Manslaughter Accusation by detractors of Lucumi Baba Awo, ogbe sa Charles Spencer King proven...

Manslaughter Accusation by detractors of Lucumi Baba Awo, ogbe sa CharlesSpencer King proven COMPLETELY FALSE and fabricated

It seems I am now being accused of Manslaughter by Ayo Salami’sminions, Falokun’s minions, and anyone else who chooses to ignore thefacts, the truth, and the evidence. Indeed it is a very long read, yet formany on the outside looking in it is full of scandal and intrigue. In the

comments you will read not only the responses of Ayo Salami, but the obaof oba’s (King of Kings) the oba of the ogboni that is the judicial arm ofTraditional IFA in Nigeria. Indeed I am representing the facts to provethis preposterous accusation (by individuals, not any legal body) false.

However my request to those who have the patience to read through theevidence thoroughly to consider those who are making these ridiculousaccusations and to being them to account and distance yourselves from

them. This includes Awo Fategbe, IfaBi, O’fae O’fae, Awo Ifakolade, Apena(Adam Peretz),Carman, Jaap, Bertha and anyone else who continues tospread lies about me. Ifa is about truth first and foremost and Orunmilaand truth are on my side, not theirs as the evidence I am presenting will

prove clearly and completely.

Today

6:39am

Erinmi Awo Alaafin Oyo

Hey Charles! Aboru aboye o. How are you? This is Jim in Chicago.

6:42am

Charles Spencer King

aboye, abosise I am fine and you?

7:45am


Cool, getting ready to freeze here. Another polar vortex is headed our way. Iwanted to get in touch with you to run something by you. You know in this crazyplace of social media people have come to believe places like Facebook are real;people have come to believe its a really place. Anyone with a keyboard can do, sayor become anything they want.Anyway, some people have brought something to my attention but as Ifa says youalways have to hear both sides of a story. If not you can't be a good judge of asituation. The news is a good example. Too many people jump on a band wagonand automatically believe whatever they say on the news. They convict with whatappears on the T.V. news. Craziness! hahahaha.As you may know, Ayo Salami passed away a little over two weeks ago. The causewas a stroke. Its a very bad thing because he has left behind three young childrenwithout a father in the world. They are saying though that just before it happenedhe had read something on the internet, Facebook that is, that really upset him. Itwas this:

7:45am


7:46am


They are saying that the above statement was what set it off, that you may havebeen apart of what caused his death, that caused the death of an Ifa Priest.Anyway, I told them I don't believe it. Besides the fact that you are grown man,you are also an Awo Ifa. That you know and practice Iwa Pele and only use yourwords to help heal, teach, and say/do positive things. To be a good example foreveryone.But, with the "screen grab" above, and there is more writing than just that, anyonewith a key board can "fix" or "create" whatever they want and make it look real.I just wanted to make sure you DIDN'T write this. I like to make sure and giveeveryone their side of a story. Its not cool to just accept and believe one side. We

as priest of Ifa are not judges, we are only witnesses to destiny. I don't think youwould do something like that.

7:58am


Interesting. Let me explain this and feel free to share my response. But first thismay explain it better or at least some background, also thanks for asking. Read thiswhile I am writing the next part of my responsehttps://www.academia.edu/8997890/D%C3%ADa_de_los_Muertos_Ayo_Salami_Orunmila_y_Orun_Day_of_The_Dead_Ayo_Salami_Orunmila_and_Orun_English_Y_espanol_Fotos_Photos_

Día de los Muertos, Ayo Salami, Orunmila y Orun ~ Day of The Dead , AyoSalami, Orunmila and...

www.academia.edu

Día de los Muertos, Ayo Salami, Orunmila y Orun ~ Day of The Dead , Ayo Salami,Orunmila and Orun ~ English Y espanol (Fotos~ Photos)

8:15am


Now, I can supply the exact particulars but I assume you might know thesituations. 1) Ayo was accused and found guilty (by the Ogoboi (not by me) ofwearing stolen Chief's beads. These can be seen clearly on Awo Kool Ade's videoson You Tube. At the time the new oba of the ogboni (Kayibesi) had just been swornin and the case lingered. During this time Ayo stated that the oba was a fraud anddid not speak English and a few other disparaging remarks (and I have all of this in

writing) Well the oba responded very directly and clearly and called Ayo to thepalace. Ayo apologized profoundly, but this was not the only issue. Te issue of Ayo'straining (or lack of it) also came out and while he did tefa and recieved ase, he hadvery little formal training apparently or according to the ogboni (again I was notinvolved in any of this,,,all I did was helped him in the preliminary stages of theinvestigation with protocol and then I was not involved. However I was reporting onit as certainly it was and is important, not so much for his credentials but those he"made" and ceremonies he led that he was not trained, qualified or had permissionfrom his ile to preform. As I said in the first piece Ayo made restitution agreed notto lead ceremonies etc and the incidents should have been over. However mycommentating pissed his minions off (mush the same as my commentating pissesFalokun and Neimark's minions off. Now let me explain the screen shot....

8:15am


Well, anyway be careful. That are talking about it in Nigeria and a few other places.I wouldn't have bothered you with it except an English speaking Ifa priest in Cubacontacted me about it to ask if I knew you and if it were true. You know how it is,they thing all the Ifa priests here live in the same barrio hahhahaha

8:19am


I get ya. But they're just saying that an Awo shouldn't say such things/act like thatno matter what. In other words, a person is "guilty" or "not guilt" but someoneshouldn't go around throwing knives, etc. Ugggg

8:30am


This was in response to Ayo calling the oba a fraud...something that was clearlyproven to be a baseless and false accusation, thus it is being taken out of context.Secondly, it seems the minions are not only taking it out of context , but absolutelyAyo was in the same conversation and again I have this, and can provide it. . Butfirst simply look at the dates!!!!! Over a year old, before his situations were

resolved satisfactorily.. Those who are saying this shocked him and caused a heatattack is nonsense, rubbish and fabrication. 1) It was not news to him, he was inthe conversation, 2) the dates, he had more than a year to mull this....3) ObviouslyI was joking about the executioner, in any case I was not one of his judges theogboni was, nor was I an investigator. The fact is he made stupid ass commentsabout the oba and was caught by the oba and his ogboni... so I am getting accusedbecause I commented and hoted a conversation between Ayo and the oba andogboni???? Laughable. My head is clear....Let me get the who text for you.... giveme a few to pull it and that will resolve this nonsense and then my enemies canstart searching for something else...however my conscious is clear...and the factssupport me (other than my poor taste in a joke) but again the dates man the dates.and suggesting imprisonment or an executioner comes AFTER a trial, not before...

8:45am


Here is the entire conversation.....and the comments are what are relevant andprove conclusively what I stated that Ayo knew and was part of this conversationmore than a year ago..... https://www.facebook.com/notes/charles-spencer-king/three-authors-ayo-salami-awo-falokun-fatunmbi-david-wilson-philip-neimark-and-wh/10151720413604813

Three Authors: Ayo Salami; Awo Falokun Fatunmbi (David Wilson); PhilipNeimark and Why they are in Hot Water

If you study our religion, you probably own at least one book by at least one ofthese authors. First we will list their books, then we'll discuss the fireworks,investigations, cases, and judgments

By: Charles Spencer King

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Three Authors: Ayo Salami; Awo Falokun Fatunmbi (David Wilson); PhilipNeimark and Why they are in Hot WaterJune 9, 2013 at 12:02pm

Public

If you study our religion, you probably own at least one book by at least one ofthese authors. First we will list their books, then we'll discuss the fireworks,investigations, cases, and judgments against them. Why am I uniquely qualified to

discuss these three? There are two reasons, the first is obvious,because I am anauthor as well. The second is that unlike this trio or the vast majority of otherauthors who write on Orisha worship and IFA, I do not do A) IFA consultations orreadings to the public or have clients, B ) Do not have godchildren and won't. C)Do not participate in public ceremonies bestowing rank, title, IFA powers, isefas,itefas, crowning, ori, warriors, mano/cofa etc. or any other for profit activities thatinclude The Dead, The Ancestors, Orisha Worship (ocha), and IFA. I do howevermake a modest profit from my books and intellectual properties, occasionallyparticipate in conferences, mostly in Cuba where I am sometimes paid for mypresence and commentary and travel expenses.

The reasons I am lumping these three together is they are similar. Each hasmany hundreds of devotees and clients, each is an author of multiple books on ourreligion (as I am). Whatever your specific tradition is or whether you are a devoteeor a professional the credentials for our religion is the same, There are threeelements (or components) that confirm credibility. These are: 1) Ashe/ase/ache. Bewe speaking of orisha worship or IFA the ashe you receive (or pay for) comesspecifically from the leader of the ceremony you are participating in and his (or her)specific lineage. 2) Training. In order to lead (or even participate in ceremonies,services, consultations, or any other paid service we need to have training, Not alltraining is equal, different ile and traditions have different levels of training somemore rigorous and arduous than others, but obviously those leading need to betrained. More pointedly is the leader needs to be trained to the satisfaction of hiselders, council, araba etc, to be effective. 3) The leader needs to be sanctioned andhave current permissions of his (or her) superiors, just like a doctor needs a currentmedical licence, a teacher needs a current certificate, or a lawyer needs to be amember in good standing (currently) of a state or countries bar association. So it iswith our religion, yet it is noteworthy to mention that traditional Yorubalandpractices have a more structured hierarchy than most of the traditions (like Lucumi)based in diaspora.

Ayo Salami: Has a large clientele and devotee base primarily in the US, yetalso worldwide. His books include:1) Yoruba Theology and Tradition - TheGenealogy (2008), 2) Yoruba Theology and Tradition - The Man and theSociety (2008), 3) Yoruba Theology and Tradition - The Worship (2008), Ifa: AComplete Divination (2009), He may have others, but this is what Amazon offers.

Mr. Salami claims to be a Babalawo, completed his formal training, and havecurrent permissions in order from his Yorubaland Araba and council of elders.However apparently, none of these claims are true. This is not to say thatMr.Salami does not have or share knowledge in his books, he does. Yet where itmakes a difference is for all those clients and devotees who paid for his services orhis leading their ceremony. Furthermore, it is not only him, it is anyone who headvanced in rank or gave title to These fall into two groups, those who continue tosell services despite knowing that Ayo Salami's credentials are false, (these are alsoguilty of fraud), and those who have stopped selling services and are innocent.Neither of these two unfortunately will have recognized credentials without firstrepairing the damage Ayo Salami (and his minions) did to them. The facts seem to

be that Mr. Salami has neither sufficient rank or title to sell any services norpreform any ceremony, nor does he have the required training, nor the requiredpermissions, and this spells trouble for anyone who received services or ceremoniesfrom him.

Evidence: (within the last 30 days)

CONVERSATION WITH AYO SALAMI AND OBA OGBONI ABORIGINE

9:48amOba Ogboni Ade Olakisan

OGBO ATO

OGBO EDAN

I JUST GOT VISIT FROM THE BABALOLA FAMILY, AND THEIR FATHER BABAFATOOGUN WAS ALSO WHO DO MY DIVINATION FOR ME WHEN HE WAS ALIVE. SOTHEIR COMPLAINTS ARE :

YOU ARE USING THE NAME OF THEIR FATHER BABA FATOOGUN IN DOINGDUBIOUS DEALINGS IN THE DIASPORA BECAUSE HE WAS NEVER YOUR OLUWO,HE NEVER DID YOUR INITIATION OR TRAINED YOU.

9:56amAyo Salami

With all due respect I only ask you to make you r investigation properly. I havenever been to the Diaspora.

Ha


BUT YOU HAVE USED THEIR FATHER'S NAME TO CULTIVATE CLIENTS FORYOURSELF.

I CALLED YOU MANY TIMES TODAY ALREADY WHILE THEY WEERE HERE

10:02amAyo Salami

My lines are open and I will be in ilobu 2wks time, if u desire sir u may visit andclarify

Give me your number and I can call u

XXXXXXXXXXXX is my number

I have the client I have because of my books which baba contributed


THEY SAID ALL THE BOOKS YOU WRITTEN WERE STOLEN ODUS FROM OYO UNDERVARIOUS BABALAWOS THAT YOU PROMISED TO PAY , BUT YOU DID NOT PAYTHEM BACK.

2. COMPLAINT:

10:05amAyo Salami

Can u give me your no pls


THEY COMPLAINT THAT YOU STOLE THEIR FATHER'S CHIEFTANCY PEKE BEADS OFOTUN AWO OF ILOBU AND STAGE A FRAUDULANT INTERVIEW ON YOU TUBE WITHONE OMOAWO IFAKOLADE CHRIS WHOSE GODFATHER IS EFUWAPE OF ISARAREMO WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION


THEY BROUGHT THE PEKE BEADS TO ME TO SHOW ME AND AWONIYI TOOK ITFROM YOU AND ASKED YOU NEVER TO IMPERSONATE YOURSELF TO ANYONEAGAIN IN THE DIASPORA ABOUT BEING A CHIEF IN ILOBU OR BABALAWOBECAUSE NO ONE TRAINED YOU AND THEIR FATHER UNTIL HIS DEATH IN 2010NEVER TRAINED OR INITIATE YOU

10:16amAyo Salami

Niyi told u these?

Oh my God


I HAD SIX OF BAB FATOOGUN CHILDREN HERE WITH ME ALL DAY TODAY ASKINGFOR REPREMENT ON YOU. SO I CALLED YOU , AND NO ANSWER

10:17amAyo Salami

Pls give me your number


IT HAS BEEN A HECTIC DAY FOR ME AND A VERY SAD DAY THAT ONE OF MYBABALAWO'S CHILDREN HAD TO VISIT ME ALL DAY FOR THIS TYPE OFCOMPLAINTS.

I NEED YOU TO SEND ME A FULL BIOGRAPHY OF YOURSELF: WHO INITIATED YOUTO IFA OR ANY ORISA, WHO TRAINED YOU AND ORGAINED YOU TO BE ABABALAWO, THIS ARE THE INFORMATION I NEED FOR MY ORGANIZATION TOLOOK INTO AND TO COMPLETE OUR INVESTIGATION BEFORE I SANCTION THISCOMPLAINT.

OGBO ATO

OGBO EDAN

PLEASE REMEMBER TO SEND THIS TO ME TODAY SO AS NOT TO EMBARRASS YOUIN THE IFA/ ORISA COMMUNITY.


AND WHILE I AM DOING THIS INVESTIGATION, I AM ORDERING YOU TO STOPYOUR DEALINGS IN ANY IFA / ORISA WITH ANYONE IN THE DIASPORA UNTIL WEFINISH OUR INVESTIGATION.

10:33amAyo Salami

He will clarify everything for u sir

I will only say one word. Pls call Odugbona Awo of Ilobu who is also an Ogboniconfraternity leader. Awosoji Ifadairo . He was also my Odugbona during my Ifainitiation. His numbers is XXXXXXXXXX


I WAS ALSO AWARE OF THE ISSUE OF DIFFERENT AWO FROM CUBA AND FROM

LONDON THAT CAME TO YOU AND YOU TOOK THEIR MONEY AND DID WRONGINITIATIONS ON THEM, AND YOU PROMISED TO GIVE THEM BACK THEIR MONEY

AGAIN I AM ASKING YOU TO SEND ME YOUR CREDENTIAL TO BACK UP YOURDEFENCE , I DON'T NEED TO GO TO NO ONE BUT YOU.

THEY DID NOT BRING OJUGBONA COMPLAINTS HERE , THEY BROUGHT YOURCOMPLAINT.

AND ARE YOU SAYING OJUGBONA AWO OF ILOBU WAS YOUR OJUGBONA DURINGYOUR INITIATION WITH BABA FATOOGUN ? BECAUSE HIS CHILDREN ARE SAYINGOTHERWISE.

I NEED ALL YOUR INFORMATIONS NOT LATER THAN TONIGHT. WE ARE GOING TOSETTLE THIS MATTER BEFORE IT GETS OUT OF HAND.

OGBO ATO

10:50amAyo Salami

I am sorry sir. I may not be able to do this tonight. I am using my phone tobrowse. My computer connection is down but definitely I will send this tomorrowagbo ato


XXXXXXXXXX IS MY NUMBER.1) I AM ORDERING YOU TO GIVE GARRY KELLMAN BACK HIS MONEY AS YOU HAVEPROMISED HIM THROUGH THE PAYPAL ENTRY RIGHT AWAY.2 ) I AM ORDEERING YOU TO STOP MISREPRESENTING YOURSELF TO ANYONE INTHE DAISPORA AS A BABALAWO, AND STOP DOING BABALAWO'S WORK. BECAUSEYOU HAVE NO TRAININGS AS SUCH AND THIS IS WRONG .

Summation: Certainly the conversation is damning, yet as the Oba states thisinvestigation is ongoing and not complete. It could get worse it could get better, wewill see.The interested spectator should be watching not only Ayo Salami, but hisminions to see if they continue to offer services despite being clearly prohibited toas this investigation closes and judgement is forthcoming.

~~~~

Awo Falokun Fatunmbi (David Wilson) has one of the largest clientele indiaspora. His books include 1) Iwa-Pele: Ifa Quest: The Search for the Source ofSanteria and Lucumi (1991), 2) Ogun: Ifa and the Spirit of Iron (1992), 3) Awo: Ifa& the Theology of Orisha Divination (1992), 4) Oshun: Ifa and The Spirit of theRiver (1993), 5) Esu-Elegba: Ifa and the Divine Messenger (1993). 6) Oya: Ifa and

the Spirit of the Wind(1993), 7) Ochosi: Ifá and the Spirit of the Tracker (1993),8) Shango: Ifa and the Spirit of Lightning (1993), 9) Yemoja / Olokun: Ifa and theSpirit of the Ocean (1993), 10) Ibase Orisa: Ifa Proverbs, Folktales, Sacred History& Prayer (1994), 11) Inner Peace: The Ifa Concept of Ori (2005), 12) Family Spirit:The Ifa Concept of Egun (2006), 13)Mérìndínlógún: Òrìsà Divination Using 16Cowries: Revised and Extended Edition (2011), 14) Mérìndínlógún: Adivinación deÒrìsà Utilizando 16 Cowries: Edición Revisada y Extendida (Spanish Edition) (2011),15) Iwa-Pele: Ifa Quest: The Search for the Source of Santeria and Lucumi (2013).There may be others, but this is what Amazon has.

Mr. Wilson's situation is a bit murkier than Mr. Salami's largely because A) He hasa bigger support base of followers and B ) because a substantial amount of timepassed before his Yorubaland council and araba (Ode Remo) made a judgement.Personally for me neither is a significant factor. The reason is the size of the frauddoes not make it any less of a fraud, secondly in Yorubaland and particularly withinour religion, internet access and expertise is a recent improvement, communicationin all but the last few years there was weak at best, in fact it still falls woefullyshort of US and European standards. Like Ayo Salami, Mr. Wilson's situation is thathe was not only writing books over the last twenty years, but selling services,leading ceremonies and "making" priests and Awo...that apparently he had notraining for,nor permissions for. His supporters claim he did have permissions, yetaccording to the governing body of Ode Remo he did not. Therefore, as you will seefrom the evidence he was making rank and title through ceremony for a fee. OdeRemo to its credit has been very clear that not only does Mr. Wilson not havetraining nor permissions, but every individual he made is null and void. Once againif you are someone who received services, ceremony, rank and title and credentialsfrom Mr. Wilson, they are null and void, this is a massive fraud, whether maliciousor not in the cases of those who he made. I have several concerns about this wholefiasco starting with Mr. Wilson. He is obviously a man who after 15 plus booksknows quite a bit about our religion, thus how can he have innocently been dolingout ceremonies that he certainly knew he was not trained for (let alone havecurrent permissions for). Also, he frequently accuses anyone who discusses his"situation" of gossip and thumps on his Iwa Pele books. Iwa Pele loosely means"good character". I am not against anyone receiving money for services. providedthey are bona fide services that have a value and are as advertised. Yet here,according to Ode Remo the services, nor the provider (Mr. Wilson, and later thosehe made who made others) had little or no training and were lacking permissions.The result is much the same as buying a by mail diploma, it is not worth the paperit is written on. Yet unlike those who pay for and know their mail order diploma is ahoax, in the case of Mr. Wilson's clients, they assumed they were buying bona fidecredentials or services. In closing let me say that for me Mr. Wilson is a hugedisappointment, because he does have knowledge, his books are contributions, yetunfortunately it is his character or Iwa Pele that are in question. "Practice what youpreach"

The Evidence: (Dec.2011)

Ode Remo Babalawos THANK YOU FOR POSTING OUR PHOTO, IT WAS TAKING

DURING THE MEETING ON DAVID FALOKUN PROBLEM, AND LET IT BE KNOWNTHAT YOU MR SPENCER SENT US A PRIVATE EMAIL WITH ALL THE CONVERSATIONAND AFTER REVIEWING IT WITH BABA CHIEF LISA WE SENT YOU OUR COMMENT.December 19, 2011 at 5:11pm · LikeOde Remo Babalawos DAVID FALOKUN WILSON KNOWS THE TRUTH , HE KNOWSHIS TABOOS AND HE KNOWS WHAT HE REQUESTED FROM US, HE NEVERREQUESTED ANYTHING FROM THE ARABA'S CHILDREN ABOUT IFA / ORISATRAININGS, SO HE NEED TO STOP USING ARABA NAME AND HIS CHILDREN ORTALKING ABOUT ELA FOR NOTHING. HE ONLY ASKS FOR RESEARCH FOR HISBOOK YEARS BACK AND HE NEVER PAID US DURING THAT TIME FOR ANYTHING,IF HE CLAIMS HE DID, LET HIM POST ANY RECEIPT WRITTEN TO ARABA UP FOROUR MEETING REVIEW ON THURSDAY. HE NEVER LIVED IN OUR TOWN FOR 5 TO15YRS FOR ANY TRAINING. ARABA ADESANYA NEVER PROPOSED ANYCHIEFTAINCY TO HIM . CHIEFTAINCY DOES NOT MEAN IFA / ORISA TRAINING INODE REMO OR ANYWHERE IN YORUBALAND. SEVEN YEARS AGO HE SENT $100.00TO AWO SINA KUTI AND REQUESTED ALL THE 256 ODUS WRITTEN DOWN ANDTRANSLATED SENT TO HIM , IMAGINE $100.00 FOR GET ALL 256 ODUS SO THATHE CAN PRINT THEM OUT AND CLAIMED SUPERIORITY ON ANYONE FOR PRINTINGOUT ODU ? . SINCE THEN THE ELDERS HAVE NOT HEARD FROM HIM. HIM AND HISAWO FATEGBE CAN CLAIMED ANYTHING THEY WANT, THEY DON'T HAVE NO ASEFROM US THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANNA DO OR SAY, WE HAVE NOKNOWLEDGE ON ALL THE FAKES INITIATIONS THAT HE HAS BEEN DOINGINCLUDING FOR MR FOOLISH JAAP , HE CALLED US FOOLS ? HE IS THE FOOLISHWHITE MAN WHO IS CLAIMING EVERYTHING UNDERNEATH THE SUN, HOW CANYOU BE AN IFA DIVINER AND NOT IFA PRIEST ? MR JAAP YOU HAVE NOKNOWLEDGE OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND MAY ORUNMILA FORGIVE YOU.DAVID FALOKUN INITIATE YOU TO ORISA RIGHT ? O.K WHO TRAINED HIM ? ASKYOURSELVES OVER THERE YOU ALL ARE GOING AGAINST THE TABOOS OF IKAOFUN. AGAIN ON BEHALF OF THE ARABA AND ALL THE ODE REMO IFA ELDERS WEHAVE ISSUED OUT OUR CONCERN AND IT IS FINAL. IF ANYONE TOLD YOU THISPAPER IS FAKE OR "DOCTORED" OR THE ODE REMO IS DIVIDED , HAVE THEMCOME TO OUR MEETINGS AND GIVE US ANY REASON TO GO AGAINST OURTOWNSHIP TABOOS. WE ARE ASKING EVERYONE FROM ODE REMO LINEAGE NOTTO LISTEN TO THESE WHITE MEN CRY, IT IS NOTHING BUT CRY FOR HELP TOPLAY SUPERIORITY OVER ANYONE , THEY HAVE NO AUTHORITY ON ANYTHINGGOING ON IN ODE REMO BUT SIMPLE TO WRITE BOOKS FOR MONEY, IFA IS FORANYONE TO WRITE ABOUT, BUT YOU MUST GET TRAINED FIRST TO INITIATE ANDDIVINATE. DAVID FALOKUN WILSON KNOWS THE TRUTH HE NEEDS TO STOPDECEIVING EVERYONE WITH FAKE INITIATIONS AND TALKING ABOUT AWO GOINGINTO POSSESSION WITH ELA , NO ONE GOING THROUGH AWO INITIATION GOESINTO ELA POSSESSION , AWO DON'T GO INTO POSSESSION PERIOD ! . HESHOULD STOP USING ARABA CHILDREN AND ELA FOR HIS DEFENCE. OGBOLATO.December 19, 2011 at 5:14pm · LikeOde Remo Babalawos PLEASE DO NOT TURN OUR MANDATE INTO DISRESPECTINGANYONE IN THE AMERICAS , ON BEHALF OF ALL THE ELDERS OF ODEREMO OURDECISION IS NOT TO BELITTLE ANYONE AS YOU HAVE CLAIMED MR CHARLESSPENCER BUT MAINLY TO EXPOSE THE PLAIN TRUTH ABOUT ALL THESE FAKESINITIATIONS PRACTICED BY DAVID FALOKUN WILSON , AND THIS WILL BE OUR

LAST COMMENT ON THIS ISSUE, IF ANYONE HAS ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY , BUYYOUR TICKET AND COME AND SIT WITH THE ELDERS FOR OUR MEETINGS.OGBOLATO.December 19, 2011 at 5:26pm · LikeCharles Spencer King Humm, I do not think I have belittled Ode Remo. In fact, Ihave stated over and over my respect for them. I have also stated I do not agreewith their position on women in IFA and that is my prerogative, as I'm not a part ofOde Remo nor YTR in greater Yorubaland. I am a Baba Awo from a Lucumi rama inHavana and do not fall under the jurisdiction of their respected Araba, nor anycouncil of theirs, yet I certainly do respect their authority and tradition inside ofgreater Yorubaland.

Neither have I belittled Awo Falokun. I have yet to voice an opinion, and havetaken great pains to stay neutral....until when and IF this issue gets resolved.

The original post was not about Ode Remo vs Awo Falokun it was about thedifferences of regulatory practices in greater Yorubaland vs diaspora. I DID use theOde Remo vs Awo Falokun situation as a current example.....yet made no opinionon guilt or innocence. Because this post has morphed into a discussion on thecontroversy of Ode Remo vs Awo Falokun. I have allowed the parties and theirsupporters to use this forum so that others may learn from it. My personal opinionis that this controversy IS a big deal, and it has far reaching implications, therefore,it is important to all of YTR, and thus a pertinent post to everyone. I am sorry ifOde Remo (or Awo Falokun) feels I have belittled them, that was and is not myintention.3 minutes ago · Edited · Like · 1Charles Spencer King First let me AGAIN say that I am not a judge, nor a jury noran executioner. Additionally, I do not have all the facts (nor do I know anyone whohas all the facts) I have been following this situation as best I can, because unlikesome who seek to minimize the implications of this situation, it has the potential formassive repercussions throughout all of West Africa Religion. As far as I can tellAwo Falokun practices a form of greater Yorubaland traditional religion, not Lucumias I do. Even though Awo Falokun lives in the US, he seemingly practices none ofthe diaspora forms of YTR, but the Yorubaland form. Many of his books, confirmthat this is one of the zones of Yorubaland, known as Ode Remo. Unlike Lucumi,Ode Remo and other zones of greater Yorubaland have a very established historyand hierarchy, beginning with an Araba and various levels of Awo.

What now seems fairly evident is that Ode Remo has challenged not only AwoFalokun's credentials but has made it very clear he was not trained sufficiently toacquire any significant rank while under Ode Remo's tutelage. Furthermore, OdeRemo has stated that anyone who received rank under a ceremony where AwoFalokun either was part of or led has null and void credentials. This of course, ismuch more far reaching and suggests dire consequences for many more than justAwo Falokun.

We have not heard Awo Falokun directly address these charges, however we haveheard from several of his inner circle who began by making outright denials that the

declaration by Ode Remo was real. "Its a fake" was their first claim. Later, thedenial was changed to suggest that this is a rogue branch of Ode Remo producingthis declaration with out the permission or knowledge of the ruling Araba, However,it was later learned the Araba has added his thumbprint to the declaration. AwoFalokun has not addressed the charges directly (that I could find), but he has beenconsistently claiming there are those who are attacking him wrongfully and thelatest is a long dissertation on gossip.

Now based on his dissertation, I suppose I would be one of those who he isaccusing of "gossip". Therefore, I think I have a right to respond, so let's talk a bitabout "gossip" shall we? It is suggested by Awo Falokun that "gossiping" is one ofthe 16 Laws for an Awo's deportment. First of all I do not believe that, because theword "Gossip" was not even a word when these rules were made. Thus it is AwoFalokun's translation that manufactures the translation to "gossip" :

gossipO.E. godsibb "godparent," from God + sibb "relative" (see sibling).Extended in M.E.to "anyfamiliar acquaintance" (mid-14c.),especially to woman friends invited to attend abirth, laterto"anyone engaging in familiar or idle talk" (1560s). Sense extended1811 to"triflingtalk, groundless rumor." The verb meaning "to talk idly about the affairs of others"is from 1620s.

Therefore, anyone claiming this term is part of one of the 16 Laws of priest andpriestesses of Orunmila is woefully mistaken as the word did not exist then.Furthermore, translating any ese or Yoruba phrase to English is not an exactscience. In fact, the usual translation of the law is this " They (the Babalawos)warned, do not call esuru ( a type of yam) esuru (Which means do not say whatyou do not know)". To insert the word "gossip" seems to me to be a stretch. Whatone or a group of people may find a solid translation, others may disagree.Personally, I take exception with those "claiming" gossip as it relates to Ode Removs Awo Falokun. First of all, it is not gossip, because it affects more than AwoFalokun, it affects those he initiated and and those he advanced in rank andpreformed or was part of a ceremony for. This is a BIG deal, not something thatcan nor should be ignored, nor swept under the carpet, it potentially affects a wholelot of people, and because of this it is not "gossip" it is news.

Frankly, I'm disappointed that Awo Falokun would seemingly seek to minimize thegravity of the situation he is embroiled in, again not because it involves him, butbecause it potentially involves those who not only paid for his services, but honorand love him as a mentor, and in some cases as a god parent. Form my seats inthe gallery, I would hope he would feel an obligation to at the very least address hesituation directly and in a forthright manner. I have read also that he feels this isold news, and this is his "enemies" rehashing things he has already been asked andanswered. Well, this declaration is not old, it is fresh, and it is from a venerablebranch that he claims ties to and their Araba, so nope I don't buy the asked and

answered response. The is another of the Laws of IFA that comes to mind, it is:

"They warned them that odide (the parakeet) should not be called oode(murcielago). (Which means, never mislead the people. Do not send a person on afalse road)."

Yet another is: "They warned them not to say that the leaves of the Ceiba areleaves of the Oriro tree. (Which means never deceive the people)".

Let me also say that Awo Falokun is a darn good writer and has much knowledge toshare, whether his credentials are in order or not. Anyone who has taken the timeto read my thread on "Open Letter re Regulatory Procedures in Lucumi & ATR"knows I have painstakingly not judged Awo Falokun or Ode Remo, yet I am "guilty"of mentioning the Ode Remo vs Awo Falokun situation in the aforementionedarticle. In fact, when it became clear the article had morphed into this situation, Istopped posting on group sites and directed my readers to visit my FB page wherethe conversation continued in my note section under the aforementioned title.Those using any logic reading this must understand that while I seek the truth,should Awo Falokun's credentials be less than in order it would be a HUGE negativefor me personally. As a writer, as another white, non Latino Awo, as one withfriends who are Awo Falokun's students and godchildren. It would be negative, forall of YTR, not just those from an ile in Nigeria, Benin or greater Yorubaland. Thereis absolutely no benefit for me, I have no agenda.

I do not know Awo Falokun personally. We have had a few disagreements in onegroup, due to his innuendos and what I saw as outright disrespect for otherbranches of YTR in diaspora. I certainly respect his knowledge despite this, and thatalone is certainly not of sufficient cause for me to do a hatchet job on him. The factis until this response here (that you're reading), I have been rooting for AwoFalokun. However, absolutely I respect Ode Remo and their right to rule their Ile'sas they see fit, it is not my place to judge, and still I make no judgement as to thissituation. I do take exception to Awo Falokun's innuendos that writing or commenton this relevant, newsworthy situation is "gossip". Clearly it is not, and to try to laysome guilt trip on those speaking to it is a weak deflection of what he should bespeaking to and that is the this ugly situation. It is not going away.

Furthermore, I am well aware that Awo Falokun was aware of my comments andthis thread on my FB page, not only was he notified of it, he had and has theopportunity to respond to it...so that certainly is not "gossip" either ! I just checkedAwo Falokun's wall, and his supporters are still claiming the letter is a fake, I thinkthat is wishful thinking from what I have seen and read. Ode Remo's Facebookpage is full of details on this controversy. The Princess of Benin has spoken veryclearly on this as well as have other luminaries. To insinuate that anyone whospeaks to this is "gossiping" is not only inaccurate, but wrong.3 minutes ago · Edited · LikeOde Remo Babalawos Adupe O Thank you Awo Ogbesa the isese which is thetradition of our ancestors will guide and protect you. All the 24 Elders in attendanceof the meeting held on November 20, 2011 from our Araba Adesanya Awoyade and

Chief Lisa Ifayemi Awobola are thanking you very much Ifa says let us speak upand speak the truth, for whoever speak the truth is who Irunmole will protect. Firstof all , without our help in Ode Remo especially Oloye Ibikefa Aro Sina Kuti and AwoIfalola Awoyade David Ifalokun Wilson will not have his name on the map of Ifa /Orisa as a writer , he took advantage of everyone in Ode remo and lied that hisbooks rights were stolen and he made no money from the sales , so therefore wehave no interest in any of his money, we never had for 20+ yrs, Again we have noidea about any initiations he was making on people, he was doing that for moneyand fame , still we have no interest in it , but when we saw the pictures onfacebook and thing he wrote against the people of Ode Remo as a whole, then wefelt like we had to do something , and we don't need his permission to take anydecision in telling the TRUTH about his conduct. So if anyone is deceiving anyone itis David Falokun Wilson. He is the one that is breaking every taboos and warningsin Odu Ika Ofun, he has no idea what this Odu is saying , this is one of his tricksagain to deceive people. He can start his own school in Ifa /Orisa without our nameon it , but using the lineage of Ode Remo to do fake initiations and deceive peopleabout his position in Ode Remo is against the taboos of Ode Remo. Thank you verymuch . Ogbolato.December 22, 2011 at 4:03pm · LikeCharles Spencer King Before I was unceremoniously removed from The Movementof The Odu group today, I did have the opportunity to read Awo Falokun's latestpost on "cyber bullying", and I'll address that in a moment. The month after I wasasked to join the Movement of the Odu group ( the acronym is MOO like the cowsound) I posted my first thread. I waited a month because I wanted to evaluate thegroup and flow of conversation. I posted and was not welcomed by theadministrator, but admonished, because she did not agree with my assessment, infact, she erased two of her comments. She later apologized, but needless to say, itwas a rocky start. I contributed when I could over the (roughly) one year I wasthere. The group has quite a few luminaries, yet Awo Falokun and his supportersseem to make up the greatest number of active contributors.I don't rememberseeing any of the luminaries on the small membership list ever post other than AwoFalokun. The Iya is from Atlanta, and having lived on Blackland road, I like Atlanta.Yet Atlanta, in YTR is where there is a lot of disputed personage in our religions, aKing, an Araba, and a whole group of people whose credentials are not universallyaccepted, so I'm always cautious about Atlanta, as I don't have all the answers, butI know there is controversy.

MOO has most of the writers, like Chief Fama, Dr. Abimbola, etc, yet again, theydon't seem to post there. The group has a large repository of ese, odu messages,largely copy and pasted from various publications, however for me, I don't divineusing others messages, ese or stories. I've always felt that the skill of the diviner isnot how many messages, ese, pataki, and ebbo they know, but how well theymatch each of these to the question or situation. Personally, I need to confirm all ofthese, before I would ever even consider using them. So, the content is really notmy way of doing things.Over the last few months, I'd noticed that MOO had mostlybecome a rah rah group for the Iya, Awo Falokun, and his followers, and that wasOK, as both the Iya and Awo Falokun, had a lot to say or share as it may be. TheIya told me in a note " People don't understand. I am surrounded by great and old

babalawos from both systems. Some are in the room reading and watching. If theydisagree...they always in-box or call me. I am their Ika meji baby." I thought thatstatement a bit odd, as some "old babalawos" seemed to be involved in the group,but not whispering in my ear. I also learned over time that one of the major themesof the group is to promote one religion or a merger of ATR with the branches of YTRand I'm on record as being vehemently against that concept. I see it as a powerand money grab, but you can read about my opinion in others of my notes.Onoccasion I would find myself scratching my head when Awo Falokun would minimizethe contributions of YTR in diaspora or make sweeping statements about ATR.Occasionally, I would gently make my point that both YTR an ATR have madesignificant contributions, neither is better or worse, just different. Yet I would berebuffed, and rebuffed, and rebuffed. About a month ago Awo Falokun made astatement so incredible that it led to a heated debate, where again, I was the lonevoice for Lucumi. His statement was that EVERY Awo in NIGERIA (not justYorubaland) knew HUNDREDS (that is more than 199) of ese (verses) for EACHodu. When I asked for a clarification, he stood by the statement. I told him thestatement was hyperbole, and then, I was suddenly told I was disrespecting him. Iwas called names, I can't repeat by the Iya and his supporters. That was my lastpost, over a month ago. Now don't think that despite all this I do not respect AwoFalokun's writings or seniority, of course I do. But that does not mean I can'tdisagree with him politely, as I did. He is not the Oracle of Delphi, he is one Awo,and he should be big enough to say he mis wrote or made a mistake,because inthis case his statement was ludicrous. In retrospect, I can't remember Awo Falokunever saying he was wrong about anything, I'm wrong on occasion, and I fess up, Iaccept criticism, I enjoy a repartee, I know I can be arrogant at times. I sure don'thave any malice whatsoever toward Awo Falokun, but I no longer hold him in thesame high esteem, I once did.

The reason for this is several-fold, but first let me say AGAIN (for the umpteenthtime) I am neutral with regards to the Ode Remo vs Awo Falokun situation. Irespect both Awo Falokun's presumption of innocence or claims as well as OdeRemo's long history and tradition and right to discipline those affiliated with them,as well as protect their integrity. I simply do not have all the facts, and therefore, Iwill wait until I do,to make any statement other than neutrality on the subject.However, as I have said, I am disappointed in how Awo Falokun has handled thissituation. If the allegations have merit, the ramifications are far reaching and effectanyone who's ceremony included Awo Falokun either as an active participant or asthe leader for over 20 years. Rank could be null and void for example, People paidfor services, so there are many potential damages that affect many people. This iswhy discussing a matter of this magnitude is news, not gossip. Awo Falokun and orhis supporters suggested the Ode Remo declaration is a fake, then it was real but arogue element of Ode Remo wrote it, Now its back to fake. All the while AwoFalokun has not addressed the substance of the declaration challenging hiscredentials and his published affiliations with Ode Remo, so I'm disappointed he hasnot. Awo Falokun has made many comments referring to his "enemies" attackinghim and his credibility, yet does not name who these enemies are, so I'mdisappointed with that. Awo Falokun says these are old charges that have beenanswered before, well the Ode Remo declaration is not an old charge, so I'm

disappointed with that. Numerous luminaries have come out supporting Ode Remo'sdeclaration,so I'm disappointed there is no direct rebuttal from Awo Falokun, I'mdisappointed that his supporters seem to be the ones denying, what I've not heardhim address. A few days ago Awo Falokun wrote a long dissertation on "gossip" andhow it relates to the 16 Laws of IFA, I did not agree with his opinion on gossip so Ipublished a rebuttal, For me it is disappointing that he has chosen to accuseunnamed "enemies" of gossip and ANYONE speaking to this newsworthy issue,rather than address the Ode Remo challenge to his credentials. While I continue toremain neutral on the core issue of Ode Remo vs Awo Falokun, how he's handledthese side issues is what affected my opinion.. continued.......2 minutes ago · Edited · LikeCharles Spencer King Before I was unceremoniously drummed out of MOO today, Iread Awo Falokun's latest warnings,most of which is thinly veiled in thehypothetical.The subject is not addressing the core issue of the challenge to hiscredentials by Ode Remo, but cyber bullying, and as such I was disappointed. Cyberbullying is an interesting topic, as are the libel laws regarding defamation ofcharacter. If indeed Awo Falokun can prove that the declaration from Ode Remo isfradulant, he certainly could and should go after whomever created the declarationcriminally as well as civilly.I'm all for enforcement of laws. Of course, the laws aredifferent in Nigeria vs the USA, therefore prosecuting could be a challenge. Also thelaw's and remedies in the US regarding defamation of character and libel are lesschallenging with a private citizen. They become more difficult to prosecute based onvenue, and the determination (done case to case) on whether the plaintiff(s) anddefendant(s) are public figures. There is a general type of public figure which AwoFalokun may or may not be determined as as well as a "limited public figure". TheLimited Public Figure determination puts the individual(s) completely in the publicfigure determination.where in addition to the burden of proof, presumptiveinnocence the plaintiff(s) have to prove malice and intent. Awo Falokun wouldalmost certainly be determined as (at the least) a Limited Public Figure. In thecourse of my reading Awo Falokun's warnings, I did not see this important facet ofthe law mentioned by Awo Falokun.Therefore, I thought it might be relevant tothose who do not have a firm grasp of the laws and may even feel "bullied" into notentering a discussion or who may have a difference of opinion on the wide range oftopics Awo Falokun frequently has commentary on almost each day in the publicarena we know as Facebook. We all have the right to disagree based on our FirstAmendment rights. As always, one should disagree with the topic or substancerather than make accusations that can't be supported.

My final thought is this: Libel and defamation of character (and cyber bullying forthat matter) COULD play a role in the Ode Remo vs Awo Falokun situation.Certainly either party could pursue a remedy, as could any aggrieved party.Therefore, the door swings both ways. ...2 minutes ago · Edited · Like · 1Ode Remo Babalawos Thank you, we have sent him a copy, he said he has not yetbeen contacted , and I his Ojubona when he did his tefa has sent him a copyyesterday and if he says Awo Lola told him something different , he needs toproduce a copy of Lola's letter to the public so that i can take it to the nextmeeting.He also has my number now , he can call me , i helped him a lot for his

books and he has only sent $100.00 for everything i have done for him. Our Arabais very old now , so if his children speak for Araba , David needs to expose them tous so that we can take every action on the matter, Our next Elder in charge of thisissue is Oloye Lisa of Ode Remo Ifayemi Awolola, and based on everyone of usdecision , this letter was written to him and everyone initiated in Ode Remo . Davidhas been trying to divide Ode Remo for a long time due to his wrongful businesstactics using Awo Lola name for backup , but he will never succeed . Ogbolato ,Oloye Awo Sina KutiDecember 25, 2011 at 11:01am · Unlike · 1Charles Spencer King Original Cyber Bully post by Awo Falokun :Cyber BulliesIt is a sad and pathetic day when I feel the necessity to discuss the issue of cyberbulling. There are forty million orphans in Africa and our Ifa Orisa community is socompletely clueless that more time is spent denigrating each other than is spentraising money for the for children who need our help.Along my journey towards Ifa I graduated from law school in 1968. I worked as aprivate investigator for Hal Lipset. He was hired by Hilary Clinton to investigate theWatergate Burglary that led to the resignation of Richard Nixon. I know how togather evidence. I have experience playing with the big boys. I want to share someof the wisdom of that experience with the good people of Movement of Odu.Be clear cyber bullying is a crime.For those cyber bullies who seem to have a straight line learning curve when I saycyber bulling is a crime I mean the consequence of your actions leads to spendingtime in jail.I hope that is clear.So I will honor the taboo against gossip by discussing these issues in generic terms.That means I am not referring to any specific incident. It means I am givinghypothetical examples as a way of teaching an idea.Let’s say for example someone prints a document that is critical of the way youhandle your professional life. Let’s say for example the document turns out to be aforgery. Let’s say for example someone tells you that they have decided to not useyour professional services as a result of reading the forged document. The UnitedStates legal system has two branches one is called civil and the other is calledcriminal. The civil branch is rooted in solving contract and business relateddisputes. Denigrating a person in their professional life in the language of the law iscalled a tort. If the denigration comes verbally the tort is called slander. If thedenigration comes in print the tort is called libel. The remedy for a tort offense is tosue the offender for damages. The concept of damages is that you calculate theamount of work lost as a result of the slander and libel, you multiply that numberby three and then you ask for punitive damages based on the jury’s assessment ofthe intentions of the person committing the slander or libel.Like · · Follow Post · Yesterday at 8:45am4 people like this.

Awo Falokun Let’s say you lost $10,000 worth of initiations as a result of theslander and libel, the damages would be $30,000 plus a ballpark figure of $50,000for punitive damages. We are not without options to fight back.As a word of encouragement to those who have suffered from slander and libel,

lawyers will take these cases for a percentage of the settlement which means youdo not have to give them any money. You do not have to give them any moneyeven if you lose the case. There is no down side to suing a bully. Based on newlaws if some bullies you on line the server is required by law to give you their nameand address. The is the first step in any law suit.So as a moral strategy we know that awo do not respond to gossip. As a legalstrategy I know that the best way to gather evidence is to let the libel and theslander go unchallenged. In the words of my former mother in law that is calledgiven your enemies enough rope . . .When the libel is based on a forged document the punitive damages accessedagainst the person who commits the libel are huge. So let’s say you see adocument that is reportedly from your elders and let’s say you call your elders andthey have no idea what you are talking about. In legal language that is called aprima fascia case for forgery. When libel is committed in a forged document theforgery becomes a criminal matter. Each time you republish the forged documentyou are committing an additional count of forgery and you are making yourselfeligible for additional years in prison.Hello.To the issue of cyber bullying, the Congress of the Unites States has made it acrime to bully someone on the internet to the point where they commit suicide. Thishas happened in the Ifa community in the United States. When it came to myattention I was seriously considering becoming a Buddhist. The bullying in ourcommunity looks like this. A new Iyawo full of pride and joy posts pictures of theirinitiation on face book. The good and blessed Iyawo is then slammed from everydirection by people saying their initiation was not valid. Hear me clearly; there is nobasis for this kind of trash talk in our faith. That means telling an Iyawo thereinitiation is invalid qualifies as cyber bullying. If that cyber bullying causes mentalstress or worse you are guilty of the crime of cyber bullying, shame on you. Nowpay attention this is the important part of this scenario. If the cyber bully says theywill re do the initiation at a price the criminal courts call this extortion. The crime ofextortion carries a ten year prison sentence in Federal Prison with guys namedsnake and bubba.Yesterday at 8:45am · Like · 4

Awo Falokun For those of us who stand behind the moral principal of no gossip, andfor those of us who still have some faith in the law, and for those of us whounderstand the concept of empathy, compassion and unconditional love towardseveryone, when you see cyber bullying on Facebook reach out to the victim. Tellthe victim to ignore the illegal behavior and offer them your phone number so theywill not feel alone. Explain to them their legal options. Look up the number the locallegal aid society and gather your evidence. It does not matter their lineage, howthey do things, who did the initiation. I am saying that cyber bullying is evil and Iam saying it is illegal. I am also telling people who care about our faith that theresponse I am getting from people about this issues tells me people of good will areleaving our faith in huge numbers. Cyber bullying is threatening to make Ifa inAmerica a joke. If the wisdom of the ancestors ever inspired you, if the wisdom ofthe ancestors ever gave you clarity, if the wisdom of the ancestors ever brought joyto your heart do not let the cyber bullies destroy our faith. Stand up, reach out,

gather your courage and do the right thing. Not to help me, not even to helpyourself, but stand up and gather your courage so we can leave something of valueto our children.IrebabaDecember 25, 2011 at 1:46pm · LikeOde Remo Babalawos David Falokun Wilson is the main one that keeps thegossiping on facebook and anywhere he can post his cry out for support . He is avery dangerous man doing fake initiations to Iyaami / Ifa and every Orisa the heread about it the books , don't let him use the legal system in America to bullyanyone into submission to him, when nothing works for him he resulted to the court, he needs to come to yorubaland and take all 24 of us Elders to court forchallenging him on Fraud , and show us which babalawo in Ode Remo did he locallyserve for 20+ . He is a liar . He preaches against himself . Ai tete mu ole , ole nmuoloko. Ogbolato .December 27, 2011 at 8:37am · LikeCharles Spencer King Here is a note to Ode Remo from me and their response:Charles Spencer KingOgbo ato Baba, indeed despite having the fourth odu, I have continued my training.Thanks you for the number and support, however, the fact is that the ramificationsare severe for those who Falokun initiated. Yet it is really between Ode Remo andFalokun and them and is outside my authority in Lucumi....But I will continue towrite a rebuttal when Falokun makes outrageous claims or statements ordisrespects other's and other traditions.My question was since I have my fourth odu and he does not ( seemingly) is he myelder or my junior? Thanks, and ire o Awo Ogbesa

5 hours agoOde Remo BabalawosHe is no one Elder , he is still omoawo, he has never indicate to learn to us OR fromus, he has always maintain a position of a reseacher . The people that he initiatedshould collect their money back from him and contact us to redo their initiation ifthey still want to belong to Ode Remo lineage, if not they are free to go anywherethey please. I was his ojubona when he tefa , he posted the picture of me andAraba with Awo Ifalola up , but he wrote on the photo that i made iyanifa initiationfor a woman which is also a lie , the issue of initiation women in Ode Remo cameup many times with the Elders , i was on you tube also advocating for women totefa, but the last King had a meeting with all of us Elders and through a divinationin the meeting Ifa spoke again that we should keep our taboo of no tefa for women,this is why we all came to unification of listening to what Ifa says. I am his directELDER as his Ojubona after Araba , and Araba is older now , so am in charge of thiscase not Araba son (Awo Falola ) , he knows the truth , but like to play games withLola's name. This is not coming from us, this is our Taboo from Ifa period . He canmake every campaign he wanted to against us , he has no more ase from us to doanything, and if he keeps this on , we may have to put more restrictions on him inremoving any Ifa ase that he may have from his head. We are watching him veryclosely and also waiting for his lawyer to get in touch with us in Ode Remo. He issending all his followers to harrass Yeye Olomitutu on line , but he will not succeed, this man is dangerous to all Ifa /Orisa communities. He is operating under a false

license as a babalawo / Awo , it is like claiming to be a doctor without anyeducation. He has been a very big disgrace to himself just to make money. Do notbelieve any stories he gives you over their . David Falokun Wilson is a FRAUD.OgbolatoBaba Sina KutiDecember 31, 2011 at 12:23pm · Like

Summation: Indeed this is over a year old now, the judgement is clear (in myopinion) . Mr. Wilson and his minions (those he made and so on) are continuing topromote their services and sell ceremonies that according to Ode Remo (where Mr.Wilson's ase and permissions are from) are null and void. For me and otherobservers, it is sad to see these people selling credentials that are false. Sadder stillthat a mind like Mr. Wilson is not practicing what he preaches.~~~~~~Philip Neimark is the founder of IFA college.He is the best businessman of thebunch, he is perhaps the largest entity in our religion and the biggest fraud of thethree as you'll learn from the discussion. His books include 1) The Way of Orisa:Empowering Your Life Through the Ancient African Religion of Ifa (1993), 2) TheOrisha Today: No More Fear! (2012), 3) Ifa Then and Now!: Orisha in a ModernWorld (2012).

Lets then segue to a book Mr. Neimark reputedly co authored titled The Sacred IFAOracle (1995) this is a fairly famous book in Yorubaland and in diaspora. However,what is questionable is how involved Mr. Neimark was in producing the content ofthis book. The fact is that there is a very short preface of three and a half pagesand a introduction of about four pages worth of mechanics. The rest of the 540page book is by most sources regarded as a compilation of Afolabi A, Epega's father(noted Yorubaland Baba Awo and author Patriarch D. Olarimiwa Epega) and AwoEpega's grandfather, famous Baba Awo, and author Rev. D. Onadele Epega whowas a founder of the Imole Oluwa Institute in Yorubaland. There seems to be littledoubt Mr. Neimark helped get Harper's to publish it, nor that Mr. Neimark mayhave helped write at least some of the 7.5 pages of introduction and preface,however I have yet to meet, read or hear of a serious IFA scholar who believes Mr.Neimark made any significant or even noteworthy contribution to the guts or meatof this book other than the 7.5 pages. First of all at the time Mr. Neimark wasclaiming to be a Cuban Lucumi priest, not a product of Yorubaland, Secondly, theodu in the book are not offered as a Lucumi IFA priest or ocha expert would presentthem.

Next we'll look at Mr. Neimark's Lucumi credentials. Because I am a LucumiBaba Awo, I can speak to this very clearly. Many people have asked for Mr.Neimark's formal credentials and have been ignored, rebuffed or put off.Credentials are something that provided they are in order, a priest should be proudof, if they are not proud of them or unwilling to produce them upon reasonablerequest, "where there is smoke, there is fire." "Houston we have a problem", "Run,Forrest Run", " Two chances of being real, Slim and None ( and Slim just left town).Therefore in Lucumi, when anyone fails to produce their credentials it is a HUGE redflag. Finally for this Lucumi credentials paragraph, there seems to be no one who

made Mr. Neimark (mano de Orula), no one who crowned Mr. Neimark in ocha, andno one who either led his itefa ceremony to become an Awo or who was one of thesixteen Awo who should have witnessed and partook in the six or seven dayceremony. Nor it seems is there anyone who claims to have trained Mr. Neimarkand to what extent in either Lucumi ocha or IFA. Nor does there seem to be anyonewilling to claim him and account for any permissions (or lack of them in his case).This all seems quite a facade for anyone who is an elder of Lucumi, or a seriousstudent of Lucumi. One reason is that in order to have an ile (or college) a BabaAwo needs to have completed the highest ceremony in Lucumi called The Mysteriesof Olofin, and 15 years ago there was not a whole lot of Baba Awo who hadreceived this. Baba Awo from that time are known commodities, who did notoperate in the shadows.

One story is that Mr. Neimark received his training (and his Olofin) from AwoEpega who he <ahem> co authored the afore discussed book with, who had movedto NYC. In fact one (of the many) disgruntled clients of Mr. Neimark, told me AwoEpega's olofin is proudly displayed at IFA College.This for serious students ofLucumi IFA and elder Baba Awo in itself presents a problem. The problem is thatthis particular olofin is Awo Epega's father (or grandfather's) depending who istelling the story. In Lucumi indeed it is permitted to pass a pot to a blood relative,but certainly not an outsider ! Another former client told me that Mr. Neimark wasthe executor of Awo Epega's estate after he died, and that is certainly permissible,yet liberating an Olofin family pot is not. Furthermore, having possession of theOlofin pot does not come with permissions to use it, and absolutely not to dole outits ashe for profit. Finally, having a Yorubaland olofin pot does not transfer tohaving a Lucumi olofin pot, as there are different ashe, training, beliefs, andpermissions from the two different traditions of IFA.

Continuing on to the College, its born and Mr. Neimark starts promotingthings like bloodless sacrifices, combo orishas like Esu Oggun, making initiates thatare taboo in many traditions with no apparent permissions, oversight, or source ofashe, and ceremonies and IFA divination over the phone and on Skype ! Now atsome point, Mr. Neimark started offering not just Lucumi ceremonies, rank, title,ashe, consultations and ebo, but lo and behold he started offering Yorubalandcredentials. No Araba claims him, nor his bastardized beliefs and practices. No oneseems to have done Yorubaland training nor itefa with him, and naturally he isunwilling to provide any details. He somehow continues to suck in the rich and if hedoes not offer a product, it seems to materialize, provided the price is right. He is asalesmen and an astute businessman despite being unethical and immoral. LikeEnron's accountants he operates in the shadows of the law even having a 501c (notfor profit....LMAO) corporation.Why is he not sitting in a jail where he belongs? Theanswer is simple, who could explain our religion to an outsider (or IRS or grandjury) well enough to understand the depth of his fraud(s).

Summation: We all feel sorry for the victims of these three, but much of the blamemust go to the buyers. These clients bought without research, or due diligence,they did not do their homework before they bought, and they were scammed. Its ashame, its not something that is unique just to our religion, all religions have

problems of this nature. In the end they will be punished, all are old men, soon Esuwill take them to be judged by Olorun, their ori will suffer, this I believe.LikeLike · · Share

Petrus De Columna, Anne Laure Allen, Sudha Menon and 23 others like this. 22 shares

Iris Waterwitch WOW! The things us small-fry can learn!June 9, 2013 at 12:30pm · Unlike · 1

Charles Spencer King Yeah its long......but fairly complete...:-))June 9, 2013 at 12:45pm · Like · 2

Lekan Babalola Well done Charles Spencer King.. I do Know that everyday is forthe thief and one day is for the owner. I have heard the same story about Mr. AyoSalam's from the printer of the Ifa: A Complete Divination (2009). I bought 6copies of this book in 2009. I did a field research on 256 Odu of Ifa with minimum10-16 verses on each Odu in 2000. We recorded over 30-40 Babalawos in Oko, Ile-Ife, Oyo and Ibadan. Otunba Kehinde Idowu-Fagbohun was part of the researchscholar who worked with me on the project. ~We are yet to transcribe the material.I heard through the grape vine that Mr. Ayo Salami brought a book out. The aim ofour project www.ifayorubacontemporaryart.co.uk

is to have an IFA book that will come out as a celebration of the work of Babalawosfrom Yorubaland Nigeria where I am originated from. It is sad to hear that peopleare doing this as a personal gain. I am very sad and upset. May Ifa continue toguide us all.June 9, 2013 at 1:07pm · Unlike · 7

Akintunde Ifatunde Fraud! Fraud!! Fraud!!! When are we going to stop all thesefraud?June 9, 2013 at 1:16pm · Unlike · 2

Lekan Babalola On Awo Falokun Fatunmbi (David Wilson). Myself and a fellowNigerian Adekoye Williams edited his book Ibase Orisa: Ifa Proverbs, Folktales,Sacred History & Prayer (1994). He introduced me to his Godchildren in HollandBabalorisa Jaap Verduijn ( Priest of Oososi) and Iyalorisa Helen (Priestess of Osun)Osun to me. I found Babalorisa Jaap Verduijn to be a nice man from my dealingswith him. I was teaching him and Helen Yoruba language for a while before we

parted our ways. But from what I get to know about Awo Falokun Fatunmbi (DavidWilson) he has be dishonest to the people of Ode Remo and Baba Araba AdesinaAwoyade. Awo FaIokun was introduced to Baba Araba Adesina by a Black AmericanBabalawo Reynold, who passed away many years back ( May his soul rest inOrunmila). I travelled to see Baba Adesina in Ode Remo in 1995, few kilometers tomy mother's town Iperu Remo. I had a lengthy discussion with about how some ofthe Diaspora Onifas/Olorisas abusing our hospitality ( Same way as they did duringthe transatlantic slaver trade). Falokun will not be the first one and will not be thelast. The problem is that some of my fellow Onifas and Olorisas are greedy andready to sell their heritage for a bowl of porridge. The problem lies with us in Africato be proud of what we have and not to repeat the same mistake we did during theslave trade by selling own people to danger. I blame us in Yorubaland for lackingself pride and easy to be persuaded with $£€ signs. Thank you Charles SpencerKing for bring this out to into open.. This is going to open can of worms. Ogbo AtoAsure Efun.June 9, 2013 at 2:01pm · Unlike · 6

Iyanifa Ogunda Alase Ogunsina Adupe to you, Charles Spencer King forshedding light to the dark as it pertains to Ifa'Orisa. I feel so sorry for those whomhave gone to a priest or priestess only to have been defrauded. Shame on thosewho knowingly take advantage of Orisa worshipers all for the sake of a dollar. Ifasees all & knows all. I pray a resolution will come of this so that we can get back tohealing and helping society. Ifa gba wa o!June 9, 2013 at 3:04pm · Unlike · 2

Sue Kucklick Arencibia Well then, the question is what is to be done? I find theanswer of the individual of Ode Remo rather inadequate "ask for your money back"and come over here and we will fix it. What! After at least 20 years of being wellaware of these so-called questionable or fraudulent activities, this is theirresponse...the letter came out only last year. Generations upon generations oflineage descendants! Have they called anyone from Nigeria on the carpet for doingsingle-handed initiations to Ifa and orisha here in the United States and othercountries, or giving and wearing Lukumi-style elekes and charging good money forthem? If so, it has not been done in a public forum. I am talking about what I haveseen with my own eyes. Time to sort this all out, because Ifa cannot grow as a trueworld religion until we clean our houses and compounds of the accumulatinggarbage.June 9, 2013 at 7:11pm · Unlike · 5

Charles Spencer King Ogbo ato , Thank you all for your comments. I amunfortunately only the messenger, I do not have all the answers particularly for myvenerable friends in Yorubaland as I am a Cuban Lucumi Awo. We in Lucumi haveour own problems that are complicated by a lack of authority or the hierarchy that

exists in Yorubaland. In the US I expect little change, Yorubaland has a betterchance of some resolutions because IFA and orisa worship are not only part of theirculture, but education and it has ancient ties to their government The main thing isto continue to expose fraid and communicate its existence to the public, For this theinternet is an excellent vehicle. Sadly for my beloved Lucumi, we are not advancingat the same speed as Yorubaland, and dare I say, that fraud is at least aswidespread as Yorubaland (if not more so). Other diaspora based traditions sufferthe same fate as Lucumi, where our main tool is communication and publication ofculprits. We can expect saber rattling as iyou read in Mr. Wilson's gossip pots I'veincluded. We can expect threats as we read in Mr. Wilson's cyber bullying article.Yet you also read my responses to these two and should know that I am neitherafraid, nor intimidated. All three of these examples are men who are or weresuccessful in promotion, marketing, and sales. They have answers for all but themost diligent and well trained accuser, thus most are at a disadvantage whenresponding or accusing them. Then there are their many ardent followers who likethe horse we lead to water, refuses to drink.

I have not weighed in on Jaap Verduijn, and I personally like Jaap and though Idon't always (OK well perhaps often) agree with him, I think he has made somecontributions and he is passionate about his beliefs , and most of all he is upfrontand a known commodity who sometimes stimulates conversation. To his credit hehas not shied away from controversy. I respect Jaap for this. As for Awo Fategbe healso has made contributions, though I have interacted with him less than Jaap. Inboth these cases. it was Ode Remo who discussed them ... not me, nor was it myplace to defend them, yet I do state publicly, I respect both their contributions.

What's the solution Sue Kucklick Arencibia asks....mostly communication,publication and facing the problem. Perhaps Ode Remo Babalawos or Baba AwoLissi might give a discount for those who were defrauded, yet again this is not myplace to even suggest something as I am Lucumi. Logic says that those defraudedwill not want to pay for something twice they feel they already paid for. Yet tounderstand ase/ ashe and the value of lineage ancestors it is well worth it, nomatter how painful. Really, it is JUST the ase / ashe component that needs to berebooted...here's why: Training is training an initiate needs that regardless, anytraining or any of these three contributed might be correct and contributes to theinitiate completing their formal training, permissions would not change and theinitiates formal training would most likely contribute to that as well, thus two of thethree elements or components of the credentials really would not change....Nowback to the ase/ ashe and lineage ancestors, In Lucumi the fix then would betwofold, ocha and IFA, certainly the IFA could be secured with a simple isefa (manoor cofa ceremony) and this could either be combined with The Warriors or haveocha redo The Warriors (or necklaces) for two sets of godparents. Rank, title andtenure are the larger problems for the seasoned practitioner in both IFA and ocha,Yet even so, after an investigation by a Lucumi bona fide leader of an ile (witholofin) and his council.....there might be a way to supplement the training do thecofa/ mano ceremony and ocha Warriors and somehow transfer the ashe andconfirm rank, title, and perhaps even tenure. Accommodations should and I thinkcould be made.. in all but the mail order and Skype sold ceremonies. (Just my

opinion though) . FYI a mano/cofa combined with The Warriors is usually less than1000 USD,

I think it is noteworthy that these three frauds did not practice what they preached,yet in most cases they still insisted on training (to varying degrees) andpermissions (to varying degrees) for their godchildren and clients... therefore, itmight not be as bad as it could be... again this is just my opinion and certainly it ismy opinion for Lucumi NOT Yorubaland nor other traditions.June 9, 2013 at 11:37pm · Edited · Like · 1

Ayo Salami Ifaloore It would be good for us in the circle of Ifa and Orisa to findout facts and fully investigate whatever information opened to us before goingpublic to do this kind of character assassination. First of all, and for recordpurposes, i received my training under Odugbona Awo Fasipe Fagbohun in Oyobefore Ilobu under Late Babalola Ifatoogun. I was initiated to Ifa and my Ifa isOwonrin Otua. Anyone who wants to confirm or investigate is free to do so. OluwoFasipe is still alive and well in Oyo. The issue raised above between Kaabiesi ObaOgboni and I is actually an allegation which Oba Ogboni has since found out to befalse. Truly a Gary Kellman came to Nigeria and received Esu, Ifa initiation and Ori.From my personal opinion and for the good relationship within the Orisa circus, ialways believe that it is good for everything that concerns other Orisa to be doneby their respective devotees. In lieu of this, i contacted a devotee of Esu in Oyowho did the initiation for Gary Kellman. Ifa initiation was done by elder BabalawoFagbajumo and his son Ifarohunbi Ojo. I took part actively in all these from thebeginning to the end. Also, the initiation to Ori was done perfectly as i was taughtand can teach anyone who is in doubt about the steps. What went wrong was theamount charged for the Ori initiation; the overboard of which i willingly offered topay back to Gary as soon as i received royalty from my book sales. The otherinitiation raised was Ogboni initiation which also was done by the Ogboniconfraternity inside Osun grove. There is none of the these initiations that were notcomplete or done half way. For the benefit of doubt, Chief Mrs Doyin Ifaniyi wasthere and if anyone should say everything i have done is wrong, such personsshould come out with facts. My problem in this religion is not hidden to anyone. Iwas not born into the family of Babalawo; but then i have never taken any libertyto do anything by myself even though i know it well. I make sure that my eldersare always there to preside and supervise. So why are we doing this to ourselves? Iam not a fraud and i can stand anywhere with my head above the waters. Andplease Mr Spencer, you should please contact His Majesty, Oba Ogboni forclarification about this matter. I speak with Oba often and he also would soon makecomments here. Aboru boyeJune 10, 2013 at 3:10am · Like

Charles Spencer King Ayo Salami I have invited his holiness the oba to commentand we shall see if the matter is as you say closed and you are exonerated. I knowthe oba has more important matters, yet I am confident he will respond when it

pleases him and after due consideration. Patience will be rewarded. Bí ekòló bá kọebè, ara-a rè ni yó gbìn sí iJune 10, 2013 at 4:24am · Like

Ayo Salami Ifaloore Thank you very much Mr Spencer King. I shall see the Obatomorrow, Olodumare willing to make sure all these are settled..June 10, 2013 at 4:27am · Unlike · 1

Charles Spencer King Ayo, also I remind you that it was I who acted as youradvocate when your situation was discussed with Baba Adigun Olosun on his forum.It was I who remained neutral until the judgement was made on your activities,and your credentials were found wanting . You may think that I am your enemy,yet it was I who helped you with Yorubaland protocol so you could address thecharges. You also know very well I am a senoir Lucumi Baba Awo and yet youaddress me without protocol.....amazing. In any case, we will hear from his majestyin due course. May IFA guide you. Baba Awo ogbesaJune 10, 2013 at 4:37am · Like · 1

Ayo Salami Ifaloore Sir Baba Charles Spencer, i did not intend to be rude. I amsorry. I replied with sadness knowing that this is mudslinging and characterassassination. Any rudeness is regretted sirJune 10, 2013 at 4:45am · Unlike · 1

Charles Spencer King Accepted. Remember Awo, that regarding your section, itwas his majesty the oba who was ordering you and inquiring after meeting all daywith the six family members. That is the evidence provided, the rest is the matterof your business practices with the man from London, and regarding your religiouscredentials,training and permissions, There is no point rehashing this here until wehear from his holiness the oba.June 10, 2013 at 4:54am · Like

Alberto Olivera Jr Charles Spencer King - There is alot you wrote but it looksmore on credentials and who can do what. It seems like we are trying to punishthose that invest their time to speak up and teach us with their writings. Is thecontent of their writings wrong or hurtful? I thing Ayo Salami and Awo Falokun didtheir best to write their views so others will understand and able to appreciate whatthe yoruba belifes are. These are things that benifited many people. I have readsome of their stuff and found it useful. Back in Nigeria I think there are people notto happy they shared this info and maybe thats why the have been having these

challenges now.

I understand their may be some issues with their credentials but i doubt thatsomeone is going to go to a person and get initiated if they see no results orchange in their life. So they must have some Ashe in what they do. I think the goalis to help people in ifa. Besides Phillip Neimark are the other 2 author's hurtingpeople and damaging people's lives?

I am just curious cause I just skimmed the note you wrote and want to understandthe wrong they are doing and are their books completely wrong.

I know this is a bad analogie but it reminds me of Bruce Lee when he came to teachus Martial Arts and how many people tried to discredit him and tried to keep himfrom teaching.June 10, 2013 at 9:04am · Unlike · 2

Charles Spencer King Hello Awo , your opinion is valued. However if you wouldhave read in depth you would have seen that I made the point several times that allthree made contributions with their writings. I also made the point that not havingtheir credentials in order did not mean that they were not teaching others correctlyor items of value. The point I have made is that their credentials in all three casesare wanting and because they did not have the formal training nor permissions theyshould not be leading ceremonies and calling themselves Baba Awo from theYorubaland tradition. If they want to call themselves something else.. I have less ofa problem, but these three are operating as rouge elements not as part of a welldefined Yorubaland system. They want to make their own rules and do not wantany oversight, and they are making others under the guise of Yorubalandlegitimacy.. this I think is very wrong. ogbo atoJune 10, 2013 at 9:20am · Like · 2

Alberto Olivera Jr Thanks Charles Spencer King in a way it makes sense -especially if they are starting to create their own inventions/rules etc. Sorry I kindof skimmed it. I am just so use to in lukumi several houses have different ways todo things then there is always confusions and people are told oh it wasnt done rightjust cause their house does it different.

To me, I just want to see good things come out. People get problem resolved andpeople helping people get the best out of this life (reaching their true destiny). I amgreatful to IFA. I was blessed with this oppertunity that IFA gave me to helpmyself, the one's I love, and even strangers going through bad circumstances.

Just wanted to make sure people weren't being treated unjustly.June 10, 2013 at 9:32am · Unlike · 3

Kabiyesi Oluaye Ogboni Aborigine OGBO ATOI HAVE READ EVERYTHING HERE AND AM ONLY COMING HERE TO COMMENT ONTHE TRUTH, AND THAT IS ALL.FIRST ; I HAVE SPOKEN TO AYO ON THE PHONE AND THIS AFTERNOON ONFACEBOOK , HE PROMISED ME THAT THE YOUTUBE INTERVEW WILL BE TAKINGDOWN IN MINUTES, BECAUSE THE PEKE BEADS ON HIS NECK IS NOT HIS OWNBUT IT BELONGS TO BABA FATOOGUN BABALOLA. HE IS NOT OTUN AWO OFILOBU.WE IN THE ISESE CANNOT BE PARADING A FALSE PARADE IN THE COMMUNITYTHAT WE ARE HEALING. THIS IS FALSE. HE SHOULD WAIT HIS TIME TOCELEBRATE HIS CHIEFTANCY AND THE WORLD WILL CELEBRATE WITH HIM.SECOND ; HE IS NOT INITIATED OR TRAINED TO IFA BY BABA FATOOGUNBABALOLA , SO HE CANNOT BE WORKING UNDER HIS HOSPICE. THIS IS A TABOO.HE NEEDS TO USE HIS OWN OLUWO'S NAME FOR DEFENCE. HE IS YET TO COMEAND SEE ME AS HE PROMISED ME TODAY IN OUR CONVERSATION TO DEFENDHIMSELF.BUT ONE THING IS CLEAR TO ME IS THAT HE WAS NOT INITIATED AND TRAINEDBY BABA FATOOGUN BABALOLA, AND HE TOOK WHAT DIDN'T BELONG TO HIMFROM THE FAMILY WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION TO CLAIMED WHAT HE IS NOT.HE MAY HAVE BEEN INITIATED BY SOMEONE ELSE AND TRAINED. HE PROMISEDTO BRING PROOFS TO ME TOMORROW.THE CHILDREN OF BABA FATOOGUN BABALOLA HAS COME FORWARD WITH THISINFORMATION AND COMPLAINTS AND THEY ASKED THAT IT BE TREATED PUBLICLYAYO SALAMI HAS ACCEPTED TO ME FOR TAKING THE PEKE BEADS AND USED ITON YOUTUBE AND HE PROMISED TO MAKE AN APOLOGY TO THE COMMUNITY FORMISLEADING THEM, AND THIS IS WHAT I EXPECT HIM TO DO.THIRD; ANOTHER COMPLAINT CAME THROUGH ODUTOLA GARRY WITH HISINITIATION INTO ESU AND ORI , AND AYO SALAMI HAS ALSO PROMISED TO GIVEHIM BACK HIS MONEY.OGBONI ABORIGINE ARE WATCHING CLOSELY ON EVERYONE INCLUDING OUROWN MEMBERS ON MISREPRESENTATION IN ISESE, AND WE ARE TAKINGGREATLY ACTIONS ON THIS.I HAVE GIVEN AYO SALAMI MY ORDERS TO STOP DEALING IN ISESE AND ALLOWTHE TRUE BABALAWO TO DO THEIR SPIRITUAL WORK UNTIL HE IS FULLY TRAINEDTO DO SO. HE IS ALLOW TO WRITE HIS BOOK AS LONG AS HE GIVE THEBABALAWOS THEIR FAIRLY DUES.WE SHOULD STOP MISLEADING OURSELVES WITH LIES AND SIMPLY TELL THETRUTH AND ALLOW PEACE TO REIGN.THE ABORIGINE OGBONI ARE IN FULL EFFECT PRESENTLY WITH THIS CASE ANDWE WILL BE MONITORING A LOT OF PEOPLE PROPAGATING FALSEHOOD ON ALLISESE ON THE INTERNET TO PEOPLE IN THE DIASPORA AND WE WILL BEDISCLAIMING THEM.OGBO ATOOGBO EDANONILE AGBE GBOGBO WA O

June 10, 2013 at 12:17pm · Edited · Unlike · 10

Charles Spencer King I can appreciate your concerns Awo, I think we all wisheverything was beautiful, correct and there was no fraud, misrepresentations,controversies, but that is not reality in my opinion, and probably not the opinion ofothers who have been scammed. Change only comes through exchanges of ideas,leading to discussion and perhaps debate. I fully recognize the massive work ofwriting and I am aware and salute those who have dedicated their time and sharedknowledge. I tried not to minimize this trio's writings as I listed all their books Icould. But this is a separate issue that I am addressing with regards to credentials(ashe, training and permissions) and leading ceremonies or making priests in ochaand IFA. How would you feel if you thought you were a Babalawo in Ode Remo andlearned you were null and void? Hopefully you understand it is not theircontributions as writers I am discussing.June 10, 2013 at 9:46am · Like · 2

Alberto Olivera Jr No it's good. Thanks for shedding light on this and also likethat Ayo Salami still have permission to write. It was sad to read that he wasmisrepresenting his status. If IFA teaches us anything us Awo's have to follow therules more than your average person. Lead by example. But things like this set abad example in something so beautiful with the purpose and ability to help.June 10, 2013 at 9:55am · Unlike · 1

Charles Spencer King Ogbo ato your majesty, and my humble thanks forspeaking clearly on this subject, and visiting my page to share your wisdom andjustice. I believe the irunmole and IFA are smiling, as we all should by your gloriouspresence and judgement, today. May your ancestors continue to inspire you, theirunmole protect you, and Orunmila share his wisdom with you. Baba Awo ogbesaJune 10, 2013 at 9:57am · Like

Kabiyesi Oluaye Ogboni Aborigine IFAKOLADE PLEASE RESPECT YOURSELF ANDLEAVE THE WOMEN OUT OF THIS PROBLEMS, I CAN SEE THAT YOU ARE THEREASONS WHY A LOT OF ONILE CHILDREN ARE NOT WORKING TOGETHER. YOUARE PART OF THE PROBLEMS , BUT NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION.THIS IS MY CONVERSATION TODAY WITH AYO:

Oba Ogboni Ade Olakisanand my main problem in this matter is , Ayo why did you stole Baba peke as OtunAwo and show it on youtube as your own chieftancy title ?because Niyi brought the peke beard to show me that he retrieved it back fromyou.

Ayo SalamiI did not call myself the Otun awo of Ilobu. I made the record straight and told theaudience i am NOT OTUN AWO.

Oba Ogboni Ade OlakisanAyo why did you do that ?

Ayo SalamiThat may have been a mistake, because i wore it only to show off....nothing more

Oba Ogboni Ade Olakisanwhy Ayo ? Why , this is taboo

Ayo SalamiAnd that was only once......and the one time, i told the family before i took itEmi fi pon awo le ni sir. I did not see as taboo......but it may have been anunintentional mistake

Oba Ogboni Ade Olakisani saw the you tube and with one man Ifakolade calling you chief of ilobu , this areevidences against you, is too much

Oba Ogboni Ade Olakisanyou need to apologize to all the family of Baba Ifatoogun for all this misconceptionsthat you parade in the Diaspora.

Ayo SalamiIf it will b too much, i will ask Ifakolade to pull the youtube down

I can do that within minutes.

But sir, as a father, don't you think it would be appropriate for Niyi to call me, tellme all these instead of having to broadcast me all around....?

HERE ARE THE TRUTH THAT THE CHILDREN OF ONILE SHOULD KNOW, WE AREBROTHERS AND SISTERS KEEPER , WE SHOULD ONLY PROPAGATE THE TRUTHAND IF NEED BE MAKE CORRECTIONS. EVERYONE HAVE PROBLEMS FROM FAMILYOR ORGANISATIONS, BUT THE ABORIGINE OGBONI DUTIES ARE TO KEEP THEISESE ALIGN WITH THE TRUTH. ISESE LAGBAOGBO ATOOGBO EDANONILE A GBE GBOGBO WA OJune 10, 2013 at 10:21am · Edited · Unlike · 5

Charles Spencer King Your majesty and readers, I deleted the comments ofIfakolade, as well as my responses to each of them, they were largely off topic, andpersonal attacks. Furthermore I have blocked him. I do nt like censorship yet hisattempts to hijack this serious discussion, justifies my action.June 10, 2013 at 10:24am · Like

Lekan Babalola Very sad....June 10, 2013 at 12:07pm · Unlike · 2

Lekan Babalola I think it is very sad that some of my fellow Awos will be cheatingsome people to survive. In Odu Ogberikusa aka Ogbe Sotito. Ifa told us that. If aBabalawo is in grave want, Let the Babalawo lie not, If a herbalist is in need, Letthe herbalist not be dishonesty, Sought divination to Orunmila when unknownpeople ( Pretenders) were waging war against him. He was advised to offer andperform and practice unnecessary distraction. He complied. Ye pretenders, youhave all been exposed. Ye pretenders I know Python which pretended in likeness ofthe Gabon Viper, Ye Pretenders, You have all been exposed, Ye Pretenders, we nowrecognise you. Which pretended in likeness of Boa Constrictor. Ye pretender, youhave all been exposed. You pretenders, we can now see through impersonator whoclaim that he is Orunmila himself. You have all been exposed. From Practical IfaDivination-Ifa Reference Manual Vol 3 by Babalawo Solagbade Popoola.June 10, 2013 at 12:35pm · Unlike · 3

Awoniyi Babalola Fatoogun I am prince Babalola Awoniyi, one of. late babaFatoogun children, am using this medium to ask the general public to challenge meabout my thi comment that'' my dad had never been Oluwo to mr Ayo Salaami!there was no time in family record that he was serving apprentiship as OMO AWOto my late DAD!June 10, 2013 at 2:32pm · Unlike · 7

Lekan Babalola If kiin paa iro Ifa kiin seke ohun tii Ifa ba rii ni Ifa yio so ( Ifa doesnot lie, Ifa does not gossip, Ifa will always says what Ifa sees) Ogbo Ato.June 10, 2013 at 2:34pm · Unlike · 2

Awoniyi Babalola Fatoogun Concerning his initiation into IFA, to the best of myrecollection, I was told by somebody that he was initiated when I arrived fromNYSC in the year 2010 contrary to his claim that my late dad initiated him.June 10, 2013 at 2:38pm · Unlike · 5

Awoniyi Babalola Fatoogun Am the one who led members of my family toexplain everything about AYO SALAAMI to OBA OGBONI ADE OLAKISANJune 10, 2013 at 2:49pm · Unlike · 6

YeyeLawo Alagbawi Eda Olomitutu Uhmmmmmm..........I was accused by thelowest hungriest power crazed Kooaid short man syndrome small claims courtlawyer in the tradition always pointing finger at "MY Oluwo" compound this ,compound that " for a cover crap for excuse on the bogus lies on the youtube offive minutes fame on all kind of lies with stolen beads on proclaiming "Chief".Shameless bastard IFAKOLADE for pointing his bloody scamming fingers at me ,when literally I had sent an email to Ayo privately last week to put a stop to thesenonsense before it hits the fan. IFAKOLADE you have been put to shame again withmy name in your mouth while you and your Oluwo will roast one day with whatOgun has prepare waiting for your Asses !. Please allow me to let you into my worldfor a second : I WILL DIE KICKING MY FEET IN YOUR BUTTS SCREAMINGSCAMMERS. I wish that Charles unblock you back so I can nail your small emptybrain to my Shango pot for victory and teach any one of you a lesson again neverto blame me for y'all screwed up MOUTH !Now !. that everyone in question has come forward to identify themselves , will youstill call all of them OLOMITUTU ? OLE OLORISA OLOSA, OLORIBURUKU, OMUGO,AWON ENITI AYE NSHE . SMDH !!!!June 10, 2013 at 3:50pm · Edited · Like · 2

Kabiyesi Oluaye Ogboni Aborigine OGBO ATOOGBO EDAN

I WILL BE POSTING THE OGBONI ABORIGINE DECISION TOMORROW FOR ANYONETO READ.WE HAVE COMPLETED OUR INVESTIGATION ON AYO SALAMI

ONILE A GBE WA OJune 11, 2013 at 5:40pm · Unlike · 1

Kabiyesi Oluaye Ogboni Aborigine OGBO ATOJune 13, 2013 at 2:40pm · Like

Kabiyesi Oluaye Ogboni Aborigine THE ABORIGINE OGBONI NEED THREE MOREDAYS TO LISTEN TO AGBOGBON OSOGBO BABALAWO FAKAYODE FANIYI AND THE

FAMILY OF BABALOLA RESOLUTION ON THE ISSUE OF AYO SALAMIOGBO EDANONILE A GBE WA OJune 13, 2013 at 2:42pm · Unlike · 1

Jaime Jhovany Torres Ase O!! desde Mexico, gracias por hacer esta extensainvestigacion. Seguramente Esu se encargara de ellos y ni con todo su dinero niclientela podran corromper la justicia divina, como dice oditrupon "los actos de latierra son fiscalizados en el cielo"June 14, 2013 at 1:22am · Like · 2

Oloye Ifa'ola Fatunmbi · 10 mutual friendscuidado¡¡¡¡, un mayor es autentificado por el cielo, no por los seres humanos, haymucha, muchisima gente que no se ha iniciado en Ifa y posee las cualidades de IwaPele, poseen conocimientos sobre las leyes del mundo y del universo, poseen maspercepcion y espiritualidad que muchos iniciados, dejemos de devastar nuestrareligion, a mi me consta que tambien en Nigeria hay estafas y mala orientacion alos hombres de occidente, en todo lugar encontraremos gente buena haciendocosas dudosas, y gente mala haciendo lo que parece un bien, no soy quien parajuzgar a alguien que no esta presente para defenderse y mucho menos cuandoquien acusa tampoco ha sido testigo material de tantos hechos narrados finalmentea partir de "correos" y "cartas", que debiesen ser analizadas y presentadas ante lasautoridades religiosas de Ifa, y no en un fb personal, si son responsables de algodeben afrontarlo, pero con la oportunidad de ser escuchados, solo Ifa conoce laverdad que cada dia lacera, averguenza y causa tremendo detrimento a la FeYoruba mundial. Fa'ola Fatunmbi.June 14, 2013 at 2:26am · Like

Charles Spencer King Your Majesty Oba Ogboni Ade Olakisan, Please excuse mybeing forward and offering perhaps the obvious. The enlightened know that this is adifficult decision and particularly so early in your illustrious reign. Of course you willlook at all the facts (even the simple ones like Ayo's many contradictions (somemight call outright lies) in his first statement here on this thread.... yet if we lookdeeper at his statement, why would he lie if he knew you his judge was due todecide on his faith? This is self destructive behavior that I'm sure causesconsternation for you and the elders, enlightened and we promoting our religion. Iagree it is wise to listen to an elder like Baba Fakayode Faniyi, yet I wouldencourage you to also hear from Baba Adigun Olosun who with YeyeLawo OlomitutuSengese Ekitiland investigated Ayo, Baba Olosun will support Yeye's report to you,but also provide a seasoned elders perspective, that should always be considered.Baba Olosun knows the facts quite well and due to the importance of this issue Iwould recommend listening to him (if you have not already done so). modupe.June 14, 2013 at 5:36am · Edited · Like

YeyeLawo Alagbawi Eda Olomitutu Everyone knows the fact, but people need torealize that just because he wrote the book that they think it helps a lot of people,but a lot of Elders he promised to compensate was defrauded, and the book has nomeaning anyway, the book only did a lot of damages to a lot of devotees and causea lot ignorance everywhereJune 14, 2013 at 6:18am · Edited · Unlike · 2

Kabiyesi Oluaye Ogboni Aborigine OGBO ATO, OGBO EDANOGBONI ABORIGINE INVESTIGATION ON AYO SALAMI IS STILL GOING ON ,PLEASE MY PEOPLE BE PATIENCE WITH US. AGBOGBON OF OSOGBOLAND ISCOMING OVER TOMORROW FOR A FINAL DECISION. ONILE A GBE WA OOJune 16, 2013 at 9:58am · Unlike · 2

Kabiyesi Oluaye Ogboni Aborigine OGBO ATOTHE FAMILY OF THE LATE OLUWO FATOOGUN BABALOLA HAS FINALLY REACHED APLACE OF RECONCILATION WITH AYO SALAMI WITH THE HELP OF ARABAOSOGBOLAND OLUWO IFAYEMI ELEBUIBON.AFTER LISTENING TO BOTH SIDES THIS MORNING AT ARABA OSOGBOLANDCOMPOUND, AYO SALAMI HAS APOLOGIZED FOR IMPERSONATING A CHIEFTANCYTHAT BELONG TO OLUWO FATOOGUN BABALOLA OF OTUN AWO ILOBU ONYOUTUBE WHEN HE WORE THE PEKE CHIEFTANCY BEAD AND WAS ADDRESSED ASA " CHIEF " BY CHRIS CARAZZANI " IFAKOLADE " IN AN INTERVIEW.PART OF THIS INTERVIEW IS AS FOLLOWS :

" The interview with Chief Salami took place in Isara Remo, Nigeria on April 17,2011"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW-tHypvvxM

THIS INTERVIEW WAS NEVER APPROVED BY ANY ELDERS OF YORUBALANDAGAINST OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN LUKUMI , BUT WAS CARRIED OUTSOLELY BY BOTH MEN IN THE INTERVIEW IN ISARA REMO AND IT WAS DONEWITH DECEPTION MAINLY FOR RECOGNITION ON THE PART OF BOTH MEN.

AYO SALAMI HAS TOOK A FULL RESPONSIBILITIES FOR THIS SPIRITUAL TABOOON HIS SIDE TODAY JUNE 17, 2013 AND HAS ASKED THE BABALOLA TO FORGIVEHIM FOR TAKING THE BEADS OF THEIR ANCESTOR WITHOUT ANY OF THE FAMILYKNOWLEDGE SIMPLY TO FOOL EVERYONE IN THE DIASPORA FOR FINANCIALGAINS AND RECOGNITION.

THE ISSUE OF ODUTOLA GARRY KELLMAN WAS ALSO PRESIDED ON AND AYOSALAMI HAS AGREED TO PAY BACK MONEY OVERLY CHARGED THROUGHINNAPROPRITE ORI INITIATION THAT HE PERFORMED WITHOUT BABALAWOTRAINING AND SUPERVISION.

AYO SALAMI HAS BEEN SPIRITUALLY RE-DIRECTED BY ARABA OSOGBOLAND TOGET A PROPER TRAINING IN AWO/BABALAWO BEFORE REPRESENTING HIMSELFTO ANYONE IN THE DIASPORA.

THE OGBONI ABORIGINE MANDATES AS SUCH :

AYO SALAMI HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE MOVEMENT OF IFA/ORISA TRADITIONTHROUGH WRITING THIS BOOK : Ifa: A Complete Divination WIITHOUT GIVINGANY FINANCIAL CREDIT DUE TO ANY BABALAWO THAT GAVE OUT SUCH WISDOMTO BEGIN HIS JOURNEY. SO WE ARE ASKING HIM TO GIVE CREDIT DUE TO EVERYELDERS WHO HAS HELPED HIM TO ATTAIN POPULARITY IN IFA / ORISACOMMUNITY.

AS A BODY OF OGBONI THAT MANDATE PROTOCOLS, WE ARE INSTRUCTING AYOSALAMI TO STOP REPRESENTING HIMSELF AS AN AWO/BABALAWO DUE TO NONCOMPLETION OF TRAINING AND NO PROOFS OF A GOOD STABLE TRAININGUNDER ANY OLUWO THAT HE DOES DO IFA / ORISA RESEACHES WITH.

WE ARE ASKING HIM TO STOP USING THE NAME OF OLUWO FATOOGUN BABALOLAAS HIS OLUWO SIMPLY BECAUSE THE FAMILY OF BABALOLA HAS CLEARLY GIVENPROOFS THAT AYO SALAMI WAS NEVER INITIATED OR TRAINED BY THEIR FATHER.

AYO SALAMI IS NOT A BABALAWO / CHIEF YET AND WE ARE ASKING EVERYONETO BE VERY CLEAR ON THIS TITLE AND MISCONCEPTION.

OGBO ATOOGBO EDANOGBO AKOKONIKOONILE A GBE WA O.

Interview with Chief Ayo Salami; & the Oba Oriate Accord (Part 1 of 7)This is a seven part interview with renowned author and Babalawo, Chief Ayo...YOUTUBE.COM

June 17, 2013 at 12:47pm · Edited · Unlike · 2 · Remove Preview

Charles Spencer King Commentary: I'm sure not what most victims were hopingfor. I am disappointed no mention was made about those who Ayo Salami "made:either as the leader of a ceremony in IFA or ocha (Ode Remo with Folokunaddressed this and stated clearly that those Falokun made had no value.) as youcan read in the Folokun section of this note. Chris (aka Awo Kool ade) has seemedonce again to have slipped through any substantial discipline. Salami's camp iscurrently trying to sell an egbe ceremony and we'll see if this continues. I am glad

Gary gets his cash back.. yet when is not addressed. Still I am wondering about theothers who paid good money for credentials and they are not addressed. HisMajesty the oba his decision, yet that does not mean I have to like his decision orwill laud it when I do not think it is enough. This is my commentary on this subject.June 17, 2013 at 1:28pm · Like · 2

YeyeLawo Alagbawi Eda Olomitutu Can you please unblock this rattle mouthAwo Kooaid so he can see how we roll with Elders in Osun State please ?June 17, 2013 at 2:07pm · Like · 1

Kabiyesi Oluaye Ogboni Aborigine little by little we eat the rattle snake head,ogbo ato, ogbo edan, ogbo okokoniko.June 17, 2013 at 3:07pm · Unlike · 3

Charles Spencer King I unblocked him when you asked last time YeYe. But I donot tolerate potty mouth comments from ANYONE on my page, and as the host thatis my right and obligation to protect my guests and this sanctuary.June 17, 2013 at 3:28pm · Edited · Like

Alfredo Gil · Friends with Babalawo Cubano and 2 othersIm chill,i can't express my sadness reading that...also i know a lot of people whowent muy countryland(Cuba) selling services as Awo, onisegun, etc and a few of ushad dubitative posture about them.We misterio contribute to faceup them andpunish their actions...stay blessed..Ogbo atoJune 17, 2013 at 3:39pm · Unlike · 1

Charles Spencer King Baba Adigun Olosun ......Olomitutu, what od the money ofMartins which he promised to return when we too the matter up with him?Blessings. Baba OlosunJune 17, 2013 at 5:46pm · Like · 1

YeyeLawo Alagbawi Eda Olomitutu Again I said ..........Baba Martin belongs toyour ILEDI in OSOGBO. From what I knew MARTIN was lucky because the moneythat he sent to AYO through the western union was not release to AYO. ( ?????? )June 17, 2013 at 5:48pm · Like · 2

YeyeLawo Alagbawi Eda Olomitutu WHERE IS THE RATTLE MOUTH KOOLAID TOMAKE ANY COMMENT ON THIS ? , I CANT WAIT TO BURST HIM AND HIS OLUWOEFUNWASHIT IN ISARA REMO FOR SEXUAL INNAPROPRIATE BEHAVIORS WITHDEVOTEES. I GOT SO MUCH WRITE-UPS ON THEM, MY HANDS ARE BURNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!June 17, 2013 at 5:51pm · Like · 2

YeyeLawo Alagbawi Eda Olomitutu This foolish idiots sitting like some trolls andthrowing stones when sitting in glass house. YEWANDE ANIFALAWO .............whereare you now ? Each week we will be bursting these fools everywhere .June 17, 2013 at 5:53pm · Like · 2

YeyeLawo Alagbawi Eda Olomitutu they all called themselves "AUTHORS" whenall they do is steal from innocent people !June 17, 2013 at 5:54pm · Unlike · 2

Ifayemi Elebuibon today i call all Ayo salami brother from ilobu to my hosuethe matter had been settled amicably he promise to pay the money on pay palwhen it is ready his brother from ilobu acknowledge he make initiation after demiseof thier father it true ojugbona awo ilobu was there during his initiation i dont wantto go into details but everthings had been resolved today thanks to all concernARABA OSOGBO IFAYEMI ELEBUIBONJune 17, 2013 at 7:57pm · Unlike · 3

Kabiyesi Oluaye Ogboni Aborigine BABA MI OGBO ATO RE OOOGBO EDANONILE A GBE WA OOOJune 17, 2013 at 8:53pm · Unlike · 1

Awodele Babalola THANK YOU VERY MUCH BABA ARABA IFAYEMI.WE REALLYAPPRECIATE YOU TOO MUCH.AS HE SAID,EVERYTHING HAD BEEN AMICABLYSETTLED.IT WAS YESTERDAY THAT BABA ARABA OF OSOGBO INVITED BOTHSIDES AYO AND WE,BABALOLAS' FAMILY TO SETTLE EVERYTHING.AWODELEBABALOLAJune 17, 2013 at 9:01pm · Unlike · 2

Charles Spencer King Ogbo ato, There are authors and there are authors. Mybooks I wrote as a novice Awo, and are written specifically for those new and

outsiders. This is a far cry from writing as an expert, or even leaving your readersto assume you are an expert. This was part of Ayo's problem he compiled odu frommany notable sources and Babalawo, and stayed silent on where the info camefrom, therefore the unenlightened wrongly assumed it was from him. He wascomplacent when he should have been wary of the consequences of his silence. Hecertainly made other mistakes, broke other taboo, and committed other crimes, butthis was one that was apparent to the enlightened, while not to the naive. Here is acomment I just made on Baba Solagbade Popoola's astute comment that is relevanthere:

Charles Spencer King Baba, I agree 100% and applaud your efforts. for me andmany seasoned Awo, it is sadly comical the way the unenlightened and untrainedare misusing odu. Few even bother to identify ese. apply patakin, consider ire orosogbo, or have a clue what ebo is appropriate. Odu are regurgitated on the Net, inforums and here on Facebook in groups, there is even a few aps for odu IFA !Malpractice is exactly the correct word. These fools seem to have no idea thatdivination is something we train for on the mat, painstakingly learning not just oduIFA, but ese, patakin, ebo etc, and while each of these has some value, it iscomplete sets that match each of the components that is the skill of the diviner, nothow many individual components he (or she) knows. Practitioners and clients inboth diaspora and Yorubaland in whatever tradition need to be educated to the factthat there are three components to a priests credentials in either IFA or ocha thatare 1) the ashe/ ase where and whom this comes from or their lineage ancestors 2)Their formal training and the quality, length and extent of it. No Awo is ever fullytrained as we train and learn until Esu comes to take our ori to Olorun, yet we areformally trained, or we are supposed to be in each and everything we acquire(rank). 3) Permissions, ile with more difficult permissions in whatever ile inwhatever traditions produce the best priests (and priestesses). Those that have nopermissions or easy to obtain permissions are part of the problem, not the solutionand should be shunned. Only a fool from a foolish irrelevant ile would start diviningdivining for clients without significant formal training. Its a process, we start withdivining for our godfather or mother, then slowly with other students, and forourselves, with elders at their feet on the mat, then with others from our ile. It is aprocess that takes years to get to the point where a priest is seasoned enough todo things for clients and divining is one of the most difficult to become competentin. Its much like the medical practice, you would not want a student doing surgeryon you would we? If we have a condition, we see a specialist not a generalpractitioner. If the clients GP does not refer a client to a specialist he or she is aquack. The same is true with diviners, they are specialists or are supposed to be.The client who does not ask for their credentials and referrals and check thesediligently are fools.June 17, 2013 at 11:50pm · Like · 3

Mercedes Morgana Reyes Shame. On them !June 19, 2013 at 4:09am · Like

Ayo Salami Ifaloore I salute everyone who has contributed in one way or theother on this lingering crisis. The stealthy walking of the tiger does not signify beingscared.Fact, For many of you who do not know, Oba Ogboni is not lettered (this is not saidin derogatorymanner). So who is writing all these in the name of Kabiesi, ObaOgboni Alakisan? Who is the person that has his password? Who is impersonatingKabiesi? IP Address tracing indicates it is coming from the US. Baba is in NigeriaFact, Ayo Salami was initiatedFact, He was trained both in Oyo and Ilobu ( and still learning)Fact, He opted to repay Mr Gary Kellman, not because the initiations wereincomplete or incorrect, but because of the brotherly relationship that they bothkept before something snapped. There is no fixed price that anyone is mandated tocharge for any initiations. Whatever is charged, in so much as the rituals arecorrectly done, the costs has become inconsequential.Fact, whatever I have or made today, Baba Wande Abimbola, Babalola Ifatoogun,Adeboye Ifatoogun and Fasipe Fagbohun made me and for which I would eternallybe grateful. Especially to Baba Babalola Ifatoogun, whom I met in around 1987when living with Baba Wande Abimbola in the University of Ife and who took me asa child of his bowels. During the time when I had nothing; I would only touch myforehead on the ground in front of him and he would start chanting poems uponpoems of Ifá for me. Many times, he would come to Oyo to teach Kolapo Abimbolaand I ifa. He was the greatest example of humility and knowledge. When he died, Imade an oath by his gravesite that if I ever made anything in life, I would do all Ican among the widows and the kids. I am very honored to be able to do a little;and to enjoy the hospitality even within the children even despite the rancorcreated by some evil people who wants us to disintegrate.I see and I know myself as being well brought up and from a good home. It is nonews that my father and mother are both Christians and that I strayed and decidedto become a Babaláwo. I was taught never to talk at the height of tyranny, lest yousay something that you will regret for life. To respect the elders so that you willhave wards behind you to respect you; I was also taught in Ifá that silence isgoldenBaba Ifatoogun would always say, it is not the number of poems you know thatmatters, pray to your Ifá and Ori so that you will find good people to recite it for. Orwhat is the essence of knowing the innumerable verses of Ifá and not find anyoneto use them to heal? In my entire lifetime of studying Ifá, perhaps I can chant 2 or3 poems in almost all Odù. There are some I can do 5 or more but all I know is thatOlódùmarè, my Ori and Ifá had blessed me to meet good people in my life. That ismy first problem. How can Ayo Salami be successful when he was not born into thereligion?

Mr Gary Kellman says the initiation to Èsù done for him was wrong, incomplete andfake; if he wants to test, he should pour palm kernel oil unto the Èsù. He claimswhat he found at the base of the Èsù is dirt and leaves. And I ask, what were youexpecting to find? A human head? It is one thing for Èsù to break by falling from a

platform or just by one force or the other; it is another for an initiate to willfullybreak the Èsù. Sooner or later, Èsù will ask you why. I learnt how to make Èsù fromthe best priests of Èsù. Even though I can do these Èsù, my belief is that aBabaláwo should not be all receiving; leaving the other Òrìsà hungry. I also do thisbecause I want to make sure that the Ase comes from the direct lineage ofdevotees of Èsù for fuller assumption of spiritual realm. The people who did Èsù forGary are descendants of Èsù and also Babalawos. There is no initiation that I haveever done alone. I have people who know exceedingly more than I do; when thingsare knotty or when I do not know something, I call on them with humility. I knowhow to cast Ifá, I know how to receive Ibo, I know how to recite the verses and thetechnicalities behind chanting to suit the situation at hand; I know how to offer theresultant sacrifices. People who I have consulted for can bear testimonies from Asiato South Africa to the US. They are still alive.

Let us stop mudslinging; you will think you are defacing or bring down Ayo Salami.All you are doing is deface Ifá. Ifá mends the world and not destroy. By destroyingthose following Ifá, you are destroying the religion. There are many people willingto come into this religion. Is this what they are coming to see? People who will doanything to bring down another person all in the name of what? Where have we putour Iwa Pele? Where did we put dialogue? Where is the Ifá that we have beentaught? Let us all remember the last day!!! I want to stand before my ancestorswith my head raised up to have done the little I can. I am a mortal man; I makemistakes and I am not perfect. But I tried the little I can and I have come home. Iwant to receive a pat on my back as haven done well.June 19, 2013 at 4:20am · Like · 1

Charles Spencer King Ayo Salami, you bring up some questions that needanswering. These will surface in time I am sure. However, you obviously hadmeetings with the oba (as YOU stated here). You also stated in your first commenthere: " The issue raised above between Kaabiesi Oba Ogboni and I is actually anallegation which Oba Ogboni has since found out to be false." Are you standing bythat comment insisting you were not sanctioned in any way and exonerated of allcharges ????? Are you saying that whomever is writing for the oba (if indeedsomeone is . or as you claim to be someone NOT authorized to do so) is notaccurate in the sanctions that were leveled against you ? (notably A) Ordered toapologize to for wearing and stealing chiefs beads? B ) ordered to re pay Gary? C )ordered to give credit to those who contributed to your books? d) Ordered to stopcalling yourself an awo/ babalawo because you are not fully trained? Please informus for the record which if any of these are incorrect.June 19, 2013 at 5:21am · Like · 1

YeyeLawo Alagbawi Eda Olomitutu @ am glad your lying ass is exposed again,using my name to cover up your shit. you must die with eyes wide open in usingOrunmila name in vain, you can go anywhere in this world to verify my life, and youwill always be hitting the wall. You knew this...See More

June 19, 2013 at 10:13am · Unlike · 2

Kabiyesi Oluaye Ogboni Aborigine @ AYO SALAMI :OGBO ATO , GOOD YOU HAVE REMOVED YOUR INSULT THAT YOU POSTEDDECEIVING THE CHILDREN OF ONILE ABOUT ME AND MY EXISTENCE, AND MYEDUCATION ( EEWO NI O , ORO YEN KO GBA ENU E ) YOU KNOW THE TRUTH ANDWE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT BOTH WAYS.AS THE OBA OGBONI, I CAN WRITE MY WRITE-UPS OR HAVE MY CABINET DO ITFOR ME. THE DECISION IS STILL FINAL.GIVE ME A CALL RIGHT AWAY OR YOU WILL HAVE ONILE PROBLEM07012869614.OBA ADETOYESHE OLAKISANOLUAYE ABORIGNE OGBONI AGBAYEJune 19, 2013 at 10:22am · Unlike · 2

Charles Spencer King Your Majesty as you can see he has not removed it fromhere, nor other locations on Facebook in groups and on his cohorts (like Awo Koolade's) pages. I am shocked that he has disrespected not only your august person,but disrespected the office you were born to. Shameful, deceitful, and certainly notthe behavior of a student of IFA. Ariwo àjìjà ní ńdorunJune 19, 2013 at 10:42am · Like · 2

Gary Kellman Grow up Ayo please your a big man old enough to be my dad butyou act more like my son.Its over i don't care about you.June 19, 2013 at 10:42am · Like · 1

YeyeLawo Alagbawi Eda Olomitutu this is his ways of telling people back homethat he has complied, but we over here knows that HE IS NOT A BABALAWO. HEHAS NO JACK TRAINING AND HAS NOT BEEN DECLARED TO BE ONE BY ANYOLUWO AS OF YET !June 19, 2013 at 10:44am · Like · 1

YeyeLawo Alagbawi Eda Olomitutu Please Charles, let them know at the otherpages that the Oba has request his presence at his palace, he left the messagethere on his page.June 19, 2013 at 10:45am · Like · 1

Charles Spencer King Does the palace have a prison Yeye? Or an executioner?...;-)))))June 19, 2013 at 10:48am · Like · 1

YeyeLawo Alagbawi Eda Olomitutu both ! LOLOLOLOL........June 19, 2013 at 10:51am · Unlike · 2

Charles Spencer King CHARLES THIS IS FLOKUN RESPONSE TO YOUR POST ONAYOAwo FalokunI would like to suggest that this issue can and should be considered from theperspective of traditional awo. Like it or not, for reasons that are explicitlydiscussed in Odu Ifa we as Awo have a code of conduct that defines how we relatedto our community and how we related to one another. Ayo Salami has writtenseveral books which are an excellent source of information about traditional Ifa. Heboth wrote about things that I know to be true and which have never been writtenin English and was able to give me clarity and insight on issues about which I wasconfused. The clarity he provided was inherent in the logic of his presentation andthe credibility of his sources. When someone makes a contribution of thismagnitude Awo have a spiritual obligation to acknowledge that contribution. Noticethat I did not say we should recognize this contribution and we might recognize thiscontribution I said we have a spiritual obligation to acknowledge his contribution. Iam thirty years older than Ayo Salami and by every indicator within our faith I amhis elder so as his elder I say to the community a dupe pupo isegun odu Ifa a dupepupo Egun ile Salami ire lona iponri atidwo orun. As a man who is biologically olderthat Baba Salami I am thanking him for the valuable contribution he has made tomy understanding of our faith. Praising those who are younger than us is a spiritualobligation and responsibility. I apologize to Baba Salami for being slow in fulfillingmy obligation to him and his family. To be clear there are things that he and Idisagree about. We have discussed those things in private. We have come to abetter understanding of each other as a result of those conversations. No one otherthan he and I will ever know the content of those conversations and I will never useour disagreements as a basis for denigrating his character. To do so would be aviolation of my oath as awo and a violation of my oath as ogboni. The main chargeagainst him from those who obviously have no understanding of the responsibilitiesof being an awo is that he is not initiated. Okay I have never heard him claim to beinitiated he has never used Ifa titles to identify himself in his books and thequestion of whether or not he is initiated is ill relevant to anyone who does nothave a student teacher relationship with the man. If you are truly a traditional awoand you meet another traditional awo in the street there are things said and handgestures used that identify you as an initiate. People who do not know that and areoblivious to that would be well served to stop showing their ignorance. Having saidAyo Salami is an Awo. In traditional Ifa as it is practiced in Nigeria you only speakof the specifics of your initiation to men and women who were present at yourinitiation which makes any challenge to Ayo Salami non traditional, irellevant

offense uniformed vicisous and I dare say a bit racists if not totally afro phobic. Beclear it is also a crime. Let me say that it again it is also a crime. I graduated fromlaw school 40 years ago so listen and learn. UNESCO has listed Ifa as anendangered indigenous cultural and religious tradition. UNESCO is a branch of theUnited Nations which enforces its mandates through the International Court in theHauge in Holland. That court has established the right of any indigenous culture todefine its beliefs in any way they see fit. Any attack on that self definition isconsidered cultural appropriation and there are criminal sanctions for this action.Telling Ayo Salami he does not know how to do initiations is a violation of UNESCOprotocol. Anyone who engages in the Afro phobic racist denigration of Africa menand women who express their belief in a faith created by their ancestors needs tolook around ask a few questions and figure out what planet they are living on. Ihave no opinion about the character of the people who engage in this shamefulbehavior but I do have an opinion about the affect of that behavior on our faith. Itis and always wlll be considered by me an attack on my faith. Someone who doesnot show me the courtesy of allowing me to exercise my right to freedom of religionis engaging in actions that sociologists call fascism. Ifa is rooted in unconditionallove. Facism is rooted in the evil effort to control others and hear me well on this Iwill fight facism until my dying breath to insure my children have a safe place tolive after I am gone. Everyone is a good and blessed person we are all spiritualbeings having a human experience but if your perception of self is so evil that youbelieve facism is a good thing know this you will not impose facism on the world bystanding on my neck. The great german theologican Rienhold Neibur said when theNazis took the jews I said nothing, when the Nazis took the Gypsies I said nothingwhen the Nazis took the gays I said nothing when the Nazis took me there was noone left to defend me. My point is this the article discussed in this thread issomething I have never addressed publicly. The reason I have not addressed it isbecause it was part of an extortion plot where people who will remain namelessuntill they are arrested demanded $250,000 from me or they would denigrate myreputation. Be clear law school taught me that was the crime of extortion. Theinteresting thing about the extortionists is that they stand mute on the issue ofdrug dealers in our commuity they stand mute on the issue of sexual predators inour community and they stand mute on the issue of molestation without ourcommuity. The reason for this should be obvious they are cowards who only attackthose who advocate good character because they know those awo who advocategood character adhere to the taboos of our faith. Someone who would attacksomeone who advocates good character and who is restrained from fighting backby oath taboo and protocol needs to be understood for who they are. I make nojudgement because everyone in every moment can transform ibi into ire. I simplysay this as awo we can and we should ignore those who claim to be awo and whoinsist on denigrating our faith by violating all the established rules of conduct thatguide our spiritual growth. May the immortals in hear my prayer and watch theback of all those who stand ready to defend our faith and may those who denigrateour faith feel the wrath of the ancestors going back in time to the first africanwoman who is the mother of us all ire babaJune 19, 2013 at 8:22pm · Like

Charles Spencer King My response to Mr. Wilson, I guess I'll call Birds of aFeather (flock together)

Nazi's extortion plots, racism UNESO it reads like a cheap whodoneit. It is the obawho has sanctioned Ayo Salami, not any whitey, despite Mr. Wilson's attempts tomake it a race issue. Mr. Wilson mentions that UNESO wants to give Ayo Salamiand anyone else ( presumably the author of this tripe) a free reign and licence todefraud other victims under the guise of culture....that is demented.David Sosa may the irunmole protect you. The point is that despite Fategbe'sclaims Falokun has been sanctioned by ode remo I am happy to supply the number. Now to Ayo Salami, obviously he was called to the palace, he was sanctioned,then he in his wisdom posted a lie about the oba, who speaks English very well andwrites it too.. so once again an outright lie, next Salami removed his accusationsfrom his own page ! leaving his minions to spread the lie. In fact the oba shared histelephone in the last order here:OGBO ATO , GOOD YOU HAVE REMOVED YOUR INSULT THAT YOU POSTEDDECEIVING THE CHILDREN OF ONILE ABOUT ME AND MY EXISTENCE, AND MYEDUCATION ( EEWO NI O , ORO YEN KO GBA ENU E ) YOU KNOW THE TRUTH ANDWE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT BOTH WAYS.AS THE OBA OGBONI, I CAN WRITE MY WRITE-UPS OR HAVE MY CABINET DO ITFOR ME. THE DECISION IS STILL FINAL.GIVE ME A CALL RIGHT AWAY OR YOU WILL HAVE ONILE PROBLEM07012869614.OBA ADETOYESHE OLAKISANOLUAYE ABORIGNE OGBONI AGBAYEThe problem with Falokun, Fategbe, Salami and Kool ade is they are still in denial,they think by repeating a lie it will make it the truth, it won't. I readily admit thatthe first three have made contributions to IFA through their books, and I applaudthem for that, however it is not their books that we are speaking to it is fraud, theirclaims they are trained, that they have permissions to led ceremonies and provideclients services and these they do not have....Kool ade I do not know aboutbecause he is a small fish with a big mouth, but the other three have been foundwanting in their credentials.It is amazing how people fail to separate the crime and the criminal. Look at theBoston bombings, the mother claims her sons are innocent and it is a CIA plot,despite the videos, ignoring the evidence. But she'll readily admit any bombershould be punished... just not her sons. The same crimes we are fighting in ourreligion right now. The theft of intellectual property is ignored by one who obtainedit from a thief... If someone steals your car and the thief sells it, the buyer does notget to keep it ! An author sanctioned by the oba and ordered to cease and desistignores the order and his children spread lies about the oba (King) and claim theKing is a fraud... The author is silent because he does not agree with the judgementof the King, and lives in denial. Another author encourages his children to insist anedict by a council is a lie, all elders know it is not, but the lie lives on. Why can'tpeople look at crimes and criminals separately? Just because a criminal committed

a crime does not mean that everything he or she did before the crime or after itwas negative ! Criminals make contributions too, but that does not mean they arenot criminals who get a pass because of their contributions.... That is not howsociety works, how it works is that we must be accountable for our actions. If weplay we pay, break the law, pay the consequences. The priest who fondled youngboys against their will, probably did many good things along with being apedophile... he should not get a pass ! Learn to separate the crime with thecriminal. Writing a substantial book is laudable, it is a contribution, but it is not alicense to steal, or commit a crime.June 19, 2013 at 8:24pm · Like · 2

Charles Spencer King Awo FatègbèIt is a sickness that permeates our faith. It is deep. A wwhile back an awo who isvery well respected in the community and has a very popular group was telling meabout the great raul Canizares, the thief who stole awo falokun's orisa books andreprinted them in spanish. I mentioned that this guy he thinks is so greatplagiarized all his books from falokun. he said, "yea, but he's a great guy." I said,"So in your mind it is okay to steal and plagiarize, you give him a free pass cuzwhy?" he did not respond. So it isn't just tolarated it is encouraged in ourcommunity. Same with the mentally challenged Spencer King, who, spends his timeattacking yoruba traditionalists as some form of santeria marketing strategy,supports the extortionists baba speaks of and people think he's a great guy. I hopethat baba Popoola's challenge results in some form of punishment but moreimportantly, that we as a "conscious community" of "afrocentric spiritualists" willfind the courage and intellect to stop supporting people like Canizares.June 23, 2013 at 7:09pm · Like

Charles Spencer King My response......

Dear whatever your name is (because ode remo has already ruled you are no Awoand omo awo Falokun had no training nor permission to make you)Here's a few facts for you. Raul Canizares stole from omo awo Falokun? Let's talkabout that for a moment. Now the self proclaimed law student and criminalinvestigator Mr. Wilson (omo awo Falokun) did nothing, when he could havepursued a legal remedy? Odd. Now you come here insulting and accusing a deadpriest who can't defend himself? Shame on you. If the white man you claim to bethe paragon of virtue (omo awo Falokun) had an reasonable chance of proving thisoutrageous claim in a court of law, he could still file suit against the publisher.. sodon't sing it against a dead man and his family... bring it ! I enjoy Raul Canizares'swhimsical little books on each Orisha, the artwork is fun, the books colorful andthough are vary basic primers they sell well. Maybe that is why omo awo sent hislap dog (whatever his name is, but claiming to be Awo Fategbe) because he needsmoney. Money has motivated the old omo awo beore certainly. But I'm wonderingwhat you are claiming he stole, it could not be the artwork, nor the vibrant colors,nor the Lucumi stories ! It must be the concept of writing a small book about

individual orishas or the colors that represent them, or their numbers or a verygeneral patakin for each one, or maybe it is an occasional odu that the old omo awofeels he owns?

180 degrees from this frivolous claim is Baba Popoola's assertion that unlike yoursIS the real deal. When and if the young awo who purchased Baba's intellectualmaterial uses said material, I assure you Baba P will be exercising his many legaloptions and enjoying the full weight of the law as it falls on the young Awo's head.The two examples you promote are not even close to being related. Now you bringme in as yet a third example. My books I wrote as a novice awo, and clearly statedso (unlike the old omo awo who claimed to be something he was not and still hasyet to earn). If you want to huff and puff again don't sing it....bring it. You wish toaccuse me of stealing anything for my book from the old omo awo (or anyone else),please, please, please do.

Finally, for the record, I immediately sent Baba P a boatload of information andevidence that spoke to the character of the young Awo who purchased (for apittance) from a thief Baba P's intellectual property. I immediately spoke up severaltimes on Baba P's own page, condemning the actions of the young awo, however Ifailed to see your comments there. Baba P unlike the old omo awo Falokun actuallycredits the Yoruba Baba Awo and compensates them. For the record, ode remo andBaba Lissi asked for my help in heralding the verdict that they made condemningand sanctioning the old omo awo. Furthermore, that evidence is in my threeauthors who are in hot water note for all to see ! I would also be remiss not to pointout the fact that your boy the old omo awo paid a whopping $100.00 over a span of20 plus years to ode remo and broke his agreement to fairly compensate the realBaba Awo who shared their families knowledge ....so who is really the thief, theLucumi priest who is dead Raul Canizares or the old omo awo Falokun whose urineyou sniff? Tell us lap dog....whatever your name is.June 23, 2013 at 7:10pm · Edited · Like · 1

Charles Spencer King Your Royal Highness, I wanted you to know that I havedecided to remove your photograph from the two notes on Facebook I used it on.My intention was to honor you and your position with it, not to misrepresentmyself, The first time I used the photo was when sharing a response from you, sir.The second time was in a note that I shared on your wall about your final ruling onAyo Salami.In the future I will restrain from using the photo because some might think wronglythat I represent you, when as everyone should know I do not. Also to be very clear,you have not ordered or even requested nor mentioned that I remove your photofrom my notes, this is an action I alone have decided is prudent. I wish youcontinued success in your enlightened reign and look forward to being of anyservice I can be to you in exposing and reporting fraud, and abuses found inYorubaland and diaspora . May the irunmole continue to protect you, Orunmilacontinue to guide you, and nature continue to inspire you.

Your humble and obedient supporter,Lucumi Baba Awo ogbesaJune 25, 2013 at 8:26pm · Like

Rw Akile · Friends with Iyalaje Fama and 11 othersThis is why in an interview that I had with Ifa Yemi (now many years ago) I askedwhy do white folks HAVE to be initiated. He said "Ifa is for everybody." Well if it isfor everybody then these EVERYBODIES have shown you what it really means tothem $$$$$$. This goes to Falokun's wife whom I suspect was embarrassed by hisactions and her own guilt that she was duped by this man. It is a sad day that thisis taking place at all.October 24, 2013 at 11:50am · Like

Charles Spencer King Salami is Black, I am white and have noproblems......There are bad people in every color, as any expert or Araba will tellyou, or look to Baba Abimbola's title IFA Will Mend Our Broken World.....its ALL ofthe world not just part of it.October 24, 2013 at 5:42pm · Edited · Like · 1

Milagros Garcia CHARLES, INTERESTING ALL OF THIS IS GOING ON. It hasentertained me today, that I have had a horrible day, and great reading in English,I think in English, so when people write relugious issues, subjects in englush itseasier for me to read and undetstand..October 24, 2013 at 7:36pm · Unlike · 1

Milagros Garcia Awesome reading this charles, its better than a soap opera, all ofu with these issues have managed to entertain my psyché, so I can forget thenegative things that have happened to me lately..ha..ha..October 24, 2013 at 7:55pm · Unlike · 1

Santos Gallegos · Friends with Iyanifa Fagbemiro Fajebe FakayodeYou say it's the clients fault also but as a none initiate their is very little they canresearch so they get mosleadNovember 8, 2013 at 2:26am · Unlike · 1

Charles Spencer King Hi Santos, There are ways to check references, most are ina hurry....Its like buying a used car without having your mechanic look at it first,everyone is going to say they are honest , but some are not. If you explore my

nores more you will find several on how to approach our religion and how to checkpeople out.November 8, 2013 at 3:39am · Like

Raymond Diaz "we all feel sorry for the victims of these three, but much of theblame must go to the buyers. These clients bought without research, or duediligence, they did not do their homework before they bought, and they werescammed.not to dole out its ashe for profit. etc... WAIT? where you talking about areligion?) SO... respectfully i could go on and on about the holes on both sides. butit would be pointless,persay. from the eyes of over 25 years of ifa knowledge, thisall looks like one big "MONEY " problem. money, this the only concern on allsides.... the followers of "the supreme know all master of orisas" Ernesto and willehave" they're going rates" "the nigerians have they're going rates" in each situationreference to "dirty human money" is mentioned far to much. THAT TELLS METHERE IS A MASSIVE PROBLEM. this whole battle over possession by ela, initiationsetc. is all economical fear driven anthropomorphism based puppet master bullshit.the fact the lucumi, will go out of they're ,way to deem there faith "correct and theonly way"reminds me of an arrogant people in the middle east, claiming to bechosen by god hmmm...lol. so how about this? next time an awo charges you $500for a fake "VERY MADE UP" initiation called "the warriors" (THAT ONLY COST ABOUT130 DOLLARS TO MAKE on the way way high side.. lol.) tell him he is an assholedriven by cash not ifa. when i was exposed the lucumi "esu loads, wow was i inshock" some lucumi esu have 4 ingredients in them thats it.. lol. still these peoplewill charge $500, its a dam shame. money, its alllll about money, makes ifa lookvery dark and bad to the outside world. that's one major reason i stand committedto never practicing IFA for money. the patient can buy what they need for ebbo andmake an offering to ifa,etc... as payment for dafa. ifa is the love of god not a wayfor men to make money. men acting like puppet masters over spirits who onlyrespect they're titles...lol its darkness. Ifa is gods gift to the world , it is a nobletruth in my opinion to a. share all ifa knowledge b.teach students of ifa to be "selfindependent" right away. i would never give an esu or something without first,insuring the patient knows how to use the medicine. that's like giving some one atelephone with out teaching them how to dial it. you give an orisa, the personneeds to know how to work with it PERIOD, fully and NOT like a puppet master. itstime for people to wake up and realize "spiritual parental lock down " "keeping ofsecrets""lack of training" is a way to control you and your destiny with god, ANDMAKE CASSSSSSH. the least informed you are, the more dependent you are = themore money you spend... money has no place in spirit. ire o...November 26, 2013 at 6:21pm · Like

Raymond Diaz Kabiyesi Oluaye Ogboni Aborigine, what are you thought as to theinformation discussed in the videos? is this information all "lies"? so awo do not goin to possession? everything discussed is lies????November 26, 2013 at 6:43pm · Like

Raymond Diaz YeyeLawo Olomitutu Sengese Ekitiland, its people like you thathave not grown from initiation. its people like you who give lucumi a bad name...let alone any a.t.r. i hope you can grow up and stop "nailing your voodo lmao toyour CHango pot" wow.... take care miss.November 26, 2013 at 6:45pm · Edited · Like

Raymond Diaz before you all start crying like 2 year olds, remember i am not oneither side.... just a curious man of observation and harsh critic... caio,November 26, 2013 at 6:46pm · Like

Charles Spencer King Welcome to my page Raymond ! A couple of things 1) Ishould have said a share of the blame, rather than "much". My point is I wantpeople to do their homework, before committing. 2) You are correct and I am inagreement "Money is the root of most evil" 3) as for Kabiyesi I think the lies he wasreferring to were Ayo Salami wearing stolen chief's beads in the video.I am not crying... Just reporting the news.November 26, 2013 at 6:59pm · Like · 1

Terry Hubbard I know awo falokun and he has never asked me for money for theadvice or anything else he has done for me. I find this unusual although I cannotspeak for the other two on trial here since I am aware of one of the others thatmaybe suspect to your claims. I would like to know more about you the author ofthis and see where your morals and standards lie. Thank you for your time.March 8 at 12:54pm

Terry Hubbard There is also a baba if you want to call him that you shouldinvestigate as well I would be very interested to know what you find. Located inChicago on Irving Park Road. That would offer you a novel.March 8 at 1:00pm

Charles Spencer King Greetings Terry, just let me correct you (if I may) , I knowit is a long read, however, you made some statements that are inaccurate. 1) " ontrial here " no one is on trial on my Facebook page, there was no "trial". Falokun atthe time was part of and was governed by ode remo who made a ruling a yearbefore this was written. Since then I understand he has changed from ode remo tosomewhere else in greater Yorubaland, therefore I was reporting in the wake of theruling a year later. 2) There are no claims, these are facts and supported by the

elders of ode remo who also commented here. 3) Furthermore I was asked to writeabout this situation by elders in ode remo to help give it due attention 4) You wouldlike to know more about me? In Lucumi we are very open about our credentials andyou can find mine in another note in the note section. Anything else you wish toknow after absorbing my credentials I am happy to answer. 5) Not only are mycredentials available for all to see in that note, but my positions on many aspects ofCuban Lucumi culture, therefore the latter question of satisfying you personally tothe morals and standards I subscribe to is also there. 6) I do not investigate, nordo I judge, yet I do provide commentary in the wake of major decisions in ourculture . 7) my plate is full for the foreseeable future and thus I have no interest inwriting a novel or doing a documentary on this Chicago person. However othersmay investigate ( just not me) The first step would be finding out his supposedlineage and where he acquired his ashe, training, and permissions from. Thatdetermines what jurisdiction he falls under.Finally, you will also notice that I tout some of Awo Falokun;s contributions to theculture, yet that does not excuse the damage he has done by birthing otherswithout, the proper training, permissions or ase. Everyone fully understands thathis minions and he are in denial, yet time and time again his credentials have beenfound wanting or lacking, despite his contributions. Look at it this way: The BernieMaduff contributed huge sums to charity, as did the Chairman of Enron, yet theyboth still were found guilty of fraud. On your return please be so king as to supplyyour credentuals for me to consider,. Have a nice weekend.Cuban Lucumi BabaAwo ogbe osa.March 8 at 1:53pm · Like · 1

Terry Hubbard Hmm well sound political. The chicago claims to be an africanprince. Enjoy your bantor.March 8 at 2:36pm

Charles Spencer King Thanks for your two centsMarch 8 at 4:01pm · Like

Terry Hubbard May oludamare bless you, Orunmilla guide you.March 8 at 4:13pm

Charles Spencer King and the irunmole protect you.....Ẹni tí ó fé kúure, kó hùwà rereMarch 8 at 4:19pm · Like

Z James Proz This sure is some sad business. The reality of any religion is thefaith....the ase...the spirit...and love of the pantheon of the spiritual hierarchy. Ihave seen and heard enough during my path to ocha and subsequent initiation towrite a couple of books and right a couple of wrongs, along the way. I appreciatethe the knowledge and the conversations/posts in regards to all sides of the coin. Ihave read the books of Mr. Neimark and I have read/researched one book by Mr.Wilson( Mérìndínlógún: Òrìsà Divination Using 16 Cowries: Revised and ExtendedEdition (2011) during my Year in White....my question is who can we trust in thisbig circle of mixology? Did anyone question the slaves that brought theirsacredness ingested and traumatized, within their bodies and beaten to submissionby their captors, as to why they synchronized their Mother Africa Ase in a world ofoblivion and death? I think not. It became what it became in various format anddogma as related to life and survival. I find no solace in fraud. I find solace in faith.Knowledge and experiences are put in our lives by our ancestors/Egun. I wish aseand much respect to the allMarch 8 at 7:11pm · Unlike · 1

Charles Spencer King Well there s a bit of difference between Awo Falokun andNeimark,. both are different situations. Let me also make a point before I continueand that is you'll notice I have changed from using Mr. Wison or omo awo toreturning to Awo Falokun. Why, some might ask? The reason is that since AwoFalokun has changed his allegiance from ode remo in Yorubaland to another area, Iam assuming, he has been elevated from omo awo to a full Awo, however this is anassumption, and a courtesy. Many (particularly those in Awo Falokun's camp) wishto "shoot the messenger" ( in this case me) when in fact I am reporting in the wakeof a judgement someone else (the elders of ode remo) made. It is fair to say AwoFalokun and I have had our differences and even spats over things like his note ongossip, or his what I see as singing iwa pele and then preforming ceremonieswithout the requisite training and permissions, and others. However, I have alsotouted the fact he has made contributions to our culture ( largely through hiswritings) even if I do not agree with 100% of what he writes. He is a talented andcertainly knowledgeable writer, and I am willing to admit that readily. Does thatexcuse the wrongs I write about in this note, nope not in my book. To say that theAwo is a sociopath or 100% bad would be unfair and incorrect. He continues tomake contributions through his writings, and as Mr. Hubbard suggests help some,and should be credited for that. I hope that he is sharing his new ase with thosewho ode remo has clearly stated ceremonies were null and void and have no value.There are many, many people involved over the course of Awo Falokun's tenurethat he birthed that need to be addressed. It will not be me that judges AwoFalokun, it will be Olorun, when Esu and Iku take his ori to decide where his orimoves on to.

James, because Awo Falokun, is part of the Yorubaland tradition, there is ahierarchy in place that makes judgments and though it is not perfect, it is moreadvanced judicially than anythng we have in Cuban Lucumi. Our Lucumi is morefragmented and favors self regulation, and this in itself is an invitation for

manipulations, fraud and abuses. Under education runs rampant in the Lucumienvironment, and Neimark has exploited this like no other in our long and storiedhistory. Neimark is a incurable epidemic in my opinion, where Awo Falokun'stransgressions are a curable disease would be the comparison I would make. Youask what the solution is, the only defense we have is communication andtransparency to combat Lucumi abuse, and to a lesser extent abuses in the(greater) Yorubaland .traditions. Those new often buy " a pig in a poke" in bothYourubaland and our Lucumi tradition. Hence, buyers need to beware, and do theirhomework and due diligence before committing their hopes, time and money inANY religion, just as they would if they were buying a used car. They not only needa Carfax report, but to take the auto to a reputable and trusted mechanic for his orher hard appraisal. There is a certain amount of responsibility any buyer of anyservice or product has, and this often goes unmentioned. Through communication,search engines and references a determination becomes easier. Is anyone going toread and absorb this long post and more 100 responses ( many that are germane)regarding these three men? Perhaps not, yet it is here for all to read and decide forthemselves. Knowledge is not always wisdom. Have a nice weekend.

PS Mr.Hubbard, I have asked you for your credentials and you have not sharedthem, I will block and delete any further commentary until you supply them eitherpublicly here, or in a private note to me. I have a responsibility to those new whoSantero James is speaking about thirsting for information, and I will not permit youto hijack or attempt to manipulate this conversation or the credentials I haveearned. You may not like this fact, but this s my page and I moderate it as I see fit..March 9 at 12:20am · Edited · Like · 1

Z James Proz Thank you, Charles.March 9 at 7:35am · Unlike · 1

Afonja Obafemi · 39 mutual friendsCharles Spencer king, my name is Babalawo Afonja Obafemi, my coming was toldtwenty years ago. I have been asking IFA for wisdom , patience and guidance,because I knew I had a mission, Today I have a clear understanding of my mission.IFA directed me to your page through IFA divination. Shango is my head Orisha.Ogun house. IFA gave me a rooster to follow it. My ancestpApril 14 at 1:24pm · Like

Afonja Obafemi · 39 mutual friendsIt brought me to Chicago. After reading your article I know why I am here. InOtua/OSA "He is advised not to relegate the priesthood order of Babalawo".Ajagunmole had three children two were initiated into IFA , but Awodi is in thehouse of Olokun practicing his IFA. Awodi has not been introduced into IFA cult, he

was an ordinary Ikaro who started practicing. He did not wait to enter into thesacred forest of IFA before practicing. He was never consecrated into IFA.April 14 at 1:40pm · Like

Afonja Obafemi · 39 mutual friendsIn unison they busted into Ijasi song. He did not wait to enter the sacred forest ofIFA before practicing he is in the sacred forest practicing initiating people into theCult of IFA. The superior priest sent for Awodi, but he despised of his brothersthroughout ASE, the third brother was sent, but he went to consult the priestbefore going on this errand. Odiderehis coolness to deliver the message, Awodi bythe petting arrived home with OdidereApril 14 at 1:55pm · Like

Afonja Obafemi · 39 mutual friendsThe Apankolos, Babalawos are better rated than the other. Orunmila entered thehouse. Orunmila pointed his ASE at Awodi he swallowed Awodi completely, I wascalled to this mission since birth. I was told at birth when my grandmother amidwife lifted me up to the sky and said. "This child is born under the royal seal. MyOri was a crowned Ori. I did not come seeking help because of Poverty. I wasdriving a Bentley paid for, making the streets work for me. Successful pimp andhustler. I was called to this. Ninety days after initiation i was divining in mydreams. IFA needed me ready for this. I was told by strangers on the streets thereis a special something about you, strangers coming up to me saying that, I know Ihave the blessings of Olodumare to do his work. These fraudulent Babalawos haveto stop using this religion and way of life for personal gain, when we have youngpeople dying all over the country. They are collecting envelop of money for personalgain. When we need moneynto build Yoruba institutes in chicag, to teach ourchildren, families and communities how ton live a life of no malice and to be ofgood character, obviously what these individuals are not aware of. I divineeveryday I am in total contact with IFA, ancestors and deities. This is a way of lifefor me I have no doubt In my mind. I am calling out all those fraud andmanipulator of the truth. Some may said I sound crazy. But I am sure what I needto do. I cast I was told this was coming and to be ready. I have spoken to theMuslims also, IFA speaks about those non believers, but that IFA is God and theywill praise him again. This is a mighty war, and time to give to humanity, all thepeople. My first cousin is the only practicing Babalawo in Chicago. He came for me Iwent kicking and screaming, but Olodumare is a great God, he says: IFA is God.The did not just hurt Yoruba but humanity as a whole. They are what IFA callsincredulous . Non believers making money. They will be dealt with because. IFAsays, the righteous and the evildoers will be rewarded. AseApril 14 at 2:23pm · Like

Charles Spencer King Iku and Esu will lead their collective ori to Olorun and hewill judge them, not me. My objectve is public awareness. Blessings.April 14 at 8:18pm · Like · 2

Afonja Obafemi · 39 mutual friendsASE.April 15 at 9:45am · Like

Hnlareeapo Fa Yemi Opatola lol later way later....da...faSeptember 12 at 10:45pm · Like

Manslaughter Accusation by detractors of Lucumi Baba Awo, ogbe sa Charles Spencer King proven...

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