CONG-RESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. - GovInfo.gov

2612 CONG-RESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 3,

CONFIRMATIONS. Executive nominations confirmed by the Senate Febntarv_ 3, 1919.

POSTMASTERS, MINNESOTA.

Clarence D. Maxey, Backus. Milton P. Mann, Worthington.

NORTH CAROLINA, Sarab. A: Lunceford, Smithfield.

PENNSYLVANIA. James A. Cooper, Brockwayville. Blair Rorabaugh, Clymer. William D. First, Conneaut Lake. Thomas F. McHale, Olyphant.

UTAH. Charlotte H. Nelson, Castlegate. Thomas Brimley, Farmington. Clyde Panter, Magna.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

MoNDAY, February 3, 1919.

The House met at 11 o'clock a.m. The Cha.plain, Rev. Henry N. Couden, D. D., offered the fol

lowing prayer : Oh Thou, who art from everlasting to everlasting, the same

yesterday, to-day, and foreTer, help us to subject ourselves to Thy will, since Thy laws are inexorable. It is writ: Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

For he that soweth to his fiesh, shall of the flesh reap corruption; but. he that soweth to the Spirit, shall of the Spirit reap life _everlasting.

1\lay we sow good seeds, that our harvest may be abundant in the Spirit. For Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. ·

The Journals of the proceedings of Saturday, February 1, and Sunday, February 2, were read and approved.

THE IMMIGRATION BILL. 1\Ir. BURNETT. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that

my colleagues, Mr. KNUTSON and Mr. PowEBs, of the Committee on Immigration, be allowed to file minority views during to-day on the bill H. R. 15302 in the nature of a dissent from the fouryear proposition.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Alabama asks unanimous consent that his colleagues, Mr. KNUTSON and Mr. PowEBs, be allowed to file minority views during the day on the bill H. n. 15302, the immigration bill. Is there objection?

There was no objection. SENATE DILL REFERRED.

Umler clause 2 of Rule XXIV, Senate bill of the following ti tie was taken from the Speaker's table and referred to its appropriate committee, as indicated below:

S. 5279. An act to authorize the resumption of voluntary enlistment in the Regular Army, and for other purposes; to the Committee on Military Affairs.

MESSAGE FROM THE SEN ATE. A message from the Senate, by Mr. 'Valdorf, its enrolling

clerk, announced that the Senate had passed the following resolutions:

Resol·ved, That the Senate assembles as a mark of respect to the memory of Hon. OLLlE M. JAMES, late a Senator from the State of Kentucky, in pursuance of an order heretofore made, to enable hls associates to pay proper tribute to his high character and distinguished public services.

Resolved, That the Senate again expresses its profound sorrow at the death of the late Senator from Kentucky.

Resolved, That the Secretary transmit a copy of these resolutions to the House of Representatives and to the family of the deceased.

Resolved, That as a further mark of respect to the memory of the deceased the Senate do now adjourn.

Also: Resoh:ed, That the Senate as. eJ,Ublet: as a mark of respect to the memory

of Hon. WILLIAM JOEL STONE, late a Senator from the State of Missouri, fn pursuance of an order heretofore made, to enable his associates to pay proper tribute to his high character and distinguished public services.

Resolved, That the Senate again expresses its profound sorrow at the death of the late Senator from Missouri.

Resolved, That the Secretary transmit a copy of these resolutions to the House of Representatives and to the family of the deceased.

Resolved, That as a further mark of respect to the memory of the deceased the Senate do now adjourn.

ENROLLED BILL SIGNED,

Mr. LAZARO, from the Committee on Enrolled Bills, reporte4 that they had examined and found truly enrolled bill of the following title, when the Speaker signed the same:

H. R. 8828. An act increasing the limit of cost for the acquisition of a public-building site at Yonkers, N.Y.

EDITORIAL IN WASHINGTON POST, Mr. SIEGEL. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that

an editorial which appeared in the Washington Post this morning be read by .the Clerk.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York asks to have read an editorial in this morning's Post. Is there objection?

Mr. FOSTER and Mr. WALSH objected. Mr. SIEGEL. :!: ·make the point of order that no quorum is

present. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York makes the

point that no quorum is present, and the Chair will count. Mr. SIEGEL. Mr. Speaker, at the request of a number of

gentlemen on both sides of the House, I withdraw the point. The SPEAKER. That is what the Chair was waiting for.

[Laughter.] MILITARY ACADEMY BILL.

Mr. DENT. Mr. Speaker, I move that the House resolve itself into Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union for the further consideration of the bill H. n. 15462, the Military Academy bill.

The motion was agreed to. The SPEAKER. The Chair will remind the House that two

hours is set aside to-day for the consideration of the Military Academy bill.

Mr. GARNER. From this moment? Mr. MANN. No; from the meeting of the House. JUr. GARNER. From the time that we go into Committee ot

the Whole. · The SPEAKER. The Chairman of the Committee of the

Whole can decide that. [Laughter.] Accordingly the House resolved itself into Committee of the

Whole House on the state of the Union, with Mr. SABATH in the chair. ·

The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows: Fifteen enlisted musicians, at $51 each per month, $9,180. Mr. SIEGEL. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last

word. I ask that the Clerk read an important editotial in this morning's Washington Post in my time.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows:

EXPLANATIONS IN ORDER.

There are a lot of things that happened in this war which remain to be explained. Perhaps we shall have to wait until the peace tt·eaty ts signed and the whole business closell up formally, but eventually they will have to be e::mlained. The public will insistently demand an explanation, and the returning soldiers ~ill see to it that this demand is complied with. •

Is it true that Gen. Enoch H. Crowder, Provost Marshal General, who worked out the selective-service plan and successfully executed it, was reprimanded by Gen. March, Chlef of Stafi', for giving his views to a congressional committee? It has been so reported, and the rt'port even goes so far as to aver that the reprimand has been written into Gen. Crowder's Army record. Nothing official has been announced about it. snd Gen. Crowder, being a true soldier, has kept his lips sealed. The people would like to know the truth about it.

Why was Gen. W. L. Sibert, who commanded the first contingent of the American Army sent abroad, relieved of his command and sent home before our forces became involved in the fighting? Gen. Sibert was picked to lead the advance guard ot' the Yanks. lle put them through their training period ln France, and there wa every reason to expect that he would command the first Amel'ican Army of the expeditionary forces, with the rank of lieutenant general. Suddenly it was learned that he was on his way back, and upon reaching the United States he was given charge of the Chemical Warfare Service, a highly important assignment, but far from the ultimate goal or a soldier's ambition. Sibert, being ~ true soldier, has kept silent, but the public would like to know why he was sent back.

Maj. Gen. Clarence R. Edwards went to France in command of the Twenty-sixth Division, composed of the New England National Guard. He led his troops through the hard fightin~ along the M~usa, where they sustained heavy losses, but made a splendid record, whtch added luster to the fame of the American forces. Suddenly, and without appar!'nt reason, Gen. Edward'! was relteved of b~s command and sent lJa"i;: _ to the United States. No r eason bas been given, and Gen. Edwards, h l 'l ng a true soldier has said nothing. The people are curious to know why. it ba"l been· charged upon the flcor of the Senate that replacemeuts in

the Twenty-eighth Division, composed of the Pennsylvania Nat iona l Guard were made from men wlto had had no training, many of them never 'even having f1red a rifle. Thls division sustained heavy los es in the Argonne fight, the untratned soldiers being mowed down l.Jy the hundreds. Returning officers of the division corr<>borate the ch:n;;e. Is it true? And if so, who was to blame for it?

Responsible officers assert that the Thirty-fifth Division, composed or the National Guard of Missouri and Kansas, after six days of continuous, grueling fighting in the Argonne Forest, tottered back to the rPst billets, completely exhausted, to be met by an inspection officer, who

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-. ROUSE. '2613 stepped out of a limousine and cast his ·professional eye over the dlvi· sion which had just emerged from an inferno. This officer's report is on ihe in the archives of the American Army, it is said. It criticizes the Thirty-fifth Division unmercifully for its dirty uniforms and lax discipline, complaining there was too much familiarity betwoon officers and men. Imagine a command being submitted to inspection und~r such circumstances ! The public would like to know the details of this incident. ·

These are a few matters, selected at random, which require explanation. There are many others, possibly the great majority, susceptible of explanation, but all containing mysterious features, which the people will insist upon having made plain. Army officials are clothed with great power and a wide range of authority during war, but in the end

· .. they must give an accounting to the people for its use, just as financial officers must render a stewardship of funds intrusted to them. They must stand ready at the proper time to justify their official acts, for that .time is certain to come. .

Mr. SIEGEL. Mr. Chairman, I have a resolution which I am introducing to-day calling for the appointment of a select committee of eight to be appointed by the Speaker to investi· gate all the charges made on the floor of this House regarding eonditiooo in the Army at home and abroad. I ask unanimous .consent 1o extend my remarks on the question.

The CHAffil\1AN. The gentleman from New York asks unanimous con.sent to extend his remarks in the RECORD. Is :there objection? . There was no objection. I Mr. SIEGEL. The resolution which I have introduced reads as follows : ·

House resolution 545. l\Vhereas it has been announced in the press that no record of at least

10,000 men who went abroad with the Army of the United States

I can now be found, and that their names do not app.ear either in the casualty lists or otherwise accounted for, although the armistice was signed nearly tbree months a~o ; and

,Whereas serious charges a.ffecting the Military Establishment of the United States and the integrity and honor of a number of its high

I oftlcers have been made on the tl.oor of this House during the past two weeks, and statements have appeared in the public press affecting the standing of a general who helped to make the draft a success ; and

,Whereas numerous complaints have been made of the manner in whlch

I mail is now being delivered to men in the military service abroad, and there bas beeB a constant flow Of criticisms and complaints about the manner in which allotments made by soldiers are being paid to . their relatives and the same kind of complaint of the manner in which salaries are being paid to soldiers ; and

l\Vbereas a large number of complaints of the manner in which discharges from the Army are now being effected with the constant I refusal of superior omcers to obey the orders issued · by the War Da. partment have been disclosed on the floor of this House· and

;whereas the said statements and alleged conditions seriously affect the morale of the United States Army: Now, therefore, be it Resolved, That the Speaker appoint a select committee of eight Mem·

hers of the House, who have been elected to the Sixty-six:th Congress. to · be evenly divided between both leading political parties, and that said ~ommittee be instructed to inquire into all the charges which have heretofore been made upon the tl.oor of this House affecting the United States Army, whether at home or abroad; of complaints regarding th-e reporting of casualties amongst our troops ; the delivery of mail abroad ; the manner and methods adopted for demobilization of the Army of the United States; the manner and methods of which payments of allotments and salaries have been made; and all complaints re~arding treatment being accorded to our troops on transports and hospitals, and for such purposes it shall have power to send for persons and papers and force their appearance before said committee, and to administer oaths nnd shall have the right to make a report at any time.

Under the rules of the House it must go to the Rules Committee. The statementS made on the floor of this House by the gentleman from l\Iassachusetts, Mr. GALLIVAN, by the gentle. man from Conriecticut, Col. TILsoN, by the gentlemen from illinois, M-essrs. MANN, GRAHAM, and DENISON, and numerous other Members of the House, regardless of party affiliations, make it the paramount duty of the House of Representatives to stop talldng and take some action, as in the end the American people will be the final judges of what should have ·been done by their Representatives at a time when such serious allegations have disturbed the homes of th<msands and brought untold suffer. ings in the minds of many thousands more. It is a call to duty that· can not be evaded.

The CleTk read as follows : For pay of one sergeant, senior grade, $900 : Provided, That the en

listed man on duty in the office· of the disbursing offi.cer1 United States Military Academy, performing the. duty of sergeant, seruor grade, shall have the rank, pay, and allowances and retirement of that grade, as is now or may hereafter be allowed quartermaster sergeants, senior grade, .Q-uartermaster Corps, United States Army.

Mr. WALSH. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order on · the paragraph just read, and I would like to ask what is the occasion of having to provide this legislation 1 i Mr. DENT. The-gentleman means to provide homes? j Mr. WALSH. Yes.

Mr. DENT. The explanation is gh·en on page 25 of the bearings:

· This is for the purpose of placiD~ the enlisted man on duty in the office of the disbursing omcer, Umted States Military Academy, on the ~nme basis us quartermaster sergeant, senior grade, Quartermaster Corps of the Army. Items along similar lines have bee.B approved by Congress for enlisted men on duty in the office of the commandant of cadet'i &nd at headquarters, United States Military Academy. The en-

listed man performing the duties of sei-geant, senior grade, in the office of the disbursing officer, United States Military Academy, should be permanently attached to the Military Academy, and it is urgently, recommended that this item be approved.

This man, besides dotlig the ordinary work of a quartermaster ser· geant, senior grade, is now doing the additional work of a first sergeant of the Quartermaster Corps anu the first sergeant of the Motor Trans· port Corps, and he is in a very responsible position as assistant to the chief clerk of the office, and he is now, during the absence of the chief clerk on account of sickness, acting aa chief clerk. It is very necessary that he should be a permanent employee of the Military Academy to that ex:tent, and this increase Is very little over what he draws as a sergc&.nt, firs:t class, of the Quartermaster Corps.

Mr. WALSH. That is the explanation given the committee'? Mr. DENT. That is the explanation given to the committee. Mr. WALSH. That Congress has heretofore provided for simi-

lar items and therefore should provide for this one? Mr. KAHN. Will my colleague yield? Mr. DENT. Yes. Mr. KAHN. It seems that this man is doing the ordinary, ·

work of a quartermaster sergeant of the senior grade and also additional work of a sergeant, QuartermaSter Corps. He is doing the work of two men, and for that reason the superintendent of the academy suggests that he be given this extra allowance.

Mr. DENT. In addition to that he is assisting the chief clerk of the academy.

Mr. WALSH. What is the extra allowance? Mr. DEN'l'. The total amount would be $900. Mr. WALSH. What about the retirement? T.bat 'Is a new

feature. What additional privileges are conferred by the re· tirement privileges of that grade?

Mr. DENT. It would raise his pay to $75, and he would get the retirement pay of a quartermaster sergeant.

Mr. WALSH. This man is detailed permanently to the Mili· tary Academy at West Point?

Mr. DENT. Yes. Mr. WALSH. And he has been there during the past. two

years? Mr. DENT. I do not r~ember how long he has been there. Mr. WALSH. Mr. Chairman, I make the point of order upon

that proviso. The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman from Alabama wish

to be heard on the point of order? Mr. DENT. Mr. Chairman, the point of order is made against

the proviso, and I am inclined to think that it is subject to the point of order. ·

The CHAIRMAN. The point of order is sustained. The Clerk read as follows : Pay of civilians : For pay of one teacher of music. $2,000.

1\Ir. STAFFORD. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the point of· order on the item just r.ead. I wish to inquire whether the-committee in recommending the increases of salary to these instructors took into consideration the flat increase that is going to be voted to all persons in the Government service?

l\Ir. DENT. The committee did take that into consideration and declined to give increases asked for at the academy upon that account. They asked for many increases of all these civilians, and the committee refused to grant them, on th~ ground of the general provision of the Appropriations Commit· tee in the legislative bill, believing that that would take care of them.

Mr. STAFFORD. Here we have an increase of $300 in the compensation of this teacher of music. If this is grante.d, this employee will receive $540 increase for his services in a single year, or $420 when you consider that he received $120 this past year.

Mr. DENT. He would not be taken eare of under that general proVIsion. That was the explanation they make of that.

Mr. GREENE of Vermont. He is not a civil-service employee; he does not come under that general provision for.increases.

1\.Ir. STAFFORD. Is the gentleman certain tha.t that provi· sion does not extend to civilian employees carried in this bill? I hardly think the limitation upon the legislative bill excludes the civilian employees at the Military Academy. I will read the only exceptions which arB noted in the law:

Th-e provisions of this S"eetion shall not apply to the following : Em· ployees paid from the postal revenues and sums which may be .advanced from the -Treasury to meet deficiencies in tbe postal r~venues; employees of the Panama Canal on the Canal Zone; employees of tbe Alaskan- En· gineering Commission in Alaska ; employees paid from lump-sum appropriations in bureaus, divisions, commissions, or any other governmental agencies or employments created by law since January 1, 1916; em· ployees whose duties require only a portion of their time, except charwomen, who shall be included ; employees whose services are utilized for brief periods at intervals; persons employed by or through corporations, firms, or individuals acting for or on behalf of or as agents of the United States or any department or independent establishment of the· Government of the United States in connection with construction work or the operation of plants; employees who receive a part of their pay from any outside sources under cooperative arrangements with th~

2614 CONGR~SSiONAL REGORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 3,

Government of the United States or the District of Columbia; employees who serve voluntarily or receive only a nominal compensation, and employees who may be provided with special allowances because of their service in foreign countries. The provisions of this section shall not apply to employees of the railroads taken over by the United States, and nothing contained herein shall be deemed a recognition of the employees of such railroads a.s employees of the United States.

Mr. GREENE of Vermont. Does that act start off, in the first plB:ce, by limiting the ones to receive that ·increase to those who are employed under the civil service?

Mr. STAFFORD. No. It starts ·out in this way: That all ciTilian employees of the Government of the United States

and the District of Columbia, wl!o receiTe a total of compensation at the rate of $2,500 per annum or less, except as otherwise provided in this section, shall receive--

And so forth. Those who are provided for otherwise are those that I haYe

.read in the paragraph following the first paragraph of the pro-Tision. · · · Mr. GREENE of Vermont. I know the generaf understanding or information upon which we proceeded seems to have been that he was not included among those who would get that increase.

Mr. STAFFORD. The gentleman from Connecticut [Mr. Trr..soN] suggests that this increase applies only to employees in the District. I wish to correct him in that, because it applies to every person in the Government service except those I have named. ·

Mr. McKENZIE. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Mr. STAFFORD. Yes. -Mr. McKENZIE. I am of the opinion that these employees

get the benefit of the increases whether they are civil-service e:mployees or not, and for the information of the gentleman from Wisconsin and the other members of the committee I wish to read a few sentences from the hea.rin~s on page 35.

On page 35, in discussing certain civil employees, Col. Timberlake said: ' Col. TIMBERLAKE. They liTe at Highland Falls, and some of them liTe at Newbur:h, or whereTer they can rent a house in the vicinity of West PoiD.t- Those m~n w~o liTe at Hi~hland Falls and at ·Newburgh, besides paymg their r~gular living expenses, haTe to pay also railroad commutation. -

Mr. GonnoN. Does the increase of $120 a :rear, which was given to GoTernment employee• last year, apply· to thelile empleyees? - CoL TIMBERL.llrll._ Yes, ,$ir; that ·has .applied to them, and 11' that rn~~~~:e~~i:;Je;oe: i~ 4~;nfte~. be permanent they would not need the

On that theory we cut out all increases. The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman· has expired. Mr. STAFFORD. I ask unanimous consent that I may pro-

ceed for five minutes. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the

gentleman from Wisconsin? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none.

Mr. DENT. May I ask the gentleman from 'Visconsin where .he gets the impression, that this is an increase?

M1:. STAFFORD. I was under the impression that this teacher o! music received $1,700 last year.

Mr. DENT. No; I think the gentleman is mistaken. This is the same amount, apparently, from the way it is printed in the bill, that we have been can-ying from year to year.

Mr. STAFFORD. If I am in error--. 1\fr. M~. One thousand seven hundred dollars was the amount carried in the current law. . Mr. STAFFORD. The gentleman from Illinois says that is the amount carried in the current law. Has the gentleman from Alabama the current law before him, so as to confirm my imp_ression?

1\fr. DENT. I thought I had it here. , 1\fr. STAFFORD. The gentleman from Illinois confirms my notation that it is $1,700.

Mr. TILSON. It is evident there ·is a mistake in the committee print of the bill, in which all changes were supposed to be printed in italics. In this case it does not seem to be printed in italics. . Mr. MANN. The current law provides for an appropriation of $1,700, with a proviso, and among other things in the proviso is that the teacher of music shall receive the pay and l1ave the rank of u first lieutenant not mounted, and the appropriation is $1,700 with this proviso. How they get the money I do not pretend to say, but that is the language of the law.

1\Ir. KAHN. A first lieutenant's pay is $2,000. Mr. STAFFORD. I am not desirous of reducing the pay of

any employee of the Government--Mr. DENT. Somebody has misplaced the copy of my bill here,

and I haye sent for another--Mr. STAFFORD. 1\fr. Chairman, as the individual is now

recehing $2,000 and $120, as I take it he will under this provision receiYe . '2,COQ ~nd the $240.

Mr. MANN. I suppose, if he gets the pay and rank of a first lieutenant, that would ~xclude him from the $240, but I do not know.

Mr. STAFFORD. If that provision is carried in the existing bill, he was excluded from the $120 allowance last year.

Mr. MANN. Whether that is supposed to be permanent law or not I do not know;

. Mr. STAFFORD. He would not be then a civilian employee. Mr. KAHN. If it is permanent law. .Mr. STAFFORD. Why not make the salary $1,800, and be

will have the $240 additional? Mr. DENT. Mr. Chairman, I move to make it $1,800. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the amendment. The -Clerk read as _follows: · Pa&'e 11, line 12, strike out " $2,000 " ·and insert in lieu thereof

.. $1,800." . .

The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. Mr. JOHNSON of Washington. Mr. Chairman, I move to

strike out the last word. The iliscussion indic.ates some· ·confusion ·because the committee print of this appropriation bill bas failed to carry a certain paragraph in italics. Not having the committee print, I can hardly follow it. I have asked two members of the committee what the . item was, and they coultl not indicate. · - · · :

Mr. KAHN. It is page 11, line 12. 1\lr. MANN. All I have is the ordinary print, I will say to

the gentleman. · ' ?tl.r. JO~SON of Washington. Oh, the gentleman from

Illinois is following the bill line by line, of course, as he always does. · But I am not concerned as to the particular item but rather in regard to the building program at West Point. Consideration of the bill will run along in the regular way, with reservations o! points of order here and there, and will pass, it being a little appropriation bill- of only two million and some odd thousands of dollars, including $890,000, or thereabouts, !or enlarging the builclings at West Point to take care o! the enlarged classes. As appropriations go nowadays, that does not seem to be a Yery large sum ; yet it is one item in the lot which are running to staggering totals. Can not the brakes be put on somewhere? ,

I had hoped that the Committee on Military Affairs would see that . if its extension was necessary because o! enlarged classes at 'Vest Point Military Academy the work could be authorized at one of the recently built military posts. For instance, at Camp Humphreys, just below the city of Washington, great sums haYe been expended to hard surface roads, put in permanent waterworks, sewerage, a splendid hospital, good barracks, good offices and quarters, might very well be utilized for some years. In fact, I haYe been informed that some of the West Point classes are now there, and I had hoped that they would continue that until the situation at West Point i.s normal again.

Mr. ANTHONY. Is not the gentleman mistaken about the permanent nature of the barracks down there?

l\1r_ JOHNSON of Washington. Oh, I should say they were permanent enough. There are some that would only last a few years, but might last 10 years if they were reroofed.

Mr. ANTHONY. If we had asked the department for an estimate of cost of construction for suitable buildings to house another West Point there, they would probably estimate about another $10,000,000. Would the gentleman be in favor of it?

Mr. JOHNSON of Washington. No, indeed; I would not. Neither am I in favor of providing such elaborate accommodations for those who are training Army officers, the enlarged West Point classes, while we have this equipment, which will last a good many years. _

1\fr. GREENE of Vermont. One of the tests of experience. shows that to have a school of any kind you should try to have it under one roof, even if you have only one good teacher. What is the idea of scattering this thing from one side of the continent to the other?

Mr. JOHNSON of Washington. If we could afford the -appropriation, I think is would be a fine thing in a country as wide as the United States to have a West Point on the Pacific coast.

Mr. GREENE of Vermont. Then what will be the national standard for either West Point?

Mr. JOHNSON of Washington. It will be greatly improved and greatly ahead of the present standard, in my opinion.

Mr. GREENE of Vermont. Which one? Mr. JOHNSON of Washington. I do not care to carry on

an argument. For a western West Point all that I have said concerning Camp Humphreys, Va., could be said for · Camp Lewis, at Tacoma. Either place could be u ed for training the

.1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. ~2615

excess of ·west Point classes. But West Point wants improvement as a result of the war. It demands and is being given nearly a million. Who can count the milli~ns it is proposed for the Government to spend? It is a hundred million here and a hundred million there-yes ; ten million here and five million there. The Mississippi waterways ask for $4,000,000, and every proposal everywhere calls for money in proportion. Grant onethousandth part of the demands and Congress will have to pass a tax measure every $ir months and authorize bond issues monthly. I withdraw the pro forma amendment.

Tile Clerk read as follows: For pay .of two exJ?ert assistant civilian instructors in military gym

nastics, fencin.~, boxmg, wrestling, and swimming, $4,000 : Provided, that these ciVuian Instructors employed in the department of modern languages and the department of tactics shall be entitled to public quarters and to the same allowances with respect to fuel and light as those of a first lieutenant when occupying public quarters.

1\Ir. GREEN of Iowa. l\1r. Chairman, I move to strike out the last word. · \V·hen I first examined this item I thought that the salary of $-!,000 was pretty .large, to say the least, and wondered what th~se experts in wrestling did to earn the money. But on reflection I have concluded there was one way in which they might earn it. If they would take up the matter of trying to find out the whereabouts of some of our wounded soldiers and wrestle '\lith the War Department in the way every Member of Congress is compelled to do I am satisfied they could earn twice the amount called for here. So tar as the fencing part of it. is

- concerned, which is also spoken of in this paragraph, they would not be able to teach the War Department anything, I am sure, because they are adepts at warding off any question that is propounded to them. .And when it comes to. "passing the buck " whatever that phrase may mean; I am not sufflciently acquainted with the technique of the game to understand-the War Department is certainly an adept, because they turn the matter over, . as has been suggested heretofore, to the Red Cross, and the Red Cross is not permitted to give Congressmen any information. After much delay we find out indirectly that the Red Cross llas no information, so we have got nowhere. This matter with · reference to finding out something about the wounded has passed the stage of protest. It ought to reach that of action. It is something that can not be explaioed or excused-that the War Department, with several cables at its command, can not find out anything with reference to these wounded men. Apparently, so far as the wounded men are concerned, they might just as well have been dropped off the face of the earth so far as the department is able to tell where they are, get any mail to them, or ascertain about -their condition. :\Ve can not find out anything. They tell us, when they cable in extreme cases, that it will be 10 days before· we can get an .answer. \Ve can find out all about the decorations of some woman's dress at the functions that have been going on over ·tllere in Europe on the very next day, but we can not find out anything about these wounded men for 10 days at most, even if '\\e find out anything at all. And in nine hundred and ninety· nine cases out of a thousand we do not find out anything at all.

1\lr. GREENE of Vermont. The Government has control of these cables, has it not?

Mr. GREEN of Iowa. Yes. l\1r. GREENE of Vermont. It is apparent, then, that in the

demonstration of Government control it is giving preference to reports of these d.iamond decorations at fancy receptions, and one thing and another, over the lists of wounded? Is that the conclusion? . Mr. GREEN of Iowa. I do not see how we can come to any other conclusion, the Government being in full control of these cables. What else is to be concluded? They give the color of the roses in the hair of some lady, full description of her dress, and with whom she rode. We get all such news the next day; but wllen it comes to anything in reference to these wounded men, when do you get it? I have had inquiries in there for a month and have not received a single scrap of. information as to where these wounded men are and what condition they are in, while their anxious parents are fairly burning their hearts out by not knowing whether their boys ue dead or alive.

I say tl1at we ought not longer to put up with this condition. The War Department ought to be called upon, by a resolution or otherwise, to get busy with reference to these matters and use the power and control it has over these cables to let us know something about where these boys are. They are either dead or alive, on this side of the water or on the other . . There is some place in which they might be located if there was any system or any sense in the manner in which · they are conducting this matter.

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman has expired.

The Clerk read as follows: For pay or one assistant chief engineer of same, $1,100. Mr. LITLLE. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last

word. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Kansas mo\cs to

strike out the last word. Mr. LITTLE. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the House, I

have discovered some practical use for the CoNGRESSIONAL RECORD, which is so often discredited as useless by -rival sheets. On the 29th of January I read to the House some excerpts from the Official Bulletin issued. by the Great Lakes Training Station of Illinois, and called the attention of the House to an order issued by a Capt. Scales and a Lieut. Commander Roberts, which stated that if any Congressman interfered in a man's behalf he. would be involved in great trouble. I also called attention to an editorial in the Official Bulletin, which is published under the official supervision or those officers, stating that a great many of the young men at the Great Lakes station are a pack of scoundrels, liars, quitters, and falsifiers; that they had such a number of alleged sick grandmothers that the Persian pox must be sweeping the :Middle West. I spoke of tllat in what I hoped would be in a helpful way. Referring to those officers in the gentlest manner possible, my urbane and tremuJous remarks were published in the CoNGRESSIONAL RECORD January 29. I ask unanimous consent now that the Clerk read a dispatch which I find in the Kansas City Times of February 1.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the Clerk will read. The Clerk read as follows :

GREAT LAKE!, ILL., January 31. An official order will be published in the next Monday'e Great Lakes

Bulletin allowing nil men under training at the station to be released or dJschar~ed, according to a statement issued by Lieut. Commander Chester S. Roberts. . ·

Mr. LITTLE. Now, gentlemen of the House, tile criticisms of the lack Of utility of the CoNGRESSIONAL RECORD, I think; are forever disposed of; The RECORD has not lived in vain, accord· ing to this statement in the Kansas City Times from one of the officers at the Great Lakes, to whose order and bulletin edi· torial I took such decided exception on this floor January 29, when I demanded their court-martial. They say that the boys in training there are to be discharged and released without further delay. [Applause.] I am reminded or the classical religious couplet :

Sound the loud timbrel o'er Egypt's dark sea; Jehovah has triumphed, our people are free.

l\1r. GREEN of Iowa. Mr. Chairman, in connection with the gentleman's remarks, I got a letter the other day in reference to the case of a young man, highly respectable, and of high'character, belonging to one of the best families. He made an appli· cation for discharge and stated the facts in regard to hLq father's situation, his father having had a fall and having broken his leg and got crippled; and when the young ·· man made the statement to his immediate Dfficer he was told that he was a blank liar, adding some language that was not fit to go into the CONGRESSIONAL . RECORD; that he was nothing but a dead beat, and would not be discharged. I do not know who that particular officer was, but I propose to find out.

Mr. LITTLE. If the gentleman will ascertain the name of the officer in que.Stion, I will join him in an· earnest effort to see that he is placed in a proper place for a man of his character. I am now investigating a major who should be court· martialed for telling a soldier he would suffer if any more " damned civilians " interfered. ·

Mr. RAMSEYER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? l\1r. LITTLE. Yes. l\lr. RAMSEYER. The dispatch only applies to the Navy,

does it not? Mr. LITTLE. Yes. The Great Lakes is purely a naval

station, but Congress has just as much authority over the Army as over the Navy.

Mr. RAMSEYER. Does the gentleman know whether the War Department contemplates a similar order to discharge men? · Mr. LITTLE. I think if the Committee on Military Affairs will follow my suggestion of Saturday and request that the War Department institute courts-martial against the ollicers whose names have been mentioned here, it will terminate this series of insults against the American taxpayers and theil." Representatives in Congress. The facts were brought out in recent debates.

Mr. RAMSEYER. If the Military Affairs Committee did not know it is their business, they know it now, do they not?

Mr. LITTLE. They surely . do if I have had tile honot· of their attention during the debate on this West Point bill. Tho

2616 CONGRESSIONAL ltECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 3,

chairman [1\fr. DENT] inquired several times during Saturday's debate what. remedy anyone .kad to offer, and with great regret I see in the RECORD I did not yield to him.

1\fr. 1\fc.KENZIE. Mr. Chairman, wi11 the gentleman yield 1 Mr. LITTLE. Yes. Mr. McKENZIE. I assume, from what the gentleman has

just said, that the statements put in the RECOBD a few days ago tended to help get these young men out of the Navy. If that is true, I want to congratulate the gentleman from Kansas, and I hope he will put further statements in the RECORD; and inasmuch as the Committee on Military Affairs of the House is powerless to get these men out the efforts of the gentleman from Kansas will be greatly appreciated, I assure him, by the members of the Committee on l\.filitary Affairs if be will only get the boys out. •

1\fr. LI'ITLE. The gentleman from Illinois kindly suggests that perhaps the speech I made on Wednesday, January 29, tended to help get these young men out of the Navy, as indicated by the statement ~ade within two days thereafter that those in training on account of the war w:ould be immediately discharged from the Great Lakes Naval Station. As you knpw, a few days ago the Navy was kind but firm in the conviction that it was going to do just a8 it pleased about it, especially without regard to any suggestions from Congressmen who happened to be familiar with the facts in regard to any particular application for discharge. I regret to say the Navy was more firm tha.ri it was kind. This dispatch from the Great Lakes indicates that it suddenly became more kind than it is firm on this question.

The gentleman from Michigan [Mr. JAMES] informs me that on' the first 01; second day after my feeble protest against the Gt~eat Lakes order and my affable suggestion that the captain there be court-martialed, he- was informed over the telephone by the department that it was preparing an order that all young

· men in the training schools, training c.amps, Naval Reserves, and in the Regular Navy who enlisted for the war only would be discharged oti application without delay, which would evidently explain the prompt announcement from the Great Lakes. As a friend of the American Navy, I sincerely trust that he was correctly informed and that we shall never hear again that the men Congress employs to attend to any particular duty have become too big to listen to a Member of Congress just the same as they would to any other American citizen. As this speech of January 29 was, I believe, the first suggestion on this floor that anybody in the Navy should be court-martialed for insulting Congress and the American taxpayers, it does seem likely that the assumption of the gentleman from Illinois that this speech raised the fog that confused the naval authorities as to just where they stood. He kindly congratulates me and expresses the wish that I should put furt'her statements in the RECOBD containipg similar information. ·

1 As a number of the Members of this House have requested me to spread on the RECORD certain correspondence I have had with officers in the Navy and Navy Department, I am doing so under permission to extend. I have had considerable correspondence with these officers with regard to discharges of men who went in for the war only and ought to be at home. Some of them have shown an excellent understanding of the situation, and some evid.ently had no comprehension of the rights of civilians. _With some of them you could be very reasonable and with others you bad to be very frank. On reading these letters you can reach a conclusion as to whether the letters helped produce the result. My idea has been that a frank and reasonable presentation of the facts would help them to grasp the situation, and I have written accordingly.

First, I lay before the House a letter which is very frank, concerning the discharge of William Jones, a farmer boy from Johnson County, Kans., and I would just as leave make the fight upon the rights of Bill Jones as anybody in the United States:

JANUA.RY 23, 1919. DEAR Sm: I don't believe you quite get the idea. What I want to

know is whether you are going to discharge this man on his application and how soon you are going to do it. As long as the war is on the people of this country were willing to sacrifice their sons for their country in the Army and Navy. The minute the war is over the taxpayers and working people of this country immediately become by far the most important factor of the country, and they expect the Army and Navy to interfere just as little as- possible with the business of this country which supports the Army and Navy. Perfunctory information of this character is just what makes it so hard for fiiends of the Navy in Congre s to secure for it in times of peace the support it ought to have. The people of this country pay taxes to build these ships and pay your salary, and what we want now is that you shall respond by respecting the necessities of the farmers of the State of Kansas, instead of writing perfunctory letters of the character you send to me. Jones's people need him on the farm, and i! you need him in any particularly important way, say so and then Congress will decide whether the farm or you needs bim the worst by appropriate legislation, i! it becomes necessary. .

I trust you will attend to this matter without further delay and make it easier for Members ot the. Congress of. the United States to explain to the people, who pay the taxes, why, after the war is over,

the sons they really need :In the field are held for some probably purely formal duty. In times of war the captain of the Navy is an important factor in this Government. In times· of peace he is a very elmpl~ cog in the machinery, and I do ho.pe you will not insist that this bemade any plainer. I don't know thiS boy and I don't know whether he has made application. All I know about it is that intelligent men at home wired me that the conclitions are such there that he ought to be there at once. Storms were sweeping the prairies and his labor is; absolutely necessary on the farm to protect the stock and you writ& me that "his application will be given due weight a~d con.sideration with the Navy Department's circular letter and addenda." Wbat the farmer needs. captain, is not perfunctory information of this kind, but the boy at home to work on the farm. If you have any duty for him more important let us know what it is. For some time I ·was in command of a regiment at the Presidio and in the Philippines, and I am not at all nnfa.milia.r with the conditions that surround you.

Very truly, yours, E. C. LITTLE.

The captain replied t11at he had transmitted my letter to · theSecretary of the Navy, so we may reason that the letter of the date o.f January 23 may have been taken into consideration in. conjunction with the speech of January 29.

The second letter, you will sec, is of the very reasonable class~ If the one appears at tlle first glance to be an imitation of. a war club, you will see that the second, o:f January 27, is very; much of an olive branch, and the officer writes me that he has'. transmitted this to the Secretary of the Navy:. So we maY: argue from the premise that this following letter is also within. the cognizance of the department when it reaches a final conclusion of wliich the gentleman from Michigan speaks:

JANUAllY 27, 1019. DEAR Sm: With the very kindly continued appreciation of your

equ~table methods, I write to call your attention to a very gener111 complamt from our country about the methods employed at the Great Lakes, in Chicago, of holding men. They are mostly young men whowere sent there to be taught, and many of them just sent there last November, when it was supposed the war was going on. possibly. In. other places I find men are frequently discharged immediately and sent" home, without ever really completing the mustering in, while up there· somebody is holding them and having them shovel coal. They aredoing work for a dollar a day that other men in Chicago are getting $5 and $6 a day for. The Government of the United States has plenty of" money appropriated by Congress to hire this work done by men in. Chicago whose families need the support. Many ot these boys ru·a school boys, only taken out of their schools last fall because it was. supposed the Nation actually needed their services. II this fellow up. there fools around a little longer, he will cause every one of them to lose a year's education, by making it impossible for them to get back tnto school, ro as to go on with the year's work. This matter 1s gettingserious, nnd there are a large number ot very fine citizens who are be· coming very indignant. Such arbitrary and inexcusable methods as this. man up there is using, make it ver_y difficult for those in Congress whowish to see proper support given the armed forces of the Nation to ex· plain to the people at home. When this war was on, our people sacrificed everything to win and now, when the war is over and they need the boys at home and In school, some muttonhead at Chicago, dressed' in a little brief authority, just to exercise a little arbitrary power, refnseB to let them · return to school or let them out. Now, that we haveended the war, the farmers• interests and the interests of this country and the education of our children are much more important than shoveling a little coal up in Chicago. You have heretofore shown such a thorough appreciation of the best way in which to reconcilethe conflicting interests that I write you simply in the hope that youcan suggest some method of relieving that situation without any delay ..

I have the honor to remain. Most sincerely, yours,

E. C. LITTLE.

The unfortunate position taken by many officers has madethe agitation for the discharge of men who are needed more at home than at some training station absolutely necessary. I-rtlle information at hand is accurate, the end sought has been reached. To have been of any material assistance in accomplishing tllis result is very satisfactory. At the close of the Civil War men were discharged and the swords beaten into pruninghooks without wearing them out over bone heads who thought they were more important than fighting soldiers on the firingline. Such an Army and such a Navy, such military preparations as are essential to the safety of the Republic, will be provided at the proper time and in the proper way by the Congress. of the United States without too much advice from men whohave no loftier idea of the duties of a soldier than to take pridein wearing bright shoulder straps and jingling spurs, safely at home on the streets of the great cities. As the great Shake peareea.id three centuries ago :

Now great wars are stopped, Peace lives again; That she may long live here, God say amen.

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Kansas-has expired. The Clerk will read.

The Clerk read as follows: For pay of three assistant engineers of same, $3,600. Mr. WALSH. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last

word. The CH.A.IRMAN. The gentleman from Massachusetts moves

to strike out the last word. Mr. WALSH. I would like to inquire what is intended by

the transposition of some of this engineer force. I have not· been able to find it in the hearings or in the index. But you...

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-. HOUSE. 2617 haye there three assistant engiHeers and three oilers, apparently, in place of tln·ee engineers last year.

Mr. DEX'l'. It is e~-plaine<l on page 38. I read from the hearings:

This position was combined from two positions two year!" ago, saving the Government $1,800. His is a most important positiOn, and the man now filling it is very competent and has been offered $250 per month by outside companies. It would be almost impossible to fill this combined position by any other one man. It is in the interests of the Government and economy to hold him. Be is worth any two men I have ever seen.

The CHAIRi\lA~. It was formerly $2,400 for a chief engineer and $1,800 for an assistant chief engineer, and we abolished the assistant? .

Col. TIMBEULAKE. It was $1,800 for a beating and ventilating engi-neer.

The CHAIRMAN. That was abolished? Col. TIMBEnLAKE. Yes, sir. That is because the positions were combined two years ago. Mr. 'VALSH. Well, you combine the position of chief engi-

neer of the power plant with an engineer of heating and ventilating. I was inquiring about this shift of assistant engineers and three oilers. You increase the number of employees and ellmi- · nate apparently three engineers.

1\Ir. DENT. Col. Timberlake says: In our original estimates we asked for the pay of -one assistant chief

engineer of the power plant, $1,560 instead of $1,100; for the pay of • three assistant engineers we asked $4,500 instead of $3,600; and for the

pay of eight firemen we asked $7,720 instead of $6,240. That pay of the eight firemen is divided 1n this way: For pay of one boiler-house foreman $1,100 · for pay of two stoker firemen, $2,000; for pay of two firemen, '$1,920 ; 'and for pay of three firemen, $~.t.700. This does not increase the number of men~ but gives them a dmerent grade of pay, depending on the work they ao in the plant.

l\lr. WALSH. Well, the colonel apparently does not answer the question that I have raised. He is talking about the raises to these different firemen. The academy never before had oilers, as I understand. They were not carried. They previously had only one assistant engineer and three engineers. - .

Now, they have combined the position of engineer; and provide three assistant engineers, and also three oilers for the power plant. Is it possible that they have increased their heating or power plant facilities there and require additional employees?

M1·. DENT. I do not understand that there are any additional employees. There was a provision in the bill last year for the pay of three oilers at the power plant, $1,440.'

Mr. WALSH. Two oilers, $1,440, and three engineers for the power plant, $3,600.

1\Ir. DENT. The general reason that was given to the committee by Col. Tillman, the superintendent, and Col. Timberlake, the quartermaster, was that especially for these expert mechanical positions the academy had had great difficulty in securing men competent to serve.

Mr. WALSH. The bill last year carried two oilers at $1,440, and this year it carries three oilers at $1,440. Evidently it is not going to be very difficult to get oilers, if they can get three this year for the same pay that they gave two la,st year. Evidently they are not worrying much about that. I was inquiring what was the occasion for this shift. Is it because of the enlargement or the increase in the facilities?

Mr. DENT. No; it is not on account of that. The OHAIR?t1AN. The time of the gentleman has expired .. Mr. 'V ALSH. I will withdraw the point of order as to line 9. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman withdraws the point of

order. The Clerk will read. Mr. JOHNSON of Washington. Mr. Chairman, I ask unani

mous consent to revise and extend my remarks in the RECORD. The CHAIR?t1AN. The gentleman from 'Vashington asks

unanimous consent to revise and extend his remarks in the REcoRD. Is there objection?

I;tecessity for havi~g $5,000 imme<liately aYailable? Are they short of coal? '

Mr. DENT. Yes; that is my recollection of the matter, that it is a fuel proposition. At the middle of page 45 of the hearings Col. Timberlake says :

You increased it $10,000. It had been $40,000, and as soon as prices go down, i! 1 am at the academy, tbat appropriation will go down, too.

The CHAIRMAN. You are asking for an increase of $;:),000 for the item "For fuel, cadets' mess hall, shops, and laundry."

Mr. WALSH. The increase is $10,000. Mr. DENT. Yes. At the top of page 45 Col. Timberlake

says: This increase is due to the increased cost of coal. We also ask

that $5,000 of that be made immediately available. I was calculating when I was at West Point the first part of this

month the difference in the cost of coal this year and last year and what we will need to July 1. and I calculated that that difference is over $10,000; that is, that the cost will be $10,000 more tha.n during the last fiscal year. I am asking for an increase of $10,000, but $5,000 of that only is to apply to this year. We want to make the amount $70,000 all together, with $5,000 immediately available.

1\fr. WALSH. He is not going to buy $70,000 worth of coal. The $5,000 that he wants immediately available ap'parently is not for coal, but for something else. It nmy be for repairs. He is talking about the cost of material, the increase in Hi or 20 years. He says that if he is at the academy as soon as prices go down this item will go down, too. Unless he is an exceptionally young man, he probably will not be there when prices go down, and so the appropriation will continue to be ns large as it is now.

Mr. DENT. He further says in explanation of the increased cost of coal and the amount of coal, that it is due to the new laundry, which is bigger than the old laundry antl requires a good deal more coal. That is the explanation he giyes of it.

Mr. WALSH. I withdraw the point of order. 1\fr. 1\IANN. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out tllC last

word. I suppose the sums appropriated in this bill, both as salaries for services and for materials purchased, are promptly · paid by the Government. In that respect, if the War Department does so, it does Yery differently from what it does in ref- . erence to paying the men in the Army. I have here n letter from a young man, .John L. Russell, Company B, One hundred and thirtieth United States Infantry, Thirty-third Division, American Expeditionary Forces. ~ will read only a part of it, and think it will be interesting. It is written from St. Aignan, France, to his mother :

(On active service with the American Expeditionary Forces.) ST. AIGNAN, FRANCE, January 10, 1:119.

Mrs. GEORGE RUSSELL: DEAR MOTHER : • • • I have been here a month now, and I sup

pose I will be here another one before I get away from here. This is the worst place I ever struck since I have been in France. I have worn the same shirt for three months, and the suit of underwear I have on I have worn ever since I have been he.re, and when I was at the hospital I had to wear a suit for nearly two months. It seems funny that the Army can't furnish us a place for cleaning up our dotht's or else give us clean ones in exchange.

I never thought anything of it when we were up to the lines, because then it was out of the question to keep clean, but I don't see any excuse for- letting men lay around so dirty as they do. • • •

I was reading a story in the Saturday Evening Post the other day written by some war correspondent. It sure was some story and sounded nice to read of all right, but I have never seen anything near like it anywhere I have been. • • •

I haven't been paid for six and one-half months, but I am almost glad of that, for if I had been paid up every month as we were supposed to be, I would have spent it as fast as I got it, but, as it is now, whenever I get it I will have it.

• • • • • • • Your son,

. JOHN L. RUSSELL, Company B, One latndt·ed and thirtiet1l United States Infantry,

Thirty-third Di,;ision, American Expeditionary ll'orces. There was no objection. The Clerk read as follows : He hus not been paid for more than six months, notwithFor pay of three oilers for power plant, $1,440. standing the Secretary's letter, which I read in the House SatMr. WALSH. 1\fr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order on urday, in which he stated that the men were paid l)romptly, all

that. of them. On Saturday I read a telegram from the father of a :Mr. DENT. I move to amend that item, in line 11, page 13, by boy who had had 21 letters returned to him, the father, which

striking out" three" and inserting" two." letters had been sent to the boy and undelivered. I had asked The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the amendment. the War Department to find out something about It. They have The Clerk read as follows: sent a letter over to France to find out, but the psychological Amendment offered by Mr. DENT: Page 13, line 11, strike out the effect "-as that while I referred to the matter Saturday, this

woru ··three" and insert in lieu thereof the word "two." morning I found out where the young man is, through the The amendment was agreed to. · father and not through the War Department. The War De-The Clerk read as follows: partment, if I do not call their attention to it-and I will, but For fuel and apparatus, namely: Coal, wood, charcoal, stoves, grates even in spite of that-will probably be investigating this young

heaters, furnaces, ranges and fixtures, fire bricks, clay, sand, and for man for the next three months, long after he will have been dis-repairs of steam-heating and coal-conveying apparatus, grates, stoves b heaters, ranges, furnaces, and mica, and repair, improvement, and charged, pro ably. He has not. been paid for five or six months. maintenance of power plant, $70,000 : Provided, That $5,{)00 of this He has had 24 letters sent to htm which were returned. He had appropriation be, and the same is hereby, made immediately available. r drafts sent to him which were returned. He had London drafts

l\lr. WALSH. 1\Ir. Cllairmau, I reserve a point of orcter. sent to him which were lost. He had parcel-post packages sent There is an increase in this item of $10,000. What is the to him which were lost. He had a draft sent to him from this

2618 -.. -~ -- . _ _ _ CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE. FEBRUARY 3!. ~------------~------------------------~------------------~--------------~ ·country which was lost. The postscript to this letter which I at least, left the inference in my mind that the Chief of sta~ · have just read is as follows: bad issued an ~rder of this kind. Now the gentleman from

P. S.-I never did get that money draft you · t~aid you sent, -and I Kentucky comes along and says he does not know where the don't suppose I ever will. The last mall I got frum you wa& about tw.o d · · d weeks before I left the hospital. The rest I probably never will get, or er ongmate · I would like to know whether the General so you will be wasting your time writing to me. Staft' issued any such order. Let us have the exact facts.

Certainly., he will not. Utterly inefficient 1n delivering the .Mr. FIELDS. I have not the .fact as to whether the General mail or keeping the record of where men are who have gone to Staff issued the order, but it is time for Congress to begin to the hospitals. There never in all history has been a civilized find out and act upon its own responsibility in order to elimination so careless of its men 1n hospitals after wounds in the nate these practices that are absolutely repugnant to the .Amerservice as is the present Army department of our Government, ican people. and I regret to say it. [Applause.] Mr. GARNER. Could not the gentleman or the gentleman's

Mr. FIELDS. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last committee find out those facts? ,two words. Mr. Chairman, many complaints have been made Mr. FIELDS. I think it could, and I for one will do my best on the floor of the House of irregularities and injustices in the to ascertain the facts and to place the responsibility where it ·J\..filitary Establishment that are due either to intentional acts b.elongs. As one Me~ber of the American Congress. I say it is :or dereliction on the part of some military officer. I do not pre- time for such practices as that in the Army of the United tend to say that every complaint made is ~ just one. I do not States to be stopped. know; but I do know, from the correspondence I am receiving~ The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Kentucky that many things are being done that should not be done, ana has again expired, and the Clerk will read. · many things are being omitted that should be done. Mr. FIELDS. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to

Now, Congress c.an not get anywhere by calling attention to proceed for two minutes more. these things alone. The responsibility must be placed some- Mr. HOWARD. Make It five minutes. This is an interest-where, and I think it is time for Congress to begin to act as ing subject. well as talk. The CHAffiMAN. The gentleman from Kentucky asks unani-

There was read from page 2248 of the REcoRD on Saturday mous consent to proceed ;fo.r two minutes more. Is there oblast an order issued by Maj. Gen. Buck, of Camp MacArthur, jectlon? forbidding officers to sit in an assembly or at social functions There was no objection. where enlisted men are present; also prohibiting enlisted men Mr. FIELDS. Mr: Chairman, tiu~ gentleman from Texas from attending functions where officers are invited. The .Ameri- [Mr. G.A.RNER] throws the responsibility back onto the hlili ary can people do not approve of that sort of an order. The Gen- Committee. I noticed on Saturday last that when some attack eral Staff of the Army doubtless d.oes approve it. So, how are was made or something disparaging was said of the l\filitary we going to remedy a situation like that? Let us see if there Committee, it was received with applause. In that connection is some remedy that the Congress of the United States can I want to call the attention of the committee to a few things apply. Congress appropriates the money for the payment of that ha\e occurred .in the past. When the war started the the Army. Would not it be possible for the Congress, in the next Committ~e on Military Affah·s attempted to exercise some incleArmy appropriation bill, to write into that bill a provision that pendent JUdgment and place safeguards- around the rights of no part of the funds herein appropriated shall apply in payment the people, and 1n many instances the committee was repudiof the salary or compensation of the officer who promulgated ated and spanked to a fare-you-well by the Hou e. I hope that that order? It would evidently be in orde.r under the Holman in the future When the committee, after it has "'(}De into these rule, because it would be a limitation on the appropriation. matters in detail, brings them to the attention ;f the Hou .. e it

Congress, in my opinion, has a right to dismiss that gentle- may have the support of those Members of the House "ho are man from the service by refusing to pay his salary, and will now so anxious that these wrongs be remedied. not the people of the United States condemn us if we fall to The OHAffiMAN. The Cle.rk will read. take such action? I believe that they will, and properly so? _ The Clerk read as folkJws:

I serve notice now that when the next appropriation bill for For postage and telegrams (Increase of $500 submitted), $1,000. the support of the Military Establishment is brought to the floor Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out in line u, of the House I will offer an amendment of that character. I the words "(increase of $500 submitted)." ' want to .saY to you. g€lltlemen on both sides of this aisle who The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the amendm nt. condemn that sort of business in the cloak .room and on the floor The Clerk read as follows : of the House and before you.r constituents at home that you ., Amendment by Mr. MANN : Page 17, line 6, strike out the words will be called upon to vote on that amendment. I shall first (increase ot $500 submitted)." offer it in committee~ and, if it is rejected by the committee, I The CHAIRMAN .. The question is on agreeing to the amend-shall carry my fight to the floor of the House, and I shall make ment. , this fight, gentlemen, in g{)Od faith. I make it because I beli~ve The amendment was agreed to. that that practice in the Army is wrong. I shall make It because The Clerk read as follows: I believe if the Congress, even in one instance, refuses ·to appro- For maintenance or one automobile of the Ford type, $300. priate money for the payment of the salary of the officer who issued such an orderit would have a most splendid effect toward Mr. STAFFORD~ Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last democratizing the Army; and I hope the House will support the word. What is the necessity for advertising Henry Ford in this amendment when it comes to the floor of the House as it will item? There must .be some real reason for it. if I am here when the bill is considered. ' Mr. GREENE of Vermont. They did not want to put Edsel's

Mr. GORDON. Will the gentleman yield? name, probably. Mr. FIELDS. I will. Mr. DENT. That is because that is the kind of a car they Mr. GORDON. The gentleman has already stated that the 'Yant to buy. ·

General Sta:tr is in favor of it. The Chief of Staff is the mili· Mr. STAFFORD. This is not the purchase but the mainte-tary adviser to the President. Of course, we have no jurisdic- nance. tion over the Chief of Staff. I suppose we could refuse the M.r. DENT. Then it is the kind they have. money to pay the General Staff, but it has gone into an order Mr. STAFFORD. Does the gentleman think that the mainte-and how can you blame the ·major geneTa.l by aepriving him · of nance would go awry if he did not describe it as the Ford type~· his pay while carrying out the orders of his superior, the Gen- Mr. DENT. No; I do not. , eral. Staff. Mr. STAFFORD. Then, Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out

Mr. FIELDS. To be frank with the gentleman, I would ap- the words" of the Ford type." ply it to any officer in the A.rmy, from tile Chief of Staff down The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report t.hc amendment. for the man that would issue such an order is not fit to fill an~ The Clerk read as follows: · position in the Army of a democratic nation. I do not know Page 19, line 4, strike out the words "of the Ford type." where the order originated or who is responsible for it, but the Mr. DENT. Mr. Chairman, I accept the amendment. man who will issue an order of that kind is not fit to serve in The CHAIRMAN. The question is on agreeing to the amend-the Army of the United States. I hope that the Congress will ment. begin to take action now toward the elimination of that sort The amendment was agreed to. of doctrine. The Clerk read as follows.;

Mr. GARNER. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. FIELDS. Ye"' 1

For genc~al repairs to cadet camp, repairs to camp grounds, toilets, .,. and . sup_plymg o.f tent :lloors, and camp furniture to equip the new

Mr. GARNER. It seems tbat there is a difference of opinion addition-authorized for the fiscal year 1919- to the old cadet en-between two members of the Committee on 1\Hlitary Affairs. ca~~:J::~~!a, $~~~~0$5 ,000 of this appropriation be and the same 18 The gentleman from Ohio [Mr. GoRDON], as I 1J?derstood him, hereby, made immediately available. '

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2619

1\ir. MANN~ Mr. Chah'man, I move to strike out the last word~ I suggest to the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. DENT], as a matter of form, that the proviso which appears at the top of page 20 ought to be a · part of the paragraph which appears at the bottom of page 19.

Mr. DENT. That is correct, and I move to amend by striking out the period, after the figure "10,000," on page 19, line 2G, and by inserting in lieu thereof a colon, to be followed by the proviso. ·

The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the amenument. The Clerk read as follows: P L1 ge 19, line 26, nfter the " $10,000" strike out the period and in

sert a colon nnd the proviso n.t the top of page 20. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on agreeing to the amend-

ment. The runenc1ment was agreed to. The Clerk read as follows : For department of natural and experimental philosophy : Additions

to apparatus to illustrate the principles, acousti.cs, optics, and astronomy; books of reference, scientific periodicals, textbooks, . stationery, materials, and repairs ; and for repairs to the observatory buildings and repairs to clocks, and for contingent expenses not otherwise provided tor, $2,350.

Mr. :MANN. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last word. The language in line 17 is "additions to apparatus to lliustrate the principles." Is there not an omission there? Should not that be " principles of mechanics "?

Mr. DENT. Mr. Chairman, on page 21, line 17, after the word " principles," I move to amend by inserting the wo-rds ~'of mechanics." That is the way the bill read last year.

Tlie CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the amendment. The C~erk read as follows: Page 21, line 17, after the word "principles," insert the words "o.f

mechanics." The CHAIRMAN. The question is on agreeing to the amen<l-

ment. The amendment was agreed to. The Clerk read as follows: For the purchase and maintenance of one automobile o.f the Fortl

type, $710. - 1\fr. DYER. Mr. Chairman, does not the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. STAFFORD] desire to offer an amendment here, as he did before?

Mr. STAFFORD. I do not. Mr. DYER. Mr. Chairman, then I move to strike out the

words " of the Ford type." The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the amendment. The Clerk read as follows : Page 25, line 2, strike out the words " of the Ford type.'' Mr. STAFFORD. Mr. Chairman, personally I tllluk the

whole paragraph should be eliminated. · We all know that the War Department has adopted for use in the Army during the war the Dodge car as a pleasure car for use of officers. There are plenty of those cars available, and all that will be required would be to provide for the transportation of .one of these cars to West Point. · .

Mr. DYER. I would not fayor striking out the whole para· graph wifuout investigation.

Mr. DENT. I have no objection to that amendment. Mr. McKENZIE. If I might say to my friend from Missouri

(1\Ir. DYER], the testimony before the committee was that they wanted a Ford car for certain specific pm·poses. · 1\lr. DYER. They can buy a Ford car if they want to, or buy any kind.

_lr. McKENZIE. The committee felt that it wa.s a wise thing to limit the amount to the price of a Ford car.

1\Ir. DYER. They can purchase other cars for that amount just as well as they can the Fo1;d. I have no desire to limit them to the type of car that they shall purchase.

The CHAIRMAN. The question is on agreeing to the amend-ment. .

The amendment w·as agreed to. The Clerk read as follows : For commercial periodieals, stationery, office furniture und supplies.

adding machine, and for binding orders, circulars, etc., for the o1fice of the treasurer, United States Military Academy, $710.

l\Ir. HULL of Iowa. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the chairman of the committee if ·he intends to b·y to finish this bill to-day? An item that is \ery important will be soon reached. a.'here are three members of the committee who are ausent today, and it is a very unfortunate thing that the:y are not here. l wired to Mr. l\IoRIN on Saturday to be here this morning. I just received a telegram from him a few moments ngo saying that he ba<l just received my telegram. I presume that this i~ an example of bureau efficiency. Under the ch·culllStnnces I

think we ought to have an understanding that we will pass the item to which I refer until to-morrow morning.

1\Ir. DENT. ~Ir. Chairman, under the rule that we are proceeding tmder this bill is to be considered for two hours. There fs some difference of opinion as to whether the time expit·es at 1 o'clock or quarter past 1, as we did not begin the consideration until a quarter past 11. I intend to consume all of that time. I do not know whether we can pass the bill or not.

I would like at least to get down to the building proposition that I know the gentlemnn has in mind.

Mr. HULL of Iowa. Yes. Mr. DENT. At least that '"e should read that far. Mr. HULL of Iowa. Would it not be fair simply to say we

would not consider that building proposition to-day? 1\fr. DENT. Well, if we can dispose of it--1\Ir. McKENZIE. Undoubtedly there will be a point of order

made to the proposition which the gentleman from Iowa has in mind, and why would it not be well to go right along, and if we can get to that part of the bill and a point of order shou'id be made and sustained, why, of course, it is immaterial whether our ftiends are here or not, but if the point of order is o~er· ruled, why then we can talk about postponing the consideration to a later period.

1\Ir. HULL of Iowa. Well, but perhaps those gentlemen like to discuss the point of order.

Mr. McKENZIE. I do not understand they are parliamentary sharks.

The CHAIRl\fAN. Without objection, the pro forma amend-ment is withdrawn.

There was no objection. The Clerk read as follows : For the repair and maintenance of the cadet boathouse and the pur

chase and maintenance of boats and canoes for the instruction. of cadets ln rowing : for extra pay of one engineer soldier in chhrge of boat· house, at 35 cents per day, $750.

1\Ir. WALSH. 1\Ir. Chairman, I move to strike out the last word. I desir.e to ask the chairman of the committee how much of this small appropriation is expected to be devoted to repairs and also for the purchase of new canoes.

Mr. DENT. I do not think this is itemized. g:'hat amount does not appear to be itemized in the hearing, and how much

. is for the boathouse and how much for the purchase of boatsand canoes I do not know, but it is the same item in the same amount. -

l\Ir. TILSON. Will the gentleman permit a suggestion? Mr. DENT. Yes. 1\Ir. TILSON. Is not that item just to repair the boathouse,

where the foundation or underpinning was damaged by the ice? 1\lr. DENT. Yes; but I do not know how much is going to be

expended on repairs and how much on boats. He did not make a distinction between the two. It is only $750.

Mr. TILSON. He did not mention the purchase of any new canoes or boats, as I remember~ and I got the impression that the bulk was for repairs caused by an ice jam.

1\Ir. WALSH. I withdraw the pr(} forma amendment. The Clerk read as follows :

. For ~eP!tirS. to cadet barracks : Fo.r repairing an.d renewing plaster• mg, pamtmg, and c.'l.lclmining, repairs to woodwork, refiooring, rear· ranging rooms, increasing sinks, baths, and other incidental repairiJ to the building, 15,000

P·rovided, That this appropriation be, n.nd the same is here-by, made immediately available.

Mr. STAFFORD. Mr. Chairman, I suggest to the gentleman from Alabama that the proviso should be part Of the preceding paragraph and not a separate paragraph.

1\Ir. DENT. 1\f.r. Chairman, the gentleman is conect, and I move to amend by striking out of line 21, page 30, the period after the figures " $15,000 " and inserting a semicolon., making the proviso part of the paragraph.

The CHAilll\IAN. The Clerk will re-port the amendment. The Clerk read as follows: Page 30, line 21, after '' $1!S,OOO " strike out the period, insert a

colon and the following: "Provided, That this appropriation be, and the same is hereby, made immediately avllliable."

The question was taken and the amendment was agreed to. The Clerk read as follows: For repairs of boilers, engines, dynamos, motors, refrigerating and

other machinery in the cadet mess, and the replacement of same, to be expended without advertising, $6,1500.

Provided, That this appropriation be, and the same is hereby, made immediately available.

1\Ir. DENT. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that the proviso e considered part o! this paragrnph.

The c.I:d.IR~L~. WiUwut objection it '"ill be so ordered. [After a pause.] The Chair hears no objection.

2620 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 3,

The Clerk read as follows : For one 10-ton, 3-wheel road roller, $3,GOO. Mr. STAFFORD. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the point of order

.on the paragraph. I ~ish to inquire of the chairman of the committee whether he has any information as to whether the ;war Department through its activities in furnishing our cantonments and camps has not some of these road rollers?

1\ir. DENT. That question, to my recollection, was askeu in the hearings before the committee and the officers of the academy were unable to furnish the information and it was not pursued. I think the gentleman from Kansas [Mr. ANTHONY] can give the gentleman some information. ·

· 1\Ir. ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman, in the case of the road roller, they have an old one which they desire to put in with the company for a new one, and they thought they could get some substantial allowance for the old roller.

1\fr. STAFFORD. It is entirely practicable for the "\Var Department to transfer any ·one of a number of surface rollers they must ha\e on hand as is provided in the following paragraph in the case of a tractor. Why should not you alsoprovide for the transfer of a road roller?

· Mr. ANTHONY. Because it is an· old roller on hand anu they desired to put it in with the company and realize some Yalue on it.

Mr. STAFFORD. Oh, yes; but we are just purchasing a new nrticle, some of which we may have on hand and for which we may have no use, and we are out the difference in the price of the eJo:change.

Mr. ANTHONY. In the case of a road roller: the difference is onJy--

1\fr. STAFFORD. Mr. Chairman, I think that it is a matter worthy of some consideration, and I make the point of order that it is not authorized by law. · Mr. A:KTHONY. Why not ubstitute a paragraph offering

the transfer of a road roller from the War Department? Mr. STAFFORD. I think that is a very ggod suggestion, to

have it included in the following paragraph. · 1\Ir. DENT. Does the gentleman from Wisconsin mo\e to

Jtitrike out all of line 19 and insert in lieu thereof a provision directing the• Secretary of War to transfer one of these road

the present Artillery stable to accommodate 72 additional animals; $40,000 (or construction of wings to the cresent Artillery barracks to accommodate u3 additional men; $40,00 for construction of wings to the present Cavalry barracks to accommodate 70 men; $500,000 for enlarging the Military Academy to accommodate the authorized number of cadets : Construction of cadet barracks and headquarters, to be located at the south of the area of the old or south barracks· $60,000 for 8 sets married officers'. quarters ; $60,000 for 20 sets bache~or quarters; $40,000 for automatic stokers; in all, $812,777; appropriated in House bill No. 1118G for tlscal year 1919, shall remain available until cxpe?deu : Pro1;ided, That for the purpose of accounting only, all funds herernbefore appropriated under the titles " Current and ordinary expenses," " Miscellaneous items and incidental expenses," and " Build~ngs anu grounds " ~hall be disbursed and accounted for by the disbursmg officer, nited 15tates l\1illtal"Y Academy, as "Maintenance, United States Military Adademy," and for the purpose shall constitute one fund: And pt·ovided, That hereafter, when any machinery, apparatus, Implements, supplies. or materials which have been h~retofore or may hereafter be purchased or acquired from appropriations made for the support of the United States Military Academy are no longer needed or are no longer serviceable, they :may be sold in such manner as the superintendent may direct and the proceeds placed to the credit ot the appropriation from which originally purchased or acquired, and shall ~~rl~ed. available for expenditure throughout the fiscal year In which

Mr. STAFFORD. 1\fr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order. There are so many independent propositions involved in this paragraph that have no relation to one another that I think it might require some time. to consider them seriatim.

Mr. SHA.LLENBEllGER. If the gentleman from Wiscon.silt" [Mr. STAFFO~D] will perruit, the long number of items, commencing with $7,777 for grading and granolithic paving in area of· routh cadet barracks, are items that were authorized in. the last bill and were largely suspended or incompleted because of the inability to get labor or to get material. And the object of this item in this appropriation· bill is to continue the money necessary to complete them, because otherwise the money would lapse the 1st of next July. · ·

1\Ir. STAFFORD. I will take the matters up in order. · Mr. 1\L\...~..~N. "\Voulu the gentleman from Nebraska yleld to a question?

Mr. SHALLENBERGER. Yes. M:r: MANN. I finu some items in the current appropriation

act. I haYe not referred to the House bill to finu appropriations, because I knmv you can not make an appropriation merely .by a House bill until it becomes an act. What does this refer to? Is this something that Congress has enacted and is the law? · rollers?

Mr. STAFFORD. lowing paragraph, tractor.

I think that can be embodied in the fol- Mr. SHALLENBERGER. At what place? where there is authority to transfer a 1\fr. MANN. It says, at the botforn of page 33 of this biJJ,

1\Ir. DENT. Just auu " roller" after the word "tractor." The CHAIRl\Llli. Does the gentleman make the point of

order'! Mi·. STAFFORD. · I make the point of order. The CHAIRMAN. The point ·of order is sustained. 1\Ir. HULL of Iowa. 1\ir. Chairman, this is the place in the

bill where the building program should come in, and I again ask the chairman of the committee if he will not consent to let that item go over until to-morrow? There should be a full membership here. This is a very important part of the bill. Even if the point of order is made it should be reserved, and it would take some time to el:l)lain the matter to .the membership of this House, and under no circumstances could we finish in the time a greed upon.

It is but fair to members of the visiting board, 'vho lmders tood when they left town that this bill would not be considered in the House, but was to be considered again in the committee to-morrow before being presented to the House. Those Members can not be here. ~~nd in the interest of fair play, I ask that it go over until to-morrow.

:Mr. DENT. I will state to the· gentleman I do not think tills is the place in which he wants to offer the amendment. ,,Vhy not let us read the building program we did ngree to and get that out of the way? And then the time is about up for the consideration of this bill~ and I think we can take care of the gentleman. But I would like to straighten out this amendment.

The .CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read. \ The Clerk read as-follows :

"appropriated in House bill numbered 11185 for the fiscal ~ear 101!:>." •

1\Ir. SHALLENBERGER. That was the current appropriation for the academy for 1919. . ·

Mr. l\1ANN. '.fhat ·was the bill teat was introduced in the House?

1\Ir. SHALLENBERGER. Yes, s ir. Mr. MANN. A bill for an act. But when it is a law it is i

bill no longer. Mr. SHALLENBERGER The language rn~rely needs to be

changed. Mr. MANN. This is something that was included--1\fr. SHALLENBERGER. In the law. Yes, sir. It is part

of the existing law. . 1\Ir. MANN. I thought it was a bill that somebouy had intro

duced. Mr. STAFFORD. Is the gei;J.tleman certain . that all these. pro~

nsions relating to construction have heretofore been authorized by law? · · - Mr. SHALL.ENBERGER. That is the fact, as I understand it.

Mr. STAFFORD. Where is there any authorization for the installation of automatic s~okers'? Where is there any author:ization for grading and granoHthic pavement in the area of the so11th cadet barracks? ·

1\fr. SHALLENBERGER. I have the act here before me, and it states "for grading and· granolithic paving in area of south cadet barracks, $7,777." The items here in l:he bill which we are considering now are copied from the act of last year.

Mr. STAFFORD. What page of the act is the gentleman The Secretary of War is authorized to direct the Ordnance Depart- reading from? ·

roent to transfer, without charge, to the Quartermaster of the Unite<! Mr. SHALLENBERGER. It was . the act approved January States Military Academy at West Point, N. Y., one IIolt 10-ton artil-l ery tractor, caterpillar type, such tractor to be used by the Quarter- 17, 1918. It is on page 13· of the copy of the act I have in my . roaster Corps -tor all kinds of tractor uses : Pro'Videa further, That the hand here. · Secretary of War shall cause the work herein provided for to be done 1\{r STAFFORD I "-~ 1 t t t b f nnd performed under the direction and supervision of the superintendent _.,- ·. i

1 • · .uave "1a purpor s 0 e a copy 0 that

of the United States Military Academy: Provided ftH·ther, That the net, and I do not find any authorization for the automatic Secretary ot War is authorized to detail Col. E. J. Timberlake as stokers . . Doe~ the gentleman find any authorization for them quartermaster, disbursing, and constructing officer nt the United States · th h 1 bef hi ? M1lltary Academy for such period of time as he deem fit notwith- ln e copy e laS ore m . standing -the proldsions of rnsting.Jaw rt>lnting 1:0 i.be.d~ of 'Oflicers: . ~tr. : HALLENBERGER. •The CJerk Wlll.find that for me, it Provided; ~h~t the following amounts: 7,7.77 tor ; gt'a.din., .and .. g~o- ·the ,gentleman . will permit. . . _ - . . ;

_ ;.lithic paying m .arca. of sou cade~ bru:_raclrs ; -$25,00_0 !Qr. 'ms~cti{)n_ . ·Mr ·BTAF.E.'O.RD , Vhile, tll CJel:k ·s: locating that .author·· of an · east wing ·to .the l>Tesent Artillery ·gun -shed, smulur ro the west . ·. ·- · · , : ~ · -

· ·; · wing; ·uo,ooo-for-~construction of an addttion · to -too .routh win-g ·ot .1zatwn;'.~ay·I · .sk·the:-gentleman s· attention to the Beeond para-

1919 •. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE.

graph on page 33? What is the necessity .of auth-Orizing the Mr. MANN. That ought not to be in here. It is all :right detail of Col. Timberlake by law? to sell it, but it is contrary to the policy of Congress -entirely

Mr. SHALLENBERGER. I have, if you will permit, the item, to authorize Government officials to sell some Qld machinery on page 12, for the installation of automatic stok-ers under and take that money and use it over again. boilers in power plant, $40,000. · That was authorized last year. 1\Ir. SHALLENBERGER. If the gentleman will permit,

The rea&'On for authorizing the ass4,"tlment of Col. Timberlake while tlle chairman is looking up the direct testimony of Col. is, as I understand it, in the first place, that the Committee and Timberlake, I recall that he stated several specific ins~'ID.ces those in charge .of the 11.cademy, knowing that he ·has been \"'-ery where iJJe would luwe been able to save the Government conefficient for the p&.st four years, are satisfied that he can render siderable money by being permitted to (lispose of some of this the Government and the academy great sen·iee by being eon- more or less w-orn-out -or illsearded machinery, imr>lements, and tinued. Under the pre. ent law, after having -been detailed for instrument: that he hM there. four years to that place, he automat:ica.lly returns to his tJOsl- 1\Ir. AL\.~"'N. I think he ought to. be permitted to sell them, tion in the line, which he has ah·eady done, .and it require.'> this and I think he ba the autllority now to dispose of them, ·and special authorization now to permit him to be longer cimtinned he has the authority to ask for an appropriation for new in-at the academy. It is just a military matter. strument. . But under this ystem Congress would never kn'Ow

The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman has · expired. anything .auout what was done, bemuse he e<>uld sell something Mr. STAFFORD. .l\1r. Chairman, I' reserv-e t1ie point .of order and use the money.

still further, and I ask recognition under that reservation. :Mr. SHALLENBERGER. That same language has been enMay I, then, inquire as to another item, the proviso afthe top .of acted by ·congress in regard to the dispo a.l of other war matepage 34, the necessity for the matter contained in the proviso? rials and articles. permittino- the money to go back into the

Mr. SHALLENBERGER. 'well, that is an item that has been same fund and be reinvested. carried, or .a provision that has been carried, in the bill before, 1\fr·. MANN. We repealed all · that the other day in the and it is asked for by the academy in the interest .of eeonQmic deficiency bill. administration of bookkeeping and the best use Qf tile funds. It Mr. SHALLENBERGER. 'I am aware of that faet; but :the is the general purpose. more or less, of making lump-sum appro- colonel asked for this, knowing that it was in -other- bill.s. pria.tions that have gone into aU of these bills. 1\Ir. 1\IA...l\lN. Yes. It was .in another bill as a .war-emergency

Mr. STAFFORD. Going back to the .question of reauthoriza- .lllll.tter, but we repealed that in tOO d~fi.cieney bill the other tion of the appropriations that were authorized in last year's clay. . . .appropriation act, may I inquire of the gentleman what is the 1\fr. SHALLENBERGER. The committee were satisfied that necessity for reauthorization when 'the last year'.s act carried · if we granted bim this power he would not abuse it. that authorization? Mr. 1\I.ANN. Col. Timberlake will not live forever, and it is

Ir. Sfl4,LLENBERGER. Well, as I understand ithe law and absolutely eontrrrry to the policy that Congress has adopted .for the '{l-resenta.tion Qf the m-atter uiade to the committee, it .seems many years. _ this will revert to the Treasm·y unless the money is reappro- Mr. DENT. I think I ean. settle this qu..estion by moving ·to priated in this bill. and the idea of the -committee was that these strike out all the ta:nguage after the WOl'd "di:rect," in line 16, sums having been granted, after proper consideration by Con- page 34. d<JWD. to the end of the ,par.agroph. gress, we want to continue them until the projects are com- Mr. 1\IANN. That would be all right. plete<l. · 1\Ir. STAFFORD. As I under.s:tand, w1der general Law be has

lfr. STAFFORD. As I understand the law-1 may be mis- authority now to dispose .of di carded supplies by advertising. taken-when Congress .authorizes the eonstruetion of a build- There IS a general proviswn of la-w ruuthorizing the sale of :unlng in an act the money does oot have to be -expended that y.ear, necessary supplies. I .can not · ee any rea...,on for cm:rying :any but the officer bas two yeru·s in which to contract 'for Its ex- par-t of :this la.st.proriso in the bill penditure. It remains an authorization for two years follow- The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman fr-om W"LScon-ing the year in which thee money is appropriated. sin has again expired.

Mr. MANN. It would probably take two .y-ears after it be- .Mr • .ANTHONY. Mr. Chairman, will the g-entleman yield? COJnes a iaw to do this work anyway. ?tlr . .STAFFORD. I still .reserve the point of order.

Mr. SHALLENBERGER. I do not know whether he ·covered Mr~ ANTHOlii'Y~ I think there is need of carrying that pro-that in the testimony, as to whether a time limit would run viso_ The .superintendent related to us that ·erery tim-e the :against the .appropriation; but the general statement was mad-e old material was condemned in the usual course and .offered that they had not been ab~e to complete these buildings, and : for sale the junk dealers from the n~'l.l'-by to\Yils would come probably had not been able to eontra.ct for them_. owing to the to th-e aca-demy and fo1·m a combination und-er which they woul.{l difficulty of getting labor and material during the war, and offer practically nothing to the G.overnment for this stuff.. But therefore they asked for a reappropriati:on. the :superintendent says that if he i-; permitted to distlose of it

Mr. STAFFORD. I think I am correct in t'hc 1mderstanding to manufacturers whE:Il they are buying new machinery he could .of the law, that the officer would hav-e two years following the trade for it and get a \"'el'Y large valu-e for it. I think it is a wi e npvropria.tion ln which to contract tor this work. provision: and he sho11ld have it.

Mr. MANN. That is the general rule. Mr. STAFFORD. There should be some provi.sion t.o the :Mr. SHALLENBERGER I think the gentleman Is eon"Cct effect tbnt the prQCeeds of these sales shall revert to the mlscel-

aoout that. laneous receipts of the Treasury. Mr. 1\fANN. The rule us to .vubli.e buUdings is th..'lt the au- MrL DEl~T. Would ,not that n:ecess.a.t.'lly follow?

th'O:rjzation remains available unti:l the !building ~s completed. · Mr. STAFFORD. It is generally so provided when ''e make Wh ther that applies to these appropriations or 11ot I do not : such authorizations as here. ~ lmow. Mr. DENT. I haye no objection to the entire paragraph

Mr. D~'T.r. The idea of the committee was to preyent the going out. Mr. Chah·man, I move to strike out the last proviso .appropriation from lapsing. I do not think it can do any harm. 1n the paragraph. so i.ong as it is but a repetition of what we gave last year and · :Mr. STAFFORD. · Tlte re ervation of the point of orller is it \vas not expended. still pending, an.d the hour for rising bas arrived. .

lHl'. 'SH..-\.LLENBERGER. The .committee was atisfi.e.d that Mr. DENT. I would like to dispose of that last portion Col. Timberlake had made careful investigation of this nmtter~ fir t. r move to strike out the last proviso. and he must have thought that it was neeessalT to haTe this Mt·. TAFF RD. You can not do that ''ith a resenation nutborizati.on. . . :pending.

Mr. STAFFORD. I think l1e ":as labonng.under ..a misappre- Mr. DENT. I t11ou~t you wonlu witlull·aw if I mo'\"'ed to bengion; that be had ~t au.thortty u~r enstlng law: . strike out.

1\Ir. DENT. These items :are appropnnted only.tor .one year. · Mr. STAFFORD. I withdraw it. ~he money must be -expended by next .Ju1y m· will have to be The CHAIRMAN~ Tbe point -of order is , withdJ.·awn. The :turned back into the Treasm-y. . · Clerk wm 1·eport the amendment offered by the:ge:ntleman from . l\lr. :STAFFORD. Ir do not thi~ it '~ou.ld do any ha1·m.. Alabama._ .

The C.IIAffil\IA.N. The time of the een..tleman from W1scon- 'The Clerk read as follows: 'Sin bas expil".ed. .

1\lr. STAFFORD. I again reserYe the point of o-ruet· an.d .Amendment" otl'ered by Mr. DEXT: Page :a. strik_e out lines 10 to 19_, nsk recognition under that rese1"·ation. inclusive. ·

I msh now to direct attention .a..c; to the need of the matte.r The CHAIRll.AN. The question is on agreeing to the amend-contained in the last proviso. autholi.zing the superintendent . ment. to sell the unnecessary and discarded machinery~ implements, ·The amendment was agt·eed to. and supplies and have. them transferred to the~ ·of the ap- 1\Ir. HULL of Iowa. Mr. Chairman, -! want to offer an amend-propriations from which they were originally purchased. ment before the committee rises.

2622 CONGRESSIO~AL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY

Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Chairman, the time agreed upon for the consideration of this bill to-day has · run out: The two hours have been construed to begin at the beginning of the d-ebate.

The CHAIRMAN. That is correct. The time allotted for the consideration of this bill to-day has expire<l. The committee will rise automatically.

The comm~ttee accordingly rose; and the Speaker having re~mmed the chair, Mr. SABATH, Chairman of the Committee of the 'Vhole House on the state of the Union, reported that that committee having had under consideration the Military Academy appropriation bill, House bill 15462, had come to no resolution thereon.

EULOGIES ON THE LATE REPRESENTATIVE ROBBINS.

Mr. CRAGO. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous con~ent for the present consideration of the following, which I send to the Clerk's desk . .

Tlie SPEAKER. The Clerk will report it. The Clerk read as follows : :Mr. CRAOO asks unanimous consent that Sunday, .February 16, 1919

be set apart for addresses on the life, character, and public servi~s of the Hon. EDWARD E. ROBBINS, late a Representative from the State of Pennsylvania.

The SPEAKER. Is there objection? There was no objection.

CALENDAR FOR ' UNA.J."'UMOUS CONSEXT.

The SPEAKER. The Clerk wlll report the first bill . on the Calendar for Unanimous Consent.

PRESENTATION OF FALSE CLAIMS 'f6 STATE DEPARTMENT.

The first business on the Calendar for Unanimous Consent was the bill (H. n. 9094) to amend section 1 of Title VIII of the &Ct entitled "An act to punish ·acts of interference with the foreign relations, the neutrality~ and the -foreign ·commerce of the Unit-ed States, to punish espiotiage, and better to enforce the criminal laws of the United States, an<l for other purposes," npproyed June 15, 1917.

The Clerk read the title of the bill. The SPEAKER. Is there objection? 1\fr. MOORE of Pennsylvania. · 1\Ir. Speaker, reserring the

right to object, I intend to object unless the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. GABD], who presented the bill, can convince me that it ought to be p:is e<l in tbis form.

Mr. GARD. Mr. Speaker, the matter i one to which the gentleman from Penn ylYru:iia objected upon the last day set nsiue for the Calendar for Unanimou. Consent, and I desire to take up with the gentleman from Pennsylvania and l\lembers of the House generally the·need of this measure, not as a war me::is

.ure but as a peace measure. I heartily agree with what the gentleman sai<l when the bill

was last hefore the House, that if this were distinctly a war measure it ·hould not now be pressed, inasmuch as we are practically upon a peace basis. · But after the gentleman from PennsylYania objected I pr~ente<l the matter anew to the Secretary of State, and I haYe the letter of the Acting Secretary of State of January 30, 1919, in which letter he states that thi.s i. in no sense to be consi<lered as war legislation. During the war action on claims was largely suspended. Now that the war is oyer many claims will be pre ented, and it is in connection with the pre entation of tho e claims that this legislation is desired.

1\lr. DYER. Will the gent1ep1an yield? 1\lr. GARD. I yield to the gentleman from l\lissouri, a mem

b r of the Judiciary Committee. l\lr. DYER. This bill which the gentleman offers is proposed

a s an amendment to the espionage act, i it not? · Mr. GARD. Yes; it is an amendment to · section 1 of title 8 of that act. · -

l\lr. DYEIL And that act itself is a "·ar measure, is it not? l\Ir. GARD. f com· e, it is <lesigned to afford protection to

all branclle5 of th ~ war, including recruiting, enlistments, and the proces es of the selectiYe draft, manufacturing, and everything else. In other words, in so far as the civil authorities ' could act, the espionage law, which contribute(} its force in proper protection of law toward a proper morale in this country an<l towar<l the upbuilding and the continuance of manufactures, erved a great purpose.

Ir. DYER I appreciate that; but I say it is a wa1; measure, and at the end of the war officiaHy that act woul<l become inoperative, would it not?

1\Ir. GARD. Some parts of it; yes. l\Il·. DYER And therefore this amendment would go out with

it. Does uotJthe gentleman think he had better try to get this 11nsse<1 as an imlepen<lent propo ition, · if it is important and nece ·sary? ·

Mr. GARD. The amenument to Rection 1 of title 8 is not limite<l to the time of war.

Mr. MOORE of Pennsylvania. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. GARD. Yes; I yield. 1\lr. MOORE of Pennsylvania. Does the gentleman intentl to

~ave the letter of the Acting Secretary of State read, or does he mtend to ask to have it printed in the RECORD?

Mr. GARD. I haye submitted it to the gentleman and if he desires to have it read I will do so. '

1\Ir. MOORE of Pennsylvania. I saw the letter of the Acting Secretary of State, and am frank to say that it presents a meritorious situation. He desires to prevent the making of false and fraudulent statements to the Secretary of State. ·

.Mr. G4.RD. Yes. Mr. MOORE of PennsylYania. And he contends in the letter

that it is not a war measure, but one that would operate in time of peace. I am heartily in faYor of the enactment of a law which will prevent the making of false statements to the Secretary of State, as indicated in that letter, if we do not have such 1aw, but I am not in faYor of tacking that kind of a provision onto the espionage law. The e pionage law was passed June 15, _19~ 7 ... It is a very drastic act. It enters upon the rights of mdinduals all over the United States. It was intended purely as a war measure. It relates to e ·pionage, to vessels in port~ of the United States, to the injuring of vessels engaged in foreign commerce, to interference with foreign commerce, to the enforcement of neutrality, to the seizure of arms and other articles int~nded for export, rn~ldng certain exports in time of war unlawful, to ~~e disturbance of foreign relations, to passport , to counterfetting Government seals, to search warrants to the use of the mails, and then a number of general provisi~ns upon whi<'h ·there is no limitation. AH the provisions are just as .much in force. now as when the espio!1age act 'vas passed. It Im.-olyes the right of tree peech, the right · of an officer to search, and all that sort of thing, much of which we ·may · be called upon to repeal as soon as the President announces that the war is at an end. . ,

l.\lr. GARD. _\ssuming what the gentleman says is true, that there may. !Je necessity and p~opriety of repealing some parts of the e pwnage law, that ·which I have tried to conyince the g~ntleman .and. other Member of the House, is that this part of the section 1s not such a ·ection of the act as at this time or in the uear future could 'vith propriety be repealed, because it takes up the matter of presentation of claims to the Secretary of tate .and those "clai.m · that the Secretary of State ays by operatiOn of law clunng the wnr time were suspended but now that peace is practically re tored they are coming in in great number·, and there is much more necessity now that the law should be continued than there was that the law should be continued during war time.

~fr. l\fODR~ of PennsylYan!a. Let me interrupt the gentlerna~ to ask. t~1s: If t~e. Committee on the Judiciary had reporte(l a bill proVIdmg that It should be unlawful to make false tatemen~s .to the Secretary of State under the e circum tance , anu p~ov1dmg a penalty, does the gentleman think tllat th~ Commlttee of the Whole or the Hou e woul<l object to that?

Mr. GAllD. I do not know. l\!r. MOORE of Pennsylvania. Why shoulll it IJe put on the

espiOnage act when the repeal of it will be an i sue before lon..,. apparently, to bolster up that act? ~·

J\Ir. GARD. · 'Yhat I am trying to get the gentleman to understand is that this section is not one that will be attacked by those who faYor a repeal of the espionage act, IJecau e it applies' only ~o P.roceedings before the Secretary of State, nnd primarily, now m t1mes of peace, because the Secretary of State says thnt the presentation of applications and claims are coming in in great number, an<l will soon reach thousands in number; tb.at the amendment is necessary, an<l the law iLelf is not repugnant to the idea that the-gentleman has as to repealing sections of the espionage act, which has to do with pos ible control of speech and matters relatiYe to newspaper publications, an<l hence may not be necessary now that the war emergency is past. But I want the gentleman to understand, if I am capable of making hifn understand, that this provision is not one that could be repealed, because it is essentially a peace provi.: ion, aml the necessity i-s greater now than when the war existed. To my mind the entire section 1 should remain, as well as this athlition being made to it. The Secretary of State say that in the matter of commerce between foreign nations an<l the United State::; there are a great number of claims now, :md the State Department claims that it must really have this protection as to the accut·acy of the claims.

·It is merely n provision that whoever hall \·Hifully present to the Department of: State any false or untrue ·tatement ~,·ith intent to influence its ·action . hall come within the purview of -the other provisions of the bill.

.. _ · , CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· ·HOUSE. f. -

~ Mr. MOORE of Pennsylvania. I am frank to say that if it should come in here as an independent war measure, standing on its own merits, I sl;wuld support it, but I am not going to encourage the increase of war provisions in the various ueparttnents, nor shall I agree to increase war legislation which embarrasses the people of this country, much of which may have to be repealed, when there is an easier way to get this sort of legislation.

.Mr. GARD. That of which I am trying to convince the gentleman is that this act is not a war measure, but for the absolute protection of the Department of State and the people of the United States in a time of peace. Whether some other parts of ;tlle espionage act may be repealed, that is another question, but .this is not such an act, because, if the gentleman will look through section 1, there is nothing there which he will see should be. repealed, because it all applies as much to the time of peace as to the time of war. Because the gentleman is not ln favor, I assume, of any law which would permit any untrue or false statement or affidavit to be filed with the intention to secure action by the Secretary of State without some prohibtion or penalty being attached thereto.

Mr. MOORE of Pennsylvania. I appreciate the argument the gentleman has maue and am in sympathy with what he is trying to <lo, but I think it should be done in anothei· \\-ay. Therefore I object. , 1\fr. GARD. 1\fr. Speaker, before the objection is announceu, may I have the privilege of extenuing my remarks in the iREconn :'o as to include the printing of the letter of the Secretary 'of State to me; also a letter from the Secretary of State to Mr. w~? .

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Ollio asks unanimous consent to extenu his remarks in the RECORD. Is there objection?

There was no objection. The letters referred to are as follows:

Jlon. WAnnEs GArtD, House of Representatives:

DErAllT.MEXT OF1

STATE, Wa-shington, JanuartJ 30, 1919.

· SIR: I have the honor to a cknowledge the receipt of your letter of January 23, 1919, in which, with ref~rence. to II. R. 9094. a bill ·to amend section 1 of. Title VIII of the espionage act, approved .Tune 15 1.917, you s tate that on the 20th instant, upon consideration of the Calen~ dar for unanimous Consent, the bill was objected to by Mr. MooRE of Pennsylvania on the ground that it was intended as a war measure and is no long('r n eces ary. You state that :rou had the bill retained on the Calendar for nanimous Consent (for which action the department is :most appreciative) and request that you be advised of the present necessity for passage of the proposed legislation.

In reply I beg to inform :vou that the bill is in no sense to be consided war legislation. The purpose of the bill is, as indicated therein, to provide a penalty for the willful maldng of sworn false representations to the department, or the presentation of such false representa. tions to the department, by pet·sons purporting to be entitled to the diplomatic protection of this Go>ernment, for the purpose of infinencinJ.r the action of the department with respect to their interests as regards foreign Governments. Requests of this character are of constant occur~·ence both during peace and the existence of a state of war. The principal cases in whicli such legislation would serve a useful purpose are those having to <lo with diplomatic claims against foreign Gov(!rnments, in which the interposition of this department is requested.

While the war was in progress action on all claims against enemy Governments and, to a certain extent, action on claims against belllg

' ('rent Governments generally was. by necessity of the case, suspended. •Now that the war is practically over the claims resulting therefrom. as well as those held in abe:vancc on account thereof, are being received in large numbers an<l will doubtless reach several thousand within a short time.

In this connection I beg to inclose for your information a copy of my lett<'r of December 13 to Representative WEBB regarding the urgent n ePd of the proposed law. .

I am pleased to note your interest in the matter and I hope that you may t'lse your influence with a view to bringing about the early pass.age of the bill by the House.

I have the honor to be, sir, Your obedient servant, FnAKK L. POLK,

Acti11g S ec-r etan1 of State.

lion. · EDWIN Y. 'VEBD, DECEMBER 13, 1918.

House of R c1n-esentati1:es. MY DEAR Mn. WEBB : I am taking the liberty of again calling to :vour

attention II. R. 9094, which was introduced by you on January 22 ·last and which, a ccording to the department's information, is now on the House Calendar.

The purpose of the bill, as you will recall, is to amend section 1 of Title VIII of the espionage act, approved June 15, 1917, by providing a penalty for the willful making of sworn false representatious to the D epa rtment of State or for the prest'ntation of such false r epresentations to the department for the purpose of influencing its action with resp ect to t he diplomatic protection of the interests of such persons as regards foreign Governments.

The need s of s11ch legislation were pointed out to you in the departm ent's lett<'r of May 20, 1918, and are set forth in Report No. 667 of .Tune 18, 1918, of the Committee on the .Judiciary. It seems unnecessary to add :PDYthing to what has already been said respecting the purposes to be served by the proposed legislation other than to say that the reasons heretofore advanced in support of the bill are now becoming most urgent. Owing to the present prospects for peace, tliolomatic claims against foreign Governments, in the settlement of which the

LVII--167

department's assistance is sought, arc being received daily in in crca.sin~ numbers.

As has been previously pointed out, there is at the present time no provision of law defining as an offense the making of false representations . under oath to the Secretary of State by persons seeking the interposition of the department in connection with their claims against foreign Governments. Since such claims may lead to negotiations and representations of a serious nature, and since the department must .rely in great measure upon the statements made by interested parties, i. e., the claimants themselves, it. is highly important that such statements should be safeguarded as much as possible against falsification. ·

I therefore hope that you may find 1t possible to bring about the early consideration and passage by the House of this much-needed proposed legislation.

I am. my dear ·Mr. WEBB, Very sincerely. yours, FI!AXK L. PoLK,

ADDING LA.:r\D TO WYOMING NATIO~AI, FOREST .

The next business on the Calendar for Unanilnous Consent was the bill (S. 1847) to authorize the audition of certain land to the ·wyoming National Forest.

The Clerk read the title to the bill. The SPEAKER. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The

Chair hears none. This bill i!:: on the Union Calendar. 1\fr. 1\IONDELL. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that

the biH ·may be considered in the House as in Committee of the Whole.

The SPEAKER. Is there objection? There was no objection. The Clerk read the bill, as follows: Be it enacte<Z, etc. That any lands within the following-describ<'ll

areas, found by the ~ecretary of Agriculture to be chiefly valuable for the production of timber or the protection of stream flow, may be included within and made ·a part of the Wyoming National Forest by proclamation of the President, said lands to b~ thereafter subject to all laws affecting national forests: .All of township 29 north, range 118 west; all of townshi8 29 north. range 119 west; sections 5, 6, 7, 8, 17. 18, 19, 20, 21, 28. 2 , 30, 31. 32, and 33, township 30 north, range 118 west; all of township 30 north. range 119 west; sections 7, 18, 19, 30, 31, and west half of section 32, township 31 · north, range 118 west ; sections 19 to 36. inclusive, township 31 north, range 119 west; nil of the sixth principal meridian, Wyoming.

With the following committee amendment: On page 1, line 6, after the word ".may," insert "with the approYal

of the Secretary of the Interior." · The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend

ment. The amendment was ngree<l to. The SPEA_KER. The question is on the third reading of the

Senate bill as amended. The bill was oruered to be ren(l a third time, was reau Uw

third time, and passed. On motion of :Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado, a motion to reconsider

the Yote by which the bill was passed ,\'as laid on the table.

BRIDGE ACROSS RED RIYER OF THE NORTH, -. DAK. AND MI~N •

The next business on the Calendar for Unanimous Consent was the bill (H. R. 13232) granting tlle consent of Congress to Traill County, N. Dak., and to Polk County, Minn., to construct a bridge across the Red River of the_ Torth.

The SPEAKER. Is there objection? There was no objection. The Clerk read the bill, as follows : Be tt enacted, etc., That the consent of Congress is hereby granted to

Traill County, N.Dak., and Polk County, Minn., and their successors and assigns, to construct, maintain, and operate a brid~e and approachefl thereto across the Red River of the North, at a pomt suitable to the interests of navigation, at or near the village of Bellmont, in the county of Traill, in the State of North Dakota, in accordance with the proYisions of the act entitled "An act to regulate the construction of bridges across navigable waters," approved March 23, 1906. ·

SEC. 2. That the right to alter, amend, or repeal this act is hereby expressly reserved.

With the following amendment : Page 1, line 3 strike out all after the wor<l "the " down to an<l in

cluding the word " six," in line 2, page 2, and insert in lieu thereof thll following : " times for commencing and completing the construction of a bridge, authorized by act of Congress approved August 11, 1916, to be built across the Red River of the North <it or near the village of Bellmont, Traill County, N. Dak., are hereby extended one and three years, respectively, from the date of approval hereof."

The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amendment.

The amendment was agreed to. The SPEAKER. The question is on the engrossment an<l

third reading of the bill. The bill was ordered to be engrossed and read the third time

was read the third time, ·and passed. ' 'Vithout objection the title was amended to read as follO\TS:

"A bill to extend the time for the construction of a bridge acros:-J the Red River of the North, between Traill County, N. Dak. anti Polk County, Minn." '

On motion of Mr. STEE~ ERso. , a motion to reconsider the yota by which the bill \Yas passed was laic) on the table.

2624 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 3,

NATIO::s'.U. HOME FOTI DISABLED VOI~UNTEER SOLDIEnS. -expect to enter UPOii il: •till !lllOre extensively, US evidenced by t'he hlct that they are asking :for $4,000,000 for the coming tiscal year.

The next business 'On the Calendar for Unanimous Consent l think there i · ome possibility 'Of complicating the situation bT. was the bjll (H. R 13294) to amend an act making nppropria- attempting to make provision for the Tehabilitation in the .soltions £m.· sundry civil -expenses of the Government for the fiscal · mer ' homes. 'J'.he main provisions <frf the bill are most excellent. year ending J:une 30, 1916, and for otller purposes, approved There is now room in the soldiers' homes for about 7,000 addi, March 3 1915. tiona! inmates. .A few of the discharged soldiers -are alre:.u:ly in The SPEAKER. I · there objection. th h h d

l\1r. STAFFORD. l\Ir. "Speaker, I'eserving the l'ight to object, e omes-that is, soldiers discharged w o have been engage in the late war-and t~e is room for 7,QOO more. ·

I :wjsh to inquire as to the nature of the nuthorizntion ns carried Mr. GARD. Mr. Speak-er, will the gentleman yield? in the la._ t provi ·o, empowering the Board of Managers of the ll.fr. MONDELL. In a moment. If this simply meant that the National Home to clas ify the memberships of such homes for board would make some simple provision fur occupation for the the purpose of administration, and to utilize eertain branches men in the homes, I do not know that there will be any objectiou exclusively for ;rehabilitation of the disabled soldiers. to it. T.he.J.·e would ·be .an objection to lt, it . eems to me, if, 1n

Mr. GARD: Mr. Speaker, I will say to the gentleman t:hat nddition to the !fery extensive and -all-embracing work cQf the this nmendment to which the gentleman ~all· attention w.as in- ' board .havlngJ:!ehabilitation matters in charge, we should "embark corporated by the action of the Committee '<>n clilita~y Aifairs. upon a eo.nNiderable activity along this line in connection with It was no part of the text of the bill, as introduced .by me, and the soldiers' homes. H was the thought of the Committee on Military Affairs, which Mr. GARD. I will tate o far as 1 am advised by members of J1Ut this amendment on unaninlously, :tha.t these National Home-· the board of manager and members ()f the War Department, the for Disabled Volunteer Soldiers were facing a new .and >enlarged Secretary of War, and by members of the Committee on Military :iurisdi,ction, that with the probability of an increase of the Affairs that there is no purpose to do ·anything exceJ)t to afford membership caused by the disabled soldiers of the present war, for these men, · who will be necessarily brought in by reason of and the increased number that would be admitted under the physical disabilities, the privilege ·of 'CloJr.ag some slight task or provision of the original bill, the homes should be ·changed from performing some bit of labor with the hands or with the head their type of being merely a place where .men lived to a place which will result in their b·eing in .Part self-sustaining. 'Where they might receive care and treatment commensurate Mr. 1\IONDELL. or COUl'Se, there is rery considerable oppor* with their needs, and where. to the extent prescribed by the tunity for that. ·ort of thing in the .home nowf partic1.1lar)y in 'board of manager , certain proces ·es of rehabilitation might be ' an agricultural way? gone through with. Mr. GARD. Ye .

l\11'. STAFFORD. Doe the gentleman know whether th~t · l\.fr. MONDELL. That i gi>en t'<> them because mo~t of them . uggestion has been submitteli to the ecretar~· of War for b1s nave very .con iderable farm. connected with them that furnish ideas? . . such facilities.

M.r. 'GARD. I do not know whether it has been submitted. · Mr. GARD. I am sure, as was wen said by the gentleman I will state this to the gentleman, that some two or three wee~ ft·om Kansas, that there is to be a new tYDe of man in tne gov*· ago I talked with the Secretary of War about this bill, and er,nmenbtl military homes. Heretofore the man who was a memubout matters relative to the board of managers, and the Secre- ber of a soldiers' home was 'ivell along in years. He was forced tary of W'ar said that he was firmly of opinion that these : by adyerse circumstances into the home neces arJly, and .could homes ought to be used in the largest scope .vossible, and that . not nor was It proper that .he should be compelled to do .any he saw as the best future of the l1ome places of rehabilitation manual labor, nor was it proper at the time that compulsion for the soldiers wherever they could be used for that .purpo e, should be had, but where the man is able to do .a slight physical and such as could be used for that purpose, with the incorpora- . task :and i paid for the same, 1t has occulTed to me, as it has tion of additional facilitie ·, should be used. This amendment, to the Committee on Military Affairs, that this is a yery wi · I think, was inspired largely in committee by the gentleman solution of a most pressing question for the conduct of the homes f1·om Kansas [Mr. ANTHONY]. Certainly he was · one of its in the very nea.T futm·e. No appropriation · asked and no sum principal proponents. of money has been. stated for any 'PUrpose. It is merely au-

Ur. STAFFORD. My query was predicated largely upon thority to increase the efficiency .of the horne. the work we are doing in rehabilitation under the Board of . ~Mr. SLOAN. Mr. Speaker, fm·ther rP.serving the right to ,Vocational Education, and I was wondering whether ·the activi- object as I understand t.his does not in anywise seek to amend ties of that board would not include the rehabilitation of our by extension or diminution the pre ent management of the disabled soldiers. Again the Army rehabilitation wo.rli: is pro- home ? \'ided for under the Surgeon General's office, but t1lat work 1s 1\Ir. GARD. No; there i · no exten ion or cha.nge in the limited to those in the service. · proce of management. The bill primarily relates to the privi-

Mr. GARD. Ye ; for illschnrg~<l oldiers. lege of admission as a member of t.he home. . l\lr. STAFFORD. We are all in sympathy with Ute idea of Mr. SLOAl . And In no wise .seeks to interfere with t.he in-

J)ermitting the pre. ent homes to be used by discharged soldiers eumbency of the homes as they are now organized--of the present war. Mr. GARD. Not the slightest.

Mr. GARD. I think so. l\Ir. SLOAN. And as I understand, the ;purpose is largely to ~lr. ANTHONY. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yiel<l? rutilize . the vacant pace and fa·cilities for the keep, ca1·e, and 1\fr. GAnD. Yes. treatment of soldiers by the inclusion of soldiers of this wa-r as l\Ir. ANTHONY. The point is this.; Heretofore the soldiers well as the volunteer soldier of the two prec ding wars?

homes have been :filled with men of mature years, for which l\1r. GARD. Tllnt is true; and, I may ·tate, to include also there was very little left in life except that they might be JU'O- soldiers who were on the border in Mexico and who were en.vide<l with a comfortable living. After this war t.hese home~ will · gaged in mmtary ervices for the United tate· which coultl be filled with a lot of young men, men who should be fitted to not be classed as a war. For instance, there are u number. of go back into civil life of the country, if it is possible to do so. concret-e eases 'Of men injured while they were protecting the

l\lr. STAFFORD. What is the work now undertaken .by the border in Me~"ico, acting as United State soldiers while not in Board -of Vocational Education? w.ar, who, nn{ler the pre e11t stah1te governing admission to

l\lr. ANTHONY. I do not 'lmow as to that, but the work in the e homes, can not by the board. of managers be admitted, the soldiers' homes, as € plained to me by a member of the Boa.rd no matter .how disable<l they may be, no matter how meriof Managers, . 'iYill not be \ery elaborate. They \Vill take these torious the individual ca e. It is merely to extenu the u e of men and try to teach t.hem some simple occupation and fit them tbe e homes wherever it is ,Pl"Oper and give a.ssistance to every to make their own way in life wherever 11ossible. They do n{)t man who has borne .arms in an American battle and wllo :is intend to go into an elaborate seheme of rehabilitation. :diSabled by disease · or wounds from tah'i.ng care of him. elf. I

1\Ir. GARD. To malce them in part self-sustaining. am in favor at all times of providing all proper assistance and 1\Ir. ANTHONY. The purpose is eithm: to maintain them in ~relief to all American · oldiers.

iillene s in the e homes or else to give tl1em a chance to e tal>- l\Ir. SLOAN. A o expre e<l, I think it i an a<lmirabl li. ll themselves in industry. · provi ion; but I would like further to ask whethm.· or not it i ·

1\!r. :MONDELL. l\Ir. Speaker, will the gcntl t'.lllan yield? contemplated that tbe work suggested by the ponsor of the l\Ir. GARD. Ye ·. · ·bill t.he gentleman from Ohio, that member. would in anym ·e The SPEAKER. Is there objection? be ~·equirecl to work or merely that the indh·idual person, if l\Ir. l\10NDELL. Mr. Speaker, reservjng the ~right .to object, be de ired to get ·ome ~compensation, cau :wail him elf of tile

the board J1aving charge of tile work of rchal>illiation of soldiers opportunity presented? • ha a .current approprlation of. $2;000,000, of iWhich they have 1\fr. GABD. The1· i. no rh:l.llge in the requir ment. Tiley eA-pended, as I recall, some two or thr e hundred. thousand dol- arc not required now. It is simply affording a privilege, belar . They are entering on this work very extensively. and cause I esteem it per onally to be a privilege ~ather than a.

1919. .CONGR.ESSION AL RECORD-HOUSE. 2625 - •• i

requirement of these men who might be forced by circum- · stances :mtl ha>e to go into the home, that they might do some ; little task and be paicl for it and become in part self-sustaining. : It is a great matter of preserYing his self-respect, and it is ; better for the soldiers and for society in general that they have some occupation in which they can engage. .

1\fr. SLOAN. I haye no doubt wlmtever all in the homes so located as they are would be willing to have this privilege · extended, but there is undoubtedly, as I said in another matter bearing somewhat to it, a natural jealousy in the homes the Government has established for them. They are willing to share it, but they do not desire to abdicate or surrender.

1\lr. GARD. I think the- purpose of the bill and the amendments are all, indeed, meritorious, because, as I have stated, they carry no new law and because they only twovide for the Yery best administration of these soldiers' homes for every disabled ·American soldier.

1\lr. SLOAN. I withdraw the reservation. · l\1r. DYER. 1\Ir. Chairman. reserving the right to object, I

hope an opportunity will be had to consider this measure. I -would not objeet, but I am opposed to many things in connec- . tion with the home, but I haYe not the time nor can I get time lmcler this procedure, and I therefore shall ·object for the present.

l\lr. GARD. I hope the gentleman will reserve the right to object.

l\lr. DYER. I \Yould eYentually, unless the matter coulu be-

1\Ir. GARD. I would be very glau to inform the gentleman. If there is anything he has in mind he <.loes not agree with, I woulu be very glad to explain it to him. The matter; it seems to me, is so >ery clear and so manifestly intended for the benefit of the present war soldiers, Spanish War soldiers, and all soldiers--

l\fr. DYER If the gentleman would ngree in the bill to an amendment which I would like to ha>e incorporate(] in the act pertaining to the soldiers' homes. and that is to take the management of the homes out of the hands of the present managers an<l put them in (:harge of tL1e \Var Department, I would not oppose it. But I am opposed to gi>ing the present management of the soldiers' homes further authority.

l\1r. GA.RD. That is a matter so entirely at variance with tl1e principles of this bill that I could not agree to it.

1Hr. DYER. I knew the gentleman would not agree to it. I want to discuss that for tlle purpose of presenting some facts to the House that I feel are ju tilled.

:Mr. G.A.RD. If that is all the gentleman has in rnin<l, he coulLl have no objection to this bill, because if the gentleman wants the horn.es taken from the ci>il authorities who control them and put in the llands of the 'Var Department, that is entirely a different rwoposition. But wh_ile they m·e in the hands of the present board of managers, why would not the gentleman be willing to afford the present-day soldier. and soldierN of the war in which be so ably represented the GoYernment to baye the full privileges of these homes?

l\1r. D'l'ER. 'Vell, l\lr. Speaker--The SPEAKER Does the gentleman object or not? :Mr. DYER. The gentleman was asking me to resene my

objection. I do it for the purpose of making this statement, which I ha>e made to him, and to say that to adopt this proposition now would necessitate, of course, enlargements and justification for the ·oldiers' home board ' to enlarge these homes and ask Congress for additional appropriations, and I uo not belie>e at this time there is any necessity for including the present soldiers. I uo not think any of them are going to be sent to these homes.

.l\1r. GARD. If the gentleman will pardon me, there are a number ,of sol<liers of the present war in the homes now, and necessarily there ·will be more.

1\Ir. DYER. Under our allowances for those who a1~ uisabletl, and so on, I think it is unnecessary at this time to send them to these soldiers' homes, unuer the present management.

1\Ir. STAFFORD. Will the gentleman permit just there? 1\Ir. DYER. I will. 1\Ir. STAFFORD. Prior to our entering this war there \Yas

a recommendation made by the Secretary of War to _ cUscontinue the branch home locate<l in the environs of Milwaukee in the district represented by my colleague [l\fr. CARY]. Th~ accommodations a 1·e mnch lnrger than what the present demands require. Now, as the gentleman from Ohio [l\1r. G.Aim] says, there are going to be nny number of instances of boys returning from nbroncl \Yho "ill need the accommouations of that home and the otlle1· branch homes, where they are not taxed to cnpacit;r. I tllink tile opportunity should be given them to lla>e the privllege of entering these homes just as the soldiers of the Spanish-American War and the Philippine insurrection and the Civil War haYe- the privilege~

1\fr. DYER. I would not object, probably, if we hnu opportunity, as I said, to consider the matter, \\·hich \ye haYe not under unanimou!5 consen!'.

11Jr. 1\IOKDELL. Will the gentleman yiel<l jus·t a moment? l\11·. DYER. Yes. , l\Ir. 1\IONDELL. . 'Ve heard the managers of the soldiers'

homes the other day before the Committee on Appropriations, and, having in mind the present situation, we discussed with them at >ery considerable length _ this matter of admitting the soldiers of the present foreign war in the homes. As a matter of fact, tlley are now admitted. They are of the opinion they haYe authority to admit them. There are several hundreds of them in the homes at this time. There is room for between 7,000 and 7,500 additional irnnntes in the various soldiers' homes, without crowding in the least, r.nd utilizing them in a way in which the soldiers \Yill all be >ery comfortable. These world-war soldiers ought to haYe an opportunity to enter those homes. The homes are running, ancl they are running under good management. The facilities nre all there . . It requires no further outlay of the public · money to gi>e them these oppor, tunfties. We certainly ougllt to fill those homes with thes~ rehn·ning soldiers as they may desire to enter the homes. The board of managers has consiuercd the matter fully. They have had no other thought than that the soldiers would be given the facilities of the homes.

1\fr. D"l"ER. The geutleman kuows that we passe<l the bili here the other day for _ $10,000,0:)0 nn<l more for the purpose of E'St::i.blishing auditional llo~pitals fo1· tl1e care of those who nee<l hospital t reatment.

l\lr. 1\IOXDELL. 'Ihat is quite a different proposition. l\lr. DYER. And we also haYe in the 'Var Department--· 1\Ir. 1\IO~DELL. That is quite a different .proposition. As-

suming the necessity of building hospitals for discharged sol: diers because of tuberculosis or other diseases we have now, at this hour, splendid institutions in which there is room for 7,000 of those soldiers. A.re "·e going to deny those soldiers the opportunity to enter these excellent institutions now being maintained and appropriated for?

1\Ir. DYER. On the theory, I will say to the gentleman, that the sol<li~rs' homes ·are . not the place to send men who need hospital treatment. It is nothing more nor less than a place for soldiers to go to who l1ave not anywhere else to go, and who want to spend possibly tllC rest of their days there. It is goocJ for the old soldiers, but I am not in favor of opening th<"se homes nn<l encouraging these boys who are coming back to go to these homes, instead of getting them out into the vocations they went from, and go to work-those who are able to work. We do not want to encourage them simply to li>e in these homes v;rithout any opportunity for their advancement. The Government is pre1Jared to take care of all these people i.vho need treatment, get them well, cure them, and put them out into business. For that reason, 1\fr. Speaker, I am not ready at this time to encourage these boys going to these homes.

1\lr 1\IO~DELL. They are going, any\Tay. l\lr. DYER If they are going, l\fr. Speaker, if the board of

managers say they haYe the authority now, and are doing what tlw gentleman from Wyoming says, whether they are usurping authority or not, there is no need for legislation for their doing that. And if that is so, in audition to other reasons, I am opposed to the present management of the soldiers' homes.

If the gentleman will agree to that--l\1r. GARD. I ha>e 1:0 objection to the gentleman offering

the amendment. · l\lr. STAFl!'ORD. This proposition is limited to those who are disabled by wounds and diseuse and incapable of earning a living. It is to pro>itle a home for such persons who may have both legs off or both arms off and who ha>e passed the stage of hospital treatment. But there should be some place where they may haYe a home.

1\.fr. DYER. l thought the gentleman knew that we had appropriated money to giye men arms and legs and to teach them h·ndes in which they can support themselves. ·

l\fi·. S'IAFFOHD. This is to proYide for those \vho ha>e not a home.

1\fr. DYER. I doubt the correctness of that statement. 1\:Ir. STAFFORD. There are numbers of persons who ha>e

been totally disabled who are maintained there: l\1r. DYER. The GoYernment should giye them sufficient

money to support themselves, so that they can be with their families.

1\Ir. STAFFORD. 'Ve compen!';ate them unuer the war-risk insurnnce. but if they haYe no families to profille a horne for them we wish to pro>ide a home aml where they will have their comrades about them. -

1\fr. l\10:NDELL. Let ·me ma-l.:e a statement. The board in charge of the rehabilitation of returning. soldiers was before

2626 CONGR.ESSIONilL RECOI~.D-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 3,

tile Committe on Appropriations a few days ago an<l told us wllat tiley were doing in great detail. Tiley told us what they expected to do.

Het·e is a situation in connection with their 'Tork, in which tile soldier ·' home sen·e a most useful purpose and will sen·e a most useful purpo ·e. It takes some little time for these soldiers who are di able<l to ha\e their cases adjudicated before the War lli k Bureau. It requires some little time in many ca es for the rehabilitation board to get in contact ·with the men and learn just what they desire to have clone for them and to determine what is best to do for them, what school or institution they would attend. In the meantime, if the opportunity is given to the men to enter the soldiers' homes and be cared for there they will have a comfortable· place while their cases are being adjudicated by the War Risk Board and while the committee on rehabilitation is studying theie cases and arranging for their tuition in some school where they can acquire .that education or that training which will be helpful to them .

. The soidiers' homes work right in with th~t sort of thing. The rehabilitation board keeps track of these men. They me not always ready when they me discharged from the service to enter upon the courses of study which the board outlines or suggests to them. In the meantime the soldiers' homes should be open until there is opportunity for them to be cared for, until their claims are adjusted and an opportunity is given to provide for their training.

1\lr. Mc~~ZIE. 1\fr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? , 1\fr. STAFFORD. Yes. . · Mr. McKENZIE. Under our law i there any institution in bur country where a soldier such as you hn.Ye described could find a home? •

Mr. MONDELL. No. And this is the fact, tn!t the Rehabilitation Board told us of cases where soldiers had been discharged without being paid. I hope there will be no more case · of that kind. There are and will be many case where the amount that the 'soldier is entitled to for disabilil'y has not yet been determined, and they found such soldiers in many cases to be real1y objects of charity.

Mr. DYER. And that is a disgrace to the United States Government.

Mr. M:O~TDELL. It i ·; and tl1e gentleman proposes to keep closed the only door that we are prepared to open in order to prevent the recmTence of that sort of thing. I do not think the gentleman wants to take the responsibility of doing that.

l\1r. DYER. The gentleman is mistaken. I do not think the gentleman correctly understands the character of the soldiers' homes and present conclitions and does not look at the situation from the true standpoint, as he ought to look at it, with reference to those soldier· who are coming back disabled. We have provided money for them, and the Government is authorized to give these men enough money to support them. We provided vocational chools for them in order that they may learn useful artR and trades· and go out and eru·n a living for themselves, and to put them in ol<liers' home until" the end of their days would be a discredit to the Nation~

1\1r. CANNOX Mr. Chairman, w·ill the gentleman yield? . 1\lr. DYER. Ye .

1\Ir. C'AJ\"'NON. If I under tand the gentleman's remarks, he would not object if an amendment were adopted to transfer the management to the War Department?

1\Ir. DYER. If that i agreed to by the gentleman in clmrge of the bill--

l'llr. CAl""NON. The gentleman can offer an amenuiL-ent and let the House pa upon it.

Mr. DYER. There will be no opportunity to discu ·s it. 1\ofr. GANNON. There will be opportunity to ill ·ens. it under

1lle five-minute rule, and I have no doubt that such time as the gentleman may desire .will be conceded to him.

Mr. GARD. I shall be very glad to concede any reasonable time that the gentleman wants, o far as I am concerned.

Mr. CANNON. I think something ought to be done in the matter, either by referring it to the ·war Department or withut referring it. There is this >acant space in these homes un

occupied. •lr. D1.'ER. If the gentleman will permit me, the othee

day we had a bill up here to take from the Board of 1\lanagers of the Soluiers' Homes the Battle Mountain Sanitarium, and turn it over to tlte War Department for the care of men who nre in need of care and attention, and thi Hou:e voted it clown. It ought not to have <lone so, in my judgment. ·

1\fr. l\IONDELL. That was for· soldier before they were illscharged . . That i quite anofue.:r thing. Thi i · for the care of 1i char:.cd soldi · · ·. - That bill ought.. to h:1 'e- P~ ed, but. that ' does not affect thi· sihmtion ~tall. This i a proposition - to take caTc of tile soldim· :li-ter hi:s t.li charge, auu the 'Var De-

partment, let m .mgg st to the gentlemau, hn. no control over the ..,oltlier after his tlischarg .

1\lr. DYER. \Ve appropriateu $10 000,000 to take care of men !lfter their di charge.

1\lr. :JUOXDELL. \Ve llaYe an appropriation of 2,000,000 to take care of men and rehabilitate tb rn. Tllis works right in with it. Thi · giYe. men an opportunity to r main in the home,_, if they care to, while the War Ri k Board is determining the amount due them anu the Rehabilitation Bom·u i. 'tudying their ca es.

Mr. DYER. Oh, uo. Mr. 1\lONDELL. There is nothing in the bill compelling them

to go there, but they may go if we pass this bill. Mr. 1\~'N. 1\Ir. Speaker, I call for the regular order. The SPEAKER. The regular order L·, Is ttero o jection? ;· Mr. DYER. I object. -=l The SPEAKER The rrentleman from ~Ii omi objects. The

Clerk \\ill report the ne:\.1: bill .

ROCKY" liiO ~TAI~ NATIO~ AL P.\BK.

Tile next lm ·ine son the Calendar for Unanimous Con ent was the bill (H. R. 171) to repeal the la t proviso of ection 4 of an act to establi h the Rocky Mountain National Park, in the State of Colorado, nnd for other purpose. , approYeu January 26, 1915.

The Clerk read the title of the bill. The SPEAKER. Is there objection? 1\fr. FOSTER Reserving the 1·ight to object, I take it ilie

purpose of this bill is to get a larger appropriation for this park?

1\Ir. TIMBERLAKE. That i the ultimate object, of course but it will not be sought to get a larger appropriation this year: It is \ery much de ired to haYe the limitation removeu, becans if that were done we would be enabled to get a great many local subscription· to supplement the large appropriations that have been made by the Legislature of Colorado this year for the improvement of this park. It is not contem,platecl to ask an additional appropriation for the park this year.

Mr. 1\IONDELL. May I ~ uggest to the gentleman from Illi· nois that the Committee on Appropriation , which appropriate· for the parks, has been considering the Rocky Mountain National Park in connection with the matter of improvement of road , and so forth. As a member of tl1e committee, I am of the opinion tilat this limitation ought to be removed. If my opinion is that of the committee-and I think it i -I do not think the committ e will be uispo ed to add anything to tha appropriation thi year, but I do think we can,not well ma.intain these appropriations permanently within the $10,00 and do ju tice to that park..

:i\lr. FOSTER How murl1 does the gentleman lliink it will take to do justice to the park?

Mr. MONDELL. I have no particular sum in mincl. · Personally, I would not be in favor of increa ing the appropriation n dollar this year, but possibly somewhat next year.

Mr. CANNON. Where is the Rocky Mountain National Park? Me. l\IONDELL. It is due west of DenYer in the mountain ·.

It is in what is known a the E te · Pai·k region of olorado, n very beautiful mountain region.

Mr. CAifNON. Is it between Denver and heyenne? Mr. 1\.:fONDELL. No'; it i ve1·y nearly <lne west ft·om

Deme1·. Mr. CANNOr-. How far? 1\fr. Tll\IBERLAKE. Tbe entranc 'to the park i · about 'i

miles from Dem-er, and it extend over to Grand Lake in the we tern portion of the State of Colorado. It include Longs Peak and the principal mountain peaks in that locality, of which there are a great number that are more than 12,000 feet high.

1\Ir. CA..."NNO ... T. What area docN the park cover? 1\Ir. TAYLOH of Colorado. A little more than 229,000 acres. 1\lr. FOSTER. I nm informed that it covers a little more thau

229,000 acres. I am going to withdraw my re n·ation of objection.

Mr. CA.i'\'NOr T. I should 1ik to kno\v a little more a bon it. It inCludes mountains and valleys am1 that ort of thing?

l\Ir. Tll\IBERL.\KE. All that cllaracter of mountain s e.nery. Some of the most lJeautif-nl seen ry that is fotuHl any· wber in the Rocky Mountains i ·· witllin the boundarie. of this park.

Mr. C.M\~ON. Tllere i in the air nn appropriation of $100,· 000,000 to improv.e lands. for om· solt.lje~· t live upon, to get cut-over lttnd:~, and. to g t lands ilia are . a an<loned in , T w York, aud so on. With nil the parks we luw f <loes the g ntleman think it is a good time to establish another one?

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECOR.D-HOUSE. 262~.-. ~ . -

Mr. TIMBERLAKE. This does not establish a new park. It was established four years ago. There was a limitation on the appropriation that could be made for its improvement to make it accessible.

Mr. CANNON. That is $10,000 a year? Mr. TIMBERLAKE. That is $10,000 a year, and this bill

is simply to remove that inhibition. We are not asking for an additional appropriation now.

l\Ir. CANNON. No; but it is to ask an additional appropriation at the next session?

Mr. TIMBERLAKE. It is contemplated, of course, that the Government will want to improve and make accessible this T'ery \aluabl~ park from which the Government, when this is done, will derive a very great revenue.

Mr. CANNON. How? Mr. TIMBERLAKE. By concessions and charges that are

m,ade in connection with the supervision of the park. Mr. CANNON. We are going to be bone dry pretty soon,

and concessions to keep hotels and bars will not be worth much. Mr. TIMBERLAKE. That will be eliminated, and conse

quently will reduce the revenues somewhat, perhaps, but there are many othm· methods of collecting revenues.

Mr. CANNON. How many million dollars will it cost to develop this park, to build the _highways to get in, to construct that' 70 miles of road, and so on? You see, we are Iich in parks. God knows, I do not know, how many we have now.

1\fr. 1\fONDELL. Sixteen. ' 1\fr. CANNON. Is that all? ~ Mr. TIMBERLAKE. The Legislature of Colorado have ap· propriated this year $70,000 for the completion of the Fall River Road, which has been in process of construction since this park .was organized four years ago, and it has appropriated $90,000 for the completion or improvement of the Thompson Road, showing that the people of the State of Colorado are supplementing the efforts of t11e Government in making these improvements, which will make this wonderful landscape of scenic beauty, which even Switzerland and her Alpine scenery does not equal, ac· ces~ ible to the people who visit this park. Over 117,000 people visited this park last year. What can we not expect when it shall be improved by the building of roads and trails which .will permit of its exploration and which can be accomplished with a little more liberal appropriation, which the removal of this limitation will later permit of? And in my judgment it ,...-ould be shortsighted in the Government not to do it. It will ouly be improving her own property, which "ill in the end bring into the Treasury substantial revenues.

1\lr. CANNON. The efforts of the Government are limited to $10,000 under the law, and now $70,000 and $90,000 have been appropriated to iinprove roads. How many hundreds of thousands of dollars is it going to take to develop this when it comes to unloading it all on the Government?

Mr. TIMBERLAKE. Having discussed this frequently with the Interior Department and with Superintendent Mathers, supervisor of parks, I can say that it is not the intention of the department to expend any large sum in any one year, but they feel that their appropriation should be a little larger in order to open up trails, telephone lines, and make it accessible to the people.

Mr. CANNON. My observation has been that in the Yellow· stone Park, and in the Glacier National Park, and the great park in California, and in our 16 parks scattered all over the .country, there has been a good deal of money expended. I hate to object; at the same time-

1\fr. TIMBERLAKE. I hope the gentleman will not object; this is a proposition of a great deal of merit.

Mr. CANNON. At the same time, God knows we have come to the time when we have got to economize.

Mr. TIMBERLAKE. I assure the gentleman t11at I will agree to that, but we do not feel that we ought to be discriminated against. Other parks that have been organized have been privileged to expend whatever receipts they had from concessions in the management and development of the park, which of all our parks was the first that was not given this concession.

1\lr. 1\.IONDELL. I think it will please the gentleman from Illinois to know that we are now receiving from some of the larger national parks a sum varying from 23 to 30 per cent of the annual expenditures.

Mr. CANNON. That is, the parks pay about one-quarter of the expense.

Mr. MONDELL. In some cases nearly one-third. ' Mr. CANNON. In some cases, and the balance the Government pays in perpetuity.

1\lr. MONDELL. That is better than for the Government to pay it all. ·

Mr. CANNON. But there is only $10,000 on the Go-rernment now in this particular case.

Mr. MONDELL. And there being oniy $10,000 on the Government in this particular case we are unable to impro-re the park in order to .obtain anything more from automobile licenses. and so forth.

l\1r. CANNON. But in round numbers we have $200,000 ap-propriated by the Colorado Legislature.

Mr. LOBECK. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. TIMBERLAKE. I yield. Mr. LOBECK. The remarks of the gentleman from illinois

prompt me to ask the question whether any farm lands are lying in this park which would be fit for agricultural land to be located on by the soldiers?

Mr. TIMBERLAKE. I am glad the gentleman asked that question. There are no agricultural lands or lands suitable for · agriculture within the confines of this park.

1\Ir. LOBECK. Scarcely a little valley? Mr. TIMBERLAKE. No little valley that would justify a

person making a homestead entry. If they took one it would be for the purpose of having a home and capitalizing it for its scenic beauty. The elevation is too high.

Mr. LOBECK. I have been in that park and I noticed that where they sowed oats they did not ripen.

The SPEAKER. Is there objection? 1\Ir. CANNON. I do not feel like standing out and prevent

ing the House from considering the bill, but I ha-re my doubts as to whether I am performing my duty.

There was no objection. The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the bill. The Clerk read the bill, as follows: Be it enacted, etc., That the last proviso of section 4 of an act en

titled "An act to establish the Rocky Mountain National Park, in tbc State of Colorado, and for other purposes," approved January 26, 1915, which is in the words and figures following: "Provided, That no appropriation for the maintenance, supervision, or improvement of said park in excess of $10,000 annually shall be made unless the same shall have first been expressly authorized by law," be, and the same is hereby, repealed.

l\Ir. MANN. Mr. Speaker, I did not object to the considera· tion of this bill, and I am glad to vote for its passage. I do not think the limitation of $10,000 slloUld have been put in the bill, in the first place. But there is tbis· peculiar condition. Gentlemen come heTe, and in this case gentlemen and ladies, and ask Congress to create a national park. The man most acti...-e in connection with the agitation was a gentleman whose name I do· not now recall, located at Estes Park. In the consideration of that measure, and there was some opposition to it, Congress finally gave unanimous consent and approval to it by an agreement that the amount asked for any years should not exceed $10,000. Congress passed the bill on the supposition that the. cost of the park could not exceed $10,000 a year, if anybouy objected to a greater amount. But, like everything else of the sort, just as soon as the bil'l became a law people who had agreed to the limitation, in order to get the- bill passed, forgot their good faith, as it seemed to me, and commenced to agitate to have the limitation, which they had agreed to, repealed, so that they could get more money. Having stated to Congress that we "will ask for a park that will only cost $10,000 a year," and having gotten from Congress the creation of a park on the supposition that it would only cost $10,000 a year, they at once started to have the limitation removed.

There may have been good reasons for that. I . was not in favor of putting the limitation on in the first instance. Any· body who knew anything about the conditions there knew that they could not maintain a park properly at an expense to the General Government for $10,000. These people knew it as well as I did, only I had the good faith to say that I was not in favor of putting any limitation on it, and then they turn around and do not keep good faith.

Mr. TAYLOR of Cplorado. 1\Ir. Chairman, I feel that a word of explanation is proper at this time in response to the remarks of the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. l\I.ANN], as I was the ::mthor of the original Rocky Mountain National Park bill and reported it from the Public Lands Committee to the House and had charge of it on the floor at the time of its passage. As everyone who was , present at that time knows, there was a clause in the bill, the way it was reported out, providing that all the revenue derived from the use of automobile licenses and other concessions for the ·use of the park should go to the revenue of and for that park. The gentleman from Kentucky, the distinguished chairman of the Committee on Appropriations .[1\Ir. SHERLEY], was on the :floQr, and he cont~nded that it was an illogical or improper policy for the revenue derived from any particular park to go to and be expended in that park. His idea was the revenues from all the national parks should go into the general fund and be expenued

2628 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 3 ' ---------------------------------------------.-----------~------------------~----------

where they would do the most good. It was-on his motion that that provision was stricken out. When we were discussing the $10,000-a-year expense limitation, which I may say_ was also put in by the gentleman from Kentucky, I was asked a number of questions about that limitation, and I desire to read to the House two or three questions and answers that will fully explain this matter. They are short, and I think it is due to the House and to myself that I should put this record in at this time.

I read from page 1791, volume 52, part 2, of the CoNGBESSIONAL RECORD of January 18, 1915 :

Mr. MoORE. The maintenance of it, for the first year at least, would be limited to $10,000?

Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. It is limited to $10,000 a year forever, unless Congress grants us an increase.

Mr. MoonE. Then $10,000 per annum is all you propose to ask at present?

Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. That is all until further additional appropriations are authorized by Congress. · Mr. MooRE. Would $10

1000 a year be sufficient to provide for main

tenance and take care of ruture irilprovements? Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. No; that amount is not enough; but we will

have to get along with that sum for a while, and I am in hopes that we will be allowed to also retain and use toward the improvement of the park an_ the revenues derived from automobile licenses and concessions from all sources. If we can have those receipts, I feel that we can get along without any additional appropriation for vossibly several years to come.

Mr. MoonE. The gentleman expects some revenue will lse derived from the park to make up the expenses?

l\lr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Yes, sir. Mr. Marshall and the Interior Deparbnent recommend that we be given those receipts for the maintenance and improvement of the park, especially for road and trail buildin~, and I am relying upon these recommendations and that express provlsion in this bill. I had that in mind when I reluctaJ?-tlY consented to the adopt ion by the committee of this $10,000 a year lim.itation.

That is the colloquy that took place on the floor of the House at that time. After that that provision giving this park these receipts from licenses, and so forth, was stricken out of the bill, and we have never from that day to this been given any of those revenues, notwithstanding there are thousands of automobile that go into that park every year.

1\1r. WALSH. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Yes. 1\Ir. WALSH. Repealing this limitation, how much is it ex

pected it will cost yearly? Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. That is purely a matter for the

Committee on Appropriations to determine. The State of Co_lornllo is spending a very large sum-I do not know its exact amount, but upwards of .$200,()()()-on building a magnificent highwny, a boulevard, right across through the center of the park. Wh(m we passed this bill through the House we did so with the express promise on my part that the State and the adjoining counties would build a wagon road through the park. At that time we were constructing a good, ordinary road, something like we do in the mountains, about 12 feet wide.

Mr. WALSH. That is, through the park? 1\Ir. TAYLOR of Colorado. Yes; in the park and across

through it. We were preparing and agreeing to construct that kind of a road; I have forgotten how much it would have cost, but not a very expensive road. As soon as that bill was passed the park authorities came out there and insisted that they did not want that kind of a road, and that we were bound and had agreed to build an automobile boulevard some 20 or 30 feet wide, and spend some fifteen or twenty thousand dollars a mile on it. That was not the agreement at all. We never .dreamed of any such an expenditure. But we have gone ahead with it and nearly destroyed our road fund in the State of Colorado. The Federal officials are holding us to constructing a highway that we never agreed to, never contemplated, and never have built in any place in the State. They are practically forcing us to build this road at an enormous and unwarranted expen e to our State, in order to make a highway through the park and carry -out a supposed obligation that neither I nor anyone else eve1; entered into. .

Mr. WALSH. Is it going to cost $20,000 annually or $100,000, or what will the cost be?

1\lr. TAYLOR of Colorado. I can not state what will be asked for, but the Appropriations Committee will take the report of the park officials, and they will treat Us fairly, I assume, the same as they do other parks, and give us whatever they think we ought to have. It may be $15,000 or $25,000 a year. It is not going to be an unnecessary or unreasonable amount.

Mr. WALSH. It is going to be sufficiently unreasonable that they have had this limitation repealed which heretofore we put on.

Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. 'Vhy, the Interior Department can not even properly police the park for $10,000 a year. They haYc not suffici~nt help to preserve the scenery. They have not sufficient attendants in the park to even prevent the mutilation

of the scenery. There should be attendants and guidCG everywhere, and they can not have more than one o · two nc . .w. The National Park Service needs · this additional appropriation for additional help, to build additional roads, and make a great many improvements, as well as for caring for and supervising the park and regulating the tourists through the park. They come there from all over the United States. There ate more people who go into this park every summer than go into the Yellowstone National Park.

Mr. WALSH. I think if at this time we showed a little more inclination to take care of the boys who have been battling for the country than we do for these tourists, we would be transacting public business of greater importance than to take off a limitation that we have placed upon a bill which we purposely placed there and allow the people having the thing in charge to come in and ask Congress to appropriate any amount they please. I do not believe that we should appropriate large sums of money for the purpose of making the scenery pleasant to the tourists, particularly at this time. It seems to me to be unwise. Why. does not the gentleman suggest that we raise the limit, so to speak, from $10,000 to $20,000?

1\Ir. TAYLOR of Colorado. That is what I want; but the House put this limit on me at that time.

Mr. WALSH. ·Yes; but this repeals that. Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Certainly. 'Vill the gentleman

permit me to ask him a question? Mr. WALSH. Yes.

. Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Would not the gentleman rather have the people of the United States spend their money in the United States than to go to Switzerland every year to ee scenery that is not half as good as this Rocky Mountain National Park contains; and do we not need to encourage the people of the United States to see our own country first, rather than spending hundreds of millions of dollars every year in Switzerland and other places that do not have anything like the scenic grandeur we have?

Mr. WALSH.. That is a very beautiful theory, but it does not necessarily follow Congress must remove safeguards it has heretofore placed in legislation to keep the maintenance of pleasure resorts within reasonable bounds. We are now going to say to the Secretary of the Interior that he can come here with estimates or expenditures, if you please, of $25,000.

Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Oh, no. · Mr. WALSH. Oh, well, I suppose the Secretary of the Interior and the park authorities have heard of deficiency appropriations before.

Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Well, we have all got confidence in our Appropriation Committee, and they are not going to run wild.

Mr. WALSH. People ought to have confidence in Congress, and pe9ple who haye got legislation, as the distinguished gentleman from Illinois pointed out, under the representation that they would ask for only $10,000, ought to have confidence enough in Congress when they secured that legislation not to seek immediately to wipe out the limitation that has been placed upon it.

Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. That was put in in perfect good faith on the understanding that some of these times we 'Yould ask to have this limitation removed.

Mr. 'VALSH. It is not being taken out in good fail11. Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. This bill repealing this limitation

is in perfect good faith and in strict compliance with rpy statements at the time of the creation of this park, and when this bill is passed we will commence the further systematic improvement of this park, and in a very few years there will be more visitors every year to this park than to one-half of,: all _the othet· parks ~n the United States. ·

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the committee amendment.

The question was taken; and tlle Speaker pro tempore nn· nounced the ayes seemed to have it.

Mr: WALSH. Mr. Speaker, I demand a diYision. I withdraw the demand.

The question was taken, and the committee ameudinent was agreed to.

The SPEf\._KER pro tempore. The question is upon the engrossment and third reading of the amended bill.

The bill was ordered to be engrossed and read the third tiwe ; was read the third time.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question is on the passnge of the bill.

The question was taken ; and the Speaker announced the ayes seemed to have it. ·

Mr. WALSH. Mr. Speaker, I a k for a division.

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE.- -· 26~9

The House again divided; and there were-ayes 43, noes 4. So the bill was passed. On a motion of Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado, a motion to recon

sider the vote by which the bill was passed was laid on the table. FOR RELIEF OF HOMESTEAD ENTRYMEN WHO SERVED IN ARMY, NAVY,

AND MARINE CORPS.

The next business in order on the Unanimous Consent Calendar was the bill (H. R. 13353) to extend the provisions of the homestead laws touching credit for period of enlistment to the soldiers, nurses, and officers of the Army and the seamen, mal'ines, nurses, and officers of the Navy and the Marine Corps of the United States who have served or will have served with the Mexican border operations or during the war between the United States and Germany and her allies.

The Clerk read the title of the bill. The SPEAKER pro tempore (:Mr. FosTER). Is there objec

tion to the present consideration of the bill? l\Ir. STAFFORD. Mr. Speaker, reserving the right to object,

I understand that this extends to our present soldiers the privileges contained in sections 2304 and 2305, as interpreted by certain resolutions and certain acts subsequently passed. I ri e for the purpose of inquiring as to the nature of these interpreting resolutions and acts.

Mr. FRENCH. Mr. Speaker, the resolutions referred to by the gentleman from 'Visconsin are, first, the resolution of August 29, 1916, in which is recited persons who participated in the disturbances on the Mexican border, and the department felt that it would be advisable in referring to those who par.ticipated in the disturbances on the Mexican border to have the reference to the language here which had reference to those persons.

l\!r. STAFFORD. I call the attention of the gentleman to the fact this is not limited to those merely who participated in the tlisturbances on the Mexican border, but it also extends to those who served in mobilization camps.

l\Ir. FRENCH. Yes; though in connection with that service. Mr. STAFFORD. The original sections of the statute to

,which this act seeks to extend its p-rivileges to our present torces provided, as I recall, that these privileges shall only be granted to those who had served 90 days and had obtained an honorable discharge. Here you are purposing to extend the privileges to those who may not have seen any service at all, except maybe about the mobilization camps. Is it the purpose to grant credit to men who have been at camps, who had vir:tual1y civilian duties, and who would not be required to have any actual residence?

Mr. FRENCH. Of course, the answer to that is this, that the length of service governs the amount of credit that is due to any entryman. If the person were about some mobilization camp merely, why, in all probability in this or any other war bis period of service would be limited, but, on the other hand, if his service called him into action he would in all probability be longer, and I think that takes care of itself.

Mr. MANN. There are men in the mobilization camps who Jw.ve been there all during the war. That is not their fault. ~'Vhy should not they be credited with the length of time re.quired to live on a homestead?

Mr. STAFFORD. These men have ·not heretofore made entries . . This bill is to grant the privilege to those who make subsequent entry.

Mr. MANN. I understand. Mr. STAFFORD. To the time they have been in the service

of the Army. Mr. MANN. The time of his service during the war shall

be equivalent to that much service living on a homestead. The ,war has not been very long, and it will not give the entire period ; that is a sure thing. Besides that, they must live upon the homestead one year, according to the provisions of the original section.

Mr. STAFFORD. Just where is that provided? Mr. :MANN. I think that is true as to commutation. Mr. F.RENCH. That is provided in the Revised Statute, sec

tion 2305. You will find the provision in this language: No patent shall issue to any homestead settler who bas not re- ·

silled upon, improved, and cultivated his home !or a period of one y ear after he shall have commen ced his improvements.

1\lr. MANN. Now, as a matter of fact, we are talking about spending very large sums of money to provide homesteads for these boys. ·of course, this does not do that. The more of them that take out homesteads and go and live on them the better off we will be both as to their employment and as to the public domain, probably.

.Mr. STAFFORD. I quite agree with the gentleman. -

Mr. MANN. This is simply giving the same privileg~ to the boys who served in this war as boys who served 'in the Philippine Insurrection, the War with Spain, and the Civil War.

Mr. CANNON. They must have been mustered into tlie mili-tary and naval service?

Mr. MANN. Oh, certainly. Mr. C-rnNON. They are not civilian employees? l\Ir. FRENCJJ. Not at all. Mr. MANN. This bill was prepared by the department in

order to put in line for the present soldiers what has been done heretofore.

Mr. MONDELL. 1\Ir. Chairman--Mr. STAFFORD. Mr. Chairman, I withdraw the reservation

of objection. 1\lr. l\fONDELL. Mr. Chairman, reserving the right to ob

ject-and I shall not object, inasmuch as the bill ought to pass-this bill as drawn is an illustration of the way that the departments insist upon drawing legislation for Congress, and then of the curious and peculiar way in which they proceed to draw it. The gentleman from Idaho [Mr. FBENCH] introduced a bill which was clear and definite, proposing to do in a clear and definite way a proper thing, and it ought to have been reported. The departffi"ent did not like it, I presume, because they had not drawn it. They proceeded to draw a bill. Now, the French bill, on which this btll is predicated, was a bill that extended the benefits of section 2305 to the soldiers of the late or present war, whichever it may be, and clearly recited the fact that its purpose was to give the benefit of

· constructive residence provided for in that section. The department was not satisfied. Section 2304 of the Revised Statutes was a law that granted a homestead right, and it is not proposed in this bill to grant any additional homestead rights. The only provision of section 2304 which was sought to apply to the soldiers is the very last provision of it, that the soldier shall be allowed six months after locating his homestead and filing his declaratory statement in which to make his settle~ ment. That is the only part of that long section which anyone desires to give the soldier the benefit of. And the curious thing about it is that this department, which has to do with the land laws, apparently forgot that that privilege is now the privilege of every homesteader. He can not be contested unless he is absent from his homestead for more than six months after he makes his entry. Therefore, that provision of this section of the statute, necessary at the time it was passed, right after the Civil War, is entirely unnecessary, because it simply grants a privilege that every homestead settler, Whether a soldier or . not, now has. In extending the provisions of section 2304, we may raise a question whether or no we are trying to give these soldiers another h.omestead right. We are probably safe as against that interpretation, because they have not been so in~ terpreting the section in its application to the soldiers of the Spanish War. But there was really no rhyiL"e or reason for . reference to section 2304 in this bill.

Now, that was not all. The department was not satisfied with the reference that was conta.ined in the bill originally introduced by the gentleman from Idaho [Mr. FBENCH] to the war · on the border and the present war, but they want to define what the war on the border is. or when it was, or what it was about, or something of that sort, and also the present war. And they referred to two statutes, one of which does make reference to the war on the border. The other makes no reference whatever to the recent war in which the United States wa& engaged. The act of July 28, 1917, provides: . ·

That any settler upon the public lands of the United States, or any entryman whose application has been allowed, or any person who hasmade application for public lands which ther eafter may be allowed under the homestead laws, who after such settlement, entry, or U,PPlica.tion enlists or is actually engaged in the military or naval service of the United States as a private solclier, officer, seaman, marine, national guardsman, or member of any other organization for otl'ense or defense authorized by Congress during any war in which the United States may be engaged- .

This is the sort of insistence upon controlling the form of legislation that we are having from the departments all the time. Not content to report on a bill that is clear and definite and concise, instroduced by some Member of Congress, they must, forsooth, draw another bill to suit their notion. And in the drawing of it they have complicated the situation; and except for the fact that they have heretofore interpreted a reference to section 2304, they might raise a question as to just what we were trying to do in the case of these soldiers.

Mr. MANN. Will the gentleman yield? 1\Ir. 1\IONDELL. I yie\d. Mr. MANN. Was not the department bill drawn before th~

French bill? . _ _ . . . Mr. FRENCH. l\Iy bill · was dcawn first. I had taken the

matter up orally with the department and ·then dl;ew a bill and'

2630 OONGRESSION AL · RECORD-.HOUSE~ FEBRUAUY 3;

r:eferreu it to the department. The department then drew this liill :intl sent it to the chairman of the Committee on Public Lands of the House and to the chairman of the Senate Public Lands ·committee. I then introduced the bill in the language of the department, and we considered both bills before the Public Land3 Committee, as will be seen in the report.

Mr. Speaker, this bill, in a word, grants to th~ persons in the military and naval service of the United States during the war with Germany and her allies and to those who saw military s:er";ce in the Mexican disturbance the privilege _ of applying the lerigth of time of such service in lieu of residence on a homestead. It is the same privilege we granted to the soldiers of the Civil War and to the Spanish War veterans. - The bill is not in the language as it was · when I originally

introduced it. The language of the original bill followed as far as possible the language of preceding legislation. This refers to the laws we have passed by referring to the sections of the statute. I think my idea was better, but I do not want to quarrel with the department on that point, and I am content to accept the language as it has been modified. -. One thing I would cull to your attention Specifically. My

bill provided e:\..-plicitly that the law. shall apply to entrymen on 320-acre homesteads and, as well, on the stock-raising homesteads. The ·pending bill doubtless includes both, without -referring to them specifically. In reporting on my bill as originally introduced and using the language of the pending bill the department said the language used would accomplish the same purpose, so I assume no other interpretation could be made. : The bill should pass immeditely, and, to use the language of

the gentleman from Massachusetts, it is in the interest of those who have been battling for our country.

l\1r. MANN. The department bill was drawn before the bill of the gentleman was introduced in the House?

Mr: FRENCH. No. My bill was introduced first and referred to the department.

Mr. MANN. When was the gentleman's bill introduced? At this session of Congress?

Mr. FRENCH. The original bill was introduced November 21, 1918.

Mr. MANN. H. R. 13160? Mr. FRENCH. Yes; and that bill codified, as the gentleman

from Wyoming [Mr. MoNDELL] has ·said, what I thought was the essential and right part of the law that we had heretofor~ passed and specificapy recited the persons who were to be the beneficiaries under it. The department felt that it would be better to refer to the sections by numbers and to these resolutions for the benefit of the persons for whose benefit it would run. . l\1r. MONDELL. The trouble is that one · of the definitions

refers to no war at all except any war. Mr. FRENCH. The department wanted to have there an

enumeration of the soldiers and sailors and marines and so on and other persons engaged in the military service,_ and I thought that was enough to take care of all that I had recognized in the bill which I introduced.

Mr. MONDE.LL. -The bill itself defines the persons who are intended to benefit from the bill.

I rose, Mr. Speaker, simply to call the attention of the House to the practice of the departments in insisting on having their own way in regard to all legislation. They are now proposing a bill which, if the gentleman from Idaho [Mr. FRENCH] hims'elf had introduced and sent down there, they would have sent back here with all sorts of mistakes, not only those that were originally made but others. I think it is all right to pass the bill as it is proposed, because the people who propose it are the people who must interpret it, and they caQ. not well interpret it except as sugges~ed by themselves in presenting it. But it might very well otherwise be interpreted, particularly the reference to section 2304 of the Revised Statutes, and the last references are seemingly confusing rather than enlightening.

The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. FosTER). Is there objec-tion? ·

There was no objection. · The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Clerk will re110rt the bill

for amendment. 1\Ir. FRENCH. Mr. Speaker, this bill is on the Union Calen

dar, and I will ask unanimous consent that it be considered in the House as in Committee of the Whole.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Idaho asks unanimous consent that the bill be considered -in the House as in Committee of the Whole. Is there objection? ' 1\fr: MASON. Mr. Sepaker, as tliis bill is in the interest of the

soldiers, it occurred to me that it was exceedingly important · to have some soldiers left to enjoy our homestead laws, ·and ·that . . . .

the way we might have some left was to bring them out of Russia. · - -

I desire to present some reasons why, in the interest of this bill, we should pass the resolution originally offered by the gentleman from Minnesota [1\fr. LUNDEEN] ami afterwards one offered by me, directing the Commander in Chief to withdraw the forces of the United States from Russia.

I stated in my speech the other day that I purposed to show that there was a dangerous element of the almighty dollar in the payment of inte1·est out of American money that was intended by American taxpayers and the American Congress to go for the support of our allies in winning this war.

I stated the other day that I was so informed, and I shall add, in addition to tbat statement, a statement which is a sort of reportorial or editorial statement in the Christian Science Monitor, which is evidently written by one acquainted with the finances of this country. And I purpose to show by reading this that I was right, that t)le money that you voted to win this war with is now being used by the agents of the old. original government representing the Czar of Russia to pay the interest upon bonds of the speculators of America, who loaned their money to the Russian Government and took a gambler's chance. I purpose to show by reading this that only a few bankers in Wall Street knew that they were going to pay the interest on those bonds that had been put upon the Russian people to pay for their chains in the past, as the price of their own slavery, money that was loaned to the money lenders of America. After the collapse of the government of Kerensky those bonds went down in the market. from par to below 50 cents. Then I propose to show that some distinguished, pu triotic money lenders of this country, who had some private advices, learned that they were going to pay the interest on those bonds out of the money that you voted to feed the starving people in Russia; that it was being used, and I think improperly used, to pay the interest on those bonds. That is a remarkable fact stated in this seemingly accredited statement by a writer on a paper that stands well in this country, the Christian Science Monitor. It is undoubted. It carries out the statement that .I believed to be true. ·-

These bonds were sold by l\Iorgan & Co. to the money lenders of America before we went into the war. It was at a time when the old Government of Russia was taking its chance on the life of the Czar and the continuation of the_ monarchy. When we loaned this money to the Government of Russia, some three hundred and odd millions-! have the exact figures here, and I will put this article in, with the consent of my colleague, so as not to take but one minute more-we loaned $130,000,0()()-we loaned a large sum, and there is $130,000,000 left in the Treasury of the United States-$130,000,000 that has not been expended to win the war.

The war is over. The money is in your country. It is in th<> hands of a gentleman who does not spenu it except, according to this article, by direction of the Secretary of the Treasury.

Now, gentlemen, if under the circumstances we should proceed by moral garnishment to say to the distinguished gentleman who now represents a divided country in Russia, who holds no commission from the present Government of Russia. \Yho was originally appointed by the Kerensky governruent, when \YC

loaned this three hundred thousand and odd dollars, "That money is here, and if the Secretary of the Treas~ry would only say we loaned that money to _ a government that is now collapsed, under international 1a~ there may b~ danger .tha_t n revolutiona1-y success in Russia means a loss to the Urutell States of $385,000,000." . .·

But that is not what they are doing. They are not. attempting to save that money in the hands of the Russ1an representative for the purpose of relieving your constituents and mine; but on the contrary, according to this statement, certain favored ban'kers who were not surprised when, on the 17th of last month-! 'vill give you the exact date- .

Mr. SLOAN. ·wm the gentleman yield right there? Mr. MASON. Yes. Mr. SLOAN. I do not combat the gentleman's argument.

In the interest of accuracy, let me say that we authorize(} a loan of $300,000,000 to Russia, but did not loan more than $187,000,000. . '

1\Ir. MASON.. All right. This article states ·this: It is -understood there is still a balance in the United States Treasury

of about $130,000,000 granted to Russia and never used after the fall of the Kerensky government.

Now, that $130,000,000 is a sucreu trust. It belongs still either to win this war for America, or, the American war having been won, then as a rna tter of fact that money should be held as security to· the American tax-payers instead of being used to 'pay the interest upon the bonds that have been discredited in

1919~ CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2631 the market, so that favored bankers have been able to go out and buy them up at 48 cents on a dollar and then find themselves getting 6! per cent on bonds that were selling for 48 cents and getting that out of the money that belongs to the people of the United States.

Mr. PLATT. The gentleman is mistaken about that. The $130,000,000" is still in the Treasury of the United States and none of it is being used for this purpose. It never has been paid to ~em . . The report of the · Secretary of the Treasury shows it.

Mr. MASON. This is what it says here, and this has been Youched for by a member of the Foreign Relations Committee. Now, you and I want the facts, and if I am mistaken, I want to be corrected. ·

Mr. LITTLE. ·wm the gentleman yield for a question? Mr. MASON . . Yes. 1\fr. LITTLE. Do I understand that from this $130,000,000 in

the Treasury of the United States the interest upon the Russian bonds of the former government is being paid?

Mr. MASON. I do so state. I only state it upon information given to me the other day here upon the :floor, and this article states it

1\Ir. LONGWORTH. If the gentleman will pardon me, he must be absolutely wrong about that. That fund he is speaking about, of $130,000,000, is simply money . that has not been actually loaned; that is not being used for any purpose in connection with the Russian loan. The gentleman from Nebraska [Mr. SLoAN] was absolutely right when he said that we authorized a loan of approximately $300,000,000 to the Russian Government.

1\fr. MASON. Yes. Mr. LONGWORTH. But, as a matter of fact, we have loaned

only $187,000,000, as the gentleman from Nebraska [Mr. SLOAN] states. Now, the money remaining in the Treasury is not a fund that is used or that could be used for the payment of interest.

1\fr. LITTLE. Let us see if we can be told how much money tlle former Russian ambassador now has that thls country intended to loan to Russia. Let us find out if that is one fund and the fund referred to by the gentleman from New York [Mr. PLATT] still in the Treasury of $130,000,000 is another fund, or whether we are really all talking about the same fund.

1\fr. LONGWORTH. If the gentleman will pardon me, I think he is confusing the amount actually loaned with the amount that was not loaned.

1\1r. MASON. No. l\11·. LONGWORTH. I think I have heard it stated that the

fund actually loaned to Russia, such of it as was not actually sen t to Russia, may still be here 'in the hands Qf some Russian agent, and that might possibly be used for the payment of interest.

l\lr. MASON. That is exactly what I meant. Mr. LONGWORTH. But that is not the money in the Treas-

ury of the United States. l\lr. MASON. I do not say that. Mr. LONGWORTH. The gentleman made that statement. Mr. MASON. No; but I say that is all with the consent of

the Treasury of the United States. l\lr. PLA'l'T. U is not. 1\Ir. MASON. ·Let us see whether this man is correct or not. 1\fr. PLATT. He is not. Mr. MASON. It is awfully hard to get the truth in Washing

ton. As a matter of fact, you do not get the truth from any nation in the world. You do not even get the truth of what is occurring at the peace table. You can not get the truth of what is occurring in Russia. Yesterday I heard two newspaper reporters speak in this city, and I wish every one of my colleagues could have heard them. They were clean and honorable. They went o-ver there to represent American newspapers, and one of them gave a list of the good reporters who were canned-perhaps some of you do not understand the limguage of tlle street-were discharged, simply kicked out, because they uru·ed to tell the American people the truth. Now, let us see which is right. I have stated that the money in the hands of this agent of the Russian Government has been used to pay interest upon the bonds of the Russian people, bonds that were issued before America went into the war, when Russia was in the war. I have stated that they were clients of Morgan & Co., and that some bankers knew the interest was to be paid and some did not. I am not complaining about that so much. · l\It·. LITTLE. He is not an agent of the Russian Government now, is he?

l\lr. MASON. I think not; but he is the only representative they have here. His name is the same. I do not know whether he is a brother or a cousin or an uncle.

1\Ii;. LITTLE. Be is not in the employ of the Bolsheviki? 1\Ir. ·:MASON. Oh, no. They have no representative here. It

is · a Llere chance if one of• their people has the opportunity to tell the truth about the Russian situation. What we · want is the truth, whether it helps or hurts.

Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?

1\fr. MASON. Yes. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I should like Yery much to get

the matter clear in my mind if I can. Does the gentleman refer to loans made by the Government as a Government?

1\fr. MASON. No. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Or does he refer to loans made

by individuals in the purchase of Russian bonds? Mr. MASON. Yes; that is what I refer to. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Then the gentleman is notre

ferring to any official loan ·made by this Government. Mr. MASON. Except where the money is paid out of that loan

that is still left in the hands of the Russian representative. It was not used to win the war, but he has used that balance to pay interest upon bonds that were sold before we went into the war that were not a part of the war measure. I say that you and I, as lawyers, as diligent attorneys, would give the moral garnishment and say that that money belongs to Uncle Sam and the people, and it shoufd come back to us. But instead of that they are laying it out to be distributed to the bondholders in thi~ country.

Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. To get back again. The Government, as I understand the statement made by the gentleman from Nebraska and the gentleman from Ohlo, the Goyernment itself after we had entered the war loaned to the Russian Government $187,000,000.

Mr. MASON. Yes. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. There had been Russian bonds

sold here prior to the time that this Government entered the war? ·

Mr. MASON." Yes. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Does the gentleman say that a

part of that $187,000,000 loaned by the Government after we had entered the war is being used to pay interest on bonds sold to individuals before we. entered the war?

Mr. MASON. That is exactly what I say. As I stated the other day, I was informed and gave my information to you-and the only proof I have now I am offering to you-is a statement by a credible reporter on a newspaper who is writing on this subject. I want Congress to know the facts. My statement was that there was $130,000,000 left in the Treasury which had not been sent to Russia but is still in the hands of the United States or of the Kerensky government, and that the Secretary of the Treasury has consented that he may pay the interest on these bonds out of the money that should have been returneu to the United States on the signing of the armistice.

Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Let me ask the gentleman, if the loan had been made it must have been made without any string attached to it-I mean a loan made by this Governmeut to the Russian Government, whatever that government wasmust have been made without any strings tied to it.

Mr. MASON. I think tbere were many strings tied to it, where it was to be used to help us win the war, and after the "·ar was won they should never have paid out another cent, but said, "Here is your money." But instead of that it has been used to bull and bear the market on these ancient bonds of nussia, if the statement is true, and that is what I want to find out. This article makes it very clear. .

Mr. GARD. If the gentleman will pardon me, how is the gentleman proceeding? . ·

Mr. MASON. I am proceeding by unanimous consent. I think that I will be through in less than five minutes. I do not know of anything that is more important when we are considering the question in this Congress whether you are going to leave the American boys in. Russia. The other day they lost 50 men and 5 officers 500 miles from any spot where we had a pound of iron or anything else to defend. Great God, gentlemen, do you understand that we are making war; that we have declared any war against Russia? If that is true, if we ha-re declared wru·, instead of leaving 10,000 men up there to be slaughtered as they were in Mexico, you ought to send a million and a. half men. But if you have not declared war, the Constitution gives you the right to pass a resolution which ueclares that these boys should be brought out of Russia. The American people want them brought out. They did not enlist to fight the poor people of Russia; they enlisted to fight the Germans, and they have licked them to a . standstill, and there was not a Qerman within 3,000 miles of Archangel, and these boys that have been sent to Rtissia have-been 350 miles from the ·place ·they were to

CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 3,

oefend, sent under Japanese commanders, sent under English Mr. MASON. Yes. . commanders. England has no troops t.bere now.; they were Mr. GARNER. I understood the gentleman from New York ordered out. English soldiers went to Lloyd George and asked · [Mr. PLATT} to say awhile ago that the Treasury Department him if he was going to send them to Siberia and he said, "No;. bad not paid any money toward the_ interest on these bonds. I far be it from me to send English soldiers into a country that we will ask him whether that is correct? have not declared war against." What are the American sol- Mr. PLATT. The report of the Secretary of the Treasury, diers doing? We ought to bring them home. They did not en- shows this whole thing. So much money has been advanced to list to fight the poor people of Russia; they did not enlist to go Russia-- · into the wilds of Siberia. But1 gentlemen, I am getting away Mr. MASON. I am not saying that the Treasury Department from the question of the dollar mark into the question of blood, did pay it. and when I do I am likely to get excited. l\fr. GARNER. That article says so and· the gentleman seems

Mr. KINKAID. Will the gentleman yield? to have great confidence in the. article. ~ 1\Ir. :MASON. I will yield to the gentleman. Mr. MASON. The article does not quite say that. It says · Mr. KINKAID. Can the gentleman inform the House where that they are paying it out of the funds that are in their hands. remains that portion of the $187,000,000 which is being used to I believe our colleagues from New York [Mr. PLATT] and from pay the interest on these bonds? : Ohio [Mr. LoNGWORTH] are right, that ther·e are $130,000,000

Mr. MASON. I think the article that I am about to read still in the Treasury . .will explain that better than I can. l\Ir. LONGWORTH. The ge,ntleman will pardon me, but as

New York, N. Y.-Announcement on Thursday, last week, by the. I got the reading ot that article, it is a positive statement that National City Bank- . the money now in· the Treasury that simply was not used as n.

That great patriotic organization willing to sacrifice every- loan is being used to pay the interest on the bonds is ued before bouy but themselves- we ever entered the war and before this authorization '"as of the payment of interest, due January 10, on the 6i per cent external made .. obligations of the .old Russian Government attracted considerable in- 1\.fr. 1\IASON. I do not think it goes that for .terest in banking cucles. - • . . ·

Partly due to the unsettled conditions in Russia, but mainly accentu- 1\Ir. LONGWORTH. It goes tllat far If It goes anywhere. nteu by the fear that the January interest' would go in default- Mr. MASON. Anyway take that horn of the dilemma if you

These are external obligations of the old Russian Govern- like, would you not like to know the facts'Z ment- · Mr. LONGWORTH. I certainly would. boWers of these bonds have thrown them on the market dming the last 1\fr. 1\IASON. That is all I want to know. This article sars few weeks to uch an extent that. the E_rice declined from nearly 80 this, but in the latter part of _the article it says: at the end of October to below 50 just be ore the end of the year. It is understood that the sanction of the Treasury has to be

Remarkable, is it not, that the ancient bonds of the. ancient obtained for each payment. ·Government of Russia should so fluctuate! One man who· was It further says~ not posted ·sells them below 50 cen.ts, and the wise man who is posted buys them, and they a.re not worth 5 cents unless he has some information as to what the Treasury Depart~ent is going _to do.

. It can, however, be stated that in certain banking circles the payment of the interest caused no surprise.

Some of the bankers were not surprised. Is it not surprising _that some knew and some di<l not?

It would also cause no surprise to these interests to. see the bonds patd off at maturity.

Out of whose money, please? One banker, who was well versed with conditions surrounding these

bonds, expr~ssed the opinion that the worst that could happen would be a short extension on more favorable terms than those under which. the bonds were issued. " It is hardly conceivable," he says, " that the allies, as well as the United States, would let these bonds go to deiault in view of the enormous holdings of Russian securities in_ the allies' countries, in comparison with which the outstanding amount of 62 per cent bonds, viz, $50,000,000, is very small ...

It is understood that there is still a balance in the United States ,Treasury of about $130,000,000--

Just as the gentleman from Ohio [l\1r. LoNGWORTH] saidgranted to Russia and never used after the fall of the Kerensky government. The :payment of coupons on Russia's obligations in thi'! country, it is smd, comes from this fund, and it is understood that the sanction of the Treasury bas to be obtained for each payment.

r Mr. LOBECK. Does the gentleman know the amount of in:terest paid out?

1\lr. MASON~ They pay 6! per cent on $50,000,000. That is a mere bag of tools-bagatelle, I should say.

· The 6~ per cent bonds are ';lndoubtedly the cheapest of all Russian vbligations dealt in anywhere m the world. While they declined fr(lm nearly 75 to 48 in New York, the 5 per cent rentes of long maturity quoted in all European markets remained practically stationaryaround 60.

1\fost remarkable thing. First, they declined the Russian bonds, when we were willing to lend them money, and then there are some wise people so connected with the department that they know they are going to get the interest, and t-l:ley buy them at 48, and it will only take a few more years' interest to

·get their principal back in interest. Bankers who have been following this situation closely predict that

inasmuch as the United States Government-ADd here comes the" nigger in the woodpile"

has een fit to pay interest out of the balance of the Russian funds it still has on hand- ·

And this is what we call bulling the marketthat inaS!DUCh as the United States Government has seen fit to pay interest out of the balance of the Russian funds it still- has on hand, 1 t will not decline to pay the principal of the bonds when due. out of the same funds, inasmuch as this 50,000,000 issue and another of $725,000,000, due December 21, 1921, are the only short-term Russian bonds outstanding and represent an inconsequential sum to be .provided for to prevent a default by the Russian Government, which is vbligated to the allies fo~ billions of dollars.

l\11:. G;~R.NE~~ ~r.! Speaker,~. wijl the geutleman yield~

The payment of coupons on Russia's obligations in this country it is said comes f1·om this fund.

What is this fund? It is understood there is still a balance in the United States Treasury of about $130,000,000 granted to Russia and never used after the fall of the Kerensky government.

Mr. LONGWORTH. That is a direct charge that money now in the Treasury that never was actually expended under our authorization of a loan to Russia is being used now to pay the interest on bonds issued by the former Government of the Czar at a rate of 6~ per cent interest.

.Mr. 1\iASON. I think it is a direct charge. Mr. LONGWORTH. If the gentleman will pardon me, as I

understand the situation with regard to this authorization, it is this : When the first Uberty loan issue, as I recall it, $2,000,-000,000 was. authorized as loans to the allies-and I do not think my figures are absolutely accurate--it was left to the Treasury, Department, the administration, to determine what amount hall be loaned to the respec-tive governments, and in many cases authorizations were made by the Treasury Department, but all the money authorized was not loaned, as in this case, but surelYi the rr.:oney that was not actually loaned to any of the allied Governments merely will remain in the Treasury unexpended and could not be used by the Treasury Department properly for the payment of interest on any other bond.

1\fr. :MASON. The gentleman said "properly." Mr. LONGWORTH. Properly. That is what I understand

that the charge made by that article is-that exact charge. 1\fr, MASON. But if the gentleman will read the whole article

it might lead in this direction, that between the $130,000,000, which is in the Treasury, and the $185,000,000 would leave, say, $50,000,000 we were to use for the use of the war. You know, there was a large sum of money used to buy supplies to send into Russia-engines and everything of that kind. Now, while the unexpended balance in the hands of the original Russian representatives is $50,000,000; that is, of that $50,000,000 whicb was turned over to the Russian Government, a part of it stands to the credit of the representatives of the Kerensky government and out of that possibly, because the article says that before it could be paid as interest on these bonds they had to have the consent of the Treasury Department--

1\Ir. LONGWORTH. If the gentleman will permit, that would be quite another thing. I can see no possiblt> objection to the representative of the Russian Government paying the interest on the bonds issued under the liberty loan. We do not have to ask where that money comes from ·so long as we get the interest, and it is very different from what I understood the gentleman to charge that the Treasury Department was using funds actually in the Treasury for that purpose.

Mr. MASON.. I do not see a bit of difference from any moral standpoint if in the hands of this man here there was $20,

. _000,000 or $101000,000 turned over to him to help ·win this war;

lf)19. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2633 he is boun<l morally, when his Government fell, to turn · that money back into the Treasury of the United States, and if it is not in the Treasury of the United States it is in his possession,' and clearly, from this article, that interest is being paid with the consent of tbe Treasury of the United States.

Mr. LONGWORTH. That is not what the article says. 1\lr. MASON. Yes; it does. 1\Ir. LONGWORTH. The article says the $130,000,000-Mr. MANN. 1\fr. Speaker, our colleague has occupied the floor

fo r about half an hour, and I trust he will now let us proceed. l\Ir. MASON. Give me just a couple of minutes to· answer

this. Mr. 1\fANN. I know; but then there. will be another one, and

the gentleman can get in to-morrow on general debate for an hour.

Mr. l\lASON. I beg the pardon of the House for occupying so much time.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to ·considering this bill in the House as in Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union? [After a pause.] The-Chair hears none. The Clerk will report the bill.

The Clerk read as follows: Be it enacted, etc., That subject to the conditions therein expressed,

as to length of service and honorable discharge, the provisions of sections 2304, 2305, and 2309, Revised Statutes of the United States, shall be :1pplicable in all cases of military and naval service rendered in connection with the Mexican border operations or during the war with Germany and. its allies as defined by public resolution No. 32, approved .August 29, 1916 ( 39 Stat. L., 671), and the act approved J"uly 28, 1917 (40 Stat. L., 248). ·

The committee amendments were read as follows: . Page 1, line 51 after the word " four," strike out the comma and insert the w:ord 'and."

The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. Page 1, line G, after the word "five," strike out the words "and

twenty-three hundl'ed and nine." The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. The bill as amended was ordered to . be engrossed and read

a third time, was read the third time, ·and passed. Mr. FRENCH. Mr. Speaker, I move to reconsider the vote

by which the bill was passed and to lay that motion on the table.

l\lr. MANN. Mr. Speaker, I object. · Gentlemen ought not to go down in front within a few feet of the desk, where we can not hear them.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Idaho moYes to reconsider and lay that motion on the table. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none.

:Jfr. FRENCH. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to exteiHl my remarks briefly on this particular bill.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none.

BRIDGE A "D DAM ACROSS THE MAHONING RIVER, OHIO. The next business in order on the Calendar for Unanimous

Consent was the bill (H. R. 12995) granting the consent of Congress to the Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. to construct, maintain, and operate a combined bridge and dam across the Mahoning River.

The Clerk read the title of the bill. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the pres

ent consideration of this bill? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none.

The Clerk read as follows: Be it enacted, etc.1 That the consent of Congress is hereby granted

to the Youngstown Sneet & Tube Co., its successors and assigns, to construct, operate, and maintain a combined bridge and dam and approaches thereto across the Mahoning River at a point suitable to ·the interests of navigation at or near the town of Struthers, county of Mahoning, State of Ohio, m accordance with the provisions of an act entitled "An act to regulate the construction of bridges over navigable waters," approved March 23, 1906.

SEc. 2. That the right to alter, amend, or repeal this act is hereby expressly reserved.

The committee amendments were read, as follows: Page 2, line 3, after the word "fix," insert n colon and the follow

ing: "Provided, That no dam constructed under the consent hereby granted shall be used to develop water power nor to generate electricity."

The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. The bill as amended was ordered to be engrossed · and read

a third time, was read the third time, and passed. On motion of Mr. SNooK, a motion to reconsider the vote by

which the bill was passed was laid on the table. BRIDGE ACROSS THE MAHONING RIVER, OHIO.

The next business in order on the Calendar for Unanimous Consent was the bill (H. R. 12996), granting the consent of Congress to the Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. to construct,. maintaiu. nnd operate a bridge across the Mahoning River, in t11e Stntc o f Ohio.

·The Clerk read the title of the bill. -The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the pres

ent consideration of the bill? [After ·a pause.] The Chair hears none.

·The Clerk read as follows : ·Be it enacted, etc. That the consent of Congress is hereby granted

to the Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co., its successors and assigns, to construct, maintain, and operate a bridge and approaches thereto for carrying water lines, electric transmission lines, etc., at a point suitable to the interest of navigation at or near the town of East Youngstown, county of Mahoning, State of Ohio, in accordance with the provisions of an act entitled ''.An act to regulate the construction of bridges over navigable waters," approved March 23, 190G.

SEc. 2. That the right to alter, amend, or repeal this act is hereby e..~pressly reserved.

The committee amendment was read, as follows: Page 1, line 7, after the word " forth," insert the words " across the

Mahoning River." The question was taken, and the amendment was ag!·eed to. The bill as amended was ordered to be engrossed and read a

third time, was read the third time, and passed. On motion of 1\!r. SNOOK, a motion to reconsider the vote by

which the bill was passed was laid on the table. BRIDGE ACROSS THE MAHONING RIVER, OHIO.

The ne:A t business in order on the Calendar for Unanimous Consent was the bill (H. R. 12997) granting the consent of Congress to the Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. to construct, maintain, and operate a bridge across the 1\Iahoning River, in the State of Ohio.

The Clerk read the title of the bill. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there objection to the present

consideration of the bill? [After a pause.] The Chair bears none.

The Clerk read as follows: Be it enacted, etc., That the consent of Congress is hereby granted to

the Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co., its successors and assigns, to construct, maintain, an"d operate a bridge and approaches thereto across the Mahoning River at a point suitable to the interests of navigation at or near the town of East Youngstown, county of Mahoning, State of Ohio, in accordance with the provisions of an act entitled ".An act to regulate the construction of bridges over navigable waters," approved March 23, 1906.

SEc. 2. That the right to alter, amend, or repeal this act is hereby expressly reserved.

The bill was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time, was read the third time, and passed.

On motion of Mr. SNooK, a motion to reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed was laid on the table.

METALLIFEROUS MINERALS ON INDIAN RESETIVATIONS. 1\Ir. HAYDEN. 1\fr. Speaker, I move to suspend the rules and

pass the bill (S. 385) authorizing the mining of metalliferous minerals on Indian reservations as amended by the House Committee on Indian Affairs.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Clerk will report the bill. The Clerk read as follows:

.An act (S. 385) to authorize mining for metalllferous minerals on Indian reserva tlons.

Be it enacted, etc., That the Secretary of the Interior be, and hereby is authorized and empowered, under general regulations to be fixed by him and under such terms and conditions as he may prescribe, not inconsistent with the terms of this act, to lease to citizens of the United States or to any association of such persons or to any corporation organized under the laws of the United States or of any State or Territory thereof, any part of the unallotted lands within any. Indian reservation within the States of .Arizona. California, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Washington, or Wyoming, heretofore withdrawn from entry under the mining laws for the purpose of mining for deposits of gold, silver, copper, and other valuable metalliferous minerals, which leases shall be irrevocable, except as herein provided, but which may be declared null and void upon breach of any of their terms.

SEc. 2. That after the passage and approval of this act, unallottecl lands, or such portion thereof as the Secretal'y of the Interior shall determine, within Indian reservations heretofore withheld from disposition under the mining laws may be declared by the Secretary of the Interior to be subject to exploration for the discovery of deposits of gold, silver, copper,~. and other valuable metalliferous minerals by citizens of the United o:states, and after such declaration mining claims may be located by such citizens in the same manner as mining claims al'e located under the mining laws of the Unitell States: Provided, That the locators of all such mining claims, or their heirs, successors. or assigns, shall have a preference right to apply to the Secretary of the Interior for a lease, under the terms and ccndltlons of this act, within c,.ne year after the date of the location of any mining claim, and any such locator who shall fail to apply for a lease within one year from the date of location shall forfeit all rights to such mining claim: Prov ided further, That duplicate copies of the location notice shall be fil ed within 60 days with the superintendent in charge of the reservation on which the mining claim is iocated, and that application for a lease under this act may be filed with such superintendent for transmission through ofilcial channels to the Secretary of the Interior: And provided further, That lands containing springs, water holes, or other bodies of water needed or used by the Indians for watering Itve stock, irrigation or water-power purposes shall not be designated by the Secretary of· the Interior as subject to entry under this act. : . ·

SEC. 3. That leases under .this act shall be for a period of 30 years, wit.h the preferential right in the lessee to renew the same for successive periods of 10 years upon such reasonable terms and conditions a9 may be prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior. unless otherwis(! provided by law at the time of the expiration of :such periods: Provillet:J.

2634 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 3, - - -

That the lessee may, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior, be permitted at any time to make written relinquishment of all rights under snch a lease uclJ ·upon acceptance there()f be thereby relieved of all future obligations under said lease.

SEC. 4. That in addition to areas of mineral land to be included in leases un<ler this act the Secretary of the Interior, in his discretion, may grant to the lessee the right to use, during the life of the lease, a tract of unoccupied land, not exceeding 80 acres in area, for camp sites, milling, smelting, and refining works and for other purposes connected with nnd necessary to the proper deveiopment a.nd use of the deposits covered by the lease. ·

SEc. 5. That the Secretary of the Interior, in his discretion, in making· any lease under this act, may reserve to the United States the right to lease sell, or otherwise dispose of the surface of the lands embraced within such lease under existing law or laws hereafter enacted, in so far as said surface is not necessary for use of the lessee in extracting and removing the deposits therein: Prot'ided, That the said Secretary, during the life of the lease, is hereby authorized to issue such permits for easements herein provided to be reserved. .

S.EC. 6. That any successor in interest or assignee of any lease granted under this act, whether by voluntary transfer, judicial·sale, foreclosure sale, or otherwi e, shall be subject to all the conditions of the approval under which such rights are held and also subject to all the provisions nnd conditions of this act to the same extent as though such successor or assign were the original les.see hereunder.

SEc. 7. That any lease granted under this act may be forfeited and canceled by appropriate proceedings in the United States district court for the district in which said property or some part thereof is situated whenever the le see, after reasonable notice in writing, as prescribed in the lease, shall fail to comply with the terms of this act or with such conditions not inconsistent herewith as may be specifically recited in the lease.

S11c. 8. That for the privilege of mining or extracting the mineral deposits in the ground covered by the lease the lessee shall pay to the United States. for the benefit of the Indians, a royalty which shall not be less than 5 per cent of the net value of the output of the minerals at the mine, due and payable at the end of each month succeeding that of the extraction of the minerals from the mine, and an annual rental, payable at the date of such lease and annuilly thereafter on the area covereu by such lease, at the rate of 25 cents per acre foF the first calendar year thereafter; GO cents per acre for the second, third, fourth, and fifth years, respectively ; and $1 per acre for each and every year thereafter during the continuance of the lease, except that such rental for any year shall be credited against the royalties as they accrue for that year. -

SEc. 9. That in a1dition to the payment of the royalties and rentals us herein provided the lessee shall expend annually not less than $100 in cle-.elopment work for- each mining claim located or leased in the same manner as an annual expenditure for labor or improvements is required to be made under the mining laws of the United States : Provided, That the le see shall also agree to pay all damages occasioned by r ea on of his mining operations to the land or allotment of any Indian or to the crops or improvements thereon: Ana prov ided further, That no timber shall be cut upon the reservation by the lessee except after first obtaining a permit from the superintendent of the reservation and upon payment of the fair value thereof.

S.Ec. 10. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to examine the books and accounts of lessees, and to require them to submit statements, representations, or reports, including information as to cost of mining, all of which statements, representations, or reports so required shall be upon oath, unless otherwise specified, and in such form and upon such blanks as the Secretary of the Interior may require ; and any person making any false statement, representation, or report under oath shall be subjeet to punishment as for perjury.

SEc. 11. That all moneys received from royalties and rentals under the provi ions of this act shall be deposited in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the Indians belonging and having tribal rights on the reservation where the leased land is located, which moneys shall be at all times subject to appropriation by Congress for their benefit, unless otherwise provided by treaty or agreement ratified by Congt·ess: Provided, That such moneys shall be subject to the laws authorizing the pro rata distribution of Indian tribal funds.

SEC. 12. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to perform any and all acts and to make such rules and regulations not inconsistent with this act as may be necessary and proper for the protection of the interests of the Indians and for the purpose of carrying the provisions of this act into full force and effect : Provided, That nothing in this act shall be construed or held to affect the right of the State or other local authority to exercise any rights which they may have to levy and collect taxes upon improvements, output of mines, or other rights, property, or assets of any Ies ee.

SEC. 13. That mining locations, under the terms of this act, may be made on unallotted lands within Indian reservations by Indians who have heretofore or may hereafter be declared by the Secretary of the ·Interior to be competent to manage their own affairs; and the said Secreta.rv is hereby authorized and empowered to lease such lands to such Indians in accordance with the provisions of this act: P-rovided, ,That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby, authorized to permit other Indians to make locations and obtain leases under the provisions of this act, under such rules and regulations ns he may prescribe in regard to the working, developing, disposition, and selling of the prod.ncts, and the disposition of the proceeds thereof of any .such mlne by such Indians.

SEC. 14. That hereafter no public lands of the United States shall be withdrawn by Executive order, proclamation, or othewise for or as an Indian reservation except by act of Congress. , The SPEAKER. Is a second demanded? · Mr. MANN. l\.Ir. Speaker, I demand a second. · Mr. HAYDEN. ~1r. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that a second may be considered as ordered.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman asks unanimous consent that a second may be considered as ordered. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none. The gentleman from ·Arizona [l\Ir. HAYDE~] is entitled to 20 minutes and the gentleman from lllinois. [Mr. l\l.ANN] to 20 minutes.

Mr. ~YDEN. Mr. Sp.eaker, this is a bill authorizing mining for metolliferous minerals on Indian reservations It is made up of ·applicable sections Wren from the coal, oil. and gas and coal-leasing bills and the water-power bills which ha'\"'e passed

this House three· times. The bill as originally introduced in the last Congress applied solely to the State of Arizona. It was refeiTed to the Department of the Interior for report and on the Secretary's recommendation was amended to include all of the UnHed States. and in that form it passed this House. The Secretary further sugge ted that the bill should be amended to provide that only reservations or such parts of reservations as he might designate should be opened to entry for mining purposes, so that whether mining is to be permitted on any reserva· ti_?n or.any part thereof under this act depends entirely upon the discretwn of the Secretary of the Interior. The Secretary also suggested in his report the minimum royalty be raised from 2 to 5 per cent, and that was done by your committee. The last suggestion made in tllis Congress was that the receipts from royalties and rentals be subject to pro rata distribution to Indians entitled thereto. That amendment has been made. So every amendment suggested by the department is incorporated in this bill.

Furthermore, this bill has been considered by the Board of Indian Commissioners, consisting of 10 members appointed. by the Pre ident to advise as -to Indian affairs. At their sugges-· tion is was amended, in section 2. to provide that lands containing springs~ water holes, or water-power sites shall not be subject to entry under this act. Also, in section 9, to the effect that ff the land of any allottee is damaged by mining operations compensation shall be paid. A third change, made at the suggestion of this board, is found in section 11, which was amended to provide that all funds received under the provisions of this act shall be subject to appropriation by Congress for the benefit of the Indians concerned rather than for their support. education, and civilization. The Board of Indian CommLsioners suggeste<l these three changes, which were adopted.

The bill was then taken up with the Indian Rights' Association, another group of friends of the Indians. They tJJought that . competent Indians should be given the same privilege to conduct mining operations as citizens of the United States, and you will find that section 13 of this act authorizes the Secretary of the Interior to issue leases to Indians who are competent to manage their. own affairs the same as to citizen . Incompetent Indians may also .mine, but the proceeds remain under the control of the D,~partment of the Interior. So, as the bill now stands, it has passed the scrutiny of every recognize<l friend or guardian of the Indians. The amendments suggeste<l by them have been adopted and are now incorporated in the act.

As I said before, this measure passed the House by unanimous consent in the last Congress, went to the Senate, and failed of passage owing to a fillibuster against other legislation in the closing hours of the session. This bill has passed the Senate, and I sincerely trust that favorable action ,-vm be taken on it to-day by the House.

If any gentleman has any questions to ask about any provision of this bill, I shnU be glad to tell him where it originated and all about it.

Mr. WALSH. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. HAYDEN. Certainly. Mr. 'V ALSH. On pnge 3 of the report it . ays: Owing to the present demand for metals for war purpose , this is o.

most opportune time for the passage of a measure of this character.

That was .Tune 29, 1918. Now, I assume the gentleman will agree that the present demand for metals for war purposes is less than it was at the time that report was written.

Mr. HAYDF~. There is no question about that. 1\fr. WALSH. Then, if that argument is out of the way, what

other reason is there for taking up the time of Congre sat this particular hour, in the closing days of the se sion, in an attempt to enact this legislation? Is it going to financially benefit the Indians and add to their tribal funds?

Mr. HAYDEN. Beyond a doubt the Indians will be benefited . It is well lrnown that on many Indian reservations there are deposits of metalliferous minerals, which, if permitted to be mined, would produce a revenue that would be deposited in the Treasury as tribal funds and used for the benefit of the Indians. As the case stands now. no mining of any kind w~1atsoever can be done on any executive-order Indian reservation. There is no law of any sort whereby the Secretary of the Interior can permit mining on any Indian reservation of such a character. The only place where the mineral resources of the Indian lands have been developed is in Oklahoma, where special acts have been passed by Congress to permit coal,. oil, aud gas leases.

Mr. WALSH. Is. it a fact that these Indians have- been so - comfortably situate<! that they do not care to engage in this work

themselves'? · l\Ir. HAYDEN. It i simply lack of ability. Mining is a

highly 'developed a.rt. which requires scientific knowledge, which

1919. CON GR.ESSION AL RECORD-HOUSE. 2635 the Indians do not po. es , not to speak of the capital neces. ary 1\lr. GARTER of Oklahoma. l pon reasonable term. to be for such entel'pri es. pre. cribed by the • ecretary of the Interior.

Mr. WALSH. WeU, I Stlppooe if it were to be a profitable l\Ir. STAFFORD. Yes ; upon reasonaiJle term& to ue pre-venture they might be able to employ somebody to ·llow them scrihed by tlle SecTetary. how to do it, and have it done un<ler their own supervision. 1\lr. HAYDE~. 1\Ir. Speaker, I re.servc the balance of my

1\ir. HAYDEN. As pro>ided in the last section, Indians, un- time. oer this act, can locate mining claims, and if they have the money 1\lr. 1\L.U,~. :Ur. Speaker, hO\"\' much time doe. tho gentleman to hire miners to do the work they are at liberty to do so. from Arizona I'e ·ene?

1\lr. WALSH. Yes; be is at liberty to <lo it, unless the <le- T11e SPEAKER. He rc. ern' nine minutes. partment would take it into its head to leave 19,551;000 acre. to R"\:TEXSIO::s- OF RE:llAnKs . . the Anaconda Copper Co., and in that case the Indians in the l\1r. LITTLE. 1\lr. Speaker, I ask un::mimou • consent to re-gentleman's dish'ict woulll not have very much chance to en- yi.·e and extend the remark that I made this morning on the gage in thi mining bosine s on their own account. Military Academy bill.

Mr. HAYDEN. There is not the least likelihood of any- The SPR.illER. Tlle O'entleman from Kansa asks unani-thing like that happening. · d d 1 · k 1\I

Mr. WALSH. They would have to lea~e the e varicu acres mollS consent to rense an cx:ten 118 remar on the ~ ilitary Academy bill. Is there objection?

containing these deposits to omebody who will be willing to There was no objection. operate it.

1\Ir. HAYDEN. There is no argument about that. MET..ULIFEROUS MIXER.US 0~ IKDll~~ RESERYATIONS. Mr. WALSH. And I do not suppo e the wheat farmers in the 1\Ir. l\lANN. 1\lr. Speaker, the bill now pBnding on the motion.

gentleman's district will be leasing mining lands and attempting to su pend t11e rules and pa · it is a bill to authorize mining on to gather gold and other minerals from the soil. They will the unallotted lands in Indian re eiTations. We have now in probably be leased to people who have a little knowledge of this the c~untry left, I believe-! do not know how Irulny Indian highly technical science of extracting these things from the reservations. I would like to ask the gentleman from Ari· enrtb. Is it not likely that these lands will be leased to large zona if he knows llow many Indian re~ervations there al·e where· mining interest ? . there is nnallotted land? ·

l\Ir. HAYDEN. I have no doubt but that large mining inter- Mr. HAYDEN. In the States that this act applies to--ests will attempt to obtain lease . The gentleman must remem- 1\Ir. MANN. Can not the gentleman tell me how mnny there ber that it usually takes a great deal of capital to develop min- are? · jug propertie.~, particularly copper mines. The chief concern of 1\Ir. HAYDEN. I <lo not believe anybody can. the Indians, however, is that use is made by somebody of the Mr. 1\lANN. I know the number stated in the report. undeveloped mineral resources of their reservations and that a Mr. CARTER of Oklahpma. I doubt very much, l\Ir. Speaker, proper royalty is paid for the privilege of mining thereon. if anybody could give that information to the gentleman.

lHr. WALSH. I suppose some of these mining interests have Mr. MANN. If I were on the Committee on Indian Affairs nenrly as much money as are in these tribal funds belonging to I would be able to give it to any Member of the House in one the Indians. 8econd, and I think the gentleman will be next year. Ask the

1\lr. COOPER of Wisconsin. 1\lr. Speaker, I want to ru;k the department to telL TI1ey know. gentleman fl·om Arizona a question. What provision is there There are about 30,000,000 acres, so the report says, of these in the bill which would require the le ·sees-these large inter- nnallotted Lwds in Indian reservations. All the rest of the ests, of which the gentleman himself has spoken-to develop the country is ppen to the people to explore for mining, either by land or give it up? And what is the period of limitation? the people who own the land or, if it is public land, anybody can· Otherwise there is going to be a grabbing of that Indian land, go and explore for mining ancl file a mining claim. But there is pos ibly, and then sitting down and doing nothing with it except little land left in the pos ession of the Indians; just a little .with such portions as they please. land, 30,000,000 acres, only a small amount compared '"ith the

Mr. HAYDEN. The same proYision is made here as is in the total amolmt in the country. coal, oil, and gas leasing bill, which is that when the mines are Th re is now pending before Cougres. a bill a ·king Congres -not being. worked the les ee mu t pay an annual rental for to reimburse the people who have gone out ·we ;t and started· the land covered by the lease. This is in the nature of a penalty mining clai.ms, to get these metals that are referred to in thi. · for failure to operate the mines. report; because. they said they did it out of pa.tt'iotic motives . Mr. STAFFORD. 1\fr. Speaker, ·will the gentleman yield? a · a war rnea.sure, and that it cost them money. Now, they ; Mr. HAYDEN. With pleasure. want Congress to pay them the money back. And at the samc-t Mr. STAFFOUD. ·we alllmow that there are mining propo- minute the same 'class of men want leave to run all over the sitions on these Indian lund that are of great value. But some unallott'ed lands in Indian reservations. I understand that the of them n.re more or Je s of a. lottery. Has it ever been con- Indians do not have many rights and never have Ilad in. this sidered p-racticable- from an industrial st.andpoint to have the country. But they ought to have a few rights still guar:urteed .terms for operating the mines based upon competitive bidding? to them. Here is an Indian reservation with unallotted lands,

~Ir. HAYDEN. This bill proviues that the Secretary of the where Ute Indians keep their cattle and their horses, and weInterior must collect a minimum royalty of 5 per cent of the appropriate every year large sums of money to help them stock net value of the minerals at the mine. He may make it as these una.llotted lands. Yet it i proposed to let Tom, Dick, and much higher as he pleases. Harry, and anybody else in the c01mtry who want<.; to, walk in

l\Ir. CARTER of Oklahoma. It has been the policy in the on these unallotted lands ancl explore for mineral . Of course, handling of the mining claim in the Indian Bureau and in · e-verybody knows that if yo11 have got a wheat field and you perthe Interior Department in the past not to submit the leasing to · mit anybody who pleases to go into the wheat field to e-xplor .. competitive bids, but we always submit the sales of the minernls you will not hrrve any wheat left, but you will have a row with to competitive bids. the people, and everybody who knows anything about the situa-

l\Ie. STAFFORD. This bill provides for the development of. tion knows that if yott allow Tom, Dick, and Harry to waJk in til€' mjning propet-ty by individuals or mining companies. It is . on these Indian reservations where the Indians are herding · not intended to sell the land. their stock, there will be a continuous -row af some kind between

~ ~r. CARTER of Oklahoma. ~o sales are include<l in this the invaders and the Indian owner . It is human nature. It JJ-Ll. can not be avo-ided.

:.'lh·. STAFFORD. As I · understand from the reading · of the Gentlemen say, " Oh, 'Yell; lmt t11e Indians ougllt not to- be bil l, there is no sale, but it is intended to grant an ab. oiute permitted to own a pi-ece of ground willi minerals beneath the right to an individual or corporation to do the prospecting and . ul"face which the white peof)le can not get at and u e." After to develop the mineral resources on. the unallotted land. all, gentlemen, the world wi:fi still be wagging after you and I

'l\Ir. CARTER of Oklahoma. That i · a correct statement. are gone. All the min-erals in the world are not c1 signed to l\Ir. HAYDEl..~. The title to tlh .. leased lands remains in the be u ed by the present generation. There will be need of

United States. these minerals wben our grarulclrildren and their descendants .' Ir. STA.FFORD. The title i. · tran fer.red 'to the l.essee. are yet coming along, nn<l tho e wl'lo think that we ought to uti-

l Mr. HAYDEN. Not at all. He has no· title to the land. lize every particle of minera1 re.·ou.rces to-day are n1i tal.:cn. 1\Ir. STAFFORD. Hut tlle title to tbe product is in the le ··:ce We ought not to do that.

nfter he mine~ the property. Now, everyone knows you <'an not provide fer the Eloing ot l\lr. CARTER of. Oklaholll!l. For the time. the lease. nms. this thing without trouble. This bill has been peulli:ng around·

'· Mr. STAFFORD · Then it is a perpetmLLlease:r .A.t least tJle.. .her a. long time. I is. a Yery impoi:tant mea:sure: A gen l es ee hns the right of renewal at the ex:pimtion of the term. tleman moyes to suspend the rules and pass it. It came liP. the

2636 KGRESSION tL- RECOR.D-HOUSE.

other day on a request to pass it by nanimons con:-:ent. I ob- - Thi~ hill provides that these lands may be leased by the Secjected. A biH of this sort, if it is to1 be passed under any CQn- retary of the Interior under rules and regulations to be preditions, ought to be passed after careful con ideration and proD- s<:riiJed by him at a royalty of not less than 5 per cent of the ei~ly safeguarded. It gives to any citizen of the United States, net value of the minerals. _It further provides for. a penalty

1 or to any as ociation of such persons, or to any corporation or- of 25 to GO cents and • 1 per acre in case the mineral is not ganized under the United States or _any State or Territo_ry mined for a certain length of time-or that is the effect of it. thereof, the right to go on any of the e unallOtted lands, and if I am interested in the measure purely from the standpoint of they make or claim to make a di coYery of minerals, then they the Indians, becau e in a great many reservations the Indians are given a part of the surface of the land to carry on mining think they have minerals in their lands that they want mined,operations. I do not think we can afford at this late _stage in so _that the royalties can be collected and given to them for the· our dealings with the Indians to rob them of ''hat they haYe 1mrpose of improving their allotments while they live. I symleft or to encourage or incite trouble in their lllidst. 'Ve are pathize with the conservati~n ideas of my friend from Illinois, asked -eYery year to appropriate a considerable sum of money but I think the present generation, whether· white or Inilian, _to keep liquor away from the Indians. Well, the Government have some rights to the treasures in the bosom of mother earth. · of the United States is going on a prohibition basi. , and I am l\:fr. COO PEn of Wisconsin. Will the gentleman yield? in favor of enforcing the prohibition law; . but eYeryone knows l\1r. CARTER of Oklahoma. I will. · tll.at whisky is one of the easiest things in the world to make. I ~Ir. COOPER of Wiscon in. What does the gentleman meau It does not take very much of an .outfit to make '-rhisky, ni1d by " net value" ? there will be whisky made in .the Indian territories or near them I 1\lr. CAllTEH. of Oklahoma. That would mean the Yalue after for many years to come. \Ve will UIJljropriate u large sum of tlle expenses of mining are taken out. money on the one hand to keep whisky awny from Indian~. and 1\lr. COOPEH. of Wisconsin. 'l'he Government of the United this bill propo ·es to invite eYery kin<l of a white man to walk States in the original Pacific railroad matter bud an agreein upon the unallotted lands of the Indians and, if he ~n do ment by whicll it was to get so much of the net revenue, but it without being caught, to furnish whisky to the Indians. Un- there was never any net revenue. They manipulated the exder this bill lle can go in legally. At the present time he can 11enscs so that the Government did. not get anything. The net not go in legally. It is his busine to keep off of that laml. cost could be manipulated so tllat the Government or the But if you pass this bill you make it pror>er for him to go in. Indians would be defrauded. If you catch him selling liquor to Indians you punish him, per- l\!1·. HAYDEN. The bill provides that there shail be a minihaps; or, I take it, under the new constitutional provision, if mum royalty · of G per cent and as much more as possible. In you catch him with whisky at all you can punish him. Rut this the "net value" et forth in this bill, as commonly underyou haYe got to catch him. Meanwhile the Indians get the :-:tood in the mining industry, means the value of the ore after whisky. deducting the co t of mining and tran portation. I took up . I resen·e the balance of my time. . the matter "\Yith the GeologiCal Survey and the Department of , The SPEAKER. The gentlem~n reserves 11 mmutes. tlle Interior, and they said that that "' as the customary form

Mr. HAYDEN. Mr. Speaker, 111 reply to the gentleman from of a mining lea e, and there would be no difficulty in it. Illinois [1\lr. 1\lA.NN], permit me to ~ay that evidently he has not Mr. CARTEH of Oklahoma. I call the attention of the "entleYery carefully read the provision · of this bill, because it has man to section 10, which gives to the Secretary of the Interior the been specificall~ amended to provide that prospecting and. ex- right to examine the books of the lessees and inve tigate their acploration for mmerals may be made only on such resetTahons counts. Thi hould be sufficient guaranty of an accurate accountor 11arts of ~·e. enations as may be de ignated by th~ Secretary ing, and other provisions require pt·ornpt payment, with proper _of the Interior. . . penalties. Thi same plan lias been thoroughly tested in leasin_g

Mr. MANN. I am perfectly "·ell nware of that lWOVISlOll. of Choctaw and Chickasaw coal lands in Oklahoma. It ha · This grant authority to the Secretm:y of the Int_erior to throw worked Yery uccessfully and beneficially to the Indians, an<l open the unallotted lands on all Indmn reserratwn , and I ns- Yery little complaint has been made concerning nonpayment of sume that tbat may be done. royalties for coal mined. The Pacific railroad mutter was such

l\fr. HAYDEN. On the conh·ary, at the_ Secretary '~ sugg~s- a loose arrangement that it does not present a parallel case. tion, the bill has been a~e~ded. so a to forbH~ un~uthonzed mm- l\Ir. MAl"''N. l\Ir. Speaker, I yield three minutes to the gentle-ing. Secretary Lane said m h1s report on this bill: man from Massachusetts [l\fr. \V ALSH].

The latter amendm_ent is suggested f<:>r ~he rt>~son tba~ tb~re may_ be l\Ir. \VALSH. l\Ir. Speaker, will the gentleman from Arizona, case where the opemng of !111 lands WltblD a gtv~n Incllan I~servatwn \Tho a...-nres ed a willin crness to answer questions st t I th to ..,~--ploration aml prospecting would be destructive of the rights and '-"JJ • .. o . ' a e lOW e intire ts of the In-dians or inadvisable from the standpoint of public term wa arnved at by which these lea ·es are to run-30 years? policy, anc.l the proposed amendment gives some discretion to th~ officers l\Ir. HAYDEN. When I originally introduced the bill I fol-of the United States in that connection. lo,Ted the form of the 'Yater-power bill and made the term of the

The gentleman from Illinois also state that the passage of lease 50 :rears. In the last Congress there was objection in the thi. act may encourage the sale of liquor to the Indians, because House by the gentleman from \Visconsin [l\fr. STAFFORD] and it will giTe to anyone the right to go upon these unallotted after ,,-e talked it oYer he offered an amendment reducing tho Jands. Let me say to the gentleman that in all my experience term to 30 year . I never knew of anyone who was required to obtain a permit l\ir. WALSH. Then it was the idea of the gentleman from in order to enter an Indian reserYation. People travel through Wisconsin? them and across them every day in the yea·r, so that this act will 1\Ir. HAYDEN. His motion was adopted by the House. not in any way add to the present facilitie for intercourse with l\lr. STAFFORD. I am ·surprised that the gentleman from the Indians and will not in the slightest degree make it easier l\lassaclmsetts doe· not recollect tbe incident. It ,,as sugge ted to introduce intoxicating liquors into the Indian country. that 50 years was too long for a lease to run to the individual · · Now I yield three minutes to the gentleman from Oklahoma developer before the Secretary of the Interior had a right to [1\lr. CARTER]. reYise the royalty. l\Iy judgment was 20 years, but when '"e - :!\lr. CARTEH. of Oklahoma. l\lr. Speaker, there arc three came to consider 1;11e trouble the developer would be put to and

kind. of Indian reservations-what is known as the fee reser- the larg.e amount myested, we thought 30 years was a fair term vation the treaty reservation, and the ExecutiYe order reser\a- to permit the development of the property. tion. 'A fee reseryation is that to which the Indians own the l\Ir. WALS~. Doe~ the ~entleman from Wi con in recall that title of the land in fee. A treaty reservation is one where the the language m the bill which passed the House with reference title to the land is vouchsafed to them by treaty provision. An to the length of time \Yas identical with the language in this ExecutiYe order reservation is one created by Executive order measure? of the President of the United States, the Indians heing placed JI.Ir. S'l'.AFFORD. I think the term was 30 years. upon H and holding their title by the grace of the GoYernment. 1\lr. WALSH: Yes; but this term is not 30 years; it is 300 This bill applies principally to Executive order reservations. rears. It provides that the lessees can request an extension of In some cases where there are no provisions now for mining 10 years upon reasonable terms and get it. I do not think that this mav extend the right to treaty reservations; but the point ,...-as the language in the other bill. I wish to make is that practically all the reserYations in the l\1r. HAYDEN. That was the exact language of the bill which State of Oklahoma are either fee reservations or treaty reser- passed this Hon e in the last Congress. yations. Therefore this bill does not apply to the State I haYe l\1r. WALSH. 'Vhat is the idea of fixing any term at all? the honor to repre ent, and Oklahoma is not enumerated among Mr. HAYDEN. l\ry own preference would be that the lea es those States affected by this measure. In the light of these should be for indeterminate periods, subject to revi ion at tated conditions, I hope I may speak without selfish interest and intenals by the Secretary of the Interior,. but the Hou ·e has purely iu the interest of the Indian. adopted the plan provided in this bill.

1919~ CONGRESSIONAL RECOllD-· fi-Ot:SE. 2637. Mr. W~~LSH. The gentleman is familiar with the lands ru1<-l

miuing operrrtion~. I notjce that they omitted the grent State of Idaho :md the State of Oregon and they were put in by amend·ment. 'Vhat is tlle .idea of .giYing them 80 acres additional to tl1e land where the minerals are"?

in Arizona and desired to lmYc antltority to mine upon that Jand, nnu the hill as originally introduce<l <-lid not apvly to any }>art of the country except Arizona, if I recollert rightlr. Is not that correct? · ,

Mr. H...<\.YDEN. Tlmt IH"OYi ·ion is copied from the potn:h 1aw, avLH·oved in October 1917. Oregon and I<.L'l.llO llave l>eeu included in this hill at the rcque t of the Repre ntatives "from those States.

The SPEAKER The time of the gentleman from l\Iassa-chusetts has expired.

l\lr. WALSH. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman from lllinois yield to me?

Mt'. MANN. I yielU the gentleman one minute more. l\Ir. WALSH. Can the gentleman state wl1at the idea is of

giving th~m 80 acre.":! in ndclition to thabland whet'e the minerals are?

Mr. HAYDEN Suppose that 3. stamp mill was needecl to crush the ore. lt ·s necessacy to have the use of orne of the surface of the g1·ound upon which ·to locate it. Very frequently ores are given treatment ncar the mines .and it is .necessary to have buildings for that purpose. It -sometimes .happens that the mine is located on a m.ountain side where it is impossible to' erect buildings, and the ore must be transpDrted ·by a. tram, ' or in some other wa,y, down to where the "buildings caii be· located.

1\Ir. WALSH. That would be sufficient to ;put up a consider-able mill.

l\1r. HAYDEN. The Secretary of the Interior doe not have to grant the right to use the full 80 acres. That is a maximum limit.

Mr. WALSH. That is quite it large limit, H seems to me. They could build a mill large enough on 10 acres, could they not? You are not only taking this land away for 30 years, where the minerals are, but -you take 80 acres somewhere -else, probably the most valuable land these poor Indians mny have for grazing or for ngl"iculture or something el e, .and tnrn it over for a mill.

Mr. HAYDEN. 1\Ir. Speaker, I am quite positive ·that the gentleman from Massachusetts never saw 11. mining camp_ or surely he would not have made that ·statement.

1\Ir. WALSH. Oh, yes; I have ~een them in the gentleman's own country.

The SPEAKER pro tempore (l\[r. Cms.P). The time of the gPntleman from 1\Ias achusetts has again ex.pir d.

~Ir. 1\IA~"'N. 1\Ir. Speaker, theTe are a great mn:uy things in this bill t11at ought to be carefully e~lained, and it ought to be amended if it is 1'o be passed at all, although I do not think that it ought to pass at all.

l\lr. HAYDEN. 1\Ir. Speaker, .may I sngge ·t to tile gentleman from Illinoi that two yenr • ·ago he was present on the floor of the Honse when this bill came up for consiueration. He did not then object. He lms had every opportunity to offer all of the amenclments that could possibly be presented, but he then permitted the bill to l)U.SS by unnn:imous consent. I am frank to say that I am very mucl!. surp1·iseti to find any 1

objection upon his part now. He has l1ncl ample time to con- 1

sider this legislntion and I--l\Ir. 1\IANN. l\1r. Speaker, I objected the other <lay. I re

member the bill. I objected to this bill several time,· in former · Congresses.

"l\1r. HAYDE~. Oh, the gentleman is mistaken. 1\Ir. 1\IANN. And the gentleman knows that I did. 1\Ir. HAYDEN. The gentleman will fail to find anywl1ere iu

tile Co ~aREssiUN AL RECOliD where he ever objected to the con· slderation of this bill except two weeks ago to-drry. I llaYe kept close track •of this legislation antl I know what I am ·talking about.

1.\Ir. 1\1ANN. The gentlemun is mistaken. Iu the closing hours of a Congress, with plenty of other work to uo, I did not . object to the passage of this bill in the House, knowing that it was as dead as a doornail, whether it pas ed tlu·ough that door going that way or whether it passed through this door , going up to the Clerk's room.

Mr. HAYDE:N. This legislation was not con. illered in the closing l1om·s of a OongTess. The bill p~sJed the lion. e on the 4th day of September, 191G. There was plent.r of time to consider it in the Senate. The bill was promptl~T reporteu- to tile , Senate, hut because of an unfortunate filibu ter against the shipping bill it <liu not become n law.

~fr. 1\.IAl\'"N. The bill was dead. Thi · is nn olU bill, :My recollection is Sairly good about the e things. The gentleman ]lft !': been trying to pa!':: this bill for a good while. Somebody ; wi tll a greed~- C'ye looked 6\·er . ·orne of the lndlan land allotted

Mr. HAYDEN. Yes; and at the request of tile Interior De4

partment it wa · ::tiL"tmu d to CO\et· the whole country. 1\Ir. 1\IAl\"'N. 011, yes; the Interior Dl'partment was not ill4

clined to favor the bill in the first in.-.:tnnce, and I regret that Members of Congre:s go np to the Secretary of the Interior or to the 'ommis ioner of Lands and persuade him to faYor bills which he first is inclined to oppose.

l\Ir. HAYDEN. l\Ir. , 'peaker, will the gentleman yielU? l\Ir . .1\l.A.i~. Does the gentleman want to use his own time? 1\Ir. HAYDEN. Not if -the gentleman will yield. l\Ir. 1\IANN. The Interior Department, in order to let itself

down en y, being utterly lmable to defend the original propo· sitlon, suggested to rna ke this bill generaLtbroughout the eoun· try, and even then <lid not suggest that it ·be applied to .Idaho nnd Oregon. I do not lwow whether th':! gcnUemen who had the greeuy eye will get a chuuce down there or not. I do not -nccuse the gentleman from Arizona--

l\Ir. HAYDEN. I thank the gentleman. Mr. M.illiN. · lie repre ents his State, nml the peopl-e with

the greedy eyes who go to their Repre entative and urge him to offer a bill, and they do not find it yery hard usually to persuade him that the bill is correct, wherever he comes f rom. But, after all, the question is :whether -we will permit these Indian reserva· tions to be invaded and thus stir up trouble, practically destroy the reservations so far as the unallotted lands are · concerned, upon the provision that we pay to the l:ndlan fund 5 per cent of the net value of the minerals. FiYe per cent of the net value! Why, the GoYernment of ' the United StateN c~arges IL:ore tha11 that as an income tax. The net value is arrived at after all the expense are ·paid. Then you aTe going to get r per cent of that. The man who goes in and steals the land gets nineteen-twentieths of the value ·and the Indians who own the land -get one-twentietlL It will not hurt to have this bill laid over ; it will not dnma·ge anybody if he doe not get on this land to-morrow. I hope the rules will not -be suspended and the bill pa. setl. I re erve the remainder of my time.

Mr. HAYDEN. 1\lr. Speaker, how much time is tllcre remain-ing?

Tile SrEAKEn pro tempore. The gentleman from Illinoif-4 has three miuutes remaining n1H1 the gl'nl1£'m:m from Arizomt four minutes.

1\lr. HAYD~. Doe. the gentleman ft•om lllinoi.· intC'ntl to u ·e his time?

l\1r. 1\IA.:N'N. Well, I do not know. 1\lr. JOHNSON of \Vashington. 1\lr. Speaker, I woulil Ufw to

ask the gentleman from Arizona a question. 1\Ir. HAYDEN. I shall be very glad to ~~jel<J to the gentleman. l\fr. JOHNSON of Wa hington. In tile State of Washington

there are a number of these rese~Tations where the Indians have been praying that they shall recei\e allotments, nnd I was wondering if thi · question o.E mineraL" would. impair the future chances to have Janus allotted to the Indian._?

l\lt·. HAYDEN. If there are mjnerals iu the ground un· doubtedly snell lands would not be allotted, because the rule is that mineral rights arc reserved for the tril.Jc as a whole, an(l anything derived from the minerals goe · to the credit ·of the tribe. •

1.\Ir. JOlli'\SON of 'Vashinbrton. The sruue thing applies to timber; but the e Inujans have had this dream 11eld out to them, that in time, through educa;tion and otherwj e, they would soon be competent to come into their O"\Yn; and. I am . wondering whether they would be pleased to find same day when tlley come into their own it will all be len ed. Is not that one objection?

Mr. H...<\.YDEN. Not to thi legislation, because if mine· are developed the members of the tribe would probably be recei~ing more from the royalties than they could get from such lands in any other way.

The SPEAKER pro· tempore. Th0 question i · on the motion of th gentleman from ~ rizona to su·~pcml ihe rule· and 11ass the bill.

The question wn. taken, an<l the Chair anuonnc<.'l1 that the Chair -was in doubt. .

Tlle House again diYiu<.'<l; OJHl ther "\\'N·e--a:res 2~, uoes 2G. The SPEAKER pro tempon~. 'l'IYO-third ·not haYin~ Yoted iu

favor of the motion-- · · · 1\Ir. Hi YDR.."V. l\Ir. ·Speaker, I ask for t:e1leL"s. :l\Jr. ~LWil.ker, I

make the point of or<ler tbcre i no quorum pr ·ent. . : The SPEA_KEU pro tempoee. Evide)ltly •tl1 re is no quoruu·l

present. The Doorl;:ee11e·r w.ill close the uoor-s,· the Sergeant .u.t Arms will notify ab ·entee , .and the Clet:k .will cnll tiH~ roll.

. 2638 . ~ '.J .. : • ..;~l _: CONGRESSI-()_NAL :P~CORD-HOUSE. · .·. ~- FEBRUARY 3~

. The questiQn was taken ; and there were-yens 168, nays 90, . answered "present" 1, not voting 170,· ns follo"·s :

- Alexander- -Almon Ashbrook Aswell Austin

· Ayres Barkley Bell Beshlin

· Black Blackmon Bland, Va. Blanton Brand Burnett Byrnes, S. C. Byrns, Tenn. Candler, Miss. Can trill Caraway Carter, Okla. Cary

handler, Okla. hnrch

Clark, Fla. Classon Claypool Cleary Coady Connally, Tex:. t!onnelly, Kans . Crisp Decker Dempsey Denton Dkkinson

.Dlll Dixon

.Dominick Doolittle

·Doremus Dupre

Bael· JHand, Ind. Browning Rut-roughs Butler Campbell, Kans. Cannon Clark, Pa. ·C:ooper, W . Ya. Cooper, Wis. Copley Crago Cramton Currie, Mich. Curry, Cal. Dnle Dallinger Dads Denison

. JJillon Dowell nunn Dyer

Anderson Anthony Bacharach Bankhead Ham bart Beakes Benson Birch Booher Borland Rowers Britten Brodbeck Browne Brumbaugh Buchanan Caldwell

ampbell, Pa. Carew c a rlin Carter, Mass. Chandler, N. Y,

ol!ier Cooper, Ohio Costello Cox: Crosser Darrow Davey Delaney Dent Dewalt Dies Donovan Dooling

. Doughton Drane Drukk~ ~a~an ~

YEAS-168. Eagle Ellsworth Elston Evans Fairchild, B. L. Fairfield Fisher Fordney li'oster lfrench li'uller, Mass. Gallagher Handy Gard Garner Garrett, Tenn. Glynn Goodwin, Ark. Gordon Gray, Ala. Greene, Mass. Hamlin Hard;v . Harnson, 'a. llaskell Hawley Hayden Heflin Hensley Hilliard Holland Holling worth Houston Huddleston Hull, 'l'enn. Ilumphr(;'ys Husted Jgoe .lacoway .Tame .Johnson, Ky. .Jones

Keating Kehoe Kelly, Pa. Kennedy, H. I. Key, Ohio Kincheloe Kinkaid Larsen Lazaro Lea. al. Little Littlepage Lonergan McCllntic McKeown Madden Mansfield Aart!n Mays Milltr, "\lash. Mondell Montague Moon Morgan Mott N(;'cly r'tlfield U:iver, .'\Ia. Olney Osborne O'Shaun(;'~ ··y Overmyer Overstreet Parker, N. Y. Phelan Platt Polk Quin , Rag. dalf' Rainey, H. T. Raker Randall

Hay burn Robinson Uomjue

.House Saunders, Ya. Hcott, Iowa Shallenberger Sherwood • Lnnott Sisson Slayden S:nall Hmith, Idaho ~mith, C. B. Snook Snyder Steagall Stedman Stephens, Kebr. Stevenson Sumners 'l'ague Taylor, Colo. Tl:Jompson 'l'illman Timberlake Tinkham Vinson Wn.lton Watkins Watson, Ya. Weaver Welling WeUy Whaley Wheeler Williams Wilson, La. Wilson, Te.x. ~~go Wright

NAYS-90. Elliott Essen Fairchild, G. W. Foss Frear l•'u ller, III. Good Gould Graham, Ill. Green, Iowa Hadley Hamilton, l\.Iich. Her cy I licks Hull, Iowa .Johnson, ""·ash. .Tun I Kiess, Pa. King Knutson Kraus Lampet·t Langley

.ANSWERED

Lehlbach London J.undeen McCulloch McKenzie Magee Mann Map~s Mason ~fOOl'C, l'a. Moores, Ind. Nelon, A. P. Nichols. Mich. Parker, N . .J. Peters Powers Purnell Ramsey RamsPycr Rodenberg Rogers Rose Sandet·s, Ind.

" PRE ENT '-1.

Scott. !\1ich. Siegel Slemp Sloan Smith, Mich. SneH Stafford Stin(;'ss ~trong Sweet Temple · 'l'ilson TownCL' Vestal Voigt Volstead Walsh Ward Watson. Pa. White, Me. Woou, Intl.

Reavis NOT VOTING-170.

Edmonds I.Cmerson Esch Estopinal Fan· Ferris li'ess l"ields !flood Flynn :b'ocht l•'mncis l ' reeman Gallivan Garland Uat-rett, Tex:. Gillett Godwin, N.C. Goodall Graha.m, Pa, Gray, N.J. Greene, Vt. · Gregg Griest Griffin Hamill llamilton, N. Y. Harrison, Miss. Hastings Haugen Hayes Heaton Heintz

· Helm Helvering Hood Howard Hutchinson

.,J~eland, -·· ·

. Johnson, S.Dak. Porter Kahn Pou Kearns Pratt Kelley, Mich. Price Kennedy, Iowa Rainey, J. W. Kettner Rankin Kitchin Reed Kreider Riordan La Follette Roberts LaGuardia Rowe

t~:h~1~· ~~b~;nd Lever Rucker Linthicum Russell Lobeck Sabath Longworth Sanders, La. Lufkin Sanders, N. Y. Lunn Sanford McAndrews Schall McArthur Scully McCormick Sears McFaduen Sells McKinley Shackleford McLaughlin, 1\Iich.Sherley McLaughlin, Pa. Shouse McLemore Sims liiaher Smith, T. F. Merritt Steele Miller, Minn. Steenerson Morin Stephens, Miss. tfudd Sterling Nelson, .J. 1. S<Jllivan Nicholls, S. C. Swift Nolan Switzer Norton ~l'aylor, Ark. Oliver, N. Y. Templeton Padgett Thomas Paige Treadway Park .Van Dyke

Vare Wa on Winslow Young, Tex. Venable Webb Woods, Iowa Zihlman WaJdow \Vhite, Ohio Woodyard Walker Wilson, Ill. Young, N.Dak.

So, two-thirds not ha\ing voted in faYor thereof, the motion to suspend the rules was rejected.

The Clerk announced the follo\\ing pairs: Until further notice: Mr. SIMs with 1\Ir. Escn. 1\lr. BooHER With Mr. TREADWAY. l\Ir. ESTOPIN.AL With 1\lr. EMERSON, l\Ir. HELM with Mr. LUFKIN. 1\fr. 0ARAWAY With Mr. BROWNE. l\Ir. CAREW with Mr. GooDALL. 1\lr. BRUMBAUGH -With 1\Ir. CoSTELLO. Mr. SULLIVAN with 1\Ir. LAGUARDIA. .1\fr. NicHoLLs of South Carolina witlll\Ir. G.A.BLAND. 1\Ir. DoNOVAN with Mr. H.unLTON of New York. Mr. SCULLY With Mr. BACHARACH. Mr. HARRISON of Mississippi with Mr. REAVIS. · Mr. WHITE of Ohio with Mr. NORTON. Mr. Pou with 1\Ir. WooDYARD. Mr. llisn ~as with Mr. WINSLow. 1\lr. McANDREWS with Mr. McKINLEY. l\Ir. Bt;CHANAN wHh 1\fr. HUTCHINSON. 1\Ir. JOHN W. RAINEY With l\Ir. w· ASON. l\1r. YOUNG of Texas ·with 1\:lr. ANDEUSON. 1\Ir. RUBEY with l\Ir. \V A.RD. 1\Ir. LEVER With Mr. HAUGEN. Mr. LEE of Georgia with l\Ir. 1\.IcL.AUGHLIN of l\lichigan. · Mr. BENSON With Mr. KEARNS. . l\Ir. CAI.D\YELL with 1\Ir. Brncn. Mr. DEwALT with Mr. BowERs. Mr. DOOLING with 1\!r. DARRow. Mr. DouoHTON with Mr. EmroNns. Mr. DRANE with l\Ir. GRAHA:u of Pennsylvania. 1\.fr. EAGAN with 1\fr. GRIEST. Mr. GALLIVAN with Mr. HAYES. Mr. GRIFFIN with Mr. IRELAND. 1\Ir. HAMILL with l\!r. KREmER. Mr. DENT with Mr. KAHN. Mr. :KETTxER with 1\Ir. McARTHUR. Mr. LEsHER with Mr. McFADDEN. 1\Ir. LOBECK with 1\fr. MERRITT. Mr. LINTHICUM with 1\fr. 1\IUDD. Mr. LUNN with Mr. PAIGE. l\fr. MAin.~ with Mr. REED. Mr. OLIVER of New York witlt Mr. RowE. Mr. PADGETT With Mr. ROWLA -n. Mr. PARK with 1\Ir. SANDERS of New York. 1\fr. PRicE with Mr. SANFORD. 1\fr. RIORDAN with Mr. SELLS. Mr. SA.NDERS of Louisiana with 1\lr. SwiFT. 1\:Ir. SABATH with 1\fr. SWITZER.

_ 1\fr. SEARs with 1\Ir. V ARE.

l\lr. THOMAS F. SMITH with Mr. WILSON of Illinois. 1\fr. STEELE with Mr. YoUNG of North Dakota. Mr. WEBB with l\Ir. ZIITLMA.N . 'l'he SPEAKER A quorum is present. The Doorkeeper will

open the doors. LEA YE OF ABSENCE.

1\lr. DAVEY, by unanimous consent, was granted. lea-ve of absence for fi\e days on account of death in family.

LATE SENATOR RuSTING. Yr. COOPER of Wi consin. l\fr. Speaker-· -The SPEAKER. For what purpose does the gentleman rise? 1\Ir. COOPER of Wisconsin. I moYe that Sunday, February

23, be set aside as n day for the delivery of addresses on the life, character, nnd public services of the late Senator PAUL BUSTING, of Wisconsin.

The SPEAKEH. The gentleman from Wisconsin asks unanimous consent that Sunday, February 23, 1919, be set apart for eulogies on Senator RUSTING. Is there objection? [Aftee n pause.] Tire Chair hears none.

THE RUSSIAN LOAN. 1\lr. PHELA.l~. 1\lr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to

speak for 10 minutes relative to the Russian loan. 'l'he SPEAKER. The ·gentleman from Massachusett s a sks

unanimous consent to proceed for not more than 10 minutes on the subject of the Russian loan. I s there objection?

1\fr. KNUTSON. ReserYing the right to object, I "-onlll like to know from what source the gentleman has his information?

Mr. PHELAN. From the 'l'reasm:y Department. It is from the Assistant Secretary, Mr. H.athbone, to whom tbe Seeretill':'l' referred me. ·

1919. .CONGRESSIONAL-RECORD-HOUSE. 2639 The SPEAKER. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The

Chair hears none. Mr. PHELAN. Mr. Speaker, there have beep. some state

ments made this afternoon ·relative to our dealings with Russia on the matter of credits extended by this Gove-r:nment to that country: I shall not undertake to rehearse what they are, because they were made here on this floor this afternoo11. _All I desire to do is to make a simple statement of fact anll show some incontrovertible facts.

By act of Congress of April 24, 1917, and by subsequent acts, this Government was authorized to advance credits to certain foreign countries among our cobelligerents. Acting under those acts, the President approved loans to Russia to an amo-rint of $325,000,000. When he gave that apvroval he simply indicated that he was willing that such credit should be granted. We did not give the Russian Government the ri~ht to get that money, but there had to be a further act by the Secretary of the Treasury. The Secretary of the Treasury, in pursuance of the

· po,ver given him, made arrangements whereby $187,720,750 was advanced to Russia. Every single dollar ·of that money was advanced prior to December 1, 1917. That is over a year ago. Not one cent has been advanced by this Government to anybody connected with Russia, representing the Russian Government, out of the credits authorized, according to my statement just lllade.

'l'here was a balance left of $137,270,250, which might be \oaned to Russia; but the Secretary of the Treasury never has loaned any of that money, and Russia is not entitled to one cent of it until the Secretary of the Treasury says that Russia may get it. The last advance made to Russia was on Noy-ember 15. 1917.

_I said _a moment ago that no payment was made after December 1, 1917, but I now have the exact date. The last advance made to Russia was November 15, 1917 . . The amount of that advance was $1,329,750, and on that same date we received a trifle more than that in interest due us.

l\lr. DILLON. \Vill the gentleman yield to me for a brief question?

Mr. PHELAN. I can not yield now. . - l\lr. DILLON. I wanted to know who paid the interest.

Mr. PHELA..."N'. That is not material, so long as it was paid by somebody representing the Russian Government. · Ar. DU.LON. I think it is material to know who paid the interest on this loan. ·

'.file SPEAKER. The gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. PHF.LAN] decline.s to yield.

Mr. PHELAN. What I am stating are facts, and not subject to controversy.

Now, in November, 1917, when the so-called Kerensky government came to grief in Russia, this Government, through its Treasury Department, made arrangements with those who were representing what had been the government in Russia whereby they promised to use . what funds they had on hand to pay the Americans to whom they owed money . . As a result of that agreement practically all, if not all, Of the claims of Americans against Russian contractors and others have been liquidated. I mean contracts for war suvplies.

That, briefly, sets .forth thE' situation. Therefore there ne\er could have been paid out of our Treasury anything to anybody after November 15, 1917, relative to this malter, and nobody in any way could have obtained and nobody has obtained anything from our Treasury Department to pay any of the recent indebtedness due on· any of the bonds previously put out by the Russian Government . .

Mr. DILLON. Now will the gentleman yield to me? Mr. PHELAN. I will be glad to. Mr. DILLON. Will the gentleman tell the House who paid

the interest upon that loan? Mr. PHELAN. I presume the official representatives of the

Russian Government paid it. Mr. DILLON. Can the gentleman be more definite? I saw

a statement in the papers that the interest on th~ loan we made to Russia had been paid. I want to know specifically who paid it . . Mr. PHELAN . . What interest do you refer to? .

Mr. DILLON. Interest upon the loan. Mr. PHELAN. There are several interest dates. What pay-

ment are you talking about? . Mr. DILLON. The interest <lue on those loans. Mr. PHELAN. From time to time? :Mr. DILLON. Yes. . Mr. PHELAN. Recently it has been paid, I presume, by those

representing the old Kerensky government. Mr. DILLON. That is what I wanted to know.

LVII-168

Mr. PHELAN. I am not certain of that, but I presume it has. Mr. MANN and Mr. MASON rose. The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman yield, and to whom? . Mr. · PHELAN. I will yield to the gentleman from Illinois

[Mr. MANN]. -Mr. MANN. I think that the gentleman from Massachusetts

[l\1r. PHELAN] was not here when the question arose this afternoon, because he has not replied at all to what I understood was the charge. I understood it was charged that when the Kerensky government in Russia fell the agents of that government here had in their possession a large amount of money, which had been advanced by the United States to Russia; that the Treasury Department insisted that that money should be used in America to pay contractors and others; and that among the others who were paid were the mi:m who held the interest coupons on the Russian bonds; and that, in effect, the Government of the United States had advanced money to Russia for which it has yet received no security, then in the hands of the Kerensky government here; and that that money was applied by the direction of, or with the consent of, the Treasury Department to pay the interest on Russian bonds. Now, I do not say whether that is an offense or not, but I think we ought to know whether those are the facts or not. .

Mr. WINGQ. Mr. Sveaker, will the gentlema~ yield? · Mr. PHELAN. Yes. _ Mr. WINGO. I would like to ask the gentleman f1·om Illinois

it the statement made by the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MASON] did not consist o! reading a newspaper article with reference to the payment ot interest on January 10?

Mr. MASON. January 17 ot this year; January 17, 1919. Mr. WINGO. In other words, I understand the gentleman

from Illinois [Mr. MASO)I"] read an article which charged, inferentially at least, that the United States Treasury had been dr~wn upon on the lOth day of last month to pay interest on $50,00(),000 of Russian bonds issued before we got into the war.

Mr. MANN. I did not so understand it. The gentleman may know.

The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Massachusetts has expired.

Mr. MANN. · And the question still remains unanswered. Mr. M4-SON. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that

the gentleman from Massachusetts may have fiy-e minutes further.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Illinois asks unanimous consent that the gentleman from Massachusetts ha\e five minutes more. Is there objection?

There was no objection. Mr. 1\IASON. All I want is just to know the facts. If the

Treasury Department could furnish you · this-they have had several days since I made the original charge, and I made tne charge at that time upon information, stating frankly to the House that I had no way of proving the statement except newspaper reports.

Mr. PHELAN. Did the gentleman ask the Treasury for information subsequent to that?

Mr. MASON. Only in that way. _ Mr. PHELAN. Then, you have lllade the statelllent a~ain

without asking the Treasury authorities to furnish the fac ts ? Mr. _MASON. I have IllUde the statement and demanded to

know the truth, and I expected you or some other gentleman representing the administration upon the Committee on Banking and Currency to give me the information within the last 10 days.

Mr. PHELAN. \Vhat is the information you want? Mr. 1\IASON. I want to know if it is not true and has not the

Secretary of the Treasury stated before your committee that they loaned this money? Did they not turn over to the credit of the Kerensky agent here $187,000,000?

Mr. PHELAN. Approximately that, to the provisional government.

1\Ir. MASON. Now, I think this newspaper editorial is susceptible of two constructions. You read it in one way and it sounds as though the money to pay the interest came out of the Treasury of the United States direct, but I think the spirit of the article charges that the agent of the Kerensky government had this ·money left over in his possession, the $187,000,000. That was drawn from the Treasury. It was deposited somewhere, God only knows where. There has been no answer to that proposition.

Mr. PHELAN. Proba}?ly those who deposited the money know as well as God knows where they deposited it.

Mr. MASON. But they are in the same position with God as 'to telling. They will not tell, and neither will He, and you can not find out. [Laughter.]

2640 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE: FEBRUARY 3~.' 1

l\Ir. PHELAN. I am not speci:a.Uy interested in that; bUt come to the point. What is it you want to know'?

Mr. MASON. I ·want to know ·if 1t ·Is not true, as stat.ed by this article, that the interest on this $50,()00,000 of bonds that was held by the National City Bank of New York was I>aid on the 17th of January as stated--

.Mr. PHELAN. Whatyear? · Mr~ MASON. This year, last month; January of this year.

These bonds, drawing 6~ per cent interest, were sold on the market at 48 cents, and th:en this payment of interest of -6! per cent was made. I ask you to state n,ow whether you know or iDOt th-at that interest "\Yas paid out of th~ money held by the Russian agent in this countJ.·y~ with the approval and eonsent of the Secretary of Uu~ 'Treasury. That is what I want to know.

1\lr. PHELAN. I will answer· the quQsti-on. I simply wanted ; to wait until I got the .questi-on -developed.

I will say first of all that I think the inference might well he taken from the newspaper .article and the gentleman's rem-arks that subsequ.ent to Nov-ember, 1917, money in the Uaited States Treasury had been paid out to meet these interest obligati-ons referred to. That was one reason I gave particular attention to the date on which the last payment was made. Now, to come to the gentleman's question, I think I can answer most of it if I can not answer all.

After the fall of the Kerenslry government there were left in the bands of Bakbmeteil' and some of the ·other representatives -of this government certain balances, unquestionably, of funds . \vhich had been advanced by tllis countl':y to Russia. ' 1\lr. MASON. Yes.

Mr. PHELAN. I may disagree with the gentleman in this r espect, and probably do, but I tltink t11e money was properly ndvanced to Rus ia at that time.

Mr. 1\IA.SON. I am not questioning that. Mr. PHELAN. In addition to that, our Government, as I ,

stated, provided very ca.refu11y that, first of all, those contractors to whom that Government owed money or to whom it was nnder obligations should be paid. So they had the balance · of the money advanced by this Government, and they also l:md tn a fund mon.ey obtained from the sale of goods and merchan- · elise of various kinds which they had contracted for and obtained the title to, and, in addition, they had fllllds receiv.ed from private sources, perhaps some of their own funds, perhaps from money that had been .advanced by Great Britain, because Great Britain had advanced considerable to Russia before we started in. But, at any rate, they had a certain amount ·of money from various sources, ~doubtedly including some that we had .advanced. Now, · our Government, as I say, required that they should pay -our American 'Contractors. Whether or not at that time they required that they should pay the interest -on bonds held by people in this count-ry issued by the Russian Government prior to the time when we advanced that .credit to them I can not say for certain, but I think they might very w-ell have done so. ·

Mr. MASON. But you have no knowledge on that? Mr. PHELAN. I have no knowledge that there was any un

derstanding UI>On the part of our Treasury Department that they should do it. I have an understanding that our Treasury D-epartment, so far as it could, endeavored in every way possible, ond I think properly, to provide for those to whom the Russian Government owed money in this country. ·

The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman has again expired. Mr. LONGWORTH. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent

that the gentleman may have five minutes more. The SPE.A.KER. The gentleman from Ohio asks that the

time of the gentleman from Massachusetts be extended fi\"'e min-utes. Is there objection? · ·

There was no objection. r 1\fr. LONGWORTH. The inference to be drawn from the remarks of the gentlema,n from Illinois [1\fr. MAsoN], and certainly from the article he read, was thaYthis G-overnment having nuthorized a loan -of $300,()00~000, in round numbers, t~ the Russian Government, ahd having advanced, in 1·ound numbers, $187,000,000, that the balanee, about $130,000,000, now in the United States Treasury, was being used to pay the interest on bonds heretofore, and before w.e went into the war, issued by the Russia,n Government. I want to ask the gentleman whether · lle will not <leny that that is the fact.

1\fr. PHELAN. Certainly. I drew the inference from . it myself, and therefore I was a-ctuated to stand· here and make the statement. It may be that som"€ .other int~-pi-eta.tlori can ·be given to the article and a -different int-erpretation giv-en to the remarks of the gentleman from IDi,n-ois, but I think that was the .t.nference that the average man would make from that state_Elent! I am not sure ~hat _on the part of somebody-! make_ no

. . ~ clmrges against the 'gentleman from Illinois '[Mr. MASoN]-! that that was intended to be the inference.

Mr. PLATT. Will the gentleman yield? 1\Ir. P!HELAN. I yield to the gentleman from New York. Mr. PLATT. Was not this about what happened in regard

to the funds that the Russian representatives have had since then? There was at the fall -of the Kerensky government fi larg~ number of outstanding oontracts made by the Russian Government, partly on the credit which the United States had advanced and partly on the eredit which Great Britain had advanced. · 1

Mr. PHELAN. That is true. • Mr. PLATT. And a large par-t of the contracts had been ful

filled-that i~, loe.o:motives had been 'buUt and were ready to send over, and .also war supplies. "Our ·Government required the Russian representatives to settle np a.ll those contracts, and in settling them there was a large number of supplies nearly paid for which they had to sell, and by selling them they received a: . considerable fund; and that .money has been used in paying the obligations to contractors, and perhaps it may be interest on bonds.

Mr. PHELAN. Yes; I will say in addition that the War Department and other departments nave received some merchandis~ intended for Rt:tss~a. It has been turned over and used by; us m the war, and mCidentally to help us win the war. I wiU say fw·ther that these very representatives, Mr. Bakhmeteff and others, hav.e -rented vessels to -our Emergency Fleet or the Ship~ ping .Board., I .do not knew which, which have been used and the rent has been paid, and that rent ~as gone into that fu~d .

Mr. LONGWORTH. wm the gentlemn.n yield? I

Mr. PHELAN. Yes. MJ.·. LONGWORTH. The interest on our loan to Russia is

being paid regularly? Mr. PHELAN. Yes; the last payment was due the 15th of

Noyerriber, 1918. Most of that has been paid, and our Government c.ould have collected every -cent if it had so desired, because there is plenty at hand which they can get if they desire to get it, but our Government did not feel like crowding -them as long as they had plenty of merchandise here when that merchandise may be, and probably is aow, available, for ttlle people of Russia need it badly.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Is that being paid out of nny fund of the United States Treasury?

1\lr. PHELAN. No, indeed. Mr. LONGWORTH. That is the only question. The SPEAKER. The time of th~ gent1~man .from .Massa

chusetts has again expired. Mx. PHELAN. Mr. Speaker, I .ask f-<>x five minutes more. The SPElAKER. The gentleman from Massachusetts asks

th-at his time be extended five minutes. Is there objection 1 There was no objection. Mr . .SLOAN~ Will the gentleman yield? Mr. PHELAN. Yes. Mr. SWAN. There was an ll.nthorization for a loan ()f ~00.-

000,()00· and 'Out of that $187.,000,000 wa actually loaned. The Secretary of the Treasury ex.e:rcised his supervisory control over the d1sposttion of this money even t'O saying that lit would be :used for w.ar-winning purposes.

· Mr. PHELAN. What authority !has the gentleman for that sta temen.t?

Mr. SLOAN. Nothing exeept the statement of thB Secretary of the Treasury of the United States. {Laughter.] ·

1\Ir. PHELAN. That is pretty nearly the best authmity .a man can get. I had understood it differently. I understood in many cases the money had -been loaned to the eo:belligerents with the understanding that the money was going to be used in some way in connection with the war, but that ther~ were no strings tied to it, no inspector appoi nted to see that they carried out that purpose. It was handed over for the general purpose {)f winning the war.

Mr. SLOAN. The large I>Urpose w-as to pay for munit ions, mate1ials, food, and so forth. ·

I do not find that there is any particular controversy here except the one question whether ·out -of that money wbich is under the control · of Bakhmeteff that was loaned to bis government and under control, whether out '()f that there had recently been paid the interest upon the loans that were made to Russia by citizens of the United States before w-e entered the war. I . am not putting any adverse construction on that fact, but I think the House would like to know whether or not that money which has been in the hands of Baklnneteff', who was the custodian of money loaned by the United States, bad been used for · these private bo-nds and not the obligations of the United States.

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2641 Mr. PHELAN. The gentleman wants to know whether or not

money which has been advanced by this Government to Russia has been used in any part to pay the interest upon bonds prevl-pusly put out by Russia. .

Mr. SLOAN. Yes; referred to by the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MAsoN]. .

1\fr. P.HELAN. It is almost impossible for anyone to say what money is used for a particular purpose when there is a fund made up of money derived from very ma.Dy different sources, so I do not think anybody ean say that money that we loaned to Russia has actually been paid out to pay the interest on some other bonds; but it is a fact-and I think this will answer the gentleman's question-that out of a fund among which are moneys advanced by this Government there has been money paid to holders of bonds previously put out by the Russion Government. Does that answer the gentleman's question?

Mr. SLOAN. Yes. l\Jr. PHELAN. I want to say just one other thing in regard

to the point raised by the gentleman from Ohlo [Mr. LoNGWORTH], and that is tws, that you must keep in mind in connection with the payment of the bonds referred to, which were put out by the Russian Government before we extended credit to them, that those men had a valid claim, and that they easily by a law process could have tied up large amounts of merchandise owned by that provisional government or to which it hall title, and we might have been worse off, if that had been done, looking simply at the Government's point of view and nothing else, than if the interest had not been paid on these bonds. In the second place, if we are going to be paid back this money by Russia-! do not know what the situation is going to be in the fu ture-! presume the bonds put out to private bondholders while Russia was a government and before we extended any credit to her are going to be paid. So that it does not make any pa rticular difference how this thing is handled in that respect; but the fact is-and this is the salient point of the whole thing--::that since November, 1917, our Government has advanced nothing· to Russia nor to anyone representing Russia.

1\ir. KNUTSON. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? l\1r. PHELAN. Yes. l\lr. KNUTSON. ~s the gentleman in a position to inform .

this House who the principal Russian bondholders are in this country?

:!\ [r. PHELAN. No, I am not; and I am not interested to kuow.

l\lr. SAUNDERS of Virginia. l\fr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?

~1r. PHELAN. Yes. 1.\fr. SA~-nERS of Virginia. I just want to see jf I ha-ve

gotten the situation entirely clear in my mind. As I understand from the gentleman's 8tatement, out of the $187,000,000 advanced to Russia as represented by Bakhmeteff, there were certain residuary balances remaining after the payment the gentleman .mentioned, and then that the Russian Government, as represented by Bakhmeteff, had other funds in its hands, obtained from other sources.

l\Jr. PHELAN. Yes. . _ Mr. SAUNDERS of Virginia. ~t\nd out of tws aggregate, part

itself of the residuum of balances of the $187,000,000, the Russian Government, represented by Bakhmeteff, has paid interest upon the money owed by that Government to the United States, and on money owed by that Government to certain private individuals in ·the United States.

Mr. PHELAN. Out of the general fund held by them. Mr. HUDDLESTON. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? Mr. PHELAN. Yes. Mr. HUDDLESTO.N. There is a very e~'i:ensive anti-Bolshe

vik! propaganda being carried on in this country by a purported. Russian committee. It is charged that this comntittee is being financed by the former Kerensky agent, Bakhmeteff, and his associates. Is the gentleman in a position to advise us whether this propaganda is being carried on with money that the United ·States Government loaned to the Kerensky government?

1\Ir. PHELAN. No; I can not answer that question, and I really think that is outside of the present purpose here.

Mr. HUDDLESTON. Does the gentleman know \Thether this propaganda is being financed by Bakhmeteff anu llis associates?

Mr. PHELAN. I am not in a position to say that there is such a propaganda.

lr. HUDDLESTON. Does it not come to the gentleman's table, does he not see it? .

l\ir. PHELAN. I do not care to go into a uiscu&:;ion of that kind of thing, because I thin~ it: has nothing to do with this question. It is a question as to whether or not our Government is acting right through its admini !:"= trutive branci ws.

I have stated here that the Treasury Department had acted absolutely right in this whole matter, and the inferences which might be drawn and I think ha-ve been drawn, which I think were reasonable to draw, have been incorrect, due to an incorrect statement.

Mr. HUDDLESTON. Does not the gentleman think that the American people would like to know whether the propaganda' among them is being carried on at their own expense?

Mr. PHELAN. I do not care to go into that. I think that is entirely outside of the question.

The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman has again ex-pired. ·

Mr. MASON. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to proceed for five minutes out of order.

Mr. CHARLES B. SMITH. Mr. Speaker, reserving the right" to object, thls is unanimous-consent day, and I would like to· know how long discussion is going to proceed. We have not done very much on the Unanimous Consent Calendar thus far to-day.

Mr. STAFFORD. The time has been largely taken np by suspension of the rules.

The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request of the gentleman from illinoig. that he proceed for five minutes? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none.

Mr. MASON. 1\Ir. Speaker, there seems to be some misunderstanding. I asked this question some days ago. I stated that I had no proof; that I was asking for information. I stated that same thing again this morning and have asked for that information. Now, the gentleman rises and gives what informa-' tion he has, and I am very much obliged to him, but he does not know and no Member of Congress knows. One gentleman upon this side of the Chamber, who is a member of the committee, said that the Secretary of the Treasury told Wm that the money held by this man with the unpronounceable name, Bakhmeteff, that that gentleman holds thls money, but that the Secretary of the Treasury holds a supervision over it, and that is what this article charges, that this money, 6}- per cent, was paid upon bonds which were selling at 48 cents and that some bankers in New York did know it and some of them did not know it. No one has answered that question.

Mr. WINGO. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. MASON. I will be glad to do so. Mr. WINGO. Does the gentleman charge on information

that the recent payment on those bonds was made out of the United States Treasury?

Mr. MASON. I have not made any statl:!lnent of that kind. I remarked that this paper-it is confirmed-stated that it was made out of money in the hands of this man who held United States money and that it was made with the consent of the Treasury Department. If the gentleman >Yas on the floor this mornlng--

Mr. WINGO. l was on the floor and heard the gentleman. Will the gentleman yield again?

Mr. MASON. Yes; of course. If the gentleman can answer my question, I will answer his if I can.

Mr. \VINGO~ The gentleman read the article and I will read a short paragraph from it. .

It is understood that there is still a balance in the United States Treasury of about $130,000,000 granted to Russia n.nd never used after the fall of the Kerensky government. The pnyment of coupons on Russia's obligations in this country, it is said, comes from this fund.·. and it is understood that the sanction of the Treasury has to be obtaim.'tl for each payment.

Does the gentleman say that that statement is true? 'Mr. MASON. No; I do not know anything about it. I am

exactly in the position the gentleman is on the other branch of the case. I do not know and you--

Mr. WINGO. I do .know. Mr. l\IASON. The gentleman does not know whether the

money which was paid by this individual on the 17th of January comes out of the fund; the gentleman does not know, and if he does why does not he say so?

Mr. ·wiNGO. Whenever I get a chance I am going to U.o so. :Mr. MASON. The gentleman can have the chance out of my

time. According to the paper and ·according to the statement made by the gentleman from Nebraska the Government of the United States holds a ~upervision o-ver the money of the United States in tpe hands of this Russian agent . . Now, I do not charge anything; I am only stating what is charged by this newspaper.

l\Ir. PHELAN. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. 1\!ASON. Certainly. Mr. PHELAN. Does · the gentleman think this GoYernrnent

should hnye attempted to interfere to prevent Bakhmeteff or his associate-:;; f rom paying the intereEt of the bouds to which he t·eferreu in hi.-; t>11eetl1 this afteruoon? ·

•

2642 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. I

· Mr. MASON. Yes; if they are paying them out of our money that he got out of the sale of the notes which we sold him. I say it was an immoral and unconscionable act, and he ought to have returned the n::;:oney, when his Government failed, back into the United States Treasury. When he paid it out he did have the leading strings of the Treasury loosened with him. . 1\ir. WINGO. Mr. Speaker--

The SPEAKER. For what purpose does the gentleman rise? Mr: WINGO. I ask unanimous consent to proceed for five

minutes. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Arkansas asks unani

mous consent to proceed for five minutes. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none.

Mr. WINGO. In the article the gentleman from illinois [Mr. MAsoN] read, anu which by readi,ng he gave credence to, because he said he -did not make inquiry at the Treasury as to whether or not it was correct, contains these two statements:

It is understood that there is still a balance in the United States Treasury of about $130,000,000 granted to Russia and never used after the fall of the Kerensky government. The payment of coupons on Russia's obligations in this country, it is said, comes from this fund, and it is undestood that the sanction of the Treasury bas to be obtained for each payment. • • • Bankers who have been following this situation closely predict that inasmuch as the United States Government has seen fit to pay interest out of the balance of the Russian funds it still has on hand, it will not decline to pay the principal on the bonds when due, out of the same fund.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Will the gentleman yield? Is not that a direct charge that this money belongs to the United States?

l\Ir. WINGO. Mr. Speaker, the man who wrote that article intended to charge-and if the gentleman from illinois did not intend to give that charge circulation and credence on this floor I can not understand his object-that as late as January, 1919, the Treasury of the United States advanced the money to pay the interest then due on Russian bonds sold in this country before we entered the war and now held by individuals and corporations. That charge is false, and' the gentleman from Illinois, if he had taken the pains to phone the Treasury Department, could have known it was false, because not one single c.lollar has been paid to Bakhmeteff or any other representative of the Ru sian Government since November 15, 1917. · · Now, the article is misleading in that it suggests-and the

gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MAsoN] is either misled or he is misleading when he sugges~-that the United States Tteasury has supervision over a certain balance that Bakhmeteff has in the United States T1·easury. He has no balance. The truth about that $137,000,000 is this: Proceeding under the act of April, 1917, the Pretiident made an order authorizing the Secretary of the Treasury to grant credits to Russia to the extent of $325,000,000. What did that mean? It meant that the Secretary of the Treasury could grant credits to Russia without consulting the President up to $325,000,000. Now, acting upon that authority, prior to November 16, 1917, the Secretary of the Treasury did advance to the Russian Gbvernment $187,-000,000 for the purpose of purchasing in this country war supplies for the Russian Army, at that time fighting Germany. That left what? It left $137,000,000 in the Treasury for Bakhmeteff? No. It left a balance authorization from the President to the Secretary of the Treasury, but Bakhmeteff has no claim upon that fund, and that fund was not drawn upon by him last month to pay the interest on the Russian bonds as charged.

Mr. ELSTON. Not only that, but were not bonds of the Russion Government delivered to us for the loans or credits we advanced to it?

Mr. WINGO. Yes; we received Russian bonds for $187,-000,000, as the act of Congress required. · There are some other facts. At the tiiLe the Kerensky gov

ernment failed, in 1917, Bakhmeteff and the Russian representatives had other funds besides this $187,000,000, which, as n matter of fact, I believe had already been paid out here to those furnishing supplies to the Russian Army. I will not .make the assertion upon the authority of the Secretary of the Treasury, but I will make it upon the authority of the common report that was current at the time, that these advances, amounting to $187,000,000, were not made to Bakhmeteff to be kept by him and put tn the bank but were advanced for war supplies being furnished to the Russian Government; but when the Kerensky government failed Bakhmeteff did have funds on hand. Made up of what? From loans made to the Government by Great Britain, by way of CI'edits in New , York. He also had balances on hand, possibly from the proceeds of other bond issues that had been sold in the United States. Now, what happened? When the Kerensky government failed the Secretary of the Treasury refused to advance any more money to Russia. In addition to that, the Secretary of the Treasury said to Mr. Bakhmeteff and the Russian repr~sentatives, II You . have gorie tQ the people of this country, to the manufacturers, and you

have obtained war supplies, and contracted for the manufacture of war supplies--did that upon the credit they knew you had in the Treasury of the United States: Now, you pay for'

· this material."_ Bakhmeteff paid for that material or the balances due thereon. He took that material over. Some of it subsequently he turned over to the War Department of the United States, and it was used by us. Other of that material he sold--

MirMA.NN. Paid for by US. Mr. WINGO. Paid for by us? These materials may have

been partly paid for out of the credits we extended in 1917 or they may have been paid for out of other funds of the Russian Government held in this country and procured from loans made' to it by Great Britain or out of funds derived from sale of Russian bonds to individuals in this country. But from whatever source the funds were obtained with which to pay for· these supplies, they belonged to Russia, and Russia's representative, who had paid for them and had them in his posses ion, had a right to sell them, which he did. Now, the fact that he used the proceeds of the sale of these supplies in the payment of interest on Russian bonds held in this country is not a fact upon· which you can base the charge that the Secretary of the Treas~ ury made such payment.

The fact that can not be conb.·overted is that not one dollar has been paid out of the Treasury on Russian account since November 15, 1917, and that fact could have been ascertained by the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MAsoN] had he made inquiry at the Treasury instead of repeating upon this floor the baseless charge contained in the article he read and in support of which he admits he has no proof. The charge made in that article is false, and viciously so. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Arkan as has expired. · lli. MANN. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to pro

ceed for five minutes. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Illinois asks unanimous

consent to proceed for five minutes. Is there objection? There was no objection. . Mr. MANN. Mr. Speaker, I do not know whether it makes

. any difference whether the interest on the .bonds of Russia was paid out of the United States Treasm·y or some other fund.' It may have been a 'perfectly proper transaction. But what are the facts? The Secretary of the Treasury advanced $187,-000,000 to the agent of the Russian Government here, with some strings tied to it. It was understood ana agreed that that money should be expended, at least in .the main, in the United States in the payment of bills for war supplies.

Mr. HULL of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield?

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Illinois yieltl to the gentleman from Tennessee?

Mr. l\1A.NN. I do not yield unless I get more time. The SPEAKER. The gentleman declines to yield. Mr. HULL of Tennessee. I want to call the attention of the

gentleman to the fact that--The SPEAKER. The gentleman declines to yield. Mr. MANN. Well, I will yield to the gentleman. 1\fr. HULL of Tennessee. The gentleman from Nebraska is

usually accurate, but I think the Secretary of the Treasury will not show that he undertook to tie strings to the loan.

Mr. l\1.A.NN. I did not make my statement on the strength o:t what the gentleman from Nebraska said. If the Secretary of the Treasury was not a plumb d--d fool he did not advance millions of money to the agents of these foreign governments without taking any secmity and witho~t knowing anything about what was to be done with the money. [Applause.] The gentleman can take either horn of the dilemma he wishes to. If the Secretary of the Treasury had any sense and any desire to protect the United States, he would either have taken Government securities for the money advanced or would have provided-and probably would have provided anyhow-that the money should be used for the purchase of or payment · for war materials.

However, that is not so material to what I want to get at. The money was advanced. The Kerensky government in Russia fell; the originaJ Czar's government fell. When the Kerensky government fell it is said_:_! do not know with how much truth-it is said that the Kerensky agent here, Bakh-meteff or somebody else, still had in his posse sion a large amount of the money that had been advanced by the United States. The United States had not received Russian bonds in accordance \vith the law providing for Rus ian advances, but the Secretary of the Treasury, it is stated, had taken demand notes, notes due on demand, for the money that was advanced, of the agents here of the Russian Government which ·.

. CONGRESSIONAL RECOR.D-HOUSE. 2643 had fallen ; and, knowing that the Russian Government had fallen, so far as the agents here are concerned, n.nd it is said knowing that the agents still · possessed the money advanced by the United States, instead of demanding the return of that money on these demand notes, he authorized the payment of it as interest on the bonds.

Now, I do not know whether that is so or not, but I fail to illscover any difference in principle between that and the payment of the money out of the Treasury of the United States.

Mr. MASON. That is the point exactly. Mr. M~. It was money which belonged to us, for which

we had not yet received any proper security. It would have been paid to us on demnnd. li we did not demand it and authorized its payment as interest, I do not say thct is an improper transaction, but it is the same thing as though we llatl paid it out of the balance of $325,000,000.

1\Ir. PLA'l'T. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? Mr. MANN. Yes. 1\Ir. PLATT. I may say to the gentleman that very little

money was passed. It was simply credits, and they still owed a lot of it to our manufacturers.

Mr. 1\.IANN. That does not matter. My colleague did not say that the money was paid out of the Treasury,. The gen- . ~Ieman from Ohio [1\tir. LoNGWORTH] tried to make him say it.

Mr. LONGWORTH. Wbat does the gentleman mean by that statement?

Mr. MANN. I mean that is the fact. 1\Ir. LONGWORTH. " The gentleman from Ohio" did not

make anl'' such statementL The gentleman only asked a ques-tion of the gentleman. .

Mr. MANN. I am not criticizing the gentleman from Ohio. The gentleman from Ohio tded to make my colleague [Mr. Masol"-] say that this article stated it was. paid out of the Treasw·y of the United States. Maybe that is what the article stated. I did not listen to the article, but my colleague said he did not so understand it.

Mr. LONGWORTH. The article as quoted by the gentleman, as I sal~ made that plain inference, and I asked him if it did n~ •

Mr. MANN. That is what the gentleman said, and my colleague said he did not so understand it.

1\fr. LONGWORTH. I did not try to make him say it. Mr. MANN. The gentleman repeated his question several

times. Mr. LONGWORTH. The gentleman from Illinois has no

right to say that I attempted to make his colleague say something he did not want to say.

Mr. MANN. I have not said that you did.

lmiTED STATES DISTRICT ATTORNEY FOR P.IIODE ISLA.ND.

1\Ir. O'SHAUNESSY. Will the Speaker recognize me to make a motion to suspend the rules?

'.rhe SPEAKER. If the gentleman will make his motion, the 'Cltn ir will recognize him.

1\fr. O'SHAUNESSY. I move to discharge the J"udiciary Committee from further consideration of the bill (S. 2116} to increase the salary of the United States district attorney for the district of Rhode Island, to suspend the rules, and pass the bill.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Rhode Island moves to illscharge the Judiciary Committee from the further consideration of S. 2116, suspend the rules, and pass the bill. ·. Mr. WALSH. Mr. Speaker, a parliamentary inquiry.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. Mr. WALSH. Does the gentleman want to pass the bill as

amended or as originally introduced? The SPEAKER. The Chair has no information about that. l\11·. WALSH. Well, the House ought to know what it will be

~ul1eu upon to vote upon. · : The SPEAKER. It will when the bill is read.

1\Ir. WALSH. The Chair stated _the motion of the gentleman

I from Rhode Island? The SPEAKER. Of course the Chair stated the motion.

~lWlmt else could the Chair do. Mr. WALSH. I am propounding a parliamentary inquiry-The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. 1\Ir. WALSH. As to whether that motion comprehends pass

lug the bill as originally drafted or us reported by the committee ~ith an amendment?

The SPEAKER. It will be whatever the Clerk reaus. Tl1e TUlo when a motion is made to suspend the rules is that whatever ~s_ read from the Clerk's de k is the matter to be voted upon. rNow, if any gentleman has an amendment to this bill, it will be 'renrt as a vart of the bill to . tart on.

11·. "'·ALsH. Thnt is an answer to the inquiry that I propounded.

1

The SPEAKER. Nobody is offering any amendment '\lhich the Chair has heard of.

Mr. CRISP. Mr. Speake!', a parliamentru-y inquiry. Tile SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. Mr. CRISP. An amendment is not in order and can not be

offered on a motion to suspend the rules? The SPEAKER. You can read an amendment into the bill

when it is first read. Mr. CRISP. Of course you can; but the Ohair said "If anY.

gentleman has an amendment to the bill "--The SPEAKER. Nobody has sent up any amendment to be

read. The Clerk will read the bill. The bill was read, as follows: Be it enacted, etc., That from and a.fter the na.ssage of- this act. the

salary of the United States district attorney for the district CJt. Rhoda Island shall be at the rate of $3,500 a. year.

The SPEAKER. Is a second demanded? Mr. WALSH. I demand a second. Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. I ask unanimous consent that a second

be considered as ordered. . The SPEAKER. The gentleman asks unanimous consent that

a second be considered as ordered. Is- there objection? Ther~ was no objection. , The SPEAKIDR. The gentleman from Rhode Island [MJ.~.

O'SHAUNESSY] has 20 minutes and the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. WALsH] has 20 minutes.

Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. Mr. Speakei' and gentlemen of the House, in the Sixty-fourth Congress this bill as introduced called for the raising of the sala-ry of the district attorney ot Rhode Island to $5,000 a year. The Attorney General's office,

, I believe, at that time recommended $3,000, and the United: States judge for the district of Rhode Island recommended $4,000. The committee brought in a recommendation for $3,500. That bill passed this House, raising the salary of the district at· torney of Rhode Island from $2,500 to $3,500 a year. It went over to the Senate, and there it failed to :Qass because of a filibustei·, conducted, I believe, by the Senator· from Wisconsin. The same measure is now before us again. I have tried ineffectually se-veral times to secure its passage.

I do not wish to take up the time of the House in justifying an increase of the salary of the district attorney for Rhode Island from $2,500 to $3,500 a year. I merely say in justifica-tion that a couple of weeks ago a bill was passed ir. this House to increase tha salary of the district attorney for the district of Connecticut to $4,500. a year, although he now gets the same saln.ry as the district attorney for the district of Rhode Island; $2,500 a year.

Mr. GORDON. What is the reason for this special legislation to raise the salal'y of a district attorney?

Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. The negleet ot the United States in taking cognizance of its underpaid officials;

Mr. GORDON. · But is there anything peculiar with reference to your constituent which makes his case one that ought to be taken out of the general rule?

Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. Everybody in Rhode Island feels that this man is worth more than the common laborer, and the carpenter gets $70 a week in my State.

Mr. GORDON. Was this man drafted? Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. No ; he is over age. Mr. GORDON. Ob, I mean was he drafted into this posi

tion? [Laughter.} Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. Yes; he was drafted by the Democratic

Party, and he has done very good service. Mr. Speaker, I re-serve the balance of my time. .

Mr. 'V ALSH. Mt·. Speaker, I doubt the-propriety of picking out one district attorney at this particular time and providing for an increase of his salary under a suspension of the rules. I know the gentleman from Rhode Island has been most earnest and persistent in his efforts to secure favorabre consideration of this measure. · I doubt not that the gentleman to be benefited is a most worthy official, but we are approaching the close ot the-last days of the session of what ""rill be-known as the war Congress, and I do not believe that the Ame1ican people will want to see us take up the closing hours in suspending the rules to pass legislation increasing salaries of Government officials. r tllink we have sufficient to <lo to pass the regular appropriation bills, and in addition to that to enact legislation to take careof the soldier boys that are coming back from the other sido and seeing that they do not b€come destitute or in '\\ant, uml that we provide some plan for this purpo.·e to put into cxecutiou. [Applause.]

This bill seeks to pick out a disu~ict attorney of the State of Rhode Island nnd rai~e his . nlary frl)ln $2.500 to $3,GOO. The gentleman from· Rhode Islnncl says that there are sutlic:lent reasons why this should be <lone, because some few ,...-eeks ago

2644 . CONGRESSIOR~'\L RECORD-ROUSE. FEBRUARY- 3,

the district attorney of the neighboring State of Connc<'ticnt Mr. PRELA..'T. Aml from other ·ources. I meant to give the was uccessful, through some means or other, \Vithout the necc.::- gentleman the information. sity of suspending the rules, in getting an increase from .~2,50u Mr. SLOAN. I have no doubt that the Treasury of the United to $4,000. These salaries may be iuadequate, but if they are , 'tates can enlighten the people upon the substantial fact of there are thousand of others throughout tlle country that are whether or not ·it was largely ma<le up of that money Ioane<l.· by inadequate. They have raised. the salaries of judges, and now ou r Go\·ernment to the Kcrens1..J7 government. we must go down the ladder a step and raise the . a laries of the ' Mr. GORDON. ·noes the gentleman !mow of auy better use tlistrict attorneys. Next we must go <lown and. take 'nited that a nation or an indiYidual can put his money to than to States marshals, :mel I bel-ieve there is a measure pendiug fo1· pay the interest upon his debts when they are due? • the clerks of col1rts, the bailiffs, and other officials. 1\Ir. SLOAN·. This interest payment was on a loan not made

·My objection to this bill is based on the fact that this is no by the Go>ernment of the United States to Russia. time to engage in the iucrease of salaries. We have a revenu~ Mr. GORDON. No matter who makes it. bill coming in now in a few days that I hope will provide sutfi- Mr. SLOAN. Discussion of that feature was not the purpose cient revenue to run the Government. If we do not get it in here for which I took the floor. pretty soon, if we are going to suspend. the rules and pa ·s bills Mr. GORDON. Then how is it important? · increasing salaries, by the time the revenue bill gets in nnu put Mr. SLOAN. It is important because the accm·acy of my on its final passage it will be so· many laps behind that required statement \Vas quesUoned on the floor of this House. · by the Government to pay the increase of salaries that we will 1\Ir. GORDON. Oh, I did not understand tiiat. think-we have not passed any re>enue bill at all. Mr. Speaker, The SPEAKER. The time of the ·gentleman from Nebraska I yiel<l. five minutes to the gentleman from Nebraska [Mr. SLo.A.~]. has exp~red .

Mr. SLOAN. Mr. Speaker, a few moments ago I submittcll · l\fr. MOORE of Penns,rlYania. 1\Ir. Speaker, I make the point a question to the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. PHELA ~. ·] of order that there is no quorum present. . 1n reference to the bond and. interest payhig controversy ha<l . The SPE:AKER. Th0 .,.entlemnn from Pennsylvania makes on the floor this afternoon. I quoted an authority which he the point .of order that there is no quorum present. The Chait challenged, and the question was afterwards raised by tl1e gen- ''ill count. tleman from Tennessee as to the accuracy of my statement. l\fr. KI'l'CHIN. Mr. Speaker, I hope the gentleman will The gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MAsoN] in his hurried state· re. ene that for a moment. ment seemed to have understood that I had talked with the ·Mr. MOORE of Pennsylvania. I unuerstand that a number ~ecretary of the Treasury about the Russian loan. I feare(l of other bills are to be calle<l up to-night, with the expectation that I might be misunderstoou. What I did refer to was the of a ·night session. Many of us have important engagements statement of the Secretary of the Treasury in answer to the early in the morning, and if we are going to have a long ses ion·

-questions put to him from both sides of the Ways and. Means to-night, let us test the question right now. Committee table as to how he would dispose of the money that Mr. KITCHIN. I ,~vill a k the gentlcmnn to reserve that for would be loaned to the Yarious countries and how the credits a moment. ~ should be _<lisposed of which were to be loaneu to these Euro- Mr. MOORE of Peru1syl>an_ia. I re ·erve the point of order pean countries. I should not regard myself a fit member of th:tt for a moment. committee if I utd n•ot- insist on knowing how that money was Mr. KITCHIN.· ·Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that. to be disposed. of, because we did not want the go](l or other when the House adjourns to-day it adjourn to meet at 11 o'clock forms of money taken out of the country. 'Vhy, the amount to-morrow morning. .. now loaneu is more than 50 per cent more than the sum total of ~'he SPEAKER. Is there objection? all the money in the Pnited States at this time. 'Ve wanted. it l\Ir. l\fOORE of PennsylYaniu. ~Ir. Speaker, I am obligetl to to insure payment of American bills and to be used in wilming object to that. · · · the war. And so questions propounded from every siue of The SPEAKER. The gentleman from PennsylYania objects, the table demande<l. to know what safeguards woulil be plac~<l and the gentleman from Pennsyl>ania makes the point of oruer about this money after it was loaned to tJ;lese governments that that there is no quorum pre ent. 'l'he Chair wiii count. ' our war-winning purposes would be serveu. Then it was that 1\Ir. MOORE of Penn. yl>ania. l\!r. Speaker, in view of the the Secretary of the Treasury assured the committee that he statements which have been maue to me by gentlemen on the' 'vould exercise such supervisory control of that money as he other siue; I withdraw the point of no quorum for the present. could, so that it woulU be used practically all in America to The SPE.:tKEll. The gentl<.'man withuraws the point of })ay for munitions, foou, and on other American bills. If neces- or<ler. sary, some gold should be al!owed to go to Europe, anu some l\!r. KITCHIN .. 1\fr. Speaker, I as!' unanimous consent again <lid go to Europe, we were then informed. I want to say right that '"·hen we adJourn to-clay we adJOurn to meet at 11 o'clock here that if we had not had that assurance, I would not have to-morrow. voted for these loans to those coul)tries. I take it that the ~fr. MOOUE of Pennsyh-ania. 1\Ir. Speaker, reserving the Secretary of the Treasury was living up to his high unties right to object, I would like to know how long the gentleman and responsibilities when he assumed control, so far as he intends to continue to-night. coulu, o>er the expenuiture of this money so loaned. I have no ~he SPEAK~n. As far as the Chair is concerned., he is not doubt that, living up to his high <luty and responsibility as he gomg to recogmze anybody else unuer suspension of the rule.-:. saw them, he could not fail to do with respe<:!t to the Russian loan, l\Ir. KITCHIN. It will not take a long time, and we--when the ~ollapse of that Government came, what he diU witll ~11,·. W ~SH. Mr_. Spea~er, re_serving the right to object, an the other loans to the governments understood to be solvent. how much time remams to either std.e? -

I make this statement simply to have the RECORD straight. The SPEAKER. Se>enteen mil_1ute remains to the gentle-! do not state it with a purpose of criticizing the use of thjs man from Rhoue Island. and. .11 mmutes to the gentleman from money fqr the payment of the interest upon the lonns made by Massachusetts. ~ . . this Government to Russia, nor the interest upon the other loans SEVER.AT~ l\1EMBERS. \Van-e. the tim:. that Russia floated through private channels before we entered 1\Ir. \VALSH. 'Ve can wai\e the time :mel adjourn now, but the ,Yar, because it may have been the best .~ind of judgment I wish to consu~e so~e more t~e upon this _measure. I trust to do so, and I do not assume to criticize it fayorably or unfavor-· the gentleman w1ll Withdraw his reque. t until we lay this bill nbly. I shall draw no concJusion till I know the important away. [Laughter.] . fact which I sought to elicit and others properly related thereto.· :Mr. KITCHIN. Mr. Speaker, nnder t11e Yetled threat of the I endeavored by my question submitted to the gentleman from g~ntleman . from Massachusetts, I reckon I had just as wellMassachusetts [Mr. PHELAN] to: get at the real question. T~at Withdraw It. was the question whether the money that had been furnished Mr. 'V ALSH. I assure the gentleman I - did not 1ntcml to to the Kerensky government; through Bekhmeteff, was used in conwy any th1·eat. the payment of interest on these pri>ate prewar Russian loans: l\fr. KITCHIN. · If I uo not withuraw, will the gentleman After that fact is established, it will be up for criticism, fa>or- from Massachusetts object? · ' · able or unfavorable. 1\Ir. \V ALSH. No; I will not object.

Mr. PHELAN. I endea-vored to answer that question, but The SPEAKER. Is tllnre objection to the request of the gen-perhaps the gentleman diu not nnuerstanu me. I :mid tlle in- tlemnn ·from North Carolina tl'lat when the House-adjourns toterest had. been ·paid out of a fund, and that fund was made· up day it adjourn. to ·meet at 11 o'clock to-morrow? [After a · probably of some balances; it was niade u11 of other ·credits ob-' pause.J Tbe Cbair hear.· non~. ·The gentleman from l\Iassa-tained elsewhere; it was made up of funds ·obtaille<l from 11ri- chusetts is recognized for 11 minutes. · Yat ·ources; .it was -made up; in 1J.:u-t· r m·reut . "',f · vesse:s~ , lr. · lYAl .. SH.:.. •1\lr.: ~P nk r. I <wonld Jik to a k ·the ~entle-~

· ~ 1\[r.--SLOA.l~. Oh; I• UilUel"-tcod- the ·-g~t~ ll'hUI· ' . ;:llSA.YCl'. • Dl:iJT frtnn -:IUtotlc hihmtl ;if ·he ·will -· tcll Jll", if ·this 'inti'ea e of

i .

1919. CONGRESSIONAL·. RECORD-HOUSE. 2645 salary be nccor<l d, if the incumbent of this office intends to de,ote his entire time to the duties of the office?

1\Ir. O'SHAUNESSY. He i.lel'otes his entire time now. 1\fr. WALSH. The report dQes not say so. The report says,

or the report evidently complained, or,. rather, states in a complaining .lllanner, that the district attot·ney is compelled to devote practically his entire time to the duties of his office, and because be is compelled to do that he must necessarily haYe an increase of salary to $3,000. Now, I would like to ask the gentleman from RhO<le Island, if this increase be granted, if he .will then dispense with giving some of the Government's time to Ws private busine.<:;,s and the Government. can secure his entire time? · 1\fr. O'SHAUNESSY. I do not think he gives any of his · time to any clients ; and ·I think I could ask the gentleman from Ma achusetts if he knows anybody who performs work of that eharactel." in .Massachusetts .who gets these begg-arly wages?

Mr. WALSH. Well, I will say to the gentleman. while the report is very meager in its information as to the character of the work done, I think we have gentlemen in Massachusetts who are performing similar duties to those performed by this -distinguished official, whom the .· report says is compelled to devote practically his entire time to the duties of his office, who are getting substantiill.ly the same sal.ary-pructicaliy the Silllle salary-which is not adequate for a lawyer occupying such an important 'Position. Of com.· e, this district attorney is to be congratulated upon the fact that Jle secured from the judge , before whom he practices a. most. complimentary letter, in.. which the judge of the Federal court asks the Assistant Attorney General in Washington to reco~end that the United States Congress increase the salary of the qistrict attorm~y.

Mr. GOR1)9N. And ,also the judges. Mr . . WALSH. And I .assume the same judge \vas one of

those who dir~ctly or indirectly was asking for an increase of his own salary from $6,000 to $9,000, or in that vicinity. Now, Mr. _8peaker, it is but natural for a district Federal judge who is in a po~tion to recogniz-e the attainments and tlle ability of the district attorney who pra.etices before him to be interestell in the salary that he receives, IDld to be sufficiently solicitous of the ability .and attalnm~ts- of the distriet attorney to ;write to the Department of Justice and intercede with the As-sistant Attorney General for him. , ·

But I repeat that I .doubt Yery. much if this is the time in this stag-e of this Congress, .by a suspension of the rules, to be passing bills to increase: salaries of Federal officials of this character, .and particularly · when we specialize as to the number and pick--out an official in the great little State of Rhode Island and simply pass a measure to .apply to that State alone. ·why not consider a bill increasing the salaries of .all these officials ()f ability and attainment, the same as we did with respect to the Federal judges? We increased their salaries the other day to a moderate extent, not as much as they would like to have bad.

1\Ir. STEVENSON. Will the gentleman be prepared to support a bill of that kind if brought in?

Mr. WALSH. I certainly am not prepared to support .such n bill. .

Mr. COLLIER. Were yon in favor of the juuges' bill thn.t . wa passed sometime ago?

1\.fr. WALSH. I was not. .And if the gentleman will per, mit a personal reference, I think I was the OI).lY member of the ' committee reporting the bill who opposed it. ' Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. Will the gentleman yield"? :1 Mr. WALSH. Certainly. ~· Mr. O'SHAUNESSY. I think I might recommend it as a ""'Very good idea to my friend from Massachusetts [Mr. W .ALSH] !to consult--

Mr. WALSH. I have no doubt the gentleman is capable. 1\Ir. O'SHAUNESSY (continuing). To consult the ex-dlstrlct

llttorney of Rhode Island, wbo sits near him, Mr. ST~ESs. ~,re knows all abont it.

Ml'. WALSH. I talked with the distinguished gentleman from nRholle Island [Mr. STINESS] some little time ago~ when ·he at'"itempted to secure unanimous consent for consideration of tills ·measure by the House. And I recall the a.rgmnent made by the ' ,gentleman n·om Rhode Island [l\Ir. STINESS] at that time as to • the character of ervices nnd as to the distinction of the gent1e~man who is occupying the position. But if the gentleman from Rho<le Island [Mr. O'SHA.l.-~Essr] thinks that .because the gen-tleman from Rhode Islaml fl\1r. STL.~ s] is in favo1· of this measure, or was in favor of tlle rueasure at that time, or be~'l.use of the argument that he presented then, that it changes niy judgment, the gentleman from Rhode I land [Mr. O'SHAU~Es. Yl, who now seeks in the closing hours of the Sixty-fitth Cong-l'e-ss,

. by the..proceuure kno~ as suspension of·the rules,- to-pick out-his

particular State, and through that method incrEase t.Q.e salary of that .distinguished official there, is mistaken. And so, Mr. Speaker, I submit to the House that as fur as the report of the committee is concerned, as supplemented by the arguments of the gentleman from llllode Island [1\Ir. O'SHAUNESSY], who makes the motion, further supplemented by the statement of the gentleman from Uhode Island [Mr. STINEss], I submit further and again, and once more reiterate, that this is not the proper time to be passing bills to increase salaries of Federal official . If you think the people of the country are in favor of it, you are greatly mistaken. When they come to pay the bills that we have incurred in this session of Congress, and when they will be called upon to pay taxes that must necessarily be levie<l because of those authorizations and in the incurring of those cxpenditm·es, it will not meet with their approval if they know that in the closing hours of this session we have picked out llere and thet.·e a Federal offici.al and increased his alary, and that practically within 24 or 48 hours we will take into consiUeration a confer .. ence report proposing to give to the boys who went acros 3,000 miles of ocean to fight and offer up their lives a bonus of $60. For those reasons, among others, much more important perhaps, I am opposed to the measure~ and I trust that the rules will not be suspended. [Applause.]

1\fr. O'SHAUNESSY. Mr. S11eaker, I want in all solemnity to plead guilty to the horrib~ .charge of trying to suspend the rules, and I throw my elf on the mercy of the court. I ask my friends to \-ote for this bilL .

The SPEAKER. The question i on suspentiing the rules ana passing the bilL

The question was taken. The SPEAKER. In the opinion of the Cll..'lir, two-thirds-_Mr. WALSH. 1\Ir. Speaker, I make the po]nt of order ther-e

is no quorum present. . .. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from A-fas achusetts rnnkes

the point that there is no quorum present, and evidently there is not. The Doorkeeper will close the door~, the Serge::mt at Arms will nntify the absentees, and the Olerk will call the t-olL The question is on suspending tlte rules and passing the bill.

The question was taken; and there wer~cas 113, nays 00 answered ;_,present" 4, not voting 21G. '

Alexander Almon Ashbrook Austin Barnhart Beshlin Blackmon Brand Burnett Campbell., Pa. Carter, Okla. Cleary Connelly, Kans. Crisp Curry, Cal. Dallinger Decker Denton Dill Doolittte Dupr~ Dyer Eagle Elston Eseh Fairfield Ferris Fisb~r Focht

Anderson Anthony Baer Bell Black Blantl, Ind. Bland, Ya.. Blanton Browning Buchan":J.n Hurroughs Byrnes, S. C. Campbell. Kans. Candler, Miss. Cannon Chandler, Okla. Clink. Pa. Collier Connanv. Tex. Cooper. ·w. Ya.. Cramton Cm·t•i(', l\licb. Dale Dan·ow

Kttchin

YEA,' 113. Fordney l!'oss Fuller, Mal's. Gallagher Gandy Gard Glynn xoodwin, Ark. Uordon Gray, Ala. Haskell Hayde-n Hayes Hensley Holland ffoll ingsworth IIumphreys .Tacoway Juul Keating Kehoe Kettner King Kinkaid Knutson Larsen Lea, Cal. Little Litt!Rpage

r,obccli:: Lonclon Lonergan Lnlkin Lun-deen :McKeown

fan field Iapes

MartJn Mason Montague loores, Ind. ~~an Nelson., A, P. Osborne O'Sbaune.ssy Overstreet l~a.rker, N.J. Peter Pllel:m Polk Ra{:Sda.le Ra.mey, J. W. ILa.ker R.a.msey Rand aU Rnnkln llobln.son

N.AYS-90.

rtogers Rouse Sa bath •'anfortl ~iegel ~inn ott ;•mall • 'mitll, C. B. ~tee-nerson Stevenson StinPss Strong Sumners Tillman Tilson Tinkham Voigt W.a.lk.ins Weaver Welty Wheel-er WhHe,l'tle. Wilson, IJL . Wilson, Tex. Wingo Wr·ight

Dnvi Ilull, Iowa S:mders, Ind. Den1 on James Rcott, Mieb. Dies .Johnson, Ky. Rhackle!ord Hillon .John-son, Wasb. Shallenberger Dominick Jones Sisson Dowell Kelly, Pa.. Sloan Dunn Kincheloe Rmith, Mich. Edmond Krau Snook

~!~!rth ~~fl::~ ~~fe~en~ Miss. l!~airehild, B. L; McCul.l-<x:h Temple Field!'; l\[cJ,aughlin. Mlch.Thompson. French Mmer, Waslt. Timberlake Ha.rn<.'r Moor<.', Pa. Treadway Graham. Ill. Nichols. Mlcll. Ve.nable Oreen. Iowa l'arker: K Y. Vestal . Green ;~rass. Purnell - Volstead Hrecnt', Vt. · Quin Walsh lindley Ra.illey, IT. T. . Wason JU\mllton, Mich. ltamseyer .\Vatson, l'a. H:1ugrn Raybtu·n Welling l tnwlt'y · Romjue Willi.ams 1 IC'rsey Rose Young, '.fex. 1Imh11eston llubC'y ~ihlman

.-\~SWERED "PRF...SE~T "--4 . ' Jl.loon . .- lt<"avis .n<'ed

;_ ..

CONGRESSIONAL . RECOR.D-HOUSE. FEBRUARY 3 , NOT \OTING~21G.

Aswell Evans Kiess, l'a. Rowland .Ayres Fairchilu, G. W. Krei<ler Rucker Bacharach Farr La Follette Russell Bankheau Fess LaGuardia :Sanders, La. Barkley Flood Lampert Sanders, N.Y. Beakes Flynn Lazaro Saunders, Va.

- , Ben on Foster Lee, Ga. Schall Birch Francis Lesher 'cott, Iowa Booher Frear Lever Scully Borland Freeman Linthicum "ears Bower FuJler, Ill. Longworth Sells Britten Galliyan Lunn Sherley Bro!li.Jcc;k Garland McAndrews Sherwood fuowne Garrett, Tenn. McArthur Shouse Rrnmbaugh Garrett, '.rex. McClintic Sims . Butler Gillett McCormkk Slayden Ryrns, Tenn. Godwin, N. C. McFadden • lemp Caldwell Good McKenzie Smitll, Idaho Cantrill Goodall • McKinley Smith, '.r. F. Caraway Hould McLaughlin, ra. Snell Carew Graham, Pa. McLemore Snyder Carlin Gray, N.J. Madden Stafford Carter, Mass. Gregg Magee Steagall Cary Griest Maher Stedman Chandler, N.Y. Griffin Mann Steele Church Hamill Mays Stephens, :Kebr. .Clark, ~Ia. Hamilton, N. Y. Merritt Sterling Classon Ilamlin Miller, Minn. Sullivan Clar.~col Hardy Mondell Swift Coady HarriSOJ:l, Ml ·s. Morin Switzer

. Cooper, Ohlo Harrison, Va. Mott Tague Cooper, Wis. Hastings Mudd Taylor, Ark. Copley Heaton . Nelson, J. IJ. Taylor, Co!o. Costello Heflin Nicholls, S. C. Templeton Cox Heintz Nolan Thomas Cmgo Helm ·Norton . Towner Crosser llelvering Oldfield Van Dyke Davey Hicks Oliver, Ala. Yare Delaney Hilliard Oliver, N.Y. Vinson

. .Demvsey Hood Olney Waldow · -Dent Houston Overmyer Walker

\Dewalt Howard Padgett . Walton Dickinson Hull, Tenn. PPaairge Ward Di.x:on Husted ~k Watson, \n .

. ,, Donovan Hutchi.nson Platt Webb_ ·Dooling Igoe Porter Whaley Doremus Ireland Pou Whlte, Ohlo Doughton .Tohnson, S.Dak. Powers Wilson,·IJl. Drane Kahn Pratt Winslow Drukker Kearns Price Wise Eagan . Kelley, Mich. Hiordan Wood, Ind. Emerson I(ennedy, Iowa Roberts Woods, Iowa Essen · Kennedy, R.I. Rodenberg Woodyard Estoplnal Key, Ohio Rowe Young, N.Dak.

The Clerk announced the following additional pairs: Until further notice: Mr. KITCHIN with Mr. l\IA. 'N. Mr. MooN with Mr. TEMPLETON. 1\.Ir. BooHER with Mr. BUTLE. 1\lr. B'l:"RNS of Tennessee with Mr. CoPLEY. Mr. CARLIN with Mr. CRAGO. Mr. Co.ADY with l\fr. FREAR. 1\lr. DOREMUS w·ith Mr. FULLER of Illinois. 1\Ir. EVANS with Mr. HUSTED. Mr. HAMLIN-with Mr. HUTCHINSON.

· 1\Ir. GALLIVAN with Mr. KEN!>."EDY .of Rhode I land. :Mr. LAzARO with Mr. KIEss of Pennsylmnia. Mr. HELM with l\fr. McARTHUR. Mr. McLEMoRE with Mr. McKENziE. 1\Ir. McCLINTIC with 1\Ir. MAGEE. Mr. OLNEY with l\Ir. SNELL. 1\lr. SHERWOOD with 1\Ir. SMITII of Idaho. Mr. STEDMAN with 1\Ir. TOWNER. Mr. STEAGALL with Mr. Goon. Mr. TAYI.OR of Arkansas with l\Ir. CARTER of Massachusetts.

, Mr. TAGUE witlll\ir. CHAl\I>LER of New York. 1\ir. "WHALEY with 1\lr. SLEMP. Mr. 'VEBB with l\fr. G. ,V. FAIRCHILD. The SPEAKER. On t.his vote the yeas are 113, the nny · 96,

and. nresent 4-not a quorum. AD.JOUR~MENT.

1\lr. ·KITCHIN. I move that the House do now adjourn. The motion was agreed to; accordingly (at 6 o'clock and 30

mii1utes p. m.) the Hol1se adjom·ned, pur uant to the order· previously made, until to-morrow, Tue. day, February 4, 1919, at 11 o'clock a. m.

EXECUTIVE 00~11\lUNICATIO~S. ETC. Under elanse 2 of Rule ::S:XIV, executi\e communications were

taken from the Speaker's table and referred as follows: 1. Letter from the president of the Wa hington Railway &

Electric Co., h·i:tnsmitting report of the Washington RaihYay & Electric Co. foi· the year ended December 31, 1918 (H. Doc. 1\'o.

· 17Jl) ; to the Committee on the Di trict of 'olumbia nml or-dered ·to be printed. ·

2. Letter from the Secretary of w·ar, tmnsmitting 'a copy of a bill to relieve the estates· of the late Capt. Bel..-edere BrookSt Capt. Samuel I. Zeillner, Cnpt. C. " 7

• Gaylord, and Lieut. Joim

.v. ·D. Bebell from responsibility or accountability for the sum of $173.26 lost in battle (H. ·Doc. No. 1752) ; to the Committee on Military Affairs and ordered to be printed.

3. Letter from the Secretary of War, transmitting a copy of a bill providing for retirement, as master signal electrician, of enlisted men of the Regular Army who have heretofore been discharged to accept commissions in the Army of the ·United States during the present emergency (H. Doc. No. 1753) ; to the Committee on 1\.filitary Affairs and ordered to be printed.

4. Letter fTom the Secretary of the Interior, transmitting list of documents and papers which are not needed or useful in the transaction of the current business of the department and have no permanent value or historical interest (H. Doc. No. 1754) ; to the Committee on Disposition of Useless Executive Papers and ordered. to be printed. ·

5. Letter from the Secretary of the Treasm~y, transmitting copy of communication from the Secretary of the Navy submitting an estimate of appropriation to pay claims fot· damage by naval vessels a<ljusted by the Navy Department (II. Doc. No. 1755); to the Committee on Appropriations and ordered to be printed.

6. Letter from the Secretm•y of the Treasury, · transmitting copy of a communication from the Secretary of 'Var submitting an estimate of appropriation to pay claims for damages by collision, river and harbor work, whlch have been· adjusted and settled by the Chief of Engineers, United States Anny · fH. Doc. No.~ 1756); to the Committee on Appropriations and onlered to be printed.

7. Letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, transmjtting copy of a communication frQm the ' 'Clmirman ·of ·the Lincoln Memorial A ociation submitting aJ?. estim-ate of appropriation required to defray · the e~-penses incident to the dedication of the Lincoln Memorial (-H. Doc. No. 1757); to the Committee on Appropriations ruid ordered to be printed. · ·,'

. . REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PUBLIC BILLS .~'\"D

RESOLUTIONS. Under clause 2 of Rule XIII, Mr. PHELAN, from the Committee on Banking nntl Currency,

to which was referred the bill ( S. · 5236) to · amend sections 7, 10, and 11 of tb.e Federal reserve act and s · tion 5172, Revised Statutes- of the United States, reported the same with amendment, accompanied by a report (No'. 1026), which said bill an<l report were referred to the Comniittee of ·rue Whole House on

· the state of the Union.

REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PRIVATE BILLS AXD RESOLUTIONS.

Under cla~1se 2 of Rule XIII, private bills nn<l resolutions \Yere severally reported from committees, delivered to tlle Clerk. and referred to the Committee of the Whole House, as follow :

Mr. WELLING, from the Committee on 'laim , to wlliclt was referred the bill (H. R. 11836) for the relief of l\lary Holloman, reported the arne with amen<lruent, accompanie<l lJy a report (No. 1029), which aid .bill and report were referred to the Private Calendar.

He also, from the same committee, to whi ·h was referre(l the bill (H. R. 11835) for the relief of Jimmie Lou l\lnrtin, reported the same with amendment, accompanied by ·a 1;eport (No. 1027), wllich snid biJl and report were referred to the Private Calen<lar.

He al o, from the same committee, to which was referred the bill (H. n. 11834) for the relief of William Henry Coleman, reported the arne with amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 1028), which said bill and report were referred to the Private Calendar. · -

PUBLIC BILLS, RESOLUT.ION , AXD ::\IEM HI.ALS.

Under clause 3 of Rule XXII, bills, resolution ·, and inemorials were introduced and severally referred as follow · :

By Mr. BARNHART: A bill (H. 'R. 15574) fo r til con ~ truction of a Federal building at War ·aw, Ind.; to ' the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds.

Also, a bPl (H. R. 1;3575) for the constrnction of a public building nt Plymouth, Ind . ; to the Committee on Public Build-ings an<l Grounds. ·

By Mr. OVERSTREET: A bill (II. R. 1.-576) for the erection of a public building at 'Vayn boro, Ga.; to the Comiuittee on Public Buildin"'~ and Grounds.

Also, a bill (H. R. 15577) fot· the purcha e of a post-office site at l\Iillen, Gn.; to the Committee on Public Building-s :md Grounds.

By 1\lr.' TAYLOH of Arknn as: A. biJl · (H. H. 1557 ) to l)l'ovide for the erection of a public building at l\lcGebe . A1·k.; to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds.

1919. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2647 - - -

, Also, a bill (H. R. 1551!))· to provide for the erection of a By Mr. HA.YDEN: A bill (H. H. 15611) authorizing a prelimlpublic building at · Malvern, Ark.; to the Committee on Public nary examination to be made of the Colorado River, with u view Buildings and Grounds. . . to controlling the flood water thereof; to the Committee on

Also, a bill (H. n. 15580) to provide for the erection of a Flood Control. public builtiing at Benton, Ark.; to the Committee on Public By 1\Ir. S"rEGEI.J: A resolution (H. Res. 54li) to have· the

·Buildings and Grounds. Speaker appoint a selec_t committee of eight to inquire into the . Also, a bill (H. R. 15581) to provide for _the erection of a charges affecting the Military Establishment of the United public building at Monticello, Ark.; to the Committee on Public States; to the Committee on Rules. Buildings and Grounds. By l\!r. WATKll~S: A resolution (H. Re ·. 546) providing for

- By Mr. MANSFIELD:' A bill (H. n. 15582) -authorizing the a special _ rule for the immediate con.:ideration of Ho.use ' bill ecqui ition of a site for a _public building at Hallettsville, Tex.; 13304; to the Committee on Rules. to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. By Mr. MOORE of Pennsylvania: A resolution (H. Res. 547)

By Mr. ROBINSON: A bill (H. n. 15583) to provide for the to pay E. F. Keis ter, cler:k to the late Edward Robbins, a ·Repreerection of a public building at Laurinburg, N. C.; to the Com- sentative in Congress, ~166.66; to the Committee on Accounts. 111ittee on Public Buildings and Grounds. By the SPE.Ah.'"ER: A memorial from the Legislatlu·e tof the

By Mr. HULL of Iowa: A bill (H. R. _15584) regulating the State of Oregon favoring woman suffrage; to the Committee on p~riod of enlistment in the Regular. Army of the United States; Immigration and Naturalization. . to the Committee on Military Affairs. · Also, l} ' memorial fron?- the Legislature of the State of New · By Mr. KETTNEH: A hill (H. n. 15585) authorizing anti York relatiYe to regulating the construction of dams across direct~ng the Secretary of 'Var to cause survey to be made of navigable " ·aters and to 'pro·dcle for the improvement and dethe Colorado H~ver, with a Yiew to controlling the flood ,-...ater of I velopment of waterways _for the use of interstate an~ ~oreigu srud stream, and for other purpose ; to the Committee on Flood cornmercG; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Com-Control. . · : · rnerce.

By Mr. HOOD: A bill (H. R. 15586) nuthorizing the acquisi- Also, a memorial from the Legislatur~ of Oregon, favorilW the tion of n site for .a public building at Clinton, Sampson County, enactment -~Y Congress of Senate bill 428~3; to the Co~n.iitteo N. C.; to the Co~mittee on l'nblic Buildings and Grounds. on the Public Lands.

Al. o a bill (H. R. 15587) for the er<'ction of a public building By Mr. FULLER of Illinois: A memorial from the Legislature nt :Mount Olive, 'Vnyne County, N. U.; to the Committee on of lllinoi ' memorializing Congres to provide at least six m01iths' Puhlic Buildings auti Grounds. extra pny for all soldiers, sailors, aml marines when discharged

By Mr. HAWLEY: A bill (H. n. 15588) r~uiring The Adj-u- from 1-':ervice; to the Committee on Military Affairs. 'tnnt General _ o! the _United States Army antl the Secretary of By Mr. GALLAGHER: Memorial from the Legislature of the the Navy to furnish certain data to the atijutants general of the State of Illinois memorializing Congress to provide at least six seYel'al Stat s; to the Committee on Military Affair!'!. months' extra pa~- for all soldiers, sailo_r , anti marines when

By 1\fr. HERSEY: A bill (H. R. 15589) authorizing the Sec- discharged _ from service; to the Committee on MilitarJ-' Affairs. retary of War to donate to the to,·vn of Presque Isle, Me., one By 1\Ir. McARTHUR: :Memorial from the Legislature of the German cannon or fieldpiece; to the Committee on Military State of Oregon favoring the passage of the eJucational bill Affairs. (S. 4987); to the 'ommittee on Education.

By Mr. CRAGO: A bill (H. R. 15590) to increase the cost o! AI o, memodal from the Legislature of the Stnte of Oregon the public building at 'Vnyne burg, ra. ; to the ·Committee on urging the passage of a bill introduced by Congressman SINNOTT l'ublic Buil(lings anti ·Grounds." · appropriating "1,000,000,000 for reclamation and drainage of

By Mr. BLAND of Virginia: A bill (H. n. 15591) authorizing lands in the western portion of tlte United States; to the Corn-the Se.cre.tary o,f ";rar to donate to the town of Irvington,'~ounty mittee on the P_ublic Lands. . • of Lancaster, Va., one German cannon or fieldpiece; to the Com- Also, rnemorwl from the Le~nslature of the State of 0r£>gon m ittee on l\lilitary AffairR,. . favoring the developll1ent of arhl lands in the lower Umat illa

By l\lr. ROWLAND: A bill (H. n. ].55!:12) to increase the cost RiYer Ba. in; to the Committee on Reclamation of Arid Land~. of the public building at State College, :Pa.; to the Committee Also, memorial from the Legislature of the State of Oregon on Public Buildings and Grounds. urging the passage of Senate bill 5001; to the Committee on

Also, a bill _(H. R. 155!>3) to increase the cost of the public Immigration and Naturalization. building at Dubois, ra., to the Committee on Public Buildings Also, memorial from the Legislahu·c of the State of Oregon nnd Grounds. m·ging the t)nssage of Senate bill 42 3; to the Committee on

Mr. GRAH..<\.:.\1 of Illinois : A bill (H. n. 1559-!) to authorize the Public Lands. -tJ1e Secretary of War to fumish a German cannon, with car- By l\Ir. ~lcCLI~TIC: :\Iemorinl from the Legislah1re of the 1·iagc and cannon ball ; to the c-ity of War ay<;·, Ill.; to the Com- State of Oklal10ma urgin~ the pas:-;age of such legi lation as roittee on Military Affairs. will make sure for the farmers of the country a guaranty of a · By l\Ir. l\IAPES: A bill (H. R. 15395) authorizing the Secre- minimum price of $2.20 11e-r bu bel or the wheat gro,vn in the tary of War to donate to the Yillage of Rockford, :Mich., one Ger- year 191D; to the Committee on Agriculture. n1m1 cannon or fieldpiece; to the Committee onl\Iilitary Aff-airs. Also. memorial from the Legislature of the State of Oklahoma

By :Mr. CHURCH: A bill (H. n. 15596) for the purchase of a requesting proper distribution of captured war material be public-building site at Visalia, Cal.; to the Committee on Public made to the citie!=:, town •, and counties of that State ; to the Buildings and Grounds. Committee on Military Affairs.

By Mr. McKLNLEY: A bill (H. n. 15597) authorizing the By l\Ir. SABATH: Memorial of_the Legi lature of the State of Secretary of War to donate to the city of Villa Grove, Ill.; one Illinois favoring the payment of six: months' salary to soldiers, German cannon or fieldpiece; to the Committee on Military sailors, and marines on return to ciYil life; to the Committee on affairs. Military Affairs.

Also, a bill (H. R: 13iJ98) authorizing the Secretary of War to donate to the city of Arcola, Ill. , one German cannon or fieldpiece; to the Committee on ).lilitary Affairs.

By I\lr. S~Lt\.LL: A bill (H. n. 16'599) for the erection of a public building at Edenton, N. C.; to the o_ommittee on Public Builtiings and Grounds.

Al o, n bill (H. H. 15600) authorizing the acquisition of n .-ite for n public building at Williamston, N. C. ; to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds.

Also, a bill (H. R. 15601) authorizing the acqui ition of n site for a public building at Hertford, N. C.; to the Committee on PulJlic Buililings and Ground ·.

By Mr. DENTON: A bill (H. R. 15GOS) to incorporate the '\Ya1· l\Iothers of AFnerica.; to the Committee on the District of Columbia.

H:.- l\fr. BLACKMON: A bill (H. R. 15GOD) to establi!';h a fish(•lJ!tuml station in the State of Alabama; to the Committee on th!-l l\-Ierchant Marine and Fisheries.

.-\.1. o, a bill (H. n. 15610) for the erection of a public b_uilding . at Syhwauga, Ala. ; to the Committee on Public Buildings and

Grounds.

PIUYATE BILLS A.1~D RESOLUTIONS.

Under clause 1 of Rule X..."\:II, priYate bills an<l resolutions were introduced and severally referred as follows:

By l\lr. ASHBROOK: A bill (H. H. 15602) granting a pension to Annie Myers; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions.

By l\1r. CARY: A bill (H. R. 15003) granting an increase of pension to l\lichael l\1cCormick ; to the Committee on InYalid Pensions. ·

By 1\lr. CRAGD : A bill (H. H. 15604) granting a pension to Charle T. Picken. ; to the Committee on Pensions.

By Mr. CURRIE of :\Iichigan: A bill (H. R. 15605) granting a pension to :Margaret Donahue; to the Committee on InYalid Pensions.

By l\lr. RuCKER: A bill (H. n. 15606) granting an increase of pension to WilliamS. StQ~InYell; to the Committee on Invalid P en_sion_s. .

Ry ~lr. WHITE of -:\l:.line: A bill (H. n. 15G07) granting an increa e of vension to Andrew Sidlinger; t_o .tl1e Committee on Invalid Pensions.

2648 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. FEBRUARY 4,

PETITIONS, ETC." cause dlsorganization, and large revenues will thus be lost to Under clause 1 of nule XXII, petitions and pnpers were laid the Government; to the Committee on Ways and Means .

.on the Clerk's desk and referred as follows: , By Mr. NEELY: Petition of 0. J. Morrison, of Morrison De· By Mr. BURROUGHS: Resolution of New Hampshire Associa· partment Store Co., Charleston, W. Va.., Tequesting that tax bill

tion of Insurance Agents (Louis G. Merrill, president; George E. be kept down to $4,000,000,000; to the Committee on Ways ~rp.d ,Vermille, secretary-treasurer), protesting against placing of Means. :Workmen's compensation and liability in the hands of a profit. Also, petition of S. P. Pubber, managing director of chamber sharing concern, etc.; to the Committee on Interstate and For- of commerce, Charleston, W.Va., requestin.,. that tax bill be kept eign Commerce. down to $4,000,000~000; to the Committee on Ways and Means.

· Also, petition of El ie L. Norton and Emma H. Cooper, Also, petition of Thomas Shoe Co., Chari ton, W. Va., re-Lakeport, N. H., for repeal of the po tal "-zone" rate bill; to questing that tax bill be kept down to 4,000 000 000 · to the the Committee on Ways and Means. Committee on Ways and Means. ' ' '

Also, resolution of tbe New Hampshire 1\Ianufactrtt·ers' Asso- Al o, petition of Wheeling Clearing House A. sociatlon Wheel· dation, in opposition to the continuance of the United States ing, W. Va., requesting that ta.x bill be kept dm-n1 to Employment Service; to the Committee on Labor. $4,000,000,000; to the Committee on Ways and 1\feri.ns.

1 Also, resolution of Manchester (N.H.) Chamber of Commerce, By Mr. SCHALL: Petition of Minnesota State Horticultural favoring enactment by Congress of a law which will continue Society, protesting Quarantine Order No. 37; to the Committee the control and operation by the Government of the telephone on Agriculture. 1Uld telegraph ystem pending further investigation regarding By Mr. TILSON: Petition of James S. Rimkus and other dti· future procedure; to the Committee on the Post Office and Post zens of Lithuanian birth, of Waterbury Conn. in behalf of Roads. Lithuania; to the Committee on Foreign Affair._. '

Al o, petition of 1\Ietal Trades Council, American Federation of Labor, Portsmouth, N. H., George A.. Cate, secretary, to pay all enlL~ed men returning to their homes their military wages for six months after their discharge or until they can obtain usefnl and remunerative employment; to the Committee on Mili- . 'tary Affairs.

By 1\ir. DARROW: Petition of GermantOwn Horticultural Society, of Philadelphia;, Pa., protesting against the ruling of the

1Department of Agriculture prohibiting the importation of plants, bulbs, trees, etc. ; to the Committe.e on Agriculture. • Also, petition of Philadelphia Rotary Club in behalf of changing the name of the Panama Canal to the " Roosevelt Canal " ; to 'the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce.

By Mr. GRA.IIAM of Illinois: Petition of G. B. Gaylord, of rRock Island, Ill., and 115 other employees of the Rock Island r'Arsenal, Rock Island, IlL, that action be taken immediately !to th.e end that all equipment used in the Army, Navy, Merchant 1 Marine, Postal Servke, .and other equipment used by the 1Government be manufactured in the Government shops to their full capacity; to the Committee on :Military Affairs.

By Mr. HADLEY; Petition of citizens of Port Angelus, Wash., ' 1·eque ting repeal of po tal zone rate bill; to the Committee on ,Ways and 1\feans.

A.l o, petition of citizens of Big Lake, Wash., urging repeal of p stal zone rate bill; to the Commitee nn Ways and Means.

Ry Mr. HERSEY: Petition of W. E. Watts and three other eitizens of Easton, Me., urging repeal of postal zone rate law ; ~ to the -committee on Ways and Means.

Atso, petition of Virginia Dilling, of Bangor, Me., and three others, urging repeal of postal zone law; to the · Col:nmittee on

.tWays and Means. AI o. petition of Adelaide Mansur and 1.9 others, of Bangor, ,

Me. urging repeal of postal zone law; to the Committee Qn 1Ways and Means.

Hy Mr. HOLLINGSWORTH: Memorial of city council, the Exchange National Bank, the Commercial National Bank, and _the H_teubenville Bank & '.!'rust Co., of Steubenville, Ohio; tbe 'Fir:;:;t National Bank, of East Liverpool, Ohio; the Village Councll of 1\Iingo Junction, Ohio; and S~wart & Ward, Bellaire, Ohio, :fa~oring the .continuanee of Government control of public utll-1-ties until Congress -can ' give full consideration to the subject · lo_oking to a return of the properties to the owners under a..s favorable condHions as po sible; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign . Commerce.

By l\Ir. KETTNER: Petition of l\Ir. Harry W. Kratz, Calexico Ca 1., t.ertaining to the tax on haberdashery, hats, and shoes -i ~ the revenue bil.l; to the Committee on Ways and Means.

AL:o petition of · b.o~ud of ill rector of Imperial Irrigation Di ·trict, El ntro ua.L, approving ecretary Lane's plan to provide hom for returning soldiers; to the Committee on l\IiU ta ry ·Affair • ·

By 1\Ir. l\lOR~--: Petition of Paul Bro ·., William Grabowsky & ~on, Kaufmann·:-; "The Big Store," and McCreery & Co., all or l'itt:.:hnrglt Pa.~ protesting against the proposed luxm·y tax in Ut pentllng 1·en~nue bill ru entailing an unjust burden on the commm L' nn<l giving the GoYernment but a small return in revenlle; to tlte Committee on Ways and l\leans.

Hy Mr. TUHN: Petition of electrical class, Polytechnic IDgl1 S ·hoo1, Sun Francl co, a1., asking .for amateur ra~o operators in legjslation affecting radio-telegraph station ; to the Com-mittee on the_ l\Ierchant :Marine and Fisheries. , ., H." l\Ir. - 1\IO!tl~: P~ttion ot .C<,>S_I!Jopolit~n Club, .pf. ~lttsburgh; Pa.,., Hob~rt I~~rr, vr:~sldent, . p~·~t~~Ung against .-UJ,e .: increase __ of tile tax on club dues', as it will seriously reduce chili rec~ipts,

SENATE. TuESDAY, February 4, 1919.

(Lcgi-sla-ti'l:'c day of Mondc;-v, Pebnwry 3, 1919.)

The Senate met nt 12 o'clock noon, on U1e expiration of the recess.

Mr. SHERMAN. 1\Ir. President-..... The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator from illinois . . Mr. JONES of Washington. I suggest tbe absence of n

quorum. The VIpE PRESIDENT. The Secretar \viii c.,'lll the roll. The Secretary called the ron, and the following Sen-ator a~r

swered to their names: Baird Gronnn. McKellar Bankhead Hale MeN~ Chamberlain - Henderson l\Iarthi, Ya. Culberson J obnson, Cal. Moses Curtis .Jones, N. Mex. 1\Iyer. · Dillingham · .Toues."Wasb. Nugent Fernald .Kenyon Page Fletcher Knox Poindexter France · La Follette Pollock Gerry Lenroot Sheppard

Hberman Smoot · Spence!· Swanson Thomas Tinderwoocl · Wad worth

Mr. LENROOT. I desire to announce tll ab n\: on oft1cial business of the Senator from Georgia [Mr. lliRDWI ·rr] and the Senator from Florida [l\Ir. TRAMMELL].

1\Ir. McKELLAR. The senior Senator from Tcnne ·see Ll\Il'. SrriELnsJ is absent on account of illness.

The VIQE PRESIDENT. Thirty- even Senatot·s have answered to the roll call. There is not a quorum present. The Secretary will call the roll of absentees. ·

The Secretary called the names of the ab~ ent euators, and 1\fr . .JoHNSO..'i of South Dakota, Mr. KmBY, Mr. NELSoN, Mr. SMITH of Georgia~ l\Ir. TRAl..tMELL, 1\fr. WALSH, Mr. WATSON, and Mr. 'Vo-LOOTT .answered to tlteir name· when called.

Mr. ' HARDING, Mr. Rournso.~:~, Mr. NEw, 1\!r. OvERMAN, 1\Ir. FBELINGITUYSEN, Mr. KELLoGG, aud 1\ir. SUTHERLAND ntered th Chamber and answered to their names. . Mr. SUTHERLAND. The senior Senator from West Virginia.

{Mr. GoFF]1s absent on aecount of illness. Mr. BollA.H, Mr. McLEAN, Mr. STER-LING, M.r. KL.~G Mr. HAF

ROTH, 1\Ir. THOMPSON, 1\Ir. POMERENE, 1\Ir. GAY, anll 1\lr. C'uM· MINs entered the Chambe1· and answered to their uame .

Mr. GERRY. I de ire to announce that the • enator from Oklahoma [Mr. GoRE] is neee: nrily detained on official lmsi-ne s. ,

1\I.r. 1\lA.RTIN of Virgjnia. Til~ enior Senator from Mary. land [Mr. SMITH] and the senior • 'enator from Mi sissippi [1\.h·. WILLIAMs] are detained by illn-ess. _

Mr. GAY. My eolleague, the senior Senator feom Loui. iana [l\Ir. RANSDELL], ls absent on account of rune.s . -

The VICE PRESIDENT. Sixty-one Senator ·· htrre an ·wercd to theit· names. There js a quoJ.·nm pre ent.

SENATOR :rn::o}r IOW"A. •

Mr. ·u~IDIINS. I present the credential · o( my oliE>-ague [Mr. KEXYO.Y] for the term beginning Mar }j 4 uext wllich I a ·k mny be read and filed. ' _

The credentials were read and ordered to be filed, as follows : • STATil 01!' low A. EXECUTIV~ DBPARTMEXT.

Certificate of election. -lo- a_~l ,to to1wm !Jt~,_e_ P/eseilts _shaU cotne, o1·eetinu: _ _

- ~now ye. tl!at it.·appetuing from the ·omcial <'RDV!\SS of th~ v te cas~ at "the g'eucral ·cl~ct-ion -hehl ·wlthill and fot the' Stnte · of ·Towa ·on 'Tue•· day, tbe· ::sth day o!"Novcmbcr-, A. D. ·1918; otllat WILLIAM -s. KE:Sl."'N; ot

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