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1 .

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2 STATE OF I:ICI!IGla

3 IN T!!E CIRCUIT COURT FOR Tl!E COU::TY OF f IDLtd D'

|^([. 4 --------- ----- .

)5 DOU CIIEMICAL CO!!PANY, )

)6 Plaintiff, )

)7 -vc- )

) No. 83-0022353 CO!!SUMERS POWER CO!!PA!!Y, ) >

)9 Defendant. ') -

)10 -------------------

11 The Continued Doposition of EUGE!?E GALLI.GIIER,taken before me, Glenn G. Miller, CSR-2506, Pegistered

12 Professional Reporter and Motary Pub.1ic within and for-the,

County of Uayne, ( Acting in Washington u. C.) , State of I'ichiganpg 13 at 65515th Street, Washington D. C., on Friday, July 27, 1904..

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15 APPEARAMCES: { () U*

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16 HIREL AllD & ELLIS ;}~

200 East Randolph Drive17 Chicago, Illinois 60601

(By James Goold, Esq.)18

Appearing on behalf of the Plaintiff,19

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BARRIS, SOTT, DEUU & DRIKER''

20 21st Floor First Federal BuildingDetroit, Michigan 402.76

21 (Ey Eugene Driker, Esq. ,

and Ellen M. !?cering, Ecq.)22

(, Appearing on behalf of the Def endant.

24.

PDR FOIA , \8805060072 880408fBARAK87-583 PDR

i.uted Reporting Sernce 39g4g g,,,,,,,,,,,y,,.gg.,,,, g,;gggSuite MO 962.!]76 Suite 220

Farmington Hills, Michigan 4801a. Detroit. Michigan 48226 -,

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1 APPEARA!!CES CO!1TI!!UED:.

2 1:EIL JEI:SEl?, Esq.

Of fice of General Counsel3 11uclear negulatory Commiscion

Uashington D. C. 20555I 4

Appearing on behalf of the !!uclear Regulatory Commiccion.5

17 I T N E S S I !! D E X'

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'7

Uitness E: amined Dy P F. t0

CUGEI1E GTILICI'ER !!r. Goold 3309

!:r . Eriker 35710

I4r. Goold 52311

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13(-

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14 EXH IDIT I11O E::

15

15 Exhibit 17o. Deccription rago

17 P:: !!nc G1 Occument dated I: arch 31, 1900, 331Subject: Summary of February

10 27 L 28 !!eeting and Site Toticwith Consultants to Review

19" Soil Settlement4

20 PX 11RC 62 I:emorandum dated Februa'ry 13, 1979 333f rom James G. Keppler, to H. D.

21 Thornburg, Subj ect : l'idland

Summary Report22

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L.23

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24.

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2Luzod Reporting Service m 3.g,,,,, y,.7,,, g;yy,Suur MO 962.I176 .Suur 220

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i* &trat. Alichigan 482:6 Farmington Hdis. Stichigan 48018

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2' E X !! I B I T INDEX

3

' {' 4 E::hibit Mo. Description Pcge

1-5 PX CPC 529 Document dated March 9,1979 341 i

entitled.concumers Power Company6 . Discussion of_MRC Inspection Facts

Resulting from the !RC Inspection7_ of the Diccel Generator-Building

8 PX CPC 530 Document Produced by_ Consumers 350.

Power with headings NCR Dascription9 and Supporting Detailc, Part Correctivo'

4 Action and Procesc Corrective-Action10;.

PX BEC 237 Inter-office memorandum from R. L. 35411 Castleberry to J. F. Fewgen, dated

January 13, 1978, subj ect : Midland12 Plant Units 1 & 2, Job 7220, !!on-

conf ormance Reports, !!CR-100413-

(. PX CPC 531 Handwritten f our-page document 3 57 ,,

'

14 entitled Turnbull's 1:otes,

15 PX CPC 532 Handwritten Internci Correspondence, 362CPC, da ted' J une 30, 1991

16DX 27 9 Poring Log, !!idland Fuclear Plant, 410

17 Diesel Generator Buildin v.

la DX 200 Doring Log, !!idland fluclea r Plant, 41CAuxiliary Building.

19 'DX 201 Inter-office !:emorandum, da ted 1-13-7 0, 4 4 /.

20 from R. L. Castleberry to J. P. Fewgen,

Subject: 1:idland Plant Units 1 & 2,,

21 Job 7220, Adminictration BuildingPoundation Settlement

22(j DX 283 Recume of Eugene Gallagher 455

23DX 284 Atomic Safety L'icensing Appeal 469

24 Board, ::emorandum and Order,

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Luzod Reporting Service 3y3 ,, y,, y

Suur mm 962 1176 Site zwDetroit. \fickyan 482.% Farmington Hals. Michigan 48018

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2 0 % !! ID IT I M C 0 ::

3 -

(. 4 C::hibit No. Description Pcge

5 DX 282 First document f rom I:r. Horn's 471log, ne::t shectc meeting notes

G of September 25, 1970

7 P:: linC 63 Document entitled Nuclear 546Regulatory Conniccion Utaff/

8 Consumers Pouer Company OualityAssurance stipulation

9 -

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13,

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14 ,.

15,

15.

17

13.

10

20.

21

22

f,23

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ALuzad Reporting Service 3,,o ,,,,,,,,,,,,7,r,., , , , , , .y ,

962 1176 Suae 220Suur MOt Detroit, Michigan W.26 Farmington Hills, Michieu 48018

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l irashington D. C.. .

2 Friday, July 20, 1904

3 0:00 a. n.

( 4

F CUGEDE GALLAGHER

G was thereupon called as a witnese herein and, after

7 having been first duly sworn to tell the truth, the

3 whole truth and nothing but the truth, was c::anined

9 and testified as f ollcus:.

10 MR. GOOLD: Good norning, everybody. Th i s

11 is the resumption, pursuant to agreement, of the

12 deposition of M'r. Eugene Gallagher of the MRC.

13 EMA!:IDATION(

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14 BY MD. GCOLD:>.

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15 0 Mr. Gallagher, one subject we discussed yesterday was the

16 use of zero air voids curver in connection with the soil.

17 testina at the Midland Proj ect. One thing I'm not rure on.

'

1G when I went back and looked at ny notes was what your

19 recollection was as to when zero air voids curves were

20 plotted. Do you recall or can you be more precir, as to*

21 your recollection as to whether zero air voids curves were

22 plotted in connection with soil testing before or af ter.

23 the disclosure of the Diesel Ganerator Building settlenent

24 problem?.

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Luss,d Repor:ing Service 3,307 ,,, g,,g, ,Sate hw 962 1176 Syge gy

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Detrat. \fichigan 48:26 Farminston Hills, .\fichigan 48018-,

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1 A , After, , in :C,te conte::t of Concumers and Dechtel,

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2 . inver,i.1 gating on their own what the causes were.

3 0 Thank you. Let me show you a document, which I'll ask the

1 4- reporter to mark ac PX Hnc 61.

5 (Deposition Exhibit 1:o. PX tinc G1,

6 URC Document dated !! arch 31, 1980,

7 Subject: Summary of February 27 & 20,

8 1980 Meeting.and Site Tour with

9 Consultants to neview Soil Settlement,

10 ucs marked f or identification.)

11 BY .Mn. GOOLD:

12 0 Thf s i s a document dated March 31, 1980 and is entitled

'

13 Summary of Fobruary 27 and 28,1980 Meeting and Site Tour.g

14 with Consultbnts to noview Soil Settlement. Can you

15 identify'this document?

; 16 A You j ust did.

:. .17 0 nave you ceen thic docu' ment bef ore todcy?

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| 18 A Yec. ,

i 19 0 Did you see this document at or about the date indiccted,

j. 20 that is !! arch 31, 1980?

21 A Yes.

i 22 0 Uere you on the regular circulation list within the DRC> (,

23 for cuch documents?

24 A Yes.,

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$I3ng,,,,,f g,,_Luzod Reporting Service 39g49

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962 1176 Suite 220Suite MO

( Derms, Michigan 48226 Farmington Hills. Michigah 48018.

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1 0 Did you attend a naeting on the dates indicated, that ic,

2 February 27 and 23,1980 at I:idland to revleu coil

3 aettlement matters thoro?.

.

( 4 A Yes.

5 0 In fact, you' re listed ac one of the attendees at the

6 meeting, aren' t you?

7 A Yec.

8 Q Let me direct your attention to the second page of thic

9 e::hibi t, bottom half, and I' d like to ach particularly

10 about the portien which begins uith the paragraph "During

11 the meeting" and escries over through the fitst paragraph

*

12 on the no::t page. Uhat I'd firce just like to knou is.

13 Whether you recall in substance a discuscion ac cunmarized

14 in this portion o* the document?

15 A Yes.

15 0 And I note in particelar that the top paracroph of nage

17 three mentionc that the applicant indicatoc a relce::nc"

18 to this end, with ref erence to the linC request that the

10 document's litte': en page tuo be made publicly available.

20 Do you remember the applicant, that is Consumerc Pcwer,' so

21 indicating?

22 A I remember Gil *:ecley standing up and stating that. Let

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23 me add, thic uas -- at this meeting it was the first time,

24 that ue became aware that there vere numerouc ether.

Luod Repor:ing Service nku),,yguyLafayette Buildine 3,,g

.%:e hw 962 11,*6 c,,ge zyIktmt. \fichigan sc6 Farm:atton Ihlis.11ichies., A018

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1 documents that had not.previourt" been made aware to us.

2 and the way we became aware of them at that meeting was

3 Consumers' and techtel' c concultants thenceivec were

f 4 ref erencing certain docunents which we just had no

5 knowledge of up until that point in time. That then led

G us to go bach and develcp a nore e::tencive 50.54 " recuent

7 attempting to identify ac many docunente as ue ';new then

0 e::icted and trying to be all inclusive and find out what

9, other documente they had.,

1C 0 I cee. Let ne direct your attention to number three on

11 the list of documents that's on page tuo, which ref ers to

12 "Reportc, meeting summaries or other written

13 communications wit.h or by concultants 'reconnending or

14 suppo,rting remedial measures fcr ctructurec and utilitice

15 located upon or in questionable coils." '7as thct ene of

15 the categortec of documents whose e::istence you firc:

I17 learned of at thic meeting?

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10 ER. DRICEn: Leading quertion. '

19 1. That item was more general in trying to be all inclucive

20 as to what other parties to Sechtel or Consumers night b9,

.

21 aware of that we were not aware ef. It wac really fishing

22 at that point to make cure ve included everything

4.'23 regarding the remedial coils actions that Cancumers was

24 considering.|

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Luzod Reporting Service m 3.,,[' ,,, y33,,, g;,g;,,

Sag, 5y 962.]]76 & ate c.mOtmt. \fichigan 48:26 Farmington Hslis, Vichigan #18

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1. , BY liR.; GOOLD:

2 0 Uere you scehing notec prepared by consultatit cuch as the

3 handwritten notes of Dr. Peck ue've icohed at previoucly

C 4 in your deposition?

5 !:R. DnIKEn: Objection, Ica"ing.

5 DY !*n. COCLD:.

7 0 Let me direct your attention to, ucil, P:: Pech 1 fer

S e::ampl e. I'm trying to find cut whether a docunoht such

C as that uac intended to be within the ccope of that

10 request?

11 A All documents were intended to be uithin the scope of

12 this request. As I said, this was the first tire ve

13 started to believe we w'ere not getting the documents that

14 ve really needed to conduct a thorough eiti.s

15 invectigatien and/or revicu, technical review that the,

16 geotechnical. engineering branch needed in order to provido

17 their concultants, Corpo cf nginnert anc.c: herr, in rh.

,18 conduct of their work.

19 0 I see. Prior to your deposition had you e'rer cean P:'. Pech

20 17

21 A I don' t believe so.,

22 0 Looking at it now, and that ic PP. Pech 1, is it in fact

(23 within the scope of your request ac indicated in parngraph

24 number three en page tuo of thic e::hibit?.

Luzod Reporting Service 334'

Lafayette Buildky 3m40 Northurstern Huy.Suur hw 962 1176 State 2%Detroit, \fschigan 48226 Farmkaton Hills. \fschiean 48018

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'1 !!R. DRIROR: I objection to the question or,

. 2 leading.;

3 A Item three would include such documentc.

I 4 DY Cn. GOOLD:

5 0 You' ve mentioned that Mr. Reclcy c::presued reluctance t:

5 maho thece documents publicly cvailable. Did he inc'.ica t :

7 why?

3 A It wac burdencome to them to make copiec and provide all,

9 of this inf ormation, which was co voluminous. That'c the

10 phrase, these are voluminouc documentc, they cre availabic

11 to you if you vant to come to Ann Arbor or to Jac|: son but

12 as f ar as making them available through the requect thev.

13 would pref er not to. It nececcitated, if I recall,'

14 writing a 50.54 F requect with a more comprehensive list1 <

15 of specific documentc. There that we could at 1,e a c t find

15 out en our own voliticn e::icted, but try to make alli

17 inclecively any and all documente that rclated to ci 5 r.

18 our investigation or to the URR review effort.

19 0 Do you recall having any reaction to Mr. Eeeley'c position

20 as he expressed it at thic meeting?

21 A As I said, it necessitated the Mnc issuing a formal 50.54

22 F request which is part of our regulatient.

i (D~23 0 Let me direct your attention back to the top of pnge tu o ,

24 lact sentence in the first paragraph. At the very top it.

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335Luzod Reportine Service 3,g 9,,g ,,,,,, py,,4 ,,,,guagg962 1176 Susie 220Suite MO

Detroa, \fichige M226 Farmusttm l{dh, \fichigan 2018

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1 DaKe reference to a guote: "Significant slip in .

2 construction completion projected by Dechtel and currently

3 under review by the applicant", to you een that, sir?

I 4 Heve I given you the urong reference? It's at the top of

5 page tuo, first incomplete paragraph, final centence.

5 A Yoc.

7 o Dio you learn later in 19?,0 that construction centleri>:e

9 de tec had been -- new construction conpletion daten had

9 been announced by Consumers Pcwor?

10 A Uhen vac this?

11 0 Subs 9quent to this neeting.

12 A I don' t recall cpecifically. They were revicing their.

(.13 construction schedule pretty routinely bec:uce of

14 developing events..

15 0 As of the second half of 1930, do you recall uhat'the.

15 projected completten dates were for the I:idland f acility

17 cc announced by Concunerc rcuer?

18 A If I recall, it was comethina like December of 1093 or cc

10 or 19C4 perhaps..

20 0 O!;c y . By that time approximately, by the cocend half of,

21 1980, approximately how much time had you spent working on

22 matters involving the nidland Muc1 car Facility?

(#23 A In terns of?

24 0 numbers of hours f or c::anple. "as it hundred of hourc or.

.

Luzod Reporting Service 33630840 %.rthurstern Huy.Lafayette Buddune

Suur MO 962'lI ?6 Suar ?.Tll>trat. \fichigan M226 Farmington Hdis \fichigan 48018

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1 thoucando?.

2 A Nearly continuously f rom Auguct through !! arch or June of

3 1980 -- c:-:cuco me, I' m cor ry -- f rcn August of 197 8

4 through mid 1990.

5 0 And had you made a number of site visitc?

G A r.any of them. ,

l'ad you had an opportunity to observe the progrccc cf7 r

G conctruction through those site vicirc'?'

O A Ye c.

Did you have any reaction to the construction corriericn10 o

11 dates Consumerc Mwer was announcing in thic tinef rane,

12 and that is the second half of 1980?

13 fin. DRIZ?n: I'm going to obj ect to the

'

14 quection. I think the witness' previouc ancuer indicctac

15 that,he'c not sure uhether the completion date vac

15 December 1903 or December 1904. I don' t know how he can

17 tectify ac to whether he h u a reactica to ecnethinc hich

la he evidently procently does not knou.

19 I'E. GOOL D: Ile may not recall the specificc,

20 of the date but he can certainly testify and is congetent

21 to testify as to what his reaction was to the dcte,

22 whatever it uns,

t23 A In nid 1900 I quectioned whether the plant would ever be

24 conpleted knowir.g the e:: tent of the soile foundction.

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337Lusod Reporting Service 3n850 %.rthurstern liwy.Lafayette Buildsn.:962.!]i6 Suar 220h ar h30 ,

Detroa, \fichigu 48226 Farmington lislls. \fschieu $8018_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - - - _ _ _ - _ _ _ _

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1 deficiency.

2 BY !!R. GCOLD:

3 0 Event,u have cer tainly proven you vere correct. Let's go

i. 4 onto the no::t document, which I'll ach the reporter to

5 mark as PX !!nc 62.

G (Deposition 0::hibit l'o . PM tmC G2,

7 1:emercndua dated February 13, 1072,,

Iron Jamer,C. Heppler to P. D.

9 Thornburg, subj ect : "idland sunnary

IC P.e po r t , was marke6 f or identificcricn.)

11 EY "R. GOOLD:

12 0 Can you identify this document, sir?

13 A This is a nogion III summary report on the statur of the

14 !'idl.ind Proj ect.

15 0 Prepared as of when, sir?.

1G A As of Pebruary 197 0.

Did you participate in the preparation of thic dt>cument?17 o

18 A Yes. .

10 0 And did you receive a copy au or abcut the date indicated?

20 A Yec.

21 Q Let te direct your attentien -- first let ce ask you what

22 the purpoco vac for the preparation of thic report? '7a c

(#''23 there any particular reason this document was generated?

,

| 24 A Uell, Didland had had a fairly long history of cignificant,

338Lutod Reporting Sersice. 3M40 k.rthuntern lluy.f.afayette kidingSmte hw 962'll ?6 State 23'

Detemt. \fichaean #9226 Farmsneton flilk, \fschigan 49018

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1 . construction problems -and the . regional of fice 'f elt it,,

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2 would be usef ul to .compilo _a cummary on previous and

3 current events on the Midland Project so that the-.

{2 4 headquarters staff would be assecsed of both the trcch

5 record of Conenmers at. Midland and also the current-iacues

6 that cay interf ere with licensing of the plant.

7 Q Looking through the document now, if you would, are there

a any particular portions for which you were the principle'

,

D draftsman 7 -

j 10 A Primarily pago seven and part of eight, entitled Plant

!. 11 Fill-Diocel Generator Building Settlement.

12 0 Does that include the paragraph on page' eight which-

i

13 states: "Preliminary reviou of the.results of the negion

i14 III invectigation/invqstigation into the plant fill /Diocol

,

15 Generator Building settlement pr,oblem indicate many events.

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16 occurred betueen late 1973 and early 1970 which should

i 17 hcVe clerted Occhtel and the licencee to the pendingi

10 problem. These events included nonconf ormance reportc,

19 audit findings, field menos to engineering and probicms'

| 20 with the Administration Building fill uhich cauced

!'21 modification and replacement of the already poured f ooting

22 and replacement of the fill material with lean concrete"?,

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23 A Yes,f

| 24 0 Uas that your best j udgment on the subject as of the datet

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330Luzad Reporting ServiceQ,,, giggy yo3 , y'

962.]]76 Sa,e exSaur EmDetmt, %kiaan 48226 Famiraton Hills. Whigan 48018

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.1, _

you prepared that. portion of * Sis report?

2 A Yes.

3 0 una this document subject to any internal review process

C'' 4 within URC bef ore it was released in this forn?

5 Un. J2MSPU: '' m going to obj ect to that en

6 the crocecs privilege in that it looke as though it's

7 going'to get into higher review by UnC personnel. If u.ie

'

0 witnesc con ansuer this particular quocticn, fine, bu--

9 would object to discuccions of review by UnC perconnel if

10 that's what the question ic leading to.

11 UR. GOOLD: I' m not cure I undcretand the

12 scope of the objection you' re stating, but I don' t 'want to

13 get into a dispute about that without waiving whatever itf

14 is that ir at stake.

15 BY MR. GCOLD:

15 0 Go ahead if you can within the confines of your Councel's,

17 councel.

13 Un, JE::STU : Could we repeat the questicn,

19 please?,

20 (The requested portien of the

21 record was read back as f ollmis:

22 "0. '.'as thic document cubj ect to-

L.23 any internal review process within

24 URC before it was released in this.

.

i

Luzod Reporting Sersice 340'

f.afayette Badding 3m40 Northurstem Huy.Suite hw 962 1176 Sque zwiktroit, 11ichigan 48226 Farmington Hdis, \fschigen wo18

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1 f orm?")

2 MR. J llSEU: So you may answer that

3 particular question.

/. 4 7. It wac reviewed as normally all documents are reviewed by

5 cupervision and management prior to beir; releaced.

G DY !n. GOOLD:

7 0 Did you ever have occasion to discurs that paragr:ph with

3 anyone from Concunerc Pouer?

O A l'o , not in particular.

10 0 Let me direct your attention back to one of the

11 attachments in an e::hibit we previoucly covered, if I can

12 find it. Lcc me introduce it separatelv. Let me chmi

13 you a document, which I'll ash the reporter to mark ac Pn.

14 CPC 52 9..

,

15 (Deposition E::hibit no. PM CPC 520,

16 Document dated March C ,197 9,

17 entitled Concumerc rc'.ter Cornary

10 Discussion of URC Inspection Facts,

19 Resulting From The "PC Investigaticn

20 Of The Diesel Generator Building,

21 was marked f or identification.)

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22 BY MR. GOOLD:

C23 0 Can you identify this document?

24 A It's s . Consumer s Pcwo: Company Discussion of URC,

.

341Luzod Reporting Service m 3.g,,,, ff, ;9 6 2. l l i6 Siwe .%W5,, gy

Detrost, Alichigan 48:2t Farmington fisih. .%chigan 48018

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1 . Inspection Facts Resulting f rom the URC Investigation af

2 tho Diocel Generator Building. This was a document that.

3 we had yesterday as well. It wac in recponce to the

f 4 March 5th,1979 meeting at which the URC procented

5 preliminary findings of our invectigation.

G 0 Did you receive a copy of this document on or cbout the

7 date indicated, that is :crch 9,107 0?

3 A Yo c.

0 n And did you go over it at that time?-

10 A I believe I did.

11 C Let me direct ycur attention to page -- it's designated in

12 the l'ower right-hand corner U 31923.

13 "n. DnI:'. n: Uhat does the prefi:: U refer.

14 to? Uhat is the cource of t,he documents marked?

15 !!n. CCOLD: I'm not cure.

16 EY I:n. COOLD:

17 r. Let me direct your attention to the cac:nC Jar:cr ;.. c

18 this pace uhere the cratenent appears, "CECO Pr cj e ct

10 Engineer did not recall hearing of the adnidistratice

20 grade beam problem prior to Diesel Generator Ouilding'

21 settlement diccussions. This was not unusual beccuce the

22 field normally would recolve their own problemc and~'

23 r eq ue st accistance only when necessary." Do you cce that,.

24 sir?.,

Luzod Reporting Service 3L2, 5. , gLafayette BuildsneSaar hw 962 1176 suar n)iktrat. \fichisan 48%% Farmington Hills, \fichizan 48018

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1 A Yes..

"

2 0 Did you have e discussion with the CPCo Project Engineer

3 in which it was indicated that he did not recall hearing

I 4 cf the Administration Building grade bean problen?

5 A 1:ho are we referring to at this point?

5 o Pirct I'm going by title then I unc going to ack what the

7 nano 10, if you recall.

O A To tell you the truth, I don't recall the desitnation

C Concunerc ?ower Cenpany Proj ect Engineer.

10 0 ol:ay,

11 A The Proj ect I:anager uac I:r. Keeley. I don' t rencaber the

12 Pr oj ect Engineer decignation.

13 0 You don' t recall who held that title?,

14 A 1:ot offhand, at this given moment.,

15 0 I'm not sure I do either. Let me direct your artention to

15 the no::t concence which statec, "Thic vac not unusual

17 because the field nernally 'tould racclve thcir cun'

10 problems and request sccistance only when neccer.ary." 00

10 you recall going over this portion of the docunent at the

20 time ycu received it?.

21 A Yes.

22 0 Do you recall, was there any particular interent on your

('23 part at that time regarding who had known within the

24 Consumers Pcwer organi::ation of the AdministrationJ

I.

Luted Reporting Service 3),3 ,7, \.,,

962.]]76 Swie ;okar MO .

Detrat,' \fschigan 482:n Farmsneton listis. \fschigan 48018

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1 Building problem? I,|

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2 A To come c:: tent, yes.

3 0 Uhat did this sentence indicate to you? l1

I( .' 4 A Uell, it var a little bit out of the ordinary that sencone

i5 in the Proj ect 1:anagement position woulc not be aunte of c

G f airly cignific:nt event on a cite thnt both driay:

7 construction ac vell as resultc in contrcctual clair

? between their contr:ctor s.

0 0 Let ce direct your attention --

10 A E):cuce me. I can' t remember hic nano, but I to rcntnbor

11 having discuss' on with the Proj ect Engineer in Jachcon. I

12 remenbar the sene day we had the discuccion uith Pr. '

13 "eeley the Project Manager and his Proj ect Engineer. "is,

14 name cccapes no. If I saw it, I' m sure I would re. call it.,

15 0 And did the Project Cngineer in6icate that he did nor

13 recall hearing of the Administration 7uilding?

17- A Yec, I recal1 it distinctly.,

la O Let ne ask you whether you had any diccussions uith

1S Concuners Power about the ground rules under which thici

20 document would be prepared bef ore it came to you?

21 A Uc,

22 O Did anyone f rca Concuners Pcwer ever indicate to you

b23 whether this document was going to be a complete resPonce

,

24 to your repor t 78-207 i~i

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Luzad Reportinz Service ,o ., 3y, , ,, ,

Sder nw 962 1176 Sua, gyDetroit, \takien 48:26 Farmmaton Hdis, \takieu 48018

.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ,

n

1. l'R.. . DR IIjER : The question is leading. I,

2 cbj ect to it.

3 A Mo.

'. 4 DY MR. GOOLD:

5 0 Uere you ever given to underctand that any particular

G portienc vould be deleted, particular facts concurerr

7 Pcuer uould delete at vill fren their recrennoc?

8 l'P . DnIMER: Objection to the quencien ac

0 leading.

10 A ro,

11 B'l MR. GOOLD:

12 0 Let ne direct your attention to the portiens of thic,

13 document uhich are attachneht one and attachnent ti.' o .,

14 ?) "hore do you find that?

15 0 They begin on page U 3100 5. Pirct let ne cch, juct in

16 general terna, what was your underctanding of the

17 informaticn that uac being cet forth herc?

10 A It's a conpilatien of nonconf ormance reports.

10' O Do you recall uhat vac your understanding as to what

20 prompted the subniscion to the Mnc of a compilation cf

21 nc7conformance reports?

22 A It was our finding that there were repetitive.

(''23 nonconformances and that Consumers had not taken adecuate

24 corrective action to preclude further recurrence of such,

3; 5Luzod Reporting Servier y _y3,, gj3g,'

962 1176 sur, 33&ar Ak)Detmt, .\fid.ipan M2.% Famktton Hslis .\fwhican 2018

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d

1 nonconformanc-e.

2 0 And did Consuncrs Power dispute that finding?

3 A Ye s.

( 4 0 And what relationship, if any, did theen attachments have

5 to that disrnte? I

6 7 They were attempting to demonstrete that they hed taken

7 corrective Oction,

9 n Did you evar go over chin Cocument orcily uith anyone f ecn.

9 Concuners Pouer?

10 A I don' t recall.

11 0 You tactified j uct now to your under tanding as to what

12 thoce attachannts were all s' bout. '* ore you ever toic tha:.

13 directly by anyone f rom Consumers Power as well?

,14 A I think they were celf-evident. I don' t believe wr ucre

15 told that..

16 n Let ne direct ycur attentien to page U 31911. Lo re tch

17 ycu to tahe a ncnent, i:' you uill, to gn over thm n; : :.,

13 and the ne::t, which are the'diccuccionc of Unc number.

10 0."-19 9 ..

20 A Yec.. .

21 0 Do you see the heading MRC Description and Supporting

22 De tail s ?

C~ '23 A Yec.

24 0 Uhat was yocr understanding as to the inf ormaticn cet.

.

.

Luzod Reporting Servier 34GLafapur Buddine 3M40 krthururen HuySuar hw 962 1176 Suur :;NIMroa. \fschigan 48:26 Farmmeton tidis Michienn 48018

. _ _ _ _ -

,

.1 f orth under that heading?

2 A It simply is identifying deficiencies in noicture end

3 density tests.

4 0 Did you understand the inf ormation there to relate to Unc

5 number CT-lSD?

G A Yec.

7 r Let ne direct your attention no::t to the column he:ued

C Par Corrective Action?~

D A Yec.

10 n "het was your underttanding ac to uhat part corrective

11 action meant in the conte::t of this docuraent?

12 A I ' don' t recall. .

.

13 0 Let n'e direct your attentien to the ne::t headinc, which ic

14 Prococc Correctivo Action. "hat wac your underst:ndinc nr

15 to uhat that heading vac all about?- .

15 A It vac the corrective action that thcy tech cc corr-et the

17 cycter bre: hic'.tn thr.: nigh t h c- c c ee : r o d, '.*.:i ch r : el t '. .-

.

la in the deficiency.

19 0 Let' c look at the to::t uhi ch appearc undc r Frece sc

20 Corrective Action. Seneatn that tacy' r e subheadins'. Fort

21 one and part two. I notice that both cubhe:dingc end with :

22 the centence, "Therefore, the corrective acticn to

1

!~

23 preclude repetition for not clearing failing tects need

24 not be addrecsed." Do you see that centence?|

'

347'

Luzod Reportine Service ,go y,s _,,, y,,_,, ,

962 1176 , sure :Ssa,, $m ,

Derext, \fichigan 48:s Farmsneton Hsils. Whitw 48018'

. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _

1 A. Ye c .,

2 0 It appears under both part one and part tuo in thic

3 col umn, docen' t it?

l' 4 A Ye c. ,

,

5 0 Uhat did that isnguago mean to you?

G A I don' t recall at this point.

7 0 pell, let to first och you to go bach and 1cch ov,vr, if

a you would, come more of attachment tu o . Uhat I' . crying

0 to find out in particular, sir, 12 what the hocdinc Per

la Corrective Action purported, at least ac you underctcod

11 i t, to depict and in particular whether it related to

crocific action taken to dicpoce of particular !?CPc or12 .

.

13 audit findingc?

14 !:R . DnIX:n: "culdn't it be helpful to the

if vi:nosc and everybody c1cc aro,und the tabic to try to

16 chortcut thic and ach the uitroce if he hcd any1

I

17 undarccandinq of theco labnic keyond chut t:.u 13hc " :.

10 thenceives caid? I ...cugh c th e uitr.e cc tactif ica that hu

10 had no knowledge of uhat thece meant beyond reading the

20 words.

21 A Correction. I caid I didn't recall nou.

22 ::n. Dn!ntn "hat you kncv then you don' t

('23 recall today, what these meant to you six year ago or

24 whenever is. I j ust wonder whether i t's productive use,

l.uted Reporting Service 300f.afnyttre ILuldag 3m40 %thwtern lluy.So, Am 962 1176 sa,,, ;3

(Mms, %chiese Rt: n farmmesm lhlis. %chisan sola

-- _ _ _ _ _ _

O

eP

1 .of time to ask tac witnecc .to do anything other ther. . ead

2 words which we can all do. -

3 A Let no respond. In sonorel cuality Control terminology,

'. 4 when you attempt to identify the part corrective action it

5 ;onerally refers to that specific deficiency, ccm. :hing[

C vac cupposed to be white and it': blue, heu do you corrects

7 that, vercut the procesc corrective cetion which ic note

3 he..' did it occur, what unc the sytten breakdown thc.t ic

0 to the part being blue rather th:n uhite. In general

10 terns in Quality Contrcl cyctens that's uhat that r ea nii.

11 EY I:P.. GOOLD:

12 O I cec. Let me invite you to tche as much time lcohl nc

13 over attachment two to cce if it ref rechec your

.

14 recollection that at the time you lochec ct thi: e:::.i ii t ,

15 you underctood thoco conceptc to apply to the infernaticn.

10 set f or th und.c r the heading: Par: Corrective Acticn and,

17 Procc:: Cerrcctiv. Acticn?

18 A 1. gain in general, par t cor rcetive r etien here, they are

19 adcrecsing specifically the test recultc versus pr ecesc

20, corrective action addreccing how the system or the prococt,

21 needs to be changed to avoid c specific deficiency in tect t

22 or otherwise or recultc.

t'23 0 Let me show you a document, which I'll ack the reporter c |

4

24 mark as P:: CPC 530.-i

i

"#* 'E*' '" 'lafayette kida: 30840 % 'thu '" II"3-st, g 96?.1176 1e. OMDetm t, W higan a 226 femetm }{Jls. %htess MOI 8

_ _ _ _ _ . _ ___ _ _ _ .. , _ _ _ _ _ , . __ ,__

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,

t

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i . il;. (Depo. sition, Ex.hibic no. ~ CPC 53 0,,c . ,

; ... ., .

< ,

2~ Document'prcduced by Concumerc

3 Power with headings ITCR Description

C 4 And. supporting Details,.Part ,

'

-5 Corrective Action and Process,

6 Corrective Action uns marked for<

'

7 - identif ica ti on. ).

8 BY I:R. GCOLD:

9 0 Chis is a one page document produced by Concumerc Power,

10 and I'll represent this is Mr. IIorn's handuriting though

11 you'll have to take a lcok f or yourself. Let me ask you

12 to take a moment to go over it'and compare it to page U '

13 31911 f rom PX CPC 529, which is already bef ore you, sir.g-

14 !!R. JPMSEli: Compare it in respect te v' hat,

15 compare the documents in respect to uho wac uriting them?,

,

.

1G I:R. GOCLD: Uith respect to the contants of

17' the twa pagec..

18 A Yec.(.19 EY MR. GCOLD:

.

20- 0 Do you see the handwritten entries? There are four *

- 21 paragraphs on PX CPC 530 under the heading Part Corrective.

-22 Action? -

| C| 23- A Yes.- .

! 24 0 And do you see an n drawn through those four paragraphs?'

,

,

!

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Luzad Reportirsg Service y gg g0| [gayte Buildkg y ,_i ' Suite mo 962 1176:

^Suite 220

- Detrat. .\fichipu M26 Farmingte Hills, Sfichiga 48018.;..,~..',. . _ _ . - ' . . ---_.:--_-.__-,_:..__._.

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. . . . _ _ _ _ , _ _ _ _ . - _ .- ._ --- .__ . _ _ _ . _ . . -_ .

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|1. A.. , , Yes.

,

.

2 0 Have.you read the information there?

3 A Yes.

'f? 4 0 IInving read that information do you believe it should.haver

! '5 'been included in PX CPC 529 as it was subnitted to the

6 NRC?-,

7 I'R . DRIZEn: I object to the questicn. It's [,

0 . leading, thore's no f oundation laid, there's no indicction.

9 of when this docunent was prepared, whether it was

10 prepared bef ore or af ter 9% CPC 529, there's no indicaticn

11 for what pur;ose it was prepared, there's no f our,daticn

12 laid as to the truth of the handwritten matterc, se hou

13 can this witness possibly no whether something should have,.

14 been done without an adequate evidentiary f oundatien.-

,,

15 A Information is cert.ainly relevant to our investigaticn. !

16 EY !!R.-GOOLD:

17 Let ne direct your cttentien bach f or c r.cnent to pegg U^,

s

10 31911 cf PX CPC 529 under the heading Process corrective

19 Action. And we've already covered the statenents under

20 part one and part two that, "The corrective action to

21 preclude repetition for not clearing faili.19 tests need

22 net be addressed." Do you see that?

()23 A Yes.

24 a Those statements also appear on PX CPC 530, do they not?.

Luzod Reporting Serviceyyette Building 30640 Nonhues ern Hscy.

See sw 962 1176 Seite 2xDetroit, Michigan 48226 Farmington Hills, Michigan 48018

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_ _ _ - - - - - _

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,3. A, Verbatim.,-

_... ,,-

,,, . ,.,--

2L 0 Having looked atL the four paragraphs that vere written-'

3; . under the middle heading on' PX CPC 530 and then the ones

C'c '4 that .have handwriting' and the X drawn - through them, do you~

- 3' 'have any view as to whether the statements I j ust read you

61 that appeared under the heading Proceos Corrective Action.

7- are true?

8 A Yes.'

9 n Uhat view do you have, sir?

.10 A I believe they' re true.

|

11 0 I' m sor ry. Do you believe having looked at- the middle*

12 column of EH 'CPC 53 0 'that, "Corrective action to preclude

13 repeti tion for not. clearing f ailing tects need not be7

'

14 a dd t , sed" i c i t -- I'm trying to find out whether you.

15 viou the inf ormatien in- the two columnc ac consictent '..'ith ,

16 each other.'

.

17 A Prca 529 versuc 530?

18 0 The inf ormation in both -- let's f ocus on 53 0 -- the '

19 information under the heading Part Corrective Action ac

20 compared to the information under the heading Procers

21 Corrective Action, andinparticularthestatene.$t under

22 the heading Proccas Corrective Action that, "Corrective.

O23 action to preclude repetition f or not clearing failing

24 test need not be addressed"?..

t

e

Luzod Reporting Service 352.

Isfayette Building 30640 Northamtern Hwy.,

Suite sw. 962 1176 Suite 2wi Detroit, \fichigan 4226 Farmington Hills. .\fichigan 48018-

- . . , . _ , - . . . _ _ _ ._ :. - _ , . _ . _ , . _ , , _ _ - _ . _ , . _ . _ _ _ _ . _ - . _ . . _ . . _ _ . . _ . . _ , . _ - . , , _ _ . , .

!-.

e.

I'm not exact 3y(sure what| the question is at this point..

. _ Ll . . . A...

_2 0 - I'm trying to find out whether you vieu the stntement

3 . under,the heading Process Corrective Action'that,

t'4 "Corrective action ~to preclude repetition for not clearing'

5 f ailing tc:ts need not be addressed" is a ctatement that

5 is consistent uith the inf ormation that's set forth an6

"7 Zed out under -the heading Part Corrective Acticn in FZ-CPC

3 530?

9: A Mo.,

10 0 . If you had known or if you had been told that inforcaticn

11 as set f orth in the middle column of P" CPC 530 had been

12 deleted f ecr PX CPC 529 as it uns submitted to you, uhat

13 would you have done, if anything?y

14 Un, DRIHCn: Objection to the quection. It :-.

,

15 calls for cpeculation. There's no evidentiary foundation,

16 it's leading.

17 A '7 ell, had uo had that inf ormation when 52C was cubmi:ttd

| -

| 10 to us it vould have indicated clearly to us that in early

|'

19 1973 Consumers suspected a problem around the Diecel,

20 Generator Building area and other areas and that barings

( '

| 21 were anticipated being taken but in fact not taken.

22 BY "R. GOOLD:

i ()|~ 23 0 Hould such information have had any ef f ect on the

*|

24 conclusien that appeared in report 7S-20 with respect to..

.

3[3,,,.

Luzod Reporting Service y 3, y962.]]76 Sate 2 0Suite 6% . ^

Farmixton Hills. Michigan 48018.

Detrat, Michigan 48226_ _ , . - . _-_ .__.__.___._.___.,_m-_ _ _ . . , . _ _ _ . , _ _ , . . . . . ~ . . _ . . _ - . ,-

, .

.

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. l. .whether . the . repor ting.,cf;'the. Diesel Generator Building ,

2- problem uas tim' ly?e

3-.

MR. .DRIKER: .Again, I raise a~n obj ection.

( 4 The. question calls for speculation and it is leading.

5 A' Once again, had we knc;;n that they suspected of c soils

5 problem in early 197 8 we might have concluded otherwise.

7 PY UR. GCOLD:

-- B C Let me show you a document, uhich I'll ash the reporter to

9 mark as P" EEC 237.

10 (Deposition C::hibit "o. PX BCC 237,

11 Inter-of fice !?emorandum Prem n. I.

12 Castleberry to J. F..Newgen, da te d

13 January '13,197 8, Subj ect : Midland"

14 -Plant Units 1 & 2, Job 7220,,

.

15 Monconformance Reports, MCR-l C 0 4 ,.

13 was marked f or identificcticn.)

17 nY.Gn..C00LD: -

..

,. 18 0 Take a moment, if you like, to read it over, sir.

19 A Yec.

20 0 Okay. Did you have the inf ormation reflected on P" FCC

21 237 at the time you prepated report 70-207

22 A I don' t believe so.

O23 0 Let's go onto a dif f erent subj ect. Did you ever learn of

24 a soils problem at the borated water storage tanks on the<

.

.

. .

- f afayette Building Luzod Deporting Service 3 , 3,,5 4 ,,Suite rw 962 1176 Suite noIktnit. \lichigan 48226 Farmington flills. .\fichigan 48010

,1 site, Midland site.that is?,

2 A 'le s .

3 0 Uhen, approximately, if you recall, did you first learn of.

(4f 4 a problem in connection with those tanks?

5 A Some time af ter the MRC requested t;.:t additicnal borings

.

6 be taken in areas beyond the Diocel Generator "uilding.

7 0 And what in general terms did you learn? L.t's try to

O begin with the first informaticr :' ca n recall rccciving.

9 about the subject.

10 A Eorings indicated that there was inadequately' conve cted

11 material.

'i 2 O At that t'ime had the borcted water storage tanks 'ceen

13 completed?,

.

14 A Co. The only work that had been done i s in construction|i

15 of the ring beam that supports the tank.'

16 n And were the tanks subsequently completed?:

17 : ': a s .

Do you knou uhether the completicn of the tanks took place10 r

'

19 before or af ter any remedial action vith respect to soilc

20 problems at the tanks?'

21 A They completed the tanks bef ore they did anything

22 regarding fi:ing the soil or attempting to fi:: the soil.

~C23 0 And do you know what happened to the borated water storage

24 tanks, if anything, as a result of the soils problems?,

Luzod Reporting Service 39g,o g,,5,,,f,f, y,,_, ,, ug4962 1176 Saite zws,a, mo

sktroit, Michigan 48226 Fannigton Hills, .\fichigan 48018

; -

;.

.

.' . l. A. I recall;Lthat;ti ere was problems with settlement aroundl

2~ the valve pits and. cracking in the concrete rihg, ring*

3' -beam.

dCl 4 0 Uere the. tanks' cycr '-- vere the f oundations -ever replaced

'

5 to your knowledge?+

-G A- Not'that I recall.

7 0 Uhat wac the remedial work, if any, that was.done at the

3 borated water storage tanks?

9 A ?!ot much.

10 0 You've mentioned that one of the contributing causen in

11 your judgment to the soils problems at the. site was the

12 absence of a qualified soils engineer. Do you eccl 1 that.

,; 13 subj ect generally?,

14 A Yes. -

.

15 0- Did Consumers Pcuer make any commitment to have cuch an.

16 individual en site cubsequent to the commencenent of the

17. investigaticn rcscrding the Elecel Generctor zuildit.g?,

10 A Ye c .'*

19 0 - Uhat was the commitment, if any, in that regard?

20 A That they would continuously have a qualified geotechnical

'21 engineer on site to monitor the coils work.

22 0 And was that commitment f olicwed through on?.

''23 A Uell, if I recall correctly they provided some personnel

24 that they purported to be qualified geotechnical engineers.

.

.

Luzod Reporting Service 356yg 3,, _,,74,y,,,, g,;tgi,,

Suite MO 962 1176 Suite 2M,

- Detroit Michigan 48226 Farmington Hills, Michigan 48018

. . _ _ _ .. _ . _ . . _ _ _ . _ . . _. .

4

.

'l but. in c.t,he , course,.of; our routine inspections we viewed,

2 certain ~ of those people not to be fully capable of being 'a

3' qualified. geotechn! cal engineer. I recall the-results of

C 4 our inspections nre documented in subsec uent inspection

5 reports. ;

!

G 0: Yes, I'-11 see if I can dig those out. Let me chev you a-'

7 ~ document, which I'll ach the' reporter to mark as 9:' CPC

S 531,

9 (Cepocition E::hibit l'o. ?:: CPC 531,-

10 Eandwritten f our-page document

11 entitled Turnbull's 1-Totes, was

'

12 marked for identif'ica tien ). .

*13 BY I:n. GOOLD: '

14 0 For the record, I'll state that thic _ic a handuritten. :

15 four-page document which beginc with the cerial number in

16 the 1cwor right-hand corner P s0513778, and hac the,

i 17 handuritten heading Turnbull's 1:otec. ro you kno': c ::r . j| t.

18 Turnb.ull?

19 A I knew a !:r. Turnbull.,

20 0 Uho is IIr. Turnbull?

21 A He was f or some period of time the quality 1.ssurance|

22 supervisor er manager on site.

|C|

|- 23 0 By whom was he empicyed?.

24 A Consumers Power.,

|'

Luzod Reporting Service 39g,o g,,,gf,},}, 77,,.,

. Suite MO 962 1176 Suite 220'

- - _ _ _ _ . . _ lyrsit, Sfichigan #226l'armington Hills, 3fichigan 2018'

. _ . _ . , ,_ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _- . - . _ , , _ _ _ . , _ _ _ _ , , , , , _ , . _ , _ , ,,

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4

1. Q. n .And did you participate in an enit meeting with Mr..

,

,2 Turnbull on or about . January 9,1981?

-. 3 A Yoc.

I 4 0 Let me direct your . attention to the bottom ' half of page

5 one of'this document. About halfway down, under the

5 heading callagher there's some handwritten notations which

7 appear to state, "Drief ed borated water storage. tank crea.

8- This amplifies concern he had since" -- I can't make out,

? the nent word, then it continues -- "of coi]s problem,

10 sucpect material underlay yet work continued, illogical

11 coquence of events as was_ suspected by URC, same" -- then

12 the next bit I can' t read at least -- comething "Diesel.

13 Generator Building." Do you see that, sir?

14 A Yes.

15 0 Do you recall making statements in substance as indicated

16 there?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Can you enplain what you were saying at .the time,

19 reconstruct what you were saying at the tir e? |.

20 A Uell, myself and the unc was a little bit surprised to see

21~ that work was continuing as ucual on a structure that was

| 22 f ounded by the. same inadequate material that supportedC

23 other buildings, and I was of the opinion, as I was on the

24- Diccel Generator Building, that given the point or the.

Luzod Reporting Service 358Lafayette Raildung yo 3.,, ,, ySuite 630 962 1176 Suite 220Detrat, Alichigan 48226 Farmington Hills, ofichigan 18018

.

W

=

1 , status of. con.struction on the borated water storage tank,,,

.

that that being simply only a circular ring beam being2

3 constructed, why they would continue to build the building

C 4 without first fi::ing the problem beneath it when it uac

5 totally acceccibic fot complete remedial action. It was a,

G little bit illegical to r.e, at it in siill nou.I

7 0 I note this document, the e::it meeting ve' ve been talkinc

G about, unc Janua ry 1991. Doec that hel fi:: -- let me

9 strike that.

10 You've previously indica ted that you lef t

11 Region III about this time. Did you have any direct

12 involvement cubseq uer.t to this e::it meeting with retpect

13 to remedial measures for the borated water storage tank

14 area, if any?

15 A ro.

15 n Let me direct your attentien to page tuo of this docenent,!

17 as cell as page three, and tche a moment t o r :a C t: e:...

!1

'

13 A 'le c .I

19 % Did you have any concerns at this time, and that is

i 20 January 1981, recarding h,cu soil testing activitiec'.cre

21 being conducted?

22 !A Yec.

! C.| 23 p Mad you made an inspection of those activltiec?

24 A During this inspection we did.|

~

I

| 359| Luzod Reporting Service

Lafayette Buildine 30840 Northurstern llwy.Suite MC 962 11I6 Suite 220Detroit. Michigan 18226 Farmington flills, Michigan 48018

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. :1n-

Q; 17 hen; di,d rbat inspecti.on, take place?. .

.

2 A A f ew days bef ore January 9,1901.

3 0 , And.was the exit, meeting indicated here at least t'o have

C 4 taken place on January 9,1901, th . conclusion of your.

5- on-site rortion of that inspection?

6 A Yes.

'7 0 t7 hat was your . recction to finding problenc uith soils*~

.

8 testing procedurec ac late as this?

9 A l'e didn ' t think they' d ever learn he.1 to do the soils

10 right.

11 0 Did you communicate that to anyone at Consumers Fower?..

'

12 A Yes. -

'13 0 To-whom?-

,

14 A At the briafing.

15 o Do you recall who uns ,present?,

.

f t. Mot offhand. !!y inspection report would probably identify16

_7 those . people contacted and at the briefing,f

i 18 0 Do you recall any comments by anyone f rom Connumers Fcuer

19 on the subject?|

i .

20 A Uot specifically. I'

21 0 .Okay. In the course of your contacts with I'r. Horn, did

22 you have any occasion to observe his practices with regard

'

23 to record keeping concerning his activities?

24 A Yec..

hay,,,, g;;g;,, Luzad Reporting Service 39g,g g,,,,),],, g,,.0

Suite Sw 962.]]i6 Suite 220'

Detroit. Alichigan 48226 Farmington Hills, Afichigan 48018,

, ,_

'('' .

"- -

,

'1 ; 0 .Uhat' did'.you observe?' s; .

.)/ I

2 A Nell, in general' he wou prett'y meticulous in keepiniy notes[,'

3 and telephone legs _and diaries and records of

:k 4- convercations. He spent considerable-time documenting

. L5. everything that went- c.n. He was very meticulous.

6 0- Did.ycu perconally observe that?'

7 A Fure, routinely. .

1 0 Carlier in your deposition I believe I asked you uhat you

9 recalled regarding the precice date when you first learned

10 of the Administration ruilding problem and I'm not cure.

11 what your e>.act testimony ucs regarding'the date, but I do

12 recall that you menticned that you first learned of_the

13 situation from I:r. Tuv eson. Uhat did you do ne::t, did you-.,

14 make any contact with anyone f rom Consumers Pouer,

,

15 regarding that subj ect ?

i 15 A I don' t recall grecicely.

17 0 ro you recall whether you called ::r. !!cen to rc.que :,

10 further information on the cubject?

L 19 A Uell, Mr. Tuveson at that tire gave uc at leact onei

!

| 20 report, which was dated December 1977, on the

r

i 21 Administration Building and I believe at that point we did

22 conf ront Consumers with a request whether or not there'vaseU

23 any other document related tc that.

24- 1 Let me show you a document, which I'11 ask the reporter to,

3Luzod Reporting Service gg 3,,,gf y,,,, y

962 1176 Suite 220Suite MODetroit, Michigan 48226 Farmington Hith, Michigan 48018.

||..

-.

.f 7 f . .. mark as,PX CPC,53.2.l., .,

,

2: " (Deposition E::hibit lio. .PX CPC 532,

3' Handwritten Internal Correspondence,

{- 4 CPC, da ted J une 3 0, l'981', ' wa s -,

'S marked _ f or idcatificaticn.)

6~ DY !!P., GOOLD:

7 0 Can you identify whose handwriting'this is on the first

8 pace, sir? *

,

9 A It looks like !!r. Horn's. -

10 0 !! ave you seen' this document bef ore today?

11 A liev e r .

12 O Let me_ direct your attention to the portions of the,

13 document which begin at the bottom of page 90227273,.

,

14 botton paragraph, and then the top paragraph on the ne::t

'

15 page.'

.

16 Having looked at those por tions of this-

17 e::hibi t, does that refresh your recollectica as to uhen

13 you first learned of the administration Puilding

19 situation?'

t'

20 A Yes.

21 0 And can you be any more precise now as to uhen you first

22 learned of the Administration Duilding situation?

~(' 23 A Uell --'

24 IIR. DRIZER: I didn't hear the ancuer..

I

e

32Luzod Reporting Service ,,g,,,,f,, y,,,74,p,,, gagy, gog,oSuite MO 962 1176 Suite 220Detroit. .\fichigan 48226 Farmington Hdis, .\fichiga., 48018-

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r.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1 THE UITNESS : I didn't say.an anse r.

2 A Uell, I knew it was in the winter, having spent a lot of

3 time in Ann Arbor and Jackson, and I knew it uns in the

4 Bechtel Ann Arbor of fices when we first were inf orned of

- 5 it. "r. Gordon Tuveson at that time was the first one to

5 sort of let the cat out of the bag.

'7 U Y r 2. GOOLD:

3 0 lnd did you then contact Mr. Forn uith a rer;uerr fer

9 further informatien?

10 A Yeah, I recall that,

11 O And uould that have been on or about December 21, 1979?

- 12 A It appears that way.

13 0 Let ne direct your attentien to pages 902272?~ through

14 90227200 and let ce c:: plain uhy. You' ve alre ady

15 testified regarding the period of time over which you ucrc

10 attempting to secure reports on the qualificaticn of|

17 compacticn Oc;uipment and I' c like to ':ncu if af nr you'; ;:

10 had a chance to review those pages whether your

19 recollection is ref reshed to any e:: tent on the dates i

20 involved during which that rcquest war outstanding?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Having looked this over can you be anymore precise as to

('23 the period of time covered by when you first r eq ue st e d

24 such information and when it was provided to you?.

.

363Luzad Reporting Service 30%O Northtasten llwy.lxfayette Bu;ldingSuite MO 962.I176 . ,uite 220'

Detroit, \fichigan 48226 Farmington flills. .\fichigan 48018*

..

_ - _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ - _

.

~

|A.1 ,'.Uell, it appears in. December of; '78 through June of 1980

2 we were continually trying to secure that document'.

3 0 Uhat I'm also .trying to determine is whether the dates

p ,

' (...' 4 .a indicated on' this document are . consistent with your own '

5 recollection as to the time period involved. I don' t vant

G 'you to j ust testify based on what the document says.

7 A lio. - I recall these. .

3 o Okay. Do you recall that you vere called as a uitnece to

9 appear in the soils hearings in ?tidland in connect' ion uith

10 the liidland Proj ect?

,

11 A Yes.,

~

12 O And do you recall having any occacion during the course of ;

13 your testicony to describe the degree of Quality Centrol e,

,

.

i 14 or Quality supervision that you believe wac appropriate

15 f or soils and f oundaticn ucrk? .i-

;,

16 A Ye c. :

17 C And what is your vieu in that regard? j t. ,.

13 A Should be 100 percent.I

19 Q- Uhat do you mean by 100 percent and why?

fA Uhat I mean by a hundred percent is j ust what it me.ns,20

21 that there should be continuous monitoring supervision dueI

'

22 t'o the significance of the f oundation f or the entire;

,.-| Q/

23 plant.

t'

24 C Uhat is the significance. of the f oundation f or the entire..

||,

Luzod Reporting Service y 3,, 3[4 y,

S mte M O 962 1176 Suite 25 !

Detroit, Michiga., 48226 Farminton Hdis. .\fichigan 48018- -._.-_n~._,_-,-. . _ _ _ . - , ~ . . - - . . - . _ . _ _ _ . . _ _ . - , _ .-_.- - - ~---... -.- -,

1 plant?

2 A. It's ' critical to the design and operation of any f acility,

3 including a nuclear power plant, and as a result deservec.

/ 4 e::trete ca re, attention and supervision by qualified

5 people.

G O And based on your e::perience uith the Iidland Proj ect vec

7 that degree of care given to the work?

3 A 1:c .

Do you reen11 whether you had occacion during your9 0 -

10 testimony in the soils hearings to e:: press any vieu cr.

11 whether it was prudent f or Consumers Power to have

12 procec,ded with the surcharge f or the Diccol Denerator

13 Euilding?,

15 A Yec. ...

15 C, And what uac your view cs you c::precsed it?

15 A They should not have proceeded.

,

17 . Do you recall, dio you na!:e a n, cratanentc curin, ;;;r.

''

I'

13 tectimony in the coils hearingc as to uhother the .~idlaad

.

19 Plant vac "crippled"?

20 A I recall raking that statement..

21 r Uhat did you mean by crippled?

22 A Uell, basically the foundation of the entire f acility was, . .'"

23 inadequate, would not cupport it during the design bases

24 and as a result I labeled it ac crippled.,

.

300Luzod Reporting Servicelafayette Buildune 3%IO Northurstern Huy.

962 1176 Suite 220Suite 630Detroit. .\fichigan 48226 Farmington Hills, .\fichigan 48018

... as; q

~ ,

4

Did yo,u, have. ~any , view as' to whether the Ilidland Plant was.1 n-

~'

2. safe.'for1 operation given the soils problems?_

3 A~ 'Yes.-

'.I 4 Q Uhat was that view?

15 ti h It was not saf e.

G 0 Did you have any view as to whether remedial measures vere

7 f easib1e f or the - plant?

8 A Yes.

9 0 Nhat was that view?,

10 A I had serious doubt that they vould be able to pull off

11 such an effort kncving they were not able to literclly

12- move dirt f rom 'one place on the si-te to another place on

13 ~ the site and compact it to th e righ t 'de n si ty , whi ch 'i s a - -

'

I14 f airly simple. operation but deserves a lot. of attention.

s

15 and care in ma'. ting sure it's done correctly the first

-16 | time..

17 o Do you rece.11 uhether you had occasien durinc your ,

1 .

'

18 | testimony in the I:idland soils hearings to c:: prest any

19 view as to whether there was any precedent at other

20 nuclear plants f or a construction problem of the magnitude*

! -

21- of the soils problems at I!idland?

22 A Yes.,

| 4'',~23 0 Uhat was your view?'

.

24 A It was unprecedented in comparison to any other problem at,

.

.

Luzod Reporting Service 39g,g 3,,,,,},],, ,7,y.6'

,,, y

Suite MO 962 1176 Suite 2:0*

Detroit. Arichigan 2.26 Farmington flills, Michigan 48018t. '

i

.

1 any othar nuclear _ power plant under construction.,..

2 0 Bear with me just a moment.

3 MR. GOOLD: I have no further quections.

# - 4 HR. DRIKER: Uhy dcn' t we take five minutes.

5 (A brief recess uns helci durinc

G the proceedingc.)

7 E"AMIt!ATIOl!

3 C 7 I:.' . CRI"CR:

) n :'r. Gallagher do, you understand who an? I and Ellan"

10 Peering are attorneys f or Consumers Pcwor Conpany in thic

11 matter and I'm going to be asking you a series of

12 questicns about many of the came subj ect matters that Mr.

13 Gooln has' questicned you about both on July 13 th,.

14 yesterdry and this morning. I uant to ask you a little

15 bit about yourself at the outset. Coula give me your dctc

16 of birth, please?

17 A August 1G, 1952.

13 0 Your precent position at the linC is as a ,conicr policy

1S analynt in the Of fice of Policy Evaluatien?i

20 A That's correct.

'21 l And I understand you' re 1 caving the !?RC shortly; is that

22 correct?rL

23 A That's correct..

24 0 Uhen is your last of ficial day on the payroll?.

.

307Luzod Reporting Servicelxfayette Budding 30940 Nonhurstern fluy.

~ 962.I176 Sude 220Suite MODetroit, \fwhigan 48226 farmington flills, .\fichigan 48018

,

_. _ _.---_-- _ __

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.,

, ,. ,1, A , August.24th.>

,-e

2 0 'And when is your-.lbst unofficial ucrh day? Is today the.

last day; that 'you' re actually working at the of fice, if.3- *

T' 4 you will, or putting in time?

5 A ::o,. August 24 th :of 1904.

G 0 Ohay. Can you:descri:e for me what you have done as a

7 cenior policy -analyst ?-,

,

G: I:n JE!!SE!!: You mean in terms of the,

9 general types?

10 DY I:n EnII:ER:-

11 0- General. Nhac kind of activities -aie cabraced richin that

12 * assignment?.

'13- A- Uell, we do licensing, immediate offectivenesc reviews fer,

14 the Commiccion. ,. ;.

15 0 Uhat is an immediate ef f ectivenesa review?

16 A The Licensing Board or appeal board acken decicienc on ;

17 licencing actions at which time the cecnircion taher firl -

10 review. and as the Con.31 scion icvel of fice we prcvide that

19 service 'to them. .In addition, we advice and perform

20 analysis f or the Commission on a variety of both internal

21 an e::ternal activities of the IIRC.:

22 0 To whom do you presently report?

.\'23 A F.r. Jack Zerby is the Director of the of fice of Policy

24 Evaluation.-|

'.

luzod Reporting Service 3601

lafayette Buila..tng 30640 Northustern lluy. ,

Suite fuo 962.I176'

Suite 220,,

Detroit Alichigan 48226 Farminetm flills, Stichigan 48018, ,--- . .. . - . - . - . - .. - . _ . _ . - - . - _. - - . . _ , _ . _ - . - - . ,

. .. .._ _ _ _ - - _ _ ___ __ _-____-_ _-. . _ _ _ _ _ - _ ._ _ - _ , _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - - . ____- _ _ -_ _ _ _ __-_

'7

c.,

t .

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~

11 0' . IIow many.. senior . policy . analysts :ro there? .,

.

,.

2 A The total stafffof.the office is 10, professional-staff'

3 appro::imately 12.

'I' 4 0 Are they all entitled senior policy analysts?

5 A: -I - don' t know.

5 0' !!cu many are senior policy anclysts?

7- A I really don' t know how many are conior policy : analysts or

3 otherwise. For the most part, the. majority of then are.

9, 0 tihat government grace level ic that?,

10 7. Fifteen.

'll 0 GS 15. is that what it's still celled?

- 12 A I believe so..

'13 0 Uhen y'cu jolaed the Imc what governmen't grade icyc1 did~

,

. .

14 you come in at?,

15 A I believe it was a GS 13.

e

15 0 So you were what, about 25 years old when you joincf the !

17 2'nC?; , ,

. ,

,

1-

'

18 A Thereabouts, therecbouts, yeah.'

i;

19 0 !! ave you been involved in your role as senior policy

' 20 analyst in the preparation of any reports by the,

.

21 Commission to Congress? :i.

'

| 22 A Yes. '

L{*L 23 0 Ubich ones?

24 A Quality Assurance report to Congress.,

-.

. .

et

Luzod h . porting Service yo 3,),, y9

,,'

| Suite Mo >62 1176 Suite 220-

( IMroit, Michigan 48226 Farmington Hah, Michigan 48018

.

1, 0 Uhen was that transmitted to Congress?

2 A Uithin the past three months.

3 0 'Uas that the report that was triggered by the Ford

(. 4 laendment?

5 T. That's correct.

6 0 "hat role did you play in that?

7 A Uell, initially when I was in,the Office of Inspection and

# Enforcecent we actually laid some of the ground ' brh f or

0 the ccope of that ef f ort and octually devolepod the

10 nuclity Acsurance, sc-called Duality I,ccur ance initiativas

11 within the URC. After leaving the Office of Increcticn

.

12 and Onforcocent and* going to OPE, we at OPE, cyccl_ and

13 one other person, monit'ored that activity and did come,

14 analysis regarCing that.

15 n Did you participate in any of the craf ting of thatrrrortf

16 A Mo.

'

:' ave ycu recd it?17 ^.

12 it ''e n ..

19 n Does it reflect the vieus of the Conniccien cc a whole?

20 It is a Commiscion reporr? !

21 A Mot as this point in time. The Ccanission has cubmitted

| 22 it to Congress as a staff report. They have not had, . -

t#23 adequate time to get into a lot of the details at this

1 ,

| 94 point in time. !

|

Luzod Reporting Service 370Lafayette Building 30910 \.orthurstern llwy.Suite MO 962.I176 Suite 220

'

Detroit. \fichigan 48226 Farmungton Hil!s, Michigan 48018

+ . . . ,,

,

% 'O

F .

'

1. . 4. , Does it r.opresent then the, view of the Mac staf f ? ',

-

''

.2 A Yec.,

3 0 Uhat other kind of things have you 'done as a- senior policy

'f5 4 analyst besides those that you already described?'

.

'

5 A Uith' specific' reference to what?

6- 0 Juet anything else.

7' A Appro):imately a year and a' couple of months there.

3 n You've acted in a etaf f caracity to the Commiccion en,

S thece licencing mattttr?

I 10 A That's cor rect.

11 Q And you've also I think generalized-in a vay you did cone

12. ctaf f work f or the Commission?,

.

'

'3 A That's correct...,

|r ''14 0 Anything else that stande out in your mind?|

' ..I

; 15. A Ue did a number cf revious of co-called 2.206 petitienc.

16 0 Mhat are those?

{ 17 A I'otienc ' f r.cm inte rvener s to reque st Connicaion act.ico Oc,

! 1G- do one thing or anothe.r en variouc proj ects.

t

| .- 19 0 Anything elce you can think of? [

I, .

A I'm sure there are. I j ust don't recall ac thic point.i 20!

'21 Q In your undergraduate studies at Villanova did you take

:

22 any courses in soils engineering? I may not be ucing the

( c'f' 23 right precise term. I'm talking about geotechnical|

! 24 matters, coils, coils placement, compaction, that| *

I,

|

Luzod Reporting Seriice 3],1; ,, 3.,,, g,

Ssite hw 962 1176 Siige x

[._ Detroet. Michigan 48226 Farmington Hills, Michigan 48018

.

,

1 generaliced area..

2 A Yec.

3 0 Ecu cany coursec did you take?

C 4 7. Prohnbly tuo or three.

5 0 Do you rccall whnt they were?

6 7. Coctly f undenentalc, pr inci pl e c, practicec of coilc

7 nechanicc, laboratory testing, fcundation design.

R 0 Here these standard courcec for all civil enginocra?

9 A That's correct.

10 C Did you hear of Cr. .ciph Peck during your undergreduatt"

11 training?

12 A I don' t recall if I heard of hin then or subcequent to.

13 graduating ac a profeccional.,

14 C "hat had you heard of Dr. Peck before coning to the "'.C?

.

i15 A ' 'el l , he s a fsirly eminent geotechnical engineer',

1G profector at the Univercity of Illincic, author of e.

i

I17 number cf gectcchnical cngincaring bocP .

13 O Have you over heard of any of hic beohn?'

10 A Ye s..

20 0 Eave you ever used then as te::tbochs in any of yaer,

21 educa ti on ?

22 A I don' t recall. Certainly as references.

i"''23 0 You have used them as r.ef erences. Do you recall

24 deceribing Dr. Peck in your testimony bef ore the Licensing.

i,

Luzod Reporting Service 372isfayette Buildm.e 30810 A.orthurstern fluy.,

Suite hw 962 1176 Suar 220Iktrmt \fichigan M?26 Farmington flills. .\fichigan 48018

-,

h Board as the bect in the world f or Concunerc to turn to in1.

2 connection with the remedial soils ef f ort at I:idland?y

3 A I don' t recall if I referred to hir as the bect but

f 4 certainly as one Of the f oremost geotechnical engineers.

5 0 Uhen you took your I: asters in structural sngineering did

C you take any courses again in scile engineering, in the(

'

7 br oa de st cense?'

G A' Met so specificclly in coils engineering, ccre ir the

D structural engineering, which include C f oundation ac cisn.

10 0 rut nothing crecific in geotechnical or coils natterr?

11 A rot coils matters.

12 O All your academic training in scile is f rca undergraduateJ

13 school?

14 ':R . GOOLD: I think that' c a'

Il

15 micchara cter ic e tion. |

15 IA l.nd prof eccienc1 c::perience .

27 z'.' :'" . Dr. ::: ? :

la 0 I'm talking about academic, in tne claccroom ac cell ac

19 beyond the claccroom as far ac further readings. Ubat

20 f urther readings have you had?

21 .A In the course of prof ecsional practice one reade journcic

i 22 and gootechnical engineering journals. |

( ~^,

0 Can you name sene?23 :

24 7. Specifically the Ancrican Society of Self Engineer s,

" 7 '''

Luzod Reporting Service 30840.\.orthuntern Huy.| lxfayeter Building962 1176 Swtr 2M'

Sa'e AM .

Detroit, Alichigan 18226 Farmington, Hith, Siwhigan 48018

- ._ . _ .

| 7 2. . ';' .

' l. . pubH eS.os,a geotechnical. engineering journal monthly and,

2, I routinely'koop abreact of interesting articles.

3 0. -Did you personally subscribe to that? ,

(''' 4 A Ye c.

5 0 Any*-hing else that.you'.ve read that you could ~ consider

G- over the_ years to have increased your knowledge on soile

7 catterc? .

G A Uhile at college I did work in a colla tenting labora tory.

9 0 Did you read certain tc::tbocho or crticles or conocrces?

10 A Juct implementing coil mechanics tecting both in the i

11 field and in the laboratory.,

t

. 12 0 Uhat yearn were they? ]-

13 A Probably 1972, '73..

14 0 Is'Lhn soile 'encincering field a static field or ic it a

15 field uhore thoro cre changes in the, knowledge and ;| ,

1*

,

16 techniques? -

'.

| 17 a .undamentr.1 principles have been f airly well-f 0unded f c:I

'

'

18 1cng periods of tice. !.

i

19 0 Are there new tects and techniques being developed? ;

20 A I' m cure there are. ;

21 O Have you written any books or articles of any kind dealing LIL

22 Vith engineering or soils?|

p. 1

ag

23 A Mo, I haven' t. |>

24 0 Have you lectured anyplace on those subjects?.,

*t

I

Luzod Reporting Sertice 374>

Lafayette Building - 30640 Nonhurstern l{wy. ;

* Suite Mo 962 1176 Suite 220Iktroit. \fichigan 48226 Farmington Hills. .\fichiaan 48018 ,

,

- . . , , , _ , - . . . - , - - . . , , - , . - - . . .- -

.

1 A . Do, I haven' t.

;

2 0 Can you tell me what preparation you made f or your

3 deposition? And when I use the word deposition, I' m

e4 talking about the first session we had a ccuple of veoks*

5 ago as well as y'oterday and today.

G A rene.

7 0 You reviewed no documents?

G A "one.*

O n Discucced your devociticn with no one i n a c'.v a n ce ?

10 T, Of fice of General Counsel.

11 O Anyone else?.

12 h Mo..

13 'O t.' hat did you diccucc with the Of fice of General Counccl?'

14 A proceduro and alsc j ust giving them the benefit of tha

15 background in the cace.,

16 0 "ith uhen at the of fice of General Councol cid you di: cur.n

17 your forthcening depocition?

12 A Primarily eio parties, Mr. Dan rerkcuite and Mr. Pichard

19 Black.

|DI take it you saw no inpropriety in talking uith counsel10

21 in cavance of giving testimony, did you?

22 A Mo.

~

23 0 Did you creak to anyone in Region III about your testimony

24 in advance of giving it?,

375Luzod Reporting ServiceLafortte BuiMing 30940 %rthurern Huy.Suiar hw 962.]]76 Sua 2MDetrat. \fic'higan 48226 Farmington Hells. .\fi:higan 18018.

-

,_ - _ _ _ _ _ _

1 A- Ho. ,

2 0 And you did not review' cven yout ain personal files with

3 . respect to I;idland?

I 4 A Mo.

5 n Have you cpoken to anyone abcu* your testimony af ter you

5 gave it? Let's ncu fccuc in firct on the cennion a couple

7~ of we'oks ago. Af ter you gave your testinony dic you cpean.

E to anybody about it?

9 A 1.bo ut the rieposition?

10 0 "es.

11 A Ye s, I did.

'

12 n Uith when did you speah?

13 A General Counsel and alco to the investigator.in negion

14 III, tir. Follach, Gene rollach, who is the nogien III

15 invectigator, and the Acting Director cf thr Office of

15 Invectiga r. ion in headq ua r ter c. In the abrance of ti.e,

17 Director, i t vo; .:r . Jim ' lor ru, V- o- r- c- c . unc 7ctin:."

18 Director for the Of fice of Invectigatica in :~.r. ren "cyes'

19 ,abconce.

21 0 Of fice of Invectigadicn in P.ogien III?

21 A That'0 correct. I' m corry. I tclhed to tuo different

22 peopic. Office of Investigation negica III, Gene rollach,

Vi23 I believe he': the Director of their field of fice, and Jim~

24 Vorso, who was Acting Director of headquarters' Office of.

.

Luzad Reporting Sersice 315lsfayette Busiding 3%40 Yorthuntern fluy.Suar hw 962 1)?6 Sue gxDetroa. \fuchigan 48226 Farmington lluth. Stichigan 13018

,

'1 Investigation,

2 0 What did you talk with them about?

3 A Simply regarding come of the documente that were becught

f 4 to my attention that had not previously been brouaht to my

5 attenticn.

6 o Did you provide them with copiec?

7 A Te did not have copies of them. I did not,i

0 o Did you cuggoot to them they take any acticn uith respect l

C to any of thoce documentc?

10 A I cuggested they look at the documents and rceiew

11 the deposition.

12 0 Have you given them a copy of your depositirn?.

13 A I have not received a copy of it..

14 " Did you cpeak to any reporterc?.

.

1$ T. "o, I have not.

16 6 I'c rcpcrter r contccted you?

17 7 "c. -

.

1C r Have you read the tranceript cf your first depociticn?.

10 Is I haven' t received it as of ytt.

20 n Did you at any time read the depocition which ycu gave in

21 preparation f or your tectimony scoe yearc aco in the coils

22 hearing, the testimony !!r. Goold questioned you about?

('23 A I don' t recall if I did or not.

24 n Did you ever recd the tectimony itself ? You'll recall "ou.

3'TLuzad Reporting Service30810 A.orthuntern HuylAfnytto Budda.g

Suiar MO 962 1176 Sui:e ago

Iktroit. \fichigan 48226 Farmmaton Hdis...\fichigan 2018

g - - - - - - - - - - - - - . _,

.

|1 testitiad once in a depocition and then once at the'

y

2 hearing itself, There were two separate transcriptc

3 prepared. Have you ever read either of those beo?.

( 4 A I don't believe I had. Since I was there I didn' t need tc

5 re- read it.

6 n "ould you agree that the evente uhich you are tesrifyine

's about having taken place come as icng ago ac ceven years

n ago were f recher in your nind when vou yavr: your

C dopositicn in 1900 and tectified at !'idland in 19C1 t h a :'

10 they are right nou?

11 A Zhich eventc?

,12 O The events that 'you' re tectifying about.

13 i*n. COOLD: Obj ecti on, ever-broed. I thirk.

14 it's clear that the uitnecc ,can' t handle c quection thni.

15 calls f or comething covering ac cweeping cn a cc ac that.

15 I think it uould be helpf ul if ue broke it doun into|

17 :pcci2ic parta. |

13 C'1 ::n CRI:'*R:

19 0 Generally, vould you agree that your recall' of events. thc:

20 too!: place in 1977 through the time you lef t Region III tc<.

come to Uaci..ngton was better three or f our yearc ago tha4[I21

.

22 it is today?

(23 A Certain events are very, very clear as being cignificant

24 and other are lesc, as being minor in nature..

-I,

.

Lutod Reporting Service 375Lafayette Bmidute 3 Moo krthurstern Huy.Suite MO 962.]]?6 Swge ggoIktroit. \fichitan #226 Fannineton Hills. Michigan 2018

,_- _ _ _ _

1 0 Uhen you. prepared f or your tectimony or your deposition,

^

2 some years ago, did you review documents?.

3 A In preparation for the deposition years ago?

'4 0, Yes.

5 A I don' t believe I did.

!' hon you prepared f or your tectimony bef ore the LicencincG n,

7 roard did you review documents?

3 A Ver.

9 0 :!cu long a time did yci' c, pond rovicuing the documente in

10 preparation f or your tc stimony?

11 A I don' t recall what length of time in developing the

s12 tactimony,

13 Uhere did th t testimony take place, uhcre vac thc:^.

14 hearing? -

,

15 7. The toctimony incelf ?

15 ^ Yec.

17 7-. In ::iCland, !'i ch i ga n.,

.

1S q A public place?

19 ? In the courthouce or police ctation, if I renenber.

20 0 Uac there an audiet..e in attendance while you to:tified?.

21 A Small one.

22 O Uas the room open to the public?i

(-

23 A Yec.i

.

24 A Uere there reporterc there?,

i'

I

379'

Luzod Reporting Service 3,4g y,g ,,,,,, y,,_,,, g;g962 1176 Suur 2.%

I Suar mo .

| Detroit. Alichigan 48226 Farmmrton Hiih Stichigan 48018|

.

'

R

1 A Yes.'

.

2 0 Por hou long were you'on the uitnecc stand?

3 A Probably obout three dayc.

4 g tias your tectireny reported in the noucpaper?

4 A Cn occasion.

Let' c go boch to your enroer at Cbe cco. I believo you6 o

7 testified you vere at Ebasco f rcn appro::ir.*ately Dc cenber

0 1973 to 1977; ic that correct?

O A Frcr P.ay of 197 3 to reconber cf 1977.

10 0 Pay of 197 3 to Decenber of 1977, and then you lef t and

11 went to the MRC; fs that correct?

12 A Region III office in Glen Ellyn, Illinoic. -

'

13 O In your direct testinony you caid you were a design-

14 engineer on various nuclear ?cuar g. nte. Co ul t y.cu tall.

15 ne on uhat plants you vero a declgn enginecr?1

|

15 A The Sharon !!arric. I

Charen ':arric :'uclear re . c r riant. "h::: 1: t '. . - ': , ci r'17- ^

13 1 Ucrth Carclina.

10 0 "ho was the owner of that plant?

20 A Carolina Pouer a Light.

21 C Uho was the constructor?

22 A Ebacco was going to .bc tne constructor.

C'23 0 Uas the plant built?

24 A It is being constructed at thic point..

.

' azod Reporting Service 330Is)h)ene Buildme 3mto %.rthurstern fluy.Suite MO 962 1176 Suur 220Detrmt, \fichigan 48226 Farmington {{ ills, \fichigan 48018

.

,

1 0, Uhrr you say Ebasco was going to be the constructor, vas

2 it ultimately the constructor?I

3 A Yec.

4 0 You were working on come --

5 A Pr^1icinary decignc.

5 0 For uhat port of the plant?

7 A Au::iliary Duildinc, reactor cuilding, nurber of other

C structuroc.

9 0 I' hon you were ucching on the Chr.ron Dr ris plant he.1 rery

10 peopl e re,dorted to you?

11 A !!cne .

12 0 "o uhon did you report? -

13 A Cecign supervisor.

14 Q L%t other plante did you vork on?

15 A Foho::hica :1uclear Pcuer Flant.

16- " "here 13 that 1ccetrd?e

17 ?. J apa n. I

10 Q Uho vac the owner?

19' A "nvho 01ectric Pcuer Conpany.

20 o "ho was the constructor?

21 A Sane.

22 -Q Ebasco?

("i23 A !!o. GetsCo, General Electric.

24 C "as Ebasco a subcontractor?.

.

30lLuzod Reporting Service' 30810 Northurstern Hwy.Lafayette Butidmg

Suite MO 962 1176 Suue 220

Detroit. \fichigan 48226 Farmington Hills. Alichigan M18

-m -

.

,

1 A Design.and -- c' ctgn contractor.

2-

O Did you go to Jnpan to work on it?

3 A Co, I never did,

f 4 0 : hat did you do, what part of the plant did you decign?

5 A A variety of .tructural elements, circulati 6 water

5 cy c t er. ,

7 0 And was your title design engineer?

0 A Yec.

9 o I!cu rany peoplc reported to you in that job?

10 A Pone.

11 0 "hat other nuclear power plants did you work on?

12 A Tokai nuclear Pc9er Plant..

13 0 Uac the Pohashima plant built?

14 ? Ye c.,

15 o The no::t one is Tchni?.

16 T. T- o- h - a- i .

17 C "herc is chat loca:ed?,

13 7. Japan..

19 0 "ho w.ic the cu.ner?

20 A J a pa n 'lectric ?cuer Company.,

21 C 'Jac who . ras the t.cnstructor ?

22 A I believo it vac General Clectric.,

q -i

23, 0 You vere vorhing f or Ebasco as a design . subcontractor?''

24 A Ye s.

.

302Luzod Reporting Servicef.afaye"* Building 30840 Northurstern lluy.

962 1176 Suur 2:0Swee &Detroh, \fkhigan 4C26 Farmington flills. \fichigan 4801R

-.

.

1 0 Uhat part .of .the plant. did y:'c design?.

2 A I rec:11 the circulating watet systen on that one as well,

3 other structural elements.

( 4 0 Bef ore you worked f or Ebasco had you had any e:<perien:2 in

5 designing nuclear power pl n:c?

G A Derigning nuclear po'<ter plantn?

'7 0 Ye c . ,

'

1 7. ::c, I had not.

9 0 This unc your first job out of grcductc cchool?

10 7 That's cor rect.

11 0 So you ucre kind of learning on the job, being trained L/

*

12 a nore sonier decign enginecr? -

13 A Th a t ''s co r'r o c t .

14 0 ?ou cany people reported to you on the Tokai job?

15 A I:ono , j,,

15 c- "hat other reactors did you ucrk on while ycu ucchc6 ' :

;17 Ob.;co? -

1.

10 A St. Lucic I!uclear Pcuer F3 ant.

19 0 L- u-c- i- e ?

20 A That's correct.

21 0 "here is that located?

22 A In Florida.

('23 0 Uhat was your recponsibility on that plant?

24 3 I was decign engineer.,

333'

Luzod Reporting Serviceajayene kida,g 30810 knhuestem Huy.

Suar MO 962 1176 Suae 2:0.'

()etroa. VichJan 482:6 Farmintem Hals. Michwa 48018

.

1 0 Ubat did you design?

2 A I don' t recc11 e::actly.

3 0 Uho was the owner of that plant?

'I /. A Florida Pouer and Light.

5 0 Uho was the constructor?

G A 3basco.

7' r "oth the designer and the constructor?.

.

3 1, That's cor r ect.

9 0 *!cu nany people report.ed to you on th:: job?

10 t. l'one,

11 0 Uhat other plants did you work on?

12 A "aterford Three nuclear Pcuer Plant.'

.

13 0 ''ho was the cuner of that one?

14 7. Louisiana Pouer and Light. *

,,

15 0 And who vac the constructcr?,

16 7. "b:cco,

17 0 "cth de:ign :.nd buil:? |\ <

13 7. U t- h a .

19 0 Is St. Lucie opercting?

20 7. Ye c.

21 0 Tekai is operating?

22 A ''o c ..

'23 0 !!ow about Uaterford?

24 7. They are nearing licensing..

Luzod Reporting Service 334lafayette Buddins 3n840 krthurstern llwy.Suar Mo 962.I176 Suste 220Detrat. \fichigan 482:6 Farminston lidh. \fwhigan 18018

.

,

1 C !! ave they received an operating permit yet?

2 A I don' t believe co. -

3 0 You were working on Uaterf ord obviously bef ore 1977.

4 A That's correct.

5 0 Mac the plant under conctruction at tha: tine?

3 A Yor.

7 0 !!cu many people reported to you on the 1.'aterford job?

?. A On the "aterf ord j ob I was en-cite f or the cost prrt, at

9 the site, as a pr oj ect field engineer, civil proj ect field

10 engineer.

1.1 0 Uac that the lact job you h:d at Ebacco?

12 A Yec.

13 0 Uas that the one you spent the moct time on out of all.

14 these you lirted?.

15 A l'o . That uac about the lact two years en "aterf ord..

15 n Did you cay you worked on "a:.erf or?. the lact ye:r? I!

17 A Lae: t.c yearc, :,o and a half yecrr,

10 0 of your time a Ebacco?

19 A That's cor rect.

20 0, "hen you werc work'ing :: "aterf ord was it entirely (cen at

21 the cite in Louisiana?

22 A For the most part, yes.

(23 9 You were proj ect field engineer?

,24 A Civil resident decisn encineer. '

t

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3CALuzod Reporting Service -

' 30840 Nonhuntern liwy.Lafayette Building962 1176 Suite 220Suite MO

( Detrut, \fichigan 48226* Farmington Hills, .\fichigan 48018

.

1 0 Civil resident design engineer. Uhat were your actual

2 _ r esponsibilities?

3 A Basically to interf ace with the construction people in

4 day-to-day decign activities, accisting in the

3 interpretatien of drawings, specificatienc, ev al ua ti ng

5 conctruction reporte, reporting bach to the hed:ccrters

7 cecign of fice in terma of changes and re' olvingc

'

) interferencec.9

0 0 "ou rany people reportcd to you in that job?

1C A Ucne.

11 0 Di'l you have any contact with the URC on the "aterf erd

12 job?

13 A Come, yes.,

.

Could you describe what, generally, whet kinds of -14 e

, 15 contactc?,

15 T. If the DEC in tne course of their audits, conductin<; th ir

'7 inc;2ctionc, had cny quectient that relatd tc i:1 -.

la activities in the civil area thrcuch their licensee,

10 Louisiana Power and Light, they would contact ce.

20 C "as thic j ob at Uaterf erd the first time you had ar.y-

21 direct contact uith the I:RC?

22 A I:o. I had had come contact with them in the design of fice

b.'-23 in 1:ew York in terms of responding to licensing quentienc

24 and licensing meetingc..

.

Lu:od Reporting Service 3CGLafhyette Buildine 3m40 k.rthestern fluy.Suite MO 962 1176 Suite 220

* [k trout. ' Vich;ean. 48226 Farminata Hills. Vichigan 4801R,

-_ _- _ _ __ _

.

1 0, On come of the other plants you had been working on?,

2 A Yes.

3 G Has the 17aterford plant been built according to the

I" 4 schedule, con.etruction schedule which e::isted at the time

5 you worked on it?

5 7. I don' t knov.

7 0, Did that plant have any conctruction probicac u.hile you

3 worked on it?

O 7, Yec.

10 n 17ha t kinde of problecc?

11 A Had come concre".c problenc.

Could you be a little more cpecific?12 n -

13 A They had a problem with the concreto foun6aticn mat in,

l4 terno cf como cracking and cene leaking of water thrcuch-

,

15 the mat..

16 6 '7acn' t the '7aterford plant built on scr.e hind of cuarp-f

17 land?'

.

13 ?. I wouldn' t call it cu anp. I guers the entire ctatc c2

19 Louisiana is pretty wet but it's adjacent to the

7. 0 I'isciccippi niver.

21 0 And come problems arcse with the f oundationc of the plant?:

22 A In terns of?n

\J23 0 Cracking, settlement.

24 A Concrete cracking.

Luzod Reporting Service 3,o \., 3 1 y,_,._7g,,,, m;gg4 , , ,

Suur mo 962 117u Sate WWDetrou, .\fichigan 48226 Farmington Hills. \fichigan 48018

|

ll O ''a % .Did that delay construction of the plant?...

2 A I don' t knou that it did.

3 0 Ucre you involved in any way in any aspect of the plant.

4 that uns subj ect to this cracking?.

5 A 7e s.

5 0 Uhat wac your f unctien?

7 A Our f unction-uns to basically revicu the adequacy f rca an

0 engineering and design standpoint, the fi:: that th->

C conctructor perf ormed on the mat.

10 0 ::ind of a remedial ef f or t?

11 A Yec.

12 C And were you the person uithin 2besco to' decidc on the'

,

13 type of fi:: or remedial effert?

'

14 A "o.* 1

15 n "ho decided th,at? I

16 A It vac the Pr oj ect 2ncinect at decicn headquartcrc.

17 Did you participar2 in ernceiving the renefisi effer-?^

10 A I ansicted certainly in providinc input, inf err.a tic n.

10 0 How about in developing the concept?,

20 A Certainly participated, yc c.'

21 0 Uith when did you participate,. people you talked with in

22 developing the remedial effert?:''

23 A rell, at that time the civil Proj ect "ngineer wac a ::r.

24 Liu, L-i-u, and hic and ny supervisor, ?:r. "ern, at tna:

Luzod Reportsny Se r t,ic e 333isfayette huldsne 30840 h.orthustern llwy.S< ate M O 962 1176 Suite 2wDetrat, \fichigan 48226 Farmuteson flills, .\fichigan 48018-

1 t ino , U- c- r- m

2- 0 Anyone else?

3 A There were people f rca Louisiana Pcuer and Light that we

'4 had contcet with in deciding what to d:.

5 0 '"hat wac th : period of clapcod tine during which you ucre

G involved in the renedial effort?

'7 A I don' t recall.

3 n "as it dayc or uaehs ce months or yearc?

9 A It uas a number of nonths off and on..

10 0 "ac t concrote craching discovered af ter the building

11 van erected?

12 A Partially.

13 0 "hat building was it?,

14 A tell, they ucce all under construction parti 11y.' -

15 0 Under uhat structurec or buildingc vac the cr chcd

15 concrete lecceed?I!

17 , If I renenber ccrecctly, it .71c i n th e 7 u::il ia ry r uil f i .m_ . |'

.

13 0 Juct in the Au::lliary Euilding?

19 A That's predoninently where uc had the rouork, wherc the,

20 va'ter was leaking through the nat, thrcugh the nat..

21 0 How f ar along was the Au::iliary Euilding at the time the

22 cracking was discovered?-

is23 A Fairly early on.

.

24 0 Can you give ne an estincte?,

.

309Luzad Reporting Serviceggay,,,, gijg;,, 30am %nhurstem Ilwy.

962 1176 Suite 2MSate hw .

Mroit. \fichigan 48226 Farmington fisils. \fichigan 18018

1 A Twenty percent.,

2 'O ?aenty percent'cf the building was done?

3 A That' c correct.

'I 4 0 Pho diccovered the cracking?

5 A Quclity Control..

G 0 That's who reported to the linC?

7 .A. I believe it wac in the f orm of a 50.55 0 constructimi --

3 significant construction deficiency.

9 0 Uas consideration given to tearing dcun the 7,u::iliary

10 nuilding and starting over cgcin?

11 <1 I don' t knou.

12 O Did you, of your cwn kncwledge, make a recomic.endcti'on to

13 tear it down and start over again?

.

14 ?. "o , I didn't..

15 0 Nave you nov listed all the nucicar pcuer plants that you.

16 have uorked on in your career?I.

17 ? I'c . -

-.

10 0 I'n not talking about uith the I'nc, I' m talking about *ith,

19 Eba cco.

20 A "ith my career with Obacco, yes.

21 Q IIave you worked on nuclear power plants, any other 'pl ant u

22 other than as an 11RC employee?

~~23 A tany while an 1:nc employee.

.

24 0 Other than as an I:RC coplcyee..

.

.

Luzod Reporting Service 390lafayette Buildinx 3M40 k.rthwstern Hwy.Suite tJo 962 1II6 Suur 220Detroa. \fichigan 182:6 Farmington Hills. .\fichigan #1018

.

-

1 A Hot that I can recall at this point.

2 0 Uhen you were at Unterford did you become fcniliar with

3 nonconformance reports?.

'

4 A Yes.

5 0 Did you ever fill them out?

5 7, Dispositienc, a part of then, yec, the engineering

7 ~ evaluation part.

O : lou uculd you deccribe what a nonconfornance report ia,^

0 not in a te ch nicci tcrn but in a lay ter:-?

10 7. Simply a Coviation frcn a drnuing, specificct'icn er an

11 inctruction or requirement.

12 0 Let ce a5h it this ucy: Could it enrcil a paper

13 deficiency ac well ac a construction deficiency?

14 ty It could b.e a procedure deficiency versus an actual

15 harduare deficiency, yec.

2cth kinds can be reported on a nonconformanc: rcrcr ?16 ^

t

17 t'h a t ' r cor r e ct .

12 n And the licentee is oblicated to file the :'CP vif.. the

.

10 UnC; is that correct?

20 A Uo.'

21 .C Can you tell me what happens with a nonconf ornance report?

22 A It's bacically generally an internal control, Quality

F.23 Control nochanien for the identification and re:olution of''

24 deviations fron drauings, cpecifications, inctructient and

.

'017

Luzod Reporting Service 3m40 k.rthurstern lluy-

Lafapur Bwiding962 1176 Swte 22Suite MO

Detroit, Alichigan 482:n Farmneta Hdis Alichigan 48018

-.

4,,, S. - ,, ,

,

't

'l~

, ,, 'the like. but not required to be reported to the !?RC, each |

2 and every~nonconformance report, only when they becono of. -

-3 the-magnitude as the regulations define _it. A significant

C 4 construction deficiency then does need to be reported in.

5 the f orm of a co-called 50.55 C repor t part of th-

6- regulations.

.7' 0- -Is a lic'encoe obligated to make the NCRs available to'the,

3 URC on request?

9 A On request, yec. They are a quality document and t'PC does ;,

10 a lot of quality control ~ cnd Quality Assuranco documente.,

11 Q Tell to what kind of powers the MRC has to look at cn |

12 applicant's filec and documents, not with recpccu to:.

13 !:idland but across the board. Uhat can an UnC inspectort

14 do, f or e:: ample, if he vants to see plana or ., ,

15 specifications or any. hind of paperwork belonging to the

16 applicant and relating to the plcnt? -

They can pretty nuch rcguect cny documente relating to thc17 A

13 plant that relate to saf ety. *f

19 O And is that by regulation or statute?P

'

20 A I believe so.'

21 0 Uhat can the MRC or its boards or officials do by uay cf >

22 shutting down conctruction, if they want to, during the

~cs t

23 course of construction of a nuclect pl ant , what powers do j

24 they have?,

*.

!-

.

:Luod Reporting Service .QL2,,, y,y,Saar hw 962 1176 S, age gx ;

* Mt, \fichigan 48226 Farmington Hith, Michigan 48018 i,

''

. .- - -_- _--

1 A Hell, the URC.doec. have the authority to issue

2 con'atruction permitt, operating licences ac ucll as

3 suspend, modify or revoke those as they see fit.~

{ 4 0 nave there been cacos where the PrC has simply issued an

5 order cucpending construction pending the resolutico of

6 come work?

7- A Yes. ,

8 .c Ucu fast can the PRC operate if it wants to overct:. und:r

9 all delibercte creed? Let me ach it thic vay: "ac it

1C acted in a matter of dayc to chut down constructicn?

11 A ? ot construction, not in a matter of days. I have not

12 ccen that.

13 0 Operations? - -

,

14 A Operations of the plant,. they have actr:d f airly .cuif tly..

15 0 "hat is the f actest you c::perienced the P.'.C chuttine dcun

16 conctruction of e plant?

17 ? In torac of what, time?1

12 O "ech.. If the UnC decidec they don't like una ' n coine. on

19 in a plant's construction, have you ever ceen them act in

20 a matter of days or weekc to iscue an order shutting down

21 construction?

22 A In the construction crea I have not seen it ac quickly cs

La23 days or weeks. It's generally a 1cnger period of tir.e Oc

24 ucc the cace at Midland. In the early seventic c vith the

.

363Luzod Reporting Service *

3m40 \.orthurstern llwy.lafayette BuildingSuae mo 962 1176 Suite zwDetmt, '.fichigan 482:6 Farmancton Hills, Michigan 48018

__

1 .Cadueld and reenf orcing probica. .

.2 0 Uho has authority within the UnC's inctituticnal f ranework

3 to cuspend a conctruction permit?

/ 4 A The Director of the Of fice of Nuclear Peactor Regulatica

5 and/or the Director of the Office of Increction and

6 Onforcement.

7 0 Cither of those people can do it on their cwn?

? I believe co.^

9 0 Did you ever have cuthority to shut Ccun conctruction at

1C I'idland?

11 A 3o.

12 0 Uhen you vorked f or Ebacco did you ever e::perience thu i'EC.

13 iccuing a 50.54 request f or inf ormation with respect to.

14 any of the plants you uorked on?

15 A I don' t believe co.

15 o Did any of those plant: file a 50.55 disclosure to ti''

17 '.!nC ?

10 A 50.55 E, cignificant construction, yec.

1D 0 "hich one?

20 A *:a terf ord.

21 0 How many?

22 A I don' t recall how aany. I know of only the one I vac

' (~ ' 23 involved with.

24 0 You lef t Ebacco and went to the "nC. Did you go right to.

Luzod Reporting Service . 3 9ALafaytte Buddine 3n810 Northurstern HuySwtr nw 962 1176 Suar :xIktrat. \fichitan 492:6 Farmeem Hdis, \fichigan 49018

.

M

1 Fegion III?

~2 A Yo c. -

3 0 And what vac your first job there?

'4 A A0 a reactor inspector in the construction branch.

5 0 '20 uhon did you report?

G ?. I.t that time it vac the cection chief, Leo Speccard, cnd

7 the branch chief Bob Heischman.

3 0 Did you have scac traininc in beini. a rc:ctor incIcctor,

9 that is, did the IT.C provide you uith ccne trcining?

10 7. Ucc.

11 Q Uc',i long was the traininc?

12 A It var con'tinuous through my dayr at Region III. There.

13 ucre a variety of training courrec, continucu,s incpecticn

14 techniouac and concrete practicos and volcinc practiceu

15 and quality Accurance principles and tracticer, a t c e t e r r..

13 It was a continuour training progren.

17 A Dut I take it there eac no progrce right :t the cutret

la vhich you uent thrcugh befcre goin: out en the job cnd

19 inspecting reactorc?

20 A There was a plan crogram, a continuous plan progr:m the:, ,

21 reactor inspectors basically were required to take at

22 variouc pointc as inspector.

'C. .

23 p '? hen you first becano a reactor ' inspector, did peopicI i

24 report to you?

|

'

l

i1 395'

: Luzod Repo, ting Servicei Lapyrtte Buildine A,40 %.rthuntern Huy.

Suv MO 962 1176 Suste :DDetmt, \fichieu 482:6 Farmsnetm Hills, Afschitu 440I8

c,

1 A Mo, I repo-*ad to the section chief as supervicor.

2 0 And for how long were you reactor inspector?

3 A Por the entire period I ucc at Region III.

[' 4 C At any of that whole interval did you have people

5 reporting *o you?

G A Uo.

7 & Did you repor t to other people?

1 7. That's correct. !'oro ao a specialist in+ cortsin arcE.

9 0 You reported to a coction chief, rcported to a brcnch

10 chief?

11 A The director.

12 O Of the region? -

* 13 A That's cor rect.

14 0 Ucw nony rcretor incroctors wer: there in P.egic." III 'then

15 you began appro::imatel,y?,

15 7. "oth concerection and operatienc, rough quoac, 30

17 r 2nd at thc time you icft h c ,, r.c ny ' rer. ti. ::: ?.

13 11 ::aybc 00 or 00.

10 0 You vent j- as a CS 13?

.

20 A I believe tnat's correct.

21 0 Can you tell te what the first incpection job use that you

22 had with the UnC?(.'s 23 A 'leah.

24 0 Uhich one?.

Luzod Reporting Sersier 396Lafayrtte Liding 3m40 \.orthurstern HuySuste hw 962 1176 Suar 23Detroit. \fiehizan AC:6 Farmsneson Hdis. \1schigan 48018'

e

1 A Callouay plant.

2 0 Uhere is that, si r ?

3 A In Miscouri, I*iccoura as they say.

4 0 !!cu cany plants in total, nuclear pcuor plants in total'

5 did you ucrh on uhile vuu vere at Region III?

G A About 15 to 20.

7 0 Can you name the plants you vorhed on, ac nany ac,

0 poccible?

9 A Dyron, Draiducod.

1C n I'm going to ack you ac yeu nano taan if you c:n :711 re

11 uho the A ucc on the plant, who vac building the plant.

12 A The AE, that's not the persen uho is gener:lly bullfing it

13 but the decisner.

14 0 The AE-conctructor. .

..

15 A They could be tuo different peop12

10 n "culd you lict the ncner of the plante you ucrkc-c on and

17 tell re who the constructor thorc uaa 'nd if thr r u t.

-

.

13 ceparate architect engineer you can rcccll tell n t ?. '. : a:

19 uell. You started out with Cyron I believe.

20 A That' s cor r ect. Sargerit-Lundy ucc the AC, Ceaccaver.lth

21 Edison was the conrtructor. Craiduced the cace; Laballe,

i22 same; Marble 11111, Sargent-Lundy vac the AC and Public-

23 Service of Indiana vac constructor uith variouc

24 subcontractors; Perry, Gilbert ucc the AE and the

39'Luzod Reporting Service 306W h.orthurstem Huy-lafayette Buddune962.]]?6 Suite mSwge rn

[ktms. \fichieu 48226 Farmvneton Hdis \fschieu 48018

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1 constructor cacapes me now, an outfit mut of

2 California; Zimmice, Sargent and Lundy, cane constructor

3 as at Perry, I can' t remember the name offhand; Clinton,

f 4 Sctsent and Lundy wac the AE and Baldwin and Associate::

5 was the cont.t ructor ; Calleway, Dech t:1 and the S::UT23,

C Standard !!uclear Power Plant S"ctemc, S '?- U- T- r- 0, vac the

7 constructor f or the most par t. -

O e Ecchtel usc thv AC?

0- 7. Yeah, and constructor through nhic organication callaf

10 S!'UPPS : "olf Creek, came. At cpercting cites --

11 C Let's concentrate on the constructicn citec.

12 A Eyron, Draidwood, Lacalle, I'a r bi c :'111. , Ferry, Cimnler,

13 Clinton, Ca11cuay and "cif Crceh, seems te me there uw.

;.

14 others..

15 C If ycu think of them --,

.

1G A It's not an all-inclusivo lict at this reint.

17 0 "hat unc ycur hnce.:leego of .rech tcl's rc.;.ute tic.- 2 cr de ci ;

10 constructicn of nuclear pc". ear plante uhen you c:ar:c d with

19 the l'nC?.

20 A Ead a very good reputaticn.

21 0 Itas anybody built more nuclear power plants in the United

22 States than Bechtel?..

(' '. 23 A I think they have the most, I think.

24 0 Doec the PRC have either f ormally er inf ormally an|

Lu:od Reperting Service 390la(nrne Buddme 3M40 knhurstem Hwy.Sulte 630 962.I176 Sage :o,

il trat, \1khitan 482.% Farmington Hdis. AfWhigan 48018,

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,- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - . - - - - -

1 evaluation of the competency and reputation of conpaniec

2 in the nuclear reactor field, conctruction companiet?

3 A ro.'

'. 4 0 rut you had heard that nachtel was well regarded?

5 3 ":11, they were accepted as conctructor and dccicner en a

6 number of plantc thrcughout the country.

7 0 Does the licensee, doet the utility have to get the

0 approval of the Unc f or thc construction?

9 3 I don' t believe they get approval cf the cpecific

10 constructor, note they get the apptcval of hcu th ny' re

11 going to handle the entire proj ect f rca a recj ect

12 hanagement standpoint, includine cervicec cuch ac.

13 conctruction and decign and cuppliers and natorial

1 41 vendore. Fot any one of the contrictorc cet spe cif ic

15 approval in the forn of a licence frcn the M"C, :. o r : cf r'

13 pa cka ge ..

17 o rt in n nracticr1 mnco if th e :"'C u n r c not h ar " vi:u

10 the celection of r. conctructor, they could nahc tha:

10 unhappinocc f elt by the licencee, could they not?

20 7. I guccc co. -

21 C Uhen you ctarted doing your reactor inspection, :nd I' n

22 limiting this to constructien, una there a cet plan of..

''23 attack, that ic, did you have a checklist either formal er

24 inf ornal where you would icok at certain thingc like the

360Luzad Reporting Service -

3n840 %.rthuruern Hwy.Lapyrter BuildmgSuize sw 962 1176 sure rx

. %t, \fichigan 48:26 Farmmaton HJL1, \fichigan 48018,

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.

._

9

1 PSAR or if it had been filed the FSAn or the plans or the

2 specs, or would you start with conctructicn, or uc'ul d y o u - - ,

3 I' m trying to get a conce of how you approach a probleu ore

4 how you approach an inspection, not a problen, r".cc doi

5 you do?

5 A 'Mll, ve prepare firct by becoming f amiliar with the

7 construction documentc, which include the prolininary

0 cafcty analycis report, which generally loyc out the

9 criteria uhich the UnC approved the conctruction of tha

10 blant. De pursue those documents to becono farilier with

11 connitmente and recuirenents that werc laid out in those

12 documents. De did and continue te have intrecticn

13 guidelinec as cuch, at lenct thince that an increctcc.

14 chould gencr:lly 1coh at in the conduct of their cutic,, in

1C the uhole variety cf activitiec related to conc:ruc:ica,

15 civil, nochanicni, electricci, instrumentction and centrol

17 and cquir:.cnt, c.ce:cra. 'M t':.cn c.ac.n r c lly bocen -

,

1C familiar when we get to the site with the :ctual

19 specifications that have been developed f rcn the licercinqk

20 docunents for implementing construction and/or opcrntion, j

21 0 Such as?

22 A Dr aw ings, specifications, work procedures, Ouclityt.' 23 Assurance documente, specifically cuality Control tecting

24 documents anu Quality Control auditing documentc.

400Luzad Reporti,ng Servicelafayrtte lhildme 30840 %huntem Huy.Swir hm 962 ll?6 Suar X U

iktrwt. \lichiru SC.9) Forminston Ihlis, \fichieu $8018

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1 Q As an URC inspector, did you have the authority to requect

2 the documents you j ust deccribed when you visited a

3 plant's conctruction site? -

.

I. 4 A Yes.

5 0 And if the documentt vere maintained eleeuhere, that i n,

5 if the conctructor or the cuner was in c dif ferent

7 locatien, I take it you had the authority to recuort that

3 the docurants be produced wherever they veru Iccat3d?

That'c correct.9 A -

10 ^ Of the plante you doccribed that you had scre conr..:cticn

11 uith in the conctruction ctage, I unnt to ncne them again

~

12 and I,uich you to tel1 =c which of thcm hcve' been gr.:ntad

13 . operating licencec to, again to your knowledge. Dyron?

lb A They ucre j ust Genied an operating licence..

15 9 Iraiduccd?,

16 A Otill under construction.9

17 o Lcac11c?

10 A 20th units operating licence.

.

10 0 :'arble 1:111?

20 .t canceled..

21 0 ?ctry?

22 A Under licensing revicu..

U23 0 timmler?

24 A Canecicd..

.

Luzod Reporting Service m 3.g' C1'

g,g, gag , ,

Sage hw 962 1176 Sate ?.%Desmt. \fickisan 48:26 Farminstm Hdh, \fichigan 48018

___

1 0 Clinton?,

..

2 ?. Under licensing revieu.

3 o Calleuay ?

/~ 4 7. Calloway I believo hc: gotten there licence. I ncy bc

3 nietaken on that, but I seen to recall they bcVe gotten

? their licence.

7 4 Are they oporcting?

3 7, :'o , their f uc1 lead licence.

O n And Ucif Crech?.

10 A Under construction. Let no j uct cd6 tc th7c lict. 01 e t c

11 | it a lot of operating plant that I made incpectienc ac

1that '.iere perforning construction'rola:cd activitic: as12 4

13 part of nodifica ticns to those plante, many of then.,

14 0 I understand. !? hen you verc at bacco ucre you involvcd,

15 in the decign or placement of engincering fill et any of

15 che pl:nt citec?.

17|A

Ther+ v7c a geotechnical enginear c.r-ci:- cnd ':e

10 collaborated. There uns a cresc dicci line int:rfacei

19 |betueen the foundatien engineering work cnd the ctructurel

| engineering uork.*

20

|0.

''ou' re talking nou about t.'aterf ord?21; .

! l

1~

" A Specificclly i.'aterf ord.'

(''

23 0 Hou about on the other projects; verc you involved in the,

| 24 design and placenont of engineering fill ac the other-

r.

Luzod Reporting Service AO:30%0 %.rthurnern liwy.lapyette Buddme

.%:e hM 962 Elib Suar 23)*

Detroit. \lkkYan 4C6 Farmkaton lidis, \fkkitas 48018,

,

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

.

1 projecto you vorked f or?. . .

2 A I vac involved in the development of specificatienc that.

3 related to backfill, plant f oundatione and the lihe.

f' 4 0 Here thoce pretty redimentary specificationc?

5 A "ell, they were the bacie c'ocicn and conttruction

6 specificationc that voulc be uced for the impicmentcticn

7 of the work on-site.

O O ru: you didn' t cupervice the pl:atent on- si te ?

D L That's cor rect.

10 And on "aterford did you cupervice the placement cf fill?^

11 A Cccasionally. In the abcence of the gootechnical cncin: cr

12 there were como brief occacionc uhere I uculd, in

13 conj unction 'ulth him or while he vac looking at cther'

14 l o ca ti e n t,..

'

15 0 Other than that? -

15 A l' o . I vac not the recponcible party of the geo:echnic..1

17 entineering uork there.

11 O Uhen ycu ongaged in an'increction for the :"1C uculc you,

10 as a nurnal part of the contencement of your incycetica

20 activity a a proj ect that ucc neu to you, vou1(. you lcoh

21 at the nonconformance reports that had becn prepartd?

22 A As an URC incroctor?

23 0 Yo c,.

24 A Yec, a sample..

.

F

403Luzod Reporting Service yo y,w,, yLapyrtte Buildd962 1176 Suite 220Sua, wo

Dernus, %chigan 48226 Farminston Udh %chuss 59018*

._ - -. _. ._. --_

1 0 Uas that part of tho procedure that you described?

2 A Ye c.

3 0 That the 11nc sent an incpector out to look at the !*Cns?-

.

4 l. Yoc.

5 0 Are theco publiched procedurec?

G A They arc internal for conducting inspecticn activitiec.t

7 0 !c it in a booklet?~

3 It'c in a three foot lenc cet of tuifelinec that are'..

9 available to c11 type of incrector s cc thcy vill have the

10 benefit of pa s t increctors' o*:r.erience ond cho referonc c.

11 that might triggor j uct a good nudit, good thorough audit.

*

12 O Pocucing on :*idland Phen you firrt became involvd in the

13 I:idland !?ucicar Plant, did you review any !*Cnc bef crc your

14 first visit ,to the plunt cite?.

15 A "ever. I'y firct visit to the cite vac trister f upon

10 iscuance of the 50.55 0 report by Concuner P c'.'.. r i n

17 Ausunt of 1.*77, I' m corry, in T.ucuat cf IC70,

13 0 You had never been to I:idland before Auguct of if7??

10 A That's correct.

20 0 And you had no cubstantive involvement with it r. : :na l'nC

21 prior to that time?i

22 A That's correct.

('' .'

23 0 Low much ti=c did you cpend in August of 1970 on I:idland?

24 A Actually only in the of fice, ta% int a lcoh at une 50.55 7,

Lunod Reporting Service 4043mso \.orthuruern fluylafyrtte kidine

Suar Mo 962 iii6 Suar 220 >

Detrott, \fichigan +92.% Farmington lidis Afschigan A8ola

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ -

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1 report an6 planning to prepare for a follev-up inspection '

.

2 in September,,

3 0 1:ou nuch time did you spend in the office, a ucek, tu o

'. 4 uceko?'

5 A Couple of uccha.

5 o Isbout half the nonth of August vac tchen up in prcp rinc;7

7 A I con' t renenber pecifically, couple of veehs prnre. ring,,

1 talhing with the recident incpector, uho ct that t ir. e v a r,

,0 Pr. Pon Cooh, and ge t ting cene Declinincry ba chc r cer.d 2:

10 to uhat he kneu of the soils uoth.

:

11 o '? hat else did you read about :'idland becidet the 50.55 "

'

12 report?.

13 A Just preliminary preparation in the forn c' rcvicuing ther

1A prolininary naf ety analycis report MC any othet document

15 reistive to the f cundatien. |

15 o Do you renenber specifically uhat other cccunente ucr-

17 r ei r'i c.n to tha f ound tica? :

.

19 A "hatever the TEl!. night have tcf or :ncad in ttrr.c of oth';r

19 documents we night have had in our offic2.1

20 0 1:cs.' bi c is the FSt.n?.

.

21 A It's about 12 volunes or so, t

22 0 To read a PSAP. vould take many days, uculd it not?-

N'23 A one generally doesn't read the FSle. They' 11 f ocus in on -

{24 the anecific acrect that ic of in':croct. In thi: care,.

'

| 1

>

"O'..

Lutod Reporting Servier 30840 %.nkwtern Huykfyrtte SaldagSuite h30 962 1176 k oe 220 '

Devat, \tichigan ts::s Tammetoe Hdis. Whiuan 48018- -

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'4 , chapter ,two .and chapter three -deal senera11y.uithJ...

'~ '' ' 2' -f oundation and- structural requiremente, - which might be one

-3- to. two volumes at moct.

'tI 4 Q~ And how long would it take to .rcad and understand

5 -something jtike that f or somebody with your tr.ining?

6 A- Uot too leng.

^7' C Couple offdays? .

'

3- A Couple of dayc, a week at the noct.t9 O to I understand your testimony to be that the whole

10 investicative ef f ort at Midland in which you verc- involved

11 was generated by Consumers Power sending a report' celled aL

12 50.55 E report to the UnC?

13 A That' s cor r ect. - The preliminary incpaction to f ol] m! up

14 and 't'o get some general background as to uhat the 50.55 2

15- report meant and briefing. The purpoca basically use to,

1G brief regional management as to uhere do we so f ren hare..

17 O Cut the trigger nechanica -- -,

13 A Uac the 50.55 R.

19 Q. "hat was not something that had been requested by the UnC

; 20 of Consu.Ters?

21 A It is something that is required of Concumers via the

22 regulation of -- 10 CPR 50.55, subparagraph C, req ui re s

'

23 th?m, through the regulations, to notify us of any

24 significant or potentially significant construction

l'!

GLuod Reporting Sern: ice 39g,g 3,,,k,),],n gwy,Lafayate BuildingSuier hw 962 1176 Suite noDetrat, \fichigan 48226 _ Farmmaton Hills Michigaa 480l8

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_____ _ ___ -__- . _ _

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11 '. deficiency..,

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2 0 And that's- what they -did?-

3. A _.Tha t ' s cor r ect .

14 O' How many buildings or structures 'at !=:idland have had an -

15 accelerated settlement problem? Let me bach up_for.a

G mement. |

7. All structures built on soils settle tc_come

0, e:: tent, do they not?

0 A Depends on uhat type of coilc.

10 0 At ::idland, did the design of I:idland contenplate that

11' there vould be some settlement of all the ctructurec?

12 A Yec. -

13' O So settlement in and of itself is not a flaw ir decien or,

14 construction, is it? !

j ..

15 A That s correct..

I\

15 0 And the hay inquiry is uhether there is more settlument ;i

17- than hhs b.een allcued for in the design, icn't tha: to?

18 A 1: ore settlement than might be expected for the design or

19 the differential in settlement, uhich is perhaps more

| 20 ifapor ta nt .

21 Q Uhat does differential in settlement mean?

22 A The dif f erence between tuo points in a common structure.

23 0 Could it be called an uneven settlement in lay terms?

| |

24 A That's one way of saying it.,

' '

A07Luzod Reporting Ser'vice ,3 ,, y .,Lafaynte kildkgSuite MO 962 1176 Suite 220

|. D troit. Michigan 48226 Farmington Hdis, Michigan 48018

, .

! - p .,

#

. 1 G. How .;many, structurec at Midland'had settlement problems,... .

2. that is ~ either had differential settlement or cettled more

3 than the planc contemplated?

T 4 A. :!iould you 1ike me to -name them?~

-

5 0 Yes.

G A As I now know?

~7- O' Yo s . ' - '

n I tiell, of cource, the f amous Diecel Generator Duilding,

9 - A&ninistration Puilding as we now know, borcted Vater

10 storcge tanks, f eed wate r valve pi ts, the' electrical6

.11 penetration areas of the Auxiliary Building, the control

12 huilding, which is somewhat integral wi,th the Au::iliary'

13 Building, the circulating water or service water intchen

'14 structure, diecel generator f uel oil tanks, condencate

15 storage tanks I believe had some cettlement cc u611.,

16 0 Uhen you say some settlement, I' m f ccusing now on

'17 differential settlement or cccclerctedd cattlenunt, act

18 ' sertlement per se but a problam cottlement.,

19 A I believe the transf orner pads had it as uell and plant

20 area, p,iping and that that was imbedded in the fill. It

~21 doesn' t leave much other than the reactor building and

22 Radwaste Building as not having it, and the Turbine

\3-23- Building, whic'h in my understanding is founded

24 predominantly on concrete.,

.

Luzod Reporting Se,a: ice 39g,g 3,,,k,;1,f,n ,7,7_Dlxfayette BuildingSuite hw 962 1176 Suite zwDetroit. Afichigan,48226 Farmington flills. Afichigan 48018

I .

1 0 Let's go. back nou to August of 1970 when you got the

2 assignment to pursue the 50.55 S report and familiarized

3 yourself with it, and I tche it you journeyed to "idland.

4 Ii that the ne:<t stcp?

5 A Yes.

to you remenber who the firct person at the job site was6 n

'

7 that you contacted to pursue your investigatien?,

'

3 J1 I reclly r:on' t, not the first time.

Can you tell to cyro :imately how cany dayc ycu crent it9 r

10 "idland during your whole inves-icative effer: frec luguct

11 of 1978 through the spring of 1979? I' m tryinc to cot an

12 order of magnitude, I'r. Gallagher.

I13 A Physically en-site or . involved in the inv ectigative

bla effort?|,0 Let',s take it both uaye. "cu many dry e ver c ycu a ct uc.11y j15 1

|

| in ::idland and then hcu many dayc uere you on th pr.:j ect15

|17

|in totality?'

13 's Both would be a total guecc at this point. The i n spe c t i c."

! i

19 | documents do catalogue, I Lelieve, on- ui te tire, at ledct j'

8

I |20 | cpecifically on-cite time, but I ueulc cay probably '5 to i

21 85 percent of my time between August and at Icact I? r ch

22 and possibly longer than :: arch of 3 979.'

\' '/ p

23 0 August of 1978 through I: arch of 1979?

24 1. "eah.

'' 0 6'

Luzod Reporting Service -

30840 A.orthuntern HwyLaf:yette ButidingSuite &30 962.I176 suae 220.

iktroit. \fichigan 48226 Farminate Hd:s. Alichigan 480l8 \t

>+

.

p 1 0 And ca you tell me whether proportionately more time vac

2 spent in :lidland or vac more timo spent either in "idland,

3 Jackson er Ann Arbor or was more time crent bach in Glen'

4 Cllyn, Illinoic?' *

t- 5 A It uc: a split betueen all foar of thoce, :lidland,

5 Jaghcon, Anr. Arbor, Regicn III hccdquarters for mcctingc.

7 . !'n. DnI::En: Off the record.

G (A brief diccuccion vac helc

0 off the record.)

I 10

11 (Deposition 3::hibi t :T o n . D 270,

12 Boring Log, I:idland I?uclear

13 Plant, DCD; D 230, Coring Log,

14 !:id'.and liuclear Flant, Au:: ilia ry'

,

i

15 Eldg. , ucc mcrked. f or identif icc ticn. )

15

17 , D " ' ~2. CE I:'U. :n !I

i

13 n !!r , Gallagher, I'm going to hand you repositicn 2::hibit D

10 270 and 230, which are documentc, they' re boringc ices

20 related to the ::idland I?uclear Plant, and I' m going to cch

21 if you ccn identify those documentc?

22 A They' re entitled Dech tel Boring Logc'. One ic for the

('~

23 Diesel Generacor Building and one is f or the -- it's hard

24 to read. It looks like Auniliary Duilding. I' m not sure.,

!

!

Lu:od Reporting Service A1Clafayette Huilding 30840 Northuestern fluy.Suite MO 962 1176 Suite 2:miktrat. \fichigan 48226 Farmington l' ills. .\fichigan 48018

1_

~

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,.~ .

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, 1; . 'I- can' t read the . titlf f on : that one.; , .g

,

2- 0- Have you.ever'seen'those two boring logs before? .'

3' A, Out .of : conte::t LI would not be able to make that j udgment.

4- 0- I represent to you that those tuo boring |logt Jcome f ren yo: Ir'

5' personal files at the ERC, . which were produced both to Dow

G and..ourec1vec under a Freedom of Inf ormation; 7.ct. requent.

7 I take it f rom uhat you' re saying the ancuer _ you j uct

0 gave, that thesa-horing logs, of which there cre 'many in*

9 this ccce, arc difficult to identify in the abcence of

1C come f r me of- ref crence, some other documentc or

11 -transmittal letters, is that correct, at least cs f ar as

12 you' re concerned tcany?,

13 A Yec.

~ 14~ Do you remember getting boring legs during yourO. ,

*

15 invectigation of the *idland Puclear Plent?

16 7. Ye s.

17 Q- Do you remember con Morn providing boring logc to ycu i n! >

10 January of 197 97 | I:

19. A Yes.

20 n Did you look at the boring logs when you got thca? a

21 A I believe I did. I,

22 0 Are those the boringc legs that !:r. Horn gave you on or~

r

..

L23 about January 31, 1979?

24 A I'm not going to be able to ancicr that.-,

h

*.

A11Luzod Reporting Service ,

. Lafayene Building 30840 %thuestern Hwy. 7

Suite MO 962 1176 Suae 220 iFarmington Hills, Michigan 4e018 |-Detroit, Michigan 48226 .

,

- , _ - _ _ , _ . _ . _ , _ . . _ . . _ . _ . _ . _ , _ _ . , _ _ _ _ . . _ _ _ . _ . _ _ . . _ . ,

l.1 0 You' ll note, let ce look over yc"- choulder, that these

2 boring logs in the be:: entitled Cample -- I' ve f orgotten

3 what that word is and I can' t read it here, Sample Hamner

4 Ieight ?cll?'

5 A Uc-ha. It icohs like it.

5 o It has nunber 140 then a pound synbol and clach 10 inchor..

7 Soc that?

.

3 A Ye s.

O q Do you recall ever loching at those numbers when you

10 raccived borinc lecc f rca :r. Ucrn?

11 A Mo, I did not.

12 0 There are ceveral related diaencicnc, are there no't, in

13 conductinc stan6ard penetration tectc, that ic, icn't

14 there a drop of 3.0 inchec where bbe har.cer, 140 poundI

15 hammer drop: 30 inchec then it drivcc a retcl bar II |

16 inchec into the ground?1.

17 ? "all, part of what you j u:t said uac cer rt ct.

18 O Pas part of it incorrect?

19 A Yec.,

20 0 Mhat part is incortoct?

21 A Generally the standard uc11a f or c 140 pound hammer. The

22 ASTU ctandard f or taking boringc, 30 inch drop, 140 pound

i"'23 hanner, and then you drive _it generally three si:: inch --

24 0 Increments?

.

Luzod Reporting Service 41?lafayette Building 30840 \,orthurstern llwy.Sutte 630 962.I176 Suae agoIktroit. Stichigan 48226 Farmington flills, Alichigan 48013

.

1 h Increments of penetration.into the ground.

2 0 The three si:: inch increments would total 10 irache,s?

3 A That's right.

4 0 Do you know of your own personal knowledge whether the

5 standard penetration tests reflected by tho.; two borinc

legc you have in front of you were done wit'r a 30 inch'

,

7 drop or an 10 inch drop?

R A It appearc frca this it was done uith an IE inch dr er.

O n I'm aching uhether you know if the test ittelf una donc

10 with a 70 inch drop vercus uhat the document says?

11 A one can' t tell from this document.

12 0 Is it conceivable that there could have bec,e recorfinc4

13 error by the percon who recorded the leg by uritinc l?

14 inch for the drop rcther thar the 3 0, inche: uu j u r. tIi

15 discusced?.

1G :'R. GCCLD: Cbj e ct ion. Cho witnocc h.73 juct

17 u stablished that cny such :.n cu a r ;culd be ;ur ;

10 speculaticn..

ii

r10 DY I'R. DRI:ZR :i

20 0 :s it possibic?

21 A Anything is possible.

22 0 Is that possible?

'

23 A Mell, if anything is possible --

24 O Then that's possible?

c.

413Luzod Reporting Service 30810 k.rthurstern lirlafayette BuildingSuite MO 962.I176 Suae LD1)etroit. \fichigan 48226 Farmington l{ ills; .\fichigan 48018

l

1 A Tha t ' s . po s si bl e .

2 0 But, in any event, when you reviewed the boring legs therc

3 wac nothing on then that cauced you to conduct an.

/ 4 investigation about the -length of the drop, vac there?

5 A 1:o, not at that point.

5 0 ro you have cny firct-hand knowledge cf the propriety cf

7 any of the standard penetrction tects conducted e'. the

? ::idland Puclear 21 ant? "h?n I cay first-hand hnoulefge, I

C necn sonething that you saw or visualized your celf.

10 A As far as borings go?

11 O Ye s,

'

,12 || A "o.

13 0 Uhat is the size of the equipncnt that is required in,

,

i14 order to conduct a coils boring or ctandard penetre tion

|9

15 tect, is it conething that is held in your hand?~

16 A It's a truck drill rig with an I.-f rane and -drilline, rig

17 accenbly, fairly large, js

|10 0 Fcirly large piece of equirment?|

'

19 7. The entire device, truck and rig, yet. ||

20 0 Did you ever cae boring equipment as you visited the i

21 I:idland ?!uclear Site at any location?Ii

22 !> ves, j,

is23 0 Did you ever see any tests being conducted?

24 A Eoring tests? ;

Iti

,

Luzod Reporting Service A14Lafayette Building 309M Northurstern Huy.Suite hw 962 1176 Suar 220Iktrmt, \fichigan 48226 Farminston Hills. Ali:higan 48018

f.

1 0 Yec..

2 A Yec.

3 0 Did you walk over to observe them to deternine if 'they

4 werc being done properly?*

.

5 A I: ore to 1coh at the resultc than, you know, the evere11

5 arrangement and the like.

7 0 You mean to 1cok cvor conebody's shoulder uho was

n recording the tect?

9 L Uo, to look at uhat the recultc of the tcctc vert in tcr:,c

10 of the number of bicus per foot of penetrz.nien.

11 0 And whct do you 1cok at?

12 A One simply counts the number of blews it tahcs in order to

13 penetrcte the drill bit into the ground 12 inches, 10

14 inchec, not 10, 12 inch es.,

15 0 Twelve inchec ic the bottor tu c- th i r d c , if you rill, of

if that tash. Don' t you dicregard the firct ci:. i r.ch e c ' 1

1|

|

|17

' .n i gh t , fcr beias dicrepted as a r.:nuit c f, t h 7 pr "; cur| -

i 10 removal of the tube and the like.

10 n So from the cu~rface of the ground to the botten cf the

|20 drilling' penetration ic a total cf 10 inchec? I

i .

|

| 21 A First increment, ye s.!

22 C And do I understand you to say that f rca on at 1cact one

(./,

23 occasion you actually visually observed the secadard,

24 penetratien tect being conducted and you cour ted the i_

.

4 '1 C fLuzod Reporting Service "

' 3m40 %.rthurstern liwy.lajhyette Busiding962 1176 Suite 220Suite MO .

Detroit, Stichigan 48226 Farmington flills, Alichigan 48018'

_ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

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1 blows?. ,

2 A I don' t know if I counted the bicus but I reviewed the

3 results of the test.

/ 4 Q Uhile it was being conducted?

r A Either uhile or juct in pasning to cee wh.t previouc tectc

6 had -- what the recults of previouc tectr had been during

7 that day.

's n Co you recell crecifically at uhac locacica you chcerved

C thoce tcstc?

10 !. 'T' hey were going on all over the placc.

11 r; Uho was doing the drilling? Do you renenbor the nare of

12 the company or ' individual?~

13 A It was rechtel' c contractor.

G "ou don' t know the nane?14 i

1*

,

15 A It night have been nnycond Internctional cr c lecc1 |

11 l driller.

''ere the penetraticn tucts being donc properly, O 2Cr c17 n.

13 you could tell frca uhat you observed?

19 A Specifically with ccgard to --

20 0 The length of the drop?

21 A I didn't measure. I never really measured the drop.I

22 #0 Uas there anything about the tests that was obvious to you

23 which would indicate to you they were noc being done

24 properly?

.

i

010'

Luzod Reporting Serviceisfayecto Buddine 30840 Northurstern Hwy.

Suite MO 962.I176 Suite 220Ektrat \fichigan 48226 Farmington Hills.11ichigan 48018

F ..: a . ..

1 4;, .Ther: oas nothing. I jidentified at that point. Keep in.,

'

2: raind, we vere really more sampling the recultc of previouc

'3 tests than to monitoring the actual tests at that time.

I 4 0- Dut there wac nothing. that _wac evident to you as you stooda .

5 ther a to indicate that there was something urong; in that.

'

G corrcct?

'7 A- "e weren' t looking f or cemething that was wrong, we were-

8 1cohing f or the rcsults of, the test.

9 0 ::y question cimply vac, when you uere etending there. and

10 observing' there tests was there anything that was aprarent..

11 . to you.which ~would indica te that, the teste were not being

12 conducted properly? -

13 A It's hard to ancuer that when one isn' t looking f or that,,

~.

14 to answer that accurately. I wac rcally looking f or the

15 results of the tects cnd never stood around countic.c the.

10 hl.cus per foot. That was another ccmpany' c f unctica. I

17 uns more interestcd ir, the result:...

10 0 I see.i

II A .Fre">uming they were done in accordance with the ::tandcrd.

|- 20 0 Did the PSAn at I:idland contain any of the boring logc?

| 21 A Uhich boring legc?

22 0 Any boring logs.

9 -

23 A I believe it did. Preliminary cite subsoil

24 invectigations.

.

017Luzod Reporting Service 30640 Northustern Hucy,lsfayette Building -

*' 962 1176 Suite 220Suite MO'

Detroit, Michigan 48226 Farmingts, Hills. Michigan 48018

-

1 0 Did you look at t+^7e boring logs when you started your

2 invest'igation?

3 A I don' t recall if we did.

4 0 Uhen you started your investigation did you ask tc see any

5 cther reports or ctudies or investigative documents frca

5 the "nC concerning the Midland soils?

7 A Yoc.

1 o You did?

O 7. Ye s.

10 0 Go if you' ve testifled several yeare ago that you hed not

11 looked at thoce documents because you deemed then

12 unimportant, wo'lle that have boon cn inaccurcte tectirony.

13 then?

14 ::n. GOOLD: Obj ecticn, unlenc ::r. Driher ic,

15 referring to thoce docuacnts. I think ue need t0 have

15 cone clarificaticn on uhat documente he's referring to.!

'17 A 'hich document s?

10 EY :-:n. CP.I!Cn:

19 Q I'm talking abour any studiec or Occuments within the!,

20 files of the :?nC coaling with the I:idland soils..

21 A In the 11RC?

22 O Yes, in the '.:nC...,

'

('23 A I didn' t ask tnen f or what we had. I was aching them for,

|

|

24 information regarding the colle work.

1*1

1

Lutod Reporting Service d18is)hyette Buddm.e 3@io A,onhurstens Huy.

I Suar MO. 962 III6 Suite 220Iktroit. \fichigan 48226 Farmberon Hills \fichigan 48018

r- .

~x . ..

d

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. Let me go back. I'l~ 0. Per. haps you misunderstood my quaction.1-

-2 was asking you what document: within- the 1:nc you rcviewed.

3 bef ore commencing your investigation.

C .4 A .Uhatever we had in the regional office at that time.

5 0- So-if thcre were other documents that dealt with-I:idland

6 coils yoti wouldn' t havo looked at thoce?

'7 A. Nell, net' hqving specif'ic documents, ' not naming any

C specific documentc, whatever uas on the shelf regarcing

9 the I:idland PCAn I would have attempted to secure and

1C review.

11 C Do you recall-when the FSA7 was filed by Consumerr with

12 respect to the niciand Plant? .

13 A no, I don' t.1

14 0 Do you rocci 1 reading any par t of that in connecticn uith

15 your invectiga tion of the soile quoctio,nc at r:idicnd?,

16 7 Vec.

17 r Ucc the ? car. in c::ictence uhen you began your..

13 investigation?

10 A I uoulc have to review my documents to see if it ucc in

20 e::istence at the outset or during. I' m not sure.

21 1 At some point you read it to the e:: tent --

22 A Mot the entire thing.

Q23 Q To the o::tont it was germano?

24 A To the relevant part: or chapters that ucre..

019. Lusod Reporting Service 30640 krthurstern Huy.Lafayette Building

Suite hw 962 1176 Sui e 2xDetroit, .\fichigan 48226 * Farmington Hills.' .\fichigan 48018'

,

1 0 Did the PS AP. contain. coil boring logc of th: 'tind of the

2 two exhibits you j ust reviewed?

3 A They included likes, yec.

(1 4 0 Did you review those?

5 A l'o t opecifically. In paccing perhaps glc..r:d at ther.

3 0 Pascing uhat?

7 A' Glanced at them. .

tid you over rcquest of Consurers or ''echrol during tt"3 ^-

. cource of your inves.tigaticn at I~iC1.:.nd that ei:.nor rJ"

10 ther produce all of the soile boring logs vi:h tr:goct to

11 I:idland?

12 6 You cay all cf the legs?.

13 0 Ye c.

14 I mado c r eq ue ct that requested cl1 cf the ralevant,

'

15 documente relating to the coils ucr'; cctivitiet.

16 0 ' y que st i ca i s na r r c'..'e r th a n th a t . ;.

!

17 2. If that uculd incluc'e legc, thun it t'ouli De all,

13 inclucive.

l '' O Did you ever npecifically cck to lcoh at boring lerc pr.t 1

i

10 ce?

21 A Yec.

22 0 '? hen did you ask them?,.A'

23 A During the content of our investigation.

24 0 Could you be core specific cc to time?

A20Lu:od Reporting ServicelAfyette Building 30840 Northurstern Huy.Suite MO 962.I176 S:ite 220Detrat. .\fichigan 48226 Farminston Hills. Alichigan w)l8

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W

1 A As they were getting boring log rc;sultc, I asked to tcho e

2 look at them. This is after the Dieccl Generator 3rilding

3 j cettled and af ter they embarked on boringc.

<-t 4 0 Did you ask anyone for historical boring logc, that it,

5 1ccc that had been takcn in ecclier ceila placement

6 activities?

7 A I don' t recall if it wac specifically uith respect to

0 boring logo. I did ask fc: any and all documentc that

9 related to coils ucrk activitiec, which would incit6e

10 certainly boring leec if they cer tainly e::ictef.

11 C Did you ever have a diccussion with anyone at Consuncrc

12 about boring lege per se?

13 A Sure.,

14 0 '7ho?-

.

15 A variety of people, ::r . Horn cortain1.y, as ue wers grtting |

13 rccultc, dircuscing the actual reculte, detcrnining

17 .6:th er it ucc ac'r:r un taly ccmpactc 0,. e. hr ther. i t ec c ;ccr

10 material, uhat type of matcrial.

19 7 So you were actually looking at these logc?e

'

20 A Prce time to time..

21 f And do you recall whether the logc you 1 coked at included

22 Deposition 3 tibits D 279 and D 200?.-o

23 A Cut of conte::t I would not be able to antwor chat.

24 0 itith respect to the FS AR, would you 29 tee or disagree uith.

''' ' 1f.u:od Reporting Service 3m40 k.rthurstern lluy."

isfayette RaildingSuste MO 962.I176 Suar ::oDetroit, \fichigan 48226 - Fa.mington flills Stichigan 48018

,

.

1 the . cta tement, in a document of that si::e and comple::ity

2 there are apt to be errors or inconcistencies between the'

3 document and the as-btiilt condition of the plant?

/ 4 A tie t supposed to be.

5 0 Dy cuestion ic, uculd you agree with the stctcment thct

G you vould e::pect tc find that?

'

7 A I con' t think we e::pect to find it.

3 0 If you had tectified to that offect carlier, .'oul6 t';az

9 tcctimony be in error?

10 7, "ct necessarily.

11 0 Can jou e:: plain your cacwer?

12 A I might have felt then that we e::pect them to be and todq-

13 I f cel that we don' t e::nect' ther to be.

14 0 So has your view changed on the level cf accuracy th$.t 700

- * in o n PS An? |15 c::ne ct;.

1G A I don't thinh 20. "e c::r e ct them tc be accurate. 'c rely

17 cn tn.:m.

13 0 "ou testified earlier in your depocition a couplc u 2eh,

10 ago that the failure to discloce the I.dministratica nuildiin.!-

|

20 grade beam f ailure wec determined by the I'nC to be e. ndter nal

!

21 falce statement by Consumers?

22 A That's cor;ect. It vac determined by the !!nC that

('23 Consumer s --

24 C I ad committed a material f alce cta tement?|

[

* Lu:od Reporting Service 0221

Lafa>rtte Buddint 30840 Northurstern Huy.Suite MO 962.I176 Suite 220iktront; \fichitan 4R226 Farmington Hdh, \fichigan 2018'

,

.

1 A That's correct.

2 0 Is that finding memorialiced in an of ficial document by

3 the I!RC?

( 4 A I believe it wac in the form of the December 5th order.'

'l Q Isn' t it a fact that the Ceccabor 5th ordct dcolt *!iti. the

6 iscuc of the Psic. ctating that the fill ucult bn compaced

7 cohocive fill? -

.

3 7: Controlled ccaracted. cohecive fill cf cer tair densi tice.6 n And that unc the cubject matter cf the material f cir: .

10 statcment finding rather than the Idniniccr6tica "uilding

11 grade beam failur,'?

12 A That's cor rect. -

13 O So you were in error when you caid that the 1.daini stra tica

10 ..Building grade beam f ailuro was the cubj ect of a findinc of*

If a naterial falso Otancment?

15 A l'e c , that's cor rect. Our buildingc cra gecting blurry at

17 thi roint, diecel ger.cra or --.

10 r In your e::perience at Eba cco did :100 have any

19 responcibility for the ccheduling of congletion of nucicar

20 power plant conctruction?

21 A 1:o.

22 0 to you have any triining in schedulinc critical path,

i23 methods or any other ccheduling art in construction of a

''

24 nuclear power plant?

."~93Luzod Reporting Service 30840 A.orthurstern Hwy.lafayette Rusidsng962.]]76 Suar 220Suiu $30

Detroit. Alichizan 48226 Farmineton Udis, Stichigan 48018

-

1 A Yo n ..

2 0 Uhat is that trcining?

3 A At Ebasco ue had general trcining in critical path

N' 4 netuorhc and certainly academically ue studied techniques

5 ^* proj ect controls and project nanagement in tcrne of

5 construction schedules and critical rath methods.

7 0 You never cetually 'had the responsibility to develop n

P; ccnstruction cchedule f or a job in progrecc, hcyo you?

D A Other than providing input inco generally uhat longtha of

10 time a ucrk activity or ehat level cf recource c c uoth

11 activity uould take. The planner and scheculer rc11ec ca

'

12 a variety of diccipline,c to input uhat recourece and

13 materials and time one uoulG take in acccepliching

14 Cifferent tachc.

15 O So that other,than providin? the matc.ric1 or informatien

16 to the ccheduler, uhich he draun upon frcn hunGr"d cr

17 perhapc thoccandc of recple, y o u ' v r. ha? nc r bc a. a t '. ili ;v

1? f or the cchecule of a nuclear plant; ic that correct?

10 A That's cor rect. I have never been a planner and cchedulcr

20 f or an overall proj ect.'

21 C Uith recpect to your assignment at the Unc, you di/ not

22 I have either the recponsibility or authority to evaluate,','

23 the schedule of the liidland Plant, did you?"

24 A Cther than again providing input to the Project ::anagenent

Luzod Reporting bervice 420Isfayette Busidm.e ' 30940 h,orthustern Uncy.Suite hw 962 1176 Suste 2MDetyt.11ichizan 48226 Farminston Hills, .\fschigan 48018-

_ -. . _ - _ _ - - _

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-. w

2

:-1 '

1; ..and also throuch ,the ' Project Manager to. the Cace Load. ,,,

,

. .,

2 Fordcase' Panel as to what11ength of ' time it would perhape.

3. 'take in terms of completing work activities or, you know,

4 certain corrective actions.

5 0 !? hat is the Ca c Load Forecast- Panel?

'G A Basicclly it' c a group of people in the URC that go out,

''

and.cyclustc the ctatuc of conctruction in order to plan-7 -

8 for ERC decling with licensing matters on : variety c1

9 projects.,

10- 0 Are they the branch of the UnC that ic ultimately

11 interested with the responsibility of predicting the1

12 completion da re mf construction?'

13 A' That's cor rect.'

14 0' "ere you a member of the case Load Forecast Fono17

15 A Do.

16 0- Did you have any recronsibil'ity othr r thnn uhat you' ve4e

,

17 deceribed beforc, perhopc.providing some informaticn to

13 it? Did you have cny responsibility directly to the pan l,

19 in its evaluative process or in its conclusionc? ~,

20 A 061y through regicnal management and providing input as to

21 how the region saw the progresc happening and issues being.

. 22 resolved in the conduct of coils work.f

i_ {~'~;

j - 23 0 You were . asked this morning by Mr. Goold about your

; 24 opinion on whether Midland was goina to make its dacco and,

:*

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en'" 'ns

Luzod Reporting Sers: iceLafayette lkilding 30840 Northursterrs Huy.

'

962.ll?6 Suue 220Suite sw . -

Detroit. Michigan 48226 r'armington Hills, Michigan 48018

.

1 you were unsure what the dat " were, and I believe the cun,

2 of your tectimony ucs that you thought it would never be

3 done; it that correct?

''. 4 A That' c cor rect.

5 0 Did you have responcibilit-; to nahe that predictica cr

G cvalua ticn on behalf cf the t'nc?

7 A l'o,-

'' n "ac such a nrediction or evaluation nade by thc- 1"'C?

D .' An of ficial pocition by, the :nC?

10 o 2e0

11 ?- I'ot that I' m aucr e of ..

- 12 0 Did the Cace Load Forecact Panel itself muhe fernal

13 predictions about its proj ected dat2 of conpleticn of the4

1/ .'lidland Plant? .

|-

.

15 "n. 00CLE: Objection. That que tion

i

1C ascumes the Case Load Forec::t Panel rade indc7en2 .t '

17 . ptc dictienc rega r di ng cc=*;1 etic: dc t2.:.'

I

, DP. I .". ".. " - ,'3n ,.- .,- . . . . ..,

19 C You can ancuer the question.

20 "n. COCLD: I con' t believe any Euch

21 evidence is in the record or will become part of the

2' record, but in any cace that's my obj ecticn..

| 23 Is They routinely make predictions about construction1t

24 conpleticn of all plants. They utilize pretty much

.

i,

l|

0 2 'dlafyrtte Budd:ng

Luzod Reportine Sertice' 30940 %.rthuntern lluy.i '

962.]]76 Suite 2:0Suae MoIktroit, \fichigan 48226 Farminston flith. Michip.n M1018

.

,.

.

1 statictical methodo in detertining how n;n; man-hour c need

2 to be e::pected to generally accomplich cor Lain tachc.

3 They do not make any accccctent as to the genercl.

(< 4 dif ficulty or capability of anyone to actually accceplich

5 the cash. They rely cor e en inputc f ro... other

5 crecialistc.

~7 Did you have any direct contcct with the Cace Lead^

C Poreccct Panel uith re:pect to the ridlrn; "ucl_:.r riant?

D A "ot dircctly, only through Prcj ect ranagenent _-e c cl e .

dig you ever orclly or in vriting cocounicatc- t h e c t r;i, :110 c

11 Proj ect lianager or the ecgicn or th rough any other pa th in

12 the liPC your disagreccent with the Cast L"'nd Forcc: 0t

13 Panel' c reports on ::idland?.

14 A :::ny timeQ thrcugh Darl I: cod I voiced my upinion tr.r.:

15 given the e:: tent of the site Geficienciec that i t '. 7,a l t bc ji

13 remote whether cr not they coule pull it off, h f

1l i

And c'.iC y ou o ch ::r. : cod to cor.viy th:.t ic ths Cn - L. | 517 e

i

10 Forecast Panel?.

19 A I don' t know.

20 $ Did he respond?| ~

21 |A !!e asked for all partiec' input and I cave it to him.

22 Uhat he did with it I really don' t know.

(23 n Did you confirm that input in writing?

24 7. ro, I never did.

"^7et.uzod Reporting Service .>0810 \.orthurstern lincy..

lxfayette BuddvatSuar MO 962 11:'6 s,ae 220

Ektmt. \lichigan 48226 Farmington lidh, Alahie. 48018

1 G Let's talk about the.curcharge at the Diecol Generato-.

2 3uilding for a nonent. Did you have the parconal

3 authority to prevent Consumers frca putting the curcharge

4 on?

- . ,.o .u 6. ..

G O Did you have the perconal authority to direct that i2 not

7 be taken off?

0 A ro.

9 n Did you reconnend to anyone in the UnC that th y issue

10 cone type of an order preventing Concuncre f rcr rc=cvint

11 the surcharge?

12 A I reconnended that they not put it on.

13 0 Jus *. ancuer ny question.,

14 7. I ca n't cnswer that question if it pr acunca a suppo si tion

j 13 that don't agree with.'

t

2a Cher e' c no cupposi tion to it.o'

I

1

| 17 .'. 7e cuppocitien . cc if I cay it shoulcn'- ce rc .:c :! ,

I 13 nuct have been of the cpinion that it choulJ hcve cocn put

! 19 on.|

| 20 0 don' t inply that by my quection.1

1

| 21 :'.n. CRInEn: ''oulc. you read the quecricn.

22 back?.

s:

~

23 (The requested por tion of the.

! 24 record unc recd bach as follcus:

.

'i!.

Lusod Reporting Service 413lxfayette Building 3m40 A,orthuntern lluySuite Ma 962 1176 Suur 220

, ,

i Detrat, \fichizan 48226 FarrninKlon Ndis. %Chican 48O181

L

_ _ - .

.

1 "Q. Did you recommend to anyone in,

2 the UnC that thcy issue come type of

3 an order preventing Concumers from

l' 4 rcmcVing the surchargo?")

5 A ;'o .

5 OY I:n. D?I 23 :

7 0' cid the I'nC have the authority to direct Consumerc not to

, lace the curcharge?P '

r A I woule have to check the regulaticns en that. I' n not

10 precicely cure. In cenertl tern,., I believe if conething

11 is going to indicate scne saf ety function of the plant

12 that they would have the authority t6 take actica,

13 C Did the tinC formally di rect Consumers nc't to ' proceed with

14 the curcharge?*

.

3. - ..o..n i.

13 0 Did the :'nC f ormnlly di rect Contuncr2 not t o e c c'z t:w:i

17 c u r ch c r c,e ? -

18 A ':oc that I' m au a r c of .

19 R As betu'een you and Dr. ?cInh Peck, uho would you think ucc

20 more qualified in 1973 to determine a remedial progrca for

21 the Diocel Generator Building soils problem?

22 A Dr. ?eck.

G23 0 You were asked by fir Goold whether -- let's back up. You

24 tectified coveral years ago that, to your knowledgc, the

.

d

4 '' 9Luzod Reporting Service gag,o y,,,g,;,,, y,,_g g , ,,,, y ;g ,962 1176 Suar 220Suite MO

Farmington Hith, Michigan 18018(k troit, Michigan 48226

<

1 f ailure of Consumers to disclose the Adminictration

2 Duilding grade beam f ailure was not, and I'm parcphracing,

3 it vos not an intentional eff ort to mislead the Unc.

.

4 That may not- be it exactly but you --

5 PE. GOOLD: I believe the quection pocod to

? him wec, hcd he any evidence es of th .t date of hic

7 c::perience to chat'cffect.

1, r. *./ ''S.. T. 7 .". ". 2"... - ..

O n "hatever it uns, either you had no evidence or no reccon

10 to believe that there wec sn intenticncl cffert on

11 the pcrt cf Conrumerc to withhold evidence of the 7:dmin-

12 ictration nuilding grade bean f ailure, do you recall that?-

.

13 7, Vaguely.,

3* O And I*r. Goold ached you both on the 13th and yectardw

15 that baced upon the e::hibits which he h id placed in f rcnt

15 cf you at your tuo depositien ca csions uhtther ycu ctillI,

17 a gru C tith that conciciicn; do you rec:11 :. it?

1 ^. A 'lo c ,

if n 7.nd I believe your tectimony van thct ba ced on thr-

20 e::hibits you've now coen you would amend your earlier

22 answer and conclude to the contrary; is that correct?

22 A That' c correct.,-,

, ,,e

23 0 I' d like you to take a f ew cinutes and take all the

24 e::hibits that have been precented to you in the lact tu o

430Luzad Reporting Service30%0 S:orthuntern l{ sty,lafayette Busidmg

Suar tuo 962.I176 Suite 220(ktrmt. \fichigan 48226 Farmmeton Hith, 5fichigan 48018

.

-

1 *vs and go through them, please, and pull out thoce

2 v::hibits which you now believe modify your earlier ancuer,

3 and I'm going to vant to question you about those.

I 4 A Thic might take come time,,

5 0 Ohat's all right. Take your time.

G Thcce are all the c::hibi ts f rca la st time, toc?'.

7 0 Yes.

Un. COCLP: I thinh co. ''h i l c the uitrett9 )

0 ic icoking thrcugh that I': going to obj ect to thir

10 querrion. I think the record ic clear frcm the

11 e::cmination of the uitnccc et the ime uhat the e::hibits

12 were that had been eclled to hic attentien en thic.

13 question and thic in a vaste of time for him.to neu c.c,.

14 b.nch through a ctack of documents come inchet high cnc. he:

15 come hundrede of pagos in it to pull out the particular

15 cncc uhen that can be very easily done by 1cchir.c : cne

; 17 Or t.!c rages of tranccript f t :r th - previcur c._'cien.I

|-

,n .. -

I . 3. . .n.,...%...1.,. .., . . - .. -

19 9 '?ou' ve had a chance to lech through the documenr:?.i,

20 A I've gone thrcugh the list and ,c: 1ecct initiclly tN .e

21 dccuments relate to that questien.

| 22 0 Let's take these one at a time. Lct me show you tha first,

(,~;,

23 document, P:: PEC 1, uhich are Dr. ?cch's. notec cf a meeting

24 on September 20, 1973 Do you recc11 that?

1,

a31Luzod Reporting Service *

30840 \.orthuntern Huy.Lafayette BuddagSuite MO 962 1176 Suite 220*

Detrat. Alichigan 48226 Farmmatun Hulh Alichigan 48018

- - - _ - - -

,

.1 A That's corre:t.

2 O And I believe ::r. Goold ached you to look at the0G norec

3 and directed your attention to a notation at th e bot r or c'f

.

4 page two; is that correct?

5 A Th a t ' s co r t .. ct .

G O Can ye" rend uhc that parrgrcph says?

7~ A "Adnin building uall, replaced f ooting, took out all fill,

9 replaced uith' cane ran6om clay, sand fill no::t to it" I-

0 it looks like -- "may cot full of ruinuater, clay fill u.

10 ve t, was before pond" and I C3n't rcad the ochcr.

11 r' ' lou've met Dr. Palph Peck, have you not'r

12 A At certain neatincs.

13 0 nelating to the I:idland renedial ef f or t.c?*

la A Yec.

O '-:c y . Dif you ever d.iscuct uith, hit. the courcoc cf '-ir15 o.

15 infermaticn cone:rninc. the colla 7.reblen et 'idl n ?.

,I

1'

17 ; ':o.,. .

:

13 0 to you have any independent knowledge of wherc he got th"

If informaticn that appears in P:: Pech 1?

20 A Co.

21 0 I take it you haven' t phoned Dr. Pech to ask hi about

22 this since this documant was draun to your attenticn?

#23 A I really never had any direct conversaticnc uith him other

24 than come "uecticnc and ancuers in the course cf meetingc..

I

i

!

Luzod Reporting Service 4323(840 A.orthurstern Huy.f.afay. tte Buildinge

Susto Mo 962 1176 Suite 2:0*

Detrat, Alichieu 48226 Farmanuton Hills. Alichien 48018

.

1. C IIave you read this entire 4-cument?-

2 A Uo.

3 0 IIave you tried to make sence out of what all thoce

,~4 notatienc are or what s.. y say?'

|5 A I haven' t read the entir: docunent.

5 0 Oc the cignificance of this document, ac f ar as you' re

7 concerned, is the fact that it,nentiene the Mainiccra ticn

P Sui 16ing in the 12ct paragrcph of th0 ceccnd page?

9 ?. And the dcte on the docunent.

Of Septonbor 20, 1073?10 n

11 A Chat's cor r ect.

rou knou nothing oise abou* this infor..atica 3ecicc6 uhat12 6

13 appears on the fccc of the document?

12 A '' hon you cay nothing else: cito ut thic informatica, I' m net.

..

15 sure uhat you .cen. I neu knew inf ornaticn about t :. -

15 A6.inistration m uilding.

17 e rou don' t % n c,7 *tha t the ccurce of t:c: ?.J.r i ni c t r ;;i c n

18 ruilding unc tc Cr. ?cch, do ycu?

19 A ro, I don' t know who cocirunien ted this to him.

20 n You really don't know cingly frca recding thesc

21 abbreviated notes what was in his mind, do you?

22 A t' ell, I think it memoriali::ec what was in hic minc.,

23 C Can you tell other than from reading the notes thensc1vec?

24 A It's celf-e::planctory, Mnin voll replaced f ooting. :'ow ,

A33Luzod Reporting Service3 % 0 %.hurstern flui.lafyette Budding

Suste MO 962 1176 Sutte 220

Detroit, \fichigan 48226 forMU1EfM $$tIb, N hilan 480l8.

,--- - - - _ - - -

|

1 unlece Dr. Peck.can also read minds, smone told hin

2 obout that. I knew he was a good coils cncineer but I

3 didn't acu he vac a mind reader. The date, Septcnber 20,

( 4 197U, is et e::treme cignificance in the fo'" that not tuo

5 ucchs before ve uere conducting en official :'nc

C invectigaticn into th> coils ccttlement problem at ::idland

7 and un~c not inf orr.ed of thc; event.

"cu rany hours dif. you cpr nd together uit'r Dr. ?cch in3 o e

! your variouc meetingc uith hin? |

10 7 I nean, he una attending the car.m ncc:init I was over :: . .-

11 cource of perhaps three, f our days, run to tour Cayr

12 probably.

13 O "cre thoce mootings inf ormal in nature, ucrc pecile.

.

14 talking bach and f orth acrocc the table?

15 ?. They verc f ai'rly ctructt. red meetings. I rctenimr rec:'.

15 attending particularly three meetings I '!cc at, tuo of

17 then en cit. :nd nau in th^ :' .C of f ice c..

13 Q Did ycu ever cpeah uith hir directly?

19 T- Other than i: the course of achine. c.ue-tienc.|20 0 Did you ever ach hir a cue.cticn?

21 A That's cor rect.

22 Did he also cpeak up at these nectingc and give hit

prof easional opinica on the subject matter that vac beinc

discussed?.

Luzod Reporting Service 03430940 ,\.orthurstern Huy.lafayette Building

Suite MO 962 1ii6 Suite NODetroit,11ichigan 48226 Fermington Hills, .\fichigan Wi8

,

.

1 A If he.vac asked. He did not generally of f er too much . It,

2 was a f airly structured progran uheneve~r they had their

3 consultants present as to uhat vac their ccope and he uced

4 to nake it very clear his ccope vac the Diecol Generator-

5 Ouilding and not beyond that.

Did you ask hir any quectienc ac to whether he kneu any5 o

7 information beyond tho' Didcol Generator Puilding?

'

3 -l I never interrorated Dr. Peck --

0 9 I didn't --

1C I:n. GOCLD: Let thc Uitnecc finich.

11 A I cinply acked him technical guestionc relating to hic

12 acsescnont of the cpecific probicn.-

13 3Y ::n. DnI".En:

14 Q Did cnyone else in the rcon over ack hiin any que ct ien'--

15 about coils problene othc r thah at the Diecel Cencr tor

10 Euildinc?I

' '17 I Jen' ' kncu thct they di-. I' . net aucre ::. c. t ::nr Jin..

l? n "aaed on everythinc you have ceen thus far, do ycu thin:-

10 Cr. Peck lied to you in rcr:cnclir. . to any quections you,

20 acked of hin? -

21 A Cpecific quactienc?

22 0 Yec.,

\>23 A Uell, if you include disclocure, perhaps it certainly did

24 not cicclose relevant inf ormation that unc cuare to hin

.

0 3 "'Luzod Reporting Sersite 3B40 h.orthmtern fluy.lafaptie BaildingSuae Sw 962 1176 . Sir wLb:roit, \fichigan 48;!:". Farmingtas Hills, Alichigan 48018

.,

_ _ - _ _

l. that wac not apare to us, that ue vere not aware of. ': hen

2 you say "lied", which ic your ucrd, I don' t knou cf any

3 direct cuestion that is, you know, hou nuch is the soda

/ 4 and he lied that it vac not 35 cent . I do not kncu of

5 cny direct question that una asked that he in f act lied,

5 if you cait cicclocure.

7 C Do you kncu uhen Dr. Peck uns brought on board tv doel

3 uith the coils ';roblon?

D A "ot precisely.

10 n Uas it appro::inately the case ti: e you were gatti: -

11 invalved in this, the late cumner er carly f all of 1^7"?

12 A *'o c . ..

13 0 Ohay. Let's put Dr. Pech' c notes acide and ancther,

1

14 document that I belicve you f cund partinent tc your,

15 annended ancuer it document ?:: C?C 52C; it th;t co r r :-ct ?

15 A Th a t ' ; correct.

17 ' ' n C I b t '. i c y c , corr ct ac if I' m u:cn!, I b' 1 a / ' t.. :^- -

,

13 uhat y.u f ound pertinent to your tettimony now ar<- th

10 handuritten notec in the document; is that correect?

20 A I believe to, yec.

21 G And there is a note at the bottom cf the ceccad page

)22 decling uith the Administratien Duilding, is that correct,

(..23 and other buildinas?

24 A That's cor r ect.

Luzod Reporting Service 03GLafayette Building 30840 %.rth u estern ' Huy.Suar rw 962 1176 Sune 2MDetrou. \fichigan 48226 Farmington Hills, \fichigan 18018

.

1 0 Is there anything elce about this document that you find

2 onlightening in terms of nou changing your opinien about

3 Concumer c' dicciosure?9

( 4 7. The dato October 31st, 1978 cnd the relevant handuritten

5 notes.

G n t' hen coupled with the handuriting?

7 A That'c correct.

3 0 Do you recogrice the hand riting?

:'ot innediately.? ? -

10 o Do you knou uhen the han^.;ricten notec verc placcC on thc

11 document?

*

12 A ::o.,

13 o so that ac f ar ar. you' re concerned baced on your o..'n

.

14 l knouledge, if there hcnderitten notec ucrc $1.ecc6 on t..e

15 dccument af ter January of 1079 it vould have no betricc,

15 upon your tectimony concerning Concumerc' disclecure cf

17 th" Mnin --

la I:n. GOOLD: Obj e ct i on. It ..icchcracterice_

'

l? his tectimony.

20 " i' I:R . D 'I::On :.

''

21 C Concerninc the ACmin - let ne ack tht questica

22 different'./. The pertinent acpect of the handariting ic

(#23 your acsumption it was placed on C.:e document at or cbout

24 the time the document was written, isn't that co?

.

'"' ' 7Luzod Reporting S rvice ;3W40 A.orthurstem Huy.Lajhyrar Butidint

Suur MO 962-)ii6 Suur 220 -

Detroit, \lichitan 48226 Farmincton Hslis, \fichigan 18018

1 A Ye s..

2 0 Let's lay that a::ide new and let's turn to document 2:: "CC

3 237.

4 A Uell, one other thing raqarding the previous document,

3 520, and that's the notatien up in the right corner of t..<

G ficct pa ge , which is f rcn 2:T to OHH, which copies to a

7 number of other people. DM!: referring to tir. I'c r gugl io,

9 thereby valideting the banduritten ec=nente as hic.

Uhy do you vclidate the concente ac hic?O ^

10 7. They' re the ccue han&.. riting.

11 C Co you kncu when ::r. :'arguglio placed the hanUerittar

12 comment on the -2ccument?

13 A t' ell, the document is dated October 31st, there ic c

.

14 P.cceived ctamp on it !?cvember let, 1079. . It' C u rittc n.

15 frcr !!crn to :':rguglio dircctly. It :ppearc tri he

15 received it on or about October 31ct. In fact, ho|

-

'

17 c c cc iv ?d i t : cv e- cr 1ct.W

10 n ::y questien .it, Co you kncu uhen the h$n&.ri tc; cow.:e n n

19 vere placed on the document, do you kncu?

20 A It appears as though it va3 simul:cneous 't ith the r e ceit:t .-

.

21 C On what baais can you make that s t :. teme n t , !:r. Gallagher?

22 A It's there..

"'23 0 Uhat in th3re?

.

24 A I mean., there's no date cf the hanc:uritten documente but -< -

.

Luzod Reporsing Sert ice 43G30%0 %. huntern llwy,lsfayette Buildm.e rt

Suite A30 962.I176 Suur 220*

Farmington Hdis. Afschigan 48013(ktruit. \fichigun 482.'M .

. - -

.

.

1. . O So i t's yo"- testimony, you conclude theref ore, that out

2 of necoscity the han6 written notes muct have been picced

3 on that document on er about the day it uco r$ccived byF

4 !*r. I:argoglio?

5 ?s Tha t's cc r *.ainly one theory.

5 1 ?.re there other poncible theoriec?

7 7. I' m sure you can thir'' cf a f ew.

?:y questicn is to you, ir there another gocribility?* n

9 :'D . CCCLD: Obj ection. Thic i; crquirt *rith

IC the vitnecc, tu c , it is calling for hir to c::c cula te on

11 senethinc where he' c already indice:co -- le: ce

12 sunnarico. You'rc jurt calling dor hit to cpeculo:r r.n o

13 tryir.g t'o argue uith him, and I obj ect.

l .', r. ". . ". . , &s ,. I ", '..-. .

.

15 0 ro you know of any factc to cu c.ert vcur cuc.e.ccticn tha '

,, .

1: :he handuritten notes appocring on dccunen: CT' F 2 0 ze r .

i

17 ;1 a cc : or, thc docencnt .rcund 'ov t:.cc r 1, 107 '' ?,

13 ?. Only in that it's dated ac cuch uith a acc ive(. c::mp on

,10 it.

|

1

| 20 0 The handwritten notes are not dated, are thcy?

21 A The to, f rc a and the CCs are directly no::t to the received

I

! 22 UcVember 1st, 197 3 dato.' /' s-

23 7 I:y cuestion to you is, are the handwritten notec dated?'

24 7. Uo, they're not.

-,

|

l

'.t 3 o* *Luzod Re,m, ting Service 3mso %nhuntern HuyLafvette Buildin 962.I176 Suar 2:0Suarfa0

Farminton Hith, 3ischiun 48018\ Detroit, Alichigan 482:6

,

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

1 0 .Let's go to the nc::t dor'"'"ent which you indicated is

2 pertinent to your conclucien that Concumcrc knew about the --

that Concemero inten'.icnolly f ailed to dicc1ccc to the "nC3 -

i 4 the adminictsation grade beam fcilure, and thic ic rechtel

5 237 given to yc u thic .rcrning by .ir. Goold. Uculd you

5 lock at that de cenent and tell re uhat en that doerment

7 leado you to beliere that Concunerc Fouer Company

3 deliberatcly uithheld inf ormatien f rom the 9PC concernin:.

O the Adminictration ruilding crade bcar. failure?

10 A "ell, the docuraent ic dated January 13, 1570. I:' c f rr

11 the Proj ect Engineer f or the Eochtel organicntion, .r.'

12' Cactleberry. It is rcqun cting T.r. :'cugen, who vac the.

13 conctruction Proj ect Canager f c r P: ?ch tel cn- si te, to

14 perfort ctandard penetrcti en tect bo2ince in the vicinity,

15 of~the Dio al Gencretor P.uilding anG cther buildir{

15 curvrtc, unter putr ctructure, in an attert. to

17 di:1.oci tien nonconf crr.c acr re;or 1 : 0 /. .

In Chat inf ormatica ic c:r tainly rel:.vant t o --

19 vac certainly relevant to our investiga icn in ':no"ing

10 uhen and to uhat e::t e nt the coils deficienciac uere on thc-

21 ':idland cite. A January 1978 dated document ic certainly

22 relevant. It ucc never produced to me. -

.

Y23 0 Relevant to shou what?

24 ?. That there vac sucpect at 1:act of inadec;uately compact ?d

Lu:od Reporting Service A4030940 A.orthurstern Huy.Lafayette Building

'

962 !l76 Suae ::oSuite EGODetrat. \fichigan 48226 Farnuncton HWs, Alichigan 48019

- ,

,

1 matorial around the Diecel Generator r tilding arco and the,

.

2 service water pump structure on or abvut January 13, 1973,

3 uhich is almoct eight months prior to dicclocure of, in

f 4 fact, a problen..

5 C Is therc anytning in that c'ocument ':b a t rufer: to th-.

C Adninictrction T.uilding gradr: bean fcilure?

7 7. ::c, not to the Adminictration Duilding but to a cite-uide

9 problem.

y "here doen it c c.e ci te-uido t. r ebl en?^4

1C A A variety of differt:nt a rec c.

'' O Shou ne where.

12 A Diecel Generttor Cuilding, cervice uc*cr pump structurr..

13 and the related tests to nonconf ormance repor t 1C O':.,

Are you f amiliar uith nonconf ornance toport 100/?14 n

15 A It ucc in another document c:rlier tedcy.

15 1 "our rtctement that thic document ch eu c a c i t ;-u p.' e ceil:

17 p r cbl :.. ccacc 2 rcn the fac cf t '. . - Cecur.ea; i:ul:7,

.

In A co, I didn't cay tha t. 7.t l ec ct a cuc;icicn*:: tah

10 standard penetration tects, uhich ir f airly -- ao a

10 routine tect, to clear a nonconfornance report. It uculd,

.

21 take a fairly significant deci:icn to caback on a str.nccrd

| 22 penetration tect, to order those or rcquect thct, es the

C' 23 Proj ect. Engineer did, and the fact that thoce vero not

24 taken per the, or et least delt.ved ertensively per the

.

4 .' lLusod Reporting Sertice 30940 k.rthurstern Hwy.kfgegig BuildingSQuenyo 962 1176 Suar LMDetrat, Michigan 48226 farmington Hills, Michigan 48018

_ _ _ _ _

.

.

1 handwritten. notes on CPC 530, uhich. appear to be " .

2 !!orn's handw riting.

3 These tuo documents in concert now indicate

0 to ne that the -- that at least the cuspicion of coilt

5 probic.n voll beycnd the Diocel G,.:nc ra tor Duildi r e; c::i :t e c.

C rene eiriht monthe in advance. And i t' c int erc ct m; tha t

7 thic dcte is very neer' the De,ctnber 1977 report that

3 9echec1 con 6ucted around the Adninirtratien ruilcing. The

9 Pr oj ect Ongineer uculd certainly be of authorit" c nw

30 requect acre e::tencive tectc than routine,

11 0 Is there anything or. the f ace of document 237 to thcv enut

12 it uac cent to anycnc at Consunierc Pcuer Compar y?

13 A Mot on the face of it.' :::cuso :e. :::cecc ne, not on the

1* f:.ce of this d.ccunent.

If 0 That' c all I' n achi nc.-

.

15 7. 'ut on the fcc' of thic other focument, C2C 530, lic? .r.,

.

17 "r.rn refircncc: t h i ; C o c ur.: e n t . .

.

, 10 Let' c take it onc at a tir..e.^

1C A You ca n' t j ust take it one at a tine. You have te lcch at

20 then in the conto::t that they are. On the face of 1 :,i

21 that one doccn' t -- on the fac) of 530 it certainly

22 appears they ucre avarc of it./

''

23 0 Is there anything on the face of document 237 to chew it

20 Vac sent to Consumers Feuer Company?

Lu:od Reporting ' ervice 002'

S30840 h.orthuntern Huy.isfayrtte Building

Suite MO 962.]]i6 Surge ggo

Detmt. \fichigan M226 Farmington Hills, Afschigan 48618

.

_

,

e

1 7._

On January 13, 19707,

2 0 '.'e c .

3 7, It docen' t have any CCc.

I 4.0 And do you have any first-htnd hnculcCcje ac to uhen thic

5 document, if ever, ucc sent to Concener c Ecuer Ccmf r riy?e

5 ?- "o.

7 0 All righ t. The other three documents that you've modo

ref ere nce to in going througb the full ,c t cf c: hibi::^

C begin *?ith ?". 7 ech tel 227. "tw t is it bcut t r.a t decr:xr:

10 which leade you te believe, that leade you new t c b e l i m-

11 tnat your earlier ctatement concernirg Concumerc'

12 deliberate attempt to keep the adminictraticn gride bean.

13 f ailure f rca you is no longer tree?

14 A "cll, again thic document needs to be acer' in the cort. :::..

'1!i c." the cther documents. The dctc of this decement i:

13 December 1?77, it cddrecsan tha ?i.nini:traticn

17 7 tildi'ng t|t c d: bcr- f ailura and it': juct a yc i c. : cf

l? rcferr. ace in terms of the chronolecy of evente that tcch

19 place.

20 0 "hon did you first C ae P" ".ech tel 2 27 ?

21 .A I seem to recall some time -- it's probably recember or

22 probably Jaruary of 197 0, early January cf 197 0..

(^'23 1 Chic document was given to you by rech:el, vas it not?

^

24 a P. r . Tuv eco n.

e

E ''' 3Luzod Iteporting Setrice 3M40 %.''hu n''t" II"y-La);syrtar k! Jing962 1176 Suar 220Sig,gyo

Detrat, \fichigan 482:s Farmungton.Hilh, \fichigan 49018

( .

,

1 C 7,nd until f r. Tuvecon raiced the Mcinistration Dui). ding

2 grcdc hean failure with you you did not knou about it; in

3 that correct?

4 7. That's ent rect.'

S 6 !!e raiccl i t *, tith you?

$ 7. Tha t' L CctrCCt.

7 C itnd theti iso told you that a report had been uritten about

*- it?

0 7 "ec.

1C n and he gave you the rc-porc7

11 3 I don' t hr.ou if he gcVe it or if he had coccono give it Oc

'

12 uc. I believe he gave it us to uc..

13 n Lac no chow you a document,ue'll arh the reporter to ncrh

14 ac Def endant Depocition 3::hibit 231 and ack you 12 thic it.

15 actually c copy of th report thn: ::r . Tuvecen Tw: yer|

|

15 and in thic your hcncwriting in the ic, er risht-1.cni i

17 c o r c.c r , "?.f.in buildinc r .::.o r t r .cc iv - f ;; :~ " a n 1 ?.-7 " ,

.s,. c . n3. o - . v>

10 (Ceroci tion C::hibi t "c. D-231,

| 20 Inter-Cffice nemorandun, datud,

21 1-13-73, fren R. L. Ccatleberry

22 to J. F. !'ew ge n , S ubj ect :

(''23 I:idland Plant Units 1 & 2, Job 7220,

24 Mainistration ruilding Foundation.

.

. Luzod Reporting Service 'EA'

l.afayette Buddine ' 3M40 k.rthuntern Hwy.Suite MO 962.]176 Suite 2:0Detroit. \fichigan 482:6 Farmington Hith, .\fichigan 49018

._

.

1 Cettlement, uith handwritter notatienc,9

2 ucc narked f or identification.)

3 B Y ::K . C P. I"".", :

'

4 0 Io that your hcnduriting?

e . .... v.s . e

G n Thece are your initicle?

*

7 7t You bet.

'

G This crce f rcn your fi.l oc f ron the ."reeCom c2 Inf orr.aticr.~'

O lce requect.

10 T- Il you tell te th7t ic, that's correct.

"hc tecticony uhich you gcve come yecer ago before tne1' ^

|licensing boa rc:, that was tectincny given in the Sten c212 i

13 the receipt of E::hibit " 2?l, vac it not?,

l' l. That' c correct.

i

13 I :T. GCCLD: Objection, ac far c0 uhet in tLj -

.

10 faca means.

,, - , . , . . - . . . - , , ,_ 1.!._. - , .. .

h ' hen you testified you tectified af ter you receivcd the12

i10 e::hibi t, right?

.

I 20 Ti That' c correct.

!

| 21 O Let's nou turn to e::hiilt P:: Dechtel 232, which in a|

,

boring log, and tell ec uhat it ic about thec docuacnt221 -

|('''

23 that leads you to conclude that Consumerc deliberately|

| 24 withheld inf ormatien f rca you about the f.dminictratieni

l

1

AESLuzod Reporting Service 3mso h.orthwestem Ilwy.Lafayette Buildine9 6 2 * I l '' 6 Suar 2xSWte hM .

Detroa, .\lichigan 48226 Farmington Hith. .\fichigan 48018

.

.

1 Buildinc cecdc beam fcilure?

2 1. "ell, in Jhly apparently thic boring, ct lecct the

3 document purports, that it vac completed on July 22nd,

I 4 1977. The diesel fuel cil ctor:gn tank ucre identified

E a c c rM ei.y-rela tc c ctructur0. The rcaultc of th:

5 penetration tent indiccte very nimilarly poor matcrial: in

7 that location; likeuise, on the bac:.siCe of that doc'uten t

P. it has cimilarly peor material dcun to c depth of came 1? -

C some 20 f eet.

10 Coes this docunent, either cice of it, ha'/ e c ni^

11 relatienchip to the administration yrcde bcam f ailur e?

12 A The cdministratien? Cnly in that it indicct c nn cr:c of.

13 deficient material, uhich vac hnovn, at least :c rec 5tal,,

14 in July o# 10" ...

15 1 f.rc the diccel fuel cil ctor:.gc tan %c on top of or 'ti:hin

15 the 7:Q:.inice r a ti:n "uilding?

17 7 "o. That' c the ricnific nce cf it. I' no: ~ : c f. . !- '

,

1 M:aini strati cn "uildine. It's uell beyond i t, in Ji ce :i: .

12 at least the knouledge that there was poor mateti01 at

-,

| 20 other locatienc on that sito ac ocrly oc July of 1977

21 unbeknown *. to the MRC ct that time.

22 0 Do you knou what knculedge concumere Feuer campany hcd ofi g

| 23 ::hibit techtel 232?i

24 A "o, I don' t.

Luzod Reporting Service * '4 #4

3C640 A.orthurstern %yLafay.or BuildmeSuar MO 962 1176 Suite 2:0Detroa. \fichigan 48:26 Farmington Ihlls. Alichigan 48018

, .

1 C Doer the notation at N bottom of the c::hibit L,.1-312 c.nd..

.

2 on the other cide D.1-311 and the rcvision numbers on the

3 right-hand corner indicate to you that this decunent ua:

', - acde part of the PSAn by Conseners Pouac Compary?4

5 A It reclly doecn' t w; uhether it' c part of the P.?;c. cr

5 not, l'ha t it' c a revicion to I ce n' t cIl frcr that

7 cocument. - It has everything you say.

1:R. GOCLD: I don' t wan: to bre:::, but I doI-

9 vant to broch. It' c time about f or lunch. I d o n ' t ',t a n t

10 to cut you off in the middle of something, but I necd to

11 adjourn about neu.

12 *:n . E n I:;t n : "hy don' t uc ccmc b:ch, it's,

13 ten to 12:00. "c can ec t at -- the Ebbetc Grill ic very

1 '. nico and very f act, i'*it cccc br.ch :t c ua r te r to 1 : 00 ?.

15 I:E. CCCLD: Fine ',rith ac.,

15 "'i: " I T.' ".r F : Fine.|'

.

17 (1. ':r ief r ece tr ua: hal- durir-

10 the prcceedings.)

l? "Y ::n. Cr.I"Dn :

20 0 ::r. Gallagher, there is one document left renaining of

21 those which vac celectce frem all cf the e::hibits

22 icantified during your depocition ac having relivency to

(.~ ' 23 the sano line of c:uestionirig I vac acking be: ore lench.,

24 I:R. GCOLD: As I indiccted before, the.

.

..-''-'Luzod Reponing Service 30940 A.orthurstem Huy.lafayrne %ddint

Suhrh10 96?*III6 Sw * 220

Dtmt, \fickitu 48:26 Fami"tras HJk .\fichieu 48018.

, __

)

i 1 record f rca cy c:: amination of I:r. hl. lasher I don' t.

2 believe inaicctec that at all. I don' t think you've

3 covered all the c::hibits :'r. Gallagher indiccted on direct

1 4 bore on his t.cstimony concerning nondisclocuro of the

5 A6ninictratien '.uilding,

n . ,. . m.. C .3. I ., ., .2 t. . .s . . .

7 0 Let E.e direct ycur cttentien to 5:' CPC 530 end ach you

.

O uhet is it in thic Cocument .7hich indic .:c c to you ::. t.

0 Concumers did not, that Concuters intentienclly f ailcc: : '.

10 cicciccc the Administretion au11 dine grcdo Sr:at f r il tr <: r.c~

11 the Iuclect Reculator/ Concissien?.

12 A "ell, thic document ref ereneca a ntriber of other

13 documente, at least in ha idw ritten f orn, 6 :cd Janucry 13,

'

14 1079, January Eath, 1970, :'a r ch 2 o 5, 197 ': , all 6e:11rr

15 vith the rc::ueet f or ctandcrd ;cnotr. ion tutt r in the

15 crec cf the Diccol Generator ruilcine, "hich shor Q.:. ,

17 th c:r c f tr. : the ".cctbcr 1 77 ~cen:'l : : n o r t. 1' i

-.*1

10 SQ:,inistration ruildir.c. Taa t in ecnn:ction uit! the ;

>

15 other documente incicete at leact to oc that thcre vac

20 some prior knowledge.

21 0 to you knou when the han6..'ritten not .: ions on CPC 5 3 C *.mec',

i

22 uritten?.

|'

23 A I:o , 7. don' t.1 .

| 24 0 Co you knou whether the uriter of the dccument had any |\

.

! !

l .,n

| Lu:od Reporting Service +=lafayette Building 34910 %.rthurstern (fuy.,

| Suito MO 962 1176 Swg, 2;o(ktrat. \fichigan 482 6 Farme.ete Ilills, \fichdan 48018

.

-_ _ - - - - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ - _ _ _ _ - _ . .

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ -

-

.

1 knouledge prior to the date he put thece hanQir4* tun

2 notatienc on there of the varictic document he'; alluded

3 to in henCuriting?|

'4 t, "ell, let me nahe thic connection, annuer it this uny.

5 The writer of the document, !'r . I'or n, is the :Siv 7ecli -;

ct Accurcnco civil auditor. !* n ' t on ci te da ily. The

7 A6ministrat.icn Building in Auguct of 1977 requirec the

C re ovc1 cf the grcon bean, in Deccaber of IC77 *echtcl,

9 Jutc out a report. It' c dif ficult, if not inrossitic, fcr

10 me to believe that ::r . "crn wac no: c'. .r ; cf t:r

11 t.ainistratien Buildin(;, literally uithin viu ef the Cr0

12 i o*ficec, on cite doily and heu one can b- : qu:lity

'

13 Accurance auditor and to be on the confinet of hic

17 office in the conduct of his c'utits and nor kn.n of t'.o

.

15 Maini:trr tien 'uilding ic, in my mind, r.cIr ir.M cciL13

13 U ". . C."IE*n: '?culc you re the c.tetticn,,

1

17 71'mce? !!,

i

13 (The requected orticn of thu,

19 recore ucc re:d hcch ac fel.'c.:::

20 "q. On 'fou kncu uhether tha writer

21 of the. document had any knoul,dgeI.

22 prior to the datc he put thocors~

23 handuritten not::icnc on there of1

24 the variouc documentr he' c alluded.

..~ ' ' 'eLukod Reporting Servier X840 %-hwirrn l{wy.lafayette B.uldute

ye (,30 962 1176 Suar 220Detroit. \fkhigan 4C.m ' Farmatton Hdh \fWhwan 4'i018

_ _ -_

,_ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _

*.

'I

li to in handiriting?")

2 E Y ::E. DEII: D:

3 0 Can you ancuor that question?..

f, 4 !A I believe I did.

5 0 You have na other :ncuer?

6 T. L'o .

7 C You dealt uith ::r. !!cen on a- continuouc bacic f or a i. cried

0 of cccc montha, dic you not?

D l. 00f cnd on.

10 Co you have en opinien ac to hit. degrei of canceiv n ico:^

11 attentien to hic job f or the period yce dealt ui:h hir?

*

12 ?, Yec..

13 0 i'ha t is that opinion?,

.

14 ts I:e appeared, at lecc: in perceptien, as tcinn .

|'

15 conscientiour in hi: job.

15 0 DiC ect f erm an opinien ac to his benecty c.'d intocrit';W

17 { 'then ycu d. ult uie 1:i=?

1 ri ?. ::o: c pe cif icc11y .I'1.n n Doec that ecan you 'cr ed in scre uay other than .

20 trecifically or you had no opinion?'

21 A I respected him as a prof occional doing a job and vice

22 vorca. I really uten't evaluating hic honesty or i

<~t'

23 integrity at that time. I:y function uas to revieu and

24 determino the circunctanecc currounding the Diecel

'

i

Lusod Reporting Service 450lAfnette Bailding 3n940 M.ethurstem Huy% to M O 9h2 II?6 Suar 2:0(ktrut, \fichigan 48226 famsneton l{slis, \fichigan 48018

t.

1 Generator Duilding and any related inf ormatica to thr.t and.

2 c::pected i:r. !!orn to eccperc.tc vith the fullect :: all

3 Consumer s and rechtel poopic j ointly. "aced on the

! 4 docuannts you' ve put in f ront of no it's quectiencbic nou

5 in my rind.

Pho vec the highect re procenta tive you met of Cor r orr5 9

7 ?cuer Company during the cource of your involvement with

: ::idland?

0 ? Prchably the Pecj ect t'a na ge r , :'r . :*c el cy . I don' t r ::c .11

1C if uc interviewed '.r. ' cu oll .

11 0 You met him at c meeting in Glen ::llyn, didn't you?

12 1. Yeah. I don't believe ve conducted a f errt.1 ir.t c rv i c', if

13 I ronceber. !'r . Houell unc the Senier Vica-?rttident for

14 the ::idland Proj ect and.ct lcact chairtd certe.in ncetinc;

15 r.nd functienc.

15 You tcctified the c hor dcy that ::r . i'or r. i ndi ca ti. ' tr ' fee^

17 th .t he hc:' haf cene f ranraticn ' i :': ;$. 0,1 : 2 2 : '.* _ 'i :.

If Consuner and while not c ucting you c:::etl'j th, th r u n ti

10 your tcctiacny, I believe, ua: he was j u ping u;. and fcun

20 to get conecne's attention and he fcilc6 to get it. '' a.

21 you recall that general tectir ony?

22 A Un- h a .

(..." 23 0 Lid he tell you who it was that failed to aive him the

24 attention he ucs ceehing?

.

'' 01Lutod Reporting Service M \.*'th u'M"" U"T-Lafayrne BwidungSui o MO 962.]176 Suae 2 0t ,

mag, traigan .ag:c farmington Hills \ldtgan 48018_

, .

1 a ::r . ! arguglio . I believe. ,

2 C' 7.nybody elce?

3 A 1:ot that I recall.

', 4 Q And was thic statement made to you during the course of

|T # prc;>arction of 70-207

i A I don' t reccl1 if it uac then er rub?c"uent te 'erch of

| 1970, or '79 rather.7

'

|ODid you confrent I'r . Farguglio with thc alleinticn?'I

o. It wacn' t an allegaticn.r

1C 0 S ta tement ?

11 A It was nerely --

12 |0 A lament?

13' A It va: cerely "r. I?orn e::?reccing hic continucue'

t

14 " fructrction in getting attention on a contir.ucut Jroblen.

15 based on hic audit:. !!e ucc not getting tha c::enticn ner

19 the cor cetive action th:t une reell" in lin y.

71? per viou that ec nn inror:cr.: p r ohl -- ?17 c

10 | 1, "an:gement problen, cqrtainly.

10 0 Of concern to you?

20 A Ye c.

21_C But not of sufficient concern as to ::r. *arguglio ac to

22 the truth of the ctatement?,>.

I23 t ::o..

24 2. CCOL D: Coulc. you read that quectica

.

Luzod Reporting Service' 052lafortte Buildine a'640 %rt,untern fluySuar MO 962.]]?6 Sua, oDetroit, trichiram 48226 farmington Ihlis, %chizan 48018'

.

.

0

1 back?

2 (The rcquested portion of the

3 record was read back as f olleue:

'' 4 "G. Dut not of suf ficient concern cs

C to ::r. "arguglio ac to th; truth of

G che tatement?")

7 DY"n. DRI""n:-

3 0 "o , no. But no: of cufficient cor.ccrn to yeu to c h .:r.

O "arguglio about thc truth of the otctr. rent? De vet

10 understand my cuecricn?

11 A Yeah, I understand.

12 0 f.nd your encuer uce it ur.c not of suf ficient concern to.

13 you to ach hic?.

14 A no. C.u.ed on cur invectigation at lacrt my c?inient:ce

15 that there va cicarly a ncnegement probler in th.

10 Connutare er:anizatien rcgardine che coils gronicnc.

17 ru you j u t li: it r :t tith :. "crn'- .:t : : . r n : ;.-^:

,10 toch it no further?

lb ? .I toch it further within the PRC.

20 0 To whom?

21 A To my supervicion and the director of the .".egion III

22 cffice.

(''23 7 Uho was your cupervision?

24 T. l.t that time it wn: -- there va a niitch but it va ::r .

.

"#3.eLusod Reparting Service

lafayette EL.ldung 3n640 +\orthu'slem hwy962 1176 Suur LnSur hw.

Demu, \tykigan tag:s Farmwon Hdis. AlWhigan 48018,

.

#

1 IIcischman and/or I:r ?iorcli and branch chiefc at 61fferen.

2 tinec 'end !:r. !*cpplcr c:: negicnol Director.

3 n Did you speak directly uith !:r. ::eppler concerning thic?

/ 4 7. 1.nd c::procsed my continued dif ficulty uith tPc Consenorc'

5 t'cnccenent I guer-

5 ^ Uhat ucc i:r. !!eppler's recponce?'

7 A I' don' t recall.

3 o "cu got a lot of vivid recollecticn about c Ic: cf thint .

9 You don' t rene:aber what 'r. !!c ppler tol6 you chout t',i c,.

1C !:r. Gallagher ?

11 A I really don' t recall uhat hic reaction ucc at that coi n t. .

12 I believe he did call in at that point in titc.o :'r. Jin.

'13 Coo::, uho ucc "ict-Frecident of tho :'idland Proj ec .

. 14 r eplacing I r. "cuell 2t that tine, and in f act haf 7221

15 and other !*TtC people c::precc our ccncern ui:P ::lil:u.J.

10 annecament to ::r. Cook, Jim Cook that iE.

17 nid ycu in cny rarcrt "ou "repcre2, 7 ";-12 c r 7 ^ '''' c r : :/;''

,

10 other official cocument priparcd by vou or in uhich yc.

19 participated, state that I'r . : torn or anyone circ ct hi;.

20 1cvel uac cenplaining tnct thcy coulu not,ccc the_

21 attention of note senior people up the line on quality

22 natters?.<t#

23 A Uhen I say attention, nunhor one, I nean it's not~that

24 they didn' t look at it but the corrective acticn to

.

.

Luzied Reporting Service A5?lafayette Building 30840 k.rthuntem Huy.Suite Mo. 962.!)i6 Suur 220Detrat. \fichigan 48:26 Farmingto n Hdis, \fichizan 48018

,

-_.

1 preclude and correct rcot ccuces. "* s f ructra ting ::r. Porn,

.

2 for c long, long period of time.

3 G Given the modification that you --

,( 4 7. ':'here's c dif f erence betwoon attentien vercus taking

5 acticn.

"h:tever it unc that you though c !~r. :*orn uct telling : cu,5 -̂

7 did you ever document it in any report that you . ace to

0 anyberiy in eriting ct the TEC?'

f a "o, I don' t believe co. Our repor re uere cf e technic.1

10 nature rather then a r:cnagerial nature.

11 C Docc that mean you had no recronci' ility fer conveyingc

12 thic? -

13 ?. !:c, he hcd --,

.

14 . "o you, not uc.^

15 A I certainly hcd rcc*;cncibility in ec:vgying t!.cr to "'C

13 :anagarent.,

i

1 a. _ .r. !. .; : ';cu harrC thc. r:: t. cent u h-f Cifn' t au .' ;17 -

"'

,

-.

13 ::cuell's of fice anc confrcn hin ui:b it?

I f' ?. I have no response to that.Ii

20 C "hy didn': you cch Er. "cueil uhat he thought cf it cr tc i

21 invectigate it?

22 7. I have no responce to that.

k 23 Q Did you knou the name of the Procident of the ccmpany et

24 that time?

A50'

Luted Reporsing Servicefafayeur kWg 30940 %ethurstern Huy.

Suar h*a 962*1II6 . Suite 2 0.

l_ .knnt. Michigan 482:6 Farm'nfton Hsils. \fditan 4%8

'

. _ _ _ _ _ .

.

:1!

l 7. Ye c, I certainly did, j4

2 o Did you ever cech to talk to him about the ridiand ?lant?

3 A Uo. ]*

,,4 0 Uere you ever in the building where hic cf fice was !

5 located?11

5 7 Ue vere in I;idland hecdguarters. I pr e s ume h e ' s i n -- !i

7 o In Jochcon headquarterc, :'t . Salby? ||

3 7. Jachcon, that's correct..

9 0 Did you ever talk to anybody empicyed by or reprocentincj|

10 the Cou Chemical Compaay ccacorning the rid 1:nd ?lan:7

11 7, "cVer, up until I:r. Goold. !:

12 0 I' m not talking about Mr. Goold.

13 A Today who is reprecenting Dou.1

14 0 "as anybegy f rca Dou listening to your tectn.ony uhon you

15 testified at the licensing hearingc?

16 A I would not be abic to identify anyone f ect Onw. |

17 r I'm not sure I undcretend the fittincticn ycu mada P' tuner

1r the inspection that you conducted in I think Auguct an6

10 September of 197 3 and tho' invectigation. 'I think at

20 different points in your tectire.ony there secac to be

'

21 different nuances and I wonder, is there a di-?forcnce i

22 between the inspection and the investigatica anc if sov(~

2; uhen did onc end and the or.her begin?

2 '. 7. The initial fcilcu-up to the 50.55 : t ubn i t t a.' by

- |

S

Lutod Reporting Sernce ES33a940 k.rthuntern lluy.lafvette BuiWe

Swte AM 962 1176 Suste 2,M

Detrat, \fichyan LC6 Farmutztm Hills, \fichigan +9018

_ - _ _

, _ _ - - _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ -

1 Consumers wac parf orced by me for the colo purpoco of jm

2 setting a handle on uhat' going on at "i'dland in the art:

3 of coils and rcport back to regional c:nagement come

I' 4 preliminary facts, figures and also obcervationc of ry con

5 and based on that prollainary information it ucc the

5 pogien III's di rection to embark on c f crc .1 invc triej tion

7 as tc how lcng and under uhat circunctancec cnd clro to

O rec 11y, ucre importantly at that tine, lecen he.7 conething

9 Os big ac thic can go on and not be de:ccted up to thic,

10 point in tice.

11 0 i' hen did that cccend phace begin?

12 A During the no::t subcequent inspecticn after that first

13 one. I' m not cure of the e::act dates but there was an '--

14 if I comember, I cpent .a ueek up there. I believe

15 it's perhapc acybe f our days, which I brought bcch the

1G preliminary findingc, reported then tc regicncl ma:mconcnc

17 :n6 then tone vech af ter ucre directed te ce b:.c!: u; - M

13 do'a more thorough invectigaticn, intervieuc and, rcc117, *

10 that' c uhat defines uhether or not ue' re doing an

20 invectigation, when ue start sceting into the

21 interrogation of people. I:ycelf, not being an

22 investiga:cr of sorts, other people being tr:ineC in.-,u.

23 investiga ti on, "r. Phillip ucc appointed and I vac hic

24 technical reprecentativo.

i .

!

,

051Lusod Repo, ting Se,vice 3M40 k.rthuntern IIwy.lafayette kidingSuite MO 962 1i?6 Suae rc'

.

{ Detroit. Slickisu 4826 Farmintim ({ dis, Sfichieu 48018

1 C Uhc was the profeccional invect'igator?,

2 A !:r. Phillip.'

3 0 Uho vac the third percon in the team?

.I 4 A George !!a::well acconpanied us only on certain dcyc.

5 0 Ler no chcw you UnC SG anc' nec if that refr:ches your

5 recollection at to when the invectigction ctacc cf thic

7 nattar began..

3 A It cppearc to be accurate.

9 n can you juct ctc te the dc te for the record ac to uhen ycu

10 believe the investicaticn c:;90 began?

11 A 3ecu . on Decouber 11 th.r

12 0 10/07

13 A '. E 7 3 , and ended I: arch 5 th,197 0. ::c*.7 ev e r , egain, tha,

.

14 inspection which Consumers Pcwor conducted, if .I r :.t enba r.

15 correctly, in September er late Auguct really vac c

1G carry-cver into thic c:: cept for a direction to do an

17 in'rectigr tion rete tire oc.rly in Sc nh.,r. I .o n, n,

13 uere gathering information and tuch of what is in thi;

19 report ic a take-cff frca the initial increcticn report .

20 0 Uhen you launched the fermal invecticacicn did you tell

21 Consumers Pcwor Cenpany it had now become an

22 investigation?/"

' L23 A 'le c . Ecw ev e r , I mean, ac f ar ac :'nc ic concernec ue'

|*

24 e::p ' et the came infornation and ccoperaticn frcn a

! .

|Luzod Reporting Service A-n' -

3MIO h.orthuestern lluy.lafayette BuildinsSwtr MO 962.I!76 Susie : oIktrut. \lichigan 48226 Farminata flills .\fichiem 48018.

L e

r

1 lice'nsee uhethcr _it be on inspection or investigacien, in

2 terns of information.

3 0 You conducted appro::imately 50 intervieus as part of your

f'' 4 inspection /investication; it that correct?

5 T. If that' c uhat the repor t crys.

6 & "ero notc0 taken at the intervieuc by you and your

7 colleaguec?

O 7. I believe at that tino "r. Phillip diu take conc not::.

9 0 Did you?

1C ? :'ot too many,

11 G "hat happened to them?

12 A They were basically memorialized in the report. a

f.

13 0 5' hat happened to then af ter that?.

14 A I don' t perconally keep noter of nectings.

15 n roec that mean you threw them out?

16 ?> If I don' t have then I guecc they' re gone.

* "are any rccordince ncde o f a n-j of thc ce inte rvi;"* ?17

1:: ?. ''o t that I recall.

,19 ? Did you become auare of any obetruction placed in your

20 pa th by Consumer s Pcuer Compo..f in intervievinc e ny of

21 their employeec?

22 A Mell, when you say obstruction what do you mean, 1cching.cs"

23 us out or locking then in?

24 ? Anything at all. T'ere people not precente(. te you, were-

eenLutod Reporting Service y mo_y y ~,;, y ,-

962.I176 Suite 220S. ate M ODetrost. \fichigan 48226 Famsneton Hdis, Michigan 48018

f o

?- .e

1 yon rec;uested to meet uith -- let's ctart with that. If,

'2 you enhed to meet with co'mcene, did that sencone get

3 produced by the company to meet with?

f.' 4 t. Ye s.

5 n "ou tectified, I believe */ccterday, that you bocene cuare

5 of techtel's attorneyc meeting uith Cechtel cmplcycet

7 bef ore their intervious and Abriefing them af tstuntdc?

3 is Thtt'S Cc t r e Ct ,

9 O Did that happen with respect to Concemerc Tc':'r cmr.lc'recE?

10 7. I don't %ncu if they ucre brief ed bef ore or not.

11 r- You didn't cec that; is that' correct?

12 A Our observation --.

.13 0 I' m j uct e sking uhat you know. ,

14 1, of Loth concumers and Dechtc1 uns that for the moet part

15 everyonc var very 7ucrded. That inforer.tien uc" not

1C v ol un t c e r :- t' cpenly and 2recly unleas thay c:!-: c u' * i c :n .'

17 It ca: very Zerm:1 0 ti.:y c .2:cr : ' c u: r t ic th - * " ' -

13 ached anS not much acyond that.

10 and our viev, Jctry's and my vicu a: thLt.

20 time, was that the whole f er=ality of Concumerc anc.

21 Bechtel providinc attorneyc and briefine cnd debriefing

|

22 them had some chilling effect on the3. crenness to at

C": 23 least volunteer information and in some. cases scae of thc

24 intervicuenc actually wrote verbatim the cuccticn doun 30-

|.

Lu:od Reporting 3rrnice Il 0lafayette ik ddint 30840 \.orthuntern fluySuite MO 962 11;*b Suu, ggo

.

Detroit, \fichisan 48226 Farmintron lidis, .\fichigan 43018

.- .-

_ _ _ - .

,

1 that they could carry that back to the attorney for.

2 debriefing.

3 0 Are you scying nou that you did have perco.hal knowledge

C 4 th a t. Consur..ers employecc 'rore brief ed and debrie:'nd, that

5 Conrunerc rc.p.1cvaes perc briefed or debrinfed by their

C attorncyc?

7 A I can't ' ncu in f act Concuaerc peoplc ver . I h n c'. in

'

0 fcct Cochtal portc,nul vers.

I ucnder if you can pull cut frca the cecch I'r. :'opFl a r ' ;0 '

rc' ort of Pebr':ory 15, 1970. It ' c ":'C G O . Chic i. c10 ;

11 document which ::r. Coold introduced thic nerning :nf ached

12 you cone quectionc about and I'U like to cci you ccub-

'

13 quections about that cs ucll.-

14 The cover note f rcn ::r. ::eppl er to :*r.

15 Thornburg ct:tec n,c folic,.'c: "Oho attached report, ubica. .

15 reprecents Pegica III'c cverall acccccrent cf t'.e l'i fl .mfc

17 conct,r ecticn ir aj ect to date frcn a re gul a tor,' :t r ' ; ir ,

10 uns diccccced with ycu and reprecentc tiv: f rc" your s ta:.'f,

12 tir.T and OELO during our meeting at E0's en February 5,

20 I S7 9. During :Lat necting it ucs conclui 6 th .: taic

21 report should be crevided to OCLD f or trcacuitting to the

22 Licensing noard and the various partier to the hearing.".-V

23 Did you pcrticipate in the necting on February 5, 1070?

3. . ,.o .,

. e i. ..

'; * 1"Luzod Reporting Service 308SO %.rth "*'''''' IIvy-

*

Lafdyette R.aldint$ , ige a o 962.I176 Suite 220

Detrott, \fschigan 48226 Fannutaton Hnlis, Whngan 48018*

- - - - - _ _ - _ _ _ _ - _ - _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ - _ _ - _ _ _ _ - _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ - - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ - _ - - - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ -

.

1 0 Did you have any input into this report, tinc 627

2 I T.c I nontioned earlier the t'. o pagea that I participatr.6

3 in.

4 0 Did you rend the final report befort it vac tranc.ittad.,

5 frc !:r . "cpplcr tc Er. Thornburg?

6 7, I belicve I did.

7 o Did you reine with ': . "e ppl e t, 2ny obj ecticnn to e ny rt

0 of the reper':7

0 A I uould have to 90 throuch anc -- I dor' t recall.

10 r "hy don' you take a noment end glance threech it?

11 A Iny cpecific pa r t that you voulc like to dircct ne to l' c

12 be glad to.

13 n "hy don' t you Icoh at page nino of the report, bearing

14 Cates nunbor 012020C5, "The tautine inupecticn progrer hac.

15 not identified cn unucual nunber of enf orcor.ent t rer. Cf.

15 the colcceed naj or events deceribe.d :beve, only on.: ir

17 dir:ctly neributsb1: :o "ccica I n 94?rre-]e r a c -iv : q10 ( Ca d.- el d cplicint) . The others ucre id:ntified by thc

10 licencco end reported throuch th e de f ici e r.cy r a po r t. CyLtta

20 (50.55 (2)). The "idland data for 107G-70 la tabul ata.

21 b el cw " , and then there's a tabulaticn. Did you have any

22 quarrel uith the accuracy of that statement?..

( ''23 A I didn't verify it nor have any cuartcl uith it.

24 0 "ould you turn to page ten. And ncybe to cave tire rti.d

Luzod Reportir g Service 4G23G910 %.rthurstern lluyla fay.ette Buildint

%ste tuo 96:.]]i6 Suu, ;o

Detrut \fiikigan M22n farmsagtm lhlis. Alichiera 2018

- ~ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ . _ _ _ __ _ ___ _____ _

O

1 the tuo parcgraghc to yourself beneath paragraph si::. .

2 beginning uith the words, "a;.though the limacee' c Quality.

3 Assurance progran", read that paragraph and the ner.t

! 4 paragraph and tell to if you raiced objection to either..

5 I:r. ::epplcr --

G 7. I didn't raice any objecticn.

7 0 i'ould you look at page 11, cecond to last parcgrcph. "hy

3 don' t you recd thct ec yourself bcgint.inr; t i d, the "''h.

D r.III Office of Inspectica". Cell m '.thother you riired

10 cny chj ecticn tith ::r. :eppler cencarning thct?

11 . ..n ..o.

Turn to pagc 13, the cumnary cf conclu:.icns, the sacend12 ^.

13 , f ull pcragraph beginning uid. the uced: "f ollo. inc; each of

16 these problem periodt", recd that and the'c:ragrish alter.

15 thct beginning "the ev .lucticn both by the licenrce" ent.

16 tell re if you raised any quectionc ui:P "r. ::epple.r

17 conc *rning tho accor2c" of.'Secc c:r.cl ur i en r ?l'

_3 ., ..c ..a o

10 1 came quection uith respect to the lac: paregroph on page.

20 13,

21 A It wasn' t mine to access that.

22 C Are you aware of anyone within negion III who did rt.iser

M

23 any objectienc to all or any portion of this report?

24 A 7'o t that I' m aware of. "eep in mind thc: :'r. ::epplcr he n

.-"'3Luzod Reporting SersiceLafayette Buildine 30940 Northu'''"'' Hw)-

962 1176 Suur 220Swir hwDetroit \fschigan 49226 Farmington Hills. .\fichigan 49018

.

__ __ _,

,.

1 that recponsibility of naking that conclusion. !:y a r m- in.

2 the crecific civil engineering aspectc of the plant he

3 undarctcod clearly .ero -- he under:tood electl" whnt ny

4 vicus ucre on that. I'r. Ecppler and only ::r. Zopplcr can'

5 nahe the brcad generclinaticn of thc. ::attner.t i . ' c-

6 conclusion.

7 t! Thank you. Uhat you' te saying then is- that :'t . Pas;.-lcr*

a h':c to drau inf ernatica f rcn a variety of ccerce s ont '; o u

0 vere only one of then; ic that ccrrect?

10 7 Thr.t ' c cor r t et.

.nd he dictilled and evaluated and node a juCc.nur t c ca t:' l r'

12 lots cf thiacs frca his cubordinates of unca ycu uerc cna?.

10 A That's cor rect.

14 . Did you have any other activities during 1.ugus t or^

15 September er October that ucre tchinc up your tir . i- .'. 7 9 |c

\

15 thet prevented you f rcn jumping ri' ht irto the "i{l nt,

17 c s i c v.c:'.t ?

'

10 'l I had let: cf other facilitiac tr.;; I ut cupscrce t- s-

10 trying to perform inspectionc on.

20 0 "ac there anytain; else becidcu your in:pectica ac ;vizies

21 that took you aucy f rca the I:idland Proj ect?

22 A Mo. At that time -- what uas the date, 1970 or 107 E ?-

'23 0 Auguct in 1973 Let ne chou you your rectne that wa:

24 narhed as an e::hibit in a deposition four yearc ago, and

Lutod Reporting Service 4Galefayette Bmiding 30810 \.orthuestern fluy.Suar MO 962.])i6 Suar 2:0Detrost. \fichieu M:26 Farmsneton Hsth, Aluchigan 49018

.

1 uhy don' t uo mark this ac an e::hibit today. Let' c mark. ita

2 ac Depocition Exhibit D 203.

3 (Lepositicn C::hibit l'c. D 203,

4 necume rf Eugene J. Gallagher,

5 vac L'.arhed f er iConrifica tion.)

n - v. ... Dn. y . . .n. ..s. .m ... -

7 6 That ic your recume? .

; 7. Chat's correct.

9 : vendar if vou ccul6 turn to the cecond free uhcrc "cu^a .

10 list your items of additicn:1 trcining and I Circct your

11 at:entica to the f ourth and fif th incnc, cuality T.cour anec

12 Course, rnC August I?73, 40 hours; no::t enn, :'onCc c t r uct iv :

13 I E::amina ticn 7.nd CcGe c, nochuell Internaticnal if 7 0, l''n

1.' hours. Do you rocc11 attendinc sccsiens totallinc 15n

13 heure during ?,uquet cf lf7P?.

15 : ~.R . C'CLD: That c; ue sti cn a s s un e- '1' ''a |

17 3 Scurt tcch ;1:cc duri-~ '.gu't. .

,

. .;.. ,- ., r . .r. ,. ,s. ,. a. . 3 . . . , .. . . o. . . ~ u r. . . . i c . . i~c3. u... ~ . - u ,

19 calculatcd to adduce.

2C A I have te go Mck and chech the training,

n .3 - o. 3. . L- . . - ., ...i.,.. _4 ~ts.. m

22 0 "nore were the courcoc?

C23 A The Quality I.ssurance course was conducte/ in Glen Ellyn;

2 /. :'ondectructive E::aminc.-icn cour re va given in Colu-!:ur,

" 0 '..

Luzod Reportirng Servicelafvette Building 30 W \.orthurstern fluySuste MO 962.I176 Suite 2 0Detroit, \fse!<ican s c:n Farnuncton fik \fichigan 48018

E

,. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

.

1 Ohio, at the Universi*.y of Ohio.

2 0 The cource at. Columbus, did you go there for a period of

3 ucchs? -

.

, .

'. 4 T. Three vecks.i'

-5 0 *'ou etayed th:rc f ull tine?.

-. . , e s.a c. .

7 C Uith your f a:. illy?

' y T.'yrelf and other "PC inspectur r.E A Mo, j us t J,

0 Can ycu quantify in the crocccct terms thn ner. .:c t cf^-

10 Cocunento ycu 1cohed at perconally to preinre 7' ??? 71C

11 you icoh at docens or hundred: or thousands?

'

12 7. Probably hundreds.

13 0 7.nd how nacy total hourt of interviewing uculd ycu ec.y you

54 participated in? Again, I don' t c::pect preci. icn but I' n

15 trying te got a cence ucc it 00::a n of hourc, hen.' erd: cf,

15 hours of in:crviouc?

17 ?. T/ccrrgn, ycu kr.cu, n hour ' . r :e n pc r!.:.?:, ca_ ica. r,

l? cone ChCrtC..

'

If C "i th o ut in any vay denigrating your nencry, the congle::ity

20 of the issucc involved and thc dntail: and ntrhe r - n _.

21 personn and so on, heu vere you able te dirtill that all

22 into report 70-20 without come very caref ul notec?

b23 gather f rca uhat you cuid a f eu ninutec ago that you toch

24 sene very 'crief notec. Ic I correct in that? In that

Luzod Reporting Service 400Lafayette kidsne 3tB40 %.rthuntern Huy.Suar h30 962 1ii6 Suar 2:0&tnut. Michig"a M26 Farmsneton Hslls, Michigan al8

. . . . ..

.

1 antwer yoc?.

- 2 A 'les, and we tech docunent; or copice of (ocunents oc ve

3 felt they were inportant to the writing of the report.

f.' 4 C. Put you would acree, uculd you not, "r. Gallagher, that

5 having cpent, I think you ccid, 75 c: 0C ,trcent c2 your,

5 tine frcn .'.uguct 197 G through "arch of 197 9 uith n nuLj cet

7 which you had no previouc Jealings, that it ::161and, ncacc

0 of all ';indc of people and dr.tec and borint 1cyc cnc sc

0 on, that's a rather compler tach, is it no;t?10 7. !ct rc lly.

11 'fou did not think it vac co.rple::?^

12 A rot tcc nuch.

13 0 So it une conparatively sin?le f or you to nccir.ilatc all

'

14 t.he inf ornation and urite it dcun? .

.

15 .; reing f:niliar uith the subj ect a nd t.i 9 lihe it ucc not.

15 til that di2ficult.I

\-

i

17 '.' c t n n ' . ::2? n ny trouble ::r :>-de r i nc * ?ho c.- i d : :. ::' '

,

.I

10 uht: C2te ic attribute.bic to uhat scrcon ani to on?

19 '. "ell, v2 veren' t uriting a bicgraphy of the :'idland

20 2r oj ect. "a vere isolated to a couple of par ticul ar-

21 things that we needed to get infortaticn on, also, the

22 purpose of attenpting to identify rcot causec co that thic

23 ucult not continue on ac it hac, as it did..

24 O It it possible f or an invectiga ticn cuch as that uhich you

.

00'Lusod Reporting Streice 3mso \.orthurs: rn lluy.isfayette BuildungSuar MO 962 11;*b Sust.' 220 |.

Detroa. \fschigan 48:26 Farmington Hills, Whigan 48018

_ _ _ _

1 ucro conducti"n to lead to criminal chattop?'

2- ?. It could.

3 0 Did you alert CP or T.cchtel people that there uac c

C 4 pocsibility of criminal charges being prossed against

5 then?

5 a I don' t recall. I c?rtainly didn' t. I don' t hnou if the

7 invectigator uho really leads the, or h is the tone cf tne

0 invectigaticn and the conduct of it, viv> th e r h e dic or

not.

"hen 'ou got ir"cived uirh ::idland ver you c'ec r < of r .1C ^

11 Garlier Order of the Licensing '', Card of the ':nC r rui rin ,

12 that all no, conf ormance reporta be cubnitted by Crn:.trerc'

13 2cuer en c monthly ba sic?,.

,'c, I vacn't..14 7. :

15 0 T.r : you av2rc cf that today ?

13 ?. I an.

, . . , . . . . . ,_...

....~. ..

.

, , e ,. .,, ..m ., - .

,

19 0 Let to chou you a docunent, uhich I'll ach the reporter,t

20 when he hac a frce coment, to mark ac Depo:,iticr ?:Wili:

21 234 and ach if that is a copy of an order entered by the

22 r.temic Saf ety and Licensing Appeal 'oard da ted !' arch U ,C'

23 1973, which in part on page 133 recuircc a nonthly.

24 nonconf orcar.cc repor t covering the previous month's ucrk.

.

'e .,e

Lutod Reporting Service '3mt0 %.rthuntern Huy.lafayette Buildine

Suar MO 962 IlI6 Suar 2:0Detrat, \fichigan 48226 Farmheton Ihlin, \fichigan 18018

*_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ___

,

1 to be filed by CP with the "nc, and tha t' c the paragrcph

2 f our on page 12G .

3 (Derocition 9::hibi t :io. D 204,

( 4 Atenic Saf ety Licencing Appeal

E rocre, : cracrendum and Order,

5 uc c ne rked f or it'e ntif icr ti on. )

7 '"1 !:R. 0*'.I:"'n

Dc you cco that?8 o.

C 'ic. c , I do.'..

10 C Eo I correctly ct .te s'ht t the order ray 2?

11 A In general ternc, yes.

" "culdn' t that he.ve been a nretty import:nt piece of12'.

13 inf ormaticn f or you to kncu about uhen you cte r tc6 ^ur;.

1.: inc:uiry about ridland, th e.t it, that all tne "Cnc ':rt,

15 filed uith th+ UnC?

13 ?. "c: particularly, no.

17 "h', net?^

1 ^.~

"bey' re en cite f or uc to 1cch ct if uc nccQd to.

Did you' over loo!. ct ther?1C ^ -

20 '. ':e looked at nany, many noncenf ormance reporte on ci rc.

21 0 Did you look at them all?

22 A I don' t believe ue 1cched at then all. "here'c literally

('' '23 thousands of them in all areas of work.

24 "hen did you diccover that Concemerc had been filinc cli'.

4

'DLuzod Reporting Sertsee MIO %.hwtern f(wylafayette Butlhg962 1176 Suite :20Suur MO

Detmit. Alichigan 6 Farminste ilslis, Whigan 18018_-___ -_______ __ 482:__ ____ .___. . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ____ _ . _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .___ -_- ___ _____ _ __

,

1 the !?Cnc uith the uhc?.

2 A I don' t reccll.

3 o t' hon did you find out cbout thic ordor?

( 4 A I really don' t rocc11. '

5 0 ''ho told you about it?

C A I don' t reccl1 that either. It vac totally cc:/>nic to 'ac

7 in 197 0.

3 0 I want to read you c quection f rcia fcur t .scir cry in four

0 depocitica tr. hen in "evenbar 1000 nad lct rce nut it 1' n,

1C setting cc you'll underctand what van bein<- schcf of vcu..

11 I?hy don' t I juct thew you the trcnacri.;t ana i nic h t. %e

12 eccier..

.

13 I'n shcuing you page 70 c2 yeur cbpocition

14 tranceript and I want to och you qt.arwicn abcut page

15 100. I'aybe you tant to go back to 0^.

10 " w e *.* c u h a d c chance tr Icch : it?

. . . . m. . me.,, e ~ .s*a.-

y .,....t._..

.

IP So ycu undccct:nc. the conte::t ?^

10 A I recall the c:: change.

20 o I want to ask yce whethat the encuer you gavi to a,

.

21 questien 7'n going to read to you is still accurate.

22 "C. '' hen you st rted your inspecticn cone,-

L.,23 time f olicwing Auguct of 197 0, did you ack anyone for

24 inf ormation uich regard to prior soil s increctient ?

.

,

Luzod Reporting Service 4?O308t0 \.orthuntern lluy.isfayetto Buildm.e

$unto MO 962' E I I6 Suite 2;M

Detrott. Alichigan 48226 Farmineton Hslis, Stichigan MIR

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .

. - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .

..

1 " t. , :fo I didn' t. "r.

- 2 In that true?

3 A Yec.

/*- 4 0 l'e):t que stion.

5 "O. CiG you concidc r that i.nf cr:c.ti v

3 important et 11 tc the vork you had bean doing?

7 "A. !?ot particularly. "

C Do vou etill .:elieve that?-

4

n,,

,e,,..,,- _

t n. . . n. . . .r. I . . ., n. . . r<. .:.< - -- .

.. .. .. ..e.,,. . .. .. . . . . .

11 (Depociticn ::hibit l'o. P 202,

12 First docunent frc:- Ir. Porn'.

13 leg,1 e :t theets nceti. ? notc c c'

wu,c, C. ^r 'O, 1"7^), '',' ~. . %'s ."..s . 'u : '+f,2 c. ... ~ ~ -

15 for idcntifica tion.),

i*. =.e. ..p pg w ..p 3. .. . ... ... . . . - . .

3 - .. .. . . . .7 c_,, . .-. i. . r , . . . , , . , . . ,

. . _ L, .,. . , , . . . . _ ...,

. . . . _ .. ._..s ...

- - . .. . . .. . .

1 '' c::hibi t ;epcsitien 2::hibi: D N2, '.'c. I e t :gl 2 :. do cun n:,

10 together t&ich did not ecne together but I *cn: to --h ,cu

20 about them. The fir:t ic one ch ot f rc Ur. "crn's lcc

21 and the second are minutec of a meeting hele. on rep: ..ser

22 2 8 th , 197 '3 . Uhy con' t you 1coh at both then let me cahrt~'

23 you a question.

24 I:?. . COCLD: "hile he's doint that, I belicva

e

''1Lusod Reporting Service 30820 %.rthurstern lluyLafayette Buddsn, ,

Suite MO 962 1176 Lao, 0

l)etmt, Michigan 4826 Farmington lidh khtaan 48018- - ___ __ . _ _ , --

.

1

.

1 you may have mistpoke and callec thi Ecpociticn "::hibit

2 202. I a30tne you meant Def endant's ."::hibit.

3 : n, DRI::On: Defendant Ocponition ?::hi'ait

, 2 v ,. .e.

.r. A,,uCLn. mi..,,.. . ,v ..n. . . . .

9 ' Y "'' . OCOLC:

7- G You'vc had a chanco to lcoh at that?

. have it 4n ny ,n-nc,e.n .t. .

.

S 0 I'r . Porn'O daily loc chect chcus, i n ti dl.1 c of ti - ?c gc ,

1C "Canc ched for neating note: 'ay 3. ' fili on ''cli? c c:' ' '~

11 fir:t ci te visit en C-20-7 0. " Sec ta a t ?

3. ec n . . , .....

.

13 0 And then tuo colunn: to the right of that i t; the

1 !- ctatcnent, "una given Cenc." ~'o y o u c e e that?..

15 a "n- h a ..

10 ro you rcc-11 receiving f rcr. s:r. I'orn en or ebc ut ~~c w.' .c^ -

:-. . . _ .._,.w.- .,- -

,3, _c e .

1......,...1...,- ,. .. -r ,s. .. . . . . ,,2 .. . v. . . . . - i.....u. s.

1 P. t':ll you that thic cet cf nctor corcc f ror your ?c rcerol

19 files at the 1*EC curcuant to the Freedon of InZerrJ:icn

20 *ct rcquest..

21 A ' hat was the question?

22 0. to you roccll receiving there notes f rcn Ur. !!ctr. on or

23 about recember 13, 19707

24 A "o , I don't.

Luzod Reporting Service 472lafayette Dudding 3%40 %rthurstern Huy.% e MO 962 IIIb Suite 220Detmt. \fschigan 48226 FarMinEton Hdis. \fschigan 48018

~.

elf

1 Q Uould you have any reason to doubt I:r. ! orn's Cta tt,mont in

2 this document?

3 I:.7. GOOLD: Obj ection, cells for speculaticn,

4 1. I really h:ve no -- I really have no reaction.

. . . . ,.- . 7. . . n. ..> . . . . . . ..-. .

to you rocc11 ever recing thecc ninuter bof er.~?G o

7 .1 I don't recall.

7 D Po you re'ebcr cchinc fer th;r? -

ren11y Con' t -- t! <0 L .T ached 2cr .' lot of focumente. T

10 cpecifically I don' t recall,

e11 0 ::r. Goold acked you a ceriot of ruestienc yecter e", nc:

12 yccterdcy, but tuo smehc ago beginning at page l<~ of your.

13 dopocition tranceript of tvo ..'cukc ecc.

14 "O. ' .' e r .: you tolu by any onc f r cr ^o;; t ur...r :

15 2cuer or N chtcl that r.hure v e r -: centlarment ; r c'il u . : -"

.

15 the Chlcrinatien -uilding <th an ycu botan your

17 1r :::ig tien On tha proj ect?

1T "A. I don't racall .;cinc inf cc:.u . c2 . 4 2.

10 Lo: re ack you in particular uhen. r"".

20 you vorc informed th:.: the mut nct for the Chlerinz.;ica

21 Euilding had cettled?

93 4 ..o.<.. i..

-

L ~,23 "O. "er.c you informed as to whether there

24 had been any cettlement of the trcn:forner: nect thc

.

'' ' 3'

.

Lusod Reporting Service 3m40 %.nhurstem Huy.isfayrne Buddtne962.))?6 Suu, ;o

Suar MOIktroit \fichigu 48:26 Farmington Hdls \fschigu 48018

_ . ____ _ _-___ - __--_ _ - _ _

,- - _ -- - - - -

1 Diccel Generator nuilding?1

2 "A. Theco questions are during our

3 invectigation?

~(. 4 "O. 'lo c , during your inve:;tigatien 1 coding

5 to the preparcticn of rsport 70-20.

; " i. . "o , I .' e n ' t belicva o."'

7 If you'll loch through the type-uritten'

'

. minuter of ::r. T f if i of th e Sept:abe r 2 2, 107 " n'. . :i r e,,''

O does that re.frt.:h ycur r.ccliccticn oc to uh'ther c:., of

10 the cubj ectc the.: I'r Goold c,uc cticne d you cbe r: u cr

11 described te you during t;'e course of your invecticcticn?

12 4'. I reclly don' t recall thic docuacnt :.t thic point.

13 n "c.d you received the document en er cbout :ecember 13,

la 1970 you uoule agrec, uculc you not, f rou leching a . it

lE tha,t you were ,tcid chout cucP things ac trcncforrer Oc:

in c utlenant, if you lech ::t 7 age tuc, rarvice ve:.r v 11--

17 ;it rc ticten:, .a: co c.-? ''o u . .r<c e c 1. . .s t , 'e "- _

10 not, "r. Gallagher, that thic document talks abcut ccil

1D cubcidence, cuocticns dealing uith thoce ctructur u,7

,0 .+e.,.+. .

21 0 "hen you encuored the quection of ::r. Coold tuo veehc cgo

22 you ancuored it without reference to cny docuncntc, didn't.

\#23 you?

24 That' c cor rect.'.

?7'Lusod Repor.ing Service 3fn940 \.orthwtem Hwy.f I.afayette Bustdmehuar MO 962.)Ii6 Sune gm~

IMma \fkkiga +4:26 Fannmate Hsth, \1schteu A9018

___ _ __

.

1 C Juct bcscea1 your noncry of conething that had occurred

2 ci:: years aso?

3 n That' c correct.*

I 4 Q Docunente cuch at 73-20 are public rccords?

- .

..e c .:; : . .

"ceen't tne :'".C hav e n el.o rtt. cyct-' f er - -hire~ ^

7 av:ilabin te. tha pu'.lic in public roccinc :ccer the hin. r

0 of docenerta th:t a r. pu:;1icW ruch as 7^-20?

-.- ~ . . . . , , . . ; <.i. . ..

_, , . , .. . . ..

10 & ' r e y c u S t.n il i a r u i ti. th:. cyc:cr!

11 a ' ot very f aciliar.

12 Arc v. ou #cMliar with the .c ubl i c do cum en t r c cc:. ic hi ch t'. '-*

13 rnC hce, the e::ictence of then?

14 7. I do hnc.',.' L. icy c::i ct. I do not h n ou '.? h c r e th:y'r- Icc:::'.

15 .u r e ci cel"2 Fone ".lece in and : bout tr a ccr.ru..i c :01.

I

l15 clant.

- -. .., -

. .. . , . . .,.c .. ., ., ..- . .c.. 1 ..

. ., , . .~. .

i . ,- . . . . . , . . . ..-.- - - .-

3, 3 . . , . ... --. .

1.c ..- ". . u c .' n r. e "s a c .". ' - '.'

u .

20 .E cu nt e..'n t'a ch i ngt on , 1717 " Strcet.'

21 F. That' c the hacdquar ters of 1:nC?

22 A Cne of hecCquarter buildingc..

(23 'O ''o u v e r e cu a r e , utre you not, that tnerc vac c public.

24 document room in the "idland Public Librcry that had

'7"n-.

Lutod Reporting Service '

Lafayette Bunidine M 40 %rth ntm IIw)-Syg, g> 962 1176 suite ::o. Derms, Whigan sa::s Farminston Hills, %htcan 48018

e- _ - _ - _

1 pertinent documente deali .9 vith t'.o I:idland Plant?.

2 1, I knou there uculd be one nearby. .

3 0 111th reference tc your depocition soccion on July 13 th,

( 4 I:r. Coolf. asked you come que ticas on paccc 122 and 123,

2 Lot ne give you the tr n:cript pagcc co you can cc. the

G cony::t of it. '' hon you' r t Cono re dinc th w., if yeu c n

7 give it bac'; to ne to I can c h you < ucatienc.

.,

.. ..... _ . ,

"cy I hrve it back? "'ht nh you. At the botter cf 19' "r.O "

19 cocir c:he you: "And dif cnyone f rcn * :ch:s1 cc Con:r: arc

11 Pcuer make any cta temente to you ccacarning whr.a. tho e

12 boring thewed reccrains the adequacy of, the fill?

13 "A. Their accortica vac it cheuci the "ill

14 to bn cdcquatc." .

l~ t'ho tc1C you that, sir?

l' Tr.ic it in the conte::t of the finini c:r: ti on ' uildi .. ; ?'

.

o-

... . , _ .

.a-.k

1 ^2 ? Subsequent to our boinc nac.e cuate of it?

19 n '.'a c .,

22 7. Chey. I don' t roc:11 cpecificelly who naCr: th:t concent.i

21 It ucc generally the opinion of Con:uner: and ''ncht:1 thct

22 those f our er five borings at least nade them believe th r. t,

,

. 23 it va: "an icolated" problem around the Anninictratica'

I

>

24 DuildinC.

I

(,

. , U-Luzad Heporting Service *

3mIO %.rthurnern Huyi lafayene Busldmg

Suar MO 9 0 2 ' i l ** 6 Suur 2.M| >

| Detrat, \fithigsn M226 farmmaton Sih \fwhav 48018 !

,

l_ . _ - _ - _ _ _

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .

.

<r 1 0 Did you take notes of the convercati c thct you had with

2 thece people of Conctsaers and 20chtel?

3 A I don' t recall, but if ec did I don' t he.vo them anymorc.

4 Q Cf.d you memcriali::c that converacticn into a rcporL7

5 A I don' t recall. 7.y the way, I n i f.. cdd .:na : :no:: cc the.t

3 a::chan;c it f citly ucil-:'ocenent ed in the Lic ncir ; ca rd

7 heor'ince at to what their under tending of thoca f our er.

i'

five boring: necnt.

0 Cic thorc unncned people f ecn ''.ech tc1 cr Concer er'. J.rcu^

,

1C cny distincticn betue.3n the boring holcc t %c:. r.arr the

11 7.dninictrcticn ruilding and there tchen cucy Tccn the

11 th inictretien ruilding?

13 .'s "one.'

,

l' 1 Some of the nucibc.r rocctor that yac increctc( uh n ycuL

13 vorc vith T.cgicn *.II ucro being built by 7 .:: --1; ir t i. : t

15 00rrcat? I think you rc: ad tec.

17 ro, I th i n h ." ch c.1 v c ; th u nl-; :n .'

.

10 -C Call eu 2y a nd "ci f Cr e d.?

10 A Cell, Cc11cucy , Dech tc-1 ,e c the doc! cner ; the con : rector,

20 ua: co-called SrU??9, S::.mdard "uclear 7ever ?lon: ''f t:a

21 crgani::ation, which is dif f erent than T och tel .

22 C . ire you aware of whether er not any nucicar pcuer plant:'

,-

U23 in the United State: has been built on coilc cenpacted in

'

24 accordanca vith the "echtel nc61fied prec: 0r?.

.

NLned Reporting Sersier 56w %.thwtem HuylafaytteBuddmeSaar MO 962 1176 . Suar |20

', [netroa, Whigan m:26 Farmuseum lidh, Whigan 48118

. __. . _ _ _ -

, . _ ___

|

1 A l' o , I' m not.

2 O Did you ever nahe any inquiry o' Consuncrc rover cc

3 "ochtel to detern.ine whether the rechtel codified proctor

f 4 wac concthing unicue to the ::idicnd nuclect plan ?

5 A Uc, I cidn't.

G 'l "?o you hncu uhether er not cerraction of the coil ' -

7 :idland in.cccordance uith Dechtel modified nrecter woulf

? have %en caticf cctor'f to the I'nC?

C' ? "a, I don't.

There is nothing unuzual rer se in the crec.icn c?1C '

11 nonconfermance reports uith recpect te a nucle:r ,:c. cr

12 plant, is therc?9

13 ?. '.* c c .

1 '. 0 :.y statenent is corrcet, it' c nc: unu ual?.

If T. I agte:.

1 |nd it':. nc enuce-1 fer rene pl:n c :o have P.u.ir ~ ;r*

i

.. . .i ..- . . . _ . . c. . . .... . . . ,..,,..,....._..w.

. .,

. ,

....

_, - . . . -

.

13 A That': correct..

If C And, indood, ha sn' t it ' wen cyprected by 1ecrie

20 unculedce:.bic in the incuctrict 12 therr- w r <. no :'C - 1:

21 would probaoly indicate a deficient Quality J.s s. ore: cc

22 progria?-

23 A Or it r.ight indicate a very good plant..

24 0 It een either indic tc a parfect plant cr en lac'v uatr.

.

8 89 $

Luted Reporting Service * * -K 640 %.rthurnern fluy.l.afhyette B.addung

har MO 902'lE?6 Suar |ah)Detnut, %kess W:6 Farmaston Hdis, Whteas 48018

.

_ _ .

.

.

1 Guality Accurance progrem; is that right?

2 A- Chat' c right. Oc key is to utill::e those nonconf orcanca

3 reports ac carly ucrning signola and the identification of

I 4 trende to that one ccn correct rcot caucon bofer: they'

5 Locome ac larse a: 'that oc ncu coe a: "idland. Ch o t ' c t'..

." ? hole functica cf tho ('uclity Cantrcl Sy t;n, "eclity

7 ?.scurance crogram and the nonconfort nce report: 10 an

2 in:r.cral ';ctt c0 th:t cytten.

:: .ve ycu ucrhe d ca any nuc1ccr pcuer pl antt ? i d : r '.'i t'.: *

10 rb:cco or in your job ui:h the 1:'T uh'rt th u r . h r. . e.

11 b e e n '.'CP c cr c: t e d ?

'

, 1, ..o ... ..

13 C You were ached - nunbar cf cuectionc about ycur r".r-u ..*::.j

1.' of I:r. !!orn te get documenta ticn ccncr rnin; *.h<<

15 qualificatien of cc::paction ocuirnent. "e you :.c.11

15 thet?

, ,

.7 . . . ,. . .

l i. r Ca you recall : r. I:ctn telling you : hat he had b22n

10 attc pting te cet that inf crmation f rcr T.c'ch tcl en c.

20 repetitivo basic?.

21 A on a number of occaciens, yes.

22 ". Did you believo him?,.''

23 A I had no reccon to doubt him.

24 Cid you ultirately cet the infor:sticn?*

.,'''nLuzod Reporting Service *

3tMIO %.rthurstem fluy.uf,yers, twigingS,a, 90 962 1!.'6 Suste 3)M e,tidiga ts::s Farmsreton fisih. \fdieu 480lR

,

!

t

1 A 1. bout a year and a half later.

2 0 You got it thout.h; it that correct?

3 A Yoc.

T 4 0 !?a ther: any document that you ever request::d of

5 Cencun<:rc thct you cia not see at come ::cint, wheth.r ycu

! got it late or ectly?

7 A You mean once ve knee of and achod? '

|

~ m .*,.e..

n.-

~.

10 o "ac there an, other event be cit 3 : the ccr ;a ction v'ui r .n t

11 qualificati;n uhere you reccil that there une ca

1; inordins:e dela'' in re: rending to your rcque:.t f or ::;ur?,

13 7. I don' rc:cc11 at thic scint.

Ir l'othing c1:e ccee: to nind?14 ,

15 .i ':ct inc.e di a te ly , nc. !

Cid you co arcer.c; "cen, 21. you go tc : .rc u;11e c O c'. c. cl' r

1? a c t.. .. ru?crict 02 "crr's tc light. c fire y n s. . :. . c - -

.

13 cnic information?

3e _o_-- . .

20 0 "'o when t'id you go ?.

21 A Dird.

22 C And what ef fort did he nahe to get the informaticn?,

(23 A I don' t have any idea.

24 0 Did you go beyond ,ird?.

l.uted Reporting Service 'h~< CLafayette kidme 3mlo A.orthuntern Huy.% 2r h30 9 0 2 l E ** b kle :20.

EMrat. \fschtuu 48:26 Fammaton Hdh. %chieu W18- _ _ _ . . - - _ _ _ _ ._

1 ; I don' t believe I did. .

2 0 "hy not?

3 1. I think tht: vac a cufficient level cf ranegemont in

'

4 Connumer s organi::atica to get a res';once.'

1

"htn you cot no rcci: onco you cat and uaitud?5 ''

3 | I'o. "o finally incued a 50.5?. P r q uer: forne11';

7 requiring then to cubnit not only that document but

r liter:11y ebout 2 0, 4'' othnr document; uhict '- fcur' -

f th:: 're had not been given in the conc.uct cf ot'r r

10 tac tinte uith ''.ech tel cen cultc nt t. n :>y .6 be:n civ<-

11 thoce documentc.

h. -

.,s..o i - m... o n.,-j--

13 1. Consultante had ref erred to docunentc cf 'thich v 'c c i o '

l' hnculadn.e cf en. te that c.oint in tire, a: "c dincecc ^ '.

.

15 earlier thir rcrnint, cad neccacice.t: ' "cri ";cJ can i'.i"~

1C a ler.c list cf focunen:: nd cu;coquent 2 0 . ~ .' ? : ;u.. : 1

17 .' r occer documca.; ic r'_neral,

10 0 Did vou cet th ca ?1

-

got uh:t I ucc lochint f er. I don' t k n ou l ' t'c.' y go :10 ?'_

,

20 c11 cf then. .

21 q "r. Goold qucatiened you about c documene tuo vech; sco,

2' ':: C?C f24, and asked you to take a 1coh at that. '.*c u ' 11 (2

l'.

23 note that the document hac the type-uritten icgend'

.

24 Confidential? ..

.

I |

,

4/*1 lLusod Reportine Senier '^

3 M. \.<*thurs "" Hu Ylafayeur Buddins902'II?O Sc"' 2 'OSuite ai

lietrut \lichigan 482:6 farw M'on Hdin. W heen 48018 |,

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .

____ -_ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ _ ._ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _

.

1 A Yec.

2 0 ..nd Mr. Gecid cuid why is the docunent markc6 Confidentiel'

:

3 and you ca.id pecbably to hecp it frcn no. Co you recall'

/ 4 that ancuer?

5 T. I don' , recall ccyint f rcn .r.e, or irca th e '' C.

$ c- ''hr th 0 it Ucc frca ycu or the '.!EC, c.* th''. fact: I' " "

7 bata that ctatement?

O Ccnf!Untiel cener:lly 00(nr to rct31n '''cr:re c; i ror.'.

f ccneccc.

l !' r Ic i: "our unde r tt: nt.ing tha t doct'nent e uhi c'. re x e;;r:

11 tarhed Confidentici vort regularly h>.pt frcm the "T.C?

1. m. o o. c .o e

.

13 | .* Do "ou have env b::ic f or cahinc.' that ::tetent e r "" 3. .,

. .

le that just : uild guecc on your part?

12 J. It ucc ey observaticn in (calinc; i t'c. Co n c ur e t t r ou . :

13 Ccapany t'.w: they U2r not cartairP; cf : vclent r .* urr

17 i.. civinc u; in:r.rr :ian. :: uac. enly v.on : 't. ; :. '

-

10 uc rec 11y got what we ucrc 1cohinc for. :

'

l ." O I:y quottien to you, cir, ic, is tr. crc cnything c'enu. ho

20 le; cad "confidential" en a doc' ment which ches it

21 discovercble or not diccoverable by the "nc, at far as you

22 knou? ,

f~4"

23 A If it's not in the Ouality Ccntrol records, we uculd not

24 discce r it.1

'Lund Reporting Serrace ~ 32lafa)rtte kddag 30 M O %.rthurnem fluy u

Saar 610 962 1IIO Suar 23Detrut, \fahtssa st:.'% Farmatton Hdh hkiran +%28

.

r -

.

.

1 0 Uhether it had confidec.tial en it or not isn' t that 007'

2 A Chat's correct.

3 0 '.'ou certainly didn' t h:ve any hnculedge that this

I 4 document, 524, uce labeled confidentiol to uc@ it f rca

5 you?

: "ell, it ec r t ai nl-j v.* : net given to no.*,

Licten to my que: tion bef ore ycu anmier, "r. Calu.Ehnr.7 ^

ry c ue :icn to you is, Ir. 9c01: a ched 'f ou u:/> , :: thi'

O document narhed Confif.entisl. "ou h d r-ver 't e n rn?n

lo this fecunnnt,

11 7 Case in point.

2:4 if it'; n:rhci1.' e So if you h .dn' t eco.'t}.eCccu. ant13 Cenfide:ntiel that conne it uac narhed Confifenti:1 t< 'L " ? .

,

14 it frca '/cu?,

.

15 I n r e f e r e n ce t o -- w/ n :.m e ''a c 1.n t h e r : en ruiti :lt'.s

.

l' occaciene. I v:.c no: civen tna d o c e., e n t . It : : : r '. '

, 17 Co r .! ide n ti al , t'.w r <: f c r .: , : t . :.n ' : vcl ur.t : Jt. ,

13 0 : see. That uculd be trud of any Concun er docen mt :V-

10 vac cathed Confident 1:1, it's to kecp it f rc- yce?.

20 A "c. At leact ones th e br.ve refercnce t c . - ". r..eac:: in21 then.

22 0 Ohay. Uhat about any other Consumers document: carkedC:

23 Confidential?

24 7. It's irrelevant to n2..

.

"3.,

Lused Reportine Service3'B40 %.rthustern HuYlafayrtte Badhe

S&r tdo 962 1IIO Swte 220Detut. \fichgan st:.% farmsneton Hdis. \fschean 49018

. _ _ _ . ___ _

.

.;

-!

1 C "ou don't really know uhy thoco ut:: nached Confidentiol?,,

2 1. I'm sure thcy have reesons of theit cw n.

3 0 To keep it frcn coneboGy else?

( 4 l. Terhaps, |

4.

3 G Dcas the ;OC huvc cubpcent. guer? :&

C l. I beli ve co.

7 t' :~r. Gallagher, the Threo 'ile Ici:nd acciient cccurrce :

right :: th e circ you ucre finic'nr'; up your ecrh . :':t

,

O ::1dland, fi: it r.ct?

10 i Coincidantally, 'u,,

Dic 0:'I have any direct innset on your involv' rent c. :11 *.

12 ::idload? ['

.

13 :. " o n e'.

1/. ; rid it h:.vc cny ingset en the ti:m er c.t:enti:n taic'. "ccr ;^c

1 ceparicr: co ul c. give te vour re8crt:? .,

;.

1~ I, I a 11avn th r; unc en i.rpac:. 11 t' W cal - :'.<u.

'

17 : :.C c t;. e r r e c i c a ; l r e. ..; ; r c.. .. re. ' __.ct.? 7r ;.-

;-

la Island.

1r o Cahen cff cf currcnt licen:inc mar er: cad jut en ti.- ""I I

20 epicode?

21 ?. If I recall correctly, ycc. [!

t

22 O Isre you aunre of any ccerunication: by :2nicr effici:1 cf r

>

.

23 Concemers to cee your of ficials of the l'r;C, implcring M r'-

2 t, to dovete not: ctaf f re:ourec c to the :'idland licensin; i

,

, ...Lusod Reportina Sersice ' w* '-

.VB40 %.rtkuntern lin).IAfayette ikihneSwse hy) 962*liIb Saar ::0Detent \lahtgsn 48:26 ' farmneton l{k \fwksesn 48018'

__ _ _ - - _ _ - _ _ _ - _ _ _ -

_ _ _ _ _ _

*.

1 iccucc?

2 |A ?.: what point in tir.e?

,| m3 p, T ., 1 * 7 6.. .. .

,

II 4 |l. "ell, I think it vac gonor lly the cacc that t h e" '.-l e r .

5 lochin; for rcccurce; frcm the '.'rC : ;;; +nt.... thinie.

3 H ".rt ,.cn _ 4 , 4 .,, r m. 4 w . . . ,:.,.

, - .. . . . . . . . . .. ...pt

t

7 jr. "accely. Th : cort of rque::t ucule' be rariphe;11 to ee.,

4

1 i* .1 C .- ~ in the evnr ::h "cu fer "our i n. t : Or 'cc" " '. .

i

i sc~ac.

i .3. e. .c,.

i

:' ave v. ou cver h:C on" declin": uith a Er. Ceotcc C7: rL rc.:11 &,

!!

3 ,,, I.o...

1:. 5 De "ou 'ncu uho he 1:7l''

1.'- I kneu of hir...

1: n 9cilt ccncul t tc.t ? .

,. . .. ' _.' . .J-.

|

17 ::: "co : uli_: u i t.- :. i : i n-cl - ..a 2: . :.. '. . - . . .,

1.1 the "uclcar rxcula: cry Ccrniccier.?

,, . ...o...

20 n : .m:y hcve .,ched ,cu thic, il I :.if fer:iva :' :r. "cere.

21 activitie: ct the ::nc have you ever utilized : 50.5'

2 ": rcque : f or inf or.naticn f or ny p1 ant c: hor th:.n :'i61anG7,'

23 7. I haven' t.

24 n ":ve you been aucre that en a t ' s '.w2 n c:c n c ?

~g.

'~Lusod Reportsne Sernice "O \ ""h ""''"' II* Y(Afyrste ILsida

56, g; 962.IIis Suar 2:0

Dnrat. \fsektan n:.'s far***'o" II'll'. W hit ** *018

.

,

Ill' A Yes, ,

2 0 On plante that you had connection uith that you were

3 inspecting or reviewing?

l' 4 A Ho, o.r at least not that I' m nuc r e of .

5 0 L:id you cycr intcryicu or tal.T witl4 or conuunicate uiu.

any of the intcrvencr: 1.- the I:idlcnd 07:e?

'7 A Yec.

-an. . u. . m..vs

9 A rarbara Stanirit.

10 0 * hen uac that?

11 A Ccsuc11y in the conte::t of the licencing hec rine n.

12 n Juct in the halluny or conething of that nature?

13 A Yeah, yeah. I mecn, uc spent a let of tino ct :~i61:nd i

.

14 during those hearingc. There ucc cont: cts requcated cnd

15 the li!:c..

|Cid che ever provido you uith any inf orraticn that you13 ^,

17 2 cur:d h 21plul? i

10 A ro. .

|

19 0 Did che provide you uith any inf orr. anion that you didn'

20 find helpful, any inf ormation at all?,

21 A Mot really, no. I mean, I dicn't rely on any inf ormaticn.

22 nor was I provided with any. ,

(~23 0 Did you provit', her with any?

24 A no, not other than our submittals, our tectir.:cny and

, , , -

Luzod Reporting Service ~~>30840 A.orthuntern fluy.Lafayette Building

Suite MO 962 11i6 Suite 220

Detroit. Stichigan 48226 Farmington liilh, Stichigan 48018

--

.

1 Interrogatories, through the Interrogatories of the

2 licensing hearings.

3 0 Phat was the nature of your cc nunicction uitb her?

I 4 A Inter teners routinely had rcquests f or inf ormatica cr

5 c;uections and the PRC an<l myself responded to thote in the

3 forr:. Of Interrogatcricc.

7~ C I' n 'tc.ti:ing nore about any direct connu'nica ticn be tueen'

ycu en.f her, not f or:ral paper con :.unic:tinnr but i n f r.r m .1^

conversations.a

10 7. Chare ucre -- cell, 1 don' t hnou if it' c f r r:4al er

" rgler cet11 infortal. Thern ucc an occasion uhere ::r. -

12 uith ::c. Stamiric and nytelf in I:idland, :'.i ch u;c n . !

.

13 den.'t remenber the conte::t of the discusaien..

'

Juct the three of you procent?14 '̂

1

15 A I don' t know if there vac others, 2,D cr the ct:ctr.yt ,r j,

i

i'

13 c d. e r',r i ce .

l -mI a/

- . .; u . . U ,w, n u j, . wa.,- . _,

.s,

| la I. I::2cutive Legal Directorc office of th e PRC a t o r .m y .i!

' ..nd you don' t knou --10 -n ^

|

20 7- P.ill Fayton vac the cctorney at that tice. "t e t v a c.

| 21 the only other direct contact.!

| 22 ,n 'That uas the cubject of the meet 4.ng?I

'-

,

.% /

23 A I con't even recall to tell you the truth. It uas

24 procedural perhaps.,

|

. - . ,

' ' 'Luzad Reporting Service 3mto \.orthuestern Huy.Lafayette Building962 1176 Suite 220Suite 100.

Detroit, .Michikan 4822b Farmington Hills, Michigan wals.

~ ,

.

1 c Uhere did it take place?

2 In I:icland, I:ichigan. .

'..

3 0 Uhere in I:idland?

C 4 l'. Uhatever hotel that 'ias, in the lobby.

H5 uO The I:cliday Inn?

5 7, I don' t knou, Duality Inn.1

IO Is there a Quality dan?'7 .

f,t* .P ,

c. .eu.

9 0 Is thct where you stayad uhen you travcicc' te ::idl.nd?

13 I Gon' t rcuenber. ."or the .oct part.'

11 r Was that the only meeting you had uith cn inter.voner?

12 | 7. '?e s , other than cgain Sid:P rectincc, S -:- 1-:: na tincc,

13 uhcro they were open to public f ore:an.

1*. 9 In what building did the S72.,P cactings take ?lacc?|..

1: "I. The one that I attended uce up in Cachacn, : i ch i - . , 1 : .' O

15 | probably.!

4" l

17 ::.: the "P.C taken :n' ;ct i on of uhic'r af eu e r - - -- '''

|,

.

!n

IP | vould prevent the I:161and Plant .f rcn heinc lic :nr.E 12 i: 1

10 ucre phycically con; lated?

20 Jt They have not taken cetion on the licensing as cf yet.

21 c. I guess uhct I' m trv. inc to ge t at is that you castificd, -t

t

22 I this acrning that~you had come, I think its f:ir to say,

| 23 come strong personal f eelings about the desirability of

1

| 24 going f orvard with the construction at the ::iCland Plant jt

.

! 1

|Luzod Reporting Service 0M'

30810 \.orthuntern Huy.Lafayette Building

[ Suar MO 96?.]17b Suite 220Detroa. kichigan 48226 Farmington Hells. \fichigan #1018

i 1 and n.." ense, in a word, you didn' t think the gane vac.

2 worth Lhe candle, that the plant was never going to get-

3 licenced. Is that a f air sunnary of your f eelingc?

e4 !!R . GOCLD: Obj ection, niccharacterinaticn.

5 A I der't believe I charccterized it a c ti.e .

-

,a r, , - , r. . r r. . . .. . . . . ~. .

7 o Let's f orgot the events of the lact ten dayc, tuo pechc,

O conenrnirr Conrunerc' ctctcnent shout ccnttructic' of th e

? Plant. Let' n 'go b ch tuc vochs in tir.e, if you vill.

1C Zhat I' r' trying to get at ic uhether tne ~.C r. a c :chen any

11 action, fornal action by entry of an order er thinge of

'

12 that n.'ture which ucul,d preclude the licensing of ::idleind

13 fren over taking. place? I underct;nd it has not got t::n cn.

It opcr ul:'g licenoc, but has tha "nC fone ccn c th i.;g .in:. cl ,

if /culd irrevocably provent it f r= ccing lice n:r. P:

l$ ? "ot that I auare of..l

!17- l.r e y o u c.w r c of ' r/j reccr"ond:.tica by thc ca ll . .

'

!

,-

.:. , Ccon.4ccion or the licencing ocarcc unic,n ucul e, :.. , , , .. ,

10 adopt"d, prevent the pla nt frcn bcing licensed?

20 ? :'ct that I' r au:re of..

21 Is it pcasible to have components of a nuclear plant^.

22 constructed properly although the paper trail i t,|

t''23 incorrect? Can you have orrors in the paper trcil and yet

24 the construction be correct?

f' ", nLuzod Reporting Service -

3M10 N.o!'h u'd''" II''7-lafayette Building*

Suite MO 962 11i6 Suite 220Detroit, Alichigan 18226 Formungton liilh. Afichigan 48018

1 A Eypothe tically ?.

2 0 Ye c .

3 A I precune cc.

/ 4 0 Did you have any personal involvement in the ultimatc

5 remeclial effert u..dartaken at I:idland, rhc co-c lled

5 ur.derpinnir.0 effert? "cre you involvW in tnat in 'ny

.

7 u cv ?-

' ? Pc ri :h c r a11v. . Cel"a out of inc:rcc: nor a b c r, c c' n ci:.ica

n-t.n. m . . 4 .e r. ...-

1C Ocao that ~.e r. ycu did not particir-tu in t h - C .ci ri en^

l' "hich cane cut of the 'mC trith recrect to the uaderrinning

1 ?. activities?

13 A That's correct..

.

'Then you rce,ucertd infernation of Concumer rc'.7er cr14 6 -

i\

l

15 :cchtc1 durint the ccurce of ei th<:r your i n '_ ; e c t i r - c. r

.

'

15 your invecticaticn, did you mche nctic of "h'r 'ot .. -,

17 cc::cd thet ec grczicc?i

|-

,n . .. ,

:. c e, s.o. ;,

10 0 "ov did v.ou fc11c,. un. in ' nowinc ,tha t you "ar c cOc .nd,.

i

20 dhat you had gotton ar.d to on? I

.

21 A It's easy to keep track of.

22 O Just in your head?.

("23 A For the acct part.

.

24 0 Does that mecn there's come other part? Tac enere

Lu:od Reporting Service 490lafayette Buildm.e 30840 \,orthurstern fluy.Suite MO 962 1II6 Suite 220. -

Detroit, \fichigan 48226 Farminetun flills, .\fichigan 48018

,

l

1 sonething .other than j ust remembc.inc uhat you asked f or? ,

2 h Uc had other people involved. We all reninded each cther

3 of the trcil ue verc folleuing. i

I' 4 0 Did you phone Mr. Horn f rca time to time and a:!; hin f or

5 informaticn?

3 i 22r:1y; cecacienclly, thcugh.

"culd you have one of your colleaguec on the line uhen you7 - "

telephoned ::r. ':c r n ?'

9 .R "o.

10 Did you report to your cc11:aguce and ccy I' ve juct c.: l l ,^

11 Don I:ctn and asked him f or thic and made a note of it?- 12 A Mo.

13 e icu j ust kept it in your head; ic that right?

14 7. That J right.,

\

I:nd I want to br adea my questicn to inclus: ';h o n e cr.11 :15 ^'-

.

13 to other pcopic :: Co n 'c c r c c n d " c ch :21., "c ul d ' ?. . 1:i

i

17 an: or 0e the c : .~ 7 i,

,

10 A Uell, I don' t 'celieve I ever eclied ":ech tel caplcycac. ;

19 celled other Consenerc onployeec..

20 9 nird or Corley cr paople of thri r.c t u r e , your an ver ';cul, '

21 be the same?

22 |A nicht.

is |Q Your investigation in the f all of 197 0 was nothinc secret,23 :

24 uco it? I mean, you did not tell Consumers people or the.

.

001Lu:od Reporting Service 30840 ;\.or:hwestern Hwy.Isfayette Budding962 1Ii6 Suite 220Suite tuo

Detroit. \fichigan 48226 Farmingty Hills, Alichigan 18018

. .

1 Dechtei people that thic uac a secret invectisation and

2 they couldn' t disclose it outside the company?

3 A Uo. -

.

f. ~ 4 0 Uac it your judgaent that the reorganication of Conctners

5 perconnel was undertaken to ctrengthen the .. anate: aunt of

5 the proj ect?

7 ?. i'hich one of the reorganicationc?

n -n .an1C, - ~. . 4 . . c o'.'.."~.- ^-> .~ - .

9 ? ' ~a c it my jud ycnt th:t it unc to strengthun?

10 0 'le c . Did you get the conce that t..ty ve r r 'ir'r i r e; te *;ut - - -

11 ? Ohat' 3 uhat they articulated, their 7urpose.

Did ycu' believe then?12 n

13 7 I hcd no rencon te doubt them..

1/ ' "hat opticn *:ac availabic to .concuncrc rcrer Cer;an; c'ctm

15 tha coil proble=c crce a: th c. Diocel c en..rc. tor 'nila nc

I c:ida from placing the tur cha r cic ?16

x..; a c s: : c7 r. a17 7 * all, ti . e. ..T o r u Cr a c t i c c r.<. :ia 7

12 remcVe the ucrk that had been cenpletec' to that point nu

'

10 remove the fill reterial.

20 n Oear the building dcun and c: art ever?,

I21 A T, that point, yes.

22 0 Did you make any stuGy of the cehedule implicacicns or the

23 cout implicationa of that versus the surcharge?

o. a. ..o.-. c.

Luzod Reporting Service >=9.--

3Mio A.orthwestern Hwy.Lafayette Budding'

962 1176 Suite 220Suite h30Detroit. \fichipn 48226 Farmington Ihlis .\fichigan 48018

_ . ..

, -

:

1 0 Did anybody at the !!nC?

2 A liot that I' m awar e of.

3 0 Uhen ycu described how the Diesel Generator ruilding<

. 4 subsidence vac discovered you talked about closing r.'-

.

5 survey?

, , , , , .., ..

7 0 t? hat does - the t mean?

O ? "ell, ic'c c terr in curveyinc that enc uccc in, r. 3 it's

. c c li e d,, clecing the loop on an op:ical curvey, nchi.~ cur <^

10 that all cf the shots cf the curvey inctrment a d. 'J : cm

11 I cloco. One would have to have done curveying to

[12 physically understand the leg and the dcta that one'

13 collects in cicsing a curvey.

1.* O Thic is not comething tht t can ba donc vith the ':e ' ey e , 'I

,

i

1; you need incurements to cloce the curva'/ ? |

15 1 Y2 c, en eptical in ct r um ent .

| ''17 :c i: ;ccd enginu :rint, nr:.ctice uh..n y a :' r; .nuisi ; -.

'

1 T, building to curvey it for coils cer:1ccent c.r.c conduct

19 thace curveys and cloco the surveyc? lI

nr n. . . . .,-

..

.

21 0 Did you have an impression -- did you wori: closely encuch

22 with Gil ::coley to get an improccion of his integrity,, . .

~ . ,23 hone sty ?

,

24 7, 1:o.

.

'm.

''Luzod Reporting Service 30840 A.orthwestern llwy.lxfayette BuildingSuite MO 962.I176 Suite 220-

. Detroit. Alichigan 48226 Farmington flills, \fichigan 18018-

}1. Q Ic the.::idland 1|uclear Plant the only plant, the only

2 nuclear plant, of which you are aware which hcs had a

3 significant condition adver se to quality, as you ured that

l' 4 tcrr in your deposition?

- ,

o o ..o ...

C n *:cw nany other plante have had cuch condition:?

7 7. I don' t'have a number f or you. .

Ccn you n;me any?'' *

'' ' Per the regulaticns, the 50.55 3 it'ontifiar uhit it -

10 signif ica nt construction deficiency. ; nual;ir of th"-

11 have reported such deficiencies.

12 n !!cu about the plant you uorhed on in Louicirnc, did it

13 have c 50.,55 C deficiency?'

..a ,. . .e o, .

. _

.

15 0 On that concr?te crac!:ing you Ceccribed?

1: ?. Tha t ' s correct.

nace- 4 ulce 12 '.,

on .inf orna cic n : .i ch c ...;u to ycur ::::.7 " .

10 you .w rcte 7 3-20, or c;cisted in its writing, to th. tir.c

ID you lcf t Region III and moved to U..shington, ci. jou cver

20 cuggest th r. : that report be annended or cupplenunted in

21 a ny way ?

22 1. ::o.,.

('23 0 l'.r. Goolc asked you come questions yectarday about tho

.

24 "prelcad e::periment" and ached you cbout Dr. Pech' c

.

.'Luzod Reporting Service . A%

3M40 %.rthurstern llwy.isfayette BuildingSuite MO 962 1!76 Suite 220(ktroit \fichigan W26 Farmington flills, .\fichigan 48018- ,

1 reconnendation that a prelcad be put en and asked you if

2 there was any proof other thcn Dr. Pe ch' c cay-co, and I

3 think you cai6 no, there vasn' t. Do you roccl1 that line

, . .- 4 of cuectioning?

? ? I Gon' t recall in phct conte::t thct qucuticn and annuer

5 ucs rciced in terms of uhothcr or not i t voul d -- if I

7 remocber correctly, it was in the conte::t of rhether or

? not it '.ould '.'arP as cf the recentenc.rticn. 7 runn, .:'

0 that tire tharc ucc nc crocf that it *:culc *;o r P c c.C , ii.

10 fact, hictor'j ncc chcun uhat it' c Coat .

11 r "hat do you necn hi.ctory has choun?

11 Ts The builcing han c::rerienced cignificcnt er. chin 3, , hero':

.

13 dicpute within the :Tr.C at to the cicnificcacc of thct.

1.' crcching and it' c cort cf cenCcmic ct thic point.

15 Let ac flip arcunC the quec:ica .:r. Ocelt cc: . 0 * .w"_

13 yuctorfry at:d ::::, vac there cn; orccf prcc.ntoJ cc tiii

a. ; u. .. . . d ,. a. e.. . ; v. ....-..._.s . , . , . .vw.:w s7,9 ,.,,,-m . , ,-. .....o.,. .

v.t... u .4 ...A .2

13 incorrect?

10 It uccn' t a natter of being uncour6 or inccrr:.ct, it u;c',

1

20 catter of beinc cn c::periment of trial ur.C nrror. |

21 0 Ultimately it cano doun to a matter of judgment, did it

22 not?/

b23 7, ::oct thingc do come Coun to a matter of judgment, oc .ac

24 the ccco uhother cr not to rencve the building or whether.

*e'. -

Luzod Reporting Service 30840 h,orthurstern fluy.*

lafayette Buildung962 1176 Suite 22033,, yo

Detroit, Stichigan 48226 Farmington l{ dis, Stichigan 48018_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

.

|-

1 cr re to bave a geotechnical engineer on site to chech to

see t. hat the soil tests were accurately done.2 4

3 G I'n liniting ny question now te v:hether or not the

f 4 surcharge shouldn' t have been place 6 on the Diesel

5 C-e.- ca tor D uilding. Your testimony van thct, cs I tche

6 it, there vac no proof of f ered onc- voy cr the other,

7 either in support or oppocition to that solution. "! : t

8 I' r aching you, that's a natter cf prof erriencl j ud nentt

9 te thicP Concemerc and .echtcl turne.d tc a uccle

10 recogniced cuthority ; ic that correct?

11 ? Ohat's cor r ect.

12 O Yo't t.1ked about c::^reccing your opinion that the.

13 curcharge uculd crcate a licencing nightacre.. Dc you

l' renta. Wor thoce ucrdc?

: .=. .- "_ c_ .n .

13 "n :h a t y c u r ';.c c r o na l v i eu ?^

,- . .. _1, . _u .

l? O *Ma it t'he of fici al vic', cf the :'22?

1: : : Jan' t hanu uhct the of ficial vic- cf the "nc cc..

In a ny ev ent , your renarhs uerc limited to Jugene20 m

21 Gallagher?

22 A Yes.

("'23 G You were asked a scrics of c;uestions about the :tRC'

26 recuocting of Concemer: ?cuer chat additional coils

adeLuzod Reporting Service uo

3M10 %.rthurstern fluy.Isfayette RaildingSuite MO 962.I176 Suar 220.

Detroit. \fichigan 48226 Farmintron Ihlls, Afichiean 18018

.

1 borings be taken cni.' that Concuners obj ected to the tchir.g

2 of the boringn. Tiiis is March of 197 9. Did Concumers

3 ultimately take or cause to be taken all of the borincs

at 4 which the Imc requested of it?

5 T. I believe so.

2 ::i t t:. ti c n"';en ,"cu ucr kc d 2 c r :',ccco did you cyc r have5 0

7 where the cuner of a plcnt had a disagreement with the T',-

C cr constructor thout ' . e.: coneching chcult 5:. dorn nr --'

it rh oul c. 'c c. fore?

1C T. rec.

11 Cha:'s not unur.ual, is ic?'

l? 7. "ot in the cour:c of bucinecc. -

'

13 1 ::cu about dicagrecaunt bet. teen the cuner or canctructor

14 cnd the UnC percoc.nel en cite, racident inc cccer er a : P. ' r

13 J a cpl e , to thoct di:ggreenence arir.. in the corr:- c' c

15 nuclecr pcwo: plant conctructicn?

1, . ? ._. c .,-

. - ,

,

i

10 0 :: c'.: Ice.g dic tbo r cu cv al of th e sand curcharce t c .' . c : :a

1C Dioccl Generctec ruildir.c?

20 7 I ccn't recall.

'21 n Do you recall it tahing sone vecks?

22 7. Yeah.e

k

23 'O During the rencycl dic you recommend to anybody ct''

21 nogion III that it be haltad?

4c7Luzod Reporting Service 3%IO %.rthurstent Huy.*

Lafayette BuildingSuar MO ,962 1176 Suite 220

Detroit, .\fichigan M226 Farmington Hills, Alichigan 48018

.

1 A I think I answered that earlier that I didn' t rcconnend it

2 be put on.

3 0 You didn't reconnend that it be halted?

i 4 A That's correct.

3 0 Ucre you aware of the curchar;e being rencyc.d durinc; the

3 rencvel prococs itcelf?

7 A Probcbly co. It wac hard not.to be aware of it.

': 0 ::ard not to 200, the cercharge ucc 20 feet c2 rand ccr ::'

f ever r very vide arca?

Cl.at'c ccrrcct.10 -'

11 C Tonc and tons and tonc of cand?

I12 A Perhapc. |

13 7 And truc': loads cening in and out, bringine; it in and

i t'. tahing it cut? *

1,

15 A "ou get it,

1G Coulc "ou dio cu: ". C 1 c- th i c r.c r n i n t ' '. : Tili ;?^

.

, . . I. . ... ..

, . . ,. ., ~. u. , 1 . . , . ,. u.t . 1 ,, , .. g , u;. . , . . . .

le. . . I .- . - , . y aJ,. o u +a t.. c.,, . . ,. , . . . .. . , . . . .

IP :T: . CCOLD: I:er^ it ic, of cource. i

1,

.0 -y .,e- " T. 'e' ". ". - .

<a_ . c. . .. .

i

21 0. . ::r . Gallac,her , if I can Icok over your thoulder, " :h ibi t,

|

~ hat22 P:: 1:RC 51, the top of page three there's a sta:enent t

,.

\"23 cays, "The ctaff noted that such documente as above ar:

24 needed by its consultanto f or their independent cosacrment

Luzod Reporting Service 4%Lafayette Buddm.e 3m40 \orthurstern Huy.Suite MO 962 1176 Suse,220Detroit, \fichigan 48226 Farmington Rdh, Afichigan D018

.

1 cf the adequacy, of the proposed remedial me:rures and

2 requested that these be made publicly availeble. The

3 applice nt indic.'ted c reluctance to this end and noted

I" 4 that these were cvailable through the I L C audit

5 mechanica." 20 you knou what the stateme..t concc r ni ng

S publicly avnilabic ,0cnc?

7' A !?ct in that' conte::t.

T.nd what doct 'the ref er r.nce tc the docurent be :. n c' *

? Ovnilabic thrcugh the I O = udi t mech r.i rn n u n ?~

I had ref errr d to earlier toCcy. Ch " _' r c j e c t1C T Ohat's uh2t e

11 1.cnacer had rceuested thc.t they not put them in cuhnittal

12 to the :'nc, whercar, they *.reuld be publicly availchic

13 through the public document rect, but i nv i t e d, I guc a,.

1/ then to find them through the I a C wdit, c e u t i . <.

15 auditing.

15 r "hen you cay find ther?

17 ^r ta icch .t thc" er ct!er.ita.'

i

la F Uas ::r. .:celey cuggesting ha vouldn' h e' ; you l oca ::. t h .,'

15 documentc, that you' d have to go through f!1ing cchinctL

20 to find them?|

21 T. : o. 'cou have to keep in mind the conte::t that this letter

t 22 was written, and I would encourago you to c0nfir it with, ,-

A'23 I:r . Hood, that after that meeting or even during that

- 24 meeting the !irtC people were looking a t each other and|.

|

|| "cc<

Luzod Reporting Service -'

30%0 %.rthurstern they.' Lafayette BuildbagSuite MO 962.I176 Suite 220

\ Detroit, Sfichigan 48226 Farmingtm Hills, Alichigan 48018

.

1 discovering f or the firct time reports or references to

2 reports that had not been made aware t'o us and it dawned

3 on I:r. !!ced as well as ocher MRC people th a t it uculd now

I /. necessitate becoming a little more formal than j uct the

3 routine audit mechanism t.c got documentc. Se then m;C._ c;

5 c fairly lcn; lict, if I ramcaber corr:ctly, of titl<C to

.

7 documents so that we vould make cure that ue cot them.

' .c ::r . 9006' c lette r inc012 ;;;fc - pualic doce&r-?9 - ^

O'

I don' t know. Let ce tcy cny :'. C document to e lice .: . '

10 would in generel terrs be put in the public Gocem.nt r c. c .

11 r I:r. Gallagher, I ask you to 1coh ct CDC 31.6, which ir the

12 preliminary document, Consumer c 2cwor Cer:. ny discussion-

13 of :InC Inspection, :'c r ch 9, 1 C7 9. !' ave thtt in frcnt of

14 you? *

;e - . . , . . ..

.- c.

1C C "culd you turn to page U 31023. Pirst of :211, 1;c ~ - :.|-

17 you unit: 5. Co cu .em. by i t u cu n u r:..c i - '" '

13 Preliminary and also :eviced. I rahe it you und.:rc:cc<.

19 when you roccived thic document in 1979 rhct it uct boire |

20 ''crhed upon by Concener s Pcuer Ccn:'iny anC that tnic cc..

21 not the final product?

22 7. That's correct.,

(,

23 0 On the page that I' ve ashed you to look ct, the paragraph

24 in the middle of the page beginning, "CPCo site.

Luzod Reporting Service ECOLafayette Building 30MO h,orthurnern fluy.Sune Mo 962 1176 . Suite 220Detroit. Afichigan 18226 Farmington Ihth, Stichigan $8018

,

. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

1 perconnel", etectora, I vonder if you could read that

2 paragraph to yourself and I vant to ach you a que'ction

3 about the lact sentence.

( 4 I. To n.

5 0 This acrning you toctified that the 1cct centence unc

5 unusual. You caid it unc a little out of the ordinar".

7 Du you recall that? .

G '. Ohn t's cor r ect.

0 Given that fcct, ,.'h n t steps did ycu tche to fclic' e en''

10 e..ploring thic out of the ordincry cantenc:.?

11 A C o nt. . The centence vacn' t cut. of the ordinary, the c :.a t a . ~ t

12 that it contcinc is out of the ordincry, that a E r cj ect

13 "ngincer respcnsible f cr a culti-billion dollar rroj act i:

14 not accrc of aa entirc f cunda tion having to be rer.r.vtri on,

115 the citc, thct b:inc the recroncible Proj ect ?nginc.fr I::

15 Concuners Pcuer Ccrreny, whcco nar.e c:ill alluce a r.:, r:

'',,i . . .'.'6 7, '' ' c'. . s- . . . , - d....' ' ' . t '. 1' .-** " * ' - "t-

. .,r *$-,.

. . .s ~ . t . - .. . .

-.

i

'

12 can be building a multi-billicn dollar proj cct e n:' nur be

1C aucre uhen a major deficiency on c building cdj acent to 1

20 acf ety-relaced buildings has to be literally torn r;cr r

21 and replaced, incredible.

22 9 "hich building uca torn apart?i

i. '23 A The Administration nuilding grade beamc, act a cac11

'

*

24 venture..

|

501Luzod Reporting Service 3m40 \.onhurstern Huy.is)hyette BuddingSuite MO 962.I176 Suite 220

iktroit, \fichig<.n 48226 Farmington Hills, Stichigan 48018(

' C "hat uac the ccope of the remedial ef f ert under the

2 Adminictration Building?

3 A They removed 'the entire grade beca and rencved the coil.

I 4 and then replaced it.

5 9 Do you know hcw 1cng that took?

5 7 I don' t k n o'.i b u t it's not a c all undert2hinc.

7 o You don' t f:ncu. Do you know hcw nuch it cost?

O "c, I don': L:ut i t' a big jcb.'

O ' liv en ha.: you'vc doccribed thic eve:nt a n t' t h " E : c '- t'c c :^

10 thic u m , ac y e've tectified, out of the orCincry, -*

11 didn' t you f olles: up and find out f rcm the Proj ec:

.

l' :ngi;;eer why he rcuponded in thic way?

13 A "ell, he said it's not unucual fcr the site to take 0:r.

1 ". cf prchleac on their c*.in. .

15 O Chat uac good enough fer you?

'15 ? "oere do yce cc frcr tiare? The cu a^:it:1 t c. ' - 1 - -,4

17 cc: of ch: d:: ui ci o - nrcconc of *.x.jor 7. v . . : . . "' u i. |1

!

1

10 itsclf indic tc c a canagement problct..

17 You j ust icf t it ct that?^

20 -

"2 too: it at f ace-value. "e accepted hic ct:tcr:.nt P. c.

21 he' c removed and you t:ncu, accepted it.

22 0 :n the f ace of any inf ormation given to you f rom C.'C 520,/

.~ 23 did you cuggest an'/ revisions in Imc 62, that in the

24 report f ron ::r. "eppler, dated February 13, 107 ?

I

. Luzod Reporting Service 502309I0 \.orthuestern fluy.Lafayette Buildung

Suite 630 962 III6 Suite 220 -Iktroit, \fichigan 48226 Farmington lirlis, Stichigan 48018

1 1:c. 7nat report ucc, for the noct part and if not.

2 entirely, a technical report dealinc vich the causes,

3 technicc1 cauces of the Dieccl Generator I'uilding and our

4 invectigation surrounding thct.

3 0 Ucu talke d about the bor a te d *,.'a tc r cu or e.ce tanks thic

5 norning and a crcch in the ring becr and cone ernedici

7 effortc being undertaken, ano you caid the renedi-1 ucrk

Cone u '.c "no t nu ch " . rec s your cncur r T.een : c e. : rharn c.m*

: not encuch Gene tc re.ned" the e. r ob12. cr .thr" the er obi: -a .

1C ucc rcnedie d in com;a r c tivc1.v. e c c v. J a c'r i on ?

11 T- *: hen unc thic e t?

12 n 7hj; . tac thic c.orninc.

13 ? Uhen ucc the renedial ucrk that you' rc tclhing bcut dond.

l ?. ' Jon' t hncu.^-

-,

15 '. I cciC it ur.c not Cone uhan they ctc t n. ' to bt:i1J ti.c

1.~ e c.T h c . Ohcy Cicn't Co any: Sing. TS : y h .r" th .: - h .:>

.. .< . . , . . > ... - ,. < : v , i..-... r . 5. - . . , .,, , , , , . , . . , . . . . ,. . . . _

/ .. . a. . (.. -. . c. w..

.

13 ncvertholcac continued to conctruct c ajor tank en that

10 unuld later be unccceptcble catcric1.

20 F. "ac v. cur cnazer to inpl"a-

--

.

9.1 A It '.,as a cinilar ccticn to uhat they had done at the -- i:

22 uas concictent with uhtt they had dono at the diecelJ

s''

23 generator, which vac continue on, ve'11 tche our risha,.

24 '<e'll uctry abcut it lotsr, we'll jar i t dcun, uc'll j u t,

.

DC3Lusod Reportirig Service 3n9IO h.orthuntern Huy.lafayette Buddine

962.I176 Sune 220Suite h30 .

Detroa, Afichigar. 48226 Farminton Rdh, Stichigan 48018

.

4

.

1. continue on. .

2. C !? hat do you neaa ve'11 jam it dcun?

3 A i'e'll get it thrcuch the l'nc.

4 0 L'ho told you thc;?

5 A That uac the irproccion I vac gatting, o cava11tri.it

c:titude tc.'re continuing con:tructice in tha f:c. cf'

7 gigantic prob 1 cmc facing then, that is, ne entire plcnt

being sunruct, at lecct the f oun& tien of the "iri re"

9 ;1.'nt.

10 o I: it ycur te sti: ion". that renebody at ''a - r t t e r : .-":cr

11 Conyny telt you that we' re going to j er. something dc"n

12 the "nC' n th roa r ?

13 A l' o . That vac j ust the impreccion of cavoliering on uith

1 -: the project in t,e, number one, not ge tting cp::r ovcl c r.J.,.

1E n umbe r tu o, having one heck of c --

15 n r:id enubcGy f rc:a Concuncrc cvet rugge st tu veu " , th'

17 cc;.7cny *rcult bc cir,*,ir - bill icn c c: . c 1 '. a s it. --

.

1P pro'oc: uhich they 'celieved woulc not b,e licenc-.. or ucun

10 not cperctc?

20 ; I: didn't nchn cny sense to me.

21 0 Can you cncwor nf cucaticn?

.n. n A ..o .u

f

23 0 I want to road you a f eu sta tementc, tir. Gallagher, frca.

24 the report rccently filed by the :*nC, the draft r epo r t

.

Luzod Reporting Service 504f.afayette Buildas ?ml0 h,orthuntern Huy.Suite MO 962'II ?6 Suar 220Detroit, \fichigan R1226 Farmington Hills, Michigan 2018

.

-

7.

|

||

1

M;aendra ent, which I reclice |1 prepared purcuant to the For d

2 you caid this norning has noi. been adopted by the

3 Conniccion but only by the staff. And I uculd ach you

f. 4 uith respect to these cratcments whether you personally

5 acree or disacree . lith thc.1. Thic document ic enticl< J

2 Ingreving e'unlity and the ?.ssurance cf Onclity in th.

7 Cesign~nnd Conctruction of Concercial ruclear Pcuer ricnt

P Report c Concrece, U. S. "ec1cc r regulr tor" Cc:. ~.inci e n

D Cffice of Increcticn cnd 2nferccaent.

1? This is frcn pace 1-/.. "In c.n" cc:";1-'

11 andecvor, cone error s will be made. The more conpir: t t. s

15 a ndc av or , the creater the ch'nce of er ror c. " no fcu .-gr e.

13 or dicc;ree with that ctctcment?.

1/ . ::2. OCOLD: o .:f"re you ancuer , I'? like to

if chj e ct if the line of c ucctiening involv:'. ? crc i :. t c i n ;. [

10 to concir; cf rea ding inclatw cnccr7tc f rce wh:,:. is,

l,

17 a ppa r entl'; verf laccthy docenan:., "hich .r. "ri':~r 5 :

13 in hic hanc and ic not charint with anyon; cl:- in t:.t

'I think it's an unf ai r and i rappropricte line ofI? room.

20 quecticnc to ach a vitnecc to acree or disagrac vid.

21 centenccc pulled out of a doccment cuch at that.

22 MR. CF.I::23 : It' c a publicly available,

v23 document.

24 7. I would agree with the obj ecticn, to tell you the truth at

*0"..

Lusod Reporting Servicelafayette Building 3mto krthuntern lluy.Suarfuo 962 1Ii6 Suar 220

Detroit. 31ichigan 48226 Farmusgton I(dh. A1ichiean 48018_ _ _ _

_

,

1 this point, other then tching tuo lines c .:t of document, I.

2 don't even knou uhat conte::t you' re ref er t in; to. Comple::

3 endeavor. Uhct type of comple:: endeavor problerc, to uhnt

4 degree of probleac? It' c totally, you know, open-enGed.'

-. ,11 A.

: 1r you can rclan. it tc .iclcno.. . .. ,

g,mc te cnc.,er.i,.

e, rv .. , n.,. r. . .- . . . . . . .

7 0 '' hic is an intr oductory t. e rccr oc.h into the ctudy. Thcy're.

cre previciens dealing uith Midlax , ubi ch I c i t.c " " r t o'

.O c:uestion you cbout. "efore uc cet to "i f1: nd, ..r- cr-

1C cone genC ralic Cd at te!.'.ent: in thic r' port Cc C c t' e n i ,

11 nuc1ccr pcuer plant construction in the United nc:c t.

22 ' lou hcvc ncdo a variety of etc tament ir your dicuct.

13 tectitony thct arc pretty f ar-recching in tert.: c uhat

1.' you, believe your cun visuc crc conccrnin:.. the "i di:c _.

15 ?lant and I think I'ni cntitlad to cuecrien :1. u lor. . : :i a

13 upan thich your c:ct nIants have baan nac'c.

. . . . . . - . , . . r. . . L r . . . , , < . ~; t . v t..4, ..t.v. ..:..

~.- .

3. / . . .. .9.r ..

.

, ..

.

l 's d.iccc.jrec vith thcce ctc ccentL. rms if you'u.nt. t

1.^ c. .in l i f y "ao ur ancu e r c hv. cavine thct you b.av tc hnv :.or --

20 chout the section ycu' rc cuoting 2 rem or maybe -|c;., r . y :.-e

\-

21 no or so on, thct' c u : to you. I think I' ... cntiti:C te

22 cat an ancuer to thece c;uesticac, t

/

' - ~ 23 *m. GCCLD: Let me reitorate ny c'.;jection,

24 which is even narc deeply f elt nou. It cern: to be

4

Luzod Reporting Service :C#2-

30%0 %.rthurstern Huy.lafayetir BuddverSuar rdo 962-|176 Suig, 220

Detrat. Alichigan 182:f> Farmusaton Hdh. Stichigan 48018_ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ - _ - - _ _ _ - _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ - _ - _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ - _ - __ -_ - _ - _ - _ _

,1 apparent lir. Driher is not willing to let the uitnecc.

2 e): amine the document and all he has it hic say-co abouc

3 comething he is not sharing with us.

! 4 I don' t think it's at c11 appropricte end ic

c' out as an unfair a line of questicining ar. I can i.:..wina5 c

6 to try tc push n uitnocc into c::procring onir.icnt er

7 rec' nions to sta tements that, ac far as the recorc in this

c .ra ic conccrned, etc pullcd ot t of the air. ''L m: e^

9 sufficient ancuer to c.rf the document ir. pu'liclyc

1C cvailabic. I can hcar ::r. Dri%er's rccporce if I ;c. ' c

11 line of cucationing such as that with any Conrxnerc rc.trer

12 empi cy ee.

13 ::n. CnI2n: I' ll rely upon thi c u i'.c e t.r. c n:

14 hic councel t.c toll me uhc ther they ar 3 trillint tu . n u. r

15 this line of cuecticninc cr not.- .

1: "an; to che five .inutec c nC r .fi c; m.1:7

17 . , . . . . . -nv. .

., . . . .. . ... u .. .

,la (l. brief recccc * tac held J.u r i n<.

10 the proceedingc.)

^0 :'n. GCOLD: 7eforc the uitnocc cn: vers, I ' c.:

21 like to ctate also f or the record, just so Conceners Feuer

22 ic on notico, if the questien, 2nd I accume it has not.

23 been withdrawn, nor as this line of questioning continues

24 it's my pocition that any obj ection to cimilar apurnc;h,

-="n7Luzod Reporting Service 30980 %.rth u r'''t" II''1-lafayette Building

Suter MO 962.)176 Sutty 229

Detroit. \fickisan .38226 Farmington Ildh. Whisan k9018- _ - _ _

a

1 in the e::antinaticn of Conctr. era Pcuer witnesses has been

2 vaived end we will be free to follou the came cource in)

3 our c::aminaticn of uitnesces. I just unnt to 1c-t you ?:now

I 4 30 there's no future misunderstcnding on that score.

5 : T. , JEUTEU: I' d like to cav. fcr the recort.. . - , 4_.o ,2 u , u. . w , Ln . 1., _3 ..e r_..4 ,,in a.;h. . e. _ _ 4 .--

.J :.,,

e. s w.u . . . ..

. u . : . . _.u. -

7 approach to thcce eucatient. Tc the c::t ent they cell f er

. . n.. .i +.'n t., ,.r- i.n..- Evg- 4<. - .*n c n, r s.1 v4.. l .1C< n-:.,r, .Tr n -

....sci ;.. . ; . . . .. -.; s

o. 4 .1 m., 3 . * ..

.'..t....a. n. . , . . .n. . s.s , c .- .1.1 a ., r ' i .-r, - -

. uw - . . .s . . . . ...uow v ; ; 6 .-

1c r ~u ". . .4 c...'. 1 ^. ". v . . i =. .. .". u r ". r.~. . a. . - . .~. . .. ~e r r ' ": . . . .

a- ' ' ' - < -~

a. .

. . .~

11 n.ef be appropriate but we uich to 1cch ct ther en c ca sa

12 by case bccic.

1,., ...r . . n. . e n. I . . , . s .m . ..

1.' 1 Let ne change the f ocuc of my cuection ir.1 ire uit:. "cur.

13 last en::ement c nc. c h a cl igh tly c:i f f er s- r:. c.' u u '. i r.n c i |

13 t h c . i t r.:- :: e i:n r c c .'r. c tc thie r epn: L. .' r ;eu 2 .ili>r

- -

.. m uc1.,,.,e. o ,. n. .: . . , - -3. ,, .,.,4. t .,. ,.;b. . .,...r:r~ ,-.t..._.. s .. . u. s ,. . *. .

.. .

10 C. :'.i c t and Anaccistes, Inc?

10 7, ''e c , I've seen in genercl terrs.-

-

20 0 7.. ..e ndi:: ' . , "cnag2 ment Ana lv. ci s , C. 2. :'uuic:c .7 gul ncr"2

21 Connicsion progrcas f or escurance of quality and denicn

22 and conctruction of nuclear power plantc?,

23 A Yec..

24 0 Let me, in line uith your councol's cuggestion that ue

Lusod Reporting Senice 50C. lafayette Buildme M810 A.orthurstern fluy.SuttefdO 962*IIIO Suite 220(ktroit. \fich:ean 48226 Farmsneton.llills. .\fschiran 48018

.

-

1 focus on thingc that are lecc philosophical and nore

2 pointed toward your e::perience, ask you come questiono

3 focussed in on that part cf the report.

( 4 7. You' re now rderring to tho ;f.ict ?eport?

5 0 re c. Let me recd thic stattuent to you. Q ic io frca

5 pcgo i cf the :*ict repcrt. "T.lthough IC CTP ID beccn * ~

7' regulction in 1954, it wac not until 1967 tha: 7 ppe ni.i:: T:

3 cf 1C CFP 30, contcining the firct nantion of m %cli ty

P T.c c ur a nc a Drogr:r requircnuntc, uac rubl' W.' for conn?.".

10 In 107C that aprendi:. r of 10 C"" ? O definins crit:rrie el

11 Ct.ality 7.ccurance nregrcnc vac is tuad. Frcr 1070 tc 1C7 5

12 guidcnce docenents f or occabliching and i:..;1:.nuntin;.

.

13 Quality l'.ccurance progrena and TCC-imC f or acnur c.c.cc on

la c.uality wer e develeced cnd impicnent d..,

15 Cver the years, e:perienc- a n' sty _r:

'5 i n J.u . n r y : vent: cuch ac th: Trc"nc 7trr fic: x. t i .,

;,..1=. . 4 .3. .,. . ,. v. ,

7. / %, . 4 . . . .;. . . , . , ,

. . . . .. . , , _ . . - . . s .. . u - ..

-,

m. . - a r a. . _...1.

..,

!

l o; increcs0 t.ne cacety c:. plcatc unde r ccnc,tr uctica a nd i n.

10 o.etcticn. Inctabilitu in the rec.ulatcry nroce n ecu.M.

20 by inpositio,n of cdditicnal r2gulcticn. and gui:'cac: hoc

21 ccntributed to longer construction timec and incr esed

22 opportunities f or error s. "etter preventive action anC.

23 planning of progranc woulc minimice the inctmbility. " to

24 you. agr ee with that cr a ten en t. or dicagttc?

' g' -- n.

Lusod Reporting Service 30%0 \.orthutslern IIwy.Isfayette BuddingSuito MO 962.I17b Suue 220

lktrat. \fichise.n 48226 Farmington lidh. Sfwktgan 48018- - _ - _ _ - _ _ __.

. .

1 l'.n. GCCLD : "ef ore the witners an.?.rers, I

2 don' t vant to burden the record with long statenants but I

3 hcVe clready stated, I believe f airly, my obj ectica cf,

4 thic. I thinl* now the encrcico of pocing to the witness a'

5 paragraph taken in isolatien frcn uhat it : Icncthy

Drihcr ic e parently ret villing to2 document, th r. t ::r . ;

7 chsre with any of us, as I caid before, is an unfcir line.'

1 of r;ucctioning end improp:: in the cour:0 of c r:c ';o r i t i :..-

D tha t I, et least, in ny young ccrtct, h cv <. :vtr

1C e n co un t a r c-;..

11 I've Etc.ted t'j o b.diccticn. I truct you ill

12 3rnit ne a continuing ob ' acticn to any que:.ticn:, y ou po c

13 using this tactic, Fr. Triher.

C ., y .. , , ..m, ., i ,.3 ,.. . . . . .

...s ., ... . ..

*L'.*..** {'- |.T. w. a ' ' . T . } ~ ,q ts { .M. ,. G= r.,3. ..-v.oa

. < ~ ~ * *. ~;. . . . -..

17 dcorn't cy' car tc me thct th e ' itnecc i s in - c . '. t i c : 4

' ~

17 'au th e natur0 of hcu r ec ul .' :c ry ch c. .ge w ar "

j- ..

;

10 uculd not have f cailiari:y . i:h that; houever, he mmy

l? cnmer the quection if he f ecle that he hac env. corr.uo t e nc :

20 :c encuer the c*uestien.

21 A :' hat pa r t do 'cu want ne to cornent on, the antir: quote,

22 uhich uas fairl length' in nature to begin uith?

1~23 BY I:n. DnI:Cn:

24 0 night, but especially the concluGint line which n-id that,

Lusod Reporting Service 51CIAfayeur Building 30840.\.orthurstern fluy..%ar (30 962.Iii6 Suar 2:0lksmt. \fichigan th226 Farmington flills. Alichigan 48018

.

l' "Instability !.- the regulatory process, cau;ed bye

i

Imposition or accitional regulatiens ano. guic.anca, .as. . . . ,., n

3 contributed to lenger conctructica time and incrac ced

I 4 opportunitiec for errors. Detter preventive action and

5 planning of rrogrr.:ac vould aininine the instabili ty. "

6 7 ? ,c c i a , I don' t have thc t document in front cf r. ic I'll

17 mcVe I'm at .c dicadvantcgo here. The one part I {o

diccgree uith in the ctitanent that tha'; tcdo th e : c' -''

C r:gulaticnc crectc an f.ncrcr. cod oppcr~. Unity fer 'rrcra. I

10 think that it for frco the truth. Th e r r.gul a ti cn. t" t I

11 believe they' ro ref erring to in tcres of ''; ?c ndi : -- and~

12 7.ppe ndi:: van to do just the opposite cf that, c ;rovi''-"

uclity J.ncurcnce cpprocch tevarda building12 c cyctcoatic n

14 nucl ec t ,Jouer pl a n t e t c a c r.o r e th a t crrcr: do rm eccur.

s e .. .. .~ 1. l ) c , r c 4 . ~. . , ' - ' _. '". .. r .' ' ',x 3 i ..e . m,. . e.., ...o - s

-

_ . . -. . . .

IT r:ver:4.i

!I

1. * u',... s - ,. q a..5a

. .;_.. ..,. . . . e.,

-;. 1;,

10 '. 7c far c the 1::ccorition of ' ~. : n d i : ' and/cr /. a nt.i;..

15 on a lengthy or lengthering the ccnctruction acF'.Jul , :

20 would have the acne recponce, dicagroenent. Th' ':' enCi:.

21 A and 7.ppendi:' 3 cf f ord the utility uith ccnnon s c .' r e ,

22 guidance for conducting a design or' construction cf a.'1

23 nuclear scuor plant.

24 n Let ne ack you this question, page 25 of the docenent.

"i*,e. Luzod Reporting Service 30810 %.rthurstern liwy.Isfayr,te Budding

Suar MO 962.]176 Suite 220

1)etroit. \fichigan 48226 Farmington lidis, .\fichigan 49018- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

- - - c

1 This is a critique of the -..'nagement practiccc of the : nC.

2 and it's trnder the heading of Direction 3.3.5. "Clear and

3 constant direction has not cluays been provided to

(. 4 r gulatory perconnel in the industry."

5 I'2. ~"'.'S ~.. I uill cbject to thic cc Lcica.i

,' c u 4 .a ' + r " c ' i ". . "; k i . - " - " < '- .. .. ,; . r. ..,.. a.. . . .u , . ~. o .. .... ... .

7 anc.nr?

. . .- - ~ . , . . ~ c c ,. e . pe. m.

..a,.e ,..n.u. . . _ . ~ . . .s,. - . . o_. . . . ...

C 1 it r.:l eva nt to the procerdingc hort.

,_ . . . . . . ~ . . .

. C, - ,. .. , -..I..,.,.

11 "cu abcut thi question on resources, pa g e '' 7 . " T. > < ' t a t^.

12 roccurecc have not ':een pr ^v ide d to a cnt.ir .< c ual i ty ca-

13 design and constructicn c2 nuciccr Ecuer 91an:c"?

s....v.o. t. s.C ): L u .n. ; . t . . . . . -- 4*.1 * *-

, . l .. .. %.. .. . -~~.n-.. . w . . .. 4.....

13 O DV. c C.~ " C t ' n C O tC '. n CU t.10 enq?Or OC t i'. i C quCD;1CD.

l .' ' ' ' . . "."T.."".a'.. " O u ' r .- (". r -. . 4 . - '. i - v. . t- --.. - . . 4 .o- -

17 Auer?

,3 * , +~.n-... .: *

u . ~. .... 1' 16 . . -Au . . . v..m. . A . ,,4., ,1. ,,,

$ 1.1.' .vu. -

1 :* ob'ectionable. Il he f e .'s he has c ny cor.pe ce nc- tc

20 an.mter ruch c centcica, he r.6y do so.

9.1 _ , , . . , r. ,I . ,n ..t. .. ...s. .

22 O Do you have any knouledce?

t~ ~23 A I don' t think I need to ancuor that question.

24 n "cre you intervic'.*ed for all or cny part of thic.

Luzod Reporting Service 512lafayette Budds.n.s 309 0 A.orthuntern Huy.Suite 630 962.]]i6 Su,g, ;;oDetrat. \fichtsan 4C:n Famington Udb. .\ficniran 48018

.

1 report, the nist?

2 A Uhen you cay interviewed --

3 C The nict portion of this cubuiccion to Congrccc is a

.

colf-critical e:: amination of the linC cc it's obvioucly'..

5 baced upon interviewc of 1:nC rerccnnal. 'ir c you

5 intceviewed for it?

7 A !!o,'I ucc not.

.

0 ' Let ac recd you the fellowinc etc tc-nant 2rc- .r : - ??

9 declinc titL regicnol effictc cf the'"'Cr F 'c.i c. 2 . 5 . 7. . ", .

1C "One n2.ture of r'.c organica:icnol :tructure of r .gi cra

11 resultc in four invels cf cupervicien b-t'teren at innrector

12 and the regionni cdninistratcr, ubich c.*vid rerrit i .-

13 atternaticn of information." to you hcv? r,n erinicn as te

14 the accuracy cf that ctatc=ent?

15 A ro I?1

1. r. r u.a .e .

1 ., . ..2, ., ..v.

10 C Did you evur fina in your cin e:.grience vi;h rc:rict : :.

10 worP.ing in Regicn III thot there . tac c" ctt.nuaticn cf,

20 inf ormatica ' e:weeh you cnd a regicnal :.ir'.c cr?c

21 Mn. JE"S?.:: I'll obj ect to that ruecticn ac

22 gcon to the internc1 workings of the .'gency.

,"23 !!n. OnI*:En : Are you inctructing hin not to

24 cncier the quection?

513I Luzoa Reporting Service306 t0 A.orthuestem fluy.Isfayeur Buildus

Suar h30 962 )ii6 Suar 2:0.

Detroit. \fichigan 48:26 Farmdaton lHils. \fichiran 48018.,

m:i. .

I

1 1 I:n. J"USDP : If he fec1c he hat a ny chi:. i ty

2 to ancuer that quection, he may ancuer tne quecticn.

3 The witnosc has told me he does not

4 understand the question.

5 'A Zhen you use attcnua tica, elaborcte on U.L :.

- - .. ..., ,, , v. . . _ p ,s.... ...2 . . . .

7 C' t' ell , I hecitate to cicborcte on cocebody ulre's ucede.

7. .;; I unc.erctend thic report, "r. Cal 100her, ne '. r h .y ' c c*

u.h.i , . i i . . , ; O ,,....C - c c.. . u .'e l' m' . v i C h- 't'*...- -- .''"-i.e, w.. . , s , c; 1e-

. . . 2 .

i-. ;_. e *a

10 i ncrector lev el, uhicP yce ope ra tt '.'., c.u tim r :c. i c cc 1

11 director level were too long, there vere too .ar.y level:

12 of rev ie'. cr contuniccticn cnd : vender il you ha"c n

.

13 c--inien cc to uhother that cbcervcticn i; fcice cc t r 'c .- ?

14 "J. . GCCL D : Obj e cti o n,. "cu ".'v Cot :-.

12 icf.c a n av un f ur ti.er rcacvad c::O rci;c. i t' * c.i cP th e *. ;t. ..

i

. , .. 1'.. i.-.

v. . w- . .-s. v 1. u. ; ._- -

.: ,s. . . . - . . . . .. ,., 4 s ., L.. m a, a. ..i..

_.e. <. e . . ... . . .. . .s

;

,7 ..... . ,. ; s t u. a. , ,. : , . t r - 4..~ .- . .<. . .. . u. ~. . .4.

. - . . . . . .~ _ .. . . . . . . .. . . . . . .- .- .

.

1r docunant he's not villin t o ch o'. 2 i d. a r t'.. c v i t r, 2 :. cr.

12 the ocher party to the la.'cuit. I don't ces h c .' | 'u t ' -

20 either a 12ginitate or annu ar abl, que s:ica,

u. ,u. s - ,a. .. .n. .. . . ,

. m .. .. .. .

22 C Can you ancuer the quecticn?

(.~

23 A I had direct contact ' tith ::r. "eppler, the rccjionci.

24 director in ncc. ion III, cany, many tir.e c and h a c r.co e r c.c o i.

.

Luzad Reporting Service 514lafayette Rwiding 30840 %thuntern Huy.Swie MO 962 1176 S.ute 220Detrat, Michigan 48226 Farmington Hills, Michigan 18018

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

.

1 communicaticn.

2 O Ohay.

3 A Ce cane to no; I ucnt to hit.-.

I' 4 0 Open-door policy?

a t. . .o u .. .w ..- .

.

'5 e', u cre you in the cara building?

7 A That's' correct.

nhiy. I ' n .i u ?. : acking, tr"inc to finct cur ho' yee de ti t^ ^

. -

C. *iti. your regional cirectcr. You vere cbic tr .1h i: m

l '] ti11 hin uhrt you erneed to to11 hi: di r ectly , "ce si? ' :

11 have to go thrcush intermediate 11nec of ccar.unic::icn?

'

12 A That'a corrc-et..

Lot re direct y our attenticn to the ::idicnd C;-ction cf13 *

.

14 thic roscrt, 3.C.3, page 4 "The rcot caucec of ".7C

15 incbility to nrevent nrchicnc ac.d cicunote te i f a t i.C"1 a r. t. '1- - -

15 c. c t e.n the problenc cra, cne , irrccul:r ncnctes--.t

. _ . . . .,L. m .- w s . . %. l,. s .sek ,ren, u , . Lo , , , . G. - s . % -

, - ,, -

s 6u u u.. s .-.. !L *.,, - ...s ..4 ;- a. u s.

| 1r acticn, three, nind cct that i : is the 1.icanu e' ;

| 1C r nponsibility to pro :t.rly conctruct the[l:nt cnd i:,

1

1

20 uovlC not be licenccd until r:cdy fcr c;er tica c

cetermined by pre-orcretiencl end secr tup tectc. " "c youElt

-

i

|

| 22 agree or dicagrec with that ctatcment?:s'

23 : T. , GCCL D : Obj e cti on. Let the record

i 24 reflect that t'r. Driher has purported to dircc: thet

!

l,

1

1;-1 ;' Luzod Reportine Service 3(B10 \.orthurstern fluy.lafayette Buddbte

962.I176 Suar 2:0Suite MO

( Detroit, \fichigan #226 Farmington Hills. .\fichigan 48018-

, _ _ _ - _ . .

4

1 witnesc' attention to a cection of a docenent but has.

'

2 f ailed to show the witnesc the document en6 hac instead

3 read out loud what he reprocents to be a coction of tha

'4 document without any cente::t or any curtantiatien uhatever

0 thct even that he'; recGing conec f rca the d:aur.cnt.

5 : ''. . 7 TU C *T : '2 hic quattien ic e::ttmoly

7 broad in genorcl. I don' t hnou whether the uitnetc uculc

*>ich to crecul :c cn the quartien, but yoit n y ar.wcr.''.

O A I' d rcally rather not c.oc c ul a te on it.

, e., _ , . , ,p I . .,, ,... . . . .m _ . . .

11 C Couple of not 3 quectient and I :hink ue'll ac den ~, :~r .

12 Gallagher. ' lou' rc leaving the U3C and government r::vicc

13 2cr privato inductry, ::r : you not?

14 1. .or cther prefecsional rursuits.",

15 * ' hat !: urin:cc cre you scing in:c?

13 I. T.all esta:c.

17 ':.;ve ycu ucrh.:' :.r r e r.1 u c t . :n c' > r th~,;a : f.. . c :?'' -*

I.

_,q- ... . .s c .-

ac c part-tito avecc tion er vocc tian?If ^

20 T. I' m no: c ur e '.tha t i: your questicn..

21 C I wcnt to understand uhother you held two 4 an over the

22 pact few yearc.

.,'23 .; It's not a nctter of holcing two johc. I have rerconal

,

$ intereste in real octate and real cctete invectnent enc in2 .' i.

I-

Luzod Reporting Service 515lafayette Buddver 308+0 M.ethuntern fluy.Suite MO 962 11I6 Suite :miktrott, \fichigan 48:26 Fannington tidis, \fachigan 48018

_ _ - - - _ _ - - _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

.

1 real octate norhoting,,

2 C nave you har c bucine:s of your cun over the pact fw

3 years?

-,,e c ..

a u s

5 C Por hou icng?

5 7 Short of ebout tuo year s.

7 r Is it a' cole proprieterbnip?

--. ..O.- .

L . m. . a i ; 4 e..n u

1C .'. Inde::c ndent contecccor.

11 0 ! nean, are you partner r ,'ith conconc?

. .

3 n. . .o .. ..

13 0 Are you a brohn: or an o'..'nc e er en agcat? *-

14 7 Er.l o spe r con..

13 Por real ertate brcharage firn.?^

13 Tha '3 correct.'s

s.4 , . . ..-m - . . . ,

t . u -r s s..

'"10 ::2. CCCL T, Let te j uct Ote tc : th i r.h

10 cil, ac partiec to thic cuit, have been pretty cicrcne c c,

10 far cc the boundaries of relqvance, but I beliuv a ic's

21 c::cceded when you quettien an individucl about hi:

22 perconal financcc or bucines activitic: cutsift of the

v23 business involvecent he hcd, if any, with ::idland and clec

'ectimony i: tha; this i; an24 particularly wher: the c.

.

*17Luzod Reporting Service 30%0 M.rthuestern llwy.*

Lafayeae Buitaine962.]176 Sune 220

Su:te MO

[ Detroit. \fichigan 48226 farmungton fik \fichigan 48018,

. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - . ____

1 octivity tr --'s taken placc over the lact tuo yeart cince

2 hic direct involvement was ceased.

3 _. .r t .r. ,. . Ln. I ~., n, .ma .

4 C I acsunc it's no recrct you've boon in the rcel ettatt

3 bucinece, otherwice you uculdn' t have donc very well 12

5 nchody kne. abou: it?

7 A I uould agree uith the ob cetion. 1 cee abcolutely no

2 rcl..vanc> tc thi:, ty ;rrcent function, er the "i f i c .n C

.c -w i '. d c.s- '. 1 ". , V~ v '. . 4 c'. . .a. u' c ' .^. . . a' d H. . . .- 7 . .- r. -

.e . c i ' c "u' -

.. .. .

IC is abee durinc the lact three, fcur f-'es anC I ".'otl

in thia11 nrefer not to discucc it any further rcc.ardinc. --.

12 conte:: .' t .1 c a c t . -

.

13 0 rell, you n:de a let of very broad ct:tenents, :'r .

14 Ocllagher, in your tcctinony about your opinicn: e n t'.. i nc. ,

13 com about Cen:ener s. Ecue r :'cac rement , -bcut " o ch n l, i1

'

l' c:.e "idland ?l:nt, cbout h:t :P y -h aul . '?. t.v - dcn:, :'n

...-...,.-..i.... s.. . . - . . . . . _ , . ,, m _m..,..,.. . . c. _ . .,. u u. n_,

..

.r. . , u.,, m. .,

. . . . .., . . ~ . ..~y

10 :o unCerrtent. uhore you vere cenins frca. Il u> ucre i:'

l' ^ the courtrccm anc you tere unhing t.u ctatantnt about h a,.'

20 conebody chauld have handled 'a threb billion dallar

21 pr oj e ct , I think the j udge uculd let =c find out frca you

22 uhat you knou about investment, money rcanagement and cc on,

23 and letc of questicns I ached you thic morning vero

24 cirected to uhc: is yeur hnculedge.

'

|

Luzod Reportirsg Service 513lafayette Building 3n840 \.onhurstern llwy.Suar Mo 962.I1?6 Suue 2:a(kroit. \lichtsan 48:26 Farminuton flills. \lichigan 48018

.- - _.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

,

1 A I think I've given you /; background relative to the

2 I:idland Proj ect and the prcf essional e::pertise one need

3 in conducting increctionc cf the gootechnicci and,

4 c:ructurcl engineering acrects, and, r:011y, .ty rcrcenti'

5 activitiec beyond the .ign hour s of the dey that I

5 cenduct corvicoc f or tne "uclect tecul a t :ry Ccc .1;ci er 1r :

7 really none of yours or anybody else's bucinocc, unicus I

O ChCCOO to c0 C'i c Cl c c y it tC y ou.

.? :n : na ask you c couple of c; nest ions and cc.' if ,20 c. a'

1C bring thin to clocuro. ''he f act ycu' v: boon i . the

11 cornercial real ette te brekerage businecc f or tv. lunt

12 couple of yearc ic not 0 cecret, it it?

13 A ;'o in my cind. .

14 r. Uhnt hindc of prcperties heve you been icvelve; in the,

15 purchace anG cale ef ?.

15 Onen ngnin, I ton' t think it hac ..y r-:1 vnac_ t. e :1. i :'

,

j r o c : J.i ng i n c n'f , ' ' cy , ch a i.c cr Icr: -. a J ./ _ r a. . ' .17

10 endeavor: beyond the "ucib .r .".egula tcry Cc.uiccion cr r cl

10 no bucinecc to you, c: anybody clcc f cr thc: rc tr.r, :nd I

20 ..'c el d to de ci r c t o l e:v e i t c: 1.h a t . . .

21 F. Are you licenced a a real ctate broker?

22 A As a real octate agent.Y

e

23 0 In the District of Colu,bia?% '

3. 4.nc in .crylanc., , . .

o . ..

I

;1'Luzod Reporting Service 3m40 k.nhursiern fluy.

~ -

Lafyrtte Buildy,Suite A30 962.I176 suar 20kroit, Michigan 4826 Farmington flills, .\fichigan 48018

.

.

1 0 Ccn v.ou tell me for heu lone. you've "ren licenced?-

,

': 7. Cnce again, I don't think I really have to go into my

3 perconal enceavors, whether they be bucinecc oriented or

C 4 domcctic oriented or cny other. If you have any quectica

5 regarding the :'idic.nd Proj ect, I '.. c "l c be mcr; u h e n h r... , y

C tc cooperato.

7 0 Are you de.clining to tell uc how long you' vre hele a recl

ecte te licence?'^

A I Con' t think i t' c of any rt.icycnce to tl.i c yrcc:,. 'inc.

rut ey cuecticn is, c re you Cc clining t o c anter 'c. _10 ^>

11 qucuticn?

12 A 'I don' t thir.k I nocC to ancuor the q"ection. .

13 0 Co that you' rc not 2ncuerint the questien?

14 T, :'ve given you my rerponce, or c ny G. i ;c r ol : t c ? t o t P '.t .

Ccn you tell re f or "hcr you cro coinc te verh?15 *- s

.

1C ? I Ccn't think t;.ct hac :n'' hint to do "i 1 thic,

'7 .r.c ,di:~.. .

l '' Z.ra ycu declir.ing to cac.!ur th: cuccticr?'

IC 7- 2anc rec;onse.

20 n "ave you told the !T.C f cr uhcr you' ro goint tc corh?

21 7. .'o, I hcven' t.

<

22 O I don' t ucnt to tche up your time and your counacl' c time

<~

23 and the rect of our time by going through a seriet of

24 crocificc quectienc. Juct to put enic in focuc, I u ul .

'

Luzod Reporti,sg Service E20Lafyrtte Buildunt ' 30940 krthursten, Huy.Suite MO 962.I176 Suite MDetroit. Whigan 4R226 Farmington Hdis. Alichigan thala*

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ __

.

.

1 ash you a series of questions about the kindc of

2 commercial ventures you've been involved in over the pact

3 f eu years and I take it you' re declining to encuer those

( 4 cuesticns. I uould want to know who your cliente cre,

5 whet kinds of tranractions you've baun involvcd L', in c

? cenerrl u.y, and that hinC of thing. I' m ne t intecer,ted

7' in tho'emount of money you take or cnything of .that .n r. t u r e

3 but --,

.' 7- It hc nbsolutely no r ilavanc? to thic precerJire enc c c

10 recult voulo have no nee.1 to produce the t inf or: <.t ic a :'

11 thic point.

0 "hether you have a nced to or not ic sc=cthint ths*'s --12 -

.

13 7, It hoc absolutely no relevance to this proceedirc.

1.'. :'y quccticn caly to you is, 'o y c u de cli na ..to tam, a r th .*

1: quectica?.

1: I've ancucred ti.ct. ''

k......- .. ..

v.., ., .. . - , ,. . . . . , _ . . - .-_. . . . .. . ... . .

,

13 the record ic chsrp on ti.ic. I don't uant tc h vu c rg

15 quection later on that I did not ack tM r.:nocc ''...

20 quastion or he did not de cline to c a cu e r . "c't hind of

21 skirtincJ cround what I'm trying to get at. All I ucne ir

22 a simple statement for whctever reaconc ha fcel: he ,till'

23 not cncuer the question, becauce he f eels they' re

'14 irrelcvant or nn invasion of his privacy, cr.d all T uan:,

v1Luzod Reporting Service 3ag ,o 3,,,g,",,],~,, y,,,

962 1176 Sune 2:0Suite MODetroit. %chigan 482:6 Farmington Hilk, Michigan 48018

__ _ _ _ _ _

.

e#

1 to do is have.a statenent to that of fect on the record so

2 ve can novo of f of thic and close the depositlon..

3 :'n, J"USEn: nell, the cuccticns are

f 4 certainly very irrelevant to the natter cf his depecition.

O "ihe uitnccc hac e::precced hic intantion not to pur^.uc thic

: c ubj e c t :nd I' .i not going to coun nel hin tc ncu ".r.

7 t. ., * n. .- n.n t_ "..e.n .. . . - . ..

1 Car. v.cu tc11 ;c, Pr. Gallec.har,'uha, v.ou fir.ct n e. c c.c c in^

O thc cc acrcial rec.1 estctc bucincoa?

10 I thirk I' ve been aske d e nd enc'..'er e d tha: . 7 ".c cl l mc n i .'

11 related to my perconal endeavors I don' t think tha t's e ny

12 relevance to thic proceeding at cil.

13 "ou have. ancuored that questicn?^

14 7. I huve encuored in thc gentr:1 conte::t that a ny cua nic.n r

15 relative to ::.v. arrenci interdct: b ey e n d :.r. "a cl e .r

15 r ecul a t o r'' Con.c.i :ci e n, end ti.e :idland rrcj e ct.

^' ."..'s". r.t 4 . .". " . . . ~ . r c .~. . . n. . . ..,/ - t e u i c. . .' .' " ,- , ad. . . .

-- .s . .. ..-

1. unuer ctcnc anc ,.,. ave agreoc tc attend, g:ac any r 2cu tc W. . ,

: .

If a n cu a r e d.

00 "ith the undcr ctanding that I ucul; ur ge you t c a ncu ar ti..>^. ,

|

21 a.ucctienc I've askedr and certainl" not hv. u a v. of n. rv. i n c.a

22 into your perconnrel af f airs but cinply tryinc to get an

(x

23 understanding of your cran buciness bachground and

2 *- e::pe r ience , but evidently you choose not to do cc, I have

:>n. Luzod Reporting Service ~

30M0 %.rthuntern fluylAjayette BusldingSuite MO 962.I176 Suite 220Det&t, \fichigan 2226 Farmmaton fistis. \fichiu M018-

__ _____ ________ - _ - _ _ - _ _ _ _ - - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - - _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - - _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . - _ ___

.

.1 no f ur ther r_uontienc...

2 A 'Than : you.

3 I T. . GCCLD: I have come reCirect, juct a .~ .uc

, ,

i 4 r .< ct i cs.s.

t- .........<..(. . s , , . . , ,, L..-

*

=. o..

G n.m + .. aa.. . . . ...,

.7 0 I'i r n t , just to help vith recrect to the record on thie

.

2 a r t r. cone.'rning jeur :ortoncl activiti:";, c. :.v ' c r.y e l 7m r

- *^ '^ t i 's '- ~' m" 'e. r u- ' 1 _... .'. *. *. t' c ~. 4 ". i .i . b. .a. ~' m.."..* ' '. .i .~ c_.. v. . .. . -- .

4r c.u......_< c: _, c . ., v. ., e , r e. . . ^ e. . e. . e w" a . r'. - . - , " or :. . o -: ~ 1 - ~.- - - g . . . . . m.

11 Pr oi c ct ?

12 7. ..' c clutely not.'c

13 0 'fou mentiencd when you vere crort-r:m..ined by :'r. Pri:a r

1.; you cpoke te "r Gene Dollach and Ur. Jin "cen d2 .: -

1. .' e r , ba : -f ., f h. Lm. , 6 -34 ~.;t c. 2 1. .. o. . . e - 4 ,z . .. -,wt.1 u.c g 1 p. ?.' .n. r* :*

4,, ,t. t ~ .-

.

w w. % ,. - .

l'. = .' 1 .~. . .r t v. .'.t , c . .i r .i c, .~i . ' b. . - . . . '~.'.t.. *..~-. c~.;" T.' ", e. v. e* + r- s' n. . .-*

Lv . .. w, ..

. c.s .1 . w.s L. . . t _ .-.. O v. L., ,, n.- . . , _ _./ . 1 s. ...-..1 . .... .

la o . . n .. . . - -,01 , e o s;.: ,e t. .. ,

-4 ,m w-.. . . .,1 1. , u n,i . A ...,. ..... . . . . 3 ,r o

11 that c uection. I think that goet f ar afield e nd tone to

'

20 the internal '.:crhing: of the ""C.

21 ? '.' U.I' . GOCLD:

122 p Okay. Fr. Driher asked you a line of cuectican concerninc

.

k -23 the "accrf ord "uclear Plant, and as I understood it c

24 cr a c!:i nc. crobica in the mud mat for th: 7.u::il i a r v. zuil.'i:...,

l

.

(|,

|

-n.,

:.: aLuzod Reporting Service 30840 %.rthurstern fluy.Lafayette BuddingSuite 630 962.I176 Suae 220,

Detmit. .\fichigan 48226 Farminston tidls. \fichigan 48018.

- _ _ _ - _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ - - _ _

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

.

.

1 of that structure, f or that plant. Do you rcccll that

2 generally?

3 A It uc3n' t Opecifically with the mud mat, it ucc vich the

,

;ounc.ction tat,.

d For uhat c:ructure?'

3 .' I bolicve the lu::iliary L'uilding?

!.0 ?.nd he :1 o cc|:od you hou much constructicn hed been conc7

c: that buil.di ng uh :n the pr obl it um; det :cte J. :: :-''

1

.' believe your ancuar us: 20 'carccat. 'c v o u r c. c.c.11 th:

1C cenerally?

11 ?> Ca that crder.

I12 'O "hnt I' d li|:e to find out, if I can ici 20 percent of

I

i

13 | uhat? Can you bc : little ccr a ccccific? 7c.; 20 rcrat.nt,

i

14..of thc. civil constructica 60ne :: tha ti..o thct probicr

'

15 ':ca detac:od?.

- , . .. n. . ,, ,. 4 .r _. ; . . . ,. u . n .. 4 .,. . , i .. ,3. .. ..,.. e . . . , -.

. .. .. - . i ..r . . -n.- . , . . u.

-- -

o . ~ .

l^ "ha: uc: includ:C vi:hin th:: cc.w ::t al civil conc::vetici.12I

, , . i i. ,o C . . ... ..

20 7. The n ructurec.

21 0 Did that include inctallatien of c1cctrical cc;uirtent or,

J

t 22 I the other content's of the buildinc?|

23 A Ito, just the ctructural aspects of the buildinc?

; 24 r That's poured concrete ?:

,

. . Luzod Reporting Service 52d30940 A.orthurstern Huy.Isfayette Buildme

Suite Mo 962 ]]76 Suar 220'

Iktroit, \fithaan 48226 Farmington Hills \fichigan 48018_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ._

1 A Yech.

2 0 'Then the t:robica vac discovered did construction concinue?-

, , . . , ,a n --..

4 'Then vere remedici =cacurec begun , tith rcerect to the^

5 _ r obl e::.?

C !. Tc coon a: the probler var detectrc:.

7 0 ?.nd h ow long did it take to fi:: the problem?

'l ' nu;.ber of ncnthc.'

ind uca the prehicn. recolvcd, rc far cc yeu kne", :o : :' '?^ '

10 cnticfcction of thc "nC?

11 7.t that time, yes, I believo co.'

.

Do you hrou uhother an. 50.54 7 recuectc becana necc uary12 ^.

a

13 ir. conncction uith thct 3rcblan?.

14 ?. :!c.: at i.htt tino, no. ,.

15 20 you ':ncu yhc:hcr cay Order: todifying 'a.crf.r.'' ,'

15 canc:ructicn perni: 2rr incu::' in ecnr.': ccic' -i: : :

3. ~, ., , , . - t ._. n.,

s

IP | "c. do kncu there ucrcr.'t.~

10 - *: hat van involved, in ceneral terms, in - f i::i nc. ::'

en . ,. c y. . . .. .,. . ,.w

,

21 A Eacically drilling corings, or boringc, in the nnt, tne

22 concrete, and pumping it with an epo::y grout..-.

'

23 0 '!cu would you compare that remedial action uite. thc,,

24 undary! nning of the Au::ilic.ry ''uilding a t ths :'idl:nG|

'er~'-

Luzad Reporting Service 30840 .%.rthurstern Huy.Lafayette BuildingS war M O 962 1176 Suite 220

*

y Detroa \fichigan 482:6 Farmington Hdis. Alichigan 48018

...

1 Plant?.

2 A Thdre's really no coat.ucison.

, n .,.9- ~ 6;ng

4 7. :tuch locsor cignificance.'

; r. ::r. Driher ac;;cd vat - s e r i e r., o f c.: uc. c t i c a c c o n c t r n i r.g~

4

5 circunctcne:c undar .thich nonconfornnne: reror:0 't"rc.

7 submitted by Consumerc ?cuor to the l'uclear neguictor'1'

Coraiscion, cac cne e:uectico he ach'd yct. in c rticuln:^

"

., ~ . - - i. .. t b. . . . " e ". S. . . r.' .' c ' .c c.'. 9s." ..m'.<".s . . c. . '. c ~. . r_ . r. . . . c . .

2 . - . ,w.. ..

1^ rcyortc Conctner Fe'.te r had f il ed with the ""'' c'.fcr< auf

' agan your ucch at th: ::ic: land Project in rec. core t o ti.11 c

12 Liccol Gene r: tor r u.ildi ng. !!c 'didn' t c c:. you ';hy y''t

13 didn' t go bach and lech thrcugh .11 tr ^ "Cn ec rcr:c, a.C

1.* I' d lik: to find cut.' -

.,3.,., u e i . a. .,,. 4 s. o .,. c ui.. , o c t,- ..s ,- u. . . _3 .- .- .t. . . . < c. . - . . . ... s . .. r.. -- ..

- r. c.'. ' . . ' . .< , ,_

- . . c . , , c. i s.e . , .,- s

. . . .r . + < c. . . 1 r. . . 1 t- .i e.- ,

3. .:. .. . . - c

-. c. . . ;--. . ..

,.

4....,,.4.,.<u.,., ;,.... . ,. ,- . . . . . .. . . . .

- . . , . . ,. . . . , .-< . . . . .. .

.

13 sent :c tha IOC. .N ca rding what u2c avail 21.1 on cinc

'

1r didn't nak: cny differsnca to ut. "e cor- going tc 1c .

20 ht them ac a ac ter of ccurce a n c '..' e did..

21 n. "cre the nonconf ormance reports Consenerc Peuer filce: vid

22 the Imc purcuant to the TIT.C 105 Order limited to'

'

23 gootechnic 1 rctterc?.

2 .' t. ::o, they uere in totcl, all mattcrc.

-

Luzod Reporting Service = y)30910 A.orthurstern lluy.Lafayrtte Buddine

Suite Eto 962.]!I6 Sua, ggo,

Detroit, \fichigan 48226 Farmington Hdis. \fichizan +9018

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - .

1 c. Can you estimate apprc::ir.ately hc.: rany nonconfcrrance

.

2 reports had been filed by Constmers ?cuer with the IT.C -.,

3 purnuant to that ceder?

'I 4 A Probcbly on the order of thoucendc, but I htye no even

5 c.i r o n s n umb e r .

3 ''ou vore cico nched c seriec cf c;uestienc conc cr.ir. the^

circumstances under 'which the !mC ctaf f har acencc to7 -

? recorCc at cha ::idl and Proj ect, cc *.oll ac :'c: ci:: 1::cl-

I believe, rocc the "r.C :'cyc eny policy c: 'r ctic'_, ', c

10 your knowle(ge, uith respect to gettinc ic.velvc' in

11 cupervicien of conctructicn of c nuclecr ,c1 mt?

12 T. "cne cc cll.-

.

13 1 Coos the Imc undertche cuch activitier?

,. . ..one .a c..

.

If - Choce jcb ic it to cu7ervic; ccnctructicn c2 : nucic^

.

7. .- y_,.-,.a ,. - .

.. ,.. . .

:.e. :.n- cuna:. -Mc. n:2. ..

-.

|

1.1 ". In the c r : c. of thc s'idic.nd 21 ant uho uc r r- t?.c c ) ? i.

12 i cons unct c Pouer Cer .any.

0. 0 0 "ho has responcibility to con the pl:nt is buil: in r

21 licencable conditien, oc f ar as the :mC is concerned?

22 IA The licencec.

('23 7 And in the ccce of the !:idland Plant who uce that?

24 A Concu~. orc Powcr Ccrpany.

.

.

em yLusod Reporting Service ~~

3 NMO .\.orthuntern Hu).qayegg, ytgingS ,;g, 9 9 962 1i76 Suar 2:0Detroit, \fichigan 48226 Farmengton Hdis, .\fichstan 48018 '

_ . _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ __ ____ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

.

1 C You ucro ccPed gencrclly about the circumstanccc :nderi

2 which inspcctionc are undertaken. '?hin!;ing bacl; cver your

3 involvement with negion III ac an incrector, apprc::imately.

4 uhat percent of the constructicn cctivity at the plant:'

5 then under conscructicn in negion II7 was cetull'; c u'aj .: ct

5 :o increction by the t'nC?

7 A I don' t hc.vc an e::cet figure or even a rcugh estim te.

rrc'nbly en the crder of lec: than onc perert.^

n. . - . , , 4. .,. t. . . e.n.; . w . L. $'

10 I:' not the retronsibility of the "nC to vbrify each : id*

11 overy activity or caract of the plant. It' c th'

12 retrons'ibility of the licensee to ectablish : . r < -(ir . ;9 c. a d.

13 impl e.mun t it.

1." " i' hat cort of progrc cr. you rclerring te, ai r?

'. 5 . ?. r. ucl i c r Ac c ur ancc t. r ec. r cn.'

1: In thc c'ac cf the ':idland ruc1::r 21:n . uhc . ' Pc's^ '

17 r : .'.s.u.ibili cy ?

10 A Connuncr: rcuer Company.

10 0 Durint the tire you were' at nction III your tirl.c ucc

20 neactcr Inspector and I vendered ':hether tiin; wa: a citic

21 cr whe: hor it denoted any aron of speciali:atica fer your

22 responcibilities?,

23 A It was a title that all increctorc had regn.rdlecc of the

24 diccipline of e::nertice.

.

sM 'nLuzod Reporting Service 30940 \.orthurstern fluy.lafayette ikuldmeSuar MO 962 1II6 Suur 2:0Detroa, \fichigan 482:6 Farrnmeton Ihlis, \fichigan 48018

-_ ._.

''1 G Mr. Drihor ached you to identify the nuclear plantc in

2 Region III and two of the plancs you acnticned were Perry

3 a nd ': it=l e r . Out my notes indica t<< you didn' t recc.11 uho

4 the constructor wc and I' d like to hnou if -- other than

5 it ucc c Calif ornia firm. I' c like tc hncu vacther ic u_.;

.in., J~ m.. ...

7- a That' c cor:ect.

rou ucr circ c ohed about ''ech cl'" routntien tithin tb' ^

I 'nC. , Sid y ou cv.,r lea r n ' he th e r ' ech t.el '.m c di'c i c'. ' i :, _

1C one or nere of ficc c recensible f c r irdividerl necluc r

11 | p r oj ect s ?| .

<v .- .? e c ..t. - mm

12 0 "hich Dech tel cf fico ucs irvcived. in the "idl uiG ?' :rt.7.

1* ? The ?:nn Arher Offico.,

13 "n a t un c th te :' e ch t e l ?.nn A r ':c t office''. repu .c tic: ' ici.1.^

l' -' " 'C?

|' rsi'; h ? a. iI dea' t : avu t'. . :. : i..q.'T c. y .. .

I '

la 7 "hc.t v :.0 Concuiert Fever reputacicn uithin ths ':' C ?! |

; c |'10 JJ I uould reall'r rather not rpeculate on it. I uculc not-

1

20 cble te characterice uhat Concunctc' rcEutc tien u c..

21 P. You were acked cor.tc c uectient concerning the apprc::ir to

22 numbers of documentc at the ::idland cito you c::amined./'\

23 "ould it have been phycicclly poccible f or you te e:: caine 1,

24 all construction recordc ot the cire?.

.. \

.

5*nLs: sod Reporting Service --

30840 %.rthursterra Huy.lafayetu BuildestSuite MO 962 1176 Suite :20.

Dmat, Alichiesn 48:26 Farmmuton Hdis, \fichigan 48018- - _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

l

1 ' t, ' ould ,it have been phyrically inpossibic?

2 0 Uhether it would he.ve been phycieelly ressibic f or you to

3 do co.

4 T. I don't think co.

a t-. a c you depenc, on Concumerc cwer c.cr produc ico c:. L.- .,

e . .~

3 C ,cunent e to ''ou?,

7 A Yec. .

T nC ', tarn you c1ro dependent on tr.en tc recront' f r c ;-u r l'; :.? n

C yctr r<:qtc tc?

10 T, '!c c .

11 I'E . OE I:'.2T. : Obj e cti on, leading 'u.-*ticn..

3 ,, - . . . . . C Co,, ,v, ,u .u t . . < . .

13 1 rid you have anv. u v. to verify that thdy uct : 7 o d'' ci r c. c l.

11 the Cocumente you hat r cq uo ct e d?.

s t' . s.,a 4. .*U.

I I) I ''1111 G c0 2D3CCO ' C u ' .' D r N O '.' _ on th e T' :. . A' c i - ''1:r-

I. , 1' v .. .J e.

'

7 *s - ., v, st tc..p -,, .. s ,

..

; v.

1 m. "._$4 -u

1.9 r to you hncu uhat ecanany annuf actured the "3S'' 2 e:r th .:

20 for that plant?

21 A I think it uac Cenbustion :n?incering.,

22 0 Uacn' t it a nabcoch & *:ilco:: plant?

'

23 A I don' t think so. I may be nictc. hen. I thought it was.

.

! 24 C..

'Luzod Reporting Service 53Clafaynte Buildint 3Mta %rthurstern HuySuar MO 962 1176 Sustr 2:0 *

IMmt, \fichigan 482:6 Fannington Hills, .\fichigan 48018O _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

v

.

1 n Mac the St. Lucie Project built on fill?

2 7. It's built en cand, rioht on the Carrier reach in St.

3 Lucie, Plcrida.

4 0 7.ppro::imately hou dup is the cand ce the cito?-

5 I don' t recall the 2cuad;ticn desien...

n "1ve tharc been :ny coil sut lenant prchic.. -t tht "t.~

7 Lucie Project?I

2 l. :'ot tha: I' n cue r: nf.,

D ^ "h e. : is the curr~nt etctus of thc ''t. Luci: rre j e ct ?

10' T-. Oper-ting.

11 0 Uhen did you ucrk on the St. Lucie Troj ect cp ro;;irculy?

12 ,A ?robably in 1C7 5 :nd '7 5. .

,

13 9 At that tine cppro::itt.tely uhat screc.nt of cce;12ticn4

1.: '' c::icted f cr the St. Lucio ?roj ect?I

15 Uni: 1 vac under constrection ant' "nit 2 M. 2 . o t .t c. : t - .

,[ "cu far cleng c- U n i t. l?1"*

e a* * * - .t ,. . . f . . t 3 . . ..

. .. ,,. . w. . . w ., . . .. n

.

.

10 Do you knou hcu f ar clong the "idl:,nd Trejsc: uct : th .. :

| sano tino?''.

20 /, "o, I re ally don' t.

21 ro you knou uhen the St. Lucie Plant becan c;;crcticn?^

22 '. "ct offhand,

s. ~23 0 ''ou were also asked a series of c,ue:.ticas concerning uhen.

24 your ucrk began at the ::iCland ?lant in recponse to the

I

' * ~3-,

l,utod Reporting Service 30MO h.ithuntern U"Y-f.afayette lkidung962 I176 Suar 220.gwu 90

Detrat, \fichigan a:.y> Farmuncton Hsils. Whvan M18

.

Y

l rcrorr cf the Diocel Gancretor ruildinc problem and I'd

'

2 like te got you te lec': bach at r: pert 70-20 to coc if V;

2 can nail doun come of the dttt c. Let :ta direct your

.

4 at:entien to page tue of the de " nont. '. ' cu , 61 you iccrn'

I ti.at 0 ; n u:. a r t rcuar firrt r a ; c r e d t h e D i c t c 1 " c. n t r c *. o r

: "uildinc ^r oble: oct,lly to the PPC?

7 A I believe I recall so, yoc.

1 * "a r!.c: report. ncn cr. cc ebou- 7,ucuot " 1, i f 7 " c .:,

F

C in.'icr te d on rag - tto of r0 port 72-T.o?

c. .- _ . _ . . , ..

11 n Prior to that vou didn't have any i.rvolvement ui h tac

12 riuc1 Genere. tor ruildinc probl.im at the plant, fit v u?.

13 Ts I had never been to the "idland nite prior tc.

1/ O Di d y c " cl r o l e a r n t h a t c 1 C C "", 5 0 . 5 5 " r ': po r t ':ce 06

l! to tno "EC by :;lephonc on thic cubjcc: m ? ;t su : 7"h,.

_3 ,- 3 .- , e e.

,- . ... .i .

. Ohey. !atueen the 2.uguct 22 r:por; cat thu rap .:.: 70l' *

10 report diC you hrve nny involvenent with rc:;:ect to the:

22 Di;-col Generetcr "uilding probic.?

21 A I don' t holieve co.

22 0 7.nd dia you lccrn uhen c uritten 10 C"n 50.55 ': re ort un.

.*

23 cubnitted?

24 A reptenbar 22 cnd "cVember 7th,1971.,

.

Luted Reporting Service 5323n830 %.nhuntern fluy.isj.ayene Building

Suar MO 962 1ii6 Suur 220(Mnnt. \fichizan 48226 Farmmaton flills. Whisan +9018

- - - - _ _ _ _ - - - _ _ _ _ _

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _

,

.

1 G Cid your involvement 'onnence beforc or cftr.r the uritton;.

'

2 vercion of the report. ucc rubaitted?

3 A I'm rec 11y coing to have to 1cch at c previouc report to

4 thic. If you have it handy it' c 70-12..

5 0 . just uan: to tr, to nail tait dcun so t'.wrc i* c no

? arbiguity in the record.

7 A I think you hcd it thic corning. I'c r c ..

.

. ..,,r.. $<. .', n.. ..

C !. "' : 10 v .m f i e r t on- ci t:. v i ci t. I h el '. .n te, 4 :h "-s

.

10 Cctob?r 24th to the 27th.

11 O and you ucrc as::cd c curie; of cuatticn: hy "r. " r i 's r

12 concerning uoth you ?id in prepar:tica f r canin' ' o :!.e

'

13' citc, :nd did you do that ucrh ':ef oro .ycur Cctahc r ' 1:!'

la visit?

.: . r. .. ..

.. . . ,

13 'Jo u u c r c :.lro ac::ad : u r i a c 2 r u.. u i c :, r c o r r .- l . .^ '

.

i

|'

17 caus :c u '; a u .n : c & n i.- :.t:,u. ai ':7', ? u c:-*

,. .

.

1: :h:t lina cf quac'.icning?

I .n., ,. .n e_.

20 o Lid :ha ccurre ucrh interforu in cny v:y vi:n 'f et:

21 involvenent in the "illand ?roj ect?

3,. n ..o.,..

f

s- 23 n That was bef ore you had any involvccent?

24 7 That's corr cct.

'

~3'sm

Lusod Reportine Service M 0 %.'th u'"''n H" )Lafayette LtidingSuar @ ?62'IEI6 S"''' 220

.

p,ent. Afichigan 48:26 farmatton H'lls. W hitan 48018. _ _ _ __ - _ - _ _ _ - - - _ _ _ - _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ - _ - _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ ___

r-1

.

I

1 0 Do you recall hc<,r long it toch R. the uritten 10 crn

.?. 50.55 E report to reach you? !t

'3 A ?.c ccon ac it cane into the regional of fice it vac

4 tr:naf erred over to oc.

5 00 yce hop;:en to recall whethe. it cc.re in :,7 teil?'

1 7 I r--11'' Con':.,

7 Or by come factor rervicc?^.

^ '

7 Con' t h.n c" '.:ce i t cr.c ir.

"eving been thrceci th<:e Occe~ar:: cc in, ecc 7 " c .m *-^ ''. -

10 : .y ecr e :r uci ct a s tc unen your irvolver -,r. c n t ?. .,

11 I.idla nc: Proj ect with rec':a ct to the r o i l s ':r e b l e n t

12 conconced?

10 A It va Ocre tire in September and ectly Oc:cbec, cturlly

1 .'. uherc I ctartud pr9"ariar Jct :n. Cct b.r 2/ h inn acti:n,t.

1r whier is n.caccic.licci in 7^-12.

.i . . , . . . ~ . , . . . - , ., , , , , . r.,,,,,,.1,..,- -.

,.

,- - .. 4 ,. . s. L, ..3. . v.,

,

.. ... - . . . > . . . .

., . ,. . ' .

. . . . ~ .3. .e - . - - . , .49. w .. t w - . . . . . .. . .,

9. *.-*

.

. . . .. . . . . .. . ... ... .. s .- .s

. ,..

1? .ur ncrt and the ccquance of ever.tc icadin:. to . ctr u.

1r vicit and the felic*,-up verh. 7er. havint rc ruch2J ycur~

.

2 '; reccliection c: to the deto your involvement cc: nn . .!

21 change your to tineny as to the coquence of ever.t:?

. , , ..o..n ..

.

''23 0 or to the "subctance of activitiec you verc involvec. ini

S. *a 9.o.*. , . .

-,

lafNyetor ikddag l.uted Reporting Servier U ' ',:t

3tNO %.rthuntern fluy. '

Sww Mo 962 11?6 Swte 2:0 i

[ktms. \fuktan A C26 Farmaston lidh, \fdhien 480!d,

_ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ . _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ . . _ _ _ _ . _ _ . _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . _ _ _ _ . _

O

I '1 O Or to your com::unication with concerer: rcut. ether than

2 with recroct to Cateo durint this particular pricC,

3 f.uc.uct --

, , ..o .,

..

3 l.nG SeptercLac?'

s, , ..c., . .

You ucro cleo ached cuections concerning the 1977 ScrinD7 o

r 3 e . .,. n - 4 r . 3. n. ., ,, ,, r . . . - " u i. .'. .. .i . . : . . . u' '. . . o . .". t .- ' n i .' ' 4. ,-

. ~s . .... . . .

t..

.

, , , , . - . . . . . . , , ...u.._...c. .. . .. w e t ,.. ,. 4. c n o ,. . . -.. . .. --..n,,. . , . . s. i . .. .- -..

.- . . .

10 ce ne r:ll'. ?-

33 3 .r u .e .s.

'

12 O Diu an"iore frcn Con:uoerr. Ecuor ever cell to ".our .

13. sttentien the nc:.tien on the docunent th:: the hc: :.. :.

14 drcp un i n inchec?

,. . . . ... ...

.

-

6

17 "cu "ert r.l..c :. h:' :one cues:icn; cone eni:c, -

|' '

'.'un .~f' .". f i r t. ; cc: - inu .-;m'.17 un: t c:ccC i:, '

. ...

l '' Cculd you diruct your :::;nticn, riccce, r e- t'a cc:r ..

l '' d o cum e>n t , r:Scrt 7C-?.0, r.agoc tuo ant' t h r c ': . If you - ,ul ..

,

2C :%ir, thoce pages I'u lihe to r e.' r ath ''o ur r e ccl1 <.cti';n,

21 that th e ."S .'." '..'a c i n e::i st e nce -- if they raf rtch your

22 recollection to any e:: tent uhun the .'St". was in e::iste nce.

,"23 A ':' hey do help me rect.ll, as in the firct pa r a g r e.ph , one of

24 the reasonn for the investiga:icn ucs to dc:urnine uhe tc.c c

53 5Luzad Reporting Service 3cnto k.nhurstern fluylafayette Busldsas '

962 11I6 Sustr 2:0Suar MOFannsneton Hslis. Afdisan 2018Deust \faltan M .% .

. - - . . - . . . - - - - - -_ - --. - _ . . . _ _ _ _ _ - - .

7._ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

!

I cr not the FCid'. statcmonts uere conciatent with Cecic n and.

2 conctruction of the plant. ".' hat being the cc ca , it muc:

hah and I reccll it was in c::ictenec.

4 0 '*ou ucrc t.lco cched ccme quectient en uhecher you over..

:.gecilically recuatted what ::r. " riha r c:.11 n h i::: t r i ccl ,

boring lo c, such ec the D:' 27 0 c .d *00. I? c. boris'; Icc'

7 indierecd a problem dith the fill, die. Cont umer c Sci.'er

h.cVe e duty to bring that tc your actuatien?0

q . m... r . r .~. ,. .,. u 03 r_ c : n,r3, 3. , ..4,c.- -

. . _ .. , . sA

lc ? "ell, in r ecordancc .'ich the FTC ruculu.ics , i: 2: r: .

'

11 "ny inf ormatien thct uculd 1 cad one te balieve th u :;.ar.

12 1 .ic: a cie.nifica. r. ccnctructicn r. robler thev uculc r-.

I

13 obliged to bring that to our at:cntica..

43. .. ,, s% , , , .. , , . . . . .

. . . ... v.

, , . , . , is. .....,i. .. . r. .3 _- ~..,.i ., ..i. . ....,, .,34,, ,. .-. a... m.~ .. . . . . .. .. .

_ . . . .- . . . . . . .

l' :c 2:tre.; cut uuch irf orn ticn, u: c it? I.

I . .t . . . .. . r.. .. n ., s.

.. -e<~.s .. ., ....t .

g.

.2- I

.,,,.,,3..4.. -|1 ; . i. . i,1.... 4. *w . . .;3. . i . . . .-..e,... ; . .. ..... v...c. .. ...

1 .' quCStiCn. n

|!

- ,. .. .. , w, y , .,. |, .

. . . ..

21 C Ohat there ucc an af firmative duty, ac f .r as you kne.', en,

22 Concumert Feuer to diccleca cuch inf ormation to f ou?s

23 | T. . ::P IE"P. : Obj ecti on.

2; 2. Chac vac the ucy ve hcd couched cur ccc .c u.d ;ur,ccc of it

.

r+-Luzod Reporting Servier au

.PMO %.rthenern flux.lafeyene ikddas.%ur d) 962 1176 S.,ur $)Iktroa, \fichigan 22;'s Termmaton Hair \tackisan nota

->

. .

J

1 our increctienc.

2 T Y I :.". . CCOLD:

3 C ''ou were alro cched cene .:uettienc concerninc uhother the.

. /. failuro of conteraer :'cuor to J.iccioce the Adr.ini tre tic::

5 ruilding cituaticn to you cooner conctituted centici

.. , , t c. . . >'4c-. - a . . . ,~6 u .. .. Il t . ,4 ..-,.4<..., n.: 23,.

... e - e=v . L . s ., * 4 . . . s. bo gvv . 4.. * ..-.

7 c ue s t i e n b'.' 'r . Paldina at the ::nC in 10C2? L e t '' cd

, r - -4' r .*.<- M.'. r.- c.- " *. i *. . .

. . . - < , .-_ : . s.

e e. . u. ,, ; 4 r v .. , s,. . . . . _ .....C. t

..,

. . . . --.. . ., . . . .

lt "9'O the 0;eCutive CircCtOr C2 CTarctiCUL.

f.nd i: therc a ::r. :'c.16.i nc ca Icyod by the :T.C711 e

12 7 Thct's a Chairman Mdino, who 10 the Chair:na c2 th;

13 Ccr.niccion.

l ', rid you av :r 1..stn thoce tuo centi r.un rnd ravic'.*c: -1.''

1E cu-::i ca in 1 C ':?. of uh t' or tae Cc a c t': er !cuer 2:!'. u : --

,, . . - 4 .4,.. . 4. C w. . . . . m. . . , 4 . 4 4. , r 4 . .s - L. i .3. .. 4 . . . _ . u, . . ..u 4. - .

2.. . . . . a .. . .....

.- .. ;e ,~1.....-u.e. .. .. . c r . .: A .e.eA. . .. .... . . _. - . o . c . . .s

. .. . ,w

|.

-"**c. . h .

w..s-

..'.T... v ~.. s ."_.t. ? . %. 4. n 4. w'..,.r. Ls ._ .1' w a 1' 6 . . . ,, .- '-3 a

. w ....

. 4 ...

li no th e.v ravicued thic c.uection 10 nrot or, iu: 12 chere' .t

20 0.;iniens on this questicn I don' t thinh *i.cn is c c r c. o r

21 que:tien. I alto don' t knou whether thi vinnece voulc ba

22 in any pccition to kncu the activitiec of Chc.irran

.

23 P:1dino.,3 ., - . . . . ,

G s o". .ems.... .. .

' 37Luted Reportine Service'

3fMO %"hw'm '">Lafaytte kWey,, m 962 1)76 %te 2:0N'*'' "#" "O # "

- - _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

,__ - - - - - - - - - - - - - _ _ . - - _ - - - - _ _ - - - - - - - - . - --. - - - . - - - - - _ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

4

1 C I'll be happy to ctcto that tuo documento uorc prcduced

0 . f ren 1:r. Gallagher's filac that were c::chcnced betweenl

3 i:ec;rs. Paldiro and Dirch: on this very subj ect and ucre.

4 provided to us.-

- .., v. . t , ,

. . . . . ... .

I

C 0 7a n t ' c right.

7 7. - I have reclly not bien ctaying abreact cf the rituaticn in

IT^O en the actc ri ci f alco ctatme.:t c,uatic, m rtall-;^

cn act f e r.il ie r ui:h uh. t de t e rr inc.t i c a t!. .y ' v . , ' '< .

' ey end nv. c c c .w c r i n :.' r c- t :: toir 9. irt. .,1c It's rcally :-.

11 0 *'ou ucre airo :P.ed ccne e uectienc cencerninc; your.

12 inv olvnen t , 12 an/, * ith retract to rnC :chedulce,

13 =cariderction of pl:nt cenricricn echcGuler, cro you

.

14 i ndi ce t:: d, 3: I r:c:11 i.9 th:.: rt?:rd, th".t..reu "r "i;.u

l' i n,:u t to th: :'i dl .: n d ." r cj c ct. mana ge r f c r th < "Z''. *1 e ' a t,

13 :.h : ,;::cn?.

2 . . , . w._ ..

.. .. . .

^ ' |10 . 'h a t input did you cive hi.T ?

.

1^ ? "ith regard te --

Cen;1:tica deres f er the I:idirnd :'uclear rl:nt.20 o

.

21 A Ucll, ac I centioned ocr11er, it wac ny c71nien that

22 whether cr not the plant uculd bo :ven fi::c-d vac : ::.r i c t:

C* 23 doubt in ny mind, re unc aucrc of that.

2 .' r ::cu about vith recrec: to any poccitle cert:lcticn dc tc c,,

t

!,

Lused Reporting Sert ner 53130%0 \.wthunarm Huy. |lafayette Baldag

kite h30 9b2 1II6 har 2x r

1%s. \lickwu 4C.'% Famnton Ihlh. Afdieu 48018_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

1 asserinc the plant vero, in f act uere ultivately fi;:ed?. .

2 A I uco cf the opinien that at one point i n t itc.e they hed c'

3 rocember 103.' dr.te ac completion, that it uculd be c [t

'4 re=cto pocsibility of completing it by thct poin: in tire.

,

)

L ',. ' s t ry t c c e t c fi:: en the point in ita ct .thich you5 o

held tha: via . ' tr. : th c.: uhil: you ucr: ceill u1:1. recian'

7 III?

O : 2.: uhat tin.< ?

:- n Ch r. : y o u h c d t h e v i "..' b e t a ".c c r b t r 1 P ' ccr41 :icn c.:

10 ucc renett.

11 r.oth uith negion III and bcch it, he:dquar:cre.*+

12 0 2,nd you left Region III in canuary 11'017

13 ?. Tha:'s correct..

"cu f ernc? tnat vieu hv. :: it .::14 Co v.e*> h:2 the vicu^r i .

IT Janu:ry cf 10C17

,--- . . . ..

. . .

t. . .

-....s._.,a.-,... .L,.,.,. . - , u,.,...... . . , . . . . . . ,. , c. v-.

. ,, ... . . . . . . . . .. .

,.u .. . . . .

-,

.

13 L.,aC roroc:c: Panol. Obvioucly you' re no a .>..bc; c:

3. r. e. .,. ,. w, . . , 3 .>. . tP

{

- en .,n. i,.

- . ..

.

21 C Are ycu privy to its delibor:tienc?

22 T$ "ot really.

s'23 2 Are you feniliar with the ucrhingc of the Cacc Locd !

.

24 ?c t ec: :: ?.nc1 uith rec..rd to rnv. ':cl icy or "trtctic 2:. .

.

|r~n"'' ;Lusod Reporting Service M w %.thmtern llwy.lafayette kidas

962 1176 Suar 2:0SEur MO ' l'arn'rtton IMs,\fkkwas 4 M 8.

EMrat. \lkkigen 48:26 ,_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - - - _

_ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ - _ _ ._ ____________________-_-_ _ ___- . _ _ _ _ _ . . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .

.

.

I

1 i the panel to accry* utility c:.titates of complcticn detec7

2 A' "o , I'm raally not..

3 0 to you have any knowledge cc to the weight the Cccc Lood' '

4 Forecast Panel givec to reprecontaticns by utilitiet.

!3 concerning co: p'. stien da t.a c?d

!

5 7. "o, I' n not. (iI

7 0 The 'vicu you j uct deccribed nich recreet to the likeli' ace 6 !'

o$ Ccnctner s Pouer neeting the r,:ce bar 12? ' cc: 1.l c r. i c n?

? dcta, unc t'..c t v ie,7 c c ce ? c n t h e u c r P. y e u d i , e c c . " .". C

'

10 cnplcyoe concernt.f with the ploat?

11 7. That, cnd I think collectively c11 ef ny *a:u ::. r r i; nce !

12 cnd decic.n :nd ccnctruction cf nuclear s. tar .il n:.-.,

12 C Cid you devolep that vicu b2ced on ucrh that U : u i t.h i n ;

l '- , the ccepc of yccc mpleyncnt by thw :'r.C 7.

.

15 ? ..nd b:"cad, ':ncuing uh:t i: tchoc tc :ccer71it'. c r--i- [*

,. .,i._. .....o.

.

'

.- a '

- . . . i . c u* . . , . ,c .,. . . s '......,:-- -.=a-. . - -i.*,* r- . . , , . . . . . . . . - f. ...._ _ .-. . _

.

!,, . ,,c e ... .. _

,

i

10 0 '?ou ucre ackod 3 scriec 02 c:ecctienc conenrr.iry wht t.x: !

20 tho :'.tc icceed any directicn to crop the evac" I c1 '.h- [T

'

21 surcharto ct the Diccel Generctor Ouildin9 "as ther 3r.y

22 reccon f or the "nc to even concider such a cubj ect?,

1

-",

23 I:n. CnI!: Cat !!cu can this witness pocribly |'.

t.

7. .: ansucr that c'untticn. |!

.

I

I'

Luzod Reporting Sernier 5|C8

3nRIO %.rthurstern fluy.'lafayette lkidat

% :o M O 962.]176 Saar :mEktet. \fakitan 482.% forwuncion fisils \fwkiten 48058 \.

'. _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

*

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . ____

1 7, of etcyping rencycl? |t

2 ::R. D2I:Tn : Ucu un he answer a c;ucacicn if !

3 there unc any raccon f or the t.gency to do conethins? It i'

1 he cuarc of oli the deliberative --

3 7. I' t rcolly ncit fc.miliar with d.at. !t

e ..i... .. .. e. ,.m.o :ns ~

7 0 You' re faniliar with the Dr cenbe r 's, 197 9 ord.: 'tea e

,

'y".. ." * ' a* t* ". . o. .'.. . i ~. . ., ~. e .' 4. .-~. 4 .* " o " r '~' e. "c ^. d. . *. i .". .

- "-", . . ... .

.-..

.' h:t crder to 'rcit coilc rcnedial Ucrh, .:l t fer W r cil'

10 r'nc.6iel ucch?P

11 T. "he thruct of it u.tc to hcit it.

l *2 ro c. ''id Concener: ? '..' e r ' ', r c . ev cl c 2 t r. <> C i : c e l'

.

I

13 Generator 'ulldi.x cerchcrge without "C .prreve.1 -1 7 r.'j '

l .1.- r ole in thy deci:icn to i;cuc .'. at crd r?.

f

r u-l . . . _ r . c. 4, a. .3- .. . . , . ~ . , , , ,a . . . ~ - . .. s .. .. < _~; ...; .

.. ~-,.

- , c.,,.-,- m., ,3., .n . . , , m.. a. . v. . n ., e. ..c. .. . s. . . < .

. m .. .. .. . -. ;.. . .>

,,<.. . . .. . -

. . , . , ..i._,. . , . . . r a. , . 4 ,. . , _c. . .. .-. . . . . . . . . ._

. _ ., ._

.

C e. m e .oa.. m %. 'l t4. T . ,p%.41m ?'.**..6 ..

. .... ssi

. I

1 .*. **n.... n. v *ns n. e r * . 4 r, ,17- .. t . . . . . . .

.0 .c . . r nr. . . , c ,. .n.-. cm-. _

"1ie 'A'***$ - r* *4 e' o n ' *. *.' . i . . P. i ''.l P.'. . v' ." c "". . : . & . ;~ .. . -

.

22 proper. |.

'' 23 Ts I con't roccl1 if 1: played an inpor tant part in it.

* /. P.'.'".".. "w"C7 ''. . I. . o ,

,

.1' ' ' ' '

Lused Reporting Servier M. %.'tkunt'n' UuTlafapt:r ik.ddsy >

w go 962 1i?b kar ::0 !

__ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _W }f<Wu a:26f*" " '" Hdh' \f"hi'" * H" \

_

-

-

1 Q Did you believe that it ucc appropriate f c 'he ICC to.

2 issue t'le Deceabcr 5,197 9 order?

3 A Yes.

4 0 '?hy ?

5 I, 2cc:.uce there was a long-ctandir.c need tc tche caforcunent

3 acticn on cubj ect cod iccues that htd bcc " repor te r: r ';

7 conthc'ac.o, many nonths bef ore the order.,

9 ^ ri: the Deccaber 5,1E7 0 ordct have er?j impac: cr ti. .

licencability of th:2 plant?^,

10 L In terms of --

11 r. "ell, let ce break doun the quection in nartc. 7.m

12 Eccamber G,1"70 order directed Concenorr r$uct to hal:.

13 soil'c remedia. *:ork, did it nct?

1.'. T. I: .did but it a.11 cued fcr citcrr.ctive: to w c c uch :.

1." r " c. a t dc you tecn by that?

11 7 "".m c r d e r di d ' e r:- i t c .;d Co n c ua c r c di ::e r ci : -. P. c "- i t. '

17 of r,cqua c:ing a hea r i r.'i, aich 7 c i: _. :s r.c : ", .

.e

10 che rcaedial ucrh.

n '. . v, ..i. n In -.

2C 1. Or any other ucrk..

21 0 .'.nd the did the hearing call f or any recolutien of iscuec

22 uith respect to the coils rcr:edial uork? ~ .' h c t I'm trying j,

s ";23 to get at is, what in the sequence of eventc vith rcapect

24 to the potential licencing of the plant? Did the concerc

.

Luzod Reporting Service 542Lafayette Building 30810 .%, rthwstern Huy.Suite MO 962.I176 Suite 220

~

Detroit, Michigan .t8226 Farmington Hills, Michigan 18018

1 adcressed by the Deceuber 5,1979 order have to be.

2 recolved, to your knowledge, bef ore the plcnt co ul d be

3 licensed to operate?

? 7. Certainly they had to be resolved bef ore the plant was to

. . . .

D 00 11CenSet, yC5.

5 0 And that included rcccivinc all quecticn, conce rnir- c o il ..

/ remedial' t.'erk, did it not? .

'

T "h ;t ' s cor r ect.~

D '_'o u u c r e ached a Leriec cf c'uenticnn ccactrrinc ti.''

10 7.crinistraticn ".uilding and tae e::h i h i. t c I ha d r : v i .. . : '

11 with you, and !*r. Driher cshed you to go thrcuch the c:ach

1 ^. of e::hibits that I had gone chrcugh uith you previourl; 's-

*

13 icclato relevant do ct ment s . T' hen you recc. onde d te hi c.

14 cucuricn, did you go thrcush the e::hibitt .cga-hy-par _7

u,4 , a, i ., - ....o, i~

..m m._ .; e, ;.

.

|15 Let w chou you e docenent 'te uent cvar cr;/ ice:1. v^

. , . . -_.

,-, : - ,_ _ .,.l..,~_-,,,.y. . - . _ , _ t u. _ ., . . _.

1 _._ ..c.,m. . .m ... s - . . _ . .

1 .~. c. ten:icn to the dcce on this document, .;hi ch i n E c cc-i:c. :.

10 ,, and beced on your revieu cf the docencn uhat diu y:"*

20 underctand that c'c cum e nt to cummarinc? Let - e direct youri

21 attention to the first paragraph of to: .

22 T. It's a sunnary of a meeting that was conducted on revenber

v23 2nd,197 0 between Cochtel and Concuners Pcuer technical

,

24 peuple.

-

c.,

Luzad Reporting Service ''"30940 h.orthuntern fluy.lxfayette Building

Suite MO . 962 1176 Sude 220Detroit, .\fichigan 48226 Farmington flills, .\fichigan 48018

i A

,

1 O. Let me direct yout attentien to page tuo of this document,

2 to the statement in paragrcph si:, on that page, "r och tel

3 cays that, in come ccces, the wrong standards could be

4 f':llcwed and that this usc the pro'olen with the grade'

5 beam." I von't ask you to to through all th . questient

'

a nf. a n tv or s ' c ' ve been through previoucl'f cocur th" , '/ -

7 uct the inf ornation in this document also relevar.t to cour,

earli:r tcctireny cencerrir.g '?h~ther th N.- i r. i c r : #. c n^

. ruilding ci tuc tion ; ,.c w i t'. r e l t 2rcn v.eu?^

1C T ?c e,

11 C Chry "culd you 1coh at the attachnent to thic Cocur.ar.:,

l? 1.1 particulcr to page three of it.s.

13 1, ;'hich attachnent?

l' C ? age threc -- ict ce.lcoh r.: it fcr : cccon6, i ' r:7 J.

15 res, it' c gage thr:e, which coars the ".e'uc ny..ar|

13 E .' 5 0 7107 . "cs thi s e:.h ibi t, ir particular thn: r-in, c:

.

I

<: . h. ; : . ; , t .m , . . . _. . . . ,. n. ; . . .,_.r,ci. - . . . .. _ ., ;, ,, _.

. , , ... , ,-. u.- . - . . < .. . . . .

1 ^. relevent to your earlier tcaticony?

, .n 7 _. t, c .

20 r- 01.c y . r u r i nc_- the course of v. c ur uc c h c n t.n :'i dl 2. .

i

21 Proj ect you've deceribed hc 7 you had c::tencivc contacts

22 with I:r. I!or n. Did you become f amiliar uith hic

23 handw ri ting?

2/ ?. In general I believe I coulc. recognize hic handu ritinq,

i>

Luzod Reporting Service 3 > '.:30810 %.rthurstern lluy.1.afayette Buildine

Suite MO 962.I176 Suar 2:0Detrat, Alichigan,48226 Farmington flills, Alichigan 48018

-. -_

.

W

1 not being an e:: pert in hanoiriting analycis but -. !

2 0 Let me direct your attcntion to D::. 292. Is that. an "

3 c::ampl e, and that's a document ::r. Driher profided you?

i . .r -n _co.

S r and how about 1: CPC 530?

n .r...

.

- -u.

7 r '_'ou vere cico ac,:ed a line of ruectienc by I'r. Dri':c r

conce r ning your r e.c ation to ,~r. : cr a' .. ccr.c.ent t ''~nt c-^

. . . . ...,s_..q , c . - . . .. i .,. ;. l .,.1 ,

. . . . t ,. . . . . C r . . : .- .

-i . e.,

. ~ ..,

; ,. .. 24. -ab.:u. u...

ir a c h e c' i- ceri.?c of c ucctienc such ac hether c.-. cc;;c: ,.

11 did er did not A in relaticn to that infornaticn. First

l' let me ach "2ou thi.:: 'Mc therc any findinc cent ina? in-

.

12 report 73-:'.0 concc rning o .f ailur c ' , Con caer : rovar tcc

1. ' taho corrective acticn with rccrect tc coil: . r e b'. :r 2 7

. .-. . . , , .....

|4 .e., _,...-, ,P C v .,. , . .. . ,, .

- - .u; - . . C t. O n .u. A s C n .,.- .

.v......A6 . .

,u. . , ..

- . j - - .

. . , ,.. , L, , , . o, ..... u t. - u c .~, t._. . , . . . . . . . + . .- .. -u . ..m.._ .. . . . . . .. . . .

, :... 9 s, ..

a6 .i .t

1. 0 "as it part cf your thinking in r: .ching that cc r.cl u ci en ?^

0. 0 ..2.-

- a ..a. ,

21 * Did you ever learn here that Censumers Pcuer citned a

22 document formally agreeing that there had been a failur-

<' ~'23 to take "corrective actien"? Let me shcu ycu specifically

24 a document, which I'll ask the reporter to narh c c ?: ""C

...' ' ' 'Luzod Reporting Service .KBIO .%.rthurstern lluy..

Lafayette BuildingSuite m o 962 1II6 Suite 220

Detroit, .\fichigan 48226 Farmington flills. %chigan 48018

.

1 p-o

2 (Deposition 3::hibit : o. PT ECC G3,

3 i'ocument entitled "uclec t negulatory

- 4', Concissica Staf f/Concuaers Pcuer*

5 Conpar.y Cuality .ccurence stipulatica,

3 vac mathe6 for ident if ic . tion. ).

7 E Y !?.. C-CCL D :.

. "; o u r ' . .o. r ' .'. ~' y? ,_-:, e .. . . y u 1,. r; u p.1.". . " o.< n v.s ._ ..ui..n mn -uu.+ " ~

so v. . . . < . .o

C Cancc:er: 3cucr cign a docu. ment in th e '1".C liceNi c :

10 proceeding :.chnoul dgi:'c that "corrc-ctive acticn

11 regarding nonconf ernances reln:cd to plant fill vac

12 tr.rufficient or inadequa te cc evidenced by ryeat.:.6

13 deviatienc f ron c'gecificaticn recuirenents"?

1.,: . , e a.. _ ..

.. .:.- :. v. 1 .. . . o. . .n ., c'. 4 se'u ' c, . . . c. . tm. . . . . . i . .,. .'s,- .

.-. . . . - . . ..

. ... ._ , . . . . .- a...c

. . , . , .. . . . m. 2. t m. . . , .or 1, , -.- u. 1 ._ , ... . m--.. -

...., .-

1,, , ,-

_. :.wr.,s .r.y d rgute c .; : c -- 'm. c. .' > . . . t . : . . . t. . . ' ..n m _c c.

i

10 ?cuor Company rhat the document specha fcr i:Lall..

_ r. c '_, m. eCCa u,_ .- r

20 0 Ca n y o u a n t*e c t the cuasticn?

21 A 'le s , they did.

22 O 1.nd is P:: H:iC '3 that document?,

t

.' " ' '! 23 A 'les.

24 n Did vou ever neet I:r. :~ichael :'. iller ?|

|

||

||

t ...

Luzod Reporting bervice D '* *30610 A. hwestern fluy.isfayette Building ort

Suite Mo 962 1176 Suite 220.

Detroit, 3fichigan 48226 Farmingson Ilills, Stichigan al8

,

1 t. Yes.

2 0 Uho wac he?

'3 A :'e ucc the lead actorney for Isham, Lincoln and Eecle

4 representing Consumers in the licensinc hearing.

5 0 Does that apW ar te be his cignature on page tuc of t.his

0 Occument?

7 A I uculdn' t know hic cignature, but it sayc :~icha-:4 Miller

. n 4u .

C "ou u< rc cchef. c reric cf r;ucsticnr by 'r. ri::a r^

1C concc rning 'r.C .0::hibi t 6 2, ubicb oca c 'ccumenc I 'slic/;

11 'r. I:eppler ercpa red, I' m sorry, yec, this is maacrenfur

12 f or .:r. Thor.,bt'rg f rca I:r. ::cppl er , cad I believe you -

i

13 - previoucly tc ctified that pcr tienc of page eigh t cnC rire

14 vere th,o pc'rtions ycu verc r c :po n sibi c for, er t '" :. you

15 f.r af tc 0. 20 you remember that cener:lly?,

16 :cet ecven ind nicht.'

.

. . , . ,

2/. -, y .r. . r ,1, . e r ._ _ . . a, f n. c n ; cy. s :. .Jorry. o.cy . ._.

10 concerning other portiene cf th e C.o cum en t . And ;:/f

10 question fer you, cir, ic uhether you *ere ev er a sh r: -n

9. 0 cerment en any ccher pcr tions of the document?

21 ? I con' t r e ce ll i." we ..'e r e o r no t or if it uas ascembicd in

22 c.iecos and put together. j, , ,

"23 a You were also asked come questionc concerning tir.

24 :: oppler's courcec of inf ornaticn and I holieve ::r. S r i::c r

'".]Luzod Reporting Service 30610 A.orthun;*rn llwy.Lafuyeur Budding962 1176 Suite 220Suite MO

Fa&gon M, Migan M------ -. __

trat, %chyan M26-_ - _ _ _ _ _ - - - _ - - _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ - _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ - -___ _ _ - - _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ - _ _ . __

'

.

1 elicited the fact that c ccor fix to your -- I:r. Ecppler.

2 drew on a* number of cources f or his informaticn. To your

3 knouledge, uhat were I:r. "eppl er 's sour ce u of inf ormati cn

4 with respect to the soils probleen?

. . .

O n . u ac t.ne principle 00urce 0... . y .

In: or r/ a :1 c n .

- " I'r . Drihr ccked '.rou cone c.uec ticne cone rni rg uhrt t'.p r "ous

7 h'ad ac':e'd to cco documents reflecting prior coilt

,

. .4.c ..h.n ,,mu ,m_ r ,.a. , ,,,,,. ....a...4 _ . . . c, 4 -- t,. o,. .t v., _ e _4 e , n._ e-, .m. -- u. s .. m . . . . . .

m. s , - _ .._

:nt I Lelieve your te rtir.cny un ; tha t yce f.i d .r c t , m-" ; .

10 ccc-11 that generally?

11 A Yec.'

12 P Ca n v. eu c::'.t, lain uhv ?. .

13 ?. The purpose of my inspections anC.investigaticna cerc no

1.'. to icok back on uhat the Imc had donc in connection it?.

15 :'iflar.C buc to 1coh bech on v:;ir.t Concu..ierc x C for *1:~ l.,

i

.p_ , w. - r~ . . . , , ,.v. .a. , . . .. ,enrp.... mc e..c . . < . _ _ _ , ....,-

. 1 v i _...,.s. .i

, g , . o , . , e. _" tq , . _4 , . , . : ., 1' v- ...- n 4'.* * *

, ,,._.'..,...o. . .s .. . a. . . .. . . - . . .e ...

I

!iIr

|Chy. One or tuc rorc thincc, if you'11 2:r *?ich ac f or^

IC a noment. At the time sureberge *.'ac applicC in the ric.wl!

% Goncr:tcr :uildinc h e.t far along vac ccastruction ci that

21 building?I

,

22 A Diesel Generator Duilding?

| 23 G Tha t' c rich t, Diesel Generator Eui1Cing.

| 24 7 Abcut 25 percent or co.|

||

Luzod Reporting Service 5 ?: f>\ 30840 h.orthustern liwy.1 lafayette Building

Suito MO 962.I176 Suite 220(Mroit .\lichigan 48226 Farmington flills, Stichigun 48018

.

1 0 !!r . Driker drev out frcm you the fact thu' the curcharge

2 involved placing tonc of sand. 17herc wac that sa nd.

3 placed?

4 A In and around the Diecel Generator Builcing.

S 0 . .' h a t effect did the placcuent of that v aght of cana have

G ca the structure?

.

7 It f urther consolidated the material.'

.

2 Did it have cny ef f ect:. cn the intecri ty of nov ;;r ect ur c ?^

? T.. CRI:'.T.: C:;j ecticn to th e rec n ;; uni . .

10 c fcundaticn it lait as to thi; *itnccc' Enoulrecc.

11 " Y i :-'. . OCOLD:

12 O Let to rectate the cuccticn. E'o y o u kn ow ','ha ch e r th e

13 placement of that ennd had any ef f ect on cracking uichin

34 the structurd?

..2

. .,e c... _

15 -^ "hat effect dif it h ve?

17 '

It cr ..l i.: 1. ' a n: i n at .;t i furthcr crcchi.p.-

.

t

lE T. Did v,ou fort a n,v ';icu at thc time the surcharce vaa ;1 a cc t.-,

)'

1C at to'/hether that offect was lihely?,

20 A Ye s. I perconally c:::ectcd it to further cauce cr.c:. rg,

21 structural cracking.

22 -n !r . Driker asked you a series of questicns baced on a,-% ' /

23 document that he didn't cce fit to chare uith uc, cu I

24 renenber one reference in that document uac to an.

.

SA9Luzod Reporting Servuee3m40 ,\.orthurstern liwy.lxfayette Building

Suite fuo 962.I176 Suite 220'

Detroit, Michigan 48226 Farmington flills, Michigan 48018-

1 "inctcbility in the regulatcry procesc". t7ac there any

2 inctability in the regulatory prococs with respect to :ne

3 arecs in uhich you verc involved at the I:idlanC Proj ect?

4 I:R. J Z SF"ri: I think, as I point <2d out to

5 I'r . Drikcr, that quecticn is e::trenely vague c.nd

? creculative and not within the uitnecc' c on g e t '. r.c s' . T

7~ think if he 'ulches to spectlate on thic cucoticn, ha nay

*a n c'./ G r .

? T- "ith regarf. to wha: i n c t .; bili ty ?

, e.. --

. . . . c..z ci . , n. .r..1

11. r Let ne "ithdrcu the question.

12 A I don't underatcnd the questicn..

13 0 Chcy. "e' ve covered previously D:: C?C .520, thich i: the

14 .: arch 0,197 0 Ccacuncrc Dover discuccicn cd .T.C. ,

'

if I nv e c t i ge r i c." In:.p t c c i cn ."c c t c r o t ul t i n g f r c:-- th;

i

13 | invoc'-ic,c cica concer nin; the Dio..;l (' 'n e r: Lu '::.1 : i n .. .

i,

.... ,, 4 . ..,,3_,,.....i,, .

1 . ...-

..1 .. o .. u . . . . ;x m.. . ...m_ -.. 2 . - . . . -_. .~ >

10 icentifief '.r. Horn ac the princi;cl drcfter of thir.

10 document. Ic that correct?

20 2. Of thic entire response? !

21 0 That's righ t.

22 A I don' t think I ever identified anybody as the principal

',

23 author..

24 0 Duc the document una submitted to the M"C by Concenorc.

L4:od Reporting Sertice 55030910 .\.orthurstern llwy.lafayette Building

Suite MO 962.I176 Suite .'20f)etroit, \fichigan 48226 Farmington Ildh, .\fichigan 48018

.h

.

.

'l Pcuer?

2 A That's cor rect.

3 0 Did you ever learn who ucre the princircl draf terc of the

4 document?

5 A I ct any one pc r t specifically.

5 rid the docuaent centcin any repr e::cnt:. ti cnc '.'ici. rt: pe ct''

7 to the 1977 coils bocinca ::c. Drihcr c::anined you on, and

. s.r .7e. ..,t. n. . . :. n. , . , . . . ,._.,,4.. . r . c, . . . . ,.., . - . o ,

.

;...e ,.1, - c....w, . . _.. .. .

"w . . . c . . . .i 'a' '. ' '"s .= ". ', ]. m~ .3 b.. - . n&. .i c.'. i. . , : . u. '. 4 c " ' . r " n..' c . .

,'. . . u

10 Yac, it doet rcforence coil bcringc.'

"hat 6000 it indicate with recpect to the coil: bcrinC;?11 ''

12 T. 7.'at there Vere tuo of them tahen.,

13 n And did it cony cy enu informatica to rcu conc:rnirc e n-a.

1/ ::precontation to you recc.rCint what the runlity of th

1. r ~n .4 _, ,, ,e c.-

..m_

-^ - --

~ ' . . . "'..n - .1.1 ' ..> .- c.,,.'. ' c "cn C. 4 . c,,- - "a ' . ' . . , . -. , . w~. e . , - ,<g . ~. . , . . -

I.

i.,, ...=- -. , _. r c .,

1. ...,

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1

1G n one last cubj ect, rou verc asked cc:.e quecti n:. ;

11

l1

.

10 concerning whether you Scd tchen any follcu-t . icricr zitt.

20 respcct to your underrtcnding thct th . Co n c um e r c .r. e'.. c r ' r-

21 Pro'ect Engineer had net been cuare of the Adminictrarien

22 grade beam problen. And I wanted to knou just, if you'

tl

I

!s, 23 recall, whether, first, any ref erences were acdo in the'

r

|-1' 24 ' nC SEP rcports to problems uit!. Concemerc Feuer..

|

|

|

~:~ ~' 1'

| Luzod Reporting Service 30940 h.orthsmtern Huy.IAfGyftre Building1

962.I176 Suste 220| Suite MO

[ Detroit. '.fichigan 48226 Farmsngton Hills. .\fichigan 48018;

1- I:anacement's involvnent_ at the proj ect or lack thereof?

2 11 Cell, one of the characteristicc in the imC CALP report:

3 unc Consumer s' lack of attention t o actail , if I renu-'ber

/ correctly that phrase.

5 o I,n d di t you have such a vieu, that there was : 1e c:. of

ettcntion by Concunerc ?ouer tc cc tailc --

7 Un. DRInER: Obj ection, Icedinc' quenticn.

-...3.. ,, c n, . . , ,,, s. - . . . .

::' the construction of ,the 'iClend ?lant?O F

3n _r . e .-

t--, c.

11 0 Did the inf ornutien th t had been conveyof to you h'; th e

12 2r oj ect Oncincie r , that he had no been aucre cf thc

13 Adninirtraticn crado bean prchicn, 10y'any rels in th-,,

1 '. fornaticn of that v i c'.* ?

. &. c.1, .. u.. . ,a. , .<T- : . L, _. i6 : . C e. L. t. 2 .o. .j.- - -, .- .- GCn . . :11._ i ., -._ .;

. .., ..: - ... ,

1

1

_ U. .4...;. . 41 . - -4--

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. e. v . .,3. . 1 . ~ , r,., .1 ,, -

. . . w t c. w wu 4 ... .. ..

.... .,,, y4..:-_. ..i.. . -. , , . * _-. , ' . . . .. . : 3. g , _ . 1.1. . 7, ..*-

.

...v ~t . .,~ .. s... . . < . . . . ,

.

10 ucult charactcrine as a Cc;cil. i

19 U2. CCOL I' : Uc further quactionc.

20 Un. E'.I""P: : have r.cthing furtner. !.

21 (The depositica vac concluded

22 at 4 : 30 p. n. ), . ',

23.

o. /s.-,

t

-,

|

,

Luzod Reporting Service 552lafayette Building 3%I0 A,orthuestern lluy.Suite MO . 962 1176 Suar 220Detto t. \fichigan 48226 Farmincton Ihlls. .tlichigan 48018

. _ - _ __. _ - _ _ _ _

-. . . _ . - _ _ . , _ . - . _ . _ . __ .

.

--

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, . .

'

2 COATE OF MICIIIGTG ) ,

) SS3 COUUT" OF UAY:1C )~

i., 4 I, Glenn G. I' iller,'Dotary Public

' 5. wit}da stid- f or the County of I'cync, Ett.te of ::ichiscn, do

5- hereby cartify that the uitnecc whose attached depositica,

-7 wac tahen before me in' the above-entitled natter wac by ne

'O duly a7orn ct the af orementicned time cnd place; th t t h .-..

,

I- tettinony' given by caid vitaccc ras ctcnecrcphicelly-

IC recorded in rho precence of caiG witness and cftcruaric

11' transcribed by computer under my personcl cuparvisica,,

12 and that the said deposition ic n full, true and correct ;-

'

l~3 tranneri t of the'toctimonu c.iven b.e the uitnces. *

e a,

.'

14 I further certify that I an nct e c nne ct.:2'

..,

.

213 by blcod or tcrriace uith cny of the partiec or thcir

10 n.t t o r ney c , and the: I au not an empicyee of oither cf then, [i

1

. 47 ur fincdciallv- int: ec:M in t'c.c cction. I

i- .I-

!

! In II- "q ':S S U!IE.'.COI', I have horr.unto eat

L 19 my hand at the City of Detroit, Cc,unty of "c.yne, Stcte of i

20 :;ichigan, thic d V I dty of M IM*.,

V

21 <

L 22

| - (~ G L C::11 G . HILLER, 1:otary Public"

23 Uayne County, ::ichigan.

'

24 I:y Conciccion 2::pirec: 4-22-07

.

.S.'Luzod Reporting Service 30840 h.orthuntern Huy..

Lafayette Building962 1176 Suite 220 :Suite 630

kroit, Michigan 48226 Farmington Hills, Michigan 48018'

-__-___'_-______-____-__--____-__-_____________-______________________-____-__-________:____,_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __

*_ _

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1

2 3. n. ,IC,,,. .. C.n y ,v. , .a. ,,m. . _ .w t . . s-. ... _

3 I, Eugenc Gallagher, Oc here'yc

/. attest to the correctnesc of the trcns ript upon inclucion,

5 of the cer r ccicnn n r.//or ch angc o I ha'/u lic; "' cn t .~.

.. ;. .-.

;. r r e. . ..a 0. v ..c.. ,.-.....u-..

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3 2 0 C C r i b u f. : ".'' 2' .' O r n O .,0fGr" Ce

thiC [Cy c.?"",

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'9 '000ry 2031iC, COU.".ty *

.'1 Cor. li c ci on e: -i r c. c :'.

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! u:od Reporting Service 35'slafayette Builds.nt 3M40 .\.orthuestern fluy.Suite h30 962 1176 Suar 220Detrmt. \fichigan 48226 Farmington lidis, .\hchigan 18018