BYRNS .of Tennessee, and Goon of Jowa. · .

Tbe SPEAKER. For what purpose does the gentleman from Washington rise?

!llr·. FALCO~ER To submit a p:ulinmentnry inquiry. The SPEAKEit. The ~entiPmnn '\Yill !':tntp it. Mr. FALCO~ER. Mr. Speal\er. I wunlrl like to nsk If it

wonld not be in order to in~tJ·nc·t the conferees to br·ing in a 10-cent mileage for House l\lembers'!

The RPEAKER Tbnt is eqniY;•I~:>nt to an amendment. ~nd th~ ' stage for 1tmendments 11110 t>\·erytbing elsp iR pnsserl. The mutter is conclnrled for this pnrticnlnr time. It m:ty cowe np ngaia.

1\Ir. BGHKE of South Dakota. l\lr. Speaker, a parliamentary inquiry.

The RPEAKER. The Irentleman will state it. Mr. RUHKE of South Dalwtn. I lmuw tlw ~penkpr wnntA ·to

be rig-bt. 11hd be usually i~. but in answering the pn rtia­ruentm·y inCJuiry of the 2:entlem:tn from Wasbin~ton [:\Ir. l<'AL· coNt~Rl I think the Spe;1ker mi. nnderf;tood the status of the proposition that tlle gentiPmnn w;1s euuenl'oring ttJ S11hmit, wl.licb was with reference to whether or nut it \Yonld be in ot•tler to instruct the <'onferePs a, to thE:' rntP of mileage upou this amendment. There hns been no :~mendment by the HPnRe to the amenrtment of the Sen ·1te. HS tbPre Will'! on amenclmPnt ~o. 1. which referA to the mile:t~e of the Reunte. The ~<"ntle­man was eurlell \'Oring to get rt>cognition from the Spea kPr when l.le was naming the conferees. but wnA only a hlP to submit Lis question after they werP unmed. and the Spenker held th:1t the 111otion to in!':truct would he e(]uh-alent to un c.1mendment. mtd, therefore. it would not be in order.

The RPEAKER. There was a time when his motion might ba•e been in order.

l\lr. llUHKE of South Dakota. When was thnt"? The SPEAKER WbPn the gentleman from South Carolina

[:\.Jr. JoHNSON] m:trle I:! is motion. If be bud gotten in then, lli~ motion might poSl·ibly l:!n ,.t> been in unlet".

l\Ir. BURKE of South Dakota. He was trsrng to get the floor.

'1 be SPEAKER. Oh. thnt wns two hours ngo. ~lr. FALCO~ER. 1\fr. Spenker. when the motion of the gen·

tlE:'man from Florida was ruled out of orde1· I bad the recogni· tion of the Chair.

Mr. 00~0\.AX. 1\Jr. Spenker. a point of or<ler. Tlle SPF..AKEU. Ob, the Chair bas a right to listen to a par·

liamenbtry inquiry. ~lr. D0.:\0\'.-\X. But the gentleman has not submitted a pm··

Jiamentary inquiry. The SPEAI,EH. The Cbnir thinks he h.as. The gentleman

from Wnshin~ton will ]1l'OCeecl. l\Ir. FALCOXER Mr. Spenker. when the motion of the gen­

tleman from Florida wns rulerl out of onlPr. I h·trl the recc;~ni­tion of the Chnir, ;1nd pre. enterl this propo~ition to tbP Chnit· nnrl was interrupted by 8e,·ernl ~ll:'mbers on the floor, and mean­wbi le the conferees were nnmed.

l\Ir. DOXOYA.K l\lr. Rpeilker, I demand the regular order. There i8 no hu. iness before the Hou. e.

:\lr. SPEAKER Oh. the Chair recognizPrl 'the gent1E>mnn to submit a parliamentary inquiry, and thnt was rail be was e\·er recog-nized for.

l\lr. FALCOXER. The gentlemnn ~rom Flm'idn Plr. CLARKl sni£1 thHt I hilrl tried to mnl\e n motion. 1111tl I h:trl the reC'og· nition of the Chair after the gentl~m:m 'fr·( m Flnrilln--

Tbe SPEAKER. The gentlPJlll'n had "thp r~co~Hition of the Chair to m:1ke a pnrli nmentnr-y inqnfr.v. 1'h<lt i~ Hn£> thing. The rec-ognition to mal\e a motion is ~m entire:y diffet-ent thiug. - It WilS not offered .:lf the .prop~;· -time. '

!\Jr. RrR~\:E of South D: lwtn. 1\Tr. ~penl..- r. l~t me cnll the n ttention of the C'hn i r to the fnct thn t be •t:• tea tba t he ·had reC"ognizerl the gentlenwn from Florirln to nlllH~ :1 motion. 1tnd that be bnd reco~rnized the p;entlenwn from WHs1llngton for tlle purpose t)f mnking :1 pnrli:1mentary in(]nii-y.

The ~pv' rn<:n. Th·' t i~ px·tctly t'OI'I'~<'t. l\Ir. BURKE of South Dnkota. And the gentl(>mn.n ft•om

W11Sllingtuu \\' il S tryiug to m::ke b1R titntion. nml the pnrlht­wentarian called the Chail"s attention to the fact thttt he had

~191:4.

~declnrecl the motion ·of the ~nt1emnn :from F11nridn out.of ·order. . ·sustsi uing a point of o.rder uwde by: tlle...geotlemun f.rotn IlUuuis.

The RPK-\ KEH. That is correct. Mr. B'CllKE of South Dalwta. .And then the gentleman from

Wasllingtou -continued seeking recoguition as :tll-e Chait·1.nnwed • the conferees.

The SPElAKER The ·gcn-.:lemrm from Wnshin~ton agn1n· ro~P lfor -n pnr.liameutary inquiry. and the. Ch<tir nnswered biw. nnrt then ordered tlle Clerk to announce the conferees. w.hieh lle dirt.

l lt the Cbn:.ir bnd •entertained tbe motion ()f tlle_ gentleman from Wal'hington. •it "Would hnYe been ag~tinRt tbe pr<tctiQe of thP '1-Iouse to inf'truct the conferees at · t.llttt time, · because . the conferee~ bnd been nnnwd.

1\fr .. DONOVAJ."\. Now, Mr. 1Speaker, 1:!an we have _tbe ·regular order?

INDIAN APPROPRIA'fiON BILL. I

Mr. ·STEPHE. ~_s of Te.s:ns. Mr. Spenker, I demre to take from the SpeHker's tnble the bill H. H. 12G7D. the Indian appl'opri­

l ation biil. nrM a~k tbnt tile Rouse d-isngree to •nll of the··sen~te • ameudments tlH~Teto nnu nRk for n conference.

· Nr. MAXS. -Mr. ·sr,euliez·. H• pm·liarueutary inquiry. Th~-s'PEAI{Ell. TlH' ~entlf'mun will BtAte .it. 1\It·. l\IANX I~ this hill on the Speaker's tuble? I thought Jt

n s on tlle Uniou Calend;l r. i Tbe··SP.EAKEll. It -is on tbe' Union Calendar. Mr. i\.IA::'\N. · Then r;the gentlewun can not take ·:it off -the

Spenker's tnble. ' Mr. ·'STEI'H&"\S of Texas. 1Mr. ·spenker. I move thnt the

HonRe -yesolre jt~<>elf into the Committ-ee of the'.i\Vbole Honse on tlle state of tbe C'Uiou for lhe purpose .of considet~ing the Indian

·appropriation bill and the · Senate amendments .thereto. The SPEAKER Tbe •questio:l· js on lhe motion of tll~gentle~

mnn frow Tex11s tb11t tbe House resolve itself into tbe - :Cum~ umi:ttee of 'tlle i'Wbole House on the ·state of :the Union -for . the

purpose of considering tlle Indian upprop~:iation btll. 1\lr. HARIU~O~. :\Jr. StJeJtl•er. a parli:tmeotury ·inquiry. TlJe SPEAKER ~ The gentleman will stnte ·tt. . Mr. HA'lllliSO')r. I · desire to offer .u wotion to concur in ·one

llf the-Senate amendments. I just «\vaot to know the stutns of tlJe proposition. Is it in order -now to ·m:t ke u :motion before we go iuto tbe Comrn1ttee of :the W.bole Honse on the .state of tbe l.Juion. •to·concur in tbnt·Sennte Pmendruent?

Tbe SPEAKER Tbe Chnir thinks. not. Thls_ hill iS. on the 1'Union . Ca~endar, nnd the~ proceedlng is :like that. oLany ,ofuer

bill on thnt c:tlend:~r. IJ.'he motion lW:ts .agreed ·to.

. Accordingly .the Hnu~e resoh·ed itself into the Committee of the Whole HouRe on the Rt:t te of tbe Union for tbe <>ousiderution of the bill H. .R. 1257D. the Indian appropriation ,bill, with Mr. UNDEBWOnD in .the chair.

The CH.d.lll:U.d.X :The Honse is in Committee of the Whole .:. House on .the stnte of -the Union for the purpo ·e of considering ;_ tile bill U. 1{. l2G79. -the title of wbich the Clerk ,Will report. ·

Tbe CleJ:k read as follows: An act (B. R. 12u79) making- ·a-ppropTiatlon!; for the -current and con­

tingPnt expen~;es of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, fot· fnllllliog treaty' &tlpttlations with vat·ions Indian tribes, and for other Pl\L"poses, for the fiscal ·year end in.~ June 30, 1015.

Mr. -STEPHEXS of Texns. 1.Ir. Chairman . . I ask unllhimous consent thnt tbe first reading of the bill be dispensed with.

The CIIAIIL\l.AX . The _geritlemnn from Tex.:ts r.sks un;mi­= mons consent that the first rending of the bil t ba cli,s.Jlerised wttll. .Tbe Chair does uot thin!· there is any first ·reud;ug of 'the amend­·· m-ents. The Ch<tir thinks the procedure would be to retid tbe

nwenrtments as they come. Does the gentleman ·desire to us~ nmnoimous consent. that _general <leb :~ te be closed?

l\lr. · ST.EPBE);S of Tex<'S. Mr. Chairman, I ask unauimou~ , con.~ent that general dehnle be closed.

The CB~-\ Ill:\l.A..."'\. The gentleman from Texas ns.k:s unani­mous consent th<lt allgeneral d-C'bate be now closed nnd the bill be consid£>red under .the fh-.e-rninnte rule. Is there objection 'i

Mr. M.AXX :\Jr. Cbnkmun. I object. IJ.'lJe C.Il.dllUIA!'\. The g-entleman from Illinois objects. l\lr. ~-L"'\S. .Mr. -chairman. the gentlemnn asks unanimous

-consent to dispense with the first reading of .the . Senate amend­. ruents!

Ur. STEP.1IE~S of 'Texas. Lhave asked unanimous con ent fot· that pn.rpose.

The CILHR.\LAN. Tbe ,gentleman from "'Texas asks .unani­mom;; consent to · dispense with tile · first reading -of the Senate amendments. .Is 'there objection? . [..liter a pause.] The ·cha.ir

... hears none. nnd it Js so onlered. 1\lr. HARRISO:X. .Mr. Chnirrunn. before going Jnto cthls mat­

J;er, I .desire to .sub.Jnit _a. p;,illiilluentary· iqqwry.

·Tbe CHAiR~lA~. 'Tbe trenUenum will :stHte it. •.Mr. HAllRISON. ·Are these Senate nntendments to be co.n­

sidPred in tbe tOrder in whkb they nre in ilie bJll? ·The CHAIR.:\L\.N. The Clet·k will .report the amendments

.aft('r geoerul debate tis ·clused in the -.order ln wbicb tlley come in .the -bill.

.1\lt·.- STJ!.."PB.E~S of Texas. Mr. Chairman. tbe Sem1te rece-h·ed this bill from the House in February. It wns retnrned witlJin rtbe hlst week. and hltS been reported and &ant to the Commi1tee on ,lndinn Affairs swd reported back w-ith lnstructiom~ to dis­ngree to all 'the Sennte amendments nnd ask for n <'onference upo.n the same. We .find thnt tlJe Re11nte h~ne ;trldf'd to tbe bill, in ronnel numbers. more than $~ 000.000 in various items. as foll{)WS: lncreHse 'in old jtems. $1 .2fi:l,it25. T!Je:r ha \'e a udell new items •in the bill amounting to $1.304.714. nutking n total

' .increase of -$2,64&239. ~rhe Seuu.te -decJ:eased $341.500, leaving a uet -inc.:reaF:e @f $2.306,730.

1\lr. BUill\.E of Sooth Dakota. Mr. Chairman, will the .ge.n­" tlem:m ·yield?

hlr. ' El'l1 11~PHE~8 of Texas. I oo. ,Mr. ·BURKE of Sm1th Dllkotn. Wben tlte gentleman stntes

the inr-r.e<tses ·.in tbe .bi II I, do no.t ·tllinl~ be te~l;es into consideJ·a­doo one amenrlment in the bill. which ·pl'OJIOSE'S to &end to the ConTt of 'Chtirus tbe Creek equalizatjon Hem. wb:icb wi~ht l'esnlt -in a · judgment of $4.000.000. ·Be evidently .has ·tH>t taken tbnt 1in-to co.nRidemtion in his stnteUJent?

·Mr. STEPH.El"\S -of Texas. I b;n~e not tnk-en that .into con­sider~ttion or a further nwtter in contrm·ersy, tbe nmonnt of woney that might .be paid· .the Choctn-w and Chic.kas.nw Indians per capita and also tbe per c~1pita t payment tb<lt i!;; pro-poRetl to be pnid to tbe Cherol~ee 1'\Mion. t.hnt wonld P<Jsslbly nuwnnt to $5,000.000 In the whole if. we nrtopt tbe .Senat-e Hrnendment. but the::se amendments wentioned by we are -direct aprn·opri<.t tions.

Mr. 1\lA.N:X. .Mr. Cba,irmun, .t:tke. for inst:.mre; nmendment Xo. 131, in reference to the Ct·eek tribal funds, oa proposi.tion to equalize tbe p~ty .to $800.

l\Ir. STEPHE~S -of Texns . . T.hat ts the first .one. 1 believe. Mr. MAXX. Tbut :would .tnke about $3.000000. T·hnt is a

direct appropriation. although it -does not .-specify the 11mom1t . 1\lr. _.STEL'HENS of ·rexns. That is correct . ..Tllut was ·not

taken into the estiruu.te at all. Mr. -.M.AN'-~. So that tbe gentleman's estimnte of tbe .amount

added by tbe ·.Sen(tte does not.tak-e inJo 00nsiderntion these- ap­[)l'O!JriUtions which are indefinite. and whic.h we know will ~Lpp.re­priate many millious .. of doihu·s.

Mr. STEPHE~S of Texas. Yes; thnt is correct. And I will state .. to the gentleman we only take the -awonnt tnken by -;.he Senttte Jn dollars and eents and nottba t.accrui.og fi·om .new legis­lation in ,tl)e bilL

Mr. B'CUKE of South Dnkota. If the gentleman wm a!Jow me to suggest. flmenrtment No. 131 wo,uld p1·obahly pay to the Indinns about $3.000.000. ThHt is ·.for .DJmJey to 'their CI'edit .in tbe Treasury; they are entitled to that. The umeudwent Xo. l~f1 might result in n jmtgment HmotmtiQ.g to UParly $-!.000.000. i'he first amendment is to pay money w_hic.h belongs to tile J!ndlans.

.l\lr. STEPHE~S of Texas. The gentleman is correct. Mr. M1JltllAY of· Oklahoma. W:hich one do.es tllP gentleman

refer to? Mr. BURKE- of South Dnlmta. Tlle Creek f'qun lizn tion Hem.

Amendment No. 131, 11ro>iding for tlJe pHyJlleut to the lndinns on nn ,.$800 payment. •would tuke from the Treal'1-lll';\' tbe mouey to the credit of the- lntliuns, and i.hHt is aoont $:1.000.000. Tbe otbet· Hmendruent -ruigbt result in a ; judgment of nearly $4,(100_000.

Mr. l\H.iRRAY of Oklahoma. . No; the gentlenmn _knows it would .not result in that.

Mr. 'BURKE of South Dnkota. I only have the f:tntement ()f the counsel for the lndic1ns .themselres, and tbey wake tbe claim it will tnl{e about $4.000,000.

1\lr . .MPRllAY of Okluhru:ua. You cnn !'aiC'ulate the diffel·­ence between_$800 and $1.0·!1 would be $"2-11, nnd there nre only 18,000; and if you will multiply !8.0(10 by 241 you will see .lt .will not amount to more tbnn half a million dollars.

J\Ir. -B'CRKE of South Dakotu. ·Tes: it will. .Mr. STEPIIEXS of Te.s:~ts. Mr. Speaker. l bm·e not henrd

op}losition but to two items in this bill-one the ;,'\li~sissippl CboC'tuw question "and the other as to the Creek equalization question.

Mr. STAFFORD. ·Will the gentleman yield? .Mr. STEPHE~S of Tex;ts. Yes. Mr. STAFFOHD. I .wish to direct -the gpnt1£>m'"n·s attention

to nmendment numbered 13 of tlJe Senate striking ont -that pro­. vjsion of .the "'HotlRe _wbiclJ reqnires a C'i\'il-::;et'Yice examinatiQD of teachers connecte~ "'ith the Indian !3Cbool service .

•

11466 ·coNGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE. JULY .1,

When that amendment was before the House it was contested by me ancl a number of other gentlemen, who did not believe it was right to require teachers who for years bad been in the Indian school service to be ousted under the guise of a civil­sen-ice exaruina tion. I would like to know whether the House is going to have an opportunity. in case the Senate -conferees should recede, to vote on thls amendment striking out that pro­vision?

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. Mr. Chairman, in answer to the gentleman, I can state, if I am on that conference, I would be willing personally to say that I would bring back any amend­ment that any gentleman in good faith thought should be brought back to the House.

Mr. STAFFORD. So far as I am concerned, it the gentle­man \Vill agree to the Senate amendment striking it out, I will have _ no further interest in the provision. But if the Senate should recede and the gentleman should concur in that position. then I would like to have a separate -vote. because when this amendment was under consideration in the House last it was just a few minutes before the House as a body went over to attend the memorial exercises in the Senate over the remains of Senator Bacon. There w&·e Members in this House who wished to be beard, but were absent temporarily because of those exercises. I think it is owing to the House that if the Senate should recede and allow this pro>ision to remain we be gh·en an opportunity to contest that once more in the House, and I would like to know whether we will have that oppor-· tunity.

1\.lr. STEPHENS of Texas. I will state to the gentleman again that if any gentleman here desires the committee should not pass upon any amendment that they point out I would be willing to disagree to it and bring it back to the House. My object is to get this bill to conference and agree upon e>erything we can, and the contested items could be brought back to the House for further action.

1\lr. STAFFOHD. Of course the gentleman recognizes that we can mo•e now to concur in this amendment. · 1\fr. STEPHENS of Texas. The gentleman from Mississippi [Mr. HARRISON] is in the same position.

Mr. BUUKE of South Dakota. Mr. Chairman, I want to keep the record straight, and state as to the Creek equaliza­tion amendment, No. 137, if there should be a recovery on a $240 basis, that is the difference between $1,040 and $800, as the gentleman from Oklahoma [l\Ir. l\luRRAY] suggested--

1\fr. STEPHENS of Texas. I understand. 1\lr. BURKE of South Dakota. If there are only 18,000 In­

dians, it would be $3,320,000; but what I was figuring on was that there are about 20,000 Indians, which would make the amount something o•er $4,000,000. I was correct when I said it was about $4,000,000.

1\Ir. MANN. I hope the gentleman will get that information to our friend from Oklahoma [Mr. MURRAY].

1\Ir. STEPHENS of Texas. The matter of the regulation of the Choctaws is of such great importance that I am sure it wHl be returned to the House before any action is taken in the conference committee. And if there are any other amend-

'ments I would be glad to bear from any gentlemen present if they desire a separate -vote on them. This makes three, I belie>e.

1\.!r. MANN. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask generally with reference to the bill. The gentleman ~;efers to having these amendments returned to the House. The Senate has inserted a large number of very unusual amendments in this bill. Does not the gentleman think that this is the best way to have the bill considered. amendment by amendment, in this committee now. instead of leaving the conferees to the tender mercies of the Senate conferees when it comes to be a mere matter of trading?

1\Ir. STEPHENS of -Texas. Would not the gentleman think that the custom followed by the House is the better one, to send all of this appropriation bill-and there are 168 amend­ments here-to conference and see what can be done there first before it is taken up from the House.

l\fr. 1\fAN~. I would think that would be the proper pro­cedure if these items were increases in amount, or if they were amendments such as ordinarily occur in appropriation bills. But here is amendment after amendment inserted by the Senate in this bill, which no one in this House will claim ought ever to ha •e been put in the bill, e\"en if they ought to be enacted into law.

1\II'. STEPHENS of Texas. I am aware of that fact, and regret Yery much that they are in the bill.

1\Ir. 1\IANN. It 11laces the conferees on the part of the House in a yery unpleasant position if they go into conference without any previous discussion or action in the House.

•

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. Will the gentleman, then, please point out some of these various amendments to which be ob­jects?

Mr. 1\IAI\~. I hope to do so as we proceed in the committee tl::.ough I would be willing to s~ggest some of them now. i would like to ask the gentleman a question in reference to these re>ol>ing appropriations. That is not a matter that we are wholly ignorant about, as I find we are about most of the amendments.

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. I find they claim in the report made by the Senate committee to the Senate that they have increased that appropriation $300,000. That is not correct. This ·is the language they used :

For the purpose of encouraging industry nnd self-support amonl? the Indians and to aid them in the culture of fruits, grains, and other crops, appropriated by the House $400,000-

That is true-Allowed by the committee In the sum of $100 000 a decrease o• $300,000. ' t 1.

That is not true, for the reason that I find, under the head of " Montana": For support and civilization of Indians at Fort Peck Agency, Mont., the sum of $100,000; for the Black­feet Reservation, $100,000, and for the Flathead Reservation, $100,000.

That makes $300,000. And that puts it back to the $400.000 that they originally appropriated. And, then, for support and civilization of the confederated tribes- and bands under 'Varm Springs Agency (Oreg.) lleserva tion, $100,000.

Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. I will say to the gentleman if be will permit, that they have added about $1,000,000 and reduced the lump-sum appropriation $300,000.

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. And the other item is Utah-for support and civilization of the Confederated Bands of Ute In­dians, $250.000.

It is only a decrease upon paper; in fact, they have added about $GOO,OOO to the appropriation.

Mr. MANN. The $400,000 item that the gentleman refers to is amendment numbered 19. No; that is $500,000.

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. I have -not that before me. I was rending from the report made by the Senate committee to the Senate. I will find it in a moment.

Mr. MANN. Well, all through this bill--Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. Here it is; line 21, page 15 : I<'or the purpose of encouraging industry and self-support among the

Indians, and to aid them in the culture of fruits, grains, and othel' crops, $400,000.

The Senate cut that down to $100,000, and claimed, as they state in the report, that they have thereby saved the Govern­ment $300,000.

Mr. MANN. That brings up the very question that I wanted to bring to the attention of the gentleman. Amendment num­bered 28 reads " $400,000," but is reduced to $100.000; but that does not change the states of that fund; and under the provi­sion of the House that fund may be expended with a provision for its repayment to the United States on or before June 30, 1925, br.t it is not made a revolving fund.

Mr. STEPHEXS of Texas. That is correct. 1\lr. MANN. That was stricken out in the House. Thereupon

the Senate reduces that amount in that item and puts the_ same thing in half a dozen or so other places in the bill, and makes each one of those a revolving fund. In other words, the department-and it is the same department that bas the Recla­mation Service in it-having seen bow recklessly extravagant the Reclamation Service has become and how foolishly they have expended their money where Congress bas not reset·vecl the right of appropriating it from year to year, now wants to get possession of a large fund and ha•e it repaid to them with permission to them to pay it .out without reappropriation by Congress. In other words, we would ha•e nothing more to say about it for 10 years to come-until 1925. Now, what does the gentleman from Texas think about that proposition?

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. I will say that the gentlemfl n is correct in his statement. I think the other body is entirely wrong, for the further reason that this is a lump-sum appro­priation that could be used for the benefit of all the Indians in all parts of the United States. In the way they have it in this amendment, only $100.000 would be used in that way, while $900,000 is specifical1y appropriated to certain States.

1\Ir . . 1\IANN. And it is a reyolving fund be ides? Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. Yes; without interest. 1\lr. MANN. Let us ee. We have a proposition now pend­

ing in the House, shortly to come up, possibly to-morrow, be~ cause of the gross extravag::mce and foolish expenditures in the Irrigation Service, to have the Government advance the public money to go to those who go on the public lands in the

'

1914. CONGRESSrow-ATI -REUORD-- n-o USE: _. 11467 Irrigation Sf'r"1ee nnd bnl"e them pny it hflck In 10 y-enrs' time without Interest. We hnve ntrinus proposition~ pen<llng he­fOre Congress to hnve the Go,·ernmt>nt ~uh·nnce to the f;tl'lllt>J'S nnd other peo[tle money, with intf'l"l:-';'t. ~mv. b?re iR H propo-si­tion that first eomes to n yote in the Honse. to LHH·e the Gon-'rn· ruent nd~i1nce money to the I11tiinns for stock r·ui!-'in~ anfl (•tl.u'r pur·poses thnt Hre presumed to lw profitable. withnnt intf're~t. I would like to lmow whether the g~ntlemnn thinl\s we ou~ht to go into the busines« of ~,d,·ancing htrge amounts of mmwy to llllybOfly fot· their 11rofit '"lthont exacting any interest what­ever for th use of the money?

Mr. STEPHEXS of Te:xHs. I n_gree with tbe gc>ntlcm:m ns to thnt, :mrt will stnte- mJOthel~ thing tbPy baYe 1lone. 111 tbat s: tme it~m. in li ne~ HI tn 1~. t1Jt>y h<ne striC'Iam out a pro\"i..:ioh which protects the Tteasury to a certnlu extent. That pron­siou is umendment numbered 2!). nnrl reads as follows:

A nrl prm:itl&l alRo, That not to excrl'd lj:r:iO.OOO of thP nmnnnt hC'rPin npprop1·!atPd sl r.ll bE' cxpf'nfled on any one rcsen•ntlon or- for llle bene­fit of nny one tribe of Indians.

Now, it nppenrs that by strildng tuat ont, they tnten<'led to specinlir.e, ns tiley h•n·e done else-\vher~ in thi« hill, and gi,·e the appropriation to certain ~tates nud ·cert ·; in IHdinns. ThPs.e lnuJp-stml approprintions ou.rzht to be- nnfler tbe control of the Imlilm nure11u. nuo not uullf'r tlle <'lireetion of r ·ongress. n:;: is prop<>sed by tilis bill. I ·will S<IY to the geutlemHn fmther thnl' I cert:tinly slul11 not agree to tilat without referring it back to the House. .

Mr. MAXX I see a numbE>r of dnims inserted in this hill, contrary to the prnctice of tile Houge nnd lhe rules of the Sen:tte. Hns this bill bPc·ome ~l claims hill?

M1·. STEPHEXS of 'Texas. The genti~Bnm is nwnre thnt iu tlw Rf'nate, mllf'1'"s some Seunto1· <'foes not w<~ut the- chlim put iu; or if it is n clai!ll of a ,·ery popnlnr Senlltor or ::-omf'tlllng thnt they dislike to objec·t to, tile d:lims go through, wllile the uther~ hnYe a point of order raised against them and they are not put in tlle hill.

l\Ir . .M.A.~:;'~;. I see a number of nmendments nre proposed to start in nud build gyrunashmH• for the Jnrlians. I_ hnve nlwa~·~ snppn!':E'O tilnt the Illdians were quite · nthle-tic :Jnti e<qlnblt> of exercising out of doors. What is the objeet of further: injtlr­ing tlleir health by building gymnasiums for thew? [L:.tugLl­ter.]

:\lr. STEPHE~S of Texns. I believe in one item in thP di~­trict of the gentleman from Knn:--;as r ~h·. CAMPBELL l there is au :lllJll'Opria tion of $30.000 foi· thn t PllrJlOSe. It is sa icl to be neces:ary to bu,·e it in the Haskell Institute.

:.\Ir . .:\l.A:;\JX. There is that item for the Hasl{ell Institute. nn<l there is -one for a gynmnsinm nt $2!1.000 at :\lonnt Piensnnt. Mich .. nnd there lire se•eml others of tile same sort elsewhere throughout the bill.

:\Jr. STEPHB.."XS ·of Texn~. The gentleman. then. woul<l ob­jeet to gymnal-'inms and wonl<l <'lesire to have items on that subject broug-ht b<1ck to the Honse?

l\lr·. C.-\MPRELL. 1\Ir. Cb:1irmnn. I can not be ncc11Fe<'l of beiu:; responsible for tllut, because I opposed that in my own committee.

l\lr. STEPHEXS of Texf!s. Thnt is ·my remembrnnce~ 1\fr. :\Lo\XX. I certninly was not nccusing any :\lember <>f

the House of that gross extrnvnganre. l\Ir. CA~IPRELL. I thought the gentleman fl'om Texns Dlr.

~TEPHKNsl referrecl the nwtter to me, and by that reference . I was bel<'! responRihle for it.

l\lr. STEI'IIJ<~XS of Texns. I knew it wns a gross nbnse.. 1\Ir. C..UIPBELL. I deny that I .urn in uny ·way responsible

for it. 1111'. STAFFORD. Mr. Chairmnn. will the gf'nflemnn ~'iPld ? ­Mr. STEPHEXS of TexuR. Yes: I yielu to tbe gentleman. Mr. ~T.-\FFOHD. I notice th::-ong:lwnt nmny of the nmPnd-

ments introduct><l hy the Rennte a studied purpose to gin• con­trol of the expenditures of tllese YHrious sums to the C(lllllllis­sionel· of ln<li:m Aff:tirs in plac-e. as formerly. of the Re(·retary of tile Intet·ior. Xow~ does tlle geutlenwn belie,·e tiJat tht> Rel'­retary of the 1nteriut· should he- igllOI'<"d i11 the di~hnr!':PIIlf'nt of tllel-'e fmuls'! Does uot the gentleman thinl< tlwt the Seeretury of the Interior l!:ts shown his worth and integrity of pnrpose not onl.r for tile Indian Rerdee. but for nll sen-ires. so thnt llf' shonltl Sll]tc>J'Yisf' the.·p fnnrts nud uot IP:n·e it to a snJ)or<linHte?

::\It·. RTEPIIEXR of Tf>X.;ls. I will stnte to tlJe gent!{'mau that nil tlwse rlllwtulments h;ne bf'ell rl:'r<>f<>rrerl to tilt> Committee on In1linn r\ffnirs: nnrl. \VJ:lile it i~ not stntf><'l in the repot't. the committee tlP<'itlf'fl that nppropliations of that kind shonlt1 he nwde only thron.!!h thP Secret111·y of the Interior-tllat be sbonld han• tlle l"ig:JJt. :t!': lJeretufore. to eontwl thi:;:;. It wns :1 ebange in the law made by the Senate that we did not tliink ought to ol.Jtain.

Mr. s·tAFFOITD: It <'foes not Fet>m to :h1ne nnr mE>rit what­soever. I ntH :-:~nqHised that it \V1is e\'er int·oqJOr-a ted. eYen in a Setwte nmendnrent.

.Mr. STEl'HJt:NS of Texas. I think the gcntiE>utan is eorrert, nnd I e11n nssul'e hi-Ill thut that will either go- out or come back to the Hou~e.

Voel' auy othet• gentlemnn deRire to· RSI{ nny q11estion~? .Mt·. !\IO~DI~LL. I l'houiCI like to h:l\·e SYUJe informution in

reg.n·o to a memltnent l\"o. H'in. pnge 83-Fol"' n wnte1· suppl.r fo1· l:!O,IllUI a:.-rer-1. more m· IP.ss, of ll'!"i""able land

allntled to Indians in the so-c·allt'd Wapato projt•<"t on the Yakima Indian l:~ •SPI'Yation in tbp ~tate of W'ashi.ngton. $10U.tlll0, to bt> covet·ed into the t·eclamation fund as a tirst installment on aecount of tbe repayment of the <·o~t or eoustmctin~ stomge wot·ks to impound the necessary fJood wate1·s of the Yakima IUver.

Tlln t. :1 s · I understHud. appropriates $200.000. n lthon~h thn t does uot uppe;tt· to IJe Yery t:leur. It seems that $100000 is to be )JI< icetl in tlle rt>clamntiun fuml, :tnd then nnuthf'-1' $lOO.OOU is HPJH"OJH'i<ttPd. It is not cle~Jl' whnt is to be done with tllat. in all. $:!00.000. What is this \\'tt)Juto vrojeet eX{te<'ted to cul't?

~\lr. STEl'REX~ of Texm~. I lwYe uot the tlgut·es l.Jefore me. I .vleltl tn the gentleman from South D;tkota (;\lr. Bt:RKEJ on that question. He llus bad it up n•ry I'eeeutly witll tile delmrt­ment.

Mr. llCTIKE of South Dttkota. I -will f;llY to tile gentlemnn tl'lat fm· many years tlH~1·e hns IJE>£>n in tlle Indian ·:q•propt1utiou bill. when it cume baek from tlJe otller end of th~ Capitol. an item p!·uposing- au apJH'apr·iation of $'1..'-(00.IHlO for tht-> JHH'(Iose of conslrneting Rtorng£> rE'seryoirs anti furni::-lling "'<ltPI' to the Indians iu the Ynt>.itua He~en·ation upon WhHt is !mown HS the WuJmto projel't. TlJis grPw out of the 'fact tlJat sonte years a~o nn appropriation of water was lllHde hy the 8e<:retat·,· of the Interim· fm• these Yakima Indian!'; of 147 seeond-feet. which \vns not ~ntlkient for tlleiJ· neeflR. and not a~ nmeh ns I t11 nk thPy slJould haYe. Tllt> ~tmnyside Jfl'ojert. -r•hi<:b is a project rrut1<"r­the Hechnn:ttion Seniee on the other :ide of thf> rl\·er. appro­priated sntfic-ient wn ter fot· theil· purposes fruw the Yakima Hi\·er, 11nd prHcticnlly toolc 1111 the water tbet·e wns in th~ rh·er e:xeept tllis HI S{leou<l-fPf't which bad bPPn npJtt·oprinted fo1· the llllli;Jns. A joiut coiumission wns HlJPOintert nnc1Pr a pro­,-i~ion tba t was iucorpomted in conferenre last .rPn t· wbeu t be $1 .SOO.Otl0 item "·ent out of the Indian HJllH'OJH"i<ltion bill. pro­,·iding fot· nn ill\·e~ti:.mtion of the m;tttPr for th.• Plll'ltose of nRcertainin~ all the ftlct~ and set>iHg if it would lte pnR!'ibll:' to \vorl\ out n Jli'OJlo:-litinn that wonlrt do justiee by all pal'ti~ l'Oii­eernrd. nntl partieulnrly by the Indinn~. Thllt joint commi~sio.n, consisting of two Rt:>tmto!·s nnrl two :\J~Illlwi·s of til(> HtmsP. m:tde their repm1 e·arly in tllis SE'Rsion. in whieb it i~ RtlltPd in ~lib­stance tbat tile Imliuns 'wre <->Quitably • at IE>af';t. if not Jeg:t lly~ entitled to one-half of tlJe fiow of the Y:t1\:·ma nh·et-. mHl tlwt tlle npproprintion mnfle hy the RPrretnry of tlw ltJter-ior of 147 serond-feet was not pqnitnhle and "'flS nM n f"ntfkiE>nt Hlllntmt of wall:'!' to iJ·1·Ignte the ·nuotted lands <>f the Indiaus on the Ynkinm Uesenl!tion.

'l'lle comwis.«ion wns· of the opinion tbnt the settlers· who h<td npproprtatert wnter nnrler the Smm~·side- projert. "~bo \Vt--re llll­

der contract to pay for tlleir Ianti all thflt it WllS wortb-I think 1•hout $50 an a~re-nnd the Go~ernment h:l':in~ gn:tranteed tht>m water. tueir rbarge could not nn!l ought nnt to he in­cre;H"e·l. If the GoYemment hnd negiE>rted to mn 1'(:' an npJH"O­printion sufficient to provide for the Indians "·hat tli.ey were­entitled to. the Gm·ernmeur · itself on:rilt to pny' :tny expense th:tt there might he of proddin~ stttlicient wnter to ir--;·igMe the lnn<'ls of the llHlinns np to \Yllflt \YOUid be ri~llt nnrl fair and eqnitnble: in otllet· \YOr<ls. )1I'OYiC11:' the Hmonnt of wntel' thnt the Infli<Jus .on~llt to bwre b:•d nppropriHtert for their tiRE' m·iginnlly: The rommi!-':'llon not desiring to h:1Ye tllis project cnr1'iel1 on as n n Indian reeln m:ttlon project. finrliug tllnt the Ited:l nwtion Ser,·ice hntl sufficient "·nter nlrendy in stor;,g-e. so th·tt tllry could fnmish the nntouut of wnter tllnt "'e think otH!ht to be fm·ni. herl to thf' Iurli:1 11R. r~ported in f~n-oT of an HJllll:OJll'intion being- nntho1·ir.C'fl of $GOO.OOO to the reclamation fnwl. to be np­proprillted nmm:llly. in instnllments. upon estimnte:;: thnt "·onld he m:Hle. snffkient to pny for· the wnter· tiult mig-ht be n~ed from yent· to yenr. helie,·in~ that it wonld be bPttE>r to bny the '\\":Iter from the Heclnmn tion Sen-ire tb:m to try anti pro­\'irte for ronstrncting re~erYoit·s and pro,·iding storage. :1s this nmendment propo~es. TlJe rommi~sion fomul thnt the Indians were entitlecl. eqnitnbly if not Iegnlly. to oue-hnlf of the flow of the Ynl;imn Hi,·er. which would irri~nte or furn1slJ \Yater Rnffieif'nt for about one-half of the ind],-i<lnnl :tllntmf'ut~ of the Turlinns within the Wnpnto projPf't. The Rennte :tlllf-'lltlment l•roYirles for m·lldng: it a rf>rlnnwtion projert nnd lll'nYiclillg tll·tt Hll Of the l:liHlS of tlJe ln<'fi:lll!'< in the -rrnp!lto prnje('f ~hnll be­iJ"rignted nnd n chnrge m:1fle upon tile land, or to the in<lividuar Indians, for one-half of the e<>st.

11468 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE: JuLY 1;

I cnn say to the gentlenum that it would rost about $1.800.000 Mr. CARTER. And then take up the amendments seriatim 1 to cnrry out the plan that the Reclamation Service hav-e in Mr. 1\IA:NN. They hav-e to be taken up seriatjm. mind, if we proYide the means for them to do it. In other . .Mr. CARTER. And the gentleman couples with it the addi­words. this amendment would mean ultimately the expenditure tiona! request that we shall not be too strict undet· tlle five­of probnbly $1.800.000. I am opposed ::mel I believe the gentle- minute rule? men who will be the other House conferees are opposed to this l\lr . .MANN. Yes; otherwise there would be more time used proposition propo~ed by the Senate. We hav-e opposed it in for general debate. eyery session of Congress for the lnst four or fiYe years. I 1\lr. STEPHEN.3 of Texas. That will be satisfactory to me. think originally the Senate proposed making it practically a l\fr. HARRISON. .Mr. Chairman--grntuity appropriation of $1.800.000 to furnish water for the l\fr. CA~1PBELL. Mr. Chairman, tile gentleman from Mis-Indian allotments. One-sixth of the land is now in white sissippi is intertsted in an item which I am sure he does not ownership. White men haYe acquired the lands either by pur- want to discuss in general debate with nobody here. I want' chasing inherited lands of deceased Indinns or from Indians to offer some observations on the same item, and I do not want who have been given patents in fee. The joint commission that to talk to empty seats. I hn,·e referred to concluded, and so reported, that the pur- . Mr._ 1\fANN. That was the reason I made the suggestion. chasers of such lands purchased the water rights, and that in Mr. CA.l\1PBELL. It is a matter of Yital importance nnd furnishing water for the Indians we would have also to furnish should be discussed when Members are here interested in the water for those who had acquired the lands from the Indians, progre~s of the bill. If we cau have plenty of time-who had bought them in some instances at prices that cer- Mr. MANN. A re::tsonable time. tainly must have included the water rights, because some of Mr. CAMPBELL. A reasonable nme, I am willing. those lands sold for $100 or $150 an acre, as I recall. and 1\fr. STEPHENS of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous gentlemen will appreciate that that must baYe contemplated consent that the rest of the day be used for general debate. :mel· that it included the water rights. · In other words, the water that after to-day the bill be taken up under the fiYe-minute rule. right of the Indian allottee went with the land. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Texas asks unan-

lr. MO~l)ELL. That is, some of those Indian lands sold for imous consent that all general debate on this bill shall close those prices? when the House adjourns to-night. Is there objection?

l\lr. BURKE of South Dakota. Yes; as high as $100 or $150 Mr. HARRISON. Mr. Speaker, reserving the right to object, an ncre. Now. if the gentleman bas examined this provision-- . that is perfectly agreeable to me, except I tllink there ought to

1\Ir. MO~l)ELL. If the gentleman will allow me before be be some agreement on this particular item. I am willing to goes on further. I am not Yery clear as to what the situation is. make whatever agreement the gentleman wishes. I suppose I ought to know more about this matter, but I do l\fr. MANX We can not make an agreement now as to not. There is the Sunnyside project on one side of the river; items. that is not on an Indian reservation. Mr. CARTER. I think there will be no disposition to cnt tlle

1\lr. BURKE of South Dakota. That is correct. gentleman off, but to give him plenty of time on that item. Mr. MONDELL. On the other · side is the Indian Reserva- l\fr. MANN. The gentleman from Texas has stated that he

tion. Have any works been constructed for the irrigation of would be lenient. this land? . The CHAIR~IAN. The gentleman from Texas asks unan-'

Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. Certainly. imous consent that at the adjournment to-night general debnte l\lr. MONDELL. The canal- and distributing works have all sha11 close. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The Chair

been constructed? hears none. . Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. There are canals, but it is · Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. Has there been :my division

claimed by the Reclamation Service thnt to carry out the plan of time? · that it proposes :md that is claimed will be necessary to fur- Mr. CARTER. No. nish water for the reclamation of all the land, that some or nil 1\lr. STEPHENS of Texas. Mr. Cllairman. I ask unanimous of these canals will have to be reconstructed. I will say to the consent that the time be equally: divideu, :md that the gentle-' gentleman that there is a dminage ditch that bas been con- man from South Dakota control one half and I control the other structe<,l at a cost of $250,000, and the construction of the recla- half. mation project bas been paid out of the proceeds received from The CHAIRMAJ.'l. The gentleman from Texas asks unanl­tbe sale of the Indian lands, including that $250,000 expended mous consent that the time be equally diY!ded, the gentleman for constructing the drainage ditch. from South Dakotn to control one half and be to control tllo

Mr. MO~"'DELL. The gentleman says "has been paid." He other half. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The Chair means that it is to be paid out of the proceeds receiYed here- hem·s none. after. Mr. HARRISON. A parliamentary inquiry, 1\Ir. Chairman.

l\fr. BURKE of South Dakota. I do ngt think it bas not been '.rhe CHA.IR.~JA.N. The gentleman will state it. fully rehnbursed, ancl I am not sure that any of it has been re- l\fr. HARRISON. 1\lay I ask whether to-morrow is to take imbnrsed. the place of Calendar Wednesday?

1\fr. 1\fONDELL. Where are the lands which the Indians are The CHAIR~IAN. The Chair can not malre a decision as to to sell? matters that affect the Ho.nse, but the Chair will state as a

1\lr. BURKE of South Dakota. They are dry lands scattered matter of information that to-morrow has been agreed upon to throughout a large area of what wns formerlytreservation. take the place of Calendar Wednesday.

Mr. l\fANN. Mr. Chairman. will the gentleman from Texas 1\lr. HARRISON. l\lr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent permit me to make a suggestion? that as soon as we go into consideration of this bill, either to-

1\Ir. STEPHE~S of Texas. Certainly. morrow or the next day, that this item relati'V"e to the hlissis-· l\Ir. l\IANN. There are a few Senate amendments which I sippi Choctaws, Senate amendment 139, one of the most im­

think ought to be discussed in the House before they go to portant here, be tnken up first for consideration an<l debate. conference. If we should have a little e.xtra time. and not be The . CHAIRMAN. The gentleman fr9m l\fississippi asks too strict about enforcing the five-minute rule when we reach tmnnimous consent that whe·n general debnte is cloRed on the tho e amendments, in order that they may receiYe better dis- bill the first amendment that shall be considered shall be the cnssion, would it be possible to have an understanding to that amendment relating to the :Mississippi Choctaws. Is there ob­effect and then an agreement that general debate shall run for jection? the rest of the day? 1\lr. FERRIS. 1\lr. Chairman. reserving the right to object,

l\fr. STEPHE~S of Texas. On all the amendments? I do not propose to Jet the opportunity pass to say that this is 1\lr. l\fAXN. Yes; that to-day be de,·oted to general debate not an amendment entitled to the consideration which it is

and then some of these amendments that require special con- likely to recei>e. It was put in' the bill on the floor of the sideration-the gentleman from ~Iississippi bns one- Sennte and neYer llas been considered either in the committee.•

l\fr. STEPHENS of Texas. It would include all the amend- of the House or Senate. It proposes to undo the work of. 20 ments? years of onr Stnte. It proposes to oYerturn work of Federul

Mr. MANN. Yes; but the most of them would take no time courts. Federal commissions. and departmental ac·tious that baYc at nll. been settled long ngo. We do not propo e to have ontsiders

Mr. CARTER. .As I understand, the proposition of the gen- overturn 20 years of h:ud work nt an expenditure of millions Uemun is thnt we devote the remaind€-1' of the afternoon to of dollars tliat has been made to complete the rolls.· It 1s general debate? · amflzing tlutt such 1lll amendment'-fts this should be con ·klPred

.:Mr. MA:NN. Ye~; and. that general tlebate shall close at the anywhere in anything like -a- serious Yein. These people hn.Ye adjoumment this afternoon. ~ . : _· . refused for almost ·il hnndred yeal's-to join thci·r peotJie in tllc

191 ±. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD~HOUSE. 11469- .,

We. t. They lo.ng ago · ate up their patrimony and . are now, lhrough a lot of snitching attorneys, trying to eat · up the lmliH us of the W el5t.

1\lr. BURKE of South Dakota. Mr. Chairman, will the gen­tJemun yield?

Mr. FERRIS . . Yes. 1\lr. BURKE of South Dakota. Does the gentleman from

Oklahoma oppose the amendment of the Senate? 1\lr. FERHIS. Oh, undoubtedly; every line of it. Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. Then the gentleman from

Oklahoma hopes that the conferees will secure an agreement eliminating the amendment?

Mr. FERRIS. I do, certainly; and it is their duty to do it. 'l'he CHAIR:\IAN. Is there objection? Mr. FERRIS. Mr. Chairman, in deference to my colleagne

[Mr. THOMPSON of Oklahoma], who desires to have this con­sidered first. I have no objection.

Mr. STAFFORD. Mr. Chairman, reserving the right to ob­ject, as I understand the procedure, when we take up this bill under the five-minute rule, each amendment will be considered in its order, just as if we were considering the bill as an orig­inal proposition. I do not think any exception ~hould be made to any one of them, thus postponing the consideration uf the other provisions. I recognize fully that it is an important amendment, but there are other important amendments in this bill. Why should we make such an exceptional rule as to take this one up out of its order?

.Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. I think this will take more time than any other amendment.

Mr. HARRISON. And it was for that reason that I make the request. The other amendments will not take so much time. There are a great many Members who are interested in this particular amendment, and we would "like to debate it at a time when the Members are present. The gentleman knows very well that with a baseball game going on in the city of Washington, in the later hours of the afternoon, the member­ship present may be somewhat sparse.

Mr. STAFFORD. It is possible that we might meet to con­sider this bill on Friday at 11 o'clock, and that by 12 o'clock, when most of the Members would be present, the other amend­ments would be all disposed of, and that then we could con­sider this particular amendment.

1\Ir. CAUTER. Mr. Chairman, there has been a great deal of misinformation about this question, more I think than I ever saw about any question in my life. Members ought to have an opportunity to bear what is going to be said on both sides of this controversy before they vote, because it is a vital propo­sition which may in the end involve this Government in a claim perhaps of millions of dollars. It bas already been settled I.ty the courts and by the Federal GoYernment itself, and for that reason I think we ougct to havt: the fullest possible membership here when the question is discussed. I hope my friend from Wisconsin will not object to having it 'COnsidered first, because I understand the reason the gentleman . from .Mississippi wants it considered first is that we will then haYe a better audience.

1\Ir. STAFFORD. There will be no similar requests made as to any other amendment?

1\Ir. C.ARTER. I think not. 1\Ir. STAFFORD . . Mr. Chairman, I shall not object. Mr. FINLEY. .About bow much time will this Choctaw

amendment require for discussion? Mr. HARRISON. I do not know bow many will desire to

speak on the other side. I really think not over two hours of discussion will be needed. That would be my idea, offhand.

1\Ir. FINLEY. Mr. Chairman, I want to say this. that some of us ha-ve -very important legislation of a general character here that we would like to wind up certainly next week, and if the consideration of this amendment at that time would inter­fere with that, I would not want to give my con ent.

Mr. STAFFORD. Does the gentleman refer to the Moon omnibus post-office bill? ·

1.\Ir. FINLEY. Yes. Mr. ST.AFFORD. In my opinion it will not be possible to

get that up until maybe the week following. We have at pres­ent under consideration the Adamson dam bill, which has the right of way, and under present procedure we are not likely to reach a \Ote on that bill until next Friday or Saturday.

Mr. FINLEY. I am familiar with that bill. · 1\Ir. BURKE of South Dakota. 1\Ir. Ch~ irman, before . this

request is put I would like to ask the gentleman from Okla­homa [1\Ir. CARTER] if he. al~o is of opinion as expressed by his colleague [l\fr. FERRIS] that that amendment ought to be elimi­nated .from the bill?

Mr. CARTER. The gentleman means the ent!re amendment!

LI-723

Mr. BUUKE of South Dakota. Yes. 1\Ir. CARTER. In resp'onse to that I will say this, that by

the .Atoka agreem~t and the supplementary agreement of July 1, 1902, a division of these funds was promised to the Choctaw and Chickasaw people, to begin not Jater than March 4, 1907. These agreements were made for the purpose of getting the · Choctaws and Chickasaws to surrender their tribal rights--

Mr. UONDELL. Mr. Chairman, let me suggest that if the gentleman is going to discuss this amendment--

Mr. CARTER. Oh, I am just about through, if the gentle­man will permit. .And, I think, in view of the difference in time consumed by the gentleman and mysalf, he should certainly feel the responsibility upon himself of listening to me for just a few minutes, for I have listened to him, with very much pleasure, for n great many hours.

Mr. MONDELL. I was not criticizing my friend for taking the time. but realizing the importance of the matter it occurred to me that it would be better to have it discussed at one time.

Mr. CA.R'TER That is very true, but I want to answer the gentleman from South Dakota, who has a ked me a que ·tion, and to give my reasons. This pledge · having been made, I cer­tainly would think the Government ought to stand by its pledge to the Indians and divide those funds. Therefore, I would be in favor of the amendment for a division of the funds, but I would not be in favor of an amendment which prohibited a division of those funds-the Williams amendment-inserted on the floor of the Senate.

1\Ir. BURKE of South Dakota. I thought that was the posi­tion of the gentleman, and I was rather surprised that his col­league from Oklahoma would go so far as to say that he was opposed to the amendment.

The CHAIR~.IA.J.~. The gentleman from Mississippi asks unanimous consent that when general debate is closed and the bill i~:> taken up for consideration under the five-minute rule, the amendment relating to the Mississippi Choctaws. amendment 139, be first considered. Is there objection? [After a vanse.] 'The Chair bears none, and it is so orclered.

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. I yield to the gentleman from Oklahoma [l\Ir. FERRIS].

Mr. FERRIS. 1\fr. Chairman, a moment ago the gentleman from South Dakota [l\Ir. BuRKE] asked me in reference to a certain Senate amendment. The gentleman, who is aware more fully of the history of that amendment than I. knows tllere are two parts to that amendment, one JlUt in by the Sena te eommittee and one on the floor of the Senate. It is the one adopted by the Senate known as the Williams amendment to which I am opposed, and I bud no reference at all to the wis­dom, the justness, and correctness of the other amendment at all.

1\Ir. BURKE of South Dakota. . Will the gentleman yield? Mr. FERRIS. I thought the gentleman so understood. 1\Ir. BURKE of South Dakota. I will say to the gentleman it

is only one amendment, and I was speaking of that amendment, and I understood the gentleman to say that he was opposed to it.

Mr. FERIUS. 1."'1le gentlem;.m is right about it heing oue amendment. I am not 011posed to what the committee did in granting a payment of their own money, but what the Senate did in trying to tack on those Mississippi Choctaws who still live apart 'from their tribes, have always refused to come, nnd still refuse to come.

Mr. STEPHE~S of Texas. Will the gentleman from South Dakota use some of his time?

1\fr. BURKE of South Dakota. I will yield further to inter­rogatories of the gentleman from 'Vyoming.

1\Ir. 1\IONDELL. I will be very brief and ask the gentleman a few more questions in regard to item 155, what is known as the Wapato project on the Yakima Indian Reservatio.n, which is referred to. So far as the project has been constructed, I understand it has been constructed out of appropriations reim­bursable and constructed· by the Indian Bureau. Is that true?

Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. Yes. 1\lr. l\IONDELL. And what the gentlemen of the joint com­

mittee recommended, as I understand, is the expenditure through the Reclamation Service of approximately half a mil­lion dollars for the purpose of upplementing the water s11pply for the irrigation project that is already there.

Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. That is exactly the proposi­tion. In other words, we do not propose to appropriate any money for the construction of any reservoir or building of any reclamation work, bu~ simply to pay the Reclamation Service for the water that we think those Indians are entitled to and that has been taken from them and is now being distributed on lands that have been acquired by whlte settlers uncler reclamation projects conducted under the Reclamation Servke.

fll470 CONGRESSIONAL. RECORD-· HOUSE.

Mr. 1\IO:\'TIELL. It is proposed to purchase from tbe Recla­mntion Service. for the benefi~ of thls land, perpetunl water rights in excef':s of the rights they already have ·suffi.cient for the complete irrigation of their J::mds?

l\lr. BURKE of South Dakota. Yes. I will say to the gen­t1emnn we take into consideration th::tt there would b~ rome credit giYen of the return flow. We already hn'"e a drninage ditch there that cost $250.000. and there is considerable water that ret11rns to the Yakima River thnt we think will bP used by the Reclamation Ser>ice. and we are entitled to som~ C'redit for it, and while Mr. Newell stated thnt it would take some­thing more than $600.000 to pay all the service, e,·en with this wnter, we concluded that, taking everything into consideration, $500.000 was a fair amount; that the Reclamation ~en-ice, without loRs, could furnish the water necessary to provide these Indians with water.

1\ir. 1\IOXDELL. Now, the plan which seems to be apparent in the Sennte nmendment seems to me very much more. The project thnt the joint commission recommended. then. is a project for the increase of t11e water supply for the Indians. to be p:lld for out of the Indian funds; thnt is, to be paid for out of appropriations which are reimbursable?

l\.fr. RlJRKE of South DRkotn. From the proceeds received from the s~1les of the surplus lands.

l\lr. l\fOXDELL. And that is to be paid out of the Indian funds, if tho~e funds e>er come in for the benefit of the Indians, and no rn·ovil'lion wouln be mRde for indi•idual repayment?

l\!r. RCRKE of South Dnkota. Not at all. Mr. MO.\'DELL. Either on behalf of the Indians or on behalf

of the f?rnntees of the Indians? Mr. llURKE of South Dakota. That is correct. 1\ir. MO.:\DELL. 1'\ow, the Senate proposition seems to be a

very much more r~mbitious enterprise. l\!r. BURKE of South Dakota. Let me say to the gentleman

wh::~t I omitted to say, thnt the joint commission as a part of its recommendation suggested that the Indians be permitted to sell one-h1:1lf of their allotment, the money to be withheld and to be expenctefl for their benefit, which would enable the Indians to be supplied with implements and teams and improve the other half of their allotment, for which we propose to fur­nish water sufficient to irrignte it. Now. this proposition in­''OlYes the irrigntion and the reclamation of the other 40 acres and provides that the Individual Indians shall pay the cost of the reclamation, and they have gone so far as to propose a lien upon the indiviilnnl allotment, which, in my judgment, is tlenrly unconstltutionnl, because the act expressly provides that the land shnlJ be exempted from nny lien for a period of 25 years nnd Congre~ certninly cnn not make any lien in direct contradiction to it considered in the nllotrnent net originnlly.

.Mr. l\IO~DELL. But the gentleman says that a reimburse­ment by the Inrlians ann their grnntees is .contemplated in the Senute provision. Well it would seem thnt it is, and yet there is a question about thnt. because wbile at one point the paragraph stute~ that the entire cost shall be reimbursed. there is nnother pro•ision to the effect that the cost of the water right shall be $4 per acre-foot, and so forth. Those seem to conflict. Now, I do not want to interrognte the gentleman at length or take up the time of the committee in re~ard to these mattet·s if the gentleman can assure us tbnt the House conferees can stanfl ~1gainst the SenHte amendment in its present form.

l\Ir. BURKE of South Dakota. 1\lr. Chairmnn. I can say, ' spenking only for myself, that the House conferees on several

occasions hn\e not only stood agninRt this pro\·ision but hnve succeeded in eliminating it from the bill; nnd last year, in order that we might bave inform11tion and ascertain what the fncts were and do justice, if injustice hnd been done, to the Indbms, this very joint commission was a ppointerl. and it h<1 s ·made a report; and I think tbe gentlemen on the other side of the House--

l\Ir. STEPHENS of Texas. A unanimous report. 1\lr. BUUKE of South Dukota. Are in fa>or of the proposition

on this bill ns n substitute for the Sennte amenrlrue11t that con­forms to the recowmend:1tion of the joint commission. Now, I do not know that my coconferees feel that way about it.

1\Ir. STEPHE.XS of Texus. The gentleman's statement is correct.

l\lr. 1\IOXDELL. The Senate amendment not only seems to be \el'Y qnestionnble as to its propriety from the standpoint of the cb:uncter of tlle project, but the detflils under wbjcb the project is proposed to be carried out is. it seems to me, not a wiPe one. not a workable one, so that, expressing .the hope the Senilte amenrlment will go out and thnt something more ·c1early alou~ the line of the report of the joint commission be substituted in its stead, I do not care to take up the. time of the committee turtller.

1\fr. STEPHENS of Texas. Does the gentleman desire to use nny time?

Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. Yes. Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. I can use 10 minutes over here

at present. ~lr. BURKE of South Dakota. All right. The gentleman

may use the 10 minutes. 1\lr. STEPHENS of Texas. I yield to the gentleman from

California {Mr. llAKER] 10 Qlinutes.' I\lr. RAKER. Mr. Chairman. in 1912. in the Slxty-~ee<>Ld

Con~ress, I lr:troduced H. R. 19557, and thereafter H. R. 2~352. At the beginning of this Congress, on ....... pril 7. 1H13, I introduced bill H. R. 52, whkb hild for its object and purpo·e thf> cre.ntion of a national. pnrk out of wbnt is known ns the Peter La~sen .Mountain, or La~sen Peak, in Sh: sta. Lnssen. Tehama. and Pluma.s Countie.s. L northern California. On the 30tb of !\lay, 19J4, It was e>Jdenced that an ac :vc ..;·clenno wns then in the process of t::ruption. Some days ago I insert .... -d some ruR tter" h:i the ~CORD on tbat subject. and now. to confirru 1h _t stntemt>nt, I desire to read the following dispatch from Red Bluft'. Cal., dated June 30, 1914. and published in the Wasbir.gton Post: l\IOUNT LA.SSEN _AGAIN AC1'1\'l?r--CALIFORl'iiA \OLCANIC PEAK EXPLODES

A.GA.IN FOR THE THIBTEENTB Tf!\JE.

RED BLUFF, CAL., June SO. .Lassen Peak exploded to-day In Its tl1lrtt>entb e1·uptlon :.ince Ma:v 30

WJth a dense <'Oiumn of black smoke that shot up thousands of fPet and drlftl.'d Rlowly northward. A few minute.'3 latPr a smallPr column ot' black. smol~e fringed with whitish steam ascended mo1·e gradually and Is snll l'i.smg.

The ernpt1on ha~ lasted longer and has the appearance of being more vio]Pnt than any that preceded it.

Afte1· taking the angle of elevation wltb a tr~mllt the rountv surveyor estimated the bei~ht of the fi1·st column at ::\.000 feet. At the end ot' a.n hour It had dwlndlPd to 500 fept, and the flutings of white in Its sides lndic!lted that It wa:. mostly steam. This dPnse black of the first outburst. was due to ~ heavy freight of vol<'anic sand.

Countn~g the !.'nlpt•on of S1~n.day ni~ht, reportPd to·dn:v from Mineral, this last IS the thll'teent'l) dec1sn·e outbreak of Lassen Peak since lt first awoke a month ago to-day.

I~ 18S4 Prof. _Diller mnde a thorou?;b ~eologiC'al sur>ey of this terrltory. ~e 1~ again n.nd now personally upon the ~ronnd, nm1er the d1rect10n of the Geological Sm·,·ey, nnd bas mncte a report to tbe survey, giving a history of these outbreaks. ~bow­ing that it is the only nctiYe •-olcano in continental United States; in fact, upon any mainJnnd. And in coiDlection witb myo remnrks upon this subje{'t. I desire to insert in the RECORD a statement in regard to this mlltter from the Geological Survey.

The CH_,.UR).1A~. The gentleman from California PII,', RAKER] asks unnmmous consent to extend his remarks in the RECORD. Is tbere objection?

There was no objection. · l\1r. llAKER. The following is the stater ~ent from the Geo­

logical Survey : [From United States Geological Survey.]

GEOLOGICAL SURVEY REPORTS 0:-J LASSEN ERUPTION.

In a !Pport juo;t forwa.rd!.'d to Wn:.bington from th!.' fiPld, Geolo~t1st J. S. D1ller sn<?ge~tli a connection between the Lassen Peak erupt1on and the San Francisco 11.)15 exposition.

l\lr. ~lller waR ordered to visit the scene of volcnnlc eruption. and bls detailed ~tatement was made' public by the Unit!.'d Stat-es G~>ologlcal Survey_ yesterday. The ~eolog-i:.t points ont tbat old Vulcnn mflv he prpparm::! an Am!.'~lca~ ,·esuvius tor the Panama-Pa<'ific Exposftion. The Pacific Ocean 1s _gtrdled by volcanoes. nnd live ones are common ~ill~~e re~'i,~~~alth~~:encan countries. to which Panama belongs, Mr.

"So it !s uo to Vulcan to prepare a n~•ar-by exhihit for tbe occasion, and be ev1dentl:v see:. his duty and is rejuvenating the energy of Lassen Peak as a kind of volcanic movlnz picn1re. .

" ~1ount Rainier and 1\lount Shasta, the beautiful cones so much in evidence to the traveler on the Pacific coast north of San Franci!':CO arP now finding an UJJ-to-date l'ival in Lassen Pealt. wbleb ls plainly 1zi view from the rallrofld for many miles in the Racramento \alley. be­tween H!.'ddin~ and Red Bluff. L11R~en PPak is the soutbet·n end ot the CaRcade Hange. and it stnnds bptwePn the SiPITe 'evada on the southeast and the Klamath Mountains on the nortiHv~>st. Its lavas erupted in past ages reach th«.> Sacramento Valle:v on the one slc'JP and on the other form a pat·t of the vast volcanic field, one of the ~t'Pntest ~~dth1ed:bo~~~~ \~~t ~;r~~~~~~n~arN:if~~~~ c;~i:~.rnia, Ort>gon, washington.

" Of all portions of the Cascade Range. Las~en Peak stil1 rt>talns the l:ugest rt>mnant of its cnee vigorQus volcanic enen~:v. !\1or!!an nnd Suppan Ilot Springs and llumpaRR Ilell. on the sontb. as wt>ll as not Rpring Valley and the boiling mud lake Tartams, on the southeast, have long attrac1ed th£> attention not only of Californians, but to some ex­tent of tbe tourists. to whom thE' re~ion is r,n-owin"' more accessillle every year. If to these aJt·pady-estahli~hed Rttr·act7on:. he aclclt>.d a ft·equent occurrence of the rec!.'nt -volcanic play!'~ of Lassen Peak, the region will take high rank among n'ltur+>'s wondt>rlands. •

"nut what Is the nature of tbi. nPw activity of Lassen? Is it r!'ally volcanic? Will it soon dwindl!.' and become whoU.v quiPscent. or, on the other band. Is It the precrrrsor of a more profound Pruption, lilte that of Krak:xtoa? The excellent pbotogr·anbs tbar ba,•e bl'en taken of tbP outburst, especially those by G. 1•'. Milford and the st>ries by B. [<', Loomis. of Ylola, taken from a point 6 miles northwest of LasRen Peak, leave little donht In the mind of anvone familiar with volcanic phenomena tbnt the outburst Is essential1y volcanic. The, e photcgrapbs a1·e strikln~Jy similar to those taken by Jobnston-Lavis showing the progress of an t'ruptio'n in the Lipari Islands, whose volcanic character iS well known.

1914. CONGRESSIONAL . RECORD-HOUSE. 11471 -" The eruptions of Lassen Peak began May 30, at 5.30 p. m., with

an outburst of steam which, according to Forest Supervisor W. J. Rushing, continued about 10 minutes. It formed a crater in the snow­covered summit of Lassen about 25 by 40 feet in extent and covered the encircling snow for a distance of 300 feet with a mantle of dark, wet dust. Harvey Abbey, a forest ranger, visited the scene and re­ported the facts.

" On the following day at 8 a. m. another eruption occurred, and on June 8/.. a week later, the third and much larger outbreak took place. It lasted iiO minutes, and the rolling column of dense black smoke rose to the height of 2,500 feet. Stones were hurled from the crater, an~ the Forest Service outlook house, a quarter of a mile away on the tiptop of Lassen Peak, was broken by some of them. Blocks and smaller frag­ments accumulated about the crater to a depth of several feet. The dust and sulphurous gases carried southward by the wind were observed at Mineral the forestry station, and the dust was noted 5 miles beyond. Forest rangers who were in the neighborhood of the summit during the eruption heard the I"ushing steam and the falling rocks but report no rumbling ot· subtennnenn noises, earth shocks, electrical phenomena, or great heat beyond that of steam. The dust was practically cold when it fell Considerable volumes of water were ejected, probably wholly in the form of steam. The water condensing ft•om this steam washed a gully in the snow to the adjacent lakelet which occupies what prior to this latest eruption bad long been regarded as the young­est crater of the Lassen volcano. The new crater is not quite over the throat of the old but is a few hundred feet to the northwestward.

"In all there -have been 11 eruptions up to the date of this report, June 21. The most violent was at 9 a. m., June 14, when several over­venturesome pe1·sons were injured by falling or rolllng stones. The eruption was visible from the Sacramento Valley, nearlr 40 miles away, and created profound inte1·est. The last eruption to uate was Friday, June 19, and of relatively smnll energy. Mr. Rushing reports that eruptions are g~>nerally if not always preceded by a complete cessation of escaping steam."

Mr. Diller bas been familiar with Lassen Peak for over 30 years, and his present observations are those of a geologist who bad made a special study of this volcano on several previous visits. His statemel}t con­tinues:

" With successive eruptions the new crater is enlarging. June 20, when Mr. B. F. Loomis and I visited it, it was 400 feet long and 100 feet wide, with a depth of not over 100 feet. It appears to follow a fissure running a little north of east and south of west. The escaping steam from the southwest end of the fissure is visible in the excellent photograph obtained by Mr. Loomis.

"The other bot boles about Lassen Peak, as far as I can learn, have not increased their activity, unless it is Bumpass Hell, which is always fuming, but nothing like an eruption bas been t·eported.

·• No definite molten products have heen found in connection with the recent eruptions of Lassen Peak. The ejected dust, as far as can be judged from an examination with a small pocket lens, is disintegrated or pulverized dacite, perhaps in part decomposed. The quartz, and apparently also the glassy feldspar. are bright, but the hornblende, augite. and mica are, of course, not so abundant in the dacite and are less evident. An examination with a petrographic microscope confirms the conclusion that the dust is the product of the pulverizing action of the explosive gases on the rocks through which they are escaping and not the result of the explosive expansion of gases in a liquid lava.

" That beat bas t·ecently risen in the core of Lassen Peak Is evident from the fact that whereas it was once cold now it is hot and steaming. When E. E. Hayden and I were on the mountain in July, 1883, and slid down the 2.000-foot snow bank into Hat Creek on our way to Yellow Butte, there was no sign of beat in the summit ot Lassen Peak. The rocky summit of the peak, struck by many thunderbolts during storms and superficially fused here and there by the lightning to ful­gerite, is still as it was then, and the little Jake is there, as in 1883, but the beat and the crater are new. Mr. Rushing tells me that these new features appeared with the first eruption. But the fact that the other bot places about the mountain are not yet perceptibly hotter indi­cates that the rise of temperature is local and does not, at least as yet. affect the mountaJn mass. Time alone can tell what Lassen is going to do. The volcano may subside to its former quiescence. But we must not forget that it was only the top of the old Vesuvius that was blown off to make Monte "Somma and the Vesuvius of to-day. Krakatoa blew up ft·om the very base with tremendous effect. There seems no good reason at present to fear a Krakatoan outbreak at Lassen Peak, but the part of wisdom dictates a close watch.

" Eruptions, as a rule, break out suddenly. Sightseers will generally find the viewpoint from which Loomis's photographs were takea close enough if the mountain is active; but if all is quiet and the seeker after knowledge must see the cratet• tor himself, be should be sure to ascend on the windward side and approach with caution."

On July 1 there was another extensive eruption. I insert a later telegram from Red Bluff, Cal., of July 1, which was printed in the Evening Star of to-day, which is as follows: CALIFORNIA'S VOLCANO IS AGAI~ IN ERUPTION-GREAT COLUMN OF DENSE

BLACK SMOKE STREAMS MILE HIGH IN THE AIR. RED BLUFF, CAL., July 1.

After less than 24 hours of quietness, Lassen Peak burst forth early to-day in a stupendous eruption-the fourteenth in the series that began May 30.

No flames were seen. but the vast plume of blackened steam from the crater waved a mile high in the sky and volcanic ash fell at Macomber Flats, 13 miles distant.

COI,U:\t~ OF DENSE S~IOKE. For a little less than half an hour the inverted cone of soaring gases

maintained sharply defined the well-known volcanic outlin~ First, from the mouth of the crat~r itself stood a vertical shaft of jet-black asil. As the silaft rose it mushroomed outward, keeping at its heart the black core of ash. So great was the force of the eruption that the height of the cloud seemed to equal the distance from the mouth of the crater to the plateau at the base of the peak proper. It was almost as if one mountain had been stood atop of the other.

'rWO ERUPTIONS AT ONCE. At this distance there was the appearance of what seemed a thin

sheet of gas hissing from a crevice or a fissure on the north slope, dis­tinct from the main crater. Two eruptions seemed to be going on at the same time.

The true volcanic nature of the eruption. as determined by J. S. Diller. of the United States Geological Survey, was further emphasized t?-day ~Y the strong stench of sulphur perceptible at Volta and at "\lola, 2~ miles down the wind to the north.

The following items from the Sacramento Bee, of June 27 1914, are most interesting: LASSEN THROWS OUT ORE CONTAINING QUICKSILVER-ASSAYER PRO

NOUNCES SOUVENIRS FROM VOLCANO AS CINNABAR ORE ; FOUND NEAR NEW CRATER,

REDDING, SHASTA COUNTY, June 21. The eruption of Mount Lassen may lead to the discovery of a quick

silver mine. That ore containing some value in quicksilver was cast up by the volcano and discovered by Charles Piftschek and Antone Herzleib, of this city.

Constable Frank Rieger, of Hat Creek, 20 miles from the crater visited the mountain. He is a brother-in-law of Charles Plftschek Rieger, a farmer, picked up three pieces of rock 100 feet from the crater an<} sent them to Piftschek as souvenirs. ·

ASSAYER PASSES ON THEM. Piftschek is a well-posted mining man. He showed the specimens to

his mining partner, Anton Herzleib. The latter, who bas had consider able experience in quicksilver mining, declared he believed the pieces contained quicksilver. A few simple tests convinced Herzleib to ills own satisfaction. He submitted the rock to A. McAfee, the assayert. McAfee pronounced the specimens cinnabar ore but be bas not ye analyzed them to fix the value. "Unquestionably cinnabar ore," says Assayer McAfee.

In this connection it is to be remembered that the greatest quick silver mine in the State, the New Almaden, is located in basaltic forma tion of volcanic origin.

TELLS PEAK DISTURBANCES RECALLED-MUD A~D ROCKS THROWN OUT IN 1908.

PLACERVILLE, EL DORADO COUNTY, June 27. A disturbance on Tells Peak, in this county, during the summer o:f

1908, discovered by a surveying party, In charge of Herman D. ;Terrett, is recalled by the activity of Mount Lassen.

Tells Peak. in the Sierra Range, in the eastern part of El Dorado County, west of Lake Tahoe, reaches an elevation of 9,125 feet. Alon"' the side of the mountain, at a height of 6,300 feet1 the surveying partY found a cavity 4 or 5 feet in diameter, from whicn a geyser had lately occurred.

MUD AND STONES THROWN OUT. Directly in the front of the cavity, for a distance of 100 feet, the hot

water, mud, and stones bad been thrown with great violence, bruising bark on the trees, cutting off lar~e branches and destroying vegetation on the ground where the water had fallen. The scars on the trees were still fresh.

Jerrett states there are no cones or other evidence of volcanic activity on Tells Peak itself, but the country thereabout abounds with lava relics of disturbances in an earlier age. Northeast of this peak, at a dis­tance of about 5 miles, are found great lava beds.

LASSEN'S ERUPTIONS CHRONOLOGICALLY,

REDDING, SHASTA COUNTY, June 2"1. W. J. Rushing, forest supervisor, stationed at Mineral, at the base

of Mount Lassen, makes the following tabulated report of the recent eruptions of Mount Lassen :

Date. Hour. Character. Duration. Size of crater.

May 30 5p.m ..... Heavy ......................... 10 minutes. 25 by 40 feet. June 1 Sa.m ..... Heavier ...............•.... 15 minutes. 275 by 60 feet. June 2 9.30 a.m .. ~;riv~~~~::::::: ::::::::::::: 30 minutes. 60 feet deep. June 8 4.30 p.m .. 40 minutes. June 9 10.30 a.m. Heavy; cloud darker ........... 30 minutes. Junel2 3.45 p.m .. Heavy; cloud very dark ........ 50 minutes. 400 by 100 fee t. June 13 6a. m ..... Heavy; ashes fell at Mineral. ... 30 minutes. June14 6a.m.: ... Unconfirmed; report from Red ..............

Bluff only. June 14 9.45 a.m .. Heaviest yet; smoke column 30 minutes.

2,500 feet. June 14 6.45p.m .. Medium .............. .......... 15 minutes. 450 by 125 fee t. June 19 8.15 p.m .. Medium; smoke 2,000 feet ...... 15 minutes. 600 by 150 fee t.

The following item from the Sacramento Bee of date June 17, 1914, shows many of the wonders of Mount Lassen and the surrounding country and the desire of the people of California to create a national park out of the territory adjacent to and surrounding Mount Lassen, viz :

[From the Sacramento {Cal.) Bee, June 17, 1914.] MANY WONDERS IN PROPOSED PARK-PARTS OF NATURE'S PLAYGROUND

WOULD BE IN COUNTIES OF SHASTA, TEHAMA, LASSE~, AND PLUMAS. REDDING, SHASTA COUXTY, June 17.

The petition sent to Congressman RAKER last evening requesting biru to introduce a bill in Con~ress establishing the Mount Lassen National Park describes the boundaries.

The proposed park lies in four counties-Shasta, Lassen, Plumas. and Tehama. Though the now famous volcano is wholly within Shasta County, the greater part of the park is in Plumas and Lassen, or to the eastward of the peak. That is a re~ion rich in natural wonders.

The boundaries are thus described : •.rownships 30 in ranges 4, 5, G, and 7 east, together with a 2-mile strip south of these townships tovi'Dship 31 in the same ranges; townships 32, 33, and 34 in ranges 5 and 6 east. The volcano is in section 34, township 31 north, range 4 east.

LITTLE PRIVATE LAND. The park as thus bounded includes very little privately owned land,

and most of it never has been surveyed. Most of the park lies above the 6,000-foot contour and much of it above 7,000 feet.·

Among the natural wonders in the park as laid out would be Mount

~f:~!~· ~~~e~n~~t~ftih~ v;;~:~~t 1~u~~~e~:i~~d ~~~!;:· £~s!2J ~~e~i1~6 most recent volcano in the country ; Prospect Peak, so named for tba beautiful views from its summit; North Peak, Southwest Peak, Devil'5 Hal! Acre Bumpass's Hell Hole. Moraan Hot Sprin.,.SJ Manzanita Lake,

11472 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JuLY r; Jnniper Lake, Lake Ttllman, Lake Bidwell, Snag Lake, Crumbo Lake, States, and dedicated and set apart as a public park or pleasuring Glass Lake. and numerous other lakes and hot springs. The park grouna for the benefit and enjoyment o! the people, to be known and wculd contain Warner Creek r'anyon, two-thirds of a mile deep and 6 designated as the l'eter Lassen National Park; and all persons who miles ton~. a tributary of the Feather River, n.nd Los Molinos Canyon, shall locate o-r settle upon or occupy tht> same. or any part thereof. ex­of little less scc>nic beauty. cept as ·herelnattPr provided, shall be eonsldered trespnAsers and bo

To M. E. Dlttmar, Shasta County's representative In the exposition removed therefrom: Provided, That nothing herein contained shall affect commission, belongs tbe credit of bringing the park to the attention of any valid existing claim, location, or entry under the land laws of tho loeal boost bodies. He himseH prepared the boundaries and addressed United States or the rights of nny such claimant, locator. or entrymnn the request to Congressman R ... unm. to the full use and enjoyment of his land: P1·o1;ided further, Tb:tt rights

The following is from the Redding Courier-Free Press, of of way for steam or electric rallways, automobiles:,. or wagon ronds may be acquired lthln said Peter Lassen National rark under tllings or

dnte June 16, 1D14: proceedings hereafter made or instituted under tbe Ia\'\ s applicable to :ttOUXT LASSEN • ATIO!'<AL PAltK rn FOt:'n coUNTIEs-NEW voLCA!'<O oNLY the acquisition of such rights over or upon the national forest lands of

O~l'l OF MANY NATtiR.AL WO"UERS EMDltACED IN TH!l BOU~D.ARlES AS the United States when the construction of SUCh roads Will not in t el"-DESCRIBED IN PETITION SENT BY M. E. DITTMAR ·To CONGRESSMAN fere W1tb the Objects Of the nntlonal park, and that the United Sta.tes Il.AKER TUESDAY NlGRT. Reclamation Service may enter upon and utilize for ftowage or other

i b b If purposes any area within said pnrk which may be necessnry for the The petition sent to Con~ressman RAKER by M. E. Dittm~?-r n · e a development and maintenance of a Government reclamation project:

of Redding and Shasta Counties Tue day night, requesting biro to And provided further, That no lands within the llmits of said park introduce a bill in Congress establishing the Mount Lassen National hereby created belonging to or claimed by any railroad or other corpora­Park. describes the boundaries. tlon now having or claiming the rig-ht of indemnity selection by virtue

The park will lie in four counties--Shasta, Lassen, Plumas. and o! any law or contract whatsoever shall be used as a basts for Indemnity Tehama. Though tbf' now famous volcano is wholly within Shasta selection In any State or Territory whatsoever for any loss sustained by County, the greater part o.f the proposed park Is in Plumas and Lassen reason of the creation of said park. counties in a region rich m natural wonders. SEC. 2. That said park shall be under the exclusive control of the

The boundaries are thus described : Township 30 in ranges 4, 5, 6, and Secretary of the Interior, whose duty It shall be, as soon as practicable, 7 ~.,t, together with a 2-mlle strip south of those t~wnsbips; town- to make and publish such ru.es and regulations not lnconslstent with ship 31 ln the same ranges ; townships 32, 33, and 34 lD ranges 5 and the Ia s f tb T'" 't d St t h t 6 east. The Volcano l

·s in section 34, township 31 north, ran!!e 4 easdt. w o . e uru e a es as e may deem necessary Ol' pl'oper or - the care, protection, management, and improvement of the same. &.1ch The park as thus bounded includes very little privately owned Ian • regulRtions shall provide for the prPsct'\'atlon from injury or spoliation

and rr.oo:;t of tt bas nevPr been survPyed. Most of the park lies above o! all timber, mineral deposits, and natural curlosittes or wonders within the 6.000-foot contour and much of It above 7,000 feet. said pat·k and their retention in their natural condition, ns far as prac-

Among the natural wonders ln the park as laid out wou~d be M~unt tieable, and for the preservation of the park in a state of nature, so far Lassen, the only active volcano in the United States, 10,43t feet blgb; as is consistent with tbe purposes of this act. He shall pt·o•;ide against Cinder Cone, until the present outbreak of Mount Lassen called the the wanton destruction of the fish and game found within said park and most recent volcano in the country; Prospect Peak, so named for th~ against their capture or destruction for purposes of merchandise or beautiful views from Its summit ; North Peak and S<?utbwest Pe~k ' profit, and generally shall be authorized tb take all such measures as Devils EiaJf Acre. Bumpass's Hell Hole, Morzan Hot SprlDf~. Manzanu·a shall be necessary to fully carry out the objects and purposes of this Lake, Juniper Lake, Lake Tlllma.n, Lake Bidwell, Sna~ .ake, Crnmho act. Said Secretary may, In bis discretion. execute leases to parcels of Lake, Glass Lake. and numerous other lakes and hot sp1'· ngs. Tbe )Jar~ ground not e...~eeeding 10 acres in extent at any one place to any one would contain Warn!'r Creek Canyon, two-thirds of a mile deep and person or persons or company for not to exceed 20 years, when such mUes Ion~. a tributary of the Feather River, and Los Molinos Canyon, ground is ncee~sary for the erection of buildings for the accommodation of little less scenic beauty. Then there are ice caves :md giant springs of Tisltors, and to parcels of ground not exc-eeding 1 acre In extent and without number. i b d for not to exceed 20 years to r_>ersons who have heretofore erected, or

Once a good road was built into the park and hotels establ 8 e • whom he may hereafter autbonze to erect, summer bomes or cottazes. there would be a great flow of tourist travel to a reg1~n that is but Such leases or privileges may be renewed or extended at the expiration Utile less interestin"' than the Yosemite Valley and the Blg Trees. 1 of the terms thereof. No exclusivP privile~e. however, shall be granted

Now that the v~leano bas brought the Mount La_ssen rPglon nto within the park except upon the 'ground leased. sucit wo-rld-wide note, Shasta County proposes to keep 1t to the front. SEc. 3. That the Secretary of the Interior may also sell and permit

Bill H. R. 19557 was introduced February 6, 1912, Sixty- the removal of such matured or dead or down timber as lle may dPcm necessary or advisable for the protection or lmpt·ovement of the park.

second Congress, second session. SEc. 4. That the Sc.>cretary of the -Interior may exact such {'barges as Bill H. R. 22352 wns introduced Murch 26, 1912, Sixty-second be deems proper for leases, privtleg-es, and so forth, ~ranted bt>reunder,

C d · 0 t f th many matters the and all funds derived therefrom or from any source whatsoever con-ongress, secon sessiOn. n accoun ° e . : neeted with the park shall be expen<led, under his direction, in the man-

btll did not become a law. and was reintroduced m the S1Xty- agement. protection. and Improvement of the park. third Congress. l\1r. BURKE of Sonth Dakota. Mr. Chairman, I yield 10

Bill H. R. 52 was introduced April 7, 1913, Sixty-third Con- minutes to the gentleman from Minnesota [1\Ir. MILLER]. gress, first session, and is as follows: Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman, there are a great mr~ny items A bill (H. R. 52) to establish tbe Peter Lassen National Park In the before the committee in the way of amendments that have

Sierra Nevada Mountains in the State of California, and for other purposes. been made since the bill left the House. whir:h properly shoulu \ Be it enacted, eto., Tbat all those certain tracts, pieces, or parcels of receh·e attention and consideration, but I propose to direct lilnd lying and being situate in the State of California aJ?d within the myself to only one or two at this time. The first amendment boundaries particularly described as follows, to wit: Begmning at the that, I think. should be specinlly considered is known us the northeast corn"r of section 3, township 31, range 6 ea..<:t, Monnt Diablo C k 1' ati dm t Th' 1 t tt • meridian, California; thence sontbE>rly to the southeast cornPr of said ree equa lZ on amen en · lS s no a new rua er section; t!JI.'n.ce easterly to the northeast corner of the northwest q11arter either to the Committee on Indian Affairs or to Congress. It of section 11 said township; tbc>nce southerly to the southeast corner is a matter that has been most persistently before the commit­of the south~e t quarter· or l'll'Ction 14. said township; thPnce east~>rly tees of the House aud the Senate ever since I hn-ve been a to tht> nortlwast corner of tbe northwest quarter or sPction 24. said township; thence sf'utbPrly to the southeast corner of the southwest Member of this body, and, I apprehend, for a good many years quartE-r of section 25. said town!'ltrip; thence we!';terly to the southwest prior to that. It is not th:tt the facts 11re eomplicated; It is corner of section 2() said township; thence sonth~>rly to the southea~t t th t th f t d'ffi lt t d t d it · t th corner of sPction 34. said township: thence wel'tPrly along tbP sixth no a e ac 8 are 1 eu 0 un crs an ; lS no e standard paraliPI north, allowinq for tbe proper offsets, to the northeast fact, .. so far as my judgment is concerned, that there is any comer of sPction 3, township 30 north, range 6 eao;t; tllence southerly merit in the claim; but its continuous appearance here is due to the southeast corner of section 27. said township; thence W<'<lterly to the one fact that some people wnnt to get some monev. out to the southwPst .::orn('r ot the soutbt>::tst quarter of section 28. said township; th~>nce northerly to the northwest cornPr of tbe southeast of the United States Treasury, and there is nothing else in the quartet· of said section; thence westerly to the ~o11tbwest corner of the claim. There were two '>r three enactments by Congress not·tbwest quarter of said st>ction; thence northPrly to thP northwest affecting the Creeks and their property. but the only ones that corner of sairl sE-ction; thence westerly to the southwest corner of the southr a<:t quarter of sE-ction 20. said township; thence northeTly to the really need a.ny particular attention in this connection begin northwest corner of the southeast quarter of said sP.ction; thence wPst- with the first enactment of lllOO. ratified in 1901 by the com­erly to the rno!re Jl!le between ran~es 5 anrl 6 ea~t; then_ce southerly mittee of the Cree]~ N:ttion. alon~ said range line to the southea.Rt corner of townshiP RO north, range 5 east; thence westerly alon~ tbe township line bPt:WN'n town- In order that the RECORD may show exactly the obligation, ships 2!) and 3U north to tbe southwl'st corner of sPction 33, town. h~p and the only obligation, which the United States Go,·ernment 30 nortb, range 5 t>ast: thence northerly to the northwel't corner of saH'I assumed at that time in resvect to the Creeks aud their prop­section : tben~:e wPsterly to tbe soutbwPst cornt>r of the SOtlfb~>a<:t quarter of section 20, said township: thence northi'Tly to tbe northwPst erty, I want to rend a portion of thnt net. which really wns a corn~>r of thE> soutbrnst quartPt' of said s~>ction; tbe~ce we~~Prl;v to the treaty, as it was subsequently ratified and becu.me a treaty. sonthwest corner of tbc nortbwl'"t qnartl'r of said sectiOn i tb(>nce p b 3 f th t t r~- f 11 northerly to 1 he noJ·thwt'st eorn~>r of R .Ill !'lection : thence wester y to the aragrap 0 a ac I'l.'flu.::t as <>- ows: southwrst corner of tbC' soutb~>ast quarter of section 20, townslllp ~0 All lands of snld tribe, except as herein provided, s.hall be allotted norlb. range 4 east: tbf'nce northerly to thP nor t hw~>st corner of the among, h"! citizens of the tribe by said commission o ns to ~he enrh southeast quarter of s ctlon 8, said township: tbrnce eaRterly to the an equal shnre of the whole in value, as neal'!y as may be, In m:1nner northeast cornPr of the southwest qn:utf'r of Sf'Ction 9. said town<:hlp; following: There sbaJl be allotted to Pnch citizen 160 ae1es of land­thenre northerly to the to\Vllsbip line betwPt>n township~ 30 and _:n bow1daries to conform to tbe Government sun'ey-wbich muy l.Je so­north· tbenct' easterly alona the sixth stanrlnrd parallPl north, allowmg 1 leetPd by him so as to include improvemPnts which belong to biro. for the proper ofl'sets. to the sonthwC>st corner of SC'{'tion 3a, township I Ont' hundred and sixty act·es of land, valued at $6.50 per ncre, shall 31 north rp.nge 4 enst: tbPnce nortberlv to the nortbwel't cot·ner ot constitute the standard value of an aJiotment, and shaJI be tbe moaslll'e section 2i saicl township; thence Pa<:tPr}y to the range line betwern for tbe equalization Of values; and any nllottee I'CC'eiving lnnds vf leSS ran es 4 and 5 east; thence nortbt>rly along said rnnge line to the than snch standard value may, nt any time, select otbl'l' lands which norFhw!'st co1·ner of fractional sPctlon 18. township :n north, range 5 at tbelr appraised value are S11tficient to make his allotment equal in east; thencE:. e::tstt'J•ly to thP southwt>s.t cornPr of !='ection 12. said town- value to the standard so fixed. ship; tbPnce northPriy to thE' northwp~t c<;rrner of ~ction 1· salrl town- Then in the next paraaraph we find the f::>llowinoo • ~:~llip · thence pastt>t•lv nlon~ the township liD<' hetw~Pn townships ~1 anr'l o o • 32 n~rth to the norlh~>ast corner of s~>ctlon 3, township 31 north, ran~e U any citizen select lands, the appraised value of which for n.ny 6 east the place of beginning, are herpby rPServrd and witbdrnw.n from reason 1s In excess of such standard value, the ex{'ess of value Rhall be settlement, occupancy, disposal, or sale, under the lnws of the United., c-harged against hlm in the future dlstributlon of the funds of the tribe

1014. OONGRESSION .AL RECORD-HOUSE. 11473 arisln~r from all sources wbatsoev~>r, and be shall not receive any far­ther distributio.n of property or funds of the tribe until all other citi­zens have received lands and money equal in value to bis allotment. If any citizen select lands, the appraised value of which Is In excess of such standard value, he may pay the ove1·plus in money; bot if be fail to do so, the same shall be charged against bim in tbe future dl ·trilmtion of the funds of the tri~ arising from all sources whatso­ever. and he shall not receive any further distribution of property or funds until all other citizen~ shall have received lands and funds equal in va lue to his allotment; and if there be not sufficient funds of the trill to make the allotments of all other citizens of the tribe equal in value to his, then the snrplus shall be a lien upon the rents and profits of hls allotment nntil paid.

Clearly and de:fu:iitely the United States Government as trus-_ tee or guardian o•ei' these Indians and their property under­took, and undertook alone. to distribute their pro{)erty among them, and as a standard set 160 acres at nn appr~ised value of $G.u0 an acre, and agreed that if any of the allottees received la ... d rrreater in Talne than that he should pay back into the common fnnd belonging to the tribe a surplus -.alue. and if any of the allottees had not. receh·ed an allotment of the standard value of $1,040 he should have a l'ight in the surplus that should be al1otted to any fa-.ored allottee. Thnt wns the agreement of J901. That was all the obligation assumed by the United States Government. There is not a word said about the Government guaranteeing to any allottee that his allotment would be of nny particular value. There is not a worn said that if any allottee recei-.ed an allotment le~s in value than $1,040. that out of the United States Trensury there should be taken funds to compE>.n­sa te llim; but there is. in fact, provided a specific method by which one who has not receiYed $1.040 shnll n~t be compensated merely by taking from n more favored allottee the surplus he has recei-.ed ::~bove $1,040 and that shall be gi-.en to the less­favored allottee.

Ur. STEPHE:XS of Texas. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. 1\fiT,LER. Certainly. Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. I desire to ask the gentleman this

question: As I understand the gentleman's statement and from the renmng. tlH' mnxinmm pri<'P w·1s $fl fiO pPr acre. Was not the minimum price $1.25 per acre for the land?

Mr. MILLER. There is no minimum price stated. I do not thjnk there was a maximum and a minimum mentionoo, Mr. Chairman.

1\Ir. STEPHENS of Texas. It was tixed at $1,040, was it not? -

l\fr. MILLEn. The allotment of 160 acres of the standard value of $6.50 made a standard allotment of $1,040.

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. And no land c.ould be appraised at less than $1.25 an fl.Cl'e?

fr. l\Hl.LER. I think that is true. 1\fr. STEPHE1 TS of Texas. Is it not a fa-ct, further. that a

great many Indians lived back in the hills-they were full-blood Indians-and they got that $1.25; and the land ran up to $6.50, and the officers under the treaty and nuder this bill undertook to equalize the allotments by issuing certificates and due bills, stnting at the he.."ld of it that the man. so-and-so. had receh-ed $1,040. and that the land was valued at so many dollars. and the bt1lance dne to the Indian was so much, and the lnnd was half­way between the two prices; in other words, medium land?

Ur. diLLER. Tbat is right. :Mr. srrEPHENS of Texas. These Indians have those due

bills to-day. Does not the gentleman think we ought to have some kind of legislation to equalize these allotments and make payments?

Mr. MUJ ... ER. I think so. I think we shouJd have Ie(J"isla­tion to eq11alize these allottees, just as far as the funds of the tribe will go. But there is not the slightest obligation on the part of tile United States Government to go into its own pocket and giYe any gratuity to any Creek allottee, no matter what he receives.

l\!r. STEPHE~ rs of Texas. As I understand. a great deal of this land is worth $6.50 an acre, but many of these lands were worth hundreds of dollars per acre?

.Mr. MILLER. I was coming to that.

.Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. I hope the gentleman will dis­cus that.

:Mr. MILLER. I will di cuss it at this point. While the standard value is fixed at lf6.50. and the provision I haYe read will show that it can not be appraised at a higher value than that, yet as a matter of fact many of the lands were worth as much as $100 an acre, and therefore the allotments would be worth 16,000.

Mr. HUM_PHREY of \Vashiugton. :Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield, so that I can make an observation?

The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman yield? Mr. MILLER. Yes.

l\Ir. HUMPHREY of"Washington. I want to make the obser­vation that there are now six Democrats in their seats. If ever there was a farce it is now.

.1\lr. FOSTER. Probably they an heard that the gentleman was about to make a speech. [Laughter.]

Mr. HUMPHREY of Washington. No; I am not going to mn ke a speech.

l\Ir. FOSTER. They did not want to hear any more calamity howling.

1\Ir. 1\IILLER. Mr. Chairman, I think I have the floor. The CHA.IRUAN. The gentleman from Minnesota (Mr.

MILLER] has the floor. Mr. HU~IPHREY of Washington. Mr. Chairman, I think

I will mn ke the point of no quorum. 1\lr. MILLER. I hope the gentleman will withhold it until

I ba ve finished my speech. Mr. HL'MPHREY of Washington. I will withdraw It until

the gentlem:m has finished his remarks. llr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman, thnt was the agreement In

19<!1. Those frrmiliar with the conditions in the Fi,·e C1Yilized Tr1bes no doubt haYe in mind tbe circumstances surrounding the. enactment into law of the supplemental agreement of 1902. It 1s not necessary, therefore, to go into the consideration of the circumstances leading up to or sm;,rounding the making of. th.at law or the making of that trenty or the circumstances P.Xlstmg before that. However, referring to that supplemental agreement of 1902, I beg to invite the attention of the com­mittee to the following language, applicable to the matter now ~nder consideration. Tbe section which I read a moment ago m the act of 1901 was amended by the supplemental agreement of 1902, so that the paragraph I quoted shall read as follows:

All lands belongin~ to the Crt'ek Tribe of Indians in Indian Terri­tory, except. town s1tes and lands reserved for Creek schools and c~~rcbes, railroads, and town Cl'meteries, In accordance with the pro~ VISions of the act of. Congress app.~·ovt'd March 1, 1!)01 ( 31 Stat. L., 8Gl), shall .be appra1S(>(] at not to excerd $6.50 per acre, excluding only lawful Improvements on lands in actual cultivation.

By paTagraph 2 of seetion 3 the agreement rntified by said act of Congress approved March 1. 1H01, is amended, and as so amended is reenacted to read as follows:

If any cltizen select land::: the appraised value of which Is $G.50 per acre. he shall not reeetve any further distribution of property or funds of the. trihe until all othl'r citizens have received lands and moneys eqnal m value to his allotment.

The CHAIR~1AN. The time of the gentleman from Minne­sota hn s expired.

1\lr. l\IILLER. Can I ha-.e a little more time? Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. How much time does the t)'en-

tleman from Minnesota desire? e.

l\lr. MILLER. I would like to haYe about 10 minute more. Mr. BURKE of ~outh Dakota. 1\Ir. Chairmnn, I yield to

the gentleman 10 mrnutes more. The CHAilll\IAN. The gentleman from Minnesota [:\Jr.

1\iiLLER] is reeognized for 10 minutes. Mr. !\fiLLER. In other words, Mr. Chairman, the preceding

agreement was amended to this extent. that no land should be appraised at higher than $6.50 an acre no matter whether it was worth a thousand dollars an acre. and the committee is no doubt aware that many of those lands were sHunted adjacent to the city of Muskogee, the second In rgest city in Oklahoma. Many of the lands were platted in town sites, and those lnnds adjacent thereto became and were of high value. They were allotted.

Now, these allottees that had receiTetl nllotments that were of the value of ~6.000 or $18,000 or $20 000, the land haYing, howe•er, an apprmsed value of less thnn $6.5H an acre, now come ar01md and want the United Stntes Government to pay them something. The colossal nerve of the proposition is so stag("Per­ing that the human mind falls down in a faint before it. I h~-.e marveled, Mr. Chairman, time and time again, at the strength and fortitude of men who stnnd before our committee :mel really ask that this legislation be passe.j .

There is one thing further to be noted in this change made by the supplemental a~eement of 1902. It is that a mnn who has received land in \alue greater than $1.040 does not baYe to pay one penny of it back. Under the original agreement of 1901 if a man received an allotment worth $16.000, but appraised at $1,040, he would have to pay some back if some less-favored allottee had recei•ed less than $1,040. But not so by this. We ~an well understand why the Creeks were eager and willillg and anxious to ratify the supplemental .... grcement. We actually bought them by g:i-.ing to them that consideration and conces­sion. I think tbe chairman of our committee is well informed when he says that many of the 1ess-:fuv-ored allottees were the full-blood Indians who lived in the hills and who now ow.:l the

~1474 _CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-;-HOUSE. JULY 1,

less ,-aluable lands. Those who lived in the lowlnnds were gi\eu a prior right under the agreement to take the land upon which they lived nnd hnd made improvements. We all know that the full bloods are inclined to li•e back in the country, up nmong the bills, and they certainly came out second best in thi situation. · Bnt, 1\Ir. Chairman, the Creeks themselves asked that they

keep in their own pockets the money that, under the agreement of 1901, they said Ehould make up to the less-fa>ored allottees for their deficiencies. ~ow, what right have they in conscience to come, after they have pocketed these untold millions of dol­lars, and ask that the United States Government gi\e them an additional sum out of its own Treasury?

I stated at the outset that this proposition continued to recur at frequent intervals. It seems pretty difficult to knock it down nnd have it stay dow11. But if we make appropriate inquiry we can find why. These little slips that many of them received, which the distinguished chairman of this committee, the gentle­man from Texas [Mr. STEPHENS], bas just mentioned, were not retained by the Indian allottees at all. They were bought up for a few cents by speculators, and those speculators are the ones who will get any money that may be appropriated for this purpose.

But tbere is another group of individuals eager and anxious for tbe United States 'Treasury to be opened up again. There are numerous attorneys who have contracts with these people on a percentage basis, varying from 10 to 50 per cent, and it is a pretty big, fat fee they have in prospect. There are two classes of tbese attorneys. One set of them are contractors with the Creek Tribe. As a matter of fact, this claim is that of the Creek Nation, not of its individuals, against the United States. There are no obligations to individuals, and none could be spelled If there is any obligation, it is to the nation. These attorneys have contracts with the Creek Nation for 10 per cent. This thing aggregates about $7,000,000, and $700,000 is a pretty good sum in these bard Democratic times.

ThP-y also have contracts with the individuals for another 10 per cent-$100,000 more. Many of these additional contracts with individuals run up as high as 50 per cent. If this bill should pass, I want to tell you that there would be amazing prosperity among some of the attorneys of the Southwest, in­cluding some here in Washington.

Now, there is one thing further, 1\Ir. Chairman, that to my mind is conclusive in this matter. Even if these other features to which I have called attention are not conclusive to the minds of some gentlemen--

.Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. Will the gentleman yield? 1\Ir. 1\IILLER. I will be pleased to yield. Mr. STEPHEXS of Texas. I see that before the Senate

finally passed this amendment they cut out all reference to at­torneys' fees, except they provide that the attorney for the nation shall attend to the business in bringing this suit, and so forth, and they prescribe how the suit shall be brought.

Mr. MILLER. Yes; but the chairman of the committee well kn.ows thRt the bill is silent and must be silent as to the con­tracts of the attorneys with the individuals, and that is where the big money is.

The other feature to wWch I wish to call attention is this: There was plenty of land and there were plenty of dollars be­longing to the Creek people, so that every member of the tribe could get an allotment to the standard value of $1,040, untU 1905, when the Creek Nation, recognizing that it had this large surplus, passed a re olution which came to the Go>ernment of the United States, and as a result thereof this Congress enacted into law their request, which was that we should allot 2,920 new­born children. born subsequent to the agreement of 1901. So by the act of 1\Iarch, 1905, followed by another act of April, 1906, we, in respono:a and obedience to their .request, enrolled their newborn cru~dren to the number of 2,920. We ga>e them allot­ments as they requested. Now, it is by reason of this that there do not remain sufficient surplus lands to ghe them all a quantity of land which on its face value has been appraised at $1.0-!0. They go further now, and they even ask that if any of these babies did not receive an allotment equal to $1,040, we pny them out of the Treasury of the United States enough to make up the difference, although it was because of the a11otment to these babies that their surplus lands were exhnusted. Why, this is consciencele s begging, piled step upon step, until it is higher than the Washington 1\lonument. I have listened to u great many rotten schemes, based on Indian laws and treaties, argued before committees of this House, but in all sincerity I can sny that to ~Y mind I have ne\er yet heard of one so absolutely without merit, so absolutely devoid of conscience, as tbis Creek equalization matter.

Now, l\Ir. Chairman, the Uniteu States Government assumed that it would distribute the property c!' these Indians among their membership as equitably as it could. You can neYer dis­tribute land with absolute equality among thousands of people. One piece of land here is better than another piece of laud there. A piece of land to-day may be worth $1,000 and to­morrow $10,000. A piece of land to-day may look as though it was worth 50 cents an acre, and oil may be discoyered upon it to-morrow and its value enormously increased. ·we can not get absolutely mathematical justice in the distribution of land among the-people who own it in common. All we can do is to exercise our best judgment and deal ju tly and honestly, and we have so acted in every respect as regarrls the Creeks an11 their lands. We have allotted them as equitably as we could. When they asked that their newborn children be allotted, w-e responded and gave them the allotment, a natural and proper thing to do. We have not in our Treasury one penny of their property that is not in their name. We have not in our pos­session one foot of their land that is not in their name. We will distribute that among them equitably nncl fairly. They ha>e in their treasury to-day about $3.800,000. That surplus should be used to allot as equitably as possible those who baYe been the least favored among them; but I would not go into the United States Treasury for one cent, and I hope this House will stand pat on one thing, if we hRve to stay here until dooms­day, and that is never to agree to this a.illendment.

1\!r. STEPHENS of Texas. Will the gentleman yield? • 1\Ir. MILLER. Certainly. Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. The gentleman is aware that a

few years ago, I think in 1908, we passed a bill providing that $800 should be considered an equalization of land instead of $1,040, and it is proposed to take the money that is now in the United States Treasury to equalize these demands on a basis of $800. On the advice of the attorneys the gentleman has spoken of, the Indians rejected this offer on the part of the Government, and therefore the matter st..nds as it is to-day. As I have said to the gentleman, the Senate bas wisely, I think, eliminated all reference to attorneys and provided that the case shall be carried out by the United States itself through the regular attorneys.

Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. Mr. Chairman, I yiehl one minute to the gentleman from Washington [1\Ir. HUMPHREY].

Mr. HUl\:lPHREY of Washington. Mr. Chnirmnn, a few mo­ments ago I called attention to the fact that few l\I(>mbers were present on the other side of the House, and stated that when the gentleman from Minnesota had finished I would make the point of no quorum. But, Mr. Chairman, inasmuch as there are gentlemen on this side of the House who wish to speak, I shall not make the point, for I do not care to interfere with them if they want to talk.

But I want to call attention to the further fact tbat the di -tinguished Speaker has been here the most of the day and upon the floor, and the distinguished gentleman from Alabama [:\Ir. UNDERWOOD], as usual, is here attending to business; but if you look upon the other side of the House you will not see a single 'Vhite House favorite here. These gentlemen who are clamor­ing for Congress to stay in session in order that they may legis:­late are not here, and even my distinguished friend from I11i­nois, Dr. FOSTER, · who made some facetious remarks, left the floor. I want to emphasize the fact that the .Members who do stay here and attend to business are not the Executive favorites.

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. 1\lr. Chairman, I yield half a minute to the ~entleman from Oklahoma [llr. CARTER].

Mr. CARTER. 1.\Ir. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to extend my remarks in the RECORD.

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Oklahoma ask nnau!­mous consent to extend his remarks in the RECORD. Is thet·e objection?

There was no objection.

MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE.

The committee informally rose; and Mr. LEVY having taken the chair as Speaker pro tempore, a message from the Senate, by Mr. Tulley, one of its secretaries, announc d that the Senate had passed with amendments bills of the followiug title , in which the concurrence of tbe House of Representative was re­quested:

H. R. 12014 . . An act granting pensions and increase of pen ions to certain soldiers and sailors of tlle Civil · 'Var and certnin widows and dependent cbildren of soldiers and sailors of snirl war;

H. R. 13542".· .An act granting pension :uiu increase of pensions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Civil War ana cerlain

1914.• CONGRESS! ON AL RECORD-HOUSE. 11475 widows and dependent children of soldiers and 'Sailors ot -said . mation homestead -entries, to lands in the · Flathe::td· irrigu lion war; project, Montana;

H. TI.13297. An act granting pensions a1ld inc1'eruie of pensions · S. '2400. An act for the relief of Elsie McDowell Bunting; to certain soldiers and sailors of the Regular Army and Navy, S. 58n9. An act granting pension :nnd increase of pensiong to and certain soldiers nnd snilors of wars other than the Civil certain soldie1·s and sailors of the Regular· Army and Navy .flnd War, and to widows of such soldiers and sailors~ of wars other than the Civil War, and to certain widows and

H. R. 13920. An act granting pensions~ increase of penSions dependent r.elatives of such soldiers .and sailors; to certain soldiers and sailors of the Regular Army and Navy, S. 5843. An act granting pensjons and increase of pensions to and certain soldiers and :sailors of wn1·s other than the Civil certain soldiers and sailors of the Civil War and certain widows War~ and to widows of such soldiers and sailors; and dependent relatives of such soldiers and sailors;

H. R. 14234. An act granting pensions and increase of pensions · S. 5"575. n act granting pensions and increase of pensions to to certain soldiers and sailol'S of the Civil WaT and certain certain soldiers and sailors of the Ci>il War and certain widows widows and dependent children of soldiers and sailors of said and dependent J:el:atives of Stl.Cb soldier :md sailoi'S; war; S.1802. An act construing the provisions of section 8 of the

H. R. 14546. An a.et granting pensions and increa-se of pensions act entitled ·"An ':let to imJ)rov:e the .efficiency of the personnel to certain solmers and sailors of the Regular Army and N.avy, of the Revenue-Cutter Service," approved April 16, 1903; and and certain soldiers and sailors of wars other than .the Civil S. 1653. An act providing against the a~<tndonment of desti-War, and to widows of such soldiers .and .sailor.s; -rote, inftrm~ o.r ·aged parent&

H. R. 14738. An act granting pensions -and increase of pensions Too message also announ.ced that the Senate bad passed to certain soldiers and sailors of the Civil War and certain without amendment bills .of the following titl-es: widows and dependent chlld.ren of sold1ers and sailors of sa'id H. R 493'8. 'An act providing for the issuance .of pate-nts to war; ttansfe.r.ees of town lots purchased from the United States .at

H. R.-15071. An act granting pensions and increase of pensions pnb.Jie sale m certain eases; and to certain soldiers and sailors of tile Regular Army and Navy,

1

H. R.16192. An act to authorize the issuance of patent to and certain sold1ers and sailors of wars otber than the Civil Raehe El Dangerfield Boast for the southeast quarter of sec­War, and to widows of such soldiers and .sallors; tion 21 .and the northeast ,quat·ter of secti.on 28, to..wnshtp 1

B. R. 15504. All act granting pensions .and increase o0f pen- .sontb, range 57 west of the sixth principal meridian. sions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Regular Army ~and INDIAN APPROPRIATION .BILL Navy, and certain soldiers and sailors of war.S other than the Civil War, and to widows of such soldiers and sailors; and

H. R.15692. An act granting pensions nnd increase of -pen­sions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Civil War and ~er­tain widows and dependent children of .soldiers and saUors .of said war.

The me ~age also announced that the Senate baa still further insisted tlpon its amendments to the bill (H. R. 15279) making appropriations for the legislative. executive. and judicial ex­penses of the Government for the fiscal year ending Jane 30, 1.915, and for other purposes, disagreed to by the iloUBe of Rep. resentati'\"'es, had agreed to the further conferenee asked by the House on the disagreeing votes of. tile two Houses thereon, and had appointed Mr. l\iARTIN~ Mr. OVERJ.L\N, and Mr. WARREN as the conferees on the part of the Senate. . . ~ message from the Senate, by Mr. 'l'uJJey, one of Its de:rks,

announced that the Senate had passed bills of the following titles. in · wbicb the concurrence of the House of Representa­th·es was reguested :

S. 655. An act n uthorizing the Secretary 'Of the Interl.or to survey the lands of the abandoned Fort Assinniboine Military Reservation and -open the sa me to settlement ;

S. 265L An aet pro~Viding for the purchase and disposal o1 certain lands containing kaolin, kaolinite, fuller's earth, and other minerals within portions of Indian reservn.tio.ns hereto­fore opened to settlement and entry ; . S. 3768. An act to r·estore Capt. Harold L. Jackson, retired, to

the active Ust of the Army; . S. Q43. An act to correct the military record of John T.

Haines; S. 2806. An act relative to tb.e appointment, pay., and rank .of

chlef warrant officers in the Revenue-CuttPr Serriee ; S . .5501. An act granting pensions .and increase of -pensions to

certain. soldiers and sail.ors of the Regular Army and Navy and of wars other than the Civil War, and to certain widows and dependent relatiYes of such soldiers and sailors;

S. 5446. An act granting pensions and increase of pensions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Civil War and certain widows and dependent relati-.es of such soldiel'S and sailo1·s;

S. 5278. An .act granting pensjons .tRnd increase of pensions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Regular Army and • ~a vy and of wars other than the Civil War, and to certain widows and dependent relath-es of such soldiers and sailors;

S. 5207. An aet granting pensions and increase of pensions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Ci'>il War and certain widows and dependent relatives of such soldiers and sailors;

S. 5978. An -aet to refund to the American Surety Co., ot New York, an amount paid by it to the United States under protest and to avoid the levy of an execution under a judgment against it, whlch judgment was subsequently re•ersed by the Supreme Court pf the United States;

S. 57-31. An -aet for the relief of William Cronley; S. 4441. An act to extend the provisions of the A-Ct of June 23,

1910 (36 Stats. L.., p. 592). autho:l'izing assignment of reclama­Uon homesteftd entries. nnd of the act .of August 9, 1912 (37 Stats. L., p. 265), authorizing the issuance -of patents on recla·

The rommittee restliDed its sessjon . . Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1.0 minutes

to the gentlemnn :from Oklahoma {Mr. MURRAY]. · .Mr.· MURRAY of Oklahoma. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman

Jrom Minnesota [Mr. MILLER], who spoke a moment ngo, has opposed the pro isi.on for the "Creek equa.lizatfon." It will be necessary to recite some of tbe history of this tribe to ·under­stand the purpose -of this provision put in by the Senate.

·In 1833 the Cl'eeks bcmght the land in the present State ot Oklahom~ .paying a valllilble consideration therefor, and secured a title 1n fee · in:qJle. In 18G6 the Government forced these Indians to adopt the negro aml·divide their lands with them. In later years a treaty was made whereby the community own­ership should ·be abolished and individual ownership should be taken. 'l'he gentleman from Minnesota seems to admit · there is ·a !legal claim against the Government, but none in equity. That would be true if the Gov-ernment had always been equitable. But when the Government forced these Indians to accept the negro ovet· th-eir protest and gire him an absolute equal division, the Government should not claim in equity an offset against the legal cln1m.

The facts were that the GoTel'lllllent proceeded to allot the.se lands, based upon several gradeS, as a matter of preferment. Where the Indian by reason of the grade did not get enough land to make $1.040 worth of property, the Government gave :him a due bill, reciting the amount of lands in value received and the amount yet due. ·

Now, it is true that later they allotted to the minor children· who bad been born after the agreement had been made. It is a <Ioubtful question whether the Creeks asked for it. It is true they passed a resolution, but it was not approved by the gov­ernor of th.e tribe, and would be invalid if he bad. But even if that be true, the question of equity in the whole transaction is on the side ot the Indians. ·

Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. 1\IURRAY :Of Oklahoma. Proceed. · Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. The gentleman stated th:it it

is true the Creek Council passed a resolution. but that it was not app1·oved by the governor. I think the gentleman ought to state to the House, in order to be fair, that the failure of the goYernor to veto the resolution or approve it within five days made the resolution operati>e.

l\fr. MURRAY of Oklahoma. That may be true under the Creek constitution, but that does not apply to a law governing the ownership of land. Moreover, at that time e..-ery such reso­lution to be valid must be approved by the President of the United States. It only applies to those things wherein it ·refers to the action of the tribe, because the constitution of the Creek Nation can not -apply to matters of ownershlp where the gov­ernor necessarily reserves .under the later treaty the right of admin1stra tion. ·

1\Ir. STEPHENS of Texas. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. MURRAY of Oklahoma. Yes. Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. Has the gentleman heard that

Gen. Porter, who was chief at the time ·the bill was passed

11476 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE-. JULY 1,

modifying tWs act, had that bill in his possession and it was 1\Ir. JOHNSON of Washington. 1\fr. Chairman,- I" ask unani-found in hi~ desk nfter he died? mous consent to extend my remarks in the ·RECORD.

1\fr. MURRAY of Oklahoma. I have heard that . that was The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? true. Now, we are in this attitude : That it is admitted that the There was no objectiou. Indians hnve a legal claim, but it is charged that they have no Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. 1\Ir. Chairman, I move that th~

· equitab:e claim. committee do now rise. - Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. Will the gentleman state who l\lr. BURKE of South Dakota. Oh, I hope the gentleman

admits that they have a legal claim? will not moYe to rise yet. It is early in the day. There are Mr. 1\IURRAY of Oklahoma. I think the gentleman from two gentlemen who desire to be heard ou this side. I want to

1\finnesotn rl\Ir. MILLER] did. yield 20 minutes to the gentleman from Wyoming [Mr. MON· , Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. I will say to the gentle- DELL]. -man-- ·' l\lr. FORDNEY. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have 15 or

Mr. MURRAY of Oklahoma. I .can not yield, for I have not 20 minutes. time. 1\lr. BURKE of South Dakota. The agreement made in the

1\Ir. BURKE of South Dakota. I will give the gentleman House was that the balance of the day should be used in additional time. general debate.

1\Ir, l\IURRAY of Okhlhoma. .All right. 1\lr. FORDNEY. I would thank the gentleman if he would 1\fr. BURKE of South Dakota. The counsel for these Indians consent to giYe me 20 minutes.

before our committee have repeatedly said that there was no 1\Ir. STEPHENS of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my legal claim, but that it was an equitable claim. motion. , Mr. l\IURRA Y of Oklahoma. If that was true, it was before Mr. llAGSDALEJ. .After the 20 minutes allowed the other

I became a member of the commHtee. However, I will take the side, is it the gentleman's purpose to move that the com­gentleman's word for it. But let us see about this question mittee rise? · of equity. What are you going to do with the proposition that 1\Ir. STEPHENS of Texas. That would depend on what the Go\ernment took advantage after the Civil War of declar- transpires in the meantime. ing that these fiye tribes, because they joined the Confederncy, Mr. GARNER. There will be no other business conducted had forfeited their property and forced them to a division than general debate, I will say to the gentleman from So th with their ex-slaves? How is your equity going to jibe with Carolina. that? l\Ioreo>er, I say that this GoYernment occupies a Tery Mr. DONOVAN. 1\Ir. Chairman, did I understand the gentle­peculiar situation when it says that it . is unwilling to go into man from South Dakota to say that· when general debate is the white man's court in a battle between the Indian and the closed-is that the way he phrased it, or is the general debate white man to determine what the Indians' rights are. to be finished to-day? , I say thflt ·this Government ought not to -dispute even the Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. 1\Ir. Chairman, I wi11 say

right of nn Indian to haYe "his day in court," and the Govern- that the understanding was that general debate should be ment ought not to deny the right of an Indian either in equity limited to this day and that when general debate is concluded or in law to try out that question. He claims this right, and the committee shall rise. I yield 20 minutes to the gentleman he will continue to claim it, and we may as well settle it now, from Wyoming [Mr. 1\IoNDELL]. and it ought to be settled now· in order to settle finally those Mr. MO!\'TIELL. Mr. Chairman, the Indian bill is an exceed­affairs in the Creek Natio_n, when we understnnd there is more ingly important measure, and it now bas upon it many impor­than $1,000,000 tied up in the hands of the tribe that can not tant amendments, which I am glad to know are to be care­be distributed until this question is settled, and then when it fu11y considered by the Committee of the Whole. I did not, is settled, if anything is due by the Government. it will be paid. boweYer, rise for . the purpose of discussing this important bill,

I belie>e, Mr. Chairman. that this great Government, attempt- but rather to respond to a challenge which was hurled at me ing to do equity and justice to the nations of the earth, which by my genial friend, the gentleman from Alabama [1\lr. UNDER­in its generosity ga>e to China and to Mexico and proposes wooD], a few days since. that we will not claim indemnity for the loss of our soldiers In the course of some remarks I made on June 6 the gentle­and of great property in l\1exico, ought to comply with its legal man from New York [Ur. FITZGERALD]. interrupting me, referred obligations when it deals with its helpless wards, the American to some alleged happenings in the district of the gentleman Indians. from Alabama [1\lr. UNDERWOOD] during tte preparation of the

I do not think it lies in the mouth of any Representative Underwood tariff bill. In response I said. among other things, upon this .floor to deny that right-first, the right to be heard that I had hnppened to notice that those interested in the in a court, to ba>e their clay in court, and. second, the right to iron and steel industry. in the Birmingham district were insist­their Jegnl rights and their equitable rights-and this is all we ing that the foreign producer can, under the Underwood bill, Jay are pleading for. Let this question be settled, so that a final down steel in Mobile for less than they can make it, and that settlement can be made with those Indians and that tribal gov- the foreign steel men are inmding their markets. The gentle­ernment go out of existence. I, for one, am willing to go into man from Alabama arose and expressed the hope that I would the court Bnd determine that q~1estion. I belieYe that when a print in the RECORD the information I bad with regard to the hearing is hnd the Supreme Court of . the United States will de- industries of his district. and he challenged me to show "where clare in fa>or of a11 of the adult Indians. I do not think it will a ton of pig iron bas been landed at the port of Mobile from qeclare in fayor of the new born. They ought not to declare in an.v foreign country since the Payne law was repealed." I fayor of the freedmen; but in any case, whateYer it may be, let ca11ed the gentleman's attention to the fact thflt I had said there be n settlement. nothing about pig iron. He then said he would challenge me - The CIL.URl\IAN. The time of the gentleman from Oklahoma to show "that t11ere has been a steel rail or a p{>und of pipe or

has expired. a pound of steel that competes with the products of the Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. 1\Ir. Chairman, I yield one minute Birmingham district" imported.

more to the gentleman. Let me sny right here that I am reliably informed that at the 1\Ir. l\IURRAY of Oklahoma. 1\Ir. Chairman, with reference present time of 45 blast furnaces in the Stnte of Alabama all

to attorneys referred to, I am willing to put in a pro>ision here but 18 of them are idle. In otter words, 60 per cent of the that wil1 re~trict the pHying out of attorneys' fees. I am will- blast furnaces of that southern industrial coal and iron State ing that the attorney of the Creek Nation, Judge R. C. Allen, are i!lle at this time. That may be-it will be claimed thnt these shall handle that cnse alone. or I am willing that he may se1ect idle furnnces are not the result or the effect of the passage of an attorney ()f his choice. I care nothing for the attorneys that the Underwood tariff bill. but at least it bap11ens at a time ha>e worked up the case. As a matter of fact, their conduct on when the Underwood tariff biJl is on the statute books. other Indian matters hns been Yery reprehensible, both before The statement which I made in the running debate with the Congress and the country; but, irrespecti>e of that. these In- gentleman from New York [:\lr. FITZGERALD], which the gentle­dians are entitled to their rights; they are entitled to eYery man from Alabama [Mr. UNDERWOOD] took as the basis of his legal right nnd equitable right, and they are entitled to their challenge, was in recol!ection of a newspapei· article which I right to go into the courts of the country and haYe the matter bad read to the effect that imports had been mnde. or threat­determined, ,llld I trust tlwt Congress ,,.ill not attempt to deny ened, nt l\Iobile and elsewhere, which were disturbing the steel them those Yaluable rights possessed by every American citizen. men of the Birmingham district. · I do not hnppen to be able [Applnuse.l to put my bands on that particular paragraph, but in view

'l'be CHAIR~IAN. The time of the gentleman from Oklahoma of the formal challenge of the gentlemnn from .Alnb~ma that has expired. there hlld been no imports ;in competition with the procluctiou

, Mr. WfEPHENS of Texas. 1\Ir. Chairman, I . yield ~me of, the Birmingbmn district, I have taken the trouble to Ioo.tr minute to the gentleman from :Washington [.Mr. JoH-"'SON]. the matter up, and I shall present a few facts with regard to

1914. CONGRESSIONAL REC_QRD-__ E:OUSE. 11477

the situation which bad undoubtedly escaped th~ notice of the "'entlemun from Alabama with regard to. the menace to the industries of his district under the tariff bill which bears his name. The gentlemrm from Alabama challenged me to show that ·any steel rails had been imported in competition with the nroducts of the Birmingham district. I meet the gentleman's challenge with a clipping from the Galveston (Tex.) News, which is as follows:

ANTWERP RAILS AT GALVEJSTO~.

A shipment of 506 tons of steel rails from Antwerp, Belgium, intended for the San Antonio Traction Co., is now on the way to Galveston on board the stl:'amship H01·nb11 Castle, due to arrive. the early p~rt of May. '!'his will mark the arrival of the first cargo of tmported r::uls received in Galveston in 13 years, the shipment being made posRible by reason of the removal of duty. Th(' first shipment will be followed ~Y others, approximately 1,500 tons bavin~ been contracted for. The .ra1ls are 60 feet long and are grooved t•unnmg 1,843 pounds to the rail. (Galves­ton (Tex.) News of Apr. 2.)

Later advices are to the effect that the entire shlpment of 1.500 tons has arrived. The gentleman from Alabama [1\.lr. UNDERWOOD] is familiar with the industries of his district and the market which those innustries supply, and he will not of course deny that Galveston is within the nl'ltural trade district of Birmingham, and that I have presented midence of the importation of over 500 tons of steel from Antwerp in direct competition and into the local market of the Birmingham indus­tries. I have no doubt I cou~d find other illustrations of how Birmingham is losing its steel-rail business had I the time to irlvestigate the matter further. The gentleman from Alabama laid particular stress upon his claim that no importations had been made of pig iron in competition with Birmingham products.

Mr. LEVY. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield for a question? ·

Mr. l\10~TDELL. Yes. Mr. LEVY. Does the gentleman not think the depression is

cansed by l:be Interstate Commerce Commission withholding its decision in the rate case?

Mr. MOXDELL. I doubt if this condition has anything to do with rates. I think if the rates were increased from Birming­ham to Galveston, it would make it still more difficult for Birmingham to compete with the products of Antwerp and Scotland.

Mr. LEVY. But it prevents the railroads, does it not, from purchnsing at the present time-holding up this rate decision for over two years? ·

l\Jr. MOXDELL. Yes; perhaps so; but it does not change the fact that when people do buy they buy from foreigners un­der vresent conditions. I ronde no reference to pig iron in my statement; but. ne\'ertheless, I am prepared to show that the gentleman from Alabama is as inaccurate in regard to pig iron as be is in regHrd to steel rails.

Along the Delaware River, in the vicinity of Phlladelphla, are extensive cast-iron-pipe mnnufacturing industries. These cast­iron-pipe makers h:we heretofore bought southern pig iron to make into pipe; they are now buying their pig iron from Nova Scotia. as indicated by the following clipping fram the Daily Iron Trade, under dnte of April 6, us follows: WABA..."iA IRO:S HERE--DELAWARE Rl\ER PIPE MAKERS GET SHIPME...I'iT FROM

NEWFOU~DL.L...,D.

[By wire.] PHILADELPHIA, Apt'il 6.

The first car~o of Wabana, Newfonndland, pig iron, which has hPen expected for several weeks. arrived here to-day, involving about 3,500 tons, principally for Delaware RivE.'r pipe makE.'l's.

This Wabana pig iron· is made in Nova Scotia from iron mined in Newfoundlnnd. This shipment was announced, as you will note, as the first shipment of this kind, but it was not the last. A cargo of nbout 1.000 tons arrh·ed n few days later at Bridgeport. Conn., and a se ond cargo at Philadelphia, the size of which I have been unable to learn. I hnve, however, in­formation with regard to a third cm·go, which is certainly big enough to make the Birmingham pig-iron manufacturers sit up and tnke notice. and I desire to rend a clipping from the Daily Iron Trude, under date of :\lny 11, which is as follows: WABANA InO~ CO:MES-THIRD CAllGO SINCE UOVE~IE~T BEGaN DOCKS AT

PHI LADELPIIIA.

[Staff conespondence.] PHILADELPHIA, May 11.

·The steamer Heathcote bas sailed from Sydney, Nova Scotia, for Philadelphia. with a cargo of about 35,000 tons of Wabana pia iron whirb is to be applif'd ngainst recent :>ales made in this dist1·ict, iugely to cast-iron-pipe makers. Tbig makes the third car?o of this i!·on to come to this conntr:v since the movement began. A cnn~o which re­cently came in at Bridgeport, Conn., was small and contained only a little more than 1,000 tons. The other two cargoes docked at Phila­delphia.

Here is a single shipment of 35.000 tons of pig iron, depriv­ing southern furnaces of a market f~r that amount, and yet the_

g~ntleman from the Birmingham district [1\Ir. UNDERWOOD] is so little informed as to what is going on that he· does not know about these inroads on the industries of his district. _ So much for Birmingham's immediate market. - What is the

situntion with regard to the market on the Pacific coast, where Birmingham has a very considerable advantage oter other Ailler­ican producers? The Seattle (Wash.) Times of ApriL2 con­tnins a notice of the arrival at Seattle of a British >essel from Antwerp and Glasgow with 8,000 pieces of rod and bar· fron. This is in a market which Birmingham ought to control.

Not only are Birmingham's natural markets being i.llvaded by Antwerp and Nova Scotia, but the Iron Trade Review, under date of l\fay 25, makes the following announcement of the impor­tation of rails from Inclia:

lKDIAN RAILS WILL BE IMPORTED--VERY LOW MAN"GFACTURI~G COST.

NEW YORK, May !?5. Indian rails will Invade the western coast of the United States fot·

the first time within the next two weeks, when the initial car~:o pro­duced for buyers in this country by the Tata Iron & Steel Co., at Sakchi, will be received. . .

Official announcement of this fact was made before the American Ironr and Steel ,Institute a~ New York last week by Charles P. Perin, ?f Nt>w York C1ty, consultmg engineer of tbe India company; who has JU!lt r~turned from a trip to the works. 1\!r. Perin stated that the reduction of the tariff on rails bas helped considei'nbly to enable his company to ship rails to this country, but he also outlined the astound­ln_gly low manufacturing and operating costs of the Tata Co. The 7,000 native laborers of the company receive 7 and 8 cents wap;es a day. · Coke can be manufactured at $1 a ton, and It·on ore is laid down in the stock bouse at a remarkably low cost per unit.

Let us recall the fact that these importations are being made at a time when steel rails and pig iron have reached I think almost if not the lowest point in our history. If pig' iron ha~ ever been lower than it is now, it was for a very brief period some years ago, and still these importations are comino-.

Birmingham has an advantage, -it is true, o>er th~ balance of the United States in its readily accessible coal and iron ore and its cheap bJack labor. but even Birmingham will hardly be able to_ compete with the Bombay product. It is not strange that Belgmm is able to export steel rails in competition with American rails, for the skiJled rollers who made the rails de­livered at San Antonio did not receive to exceed a dollar a day, and probably less, while the average American wage for work of that kind is from $3 to $4 per day. When one begins to compare these wages with the wages paid in India it is not ditl:icult to understand how impossible it will be for Ametican mills, even in Alabama, to compete without a reduction in wages.

The district of the gentleman from Alabama is in the midst of a cotton-producing country. - It ought to produce the bulk of the cotton ties used in the United States· in fact thev are well equipped for that work, both at Birmingham and Atlimta · but with free cotton ties, we are informed by the staff colT~ spondence of the Daily Iron Trade that British cotton-tie makers are manufacturing for our market and are very hopeful of getting a large share of the cotton-tie business. The Daily Iron Trade, published at Cleveland, Ohio, in an editorial under date of April 28; makes the following pertinent observations with regard to the present situation, comparing them to condi­tions under the Democratic administration of Groyer Cleveland:

The Cleveland administration was swept out of office in 18!)6 by an angry Amt>rican people, whose eyes were op<'ned to the emptiness of high-sounding platjtudes to fill empty stomachs.

William McKinley, foremost consistent advocate all his life of a " pr~tective. taril! for. American industries," was placed in the presi­dential chair. 1he Dmgley Jaw was passed and prospet·ity again re­turned, but only after long months of wt>ary waiting until the final effects of the Cleveland disaster wet·e wiped out.

Until this day wages hav(' remain<'d at the high figure established nnder the Dingley law, later replaced by the Payne law, until to-day puddlers are t·eceiving the minimum of $5.85 a ton. Steel billets are quotPct at $20 to $~1, and Bes:::;emer pig Iron is selling at $14.90, l'i ttsburgh. ·

How, then, with the present high rate of wages paid and the present c~:nparatively higher prices of ste~l products, is it possible fot· Amencan manufacturers to compete w1th foreign makers in tb~ various mukets of the wo1·ld?

It is not only impossible but it is becoming daily more certain that 1t will be difficult for American manufacturers to retain their bold upon their own domestic trade. A sample •·eason fot· this difli­culty is found in that ttem telling of Bt·itish mills rolling cotton ties to-day for use in American cotton fields.

Alabama and Tennessee pig iron, formerly used by cast-iron-pipe con­cerns at Philadelp bin, is being displaced by Canadian pig iron of equal quality and of lower price.

Belgian ,ctrder ralls are being imported ut .Galveston for use in Texan street railways.

Belgian bars and British pig Iron are beirlsz: unloaded at Seattle and San Francisco at a far Iowet· price, as now figured back to Pittsburgh, than DO cents, mill, Pittsburgh, for the 'bars.

In the meantime Canada, wilo once prayed reciprocity with us, has shut out our ba1·dJy earned tin-plate trade with a tight tariff wall, with the result that Welsb tin-plate makers will again rejoice over their return of prosperity tllrougb Canadian influence.

Is it any wonder that Mr. Redfield no longer talks about foreign im­ports falling to "flood the country," but instead is audibly praying oo.

11478 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-~ ·HOUSE. JULY 1,

the stump durin" his present tour of tbe West" that the Interstate Com­merce Commissi;n wiJI grant . the Tailroads,a rate advance,.so tha~ any little help like this may aid the country s business nnd the Wilson­Bryan admi.~istration be saved fro~ disaster nert November"/

You might imagine from the easj optimism of the gentleman from Alabama [Mr. UNDERWOOD] that whatever might be hap­pening in the balanee of the country, the . Birmingham district and its industries are n.Il right. It is possible that the gentleman from Alabama has gotten the two Birminghams contused. If he was thinking of or talking about Birmingham, England, he might Yery tl~uthfully assert a condition of great prosperity. But it is a prosperity, to a certain extent at least, at the cost of the prosperity of Ur. UNDERWOOD's Birmingham and other iron and steel centers, as indicated by the following clipping from the London Iron Monger of April 4 :

BIRMINGHAM'S TRADE BOOM.

Evidence of the growth of trade between this country and the United States as a result of the reduction of tariff is afl'o-rded in the statistics of declared exports from Birmingham district, issued on A-pril 2.. The total value of all shipments from Birmingbrun, Redctitch, and Kidder­minster during the first quarter of the year was £295,096, an increase of 40 per cent on the shipments for tile corresponding quarter of last. yca.r. Tbe number of Invoices declared at the Birmin_gbam consulate showed an Increase or 20 per cent ()Ver the number declared last year, while the in.crea.ses from Redditch and Kiddet·minster were 10 per cent and 15 per cent, respectively. That sbow.s that in each town a 'number of additional firms have opened up accounts with the United States.

This statement of the state of Birmingham, .England, iron trade indicates a marked contrast between conditions there and the iron and steel trade of the United States. Not only are for­eigners securing a foothold in our markets, but th~ are pre­paring to hold them by adopting methods .and ma~n.g pn~es which will insure them an increasing trade m competition with our mills and furnaces. While Birmingham, England. increases her shipments to the United States, our exports are decreasing. While Birmingham, England, is giving steady emp~oyment to her people, A.merican mills and furnaces are largely 1dle. Only recently the N.ational Tube Co. closed its mills and furnaces at McKeesport, Pa., at Lorain, Ohlo, and at B~wood, W: Va., throwing 2.500 men out of employment. There ts not a lme of American ~·on or steel industry that is not feeling the adverse effect of the Underwood tariff bill. Idle men and idle mills .are the rule everywhere. As a sample of the conditions in the conn­try . I am assured that a reeeut v~ry careful estima~e of the number of steel and iron workers m Youngstown, Ohio, out of employment placed the number at 5,000. In the meantime t~e prosperity whi<'h was promised under the Und&wood tanff bill seems to ba>e developed, not within the boundary of the United States but at Bombay, at Antwerp, and Birmingham, England, and in Nova Scotia, w.bere the Dominion Steel Co. is Jiuhting new furn:lces to help fill American orders. 0

I have met the challenge of the_ gentleman from Alabama; I have shown him how the trade of his district is being cuxtailed, its markets in\·aded. I should like to know what the gentleman from ..Alnbama bas to say about it. [Applause.] .

1\Ir. STAFFORD. Mr. Chairman, th~ gentleman from South Dakota [~r. DUBKE] left the time in my charge, and I now yield 20 minutes to the gentleman from .Michigan [~Ir. FOR]). NEY).

1\fr. KE~EDY of Connecticut. 1\lr. Chairman. I raise the point of order thnt there is no quorum present.

Mr. STAFFORD. 1\Ir. Chairman, I hope the gentleman will withliOld that for 20 minutes, as the gentleman from Michigan desires to leave the city to-rr:.orrow--

Mr. FORDNEY. 1 will thank the gentleman if he will with­hold his point.

Mr. KENNEDY of Connecticut. Mr. Chairman. I have lis­tened to about all of this calamity bowling that I want to hear.

1\lr. STAFFORD. Mr. Chairman, it is hardly fair, in view of the fact that it was understood we would proceed this after­noon on general debate on this bill, for the gentleman to raise that objection. and I hope he can see his way clear to withdraw it. We rertP.inly have tlle pridlege of speaking on any subject pertaining to the Nation, and this point of order mjght have been made an hour ago, and I hope the gentleman will at least allow the gentleman to proceed with his remarks, as he is going to leave the city. After the gentleman shall have concluded his remarks, we will' then have no objection to the committee rising.

l\Ir. KE....~NEDY of Counectieut. Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my point.

Mr. FORDl\"EY. 1\Ir. Chairm:;m and gentlemen, I will ~on­fine my remarks to the subject of an industry which has been materially affected by recent legislation.

President \\,....llson is quoted in the papers as basing said that if it is shown by the report of the present inYestigating com­mittee that the domestic sugar industry . ~n not Sl,lcceed . }Vith­out protection, it is a hothouse industry and mnst go.

The President either sjngles out the domestic sugar industry to be discriminated against, or else the same reasoning must apply to all American industries; that is, , if they ean not survive without tariff protection, they are hothouse industries and must go.

The President contends that conditions in America are artificial and not naturai. Did be ever stop to think that wages anJ the standard of living for our laborers are abnormally high? As laborers in our domestic sugar industry and other American manufacturing establishments receive an average of about two and one-half times the wages paid to the sam~ class of labor in Europe, from the President's course of reasoning it would appear that hothouse wages exist in this country-wages made possible by tariff protecti()n from foreign cheap labor and no other cause. What makes the sugar industry, as the President calls it, a hothouse industry? Have we less farming land sujt­able for raising beets? Is our land less productiYe? The in­dustry needs protection on account of the cost of labor, which is equally true of other American institutions. Ameiican labor­ing men are accustomed to a high standard of living. They would not tolerate conditions of labor existing in some foreign countries with whom we must compete. Hothouse wages h.a.Ye brought about hothouse industries and hothouse habits for our workingmen. I favor hothouse wages and the protective tarifr policy which has made hothouse wages possible.

There is no sound argument to justify the pemocratic policy in regard to the domestic sug·ar industry. .

This Government requires the money the tartff on sugar pro­duces. No reYenue is collected with less burden on the people than the import duty on sugar.

The price of sugar to the consumers in the United States is lower than in an_y country in continental Europe. -

The raising of sugar beets benefits the soil, and is most profit­able to the fal'mer.

No monopoly exists in the manufacturing of domestic sugar. On the other hand, the so-called Sugar Trust is engaged in refining imported raws.

In short, the cause for the attack on the domestic sugar in­dustry by th~ administration is inconceivable.

The great sugar-refining companies, the so-called Sugar:rru~t, for many years have been spending large sums of money m diS­tributing literature to create a sentiment nmona our people for free trade on sugar, and failed to accomplish the results they desired until the Democratic Party came into power March 4, 1913. It was the golden opporttmity for the Sugar Trust, m;d the Democratic Party was easily led on in the matter of tarJ1I Irurislation. Their case was presented to Congress through one ~ank c. Lowry, their hireling. The administration yielded to this lobbyist and accepted his falsified figure~ and statistics.

Abolishing the duty on sugar will permit the sugar refineries to more cheaply import foreign raws, but this was not the fundamP..ntal reason for their actiYities. The remarkable growth of the domestic industry they considered a menace to their welfare, and it was their greatest desire to curb or elimina~e the strong and increasing competition caused by the domestlc beet and cane sugar industry. The war between the great refineries and the domestic producers of beet and cane su~ar has been fiercely waged since the inception of the beet-sugar industry, but the growth of the domestic beet-sugar industry between the years of 1895 and 1912 has , been phenomenal, jumping up fi·om an annual production of a few thousand tons to 625~000 tons in the year of 1912. This, together with the domestic cane sugar produced in the South, furnishes the Amer­ican people with about 25 per cent of the sugar they consume annually. It .can readily be understood that the great refining companies saw in the domestic industry a most formidable foe­one that. tmless it could be conquered, wouJd bring unque tion­able destruction in the end to the great monopoly engaged in the refining of foreign imported raw sugar. . .

Our domestic sugar has entered the markets m every State m the Union and in all cases-without a single exception-has sold at from 20 cents to 40 cents a hundred pounds below the price obtained by the Sugar Trust for their sugar produced from foreign imported raws; and if the market for sugar is clo ely followed, it will be observed that during the six or seven months, from October to l\1ay, when tbe dome tic sugar is on the market, the wholesale price, and also the price to the consumer, is lower than during the remainder of the year, when the Sugar Trusts have no competition. Yet Mr. Lowry tells us that the consumers will receive tht~ entire benefit of a tariff reduction ou sugar. I can not conceive that the Sugar Trust, with competition elimi­nate~ will not sell its product at the highest price it can· demand.

The following shows the net decline or advance in the price of raw and refined ..suga1·, week by week, from Februa!"y 19 to Jun,e 25, 1914. It is an indication of unwillingness on the part

1914. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-- HOUSE. .11479 of sugar refiners to let consumers have the benefit of the tariff reduction on sugar:

[Taken from Willett & Gray's Weekly Statistical Trade Journal.]

Raws. Refined.

Date. Declined. Advanced. Declined. Advanced.

Feb. 26........................... .03 ............ 1) ( Feb. 19........................... $0. 06 .. . . .. . . .. .. ~t) (~~

~!~: ~2::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :~ :::::::::::: $6.098 -----~1

..... . Mar. 19........................... ............ $0.06 .049 .......... .. Mar. 26........................... .06 .................................. .. Apr. 2. ........................... (1) (1) (1) (1) Apr. ............................ .03 ............ .098 ........... . Apr.IG........................... ............ .06 ...................... .. Apr. 23........................... ............ .03 ............ $0.06 Apr. 30........................... ............ .03 (1) (1) May7............................ ............ .10 ............ .097 May 14. .......................... ............ .06 ............ .088

~~~ ~::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::: :fJ :::::::::::: :~~ June4............................ .07 .................................. .. June 11............ .... .. .. .. .. .. . (1) (1) (1) (1) June 18........................... . . . . . . .. . . . . • 07 . .. . . . . .. .. . . 098 June 25........................... . 07 .. . .. .. .. . .. (1) (1)

Total ...................... . • 76 .60 .245 .539

Net decline in raws 16 cents per 100 pounds. 1 No change. Net advance in refined 29.4 cents per 100 pounds. To further explain the above table, I call attention to the

followiug: Price of refined sugar on Feb. 11, 1914--------------------- $3. 92 Price of raw sugar on Feb. 11, 1914------------------------ 3. 48

Refiners' d.il!er·ence----------------------------------~ P1·ice of refined sugar on June 25. 1914--------------------- 4. 214 Price of raw sugar on June 25, 1914------------------------ 3. 32

Refiners' difference--------------------------------~- .894

The refiners have increased their margin from $0.44 on Feb­ruHry 11, 1914, to $0.894 on June 25, 1914, which increase nmounts to $0.454. The refiners' margin has been increased 103.2 per cent.

This great change in the refiners' margin is proof that the re­finers sell their sugar at the highest price they can obtain. In Februnry domestic sugar was on the market, and competition forced the refiners to accept a small profit. I do not belieye any well-informed man will contend that the domestic industry will he able to exist under free trade. and with all domestic compe­tition wiped out the refiners can and will increase their profits and absorb the tariff reduction. The benefit to the consumers if there is any benefit at all. will certainly be insignificant. Th~ crippling of the domestic sugar industry is a gross mistake. The tariff reduction on sugar can not be justified. ·

While the seaboard refiners and their free-sugar allies among the Democrats claim that the Underwood bill has resulted in cbea11er sugar, they conceal the essential facts from the people.

By cheaper sugar they expect the public to belieYe that the sugar found on the breakfast table of the American people is cheaper since the Underwood bill passed than it was before.

As a matter of fact, the cheaper sugar has been confined exclu­sively to raw sugar grown by the American farmers and to gran­ulated sugar turned out by the beet-sugar factories and better equipped sugarbouses in Louisiana in competition with the trust.

This is strikingly shown by the movement of the sugar market during the last month that the old rates were in effect and the first month following the operation of the sugar schedule of the Underwood bill-February and :March, 1914. During this period there was a net decline of 0.47 cent in raw sugar on the New Yor~ market, while granulated, the lowest grade of refined sugar, declmed only 0.147 cent, the excess -in the decline of raws over granulated being 0.323 cent, suffered by the American farmers. Since March, hewever, after the domestic crop had gone off the market, the refiners advanced their price on granulated sugar 0.441 cent, and now the price of granulated sugar is 0.224 cent higher than in February, before the tariff reduction became effecti•e.

But this was not the worst fen ture. The campaign for free sugar was conducted by the refiners U!lder the pretense that they would cheapen the higher grades of table sugars to the masses of the people, and that the grades known as dominoes and cut-loaf sugars, the grades of table sugars used for sweet­ening tea and coffee, would be cheaper by 2 cents a pound fol­lowing the removal of the duty.

The trade reports show that while the refiners beat down the prices of raw sugar on the e>e of the tariff 'cllnnges en­tirely "absorbing" the reduction, as they put it, and a1sb re­duced the price of granulated in order to injure the beet people and those planters who were competing with them in that

grade, they made absolutely no reduction in the price of ~rysta~ dominoes or cut-loaf sugar. These are the fancy grades m which the beet factories and the Louisiana planters do not compete. The trust, through selling them at exorbitant prices has been able to pile up millions of dollars of profit annually.

The market quotations of Willett & Gray show that crysta dominoes were quoted without a break from January 8 to ~pril 30 at 6.75 cents to 7.25 cents a pound, according to pack mg. Cut-loaf sugar was quoted at 5.05 cents during the same period without a break. 'l'he depression bas been in raw sugar and the low gr:ades, and the only losses have been sustained by the American farmer nnd the Federal Treasury.

The trust bas maintained its fancy prices for fancy grades unimpaired by the tariff. This is clearly shown by the follow­ing table:

1914

j

Jan. 8 ................................... . Jan. 15 ................................. . Jan. 22 ................................ .. Jan. 29 ................................ .. Feb. 5 ................................. . Feb.11 ................................ . Feb.19 .....•.•.......•....•............ Feb. 26 ................................ . Mar. 5 ......••..•.•.•.••.••...•...•...•. Mar.12 ................................ . Mar.19 ................................ .

}t;: ~::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Apr.8 ................................. . Apr.16 ................................ . Apr. 23 ............................... ..

t~.;~:::::::::::::·::::::::::::::::::::

Raw.

Gent!. 3.23 3.29 3.355 3.48 3.48 3.48 3.42 3.39 3.01 2.95 3.01 2.95 2.95 2.92 2.98 3.01 3.04 3.32

Granu­lated.

Gents. 3.92 3.92 3.92 3.92 3.92 3.92 3.92 3.92 3.92 3.822 3. 773 3. 773 3. 773 3.675 3.675 3. 735 3. 735 4.214

I Crystal I

don.oinoes (cases).

Cent.!. 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25 6. 75-7.25

Cut loaf.

Ce-nts. 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05 5.05

The loss to the Federal Treasury has been officially shown by two letters from the Department of Commerce under date of April 10 and .May 18, respecti>ely. These letters state that during the month of March, the first J;Ilonth the new sugar rates were in operation, the Government sustained a loss of $2,479,458.62, while during the second month, April, the Gov­ernment sustained a further loss of $1,951,198.91, a total of $4,430,657.53 lost to the United States Treasury and absorbed entirely by the sugar refiners.

It will thus be seen thn t the refiners, through the operation of the new tariff, have within the space of two months recovered at the expense of the Federal Treasury $4,500,000, or a little more than the entire sum that the Federal Government forced them to disgorge by reason of their crooked weighing and other methods of petty thieving. These oft.ious prnctices it will be t·emembered, caused the Attorney General of the. United States to denounce the refiners as guilty of "a long-continued system of defrauding the Go>ernment of an unparalleled de­pravity."

WhiJe the golden stream of import duties has thus been diverted from the Public Treasury into the coffers of the Sugar Trust, the loss to private enterprise has been no less severe.

The culture of beets, wbich has been the mane! of American indusfry and deYelopment during the past decade, has been halted. Twelve beet factories haYe been abandoned. The de· struction in the cane-growing State of Louisiana bas been appalling. Mr. Charles Godchaux, one of the leading bankers and planters of that State, in a recent telegram which was read upon the floor of the Senate, gave a few illustrations of the tariff disaster which has overtaken his people. He said:

The Miles Planting Co. abandoned their properties in Ascension and St. James Parisheq, containing over 15,000 acres, fully equipped with three large factories and railroads. They have sold off their live stock and are now offering the factories at wrecking value. Part of the lands ha-ve. been leased for rice, cot·n, and other crops, but a large portion are Idle and the labor has moved away. The loss to the above com­E:fl~ c~rrtfi~S:.d of the daughter and son of Gen. Miles, is not less than

In Te1·rebonne Parish the Argyle property is now under seizure. The owner will sell at fifty to seventy-five thousand. while three years ago he purchased one-quarter interest from his brother for one hundred thousand. This shows a loss of over three hundred thousand.

The Bayou Sale property of Mr. Wahl and others, consisting of about 2,000 acres, bas been entirely abandoned, due to the fact that they were unable to secure the money to operate. The seed cane saved to plant in January bas not been touched, and the loss on this place is at least a hundred thousand.

The losses to sugar dlstt·ict since Underwood tarifl' was talked of or became effective amount to not less than $10,000,000 and will be that much more at the end of another year. when 00 per cent of the pt·op· e!ties will be abandoned and expensive factories sold for junk. I could ctte dozens more abandoned places if desired.

This is the practical side of the sugar question. But, like all great questions, It also has a sentimental s1de.

11480 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE .. JuLY 1,

Let us turn to the record of the Baltimore eonvention in the opening days if we would understand why the American sugar growers feeJ so deeply on lliis question. In a telegram sent from Baltimore to the New Orleans Picayune before the baJiot­ing began. ami published on the first page of its issue of June 2G. we find the following:

The Texas delegation made common cause wltb the Loulsia:ni.ans to-day in the <>tfort to get 1n the platform some expression which would act as a protection of suga r in the future.

It was thoRe men from the sugar-growing States .of the South who stood like adamant for Mr. Wilson against the assaults of most of the other Southern Stntes in the battle for the nomina­tion. The repre8entati•es from the oilier Southern States who followed Hon. OLLIE JAMEs in the Senat.e and Mr. HARDWICK in the Howse in destroying the sugar industry of southern Louis iana and Texas were simply revenging themse1Yes because the representnth·es of those sugar States held out for Mr. Wilson and insured his nomination at Baltimore.

This is clearly shown by the record. Take the vote of the solid South after tlle 41 ballots. on the last ballot taken Tuesday, the day before all of the Southern States broke to Wilson and attempted to out-Herod Herod in their devotion to the nominee. It is typical of the balloting thu t bud been going on from the beginning and reads like poetic Justice when we reeall wh-at the nominee and the solid South did to the domestic sugar industry later on when they cnme to revise the tariff.

Here is the forty-second ballot:

Wilson. Clark. ~~- Foss. Bryan. Absent.

Alabama.·----··~-··--·--·-····-·-····-----··--· 24 •••••••• ··-···-- ·-··-··· Arlc11nsas ....•....•.............. -·····~- 18 --·-----F lorida ..........•...•.. --------- 2 •.•••••. 10 ······-- ··-·---- -·---··· Georjtia .......................... 2S -··-·-·- --···--- •••••••• Kentueky .... ---·-·-----···---·- --·---·· 26 ----·-·-Louisiana........................ 12 7 1 ····-···

~rHi~~~·i::::::::::::::::::::::: 5 ;: 2(} ·······- ; North Carolina.................. 20 ····---- 4 ........ -----·- -·---··-South Carolina .•...........•. ·•.. 18 ·--·---- -···---- --·-···· ........ -·-·-··-Texas... . ....................... 40 Virginia ••.•..••••••..• ·-···---·· ~ 12 2 ::::::: ..••.. T ::::::::

The sugar people know that they insured the selection of the Democratic nominees at Baltimore and feel that . they were afterwards destroyed in the house of their friends for having don~ so.

While this prenomination assistance rendered by the sugar men would seem to have been sufficient to gain for them the assistanc-e of the new nrlministration, <.'ert.<tin other events oc­curred during the• campaign that followed which caused the sngar industry to feel that it had nothing to fear from 1\lr. Wiison.

Thf>Se haxe been enumerated by Mr. Henry N. Pharr, of Olivier, Ln., as follows:

1. The Underwood frel!-sngar bill of 1912 met a cold reception at the hands of the Democra tie member of the Senate Finance Committee, who recommended .instead a onE--third cut in ex:h;tlng rates.

2. Tbe assurancE' given n.t that time by Senator Joa~ SHARP WIL­LIAMS. of l\Iissis. ippi, that " even though a Democratic Presjdent .and a ~mocratic Senate anl'l a Democratic Honse should come into ~ower1 there is not the !'lli~htE'St anticipation in the mind of any intelligent man that sugar would be pln.Cf'd on the free llst."

3. What we regarded ns posi tive a ssu rance I'rom Mr. Wilson in his preconvention eompaign that there need be no apprehension on the part of the Louisiilna sugar phtntet·s In the evE-nt of llis nomination.

4. The open secret that the ubcommi ttee which drafted the Demo­cratic platform ahsolott>-ly refused to entertain a free-sugar plank sub­mitted by the I'efining interests.

5. The deelaration in that platform in favor of "legislation that will not injut·E' or de~=:tt·oy le!t"itimate industry."

G. Mr. \Yilson·s posltive refusal during bis campaign to declare him­self in favor of free sugnr wh~n interrogated by tbe collector of the port of New Orleans. ns shown in attaciled copies of telegrams.

7. Mr. Wilson's sta tement at Pittsburgh, l'a., on October 17, that "The Democratic Pat·ty does not propose free trade or anything ap­proaching free trade " ; and, tinnily,

B. Th~ as;;;ur:mce by l'rPsident-e!ect Wilson that honest business had nothing to fear from his administration.

The telegraphic <!orre ponden<!e referred to by Mr. Pharr was as follows : .

NEW OllLEANS, LA., 0t:to1Jer 5, 19.12. Ron. WOODROW WILSON,

Democratic 1\"ominee for P1·es·irlent of the United State3 (Ga1·e of Hon. Willia 1 .Jen.ning<J Bryan, Li1~coln, Xebr.):

The last Democratic Ilouse passed the Underwood free-sugar bilL The Democratic platform for 1912 approved the leglslatl<ln of the Dem<leratlc House at its last session. The Democratic campaign book for 1912 advances extended at·guments in favor of free sugar. Not­withstandin~ these facts, sugar men in Louisiana are being assured that you w1U not advocate tbe Underwood free-sugar bm, if elected P1·esident, but will be guided by the fourth paragraph of the Demo­cratic platform on the tari1f question, whieb promises downward revi­sion that will not injure o:r dest1·oy Legltimn.te industry. The Republican

CA;DlPalgn opens In LouisJana on the 10th !nstnnt. We do not wish to mtst·epresent your position. May I ask if you are in favor of the Underwood free-soga1· bill or not? If not, what duty on sugar wm you advocat~ If elected President? We wlll publish yolll' answer in full with th~s telegram.

. . C. S. llF.lJERT, CT!atnnan Repttblteaa State Central Committee.

President Wilson's answer was as follows:

C S PHILLIPSBURG, KA.xs., October 6, 1912.

• • HETJERT, Chairman Republican Sta:W Central Committee,

New Or lcan..s, La.: Your Iettergram October 5 received. My position on the question

mentioned was stated in my speech of acceptance. WOODROW WILSO~.

In the light of this corres-pondence, the letter of acceptance will be studied in vain for the slightest intimation of the cruel destruction that awaited the Louisiana sugar industry when Mr. Wilson and his friends cnme to revise the tariff.

Last year 647,G06 acres were planted with sugar beets in the United States. This sea on 513.201 acres have been planted. This is a decrease of 134,305 acres, due to the closing down of 12 beet-sugar factories in dift"erent parts of the United States.

The contracts between the fuctoz·ies and the beet growers in the State of Michigan have been so changed as to reduce the price per ton paid for beets to the farmers an average of 50 cents. As the ~verage yield of beets in Michigan is about 10 tons per acre, this means an average reduction in the farmer's income of $5 per acre. A farmer growing 15 tons per acre, of course will lose $7.50 pe1· acre on his beet crop this year as <!Ompn.red' with last year.

The question may be asked, why the domestic beet and cane sugar industry can not tbri•e. or even exist, without tariff pro­tection against foreign competition. A few of the facts in the case sh{)W most clearly a reason that can not be disputed. It bas been shown that the beet-sugar fadories in the United State in 1910 paid from $G to $6.50 per ton for beets delivered at the fa<!tory, and in the StMe of Michigan the factories that year [laid $6.91 per ton for beets delivered at the factories (see Hardwick hearings, p. 711), while it was developed at the Hard­wick hea.rings that the farmers in France received an averaoe price for their beets from 1902 to 1911, inclusive, of $-!.05 p~r ton of 2,000 pounds~ and in Germany, ·for the same periotl of time, the farmers received $4,45 per ton; and it was further developed by the investigations {)f that committee that the French .nnd German beets averaged about 2-q per cent more sugar tn the beets than is obtained from beets in the Unitet.l States. And, again, the purity is greater in German and French beets than in tbe United States and yields about 30 pounds of sugar per ton of beets more than is extra cted from beets tn this coun­h·y showing the same test or percentage of saccharine, wh\cb is caused by the superior purity of sugar in the beets. And, again, the wages of the men, women, and children in the beet fields in France and Germa.ny were shown to be about 40 per cent of the wag~s paid to the sa.me class of labor in the beet fields in the United States.

It was shown by that investigation that the cost of prodnc­tion of granulated sugar from beets in the United States was $3.55 per 100 pounds, while the cost of production of brown sugar from cane in the Southern States was $3.75 per 100 pounds. The eost of refining this brown sugar ran-ges from .±() to 50 cents per 100 J)Ounds nnd makes a total cost for refined sugar produ<!ed in the Southern States of 4! cents per poun~ w.bile, on th~ other hand, Cuban raw sugar, 96° -which is a ligbt~bown sug.nr-if old f. o. b. Hnbt.l.n; for about 2 cents per pound. The freight on thi sugar to New York is 10 cents per 100 pounds, and the refining <!ost about 40 cents per 100 pounds, so that under free sugnr the refining companies, h'Tiowu as the Sugar Trust. can, under free trade, produce refined granulated sugar from foreign imported raws at a cost of 2?; cents per ponnd. It can therefore be plainly seen that the re­fining companies, who h<'lve so long and earnestly clamored fc!~ f1·ee trade on foreign imported sugar, ean under free trade put sugar on the market at a price fnr be1ow the price at which it can be produ~ed by the domestic sugar manurncturers and thas crush out the domestic l)eet and c:me sugar industry.

'l'here is more than $100,000,000 in-.;-ested in our beet-sug::u• fnctories and about twice that sum in the :U1ctories and cane fields of the South. Th~re is conclusive evidence that this in· dustry ca.u not sUl'vi\e under free trade, and, according to thR President's statements. it is a hothouse industry and must go.

The reductiQn of duty as provided for in the Underwood tarift law, sn.uctloned and approved of by the administration, on Cubn.n sugar is a frnction o-ver one-third of n cent per pound. Thls change or reduction of duty was made effective March 1. 1914. Its effect so far has been .. .o d\Jse the following beet~sugar factories:

19i4. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 11481

In Ohio, the Continental Sugar Co., with a slicing cap~city of 500 tons per dny, and the Altowa Sugar Co., with a capacity of 600 tons pt>r day.

In ~eYada, the Xen1da Sugar Co., sli.cing 500 tons. In Ariv.ona. the Sontbwestern Sugl:lr Co., 65Q tons cupacity. In Wi8consin. the Rock County ~ugar Co., TOO tons capacit_y. In Iowa, the Iowa Sugar Co .• 500 tons capacity. In California, the Alameda Sugar Co., 800 tons ea-pacity; the

Sacramento Valley Sugar Co., 700 tons capncity. In Colorado, the Holly Sugar Co., GOO tons capacity; the Las

Animns Sngnr Co., 700 tons capacity; th-e Ameri-cttn Beet Sugar CQ., 400 tons capacity.

In Michigan, the Western Sugar Refining Co., .6{){) tons ca­pacity.

Twelve fnctories in an out of a total of 74 in the United Stutes. or about 16 per cent of our beet-sugar factories, have already been dri•en out of business.

In the State of Louisiana since the 1st day of January. 1914. the new tnriff law hns. as before stnted, caused 42 facto:ries and pL.wta t1ons to discontinue. Following is the list:. -

The Bell Helet~e Plantin~ Co. The Valverda Planting & Manufacturing Co. The Uncle Sam Plantation & Manufacturing Co. The Miles !'Ianting & Manufacturing Oo. Tb<> Sera a11d Magnolia plantatrons. A plantation at l'laquemine of. 10,000 acres~ Tbe Sweet Home plantation, The La Place sugar plantation. The Yanfty Plantln~ Co. The Ivanhoe plantation. The Alice B. plantation. Tbe Crawford and Richland plantations. Tht> Horne Pla1:·e. 'l'be Glen Coe plantation. The Mc~Ianor plantation. 'The Front Lawn plantation. The L & Kay planta.tion. The Sherley Planting Co. The Cot·a Plantln~ & Manu!aeturing Co. The Celeste l'lantin~ o. The McCaJl. Bros. :Planting & -Ma.Dllfactu:ring .Co. 'J'be l\J ilf's Co. 'Tbe Ascension Plantim~ Co. The Augusta plantation. The W. W Ventress plantation. The Leeman Co. (Ltd.). The 1\Hily plantation. The Southsidf' Planting Co. The Oliver plantation. The 1\iaJ·y plantation. The Magnolia plan ta tlon. The Bt·altwl.!ite plantation (property of tlle United Ballway & Trad-

ln~ Co.). J~; ~!:;~ jl~~:atlon. The Stnr plantation (owned by the Klotz Manufacturing Co.)· .. The CPceha S.ug-11r Co. (Ltd.). The Davis Planting & 1\!anufacturlng Co. The St. Clair plantlltion. The Myrtlf' Gt·ove plantation. The Fah1leld plantation. The Upper Eimer plantation. Tbis shows that the Underwood taritr law has been a Water­

lCio for our domestic sug-ar industry. It can not be denied. Evidently it is all for the purpose of giving the sugar refining companies, or the so-called Sugar Trusts, a wider field and mo.re· exclush·e control of our markets for our sugar. and the poor u:llortunate consumer will pay the penalty to these eompanies.

To date out of the 74 beet-sugar fHctories in the United States. scattered throughout 17 States of tOO Union. 12. or 16 pt•r cc::1t of the totH 1, ba ,.e been closed. The embarrassment caused by the Underwood tariff law to the sugar inrtustry in Louisiana has forced 4 sugnr plantations and compnnies into­the hands of receivers, 20 others ba ve discontinued operations. anJ. 18 haYe been sold at sheriffs' snles. mak.ing a total of 42 sugar plantntions and factorie in the State of Louisiana alone th<lt have been forced to go out of business since January 1. J914. To no other cause can tbe failures be attributed than tl.le Democratic free-trade tariff law. The destructi-on to this one great industry alone within six months from the time of pnttin~ into effect the administration's tnriff policy must be appalling to fair-minded veo{~Ie. Any attempt to mislead the people into belie,ing that any cause other than the tariff is to blame is an insult to their intelligence.

The Pre::;ident nnd his party are free traders and haYe put their free-trade policies into effect. l\o one can deny it. It hns failed to bring better conditions to the people of this country, which they claimed it would. They are now putting forth all manner of excu es for their failure. Last winter when such large numbers of unemployed men in the large cities were ap­plying for shelter and food it was a Democratic contention that the ~X('e sive cold weather was responsible for the suffering. Tlle cold-weather argument can not now be used. The condl­tiv.us are growing worse instea-d <?f better, arid the administra-

tion realizing thi gi>es voice to the carping cry that this 1s purely a psychologieul condition.

The Democratic administration has its foot on the throat of business; bow long will they attempt to conceal the real cause ' of business depression?

Secretary Uedfield not mnny months ago bo~1sted ~f the magnitkent balance of trade of the L'nited States for the cal­endar year of 1913-neurly $7C.O.OUU,OOO. A fa Yorable balance of trade is a great asset to a country. Mr. Redfield knew 1t and Members of Congress know it. In April our imports exceeded our exports by $11,300.000, and in !\lay our imports again ex­ceeded our exports. tl.le excess amounting to approximately $2.000.000. With free trade on sugar this -country's imports will increase some $40.000.000 annually. These increased im­ports will come no matter what we think. It will not lJe psyehologica1. The imports wHl come in and gold will go out to pay for the same.

Our Democratic friends hn>e always claimed that our dom£>s­tic sugar indnstry, especially beet sugar. is a hothouf'e industry, and. in fact, it has been clnimed there is not sufficient soil adapted for the successful growing of beets in the United States to warrant the estublishment of enough beet-sugnr factories to produce a quantity of sugar equal to our consumption.

WhBn Mr. 1Vllson was the Secretary of Agrirulture. he made a report that his department had made thorough tests of Mils in the United Stntes and determined that there is 274.000.000 acres of land in the United Stft"tes RS well adapted to the grow­ing of beets as the soil on which sugar beets are now grown in tl.le ~tate of 1\licbigrm. nod tl.lat if n crop, such as wns prodnc.ed in the ~tate of l\11chi~an for 11)11. was hnn-e. ted from this 274.000.000 acres of land. tb11t one crop of sugar would exceed in qmmtity all the sug<lr used by all the peop!e of the world since the birth of our S;n-ior. A crop of beets from 13,000.000 acres of land in the United States would furnish :m annual supply of sugar to all the people of the world. In other words, wou:d prnduce a quantity of sugar equal to the world's annual production.

Is it not 11 matter of significance to find the representatives of the refining industries before the Hardwick sugar im·esti"'at­ing committee and the Committee on Ways and l\Ieans, w'Gen the taritr bill was up for considerntion, advocating free sugnr. and later 'find the paid representath-e of. the refining institu­tions, Frank C. l.owry. writing a pr~rt of the Democratic Cnm­paign Textbook for the year of 1912, the celebrated so-called " Farmel"S· Sugnr Bowl,, setting forth gross misrepresentations as to the benefit to be derived by the consumers under free trade -on sugar; and also to find that two of the Spreckels fnm­ily eng~1-ged 'in the r·efining of sugar, one at San F1·nnciseo and the (}ther at New York, supporting the Democratic Party in the campaign of 1912 not only by personal efforts, but. it is re­ported, by contributing large sums of money for tile campaign of 1»12, whfre _at the same time a suit was pending. brou~ht by the Government in the 'F'erlernl court for the southern district of New York. against the Federal Sugar Refining Co., of which one of the Spreckels is president, for a claim of $119.080.98 principal, representing unpaid duties on importations of raw sugar entered at the port of 1'\.ew York by tl.le defendants. and thHt suit is still _penning and unproseruted? Thls suit wns be­gun against the Federul Sugar Co. under a Republican admin­istration. It was one of several suits brought against the im­porters of foreign raw sugar, and some of the officials of one of the refining eomp:u:ries, I believe. are now sening terms In the penitentiary for fraudulent under-weighing and umJprv:~lu­ations or other frauds in connection \Yith the import11tion of foreign raw sugars, for which the Arbuckles and tbe American Sugar Refining Cos. haYe paid upward of $3.000,000 in fines. All th~se suits, if I am correctly informed, bn ,.e been prose­cuted to a completion, with tbe single exception of the suit against the Federal Sugnr Refining Co. nbo,·e rPferrerl to.

'\Ve are now sending abroad nbout $100.000.000 nnnually to purchase foreign sugnr to be refined by the great Sngar Tn1st to supply us with our rcJnsnmiition of sngnr in addition to tl.lnt produced by our domestic beet nnd cane factories. This money goes abroad :md eDtpla.rs lnbor in foreign lands. whereas if kept at home it would furnish a •ery large amount of emvloyment to labore-rs in the United States.

Our labore-rs in the l:nited States employed in the great re­tine:ries receive in wa~eR not to exceed 40 cents for each 100 pounds of raw s-r1gar reftnerl. while if that sugar was produced in tJie beet and cane factories of this country labor would re­ceive eight times that sum. or. in other word~. eight lahorers "·ould be -emp-loyed in the sngflr tndustry of this countr-y d we produced at home arr the sugar we con~ume for every one labol.·er .employ.ed by the Sugar Trust engaged in refinlLl' im-

11482 T CONGRESSIONAL · RECORD~ HOUSE. JULY 1,

ported raws, HoweY"er, that is a system or policy to which our Democratic friends seem unalterably opposed. They propose to completely destroy the domestic industry and transfer the iabor abroad.

During six months of the year, when there is no domestic beet sugar on the market, imported raw sugar is refined as follows:

The Federal Sugar Refining Co. produces 6.3 per cent of our consumption.

The Warner Sugar Refining Co. produces about 2.5 per cent of our consumption.

While the .American Sugar Refining Co. and the Arbuclde Bros. Sugar Refining Co. produce the remaining, or 91.2 per ceut. The American Sugar Refining Co. has its head office at 117 Wall Street and the other refining companies have their offices in two buildings on Front Street, New York, less than ~me and one-~al~ blocks .away from the American Sugar Refin­mg Co. Is It not possible for these companies to aet their heads together in fixing the price of refined sugar du~-ing one­half of the year, when there is no domestic sugar on the market? As before stated, it will be observed that during that time the price of sugar to the consumer is higher than during the six month of tlte year when the domestic sugar is on the market.

Our insular possessions furnish us with the followina quan-tities of sugar: "'

Tons. f.~itoH~fc~an Island~------------------------------------ 500,000

'.rhe Philippine8:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::~============:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ~88: 888 Our domestic production, as before given, is 950,000 tons, and

the balance of our consumption, or 1,750,000 tons is furnished by Cuba, making a total of 3,700,000, or about 81 pounds per capita as the annual consumption in the United States.

A dollar in America will purchase more refined granulated sugar in the United States than in any country in the world.

The English Board of Trade, in a report on the comparative labor conditions in England and the United States, taking $1 paid to labor in England as a basis for comparisons showed that the same class of labor in the same kind of employment iu the United States receives $2.40; and what the Englishman is able to purchase in England for $1 can be purchased by the American laboring man here for $1.38, as shown by that report thus leaving the American laboring man a surplus of $1.02 out of every $2.40 earned.

Again, Willett & Gray's Statistical Trade Journal quotes tile net cash wholesale price for refined granulated sugar at Liver­pool on June 4 at $3.80 per 100 pounds, while at tile same time they quote the net wholesale cash price for refined granulated sugar in New York at $4,116 per 100 pounds. Therefore, if the consumer could purchase. at the wholesale price, the English laborer could purchase WIth his dollar 26.2 pounds of refined granulated sugar, while the American laborer, at the American wholesale price, could purchase with his $2.40 58.2 pounds of refined granulated sugar. In other words, the American labor­ing man ean purchase for a given unit of labor more than two and a quarter times as much sugar as the Englishman.

In the per capita consumption of sugar of the nations of the world the United States stands fifth.

New Zealand consumes 130 pounds per capita; Australia con­sumes 129 pounds per capita; United Kingdom consumes 91 potmds per capita; Denmark consumes 84 pounds per capita· United States eonsumes 81 pounds per capita. '

It is of interest to know that in 1830 onr consumption of sugar was but 10.2 pounds per capita and in 1870 it was 32 pounds and the wholesale price was 13! cents per pound, while for the year of 1913 the wholesale price for domestic beet sugar was $3.82 per 100 pounds. About one-third of the per capita con­sumption of sugar in the United States is used by manufac­turers of candies, preserves, and other foods.

The campaign for free sugar has been so diligently calTied on by the rmporters of raw sugar that a feeling has been cre­ated that the import duty on sugar is a great burden on the con­~ui?er. <:ertainly t~is beli~f is ~nwarranted. The following is a hst of Import duties, excises, and internal-revenue taxes that must be paid in the principal European countries on sugar for horne consumption. The United Kingdom has the lowest rate.

Per 100 pounds.

Th~ U:'lited Kingdom-------------------------------------·{

~,~~ t7~~;i~~~-state_s_:--------------------------------------­Kf~~~~~!gar -----------------------------------------

D -------------------------------------------

~!f€f£~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

$0.40 to

$0.45 • 79

1.00 1.26 1.22 2.03 2.23 2.43

Per 100 pounds. $2.89

3. 64 4. 02 4. G9 4.92 5. 06 5.31 6.48 6.56

------------------- 7. 00 7.26 8.56 8.67

~he average for all Europe is $4.43 per 100 pounds. If the Umted States would impose an internal-revenue tax on sugar consumed. in this country of $4.43 per 100 pounds, that tax would br1~g a re,enue to the Government of $370.000 000.

Mr. Chatrman, I listened with considerable interest' to some gentlemen on Saturday from the Democratic side of the House w~o ¥ave a .glowing report of the increased production in cer­tam mdus~·Ies in the State of Indiana. I am in bu iness. I am etnp~oym~ men iu the lumber .industry. I .have ne\er yet se~n a hJ?l~ smca 1806 when that mdustry was in such a cha­?hc conditiOn ~s at present. And what is true of the lumber illdustry of this country from the Atlantic to the Pacific is true practically of every industry in the land. I am sorry this condition exists. And I hope that I am not and that the Republican Party is not responsible for ·that condition. I want to sa~ to my D~mocratic friends that with your opinions on the questwn of a tariff duty to be collected on foreign imports 1 differ I believe in a protective tariff and you do not. One or th~ othe1· ?f us is ~rong in judgmen~. I want to give you credit for bemg candid and honest in your opinion but I belieY ~ you arc misguided in judgment. . ' c

I h:~.ve repeatedly stated, and I wish to again stnte. that there IS not a country under God's sun in which a dollar to­day will buy as many pounds of granulated suaar as it win buy in the United States, England not excepted."' England has a duty on sugar ranging from 40 to 45 cents per 100 pounds. Her rate of duty is 45 ,cents per 100 pounds on sugar of D o or above, and lower rates of duty on lower grades. On 96° it is 40 cents. ·

Mr: STEPHENS of Texas. Will the gentleman yield for a questiOn?

Mr. FORDNEY. Yes, sir. . . Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. The gentleman stated tltat ~ugur ~s cheaper than e.ver before in this country. Is not that carry­mg out the promises of the Democratic platform to reduce the cost of living?

Mr. FORDNEY. The gentleman misunderstood me. I did not say sugar was cheaper than at any other time in thi country. I say that a .dollar will buy more granulated sugar in the United States than It will buy in any other country in the world.

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. And is not the cost of living re­duced to that extent?

Mr. F<?~DNEY. Whatever it has been reduced in price the .cost of hvmg has been reduced accordingly. Now, let me say I attended Keith's Theater one night not long ago in this city and a funny man gave an illustration and attacked the Hous~ of Representatives for legislation that had been passed. He referred to the Democratic promise to reduce the cost of living and showed how much sugar has been reduced to the con­sumer-20 cents a hundred pounds-and upon investigation I found the gentleman was about correct. He weut further and said that the price of sugar to the consumer had been reduced 20 cents a hundred pounds, or 2 mills a pound, rather. He said a mill is a tenth of a cent, and a person in using sugar in coffee uses a quarter of an ounce of sugar in a cup of coffee, and in order to emtble the poor devil to save a nickel he must drink 1,600 cups of coffee.

Now, you have reduced that much the eost of living. Mr. SLOAN. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. FOHDNEY. I will. Mr. SLOAN. Was not the statement which the aentlernan

has made relative to how much a dollar would b;y in this country true also before the duty was Teduced as well as it is now?

1\fr. FORDNEY. Yes, sir; that is true. England, haviug a Ie s duty on her imported sugar than we have, could furnish refined ~ugar to her consumers at a less price than we do, for England Imports all her sugar. I have here a letter wl'itten by our Ameri~an consul at Liverpool, England, dated June 18, which ! rece1v~ day before yesterday. He writes that sugar is sell­mg retail at Liverpool, England, for 5 cents · a pound. In my home town, in the State of Michigan, anyone can purchase 22 pounds of granulated sugar for $1, 4! cents a pound. I have an­other letter here from Lyon, France, stating that suga;.·, vn the

1914. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-- HOUSE. 11483

18th day of June, this year, was selling for 7! to 8 cents a pound. granulated sugar. and to-day I receiYed a lE'tter from our American consul at Paris, France. saying that sugar was selling there on the 18th day of June for 6 cents n pound. Su"'al: is cheaper here than in any country in the world; yet. ge~tlemen, it is not possible to produce dom~tlc sugars. eitheT from cane or beets, to compete with the refining comp;1nies thnt import foreign raw RUgnrs unrter free trade. Unrter free trade the domestic rnanufHcturer must go out of business. There is no gue tion about that.

1\lr. GAHHE'l'T of Tennessee. Will the gentleman jield? Mr. FOHD::'\EY. I yield to the gentleman. Mr. GA RhETT of Tennessee. The gentleman has reference

to the price of ~ugar in Germany and France. He is di.cussing­the question of price in its relation to the tariff or the uu;ff in its relntion to price. as the case may be. Of c()nrse, the gentleman does not wish to be understood that there is no tariff on f:erman or French sugar.

l\lr. FORDNEY. Oh, no. What I was h-ying to mustrnte is that sugar is cheaper in this country than in any country in the world.

Mr. GARnETT of Tennessee. The tax upon it-really all the tax put together-on the German and French sugar is really higher?

l\:tr. FORDNEY. Oh, yes; in Germany it is $2.03 a hundred pounds. and in France about the snrue. But that tax is an ex­port and internal-re•enue blX combined. The point I was mak­ing wns that, although we are a highly protected country, sugar is cheaper here than anywhere else in the world.

Mr. MO::'\DELL. 1\lr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield there?

Mr. FORD~"'EY. Yes. Mr. 1\IOXDELL. Is it not a fact that tire price of sugar 'bas

not been appreciably lower since the pass~ge of the Underwood bill? There has been no apprecinble lowertn.~ of the price to

• the consumer. and the difference in the tariff has been almost wholly retnined by the importer and the refiner? .

1\Ir. FORDNEY. Yes. I will say, and I have the quotations here-

l\1r. MO~TDELL. In other words, the facteries hn•e been closed and the industry bus b.een put on the bum and the Gov­ernment bas lost revenue without our people getting any ap-prec:nble benefit? ·

Mr. FORD. ~EY. Yes; that is perfectly true. There wa~ some little reduction to the consumer for a bri':!f period. but not a reduction equal to the reduction of the duty in the Underwood tariff law.

l\lr. MO~J)ELL. I would like to ask the gentleman one other question.

Mr. F'ORDXEY. Very well. Mr. MO:\'DELL. The reduction in th~ wholesale price hns

not been sufficient to a fleet the retail price in most of the retail murkets at HI!. Is not that true?

Mr. FOllDXEY. Yes. In my own borne town I can buy no more sugur for u dollar nt retail th<lll I could before the present tariff law went into effect--

1\lr. MOXDELL. And the price is the same to the consumer as before. since the reduction of duty?

1\Ir. FORDXEY. Yes. Mr. ADAIR. ~lr. Chairman, will the gentlem:m yield? Mr. FOHD:\'EY. Yes; but · first let me answer that point.

Then I will yield tv you. l\Ir. ADAIR. l just wantell some information. 1\lr. FOHD~EY. Here is the price of crystal domino and

cube nnd powdered sugar from the dnte ()f January 8, before the reducert clnty under the Underwood tariff lllw tool~ effect. If you will remember, the dnty on sugar in this new tariff lHw did not take effect until 1\larch 1 of this year. Grnnnlated sngar is the grade of sugar that is mnde by. the beet-rngnr ruanu­:fucturers, and no other grade. with the single exception of one su~ar fnctory in California, owuert hy a refining ~ompany. Here are the quotations from January 8 to At).riJ ~0: Janu3ry 8, $3.92 per bundrert pounds. This is the wbolesnle price at New Yorl{, on bon rd cars. less n discount of 2 per cent in 30 days. Three dollars and ninety-two cents runs along until the 5th of March. then sugnr dropJled to $3.82, then to $3.77, and then down to $3.i3. That is tetined sugar. at wholesale, dropping from 3.02 to lj)-'3.73, or a difference of 1!> cents a hundred. The reduction of duty wHs one-third of a cent a pound. or 34.8 cents per hun­dred pounds. The pr:ice, wholesn1c. went down 19 cents. Crys­ta 1 domino is a kind of sugar produced by the refining com­panies, but not produced by beet-sugnr or domestic mannfnc­tun:~rs. Crystal domino sold on the 8th of. Junuary at $6.75. and the price has not changed. a fraction of a penny from that (lay to this. . And cut lQaf Js nnother kind of sugar produced by

the trust, bnt not by the domestic producers. ·Tha't sold at $5.00 a hundred pounds, and the price has been unchanged from Jan­uary down to date.

Now, what is the cause of the rennction in the price of granu­lated sugar? it is the competition of domestic producers. Although granu!nted sugar from beets is made in only 17 of our States, last year it was sold in eYery State iu the Union. In fact. the State of l\1ichigan shipped granulnted sugnr last fall right into the city of New York and sold right under the eyes of the great refining companies there.

Now, whnt is the difference? Let me quote this one item, and then I will yield to the gentlemun fr·om Indiuna [~r. ADAIR]. When domestic sugar was on the market-nnd, mind you. granu­lated sugt~r made from beets is only on the market about fiye months in the year-the refining comparties sold in New York at 44 cents per 100 pounds <tbove what thPy paid for raw sugar, duty paid. What is the price to-day, when there is no competi­tion from domestic industry? Eighty-nine and nine-tenths cents per 100 pounds above wbut they are paying for raw sugar. Just the minute there is no domestic competition, just that minute the con ·umers of this country pay the penalty, gentlemen; and the only wHy to furniRb cbe;l p sug, r to the consumers of this country is by the encouragement of this domestic industry as a thorn in the side of the great sugar trusts. [Applause on the Ueyublican side.]

Now, let me call ;vour attention to another important point. Mr. ADAIR. Before you leave that point I would like to

ask you a question. 1\lr. FORDNEY. Y·es. Mr. ADAIR. I agree with mucb thnt the gentleman is saying.

But the gentleman from Wyoming [Mr. ~1oNDELL] has referred to the clof;ing down of the beet-sugar factories.

1\lr. FOllD~EY. Yes. Mr. ADAIR. This tariff did not go into effect until March 11 Mr. FORDI\'EY. Yes. l!Ir. ADAIR. The beet-sugar factories did not make any sugar

between March 1 and the present time. Is it not true thnt the beet-sugar factories make their sugar only in the fall, when the crop is matured. nnd then they only run three or four months, and then, as the gentleman says, that sugar goes on the market?

1\lr. FORDl\'EY. Yes. Mr. ADAIR. How. then, c..'ln the gentleman from Michigan

agree with the gentleman from Wyoming [Mr. MoNDELL] in saying it has closed all the factories in this country, when there is no competition now?

Mr. FORD:\"EY. Oh, I will tell my friend. The fnctories of this country began contrncting for the raising of beets with the fn rmers in December, 1912. for the ruannf.tcture of .the sugar that was to be put on the market lnst fnll ~1nd this spring. The duty was continued under the tnriff bill until the 1st of Mnrch in order to let the domestic industry get off their bands their crop they bad raised the year before, and they were finishing their crop nbout March 1, 1914.

Now, gentlemen. here is a picture that I ba\e had enlarged of some beet-sugar factorips in the West.

We ba•e 74 beet-sugar fnctories in the United States, scat­tered 0\·er 17 States. Twelve of those factories hAvP. clof;ed ffiuce the 1st day of .January last and are not contracting fo.r beets for this coming fa II crop.

Mr. COOPER. Will the gentleman permit an interruption? l\.Ir. FORDXEY. Yes. l\lr. COOl'ER. There is a ·beet-sugar factory at Janesville,

Rock Connty, in my dif;trict. 1\Ir. FOHDXEY. I think I ha•e a picture of it here. Mr. COOPER. It represents an investment of over $400,00Q

Tba t fnctory has been dosed. Mr. ADAIR. I ha>e a sugar-beet factory in my diruict rep­

re~enting an investment of more than twice $400.000. If 1 nm not mistuken. it is a pnrt of the same concern that is doing hnsiness in the gentleman's own State. The fnctory in my own State is stm in operation. and more acrenge has been planted this year than was planted last year, and the condition is pros-perous. .

Mr. FORDJ\'EY. Whether lbey have more acres or not, I do not know; but let me answer you.

The CHAJR:.\IAN. The time of the gentlemnn bns expired. Mr. STAFFORD. I yield to the gentleman from Michigan 15

minutes more. l\Ir. FORD:~·~EY. I thank the gentleman. In the State of

Michigan we ha>e lG factories. }'iftPen of tllem wfll run this coming year. Some are more fa>orably located than others. In other words, in some localities they ha•e a lnrger y1eld of beets per acre and a larger percentuge of sugar in the beets than in other localities. · It :ma-y be true that some of these fac·

\

11484 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-H_OUSE. JULY 1;

tories that have gone out of commission are least favorably situated in that respect. It is not so in the State of Michlgan.

Mr. ADAIR. In l\lichigan? :Mr. FORDNEY. In Michigan; yes. Now, further, it is pos­

sible that the Michigan Sugar Co. may have made a profit. They ha >e the most modern method of caring for their by-products. Whether they ha>e made a profit has not been shown yet. That may be shown by thls investigation that is going on now. I llave tried to get the result of that investigation, but have not succeeded. But there are 12 factories that have gone out of business. Before you is an enlarged photograph, which is a sample of the factories that have gone out of business since the first of the year; 12 out of 74, or 16 per cent of all the beet7 sugar factories in thls country. Do you believe that, with an average of $1,000,000 in>ested in each one of these factories, the stockholders would let them ·go out of business if they could make money? If so, get into the business and try it and you will find out.

Mr. ADAIR. Will the gentleman yield just there? Mr. FORDNEY. I will; yes. Mr. ADAIR. It was stated by the representatives of the

sugar factories when this matter was before this House that even at a reduction to $1 per htmdred they could continue in the business and make money at it.

Mr. FORDNEY. "They thought they could. Now, if the gen­tleman will get me more time, I should like to argue this out with him.

~fr. ADAIR. One of your own factories, in your own State, made as high as 60 per cent profit.

Mr. FORDNEY. Oh, my dear friend, there is no such state­ment on record that I ha>e ever heard of, except from your lips.

Mr. ADAIR. I have heard of it. 1\fr. FORDNEY. And I sat five months taking testimony on a

special committee investigating sugar, and nothing of the kind was ever shown.

Mr. ADAIR. I ha>e the statement from a gentleman in the business who is a stockholder in the concern.

Mr. FORD:NEY. Point him out to me, and I will show you a white blackbird or a man trying to create psychological pros~ perity, one of the two. The beet-sugar manufacturers have not made any money of late. Some have made money in sugar beets, but not under existing conditions.

Mr. ADAIR. That was an unusual year, and nothing was set aside for depreciation.

Mr. FORDNEY. That might be true in some particular year, as to some particular factory, when the crop was a·n extraordi­nary one and the percentage of sugar in the beets very high. It does not cost any more to extract 17 or 18 per cent of sugar fTom the beets than it does to extract 12 per cent, but it makes a >ery great difference to the manufacturer what amount of sugar is in those beets. Now, let me call your attention to this: 1\!r_ Wilson said in his campaign that he would injure no legiti­mate industry.

:Mr. ANSBERRY. Will the gentleman yield for one question? :M:r. FORDNEY. Let me finish this statement. The President stated that be would injure no legitimate in­

dustry. I judge that be meant by his remarks that through his political action be would injure no legitimate industry. I want to ask the question: Does he consider this a legitimate industry although it is a hothouse industry? If so, then the 12 factories that ba Y"e been closed by his signing of the Underwood tariff law, 12 factories representing an investment of about $12.000,000 whlcb have been closed certainly is an injury to a legitimate industry.

There is a sample, gentlemen. The factory alone is not the only benefit that comes to the masses of the people from the sugar produced in our factories. The land on which beets are· raised produces more abundantly of other succeeding crops.

Mr. AN BERRY.· Will the gentleman yield? Mr. FORDNEY. I will yield to the gentleman for a question. 1\fr . .A.NSBERRY. Is the gentleman familiar with the fact

that a beet-sugar factory has been promoted and built and is now running in Toledo. Ohio, with a capital of $2.000,000, all of which was supposed to be invested in it, and that the factory wa. s started after the Underwood bill had been introduced into this House? •

Mr. FORDNEY. I belie>e that is true; but the factory had gone so far before the enactment of the Underwood tariff bill that it could not stop.

1\fr. ANSBERRY. Oh, no. 1\fr. E'ORDNEY. I know that those men who built that fac­

tory could not build it nnd get it into operation sin~e the adop­tion of the Underwood bill last October. It had been built be­fore October 3, 1913, nod was ready for the crop last fall.

Mr. ANSBERRY. When was it begun?

Mr FORDNEY. I do not know; but I know some gentlemen­appeared before the committee when we were investignting the Sugar Trusts a year ago last December or January and stated they were going to build a factory in Ohio.

Mr. ANSBERRY. As a matter of fact, they did not begin the building, the actual construction, until after the .Underwood bill was introduced. I know that as a matter of personal knowl­edge.

Mr. FORDNEY. Does the gentleman mean to say that that factory has been built since last October and ground out last October's beets?

Mr. ANSBERRY. I do not know. I know they started the factory after it was an absolute certainty that the duty on sugar would be reduced, and materially reduced.

Mr. FORDNEY. Oh, yes; and you know that all the fools are not dead yet.

Mr . .A.NSBERRY. Am I to understand the gentleman from Michigan to say that these men who put $2,000,000 into a beet­sugar factory are fools?

Mr. FORDNEY. They were; or else they were sadly mis­taken. The gentleman would not, if he understood the situa­tion, nor would any sensible man who has sense enough to accumulate property, put money into such an investment hllow­ing the facts_ Perhaps they placed too much faith in Demo:.­cratic election promises.

Mr . .A.NSBERRY. Let us have facts. Mr. FORDNEY. No sane man could be induced to put his

money into a beet-sugar factory, nor into a cane-sugar factory, in Louisiana, where I have a list of 42 plantation and factories that have gone out of business since the 1st of January, 1D14.

Mr. ANSBERRY. I am trying to talk about something I know about. This sugar-beet business I know something about, and the gentleman from Michigan knows a good deal about it. But the fact remains that that factory was started in Toledo, Ohlo, withln 30 miles of Fremont, where you say the factory is • closed, and for a far different reason than the gentleman states.

Mr. FORDl\TEY. What was the reason that it closed? Mr. ANSBERRY. Because they could uot get the farmers to

raise sugRr beets in that good corn country . . Mr. FORDNEY. Yes; at a reduced price. Mr. ANSBERRY. Oh, no. Mr. FORDl\'EY. I want to say to the gentleman that the

price of sugar beets is 50 cents a ton below last year' prices, and there are any number of farmers who will not raise them because that means $5 to $7.50 an acre less for a crop than they have been receiving.

Mr. ANSBERR~. The gentleman · is mistaken; they could not get the farmers to raise the beets unless they paid them 50 cents a ton more than they paid two years ab'o, and that is tile reason that the Fremont factory has closed.

Mr. FORDNEY. If that is the reason, and that factory at Toledo bas been built and they are paying 50 cents more a ton for beets than was paid two years ago, you watch that concern go into bankruptcy inside of 12 months. -

Mr. ANSBERRY. · The reason that the factory at Toledo ca.n expend $2,000,000 in this investment and make sugar is because they do not intend to run only 90 days in a year.

1\fr. FORDNEY. That is all any of them run. Mr . .A.NSBERRY. There is no manufacturing busines · that

can make a return for the year and run only DO days in the year unless they are hothoused by a tariff or bounty.

1\fr. FORDNEY. Oh, wait a minute. Mr . .A.NSBERRY. Furthermore-and here is the statement-­

the Toledo factory is going to grind up sugar beets and make sugar, and they are also going to grincl something they get from Cuba, so that they will be in the business of making sugar not 90 days but for more than G months in each yeai".

1\Ir. FORDNEY. What they have done and what they are going to ,do are two different things. Just wait and see the outcome.

1\fr . .A.NSBERRY. I can see that. Mr. FORDNEY. I will tell the gent leman that there is no

money in the business at the present rate of duty, and when sugar goes upon the free list they must all go out of business. There is no question about that. and I will tell you why.

Mr. ANSBERRY. But the gentleman is going into the field of speculation.

1\fr. FORDNEY. Oh, I decline to yield further. Mr. ANSBERRY. The gentleman objected to my doing tlla.t. Mr. FORDNEY. Cuban sugar can be purchased for 2 cents

a pound. The freight on Cuban sugar is 10 cents per 100 pounds to New York, and the cost of refining is three-eighths of a cent to four-tenths of a cent. That is 2! cents a pound for refined sugar lnicl <lown in New York City under free trade. The beet-

1914. CONGRESSIONAL-RECORD--HOUSE.) 11485~

sugar manufacturers -in' this co-untry pay that s.um for ·the.-8-ogar in the beets at the factory, no matter in what State the fa~tory _ is located. That is the testimony before the Ilardwick sugar 1nYestigating' committee. How can we expend a cent' a pound in extraction and manufacture of sugar, making . it cost 3i cents, 'Vheu Ct1ban sugar to-day under free trade can be produced for 2! cents per pound? It is impossible.

There is one point about this matter to which I desire to call attention, without being sarcastic, and I do not accuse anyone of dishonesty. Either under the Roosevelt administra­tion or the Tuft administration prosecutions were begun against the refining ~ompauies of New York for fraud in underweighing and unden-alnations of sugar. The American Sugar Refining Co. and the Arbuckle Bros. paid inore than · $·3,000r000 in settle­ment of those suits. The Federal Sugar C{). also was indicted, and suit is pending to-day a gains~ t1!at co_m_p~n·y, · (/f which Mr. Spreckles is the president. . Frank C. Lowry is the sales agent of thn t factory. He took a very prominent part i:n the investigations before the Hardwick committee, and he testified a_ short time ago before a Senate committee that he wrote the " Farmers' sugat· bowl," in the Democratic Textbook. · I called upon the .Attomey General the oilier day· and · found ·that suit "is still peulling against the Fedei·al Sugar .Refining Co, and they were trong supporters of the present administration. · Now, YO!! can

drnw roui· own inference from that. I think it ratl;ler pectifiar that uJI of the rest of the suits have been concluded, and that tlle oue against the Federal · Sugar · Co. is not prosecuted as yet-and it is such a great ·friend to the · admiiJ.istration. Frank C. Lowry appeared before the sugar investig~ting committee and nmde all sorts of statements. He was testifying under onth. but that made no difference . . He argued his point. right or \Yroug. Tba t is the only concern indicted for fra nd in the batc-h of frauds that has n.ot yet been tried in the courts. '.fhe otllers haYe been tried and convicted and 4ave paid their fines. ancl some of the officers have been sent to prison.

1r. GARRETT of Tennessee. It is true, is· it not, that the Federal Sugar Refining Co. denies all guilt, ·and that the others, by compromise, virtually pleaded guilty? ·

Mr. FORD:XEY. Oh, no. All of them denied their guilt in the first place, but when the goods were found on them they pleaded guilty.

~lr. GARRETT. of Tennessee. But in the case of the Federal Co.--

l\lr. FORDNEY. It .has not yet pleaded guilty. ·1\lr. GARRETT of Tennessee. And it has denied absolutely

that it was guilty. :;\lr. FORDNEY. Yes; as did all of the others, until they

were brought face. to face with the facts, and were brought be­fore the bar of justice.

l\lr. GOODWIN of .Arkansas. .Whom did those who were con­victed SUl1port in the last campaign?

l\lr. FORDNEY. I do not know. I will say this, that Mr. Spreckles was a strong supporter of the Democratic administra­tion, because he looked to your party for free trade and got it, and you will not deny it.

:Mr. ADAIR It was stated when this bill was passed that it would put out of business the cane growers in Louisiana? ..

l\lr. FORDNEY. · Yes. l\Ir. ADAIR And the reason why a rate was given them for

three years was in order that they might .go into some other liue of business?

~Ir. FOllD)l'EY. Yes; and in the agricultural bill the House appropriated $50,000 and in the Senate th~t sum was raised to $100,000 to pay experts· to go down to Louisiana and educate those people in some other agri<:ultural lines.

l\lr . .AD .. .-HR. It was understood and admitted that the sugar-cane people would have to go out of business. .

1\lr. FORDNEY. Then .the gentleman agrees with me that the Democratic Party intended to put them out of business down there?

l\lr. A.D.A1R, I do agree with the gentleman that they will go out of the sugar business, and they ought to have gone out of it years ago, because it is not right to compel a hundred million of people to pay 2 cents a pound more for their sugar than they ought to pay.

l\lr. FORDNEY. Let ine answer that, please. Right at that point it was brought out before the -Hardwick sugar investigat­ing committee in 1911 that as soon as the domestic sugar crop was off the market sugar went to H cents a pound by the trusts in New York, upon the false statement· that fo1;eign raw sugars were selling at $6.40 a hundred ppunds, ~uty_·p~id, . ip",New York; and I 'went to · the Bul'eau of -Statistics in the Depa1:tment of Commerce and Labor and there obtained a · statement showing a.JI the importations of sugar from every country in the world

LI--724

into eyery port of entry in-this co.untry, and for 16 months prior to that time and during that time not a single pound of Euro- · pean raw sugar had come onto the markets at-all. The highest . price sugar brought in this country dming the· summer of 1!)11 was 7! cents a pound f. o. b. New York, and 2.74 was the highest

·price paid for any raw sugar by any refiner in this country dnr- · ing that time. .

The CHAIRMAN: The time of the gentleman has expired. l\Ir. STEPHENS of Texas. 1\Ir. Chairman, I desire ta yield

10 niinutes to the gentleman from California [Mr. KETTNER]. · Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Mr. Chairman, will the gentle­

Ip.an yielq. me three or .fo_ur minutes in order_ to ask the gentle­man from Michigan a question? •. Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. I yield the gentJeman from Ten-nessee fom: minutes. · - Mr. BURKE of South Dakota. · The gentieman from Michigan

desires five minues, and, if the geutle.man will permit me, I will yield th~ gentleman from Michigan five minutes more. .

Mr. E_'ORD.:to·.-r~w. I thank the gentleman, and I will try not to take up more time. - The ·.CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Michigan is recog­

nized for fi'Ve .minutes. -_ Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Mr. Chairman, -I want to ask the gentleman this: The gentleman maQe a charge some time. ago, an insinuation at least, touching the settlement of these ca~es fo1~ ~lleged frauqs in customs duties?

Mr. FORDNEY. Yes. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Now, the Arbuckles and the

American Sugar Refining Co. settled their part of it long before this administration came in.

· Mr . . FORDNEY. Partly so; those suits are not dismis ·erl · yet; but they at that time gave that much in part settlement. It may be they are dh;missed now.

Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Now, under that administra­tion : all these indictments were brought about the same -time, and the Federal Co. made no part of any settlement-- .

1\fr. FORDNEY. - Yes. Mr. GARREJTrl' of Tennessee. - As a matter of fact, ut.der that

administration, - and now the Federal Co. expHcitly denies it was ever guilty of any fraud in any way.- I would like to n k the gentleman if that is not true?

Mr. FORDNEY. That is true; yes, sir; that is my under­standing, and· that was .Mr. Lowry's stafement tiefore our com­mittee, that they denied the fact they committed any fra uLl . whatever, but the grand jury, after Jearing the case, returned an indictment against them.

Mr. GARRETT of •.rennessee. Th::t is, they did against the othei· companies. . .

Mr. FORDNEY. And also against the Federal Sugar Co. Of . course I may be wrong, and when brought to trial they may be · acqujtted, and I do not want to accuse _them wrongfully; but I said · it is a significant fact that this case has nQt yet been prosecuted, when it had been instituted more than two years ago.

Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Why were they not prosecuted under . the other administration? They were indicted at the same time.

Mr. FORDNEY. The Taft administration went out about the time these cases were to be prosecuted. I will be ·fair. 'l'he · Attorney _General .recently wrote me stating the reason why these cases had not been tried heretofore, within the past year, . was .because it was" unde-rstood it wotlld trike from 30 to 60 days to try this case; and there were more im-t~nt- cases that could be gotten out of the way within- a much less time. and therefore they have been passed-oYer. But l ie -tliut as it ·may, gentlemen, I say if it is fair to one it is fair to the other. Have I answered the gentleman's question?

Mr. GARRETT -of - Tennessee. To a -certain extent. The thing to which I objected, if the gentleman will permit, is that · the gentleman should- have suggested ·that tliis administrat ion has failed in its duty in prosecuting because of the fact that this particular company supported · this particular administration. Now, the other people-the Arbuckles and the Amelican Sugar Refining Cos.-supported the prior administration.

.Mr. FORDNEY. I think it was shown that they gave checks to both parties ...

Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Oh, that was long, long ago. Mr. FORDNEY. Oh, yes. Mr. G.A .. RRETT of Tennessee. In 1912; and, by the way, the

gentleman also remembers that the Democratic Party gave the check back which was ·given .to·. tliein. · ·

Mr. FORDNEY. _I bel1eve that is right; yes-bnt that was long, long ago.

111486 OONGRESSIONAii ;RECORD-· HOUSE .. JULY l .t

Mr. GAllRETr of Tennessee. Then why does the gentleman make the suggestion as to this administration not ~rosecuting these particular men?

Mr. FORDNEY. I will tell th~ gentleman why. Mr. GARRETT of Tennes~ee. "~hen the administration that

went out of power last March a year ago had the same oppor­tunity to prosecute them that they l1Ud to prosecute the other two.

Mr. FORDNEY. They were getting a1ong as fast as time and conditions would permit, and they were making good time, be­cause they collected from tho~ two companies and a few others over $4,300,000, but this one company has not yet been brought into court.

Bot the point I want to make-and I do not want to be unfait• about it-is that 1\Ir. Frank C. Lowry, the sales agent of the Federal Sugar Co., and 1\Ir. Spreckels, its president, took a prominent part in appearing before our committee. Mr. ·Lowry wrote that provision in the campaign textbook, he tes­tified, called the "Farmers' sugar bowl," and obtained a. re­duction, just what he was asking for, on sugar, and they get free trade on sugar on the 1st day of May, 1916. A · suit is pending in court against those .contributors to the campaign fund, and yet they are not prosecuted. There may not be any­tiling wrong in that, but in my opinion it looks a little suspi­cious. Favoritism, perhaps.

Tlle following are letters from American consuls at Lyons, France; Paris, E' rance; London, England; and Liverpool, Eng­land, showing fail· average retail prices of food products in those four foreign cities. For comparison I also ha-,e a list of prices of food products in Washington, which has been fm'­nished me from reliable sources and to which I will refel' :

Meats. Per pound. Lumb---------------------------------·---------------- ~-Tongue ___________________ ~------------------------------Beef------------------------------~---·-----------------­Rnck--------------------------------------------------- ­Veal-----------------------~----------·-----------------­Liver--------------------------------------------------­Ham----------------------------------------------------lGdney ________________________________________________ _

Sausage- ------------------------------------------------­Round steak------------------------------ ---------------Porterhouse steak-------------------------- ---------------Bacon--------------------------------------------------­Pork---- -----------------------------------------------Chicken ___ ________________________ ____ ____ _____ _________ _

Fish. Butterfish------------ ~----------------------------------­Halibut-------------------------------·------ --- --------­'l' ront- - ------------------------------------------------Cod----------------------------------------------------­Shad------- ~----------------------------- ~-- ------------Bluefish- - - - ---------------------- - - ---·-----------------­Bass-- - - ----------------------------·-------------------Salt mackerel-- - --- --------------- ----- --- ----------- ___ _

Miscellaneous. Lard------------------------------ - ---------'----------­COffee------ ------------- -------------------------------­Butter-------------------------~------------------------­Cheese - - --- ---------- ·--------·------- - -·--- - ------- - - - - ---

$0.1G .12-! .18 .18 .1G .12-4 .17 • 15 . 15 . 20 • 25 • 20 .17 . 20

• 08 .15 • 08 • 10 • 40 • 12-lt .10-.10

.09~

. 25 • !!5 .18

AMERlCAx Co~ U LAn SrnncE, Lyon, Frauce, June 18, 19V,.

Ron. JosErH W. FOllO:\'"EY, M. C., Washington, D . C.

Sm: I am in receipt of your favor of the Oth instant and give you below the prices prevailing at present in thi · city for tae various food­stuffs stated:

( Per pound.

~~:~=====::::::::::::=::::~::::::::::=:=::::::::::::::::::::: $O: ii" i~ $O: ~g Por1L------------------------------- .· 20 to . 25 Horsefies1L-------------------------~------ . 10 to . 14

~r:~~~==-=--=-::~=::::::~:-=.-=.:-=.::::-=.:::=:=::::.::.:.:.:.:::: : ~~ i~ : 6g ~~re~===::::.::::::::::::.:::::================= : gz~ ~ : ~g Tea-------- ----------------------------------- . 80 to 2. 00 Bt·ead _______________ ..; __________ :_______________ . 04 to . 04~

Potatoes: Old..---------------------------------------- . 01-! to . 02 NeW--------------------------------------- . 04: to . 04!

Tea is not used to any great extent, as wine is used ai practically every meal. Bread and soups made with breadstuffs, such as macaroni, vermicelli, tapioca., etc., sausages and other meat preparations made with the less expensive cuts of meats, form the principal dishes in the homes of the workingmen nnd middle class.

Tt·ustlng that this information may be or s~rvice to yoJ, I am, sir, Very respectfully. yours,

F. 'VAN DTl\'"E, A.met·ican Oon sttl.

CONSULAT E GE:YE.RJ.L OF THl!l U N I TED STATES OF .A.~IEIUCA , Pa r is, Jtme 18, 19J.!t.

Hon. JosEPH W. FonmmY, M. C., House of Representatit•es, Washington, D. C.

Sm: I hnve the honor to acknowll'dge the receipt or. your tetter ot June 9, 1914. requesting me to furnish you with a statement as t o the aYeragc retail pr1re ot certa in food products lu this city. .

~ take pleasure· in glvtng · you below a detailed list ·or •the average pnces at present prevailing for a Large number of the most essentia( articles in daily use, but I would ca'l your attention to the fact that in the case of meat the prices given are for the best cuts only, the interior pie-ces being sold at from 20 per cent to 30 per cent cheaper.

The meat, bread, and butter prices are those quoted in one of th& middle-class districts of the city, while the remaining figures are tho contained in the Latest price list of the well-known firm of Felli: Poti.u.

Per P er Article. kilogram. pound.

Beef. .....•..••••••.•••••.••.••••••........•...•••.••...... ,.eal . .....•••..•••••••••. ·-·························· .•.... Mutton. .•••••••••• 4 ......... ·.4······················· .... . Pork ..................................................... . Horseflesh ..••.•••.••••••..••.•••.........•..•.•••••. . .... . Flour ...•.•••.•••.•••••••••••••.......•••.•..••........ · ...

-~~!::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Do .•••••••••••••• ·-··································

Eg~<>: ::::::.::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 8~&!6: :·.·:: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::: Tea ...................................................... .

~~?. :::: ::::::::;::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

FranC$. 4.00 4. 00 3.50 3.00 2.40 . 50 . 40

14.80 ! 4. 00

l S3.00 1 ~ 1. 20

. 10 !(i. OO e.oo .90

6.20 . 30

Et. 60

~0.35 . 3!) .3lt7 • 2ii .21 .OH . 04 . 42 . 3f· .5." .2:: .O!i • 4-i . !iA .M . 54 .oz; .53 ~~!ee~l~~~~::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Nut oiL ........•.••....•.•••••••.••••.•••.•.......••.•.... '3.30 .. . . ..... ....... ...

~:n:;~;:·:·:·: :. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::, 1.90 ............... . .... ... ...

'10.95 . . ........ .. . .. ... ...

Dried vegetables: Haricot beans .•••••••••••••••••• _ ••••.••••••••••••••. Peas ....... . ...••..•••••••••••••••••••...•.••••••..... .

. Ch.~~tils •••••.• ··················--············ •••••••••

~~~~~;~~~~~~~i~~~j~j~~jjjjj~~jjjj~j 1 " "inter. 2 Summer. a Doz-en.

1. 20 ·· . 62

1. 20 .!!0 .90

' . 80 1.20 .95

1.40 1.00

. 10:0

. 4l

. 1 ,

.07

.l.':i-4.

.2}

.lS

.1..23

.14

4 Upward. ~ ·Kilogram equals 2.2 pounds. 6 Per Americ:1n pou.ncl ($2.11) • 7 Per liter. a Per gallon. • Each .

I trust that this information will be of value to you. and I am always at yom disposal for any further service which I can rE.>ndet" you at any time. I am, sir, ·

Very respectfully, yours, ELY E. PA..LiUER,

A merica n Vice Consul General in Chm·ue.

A)JE.RICAX COXSUL..!.n SETI"VfCE, 43 Ne w B;·oad Ett·eet, Lo11don, E, 0., Jqme ~V, 191-7 •

Hon. J OSEPH W. FORDXEY • House of Rem·esentati ~:es, Washington, D. 0., U. S. A .

Sm: In response to your inquiry of the fltll instant I have pleasu{'e in inclosing a list of average retail prices or various kinds of commob. foods in this country.

The figures gi>en are those generally prevailing, and will not be taken as indicative of the prices ruling in high-class residential netglt­borhoods .

Horseflesh is not used for human consumption in tbl~ count ry . The prices for meats show the average for the -different joints o..­

~t:eas~~~ pork the price is approximate, us this food is not at present

Respectfully, RICHARD WESTACOTT, Vice Oons1tl dene;·al i1~ Ohm·ae.

RE'l'AIL PRICES.

Veal , 1s. to 1s. 2d. pel' pound (24 cents to 28 cents). Beef, 9~d to ls. 2d. per pound (19 cents to 28 cents). Pork, 10d~ to 11d. per pound (20 cents to 22 cents). Butter, 1s .. ~- 1d., 1s. 2d. to 1s. 4d. per pound (24 c.ents, 2G cents,

28 cents to 32 cents). Flour, 10~d. per 5 pounds, 7d. per 3~ pounds, 2s. per 14 pounds {!!l

cents, 14 cents, 49 cents). Bt·ead, 3d. per half quurtern loa! (6 cents) . Sugar, 2d. and 3d. per pound ( 4 cents and 6 cents) .

• Tea, 1s. Ad., 1s. 6d., 1s. 8d. to 2s. 6d. nnd upward per pound (32 cents, 36 cents. 40 cents to 61 cents, etc).

Coffee, 1s. 6d. to ls. 10d. per pound (36 cents to 44 cents) . Eggs, 1s. ld. to 1s. 6d. per dozen (!.!6 cents to 36 cents) . Che-ese, 8d. to lld. per pound (16 cents to 22 cents ) . Bacon,. 1s . . to 1s. 2d. per pound (24 cents to 28 cents). Milk, 4d. per quart (8 cents).

Ron. JosEPH ·w. FoRo .·EY, :M. C.,

AliEnrCAX Co~S L'LAR SEnVICE, Liu rpfJol, England, Jun e 1 , 191.S.

United States Hot1se of Rep1·esentativ es, l!asltington, D. 0.

Srn : i: have the himOl' to acknowledge receipt ot your lette.r o! th 9til Instant, and the consulate has great pleasure in inclosing . herewith •

·report on the prices in the Liverpool district ot. the meats and oth r commodities you .mention.

Very respectfully, yom·s, fi~)RACE L E WASRI.8Gl.'ON;,

A. iilcr fcan Co-nsul.

.,, •" 19-14. CO~GRESSIONAL RECQR.D-.. HOUSE. IJ487_

Inclosure: Report- on pl'ices of meats and other commodities. RETA:u , I'mcF.s oF CF.TIT.nx .llE~Ts A~D OTHER C01DIODITIES, LtYERPOOL,

.EXGLA~D.

StatE>ment sho""iug the fair average prices of certain meats and other commodities in Liverpool, England, on the ~7th of June, 1014, viz:

EXGLISH TEAL, BEEF, AXD rORK.

Veal (as sold in shops, retail), per carcass, 18~ cents per pound. l\Iade up into cuts: Le.gs, 22 cents per pound; hind quarters, 22 cents per pound: fillets, 28 cents per pound; neck, 17 cents pet· pound; fore quarters, 15 cents pee pound; shoulders, 17 cents pee pound; breast, 12~ cents per pound ; cutlets. 30 cents per pound.

Beef: English sides, 14 cents per pound; bind quarters, . 16~ cents pet· pound ; fore quarters, 12 cents per pound. Made up into bind­quarter cuts: Shoulder bone, 18 cents per pound; rumps, 16 cents per pound ; sirloins, 22 cents per pound ; rum steak, 30 cents per pound ; shins, 5 cents per pound. Fore-quarter cuts: Ribs, 19 cents per pound; thick fiat rib, 15 cents per po.und; thick. flat rib (cheek), 15 cents per pound; briskets, 12 cents per pound; stewing beef, 18 cents per pound.

rol"l{ : Per carcass, 15 cents per pound; legs, 18 cents per pound; loins, 20 cents per pound ; shoulders, 16 cents per pound ; bellies, 18 cents per pound; hinds, D cents per pound.

Butter: Il"isb, 26 cents per pound; Danish, 28 cents per pound. )1argarine, for cooking, 12 to 20 cents per pound. Flour, 42 to 46 cents per 14 pounds. Bread, 3 cents per pound. Lump sugar, 5 cents per pound. Tea 2 to 56 c~nts per pound. Coffee, 32 to 48 cents per pound. :Milk, conder.tsed, 12 cents per 1-pound tin; 6 cents per ~-pound tin. Rice, 4 to 6 cents per pound. Cheese, ordinary, 18 to 22 cents per pound. LIVEI:tPOOL, ENGLAND, June 18, 191-'t.

The CHAIR~IAN. The time of the gentleman has expired. :Mr. STEPHENS of •.rexas. Mr. Chairman, I yield 10 minutes

to the gentleman from California [Mr. KETTNER]. 1\fr. KETT~ER. :Mr. Chairman, I hold in my hand the

Oi·ange County Plain Dealer, a Republican paper, published in Orange County, Cal., in my district. There are six sugar · fac­tories in this county. I wi1l send the paper up to the desk and a. k the Clerk to read the editorials.

1\fr. FORDNEY. Will the gentleman permit one question? I will be brief.

dr. KETTNER. With pleasure. .Mr. FORDNEY. It is a fact that there is not a pound of

duty-paid sugar brought on the Pacific coast and bas not been for years. There has not been a pound of free sugar brought on the Atlantic coast for years except from our insular posses-

ionJ3, and yet generaUy sugar prevails at higher prices on the Pacific coast than on the Atlantic coast.

l\lr. KETTNER. Well, I believe sugar, if I remember rightly, is selling at 22 pounds for the dollar on the Pacific coast, and I belie•e that is what the gentleman from Michigan stated it was selling for in his borne town.

:Mt'. FORDNEY. It is very recently that it bas sold for that, lJecanse I bought it there for that price for se•eral years.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the Clerk will read the · article which the gentleman from California [Mr. KETTNER] sends to the Clerk's desk. [After a pause.] r.rbe Chair hears no objection.

The Clerk read as follows. It is folly for good people here in California to look blue, wear crepe_

on their sleeves, . and bemoan themselves because of adverse business conditions. The Plain Dealer would like to make believe, as a bit of permi. ::.ible political jugglery. that Democt·atic administration bas played havoc with all ~ings mundane; but the facts all point t'other way. Our· oil wells keep on gushing. We nevet· before have bad such a fruit crop or got so much money for it. Our gt·ain crops are overfine. 'l'be Lord sent bountiful rains, and the soil has made bountiful answer. 'l'bc sugar-beet ct·op will be the largest the State ever produced despite a somewhat lessened acreage It will bring over $15.000,000 to the coffe.t·s of growers and refiners. To shout "bard times" in the free of such disproof Is the sheerest folly. California bulges with plf:uty and to

pare. We agree with the San Francisco Chronicle. June 15: "There. are no bard times in this State. The interior i'3 prospering, and the cltie.:; are prospering with it."

THE TARIFF Al\l> BUSD"'BSS.

The California orange crop for 1914 bas been mainly disposed of at pt·ices comparing favorably with sales of previous seasons. The tariff blight that was to wither the citrus industries of the State somehow or othet· failed to eventuate according to the political prospectus. Same way with sugar. In the first six months of the operation of. the

ndet·wood tariff. from October to March, the imports of cane sugar amounted to 1,650,000,000 pounds compared with 1,809.000,000 pounds in the corresponding six months of 1912-13. while of beet sugar the impot·ts fell to 1.250.000 pounds in comparl on with 182,000.000 pounds in the half-year period which ended March. 1913. Of course, these fignres do not bear out the predictions of the opponents of tariff re­duction, but they should set·ve to put an end to- unnecessary alarm amon~ California beet ~rowers and beet-sugar refiners.

As illustrating the prese•t conditions in the sugar market we quote }~~efoJl~wing informative item of uews from the Philadelphia Record,

" Six thousand tons . of sugar advanced $33,750 in value while lying in the ' bold o'f the Austrian steamship Esrpm for one week while the ves~el t•emained in the Delaware River. unable to get a wharf upon which to unload her eargo. Yesterday the owne1·s of the sugat· wei'e jubilant over the delay. even though they had to pay · the · owners of the yessel $10.000 demul'L'age for using the steamet· as a warehouse . . Thi:!ir profit on the delay was still more than $20,000."

There is no shortage in the cane-sugar crop to induce this sharp advance in prices. The largest yield of many years bas been safely gathered in Cuba. A quick European demand is sending prices up. The eastern refineries can not get raw sugar fast enough to meet the call of purchasers for the refined product. Our sugar-beet growers may take heart. Blue ruin has been indefinitely postponed. ·

Mr. MO?\TDELL. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. KETTNER. I shall be glad to do so. 1\Ir. MONDELL. In view of the fact that the Government ·

has lost a very great deal in revenue on the importation of sugar, and the statement is made that sugar bas not been re­duced in price, who has benefited by the reduction of the tariff on sugar?

Mr. KETTNER. The consumer, as far as--Mr. MONDELL. Can the gentlem·an point to any spot or

place where the consumer has bought any sugar cheaper under the Underwood tariff bill than he did before?

.l\Ir. KETTNER. ..ill over the United States. Mr. MONDELL. Where over the United States? Mr. KETTNER. In California, as I personally know. Mr. 1\IONDELL. The claim of the article that has just been

read is· that sugar has not been reduced in price. Mr. ANSBERRY. Will the gentleman · permit an interrup­

tion? I know it is true. It is cheaper 'here in the city of . Washington and has been by reason of the reduction. Of course, I am not responsible for that article.

Mr. MONDELL. I do not want to take the time of the gentle­man from California, but I happen to be a man of fami1y-­

Mr. ANSBERRY. You are not the only one in the United States. ·

Mr. MONDELL. And I do not buy sugar cheaper under ibe Underwood tariff bill than I did before.

Mr. ANSBERRY. The gentleman is mistaken about it. He is hoodwinked-by the man who sells him sugar.

Mr. KETTNER. I bad the Clerk read that article, because I could readily see that conditions are different in different parts of the country. After listening to the colloquy between the gentleman from Michigan [Mr. FOBDNEY] and the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. ADAIR], and. having read this editorial, I knew that the main difference was in the production or the soil, ·or in the handling of the different crops in different · sec­tions of the country. I think that has more to do with it than the tariff.

l\Ir. FORD:i\'EY. If the gentleman will permit me, I will say this in fairness to him: It was shown that in the arid- ' land region, where beets were raised by giving them water when they wanted it, and where they always h~d sunshine, as compared with the territory where they depended upon tl1e elements, the percentage of 1-mgar in the b~ets ranged about · 2 per cent greater in the arid country than in the country where they depended on the elem~nts. You have on the Pacific coast, · with · irrigation, a larger tonnage and a larger percentage of sugar in the beets, and a consequent advantage in that way, but you ha•e a disadvantage in freight rates.

Mr. KETTNER. Does not the gentleman thillk the soil has more to do with the raising of beets in the different part!3 of the country than the tnriff?

l\Ir. FORDNEY. Bless you, no. The difference in the ad­vantage with irrigation and sunshine all the time is not enough to offset the duty-the protection and the duty. Ob, no ; not one-tenth part.

Mr. KETTNER. The only conclusion I could come to after reading that article and hearing the debate is that the soil and climate conditions . are of very great importance in the profitable production of sugar from sugar beets.

Mr . .ANSBERRY. I want to know if the gentleman knows. any manufacturing business in the State of California or else­where in the United States that only operates its plant 00 days in each year and still does a prosperous business? Do you know of any other manufacturing business, other than su(l'ar,

:under similar conditions? · Mr. KETTNER. I do not. Mr. ANSBERRY. No one el e does. ·Mr. FORDNEY. There are other industries. Mr. ANSBERRY. Ob, what are they? Mr. FORDNEY. Artificial-ice plants, for instance. Mr. ANSBERRY. Oh, artificial-ice plants run all the year

round. Mr. KETTNER. Mr. Chairman, I wish to correct the answer

just made to the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. _'\.NsBEBBY]. There are other industries in California where the factories run only three or four months in the year, such as the fruit canneries and oliYe factories. ·

Another article from the San Diego Tribune, which is a leadjng llepnblican paper,· goe to show that condHions are not

...

I 488_ ·~ CONGRESSIONAL REOOJtD-. HOUSE. JULY ~~

so bad as we- are letl to belie-ve- b-y the gentleman from Wyo-ming [Mr. l\Ioxm:u.J: CA.LIJrO~U'S FIELDS A~ ORCH.lRDS ARE l7lE LD:tXG A Jro~-:rr:OUS: HARTrST.

When this year's cropg a~e llarre ted rutd marketed Ca.Iifor.n.ia will be nearly half a billion d(}nars richer than she was before she began plow-ing, pruning, spraying, feeding.. :uld planting. . . .

The exact estimate of ~ primary value " upon the. leadmg £'l'Oducts, of the State is $4i4,000,000.

That is a lot of ID(}ney, and it will all flo:w in the- channe-ls ~ lo.cal­traffie : muc-h of it w-ill come- from be'yond our b~ers, and all ~f 1t will pas& through OUl' pockets before any portion of It gets awas from the Commonwealth. -

A o·ood part of it will stay here in permanent improvements . It is exhilarating to read the figures and to class?fY the va:ted output: 011r grain crop. totals $31,000,000 ~ our frmt croP:. mc-lrn;ive of

canned, dl"ied, green, citrus, and cantaloupes, ag;regate -$85.,~000,000. e~ which $35,000,00{). is credited to the- ·citrus proouct una $o,OOO,OOO to cantaloupe , the bulk of wb.ieb will eome from ~ Imperlal Valley~ our dait·ies will produce $86,000,000 ; our poultry will be worth $2,000,-000 and the eggs thereof will cost the consumer $15,000,000, which he will gladly pay,. because the p.rice will not be exorbitant this year, although it will yield a handsome profit to the owners of the industrious hens ; our ve"'etables, including canned, beans. f.otatoos, sugar beets, onions, etc.., wlll seU for $42,000,f100, of which $1 -;~000,000 must furnish a clear profit for the bean growers; hay and rorag.e wUl be .worth $50,000,000 ; oil, $501000~000; -w;ine and brandy, $30,000,000;. gold. $20 000,000; othe~: uuneraJ produets, $30,000,000; cotton. $4.',500,000; hops, $4,000,000 ; nuts, !$4,000,000; o!iTes and oil, $3,000,000 ; and wool, $2,000,000.

Aml all this in <Wspite of a. Democratic tatift: whkh contracts our eastern market.

It happens, howevet·, that the f.oreign producer is somewhat sho1·t this year ;' neither has he had an OIJ'PO<rtunity to take his fuJI a<lvantage of Democratic generosity. ·

Next year it ma-y be diffa·ent; bat this year lt is a; golden harvest for California.

There are only two flies in the ointment: The prune crop is not what it ought to ·be, and there w:ill be an overproduction ·o:r hay:.

But we could hardly expect e~erytliing to come our way, and if the pri-ee of. prunes goes to famine in the cafeteria belt of: Chicago, or if hay becomes a drug fn the market, we must be content to &agger along under the load of prosperity that the demand !en· our other more bounteous crops impose on ns.

Prunes have had their day-many of them-and others are to come; and the surp-lus hay will not be wasted. ·

Then. there is compensation in the barley cro_p which is so plenteous that the warehouses will not hol-d it-; and it runs 60 pounds. to the bushel as against the shipping requirement of 4G pounds; there is a world market for barley and ther-e will be no dangeF of ovecrstoeking it.

Therefore let California be-gin to rejoice in this h-er- yeu of jubilee. And with the opening of th~ Panama Canal there ~11 be ma.ny, many

similar years. We haven't begun to tap the resources of the richest regio-n on the

face of the earth. Ca:lifQrnia. is certainly not a hospitable place for the pessimist and

the knocker.

Mr. STEPHENS of 'l'exas. Mr. Chairman, I yield two min­utes tcr the gentleman from Indiana [1\h. ADAIR}.

The CHAIR-1.\L\N. The geiJ.tleman fram Indiana EMr. AnA:IB] is recognized for two nlinutes.

Mr. ADAIR. Mr. Chairman, out in Indiana, in my dif:triet. we ha-ve one of the- largest sugar factories in the country r built at an expense of nearly $1,000>,000. This sugar factory is op­erated by the St Louis Holland Sugar Co. It is under the­management of ·william ·H. Hubbard, an excellent gentleman, who has been ·connected with that concan for a great many years~ a man in whom I have implicit confidence:; a. man whose honesty and integrity and h-uthfulness can not be que-stioned.

When. the Underwood tariff bill was 'lmder consideration: a little over a year ago, I talked personally with Mr. Hubbard about the tariff an sugar. I was inta·estro not only in that industry in my district but in e\ery other industry there, and I did not propose to Tote for the l'emo-T"al of any duty i( I thought it would close a smg1e factory o-r mill in my district 01~ elsewhere.

1\lr. FORDNEY. Mr. Chah·man, will the gentleman. yield there for one· question?

Th.e OHAIRl\IAN. Does the gentleman from Indi3.nc.'l yield to the gentleman from l\fichigan: '2

Mr. ADAIR. With pleasure.. 1\Ir. FORDNEY. The thought just came to me, and I thank

the gentleman for yielding. I want to say to the gentleman from Ohio that there is not a single sugar indlliltrF in the world, whether in the United States or in :ucy other country, thn t runs more than from 00 to 120 days. •

Mr. ADAIR The gentleman from Michigan is tight. They run only from 90 to 120 days, but they have been ma..king m()Iiey.

Kow, getting back to the gentleman of whom I have jliSt spoken, he told me himself that the present rate of duty> on sugar wa ample and sufficient. He said he recognized that the people of thi country were demanding and were expecting a. reduction of the tariff all along the line, and tile- only thing he objected to was the three-year limit. He said to me that if the sugnr manufacturers of this country-that is,. the b~t­sugat mamlfactuters-were giren the present rate for 10 years, they could put the beet-s~aar business on a ~~lid brr.sis

· and in. a few ye:ns make all the- sugar the colmb·s could con­Slllll1e'.

I know the beet-sugar factories run only from 90 to 1.20 days, and they make· money at that. In my district the farmers are still raising sugar beets, and they get as much money for them · as they got a year ago. I do not think this reduction of duty mil close u. single beet-sngar factorr in this country. I know the cane-sugar manufacturers of Louisiana will have to· go out of fmsiness. It has b(>en repeatedly stated that they can not manufacture sugar fi•om cane as cheaply as sugar is manu­factured .Out of beets, a~d they ought to go out of business. It is wrong to tax 0~,000,000 people 2 cents a pound on every pound of sugar they buy, simply in order to keep in business hothouse indush·y down in_ Louisiana. But the sugur-beet fnc­tories will continue to make sugar in this co-untry, regard!esg, of th.e present rute, nnd when sug:u· goes on the free list they will still manufacture sugar, and in time wm manufacture nll this coniltry co-nsumes.

My district is a · corn-raising district, und the land there is Taluable; but notwithstanding the reduction of the duty oo sugar, sugar beets are still bringing the same price- as they brought heretofore, and the beet-sugar manufu.cturing bus-iue ·s will go on.

1\lr. FORDNEY. 1\Ir. Chairllilln, will the gentlemnu yiehl again there?

1\Ir. ADAIR. Yes. 1\Ir. FORDNEY. You snid that the people should not be

taxed · Z cents a pound on the .sugar they consume. There Itas been no time since I can remember when thes- were taxed 2 cents a pound. That is merely ~rr. Lowry's claim. ·

1\fr. AD.Alll. It was $1.90 a hundred. It was nea.rly 2 cents, a pound. It amounted to about $125,000,000 each year the · people were compelled to va..v for sugar more thnn they ought to ha'\e paid. It was extortion, and it ought to. haTe been wiped " out years ago. ·

Mr. STEPHR..'S of Texas. Mr. Chn.irman, I yield one miunte to the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. ANSBERRY].

The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Ohio [hh'. ANSRERRY} is recognized for one minute.

Mr. ANSBERRY. Mr. Chairman, I want to Stly to the gentle-­lWln from 1\Iic.hi.gan [1\lr. FoRDNEY} that he has not yet answered­the q·uestion I propounded and the questi(}n that was pt·o-­po-unded by the gentleman from California [Mr. KETTNF;R J. I made the statement that there were no manufac:turing busi­nesses in. the United States or elsewhere that were operated only 90 days in the year and were ulliformly prosperous. Tlle gentle­Ilh'lll from ...liehigan mentioned arti:fieial ice. The gentleman, if he knows anything about the manufacturing of artificial ice._ kllows that they run all the year round. It will not do for the gentleman to say that sugar mills run only 90 dttys in any other country. That is true.; but· in otl;l.er countries where sug!lr is manufactured from beets the Go-vernment pays a bounty.

Mr. FORD:J\TEY. Where? Mr. ANS.BERRY. In Bri~sin. 1\lr. FORDNEY. Oh, they are nat paying a bounty now. l\Ir • .ANSBERRY. Just a moment. Do not get excited. They

paid a bounty until only recently; nnd perhaps do yet. And a an instance of the disastrous effects of imp-ort duty ou the suga1.·· inuustry I w~nt to cite the case of the sugar conSUL\ler ht France~ where. despite the fact that they manufacture mor . beet sugar than they consume and annually expo.rt millions of pounds, the poor French consumer pays more for it than do we. I mention this because the sugar-beet interests have been be­sieging Congress time out of mind asi.."ing for u hlgb protective tariff, and seeking to lull the opposition of the outraged Aniet·­ican people by the o-I<l familiar cry, tr Give us yet -another l<' years o-f protection and w-e will produce all the sugat· consumed. in America." Arid the-y continued~ ~Then sogar will be cheaper.'" Doubtless the French public was bl'gniled in the selfsame fashion.

Now, it will not do for the sugar-beet people to tell m~. H If you ~m · only . gi'\·e us 10 years more we will rnise enougit 1

sngur for the entire United States." They ha\e been S!lyint;: that a long time.

Mr. FfJRDNEY. But yon did not give them 10 :years. Mr. ANSBERRY. They ha-re been m:mufacturing be-N Stlgar

for more than 10 years. Mr. FORDNEY. Yes; but under -a;, reduction of dnt:r e¥l'ry

little while. Mr. ANSBERR-Y. !'io reduction. at all. Ur. FORDNEY. The gentleman must be fn ir. Mt·. ·ANSBERRY. Practically ~one for 20 'y-e:a rs.

11489 Mr. FORD~TEY. Oh, if the gentleman will not be fair-- A large percentage of the cotton merchants-particularly tho e l\1r. ANSBERRY. I llave only a minute. in the interior markets of the South-buy cotton daily when the Mr. l!'ORDNEY. I gave the gentleman a great denl of my receipts are liberal, though they may h:rve no orders for it

time, and be ought to be fair. from their correspondents. They are constantly buying in an-Mr. ANSBERRY. I will yield to the gentleman. The gentle- ticipation of orders, and their buying supports the market and

man was ...-ery courteous. enables farmers to sell their cotton readily and at much better Mr. ] ORD?\"'EY. Is it not true that Cuban reciprocity re- prices than tlley could obtain if the merchants would not buy

duced the duty 20 per cent? without actual orders in hand for the cotton offered. Mr. Al'\SBERRY. Yes. .As the merchants buy spot cotton in anticipation of orders Mr. FORDNEY. The gentleman said there had been no re- for it, they at once sell "cotton futures" in New York or New

duction. Orleans to the extent of their purchases. This is called "hedg-lJ'. ANSBERRY. I My substantially none. ing." and protects them from loss should spot cotton decline

Mr. FORD1\EY. If you take off 20 per cent of a man's head, before they dispose of their purchnses, as their Joss on it would c:m you say that it is substantially an on? be compensated for by their profit on the sales of "futures"

Mr. ANSBERRY. Nevertheless, in spite of that fact, the agaiust it. manufacture of beet sugar has not increased in this country in Cotton is sold for cash in southern cities and towns, and mer­proportion to the amount of sugar consumed. Proportionately chants often have to obtain advances from the banks before to that they are making just about what they did 10 years they can draw against their shipments. It greatly facilitates aO'o about J4 per cent. Is not tlult true? The increased pro- the securing of such advances when "cotton futures .. have been u~ction barely kept pace with increased consumption. sold against the cotton on which the loans are desired, because

Mr. FORD~EY. · Will the gentleman yield just a minute? the spot cotton is thus protected from a decline in the market. Mr. ANSBERRY. I haYe a little time left, and I will yield to The system of dealing in "cotton futures •• gives manufac-

the gentleman. turers of small means equal advantages with those posse sing :Mr. FORD!\'EY. 'l'he gentleman sai<l there was no other in- large capital in selling their product far into the future. With­

dustry in the United States that ran as short a time as the out the aid of the " futures" system it is ,·cry evident tllat the . beet-sugar industry that made as large profits. The canning manufacturet·s of small or moderate capital would be at a very industry does not run as long as the beet-sugar industry. serious disadvantage.

:Mr. ANSBERRY. What canning industry? The dealing in "cotton futures" on the New York and New Mr. FORDNEY. Ask the gentleman from California. Orleans Cotton Exchanges, whlch the Lever cotton-future-s bill Mr. ANSBERRY. No; I will ask the gentleman from Mich- would curtail and eventun.lly n.bolish, is nncloubtedly of great

igan. What canning industry? ndvnntage to the cnttou growers in preventing the great de-Mr. FORDNEY. Peaches and fruit of every description, peas'" pression in price which formerly prevailed when the bulk of

beans, and salmon. Salmon canning lasts only about three the crop was being marketed. Many cotton merchants of ex­months in the year, and is one of the greatest industries in the perience can without hesitancy recall many instances when nn country. active demand for "cotton futures,. hn::; caused an advance in

Mr. AKSBERRY. 'l'bese canning plants can one vegetable "spot cotton" or checked and prevented a decli 1l.e. part of the year and another vegetable another part of the yea1·, The adoption of the Lever bill, I feel certaiu. will curtail so tltat they run practically six months, and they require a very the business of the cotton exchanges in this country. and ihe small plant investment as compared with the sugar business, price of cotton, which is one of the chief products of the ~outh, and they are not asking to be given the privilege of taxing the will eventually be dictated by the markets of Eutope. <;tnd people of the United States that tlley may continue in business. especially by LiveiJlOOL The cotton dealers and pjnners of And so, I repeat, the sugar-beet industry, if it be a hothouse Europe would always be in favor of low prices and just ns low industry-thn t is to say, an indush-y dependent upon a special as they coulcl be forced. With no resistance on llie part of PJ,ivilege gi...-en by the _Government to permlt it to exist-has the producer and his friends, the contest would be one- 'itle<l not even the poor, threadba1·e, shelf-worn excuse that it is an and unequal, and hence the price-making power would be sm­infant indush'Y. It is too old to be an infant, and if it is eve1~ rende1·ed to foreign interests and the farmer would be com­to ·desert its perambulator-. it should do so now, taking advan- pelled to dispose of his cotton at the low prices fixed by tlw tage of the cane which the existing duty represents until it spinners of Liverpool, Bremen, and Havre. _ beComes accustomed to walk alone. I sympathize with the L-oui- Should our cotton exchanges be curtailed. then ull the in­siaila sugar planter, bnt he likewise has made but little head- formation as to the price of cotton in all the markets of the way. only producing, as he produced a decade ago, 9 per cent world and all the information as to conditions which go to make of our sugar consumption. Of the few possessions I own ru·e a up the price and the price outlook would be no longer dis­few hundred acres of land on the edge of the sugar belt. My seminated. The buyer and the manufacturer would know what attitude and ...-ote has temponnily depreciated its value, but I the Liverpool Exchange and other foreign exchanges were am comforted by the thought that I cast my ...-ote in the interest doing, but the producer and the merchant, especially in small of my district and the overbm·dened consumers of our country. towns, would be unable to ascertain the p1·ices. Thus tl1e

Mr. FORDNEY. Evidently the gentleman does not know how farmer would be at the mercy of the purchaser, and all the much money is inYcsted in that industry. American cotton ti·ade would be at the mercy of the foreign

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. I yield five minutes to the gentle- cotton manufacturers, who woulcl be intent upon buying cotton man from New York [Mr. LEvY]. as cheaply as possible.

Mr. LEVY. Mr. Chairman. many persons who have not fully l\1r. Chairman, at this point I wonld like to express my high investigated the subject entertain the opinion that the transac- opinion of the members of the New York Cotton Exchange. tions on the New York and New Orleans cotton exchanges in For their business integrity there is no higher class of men cotton for future delivery arc almost entirely for speculation in the United States. Many of them are from Southern States,. and of no service to legitimnte interests. bnt they are true and loyal citizens. They handle millions and

This belief is very erroneous, for, as a matter of fact, the millions of dollars of business without the scratch of a pen, and .facilities for the buying and selling of "cotton futures" on never is there any doubt or question as to their word. these two exchanges are absolutely essential to the successful Of course, the so-called .. cotton-futures" bill is absolutely prosecution of the business of the cotton merchants and manu- unconstitutional and will fle so declared. It is class legisla­facturers as conducted at the p1·esent time. tion, and trying to tax out of existence contmct for futures

Cotton merchants throughout the country are constantly com- whlch have been declared legal by the ~upreme Court of the pelled to sell cotton of specified grades with the slipnlation that United States and the courts of the last resort in every State the deli...-ery of some or all of it will not be made until some in this Union. It is just as lawful for a man to sell for time in the future. By buying "cotton futures" at the time of future delivery as it is for him to sell for immediate delivery, their sale of actual cotton for forward delivery the cotton · deal- · and both are valid contracts under the law. ers can ' protect themseh·es from loss should an advance in price M.r~ Chairman, boards of trade m·e true eyolutions of that occur before the time for them to ship the cotton. As the cot- doctrine of equality which has dominated the world-the ton is purchased to meet their sales.. they dispose of their pur- equality and liberty of man. The pOOl' man with small capital ehases of .. futures," and if the price of spot cotton has ad- who goes into the great chambers of commerce an<.l tile boards vanced they will be reimbursed by the profit on. their trunsae- of trnde with all the information exposed to his view to protect t1on in "fuhues." Should "futures" decline after. their pur- himself from being gonged and destroyed needs only the light (base, the loss will be made up by the greater profit they will of the reason which God bas given him. It is pntting .llilu on, znake by the decline in spot cotton· since their sale of it. equality with the rich.

11490 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 1

The so-called Lever cotton-futures bill, if enacted into law. will strike down all the trading which c~n be done at an equal ad-\-antage and stimulate the trading where the small ~.an will be at the mercy o! the big man. An over the world-m Eng­land, in Germany, in Austria, in France, in Hollan~, in India, in Egypt, everywhere-this system of forward-delh-ery sales, which is an e\olution to meet the wants of modern trade, ob-tains and is practiced. _

When a bill which would ha\e practically prohibited buying and selling of "cotton futures" was under cvnsideration in the United States Senate on July 21 and 22, 1892, the Hon. Edward Douglas White, then a Senator from the State of Lo~1isiana and now Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the Umted States, deli\ered a speech in opposition to the measure. I ask unani­mous consent to insert as a portion of my remarks the speech de1i'rered by him, in which he speaks of the perfect legality of contracts for cotton ·for future delivery and the unconstitution­ality of Federal laws to prohibit such contracts, and which is an ex cathedra opinion that the so-called cotton-futures bill is absolutely illegal.

The ClliURMAN. The gentleman from New York [Mr. LEvY] asks unanimous consent to extend hi remarks by insert­ing in the RECORD the speech referred to. Is there objection?

There was no objection. The speech referred to is as follows:

"SPEECH OF HON. EDWARD D. WHITE; OF LOL"ISUNA. IN THE SE~ATE OF THE UNITED STATES, THURSDAY, JULY 21, AND FRIDAY, JULY 22, 189Z.

"The Senate having under consideration the bill (H. R. 7845) defin­ing • options ' and 'future ,' imposing special taxes on dealers therein, and requiring such deale1·s and persons engaged in selling certain prod­ucts to obtain license, and for other purposes-

" 111r. WHITE. Mr. President, the T'OteN which ha\e been hitherto lk'ld in the Senate to take up this bill and the general line on which the argument has proceeded seem to indicate that there is probably a majority sentiment on the floor in favor of the bill. I should hesitate very much with this knowledge to make any T"ery elaborate discussion as to the constitutionality of the bill, or as to the wi~dom of the legislation which it pro­pounds if I were not profoundly conscious that, in my judg­ment there has been before the American Congress for many year~ no more pernicious, no more Yicious, no more flagrantly unconstitutional legislation, no legislation more tending to un­dermine and destroy the \ery foundations of our GoT"ernment, and none more calculated to do untold and untellable harm to the people of thi great country. The intere~ts which this pro­posed legi lation affect are enormous. The products the price or sale of which the bill attempts to regulate run up into ynst proportions. I excerpt a statement from the testimony of Mr. Bacon, the president of the Mil waukee Chamber of Commerce, in which he says:

"The cotton c1·op of the country, which i. handled in a similar way, is estimated at $303,000,000 for the current year. For last year it was estimated at $g7o,ooo,ooo. The meat product of the country is esti­mated at from $600,000,000 to iGO,OOO,OOO annually. These, added to the cereal products, make an aggregate of $2.GOO,OOO,OOO in value, a lar"'e proportion of which is disposed of during a small portion of the yea'r, which is requh·ed for consumption d}lring: the whole ye~r.

"These figures, of course, convey but httle Idea to the mmd without comparison. When we consider that the silver product of the country, which has been the subject of such extensive legislation for the past 15 years, is only about !JO,OOOAOO.O in value, we will see that the amount is relatively more than 5u times as much.

" The value of the annual agricultural productions of the country is nearly, equal to the aggregate of the national debt at the close. of the war the amount of which we have only reduced about one-half. It is only by comparison of these figures that one can reach an approximate idea of the magnitude of the interests Involved in this question.

"The theory of the Senator who presents the bill and who urge· it with so much zeal on this floor is that if ~he bill pas es, to all the great body of the consumers of this country, represent­ing 78 per cent of the population, there is to be an enhancement in the cost of these yast products. If, then, the arguments of the proponents of the bill be true, upon nearly $3,000,000,000 of products the effect of this legislation will be to increase the price to all the consumers of the country.

"My judgment is, on the other hancl, that if t}le bill passes the necessary effect will be to reduce the price obtained IJy the producers of the country in a considerable degree upou this great sum.

"With these great issues inT"olved in this bill, issues which go home to every henrthstolie in this land, issueN which reach out their fingers into the pockets of every man, be he rich or poor, I think I shu 11 be justified in an attempt to discuss its IH'O\ision deliberately, in order to point out what I conceiv-e to be the flngrant constitutional defects which are in\olved in it, :md the gros financial and business heresie which it contains.

"Mr. President, let me analyze the bill. What does the first section pt'O\icle? It has been gone over T"ery frequently, but I

shall go o\er it again in order to make clear -what I shall en­deavor to say.

" The first section forbius options, which in the argot of the commercial gamblers are known as 'puts' and 'calls.' Now. what is a 'put' and 'call,' or an option, as defined in thi bill? It is a contract by which a man gi\es to another a sum of money for the pri\ilege of calling upon that mnn to clelh·er property. or for the privilege of deli\ering to him. It is a pnrely unilat­eral contract, by which a mnn gi\es a urn of money for th privilege of delivering or receinng property.

"So far as this contract is concerned. or this so-called con­tract, I haye no word of defense to raise, because it is a contract which engenders no obligation per se. The courts of thi lautl, at least the courts in ruy State, baT"e declared that it i a con­tract without con ideration, which can not be enforced· that it in\Ol\es within its bosom an element of chance which ·make it purely aleatory, and therefore takes it ont of the domain of all those great contracts around which the law throws the shelter of its protection and the instrumentalities for its enforcement.

" The first section rends a follows : "That for the purposes of this act the word 'options' shall be nndet·­

stood to mean any contract or agreement whet·eby a pa1·ty thereto. ot· any party for whom or in whose behalf sucll contt·act Ol' ap:reeme:Jt i. made, acquires the right or privilege. but is not thereby ollligated, to deliver to ·anothf?t' or others, at a future time or wltlliu a de lgnated pet·iod, any of the atticles mentioned in section 3 of this act.

"\\hat does the second se::?tion lll'OYide? Tile second sertion defines futures. 'Vha t does it define futures to be? It defines any contract-to be a futme "·here th one selling at the time of sale is not the actual owner of the protleliy. however real rnny be his intention to deli,er at the tirne tipnlated. anll hon-eYer great may- be his mean _of fulfillment. What el e does it pro­vide? After defining this contract it then goes on to ny that neither the Gowrnment of tlle United State , nor any munici­pality, nor any State, nor any farmer, in so far as lle may hflV<' made a crop or ha\e u crop in process of being rnalle, ~'<hnll bt> brought within the grasp of the provision. The amenllmeut which has been adopted on the motion of the Senator from Minnesota also takes a1l retail dealer out of the l'<'nch of tlle second section.

" Section 2 proT"ides : "SEC. 2. That for the pmpose of this net the word 'futures' hal!

be und{!r tood to mean any contract or agreement whereby a pat·ty eon­tracts or agrees to sell and deliver to another or otller at a futru·e time, o1· within a designated pel'iod, any of the articles mentioned in section 3 of this act, when at the time of making Ruch contl'act · or agreement the pal'ty so contracting Ol' agreeing to ·ell and make such delivery, or the party for wllom be acts as agent, broker, o1· employee in making such contract or · a~reement. is not the owne1· of the article or articles so contmcted o1· agreed to be sold and delivered, or ha not theretofot·e acquired by purchase, and is not then entitled to the right to the future posses ion of such at·ticle or at·ticles under and by vh·tue of a contract or agreement for the sale and future dellve~·y thereof pre­viously made by the owner thereof; Prot'idetl, howe1:er, That no pro­vision or requirement of this act shall apply to any contt·act or agt'N'­ment for the future delivery of any of said articles made for and in behalf of the United States. Ol' of any State, 'l'erritory, county, or municipality, with the duly authorized officers or agent thereof. nor to any contt•act ot· agreement made by any farmer Ol' planter for the sale and delivery at a future time. or within a designated pel'iod, or any of said articles belonging to said farmer or planter at the time oe making such contract or agrt>ement, and which have been grown or produced, or at said time a1·e in actual course of growth or· pt:oductiou, on land owned or occupied by such farmer 01· L1lanter; nor to any con­tract or agreement made with any farmer or planter to furnish and deliver to such farmer or planter at ·a future time, or within a desig­nated period, any of said articles which are l'equired as food, fol'age, or seed -by such fa1:mer or· planter, his tenants, or employees.

"The third section enumerates the article which come under this pron ion. This section, when I come to comment upon it hereafter, I shall show, in my· jndgrnent, repre~'<ent the greate t enormity in the bill.

"SEC. 3. That the articles to which the foregoing sections relate ar raw or· unmanufactured cotton, hops. wheat, co1·n, oats, rye, barley, pork, · lard, and bacon.

"That is the enumeration. The fourth section imposes tnxe. and licenses. It imposes u license of $1,000 nud a tax of ti cent on every pound of raw or unmanufactured cotton, hops. pork, lard, or bn·con, and 20 cents per bushel upon e\'ery bushel of wheat, and so forth. Section 4 is as follows:

"SEC. 4. That special taxes are imposed as follo>>S: Evet·y dealer in 'options' or 'futures' as hereinbefore defined in this act. shall pay annually the sum of . 1,000 as a license fee for conducting snell business. and shall also pay the further· sum of 5 cent per pound fot· each and every pound of raw or unmanufactured cotton. hops. pork, lard. hacon . or other edible product of swine, and tbe sum of 29 cents pe~· hul'lh~l for each and every bushel of any of tbe other artrcle~ mentwned m section 3 of this act, the right or privilege of delivering w-hieb to an­othel' or others at a future time. or within a desiguatl'd per·lod, rna~· he acquired by such dealer in his own llehalf or in behalf or anotb<>t· or others . under any 'options' contmct or agreement ::tl'l defint'(l lly E'C­tion 1 of tlti act, or· undet· an):. ·futures· contract or a~1·eemt'nl a

19'14. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1I49I ilefined In se~tion 1 of this act, or nnlh~r any t~ansfer or assigument of any such • ovtlons ' or • futures • contract or agreement; which said amount or amounts shall be paid to the collector of internal reyenue as hereinbefore provided. and by him accounted for as required m re­spect to other special taxes collected by him. Every person, association, copartnership. or corporation who shall in their own behalf, or as agent, broker. o1· employee of another or others, deal in ' options ' or make any • options · contract or agreement as hereinbefore defined, or make any transfer ot· assignment of any such 'futures' contract or agree­ment. shaU be deemed a dealer in 'options • ; and every person, asso­clation. copartnership, or corporation who shall in their .owp. behalf: or as agent, broker, or employee of another or others, deal m futures or make any 'futures' contr·act or agreement as hereinbefore defined, or make any transfer or assignment of any such 'futures' contract or agreement, shall be deemed a dealer in • futures.'

" The fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, an<l tenth sections provide for the enforcement of these provisions. I shall not stop to read them, but I will incorporate them in my remarks. You can find nowhere in any revenue legislation provisions more inquisitorial, more far-reaching, and more destructive of the liberty of the indi"ddual citizen.

,·, The sections are as follows : "SEC. 5. That every pet·son, association, copartne~-ship, or c01·por?-·

tion engaged in, or proposing to engage in, the busmess of dealer m • ootions • or of dea1er in • futures' as hereinbefore defined shall. before commencing such bosiness or makin"' any such 'options' or 'futures' contract or agreement, or any transfer or assignment of any such con­tract or agreement. make application in writing to the collector of in­ternal revenue for the district in which be or any of them proposes to enga"'e in such business or make such contract or agreement, or make a transfer or an as'signment of any such conti·act or agreement, setting tort!) the name of snch person, association. copartnership, or corpora-

, tion 'place of residence of the applicant, the business to be engag-ed in, where such business is to be carried on, and, in case of an association, copartnership, or corporation, the names and places of residence of the several persons constituting such associatlon, copartnership, or corpora­tion. and shall thereupon pay to such collector, as a license fee for con­ductin"' st1ch business; the sum, aforesaid, of $1.000, and shall also execute and deliver to such collector a bond in the penal sum of $4-0,000, with two or more sureties satisfactory to said collecto1·, conditioned that tile obligor therein shall pay, or cause to be paid, the tax or taxes as herein ·provided, and for the fuLl and faithful compliance, by such ob­ligor with all the requirements of this act; and thereupon the collec­tor s'hall Issue to such applicant a certificate, in such form as the Com­missioner of Internal Revenue sha11 prescribe, that such applicant is authorized, for the period of one year from the date of such certificate and within such district, to be dealer in 'options' and 'futures' and to .make, within such district. 'options ' and • futures' contracts or agreements, as hereinbefore defined.. and transfers and assignments of stlch contracts and agreements, and for the period specified in such (!ertificate the pa1·ty to whom it is issued may conduct and transact the business of dealer as aforesaid. Such certificate may be renewed an­nually upon compliance with the provisions of this act: Providerl, llow­eller That so long as any tax provided in this act shall remain due and unpaid the person, association, copartnership, or corporation from which S.uch tax shall be due shall not, during the time such tax remains due and unpaid,' conduct or tr·ansact the business of a dealer in ' options,'· or conduct or n·ansact the business of a dealer in 'futures,' and every person, association, copartnership, or corporatlpn making, transferring, or assigning ~my such • options ' or ' futures contract or agreement while any tax herein provided shall remain due from · such party shall be subject to the fines and penalties hereina~er provided.

" SEC. 6. That it shall be the .duty of the collectol,' of internal rev­enue to keep in his office a book in which shaH .be registered a copy of ench and every appllcatio·n made to hlm undet· the foregoing sections, and a statement in connection therewith as to whether a certificate has been issued thereon, and for what period, which book or register shall be a public record and be subject to the insp~ction of any and all persons.

"SEC . . 7. That every 'options' or • futures' contract or agreement, as hereinbefore defined, and all transfers or assignments thereof, shall be in writing and signed in duplicate by the parties thereto. and every such • options · contract shall state In explicit terms the time when the right .or p1·ivilege of de1lvering the article or articles therein named shall expire; and every such 'futures' conti·act shall state in explicit terms the day upon which or the last day of the period within which the article or articles therein contracted or agreed to be sold shall be delivered ; and any such contract or a!!reement not including such state­ment and not so made and signed, shall, as between the parties thereto and their respective assigns, be abs!)lutely void.

" SEC. ' 8. Tliat It shall be the duty of every persori, association, co­partnership, or' co1·po1·at1on conducting or transacting the business of a deale1· in options· or • futures.' as defined by this act, and they at·e hereby 1·equh·ed to keep a book in which shall be recor·ded, on the day of its execution, the dat<> of each aud every • options • or 'futures • contract ot· ag1·eement made or entered into, or which may be trans­ferred or assigned, by such pet-son, association, copartnership, or cor­poration in theh· own behalf. or in behalf of another or others, and setting: forth the name and place of business o'f the person, association, copa1·tnershlp. ot· cot·poration ln whose behalf, as vendor, such contract OI' a~'l·eement shall have been made, the name and place of business of

!~i;lf.~!'He 0 ~e~~~~·t~~:d;~s th:n~f~d w~~ ':.~~r:Jn~u~~ ·fg~t~~~tcl~r :rgr:iti'c~~~ which a1·e the sul.Jjeet of, embraced in, or covered by each such contt·act or ngret>rut•nt, the time when th<> right or privilege of delivering such artlt'le o1· a1·tlf'les as are the subject of, embraced in, or covered by any • option~· cont1·nct or Rgt·eement shall expire. and the time when or the desig-n·at<.>d pr·J·iod within which delivery shall be · made of the article Ol' artldt's \\1lir·h a l'f' thP subject of, embraced in, or covered by any 'futures· c·flntt·al'l or n~l·t>ement: and on making a t1·ansfer or assign­meut of nny ·options· or ·futures· contract o1· a.~reement, shall, in adflitinn to the fnct8 o,. Items al>ove mentioned. also record In such book thP nnnw~ nnrl rill<'<'~ uf t·esldence or business of the assignor and a~signee n nil . tht> d:ltP of such tl'llnsfer or assignment ; and such book shall ·at nll .tltn<'8 .hl' s11hj!'ct to Inspection by the collector, deputy col­let-tor, · anc1 ln>')l<'c·t ot• of lnterpal ' revenue, or ·any duly ·authorized · agent of the lnternal-lrl•\·enue Depat·tment, · who may make memoranda or n·anscripts tl..ierefrom.

"SEC. 9. That It shall be the <luty of every person, association, eo­partnership, or corporation, and th<>y are hereby required, on the Tues­day of the week next succeeding the date of the cer.tlficate Issued to them, as hereinbefore provided, and on the Tuesday of each and every week thereafter, to make to the collector of internal revenue for the diStrict in which any • options • or 'futures' contract or agreement shall have been made, transferred, or assigned, by such person, associa­tion, copartnership, or corporation, full and complete return and report, under oath and in such form as the Commissioner of Internal Revenue shall prescribe, of any and all such contracts or agreements made or entered into or transferred or assigned by such person, association, co­partnership, or corporation during the preceding week, together with a statement of the articles embraced in or covered by each such contract or agreement. and the amounts, respectively, o! each such article, and the name or names of the party or parties with whom each such contract or agreement, and any transfer or assignment of any such contract or agreement, shall have been made, and at the same time the party whose duty it shall be to make such return or report shall pay to such collec­tor, upon and for each such contract or agreement which such party shall have so made as vendot·, and upon and for each and every trans­fer or assignment of any such contract or agreement which such party shall have made, as transferrer· or assignor, the amount of tax as spe­cified in section 4 of this act, of 5 cents per pound on each and every pound of cotton, bops, and of pork, lard. bacon, or other edible product of swine, of 20 cents per bllShel on each and every bushel of any of the other articles mentioned in section 3 of this act which are the subject of, embraced in, or cove1·ed by such contracts or ag1·eements, or any of them, for which sums said collector shall give his receipts to the party so paying. And such collector shall, upon the making of such 1·eturn or t•eport, enter in a book to be kept for that purpose the date of each such • options • or ·futures' contract or agreement, o1· transfer Ol' as­signment thereof, included in such return or report. the name, residence, and place of busine~s of each party thereto, and· whether tht>y appear as vendor or vendee, the kind and amount of each article which is the sub­ject of, embraced in, or covered by such contracts or agreements, the amount of tax charged and collected thereon, and the date upon which such ·options • ot· • futurE?s • contJ·act or agreement shall by its exnress terms expire or mature ; which book or register shall be a public recol'd, subject to the inspection of any and all persons. That the person, asso­ciation, copartnership, or corporation making or entering into any · op­tions' or • futures' contract cr agreement, as defined in this net, or making any transfer or assignment of any such contract or agreement, either in their own behalf or in behalf of another or others. shall, upon filing with the collector of internal revenue the return or revort afore­said. in addition to the taxes hereinbefore provided. pay to such collector the sum of $2 as a registry fee for each and every such 'OP.tions · or 'futures • contract or agreement so made. transferred, ot· assigned and included in such return or report. and it shall be the duty of the col­lector of internal revenue, on the fit·st secular day of each calendar month, to make a revort to the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. set­ting forth the number of 'options • and • futures • · contracts and a~ree­ments, as shown by such book, which bad not expired or matured on the last day of the preeeding month, the kind and the amount of the ·articles which are the subject of, embraced in. or covered by such contracts or agreements, and the amount o! taxes levied thereon : and a copy of such report shall be kept in the office of the collector of internal revenue and be subject to the inspection of any and all persons. ·

"SEC. 10. That every person, association. copartnership, or corpora­tion, who shall in their own behalf or in behalf of any other person, association, copartnership, or corporation, make or enter into. as vendor, any 'options· or 'futnres' contract or agreement as defined by this act, or make any transfer or assignment of any such contract or agree­ment, without having a certificate of authority from the collector or internal revenne. as hereinbefore provided. and coverin~ the . time at which such contract or agreement. or such transfer or· assignment shall be made, or who shall fail or 'refuse to keep an.y book or make any record, return, or report hereinbefore required. or tn lieu of any record, return, ·or report he1·einbefore required shall make a false, fraudulent, or partial rec01·J, return, or report, or shall make or enter Into any • options • or • futures • contract or agreement, or make any transfer or assignment of such. in form or manner other than as prescribed by this act, or shaH fail or refuse to pay any -of the taxes rPquired by this act to be paid, or shall in any other respect violate any of the provisions of this act, shall, besides being liable for the amount of the tax or taxes prescribed in this act, for each and every such offense pay a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $20,000, or be impriSoned not less than 6 months nor more than 10 years, or be subject to both such fine and imprisonment. ,

"SEc. 11. That neither the payment of the taxes hereinbefore pro­vided nor the certificate issued by the collector of internal revenue un­der this act shall be held to exempt any person, association, copartner­ship, or corporation from any penalty or punisbment now or het'Pafter p1·ovlded by the laws of any State or Territory for making, transfe1·ring, or assigning contracts or agreements such as are hereinbefore defined as 'options • or 'futures • contracts or agreements, or in any manner to authorize the making, transferring, or assigning of such contracts or agreements within any State, Territory, ot· locality contrary to the laws of such State, Territory, <Jr locality; nor shall the payment of the taxes imposed by this act be held to prohibit any State, Territory, or municipality from placing a tax or duty on the same trade, transaction, or business for State, Territorial, municipal, or other purposes.

" The twelfth section, which the Senn tor from Minnesota bas moved this morning to strike out. imposed a liceuse upon every roan doing the business which the proposed statute itself de­clared to be lawful. In other words, it brought e,·ery citizen making a contract for future delivery not embraced in the pro­•isions of the proposed statute under the reach and grusp of the officers of the Go\ernment: The twelfth section is as fol­lows:

" SEC. lZ. That every person, association, copartnet·sbip. ot• corpoi':J.­tlon who shall make any contract or agreement for the sale of any or the articles mentioned in section 3 of this act and requil·in~ the delivery of such article subsequent to the date on which such contract or agt·ee­ment is made, and who, at the time of making thereof, i~ the owner nnd entitled to the possession of the article o1· articles whkh are the

h~~j~~e~~~olo~~r=~~gl~~ %~ ~~';~1b~se~Ya~~;batc~g~r~f~p01~fn~~·~~~~:l~n~ug~ contract or agreement, is entitled to tile right to the futme possession

11492 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSEt JULY 1,

of such article or articles under and by virtue of a contract or agree­ment for the sale and future delivery thereof previously made by the owner thereof, shall, before making any such contract or agreement, or any transfer or assignment of any such contract .or agreement, apply in writing to the collector of internal revenue for the district in which such person, association, copartnership, or corporation shall reside or have a place of busine s, setting forth the same facts as mentioned and required in the application referred to anu provided for in section 5 of this act, and shall thereupon pay to such collector the sum of $2 as a license fee for making. transferring, o1· assigning, or for conduct­ing the business of making, tr·ansferring. and assigning such contracts or agreements, and therenpon the collector shall issue tQ such applicant a certificate, in such form as the Commissioner of Internal Revenue shall prescribe, that such applicant is authorized, for the period of one yea1· from the date of such certificate, to make, transfer, and assign contracts or agreements for the sale and subsequent delivery of any of the articles mentioned in section 3 of this act, of which such licensee at the time of making any such contract or agreement is the owner, or is then entitled to the future possession of under and by virtue of a contract or ag1·eement for the sale and futm·e delive1·y of such article or ar·ticles previously made by the owner thereof. And any person, as­sociation, copartnership, or corporation who shall make. transfer, or assign any such contract or agreement without having paid the license f ee herein required,. and without having a certificate from the collector of internal revenue authorizing the making, transferring. and assigning of such contracts and a~reements. shall be subject to and be required to pay a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than ~ 3,000. Such certifi­cate may be renewed annually on compliance with the provisions of this section. And such licensee shall keep a book in which shall be entered the date ot, the names and places of residence or business of tlie parties to, the kind and amount of the articles the subject of, em­braced in, or covered by any contracts or agreements for sale and future delivery whl~h may be made, transferred, or assigned by such licensee under autbo'i:ity of the certificate provided for in this section. and the time at which delivery thereof is to be madt! ; and in case of the tt·ans­fer or assignment of contracts or agreements fot· sale and future de­livery of any of said articles previously made by the owner thereof, or made by a party who has theretofore acquired by purchase and at the time of making such transfer or assignment is entitled to the right of the future possession of such article or articles under and by virtue of a contract or agreement for the sale and future delivery thereof, previously made by the owner thereof, the names and places of business or residence of transferer and transferee or of the assignor and assignee ; which book shall at all times be subject to inspection by the collector or deputy collector of internal revenue, or by any duly authorized agent of the Internal-Revenue Department. Such licensee shall also make on Tuesday of each and every week, to the collector of internal reve­nue bv whom the certificate herein pro\'ided for may have been issued, a weekly repot·t of. all such contracts or agreements or transfers or assignments thereof that shall have been made by such licensee during the p1·evious week, which report shall contain all the facts and items herembefore required to be entered in the book to be kept by such licensee; and such report shall be entered by said collector in a book to be kept by him in his office for that purpose. And any such licensee who shall fail or refuse to l•eep ·the book and enter therein the fact and items as by this section required, or shall fail o1· refuse to submit such book to the inspection of the collector, deputy collector, or duly authorized agent of the Internal-llevenue Department, or who shall fail or refuse to make report to the collector of internal revenue as by this section required, shall for each and every such failm·e or refusal be required to pay to such collector a fine of not less than $100 nor more than 5,000. And it shall be the duty of the collector of internal reve­nue to keep in his office a book in which shall be registered a copy of each and evet·y application made to him under this section, and a state­ment in connection therewith as to whether a certificate has been issued and for what period, which book or register shall be a public record, and be subject to the inspection of ~Y and all persons.

"The thirteenth section provides inquisitoi·ial means of visit­ation and search and examination of books. It provides that the internal-revenue collector shall have the power·, whenever he suspects that a business n1an is violating this statute, to demand an examination of his busine sand an inspection of his books for the purpose of satisfying himself that the law is being carried out. . "I call the attention of Senators to the fact that the thir­

teenth section is as broad as any man's right to sell any property for future delivery, whether or not that property is brought ,-vithin the grasp of futures and options as defined in the bill.

"Now, the distinguished Senator this morning does what? On a motion made to sh·ike out the twelfth and thirteenth sec­tions he says he will agree that the twelfth section shall be stricken out, but he objects to the thirteenth seCtion being stricken out. He strikes out the only possible reason for the powers of search and visitation found in the thirteenth section. He strikes out the license provided in the twelfth section, by l\-'hich alone the thirteenth section could be justified, and he keeps vested in the officers of the Government the arbitrary powers created by the thirteenth section, and which the bill Hself admits are to be exercised against a man pursuing an avocation which the bill itself recogriizes as legal and thus should be removed from inquisition . . ''The following sections of the bill are· full of other penalties.

Let us stop for a moment and ask ourselves· the question, what the bill does?

"1\Ir. President, there can not be any question that the con­tract which the bilf strikes at in its second section is a ' lawful conh·act. That is remoYed beyond the domain of controYersy. The question whether !:!ontracts for future delivery are· \alid contracts ha.s been before every court in this land. It hiJ.s. been · to the Supreme C?ourt of the United States; it h~s been ~o the

courts of last resort of almost e-rery State in ·.thi-s Union, and it has been crystallized in a body of jurisprudence now pas::;ed beyond question that it is absolutely as lawful for a man to sell for future delivery as it is to sell for present deli-rery; thaf there is no earthly difference between the two ; that they are both valid contracts protected by the law, enforced by the courts, proYided only what? Provided only that either of the partie to the contract has an honest intention to deli-rel'.

"The purpose, then, of this bill is to strike uown contracts which can be validly entered into, protected by the judgments of the courts of last resort of all this Union. I chn1lenge any Sen­ator upon this floor to produce a single modern authority which does not recognize that the rigllt to mnke these contracts under the dominion and jurisdiction of the Stnte courts is ns absolutelv sacred and as well protected by the ::egis of the State law as Ill · right to hold his home, or any other right that he has within the dominion of the State. ·

"This, then, is a proposition that the Federal GoYernment­and, ~Ir. President. I hate to reargue tllis question with tlle eloquent and able, vigorous and incisive argument anu denuncia­tion of the Senator from l\Iissouri [l\1r. Vest] on yesterday ring­ing in the ears-this, then, is a bill licensing the Federal Gov­ernment to step over the State line and destroy any contract made within a State between citizens of the State whlcll tll Federal Government may choose to destroy. '.rhat is the power which this bill asserts. If it does not assert that power it does not assert any power.

"Is it denied that these are -ralid contracts? Is it denied that they are contracts made under the State law and under flrotec­tion of the State courts? Is it denied that this bill strikes at contracts between citizens of the State and a res or a thing witllin that Stnte? That being the case, I ask Senators, mindful of their great oath to support the Constitution of tile · -nited States, where within the four walls of that Constitution can they find a pretext for this great usurpation of authority? I£ the theory which this bill propounds is true, eyery -restige of State autonomy has been wiped off, and to-day, instead of haying a go-rernment of limited and restrictive powers, each goyernruent moving by the fore~ of constitutional grayity in its own orbit, we stand the most unlimited and arbitrary goyernment on the face · of God's earth.

"Now, how will Senators justify this measure? I put it to e\ery Senator, does this power exist in the Federal Goyernment? I challenge any Senator to say that be belie-res the power exist in the !!'edernl GoYernment to go into a State and destroy. con­tracts made between citizens of the State protected by Stn te laws, contracts outside of the domain of Federal jurisdiction. Can the Federal GoYernment regulate mnrriage; can it regulnte diyorce; can it determine the title to property; can it pass upon the tenure by will ; can it usurp all the functions reserved to the States as a necessary part of the existence of the State govern­ments? If it can not do these things, by what mandate of au­thority can this proposed law be put upon the statute books.

"Ah, but I am told that this is a taxing law; that it is an ex­ercise of the taxing power. It is a tax that does not tax. I call attention to this distinction. On the very face of the bill not even a pretext of taxation can be found. By ~e very terms of the bill no tax can result from its provisions. The only section in the bill which could possibly lead to the collection of. a tax and give even a semblance of constitutionality to the bill was the twelfth section, which imposed the $2 license upon a lawful busi­ness; and the Senator from 1\Iinnesota proposes to take that out. , " Now; then, the question results and comes down to this, . and

we must meet it: Can the Federal Government by the abuse of the taxing power abrogate and destroy every limitation found in the Constitution and every reservation in favor of the States·? That is the question . . It can not be evaded.

"Ah, but it is said this is an exercise of the taxing power, and although it is an exercise of the taxing power which does not tax to produce revenue, we will declare in this bill that we pro­pose to tax for reve,nue, although we qo not propose to do so. If we do violate the Constitution in doing this, when it goes to the court of last resort it wi)l not be able to d~cipher the false pur­pose of the bill and will therefore hold the bill not to be uncon­stitutional. Why wm the court hold it not to , be unconstitu­tional? Not because it is not unconstitutional, but because we have breathed into this law a Jiying li~, because we haYe de­clat·ed . that our .purpose is. to tax .for reyenue, when .every line and letter of the bill says the bill is not an exercise of the taxing po.wer. at al~ b~t al} attemp~ t() . destroy the yery framework or the Constitution by going into the States and doing that which the Federal Government confessedly has no power to do. ,

"Mr_ Pres~qent, s_ome. qQestion was rnis.ed y~$terday .ns t~ tlll:' power of the court to reach this bill ... That. que tion does not

1914. · .·CONGR.ESSIONAL RE-CORD-HOUSE. .11493 concern me when 1 exercise my right to vote· upon this floor. If · "The purpose of -this argument is this: This uill, which de­it be true that under the Constitution there has been lodged in stroys all the rights of the States and acts internally upou the the Senate a power by a declaration of purpose to preyent un- people of the State and on contracts protected by State laws constitutional enactments from being reached by the courts, then must be Yalid, and you must hold it so or you must declare that the necessary effect of the Constitution is to ha-ve made this Sen- the whole policy of th~ Republican Party is and has been wrong. ate the court of last resort, rind we stand here now called upon, "l\Ir. President, in my judgment that is absolutely and funcla­with the great responsibility which rests upon us, not to say mentally a fal1acy. It overlooks the clear distinction between what a tribunal would say if the power had been lodged with it, t~e nature of the power lodged in the Federal Government for but to say what this great tribunal should say in the face of the rmrpose of imposts and the nature of the taxing power lodged this patent and glaring and flagrantly unconstitutional act. in the Federal Government for the purpose of internal taxation .

. "But I do not follow and agree with the admissions on this When the Federal GoYernment deals with imposts the Con~ti­subject made by the distinguished Senator from Missouri yes- tution has Yested in it the power which would be vested in any terday. I do not agree to them because I believe the premise Government in that regard. upon which they are founded is destructive of this Government. "No power as to imposts was resened in the States hy the The glory and the ornament of our system which distinguishes Federal Constitution. All the lawful powers of government it from every other Go-vernment on the face of the earth is that which could be exercised in that particular passed into the life there is a great and ·mighty power hov~ring oyer the Constitu- and being of the Federal Goyernment by the lodgment h1 that tion of the land to which has been delegated the awful responsi- GoYernment of the power to levy imposts-imposts deal ·ex­bility of restraining all the coordinate departments of. the Gov- ternally, beyond our borders. Beyond those borders the power emment within the walls of that great fabric which our fathers of the Federal Go-vernment was restricted aJid re.strain~d by no builded for our protection and our immunity forever. limitation resulting from a reservation in the Constitution.

"It is perfectly true that in two or three cases the Supreme ".Mr: President, in my judgment, if complaint is made of im-Court of the United States haYe said that where on the face of a post tax by the ]federal Government -levied not for ·the purpose stah1te there was the exercise of taxation, as the statute on its . of reyenue, but for protection ·or prohibition, the complaint is face was a taxing statute, the court would not destroy the face not that the Federal Government violates the Constitution ·or the of the st~tute by wiping out the taxing provision in the statute Jimitations of the Constitution, because as to that all authority with the sponge of the motiYes which may have actuated the is granted by the-Constitution. When I say this, I mean no limi­Members who passed it. Is that the case here? ."Where the face tation by the· Constitution by express provision of the Constitn­of the statute shows no tax, where the face of the statute itself tion. The complaint of undue or prohibitory external imposts eliminates all human possibility of the exercise of the taxing is not that the Constitution has been violated. power for revenue, then I say the mission of jurisdiction is given "No; but that there has been a violation of the great funda­to the courts of this land to brush that statute away for its fla- mental and elementa1;y principle of all government, which nuder­grant and open violation of the Constitution. Is this not neces- lies all constitutions, which affect this Government and every sarily true? goyernment, and which would affect the most .unlimited govern-

" Now, let us reason out the consequences, if it be not true. If ment in the world. These principles are that governmen,t is this be not true, then the beautiful system by which, as I said created with limitations flowing from the nature of its being, just now, all the departments of the Government moye in a com- which teach that no· government shall use its power for the bene­moo orbit, vanishes out of the sideral universe of government. fit of the few to the detriment of the many. Therefore, all the and passes into confusion and chaos. The precedents are against arguments which have been made on the subject of the abuse of it. The power which the Supreme Court of the United States the impost power in the Federal Government are arguments ad­exercises in the review of statutes is like unto the power exe.r- dressing themsel>es not to the limit of delegation under the rised by the supreme courts of all the States. The books are Constitution as to .imposts, but to the want of power arising full of cases in the State courts drawing the distinction which from the very nature of government itself. I have made. In the Topeka case it is drawn in plain words "In other words, I contend that where power to destroy exists by the Supreme Court of the United States. There a Gov- the use of a wrong instrumentality to do the destruction may ernment appropriated a sum of money, declaring it to be for be the abuse of ·an instrumentality but not an abuse of po~er, a public purpose. The case went to the Supreme Court of the because the power to destroy is Yes_ted. But where the power to United States, and it said your motiYe and your purpose can not destroy does .not exist, the use of an instrumentality to destroy be inquired into. That is remoYed beyond the domain of con- that which there is no power to destroy is not alone an abuso of troversy or question. But where yon haye called the statntf' the instrumentality but an usurpation of powe1~ itself. Now, the one thing and in the very terms of the statutes indicate another usurpation of power by Congress not vested by the Constitution t.hiug, and that ether thing is outside of the powers of Go>ern- in Congress is unconstitutioual, T!Qs being true, it follows that ment, then it is not a statute at all, but it is a violation of au- if the usurpation is clear on the face of the act, if the act itself thority and we strike it from the statute books. shows the usurpation, the power exists in the Supreme Court of

"That, in my opinion, is what should be the fate of this meas- the United States to prevent the usurpation. ure. The only semblance of authority within the Constitution, · "The distinguished Senator made two quotations on this sub­as I have said, was the twelfth section, which put a license of ject. Both of them draw this distinction in the broadest way. $2 upon a business admittedly lawful, which the Senator from One quotation is from Judge Cooley, and the other is from Judge Minnesota proposes this morning to strike out. Climbing up this Story. Both of them call attention to the fact that when it ron­lofty tree under which he thinks all the great commerce of this cerns import tax the question is as to the fairness and the right­country is to find shade and shelter, and under which I think ness, if I may use the word, and not as to the question of con­death and destruction, like a upas, is to come, he saws himself stitutional power: down by cutti~g off the only possibility of constitutiollality "Indeed, in some cases where impost duties are laid, revenue is no which was in the bill. part whatever of the motive for imposing a particular duty, but it -is · "What does the Senator from Minnesota say? I wish to call made so Wgh that it is expected to preclude all importation, and there-t t . t •t Of yth" I · "th th fore produce no revenue. A person objecting to the duty may complain a ten IOD o I · course, ever mg say IS WI e greatest that it violates the true principles of government, but he would hardly

respect and kindness to him. I suppose, when he made the ar- venture to attack it as being so distinctly beyond the constitutional gument which I shall quote in a few moments, he thought it powel' of Congn'ss that in the courts it might be assailed as wanting would rally all the Senators ·on the other side of the Chamber In legal validity. He may question its policy, but he can not well ques-and make them feel that they could not question the constitu- tion its constitutionality. tionality of this bill without questioning the constitutionality " Says Justice Story: of that system of taxation which they have espoused almost "It is often applied as a virtual prohibition upon the importation of from the foundation of the Government, and which they espouse particular articles for the encouragement and protection of domestic now to an extreme degree, how extreme I will not comment upon, products and industry. because I do not propose to enter into that question. · ;What does "These are the doctrines, 1\lr. President, which have been ap-the distinguished Senator urge? He says: plied by this Government, standing with its face looking beyond

" One thing is perfectly clear to me, that if this bill is unconstitu- our borders at the millions lying beyond. But · when turned in-tional for the reason that we have no right to use the taxing nower. d b h ld h t f St t "th 11 h t · bt except for the purpose of raising revenue, then there bas never been a \Yar we e o t e sys em o a es Wl a t e grea- rig s Republican protective tariff but that bas been in violation of the Con- resened to them by the Constitution. We see them with their stitution. A duty may be so high, pl:.w!d with a view of protecting "some police power, and their legal autonomy, and their right of con-~~dd~~lo~u~~fu~~~ vgl~t>~i~t~~.J.n~l~e;~i~lo~~ r;i~ulf\~fs i~~tmfn~~e~o~~l~ee. ti-nct, and their right of property, and e>erything that has been

· purpose of raising revenue. it would still be obnoxious to this construe- . l)l'eserYed to us by the Constitution. These rights and their tlon of the Constitution. But there are numerous casces wllere this duty recognition nnd presen-ation have giYen us a hundred or more is absolutely probibitot·:r, and so 1ntended, and so made fot· the express · h h It d · pmpose of suppt·essing the importation of articles that come in com- years of being, and w1t out t em war and tumu an m1sery petHion with those produced in this country. and suffering \VOuld come. The rudiment of all these rights is

'

11494 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE~ JULY 1,

foun<l in the principie that every power not' delegated under the Constitution to the Federal Government is reserved to the States. Yes; the distinguished Senator, in looking at this bill, puts on his marine glasses, and turning to the American people propose~ to put upon the great sisterhood of States the shackles of the foreign jurisdiction. He does this, although his bill deals not with that which is foreign, but with all those great rights of local self-government which are· ours, ours to-day and to-morrow and forever. .

" I doubt \ery much whether this argument will reach the rustinguished Senator from Minnesota, because in the course of his able speech he says:

. "The Constitution, wbicb at its adoption was supposed to bn¥e in vww some 1·eference, at least. to tbe ·general welfare' of tile people, is now almost invariably invoked by eonstltutionul pngillsts to resist ~11 reforms and all attempts directed against wrong and abuse.

. "I can well imagine thnt the distinguished Senator must have been in the frame of mind which this language. indicates, when his hand could ha\e the strength to write or his mind the power to conceive thn t there exists in the Federal Government any power to go into your State. sir [pointing to the Senntor from l\fissouri], or the State of . Maine. or any other State in this Union and destroy by a. surreptitious attempt to pervert the taxing power. the rights of the citizens of the States to contract among themselves.

"I know. therefore. that the frame of mind I am in and the f-rame of mind the distinguished Senator is in are so wide apart. thnt we mo\e in such different conceptions of the respective relations of these (;()v-ernments to each other. that I am afraid I will ne,er be able to reach him by argument.

· "Mr. President, I think we ought to be entitled to discu s this measure without neer, without gibe, without reaching ont th·~ h11nd to stir op-I was going to say the smoldering ashes of pn.sr C(mflicts; but, thank God, e\en tbe ashes of that conflict haH' }iassed swa.y; I know the American people have forgotten it, ex­cept for the lessons which it has taught us an, that within thf­w-aHs of the Constitution and by adherence and respect for it. united in a common brotherhood lie alone our future hope <'f happiness and protection.

"~.rhe distingui bed Senator says: "It is !:'eriously to be regretted that some of our ' constitutional

friends ' did not regard this sacred Instrument with as much reverenee and stand ready to guard it with the same pathetic solicitude in a time not very remote as they do at present.

" Thus the disco sion of this antioption bill is to revive the fee1ings of the war, and sneer and gibe are cast a.t this side of the Chamber because there are those here who adhere now tt) those great principles of constitutional government which th'O'y think involve the very structure of the Constitution. The germo, of the fierce Civil War through which we passed were sown at the birth of our institutions. Both sides in that awful conilict were true to the Constitution as they understood it.

"Mr. President, the men who took part in the war on the south­ern side were not like the Senator from Minnesota-careless of constitutional obligations. Whatever may be the conception as to the mistake of their opinions-and we all concede that the mighty arbitrament of war has decided they were wrong-no one ln this day or any day hereafter, whatever may be the censure which be puts upon the judgment of the southern people. ques­tions the sincerity of their convictions or their great purpose to adhere to the Constitution as they understood iJ:. Their bloo1 'sealed their fidelity to their duty as they conceived it. i have ·seen somewhere a thought of the great war governor of Massa­chusetts, saying that whate\er might be the judgment of history upon the wisdom of the southern people, history would hold that, mistaken as they were, they were heroes because of their devo­tion to their constitutional mistake.

"I believe now, sir that as time goes by the world will see their magnificent heroism more and more, and that the TI.sion of the southern poet will be fulfilled:

" In S('eds of laurel in the earth, 'l'be blossom of their fame is blown;

And somewhere. waiting for its birth, The shaft is in the stone.

" But, Mr. President, the view of the Constitution which the other side upholds is, I suggest, a J•eflection on that magnificent and gallant body of men who formed the Union hosts of thtg country. What did they fight for? What did they die ·for? For what was their blood poured out in priceless enrrents? lt we believe the con equences of the argument of the dtstinguish~d SeDRtor from Minnesota, it was poured out in o1·der that we might ha\e no Government, no States, no autonomy, and that our Constitution might be destroyed.

"I s~ould rather not pass tlie judgn]ent upon tbo8e gaJJant men which the argument of the Senator :trom l\IInnesota does. I should _rather rely upon the judgment of the immorbrl Lincoh1, who sa1d at Gettysburg, in that speech which will carry his fame down to the uttermost end of time,' They died in order that this Government might ~ive.' Lire bow? Li,e, as the argument of th_e Senator from Umne ota would hold, without restrietion ancl With?ut restraint .of any. kind, with the States destroyed, with a11 .rights gone, with a mighty despotism buHt up, and that des­potism. all the mo1·e flagrant and all the mo:;:-e outrageous be­cau_se It would depend solely upon popular clamor or popular "\\J;t;im as to f?e existence or nonexistence of an evil. ·

··.Mr. ~res1den~ there can not be any doubt as to the uuconsti­tutlona1Jty of this measure. The distinguished Senator from Or~gon [l\fr . .Mitchell] yesterday asked llpon this floor my very pob~ed and eloquent friend, the Senator from Virginia [.Mr. DameiJ, whether he thought the courts would declare this biU uncons~tutionaJ. I should like to ask the Senator from Oregon a question_. tn:oug~ the Chair, now: if he will p~rmit me. auu tJ.;tat quest10~ IS ~Is: Does the Senator from Oregon think tbis bill. has for JtS ObJeCt the lawful and legitimate exercise of the ta.xmg power?

"Mr. MITCHELL. I am bound to take the bill .for what it pnr­ports .to be. I have seen no reason to inquire of those gentlemen who mtroduced the bill, or of the committee that reporte<I it, whether ther~ is anything about it that does not appear on the fnc~ of the b1l1;. and I ha >e no doubt the Supreme Comt of th~ Ulllted States WI]] hold the very same \iew if it should ever oe. come a. law and go before that tribunal for construction

"Mr .. W~ITE. Will ~e Se~ator vote for a provision de~laring t~at. this b1l1 has for Its obJect the destruction alld prevention w1thm the States of the things contemplated as declared by the Senator· ft·oru l\Iinnesota?

•• Air. ~fiTCHELL No, sir. :· M~·· WmTE. Will the Senator's vote, "yea" or "nay, .. on

this b1ll be controlled by the fact that it will accomplish that purpose? ·

"Mr. MITCHELL. At present, Mr. President. I do not exactly see that I am on the witness stand to be catechised. ·

"Mr. WHITE. I beg the Senator's pardon. "Mr. President, I put these questions becnuse when the SPna­

tor asked the question on yesterday. to me they indicated a depth of political degeneration--of cour e I do not S.'ly this with refer­ence to t~e learne~ ~enator of Oregon-but I mean of political gegeneration of opmwn abstractly which can be successfully de­fended nowhere.

" Who shall say that if this bill is not really a revenue bill and we decl?re it to be so we will not be .concealing our purpose and e.xpressmg a fraudulent purpose?

"There bas been some question raised about the case of Veazie against ~enno, as bearing upon this issue. It is &1id, Why, did Y?U not.rmpose a ~ax of 10 per cent upon State banks upon their circulation, and did not the Supreme Com·t declare that valid? That case is cited as authority now. It is always the wuy. It has been that way since the foundation of the Government. If ever a decision is made in any way looking toward the destruc­tion of the lawful powers of the States, arguments ha...-e always come up to pervert, to extend. to vitiate. and to amplify in order that there may be authority for a stretch of power and thus take some further liberty from the people. Now, what wa the Veazie against Fenno case?

" I .know nothing which can throw more light upon a case lhan the brief of counsel. In the discussion of that case there was no statement by counsel that the question involved was the perver­sion of the taxing power. The attack made upon the statute was this: That this statute was unconstitutional because it taxed a State corporation.

"When that went to the court what did it say? The Constitu­tion has lodged in Congress the power to regulate currency. In the exercise of that power Congress has authority to wipe out a State corporation by taxation. True the court, arguendo, said that it was either a tax or a prohibition. If a prohibition, the constitutional authority lying back of the statute was fonnd­where1 In the clause delegating to Congress the power to reg­ulate the currency. If a tax, it was not illegal, becnuse Con­gress had the power to use the taxing power to prohibit that which it had the right to prohibit under another provision of the Constitution. ·

" The case does not cover the question now here. It does ~ot intimate the power to surreptit?ously use the taxing power' which is here presented. It is true the c~urt, arguendo by the Chie.f Justice, made use of expressions which may be misconstrued and which are now used to support the· contention that COngress has,

.. I

191-!. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 11~19t)

by pretending to tax, the po'ler to de..)troy e\ery limitation found in the Constitution. This case does not so decide. It seems to me that ends this contention. ·

"This brings me to the oleomargarine bill. This was the situ­ation at that time, r.nd I call attention to it: The statute as originally introduced contained a prohibitive tax. Although there was :m enormous pressure for its passage, some .of the gen­tlemen who were called upon to support it and whose constitu­tional stomachs were not so weakened and enfeebled could not digest it. What did they do? They reduced the tax down witllin a re\enue-producing capacity. That statute recognized the distinction which I made just now oet'leen the power of the Government to exercise internal and external taxes, the differ­ence between imposts and internal taxation, since, although in that act they made the impost tax absolutely prohibitive, they reduced the internal to a re\enue basis on its face in order to make it constitutional.

"This, tl:ien, was a case where motive might depri•e the court of the po'ler to examine into the constitutionality of the statute because on the face of the statute it was the exercise of a rev­enue power. I admit that.

" :Mr. MITCHELL. Does tlle Senator think that ri. reduction of tile tax in tllis case to such a figure that it would admittedly be the means of raising revenue, and under which parties en­gaged in these transactions would go on, would render this bill constitutional?

" l\Ir. Wnrm. Does the Senator mean leaving in tlle $2 tax? "::.\Ir. 1\IrrcHELL. No, sir. The point is this: Suppose the tax

were reduced to a re\enue basis so· that tlle tax would be paid, in which e\ent it 'l'Ould clearly be a revenue bill according to the ideas of the Senator from Louisiana.

' Mr. WHITE. Oh, I must beg the Senator's pardon. The Sen­a tor rnu~t understand the distinction. I am speaking now of the power of the court on the face of the bill. The bill might, on its f<lce. be a revenue bill, and might to me be cpnstitutional. But in tile exercise of my function llere I would not vote for any bill jf it raised a fraudulent revenue, pro\ided I thought it was in­tended to prohibit.

'' ~Ir. 1\I!TCHT:.LL. I tmderstood the Senator to say tilat be­cnnse the tax was reduced so that it was for revenue on its face tlw t enabled the court to declare that it was constitutional.

":Mr. 'WHITE. I say that would ha>e enabled the court. and it enabled the President to not •eto it, because, 1\lr. President, it is perfectly self-e\ident when a bill which is a revenue bill comes to me for consideration as to whether I 'lill >ote for it or not, it may be to m·e-if I may be allowed to use the word, a philo­sophical 'lord-subjectively unconstitutional, not unconstitu­tional per se, and I may not vote for it as constitutional, because I know that although it is a re>enue bilJ, there is a purpose of destruction and prohibition contained in it. But when it comes to the court, the court can only look at it objectively. The court must look at its provi~ions. and if on its face it is a re>e­uue bill, if on its face it be for the purpose of raising reyenue, the court will say that it cnn not consider the motive, but must decree its enforcement.

"Yet where on its >ery face it is not a reTenue bill, then m·en objectively to a court it is unconstitutional, and the court, in my judgment, doing its great duty, will stamp upon it the brand of unconstitutionality. I think the distinction is very clearly drawn in the message of Mr. Cle•eland in which he announced his signature to the oleomargarine bill:

" It has been urged as an objection to this measure that while pur­porting to be legislation for revenue, its real purpose is to destroy, by use of the taxing pow.er, one indu tt·y of our people for the pt·otectiou and benefit of another.

" If entitled to indulge in such a suspicion as a basis of official action in this case-

"Now, here are the two' ease , one 'if entitled to indulge in such a suspicion,' and what? and if entit·ely. satisfied that the consequences indicated would ensue, I should doubtless feel constrained to interpose Executive dissent.

-"That is the illustration. That is the object lesson, for objec­tively when this st~tute came to him within its four .walls there was a revenue created, and he, in the exercise of his Executi•e power and . Executive prerogative, did not come down and go into the hearts of men and do that thing which God alone can do, search out the understandings of men and know their wicked purposes. He took the object as it came to him and pnssed upon it as such, but he was careful to say in this message that jf that bill had not presented that aspect to him, he would have been constrained to exercise the Executive veto.

" I hold in my hand, which I will print as a part of my re­marks, tlle re\enue collected from the oleomargarine tax.

Statement ,,howing wtal receipts from all oleomargarine sources for each fiscal year from ?rTovember 1, 1886, tile dale the oleomargarine law tool; tfftct, to June 90, 1891, inclusive.

Eight months Fiscal year Fiscal yelr ended

Fiscal year ended

Fiscal year -~ggregate re-ended ended ended Oleomargarine.

June 30, 1887. Jtme 30, 1888. June 30, 1889. June 30, 1890. June 30, 1891. ceipts.

Oleomar,g:arine, domestic an~ impor~d .....•.................•......... $435,924.04 $653,355.10 $677,302.40 12,400.00

$(i19,20p. 72 11,700.00

$871,488.44 . .................... Manufacturers of oleomargarme (spec tal tax) .......•••••..••........•••• 31,700.00 17,150.00 6, 950.00 ......................

123,258.54 130,631.51 Retail dealers in oleomargarine (special tax) .....•••••••.••..••.•..•.••. 154,924.00 100,008.00 146,293.70 .. .......... - .. ~ .... -. Wholesale dealers in oleomargarine (special tax) .....•..•......•..•...•. 101,400.00 70,376.24 73,914.00 55,318. {)() 53,192.00 ....................

Total. .........................................•.................. 723,948. 04 1 864,139.88 894,247.91 786, 291. 72 1 1,0i7,924.14 $4,346,551.69

"The aggregate receipts have been $4,346,000, and the revenue has been increasing day by day and year by year. Will anybody say that that statute is on all fours with this? Will anybody hold that a bill which has raised more than four millions of rev­enue and where the revenue has been accumulating year by year' is like unto a bill which witilin its necessary intendment aml 'on the \ery face of the statute not only is not intended to raise revenue but, on the contrary, can not under its terms raise a dollar of revenue?

·• Thet·e are gentlemen upon this floor, my peers in everything, my peers in heart, and my superiors in head, who have said to me that they could not see the distinction between those two statutes.

" Ir. l\1ITCHELL. Will the Senator nllow me? "Mr. WnrTE. Certainly; with pleasure. "1\lr. MITCHELL. I understand the "Senator concedes that that

bill was constitutional. " Mr. WHITE. As regards the President, when it came to him. " 1\lr. MITCHELL. Just as well as when it was before the Sen­

ate. " Mr. WHITE. I never conceded that; on the contrary, I dis­

claimed it. •· l\Ir. 1\fiTCHELL. But as it came to the President? " l\Ir. WHITE. I say that it was constitutional, objectively,

when it went to the President. It was unconstitutional, sub­jectively, as it was passed upon by the Senate. · That is what I say, and my words can not be distorted. If the difference be­tween object nnd subject do not present themsel\es to the Sen­at• r's mind, if tlle darkness of night and the light of day do not

penetrate his mimi, I must ask for some greater power of ex­planation than I ha>e.

" Ir. l\IITCHELL. :i\1y perceptions may be somewhat obtuse. so far as that is concerned, but I wish to understand the Senator, if it does take a long time to get at precisely what he is driYing at. I confess I am a little confused, although I am very much interested in his \ery able and interesting ru·gument.

"The Senator concedes that the oleomargarine bill after it came from tile President was a constitutional act; that act was constitutional because not onJy on its face but the very purpose of it, considered from e>ery and any standpoint, was to raise revenue, as I understand the Senator.

"Suppose the tax provided for in the pending bill was reduced to 5 cents, instead of being at $2; suppo e the tax were reduced to a sum where all would admit that revenue would be raised to a point where under the law parties would go on and make these contracts and pay the tax. Now, the Senator wlll admit, so far as that particular aspect of the case is concerned, it would be a proper exercise of the taxing power.

"Mr. WHITE. I beg the Senator's pardon--" 1\Ir. MITCHELL. One moment. So far as that particular

aspect of the case is conc.erned, I suppose the Senator will con­cede that that would be a proper exercise of the taxing power; but whether the object to which it is applied is a 1>roper one is perhaps a different question. The object to which the tax was applied in the oleomargarine act was a representation of butter, but in this case it is proposed to be applied to certain contractR.

"Now, I understand the Senator's first objection to this bill ia that it contemplates invoking the taxing 110\Yel' when the real

CONGRESSIONAL· RECORD~HOUSE. JULY 1,

plll'pose is ~ot to raise revenue, lrnt to crush out certain things f very much g1·aver cllara.ctc.r of gambling Ulan selling lottery I understand that is the. first ohjection of the Senator. But sup- tickets2 . pose tllat was avoided in the way I have suggested, then is the "Mr. WnrrE. In the comment I made upon the excerpts from oth.eL' ::rn.d .tbe only objection that the Seu:J.tor has- to this ~n Judge Cooley, to which the distinguished Se11ator referred. I con­that it interferes. with what he regards as valid contracts be- fined my elf solely to the quotation made, and I read that quota­t~een parties in a State? Is that it? tion. That quotation refers to imposts, and therefore I discussetl

" Mr. WmTE. .Mr. President I have entlea~oretl to make my- the particular. question. I can not discuss here all the opinions of self reasonably clarr. Wlillt I' say is this, that if a bill actually ~udge C-ooley in a magazin': ~·tiel~, upon every c?nceivable ques­mises revenue and is- pre ·ented to my mind, in the- exercise of my t10n. t;mt I m!ly say to the dJstingmshed Senator, m answe1· to the duty~ under my oath of office here, I have twO' questions to ask qu~stion which he puts me. that there has been no man in these IDy "clf: Is this a bill raising rm·enue? That is the first question. Um~e~ States more unalterably opposed to the extension of the If I determine that question in the aftil.'mative~ the lamp of my ~OUIBillila l~ttery than I .. When my peop~e. were. clamm:~g for duty wight lead my .mind toward supporting that bill, but lt ~ts suppress1~n and cro":ding upon !ll~ petition after petition to could not carry me to that point unless another question were rntroduce a btll supprcssmg the Lowsmna lottery by the exercise nl..o answered, and that conveys the entire answer to the Sena- of. the power ~ Federa._I taxation, I said to th~m. ' Gr~at as is tor's. question. Is it an honest exercise of the taxing power, or' this enl, there 1~ :m evil yet greater, _an~ that 1s the disruption is it a dishonest scheme to raise revenue and accomplish another- and the destructiOn of all the great Pl'lllCiples of our Government pm'PQse? If my mind in the exercise- of my duty here found that by calli?g ~pon th~ Federal Go-vernment to do an illegal and either of these things- exi ted, then, although it was a bill rnisilJg unconstitutional thing.' revenue, I would not vote for a dishonest bill raising .re,renue. "Mr. WASHBURN. The Senator has not answ red tile ques-

" Mr. MITCHEI..I.. But suppose there is no- objection, so far as tion which I proposed, which was whether there is any distinc­that a-speet is concerned, then I want to get tbe other objection. tion, wh~ther if we have the power to suppress the Louisiana

Mr. WHITE. If I were the Executive or a jud.ge and the bill lottery or any other lottery by invoking the taxing po-wer. we came to me,. then. having pas .. ed out of this sphere und into an- have not the same power to invoke it to suppress gambling in other sphere where motives could not enter, I should say the food produets? sole question p1·esented to me was, Dol:!s it raise revenue on its "Mr. WHITE. I \Vill discuss that question when r come to it. face? And if so, l would hold it constitutional.. I haTH already said that I decline(l ro introduce a llill tu:xjng the

'"'Mr. Hiofll:Ns. Will the Senator yield to me for a question? Louisiann. lottery by the Fed~ral Government because I Ulought "Mr. WHITE. Certainly. it violated the Federal C-onstitution. That is an an wer to the ·~ Mr~. HIGGINS. I should like to ask the Senator fi·om :Louisl- Senat01-rs question.

ana whether be- considers that the power of .the President to "Mr. President, I have reviewed the proposed statute from its l'cto a bm which bas passed the two Hon es of Congress is con- con titutional point of view, but I wish to approach it from an­fine{!, in his opinion. to its unconstitutionality, or whether he bas other point of view; and in looking rrt it in this way I entirely not just as much power as the Hou e of Representatives or th~ put by the constitutional question, I eliminate that entirely from Senate to consider the motives which may be hehind the bill·/· what I have to say. I am supposing now that this proposed

"1\Ir. WHITE.. I beg the Senator's pardon. I di.q not qllite statute is within the walls of the Constitution. What thfln? catch his last sentence. Should we look only at constitutional questions? If the distin-

" Mr. HIGGINS. l will again state my ques-tion. I ask whether guished Senator were to introduce a bill to-morrow, taking the the Senator considers that in vetoing a b-ill the President has no property of the Senator fTom Missouri and giving it to the Sen­power to do it on any other ground than th-at it is uneonstitu- ator from Georgia, and it were within the Constitution to- do so, tional in his opinion, or whether he has not the po.wer to go be- would I vote for it because it was constitutional? hind the ffi{).tive as much as a Member of either House of Con- "There mre great principles which underlie constitutions and gress? . which shm.lld con.trol all legislation. There are great elemen-

.. Mr. WHITE. I hope that when the mantle of llie Presidency tru-y conceptions of government. of English-spcakin"" govern­falls upon tlle disti:nguished Senator from Delaware he will de- ment,. born coeval with our race, and which ha-ve made our cide that question. for himself. I shall not enter into that dis- rnce the dominating race of the world. We should follow them. cuss.i.on now~ . Every elementary principle known to English-speakiug Jeais!a-

·• Mr. HIGGINS. 'Ihe . SenatOl' has as umed that such a. bill as tion is violated in this bill in every line and every puge of i t . the oleomargarine bill could be signed by the Pre ident, and "Let me sec if that fs true. What does the bill say·: 'l"he bill was signed by President CleYe.land, within his. power and com- dc..fines options. 'I'he bill defines futures. Is the definition "eu­pctency, on the ground that President Cleveland could not go ernl fn botb case ? It is. No-w, if the f}roposed statute stoppell behind the motive of the bill or to· the motive of the bfll? there and contained it penalties, then eYery llumau being and

" .l\1r. WHITE. The Senator from Delaware falls into an error. every contract for options and futures wherever our admini . I have said nothing of the kind. , I read the declaration of the tration e:rtcnued would be brought within the provi ions of a President. and I said whether he was right or whether he was· general sta.tute. Doc thi · bill do that? No; it is discriminat ­wrong-and only God himself is always right-in the exercise ing from one end to the other; it is 1lagrantly and openly dis-­of his a uthority and ofllis power, under his mission and man- criminuting. · date under the Constitution, within those limitations. that lie nAfter definin"'" options. and futures, then the bill goes on to thought he should exercise in the discha1'ge of the duties of his &'ly, not that alli contracts of t.hat kind within this broad land g~~eat office be sigDed the bill for the reasons given by him, and shull come within the reach of thls general statute; no, but tt I am not here in the discussion o1 the present subterfugeous and picks out pru·ticular things and partieular subjects matte! !! to cheating system of ta."t.atlon to he led astray into a discussion of make them alone the subjects of the general law, wllich. if it the power of the President in the exel'cise of his veto~ has any foundation in public necessity or public rjght, should

•• Mr. SANDERS. Mr. President-- opeYate over a sway as broad as our jurisdiction. LThe VICE PRESIDENT~ Does the Senator from Lonisi::ma yield Now, to wh.ftt i tile b-ilJ applied? Let me 1-ead. I h a Ye it

to the Senator from Montana? here, and I win stop a moment and read it. Just think of it! "Mr. WHITE. I would rather not yield further,. if the SenB.tar Here arc these contracts, and here m·e the ·e general tle.finition'.

will pardon me. I am heated. and I have got an extended :rrgn- "'Vhat docs it, the bill, sayr ment to make. If the Senator will just allow me to proceed with. my argument, 1! shall be obliged to him. I do not. intend to be discourteous to him.

"The.VICE Pm:smENT. Tbe Senator from Louisiana £Icctines to-

"That the nrticles to which the foregoing. se.ctioll relate are ra.-w or unmanufactured cotton, hops, wheat, corn, oats, r:re. barl.e.y, pork, lard, an~l bacon.

yield. And there. it stops. Of all the ~ast objects of contract jn "Mr~ wASHBURN. Wffi the Senator allow me? this land it makes a general definition, and then singles these u Mr. WHITE. 1 will yield to the Senator rn charge of the bill. out alone to cuver them by the provisions of the tatute. Is Hl ~!r. WASHBURN. In the article of Judge Cooley in the- Atlantic there a Senator who does not admit that from the day of

Monthly . far April he takes the grounfl s-quarely and unquaU- Magna Charta down th-e first und the ·elementary p-rinciple laid fiedly that the taxing power of the Government could be mvoked 1 down by English-speaking people is that general laws . houlu to destroy lotteries, not for the raising of revenue but for the operate gencrnlly n.nd that no discrimination should be ex r­::tbsolute destruetion of lotteries iu the country, and he elaims: 1 ciscdl? The distinguished Senator from Mi fs:sippi [M:·. that that is the onfy way that it can be permanently aceom- George] helped to frame a constitution in his State recently. I l>Iished. Now, let me ask if there is any distinction between the venhll'e to- say titat In the: exercise of the power vested in tho pomtion taken in regnrcl to lotteries- ancr the ·up:pression of Lecl. 1atrrre o.f the tate of :Mississippi this (li .., riminating

1914. CONGRESSIONAL RECOR,D-HOUSE.

clause would be stricken \Yith constitutional paralysis; because tion of mercfi:mts who meet in a room- f€Jo collect the intonna­it was not a general law. · . tion necessary tO< eoable evet·y man to trru:le on an·equ.'\1 footiJ:Iig;

" There fs not a modern State co.nstitation in this Union .wh1c.h Tbe- telegraph,. the- reports of all kinds,. the bulletin. board, ev-eQ· has not I>Ut its anathema on <liserimfnation. How then. 1s this. thing open; sa; if I may fie pardoned ~ the· use- of such! a slallci; bill justified? I do not know. By what rule htl.s, It been expressi.on, there is a fair and square deal, a.nd the maiL who• written? What bas been the prescience which has looked oyer buys and the man 'IT'ho sells, all possessing, the infol'ma.ti:o~ an this land and picked out these pa_rticular objects to make which is garnered an over the wht)-le world, deal on an. eq_u ·t them alone the subject Iillltter of this disc-riminating law? · footing,

n Mr. President. be the clamor what if may~ I know my people u-Mr: President, boo.rds of trade are true-e--volutions of that doe-weD and I should not be afraid to go with my vote before them trine of equality which has dominated the world, the eq.ualit~ with this third section in. m~ hand and int'oke thei-r ordinary , and liberty of inan. The poor man with small capital who goes, sense of- common: American fair play and feel absolutely confi- into the great chambers of commerce and the boards of trade dent of their d-enunciation of this attempt to discrimin..•1te in with all the information exposed to his. Yiew, needs to pro.tect favor of one product :u; against another- pTOduct. , himself from being gouged! and destroyed only th light. af. the

"How is this justified! I hal"e- heard some- talk aoout agricut- reason which God has given lllm. It is. putting him on a a equut­tural products. 1\Iy mail has been burdened every day for n it:y with the rich. The p-urpose of this b-ill, then, is to strikJ month almost with some circular gotten up by some c-ommittee down all the· trading. which can. be- done at a.n eqUlll mtvant:lge, somewhere. The Senator says that this bill is in the interest of antl to stimuin.te the trading where tJ.\e small man. will be- at t.It:e the farmers, that the farmers are- S(W.tiered, that they are not mercy of the b.ig Irulll. Its purpose, the-n, i to allow trading_ or!mllized and cru1 not protect their rights. and therefore the! where all th~ protections which modern. society mill m(}{\{kra m{;st be looked after. My mail has been burdened with privut~ commerce ha'fe evolYed will be destro.ved. letters telegrams, circulars, newspapers, pamphlets in fu-ror of " [At this point the honorable s~mator yie1dell the floor.} the bill which has engendered iil my mind a deep-seated alarm that there- is a mighty conspiracy against the consumers of the "'Fl'iday, JuJy 2.~, 189'2'. country and in favor of certain favored persons, and I think I "' l\lr. WHITE. Mr. Presidtm.t._ when I surrendered the floor ye;sr can demonstrate sn.ch to be the fact before r take my seat. terduy I was diseussing wlla.t I eoneeil"e to oo the confusi()n anll

"Now, take food products. Do.es tllis bill embrace food prod- the discrimination. in the terlllil of tile bill as. to the protisiOWJ... ucts?- Is eottpn a food product? How does cotton get into a. creating or d~:fining the acts which the bill prohibits, (}I' -yi£~ food-product bill? Wber~ are butter u.nd: cheese and cattle ruHl tually pl'ohibits,. so a to show tllut. the. objects embraced in an the thousand other food products which a.re left out of this those definitions were defined by no rule~ followed n(} coherent bill, which is called a food-product bill? Yon hay.e in the bill or consistent line of thought, confficted one witll tlie other, and things which are not food products, and you ha.l"e not food prod- were utterly and entirely irreconcilable. If we yiew the bill as ucts in, and yet it is said a great c-lamor comes up for this bil1 classifying the products ns agTicultural p:roduets, then a ¥a:st from the American people, beeause it is a bill to pr(}tect food number ·ot flgricuiturul products -were omitted. If we Tiew the products. If we are gojng to protect food products let us pro- b.ill as a cla.ssifica.tion of food products, it omits many thmgJi, teet them; d(} not let us discriminate. which are food products.

"Mr. WASHBURN. Cotton is a.n agl'icultuml product. "In answer to that argument the Sena.tox from ~Iinnesota. [Mr. " 1\Ir. WHITE. I am coming to agl'iculture. The b·ouble is that Washburn] yesterday said that the· line of thought along which

this bill is so incongTuous that I d-efy any Senator to take a the bUI proceeded wa to re..'l.cb the things wbieh vrere traded single heading and classify under it the arbitrary selection of in on bo::trds of tra.de. The argument; which was had ye5tel:'· subjects which al'e b-rought within its pro-visions. I shall not day I think led up directly tet the conclusion. thnt if th:.tt forget agriculture. Here are agricultural products. Is buttee were the line of thought which dominated the bill, then. tile­in the bill '2. Is cheese in the bill? Is hemp in the bill? Are necessary effect of the bill was to inerease instead of decreasing cattle in the bill? Are horses in the bill? Are mules in the gambling and speculation, because as this system of gambling the bill'Z Are sheep in tlie bill? Is wool in the bill? Only~ l\f~. anll speculation has its origin in the ineTitable tendency of tl:l~ President, in so far as the bill pulls the wool oyer our eyes on hmnau chara.cter to tuke risks, pa.rtieularly under the conditions the agricultural question. of modern life, the exclusion ot a. few artides: which were

"Mr. WASHBURN. If the Senator wiD allow me, they are not gambled in to-day, lroving the mst sum of human products outi­in the l;>ill for the reason that they are not bet on in the gam~ of" the inhibitiens of th-e- b~ would: simply deflect th.e channel bling resorts of this country. Tlmt is the reason tnes are not in of gru:nbling from the bed into, which it now tlBws into a wi-de~ the bill. and deener and stronger and a metre pernicious stre:.'\m of

" Mr. WHITE. I am coming to that. That is n confession of g::unblin.g. the discrimination, of the favoritism by which the items haTe "I called attention, howe\er, I think, yesterday to the faet been arbitrarily selected. If the gambling spilit is what the that there- was in my judgment :l Dhilos.ophically fundrunentnl Senator thinks, then this bill is going to close the exchanges mistake in attempting to forbid speculatlre tendencies on b:cmrda to these products and open the bucket shops and gambling of trade where that: tendency could be executed with reason,•thle. saloons all over the country tO> the- products which he discrimi- honesty and witfi reasonab-le precautions; and encom·age aiKl f0:8-nates against. Then we must. write in the title of this bil1 'An act passed by the Congress of the United States to stimulate ter spec.ula.tion where tllose r~"'irflli:nts- and restrictions and 'flre-

cantions did not exist. gambling in the agricultural products,. and to encoarllge tlte " Last night my attention wns called to a discussion of t'his: opening of bucket shops by forbidding ga.mbling in a few prod- question in w Will'k on political ecoooms, which seems to. he sa ucts and licensing as to all the others.' ·

"But, l\lr. President, what a proposition, that these things are apposite, so entirely to embrace th~ subject matter-of this discus..· sion, that l will send t(} th~ desk nnd liaYe rend the pnrngruplt

picked out for anathema and denunciation because they a.re ro which 1 wish. to call attention. ~Ir. Clerk, please h~n at. dealt m on boa.rds of trade! God of.. mercy, in this age of th.e """6& world are we to shut our eyes to every teaching of the En2'lish- the top of page 100, and read to the Iruu~k at the end of pagi! 101.

~ "Mr. &H.WABTr What is the work? speaking rnee? Are we fo confess that we are more ignorant "llr. WHI1'E'. Denslow on theo Principles of Economic Pl\itl}s;-than were our forefathers 200 years ago?

"'Wby, sir, what is the history of En~ish commerce? Whal: opb:y. has enabled it to carry on its wings, the light of civilization nnd "Mr. S:rn~AR:r. That is first rate. He is the ablest mttn n• religion and truth all oyer this world? What has done it- sir, has written on that subject. but the organized energies- of the great commercial bodies of u. The Ohief Clerk read a follows: the world,. Sireftking througb their chambers of commerce and "'It f-s a singular fact that markets have ~n the subj~t of po()tt:l.mr th. eir boards of trade? The yery structure of our Government, prejudice nnd moral objection, al:rlillst m proporti()ll, to the peructiB!i. with which they eeonomize time, transportation. and effort,. and eqmllize almost the very fiber of this Government, was evolyed in that prices. The p1:oper meaning of a market is riot 'merely the pl::Ic"' set country which preserved its liberties by the efforts of fts great apart in which buyers and sellers may meet with their g-ood~, but alit bodies of mercha.nts assembled together for the nurpose of that territory. with its groups of buyers and sell&s, consumers :md PL'et·

Y dn.ce.rs, of which the re idents arc so brought into nnion ::md centact trndirrg. The \er;r essence of trade is liberty it elf; intercourse with each other by the mutual intelligence which nrLc;es through recipcO<· engenders the immortal ~pirit of liberty from the l"ery fact that cal commerce that one price is artiwd at by all witn facility a ' men gather together in the inte-rest (Ff commerce; which needs Pl1?,~P~:i: rises into its highest e-fficienc¥ :md vnluc whe.n it conc.e the wings of liberty and of peace to spread itsel1 in enligh-tening trates into one focus .so ln1·ge a portion of' the bu:ye1:s aoo sellers of :t· antl impronng the world. certain commodity as t~ become, in conjn.nction with> oru> or two ot11K

'· ret "' h t tl t of th s t ~, ~ 1 d markets of the same kind, ::w atttborimtiv.e st11.ndru'd ~f prices ot th~! ' u,.., see w n te-argum€'n e epa or WO<t.u.u ea u to. article.s in which it deals. for aU buyers an.d sell.ers th1·ou~h t.J:l!(> wru:HI. J\"il{lt are the e board~ of trmle-? Th~y nre met•ely the nggregu.- By aid of the qnick intelligenrc which the t tl'gntph supplies and or th~

11498_ CONGRESSIO ""AL RECORD-.HOtrSE. . r

JULY·. 1,

&lVift ti·ansportntion which steam affords the whole world is thus con­vetted into one market having one price, subject only to cost of trans­portation of the product between the point for which the price is quoted and ,all other points. Such mal·kets are the Bourse of Paris for stocks and · securities, the London Stock Exchange as well as t.he f....on'don ~ro­duce Exchange the Liverpool' and New York Cotton Exchanges, the New York Stock Exchange, Produce Exchange, and Real Estate Exchange_ ~nd formerly the Gold Room and the Boards of 1.'rade (grain and prons10n exchancre) of Chicago, in conjunction with those of the other western cities· and thu t of Liverpool. -

"Concerning these exchanges Prof. JHons says: 'The thcot:eticnJ co~­ception of a perfect market is more or less completely carr1ed out .m pra,ctice. It is the work of brokers in any extensive market to orgamze <>xchanges so that every purchase shall -be made with t he most th_?rough acquaintance with the conditions of tlle trade. E:rch broker strwes to gain the best knowledge of the conditions of the supply and qeman~ and the earliest intimation of any change. He is in comrr;ltlnicatlon w1th as many other. tradet·s as possible in order to hav!! the widest range _ of infot·mation and the greatest chance of making smtable exchanges. It is only thus that a definite market price can be ascertained at ev~ry moment, and varied according to the frequent news capable of affectmg buyers and sellers. By the mediation of a body of brokers a complete consensus is established and the stock of every seller or the demand of eve1·y buyer brought into the market. It is of the very essence of trade to have wide and constant information. A market, then, is theoret!C?liY perfect only when all traders have perfect 1..-no~ledge of the condJtJO~s ot supply and demand and the consequent ratlo of exchange; and m such a market as we sLall now see, there can only be one ratio of e:xchang_e of one uniform comm.odity at any moq~ent . .

"Mr. WHITE. Mr. -President, the object of the bill, the -rery cla'ssification defined in the bill, is to exclude the products which are dealt in on this kind of a market, and leave outsiue of the operations of the bill the products which are dealt in in another or unrecognized market. I send up to the desk and ask to have read the description of the other .market to which the things_ not brought into -the bill nrc re;legnted. I have marked the passnge on page 10!) of the ·arne· work.

. ·; The Chief ·clerk read as follows:

" rn the sale of carriages, pianos, jewelry, clothing, and other things which do not admit of such au authOI;itative contest over the price, there is "Teat inequa lity in the prices at which two 11ersons in the same city on~thc same day may buy two things of the same kind and of equal value. Hence there is great cheating in such tt·ading. . One may pay . 200 for. a watch which another buys for $100. '!'~ere is no standard. IIi all these grades of goods long credits . must be g1ven, as the dealers must hold the goods until they reach consumet·s. . .

"But In articles dealt in by produce exchanges the price l S advanced to the producer . and his crop can always be sold if he desires ·even before it is harvested. · llence the authoritative manufacture of prices confers omewhat the same benefit on a community as Is conferred by au authori­

tative system of law, religion, manners, and ethics. It enables every man to know each moment how he stands relatively to the results of his pa. t e:x:et·tion , what they have cost, ~nd !\ow much he can get ~or them.

".Mr. WrrrrE. Such, .Mr. President, is the description of the market destroyed by the proYisions of this bill. The agricul­tural products which have the safe and the sound and the en­lightened and the progressi-re market as ·defined in this book; and, as resulting from the nature of things, have the hands of palsy put upon them by thi pt·oposed statute, and. dealers :ue relegated to the character of Jilarket·as defined so clearly by this . aufuor, where cheating mid lying necessarily from the nature of things obtain.

" I think that is a complete exposure therefore of the discri ru­ination which is found in the bill as to the nature of the products embraced within it. But there is an ans,ver yet more conclusive as to this discrimination. If the purpose and object of the bill is to strike with pal y transactions on 'boards of exchange .. on boards of trade, why is it that the terms of the billlea,·e ·out all that vast body of property ninning up into the hundreds ot· thou-ands of millions, the bonds and stocks and values of every kind

in this country, which form the great sum of the speculation of tlle country? If the vice of gambling and the tendency of O'ambling is what is reached by the bill on boards of trade or exchano-e why is it that the bill leaves the New York Stock Exchaneg~ and all the other great stock exchanges in this country open, where values exceeding in value the things included in this bill are dealt in, by the very methods and by the very pro­cedures which the bill condemns? By what rule will we here, legislating for a whole country, say that we will make our legislation partial; that we will select one class and leave out other and greater classes by applying the rule which the di.s­ullguished Senator has nnnounced?

"Mr. President, thi discrimination as to the things _which are made the subject matter of the legislation in· the bill i ·, in my judO'ment far the lea t di crimination which the bill contains. Thee discrimination which hitherto I haye demonstrated is as to lhe object to which it is applied. There j a brander, deeper dis­crimination in the bill as to classes in this onntry. I find in the testimony a statement by the pl'esident of tlle Milwaukee Chamber of Commerce as to tile class di ·tinction which is car­ried 'in this bill ; which strike: me with . o much fnrc.c that I s~ntl _it' to the de. k to be read.

":Mr. GEORGE. What is the uame of the witness? ' The Chief Clerk read .as follows: . "Mr. Bacon, of the ~1ilwaukee Chamber of Commerce: "Now, !'wish to call attention to the fact thnt this legislation. if it

is to have the effect which it Is expected to have, and which is un­doubtedly the object of the promoters of this mensm·e, is legi lation in favot· of a class-in favo~:· of the pt·oducing class; and if it produces the effect desired, it is legislation against the inter·est ot the consum­ing class. It stands to reason that whatevet· enhancement ot' value may inure to the farmer falls necessarily upon the consumer.

"The census of 1880 (the figures for· 1890 at·e not yet prepru·ed) shows that the number of persons engaged in al) gainful occupations of the countt·y were 17,392,000 in round !\Umbers; of those en~aged in agriculture there wet·e 7,G70,000, constituting 44 per cent of the whole. '!'bose rmgaged. as it is termed, in gainful occupations compl"ising the mercantile and manufacturing and mining interests of the country; those engaged in agr·iculture compl'ising all who are engaged in any branch of agl'iculture, not only in the raising of grain and live stock, but flor·ists, tree men, an(l ever.v branch of agr·icultural service; showing that 44 per cent of the population is directly interested in the produc­tion of agricultural products of all kinds. ll"or the IJenetit of that 44 per. cent the otbei' 56 P.et· cent of the population, it' the objects of the bill be a ccomplished, will be taxed ; ot·, to speak more properly, they arc to lJe deprived of the benefit resultin~ ft•om the opera tions of the natural and established laws of trade in theit· favor in ot·der that 44 pet· cent of the population may receive a benefit. Now, the injustice of that is apparent on its face. .

''But I wish to go a little fm·ther on that point. Ot those engaged In agrlcultm·al pursuits. the number so engaged in the 10 cotton States is 2,837.000, which. deducted from the whole number engaged in agt·i­cultute, leaves 4,833,000 pt·esumably engaged in the production ot' cereal and meat products, which represents a percentage of 28 of the aggre­gate. Instead of those who are raising_ cereal products, who at·e sup­posed to be benefited by this bill, being 44 per cent of the whole, it would be only 28 per cent of the whole. Those who are engaged in raising cotton at·e, of course. consumers of cereal products and of meats which are t·aised in the North, and they become sufferers in consequence of the enhanced values that are expected to result from the opet·ation · of this bill. I believe these expectntions to be false, and that they will not be realized. But it is the purpose of the promoters of the bill to pt·oduce this result for the benefit of those engaged in t·aising cereal and meat products of the country, and if it does produce that trect it bene­fits 28 per cent of the people a t tlle expense of· 72 pet· cent of the people. Now. I submit whether this is fair legislation, to say nothing of the wi dom of it.

" :\It·. \\rrriTE. Now I send up to be read the opinion of Mr . Pillsbury as to the effect of this legislation if the purpose of its authors is successfn1. I <lesire to say before the Chief Clerk rends the excerpt that' in the course of my remarks to-day I sh~ll hn-re occa ion to refer to l\Ir. Pillsbury as an authority on the subject matter under di cussion. At the very outset I wish to di tinctly announce the fact that in referring to Mr. PHis­bury I intend by no ~ay, directly or indirectly, in the remotest possible mannei· to refer to the distinguished Senator from hli~l­nesota because of the fact that be has a business connection with ~Ir. Pill ·bury.

"There is no Senator on this floor for whom I have n higher respect anu a more profound admiration than tl1e Senator from Minnesota; and if I make the e references in the cliscb;trge of my duty I wish to enter at once a disclaimer of any possible im­putation that in any '\Yay in the world I wish to indicate that I think the tli tinguished Senator is impelled in his course on this bill by anything but the highest sen e of public duty to his country.

" The 'hief ClP-rk reau as follows :

"Senator PL.1.T'l'. Then comes the othet· question which I was going to a. k : Suppose this bill can be passed; do you think it would have any effect on the average price of wheat for the year?

" l\lr. PILLSBURY. I think decidedly It would. "Senator PLATT. Would make it higher? "::\11', PILLSBURY. Yes, sir. · "Senator PLATT. And tllen the people who eat lhe wheat would have

to give more fot· it? . " Mr. PILLSBURY. They would. " Senator l'LATT. Do you think that is a good thing? "Mr. PILLSBCRY. Yes; Sit·. "Senator PLATT. 'l'o make e\'ery man who eats your flo~r pay more

for It in consequence of legislation? "Mr. PILLSBURY. -Yes, sir; so long as this country is an exporter ot

wheat and raises one-third more wheat than it consumes. If we can keep the price of breadstuffs on a higher level, as it is well known that the little farmers have not had living prices for their wheat, I think lt would be a good · thing for the country, taken as a whole, and I. think that Connecticnt would be more prosperous if the people or that State bad to pay a dollar or two more for their flour; I think that the gen­eral buyin"' capacity ot the Northwest and wheat-growing States would be that m~ch increased. That is my doctrine of political economy.

"Mr. WHITE. Now, ~fr. President, let us admit that the · theory of the proponents of the bill is true, these consequences will follow. Are they just? Is there a Senator who · admits that we should legislate in favor of one class and against the other? ·

"Mr. wASHBURN. Will the Senator allow me jnst a mornent? "Mr. WHITE. Certainly. "Mr. WASHBURN. Does not the Senator think it is fair both

to the producer and to the con umer to allow the law of trade au<l . nppJy? :}fy idea~· _tha t there sbou1d be no artificial cbaugc

·.

1914 .. CONGRESSIONAL· :REOORD-HOUSFt 11499 whereby prices a·re made either orie way or the other from the legitimate law of .supply, and aemand. .

" 1\Ir. WHrri:: I, of course, anticipated and was approaching the objection which the Senntor makes. But it seems to me there is a coillusi.on of thought in the Senator's m1nd; I say it with great respect. Is not the right to make a contract for fu­ture delivery as much a right as the right to make any other contract? Has not the Supreme Court of the United States recognized that a futm-e contra~t was a valid contract? Is not the sum of human liberty the right of a citizen to deal as he pleases and with such freedom as belongs to evru:yone?

"Of .course, j11 ; t legislation ought to balance eT"ery man's right equally and leaxe every man his freedom. But when it is proposed to restrain a man of his natural liberty to mako a con­tract, which right inheres in him, with the object a.nd purpose of bettering one class to the detriment of the other, I submit it is vicious and wrong in legislation. .

"The only answer I find in the testimony is that there is such a solidarity between all classes of a community that if you benefit one the reflex resultant of this benefiti!J.g of .one will so help the one who is injured as to cure the wound which you will have inflicted by the statute. That is the argument. I shall not attempt to answer it now. Suffice to say that this is the argu­ment put all through this testimony by those who urge this bilL I shall haT"e occasion, I think, in a few moments to &how that '\"Vhile they put this argument for the purpose of defending this part of the bill, when they reach another part of the bill which is subject to attack, they deny the solidarity whic~ they affirm here for the purpose of defending this provision.

·• Now, let us see if there is not another discrimination in the bill, a discrimination a ;:; to persons: The second section ·of the bill', after defining futures and options, says what? It excepts certain pe~sons from every provision of the bill, and who are those persons? The Government of the United States and every town and municipality. Now, what is the theory of this bill? T.he theory of the bill is that these dea.linr;.s are wrong, that they ought to be forbidden. It looks- to me as very bad public policy to denounce a thing by a prohibitory tax and then immediately declare that the 1oYernment may do it. That looks to me inde­fensible. What answer does the distinguished Senator make to this objection: He says, and I quote from his speech:

"The United States or any State, Territory, county, or municipa lity do not come within the provisions of this section, for the United States, or any State, Territory, .or municipaLity do not make their purchases of supplies of boards of trade, but they are usually m.n.de by receiving bids or proposals from parties who have the articles desired to be purchased.

"The Government is excepted from the operation of the bill because the Government deals with people who have the o.bjects which they propose to offer. Is not tha~ entirely inaccurate? Does not eyerybody know that nearly all the supplies which are furnished this Gove1·nment are tendered to the Government by people who have not got them and who have to acquire them? The very coal which is to heat tbis building at the next session of Congress has been contracted for, I am told, by one who is a coal dealer, and be bas a contract for future deli very with a miner who is to mine it.

" Therefore this exception is all wrong. It is a i)lain discrimi­nation. ·The reason given for it is wrong. The reason given for it strikes me as a yery confused reason. If the terms of the bill do not rea<:h th'e Government, then why is the Government excepted? The yery making of the exception in the bill under evecy: element:lry rule of construction is a regatiT"e pregnant l';·ith the affirmative that if the exception were not made the Government would. be included; and yet the Government is ex­cept~1 on the ground that the bill does not cover the Govern­ment, when if that be accurate there was no necessity for the governmental exception whatever.

"Let me show by a cuTious coincidenc::l bow remarkable this exception is. One of the subject matters included in the bill and, as I hope to demonsb.-ate later, will be ruined by it is cot: ton. Where did dealing in futures in cotton arise? Such trades in .cotton futures arose in dealing with the Government. This is shown by an examination of a work which is the niost authoritn.­tiye work on cotton, Mr. Donnell's work, the accepted authority with everybody in the cotton trade. Mr. Donnell was a broker of great merit and high character, who, having accumulated a competency, has retired from business and devoted himself to the literature of this subject In discussing the question of the origin of the future d~livery of cotton he says:

" Contracts for future delivery.-Tllls business commenced during our Civil War.

" Speaking of cotton : . " Some ot our manufacturers entered into large. contracts with the

Government, and covered themselves by purchasing the rnw material for delivery at' some future . time: . Tbe price, withlil certa.ln wide limits was th :?n of much less importance than the certainty of getting the cot ton wben needed.-(ID. J. Donnell's Hlstor;v of Cotton. p. 614.)

4' Now,· the Government is eicepted -from tbe operation of thl.<J

bill on the grolmd that the bill does not apply to the G<n·ern· ment; therefore showing that the exception ought not to be het-e. It is excepted on the further ground that people who sell to the Government haye the property, when such is not the fact. Her the development comes that the Yery origin of dealing in futur s in cotton came from contracts with the Government made during the Civil War. It seems to me this answer is complete--

" Mr. WASHBURN. Was it made on a board of exchange? '' 1\Ir. WHITE. I have already answered the Senator's argn­

ment about the board of exchange. I haT"e nlreadv demon­strated, I think, that trade can be a great deal more safely made on a board of exchange, ·where all the dealers, all the sellers, and all the buyers are congregated. where there is an ascertained and established price, than it can be made where snell a thing does not &ist.

"Let us take the distinction as to persons. The farmer bas been left out from the proWbition of .the bill. I think hereafter, when I come to another part of the bill, I can show that this ii an illusory jack-o'-lantern exception left in this bill to lure e.te farmer on to his destruction. But suppose I should not demon­strate that, by what theory are we to say, here is 2. class of con­tracts which we strike with moral and legal inhib!tion, and tllea immediately take out of the reach of the inhibition a certain fa­vored class of persons?

"Mr. President, the germ of more harm to the farming class lies within that exception than words can tell. They, above all other people in the race for honest government, require no dis­crimination. They, above a ll other people, must guard them­selT"es against the arbitrary exercise of governme-atal power for the purpose of favoring classes. In this proposed statute the il­lusory concession which is made to them is sure to become the fruitful source of untold injuries to come hereafter.

"But it may be said the farmer makes the crop; the farmer intends to get a crop. This bill only allows him to sell the crot' which he has in process of fruition or which he intends to make. and it uses that expression. Does that differentiate the proposi­tion? Is the farmer's intention to make his crop any more seri­ous than lllUY be the intention of t 1- .., man who contracts to deliver a thousand bushels of wheat on a particulur day? l:i. the realization of his intention any more possible? Is the cer­tainty that the intention which is in his mind is going to taka life and being by the production of that crop any more ce1·taiLa than would be the ability of a man of fortune, with the money in bank, to buy the product that he is going to buy in the futftll­ment of a contract? Is it not absolutely certain, on the oth.er hand, that the risk of no'~ being able to ful.fill, whatever mav ~ the hone ty of the intention, is greater in the farmer's cnse than it is in the other?.

"There is the exception written into this bill of retail deniers. and I suppose.otber exceptions. I think that makes this :m ex­ceptional bill, so entirely exceptional that I think it ought to be beaten.

"But let me call attention to another tiling. All through t llis testimony-and I wan : to emphasize this fact-all thrcugh tlli.s testimony there is the admission that it is absolutely esse11tiul. for the successful commercial sale of the thir:gs which a~·e stated in the bill that trade for future delivery in them should not be: hampered. Even the persons who most favor this legislation ill their testimony say we would be against this legislation if it hampered legitimate trade. The disti::guished Sen a tor from Minnesota in his speech on the bill said :

"I desire right here to distinctly state that it is not th-e purpose of thls bill-neither does it-in any manner whatever to interfere with th<l bargain, puTcbase, or sale of any product or property where the partY' mal..'ing such sale is the owner thereof or whet·e be bas a contract fo·~ the ownership or right of possession of the same.

" It neither seel-s nor does it in any way interfere witll the freedoin of commerce, but leaves legitimate trade without restriction or hin­drance.

"These words were deli\"ered in a discussion of this bill With the twelfth section in it, with the twelfth section in it which im· posed a licelh..<:e of $2 upon all trade in actual cotton, e•en. the trading taken out of the operation of the definitions In the bill. It is said of this bill to-day, which, even after the motion t<J strike out the twelfth section has <:arried, leaves the thirteenth section in it-that section pro-vide~ that wherever an internal~ revenue collector has .reason to belie\e or to presume that any man is doing the things forbidden by the act, although he be making the future sales which are allowed, shall haT"e a right to call for and inspect -his books and business.

"The freedom from unreasonable search arose with l\fagna Charta: haT"e we come now to this state of things in the Ameti­can Senate that a contract which all the court" haye dectart!d· to be lawful, which the bill admits to be lawful, is submitted. tuo the right of search upon the mere suspicion of an internal·

1_1500_ C01 GRESSION .A.L -RECORD-HOUS.E. Ju:LY 1,-----------------------------------~------~~------~~--~----~----~ reYenue .officer? Yet the declaration is made that -there is . no intention in this bill to interfere with the freedom of trade. 'l'he earnestness of purpose and the zeal of the distinguished Sen­ator, the evil which be sees and wishes to cure for a g1·eat public purpo e, have so dominated his mind anti clouded his vision that there lies a fog between his mind and the great and elementury principles of Americr.. u Government; be ees freedom where I see slu •ery and oppression.

•• l\lr. President, let me pass away_ from these things. I wish to discuss the e sential features of the bill now. I have dis­cussed it hitherto on the theory that lt was unconstitutional. I haYe taken up its contrarieties, and its confusions, and its con­tra<lictions, :mu its stipulations against human 1iberty and ele­mentary rights. I propose now to turn my back npon all that. I Jlropose to urge the defeat of this biU, supposing that this was rr body with no restriction on it whate-rer, tilnt this Senate was the most untrammeled and absolute legislative body in the world, that the Constitution was a myth, and all the re ·traints of English-speaking go•ernment a mere c.bimera which we bad forgotten and which we were nen~r to recall. I say, looking at this bill from this point, it is pernicious and vicious; that it will strike a blow at tile commerce of this country the lengtil and breadth and width and depth of which no human mind can com­pa s _ uutjl its results of disaster ba•e worked out. Let me see if t:tw t is true.

"There is an elementary principle of legislation that in mat­ters of commerce the wisest, safest. best. the most enlightened p1·ocess is to accept the judgment of the men who by long com­mercial training and long commercial experience have a knowl­edge of the commercial subject matter in hand. That is an elementary rule. There is not a court, I think, in this lnnd sit­ting to-day with a jury impaneled between man and man-=-! do not know how it is in the other States; I know it is so in mine, and I know it is laid down in elementary books on eviclence-:­thnt if a complex commercial question were presented to that jury a commercial expert would not be allowed to testify. All the great reforms in our system, the protection of innocent hold­m.·s, the rights accorded to third parties, all on1· system of in­sur::mce, all our system of maritime law, are not originally the creatures of statute. They · were all brought forth from a mighty evolution, whicil treated the aggregate sense of the com­mercial world on a commercial question as the aggregate com­mon sense of mankind.

"Now, what is the fact about this bill? There is a persistent. consistent, a universal declaration of aH the commercial bodies in this country against this bill, and specifically pointing out the evils which will result from it.

"Mr. President, I send to the desk and desire to have rencl the protest of the Chamber of Commerce of the State of New York.

" The VICE PRESIDENT. 'l"'be protest will be read. "The Secretary read as follows:

•· THE CHAMBEll OF CO:II.UERCE OF 1'HE STATE OF NEW YORK.

" Meeting of Thursday, March 3, 18!>2. "Tb~ committee on internal trade and improvements, to whose atten­

tion was brought a request from the New York Cotton ExchanO'e to join in a protest against tht·ee bills which have been recently pres~nted to Congt·ess, viz: House bill No. 2609, by Mr. Hatch, of Missou1·i · ~en­ate bill No. 685, by Mr. Washburn; and Senate bill No. 1268, by Mr. reffPI", reported as follows tht·ough Chairman Louis Windrnuller:

'" It appears to have been the mistaken notions of the fmrners that they conld benefit producers as well as consumet·s if they throw ob­stacles in the way of dealers, to sell what they do not own and buy what they do not need. They evidently believe that such sales and pur­chases tend unnaturally to depress or advance values. They seem to forget that these so-called speculators must deliver· what they have sold and pay for what they bought. The price of cotton is low, not because ~~ ~~~lf~ld short, but because the production Is large and consumption

"When a manufacturer is anxious to secure raw material for future m'1iers, which are offered to him at a time when cotton ·on the spot commands a higher price than be can pay. the middleman, who antici­pates a reduction oi values, comes forward and agrees to furnish It at a figure which enables the mill owner to close contracts for the fabrics demanded by his customers. Breadstuffs are hi.,.h. not because they were bought for a rise, but because they ar·e needed by nations whose crops have been a faUure. An exp01·ter receives an ordet· to forward at certain limits, when navigation opens, to a pot·t on the Baltic Sea a cargo of corn. It is unobtainable and not wanted for immediate de­livery. The dealer in futures steps in and agrees to furnish to the exp01·ter what he wants at the time when he needs it.

·• lt is indisputable that such dealers have become useful factors In the general development of commerce ever· since It has assum!'d Ia1·ge proportions. They take risks by which future wants are provided in our horne market as well as in foreign countries. When they overstep the limits of prudence they are the sufferers, rather than producers and con urnet·s. A combination of such men is not powerful enough to con­trol prices of the great staples of this country beyond their natural level so as to cause serious injury. ·

"But even If tbe public should occasionally suffer .becnuse the markets have been forestalled, your committee does not believe that tbe course provided by these bills furnishes a proper remedy for· the evil . · rast ' exper·ience shows that legislation will only do harm when ' it tries to interfere with the natmal laws of trade.

· "Your com_mlttee tber~f01·e. .recommend· tbat this Chambei· join the Cotton Exchange aild 'the other comrner·eial bodies throughout the coun- 7

try in a protest against the passage of these bills, as they wotild injure • the_ bes_t intereRts ·of the cornrnuhit:V. ·

:: 0~ ~otion the following resolutions we1·e unanimously at1opted .: > "hereas there has been Introduced in the Senate of the TJnited

Stntel! by Sen.ator Washburn or Ml_nnesota biils known as s. G ii and • ~- 11:<11, aJ?d m the House of Representatives by Representative Hatch • of MlSSOUI'l a bill kJ;Iown as H. R. 2690, levying a tax on purcllnEes and sales for future delivery of cotton and all bog products of 5 cents per· pound, and on wheat, corn, oats, bal'ley, and other !!rnln of !W cents per bushel ; and "'

"\Yhereas should any one of these be enacted into law the 1·e ult would be the supp1·ession of trading in this country in whnt is known ns c~>ntracts fot· future delivet·y of the articles mentioned. to the great deh·1ment of all persons engaged in tbeit· "'rowin"' handlin"' or 'con-suming: . "' ''" "'' .

"Resol!;ed, 1'bnt the Cbambcr of Commerce of tbc Stnt~- of New Yo1·k berehy entet·s Its solemn protest against the enactment into law of anv of the before-m~nt!oned bills now befot·e Congress or of any otbe1· biil or bills of slmllal· purport.

"Resolved, 'l'hat this Chamber hPreby exp1·esses its onllernnntion of any attempt on th_e part of · Congress to enact laws fo1· the supposed be~.Cfit of one ,Portion of the community as against nnoctbm·.

Resolved, That whatever the asserted evils may be incident to this method of doing business, it affords a mcasm·e of secm·itv nnd p•·otec­tlon to le~ltlrnatc tt·nders l!S well as to the producers of the r.rticles named that is not · to be dJst·eg-ni·ded. ·

"Resoh:ed, That it is the opinion of this Chamber that no "'OOd can ' result to the agricultural interesf' of the country h:v any l;,.lslation that curtails and restt·icts ft·ee and untrammeled tmdfn... "'

"Resol t:erl, That the great law ·of supply and demand regulates valuE'S of everything, and that no pnt·ticular system of trndiu" ca11 PVE'l' more thnn teml?oral"ily. if at all. ohsti'Uct its full operation~ that _ th i;; inex­orable law always ·has and always will operate wbe thet· n man sell!'! what he do~s not possess In the hope of securing_ It at a later period nt a le!)ls price or not, and that any effort having m view the abolition of 'short selling,' if enacted into Jaw, would not only fnll lo SN'\II'e the imaginary benefits sought, but would be productive of incalculable Injury to legitimate business mterests while this fac,t Is in pt·occss ·or being- determined. - ·

"Resol1;ed, Thnt a copy of this protest be forwarded to each Senator and Representative in Congress.

"Goo. WrLso~. Secretar y.

"1\Ir. WHITE. Mr. President. I sent up and had rend first · the memorial of this great body, because by its constitu'ti;m :1.1id . orgnuization it is not n trade body . . It is not the Chnmber of Commerce of New York City. It is the Chamber of Comineree of the State of New York. perhaps one of tbe greatest t)oclh~s of · commel'cial aclYisers in the commercial world to-day, cumt1o~ert of men many of whom are removed from practical busine.-~. men of large fortune, dealing in vast sums, men of great ability and · thoroughly verse:i in the movements of commerce, wbo~E> opin­ion and judgment expressed on any commercial qnestiou any- . where where commerce is carried on would have great w~ight and great responsibility.

"I now send up to the desk, 1\Ir. President, and ask to have read the memorials of the banks and bankers of New Y()rk, the banks and bankers of Chicago, and the banks and btwk~rs of the city of New Orlenns.

·'Tile Secretary read as follows: .. NEW YORK BANKS L'\'D B~~KERS.

" NEW YORK, Fcbt'ltary ~. 1892. u To tlle h01101·able the House of Representati z:es of the United States:

" The undersigned, engaged in the_ banking business in the city of New York, believe ·that if llouse of Representatives bill No. 26!)0, now befo1·e your honorable body, taxin;; pnrcba'ses and sales of cotton, ~~·ain and bog products for future delivet·y, becomes a law it will do great · da'rna"'e to the business in those articles and work a sel"ions injury to produrer'?s. ·

"'l'bat, as bankers. we considet· our· risk in advancing on such prop­erty ve1·y much less than was the case prior to the inauguration of the present method of doing business.

"We thet·efore earnestly protest ag-ainst the passage of this measure and tr·ust that no legislation in this direction may be approved ljy your . honorable body. ·

"J'as. '1'. Woodward, president Hanover National Bank·· ;r Edwar·d Simmons, president Fourth National Hank ; Warner Van Norden. president National Bank of N01·th · America; Arthur B. Graves. president St. Nicholas . Bank; James Stillman, president National City Ba.nk­A. E . On-, vice president Mechanics' National Bank~ Forest H. Parker. president New York Pr·oduce Ex: change; Charles M. Ft·y, president Bank of New Yot·k . National Banking Association; R. M. Gallaway, presi­dent Mer·cbants' National Bank; H. Rocholl, p•·csident Get·rnan American Bank; W: W. Flannagan, PI'esidcnt ' Southern National Bank; W. A. Nash, president Corn · Exchange Bank; J'. H. rarket·, pr·esldent United Stntes National Bank; Jno. B. Woodward, president Tbh·d Na- · tional Bank; W. W. Sherman, president National Bank of Commerce; W. H. Perkins, pt·esident Rank or America; R. L. Edwards, president Bank of the State of New York: E. H. Perkins, jr., president Irnpoi·tet·s· and .T1·aders' National Bank; H. W. Cannon, pl'esident · Chase National Bank; J. -- . Cilley, president Ninth Na­tional Bank; D. C. Hays. president Manhattan Co. ; · Gem·ge Bliss, of 1\!orton, Bliss & Co., bankers; Laden­burg, Thalmann & Co., bankers: Knautb. Nacbod & ' Kuhne, bankers; La'zard Freres, bankers; Bat·ing, 1\.Ia­goun & Co .. bankers; Bt·own Bro~. & Co., bankt>rft; :r. & W." 'Sellgman & Co., 'bankers; Heldelbach, Icke!beimet· & Co:, bankers; Kuhn, Loeb & Co.,· bankers; Blukc, Bt·otll· ' ers & Co., bankers. • -

'

1914. CONGRESS~ONAL _RECORD-HOUSE! ll50_l ·

"The VICE PRESIDENT. Does tbe Senator desire to have the n:unes attached to these memorials read?

"Mr. WHITE. No; Mr. President; I do not. "Tile Secretary continued to read as foiiows:

"CHICAGO BANKS A:SD BA:SKERS. ·

" CHICAGO, .ILL., February .f, 1892.

u To the Congress of t11e United States: "'l'be t,mdPrsigned hereby respectfully and urgently prot~st again~t the

enactment of Senate bill 1757, 'defining options and futures, and known as the Wasbbut·n bill. .

"We beliPve that the passage of any such bill would be not only sPL·iously- detrimental to thP argicnlturist, but would be of. incalculable Jniury to tbe manifold industries of the entire country, masmucb as these Industries depend for their profitable prosecution upon that s~s­tem of buying and selling for future delivery which the Washbum btU would destt;oy. ·

" We heheve the dealings in futures in grain and hog product, as regulated by the Board of 'l'radP. of the city of Chicago and ~imllar ucbanges. based on the actual delivery of the commodity traded 10, at·e

- the highest development, aftt>r vears of expetit>nce and labor, of the best system of handling the enormous crops of this country to the most profitable advantage of the producer.

"This system affords an opt>n market on which the world's compe~l­tion can mePt in establishing values without the limitations and restnc­tions wblcb an exclusively consumptive demand would impose.

"rt dnllv declaration of values is an analysis of the world's product and t·equlreinent, and reduces to the minimum the risk of. those t>ngaged. in handling the ct·ops. thereby securing to the producer the highest bids at a 11 times. .

"Bv this system our merchants yearly advance millions of money for the crlbhing and warehousing of grain throughout the ;ountry, which without the protection of the present market would not be done.

"To d1•stroy this system, as contemplated by the Washburn bill. would reduce the circulation of money when most . needed to move the crops. would greatly rPstrict credits . owing to uncertainty of . values, practically drive the small grain merchants from the field, and con­CPntrate the business of handling the products herein referred to in the ba.nds of wealthy corporations and syndicates of ·warehousemen and_ millers.

"Corn Exchange Bank, by ErnPst A. Hamill, vice pres}dent; Illinois State Savings Bank. by .J. J. Mitchell. president; Bank of Montreal, Chicago. Ill., by Willam Monro. manager; Union National Bank. by August Blum, cash­tel ; thP Northwestern National Bank. of Chicago. by E. Buch"ingbam, president; tbe Metropolitan National Bank, by E. J. Keith. president; the Atlas National Bank, by C. B. Farwell, vice president; Merchants' National BaLk, by C. J. Blair, president; the_ Mer­chants' Loan & Ti·ust Co., by .J. W. Doane, president; the Commercial National Bank, of ChJcauo. by H. F. Eames, president: tbP Amt>rican Trust & Raving Bank. by G. B. Shaw, president: Fort Dearborn National Bank, bv John A. King, president; American Ex~bange Na­tfonal Bank, by John B. Kirk, president; the Union Trnst Co., of Chicago. by S. W. Rawson, president; the National Bank of Jllinois, by George Schneider, presi­dPnt; HibE>rnian Banking Association. by J. V. Clark: pt·esldent; First National Bank of Chicago. by R .. T. Strt>et, cashier; Continental National Bank. by John C. Black, pt·esident; the Columbia National Bank. by Z. Dwiggins, cashier ; the Globe National Bank. by D. A. Moulton, cashier; Royal Tt·ust Co .. by J. B. Wilbm·, cashier; National Bank of the Rl:'public, Chicago, Til .• by .John A. Lynch. president; the Hide and Leather National Bank. Chicago Ill., by Charles ·F. Grey, presi­dent: the Northern Trust Co., by Byron r~. Smith, president; National Bank of America, by Morton B. Hull, vice president; Bank of Commerce. by H. Felsen­tbal. presidPnt: Commercial Loan & Trust Co., by James B. Hobbs. president: Chemica..] National Bank. Chicago, 111.. by G. ·E. Hopkins, cashier; Franklin MacVeagh; Marshall Field; Sprague, Warner & Co.; Lord. Owt>n & Co. : Markley. Alling & Co. : Pitkin & Brooks; Rlt>d, Murdock & Co.; W. l\f. Hoyt & Co.; Kelley, Mans & Co.; M. D. Wells & Co. ; Selz, Schwab & Co. ; Phelps, Dodge & , Palmet·; Butler Bros.; Cat·son. Pirie, Scott & Co.; JamPs H. Walker & Co.; By. W. King & Co.: C. M. Henderson & Co : Sweet, Dempster & Co.; Wells & Nellegar Co. ; Hibbard, Spencet·, Bartlett & Co. ; Mc­Cormick Harvesting Maclilne Co.; Frazer & Chalmers; Warder, Bushnel & Glessner Co.

" NEW ORLEANS BANKS AND BANKERS.

" NEW ORLEANS, December SO, 1891. u T~ t11e hotlomhle the House of Representati·ves and Senate

of the United States of .A.me1"ica, Washington, D. 0.: " Tile undersi-gned, engaged in the banking business in the city . of

New Orleans. believe if Senate bill 685, 'the Washburn bill,' taxing purchase and sale of 'cotton, grain, and hog products, becomes a law, tbat it will do tmmensP damage to the business in those articles, reduce stability tn valu!'s, and work gt·eat injury; and that as bankers we eonsider our risk in advnn<'ing on such property very much less than was t:he case orior to the Inauguration of the presl:'nt mode of doing business. ThercfPre we most respectfully protest against the passage of the bill. ·

"N. B. Sligh, president, Southern National Bank; R. M. Walmsley, president, Louisiana National Bank: C. Kohn. president. Union National Bank; A. Baldwin, president, New Orleans National Bank; George R. Pres­ton. presidt>nt. Hibernia National Bank; G. W. Nott president, Citizens' Bank of Louisiana; L. · C. Fallon' presidt>nt. Mutual National Bank; Cbas. F. Hoffman' bnoket·s and exchange: H. Maspet·o, prt>sident, Tt·aders: Bank ·; .James· T. Hayden. president, \Vbitney National Bank; H. Gardes, president. American National Bank; W. P. Nicholls, PI'Psident. Bank of Commerce; N. Lan­dry, presl(lent. People's Bank of New Orleans; Pierre Lanaux. ·president. State National Bank; J". C. Morris, president, New Orleans Canal & Banking Co. ; . G. Ad.

LI-725

Blatl'er, casbJPr, Germ.anla Savings Bank; Jos_ L. Bour­dette; Fred. Peters, president, -:.fph•opolltan Bank; Gil· bl:'rt H. Green; Germania National Bank, .1. C. Denis, · pr.esident ; .1\Ioore, Hyams & Co. ; Isidore Newman, sr. ; Bertus & Dnrel. . _

~<Mr. WHITE. Mr. President, I send, in addition to these, a '. list of commercial bodies throughout the country protesting · against the passage of this bil_l. Along with that Jist I send .

. up the m~morials themselves; and I request that the list be pr~nted . as a part of my remarks, and that tile memorials also bt printed_ as an appendix. · · · :

"'£he VICE PRESIDENT. That order will be ronde if there be no objection. The Chair hears no objection. It is so ordered.

"Mr. WHITE. I ask. that the list be read. · · "The "VICE PRESIDENT. Tile list will be read. " The, Seeretary read as follows:

"LIST OF EXCHANGES, BOARDS OF TRADE, MERCHANTS, MILLEllS, ETC., PROTESTING AGAINST A.NTIOPTION BILL,

" New Orleans Cotto·n Exchange. . " Savannah Cotton Exchange.

" Iiouston Cotton Exchange and Board of Trade. " Mobile Cotton Exchange. " Gret>nvllle Cotton Exchange. " Memphis Cotton Exchange. "Milwaukee Chamber of Commerce. " Chicago Board of Trade. " New York Produce Exchange. "New Orleans Board of Trade (Ltd.). "New Orleans Clearing House Association. "Bankers, millers, and merchants of Toledo, Ohio. "Baltimore Corn and Flour Exchange. "Chicago merciJants and manufacturers. "Minneapolis Clearing House Association. "Minneapolis Business ITnion. " Minneapolis Chamber Qf Commerce. "Mr. WHITE. Now, Mr. President, in the face of thi;;; almost

universal commercial opinion nre we going to pasf. this bill? Will it be said, as was intimated on this floor, tpat perhaps some o:... the bankers ILay have objection to tile bi 11 because it would affect their deposits of margins on futures? Can that be said of this great body of pankers throughout this country?

"Why, Mr. Pt·esident, but a while ago when I put the question as to the discrimination against one of the large interests of the country by this biJJ, the only answer made w~>s that there was such a .solidarib of interest . that the lJenefits 'of one would be resultingly coJnpensatory fo'r the injury to the others. Solidarity: of interest which is affirmed. as respects the discriminating clause of this bill, is now denied in the face of this great testi­mony of commercial men from one end of this country to the other, men who have been dealing in these methods of busint:ss' and who know theit· utility to the commerce of the land. .

"Why, sir. there is hardly a cotton plant blooming in the Southern States to-day, there is not a leaf of a cotton plant smiling in tile wind. wbich ·does not trace its way iJack in some way by some connection, however remote, to the capital which is represented in tilese petitions. That capital will suffer as much as will the producer by the passage of this bill.

"The railroads, all the great interests of the country, act and react one upon the other. and you can not strike down the pro­ducing element of this country without striking down these great interests. When you find all these enlightened interests~ all th~se men and bodies who are insepaf,'ably conne~ted with the interests of the country, uniting on a purely commercial ques.: tion in unbroken opinion as to the commercial harm W'hich is to come from a given commercial restriction, it seems to me it is tr!vial to the last degree to say that their interest is not the interest of the producet· and that the producer car. be stricken down without their feeling it.

"These banks and bankers are the instrumentalities by which the producer makes and moves his crops. The great bank at New York loans its money to the bank elsewhere, wbo in turn loans it to a factor, who loans it to a planter. The factors in New Orleans loan money throughout the . Mississippi Yalley to their constituents to enable them to make their crops. The ability of one of these classes to pay the other depends largely upon the making of crops. The increased ability to pay de­pends upon what the crop will bring in the markets of the world.

"And yet we are told now, as to all of these great iuterel'ts; complex and involved. uniteq. as by the inevitable laws of nature itself, that these merchants do not belong to the producing class and have no right to a judgment on this great matter of com~ merce. That argument denies the only premise upon which the discrimination in the bill as to classes can possibly be justified. . '

" But Mr. President, we are not left to opinions in our own country. All over the world-in England, in Germany, iu Aus~ tria, in France. in Holland, in India, in Egypt, everywhere­this system of r~eward-delivery sales. which is an evolutio£' to meet the wants of modern trade, obtains and is practiced.

~11502 _CONGRESSIONAL REC.ORD-HOUSE.

u Yet: at this Jnte day in tills great body, representing th..a greatest commei'C1nl people in the world, the most acti're, the most enlightened. the moRt fertile in resources, the most nd­vanced, are we to be called upon to listen to the contention that a:n the bankers of the world. not only in this country but evel·y­where, the great business men of the world, all the exchangf>S of the worltl , without reference to nationality, nre a mere body of degr<.lded and prostituted gamblers? That is< the ineviUlble onteome from the arguments which han~· been addueed on this floor; arguments, in my judgment, in the domain of reason. as flJ"rnsy and as wnnting in logical foundation as it is possible for argumentation to be.

·• Xo. 1\Jr. President, when we come to commerci:tl qnestions and find the uni...-ersn1 consensus of commercial mnnkiu{l agree­ing to one thing, all tending to one thing, all supporting an evo­lution which has come. which is here, and which must Jt>main. I say agninst a1l this the opinion of nny one man here or there or somewhere else should weigh as nothing. If we-were tiealing with a theory, if there were here a: qnestion of nnturnl pllilos­opby or of chemistry, perhaps one mind with one ra·y of light could shed over the whole universe a splendor which aJl the world hRd not discovered. But when we come to tb~ · pntctical things of Jife, things that were not born but were· eYolved from commerce. because commerce is not a birth bnt an evJlntion. the onlv snfe rule is to listen to- commercial opinions. Comn1erce is a creation of the aggregate }Tractical common sense of man­kind. and nothing ever obtains universally in commerce that has not been founded UllOD the rock of things practical.

"It is a mistnke to say, as has been intimated here, thnt these bodies whose pE>titions I have presented are bodies not of pro­ducers. ·Why, the only body I am familiar with. l\fr. President, is the Cotton Exchange of New Orleans. That exchanf!e hns a great many producer . agents. or fnctors of planters as IDP.!llhPl'S. It hRs the rnyer and the seller, the plant~r. anG. the factor who represents f' vnst volume t planters. If you '.7el'e to-day to pnt an exhaust pump Ol' the cotton fields of the Routl1ern country and draw out of those trelds the money which hns gonE> from these commercial hodles and whose only hope of return jq- in the f1·nitlon and wise marketing;of those crops. yuu would <·H11se no greater destruction to sweep over those fertile and' la•lgblng fields than will. I mn afrnid, result from the passage of this bill.

"Now, Mr. President. having.l:t!d down the e general princi­plE's, I propose to look at the origin ot this system of future deliYery an· see whenee it cnme.

"Where did it tnke its birth? If we look bnck 4D years- and picture the con!Utions of things at thnt time. and then !·JOk nt the condition of things to-dny. sum up the whole mass of human acquisition existing now and comna.re it with the hnmnrr nc­q11isitions of thoRe days, we shall have a resum(l of the growth' of this future system.

"There is not a spRrk of electricity encircling the wor!d to­{]ay like a flash of li~btning which does not carry in its- womb the germ of an unde..-elopert future contract. There is not a rail­road train dashing over the land thnt ha~ not written upon its locomotiYe headlight the necessity of future contracts. There is not a steamship pJ()wing the vast deep with all the rn(Jidity of ocean transit which now obtains that does not at' evet y pu1r. of her .mighty engine repeat and repent again to the commerce of the whole civilized world the necessity of future contru(·ts.

""L found. Mr. President. this morning, in a pnper 1·ecently puh1ishe1l in New York on the death of an illnstrious !DHn. an estimllte of the com:eqnences which had come from the ('lectric cnhJe jofnin~ Europe.. and America. Tbe writer of t11at article. with mach lucidity, called attention to the fact tl1at it' was the intermingling and intercomruunkation between man nod mnn which bnd genf'rnted this closeness of union in commerclnl trRnsnctions out of which lw.C. developed this system which domi­nates the commercial world:to-day and which lies at the founda­tion of everv human business. There is not a civilized human being who rloes not bear liYing evirtence not only of the nE>cessity but the unh·ersn Jl ty of this prnctice.

"The vE>ry material from which the coat I wear was woven was probably honght on fntnre deliYery. The spinner who spnn it, in order to save lllmselt from loss, had sold it for fnture de­livery in order to be guaranteed a price whieh would he re­munerative. There is not n thing_ to-dny which enters ir•Lo the use or cons11mption of mankind which, under this modem and universal system of future delivery. is not coYered by contract in one way or the other to save loss which would otherwise rPt"ult

"The inedtable tendency• of modern ~ business is to draw peo­ple together. to make- lnteL·enmruuni<'atlon of man wHh mnn greater. The inevitahle result is equality. The future tms1ness is- tbe necest=:.nr:y result of the- struggle between men for Pl],ll:tlity. Before the- future business came into being.. the. lnrge. capitalists._ the mighty millionaires, of whom · the Senator from Mi.nrLes-ot1r

speaks~ llnd' to furnish the money wUb whi('h to cany-on com­merce. This future system. as· 1 hl-lve- said. is the resnlt ~lf the­

! struggle for equality. Before it en me Ia rge fortunes wt>r·e re· ·quired to carry and hold the product and snbmit to ~e great expense and risk which resulted from the hol rl ing tb ... ~n nntil taken by consumers, whereas now the ingenuity anu quir-lm£>ss of the minds of men, responding to the wants of modeen tr<Jde, have engendered this system of future deliYery, which nns put every man upon a foJ.:ing of equality with eve.ry other mi.ln. en­abling one without large capital to be the equal relativeiy of the man with grent cnpital.

"I can recall that in my boyhood, 1n the city of New Orleans, the great commercial houses. the great English hon~E>s with I1-1rge sums of' money, the agents of the Brown Bros. aud the agents of other great bankers, the Barir:g Bros .• did busi­ness there. When exchange wns to be drawn to pay for tot­too, the Baring Bros. or Brown Bros. b'lught it. If cotton exchange was taken to a bank, there wns danger of ~.: being · t•efused for fear the price of cotton might go down. The banker would say, 'If I tllke this bill except upon the credit of the drawer. a decline in the vrice of cotton in the future w111 make a la s.' So it resulted thnt the bu inel' was tr.ms­acted. largely upon the personal credit of these great houses,

, or on the credit of tbe cotton buyer, who was required to be a man of fortune.

"But now a mnn with an office and without much <'apHal is as good as the Brown Bros. He gets bis c.nble order ft·o .:1

the spinners be represents on the other' side to bUJ cotton. He bnys spot cotton and sells it for future delivel'y. He sell the 'fery exchange which be is to draw for future delirery. Ha must know the rate of exclulnge before he can make his price, and asks the bank to agree to take his exchange at a dl1te in the future. Every transaction connected with it is a future transaction. His possibility of deal1ng without capital is <·nosed by the fact that an insurance resulting from future deli'rery is put upon e•ery article that is. dealt with in the course of the transactions as they go a long.

"See what a re•olution it has worked in the Southern States. Formerly great masses of cotton would come to the city of New Orleans and be- stored. The buyer was gone. Dec-line was rapid. It required the actua.l pre.~ence of a man of means to bny this. property in order to bold it. because the buyer must submit himself~ to the risk of loss if cot torr declined.

"What is the situation now? Wl.Jy. the reccipts ns they come In aTe distributed aver~ the yeat·~ under this system of future contracts. Cotton is bought for future delivery and is tbns taken fcom the spot market. Tbe small consumer is ennbled to buy bec.:'luse he is not obliged to: pay cash, but can take ad­vantage of a transaction for · fuh1re- delh·ery. Thnt is the situa­tion. It has curtailed the profits of the millionaires. It has reduced the charge to the produaer.

•• Mr. President, I telegra11bed tlie secretary of the co-~on ex­change of the city of Sew Orleans to asce1·tain whnt were tho charge ol the middleman now as cumpured with such chur·ges formerly. I. ha"Tc a.. telegram in reply, in which the seeretury sa;r.s-;

"NEW ORLEANS, LA., July 22, 1892. "'Wbife· no regul:tr statement can be made. owln~ to lrn~)!ularity of

cbar~Ps. yon can safely state that under old system. Including cost of advaneing commission. on sales- of cotton. commission on purchases of supplies. insurancp t·ebntPs. etc .. cost on a bale of cotton avera~Pd fully $!i per bale. To-day millions of bales are sold direct from Interior, a\-oidirt1! ' many extra charges under the free-on-boar•d-dE'liVPr.v syRtem at !!5 nnd 50 cents a bale- under the- free·on-board :tnd future-dE-livery sys· tt>ms. which have built many flom·iRhing interiot• centerR. Many of the old Items of charge bave been abolished: these will be largely restored if present trade methods are interfered with. .,

" HE?\RY G. HESTER, Secretar11. " Ron. E. D. WHITE,

" Untterl State8 Se-nate:.

"Now, Ml". President r desire to have read :r statement of tbe results of thls busrness found in the same book which I lrave- read from this morning, commencing on page 103 and going down to the mmked· paragraph on pa;;e 104. T,tlat' states with such lucidity the &Yolotion of these economic problems that I incline- t() agree- with the dlstlngui hed Seru1tm· from 1\evada [M.r. Stewartl when he said this morning that he-- con­sidPJ'ed the· author one of the most lucid of. politlcnl economical writers.

" The Secretary: read :r.s-follows·: ' Three- indE>pend~nt economies exist !n tbe practice of buying and

selling for future detlvery. say- one; two: oT three months ahead. which could not be~ elreeted bY' IJ:nY'Ing grain on hand' and. taking present

de~~~~~t Buyers f{l.r consnmptton.-mllle~. exporters. and foreign pur­cbnsavs.-:can-~ through these. conv-ert a future unknown price into a kLo.wn price. so~ far as· is necessary·_ to enable them to base fnturP <'OD­t~:acts for. produc.tlon thereorr. Suppose- a mauufaetnrer of cotton goods or iron, feeding' Jris-own men; as-in1ifrectly Ire does~ and obliged to esti-

·-p• • 1914. ... . CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-. HOUSE. 11503 mate the rate at which be can af'l.'ord to take orders according to the rate at which be can l.Juy bread and provisions, it is plain tba~ be could 'figure' the rate at which be could take orders more closely if be could make certain his own future rate of expenditure on his supplies or food and provisions. This be could do by buying in August, deliver-able in Octobet·. ~

·• Second. Pt·ecisely as buying in a wide market equalizes prices over a wide area of country and enables millions of persons to pro­duce the same product in close competition with each other, so buy­ing for a considerable period of time, or ' going long' spreads and equalizes over a long period of time the changes in price which are made inevitable by natural causes, such as war, drought, flood, great or small harvests, and the like. Equalization of prices over time is as essen­tial to steady production as equalization of pl'ices over wide areas and numerous groups of producet·s and consumers. lf a raise of 20 cents per bushel in wheat is made necessary by an impending war between two grain-growing countries. and if one buyer knows it three months ahead, and buys his supply at an advance of 2 cents per bushel, hP. not only saves his own supply but be brings tbe market 2 points nearet• where it ought to be, and thus serves millions of producers and consumers who are interested in the raise being both early and gradual, not late and spasmodic.

"Thirdly. Such 'futures' originate with buyers. since if no one wished to buy ahead no one could sell futures. Each buyer pays a margin on his contract sufficient to secure the seller against loss in event of a fall in price and no delivery. The futures run in links from the consumer back to the producer. In such cases they cause a current of advance payments to set in from the dealers in the futures or pm·cbasers.

" This is in effect a movement of money in advance from the con­sumers. 01 their !.'epresentatives on the board of trade, to and among the pt·oducers. Farmet·s are thus enabled to get advances on their grain and plantErs on their cotton, whereby the harvesting is virtually done by the capital advanced by the consumer. This converts articles like cotton and wheat, for which prices are established by ' futures,' into • cash ' articles, or articles on which long advances are had, whereas cotton goods, furnitw·e, and manufactured articles are sold so invar·iably on long credits that even • cash' means 30 days after delivery.

":Mr. President, I also send to the desk, with a request that it be read, an excerpt from Conti·actual Limitations, which is a modern book, published in 1892. by an ex-chief justice of th~ Supreme Court of Indiana. It contains a statement of the problems involved in these modern methods of business which I think so clear that I desire to insert it in my remarks.

'' The Secretary read as follows: "Tr·ading in cotton futures was established in New York in 1870

and in New Orleans a few years later. As I am more familiar with the cotton trade than with the other trades in which transactions in futures are n;.ade, I will confine my remat·ks more especially to cotton futures. Contracts in cotton futut·es are made for the delivery in lots of 100 baleR during the month contracted for, such delivery to be at the seller's option upon five days' notice to the buyer. An order ou the warehouse for the cotton is tendered for every notice of delivery by the seller to the party to whom he has sold. It the buyer has also sold the col ton for deli very during the month for which he has re­ceived notice, it is customary for him to transfer the notice of de­livery and warehouse order to the party to whom he bas sold. and such transfers are made until 3 p. m. of the day of issuing the notice or until its receipt before that hour by a party who has bought but has not sold, or who desires to receive the cotton, and this party t·e­ceives the cot1on from the one who issued the notice and warehouse order and pays for it.

•· As those who have boug-ht and sold have no interest beyond the difference in the price at wbich they bought and the price at which they sold. it would be a useless expense to have the cost of delivery and receipt incurred for each change of ownership, wlien .:be pas~in~ of the warehouse order accomplishes every purpose and saves unneces­sary <'hat·ges. All immediate parties between the party who issues the notice and warehouse ordet· and the party who receives the cotton settle with each other the difference between the price of their re­spective contracts and the price at which the cotton is receivl•d and paid for. In the course of business it happens that many c•mtracts are settled before the month of their maturity and without actual delivery of cotton. Fot· instance, a met·chant may Rell for a plan1P.r a contmct for October delivery, and the next day be may nuy for a southern cotton buyer a contract for delivery the same mont!.!, and if these transactions are made with tbe same party on tne exchange, a direc t settlement would be made as between the two members of the exchange.

•· A merchant might sell to a party, who might sell to &~other, and this other might have pt·eviously sold to the first party, all the trans­actions- being for the same month's delivery. '!'his would .nake a settlement of contractA between the three and Is called a 'ring settle­ment.' 'l'b~se 'ring settlements' are purely matters of chance. They rna v be effected ver·y soon after the transaction, or they may not occur for ·months, and they may not occur at all. They do not in the s li~htest degree enter into the matter of the origill>tl trans9.ction, which is based upon the probability and intention of actual delivery of the cotton contracted for. In much or the legitimate business at present the transactions in futures m·e of great benefit to prodacers, manufacturers, mercl, ants, bankers. and the general public.

"About three-foortbs of the cotton CI'OP is usually marketed dm·ing the first four months of the season. Ii' such a large pt•oportion of the crop was forced upon tbe market for immediate sale, the effect would certainly be to unduly and greatly depress prices. By the sal~ of futures against consignments of actual cotton relief is often given to an overstocked mat·ket •md bet1er prices at·e secut·ed for tbe planter than would otherw1se be possible. If prices are satisfactory, tl1e plantei· can direct his merchant to sell futm·es against his crop before it is nctually ready to be marketed and thus seclll·e the be!l.eiit of a remunerative price which might not be obtained if the sale conld not be made until his crop had actually reached a market.

•• l\1r. President, having referred to the ge~eral laws of trade from which the future system was evolyed, I now provose to summarily restate some of the benefits which it confers on the cotton planter.

"It gives him a wider, safer, relatively higher, and less fluctu­ating market.

" It cheapens the rate at which the producer obtains the money to make his crop by enabling the factor and all who deal with the producer to sell by futures the product with which the producer is to pay them, thus diminishing their risk nne en­abling them to reduce their charges to the producer.

"It has diminished the charge of the middlemen by ·drawing the producer and consumer together, by enabling the buyeL' to sell for future delivery and buy the producer's crop to fill IJis future sale already made.

"It has multiplied buyers and brought them to the door of the consumer.

"It has multiplied investors by enabling them to buy actual cotton and sell futures against it at a small advance to cover interest and charges, thus making the investment safe. The investor, having sold for future deliYery against his purchase of actual cotton, is absolute!- safe, is submitted to no risk of fluctuation in the market, and therefore can afford to pay a better price to the producer,

"It has enabled the spinner to pay a better price to the con­sumer. He buys his cotton for consumption by means of a future contract, thus obviating the risk of a decline in the market. He sells the goods which be is to make from the cot­ton by a future contract, thus insuring a profit aud thus en­abling the spinner to do his business on a narrower because a safer margin of profit. It bas brought the cotton fields of the South nearer to the great centers of American and European consumption by diminishing the risk, thus reducing the differ­ence in price which formerly existed between cotton in the field of the producer and that cotton at the door of the con­sumer.

"It has relieYed banking capital, thus leaving more money to assist the planter in making his crop.

•· All these things, Mr. President, are the necessary result­ants of the first proposition, which is that the system of selling cotton for future delivery gives the producer u wider, safer, relatively higher, and less fluctuating market. If this prorlosi­tion be true all the others necessarily follow.

"Now let me show the existence of these benefits by au ex­amination of the state of the cotton trade before and after the future period, so · that by a comparison between the two periods the mind may be able to determine, not by abstract reasoning, but by the touchstone of absolute and undeniable fact, whether the benefits which I have stated have or have not resulted.

"In the domain of theory minds may differ. The moment we advance an abstraction, one mind takes one view and the other takes another, and the union of the two miuds becomes impossible because of the divergent premises or the con­tradictory deductions which the minds make.

"But when we enter the domain of absolute and unchallenge­able fact, then the only question which remains· is first to ascertain the truth and then follow it. By that touchstoue I hope to demonstrate that this system has been a merciful blessing to the cotton planter of the southern country Hnd to the cotton trade, and that its destruction will entail upon thDt people in loss of price and incidental sacrifices a sum equal to, it may be, $100,000,000.

"I shall say nothing of the grain trade. There are Sf>nators who are more familiar than I · am with the movements ancl operations of grain. I may say, however, that the theory and opinions of all the grain brokers, all the elevator men, all the bankers who advance on its exchange and bills of lading, ilnd all of the people who deal in grain. I think almost without serious exception, adhere to the promises stated in the book which has just been read.

"In Minneapolis, the very center of the grain traue, as will be seen, all the organized commercial bodies have filed their memorials here against this bilL While the distinguished Senator from Minnesota was good enough to say to me that he thought they bad modified their opinion in consequence of a modffication in the bill, I think when it is known what au illusory hope that modification holds out, that their protests will apply. But we are not wanting in this record indubitable evidence that the principles which I assert, and which the theoretical writers and all the practical men assert, apply to grain.

" I find in the testimony of Mr. Romer, taken before the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, the following:

"Mr. ROMER. I will say, if I am allowPd, tbat another imnortant miller iu the country, in an interview with myself on the Prodnce Exchange of New York, said be was heartily in favor of tilis bill. • Why,' said I, in my simplicity of heart, ' this bill will be au injul·y to the farmer; this bill will narrow tbe mat·kets and give him no opportunity to sell to the best advantage.' He said, • I am not legislat-

504 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 1~

-in"' fo1· '~the "fa:rmel', 1 m:m 'legiSlating '101' ' the m.lller; rthe .fa"lllD.er will tal•e care of himself.' .

" Rcnutor \\AS HBURN. That man mnRt bave been fr<?m ,New "York. " M 1·. ROIIfE R. Tbat was -ex-Gov. Stanard, of St. Louts, ~lo. He is a

r epntuble mitlar. ·• 'f hey Ml.Dt to be the buyers and ·witbout competition-the buyers

a t tllcir own price. " u1r. President, I think the testimony here makes. it .Pe:­

.fectly clear, absolut-ely clear-and I wnnt to call attention to 1t ,very deHberntely Hnd b a Ye it weighed-that wbils~ there may be diYergence among millers, as there undoubtedly 1s, from ,thp earnPst and zealous and di interested attitude taken by the Sena tor from 1\Iinne ota on this floor, yet the~e ~re ?ther millers who consider thnt the necessary effect of th1s bill Wlll be to rednce the price of the product made by -the farmf>r and pnt ·him in the hnnds of and at the mercy of the miller. Mr. Pillsbury. tlle gentlenum to whom I haYe already referrea, and :who~ e testimony i in this record, is a part owner of .a '?1st milling estnblishment. He testifies tha~ they haYe, I th~nk. :150 elevntors. I may be mistaken in stating th~ numb~r. No~ let me read his testimony, and I im·itt; nttention t? ~~ ~.his testimony w;1s taken before the Committee on Agncu.ture of the House of nepresenutiYeS:

"Qnestion: Mr. Loxo. Well. formerly when millel'~ w:ere able to carrv this wlH•at and flour and tbPir money lnvestt>!l m 1t they tpPn c1mt:gf'd a pt·ofit sufficient to cover the intE'TeRt. on tbe1r money and that went ont to thP mar·ket. of the world and paid the .expenses., etc., and profits back to tbe mill ma.n.

" 'l'hat is the question. "AnswPr: Mr PlLJ . SR£TnY. The 'Universal rule os c.>d to be that tbc.>

miller !!"enPrall:v 'accumulated wheat. flav. wbc.>n the farmNs were putting in tbl'lt· l'nrplus. rapidlv. The unl~erl"al rule. almos t. nsPd to be ~bat -you could hny the wheat che:rper nt fuat time t han a~ any otb£>1' t1me. and von conld make a fairf'r proflt on the.> actual boldmg of the ':'b <'at t1an · vou could at such times when these movements of the f1umers WPre if>SS.

· "Let me repeat it. "You ·could buy the wheat cheaper at that time than at any other

time.

"l\Ir. President, the system ·of futures was introCurPd_ in oruer to Dre\'ent purchasers 'from tnking ttdnmtnge of the tnne 1

wben the fn rmer wns shipping rapidly, bu;ving low. 1'1n1l then 1

selling it afterwards for a lrtrge pro1lt. After the sy_, tem ~f l futures carne in, when this-vast surplus was accumul::Itmg. tbrs • was pre>ented. Not only the rich mnn, but t?e poor mn~. could buy for futnre delivery without any r1 k whnte\-er. ·JCyery contract so made neces arily reliev~s the pr•essure on tJ;Ie mnrket and gives the prodncer a better prwe . .Mr. Pillsbury, m what I ..have just .quoted, admits .this.

"But he goes further- 1

"Question : Mt·. Loxo. Wen. now. tbP.n: as it staBds now tlle .. ~iller can not ca rry the wheat and flotiT. h~anse there is a _lar~e ttsl, .nt­tach<> d to it in CODRf'QUf'DCe Of Wind RPlllDg. Thf'n, jf thiS WIDd selh_ng bn s tile l"trt>ngtb t hat :vou sa:v H baR. It is manifest that it has a vreJD­dicial Influence against the raiset· of wheat.

"l\Iark you. the question is inconsequential. The answer to tile preYio'us question hnd been that it was prejndidal to the miller of wheat, nnd the question snys 'prejudicial to the 1

raiser.' Now, mark the answer: "Mr. ru.L-sBUR\:.. Yes. sir: against the raiser of wheat­" Here comes the gist of the answer-

" and the miller before-" Thnt is. before the system ·of 'futures •-

.. could genemll:v use his good jndf!ID<>nt nod make money ·by fbe r_lse of wheat. I would state a fact. which perhaps would b<>. a. sur:ortsf' to moHt of :vom· committee, that I have no doubt the mtllmg IDI_erests . in t'h is countrv. tal< t>n a s a wholE', in thE' Ia t 10 years have pard !he I

farmer mot·e money for wheat than they have gotten out of him. .That is tbe fact tbrougb "the Northwest.

" :Mr. President, this bill proceeds upon the theory tbnt the farmer hns not ~ot his 'full money; thnt he has not been11aid the value of h:s product. Here is a statement thnt rmder tbis sys­tem during the pa~t 10 years the .millers hRYe :beeu pa·ying the farmer more for whea:t than they, 1Jle .mlllers, have obtained for it.

"Let n1e continue fue citation: "I think I can count-" Snys ~.r:. Pill ·bnry-

" on tbe fing<> rs of mv two hnnds tbe 150 milling firms, say 10 Yf>llrs a g-o in our · part of tbe world; and I think that ts tnte all over the ccunt rv that tlwre are only a few mill f' l'S WhO. by U~ing the h.igbf'!':t . triumph's of miJnng and the bef;t executive ability nnd pmdurinl! the bes t b1·and of flour. have been nble to make anything. T bl" immpn"" competition and capacity of the mills of this cormtry !Jas dou!lled thrPe times t ilE> amount of ftonr they can mnke. UJ?d 1t IS got t·tgbt down th e taR few years to ·the Qoe~tron of the SUI'Vtvnl of the fitt<>st; but thNf' was a time whPn tbe:v could alwa.vs run on a proflt. :vear·s a.c:o. by bu.ving wheat in th£> fall. sav on an avet·a~e of . 1 ~ bus~el: and we , W<'re almo t sure to make a good profit by carrying 1t .nnt1I the time when the !'tate of the ronds. etc.. prevented tbe deliveries ·being so larf!e I lool{ on Rhort selling as being the greatest impediment to tbe ptoli of milling business in that way.

•• Tlla1: .fs just ~tt. Mr. Pre~ idelft. Here, 'if human language cnn state it, is -an ex:press admission that before tlle !'ystem of ftl­tures the wa:- the millers did their busine s was when the -snr­·plus rwas 'coming in from the crop in hHge quautitie.s. t l.my it cheap, and when the roads· got bad and the farmer's wheat eouJu not come in, to sell it high. If the language doe not say that, what does it say?

•• Does not that exactly tally with my Stntl.'ment of the 'fntnre' ·system? The • future' system hns de troyed t.hnt. Why? Beca~"~e a mnn looking forward to the cowing of those muddy roads and knowing that the muddy roads are to come, bas said to the farmer, 'Do not sell your whent now at a low price; I will agree to pay you a ruonth hence, when the ronds ·are muddy, u -higher price; just IPt me take it.' So competition ·has come in; ·and instead of buying wheat cheap when wheat wns abundant nnd selling it high later on, the prices have been equalized.

"I do not know whether that is a fad in whent or not. for :r ha Ye no experience and I do not propose to discuss it; but I say when, on the face of this testimony. I find tlle stateweut tc be tha.t that is the case.J haYe the right to n~snme that l\fr. Pillsbury knows a great deal more about wheat thnn I do. and to accept hls declaration of what were the conReqnences before the 'future' system. and to ee >ery plninly what is the conse­·quence naw and thus to keenly nrJ lred;lte the great . olicitu<le of .i\lr. Pinsbury for the p1·oducers .of the country and his desire that their g··aJn should sell bio-h.

•• Now, Mr. Pre ident. let me re¥iew the facts as to cotton. But before I do that I desire to end up and ha \' 3 re11d a lis t of tele­"Tams. I haYe compiled the telegrams nlllnto one. Tbe phrn~e­ology of this one telegram i not liternlly the pbraReology of the wnny whkh J: ba,·e received. but they were all substantially the same, and I have put the signatures under one in order to aYoid duplica tion. ~·The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Turpie in the cbair). The paper

referred to will be rea d.. "The Secretary rend .as follows:

" COO.'TO~ FACTORS OF NEW ORLEANS.

"To Ron. E. D. WIITrE, " NEW ORLEANs, LA., Jtav tB, 1"892.

"United States S nat-e, lVashirrgto~ D. C.: "We ask your efforts to defC'at Hatch antioption bill. lts passage will

lower prices, i.njure planting interests, and badty aliect col:ton business generally.

"Stewart Bros. & Co.; ·Geo. W. Sentell & Co.; Hyman. Hiller & Co.; Simon E. Marx; J. f.rt>i.ihan & Co .. Ra you Sam, La.: Lehman, t~;>r·n & Co. : .Fohn ~1. l'a t·krr & C'o. ; R. M. Wamsley & Co. ; Pugh & Co. ; T'belps & ·co. ; 'l'ho . L. Ah·PJ' : Lev.v BTos. ; Uouet1: Day & Co. (Ltd.) ; H. Abmham & Son J. WE>IR & Co.; Ba tdwin & I'utnam.; Bickham • Moore ; w. B. Tbomp. on ; Chas. Cha1fe.

.. Mr. WHITE. l\Ir. President, most of the mtme found in that telegram n!'e the names not of cotton buyers. but of cotton sellers. Th·ey are the n nmes of the great body of the c·o~on factors o.f ~ew Orleans who carry almost the entire crop of the H issippi Yalley.

"Mr. GEorum. There is an impoxtant name .mi sing from that list.

.. Alr. WHITE. Whose name? "Mr. GEORGE. Richardson & 1\Iay. " Mr. WElTE. I send up a telegram from 1\fr. May, of Rich­

ardson -& l\lay. • l\Ir. ·GEORGE. I noticed the absence of tbe nnme. "The PRESlDING OFFICER. The paper referred to will be 1..-ead. " The Secretary read as follows:

" ITeleg1 am.] " NEW ORLEANS, LA., July 1 , 1891! .

" E. D. WHITE, Unitet1 StatC8 Senate: ·• I believe the pas age or the antioption IIatch b\11 will <'lo i ncalculablo

ilama"'e to t.bc cotton trade and cotton planti.ng in the Unitl'd States, .a:nd l'invoke _yonr earnest efforts "to defeat it.

"A. H. MAY.

".Mr. WHITE • .Mr. Pre...~clent, some Sena.tors )Jere know Jler­sonally Mr. John T. Hardie, of the city of ~e\v Orleans. unn llls great business experience. I had a telegram to tile same etrect from him.

"I repent, ·that these telegrams are not from cotton bn;vers, but thf'y are from cotton sellers; and there does not lh.·e n hody <if more enlightened and honorl.lb1e merchants thnn those who e names are fonnd upon that list. l\lnny of them ha ,.e been in the cotton industry from its infancy. :tnd in a II it" tria Is ~ nd tribulations. They .h:we followed it througl1 it nll. and tlJey u.re doing it to-dny, ns tbey hn ve nlways done, bouestly nnd wisPiy.

"1 desire to say another thing. Among that body of high­minded and enlightened gentlemen afld t1l'ogre. she merchants, wbo have been in this business for all these yenrs. there m·e. found none of these great nggregations of wenlth to whi-ch the distinguished Senator from .Minnesota referred. There is hon·

1914. CONGRESSIONAL .RECORD--HOUSE. 11505 est competency among them, and many are large cotton plnnters. "'Mr. Wi:nTE. Now, what is the claim whieh those . who de-·

"I have received. beside these, a telegram. which I desire fend future snles advance? The clnim is this: That as in a few read, from the dealers in rice and sugar and produce in the months the whole cotton crop was precipitated upon the market, city of New Orleans. this created a glut in the market and put the producer largely

"The PRESIDING OFFICER. The paper referred to will be read. ~ at the mercy of the buyer. The crop either had to be sold or "The Secretary read as follows: to be stored. If the buyer was not there to tnke that crop. then

"NEw ORLEANS, LA., Julv 19, 1892. there was this vast mass of receipts, and of course there was a "H.'m. E. D. WHITE, lVashinoton: serious decline in the market.

"We, the undersignf'd dealers in rice, sugar, and produce, consider the '·Our total spinning capacity in this country repre~~nts a antioption b~ll. as detrimei_Jtal to business, and feel that its passage little under a third of our crop--somewhere between a third ·md would work ID1UI"Y to our mterests. f . h. . . . , '

" Bioom & Son, LPfelrere &. Marionneau. Mi !ten berg-er & a om t I Will not be accurn te m thiS sta teruent. The bal:mce Flower, 0. Do~·le & Co., John W. Coyle, B. W. Seago, of the crop was fo exportation, and the agents of the great J. A. Harral, Elmer & Zeebrook, G. Schwartz. Erglish buyers and consumers were there; and if they did not

" Mr. WHITE. I will not encumber the RECORD bv more tele- buy, the price went down. grams. I take it for granted that if a man wanted an opinion ·· Under the system of' futures' has this evil Increased or hns as to the operation of this bill upon cotton he could not go to it diminished? It should have increased largely, bet·ause before a more enlightened source for the information than to the!':e gen- the future period the crops came in more slowly thnn they do tlemen-information coming, as I said just now, from sellers of now. Why? In the first place, the gre:tter rmrt of the cotton cotton; information coming from men who are golely intere<>ted crop~ in the South in the olden times was made by shn-e labor, that it should bring as high a price as possible; information and 1f the price was not satisfactory the large planters were able coming from men \vho ha v·e watched the~e moYemeuts through to hold their crops for an ndnmce. In the second place, a gre~t all these years with a solicitude born of the keenest interest, be- part of the cotton was grown on the alluvial rands along the cause they are always im-olved in it. When that is the case. streams. and the only exit to the markets of the world was the when the unh·ersal opinion of the commercial world sustains rising of the water in those streams. All these things and others them, am I to be told that we are to take the opinion on the of less importance tended at that time to retard somevhat the subject of men who ha,·e bad no experiE:'n('e whnte'"er? incoming of the crop of cotton. Despite that faet, in the first

''But let me now come to figures. I send to the reporter and months of the season. before future dealing came In vogue. when desire to hHve incorporated in my remarks-! will not have it the cotton came in there was always, unless there was some ab­read.:_a table.showing the annual crop. the exports, and United normal condition, whieh can easily be explHined, a serious States consumption of cotton since 18-!1, which is brought down depression in the market, which put the producer absolutely at to 1891. the mercy of the consumer. Who was to take it but the con-

" The table referred to is as follows: sumer? He availed of his advantages and fixed the price. " [From Cotton Facts, by A. B. Shepperson.] "As this evJI gi·ew, the system of futures was devised, and

deYised for what purpose'? De\"ised for the purpose of bridging "Statement of mwual erops~o~;~~r~~~~l~sB:Iited States consttmption of O'\'"er this glut, of preventing this cotton whicl. eame from l>eing

pushed upon the market. thus allowing it to be bought by a man who could not pay for it at once but who could do so two or thr·ee or four months off, thus necessarily spreading the large receipts over a longer period instead of throwing them all upon the market and causing them to be sold for the prices the con­sumer was then willing to ·give. ·

Export3. Hom:} consumption.

To tat Season. crop. . Takings To Great To Conti- To tat Britain. nent. exports. of north-

ern mills.

1841-1842 ••••.. 1,684,000 936,000 529,000 1,465,000 268,()(1() 1842-1843 ••••.. 2,379,000 1,470,000 540,000 2,010,000 325,000 1843-I844 ••••.. 2,030,000 1,202,000 427,000 1,629,000 347,000 1844-1845 •••••. 2,394,000 1,439,000 645,000 2,084,000 339,000 1845-1846 ••••.. 2, lfO,OOO 1,102,000 56;;,000 1,667,000 423,000 184.6-1847 ...... 1, 779,000 831,000 410,000 1,241,000 428,000 1847-1848 •• -- •• 2,423,000 1,324,000 534,000 1,85S,OOO 532,000 1848-1849 ••••.. 2,840,000 1,538,000 690,000 2,228,000 51~,000 1849-18W ••••.. 2,204,000 1,107,000 483,000 I,590,000 4AA,OOO 1800-1851 •••••• 2,415,000 1,4I8,000 571,000 I,9Wl,COO 404,000 1851-1852 •••••• 3,126,000 1,6!}9,000 771',000 2,44l,OOO 588,000 1852-1~3 ••••.• 3,4I6,000 1, 737,000 791,000 '2,.'"28,000 6::0,000 1853-1!t'i4 ••••.• 3,075,000 1,604,000 715,000 2,319,000 592,000 18.S4-1855 ••• - .. 2,983,000 1,5.50,000 694,000 2,244,000 571,000 1855-IR.'\6 .•••.. 3, 66.'i,OOO 1,921,000 1,0.'34,000 2,955,000 633,000 1856-1~57 •••••• 3,094,000 1,429,600 824,000 2,253,000 666,000 1857-13.'18 ••••.• 3,257,000 1,811',000 780,000 2,590,000 452,000 1858-1S.'i9 ••••. . 4,019,000 2,019,000 1,002,000 3,021,000 760,000 1859-18&1 •••••. 4,861,000 2,669,000 1,105,000 3, 774,000 793,000 1860-H~fil.. _ •.. 3,849,000 2,175,000 952,000 3,127,000 6.50,000 1861-1R65 2 ••••• ........... ·i;w;ooo· .. .. 2ro:&x> . i;555;iiil· · ··54i;ooo· 186.'i-1866 •••••. 2, 278,000 1866-1Rf\7 •••••• 2,233,000 1,216,000 341,too 1,5 7,000 573,000 1867-1863 •••••• 2,599,000 1,228,000 428,000 1,6!'6,000 800,000 1868-1811!1 ...... 2,434,000 939,000 458,000 1,447,000 R22,000 1869-lq7o ••• _ .. 3,114,000 1,471) ,000 704,000 2,179,000 777,000 1870--1871 ••••.• 4,347,000 2,36'3,000 800,000 3, 1fl8,000 1,072,000 1871-1872 •••••. 2,974,000 1,474,000 483,000 1,9:;7,000 977,000 1872-1R73 •••••. 3,874,000 1,920,000 756,000 2,676,000 1,063,000 1873-1874 ...... 4,130,000 1,8!"2,000 959,000 2,811,000 1,192,000 1874-1875 •••••. 3,831,000 1,8.1.1,000 841,000 2,674,000 1,071,000 18711-1876 ••••.. 4,632,000 2,005,000 1,227, 000 3,232,000 1,220,000 187!\-1877 ••••.. 4,474,000 1,994,000 1,034,000 3,028,000 1,302,000 1877-IR78 ••••.. 4, 774,000 2,047,000 I,309,000 3,3.'i6,000 1,345,000 1878-1879 ...... 5,074,000 2,0.';3,000 1,413,000 3,465,000 1,375,000 1879-18 0 ••••.. b, 761,000 2,554,000 1,310,000 3,834,000 1,.~7-1,000

1880-J SQL ..... 6,60n,ooo 2,832,000 I, 733,000 4,fi6.'i,CJOO 1, 713,000 1881-1&'-12 ••••.. 5,456,000 2,2!>5,000 1,256,000 3,551,000 1,677,000 1882-1AA3 ...... 6,950,000 2,8Sii,OOO 1,83~,000 4 , 7?4,000 1,7!'fi,OOO 1883-1834 ••••.• 5, 713,000 2,435,000 1,432,000 3,917,000 1,537,000 1884-1 8~!) ...... 5,700,000 2,425,000 1 1,495,000 3,920,000 1,437,000 1885--1&.<!6 •••••• 6,575,000 2,56.'i,OOO 4 1, 771,000 4,336,000 1,781,000 1886-18-q7 •••••. 6,499,000 2, 704,000 :01,741,000 4,445,000 1,687,COO 1837-188.~ ••••.. 7,047,000 2,814,000 6 1,813,000 4,627,000 1,805,000 1833-18~9 ...... 6,939,000 2,810.000 7 1,926,000 4, TJ6,000 1,790,000 1889-lSQO •••••• 7,297,000 2,854,000 s 2,052,000 4,91'16,000 1,780,0()0 1390-1891. •• --. 8,674,000 3,345,000 t 2,446,000 ii, 791,000 2,027,000

1 No estmtatc. 2 Civil War-no record of cotton move­

ment.

~ lnrluding 40,774 to MeXIco. • Including 33,203 to Mexico. ?Including 41,259 to Mexico. a Including 2&,414 to Mexico. 5 Including 31,443 to Mexico.

3lncluoing 28,028 to Mexico. • Including ~5 to Mexico.

Tak. of~~ ern milli

and burned.

(I) (1) (1) (1) (1) (1) 75,000

112,000 107,000

60,000 111,000 1::3,000 14.5 000 135:000 138,000 154,000 143,000 167,000 186,000 I93,000

... i27;ooo 150,000 168,000 173,000 80,000 91,000

120,000 138,000 128,000 130,000 134,000 127,000 151,000 1118,000 ~Z3,000 230,000 287,000 313,000 346,000 :us,ooo 385,000 422,000 459,000 485,000 5.'i0,000 620,000

"Mr. GEORGE. Will the Senator allow me to ask him a question for information?

" Mr. WHrTE. Certainly. "I\Ir. GEORGE. I understand the position of the Senator from

Louisiana with reference to the cotton trade to be. that now, owing to the increased facilities for marketing the cotton crop, railroads and all that sort of thing, contrary to the fact as it existed many years ago, when a very large amount of cotton was precipitated into the New Orleans market. much more than was needed then by the consumers--am I right that fan

"l\lr. WHITE. I say the receipts are htrger now than they were then. I did not enter into that question. I spoke of the price of cotton.

"l\lr. GEORGE. Then I understand the Senator to sav-and I w~nt to understand him and I want him to understand me, be­cause I know there nre mnny difficulties about •this thing-! understand the Senator to say that but for the • future • system of dealings this cotton would be thrown upon the markE-t then and there in its glutted state, and there would be a great fall in the price. Is that right?

.. Mr. WHITE. I was not saying that when the Senator was kind enough to interrupt me. I bad advanced thnt as a theory in my argument before, and I \;as proceeding to demonstrnte us a fact that it w11s so. I am not engaged now in the statement of theoretical problems. I was endeavoring to put my tlleories to the touchstone of fact by showing that suc:h was and is the case.

"Mr. GEORGE. Very well. Then I understand the Senator to change his position a little from the wny I understood llim. for now he states the proposition a little differently, that the records of the commercial exchanges and the cotton exchange!' demon­strate the fact that when this cotton gets into New Orleans or other markets in the fall in this glutted state, the result is that there is a fall in the price?

"Mr. WHITE. Always. '' l\Ir. GEORGE. Let me go on. Now, I understand the Senator

to say that the 'futtire' sales or the 'future' system will coun­teract that. but it does not now operate in that way owing to the 'future' system. Is that so?

" Mr. WHITE. Oh, no; I did not say that. I said not to fthe same extent.

" Mr. GEORGE. Very well. It lessens it,. then? " :Mr. WHITE. It lessens. it seriously.

):

-11506 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. ... ~·- .. JULY · l~

"1\fr. GEORGE. Let us understand this. What prevents under this bill every single bale of cotton that reaches New Orleans or any other port in these crowded months, these months of surfeit, bei11g sold for future delivery?

"Mr. WHITE. I beg the Senator's pardon. He 1s now making au argument, and not asking a question.

" Mr. GEORGE. I am asking a question. "Mr. WHITE. No; that is making an argument. I was not

discussing whether it could be done under this bill. I am simply now demonstrating the fact that the system of 'futures' had prevented the consequences of overreceipts, and in the comse of my argument, if the Senator will allow me, I intend to discuss the matter he is speaking of.

"1\Ir. GEORGE. I am very much obliged to the Senator for his courtesy; but this is a matter in which my constituents feel a great interest, and I do not want to make a mistake about it. I thought that the Senator bad asserted a proposition and J. theory which could not be made to fit the facts of the case. If, now, the Senator, who bas been so very courteous to me as to allow me to interrupt him so far, thinks I am trespassing and t~1t he will answer this matter further on, then I hnve only to say that I thank him for his courtesy so far, and that if my life and health are spared I shall try some time during this debate to answer any position which he may take which goes to show that the price of this large amount of cotton in New Orleans or in the other market places of this country is not affected by the future sales, except deleteriously.

"Mr. WHITE. Mr. President, in illustrntion of what I was saying, I hold in my band a table. I will comment upon the table before asking to have it printed with my remarks. I have tabulated the receipts of cotton at the ports of this country from 1870-71 down to 18!:11-92. The figures are startling. From Sep­tember 1 to December 31 there were reeeh·ed in 1870-71, 1,642,-000 bales of cotton. There were received in 1871-72, 1,392,000 bales.

"1\fr. GEORGE. At all the ports? "Mr. WHITE. At all the ports. Now, I want to call attention

to these figures. I shall not read the whole list, but the table will speak for itself in the RECORD as part of my remarks.

"In 1889-90 there was recehed before the 31st day of Decem­bers 4,270,000 bales. In 1870-71 the amount was 1,642,000 bales, and it is but little over 2.000.000 bales, as a rule. runnh)g down the list, until we get to 1878-70. Then it was 2.651,000 bales.

"Mr. GEoRGE. Let me ask the Senator right there if he has the total for each year, so as to show the proportion?

"Mr. WHITE. I have already offered as part of my remarks such a statement.

"Mr. GEORGE. '.rhe Senator does not understand me. The sub­ject will be more understandable if tlle table is inserted.

"Mr. WHITE. If the Senator will allow me, I am dealing with statistics, and if he does not let me proceed with an orderly statement be will confuse me.

"Mr. GEoRGE. r" do not wish to interfere with the Senator: "Mr. WHITE. In making a statistical statement, without in­

tending to be discourteous, I should prefer not to be inter­rupted.

"Mr. GEOR!iE. I beg pardon of t.he Senator. I will not inter­rupt him again.

" Mr. WHITE. We had not reached a higher figure than 2,600,-000 in 1876-77; in 1891-92 the total receipts up to the 31st day of December were 4,783,000 bales-nearly 5.000.000 bales.

"Now, just make the comparison. In 1870-71 there were 1,642.000 bales; in 1801-92, 4,783.000-nearly 5,000,000 bales.

"The tat?le referred to is as follows: "Table showi11q tlle irwrease in the quar1tity of cotton marketed during

the first fottr months of the season si11ce 18"10.

Cotton re- Receipts at ceived at the ports

Date of arrival at the

Eeasonof- the ports Sept. 1 to for entire Dec. 31. season.

ports of one-half oitbe season's receipts.

Bales. 1870-1871. ................. -................ ...... 1,642,000 1871-1 72 ................................. -....... 1,392,000 1 72-1 73......................................... 1,G84,000 1 72- 1f<74......................................... 1,85 ,000 1 74-1875 ........... -............................. ?,100,000 1871:- K76 • ........... _ ............ _............... 2,340,000 1 7•i-llr.7 .... ............ ...... ... _....... ........ 2,001,000 1871-l 7 ........................ -... --........... 2,39 ,000 187 1S79 ........ .. ......... _ ......... -.... ....... 2,6'>1,000 1819-1880. ........................................ 3,13,.,000 l8!;C'-U!8L .............. ~ ............. _........... 3,417,000 18!;1-1 2......................................... 3,247, 000 18/H-1~......................................... 3,530,000

Bales. 3,958,000 Jan. 17 2 732 000 Dec. :;:g 3; 595; OOJ Jan. 8 3, 7!i4,ooa Jan. 1 3, 509, 000 Dec. 16 4,195,000 Dec. 23 4,035,000 Dec. 8 4,334,00:1 Dec; 22 4,4iil,OOO Dec. 16 5,027,000 Dec. 10 5, 87~. 000 Dec. 16 4,r. ~.ooo Dec: 3 6, 010,000 Dec. 18

"Table 11h01oing t1te i1wrease ill t1ze quantity of cotton ma,-ketrtl dtrrina tile first tom· 111011lhs of the season since 18i0-Continued.

Season of-~~f~~ ~t Receipts at the port'J ?a: ln~~~ Sept. I to season.

Date or arriv;U at the

ports of one-hal f

o1 the season's receipt'>.

1883-1884 • ....•••.• ••••••••.•••.••.••••••••••••• -. 1884-1885 ........................................ . 1885-1886 ................................ _ .. _, ... . 1886--1887 ........................................ . 1887-1888 ........................................ . 1888-1&89 . ................ - ..................... .. 1889-1890 •••• ,.,, __ .,,_,,,,.,,,,.,.,,.,,,.,_,,,,,, 1890-1891. •••• - ....................... - .......... . 1891-1 92 ..... - ••••••••••••••••••••••••••.••..••••

Dec. 31.

Bales. 3,494,000 3,642, 000 3,572,000 3, 732,000 4,011,000 3, 714,000 4,270,000 4,430,000 4, 783,000

Bales. 4,800,000 Nov. 30 4, 774,000 Nov. 2G 5, 3-58,000 Dec. 4 5,30l,OOO Dec. 2 5,61~,000 N'ov. 23 5,547,000 Dec. 5 5,856,000 Kov. 26 6, 979,000 Dec. 8

17,150,000 tDec. 1

1 Estimated on basi;; 0 1 receipts to July 15, 1892.

"A comparison with 20 years ago show~ that the receipts at the port for tb~ four months ending December 31, 18!)1, were nearly three and a half tlmes larger than for the cones8onding period of 1871 and ex­ceeded the receipts of 1871 by 3,391, 00 bales. The cotton 'marketed during the first four months of the season of 1891-92 exceeded the entire crop pL·ocluced in any season previous to that of 1878-7!>. 1t wlll also be observed that while the date of arrival at the ports of one-half of ~be season's receipts was in 1871 on January 17, tbe date of such arnval of recent years bas been from November 23 to December 3 ot· about six or seven weeks earlier. '

"1\fr. WHITE. This table also shows the date of .the receipt ot one-half the crop. On it I find this instructive statement: One­half of the total crop in 1870-71 had arrived by January 17; in 1872-73, January 8; in 1873-74, January 1, and now and then one-half the crop arrived at various days in December. In 1888-80, by December 5 one-half of the total crop had arrived in the city of New Orleans and other ports. In the following year, 1890-91, one-half of the total crop had arrived by Decem­ber 8. In 18!11-92 the crop is estin1ated, because we can not make it complete, and it is estimated on the basis of receipts up to July 15.

"This shows· the great pressure of receipts on the market; this shows how the cotton pours in now at an early day. Who is to buy tllis cotton? If all this cotton is precipitated npon the market and if it had required actual buyers to be then and there ready to take it up for immediate delivery, why would not the producers have been at the mercy of the cous11mers? How can I show tllat this f:ystem of futures produced the result of obviating the consequences of the glut by selling not only to those 'vanting for the present but also to those requiring it for the future or more remote periods? I think I can do so not only by reasoning but also by facts--

"1\lr. BUTLER. May I interrupt the Senator a moment, be­cause I want to get at the real facts, and I know he does?

" Mr. WHIT:Ji:. Certainly. "M:r. BuTLER. Is it not a fact that a great deal of tlle cotton

which the Senator says goes into all the ports of the United States at certain dates has been already bought from the producers?

"Mr. WHITE. Ye ·, sir; of course. "1\Ir. BuTLER. The farmer has sold it? "Mr. WHITE. There is no doubt about that. "1\Ir. BuTLER. So that wh•en the argument is made that tlutt

has any effect upon the producer, I submit to the Senator if ·'t were true, and if the statement which I have just made be true, his argument falls to the ground.

"l\1r. WHITE. On the contrary, it confirms my argument. If the Senator understands-and I was coming to that as an entire answer to the Senator from Mississippi [Mr. George]-it is just a confirmation of my argument ' strong as proofs of Holy Writ.' I will demonstrate it if the Senator will have a little patience.

"Mr. BUTLER. I am patient. "Mr. WHITE. I say the effect of the arrival of all thls cotton

was necessarily to reduce the price. What else could it do? It always has done it, and does it with every product. I have shown the vast increase of the receipts for a given time in the modern period over the old period, resulting from modern facilities. Now I propose to make a compari on showinoo how much cotton fell before the 'future' period. at the time of large receipts of the crop, and how much it fell after the 'future' period. If I find that after the 'future' period the decline in cotton from the pressure of receipts was less than it w~s before the 'future' period, although the receipts have been largely increased, do I not make a demonstration that cnn not be answered? The :tact that there was a decline in both periods

1914. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 11507 is not gainsaid, the question is, In which period has there beeu the least decline?

"I hold in my band an exhibit of the dates of the lowest prices for cotton in New York during each season from 1850-51 to 1860-61-that is, a period before futures. I do not take in the period from 1861-62 to 1870-71, because of the war and the fluctuations in gold. I stop at 1861, because the war inter­vened, and if I went into the subsequent period, before 1880. questions of gold value, of . the rate of exchange, and tllt:> dis­turbance of currency resulting from the war would be factors in the problem. I desired · to make an accurate <.'ompilation. ~'he statement, as I bnve said, shows the lowest point to which cotton fell from 1850-Dl to 1860-61, and from 1880-81 to 1890-91.

"I take these two periods, one before the system of' futures' and one after. I want to show the fact that the incoming crop cansed a glut in the market and thus produced a depression in price which was common to both periods. It does that, as I said just now. in every product, and that glut occurred at about the same time relatively. Here it is. In 1883-84 the lowest price was September 1, 1883; tf!ke 1853-54, and the lowest price wns October 21. 1853; take 1884-85, and the lowest price was October 24. 1834 ;· nnd the lowest price in 1854-55 was December 15. 1854; take 1885-86, and the lowest price was Febru:uy 26, 1886; and the lowest price in 1855-56 was November 9, 1855.

" The depression, therefore, of both periods was as a rule coincident with largest receipts.

tt Dates of lowest prices of middling Upland cotton in Neto York during each. season from 185(}-51 to 1860-61, and from 1880-81 to 1890-91.

Season of- Date of low­est price. Season of- Date of law­

est price.

1Rro-1R51 a ... ~........... Am~. 5,1851 1851-1R52 ................. Dec. 26,1851 1852-1S53.... .... • • • .. • • • • Dec. 14,1852 1853-IS\M.. ........... •••• Oct. 21,1853 1854-1Rii5 ................. Dec. 15, 18M 1855-1R56 ................. Nov. 9,1R55 1856-11157 ................. Sept. 2, 1R56 18.57-lS.'>S................. Jan. 5,1R58 185S-18592 ............... June 3,1&59 1859-ISf.O 2_...... .... ... .. July ~o. 18fi0 1860-1861................. Dec. 5,1860

1880-18H1 •--·---········ May 1&!<1-1882 ................ Oct. 1882-1883 •..... •••• •••••. Apr. 1883-1~4... •. .••• •••••.. Sept. 1884-1&1:15. • • .. •• • • • • • • • • • Oct. 1885-l8R6 ................ Feb. 1886-1R87.. ... .••••••••.. Nov. 1Rf!7-18S8 ................ Oct. 18.1l8-IS89............. .• . Oct. l!lR9-1890 •••••••••••••••. Nov. 1891-18915 ............... Aug.

10,1881 17,1881 4,1883 1,18.~

24, 1f!84 26,1886

4,18&> 3,1887 7, 1AA.8 4, lS&J

17,1891

1 Crop of 1851-52 proved to be tht' lar~e'lt up to that date, and when it became ap­parent in August, 1'!51, that the new crop would be greatly in excess o! any previous season, price~ could not be maintained.

2 Warlike apprehensions in Europe caused serious declines in price~ in Jun11, 1859, and Julv, 18f0.

s C'rop of 11<80-81 w~ lar~est grown up to that time. It exceeded previous crop 845,000 bales. Its \'ast size was not fully realized by the trade until May, 1881, when prices d£clincd under the large stocks. .

1 Crop oJ 188?-83 exceeded all previous crops, and was about 1,500,000 bales greater than the prec('ding crop. This was not plainly seen until April, 1883, when prices declined to lowest or the season.

A (rop or 11'00-91 excEWded the estimates made in No..-ember, 1890, ty over 1,000,000 bales, and when it wa.o:: seen that the crop of 1891-92 would also Qe large the prices gave way.

"Now, I want to call attention to another fact. I hold in my hand a statement of the total sales of futures in New York and New Orleans. Every future sale is registered in th..J New Or­leans and New York Cotton Exchanges. The statement contains the future sales in the cities named cf the cott< . .1 crop from 1880-81 to 1890-91, inclusive-the whole volume of those sales. the ''olurne of the crop, and the average price of spot cotton for each sea son.

"The table referred to is as follows:

''Total sales of fttture. r; 1n Neto York and Neto Orleans, and cotton cwops 1880-81 to 1890--91, inclusive.

Ave:age

Eeasonoi- New York. New Total. Crops. priCe

Orleans. middling in New York.

1880-1881 ••••••••••••• 26,721,800 5,239,600 31,961,400 6,605, 760 111 1881-1882 ............. 32, i68,000 2, 124, !?00 34,892, 900 5, 456,048 12., 1882-11!83 ••••••••••••• 25,907,100 11,712,800 37,619,ROO 6,949, 756 u; 1883-1884 ............. 24,838,600 8, 939,400 33,768,000 5, 713,200 11 1884-1885 ••••••••••••• 21,462,900 8, 2'03, 000 29,725,900 5, 706,165 l&t 1885-1 6 ............. 25,3~,.500 7,01~. 700 32,401,200 6,575,691 1886-1R87 ............. 28,079,800 ll,642,500 39,722,300 6,505,087 l(}fi 1887-l!l88 •.• - ••••••••• 28,924,400 8,709,800 37,634,200 7,045,833 lOR 1888-181\9 ............. 20,184,400 6, 747,900 26,932,300 6,938,290 10~ 1889-1890 ............. 21,084,100 6,917, 900 28,002,000 7,311,322 11! 1890-1891. ............ 26,389,500 9,141,400 35,530,900 8,652,597 9h

Total ........... 281,733,100 86,457,900 3;;S,HH,OOO 73,459,479

n Those figures absol:Jtely Jemonstrate that the greater the volume of 'future' sales to the volume o: the crop, the higher the average price was for spot cotton. Here they are compiled from Cotton Facts, a book of unquestioned authority in the cot ton trade, its author, Mr. Shepperson. being in no way a dealer in cotton. but devoting his time and talents to the literature of th..! subject. I wish to print the table in ille RECORD as part' of my remarks, and I call every Senator's attention to it, particu larly those from cotton-growing States. This table shows that taking the volume of futurJ sales and i~e volume of crops, that the average price of actual spot cotton was higher when the volume of ' futures ' bore the largest proportion to the volume of the crop. .

" What does this il1nstrate? It illustrates a very simple ele­mentary proposition of political economy, as clenr as two and two make fonr; that is, that prices are always higher in an ac­t:\e market; that the more trading there is, the more you get for the thing traded in. But when I showed this table to a dis tinguished Senator the other day, he said to me, • That table does not prove anything; you have taken the average price of the year.' Now, the complaint is, and I want to call y(mr attention to the fact, that the effect of this future dealing is not that it does not give as high an average price, but that it is a snare and a delusion to the farmer~ and that it is a system of 'now you see it, and now you don't'; that when the glut comes the farmer's cotton is taken at a low price and sold at a high one after the farmer has already marketed.

" In other words, the claim is that the future dealer takes the hand of the farmer and leads him down into the depths of the Slough of Despond, and when he is led down and all his prod­ucts taken away from him, then up goes the price and the specu­lators take the advantage. That. Mr. President, is absolutely and entirely false in every particular, as shown by my figures. Although it is untrue, it seems to be an opinion entertained by some, doubtless from error of fact.

" I now send to the desk to be read the testimony of Mr. D. W. McCune, who represents the National Farmers' Alliance.

" The PRE3IDING OFFICER. The paper referred to will be read. " The Secretary read as follows : ... Now, then, if the claim be just, which is made by the other side

here, that this future selling regulates and controls and keeps up the market. and if it also be true that it can be made to have a temporary effect upon the market, then it follows if the pressure brouo-ht to bear at the beginning of the season temporarily Teduces prices, then by means of this system they kee'P it down, and, as was ably shown by the gentleman from Minnesota who testified on our side, It bad the effect of frightening away would·bl' investm·s, that tt frightens away legiti­mate capital that would othet•wise be Induced to bold this crop when there was a superabundance, and It they could estimate on the volume of the crop and the volume of the demand and have some reason to believe it was an investment they would go into It, but owing to the manipulation of these futmes it was so unsettled an operatim:i that it horned otl' and kept the legitimate investors frightened a way. and they would not take bold of it at all. Now, the same is true, and the point that I am gradually Intending to show is this, that by this system they keep the mills horned off. 'l'hey squeeze the cotton out of the pro­ducer and they keep the consumer horned off, so that he will not buy a pound of cotton unt11 he Is compelled to have It, and they keep legiti­mate capital frightened away so that they will not invest 'in it.

"Now, this system does not result from a little buyer who buys a few hundt·ed bales and sells against It while his cotton is going to market; It is not from legitimate business men at all, but it is done by these com­binations that manipulate, that squeeze the crop out of the hands of the producer and hold it thl'Ougb the season, and deal it out in driblets as they need it at a high price.

• • • • • • " Of course that is Impossible; but I do believe that tnere is a cer­

tain part of it-that is, the part of it that is carried on a large scale at exactly the right time, when the crop commences to move, when the money is scat·ce, when the big buyers who have agents all over the coun· try want to buy, that they can turn :;tnd fairly Hood the leading future market-New York-with sales and oll'ers to sell and depress the price very materially. I do nut see bow anyone can deny that. Now, I am taking, Mr. Chairman, a more conservative position perhaps than I be­lieve, but l am taking it so as to be sure and just.

"Mr. WHITE. Before I meet that argument I desire to cull attention to the difference between the Sen:1tor from Minnesota and this g~ntleman. The idea of the Senator from Minnesota seems to be that this future system prevents the enhancement of price, drives it down always and continuously. The idea of the gentleman whose statement has just been read is not that fu­tures affect the price continuously. but that futures make the price low while the far~er is selling and then make it high when the speculator has gotten it. The two pretensions can not be both true. The Senator from Minnesota said yesterday that the effect of futures was such that when a man bought he could never sell with profit; he could not carry it; he could not get along. If a man be a buyer, then it seems to me be would buy at the season when these speculative buyers would be in the market-that is, buy wher, i - Mc-Cune be right, they were clos­ing the farmer out cheap, and sell when the speculators were

11508 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 1,

raising the price. - That, it seems to me, would be the time to preceding the etnbllshment of the· future-delh·ery bmdness in sell. ~ New York were the largest of which there is any record. The·

"If this ls a system by which the cotton factors and oll tho~e fluctuations for middling cotton · in New York in 18G6-67 wPre representing the cotton planter put the crop down, when it IS 17 cents; in 1867-68, 17! cents; in 1868-69, 10i cents; in 18G9-coming in ·buy it, and then raises the price and sell it high for 70. 15i cents. themsel>es. it se~ms to me :hat is a kind of business that wou.ld "But. it may ~e said you have calculated in the range of just suit the miller. But the Seuator from Minnesota says that fluctuation, and m order to arrive at the range of fluctuation that does not exist, although Mr. McCune says it does. you have taken the highest and lowest price durin"' the whole

"To show thnt this via:· is no~ true. I haYe made a compnri- year. 'l'bere is no other way to do it. ~ . · son of prices of middling upland cotton in New York from 1880 "Mr. RANSOM. Will my friend allow me to interrupt him? to 1891 with the period from 1850 to 1861, the same stanuard of "1\lr. WHITE. Certainly. comparison being applied to both. I Lr.. ve taken the prices dur- "Mr. RANSOM. Will the Senator give us the list of prices ing both periods. Here they are during the time when the representing the period? future system did not exist. ~rom 1850 to 1SG1. Here they are "l\1r .. 'VHITE. I have not the list of prices under my hand. when the future system did exirt, from 1830 to 1891. I have The pnc:es were higher before the future period. taken those two se~s of prices and lliade the calculation, and "l\!r. RANSOM. They were higher in the first period were any man can mnk~ it. ' tbe.y not, the period when they had no futures, than in the

"I wi11 print the table as a part of my remarks. It shows the penod when they bad the actual prices? range of fluctuat1on in the two periods. What was it? Why, "1\Ir. WHITE. Of course, cotton was generally higher years sir, the greflter range of fluctuation was in the period from 1850 a.go than now, and so with everything else. There is no conten­to 1861. before futures. In 1850-51 the fluctuation was H-T'~r tJOn about that. There is no contention in this testimonv here cents more than the range of fluctuation in the first year of the anywhere that the effect of the future system was to lower the other period, 18'30-81. In 1851-52 it was fifteen-sixteenths more price of cotton. I have read the statement of Mr. McCune in thnn it was in 18'31-82. In 1854-55 it wns 2! cents more thnn in which he says that the effect of this system is not to affect the 1884-85. In 1 5G-57 it wns 2frr cents more than it was in 1886- general price but to make cotton low when the farmer is sell-87. In 1857-58 it was 4U cents more than in 1SS7-38. There ing nod high when be is not selling. are but three years in the whole time in which the range of "If the Senator will tnrn to the statistical abstract and make fluctuntion in the period where futures obtained was greater a comparison with of all our agricultural products which are than the range of fluctmttion existing before the future period, not sold by future delivery he will find that shrinkage in value and those three years are explained by the occurrence of dis- afft>ets not only cotton but all other things in this country turbances which operated on the market entirely extraneous equally. To attribute general shrinkage in value (which bas from the future question. I will annex explanations of these affected the whole country, affected things which are not cov­years by way of notes to the table. ered by futures as well as things which are covered by futures), ••comparison of prices ot middling upland cotton in New York since 1880 to the future system, when the record does not contain any

with the pel'iod from 1850 to 1860. - such pr~te!lsi~n, wi?-en the gentlemen whom they are combating

Season o!-Highest price.

Lowest price.

for say It IS simply to prevent them from being skinned b:v huv­~~~g~r ing the price put down and then put up, is asking me a question

tions. which, in my judgment, is entirely out of the record. " Mr. RANSOM. My friend will pardon me. He invited the .

18RO-lf:RL ........................................ .. . 1 881-1~2 ........................................... . IAA:'-1~~-- ---·······--·--·--···--· · ··--···----·----· 18~1-84 ........................................... . 1884--1!'185 .••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••. l!l~~l SSf\ ..•.•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••. 18 e- I!IR7 ........................................... . 1R87-1 .s\8 ........................................... . 18l'-8-1AA9 ........................................... . 1889--1,f>O . ......................................... ..

13

~~ Btl 11! 10l 11-t\-Ili 11~ 12~

1Qh 11! 10 IOl 9f stl 9~ 9-h 9~

lOi

question, or I should not have asked it, by a remark which be i.$: just made to me in a low voice. He was speaking of the 2tt fluctuations, and I simply desired the information for myself 1tl and the Sennte to show whnt the comparative prices were in ~~ the two representative periods be designated. I asked the 2-h Senator this simple question for information, and I hope be IH will not bold me responsible for what any other person bas said U are complnints of farmers and what are not. an- ".Mr. WHITE. I thought I had fully answered that question 1SI!0--1· 91. •..•. ..•.•.•.•••..••..••.•••.•••.•••...•.•.

Season o!- Hil!hest price.

Lowest price.

11

Ran go of

fluctua­tions.

7H

Greater Less rang-e of ran~re of prices in prices in

~~~~ ~:?a~ "futures." "futures."

by what preceded, when I exhibited a tnble showing the volume of futu:es and the Yolume of crop, and the price, and showed that pnce depended 11bsolutely upon the law of supply and demand and not upon t11e quantity of futures. I tbouo-ht that question bad been answered. I think now to my mind it is perfectly and absolutely and satisfactorily answered.

"Mr. RANSOM. I did not mean to be involved in this little ------------ colloquy between us, but I took the liberty of reading a part of

~f' ~ gt ;1 :::::::::: ththe m~morafndumtt which tbh~ hSentatoh1· hadtboffere1d to sfhofwtthat 18i:0--181\l. ............... •••••••

11~ 9~ 11~ 1 }h e pnce o co on was 1g es w en e vo ume o u nres lli 101 1 ·H was largest. He read the memorandum to the Senate to show ng . gt 4t ...... 2!" that the price of cotton was highest when the volume of futm·es

1851-1&52 ..... .. ............... . 1852-1853 ..................... .. 1853-1R54 ...................... .

15A 11t ~1 ~ .......... was largest. I read hastily the memorandum, and I hnYe it 15~ SA 6A 4H .......... now before my eye: I learned from the memorandum that the

1854-1855 ...................... . 1855--1 '56 ...................... . 185C-1S57 ...................... . 1 51-1858 ...................... . 1858-1859 ...................... -1E.%'-18CO .•••••••••••••••••••••• 1f.60-1861 t ..................... .

Hl t~ !I ...... ~tf ~~~~~~:~~~ i~~~e t~fe c~~~~~:~~ ~Jt~~~~ ~~~n nt~t~is~i~~ :Oa~~~a~!4p~i~~ one way or the other, or at lenst it dld not have the effect the Senator attributed to it. For instance-1 The crop of 18!l2-R3 was the largest ~own nu to that time and exceeded the pre-­

vious crop l ,H]O.l'CO bale<>. rrices yielded under tte pressure of excessive receipts and stocJ;s, tl;us <'!ll'SinJ!: widfr ft:ctuation in prkes. ~The se:tlon or 188.1--84 opened under the depre'3'{in~ influence orthe large stocks

remaining in tre L'nited States and Liverpool frcm t]1e crop of the pre-rious sPSSon (an increa<;e of about 3LO.OOO tale~), and the lowest prices were current from Sept. 1 to Jan. 1. 'l'be condition of e new crop planted in the spring of 1884 wa.<; unfavor­able and this caused a starp ad,ancP, thus widening the ran~e of fluctuations. Tbe crop pro..-ed to be 1,~37,000 ll'S.'> than tbe previous onto. ·

a In the fir'> I four months of the seac;on of 1889--90 the re<'eipts at the ports were the largest previously rPcorded reaching 4,270,000 bales, and exceeding the receipts of tl:e correspond in~ period of the previous season by 550,000 bales. Under this pres­sure prices receded from lli cents on Sept. 1 to 101 cents on N.ov. 4, this latter price teiog tte lowe«t oft l:e season.

• Prices for 18f.Q.-61 are to the end of April. The Civil War was a di'lturbing factor alter ttat date and prices ad--ranced before close of the season (Aug. 31) to 20 cents, making a range for the entire season or 10 cents.

" Reference to the seasons from 1866-67 to 1879-80 has been omitted because they covered what is known as the reconstruc­tion period, as well as the time of suspension of specie pay­ments. The fluctuations in cotton during these years were very great, and the fluctuations for the four years immediately

.. Mr. WHITE. I think the Senator ought not to interrupt me by making a speech at this time. •

" Mr. RANSOM. All right; I will not. " Mr. WHITE.· I am engaged in a regular argument. "Mr. RANSOM. I am Yery sorry--" Mr. WHITE. I appreciate the Senator's regret at interrupt­

ing me, and I know bow keenly be feels its force. "Mr. RaNsoM. While the Senator was in his seat and the

Clerk was engngc 1 in reading I asked him a little question and be said be wished I would ask him then so be could satisfy my mind. But my m~nd is not satisfied. I am an axious inquirer.

"Mr. WHITE. Evidently the Senator is Yery anxious. "Mr. RANSOM. I am very sorry I disturbed my fiiend-e::r­

tremely sorry. I did not me:m to do so. It is a thing I am yery rareiy guilty of in the Senate.

'' 1\lr. WHITE. 'l'be solicitude of the Senator from North Caro~ lina I think would be fully answered if he had liste.'led to whut

•

1914 .. CONGRESSIONAL R.ECORD--HOUSE. 11509 I said when I produced this table. I never thought, and I made no such statement, that the price depended upon the volume of futures; but I said that the average price of the years since the existence of futures was largest in the propor­tion the quantity of futures bore to the crop. Of course that statement is a mathematical statement of the proposition that the law of supply and demand governed as the volume of futures depended upon the volume of crop. The Senator looks at the statement and says the statement demonstrates that the price depended upon supply and demand, and yet be asked me whether futures affected it. That is the answer I got.

"Mr. llANSOM. I did not understand the Senator, tllen. "Mr. WHITE. In order to prevent any possible implication

tllat this calculation of average embraced any very low period or very high period I h:ne taken the price of middling cotton ill New York from 1880-81 to 1890-91. month by month. and also during tile period where no futures existed. month by month, from 1850-51 to 1860-61, and it shows, beyond a per­adr-entut·e of a doubt, large and abnormal fluctuations, month by month, before futures. That is the very condition of things which is complained of hete existed then, and it also shows the absence of such a condition of things during the future period. - "In other words, taking the prices month by month since the future period you find a small decline, a decline when t1;1.e cotton begins to come in, but the rate of decline from that declining

point throughout the year is Jess than was the rate of the fall in the period where no futures obtained. Taking the fluctua­tions, following them month by month sin~e futures, you find the amount a fraction of a cent. Taking the fluctuations during the other period, it is not infrequent that tl.J.ey run up into large figures. I wil1 take some of them as examples. Take 1884-85, December was 1.39 above September; 18u4-55, December was 1 cent below September. In other words, despite the incoming of the crop in 1884-85, December prices had been driven up to 1.39.abo\e what cotton opened at tbe commencement of the sea­son, whilst in 1854-55 it bad lowered in price 1 cent from the beginning of the season. Of course all these statements refer to the prices of actual cotton. .

"Go to another year. Take 1885-86; October prices were 0.21 below September. In 1855-56 they were 1 cent belo-w September. Take 1887-88; December was above No\ember 0.35. In 1857-58 December was below November 2 cents. In other words, the •ery process which is complained of here occurred before the future period and. not since the future period. Why was this? Because futures held. tile market with a stendy hand; and al­though there was as a rule a decline, that decline has been small compared with the persistency of decline · and tbe abnormal fluc­tuations which took place before futures came into existence. Now, if this is not a complete answer to the complaints, I do not know what could be. I submit this table to be printed as a part of my remarks: ·

• .Average price of middling cotton in New York for each month and for each Utl8on 1850-1851 to 1860-1861 and 1880-1881 to 1890-1891.

Months. 1850- ~ 1851- 1852- 1R53- 1854-11855- 1856- 1857- 1858- 1&9- 1860- 188(). 1881-~~ 1AA2- 1R83-~1884- I 1885- 18R6- 1887- 18$8- 1889- 1f\90- 1891-1851 1852 1853 1854 1855 1856 1857 1858 1859 1860 1861 1881 1882 1883 1884 1E85 1886 1887 1888 1889 1890 1891 1892

------11--------------------------,----------------September .•....••.•.• October--············· N o,·err ber •••...•.•••. Decetr' ber •..•.••.•.•••

13-H 9i 1gr 11~ 10 1~ IHt 15H 13-fr llH 10H 11.80 12.22 12.40 10.3710.56 10. C6, 9. 33 9. 81 10.45 11.2810.54 8. 61 14-l 9(r 1 lot 10~ 91 12~ (1) 1ZH ll,I.- 11,\ 11.25 11.61 11. 12 10. f>l 9. 95 9. 8G, 9. 33 9. 51 9. R6 10. f-110. 28 8. 51 Ht 8t1 10 111; 9t !ln 12i 12j llf Hi ~~* 11.27 11.1'1 10.481 10.5llfl.l9 9.41 9.17 10.?0 9.93 · 10.26 9.60 R16

January ...•••••.•••••. February_ ........... .

13l 8i 9j Ilk 9 91 11-h 10~ 111_-1 11-,lc- ~~ 11.92 11.97 10.331 10. 4510.95 9. 28 P. 47 10.55 9. 81 10.27 9. 39 7. 94

gi~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~! 1~ g; 1~r ~~+tl Ur ~~-n U: ~~ U: ~~ ~8: ~~ ~8: ~g it~~ g: ~~ g: ~ ~8: ~ ~~: ~~ i~: i~ · ~: ~~ ~: ~ Marrh ....••.•.....••. April. .•.••.••.••..••. May .•••••••••.••••••• June •...••..••.••••••• July ...••••......••••.

11/a ~ 10{ 1Qi 9f 10 13-J lli 121 11i 12 11.001 11.99 10.16 11.0411.31 !J.ll 10.00 10.15 H\18 11.411 8.99 6.87 Iff! 8i 11-t\ 10~ 10! 10H- 14-l 12t 12t 11i 13 10. 80~ 12.18 10.17 11.8011.02 9. 2510.58 I 9. 87 10. fJ3 11. 701

8. 94 7.11 IOH 9-i Ut 10! 111'-- JOt 14 12t 11-,\- Ill 10. 114 12.20 10. 85 . 11.6410.89 9. 24 11.00 10.00 11.10 12. 20~ 8. 90 7. 32 9r 10 u§ tot 12~ 11 141 12-,1r 11-h 11 u. os 12. 28 10. s3

1

11. aG 10. 1s 9. 21 n.16 1o. 16 ,11. os 12.141 s. 51 1. ss

August. .. ·····-······ A vero.ge !or season •.•.

9 IO! 11,\ 101 11! n-n 14H 12! 12/r 10i 11.4 12.7 10. oo 11.0310.33 9. so 10.58 10.55 11.23 12.ul s. 25 ..••• Si loti 11~- !Of Ill 1H 15~ 12i 12 10i .- .... 12.25112.97 10.14

1

10.8810.41 9.40 9.~5 11.02 11.39 11.81 8.10 ..... 12.14 9. 50 11.02 10.97 10.39,10.30 13.51 12.23 12.08 ll.00j12.00 11.75 12.25

111.50 11.00

110.62! 9.50/0.31} l10.37~I10.G2! 11.50 9.431 7.6_9

!Nominal. 1884-1885, December 1.39 rents above September; 1854-1855, Dererober 1 rent below Eeptember; 1&.~1886, October 0.20 cent t.elow Eepte.~ber; 1E&-e;_1F5G, October 1 cent

below September; 1887-1888, Dec{)mber above November 0.35 cent; 1857-1858, December below November 2 cents.

"But there is other overwhelming eyidence of the advantage which has resulted from future-!leliveiy transactions. I affirm that the certain effect of futlues has been to relieve the Ameli­can producer from the grasp of the British spinner; has been to decrease tbe shipping margin between the New York and Liver­pool markets, thus to that extent assisting the producer. I hold in rny hand a comparative statement as .to the values of mid­dling and upland cotton in Liverpool and New York at the times of the lowest prices in New York in 1844. 1845. 1848. and the lowest price in 1892-making allowance for the difference in freight charges and the equivalent for the delay in time. I sub­mit the table to be published in connection with my remarks:

uoomparative t:alues of middling upland cotton ill Lit:erpool and New York, at the times of lowe.ttt JH'ices it~ New York ill the 1/Cars 18-~, 1815, 18~8, ancl 1892, mal.,;ing allo1cance tor dif{e1·e1;ce in freight charges and an a!jet·ar;t: mail date equivalent of 35 days Zatet· than Liverpool date for tlteo..~.Veto Yorl' date. E:cchange, .q.85.

Liver- Equal Dit:'er-Liver- pool .Amerl- New enceor Date pool Freight. price, can York shipping price. freight price. pal d. money. margin.

------Pence. Pcnct. Pence. Ce11ta. Cents. Cents.

No\r, 25, 1844 •••••••••• 3l t 3; 7-h 5-h a Feb. 7,1845 ••••••••••• 31 ~ 34

·~ 5ft.

Apr. 7, 1848 •••• ·-··-·· ~ h m 5i 2i Mar. 3, 1892 ••••••••••• h 7-ft 7-tJ i

"This statement is remarkable in two respects: . " 1. The E>normous margin required In the past by the cotton merchant

to p1·otect himself against a decline, as compared with the present, when be can protect himself by selling fot• future delivery.

·· 2. Tbe wide fluctuation in that margin, t·anging fr·om H cents t(\ !!~ cents. showing the lack of stability in values.

·• 1 t is also a well-known fact In the cotton tt·ade that during the year3 of low prices cited cotton In the southern ports sold fo1· less than 4 cents

PN pound, while now, with the same ot• lower range of prices current In Europe, It is bt·inging 6 cents per pound in the South. ·

''These figures show that on No•ember 25. 1844. cotton in Liv­erpool was 3-k pence. The freight was three-eighths pence. The Liverpool price. freight paid, was 3! pence, tl.J.e equa: in Ameri­can money of 71\r cents. The New York price was 5-h cents, len\ing a shipping margin of H cents. Now, go to February, 1848; tl.J.e shipping margin is H cents; in April, 1848. it is 2k cents. These fncts show that there existed behveen the Liver­pool price of cotton at that time and the price of cotton here this large margin.

"What aid that come from? It came from the fact that the American producer was at the mercy of the British spinner. His cotton came into the market. Our mills could not consume it. Here was this large surplus, representing at least 70 per cent of the crop, and t}fe margin between America and Lh·erpool was an average of nearly 2 cents during those years.

"It may be said, 'But you have picked out years; you have selected 1844 and 1845 and 1848.' In order to meet tlla t criti­cism I have had a table prepared. showing the shipping margin between Liverpool and New York in 1884-85, 1885-86. 18-.:6-87, as the period of futm·es. down to 1890-91, with a comparison from 1854 to 1861-the nonfuture period.

"What does this comparison show? Let us see. The shipping margin in 1854--55 was 1.36 cents; in 18S4-85 it was 1 cent: in 1855-ti6 it was 1.70 cems, while in 1885-86 it was 0.87 of n cent; in 1856-57 it was Jt cents against 0.81 of a cent in 18SG-87; in 1857-58 it was 3.14 cents against one-half of a cent in 1887-88; in 1853-53 it was 1.02 cents against 1! cents in 1888-89; in 1859-GO it was 2.37 cents against 0.87 of a cent in 1889-90; in 1860-61 it was 1i cents against 0.93 of a cent in 1890--nl. Tbe average shipping margin of the seven years 1854 to 1861 was 1.96 cents per pound against an a-.;-erage of 0.89 of a cent for the seYen years 1884 to 1891 of the futures period. I submit the table as a part of my remarks.

(J

I •

•

11510 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 1~

n T al)le shotrin.Q the ~7Jippinn morqin. bet11·een Nem Yor1c and Li'VerfJOOZ for middlinf} cotton tor each season, 185.1,-55 to 1860-61 .<u:hicll is ~s far bacT' as toe lla 1:e reli able data) and 1884-85 (toe be!]tl• the penod of com paris on at 1884-85 in order to a voia the fluctuations of gold) and 18!10-91.

Liverpool Eouiv- 'ew alen t in York Shipping

Season oi-n,·ernge P nited a,·er~e price for States prire for margin. season. money. st>.ason.

P eMe. Cl"TTts. Cer:ts. Cer.t~.

1884-1885 • •••••••••••••••.••••••••••••••.• EH 11. ()2 10.62 1.00 188.5-1886 •.•••.•••••••••••..•••••.•••••.•. fh 10. 37 9.50 .87 1886-1 ? ................................. f:..fr; 1L 12 10.31 .81 1837-1883.- ............................... [;~ 10. 87 10.37 .50 1883-1839 ................................. tH 11. 87 10.62 1.25 18S9-1S90 •••••••..•...•.•..••.••..•.•••... r~w 12.37 11.50 .87 1 90-1891 •..••..•••••••.•••.••.•......•... fh 10.37 9.44 .93

Liverpool Equiv- New alent in York Shipping

Season of- ;:~~~fo~ united ;ri::& margin .. States season. money. season.

Pence. Ctnts. Crnts. Crot3. 1854-1855.-- .............................. 5i 11.75 10.39 1.36 1855-1856 ................................. 6 12.00 10.30 1. 70 1856-1857 ................................. 7! 15.00 13.50 1.50 1857-1858 ................................. 7H 15.37 12.23 3.14 185S-1859 ................................. 7 14.00 12.08 1.92 1859-ISGO ................................. 6H 13.37 11.00 2.37 1860...1861 ................................. 7i 13.75 12.00 1. 75

"Average shipping margilJ of the seven years 1884 to 1891 is 0.80 of a cent, and of the sever1 years 1854 to 1861, 1.06 cents per pound.

"What do these margins represent? This enormous average difference of over a cent a pound on the shipping margin durmg the yea rs compared was caused by the fact that the cotton was held during the future period from pressing on the market by the effect of the future-delivery system, and therefore the glut produced nothing like the damaging effect that it did before that period. Here was a difference in shipping margin of over a cent. Whom was it made by? Of course it was mil de by the American producer. I resume the showing. If the average price depends upon the volume of crop without reference to futures, if tile range of fluctuations during the period before fu­tures was greater than in the periods of futures. if the fluctua­tions month by month before the future period were much greater than they are in the future period. if before the future period there was a large shipping margin between Liverpool and this country and that margin has diminished considerably-if these facts be true, I ask, Do not they absolutely confirm every proposition I have advanced. and do they not justify the uni­versal consensus of the commercial world that dealings in futnres helps to maintain the price, and therefore helps the producer?

"I come now to the question which my friend the distin­guished Senator from Mississippi [Mr. George] put to me, and that involves the discussion of another portion of the bil~. I say this bill is a delusion. I say under this bill contracts for future delivery can not be practically made until commercial men devise expedients and mechanism to frustrate the law nnd to overcome it, and wby? The provision of the bill is that the planter may sell for future delivery either the crop he has made or the crop he proposes to make.

"1\lr. GEoRGE. Not proposed. but having in process. "Mr. WHITE. Well, that does not change the logical propo­

sition. I did not intend to state it with inaccuracy. I rlo not think that affects the situation. Let us see how the future busi­ness is conducted. In the first plac€. the question which the Senator from South Carolina [Air. Butler] asked me is per­fectly true. A large part of the cotton which came early to market hac probably been already sold before it got there~ Sold how? Sold under ''lhe future system. The result of the future sy~tem has been to break up great buyers, and now all over the southern country everywhere, in every county, wherever cotton can be sold there is found a cotton buyer. A buyer for whom'! A buyer for him elf. The telegraph goes everywhere. The buyer is communicating with spinners. The spinners do not buy average lots of cotton. They buy particular kinds of cotton.

"There is no farmer who can sell a particular kind of cotton . A crop of cotton is diversified and composed of divers grades. The spinner wants a certain kind of cotton. The buyer tele­graphs him, 'I wi11 deliver you such a grade of cotton,' say a thousand bales or 500 bales. He bas not got it. There is not one planter who could give it to him. He sells it on the faith of his credit and faith in hls ability to obtain the grades re-

quired. The spinner believes in him; he· knows him. That man, in order to protect himself from loss, the moment the S[lin­ner says be accepts, telegraphs to a market and buys futures as a hedge against his sale to the spiilller. Cotton as sold for futures does not 00ver a particular grade, but an average lot of cotton.

"All that is below a certain grade is not admitted. and no lot of cotton is of a uniform grade. The moment he buys actual ~ot­ton he picks out of that lot of cotton the bales which corre­spond to what he has sold the spinner and disposes of futures to that extent. If compelled to buy another lot in order to com­plete his sale to the spinner. he sells more of his futures, and so he goes on and goes on until he has made up his lot to deli\'cr to the spinner's order, and also disposes of his futures . . I ask the Senator from Mississippi [Ur. George] where is the farmer who can do that? Where is the crop of the farme1· that is going to supply that want and carry out such a transaction, which is a typical representa tion of the contract by which the pro­ducer's cotton passes to the consumer? ·

"1\Ir. GEORGE. Do you want an answer now? "Mr. WHITE. Certainly; I should be very glad tp have an

answer. "Mr. GEORGE. My answer is that the farmer can not do it

.and it can not be done under the form of the future contract adopted by the Cotton Exchange of New Orleans and the Cot­ton Exchange of New York. in both of which, whHst a man pur­chased the contracts for middling cotton, the seller may deliver him any kind of 7 full grades, 14 grades of cotton. and no manufacturer can ever supply himself under the future system us regulated in New Orleans and New York.

"Mr. WHITE. Let me answer the Senator. lie evidently has not understood my position. Let me state an elementary com­mercial transactjon : A is a spinner. B is a buyer. A. the spinner, snys to B, the buyer, ' I want a thousand bales of long­staple cotton.' That is not a transaction made under the rules ' of any exchange. B. the buyer. says, 'Very well; I will de­liver to you a thousand bales of long-staple cotton.' Here a contract hns been engendered between A, the buyer, and B, the seller, to deliver a thousand bales of long-staple cotton. The seller has not got the cotton. He has got to get it. What does the spinner do in order to protect himself agninst loss? He has sold his goods. He knows the price be is going to have to pay for his cotton. He immediately proceeds to sell his goods for fuh1re delivery predicated upon the price at which he has · agreed to pay for this cotton.

" What does the seller do? It is an ordinary contract under the rules of no exchange. Then that seller buys a lot of cotton for future delivery-deliverable to him two months ahead. He knows the price at which he has bought it and at which he has sold. His whole object in doing this is to get a lot of cotton so as to make up this lot which he ·has agreed to deli•er. Covered by his two contracts, one of sale and the other of purchase, he looks about in the country, picks up the grade he has sold to the spinner. and as fast as he does this he sells out h~ ..:; futures. He mr.y make 20 or 30 future transactions before completing this entire business. He could not do this without futures. How could he do it without suffering the risk of a decline'? He in­sm·es himself against a decline. The spinner insures himselt against an ad,·ance. Everybody in the transaction is insm·ed.

"1\Ir. GEORGE. Except the planter. " Mr. WHITE. The planter sells and gets his money. " Mr. GEORGE. He sells on futures. "Mr. WHITE. And I have shown he gets a more regular and

a better and less fluctuating price than he got before the future system came in. That is the answer to it.

"l\1r. President, it is one of my great objections to this bill that whilst it holds out a delusive bope that the planter can personally dispo~e of his cotton by futur·es, he practically can not by the restrictions created by this bill. The whole cotton country is changing its form. Cotton used to be made in large fields, with one owner and class labor. Now it is getting sub­divided, and small holdings are coming in.

"I have here a statement taken from the preceding census-! could not get it from the last-showing thnt two-fifths of the farms in the southern country are now small holdings, and the system is increasing. Take my own State. We ha,·e an a11uvinl rountry with la rge planters and we h~ve a hill country with small planters making a small number of bales each. Any­body who is familiar with cotton corning to the New Orleans market knows that in one invoice there will be 20, 30, 40, and 50 marks of cotton, all shipped by one, but belonging to different people. Small planter ship 1 and 2 bales at a time.

" The provisions of this bil1 allowing the sale of futures by the planter strikes a blow at the small farmer in the hills of rny State, because whilst it gives them tl...e privilege to sell futures under the laws of trade, they will not be able to avail them-

1914. .. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 11511

sel yes of it, whilst the man who makes a large crop . and has a large assortment of cotton will :find himse1f a fa>ored person as compared wltll the ~mall cotton producer. I stand for the small cotton producer; I stand for the farmer in my State who can not a n til himself of the pro•isions of this bill because he does not make a lot of cotton which he could sell to advantage. The effect of this bill will be to allow the man only who has a large amount of cotton to sell it under the bill. ·

" .1\"Ir. President, the :figures are so clear to my mind ,that I ha>e Mearched them in va in for an answer. I think they are an abso­lute demonstration of the truth of the proposition which I hold, and until the figures are answered discussion ef the theory of the situation is without avail. I say, with these :figures staring me in the face, I dare not >Ote for this bill. ~'he cotton crop from the southern country is now coming in. I saw in the Financial Chronicle the other day a statement that there are nearly a million bales on the continent. There are fifteen hun­dretl thousand bales of cotton in LiYerpool, and considerable spot cotton in this country, much probably held under future con­tracts and thus stretched over to the next year. ~"'he same day my attention wns called by a newspaper to the fact of the a_r­riTal of the first bale of the new crop in New Orleans.

" I do not desire to prophesy evil as to the future. I know that no act of any legislati>e body can break up a great com­mercial system and render it nugatory. The laws of the worl.d, the laws of commerce, are higher and stronger than any legiS­latiYe system, and they adapt themsel>es with marvelous rapid­ity to any wrong restrictions which may be put upon theD?. Yet the process of adaptation is one of pain and one of travail and o.!le of labor. Pass this bill, strike down this system in the presence of a large amount of spot cotta?- now in .stoc~, an_d, with a new crop coming, my judgment IS that this ~111 ~111 cau e confusion. By the disarrangement and the turmoil which it ,.,.-ill proba})ly make in the commercial methods of ~e ~hole world, the loss to the people of the cotton States will hk~ly not be less Ulan fifty or sixty million dollars for the ensumg year.

" Suppose we do pass the bill and strike the present business methods down, what good is it going to do? Is there not a cotton exchange where futures are dealt in at Liverpool? Are thev not on the Continent of Europe? Did not just a few days ago a gentleman send me the charter of the organization of a great exchange in the city of Hamburg for the purpose of con­ducting this business of futures in cotton? D1d he not send me a letter from a German merchant saying that they had noticed the intention to str1ke down the business here, and they hoped it would come to them.?

"Is there not a cotton exchange at Alexandria, in Egypt? Does not both the Egyptian and the Indian crop move under the 011eration of laws of future delivery? Without that system I have shown that the disparity between the American price and English prlce~ is lr~rge. With the system I ha>e demon­strated that the disparity diminished until there has been an average gain to the producers of this country of over a cent a pound. I am unwilling by my >ote here to transfer this vast sum of money out of the 110ckets of the people of the cotton States into the pockets of the people of Great Britain."

Mr. STEPHENS of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I ask for the read­ing of amendment No. 130, the amendment relative to the Mis­sissippi Choctaws.

The Clerk read as follows : Amendment 139: Page 70, hne 6, insert the following: "'.fbat the Secretary of the Interior be, and be is hereby, authorized

to make a pe1· capita payment to the enrolled members of lthe Choctaw, Chickasaw and Cherokee Tribes of Indians of Oklahoma entitled under exlstin"' law to share in the funds of their respective tribes, or to their lawful heh·s, out of nny moneys belonging to said tribes in the United States 'Treasury or deposited in any bank or held by any official under the jm·isd!ction of the Secretary of the Intet·ior, said payment not to exceed, in the case of the Choctaws and Chickasaws, $100 per capita and in the case of the Cherokees, not to exceed $15 per captta, and ah sntd payments to be made under ~uch rules_ and regula~ions as the Sect·etat·y of the Interior may prescnbe: Pt·omded, That m cases where such enrolled members, or their heirs, are Indians who by reason of their t.legree of Indian blood belong to the restricted class, the Sect·etm·y of the Interior may, in his discretion, .withhold such payments and use the f>ame fot· the benefit · pf such restricted Indians: Providecl, hotcn-ct·, That the provisions of this act shall no.t be applicable to the membet·s of the Choctaw Nation in Oklahoma until Cong1·ess shall have detet·mined the rights of the Mississippi Choctaws whose names do not appear upon t he' approYed rolls of the Choctaws in Oklahoma and until such of sr.ld ::\Hssisslppi Choctaws as shall be found entitled to enrollment have Lecn placed upon the rolls of citizenship of the Choctaw Nation."

1\ir. KETTNER. 1\Ir. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to extend my remarks in the RECORD.

The CHA IR:\IAN. The gentleman from California asks unan­imous consent to extend his remarks in the RECORD. Is there objection 1

There was no objection.

1\ir. STEPHENS of Texas. :Mr. Chairman, I mo>e that the committee do now rise.

The motion was agreed to. The committee accor;dingly rose; and the Speake1· having

resumed the chair, 1\Ir. UNDKRWOOD, Chairman of tlte Commit-. tee of the Whole House on the state of the Union. reported that that committee had fiad under consideration the bill H. R. 12579, the Indian appropriation bill, and had come to no reso­lution thereon.

PENSION BILLS. 1\Ir. KEY of Ohio. 1\Ir. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to

take from the Speaker's table the following pension bills, (lisa­gree to all the Senate amendments, and ask for a conferen-re:

H. R.13297. An act granting pensions and increase of pen­sions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Regular Army and Navy, and certain soldiers and sailors of wars other than the Civil War, and to widows of such soldiers and sai1ors.

H. R. 13920. An act granting pensions and increase of pen­sions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Regular Army and Na·v·y, and certain soldiers and sailors of wars other than the Civil War, and to widows of such soldiers and sailors.

H . R. 14546. An act granting pensions and increase of pen­sions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Regular Army and Navy, and certain soldiers and sailors of wars other than the Civil War. and to widows of such soldiers and sailors.

H. R. 15071. An act granting pensions and increase of pen­sions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Regular Army and Navy, and certain soldiers and sailors of wars other than the Civil War, and to widows of such soldiers and sailors.

H. R.15504. An act granting pensions and increase of pen­sions to certain soldiers and sailors of the Regular Army and NaYy, and certain soldiers and sailors of wars other than the Civil War, and to widows of such soldiers and sailors.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Ohio asks unanimous consent to take from the Speaker's table the pension bills just mentioned, disagree to the Semite amenllments, and ask for n. conference. Is there objection?

There was no objection. The SPEAKER appointed as conferees on the part of the

House ~:Ir. KEY of Ohio, Mr. MURRAY of Oklahoma, and Mr. SELLS.

CORRECTI6N OF THE RECORD. Mr. COOPER. Mr. Speaker, on page 11416 of the RECORD,

:first column, halfway from the top, appears this: The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Georgia [Mr . .ADAM­

so~] iR recognizPd, and the gentleman from Georgia yields to the gent!~ man from New Jersey.

The words "Speaker pro tempore" should be stricken out and the word " Chairman " should be inserted. The Chair at that time was occupied by the gentleman from Texas [1\lr. GABNEB].

The SPEAKETI. Without objection, the correction will be made.

There was no objection. 1\Ir. STAFFORD. Mr. Speaker, a parliamentary inquiry. Is

there not a practice in this House, well recognized, that any small mistake in the text can be corrected by submitting it to the gentlemen at the desk?

The SPEAKER. The Chair ne>er beard of it. 1\Ir. STAFFORD. I know frequently that has been done by

calling it to the attention of the clerks at the desk. The SPEAKER. The Chair never heard of it being done,

and thinks it would be an unfortunate practice if it were done. If that were done, who would fix the limit on what was material and ,vhat was immaterial in a change of the RECORD?

LEAVE OF ABSENCE. The SPEAKER laid before the House the following communi­

cation: To the Speak6!' of the House of Rep1·esentatives:

I respectfully request leave of absence until July 15, because of im­portant matters, both public and private, requiring my attention.

FRANK PLU~LEY. JULY 1, 1914. By unanimous consent, the request was granted.

ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED.

Mr. ASHBROOK, from the Committee on Emolled Bills, re­ported that they had examined and found truly enrolled bills of the following titles, when the Speaker signed the same:

H. R. 4938. An act providing for the issuance of patents to transferees of town lots purchased from the United States .at public sale in certain cases; and

H. R. 16192. An act to authorize the issuance of patent to Rachel E. Dangerfield Boast for the southeast quarter of sec­tion 21 and the northeast quarter of section 28, township 1 south, range 57 west of the sixth principal meridian. ·

'11512 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 1~

The SPEAKER .announced his signature to enrolled bill ()f The motion was agreed to; accordingly (at 5 o'clock and 53 the following title: miz:utes p. m.) the House adjourned until to-morrow, Thursday,

8. 751. An act to repeal section 3480 of the Revised Statutes July 2, 1914., at 12 o·clock noon. of ihe United Sta.tes.

HEr ,\TE BTLLS REFERRED.

Under clause 2, Rule XXIV, Senate bills of the following titles were taken from the Spe!lker·s table and referred to their appropriate committees. as indicated below:

S. 5. ':13. An act granting pensicns and incrense of pensions to certain ol<liers and sailors of the Ch·il War and certain widows and dependent relath·es of such soldiers and sailors; to tlle CommitteP. on Invalid ren~ons.

S. 5fil5. An act granting penRions and increase of pensions to certain soldiers and S1J ilors of the Chi! War and certain widows and dependent rel<ltives of such soldiers and sailors; to the Committee on Im·alid Pensions.

S. 5:;01 . An act granting 11eusions and increa. e of pensions to certain soldiers and ~ailors of the Regular Army and • Tary and of wnrs other than the Chil Wnr. · and t~ certain wid<>ws and dependent -relatives of such soldiers and sailors; to the Com­mittee on Pensions.

S. 5-140. Au ~let granting pensions and incrense of pensions to cert<1in soldiers and sailors of the Civil War and certain widows and depenuent reh1 ti ,·es of such soldiers and sailors; to the Com­mittee on Invalid Pensions.

S. 4441. An act to extend the provisions of the act of June 23, 1910 (36 Stat. L .. 592), authorizing assignment of reclama · tion horne. tead entries. and of the act of A ngust 9, 1912 ( 37 Stat. L., 2G5), authorizing the issunnce of patents on reclama­tion homestead entries to lands in the l!,IHthead irrigation project, l\Iontana; to the Committee on Irrigation of Arid Lands.

EXECUTIVE CO~ll\IUNICATIONS. Under clause 2 of Rule XXIV, executh"e communications were

taken from the Speaker's table and rE>fet·red us follows: 1. A letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, transmitting

copy of compnmication of the Assistant Secretary of tht> Interior submitting estimate of appropriation for the relief of Jacob Wirth for loss of two horses while hired by Geological Survey (H. Doc. No. 110f3) ; to the CommHtee on Appropriations and ordered to be printed.

2. A letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, transmitting copy of communication of the Secretary of the Navy sobmitting estimate of appropriation required by the Navy Department for cle:.ming, repair, and upkeep of grounds and roads ti. t Naval Ob,erratory, Washin.cton, D. C., for fiscal :rear ending June 30 1915 (H. Doc. No. 1107); to the Committee on Appropriation~ and ordered to be printed.

REPORTS OF 001\!UITTEES 0~ PUBLIC BILLS A!\1D RESOLUTIOXS.

Under clause 2 of Rule XIII, J\Ir. DECKER, from the Committee on Interstate and Foreign

Commerce. to which was referred the bill (H. R. li511) to authoriz-e the Great Western Land Co. of l\Iissouri to conzstl'Uct a bridge across the Black Ri\"er, reported the same with amend­ment, accompanied by a report (::\o. 910), which said bill and report were referred to the House Calendar.

PUBLIC BILLS, RESOLUTIONS, AND M&\IORIALS. S. 58~9. An act granting pensions and increase of pensions Under clause 3 of Rule XXII, bills, resolutions, and memorials

to certain soldiers and sailor·s of the Regular Army and ::\avy. were introduced and severally referred as follows: and of wars other thnn the Civil War, and to certaiu widows By Mr. KEATil\"G: A biJI (H. R. 17510) authorizing the Sec­and de11endent relnti\"es of such soldiers and sailors; to the retary ~f War to deliver to Kilpatrick Po t, No. 41, of La Junta, Committee -on Pensions. Colo., two condemned cannon and a suitable outfit of cannon

S. 2 06. An act relative to the appointment, pay, and rank balls; to the Committee on Military .Affairs. of chief warrant officers in the Revenue-Cutter Service; to the By Mr. McGILLICUDDY: A bill (H. R. 17595) to pt·ovide Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. for a site and public building .at Farmington • .Me.; tu the Corn-

S. 5731. An act for the relief of William Cronley; to the Com- mHtee on Public Buildings and Grounds. mittee on l\Jilibtry Affairs. By Mr. BUCHA~.AN of Texas : A bill (H. R. 17506) to pro-

S. 5978. An act to refund to the American Surety Co. of New vide for the purchase of a site for a public building in the city York an ~1mount paid by it to the United States under protest of Lockhart, Tex.; to the Committee on Public Buildings and and to a->oid the levy of an execution under a judgment against Grounds. it. which jud.,!!ment was subsequently re""ersed by the Supreme By Mr. ROBERTS of Massachusetts (by request ): A bill Court of the United Stnte ; to the Committee on Claims. (H_ R. 17597) pt·oviding for tlte purchas~ of the suit of eiothes

R 5218. An act granting pensions and increnFe of pensions to worn by Pt·esiJent Lincoln at the time of his assassination; to certain sol.diers nnd sailors of the Regular Army and X:n-y, ttnd the Committee ou the Library. of \nlrs other than tl.le Civil Wnr. and to certnin widows and By Mr. KAH~: llesolution (H. Res. 561) directing the Sec­dependent relath·es of such soldiers and sailors; to the Com- retary of State to transmit to the House such letters, docu­ru..ittee on Pen ions. ments, or instructions given to Hon. John Lind, special repre-

~. 5~7. An net granting pensions and increase of pensions to sentative of the President of the United States in :Mexico· to certain soldier and sailors of tlte Civil War and <>ertain 1 the Committee on Foreign Affairs. ' widows and de-pendent reluti\'es of such soldiers and sailors; to By l\Ir. PADGE'l'T: Joint Resolution (H. J. Res. 290) author-the C~mmittee on lnval.id. Pensions. . izing officers and enlisted men of the Army and Navy of tile·

S. 2o51. An art prov1dmg for the purchnse and disposal of I.:nited States to wear badges adopted by military societies of eertain l;~nds containing the minei"?ls .. kaolin: kaolinite,. fuller's rr.en wht. served in. the Nicaraguan Expedition duriug the year earth, chma clay, and ball clay, w1th1n portiOns of indian res- 1L12; to the Committee on Naval Affairs. er>ations heretofore opened to settlement and entry; to the By Mr. l\.IOORE: Jojnt resolution (II. J. lles. 201) requesting Committee on the Publlc Lands. \ the President of the United Stntes to invite foreign Governments

S. 1G.'13. An act providing against the ab~ndonment of desti- t v partictp3te in the Internatiorutl Congress on Education; to tute. infirm, or aged par-ents; to the Comm1ttee on the District the Committee on Foreign Affairs. of Columbia.

S. 3i68. An act to restore Copt. Harold L. Jackson, retired. to the active list of the Army; to the Committee on Military Affl:lil'.

S. 2400. An act for the relief of Elsie McDowell Bunting; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

S. 1 02. An act construing the pro>isions of section 8 of the act entitled ".An net to imrlro>e the efficiency of the personnel of the Revenue-Cntter Sernee," approYed April 16, 1008; to the Committee on Inter~tate and Foreign Commerce.

S. oo5. An act authorizing tbe Secretary ()f the Interior to sur>ey the lands of the abandoned F()rt Assinniboine l\lilita ry Reservntion and open the same to settlement; to the Committee on Military Affairs.

S. 543. An act to correct the military record of John T. Haines; to th~ Committee on Military Af'fu.irs.

ADJOUR~MENT~

Mr. STEPHENS o:t Texas. Mr. Spe:J..lrer., I mov·e that the ;House do now adjourn.

PRIVATE BILLS Al\'D RESOLUTIO~S.

Under clause 1 of Rule xxn, private bills and resolutions were introduced and severally referred as follow~ :

By Mr. LESHER: A bill (H. R. 17508) gt·anting an increase of pension to Ut·iah Goldet·; to the Committee on InYalid Pcn­S:~ns.

By 1\Ir. FWOD of Virginia: A bill (H. R. 17590) granting a pension to Marvel J. Nash; to the ·Committee on Pensions.

By '"1r. Ft.OYD of Arkansas: A bill (H. R. 17600) for the relief of the legal representatives of Mary A. Youree, deceased; to the Committee on War Claims.

By Mr. G.ARD: A bill (H. R. 17601) granting an increase ot pension t() Nelson Th<>mpson; to the Committee on Invalid Pen· sions. ·

By Ml'. GOOD: A bill (H. R. 17602) granting an increase of pension to JohnS. Stout; to the CommitteE" on Invalid Pensions.

By Mr. LEWIS of Maryland: A bill (H. R. 17603) for the relief of John T. Walsh; to the Committee on Claims.

1914:- c'ONGRESSION At -RECOltD-HOUSE.

By Mr. llOBERTS of MasS!lchusetts: A bill (H. R. 17004) grunt4ng a pension to Fran-cis Prendergast; to the Committee' on Peus1ons.

Also. a bill (H. R. 17605) granting an incrense of pension to Benry D . .1\foulton ;. to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

By l\1r. SLOA~: A bill (H. H. 17GOO) granting an i?crease of pension to DaYi<f Kelley; t'O the Gommittee on Invalid Pen­sions.

AI o, a bill (II. n. 17607) grnnting an increase of pension to 1William McKenney; to the Committee on Innllid Pensi<l~s.

By 1\Ir. S~ITTH of Idaho: A bill (H. R. 17608) grantm~ an incrense of pension to Charles H. Stansbury; to the Comm1ttee on Invalid Pensions.

Mr. SAl\IUEL W. SlflTH: A bill (H. n. 17G09) granting an incrense of pension to William W. Cook; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

PETITIONS, ETC. Under- clnuse 1 of Rule XXII, petitions and papers were laid

on the Clerk'R CleRk nnd referred as follows: Bv the SPEAKER (by request) : llesolution signed by the

pastor of the Methodist Episcopal Cbnrcb of 'Yinfield, Io_wa, protesting against the practice of polygamy m the Umted States: to the Committee on the Judiciary.

By 1\Ir. AIXEY: Petition of sundry citizens of- New Albany. Pa., f:n·oring nationnl prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By l\I1·. AXSBERRY: Petition of the' Snndny School of St. Paul's Methodist Episcopal Church, of Napoleon, Ohio. and sundry dtizens of S<·ott. Ohio, favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

AI o. petitions of H. A. Dertrlck and others, of Ohio. pro­testing against national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By l\lr. BAILEY (by request) : Petition of 200 citizens of Altoona, Pn .. and a mnss meeting of citizens at Hollidays Methodist Episcopal Cbnrcb, at Hollidaysburg. Pa., favoring national p1~ohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

Also (by reque~t), petition of :.;undry citizens of Ro:ui~g S"pring, Pa., fn voring pnssnge of the SteYens bill (H. R. 13305) ; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce.

Al~o (by request), petition of the Blair County ( Pa.) Liquor Dealers' As ociation. protesting against national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By Mr. BELL of California: :Mem~ r1n1 of the Fcrty-se-venth Annnnl Encampment of the California and Nevada Grand Army of the Republic. protesting against change in the American fl.ag; to the Committee on the Jnrlicincy.

Also, petition of W. S. Pnrker and 38 others. of Monrovia, Cal.. f:woring national prohibition; to the Committee on llnles.

Bv Mr. BOOHER: Petition of 400 citizens of Buchanan County, Mo., urotestlng against national prohibition; to the Committee on Ru-les.

By ~Jr. BRUCK:\'ER: Petition of the Btlffalo (N. Y.) Live Stock As ·ociation. faYoring Senate bill 4522; to the Committee on InterstHte and Forei~n Commerce.

Also, petition of the Army Field Clerks' Association. favoring House bill 9~7. relnth·e to increase in pay for- Army field clerks; to the Committee on 1\liiHary Affairs.

Also. petition of Eleonora Youtcheff. of New York. favoring ciYil-serYice retirement bill; to the Committee on Reform in the Ch·il Service.

Also. petition of the North Side Board of Trade of New York, f:noring ~ennte bill ~5!30, to improve the port of New York; to the Committee on nlvers nnd Harbot·s.

By hlr. D.:\LE: Petition of the ::'\ew York Stnte Federation of Labor. fnvorin~ the pass11ge of the sen men's bill; to the Com­mittee on the ~lerchnnt :\Iarine and Fisheries.

Also, petition of Claflin, Tbnyer & Co., of New York, pro­testing agninst the Clayton antitrust bill; to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Also, memorial of the General Post Office Letter Carriers• MntnHl Benefit A socintion of ::'\ew ¥ork City. protesting agninst ~ection 6 of Hou!'le bill 12928; to the Committee on the Post Otfic·e and Post Ronds.

By :\fr. DILLOX: Petition of sundry citizens of Yankton. S. Dak., favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By 1\Ir. DOXOHOE: Petition of the Summerfield Methodist Episcopal Church. of Phil:1rlelpbin. Pa .. and the Seventh United Presbyterinn Church, of Pbiladelphin, Pa.; mass meeting of citi­zens of Sim)lson :\Iemorinl :\Jetbodist Episcopal Church 11nd tbe Fox Chase Methodist Episcopa I Church. of Philadelphia, Pa .. f~noring national pr'ohibi tion; to the Committee on Rn:es.

By .:\1r. DOOLITTLE: Petitions of 00 c·itizens of OIRburg. 15 ' citizens of Burlington, 90 citiz_ens of Empor~a, and mass meet-

ings of citizens of CHbonda!e and Aulne. all in the State of Kansas, favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on· Rules.

By l\1r. FLOOD of Vir.,.inia: Petitions of sundry citizPus of Waynesboro. Staunton. Buena Yista. Amherst, and Appomattox, all in the Stnte of Virginia, favoring House bill 530'3. to ta:X: mail-order houses; to the Committee on Ways and l\Ie:~ns

Also, petition of Mrs. W. W. King, ~Irs. J. X. Sublett, and others, of Staunton, Ya .. fnvoring woman-suffrage legislation; to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Also. petition of the Southern Conference of Yir~inia Synod, I'epresentiug 3.000 people, favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules. _

By 1\Ir. FLOYD of' Arkansas: Petition of Rev. N. M. Ragland, Dr. J. T. Hight, and others. of fi""':~yettenlle, Ark .. urging Fed­eral lel!islation for woman suffrage; to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Also. petition of 400 citizens of Siloam Springs, Ark., favor­ing national prohibition: to the Committee on Hnles.

By l\lr. GITTI~S: Petition of Gertrude Franchot Tone. H. H. Amberg. and others, of Xiagara Falls, N. Y .. urging FPrleral legislation for woman suffrage; to the Committee on the Judi­ciary.

By Mr. GOEKE: Petition of the Christian Endenvor Society and Sunday School of the Church of Christ. of Lewis. Ohio, fa,·oring national prohibition; to the Committee on H.ules.

By l\Ir. GOOD: Petition of sundry citizens of )In rion. Iowa, favoring national probibit1on; to the Committee on Hules.

AIRo. petition of vnriou~ hnRinesR men of Tipton. Io~·a. favor­ing passage of Honse bill 5308. relntive to taxing mail-order bouse : to the Committee on Ways and Means.

By Mr. H.A~n10~'D: P'etition of ~nndry citizens of Pipestone, Minn., favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

Also, petition of 25 citizens of Jackson, Minn .• and 19 citizens of Monnt::~in Lak~. Minn., protesting against national prohibi­tion; to the Committee on Rnles.

By Mr. HELM: Petition of 51 citizens of Kentucky, favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rnles.

By Mr. HE:\'SLEY: Petitions of sundry citizens of the thir­teenth 1.\fissouri district, favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

Also. petitions of sundry citizens of the thirteenth Missouri di trict, against national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By Mr. JOHXSON of Washington: Petition of various citizens of Petersburg, Alaska. supporting prohibition in Alaska; to the­Committee on the Territories.

Also, petitions of fl.undry citizens of Vancouver and Elms, Wash., protesting against national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

Also, petitions of 100 citizens of Shelton. 21 citizens of Port Angeles. 66n citiz~ns of Hoqnimn. nntl sundry citizens of HHy­mond and of Clarke County, all in the St<-lte of Washington, favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rule .

Also. memorial of the Uocky ~lonntaiu Association. United Mine Workers of America, favoring passage of House bill 16098; to the Committee on Patents.

By Mr. KEISTER: Petition of sundry citizens of Jennnette, Pa .. in the twenty-second congressional di ~ tJ·ict of Penusyl­vania, faYoiing the pnssuge of Honse joint resolution 168, pro­Yiding for a prohibition amendment; to the Commlttee on Rules.

Also. memorial of the Cbri tian Endeavor Society of the­Presbyterian Church of Zelienople. Pa., favoring national pr()­bibition; to the Committee on Rules.

Also. petition of Ualph \'eachle. of Pricedale, Pa .• protesting agninst national prohibition; to the Committee on Rule .

By ::\1r. KEXXEDY of Iowa: Petitions of sundry citizens ot Winfield. i\Iediapolis. Albia, Wa hingtoo, and Y<~rmouth, all in the State of Iowa, favoring national prohibition; to the­Committee on Rules.

By Mr. KEXNEDY of Rhode Island: Petition of sundt·y citi­zens of Rhode Ishtnd, favoring national prohibition; to the· Committee on Rules.

Also, petitions of Joseph J. Flynn. Joseph H. Clear, and James Flynn. all of Pe~wtuck~t. H. I.. pl'otesting against nation-wide prohibition: to the Committee on Rnles.

Also. petition of the Trinity Union l\lethodist Episcopal Church. of Providence. R. I., favoring nation-wide prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By Mr. J. H. KNOWLA~D: Six protefl.ts against adoption o% prohibition constitutional nrnendment from residents of Oak­land, Cal.; to the Committee on Rules.

11514 CONGRESSIONAL -RECORD-HOUSE. Ju~Y l,_

Also, 15 petitions from residents of Pacific Grove, San Fran­cisco, Vallejo, Greenfield, Long Beach, Pasadena, Los Angeles, all in the State of California, favoring the prohibition con­stitutional amendment; to the Committee on Rules.

By Mr. LANGLEY: Petition of Elizabeth Scoville, Cynthia E. Flanery, and others of Posey, Ky., favoring Federal legis­lation for woman suffrage; to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Dy JHr. LEE of Pennsylvania: Petition of sundry citizens of Pottsville, Pa., favoring woman suffrage; to the Committee on the Judiciary.

By Mr. LESHER : Petition of Alice M. Robins and others, of Bloomsburg, Pa., urging legislation for woman suffrage; to the Committee on the Judidary.

By 1\fr. LEVY: Petition of 14 business men and other citizens of New York, against national prohibition; to the Committee on Rnles.

Also, petition of Jacob Levit and D. E. Lynch, of New York City. favoring civil-service retirement bill; to the Committee on Reform in the Civil Service.

By Mr. LEWIS of Maryland: Petition of various members of the Locu~t Valley Church of God, Christian Endeavor, and mis­sionary societies, for the passage of House joint resolution 168, to prohibit the sale of intoxicating liquors; to the Committee on Rules.

Also, petition of various members of the Young People's Society for Chri tian. Endeavor of St. Paul's Lutheran Church, of Cumberland, l\ld., for the passage of House joint resolution 168, to prohibit the sale of intoxicating liquors; to the Commit­tee on Rules.

By Mr. LO~TERGAN: Petition of G. A. Sauer, of Hartford, Conn., protesting against the adoption of Hobson resolution for national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules. _

By Mr. MAGUIRE of Nebraska: Petitions of Anna Korendn and Amy E. Marble, of Tablerock; Mrs. P. M. Hall and 500 others, of Lancaster County; C. P. McGeri. of Falls City; :Mrs. George Schwaser and others, of David City, all in the State of Nebraska, urging Federal legislation ·for woman suffrage; to the Committee on the Judiciary.

. By Mr. MITCHELL: Petition of A. Gertrude Dudley, Mar­garet C. Colgate, and others, of Rockland, Mass., urging woman. suffrage legislation; to the Committee on the Judiciary. ·

By Mr. MOORE: Telegrams from the Enterprise Laundry Co., E. W. Fischer & Sons, the Fred Feil Brewing Co., the Oxford Silk Co., and sundry citizens, all of Philadelphia, Pa .. protest­ing against national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

Also, petition of the Christian Endeavor Society of the First Church of the Covenanters of Philadelphia, Pa., favoring na­tional prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By Mr. MOIU~ (by request) : Petitions of sundry citizens of Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Allegheny County, all in the State of Pennsylvania, against national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

.Also (by request), petition of the Waverly Oil Works Co., of Pittsburgh, Pa., favoring Senate bill 5550. to remove from mo­nopoly control the transportation and storage of petroleum oil; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce.

Also (by request), p~:>tition of sundry citizens of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, Pa., favoring House bill 13305, to tax mail­order houses; to the Committee on Ways and Means.

Also (by request), petition of the city council of Bradford, Pa., favoring House bill 5139, for civil-service retirement; to the Committee on Reform in the Civil Service.

Also (by request), petition of the American National Retail Jewelers' Association, favoring House bill 2972, relative to time guaranties on gold-filled watches; to the Committee on Inter­state and Foreign Commerce.

Also (by reque t), petition of sundry citizens of Pittsburgh. Pa., relative to antitrust legislatron; to the Committee on the Judiciary. ·

Also (by request), petition of sundry citizens of Philippine Islc.mds relatiYe to present tariff law; to the Committee on ·wuys and Means.

.Also (by request), petition of sundry citizens of Pittsburgh. Pn .. favoring bill relath·e to liability for loss of live stock in shipment; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Com­merce.

Also (by request), petition of sundry citizens of Pittsburgh. Pn., favoring !lou e bill 14328; to the Committee on the Post Office and Po t Road .

Also (by request), petition of the Building T1·ades De11artment, American Federation of Labor, favoring House bUl . 85D~ to protect workmen in the Di ' trict of Columbia; to the Commit-tee on the Distr·ict of Columbia. ·

.Al o (by request), petitions of sundry citizens of McCrea, P1ttsburgh, .Allegheny County, and Allentown, all in the State of Pennsylvania, favoring national prohibition; to the Com­mittee on Rules.

By Mr. J. I. NOLAN: Petitions of sundry citizens of the State o:t California, favoring the passage of the prohibition constitutional amendment now pending before Congress; to the Committee on Rules.

Also, petition of the San E'ran<>isco Chamber of Commerce, favoring House bill 15986, to prevent transmission of false statements through the mails; to the Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads. .

By Mr. O'LEARY: Petitions of Jarvis, Lnke & Grandvitle, of Far Rockaway, and Willinm H. Hahn, the :\1anufHcturers and Dealers' League, and the Pressler & Hassb<lcher Chemical c ·o .. of New York City, protesting against national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

Also, l)€'tition of tbe East Buffnlo Live Stock Association, favoring passage of Senate -bill 4·522; to the Committee on In­terstate and Foreign Commerce.

Also, petition of G. F. ~Iurray, of New York; G. H . Miller, Catllerine G. Whitford. H. B. Belcher, and sundry citizeng of Elmhur!;;t, all of the State of New York, favoring national pro­hibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By l\Ir. O'SHAUNESSY: Petitions of 567 citizens of Provi­dence, and delegates to conference held in Provioence, the Chris­tian Endeavor Society of the People's Church of Auburn, nnd the quarterly conference of the Thnmes Street Methodist El1is­copal Church of Newport, the Christian Endeavor Societie~ of Elmwood Avenue of Providence. the Pearl Street Bapti t Christian Endeavor Society of Providence, and of the First Baptist Church of East Providence. and Christian Endee:wor Society of the Church of Ghrist of Pro,·idence, all in the Stute of Rhode Island, favoring national prohibition; to the Commit­tee on Rules.

By Mr. PAIGE of Massachusetts: Petition of sundry citizens of Fitchburg, 1\fass.; the First Baptist Church and Central Con­gregational Church of Orange, Mass., favoring national pro­hibition; to the Committee on Rules .

By Mr. PAYNE: Petitions of sundry citizens of the thirty­sixth congressional district of the State of New York, favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

Also, petitions of sundry citizens of tlle thirty-sixth con­gressional district of the State of New Yot·k, protesting against national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By l\Ir. REED: Letters from Arthur R. Layman, of Do•er; Rev. Irving J. Enslin, of Derry; D. M. Rowe, Rev. F. L. Wiley, and Arthur l\f. Shnttuck, of Laconia; Fred ·H. Smith. of Mer~ dith; Willis F. Otis, of Strafford; Rev. WUliam G. Berkeley, of Newington; Tilton C. H. Bouton, of Hudson: l\:Irs. H. C. Remick, of Concord; Charles F. Ruee. of Da:uville; Howard L. Winslow, of Salem; Oscar Fask, of East Candia; and ~att. F. Platts, of Manchester, all in the State of New Hampshire, favoring n~­tional prohibition of the liquor traffic; to the Committee on Rules.

By l\Ir. REILLY of Connecticut: Petition of sundry citizens of Milford and New Haven, Conn., favoring national prohibi­tion; to the CommHtee on Hules.

By Mr. SLOAN: Resolution of the Baptist Church of Wy­more, Nebr., and a public meeting at Wymore, Nebr., in favor of national constitutional prohibition amendment; to the Com­mittee on Rules.

By l\lr. SAMUEL W. Sl\IITH: Petition of 85 citizens of De­troit, Mich., favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By l\fr. TAYLOR of New York: Petition of 264 voters of tlle twenty-fifth congressional district of New York. again t pa sage of Hobson-Sheppard-Works resolutions for national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By Mr. TEN EYCK (by request) : Petition of John T. Birge and 110 members of the Second Presbyterian Church. of Troy, N. Y., in favor of the passage of the Hob. on r~solution for na­tional prohibition; to the Committee on Rules .

By Mr. THOMSO~ of Illinois: Petition of 24 citizens of Chi­cago, Ill., favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules. ·

By l\lr. UNDERHILL: Petition of sundry ci t izens of Cam­eron, Ithaca, Addison, and Corning, the First Presbyterian Church of Canisteo, the Methodist Episcopal Cbnrch of Cunton, the Methodist Episcopal Ghi1rch of Apnlncbin, the Fil'st Baptist Church of Canton, and sundry citizeus of Chemnu~ County, all in the Stnte of Xew York, faYol'ing national prohibition; to the Committee on Uules.

.,..,:

•

1914. CONGRESSIONAL RECO~~SENATE_. .11515 Also, petiUon of -sundry citizens .of Chemung County, Mecklen­

burg, Freeville, and Rutt.bone, all in the State of New York, favoring n<ltional prohibition; to tbe Committee on ..Rules.

By .Mr. ·wHITACllE: Petition of 25 citizens of New Water · ford, 60 citizens of Canton, and a mass meeting 11t La.ke,·me, all in the State of Ohlo, favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

By l\1r. WILLIAl\IS: Petitions of sundry citizens :of ..Astoria, Rl., fa voTing nationnf prohibition; to tbe Committee on Rui€s.

Also, petitions of sundry citizens of Kewanee, I~ and tlw North American Skat League, protesting against national pro­hibition; to tbe Committee on Rules.

By Mr. WILLIS: Petition of George T. :Seibert. of Urbana, Ohio, protesting against the adoptioo of HDuse joint r.esolntion 168, relating to national prorubition; to the Committee on Rules.

By 1\fr. WOODRUFF: Petition of Rose T. Far.rier, Edith M. Schmaler, tmd others, of Montgomery County; Olive N. Ewing, N. Kate Backus, and others, of Harbor Springs; and H.arrietr Jane Comstock, 1\lary L. Ulertlient, and others, uf Alpena, all m the Stu te of Michigan. fa "·oring woman--suffrage !legislation ; to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Also, petition of sundry Citizens of Hope and ·Onaway, l\fieh., favoring national prohibition; to the Committee on Rules.

SENATE. THuRSDAY, July~, 1914.

q'he Senate met at 11. o'clock a. m. Re,·. A. J. Dieldnson, D. D., of Birmingham, Ala., offered the

following prayer: Most grudous God. we thank Thee for C:lUl' country and for

the civiliziltion that we bold in trust for coming nges. We pray Thee that Thy blessing may attend this g1·eat laud. Gnide Thou this House in it~ deliberaJions and promote peace and huppiness among men. Guid-e, we pray T.hee. the Senators -in their .hlkjng of counsel one with another. :.e11d .u::; to right ends. M:ly we lin:! to Thy glory, and may prosperity attend the land. And unto Thee Thou King Etemal, invisible, Thou only ;wise God, be the glory forever and eYe1·. Amen. _

The Journal ofyesterday's ·proeeedings·was read and approved. FINDINGS OF THE COURT OF CLAIMS.

· The VICE PRESIDENT. Thlrty-nine Senators have an­swered to the roll calL There is not :a quorum present. 'l'be Se<:~tury will call the absentees.

The Secretary ca11ed the names of the -absent .Senators, and Mr. STONE and 1\lr. VARDAMAN answered to their numes when called.

1\Jr. nu PONT entered the Chamber and answered to his name.

The VICE PRESIDE...~T. Forty-two Senators haYe answered to the roll call. There is not a quot·urn preseut.

Mr. KERX. I move that thB Sergeant a.t Arms be dkec.ted to request the 11ttendance of :tbsent Senators~

The motion was agreed to. Tbe VICE PRESIDE~T. The Sergeant 'lt Arms is instr.octed

to request the attendance of absent Senators. He :will ex:ecnte the order of the Senate.

.Mr. o·GoRMaN. Mr. POINDEXTER, 1\lr. -cLARKE of Arkamm-s, Mr. i()LA.PP, Mr. KL~ON. M.r. THOMPSON, 1\Ir. CEriT..T()N, and ~l.r.. Ov:ERMAN entered thP. Chamber .and answered to their names.

1\Ir. S~100T. I desire to announce tbe nnavoidnble absence of the senior Senator from Illinois [1\lr. "SHERM~N J on ae.eonut of iUness 1n hi:-~ familyA He· bas a general pair with the :Sen­atoT from S<mtb 'C:u-o.lina [Mr. TILLMAN]~

The YICE PRESJDEXT. Fifty Senators have answered to the roll cn1J. There is .a qnor·um present.

. .Mr. KER~. I movoe that the order direffing the Sergeant ·at Arms to request the attendance of absent Senators -b~ vacated.

The motion was agreed to. ADJOURNMENT OVER 'THE FOURTH OF ;JUL'Y.

"f~Ir. KERX I move that when the Senate adjo.urns on FI'iday e>ening, which is to-nwn:ew evening, it he untill\londuy follaw­ing, at 11 o'clock a. m.

The motion was agreed to. MONUMLJVT TO "PRESIDENT JOHN "TYLEB.

.,..fh-e VICE PRESIDENT. Some time since tbe .senate of the United States and the House passed a concurrent resolutiml eallin-g npon the Chair to appoint trre ·Senators to attend the un­~·ei l-ing ceremonies of tile monument to bE> erected ovei' tbe gra ,.e of ·tbe late President of the- United States. John Tyler. In emn .. plianee with the proYisions of the concurrent resol-ntion r( S. Con. Res 22) the Chair appoiuts Mr. MA.RlliN of Virginia .. Mr. SWANSON, ~Ur. CBll..TON, Mr. •GOFF, and l\Jr. GALLINGER membel'S of the joint committee on the pa.1·t of the Senate t.o .represent the ,congress of the United States. The VICE PHESIDENT laid lJefore the Renate a communica­

tion from the assistant clerk of the Court of Claims, tt·ansmit-ting certified copies of the findin~ of fact and conclusions filed PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS. by the eonrt in the fotlowing causes: Mr. DU PONT. I pr,esent a resolution adopted at a meeting

Mrs. Vitha B. McClendon. administrat~ix of Jael McClendon. of the Delaware Bankers' A~sociation held .at Lewes, DeL~ "·United States and Jean Michael Vendenheim -v. United States on June 18, remonstrating agninst tbe enac-tment of lt-gislation (S. Doc. ~o. ·529). so far as it relates to interlocldng directorates of 'banks. I nl'ik · The foregoinO' findings were, with the -a-ccompanying papers, that the resolution may be printed iD the REcoRD and referred referred to the Committee on Claims and ordered to be printed. I t<', !he Com~ittee on .the. Judiciary. .

CALLING OF THE ROLL. 1 he~·e bemg no obJe<;t~on, the .resolution was referred to the ,u· JOl"TES M p "d t ii "ust t S to th Committee on the Jud1c1a.ry and ordered to be printed in the .~..ur. , . r. reSI en: , see J , wo ena rs on e IlECORD as follows.

other side of the Chamber. I .raise the po-int of no qnornm. ' · The V'ICE PRESIDKNT. The Sect•eta.ry V"ill cull the .r.oll .

DRLA.WARE BA:'II'Kl'!RS1 ASSOCIATIO~, WUminoton., JJeL, Ja.me to, 191-f.

The Secretar:y cAlled the roll, and the ;following S.enato..rs an- Hon. H. A. ou PoN:r, swered to their nn mes. TJnited States .Se11.ate, Washin,gton. D. o.

DEAR SENATOR oti PoNT: At a meeting of the Delaware State nankers-~~gyrst P,~!{lcnbg~.am Nouts ~~~~nd Association. held at Lewes on June 18 the hill 1 H. R. 1Ii631} relatmg

B·randeoooe Galling""· PPa.gerkem· .. '""--rna" to interlocking directoratP's was fully ,discussed. and the :follow1n.,.. resG-cv • "L " ... uv " :lotion unail.imouslv adopled: "'

~~{.f~gb ~o~~~es Ram;den Thornton "ResoLud. That we at·e strongly opposed to tbi~ bill for tbe reason tha.t Burton Kern ~~~~rd TO"-'nsend we 'be-lieve it will deplt>te the numbt>rs and lmpait· the t>ffirie.Jcy -of our Catron Lane Rimmons ~:~~~n bank boat·ds by robbing tbt"m of many of OU:r -.,tL•on~pgt members .at lne C.hamherlaln Marth!, va. Rmlth, Ga. White v~ry ti:ml' tbl'il" services are moE't nel'dt>d-oat·ticuJarly 1~ :this tr.ue or

. smaller cities and towns-and impair confidence b:v tParln~.; ,down and CuJbp,rson Martine. N. J~ Smith, .Mich. Works 1owerin!! the tont> of bank mana_zt>mt>nts. a11d in many wa ~ in·terft·re Cummins NPwland-s Smoot 1 with the successful Jauocblrur and opet:atlon of .tbt> Feden\1 •l't'SP't·ve

l\1r. Sl\IITH of Georgia. I desire to state that my colleague, · a.ct, whicb fact is of such importance as to overshadow any -IE.'gislatlon the junior Senator from Georgia [Mr. W rEST] .. is still detai~..~ed wb1cb undPr ol'het· rh·cumstancl'l'! might seem advi~abll'. Wt> bl'Jleve

t'bat tbe bankers and b-usiness men are mot·e an·rious P-Vf'n than our in hiS .f00ill rOll 3C'<'0UUt Of the injury .be ,rf'Ce.iVed a feW dayS legislators to eliminate fi'OID ltbe ne-w SVStPm tbe a.l>US('S that llaVE.' .c.rer~t ago. I hnve a g.eneral pnir with the senior .Senator from :\1assu- into thP' ,old. a:nd t:llat lt>g.i'ilation is unneceH!<ar.v to at'campli b this t>ntl. chusetts [:\1r. LoDGE]. 1 wish to transfer thtlt pair for -the At lea-st. give them a cham·e. Wl' beliPV(' thnt the welding togetne1·

l> ,0 r a J?;reat rua-ss (:)<( stron~ banks and stron~ mPn is es ·entla-1 to the day to the juniol' Senator from Georgia. So I will vote during success of tbe pla:n. a:n<l that it is unwise to JegiHlate all;ain~t the wbvie the day, in view of the transfer of my pair, and I will not an- . couo.tTY for thE.' pm•pasP .o.t .cru·r.e.cting abuses existing in one local.ity." nounce it ::~gain. Rem>e.e.tfo.lly s.ubmitU!d. :WrLLIA~I WINDeR I.AIRD .

.hlr. KEH:\. I d~sire to announce the absence of fbe jun1or TJ'ilm-ingto'~ Trust -co.., Senator from Sou.th Carolina [Mr. SmTH]. who .is unavoidably ' JoH;.; RtCAt\Roso;.; . . Jr .. detained. .;md also the absen('e of the Senator from Xortb Caro- ~~1~~~ ~~~~~~ Delau;at-e, lina [:\Jr. 0\-EBMA.l-,j, the SenatOL' from Kansas [:U:r. THOMPSON}, Farmers' BMk ot Wilmingto-n, tne Re.oator frorn West Virginia [lir. CHILTON l. the Senator · · Dommit~e. tr.om Iowa [Mr. KENYON.]. the Senatot· from Minnesota [:\1-r. · Mr. TIU PO~T presented a petition of Cnpitlll .t-ir<:u:;g~ CLAPP], and tbe Senator from T_e.onessee [.Mr. LEAl, w.bo are Patrons of Husbandry, of no~eL DeJ.. favoring Government absent on business of the Senate. bejng in ::~ttend.ance Qpon a ownership of teJ.egr::t,ph .a.nd telephone lines. w.hicb was re.fened crunmittee. This unn.o-\lllcement may stnnu f.or the .day. -to the Committee en P.ost Offices and Post .Roads.

I