Ecumenism Frassati Debate - Oct 14

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ECUMENISM Joseph Moloney & Matthew Buckley

Transcript of Ecumenism Frassati Debate - Oct 14

ECUMENISMJoseph Moloney & Matthew Buckley

GO FORTH AND DIALOGUE?Indifferentists, going to one extreme, claim that it makes no difference what church one belongs to. Certain radical traditionalists, going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned. 

• Some may be saved by "baptism of blood" or “baptism of desire”.

• The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God. 

• However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.

DO I WANT TO CONVERT THE WHOLE WORLD TO CATHOLICISM? YES. YES. YES.

• All religions are NOT equal. I must be proudly Catholic and believe that the Catholic religion is better than others; the best – which is not imply that another person is bad or certain for Hell, but, rather that my religion is the one, true religion.

• And “YES” I do want to convert the whole world to Catholicism – I want the whole world to be saved and the Catholic faith is the surest “narrow path” by which a person can be saved.

• "Go forth and teach" has been transformed into "Go forth and dialogue” ie. “I just really think we need to understand each other’s perspective better”.

VATICAN II DECREE ON ECUMENISM:UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO

• “The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church - whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church - do indeed create many obstacles”.

FALSE ECUMENISM IS UNITY AT THE EXPENSE OF CATHOLICISM

• “False irenicism is motivated by a misconceived charity at the service of a meaningless unity. It places unity above truth. Having severed the essential link between charity and defense of the truth, irenicism is more concerned with reaching a unity with all men than with leading them to Christ and His eternal truth. It ignores the fact that real unity can be reached only in truth.”

• Pope Benedict XVI

A CHANGE OF POLICY?• We first need to recall the distinction between a reversal of official Church policy,

discipline or pastoral strategy, and a contradiction of doctrine. The former type of change has often taken place in the course of Church history, in response to changing circumstances. And in this practical, disciplinary respect, a comparison between MA and UR reveals an undeniable and very marked change of direction—indeed, practically a U-turn.

• Pius XI flatly forbade any Catholic participation in interchurch or inter-religious meetings and activities motivated by the desire for restoring Christian unity.

• Vatican II, on the other hand, authorizes and positively encourages Catholic participation in such activities (within certain limits). The modern Church has thus made a prudential judgment that the risks and dangers of indifferentism and confusion about the faith occasioned by such activities—perils strongly emphasized by Pius XI—are outweighed by the great good to be hoped for as the long-term result of ecumenism: gradual, better mutual understanding, leading to that unity which Christ willed for all who profess to be his disciples.

CAN WE PRAY TOGETHER?

• This being so, it is clear that the Apostolic See cannot on any terms take part in their assemblies, nor is it lawful for Catholics to support or to work for such enterprises; for if they do so, they will give countenance to a false Christianity, quite alien to the one Church of Christ.

Instructio de Motione Oecumenica (Instruction of the Ecumenical Movement, 1950)

• “In certain special circumstances, such as the prescribed prayers "for unity," and during ecumenical gatherings, it is allowable, indeed desirable that Catholics should join in prayer with their separated brethren. Such prayers in common are certainly an effective means of obtaining the grace of unity, and they are a true expression of the ties which still bind Catholics to their separated brethren.”

Unitatis Redintegratio, (Decree on Ecumenism, 1964)

OTHER RELIGIONS?

• “If it is true that the followers of other religions can receive divine grace, it is also certain that objectively speaking they are in a GRAVELY DEFICIENT situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness of the means of salvation.”

Dominus Iesus (On the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church, 2000)

THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH

Invincible Ignorance (God does not condemn those who are innocently ignorant of the truth about his offer of salvation)

The Church has both a body and a soul

the sacraments are the ordinary means through which Christ offers the grace necessary for salvation

those who knowingly and willingly reject him or his Church cannot be saved

Culpable Ignorance

Innocently reject Jesus? "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin" (John 15:22).

“God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery”

SSPX…what’s the deal?

VALID?• "We have no reason to doubt that the Old Catholic Orders are valid. The Apostolic Succession does not depend on obedience to the See of Peter but rather on the objective line of succession from Apostolic sources, the proper matter and form, and the proper intention ... likewise Old Catholic bishops are bishops in Apostolic Succession ...

• "When a Catholic sacred minister is unavailable and there is urgent spiritual necessity, Catholics may receive the Eucharist, penance, or anointing from sacred ministers of non-Catholic denomination whose holy orders are considered valid by the Catholic Church. This includes all Eastern Orthodox priests, as well as priests of the Old Catholic or Polish National Church."

Rights and Responsibilities, A Catholic's Guide to the New Code of Canon Law

• "A validly consecrated bishop can validly confer all orders from the minor orders to the episcopate inclusively ... For this reason the ordinations performed by the bishops of the Old Catholics are considered valid."

A Practical Commentary on the Code of Canon Law,

SSPX• VALID MASS: The Masses offered by priests of the society are valid. • POSSIBLY INVALID CONFESSION/MARRIAGE: Other Sacraments celebrated are considered valid, with the exception of Penance and Matrimony, which are, at best, doubtfully valid.

• SCHISM?: It is not clear that the society is in schism, and it is not properly called a “sect.” In recent years the Holy See has recognized the society’s expressed desire for regular communion with the Roman Pontiff and the Church he shepherds, and the Holy See’s dialogue with the society since 2009 demonstrates the Church’s commitment to unity.

• It is necessary to distinguish between the priests, brothers, and sisters of the society, on the one hand; and the lay faithful who attend Mass at society chapels, on the other hand. The former are clearly in an irregular status. In regard to the lay faithful who attend Mass at society chapels, there has never been a statement by the Holy See that these people are in schism. In fact, the Holy See acts toward them as it does toward all the Catholic lay faithful.

• VALID BUT ILLICIT: It’s also necessary to distinguish between acts that are invalid and those that are illicit. Acts are illicit when they go against the Church’s law. Still, acts that are canonically illicit may be valid, and, in the case of the society, the ministerial acts of their priests may be illicit and still be considered valid by the Church.

SACRAMENT OF PENANCE AT SSPX

• Concretely, this means that the Masses offered by the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are valid, but illicit, i.e., contrary to Canon Law.

• The Sacraments of Penance and Matrimony, however, require that the priest enjoys the faculties of the diocese or has proper delegation. Since that is not the case with these priests, these sacraments are invalid. It remains true, however, that, if the faithful are genuinely ignorant that the priests of the Society of St. Pius X do not have proper faculty to absolve, the Church supplies these faculties so that the sacrament is valid (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 144)

SIN TO GO TO SSPX MASSES?• “While it is true that participation in the Mass at chapels of the Society of St. Pius X does not of itself

constitute "formal adherence to the schism" (cf. Ecclesia Dei 5, c), such adherence can come about over a period of time as one slowly imbibes a schismatic mentality which separates itself from the teaching of the Supreme Pontiff and the entire Catholic Church.”

• “Catholics who frequent the chapels of the Society of St. Pius X do not incur any sin or canonical delict by doing so. However, we further refer you to what we have already stated in #4 above”

• Many bishops legitimately advise of the spiritual danger of flirting with those who flaunt legitimate ecclesiastical authority. Remember that all actions have consequences. Christ and the long tradition of the Church make it clear that obedience to the shepherds that have been placed in authority over us, when they are exercising their legitimate authority, is the path to paradise. Engendering a spirit of disobedience to them places souls on a perilous path.

POPE ST. PIUS X

• Obedience to the Magisterium of the Church and especially to Her visible leader, the Pope, is an essential criterion for faithfulness to God.  Pope St. Pius X emphasized this in a speech on May 10, 1909, when he said:

"Do not allow yourselves to be deceived by the cunning statements of those who persistently claim to wish to be with the Church, to love the Church, to fight so that people do not leave Her... But judge them by their works.  If they despise the shepherds of the Church and even the Pope, if they attempt all means of evading their authority in order to elude their directives and judgments..., then about which Church do these men mean to speak?   Certainly not about that established on the foundations of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone." (Eph. 2:20)